Palladium: Rossi’s Potential Hydrogenating Hammer (Max Temple)

The following post has been submitted by Max Temple

Atomic hydrogen is critical to maximize hydrogen absorption into nickel. Nickel by itself can disassociate molecular hydrogen (H2) into atomic hydrogen (H1) but the process can be slow and inefficient. However, palladium (Pd) is an element that can rapidly disassociate molecular hydrogen into atomic hydrogen. The process of one catalytic element breaking apart molecular hydrogen (H2) and converting it into atomic hydrogen (H1) so the newly separated atoms can then literally move off the surface to interact with another substance is called, “Hydrogen spillover.”

In the top portion of this diagram, the hypothetical (although the basic phenomenon would be backed up by a huge amount of scientific literature) palladium E-Cat catalyst disassociates molecular hydrogen (H2) into atomic hydrogen (H1) that can then rapidly and efficiently diffuse through the surface of the nickel powder particle and be absorbed into the lattice.

In the lower diagram, a high surface area nickel powder with features often referred to as (cavities, tubules, micro-caves) and other terms by Andrea Rossi is utilized. The palladium catalyst particle which may be much smaller in diameter that the nickel particle enters into one of these surfaces features, being surrounded in all directions.

This results in a more direct path for the disassociated hydrogen to “spillover” onto the nickel for adsorption. Moreover, being trapped in the cavity (imagine possibly the ring of a volcano) there is no where for the atomic hydrogen to go except for into the nickel. Likely, since the H1 produced on the palladium surface does not stick to the palladium surface with the same degree of bonding, some H1 atoms easily and naturally detach from the palladium.

Other H1 atoms that are more strongly bonded may require pulsations or increases of heat and/or pressure to break free. Repeated thermal cycles may maximize the absorption of catalytically split atomic hydrogen into the nickel lattice. After an adequate loading is achieved, producing exotic hydrogen species, stimulation via thermal shocks or EM stimulation may result in excess heat production.

 

This slideshow includes additional information and references

http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/nanopd.pdf

nanopd

 

 

References

Adams, Brian D. and Aicheng Chen “The role of palladium in a hydrogen economy”, Materials Today June 2011
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369702111701432

Konda, Shuresh K. and Aicheng Chen “Palladium based nanomaterials for enhanced hydrogen spillover and storage” Materials Today March 2016
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369702115002473

http://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2829&start=495

  • Alan DeAngelis

    The Patterson cell was a nickel palladium system.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterson_Power_Cell

  • Alan DeAngelis

    The Patterson cell was a nickel palladium system.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterson_Power_Cell

  • Max Temple

    What’s up, folks?

    If you read the two documents listed as references, you will learn a great deal about how palladium is a fantastic catalyst for disassociating molecular hydrogen into atomic hydrogen. The success of many palladium-nickel systems is probably due to the ability of a small percentage of palladium to dramatically increase the hydrogen uptake of a target/substrate metal like nickel. Axil, a long time poster on different cold fusion discussion forums, was even bringing up the catalytic power of palladium in relation to the E-Cat in 2011. If Pd was the E-Cat catalyst, Andrea Rossi’s idea seems even better than Patterson’s. Having whole layers of palladium over the nickel is probably overkill. All that is really needed are single palladium (or small nano clusters) scattered across the nickel surface, caught up in the web like trap. The highly textured surface features of the nickel could serve both to grasp onto the palladium (entrapping it) and provide a “bridge” (greater contact area) for the H1 to “spillover” onto the nickel.

    The reasoning for the use of carbonyl nickel seems so even more logical now. Individuals such as the enigmatic Me356 have claimed COPs of 2-3 with just bulk nickel wire (no palladium whatsoever), so extremely high surface area doesn’t seem to be a significant factor in predicting anomalous heat production. The hyper-accelerated uptake of hydrogen (due to the ease of which H1 enters the lattice) seems to be the predominant factor involved. As I mentioned in the presentation, there may be other methods of maximizing hydrogen absorption.

    • Gerard McEk

      The idea seems right. The only question is why no palladium was found in th Lugano experiments. Another possibility is to use an electrical discharge system to dissociate H2, which was done by Greek Hyperion, I believe.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Electrical discharge and field application was used to load ANY ‘hydrogen storage member’ in the Canon patent which has now expired (priority date 4 Aug 1989 which even predated Piantellis 16th August 1989 happen-stance), the technique works and is open for anyone to use at their pleasure.

        • Max Temple

          The question is if that process alone can be used, without unreasonable effort, to repeatably — every single time — hydrogenate nickel to the extent that high levels of excess heat can be produced. I do not know the answer to this question.

          • Bob Greenyer

            They claim it worked repeatably and easily in the 2004 New Scientist article, whilst they said any “hydrogen storage member’ in their patent, I think they predominantly used Pd in their published work.

      • Max Temple

        There are different possibilities. 1) No palladium was used during fuel pre-processing or in the fuel going into the active reactor. For this to be true, there must have been some other processed used to optimally hydrogenate the fuel. 2) The fuel was pre-hydrogenated with palladium, platinum, or some other spillover catalyst, and afterwards the spillover catalyst metal was removed (filtered out or separated from the nickel) before the fuel was placed in the active reactor. Depending on the size of the palladium used this could be relatively easy or very difficult. The smaller the particles the more difficult I am guessing the separation process would be. 3) The palladium was used in the active fuel but at such a low percentage that it was not detected via analysis afterwards. I am not sure how possible this would be due to the fact even a tiny percentage (1%) of palladium black will make LiAlH4 spontaneously decompose. 4) The palladium used in the fuel was intentionally not mentioned in the fuel analysis.

        My best guess is the second possibility, that the palladium was removed from the fuel before it was placed in the active reactor.

        • Bob Greenyer

          We shared a video with Pd nano powder and LiAlD4 – it did spontaneously ‘flare up’ even in a super dry argon filled glove box – given the extreme expense of the Pd nano powder, it was not very satisfying for JPB and Mathieu Valat to witness.

          The suspicion was that there was a very small amount of entrapped water in the powders.

  • Max Temple

    What’s up, folks?

    If you read the two documents listed as references, you will learn a great deal about how palladium is a fantastic catalyst for disassociating molecular hydrogen into atomic hydrogen. The success of many palladium-nickel systems is probably due to the ability of a small percentage of palladium to dramatically increase the hydrogen uptake of a target/substrate metal like nickel. Axil, a long time poster on different cold fusion discussion forums, was even bringing up the catalytic power of palladium in relation to the E-Cat in 2011. If Pd was the E-Cat catalyst, Andrea Rossi’s idea seems even better than Patterson’s. Having whole layers of palladium over the nickel is probably overkill. All that is really needed are single palladium (or small nano clusters) scattered across the nickel surface, caught up in the web like trap. The highly textured surface features of the nickel could serve both to grasp onto the palladium (entrapping it) and provide a “bridge” (greater contact area) for the H1 to “spillover” onto the nickel.

    The reasoning for the use of carbonyl nickel seems so even more logical now. Individuals such as the enigmatic Me356 have claimed COPs of 2-3 with just bulk nickel wire (no palladium whatsoever), so extremely high surface area doesn’t seem to be a significant factor in predicting anomalous heat production. The hyper-accelerated uptake of hydrogen (due to the ease of which H1 enters the lattice) seems to be the predominant factor involved. As I mentioned in the presentation, there may be other methods of maximizing hydrogen absorption.

    • Stephen Harrison

      Could you just create a pellet of palladium in the reactor tube seperating the AlH from the nickel and the pressure of the released hydrogen would force it through this plug to the niclel converting molecular hydrogen to atomic. It was said that Rossi took the sample for testing from Lugano it would be easy to avoid the platinum if it were in a pellet at one end of the tube.

      • TVulgaris

        Carefully sintering a powder into a plug would limit the intimate surface contact with the LiAlH4 (orD4) far more than the loss of effective reaction area for dissociation it would produce- but then how that kind of structure would allow migration of Li to produce the ash results reported for Lugano is VERY difficult to visualize- not impossible, but I think FAR beyond anything except a very advanced research met lab.

    • Gerard McEk

      The idea seems right. The only question is why no palladium was found in th Lugano experiments. Another possibility is to use an electrical discharge system to dissociate H2, which was done by Greek Hyperion, I believe.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Electrical discharge and field application was used to load ANY ‘hydrogen storage member’ in the Canon patent which has now expired (priority date 4 Aug 1989 which even predated Piantellis 16th August 1989 happen-stance), the technique works and is open for anyone to use at their pleasure.

        • Max Temple

          The question is if that process alone can be used, without unreasonable effort, to repeatably — every single time — hydrogenate nickel to the extent that high levels of excess heat can be produced. I do not know the answer to this question.

          • Bob Greenyer

            They claim it worked repeatably and easily in the 2004 New Scientist article, whilst they said any “hydrogen storage member’ in their patent, I think they predominantly used Pd in their published work.

      • Max Temple

        There are different possibilities. 1) No palladium was used during fuel pre-processing or in the fuel going into the active reactor. For this to be true, there must have been some other processed used to optimally hydrogenate the fuel. 2) The fuel was pre-hydrogenated with palladium, platinum, or some other spillover catalyst, and afterwards the spillover catalyst metal was removed (filtered out or separated from the nickel) before the fuel was placed in the active reactor. Depending on the size of the palladium used this could be relatively easy or very difficult. The smaller the particles the more difficult I am guessing the separation process would be. 3) The palladium was used in the active fuel but at such a low percentage that it was not detected via analysis afterwards. I am not sure how possible this would be due to the fact even a tiny percentage (1%) of palladium black will make LiAlH4 spontaneously decompose. 4) The palladium used in the fuel was intentionally not mentioned in the fuel analysis.

        My best guess is the second possibility, that the palladium was removed from the fuel before it was placed in the active reactor.

        • Bob Greenyer

          We shared a video with Pd nano powder and LiAlD4 – it did spontaneously ‘flare up’ even in a super dry argon filled glove box – given the extreme expense of the Pd nano powder, it was not very satisfying for JPB and Mathieu Valat to witness.

          The suspicion was that there was a very small amount of entrapped water in the powders.

          • TVulgaris

            Bob, as I posted below-
            Carefully sintering a powder into a plug would limit the intimate surface contact with the LiAlH4 (orD4) far more than the loss of effective reaction area for dissociation it would produce- but then how that kind of structure would
            allow migration of Li to produce the ash results reported for Lugano is
            VERY difficult to visualize- not impossible, but I think FAR beyond anything except a very advanced research met lab.

            >>>An atomic-force microscope could do it relatively easily, but not at all quickly…

    • Zephir

      Nice theory – except that the neither Lugano, neither Parhomov tests did contain some palladium.The spillover catalyst has otherwise some merit, because multiple researchers (Patterson, Schwarz&Hagelstein and others) did use the combination of palladium with transitional metals with success. On the other hand, we also know that deuterons fuse at the surface of molten lithium without any apparent metal catalyst, palladium the less. Therefore this theory should be considered only complementary and specific to palladium environment.

      http://diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:52651/FULLTEXT01.pdf

      It may even possible, that palladium is LENR inactive in fact – all cold fusion reactions observed in it run at atoms of impurities between its crystal grains and dislocations – and the palladium only serves as a provider of atomic hydrogen in higher concentration, as it dissolves the hydrogen well. It could explain, why the attempts for cold fusion with very pure palladium in the early stages of cold fusion research failed, which has lead into its premature dismissal – actually just with research teams which attempted for careful replications with very pure palladium for the sake of reproducibility.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Good comments. I have thought that maybe atomic hydrogen is formed, in Rossi’s case, by small-scale arcing at sharp tips of nickel grains by the AC stimulation. Once LENR starts, any UV or X-rays produced by it should then generate more hydrogen.
        In any case, making H atoms from H2 needs energy.

  • David Brossa

    How about zirconium monoxide?

    It could behave as a replacement for palladium using the superatom phenomenon? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/1/2/820517/-

  • David Brossa

    How about zirconium monoxide?

    It could behave as a replacement for palladium using the superatom phenomenon? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/1/2/820517/-

  • Pekka Janhunen

    Good comments. I have thought that maybe atomic hydrogen is formed, in Rossi’s case, by small-scale arcing at sharp tips of nickel grains by the AC stimulation. Once LENR starts, any UV or X-rays produced by it should then generate more hydrogen.
    In any case, making H atoms from H2 needs energy.

  • builditnow

    A clue to the hidden secret of Rossi’s fuel.
    There must be something about the fuel that Industrial Heat has not been able to figure out in a year of trying. It’s clear that IH believes in LENR, and, that IH also believes Rossi knows how to make his reactors work, but, the exact same reactors built by IH using the same fuel, IH says don’t work. (evidenced by the court case and IH statements they are continuing with LENR).

    I strongly suspect that Rossi was confident that IH could not figure out the difference between the fuel made by him and that made by IH. So, what ever the difference is, it must be very hard (or impossible) to detect by any currently available analysis available to IH.

    So, what could be so hard to detect that could make such a difference?
    That is what we open source experimenters should focus on.

    It has to be some sort of process the fuel is put through.
    It is not the atomic or chemical makeup of the fuel, although, the right makeup we also don’t know and is important. (except if the quantities could be below measurable values).
    What sort of process could it be?

    The way forward could be to come up with all the different type of processes and try them.
    It could be a separate treatment that is applied to any of the components, even components that are thought to be contaminants or irrelevant. Is there any way to make an innocuous substance / atom into a hydrogen spillover catalyst?

    • cashmemorz

      The materials of the IP may all have been provided in complete detail as well as pre-processing and the like. As was elsewhere alluded to regarding the1989 F&P methods, there was a large transformer in the room behind the wall near which their apparatus was running.So, unbeknownst to F&P there was electro-magnetic pulsing that allowed for successfull production of excess energy which other experimenters to not have, as it was unknown to anyone doing the exact same experiment. Similar things could have happened to IH with only Rossi being aware of the “extra environmental stimulation”. I have an old EMP device that was used and still can be used for erasing reel to reel magnetic tape data/sound/video en mass. Called a mass storage demagnetizer, such a device, mine is 6 inches by 6 inches by 4 inches high, could be surreptitiously hidden with relative ease if one does not know what to look for. I am able to use this device for permanently removing data that is stubbornly not removable by software means as in the case of sophisticated malware deep inside data or engineering sectors of disks. This kind of method may be what Rossi has up his devious and or mistrusting sleeve and possibly answers why he but not IH had good results in replication despite having been shown everything about the apparatus as such. The technicality of extra apparatus could have been worded in the IP transfer to make it read as complete when in fact it was not, by using words such as contiguous to imply that the apparatus had everything “contiguously” required and thereby be truthful, technically.

      • builditnow

        Cashmemorz, No doubt Rossi could be hiding something like an electro-magnetic pulse device. However, I’d put the odds on that Rossi gave IH a full setup that would run a reactor that he loaded. My guess is that then Rossi and IH agreed that they had everything necessary to make running E-Cats and that all that was necessary was to prove reliability, a task assigned to Rossi as the developer and engineer. So, the one year test started. Meanwhile, IH was duplicating the reactors but, mysteriously, they did not work. Rossi may have even visited and got a reactor working for them. My guess is that after some months, IH became suspicious that there was something missing and by the end of the 12 month test they knew for certain they did not have everything needed to make a working reactor, and Rossi knew that IH knew.

        If all the guesses above are correct, then the missing “difference” is only in the fuel, because the rest of the “rig”, fully built by IH, worked with Rossi’s reactor. Well, perhaps the reactor itself, if, Rossi brought a fully loaded and ready to go reactor to IH in this guessed scenario. IH is behaving as though they have seen Rossi’s reactors work in a very convincing manner and have eliminated any possible trickery that could make a non functional reactor appear to be working. They are behaving like they know for sure that Rossi’s reactors work, and, that IH cannot make a working reactor even when apparently given all the information and training necessary to do so, from scratch.

        During the time of the one year test, IH, with funding in the many millions, would have have employed every test conceivable on fuel samples they likely had from Rossi. None of these tests showed a measurable difference between their fuel and Rossi’s fuel, otherwise they would have a direct breach of contract.

        There is a mixture of guessing and considerable certainty in the senario outlined. From IH’s behavior, I’d say it’s highly probably IH is convinced that a full Rossi setup works, 99%. Less certain, but still highly probable is that IH ran Rossi’s reactors in setups they built themselves from scratch as this would be required for the degree of conviction they are exhibiting 95%. Highly probable is that IH cannot get reactors they built themselves, according to Rossi’s instructions, to work in the same setup that Rossi’s reactors work in 100% (stated in the court case). This means that the difference is highly likely to be only in the reactor. So, is it the reactor or the fuel, I’d bet on the fuel 90%, giving the reactor without fuel a 10% chance of being the difference. A 1% chance that there is some trick EMF device hidden in the setup built from the ground up by IH, or that IH never built a full setup by themselves without Rossi’s involvement.

        To me, it all points to something in the fuel that Rossi is comfortable the best investigators cannot see by analysis. If so, this is a key clue for experimenters to consider. What treatment can you do to fuel that will be invisible to extensive tests and analysis, but, makes a big difference to the COP, raising it from something like 1.05 to 50.

      • builditnow

        Just out of curiosity, once you wipe the hard drive platters entirely clean, how do you replace these data and engineering sectors? From the way I see hard drive behaving as they age, it appears that some of the firmware is on the platter and would need to be correctly re-written for that exact version of disk. You are in deep if you know how to do that. 🙂

        • cashmemorz

          No need to be deep. The engineering sector is actually a cylinder, (I misnamed it as sector) a track that is physically, not firmware or software defined on hard drives. It is a track, physical radial co-ordinates off the physical area alloted for customer use. That area is there only for manufacturing engineering work testing such as when disks are returned for data retrieval. The read/write head is instructed to go there only on proprietary hardware in the manufacturers facility. It never affects whatever the customer or computer system needs to do. Magnetically erasing that area negates warranty in case you lose data in your area of the disk. On floppy disks it is a different ball game. The physical drive can be altered by a good geek to access that part of the disk. Before I use a disk, because I fool around a lot with dangerous sites and bad customers, I first make an image of the original disk. Even that does not always work. On the game “Thief- The Dark Project” and the later series, the CD/DVD disks sold have two physical partitions that are impossible to copy on a standard CD drive, unless you know the proprietory code on the main area of the disk or combination of that and are able to change parts of the hardware to move the read head closer to center of the disk. You can see the DVDs have a gap, non data writable area similar to the extreme center and outer edge in the area where the normal data area is on a standard CD. This inner gap extends closer to the center then another data writable area is made for the security of copyright written there. The CD drive is instructed to access that proprietory area using manufacturers and or game coders code. If you make an image of the disk it will not normally work. To make the image work, I was able to fool the programming to accept the image by first using the original disk to boot the installation of the game then as soon as the boot started I force ejected the disk, by pushing a pin into the emergency eject hole on the CD drive, and replaced it with a image disk. From then on I could use the image to continue on subsequent installations. Seems the code to continue installing becomes permanently installed on the hard drive for that game. If a change is made to the installation on the hard drive that negates the “continue installation via mirror image”. I learned the hard way that is easier to get a replacement disk from the store by paying insurance in case the originally bought disk set gets damaged. The original was used so many times at highest use speed that it eventually developed cracks and finally flew apart inside the DVD drive. Of course you have to return the damaged disk to the store to get a replacement. “here is the disk, in pieces if you can recognize it. Laugh.”

          9

          • builditnow

            cashmemorz My hard drive experience came about as a result of the 2000 dot bomb in Silly Con Valley. I ended up with half a dozen hard drives that were never used. They sat around, I used some, not others. About 2006 all these drives started to slow down, then have errors and eventually, even the one’s that were never used would fail to even identify themselves as a hard drive on any computer. I have some hard drives from a year before 1999 and these hard drive can even boot up and be recognized today. This problem occurred in different makes of drives, so it was (is?) a strategy change in hard drive technology industry wide.
            I guessed that the change was that some data and or code and or alignment data was written to the hard drive during manufacture, but, never written again. And, over time (about 6 years) the magnetic strength of this information faded to the point that it became unreliable to read and eventually unreadable.

            I did seem to trick one drive into refreshing some of this data, but, the refresh did not last more than a year or so, so, was not a complete refresh.

            I did run into a guy in a coffee shop one day that told me he was able to get the manufacturers setup to rewrite some of this data, I think he said the firmware tracks, but, the hard drive manufacturers cut him out of the loop after a while. I lost track of him.

            From this I guess that if you use your heavy duty eraser on a hard drive, and truly erase everything, it would be destroyed unless you can trigger something to write the manufacturing original information to the hard drive. I find it very difficult to erase floppy disks for instance, it takes an incredibly powerful magnet to erase them, so, you may not have enough juice to fully erase a hard drive. I have a bulk tape eraser that does not touch a floppy disk. It is also possible that all the firmware is now in chips rather than some being on the platter for new drives, given that chips have much higher capacity than in 2000. If that is the case, there is a chance that a drive would be able to re-establish a platter that is fully erased, but, it would take some time to do.

          • cashmemorz

            Thanks for filling in several holes in my amateur understanding of hard drives. My assumption was that the engineering cylinder was all there was to to the user or system data to keep a hard drive running. Now I am better armed to handle friends problems.

            This is not the forum for fixing computers, but as Frank Acland maybe gives us free rein maybe I can ask what to do if someone steals your windows 7 OEM disk, what to do to upgrade to windows 10. An acquaintance of mine took such a computer to Microsoft office in his area and they wanted $50 for a new disk. Doesn’t Microsoft have some way of getting hold of who has the same numbered disk on another computer to confirm the plight of the one who had theirs stolen. $50 bucks isn’t much considering that at this point in time windows 10 is no linger free but costs $100 for an upgrade from an OEM supplied Windows 7,8 for most users. Maybe MS is just meeting this guy halfway so as not to do any sleuthing for his benefit. Still MS must know how to do this. I know one can get the internet address of a computer if one is connected via Skype and other types of overt connection. But a covert type method maybe available?

    • Max Temple

      I honestly don’t think there is one secret. I think that he has changed his formula and recipe multiple times. However, with each change of ingredients there must also be many other changes when it comes to fuel prep, fuel mixing, pre-hyrdogenation, and other issues. For example, he may or may not have used palladium in his pre-hydrogenation of the Lugano fuel. Instead, it is possible that he used other elements as catalysts. Even nano-sized nickel powder mixed in with regular sized nickel powder can act as spillover catalysts. Also, for each type of catalyst, the duration of pre-hydrogenation, heating cycles, temperatures, and other issues would have to be adjusted.

      Just writing up a list of ingredients to mix together and submit to constant hydrogen pressure at a constant temperature is probably not enough to produce results.

      • builditnow

        Max Temple: WOW Max, you might have hit on it. Nano nickel would be missed as relevant by most analyzing reactor fuel, especially if most of it is lodged into crevices, and, it would not have the issue that Palladium has. How small would the nano nickel have to be, and, would there be some technique used (ultra sonic vibration?) to increase the chances of nano particles getting into appropriate crevices in the larger nickel particles.

        I agree with your comments in general. However, remember that it is likely that Rossi left working reactors in IH’s possession, as part of the hand off deal, and it is then likely that IH had several samples of the exact fuel mix to analyze that matched Rossi’s specification. This removes most of the variance, except some pre-processing that Rossi may not have disclosed, such as strategies to load hydrogen or something else. My view is that it’s something staring IH in the face, but, they are not recognizing it as important, and, Rossi is confident / hopeful they won’t notice before he gets his $89 million.

        Remember that Rossi’s goal in his dealings with IH is likely to balance the power dynamic of little Rossi with a few million vs a 2 billion fund that would be suddenly worth 2+ trillion if they announced what they had. So, little Rossi with a few million vs trillions. This power dynamic could easily just wash Rossi away into irrelevancy. So, Rossi is probably holding something back while he goes for the $89 million and also a contract that is blessed by the US federal courts. All this so that he has a chance of being relevant when the public wakes up.

    • Ted-Z

      I think that the Rossi’s secret is in preprocessing of nickel. The preprocessing could be as simple as 48 hours liquid nitrogen exposure, perhaps with some ultrasound and mechanical crushing. It is known in Metallurgy that the cryogenic treatment causes breaking g down the metallic microcrystalline. Under cryogenic conditions, microcavities and sharp edges will form for sure. In a powdered material any kind of chemical analysis will not detect the cryogenic treatment. I belive that the secret of Rossi is in the CRYOGENIC PRETREATMENT. Loading hydrogen several times might be similar to the cryogenic treatment as a result of creating compression and decompression stresses in the nickel crystals. PRO PUBLICO BONO.

  • builditnow

    A clue to the hidden secret of Rossi’s fuel.
    There must be something about the fuel that Industrial Heat has not been able to figure out in a year of trying. It’s clear that IH believes in LENR, and, that IH also believes Rossi knows how to make his reactors work, but, the exact same reactors built by IH using the same fuel, IH says don’t work. (evidenced by the court case and IH statements they are continuing with LENR).

    I strongly suspect that Rossi was confident that IH could not figure out the difference between the fuel made by him and that made by IH. So, what ever the difference is, it must be very hard (or impossible) to detect by any currently available analysis available to IH.

    So, what could be so hard to detect that could make such a difference?
    That is what we open source experimenters should focus on.

    It has to be some sort of process the fuel is put through.
    It is not the atomic or chemical makeup of the fuel, although, the right makeup we also don’t know and is important. (except if the quantities could be below measurable values).
    What sort of process could it be?

    The way forward could be to come up with all the different type of processes and try them.
    It could be a separate treatment that is applied to any of the components, even components that are thought to be contaminants or irrelevant. Is there any way to make an innocuous substance / atom into a hydrogen spillover catalyst?

    • cashmemorz

      The materials of the IP may all have been provided in complete detail as well as pre-processing and the like. As was elsewhere alluded to regarding the1989 F&P methods, there was a large transformer in the room behind the wall near which their apparatus was running.So, unbeknownst to F&P there was electro-magnetic pulsing that allowed for successfull production of excess energy which other experimenters to not have, as it was unknown to anyone doing the exact same experiment. Similar things could have happened to IH with only Rossi being aware of the “extra environmental stimulation”. I have an old EMP device that was used and still can be used for erasing reel to reel magnetic tape data/sound/video en mass. Called a mass storage demagnetizer, such a device, mine is 6 inches by 6 inches by 4 inches high, could be surreptitiously hidden with relative ease if one does not know what to look for. I am able to use this device for permanently removing data that is stubbornly not removable by software means as in the case of sophisticated malware deep inside data or engineering sectors of disks. This kind of method may be what Rossi has up his devious and or mistrusting sleeve and possibly answers why he but not IH had good results in replication despite having been shown everything about the apparatus as such. The technicality of extra apparatus could have been worded in the IP transfer to make it read as complete when in fact it was not, by using words such as contiguous to imply that the apparatus had everything “contiguously” required and thereby be truthful, technically.

      • builditnow

        Just out of curiosity, once you wipe the hard drive platters entirely clean, how do you replace these data and engineering sectors? From the way I see hard drive behaving as they age, it appears that some of the firmware is on the platter and would need to be correctly re-written for that exact version of disk. You are in deep if you know how to do that. 🙂

        • cashmemorz

          No need to be deep. The engineering sector is actually a cylinder, (I misnamed it as sector) a track that is physically, not firmware or software defined on hard drives. It is a track, physical radial co-ordinates off the physical area alloted for customer use. That area is there only for manufacturing engineering work testing such as when disks are returned for data retrieval. The read/write head is instructed to go there only on proprietary hardware in the manufacturers facility. It never affects whatever the customer or computer system needs to do. Magnetically erasing that area negates warranty in case you lose data in your area of the disk. On floppy disks it is a different ball game. The physical drive can be altered by a good geek to access that part of the disk. Before I use a disk, because I fool around a lot with dangerous sites and bad customers, I first make an image of the original disk. Even that does not always work. On the game “Thief- The Dark Project” and the later series, the CD/DVD disks sold have two physical partitions that are impossible to copy on a standard CD drive, unless you know the proprietory code on the main area of the disk or combination of that and are able to change parts of the hardware to move the read head closer to center of the disk. You can see the DVDs have a gap, non data writable area similar to the extreme center and outer edge in the area where the normal data area is on a standard CD. This inner gap extends closer to the center then another data writable area is made for the security of copyright written there. The CD drive is instructed to access that proprietory area using manufacturers and or game coders code. If you make an image of the disk it will not normally work. To make the image work, I was able to fool the programming to accept the image by first using the original disk to boot the installation of the game then as soon as the boot started I force ejected the disk, by pushing a pin into the emergency eject hole on the CD drive, and replaced it with a image disk. From then on I could use the image to continue on subsequent installations. Seems the code to continue installing becomes permanently installed on the hard drive for that game. If a change is made to the installation on the hard drive that negates the “continue installation via mirror image”. I learned the hard way that is easier to get a replacement disk from the store by paying insurance in case the originally bought disk set gets damaged. The original was used so many times at highest use speed that it eventually developed cracks and finally flew apart inside the DVD drive. Of course you have to return the damaged disk to the store to get a replacement. “here is the disk, in pieces if you can recognize it. Laugh.”

          9

          • builditnow

            cashmemorz My hard drive experience came about as a result of the 2000 dot bomb in Silly Con Valley. I ended up with half a dozen hard drives that were never used. They sat around, I used some, not others. About 2006 all these drives started to slow down, then have errors and eventually, even the one’s that were never used would fail to even identify themselves as a hard drive on any computer. I have some hard drives from a year before 1999 and these hard drive can even boot up and be recognized today. This problem occurred in different makes of drives, so it was (is?) a strategy change in hard drive technology industry wide.
            I guessed that the change was that some data and or code and or alignment data was written to the hard drive during manufacture, but, never written again. And, over time (about 6 years) the magnetic strength of this information faded to the point that it became unreliable to read and eventually unreadable.

            I did seem to trick one drive into refreshing some of this data, but, the refresh did not last more than a year or so, so, was not a complete refresh.

            I did run into a guy in a coffee shop one day that told me he was able to get the manufacturers setup to rewrite some of this data, I think he said the firmware tracks, but, the hard drive manufacturers cut him out of the loop after a while. I lost track of him.

            From this I guess that if you use your heavy duty eraser on a hard drive, and truly erase everything, it would be destroyed unless you can trigger something to write the manufacturing original information to the hard drive. I find it very difficult to erase floppy disks for instance, it takes an incredibly powerful magnet to erase them, so, you may not have enough juice to fully erase a hard drive. I have a bulk tape eraser that does not touch a floppy disk. It is also possible that all the firmware is now in chips rather than some being on the platter for new drives, given that chips have much higher capacity than in 2000. If that is the case, there is a chance that a drive would be able to re-establish a platter that is fully erased, but, it would take some time to do.

          • cashmemorz

            Thanks for filling in several holes in my amateur understanding of hard drives. My assumption was that the engineering cylinder was all there was to to the user or system data to keep a hard drive running. Now I am better armed to handle friends problems.

            This is not the forum for fixing computers, but as Frank Acland maybe gives us free rein maybe I can ask what to do if someone steals your windows 7 OEM disk, what to do to upgrade to windows 10. An acquaintance of mine took such a computer to Microsoft office in his area and they wanted $50 for a new disk. Doesn’t Microsoft have some way of getting hold of who has the same numbered disk on another computer to confirm the plight of the one who had theirs stolen. $50 bucks isn’t much considering that at this point in time windows 10 is no linger free but costs $100 for an upgrade from an OEM supplied Windows 7,8 for most users. Maybe MS is just meeting this guy halfway so as not to do any sleuthing for his benefit. Still MS must know how to do this. I know one can get the internet address of a computer if one is connected via Skype and other types of overt connection. But a covert type method maybe available?

    • Max Temple

      I honestly don’t think there is one secret. I think that he has changed his formula and recipe multiple times. However, with each change of ingredients there must also be many other changes when it comes to fuel prep, fuel mixing, pre-hyrdogenation, and other issues. For example, he may or may not have used palladium in his pre-hydrogenation of the Lugano fuel. Instead, it is possible that he used other elements as catalysts. Even nano-sized nickel powder mixed in with regular sized nickel powder can act as spillover catalysts. Also, for each type of catalyst, the duration of pre-hydrogenation, heating cycles, temperatures, and other issues would have to be adjusted.

      Just writing up a list of ingredients to mix together and submit to constant hydrogen pressure at a constant temperature is probably not enough to produce results.

      • builditnow

        Max Temple: WOW Max, you might have hit on it. Nano nickel would be missed as relevant by most analyzing reactor fuel, especially if most of it is lodged into crevices, and, it would not have the issue that Palladium has. How small would the nano nickel have to be, and, would there be some technique used (ultra sonic vibration?) to increase the chances of nano particles getting into appropriate crevices in the larger nickel particles.

        I agree with your comments in general. However, remember that it is likely that Rossi left working reactors in IH’s possession, as part of the hand off deal, and it is then likely that IH had several samples of the exact fuel mix to analyze that matched Rossi’s specification. This removes most of the variance, except some pre-processing that Rossi may not have disclosed, such as strategies to load hydrogen or something else. My view is that it’s something staring IH in the face, but, they are not recognizing it as important, and, Rossi is confident / hopeful they won’t notice before he gets his $89 million.

        Remember that Rossi’s goal in his dealings with IH is likely to balance the power dynamic of little Rossi with a few million vs a 2 billion fund that would be suddenly worth 2+ trillion if they announced what they had. So, little Rossi with a few million vs trillions. This power dynamic could easily just wash Rossi away into irrelevancy. So, Rossi is probably holding something back while he goes for the $89 million and also a contract that is blessed by the US federal courts. All this so that he has a chance of being relevant when the public wakes up.

    • Ted-Z

      I think that the Rossi’s secret is in preprocessing of nickel. The preprocessing could be as simple as 48 hours liquid nitrogen exposure, perhaps with some ultrasound and mechanical crushing. It is known in Metallurgy that the cryogenic treatment causes breaking g down the metallic microcrystalline. Under cryogenic conditions, microcavities and sharp edges will form for sure. In a powdered material any kind of chemical analysis will not detect the cryogenic treatment. I belive that the secret of Rossi is in the CRYOGENIC PRETREATMENT. Loading hydrogen several times might be similar to the cryogenic treatment as a result of creating compression and decompression stresses in the nickel crystals. PRO PUBLICO BONO.

      • TVulgaris

        Any change in the micro/nano structure of a metal would be fairly easily detectable at appropriate magnification- that might not be sufficient to identify which specific thermal schedule was employed, but I would think IH would have done the appropriate analyses months ago- maybe that’s why the earlier test reactor is “MIA”.

  • Stephen

    I wonder if this process could be combined with Nickel nano crystal production by electroplating? I think this is optimum at higher temperatures around 50 deg C. And if so if successive layers of highly hydrogenated nano crystals could produced.

    I think I read somewhere that electroplating at high temperature can enhance crystal defects and associated nanocrack production and prolongation if so that could be interesting to consider along with Ed Storms ideas about NAE.

    Could high temperatures electrolysis also be used in the same process to release the hydrogen for initial absorption into the palladium?

    Would these processes be endothermic?

    Just some thoughts.

  • Stephen

    I wonder if this process could be combined with Nickel nano crystal production by electroplating? I think this is optimum at higher temperatures around 50 deg C. And if so if successive layers of highly hydrogenated nano crystals could produced.

    I think I read somewhere but am not sure where that electroplating at high temperature can enhance crystal defects and associated nanocrack production and prolongation if so that could be interesting to consider along with Ed Storms ideas about NAE.

    Could high temperatures electrolysis also be used in the same process to release the hydrogen for initial absorption into the palladium?

    Would these processes be endothermic?

    To me high temperature (steam) electrolysis HTE is quite a good possible candidate for the production at JMP on other side of the wall especially if it could be combined with a process to produce and hydrogenated nickel nano particles or sponges perhaps through electroplating.

    Just some thoughts.

  • Jeannette Johnson

    Anodes of nickel metal hydride batteries store hydrogen in the form of metal hydrides. Perhaps one of these materials would work the same way as palladium.