New Paper By Rossi and Gullström Reports QuarkX Experiment — Calculated COP >22,000

A new paper has been published on arxiv.org titled “Nucleon polarizability and long range strong force from σI=2 meson exchange potential”. The authors listed are Carl-Oscar Gullström and Andrea Rossi; report available here: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.05249.pdf

The physics involved are very complicated, and I will not attempt to critique it. However there is a very interesting experimental report of a device tested in Doral, Florida, which from reading it would have to be the QuarkX that Rossi has been talking about for so long (although the name QuarkX is not used). Below is the section of the paper describing the experiment:

REPORT OF THE EXPERIMENT MADE ON MARCH 7 2017 IN THE LABORATORY OF THE FACTORY OF LEONARDO CORPORATION

Address of the site: 7861 NW 46th St., Doral, Florida, 33139 USA Participants to the experiment: Carl-Oscar Gullström, Dr Andrea Rossi

Description of the apparatus The circuit of the apparatus is made by a power source to supply direct current, a load made a 1 Ohm resistance, a reactor containing two nickel rods with LiAlH4 separated by 1.5 cm of space.

Measurements: During the test a direct current was switched on and off. When the current was switched on a plasma was seen flowing between the two nickel rods. The current was running through the plasma but the plasma was found to be charge neutral from a Van Deer Graaf test. This implies that the plasma has an equal amount of positive ions flying in the direction of the current and negative ions(electrons) in the opposite direction.

Input: 0.105 V of direct current over a 1 Ohm resistance.

Energy output: The wavelength of the radiations out of the reactor has been measured by a spectrometer ( Stellar Net spectrometer 350-1150 nm ) and was integrated with the value of 1100 nm ( 1.1 microns ).

The temperature of the surface of the reactor ( a perfect black body ) has been calculated with Wien’s equation: 2900/λ (micron) = 2900/1.1 = 2636 K

By Boltzman Equation the effect is: W = σ × ǫ × T4 × A
A = 1.0 cm2
ǫ = 0.9
By substitution: W = 5,67 × 1012 × 0.9 × 4.8 × 1013 = 244.9

A simple calculation using Ohm’s Law (.105 V / 1 Ohm = .105 A) gives the input power of 0.01102 Watts (.105 x .105)
To calculate COP: 244.9 (W out) / 0.01102 (W in)
COP = 22,223.23049

If confirmed, this is much more impressive than any previously reported E-Cat test.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Fascinating

    • Anon2012_2014

      Bob,

      This seems like something you can replicate in a week if you get lucky.

      Put LiAlH4 in a quartz tube, with two electrodes at either end. Seal it off. For good measure, start with H2 in the tube to prevent any oxygen from getting in. Someone here can calculate the permeation of H2 through quartz (if any), or O2 in the reverse direction so we can rule out chemical.

      Light it off like any other glow discharge tube with sufficient DC voltage through the current limiting resistor to obviously let it get going. Then try and tune it by lowering the DC voltage to the minimum that appears to sustain the reaction. If it glows brightly at 1100 nm as suggested, you can use any number of methods to estimate the radiation output of the device, or even get fancy and measure the heat conduction out the ends to a fixed temperature water bath on a rod of known thermal conductivity, and calibrated thermal radiation transfer to a surrounding steel pipe (that you can calibrate with a resistance heater). That’s the experiment — your done.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Mathieu Valat is in the best position to do this since this apparatus would fit in the MFMPs mass flow calorimeter. In this way we would not have to calculate the energy – it would be captured to the milliwatt.

        What we would really need is some kind of clear parameters from Rossi. Since this paper has been put out – he must certainly have applied for a patent and so, really, he needs to publish a complete how-to now.

        Of course in any closed loop system, as Piantelli told us “COP is meaningless”. What is important is can this be easily made into a practical energy delivery system – well, sure this could be a super efficient heater right off the bat – currently I am using 500W to produce about that in heat in one of my colder rooms – I’d much prefer 2 of these!

  • Bob Greenyer

    Fascinating

    • Anon2012_2014

      Bob,

      This seems like something you can replicate in a week if you get lucky.

      Put LiAlH4 in a quartz tube, with two electrodes at either end. Seal it off. For good measure, start with H2 in the tube to prevent any oxygen from getting in. Someone here can calculate the permeation of H2 through quartz (if any), or O2 in the reverse direction so we can rule out chemical.

      Light it off like any other glow discharge tube with sufficient DC voltage through the current limiting resistor to obviously let it get going. Then try and tune it by lowering the DC voltage to the minimum that appears to sustain the reaction. If it glows brightly at 1100 nm as suggested, you can use any number of methods to estimate the radiation output of the device, or even get fancy and measure the heat conduction out the ends to a fixed temperature water bath on a rod of known thermal conductivity, and calibrated thermal radiation transfer to a surrounding steel pipe (that you can calibrate with a resistance heater). That’s the experiment — your done.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Mathieu Valat is in the best position to do this since this apparatus would fit in the MFMPs mass flow calorimeter. In this way we would not have to calculate the energy – it would be captured to the milliwatt.

        What we would really need is some kind of clear parameters from Rossi. Since this paper has been put out – he must certainly have applied for a patent and so, really, he needs to publish a complete how-to now.

        Of course in any closed loop system, as Piantelli told us “COP is meaningless”. What is important is can this be easily made into a practical energy delivery system – well, sure this could be a super efficient heater right off the bat – currently I am using 500W to produce about that in heat in one of my colder rooms – I’d much prefer 2 of these!

  • peacelovewoodstock

    If only they had had impartial observers present.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Shirley you jest!

      • roseland67

        Okay,
        I’ll say it,

        “I’m not and don’t call me Shirley”

      • Thor

        I’m not jesting, and don’t call me Shirley 😉

  • peacelovewoodstock

    If only they had had impartial observers present.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Shirley you jest!

      • roseland67

        Okay,
        I’ll say it,

        “I’m not and don’t call me Shirley”

      • Thor

        I’m not jesting, and don’t call me Shirley 😉

  • Bicke Dutte

    Oh boy here we go

  • Bicke Dutte

    Oh boy here we go

  • Steve D

    2014 Rossi was very impressed with Gullström’s paper and Frank arranged a contact.

    Frank Acland:
    Please extend to Carl-Oscar Gullstrom my congratulations for his very intelligent paper. We are going through them with attention.
    If Carl-Oscar Gullstrom contacts me, we can have an exchange of opinion.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    I will contact Mr. Gullström so he can get in touch with Andrea Rossi.

    Well done Frank for arranging this meeting of minds.

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/10/29/rossi-congratulates-carl-oscar-gullstrom-on-theoretical-lenr-paper/

  • Steve D

    2014 Rossi was very impressed with Gullström’s paper and Frank arranged a contact.

    Frank Acland:
    Please extend to Carl-Oscar Gullstrom my congratulations for his very intelligent paper. We are going through them with attention.
    If Carl-Oscar Gullstrom contacts me, we can have an exchange of opinion.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    I will contact Mr. Gullström so he can get in touch with Andrea Rossi.

    Well done Frank for arranging this meeting of minds.

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/10/29/rossi-congratulates-carl-oscar-gullstrom-on-theoretical-lenr-paper/

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    Seems like a super efficient process to me.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    Seems like a super efficient process to me.

  • Axil Axil

    The important point about the nature of the SPECIAL LENR active magnetic field is “This means that only the center of an magnetic quadrupole is relevant where there is no dipole field.”

    No dipole field means a monopole field or at least a anisotropic magnetic field where magnetic field lines are disconnected from their dipole partner. This type of magnetic field causes the quarks in a nucleon to be constrained along these discontiguous magnetic field lines so that the quarks in a nucleon line up linearly along those field lines thus disrupting the strong force inside the nucleons. Maybe because of this quark constraint, the CP symmetry of the strong force becomes non zero and nucleon decay occurs. Rossi have also said in his blog that muons have not been detected in his reaction. But if nucleons are being disrupted, muons are a sure sign of it.

    Rossi has stated in his blog that monopoles do not exist. He and his partner have now come up with a substitute theory where no dipole magnetic field lines apply.

    IMHO, transferring nucleon energy down a quadrupole magnetic field or a electric field is impossible because such a field is not point to point. But a monopole field line will take energy away from the nucleons very nicely when the quarks in that nucleon are constrained linearly.

    We know from experiment that anisotropic magnetic field lines produce LENR effects so the quadrupole magnetic field might be a special case of a more general anisotropic magnetic field line condition.

  • Axil Axil

    The important point about the nature of the SPECIAL LENR active magnetic field is “This means that only the center of an magnetic quadrupole is relevant where there is no dipole field.”

    No dipole field means a monopole field or at least a anisotropic magnetic field where magnetic field lines are disconnected from their dipole partner. This type of magnetic field causes the quarks in a nucleon to be constrained along these discontiguous magnetic field lines so that the quarks in a nucleon line up linearly along those field lines thus disrupting the strong force inside the nucleons. Maybe because of this quark constraint, the CP symmetry of the strong force becomes non zero and nucleon decay occurs. Rossi have also said in his blog that muons have not been detected in his reaction. But if nucleons are being disrupted, muons are a sure sign of it.

    Rossi has stated in his blog that monopoles do not exist. He and his partner have now come up with a substitute theory where no dipole magnetic field lines apply.

    IMHO, transferring nucleon energy down a quadrupole magnetic field or a electric field is impossible because such a field is not point to point. But a monopole field line will take energy away from the nucleons very nicely when the quarks in that nucleon are constrained linearly.

    We know from experiment that anisotropic magnetic field lines produce LENR effects so the quadrupole magnetic field might be a special case of a more general anisotropic magnetic field line condition.

  • jimbo92107

    What a fabulous result. I can hardly wait until it is confirmed by neutral third parties.

    • Bob Greenyer

      We have the perfect tool – come on Rossi, lift the veil

    • MorganMck

      Rossi could have done this a hundred times by now but has chosen not to. He does not give us the recipe here it is just another Rossi tease.

  • SG

    “The circuit of the apparatus is made by a power source to supply direct
    current, a load made a 1 Ohm resistance, a reactor containing two nickel
    rods with LiAlH4 separated by 1.5 cm of space.”

    The DC power source doesn’t surprise me as Rossi has described using DC in his patents.

    What we need to decipher is: “a reactor containing two nickel rods with LiAlH4 separated by 1.5 cm of space.”

    What does this mean specifically? Is the LiAlH4 put in-between the two rods? Are the two rods parallel to each other or end-to-end? Do we have a drawing of the configuration? Time to gear up the replication attempts!

    • roseland67

      The dc power source can be a battery with fixed energy and power density making any “wiring shenanigans” a mute point.
      Run the test long enough to drain the battery, measure energy output, compare to battery.

    • US_Citizen71

      What do you think they used to house the reactor in? 2636 K is almost 300 K beyond the melting point of alumina. I guess we now know what Rossi meant about needing new materials.

      • Max Temple

        My guess as has been speculated is Quartz. Me356 used Quartz for his glow discharge tests.

        • US_Citizen71

          I don’t think it is quartz, it melts at an even lower 1986 K. Carbon maybe?

          • Bob Greenyer

            would account for the ‘perfect black body” comment

      • Axil Axil

        The assumption that the light produced by the reaction is produced by a black body radiator could be false. The reaction could be producing light directly from the reaction as one of the various energy output formats.

        • US_Citizen71

          I assume that the reaction likely makes light but the paper states “The temperature of the surface of the reactor ( a perfect black body ) has been calculated with Wien’s equation: 2900/λ (micron) = 2900/1.1 = 2636 K”

          • Axil Axil

            At high temperatures, alumina is near transparent. If the fuel is producing light on its own, the black body temperature assumption coming from the temperature of alumina is not valid.

            Remember how much controversy was engendered in the Lugano test results cause by the transparency of alumina at high temperatures.

          • Omega Z

            Who says Rossi used alumina. He had problems with burn out and had to create a new material. We have no idea what that is.

          • Axil Axil

            If Rossi created a new structural material, it would have been in his patent update. No such material is documented.

            Rossi patent update

            https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/docservicepdf_pct/id00000

          • Omega Z

            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=184#comment-1246464

            Filiberto Drawec November 17, 2016

            Dr Andrea Rossi:
            The material the quarkx is made with is in commerce or you had to invent it?

            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=184#comment-1246467

            Andrea Rossi November 17, 2016

            Filiberto Drawec:
            We had to invent it. No commercial materials could stand the temperatures we reach.
            Warm Regards, A.R.

          • SG
          • Andreas Moraitis

            AR has used various methods to determine the output of the QX, with comparable results (that’s at least what he said).

          • Bob Greenyer

            What Axil said

          • Leonard Weinstein

            I never understood why the Lugano reactor was not painted with high temperature black paint. It can take the quoted temperatures, and would give a much higher emissivity (near black body). This would have eliminated the uncertainty and increased output radiation, thus power possible.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The best paint we could find degraded at 1000ºC and above pretty quickly

        • Anon2012_2014

          Correct, like the blue part vs. the yellow part of a flame as different electron shell energy states collapse emitting their characteristic energy.

          However, some of it is likely black body.

    • GordonDocherty

      Just a thought, but this is beginning to sound a bit like the SunCell

      • Bob Greenyer

        Don’t think so.

      • Max Temple

        This has nothing to do with the SunCell and it is far, far better.

        First of all, it is much smaller than even the portable SunCell units that have been theorized. Secondly, it has far few parts and isn’t a Rube Goldberg device. Third, this is something with a little work should be fairly easily replicated.

        • Omega Z

          Just when some thought the SunCell would overshadow the E-cat, Rossi has something new. Anyway, 1 size fits all is convient, but not always the best option.

          Personally, I would like to see multiple technologies without monopolies that encourage or force competition that leads to the best economics for the consumer.

          Obviously, initial prices will be high as there are 100’s of Billions of dollars that need invested and returned (ROI). However, competition will be the driving factor.

        • GordonDocherty

          Yep, clearly not the SunCell – but, the use of a low voltage, high current arc to stimulate:

          a) the use of DC, not AC
          b) the dissociation of Di-atomic hydrogen into Mon-atomic hydrogen
          c) intense e.m. “energy” generation
          d) the creation of a dusty hot electron-rich plasma (circa 3000K)

          does look to be a common approach in both cases, albeit in different geometries (something, I believe is important to HOW the energy and plasma constituents – protons and electrons – are processed and harvested (in Rossi’s case, Casimir Cavities again come to mind)

          So, clearly a valid approach – and one that reaches all the way back to the operation of the atomic hydrogen welding torch, which shared the ability to dissociate hydrogen and impart energy to the Mon-atomic hydrogen in a way that was peculiar to hydrogen in the presence of metal (steel) – not only could the torch “flame” weld steel, it was also claimed to be “cold to the touch” (that is, if the welder accidentally moved the flame across their skin), strongly suggesting the need for a current path from the arc through the hydrogen to the metal – effectively a weak dusty plasma.

          So, in summary, I believe that what Rossi now has is extremely viable – and, again, very safe in operation. So, yes, it is well worth pursuing – and, as the SunCell moves into production, any doubters on this new development from Mr. Rossi can be referenced to the characteristics (shared with the SunCell) above.

    • Bob Greenyer

      We’d love to, but as you can se from your own comment – too many unknowns. Mathieu is in the perfect position to test this to milliwatt accuracy with the MFMP MFC you all helped fund without having to ‘calculate’ the input and output energies.

      Step up Rossi

  • SG

    “The circuit of the apparatus is made by a power source to supply direct
    current, a load made a 1 Ohm resistance, a reactor containing two nickel
    rods with LiAlH4 separated by 1.5 cm of space.”

    The DC power source doesn’t surprise me as Rossi has described using DC in his patents.

    What we need to decipher is: “a reactor containing two nickel rods with LiAlH4 separated by 1.5 cm of space.”

    What does this mean specifically? Is the LiAlH4 put in-between the two rods? Are the two rods parallel to each other or end-to-end? Do we have a drawing of the configuration? Time to gear up the replication attempts!

    • roseland67

      The dc power source can be a battery with fixed energy and power density making any “wiring shenanigans” a mute point.
      Run the test long enough to drain the battery, measure energy output, compare to battery.

    • US_Citizen71

      What do you think they used to house the reactor in? 2636 K is almost 300 K beyond the melting point of alumina. I guess we now know what Rossi meant about needing new materials.

      • Max Temple

        My guess as has been speculated is Quartz. Me356 used Quartz for his glow discharge tests.

        • US_Citizen71

          I don’t think it is quartz, it melts at an even lower 1986 K. Carbon maybe?

          • Bob Greenyer

            would account for the ‘perfect black body” comment

      • Axil Axil

        The assumption that the light produced by the reaction is produced by a black body radiator could be false. The reaction could be producing light directly from the reaction as one of the various energy output formats.

        • US_Citizen71

          I assume that the reaction likely makes light but the paper states “The temperature of the surface of the reactor ( a perfect black body ) has been calculated with Wien’s equation: 2900/λ (micron) = 2900/1.1 = 2636 K”

          • Axil Axil

            At high temperatures, alumina is near transparent. If the fuel is producing light on its own, the black body temperature assumption coming from the temperature of alumina is not valid.

            Remember how much controversy was engendered in the Lugano test results caused by the transparency of alumina at high temperatures.

          • Omega Z

            Who says Rossi used alumina. He had problems with burn out and had to create a new material. We have no idea what that is.

          • Axil Axil

            If Rossi created a new structural material, it would have been in his patent update. No such material is documented.

            Rossi patent update

            https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/docservicepdf_pct/id00000032278621/PDOC/WO2016018851.pdf

          • Omega Z

            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=184#comment-1246464

            Filiberto Drawec November 17, 2016

            Dr Andrea Rossi:
            The material the quarkx is made with is in commerce or you had to invent it?

            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=184#comment-1246467

            Andrea Rossi November 17, 2016

            Filiberto Drawec:
            We had to invent it. No commercial materials could stand the temperatures we reach.
            Warm Regards, A.R.

          • SG
          • Andreas Moraitis

            AR has used various methods to determine the output of the QX, with comparable results (that’s at least what he said).

          • Bob Greenyer

            What Axil said

          • Leonard Weinstein

            I never understood why the Lugano reactor was not painted with high temperature black paint. It can take the quoted temperatures, and would give a much higher emissivity (near black body). This would have eliminated the uncertainty and increased output radiation, thus power possible.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The best paint we could find degraded at 1000ºC and above pretty quickly

        • Anon2012_2014

          Correct, like the blue part vs. the yellow part of a flame as different electron shell energy states collapse emitting their characteristic energy.

          However, some of it is likely black body.

    • GordonDocherty

      Just a thought, but this is beginning to sound a bit like the SunCell

      • Bob Greenyer

        Don’t think so.

      • Horshu

        I had a bit of a thought myself, but just from Rossi’s sudden(?) use of perfect black-body reactors. I don’t recall Rossi ever mentioning them, but BLP’s device claims to use it, and now Rossi’s talking about it in his paper. Reminds me of “5 sigma” suddenly being a thing for Rossi shortly after the LHC reports 5 sigma on the Higgs and someone asks Rossi about using it. Didn’t seem like it really applied to his work (the sample reqs are more geared for particle statistics), but it just becomes super-important and a topic of frequent conversation. It has me skeptical of Rossi, at it seems like he picks up terms from reader questions and then starts incorporating them into his papers.

        • Omega Z

          Rossi used the term “5 sigma” long before the Higgs and was in terms of the effect being real.

          However, I think Rossi uses it now most in the terms of a reliable device. Think Motorola and General Electric

          Six Sigma

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Sigma

          • Horshu

            5 sigma and Six Sigma are not related…I’m only speaking of the former, which is a measure of statistical certainty (basically, it’s 99.9999% certainty, but you need millions of samples to achieve that, which is why is shows up in particle physics)

            EDIT: Also, my issue with 5 sigma and Rossi is that I never heard him mention it until he was asked about it, at which point, he mentioned it a LOT, and it became a milestone that he was aiming for. But it didn’t make sense to me, as I don’t see what he’s going to sample enough to get 5 sigma…or even why he’d bother, as the macro world ends to have 100% certainties (no superpositions, no relativistic speeds/distortions); he’s either 100% sure he can start the process, or he’s never going to be able to run it enough times to hit 5 sigma certainty that he can). If he starts talking about perfect black bodies a lot from now on, that’ll be a tell to me.

          • Omega Z

            I do not have time to track it down. But as I said, Rossi used the term “Sigma 5” several years ago prior to the Lugano test.

            They did not have millions of samples to achieve Sigma 5 for the Higgs. Nor do you need millions of samples. It is done statistically using data sets.
            —————————————————————–
            Dear Andrea,

            When you speak of 5 sigma, are you using that in terms such as this…

            Continuous efforts to achieve stable and predictable process results (e.g. by reducing process variation)
            —————————————————————–
            Substantially, the nutshell is that, but through the math of statistic calculations.

            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • Horshu

            I’m curious how many samples you think the LHC has…my understanding is that they have on the order of 600+ million collisions *per run* (the collision is the data sample – http://lhc-machine-outreach.web.cern.ch/lhc-machine-outreach/collisions.htm). You can cull some of those out for whatever purposes you want, but you’re still looking at millions of collisions.

            BTW: I won’t reply further…I really hate getting into long-winded semantic Internet arguments. The LHC is really tangential to my point, anyway; it’s a point about statistics.

      • Max Temple

        This has nothing to do with the SunCell and it is far, far better.

        First of all, it is much smaller than even the portable SunCell units that have been theorized. Secondly, it has far few parts and isn’t a Rube Goldberg device. Third, this is something with a little work should be fairly easily replicated.

        • Omega Z

          Just when some thought the SunCell would overshadow the E-cat, Rossi has something new. Anyway, 1 size fits all is convient, but not always the best option.

          Personally, I would like to see multiple technologies without monopolies that encourage or force competition that leads to the best economics for the consumer.

          Obviously, initial prices will be high as there are 100’s of Billions of dollars that need invested and returned (ROI). However, competition will be the driving factor.

          • orsobubu

            Personally, I would like to see multiple technologies without monopolies
            that encourage or force socialist worldwide international cooperation that leads to the best economics for mankind.

          • Omega Z

            Socialism is a race to the bottom.

            Someone will always produce less then you so that you must share your’s with them. Thus enslaving you to them. Overtime(a matter of a few years), there will be less and less per person.

            Note that people today benefit more then ever while being less productive then ever. Thanks to technology. However, everyone still wants even more while doing even less.

            Perhaps in time, we will create a matrix and plug everyone in. They can have their hearts desire while their body decays away in a life support module.

        • GordonDocherty

          Yep, clearly not the SunCell – but, the use of a low voltage, high current arc to stimulate:

          a) the use of DC, not AC
          b) the dissociation of Di-atomic hydrogen into Mon-atomic hydrogen
          c) intense e.m. “energy” generation
          d) the creation of a dusty hot electron-rich plasma (circa 3000K)

          does look to be a common approach in both cases, albeit in different geometries (something, I believe is important to HOW the energy and plasma constituents – protons and electrons – are processed and harvested (in Rossi’s case, Casimir Cavities again come to mind)

          So, clearly a valid approach – and one that reaches all the way back to the operation of the atomic hydrogen welding torch, which shared the ability to dissociate hydrogen and impart energy to the Mon-atomic hydrogen in a way that was peculiar to hydrogen in the presence of metal (steel) – not only could the torch “flame” weld steel, it was also claimed to be “cold to the touch” (that is, if the welder accidentally moved the flame across their skin), strongly suggesting the need for a current path from the arc through the hydrogen to the metal – effectively a weak dusty plasma.

          So, in summary, I believe that what Rossi now has is extremely viable – and, again, very safe in operation. So, yes, it is well worth pursuing – and, as the SunCell moves into production, any doubters on this new development from Mr. Rossi can be referenced to the characteristics (shared with the SunCell) above.

    • Bob Greenyer

      We’d love to, but as you can se from your own comment – too many unknowns. Mathieu is in the perfect position to test this to milliwatt accuracy with the MFMP MFC you all helped fund without having to ‘calculate’ the input and output energies.

      Step up Rossi

  • Max Temple

    So where does the manganese come from?

    Is this a previously unmentioned element of the fuel?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese

  • Max Temple

    So where does the manganese come from?

    Is this a previously unmentioned element of the fuel?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese

  • bfast

    0.1 volt producing a “plasma” over a 1.5 cm gap. Pretty impressive!

    • Anon2012_2014

      Remember that the fire from an ordinary match is also plasma. Being able to maintain 250 watts of thermal output in Rossi’s fire indefinitely beyond any chemical interaction is impressive. I’m thinking the COP from the undefined electrical power being supplied across the plasma (not the resistor) likely exceeds 50, so it is impressive. Want to see more data.

  • bfast

    0.1 volt producing a “plasma” over a 1.5 cm gap. Pretty impressive!

    • Anon2012_2014

      Remember that the fire from an ordinary match is also plasma. Being able to maintain 250 watts of thermal output in Rossi’s fire indefinitely beyond any chemical interaction is impressive. I’m thinking the COP from the undefined electrical power being supplied across the plasma (not the resistor) likely exceeds 50, so it is impressive. Want to see more data.

  • Anon2012_2014

    The experimental description is incomplete, and the statement

    “Input: 0.105 V of direct current over a 1 Ohm resistance”

    is inconsistent, as earlier they said that a LiAlH4 load that somehow generates a plasma is being generated with only 100 mA.

    I suggest that the current needed to create a plasma is higher than 100 mA and further that the initial resistance of the LiAlH4 is >>1 Ohms. This paper,

    The Thermal Decomposition of Lithium Aluminium Hydride
    W. E. Garner and E. W. Haycock
    Proceedings of the Royal Society of London. Series A, Mathematical and Physical Sciences
    Vol. 211, No. 1106 (Mar. 6, 1952), pp. 335-351

    suggests that the resistance is of the order of 10^8 ohms for a 5 mm sample (see Table 5, page 346), and the Doral experiment had a 15 mm sample length. Therefore, they need to do something to get plasma going.

    This suggests that the 1 ohm load is a “current sensing resistor” in series with the LiAlH4 sample, which further suggests that the power applied to get the reaction started (perhaps for only a few microseconds) is 10^7 watts, i.e. a spark. This makes more sense to me for “lighting off” the plasma. Once the plasma has formed, conduction will be closer to free, and it is possible that the small 100 mA current can sustain the plasma, particularly if LENR is occuring. But exactly the plasma resistance is has not been defined or measured in the paper’s experimental description. For comparison, a typical neon glow discharge plasma lamp might start at 90 volts and then be maintained with 10 to 20 volts less.

    Bottom line is that I doubt the 22K COP implied from V^2/R power input using 1 ohm as the input. I’d like to see more data rather than guess how much power is actually being applied to the LiAlH4 sample to maintain the plasma.

    But, overall, I like the experiment, particularly the power output estimate based upon black body color, and I suggest that others try and replicate it (and publish their full schematic and input data) as it seems fairly simple to build. Even if the emissivity of the device is significantly lower, say 5%, it seems to be generating a lot of thermal radiation power that is relatively easy to measure. It might be a fast and cheap way of replicating an LENR effect.

    • Axil Axil

      “The current was running through the plasma but the plasma was found to be charge neutral from a Van Deer Graaf test.”

      What is a Van Deer Graaf test?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Well – it will create a strong electrostatic field.

      • Anon2012_2014

        They must have exposed the plasma to a large DC electric field by moving a conductor attached to the high voltage end of the Van Deer Graaf generator near the plasma tube and noting that the plasma (as seen by the light energy emitted) did not move. I would normally expect even in a neutral plasma the electrons would move one way and the positive charge carriers the other way — but I haven’t played with this stuff for a long time.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Let’s get the detail please Rossi, and we’ll run it in the made-to-measure MFMP mass flow calorimeter that is able to see milliwatts and is back and ready to test in France.

      http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/mfmp-blog/542-one-year-off-update

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/955c214ef685efd66c758f71984f71bb01c0face73d25872de4ead51166db298.jpg

      • Max Temple

        The truth is we’ll never get all the details from Rossi — never. We’ve never gotten this in the past and we won’t get this in the future. I think one reason is that he knows all of these setups — including the older E-Cats — are fundamentally simple. The only tricky part is doing the tedious and boring and repetitive fuel processing. To make one of these systems work, you may have to test out twenty different sequences and durations of fuel processing. Basically, I get the feeling that he wants us to at least work 1/1000th as hard as he has. This is why Me356 made progress. He has been willing to do extensive WORK while most other people are incapable (for legitimate reasons such as family or day jobs) or unwilling.

        If we could get two people in a lab to work together for a month on cracking fuel processing, we could find out how to optimize the nickel used in these systems. From there, applying EM stimulation would be relatively easy.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Suhas got similar results from scratch in 18 months.

        • Bob Greenyer

          One important detail and you might just shoot blanks.

          Then you have to make the choice to you try and demonstrate the New Fire with people that do not hold back, or guess at something.

        • LION

          This year will change everything, clarity is coming, I assure you, Alan at Lookingforheat.com will be publishing some things for me in the coming weeks, of course in the mean time continue to work your socks off.

  • Anon2012_2014

    The experimental description is incomplete, and the statement

    “Input: 0.105 V of direct current over a 1 Ohm resistance”

    is inconsistent, as earlier they said that a LiAlH4 load that somehow generates a plasma is being generated with only 100 mA.

    I suggest that the current needed to create a plasma is higher than 100 mA and further that the initial resistance of the LiAlH4 is >>1 Ohms. This paper,

    The Thermal Decomposition of Lithium Aluminium Hydride
    W. E. Garner and E. W. Haycock
    Proceedings of the Royal Society of London. Series A, Mathematical and Physical Sciences
    Vol. 211, No. 1106 (Mar. 6, 1952), pp. 335-351

    suggests that the resistance is of the order of 10^8 ohms for a 5 mm sample (see Table 5, page 346), and the Doral experiment had a 15 mm sample length. Therefore, they need to do something to get plasma going.

    This suggests that the 1 ohm load is a “current sensing resistor” in series with the LiAlH4 sample, which further suggests that the power applied to get the reaction started (perhaps for only a few microseconds) is 10^7 watts, i.e. a spark. This makes more sense to me for “lighting off” the plasma. Once the plasma has formed, conduction will be closer to free, and it is possible that the small 100 mA current can sustain the plasma, particularly if LENR is occuring. But exactly the plasma resistance is has not been defined or measured in the paper’s experimental description. For comparison, a typical neon glow discharge plasma lamp might start at 90 volts and then be maintained with 10 to 20 volts less.

    Bottom line is that I doubt the 22K COP implied from V^2/R power input using 1 ohm as the input. I’d like to see more data rather than guess how much power is actually being applied to the LiAlH4 sample to maintain the plasma.

    But, overall, I like the experiment, particularly the power output estimate based upon black body color, and I suggest that others try and replicate it (and publish their full schematic and input data) as it seems fairly simple to build. Even if the emissivity of the device is significantly lower, say 5%, it seems to be generating a lot of thermal radiation power that is relatively easy to measure. It might be a fast and cheap way of replicating an LENR effect.

    • Axil Axil

      “The current was running through the plasma but the plasma was found to be charge neutral from a Van Deer Graaf test.”

      What is a Van Deer Graaf test?

      • Paul Harmans

        The principle is based on the belt-charged electrostatic high voltage source as invented in 1931 by Robert Jemison Van de Graaff at Princeton in the USA. This machine in particular was built by High Voltage Engineering Company in Burlington, Massachusetts, USA in 1958 as an electron accelerator for 1 mA direct current 3 MeV beam irradiation.

        http://www.tnw.tudelft.nl/en/about-faculty/departments/chemical-engineering/research/opto-electronic-materials/facilities/van-de-graaff-accelerator/

      • Bob Greenyer

        Well – it will creates a strong electrostatic field.

      • Anon2012_2014

        They must have exposed the plasma to a large DC electric field by moving a conductor attached to the high voltage end of the Van Deer Graaf generator near the plasma tube and noting that the plasma (as seen by the light energy emitted) did not move. I would normally expect even in a neutral plasma the electrons would move one way and the positive charge carriers the other way — but I haven’t played with this stuff for a long time.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Let’s get the detail please Rossi, and we’ll run it in the made-to-measure MFMP mass flow calorimeter that is able to see milliwatts and is back and ready to test in France.

      http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/mfmp-blog/542-one-year-off-update

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/955c214ef685efd66c758f71984f71bb01c0face73d25872de4ead51166db298.jpg

      • Max Temple

        The truth is we’ll never get all the details from Rossi — never. We’ve never gotten this in the past and we won’t get this in the future. I think one reason is that he knows all of these setups — including the older E-Cats — are fundamentally simple. The only tricky part is doing the tedious and boring and repetitive fuel processing. To make one of these systems work, you may have to test out twenty different sequences and durations of fuel processing. Basically, I get the feeling that he wants us to at least work 1/1000th as hard as he has. This is why Me356 made progress. He has been willing to do extensive WORK while most other people are incapable (for legitimate reasons such as family or day jobs) or unwilling.

        If we could get two people in a lab to work together for a month on cracking fuel processing, we could find out how to optimize the nickel used in these systems. From there, applying EM stimulation would be relatively easy.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Suhas got similar results from scratch in 18 months.

        • Bob Greenyer

          One important detail and you might just shoot blanks.

          Then you have to make the choice to you try and demonstrate the New Fire with people that do not hold back, or guess at something.

        • LION

          This year will change everything, clarity is coming, I assure you, Alan at Lookingforheat.com will be publishing some things for me in the coming weeks, of course in the mean time continue to work your socks off.

  • radvar

    If true then the eventual miniaturization/amplification improvements on LENR have come much earlier than anticipated.

    • jaman73

      I think it is Van de Graaff.

      • Axil Axil

        It is conjectured that protons and neutrons can move from nucleus to nucleus under the influence of subatomic particles, specifically pions.

        One idea that is not found in the conjecture is fusion as a consequence of coulomb barrier penetration. In this rejection of fusion as a major reaction in LENR, we are making progress. To identify how the strong and weak force produce LENR reaction results under the influence of unusual magnetic effects is valid in principle if not in detail.

        • Max Temple

          Regardless if it is correct or not, I feel a deep resonance with the theme of this paper: placing hydrogen or other elements between internal pockets, cavities, defects, or grain boundaries in order to be exposed to special geometric arrangements of magnetic fields.

          • Axil Axil

            My feeling is that the elements in the fuel are all vaporized. The LENR reaction is occurring in the plasma where there is no structure to impose the magnetic fields. But all plasmas are dirty at the edges where the cool surfaces of the containment produces nanoparticles from condensing vapor in the vaporized fuel. It is around these nanoparticles in their points of contact that magnetic fields can form and maybe reach out at a distance to produce the LENR reaction.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Magnetics yes.

          What can create massive magnetic fields?

          The answer has been there a long time.

    • Bob Greenyer

      They have come when they are defined in a way so as to be able to be replicated, Rossi has a window to deliver that.

  • jaman73

    I think it is Van de Graaff.

  • The picture is slowly starting to come into focus.

    Sure this can still all be some toxic brew of delusion, greed, ego and fraud. But if so, add another Uppsala physics professor to the supposedly duped/part of the conspiracy list. One not warned away by his fellow burned Uppsala colleagues… one unable to competently measure a COP of 22k (ha)… or one throwing his lot in with a conspiratorial crew at a late date with a rather radical theory paper, jeopardizing a promising career that’s just getting started.

    That picture is so blurry it looks like a watercolor painted by a blind man.

    The other picture is more interesting. What was going on the past year and a half? THE ONE MEGAWATT PLANT TEST you scream! THE GPT for $89M!

    No.

    Yes, but no. What was going on was continued R&D arriving at the flat out incredible QuarkX generation of the E-Cat outside the prying eyes of Industrial Heat and with another as yet unnamed partner. What was going on was laying the groundwork for IP divorce via the legal system from Industrial Heat.

    When IH failed to commercialize the E-Cat and instead concentrated on collecting IP, stalled regarding any GPT that would lead to final payment and sharing and, at least in Rossi’s mind, WRONGLY sharing his E-Cat IP… he decided to go in a different direction. This has been his pattern of behavior — it should not surprise us.

    The plan. Move the plant to Florida away from prying eyes, perform a nominal GPT test with a tightly controlled customer… make it look real enough. Run the plant for real or not… perhaps at reduced COP but still over unity, perhaps at the high COP reported. Its purpose was two-fold: provide cover for continuing R&D on the rapidly evolving and remarkable Quark X and provide a plausible basis for suing IH because he was sure they would not pay the $89M.

    But he doesn’t care about the $89M. Well not much anyway. With an invaluable QuarkX in his pocket and another partner on his side, he doesn’t really need the money and he doesn’t need their take-it-slow, collect-all-the-IP approach. But what he does need was to get out from under the onerous license agreement with IH. He had to force a parting of the ways, with IH holding no rights to the new generation of E-Cat, and used the GPT in the agreement to try to make it happen.

    His comments about the legal proceedings have been fairly optimistic and one must wonder why when the touted customer looks all but proven fake, the data has holes and the plant itself raises many as yet unanswered questions. He is far away from that $89M. Far far away. But he has scored points as well and I believe he thinks he has enough to void the agreement. Enough to indicate that IH did not operate in good faith in some ways and that any settlement at this point would include IH relinquishing rights over the IP (which they consider worthless) even if he has to pay back the $11.5M. Enough that if it went to trial, the most likely outcome would be that the agreement had been breached on both sides. Perfect! He doesn’t need the money and he doesn’t want the relationship.

    Is this the Hydrofusion deception on a larger scale? We’ve seen that Rossi can be quite deceptive when it suits his purposes. Has this been so confounding because it was meant to be?

    Why will the Quark introduction take place after the trial is over (if it gets that far)? Because he needs to be clear of any IP entanglements.

    This is the picture now coming into focus. It will be hard for many to see, at least initially. And it still may be an illusion of the world’s greatest illusionist. But it is quite a picture.

    Quite. A. Picture.

    • Omega Z

      Woodford trusts claimed early on that this is just an IP war seen in many VC operations.

      Mats Lewan’s claim that Rossi offered to return IH/Darden his $11.5 Million back in return for relinquishing all claims on Rossi’s IP sounds even more credible. Rossi does not need IH/Dardens take it slow and buy up all available IP’s of others.

      • Bob Greenyer

        The good thing is that neither me356 or Suhas use LiAlH4 or Lithium. As per my technical call yesterday – the LiOH was a late addition and didn’t make a significant difference.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      I guess there could have been a mixture of intentional and unintentional components. If so, it will be very difficult to separate them. A lot of work for Mats L with regard to the – hopefully pending – next edition of his book.

  • The picture is slowly starting to come into focus.

    Sure this can still all be some toxic brew of delusion, greed, ego and fraud. But if so, add another Uppsala physics professor (EDIT: actually still a Doctoral student) to the supposedly duped/part of the conspiracy list. One not warned away by his fellow burned Uppsala colleagues… one unable to competently measure a COP of 22k (ha)… or one throwing his lot in with a conspiratorial crew at a late date with a rather radical theory paper, jeopardizing a promising career that’s just getting started.

    That picture is so blurry it looks like a watercolor painted by a blind man.

    The other picture is more interesting. What was going on the past year and a half? THE ONE MEGAWATT PLANT TEST you scream! THE GPT for $89M!

    No.

    Yes, but no. What was going on was continued R&D arriving at the flat out incredible QuarkX generation of the E-Cat outside the prying eyes of Industrial Heat and with another as yet unnamed partner. What was going on was laying the groundwork for IP divorce via the legal system from Industrial Heat.

    When IH failed to commercialize the E-Cat and instead concentrated on collecting IP, stalled regarding any GPT that would lead to final payment and sharing and, at least in Rossi’s mind, WRONGLY sharing his E-Cat IP… he decided to go in a different direction. This has been his pattern of behavior — it should not surprise us.

    The plan. Move the plant to Florida away from prying eyes, perform a nominal GPT test with a tightly controlled customer… make it look real enough. Run the plant for real or not… perhaps at reduced COP but still over unity, perhaps at the high COP reported. Its purpose was two-fold: provide cover for continuing R&D on the rapidly evolving and remarkable Quark X and provide a plausible basis for suing IH because he was sure they would not pay the $89M.

    But he doesn’t care about the $89M. Well not much anyway. With an invaluable QuarkX in his pocket and another partner on his side, he doesn’t really need the money and he doesn’t need their take-it-slow, collect-all-the-IP approach. But what he does need is to get out from under the onerous license agreement with IH. He had to force a parting of the ways, with IH holding no rights to the new generation of E-Cat, and used the GPT in the agreement to try to make it happen.

    His comments about the legal proceedings have been fairly optimistic and one must wonder why when the touted customer looks all but proven fake, the data has holes and the plant itself raises many as yet unanswered questions. He is far away from that $89M. Far far away. But he has scored points as well and I believe he thinks he has enough to void the agreement. Enough to indicate that IH did not operate in good faith in some ways and that any settlement at this point would include IH relinquishing rights over the IP (which they consider worthless) even if he has to pay back the $11.5M. Enough that if it went to trial, the most likely outcome would be that the agreement had been breached on both sides. Perfect! He doesn’t need the money and he doesn’t want the relationship.

    Is this the Hydrofusion deception on a larger scale? We’ve seen that Rossi can be quite deceptive when it suits his purposes. Has this been so confounding because it was meant to be?

    Why will the Quark introduction take place after the trial is over (if it gets that far)? Because he needs to be clear of any IP entanglements.

    This is the picture now coming into focus. It will be hard for many to see, at least initially. And it still may be an illusion of the world’s greatest illusionist. But it is quite a picture.

    Quite. A. Picture.

    • Omega Z

      Woodford trusts claimed early on that this is just an IP war seen in many VC operations.

      Mats Lewan’s claim that Rossi offered to return IH/Darden his $11.5 Million back in return for relinquishing all claims on Rossi’s IP sounds even more credible. Rossi does not need IH/Dardens take it slow and buy up all available IP’s of others.

      • Bob Greenyer

        The good thing is that neither me356 or Suhas use LiAlH4 or Lithium. As per my technical call yesterday – the LiOH was a late addition and didn’t make a significant difference.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      I guess there could have been a mixture of intentional and unintentional components. If so, it will be very difficult to separate them. A lot of work for Mats L with regard to the – hopefully pending – next edition of his book.

  • Axil Axil

    It is conjectured that protons and neutrons can move from nucleus to nucleus under the influence of subatomic particles, specifically pions.

    One idea that is not found in the conjecture is fusion as a consequence of coulomb barrier penetration. In this rejection of fusion as a major reaction in LENR, we are making progress. To identify how the strong and weak force produce LENR reaction results under the influence of unusual magnetic effects is valid in principle if not in detail.

    • Max Temple

      Regardless if it is correct or not, I feel a deep resonance with the theme of this paper: placing hydrogen or other elements between internal pockets, cavities, defects, or grain boundaries in order to be exposed to special geometric arrangements of magnetic fields.

      • Axil Axil

        My feeling is that the elements in the fuel are all vaporized. The LENR reaction is occurring in the plasma where there is no structure to impose the magnetic fields. But all plasmas are dirty at the edges where the cool surfaces of the containment produces nanoparticles from condensing vapor in the vaporized fuel. It is around these nanoparticles in their points of contact that magnetic fields can form and maybe reach out at a distance to produce the LENR reaction.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Magnetics yes.

      What can create massive magnetic fields?

      The answer has been there a long time.

  • Axil Axil

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/05/19/my-opinion-regarding-rossicook-reaction-theory-axil-axil/

    “This quantum mechanical based movement is supported by the entanglement of protons in the hydrogen gas that surrounds the outside the nickel particle and the atoms of nickel inside the particle. Yes, Teleportation…like in star trek. A proton located in the hydrogen gas envelope does not need to find its way through large amounts of nickel by bumping and grinding their way through all that nickel. These protons just appear like magic inside the micro particle.”

    I predicted this reaction some time ago. Rossi said that the quantum mechanical based entangled transfer of nucleons between nuclei was ridiculous. Seems like he has changed his mind recently.

    • Bob Greenyer

      But what is transporting them really?

      Those ‘strange crystals’ of Parkhomov from his long term test – they are alumina and tungsten/cerium – now go look at the melting points of them and work out how they could move large distances and form crystals.

      • Bob Greenyer
          • Bob Greenyer

            It is note irrelevant

          • Axil Axil

            Frank Acland March 16, 2017 at 11:04 PM
            Dear Andrea,
            Are you using graphene to generate electricity by thermoelectric means with the QuarkX?
            Thank you very much,
            Frank Acland
            Andrea Rossi March 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM
            Frank Acland:

            Not exactly: we are using the high conductivity properties of graphene to recover the electricity produced directly inside the QuarkX. It is an experimental phase. Now we know and have measured the electricity produced by the QuarkX and we are experimenting how to harness it efficiently.

            Warm Regards,

            A.R.
            —————————————————————-
            This statement that the excess electrons are produced inside the QuarkX does not jube with this experiment that deduces that the plasma is neutral: “This implies that the plasma has an equal amount of positive ions flying in the direction of the current and negative ions(electrons) in the opposite direction.”

            The test for static charge on the structure of the reactor implies that there is no electrons being emitted by that structure.

            The graphite must be located on the outside of the cell and is picking up charge from the reactor. Where is that charge coming from?

          • Axil Axil

            Did Rossi ever say that he can still run the QuarkX in self sustain mode or in the Cat/mouse configuration.

            If either or both of these cases are still possible, then the COP = 22,223.23049 is a minimum to be expected.

          • Omega Z

            It starts within seconds.
            It receives continuous input power while in continuous in self sustain mode.

          • Vinney

            Does this new development also confirm the QuarkX can run over DC power, not necessitating single or three phase AC to operate.
            If so, this enables the QuarkX based product to both run OTG and in mobile applications.
            So once again we can look at democratizing power generation.
            Just what the bulk of humanity needs.

          • Omega Z

            ->”Does this new development also confirm the QuarkX can run over DC power, not necessitating single or three phase AC to operate.”

            Rossi would probably say this will be disclosed when the do the demo. he he…

            Anyway, with some exceptions, most will “NOT” want to be off grid. They just want cheap dependable energy. Off grid will not be so cheap and less dependable then today…

          • Alan DeAngelis
          • Bob Greenyer

            Eh hem, there is another explanation for the bright light and excess electrons…

          • LesioQ

            i.e. ?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Light emission without heat, observed by Shoulders, Hutchinson and at…

          • Alan DeAngelis

            I meant to post it here.Delta ray?
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_ray

          • LION

            Thanks for posting this link Mats, I have not seen it before and I am grateful as it has relevance for my own work.

  • Axil Axil

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/05/19/my-opinion-regarding-rossicook-reaction-theory-axil-axil/

    “This quantum mechanical based movement is supported by the entanglement of protons in the hydrogen gas that surrounds the outside the nickel particle and the atoms of nickel inside the particle. Yes, Teleportation…like in star trek. A proton located in the hydrogen gas envelope does not need to find its way through large amounts of nickel by bumping and grinding their way through all that nickel. These protons just appear like magic inside the micro particle.”

    I predicted this reaction some time ago. Rossi said that the quantum mechanical based entangled transfer of nucleons between nuclei was ridiculous. Seems like he has changed his mind recently.

  • Gerard McEk

    So what have we got here:
    1. A small 6mm tube of some exotic material that can withstand around 3000K and is still vacuum tight and able to keep hydrogen in.
    2. Two nickel electrodes at both ends, 15mm apart and perfectly sealed into the tube to temperatures of around 3000K
    3. LiAlH4 powder inside the tube.
    4. A DC low voltage current controlled power source to maintain the plasma. An one ohm resistor (maybe with high inductance to enable HV starter)
    5. A high voltage pulse starter to start the plasma.

    It seems that the Ecat X/QuarkX is not solid state but a plasma reactor. This gives a whole new dimension on the developments.

    Also interesting is that ‘the physicist’ of AR’s team may be Gullström. He postulated that neutron tunneling may be the cause of LENR. See:
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/10/29/rossi-congratulates-carl-oscar-gullstrom-on-theoretical-lenr-paper/

    • Bob Greenyer

      Plasma – well, more likely, glow.

      • Max Temple

        I think this is an arc discharge between the two electrodes rather than a glow discharge. Otherwise, the voltage to keep it going would probably — unless there are other very interesting phenomena at play — be much higher. Remember, when the arc discharge begins the voltage drops rapidly as the amperage climbs. And that is how Rossi described this device — more like a source of amps rather than a voltage booster.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Think cold cathode.

          • Zephir

            But at the 0.1 V voltage? And 2000+ °C is anything but cold…

          • Bob Greenyer

            I question the temp.

          • sam

            Frank Acland
            March 27, 2017 at 8:41 AM
            Dear Andrea,

            You mention making a simulation of large scale production of QuarkXes.

            Is this a software simulation, or actually combining QuarkXes in an industrial-size unit?

            Thank you,

            Frank Acland

            Andrea Rossi
            March 27, 2017 at 9:49 AM
            Frank Acland:
            We are working in this very moment on both issues.
            Warm Regards
            A.R.

            Andrea Rossi
            March 27, 2017 at 8:06 AM
            Dear Readers:
            Yesterday this blog has been unaccessible for several hours during the afternoon for a hacking attack. Our IP guy has repristinated all well in short time.
            Sorry for the gap of accessibility.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Do you think the volume of plasma is relevant?

      Does plasma have density? Can you have more or less plasma in a confined area?

      What I am getting at is the question of whether the proportion of open space is perhaps an important factor, if so; in proportion to what?

      • Bob Greenyer

        I don’t think the active part is plasma, more like heavily excited, of course there will be some plasma.

        The Tokamak confines plasma magnetically – so it must be able to confine it.

      • Max Temple

        The action takes place inside the nickel cathode that’s bombarded by protons.

        • Zephir

          You forget to say “according to my layman opinion” – as usually… 🙂

          The problem is, such a reaction was never observed and the hydrogen thyratrons are in the game for quite some time already. Instead of it, the bombarding of lithium with protons or deuterons plasma leads to nuclear reaction rather reliably. https://www.google.com/patents/WO1994016446A1 at the voltage bellow 300 V

      • Gerard McEk

        I do think the volume is relevant from an energy density point of view. The plasma may become unstable when the temperatures become too high. This is probably the reason why Andrea moved to smaller volumes. Normally the density becomes higher at higher pressures and at higher currents, however; When other phenomena play a role like Fusion/neutron tunneling and leading to additional heat production, then you must take steps to increase the withdrawal of energy.
        So to answer your question: A small lengthy shape of this LENR plasma is probably needed to obtain a stable temperature and avoid runaway.

        • Omega Z

          Correct. Rossi has had to develop/invent new materials to handle very high temps as well as find a means of extracting the heat quick enough to avoid burn out. This likely has to do with the 5 sigma. Finding a balance/control between heat production and extraction without the device self destructing.

          Even infinite COP is not cheap energy if you have to continually replace the reactor daily.

  • Gerard McEk

    So what have we got here:
    1. A small 6mm tube of some exotic material that can withstand around 3000K and is still vacuum tight and able to keep hydrogen in.
    2. Two nickel electrodes at both ends, 15mm apart and perfectly sealed into the tube to temperatures of around 3000K
    3. LiAlH4 powder inside the tube.
    4. A DC low voltage current controlled power source to maintain the plasma. An one ohm resistor (maybe with high inductance to enable HV starter)
    5. A high voltage pulse starter to start the plasma.

    It seems that the Ecat X/QuarkX is not solid state but a plasma reactor. This gives a whole new dimension on the developments.

    Also interesting is that ‘the physicist’ of AR’s team may be Gullström. He postulated that neutron tunneling may be the cause of LENR. See:
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/10/29/rossi-congratulates-carl-oscar-gullstrom-on-theoretical-lenr-paper/

    • Bob Greenyer

      Plasma – well, more likely, glow.

      • Max Temple

        I think this is an arc discharge between the two electrodes rather than a glow discharge. Otherwise, the voltage to keep it going would probably — unless there are other very interesting phenomena at play — be much higher. Remember, when the arc discharge begins the voltage drops rapidly as the amperage climbs. And that is how Rossi described this device — more like a source of amps rather than a voltage booster.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Think cold cathode.

          • Zephir

            But at the 0.1 V voltage? And 2000+ °C is anything but cold…

          • Bob Greenyer

            I question the temp.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Do you think the volume of plasma is relevant?

      Does plasma have density? Can you have more or less plasma in a confined area?

      What I am getting at is the question of whether the proportion of open space is perhaps an important factor, if so; in proportion to what?

      • Bob Greenyer

        I don’t think the active part is plasma, more like heavily excited, of course there will be some plasma.

        The Tokamak confines plasma magnetically – so it must be able to confine it.

      • Max Temple

        The action takes place inside the nickel cathode that’s bombarded by protons.

        • Zephir

          You forget to say “according to my layman opinion” – as usually… 🙂

          The problem is, such a reaction was never observed and the hydrogen thyratrons are in the game for quite some time already. Instead of it, the bombarding of lithium with protons or deuterons plasma leads to nuclear reaction rather reliably. https://www.google.com/patents/WO1994016446A1 at the voltage bellow 300 V

      • Gerard McEk

        I do think the volume is relevant from an energy density point of view. The plasma may become unstable when the temperatures become too high. This is probably the reason why Andrea moved to smaller volumes. Normally the density becomes higher at higher pressures and at higher currents, however; When other phenomena play a role like Fusion/neutron tunneling and leading to additional heat production, then you must take steps to increase the withdrawal of energy.
        So to answer your question: A small lengthy shape of this LENR plasma is probably needed to obtain a stable temperature and avoid runaway.

        • Omega Z

          Correct. Rossi has had to develop/invent new materials to handle very high temps as well as find a means of extracting the heat quick enough to avoid burn out. This likely has to do with the 5 sigma. Finding a balance/control between heat production and extraction without the device self destructing.

          Even infinite COP is not cheap energy if you have to continually replace the reactor daily.

  • AbyssUK

    The paper is a little odd, now I cannot speak really for the content as I am a chemist :). But Mr Güllström a PhD student doesn’t state his Uppsala University affiliation or official email address not even (I am assuming) his MPhys credentials. He did however submit from an account made using his official uni email address.

    I’d suspect he asked for permission from his professors to publish affiliated and was denied so had to publish personally, an odd thing to do as a student wanting his PhD. Could perhaps even harm his chances of getting his PhD? I hope it doesn’t. Why not wait until you had your PhD in the bag?

    • Jerry Soloman

      appears that AbyssUK part of the deep state is shaken by this new Rossi paper.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I am afraid that in this game, you have to do what’s right rather than what’s proper.

      sense and sensibility

    • It’s also riddled with minor errors and an overall lack of clarity.

      It must be considered a draft and it seems to have been rushed out… for what purpose I do not know, but perhaps to impact the legal proceedings in some way. (What way?)

      The important thing to me is that another scientist got up close and personal with a Rossi device and vouches for its performance in the form of a written paper.

      So it impacts the relative odds of duped vs. conspiracy vs. new energy era.

      • AbyssUK

        Agreed it’s not the most professional of papers I’ve ever read.. but I must admit I have read worse. It does seem rushed out for some reason…. Also you’d think a current PhD student would know that you have to add an accessed on date to any references with url’s.

      • artefact

        Maybe because of ECCO …?

      • AbyssUK

        I also have questions about the scientist getting up close to the Rossi device.

        Gullstrom went alone to see Rossi, from Sweden to Florida ?? A PhD student didn’t take his professor with him or even a trusted friend/lab partner from his course ? Did he seek any help from his professors, surely he must have right? Who paid for him to go ?

        Next we know nothing of the technical capabilities of Mr Gullstrom, he may well be the next Einstein of theoretical physics.. but has he ever used that Stellar Net spectrometer 350-1150 nm before, was it actually his or Rossi’s ? and what does he know about measuring electrical power? Again i don’t know he may be also a practical genius too.

        Then you want to know what tricks was he looking for (wireless energy transmitting devices, any extra wires or pipes, hidden battery’s/capacitors, radiation sources) does he have any experience at all with complex mechanical/electrical systems for generating heat/power?

        How easily duped is this guy ?

        How easily bought is this guy ?

        Still a million questions.

  • Bård Havre

    QuarkX, SunCell. Two faces on the same dice??

    • Bob Greenyer

      well – they are not the same theories by far – one or both theories would have to be wrong for your statement to be true.

  • Bob Greenyer

    We have the perfect tool – come on Rossi, lift the veil

  • Alan DeAngelis
  • Alan DeAngelis
  • Vladimir

    In Sweden there is a quite good climate for Cold Fusion at the moment. Researchers has been drawn over there silently to form new entities. Research ongoing on Nickel, Palladium and other materials.

    For the best researchers there’s no problem to Fetch funding.

    • Bicke Dutte

      Shadilay!

  • Vladimir

    In Sweden there is a quite good climate for Cold Fusion at the moment. Researchers has been drawn over there silently to form new entities. Research ongoing on Nickel, Palladium and other materials.

    For the best researchers there’s no problem to Fetch funding.

    • Bicke Dutte

      Shadilay!

  • Stephen

    Well that’s a proper scientific paper!

    Much more than a concept piece. There are real theoretical foundations here and a strongly though through processes. And good supportive experimental evidence too.

    Alot of this is above my level but I was fascinated by the concepts in this paper. And amazed how the contained theory was all fitted together

  • Stephen

    Well that’s a proper scientific paper!

    Much more than a concept piece. There are real theoretical foundations here and a strongly though through processes. And good supportive experimental evidence too.

    Alot of this is above my level but I was fascinated by the concepts in this paper. And amazed how the contained theory was all fitted together

  • Bob Greenyer

    well – they are not the same theories by far – one or both theories would have to be wrong for your statement to be true.

  • gautea

    But Nickel melts a bit over 1700 Kelvin ? I have to be sceptical… Does this mean it works with melted nickel ?

    • Bob Greenyer

      I think it emits ‘photons’ without getting hot (well not as hot as one would expect)

      This is why having it in our MFC would settle the debate.

      • Stephen

        It does look like he has managed to harness non thermal high energy emissions from the Nickel at least to generate heat at some kind of external surface somehow. Whatever form that emission takes.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Looks that way

          • Stephen

            I think Boron Carbide or Boron Nitride could fit the surface material at these temperatures but that’s would be a pure guess.

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron_carbide

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron_nitride#

            They would bring some other interesting attributes too… high band gap… neutron absorption… can be corrugated… can be doped with other metals to bring other useful attributes… etc.

            I’m not sure if it can hold a vacuum or not though.

          • Stephen

            I suppose graphine could be interesting at these temperatures too but this would have some different electrical properties so I suppose it would depend what advantages they bring or not.

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene

            On a slightly off topic point. Bob Interestingly graphine had some interesting effects with hexagonal Boron Nitride… Take a look at the later part of the properties section here. I’m not sure yet I understand the concept of “massive elections” yet but it comes up here.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I suggested Cubic Boron Nitride a very long time ago… not in this context though. Purely for its heat capacity and strength

          • Stephen

            Those aspects could also be really useful too. It’s interesting the paper says the emission is close to that if a blackbody. I wonder if this kind of material can act like that.

        • Bob Greenyer

          When Suhas first told me that he saw the Titanium glow red hot in his treatment – you can hear me question him as to if he checked the temperature – I even said, did he ‘touch’ it… I said those things for a reason.

          You can hear it in this recording.

          https://soundcloud.com/user-554048314/suhas

          • Stephen

            Interesting I remember you mentioning it now.

      • Husky

        @Bob btw. how is the funding going – i read that you can also make use of BTC? I have quite a few BTC sitting around here – maybe i could help you even more – btw. do you have skype or sth?

        • Bob Greenyer

          Skype yes.

          There have been some pledges to the bank account – waiting for them to clear – we could be in a very different position this time tomorrow.

          the BTC would be very useful.

          Thankyou for helping wake people up!

          I am calling in a lot of dormant favours to make this happen.

          • Husky

            add me: hans.moog.1984

          • Bob Greenyer

            check

    • Ophelia Rump

      Curiously the sun’s outer layer the Corona is 200 times hotter than the inner layer.

      How this can be has been a mystery for 70 years.

      I believe that there have been melted samples of fuel and also that Dottore Rossi has confirmed that the reaction continues in melted fuel. I suspect there is enough splatter for it to restart after a good melt.

      • Jeffsmathers

        If you read Dr. Mills theory at BLP it describes a non radiative transfer of the H electron to a lower orbit and giving up 30 to 60 eV of power via a catalysis carrier.

    • gautea

      It easy to see if nickel is melted when you stop it ☺ and then Edmund Storm’s theory does not fit with this. He talks about lenr reactions in nano cracks.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I am afraid that in this game, you have to do what’s right rather than what’s proper.

    sense and sensibility

  • It’s also riddled with minor errors and an overall lack of clarity.

    It must be considered a draft and it seems to have been rushed out… for what purpose I do not know, but perhaps to impact the legal proceedings in some way. (What way?)

    The important thing to me is that another scientist got up close and personal with a Rossi device and vouches for its performance in the form of a written paper.

    So it impacts the relative odds of duped vs. conspiracy vs. new energy era.

    • AbyssUK

      Agreed it’s not the most professional of papers I’ve ever read.. but I must admit I have read worse. It does seem rushed out for some reason…. Also you’d think a current PhD student would know that you have to add an accessed on date to any references with url’s.

    • artefact

      Maybe because of ECCO …?

    • AbyssUK

      I also have questions about the scientist getting up close to the Rossi device.

      Gullstrom went alone to see Rossi, from Sweden to Florida ?? A PhD student didn’t take his professor with him or even a trusted friend/lab partner from his course ? Did he seek any help from his professors, surely he must have right? Who paid for him to go ?

      Next we know nothing of the technical capabilities of Mr Gullstrom, he may well be the next Einstein of theoretical physics.. but has he ever used that Stellar Net spectrometer 350-1150 nm before, was it actually his or Rossi’s ? and what does he know about measuring electrical power? Again i don’t know he may be also a practical genius too.

      Then you want to know what tricks was he looking for (wireless energy transmitting devices, any extra wires or pipes, hidden battery’s/capacitors, radiation sources) does he have any experience at all with complex mechanical/electrical systems for generating heat/power?

      How easily duped is this guy ?

      How easily bought is this guy ?

      Still a million questions.

  • AbyssUK

    A vacuum pressure vessel that runs at ~2500°C is intriguing whatever the size, my first guess would be a silicon carbide material, perhaps made to be more ductile somehow. But then the connections etc.. must be sealed with something, but too brittle to use metallic seals.. so maybe a glass/ceramic paste and/or mica seals. (The vessel ends shouldn’t be as hot as the center)

  • AbyssUK

    A vacuum pressure vessel that runs at ~2500°C is intriguing whatever the size, my first guess would be a silicon carbide material, perhaps made to be more ductile somehow. But then the connections etc.. must be sealed with something, but too brittle to use metallic seals.. so maybe a glass/ceramic paste and/or mica seals. (The vessel ends shouldn’t be as hot as the center)

  • Bob Greenyer

    I think it emits ‘photons’ without getting hot (well not as hot as one would expect)

    This is why having it in our MFC would settle the debate.

    • Stephen

      It does look like he has managed to harness non thermal emissions at least to generate heat at some kind of external surface somehow. Whatever form that emission takes.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Looks that way

        • Stephen

          I think Boron Carbide or Boron Nitride could fit the surface material at these temperatures but that’s would be a pure guess.

          They would bring some other interesting attributes too… high band gap… neutron absorption… can be corrugated… can be doped with other metals to bring other useful attributes… etc.

          I’m not sure if it can hold a vacuum or not though.

          • Stephen

            I suppose graphine could be interesting at these temperatures too but this would have some different electrical properties so I suppose it would depend what advantages they bring or not.

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene

            On a slightly off topic point. Bob Interestingly graphine had some interesting effects with hexagonal Boron Nitride… Take a look at the later part of the properties section here. I’m not sure yet I understand the concept of “massive elections” yet but it comes up here.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I suggested Cubic Boron Nitride a very long time ago… not in this context though. Purely for its heat capacity and strength

          • Stephen

            Those aspects could also be really useful too. It’s interesting the paper says the emission is close to that if a blackbody. I wonder if this kind of material can act like that.

      • Bob Greenyer

        When Suhas first told me that he saw the Titanium glow red hot in his treatment – you can hear me question him as to if he checked the temperature – I even said, did he ‘touch’ it… I said those things for a reason.

        You can hear it in this recording.

        https://soundcloud.com/user-554048314/suhas

        • Stephen

          Interesting I remember you mentioning it now.

    • Husky

      @Bob btw. how is the funding going – i read that you can also make use of BTC? I have quite a few BTC sitting around here – maybe i could help you even more – btw. do you have skype or sth?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Skype yes.

        There have been some pledges to the bank account – waiting for them to clear – we could be in a very different position this time tomorrow.

        the BTC would be very useful.

        Thankyou for helping wake people up!

        I am calling in a lot of dormant favours to make this happen.

        • Husky

          add me: hans.moog.1984

          • Bob Greenyer

            check

  • Husky

    ​Okay regardless how credible this is … am i the only one seeing parallels to Mr. Suhas reactor that is getting tested by MFMP quite soon?

    ​A tube with 2 “rods” pointing at the fuel from both sides having “a little bit of space” between the rods and the fuel (1,5 cm)? And a voltage (also DC) applied to the rods?

    • Where can I find the best description of Suhas’ reactor?

      • artefact

        Until now I think only as audio in the four discussions on soundcloud
        (search for: Technical discussions)
        https://steemit.com/ecco/@mfmp/ecco-an-instant-on-off-ultrasonically-fluidised-dusty-plasma-new-fire-reactor

        • One day I’ll need to transcribe and condense all that stuff. Searching and digesting audio and video requires another life… 😉

          • artefact

            At some point we will have a good description made by the crowd or MFMP. But for now it is still fresh stuff.

          • Adam Lepczak

            Mats, would you consider flying to India in order to witness the demo and consult with basic calorimetry? I have volunteered you and Bob Greenyer thinks you might be just the right person to be present during the demo.

      • Gerard McEk

        Hi Mats,
        Any chance you can arrange Gullström to talk with you or us about this?

      • Husky

        Hey Mats:

        The basic “design” of the reactor can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il6C2FMzA-E @ around the 4:10 mark.

        The basic layout very much resembled what is described here.

      • Omega Z

        Contact Bob Greenyer

        He knows Suha and has seen the device.

    • SG

      Probably a sapphire tube, as has been contemplated here and elsewhere.

      • SG

        Or maybe a carbon tube as suggested below (thereby also explaining black body description in paper). Convergence with BLP?

        http://dragonplate.com/ecart/product.asp?pID=738&gclid=CO703rvR6tICFQ94fgodtoUIxg

        • Zephir

          The reactor diameter was around 1 mm, given the area 1.0 cm2 and length 1.5 cm above given (distance of electrodes). The graphite pipe couldn’t withstand it mechanically (not to say it would burn quickly at 2000+ °C) on air.

  • Husky

    ​Okay regardless how credible this is … am i the only one seeing parallels to Mr. Suhas reactor that is getting tested by MFMP quite soon?

    ​A tube with 2 “rods” pointing at the fuel from both sides having “a little bit of space” between the rods and the fuel (1,5 cm)? And a voltage (also DC) applied to the rods?

    • Where can I find the best description of Suhas’ reactor?

      • artefact

        Until now I think only as audio in the four discussions on soundcloud
        (search for: Technical discussions)
        https://steemit.com/ecco/@mfmp/ecco-an-instant-on-off-ultrasonically-fluidised-dusty-plasma-new-fire-reactor

        • One day I’ll need to transcribe and condense all that stuff. Searching and digesting audio and video requires another life… 😉

          • artefact

            At some point we will have a good description made by the crowd or MFMP. But for now it is still fresh stuff.

          • Adam Lepczak

            Mats, would you consider flying to India in order to witness the demo and consult with basic calorimetry? I have volunteered you and Bob Greenyer thinks you might be just the right person to be present during the demo.

      • Gerard McEk

        Hi Mats,
        Any chance you can arrange Gullström to talk with you or us about this?

        • Will try.

          • Rip Kirbyian

            Please Mats also ask the other members of the Uppsala faculty to tell us something about their LENR-activities!

          • Gerard McEk

            Thank you!

      • Husky

        Hey Mats:

        The basic “design” of the reactor can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il6C2FMzA-E @ around the 4:10 mark.

        The basic layout very much resembles what is described here as the design of the quarx.

      • Omega Z

        Contact Bob Greenyer

        He knows Suha and has seen the device.

    • SG

      Probably a sapphire tube, as has been contemplated here and elsewhere.

      • SG

        Or maybe a carbon tube as suggested below (thereby also explaining black body description in paper). Convergence with BLP?

        http://dragonplate.com/ecart/product.asp?pID=738&gclid=CO703rvR6tICFQ94fgodtoUIxg

        • Zephir

          The reactor diameter was around 1 mm, given the area 1.0 cm2 and length 1.5 cm above given (distance of electrodes). The graphite pipe couldn’t withstand it mechanically (not to say it would burn quickly at 2000+ °C) on air.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Curiously the sun’s outer layer the Corona is 200 times hotter than the inner layer.

    How this can be has been a mystery for 70 years.

    I believe that there have been melted samples of fuel and also that Dottore Rossi has confirmed that the reaction continues in melted fuel. I suspect there is enough splatter for it to restart after a good melt.

  • Omega Z

    Rossi used the term “5 sigma” long before the Higgs and was in terms of the effect being real.

    However, I think Rossi uses it now most in the terms of a reliable device. Think Motorola and General Electric

    Six Sigma

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Sigma

    • Horshu

      5 sigma and Six Sigma are not related…I’m only speaking of the former, which is a measure of statistical certainty (basically, it’s 99.9999% certainty, but you need millions of samples to achieve that, which is why is shows up in particle physics)

      EDIT: Also, my issue with 5 sigma and Rossi is that I never heard him mention it until he was asked about it, at which point, he mentioned it a LOT, and it became a milestone that he was aiming for. But it didn’t make sense to me, as I don’t see what he’s going to sample enough to get 5 sigma…or even why he’d bother, as the macro world ends to have 100% certainties (no superpositions, no relativistic speeds/distortions); he’s either 100% sure he can start the process, or he’s never going to be able to run it enough times to hit 5 sigma certainty that he can). If he starts talking about perfect black bodies a lot from now on, that’ll be a tell to me.

      • Omega Z

        I do not have time to track it down. But as I said, Rossi used the term “Sigma 5” several years ago prior to the Lugano test.

        They did not have millions of samples to achieve Sigma 5 for the Higgs. Nor do you need millions of samples. It is done statistically using data sets.
        —————————————————————–
        Dear Andrea,

        When you speak of 5 sigma, are you using that in terms such as this…

        Continuous efforts to achieve stable and predictable process results (e.g. by reducing process variation)
        —————————————————————–
        Substantially, the nutshell is that, but through the math of statistic calculations.

        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        • Horshu

          I’m curious how many samples you think the LHC has…my understanding is that they have on the order of 600+ million collisions *per run* (the collision is the data sample – http://lhc-machine-outreach.web.cern.ch/lhc-machine-outreach/collisions.htm). You can cull some of those out for whatever purposes you want, but you’re still looking at millions of collisions.

          BTW: I won’t reply further…I really hate getting into long-winded semantic Internet arguments. The LHC is really tangential to my point, anyway; it’s a point about statistics.

          • bachcole

            Do I print this paper out, put it in my fireplace, and burn it to keep warm on cold nights. We need more than papers. We need physically objective results in the real, physical world. All that we have had for years now, since the various tests on the immature E-Cat, is more “Rossi Says”. I hope to get excited again when people with real credibility get excited about Quarkx or the E-Cat. Until then, on this issue, I will go back to sleep. Another paper or another announcement doesn’t do anything for me.

          • Vinney

            Yes! Another paper, but an introduction to a new talent, with outstanding physics credentials, although young.
            But at these COP results, the effect is undeniable.
            The higher the COP, the less the likelihood the effect is false, and the less the margin for error.
            I believe the results.

          • georgehants

            Roger, I think the scientific term you are describing re. Rossi for the last seven years is that he is “a waste of space”.
            Seven years of a life saving discovery hidden for nothing but greed. (if genuine)
            Come on MFMP put Rossi in the shadows.

          • bachcole

            George, I do not go as far as you do. My belief has withered and needs watering. But I do not disbelieve. I am not saying that the E-Cat, the quarkx, and everything that Rossi has done and is doing is fakery. (I leave the fakery to the mainstream news media and politicians.)

          • georgehants

            Roger, I also in no way have suggested that it is not genuine (beyond their being no confirmed open repetition of the effect), my point as always is the delay in allowing work to start on the benefits Cold Fusion can bring to the World.

          • Ophelia Rump

            That was burn enough for a whole season.

          • Gerrit

            Sometimes I wonder what the Rossi tales will be in 5 years from now. What have we seen since 2011, ECat, Warm Cat, Hot Cat, Cat mouse, Xcat, GasCat.

  • sam

    Translate
    Cornelius
    March 22, 2017 at 7:43 AM
    Dr Andrea Rossi,
    Strong comgratulations to you and Gullstrom for your paper.
    You made an enormous progress.
    All the best
    C.

    Translate
    Andrea Rossi
    March 22, 2017 at 10:48 AM
    Cornelius:
    Thank you!
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

  • sam

    Translate
    Cornelius
    March 22, 2017 at 7:43 AM
    Dr Andrea Rossi,
    Strong comgratulations to you and Gullstrom for your paper.
    You made an enormous progress.
    All the best
    C.

    Translate
    Andrea Rossi
    March 22, 2017 at 10:48 AM
    Cornelius:
    Thank you!
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

  • Axil Axil

    Frank Acland March 16, 2017 at 11:04 PM
    Dear Andrea,
    Are you using graphene to generate electricity by thermoelectric means with the QuarkX?
    Thank you very much,
    Frank Acland
    Andrea Rossi March 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM
    Frank Acland:

    Not exactly: we are using the high conductivity properties of graphene to recover the electricity produced directly inside the QuarkX. It is an experimental phase. Now we know and have measured the electricity produced by the QuarkX and we are experimenting how to harness it efficiently.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.
    —————————————————————-
    This statement that the excess electrons are produced inside the QuarkX does not jube with this experiment that deduces that the plasma is neutral: “This implies that the plasma has an equal amount of positive ions flying in the direction of the current and negative ions(electrons) in the opposite direction.”

    The test for static charge on the structure of the reactor implies that there is no electrons being emitted by that structure.

    The graphite must be located on the outside of the cell and is picking up charge from the reactor. Where is that charge coming from?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Eh hem, there is another explanation for the bright light and excess electrons…

      • LesioQ

        i.e. ?

        • Bob Greenyer

          Light emission without heat, observed by Shoulders, Hutchinson, likely Suhas and at…

    • Alan DeAngelis

      I meant to post it here.Delta ray?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_ray

  • Axil Axil

    Did Rossi ever say that he can still run the QuarkX in self sustain mode or in the Cat/mouse configuration?

    If either or both of these cases are still possible, then the COP = 22,223.23049 is a minimum to be expected.

    • Omega Z

      It starts within seconds.
      It receives continuous input power while in continuous in self sustain mode.

      • roseland67

        Omega,

        Seems like a contradiction in terms

        • Omega Z

          If your contradiction in terms is about of the grid cheap energy,

          People have very simplistic views on this. People are clueless about the cost and maintenance of maintaining our energy systems and all the redundancies that keep it reliable. We do not see it thanks to our modern convenience of just flip a switch mentality. Once you put it in your home, that all changes.

          When you get home, will you have lights. How many days till a technician is available. Will they need to order the parts etc, etc..

          I think people will opt for a standard $30 a month utility bill. Cheaper then an anual system recharge that technician will charge and none of the worries.

          From the Grid: No heat system disposal or utilization cost, No peak demand capacity(This would be a huge individual cost. Likely 5x what a utility would need).

          Note: I envision a small local grid system without the costs of transmitting energy 100’s of miles from a large central power plant.

          • roseland67

            My comment was in response to Omega first post,
            “It receives continuous input power while in continuous self sustain mode”

          • Omega Z

            OK,

            From what Rossi answered to a question, Even in self sustain, it requires some power input. I assume a lower level of input.

            Also, Rossi claim the same for the 1MW plant. Even in self sustain with 1MW output, it still required between 8K to 13K of input.

            Also, Mouse/Cat- Mouse required input even when the cat was in self sustain.

            I actually suspected this clear back during the Ferrara, Italy test that brought about the Lugano test. About 10 watts unaccounted for.

            It appears some kind of stimulation is required to maintain self sustain…
            —————————————————————————
            Rossi dribbles information out and I think this hurts his credibility. But it’s always possible that’s his intent. If completely believable, how many people would be jumping in to compete.

            I also think the technology works. Except sometimes. That makes it not ready for market.

          • roseland67

            Omega,

            So, if the process always requires some amount of input power, it cannot be self sustaining, can it?

      • Vinney

        Does this new development also confirm the QuarkX can run over DC power, not necessitating single or three phase AC to operate.
        If so, this enables the QuarkX based product to both run OTG and in mobile applications.
        So once again we can look at democratizing power generation.
        Just what the bulk of humanity needs.

        • Omega Z

          ->”Does this new development also confirm the QuarkX can run over DC power, not necessitating single or three phase AC to operate.”

          Rossi would probably say this will be disclosed when the do the demo. he he…

          Anyway, with some exceptions, most will “NOT” want to be off grid. They just want cheap dependable energy. Off grid will not be so cheap and less dependable then today…

    • Alan DeAngelis
  • WaltC

    I’m pretty sure there was a lot missing in the description of the Doral experiment, but the setup seems like it would be fairly easy to replicate given the availability of University-level lab equipment. Nickel rods. Vacuum chamber. They don’t mention how the LiAlH4 is affixed to the rods. Very low voltage– you could do that with a battery, though maybe it’s not constant DC, but modulated DC?

    So what am I missing? Is this a simpler way to replicate the LENR effect or not?

    • Rene

      Patent-ese description: A direct current is applied then switched. That can mean on/off every few seconds to megahertz pulsed DC. in other words the solution space is made very vague.
      I am also not convinced that the low ohms (1 ohm specifically) described holds when the unit is operating. He does not state whether that 1 Ohm was a cold measurement, literally measuring the resistance of an inoperative quark end to end, versus deriving or measuring the resistance once it is glowing/ plasma(ing) away. This is critically important because the 22K COP calculation is derived from a constant 1 ohm assumption. What if the resistance dropped?
      This all calls for independent review, definitely looking forward to that happening.

  • WaltC

    I’m pretty sure there was a lot missing in the description of the Doral experiment, but the setup seems like it would be fairly easy to replicate given the availability of University-level lab equipment. Nickel rods. Vacuum chamber. They don’t mention how the LiAlH4 is affixed to the rods. Very low voltage– you could do that with a battery, though maybe it’s not constant DC, but modulated DC?

    So what am I missing? Is this a simpler way to replicate the LENR effect or not?

    • Rene

      Patent-ese description: A direct current is applied then switched. That can mean on/off every few seconds to megahertz pulsed DC. in other words the solution space is made very vague.
      I am also not convinced that the low ohms (1 ohm specifically) described holds when the unit is operating. He does not state whether that 1 Ohm was a cold measurement, literally measuring the resistance of an inoperative quark end to end, versus deriving or measuring the resistance once it is glowing/ plasma(ing) away. This is critically important because the 22K COP calculation is derived from a constant 1 ohm assumption. What if the resistance dropped?
      This all calls for independent review, definitely looking forward to that happening.

  • Frank Acland

    It sounds like Gullstrom is an established member of Rossi’s team. AR said the other day he had a physicist on the team, and today this:

    Tom Conover
    March 22, 2017 at 11:10 AM
    Dear Andrea,

    I enjoyed reading (not really understanding all about it) Carl-Oscar Gullström- Andrea Rossi’s publication on https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.05249.pdf … Great job!
    Question for you please.
    Is Carl-Oscar Gullström on your team full or part time now with you?
    Thank your team for me please, and thanks to you to again for your endurance and perseverance.

    Andrea Rossi
    March 22, 2017 at 12:56 PM
    Tom Conover:
    Thanks.
    He is in our Team.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Gerard McEk

      Good, interesting! Also a question I wanted to ask AR. I didn’t expect AR positively on that though.
      Now, will this imply that AR’s theory will be based on neutron tunnelling?

      • Frank Acland

        I don’t know, Gerard, but I do remember that Rossi was full of praise for Gullstrom’s original article, so it looks like there was some resonance between the two men’s thinking, which seems to have continued.

    • Buck

      Frank,
      first . . . thank you for aiding the original connection between Rossi and Gullstrom.

      Second, there is at least one hot follow-up question. Does this PHD candidate know the full specifications for constructing a QuarkX so as to aid his dissertation on LENR and the Rossi-effect? This of course presumes some level of agreement between Gullstrom, his thesis advisors, and his PHD granting University so as to protect the IP.

      I am guessing that Gullstrom now knows what he will be researching for the next 30-40 years.

      • Frank Acland

        I don’t know whether Gullstrom’s work with Rossi is connected to his PHD work. I think it would great if it was, but I think a bit too personal for me to ask about on the JONP.

    • Jimr

      I think it’s great that he is working with Rossi, but I notice Rossi did not say he is working full time on his team, as he did not soecify that three 3 engineers, 2 techs and phd were working full time.

      • Frank Acland

        Yes, I agree. It may not be necessary for a physicist on site full time.

        • Axil Axil

          Somebody needs to replace Fabiani.

  • Frank Acland

    It sounds like Gullstrom is an established member of Rossi’s team. AR said the other day he had a physicist on the team, and today this:

    Tom Conover
    March 22, 2017 at 11:10 AM
    Dear Andrea,

    I enjoyed reading (not really understanding all about it) Carl-Oscar Gullström- Andrea Rossi’s publication on https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.05249.pdf … Great job!
    Question for you please.
    Is Carl-Oscar Gullström on your team full or part time now with you?
    Thank your team for me please, and thanks to you to again for your endurance and perseverance.

    Andrea Rossi
    March 22, 2017 at 12:56 PM
    Tom Conover:
    Thanks.
    He is in our Team.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Gerard McEk

      Good, interesting! Also a question I wanted to ask AR. I didn’t expect AR positively on that though.
      Now, will this imply that AR’s theory will be based on neutron tunnelling?

      • Frank Acland

        I don’t know, Gerard, but I do remember that Rossi was full of praise for Gullstrom’s original article, so it looks like there was some resonance between the two men’s thinking, which seems to have continued.

    • Buck

      Frank,
      first . . . thank you for aiding the original connection between Rossi and Gullstrom.

      Second, there is at least one hot follow-up question. Does this PHD candidate know the full specifications for constructing a QuarkX so as to aid his dissertation on LENR and the Rossi-effect? This of course presumes some level of agreement between Gullstrom, his thesis advisors, and his PHD granting University so as to protect the IP.

      I am guessing that Gullstrom now knows what he will be researching for the next 30-40 years.

      • Frank Acland

        I don’t know whether Gullstrom’s work with Rossi is connected to his PHD work. I think it would great if it was, but I think a bit too personal for me to ask about on the JONP.

    • Jimr

      I think it’s great that he is working with Rossi, but I notice Rossi did not say he is working full time on his team, as he did not soecify that three 3 engineers, 2 techs and phd were working full time.

      • Frank Acland

        Yes, I agree. It may not be necessary for a physicist on site full time.

        • Axil Axil

          Somebody needs to replace Fabiani.

  • pg

    Produce it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • pg

    Produce it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • FC

    Congratulations, Frank!

    Suddenly, the New Energy field seems to have hit critical mass and started an irreversible chain reaction towards a long overdue energy revolution. You have been instrumental (a true catalyst, or e-cat) in that process and now find yourself very deservingly right in the middle of the action. I am extremely happy for you. You are a great person.

    I also want to dedicate a few words to the late Eugene Mallove, who after many years researching the field came to the conclusion two decades ago that of all the technologies he had witnessed and studied, these three merited serious attention: LENR, BLP and the Correa technologies.

    Kudos to both of you.

    • roseland67

      FC,

      Gene Malove was a sharp guy, unshakable in his beliefs in science and bulldog like in his pursuit of the truth regardless of how many political rubs were put in his way, a remarkable man.

      If you look hard enough there is plenty of background data on his life, struggles and triumphs in he web.

    • Frank Acland

      Thank you, FC — nice to hear from you! However I’m not sure it is time for congratulations yet. My hope has always been that we see the Rossi effect put to use for practical purposes in the world, and we’re not there yet. I do think there are signs of progress, though, so staying hopeful!

      • FC

        Here’s to seeing your hopes fulfilled.
        Cheers.

  • FC

    Congratulations, Frank!

    Suddenly, the New Energy field seems to have hit critical mass and started an irreversible chain reaction towards a long overdue energy revolution. You have been instrumental (a true catalyst, or e-cat) in that process and now find yourself very deservingly right in the middle of the action. I am extremely happy for you. You are a great person.

    I also want to dedicate a few words to the late Eugene Mallove, who after many years researching the field came to the conclusion two decades ago that of all the technologies he had witnessed and studied, these three merited serious attention: LENR, BLP and the Correa technologies.

    Kudos to both of you.

    • roseland67

      FC,

      Gene Malove was a sharp guy, unshakable in his beliefs in science and bulldog like in his pursuit of the truth regardless of how many political rubs were put in his way, a remarkable man.

      If you look hard enough there is plenty of background data on his life, struggles and triumphs in he web.

    • Frank Acland

      Thank you, FC — nice to hear from you! However I’m not sure it is time for congratulations yet. My hope has always been that we see the Rossi effect put to use for practical purposes in the world, and we’re not there yet. I do think there are signs of progress, though, so staying hopeful!

      • FC

        Here’s to seeing your hopes fulfilled.
        Cheers.

  • roseland67

    Frank,

    In your opinion, Does this mean the Ecat development is obsolete?

    • Frank Acland

      In my opinion, the QuarkX is an E-Cat, and the result of development so far. If it is obviously superior to previous models (and it does seem to be) I would focus on it, and not go backwards.

      • Rene

        If I were to suspend disbelief (because none of this is verified), I’d agree. It looks like the evolution of the COP6 Elbow steamer cat, to the much larger low-temp cube-e-cats with COPs ranging from 6 to 20ish), to the hot-cat, and now to the downsized quarkX (with COPs all over the map). If small size was needed to manage reaction excursions, presumably automation will drive the costs down of the myriad qXs needed to deliver the power levels of the cube-e-cats.
        So, Rossi went from many exploding elbow cats, to sometimes exploding cube-e-cats, then a period of experimentation with the hot cats which somehow led to QuarkX-cats that popped too often, and finally to something that presumably is now fully controllable. But, this is hearsay presently. Looking forward to independent confirmation.

  • roseland67

    Frank,

    In your opinion, Does this mean the Ecat development is obsolete?

    • Frank Acland

      In my opinion, the QuarkX is an E-Cat, and the result of development so far. If it is obviously superior to previous models (and it does seem to be) I would focus on it, and not go backwards.

      • roseland67

        Thanks,
        That’s what it sounds like to me

      • Rene

        If I were to suspend disbelief (because none of this is verified), I’d agree. It looks like the evolution of the COP6 Elbow steamer cat, to the much larger low-temp cube-e-cats with COPs ranging from 6 to 20ish), to the hot-cat, and now to the downsized quarkX (with COPs all over the map). If small size was needed to manage reaction excursions, presumably automation will drive the costs down of the myriad qXs needed to deliver the power levels of the cube-e-cats.
        So, Rossi went from many exploding elbow cats, to sometimes exploding cube-e-cats, then a period of experimentation with the hot cats which somehow led to QuarkX-cats that popped too often, and finally to something that presumably is now fully controllable. But, this is hearsay presently. Looking forward to independent confirmation.

  • Dr. Mike

    The English in this paper should have been corrected prior to submission of the paper. The Doral experiment is so poorly explained that any attempt to gain any useful scientific information is close to useless. My interpretation of the 1 ohm resistor is a current measurement resistor, therefore no information is given on the voltage applied to the device. Even an online published paper should have included a basic schematic diagram of the experiment. It is hard to determine the merits of the theory presented in this paper from the poor way it has been written. I did not see how any of the presented experimental data supported this theory at the exclusion of other theories.

    • Axil Axil

      The input wattage is calculated to develop the COP. Is this calculation invalid in your opinion?

      • Obvious

        There is zero information on how input power was measured. Therefore it is impossible to determine how accurate and/or precise that information is.

        • Omega Z

          Probably Rossi does not want to expose to much info until after the legal situation is concluded.

          • Rene

            So once again titillating claims for press, glory and investors. It is time for due diligence.

          • Omega Z

            Could a judge order Rossi to hand over his IP. Hard to do if one is not certain if that IP truly exists and if it does, what it entails. Rossi can determine his course of action when things settle accordingly.

            To be certain, Rossi is a little paranoid about people trying to steal his IP. Sadly. It is highly justified. Attempts of out right theft, secretly attemping to scan the E-cats in operation and probably much more we haven’t even heard about.

            Rossi has spent Million$ of his own money. Enough that he could have lived well had he never worked with LENR. This is not what scammers do. They use other peoples money.

            There are perfectly legitimate questions we can ask. Reliable, dependable and many more. I can even answer that it obviously has issues to work out or Rossi would have already brought it to market.

            I think Rossi’s very concerned about putting a product on the market prematurely. Recalls and liabilty can quickly destroy ones plans. And insult to injury, the governmeny hits you with a few billion in fines.

            This is a new technology. A fiasco from the start could keep LENR products off the market for many years to come.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          One could grant the Lugano authors that they at least described their experiment exactly enough to allow a critical evaluation. That is not possible in the present case. However, I take this rather as a theory paper. As such it might be of some value, but testing the theory empirically would require a different kind of experiments (that’s basically what the authors say at the end). So the ‘experimental part’ appears to be superfluous in a way.

          • Dr. Mike

            Andreas,
            The experimental part also seemed superfluous to me. Very hard to determine if the theoretical part has any merit due to the way it was written.
            Dr. Mike

      • Rene

        Yes because it is not clear what the actual current was. The power is derived from a stated voltage and a derived amperage based on a vaguely worded description of the cell resistance. It is not clear if the 1 ohm resistance is the cell when off, or on, or if the resistance is a measurement blank.
        I cannot determine if the resistance varies upward or downward once it is in operation.

      • Vinney

        It’s called ‘professional envy’, but it’s still green.
        The COP is the only figure that matters, but was it measured correctly.
        Even if there is some margin of error, 22,000 could come down to 220.
        They still would be envious.

        • Vinney

          In other words, the higher the COP, the more any idiot can measure it.
          Rossi is laying down the gauntlet to especially the high priests of physics,
          “I got 22,000, but you can’t even get over ONE”.

          • Philip James

            Frank Acland claimed the COP… not Rossi.

      • Dr. Mike

        Axil Axil,
        The power dissipated in the 1 ohm resistor was as Frank calculated, but the input power to the device is unknown. There also was not enough information on the determination of the output power to begin to calculate a COP. Was the device temperature really 2636K? What was the outer material? Was it alumina, which melts at about 2345K? Was it really a perfect black body material? Finally, was this the QuarkX device that has an output power of 20W?
        Dr. Mike

        • Thomas Kaminski

          I agree that the power seems to be that dissipated in a current sensing resistor, not the input power to the plasma. I find it hard to believe that 0.1 Ampere of current at 0.1 volts can sustain the plasma, but I admit that I do not understand the theory expounded in the paper. Taking a more conservative approach and assuming that the voltage sustaining the plasma is on the order of 100 volts still leads to a COP of over 20.

          • Dr. Mike

            Thomas,
            If the voltage sustaining the plasma was 100V (quite reasonable), then the input power would be 100V times 0.1A equals 10W. If the device is Rossi’s 20W QuarkX, the COP would be 2. Nothing wrong with a COP of 2, but all such calculations are worthless when a good paper would have provided data for an accurate calculation.
            Dr. Mike

          • Thomas Kaminski

            The 100V was a guess, and I just used the estimated power from the black body radiation calculation to get the factor of 1000. Obviously, a good flow calorimetry setup would be preferable to get a more accurate power out result.

          • Zephir
    • MorganMck

      You assume that the authors really want you to fully understand and be able to replicate their work. I really doubt they do. I think they had something much more limited in mind.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Obviously so. Some of Gullström’s ideas sound interesting, but his way of thinking and way of formulating sentences feels challenging for me to follow. I also know too little of nuclear physics to be able to judge the ideas because they are at so advanced level.

      I figure that Gullström is a recent student who has probably listened to all the nuclear physics courses that are available in his university and who is an idea-rich person. Probably due to his excitement he has overlooked certain basics such as putting in dimensions in the equations (especially in calculations on page 3, top) or that the “Summary and discussion” section should give discussion and summary – and of course the language overall as you said.

      Overall: tantalising hints, a few inspiring thoughts, poor language, poor rigour, a lot of “trash DNA” riddled stuff whose meaning remains unclear. Frustrating to read. Familiar Rossi style.

      • Axil Axil

        Getting a long term job in particle physics is hard these days. Many post docs put in their time at the local particle accelerator to get their degrees then look at tons of data while the projects last. I think that the particles are getting very hard to find.

        LENR is coming of age at the right time for these young folks. There are more people than jobs. If there is money to be made in LENR research, they will come.

        • radvar

          That’s a great observation. The “fusion” of materials science and particle physics will greatly expand the career opportunities for young scientists. That’s exciting!

      • Dr. Mike

        I agree totally!

  • Dr. Mike

    The English in this paper should have been corrected prior to submission of the paper. The Doral experiment is so poorly explained that any attempt to gain any useful scientific information is close to useless. My interpretation of the 1 ohm resistor is a current measurement resistor, therefore no information is given on the voltage applied to the device. Even an online published paper should have included a basic schematic diagram of the experiment. It is hard to determine the merits of the theory presented in this paper from the poor way it has been written. I did not see how any of the presented experimental data supported this theory at the exclusion of other theories.

    • Axil Axil

      The input wattage is calculated to develop the COP. Is this calculation invalid in your opinion?

      • Obvious

        There is zero information on how input power was measured. Therefore it is impossible to determine how accurate and/or precise that information is.

        • Omega Z

          Probably Rossi does not want to expose to much info until after the legal situation is concluded.

          • Rene

            So once again titillating claims for press, glory and investors. It is time for due diligence.

          • Omega Z

            Could a judge order Rossi to hand over his IP. Hard to do if one is not certain if that IP truly exists and if it does, what it entails. Rossi can determine his course of action when things settle accordingly.

            To be certain, Rossi is a little paranoid about people trying to steal his IP. Sadly. It is highly justified. Attempts of out right theft, secretly attemping to scan the E-cats in operation and probably much more we haven’t even heard about.

            Rossi has spent Million$ of his own money. Enough that he could have lived well had he never worked with LENR. This is not what scammers do. They use other peoples money.

            There are perfectly legitimate questions we can ask. Reliable, dependable and many more. I can even answer that it obviously has issues to work out or Rossi would have already brought it to market.

            I think Rossi’s very concerned about putting a product on the market prematurely. Recalls and liabilty can quickly destroy ones plans. And insult to injury, the governmeny hits you with a few billion in fines.

            This is a new technology. A fiasco from the start could keep LENR products off the market for many years to come.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          One could grant the Lugano authors that they at least described their experiment exactly enough to allow a critical evaluation. That is not possible in the present case. However, I take this rather as a theory paper. As such it might be of some value, but testing the theory empirically would require a different kind of experiments (that’s basically what the authors say at the end). So the ‘experimental part’ appears to be superfluous in a way.

          • Dr. Mike

            Andreas,
            The experimental part also seemed superfluous to me. Very hard to determine if the theoretical part has any merit due to the way it was written.
            Dr. Mike

      • Rene

        Yes because it is not clear what the actual current was. The power is derived from a stated voltage and a derived amperage based on a vaguely worded description of the cell resistance. It is not clear if the 1 ohm resistance is the cell when off, or on, or if the resistance is a measurement blank.
        I cannot determine if the resistance varies upward or downward once it is in operation.

      • Vinney

        It’s called ‘professional envy’, but it’s still green in color.
        The COP is the only figure that matters, but was it measured correctly.
        Even if there is some margin of error, 22,000 could come down to 220.
        A post- graduate physics student from Uppsala University must have a pretty good idea what COP means, it’s first year physics experiments.

        • Vinney

          In other words, the higher the COP, the more any idiot can measure it.
          Rossi is laying down the gauntlet to especially the high priests of physics,
          “I got 22,000, but you can’t even get over ONE”.

          • Philip James

            Frank Acland claimed the COP… not Rossi.

      • Dr. Mike

        Axil Axil,
        The power dissipated in the 1 ohm resistor was as Frank calculated, but the input power to the device is unknown. There also was not enough information on the determination of the output power to begin to calculate a COP. Was the device temperature really 2636K? What was the outer material? Was it alumina, which melts at about 2345K? Was it really a perfect black body material? Finally, was this the QuarkX device that has an output power of 20W?
        Dr. Mike

        • Thomas Kaminski

          I agree that the power seems to be that dissipated in a current sensing resistor, not the input power to the plasma. I find it hard to believe that 0.1 Ampere of current at 0.1 volts can sustain the plasma, but I admit that I do not understand the theory expounded in the paper. Taking a more conservative approach and assuming that the voltage sustaining the plasma is on the order of 100 volts still leads to a COP of over 20.

          • Dr. Mike

            Thomas,
            If the voltage sustaining the plasma was 100V (quite reasonable), then the input power would be 100V times 0.1A equals 10W. If the device is Rossi’s 20W QuarkX, the COP would be 2. Nothing wrong with a COP of 2, but all such calculations are worthless when a good paper would have provided data for an accurate calculation.
            Dr. Mike

          • Thomas Kaminski

            The 100V was a guess, and I just used the estimated power from the black body radiation calculation to get the factor of 1000. Obviously, a good flow calorimetry setup would be preferable to get a more accurate power out result.

          • Zephir
    • MorganMck

      You assume that the authors really want you to fully understand and be able to replicate their work. I really doubt they do. I think they had something much more limited in mind.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Obviously so. Some of Gullström’s ideas sound interesting, but his way of thinking and way of formulating sentences feels challenging for me to follow. I also know too little of nuclear physics to be able to judge the ideas because they are at so advanced level.

      I figure that Gullström is a recent student who has probably listened to all the nuclear physics courses that are available in his university and who is an idea-rich person. Probably due to his excitement he has overlooked certain basics such as putting in dimensions in the equations (especially in calculations on page 3, top) or that the “Summary and discussion” section should give discussion and summary – and of course the language overall as you said.

      Overall: tantalising hints, a few inspiring thoughts, poor language, poor rigour, a lot of “trash DNA” riddled stuff whose meaning remains unclear. Frustrating to read. Familiar Rossi style.

      • Axil Axil

        Getting a long term job in particle physics is hard these days. Many post docs put in their time at the local particle accelerator to get their degrees then look at tons of data while the projects last. I think that the particles are getting very hard to find.

        LENR is coming of age at the right time for these young folks. There are more people than jobs. If there is money to be made in LENR research, they will come.

      • Dr. Mike

        I agree totally!

  • Omega Z

    Socialism is a race to the bottom.

    Someone will always produce less then you so that you must share your’s with them. Thus enslaving you to them. Overtime(a matter of a few years), there will be less and less per person.

    Note that people today benefit more then ever while being less productive then ever. Thanks to technology. However, everyone still wants even more while doing even less.

    Perhaps in time, we will create a matrix and plug everyone in. They can have their hearts desire while their body decays away in a life support module.

  • bachcole

    Do I print this paper out, put it in my fireplace, and burn it to keep warm on cold nights. We need more than papers. We need physically objective results in the real, physical world. All that we have had for years now, since the various tests on the immature E-Cat, is more “Rossi Says”. I hope to get excited again when people with real credibility get excited about Quarkx or the E-Cat. Until then, on this issue, I will go back to sleep. Another paper or another announcement doesn’t do anything for me.

    • Vinney

      Yes! Another paper, but an introduction to a new talent, with outstanding physics credentials, although young.
      But at these COP results, the effect is undeniable.
      The higher the COP, the less the likelihood the effect is false, and the less the margin for error.
      I believe the results.

    • roseland67

      I would take a peer reviewed paper from NASA, ABB, GE, FERMI, Argonne, or Siemens that said our experiment was built using:

      Identical Build instructions
      Identical materials
      Identical testing procedures
      Measured per industry standards
      Identical results of excess heat

      • bachcole

        Me to.
        Gullström just makes it “Rossi says” enhanced.

    • georgehants

      Roger, I think the scientific term you are describing re. Rossi for the last seven years is that he is “a waste of space”.
      Seven years of a life saving discovery hidden for nothing but seemingly greed. (if genuine)
      Come on MFMP put Rossi in the shadows.

      • bachcole

        George, I do not go as far as you do. My belief has withered and needs watering. But I do not disbelieve. I am not saying that the E-Cat, the quarkx, and everything that Rossi has done and is doing is fakery. (I leave the fakery to the mainstream news media and politicians.)

        • georgehants

          Roger, I also in no way have suggested that it is not genuine (beyond their being no confirmed open repetition of the effect), my point as always is the delay in allowing work to start on the benefits Cold Fusion can bring to the World.

    • Ophelia Rump

      That was burn enough for a whole season.

    • Gerrit_II

      Sometimes I wonder what the Rossi tales will be in 5 years from now. What have we seen since 2011, ECat, Warm Cat, Hot Cat, Cat mouse, Xcat, GasCat.

  • artefact

    MFMP:

    Bob Higgins commences fully automated Ni + LiAlH4 experiment

    “The GO button has just been clicked for an automated Ni + LiAlH4 experiment. Whilst Bob will always be able to intervene, but if he doesn’t, it will take 6 days.
    The experiment contains 1.02g of pre-processed AH-50 carbonyl Ni powder and 0.11g of LiAlH4. That was all that he could fit in the 2″ end of my smaller ceramic tube.
    There is a very slow temperature rise and the system will not be >600C until late tomorrow. The script includes soaking and evacuation cycles to clean out residual water vapor and O2.”

    http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/mfmp-blog/544-bob-higgins-commences-fully-automated-ni-lialh4-experiment

  • artefact

    MFMP:

    Bob Higgins commences fully automated Ni + LiAlH4 experiment

    “The GO button has just been clicked for an automated Ni + LiAlH4 experiment. Whilst Bob will always be able to intervene, but if he doesn’t, it will take 6 days.
    The experiment contains 1.02g of pre-processed AH-50 carbonyl Ni powder and 0.11g of LiAlH4. That was all that he could fit in the 2″ end of my smaller ceramic tube.
    There is a very slow temperature rise and the system will not be >600C until late tomorrow. The script includes soaking and evacuation cycles to clean out residual water vapor and O2.”

    http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/mfmp-blog/544-bob-higgins-commences-fully-automated-ni-lialh4-experiment

  • New court docs = TREASURE TROVE.

    Reading thru some of Rossi’s video testimony… under oath he says ‘customer side’ had platinum sponges and graphene… He measured steam temp with a Penon thermometer but Penon also collected data electronically from thermocouples and stored on computer… Fabiani took separate set of measurements at Darden’s request…

    • Heat escape mystery TWIST… second story window completely removed from office portion of warehouse…

    • Fabiani and Bass worked together on control system for JMP side.

    • Husky

      Where do you see video testimony?

    • Rossi has trouble swallowing… needs surgery!

      • Rene

        See? Muons at work. 🙂

    • Jim Bass moved over to Leonardo as a consultant once JMP closed their plant in Doral (~March 2016) to study roboticization — in connection with a proposed effort with Di Giovanni (JMP owner) to further develop the technology that JMP was investigating with their plant.

    • JMP plant was also in a shipping container, wrapped in black insulation.

      • Jas

        If you want a good laugh then go to the Lenr Forum and read Dewey dismiss this report as nonsense. A few people tell him to shut up.

        • Bicke Dutte

          I’ve been following his ramblings for a year, can’t wait to read that.
          Truly the best timeline!

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Was that (1) the customer? Or do I interpret the statement (2) wrongly?

      (1) http://www.sicllc.net/

      (2) See 207-19 (Exhibit 19), p. 219 (14 in the PDF).

      • Nice find!

        But it’s likely a small error in testimony. Southern Industrial Constructors was previously tied to a location used by Rossi in North Carolina!

        See http://disq.us/p/k42xy8

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Most likely. They considered this company as a possible customer in NC. (see p. 192). But that idea has obviously not been realized.

    • wpj

      Interesting in -47 that Darden says in an email that some reactors work and some don’t.

      • Stanny Demesmaker

        Mr Tom – (I can’t remember that / I don’t know) – Darden 🙂 He indicates that there could be fraud, and then IH still cashes 50 million dollar of WF in the meanwhile, who is then the fraud?

    • Barbierir

      It seems 197-03 is the Penon report

      • It is. But we’ve already seen key pieces of it so not much drama there.

        The flow meter being marked as on the return pipe from the JMP side to the 1MW side will be an item of import.

        Basically, IMO… not much question steam was produced at 103+ deg C. Not much question cold water on input. Thus it comes down to if the water flow was measured accurately or not. If it’s right or off by less than a factor of ~10 then we have an over-unity technology.

        • wpj

          The Bass deposition (-48) certainly implies that there wasn’t much going on in the JM side of the warehouse.

  • New court docs = TREASURE TROVE.

    Reading thru some of Rossi’s video testimony… under oath he says ‘customer side’ had platinum sponges and graphene… He measured steam temp with a Penon thermometer but Penon also collected data electronically from thermocouples and stored on computer… Fabiani took separate set of measurements at Darden’s request…

    • Heat escape mystery TWIST… second story window completely removed from office portion of warehouse…

      • Phillip

        Some takeaways–
        1) All collected data was destroyed except for the daily summary everybody has seen. Despite, according to Rossi, there at some point was terrabytes of data collected.
        2) All emails between Penon / Rossi / Fabiani during the test were destroyed
        3) “Customer” equipment was all dismantled, no receipts, diagrams, for any of it exist
        4) Piping to “customer” side was dismantled, no receipts, non-rudimentary diagrams exist for any of those connections
        5) Customer was Rossi

        • Now it gets very very dark for Rossi.
          Looks like the crappy Gullström paper was an attempt to divert his followers from the court case.

          • Bicke Dutte

            No, it only looks dark for IH and friends, who could have scrounged info on Rossi’s IP, from all of this

    • Fabiani and Bass worked together on control system for JMP side.

    • Husky

      Where do you see video testimony?

    • Rossi has trouble swallowing… needs surgery!

      • Rene

        See? Muons at work. 🙂

    • Jim Bass moved over to Leonardo as a consultant once JMP closed their plant in Doral (~March 2016) to study roboticization — in connection with a proposed effort with Di Giovanni (JMP owner) to further develop the technology that JMP was investigating with their plant.

    • JMP plant was also in a shipping container, wrapped in black insulation.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Was that (1) the customer? Or do I interpret the statement (2) wrongly?

      (1) http://www.sicllc.net/

      (2) See 207-19 (Exhibit 19), p. 219 (14 in the PDF).

      • Nice find!

        But it’s likely a small error in testimony. Southern Industrial Constructors was previously tied to a location used by Rossi in North Carolina!

        See http://disq.us/p/k42xy8

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Most likely. They considered this company as a possible customer in NC. (see p. 192). But that idea has obviously not been realized.

    • wpj

      Interesting in -47 that Darden says in an email that some reactors work and some don’t.

      • Stanny Demesmaker

        Mr Tom – (I can’t remember that / I don’t know) – Darden 🙂 He indicates that there could be fraud, and then IH still cashes 50 million dollar of WF in the meanwhile, who is then the fraud?

    • Barbierir

      It seems 197-03 is the Penon report

      And there is Barry West testimony in 207-61 and from a quick reading it doesn’t look good at all for Rossi

      • It is. But we’ve already seen key pieces of it so not much drama there.

        The flow meter being marked as on the return pipe from the JMP side to the 1MW side will be an item of import.

        Basically, IMO… not much question steam was produced at 103+ deg C. Not much question cold water on input. Thus it comes down to if the water flow was measured accurately or not. If it’s right or off by less than a factor of ~10 then we have an over-unity technology.

        • wpj

          The Bass deposition (-48) certainly implies that there wasn’t much going on in the JM side of the warehouse.

  • Zephir

    it just seems for me, that Gullström-Rossi report completely neglected the heat input from outside: the working temperature of reactor must be somehow reached and this heat isn’t for free, especially not at high temperatures. Other than that, these experiments should be easy to replicate, as there are anecdotal reports about palladium glow discharge tube filled with hydrogen, which kept itself in glowing state, once the electricity passed through it. I presume, the QuarkX device would work in similar way. What I meant with it was, we already have enough of information for independent research of the same arrangement. Of course there can be some hidden tricks, but given the reliability and efficiency reported, I wouldn’t consider serious problem with it.

    • As far as I understand, the Quark doesn’t need to be heated for the reaction to start. It’s instant on, triggered by electricity and maybe something else.

      • Omega Z

        According to a couple responses from Rossi on JONP, if not instant on, the reaction starts within seconds at least.

  • Zephir

    it just seems for me, that Gullström-Rossi report completely neglected the heat input from outside: the working temperature of reactor must be somehow reached and this heat isn’t for free, especially not at high temperatures. Other than that, these experiments should be easy to replicate, as there are anecdotal reports about palladium glow discharge tube filled with hydrogen, which kept itself in glowing state, once the electricity passed through it. I presume, the QuarkX device would work in similar way. What I meant with it was, we already have enough of information for independent research of the same arrangement. Of course there can be some hidden tricks, but given the reliability and efficiency reported, I wouldn’t consider serious problem with it.

    • As far as I understand, the Quark doesn’t need to be heated for the reaction to start. It’s instant on, triggered by electricity and maybe something else.

      • Omega Z

        According to a couple responses from Rossi on JONP, if not instant on, the reaction starts within seconds at least.

  • Jas

    If you want a good laugh then go to the Lenr Forum and read Dewey dismiss this report as nonsense. A few people tell him to shut up.

  • Axil Axil

    What the paper is postulating is that the nature of the fundamental forces don’t always behave as science says. That means that the fundamental forces are not actually fundamental. These forces emerge from more fundamental properties of nature that can direct them. There are special conditions that magnetic fields produce that changes the way the strong and the weak force can control matter.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      It’s somewhat scary to imagine what the existence of a long-range strong force component might imply…

      • radvar

        Bell’s Theorem opens the door for all the weirdness we will ever need.

    • guitarwebs

      now you are on the right track…the true nature of the aether is being exposed.

  • Axil Axil

    What the paper is postulating is that the nature of the fundamental forces don’t always behave as science says. That means that the fundamental forces are not actually fundamental. These forces emerge from more fundamental properties of nature that can direct them. There are special conditions that magnetic fields produce that changes the way the strong and the weak force can control matter.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      It’s somewhat scary to imagine what the existence of a long-range strong force component might imply…

    • guitarwebs

      now you are on the right track…the true nature of the aether is being exposed.

  • bachcole

    Me to.
    Gullström just makes it “Rossi says” enhanced.

  • Now it gets very very dark for Rossi.
    Looks like the crappy Gullström paper was an attempt to divert his followers from the court case.

    • Bicke Dutte

      No, it only looks dark for IH and friends, who could have scrounged info on Rossi’s IP, from all of this

  • Regarding the court documents – could someone explain what [proposed] means at the beginning of court orders; If it’s only a proposed order, when will the decision on the order be made, and are there any examples in the court docket of proposed orders that have later been confirmed or rejected?

    • The judge will often ask the side requesting an order to write the draft for it and this gets marked [Proposed].

      I’ve read where judges usually don’t do this until after a judgement has been made (so the order will eventually almost certainly be approved) and the purpose of the draft is to allow the sides to haggle over the exact terms/wording as necessary. However, it is not clear if that rule of thumb applies with these judges.

  • Regarding the court documents – could someone explain what [proposed] means at the beginning of court orders; If it’s only a proposed order, when will the decision on the order be made, and are there any examples in the court docket of proposed orders that have later been confirmed or rejected?

    • Phillip

      One side puts forth a motion that the judge make a particular order, and draft’s their suggested wording for that order.

      The judge, typically within a few days, rejects the order, or accepts and signs the proposed order.

      See Doc 174 as the plaintiff’s motion, 174-01 as proposed text of the order, and 176 as the Judge’s response denying that motion.

    • The judge will often ask the side requesting an order to write the draft for it and this gets marked [Proposed].

      I’ve read where judges usually don’t do this until after a judgement has been made (so the order will eventually almost certainly be approved) and the purpose of the draft is to allow the sides to haggle over the exact terms/wording as necessary. However, it is not clear if that rule of thumb applies with these judges.

  • Frank Acland

    I have put up a new thread for discussion of the Penon report and other new court documents here, http://www.e-catworld.com/2017/03/23/rossi-v-ih-final-penon-report-published-in-court-documents-among-many-others-plant-consistently-produced-energy-that-is-at-least-six-times-greater-than-the-energy-consumed/

    Let’s keep this thread for discussion of the Gullstrom-Rossi paper.

  • Frank Acland

    I have put up a new thread for discussion of the Penon report and other new court documents here, http://www.e-catworld.com/2017/03/23/rossi-v-ih-final-penon-report-published-in-court-documents-among-many-others-plant-consistently-produced-energy-that-is-at-least-six-times-greater-than-the-energy-consumed/

    Let’s keep this thread for discussion of the Gullstrom-Rossi paper.

  • Omega Z

    If your contradiction in terms is about of the grid cheap energy,

    People have very simplistic views on this. People are clueless about the cost and maintenance of maintaining our energy systems and all the redundancies that keep it reliable. We do not see it thanks to our modern convenience of just flip a switch mentality. Once you put it in your home, that all changes.

    When you get home, will you have lights. How many days till a technician is available. Will they need to order the parts etc, etc..

    I think people will opt for a standard $30 a month utility bill. Cheaper then an anual system recharge that technician will charge and none of the worries.

    From the Grid: No heat system disposal or utilization cost, No peak demand capacity(This would be a huge individual cost. Likely 5x what a utility would need).

    Note: I envision a small local grid system without the costs of transmitting energy 100’s of miles from a large central power plant.

    • roseland67

      My comment was in response to Omega first post,
      “It receives continuous input power while in continuous self sustain mode”

      • Omega Z

        OK,

        From what Rossi answered to a question, Even in self sustain, it requires some power input. I assume a lower level of input.

        Also, Rossi claim the same for the 1MW plant. Even in self sustain with 1MW output, it still required between 8K to 13K of input.

        Also, Mouse/Cat- Mouse required input even when the cat was in self sustain.

        I actually suspected this clear back during the Ferrara, Italy test that brought about the Lugano test. About 10 watts unaccounted for.

        It appears some kind of stimulation is required to maintain self sustain…
        —————————————————————————
        Rossi dribbles information out and I think this hurts his credibility. But it’s always possible that’s his intent. If completely believable, how many people would be jumping in to compete.

        I also think the technology works. Except sometimes. That makes it not ready for market.

  • Omega Z

    Dear Dr Rossi,

    There is a typo in the report published on Arxiv : current in Amps not Volts …
    “Input: 0.105 V of direct current over a 1 Ohm resistance”

    Regards, Michel
    —————————————————————-
    Michel:

    V/ Ohm = A: it’s obvious. But I admit that the way we wrote it can be confusing, albeit the meaning is obvious: the input of direct current ( obviously A) is given by a voltage of .105 over 1 Ohm.

    Warm Regards, A.R.

    • Gerard McEk

      It is clear that the calculated input power for the plasma is wrongly calculated. It is the power over the input resistor, not over the plasma. The COP (22,223) cannot be calculated, based on the provided data. It can be any value.

      • Observer

        Rossi Blog:
        March 23, 2017

        Question:
        In your recently described experiment, is the one ohm resistance the ballast resistance, the steady-state plasma resistance, or a combination of both?

        Andrea Rossi’s Answer:
        A combination of both.

        • Zephir

          In this moment A. Rossi is losing it definitely, because no plasma would leave the 0.1 V voltage drop

          • Observer

            Who told you that Rossi’s plasma was low pressure?

          • Zephir

            Me356 did use low pressure hydrogen discharge. Regarding the A. Rossi I’m not sure, but the higher pressure would increase the ignition voltage even more. See also my comment bellow http://disq.us/p/1hacvt1

          • Obsever

            Go back to the picture of the quark x rossi released earlier.

            http://ecat.com/news/ecat-quark-x-preliminary-report-findings

            What color is the plasma?

          • Zephir

            Yes, it’s also the pink color of low pressure hydrogen discharge. At higher pressures the spectra of gases get white color due to washing out the spectral lines. And the reactor is surrounded with blue glow of Cherenkov radiation released by particles of unknown origin (probably the electrons given the size of that glow).

          • Zephir

            Yes, it’s the typical pink color of low pressure hydrogen discharge. It could be also nitrogen, though…

            https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Gase-in-Entladungsroehren.jpg/800px-Gase-in-Entladungsroehren.jpg

            At higher pressures the spectra of gases get white color due to washing out the spectral lines. And the reactor is surrounded with blue glow of Cherenkov radiation released by particles of unknown origin (probably the electrons given the size of that glow).

          • Rene

            I think at this point I conclude there is, again, deliberate obfuscation going on in that paper to basically makes those claims unverifiable, even incalculable. Very disappointed in Rossi again. He may have something but he is making it impossible to verify.

  • Omega Z

    Dear Dr Rossi,

    There is a typo in the report published on Arxiv : current in Amps not Volts …
    “Input: 0.105 V of direct current over a 1 Ohm resistance”

    Regards, Michel
    —————————————————————-
    Michel:

    V/ Ohm = A: it’s obvious. But I admit that the way we wrote it can be confusing, albeit the meaning is obvious: the input of direct current ( obviously A) is given by a voltage of .105 over 1 Ohm.

    Warm Regards, A.R.

    • Gerard McEk

      It is clear that the calculated input power for the plasma is wrongly calculated. It is the power over the input resistor, not over the plasma. The COP (22,223) cannot be calculated, based on the provided data. It can be any value.

  • hunfgerh

    Electron capture – the hole repair

    The e-capture of a shell electron by a nuclear proton leads to an electron hole
    in the k-shell. This hole is simultaneously repaired by moving electrons from
    higher shells to the k-shell. Here, energy is released in the form of radiation E = h ν. The wavelength of the radiation is in the range (IR – UV = 10exp-6 – 10exp-7 m).
    For e-capture reactions, it is thus necessary to distinguish between the endothermic reaction (p+ + e-) = n and the exergonic hole repair of the electron shell.
    Maybe this could explain:
    “Energy output: The wavelength of the radiations out of the reactor has been measured by a spectrometer ( Stellar Net spectrometer 350-1150 nm ) and was integrated with the value of 1100 nm ( 1.1 microns ).

  • hunfgerh

    Electron capture – the hole repair

    The e-capture of a shell electron by a nuclear proton leads to an electron hole
    in the k-shell. This hole is simultaneously repaired by moving electrons from
    higher shells to the k-shell. Here, energy is released in the form of radiation E = h ν. The wavelength of the radiation is in the range (IR – UV = 10exp-6 – 10exp-7 m).
    For e-capture reactions, it is thus necessary to distinguish between the endothermic reaction (p+ + e-) = n and the exergonic hole repair of the electron shell.
    Maybe this could explain:
    “Energy output: The wavelength of the radiations out of the reactor has been measured by a spectrometer ( Stellar Net spectrometer 350-1150 nm ) and was integrated with the value of 1100 nm ( 1.1 microns ).

  • Zephir

    /* A simple calculation using Ohm’s Law (.105 V / 1 Ohm = .105 A) gives the input power of 0.01102 Watts (.105 x .105) To calculate COP: 244.9 (W out) / 0.01102 (W in) COP = 22,223.23049 */

    The input power was undoubtedly higher, as the study in question explicitly says, that the voltage given (0.105 V) is the voltage on the 1 Ohm shunt resistor – not the reactor itself. Given the distance of nickel electrodes 2.5 cm, the actual voltage could be four orders higher (you’ll need roughly 1 kV/mm in air at room pressure for to achieve a discharge) – and after then the COP ~ 22.000 would shrink to some COP ~ 2.2 i.e. 220 %.

    BTW The radiation area 1 cm2 is also pretty small and it would correspond roughly the 1 mm diameter of reactor, so that the diameter of nickel electrodes must be definitely smaller. Which surface temperature the wire of diameter 1 mm and length 25 mm could get, if we introduce a power W = 25 kV x 0.1 A = 2.5 kWatt? Well, pretty high and the temperature achieved would correspond the 2.5 kWatt incandescent lightbulb.

    Does the result presented corresponds some actual overunity, after then? I wouldn’t say yes at the very first look.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Actually, the 1kV/mm is the dielectric breakdown potential. Once ionized, the voltage could drop substantially.

      • Zephir

        Yes, but it cannot drop too much. For example the voltage at neon lamp is still some 60 V and the voltages bellow few eV are prohibited with quantum mechanics. But people at lenr-forum provided a better explanation of this controversy: A. Rossi did actually use voltage spikes (pulses) and he just reported the average values of voltage/current. After all, the usage of pulses (voltage spikes) gives a good meaning in LENR. Piantelli and Defkalion also initiated their fusion experiments with sparks or voltage spikes.

    • US_Citizen71

      Interestingly enough:
      JONP
      Michel
      March 24, 2017 at 4:13 PM
      Dear Dr Rossi,

      About the Arxiv publication, could you clarify the input power ?

      I suppose the 1 Ohm refers to a shunt resistor, the 0.105V beeing the voltage between the terminals of the resistor.
      This voltage would give the input current measurement, so 0.105A.
      If correct, then we need the input voltage to get the input power, for example 24V DC. Could you give the correct value?
      In this example (24V x 0.105A) would give 2.52W input power.

      If the 1 Ohm is the input impedance of the reactor, then ok the input power is 0.105×0.105/1 = 11mW

      Regards,

      Michel

      Andrea Rossi
      March 24, 2017 at 6:54 PM
      Michel:
      It is the input impedance of the reactor.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

    • Rene

      It is the input impedance of the reactor.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.
      And there, it was *not* a shunt resistor being measured. How weird is that?

      • Zephir

        Why the shunt resistor was there after all? How it comes, that the resistance of reactor is exactly 1 Ohm? More question than answers…

        • US_Citizen71

          Maybe the core is carbon and housed inside a quartz glass or other high temperature resistant ceramic tube either at vacuum or with a noble gas surrounding it? The carbon tube would present the same problem Edison had, so why not use a similar solution? This might account for use of spectrography for the temperature measurement as well since the surface wouldn’t be accessible. A 11mW draw light bulb that produces 220W equivalence of light would have uses and with the right outer tube much of the heat could be passed through. I know there are ceramic glasses that pass 80% upwards of IR through.

  • Zephir

    /* A simple calculation using Ohm’s Law (.105 V / 1 Ohm = .105 A) gives the input power of 0.01102 Watts (.105 x .105) To calculate COP: 244.9 (W out) / 0.01102 (W in) COP = 22,223.23049 */

    The input power was undoubtedly higher, as the study in question explicitly says, that the voltage given (0.105 V) is the voltage on the 1 Ohm shunt resistor – not the reactor itself. Given the distance of nickel electrodes 2.5 cm, the actual voltage could be four orders higher (you’ll need roughly 1 kV/mm in air at room pressure for to achieve a discharge) – and after then the COP ~ 22.000 would shrink to some COP ~ 2.2 i.e. 220 %.

    BTW The radiation area 1 cm2 is also pretty small and it would correspond roughly the 1 mm diameter of reactor, so that the diameter of nickel electrodes must be definitely smaller. Which surface temperature the wire of diameter 1 mm and length 25 mm could get, if we introduce a power W = 25 kV x 0.1 A = 2.5 kWatt? Well, pretty high and the temperature achieved would correspond the 2.5 kWatt incandescent lightbulb.

    Does the result presented correspond some actual overunity, after then? I wouldn’t say yes at the very first look.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Actually, the 1kV/mm is the dielectric breakdown potential. Once ionized, the voltage could drop substantially.

      • Zephir

        Yes, but it cannot drop too much. For example the voltage at neon lamp is still some 60 V and the voltages bellow few eV are prohibited with quantum mechanics. But people at lenr-forum provided a better explanation of this controversy: A. Rossi did actually use voltage spikes (pulses) and he just reported the average values of voltage/current. After all, the usage of pulses (voltage spikes) gives a good meaning in LENR. Piantelli and Defkalion also initiated their fusion experiments with sparks or voltage spikes.

    • US_Citizen71

      Interestingly enough:
      JONP
      Michel
      March 24, 2017 at 4:13 PM
      Dear Dr Rossi,

      About the Arxiv publication, could you clarify the input power ?

      I suppose the 1 Ohm refers to a shunt resistor, the 0.105V beeing the voltage between the terminals of the resistor.
      This voltage would give the input current measurement, so 0.105A.
      If correct, then we need the input voltage to get the input power, for example 24V DC. Could you give the correct value?
      In this example (24V x 0.105A) would give 2.52W input power.

      If the 1 Ohm is the input impedance of the reactor, then ok the input power is 0.105×0.105/1 = 11mW

      Regards,

      Michel

      Andrea Rossi
      March 24, 2017 at 6:54 PM
      Michel:
      It is the input impedance of the reactor.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

    • Rene

      It is the input impedance of the reactor.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.
      And there, it was *not* a shunt resistor being measured. How weird is that?

      • Zephir

        /* The circuit of the apparatus is made by a power source to supply direct current, a load made a 1 Ohm resistance, a reactor containing two nickel rods with LiAlH4 separated by 1.5 cm of space. */

        Why the shunt resistor was there after all? Why the load is mentioned there separately? How it comes, that the resistance of reactor is exactly 1 Ohm? More question than answers…

        If the 1 Ohm is the impedance of the whole reactor and it’s emissivity is ǫ = 0.9 (see the gullstrom’s article), it would imply, that the whole reactor is formed with graphite pipe. Such a pipe would burn pretty quickly on air at the temperature given, not to say, it couldn’t be very robust.

        • US_Citizen71

          Maybe the core is carbon and housed inside a quartz glass or other high temperature resistant ceramic tube either at vacuum or with a noble gas surrounding it? The carbon tube would present the same problem Edison had, so why not use a similar solution? This might account for use of spectrography for the temperature measurement as well since the surface wouldn’t be accessible. A 11mW draw light bulb that produces 244.9W equivalence of light would have uses and with the right outer tube much of the heat could be passed through. I know there are ceramic glasses that pass 80% plus of IR through.

          edit: You might be able to use it like Mills is planning on using the SunCell.

        • TVulgaris

          Load is load, a shunt is a fraction of load. It does not state the resistor shunts the current in the paper anywhere, it suggests more that it is a series resistance- so, a trim, more likely, to make the load resistance a convenient value. The impedance, to disagree with Rene somewhat, could be substantially

          different due to transient and pulse-resultant effects from unaccounted capacitances and inductances , so the power and CoP figures could be substantially different from calculated- but not by 3 orders of magnitude

  • Zephir

    In this moment A. Rossi is losing it definitely, because no plasma would leave the 0.1 V voltage drop, not to say in serial connection with some resistor and reactor​. For example the voltage drop across the arc is 15 to 20 volts when using C-276 alloy arc welding – which is essentially a short circuit situation at room pressure. The arc at lower pressure would leave voltage drop even higher according to Paschen’s law. There is still a possibility, that massive emission of charged particles from LENR zone would keep plasma more conductive, but such a low voltage drop is still physically unrealistic. At any case, once the voltage was measured with reactor (of unknown resistance) and shunt 1 Ohm resistor in serial, then the actual power yield cannot be estimated anyway.

    • Rene

      I think at this point I conclude there is, again, deliberate obfuscation going on in that paper to basically makes those claims unverifiable, even incalculable. Very disappointed in Rossi again. He may have something but he is making it impossible to verify.

  • Jouni Tuomela

    Please consider reading this:
    https://phys.org/news/2017-03-laser-energy-plasma.html
    They see several forces. Do those have anything to do with the phenomena what we have seen been happening?

    • Axil Axil

      This mechanism is how the Papp engine works as follows:

      https://arxiv.org/pdf/1006.1725

      Ionization and Coulomb explosion of Xenon clusters by intense, few-cycle laser pulses

      The power of the Papp engine came from the Coulomb explosion of noble gas clusters. The energy released by the explosion is proportional to the number of noble gas atoms in the cluster and the duration o the light pulse that triggered the coulomb explosion. The noble gas clusters were generated in the vacuum cycle of the non active piston.

      A large exploding noble gas cluster can produce as much as 2 MeV in energy.

      The laser…

      The XUV excitation pulses came from the chlorine in the noble gas mix as activated by the ignition spark.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excimer_laser

      Construction

      An excimer laser typically uses a combination of a noble gas (argon, krypton, or xenon) and a reactive gas (fluorine or chlorine). Under the appropriate conditions of electrical stimulation and high pressure, a pseudo-molecule called an excimer (or in the case of noble gas halides, exciplex) is created, which can only exist in an energized state and can give rise to laser light in the ultraviolet range.

      Papp polished the interior of the engine to reflect the excitation light created by the Excimer_laser discharge.

      http://www.ehu.es/chemistry/theory/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Fig1.jpg

      The ions attain their kinetic energy from the conversion of the electrostatic repulsive energy in the cluster; the ions are too heavy to be accelerated directly by the rapidly oscillating laser electric field. Depending on the ion charges, the initial cluster/nanodroplet radius, the level and speed of the outer ionization process, the ion energies are in the keV to MeV range which is sufficient to induce nuclear fusion, if hydrogen isotopes are involved. Accordingly, possible applications of Coulomb explosions are table-top laser-induced nuclear fusion and neutron sources for material research [7-9] the study of stellar nucleosynthesis in the laboratory [10,11] (“stars in the lab” [12]), as well as particle accelerators.

  • Jouni Tuomela

    Please consider reading this:
    https://phys.org/news/2017-03-laser-energy-plasma.html
    They see several forces. Do those have anything to do with the phenomena what we have seen been happening?

    “An interesting conundrum that has not been considered before is the question of where laser energy goes after being deposited in plasma. We know where some of this energy goes because of the presence of high-energy electrons emitted in a narrow, forward directed beam.
    “One of these beams is emitted by a sling-shot action into a broad forward-directed cone, with several MeV (mega electron volt) energies and nanocoulomb-level charge. Paradoxically, another beam is emitted in the backward direction, which has similar charge but an energy of around 200 keV (kilo electron volt). These beams carry off a significant amount of energy from the plasma bubble.
    “It is interesting to observe that answering a very basic question – where does the laser energy go? – yields surprising and paradoxical answers. Introducing a new technology, such as the laser-wakefield accelerator, can change the way we think about accelerators. The result is a very novel source of several charge particle beams emitted simultaneously.
    “My research group has shown that the wakefield accelerator produces three beams, two of which are low energy and high charge, and the third, high energy and low charge.”

    Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-03-laser-energy-plasma.html#jCp

    • Axil Axil

      This mechanism is how the Papp engine works as follows:

      https://arxiv.org/pdf/1006.1725

      Ionization and Coulomb explosion of Xenon clusters by intense, few-cycle laser pulses

      The power of the Papp engine came from the Coulomb explosion of noble gas clusters. The energy released by the explosion is proportional to the number of noble gas atoms in the cluster and the duration o the light pulse that triggered the coulomb explosion. The noble gas clusters were generated in the vacuum cycle of the non active piston.

      A large exploding noble gas cluster can produce as much as 2 MeV in energy.

      The laser…

      The XUV excitation pulses came from the chlorine in the noble gas mix as activated by the ignition spark.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excimer_laser

      Construction

      An excimer laser typically uses a combination of a noble gas (argon, krypton, or xenon) and a reactive gas (fluorine or chlorine). Under the appropriate conditions of electrical stimulation and high pressure, a pseudo-molecule called an excimer (or in the case of noble gas halides, exciplex) is created, which can only exist in an energized state and can give rise to laser light in the ultraviolet range.

      Papp polished the interior of the engine to reflect the excitation light created by the Excimer_laser discharge.

      http://www.ehu.es/chemistry/theory/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Fig1.jpg

      The ions attain their kinetic energy from the conversion of the electrostatic repulsive energy in the cluster; the ions are too heavy to be accelerated directly by the rapidly oscillating laser electric field. Depending on the ion charges, the initial cluster/nanodroplet radius, the level and speed of the outer ionization process, the ion energies are in the keV to MeV range which is sufficient to induce nuclear fusion, if hydrogen isotopes are involved. Accordingly, possible applications of Coulomb explosions are table-top laser-induced nuclear fusion and neutron sources for material research [7-9] the study of stellar nucleosynthesis in the laboratory [10,11] (“stars in the lab” [12]), as well as particle accelerators.

  • giovanniontheweb

    nice mix of inconsistent discussions here, applying static temperature and Ohm’s Law concepts to plasma it comes to the same as to apply a river flow to sea waves. Step back to better jump might apply.

    • Rene

      It is the input impedance of the reactor.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

  • giovanniontheweb

    nice mix of inconsistent discussions here, applying static temperature and Ohm’s Law concepts to plasma it comes to the same as to apply a river flow to sea waves. Step back to better jump might apply.

    • Rene

      It is the input impedance of the reactor.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

  • Zephir

    Me356 did use low pressure hydrogen discharge. Regarding the A. Rossi I’m not sure, but the higher pressure would increase the ignition voltage even more. See also my comment bellow http://disq.us/p/1hacvt1

  • hunfgerh

    Assuming an e-capture mechanism based on nanoscallated superconductors;
    The values:

    R = 1 Ohm , U = 0,105 Volt

    are absolutely realistic for the circuit.

    • Axil Axil

      Does this mean that this level of current flow is caused by Crossed Andreev reflection between two normal electrodes separated by a superconductive plasma?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreev_reflection

    • Axil Axil

      The current flow of R = 1 Ohm , U = 0.105 Volt may be caused by nanoscale superconductivity were the plasma is an imperfect superconductor where the current flow is caused by a pseudogap.​

      High-temperature superconductivity doesn’t happen all at once. As doping increases, superconductivity starts in isolated nanoscale patches that gradually expand until they take over. In this case, superconductive quasiparticles develop in the plasma so that electrons tunnel between the patches of superconductivity resulting in a pseudogap​.

      Does this mean that this level of current flow is caused by Crossed Andreev reflection between two normal electrodes separated by an imperfectly developing superconductive plasma?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreev_reflection​

      • hunfgerh

        Sorry, I can not answer your question. Maybe someone else is trying.

  • hunfgerh

    Assuming an e-capture mechanism based on nanoscallated superconductors;
    The values:

    R = 1 Ohm , U = 0,105 Volt

    are absolutely realistic for the circuit.

    • Axil Axil

      Does this mean that this level of current flow is caused by Crossed Andreev reflection between two normal electrodes separated by a superconductive plasma?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreev_reflection

    • Axil Axil

      The current flow of R = 1 Ohm , U = 0.105 Volt may be caused by nanoscale superconductivity were the plasma is an imperfect superconductor and the current flow is caused by a pseudogap.​

      High-temperature superconductivity doesn’t happen all at once. As doping increases, superconductivity starts in isolated nanoscale patches that gradually expand until they take over. In this case, superconductive quasiparticles develop in the plasma so that electrons tunnel between the patches of superconductivity resulting in a pseudogap​.

      Does this mean that this level of current flow is caused by Crossed Andreev reflection between two normal electrodes separated by an imperfectly developing superconductive plasma?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreev_reflection​

      • hunfgerh

        Sorry, I can not answer your question. Maybe someone else is trying.

  • sam
  • Paul Maher

    Oh Baby, Is this as good as I think it is?? It’s the first time I’ve seen an address posted for one of Rossi’s experiments. Red Letter Day?
    @pmaher_art

  • sam

    Frank Acland
    March 27, 2017 at 8:41 AM
    Dear Andrea,

    You mention making a simulation of large scale production of QuarkXes.

    Is this a software simulation, or actually combining QuarkXes in an industrial-size unit?

    Thank you,

    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi
    March 27, 2017 at 9:49 AM
    Frank Acland:
    We are working in this very moment on both issues.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    March 27, 2017 at 8:06 AM
    Dear Readers:
    Yesterday this blog has been unaccessible for several hours during the afternoon for a hacking attack. Our IP guy has repristinated all well in short time.
    Sorry for the gap of accessibility.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • sam

    Anonymous
    March 29, 2017 at 8:29 PM
    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    From what we can see in the Gullstrom-Rossi paper, the energy density of the QuarkX is stunning.

    Andrea Rossi
    March 30, 2017 at 10:09 AM
    Anonymous:
    The Gullstrom-Rossi paper is the beginning of a long work still to do and many verifications, included third parties verifications, have still to be made.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Prof
    March 29, 2017 at 8:34 PM
    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    Congratulations for the model you offered for the neutron decay: you would make a fantastic teacher.
    Cheers.
    Prof

    Translate
    Andrea Rossi
    March 30, 2017 at 10:07 AM
    Prof:
    Thank you!
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • sam

    Anonymous
    March 29, 2017 at 8:29 PM
    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    From what we can see in the Gullstrom-Rossi paper, the energy density of the QuarkX is stunning.

    Andrea Rossi
    March 30, 2017 at 10:09 AM
    Anonymous:
    The Gullstrom-Rossi paper is the beginning of a long work still to do and many verifications, included third parties verifications, have still to be made.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Prof
    March 29, 2017 at 8:34 PM
    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    Congratulations for the model you offered for the neutron decay: you would make a fantastic teacher.
    Cheers.
    Prof

    Translate
    Andrea Rossi
    March 30, 2017 at 10:07 AM
    Prof:
    Thank you!
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Axil Axil

    Rossi et al are confusing cause and effect. The strong and the weak force produce nuclear change and the subatomic particles are the effects of how those forces function. The strong and the weak force produce the pion, muons, and mesons that Rossi is now factoring into his theory. But these particles are just the effects of what the strong force is doing in LENR. LENR is a condition where the strong force changes the way it behaves. The particles are the results of this change in behavior.

    Professional science states the the fundamental forces of nature cannot change unless they are affected by the application of extremes in energy. If enough energy is present, then the fundamental forces will gradually become unified. This is the main tenet in supersymmetry. This misconception is where science is going wrong in their understanding of reality. The action of the fundamental forces can be changed by special very low energy electromagnetic formating.

    As witnessed by LENR, the fundamental forces do not behave in this high energy driven way. As Rossi states, these forces change when a special type of magnetism is applied to the fundamental forces of nature. Rossi has picked the quadrupole magnetic force as the factor that changes the action of the fundamental forces. This pick is wrong. Informed by other LENR experimentation, we know that the proper LENR active magnetic force format is the monopole magnetic force.

    But even with this small bit of theoretical misdirection, we must give him his due. Rossi is very close to having LENR theory correct in its most basic aspects.

  • Axil Axil

    Rossi et al are confusing cause and effect. The strong and the weak force produce nuclear change and the subatomic particles are the effects of how those forces function. The strong and the weak force produce the pion, muons, and mesons that Rossi is now factoring into his theory. But these particles are just the effects of what the strong force is doing in LENR. LENR is a condition where the strong force changes the way it behaves. The particles are the results of this change in behavior.

    Professional science states the the fundamental forces of nature cannot change unless they are affected by the application of extremes in energy. If enough energy is present, then the fundamental forces will gradually become unified. This is the main tenet in supersymmetry and the standard model. This misconception is where science is going wrong in their understanding of reality. The action of the fundamental forces can be changed by special very low energy electromagnetic formating.

    https://dulwichscience.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/fig5.png

    As witnessed by LENR, the fundamental forces do not behave in this high energy driven way. As Rossi states, these forces change when a special type of magnetism is applied to the fundamental forces of nature. Rossi has picked the quadrupole magnetic force as the factor that changes the action of the fundamental forces. This pick is wrong. Informed by other LENR experimentation, we know that the proper LENR active magnetic force format is the monopole magnetic force.

    But even with this small bit of theoretical misdirection, we must give him his due. Rossi is very close to having LENR theory correct in its most basic aspects.

  • Melchior

    Paul Wigner (Nobel Laureate 1963) on “Nuclear reactions in distant collisions”: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1a1d04719ee033c3391a820e16eba0f264c3f3b99aa3ef4b2713c80f44387b44.png

    “The Fact that nuclear reactions of the type Au197 + N14 -> Au198 + N13 (“nuclear transfer reactions”) take place at energies at witch the colliding nuclei do not come in contact is an interesting though little advertised discovery”

    https://books.google.it/books?id=QHnmCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA264&lpg=PA264&dq=nucleon+transfer+tunnel&source=bl&ots=SfkqHPanq6&sig=R4AWoGzU16TVeGq0MdO1qb7WDQA&hl=it&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwju0eeRu-zSAhVqJMAKHdS1DcUQ6AEINTAE#v=onepage&q&f=false

    • Axil Axil

      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170330150733.htm

      LENR breaks down protons and neutrons into mesons and pions.

      These particles are the mechanism whereby atoms can interact via the strong force. The signa meson is the mechanism where atoms interact with each other.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalar_meson

      http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/280466/what-is-a-sigma-meson

      “If I am not mistaken σσ refers to scalar mesons (total spin 0 and even parity JP=0+JP=0+) in general. As @annav pointed out one candidate is f0(500)f0(500). Especially in effective theories of the nuclear force mesons are quiet important since there are many models describing the nuclear force with the exchange of those mesons: exchange models (see Pion-exchange model, Yukawa potential,…). How ever I think in a more modern view one uses chiral EFT with multiple pion exchanges to model the nuclear interaction. – M. J. Steil Sep 16 ’16 at 14:04”

      In Rossi’s latest theory paper:

      https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.05249.pdf

      the σ(sigma) meson (Scalar or sigma meson) is the particle that carries the strong force interaction between particles.

    • Bruce__H

      I met Wigner once when i was still an undergraduate. He came to my university to give some public talks and I was asked to take him around to see a whole group of undergraduate students (he liked talking to undergrads) for an informal lunchtime Q&A session. He was a really nice guy! One of us posed what I guess we considered a difficult question and he gave the best answer I have ever heard in that sort of context … “Please ask a simpler question”.

      It taught me that the secret technique of one of the biggest brains on the planet was to avoid tough questions and work on simple ones. Good advice!

  • Tim

    All I could get out of reading that was ‘a perfect black body’. Then I couldn’t get that image out of my mind.