E-Cat QX Demo Pre-Game Thread

We only have two days to go until the long-awaited presentation of Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat QX reactor, and there is considerable expectation ahead of the event.

From Andrea Rossi and others we know that the event is going to take place, and that a presentation will happen, but very few further details have been provided. Andrea Rossi has stated that the protocols of the test will only be revealed at the beginning of the test itself, so we have to wait until the 24th for that.


This thread is just to be a gathering place as we get ready for show. It’s Thanksgiving holiday time in the United States where traditionally people watch football games; this is going to be a lot more interesting to me than any sports event, and thought it would be useful to put up a pre-game thread, for general discussion which will be replaced by coverage of the real event kicks off.




  • I am hopeful but dubious. I wouldn’t be surprised by a sudden last-minute postponement.

    • I too am hopeful.

      • New Scientist will represent mainstream media and Rothschild Cabal. They prefer a world of limited energy. Unlimited energy for every village in Middle East and Africa is not good for “control of the global masses”.

        • georgehants

          Morning Bill, good to meet you.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          The places you mentioned already have unlimited energy: the sun. Different here up north.

          • georgehants

            Unfortunately most of the villages do not have the money to utilise that resource without help.

  • hunfgerh

    Since the demonstration of P @ F in 1989, we have been dealing with the question:
    how is it possible that the presented electrolysis system gives off more energy than
    it absorbs? This question has not been clarified until today.

    At the demonstration of the E-Cat QX on Nov. 24, 2017, after evaluating the
    measurement results – expected result COP> 1 – the question will flare up

    Without a conclusive answer to the question, the echo will also be negative here.

    Some readers believe that the result is more important than an explanation.
    This opinion can be upheld if – construction, materials and operating conditions – are
    disclosed so that a layman can check it. Incidentally, this opinion is also expressed by
    the Patent Office.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Can be explained by David Hudson, Kenneth Shoulders and Stanislav Adamenko’s research. Studying these can answer all your questions, explain all the ‘anomalies’. All have secured patents, though only Adamenko has current granted patent.

      Perhaps I will do a brief summary for folks.

      • AdrianAshfield

        Bob, It seems to me that there are many explanations, the problem is not one is yet definitive and accepted. I believe Rossi said he would be giving his latest theory during the demo

        While I think this demo will provide proof and good data on the characteristics of the E-Cat QX, history suggests it will be ignored by academia and the pres until there are working models for sale.

        • I fear you are right, Adrian, at least for the academic aristocracy. Perhaps some of the braver media might report it.

          But that could partly be because the timing of the event is none too smart. Firstly, as Frank has mentioned, the US media will have plenty of the distractions of the Thanksgiving holiday to feed itself on. The more scholarly media might happen to remember that, on November the 24th, 1859, Charles Darwin’s treatise on Evolution was published. In fact, November the 24th is officially recognised as “Evolution Day”.

          OK, the “Rossi Revelation” could be spun as potentially upsetting the world’s long-held beliefs that “cold fusion is an illusion” as was Darwin’s Theory about the Origin of Species in upsetting the world’s long held beliefs in the Biblical Creation but that would be too complicated for most, I’d say.

          My PR campaign would include something like Al Gore being given a heat-only E-Cat to warm one of his smaller swimming pools. Don’t worry, the jet fuel-burning high priest of Climate Change still hasn’t quite got the joke and neither have most Americans.

        • hunfgerh

          hunfgerh, Rossi would be very foolish to provide details so anyone could make one. I don’t think he is foolish.

          I have other experiences with the Patent Office and the Patent Court.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I agree on need for working models for sale, and as I understand things now, there will likely be very significant regulatory barriers for real or vested interest reasons.

          It’s not my theory, but the consistency between our observations and those of Adamenko and Shoulders points to a process that is a superset of Cincinnati group, Takahashi, Peery, Little, Piantelli, Mizuno etc. and explains ‘crack’, liquid, plasma, sono-fusion, LeClaire etc. etc. It does not matter if it is transition metal cluster or chemical structure. In fact, I do not know of an experiment or observation or apparatus design failure mode that cannot be explained by Charge Clusters / Ectons and the ‘new kinds of radiation’ they emit.

          The results of LION, Piantelli, Celani, Rossi, Ralkar, Parkhomov, me356, Hutchison etc. etc. are all consistent, contingent on their environment. If the environment is hydrogen isotopes and ‘gentle’ with few other elements in play, then you appear to get more stepwise ‘Piantelli’ like reactions. If the environment is extreme or built up over a long period without relief, you get broad or bulk transmutation and potential release of ‘strange radiation’ which can transport, transmute and disrupt material to or at a distance. Instability of CCs can lead to production of various kinds of standard radiation – and therefore control must be maintained. Super CCs can lead to super-heavy elements and if made unstable, radioactive isotopes. Moreover, at the extreme end, they may not easily be self-quenching – or putting it another way, they may self maintain / sustain for some time.

          Because of the nature of CCs and Strange Radiation, material in apparatus must be carefully matched to the operation parameters. It must be good at withstanding high temperatures and maintain dielectric nature/not conduct. My preference is Boron Nitride as suggested by us many moons ago and used by Parkhomov and Silver as CC collectors as suggested in my Mumbai presentation due to it being the highest conductivity.

          Effects/results of CCs and Strange Radiation will include

          – Transmutation
          – Glowing without extra heat
          – Softening of metals, even at room temperature
          – Direct ‘production’ of electricity
          – Weight change
          – Propulsion
          – Disruption or catastrophic failure of containment
          – Damage to physical or electrical items that are not connected with apparatus
          – Transportation of materials
          – Penetration of materials
          – boring through of insulators
          – Rapid oxidation if ‘charged’ and exposed to air or surface transmutation driven by air constituents
          – Production of self supported ball lightning in either light or dark mode
          – Neutralisation of radioactive isotopes

          It makes sense to have a small power unit so as not to build up the CCs to uncontrollable levels where all the weird and destructive things manifest themselves. Pons & Fleischmann saw this in their 1cc Pd D ‘singularity’ – Rossi almost certainly will have see many if not all the effects above.

          If Rossi has found a materials and controls system to tames this beast – then I will be very happy.

          • Bob, this Charge Cluster stuff is both VERY exciting and VERY scary and, for me, at least, very new. I’ve only just started to digest your set of RedPill (01, 02, 03) videos, together with this article from Infinite Energy:


            – so I, and surely most readers am in catchup mode regarding CC’s, aka EVO’s (but, also, what is this “Strange Radiation”?).

            Anyway, are you saying that you hope Rossi has, indeed, tamed this “beast” because, if he hasn’t, there are very serious dangers. I believe you have already used the “Catch 22” metaphor in the EVO context and I presume it means that, if the scientific community does, at last, concede that the E-Cat works, it must also immediately concede that there are too many dangers from our very incomplete knowledge of EVO’s and that the E-Cat and all related devices must be banned until we know and understand a lot more about this whole bizarre but exciting field.

            Is that what you are saying?

          • Bob Greenyer

            I am saying that creation makes and breaks this way. We are here because of this process and as the ball goes up, it comes down, so this process, being a bridge, can make and unmake. With great power, comes great responsibility, Rossi clearly gets this.

            I have said for many months since I realised it’s true nature, that one must give and take and treat this with the utmost respect. It gives access to the ultimate power – I have also said that I fully understand why this has been suppressed for so long, but, since it is clear that it is already weaponised and has been used for the worst kind of heinous acts, it should be acknowledged because it will be the ultimate leveller. No defence or weapon currently widely deployed can defend against this – wars would be pointless.

            It has the power to solve the worlds problems and destroy it. Only by applying it gently can it be made useful and I think that Rossi is demonstrating this with what seems, at first, to be a really conservative modular approach. The iteration down to 20W, shows me his maturity in understanding, not unlike Mitchel Swartz NANOR, though IMPO the latter is working with the base level of CC. If you have too much material in one place, you simply cannot control it due to the laws of distribution, at some point something catastrophic will occur. IMPO tales of Molybdenum reaching its ‘melting point’ and failing in BLP tests are examples of not accepting or recognising that CCs and their offspring disrupt metals, in that case, softening them.

            People, including myself, have been thinking about things all the wrong way for the past century, both on the funding side and the technical side. We have been constantly applying known knowns or rather things we think we know, rather than seeing what is there and asking what really happened that way.

            Nature does tame this, it is possible, but it is a HUGE challenge. In Hutchison experiments you can literally see the plasma effects as soon as the field interference that creates the CCs is switched off. If the CCs build up too much – you see transmutation and several modes of molecular, lattice and sub-atomic disruption. In Pons and Fleischmanns 1CC Pd D ‘Singularity’ they effectively did the same thing leading to the destruction of their apparatus, the fume cupboard and ‘dustification’ of a large amount of concrete and aggregate. But because it is working with nature and nature hates instability, the most likely products are the stable ones.

            The Russians call this ‘Cold Nuclear Transmutation and Ball Lightning’ for a reason.

            As I have said before, it is my belief that Rossi will have seen ball lightning in his experiments – and this is one thing that his co-worker might have witnessed that would have lead him to say “I have seen things you people wouldn’t believe”


            The good thing is that, because of the work of Shoulders and Hutchison, most of this is not patentable.


          • – Thanks Bob. There is obviously a huge amount to read and think about here and we’ll all need time to do that. At the very least, it has added many more dimensions to the many already there and made the Rossi demo all the more into a “not-to-be-missed” event.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Hi Philip,

            Here is another related thread where evidence is piling up.

            US Tesla enthusiast transmits large amounts of power safely over hair-thin wires.


            This is similar to the Soviet era scientists that secured a patent in 1985 and were visited by representatives of Tom Bearden in early 1990s as discussed in a previous steemit blog.


            Here, in a 2015 video, they show transmission of 25kW over a single 8um wire – using the wire as a clustered electron wave guide.


          • georgehants

            Wonderful, keep it coming Bob.

      • hunfgerh

        Perhaps I will do a brief summary for folks.

        Please do it.

        • hunfgerh

          If you do it, please quote all the theories and patents related to this topic.
          Folk can then choose what they like.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I think the best thing people can do is cross correlate Adamekos 750+ page book and Shoulders work. I will quote patents, but they are easily found. Hutchison never patented, Shoulders admitted that, later in life, he deliberately published in his own way to prevent patenting.

            Shoulders and Adamenko’s work is based on many decades of experimental observations – Shoulders specifically was not interested in theory, he was a “if I do this, this happens”, Adamenko does very much have a theory, and the apparatus built at the Proton 21 lab was based on that theory and it worked first time and in 100s of subsequent experiments.

            Shoulders said that Adamenko’s data is in line with his own. What Adamenko says in his book is strikingly similar to Shoulders descriptions. Shoulders also analysed the multi-decade experimental work of John Hutchison and said that the effects were caused by the same active structures. John Hutchison says that shoulders is the only person he knew of that has replicated his effects (though in a miniature way).

            What I personally observed this year in experiments and in watching the university analyse ECCO, LION and me356 and in pretty much everything I have seen in the past 5 years are observations that are in line with those of Shoulders and Adamenko.

            What Hutchison, Shoulders, Adamenko, Ralkar, me356 and Rossi are, are experimentalists, first and foremost, and frankly – if one does x and y happens, and it happens repeatedly and consistently – that is nature, and that is how it works, and if theories don’t fit, they are wrong.

            In looking at Ralkar ECCO fuel this year, from multiple samples, we have hard evidence of transmutation and strange radiation. Moreover, we have hard evidence that it is meta stable – that is to say, whatever is emitting the strange radiation, takes time to do so. This is observed in Hutchison and Piantelli work also.

            Since Hutchison and Adamenko observed elements that do not normally exist on earth or in our near space, and Ralkar’s ECCO fuel emits the ‘strange radiation’ I look forward to when we have the time and resources to analyse our samples of ECCO fuel more thoroughly.

          • OK, I’ve just found this page from Alan Smith’s LENR Forum:


            – but do you have a link to the 750+ page book by Adamenko – supposedly the Bible – or at least the Old Testament – of the EVO work? Supposedly, the “Above Top Secret” guys control access to the New Testament.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That’s it.

            Not found anyone that has a copy of Ken Shoulders book.

          • georgehants

            Might be helpful —-
            Infinate energy
            Charge Clusters:
            The Work of Ken Shoulders
            William Zebuhr

          • – and here is a blog page, from Sepp Hasslberger, about Ken Shoulders’ work that I’ve just found:


            – This one is a comparatively easy read and hints at many other followers out there.

          • – and here is an interview of Adamenko at the Proton 21 labs (August 13th, 2006):


            -also a well presented, well written article.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That’s it, but no one has been able to track it down.

          • – Didn’t Ken Shoulders have a son who assisted him in his later work? He may have a few copies of it and/or would have inherited the right to have it re-printed.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes. Not sure how willing he would be to disseminate, worth a try.

    • LilyLover

      Humans are particularly good at ignoring important questions as long as they get to exploit the utility of a thing. Do we have a theory of gravity? No, do we still use it to our benefit? Yes. Do we have a theory of how the mating of beautiful people produce ugly children? No. Do beautiful people stop mating? No.
      Living with unclarified questions has been the hallmark of the masses. Won’t be different in the case of ECatQX. Does it enrich my life? Yes. How does it do it? They don’t care.

      Without the conclusive answer, the original, still, will be pleasant, and, so will the echo.

  • Scott Beach

    The E-Cat demonstration that was performed in Italy was done at half power because of the leaking of E-Cat seals. So that was not a convincing demonstration. I am expecting another unconvincing test. I will be pleased but surprised if they demonstrate an E-Cat that is unambiguously operating at 6 COP.

  • Anon2012_2014

    I expect another ambiguous demo, similar to the Lugano report. Maybe Rossi will prove this wrong.

  • Deffoda Jonnyto

    I’m expecting that Rossi presentation will indicate very high COP, an so everyone will think it’s a scam. He should start by REALLY demonstrate a lower COP. 100% tested and replicable.

    • Steve Swatman

      has he not said or intimated that the QX’s will be running at only 30% or so…

  • georgehants

    Will not be watching the demonstration so looking forward to updates and conclusions on ECW pages.
    We live in hope.

  • Rand

    Please take photos of the control box and power supply from each side!!!

  • Frank Acland

    Testing out guest posting. It was not turned on, but now is working.

  • Frank Acland

    Videos of the event will be uploaded here as soon as available

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Frank, There are now 380 subscribers to the channel. Are those recent?

      • Frank Acland

        Yes, since about 10 days ago

        • Thomas Kaminski

          Wow! That is a pretty good subscription rate.

  • Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi

    November 17, 2017 at 10:25 AM

    No. Ionizing radiations are not emitted from the E-Cat, as multiple tests have given proof of, therefore
    I prefer to use the term “Effect”, or ” Rossi effect “, from my patent, until a solid theory will be defined. At the end of the demo we will propose ideas for the construction of a theory.
    Thank you for your attention to our work,
    Warm Regards,

  • Pekka Janhunen

    Off-topic for the thread. In ISCMNS volume 25, downloadable at http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BiberianJPjcondensedx.pdf , there is paper by Andras Kovacs et al. on page 159. The paper reports on excess heat measurements on the Cu-Ni-Li system. The experiment should be relatively easily reproducible since it involves no preprocessing of the fuel (the elements are put in in bulk form). Also no hydrogen is used. The most demanding step was welding of the molybdenum container.

    I have followed this work closely and I’m also mentioned in the acknowledgements of the paper. It would be quite interesting if LENR can work also without hydrogen. Of course, one would need to check the result by independent verification before trusting it fully.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks Pekka

      Hutchison works in free air with a range of metals. Shoulders says the H effect is caused by induced Charge Clusters, certainly the transmutations are in line, the effects seam to be in line. Shoulders says LENR is caused by Charge Clusters, ergo, this is possible given the right stimulation.

      Two electrons and one hydrogen isotope is the most basic CC and if Protium, it works well with transition metal and tetrahedrally structured poly hydrides like Arsine, Stibine and Ammonia. However, Shoulders say any ion can be captured by a CC of one kind or other.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      If it is reproducible, it’s likely not LENR 😉

      Joking aside, this looks like an interesting task for the MFMP.
      To be desired:

      1. Flow calorimetry (the ‘thermocouple method’ is not reliable).
      2. Spectrometry in the higher end of the spectrum, neutron detection.
      3. Fuel/ash analysis.

  • Bob Greenyer

    E-Cat X show to be held at 10:00 CET, 24 November 2017

    At a hired conference room in the
    Royal Swedish Academy of Engineering



  • e-dog

    Has anyone got a link to anything that is meant to be happening today?

    • artefact


  • Bob Greenyer
  • Please clarify the start time in PST : 1 am PST tonight – Early Friday? 8 hours time?

  • Is http://e-catworld.com/demo/ Correct URL? 13 mins late so far.

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