CNN Covers Brilliant Light Power’s SunCell (Video)

Thanks to those who have brought to our attention the following video in which CNN International covers Brilliant Light Power’s SunCell

The report states BLP’s claim that the SunCell is a “small machine that can create light so brilliant it is equal to 10,000 suns in a coffee cup — that’s 1 million Watts of power,” and that the company “can keep a coffee cup-size version of the sun burning continuously,” with photovoltaic cells converting that light into cheap electricity.

Randell Mills tells CNN that the SunCell can replace “every form of power: coal, gas, solar, wind, bio, geothermal; it can replace the utility grid.” He also states that the vast amounts of energy are released when hydrino state of the hydrogen atom is created as the electron goes closer to the proton — and that this is “the identity of dark matter that makes up most of the mass of the universe.”

Brilliant Light Power says it plans to field test the SunCell in 2017, with plans to go to market in 2018.

  • kenko1

    Just one more year until a product is available. See y’all in 2018!

    • US_Citizen71

      In Mills speak that could be a decade or more. He made it to almost the very same level with media coverage of his blacklight power system with the wet cells in 1999-2000. As far as I know we are still waiting for them to be commercially produced. When he closes the loop we will know he actually has something.

      • Yeah, this concerned me, as well. Didn’t Mills say that he had some kind of “lightbulb” go off in his head around the year 2013 when it came to the possibility of making this into a product? If the CNN report is correct, then Mills is lying…or he has some kind of serious mental problems that caused him to forget that he was pursuing commercialization since, at least, 2008. Now, you’re saying that he was trying for commercialization all the way back in 1999. I wonder what’s going on with him…

        • Job001

          Suggest reviewing the actual research history and different technologies timing explored until this latest type. The spectroscopic research is outstanding…and the use of multilayer solar cells very clever also. I find no supportable reason to accuse this scientist of lying or fraud.

          • I wasn’t talking about whether or not the tech works. Maybe he’s telling the truth about that. I dunno. I was talking about his claiming that he didn’t really think about commercialization until 2013. That ain’t true.

  • Anon2012_2014

    “10,000 suns in a coffee cup — that’s 1 million Watts of power”

    For how many picoseconds???

    • Dr. Mike

      Anon2012_2014,
      You are certainly correct that the question is how much energy is output, not the instantaneous power. However, if the energy produced can heat a black body radiator to 3000-3500K, the SunCell will output ~1MW continuously from just radiative heat. Verification of the temperature of the black body radiator is all that is needed to estimate the available output energy.
      Dr. Mike

      • Anon2012_2014

        Dr Mike,

        Agreed if it can heat and more or less maintain a black body radiator of sufficient mass more than a light bulb filament at 3000K, that filament is radiating energy unless it cools down in picoseconds. Heating up a mass takes energy and a heavier mass takes more energy, maybe a useful amount of energy. I’m waiting for a public demo with non-handpicked scientists to measure exactly that. It’s been three years. All I see is a company that is good a PR and has hired a law firm to help them sell more units. I don’t see an open demo. Did you ever go to a demo?

        • DrD

          Quite a positive treatment by CNN.
          However, Mills doesnt seem to have even started to think about sigma meaning it probably has a long way to go before it’s a marketable product.
          On the other hand, maybe Rossi is being too demanding with his 5 sigma target. Many of us work to 6 sigma but it’s not always essential, especially for such a new product in it’s infancy; unless it’s a safety issue.
          As for the COP, IF the suncell works at all, I think it could be infinite.
          As far as I can tell, it still relies on gravity to recycle the silver, meaning it only works when vertical and stationary.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Spin it.

          • tlp

            After warm up period, it stays on self sustain mode indefinitely, just controlled by how much hydrogen is injected. There is no arc current, no silver pumping, and of course no heating (but cooling).
            In that phase gravity is not needed anymore for silver circulation.
            It may be possible that the warm up period is done only once, in the factory. This way many subsystems could be eliminated from the delivered product.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It is a dynamic system and whilst it has “no moving parts” in is increadibly dynamic.

            The electrostatic pumps for two silver jets, the pumps and fan for the solar cooling system will need permanent power as will control systems for ramping up and down output power from the system. Additionally out of periods of self sustain, and when driving it harder the super capacitors will need to be managed and charged / pulse released. This will all use some energy – however, since the energy after start-up is a fraction of that generated in a closed loop, the COP is effectively infinite.

            A battery could store start-up power for off times.

          • tlp

            If you listen to those roadshow events, they are planing to run it in self sustain mode all the time, so electrostatic pumps are not needed after startup. COP is anyway huge, but that could mean that the machine could be much simpler, if it could be delivered already warmed up and running all the time. Extra power is just dumped, as the fuel is free and available everywhere.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Self sustain in this case means … er self sustain, that is to say, no external power source. There will be periods when there is active arc addition which would also definitely need the electrostatic pumps working. There maybe time when the dynamics of the system would allow no need for arcing.

            In ALL cases, the pumps for the solar power coolant and radiator fan will need to harvest some of the captured electricity – regardless of interpretation of presentations, this is a self-evident fact, if the ‘hydrino’ creation process etc. is working, it will produce prodigious light and heat and this will require the solar panels to be cooled otherwise they would fail quickly. The control systems to run the pumps and the fan rate will need power also.

            That the system internally, once started can be powered off a fraction of the generated power makes the system as a whole self sustaining.

            You could argue that with very clever steam turbine engineering, you could drive the cooling pump and fans from steam generated by the coolant, however, this is a LOT of engineering and an electric motor or two would be more trivial to digitally control.

          • tlp

            If you have watched roadshow videos, you would know that after warm up phase self sustain plasma stays indefinitely, no need for arc current nor electromagnetic pumping anymore.
            Of course cooling is needed all the time for PVs and a tiny amount (compared to output power) of electricity is needed there, and small amount of electricity for getting hydrogen from water (though in first protos hydrogen is from a bottle).

          • Bob Greenyer

            I simply do not know on what basis you can state that it will self sustain indefinitely – it is a really dynamic system for one, secondly, even at best they have only had the latest models running under 1 hour.

            Practically it does not matter from an external view point, but I would be extremely surprised that the core reaction which is so violent, dynamic and necessarily going to provide variable power output would yield a reaction that is consistently smooth and self sustained at the core.

            I have watched too many BLP presentations and more related information – in other videos you can hear the trigger frequency audibly change and Mills clearly states this is the firing frequency – this was with static electrodes, predictability will drop with fluid electrodes in a violently dynamic gas / plasma etc. environment.

          • tlp

            You should watch those latest two roadshow videos, older ones contain old information.
            Mills explained this self sustain mode very well there. Basically the output power can be kept constant all the time, the machine is operating in the sweet spot continuously.

          • Bob Greenyer

            @disqus_abypwM3Epd:disqus
            not sure why you are labouring the point, I said from the outset that the system as a whole would be closed loop and therefore self-sustain from an external viewpoint, therefore it matters little what is going on in the core after start-up.

            That being said, the parts I have identified in the cooling and control systems will need constant draw on the generated power – this does not imply that the electrical output would be less than the quoted 150kW. Indeed, I would think and expect the system would be significantly underrated to ensure guaranteed performance level.

            Regardless of what has been said or not said in any presentation or even internal memo, it is frankly disingenuous to claim a 24/7/365 self-sustain of the core (the molten silver / hydrogen reaction) with runs of only 30 mins (even 6 hours). The wonderful simplicity they have achieved will give them a good shot, but it is too early to claim. If they were certain, they would not have made such a thing of modular swappable replaceable parts in their presentation, they would have said something like “this is as reliable as a door stop, once in place, it keeps on doing its job”.

            Additionally, as I have identified and laid out in other comments, with a carbon sphere and arcing at intervals, there is a chance of Ohsawa reactions leading to Magnesium formation and potentially to the whole Ohsawa reaction chain products, this would change the system over time. Of course, this assumes Ohsawa and the many people that have replicated his work have not somehow fooled themselves. If however it does, BLP would simply have never have observed these products in the short periods they have operated their device for (at least WRT their public announcement).

          • radvar

            “it stays on self sustain mode indefinitely”.
            Hmm…
            Mills may have gotten it to “self-sustain” for a short while, however, my understanding is that the full device hasn’t run for more than 30 minutes continuously.. Raw engineering intuition says that “self-sustain” with those levels of energy would require some amazing dynamic balance, which just doesn’t happen by itself. I would expect to see some very significant engineering breakthroughs before “self-sustain” became a commercial reality.

          • tlp

            Self sustain plasma mode was demonstrated in that video from October, there was initially two minutes ignition off and then again on for some time, but after that it continues in off mode. It is controlled by the amount of hydrogen available.

          • radvar

            If you captured a piece of the sun in a pressure cooker, would you expect it to “self-sustain” without an very large amount of external regulation?

          • f sedei

            Rossi-Mills = a new science?

          • Stephen

            Im quite Intrigued by the possibility that these technologies really are using different mechanisms to generate energy and if both hydrinos or any other form of dense hydrogen exists as well as LENR in what ever form it takes.

            If so I can’t help wondering what kind if synergies between these technologies can arise. Could LENR make use of Hydrinos or any equivalent? Could LENR products on the other hand be useful for the Sun cell? Or could some other more subtle side effects such of these technologies such as the EM evironment enhance each other.

            If we add to this Holmlids technology which may in its self be different in detail. I think you may be right about new science. Certainly a new understanding about it.

            With this technology applied along with the possibilities raised by new capacitor technologies, super conductors, possibly “reaction-less” drive technologies, as well advances in well known technologies in nano plasmonics and condensed matter etc and even advanced in plasma containment and understanding the pinch from established big projects. Well the possibilities are stunning.

            It maybe new science but perhaps also a new scientific era.

          • enantiomer2000

            I suppose both could be legitimate. Mills OTOH thinks both LENR and EM-Drive are impossible. He does have a theorized “fifth force” which would allow an antigravity device. I would be delighted if either/both were commercialized. The sooner the better.

        • Dr. Mike

          I have not seen a demo, but like you would like to see a public demo. The time it takes the black body radiator to rise to a steady state temperature would be a measurement that most scientists would like to see. I have to agree with you that Brilliant Light Power has been strong on PR and weak on engineering. There are a number of engineering problems that will need to be solved (including perhaps some that have not yet been anticipated) before the SunCell becomes a commercial product. However, progress over the last couple of years has been encouraging.

    • Andrew Moore

      at 3,500 Kelvin per m2 surface area of the blackbody radiator. 10 MW per hour – thats 10,000 Sun’s though and the CPV are only rated to 2,000 suns so its likely the power will be turned down for the initial units

  • Anon2012_2014

    “10,000 suns in a coffee cup — that’s 1 million Watts of power”

    For how many picoseconds???

    • Dr. Mike

      Anon2012_2014,
      You are certainly correct that the question is how much energy is output, not the instantaneous power. However, if the energy produced can heat a black body radiator to 3000-3500K, the SunCell will output ~1MW continuously from just radiative heat. Verification of the temperature of the black body radiator is all that is needed to estimate the available output energy.
      Dr. Mike

      • Anon2012_2014

        Dr Mike,

        Agreed if it can heat and more or less maintain a black body radiator of sufficient mass more than a light bulb filament at 3000K, that filament is radiating energy unless it cools down in picoseconds. Heating up a mass takes energy and a heavier mass takes more energy, maybe a useful amount of energy. I’m waiting for a public demo with non-handpicked scientists to measure exactly that. It’s been three years. All I see is a company that is good a PR and has hired a law firm to help them sell more units. I don’t see an open demo. Did you ever go to a demo?

        • stacy glasgow

          I would think if it works for 30 minutes then just have one burning for every 30 minute period. They would need to deploy multiple units to compensate for re-charge/re-energize time (or whatever you call it). It looks simple enough to mass produce. If the units could be re-used in 2 hours then only 4 are needed to sustain a 24 hour period. If 1 will not heat the water add more devices. This thing seems feasible now with deployment strategies

          • optiongeek

            Mills has reported that the prototype can run indefinitely, but to date they have only run it for a few hours due to the need for manual operation. The next milestone is a unit that can operate with the vessel closed and will run without the need for manual control.

        • Dr. Mike

          I have not seen a demo, but like you would like to see a public demo. The time it takes the black body radiator to rise to a steady state temperature would be a measurement that most scientists would like to see. I have to agree with you that Brilliant Light Power has been strong on PR and weak on engineering. There are a number of engineering problems that will need to be solved (including perhaps some that have not yet been anticipated) before the SunCell becomes a commercial product. However, progress over the last couple of years has been encouraging.

    • Andrew Moore

      at 3,500 Kelvin per m2 surface area of the blackbody radiator. 10 MW per hour – thats 10,000 Sun’s though and the CPV are only rated to 2,000 suns so its likely the power will be turned down for the initial units

  • Veblin

    When CNN covers a story it automatically goes on many sites.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=“Could+this+be+an+energy+source+in+the+future%3F”

  • Veblin

    When CNN covers a story it automatically goes on many sites.
    Sites that use the embedded CNN player may not play video unless you turn off any ad blocker.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Could+this+be+an+energy+source+in+the+future%3F%22

  • hhiram

    As usual, lots of blabber from Mills about megawatts of power but no mention of either *continuous* power rating or COP. Major red flags for a scam. I hope it’s not, but I still have never seen Mills talk about COP. Until I do, I am much more skeptical of him than of Rossi.

    • Bob Greenyer

      COPs have been mentioned in the roadshow of say 550 and much more than 80. Since the system is electrically driven and the output is electricity, one would have thought that getting it closed loop would be fairly trivial.

      • hhiram

        Agreed.

        My scam alarms are still blaring because if this thing really had a COP of 80-550, then that is the ONLY thing BLP should be promoting. It should be the entire focus, with everything else being secondary. The first sentence of out Mills’ mouth should be, “we get over 80 times more energy out of the sun cell than we put into it, that’s why it’s revolutionary”. The rest is just blather. All the other claims about suns in a coffee cup and solving the mystery of dark matter are just a silly waste of time at best, and an open invitation to ridicule at worst.

        • Bob Greenyer

          agreed on the waste of time speak – perhaps they are trying to baffle people into submission?

  • New Year for clean new energy will surprise you. Decades of old fossil ‘gaslighting’ goes dark in a brilliant ‘cold fusion’ flash. http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2017/01/01/2017-the-end-of-the-beginning-energy-breakout/

    • Bob Greenyer

      Well, of course Mills would say this in not nuclear and I know you have a different opinion on the underlying reaction which will require a ‘catalyst’ change over time.

      I have a more technical problem for the Sun Cell to solve. AFAIK he has only had these new cells running for a little more than 30 mins (probably more now). The latest ‘grapefruit’ reactor is actually made from Graphite for good temperature based reasons. I think that over time, this will result in some of the graphite leaching into the molten silver. This, according to Ohsawa would lead to 24Mg production that may change the reaction specifics.

      There is also the chance that carbon (as a catalyst) might lead to 4 proton burn cycle as I noted here

      https://goo.gl/NnhZu7

      • Of course all but the inner sanctum of the Mills universe have no idea as to the duration of his Sun Cell operation, conflating demo’s with behind the scenes work doesn’t further anything but the ‘gaslighting’ of this important frontier science. Cold fusion nuclear by-product analysis is so well understood and inexpensive that within days of Mill’s tech leaving his hands a definitive nuclear trail, if one exists, will be clear.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Yes.

  • New Year for clean new energy will surprise you. Decades of old fossil ‘gaslighting’ goes dark in a brilliant ‘cold fusion’ flash. http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2017/01/01/2017-the-end-of-the-beginning-energy-breakout/

    • Bob Greenyer

      Well, of course Mills would say this in not nuclear and I know you have a different opinion on the underlying reaction which will require a ‘catalyst’ change over time.

      I have a more technical problem for the Sun Cell to solve. AFAIK he has only had these new cells running for a little more than 30 mins (probably more now). The latest ‘grapefruit’ reactor is actually made from Graphite for good temperature based reasons. I think that over time, this will result in some of the graphite leaching into the molten silver. This, according to Ohsawa would lead to 24Mg production that may change the reaction specifics.

      There is also the chance that carbon (as a catalyst) might lead to 4 proton burn cycle as I noted here

      https://goo.gl/NnhZu7

      If Nitrogen and Oxygen are produced as intermediaries via this proton burn, then there may be a whole host of elements formed over time and some may gum up the works.

      • Of course all but the inner sanctum of the Mills universe have no idea as to the duration of his Sun Cell operation, conflating demo’s with behind the scenes work doesn’t further anything but the ‘gaslighting’ of this important frontier science. Cold fusion nuclear by-product analysis is so well understood and inexpensive that within days of Mill’s tech leaving his hands a definitive nuclear trail, if one exists, will be clear.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Yes.

  • DrD

    Quite a positive treatment by CNN.
    However, Mills doesnt seem to have even started to think about sigma meaning it probably has a long way to go before it’s a marketable product.
    On the other hand, maybe Rossi is being too demanding with his 5 sigma target. Many of us work to 6 sigma but it’s not always essential, especially for such a new product in it’s infancy; unless it’s a safety issue.
    As for the COP, IF the suncell works at all, I think it could be infinite.
    As far as I can tell, it still relies on gravity to recycle the silver, meaning it only works when vertical and stationary.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Spin it.

      • tlp

        After warm up period, it stays on self sustain mode indefinitely, just controlled by how much hydrogen is injected. There is no arc current, no silver pumping, and of course no heating (but cooling).
        In that phase gravity is not needed anymore for silver circulation.
        It may be possible that the warm up period is done only once, in the factory. This way many subsystems could be eliminated from the delivered product.

        • Bob Greenyer

          It is a dynamic system and whilst it has “no moving parts” in is increadibly dynamic.

          The electrostatic pumps for two silver jets, the pumps and fan for the solar cooling system will need permanent power as will control systems for ramping up and down output power from the system. Additionally out of periods of self sustain, and when driving it harder the super capacitors will need to be managed and charged / pulse released. This will all use some energy – however, since the energy after start-up is a fraction of that generated in a closed loop, the COP is effectively infinite.

          A battery could store start-up power for off times.

          • tlp

            If you listen to those roadshow events, they are planing to run it in self sustain mode all the time, so electrostatic pumps are not needed after startup. COP is anyway huge, but that could mean that the machine could be much simpler, if it could be delivered already warmed up and running all the time. Extra power is just dumped, as the fuel is free and available everywhere.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Self sustain in this case means … er self sustain, that is to say, no external power source. There will be periods when there is active arc addition which would also definitely need the electrostatic pumps working. There maybe time when the dynamics of the system would allow no need for arcing.

            In ALL cases, the pumps for the solar power coolant and radiator fan will need to harvest some of the captured electricity – regardless of interpretation of presentations, this is a self-evident fact, if the ‘hydrino’ creation process etc. is working, it will produce prodigious light and heat and this will require the solar panels to be cooled otherwise they would fail quickly. The control systems to run the pumps and the fan rate will need power also.

            That the system internally, once started can be powered off a fraction of the generated power makes the system as a whole self sustaining.

            You could argue that with very clever steam turbine engineering, you could drive the cooling pump and fans from steam generated by the coolant, however, this is a LOT of engineering and an electric motor or two would be more trivial to digitally control.

          • tlp

            If you have watched roadshow videos, you would know that after warm up phase self sustain plasma stays indefinitely, no need for arc current nor electromagnetic pumping anymore.
            Of course cooling is needed all the time for PVs and a tiny amount (compared to output power) of electricity is needed there, and small amount of electricity for getting hydrogen from water (though in first protos hydrogen is from a bottle).

          • Bob Greenyer

            I simply do not know on what basis you can state that it will self sustain indefinitely – it is a really dynamic system for one, secondly, even at best they have only had the latest models running under 1 hour.

            Practically it does not matter from an external view point, but I would be extremely surprised that the core reaction which is so violent, dynamic and necessarily going to provide variable power output would yield a reaction that is consistently smooth and self sustained at the core.

            I have watched too many BLP presentations and more related information – in other videos you can hear the trigger frequency audibly change and Mills clearly states this is the firing frequency – this was with static electrodes, predictability will drop with fluid electrodes in a violently dynamic gas / plasma etc. environment.

          • tlp

            You should watch those latest two roadshow videos, older ones contain old information.
            Mills explained this self sustain mode very well there. Basically the output power can be kept constant all the time, the machine is operating in the sweet spot continuously.

          • Bob Greenyer

            @disqus_abypwM3Epd:disqus
            not sure why you are labouring the point, I said from the outset that the system as a whole would be closed loop and therefore self-sustain from an external viewpoint, therefore it matters little what is going on in the core after start-up.

            That being said, the parts I have identified in the cooling and control systems will need constant draw on the generated power – this does not imply that the electrical output would be less than the quoted 150kW. Indeed, I would think and expect the system would be significantly underrated to ensure guaranteed performance level.

            Regardless of what has been said or not said in any presentation or even internal memo, it is frankly disingenuous to claim a 24/7/365 self-sustain of the core (the molten silver / hydrogen reaction) with runs of only 30 mins (even 6 hours). The wonderful simplicity they have achieved will give them a good shot, but it is too early to claim. If they were certain, they would not have made such a thing of modular swappable replaceable parts in their presentation, they would have said something like “this is as reliable as a door stop, once in place, it keeps on doing its job”.

            Additionally, as I have identified and laid out in other comments, with a carbon sphere and arcing at intervals, there is a chance of Ohsawa reactions leading to Magnesium formation and potentially to the whole Ohsawa reaction chain products, this would change the system over time. Of course, this assumes Ohsawa and the many people that have replicated his work have not somehow fooled themselves. If however it does, BLP would simply have never have observed these products in the short periods they have operated their device for (at least WRT their public announcement).

    • optiongeek

      Actually, in the current design, the liquid electrodes will be withdrawn and the EM pumps turned off during steady-state. Mills discovered that the reaction self-sustains when the silver vapor reaches a certain pressure and temperature. The silver vapor itself can provide the negative resistance condition provided by the arc current. The electrodes are only needed when the device is started – i.e. once per maintenance cycle for the life of the unit.

  • I think it is now clear why Darden dropped the ball with Rossi:

    BLP is virtually ready for market, what is the point to keep a 90M USD bet on Rossi who is still tinkering with his reactors and nobody knows when/if will he ever deliver? (let’s not forget how many years it took BLP to do it right).

    Rossi lost competitivity on the market after BLP became ready for the market, in fact his product may never come to fruition, the lawsuit may pay him well though – Darden and Woodford made a bad bet on Rossi, BLP was the right bet, now Darden will try to get out with as little damage as possible, but some money will end into Rossi’s pockets in the end, that is what the lawsuit is all about.

    • LilyLover

      Your thinking is incorrect.
      They are fighting in the court to “gain control of the IP”. They are unwilling to let go of Rossi’s IP even when Rossi was willing to pay back all the monies received from them.
      They were about to backstab Rossi, but Rossi developed something far more advanced making the older technology obsolete. That’s where the heartburn for DirtyDen.
      Let us forget how many years it took for BLP – Why? Rossi is Rossi. Superior. Different. His invention is different, even if the end goal is same – cheap energy.

      E-Cats and Quarx will come to fruition, notwithstanding your “energy-investments” or interests.

      “Darden and Woodford made a bad bet …”
      This was a case of bet with bad intentions. The bet itself would have been good.

      “… but some money will end into Rossi’s pockets in the end, that is what the lawsuit is all about.”
      Seems that you regret Rossi getting some money.
      BUT this lawsuit is bigger than abolition of slavery. This is about uncontrolled right to happy life.
      This is about evolution of human species.
      Perhaps beyond your grasp, but please go through the older archives of ECW.

      • enantiomer2000

        Assuming Rossi’s tech is real, I would say it is not superior. He is looking at only selling heat reactors. Mills will be selling direct electricity at a flat rate ($.05/kWh). Electricity is far more versatile than heat. Now if Rossi was able to package his tech up so that it could power your home with electricity AND sell the device rather than paying a per diem for the electricity (as BrLP is going to do), he could win. The device would have to be pretty cheap though. It would have to sell for roughly $10,000 or less and have a lifetime of 20+ years to compete with BrLP. He would also need to come to market with this device pretty soon otherwise BrLP will already have grabbed huge market share. My conjecture is that Rossi will not be able to pull it off and will deliver too little too late.

        • LilyLover

          “Electricity is far more versatile than heat.”
          Exactly! That’s why Rossi’s new QuarX are going to be superior.
          Modular pieces estimated by some at $2 per 20W module, is far more versatile.
          I’d rather pay extra 200 to have such a module in my phone, TV, laptop, car … etc.
          Rossi is planning on selling objects; not merely a supply connection.
          You cannot fit in the SunCell inside a mobile phone.
          Even if I get convinced that SunCells are 10% superior to Rossi-Products, I’ll go with Rossi-Products.
          Mills is more impressive in theory; Rossi is a more endearing philosopher.

          • enantiomer2000

            If Rossi’s tech can produce direct electricity and power everything from a phone to a house, and sell it at a competitive price, he wins. Rossi is very very short on details of his QuarkX ATM though. I consider it vaporware until we see some evidence…

  • I think it is now clear why Darden dropped the ball with Rossi:

    BLP is virtually ready for market, what is the point to keep a 90M USD bet on Rossi who is still tinkering with his reactors and nobody knows when/if will he ever deliver? (let’s not forget how many years it took BLP to do it right).

    Rossi lost competitivity on the market after BLP became ready for the market, in fact his product may never come to fruition, the lawsuit may pay him well though – Darden and Woodford made a bad bet on Rossi, BLP was the right bet, now Darden will try to get out with as little damage as possible, but some money will end into Rossi’s pockets in the end, that is what the lawsuit is all about.

    • roseland67

      Yeah,
      For sure, that’s the reason

    • LilyLover

      Your thinking is incorrect.
      They are fighting in the court to “gain control of the IP”. They are unwilling to let go of Rossi’s IP even when Rossi was willing to pay back all the monies received from them.
      They were about to backstab Rossi, but Rossi developed something far more advanced making the older technology obsolete. That’s where the heartburn for DirtyDen.
      Let us forget how many years it took for BLP – Why? Rossi is Rossi. Superior. Different. His invention is different, even if the end goal is same – cheap energy.

      E-Cats and Quarx will come to fruition, notwithstanding your “energy-investments” or interests.

      “Darden and Woodford made a bad bet …”
      This was a case of bet with bad intentions. The bet itself would have been good.

      “… but some money will end into Rossi’s pockets in the end, that is what the lawsuit is all about.”
      Seems that you regret Rossi getting some money.
      BUT this lawsuit is bigger than abolition of slavery. This is about uncontrolled right to happy life.
      This is about evolution of human species.
      Perhaps beyond your grasp, but please go through the older archives of ECW.

      • enantiomer2000

        Assuming Rossi’s tech is real, I would say it is not superior. He is looking at only selling heat reactors. Mills will be selling direct electricity at a flat rate ($.05/kWh). Electricity is far more versatile than heat. Now if Rossi was able to package his tech up so that it could power your home with electricity AND sell the device rather than paying a per diem for the electricity (as BrLP is going to do), he could win. The device would have to be pretty cheap though. It would have to sell for roughly $10,000 or less and have a lifetime of 20+ years to compete with BrLP. He would also need to come to market with this device pretty soon otherwise BrLP will already have grabbed huge market share. My conjecture is that Rossi will not be able to pull it off and will deliver too little too late.

        • LilyLover

          “Electricity is far more versatile than heat.”
          Exactly! That’s why Rossi’s new QuarX are going to be superior.
          Modular pieces estimated by some at $2 per 20W module, is far more versatile.
          I’d rather pay extra 200 to have such a module in my phone, TV, laptop, car … etc.
          Rossi is planning on selling objects; not merely a supply connection.
          You cannot fit in the SunCell inside a mobile phone.
          Even if I get convinced that SunCells are 10% superior to Rossi-Products, I’ll go with Rossi-Products.
          Mills is more impressive in theory; Rossi is a more endearing philosopher.

          • enantiomer2000

            If Rossi’s tech can produce direct electricity and power everything from a phone to a house, and sell it at a competitive price, he wins. Rossi is very very short on details of his QuarkX ATM though. I consider it vaporware until we see some evidence…

  • Gerard McEk

    It is a good thing that Mills’s invention is covered by CNN, however in contrast to Rossi he does accept money/loans from private entities. Mills has been doing this for maybe 20 yeas now and used tens of millions of dollars to bring a product on the market. Till now there has been no product and I wonder how long more it will take. 2 Years from now seems very short considering the development level of the SunCell at this moment. It is a very risky investment be warned!

    • Brent Buckner

      I think the court case documents Rossi accepting $11.5 million from private entities.

      • Gerard McEk

        That’s right, I should have said private persons.

    • Epi

      I think Mills does not take private investments anymore. I read from at least two persons who have tried to buy shares and Mills answered that he does not need it anymore. Now is time for big money 🙂

  • Gerard McEk

    It is a good thing that Mills’s invention is covered by CNN, however in contrast to Rossi he does accept money/loans from private entities. Mills has been doing this for maybe 20 yeas now and used tens of millions of dollars to bring a product on the market. Till now there has been no product and I wonder how long more it will take. 2 Years from now seems very short considering the development level of the SunCell at this moment. It is a very risky investment be warned!

    • Brent Buckner

      I think the court case documents Rossi accepting $11.5 million from private entities.

      • Gerard McEk

        That’s right, I should have said private persons.

    • Epi

      I think Mills does not take private investments anymore. I read from at least two persons who have tried to buy shares and Mills answered that he does not need it anymore. Now is time for big money 🙂

  • Jas

    Article on Futurism about Cold Fusion/Lenr. I wrote to Futurism’s editors a few months ago. I asked why they only talked about Hot Fusion.
    Its about time they covered Lenr. Nothing to do with my letter though. More to do with CNN. Mills has said his technology is not Cold Fusion. He won’t be happy with the comparisons but he sure will be happy with the publicity.
    Is the Promise of Cold Fusion Still Worth Waiting For?
    https://futurism.com/?p=65911

    • Bob Greenyer

      Agreed, several have called out the (potential) existance of fractional Hydrogen over the years and it is not nuclear.

      On the matter of will their be CF in the device – if anyone could legally look at the isotopic spread in the SunCell(tm) core after a year of operation, I’d bet a good chunk of change that you would see element isotopic ratios in there different than from the starting reaction products. This is not to claim that the majority of the energy would be from the production of these.

  • Jas

    Article on Futurism about Cold Fusion/Lenr. I wrote to Futurism’s editors a few months ago. I asked why they only talked about Hot Fusion.
    Its about time they covered Lenr. Nothing to do with my letter though. More to do with CNN. Mills has said his technology is not Cold Fusion. He won’t be happy with the comparisons but he sure will be happy with the publicity.
    Is the Promise of Cold Fusion Still Worth Waiting For?
    https://futurism.com/?p=65911

    • Bob Greenyer

      Agreed, several have called out the (potential) existance of fractional Hydrogen over the years and it is not nuclear.

      On the matter of will their be CF in the device – if anyone could legally look at the isotopic spread in the SunCell(tm) core after a year of operation, I’d bet a good chunk of change that you would see element isotopic ratios in there different than from the starting reaction products. This is not to claim that the majority of the energy would be from the production of these.

  • Rossi Fan

    LENR in mainstream media is nothing new
    been there done that

    open field test or closed secretive field test?

    if it is a for their eyes only field test then BLP is no better or worse than Rossi

  • Rossi Fan

    LENR in mainstream media is nothing new
    been there done that

    open field test or closed secretive field test?

    if it is a for their eyes only field test then BLP is no better or worse than Rossi

  • HiggsField

    I’m very excited for BLP. Cannot wait until March/April when they can fire up this puppy with PVs attached.

    When the SunCell comes to fruition (beta units) in next 12 months or so I think LENR is going to die on the vine. After all what is the point of doing any further work in this area given that BLP has built a completely self sustained plasma (aka “Sun”) inside a tea cup that requires only enough power to run the cooling system. It’s COP is close to infinite. Rossi & Brillouin Energy simply cannot complete with BLP’s technology. All funding for their work will quickly go away. LENR will remain an oddity and given its very low energy density compared with the SunCell it will be quickly forgotten.

    On a side note I read an interesting paper on arxiv.org that argues that the only way we humans can realistically reach out to the stars and even the nearby planets is through the development of a photon drive. I think BLP’s technology could readily be applied to this application. Afterall what is this technology going to look like 20 years from now when everyone and their aunt has jumped onto the bandwagon?

    • BadgerWI

      I think it will continue. LENR has some advantages over the SUN Cell. One of the glaring advantages is in space. The SunCell apparently needs gravity to work witch takes it out of the running for powering Space exploration.

      *Edit*
      Reading a few post down I’ve learned that I am incorrect. The silver pumps are only necessary on start up when they are turned off once it hits self sustaining mode.

      • HiggsField

        I think overtime with others getting involved other ways will be discovered to fired off the reaction. The use of liquid silver electrodes was a natural evolution of the earlier prototypes. Given a fresh start I can think of other ways the reaction might be started.

        One reason LENR will likely not continue is that the physics and astrophysics world will be too busy rewriting everything.

    • Epi

      I think LENR has a future. All possible Space and Aircraft applications need as much power density in the FUEL as they can get. Nuclear reactions offer a >1000 times increase in fuel power density compared to the hydrino reaction.

      But you are right. BLP and hydrinos are going to be hyped and the mainstream is focusing on this technology. I think LENR and hydrino are closely linked – so an advance in the hydrino field is an advance in LENR 🙂

      Mills stated that he could not push the COP of his older systems further than 1.3 . It was typically between 1.1 and 1.3. This sounds pretty familiar to someone from the LENR field 🙂

      • HiggsField

        How do you come to this low COP value for the SunCell? I think perhaps you are thinking of the early systems BLP demoed when they used tungsten electrodes firing off a few 10’s of fuel pellets per min.

        When the SunCell’s plasma reaction becomes self sustaining there is no input power to the cell. The only power needed is to run the cooling system, a few hundred Watts perhaps. As long as you put in HOH the plasma keeps going. At this point the COP of the SunCell is close to infinity, not 1.3. Also, I think you will find the the energy density of the SunCell is orders of magnitude greater than nuclear reactions. That’s why this technology will eventually supplant nuclear power. Fusion power also, as it will never ever be developed.

    • enantiomer2000

      Agree with you almost 100%. I do think that in that these LENR experiments where excess heat is being produced, they will discover that it is actually hydrinos being created. The LENR researchers have made very little progress for the same reason that the QM guys have made very little progress: They all think that they already have the answer (they don’t) and are just trying to prove it.

    • Job001

      Nah, it will work like a Dutch auction with high prices to start with. Therefore, LENR will be needed for competition, along with all of the other energy forms during the growth of BLP market offerings. Remember, the marginal value of existing investments is ZERO i.e.(Sunk costs are irrelevant)! Consequently they can compete on marginal costs and delay switching over to new lower cost long term technology.

      • HiggsField

        Your are right about high prices to start. But, this is always the cases for any new technology. Remember the price of plasma HDTV screens when they first appeared $10k+. Price follows a curve and it might only take less than 5 years to the cost to drop several orders of magnitude. Also, many companies are going to jump on the this, as there is increasing imperative to get the world off of fossil fuel before global warming become a runaway reaction.

        LENR is not a competitive driver since there are no confirmed working LENR systems to date.

  • f sedei

    Rossi-Mills = a new science?

    • Stephen

      Im quite Intrigued by the possibility that these technologies really are using different mechanisms to generate energy and if both hydrinos or any other form of dense hydrogen exists as well as LENR in what ever form it takes.

      If so I can’t help wondering what kind if synergies between these technologies can arise. Could LENR make use of Hydrinos or any equivalent? Could LENR products on the other hand be useful for the Sun cell? Or could some other more subtle side effects such of these technologies such as the EM evironment enhance each other.

      If we add to this Holmlids technology which may in its self be different in detail. I think you may be right about new science. Certainly a new understanding about it.

      With this technology applied along with the possibilities raised by new capacitor technologies, super conductors, possibly “reaction-less” drive technologies, as well advances in well known technologies in nano plasmonics and condensed matter etc and even advanced in plasma containment and understanding the pinch from established big projects. Well the possibilities are stunning.

      It maybe new science but perhaps also a new scientific era.

      • enantiomer2000

        I suppose both could be legitimate. Mills OTOH thinks both LENR and EM-Drive are impossible. He does have a theorized “fifth force” which would allow an antigravity device. I would be delighted if either/both were commercialized. The sooner the better.

  • enantiomer2000

    Forever is a very long time with this tech. Let’s say that they hit their timelines and prototype tests out in the field for 2017 followed by a huge commercialization 2018. At that point the world wakes up and tens of billions of dollars (or more) start funneling into research. I think at that point progress would be very fast indeed. He could even get people to start testing out his fifth force experiments as well.

  • Job001

    Nah, it will work like a Dutch auction with high prices to start with. Therefore, LENR will be needed for competition, along with all of the other energy forms during the growth of BLP market offerings. Remember, the marginal value of existing investments is ZERO i.e.(Sunk costs are irrelevant)! Consequently they can compete on marginal costs and delay switching over to new lower cost long term technology.

  • Job001

    Suggest reviewing the actual research history and different technologies timing explored until this latest type. The spectroscopic research is outstanding…and the use of multilayer solar cells very clever also. I find no supportable reason to accuse this scientist of lying or fraud.

    • I wasn’t talking about whether or not the tech works. Maybe he’s telling the truth about that. I dunno. I was talking about his claiming that he didn’t really think about commercialization until 2013. That ain’t true.

  • sam

    Comments from Lenr forum

    Mary Yugo
    User Avatar
    Verified User
    Dec 24th 2016+2
    With Rossi you get dodgy business associates passing around fake business cards and phantom companies with no discernable business model. With Steorn you get bar-girls. With Mills you get dozens of real-life non-anonymous experts. These experts bring with them verifiable backgrounds with decades of experience working at top tier research labs and R&D companies. The investors and board members are from premium VCs, law firms and industrial companies who have collectively ponied up over $120m and waited with extreme patience for Mills to do his thing. If Mills wasn’t on the level, you can believe these folks have the resources and know-how to put an end to it.

    I am not as confident as you are about the experience and intelligence of Mills’ backers. What I can tell you is that his theory is poopoo’ed by most of main line physics. And as for practice, he has done absolutely nothing convincing in going on THIRTY years now. How long are you going to give him without a single properly done test by a major testing institution before you agree there is nothing of value to Mills and his devices?
    JedRothwell, Malcolm Lear, Jack Cole and one other like this.
    optiongeek
    User Avatar
    Student
    Dec 25th 2016+3
    Mary Yugo wrote:
    I am not as confident as you are about the experience and intelligence of Mills’ backers

    Perhaps we don’t run in the same circles. I’m very impressed with the Mills supporters I’ve come into contact with.

    How long are you going to give him without a single properly done test by a major testing institution before you agree there is nothing of value to Mills and his devices?

    As long as he needs. Someone can fake a lot. But no one can fake math. I’ve done the math. It checks out. Mills is right and it’s just a matter of time before the world recognizes it.

    • Jas

      What’s the point in posting Yugo rubbish here? We’ve heard all his drivel before. Just FUD.

      • Jas

        Yeah Yugo comes across as Intelligent but nothing positive comes from his mouth,

      • sam

        What do you think of optiongeek reply to M.Y.?

        • Jas

          Ive looked at Optiongeek’s replies to M.Y. Says the same as me that M.Y. has nothing positive to add. If you look at the Rossi vs Darden posts its virtually every poster saying that Rossi’s time is up and his defence is falling apart. Its so anti Rossi and pro IH.
          Optiongeek and Alan Smith try to keep the discussion level but the bias against Rossi and Mills is blatant.

  • sam

    Comments from Lenr forum

    Mary Yugo
    User Avatar
    Verified User
    Dec 24th 2016+2
    With Rossi you get dodgy business associates passing around fake business cards and phantom companies with no discernable business model. With Steorn you get bar-girls. With Mills you get dozens of real-life non-anonymous experts. These experts bring with them verifiable backgrounds with decades of experience working at top tier research labs and R&D companies. The investors and board members are from premium VCs, law firms and industrial companies who have collectively ponied up over $120m and waited with extreme patience for Mills to do his thing. If Mills wasn’t on the level, you can believe these folks have the resources and know-how to put an end to it.

    I am not as confident as you are about the experience and intelligence of Mills’ backers. What I can tell you is that his theory is poopoo’ed by most of main line physics. And as for practice, he has done absolutely nothing convincing in going on THIRTY years now. How long are you going to give him without a single properly done test by a major testing institution before you agree there is nothing of value to Mills and his devices?
    JedRothwell, Malcolm Lear, Jack Cole and one other like this.
    optiongeek
    User Avatar
    Student
    Dec 25th 2016+3
    Mary Yugo wrote:
    I am not as confident as you are about the experience and intelligence of Mills’ backers

    Perhaps we don’t run in the same circles. I’m very impressed with the Mills supporters I’ve come into contact with.

    How long are you going to give him without a single properly done test by a major testing institution before you agree there is nothing of value to Mills and his devices?

    As long as he needs. Someone can fake a lot. But no one can fake math. I’ve done the math. It checks out. Mills is right and it’s just a matter of time before the world recognizes it.

    • Jas

      What’s the point in posting Yugo rubbish here? We’ve heard all his drivel before. Just FUD.

      • Jas

        Yeah Yugo comes across as Intelligent but nothing positive comes from his mouth,

      • sam

        What do you think of optiongeek reply to M.Y.?

        • Jas

          Ive looked at Optiongeek’s replies to M.Y. Says the same as me that M.Y. has nothing positive to add. If you look at the Rossi vs Darden posts its virtually every poster saying that Rossi’s time is up and his defence is falling apart. Its so anti Rossi and pro IH.
          Optiongeek and Alan Smith try to keep the discussion level but the bias against Rossi and Mills is blatant.

    • CyberianGinseng

      I always find nonsense like this funny. How long did OLEDs take to come to the market? They were working on them in the 60s. Hot fusion researchers have done absolutely nothing in 60 years and they’ve used billions of our taxpayer dollars to do absolutely nothing. Say what you want about Mills, but at least he’s not asking me for money.

  • douglas gray

    If you look at the reports done by independent university professors, they say that the experimental results are solid, but they say nothing about the feasibility of commercialization, and how long that will take. Mills does have scientists and engineers with solid credentials working for the company. There are saavy people on the Board as well. The question is, how far away is a mass market device? Hard to say.

  • SG

    I think Mills is actually pretty smart for distancing himself as far as he possibly can from the word nuclear. This by itself may open doors. Rossi has tried to steer clear of the word as well, but hard to shake it when so closely tied to LENR.

  • SG

    I think Mills is actually pretty smart for distancing himself as far as he possibly can from the word nuclear. This by itself may open doors. Rossi has tried to steer clear of the word as well, but hard to shake it when so closely tied to LENR.

  • sam
  • sam
  • sam
  • sam
  • sam