MFMP Seeks Crowd Input in Analyzing “Unexpected Results” in ECCO Fuel and Foil Spectrometry Data

A new post on the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project’s Steemit page provides results of testing on fuel and foil used in the ECCO reactor built by Indian researcher Suhas Ralkar. The MFMP is intending to go to India in the near future to test this reactor, but they already have been sent some samples for analysis.

We analysed the part processed fuel and foil that was supplied to us by Suhas Ralkar designed for use in the ECCO “free energy” reactor.

When analysing the reactor structure Ni foil and part processed fuel with EDX at Masaryk University, amongst other elements, in the foil we found unexpected Au, Ag, Pd and in the powder, Nb, Sn, Zr and a large quantity of Pb.

Foil production inputs
SS304 anode and cathode, de-ionised water (will absorb CO2 from air), nickel sulphate, electric discharge, 200V DC pluses at 300kHz and 300kHz and surface wave on SS304 substrate

Part-processed fuel inputs
SS304 container, de-ionised water (will absorb CO2 from air), Ti (80-100um), Ni (80-100um), C (5um), 4.5kW of 19.46kHz sound.

The full data can be found here: https://steemit.com/blog/@mfmp/ecco-analysis-of-reactor-and-fuel-components-showing-unexpected-elements

  • Stephen Harrison

    Pure speculation , but might there be a connection in terms of silver with this post from Jones Beene on Vortex
    http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg114525.html

  • orsobubu

    I always wonder if possible gold/silver etc transmutations could bring havoc in precious metals market, so destabilizing the financial world asset. China, Russia and other countries are someway caressing the idea of establish a new monetary order alternative to US dollar and based on a basket composed by gold too. This possibility could convince world governments to put a brake on LENR research? Could this transmutated gold be identified from natural mineral?

    • Omega Z

      This is silly group think. The true value of gold is for technological and manufacturing purposes. It’s current value is based on speculation and false values. The U.S. Government could dump just a small quatity of it’s reserves and crash the value of gold and silver to a few dollars an once.

      Should the entire world economy collapse and I have a million bushel of corn and a million bushel of wheat and YOU have all the gold in the world, which do you think would have more value.

      Much like diamonds hold value because a few control their production. We have the technology to make diamonds much larger much cheaper with unmatched quality to those produced by nature.

      Some years ago, China floated the idea of replacing the Dollar with their REN. The U.S. said go for it. China backed down. You should contemplate why. Even they understood it would GREATLY benefit the U.S. and become a burden for them.

      That you don’t understand it is because of your slanted prejudicial poltical and economic views. Understand you can practice trade in any currency the world over(Nothing stopping you), yet everyone works through the currency trade system to do business in the dollar. To the detriment of the U.S. I would add.

      While some simplistic minded in the U.S. are concerned about U.S. isolationism, you should listen to leaders around the world. They are supper concerned with the prospect.

      • cashmemorz

        Even in a simplistic off-hand estimation (a view that many have it seems) of what the current effect of transmutation would be. At this point in time the amount of precious metals that can be produced by transmutation is probably in total so small you would need a microscope to see it. Try to sell that to someone. By the time transmutation gets to be a significant source for any element, be it gold or deuterium, everyone who has an interest in that particular element will have figured out sources that are just as cheap or cheaper. Asteroid mining is one place to get stuff cheap, once we have LENR powered space craft. Both technologies at that level are still decades away. I’m not investing in either untill major news breaks about either or any off that kind of tech. Revolutions sometimes take the slow route.

        • Bob Greenyer

          You make some good points – however, in the case of Lead, Suhas’ fuel processor appears to be very capable with a high yield – shame lead is not a precious metal.

        • Omega Z

          I fully agree, And probably they mined more gold this week then a century of gold produced by mutation.

      • orsobubu

        hehe it appears to me you’re complaining about some structural aspects of capitalism… I’m with you Omega Z!
        thx for your explanations on gold and US dollar and isolationism. I think you’re right. In any case, you will agree it’s a very interesting thing that an ounce of gold kept the exact same goods buying capabilities than millennia ago. When we’ll seize the power – Lenin said – we will case our toilets in gold! Are you with comrade orsobubu, dear Omega Z???

    • Dude, you should watch that Twilight Zone episode called: “The Rip Van Winkle Caper.”

      • orsobubu

        thx!!! I finished to watch the first season years ago and just started the second!

  • Gerard McEk

    The link does not seem to work.

  • Gerard McEk

    The link does not seem to work.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    It would be interesting to learn more about the role of hydrogen in this context. Unfortunately, the process requires water, so that hydrogen cannot be left out. But a comparative experiment using D2O instead of H2O could provide some insights. An essentially different result would indicate that the water was more than just an electrolytic medium.

    • Bob Greenyer

      That is a test I would love to do, but there will be no time in India. The foil process requires a LOT of water, the powder process would be more doable, but this requires 200 hours.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    It would be interesting to learn more about the role of hydrogen in this context. Unfortunately, the process requires water, so that hydrogen cannot be left out. But a comparative experiment using D2O instead of H2O could provide some insights. An essentially different result would indicate that the water was more than just an electrolytic medium.

    • Bob Greenyer

      That is a test I would love to do, but there will be no time in India. The foil process requires a LOT of water, the powder process would be more doable, but this requires 200 hours.

  • Bob Matulis

    Sounds like alchemy. Indian is the world’s largest importer of gold for jewelry.

    • Mats002

      Did Suhas or the EDX operator wear a Rolex clock? 😉

      • Bob Greenyer

        No.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Implications?

  • Bob Matulis

    Sounds like alchemy. India is the world’s largest importer of gold for jewelry.

  • Mats002

    Did Suhas or the EDX operator wear a Rolex clock? 😉

    • Bob Greenyer

      No.

  • Bob Greenyer

    To put some context to this, the foil was only meant to be nickel with some obvious contamination of Sulphur.

    The powder is meant to have ‘ions’ implanted into it and Suhas’ technology name suggests that he expected transmutation in the fuel preparation.

    “Resonant Ultrasonic Bubble Ionisation Implantation Transmutation”

    RUBIIT technology

    but the main reason, as I understood it, was to get the particles to a smaller and specific maximum size range.

    I never expected to see such a bulk transmutation, if that is what it is.

    • Stephen

      This is looking really interesting.

      Is the MARDI data supporting the EDX results?

      I wish I had the knowledge to interpret that data. Especially the role if any of the “weighted adducts” (im not sure what adducts are? are adducts combinations of atoms such as atomic pairs… or are they atoms with compound nuclei as Piantelli H- ion ingestion? Or something else).

      Would small differences in mass between atomic species and adducts of similar mass be detectable with this data?

      I hope someone can interpret this data it looks interesting.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Dear Stephen,

        I have answered these in a response to the steemit post and added two more videos to help illustrate my answer.

    • Stephen

      Hi Bob out of curiosity… do you know what the specific maximum size range of the particles is? .

      • Bob Greenyer

        <5um

        • Stephen

          Hmmm interesting. I wonder what amount of energy those oscillations would correspond to in an individual particle of that size. Would it be enough to ionize the adsorbed hydrogen (or other sorbed gases or Lithium) on the surface I wonder…?

          Is this done in a hydrogen atomosphere? Or are the particles already hydrogenated at that point?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Hi Stephen,

            It maybe that there are many m-state atoms (energetic isomers) formed in the fuel processor, or Jaques Defours’ pico-hydrides.

            Into the reactor cores, Suhas additionally adds Titanium Hydride

            https://steemit.com/science/@mfmp/ecco-new-fire-individual-reactor-core-cross-section-and-operation

          • Stephen

            Yup it’s getting interesting… it looks like there are going to be many layers to this story as it unfolds but if something is happening then perhaps it takes something like these states and their particular characteristics to manifest.

            Are they m-states stimulated directly from the 1MHz stimulation… or is the metal hydride particle a machine that uses this 1MHz stimulation to create the necessary secondary stimuli…(interaction with dense or constrained hydrogen ions for example). Could LENR also cause those secondary stimuli (by ionizating adsorbed Hydrogen for example)

            If those m-states are constrained in a crystal lattice would the be Mossbauer isotopes? If so could they be associated lattice vibrations or would that only occur in a crystal containing only one element? if so could this vibrations be near the Debye temperature? If so could that enhance other effects perhaps associated with LENR such as H anion uptake etc.

            Could plasmonics on the surface of these particles play a role? Are they optically or plasmonics black? Or optically shiny particles?

            Could the thermal dynamics of adsorption of Metal Hydrides and kinetics of ionization lead the particles achieving optimum temperature associated with recoil in the Mossbauer effect.

            Is it all a surface effect or can they stimulate the cores if the particles?

            I can’t help thinking it is the size of these particles in the particular stimulation and environment that makes the machine…

            But I have good hopes that ECCO and Nova could shed some light on some if these questions.

          • Stephen

            Hi Bob, does Suhas use our TiH2 or some other kind of bi metallic Hydride such as TiCrH or TiFeH or some other kind of trimetalic Hydride such as TiMoCrH?

            Hydrides can have very different thermodynamic properties for adsorbtion and desorption depending on the materials used… as evidenced in the “van’t Hoff” plots for these materials… TiH2 for example has quite high temperature for these properties above 670 K to about 900 K depending on pressure the other Hydrides above however have much lower values and can extend over much larger temperature ranges… TiMoCrH for example can range from below 220 K to 370 K.

            Since the thermodynamics of adsorption and desorption would be local to individual particles… perhaps local effects are important.

            I’ve already mentioned above the hot heating case with Adsorption.

            Could pressure induced desorption of a very small particle TiMoCrH result in it locally achieving very low temperatures despite the wider environment being hotter?

            If so could a material be found that can have these properties at sufficiently cold temperatures for other affects such as superconductivity, Bose einstein condensates and perhaps EVO’s or something similar to more easily manifest.

            I always appreciated Axils ideas etc but had trouble understanding how these effects could manifest in a high temperatures but perhaps they can if at particle level we can have very localized very cold temperatures formed by this kind of process.

            Pure speculation of course and I expect the ideas are wrong somewhere but it’s interesting to consider these possibilities I think.

            (Incidentally it’s probably important to consider the thermal dynamics and kinetics of adsorption and desorption in Hydrogen Metal Hydrides in understanding the experiment data.

            I suppose at very high temperatures the Nickel is not able to adsorb or contain adsorbed hydrogen any more too.. )

            It’s not about LENR but the following link describes quite well some things about the topic:

            http://cdn.intechweb.org/pdfs/21876.pdf

            And here is a very interesting paper by some one called Marc Linder about automotive cooling systems based on metal Hydrides that I found on the internet the use of combination of two different metal Hydrides like this for heat pumps is quite an interesting concept I think.

            I can’t help wondering if these properties are somehow indirectly important for LENR especially where they are combined be ionization stimulation desorption or stimulated hydrogen excitation instead of thermal desorption or in the case of adsorption by charge assisted adsorption.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thanks for this, I hope to address your points with an update on ECCO that I will start authoring (and hopefully publish) tomorrow.

          • Stephen

            Hi Bob

            Here is another very interesting and extremely rich in information publication on “charged induced enhancement of hydrogen adsorption for hydrogen storage materials” by someone called Xiang Sun.

            http://digitalcommons.mtu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=etds

            I’m not sure it contains the thermal dynamics and kinetics data I was originally looking for… But….

            It contains over 197 pages of really good clear data and information including very good background and clear development of his ideas and results.

            I was very impressed by this publication and couldn’t help thinking a lot of his observations could be applicable to LENR…

            His method and discussion about sustaining the hydrogen plasma at workable temperatures is particularly interesting. Also his discussion on Hydrogen clusters etc. There is a lot in here…. As I say it rich in useful information

          • Bob Greenyer

            Wah, that is a massive document – I’ll have to put it in the queue – thanks all the same! Perhaps, you could pick out some tasty chunks from it for closer inspection?

    • roseland67

      Bob,
      Did you replicate the entire experiment?

  • Bob Greenyer

    To put some context to this, the foil was only meant to be nickel with some obvious contamination of Sulphur.

    The powder is meant to have ‘ions’ implanted into it and Suhas’ technology name suggests that he expected transmutation in the fuel preparation.

    “Resonant Ultrasonic Bubble Ionisation Implantation Transmutation”

    RUBIIT technology

    but the main reason, as I understood it, was to get the particles to a smaller and specific maximum size range.

    I never expected to see such a bulk transmutation, if that is what it is.

    • Stephen

      This is looking really interesting.

      Is the MALDI data supporting the EDX results?

      From your report It seems so I think.

      I wish I had the knowledge to interpret that data. Especially the role if any of the “weighted adducts” (im not sure what adducts are? are adducts combinations of atoms such as atomic pairs… or are they atoms with compound nuclei such as with as Piantelli H- ion ingestion? Or something else).

      Would small differences in mass between atomic species and adducts of similar mass be detectable with this data?

      I hope someone can interpret this data it looks interesting.

      I’m really fascinated if the evidence is really pointing to heavier nuclei combining in some form, fusion of these nuclei would be stunning scientifically but even some other kind of joining would be equally amazing.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Dear Stephen,

        I have answered these in a response to the steemit post and added two more videos to help illustrate my answer.

    • Stephen

      Hi Bob out of curiosity… do you know what the specific maximum size range of the particles is? .

      • Bob Greenyer

        <5um and the 'around 1MHz' of the transducers in the ECCO reactor is designed to cause maximum oscillation through and over the surface of the particles at this size.

        • Stephen

          Hmmm interesting. I wonder what amount of energy those oscillations would correspond to in an individual particle of that size. Would it be enough to ionize or otherwise excite or “activate” the adsorbed hydrogen (or other sorbed gases or Lithium) on the surface I wonder?….

          Is this done in a hydrogen atomosphere? Or are the particles already hydrogenated at that point?

          I’m not sure what it all means yet but if this test pans out. I have a feeling the particular parameters of the ECCO test could become very helpful to better understand the process eventually.

          Great to hear Bob Higgins is planning a test inspired by ECCO and NOVA too.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Hi Stephen,

            It maybe that there are many m-state atoms (energetic isomers) formed in the fuel processor, or Jaques Defours’ pico-hydrides.

            Into the reactor cores, Suhas additionally adds Titanium Hydride

            https://steemit.com/science/@mfmp/ecco-new-fire-individual-reactor-core-cross-section-and-operation

          • Stephen

            Yup it’s getting interesting… it looks like there are going to be many layers to this story as it unfolds but if something is happening then perhaps it takes something like these states and their particular characteristics to manifest.

            Are they m-states stimulated directly from the 1MHz stimulation… or is the metal hydride particle a machine that uses this 1MHz stimulation to create the necessary secondary stimuli…(interaction with dense or constrained hydrogen ions for example). Could LENR also cause those secondary stimuli (by ionizating adsorbed Hydrogen for example)

            If those m-states nuclei atoms are constrained in a nano crystal lattice would the be Mossbauer isotopes? If so could they be associated lattice vibrations or would that only occur in a crystal containing only one element? if so could this vibrations be near the Debye temperature? If so could that enhance other effects perhaps associated with LENR such as H anion uptake etc.

            Could plasmonics on the surface of these particles play a role? Are they optically or plasmonics black? Or optically shiny particles?

            Could the thermal dynamics of adsorption of Metal Hydrides and kinetics of ionization lead the particles achieving optimum temperature associated with recoil in the Mossbauer effect.

            Is it all a surface effect or can they stimulate the cores if the particles?

            I can’t help thinking it is the size and the particular properties of these metal Hydride particles in the particular stimulation and environment that makes the machine…

            I think this is may be where the “skills of the art” are found and those are maybe more to to do with well known properties of Metal Hydrides such as the thermal dynamics and kinetics of sorption ionization, excitation and activation and particular electromagnetic properties dusty plasmas rather than LENR itself. Perhaps by understanding those skills of the art and getting them right the conditions for LENR to take place naturally follow. With no special “secret ingredients” needed.

            Regarding Isomers: There are also some isomers that have particular energy levels that are quite close to K Alpha/ Beta X-ray lines of some elements I suppose normally they are not quite close enough… but perhaps in some environment the Kalpha frequencies can be tuned to stimulate mossbauer resonances. If so that would be interesting. Or alternatively could soft KeV rays from Bremstrahlung radiation similarly stimulate these mossbauer frequencies?

            If so does Ni61 or Fe57 play an important role?

            But I have good hopes that ECCO and Nova could shed some light on some of these questions.

          • Stephen

            Hi Bob, does Suhas use TiH2 or some other kind of bi metallic Hydride such as TiCrH or TiFeH or some other kind of trimetalic Hydride such as TiMoCrH?

            Hydrides can have very different thermodynamic properties for adsorbtion and desorption depending on the materials used… as evidenced in the “van’t Hoff” plots for these materials… TiH2 for example has quite high temperature for these properties above 670 K to about 900 K depending on pressure the other Hydrides above however have much lower values and can extend over much larger temperature ranges… TiMoCrH for example can range from below 220 K to 370 K.

            Since the thermodynamics of adsorption and desorption would be local to individual particles… perhaps local effects are important.

            I’ve already mentioned above the hot heating case with Adsorption.

            Could pressure induced desorption of a very small particle TiMoCrH result in it locally achieving very low temperatures despite the wider environment being hotter?

            If so could a material be found that can have these properties at sufficiently cold temperatures for other affects such as superconductivity, Bose einstein condensates and perhaps EVO’s or something similar to more easily manifest.

            I always appreciated Axils ideas etc but had trouble understanding how these effects could manifest in a high temperatures but perhaps they can if at particle level we can have very localized very cold temperatures formed by this kind of process.

            Pure speculation of course and I expect the ideas are wrong somewhere but it’s interesting to consider these possibilities I think.

            (Incidentally it’s probably important to consider the thermal dynamics and kinetics of adsorption and desorption in Hydrogen Metal Hydrides for the Nickel as well as the Lithium in understanding the experiment data. Especially during the thermal and pressure cycling phase.

            I suppose at very high temperatures the Nickel is not able to adsorb or contain adsorbed hydrogen any more too.. )

            It’s not about LENR but the following link describes quite well some things about the topic:

            http://cdn.intechweb.org/pdfs/21876.pdf

            And here is a very interesting paper by some one called Marc Linder about automotive cooling systems based on metal Hydrides that I found on the internet the use of combination of two different metal Hydrides like this for heat pumps is quite an interesting concept I think.

            https://elib.uni-stuttgart.de/bitstream/11682/1899/1/Dissertation_Linder.pdf

            I can’t help wondering if these properties are somehow indirectly important for LENR especially where they are combined be ionization stimulation desorption or stimulated hydrogen excitation instead of thermal desorption or in the case of adsorption by charge assisted adsorption.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thanks for this, I hope to address your points with an update on ECCO that I will start authoring (and hopefully publish) tomorrow.

          • Stephen

            Hi Bob

            Here is another very interesting and extremely rich in information publication on “charged induced enhancement of hydrogen adsorption for hydrogen storage materials” by someone called Xiang Sun.

            http://digitalcommons.mtu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=etds

            I’m not sure it contains the thermal dynamics and kinetics data I was originally looking for… But….

            It contains over 190 pages of really good clear data and information including very good background and clear development of his ideas and results.

            I was very impressed by this publication and couldn’t help thinking a lot of his observations could be applicable to LENR…

            The method and discussion about sustaining the hydrogen plasma at workable temperatures (with out over heating) using microwaves is particularly interesting. Also the discussion on Hydrogen clusters etc. There is a lot in here…. As I say it rich in useful information

          • Bob Greenyer

            Wah, that is a massive document – I’ll have to put it in the queue – thanks all the same! Perhaps, you could pick out some tasty chunks from it for closer inspection?

          • Stephen

            Hah you are right it’s a lot to digest, and I don’t want to distract you from all the other important work you are doing at the moment. Maybe keep it in mind for later when the other projects are more settled. I will try later to take a look as you requested to pick out the particularly useful points or relevant issues to current testing. The part on the microwave plasma caught my attention initially.

            I was initially chasing the thermodynamics and kinetics of sorbtion as a route the the thermal aspects of LENR especially for very small particles less than um..

            But If I understood right from this particular study the very hot part comes from thermalisation of the initial “cool” Hydrogen plasma in the glow discharge rather than in the electrodes themselves. This heating of the plasma to very high temperatures apparently happens very rapidly. Interestingly I understand he could control the temperature rise to sustainable manageable values with out burn out by applying the microwaves… I need to look deeper I think to better understand this.

            It’s also interesting his discussion on hydrogen clusters. It maybe these are only applicable at low temperatures but i wonder if they can be involved at higher temperatures too.

            The Metal Hydrides experiments he performed do seem quite similar in nature to those performed for LENR. Especially those where glow discharge is observed. I’m quite curious if he observed LENR effects in his experiments without realizing it or even looking for it.

            Would applied changing magnetic field cause charge effects to occur in Nickel particles I wonder and if so could they impact hydrogen sorption?

            Incidentally on a different topic have Nickel nanocarpets been considered and tested in LENR devices?

            http://pubs.rsc.org/services/images/RSCpubs.ePlatform.Service.FreeContent.ImageService.svc/ImageService/Articleimage/2009/CP/b909899b/b909899b-f1.gif

            http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2009/cp/b909899b

            They have been studied for their super hydrophobic properties which is interesting in some ways… But more relevantly I could not find any thing on their use for hydrogen storage etc.

            I’m curious about them for a number of reasons:

            1. each fiber has very narrow diameter in the nano meter/ sub micrometer range, they are individually rough, they are densely packed but aligned and separated.

            If LENR stimulates activity on adjacent sites due to radiation or ion emission or something from the surface it seems to me this geometry and arrangement is optimum for that.

            2. since the are connected to a common surface perhaps that could be used for electrical connection to allow the carpet to be used as a cathode or anode for glow discharge, or to allow electrical or thermal energy harvesting from the LENR, or to allow some kind of thermal control through thermal conduction. Or even allow charge enhanced hydrogen sorbtion as discussed above.

            3. Being Nickel they have magnetic properties that may be useful for stimulation etc but could also be exploited to move and align the fibers to some useful effect… maybe.

            Well just thought I’d mention this in the interest of OS incase it’s useful for LENR.

            I wonder if they can adsorbe hydrogen or other gases effectively and or if the retain their carpet structure if coated in a mono layer of carbon…. or lithium….

          • Bob Greenyer

            The notes on Hydrogen clusters is interesting.

            Also the Ni carpets – I have not seen those used – however, they do not seem optimal considering the claims of ovoid like structures being advantageous as seems to be the case with Celani, Mizuno, Suhas, Adamenko, me356

          • Stephen

            Hmmm interesting point about ovoid structures especially if it’s supported by so many interesting cases.

            Wow there’s always something new to learn with this subject.

            The carpets are manufactured from electrolysis with an alumina template that is eventually dissolved away to leave the carpet… I wonder if such a an alumina template could also optimize the production of these ovoid structures or incorporate them into the nano fibers some how… directly by introducing the structures during the electrolysis it self or by introducing a “weakness” at the electrolysis stage that can be exploited by subsequent processing such as thermal of acoustic treatment to introduce those structures then.

            Really interesting new thread about Ecco by the way. I’m looking forward to that analysis.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Well, Alumina forms a honeycomb structure, this is what they use to add teflon to an aluminium pan or in anodising.

    • Charlie tapp

      Off topic but what the hell??? No summary or any word at all about the me356 testing. And why is no one asking? I commented days ago on mfmp website with no replies back that website is a ghost town now adays am I not looking in the right place for new info? Please let me know. that test was a really big deal to some people and the lack of anyone talking about iis bothering me. Also I try to do the steemit it thing but new to me and don’t really get why you guys are useing it other than for publishing things. Also what was up with red pill is that where everyone is at? last time I looked it did not go anywhere what is red pill anyways you were supposed to let us know and still no one gets it. And all those videos at the same time ? I thought mabee you seen something that someone showed you, something that without doubt worked but been a while since all that wierd stuff unless of course you can’t say anything which I understand. Still just a quick note on things here and there would be cool. No one actually expects for another test from him was a lot of money and time but a little more on the reasons would help a lot if you just go off the internet it was you guys that messed up and jumped the gun to get there ( kind of me356 own words)I don’t blame you at all I would have went earlier my self. Sorry just very frustrating to me and I am getting older and just don’t want to miss anything

      • HAL9000

        LENERbuster’s recap scorecard of the Me356 fiasco:

        Score: MFMP 1, Claimant 0

        Trust me, you did not miss anything. ECCO testing will be more useful.

        • Bob Greenyer

          About sums it up if we are starting from AURA. Perhaps me356 will have got a reactor/fuel combo into a more favourable state.

      • Bob Greenyer

        We are preparing a lessons learned. Since no details of the fuel, fuel processing or reactor internals or control/triggering were shared, much is not available to say.

        We all were exhausted, I went to the UK to visit family for a few days, Brian and Ryan had to get back and catch up with their day jobs and family responsibilities (try packing 2 months of intensive development around your day job) and Alan and I went to the conference in Asti, where I was presenting and had to research and prepare a presentation.

        I got back and started the back log of analysis.

        I will touch base in the coming days with me356 and see if he has had time to process a batch of fuel and if that then produced a different result other than the extremely clearly demonstrated result we obtained whilst there.

        me356 did not play his best hand, it baffles me the choices he made between january and the test – he has our equipment with him to see if his other reactors perform better. Our apparatus performed far better than expected as our first evaluation of a steam system.

        The Lugano report took several months to prepare even with paid professionals on the job – they still got it wrong. What ever we write, it will not change the fact that the AURA device did not produce any excess heat on this test cycle – let’s hope it does moving forward.

        Other than that I have about a weeks work doing the MFMP accounts for the UK tax authorities, I want to arrange some SEM/EDX on samples from me356, get the radiographic plates developed and sort visas and logistics for India – and that is just a small fraction on my roster.

        Steemit is far easier to post to, allows in-line comments – including embedded YT vids and drag and drop images – is spam free and those that joined in March have around $70 even if they did nothing! It is stamped into the block chain, indexed by google and cannot be sensored – also it is responsive, so accessible from anywhere.

        • Omega Z

          So whats the hold up.
          You act like your busy and have a life outside of this work. Oh My. lol

          • Bob Greenyer

            This is not including family commitments and trying to earn a living

        • Andre Blum

          @bobgreenyer:disqus I am quite familiar with blockchain technology, have read and deeply understand the bitcoin whitepaper by satoshi, have invested in several cryptocurrencies and am (as you know) a software developer with 30 years experience. Still, every time I charge up to try to understand steemit and the mechanisms behind it even to just the level of being able to use it effectively, I give up out of a feeling of (needless) complexity. Without meaning to sound superior or anything, I would like to ask: if /even I/ don’t understand it, who can?

          • Bob Greenyer

            What I understand is that it allows free access to articles without annoying pop-ups/overlays (for non-members) and adverts (for members) – when compared to FaceBook.

            I understand that it has nice and easy formatting, drag and drop and is black on White (which people seem to like) and eSteem for mobiles also has a night mode.

            It allows threaded discourse and users can format their comments with all the power of the original post (tables, highlighting, titles, images, photos)

            It requires no server to be paid for.

            Only the author of content can edit or delete it.

            Oh, and people can, apparently, withdraw cash to their own account if they earn some. Regardless of this I do not know of a platform that offers all of the above.

        • Steve H

          Bob – for the record.
          Your tenacity and dedication in trying to nail this technology is hugely appreciated. That obviously goes for your colleagues at MFMP.
          I assume there are others who feel the same way. We are not the most vocal people however.

          • Andre Blum

            Couldn’t agree more!
            and BTW I hold the same sentiment for me356, who got to endure a lot of negative comments that made me feel slightly ashamed for this community.

          • Bob Greenyer

            me356s’ willingness to be tested openly should be held up as a standard of excellence for the community – had certain others done the same when offered (in 2012) we may already have a proven technology on the table – or not.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thanks, it is always uncomfortable when the truth is not as we would wish. The MFMP was not set up to make a truth but to establish it, whatever that may be – sometimes people, including claimants can get upset when what is thought was real turns out not to be, however, there is more than enough in the spread of the projects experience to be encouraging.

            Apparent transmutation is one of those things, if we cannot explain it away then we must consider that there be something more going on. Part of our process has always been to share the raw data – it is what it is, artefact and systemic error may be a part of it and this is what we must be comfortable with as we continue learning. Seeing the same elements across analysis techniques is encouraging.

            The crowd can and has played such an important part in challenging data at every stage, all of the MFMP appreciate the efforts made by our followers – our preparations for these tests would not have been so successful (in determining a clear cut answer to AURA round 1) without the attention of many here – we employed the best tools and approaches suggested to the best of our ability.

            The team members will all be happy about your comments.

            In my coming presentations I hope to put out some more radical thinking for consideration – Suhas’ fuel is telling us something and apparently others have seen similar things too… more on that later.

        • Anon2012_2014

          Bob,

          Happy Father’s Day!

          -Anon12/14

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thanks! Off out with the kids, some bubbles and a ball.

    • roseland67

      Bob,
      Did you replicate the entire experiment?

  • Omega Z

    This is silly group think. The true value of gold is for technological and manufacturing purposes. It’s current value is based on speculation and false values. The U.S. Government could dump just a small quatity of it’s reserves and crash the value of gold and silver to a few dollars an once.

    Should the entire world economy collapse and I have a million bushel of corn and a million bushel of wheat and YOU have all the gold in the world, which do you think would have more value.

    Much like diamonds hold value because a few control their production. We have the technology to make diamonds much larger much cheaper with unmatched quality to those produced by nature.

    Some years ago, China floated the idea of replacing the Dollar with their REN. The U.S. said go for it. China backed down. You should contemplate why. Even they understood it would GREATLY benefit the U.S. and become a burden for them.

    That you don’t understand it is because of your slanted prejudicial poltical and economic views. Understand you can practice trade in any currency the world over(Nothing stopping you), yet everyone works through the currency trade system to do business in the dollar. To the detriment of the U.S. I would add.

    While some simplistic minded in the U.S. are concerned about U.S. isolationism, you should listen to leaders around the world. They are supper concerned with the prospect.

    • cashmemorz

      Even in a simplistic off-hand estimation (a view that many have it seems) of what the current effect of transmutation would be. At this point in time the amount of precious metals that can be produced by transmutation is probably in total so small you would need a microscope to see it. Try to sell that to someone. By the time transmutation gets to be a significant source for any element, be it gold or deuterium, everyone who has an interest in that particular element will have figured out sources that are just as cheap or cheaper. Asteroid mining is one place to get stuff cheap, once we have LENR powered space craft. Both technologies at that level are still decades away. I’m not investing in either untill major news breaks about either or any off that kind of tech. Revolutions sometimes take the slow route.

      • Bob Greenyer

        You make some good points – however, in the case of Lead, Suhas’ fuel processor appears to be very capable with a high yield – shame lead is not a precious metal.

      • Omega Z

        I fully agree, And probably they mined more gold this week then a century of gold produced by mutation.

  • I’m confused about this one…then again, I ain’t no expert.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I have added another video that discussed how you use the MALDI in positive (for metals) and negative (for oxides).

    I have not analysed any of the negative modes, so there is an opportunity with mMass to do things like look for metal oxide signatures using the negative data sets. This might help clarify some finding.

    Would really appreciate if anyone can help run through that negative data mode data. Thanks!

  • Bob Greenyer

    I have added another video that discussed how you use the MALDI in positive (for metals) and negative (for oxides).

    I have not analysed any of the negative modes, so there is an opportunity with mMass to do things like look for metal oxide signatures using the negative data sets. This might help clarify some finding.

    Would really appreciate if anyone can help run through that negative data mode data. Thanks!

  • Gerard McEk

    Usually the software of these MS’s will give the most likely elements or molecules involved. The shown results should be taken seriously.
    Nevertheless, Holmium is not an element that you will find often and the MS may have got that wrong, because they may have never measured that with these particular MS-types.
    I would have liked to see the same analysis before the preparation, because the nickel foil could have been contaminated.

    • Bob Greenyer

      The nickel foil was produced from lab grade Nickel Sulphate in de-ionised water, electro-deposited by resonant 200V DC 300kHz plasma from and to SS304 plate electrodes.

  • Gerard McEk

    Usually the software of these MS’s will give the most likely elements or molecules involved. The shown results should be taken seriously.
    Nevertheless, Holmium is not an element that you will find often and the MS may have got that wrong, because they may have never measured that with these particular MS-types.
    I would have liked to see the same analysis before the preparation, because the nickel foil could have been contaminated.

    • Bob Greenyer

      The nickel foil was produced from lab grade Nickel Sulphate in de-ionised water, electro-deposited by resonant 200V DC 300kHz plasma from and to SS304 plate electrodes.

  • Bob Greenyer

    We all were exhausted, I went to the UK to visit family for a few days, Brian and Ryan had to get back and catch up with their day jobs and family responsibilities (try packing 2 months of intensive development around your day job) and Alan and I went to the conference in Asti, where I was presenting and had to research and prepare a presentation.

    I got back and started the back log of analysis.

    I will touch base in the coming days with me356 and see if he has had time to process a batch of fuel and if that then produced a different result other than the extremely clearly demonstrated result we obtained whilst there.

    me356 did not play his best hand, it baffles me the choices he made between january and the test – he has our equipment with him to see if his other reactors perform better. Our apparatus performed far better than expected as our first evaluation of a steam system.

    Other than that I have about a weeks work doing the MFMP accounts for the UK tax authorities, I want to arrange some SEM/EDX on samples from me356, get the radiographic plates developed and sort visas and logistics for India – and that is just a small fraction on my roster.

    Steemit is far easier to post to, allows in-line comments – including embedded YT vids and drag and drop images – is spam free and those that joined in March have around $70 even if they did nothing! It is stamped into the block chain, indexed by google and cannot be sensored – also no spam, and responsive, so accessible from anywhere.

    • Omega Z

      So whats the hold up.
      You act like your busy and have a life outside of this work. Oh My. lol

      • Bob Greenyer

        This is not including family commitments and trying to earn a living

    • Andre Blum

      @bobgreenyer:disqus I am quite familiar with blockchain technology, have read and deeply understand the bitcoin whitepaper by satoshi, have invested in several cryptocurrencies and am (as you know) a software developer with 30 years experience. Still, every time I charge up to try to understand steemit and the mechanisms behind it even to just the level of being able to use it effectively, I give up out of a feeling of (needless) complexity. Without meaning to sound superior or anything, I would like to ask: if /even I/ don’t understand it, who can?

      • Bob Greenyer

        What I understand is that it allows free access to articles without annoying pop-ups/overlays (for non-members) and adverts (for members) – when compared to FaceBook.

        I understand that it has nice and easy formatting, drag and drop and is black on White (which people seam to like) and eSteem for mobiles also has a night mode.

        It allows threaded discourse and users can format their comments with all the power of the original post (table, highlighting, titles, images, photos)

        It requires no server to be paid for.

        Only the author of content can edit or delete it.

        Oh, and people can, apparently, withdraw cash to their own account if they earn some. Regardless of this I do not know of a platform that offers all of the above.

    • Steve H

      Bob – for the record.
      Your tenacity and dedication in trying to nail this technology is hugely appreciated. That obviously goes for your colleagues at MFMP.
      I assume there are others who feel the same way. We are not the most vocal people however.

      • Andre Blum

        Couldn’t agree more!
        and BTW I hold the same sentiment for me356, who got to endure a lot of negative comments that made me feel slightly ashamed for this community.

        • Bob Greenyer

          me356s’ willingness to be tested openly should be held up as a standard of excellence for the community – had certain others done the same when offered (in 2012) we may already have a proven technology on the table – or not.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thanks, it is always uncomfortable when the truth is not as we would wish. The MFMP was not set up to make a truth but to establish it, whatever that may be – sometimes people, including claimants can get upset when what is thought was real turns out not to be, however, there is more than enough in the spread of the projects experience to be encouraging.

        Apparent transmutation is one of those things, if we cannot explain it away then we must consider that there be something more going on.

        In my coming presentations I hope you put out some more radical thinking for consideration.

    • Anon2012_2014

      Bob,

      Happy Father’s Day!

      -Anon12/14

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thanks! Off out with the kids, some bubbles and a ball.

  • Bob Greenyer

    About sums it up if we are starting from AURA. Perhaps me356 will have got a reactor/fuel combo into a more favourable state.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I have exchanged emails with Suhas today and we have agreed that he send me some of his starting materials, namely nickel sulphate (from which the foil is produced) and samples of his starting Nickel and Titanium powder.

    Note, when we did EDX, we found Pb on 2 different samples of part-processed fuel.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I have exchanged emails with Suhas today and we have agreed that he send me some of his starting materials, namely nickel sulphate (from which the foil is produced) and samples of his starting Nickel and Titanium powder.

    Note, when we did EDX, we found Pb on 2 different samples of part-processed fuel (two different batches).

  • AdrianAshfield

    Bob Greenyer,
    Did me356 ever get back to you about what the problem was or if he now has the new reactor working?

    • Bob Greenyer

      He said the lack of the performance was down to a number of things, leak, TC placement by contract manufacturer leading to heater failure, but most of all, not able to process fuel long enough.

      Given that Piantelli says his processing took many weeks and Suhas’ 200 hours, perhaps this is a real factor. I will touch base with him and see if he has made any progress on this.

  • AdrianAshfield

    Bob Greenyer,
    Did me356 ever get back to you about what the problem was or if he now has the new reactor working?

    • Bob Greenyer

      He said the lack of the performance was down to a number of things, leak, TC placement by contract manufacturer leading to heater failure, but most of all, not able to process fuel long enough.

      Given that Piantelli says his processing took many weeks and Suhas’ 200 hours, perhaps this is a real factor. I will touch base with him and see if he has made any progress on this.

  • Jas

    Bob, I have a question: How is Suhas planning on getting his device onto the market? Is the MFMP’s involvement necessary for him to move forward? Has he done any demonstrations for government or industry? Has he sought funding from investors?

    • John Littlemist

      One more:
      When is MFMP going to India to validate Suhas’ reactor?

  • Jas

    Bob, I have a question: How is Suhas planning on getting his device onto the market? Is the MFMP’s involvement necessary for him to move forward? Has he done any demonstrations for government or industry? Has he sought funding from investors?

    • John Littlemist

      One more:
      When is MFMP going to India to validate Suhas’ reactor?

  • cashmemorz

    I have seen this in many chemical bonds where the properties of which are defines by the geometry of how constituent atoms form the resulting molecule.
    Geometric shapes seem to be at bottom of physics phenomena.

    See minute 31-34in:
    http://webcast.massey.ac.nz/Mediasite/Play/8ef7e03e26fc458b8eb7f351738f26811d

    It is the shape of the electron that determines what kind of gravity is created by the electron.
    Flat disk = no gravity

    Positive sphere = positive gravity

    Negative sphere = negative gravity

    Now to reinterpret those last three shapes with regard to 3-D space. How does each shape affect or transform space to attain the three varieties of gravity. Is it tensor calculus or something much simpler.
    The rotating, in effect, great circle paths of the constituent infinitesimal charge points cause inertia of the electron as a whole. This inertia is then the mass property as Randell Mills has calculated using Maxwellian electrodynamic formulas with Einsteins General Relativity formulas under lorentzian transform influence. So, shortening of space towards the negative sphere causes negative gravity. Space is inherently lengthened near negative electron spheres which is the negative gravity that is used to drive Dr. Mills antigravity device. Geomertry at work in antigravity.

  • cashmemorz

    I have seen this in many chemical bonds where the properties of which are defined by the geometry of how constituent atoms form the resulting molecule
    Geometric shapes seem to be at bottom of physics phenomena

    See minute 31-34in:
    http://webcast.massey.ac.nz/Mediasite/Play/8ef7e03e26fc458b8eb7f351738f26811d

    It is the shape of the electron that determines what kind of gravity is created by the electron.
    Flat disk = no gravity

    Positive sphere = positive gravity

    Negative sphere = negative gravity

    Now to reinterpret those last three shapes with regard to space. How does each shape affect or transform space to attain the three varieties of gravity. Is it tensor calculas or something much simpler.
    The rotating, in effect, great circle paths of the constituent infinitesimal charge points cause inertia of the electron as a whole. This inertia is then the mass property as Randell Mills has calculated using Maxwellian electrodynamic formulas with Einsteins General Relativity formulas under lorentzian transform influence. So, shortening of space towards the negative sphere causes negative gravity. Because Lorentz transform of near light speed of object makes object shorter or space longer. This is because normal objects contain normally positively spherical electrons. Objects containing negatively spherical electrons will have less inertia and thereby be more easily changed in vector. ie change speed and direction more easily using the same energy input for normally spherical electron content of same massive object. Thereby space is inherently lengthened for positively spherical electron containing matter that is moving close to light speed, C. Space, in the same case, is inherently shortened near negative electron spheres which is the negative gravity that is used to drive Dr. Mills antigravity device. Geomertry at work in anti-gravity.

    Next on the agenda, how this all influences LENR

  • Bob Greenyer
  • Bob Greenyer
  • Bob Greenyer
  • Bob Greenyer
  • Bob Greenyer
    • Bob Greenyer

      Following conversations with Suhas, I have updated the blog post with precise components of the fuel and ultrasonic processing times.

      https://steemit.com/life/@mfmp/ecco-preliminary-testing-part-one

      • Stephen

        I’m not sure if I missed it but is the fuel sample taken from before or after the grading process?

        I suppose it is from after.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I have updated the blog.

          In all cases, the fuel and ash have never been graded in these batches.

          This is because the grader was out on loan/evaluation to a party in another industry