What is the Evidence for the QuarkX?

I’d like to highlight a comment by LENR G, in which he looks at the evidence for Andrea Rossi’s QuarkX. He wrote this today:

Evidence for the QuarkX, of various weight, includes:
– Gullstrom’s experiment and public paper co-authored with Rossi (duped? co-conspirator?)
– Fabiani’s interview with Mats that included eye-witness observations (co-conspirator?)
– Leaked picture of Rossi orienting a team of engineers (?) on operation of the QX, with COP > 1700! (elaborate deception with paid actors?)
– New exhaust pipes on the JMP side, post 1 MW test (why if nothing’s getting really hot?)
– The ‘glow’ picture of the QX that Rossi released (ok, doesn’t show much but does hint that Sapphire plays a role)
– Rossi’s assertions (history shows we can only note these, as we cannot determine which are sharing and which are feints… but they have been quite detailed in terms of heat/light/electricity observations, pursuit of 5 sigma, etc.)

A smelly stew of deception and conspiracy? Is that what you really think or does your gut tell you that maybe, just maybe, something real is going on here?

I would like to welcome Gullstrom to the conspiracy super-team. I hope you are getting paid very well to throw your fledgling career into the toilet. /s


There was also a comment here recently from a poster here who calls themself ‘Swede’ who wrote:

“The QuarkX is real, sorry to say that you have to take my word for it. I have seen it live and as AR would say it is a master piece. It is something totaly different from the E-cat, both in scale and function.”

Andrea Rossi wrote this in response to a question about whether he was still working with Carl-Oscar Gullstrom and he wrote:

Andrea Rossi
April 17, 2017 at 8:23 AM
Yes. We are preparing an updated version, more detailed and with the addiction of the description of an experiment made with standard calorimetry, whose results will be compared to the results obtained by direct measurements made using the Wien and Boltzmann equations. Also the theoretical part will be reviewed. We are studying and experimenting.
Warm Regards,

Of course these are just snippets, and not everyone will be convinced there is anything significant going on. Personally, I am very convinced there is such as thing as the QuarkX, and that Rossi is not just making stuff up about it, but as usual in the E-Cat world, we are going to have to wait for more details.

  • Some days I feel like this is the best mystery in the history of everything but other days I just want to drive a tank through that ‘factory’ in Doral and grab a Quark X to see if it burns my hand.

    • pg

      None yet…

    • Brokeeper

      Well LENR G, I totally understand your frustration. However, on my way to the Florida Keys last September, I decided to stop by at the Doral location where the 1MW plant was tested. I over shot the address and turned on the nearest alley to turn around. It happened to be the back loading dock of the address and it was wide open exposing the nearest plant container.

      • Maybe I’ll sneak in and get one!

        The Rossini space is a marble supply store that’s been there a long time. Interesting coincidence though. Maybe Rossi saw the Rossini sign and that sold him on that space. Fate, or something.

        • Brokeeper

          Yeah, we’re beginning to know him way too much. 😉

          • LilyLover

            To the extent that ‘Basic Insticnt’ psychologists could use some lessons from us. 🙂

        • pelgrim108

          Another coincedence is that the Lugano test site location was managed
          by someone with the last name Rossi.

          • Is that right? Common name in those parts, I suppose.

            No relation, I presume.

          • pelgrim108

            I wrote this from memory. I will try to find it again.

          • pelgrim108

            So here it is:
            “Testing was performed in Barbengo (Lugano), Switzerland, in a laboratory
            placed at [the testers’] disposal by Officine Ghidoni SA”

            Direttore ( Delegato AQ) Piergiorgio Rossi
            I dont know the relation.

          • It’s riddled with Rossis!

          • pelgrim108

            There is Piergiorgio Rossi, a P. Rossi and a N. Rossi.
            N. Rossi has Andrea Rossi’s looks.

          • Omega Z

            Rossi — Smith

          • pelgrim108

            Correct. It ranks #8 as most common surname in Ticino the italian speaking canton surrounding Lugano.

      • sam

        Somebody finally got to the test site that comments on this blog.
        I wondered when that would happen.Anything else interesting to report?
        Is this the same location that
        A.R works on the Quark X.

        • Brokeeper

          Hi Sam, I did take a couple of pictures but will not post
          them without Rossi’s concurrence. I requested to do so but have not receive a reply, which I understand under the legal circumstances.
          There were signs posted on the container: “AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY”, “POSTED No Trespassing KEEP OUT”, “NO CELL PHONES” and “SMILE YOUR ON CAMERA”. I’ve been looking over my shoulder ever since. 🙂

          As for whether this is where the QuarkX is being worked on, I do not know. All I can say there was some activity going on last late September. Below is a picture of me standing at the front door. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b6712149d6287b91d10c12a70272949267e47d38a8754836fe9bb3993951749e.jpg

  • Dr. Mike

    The evidence for the QuarkX is that Rossi is continuing to work on LENR devices and the one that he is working on now happens to be called a QuarkX. Perhaps the question that should be asked is: does/will the QuarkX work as Rossi claims? In my opinion this question will only be answered when Rossi decides it’s time to demonstrate the device. However, if Rossi’s methods of calorimetry do not improve, we may not know if the QuarkX works as claimed even after the demonstration. Rossi really needs the demonstration to include a “dummy” QuarkX device that contains a 20W heater (perhaps a tungsten wire or filament) that proves his calorimetry can accurately measure exactly 20W of heat coming out of this control device when 20W is applied to the heater.

    Another question that needs asked about the QuarkX device is: How is a large heating system to be built from tiny 20W devices? Consider some of the ramifications of a tiny 20W device:
    1. A 1MW system would have 100,000 electrical connections, assuming that the devices do not require a thermocouple to control each of the separate 50,000 devices.
    2. If each QuarkX device requires its own control system, how economical could a 1MW system be if it needed 50,000 control units?
    3. With the devices being so small how is heat to be extracted from an array of these devices without the electrical connections to each device affecting the means of extracting the heat?
    4. If the devices only contain enough fuel for a 1 year operation, how can the 50,000 devices be swapped out economically at the end of each year’s operation?
    5. Will the QuarkX device be capable of operating under a load? What about a varying load?
    6. Can QuarkX devices be manufactured uniformly enough that a single power source can supply power to a number of parallel units without one unit “hogging ” the supplied current or will 50,000 power sources be required for a 1MW system?

    In my opinion it will be very difficult to build a system to produce a large amount of heat from 20W devices. It will be interesting to see if any of the above concerns on a QuarkX based system will be answered in Rossi’s demonstration.

    • LilyLover

      Most of your questions have been posed with different wording previously, and, were answered. Not answered with demonstration; but, nonetheless answered.

      The QuarkX demonstrations, I believe, are going to be more like industry-expo. “Come, buy our product. Our products will make your products better.”
      Rossi’s production partners must already be satisfied with what he has offered. Hence the “ability to return 11 M” with complete separation.
      Do not expect calorimetric-proof in QuarkX demonstration. It will simply be performance exhibition, much like a car show.

      • Dr. Mike

        Sorry but I have not yet seen Rossi’s system proposal for using his QuarkX. In my opinion if Rossi’s demonstration is more like a car show, he won’t be able to bring any new investors as his history with IH may scare away potential investors without a good scientific based demonstration.

        • LilyLover

          You don’t seem to want to accept that Rossi already has more funding than he could ever use. “After the first robotic line is operational”, the ever expanding sales will keep him affluent.

    • Anon2012_2014

      If it works as described it is revolutionary and we will find a way to scale it. I am waiting to see one in the wild.

    • Omega Z

      Building large systems with 20W devices “NOT” an issue. Most things in life start with assembling the small into very large systems…

      Any clue as to how many billions of memory bytes(switches) in your computer and the number of bits that have to be refreshed every few milliseconds. Thus, the number of 20W devices required even for a Terawatt power plant would not be an issue.

      Advantages of small. Near instant “ON” instant “self sustain” 1400`C. The 3KW Hot Cat required 4 plus hours to reach temp and to achive self sustain. Small provides a large scale increase of surface area allowing Quarks to be functional in Jet engines or turbines. Small allows localized energy production instead of large centralized Grid.

      • Dr. Mike

        I certainly agree that the QuarkX has some desirable properties, such as possibly having an instant “on” capability. However, I believe your reference to computer memory is a better example of why it will be hard to build QuarkX systems. Way back when, long before your time, computer memories were individual ferrite rings for each bit that had to be carefully wired to form the memory. It wasn’t until memories could be formed using integrated circuit manufacturing that it began to make sense for everyone to have a home computer. I would like to hear any thoughts you might have on how a large heating system can be made from QuarkXs. The engineering issues for building QuarkX heating systems are going to be at least as difficult as those for the SunCell. Are we going to have to wait years for a commercial system from Rossi because he is unable to build a system from the QuarkXs?

        • Dr. Mike, if these things are real they will be engineered to the moon and back before you can turn your head. The magnitude of the energy gain and the parameters that control it (seemingly) will lead to a wide range of applications and configurations.

          It may seem to Rossi that the way he introduces his first product to the world is all important, but big picture it is not. The phenomenon is what is important. Once the world’s scientists and engineers get a hold of it, the sky is not even a limit.

          • Dr. Mike

            I think it’s important that Rossi’s demonstration is good enough that most scientists and engineers agree that his device performs as claimed because it might be some time before any real product becomes available. I’m not sure Rossi really wants to interest competing scientists to begin working on LENR. However, it would be nice to see some university funding for LENR research.

          • Steve Swatman

            One might suspect that the paid scientists (those paid to disagree) will be by far the loudest and most publicized, the current power/energy corporations will see to that.

          • cashmemorz

            The powers that be have already put the brakes on LENR and the like. Let me copy and paste an earlier post of mine to show how they have achieved this. .

            Not disruptive any more. This is because at least one government has instituted a method
            to keep traditional energy methods being paid for with traditional prices and higher for
            at least 30 more years by having us consumers paying for it even if there is completely
            free energy tomorrow.

            I’m talking about the Ontario, Canada Liberal Party strategy that has ended in extremely
            high costs of electricity. This started by the government selling
            off large chunks of the, up till recently, government controlled electric power sector
            in Ontario. The private owners then used the reason of making the system more robust to
            handle future increases in power that is to be supplied by alternate power producers.
            To pay for the upgrade the private owners increased the power bills by 25%. This is on
            top of the huge subsidized premiums, 200% of normal power bills, paid to those
            alternate power producers, contracted for by an earlier governing party. This part
            also to be paid by the power customers. The customers complained, price ended in being
            cut in half, for the customers the other half to be paid by the government. That second
            half to be repaid by customers to the government over the next thirty years.

            The result of this is that, if free or low cost power is available to, say me, via a
            device from Leonardo Corp, that low cost energy device will, in effect, be a cost on
            top of what I will be forced to keep paying to the government for the next thirty
            years. Why would I pay for the low cost energy device on top of the grid priced energy.
            The cost of both will be even higher if only by a little bit. What reason would anyone
            have for adding to that cost for the next thirty years? For altruistic or good feel
            reasons? No. I will have to wait till the government has decide that I have finished
            helping pay off the mortgage on the lowered price of traditionally priced power.

            So my answer is: it will make no difference to me if the e-cat is real or not.
            I will be paying for traditionally produced power with traditional prices for the next
            thirty years in any case.

            Edit:I am hoping that a future government, maybe a green party, will backtrack on paying
            the 30 year mortgage. Or some other way to make it feasible to use LENR devices.

        • Omega Z

          The dimensions given by Rossi is similar to a ceramic fuse. I envision something similar so changing out wont be that complex. Likely many Quarks affixed to individual panels.

          Computer memory was to demonstrate that number of controllers is not an issue and they would not need replaced with every fuel recharge. They will be part of the main system.

          Another thing to consider. At small footprint, A 10KW unit that meets peek demand, but most of the time only requires 1KW output or so, fuel recharge may only be required every 3 to 5 years as the 1 year thing is operational time. Note the computer could maintain a use balance so all quarks are used the same amount of time over that 3 to 5 years.



          Note: Breadboard with about a dozen switches. An on/off switch, switches 0-7 to set bits on/off, input, select, ?? … No storage so program lost when powered down…

          • Dr. Mike

            This seems to be a reasonable solution for nominal use being much less than peak demand, but the system would still need to be able to control all 500 devices when they were all on. There will also be 1000 electrical connections, maybe 500 controllers, maybe 500 TC’s, maybe 500 power sources? This would be a fairly complex system for a “home” unit, although 5KW might be sufficient for a home unit, which would cut the complexity in half.
            There is still a big issue of extracting heat from the small devices. Does the internal device temperature need to be maintained at >1200C while the external temperature might be at 100C or less? It will be interesting to see Rossi will use a low water flow for his calorimetry.

          • AdrianAshfield

            Without knowing more about the QuarkX it is probably too early to speculate.
            Making a reliable electrical connection at 1400C is not simple. particularly as there must be some fluid circulating over the Quarks to take the heat away.
            Possibly one end of the Quarks can be to a common conductor, but the problem remains of how to keep the electronics for the other end cool enough.
            Possibly Quarks can be grouped which will reduce the problem.

          • Omega Z

            The tungsten filament of incandescent bulbs can exceed 2000`C and an electrical connection isn’t an issue. We need to keep the temperature and output in perspective. The Quark tho very high temp, is only 20W output. As to cooling, Gas turbines use air cooling. It’s merely an engineering problem…

      • Andreas Moraitis

        One point that seems important in this context is the production process. Current worldwide power requirements amount to about 20 TW. That would correspond to 10^12 QuarkX units à 20 W. A robot that manufactures one Quark per second (a rough estimate) would need 31689 years to produce this quantity; still more than three Centuries to cover only 1% of the needs, replacement parts and increasing demand not included. So either AR would have to employ a whole army of robots, or he will have to seek for more efficient methods. Licensing would be an option, too. Anyhow, if the production of the Quarks eventually starts the ‘speed factor’ will deserve some attention.

        • Omega Z

          A correlation: Lithium batteries and current vehicle production would require, 300 Elon Musk Mega battery plants minimum and at least 100 new lithium mines to meet the demand. Many Decades in the making. Most people talking about EV’s replacing all ICE vehicles have trouble grasping this fact. And note, this is only current transportation. Nothing to do with grid storage and all other uses.
          Andreas, You’re correct. It will be a huge task. Thus the reason I have maintained that a transition will take decades. Again, that is current needs that most agree will double by 2060 and with new uses energy demand could triple.

          It will require several hundred Mega factories around the world to turn out Energy products. This was always the case. If you recall, Rossi talked about a factory turning out 1 million (10KW)units a year. That would supply less then 0.5 percent of the U.S. populace. Of which would require replacements annually.

          An upside is the temps the quarks achieve, I look for at least a 50% conversion of heat to electric. Less overall capacity will be required.

    • Vinney

      I like the idea of testing smaller devices, whereas the ‘hot fusion’ devices have now come down to about 5 storeys high.
      They should have started experiments with smaller devices decades ago.
      They would have been less expensive to build, and they would now be 100 iterations further advanced.
      But ALAS it is too late.

      • cashmemorz

        The people developing ITER have stated they need to overcome some of the problems the device has by making it ten times larger. They are going in the opposite direction from LENR as far as scale of geometrical size and costs are concerned.

  • LilyLover

    Does anyone here remember a movie – Alien falls to earth, 3 basic patents, starts “WE” World Enterprise, embeds the technology in gadgets ahead of competition, falls in love, shows removable ears, and cat-eyes to the woman, Space-X like operation in the end, man with golden helmet thrown out the high-rise-window. (Not, ‘The Man Who Fell To Earth’; perhaps the woman is Susan Sarandon or someone that looks similar)
    I think Rossi’s style is almost identical.

  • LindbergofSwed

    It is nice and interesting to see Rossi is studying and experimenting with Carl-Oscar Gullström. He obviously trust him with his deepest e-cat secrets.

  • Gerrit

    It does not matter whether facts, half-facts, indications, hearsay and Rossi-speak can be gathered and combined to pose as evidence. It really doesn’t matter.

    In five years we’ll find ourselves gathering evidence for the cat(n+1) and it will be just as meaningless.

    • If that is the case and BLP fizzles out and me356 never surfaces and all the MFMP replication attempts fail and Industrial Heat’s stable of efforts remain at COP 1.0 +/- epsilon and Parkhomov and the Chinese have nothing and…

      Well, that would suck.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Suhas foil has already showed transmutations before we even go to test the reactor.

        I plan to visit the University SEM / EDX again Thursday and look at other samples of the foil to see if we can confirm the finding.

  • I remember at one point the licensees was very angry and disappointed in regards to how aggressively their licensees was being bought back at x1.1

    I am however not sure if this was Cherokee / Industrial Heat buying back the licensees or if this was the Leonardo et al.

    • In the depositions there is clear information that Industrial Heat was driving that train, though the actual legal entity doing the buy-back is not clear to me.

      • Vinney

        At one stage relations with IH and Cherokee were good.
        AR did extensive testing for them of competitors LENR IP in his then role as Chief Scientist at IH.
        He must have acted in a consulting capacity to IH, advising on what IP had any value.
        One question I have, is who offered Piantelli US $8 million for his vital Nickel -Hydrogen IP.
        Was it IH (Cherokee) or Leonardo Corporation.

        • I can’t imagine it was Leonardo. They don’t have that kind of money to blow on something like that. Must have been IH as they were running around gobbling up all LENR IP as part of their stated strategy.

          But where did you get this? I missed this interesting detail. Is it in IH’s busies plan from discovery?

  • sam

    April 18, 2017 at 12:46 AM

    Andrea Rossi
    April 18, 2017 at 6:55 AM
    I am right now with “her” and she is marching well toward Sigma 5.
    Warm Regards,

    • Andreas Moraitis

      More important:

      JoNP, April 18, 2017

      Q: „Dous the measurements with proper calometry instrumentation confirm measurements done in the past?“

      AR: “The COP is lower, but in the same order of magnitude”

  • I’d appreciate a little more attention to detail from the dark side, supposed keepers of truth and wisdom.

    Other than Rossi says

    This is not accurate. There is also Fabiani says. There is also Gullstrom says, which would carry even more weight if it is confirmed he was physically present during QuarkX experiments. And there is also some tangential physical evidence of real activity.

    Rossi’s bad behavior has made you all blind to objective observations. Take the good with the bad and vice versa.

  • Gerard McEk

    I am quite pleased with AR’s answers below.
    First, he seems to be working with proper calometry instrumentation and it it good that the COP order of magnitude is confirmed.
    Second, his close co-operation with Güllstrom seems to be fruitful, both theoretical and in praxis.
    Third, he seems to have great trust is the theory he developed with Gullström, a theory which I do not understand. Maybe somebody is able to explain. I wasn’t aware it is some of the documents that will be judged in court. Could be a nasty one when has to be proven that NDA is not being violated.
    Fourth, the co-operation with Professor Cook is still tight, good!

    To me the QuarkX is real, I can’t wait to see it in operation.

    Gerard McEk
    April 18, 2017 at 2:09 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    I do hope you are recovering well. It really concerns me. Have you started to play tennis with your wife again during the easter days?
    Last time when I wished you well for your health, you did not answer. Maybe I used the wrong words, for which I apologize in that case.
    Just a few questions about your progress with the QuarkX.
    1. Dous the measurements with proper calometry instrumentation confirm measurements done in the past?
    2. Does your co-operation with Mr Gullström improve your progress with the QuarkX?
    3. Does your strong co-operation with Gullström mean that you also believe that neutrons can move from one atom to another under some circumstances?
    4. Are you still also co-operating with professor Cook to improve the theory?
    Thank you for answering our questions.
    Kind regards, Gerard

    Andrea Rossi
    April 18, 2017 at 6:52 AM
    Gerard McEk:
    Thank you for your care. I am well. You have nothing to apologize about.
    1- The COP is lower, but in the same order of magnitude
    2- Yes
    3- Our paper speaks for itself and I prefer not to add anything, pending a substantial review of it
    4- I have enormous esteem for Norman Cook, whose book has inspired my work since the day it has been published ( I bought a copy of the first edition several days after its publication, same thing I did after the publication of the second edition ). Of course our collaboration will continue and we have agreed upon the next starting point, when I will be able to give him data that now I cannot supply. As you have seen in the documents published of the litigation, IH has accused me to have violated the NDA with the publication of the paper Cook-Rossi: while this accusation is ridiculous, since they had approved the draft before the publication on Arxiv Physics, this fact explains to you how mined is the field I have to walk through.The theoretical work on course with Carl-Oscar Gullstroem is perfectly conciliable with the atomic structure theorized by Prof Norman Cook.
    Warm Regards,

    • Omega Z

      ->”IH has accused me to have violated the NDA with the publication of the paper Cook-Rossi:”

      NDA: This is precisely why only Rossi’s private R&D has continued and everything else on Rossi’s end has come to a screeching halt. Even tho Rossi has declared the Industrial Heat IP license null and void, it technically still stands until the court rules on it. Rossi’s IP license null and void declaration is just a required legal formality. This is the lawsuit in a nutshell.

      Even tho Rossi is asking for remuneration of $89M x3, a court ruling a dissolution of the contract and that both parties return whats been received (IH-return Rossi IP // Rossi return$11.5M), This would be a Big Win for Rossi. For IH/Darden, this would be a huge loss.

      As the guy from Woodford explained. This is all about IP control. Not if the Rossi effect is real… Without Rossi’s IP license, Darden/Industrial heat have nothing…

      • LilyLover

        .: IH will have nothing. MBA JD Con-Lawyering and Con-Contracting may work against mere mortals. The scientist, mafia-survivor, linguist, strongman backed by the likes of ABB++ has been beyond OilCos. IH tried to capitalize under seemingly harmless guise of a tiny venture capitalists, but the true colors eventually surfaced.
        When the good guys out-fox the foxes, IH is left with nothing. As you shall see after the verdict.

        • Gerard McEk

          Hope so…

        • sam

          I was wondering about the
          QuarkX and A.R. Lawyers.
          Would the Lawyers ask to see
          the QuarkX?
          Would A.R. offer to show it to them?
          Or would it not be appropriate
          or meaningless for them to see it.
          Thanks in advance for any replys.

          • sam

            Mario Alexander
            April 19, 2017 at 4:15 PM
            Dr Andrea Rossi:
            Do you think that it will be possible to use a battery as the power source of the QuarkX?
            God bless you,

            Andrea Rossi
            April 19, 2017 at 6:58 PM
            Mario Alexander:
            Warm Regards,

          • Vinney

            That means ‘OTG” is possible.
            Total independence from the grid.

          • Thomas Kaminski

            If the high COP is in fact true, even an inefficient Thermal Electric Generator (around 10% efficient converting heat to electricity) could be used to self-sustain the reaction. It will be possible also to provide inexpensive hot water for heating, bathing, cooking, and sterilizing dirty water sources, not only electricity — all with few moving parts to wear out.

          • FC

            Since the lawsuit is, in my opinion, a battle between AR (trying to break the License Agreement in order to regain full rights over his IP) and IH (trying to prevent him), any demonstration of a working QuarkX previous to the court ruling could be counterproductive for AR.
            Also, the complaints of both parties are related to possible breaches on contract. So, in my opinion, the lawsuit is more focused on contractual obligations than on science.

          • It may be possible that the court orders an additional test for a few weeks under defined and controlled conditions.
            So not Penon or any other “unknown specialists” with unknown or dubious relationships to Rossi, but a well-known and certified real independent measurement company (like TÜV) will do the measurements and develop the whole calorimeter system used for these measurements.

            This is just the procedure which should have been used anyway for such a sum of money at stake. But we know from the court documents that Rossi declined and urged Darden to use Rossi’s “expert” Penon.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            “But we know from the court documents that Rossi declined such a procedure and urged Darden to use his own “expert” Penon.”

            Which court documents, please?

            Rossi agreed about a 24h test by TÜV, SGS or BV, in addition to the first test by Penon. See 207-04, p. 3, last two paragraphs.

          • I don’t know the exact document number, but it was an exhibit of an email conversation between Darden and Rossi, in which Darden suggests to use TÜV or something else and Rossi declines this with the stale argument of revealing trade secrets and therefore he will use a trusted person (aka Penon) instead.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I think you mean the above mentioned document. The only thing that Rossi did not want is to have two different referees in the same test. Which makes sense to me.

          • Anyway, this changes nothing of the fact that the tests has many obvious obscurities.

            Additionally the behavior of Rossi, who removed pipes and wires at the end of the test while the lawsuite already started is more than dubious. By touching the installation he destroyed evidence. This now becomes to his drawback because he now looks really like a fraudster who’s “cleaning up”.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Well, at least by removing the „mezzanine heat exchanger“ he would have done Defendants a favour. Let’s see what the hearing today will produce with regard to these points.

          • Omega Z

            Rossi removed things from the JM side beyond the 1MW container where the test instruments were located. Thus it really doesn’t matter what was in the JM section.

          • So the heat exchanger doesn’t matter?

          • Omega Z

            Did I miss something? Was there anything in the contract about the heat exchanger being tested? As long as the steam was 100`C plus, it could just as well have dispersed into the atmosphere.

          • […]it could just as well have dispersed into the atmosphere.

            Sure. But this dispersion needs a surface of sufficient size which is in contact with the “atmosphere”. This could have been done by a heat exchanger and would solve the extreme heat problem which otherwise would have been present inside the building without a heat exchanger.

            The problem is: We (and seemingly also IH) first heard about the existence of such a heat exchanger in the second floor after this heat problem became a real explanation problem for Rossi within the lawsuit.
            This heat exchanger never was seen by any IH personal and was immediatly removed by Rossi after the end of the test.

            Why? This heat exchanger is fundamental to give an explanation about how it was possible to dissipate 1MW of heat without having around 70 – 90° C inside the doral building.

            You can read the specific calculations at LENR Forum at great length and for different conditions.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            That’s the same conversation. Please read the last two paragraphs.

          • Vinney

            Bullshit! The test criteria and measurements were sound.
            Don’t concern yourself with anything outside of the e-cat heater system,
            It performed far beyond expectations.
            If this court case is about entities going in with as little documented evidence as possible before presentation before the jury.
            IH has gone in with absolutely nothing.
            It’s made a laughing stock of ‘Jones Day.
            No- one will tremble in their presence ever again.
            IH has shown themselves to be the investor equivalent of ‘banksters’.
            They could do us all a favour and cut AR loose from their endeavours.
            The judge if she has any sense should order this case between AR (Leonardo Corp) and IH, with IH just an entity representing vexatious litigations, with no foundation, just
            Issues drawn from the air, from anywhere.
            She should order all costs x 3 to AR, and nullify the contract.
            It’s not even worth a jury, unless you want the jury to ponder ‘the meaning of life’.

          • GiveADogABone

            Let us see if this guidance is any help?
            262: Federal Rules of Evidence

            Relevant evidence is defined by Rule 401, Federal Rules of Evidence, as: “evidence having any tendency to make the existence of any fact that is of consequence to the determination of the action more probable or less probable than it would be without the evidence.”

            Rule 402, Federal Rules of Evidence, states, in pertinent part: “Evidence which is not relevant is not admissible.”

            Rule 403, Federal Rules of Evidence, states: “The court may exclude relevant evidence if its probative value is substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice, confusion of the issues, or misleading the jury, or by considerations of undue delay, waste of time, or needless presentation of cumulative evidence.”

            Where would the QuarkX be, when trying to determine the CoP of the 1MW
            I would pick Rule 402.

      • Gerard McEk

        I am not sure this court case can rule a dissolution, but I know nothing about these matters.
        I hope this whole thing comes to an end soon.

    • Axil Axil

      Rossi’s paper states that the Sigma meson and the pions
      are producing the LENR reaction.


      LENR breaks down protons and neutrons into mesons and pions.

      These particles are the mechanism whereby atoms can interact via the storge force. The signa meson is the mechanism where atoms interact with each other.



      “If I am not mistaken σσ refers to scalar mesons (total spin 0 and even parity JP=0+JP=0+) in general. As @annav pointed out one candidate is f0(500)f0(500). Especially in effective theories of the nuclear force mesons are quite important since there are many models describing the nuclear force with the exchange of those mesons: exchange models (see Pion-exchange model, Yukawa potential,…). How ever I think in a more modern view one uses chiral EFT with multiple pion exchanges to model the nuclear interaction. – M. J. Steil Sep 16 ’16 at 14:04”

      In Rossi’s latest theory paper:


      the σ(sigma) meson (Scalar or sigma meson) is the particle that carries the strong force interaction between particles.

      • Gerard McEk

        Thanks Axil. Is this mechanism in line with your understanding of the LENR process?

  • Omega Z

    Rossi’s technology is no more a “perpetual overunity device” then the internal combustion engine(It requires fuel”. Neither is it free energy. It will merely be cheaper.

  • LilyLover

    Statistics analyzed with inept intent are irrelevant.
    No, I’m not talking about your intent. I’m talking about strong-willed know-nothings working on free energy being lumped with the likes of Rossi.

  • psi2u2

    Sort of new here I see.

    • Gordon Spicer

      verrrrry old here actually

      • psi2u2

        I saw eight – now nine – comments. I agree with Lilylover above.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Nickel Sulphate + H2O + SS304 > Gold, Silver, Palladium and other stuff


    • Andreas Moraitis

      I would not leave out the possibility that these products are “neochemical” compounds (to use a term that has been coined by Alan G, I think). Maybe not of the Millsian type but perhaps something like Santilli’s “magnecules”. Mass spectrometers can be ‘fooled’ even by ordinary chemical stuff, so differential analytics would appear recommendable.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Just noticed that you used EDX. In this context one could think of superatoms (very small nanoparticles) which may develop electron shells that resemble those of other elements. One might expect that this would influence the EDX results. So better combine as many methods as possible.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Can you explain how a superatom would form all of the exact EDX signatures of Gold in the same ratios. Likewise for Palladium, Likewise for Silver?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            No, but since this relatively unknown territory I would not be surprised by anything.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Let us see what we can see in the testing again tomorrow.

            How do you explain large transmutations to Au,Zn,K from Cu in Adamenko’s work with only a high joule electric discharge in vacuum.

          • Stephen

            It is an interesting idea even if it is quite unfamiliar territory. I wonder if a slight difference in nucleus mass between the super atoms and equivalent normal atom would be apparent in the spectra?

            Still it’s difficult to see how it could fool both an EDX and Mass Spectrometer. If both are used.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I am aware of that and if it was mass analysis I would agree, but it was EDX,

  • psi2u2

    “i enjoy believing in rossi every day, just like i did with steorn.”

    Well, that’s a key difference then. I NEVER believed in Steorn and still don’t.

  • sam

    April 19, 2017 at 2:13 AM
    It seems that the QuarkX has been running for tests for a very while now which is remarkable for such a small device.

    Would you be able to let us know:

    1. how long the three quarks have been in operation?

    2. If it with the same initial fuel charge.

    3. If not the initial fuel how long with the current fuel charge

    4. If there is any sign of degrading in performance?

    I’m curious if you have found a clever way to extend the life of these kinds of devices from a fueling / catalyst point of view.

    Thanks for all your continued work in these days. We can all learn something about strong composure and resilience and persistence in what’s important when it’s needed from someone like you.

    I’m really glad to hear that your theoretical work with Oscar and Norman continues. They are really interesting and important approaches to understanding LENR. They work really well in synergy I think. Looking forward to see what comes up.

    I’m curious about what happens to the Helium and if it is used in the process some how. Perhaps this theory synergy gives some insights someday… I wonder perhaps it’s useful from ion bombardment / charge carrying or other mechanical points of view… But I look forward to seeing how it works out

    Best Regards and wish you continued strength in the months ahead


    Andrea Rossi
    April 19, 2017 at 7:28 AM
    1. combined and not counting the interruptions, we are close to one year, during which many events happened and many corrections have been made
    2. yes
    3. n.a.
    4. no
    The real duration of a charge will be told only by experience. We’ll go on until we will know.
    Thank you for your kind sustain.
    Warm Regards,

    April 19, 2017 at 1:37 AM
    Dr Rossi:
    Do you think the E-Cat family will be a game changer for the environmental protection ?

    Andrea Rossi
    April 19, 2017 at 7:18 AM
    Could be.
    Warm Regards,

  • Brokeeper

    “Could be.” Buy one. 😎

  • Omega Z

    ->”1) apply for patents and make full disclosure by publishing papers with sufficient detail to allow real independent replication”

    Actually,,, Institutions such as MIT among others have made an art of filing patents without sufficient detail to allow real independent replication.
    You forgot a 3rd way practiced by Bill Gates and Steve Jobs.

    Steal someone elses Intellectual Property, then bury said person in court…

    Steve Jobs had a lot of animosity towards Bill Gates because Gates refused to admit to the above practice…

    • Fibber McGourlic

      Bill Gates stole the idea from whom? I never heard of such a story until now; however, if he did get the idea from somewhere he legally developed it, improved it, and marketed it; and it is now productively used by people throughout the world, is it not? That’s a fair contribution to our well-being that might stands alone and stands out in the history of man, does it not?

      • Fibber McGourlic

        Please excuse the typos It’s stand, not stands.

      • Axil Axil

        Both Gates and Jobs stole the windows concept from xerox.

        The GUI was initially developed as one of many innovative new research projects at Xerox’s Palo Alto Research Center1. Silicon Valley being a small place back then, Steve Jobs got himself a tour one day, and just flat out fell in love with their GUI.

        I had three or four people (at Apple) who kept bugging that I get my rear over to Xerox PARC and see what they are doing. And, so I finally did. I went over there. And they were very kind. They showed me what they are working on. And they showed me really three things. But I was so blinded by the first one that I didn’t even really see the other two. One of the things they showed me was object oriented programming – they showed me that but I didn’t even see that. The other one they showed me was a networked computer system…I didn’t even see that. I was so blinded by the first thing they showed me, which was the graphical user interface. I thought it was the best thing I’d ever seen in my life. Now remember it was very flawed. What we saw was incomplete, they’d done a bunch of things wrong. But we didn’t know that at the time but still thought they had the germ of the idea was there and they’d done it very well. And within – you know – ten minutes it was obvious to me that all computers would work like this some day. It was obvious. You could argue about how many years it would take. You could argue about who the winners and losers might be. You could’t argue about the inevitability, it was so obvious.
        After this visit, Jobs essentially bought himself access to the technology from Xerox by giving the company Apple stock (over the strenuous objections of some of the PARC staff). Some would argue this was a “steal”, but in software you really have to use that term with irony quotes. Ideas are a dime a dozen; its implementation that counts, and Apple knew how to implement it for home users where Xerox was simply incapable of that. Even Apple had to weather one commercially-failed implementation (the Lisa), before their Macintosh took off.

        After the Mac came out, the power of the GUI idea was pretty obvious to everyone. Within a year Commodore and the IBM platform, and a year later Atari all had computers with GUI Operating Systems. So technically there was really nothing unique about what Microsoft did, other than perhaps the scale.

        However, Apple did have cause to feel extra sore with Microsoft, as they let the company in on the concept early as part of a deal to provide software for the Mac’s release. This culminated in a famous operating system “look and feel” copyright lawsuit, which Apple (quite rightly) lost

        • Jonnyb

          Axil was David Frazer at meeting?

      • psi2u2

        It is a pretty common story. You might want to do some research.

        • Fibber McGourlic

          I’m not concerned with where Bill Gates got the idea from. It’s what he (legally) did with it that matters. He’s the one that brought it into the world at large. That’s the key.

          • LCD

            Simply put is ” where is the product?” What is it now 6-7 years since Rossi started? It’s about time to put something out.

            What happened to the huge robotic factory?

      • Vinney

        Steve Jobs stole a few early ideas from Xerox Labs.
        Is was the foundations of MacOs (them

  • Omega Z

    When a product makes it to market…

  • Omega Z

    ->”Heat pumps achieve a COP of up to six”

    And if you live at the equator you may even obtain COP=8. Heat pumps merely move heat from one place to another. However, on “average” we’re talking about COP=3

    Do you know what happens when the outside temperature drops below freezing. Average COP=1. The colder it gets the lower the COP. Can you say COP=0.5

    However, with a geothermal heat pump, you can still average COP=3 to 4 and also reduce cooling cost in the summer. But this has serious costs. $30K to $40K installation fees. And these systems can be problematic. They can freeze up. A backup heat source is highly recommended.

    Rossi merely needs COP=4 to compete and Likely Rossi will have you beat on price point.

  • LION

    The world is changing fast, so expect the unexpected.


  • Gerard McEk

    I expect that at least one of the Qx’s is undergoing a duration test. That is a major aspect of the sigma 5 test. Others will be frequently started and stopped, under- and over-loaded, etc. to find the weak points.
    A major aspect is also radiation, see the comment of Axil to a question of mine below. It is questionable if AR was aware of Mesons, Pions and Muons in the beginning. I hope his illness isn’t a result of that.

  • Stephen

    Great idea I want one of those bikes😀.

    Now my mind is boggling with concepts of Clock Work powered QuarkX enhanced dynamo. Would we start the day winding up our old Grandfather clock and using it to power our house 😉?

    Or perhaps a few minutes on a tread mill or cycle machine in the morning?

    And how about a peddle powered sports car? 😀

  • Charles

    What is the evidence for QuarkX?: Rossi said so, that’s what.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    I certainly believe that Rossi has the quarkX.

    However, we not had any public claim of the COP by Rossi.

    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

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