Rossi Claims Important Stockholm Success

The presentation of the E-Cat QX in Stockholm last week has been the topic of a great deal of discussion and scrutiny by people following the LENR story. From everything I have read, and people I have spoken with I would say that from the point of view of observers from the outside (i.e. the peanut gallery) that the event has not changed the opinion about the E-Cat a great deal, and one question that has been asked repeatedly is, what was the purpose of putting on such an event?

It was not a product demonstration, since there is no product to demonstrate yet; it was not a scientific presentation, as it was run and controlled by the inventor, Andrea Rossi. To me, it seems that it was is Rossi letting people know that he has an energy production process that works, and that he was open to do business with — at the same (as usual) keeping the details of how he does what he does as secret as possible.

Perhaps the most important part of the event for Rossi were the discussions that took place afterwards. Rossi explained to the attendees that he would be available to meet with people who wanted to talk with him privately in a room at the IVA conference center following the presentation. According to Alan Smith, who attended the presentation, he was still occupied in private meetings four hours after the public meeting concluded.

Rossi has stated on the Journal of Nuclear Physics: “Several days after the Stockholm demo we made a very important agreement, that will make faster the start of a massive industrial production. These few days have been momentous.” I asked him if this agreement was the direct result of the Stockholm presentation and he responded:

Andrea Rossi
November 30, 2017 at 2:05 AM
Frank Acland:
It has been a direct result of the Stockolm event: it has been attended by very high level persons, either from the scientific and the industrial point: the IVA conference room acted just like a reactor containing strongly reactive elements…
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Rossi of course won’t provide us with details of the nature of any agreement, or who he has spoken with, so it is still hard for us outsiders to gauge the significance of the Stockholm event until we find evidence of what many LENR followers are hoping for: LENR products working in the real world.

  • Zephir

    strongly reactive elements = elements like lithium or (mildly reactive) elements enabling strong (nuclear) reaction?
    BTW the “E-cat world” search at Google seems to be working again..

  • спаситель русских

    Somehow it is not clear, doubts remained

  • clovis ray

    Hi,Frank.
    I am so proud he was pleased,
    I’m glad it is over because so many things can go wrong in such an operation.
    Now we an move on to production and more exciting
    Possibilities.

  • Dr. Mike

    Since the controller power consumption was a big issue in the demonstration, it seems likely that there were technical people in the audience that could recommend where it would be best for Rossi to get technical support for improving the efficiency of the controller. Perhaps Rossi was also able to acquire some leads on who might best help with the production automation. There may have been some investors present that thought the results of the demonstration were sufficient to make an investment. If Rossi was able to identify potential technical help or new investors, it’s easy to see why he claims the demonstration was a success.

    • clovis ray

      Hi, DR.Mike.
      My guess would be that the controller was only a problem for the demo device, all is well with the 5 Sigma device. That will be put to work in many different settings that need heat, so many possibility and so few resources and people needed, to bring ther E-cat to the masses.

      • Dr. Mike

        The controller will be an issue for getting a QX E-cat system to the market until:it is shown that it really can control 100 or more devices while consuming at least an order of magnitude less power than output from the devices it is controlling. It may turn out to be very hard to turn on all devices of a large group, most likely connected in parallel. Do you think Rossi has enough knowledge about the design of controller electronics to even begin to estimate the difficulty in optimizing the controller design? Even electrical engineers working in the field of controller design could not estimate how difficult the design task will be because they can only guess at what electrical waveforms must be output by the controller. Everyone looking forward to seeing E-cat systems getting to the masses should wish Rossi the best of luck in finding talented engineers to help with the controller design.

        • Bob Greenyer

          My expectation is that the controller problem will scale linearly with the number of the devices controlled and exponentially with how hard they are driven.

        • ARM

          Why didn’t Rossi demonstrate a 100 QX cluster? That would generate close to 2 Kilowatts of heat with a COP in the tens of thousands? He says his controller can do it. Why did he not show it? So all we would need is a power meter to measure the power input to the so called controller no need to probe the signals out ot the controller. Unbelievable
          .

        • clovis ray

          Mike I respect your input, but he has plenty of brain power to do the job.0
          Actually the controler works well, and only needs to be reduced in size for certainly jobs. controllers are not that hard to configure. AND in an industrial setting it will be a custom fit but one size fits all controler is what is needed seems to me .

          • ARM

            The size of the demo controller would not deter consumers if the system could deliver the energy it promises. Is somebody purposely raising invalid concerns to distract us from the main question of “does QX work?.”

  • We had to wait many months before we found out about Industrial Heat. Hopefully we find out sooner this time AND the new partner is a real engineering company.

    Please don’t be Joe’s HVAC or something lame like that.

    PLEASE.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Hey, that’s unfair, Joe’s a nice guy

      • Omega Z

        Joe could also be brilliant. It is amazing how many people who are brilliant who work menial jobs and contribute to amazing developments as freelancers with little fanfare or credit.

      • But rather average in my estimation.

    • ARM

      Don’t hold your breath.

  • bfast

    As a member of the peanut gallery, let me say that my faith in Rossi has diminished substantially as a response to the demo. I am very concerned about the heat dissipation of the controller, and I am not at all pleased that a reliable “power in” measurement was not available.

    • f sedei

      Do not be disillusioned. As Frank Acland says, ” he has an energy production process that works”. Now, he can attract and enlist the the required talent to help iron out the bugs. From the sound of it, there will be a substantial number of impressed industrialists vying for the task …and the financial rewards.

    • LarryJ

      It was known weeks before the demo that Rossi would not allow a definitive test of power into his reactor. This demo was never intended to “prove” cold fusion. I was pleasantly surprised that he allowed an oscilloscope as he originally was going to disallow that too. All in all a very impressive demo given the constraints he is working with. Serious potential partners will be allowed a much closer look.

      • clovis ray

        Well stated.

    • clovis ray

      This demo was not a test and he was not trying to please you , he did please the folks that attended .

  • Gerard McEk

    The day after the test I have send my gatidude to Andrea for doing the test publicly. I honostly told him that it did not gave me more conviction than I already have (95%) that he masters LENR. I also said that I hoped that this event would help him to find a proper partner for improving his controller to one with a high efficiency. I ended with a remark that when the QX with a controller produces considerably more energy than it consumes then that would be very convincing.
    My comment was moderated out, unfortunately. Maybe I was too close to the truth with regards to the purpose of the event? Or maybe I was too honest….. 😉

    • Dr. Mike

      My guess is too honest.

    • ARM

      My guess is too too too “thrusting.” There just isn’t any evidence.

      • clovis ray

        Not true, there is plenty evidence but you have to look for it yourself, test after test and very important professors of all kinds have measured this device and confirmed it works.

    • clovis ray

      Gerard it was not a test, it was an exhibition that’s all it was not ment to be anything else But an exhibition.the investors liked it, job accomplish .

  • artefact

    From the transcription of Vessela Nicolovas conference:

    “[Menichella] It is obsolete. But
    instead, as differences, with the Hot-Cat, I remember at the time we
    talked a lot on the blogs of the technology of the cat and the mouse. That one
    there, say, you brought her back or is that part of the past too?

    [Rossi] That there was today in the oscilloscope. Because
    we have an electric field of an electricity with particles that move
    only in one direction, that is, polarized in one direction with a
    pulsating rhythm. And in those pulsations there is the game of cat and mouse.”

    • How about that Eng48?

      • ARM

        Mats,
        Have you seen my suggestion on how to measure the input power to QXs without having access to the input connector?

        Your approach was very ingenuous but does not measure the real input power.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Done a long time ago.

      More recently, this is basically how Suhas Ralkars foil process works.

  • Tobben Heibert

    “Rossi of course won’t provide us with details of the nature of any agreement, or who he has spoken with, so it is still hard for us outsiders”

    Same old storry…

  • bfast

    Off topic, I just punched “ecat world” into google, and e-catworld.com came up first! Is google now fixed on this important issue?

    • artefact

      Yes. Since the switch back from ecatworld.org the old page.

  • Cuthbert Allgood

    I really, really hate to say this, but… this demo was a disaster. Total, complete disaster.

    It’s just not that hard to prove this damn thing works. Suspend it on a platform with fishing line, run it off batteries, and show some water heating much faster than the mass of the batteries or chemical heating can account for. It could even be in a black box. Done, boom, world is now changing.

    But Rossi didn’t. We had all kinds of weird shenanigans. When I brought up the above in another post, Dr. Mike responded that being battery powered wouldn’t work because the controller, at this time, consumes more power than the device delivers. And his conclusion was, “I think the device works, but he’s years away from getting the controller’s power down.”

    [record scratch] WHAT!? This isn’t a knock on Dr. Mike, but… why would a /controller/ of all things needs so much power? It should just be attenuating the input power in some “controlling” way. If the ECatX needs just a trickle of power, it makes no sense for the controller to need some big pile o’ power. This makes no sense at all.

    Let’s assume Rossi isn’t a crook, but is just deluded, as I now suspect. Given that this thing can be easily demonstrated if it really worked, I think it’s clear that Rossi has deluded himself and the reason the thing appears to work is all the power going to the controller, which heats up the ECat. Rossi thinks something is happening, and he keeps thinking, “I’m so close, if I can only get the level of power down in the controller, I know this will work…”

    I don’t think Rossi is a crook. I think it’s just classic delusion. He wouldn’t be the first.

    It’s still possible there might be something to LENR. But I think it’s time to throw in the towel on Rossi. The level of power going to this “controller” (that just happens to appear to match the output power) has reached the level of absurdity. Sadly.

    • Jed B

      I was going to write something similar. I was originally intrigued by the Rossi saga because it seemed like the only two possibilities were that he had a revolutionary device or was running an unbelievably bold scam. Now I think that neither of these are true, and the most likely reality is that he truly believes that the “Rossi effect” is real. If it is real, and works with “5 Sigma” reliability, then demonstrating it conclusively should not be hard.

      My opinion on the “controller issues” is that Rossi can’t find a way to make the “Rossi effect” work without supplying more power than it produces. This is exactly the problem with every over unity device ever suggested.

      • Cuthbert Allgood

        A perpetual motion wheel would be easy, if we could only solve that pesky controller problem where the controller takes more power controlling the drive motor to the wheel (“just to get it started”) than we get back in motion.

        • clovis ray

          Well that is exactly what it is not.it is a new device operating with a new kind physics.these machines are collecting energy from the quantum field.

      • clovis ray

        I believe there is no controler problem only in the demo device.
        these devices will all be different and a custom fit. To large gensets and heat production.all with personal attendants and many different computer controlers..

    • Cuthbert Allgood, I think what you ask for (battery fed reactor etc) can be done if the QX works as claimed, but not in this phase. He’s not there yet. I know professional people talking to Rossi seeing that as a goal, but I would be surprised if it was feasible with today’s level of R&D. At least that’s my impression.

      • Cuthbert Allgood

        What does it even do, then? What makes Rossi thinks this thing works at all? Supposedly he had something working well, but was aiming at “5 sigma reliability”, whatever that means. If it’s unreliable, fine. Record 100 tests and show the one that worked. Hell, record 1,000 tests. We only need to see one, as long as it clearly shows a power output significantly greater than the input such that traditional methods are impossible.

        But he doesn’t. He’s been pushing this five sigma thing and then he claimed he was officially five sigma and ready for the demo. In the past, he’s claimed five sigma was the level of reliability he was aiming at for /manufacturing/. But now suddenly it can’t work unless there is a /significant/ input of power into this “controller”.

        OK, fine. Let’s say that’s what’s needed. Surely Rossi has /some/ reason to think this thing works, right? Some significant power output that so exceeds the input that it was all roses that testing day. Just a matter of making it reliable. We can agree power is power, right? If it works off wall current, it should work off a battery, even if you need a big battery. So be it. Put a big pile of lithium batteries together and run the thing. Surely a successful test will have significantly more output than the batteries held?

        Rossi claimed the reason for this demonstration was five sigma and close to ready for manufacturing. But suddenly it’s just a research device that we’re not supposed to expect to see more power out than power in. Really? Come on. /Really/? Is that what we in the peanut gallery have been reduced to apologizing for?

        I think everyone is disappointed that LENR is not on the menu today. But at some point, we have to be willing to say the chef has no food and all the banging of pots in the world is not going to make it appear.

        • Omega Z

          “5 sigma reliability” was about the reliability of the reactor. Not controller issues.

          • clovis ray

            Thank you Omega.and Dr.Rossi has said that there is no problems with the controler why are people making a big deal out of this demo controler. Not a problem period.

          • Vinney

            He seems to be concerned about its size, heat efficiency and power consumption.
            He thinks a potential alliance or partner could reduce its (saying it could be the size of a pack of cigarettes) size.
            That’s significant miniaturization, meaning he is exploring ‘consumer’ products for the Ecat QX.
            I think he is trying to entice some very capable engineering firms with a massive consumer market, should they invest money and expertise on this component.
            Obviously, any firm that can meet that requirement is going to be capable to assist in mass manufacture of the QX modules.
            That level of miniaturization in the controller module also closes the loop, and he would have an ‘insurmountable’ lead over his competitors.
            But for large industrial heat applications its essentially ready to go.

      • ARM

        Mats,
        Seriously, why not in this phase?
        It’s in this phase or never.

        • Omega Z

          There will be no more demo’s. At least not to the public.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Great, the next thing I want to hear about the QX is from a reliable customer about the amount of money he saved by using the QX reactor.

          • ARM

            yes me too so far I have been waiting since Mats published “An impossible invention.”

          • ARM

            I think I am gona cry

          • ARM

            Of course not. There is nothing to demo!

      • ARM

        ATTENTION

        Let’s take a look at what this is all about. From the demo we have this magic QX that inputs 0.045 W of electric power and generates 23 W of heat for a COP = 506.
        We are told that it takes around 60 W to generate the input required to power as many as 100 QXs.

        Conclusions:

        Since 100 QXs generate 2300 W we can include the 60 W in the calculation of the COP and we get COP = 2300 W divided by 60 W = 38

        COP = 38 ? WOW !

        I would settle for a COP of 3 or 4.

        AR please connect 100 QXs and redo the demo this eliminates the need to measure the input to the QXs.

        • clovis ray

          Why would he do that he is not trying to convince you are anyone else except his investors he could care less what you think. He knows all there is to know about his kittys and he is not telling, that would be stupid, you like all the rest want believe until you have seen one in action well .wait good things come to the one that is patient.

          • ARM

            His investors are me and my friends. I would love to invest in his technology when he shows me it works.

      • interstellar hobo

        What in the world does sigma 5 mean to him

        • Vinney

          I think we concluded it was the reliability of switching on and off the Ecat QX and hitting several output levels. During the demo, it would have gone through this sigma 5 test cycle ‘thousands’ of times.

      • Stephen

        Hi Mats

        Do we know the power rating, voltage rating or the size of the 1ohm resistor?

        Preferably all 3? And even its type and model?

        It could be interesting information.

    • ARM

      Allgood,
      That’s a very good assessment.
      I’ll have to add that the amount of energy produced in the demo (23 watt-hours) is less than.the 25 watt-hours that eight AA NiMH batteries can hold.
      Just eight AA batteries!

    • clovis ray

      It matters not what you think. Calling him names just showed you don’t have a clue, ask those in attendance, their opinion was it works and they are very intelligent folks and not a bunch of trash talkers.

  • PhysicsForDummies

    re: “the event has not changed the opinion about the E-Cat a great deal”. I don’t know how you can say that Frank. I don’t think there is a single educated person whose opinion of the e-cat is more positive after that “demo”. I felt positive about the chances that this actually works before now, but not now. Rossi’s shenanigans under the hood during the resistor tests, and the fact that he would not allow the most basic measurements of true input and output power during the demo, which could have validated that it might actually work, made it a joke. I think Rossi is a clown and he is truly damaging to the reputation of real scientists working in this field, and it is pretty sad.

    • ARM

      I couldn’t have said that any better.

    • Bob Greenyer

      A $9 power meter on the controller would have added a lot of confidence – even if it read 400W, just the fact of having the courage to have it on there would have helped the credibility. Sad.

      • clovis ray

        Come on Bob you never used one on any of your experiments because the are not accurate. You always are looking for ways to attack his credibility.that is what is sad.

        • Bob Greenyer

          We had two with us on AURA – but we also had a PA1000 and a PCE-830.

          Saying that having a $9 would have added a lot of confidence is not attacking his credibility. What is your opinion, do you think fully disclosing at least in a basic way the controllers power would have added or removed clarity?

          • clovis ray

            Hi,Bob
            Confidence ,he was not trying to convince anyone but the people in attendance. You guys want it to be an scientific experment that would have gave away more ip. He has been very generous with his IP trying to help those that are trying to reproduce his device, but he has said many times he will not just hand it over until he is ready and that is when he has a product on line.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Actually, if you read Ryan’s letter, you will see that we would have been very happy to ensure a believable set of data. We specifically said we had no interest in what was or was not going on inside.

            If we believe it worked, then Rossi by accident or design gave away far more than I think he intended in any case. It points to a Chernetsky kind of device.

    • Axil Axil

      If you are not going to invest in the QX factory, then the demo is not for you.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        It is not only about investors’ money. It’s also about wasting the time of other people.

        • clovis ray

          You are in control of what you do, go do other things who’s holding you back.if you are waiting on Dr.Rossi to hand over things he worked hard for over the many years well he’s not going to.

      • clovis ray

        It so clear, it was not a test it was a private
        Demo for investors.

    • Vinney

      Fat chance Frank is going to drop ECW Reporting based on some of the opinions and explanations offered here so far.
      Now that he has seen it operating before him, ‘first person’, he is 99.99% sure he is on a good thing.

  • Ophelia Rump

    The idea of the controller being difficult to design appropriately to fit the requirements being a blocking issue to having a finished product sounds like jibberish to me.

    The design of power supplies is well understood and mathematically precise.
    Give a team of skilled power supply engineers the requirements and they should have a working prototype in a week.

    Frankly this kind of noise makes me skeptical.

    • Not so, Rump. Control can be the most challenging aspect of non-linear engineering.

      • Frederic Maillard

        Hello LENR G,
        Maybe the main problem Rossi has with optimizing his controller is to unveil some of his IP to the engineer that will help him, namely the particulars of the signals he uses to at least start and stop the plasma inside the QX.

        • Vinney

          If his first application is large industrial heat applications or large gensets, the controller can be over-engineered anyway.
          To maintain security (IP protection) these units will not only have trained personnel onsite, but also be remotely monitored.
          The controllers will also collect enormous amounts of data to further improve the Ecat efficiency, and thus be highly programmable. He could even add a few other signal generators to confuse any potential reverse engineering effort.
          He just has to make sure that when he programs his signal that it is encrypted on the controller computer, and the remote monitoring and data collection computer.
          There are more than enough tools in the marketplace to do that.
          And, you can also take precautions and change both the encryption algorithm and system passwords regularly, as he will be prime target for cyber IP theft.
          Again, any security expert can help him setup these procedures.

          • ARM

            Vinney,
            Can you tell us how you found out this is such a smart controller with encryption capabilities. Also, what kind of intelligence is there in the QX to communicate with the controller?

          • Vinney

            Both Rossi and Fabiani were watching and hitting keys on their laptops, and on-screen (overhead, visible to us all) we saw both the oscilloscope and the laptop screens.
            The Ecat QX controller is operated and adjusted from the PC.
            He didn’t open the controller and adjust dials and knobs, these are all operated by the PC.
            When he did open the box, it was to remove some wires, because the oscilloscope readings on the ‘dummy’ tests would have revealed some IP.

          • ARM

            Vinney,
            Thanks for answering and thanks for the information.
            I am trying to find out how many wires there are between Controller and QX.

          • Rene

            Two. As best determined by looking at the vids and by the sketchy diagram.
            My take on the ‘controller’ is that there is no fine grained feedback at all. The controller (in my opinion) seems to be a device that periodically sends a high voltage pulse to trigger ionization in the gas, similar to flash lamps, and then generates a regulated current to maintain the plasma, similar to continuous operation xenon/krypton lamps. On top of that, there seems to be two primary frequencies generated by the controller one around 100KHz the other either at 150KHz or 50Khz. Or it could be a 100KHz carrier amplitude modulated at 50KHz. Finally there seems to be a long period on/off cycler that turns on all of the above on a varying duty cycle, which in the demo was set to a 30% duty cycle.
            I may be off on the frequencies since I was counting divisions on the scope depicted in the vids.

        • A lot of Rossi’s behavior can be explained by what I believe he sees as the absolute necessity to protect the invention from corporate pirates and reverse engineering– until such time as he can market it at such low prices that it will be difficult to supplant him.

      • ARM

        whatever non-linear engineering means

        • Warthog

          Working with physical phenomena that fit exponential laws of performance. Even as simple a thing as pH is severely non-linear.

          • ARM

            oops

        • clovis ray

          Arm, who are you,
          You seem to be trolling everything said positive about Dr.Rossi. what your problem, do you think your the first skeptic on this forum buddy we have had plenty here over the years.

          • ARM

            I am a seeker of the truth that enjoys solving problems. My specialty is Signal processing and AI. What about you? Who are you? By the way, most of what is said here is just noise. Noise helps AR continue his claims. I try to get to the essentials and I stay as close to the facts as I can. Please help me getting my facts straight, facts meaning actual values of measurements taken. Name calling etc that happens here hinders me.

          • We can save you some time. There is no definitive proof in the public realm that Rossi has what he claims and even those of us who think he probably has something know this and acknowledge this.

            There are many indicators for both something real and deception, so it’s a confusing story to try to get to the bottom of. So good luck and welcome to the party. If you really want to have some fun find the court documents published as part of the Rossi v. Industrial Heat law suit that was settled just before trial a little while ago.

          • ARM

            no need to go through lawyers jargon
            All I need to know is that he needs investors because it tells me what he got out of the settlement.

          • I know you’re new here so here’s my summary if the Industrial Heat era and settlement. Rossi found a partner to fund him in 2012 that he thought shared his goals. Rossi pocketed $10M+ after IH due diligence. Rossi came to distrust IH because they wouldn’t start the contractual test for $89M and pursued an IP strategy instead of a commercialization strategy + shared some of his secrets with those he considered competitors. IH came to distrust Rossi when he became evasive (and especially after they brought in outside engineers who convinced them they were fraud victims and the 1 MW plant was a farce).

            But Rossi had concocted a situation that forced IH to let him start the test. While tweaking the 1 MW plant he also continued R&D on what has now become the QX and shared none of it with IH. Rossi completed the test successfully as verified by the mutually agreed-upon referee and expected to get paid. IH balked. Rossi sued IH. IH counter-sued and accused Rossi of fraud and alleged the referee and several others were co-conspirators. Court documents showed both sides acting badly in various ways.

            They settled with no further transfer of money but Rossi got his IP rights back and he was happy as a clam.

            So, Rossi, supposed scammer with $10M already in his pocket and leader of a years-long conspiracy numbering at least 5 people at this point, sued to get his supposedly worthless IP back, subjecting himself to months of discovery (and potential jail time) and feels like he won.

            All this after he released his device for independent (ok, mostly independent) testing by a team of Swedish (and other) scientists and they concluded that it worked and remain supporters of him to this day.

            He needs, not necessarily investors, he needs to partner with a large engineering company that can take this over the goal line with some serious resources.

          • Rene

            And too, it is not clear that his latest version is product capable (if it works). Product capable means having a prototype that does what it claims, is repeatable across a large operation space, has long term stability across that operation space. That is the engineering challenge. The problem is that the public knows nothing of the problems or efficacy other than some dubious demos that made the situation more questionable than ever. Quite frustrating.

          • LarryJ

            To be specific he got the licences back for North America, Central America, South America, Russia, China, his IP, the 1MW prototype reactor built and owned by IH and he kept the $11 M down payment.

          • Rene

            Thank you for that succinct response, lenr g. It needs to be stated periodically.

          • Omega Z

            “Noise helps AR continue his claims.”

            Not at All. Rossi doesn’t really care what others think and it has no impact on what he does.

    • Axil Axil

      Maybe designing a controller for a EMF generator with negative resistance is not that common.

    • clovis ray

      Well said,i have said almost the same thing before.

  • Henry

    Is it QX replication? https://streamable.com/fh9t8
    If so ME356 is pretty fast

  • Michael W Wolf

    Put a battery on his device and run it past the possible life of the battery. Nothing else will do for me at this point. This demo with conditions placed on the the people measuring, makes his sigma 5 worthless imo.

    • ARM

      The problem with batteries is that the amount of energy transferred in a charge/discharge cycle is difficult to measure more so than just measuring power like electrical utilities do.

  • Bruce__H

    I am somewhat surprised and offended that William S. Hurley, the engineer overseeing the calorimetry during the Stockhiolm demonstration, turns out not to be an independent and unbiased guarantor of the proceedings but a long-time Rossi acolyte and even a potential customer for Rossi’s gadgets.

    Surely it would have been better to engage someone neutral or even a bit skeptical! I wonder if Mats Lewan knew about Mr Hurley’s past interactions with Rossi.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Depending on one’s perspective its either depressing or ingenious.

      • ARM

        depressing for me ingenious for Rossi

        • Bob Greenyer

          You got it!

          • clovis ray

            Why are you so depressed when it comes to anything Rossi.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I didn’t say I was depressed, I think he is very cleaver

    • Observer

      Feynman was a skeptical observer of the Papp engine.

      Look how well that turned out.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Same thing, different embodiment.

        • Observer

          Google Feyman Papp engine.
          Skepticism can be lethal.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I know the story

    • Omega Z

      “William S. Hurley, the engineer overseeing the calorimetry during the Stockholm demonstration, turns out not to be an independent and unbiased guarantor of the proceedings but a long-time Rossi acolyte and even a potential customer for Rossi’s gadgets.”

      Where would “a potential customer” bias lay.
      I would suppose it would be in determining whether Rossi’s device works because if not, he certainly wouldn’t want to buy into or invest in something that doesn’t.

      It’s amusing that everyone thinks Rossi should bring in outside expertise, but anytime he does, people using your logic think anyone that becomes acquainted with Rossi is suddenly no longer to be trusted. The only thing that will convince anyone that Rossi’s device works is when it comes to market.

      • Bruce__H

        You comment …

        “Where would “a potential customer” bias lay.
        I would suppose it would be in determining whether Rossi’s device works because if not, he certainly wouldn’t want to buy into or invest in something that doesn’t.”

        I take your point, but I think you are wrong in this particular instance. It seems that Mr. Hurley has long been convinced that Rossi’s devices do work. He has said so many times on the JONP blog (if you search the archive for that blog his name comes up 90 times since 2011).

        • Omega Z

          “It seems that Mr. Hurley has long been convinced that Rossi’s devices do work.”

          Yes, He has been following Rossi since at least July 2011.
          I’d also bet he is one of those special tests Rossi has mentioned in the past several months and is more knowledgeable of the QX then any of us in the peanut gallery. If he is who I think he is, he wouldn’t be setting at that table on Rossi’s right at the demo had he not seen convincing evidence. While his existence appears to have been scrubbed clean from the internet,(Smart man) there are some scraps to be found.

      • Rene

        Actually what would convince many people that Rossi’s device works is the complete evidence of outputs and inputs. But that was not his goal in this investor meeting. And yes, given he’s going to keep playing secrecy game, indeed the only two options left is waiting for it to come to market or just looking elsewhere.

    • roseland67

      Bruce,

      Why are you surprised,
      it is SOP Rossi

      • Bruce__H

        I agree. I now think that Mr Rossi asked Mr Hurley to Stockholm to try and create the impression of having an independent 3rd party overseeing the calorimetry. In reality Mr Hurley is someone who has an years-long background with Rossi.

        I didn’t realize this at the start, just like most people I expect. But now I think you are correct that we have seen this sort of thing before from Mr Rossi. Mr Hurley is a sort of repeat of the use of Penon.as the “ERV” at Doral.

        • D – E – M – O.

          Not an independent 3rd party test. Straw-man.

    • Yes I did. As I stated early on, it was not a scientific experiment but a demo run by the inventor. He would choose the third party, so in any case it would be someone who he would trust. So in the end, it didn’t change much to me that Hurley had already connections with Rossi.

  • scottlshman

    .

    In 1946, Masaru Ibuka started an electronics shop in a department store building in Tokyo. The company started with a capital of YEN 190,000 and a total of eight employees. In May 1946, Ibuka was joined by Akio Morita to found a company called Tokyo Tsushin Kogyo (Tokyo Telecommunications Engineering Corporation). The company built Japan’s first tape recorder, called the Type-G. In 1958, the company changed its name to “Sony”.

    There was a televised interview in the UK with Akio Morita. He said that having an idea in itself isn’t more important than the ability to turn the idea into something that can be manufactured easily and sold at a profit..

    It would seem that Mr Rossi has succeeded in the “having an idea” part of the process but is having trouble with the control system. Maybe he needs to take on a process engineer before competitors with deep pockets catch up and patent the working “process”.

    .

    • ARM

      Can you explain why the controller is the problem like the amount of power it requires or the amount of space it requires but please give the values involved like how many watts it dissipates or the volume it occupies etc…. That would be the only way for me to understand your concern.

  • Bruce__H

    What was William Hurley’s role in the recent demonstration in Stockholm?

    He didn’t make any public remarks during the conference as far as I know. He is not a 3rd party who can act as a sort of neutral technical referee. I don’t think he wrote the calorimetry report that was sent to Mats Lewan and later published on this site over his name (I think Mr Rossi wrote it).

    So what was he there for? What would have played out differently if he had been absent? Did he perhaps set up the calorimetry system? Is that why he was there?

    • clovis ray

      You still don’t get it.it was not a test.it was a demo for the potental investors. For observation only, but it had clear data .

      • Bruce__H

        If Stockholm was supposed to be a test then I actually understand what Mr Hurley’s role might be (although I don’t think he was suitable). If it was just a demo then I understand his role even less.

        What do you think Mr Hurley’s role was supposed to be?

      • Bob Greenyer

        The really exciting data for me was the rusting on the clamps and the overheating problems that are present with cool connecting wires in combination with the spark on, sustain, spark off. This tells you what the E-Cat QX is based on – I could not be more happy.

        • Eyedoc

          Glad you’re happy, but I’m just as confused as before. I’m sure you will explain in due time.;)

          • Bob Greenyer

            Oh, I will, and then some.

      • Vinney

        He is a potential customer basking in world notoriety. He was attending the demo anyway, Rossi thought he would get him to run some numbers as well.
        Besides, he is a design power plant engineer.

      • Rene

        I agree it was a demo for investors and a bunch of invited non-NDA enthusiasts to juice up those investors. But the data was far from clear. It was heavily fogged up deliberately.

        Any bets on the market availability? That would be one of those nice polls to set up. Frank?

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Keep in mind what Sam said a year ago:

    “The Rossi reaction has an intractable problem that is impossible to solve. It disables electrical equipment at long distances from the reaction and this effect cannot be shielded.” http://disq.us/p/1ci3q6j

    At the demo, the reactor was not running at full power. If the reactor is run at full power, perhaps it might emit some random electromagnetic pulses, EMPs that would fry modern fragile integrated circuits. Could he be using EMP resistant VACUUM TUBES?

    • Alan DeAngelis
    • Ted Rygas

      The interference with electrical equipment suggests a resonating circuitry of the Quark QX. Running the device at 30% could be due to the location and the RF-interference within the environment/nearby facilities at the place where the presentation was carried out. Also, the restrictions on the measurements suggest that there is a resonating circuitry. The current is not DC… the previous DC statement was to misinform the competitors (in the device, the DC is chopped, I think). Earlier, I posted a schematic of a resonating circuitry, fulfilling all the facts that are known so far. Rossi’s behaviour just confirmed: it is a resonating, high amperage current in a plasma system. Plasma of hydrogen and lithium (plus some nickel) has the resistance of a good conductor.
      I still believe that my assessment of the Rossi’s technology was correct.
      I also think that Rossi does pre-treatment of nickel using cryogenic crushing to get something new to the science, such as a form of nickel with meta-stable nuclei (which would be the catalyst of the LENR). … The source of my information is a friend, whose identity I can not disclose, but I know that he has access to certain reliable sources and was most often correct in his answers, in the past.

      • Ted Rygas

        Pro Publico Bono.

      • hunfgerh

        (in the device, the DC is chopped, I think).

        Explanation for the hacked DC.
        Conductor is a superconductor: T Tc = current off; etc.
        Secondary effect: pulsating strongly concentrated magnetic field.

        • hunfgerh

          T Tc = current off; seems also been hacked

        • Andreas Moraitis

          The idea that the reactor itself chops the DC would make sense since AR declared a while ago that the input of the QX was “plain DC”. However, wasn’t the waveform still discontinuous when the resistors were connected? I am not sure about this detail – maybe someone else could clarify it.

      • ARM

        Ted,
        Lets stick to the facts, lets not go into hypothetical scenarios like resonating circuitry.

      • Rene

        The part I believe Rossi said was that he was running at 30% to not risk failure during the demo. The QX tube gets too hot above 30% drive. Thousands of little fragile glass tubes is not a production quality unit. It’s a prototype. If the QX really works (can’t tell because of the unknowns on the input side), I predict it will be built very differently – in CNC drilled cermet pockets on a slab.

        • Obvious

          During the first spectrometry run in the dark, the QX ran for 14 seconds with no water.

          • Rene

            Right it was off for some time until Rossi noticed no light coming out of it.
            A plasma lamp takes a beating from the heat generated, but in steady state it’s just about the heat. A pulsed plasma lamp takes a far worse beating because every time the plasma is ignited it sends an ultrasonic pulse outward to impinge on the glass. Only so many of those startups can be endured.

      • can

        I think I found your schematic, but you posted it with a guest account and a different username.

      • Axil Axil

        The LENR reaction itself is producing the electrical interference, not the type of input electric activity around the reactor. The interference could be produced by muon emissions. ME356 said that he could not use electrical test or measuring equipment within 3 meters of his reactor, The Defkalion reactor took down the phone system in the building that their demo was held in.

    • Bob Greenyer

      It is more than just RF interference. Depending on the intensity of the effect, there are super heavy neutral emissions (strange radiation) and scalar waves – these go through materials and can release their energy in conductors.

      When a EVO explodes, it causes an EMP and IMPO a burst of electrons at a wide range of energies. IMPO this is what happened in MFMPs ‘Signal’, why?

      – No characteristic x-rays, just broad spectrum up into the MeVs
      – The connected power monitor was disabled for a period of time
      – The isolated Spectrometer was saturated for a period of time

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Yeah, Rossi has a tiger by the tail.

      • Ted Rygas

        Just an opinion from my friend:
        1. There are no super heavy emissions, although the spectrum is indeed in MeV..
        2. The scalar waves are likely to be generated. The properties of the scalar waves are little known. This is a new field in physics.
        3. To maintain the highly conducting and hot plasma, a high current is needed. This high current is maintained in a secondary circuit (inductance, capacitance and the plasma tube/QX). The “dusty plasma” is known to produce the LENR effect. It was confirmed by several sources. The circuitry is very simple, in spite of the presence of a “secondary circuit”. I provided a schematic in an earlier post. The frequency is most likely close to about 60 kHz.
        4. Superconductivity is not present.
        5. The power supply is creating “chopped DC” signal, just maintaining the resonant currents (like in a playground, delicate pushing a swing with a child).
        6. Rossi’s catalyst is cryogenically compressed nickel. The effects of cryogenic compression on metals are very little known. This kind of compression may create something similar to Bose-Einstein condensate or a metal with meta-stable nuclei, or something in between. Research in this area of metallurgy is “generally not supported” 🙂 . By some mental block, the Bose-Einstein condensation is investigated only in the systems under vacuum, never under pressure.
        ———————————————————————————–
        Facts would be better than any speculation, but since we do not have any reliable “facts”, than we have to speculate. My speculations are based on certain sources. The speculations may bring the solution. The alternative is to do nothing.
        ——————————
        Pro Publico Bono.

        • Bob Greenyer

          1. From my own observation of ‘Strange Radiation’ in plastic, metal
          oxides and webcam, and that they match those found in many experiments
          around the world, I am confident, based on empirical data that the ‘New
          Kinds of Radiation’ that Adamenko/Vysotskii (2006/7 paper) identified as
          likely super heavy A> 3000 – 5000 and neutral is the same thing.
          This according to them is ejected in the forming (deforming) charge clusters.
          2. Not a new field, but since Oliver Heaveside dismissed key aspects of Maxwell’s equations, electrodynamics in the West has been broken, so broken that western scientist can’t even see their effects when they are staring them in their face. The ability to transfer 25kW down an 8um wire, cold forming of metals, 10MW Scalar interferometers etc attest to a deep understanding of Scalar waves. Konstantin Meyl has is a good place to start.
          3. I think it looks very similar to a Chernetsky device – with same problems.
          4. And you know this how? We have observed lowering of resistance in Celani wire, it happens in Pd D, and have claims in another (TBC) and production of electricity. I have not said superconductivity happens in these systems but it seems to be related. I have noted that in the fuel processing of Suhas Ralkar, which was only meant to change the particle size, the product had elements that seemed to prefer elements that exhibit the highest critical temperature as single atoms. Nb, Pb, Sn. I am asking why that would be? That LENR had to take place for this outcome means that there is a relationship. IMPO LENR tends to stability, either lack of radiation or something that is able to dump energy.
          5. Agreed
          6. As we have reported previously, Piantelli produced his Nickel by PVD onto substrate cooled by liquid Nitrogen. It would not surprise me that this knowledge propagate via Focardi. Having said that since Norris Peery got broad scale transmutation in liquid metal and Hutchison got the exact same transmutations as observed in Lab LENR in large electrically insulated billets of metal standing in free air, then I do not think that it is a requirement when you really know how it works.

          A HV discharge includes everything in electrodynamics and is not really an approach that gives great guidance to the experimentalist. It is like hitting a Tibetan bowl rather than caressing it.

          I reserve the right to change my mind at any time.

          • Ted Rygas

            My well informed friend still insists that:
            1 Cryogenic treatment of nickel is a necessary condition for an efficient LENR effect.
            2. Adamenko/Vysotskij are not correct
            3. Konstantin Meyl is mostly correct, but not totally correct.
            4. The lowering of conductivity proceeds through a mechanism similar to superconductivity, while superconductivity, in a pure form, is not present in LENR
            reactions.

    • ARM

      I never met an EMP that I couldn’t shield from.

      • Jonnyb

        Muons?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Try one that also spits out super heavy ‘New Kinds Of Radiation’ (Adamenko/Vysotsky) that is neutral (like a neutron) with mass number of A > 3000 – 5000

      • Axil Axil

        How about muons?

    • Alan DeAngelis
  • rusolf

    I don’t understand why Mr. Rossi would actually need such a demo to convince potential investors. Couldn’t he simply show them his old e-cat? Even a COP of 1.1 would make clear to any expert in the energy market that this man is a genius.

    This is a posting from Engineer48 that I still remember because I found it so remarkable when it was posted two years ago:

    “Rossi’s 1MW 105C steam plants are FOR SALE!!!!!!!!!!
    My clients are sitting it out until the court case is settled. Can’t blame them as I would do the same thing.
    However Rossi was ready to engage the ordering and money escrow process for 10 x 1MW at least 105C steam plants with 6 months delivery. Hard to believe he would do that and have nothing to deliver as he would burn a VERY large owner and operator of thermal power plants.”

    • Dr. Mike

      But the 1MW steam plants ended up never being “for sale” as Rossi now claims the 1MW steam plant was just a prototype. After the legal problems that Rossi had with IH, it seems that any potential investor would want to see a reasonable system COP (10-20) with QX devices and some demonstration of reliability before making an investment. I could see why investors with “faith” in Rossi might be willing to help fund the controller development so that he can demonstrate a reasonable system COP, but it seems a premature to fund the building of automated factories until some system COP milestone is met.

  • Bob Greenyer

    That’s splitting hairs.

  • Stephen

    Very nice article here about resistors:

    https://www.edn.com/design/components-and-packaging/4321070/Five-questions-about-resistors

    Does any one know what power rating his 1ohm resistor had and what size it was… I think a for example 20 W resistor can be some cm in length.

    I wonder about the implications of this article on the demo.

    After reading it seems to me the 20 W heat power out put could only have come from the e-cat QX. Implying the high COP was real. Even high voltage ms and us surges through resistors are limited..

    If the resistor was rated in 1 or 2 W… It really is impossible I think..

    • 10W 1 ohm resistor—see image below.

  • Warthog

    I am referring to physical processes that obey exponential laws. With pH, it is the Nernst equation, expressed as powers of 10. With much of thermodynamics, the relationships usually contain e^kT (where T is absolute temperature). With radioactive decay, it is e^-kt (where t is time).

    In the real world, such systems are difficult to control and difficult to design control algorithms for. Differential equations are a tool to make such systems appear linear, and easier to treat mathematically. The reality of working with such systems is not nearly as easy as the mathematical expression thereof.

  • Engineer48

    As I see it now the Gullstroem theory suggests:

    1) The Rossi effect is aneutronic fission that disrupts the strong force bewteen the nucleus and a proton, resulting in that proton being ejected from the nucleus with a KE energy gain. This kicks the Ni nucleus, resulting in heating of the Ni matrix.

    2) The ejected proton, H+ ion, enters the plasma between the Ni wires and generates a current flow back to the control circuits.

    Gullstroem estimates there are between 10^12 to 10^15 such reactions per second, with the ejected proton having an energy of around 1MeV.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7fa996b73fa420bafea7bec3a2bda511eaedb773d389829af75b8fbdd7349eec.png

    From the demo we saw the QX release 20W of thermal energy and around 30W of electrical energy based on 0.1A flow through the 1 ohm resistor at 325Vdc being the min voltage needed to sustain a Hydrogen plasma at a min 10um gap. If the gap was wider then the sustain voltage is higher and the direct electrical output higher plus higher COP

    The ejection of an energetic proton was observed by Piantelli, which supports the Gullstroem theory as does the measured ion generated current flow and heating of the control box.

    So it seems Rossi may have developed an aneutronic fission reactor with 40% thermal output, 60% direct electrical output and a COP of at least 1,250.

    FRACK!!!!!!

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Interesting concept. If it is true, that is the obvious reason why Rossi did not want the voltage across the device to be measured — it was producing more ELECTRICAL ENERGY. The “controller” was acting like units that are dealing with the reactive energy portion of generated electricity. This fits the original story that Rossi told last year about this time about his “dream”.

    • Dr. Mike

      You may want to recheck your assertion that it takes 325Vdc to “sustain” the hydrogen plasma. This is not consistent with Rossi’s claim that the “on” resistance of the QX device is less than 1 ohm.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Dr. Mike,

        The min sustain voltage for a glow discharge is Hydrogen is known. I do stand corrected as the min voltage is ~280Vdc and not 325 Vdc as below:

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0f6066986e792ef6ffecea52b6bf1264e0a6a775dd17a6dfd736b30d1345c42f.gif

        At that min sustain voltage the mid range current is then say 100uA as below:

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ac1259f4d3e50f97344a221a33451f73e63103dabba34a642c6dc77b04a3bdbe.gif

        So input power to sustain the glow discharge should be 280 Vdc x 0.0001 Adc = 28 mW with an input resistance of approx 2.8 mOhm.

        However the voltage drop across the 1 ohm resistor shows there is a Dc current varying from close to zero to approx 0.2 Aac, average say 0.1 Aac with an approx 100 kHz freq. I assume this is an output flow of energy from the Positive Ion Current mentioned by Gullerstom.

        Of course with a very significant output flow of energy, the input impedance of the QX is much more difficult to determine.

        • Toussaint françois

          Great post !

          Cheers

        • Dr. Mike

          I agree that the voltage required to initiate the plasma (breakdown voltage) is somewhere on the order of 300V, but not that the QX device is producing 30W of electrical power. My assumption would be that the voltage waveform sort of observed on the nontriggered oscilloscope was superposition of the output of the controller and some small electrical output (feedback) of the QX devices, otherwise Rossi would not be trying to claim the power measured in the 1 ohm resistor to be the upper limit of the device input power. Note that with the fixed voltage scale and time scale on the oscilloscope, it was not possible to see if QX device was receiving high voltage pulses or MHz frequency signals from the controller.

        • orsobubu

          canceled

        • Gerard McEk

          E48, the DC current was about 300 mA, the AC current was 200 mA. If you calculate the resulting RMS current, you will find it is about 330 mA. That current should be used. You said also that 170J is being dissipated in the contol unit. That is continuous 170W. It means that the voltage over the control system is 515 V.
          The major question is indeed: does the QX generate that voltage or the control system. I am afraid that the test was not sufficient to determine that. If Andrea dit not change a thing after the QX test and before the dummies test, then you can say that the QX generated the AC part of the current. I do not think you can really calculate anything. I also tried, but there are too many variables and too many unknowns.

  • He took some measurements and ran the calculations. This was of minimal value, but I guess it’s a small step better than Rossi doing both.

  • Warthog

    A linear system is one which yields a straight line when the variable and equation yield are plotted against one another on linear graph paper. pH yields a straight line when plotted on semi-log paper. Even more non-linear systems can yield a straight line when plotted on log-log paper. Differential equations are a means of mathematically “linearizing” non-linear equations. Linear systems never involve exponential relationships.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_equation

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_system

  • Dr. Mike

    You asked many questions- I will try to answer a few. First, it does seem most likely that the primary purpose of the QX demonstration was to attract investors. In my opinion potential investors will want to see a lot more (a decent system COP) before committing funds for starting up production. However, there seems to be enough promise in the QX device, that someone might want to fund further development of the controller so that a reasonable system COP can be demonstrated.
    Reliability is not the same as working. Reliability is trust that the device will work consistently well, something that has never been demonstrated with any e-cat system. The whole issue of the IH lawsuit was that IH was not able to reproduce Rossi’s results from the information they were given. Although Rossi claimed the e-cat was working well during the 1MW system test, he also claimed that his customer (who was really himself) was happy with the steam being delivered, even though the customer actually used little or no steam.
    The primary reason that a COP of somewhere around 10 is needed for a useful system is that for any QX device system producing continuous heat, a significant portion of the system (modules of QX devices) must be replaced on a yearly basis. While I’m not sure of the life of a geothermal heat pump, I would guess it is a minimum of 15-20 years. The required COP of a QX device system will be determined by what it takes to make it competitive in cost with other energy systems when considering all costs of acquiring and operating the systems. This assumes that the QX device system would have reliability equivalent to the competitive system.

  • LilyLover

    Two types of observers, A & B.
    A: But 27 < 60, so, what's the point?
    B: 27 < 60, no point.
    R: I'll tell you the important point during important social-dinner.
    A: Sounds good.
    B: Bye, bye.
    **********
    A: So, you say that the 60 is constant and 100 ECatQXes will still consume 60W?
    R: Yes.
    A: So, why did you use only 3, not 10?
    R: To find out the A from the B.
    A: But you didn't let us see the inputs, or, open the controller.
    R: Yes.
    A: And … ?
    R: Are you serious?
    A: Yes.
    R: Well then, you know the model numbers of equipment, items, and space requirements for the real test.
    A: Do I buy those from you?
    R: No, silly, from the open market.
    A: Then what?
    R: You know the kind of people needed to handle those equipment.
    A: I'm sure we could arrange to find the in-house expertise.
    R: Then I could supply the 10 ECatQXes and the controller. Play as you wish.
    A: What if I open the insides and reverse engineer?
    R: Will you? Should I send you the sealed boxes that will self destruct and require a contract documentation? Or, should I trust you? Or, should I trust you but still be present for the test while your people play with it as they please? But, if the results meet your need, the partnership contract will be considered signed. Are you really interested? Do you have the production intent?
    A: Either works, but let me think. I need to get some approvals.
    R: Take your time. Think how you'd like to proceed. Let me wine-n-dine with A2.
    A: Thank you.
    R: You are welcome. & Thank you for your trust.

  • Stephen

    Indeed perhaps I should say dimensions, my point in referring to the link is more about whether of not it was possible to pass 20 W through the resistor in ms or us surges. My understanding after reading that link through is it is not possible, at least unless resistors of fairly high power rating are used.

    I’m curious what others think about that. I think it looks obvious from the wiring that high voltage surges were not used but maybe this could constitute some level of proof.

  • Warthog

    But we’re not talking about “systems of differential equations”. We are talking about ALL systems of physical phenomena. And I can promise you that when radioactive decay is taught in nuclear science classes, it is NOT the differential form that is used, but good old e^-kt (I minored in nuclear stuff on my way to a chemistry PhD). And in fact in NONE of my science classes (physics and chemistry) were things routinely expressed as differential equations when exponential laws were taught.

    • Bruce__H

      You astonish me!

      To go back to the fundamental remark that triggered all this, I would take “linear engineerring” as engineering systems whose laws of operation are linear. Technically “linear” means that if behaviour A is possible and behaviour B is possible then any linear combination of those 2 behaviours is also possible. If you have ever used Fourier analysis or transfer functions or eigenfunctions in engineering then it is linear engineering. Some sort of exponential is the fundamental behaviour of these linear systems although it may appear oscillatory instead (when the exponential is complex).

      • Warthog

        No, actually the remark that triggered “this” was about NON-LINEAR Engineering. Which is what all the types of complex math you keep dredging up are used to describe. Using differential equations and similar math tools to LINEARIZE non-linear systems doesn’t make them linear in nature.

  • Engineer48

    More QX energy calculations.

    Gullstroem tells us there are 10^15 reactions per second and each reaction releases 1MeV. Doing the maths that is 160 J. Applying the 3 sec on and 4 sec off ratio reduces that to 68 J. Which is per reactor.

    As there were 3 reactors we get approx 200 J. Assuming 20 J turned into heat that leaves 180 J to be released as electrical energy pumped back into the control box.

    Of course it would need a fan to keep cool.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      170 J/s = 170W. Next time they should ignore the QX and measure instead the thermal output of the control box 😉

      • Andreas Moraitis

        170 W average (or continuous) power, to be more precise.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Andreas,

          170 W is for 3x QX reactors. Each is say 56 W.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Andreas,

        Suggest Rossi knows exactly why there is a lot of thermal energy being dumped inside the control box.

    • Eyedoc

      E48, Your posts over the past few days have been quite interesting……I do think your calcs are on the mark, and makes the most possible sense of the puzzling scenario we witnessed…… I hope you keep playing with this ,,and maybe you (or MFMP) can actually put something substantive together on it….. If I can help in any way let me know.

      • Engineer48

        Hi EyeDoc,

        Comnents appreciated.

        Like I did with all other ECat data, I try to put together a picture of what all the available data is telling us.

        We know the min sustain and avg current of a H plasma.
        From the above, we can calc the input power and resistance.
        We know the thermal energy transferred into the heated water.
        We can estimate thermal losses from the black taped reactor.
        We know the wave shape, freq, min and max voltage and current passing through the 1 ohm resistor.
        We know the measured resistor currents are not required to sustain the plasma and are highly likely to be output currents generated by the QX.
        We know the QX had high voltage applied when Rossi stopped Mats from touching it.
        We know a glow is seen at the ends of the reactor.
        We know a click occurs when the glow starts.
        We know a click occurs when the glow stops.
        We know the measured experimental data presented in the Gullstroem paper.
        We know there was a fan cooling the control box.
        We know the heat generated by a glow discharge power supply is very low.

        From those presented data assumptions, based on existing physics and the experimental data shared, operational charactetists of the QX reactor can start to be put together.

        Which is what I’m trying to do.

        • Axil Axil

          See my “Rossi’s conference call” post above.

    • Dr. Mike

      Why would you base a calculation on what Gullstrom says in his theory (an unproven theory) and not on what Rossi claims (the QX device can output up to !0% electrical energy)? It really doesn’t seem logical to attribute properties to the QX device that even Rossi has not claimed to be true.

      • Engineer48

        Hi DrMike,

        Gullstroem quotes measured data as well as his theory.

        In email corro with Rossi he told me 25% min direct electrical generation was his goal.

        Seems he achieved that and a bit more.

      • Axil Axil

        The LENR reaction can produce energy is a number of energy formats that are all adjustable relative to each other based on system design.

  • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

    Something is entirely missing so far in this discussion, as far as I have seen. Mats and many others note that, if the controller is considered, there is no significant XP, because the need for controller cooling shows it is working hard. Some have speculated that the QX was generating electrical power and causing that overheating, but if so, a fairly simple arrangement in the device, within the calorimetric envelope, would have created even more (much more) local heat to measure!

    The device is a plasma device and requires triggering at high voltage (probably at least several hundred volts, Mats mentioned 1000 V, but this is all speculation, since measurement was not allowed. However, when the device is triggered, it gives off light and there was a sound. I’ve seen the figure that it was triggered every eight seconds. Say it was ten. This appears to be automatic, managed by the controller. As an engineer, I’d guess that triggering might be automatic when resistance rises from the device cooling more rapidly than any internal power generation could avoid. With each trigger, energy is dumped into the device, and it could be significant. (The trigger would be applied when resistance increases, and 800 ohms was probably not enough to trigger it, hence the Lewan 800 ohm test was probably useless.)

    Some have asked if 20 W could be passed through the one ohm resistor. Certainly it could. At high voltage, almost all the power will be dissipated in the highest resistance element, which at that point, since the plasma is no longer conducting, is the QX. The pulse duration might 500 msec (for ease of calculation, this is very rough, and it’s too bad that nobody collected the necessary data during the presentation), so to get an average power of 20W — and the calorimetry measured average power — would take a peak power of 400 W. At a kilovolt, that would be a peak current of 200 mA, the peak power dissipated in the 1 W resistor would be 200 mW. Not any kind of problem at all. at low duty cycle, the resistor could handle substantially more than rated power without burning out. The voltage could easily be lower….

    Some people seem to think that heavy wires are required to “carry” high voltage. No. heavier wires are required for high current, and those wires were plenty heavy enough for the likely currents involved. If the pulse width was low, they could carry even more current (for a short time). The basic issue with high voltage would be safety. There are many issues, and it’s complex.

    However, bottom line, the triggers being visible and audible indicates bursts of power input, and without this being measured, it is clear that energy input to the QX was understated. The entire output power might be introduced that way. The test was misleading, not just not completely disclosed.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      “With each trigger, energy is dumped into the device, and it could be significant.”

      Yes, this has been mentioned, and it creates indeed uncertainty. Impossible to assess this factor since the relevant data are not available.

      • Gerard McEk

        I believe the HV pulse was very short. Remember the determined frequency of the AC wave was in the order of 100 kHz. The HV pulse was just a vertical line on te scope that may have had a time base set at 20 usec/cm. The energy of the pulse of say 0.1 usec is very low, even at 1000V and every 0.5 sec repeated.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          The voltage could have been much higher than 1 kV. AR told Mats to keep a safe distance of at least 10 cm. Sparkover voltage in dry air amounts to about 27 kV/cm.

          Besides, we know nothing about the characteristics of the QX at the time of the ignition and shortly thereafter. It is not clear if the fuel is in a gaseous state all the time. Maybe it has to be vaporized again at the start of each cycle.

    • Gerard McEk

      Assume once on the QX is a voltage source with a near to zero resistance. The plasma will only stay on when the voltage is say 500 V. The control system has to do that. Below a certain AC current a positive HV pulse must be given. A positive HV pulse must also start the on-part of the sequence. A negative pulse is required to stop it.
      Measuring the voltage over the QX in combination with the current would lead to a conclusion that the QX is using 150W, while in real the control system dissipates it. This was not what Andrea wanted to demonstrate. However if this scenario would be true, why not measure the power at the grid side of the controller. Measure what it uses when the QX is on and when it is off? I asked for it in advance, but Andrea did not wanted to do that. Maybe the controller is not very efficient yet. We have to wait, I am afraid.

    • Dr. Mike

      Most of the engineers and scientists that observed the demonstration would be in general agreement with you in that the actual power to the QX devices was not measured. I didn’t really see it as misleading, rather I didn’t see the necessary measurements to verify any of Rossi’s assumptions and assertions relating to the QX input power.

      • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

        What was misleading was the focus on the steady state DC power, which was also not measured. So, then, Mats looked to see the behavior of the power supply with an 800 ohm resistor, which assumed that any input power would be steady state, and did not consider how the controller would know to fire the trigger voltage (probably resistance higher than 800 ohms). Yes, necessary measurements were not made, but that did not stop Hurley — if it was Hurley who wrote that, there are reasonable causes to doubt it — from issuing a report on the “COP.”

    • can

      Some people seem to think that heavy wires are required to “carry” high voltage

      You don’t need heavy wires to carry high voltage, but you need thick insulation to carry it around safely without the wires arcing over considerable distances to nearby conductors, fingers, etc. The photos show that Rossi et al. have been relatively casual with this aspect, so it’s unlikely that extremely high voltages were being carried from the control box to the E-Cat.

      It’s quite likely though that dangerous voltages were present.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Can,

        Agree.

      • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

        Of course you need insulation. But how much? VOMs come with test leads that must be able to insulate the maximum voltage the meter is rated for. I have here a VOM with a maximum DC input voltage of 1000 V. The leads look no thicker than what Rossi was using. Further, insulation ratings are typically quite conservative. The claim, then, from the appearance of the wires, that it’s “unlikely that extremely high voltages were being carried … to the ‘E-Cat'” is without foundation. Nobody has even suggested voltages higher than 1000 V, and it was probably less. It was definitely enough to trigger a plasma and possibly to quickly heat the plasma sufficiently for it to become low-resistance for a time.

        • can

          I was referring in particular to Axil’s suggestion that tens of kilovolt might have possibly been carried from the white box to the E-Cat QX on the table.

      • Axil Axil

        What makes high voltage dangerous is the amount of current that it carries. The spark that walking on a carpet carries a very high voltage up to 25,000 volts, but such a spark is not dangerous because that spark carries a very small current. But that spark can destroy a electronic circuit board if the person handling the board is not grounded.

        It is my guess that Rossi’s high voltage wires don’t carry enough current to be dangerous but can cause a shock that could be uncomfortable.

        • can

          According to oscilloscope readings, the current was higher than 0.4 A during the initial brief pulses, and peaked at 0.3 A afterwards at high frequency.

          This is quite enough to kill a person with much lower voltages. Paradigmnoia linked this page on LENR-Forum for reference purposes:

          https://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/JackHsu.shtml

          • Axil Axil

            I will take your word for it. But the duration of the pulse can produce huge INSTANTANEOUS POWER without carrying a lot of current.

            The current can pass through the body so fast (nanoseconds) that the body does not know that it is there.

          • Thomas Kaminski

            Remember that this is the current seen across a 1-ohm resistor and I suspect it is after the QX begins conduction. The body has several orders of magnitude higher resistance normally, less if submerged in a conductive solution. It is not clear to me if the current is due to the high voltage source alone, or is somehow related to a lower voltage source that provides the current after conduction starts.

            As an example, a typical flash tube, like those on cameras, has a few-hundred volt charged capacitor that does not cause conduction across the tube and a source with a tiny current of several thousand volts in a narrow pulse that starts the conduction. The high voltage pulse, though potentially causing a startle reflex, would not kill a person.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Abd,

      Your assertion that the “it is clear that the input to the QX was understated” is definitely true. However, the implication that the energy must have been higher than that computed could be way off. Since we did not get both the voltage across the device and current through the device measured on the same time scale, the device could have even been generating power.

      My take on it is that Rossi seems to have developed a new device that sustains a plasma at a low voltage (Mats measured a maximum voltage much less than 100 volts with the 800 ohm resistor) and that produces an excess of thermal energy as measured by calorimetry. That is astonishing. I wish Rossi had showed more details!

  • Stephen

    Thanks for taking the time to think about and respond to my questions.

    So as long as we don’t have more tan 1 W on average at a 1W rated resistor whether it is supplied in surges or continuously it will be ok. I think its consistent with the link too but I think you expressed it well too.

    I was actually wondering if 20W time average power from millisecond pulses of kV could pass through a low power rates resistor. But at least I think it’s fair to say we don’t want to dissipate average 20 W at the resistor anyway as that would rather defeat the point of the demo. Even if the resistor survived it.

    If the ecat has close to 0 resistance though in ON state then I suppose most the voltage would be across the resistor so high voltage surges at this time would dissipate across the resistor and these should not accumulate to exceed the Watt rating of the resistor either. In this On state. This was more my point.

    It seems however that the observed high voltage spikes occur to start ignite the device at the end of the part of the cycle when it is off.

    To me it seems that the ecat QX has a lot of similarities to a halogen lamp and maybe like those lamps operates with a ballast mainly to cope with the negative resistance of the lamp when it’s plasma is ignited. I appreciate that assuming one is present in the ecat QX is a speculation, but if would make sense given what we have been told about it.

    Could a ballast play resistive heating a role in the off state? I suppose even if it could it would be a bit much for that to account for 20W though?

  • Stephen

    Thanks for your considered responses to my questions too Abd, I think Matt’s got all the measurements he could and tried to find ways to get data we would otherwise miss and perhaps for good reasons Andrea Rossi was reluctant to give some of the direct measurements from the controller and across the device that we would like for clear proof. I think he was hoping the spectroscopy was going to back up his other data. But unfortunately that did not work out. It would at least have indicated a plasma was present rather than a resistor.

    That Frank and others have seen the device working naked and measured spectroscopically gives me faith that it is s plasma device of some kind at least.

    I was curious if we could find some simple proof by looking more deeply at what data we have and the detailed constraints of the devices and what they imply. Then if we assume a plasma device what that means or if we assume a resistive heating what that means.

  • Axil Axil

    [Menichella] Obsolete. And as for the differences with the Hot-Cat: I remember that at the time there were so many discussions on the blogs on the cat-mouse technology. Did you bring it that with you – so to speak – or is that a thing of the past too?
    [Rossi] It [could have been] observed today on the oscilloscope. That’s because we have an electric field with an electricity with particles that move only on one direction – in other words polarized on one only direction with a pulsing rhythm – and in those pulsations there’s the game of the cat and the mouse.

    —————————————————————————
    Regarding: The explanation of the Cat and Mouse synchronization

    In this paragraph above Rossi explains how the Cat and Mouse synchronization method works.

    This explanation is clear as day.

    First, Rossi says that the particles are polarized to move in just one direction.

    This is explained here in this post.

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5201-the-process-by-which-the-proton-decays-in-lenr/?postID=57281#post57281

    Next, the initial high tension arc discharge produces a phase transition in the polaritons(AKA EOVs) that allows energy to flow in just one direction.

    See this post regarding polaritons are EVOs.

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5447-ken-shoulders-the-man-who-made-black-holes/?postID=76762#post76762

    The subsequent complex sine signal as seen on the oscilloscope ​​( it could have been observed today on the oscilloscope.)​ is the method by which the SPPs are synchronized in the three QX reactors. This synchronization signal forces the three QX reactors to share a common state. These three reactors can be thought of as being entangled by that synchronization signal. The initial arc generated polarization of the polaritons insures that the multi-reactor syronication is achieved.

    Also see how the arc activates the LENR reaction and how self sustain mode occurs.

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5447-ken-shoulders-the-man-who-made-black-holes/?postID=76762#post76762

    • Engineer48

      Hi Axil,

      An arc is not needed to create a glow discharge.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b9eb87b8ac84b31b10329f940920b68d1d150e313a50062995ed2a3d3c189ec7.png

      Start at zero volts and zero current bottom left, then moving right, increase the voltage and observe the actions that occur.

      • Axil Axil

        The KERR effect requires a high voltage with a minimum of 30,000 volts. The yellow green light flash and associated sound at the back of the QX enclosure indicated a very high voltage discharge. Rossi’s patent states that the activation signal ranges from 50000 volts to 100000 volts,

        • Engineer48

          Axil,

          There are videos showing the light at the end of the reactor does not change change colour over the 3 minutes of on time. It is brighter at the start but then drops in intensity and stays around the same lower intensity.

          I also note the click sounds occurs at the start of the light on event and again at the end of the light off event. From this I suggest the sound is not an arc but a relay clicking on snd off.

          • Sounded like a relay to me too.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Mats,

            As you were there, that is good to know.

            BTW my study of the 2 Gullstrom papers and the experimental data is saying to me that maybe what is happening is aneutronic fission. Ie the nucleus loses a proton via the injected sigma meson messing up the normal pion (which is a meson) sharing between protons & neutrons, strong nuclear force, which drives isotopic (same neutrons change in protons) element shifts.

            This is VERY different to any other LENR fussion theories which suggests isotropic (same protons, different neutron) shifts.

            So analysis of QX ash will be VERY interesting.

            The ejected proton / fussion model also supports the positive ion output current.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Axil, do you have any idea how the frequency of the controller current relates to “resonance” in the coupled devices? Is there some effect where such a low frequency resonance exists, or is it just an occasional “tickle” to keep the reaction going? I think of molecular resonance as very high frequency — IR or visible light frequencies, for example.

      • Axil Axil

        One thing that I noticed is that there is a high voltage spike sometimes produced as shown on the scope just after the maximum peak of the complex sine wave. Where that spike is coming from is a question. It could be produced by the controller or it could be produced by the reaction as a feedback. That sine wave is controlling the reaction. It could be a “tickle” or it could be a “break”. One thing is for sure, that signal is at the heart of Rossi’s IP.

        see the signal here.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=wS7ge56CNhw

        • Thomas Kaminski

          I am not quite sure what you are referring to. Is it the short pulses (some seem positive, some negative and seem to occur in pairs) or are you referring to the pulse just after the first “click” after the quiet period? The first pulse after the quiet period is captured here:

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9433035f21a1570fb9d6bb9996e374d73636795663bb14018d5327b08ffc81b1.jpg

          That waveform looks like a lightly exponentially damped pulse, starting negative, with a frequency much lower that the high frequency wave form seen in the majority of the 3-second on period.

          • Thomas Kaminski
          • Axil Axil

            yes

          • Thomas Kaminski

            So we have a number of distinct waveforms present in the oscilloscope waveform:

            1). A quiet period with a low level signal that might just be noise.
            2). A “beat” waveform that seems to be riding on top os a base DC level. Estimates of the frequency of the “beat” waveform are int eh 100kHz range.
            3). A large negative pulse coincident with the bright flash of light. The pulse seems to be impressed on the “beat” waveform from 2) above. It has a lower oscillation frequency (about 15 times lower that the “beat”) with a damping factor over a few cycles.
            4). Thin pulses, both plus and minus that seem to occur near the peak of the sinusoid of the “beat” waveform, 2).

            I wonder which of these are generated by the QX?

          • Axil Axil

            #4 might or might not be generated by the QX.

            #3 is the first hyper fast waveform produced by the controller. It is close to the nanopulse pulse that the brillouin lenr reactor uses: Brillouin Energy’s Q-Pulse™

          • Thomas Kaminski

            I suspect that #2 is also modified by the QX, if not partially generated by it. Witness the way it changed when the 800 ohm resistor was applied.

          • Axil Axil

            Rossi states that no metal can be used near the QX because it would mess up the electrostatic fields that are driving things. #2 might be hypersensitive to a change in the circuit.

            That also could be the reason why Rossi did not want people to touch the wires that fed the QX…beside the high voltage danger.

          • Thomas Kaminski

            I forgot about that! Another interesting clue. The “beat” we see in #2 at around 100kHz might be be due to two very high frequency waveforms, like those used in dielectric heating or magnetic heating units. Metal would add inductance, magnetically de-tuning the resonant frequencies, or sucking away energy. Touching the wires would add capacitance, possibly de-tuning the controller circuit as well.

          • Thomas Kaminski
          • Stephen

            Hi Thomas you are quire right of course. I mentioned much the same in an earlier post on another thread. Think tuning you’re guitar.

            These kinds of resonance are some times seen in real time control where a driving frequency is close to the natural frequency of the device. This can be a natural frequency of a structure or due to the control cycle of the device for example. Usually for real time control one would want to design a device to avoid these kinds of resonances. But maybe for the E cat QX they are actually desired and required. I was also wondering if we maybe have resonances between the tree ecats or if it a resonance between the ecats and a driving signal.

            I suspect that may be he is able to get information from this signal by passing it through much quicker than using additional sensors due it’s responsiveness . And perhaps the processing power requirement is due to passing the signal through a Fast Furrier Transform (FFT) in real time and/or applying real time environmental modelling using Kalman filters etc.

          • Stephen

            I can’t help wondering if those resonances and beats have an acoustic counterpart and produce an acoustic hum. I guess from such a tiny device it would be in audible though…

          • Thomas Kaminski

            The signal is typical of a “beat” of 100kHz or so caused by the difference of two signals of 100kHz. The base frequencies might be 10MHz, separated by 100kHz, like 10.1MHz, 10.0MHz. I don’t think it is an audio note.

          • Rossi told me that anything in parallell with the QX would mess things up, or break things. That was one of the reasons that the voltage across the reactor could not be measured or monitored.

  • Stephen

    Your right about how they use the term negative resistance in this context I think.

    In case it is interesting to someone the following link might be useful to understand what I meant by plasma lamps…

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal-halide_lamp

    In particular the section on components explains a bit about ballasts, but it’s explanation quite high level I guess.

  • I explained the reason why it was meaningless to measure the input power to the control unit. It consumes power at the same order of magnitude that is measured to be released by the reactor. However, the most accurate way of measuring input power would obviously be this—measuring the power consumption at the input of the control unit, which would also give us the total system COP. We all know that, but as I understand Rossi he’s not there yet. I had several suggestions for measuring or monitoring the input voltage across the reactor, but he told me that nothing could be put in parallell with the reactor. He had tried that, he said, and it destroyed either the reactor or the circuitry. A part from it being difficult since you first would have to measure a HV pulse and then immediately afterwards a voltage of a few millivolts.
    In any case, regarding the input power and high voltage—if it is a plasma, then at the very same moment it becomes conducting the voltage across the plasma instantly falls to millivolts. Thus, there’s never any current while the voltage is high, and the integral of U and I will never yield any substantial power.
    Compare it to mechanics: Imagine a very hard but brittle material. You push it and it doesn’t move a bit. Then as you increase the force it suddenly breaks, and at that very moment the force you apply is reduced to zero. Since work in mechanics is the product of the applied force and the distance you move while applying that force, the work you do to break a hard, brittle material is very small. Remember that even if it takes a muscle effort to push something that is not moving, in a mechanical sense this is not work. Your effort is all released as heat inside the muscle.

  • Uploading the photo of the 1-ohm resistor on top too (uploaded on request further down as well).
    Haven’t had time to dismantle the pump yet—will do so but I’m fairly busy (with other stuff) at the moment.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0fda2148aa6960c92f73fd89fdab06e996d791f1c484be0d80cbd4eb95c66da0.jpg

    • Stephen

      Thanks very much Mats.

    • Dr. mike

      Mats,
      If you have time, it would be nice to verify the actual value of the resistor (assuming you have the proper equipment).

      • 1.1 ohm, measured now (also at the demo).

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Here is a data sheet on the family:

      https://www.vishay.com/docs/30113/cphivol.pdf

      Unfortunately, it does not specify an inductance value — wire wound resisters are typically inductive. It would be a good idea to try to see what that values is considering you saw signals with a frequency of about 100kHz. The reason that the inductance is important is that the reactance will be much higher than 1 ohm for signals with high frequency content, like the spikes we see on the trace.

      • Sorry, don’t have the equipment to measure inductance.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        At constant voltage, both current and power would decrease with rising inductance and/or frequency. Therefore, the inductance of the resistor shouldn’t be a problem. At the most, you would overestimate the power.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Thomas,

        Vishay are claiming their Dale series wire wounds are ideal for pulse applications. See link. Plus there would not be much inductance in a 1 ohm resistor and at 100kHz, there is probably no significant effect.

        http://www.vishay.com/landingpage/CLASSICSVSH/dalewirewounds.html

        • Thomas Kaminski

          I have no idea while they call them “ideal” for pulse applications. The CPL series (not CP) is rated as “low inductance”. Is it possible that they mean the inductance is a benefit in pulse applications? Don’t forget that the 100kHz is the sinusoidal part of the waveform — the fast pulses could have frequency components in the 10MHz + range.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Thomas,

            Consider the QX reactor operated for 1 hour with the 1 ohm resistor, it’s inductance and capatance in the circuit. Clearly it did not cause any issues.

          • Thomas Kaminski

            Causing “issues” is not so much what I was concerned about as some of the calculations of the peak currents on the short duration pulses. You can’t estimate the current by measuring the voltage if the current measuring resistor has an inductive component.

  • Axil Axil

    Pumping as a common source of input energy provides a common platform for synchronization between the reactors. In this video, the platform that the metronomes sit on is the pumping mechanism that synchronizes the activities of the reactors.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3aeqjeih0

  • Engineer48
    • Axil Axil
      • Engineer48

        Hi Axil,

        I did note the link was from LENR Forum.

        BTW do not think metalized hydrogen is necessary.

        Was not used in this Early Qx reactor.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b4b1a018443c4e7e4b18889e2d0aad87cefbb3294e4d2c5956d8a5fd8ce6c77c.png

        • Axil Axil

          Rossi is putting his pre prepared LENR fuel into the QX. That fuel contains the metalized hydrogen. That fuel makes the difference between an ordinary Hid bulb and the QX LENR reactor.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            Have not seen that claim before. Do you have a link?

            The Gullstrom papers suggest either LiAlH4 or just gaseous H2 is used.

          • Axil Axil

            Rossi says that the QX is covered by his patent. The patent says that he uses fuel in his reactors.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Interesting. However, the apparent resistance of the lamp in steady operation would come to about 200 (+- 50) ohm. This is hardly compatible with AR’s statement that the resistance of the QX is close to zero (conclude from this whatever you want).

      • Engineer48

        Hi Andreas,

        Consider the QX as a generator of electricity once the plasma kicks in and the reaction starts generation positive ions (protons), ie the Positive Ion Current of Gullsrtom.

        • Axil Axil

          The is also aluminum and lithium in that plasma.

      • Thomas Kaminski

        I agree with Engineer48 on this. I think that one reason Rossi did not want the voltage waveform recorded is that it would have shown a voltage generator.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          AR has stated since long that the QX produces an electric output, so there was no reason to hide it. More likely, he might have had trouble with the instruments. BTW if that problem was caused by the HV peaks, it could have been solved by using two resistors in series – one of high and one of low resistance – and measuring the voltage drop across the second resistor.

          | –Meter – |
          – R1 – R2 – – – –
          | – QX – |

          (Hopefully, this is readable – you can never know how disqus will display things.)

          • Andreas Moraitis

            No, it’s not readable – the meter should be connected to R2.

          • Thomas Kaminski

            The AP Note Engineer48 posted above clearly shows that you can measure both the 25kV pulse and the lower voltage (in the cases shown, a few hundred volts) with common instruments. Maybe my mods on your diagram are a bit better…

            | –Meter – |
            | – R1 – – – | – – – – R2 – – – –|
            | – – – – – – – -QX – – – – – – -– |

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Yes, that’s what I meant (R1 should have the lower resistance here). Unfortunately, this was not done at the demo.

      • Axil Axil

        I read the the plasma in the HID lamp has negative resistance and that it needs a ballast to control that resistance so that the plasma does not destroy the bulb.

    • Stephen

      Very interesting find this start up information etc for a he HID.

      Since Alfors in the LENR forum hinted at the possibility many months ago, it’s long looked like it has a lot in common with a plasma lamp of some kind to me. But with Hydrogen and Lithium in plasma state instead of a Halide.

      To me this is really interesting extra detail that seems consistent with that idea. Good find.

      I guess it would be interesting to look st the ballasts and controls of other kinds of plasma lamps too. Is something similar needed for a 20W halogen lamp for example?

    • Thomas Kaminski

      That Ap Note has a lot of information and describes a process that is simjlar to what the Rossi demonstration shows. I particularly like the waveform of the 25kV ignition — note the 500 ns/div time scale on the waveform. It is a very short pulse — not much energy in it compared to the rest of he waveform.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b115de3e5ccf005959b3ccc8b62bd1c184b87f0f6ffb275f623e6685bcf0ccee.jpg

      • Engineer48

        Hi Thomas,

        Yes the app note and waveforms are very interesting.

        What concerns me is the YellowGreen colour of the light leaking out the ends of the QX reactor housing is not the RedPink of a Hydrogen plasma.

        • Thomas Kaminski

          Actually, the spectral data that Rossi tried to show might be more informational about the color. I suspect that the colors emitted from the ends might be related to sealants or packaging. We never were shown the light directly coming from the device. Mats and Frank both saw the “bare” device. Let’s ask them!

          • Frank Acland

            The color of the plasma I saw was yellowish/orangish white. No blue or green hue.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Frank,

            It looks close to Atomic Oxygen Plasma. It is not the PinkRed colour of Hydrogen plasma.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/768d6cf616184db44af61ad4d42f5e92c560c19015da7fc0c554f24b145a3e6a.jpg

          • Frank Acland

            That was not the colour I saw.

          • Frank Acland

            Something closer to this to the best of my memory: https://www.google.com/search?q=%23fff8ea&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

          • Stephen

            So something like this at 2800 to 3000 K?

            http://www.lightwaveuk.com/led-technology/what-is-colour-temperature/

            Maybe we did see the BB spectrum. The coulor at least.

          • Frank Acland

            In the right ballpark, I would say.

          • Thinking about it, I believe it was somewhat blueish, after all. Blueish in the middle and more white-yellowish on the edge.

          • Axil Axil

            Was that reactor running at high power? The color is based on the power of the QX?

          • I wouldn’t know. Still switching on and off though, not to overheat.

          • Axil Axil

            Did Rossi ever voice concern about the QX melting down? Is that that what “overheat” means?

          • Again, I wouldn’t know. Overheat could mean melt, burn, break…

          • Bruce__H

            In that fuzzy first picture of the QX that Mr Rossi produced in 2016 (I think), the colour was very blue/white wasn’t it?

          • sam

            The webcast will be broadcast live on YouTube starting at 11:00
            a.m. US Central time. The link to access the webcast will be posted
            shortly before the meeting begins on this page: http://energy2point0.org/

            People who would like to suggest topics and questions for the
            Energy 2.0 Society to cover in the webcast may do so via email to: [email protected]

          • Stephen

            Hi Sam, since we were not able to see the spectrum during the demonstration. Do you think Andrea Rossi could show us an example of one during the webcast?

            Obviously it wouldn’t be a live spectrum but would be interesting if he was willing to share it nevertheless.

            I suppose he would need to be asked in advance though.

        • Charlie tapp

          I don’t believe the light is leaking out on closeup looks as though the reactor tube is putties in with something brown and the clamp bolts are pushing against on each side light is just arc jumping to and out of reactor body?

        • Axil Axil

          The electrostatic field that is produced by the activating arc need not pass through the plasma in the tube. The arc may occur external to the tube. You are right that the arc flash would be red if it was produced by the plasma in the tube.

      • Rene

        Note also that the complex controller in an automobile HID lamp is rated at 85% efficiency.

    • just likes engineering

      Thanks for sharing. Glancing through it cooled my hard-SciFi jones for week. Ahh….

    • Omega Z

      I’m curious as to how old you think William Hurley is.
      I’m trying to determine if he’s old enough to fit a profile I came across. If so, he may have a lot of past experience/skills across many energy fields.

      • Sorry—wouldn’t know. But as I said at the demo, he claims to have a background in nuclear plants and in refineries.

    • Vinney

      Hello Mats,
      Rossi has a shot at Hot Fusion research in his interview with Vessels Romanova (on the Stockholm QX demo), he mentions the ‘impracticality’ of adding new fuel (potential to damage the reactor walls).
      He believes its still 50 years away.

      • He’s not alone. I think if we make a poll here at ECW, most would have doubts about the feasibility of plasma fusion for energy production in a reasonable future.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    ARM, actually with wire wound resistors, the inductance is considered in series with the resistance. The resistance is a property of the wire length, diameter and material used. The inductance is computed by the length, diameter, and number of turns. I do not know what the inductance value is for the resistor. One could measure it with the proper instruments. I am tempted to buy one and see, but my preferred supplier (Digikey) does not have any in stock.

  • Omega Z

    For what it’s worth, Rossi thermal tile performed very well with 16% efficiency. But the research conducted for the DOD had different aims. It was to push the technology to see where future research funding/grants should be focused. It is there job to encourage research in certain areas. Not to create products ready for market.

    Also, the contract was with Concurrent Technologies Corporation (CTC) who managed the entire project and LTI global which happened to include Rossi. ie, it wasn’t a Rossi only venture. That research included dozens of people and several engineering companies along with University participation.

  • Engineer48

    Lets discuss the 1100 nm far IR spectrometer results from the 1st Gullstrom paper

    Is it accepted the 1100 nm claim is the temp of the plasma or the temp of the Ni rod or what?

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/45f47544eec30251b4db867d39288279e3b7ccbd680b9e4e1985c99c65eb3dcc.jpg

    Is it accepted that the emission surface was a perfect black body as claimed?

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f7831665b77b85f94ebae6a1a1693b29ec309b7cb0d7490eb8a5a97a4d8c3d26.png

    I bring this up because Frank Acland personally attended a private viewing of this test and inspected the raw and open QX reactor.

    http://e-catworld.com/2017/11/27/takeaways-from-stockholm/

    An event we seemed to have ignored.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/80cd559557e91d13edb30a51132d33f4f3b699aef6c31a903736a597417c2894.png

    • Axil Axil

      In the QX, there is light that is coming from many and varied wavelengths. Rossi must be looking for the primary infrared line on the assumption that that dominate infrared wavelength supports COP calculations based on heat output. The amount of energy produced by light is disregarded.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Axil,

        Rossi detected 1,100 nm radiation for the temp and power calc. That is FAR InfraRed. Long way below anything visible.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/68d3c3f501db34ae6b21bf7f367d1be4355848c12d3dc141acf8ff1988b68997.png

        • can

          The peak is in the infrared, but the curve is partially in the visible range, which should give the blackbody color. This is assuming we’re referring to a perfect blackbody.

          https://i.imgur.com/vBAbqJN.png

          • Engineer48

            Hi Can,

            Nice data.

        • Stephen
          • Stephen

            This is intersting though as normally plasma lamps are not producing their light from a BB spectrum but from emission lines like the ones you have been considering and the “colour temperature” in theses lamps is chosen by mixing gasses so those emission lines combine in particular over all colour.

            So where does the BB spectrum come from?

            Both Carl and Andrea claim to have observed it.

            Does the gas/plasma need to be optically thick to produce a BB spectrum like this it or will it occur naturally in the gas even when not optically thick

            In lamps, they are built to optimise the light out put ( even though the heat output is still much higher) So those emission lines from the different gasses are important. They are bright optical emissions and gasses can be combined to generate almost any over all colour.

            For the Ecat QX optimised for heat the optical emissions are less important. So I wonder if this also needs consideration. Even though they are at a much lower temperature, It might be intersting to look at halogen lamps for cookers for comparison.. (I haven’t done this yet).

            I think the hydrogen emission line might still be there but with much less over all intensity that the optical part of the BB spectrum.

          • Stephen

            Remember Andrea Rossi’s New Year’s Eve dream 2015/2016. Before even the IH dispute came to court.

            A street lamp that could provide heat and electricity to the local community…

            Perhaps he was telling everyone what he had all along.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Yes, the orange color would be difficult to explain by emission lines (except if there was, for example, sodium present). I guess that the BB-like radiation from a plasma has its origin in Bremsstrahlung. The denser the plasma, the higher the similarity to a ‘genuine’ BB. In low density plasma, spectral lines will dominate.

          • Stephen

            Yup I have read somewhere that in some high energy plasmas when the plasma is relatively dense some observers see a yellow brown colour from bremstrahlung due to electron interaction with nuclei.

            If I find the link again I will post it

            I wonder if the hint of blue Mats saw in the core of the plasma is from an emission line… Or if it was extreemly hot in the core.

  • Axil Axil

    Paradigmnoia does it again. The signal on the oscilloscope is an AM RF signal that is n the range that is used to drive cold plasma … plasma balls.

    A close match is 83.03kHz being modulated by 9.5kHz
    83.03kHz * ABS(9.5kHz)

    Glow discharge plasmas: non-thermal plasmas generated by the application of DC or low frequency RF (<100 kHz) electric field to the gap between two metal electrodes. Probably the most common plasma; this is the type of plasma generated within fluorescent light tubes

    From Wiki

    Glow discharges operated in radio-frequency. The use of this frequency will establish a negative DC-bias voltage on the sample surface. The DC-bias is the result of an alternating current waveform that is centered about negative potential; as such it more or less represent the average potential residing on the sample surface. Radio-frequency has ability to appear to flow through insulators (non-conductive materials).

    Both radio-frequency and direct-current glow discharges can be operated in pulsed mode, where the potential is turned on and off. This allows higher instantaneous powers to be applied without excessively heating the cathode. These higher instantaneous powers produce higher instantaneous signals, aiding detection. Combining time-resolved detection with pulsed powering results in additional benefits. In atomic emission, analyte atoms emit during different portions of the pulse than background atoms, allowing the two to be discriminated. Analogously, in mass spectrometry, sample and background ions are created at different times.

  • Engineer48

    Some updates from a conversation with Frank which has lead to a possible QX reactor design.

    Reactor is in a clear tube.
    2 cm OD.
    1.2 cm ID.
    4 mm tube wall thickness.
    No visual evidence of any LiAlH4 film coating on the inside of the clear tube or anywhere else.
    2 x Ni rods 1 cm in diameter.
    Rods were solid.
    Rods were treated in some way.
    Ends facing into the gap are rounded, not flat.
    Gap 1.5 cm.
    Rods protrude 1.5 to 2 cm into the space.
    Plasma covers the whole volume of the rod diameter and gap.
    Not a vacuum.
    Gets very hot, very quickly.
    Was connected to the control box via solid bare copper wires.
    Probably because the wires get hot, as does the reactor, and would melt the insulation.
    Plasma is OrangeYellow, it moves and has floating bright spots.
    Was operated 1 sec on and 4 sec off.
    No flash at turn on.
    Plasma intensity stays constant.
    Plasma colour is constant.
    No colour change from start up to running.
    Light intensity was mild.
    Easy to look at.
    Did not strain the eyes.
    Measurements done were close to those in the 1st Gullstrom paper.
    This is the reactor frank saw.
    Was to the right of the control box it is sitting on.
    Between the reactor and the control box was another board with the 1 ohm resistor.
    All connected together by thick bare copper wires.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7da556f8e4bbda86477bcf20bf112311822331823ae8e793c0ad4d5902ec1f0b.png

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2af5e70a52b9474abc962e9bbce5f514ab3d3968039601f8ae6f114009462487.png

    • Thomas Kaminski

      This differs from Rossi’s stated size of the “QX” as 06mm X 0.08mm — about the diameter of a human hair. Has he improved the device, reducing the size?

      • Frank Acland

        Yes, it is much smaller now. I think I saw an early prototype.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Frank,

          Rossi told me the open unit you saw was a special design for spectrometric measurement and was never intended for production.

          • Engineer48

            Frank,

            Someone modified my above post, changing spectrometric measurement to spectrum trick.

            Not nice.

          • Buck

            Very not nice! ! !

      • Engineer48

        Hi Thomas,

        Current QX draws the same input power as smaller version but only 60W output vs 245W for the larger version. So smaller unit has lower COP.

        Might suggest reduction in size was maybe driven by $/W cost optimisation?

      • As far as i understand Rossi says that the active region with plasma has those tiny dimensions, while the reactor and the gap between the nickel rods still has the dimensions as mentioned in the Gullström paper.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Mats,

          Excellent information.

          Remember Frank said the ends of the Ni rods facing each other were not flat but were curved or rounded. That would concentrate the E field and highest plasma density to the point of min gap.

    • Axil Axil

      Did Rossi say that the material in the “hair” channel is LiAlH4? if it is, the QX is easy to duplicated. I contend that this Hair channel material is Rossi’s fuel.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Axil,

        Frank said Rossi told him the 1 cm dia rods were Ni.

        The Rossi & Gullstrom paper states LiAlH4 is involved.

        Rossi told Frank the Ni rods were processed, “so to speak”.

        Frank saw nothing coating the inside of the clear tube containing the 2 Ni rods that had curved / rounded surfaces facing each other. So where did the once vapouriser Al and Li deposit on as they cooled? Maybe on the Ni rods from electrostatic attraction than on the no charge clear tube?

        Frank also told me there were no visible holes in the Ni rods.

        Mats said Rossi told him it was the plasma between the curved rod faces that was hair like,

  • Frank Acland

    I saw no blue nor pink hues.

  • Buck

    Rossi must be feeling very upbeat to continue to share this level of detail.

    ============================

    Anonymous
    December 6, 2017 at 5:54 AM

    Dr Andrea Rossi

    How much is the energy consumed by the E-Cat QX and for what is used the energy consumed by the control system that is not consumed by the E-Cat QX itself?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Andrea Rossi
    December 6, 2017 at 9:07 AM

    Anonymous:

    Let’s take the numbers obtained during the Stockolm test.

    To produce 20 Wh/h the E-Cat QX consumed 0.16 x 3/7 = 0.07 Wh/h, operating at about the 30% of its continuous operation rating. This is the amount of energy that the control board supplied to the E-Cat QX. Actually, considering the integrals of the waves, the consume is
    considerably less, but this makes things complicated, so just forget the integrals.

    The control box produces also heat, the amount of which varies depending on many factors and this heat can be fully recovered for other uses, with a COP close to 1 ( it will be 1 minus the energy consumed by the E-Cat, circa). The by product obtained will be heated fluid, for example air or water, that can be used for other purposes not necessarily connected to the E-Cat. For example ( just one example among an endless series) : the E-Cat, with its COP, supplies energy to make electricity or steam, while the control box supplies heat to help a heating system or an air conditioned circuit.

    The energy by-produced by means of the control box, anyway, is destined to fade in time, because the engineering we are developing for the industrialization will reduce dramatically the heat dissipation of the components.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      As long as the output of the QX is not significantly higher than the system input, there is only one option: measuring the heat that is released by the control box. That might be tricky, but is certainly not impossible.

    • Axil Axil

      The QX reactor is a system that is based on the design of the high-intensity discharge lamps (HID lamps). This lamp system is a type of electrical gas-discharge lamp which produces light by means of an electric arc/rf signal excited between metallic electrodes housed inside a translucent or transparent arc tube.

      Like other lamps of the type which includes the fluorescent light, a ballast is required to keep the plasma from distruction. One of the results of the ballast approach is that a portion of the energy used to drive the discharge lamp is dissipated in the ballast. There are two types of ballasts used in these systems, a solid state ballast and a inductive ballast.

      The solid state ballast will produce more heat than the inductive ballast since the inductive ballast dissipation is caused only by the relatively small resistance in the windings of the inductor.

      A high efficiency solid state ballast runs at about 90% efficiency whereas the inductive ballast runs at 95% efficiency.

      This fact about plasma discharge lamps indicates that Rossi will always generate heat in his controller.

      It seems to me in closing, Rossi took the design if the HID lamp and coated the outside nickel electrodes with his fuel. The fuel will release metallic hydrogen into the plasma envelope. This LENR activator will add LENR energy generation to the plasma mechanism when excited by the RF signal.

    • Dr. Mike

      First, Rossi is not sharing any level of detail- he is quoting a calculation from the demonstration in which he claimed that the QX devices consumed less than 0.07W-hr/hr. Let’s look at this number and see if it makes any sense. Where does the heat generation in the controller come from? It basically comes from the inefficiency in the electrical circuitry of the controller converting input electricity to the output electrical waveforms necessary to drive the QX devices. Let’s assume that the controller is really inefficient, and it only converts 10% of its input electrical input power to the desired output required to drive the QX devices. How much heat would be generated in the controller? The answer is 0.63W-hr/hr. Would this much heat require active cooling? Not a chance! Perhaps the controller is so poorly designed that it converts only 1% of its input electrical power to useful electrical output waveforms for controlling the QX devices. The amount of heat generated in the controller would be 6.93W (99% heat and 1% useful power-0.07W to the QX devices). Even if one would add in a potential 2W (10% of the output of the QX devices) as feedback from the QX devices back to the controller, the total heat power in the controller operating at 1% efficiency would only be 8.93W, hardly enough to require active cooling.
      If it is assumed that the controller’s present efficiency is 1% or less, Rossi really wouldn’t be talking about now working on a system to utilize some of the heat generated in the controller. He would be discussing how he is going to make the controller more efficient (not miniaturize the controller). The logical conclusion from Rossi’s focus on utilizing waste heat from the controller, rather than the electrical efficiency of the controller, is that the controller is really delivering significantly more power to the QX devices than Rossi has claimed in his demonstration. Leaving the oscilloscope in fixed voltage and time scales prevented from seeing what waveforms were really being delivered to the QX devices. Alternatively, Rossi’s claim that the input resistance of the QX devices being less than 1 ohm has not been verified, and therefore the QX devices may be receiving much more power than claimed.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    As far as I remember, AR said that the photo was modified. So maybe the original color was different.

  • Stephen

    Intersting paper on Springer about bremstrahlung radiation and the Black Body profilein plasmas…

    http://www.springer.com/cda/content/document/cda_downloaddocument/9783319006116-c2.pdf?SGWID=0-0-45-1398306-p175157874

    Whilst optically then the profile is more bremstrahlung like but as it becomes optically thick it approaches a Black Body like spectrum.

    Usually plasmas are optically thin plasma lamps etc. I’m not sure if this is the case for the ecat QX. The paper explains hos to calculate the power from the bremstrahlung emission spectrum if that is needed. Perhaps if is anyway close to that derived from the Stefan Boltzmann law assuming a black body spectrum.

    Could be interesting to check.

    Also would bd nice to see if the spectrum has the clear peak in the profile of a BB if the flatter profile of Bremstrahlung.

    • Axil Axil

      Bremstrahlung is not involved because Bremstrahlung will produce x-ray and gamma radiation and no such radiation is seen coming from the QX. The light and heat production mechanism probably comes from polariton light release as polaritons are created and die in a rapid cycle.

      The balls of light that frank saw in his demo was produced by polariton based solutions supported by metallic hydrogen that behave like ball lightning.

      • Stephen

        Yup the balls and points of light he mentioned are certainly interesting. I’m really curious about them too.

        That those points of light are seen does imply the plasma was likely not optically thick.

        If those characters turns out to be explained by polaritons or charge cluster I will also be very happy. It’s intriguing and amazing science if that works out so I am following your ideas with interest.

        Wouldn’t the X rays and high energy emissions in Bremstrahlung depend on the velocity of the electrons though? in a thermal plasma they would be traveling at speeds consistent with the electron plasma temperature rather than at much high speeds associated with beta emissions.

        • Axil Axil

          It seems that a light that is driven by ionization of various elements would have a constant color output based on the electron excitation profile of each element. For example sodium is yellow and iodine is red.

          But the QX has an adjustable color output profile based on the adjustments made in the input RF excitations. This indicates that the ionic excitation mechanism is not where most of the light comes from in the QX.

          Polaritons produce variable color output when excited

          see

          https://www.nanowerk.com/nanoplasmonics.php

          • Stephen

            I fully agree the broad spectrum he describes is not due to line emission spectra from ionic excitation.

            I think most would agree thag that certainly comes from a broader source.

            Is there a particular spectrum profile of something associated with a polariton source that could be looked for? If this is a different profile than we would expect from other sources such as bremstrahlung of Raleigh scattering it could be really interesting to look for.

          • Axil Axil

            The spectrum of the light produced by polaritons have a double side line on ether size of the peak. This is the harkmark of laser light.

            The light produced by the QX comes from a side emission channel. The light generated by the quark is not blackbody.

            New research into polariton condensates has revealed a side emission channel that produces light whose frequency is proportional to the density of the polariton aggregation…the dense polariton condinsate produces a higher frequency light (blue) and a less dense condinsate will produce red light. Rossi must have a way to control the density of the polariton population; probiply from the RF input signal. The color of the light can be adjusted by the adjusting the pumping level of the polaritons so that any color can be produced. .

            The color of the light generated by the condinsate is controled by the level of “pumping” that determings the density of the polariton condinsate.

            See

            https://phys.org/news/2016-06-superconductors-lasers-bose-einstein-condensates.html

            for details see

            https://www.nature.com/articles/srep25655

            “While our measured PL spectra consist of the main peak and the high-energy one, this theory predicts the asymmetric triplet peaks. Our observation has a potential to demonstrate a strong coupling of an electron and a hole under a lasing phase and further leads to deepen non-equilibrium and dissipative many-body physics.”

            I say that the light comes from polaritons. This polariton origin of the light can be verified because the light is coherent and will show the Mollow triplet in its spectral lines. Polaritons produce laser light and any atom that is irradiated using laser light will show a Mollow triplet.

            https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Mollow_triplet.pdf/page1-800px-Mollow_triplet.pdf.jpg

          • Stephen

            Well that certainly seems to be something that could be looked for and verified. Which is the hall mark of so good theory in my book.

            Hopefully someone will take look… or give you the opportunity to do so.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        „will produce x-ray and gamma radiation”

        Bremsstrahlung occurs whenever charged particles are decelerated. Its energy/frequency depends on the difference in the kinetic energies before and after deceleration – so it can well be below the X-ray range. In dense plasma, there will be many collisions of particles whose energies vary stochastically. Thus you get a broad spectrum of bremsstrahlung, very similar to the spectrum of a black body. In low-density plasma (as in neon lamps) there are fewer collisions, so that the spectral lines outweigh the ‘black body’ component.

  • Axil Axil

    Here is a video from Paradigmnoia that shows how these high-intensity discharge lamps works

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=f50hLYv83-o

    • Engineer48

      Hi Axil,

      Nice find.

  • Axil Axil

    It seems to me that duplicating the QX is not that hard. Most of the system can be lifted from high-intensity discharge lamp methodology. The key ingredient is the LENR fuel that is performed by a long duration hydrogen excitation process.

    But the metallic hydrogen might be had by extracting it from 5 year old depleted AA nickel hydride batteries as I have posted about.

    Holmlid has also just released a patent that shows how to produce metallic hydrogen using his method.

  • Axil Axil

    It is possible as an alternative to using LENR fuel, to process the surface of the nickel electrodes with pits and bumps as mizuno does in his substrate preparation process.

    Rossi states on his patent that the LENR reaction occurs in the cavities in the metal surface. Rossi also said that the reactor occurs in the “hair” channel. That channel may have undergone a process where cavities were generated.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Axil,

      I expect cracks are not so important as COG is proposing a new theory on how to use photons and electrons to alter Pion activity, to modify the strong force, to slowly release the KE stored in the nucleus and via the modifed strong force, protons and neutrons can be easily exchanged between near by atoms.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    ARM,

    The “Reactance” (XL) of the inductor for a sinusoidal excitation is related to the inductance (L) in Henrys times the frequency (F) in radians per second:

    XL = 2*pi*F*L

    At DC, the inductance has Zero reactance. As the frequency increases, the reactance does too.
    The point is, that with a high frequency excitation, the resistance value has to be increased by the reactance of the inductor.

  • Engineer48

    Interesting comment at 2:40:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5H4yK_tiGI

    “They neutralise Mesons. They are the atomic glue that holds matter together”

    Klingon Disruptors in 1953, reinvented in 2017?

    • Axil Axil

      John Hutchison, Ken Shoulders friend developed this disruptor and the government took all his equipment for evaluation. Like the Martians, the magnetic monopole field will disrupt matter as Hutchison showed.

      See this video and notice John Hutchison;s mention of monopole magnetic fields.

      https://youtu.be/xeUgDJc6AWE?t=268

      • Engineer48

        Hi Axil,

        Would love to see the H field contours generated by a monopole? Care to share?

        How does this monopole H field disrupt pi Mesons from carrying and exchanging the strong force between nucleons inside the nucleus?

        We do know from well established Compton Scattering physics that photons can impact and be absorbed by Mesons and the emitted photon wavelength can tell us information about the Pion.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0b33627f60e80594b019ee30bf1791b76f87d4563d6cd850323388a1bf9fec19.png

        I find it comforting that the Rossi & Gullstrom theory needs no new physics nor new particles.

        • Axil Axil

          This is not easy to understand.

          I have recently run across an interesting tidbit when looking at the instanton write up in Wiki.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instanton

          This added mass comes from the creation of instantons as magnetic vortex packets that add mass to the quark.

          “In 3-dimensional gauge theories with Higgs fields, ‘t Hooft–Polyakov monopoles play the role of instantons. In his 1977 paper Quark Confinement and Topology of Gauge Groups, Alexander Polyakov demonstrated that instanton effects in 3-dimensional QED coupled to a scalar field lead to a mass for the photon.”

          I then looked up an associated paper by N. Seiberg, E. Witten

          https://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/9407087

          Monopole Condensation, And Confinement In N=2 Supersymmetric Yang-Mills Theory

          What this says is that monopole magnetism can condense in the vacuum and form particles that have mass. When mass is added to the hadron, mainly to quarks, they decay into mesons.

          It seems to me that spin is important in LENR because spin somehow correlates with mass. The key to the LENR reaction is the production of additional mass of the quarks that comprise hadrons(protons and neutrons) . This change in quark mass is induced by unbalanced magnetic field lines. This type of anisometric field lines produces an increase in the effective spin of the quark which will add energy to the quark.

          http://members.home.nl/skoric/quantum/laughlin.jpg

          Monopole magnetism adds two instantons to each quark inside the proton and neutron that changes them into unstable quark flavors.

          Balanced magnetic field lines do not increase the spin of the quark. When the quantum of additional spin energy is reached, the quark will convert that spin energy into the additional mass of two instantons. When mass is added to a quark, the flavor of the quark changes and the quark will jump to the next higher flavor. For protons and neutrons in an anisotropic magnetic field, the up or down quark will transform into a strange quark, the flavor that is the next up in energy/mass size. This change in quark flavor will convert a proton to other subatomic particles that end up as kaons.

          Actually, things get more complicated. The lambda is a baryon which is made up of three quarks: an up, a down and a strange quark. Based on the amount of magnetic energy that is pumped into the proton or the neutron, however, a variety of different Lamba particles can be produced. The third converted quark might be strange, charm, beauty, bottom, or top. This Lambda particle will decay in short order to produce a zoo of different decay particle types including the kaon.

          And then things get even more complicated when subatomic molecules form.

          http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2015/apr/07/mysterious-baryon-resonance-is-a-subatomic-molecule-say-physicists

        • Axil Axil

          I will try something that is more easy to understand.

          The metallic hydrogen that produces the LENR effect, generates a monopole magnetic field.

          This hydrogen molecule acts like a monopole.

          LION produced a reactor that created this metallic hydrogen and it left a tract in copper oxide that was predicted that the monopole would produce. This track was seen on SEM by MFMP and was filmed. The monopole punched holes in the copper oxide at regular intervals as predicted by theory as the monopole moved over the surface of the oxide along a straight track,

          MFMP also showed the disintegration of a plastic container containing LENR fuel produced by the Indian LENR reactor builder. There were also monopole tracks seen in that plastic as the monopoles ate away the plastic over a three week period.

          Monopoles has long been predicted to decay protons.

          See

          https://www.npl.washington.edu/av/altvw01.html

          When Proton Meets Monopole

  • Engineer48

    Interesting numbers from Rossi:

    $10/kWt reactor cost.
    $1/kWt yearly fuel cost.

    If the reactor lasts 10 years = $1/year plus $1/year for fuel = $2/year costs for 8,760 kWh(t) or $0.000228/kWh(t).

    Those numbers blow away anything solar and batteries can achieve.

  • Axil Axil

    Adding LiAlH4 to the contents of the QX tube would generate Aluminium vapour when the QX was operating. That vapor would condense on the tube walls when it cooled and render the reaction channel too conductive to allow for re-ignition.

    Rossi might get around the Aluminium vapour issue by preprocessing the nickel electrodes in an off line process as Rossi does with the fuel, The LENR active agent would be deposited on the surface of the nickel electrode with little aluminum being added to that surface. Piantelli does this sort of surface/fuel preparation process when he prepares his nickel rods. From what I have seen in the SEM micrographs of ME356 fuel particles, those particles are LENR active after a long fuel prep process where the LENR active agent pops out of the fuel hydride particles and moves around on the supporting carbon substrate producing transmutations in that substrate.

    Those LENR active agents might form those balls of light that float around the reaction chamber when energized by the RF signal.

  • Axil Axil

    To my way of thinking, there are two mechanisms that will carry the polaritons in the LENR reaction that could possibly apply to the QX type system. Metallic Hydrogen and/or lithium, or the nanoparticle based reaction.

    The nanoparticle based reaction happens in a dusty plasma, but the Metallic hydrogen mechanism happens when a preprocess based fuel preparation process is used.

    The observation of a clear tube indicates that a electrode pre preparation process is used to carry the Metallic hydrogen into the sealed tube via the electrodes. The metallic hydrogen exits from their site of creation and these particles are free to move around inside the tube.

    The metallic hydrogen hypothesis would also predict that the QX is subject to potential meltdown if the control of the QX is mismanaged. Metallic hydrogen has no temperature limit on how hot a LENR reaction that it can produce.

  • Axil Axil

    The QX control box produces heat and requires high cooling requirements that use lots of power. I believe that this heat is caused by the generation of reactive power in capacitive and inductive factors in the QX that the QX is generating to resists the power that is driving its 8 second operating cycle. The generation of this reactive power is to be expected since Plasma based lamps that closely resemble the QX reactor produces this reactive power.

    The Fix for this heat generated by reactive power in the QX is to add inductive and capacitive power storage to the QX controller.

    I found a explanation of reactive power that is alway present in AC based systems as follows:

    https://www.electricaltechnolo…ce-of-reactive-power.html

  • Axil Axil

    Since the QX and fluorescent lights are both plasma based systems, they might share the same lifetime shortening behavior of turning the systems off and on frequently. The QX life expectancy might be maximised is the QX is keep active continually without interruption.

  • Axil Axil

    ​Rossi was asked if the LENR reaction only occurs in the submillimeter sized pintpoint of plasma located in the center point between the electrodes. He did not answer.

    It seems to me that the plasma is just a reaction stimulating mechanism(like a spark) that pumps energy into the ball lightning like lights that float around inside the entire interior volume of the QX tube.

    In other words, If the LENR reaction is only produced inside the submillimeter sized pinpoint of plasma​, the power density of the reaction would be too great to keep the plasma temperature between 2000k to 3000k​. A plasma temperature of 10s of thousands of degrees would be required to produce 100 watts of power. For example, the tungsten filament inside a 100 watt light bulb is far bigger than the volume of the plasma ball. This also means that the measurement of COP by spectroscopic means is invalid since the plasma does not produce the LENR reaction.

    If the LENR reactive medium was not present in the QX and no LENR reaction was occurring, then the plasma would still produce the same light output.

    • Ted Rygas

      In my opinion:
      1. The LENR effect is related to the state of nucleus known as “nuclear hyperpolarization”. This effect is initiated at low temperatures. Rossi uses a hydraulic press and compresses his nickel rods in a compression device immersed in liquid nitrogen. The time is about 2 –
      5 days and the pressure is gradually increased. The nuclear hyperpolarization effect is durable and survives under the conditions of Quark QX. Nuclei which are hyperpolarized have a response to the NMR signal about 10,000 times stronger than those that are not hyperpolarized. Hyperpolarization effect is generated under cryogenic conditions and persists for a long time under normal temperatures.
      2. Polaritons resonate with the hyperpolarized nuclei – this is the Rossi’s advantage over others. This is a laser-like effect.
      —————————
      This opinion comes really from my friend, whos prediction of the Quark QX frequency was quite close to what Rossi said (Rossi: 80 +/- 10 kHz, friend: 60 kHz). Pro publico bono (if this method works, it should not be patented).

      • Ted Rygas

        Some more opinions from my friend:
        1. Adamenko/Vysotskij are not correct.
        2. Konstantin Meyl is “mostly” correct (scalar waves).
        3. Metalic hydrogen is not playing a role in LENR, but polaritons do play a role in LENR.

      • Axil Axil

        If “nuclear hyperpolarization” is happening, I would guess that Para-Hydrogen Induced Polarization (PHIP) would be easier to perform requiring a noble metal catalyst to preprocess the hydrogen.

        Rossi and others have stated that AlLiH4 is used in the QX but I cannot find any eyewitness evidence that any of that chemical is inside the QX because the tube is completely clear of surface contamination when the QX is both hot and cold.

        Lithium is highly corrosive of just about any chemical compound. It is hard on reactor components.

        Rossi might use a fuel preprocessing step where the LENR active agent is generated offline. That agent might be metallic hydrogen and/or lithium. Somehow Rossi gets this LENR active agent into the QX without any of the other preprocessed fuel material.

        Polaritons need a electron/hole pair to form and that means nano or microparticles. Here again, no dust is seen inside the QX.

        If polaritons are forming, it is on the surface of the nickel electrodes.