MFMP Invites Crowd Engagement for Developing Testing Protocols for ECCO Device

Thanks to Bob Greenyer for announcing the creation of new live collaboration documents that are designed for the purpose of developing the test protocols for the Indian ECCO device which the MFMP have been invited to test by the lead developer, Suhas. Interested persons are invited to participate in providing input.

Here’s the introduction:

About this planning document

This document is being developed live, online and with public access to view it. It will change as we learn more about the system to be tested. It will change as we get suggestions from interested parties. We believe in the power of the crowd to process information and contribute from many perspectives to make a better overall product. We welcome suggestions from viewers of this document. If you think you know a better tool or methodology that will leave less open questions – we want to hear from you! If you cannot make edits here directly, please join the conversation on the MFMP ECCO web page.

The documents can be accessed at this link:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fIOv1GnuXHNt6KymBcebSNFrePDsaIUf1xWE1NIQzPI/pub

  • Shawn Wierzbicki

    Please invest more in public education of the importance of this technology, with possible economic ramifications of it being true and in what degrees (COP=8,30,120,20K?)

  • Bob Greenyer

    I want to thank all the members of the team that have worked on this so far, and also to Paul Breed for his contributions. We all welcome your most critical thoughts, this document will also form the template for testing me356 so it is very important to get right. Thankyou all in advance.

  • Howard Hinman

    Suggest that a professional magician be brought in along with everything else. This will minimize allegations of misrepresentation.

    • Bob Greenyer

      No such a silly idea – but then, if we had a professional magician there – people might use that against us.

      I plan to record in spherical – so people can see every angle and action.

      • Howard Hinman

        To clarify, not to be part of the experiment team, to be a third party observer. Someone who can say “I observed no sleight of hand”.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Got you – so a sceptic might be more appropriate.

  • lrao

    Bob, is it possible to run this test in a location other than mr Suhas lab?

    This way, you know that it would be much harder to use other power inputs such as RF, etc (on purpose or not) and you have a more convincing test.

    It would also be a much cleaner setup, just the Device under Test and the measurement equipment, inside a Faraday cage. That’s it. In the middle of an empty warehouse, far from doors, etc.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      <– this, too. Do not screw this up where legitimate doubts can be raised after the fact.

    • Rene

      More important than location are broad spectrum analyzers. If RF is being beamed in it will be a lot of energy, fairly straightforward to notice.

  • Zeddicus23

    Along the lines of a professional magician, I suggest that the test be run for at least several days, without refueling to ensure that the amount of energy produced is greater than could be produced chemically. If done in Suhas’ lab, then a video camera should be installed to ensure that no refueling occurs.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Got you… I think if we can verify that the flow meter reports equivalent or very close power generated to water weighing procedure – we can pipe the hot water (as close to 60ºC as possible) to a drain.

  • DaWebbie

    I’ve never been to India, but I suspect that things go on a slower pace over there. Give yourself plenty of time. Maybe Bob could go a couple days before everyone else to get things started, if possible.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Oh, it does, I have best part of a decade experience in India, living, working, running business – sometimes just ordering a simple thing can be a nightmare.

      I am considering to go sooner.

      Much of the equipment will be coming from US. However, we do hope to have most things with us and ready to roll.

      Brian Albiston has been working very hard on the integration of all the data acquisition components and we must say thankyou to me356 who, whilst he had the MFMPs PCE-830 on loan, hacked its USB protocol (since it is not published) and wrote Python script for it that has saved a ton of time. Thanks me356.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Many essential points have already been addressed in the document. In any case, it should be guaranteed that a blank run is possible. It might be even more important than the fine-tuning of measurements.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      <– this!

    • Bob Greenyer

      By blank Run – do you mean – discharge without fuel components or resistive heater replacement?

      • Andreas Moraitis

        I thought of a run with a supposedly inert ‘fuel’ (so not exactly a “blank”). For example, Gamberale used Ar instead of H in his test of the Defkalion reactor. However, I have no idea which ingredients would be suitable in the present case.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I think we would need to have something to allow the glow discharge

          But it is tough – which pieces to leave in

          – the thoriated Tungsten tapered welding rods
          – the processed Nickel foil that the welding rods pierce

          Pap claimed activity with discharges in noble gasses – would it produce excess with just Argon. Remember Ohsawa has transmutation with Carbon and Nitrogen > Al > Fe

          So is a blank really blank – we know that a resistive heater is.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Yes. But I guess Suhas could tell you which combinations do not work. You would just have to find one that confirms the possibility of a ‘neutral’ COP. A test with a resistor could certainly be useful, but it would not catch potential side effects caused by the discharge.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Well – he has not tried turning of ultrasound

            He says without ultrasound the powder would settle and short and damage reactor/fuel.

          • Gerard McEk

            If there is no hydrogen, it should not work. Another (inert gas) may be used?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Maybe they could just use the unprepared powder and leave everything else unchanged. That would meet the original conditions as close as possible. A null result with this setup would significantly reduce the risk of taking a false positive for real.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Perhaps replacing powder with something considered inert like Al2O3 and then doing it in Argon

          • Rene

            He can run with the ultrasound detuned. Keeps the stuff fluffy but not in resonance.

          • Bob Greenyer

            depends how flexible the driving circuit is – but a possibility.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    <– this, too. Do not screw this up where legitimate doubts can be raised after the fact.

  • Rene

    More important than location are broad spectrum analyzers. If RF is being beamed in it will be a lot of energy, fairly straightforward to notice.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    How about using a diesel generator with a rated output not much higher than required to run the reactor? That would both limit the possible input and protect the experiment against power outages (which might occur more often than expected in this part of the world).

    • Bob Greenyer

      Unless the reactor is re-housed – not practical there.

      we are looking at UPS

      • LT

        I have been using APC rack mounted UPS systems in server racks and was very content with them.
        Advantage is that there is a freeware app called apcupsd which you can use to set up the UPS by a configuration file. One of the computers which has this app can also broadcast UPS information to other computers over the network so they can take action when events are occurring. apcupsd is available for windows, linux. bsd .
        For a first time user there is some time needed to set it up and test the configuration, so you should use this solution only when your back-up requirements are somewhat more complex then just having power for some time and you have the time available for setting it up.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Thanks for the info.

      • roseland67

        UPS is good idea,

        I suggested this to Rossi years ago in lieu of utility connection.

        The battery energy and power density are fixed, when the battery dies, the experiment should begin to die also.
        If it doesn’t, and additional heat, (energy) is produced, kinda makes me want to go hmmmmmm, excess heat, how is that possible?

  • Bob Greenyer

    No such a silly idea – but then, if we had a professional magician there – people might use that against us.

    I plan to record in spherical – so people can see every angle and action.

    • HS61AF91

      A chance to advocate for LENR presented itself for me. There was a report in the military newspaper “Stars and Stripes” on 28 March, written by AP reporters Matthew Daily and Jill Colvin headlined “Trump tosses Obama’s ‘clean’ energy plan, embraces coal.” Since I referenced India’s ECCO in my comments, I’d like to share them here: ME: LENR is about to explode into the energy arena, and render the hem and haw of pro/con environment concerns mute. I am surprised that there is not a whimper of this revolutionary energy means squeaking out of the WH. Missing the boat of clean water, clean air, clean energy, and a whole lot more. My interlocutor: HS61AF91, you and I have had a long discussion on LENR. Last I was aware it was still a DARPA project. DARPA projects are as far as I know not well
      advanced. I know something about LENR. Where are we with moving it
      out of DARPA? On our last conversation I was dead set against it, but
      I’d like to know more about it. ME:
      Highly recommend ‘E-Cat
      World’ where one dedicated enthusiast continually brings together
      developing technological, experimental, and judicial developments
      relating to LENR. Not only in our land (E-cat, Quark X, Blilliant
      Light Power, etc.), but in India (ECCO project), in Japan (Nissan),
      in China (Ni-H System), and Russia (Parkhomov). Even Bill Gates and
      his 1 billion dollar Breakthrough Energy Ventures (BEV) investment
      getting into the act. Why we are stuck with a innovative government
      that does not do much innovating is beyond belief. Maybe it will just
      hit them in the face, when the rest of the world passes us by in new
      energy, ‘free’ energy (i.e. more out than put in) successes while we
      are putzing around with biological fermented waste products.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thanks for fighting the good fight – I am sure Suhas will be flattered to know of your words and he will read here.

        When unequivocal evidence is allowed to be accepted of safe LENR, only fools would ignore it. The folks here following ECW are at the forefront of establishing this evidence. We have all been through ups and downs on this journey – but there does now appear to be cracks in the dam of ignorance showing.

        We might reserve hubris however for when our little band of new fire warriors gets the data we need to overcome the disinformation set against us.

      • Adam Lepczak

        Government and people in power and in general run by psychopaths. They do not care about anything or anybody except their own short term interest. It is not inn the interest of people in power to liberate humanity and make basic needs cheap.

        • Khazar Agent

          I must absolutely oppose your suspicion that “… They do not care about anything or anybody except their own short term interest …”
          As every analyst may see, Donald care about interest of Khazarian people (note: in 18th Century there was invented new word for marking of Khazarian people). So your accusation is partially wrong.

      • sam

        At Brilliant light power presentation in Irving California Mills said the U.S
        Navy told them they would be
        interested when they had a functioning Sun Cell.

        • HS61AF91

          tks, I’ll pass that on.

        • Bob Greenyer

          As will everyone else.

          • Bob Greenyer

            We need to see if it does something first

          • Thomas Kaminski

            In 2007 I led a group of students in testing solar thermal arrays. Calorimetry was very important. To measure the solar array output, we used a pressure/flow controlled pump, a vane-type flow meter, and mixer/RTD temperature sensors on the input and output side of the arrays. In order to test the array, we had to control the input water temperature at a precise level over the ambient air temperature. We used three 7500 Watt heaters connected to 208V three-phase power inputs and then to a 3-phase rectifier bridge. The DC output of the rectifier bridge was then pulse-width modulated with an IGBT transistor switch to control the temperature. At a flow rate of about 3 Gallons per minute, we could raise water temperature instantly (almost) about 75 Degrees F with about 18KW of electrical power in. Here is a link to a technical presentation with pictures of some of the apparatus:

            https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0I7pqe_KM9tZElyNzVRZ01XRXM

            I would suggest that you use a constant rate (volumetric) pump to deliver water to the reactors, carefully measuring the input and output water temperature. Have the same water flow into an “instant-water-heater” with a measured amount of power in. Then measure the output water temperature. The Reactor thermal output is simply the ratio of the Delta-T from the reactor divided by the Delta-T from the electrical heater times the electrical heater power. Divide that number by the total electrical input power to drive the reaction and you get COP.

            The heaters we purchased were simple consumer items made for small water flow heaters, such as the sink in a cabin. To handle the 2.8 GPM, we plumbed three heaters in parallel. As I recall, they were less than $100 each.

            Static mixers are very important to accurately measure the water temperature and should be applied just upstream of the temperature sensors. You can purchase them, or make them yourself. A series of disks zig-zagging in a tube will suffice. For the most accurate temperature sensors, we used 100 Ohm European curve platinum wire RTDs. Our flow meter was a $1000 device with good accuracy — but you do not really need to measure the flow except for an approximate measure. Your proposed technique of diverting water to a bucket and weighing it is probably good enough. We used a 5 gallon pail and a stop watch to cross-check the flow before and after the testing run.

          • Bob Greenyer

            This is all good ideas, however the space and time is constrained.

            Out current approach is to have temperature (digital and analogue) on input and output and check valves either end with flow going from mains through reactor into buckets on scales. Alternate buckets as they fill.

            In addition, a clamp on thermal kWh meter which ultrasonically monitors flow and has a temp clamp on for input as well. This can be cross-referenced to the weighed water and temperatures collected digitally and the monitored analogue thermometers.

          • Thomas Kaminski

            It will likely work, but my experience says that using the mains pressure with a valve to regulate flow is problematic. We switched to a float-controlled tank with a static head followed by a valve to control flow. The mains pressure was all over the place. The float valve and tank were a distance above the device to set the static head pressure and thus, even out the flow through the flow-control valve.. Also, do use static mixers in the flow stream to make sure you are measuring an accurate temperature. See Wikipedia — simple to design from a series of right and left twisted metal in a tube:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_mixer

          • Bob Greenyer

            Suhas said he also used a tank in his tests and so that is possibly an option.

        • doug marker

          And that is not unreasonable an approach. What we do know of LENR & even Mills theories, is that few people in the world can claim to be expert on all or even most aspects of the technology processes and more so the theories. It is near impossible for businesses (let alone us) to choose confidently based on proof of theories because they just aren’t in place.

          So for these revolutionary new energy advances we speak of, businesses and interested organisations can only really get involved based on observation and testing the devices and deciding they can manufacture and sell them.

          And, in the case of new energy, there are massive interests (both financial and political) that are directly opposed to any sudden shift away from oil as an instrument of foreign policy that they are not part of.

          Then there are the investors who have a vested interest in locking up any and all IP they can get their hands on. This happened in the IT / Computer industry – particular companies actively went to war in the 1990s & into the 2000s, seeking to secure all patents & IP they could and began a round of lawsuits and also sabotage. Back around 2002, Sun Microsystems was awarded a $3 billion US dept of justice settlement against Microsoft who had deliberately set out to corrupt the Java browser Sun had licensed to Microsoft.
          http://www.techlawjournal.com/courts/sunwvmsft/Default.htm

          Also in the 2000s IBM was sued for $2+ Billion by a company (Caldera Inc but later renamed TheSCOGroup) claiming that the operating system called Linux was stolen from ‘their’ Unix O/S and IBM was responsible. That case was thrown out when it was proved the renamed TheSCOGroup company didn’t own Unix. Unix was shown to be really owned by a company called Novell who had bought the real SCO and sold parts (but not Unix) to Caldera Inc). These cases were fought for Billions of dollars. Energy wars are likely to be fought for Trillions of $s.
          https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/linux-kernel-lawsuit-sco-v-ibm-is-alive-13-years-and-counting/

          Back to new energy. There is no real point in wheeling along journalists to early demos as no one who matters will listen. Only when people can see something working will we make any progress, but then the energy wars will begin. Do not imagine for an instant that there will or could be a happy glorious transition to a world of near free energy, without blood and guts on the floor.

          Doug Marker
          Sydney Australia

          • HS61AF91

            very true what happens when a new phenomenon splashes upon the world. Couple of things: (1)the devices produce ‘free’ energy; (2) the implementation could parallel what happened in India with Gandhi – peaceful resistance overcame the great colonial power.

      • sam

        Thanks for mentioning my name in
        Stars and Stripes today that just made my day.

        https://www.stripes.com/news/us/trump-tosses-obama-s-clean-energy-plan-embraces-coal-1.460984#.WORBMTys_YU

        Doug Marker a smart and wise
        fellow added another reply.

  • John Page

    Add a section to calibrations section to “Validate/Confirm Faraday cage is functioning correctly. This would be an area people may attack your results, if you have not confirmed that the cage can in fact shield RF energy.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Please design the test so that you can easily turn it into a demonstration of a very practical LENR devise the mass media and general public will understand and accept as an energy breakthrough.

  • radvar

    Visuals. Not blueprints, but flow diagrams, with clear labels for the parts, and links to photos of the actual setup.

    People with expertise in the field can often keep all the associations in their heads. Adding more visuals could allow more of the less expert people to understand and meaningfully contribute, and the expert people to see relationships more quickly.

    Google apps has a very powerful drawing tool called draw.io that could be used in a collaborative way.

    I appreciate that it’s extra work, however, it could greatly increase knowledge sharing, and perhaps the work could be distributed to some of the lay audience.

    Perhaps that could be initiated by setting up a G-apps site for it, throwing in some starting materials and seeing what happens.

  • HS61AF91

    A chance to advocate for LENR presented itself for me. There was a report in the military newspaper “Stars and Stripes” on 28 March, written by AP reporters Matthew Daily and Jill Colvin headlined “Trump tosses Obama’s ‘clean’ energy plan, embraces coal.” Since I referenced India’s ECCO in my comments, I’d like to share them here: ME: LENR is about to explode into the energy arena, and render the hem and haw of pro/con environment concerns mute. I am surprised that there is not a whimper of this revolutionary energy means squeaking out of the WH. Missing the boat of clean water, clean air, clean energy, and a whole lot more. My interlocutor: HS61AF91, you and I have had a long discussion on LENR. Last I was aware it was still a DARPA project. DARPA projects are as far as I know not well advanced. I know something about LENR. Where are we with moving it out of DARPA? On our last conversation I was dead set against it, but I’d like to know more about it. ME: Highly recommend ‘E-Cat World’ where one dedicated enthusiast continually brings together developing technological, experimental, and judicial developments
    relating to LENR. Not only in our land (E-cat, Quark X, Blilliant Light Power, etc.), but in India (ECCO project), in Japan (Nissan), in China (Ni-H System), and Russia (Parkhomov). Even Bill Gates andhis 1 billion dollar Breakthrough Energy Ventures (BEV) investment getting into the act. Why we are stuck with a innovative government that does not do much innovating is beyond belief. Maybe it will just hit them in the face, when the rest of the world passes us by in new energy, ‘free’ energy (i.e. more out than put in) successes while we are putzing around with biological fermented waste products.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks for fighting the good fight – I am sure Suhas will be flattered to know of your words and he will read here.

      When unequivocal evidence is allowed to be accepted of safe LENR, only fools would ignore it. The folks here following ECW are at the forefront of establishing this evidence. We have all been through ups and downs on this journey – but there does now appear to be cracks in the dam of ignorance showing.

      We might reserve hubris however for when our little band of new fire warriors gets the data we need to overcome the disinformation set against us.

    • Adam Lepczak

      Government and people in power and in general run by psychopaths. They do not care about anything or anybody except their own short term interest. It is not inn the interest of people in power to liberate humanity and make basic needs cheap.

      • Khazar Agent

        I must absolutely oppose your suspicion that “… They do not care about anything or anybody except their own short term interest …”
        As every analyst may see, Donald care about interest of Khazarian people (note: in 18th Century there was invented new word for marking of Khazarian people). So your accusation is partially wrong.

    • sam

      At Brilliant light power presentation in Irving California Mills said the U.S
      Navy told them they would be
      interested when they had a functioning Sun Cell.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stars_and_Stripes_(newspaper)

      • HS61AF91

        tks, I’ll pass that on.

      • Bob Greenyer

        As will everyone else.

      • doug marker

        And that is not unreasonable an approach. What we do know of LENR & even Mills theories, is that few people in the world can claim to be expert on all or even most aspects of the technology processes and more so the theories. It is near impossible for businesses (let alone us) to choose confidently based on proof of theories because they just aren’t in place.

        So for these revolutionary new energy advances we speak of, businesses and interested organisations can only really get involved based on observation and testing the devices and deciding they can manufacture and sell them.

        And, in the case of new energy, there are massive interests (both financial and political) that are directly opposed to any sudden shift away from oil as an instrument of foreign policy that they are not part of.

        Then there are the investors who have a vested interest in locking up any and all IP they can get their hands on. This happened in the IT / Computer industry – particular companies actively went to war in the 1990s & into the 2000s, seeking to secure all patents & IP they could and began a round of lawsuits and also sabotage. Back around 2002, Sun Microsystems was awarded a $3 billion US dept of justice settlement against Microsoft who had deliberately set out to corrupt the Java browser Sun had licensed to Microsoft.
        http://www.techlawjournal.com/courts/sunwvmsft/Default.htm

        Also in the 2000s IBM was sued for $2+ Billion by a company (Caldera Inc but later renamed TheSCOGroup) claiming that the operating system called Linux was stolen from ‘their’ Unix O/S and IBM was responsible. That case was thrown out when it was proved the renamed TheSCOGroup company didn’t own Unix. Unix was shown to be really owned by a company called Novell who had bought the real SCO and sold parts (but not Unix) to Caldera Inc). These cases were fought for Billions of dollars. Energy wars are likely to be fought for Trillions of $s.
        https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/linux-kernel-lawsuit-sco-v-ibm-is-alive-13-years-and-counting/

        Back to new energy. There is no real point in wheeling along journalists to early demos as no one who matters will listen. Only when people can see something working will we make any progress, but then the energy wars will begin. Do not imagine for an instant that there will or could be a happy glorious transition to a world of near free energy, without blood and guts on the floor.

        Doug Marker
        Sydney Australia

        • HS61AF91

          very true what happens when a new phenomenon splashes upon the world. Couple of things: (1)the devices produce ‘free’ energy; (2) the implementation could parallel what happened in India with Gandhi – peaceful resistance overcame the great colonial power.

    • sam

      Thanks for mentioning my name in
      Stars and Stripes today that just made my day.
      I added a link to BLP California
      presentation if they ok it.
      Also a link to Ecat World if they OK it.

      https://www.stripes.com/news/us/trump-tosses-obama-s-clean-energy-plan-embraces-coal-1.460984#.WORBMTys_YU

      Doug Marker a smart and wise
      fellow added another reply.

  • John Littlemist

    Just a thought, but are you going to allow any journalists or documentarists be present during the validation?

    • Bob Greenyer

      There is a dutch journalist that is connected and living in Mumbai – this is a possibility. We need to look hard at the budget.

      • John Littlemist

        Don’t they usually come for free? What about Mats Lewan?

        • Bob Greenyer

          We would not bill Mats – it is not a conference.

      • sam
  • Bob Greenyer

    Perhaps we could use a standard off the shelf water energy flow meter such as this one

    goo.gl/Qx0akw

    (Suggested by Eros)

    goo.gl/Xac1E7

    goo.gl/Hk02Kx

    Our flow rate estimate is about 0.215m^3 / hour

    Minimum certified flow rate 0.006m^3 / hour ( 2.8% of our expected flow rate )

    Maximum short term flow rate 1.2m^3 / hour ( 465% of our expected flow rate )

    In this recording, the HVAC engineer describes ones that require no fitting and just clamp on to the inlet and outlet pipes to measure temperature and flow rate. Ultrasonics are used to determine flow rate in many cases which may present a problem depending on frequency – though may have a damped coupling to resolve issues if present.

    Here is a discussion on solutions with an HVAC engineer.

    https://goo.gl/FOjq1a

    • artefact

      I wonder if the ultrasonics from the reactor could distract the flow meter? Or perhaps vice versa?

      • John Littlemist

        Good point. There are flow meters that base their functionality on ultrasonics, like these:
        https://kamstrup.stockshed.com/water-meters/multical-21

      • Bob Greenyer

        Yes – we have been discussing that.

        We are going to get an ultrasonic microphone for all the tests and will look at if that will be a problem.

      • roseland67

        Bob,

        Positive displacing pumps in lieu of centrifugal would assist here.
        When rotating at pole speeds at rated frequency their output (gpm, lpm, etc)
        Is relatively fixed per their pump curves. It’s not perfect but could be a good check/balance when compared to a flow meter output, they should be close.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Perhaps we could use a standard off the shelf water energy flow meter such as this one

    goo.gl/Qx0akw

    (Suggested by Eros)

    goo.gl/Xac1E7

    goo.gl/Hk02Kx

    Our flow rate estimate is about 0.215m^3 / hour

    Minimum certified flow rate 0.006m^3 / hour ( 2.8% of our expected flow rate )

    Maximum short term flow rate 1.2m^3 / hour ( 465% of our expected flow rate )

    In this recording, the HVAC engineer describes ones that require no fitting and just clamp on to the inlet and outlet pipes to measure temperature and flow rate. Ultrasonics are used to determine flow rate in many cases which may present a problem depending on frequency – though may have a damped coupling to resolve issues if present.

    Here is a discussion on solutions with an HVAC engineer.

    https://goo.gl/FOjq1a

    • artefact

      I wonder if the ultrasonics from the reactor could distract the flow meter? Or perhaps vice versa?

      • John Littlemist

        Good point. There are flow meters that base their functionality on ultrasonics, like these:
        https://kamstrup.stockshed.com/water-meters/multical-21

      • Bob Greenyer

        Yes – we have been discussing that.

        We are going to get an ultrasonic microphone for all the tests and will look at if that will be a problem.

      • roseland67

        Bob,

        Positive displacing pumps in lieu of centrifugal would assist here.
        When rotating at pole speeds at rated frequency their output (gpm, lpm, etc)
        Is relatively fixed per their pump curves. It’s not perfect but could be a good check/balance when compared to a flow meter output, they should be close.

  • Future

    BobG, it’s better to invite some industrial owners to this presentation. They will use the technologies right away if it’s profitable. For example, textile owners.

    • Bob Greenyer

      We need to see if it does something first

    • roseland67

      Future,

      I think you maybe making an awful big assumption here no?

      • Future

        roseland67,

        Nothing to loose here by inviting industrial owners. If it works with excess cop, yes it will adapted, else they might fund open community for further research. Either way, gathering community around this technology is the key.

        • roseland67

          I guess, in Roseland67 world,
          It works many many, with the same results, before I show anyone.

          • Future

            Showing results after many many iterations applies only for companies who runs in stealth mode and not for open community and research. In open world everything (including success and failures) discussed in transparent manner by everyone (you could be a individual, academic people or industrial owners).

          • roseland67

            Disagree,

            My company does not run in stealth mode, we want to “know”, not be told

          • Future

            Roseland67, your company is also in stealth mode by not telling others about your activity. That’s completely fine, that’s how companies are running. Also, as an entrepreneur you are also in this community and you are aware of what’s going on in this space. My point is, as an entrepreneur you are in this space why not invite other industrial owners as this presentation for open community. It enhances community divergence and also open research get benefits from multitude thoughts and funds.

          • roseland67

            Future,

            I guess, if I am an executive at a global energy company that may have an interest in LENR, and I go to an LENR demonstration and see that it does not work, I would consider it a waste of time and effort and be extremely “sceptical”, of going to another one.
            Bob is correct, he has to see if works FIRST, before he invites anyone to witness.

          • Future

            Roseland67, it’s not about one person. If one business person thinks nothing to see here then it’s up to him. But if you have group of people there then it might trigger interest among few of them even if it’s unsuccessful. The initial MFMP history clearly stats this, even though lot of academic people against this few of them continued their R&D. But, if MFMP decided to continue many many iterations until to find clear way and theory, then it might never be explored to outside world. It always good to explore your activity with outside world if you have something or if you see some anomaly. Then open community will it take it from their and we can see it’s evolution.

  • LilyLover

    Instead of directly dumping the 60˚C water out with perfect flow measurements, I propose a secondary check. Use 3 drums. Dump the 60˚C water into drum1; once that is full, move the discharge to drum2; stir drum1 and measure the temperature; when drum 2 is full, move the discharge to drum3; empty the drum1 just as you currently plan to drain; stir and measure the temperature of the drum2; and so on…

    You do not need three drums, only two drums could suffice. Redundancy. Video recording of the entire process will obviate counting the number of drums. You should still do that. Keep a dedicated person for drum-dumping count. Besides mechanical counter, use a paper and pen – tally5 |||| method. For each temperature measurement, measure ice-water temperature (approximate check-zero), measure drum temperature, measure faucet-water temperature (thermometer resiliency check).

    This volumetric intermediate step (drummy-step/dummy-step) is almost no-cost, no-time-delay verification check.

    • Bob Greenyer
      • lrao

        The idea of using tanks as a simple way to double check the average flow is very good.

        Relatively low tech and relies on visual inspection. For example, you can put marks inside the tanks and use a video camera to monitor how they fill up. This gives a crude but simple way to monitor aproximate flow rates.

        You can connect to the output of the unit, 2 or more tanks using pipes and valves, and as any of the tanks fills up, you open the valve to the next tank, and clise the valve to the tank that just filled up. You can even stir the water, measure the temp, and dump the water on the prior filled tank.. then rinse and repeat. I would not put anything inside the tank or the pipes. The idea is to make this as low tech as possible, as it is just to give a rough but very reliable estimate, based upon visuals.

        This is a very simple way to get crude but approximate and hard to dispute numbers that rely simply on cameras and a clock and analog thermometers.

        You can use a similar mechanism on the input to measure the approximate flow and temp.

        The thing is that flow meters are enclosed units and who knows what is inside or if they are working as they should. The same goes for temp meters that are connected to electronics and to computers. It is too easy to make mistakes in the code (on purpose or not) and get wrong numbers.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Measuring the temperature of the water in the drums might not be accurate enough. You might have to agitate (stir) the water. Also, any thermal loss in the drum will reduce the water temperature unless they are insulated.

      You might be able to immerse the entire apparatus in a larger tank and measure the rate of temperature rise, again stirring the fluid as you measure the temperature.

      I did use a similar approach to characterize the thermal output of a single evacuated-tube solar thermal collector. We placed a fixed amount of water (as ice) in a calorimeter connected to the thermal output junction and measured the temperature rise over time. It was constant at first, then rose until the boiling point, and was constant again while the water boiled. We calibrated it with a 100 Watt heater, comparing the temperature rise with the heater to that of the solar collector.

  • LilyLover

    If we are talking about raising temperature from 30- to 90+, claiming COP 8, my preliminary calculations show that I’ll be happy at 126.72 l/hr or say 125 Liters/Hour or 10.56 Liters/5Minutes or 2.8 or say about 3 gallons per five minutes of flow. (Just to put size and time frame for imagination)

    My estimate is 0.128 m3/hr; with 0.215 m3/hr, you are being 70% more conservative.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    In 2007 I led a group of students in testing solar thermal arrays. Calorimetry was very important. To measure the solar array output, we used a pressure/flow controlled pump, a vane-type flow meter, and mixer/RTD temperature sensors on the input and output side of the arrays. In order to test the array, we had to control the input water temperature at a precise level over the ambient air temperature. We used three 7500 Watt heaters connected to 208V three-phase power inputs and then to a 3-phase rectifier bridge. The DC output of the rectifier bridge was then pulse-width modulated with an IGBT transistor switch to control the temperature. At a flow rate of about 3 Gallons per minute, we could raise water temperature instantly (almost) about 75 Degrees F with about 18KW of electrical power in. Here is a link to a technical presentation with pictures of some of the apparatus:

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0I7pqe_KM9tZElyNzVRZ01XRXM

    I would suggest that you use a constant rate (volumetric) pump to deliver water to the reactors, carefully measuring the input and output water temperature. Have the same water flow into an “instant-water-heater” with a measured amount of power in. Then measure the output water temperature. The Reactor thermal output is simply the ratio of the Delta-T from the reactor divided by the Delta-T from the electrical heater times the electrical heater power. Divide that number by the total electrical input power to drive the reaction and you get COP.

    The heaters we purchased were simple consumer items made for small water flow heaters, such as the sink in a cabin. To handle the 2.8 GPM, we plumbed three heaters in parallel. As I recall, they were less than $100 each.

    Static mixers are very important to accurately measure the water temperature and should be applied just upstream of the temperature sensors. You can purchase them, or make them yourself. A series of disks zig-zagging in a tube will suffice. For the most accurate temperature sensors, we used 100 Ohm European curve platinum wire RTDs. Our flow meter was a $1000 device with good accuracy — but you do not really need to measure the flow except for an approximate measure. Your proposed technique of diverting water to a bucket and weighing it is probably good enough. We used a 5 gallon pail and a stop watch to cross-check the flow before and after the testing run.

    • Bob Greenyer

      This is all good ideas, however the space and time is constrained.

      Out current approach is to have temperature (digital and analogue) on input and output and check valves either end with flow going from mains through reactor into buckets on scales. Alternate buckets as they fill.

      In addition, a clamp on thermal kWh meter which ultrasonically monitors flow and has a temp clamp on for input as well. This can be cross-referenced to the weighed water and temperatures collected digitally and the monitored analogue thermometers.

      • Thomas Kaminski

        It will likely work, but my experience says that using the mains pressure with a valve to regulate flow is problematic. We switched to a float-controlled tank with a static head followed by a valve to control flow. The mains pressure was all over the place. The float valve and tank were a distance above the device to set the static head pressure and thus, even out the flow through the flow-control valve.. Also, do use static mixers in the flow stream to make sure you are measuring an accurate temperature. See Wikipedia — simple to design from a series of right and left twisted metal in a tube:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_mixer

        • Bob Greenyer

          Suhas said he also used a tank in his tests and so that is possibly an option.

    • roseland67

      Thomas is a sharp guy,

      (Absolutely love the 5 gallon bucket and stopwatch, I used it often).

      I would add the following:
      Get a specific heat (cp), measurement of the water, (it should be 1btu/lb F),
      don’t assume, too easy to poke holes in measurements when assumptions are made.
      Also, I would suggest a single reactor, not multiple reactors. Prove 1 works and then scale it linearly.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Schedule for next technical call. Most important outstanding questions please.

    NOTE: DATE WILL BE 6th (Thursday)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/04d9b6e76850b498b667c1aa4a06726febd786e62fba8211ecf44ff9364cb3f8.png

    • psi2u2

      Godspeed, Bob.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thanks

  • Bob Greenyer

    Schedule for next technical call. Most important outstanding questions please.

    NOTE: DATE WILL BE 6th (Thursday)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/04d9b6e76850b498b667c1aa4a06726febd786e62fba8211ecf44ff9364cb3f8.png

    • psi2u2

      Godspeed, Bob.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thanks

  • radvar

    To Bob G: I added instructions on how to set up a shared drawing environment, down below with the original posts on that topic.

  • Andy Kumar

    Bob, what happened to your Danish (?) project. Sorry, have not been following this.

    • Bob Greenyer

      The electrical department head was on Holiday so could not get permission to turn on the Model-T Alan Smith had donated whilst I was there.
      They lost the lab space due to repairs
      There was strong resistance by other heads of department and the deans to having LENR research conducted at the university
      Reason was – it is impossible so we can’t have that research being conducted here for fear of reputation damage
      They will be open to hosting working experiments when it is shown to be possible (just like every other man and their dog)

  • Andy Kumar

    Bob, what happened to your Danish (?) project. Sorry, have not been following this.

    • Bob Greenyer

      The electrical department head was on Holiday so could not get permission to turn on the Model-T Alan Smith had donated whilst I was there (weeks).
      They lost the lab space due to repairs
      There was strong resistance by other heads of department and the deans to having LENR research conducted at the university
      Reason was – “it is impossible so we can’t have that research being conducted here” for fear of reputation damage
      They will be open to hosting working experiments when it is shown to be possible (just like every other man and their dog)

      There was some very good people there that did their best to make it happen. In the end – the usual nonsense and risk aversion prevailed. Celani was prepared to come and run a test live, Vysotskii prepared to first talk and then later maybe run test. By preventing any test from occurring, those that denied the possibility of LENR could ensure they were right in their opinion. SAD

      Universities have yet to prove in my experience to be a good place to conduct this research. I will report on IIT Mumbai when critical things for the Indian trip are sorted (they are being braver than most). However, I will be at Masaryk Univesity with an expert in materials analysis doing EDX on Suhas foil tomorrow and we will discuss future cooperation. The Czechs are little braver when it comes to cutting edge research and that is why they have consistently out punched their weight in science and engineering for over 100 years (just 10.2 million people – about the size of an Indian City).

  • Bob Greenyer
  • Bob Greenyer
  • Bob Greenyer

    ECCO – Why does the ultrasonically processed Nickel foil contain grains of Au, Pd and Ag?

    The ultrasonically plasma treated foil deposited in a Nickel Sulphate solution on Steel so the mix it was made from was

    Ni
    S
    H
    2H
    O

    on Steel https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d1daa43f17b2fb447052f8fa6c4b7a770f5a806bdd01b6dbc16d5c811f99ecd9.gif https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/254d29b8bcb2b3e22127e488c6c16e2dfef2b35baebde2f1072797c847f21e7f.jpg

    • LION

      Hi Bob, because this was sonically stimulated the ratio of the metals may continue to change even over short time scales until the peturbed Atoms settle, which can take a long time. The Russians are well aware of this, though they disbelieved it at first believing their instruments to be faulty, after many recalibrations they learned otherwise.

    • Future

      Roseland67, your company is also in stealth mode by not telling others about your activity. That’s completely fine, that’s how companies are running. Also, as an entrepreneur you are also in this community and you are aware of what’s going on in this space. My point is, as an entrepreneur you are in this space why not invite other industrial owners as this presentation for open community. It enhances community divergence and also open research get benefits from multitude thoughts and funds.

  • Bob Greenyer

    ECCO – Why does the ultrasonically processed Nickel foil contain grains of Au, Pd and Ag?

    The ultrasonically plasma treated foil deposited in a Nickel Sulphate solution on Steel so the mix it was made from was

    Ni
    S
    H
    2H
    O

    on Steel https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d1daa43f17b2fb447052f8fa6c4b7a770f5a806bdd01b6dbc16d5c811f99ecd9.gif https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/254d29b8bcb2b3e22127e488c6c16e2dfef2b35baebde2f1072797c847f21e7f.jpg

    • LION

      Hi Bob, because this was sonically stimulated the ratio of the metals may continue to change even over short time scales until the peturbed Atoms settle, which can take a long time. The Russians are well aware of this, though they disbelieved it at first believing their instruments to be faulty, after many recalibrations they learned otherwise.

    • fukiko bryant

      Rhetorical question? EVOs?

      My contribution:
      Ultrasonic transmutation of transition metals in dusty plasmas as per

      WO 2016026720 A1 patent.
      How?? Who knows?
      Suhas Ralkar must be surprised

      • Bob Greenyer

        Suhas was surprised, the analyst was very surprised… she said “you guys are modern day alchemists”

        I was only not so surprised because I has started to understand the work of Kenneth Shoulders and had seen the Adamenko work / Patent.

        I have read the WO 2016026720 A1 patent before – however, I do not think it adds much more than the Egely patent. In the case of the Egely patent ultrasonics is achieved as part of resonance in the acoustic resonator – so I am not sure that directly adding the ultrasonics is particularly novel rather than obvious.

        Egely patent has priority May 11, 2011
        http://www.google.com/patents/EP2707880A4?cl=en

        Since Egely patent maintenance patent has now lapsed – the concepts are now open source.

        Both Egely and Suhas embodiments appear far more efficient than this patent.

        Note that in this patent, embodiments also use microwaves – I had forgotten about this, but this adds another ‘working’ transmutator working with MW to the list.

        Other than Tesla’s carbon button, One must recognise the work of the Russian Bolotov (1956) who saw massive transmutation to stable elements with discharge in dirty water (that forms dusty plasma).

  • artefact

    ECCO foil and part processed fuel SEM & EDX

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovsi0Tr6pBs

  • artefact

    ECCO foil and part processed fuel SEM & EDX

    “Masaryk University in Brno, Czech Republic did SEM and EDX on ECCO part processed fuel and foil and discovered an apparently wide ranging selection of transmutations.

    The most interesting were particles on the Nickel foil which had high weight percentages of Gold and Silver and measurable Palladium.

    The analysis files are here:

    https://goo.gl/y1jgDl
    https://goo.gl/jedvjB

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovsi0Tr6pBs

  • Bob Greenyer

    Suhas was surprised, the analyst was very surprised… she said “you guys are modern day alchemists”

    I was only not so surprised because I has started to understand the work of Kenneth Shoulders and had seen the Adamenko work / Patent.

    I have read the WO 2016026720 A1 patent before – however, I do not think it adds much more than the Egely patent. In the case of the Egely patent ultrasonics is achieved as part of resonance in the acoustic resonator – so I am not sure that directly adding the ultrasonics is particularly novel rather than obvious.

    Since Egely patent maintenance patent has now lapsed – the concepts are now open source.

    Both Egely and Suhas embodiments appear far more efficient than this patent.

    Note that in this patent, embodiments also use microwaves – I had forgotten about this, but this adds another ‘working’ transmutator working with MW to the list.

  • AstralProjectee

    I realize this is off topic but is brilliant light power cold fusion or LENR?

    • Epi

      No, according to Dr. Mills. He thinks that the excess heat in LENR is from a hydrino reaction and I think he does not believe that transmutation is achieved in LENR experiments (at least not on a big scale).

      Personally I think LENR and hydrino reactions are somehow related but how has to be determined.

      • Bob Greenyer

        1. Muons are heavy electrons.
        2. Muons cause shrinking of Deuterium such that it can fuse at room temperature (muon catalysed fusion)
        3. Shoulders says that charge clusters can be of any energy from 511keV (1 electron mass) up to 100billions.
        4. Evidence suggests that charge clusters can replace electrons
        5. This might result in a massive range of variously ‘shrunken’ hydrogen species (my hypothesis)

        This then blends ‘small’ hydrogen with Kenneth shoulders

        I says as much in this

        https://steemit.com/science/@homosymbion/ecco-could-it-work-like-this

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Bob, muons are not electrons…

          • HAL9000

            What property distinguishes a muon from a heavy electron, other than a label?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            For example, its rest mass. Certainly, if you would accelerate an electron up to 0.99999c or so, it would become as ‘heavy’ as a resting muon. But its rest mass would still be 511keV, in comparison to the 105.7 MeV of the muon.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That’s what I thought Andreas, KS, who researched Charge Clusters for 33 years changed my understanding.

            The implication from KS is all charge clusters do not get their extra ‘mass’ through relativistic means – they become – heavy electrons (like Clean Planet/Mizuno target) – in the sense that they have same charge and are influenced/influence the same forces as an electron – and apparently, can take the place of an electron.

          • Bob Greenyer

            @27m55s – What are charge clusters?

            KS “See and EVO is a cluster it’s a way of thinking of it, of
            electrons, and you know, in physics as well, you can get; cooper pairs,
            Muons (207 × electron), Tauons (3477.48 × electron)… they are all just
            clusters of electrons of a larger size – but heck, they rarely go above
            100s and I see them into the billions worth – no trouble at all. So I am working with a WAY upscale class of guys.

            Kenneth R. Shoulders 2010

            What do I know?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Well, that’s a very exotic theory. But let’s say it was true, how would you explain that muons and tauons have still a single charge? And why don’t they decay into a bunch of electrons?

          • Bob Greenyer

            It’s the theory that got funded the longest.

            Mills might say “Electrons are not what people think they are”

            KS may have had his own opinion, but I think of it like a flywheel,

          • Bob Greenyer

            Mills might say “electrons are not what people think they are”

            I am not sure what KS would say other than the quote above from him.

            I think of electrons now as a kind of flywheel – regardless of how fast you spin a fly wheel, it is still a flywheel, but the stored energy is larger. Of course, I may be wrong, most likely am. There are only a few stable states observable outside of a nucleus.

            Muons always decay into at least an electron and some other stuff.

            All matter is energy. What is intriguing me right now is how Nickel becomes palladium and how Copper > Silver > Gold, which is the implications of Suhas’ foil – essentially a nickel foil bombarded with electrons and likely charge clusters.

          • Stephen

            Well I guess we all have our personal ideas and concepts. I tend to think of Electons as a fundamental quanta of energy spinning in a local frame of reference with a spin axis and an orthogonal 2D plane. And muons and tau particles being similar fundamental quanta of energy spining in one of the other two orthogonal axis in the same LFR that require higher energies relative to an external frame of reference when manifested there. incidentally 3 sets of orthogonal 2D planes would maybe lead to 3D spatial consequences.. May be quarks are even similar but with off set rotation axis so requiring pairs of triplets to be stable. And transitions or decays or energy and states carried by Bosons are simply rotations or translations in the local frame of reference. Perhaps what we perceive as particles is how the local space time frame of reference is manifested twisted or translated relative to an external space time frame…if so perhaps the spinning quanta of energy is an EVO and all fundamental particles are EVO’s in some LFR. Perhaps the highly energetic EVO’s seen by Shoulder etc are highly energetic Spinning quanta or coherent group of quanta of energy that have not yet precipitated into normal fundamental particles that for some reason maintains it’s stability? I wonder if thats possible and if so how.

            Of course I suspect this is all nonsense to a theoretical physicist probably correctly for all sorts of reasons but it’s good to think about ideas.

            Neutrinos from muon decay etc are detected though I think and even oscillate between flavours as has been used to explain the solar neutrino problem.

          • Bob Greenyer

            On Hutchinson effect

            #1986
            Canadian Scientific and Technical Intelligence Agency investigates Hutchison Effect. Further testing, leading to greater mastery of effect. North American and European laboratories indicate same results of atomic changes in samples.

            
700 demonstrations in 16 years.

            #1989
            Invited by European scientists to Austria and Germany. During 2-year period, *new discoveries in subatomic physics and in elimination of radioactivity*
            ——————————————————————————————
            Did we ever hear of these ‘new discoveries in subatomic physics’

    • Josh G

      They are both different ways of tapping the charge field.

  • Bob Greenyer

    ECCO – New fire individual reactor core cross-section and operation

    https://goo.gl/iDKAlu

    • Future

      BobG, nickel foil wrapped around ceramic tube inner surface or rolled as a ball into tungsten rod? If it’s rolled as ball then there is less surface to interact?

      • Bob Greenyer

        The Nickel is only meant as vacuum/hydrogen porous electrodes for the non-spark discharge and to contain the fuel in the reaction zone.

        Of course, it is Nickel and so it could play a role also. Suhas has said that the place that gets fuel agglomerations is the electrodes (the alumina reactor walls are cleaned by ultrasonics)

        • Future

          Interesting, Any specific reason why this nickel foil coated one side?

          • Bob Greenyer

            The way it is made – steemit blog post up and coming

  • Bob Greenyer

    1. Muons are heavy electrons.
    2. Muons cause shrinking of Deuterium such that it can fuse at room temperature (muon catalysed fusion)
    3. Shoulders says that charge clusters can be of any energy from 511keV (1 electron mass) up to 100billions.
    4. Evidence suggests that charge clusters can replace electrons
    5. This might result in a massive range of variously ‘shrunken’ hydrogen species (my hypothesis)

    This then blends ‘small’ hydrogen with Kenneth shoulders

    I says as much in this

    https://steemit.com/science/@homosymbion/ecco-could-it-work-like-this

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Bob, muons are not electrons…

      • Bob Greenyer

        @27m55s – What are charge clusters?

        KS “See and EVO is a cluster it’s a way of thinking of it, of
        electrons, and you know, in physics as well, you can get; cooper pairs,
        Muons (207 × electron), Tauons (3477.48 × electron)… they are all just
        clusters of electrons of a larger size – but heck, they rarely go above
        100s and I see them into the billions worth – no trouble at all. So I am working with a WAY upscale class of guys.

        Kenneth R. Shoulders 2010

        What do I know?

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Well, that’s a very exotic theory. But let’s say it was true, how would you explain that muons and tauons have still a single charge? And why don’t they decay into a bunch of electrons?

          • Bob Greenyer

            It’s the theory that got funded the longest.

            Mills might say “Electrons are not what people think they are”

            KS may have had his own opinion, but I think of it like a flywheel,

          • Bob Greenyer

            Mills might say “electrons are not what people think they are”

            I am not sure what KS would say other than the quote above from him.

            I think of electrons now as a kind of flywheel – regardless of how fast you spin a fly wheel, it is still a flywheel, but the stored energy is larger. Of course, I may be wrong, most likely am. There are only a few stable states observable outside of a nucleus.

          • Stephen

            Well I guess we all have our personal ideas and concepts. I tend to think of Electons as a fundamental quanta of energy spinning in a local frame of reference with a spin axis and an ortoganal 2D plane. And muons and tau particles being similar fundamental quanta of energy spining in one of the other two orthogonal axis in the same LFR that require higher energies relative to an external frame of reference. Creating incidentally 3 sets of orthogonal 2D planes and 3D consequences.. May be quarks are even similar but with off set rotation axis so requiring pairs of triplets to be stable. And transitions or decays or energy and states carried by Bosons are simply rotations or translations in the local frame of reference what we perceive as particles is how the local space time frame of reference is manifested twisted or translated relative to an external space time frame…if so perhaps the spinning quanta of energy is an EVO and all fundamental particles are EVO’s in some LFR.

            Of course I suspect this is all nonsense to a theoretical physicist probably correctly for all sorts of reasons but it’s good to think about ideas.

            Neutrinos from muon decay etc are detected though I think and even oscillate between flavours as has been used to explain the solar neutrino problem.

          • Bob Greenyer

            On Hutchinson effect

            #1986
            Canadian Scientific and Technical Intelligence Agency investigates Hutchison Effect. Further testing, leading to greater mastery of effect. North American and European laboratories indicate same results of atomic changes in samples.

            
700 demonstrations in 16 years.

            #1989
            Invited by European scientists to Austria and Germany. During 2-year period, *new discoveries in subatomic physics and in elimination of radioactivity*
            ——————————————————————————————
            Did we ever hear of these ‘new discoveries in subatomic physics’

    • Mike Phalen

      Test

  • Bob Greenyer

    SEM / EDX grouped into pdf for easy cross-referencing.

    https://goo.gl/7QBhqM

  • Bob Greenyer

    SEM / EDX grouped into pdf for easy cross-referencing.

    https://goo.gl/7QBhqM

  • Future

    Roseland67, it’s not about one person. If one business person thinks nothing to see here then it’s up to him. But if you have group of people there then it might trigger interest among few of them even if it’s unsuccessful. The initial MFMP history clearly stats this, even though lot of academic people against this few of them continued their R&D. But, if MFMP decided to continue many many iterations until to find clear way and theory, then it might never be explored to outside world. It always good to explore your activity with outside world if you have something or if you see some anomaly. Then open community will it take it from their and we can see it’s evolution.

  • Bob Greenyer

    The Nickel is only meant as vacuum/hydrogen porous electrodes for the non-spark discharge and to contain the fuel in the reaction zone.

  • Bob Greenyer

    The way it is made – steemit blog post up and coming

  • Andreas Moraitis

    For example, its rest mass. Certainly, if you would accelerate an electron up to 0.99999c or so, it would become as ‘heavy’ as a resting muon. But its rest mass would still be 511keV, in comparison to the 105.7 MeV of the muon.

    • Bob Greenyer

      That’s what I thought Andreas, KS, who researched Charge Clusters for 33 years changed my understanding.

  • Anon2012_2014

    Frank,

    Here’s a fun headline for us to discuss — molecular H2 near geothermal vents source of energy for life on Saturn’s moon Enceladus detected by Cassini (and maybe on earth) … Hmmn: molecular H2, high pressure, high temperature. Could it be LENR down there?

    http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/13/15270854/nasa-enceladus-ocean-hydrothermal-vents-alien-life-conditions-cassini-saturn

    http://www.space.com/36455-saturn-moon-enceladus-energy-source-life.html

    Paywall (and anti LENR) Magazine: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/356/6334/132

    • HAL9000

      Not certain about LENR, but the ice-fishing will be spectacular!

      • Stephen

        Hehe well I guess you would know… or was that around Jupiter?

  • Stephen

    Hehe well I guess you would know… or was that around Jupiter?

  • Bob Greenyer

    ECCO – Making nickel foil for reactor discharge electrodes

    This article details the process to make the Nickel foil used in the ECCO reactor core that acts as an electrode and a breathable fuel barrier.

    https://steemit.com/science/@mfmp/ecco-making-nickel-foil-for-free-energy-reactor-discharge-electrodes

  • Bob Greenyer

    ECCO – Making nickel foil for reactor discharge electrodes

    This article details the process to make the Nickel foil used in the ECCO reactor core that acts as an electrode and a breathable fuel barrier.

    https://steemit.com/science/@mfmp/ecco-making-nickel-foil-for-free-energy-reactor-discharge-electrodes