‘Mining Diamonds with LION’ (New MFMP Video)

Here’s a new video from the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project

Video description:

“Overview of the LION reactor structure, fuel, treatment and experimental protocol, it’s extraordinary results in relation to other work in the field and what is planned for the early part of 2018 to verify and build
on the data gathered so far.”

The video discusses how the Francesco Celani had previously found that micro- and nano- diamonds had been found on wire he had used for LENR experiments. He then goes on to describe work done by LION with the LION reactor using a Looking for Heat experimental platform.

Bob Greenyer provides the following summary of the results of the experiment:

“Very strong evidence of Charge Cluster presence.

Witness tracks of strange radiation in reactor ceramics

Best strange radiation track observed to date

‘Two spots’ all over dental film

Liquification of core

Apparently near metamorphosis of copper wire to cuprous oxide

Cold Electricity – splat cooling of Cuprous Oxide and lighting of bulb”

  • artefact

    Good luck LION with your current device!

    • LION

      Hi artefact,
      THANKS. It was great to see John Hutchison”s Post. What a LEGEND, Great respect for him, such a courageous man.

  • Andre Blum

    very interesting. i enjoyed watching this.

  • artefact

    The seller of the diamond hand pad will wonder about the rise in sales!

  • Axil Axil

    A soliton has two spin currents counter-circulating in a confined space. Like any magnet, each of those currents produce a magnetic field, one of these currents produce a magnetic north pole and the other a magnetic south pole. The paired holes that is witnessed in the video is formed when the field lines of this solaton passes through the material. The field lines disrupt the nuclear structure of the material when the dipole magnetic field lines pass through the material.

    This is a magnetic dipole based soliton.


    from Two-Dimensional Solitons and Vortices in Linear and Nonlinear Lattice Potentials


    But this magnetic dipole based soliton can transform into a monopole based soliton or half soliton.


    Physicists have observed spontaneous symmetry breaking in a soliton formed in a optical microcavity, experimentors have demonstrated experimentally the emergence of spontaneous symmetry breaking in an ultrahigh-Q whispering-gallery microresonator. The Optical whispering gallery (WGW) microcavity is the structural form that the Surface Plasmon Polariton assumed in LENR. . These whispering gallery modes are analogous to the acoustic resonances in the whispering gallery in St. Paul Cathedral in London.

    A critical clue to the role of symmetry breaking in LENR is the observation that the application of an electrostatic field catalyzes spontaneous symmetry breaking in the WGW via the Kerr effect.


    The application of an electrostatic field has been listed as a trigger of the LENR reaction in Rossi’s patent. When this electrostatic field is applied, the WGW produces symmetry breaking which induces a energy transfer between a proton and a simultaneous decay in that proton via a symmetry breaking based entangled interface. This causes the counter rotating spin currents to merge into a single current, thereby forming a monopole.

    The rabbit tracks seen in the video are formed by this monopole based soliton.

    Its seems that the dipole magnetic field is strong enough to cause LENR effects but the monopole based soliton is far stronger and can produce far more energy than the dipole based soliton. Therefore the KERR effect LENR activation signal is critical in producing a powerful LENR effect.

  • Ophelia Rump

    You could manufacture nano diamond encrusted cutting wire and have a unique startup with little more than the current level of technology, through the addition of a wire feed mechanism.

    • Axil Axil

      It is my guess that the nanodiamonds evaporate due to transmutation and what remains are holes or pits in nickel that the nanodiamond once occupied. To verify this posit, a SEM should look at the nickel particles to see if the nanodiamonds are still impregnating the nickel particles or have been removed leaving a pit where they once had been.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Evaporating diamonds, what a concept!

        • Omega Z

          Evaporating diamonds

          The 2nd biggest cause of divorce after marriage.

  • Axil Axil

    Nanodiamonds won’t last long. They will be transmuted and go away in short order. There was lots of carbon in the Lugano fuel but it all when away in the ash after a month of running.

    “Sample 2 was the fuel used to charge the E-Cat. It’s in the form of a very fine powder. Besides the analyzed elements it has been found that the fuel also contains rather high concentrations of C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, Mn and these are not found in the ash.”

  • Axil Axil


    The vortex that connects the dipole solitons is a wormhole.


    “The focus herein is on the experimental properties and
    significance of the Falaco Solitons, which are, in effect, extraordinary topological defect structures that can be created in a swimming pool. These Falaco Solitons turn out to be locally unstable, but globally stabilized, long lived, topologically coherent structures, that are far from equilibrium. The appearance of these topological defect structures appears to be universal, from the quantum microscopic domain of Bose-Einstein condensates to the Cosmics strings between Galaxies.”

    The holes in the medium is where the wormhole passes through it. This wormhole connecting a polariton does condinsate and is most likely a magnetic flux line vortex.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Hi Axil,

      Thanks for this contribution, I was unaware that these things were so ubiquitous, I just kept seeing them pop up in experiments and seeing similar things in broader nature.

    • Stephen

      Here is an interesting question. What is a fundamental particle fundamentally?

      Really from first principles?

      Some probably very naive thoughts I keep thinking and wondering about:

      A particle fundamentaly is a local manifestation of energy nothing else I think. As such it has energy locality and spin relative to an outside observer. So Effectively an spin axis and an spin plane orthaganol to that axis. Very much like a vortex I would say.

      In order to retain conservation of states an equivalent anti particle would need to be produced with opposite spin. Is charge and spin some how related to this?

      Interestingly this would imply 3 possible orthogonal orientations in its local frame of reference that would not interfere with each other. Is this related to 3 leptons and 3 space axis in space time?

      A particle has locality but also some size so it is not inside it’s own event horizon perhaps a consequence of its spin?

      If it didn’t have sufficient spin to exist out side it’s event horizon would it manifest as a real (non virtual) particle?

      Are some states such as mass inside its event horizon and dominated by its local frame of reference and others such as spin out side?

      Would there be an external frame of reference that sums the effects interactions and resonances of many particles?

      When a particle is created in its own local frame of reference how would it interact or resonate with an external frame of reference?

      Would some local frame orientations require more energy than others to manifest in a the external frame?

      Would a transition between orientation axis be equivalent to a boson?

      Would there be particle spin axis orientation resonance off sets where particle local frames can only exist together in resonance with others such as quarks, would these explain the fractional 1/3 of 2/3 charges of quarks and needs to be in pairs or triplets?

      Could the 3 different orientations of theses ofset axis relate to the 3 families of quarks?

      Is there an eventual steady state preference in the resonance with external frame for energy associated with positive charges to exist in lowest energy offset axis associated with lowest energy quarks and energy associated with negative charges to manifest in lowest energy LFR axis associated with lowest energy leptons electrons? Could that Be a consequence of the external frame of reference (its mass its curvature or something)?

      Would time itself relate to the constraints these particles are under when resonating or interact with each other. Is a particle states lifetime part of its fundamental nature.

      Well I know these are idle thoughts obviously real physics theory goes far further than these thoughts but I do wonder about these simplistic thoughts too.

  • Axil Axil

    Dipole and monopole solitons act like particles.

    • Max Nozin

      Which medium forms solitons? Please don’t call it ‘field’.

  • Axil Axil

    The strange radiation is produced by wormholes.

  • Axil Axil

    The Celani wire experiment is revealing. If LENR can produce diamonds on the surface of a wire, then in due course, LENR will certainly remove them.

    This is why LENR involves a two step process in which the first step is to create the EVOs, and the last step is to run the EVOs in a run time reactor. The EVO creation process is destructive to the elements used in that creation process. The run time reactor is designed to feed the EVOs carried in the fuel with hydogen and lithium using EMF stimulation. All the trace elements in the fuel besides nickel are burnt up during the run time reaction including carbon.

    In point of fact, the me356 fuel resting on the SEM carbon substrate is seen to transmute that carbon into heavier elements. Diamond doesn’t have a chance to survive for very long inside a run time LENR reactor.

    • Bob Greenyer

      The diamonds formed in the cyclical joule heating process that we have formerly documented. Basically high power pulses are put through the wire in free air.

  • Alan Smith

    Here’s some info on ‘strange radiation’.

    Yes. Variously called ‘Erzions’ by the Russian speakers, and ‘Meshugganons’ (by Edward Teller). An unknown particle that leaves zig-zag tracks.

    Bazhutov, Y.N. Erzion discovery in cosmic rays and its possible great role in nature in framework of Erzion
    model of cold nuclear transmutation. in 8th International Conference on Cold Fusion. 2000. Lerici (La
    Spezia), Italy: Italian Physical Society, Bologna, Italy. p. 269.

    Matsumoto, T., ‘Nattoh’ model for cold fusion. Fusion Technol., 1989. 16: p. 532.

  • Gerard McEk

    Although I find this higly interesting, I am not yet convinced that CC’s are indeed the motor behind LENR. I hope you can prove that with your tests, Bob. But even if it is not related to LENR, I do believe that it should be further investigated. I wish you a major success next month!

    • Bob Greenyer

      What I know is from a cooper pair to galaxy scales, charges like to cluster. As Shoulders once said, a speck of dust is a charge cluster, it is therefore self-evident that they and electrons in some way shape or form play the critical role in LENR.

      Shoulders built on 30 years of work by General Electric in ‘vacuum discharges’, published in 1963, to discover a real and ubiquitous phenomena, the capabilities of self-organising charge clusters, the smallest of which is a cooper pair and the smallest including an ion is variously called H-(Piantelli/Cincinnati Group), Negaton (Peery), Magnon (Santilli), e-Pe-(Little) etc. from there it steps to self confining structures of billions of electrons/electrons+ions, which are more stable in this range than when they get very large.

      It has been shown that the can cause nuclear re-organisation and a range of other effects that do not normally occur in our very stable and off-extreme world.

      Thanks for the well-wishing.

  • georgehants

    Ladies and Gentlemen please let us remember that our establishment educated scientific establishments “knows” from their religious priests direct contact with their gods, that genuine UFO’s Telepathy, Remote viewing, reincarnation, a creator, ZPE, Etc. Etc. Etc. are impossible.
    It is blasphemy on these pages to be suggesting anything beyond a steam engine.
    It is time for Google and all other censoring, controlling, establishment authorities to step in and stop this open-minded Research and discussion of Facts, or before we know where we are the “TRUTH” will be allowed in our society’s and the World could actually advance outside of the control of our money and power mad elite.

    • Omega Z

      Zuckerberg is on it. Facebook is going to make sure that only honest and reliable news sources are presented to it’s members. Only honest and reliable news sources according to whom???
      The status quo I would presume.

  • Axil Axil

    I beleive that this LION experiment shows a reactor meltdown. This meltdown must have produced a burst of proton and neutron decays into mesons. These mesons would have decayed to produce electrons as a final particle end decay product. The reactor stored these electrons as a static charge until they found ground through the 20 watt bulb circuit that was connected at the bolt end of the reactor.

    • Omega Z

      What would be the possibility of Rossi using nitrogen as a secret sauce.

      • Alain Samoun


  • LION

    Hi everyone,
    THANKS FRANK for posting this thread, much appreciated.
    A Huge thanks to BOB for all his fine work.
    BOB is like the GIFT that just keeps Giving, the field of LENR should Treasure him, if anyone is in doubt just
    check out this link :


    and keep scrolling. I bet many will be amazed at just how many stimulating videos BOB has made to contribute
    to this evolving field of research.
    If what I have done contributes in even a small way to the overall Knowledge base then I will be very satisfied, this field of research is yet young. There is still so much to learn for all of us, we can all be proud pioneers. I am sure MARTIN is smiling.
    and wishing us all SUCCESS.
    I am hopeful that STAN will yet return to the field in some capacity and write his and Martins story, it would be an utter Tragedy for that to be lost.
    THANKS also to RUSS and ALAN for all their wonderful help, I am very much aware that no man ( researcher ) is an island
    unto themselves. Co -operative collective action is what is required for this field to THRIVE.

    I am still committed to the GOAL of engagement with mainstream Science, because the day they get on board again in a Serious and Constructive way is the day this Field of Research will fly. Humanities energy future will then be secured.

    I wish to thank everyone for their interest and support, especially Axil, who’s posts will in time , I am sure prove seminal, in assisting a deeper understand for any approaching main stream Scientist.

    Dr Michael Mc Kubre gave what I believe is a very important interview recently, I urge everyone to listen to it. Thanks for everything you have done for this field of research MIKE, may your Wealth of experience remain with us for many years to come. Mike represents many of the fields Treasures, as they started out as main stream scientists themselves and represent the best link to their collegues in mainstream Science who have yet to be convinced. Here is the link—thanks RUBY.


    THANKS also to all at MFMP for loaning me their Bubble Detectors, may all continue to give whatever they can.

    Help light the New Fire:

    Please consider joining those other interested people like you, that have already helped us advance this field in previous years, by making a donation in one of the following ways:

    Donations to the MFMP can be made here: http://goo.gl/Ykx3AW

    Paypal and communications for the US nonprofit: [email protected]

    Donations to help Bob Greenyer volunteer can be made here: https://www.gofundme.com/bobgreenyer

    Donations of any size can be made direct to Quantum Heat C.I.C.s bank account here, thus saving charges:


    Branch Address: 153 North Street Brighton, East Sussex, BN1 1SW

    Account Name: Quantum Heat C.I.C

    Sort Code: 40-14-03

    Acc No.: 12631571

    IBAN: GB48MIDL40140312631571


  • Axil Axil

    Spin clusters or “magon Bose condensates” to use the correct scientific terminology is just a means to produce rotating magnetic field lines. This type of magnetism is what produces the LENR reaction.

    IMHO, the LION experiment shows that the wormhole connecting a dipole soliton is a tight beam of rotating magnetic field lines.

    But there are many ways of producing this type of magnetism.

    A SmCo7 rare earth magnet(dust) has been shown to produce a small amount of excess heat in the Cravins golden ball experiment.

    A rare earth magnet also produces this type of magnetism. In fact, a rare earth magnet can increase the nuclear decay rate of a radioactive isotope by 2%.

    When magnetic field lines pass through the hexagonal crystal structure of graphite and meca, these field lines are set into a rotating motion.

    Biological based LENR is most likely initiated using chemical processes that produce rotating magnetic field lines.

    Lonsdaleite (named in honour of Kathleen Lonsdale), also called hexagonal diamond in reference to the crystal structure, is an allotrope of carbon with a hexagonal lattice. … The great heat and stress of the impact of its generation process (explosion…cavitation) transforms the graphite into diamond, but retains graphite’s hexagonal crystal lattice. It could be that the diamond used in the LION experiment is Lonsdaleite. If so, just adding any old diamond dust to the fuel ingredients won’t work.


  • artefact

    The video reminds me that there are several theories that magnetism is the torsion of space time.
    For example Prof. Myron Evans ECE theory: http://aias.us

  • sam

    Ruby Carat hosts the third episode of the Cold Fusion Now! podcast series that surveys the present state of knowledge in Cold Fusion/LENR.
    Listen at our website http://coldfusionnow.org/cfnpodcast/ or subscribe in iTunes.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Electron “holes”, (+) in the conduction band react with hydride, H(-) to form an exciton, H(-)(+), a rossion.
    Rossions form a Bose-Einstein condensation of excitons (rossions) in the NAE where they can aggregate and
    then undergo positron emission.

    12 H(-)(+) (rossion) > 12[H(-)(+)] (Bose gas) > C(12) (diamond) + 6 e+(positions)

  • Bob Greenyer

    In the 2006 paper by Vysotskii and Adamenko, they calculated that the mass of ‘New Kinds of Radiation’ AKA Strange radiation was >3000-5000 nucleons and they are neutral.

    If you can’t observe Strange Radiation directly, then use silver sheet/foil etc. Strange Radiation appears to be neutral but seams to weakly interact with free electrons and so Silver is the best bridge to normal Alpha/Beta/Gamma detection options.

    My experience shows that they can effect materials with free electrons – causing transmutation, This is, IMPO, WHY Adamenko saw transmutations through the depth of the Cu accretion disk, Cu is a very good conductor.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    I recommend watching this video, in spite of the fact that it will take some time. These results look most interesting – especially, the ‘cold’ electric output and the ‘double spot’ phenomenon. Many thanks to Lion, Bob G and all other persons involved.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks for the comment.

      You can always watch it using Youtube’s double speed and save half the time.

      Some people as saying, why are you not suggesting it is triplets in the X-Ray film, the reason is the weight of evidence in different materials in different experiments and the ubiquity of Toroids, Soliton pairs and flux loops in both nature and the data presented – I cannot see how 3 points would work – in the case of the laser analysis of PET exposed to ECCO fuel radiation, you can see the chain link on some pairs and it is NOT 3 spots linked, and there are literally pairs that match.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        The soliton explanation makes sense if one assumes that the electrons in the metal lattice get crazy about the absorbed hydrogen nuclei. It is more difficult to imagine how that could work in non-conductors, though.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I agree. If the LION protocol allows for repetition, masking of the film alone should assist in resolving the point of origin.

          I would like to have access to that Hutchison sample and see if there is a morphological/isotopic feature or property joining points.

      • sam

        One and a half is a good speed.
        Good idea using your hands in the video Bob.
        It sure helped me keep focused.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I know it is hand waving on steroids, I would prefer to have the time to use my animation skills and make this VERY clear, but some times the fingers make great puppets and pointers.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Please pardon me but I can’t wait until April 1st to tell the readers about the celanion. In the hydrogen saturated nickel wire electron, holes (+) (positively charged fermions from the valance band of the nickel) are created that in turn react with hydrides, H(-) to form neutral bosons called rossions, H(-)(+) http://disq.us/p/pcg183 (that are similar to ecitions http://en.wikipedia.org/wik
    ) . Because these rossions are bosons they can easily aggregate. An aggregate of twelve rossions forms a Bose gas aggregate called a celanion that in turn gives off six positrons to form carbon-12 (diamond).

    Check to see if the diamonds are made of pure carbon-12 or are made of natural carbon.

    12 H(-)(+) (rossion) > 12[H(-)(+)] (celanion) > C(12) (diamond) + 6 e+(positions)


  • Axil Axil

    The insights that the ECCO fuel analysis provides shows that Falaco solitons are produced in abundance as a active agent in the LENR reaction and these solitons stay together for many weeks after they are created. These solitons are weakly LENR active and are seen to produce gradual chemical disruption and creeping deterioration in a PET fuel container, or generate a gradual transmutation process as seen in the SEM micrographs of the carbon substrate that holds the hydrides produce by the fuel preparation process.

    It is now apparent that the dipole solitons are gradually released to the far field from the hydride fuel over time but that release produces little LENR activity and is not readily noticed. These solitons are charge and magnetically neutral and move independently having no tendency to aggregate or repel each other.

    When these solitons are loaded into a LENR reactor, they can be activated to the monopole form by the stimulation of a KERR effect stimulus. This stimulation can come from a high voltage electrostatic field as produced by a high voltage spark or electrode, high intensity light as produced by a laser or incoherent light as produced by the QX reactor.

    This KERR stimulation converts the dipole form of the solitons to a monopole form. This transformation polarizes the spin of the particles contained in the soliton that eliminates the spin cancellation effects that come from the dipole state. The spin polarization process produces a intensified, concentrated and focused magnetic beam that is a very powerful LENR agent.

  • Hi all

    Bob have you considered stacking the magna film to get a three D image of the fields or perhaps using a fero liquid?

    Kind Regards Ian Walker

    • Bob Greenyer

      Hi Ian,

      We have purchased some magnafilm and our Hutchison samples did not show any response on first try. I will try it on the LION reactor that has been run and will have it to hand on our replication.

      I sense that strange radiation is more dangerous if you have a metal of high conductivity between you and the source.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Pardon me again but John Hutchison’s comment on the video triggered another misfiring of the few remaining neurons that I have and senile disinhibition compels me to record this “thought” here.

    Could whatever he is doing to this block of iron be causing the iron-56 (91.75 % of natural iron) to aggregate into a Bose gas of iron-56 that is no longer bound (by the electrons) to the lattice? (Then revert back to individual iron-56 atoms when the power is turned off.)

    Fe-56 (lattice bound) > Fe-56 (Bose gas) > Fe-56(lattice bound)


    • Bob Greenyer

      I asked if we could secure this sample for testing – predominantly elemental / isotopic and crystallographic, since it was made with the equipment now largely in Germany and the 7″ x 2″ x 2″ solid Iron bar has it’s volume significantly changed (smaller), that is to say, the nucleons are now arrange so that they occupy far less space. Sadly it was sold 4 years ago for $750.

      This video is to be a major exhibit in another presentation.

      Note the twisting. This sample, like all his samples were cold, and sometime really cold after the effect. Also note that it is occurring on wood which does not burn.

      I suspect that

      1 – metal is untestable material as found in many of his other experiments, that is to say, normal testing does not confirm a known element.

      2 – metal is 62Ni or 208Pb

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Thanks Bob.

        Although it was sold, it may turn up again.

        All the best.

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION – Is this experiment able to make out of this world matter?

    The Doctor in charge of teaching EDS analysis at Masaryk University Brno could not get the SEM/EDS apparatus and software to determine a material in the main affected area of the LION reactor, this was a first in her experience.

    Similar experiences have been had in the past by multiple groups trying to determine what some of John Hutchison’s transmuted material was. Yuri Bazhutov, one of the first people to discover ‘Strange Radiation’, which he calls Erzions, has also reported ‘new kinds of material’.


    • Alan DeAngelis

      What’s the mass of the unknown ?

      • Bob Greenyer

        This will have to come much later, as I said in the first video, we are taking the analysis much slower.

        ICPMS is a destructive process, MALDI TOF MS is both destructive and can only see masses above say 90 with accuracy.

        The material seems to be putting out a different combination of characteristic X-Rays (having been excited by the impinging electron beam) to any known material. So whilst it can locate the area with the anomalous material, by specifying it as ‘something’, in this case Yb, though it is not that since it does not have all of the spectra. This indicates that the orbital electrons are not all in the normal place. What are electrons?

    • Alan DeAngelis
      • Andreas Moraitis

        Either that, or some other ‚neochemical’ stuff (like Santilli’s „magnecules“).

    • Andreas Moraitis

      It might be an idea to send a sample to a specialized lab for an ‘old-fashioned’ chemical analysis. Mass spectrometry could be applied additionally, but if that material is a stable compound it would possibly produce as well inconclusive results.

    • LION

      Hi BOB,
      this IS THRILLING NEWS. WOW very excited. I am so pleased you have the Tube and shareing with the community.THANKS. Well done MFMP. I am sure the Tube will yet give up much more DATA.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Oh yes, it will.

        Well done LION, this reactor is a special thing. As we agreed, we would let Rossi have his time so as not to steel his thunder, but as I said to you last week, I think now is the right time to let this out.

        I am trying to get my taxes done (bit of a joke really) and then lay out more of its revelations. I hope to post a related funny video ( well, to me anyway) to this one later today.

        This weekend I will be hosting a plasma physicist.

        Last year was a very special one for me as a renegade science lover, and the fruits of your labour was a big part of that. I really have been experiencing the joy of science. Several times last year I had experienced people say they can’t believe or understand what they are seeing, and it just makes me laugh.

        • georgehants

          Bob, giving Rossi any “time” is still withholding the technology from those who need it most.
          Rossi has had enough time to help those in need and I disagree that MFMP should take such things as “stealing his thunder” into any consideration.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I had no time to interpret the data that shocked the very few that first that saw it. Moreover, the big reveal in the presentation, was not possible until very recently. I had done a LOT of research to get to that point of understanding so that I could make the message simple. I am continually trying to find a way to support my family and continue this work – that there has been the biggest barrier – it has been an immense struggle.

            1. The video with the Magnafilm was not posted till 26th December 2017.

            2. I did not get the x-rays with the ‘two spots’ till 4 days before the presentation.

            3. I did not get the image from Hutchison until 2 days before I finished the presentation, which I am not aware has ever been made public.

            I had already made public the raw images immediately from the ECCO ‘Strange Radiation’ work many many months ago and no-one had looked at them – I did not even realise their significance until 1,2&3 above.

            The LION author wanted to not over-run Rossi’s work at the end of last year, and the MFMP must respect the wishes of claimants. I have just about kept things spinning in the interim. Because of the extended time to consider the data, which I also used to build various relevant relationships, principally with John Hutchison, only then has clarity of what may be going on become possible. When I said to LION last week that it was the right time, that is because it was the right time! Before then there would have been no presentation since the key data to interpret the data would have been missing.

            So, even as I wrote to the LION author last week, the full story had not crystallised. Everyone got this as fast as I could possibly do it without loosing completely my limited support structure. I have so much thinking and data to publish from last year but am really struggling financially with 3 young children and basically permanently volunteering. I think this is the most important use of my mind but not all agree, including in my family and I have to deal with that. I have many presentations in the works, this was one of them, this is the culmination of months of thinking and only possible because of my being away from my family for months last year on MFMP missions and then digesting what was witnessed.

            PUBLISHING this presentation has given me a lot of intellectual pleasure but has yielded $0 for my family and $100 for the project, despite this, I feel that I am honour and duty bound to release all my understanding publicly as fast as I reasonably can.

          • georgehants

            Bob, many thanks, I also gain “intellectual and humanitarian benefit from your statement that “, I feel that I am honour and duty bound to release all my understanding publicly as fast as I reasonably can.”
            Please put up the link below for us to make a direct donation of $100 to you personally to help your situation.
            Yours and MFMP’s efforts for open science for those in need I feel sure are leading to many such donations.
            Best wishes George Jackie

          • Bob Greenyer

            Hi George. I have made a link to the presentation slides above.

            Thankyou for your offer, in 25 months I have raised on average $100 a month from generous people and that has really helped, but for this to be sustainable, I need 20 times as much, when my partner met me, and before I started my MFMP journey, I earned $100-$170/hour, you can imagine how that is internalised. I intend to publish to youtube very regularly both experiments and raw data and get insights and thoughts out the door as fast as possible and will launch a patreon with the hope of making this possible, I have built the studio. If there are 200 people that could afford $10 a month then I can do this full time AND keep some sense of dignity with my family.

            Here is the link to my gofundme, thankyou

          • georgehants

            All done Bob, please take care of my card details, I know that PayPal take a percentage but I think more people would feel safer using that method to donate.
            Will wait fort expert comments on your news release today so that I can understand it better.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thanks so much George, it is people in this community like you, that really want to see this science both in the open and benefiting our biosphere and are prepared to contribute, either intellectually or financially, that inspire me to push forward against the odds.

            I never get to see any card details, that is a matter for the gofundme site, I think you have no problems there.

          • Timing is complex. What I note is that—as most often in the history of technology—when the timing is right, a new invention normally gets invented fairly independently by multiple inventors in different locations at more or less the same time frame. I think Rossi has needed the time until now to get to a product which can be commercialised. He has always been convinced that this is the only way to convince the world about the technology, and I believe he is right. And I have never heard him so convinced before about being ready.
            At the same time it’s exciting to see parallel work such as this, and I am incredibly grateful for your efforts Bob.
            I’m also really looking forward to having you as a speaker at the New Energy World Symposium, for which I also believe the timing is right. BTW, there’s another link to LION through Alan Smith as a speaker, having provided the tools to LION from Lookingforheat.com.
            At the moment I’m struggling to get enough attendees to be able to hold the conference. Will take some risks in order to get there, hoping for the best!

          • Bob Greenyer

            Hi Mats,

            Your unstinting work in the face of extreme criticism is an inspiration. You took the decision last year to put off the New Energy World Symposium and I think that was the right thing to do. Likewise, I think that it is the right thing to do to run with it this year.

            The MFMP, with Super NOVA, LION and Hutchison replication, in addition to the diligent and focussed work of Alan Goldwater and Bob Higgins and the support of many formidable researchers like Brian Albiston has another heavy, but very interesting year ahead of it. What is interesting is that the data is all connected, no new theories have emerged, just a coalescence of understanding and iteration to clarity – in itself, a self-organising phenomena. Sometimes, you need the right catalyst to bring about this self-organisation in many spheres, and I believe you are that catalyst that can bring about a new renaissance in the New Fire and I recommend that if anyone can get to Sweden this year I think they will not regret the choice.

          • Thanks Bob.

          • georgehants

            Mats, many thanks, we are into the philosophy of life.
            Capitalism is a cruel unequal system that one could put up on page. thousands of Facts giving the suffering and death it causes Worldwide, not just in the poor countries but the so called rich contain much suffering.
            A better system where all have a completely equal chance to help society and are rewarded pro-rata for their efforts, no child starting with any disadvantage to any other as in our insane system.
            Learning from birth, caring and sharing in contrast to selfish greed.
            MFMP are showing, as do thousands of people around the World just how willing they can be to work for others.
            In contrast Rossi is showing the delay caused by capitalistic ideals, when his knowledge could have been shared eight years ago for every scientist in the World to have worked on, where would we be now?
            MFMP like everybody should be financed by society to help society.

          • LION

            Hi georgehants,
            ” The LION author wanted to not over-run Rossi’s work at the end of last year, and the MFMP must respect the wishes of claimants.”

            I am happy to confirm that BOB is word perfect in his reporting.

            It is well known that I have supported Andria from the beginning and still do. He is in my opinion a very remarkable human being, and has withstood the onslaught of others attacks with remarkable good grace. His application over so many long years has been simply extraordinary. His industry will deliver something beautiful, of that I have no doubt. I trust that when he does you will THANK him.

            This year we are going to have a LENR party with many different people and groups, enjoy it george.
            AlainCo has kindly previously posted a video of Andria calmly explaining how he deals with such personal attacks. His Humanity shines through. I very much look forward to the day that I have the opportunity to meet him.
            All the best.

          • georgehants

            Morning LION, no personal attacks but attack on the system used that ensnares and brings out the worst in people, please answer the point I continually make —–
            Do you agree that in a different system Rossi would have released his basic findings 8 years ago and thousands of scientists Worldwide could have been improving and developing ever since, of course Rossi should have been well rewarded for his work and financed to continue.
            The system is clearly insane unless you wish to justify the millions of suffering and dying people that could possibly be nearer being helped with open science and reward without a capitalistic system leading to such delays etc.
            What could MFMP have done in 8 years with the full recipe.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Hi Lion, just for clarification: Is it correct that you connected the light bulb to the ends of the outer coil? Was the reactor completely disconnected from the power supply at that time?

        • artefact

          I would guess that the screw has a connection to the fuel.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Andreas, over the months I have asked for clarification on this a few times, in part this delayed early release of the presentation. The conclusion, the power was turned off at the top of the cycle (at 800ºC) and the bulb, which was attached the the undisclosed drain, was attached to the screw. We will no know if the screw is attached to the fuel, in the image of the nickel from a previous run, this had coalesced, we will find out if was connected.

            If it was connected then it essentially means the drain path could have been from both the outside windings and/or the inside fuel. Whatever the case something cause intense cooling to create that glassy material.

    • piolo

      Hi Bob
      Any news about the Ytterbium issue? I ask you this because year ago I found unexplicable enrichment of this element (up three order of magnitude) or more correctly speaking an Ytterbium peak on Nickel based samples under XRF analysis.
      The original material was a mix of Nickel, Lithium, Aluminium.. hydride of these.
      thank for any further information

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thankyou for sharing. I must note that there was no Nickel in the starting materials on LIONs exterior crust and basically no nickel detected there at the end. In addition, as I said in the presentation, Yb was chosen as it had the the ‘missing peak’ however, not all of the Yb lines were there.

        I think that extrapolating from the concepts I will present in ‘O Day’ maybe the answer will reveal itself.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Mining diamonds with LION presentation released

    Download/View Presentation slides

    Many links are included, when I get time to do the Steemit post, it will include the gif animations and much more raw data and images.

  • Bob Greenyer

    ‘Economics’ Nobel Laureate recommends investing in Cold Fusion over Bitcoin.

    Please help light the New Fire by sending your at peril BTC to this address


    He also goes on to say that

    “Gold is actually useful for some things, like filling teeth and making pretty jewellery; that’s not most of its value, but it does provide a tether to reality, along with a 5000-year history”


    Given that the ECCO foil maker seamed to produce Gold and it may be possible to target elements, perhaps we may be able to add the development of yellow metal synthesis to turn that value proposition on its head. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b2bcbd767ac9f306323017f7915d67a64f7befc910e65e08ed6dda39a4cd2b17.png

  • Axil Axil

    ​One of the important observations made by MFMP and earlier by others are that the clusters of “electrons” in a EVO are electrically neutral. That means that the electrons (10^23 of them) have lost their charge. How can this be possible?

    Currently in solid state physics, ​there is now an understanding that the properties of electrons can be separated under certain conditions into three components: charge, spin, and angular momentum. In addition, in quantum mechanics, a particle can be in two places at the same time. These conditions permit a collection of electron properties to aggregate into a soliton while other properties are located in other places.

    The charge and angular momentum of the electron can be located on the surface of some metal as a component of an exciton.​

    An exciton is a bound state of an electron and an electron hole which are attracted to each other by the electrostatic Coulomb force. It is an electrically neutral quasiparticle that exists in insulators, semiconductors and in some liquids. The exciton is regarded as an elementary excitation of condensed matter that can transport energy without transporting net electric charge​.

    The spin component of the electron is in superposition inside the soliton which can move freely in space and is in an entanged condition with a photon. This superposition state is a boson and caries a spin of 2. This aggregation of quasiparticles results in a Bose Condensate which forms as a result of a high density of these particles.

    For more details see


    ​This “magnon” condensate is superconducting and when the condinsate is destroyed, the superposition state of the electron aggregation is also destroyed and the properties of the electron are reunited resulting in the electron aggregation exploding at the location of the soliton as the charge and angular momentum properties of the electron combine with the spin component. A burst of photons are also released in the explosion whose frequency is based on the excitation level of the soliton before the explosion occurs.

    This explosion of the EVO has been observed in LENR experiments and named by Dr Yeong E​ Kim as a Bosenova.

    • Axil Axil

      Dr Kim has also observed the production of a huge magnetic field coming from this EVO.

      Kim states:

      “3.3. Magnetic field measurements

      After each triggering duty cycle (the triggering sequences producing excess heat), the magnetic fields at ~18 cm from the reactor at all three locations rose from ~0.6 Tesla to ~1.6 Tesla (DC peak) during each reaction period. Such anomalous peak signals were maintained for approximately 3-4 sec after the HV currents were cut off. This indicates that interactions/reactions within the reactor are producing very strong electric fields E (and currents I plus nano-plasma) between the Ni grain nano-antennas, as suggested by Ostrikov et al. [26], and very strong magnetic fields B, possibly enhanced by gallery whisper effects due to reactor’s internal structure and geometry. Such strong magnetic fields are used within Hyperion reactor’s architecture to stabilize the plasma generated by the HV discharges in non-vacuum conditions.”

      • Bob Greenyer

        I considered putting points from Y.E.Kims presentation at Missouri (ICCF18) into the “Mining diamonds with LION” for the reasons you have cited, but the presentation was getting long and people have mixed feelings about DGT.

        I decided on leaving the Easter egg in there – that Sandvik’s Nickel+Diamond industrial abrasive was called Hyperion.

  • Axil Axil

    Regarding the neutrally charged EVO

    Here is a nice biography on Ken Shoulders based on interviews with his son Steve:


    Interesting quote:

    “But was there any worthwhile science in Shoulders’ EVO research? After dismissing the inventor’s findings, Feynman became aware of the discovery of similar clusters of charged particles made at the National Bureau of Standards and the work of a professor at the University of California, San Diego, who had noticed the same thing 10 years earlier but had not conducted further research. On January 31, 1986, Feynman mailed an apology letter to Shoulders: “When you were in my office I could not see how 10^10 or 10^11 electrons could be kept as a ball in a vacuum without ions. . . . I must apologize for it has come to my attention that it is indeed possible.” Feynman confirmed that the electron clusters Shoulders and his son witnessed were feasible, a small victory in the face of mass rejection.”

    • Skip

      Thanx for the link. Here’s another quote…

      “Puthoff had just spoken with his wealthy friend George “Bill” Church,
      the owner and CEO of the Church’s Fried Chicken fast-food chain. Church
      had told Puthoff about a recent dream in which a flying saucer landed
      before him, out of which walked a man with remarkably large shoulders.
      As soon as Puthoff hung up the phone, Shoulders walked into his office
      looking for money. To a man pursuing the paranormal it seemed prophetic.
      Puthoff called Church back immediately, exclaiming that he was face to
      face with a large-shouldered man named Ken Shoulders.”

      • georgehants

        Skip, as the great Jung would have described it, serendipity at it’s best.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Oh that’s good… Open the pod bay door and let them in!

  • Bob Greenyer

    Schrödinger’s C-at

    What is going on with LION’s Cuprous Oxide and how did it form and why in a glassy phase?

    Did Charge Clusters carry ions of Carbon, Oxygen, Deuterons, protons from the core and reactor ceramic in to the highly conductive Copper and deposit them there when the music stopped?


    • LION

      HI BOB,
      You are a STAR. the BBC should employ you IMMEDIATELY on a program about the history of Cold Fusion/LENR, and PAY You at least as well as they did PAXMAN.

      • Bob Greenyer

        You are going to LOVE what I found last light, right now I am torn between putting together a presentation, or doing my taxes so I don’t pay a late submission fine. I want you guy to see it!

        • georgehants

          Morning Bob, no taxes required just everybody being rewarded with a pro-rata income based on their contribution to society, millions of people removed from life wasting work in non-productive occupations.
          A road sweeper is important, a financial worker and many others wasting their time on pointless jobs just to keep an insane capitalist system functioning, purely for the advantage of manipulating individuals to exercise their greed and selfishness at the expense of others.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I really do believe doing my taxes is a COMPLETE WASTE of my life – I am preparing the presentation, what I have found yesterday is beautiful.

          • georgehants

            Bob, my concentration is not good these days, could you put up in simple terms what you “found yesterday is beautiful.”

          • artefact

            Still not known. We will See in the presentation. Happy evening George.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Published above – now I have to stay up all night to do my taxes – urgh

          • Bob Greenyer

            Takes a lot of effort sometime to make something very simple.

  • Axil Axil

    Creations of localized magnetic traps (LMT)

    “During the triggering stages, moving positive and negative charges are created and are expected to propagate through the reaction cells of ~200 μm sizes inside the Ni foams. The reaction cells contain Ni powders of ~ 5μm sizes. Both Ni foams and powders are no longer magnetic at temperatures above the Curie temperature (~358 0C or ~6310K) due to heating of the reactor by the plasma gas discharges. However, these moving charges carrying the magnetic fields are expected to induce magnetic field domains in the Ni foams and Ni powders above the Curie temperature, as predicted by Durach, et al. [27]. The above scenario may provide a theoretical explanation of the observe magnetic field of ~ 0.6 Tesla during the triggering period.

    These induced magnetic domains are expected to create many localized magnetic fields, randomly distributed on Ni surfaces, which can be regarded as localized magnetic traps (LMT) for hydrogen pairs and molecules. The sizes of LMTs may range from nano-scale to micro-scale.”

    This following sentence from Dr Kim states two things:

    “However, these moving charges carrying the magnetic fields are expected to induce magnetic field domains in the Ni foams and Ni powders above the Curie temperature, as predicted by Durach, et al. [27].”

    The residual baseline magnetism of .6 tesla is produced in nickel by the the LMT which can float around inside of the reactor.

    The LMT can move around the inside of the reactor after it is created on the surface of the nickel. The generation of new LMTs produce additional magnetism that ups the magnetic field to 1.6 Tesla (DC peak) after the spark discharge for 3 to 4 seconds.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      What if the diamonds in Lion’s experiment simply act as barriers that support the formation of electron vortices? If so, one could use any insulator with a high enough melting point to enhance the fuel.

  • HAL9000

    Are LION developers wearing personal dosimeters to measure their accumulated radiation exposure? If not this is highly recommended due to the appearance of the heavy particle tracks. The “RADTriage 50” personal dosimeter is available from Walmart for less than $20, gives instant exposure metrics and has a built-in “fitness” check. Nice product.

  • Here’s a comment I received from Carl-Oscar Gullström who is collaborating with Rossi on a theory for Rossi’s LENR effect.

    I contacted him since I know how important it is to have the complete mathematical and theoretical picture as a basis when discussing hypotheses, and since I know that Gullström has an impressive intuitive and mathematical understanding of particle and nuclear physics.

    He told me that he had watched the entire MFMP video above and that he found the observations interesting. Here are his comments:

    “The problem with the CC theory and other beyond normal electromagnetic theories is that it lacks a link to the strong force.

    The thing is that the strong force has always been beyond the EM by definition and in many aspects the beyond EM theories I’ve seen in LENR only reproduces features of the strong force.

    What happens could be summarized in these short sentences: Interaction with the electron is done from the charge and magnetic moment which give rise to photon exchange interaction (EM). However the electron also has a mass, which implies that scalar interaction is possible and for electron-nucleon interaction this is carried by the scalar exchange particle sigma.

    To come back to the CC cluster, the observations that MFMP showed in their recent videos are within what sigma_I=2 exchange theories would predict, while the EM based CC theories has a problem with the strong force phenomena i.e. the absence of gamma radiation. First the shielding that would be needed from a charge cluster is that only 1/10^10 gammas would escape. The electron density is not enough for this type of shielding. One can compare with lead where the electron density actually is somewhat the same, and a cm of lead only shields about 10^3-10^5 of gammas.

    Even if the CC could shield gamma in an unknown super effective way they also have the problem with production of long-lived radioactive nuclides. Basically without any special rule on fusion except that the energy is there, stable nuclides would be dominant but also radioactive nuclides with half-life of seconds would be produced. These nuclides would be left after the CC has disappeared but decay and cause gamma radiation. For example 59-62Cu, 64Cu, 28Al, 8Li, 6Be would be created in a H-Li-Al-Ni environment and have detectable gamma radiation when decaying.

    That the CC is a consequence and not a cause of LENR could be explained by the following for the observations from MFMP. The sigma_I=2 potential would create an attractive force not only for the nucleon that is included in the nucleon transfer reaction but also for nuclides in the surroundings. The potential would then create in inbound pressure and “loaded spring” forces between the nuclides.

    A consequence of this is that diamonds could be created by the inbound pressure on the surface. Also the “loaded spring force” are left there for some time and could be used to create electricity for some time by the electric potential created by the extra force between the atoms. It also drags air into the metal and creates a negative pressure inside a closed reactor. An extra note concerning carbon is that is has an enhanced sigma potential since the force minimizes either four nucleons to be put together or four alpha clusters. The C12 isotope is made of three alpha clusters.

    The CC clusters are created by the sigma-electron potential where the sigma, not a photon, holds the electrons in place. I can mention another place where CC phenomena created by LENR might have been found in nature. That is the hessdalen light—a strange light phenomena observed in Norway coming from dust that is rich in the metal scandium. Scandium is a metal that is easy to use for LENR purpose since is has both odd number electrons and nucleons.”

    • LION

      Hi Mats,
      thanks for doing this and thanks to Carl-Oscar Gullström for responding.

    • Axil Axil

      The gamma radiation is removed from the LENR reaction because the CC is superconducting and is a bose condensate that becomes entangled with the subatomic particle that is involved in the LENR reaction. The energy is shared via this entangled interface and the CC absorbs the LENR energy and stores it for gradual release as light and heat. This wormhole based energy transfer between the proton and CC leaves the nucleus stable in terms of gamma energy release.

      The CC produces a monopole magnetic beam that acts to destabilize the proton through the creation of instantons inside the proton. These instantons change the mass of the proton so that the quark(s) change flavor and become strange. The proton then decays since strange quarks are unstable.

      The magnetic reactive field is not the quadrupole field but the monopole field. The monopole has long been predicted to destabilize protons.

      The monopole magnetic interaction with the proton is through the Chiral magnetic effect (CME).


    • Bob Greenyer

      Diamonds were not made by LENR in either Celani’s wires or LIONs core.

      What goes in is electrons and ions, what comes out is ions and electrons.

      Perhaps there is something in the middle

    • Axil Axil

      Carl-Oscar Gullström should study up on Leif Holmlids research. Like LION, I beleive that metallic hydrogen is what i producing the Rossi effect.

  • Bob Greenyer

    The possible irony in LION

    Could unusual structures on the surface of the LION reactor help explain the shadow spots found on exposed Dentafilm?

    Link to presentation. Raw SEM images linked from pdf


    • Stephen

      It’s remarkable this double spot phenomenon. And a really a remarkably great insight linking these to solitons like this and explaining the dental film images from this phenomenon.

      Even off topic collimating and focusing and diffraction of X-rays in to spots like this if this occurs is quite something. Or is it X-rays are being seen through the holes but not being focused. Either way it’s a very interesting observation. If the XRays are indeed focused or collimated I suppose these X-rays could give an expert a window on the process involved in generating them. Fascinating stuff. I’m really curious now where the evidence leads us.

      • Bob Greenyer

        You are going to love it.

  • Axil Axil

    Bob Greenyer asks does the sun run on LENR? It does.

    PP fusion as the source of the Sun’s power is a theory that is an assumption that is not correct. The Sun is powered by a LENR reaction based on metalized hydrogen.

    In his last paper, Leif Holmlid shows that the solar wind is produced by proton decay processes that are rooted in metallic hydrogen.



    There is another path to understanding LENR. That path is found in the stars. Here follows a summation of that path less taken to LENR understanding by Prof. Pierre-Marie Robitaille

    Now that liquid metallic hydrogen has been advanced as a solar building block, it is likely that opposition will be raised, for many will foresee unsettling changes in astronomy. A liquid Sun brings into question our understanding of nearly every facet of this science:

    from stellar structure and evolution, the existence of black holes, the primordial atom, dark energy, and dark matter. It is not easy to abandon familiar ideas and begin anew.

    However, some scientists will realize that a liquid metallic hydrogen model of the Sun, not only opens new avenues, but it also unifies much of human knowledge into a cohesive and elegant framework. A liquid metallic Sun invites astronomy to revisit the days of Kirchhoff and Stewart, and to recall the powerful lessons learned from studying the thermal emission of materials. It emphasizes that our telescopes observe structural realities and not illusions.

    In recognizing the full character of these structures, all of the great solar astronomers from Galileo, to Secchi, to Hale are honored. These observers knew that solar structures (granules, sunspots, pores, flares, prominences, etc. . . ) were manifesting something profound about nature.

    For astrophysicists, the Sun imparts lessons which may well have direct applications for mankind. For instance, the solar body holds the key to fusion. If the Sun is made from condensed matter, then our experiments should focus on this state. Sunspots may also guard the secret to synthesizing metallic hydrogen on Earth. If sunspots are truly metallic, as reflected by their magnetic fields, then attempts to form liquid metallic hydrogen on Earth might benefit from the presence of magnetic fields. Our analysis of the photospheric constitution and the continuous thermal spectrum should be trying to tell us something about liquids and their long range order.

    The LION reactor may have produced metallic hydrogen and the LENR reaction that this material catalyzes.

  • Axil Axil

    Bob Greenyer asks where does the triangle shapes on the surface of the LION reacto come from.

    triangle shape comes from the structure of metallic hydrogen.

    There are many types of high pressure chemical compounds possible just like metalized hydrogen. They are compounds formed under high pressure that have a hexagonal or trigonal crystal structure.

    Mark LeClair has seen this shape produced by metallic water produced by cavitation.

    The proton/proton reaction that is supposed to be produced in the core of the Sun through hot fusion is an invalid theory. The sun is powered by LENR produced by liquid hydrogen.

    For an explanation See


    Liquid Metallic Hydrogen: A Building Block for … – Progress in Physics


    Dr. Pierre-Marie Robitaille: Sun on Trial | EU2014


    • suhas R

      Bob G had placed lot of Data and explanation on Ecco reactor fuel and fuel preparation also on our Ultrasonic experimentation in preparing the fuel as well as Hybrid Ultrasonic frequency Plasma and same frequency very high power ultrasonic exposure.
      We have found few more applications for this hybrid tech, in wastewater and metal surface engineering
      I request and await some comments from you considering your exhaustive thinking and explanations of various LENR possibie theories
      Suhas Ralkar

      • Axil Axil

        The collapsing cavitation bubble produces pressures high enough to produce metallic water. Mark LeClair discovered and researched it. Once formed, this quantum mechanical material is indestructible. Like metalized hydrogen, it converts photons to energy through the production of magnetism.

        Here is a presentation about this subject from LeClair


        also see


        From this paper, take note

        “The crystalline structure presents a concentrated number of protons on the surface giving it a very low pH. Bright red hexagon jet impact pits in green litmus and purple hexagon pits in orange litmus all indicated zero pH. The crystal is short-lived, typically persisting for a few microseconds in water, isolated by a super-cavitating water vapor column.”

        Apparently, this material is long lived and is carried in the ECCO fuel for mamy weeks. It is the active agent in the ECCO reaction.

        • suhas R

          Thanks for details

      • psi2u2

        Very happy to see this collaboration moving forward and with applications in sight!

  • Axil Axil

    Holmlid states in his latest paper as seen in his experiments as follows:

    Coulomb explosions in H(0) in spin state s = 1 generate protons with kinetic energies larger than the retaining gravitational energy at the photosphere of the Sun. The required proton kinetic energy above 2 keV has been directly observed in published experiments.

    2KeV translates into a temperature of 20,000,000C.

    Eugene Wigner and Hillard Bell Huntington predicted that under an immense pressure of around 25 GPa (250,000 atm; 3,600,000 psi) hydrogen would display metallic properties:

    If it takes that much pressure to form metallic hydrogen, it should require at least that much pressure to destroy it.

    When Silvera and Dias managed to turn hydrogen metallic, it was at a pressure of 495 GPa, well beyond the 360 GPa of Earth’s core.

    That is 4,950,000 atm of pressure at least to destroy it.

    But when metallic hydrogen forms, then you need to deal with degeneracy pressure.

    View this video to understand degeneracy pressure. This mechanism protects metallic hydrogen from distribution in any star shot of a neutron star.


  • Bob Greenyer

    I can wait to share with you all my joy right now.

    Trying to build a presentation that is simple and clear.

  • I wonder if I would ask all ECW readers for advice on the best LENR/cold fusion videos you know, turning to a wide audience.
    I have started to list some on a video section of the website of New Energy World Symposium:

    Please also find a fresh press release, if you know of someone that you think should receive it:

    • Hey Mats, waiting for you to interview Brillouin Energy’s Robert Godes. He seems dejected about funding. Maybe you could call and get the story? Thanks.

    • sam

      The Pull no Punches interview
      with Eugene Mellove fourteen
      years ago is interesting.


  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…


    Tip off: H-G Branzell

    • Stephen

      Thinking about the triangles in the earlier videos could the points of these triangles be pointing to the center of the arc? I.e if the arc plane is at an angle to the reactor rather than orthogonal to it. for example. I’m curious if there is an over all pattern here and they are pointing to a particular location inside the reactor or if they are all pointing to an axis or if those triangles are for each pair are pointing to random locations. It would be interesting if two points clearly point to each other over the reaction zone but have larger and larger offsets at greater distances from that zone.

      • Bob Greenyer

        WOW – Someone is thinking, close…. but no biscuit.

      • Axil Axil

        I will take a guess. Let us assume that the flux tube is circular and originates at some point on that arc. It is possible to draw an arc between the north pole and the south pole to determine the location of the circle passing through the surface of the reactor.

        The triangular hole on the surface of the reactor reflects the shape of the flux tube. This shape will reflect the crystal structure of the compound that produced the arc. This compound is metallic hydrogen that is located somewhere inside the reactor, Using some geometry, the various distances between the north and south poles of the points on the surface of the reactor where the various flux tubes emerges through the reactor surface can be used to locate the exact position of the metallic hydrogen molecule inside the reactor.

        The various distances between the north and south poles of these points of emergence show how strong the disintegration field that is produced by the metallic hydrogen.

        • Bob Greenyer

          It is associated with the flux tube.

          • Axil Axil

            What the flux tube does is the biggest science discovery that has occured in the last 200 years. That tube can control the strong force. Transmuting gold or producing a disruptor ray, or a beam to neutralize a nuclear bomb in flight is made possible by that tube.

            Can you make some time to pick up the nobel prize? You might have to take LION with you.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Axil – the active structures can do this, and, much more.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Like I said, I think this may be the experiment of the ….

    • Andreas Moraitis


  • Bob Greenyer

    Please review all recent videos related to LION, it will help with understanding ‘O Day’

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day

    “the very wheelwork of nature” ?

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    Like a circle in a spiral
    Like a wheel within a wheel
    Never ending or beginning
    On an ever-spinning reel
    As the images unwind
    Like the circles that you find
    In the windmills of your mind


    • georgehants

      The whole universe is based on rhythms. Everything happens in circles, in spirals.
      John Hartford

  • Bob Greenyer


    • Stephen

      I’m Looking forward to seeing the trajectories of your thinking. One thing for sure you know how to put different concepts together… This finding the double spots and then linking them to a solitons was remarkably inspired I think.

      There is something else about the double spots their variety and that they always in pairs and symmetric etc that is a bit more mundane but also important… It’s clear proof of a phenomenon and mechanism of some kind.

      If they were just single spots on the reactor or the film someone could argue that it was a production defect of some kind or some simple phenomenon resulting of none uniformity in the production process of the reactor and the film. But these double spots clearly discount that possibility. Clearly something is occurring in the reactor that is responsible for them. That the two very different sources of proof the reactor itself and the film are also supporting this is also remarkable.

      This to me is difficult to explain away. It’s proof of some kind of consistent phenomenon what ever that is. That this is clear proof of a phenomenon what ever it is might be a simple point compared to what else you have found in your extended analysis. But I think it is a fundamentally important one.

      Your soliton loop explanation fits perfectly I think. I’m still amazed you made the link.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Honestly, the next link will literally blow your mind.

        • Stephen

          I’m looking forward to it.

          One way double holes could be formed mundanely that should be looked into I suppose is if there were any fibers that got into the cement. If the formed a loop. If that loop of fiber was later burnt away the could leave double holes. Could that also leave a carbon residue?

          That said I really doubt that fibers during production are the cause of the holes in this case. If it was fibers I would expect the holes to have some uniform size. In the case there is greater variety. The holes are also very small in some cases I suppose much thinner than a hair for example.

          Wouldn’t any carbon resididue also be burnt away? I was wondering if a reduced atmosphere (no oxygen) would account for carbon deposits being left but the Copper Oxide really implies plenty of oxygen was present.

          Nevertheless it would be good to check if there are also features on the tube itself. And if the tube under the cement can be inspected if it also has features that line up with these holes.

          It will be really interesting to see much higher resolution images of these features… the “holes” and the “fibers” and to see their composition

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    “it’s so easy not to find stuff, and you won’t even know what you didn’t find”
    – Kenneth R Shoulders, 2010


    • Ahh – everyone has finally caught up with me (but I’d still say my spiral galaxy is better than your spiral galaxy)!!

      • Bob Greenyer

        but yours has two tails and this one has 3!

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    Why is this list important?

    7Li, 23Na, 39K, 85Rb, 87Rb, 133Cs, 52Cr, 40Ca, 84Sr, 86Sr, 88Sr, 164Dy, 168Er

    Why is the missing member important?

    • artefact


    • Axil Axil


      Fermion of boson

      7Li is a boson (7 nucleons and 3 electrons = even is a boson)

      23Na is a boson (23 nucleons and 11 electrons = even is a boson)

      39K is a boson (39 nucleons and 19 electrons = even is a boson)

      85Rb is a boson ( 85 nucleons and 37 electrons = even is a boson)

      133Cs is a boson ( 133 nucleons and 55 electrons = even is a boson)

      52Cr is a boson ( 52 nucleons and 24 electrons = even is a boson)

      40Ca is boson ( 40 nucleons and 20 electrons = even is boson)

      84Sr is a boson ( 84 nucleon and 38 electrons = even is a boson)

      86Sr is a boson ( 86 nucleon and 38 electrons = even is a boson)

      88Sr is a boson ( 88 nucleon and 38 electrons = even is a boson)

      164Dy is boson (164 nucleon and 66 electrons = even is a boson)

      168Er is a boson (168 nucleons and 68 electrons = even is a boson)

    • Andreas Moraitis

      This list comprises some (but not all) isotopes for which BEC formation has already been experimentally demonstrated. However, there are countless more bosonic atoms that might also be able to form BECs – so this is more or less a random selection.

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    Why did ECCO fuel, Adamenko’s strike debris and Le Claire’s sediment have so much lead in them?

    • Axil Axil

      Lead 207 (Nuclear spin 1/2) is a fermion and will accumulate as ash at the end of the fusion chain.

      Why will LENR fission U238 and not U235?

      U238 is a boson and U235 is a fermion.

    • artefact

      Because it is the biggest stable nuclei and it is on the end of a process that forms(stable)/changes matter?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Right – wrong

        • artefact

          yes! – nooooo 🙂

    • Axil Axil

      Bosons are LENR fuel and fermions are LENR ash.

      • Bob Greenyer

        could be

      • Engineer48

        Hi Axil,

        Photon bosons can impact, xfer energy and momentum with any fermion (quark or lepton).

        This is not new info.

        And Yes anti stokes back scattered photon Bosons are what triggers LENR via deuterons at host matrix interstitially sites.

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    How do you trap a Boson?

    • artefact

      in an “anisotropic trap” or a “magneto optical trap”. I still try to find out what these are 🙂

    • Axil Axil


      Isotope separation in supersonic molecular beams using rf spectroscopy

      Radiative isotope separation (without lasers) has been achieved using isotopic differences in the rf spectrum of paramagnetic molecules in a supersonic nozzle beam. The combination of molecular‐beam magnetic resonance and supersonic molecular‐beam techniques can be used for isotope separation on a large scale. The principle was demonstrated experimentally for molecular oxygen. The vastly larger isotope spectral differences, the tunability of the spectra by external fields, and the use of the well‐developed technologies are promising starting

      RF will excite a fermion more than a boson via nuclear magnetic resonance


      • Engineer48

        Hi Axil,

        Rf is a stream of photon boson.

        Photon bosons can interact with any QM particle that has charge.

    • Bob Greenyer


      Like a tunnel that you follow
      To a tunnel of its own
      Down a hollow to a cavern
      Where the sun has never shone

      Lyrics were written as a ‘stream of consciousness’…

    • Engineer48

      Hi Bob,

      Resonant cavites trap photon bosons.

      But now to trap Gluon, W, Z and Higgs bosons?

      Which one are you planning to trap?

  • Axil Axil

    Since we are dealing with the fermion/boson issue…

    Deuterium will not enter into a gainful LENR reaction as fuel unless it is reformulated. Fusion of deuterium is therefore a secondary reaction.

    Here is how it works.

    First Deuterium is compressed into metallic hydrogen inside a cavity via the uncertainty principle. Once metallic hydrogen is formed, that metallic hydrogen breaks down matter via the flux tupe method including Deuterium into sub atomic particles that eventually decay into muons. Second step, the muons create helium 4 by fusing deuterium via muon catalyzed fusion.

  • Axil Axil

    A post from can

    From the Tern Research website linked above by Ahlfors there’s a press release dated 2017-12-26; it has some interesting tidbits. It looks like they’re doing laser ablation experiments. Metals exposed to ultra-dense hydrogen would take significantly more time to ablate.

    * * * * *

    Press Release 12-26-17 Tern Research
    A Southern Utah entrepreneur has completed a series of experiments at Southern Utah University confirming that an unusual phase of deuterium can exist under the right conditions. This research is based on the work of Prof. Leif Holmlid at the University of Gothenburg in Sweden.

    Mike Taggett, who founded Chums, a sports accessories company, in 1983, is a long time inventor and researcher. Since selling Chums in 2002, Mike has spent most of his time working on alternative energy projects and inventions. He has worked in two labs prior to the one in Cedar City in attempts to verify the existence of Ultra Dense Deuterium (UDD). Deuterium is an isotope of hydrogen, exists in sea water and contains a neutron along with the proton in its nucleus making it heavier than hydrogen.

    He has been studying dense deuterium for the past 5 years and has visited over 15 universities looking for a physics professor that would collaborate with him. “Most physics departments are pretty busy and they are reluctant to spend any time on a material they are skeptical about”. He says. “I understand they are busy but Holmlid has spent over 12 years and has published over 30 papers; it’s a significant discovery.” In 2016, Mike was able to rent lab space at the University of Idaho and looked for changes in surface conductivity of metal samples being exposed to the catalyzed gas. “I was able to build up a good system; vacuum chamber, fast impedance analyzer, etc. but it turned out to be very tricky to get stable readings so the results were not reliable.” I was trying to work there a year later in a laser lab but the project got stuck in bureaucracy.” So Mike kept looking for places to work and did odd jobs to pay the bills.

    He had sold his home and was basically a science vagabond staying in cheap motels around the west. “I was staying in Cedar City and wandered over to SUU. I knew it was a 4 year teaching university, rather than having much research, but I thought I would take a look. I met Professor Ali Siahpush while waiting to see the Engineering Dept. Chair and I mentioned research and he said “Research? Great! If it aligns with our mission and you can use a student to help that would be great!” “Everyone was really helpful getting me going.” Mike says. Mike was on a shoestring budget and built up a system with a rebuilt vacuum chamber, parts from eBay and a laser he borrowed from another university on condition he could repair it.

    Mike and his assistant Ben Thrift, an engineering student, had things up and running in 5 weeks. The work and data collection focused on comparing how the laser “ablates” the metal before and after deposition of the ultra dense layer (ablation is a term for removing material) and in this case the material evaporates directly from the solid rather than melting first.

    Mike says, “Looking into the vacuum chamber through the window, it looks like a welding torch when running as the pulsing laser is powerful but for very short times, about 5 nano seconds per pulse!” Mike and Ben ran over 20 multi-day experiments on a variety of metals and saw a definite change after the dense layer formed. “It would take 200 -300% longer to ablate through the metal. Pretty amazing considering the invisible UDD layer is really thin, perhaps just atoms thick!” “Of course there is always the chance of an alternative explanation but right now the results are positive,” he says.

    Mike thinks the dense deuterium could have applications for energy storage or space propulsion. “It’s really fun and challenging to work in an emerging field. I am one of just three groups that I know of working on this.” “Who knows what can be done with this unique material?”

    The next step he says is to further the work with different types of particle and energy detectors to better understand UDD. Mike says, “A big thanks to Julia Anderson, Dean Robert Eves and professors Ali Siahpush, Matt Roberts, Scott Munro and Sangho Bok for helping me get going at SUU.”



    The electron spin wave on the surface of the ultra dense hydrogen protects UDH from destruction up until the neutron star pressure limit (1.5 to 3.0 solar masses),.


    Holmlid states above as seen in his experiments as follows:

    Coulomb explosions in H(0) in spin state s = 1 generate protons with kinetic energies larger than the retaining gravitational energy at the photosphere of the Sun. The required proton kinetic energy above 2 keV has been directly observed in published experiments.

    2KeV translates into a temperature of 20,000,000C.

    Eugene Wigner and Hillard Bell Huntington predicted that under an immense pressure of around 25 GPa (250,000 atm; 3,600,000 psi) hydrogen would display metallic properties:

    If it takes that much pressure to form metallic hydrogen, it should require at least that much pressure to destroy it.

    When Silvera and Dias managed to turn hydrogen metallic, it was at a pressure of 495 GPa, well beyond the 360 GPa of Earth’s core.

    That is 4,950,000 atm of pressure at least to destroy it.

    But when metallic hydrogen forms, then you need to deal with degeneracy pressure.

    View this video to understand degeneracy pressure.



    Electron degeneracy pressure will halt the gravitational collapse of a star if its mass is below the Chandrasekhar limit (1.39 solar masses[5]). This is the pressure that prevents a white dwarf star from collapsing. A star exceeding this limit and without significant thermally generated pressure will continue to collapse to form either a neutron star or black hole, because the degeneracy pressure provided by the electrons is weaker than the inward pull of gravity.

    This video is informative also.

    Where to Find Some Metallic Hydrogen – Ask a Spaceman!


    It is all about degenerate electron pressure.

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    Why did Prof. Francesco Piantelli get a severe ‘burn’, through his clothing, https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6794c8796bb3a60c6ffd814476f4e7c9e9bb5fe8f912eb0016438a6e27c0d2f3.png after bending over in line with the glass electrical pass-through at the TCs end of the reactor in the schematic below?

    • Axil Axil

      The active LENR agent exited the the glass electrical pass-through at the TCs end of the reactor, penetrated Piantell’s clothing and initiated the :LENR reaction on Piantelli’s skin. The LENR agent converted Piantelli’s skin to heat.

      • Bob Greenyer

        No, not that kind of burn.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Mills would say it was EUV. (Indeed, apparent ‘sun burns’ are documented in replications of his experiments.) But I think that betas, or other forms of energetic electrons, could cause similar injuries.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Certainly enough to penetrate through glass air and cloth.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Andreas,

        XRay photons could also cause reddened skin.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Yes, Mills’ reported emissions reach from EUV to the X-ray range.

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    “As above, so below”


    Where was this understanding recorded and what is the ‘secret’ it contained?

    Who did a famous translation of it?

    • Frost*

      Occult day is coming…

      How long until the presentation is ready??

      • Bob Greenyer

        Occult – Ancient Knowledge

        I need to 3D model the active structure and animate it, other than that, I have most of the things to build the presentation – typically, It comes together very fast at the end. What I am trying to do is give people a context as I do my work.

        • Stephen

          I’m enjoying whatching this story evolve. What knowledge is already out there that just needs context and re-understanding. Or is it re-evolving. Or revolving…

          What kind of revolition is just over the horizon of this worlds sphere, the music of the heavenly and fundamental spheres or the cycles and circles of the mind?

          Is everything in a dance of circles in resonance from the smallest fundamental to universally large?

          If understanding of EVO’s are fundamental, and O is the object then if we ourselves are to evolve we need to reflect evolve.

          Allow your intuition to guide you when the time is ready it will be right.

          • Stephen

            Ahhh Is see.

            A vortex has a head and a tail. Either it is propagating or localised. But to be stable and self sustaining while localized the head has to eat it’s tail.

            Circles within circles.

            It’s amazing

            Is this true of the most fundamental I wonder?.. does everything we know naturally derive from this principle?

            Perhaps the cycles of the ages are also a soliton.


          • Bob Greenyer


        • artefact

          Donut day sounds better.

          • Stephen

            Wow! I never realized donuts were Soooo important.

          • Bob Greenyer

            mmmm donut’s…

          • artefact

            But with the small crumbles and bigger chocolate chips inside of it
            riding the cavity in circles (windmills). The taste being the single
            frequency (suhas).

    • artefact

      “The earliest known version dates from sometime after the fifth century AD,
      but in legend it dates back thousands of years previously, supposedly
      written by Hermes Trismegistos, who has been identified with both the
      biblical Enoch and the Egyptian God Thoth.

      The text itself is a short Alchemical piece describing the preparation of the Prima Materia, inferring
      that processes in Nature or macrocosm (that which is Above) are
      analogous to processes in the alchemical lab or microcosm (that which is
      Below). On a superficial level it is atmospheric dew (e.g “The Golden
      Chain of Homer”), but the deeper meaning is that the Prima Materia is the Anima Mundi, or consciousness itself.”

      • Bob Greenyer


        No listen again to “Windmills of your mind”

        Read what Suhas Ralkar said on the other thread, coming from a Hindu viewpoint.

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    Look at these images more closely
    – what do you see?
    – what does it tell you?


    • artefact

      More of the hair like structures. Randomly orientated. Smooth surface. Mostly straight. Some are fallen down.
      They don’t seem to be attached to the copper oxide and are made of a different substance.

      edit: Rossi mentionend on the demo day to someone (in the not edited footage) that the “core” is thin like a hair. But he did not mean all the reactor space.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Look harder

        • artefact

          K image right picture on the bottom left: there seems to be a very long “hair” either on the ground or from the reactor to the ground.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I admire your tenacity.

            Not hairs.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            And this relates to excess heat when a deuterated Pd cathode has an 82 MHz Rf signal applied how?

          • artefact

            The data is corrupted. But Allen Smith says on Lenr-forum that the result include extended periods of self-sustain.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Artefact,

            So no proof the Lion core sample ever experienced LENR?

            Not a fan of Lenr-Forum but will check what Alan said.

            Which doesn’t answer what all this arm waving has to do with explaining the two well documented examples given.

          • artefact

            Also a lot of radiaton tracks.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Artefact,

            Identified by what expert in the field?

            Show me the before and after fuel analysis.

          • artefact

            The holes and “hairs” must have been created during or after the copper became an oxide?

          • Pink Panther

            A layman’s observation: The “hair” structure in the right J image appears to show an area where the surface on either side of the structure is being ‘sucked’ away – possibly in the direction of the ‘hair’. Maybe here we are getting element formation.

    • Bernard Pierrat

      Looks like 2 wormholes on J.

    • HAL9000

      Be careful Bob. People with knowledge of O Day tend to vanish into Above Black operations (or Partner Ops in distant places).

      • Bob Greenyer

        Contingency has been put in place

    • Stephen

      Are the holes and other structural features always on top of the wires?

      Even the cannon seems to shoot across a gap between the wires.

      If so this might imply something about those regions above the copper wire. It’s local thermal nature or the fact that the wire itself is conductive.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Keep thinking.

        • Stephen

          Is there an explanation for how the silver got transported there? It’s melting point is 961 deg C but it’s boiling point is 2162 deg C.

          Could t be transported there as a fluid or would it need to be in vapor form?

          Does it occur on the whole circumference of the surface or just one side that was at the top or bottom of the reactor when in use.

          Could it have been transported there in a series of hops.

          Silver is also highly conductive.

          Is there any evidence of copper deposits that could have come from the wire or nickel deposits?

          Is there any way to make an isotopic analysis on that silver to see if it is in natural isotopic ratio.

          Did LION by any chance run any experiment without silver on the end of the reactor? It would be interesting to see what this showed.

          Are these bumps and holes features only present when silver was used?

          Was there any silver deposits when it was not used on the end of the reactor?

          • Bob Greenyer

            NOW you are thinking Steve – well done – that was going to be another intermediate post.

            The Silver has migrated, how??

          • Stephen

            It’s a bit buried here so may still be worth adding an intermediate post.

            I’m curious what comes up

  • Axil Axil

    The ejecta that was expelled out of the cannon looks like a uniform light weight material…maybe carbon, This is important that this material is uniform because it must have been produced instantaneously in one shot. Billions of a mixture of carbon and copper oxide atoms were formed from hydrogen in an instant.

    The shape of the flux tube is triangular. A three dimensional profile of the path that the flux tube has produces as it bored cleanly through the surface material will show more the tubes overall shape.

    • Bob Greenyer

      It will certainly be the thing to first look at in the next SEM session.

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    Parkhomov neutrino stimulated decay experiment apparatus

    Will this be relevant to ‘O Day’?


  • Axil Axil

    Two particles are required to produce LENR: the electron and the photon. These two particles combine to produce a boson that is called a polariton. The magnetically active polariton is called a magnon. When these particles combine together, this composite particle can produce a Bose condensate where its spin is important. This condensate combines and focuses the spins of trillions of magnons into a narrow flux tube.

    The energy level of this quasiparticle is irrelevant, its spin is what is LENR active. These particles produce a magnetic flux tube whose properties are special. IMHO, the special property is chirality or polarization of the magnetism that can disrupt the chiral balance of the subatomic particles inside the proton. Chirality is the rotational direction of the spin of the particle: either right handed or left handed,



    LENR is decay of the proton when the chiral properties of some of the particles inside the proton is changed by the magnetic flux tube.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Axil,

      You do understand a polariton is a quasiparticle that does not really exist as a real particle? It is just an emergent structure of matter, like a snow flake or a crystal matrix.

      As such you need to focus on what the real particles are doing when you try to explain LENR.

      In explaining LENR, try doing it with just elementary particles, ie electrons, protons, quarks, etc plus explain the energy / momentum flow & changes.

      • Axil Axil

        Polaritons exist as a symbiont of another structure. Such a structure may be a metal nanoparticle where the SPP exists on its surface or another structure is the metallic hydrogen molecule where the SPP exists on its surface spin wave.

        But from what the LION experiment is showing is that the SPP condensate can decouple from the structure that first produced it n become free roaming like ball lightning.

        This means that the properties of the electron and the photon can exist in a superposition where they are in two places at once, both on the surface of the original supporting structure and free roaming in the far field.

        You need to thing of particles like the electron not as a fundamental unit but as a collection of characteristics such as charge, spin and orbit. This characteristics can be decoupled from the particle and exist on their own.

        Inside the SPP, only the spin of the electron is present, the charge and orbit is someplace else.

        This fragmentation of particle characteristics is well known in solid state physics.



        • Engineer48

          Hi Axil,

          There is no proven excess heat in the Lion experiment, no pre then post ash analysis, no excess energy generation.

          Nothing but a burnt core that could have been created many ways.

          Yet folks here are doing high fives like this is the holy grail of LENR, which without supportative evidence is just an overheated rod of copper wire wound on an alumina tube.

          Please stop with the EVO stuff. Show me the data where EVOs have been created and their physical properties measured and determined.

          I assume you do understand your SPP is just a stream of common photons travelling along a dielectric boundary. Commonly called a Surface Wave where 50% of the time the photon E field is in one dielectric, say metal and 50% in the other dielectric, say air.

          Nothing new here as Rf radio waves can be surface waves, travelling along the dielectric boundry between sky and earth or sky and water.

          • Axil Axil

            “There is no proven excess heat” together with “nothing but a burnt core” is a Non Sequitur.

            it does not follow


          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            Why does a burnt copper core mean there was excess heat?

            Many ways to heat up that core.

            The Model T reactor heater wire can get hot enough to melt copper at 1,085C.

          • Axil Axil

            Bob found nickel melted inside the reactor.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            We have no idea what was done to the core that Lion sent to Bob.

            Easy to melt Ni inside the alumina tube.

            As there are no heat profiles, no energy input and output analysis, no pre & post fuel analysis no one can claim what happened to the core was the result of a LENR reaction.

            Why did Lion not send Bob a complete reactor that could independently produce the end result but instead just sent the core and no way to verify what generated the end result?

            If Rossi tried to do this, his core would be rejected by all concerned, yet when Lion does this, no one questions his core.

            I await Lion providing an entire working reactor to Bob or Alan to properly test.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I suspect there was both excess heat AND excess cooling, and not locally in balance.

            Will explain on ‘O Day’

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,


            So you don’t know for sure there was a LENR reaction in the fuel, inside the alumina tube the 3 layers of copper wire was wound on?

            Why are you doing testing when you have no certainty there was a LENR reaction?

            So far, AFAIK, no excess heat from:

            1) any MFMP experiment
            2) ditto for Me356
            3) ditto for Suhas
            4) ditto for Nova
            5) ditto for Lion
            6) ditto for your visit to Parkhomov
            7) ditto for anything Alan has published

            Have you ever seen significant excess heat?

            OK what is “excess cooling”?

          • Bob Greenyer

            E48, It is clear you have not been following our work.

            I would agree on 4)

            We have never called it because you need extraordinary proof in this field. Beta burst, Gamma, Neutrons and transmutations variously in all other examples.

            It is the sum of the parts that is greater than the whole.

            Look at these videos. Think. What are they telling you?



            If you can’t see it, you will after ‘O Day’

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            With respect there was no significant excess heat reported in all the examples I quoted.

            Are you now defining a new class of LENR reaction where Beta, Gamma, Neutron emissions and transmutations occur but without excess heat?

            McKubre has stated that he believes He generation is NOT related with excess heat. Which implies the He which is seen in LENR reactors is not generated by deuteron fussion. Is that where you are going?

          • Bob Greenyer

            My personal belief, and based on many different iterations, including the Steel and Glass cells is, that with Celani wire, we saw excess heat and charge cluster destruction (Late 2013, replicated by JPB within 24 hours). It was the 12.5% on Dec 14, 2012 that hooked me. 2 years later, Celani’s data iterated closer to ours after Mathieu Valat found an error in his set-up.

            It is more complicated than that and there is not a simple answer. It literally depends on your perspective and how the system is controlled. Keep asking questions though as it will help me understand what needs to be said to make things clear on ‘O Day’.

          • Stephen

            I think that Bob position recently has been that basic underlying phenomenon behind what we call LENR may have more expressions of phenomena than excess heat. Although excess heat is a big part of it.

            There are many ideas around about the underlying processes. And also many claimed expressions of the phenomenon experimentally.

            So putting together data from these different sources can help us maybe understand what underlies it all.

            I do think that looking at other aspects rather than just focusing on excess heat can give a better view point and greater understanding of the underlying process. Some aspects maybe false starts or explained by other phenomenon but it’s important to look an d consider what is presented. MFMP have remarkably managed to get access to the tools and an open science community to analyse test and evaluate what is presented.

            Many have focused on how the process at some level produces heat. And others like Bob, Axil and yourself are also thinking about what underlies that process.

            These kinds of ideas need evidence so any kind of analysis that can give a window on the different processes is useful I think.

            Often in science though when we look somewhere new searching for what we think we understand we find something new and unexpected that also needs further explanation.

          • Engineer48


            Generating transmutations needs energy to break and reform bonds. Work needs to be done.

            Unless that is energy release neutral, which is not possible, there will be energy released plus momentum kicks given to the electrons and quarks that will cause the matrix vibration, it’s temperature to increase.

            So if you want transmutations, there must be waste energy, momentum transfer, work done and things heated up.

            So no excess heat, ie no work done, no transmutations will happen.

          • Stephen

            A good point and I would agree. I suppose even considering the standard model just adding removing a quanta of energy and making a state change in the form of some boson or a meson exchange or lepton/ neutrino emission would result in a change of bonds and conservation of energy and momentum would necessitate this. Even if kinetic energy was not put into the system. Conservation laws and thermodynamics laws would still need to be conserved.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Stephen,

            To alter momentum you must do work to alter velocity.

            So altering momentum means KE change and that means work was done.

            Momentum and KE are tied together at the hip.

            p = mv
            ke = mv^2/2

            Can’t alter one without altering the other.

          • Stephen

            Yup I agree. I think this is understood though. Isn’t it?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Stephen, who wrote:
            “Even if kinetic energy was not put into the system.

            When you alter momentum, work is done to alter mass’ velocity and KE alters.

            You don’t put KE into the system. KE alters when force does work to move mass.

            If the force does not move the mass, then no work is done and KE does not alter.

          • Stephen

            E48. I said even if kinetic energy was *** not put into the system ***

            Not it was not generated in the system.

            As in colliding objects colliding with something as in hot fusion

            In thermodynamics laws the system is the object.

            My point was that if any energy was generated in side a static system and expressed kinetically or through photon emission (that also carries momentum) that it would necessitate what you said. Both kinetic energy and momentum would be generated and conserved. I was agreeing with you.

            But for goodness sake this is too basic. And to be honest it’s s bit insulting assuming people don’t understand these basics.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Stephen,

            Have found many folks do not have a clear understanding of how Force, Work, Momentum, Velocity, Acceleration, Time, Mass and KE relate to each other.

            Was told not that long ago that a photon could be emitted with the same energy as on absorb and still xfer momentum to the impacted particle.

            If so it would be a free energy machine.

          • Stephen

            Well if they were talking about Mossbauer isotopes and crystallography they might be partly corrected but it depends on the vibrations in the crystal as you know I guess.

          • Axil Axil

            The true test of the existence of a LENR reaction is the detection of transmutation of elements. The format of the energy that comes from that LENR reaction may not be excess heat, it could be gamma radiation, for example, or it could be sub atomic particle production. As Rossi has shown, it takes many years to get the LENR reaction to do what you want it to do. in short to harness it.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            Then we have McKubre saying making excess heat in LENR is boringly simple and he seeks other challenges.

            If the excess heat is in gamma photons then there would be dead LENR researchers.

            I have explained how back scattered anti Stokes photons can carry away the quarks strong force glue, triggering matrix heating via increased matrix vibration from monentum back kick as the higher energy anti Stokes photons are emitted.

            Plus as the deuteron’s quarks are slowly drained of energy the neutron will flip into a proton, capturing a nearby electron and flip back to a neutron. This process will continue until the strong force energy is drained enough to allow the proton and neutron to eject from the strong force drained nucleus. The ejected neutron would be captured by nearby Pd atoms driving transmutations while the proton would probably ping around the matrix until it finally gets kicked out of the matrix as a low velocity H+ ion.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I agree with your seven points, and I also think that melting of the material does not prove anything. However, the major difference in Lion’s experiment is IMO the electric output of about 20W for 30 minutes. If that effect was real (no forgotten cable etc.) it would be remarkable, even without excess energy. Besides, some details like the ‘double spots’, the ‘crackling’ sound and the EDS analysis look at least interesting to me. We will have to wait for the MFMP’s replication attempt in order to see if there is something to this or not.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The replication by the author of LION has been completed, the reactor did extraordinary things apparently and it is on its way to me today for analysis, I will not believe what I am told until I see it.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            You are receiving a fully operational Looking For Heat reactor setup and LENR functional fuel tubes that produce a significant COP and which MFMP can operate, test and confirm the COP?

            If so wonderful news.

            Please share your testing live and on line.

          • Bob Greenyer

            This will occur after I have analysed LION 2 and shared the findings.

          • Engineer48


            Have you broken into the alumina tube and analysed the fuel?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Andreas,

            Why do an analysis of the outer copper oxide layer of 3 lower layers of copper wire? What is the point?

            There is the oxide layer, then 3 layers of copper wire, then the alumina tube and then the fuel, where the interest is.

            Crack open the alumina tube and analyse the fuel. Who cares what happened to that outer oxidized layer of copper?

  • Axil Axil

    The EVO is a secondary LENR causation factor. The EVO is a bag of energy much like a laser pulse. When the EVO hits the surface of a metal, the energy release that the EVO produces generates a polariton soliton. This soliton is what is the primary LENR agent.

    • Bob Greenyer

      no and yes, kinda

  • Bob Greenyer

    Brilliant and transformational experiment performed over decades for a song. I reckon if you looked hard enough, you could actually find a shoe string in there!

  • Engineer48

    Hi Hal,

    Too bad Parkhomov could not show Bob a reactor producing excess heat when he visited.

    Just like when Bob visited Me356 and Suhas there were problems and the claimed results could not be made to appear.

    Now he has a core claimed to be from Lion but zero evidence to support the core melting was caused by LENR excess heat.

  • Bob Greenyer

    O Day is coming…

    3 6 9

    The windmills of your mind

    “Like a snowball down a mountain”

  • georgehants

    Wonderful day, while we wait for “O” day a little joy for us.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I love this track! Thanks again for sharing.

  • Stephen

    It might be my imagination but in the J picture that was posted by Bob earlier are there two smaller cannons parallel to about equal distance either side of but just below the main cannon feature?

    Also maybe a hint of one about equal distance up on the right. If so this is quite a curious feature. Their spacing arrangement and alignment.

    They don’t appear elsewhere.

    Probably it’s just my eyes seeing things but thought it was curious enough to mention.

    Another point do I see light and dark very fine tracks in the K pictures? Or are they different scale and cause than the other tracks seen and posted by LION?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Stephen, I do actually mention them in the video – keep looking, there is a much more interesting feature on both of those images.

      • Stephen

        Ahh I missed that will take a look again at the video. Interesting.

      • Stephen

        There seem to be some circle pairs that don’t contain holes. So either the holes are filled or the feature that generated them did not puncture the cement.

        But I guess it’s something else too?

        • Bob Greenyer

          It’s something else.

          • Stephen

            Interestingly the larger silver splashes in the J picture each seem to have a round dark spot in them. Almost as if they are eruption sites.

            I could be imagining it but worth a look I think.

            I guess it’s not what you are mentioning as that’s in the J picture only I think.

            I have a feeling I will want to kick my self when we find out the mystery feature. 😉

          • Bob Greenyer

            You will

            And the same things are on the Gif (that will be made public of course) that will be featured in the video I am editing now.

          • artefact

            Are the “excrementals” from J not in K?

          • Stephen

            Hmmm I wonder if it is to with the patterning.

            I could be imagining it as it’s at the edge of my perception.

            On th J image the wing of the silver dragonfly almost seems to have radial striations in the direct of wing or silver splash those marks almost looks like it continues and curves around the main splash some how.

            On the K image there also seems to be some kind of curving patterning on the left of the image originating from around a dark spot feature.

            They look a bit like field lines to my imagination.

            On the topographical image in the J picture ther is a bow wave in front of the dragon fly which may follow these features but on the K Picture topographical features following the patterning are not so apparent so looks it like it could be another cause than topographical patterning perhaps materials? Or polarization effects?

            I could be over imagining it but maybe…

          • Bob Greenyer

            See if you can spot it on the gif from the next presentation, more obvious.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            What about the white areas (mainly in the right part of the „J 200x” image)? Are those artifacts?

          • Bob Greenyer

            How many people know how to contrast adjust – might become more obvious then.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            They are mostly completely white (RGB 255, 255, 255), so changing the contrast does not help.

  • artefact

    From MFMP:

    LION – tractor beam

    “Was it the solenoid of the heater coil or the act of lighting the bulb
    that aligned whatever is encrusted on the outside of the LION core and
    moved the silver down its length?”


  • georgehants

    Science Codex
    Diamonds show promise for spintronic devices
    Conventional quantum devices are based on multiple thin layers of
    semiconductors, which require an elaborate fabrication process in an
    ultrahigh vacuum. “Diamond is normally an extremely good insulator,”
    Akhgar said. But, when exposed to hydrogen plasma, the diamond
    incorporates hydrogen …

  • georgehants

    Morning, I wake-up every morning looking forward to the debate on the snippets that Bob is putting up re. “O” day, just say thank you to Bob and all the guys in the band that are involved.
    After 8 years waiting for nothing from Rossi, all wishes that MFMP’s “O” day will be revealing of new open science.

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