What’s Next for the E-Cat? (Final Name: “E-Cat QX”, Presentation ‘Within October’)

UPDATE: Not that it makes any difference to the technology, but today Andrea Rossi posted this today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:

Andrea Rossi
July 11, 2017 at 6:10 AM
JPR:
Also today the E-Cat QX is in good standing. By the way: this is the final name: “E-Cat QX”
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I guess that Rossi does not want to get away from the E-Cat name, for which he has a trademark, and this seems to confirm that this is not something brand new, but simply a development, or variant of the E-Cat technology he has been working on for many years now. I later put a question on the JONP about the reason for the name, and Rossi responded:

Andrea Rossi
July 11, 2017 at 9:26 AM
Frank Acland:
Sure. Because “E-Cat” is a strong trade mark, already registered in America and Europe and because I consider the QuarkX an evolution of the E-Cat.
“QuarkX” has been used just as the name of the project: “quark” because ir is very small and fundamental and “X” because it had not a name, so we put a variable.
Now we decided it is our lead product and it will be the E-Cat, while QX will indicate the type of E-Cat.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Another Q&A on the JONP was about the planned presentation of the QuarkX:

“Congratulations to the concilliation, very positive. You said that you should delay the demonstration of E-cat QX to after the trial, probably to september. Is this still the plan?”

Andrea Rossi
July 11, 2017 at 9:20 AM
Nils Fryklund:
Thank you for your kind words.
Yes, the E-Cat QX will be presented within the end of October.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

**********************************************************************************

As we move into the second half of 2017, and the court case begins to diminish as we look into the rear view mirror, I start thinking about what is coming next in the E-Cat story. Andrea Rossi has said that he is now back in the lab full time, working with the QuarkX, and it sounds like, as is typical, he’s working on improving and refining his product. Hear are some Q&As from yesterday on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:

Frank Acland
July 8, 2017 at 1:22 PM
Dear Andrea,

A few questions, if you don’t mind:

1. What needs to be accomplished before you can bring you QuarkX to market?
2. When do you expect to start production of QuarkX devices for customers?
3. Are you currently working with outside partners in the development of the QuarkX?
4. Will there still be a joint statement released from both parties in the litgation regarding general terms of the settlement?

Andrea Rossi
July 8, 2017 at 2:53 PM
Frank Acland:
1- more R&D
2- possibly this year for industrial plants. Probably next year. For non industrial I do not know, because the certification issue does not depend on us, while for the industrial applications we already have the certifications
3- no
4- my attorneys told me so
Warm Regards,
A.R.

***********************************************************************************

Andrea Rossi
July 8, 2017 at 2:55 PM
JPR:
After the tests of today with my QuarkX I was probably the happiest man in the world.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Frank Acland
July 8, 2017 at 5:54 PM
Dear Andrea,

Can you tell us something about why you are so happy with the QuarkX today?

Andrea Rossi
July 8, 2017 at 9:13 PM
Frank Acland:
Today I invented a new particular that makes the E-Cat QuarkX simpler: first day full time with my toy since a long, long time with the brain focused on the litigation.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Andrea Rossi
July 8, 2017 at 9:23 PM
Dr Joseph Fine:
I was in good mood because I won for the first time after 35 years a tennis match with my wife: 7-5 ( one only set: after one set, when they are more tired than me, they are usually buried ).
Warm Regards,
A.R.
P.S.
I have also strongly simplified the E-Cat Qx making it much easier to make and it worked very well

So it sounds like typical Rossi, lots of work, lots of modifications of the E-Cat, and one wonders when the lab work will end and he moves into the manufacturing stage. Rossi has said that he intends to hold a presentation event for the QuarkX this year, but as far as I know no date for that has been set.

It’s interesting that he says that he is not working with any external partner now. I doubt that any serious entity would want to have gotten involved during the period of litigation, and we still don’t know anything about any possible continuing relationship with Industrial Heat that was part of the settlement. We also don’t know anything about the level of funding that Rossi has available to move into the commercialization phase, but certainly starting any kind of production level is going to take considerable amounts of money.

  • f sedei

    A happy Andrea Rossi is a good thing….for all of us. Carry on, Andrea.

  • Zephir

    If A. Rossi is so obsessed with X-Quark, he could drop the already non-perspective low-temperature E-Cat technology into a public domain. The scientific and business public needs some convincing evidence, which could be replicated. It would increase the credit (and price) of Rossi in another areas. The risk of Darden-Rossi recent intellectual trust is the opposite outcome.

    • Frank Acland

      I think the QuarkX is still an E-Cat, and Rossi won’t release anything he doesn’t have to that he thinks might help competitors.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Frank,

        Totally agree.

      • Zephir

        I know he won’t release anything – but it’s strategy, which mirrors censorship of free energy with governement and fossil fuel lobby – with the same result. This greedy strategy has been proven completely unsuccessful many times – all inventors of free energy who kept their secret died without having any profit from their knowledge.

        It’s as easy as it is.

        • Vinney

          Rossi wants all the credit for this invention, he has worked hard for it and deserves it. Of course he is holding back vital details in all his patents. You would have to study all of them to be able to reproduce close to a working reactor.
          He is not stupid or an ‘idiot’.

    • Dr. Mike

      Rossi has been issued a patent on the low temperature e-cat, therefore it is in the public domain. Per patent law the disclosure in the patent needs to be sufficient that one “who is skilled in the art” can replicate the invention. Is his disclosure sufficient? It needs to be if Rossi ever gets into a legal battle over patent rights. Anyone can replicate Rossi’s patented e-cat for their private use, however, the patent grants Rossi the rights to all commercial use of the low temperature e-cat.that he has patented.

  • US_Citizen71

    Hopefully what is next is a bullet proof demonstration of a E-Cat showing a COP much greater than 1 before the end of the year. A tea kettle heated to boil by the input of 2 or 3 9V batteries would be something I would love to see.

  • GiveADogABone

    I would like to see a QuarkX air heater replace the combustion chamber in a Bladon Jets 12kW electricity generator. A demonstration and practical application of direct electricity generation via the Carnot cycle in a gas turbine.

    http://www.bladonjets.com/technology/gas-turbines/
    Bladon Jets micro gas turbines are miniaturised jet engines which will provide a new generation of green and efficient power units.

  • During the last year it seems to me that many people commenting have started to have increased doubts about Rossi, tending to consider him a fraudster, clearly influenced by IH supportive claims in various forums–claims that several times have been proven to be very weak or directly wrong. I have some understanding for people having doubts but I have also been amazed at how easy it has been to use weak claims to move people. I’m now curious to see if there will be a bounce-back in attitude. Let’s see when the lawyers’ statement arrive.

    • Martin Lund

      I agree. I consider myself a healthy skeptic but even after all these years I’m still optimistic that Rossi’s technology might be true but my confidence has certainly decreased and I’m still open to the possibility of everything being one big elaborate scam. In the end it all comes down to the validity of the core technology that Rossi has been safeguarding single handedly from the very start.

      Also, I have sympathy with Rossi’s product strategy but I feel we are closing in on the point where Rossi needs to lift the curtain and demonstrate to the world the potential of his technology.

      • GiveADogABone

        Mats, E48 and myself have endorsed the ERV report since the trial halted and who else? There is something irrational going on here.

        The CoP calculation in the ERV report depends on water flow rate, specific enthalpy change and electrical power in. Would any of the ‘Rossi is a scammer’ brigade like to explain(that means reasoned argument) which parameter of the three is wrong?

        Measured water flow rate in the test was about 35,000kg/day,
        specific enthalpy change was taken as 2257 kJ/kG # just the latent heat of vapourization of water at 0bar gauge, and
        the electrical power was in the 10-15kW range.

        The IH lawyer passed to the jury a lie, that was manufactured by Smith, about the flow rate and collapsed the trial;
        the specific enthalpy change of water is a constant that can be looked up in an instant’ and
        Murray admitted that he had no evidence of manipulation of the electrical readings.

        Let’s see some equivalent numbers from the ‘Rossi is a scammer’ brigade. Would you like to submit your numbers first?

        • Toussaint françois

          Nicely said !

        • Martin Lund

          I think you misunderstood my point. I’m saying I still have confidence in Rossi but as time passes without show my confidence decreases. I didn’t call out Rossi as a scammer I simply pointed out it is still a possibility.

          I have no more patience for indirect evidence or discussion thereof – what we need next is a public demonstration. I think many feel the same.

          • GiveADogABone

            If it is possible, what are the associated numbers?

          • Martin Lund

            You totally miss my point and I’m not going to throw you a bone.

          • GiveADogABone

            No bones to throw?

          • pelgrim108

            I agree with Dott. Rossi that putting the E-Cat on the market is the only
            way to convince everybody of its reality. A scam is still a possibility, but I think that possibility is very small. I dont think anyone can exclude this possibility entirely.

        • Bruce__H

          Now that we have almost all the documents that will ever be made public on this affair it is a good time to try and figure out what is solid and what is not. There seem to be many sets of measurements floating around … can we figure out what they are, where they are, and how trustworthy they are? There seems to be a huge number of measurements taken by possibly hundreds of instruments installed by Fabiani, there are ones recorded by Penon’s instruments and then periodically downloaded by him, and there are measurements recorded manually by Rossi.

          I think that Rossi’s manual measurements should be discounted unless supported by other data sets. The Fabiani data were attacked by Smith because during power outages they didn’t act the way you would expect them to act. Does that make them untrustworthy too? What about the Penon data? I’m unsure if they ever came out. Did they?

      • clovis ray

        When he’s ready and not until.

    • sam

      What are the Lawyers statement?

    • Rene

      Mats, I do not trust Rossi’s statements anymore and the IH mess is the least of the events that have led me to this judgement. It has been the totality of what he has done since 2011. He’s demonstrated he is skilled at manipulation, deflection, and kicking the can down the road. Whether his e-cat, quarkX, (add new marketing ploy name here) device works cannot be determined, and I’m sure he wants it that way. The only recourse in such manipulation is to walk away from it. He’s said it before that the market will prove his toys, so yes, let’s do that. He should be ignored until he puts out something anyone can test or use. Until then he does not deserve the column-inches devoted to his propaganda.
      Is the LENR phenomena real? Maybe.

    • Brent Buckner

      One small element of my increased doubts about Rossi: that you reported that the 1MW test was “controlled by a major independent third party certification institute” (c.f. https://animpossibleinvention.com/2016/02/18/historic-event-one-year-1-megawatt-e-cat-trial-completed/ ). I’m left with the impression that you took the word of a source who lied to you.

    • Dr. Mike

      Mats,
      How much of the pretrial deposition and motion evidence from the lawsuit have you reviewed? None of IH ‘s claims are needed to form an opinion of Rossi’s honesty. Rossi’s e-mails to IH and others are sufficient for anyone to form an opinion on Rossi’s character. I don’t see how the lawyers statement will change anyone’s opinion of Rossi. However, there doesn’t have to be a correlation between what people think of Rossi’s character and whether his technology will eventually be proven to work well enough to be commercialized.
      Dr. Mike

      • Engineer48

        Hi Mike,

        Funny how Hydrofusion is still there.

        Just maybe those emails to IH were fluff to close the deal?
        Ever closed a really big deal?

        And in regard to character, imagine Rossi arriving Cherokee, entering the board room to sign the license agreement with Cherokee, then Darden doing a last minute switcheroo, telling Rossi he now had to sign the agreement with IH, that had no money and was only formed 2 weeks before the signing event.

        Had I been Rossi, I would have walked out as this should have told him of the character of the folks he would be working with.

        Maybe you think the at signing switcheroo was a legit business move on the part of Darden? I can tell you the one time it happened to me and I did what Rossi did and signed, well I lived to regret signing the agreement.

        • Monty

          What you call switcheroo is a legit business move. Cherokee / Darden make own companies for every business venture they do so the liabilities of one company dont drag down the rest of the portfolio of cherokee. It’s normal is my take on this. Maybe it wasn’t communicated well to Rossi.

          • US_Citizen71

            Sure it is legit business practice, but a legitimate business person would inform the other party before signing day. The way it was handled is what shifty untrustworthy people do. Rossi should have run the other way.

        • Dr. Mike

          E48,
          I’ll put the same question to you that I put to Mats: How much of the pretrial deposition and motion evidence have you reviewed? If the “Hydrofusion” e-mail was the only indication of Rossi’s deceptive practices, I might agree with you that it could have been fluff to close the deal. There is just too much other evidence in the court documents that support a general pattern of deception on Rossi’s part. This pattern is what would have been presented to the jury had a settlement not been reached. As far as the formation of IH, I agree with Monty’s comment below.
          Dr. Mike

          • Omega Z

            “Hydrofusion” is still a licensee of Leonardo and possible even a shareholder in Leonardo inc.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Mike,

            Wonder how, if you were Rossi, you would have liked the Close manoeuvre IH pulled on Rossi?

            It was Darden venting testosterone all over the floor and making sure Rossi knew who was in control.

            Interesting that when Darden walked from the court he said Rossi was a “Smart Guy”.

            Seems the pissing match was over and Rossi won.

      • I have seen enough of the pretrial deposition and I don’t agree. Try to picture yourself with a potentially world-changing technology in your hands, and a situation where there’s a lot of resistance from different actors while your main licensee, with rights in large parts of the world, is actively trying to stop you from meeting the terms of the license agreement. In such a situation I would expect anyone to try maneuvres similar to those Rossi has performed, including faking a customer, writing emails with more or less right-out lies etc. I’m not at all surprised Rossi went that way, and I think he had good reasons to do so. However, I still want more public data showing the validity of the E-Cat technology.

        • Monty

          seems like we will get something to think about by the end of october:

          Nils Fryklund
          July 11, 2017 at 8:15 AM
          Dear Andrea!
          Congratulations to the concilliation, very positive. You said that you should delay the demonstration of E-cat QX to after the trial, probably to september. Is this still the plan?
          I am very curiose of how the world will react. I have been following you on the blog for ages and I can see that you are following the law of nature all the time, therefore I have always understood that E-cat is genuin.
          Best regards
          Nils Fryklund

          Andrea Rossi
          July 11, 2017 at 9:20 AM
          Nils Fryklund:
          Thank you for your kind words.
          Yes, the E-Cat QX will be presented within the end of October.
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.

    • The lawyers’ statements won’t change anything.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Kevmo,

        If the lawyers announce the IH expert advisers got it wrong and they are continuing to support Rossi IP, well it will change a lot.

        • I would put that likelihood at about 1%. How about you?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Kevmo,

            My analysis of all the photographic and test data supports the 1MW plant did work as indicated and that there was the claimed upper story heat exchanger.

            IH could make a very major business mistake to walk away from the Rossi IP.

            They can always throw a few folks under the bus and claim their “Experts” provided them faulty data, which is clear they did, that IH management used to make incorrect decisions plus a few people on LF made non authorised claims and statements about the tests and about Rossi.

            Business is business.

          • That doesn’t quite answer the question… It is like the Wright brothers amiably agreeing to become partners with Curtiss.

      • It might be. Depending on the contents of the settlement you could get an idea of how strong both parties evidence was, i.e. regarding IH’s claims that Rossi participated in a conspiracy having produced false data. If this was true, it shouldn’t have been difficult to provide proof for this, whereas it should have been difficult for Rossi to prove the opposite, and the settlement should reflect this.

    • help_lenr

      I guess that some of the negative posts were by people paid by IH. Sort of negative propaganda.

  • BillH

    There’s a 1MW plant sitting in a facility in Doral, there’s a report that says it can produce much more power than it consumes. I’m sure IH would sell it to you for a very reasonable price, any takers? Surely it’s a no-brainer, you’ll make a fortune……anyone, anyone?

    • GiveADogABone

      Have you factored in the cost of maintainance and watchkeeping?

      • Buck

        And the fact you would need Rossi to agree to providing the maintenance and watchkeeping? At this point, he is looking to focus solely upon the QuarkX. The Doral E-Cat is a discontinued version . . . leaving the door open to Rossi choosing to drop any support for the Doral E-Cat.

        • GiveADogABone

          Perhaps BillH would publish his business plan and risk assessment?

          • BillH

            But I’m not one of the people that has absolute trust in Penon’s Reports.

        • BillH

          A very convenient obsolescence, considering any new product is years away from market.

          • Buck

            Your doubt is understandable . . . however, the notion that Rossi was intentional in his discovery of the then unknown steps to take to go from E-Cat to QuarkX for the nefarious ends you suggest is paranoid.

            Your supposition ignores Rossi’s publicly stated opinion that he considered the QuarkX as an extension of the E-Cat technology and was subject/included in the IH License Agreement. It was IH’s until IH chose to not pay the $89M.

          • BillH

            I never ignored it because I never saw that statement! I did however just assume it would be part of the LA, AR was after all IH’s “Chief Scientist”. So it was kind of obvious without any statement.

      • clovis ray

        There should be little to no main tenancy, and all commercial plants has people on sight 24/7.wasn’t there a plackerd attached .

    • Engineer48

      Hi Bill,

      I have offered to buy a few of the junk, don’t work, can’t work, 20kW box like Blue ECat reactors, complete with their control boxes.

      • BillH

        To whom did you make the offers, and what was their responses?

    • Brokeeper

      It’s reserved as a museum piece.

      • clovis ray

        I agree, it will be a shame if we lose this beautiful machine. But if I/h does own it would they sell it.
        Maybe if God willing we can save it for prosperity. Hope,

  • GiveADogABone

    Not really. The E-cat was designed to produce steam. Where you are trying to move heat around a factory, hot water is a pain. It does not carry much energy(30*4.12=123.6 cf 2257 for steam), needs big pipes and goes cold on the journey.

  • Rene

    Again that was deceptive tactics on Rossi’s (or his lawyers) part to separate the concept in case the trial went against them. That behind them, he’s rejoined the two to maximize his potential IP domain.

    • Omega Z

      No. People who post questions to Rossi distinguish the Quark as separate from the E-cat. When asked, Rossi has always stated they are of the same technology covered by the same patents.

  • Andrzej Pawlowski

    It’s nice to see some positive progress in the long A.R developments. A few years ago I was so positive and supportive for his work so I wanted to work for LARN on full time employment but by reading his stories about different LERN type problems I have to give up hope of seeing his invention working in my boiler room or even in the industrial applications. I am convinced that AR’s units are working with good COP but the big crooks who invested in gas and oil are willing to pay a few millions via IH to keep the cheap energy sources away from the energy market. If he managed to break this barrier and supply me the 20 units which I pre-ordered a few years ago, I would be happy to install and maintain all of them. I hope that my life will be long enough to see this happen.

  • So glad to see the trial is over and Rossi is back in the lab making further improvements to the technology. I’m fairly sure he has something commercializable and I’m encouraged that he’s planning on publicly demonstrating the QuarkX this year.

    The trial bruhaha, settlement and discussion here over the past year or two has made me more confident that there is something there there. Rossi is not perfect by any means but I think IH was far worse in the bad behaviour department.

    Many people here did a bang up job of countering the anti Rossi BS. I would like to commend Engineer48 in particular for his clear analysis, command of the facts and his willingness to repeat things often – it was quite the game of wack-a-mole. Zombie lies are a thing. Thank you sir.

    For those here that are complaining about the slow pace of product development, try being an EEStor investor and you’ll be relatively happy with Rossi’s timelines. LOL 10+ years and counting.

    Seriously though… I “know” EEStor and Rossi will likely prevail and probably this year… so buck up people! The wait won’t last forever. Closure (and likely vindication) will come eventually.

  • FC

    I am also really happy to learn about the settlement.

    About Rossi’s statement: “Today I invented a new particular that makes the E-Cat QuarkX simpler”. I only hope that doesn’t mean that the 5 sigma process needs to start anew.

  • kenko1

    I would speculate that nothing can or will be done until the legal sharks can agree on a joint statement. That should eat up 2-3 years. Delay demos, due to some innocuous, trivial legalese that won’t mean much. In the mean time, there will be astounding new discoveries that make QuarkX’s as obsolete as Hot-cats. Even though patents have been filed weekly, if not daily, for several years now, none have/will be granted except for one. And no one has be able to replicate it.(a red-herring?) We should see LENR devices beginning in 2030-2045.

    • Omega Z

      Sooo, all said and done, less then half the timeline of Hot Fusion.

  • sam
    • Bob Greenyer

      I wish him well.

  • Science progresses one funeral at a time ~Max Planck

    • Engineer48

      Hi Kevmo,

      All that is missing is the name of the individual or individuals at MIT who in 1989 committed scientific fraud and altered the P&F replication data from showing a positive result to showing a null result.

      If we knew who they are, then we would know when LENR science can progress as they pass on.

      • We may never know who they were, but we know who it was that didn’t retract the altered report after it was pointed out. (Not that I know, but I’ll bet Jed knows.)

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        There still are probably plenty of names, which could be put on a board, who have actively stifled any discussion about “cold fusion” for the last 25 years. Let alone a possible application of the experiments.
        If one reads its history, there is more than a name who signed articles or denigrated even the possibility of an approach to LENR as ‘pathological science’ in many interviews.

      • clovis ray

        E48 Oh we know who they are.

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    The problem with buying coal burning power plants for Dr Rossi probably might be a reminiscence with Petroldragon? He’s been there, took the ride, bought the T shirt….

  • Chapman

    Mule, that’s ONE…

  • Stephen

    I’m glad the case was resolved and finally things can move on to what is important. like many of us I guess on all sides of the case I felt overwhelmed and totally worn out with the cloud of dispondancy that was surrounding the case. I can only begin to imagine how those directly involved felt then and how relieved they must feel now that they can move on.

    I really think it’s time to move on positively on all sides. Not just for those involved but also for ourselves. The technology itself is more important the potential it can bring to solve some of the worlds biggest problems is what we should be thinking about now. We should allow and help those who can achieve that to do so.

    I’m very curious about the eventual agreement. Was it just a resolution or some kind of bridge? Faced with an abyss people can make some surprising decisions.

    For what it’s worth I would say. Let’s give everyone a chance to move forward, to breath a little to put down their arms and see what happens.

  • Chapman

    I know I am going to anger some people here, and I will likely get yelled at and suffer a string of abusive rebukes, but I think we need to take a moment to think about the big picture, the personal motivations and character of the persons involved, and the reality of the limitations of “real life”.

    Rossi was victorious in the case ONLY in the sense that he maintained control. We do not know the terms. NDA. But we DO know that they were HIS terms. Do you follow? That is enough for me! All that matters is that Rossi is still driving the bus…

    Now, I still see a lot of nice folks around here stuck on the “next, he must perform a public demonstration”, or “he now needs to publish yada-yada-yada” or, my favorite, any comment involving the terms “third party” and “independent verification”. Well, I love you all, and I care deeply about your mental health and general state of well being, so I am compelled to urge you not to hold your breath or put off vacation plans contingent on any expectation along those lines.

    I do not know WHAT Rossi will do next. But I do know, without any doubt, that it will be what HE wants, needs, and sees as instrumental in moving him to the next level within his plan.

    He is not a researcher seeking public funds, and has no need to satisfy the general public’s curiosity, OR to alleviate the doubts of naysayers, any more than he needs to take time to prove to PETA that no hamsters are harmed during his experiments. For your OWN sakes, you all need to accept the fact that we are simply spectators enjoying a free view of the game! We are a bunch of kids watching the action through a gap in the outfield fence, and our opinions and demands simply have no bearing on Rossi’s progress.

    He is ALSO not an academic scientist driven to seek the approval and support of the mainstream physics world. Publication and Peer Review matter only in so far as he determines that he needs them to make the PATENT process progress smoothly.

    I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that so many people think he must do ANYTHING!!!

    Contrary to so much of the speculation and dreaming, we are still only at the starting gate. This is going to take a long time. Everybody needs to take a deep breath. Relax.

    We MIGHT get to see a demonstration of the Quark-X this year IF Rossi is at a point that he wants to pump up a little public awareness for some reason, but I am not counting on it. Why? Because the one thing WE (that is – every person on the planet who is NOT Rossi) have proven is that nothing will suffice! No matter what he does, no matter what demonstration he presents, no matter the hoops through which he jumps, there are still going to be jerkwads who pick it apart and declare it to be flawed and incomplete and then DEMAND some alternative proof. Well, surprise! Rossi just does not care what you think.

    When Rossi has something to share, he will share… if it suits him.

    We just have to hope and pray that he feels the need to “Brag” a little, because that would be his ONLY motivation for any public display.

    • Toussaint françois

      Good analysis !

      • Toussaint françois

        And the hole in the fence is called Journal of Nuclear Physics .

    • Dr. Mike

      It is not obvious that Rossi was able to set the terms of the settlement. If Rossi and IH are still partners as a term of the settlement, it’s likely that one of the first tasks that will be imposed on Rossi is to teach IH how to make working devices as was required by the original contract (following the payment of the $10M).
      A demonstration of the QuarkX will be tied closely to the requirements for the patent process. Since Rossi claims that he just made an improvement in the QuarkX, this improvement will have to be included in the patent application before any public demonstration of the device is conducted. If IH and Rossi are still partners, I hope IH will hire engineers to begin an immediate independent evaluation of the QuarkX.

      • Thomas Kaminski

        The patent process says that the patent covers ideas that one who is “skilled in the art” can replicate. Did it ever occur that one could not duplicate the patent results because they were not “skilled in the art”? Take, for example, the F&P results which the geniuses at two prestigious universities could not duplicate, but many others have since duplicated.

        I agree with you that is is not obvious that Rossi was able to set the terms of the settlement. Nor was it obvious that IH could. I suspect that Rossi did get some of what he wanted, however. Likely Darden and IH did not get what they wanted, but took path most likely to meet their financial goals.

        • Dr. Mike

          It’s up to the patent examiner to judge if the patent application has sufficient disclosure. However, even if a patent is granted, it can still be challenged by a second party if that party determines that the original patent application left out key information. Pons and Fleischmann were not certain themselves what was necessary to duplicate their own results so it’s really no surprise that MIT and Cal Tech couldn’t duplicate their results. On the other hand I assume Rossi does know what it takes to duplicate his results, but I’m not sure if his patent application fully disclosed this knowledge.
          I agree that Darden’s and IH’s primary concern would have been their financial goals.

      • Chapman

        Oh contraire, mon frere…

        As happens in any abusive relationship, the person being mistreated MUST, at some point, draw the line in the sand and say “enough is enough!”.

        Rossi recognized that IH was taking advantage of him and refusing to continue forward in good faith on their agreements, and he put on the brakes and forced them to publicly account for their misconduct.

        Rossi was not after cash. Rossi needed to re-establish control. ROSSI filed the suit, and the settlement was exactly what HE determined was productive, effective, and satisfactory. I do not need the details to know this. It is self evident. HE got what HE needed, otherwise they would still be in court.

        In comparison, I would refer you to Hockey-Stick-Graph-Boy, who is going to be on his way to jail. You see, when a newspaper called his bluff and published a rebuke of his bad science HE decided to file a defamation and Libel suit. Only problem was that doing so meant exposing his original research material to pre-trial discovery. When it became obvious that the judge was going to force that disclosure he quickly retracted his claim and sought to drop his suit, but the judge ordered that as part of the agreement to cancel the suit he STILL had to provide the accused with the research material for future reference sake.

        He has refused, and has repeatedly failed to follow through on the court order. He is now facing contempt of court charges and the judge is at a point where there is no choice but to take punitive action. Jail time – until the material is turned over…

        That is what happens when a dipstick files suit on shaky grounds.

        Rossi, on the other hand, filed suit on IH, and IH spent all their time trying to discredit him before a jury was ever seated, but their kung-fu was weak, and they entered court facing a growing realization that they were about to be publically crucified. Rossi did not need a specific cash settlement, or a meaningless public apology. He needed IH to know NOT to mess around and think he could be stonewalled, mistreated, or manipulated. THAT is why he won the day. Because ROSSI is firmly in control, and Darden was reminded that he is/was just a local franchisee along for the ride in the back seat. IH was not acting as a VC, investing in, and securing control over, Rossi’s work. They were not buying IP. They were just purchasing a simple regional license, and had no more legal control or rights than that implies.

        • In comparison, I would refer you to Hockey-Stick-Graph-Boy, who is going to be on his way to jail.
          ***Who is that?

          • Chapman

            Michael Mann. He is in legal hot water for refusing to turn over the original data used to create the famous hockey stick chart that showed global warming trends. It appears he seriously altered the data, and messaged the numbers to create the graph that most AGW arguments hold as key proof of the theory.

            This is not me bashing the theory, just reporting the events. As I said earlier, he started a fight and then tried to back down, but the judge would not let him. If he does not turn over the original research materials he used to create his chart and claims, then he will go to jail for contempt of court. It is not that he is going to jail for scientific fraud, simply that he refuses to comply with the judge and produce the raw data.

          • GiveADogABone

            http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/07/05/fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/
            Report: Fatal Courtroom Act Ruins Michael ‘Hockey Stick’ Mann – ‘Commits contempt of court’

          • no, it’s made up.

        • Dr. Mike

          On what are you basing your statement that Rossi was mistreated? In my comments to Frank’s previous post, I listed a total of 8-10 instances where IH was either deceived by Rossi or Rossi made comments in e-mails that showed he did not understand the contract that he signed. Do you believe Rossi has the right to breach the contract that he signed just because he did not understand the terms? Does Rossi have the right to nullify the contract through deceptive actions as he admitted he did with Hydrofusion? (See court document #279-12.)

          • Chapman

            Just 8 or 10?

            That’s the best you can do?

            I can list 89,000,000 instances which demonstrate IH attempting to cheat Rossi!!!

          • Dr. Mike

            I guess you are correct if you wish to ignore that the contract called for Rossi to transfer his IP to IH after the payment of the $10M. Rossi seems to have ignored this term of the contract.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Mike,

            What do you think IH used to build the Tigers, the smaller ECat reactors, the reactor control boxes, the firmware, the central computer, the software, the control modules Sally and Mary?

            You think they just guessed at how to build all that hardware?

            Plus what kind of idiot would build and ibstall all the hardward inside the 2 containers if they thought it didn’t work. Please Darden is not stupid and would not have approved spending IH money and manhours on the 1MW plant and backup unless he knew it worked.

            The existance of that IH built plant screams it worked and IH had all the Rossi IP they needed to make it.

          • Chapman

            Did the transfer of IP have any effect or relevance to the 1 year GPT?

            Would IH not have refused to deliver the plant, and refuse to FACILITATE the test, and prevent the process for the 89 mil payment if they HAD NOT received the IP and other conditions set forth for the second payment of 10 mil?

            Are you really naive enough to believe the claim made NOW, at the end of the test, that they never received the IP?

            You do realize, I hope, what an incredibly insane claim that is! If you just paid out 10 million, and received nothing in return, would you just whistle a merry tune, commence the sequence requiring an additional 89 million payment, and sit on you hands for a year saying NOTHING, right up until it was time to pay again???

            You are buying a steaming pile of excrement, and looking at it like it was German Chocolate Cake.

            You actually have to think for yourself, and not just repeat the FUD, man. It is embarrassing!

      • ” If Rossi and IH are still partners as a term of the settlement, it’s likely that one of the first tasks that will be imposed on Rossi is to teach IH how to make working devices as was required by the original contract (following the payment of the $10M).”
        ***I don’t think it was required in the original contract. Rossi was required to turn over a working plant, an independent ERV report, and certain IP. Rossi pulled a Fred Flinstone and IH was embarrassed to find out that they did not have that aspect covered in their contract.

        • Dr. Mike

          Have you read the contract? It appears in the court documents a number of times (#279-10, for one). The contract seems to be clear as to what IP and when Rossi is to deliver it to IH. From court document #264-12 it also appears that Rossi did not understand the terms of the original license agreement. You might argue that the rights given to IH to sell e-cats didn’t mean that the e-cats had to work, but no court would hold the contract to that interpretation. The only fault that I found in the contract is that I believe IH should had tied the second payment to Rossi ($89M or $44.5M plus 5% of profits) to IH’s ability to build a 1MW reactor and run it for a year. The settlement should provide the opportunity to correct that fault.

          • You might argue that the rights given to IH to sell e-cats didn’t mean that the e-cats had to work, but no court would hold the contract to that interpretation.
            ***No, I think the $89M was supposed to be payment for a successful demo, transference of IP, the rights to distribute Ecats in the future and the independent ERV report. If I deliver a stone age tribe a Toyota Corolla, they get to play with it for a while but it probably won’t work for very long without me being around, and they won’t be able to build and sell them. The Fred Flinstone approach. Such expertise of being able to do it themselves would cost far more than $89M because it’s a multi $Trillion market.

          • Looks like DISQUS dropped my reply…

            You might argue that the rights given to IH to sell e-cats didn’t mean that the e-cats had to work, but no court would hold the contract to that interpretation.
            ***No, I think the $89M was supposed to be payment for a successful demo, transference of IP, the rights to distribute Ecats in the future and the independent ERV report. If I deliver a stone age tribe a Toyota Corolla, they get to play with it for a while but it probably won’t work for very long without me being around, and they won’t be able to build and sell them. The Fred Flinstone approach. Such expertise of being able to do it themselves would cost far more than $89M because it’s a multi $Trillion market.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      I agree with your comments, but if you want me to yell at you, I can…

      • Chapman

        🙂

    • Brokeeper

      Until we walk in his shoes (I hope never have to), we will not understand all the truth of AR’s actions. At this point all his actions have been moving the E-Cat forward and positively as a whole despite the negative bumps in between. Good comments Chapman.

    • Rene

      Thank you, Chapman. You said it well even if you didn’t quite mean it this way:

      “I do not know WHAT Rossi will do next. But I do know, without any doubt, that it will be what HE wants…”
      Yes, anything he wants which includes more conniving to get more investment money and stringing people along.
      For the sake of LENR, I decouple the question of whether LENR is real or not (or if real how strong and/or controllable the reaction can be) from whether Rossi has anything. I have more skeptical ‘belief’ in LENR as a possibility and far less confidence in Rossi himself. He’s a proven manipulator. I’m not even waiting for him to come up with anything. It’s not worth the attention. Maybe we all will be pleasantly surprised or maybe ECCO will beat him out, heck maybe even me356.

    • clovis ray

      You put it very well Chapman. And you are preaching to the choir. When I come to me.I have said this many times here. He does things others might think is strange. But he always thinks things through before acting on them and constantly surrounded himself with people who are the best in their fields .he uses computer tech well.
      And has a fertile mind for growing great ideas.

  • Domenico Canino

    Sikkerfoll says Fulvio Fabiani is now at Uppsala working in the same department of Gullstromm. Please Mats Lewan let us know something more…

  • Chapman

    You guys want to have a little fun? It seems to me that now would be a great time to start a friendly pool!

    Right Now, before any public disclosure is made regarding the settlement, lets each go on record with a firm prediction as to what we will learn. Nothing big, maybe just for bragging rights, maybe we play for an ECW T-Shirt and Coffee Mug. I will gladly arrange with Frank to pre-cover the prize cost from the website store.

    And it does not need to devolve into arguing and bashing over individual predictions, let’s just post our prognostications clearly and concisely, presented on their own merits, and then we can all come back and compare after the fact, and Frank can be the “caller” who decides who came closest to the bullseye.

    And NO ARGUING!!!! Just make your official prediction, be nice, have fun…

    Here is MY official entry:

    1. An agreement was reached to professionally rewrite the contract, due to the ambiguities, and general poor verbiage.

    2. Darden agreed to recognize the diminished role he has as a mere franchisee. He will acknowledge that he only has power of attorney rights over the patents and IP in HIS region, in order to allow them to independently defend the value of the patents from infringement within his territory, but has no legal ownership or control over the source.

    3. Darden will release a face-saving statement that they have full confidence in the tech, but were merely attempting to demonstrate due diligence in protecting the interests of their investors, but things spiraled out of control due to the Fringe nature of the physics involved.

    4. Darden will release an affidavit stating that Rossi has fulfilled all obligations as per the contract up to the end of the GPT testing phase, and makes no claim regarding any failure to perform on Rossi’s part.

    5. Rossi has agreed to modify the financial arrangement. IH agreed to pay all legal fees associated with the legal action. Rossi agrees to amend the GPT payment requirement so that he only receives 10% of the 89 million now – 8.9 million – with the remaining 80.1 million to be covered by an increase in the initial royalty schedule raising the Rossi royalty to 10 percent of actual sales up to the point covering the full 80.1 million balance, at which time the royalty will drop back down to the previous couple percent until total payout reaches the 1 Billion point, at which time IH would cease continued payments, and their license would be secured forever on a “Grandfathered” basis, so long as they maintained good legal standing with Leonardo Corp.

    • Frank Acland

      Who would be the judge?

      • Chapman

        YOU!!!

        (I just thought it would drive a friendlier discussion that the endless bickering and name calling! You would have to make the final call, but you could host a final night debate if you wanted to go for a happy consensus on the final ruling. I did not mean to Volunteer you for anything, You are just the OBVIOUS choice…)

      • Frank, if you agree to having this contest then this should have its own thread. Many people have already moved on from this news item.

      • Michael W Wolf

        You Frank. Who else. 🙂

    • My prediction is that the 2 legal sides will publish essentially what is already known about the settlement, that it’s dismissed with prejudice, both sides pay their own legal fees. It will have a little bit about both sides wishing the other well in their future endeavors. And it will say that Rossi has the IP and IH has no licensing rights but that if both sides are interested in the future, there is nothing that precludes an agreement in that respect. Both sides are proceeding according to their own separate paths.

      • otto von ottsville

        Right. And Rossi loses his funding. If he had a working design he would have to flood markets with it before it was copied. And his source refused to fund him because he couldn’t prove his gadget works. His fee was chump change – if the thing worked IH would already be building factories.

        But they’re not because it doesnt. Thats the reason they refused to pay isn’t it?

        • The premise of this exercise is that you’re not supposed to argue. So why are you arguing?

        • NCY

          They aren’t building prototypes because they know that the tech that Rossi sold them 2 years ago is already outdated. Th QX blows it out of the water and they know it.
          I suspect that either A) Rossi will get his north american rights back, and IH will not pay.
          or B) they will work out a new distribution deal for the QX and then they will pay Rossi a lump sum or ongoing royalties.

    • Dr. Mike

      Would you mind citing the court documents that support your opinions?
      It seems that I have missed most of the evidence in the court documents
      that might support your position.

      However, there can be no contest because only the lawyers that wrote up the settlement would be able to judge the contest. The lawyers are going to say one of two things: 1) Rossi and IH are no longer partners or 2) IH and Rossi have dropped their lawsuits and have come to a new agreement (no comments about the what or why). (That will be my “official entry”.)

    • Michael W Wolf

      The only thing Rossi seemed worried about was the licensing rights. He even said he would refund the money if IH gave up the rights. So Rossi at least got that. I think IH could not make a case to discredit Penon, so IH are obligated at least to covering Rossi’s court costs. Contract is null and void.

    • GiveADogABone

      1: The ERV report is accepted by IH to be true.
      2: All claims and counter-claims are null and void.
      3: The Licence Agreement is null and void.
      4: The parties go their separate ways.
      5: The financial settlement is of no interest whatsoever.

      • sam

        I.H. has paid Rossi some of the
        89 million for R&D on QX.
        When it is tested by someone
        agreeable by both sides and
        if the test is positive I.H. will go
        all in financially.

        • GiveADogABone

          I guess that is your official prediction and under Chapman’s ‘NO ARGUING!!!!’ rule I could not possibly comment.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      After an evening of drugs and booze, jointly Darden and Rossi agree to:
      1: Both stiff their lawyers and not pay the fees.
      2: Abandon commercial E-cats as not cool enough.
      3: Start a new company to mass market QuarkX powered Lava Lamps.

      Oh, and Rossi’s wife soundly trounces Darden at tennis.

  • Chapman

    Don’t y’all go bashin’ on Engineer like that… He ain’t done nothin to you, and folks round here are likely to take o-fense to yer underhanded sheenanigans.

  • Chapman

    I understand.
    And you have a right to your opinion.
    But trolling the guy and getting all pizzy about it is certainly not going to win over any converts, now is it?

    Look, the trial is over. The 10,000 lies from Darden’s “Agents of F.U.D.” have been thoroughly disproven. Continuing to argue the point no longer has any value. Even Darden has thrown in the towel, and accepted defeat. Will you now be like those Japanese holdouts in the jungles who continued for thirty years to pretend the war was still on?

    Accept the truth. It is over. Rossi prevailed! It is not dishonorable to have been on the losing team. It is only dishonorable to refuse to admit defeat, and to stubbornly continue the fight when the war is over and the world is trying to move on…

    Engineer was right.
    You were wrong.
    No big deal.
    The sun still comes up tomorrow.

    Just be a man, and accept defeat gracefully!

    (And don’t be so angry and mean all the time!)

  • Engineer48

    Hi Bruce,

    With respect, what a load of BS.

    You came here with an inbuilt bias that LENR is not real. I sent you all the SPAWAR links, which i consider the best available. Apparently you rejected their data as it seems you still have your original opinion and attack those that have a counter opinion.

    I’m not here every day, sometimes away for more than a werk, so stuff can be posted that I do not read.

    If you wish to reengage on what ever it was, let it rip.

    • Bruce__H

      Regarding the flow of condensate into the Big Frankies …

      You provided an image complete with suggested flow pattern,
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f6c917e0926b2a25a84bb080b6cd111ceca33e594f2e8880878b39818aa942d6.png

      I’d now like to know if you still think this is correct. I see 3 things wrong with it

      1) It requires the condensate in the internal holding tank to be pressurized and this runs contrary to the statements of multiple people … in fact you are the only one I have ever heard who says this is true

      2) It requires the lagged pipe running along the floor across the front to turn a right angle and join the vertical uninsulated pipe on the left (as shown by your blue line with arrows). This doesn’t happen. The horizontal lagged pipe and the vertical one are not continuous. As proof I show a closeup of another image of that lower left hand corner

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d823451005108ff061b1c55c973cb4c6a73697ee6d32082d0d79836253774745.jpg

      … and then an even closer closeup …
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d823451005108ff061b1c55c973cb4c6a73697ee6d32082d0d79836253774745.jpg

      ….which plainly shows that there is a piece of wood separating them.

      3) Your pattern of flow requires the pumps to work backwards. The Prominent pumps are fed from below and the pump outlet is upwards. You have the flow going backwards.

      So how does condensate get into the Big Frankies? Via the pumps! That is the route everyone says it is the only one there is any photographic evidence for. Your theory of a separate route requires a vertical pipe connected somehow to pressurized condensate and there is no evidence for one. It is true that there are 3 vertical pipes near the setup but they are accounted for.

      1) The one on the left in your image is a drain (that is why it is uninsulated)

      2) There is another one at the back end of the Big Frankies and on the right from the viewpoint of your image. This is a pressure relief pipe.

      3) Another at the back end of the Big Frankies but on the left from the viewpoint of your image. This is the steam riser.

      Any thoughts?

  • Engineer48

    Hi Bruce,

    Wrong tree. The palm tree is not growing against the building. Never mentioned the palm tree.

    Try the tree that is growing against the building and is covering the northern most set of 4 window panes. That free was eventually cut down.

    As for the marks on the floor, they are probably from the 2 x 25, 000cmh fans that forced air into the air chamber that surrounded the heat exchanger pipes.

    You did see the photo of the 6 inch dia hole in the dry wall that Smith failed to see and the marks on the floor where the entry opening was?

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    I completely agree that the potential is there, but the “octopus” has tentacles that can turn the great, positive idea of an outsider in exactly that (which happened with Petroldragon): a scam accusation.
    Dr Rossi learned the lesson first hand. The scam accusation false, obviously, favoring – who would know! – the usual well established and well ‘connected’ big business, which buys itself more time.
    That time is now running up. Go Dr Rossi! From the Vimercate housewife.

    • Vinney

      The world has charged since the days of Petroldragon.
      We have a multitude of alterrnative energy technologies, progressive local government authorities and ‘looming’ climate issues.
      There are plenty of coal fired facilities on sale with no ‘takers’ in many countries of the EU, US and Oceania.
      Soon they will be offering them for free.

      • Omega Z

        Most of the coal plants in the world are past their prime. The metal is stressed, brittle and worn out. In the U.S. many have already been in extended operation because of the waiting list to build new power plants of any type. If they were in better shape, they would already have been converted to N-gas.

        ??? Offering them for free.

        Likely many could be had just for scraping them. A more likely scenario is they would be willing to pay someone to take them off their hands with the transfer of responsibility of clean up… Think Brownfield project…

  • Mike403

    Hot Fusion: Don’t hold your breath!
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-40558758

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkJ3mjPoD54&ytbChannel=yvesBsAs
      min. 4.58: “Hot fusion is the energy of the future, in the sense that it will never have a present”.

      Pity it isn’t in English.

      Del Giudice had the unique capability of explaining physics to an audience in a way that anyone could understand.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v5eBf2KwF8&ytbChannel=irmins

    • cashmemorz

      First they have to get the physics correct. With the admission of Rydberg matter having a role in the surface area where the Sun actually produces the multimillion degree heat, the Tokamak and Stellerator based design of hot fusion will have to be totally scrapped.
      Then, to incorporate the Rydberg pathway to obtain that kind of energy output a totally different kind of device will have to be designing if an Earth based version of what the Sun does is to be achieved. Refitting the existing ITER machine to do that would be like tryinhg to make an internal combustion engine do the same thing as an electric motor. It could be done but the result would be a horrendous looking contraption, and equally horrrendous cost in line with the changes needed.

  • Omega Z

    More like around July/August 2015. The QuarkX is also just a design variation of the E-cat to overcome certain operational problems like runaways that result in total destruction.

    All E-cat technology current and future developments was included in the contract.

  • sam

    JPR
    July 11, 2017 at 4:47 AM
    Update?

    Translate
    Andrea Rossi
    July 11, 2017 at 6:10 AM
    JPR:
    Also today the E-Cat QX is in good standing. By the way: this is the final name: “E-Cat QX”
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • sam

      Steven N. Karels
      July 11, 2017 at 1:31 AM
      Dear Andrea Rossi,

      I believe QuarkX technology could be used in military applications when such applications are “joint use”. Examples might be ship propulsion and environmental heating. Applications where the military adapts a commercial product for their own use. The high power density and long times between refueling have obvious advantages over conventional fuels. Imagine a tank that did not need to be refueled every day…

      Translate
      Andrea Rossi
      July 11, 2017 at 6:12 AM
      Steven N.Karels:
      Honestly, I prefer to focus on civil applications.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

    • Vinney

      This is good news.
      Means A.R got back the rights to E-cat technology.
      He is no longer hiding that the QX derives from E-cat technology.

      • Certainly appears that way on the face of it.

  • Jimr

    I do not know if very well is applicable, after the first 8 months of the year long test, he stated he had 186 problems . Most , i’m sure were minor.

  • Engineer48

    Hi Bruce,

    I’m away from my office and the computer with all my ECat photos.

    Will reply to you when I get back.

    Please stop talking about the palm tree. I never mentioned it.

    You should know the tree/big bush that was covering the northern set of windows has been removed. All the other similar trees/bushes have not been removed.

    I have photos that support the existance of the upper story heat exchanger showing:

    1) 2 x condensate return hoses connecting to the serpentine heat exchanger inside the Black JM container.

    2) same 2 hoses lying on the floor outside the western end of the Black JM container.

    3) clear indication hoses and/or electrical cables entered via the northern side of the upper story access door.

    4) approx 6 inch dia hole at floor level in the northern side of the upper story dry wall. Same size as the hole in the Black JM container that allowed the steam pipe from the ECat to enter. Do note Smith claimed no holes in the dry wall yet it is there.

    5) vibration rubber marks on the upper story floor.

    6) multiple images of upper story windows with missing glass.

    7) break in the black insulation around the JM container where the bypass pipe would have exited.

    8) Dr. Wong’s calculations that a upper story heat exchanger of the size Rossi indicated would easily exhaust 1MW of heat.

    9) Dr. Wong’s statement that upper story windows were missing their glass panes.

    10) clearly heat stressed tree that covered the 4 northern set of 4 windows.

    11) this tree was later removed.

    12) conviently missing image between 11 and 12 that would have shown the bypass valve and piping inside the JM container.

    So Bruce there are more supportative evidence than just the heat stressed tree that there was an upper story heat exchanger as Rossi claimed.

    • Bruce__H

      You mentioned a tree with heat-distressed foliage. You provided a photo. I have shown that the brown and dead foliage you indicate in the photo actually belongs to a palm tree that is situated 20 metres from the building itself. I know you never mentioened the palm tree. I am the one who did.
      Other points …

      1) 2 x condensate return hoses connecting to the serpentine heat exchanger inside the Black JM container.
      – Yes

      2) same 2 hoses lying on the floor outside the western end of the Black JM container.
      – Yes
      3) clear indication hoses and/or electrical cables entered via the northern side of the upper story access door.
      – No. There are 2 clean areas on the floor in the doorway. They are beside the 2 door jambs. People tend to walk through the middle of the door and that makes the middle dirtier.

      4) approx 6 inch dia hole at floor level in the northern side of the upper story dry wall. Same size as the hole in the Black JM container that allowed the steam pipe from the ECat to enter. Do note Smith claimed no holes in the dry wall yet it is there.
      – A dark smudge near the stairs. Could be a hole that goes through or maybe not. There is no way to get a satisfactory measurement of its width but it seems to be comparable to the vertical height of the bannister on the landing for the steps. I think that is a 2×4 so it seems like the dark patch is something like 2 inches.

      5) vibration rubber marks on the upper story floor.
      -No. They donèt match any configuration for the heat exchanger that I can figure out.

      6) multiple images of upper story windows with missing glass.
      -No. Hugely controversial. How do you figure out if these are really missing? Very weak.

      7) break in the black insulation around the JM container where the bypass pipe would have exited.
      – ? Maybe. Haven’t seen the evidence

      8) Dr. Wong’s calculations that a upper story heat exchanger of the size Rossi indicated would easily exhaust 1MW of heat.
      -No. ThomasHuxelyNew on LENR Forum has done a bang up job of showing that Wong relied on constants from an Italian thermodynamics
      textbook that was for a windspeed about an order of magnitude greater than consistent with the proposed arrangement. The actual dissipation capacity of Rossi’s proposed arrangement would be something like 0.2-0.4 MW under favourable conditions. Wong’s error duplicates Rossi’s since he (Wong) is probably relying on the same textbook as Rossi. One Rossi recommended to Wong. This is actually evidence that there was no heat exchanger
      9) Dr. Wong’s statement that upper story windows were missing their glass panes.
      – Dr Wong’s observations were mad a year after the Doral test ended.
      Just so happens that a widow firm was there the exact same day! Conclusion? The windows were removed for Wong’s benefit.

      10) clearly heat stressed tree that covered the 4 northern set of 4 windows.
      – No. See above

      11) this tree was later removed.
      – There is no evidence of a heat-damaged tree near the building. It doesn’t matter what was removed.

      12) conviently missing image between 11 and 12 that would have shown the bypass valve and piping inside the JM container.
      – I concur that that segment of the internal works in the JMP container is conveniently missing. However it is Rossi who took those images. No one from IH has ever seen inside the black box. If it is convenient then it is convenient for Rossi.

      There is exceedingly little evidence that there was ever a 2rd storey heat exchanger. If there was ever piping leading from the JMP black box to the second story it had disappeared the morning after the Doral test ended. Pictures of the area taken at that time do not show it.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Bruce,

        Stop it with the palm tree references. I never indicated nor stated I was talking about the palm tree.

        As I said I will reply in detail when I have access to my photo archive.

        I checked Dr. Wong’s calcs. They are correct. The guy on LF is wrong. He has a very clear and strong anti Rossi bias to prove Dr. Wong wrong.

        Very little of the statements made on LF are technically correct and accurate.

        Just look at all the wasted comments on the now proven false statements by Jed on the flow meter.

  • Engineer48

    Hi Bruce,

    Rossi told me the 2 fans were used next to each other and placed in an enclosure he had learned to make that reduced vibration and noise. That enclosure, which would vibrate is probably what made the marks on the floor.

    The piper in the heat exchanger enclosure would not vibrate and so didn’t need rubber to isolate it from the floor.

  • Omega Z

    Whats it been. 60 years and a couple 100 billion$ for hot fusion with full Government and Scientific support.

  • Engineer48

    My prediction?

    1) no lawyer announcements until Darden’s $89m is in Rossi’s bank account.

    2) IH will maintain their license and will market ECat QX product in their licensed areas.

    3) IH will claim they made a few bad decisions based on incomplete information from their experts plus they never authorised individuals that made statements on LF to do so.

    Business is business.

    • That would imply some sort of behind the scenes validation by IH experts of the E-Cat QX (which would not be all that hard given its alleged properties). That would be one explanation for the quick end to the trial — Rossi deciding to end the mystery by bringing IH up to speed.

      This is very interesting as you sometimes communicate with Rossi and I wonder if you have some inside info that makes you think this is how things went. Do you?

      Doesn’t really fit though with how the lawyers behaved as it was described to us.

      • cashmemorz

        One more go at how the two, IH and AR agreed to something mutually agreeable.

        I am not privy to anything that is actually is in their agreement so just another opinion, but a possibly workable one.

        Rossi wants the $89 million, IH wants the last bit or core IP. So Rossi gives the core IP of the E-CAT, although obsolete on the comparison to the supposedly existing newer Quark X version. But that is enough for IH, since that would prove that Rossi does, in fact, have a working IP and AR has nothing to lose here if he has a working new version in the embodiment of the new Quark X.

        So the money goes into escrow. Only the lawyers of both parties and a technician, schooled in the E-Cat operation, and a mutually agreeable to, by both parties, notary public or chartered accountant or some such third party that will be at the test site to make sure everyone is playing by the rules of the agreement. The C.A or notary public is given the IP in a sealed envelope beforehand by Rossi’s lawyer. The C.A. gives the core IP to the technician and is the only one given the core IP. The technician either makes the E-CAT work or not. If it works, and all agree that it works with the core IP, the C.A. gives the papers describing the core IP to IH and the C.A. transfers the &$89million from escrow to AR’s bank account. If this souind reasonable then please tell me. If there is a flaw in this plan also let me know and I will try to fix it.

        • Your plan is too close to the original plan, with the independent ERV report and the contract that has been dismissed. If the SHTF again (which it will) , then neither side has legal protection because the court will dismiss any complaints. In order to get your plan bullet proof, you would need the judge in Rossi vs. Darden to sign off on it.

        • It doesn’t seem to match what happened in the courtroom on settlement morning. But other than that it’s plausible.

    • Arnd Rosemeier

      I am almost sure that IH won’t pay the $89m straight away. They may have made a new contract that can be worth as much when Rossi delivers to the public. Or they may pay a much lesser amount… or nobody pays anything at all. I think it’s safe to say that it’s not worse than that for Rossi since he seemed to be content.

  • Here we are again, back in our comfortable limbo, three months from deliverance.

    Will this time be different? There are good reasons to think so.

    There are also good reasons to think not. We need all the reasons to get their 5#!t together and start telling the same story!

  • Rene
  • Omega Z

    (demanding?)

    Look at you, You little dictator.

    The only right you have is to follow along or not.

    As my mama used to say, if you want dinner a little earlier in the day, feel free to cook it.

  • Warthog

    Garbage. Engineer48 has a real job out in the real world that has to take first priority. I am amazed that he finds as much time to invest commenting here as he does. Hell, I’m retired, and “I” have enough other things needing to be done that sometimes things get dropped here.

  • Jas

    It looks like he first used the term QX back on the the 8th of July in a reply to Dr Joseph Fine.

    • Brokeeper

      Actually he coined it first on April 5, 2016:

      Joseph Fine
      April 5, 2016 at 7:43 AM

      Andrea Rossi,
      Orsobubu asked if the COP was less than 758,327.
      Even if the COP equals (or exceeds) ‘only’ the cube root of 758,327 ( or 91.191 ), that
      still would be a tremendous achievement.

      Whatever the results are from the 350 day 1 MW test, do you think results from
      a similar test of the E-Cat QuarkX (or QX) would equal or exceed those of the
      E-CAT 1 MW system?
      ‘F8’

      Best regards,
      Joseph Fine

      • Jas

        Ahh but it was Joseph who used the term then.

        • Brokeeper

          Yes “he” did. 🙂

  • Brokeeper

    Big things happen in October, including stock crashes. A presentation then could disrupt the market.

  • Buck

    It has been about 6 days since the settlement was announced.

    Should it take this long to develop a simple joint statement? The day-by-day growth in the “delay” suggests there is nothing simple about the resolution . . . that it takes billable time for the opposing lawyers to craft any necessary documents acting as hidden appendices to the joint statement.

    Am I the only one who has this growing awareness and the possible implications?

    • It does lend some credence to a large monetary transaction as part of the deal. That might take some time to execute and/or hammer out the associated settlement language.

      • Buck

        I agree with your point.

        However, I am beginning to imagine that there is more to the settlement complexity than the large monetary transaction. As Frank implies just above, there may still be some form of revised licensing arrangement between Darden/IH & Rossi/Leonardo.

    • Frank Acland

      Buck, I don’t know that it would be a simple statement, given the situation, and it could require much attention from both sides before they are both satisfied.

      • Buck

        Frank,

        I think you are aligning with my point. One could argue what the simplest settlement might be, but for the sake of argument the simplest might be:
        = Affirmation of the full revocation/cancellation of the original license agreement
        = Agreement that there are no future financial liabilities between the parties . . . the $11.5M paid to Rossi is forfeit and each party is responsible for their own legal fees.

        I suggest that as the days accumulate, the probability of the simplest settlement being the actual settlement goes down.

        • Frank Acland

          AR said no details about financial arrangements would be released, so I guess they are trying to find the best way to describe the relationship between the two parties (if any) going forward. If the two sides are now reconciled in some way they will have to find a way to back away as gracefully as possible from the previous antagonistic stances.

          • Buck

            I agree. But, I should say that this form of resolution as I see it (the two parties make up and continue together towards ECat QX commercialization as a team) is unexpected.

  • Who will be first?

    • NCY

      BLP are a bunch of scam artists. They may or may not have something that uses LENR to some extent, but their best skills lie in getting money out of investors through complicated tax break incentives.
      Brillouin are copycats, I haven’t seen them do anything that someone else had not already done first, and better.
      That leaves Rossi, who, if reports about the QX are valid, has a commercially viable product pretty much ready to move into mass production.
      Hope this answers your question.

      • Unless one can predict the future this question will only be answered when one of them puts a product for sale on the open market. However, it’s interesting get people’s opinion on the matter. Personally I think its a dead heat between Rossi and Mills.

      • Epi

        “BLP are a bunch of scam artists.”

        You have absolutly no idea what you are talking about. Take a look into the molecular modelling equations – that is something that is useful and groundbreaking and it is already available. And then look at this paper:
        http://brilliantlightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/papers/Hydrino-Blast-Power-Paper-053117.pdf
        These are some serious experimental results.

        I think the suncell is hard to engineer so I am not sure if or when they will suceed. But the science is real. In the paper they measured the distance between the two atoms of the dihydrino molecule and it is as Mills theory predicts – way smaller than the distance of the hydrogen molecule.

        • NCY

          As I said, they might or might not have something, but their best skills still are in getting money out of people and then not delivering a product, then getting more money out of others and still not delivering anything. They have been doing this for nearly 30 years! This pattern (of making promises, raising money, and not delivering repeatedly) is what makes me call them scam artists.

          They are never as close as they claim to be to a working product, and they never deliver on their promises. As such I would not bet on them as being able to deliver a working product to market first (regardless of how sound their theories are or how genuine their device is).

          • Michael W Wolf

            lol, yea. well establishment scientists have been doing it for 90 years or so. And 1000’s of times more of our money, not investors choosing to give money. To not be angry about that shows your insincerity. In reality if they are scam artists, then they are 1 1,000th of the scam artists in establishment science are, and takes our money, and does what they want with it.

      • cashmemorz

        I have looked at BLP, Randell Mills very closely, after I heard him talk about his inventions and the cosmos. At first, I felt the way many would feel who had only heard the Standard Model story. Incredulity and knee jerk reaction of “scam” etc, etc. Now my assesment is close to 99.999% sure he has something and that something is revolutionary, based on several aspects. Have read part way through his thesis. The further in I get, lots of complex math not withstanding, the clearer it becomes that a scammer would not be able to do, or bother, to the extent that Mills did, in developing a very logical and incisive road clearing of what the Standard Model has built up, more like littered, the road of physics with unneeded hypotheses, in the guise of postulates.

        If physics is to be judged according to its predictive powers, the theory that Dr. Mills has developed since 1987, has predicted many things and Mills has develoed at least 6 working items based on those predictions that should no way be able to work successfully, if just based on the physics known in the Standard Model. But they have all passed the stage of proof of principle . One is being used for free over the internet for extemely accurate molecular modeling of new or novel subtances that beats out the similar best app based on QM hands down. Same for the other items. The coupling between the electric current force and gravity has long been suspected and touted with very little to show outside the lab, or even in it, until Mills put together a working lab device, which I gather is being developed into a practical device demonstrating anti-gravity. The Standard Model has not allowed anything anywhere near like that to be even attempted in a serious way. The hydrino has led to virtually indestructible materials. Dr. Mills was involved in more mundane technology in the area of Magnetic Resonance Imaging, from his stint as a medical doctor working in medical hardware if that can be called mundane.

        Then the people on his management team in BLP are all high powered individuals. Those kind of peole don’t get involved with anything that looks remotely like a scam. They do, however, do very intense due diligence if they suspect they can make a satisfying career for themselves in a break through technology. They have found BLP to be based on very firm ground for very long, satisfying personal careers both in very large prestige and in very large monetary gain.

        • Dr. Mike

          I’ve written a couple of posts on potential problems with the SunCell that will make the development somewhat more difficult than what Mills is projecting. However, I believe the engineering problems will eventually be solved. BLP.s recent decision to initially offer a SunCell that produces heat rather than electricity should greatly improve the odds that BLP will have prototypes running sometime later this year.
          I’ve looked a little at Mills’ theory. As an EE, it makes sense that Maxwell’s equations would be a good starting point to model atomic structures. I also think that his theory’s predictive powers are a strong point that merits further investigation. Assuming Mills gets his SunCell operating at a reasonable performance, either physicists are going to have to take a closer look at his theory or they are going to have to come up with an alternative explanation of how his device is producing energy.

          • cashmemorz

            Thanks for your response. I should look at what problems you have found. Mills may or may not be too confident to expose any shortcomings of his theory or how he carries that over to his devices.That aspect may be only in his personal notes and or shown to his employees on a need to know basis.

          • Dr. Mike

            Mills always puts up a disclaimer at the beginning of his presentation stating that the views may be “forward looking”, which is fairly standard for someone “selling” an unproven technology. I don’t believe Mills sees any shortcomings in his theory. My posts of 1/29/2017 and a correction on 2/1/2017 discuss potential development problems with the electrical output SunCell, mainly achieving uniformity in the illumination output that is required by series connected concentrator photovoltaic (CPV) cells, loss of cell coverage area in the proposed design, and the illumination intensity being greater than the specs for existing CPV cells. One big issue with the thermal output SunCell is that the internal graphite wall temperature might be too high for an external temperature of 3000K or greater unless the thickness of the graphite is minimized as discussed in my 5/21/2017 post. I’m sure Mills and his team are aware of all of these issues and are working to resolve them. I would expect there will be other engineering problems that will only be seen when the SunCell is ran at a high output power level for an extended period of time.

      • Björn-Ola

        You are absolutly right about BLP, a bunch of scam artists, just like hot fusion scientists.

        • No. Explain their results then.

          • Björn-Ola

            I hope you understand I was ironic.

      • NCY, WRT BLP, willfully blind to all they have published? Must be …

  • Tri Alpha after 20 years and $500 million invested no functioning product even in siight and no one is calling it a scam?! https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/fusion-startup-tri-alpha-energy-hits-a-big-milestone

    • Saatana Perkele

      Nope.

  • Gerard McEk

    Maybe naming the QuarkX now (after the settlement) E-cat QX may also have something to do with the settlement. I could imagen that IH may have also the license to produce the QuarkX in their licensed territory.
    I assume that payment of at least 89M$ will only happen after clear and perfect demonstration of the QX and a transfer of IP.

    • Dr. Mike

      It makes a lot more sense for the next payment to Rossi to be less with all future payments tied to IH’s profits (like the second option in the original contract). My guess is that you are correct in that the future payments will be tied to successful transfer of IP and good performance by the QX.

    • help_lenr

      I don’t believe that Rossi agreed to be a partner of IH in the future for any cost. They were not loyal and blocked the progress of e-cat (Rossi wasted more than a year on the 1 year test and the trial, and he will not repeat again that stupidity).

      The ecatqx is only a “trade-mark” but it is an entirely new invention (ecatqx used the knowledge which Rossi gathered when he worked on the prototypes of 1st generan e-cat, this does not make ecatqx 1st generation).

      The contract with IH do not cover any new invention which are built on top of of knowledge gathered from 1st generation ecat. IH claimed (maybe) that ecatqx is actually upgraded ecat but this claim is nonsense because this is a new invention, such claim will be denied in court.

      The contract of Rossi with IH was only on 1st generation of ecat (which will be soon obsolete), IH didn’t buy any IP rights on whatever Rossi will invent afterwards (actually they didn’t have full rights on 1st generation. The contract only allowed them to build 1st generation ecat themselves and sell them in specific territories.

      • Gerard McEk

        About te last paragraph: Rossi has more than once confirmed that the E-catX would be part of the contract with IH.

        • Do you have a reference? I thought he wanted to keep E-Cat and QuarkX as two different things legally.

          • Omega Z
          • Gerard McEk

            I personally have asked AR during the year long test if the hot version of the Ecat (EcatX~ 10kW) belonged to the contract with IH and he said ‘Yes’. The more stable mini version (QuarkX) was developed out of this in the years after, but it uses the same principle.

          • If E-Cat HT and QuarkX can be considered to be the same animal, you are right.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Help,

        If IH pay Rossi the $89m then IH have fulfilled the terms of the license. Ok sure a bit late. Which would mean Rossi would then cancel the IH license termination.

        Then IH needs to throw a few folks under the bus, while claiming they provided faulty advise and information that caused IH management to make improper decisions about the 1MW plant test.

        Should add that Darden and a few REAL experts may be invited to see a QuarkX so to assure Darden the new ECat QX will be a real winner in the marketplace.

        Would suspect Darden how sees Rossi in a new light, after calling him a “Smart Man” as he walked from the courtroom.

      • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

        I’d recommend actually reading the Agreement instead of making a series of unfounded statements about it. http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/0001.2_Exhibit_B.pdf#page=10 — look at paragraph 13.4.

        At one point, Rossi had a different name for the new product, Quark-X. Maybe then he could pretend that it was not an E-Cat development, but he’s given that up, calling it E-Cat QX, acknowledging and taking advantage, I think he has said, of the E-Cat reputation. The avoidance would not have worked. This is clearly a competing product, exactly what 13.4 is designed to address. (Rossi is saying, if I’m correct, that this obsoletes the older E-Cats, confirming that.)

        The Agreement allowed them to build “1st generation E-cats” and all generations of E-Cats. If Rossi invents a new kind of soap, IH would have no rights to it.

        IH, however, will likely not make a major effort to assert this position unless E-Cat QX actually hits the market, in which case it would be worth the possible legal expenses and aggravation. It is very possible that the parties are working out a settlement that would address all these issues.

        If Rossi wants to get rid of the necessity of working with IH, I’d expect that he would need to offer some compensation. At this point, they might accept something reasonable, and because he probably cannot afford to return their investment now, there are other possibilities, he could offer some cash now and some later, leaving them with some kind of hedge, which is what they probably want to make the rest of their LENR investments safe.

        Rossi doesn’t have to routinely deal with IH now, except maybe when it comes to patents. Again, I don’t expect them to try to enforce that at this point, but when it becomes likely to pay off.

  • Omega Z

    They may tear it apart to reverse engineer it, but they will still have to come up with their own unique process. As to coal plants. In the U.S. if they are being shut down is because they are to old to refurbish for N-gas.

    Also given todays technology and the E-cat/LENR technology not requiring access to railways or pipelines, they can be built just about anywhere at any size. Instead of highly centralized they can be distributed into local grid systems where even the waste heat can easily be utilized.

    As to Rossi becoming ultra wealthy. Eventually his estate will as it wont happen overnight. Think of as Rossi is selling burners for power plants, furnaces ect. What they eventually power will be produced by many other manufactures. Rossi’s Quarks will merely be a small piece of a greater whole.

    • There are whole countries that don’t care about our IP protection and they will gladly tear apart the box and build their own identical boxes if they can.

      Coal plants are being shut down because they pollute. There’s still plenty of life in most of them.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Kevmo,

        Yup,

        Thermal plants wear out at the hot end first, the coal burners and associated systems, then the steam systems, next the steam turbines and lastly the generators.

        And yes fitting QX steam generators to existing thermal plant is not a big job and could extend the financial life of almost all thermal plants 2x to 4x.

      • Omega Z

        India recently got a slap in the face for lack of honoring IP and China is getting a lesson as well. Funny thing about IP. If you want your IP honored, you must honor mine as well.

        The coal plants being shut down in the U.S. instead of being converted to N-gas are near 60 years old. That’s 15 years beyond what they were designed for. And even the dirtiest coal plants in the U.S. are pretty clean. They were fitted with scrubbers decades ago. Anytime someone shows you a U.S. power plant with a smoke plume rising, think steam. I’ve seen 1 smokey coal power plant image presented for what it is. And it was located in China.

        The U.S. cleaned up it’s coal plants decades ago. The World Health Organization(WHO) has rated the U.S. with the best overall air quality in the world.

        I’ve seen this image presented many times as a smoke billowing coal plant. It’s nuclear.
        http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/thumb/msid-51096201,width-310,resizemode-4/nuclear-power-plant-reuters.jpg

        As well as a Geothermal power station.
        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/NesjavellirPowerPlant_edit2.jpg/250px-NesjavellirPowerPlant_edit2.jpg

        Ultimately, Rossi will not re-purpose old coal plants which would Expose Rossi/Leonardo to remediation cost of the land at some point. That will be left to current power companies.

  • Omega Z

    Rossi posted on JONP that the 1MW units where put on hold due both to the lawsuit and that the QuarkX.

  • NCY

    Looks like some people have been drinking a bit too much of the Kool-Aid.

    • re: “a bit too much of the Kool-Aid.”
      Others appear too blind to much in the way of published works and actual demonstrations of the tech.

      • NCY

        I actually looked into Mill’s publications quite seriously in the past. As I said before, he may or may not have working LENR, but the BLP guys’ best skills are still getting money from investors and then delaying another year.
        The question at the top here was who will deliver first. We all know that LENR is real, the question is who can deliver it.
        BLP has proven that they are really good at making false promises and not delivering on them. (for 30 years!)
        Brillouin seems always behind the eight ball, copying whatever other people were working on 1-2 years ago, badly.
        Rossi ran a plant with 80 COP for a year, and this isn’t even his best technology.

        If the question is who wins to commercialization, the answer is Rossi hands down.

  • Vinney

    Wow, are you sure you are not on, or know someone on Rossi’s legal team

    • Chapman

      Sorry, but I have no inside info.
      But I can read between the lines, and I can discern between Facts and BS.
      It also helps to ignore what people SAY, and watch what they DO instead.

      Keep in mind that I am just a humble Georgia Carrot Farmer!
      But I’ll tell you one thing, riding that John Deer all day sure gives me lots of time to ponder things…

      • GiveADogABone

        ‘a humble Georgia Carrot Farmer!’
        Jimmy Carter was a humble Georgia Farmer and rose to be President of the USA. I guess it was the peanuts that made the difference, carrots being obviously less inspirational.

  • help_lenr

    In my opinion MFMP are diletant amateurs who talk high words but fail to do anything (even not capable to make replications).

    Their activity does harm, since the add bad reputation to serious LENR research.

    • Stephen Harrison

      MFMP have worked hard to achieve confirmation of LENR you can only bake a cake to the recipe you are given, if it isn’t successful it doesn’t diminish the amount of skill and effort expended. Your too harsh which serious LENR research has been more successful?

    • Toussaint françois

      And you ? what have you done to replicate LENR ?

    • Jas

      What MFMP are doing is bringing all the knowledge from experiments and research from all over the world together into one place. People all over the world have been producing very similar reactions independant of each other. The MFMP is helping those individuals to better understand what is going on by sharing knowledge.

  • help_lenr

    Impression worth nothing.

    Until BLP make a device which actually works (tested by third party) — he did nothing.

    May be he has something, but this has not proved yet.

  • Engineer48

    Hi Hiram,

    To be clear IH has never called or implied Rossi is a fraud, crook or scammer.

    Instead those claims, never supported, were made mostly by people on LF. I’m sure we all know who they are.

    As you just implied Rossi may be a fraudster, please lay out your evidence to support that claim.

    If all you are doing is repeating what others have said, maybe you should consider your words before making statements you can’t prove.

    As for delays in R&D projects, what personal experience do you have to suggest what Rossi is doing could be done faster.

    BTW the R in R&D stands for Research, which means we don’t really know what we are doing but we are working to figure it out as we progress the research.

    • clovis ray

      I agree buddy, people will insinuate something and just keep repeating it like it was the truth.

  • Brokeeper

    It has happened in the past on 10/09/2014: “after publishing the E-Cat report I found out that within minutes it was downloaded by an IP number owned by Blackrock. Within minutes after that oil futures started to fall and have stayed volatile since.” http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/the-big-banks-are-certainly-paying-attention-to-the-e-cat/.
    It could happen again after the QX demonstration, especially if a date for production is mentioned.

  • Jimr

    8 July. Rossi said, I have strongly simplified the Ecat Qx, making it much easier to make and it worked very well.

    11July,Rossi was asked,The new production method, is that related to
    A fuel
    B The reactorhousing
    C Assembly of reactor housing and fuel
    D producing clusters.

    Rossi’s answer, All the above.

    Is this a completely new Ecat model?

    • GiveADogABone

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/701623a6d9fe67a8e3959a7023d4ed9d86937e213b5982b399b19e4c0cf5edf2.png

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/08/could-this-mini-jet-engine-maker-be-the-next-dyson/
      The more I look at this jet engine, the more I think Rossi/Bladon Jets should run a joint project to replace the combustion chamber with a QX air heater.

      The Bladon Jets 12kW electricity generator is currently being marketed as suitable for microwave towers in developing countries and Jaguar Cars are developing the engine for use in their hybrid electric cars. Get the QX into the electricity generation and transport markets and two major problem areas are sorted.

      • Omega Z

        Other then some type of demo, I don’t see Rossi building electric generators or much of anything else besides the E-cat. Once Rossi starts selling for the heat use industry and has a track record, look for Big corporate CEO’s with a couple of their technocrats to contact Rossi/Leonardo to collaborate with projects.

        If the Quark works, Leonardo will be busy expanding for a growing market with demands of 10’s of Billions of Quarks per year. There will be no time to be involved in areas outside their expertise. Leonardo will only work to optimize the E-cat technology for customer spec’ed given products.

        • GiveADogABone

          Does ‘replace the combustion chamber with a QX air heater’ really imply ‘Rossi building electric generators or …’? The ‘building electric generators or …’ is what the project partner does.

          The premium market for the QX is in high temperature/low pollution heat. Selling into premium markets attracts premium prices. A small, non safety-related (non aviation) gas turbine with inlet temperatures about 1400C would be ideal as a demonstrator of high temperature capability and be a practical application whilst QX sales volumes are low. It is the profits from premium sales that will provide the capital to build the mass production plants for the future. By that time the patents could be expired and the competition chasing close on Rossi’s tail. A sensible businessman (and Rossi is certainly that) will sniff out the premium markets and tackle those first IMO.

          • Omega Z

            I’m pretty sure Rossi will go for the simple heat process for processing needs. There’s to many unknowns with a new technology. There will be a shake out period to learn what problems will need fixed.

            The entire implementing of this technology will be a continuous learning and engineering process once you move past the simple utilizing of heat for heating air or water.

            Apply Quarks to turbines is doable, but will need some serious engineering skills. The Quarks for optimal efficiency needs to be internal where gas would normally be sprayed in to ignite.

            Normally the front of the turbine compresses the air and when it hits the burning fuel expands creating the high pressure thrust out the back. The back blades spun by the exiting pressure spins the compressor blades.

            Due to the size of the Quarks, it is feasible. But I think it would take at least 5 years of R&D and another 5 years to get it approved by the government. Note: It could also be done with an offset loop, but that has it’s own issues to solve.

            Other considerations. Inlet temperature would likely need limited to about 700`C or less if you don’t want to limit life cycle to much. Turbines have even shorter life cycles at 900`C which has been a major limiting factor for aircraft turbines. 1400`C is just out of the question. They would quickly fly apart. Your guarantee would expire before you even fired it up. While I think it’s very possible, I don’t think this would be a car for the masse$$$

            Meanwhile, Rossi should focus on the rest of the energy market. Leave this to those already experienced in the field.

          • Omega Z

            Google- Chrysler turbine car
            Also 1963 Chrysler Turbine: Ultimate Edition – Jay Leno’s Garage

          • GiveADogABone

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_turbine
            At the 2010 Paris Motor Show Jaguar demonstrated its Jaguar C-X75 concept car. This electrically powered supercar has a top speed of 204 mph (328 km/h) and can go from 0 to 62 mph (0 to 100 km/h) in 3.4 seconds. It uses Lithium-ion batteries to power 4 electric motors which combine to produce some 780 bhp. It will do 68 miles (109 km) on a single charge of the batteries, but in addition it uses a pair of Bladon Micro Gas Turbines to re-charge the batteries extending the range to 560 miles (900 km).[56]

            [Please note: Bladon Micro Gas Turbines]

          • GiveADogABone

            http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/05/mhij-20110527.html
            MHI achieves 1,600°C turbine inlet temperature in test operation of efficient J-Series gas turbine

            http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~lior/documents/Powergenerationanalysisforhigh-temperaturegasturbineinthermodynamicprocess.pdf
            August 2000
            Recently, the possible inlet temperature of gas turbines has been increased to 1500°C or more,

            https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40032-012-0046-9
            The performance of combined cycle with dual pressure heat recovery steam generator has been evaluated for different cycle pressure ratios (CPRs) varying from 11 to 23 and the selection diagrams presented for TIT varying from 1,600 to 1,900 K. [1900K = 1627C]

          • GiveADogABone

            Some turbine temperature URLs :
            http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/05/mhij-20110527.html
            MHI achieves 1,600°C turbine inlet temperature in test operation of efficient J-Series gas turbine

            http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~lior/documents/Powergenerationanalysisforhigh-temperaturegasturbineinthermodynamicprocess.pdf
            August 2000
            Recently, the possible inlet temperature of gas turbines has been increased to 1500°C or more,

            https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40032-012-0046-9
            The performance of combined cycle with dual pressure heat recovery steam generator has been evaluated for different cycle pressure ratios (CPRs) varying from 11 to 23 and the selection diagrams presented for TIT varying from 1,600 to 1,900 K. [1900K = 1627C]

          • GiveADogABone

            Some maximum turbine temperature URLs :
            http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/05/mhij-20110527.html
            MHI achieves 1,600°C turbine inlet temperature in test operation of efficient J-Series gas turbine

            http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~lior/documents/Powergenerationanalysisforhigh-temperaturegasturbineinthermodynamicprocess.pdf
            August 2000
            Recently, the possible inlet temperature of gas turbines has been increased to 1500°C or more,

            https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40032-012-0046-9
            The performance of combined cycle with dual pressure heat recovery steam generator has been evaluated for different cycle pressure ratios (CPRs) varying from 11 to 23 and the selection diagrams presented for TIT varying from 1,600 to 1,900 K. [1900K = 1627C]

          • US_Citizen71

            I would think with a high air flow rate the actual air temperatures flowing out past the rear blades would be well below the 1400C operating temperature of the QX.

          • Omega Z

            I misspoke in my post about inlet temperature. The issue is the Turbine blades don’t tolerate temps above 900`C, Even at 900`C, the blades require exotic materials.(exotic = expensive) Turbine engines include an air bybass by design to inject cool air into the turbine to keep temps below criticle.

            High temps are great for efficiency, but at the same time the worst enemy for materials. High temps weaken the materials tensile strength, rigidity and causes embrittlement. That is why power companies use gas turbine generators sparingly for peak demand. Even tho they can generate energy in minutes on demand, they have a short life cycle in operating hours.

            QX operate at 2700`C. This would allow air flow temps around 1600`C so substantial air bypass would be needed to bring down the temps for the turbine blades. Anyway, with enough time, money and engineering, anything is possible as long as you don’t have to little heat..Question, is it economical and reasonable to do so.

            There’s multiple reasons why the Chrysler turbine car wasn’t accepted by the public.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Omega,

            2700C is just one parameter. The other is the energy output. What this means is the flow rate can be increased, to lower the temp of the heat exchanger fluid to match the temp needed by the output device such that the energy in the moving fluid is the same as that produced by the QX reactor.

            Ie increased flow = lower heat exchanger temp while maintaining energy in flow constant.

            Bottom line, the QX runs at 2700C and the steam turbine or what ever the load receives the temperature it was designed for.

          • Omega Z

            E48, Steam turbines are a different issue more easily managed. In discussion is gas turbine/jet engine where air is the heat carrier, however using QX as the heat source instead of gas.

            There’s a direct correlation between heat applied and compressed air supplied to the turbine blades. i.e. the turbine is already optimised to the maximum extent that air can be supplied. Thus the answer the experts have come up with is to draw fresh air through a bypass system to lower the temperature below criticle.

            That said, “I” keep in mind that QX is not a combusted fuel spray and perhaps the QX being so small that they can be installed in an elongated or otherwise modified heat chamber. What I’m pretty certain of is they wont use off the shelf turbines. Likely they will need to be completely reengineered.

      • AdrianAshfield

        I have thought the same thing for some time. I have written Bladon Jets suggesting they look into the E-Cat QX for this purpose.

        • GiveADogABone

          Did they respond?

          • AdrianAshfield

            Not yet, but they haven’t had it long.
            There are several other small turbines too, but this one looked about the right size for domestic use.

          • GiveADogABone

            http://www.gasturbineworld.co.uk/microturbineguide.html
            A good guide to the field and a cautionary tale about the limitations.

      • Thomas Kaminski

        A turbine is an interesting possibility. Also, I know that Rossi looked at Stirling engines and rejected them. Several companies make Stirling/Solar hybrids like this one:

        https://ripassoenergy.com/en/ripasso-stirling-hybrid/

        As I understand it, the biggest problem with fuel-driven Stirling engines is getting the chambers to withstand the high temperatures and be good heat exchangers. An efficient heat exchanger has fine geometry — like the finely spaced heat exchanger fins on a modern air-conditioner. A number of “matchstick” E-Cat QX devices placed in an array will have a lot of surface area for heat transfer. It might work well.

        Stirling engines can also work as heat pumps and are quite often used at cryogenic temperatures for cooling detectors. Sealed units with flexible diaphragms instead of pistons are used there.

        I suspect a Stirling Engine would be less expensive than a turbine.

        • Thomas Kaminski

          In replying to my own posting, there are also thermo-acoustic devices that could vibrate a diaphragm connected to an AC generator. One interesting device is the thermo-acoustic natural gas liquifier that LANL developed. It coupled a thermo-acoustic “horn” to a pulse-tube refrigerator to produce 500GPD of LNG. See here:

          http://www.lanl.gov/org/padste/adeps/materials-physics-applications/condensed-matter-magnet-science/thermoacoustics/_assets/docs/GasTIPS.pdf

          • Chapman

            Hey Thomas,

            I am loathe to interrupt someone’s conversation, but I thought you might have some insight on a matter that appears to me to be along the lines of your current discussion, so…

            I have been looking for ANY articles or info regarding a series of Israeli magnetohydrodynamic generators they have installed out by the dead sea. I was following them back in the early 90’s and they were working great. I thought of them when the E-Cat business first came out, and have tried to find some info on their status, but I find nothing! I do not know whether they were decommissioned or classified!

            They were tapping underground geothermal hotspots by installing a gravity fed column of ferrofluid that gets heated and pumped by convection back to the top, where it is passed through a collector unit that generates electricity from the flowing magnetic fluid passing through stationary coils and cools the slurry. It was a closed loop system with no moving parts, but was not gas or plasma based as most magnetohydrodynamic systems are. This was a liquid metallic ferrofluid. They were using these things to power the remote border security posts.

            You can see why they look like a perfect companion for E-Cat tech…

            Do you know anything about them?

            Any one ELSE know anything about them? This goes back at least 25 years…

          • Omega Z

            Just Google it. A lot of info-

            Anyway, Randell Mills suggested the possibility of using them in the BLP device. Then suddenly moved on to solar cells. My understanding is a lot of info is kept dark by the U.S. Government under national security concerns.

          • Chapman

            Yeah, I see a number of references to the same reports from late eighties, and THERE is the link to the Popular Mechanics article that first brought it to my attention!

            https://books.google.com/books?id=lQAAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=israeli+magnetohydrodynamic&source=bl&ots=jhlLzKWI-o&sig=6dWzc7IqdxIYoW5QeyFhVqFc7UU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJqvStpIrVAhUB22MKHZnDAuEQ6AEINDAD

            Jeezzz… 1985!
            I am an OLD bastrad!
            To think, I was reading that on my way to my retirement party to get my gold watch!

            But I do not see anything about the current status.

            It is a heck of a design idea, and sure worked well, but then so did the Butterball TDP Plant, and look how far THAT went…

            Thanks for the response!

          • Omega Z

            “But I do not see anything about the current status.”
            Can you say- “kept dark by the U.S. Government”

            All I know is it’s supposed to be able to operate at very efficient levels. If there’s a security issue, there must be something we don’t see taking place.

          • Thomas Kaminski

            Hi Chapman. I do not know what happened to them but I do recall hearing about them. The ferro fluid was an interesting concept.

            I did work at an R&D facility where the magneto-caloric effect was being used as a heat pump/refrigerator. The test devices used active regeneration to provide a temperature lift about 5 times the intrinsic adiabatic temperature change of the material. It was mostly of interest in the cryogenic regime. People have also investigated using the magneto-caloric effect for getting mechanical work from a temperature difference.

            I always wondered if it could be used to rapidly steer a magnetic flux through a coil to generate an AC waveform.

  • Brokeeper

    😉

  • Steve Savage

    Big money may be on the sidelines, but this does not mean that they are not paying attention.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    Bruce:

    I looked at the tehcnical data and it seems that the “psig” and ‘bar” units are are both “gage” units, referenced to atmospheric pressure. Roughly 1 atmosphere (1 bar) is 14.7 psig. Note that from the technical data the columns “bar” and “psig” differ by 14.7.

    If you look at the exploded diagram for the pumps, you see a diaphragm that shows two ball valves that control flow in and out of the displacement chamber. A solenoid (electrically operated plunger) pulses to plunge and exhaust the chamber and a “spring” moves the diaphragm back to the full chamber volume. The “spring” provides the force to suck fluid into the chamber and the solenoid provides the force to pump fluid out of the chamber. The two ball valves allow the fluid to enter (lower) and leave (upper) the chamber, forcing one-way flow.

    Normally, the inlet fluid level would be below the pump, requiring the pump to “suck” the fluid up. The outlet fluid would be pushed “uphill”, requiring a positive outlet pressure. In the Rossi case, the inlet side was under positive pressure and the outlet side under zero pressure. In an extreme case, fluid could be forced through the pump’s valves with no pump actuation.

    There are two flow rates given on the technical data tables. Gamm/L # 0232 is rated 8.4GPH at 29 psig, and 9.56GPH at 14.5 (half) psig. From this we can infer that the pump delivery rate will be higher with positive inlet pressure and zero outlet pressure. You would have to ask the manufacturer how much, or test the pump yourself.

    I found a flow vs pressure curve for an air-driven diaphragm pump to show what happens with flow as the pressure increases. Basically, the flow is zero at the maximum working pressure of the pump (the solenoid cannot give enough force to “push” the fluid out), and maximum at zero pressure.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/584d6b47e053c906614a8c55ac47de4c3c77ab4b8e3b3ebcea4f6c7bd85e9c84.jpg

    • Engineer48

      Hi Thomas,

      Prominent make it very clear that the gamma/l pump that Rossi used on the Tigers, when operated at atmo back pressure, instead of at 2 bar back pressure or pumping a vertical 67 foot column of water or 32l/hr, can exceed the RATED feed rate by several times. So not 32 l/hr but at 1x increase 64 l/hr or at 2x increase 96 l/hr.

      36,000 l/day = 1,500l/hr / 24 pumps = 62.5 l/hr. Which suggests the pumps only needed to increase the feed rate 1 times to achieve the required feed rate.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aae418b05e834514b0dd283d5f4595f0abd31ecf6001809316c514f4c9485e8b.png

      As per Prominent: “When metering at atmospheric pressure, the pump can achieve several times the stated feed rate”.

      I’m constantly amazed that folks just ignore the data from the manufacturer as they battle in failure to suggest the pump flow rate was not sufficient to support the necessary 1MW flow rate.

      • Thomas Kaminski

        I agree with you — the data is obvious to those who dig a little. Anyone who has ever used a pump quickly finds out how much flow can vary with pressure.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Thomas,

          I would like to believe both Murray and Smith are good engineers and that someone else presided over them to produce a report that was a work of fiction.

          I find it difficult to believe any experienced thermal engineer would have independently come to the conclusions the Murray and Smith came to.

          I suspect there were other non engineers involved in crafting the reports of Murray and Smith so to present a desired anti Rossi and anti the 1MW plant worked report.

          • GiveADogABone

            Careful! That is close to an allegation of conspiracy to commit perjury. That is a felony in the american system for which fines and a jail sentence are available.

          • Engineer48

            Hi GADAB,

            Someone was the pullet master.

            1) Convincing Darden that there was no need to pay Rossi the $89m as IH had all the IP they needed.

            2) Arranging and feeding data to all the hyper skeptics on LF.

            3) Having oversight for the failed Murray and Smith reports.

            4) Encouraging others than IH would fund them to be able to “Help” LENR researchers.

            What happened was not just a series of disconnected events.

            I believe there may have been a puppet master, a force behind the throne who was not Darden nor Vaughn.

          • GiveADogABone

            You might deduce that I had thought the same and had pre-prepared those references. The problem, as always, is the proof.

          • Engineer48

            Hi GADAB,

            It is only my suggestion but I suggest Occam’s Razor suggests there is a common agent involved.

            Probably not Jed, Abd, Murray, Smith, Darden nor Vaughn. Someone else.

          • GiveADogABone

            Unless you have proof that Mrs Big is the person wot dun it, this would be a good place to stop.

          • Engineer48
          • GiveADogABone

            More probably Colonel Mustard with the lead pipe in the study?

          • Engineer48

            Equally possible!

            Occam’s Razor can cut many ways.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    Note that the plot cuts off at 0.5 bar. The pump pressure is “gage”, meaning 1 atm = 0 gage pressure.

    What happens at 0 bar? The graph does not show that.

  • TOUSSAINT francois

    I see, you are a armchair specialist !

  • ECW readers and contributors—would you please help me recall the key technical questions and issues we have raised regarding the 1 MW E-Cat plant in Miami? If you don’t want to post them here, send me an email to mats@matslewan.se ASAP.

    • GiveADogABone

      Mats,
      The 1MW E-cat test was all about producing the ERV report that had to report CoP values for each of 350 days.

      The calculation is CoP= (Energy Out) / (Energy In)
      Energy Out was calculated as {Mass Flow Rate) times (Specific Enthalpy change)
      Energy In was 3-phase electrical power to the E-cat modules.

      So the three most important questions were :-
      1: What was the Mass Flow Rate of the plant? Answers: about 35,000 kg/day
      2: What was the Specific Enthalpy change? Answers: about 2257 kJ/kg
      3: What was the electrical power in? Answers : about 10-15 kW

      IH’s attempts at destroying the ERV report were attacks on each of these three issues
      in turn. We can elaborate on each question at length. e.g.
      1a: The claim that the flowmeter was whirling in away in air was an attack on the MFR.
      1b: The claim that the feed pumps could only produce 32 l/hr was also an attack on the
      MFR.
      2: The claim that the steam pipes ran flooded was an attack on the Specific Enthalpy
      Change.
      3: There were also attempts to claim the electrical power readings were false.
      The false claim that stopped the trial was 1b.

      • Why do you think it was specifically 1b that stopped the trial? (BTW, MFR means?)

        • GiveADogABone

          Pace addressed the jury and in his opening remarks claimed that the required flow rate was ‘impossible’. Accidentally or intentionally, that was a lie. If a witness lies, all that witness’s testimony and depostions go in the bin. Without Smith’s depositions the ERV report stands and that ends the trial.
          MFR -Mass Flow Rate

          http://coldfusioncommunity.net/rvd-trial-day-3-jury-selection-and-opening-statements/
          1: Pace said: ‘The amount of water that Rossi claimed the E-Cat machines were turning into steam each day — about 9,000 gallons — was impossible, because at most, the pumps available there could pump only 5,000 gallons of water per day.
          [That is the quote and it is false.]

          • Right.

          • Does anyone remember where the defendants claimed that the E-Cat technology was impossible since it supposedly produced more energy than it consumed?

          • GiveADogABone

            In the defendants reply to Rossi’s initial allegations i.e. right at the beginning of the court case. I’ll have to dig in the Google drive to get the exact document.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Mats,

            That was in the Smith report.

            Which is an amazing statement for an engineer to make. One could say that was what a non engineer would say.

          • GiveADogABone

            https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BzKtdce19-wyb1RxOTF6c2NtZkk
            Document 30
            Defendants deny that the energy catalyzer (“E-Cat”) technology generates a low energy nuclear reaction resulting in an exothermic release
            of energy” along the lines claimed by Plaintiffs – which is that a reactor using the E-Cat technology produces more than 50 times the energy it consumes. Compl. ¶ 71. Such claims are not scientifically verifiable or reproducible.

          • GiveADogABone

            http://www.rossilivecat.com
            search on ‘prominent’.
            The post is dated April 8, 2017 at 5:17 AM
            the Prominent pump , as every pump, has a flow rate that is in function of the hydraulic pressure: Mr Smith has hidden to the readers the fact that in the same photo that he reports in his “expertise” is clearly written that the pressure is 2 Bar at the flow of 36 liters per hour !!!
            [If the ’02bar’ in the graphic confuses, then note the pressure in imperial units – 29psi]

            Obviously if the pressure is lower, the flow rate increases. I have personally used that model of Prominent pump and at a pressure of 0.2 Bars its flow rate is about 90 liters per hour.

            If we look well the photo of the pumps system of the E-Cat we can see that the pumps have to raise the water of few tens of centimeters, while 2 Bars correspond to 20 meters !!!! At a rate of 90 liters per hour, the maximum flow rate of all the pumps combined is well above the 1,600 liters per hour necessary to the E-Cat to reach a rate of about 1 M

            An image from 248-06:
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d9dcacb6787eaee83fa1be40e211221c378140ad5c721b58e7ee79cf36983bf9.png

            An image from Prominent pumps:
            “When metering at atmospheric pressure the pump can achieve several times the stated feed rate.”
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aae418b05e834514b0dd283d5f4595f0abd31ecf6001809316c514f4c9485e8b.png

          • Thomas Kaminski

            GDAB:

            “I have personally used that model of Prominent pump and at a pressure of 0.2 Bars its flow rate is about 90 liters per hour.”

            Someone with personal experience using the pump! Beats us “we think”ers.

          • BillH

            And at that .2 bar back pressure the display shows that flow rate and Prominent guarantee that the display is correct outside of it’s normal operating range?

          • Thomas Kaminski

            See Rossi’s comments in Mats’ interview and the comments in the critique of the Smith Report. Says it all….

          • Engineer48

            Hi Thomas,

            Rossi stated in his interview with Mats that the pump, with very close to 1 atmo Tiger back pressure, delivered 75 l/hr.

            Which is backed up and supported by the Prominent 1 atmo statement.

            Case closed.

      • BillH

        Manufacturers manual, page 111 of 120, bottom right 2 charts, with 100% stroke rate, 100% stroke length, 0.5Bar back pressure(K approximately 1.1). Capacity approximately 36*1.1 or about 40 l/h

        • Engineer48

          Hi Bill,

          Yup that data is correct.

          You do understand that 0.5bar is a column of water 17 feet high and that the pump at that pressure can still deliver a minimum of 40 l/hr.

          Now that we agree to accept the pump manufacturers 0.5, 1.0 & 2.0 bar vs feed rate data, it is time for you to accept all the manufacturers data which included now the pumps reacts when the back pressure is 0.0 bar or atmospheric as it was in the 1MW ECat plant as attached.

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aae418b05e834514b0dd283d5f4595f0abd31ecf6001809316c514f4c9485e8b.png

          You see here is how it works, you accept the 0.5, 1.0 & 2.0 bar feed rate data is correct, as it is from Prominent, which means you also accept the 0.0 bar feed rate data is correct as it is also from Prominent.

          You can’t accept one and not the other just because the 0.0 bar feed rate data is inconvenient to the theory you are trying to sell that the 24 x Prominent gamma/l 0232 pumps could not deliver the necessary flow, when the Prominent 0.0 bar feed rate data clearly says they can.

          • BillH

            The difference is that you are interpolation a figure that is off the graph based on less than specific statement by the manufacturer. Tell us what the back pressure actually was and you might have an argument.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bill,

            Rossi has stated the flow rate was 75 l/hr, which aligns with what Prominent have stated.

            Game over.

          • BillH

            Well if Rossi say you’ve wasted all over our time, why didn’t you just say that 5 days ago, doh!

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bill,

            Mate you are flogging a dead horse.

            Time to move on.

          • BillH

            I’m not sure why you say minimum at 0.5bar, clearly you can set it to 0 l/h and any value in between. Doesn’t a metering pimp mean that you can set it to anything up to the maximum, which is dependant on what the back pressure is?

            In any case with no back pressure what you have is essentially a tap, no power required. pumping all that water(sorry steam) up to the mezzanine would easy be 17ft.

    • BillH

      Fabio Penon visited Doral from the 12th to the 14th of October 2015, during this time he measure the current feeding the cores in BF1, BF2 and BF3, 17 of the cores had no current feeding them, these values were logged by Penon on 2 consecutive days the 13th and 14th, they were signed off by both Fabiani and West.

      If you look at the Final Report for the 13th and 14th they look like completely standard test days, and yet the flow of water supplied by the pumps should be down and the steam output should be down because you can’t pump water through the cores that are switched off, for obvious reasons(no heating, no steam). Penon made a mistake here that casts doubt on the whole report. See the “always open thread” for details of the documents I’m referring to.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Bill,

        From what we can deduce, the Big Frankies were multiple reactor cores in series, which would support fluid passing through them even if the reactor core heaters were not electrically powered.

        Why do you believe non powered reactors can’t have fluid passing through them.

        By cycling cores say a month on and a month off, the life of the fuel would be extended.

        • BillH

          because there is only one steam output, if you mix the water with steam on the output side…

          In any case, 64 cores gives 1MW output, only 27 working reactor cores, not so much,unless you use magic.

          • Engineer48
          • BillH

            This would be an incredibly bad design with multiple points of failure, what happens if a single core overheats and fails? Not to mention the incredibly complex control system required with multi stage feedback control loops. Well I suppose BF4 was down for a whole month…

          • GiveADogABone

            A websearch on ‘site:www.e-catworld.com ssm’ should provide plenty of references to explain what the zero electrical power readings are. It does not imply zero heat generation.

          • BillH

            They tested all the rectors in the 3 BF’s, taking readings 24 hours apart(2 sets) and the same reactors had 0 current input, I’m disappoint that you would even suggest that they all could stay in SSM for 24hrs. Now that would be magic.

          • GiveADogABone

            websearch on ‘site:www.e-catworld.com ssm stable’

            http://e-catworld.com/2015/07/05/1mw-plant-and-hot-cat-continue-stable-and-self-sustaining-rossi/
            Rossi has said that both the Hot Cat, and low temperature E-Cat can operate in SSM for very long periods of time now.

            + others

          • BillH

            …and switching off the current completely for 24hrs and extracting many KW of energy is reasonable? I think we need a clearer explanation of exactly what SSM is?
            The impression was that the power was switched off for short times every cycle say 5 seconds out of every 10, because, as someone pointed out this may rapidly become unstable otherwise. AR once characterised 2hrs as a long period in SSM. perhaps there is a new record?

          • GiveADogABone

            SSM mode required a ‘daisy chain’ of reactors, rather than the older individual reactors. The ‘daisy chain’ is built into the ‘frankies’ with feed water in at one end and steam out of the other. E48 provided a couple of diagrams below which explain the basic idea.

            Intermediate reactors are stabilised by the two reactors on each side. If the intermediate reactors are stable without additional electrical power, then I see no reason to think that the stability cannot be maintained for long periods of time, as Rossi has stated.

        • Vinney

          Plus, these cores were at the bottom of the assembly.
          Thanks for BillH for pointing this out, and as with oftentimes when they’re pointing to an ‘anomoly’ a further analysis processes that this extra amount of water in the reactor assembly means the operating reactors in the two configurations above it had to work harder to raise the temperature of water and machinery mass below them.
          It’s like a ‘heat sink’ in the critical reactor assembly, meaning the COP should in reality be up to 2.5% higher. Great work BillH, keep at it.

        • Chapman

          Forgive my asking, and God knows I do not want to start a fight, because even the doubters are being polite with their challenges, but WHY are some folks still stuck on this debate? Is there still something looming that I missed?

          Is there some event yet to occur that could still be affected by the general confidence level in the ERV report? Or is it just a matter of some folks (no insult intended to any of them) having a hard time letting go?

          I am an ametuer Aquestrian, and hate to see any living horse abused. But beating endlessly on a dead one seems beyond pointless, and borders on obsession.

          Don’t get me wrong! I love the way you guys are analysis the proposed faults, and using that analysis not only to challenge the claim, but to discover unique QUALITIES of the plant arrangement. It is a pleasure to read, and I am not criticising! I am merely trying to figure out WHY the conversation is even taking place. If it is a lack of entertainment or distraction that has folks fixated on the report then maybe that will change soon, because GAME OF THRONES is back tonight! Perhaps that will offer enough distraction for them to move on to other things…

    • we-cat

      Hi Mats,

      May i ask why you need the info asap? Or is it too early for that question.

      Cheers,

      JF

  • Björn-Ola

    No problem at all to increase the flow 1.6 times with lower preassure. 2 bar is a very high preassure and I am sure that was not needed for this implementation.

  • sam

    Newyorker
    July 14, 2017 at 5:17 PM
    Dear Andrea:
    Has the settlement agreement been signed?

    Andrea Rossi

    July 15, 2017 at 7:09 AM

    Newyorker:
    Yes.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Buck

      This opens the door to the simple question: where is the joint statement?

      • Omega Z

        The joint statement will not divulge what is the signed agreement. Only what the 2 parties are willing to make public…

        Can you say- Disappointing?

        • Buck

          Yes . . . .

          I must remind myself that Rossi is running the show and that he is notoriously difficult to work with. So, who knows when he will see fit to agree to the release of a joint statement. I can easily see at least one scenario where he simply sees no need to release anything.

        • Chapman

          “Disappointing”

          • Chapman

            (did I do it right?)

          • Omega Z

            NO, No you diddunt.
            Now do it again without the lisp. lol

          • Chapman

            “Dithappointing!”

            (Theriouthly? You making fun of me now?)

  • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

    The low pressure numbers are basically leakage, and leakage will have a much larger effect with small flow rates, not necessarily so much if the pump is operating all-out. 36,000 kg per hour, by the way. Or sometimes other figures. It’s complicated.

  • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

    What Rossi is quoted as saying has no bearing on the claim help_lenr has made. It is not that I think Rossi and Darden will be working together, most likely not (and Cherokee owned no part of Industrial Heat or the present operating company, IH Holdings International, Ltd. The Cherokee claim was a Rossi legal strategy — or a private and legally strange belief, contrary to the documents and law. However, today Rossi has said this:

    Newyorker
    July 14, 2017 at 5:17 PM
    Dear Andrea:
    Has the settlement agreement been signed?

    Translate
    Andrea Rossi
    July 15, 2017 at 7:09 AM
    Newyorker:
    Yes.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    URL for the reply: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=254#comment-1284235

    I expect to see in short order a joint press release. What is clear here is that whatever agreement they make will be mutually beneficial, as they see their own benefit. I do not expect a great deal of information, but can’t make specific predictions at this time.

    What I saw in Court was that they were both willing to let go of the possibility of legally compelling the other and returned to a more normal business relationship, friendly or not.

  • BillH

    Well, the stated aim was to get a COP>6, to trigger a $89M payment, which looked barely possible with all 111 cores in operation. Most of this information would never have been made public had their not been a court case. I would love to know where Fabio Penon was at the start of the trial.

  • Vinney

    Darden (and IH) bought this drama on themselves by not ‘honouring’ the contract early on, and that was by not finding the ‘customer’.
    Had they found a Customer, all the E-cat performmance figures would have corroborated (double and triple checked). Darden should carry ‘ALL’ the losses for this failure.
    That’s when they lost this case.

    • clovis ray

      Hi, vinney
      That’s right I/h got greedy. And they didn’t care about finding a customer in order to test the device they were to busy trying to steal e-cat qx
      And buying up all available lenr devices, with intent to coner the market. Darden has only his self to blame .thats the nature of the Vc business.
      That’s all water under the bridge, time to move on.more exciting times ahead. Thank God.we need a break from that bunch of theives .

    • BillH

      The email exchange between Darden and Rossi contradicts this completely. Darden offered to set up the test local to IH’s premises in NC but Rossi rejected this because it would “lack credibility” because of an earlier familial link with Darden. In light of subsequent even how hollow does that sound now?

      • BillH

        Here’s the docket entry for the emails in question, 238-11-Exhibit-53

  • Frank Acland

    Frank Acland
    July 15, 2017 at 6:04 PM
    Dear Andrea,

    You say that the settlement agreement has been signed.

    1) Will a joint statement by attorneys from both parties still be published?
    2) If so, when do you expect that will happen?

    Many thanks,

    Andrea Rossi
    July 15, 2017 at 6:27 PM
    Frank Acland:
    1- I do not know
    2- n.a.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Buck

      Frank,

      what are your thoughts on the following: Mats Lewan and Rossi coordinating the LENR Symposium and the E-Cat QX demonstration, possibly into the same timeframe and location?

      One of many benefits would be that Rossi would fulfill his previous commitment to Mats to present at the LENR Symposium.

      • Frank Acland

        I hope that Mats does hold his symposium, but if I were Mats, I may want to schedule the symposium a little bit after the E-Cat presentation, just because we don’t really know what the results will be at this point. If the demonstration is a flop, then there might be less interest in the symposium.

        • Buck

          I agree with your point.

          • Omega Z

            4 tiny Quarks would only output 80 watts. You’re not going to boil a 1000 liters of water with that.

          • Buck

            OZ,

            fair enough . . . I assume Rossi would size the water reservoir appropriately for the demonstration so as to make a strong impact.

            For me, the important part of Rossi’s description of the isolated testing apparatus is his use of a truck battery as the sole source of energy to drive the E-Cat QX modules. I am not an engineer, but knowledgeable enough to know that this type of battery would be incapable of driving XXX Liters of water to a boil where E-Cat QX modules with a COP in the range of 60-80 would. Further, the demonstration would be more extreme if the E-Cat QX modules attained the COP = 22,000 the Rossi-Gultstrom article described.

            If there were knowledgeable physicists at the demonstration, then a prepared worksheet outlining the necessary energy for driving XXX Liters of water up by 1 degree Celsius per unit of time would drive home the purpose of the demonstration.

          • Omega Z

            I’m hoping for a good test also, but for Rossi’s detractors, there is no perfect test. They would claim that Rossi had a secret wire connected to it. Obviously, Rossi has access to invisible ink of which he coated the wire. Thus making it invisible to the human eye.

          • Buck

            I agree . . . of course it will be those open to new information and new energy sources who are the target audience for the magician.

        • clovis ray

          Come on Frank. (we don’t really know what the resuits will be )you don’t have much faith buddy, Dr Rossi will come through, and wouldn’t be much of a symposium , without the greatest machine even invented and the man who designed it.😊

    • Michael W Wolf

      Great post Sifferkoll has there. He is dogged and relentless. His assessment of the settlement is pretty close I would think.

  • clovis ray

    Or not that is why they were manned 24/7.

  • Engineer48

    Abd,

    Here is what Prominent stated and it is not what you stated.

    “When metering at atmospheric pressure the pump can achieve several times the stated feed rate”.

    The stated feed rate is a min of 32 l/hr at 2 bar back pressure.

    2 bar of pressure is a vertical column of water 67 feet high. Imagine the energy that the pump must be able to deliver to lift 32 l/hr of water up 67 feet, then tasked with pumping water at atmospheric back pressure where the energy required is minimal.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aae418b05e834514b0dd283d5f4595f0abd31ecf6001809316c514f4c9485e8b.png

  • Björn-Ola

    Thank you Bruce.
    I have no clue of what Grundfos pump it is. Do you have the model name of the pump and dimension?

    • Bruce__H

      Smith, in his supplemental report (court document 235-10, pages 19 and 20), lists the Grundfos pump as model UPS15-58FC. The same document shows some other specs for the pump as well as a photo of the pump in place inside the JMP plant.

      You can use the links available at the Cold Fusion Community website to view the Smith document. http://coldfusioncommunity.net/rvd-depositions/

      • Björn-Ola

        I can’t find UPS15-58 on Grundfos site, but something close to it.
        http://product-selection.grundfos.com/product-detail.product-detail.html?from_suid=150027982053105065427698283602&pumpsystemid=250361591&qcid=231157556
        I dont think a UPS pump with that dimension can produce 2bar. But it can probably produce a lot more than 32l/h.

        • Bruce__H

          It is not thought that the Grundfos pump needed to produce a 2 bar head. The Grundfos pump sat on the JMP side of the Doral facility and was apparently responsible for pumping water from there back over towards the E-Cats sitting on the Leonardo/IH side of the facility. A head of 10 ft (about 0.7 barG) or less would be sufficient.

          Here are some relevant images from pages 18-19 of Smith’s supplemental report (235-10)

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0ab2c3a7d00bf08608b6fbdf71c94ee1e39baffb902c76481e1422570720fbc9.png

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f802af9ed6ee410e7628c77c9a4e3829e751adafe78c61c940d0676d626c3b6f.png

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a19cfcdbd29b9d3660d8e6514712e8a8c6dc9244ef0ca7e1fc2b4cb4c3c68e04.png

          • Björn-Ola

            If I read the pump diagram correctly, the max preassure is 20 feet, and that is 0,6 bar. 32 l/h is 0,15 gpm and the pump can produce a flow of up to 10 gpm at 10 gpm at 10 feet.
            The pump curve is rather flat. I see no problem really.

          • Bruce__H

            I made a mistake. A head of water 10 feet high corresponds,of course, to about 0.3 barG, not 0.7 barG as I said. The figure of 10 feet is relevant because the there is speculation by on of the consulting engineers for IH that the Grundfos was used to pump water from near ground level up into the “steam” pipe that traversed from the E-Cat plant over to the customer side. That pipe is something near 10 feet off the ground.

            I think you are confusing 2 issues. The Grundfos pump is supposed to to be pumping to a location distinct from the Big Frankies that the Prominent pumps feed in to. So, Unless I am I missed something, the 32 l/h figure associated with the ProMinent pumps isn’t really relevant for the Grundfos pump.

          • Thomas Kaminski

            I have used similar Grundfos pumps for solar thermal systems — they are centrifugal pumps, typically. Looking at the curves for the pump, it looks like the Grundfos pump can move 2200 liters/hour — plenty of flow to return the condensate to the Ecats.

            By the way, this implies that the Grundfos pumps could produce a head over the wall to a condensate/boiler feed tank. Anyone know if there is a storage tank for the boiler feed water?

    • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

      Penon claimed that whatever was happening in the “customer area” was irrelevant. If the measurements of the return flow and of the pressure and outlet pipe temperature had no problems, were unassailable, that could be correct. Maybe. However, the Grundfos pump in the customer area could change the system flow characteristics. With access to the flow and modification of it in the customer area, there are many possibilities for possible fraud, ways to cause radical error in, say, the return flow meter. Short of fraud, single measurements are very dangerous, because single instruments can fail, even in ways that would not show up in calibration. What if, for example, the pressure gauge was blocked in installation, thus explaining why it read a constant 0 barG? That’s what would be seen if it was blocked, or possibly if it was burned out by being operated over-temperature (as it apparently was).

      (This would then explain the relatively stable temperature. With a little pressure, that would be saturated steam, which will be constant-temperature. it is very difficult to maintain superheated steam at a constant temperature, because it is not self-regulating, as is saturated steam.)

      The “test” was a sale of power to a supposedly independent customer, and the Term Sheet provided that the customer would measure the delivered power. However, the invoice requests presented by Johnson, it came out, were prepared by Rossi and not based on an independent measure.

      If there was a heat exchanger in the customer area, data from it, were it instrumented, would be an independent measure of power. it could have been done. It wasn’t, apparently.

      Rossi has apparently never understood why people would be skeptical or cautious, and took attempts to verify his claims as if hostile. When possible errors were pointed out, he persisted and sometimes, apparently, became angry.

      If he had a real technology, he made many gross business errors, failing to understand that his customer — his real customer, Industrial Heat — had ordinary and easily understandable needs. He was “desperate” for the GPT to start, I think that’s the word he used in a deposition. Desperation leads us to do things that may not serve us, long-term.

      In any case, it’s over. He is free to work on his technology, and was never not free to market it in Europe, for example.

      He has now said that the settlement agreement has been signed (which more or less confirms what I inferred from what I saw and heard in Court: the parties dropped the case on a trust that they could privately agree on any necessary details. They did not have a settlement agreement at that point. But my attorney friend points out — correctly — that there might have been some draft agreement from the past that they could return to and tweak. In that case, the details still to be worked out could still take some time. Details like continuation of the License — or not –, confidentiality, possession of the Plant, etc.

      I assume that Rossi is correct and that we are likely to see a joint statement soon. I like thinking that Rossi is correct.

      • Björn-Ola

        Thank you Lomac
        I think it is very risky to make a fraud based on not having steam because it is so easy to check.

  • Bruce__H

    Page 111 of the ProMinent gammaL manual at http://prominent.us/promx/files/987604_04_12_gammal_us.pdf plots a pressure-dependent correction factor for calculating pumping rates at backpressures between 0.5 and 2 bar. Look for the plot associated with the 0232 model.
    .

  • Chapman

    I can tell you EXACTLY how the Doral test system operated…

    MARVELOUSLY!

  • Eric Walker is losing it on LF. He now bans every account simply on having the same “mannerism” as me. 🙂

    Ie. arguing that the motives of the posters are important for the analysis … http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/do-we-see-even-more-indications-of-eric-walker-being-an-anti-lenr-astroturfing-professional/

  • BillH

    One might assume that final arbitrator of the truth would be the pump manufactures’ expert. Since this is metering pump you could expect him to say that as long as the pump was operating within it’s rated pressure range whatever the flow rate was settable too was what the pump was pumping, given that there was a sufficient supply of water. So, if the dial on the front of the pump was settable to more than 32 litres per hour it might be slightly more convincing.

  • Chapman

    Sorry guy, he’s going jail…