Issues With Metal Plasma (Axil Axil)

The following post has been submitted by Axil Axil

It might be that the LENR reaction wants to run hot at just below 3000C. This could be why Rossi has had problems with burnouts over the years when the balance between cooling applied to the LENR reactor’s structure and LENR heat production is lost. It may be that a LENR reactor that loses cooling of its structure will fail when the temperature of the plasma produced by LENR begins to rise to its stability point at 2700C.

Rossi’s solution to the reactor meltdown problem as deminstated by the QuarkX is to ensure that his reactor can survive the highest temperature that the LENR reactor can produce.

This could mean that any LENR reactor that depends on external cooling to keep its operating temperature under the LENR reaction stability temperature is subject to meltdown if the external cooling is lost.

Rossi’s sigma 5 testing could be a method to check high temperature endurance in the Quark structural material.

One thought that I have in the back of my mind is that the SunCell reaction can sustain a self-sustaining plasma for minutes on end without any external stimulation or additional energy input. This indicates that a plasma can reach a state of equilibrium where it can maintain its own temperature that does not increase beyond a certain stability point.

Similarities between systems sometimes lends insights to their underlying fundamental characteristics.

Could the QuarkX be a tiny version of the SunCell? If so, this insight could imply some important reactor design principles.

For example, it is interesting that the boiling point of nickel and the 2700C operating temperature of the QuarkX are the same.

It might be that the stability temperature of the plasma based LENR reactor can be set through the use of the metal used in its electrodes. For example, a QuarkX using silver electrodes might have a stable plasma temperature at 2200C which happens to be the boiling point of silver. An alumina tube in a QuarkX configuration just might be able to handle that operating temperature.

There could be a relationship between the boiling point of conductive metal used in the reaction and melting point of the insulating structural material used to confine that metal plasma.

use the link below to find the boiling point of elements

http://periodictable.com/Properties/A/BoilingPoint.st.log.html

A lead electrode might be in the operating range of alumina at lead’s boiling point of 1800C.

Just to give himself some operational safety factor, Rossi may be using Boron Nitride (melting point -> 2,973 °C) for the structural tube for his QuarkX reactor.

The SunCell is sure to melt down when tungsten is used as its electrode metal with a boiling point of 5555C. Using silver makes for a colder reaction. If you use tungsten in your reactor you are asking for a meltdown.

A zirconia tube (2,715 °C) might be able to handle a nickel electrode. A zirconia tube will handle a silver electrode boiling temperature for sure.

An aluminum electrode (2519C ) used with a zirconia tube looks like a good match with some meltdown safety factor tossed in. This apparent materials michmatch Rossi may have had some meltdown issues when he started out using an alumina tube in his hot cat.

If you want to use lithium aluminum hydride to supply your hydrogen, it might be wise to use a zirconia tube.

If you use titanium(3287C) hydride for your hydrogen, you are askings for a meltdown.

  • Axil Axil

    Brian Ahern has given us critical insight into the underpinnings of LENR when he postulates that nanoparticles are central to the LENR reaction. But there particles must be energized when they are newly formed during condensation out of vapor.

  • Axil Axil

    Brian Ahern has given us critical insight into the underpinnings of LENR when he postulates that nanoparticles are central to the LENR reaction. But there particles must be energized when they are newly formed during condensation out of vapor.

  • Dr. Mike

    I don’t believe the QuarkX is a tiny version of the SunCell because there is not enough hydrogen in the QuarkX to produce that much total output energy via the SunCell reaction. Mills claims the SunCell produces about 200 times the amount of energy that you would get from burning hydrogen. With the hydrogen for the SunCell being produced with the reverse reaction of burning hydrogen at about an 85% efficiency (according to what Mills said in one of his presentations) the SunCell has a theoretical maximum COP of about 170. (This could be improved in the future if the SunCell reaction is improved to get more than 200 times the energy of burning hydrogen.) The SunCell will require a hydrogen flow rate of something like 0.3 moles/min to achieve a output temperature of 3000K. If my calculations are correct, a QuarkX could output 20W for only about 4 hours if it started with about 0.1gr of LiAlH4 and if hydrogen consumption produced energy at about 200 times that of hydrogen combustion.

    • Axil Axil

      The loss of hydrogen in the SunCell might be caused by lack of hydrogen containment by the structure of the SunCell. In other words, the SunCell might be leaking hydrogen. Carbon is not known for its hydrogen containment properties. The SunCell could be leaking hydrogen like a sieve.

      Hydrogen containment has to be major issue when the material that is containing hydrogen is as hot as 3000C.

  • Axil Axil

    Rossi claims to be running the QuarkX for a year without refueling.

    One of the biggest challenges in the QuarkX design is keeping hydrogen contained inside the tube at 2700C for an extended period of time. The containment material must have to be very dense, thermally stable, and impermeable to hydrogen escape at those very high temperatures. Hexagonal Boron nitride is a good candidate for a compound that would minimize hydrogen leakage at those extremely high temperatures.

  • Axil Axil

    Rossi claims to be running the QuarkX for a year without refueling.

    One of the biggest challenges in the QuarkX design is keeping hydrogen contained inside the tube at 2700C for an extended period of time. The containment material must have to be very dense, thermally stable, and impermeable to hydrogen escape at those very high temperatures. Hexagonal Boron nitride is a good candidate for a compound that would minimize hydrogen leakage at those extremely high temperatures.

    Other properties that the tube material must possess is derived from being an “electrical insulator”. This is necessary to avoid any electromagnetic interaction from the tube material that might interfere with plasma ions.

    The tube material must not interfere with electrostatic and/or magnetic stimulation. An electrical insulator will provide this property.

    I can understand why Rossi needs to run this reactor for a very long time (sigma 5) to make sure that the tube material holds up both physically and electromagnetically and that this tube does not leak hydrogen to any significant degree.

    And that oxygen corrosion does not affect the structure of the tube over an extended timeframe of a year of operation. As a matter of fact, an oxide coating on the surface of the boron tube will effectively block hydogen penetration through that surface coating.

  • Axil Axil

    Boron nitride and lithium get along well together.

    http://news.rice.edu/2016/04/11/battery-components-can-take-the-heat/

  • Axil Axil

    Boron nitride and lithium get along well together.

    http://news.rice.edu/2016/04/11/battery-components-can-take-the-heat/

  • Metal plasma…that sounds pretty cool!

  • Axil Axil

    https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4300/5j6jyzh/product_images/uploaded_images/boron-nitride.jpg

    Both hexagonal and cubic Boron nitride are transparent at certain EMF wavelengths and cubic BN has the same structure and properties as diamond. BN can be hot pressed to produce a translucent tube that will allow high energy photons to pass through. Using this stuff, there is a good chance that the SunCell could be miniaturized to produce XUV light with the same characteristics of the SunCell and pass that light through a translucent BN tube.

    The key to this concept is the manufacture of the tube. BN is hot pressed just like the other ceramic materials that are used in LENR to form tubes. A refractory metal like Tungsten could be used for the heat resistance electrodes and Solar cells could surround the BN tube or an array of BN tubes. In effect using BN, the SunCell could be converted into a solid state device with no moving parts.

    Silver could be used as a metal vapor in the same way that occurs in the SunCell. A photonic base down shifting mechanism such as used in a florescent light bulb could be used to convert the XUV light into the visible light range usable by Solar Cells. The Boron based SunCell would have a huge cost advantage over the current SunCell design and not it is open source.

    http://www.ioffe.ru/SVA/NSM/Semicond/BN/figs/zunger762s.gif

    Most of the ultraviolet wavelengths are not absorbed by BN.

  • Axil Axil

    https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4300/5j6jyzh/product_images/uploaded_images/boron-nitride.jpg

    Both hexagonal and cubic Boron nitride are transparent at certain EMF wavelengths and cubic BN has the same structure and properties as diamond. BN can be hot pressed to produce a translucent tube that will allow high energy photons to pass through. Using this stuff, there is a good chance that the SunCell could be miniaturized to produce XUV light with the same characteristics of the SunCell and pass that light through a translucent BN tube.

    The key to this concept is the manufacture of the tube. BN is hot pressed just like the other ceramic materials that are used in LENR to form tubes. A refractory metal like Tungsten could be used for the heat resistance electrodes and Solar cells could surround the BN tube or an array of BN tubes. In effect using BN, the SunCell could be converted into a solid state device with no moving parts.

    Silver could be used as a metal vapor in the same way that occurs in the SunCell. A photonic base down shifting mechanism such as used in a florescent light bulb could be used to convert the XUV light into the visible light range usable by Solar Cells. The Boron based SunCell would have a huge cost advantage over the current SunCell design and not it is open source.

    http://www.ioffe.ru/SVA/NSM/Semicond/BN/figs/zunger762s.gif

    Most of the ultraviolet wavelengths are not absorbed by BN.

  • Axil Axil

    The SunCell’s mechanism for producing over unity energy is a self sustaining plasma that requires no external energy input. It sounds counterproductive to that reaction for it to be cooled. Cooling is applied to the solar cells that cannot operate at the ambient temperature of the self sustaining plasma. The function of this plasma is to produce extreme ultra violet light and not heat. In fact, most of the EMF coming off the this plasma are high energy photons. It is highly probable that the heat produced by the plasma is what produces and sustains the plasma.

    Rossi also claims to be producing a self sustaining plasma.

    In the solid state SunCell that has been described below, it is possible to thermally isolate the tube that is producing the self sustaining plasma using a vacuum formed between the inner and concentric outer BN tube. This outer BN tube completely encloses and thermally isolates the primary inner tube where the self sustaining plasma is being generated.

    To apply this thinking to the SunCell itself as a design upgrade, the cooling system can be removed from the SunCell design if the solar cells are inclosed in a chamber made of boron nitride or some other translucent ceramic material that is kept in a vacuum to isolate the solar cells from 3000C heat produce by the plasma.

    In the picture below, SunCell cooling system is labeled “Heat Rejection” and “PV Module Cooling”. The car radiator, associated piping, valves, and pumps can all be removed from the SunCell design.

    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pHeyH3Qsxd8/V8aCqsfpLgI/AAAAAAAADxk/8ZoYKN7Piw4ngjU3Rra1RaHjFeyL2qyFQCLcB/s1600/New%2BPicture.bmp

  • Axil Axil

    The SunCell’s mechanism for producing over unity energy is a self sustaining plasma that requires no external energy input. It sounds counterproductive to that reaction for it to be cooled. Cooling is applied to the solar cells that cannot operate at the ambient temperature of the self sustaining plasma. The function of this plasma is to produce extreme ultra violet light and not heat. In fact, most of the EMF coming off the this plasma are high energy photons. It is highly probable that the heat produced by the plasma is what produces and sustains the plasma.

    Rossi also claims to be producing a self sustaining plasma.

    In the solid state SunCell that has been described below, it is possible to thermally isolate the tube that is producing the self sustaining plasma using a vacuum formed between the inner and concentric outer BN tube. This outer BN tube completely encloses and thermally isolates the primary inner tube where the self sustaining plasma is being generated.

    To apply this thinking to the SunCell itself as a design upgrade, the cooling system can be removed from the SunCell design if the solar cells are inclosed in a chamber made of boron nitride or some other translucent ceramic material that is kept in a vacuum to isolate the solar cells from 3000C heat produce by the plasma.

    In the picture below, SunCell cooling system is labeled “Heat Rejection” and “PV Module Cooling”. The car radiator, associated piping, electric fans, valves, and pumps can all be removed from the SunCell design by using insolation rather that heat rejection.

    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pHeyH3Qsxd8/V8aCqsfpLgI/AAAAAAAADxk/8ZoYKN7Piw4ngjU3Rra1RaHjFeyL2qyFQCLcB/s1600/New%2BPicture.bmp

  • Ophelia Rump

    Axil Axil, you might enjoy this read.

    Physicists discover that lithium oxide on tokamak walls can improve plasma performance
    https://phys.org/news/2017-05-physicists-lithium-oxide-tokamak-walls.html

    The oxide continues to bond with hydrogen.

    • cashmemorz

      One more point I notice towards hot and cold fusion helping each other. But who will be first to market? So far hot fusion shows no signs of co-operating. Too much to save face if they join with cold fusion. Reputation, reputation. It is too much about ego and institutionalized self responsibility and how people will look at them if they bend towards the “fringe”.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Axil Axil, you might enjoy this read.

    Physicists discover that lithium oxide on tokamak walls can improve plasma performance
    https://phys.org/news/2017-05-physicists-lithium-oxide-tokamak-walls.html

    The oxide continues to bond with hydrogen.

    • cashmemorz

      One more point I notice towards hot and cold fusion helping each other. But who will be first to market? So far hot fusion shows no signs of co-operating. Too much to save face if they join with cold fusion. Reputation, reputation. It is too much about ego and institutionalized self responsibility and how people will look at them if they bend towards the “fringe”.