Hindu Business Line: LENR and Hydrino Energy ‘Not Snake Oil Anymore’

Thanks to those who have pointed out this new article in the Hindu Business Line site that looks briefly at the work of Randall Mills/BLP, Andrea Rossi, Brillouin Energy, and the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project, and others in the LENR field.

The title of the article by M. Ramesh is ‘Not Snake Oil Anymore’. The basic premise of the article is that clean and cheap energy from cold fusion or hydrinos may not be a fantasy as there are signs that the work of these new generation of inventors could be serious and real, and should not be overlooked.

Ramesh writes in conclusion:

“The message is this: something very real, very disruptive is happening in the area of clean energy and is perched on the edge of commercialisation. India ought not to miss out.

“Dr Mahadeva Srinivasan, a nuclear scientist and formerly an Associate Director at Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, has been watching these developments with keen interest.

“It is high time India got involved in LENR more seriously because it has a huge potential to provide clean, cheap energy,” says Dr Srinivasan.”

A link to the article is here: http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/specials/clean-tech/not-snake-oil-anymore/article9543129.ece

  • Rene

    I thought India was along the road toward AHWR or LFTR thorium to U233 reactors. There have been delays, so maybe LENR+, if it ever gets to be a thing, is a good alternative for them. They are running out of uranium which gives them urgency.

    • R101

      We got plenty of uranium down here to sell em (Australia) and IIRC we are now allowed to sell it to them

      • Bob Greenyer

        Uranium will be very important for many years. LENR (either biological or engineered) may be the best route to deal with the waste.

        • Rene

          If LENR fails to be significant, there is the travelling wave reactor that can burn spent nuclear fuel or burn up convert depleted uranium into 1st cycle fuel.

          http://terrapower.com/pages/technology

          • atanguy

            I think that the fission way is dead now: Too expensive to develop, to use and get rid of waste. India should go to PV there is enough sun there and wind too.

          • Rene

            India already has gone to PV,somewhere around 9GW. It’s a big number but it amounts to around 3% of the total generated electricity of 300GW. They include as renewal energy PV, hydro and wind which totals 42 GW.
            Though insolation is high, available land for PV siting is scarce. Also, there is the problem of battery storage during night and monsoon season, so PV is not a total replacement panacea.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Well – maybe, in late 2010, Bill Gates said they had real problems with Neutrons.

          • Rene

            Yes, the neutron reflector let through a much larger flux than expected which started activating (and damaging) everything around the reactor. That plus fast neutrons made for a mess. There have been mitigations since. One article: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1504.01340.pdf

    • Bob Greenyer

      I am preparing to meet with Indian researchers in the coming weeks – and of course, you will get the scoop.

  • Rene

    I thought India was along the road toward AHWR or LFTR thorium to U233 reactors. There have been delays, so maybe LENR+, if it ever gets to be a thing, is a good alternative for them. They are running out of uranium which gives them urgency.

    • R101

      We got plenty of uranium down here to sell em (Australia) and IIRC we are now allowed to sell it to them

      • Bob Greenyer

        Uranium will be very important for many years – the UK has staked 20% of its electrical capacity on just one new Uranium fuelled reactor!

        LENR (either biological or engineered) may be the best route to deal with the waste.

        • Rene

          If LENR fails to be significant, there is the travelling wave reactor that can burn spent nuclear fuel or burn up convert depleted uranium into 1st cycle fuel.

          http://terrapower.com/pages/technology

          • atanguy

            I think that the fission way is dead now: Too expensive to develop, to use and get rid of waste. India should go to PV there is enough sun there and wind too.

          • Rene

            India already has gone to PV,somewhere around 9GW. It’s a big number but it amounts to around 3% of the total generated electricity of 300GW. They include as renewal energy PV, hydro and wind which totals 42 GW.
            Though insolation is high, available land for PV siting is scarce. Also, there is the problem of battery storage during night and monsoon season, so PV is not a total replacement panacea.

          • Ramesh Mat

            India targets 60 GW of PV by 2022, it may achieve it by 2025, but yes, as Rene says, in energy terms it will always be small. I wonder why nobody talks of ocean energy, which is not only clean, but also 24×7. It is expensive today, but that is only because there is no scale.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Well – maybe, in late 2010, Bill Gates said they had real problems with Neutrons.

          • Rene

            Yes, the neutron reflector let through a much larger flux than expected which started activating (and damaging) everything around the reactor. That plus fast neutrons made for a mess. There have been mitigations since. One article: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1504.01340.pdf

    • Bob Greenyer

      I am preparing to meet with Indian researchers in the coming weeks – and of course, you will get the scoop.

      • suhas ralkar

        Request let us know if these meetings are scheduled in India

        • Bob Greenyer

          Yes. Scheduled now. 28th in Mumbai. Venue to be confirmed. Dr. Mahadevan Srinivasan (former Baba Atomic Research Centre LENR lead researcher) and other participants in the Indian LENR research field will be present.

          I may be able to meet people in Trivandrum later if that is more convenient to interested parties.

          • suhas R

            I am in mumbai and interested to be participant in the Mumbai meeting . I will be in touch with Dr M Srinivasan for inclusion and to know more about the programme of meeting.
            I am 74 year researcher following LENR for six years+ and basically from High power ultrasonics , Electro-plasma cleaning/ coating field with some exposure to nano-material preparation.
            Looking forward to meet

          • Bob Greenyer

            Fantastic. Sounds like you have a great skill set, let’s hope there are more people as capable as you that can come and perhaps get some independent groups working together in India. Mumbai is nearly as big as cities gets – so there are sure to be many others interested to make things happen.

          • SV ALAPAD

            Will be great to meet you and listen to your experiences We will

  • bachcole

    Actually, I want some of that snake oil stuff. If I could take a few ounces every day, my guess is that it would help me a lot. Hopefully it isn’t very expensive. (:->) It is not the snake oil that I worry about. It is the 300 million Americans who think nothing of (1) depending upon mainstream medicine and pharmaceutical companies for their health instead of thinking their health care through themselves, and (2) actually taking pharmaceutical drugs regularly, from Tylenol to the hard stuff.

  • bachcole

    Actually, I want some of that snake oil stuff. If I could take a few ounces every day, my guess is that it would help me a lot. Hopefully it isn’t very expensive. (:->) It is not the snake oil that I worry about. It is the 300 million Americans who think nothing of (1) depending upon mainstream medicine and pharmaceutical companies for their health instead of thinking their health care through themselves, and (2) actually taking pharmaceutical drugs regularly, from Tylenol to the hard stuff.

  • Barry Mead

    India would be wise to consider alternatives to light water nuclear reactors. They are extremely wasteful of nuclear fuel (only using 2% of the Uranium mass before becoming depleted). And when the fuel rods are depleted they are toxic and radioactive for thousands of years with no safe way to dispose of them. (I am talking about currently production ready practical implemented ways to dispose of them. Not just half baked theories or unrealized dreams). Thorium reactors are less wasteful, but practical reactors have not yet been developed fully, and are probably not going to arrive before safer, cleaner, cheaper, better alternatives do. How many Fukushima type melt down & contamination disasters will it take before the world starts to realize that there is a very definite down side to light water nuclear reactors.

    • Angry SQUIRREL!!

      Nah, there has been a lot of recent advancements in nuclear waste management. Late last year the university of Bristol developed a method of creating diamond batteries that use nuclear waste as its energy source.

      https://youtu.be/b6ME88nMnYE

    • Ramesh Mat

      Well, we (India) are not going to have too many of them anyway, let me assure you. Maybe another 10 GW, but that’s it.

  • I disagree with the specific optimism of this article on some technology, but Indian actors are more free than average.
    They love technology, and know how to battle for their intellectual independence.

    Recently they have developped their own GMO, they own drug production lines, negociated prices for drugs and seeds.

    They are under attack from strong loggies, NGOs, industries… but they know they are big enough.

    note that India have some influence on Kenya, thanks to the commonwealth network and the share of their “emerging” quality.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Yes. Scheduled now. 28th in Mumbai. Venue to be confirmed. Dr. Mahadevan Srinivasan (former Baba Atomic Research Centre LENR lead researcher) and other participants in the Indian LENR research field will be present.

    I may be able to meet people in Trivandrum later if that is more convenient to interested parties.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Save some water for us to drink.

    • bachcole

      With sufficient energy, nothing else would be a problem, even too little water.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Not if your fuel is water.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          PS

          It’s a chemical reaction that has only 100 times more energy
          than hydrogen-oxygen combustion. Turning hydrogen into hydrino would not be reversible.
          We need hydrogen to live.

          • Alan DeAngelis
          • I was wondering when this “bogey man” issue would be raised. First time it was “What are we going to do if we run out of oil?” and now, water …

          • cashmemorz

            ,Just being aware of long term implications, just in case we get carried away with too much hydrino production for the sake of making our lives more convenient. Hydrogen, in the normal configuration with normally accepted ground state of orbital, is taken to be the most abundant element in the universe. So using up too much of it in the forseeable future should not be a problem, knock on wood. If, as Randell Mills claims, that the dark matter in our and possibly other galaxies is made of hydrinos, then there is that much more dark matter/hydrinos, as there is normal hydrogen. What that exactly implies, I am not sure, but there must have been a hell of a lot more hydrogen in the early universe if all that is true. The problem on the human scale is to be wary of depleting earths supply of hydrogen, whether in the form of gas in the atmosphere or bound up as the water that all life depends on. Again it will be a long time before we have much effect on that amount but it is always good to be
            prepared and know what the limits of our actions are or could be. Being optimistic to the point of “killing the goose that lays the golden egg” mentality, that is equal to detriment to our environment should not be what people with a brain do, and that is to plan ahead for the foreseeable and what contingencies it implies. That is one of the hallmarks of beings with a large brain, planning for the future.

            The “bogey man” you allude to is not so much a bogey as using ones inherent smarts to look ahead to avoid any obvious negative impacts of, as in the case of energy, whether oil or LENR, is to avoid making a good thing into too much of a good thing. In other words one should not get carried away and do something stupid if you have a brain to know the ramifications of getting carried away.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah, I was thinking that with the water in the asteroid belt we might be able to do this for several million years but is that a long time? How far would you have to travel outside of our solar system before you find more plentiful hydrogen?

          • US_Citizen71

            Just to the Oort Cloud plenty of comets to be had there.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah, it looks like there is a lot of hydrogen. The hydrino
            is a fascinating discovery. I think I’m just bummed out that it’s a chemical reaction (like burning coal), one millionth the energy of a nuclear reaction (eV vs. MeV).

          • Jas

            You just need to convince this man: Hydrinos do not exist, therefore technologies based upon hydrinos are groundless.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • Alan DeAngelis
          • US_Citizen71

            Yep! Maximize the efficiency of creating that reaction and you’re golden. If I were a nuclear engineer that is what I would be working on. So what if it is a fraction of current fission tech for energy density it is clean, proven and nuclear.

          • US_Citizen71

            It still a powerful source and we can source the hydrogen here on earth from other sources than water. I haven’t done the math but I would assume the hydrino release energy would be much greater than the energy needed to distill methane into hydrogen and carbon. There is always using crude as well it is hydrocarbons. We have enough easy sources to provide the energy to get out into the solar system and just beyond without taxing the planet too much. If it is real, I still need to see the loop closed.

          • cashmemorz

            The future probably holds more abilities to produce energy or something like it that will make LENr look like a small step up from rubbing two sticks together. Hydrogen won’t be a concern. More answers to what we want in terms of energy or whatever will produce more questions too deep for this discussion. And that will happen within the next 20-30 years, given quantum computing and all of the other tech coming together very fast.

          • GreenWin

            Really? “Dark Matter” is hydrino? An altered state of H2? That is invisible, ephemeral and totally undetectable by all known science?? Naw. It’s a lot easier to conclude that the mainstream science pundits (e.g. Mich Kaku) at City U NY, MIT, Princeton and Oxford just use the dark matter equation to ‘splain why the universe is inflating at a rate they cannot justify within Big Bang. http://bit.ly/2l135n0

            http://bit.ly/2l0UJvs

            Maybe Big Bang is W R O N G. Maybe cosmic background tells us just one thing: there is a finite bound to matter alignment in our visible universe. Which leads to a far more believable conclusion; that were are living in a SIMULATION (yes George, I’m STILL on the right path 🙂 ) This allows for all manner of impossible anomalies: non-red shift quasars, EPR entanglement, coronal temp anomaly, even those pesky ‘Unidentified Aerial Phenomena’ (Rendlesham Forest). Why? Cause we live in a freakin’ hologram! Controlled by disrespectful EBEs suffering narcissistic personality disorder (like Popeyes, Mary Ego, and ECN-CIA serial halfwits) Think this is nuts?

            A holographic universe,an idea first suggested in the 1990s, is one where all the information that makes up our 3-D ‘reality’ (plus time) is contained in a 2-D
            surface on its boundaries.

            http://bit.ly/2l0ZtkQ

            Professor Kostas Skenderis of Mathematical Sciences at the University of Southampton explains: “Imagine that everything you see, feel and hear in three dimensions (and your perception of time) in fact emanates from a flat two-dimensional field. The idea is similar to that ofordinary holograms where a three-dimensional image is encoded in a two-dimensional surface, such as in the hologram on a credit card.
            However, this time, the entire universe is encoded.”

            more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-01-reveals-substantial-evidence-holographic-universe.html#jCp

          • GreenWin

            dark matter search reveals: http://bit.ly/2l218qg

            Or: http://bit.ly/2l1YFw7

            http://bit.ly/2l0UJvs

            TOTAL FAIL from mainstream science clowns.

          • GreenWin

            Sorry friends looks like the our infantile Overseeres don’t like you knowing truth (Suprise)
            https://www.sciencenews.org/article/latest-dark-matter-searches-leave-scientists-empty-handed

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Save some water for us to drink.

    • bachcole

      With sufficient energy, nothing else would be a problem, even too little water.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Not if your fuel is water.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          PS

          It’s a chemical reaction that has only 100 times more energy
          than hydrogen-oxygen combustion. Turning hydrogen into hydrino would not be reversible.
          We need hydrogen to live.

          • Alan DeAngelis
          • I was wondering when this “bogey man” issue would be raised. First time it was “What are we going to do if we run out of oil?” and now, water …

          • cashmemorz

            ,Just being aware of long term implications, just in case we get carried away with too much hydrino production for the sake of making our lives more convenient. Hydrogen, in the normal configuration with normally accepted ground state of orbital, is taken to be the most abundant element in the universe. So using up too much of it in the forseeable future should not be a problem, knock on wood. If, as Randell Mills claims, that the dark matter in our and possibly other galaxies is made of hydrinos, then there is that much more dark matter/hydrinos, as there is normal hydrogen. What that exactly implies, I am not sure, but there must have been a hell of a lot more hydrogen in the early universe if all that is true. The problem on the human scale is to be wary of depleting earths supply of hydrogen, whether in the form of gas in the atmosphere or bound up as the water that all life depends on. Again it will be a long time before we have much effect on that amount but it is always good to be
            prepared and know what the limits of our actions are or could be. Being optimistic to the point of “killing the goose that lays the golden egg” mentality, that is equal to detriment to our environment should not be what people with a brain do, and that is to plan ahead for the foreseeable and what contingencies it implies. That is one of the hallmarks of beings with a large brain, planning for the future.

            The “bogey man” you allude to is not so much a bogey as using ones inherent smarts to look ahead to avoid any obvious negative impacts of, as in the case of energy, whether oil or LENR, is to avoid making a good thing into too much of a good thing. In other words one should not get carried away and do something stupid if you have a brain to know the ramifications of getting carried away.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah, I was thinking that with the water in the asteroid belt we might be able to do this for several million years but is that a long time? How far would you have to travel outside of our solar system before you find more plentiful hydrogen?

          • US_Citizen71

            Just to the Oort Cloud plenty of comets to be had there.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah, it looks like there is a lot of hydrogen. The hydrino
            is a fascinating discovery. I think I’m just bummed out that it’s a chemical reaction (like burning coal), one millionth the energy of a nuclear reaction (eV vs. MeV).

          • Jas

            You just need to convince this man: Hydrinos do not exist, therefore technologies based upon hydrinos are groundless.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • Alan DeAngelis
          • US_Citizen71

            Yep! Maximize the efficiency of creating that reaction and you’re golden. If I were a nuclear engineer that is what I would be working on. So what if it is a fraction of current fission tech for energy density it is clean, proven and nuclear.

          • US_Citizen71

            It still a powerful source and we can source the hydrogen here on earth from other sources than water. I haven’t done the math but I would assume the hydrino release energy would be much greater than the energy needed to distill methane into hydrogen and carbon. There is always using crude as well it is hydrocarbons. We have enough easy sources to provide the energy to get out into the solar system and just beyond without taxing the planet too much. If it is real, I still need to see the loop closed.

          • cashmemorz

            The future probably holds more abilities to produce energy or something like it that will make LENr look like a small step up from rubbing two sticks together. Hydrogen won’t be a concern. More answers to what we want in terms of energy or whatever will produce more questions too deep for this discussion. And that will happen within the next 20-30 years, given quantum computing and all of the other tech coming together very fast.

          • cashmemorz: “Just being aware of long term implications”

            Then, there are foolish extrapolations into the future; why is your extrapolation valid? Can you spot me even one technological ‘extrapolation’ from the past that has ‘held’ as our future has materialized?

            You can’t, since this kind of ‘extrapolation’, I submit, is a fool’s game.

            Something will supplant even Hydrino technology in the future, I think that is the ONLY valid ‘extrapolation’ that can be made.

          • cashmemorz

            If the experts who are able to predict the “Singularity ” are also foolish then I am in good company. The information to confirm what particular and fully detailed LENR mechanism(sd) are at work is being gathered as we speak. I. e. MFMP project ME 356, Mitsubishi transmutaion pathway, and may other experts. The exact date is not predicatable but the general time slot is. What is your expertise to deny this?

          • GreenWin

            Really? “Dark Matter” is hydrino? An altered state of H2? That is invisible, ephemeral and totally undetectable by all known science?? Naw. It’s a lot easier to conclude that the mainstream science pundits (e.g. Mich Kaku) at City U NY, MIT, Princeton and Oxford just use the dark matter equation to ‘splain why the universe is inflating at a rate they cannot justify within Big Bang. http://bit.ly/2l135n0

            http://bit.ly/2l0UJvs

            Maybe Big Bang is W R O N G. Maybe cosmic background tells us just one thing: there is a finite bound to matter alignment in our visible universe. Which leads to a far more believable conclusion; that were are living in a SIMULATION (yes George, I’m STILL on the right path 🙂 ) This allows for all manner of impossible anomalies: non-red shift quasars, EPR entanglement, coronal temp anomaly, even those pesky ‘Unidentified Aerial Phenomena’ (Rendlesham Forest). Why? Cause we live in a freakin’ hologram! Controlled by disrespectful EBEs suffering narcissistic personality disorder (like Popeyes, Mary Ego, and ECN-CIA serial halfwits) Think this is nuts?

            A holographic universe,an idea first suggested in the 1990s, is one where all the information that makes up our 3-D ‘reality’ (plus time) is contained in a 2-D
            surface on its boundaries.

            http://bit.ly/2l0ZtkQ

            Professor Kostas Skenderis of Mathematical Sciences at the University of Southampton explains: “Imagine that everything you see, feel and hear in three dimensions (and your perception of time) in fact emanates from a flat two-dimensional field. The idea is similar to that ofordinary holograms where a three-dimensional image is encoded in a two-dimensional surface, such as in the hologram on a credit card.
            However, this time, the entire universe is encoded.”

            more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-01-reveals-substantial-evidence-holographic-universe.html#jCp

          • GreenWin

            dark matter search reveals: http://bit.ly/2l218qg

            Or: http://bit.ly/2l1YFw7

            http://bit.ly/2l0UJvs

            TOTAL FAIL from mainstream science clowns.

          • GreenWin

            Sorry friends looks like the our infantile Overseeres don’t like you knowing truth (Suprise)
            https://www.sciencenews.org/article/latest-dark-matter-searches-leave-scientists-empty-handed

          • TVulgaris

            The true (and current) problem is CLEAN water for human consumption- were we to ever consume enough water for hydrino (or whatever) energy production to constitute a threat to the drinking water supplies (so, we’d have already de-salinated enough of the oceans to cause a problem), we’d have had to face a MUCH bigger problem with thermal runaway of the entire planet from the waste heat of the power generated and used, unless we could cut heat loss to far less than 1%- near-zero chance of that.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Fantastic. Sounds like you have a great skill set, let’s hope there are more people as capable as you that can come and perhaps get some independent groups working together in India. Mumbai is nearly as big as cities gets – so there are sure to be many others interested to make things happen.

    • SV ALAPAD

      Will be great to meet you and listen to your experiences We will

  • Hansi Hintern

    Even if this hydrino stuff would work, it would mean, that the hydrogen
    atoms are put into a lower energy state, which they would be unable to
    reach in nature, so there is something up to it like that the hydrogen
    atoms are integrated in e.g. crystal structure (there’s another article
    about hydrogen freezing in carbon nanotubes). Even if you could gain
    energy this way, you’d have “burnt” hydrogen, similar to water (Nelson:
    “Ha-ha”). I’d expect, that you would need to put energy into hydrinos to
    bring them back into their natural state. At best hydrinos might be an
    interesting way to store energy or maybe as cooling device.

  • cashmemorz

    If the experts who are able to predict the “Singularity ” are also foolish then I am in good company. The information to confirm what particular and fully detailed LENR mechanism(sd) are at work is being gathered as we speak. I. e. MFMP project ME 356, Mitsubishi transmutaion pathway, and may other experts. The exact date is not predicatable but the general time slot is. What is your expertise to deny this?

  • Ramesh Mat

    Thank you e-catworld.com, special thanks to Frank Acland, for taking my article on-board. Thanks also to Dr Mahadeva Srinivasan for being my principal resource person for LENR.

  • Nikusuke Doguro

    So, this whole thing is still going from 2011? Working prototype was done 6
    years ago and still no commercially available product? Or am I missing
    something?

  • Veblin

    The future of green energy
    Where energy is waiting to be tapped
    M. Ramesh
    MAY 07, 2017
    http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/where-energy-is-waiting-to-be-tapped/article18404885.ece
    Topics covered.
    Hydrogen
    Ocean energy
    Cold fusion

  • Veblin

    The future of green energy
    Where energy is waiting to be tapped
    M. Ramesh
    MAY 07, 2017
    http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/where-energy-is-waiting-to-be-tapped/article18404885.ece
    The intermittent nature of solar and wind power has triggered exploration of unusual sources of electricity
    Topics covered.
    Hydrogen
    Ocean energy
    Cold fusion