Rossi: New Partner has Some Degree of Control

We’ve been here before. Back in 2012 Andrea Rossi started referring to a new partner with whom he had entered into an agreement to help develop his E-Cat technology. Eventually we discovered that this partner was Cherokee/Industrial Heat, and we know how that all turned out.

After extricating himself from that relationship after the long and costly court battle it seems that there is now a new partner on the scene. Once again, Rossi will not disclose who the partner is, but it seems that it is an entity that can help Rossi with the commercialization of the E-Cat. I don’t know for sure, but I suspect, that the “important test” that took place last week was some kind of validation test. Rossi has stated that the goal for Sigma 5 is both a milestone for himself and his partner.

Here is a Q&A about this topic from the Journal of Nuclear Physics today:

Patrick Ellul
September 28, 2017 at 2:53 AM
Dear Andrea,
It seems like you’re again losing some degree of control over your product, when you say “This issue does not depend on me.”
Is this because of your new partner/s?
Best regards
Patrick

Andrea Rossi
September 28, 2017 at 6:43 AM
Patrick Ellul:
Yes.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Rossi’s quote “this issue does not depend on me” that Patrick Ellul is referring to came from a question on the JONP yesterday when someone asked whether mainstream media outlets were going to be invited to the planned demonstration.

I think it’s obvious that Rossi is going to need partners to help him financially if he wants to reach his goal of mass production of E-Cats. And in that case, Rossi is going to have to give up some control. One would hope that any contracts he has made will be more advantageous to him than the one he made with Industrial Heat. In my latest interview with him he did admit that he had been naive when signing that contract, and that now he has a legal team that is experienced enough to help him not make that kind of mistake again.

  • Jag Kaurah

    Hope the new partner speeds up commercialization

  • Jimr

    This may be great. Maybe the new partner is more familiar with R&D of a new product, they may even control some of Rossi’s overly optimistic comments.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi now controls much of his overly optimistic comments. He posted quite some time ago that his optimism often caused him problems, thus his often vague answers we see today.

      My personal opinion is that it is not Rossi’s fault. It’s that a-hole Murphy that always throws a wrench into the gears. Should we ever catch Murphy’s law we should show him the law and lock him up for life. It would make life so much easier. 🙂

  • SDH harrison

    I’ll make my prediction: The partner is ABB Group. It is a Swedish-Swiss founded group, forward thinking, and has exactly what Rossi needs on many levels. Their cost of partnership: High end robots, high end technological and manufacturing expertise.

    Take a look at the Wiki article on this company, including their work outside of robotics including power grids and solar power related technology:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABB_Group

    • Warthog

      Not just solar. Also fission, though they sold off that business a few years ago.

    • Bruce Williams

      It went through my mind before reading your note that it could be ABB. Maybe Mats can find out ?

      • Frank Acland

        Whoever it is, I am sure NDAs are in place until the time comes to go public.

  • Frank Acland

    Pietro F.
    September 28, 2017 at 2:00 AM
    Il raggiungimento di Sigma 5 significherà riproducibilità del fenomeno al 100%?
    Achieving Sigma 5 will mean 100% reproducibility of the phenomenon?

    Buon lavoro.

    Pietro F.

    Andrea Rossi
    September 28, 2017 at 6:47 AM
    Pietro F.:
    Yes, but also it is related to the reliability of the prototypes.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Before a partner is going to be willing to back the E-Cat they are going to want to be sure that the prototypes meet acceptable performance. That’s why I think Sigma 5 is important for the new partner — they will back him once the performance proves to be acceptable.

    • Omega Z

      Andrea posted a while back that the Demo didn’t depend on Sigma 5 even tho he now says he will likely achieve that before the demo.
      However, a Sigma 5 would be a necessity before any serious production even at a prototype heating systems is built for a partner to go forward. There is to much at stake considering competitors are waiting to reverse engineer his QX’s. A false start on Rossi’s part could easily cost him any lead advantage.

    • roseland67

      Frank,
      I think if ask 20 members here what
      5 sigma means as it pertains to the Ecat, you’ll get 20 different answers.

      What is important now as ever, is the only thing that was ever important:
      Is Energy Out > Energy In?

      • Frank Acland

        Of course. That’s why I’m here.

      • Omega Z

        I don’t care if it’s COP=1000 if it only works intermittently. Sigma 5 is very important or its pretty much useless and will remain a lab novelty.

  • Bruce__H

    Wasn’t there some sort of partnership announced in 2016 having to do with neighbourhood heating in Europe? It was said to be put on the back burner until the Rossi/IH suit was resolved. So maybe this is it.

  • Bruce__H

    It is difficult to trust Rossi on the subject of partners and customers. In sworn testimony during the discovery phase of the recent trial Rossi admitted that claims he had made on his blog about new customers were untrue.

  • Ophelia Rump

    This event sounds more and more unimpressive with each passing update.

    I hope the world will get to witness a moment of transformation before the new fire is consigned to corporate bunkers for eternity.

    Will humanity be perpetually enslaved by energy masters, will there ever be enough for everyone?

    • Omega Z

      “will there ever be enough for everyone?”

      In the year 2100… We will have built a system to provide for 9 billion people and the population will have declined to about 6 billion. All sounds good, but there is going to be some major demographics issues between then and now. To many older people verses younger.

      I’ve posted in the past that China’s population would peak around 2050, it is now projected to decline by about 40 million by then. Fact is, Africa is now the only real outlier and people like Bill Gates along with Governments are working on that. World population is making the turnaround faster then previously projected.

      So, When people of authority talk about populations of 10/12 billion in the future, There’s 3 possibilities. They are using very old data, have an agenda or are trying to keep the pressure on to see that current trends continue, which I guess is an agenda. OK. SO there’s 2 possibilities. he he he.

      P.S.
      The energy masters will still be with us. Do you need you QX replaced yet???

      • Ophelia Rump

        That is cute, you still believe the technology will reach the end user, prepare to feed the meter.

        • Omega Z

          Did you miss my P.S.
          The energy masters will still be with us. Do you need you QX replaced yet???

          I actually find the shaking off of the shackles as silly. We all need each other for our life needs. No one can produce everything himself. I’ve gone round and round with George (used to be from Hants), but I actually agree with some of his sentiments. I just disagree with blaming the system and how to change it. The real issue is peoples mentality and I have no clue how to change that other then maybe in time that may change.

          As to the meter. I find that extremely probable, but not for the reasons you may think. Energy at such a small scale is problematic and expensive. A localized grid is more feasible and cheaper then you and I could ever provide ourselves. And it’s very convenient. People want there convenience. Flip a switch and the power is on or off instantly without any lag time.

          And No One likes waiting on the Maytag repairman. Imagine waiting a week for repair/maintenance. Do you know how many people by new computers because of the backlog of computer repair?

          • cashmemorz

            Many people live in apartments, hotels, condominiums, retirement homes, nursing homes. Those won’t be able to use their own LENR system. If those do want cheap power and put in a device, their meter won’t turn and the landlord will get suspicious. LENR in those kinds of places will only be for supplemental power. So about half of living spaces will still be on grid. Also those who can afford the grid anyways or just want the convenience will stay on the grid. LENR is for hard to reach places and for the adventurous, who want to be more independent. Like campers, RV’s, mobile homes. Mainly power supplier and businesses that need to do that. The full LENR market is not so revolutionary.

          • Warthog

            “Many people live in apartments, hotels, condominiums, retirement homes,
            nursing homes. Those won’t be able to use their own LENR system.

            Many, many condo/apartment complexes have their own co-gen systems these days. The provision of both HVAC and electric power gives MUCH higher energy efficiency (and lower costs). LENR systems will simply replace the generator fuel source. Do you not recall that one of the original proposed applications for the low-temp E-Cat was “district heating”?

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      When every roof will have Elon Musk’s solar shingles. (:

  • Gerard McEk

    After Andrea broke with IH, he soon had a new partner. Not long after that he started taking about sigma 5. I am sure that the partner (and I agree with the suggestion below that it may be ABB) demanded high reliability and proof of high COP. The latter was last week I guess and I think Andrea hoped that the partner would jump in based on what has been demonstrated (although sigma 5 was not reached yet). That did not happen and I think some minor details forced him to postpone the demonstration for a maximum of one month. Let us all hope that the partner can be trusted and that Andrea thrusts them and that they decide to go along with Andrea soon.

    • Jimr

      I hope ypu are correct with his new partner,however minor problems toward the end of development can drag on for some time. I do hope his partner will force Rossi to be quiet and take away his keyboards during this period. The same goes for Trump.

      • Omega Z

        Perhaps there is a method to his madness.
        Through back channels,(North Korea’s) Kim is frantic to get a handle on Trump. Kim is used to rattling his sabre and the world leaders falling all over themselves to appease him.

    • Omega Z

      Trust can be easy to achieve. To verify that trust is hard.

  • Omega Z

    Actually IH/Darden is the epitome of Venture Capital.

    Venture Capitalist- PARC, a Xerox company(Of copier fame)
    There’s a story of great similarity of Rossi/Darden where all I would need to do is switch Dardens name with PARC and Rossi’s name with the particular individuals it involved and everyone would think it was all about Rossi/Darden.

    They were doing outside research, filing patents and sharing info with the guys competitors(Major players). The guy required full time lawyers to get and keep control of the situation and that costs a lot of money that he could have been spending on his own R&D. The guy was never able to prove the sharing of info, but his competitors shaved years off the R&D gap with him. It’s sad we live in such a world.

  • SG

    But most of what he has said in the past eventually was revealed to be backed by at least some reality. My best guess is that there is a new partner, there is a QuarkX product (or at least prototype), and there are plans for eventually moving to mass manufacturing.

  • Omega Z

    It discredits IH/Darden. The evidence exists that they “WERE” doing things behind his back and working with his competitors.

  • Omega Z

    Why would depopulation be a problem. A few billion less people would be of great benefit. Even the current population isn’t sustainable long term. Also, technologically, a minimum population can be set/determined and maintained and can be modified according to life span whether that life span decreases or increases.

    • LarryJ

      If people can easily live anywhere and not be confined to cities then there is no lack of space for people. Most of the dry land is empty and technology will also allow floating towns or cities on the oceans. Advanced energy techs like Rossi’s, advanced communications, transportation, farming in skyscrapers, factory grown meat etc etc will greatly reduce our demand for arable land and concentrated infrastructure. This will spread people out in a non disruptive way and allow a much larger population with less impact on the environment than we see now. History shows that population growth is inversely proportional to prosperity so being on the cusp of a cheap energy age as we appear to be means we are probably close to our max population now unless life spans increase dramatically which they likely will.

      • Omega Z

        Not certain of your point, but. Population decline is a fact. I was merely pointing out that we have the means to maintain a minimum population through technology with some incentives.

        As to population spreading. First, people gravitate to large cities. We(Not ME) want a million people around us, yet complain it’s crowded, crime is high and the noise being unbearable. We are the intelligent species?

        Spreading out is also problematic. It reduces farmland and food production. Where I live, each acre produces enough each year to feed over 20 people. A million acres of housing eliminates food for over 20 million people. Nobody makes farm land anymore. Or as the saying goes. Invest in land. Nobody makes it anymore.

        We also crowd out nature and the species we share this world with. I’m not an environmental tree hugging fanatic, but I believe we need to be responsible in what we do.

        What many don’t want to hear and believe, resources are limited. If not today, then for generations that follow. While nature can replenish some resources, we should not be so fool hardy as to exceed the minimum that nature can provide.

        “population growth in a country is inversely proportional to the prosperity”

        Sciences are inversely proportional to the prosperity of society. Populations beyond a certain point become a burden. Not an asset. Especially as life spans increase, but with lower productivity and quality of life. Visit a nursing home and ask yourself, just because we can extend life through technology, Should we. Much of what you’ll see would be considered extreme torture in many cases. What takes place in these institutions must be so degrading and horrifying for the patients. Probably worse then death. And it likely has a serious impact on the mentality of the care givers and leads to abuse. Sad.

  • f sedei

    Relax folks The Quark X is coming. Fleischmann and Pons’ scientific cold fusion breakthrough after 25 years in the grave unjustifiably, is being reincarnated by Andrea Rossi. It’s too easy to chastise Andrea for seemingly dragging his feet and leading us on regarding bringing his invention to fruition in the market place. He has already accomplished what none others have done, and many others are attempting to replicate. Who else can claim they ran a factory for 12 months on a similar invention? It’s difficult to believe he is fabricating a scheme after winning in court the Industrial Heat fiasco and gaining millions of dollars profit. Our patience may understandably be waning because we are anxious he is successful in possibly one of the greatest scientific discoveries for mankind…ever. Our patience may run thin, but Rossi continues to persevere with confidence. That trait is just one sign of a great man, for which Andrea is sure to be recognized. Have faith!

    • Hear hear!!!

    • kenko1

      Nothing was won in court. Both parties settled before a trial.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Rossi signed a contract giving IH his IP and patents. Rossi won back those patents and his IP.

        • Karl Venter

          Hi Bernie
          Did he not sue for 89 million?

          • Omega Z

            Rossi recovered 100%(in a legal sense) of his IP and also retained and recovered all E-cat hardware as well as keeping the $11.5 million that IH/Darden had paid him.

            in a legal sense- as in People can’t forget or unlearn what they have in memory.

      • LarryJ

        When Rossi went into court he had IH’s $11 million and the licence for Europe.

        When he came out of court he still had IH’s $11 million and the licence for Europe plus the licences for North America, South America, China and Russia plus his IP plus the 1 MW one year test reactor that IH built and owned.

        Sounds like a win to me and a big one at that.

        • kenko1

          Of which all is under NDA. We don’t really know anything .

          • LarryJ

            Neither the court documents or the final settlement agreement with IH were under NDA. We also know that the ERV’s report confirmed the tech works. Whether people choose to believe it or not is up to them. We actually know much more now than before the trial.

          • kenko1

            I must have missed that final settlement agreement.. Do you have a link to it? Or a copy. TIA. IIRC, The jury had been selected and seated. They(judge,jury,plaintiffs&defendants et al ) were at the courtroom ready to begin the next day when the lawyers informed the judge that an agreement had been reached and poof! jury dissmissed, case over. NEXT case.

          • LarryJ

            Several members of the jury begged off on the first day of the trial because of its expected length and the court did not have enough replacements on hand so they had to redo the jury selection the next day and they selected an extra 3 jurors just in case. The trial ran 3 days and a settlement was reached on the third day.

            My guess is that IH’s team wanted to see if Rossi was actually going to fight this out and when it became apparent that he was then the IH team knew they had an uphill battle. They would have to discredit Penon the ERV because the contract clearly stated that Penon would judge the success or failure of the one year test. Penon is a highly credible nuclear physicist who’s day job was certifying nuclear reactors. They threw in the towel and gave Rossi back everything. Darden left with his pockets empty but he did manage to worm his way out of what could have been a very expensive lawsuit.

            I think Darden is a money man and not an industrialist. He had no intention of building reactors. What he wanted was to sell paper and he sold quite a lot during the test. The contract was written such that if the test failed they would not have to pay the 89 million and they would get to keep the IP so why pay. At one point after the one year test Rossi said on his blog that during the test they offered to pay him to cancel it.

            Here is the link to the settlement agreement

            https://animpossibleinvention.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/settlement-agreement.pdf

    • Karl Venter

      “Relax folks The Quark X is coming” — so is Christmas — some of us have been relaxing/having faith for a few years now were a bit full of relaxing and faith is dwindling — seem no proof is available / verification is a bit thin
      Company is a secret
      If he has what he says — he has and he has patents why not shout it from the top of mountains so everybody can see

      Did he not sue them for 89 million and only got his patents back – thats not winning thats losing 89 million
      I believe the 1MW plant was also coming and from a demonstartion/pilot plant point of view it was a disaster – it definitely was not a proof of concept plant
      Maybe this December when he sits at his Quark x he will have another vision about whats next and we will wait another year
      I told all about Rossi and now all ask me how Rossi doing – my answer was — he is having issues — now its I am pinning ,my hopes on MFMP

      Well I am still here so maybe there is a flicker of hope but its only little flicker

      • Omega Z

        Like everyone else who has what they say they have.
        Shouting from the mountain tops before having a product ready for market is a waste of time. Others get mention in articles in the MSM just as Rossi has, but no one pays much attention until their product becomes an actual product on the market. It’s not a reality until then.

        MSM announces human field trials for a cure for cancer.
        Public be like cool. Any one up for a Lady GAGA concert or a Netflix and Chill?

    • Jimr

      ” He has already accomplished what none others have done” How do we know this? How advanced is a company such as Mitsubishi with LENR, or any of a multitude of companies. Most companies do not annouce thier R&D progress.

  • sam

    Question of the Day …
    Re: September 21 … “Yes. It has been great, but with necessity of some improvements.”

    Q1: Will the improvements be completed before the presentation?
    Q2: Are the improvements for 1) Manufacturing; 2) Functionality; 3) Sigma 5; 4) All of the above.
    Q3: Your partner expresses interest in making electricity. Will this be directly from the 1) QuarkX or using the 2) Carnot cycle?

    Looking forward very much to your upcoming presentation.

    Tom

    ps: I hope your partner is ABB, it would be exciting.

    Andrea Rossi
    September 29, 2017 at 2:28 PM
    Tom Conover:
    Thank you for your insight.
    Answers:
    1- yes
    2- 4
    3- both plus something new
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

  • US_Citizen71

    I believe that he is stating one cubic centimeter of E-Cat QX can produce 30W of heat. So if run for an hour it would produce 30 watt hours of heat energy. If what Rossi states about longevity then it could continue to produce that 30 watts of heat continuously for 6-12 months. So total energy produced before exhausting the fuel is between 129,600 watt hours and 262,800 watt hours.

    For comparison one cubic centimeter of coal can produce approximately 10 watt hours of heat before being exhausted.

    I don’t burn coal but if it behaves anything like charcoal one cubic centimeter will burn up in less than hour my guess would be in 10-20 minutes. So for heat density I would assume it is some what on parity with burning coal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

    • Buck

      Rossi confirmed today that the fuel will last 1 year. Therefore 262,800 watt hours is the better estimate.

  • Omega Z

    Oh orsobubu,

    I am not concerned with you and your little friends fantasy of a socialist utopia. As long as it involves more then 1 person, such a system begins to decay and die. It will never happen.

    I know that the moment you replace capitalism with your socialist system that all that wealth you’re fixated on and intend to redistribute disappears like so much vaporware. You”ll look for it for a while but ultimately determine those greedy elite must have buried it in some secret underground bunker or such. Those bast’ds…

    This is all reminiscent of people who envy winners and when a winner appears they try and tear them down. Once you’ve dispatched all the winners all you have left is a bunch of, whats the word. Oh yeah. Losers.