Leonardo Corp’s Website: Heat for Sale

Thanks to a reader who found on the Ecat.com website (Leonardo Corporation’s official site) that the company is now listing heat for sale on this page: https://ecat.com/ecat-products/ecat-energy

Here’s the text:

ECAT Heat Energy

Leonardo Corporation now offers ECAT Heat Energy as a separate product solution. The ECAT plants are owned and operated by Leonardo Corporation while installed in the customers facilities or at a location in the vicinity of the customers facilities depending on local needs and infrastructure.

The ECAT Heat Energy is delivered by steam at 100-120 Celsius and extracted through the customers local heat exchangers. Return temperatures can be in any range between 5-95 Celsius.

Leonardo Corporation initially look for customers with 24/7 facility operation due to ECAT plants preferred continuous operation.ย Please contact for quotes

It will be interesting to see what kind of response there might be for this, and whether anyone who does get involved will be willing to report their results publicly. There’s no mention here of price, but if it is significantly below current energy costs, this could be an attractive offer for any business who uses a lot of heat in their operations.

  • LOL, they really used the court version of the “1 year report”? Don’t they have their own version without that branding?

    https://ecat.com/news/official-ecat-1mw-one-year-report-from-expert-responsible-for-validation

    • Steve Swatman

      Well legally it is about as good as it gets, so there is that. and lets be honest here, if the heat is indeed for sale at a discounted price and customers begin to use the heat, that gives them an economical advantage and that is a great advert.

      • Bruce__H

        Steve Swatman “…legally it is about as good as it gets,…”

        Not true. How is a report labelled as a scam by the entity paying for it and whose legal status was challenged in court “as good as it gets”? In fact this report is suspect and that is the best way to label it. The only way it could get worse is if the trial had gone through and the challenges to the report upheld.

        I suggest that one reason Rossi settled was so that he could use the report to promote sales without it having been found fraudulent in court.

        • Vinney

          How long do you think Rossi would last in the marketplace, if 1MW thermal reactors didn’t perform.
          My only concern is that the temperatures of the output indicate that these are not QX reactors but still using the same technology of the ERV report.
          Why not supply higher temperatures that the QX reactors can produce.
          But it is a good first step, Rossi progresses with a lot of caution.

          • Bruce__H

            “How long do you think Rossi would last in the marketplace, if 1MW thermal reactors didn’t perform.”

            Thermal resistors will produce heat. That is what I think the “reactors” at Doral were. And they did perform. There is no question that the water was hot since Barry West, one of the IH technicians who worked at the Doral facility, heard the water boiling in the “reactors”.

            How long can Rossi last in the marketplace by producing heat via traditional methods and selling it as LENR-produced heat? Quite a while I would have thought, as long as he sells it a bit cheaper than heat from competing sources.

            And, as long as no coherent set of calorimetric measurements are made no one will know if it is really LENR or not.

          • Alain Samoun

            “Thermal resistors will produce heat.” If that is the case,I do not see how Leonardo can be competitive selling heat…

        • Steve Swatman

          But, he is only selling the heat, which kinda puts him a predicament if he cannot produce the heat at a discounted cost for a long period. So it would seem, as Penons report was accepted by the courts, and he is selling only heat that the “scam” probabilities are pretty low. Of course there are those who will argue until they are blue in the face that this is all a scam, but it is my experience that scam artists want the money up front and then leave you standing in the rain. It took sides to settle, you do though seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Mr Rossi, I wonder how much he has scammed you or your family out of?

          • Bruce__H

            ” …he is only selling the heat, which kinda puts him a predicament if he cannot produce the heat at a discounted cost for a long period.”

            i agree. But maybe he can produce cheap energy by traditional methods. i don’t know. Alternatively, if the amount of money from short term sales outweighs the money used to produce the heat by completely traditional methods then Rossi can come out ahead. This last scenario would require him to decamp at some point before he is discovered.

            Penon’s report was not “accepted by the court” except as an exhibit. The court did not pass judgement on it except to say it was relevant, whether true or false, to the proceedings. If the trial had proceeded a jury might have concluded it was nonsense, or it might have said the opposite.

          • Steve Swatman

            Bruce, I dont know why you have a grudge, but it reads as really ugly. Accepted by the court as an exhibit from an independent expert as claimed., seems good enough for me. The expert is an expert, and the report is a report. that is really all there is. Indeed the jury may well have concluded either way, maybe that is why IH settled, if the report was concluded by the court as factual and correct ih were screwed every which way but loose, conjecture works both ways.

  • GiveADogABone

    How many happy customers for how long before the international physics community admit they got it wrong?
    When would ITER get the chop?

    • Rene

      That will be easy to answer so long as results, positive or negative, are not buried under Rossi required NDA. I would guess within 3 months a company purchasing RossiHeat would know how well it is working out for themselves.

      • Bruce__H

        i don’t think so. You can produce and sell heat without LENR. Just because a company is receiving heat doesn’t mean anything special is happening.

        • Rene

          It is special if the cost for that heat is well below the market price. LENR promises very cheap heat, far less cost than fossil fuels or standard fission reactors. What would not be special to the bottom line of a company is if they paid market prices for RossiHeat. Would companies find it good to have pollution free heat for the same price? Maybe.

          • Bruce__H

            It doesn’t sound to me as though the companies buying this heat from Mr. Rossi would know anything about pollution associated with its generation. From what I can see, all those details are designed to be hidden from the customer together with knowledge about what is really generating the heat.

          • Omega Z

            Everything they need to know is on the Leonardo website.

          • Rene

            I was not referring to pollution generated by the RossiHeat generation. The stated claim of RossiHeat is that it delivers nearly pollution free energy (heat). My speculation is whether a company to be served by RossiHeat would values lowered pollution versus price of the energy. If it does then the price of RossiHeat can float closer to mainstream energy market value. If it does not, then RossiHeat had better be substantially lower than mainstream energy costs.

    • interstellar hobo

      If it works and he has REAL customers, companies will want to be able to tout how Green they are. If Rossi starts hinting (again) that he has secret customers, this is just more of the same old shifty-ness.

      I’ll believe it when he has actual public customers, that don’t happen to be companies that he has invented.

      • Omega Z

        If I were in the market for heat, I wouldn’t want it know to the public for some time. I don’t need the website issues from the curious and all the other scrutiny.

        I believe it would be a rare bird who would want such attention in the early stages.

    • pg

      1.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Use of low temperature heat in the industry:

    http://www.solar-process-heat.eu/fileadmin/redakteure/So-Pro/Events/Krmelj_09062011.pdf

    Note that some of the listed processes (overview on p. 2) work outside of the given range (100โ€ฆ120 C), many of them at temperatures below 100 C. Maybe for such cases a “very-low-temp” (liquid water-) version would make sense.

  • psi2u2

    What an interesting and encouraging development.

    • pg

      Is it?

      • psi2u2

        You disagree?

  • Gerard McEk

    Well, who is bold enough to ask for a quote and some other details?

    • Bruce__H

      Engineer48?

      • Gerard McEk

        Excellent idea! I am not sure what holds him back… ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • kenko1

        Yes, now would be a good time to hear from him. I wonder how much up front $ are needed. And the turnaround time from when your order is placed and paid for, and you get an up and running plant.

        • roseland67

          kenko,

          Not one single person on this planet has any idea what they would be ordering.
          What are ya gonna do, say,
          “Send me an Ecat”?
          No specs, no utility requirements,
          no size, no weight, no connections sizes, no MSDS info, no UL label,
          Etc, etc, etc.
          Would you, or anyone, anywhere,
          Purchase anything without the above information?
          I would not purchase a Mr. Coffee without the above.
          Until Rossi starts acting like he is actually running a business instead of this cloak and dagger, cone of silence nonsense, do not expect the world to change amigo.

          • Omega Z

            Engineer48 has already had contact with Rossi.
            As to some arrangement to use the heat, that would require multiple discussions to see if it would fit the needs of the client. This is all going to take a while. And note, If I were the client, you wont see me going public in any way until after the testing has been concluded.

          • roseland67

            Omega,

            If you were the client, and you had none of the above specifications, would you put a 1 MW nuclear heat generating device in your plant?

            It’s rhetorical, please don’t answer
            Of course you wouldn’t.

          • Omega Z

            Lets explore why our discussion is pointless. You see, Once you get past the few majors in the business, everyone else is happenstance. There is no all inclusive directory. So if I’m aware of Rossi’s E-cat, it’s likely because I’ve been following the story all along or an acquaintance directed me to him.

            If I was an industrial client, i would obviously have been interested in new or upgrading equipment beforehand. I wouldn’t buy “ANY” heat producing system regardless of who manufactured it or how much info is provided on a website or brochure. I would be in contact with multiple manufacturers with multiple consultative meetings with all vendor’s of whom I have interest.

            Many reasons web or brochure info is mostly meaningless. Most products of this sort are custom built to suit or at the very least customized for individual needs. All I need to know is that you can provide heat in a certain range. Scaling/size etc are dealt with latter in consultations.

          • roseland67

            And put this piece of equipment in your plant with your employees?

          • psi2u2

            Well that question exactly shows how delicately Rossi or anyone else in this field has to finesse a path to stable success. This is not for the faint of heart. The earliest applications, assuming this unfolds according to Rossi’s hopes and plans, will be in highly selective and probably mostly very private if not secretive uses. That’s bad news for those of us wanting definitive proof that commercialization of LENR is actually happening. But it also seems kind of built into the situation.

          • Omega Z

            Why Not?

            Someone has to be 1st or no new technology would ever see the light of day.
            Besides, The most dangerous asset in an industrial setting is the Employees.

          • roseland67

            Omega,

            Goes into his presidents office.

            Boss, there is this great new invention called an Ecat that will be perfect for our heating process and save us a ton of money, we should get one.

            Great, I’m listening, how big is it?

            Uhm don’t know,

            Will our floor support it?

            Uhm don’t know

            Do we have enough electrical capacity in existing gear to run it?

            Uhm don’t know

            Is our existing water supply big enough to let it run?

            Uhm don’t know

            Any odd chemicals that require MSDS oversight?

            Uhm don’t know

            Is there any safety considerations we should implement to protect our employees?

            Uhm don’t know

            Well, what exactly do you know?

          • Omega Z

            Maybe the boss isn’t much of a businessman.

            When I was in business should someone point out an entity that produced a product that may fit my line of work, that was all I needed to know, I would immediately have said employee obtain contact information or locate it myself. I would follow up on the getting details to see if it suited my purposes.. It’s called being proactive. In a years time, I reduced weekly maintenance parts cost from $1000 to $500 and then to $120. I also reduced parts inventory by 75% because I no longer had to allow lead time for imported parts from Japan as the product was manufactured 150 miles away. If need be, I could send someone to get the parts same day.

            If a boss isn’t proactive, he can just wait until a competitor such as myself slowly drives him out of business. Shoot, I may even send him a thank you note for providing me already trained and skilled employees for my expanding business.
            That’s how the real world works…

          • psi2u2

            You think?

            Lol.

          • kenko1

            I wonder if the MFMP would be able to lease a plant? I would even donate some cash for that project.

          • Gerard McEk

            That’s why I said you should first ask for details when engineering for some application. With low temp steam you can’t generate electricity. Green houses would be a perfect fit and does not require a lot of engineering. I hope to find an interested farmer. I would volunteer for free engineering. Who would join?

          • psi2u2

            You make a lot of assumptions.

          • Steve Swatman

            ECAT 1MW Technical Specifications
            Thermal Output Power1 MWElectrical Input Power Peak200 kWElectrical input Power Average167 kWCOPMin 6Power Ranges250 kW-1 MWModules4Power per Module250kWWater Pump brandVariousWater Pump Pressure4 BarWater Pump Capacity1500 kg/hrWater Pump Ranges30-1500 kg/hrWater Input Temperature4-85 CWater Output Temperature85-120 CControl Box BrandLeonardo Corp.Controlling SoftwareLeonardo Corp.Recharge Frequency2/yearWarranty2 yearsEstimated Lifespan20 yearsDimension2.4ร—2.6x6mWeight10t
            All
            data provided above may be subject to change due to the ECATs rapid
            development. Technical specifications will continuously be updated when
            changes are made.

          • roseland67

            Steve,

            Physical size: does it fit is space?
            Weight: existing space capable?
            Electrical; Is there enough capacity?
            Water: is there enough capacity?
            MSDS: what are safety issues?
            UL label: Who would buy without?
            Shipping: DOT regulations?

            Engineer 48 appears to have enough of a background in electric power, fluid power and heat transfer that he could design the system, but he will not install anywhere until he KNOWS
            it’s safe and right now, no one KNOWS nothing.

            Just off the top of my balding pate.

  • Varmlandstok

    Would be perfect for my house.

  • interstellar hobo

    I was a network admin for wallpaper company that would through considerable expense keeping furnaces going to bake the paste onto the wallpaper at just the right temperature. heat-changed hot air would have done the trick. I could imagine, if this is real and not just another Rossi-thing, that’s another market that would jump at the chance to both lower their costs and get carbon credits.

  • Alain Samoun

    Is that for 1MW or can it be scaled up or down?

  • Anon2012_2014

    Depends on the COP. Organic combined Sterling/Rankine cycle can do at best 40% efficiency. Is the heat energy out over the electrical energy needed to stimulate the reactor more than 2.5x?

    Or can this be used as an efficiency booster to pre-heat the steam for a combined cycle natural gas plant, thereby boosting efficiency by 2.5x.

    Either way is interesting if we can actually show this works? Imagine a gas fired plant that uses only 40% of the carbon and natural gas. It would be cost revolutionary.

    Waiting for any evidence in the public domain.

  • Hi all

    One of the uses of low temp heat is creating diamonds using the BARS apparatus. I wonder from Rossi’s description of the industrial process he was engaged in whether that was what he was doing with the energy from the test plant.

    If so and he had a couple of dozen BARS machines producing diamonds worth around $2000 each every 48 hours for a year, how much money would he have made?

    Though recently around the time of the year long test the price of diamonds dropped precipitously due to the market being flooded ๐Ÿ˜‰

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BARS_apparatus

    HPHT devices are not too expensive. To buy or lease.

    Kind Regards Ian Walker

    • Omega Z

      Man made diamonds are not used in the jewelry industry. There only allowed for industrial use(tools/drills etc..) and R&D. Any expert can easily determine the difference. Man made are far more perfect. In fact can be flawless. If you took a ring to a jewelry store with a man made diamond setting, it would be considered counterfeit and worthless.

      • Hi all

        In reply to Omega Z

        Diamonds poduced using the HPHT method as well as the deposition method are true diamonds and increasingly indistinguishable from natural, to the point that Debeers have started to use laser etching and certification try and maintain there market. The reality is that artificialy created diamonds will soon replace diamonds dug out of the ground in the jewelry market as they already have in the industrial market, within five years there will not be a diamond mine left on the planet.

        Kind regards Ian Walker

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Andrea Rossi September 21, 2017 at 4:30 AM
    Toussaint Francois:
    Yes, the test is going very well.
    Thank you for the video,
    Warm Regards, A.R.

    Andrea Rossi September 21, 2017 at 4:29 AM
    Very close to Sigma 5.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

  • Jas

    Just so I understand correctly. The Ecat Heat energy that Leonardo Corporation are hoping to sell will be produced by the same Ecats from the Florida one year test? Not the new Quark X that is still under develpoment?

    • Frank Acland

      I believe AR has said that all plants from now on will be E-Cat QX ones

      • Jas

        He must be confident that he is close to being ready to begin manufacturing.
        You wouldn’t want to advertise a product that wasn’t finished. Perhaps the private demonstration was for the benefit of the investors for the manufacturing plant(s)? Then the public demonstration is basically the launch for the product to potential customers?

      • Agree.

        • Omega Z

          Hey Mats,

          I know you can’t give any details of any sorts and I wouldn’t ask any, but have you had any contact with the Lugano team?

  • nietsnie

    This could finally be when the rubber hits the road. Let’s see whether anyone buys his heat and, if so, how soon he actually provides it.

  • Steve Swatman

    But I am not the claiming Mr Rossi is scam artist of the very highest quality, I am not the one casting dispersions on Mr Rossi’s credibility without proof, I am not the one using lost arguments and fanciful claims to attempt to show Mr Rossi as a scam artist… I am simply saying that, should a customer buy heat from leonardo at a discounted price that would give the customer an edge in the market and show that the ecat actually works as claimed, oh and that the Report by Penon is quite acceptable to the customers, the market and the courts. would you deny that conclusion? and I am still wondering how much money Mr Rossi took from you and your family with his scam for you to be so vindictive.

    • Bruce__H

      Once again, if the having the court “accept” the Penon Report is meaningful to you, then the court accepting the Smith Report must be just as meaningful. But, mysteriously, it isn’t.

      I disagree with your piece of reasoning that runs .. “should a customer buy heat from leonardo at a discounted price that would give the customer an edge in the market and show that the ecat actually works as claimed…”. If Mr. Rossi were to produce heat by simple resistive heating and then selling it to people at a discount the customers would be just as satisfied. Obviously that would not show that the ecat works as claimed. Your argument is not logical.

      • Steve Swatman

        it is logical IF one isnt paid to create fault and come up with some sort of fanciful method of producing cheap heat in the long term, at lower than market prices, yet still covering costs for both Leonardo and the customer. Sounds like you are a paid shill Bruciebaby,

        If Rossi was using resistive heating which was capable of supplying customers with long term heat at highly discounted prices using his e-cat reactors, that would give the customer a market edge, and show that the e-cat produced cheap heat energy, which is the claim, Now if that was possible thousands of business would already be using such methods of heat supply, because the nature of business if to cut costs and increase profits by any method.

  • Omega Z

    The real test, If it produces excess heat of usable volume excluding chemical sources, It does not matter what Science has to say about it. Society can continue using it. It’s then up to Science to catch up.

  • CWatters

    By the time Rossi gets into production electricity from solar could well be cheaper. Subsidy free plant in Dubai now..

    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/dubai-to-get-solar-power-day-and-night-without-subsidy-at-lower-cost-than-gas-fired-electricity-646350733.html

    • Cool!
      But even though CSP apparently can provide electricity at low cost, the plants are big and they need a power grid for power distribution.
      What small LENR heat sources such as the QX would still be better at (if they are reliable) are mobile applications โ€“ cars, trucks, aircraft, ships etc. Also remote power generation where the grid doesn’t reach. And power generation for people wanting to cut the cord.

      • That’s understating it. I know it’s all the rage to say all energy sources must be integrated, but LENR is so radically superior that once it becomes an industry it will *eliminate* the other energy sectors.

        Sure it’ll take time but it’ll happen. It just needs 600,000 engineers working on it instead of 6.

        • Jimr

          You are correct, but 6000, 600 or 60 would help. He has stated he has a partner compony working with him now. I doubt it is a major or large company, (although I wish it were) I don,t believe they would associate due to his history.

          • Omega Z

            I’m all but 100% certain that in the shadows Rossi has some very knowledgeable theoretical and particle physicist helping him.

            ” I doubt it is a major or large company”
            No, not large but academically connected.

          • Jimr

            I believe you re once again correct. Some time ago he reported 2 techs, 2 engineers, and a PHD working for him. It’s possible he has members working part time, on call experts that he pays an hourly or per call rate, for assistance.

      • Alain Samoun

        Yes,actually that is where there is a large market: Solar providing electricity and small CF reactor providing heat. Hope that Rossi or/and Me… Will do it with their reactors.

      • Omega Z

        Imagine how cheap electricity would be from coal power if everyone in the coal and electric industry would work for less then $2 an hour. Especially if the Government would step in and cover half of that cost. We could possibly see a price less then 1/2 a cent per kilowatt.

      • Bjรถrn-Ola

        This is in Dubai, certainly not in Sweden and certainly not above the polar circle.

      • Thomas Kaminski

        I recently attended a talk by a large US rail freight company who is exploring rail electrification. Distances are so great in the US and the capital cost of catenary electrification so large that it is likely not to ever occur. A hybrid electric train engine using a compact power source like LENR might be the ideal solution. This particular company spends over 2 Billion $US per year on diesel fuel. They would like to cut that.

  • psi2u2

    searching is generally more productive than assuming.

  • Omega Z

    You misunderstood.

    Man made diamonds can exceed the quality of natural diamonds. They are with few exceptions supposed to be used for industrial purposes or R&D per an agreement worked out with the diamond industry(Basically De Beers group)

    A few years ago, the U.S.A.F. had half a dozen 3 inch diameter flawless diamonds specially made for research.(My guess is lasers)

  • Omega Z

    I don’t know, I haven’t checked it out for sometime.
    At 1 time, a 1MW plant would draw 260KW at startup and 160KW after coming to temp.

    Have you ever checked into some of the 10KW to 15KW CHP systems. They are lacking in many details as well. Usually it doesn’t give a breakdown as to how many Kilowatts to what end and they never give a price. However, Should you really be interested, give them your contact info and they will get back to you.

    They are not being deceptive in anyway. They’re just trying to determine if you are truly interested which is partly confirmed if you give them you particulars.
    Otherwise, you’re just curious and they haven’t time to bother with you…

  • Bruce__H

    But these specifications are not for the plant he is selling. Didn’t Rossi say that he had move the E-Cat name to the QuarkX? The specifications and the page you linked to is for the old E-Cats as you can see from the illustrations accompanying the specs. The page itself is from before the court case.

    Come to think of it the Penon report is for the old E-cats too. Why would Rossi put up the Penon report when he is advertising the new E-Cat which supposedly has a COP of 20,000 or something like that? One has nothing to do with the other — at least not according to Mr. Rossi’s descriptions.

    The whole thing is confusing.

  • Bruce__H

    All of the information on Rossi’s site is about the old E-Cat configuration such as used in Doral isn’t it? I don’t see any hint there that he intends to sell heat made by the newer E-Cat QX.

    If Frank Acland’s information is accurate that Rossi’s manufacturing from now on will be based on the QX, then Rossi;s entire website is outdated. Since it is my understanding from Rossi’s descriptions that the QX is physically quite different from the E-Cats deployed in Doral then the website information is not just outdated but totally irrelevant to future sales.

  • Steve Swatman

    ” It doesn’t. It doesn’t have to because they don’t produce excess heat.” Are you 100% sure about this? because I am pretty sure there were some independent scientists who ran a couple of tests and said that they did produce excess heat, and I am pretty sure Mr Darden and crew claimed excess heat to a lot of investors, oh and MR Penon also, and Mr Rossi, and, well, you know, there were quite a few people who were involved in the 1 year test, and none of them could show “no excess” claims as even remotely true, and let me add that as the people mentioned all had access to the actual E-cats, and heating plant, I for one, am more inclined to accept their claims than yours, who I am quite sure has never made a test on an e-cat (as did the independent scientists), never made an e-cat (as IH did), never seen one in real (as everyone involved in the tests and with Rossi for the last few years have done), never seen one operate in real (as did darden and co, the independent scientists and the crew working in Doral), and so have no basis for your constant claims of fraud and the impossible invention, You do shout about science, but disregard the scientists who have worked on and with actual e-cats, which is kinda hypocritical really, isnt it.

  • kenko1

    May I suggest that Leanardo Corp buy and retrofit a frozen french fry(aka chips) factory as a demo of how to retrofit a facility to use e-cats. Document the process a la’ Steorn documentary and include a visitor area were those interested can see a working facility and ask all the questions they desire. There will be heating and cooling issues that the e-cats could demonstrate. Plus a tidy profit from energy costs savings. And perhaps world domination of the frozen french fry industry!

    • Omega Z

      Are you suggesting Rossi should finance his technology by selling frozen french fry’s???

      If we’re going for unhealthy foods, just jump to deep fried Snicker bars. ooh Wait. Deep fried butter sticks. That’s the ticket, he he he

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Dr. Rossi refuses to say if he has signed any contracts for E-Cat heat

  • Bob Greenyer

    Heat supplied from these devices may be perfect to offset current use of gas for process heat in Canada’s tar sands.

    http://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/technical/mining/extraction

    The sands do not benefit from being raised above 50ยบC so the match is a good one.

    This should result in a significant reduction in CO2 emissions per unit of oil produced.

    • roseland67

      Bob,

      The applications are staggering in size and scope, just need an Ecat that produces “Energy Out > Energy In”
      And so far nada

      • Bob Greenyer

        That we can have confidence in, I agree.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Solar collector systems like this heat molten salts to several hundred degrees centigrade and this is stored in insulated tanks. Over night, this stored energy is used to produce steam which, via a turbine produces electricity.

    • cashmemorz

      Solar collection of excess is a plus if there is enough sun during the day to produce power needed during the day and then some excess to store. Depends on where the solar array is located. Most arrays would have to be located where the sky cover is minimal most of the time and also other factors for the location such as cheap land and reasonably close to the grid. Altogether, that sums up to few places that are that ideal so as to result in excess power for storage economically. That is why in populated areas (costly areas for land for array installation) and where there are few days with sufficiently low sky cover to add up to a cost-benefit that precludes installations on just any roof top. Its about location, location, location, as they say in real estate, so the same in solar power.

      • Bob Greenyer

        yes

  • sam

    Frank Acland
    September 22, 2017 at 6:28 AM
    Dear Andrea,

    Iโ€™m very glad to hear that the test went well. What can you tell us about the very important thing that happened, and what this means for the future of the E-Cat?

    Thank you very much,

    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi
    September 22, 2017 at 9:59 PM
    Frank Acland:
    What happened is under NDA, its relevance for the future is substantial.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Omega Z

    Now you got it.

    This web site is not even managed by Rossi. It was ported over from the Hydro Fusion website. It’s my opinion that the same individuals from Hydro Fusion are still maintaining the sites. It’s also my opinion that Hydro Fusion founders are some of Rossi/Leonardo silent partners.
    Hydro Fusion home
    http://hydrofusion.com/about-hydro-fusion

    1MW technical data
    http://hydrofusion.com/ecat-products/ecat-1-mw-plant/ecat-1-mw-technical-data

  • TVulgaris

    If you are selling a product, the ONLY proof is in the market. How long can Milo Minderbinder running on $11M (much of which is certainly spent by now) banked cash sustain operation selling heat at even a minimal loss, based on standard commercial power rates?
    The numbers are fairly easy to run….
    My point being, Rossi hasn’t been saying he’s trying to demonstrate any definitive proof of new physical principles, but “Here’s my working device. I think this is how it works, but that doesn’t really matter, because it DOES work to produce heat.”
    He already tried to present the “new physics” (several times now), but doesn’t have the rigor to hold his own in the scientific world. Your position is that this dictates he is wrong, therefore a fraud.
    He may be wrong (he has been before, but then modified his hypothetical framework several times- I seem to remember that’s how LOTS of research proceeds), but many of us DON’T conclude that mandates he is a fraud.

  • TVulgaris

    Wrong again.
    Science doesn’t SAY anything. Ever.
    People (pesky, fallible, opinionated, etc.) might eventually reach some consensus. Or not. If they base that on scientific activity, they might be less incorrect tomorrow than they are today, but they’ll continue to find out every day they’re incorrect…

  • Steve Swatman

    f
    Peer reviews are not as holy as you seem to think.. you only have to search the internet for “fake peer reviews to see the extent of the issue”

    The authors are not obliged to cater to the ignorance and critique of anyone, least of all amateur Internet armchair scientists.

    Rossi was not in fact around the whole time, and was not accessing the test the whole time either, your claim is incorrect. Rossi was there in the start and end of the test, under supervision.

    Given enough attempts to disprove anything, any one can fake a test result on the internet, did “paradigmnia” get his findings checked by real scientists in an independent test, and have that test peer reviewed? because, well, you know, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

    I think you may dug yourself and your opinions into a hole there. But hey, who knows, all of your opinions on this matter may be correct, of course you will have to get independent scientists and experts to review your opinions, and test your theory, then get it peer reviewed (otherwise it would by your standards be worthless) and hope that some smart mouth on the interent, doesn’t get a bee in his bonnet and start ripping your process’s to pieces along with his paid shills and group of PR desk jockeys, because, well, you know that is going to happen dont you.

  • LilyLover

    Dear Dr. Rossi is poised to become the richest, if he were to exercise greed. False pride of the aforementioned prevents them from wanting Rossi to become the modern saint. They are good but not good enough to support him to get ahead of everyone else.

  • sam

    JPR
    September 24, 2017 at 7:30 AM
    Update?

    Andrea Rossi
    September 24, 2017 at 8:07 AM
    JPR:
    We are pretty close to Sigma 5 now, but we have to improve minor issues out of the reactor.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Brett
    September 23, 2017 at 2:57 PM
    Dr Andrea Rossi,
    How much are the probabilities you will make the presentation of the Ecat QX before November 2017?

    Andrea Rossi
    September 23, 2017 at 4:12 PM
    Brett:
    The probabilities that we will present the E-Cat QX before the end of November 2017 are 100%.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Jas

      Does that mean its been pushed back a month or a misunderstanding of the question by Rossi?

      • Frank Acland

        Sounds to me like it has been moved to November.

        • Omega Z

          To be fair, Rossi hasn’t given a specific date. I would prefer a demo delayed by a couple weeks from what many expect then to be premature and half assed trying to hit a specific date/time.

          I believe many of MFMP’s demo/tests would have benefited greatly had they not tried so hard to hit a specific date and time. A few days delay allowing equipment to arrive and be properly vetted would have given better results. To be fair to Bob, it is hard to get everyone on page when most of these people have day jobs to schedule around.

          A few weeks ago I posted that I wouldn’t be surprised nor disappointed if Rossi’s demo slid into the 1st half of November. However, we still have 5 weeks and 2 days before November 1. There’s still plenty of time for Rossi to make the demo in October.

  • psi2u2

    I think Mats’ point is that there is plenty of room for all these technologies to make a significant contribution to a more secure energy future. We can see the microcosm for this in transportation fleets, which now feature at least four main modalities — gas, deisel, electric and hybrid. It is not like one future energy production tech will dominate our future, but that a mix of new sources including, hopefully, improved wind & solar, LENR, and various types of bio-fuel will all be used depending on their best applications. IMHO, the notion that improved solar is going to displace LENR is not credible unless LENR falls far short of its apparent potential.

  • Gerard McEk

    So the progress this week was not as expected despite the very positive comments Andrea gave. Now it seems the E-cat QX presentation is delayed for a month and, as far as I know, 5 sigma is not yet achieved:

    Brett
    September 23, 2017 at 2:57 PM
    Dr Andrea Rossi,
    How much are the probabilities you will make the presentation of the Ecat QX before November 2017?

    Andrea Rossi
    September 23, 2017 at 4:12 PM
    Brett:
    The probabilities that we will present the E-Cat QX before the end of November 2017 are 100%.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    Sebastian
    September 24, 2017 at 7:30 AM
    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    After the achievement of Sigma 5 and the presentation of the E-Cat QX in October or November 2017, which main target will have your further R&D?
    Sebastian

    I believe it is a very brave step that Andrea also wants to move to electricity production:

    Andrea Rossi
    September 24, 2017 at 8:10 AM
    Sebastian:
    With our Partner we will go for electricity production: I got a very good idea today for this issue.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    I wonder what Andrea’s idea is though….

  • kenko1

    What is the probability that there will NOT be a demonstration of any of Rossi’s contraptions in October or November? Answer: 5 sigma

    • Omega Z

      There will absolutely be a test. However, if you aren’t one of the very few in the inner circle, You wont know much more then you do now.

      incidentally, should Rossi actually put a product in the market, you still wont know much more then now. Any new tech is only understood at a gradual pace.

      • kenko1

        I’ve been following this saga 10+ years if you include Steorn. Now thats gradual ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Miles

      This is followed on my 5 Delta with another 5 year testing process. :p

  • Steve Swatman

    all your wondering is just critique for the sake of critique, I am guessing you are paid to put down Mr rossi and his potential invention, YOu claim science yet close your eyes when science shows excess heat, you claim That your opinion without personal experience gives you the right to criticise, even though you have no experience with the E-cat, you claim others who you do not know and have no personal experience are better informed that the Luganos scientists and Rossi, where is the science you speak of?

    You would think many things about things, however you only think and voice criticism, about something of which you have no experience at all, just the opinions of others who have not experimented in the field at all. Science you say!

    Why would I be required to watch a man who has used only one of Mr Rossi’s tools,and concentrate solely on on the possibly errors caused by one tools, TALK ABOUT CHERRY PICKING… lol.

    • Bruce__H

      “Why would I be required to watch a man who has used only one of Mr Rossi’s tools,and concentrate solely on on the possibly errors caused by one tools”

      Because it was the main tool used by the Lugano authors in their preprint. You are the one who brought up that paper.

      • Steve Swatman

        Ah! but YOU are the one spending your time shouting science, science! wanting science on one hand and dismissing science on the other, YOU are the one been prolific in your criticism, yet all you can pull out is one man’s video, that has not been peer reviewed, not been independently verified and is not from a expert in the field. Yet you claim Mr Rossi must have all of that and more, or he is a fraud and scam, a rogue trader in fake science and fake heat production, and still after all this time the only “proof” you have is one mans “none expert, none scientific” video… well ok, carry regardless I guess. ๐Ÿ˜‰ now you have a good day, and try to play fair.

  • LilyLover

    “ABB buys GE business for $2.6 billion in bet it can boost margins”

    Does that foretell their confidence in Dr. Rossi??

    • Omega Z

      GE has been having a fire sale every since the 08 economic melt down. They’ve been cutting production personnel to reduce costs(suffering lost sales) while increasing white collar management. Their the next Sears.

      In the early 90’s, Caterpillar tractor started down this path, but woke up in time to turn it around. Someone figured out that most white collar office people produce nothing and takes away from income while blue collar makes saleable product(income). Cat had 3 white collar for every 2 blue collar. They reversed those numbers going from red to black and never looked back.

      GE has become the American way. Three well paid do nothings and 1 under paid worker. It is why education and medical care cost so much. In education, only 1 in 7 employees is a teacher with similar ratio’s in medical care. You can bet one of the main reasons Amazon can compete against brick and mortar even with high shipping costs is they have a low management ratio verses working employees.

      • cashmemorz

        Another place I worked at, Massey-Ferguson(MF), later White Industries. MF went belly up, because of over extending themselves by investing too long term in their suppliers. They seemed to want to ensure their future competitiveness by corralling everyone involved with them for the far future with a low price for everything from the suppliers. That way they hoped to be super economical. No one can guarantee anything that way for very long. Their steel suppliers got in trouble, then the whole chain started to unravel. Like the individuals who borrow on one credit card beyond their means to pay off that by a second card and then the same with a third card and so on until one card starts to carry more debt than is ever possible. Something like perpetual motion. Is there anything like that in what LENR is attempting to achieve?

    • ABB, which is based in Zurich, can use the deal to broaden its electrification business globally, especially in North America. The unit it is buying, GE Industrial Solutions, provides circuit breakers, transformers and power systems equipment for industrial operations like data centers and oil or gas installations.

      Hmm. That is a juicy coincidence. If it is a coincidence.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/business/dealbook/general-electric-abb.html

    • Eyedoc

      Please remind me if we know …..Does ABB have any affiliation or prior contact with A Rossi ?

  • Steve Swatman

    Perhaps they ” the lugano scientists” do not feel the need to feed critics and shills.

    And I personally feel it would be irresponsible for the Lugano guys to review their own work, that would just feed the critics and shills, what a field day they would all have at that.

    Anyways, back to waiting and enjoying the show, now if only those guys on the back row could quit shouting out negative comments and ruining the fun, we would all welcome it.

  • roseland67

    Flo,

    Always been partial to EEstor in the “Non invention” category,

  • Omega Z

    Yes, Put in an entirely new electrical service a few years ago. It was Siemens hands down. Much better quality and even priced cheaper.

    About 2 years ago, GE moved production from a northern state plant with wages of $15/$20 an hour to a newly built southern state plant with a $7 minimum wage. Within the same article it said they were adding about 100 people to their management team. ???

    In the 70’s, I worked for a manufacturer that had a great disdain for management looked upon as a necessary evil. They had a total of 6 management personnel(Including 1 secretary) for a 160 working employees. An unheard of ratio. Unfortunately due to a major recession, they closed down. But they gave all the employees a months severance pay for every year of working there. Management received 1 month severance pay period regardless of time employed by them with 2 exceptions who had stared out from the bottom. They had respect for the laborer. A rarity today.