LION-AG Active Run Started (Alan Goldwater — Updated with Live Doc)

The following post has been posted by Alan Goldwater of the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project

LION-AG active run started at 23:50 UTC on 7 April. The streaming data is available at

https://plot.ly/~QuantumHeat/33/lion-ag-temperature-power/

Plotly update is pretty slow, so be patient and it will eventually show the moving graph of temps and power.

The fuel load and core construction is as close to the LION-provided description as possible, but with added thermocouples for measurement of the core temperature. Five calibrations were performed, showing good stability and power resolution of around 5 watts. The initial program is a 48-hour linear ramp from 100 C to 800 C, followed by a soak period or temperature cycling, depending on conditions at that time. Full details of the experimental setup will be made available shortly.

AlanG

UPDATE: Here is the link to the Live DOC I have created where continue to update the relevant content as the experiment progresses:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zavehvGweALvdLW5h-wa9T_mpyErhsCppMXxizazc5s/edit

  • Anon2012_2014

    Am I running the plot.ly interface right — i only get 2 minute of data (the latest two minutes) at a time.

    • Bob Greenyer

      They seem to have crippled it somewhat – then there is a $400 annual fee for an account – but Alan has tried to see if it improves things but there does not seem to be anyone that you can call.

      Here is the first of two calibrations

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/de499c06a5b501c9ab4773ed1e46ab28f045a19bbfd479074cd7e06c94b4a86c.png

      • Bruce__H

        In this calibration run, is the PID controller reading Tactive or Tactive_front?

        I didn’t expect to see a 100C difference between the front and back thermocouples. I don’t think I saw that in the control run from last week and I don’t see it in the ongoing active run.

        • magicsnd1

          The PID is connected to Tactive, an Omega high-temp thermocouple inserted through the back of the reactor body into the heated bore. The TCs labelled “front” are the ones in the core, which is why they get hotter. I think the copper wire over wrap conducts heat from the quartz heater tube into the core.

          The primary TC’s inserted through the back of the reactor are only heated by air conduction and IR from the heater, and there is also a conduction path from the TC sheath into the brick body of the reactor, which draws some of the heat away. The differential is much less at lower temperatures, and the first calibration only reached 600C, so the effect was less evident.

          The first calibration run showed that the primary TC measurements were highly sensitive to the depth of insertion into the reactor. Subsequent calibrations were used to carefully adjust those positions for best differential accuracy, and they were then glued in place with epoxy.

    • Bob Greenyer

      It might be a number of samples issue or a code choice – there seems to be a lot of discussion on the problem.

      https://community.plot.ly/t/slow-data-update-in-plotly-js-with-live-data/8173

      This evening – I may set up a you-tube stream that will allow people to look through the data continuously from that point.

    • magicsnd1

      Here’s a trick you can try: clicking on the Plot.ly
      “Data” button, then back to “Plot” usually gives an updated plot without redrawing the whole thing. It seems to extend the plot in increments of 4 minutes or so.

      Doing a browser refresh will lose all the prior history of your page view, so the above trick is the better choice.

      • artefact

        I just use the “Autoscale” button to refresh the data and not loose the history.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Here is the schematic for the cell, courtesy of Alan G. This obviously is an analogue of LION, in each of the active and nulls there is a core TC which is not present in the original LION experiments. this will give us an idea of the core temperature when we get claimant cores (which do not have a core TC). The idea of having the bolt section in the core is so that the discs have a chemically similar environment to the LIONs.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6dbe605653e967944ec5b4e5e23744a289ffce5124c75db347b579082c0cd07c.jpg

    • gerold.s

      Hi Bob, thanks for schematic. Would it be possible to explain the different components of reactor core in more detail with regard to anticipated functionality. Thanks gerold

      • Stephen Taylor

        Thanks for asking this very important question. Alan has devised a very good experiment, however it doesn’t look like a replication attempt. Too many differences from the LION protocol.
        On the other hand, what do we really have certain knowledge of regarding the “LION protocol”? From my perspective, nothing.

        • gerold.s

          Hi Stephan, I read the term “LION protocol” a couple of times, but I didn’t see any further details. Maybe I missed it? Do you have further info? Link? regards gerold

          • Stephen Taylor

            Well, not so much. Bob may be able to define it but my knowledge of it is cumulative from reading and watching his hard work. Also, Alan Smith has provided some info from his conversations witn the LION presenter. At this point it’s just memory for me but there’s tons of info if you want to dig you can start with mfmp Facebook.

          • magicsnd1

            @Gerold I would be happy to explain the functionality if I could. At this point we have only theories, particularly about the use of Diamonds and Nickel. As I mentioned earlier, this is as close to a LION replication as I can do with the information given to BobG and AlanS by LION. The only deviation has been to install core thermocouples in partial replacement of the mild steel bolt LION said he used as a filler. The Diamond discs and their preparation are just as described by him, the LFH reactor and alumina core tubes are identical, and the long slow heating ramp is like the one shown in the single complete LION data file we have been able to retrieve.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Thanks Alan, you guys know a lot more about it than I have been able to ascertain. That’s a good thing.
            Very best wishes to all and thanks for the hard work and investment of resources. Hope the Norton is well. Enjoy the day!

          • Stephen Taylor

            The biggest problem, from my point of view is that we really have no certain knowledge of how the LION 2 reactor remains came to be in their extremely interesting physical state.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Hi Gerold,

            The basic protocol was discussed here

            https://youtu.be/_jV_XVgMRiA

            We have a working document here.

            https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zavehvGweALvdLW5h-wa9T_mpyErhsCppMXxizazc5s/edit?usp=sharing

          • Stephen Taylor

            This “docs.google.com” link above is very important documentation. It tells a lot about what we know and don’t know regarding the LION reactor. Seems I’ve missed a lot and need to pay attention.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Bob, I was just studying the “LION experiment live docs” you linked just above ” the working document”. Not sure how I missed all this but thank you again for being on top of all this.

            The part that strikes me at the moment, as an old amateur radio guy, is the copper coil with diapads arranged as toast slices inside the inductive coil.

            It was a mystery to me how the diapads could be “wrapped” in the magnet wire. Clumsy.

            So, it seems he wound a tight diameter coil, like a small inductive coil, and slotted the diapads into this. So, aside from possibly shorting out the coil (insulated by coating until very hot) we have an interesting, frequency sensitive, inductively resonant system driven by the dc heating coil solenoid.

            The diamonds are supposedly electron emmiters. Especially at some of their many sharp ends.

            Such a system could be very sensitive to small changes in the diapad enclosed coil diameter, coil spacing, heater coil diameter and spacing, on/off frequency of heater pulses and who knows what. If any of this is radio frequency dependent and tuneable then a success might be tough to reproduce without understanding the harmonics, resonances, and the physical sizes critical to achieve resonance.

          • Skip

            I’m not sure exactly what Lion did but that’s what we did essentially. RF is easy to make and hard to eliminate, I have no idea if it’s effect is “effective“.
            There will be pics and vids. They will help…

          • Stephen Taylor

            I’m concerned about shorting the little nickel wire coil by contact with the nickel diapads. The coated copper magnet wire might avoid short circuiting for a while. Not sure at all here. Blowing smoke rings of electrons out of the diamonds inside the small coil seems like a nice dream anyway.

          • Bob Greenyer

            *I can visualize “blowing smoke rings” of electrons on power pulses.*

            you are exactly right here. well done.

            LION, as you can see from the working document, clarified that the ‘toast rack’ idea was just that not actually implemented in LION 1 or 2 – he just dropped the disks in – is this important? I suspect not since the diamonds have, as I have shown with microscopy, all orientations.

          • gerold.s

            Hi Bob, thanks for info. Q: do you know the purpose for the copper wire wrap around the alumnia tube? Thanks for info

          • Bob Greenyer

            It is my understanding that this may have been a perfect spacer and good heat conductor spreader. I had said in IIT Mumbai presentation over a year ago that Cu would be a perfect metal (cost / melting point and conductivity wise) to store the active agent – though I don’t know if this factored into LIONs thinking.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Here is a playlist for the Diapad Diamond/Nickel ‘cookie’ processing.

            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBgQorZu_mLloy83Q5QSulQuNcYMusIcQ

          • Bob Greenyer

            Here is a playlist on SEM/EDX analysis done so far on LION 2.

            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBgQorZu_mLmWE_qJaeONoWQnhvsaF4gg

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            Have you started the SEM/EDX analysis of the melted “Blob” that you found inside the Lion 2 fuel tube?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Not yet.

            What I will be doing this week, in addition to supporting Alan G. is preparing a hit list of things that need to be tested and protocols for doing so – the blob is one of the main ones. Due to the fact that it is bonded to the core ceramic there is a challenge to remove it with minimum contamination and damage to the rest of the core.

            We need to establish a protocol for acid dissolving and drying raw FeCrAl wire (LION has sent me some unused – should arrive soon), bolt section and a similar amount of the affected heater coil material to determine concentrations of Manganese.

            I also want to start to gain access to CEITEC as it is too damn expensive to use the university for analysis. Also, CEITEC have WDS, so we can verify presence of elements or not where EDS causes an overlap.

  • Bob Greenyer

    This is the first of 3 tentatively planned analogue experiments.

    Skip is supporting Alan Goldwater in Santa Cruz.

    • Stephen Taylor

      Apologies first, I support all of you hard working people. You are trying to make the world (survive) a better place!

      Why are we doing analogues when we haven’t done precise replication yet?

      What do we really know about the “LION protocol”? What is certain knowledge? We know the physical remnants but how did they come to be in this state?

      Perhaps we don’t know exactly how LION 2 reactor remains were generated so we operate as best we can with the very limited information we have.

      Wishing the best for all who work to improve our species chances for survival. We may be unique in our knowable space and time. Probably it would be good for us to thrive and improve our behavior.

      • Skip

        Thanx for your support and questions. Paragraph 4 nails it. I could think of a dozen or more variables. To do an exact replication would require being at his place, using his materials and tools in the exact environment but without him present (after he had coached us in person). That ain’t gonna happen. However, if he supplies a Lion built cell, perhaps we would be close. This may happen with Alan Smith…

      • Bob Greenyer

        We don’t like doing it this way – but it is cutting teeth with a new process.

        What Alan is doing here has already provided important understanding about the difference between the core temperature and the PID TCs. Also, Alan G established how different the PID TCs can be with a slight variation in position – This is fixed and you can see the impressive coherence you have between these temperatures between active and null side in the live feed.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Hi Bob, do you know if LION used a ‚twin setup’ (one fueled and one unfueled tube, wired in series)? Or did he run only a single (active) reactor?

      • Bob Greenyer

        As far as I understand, he had a simple null core (no diamond discs), perhaps he would like to chime in and clarify when he has a moment.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Skip, as I recall, the LION diapad discs were wrapped with the same copper magnet wire that was used to double wrap the alumina tube. Do you know why the decision was taken to wrap them in “Ni wire coil” as per the diagram?

    • Skip

      Others may add more info but setting 25 tiny pads into the tiny coil of wire was tricky enough without having them constantly falling out due to the lack of springyness of the copper. The nickel worked better and we already had nickel in the cell due to the pads.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Yes, I wondered how it would be possible to wrap those discs in any kind of wire. Congrats on finding a way forward. Probably there is a lot we don’t know about how the LION 2 reactor remains came to be in the very interesting condition documented so well by Bob. What an interesting mystery. Good luck and best wishes for shedding some light on this very important area.

        • Skip

          Ya, it wasn’t about winding the pads with wire, it was winding the appropriate diameter of coil and fitting the pads within the turns.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Enlightenment can feel embarrassing. Of course that would be the way to “wrap” the diapads. Hello to Alan and his Norton from me and the Moto Guzzi. 😉

          • Skip

            MG? Almost up to my bike, from which I can look down from, and smile on my Norton friends
            😉

          • Bob Greenyer

            You know you want to show a photo skip.

          • Stephen Taylor
          • Stephen Taylor

            Alan’s Norton showed up on a 360 photo tour of his lab some year or years ago. For me it was one of the highlights of the virtual tour. Thanks for sharing Alan. Now, Skip, please post up.

          • Skip
          • Stephen Taylor

            Thanks Skip, may be off topic but it’s great to “meet” you and appreciate your interests. Not to belabour the side show but “what is it??”. I should know, looks very custom, I’d guess custom Harley but thought I saw a jug on the right side ala BMW.

          • Robert Dorr

            It’s a Honda.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Ooooh, now I see it on disqus app. No uncertainty there, six big cylinders and a whole lotta shine. Sweet and so smooth. Not to mention a few hp more than my Toyota. 🙂

          • Stephen Taylor

            The work you guys are doing is very important and I certainly wish you the best.

    • Alan Smith

      Actually, this was only an idea LION wanted to try. In LION2 AFAIK the diapads were just dropped into the tube.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Oh! How interesting. Would you agree that we have little certain knowledge of any protocol that Neil has used to produce multiple separate successful experiments? Just trying to get an idea what we really know and what might be the prospects for producing a sucesucces replication.

        • Alan Smith

          All I can say Stephen is that there are bound to be unknowns – but we don’t yet know what they are. I am sure however, that in the fullness of time (hopefully in April) we will discover what they are.

    • magicsnd1

      We tried doing it with the copper wire, but it is too soft to retain the discs. I had pure Nickel wire (200 alloy, 99%+ purity) on hand, so we used that. Since there is already Nickel in the discs, it should not make a difference. The discs are not wrapped with the wire, but rather just inserted into the turns of a tiny Nickel wire spring.

      • Stephen Taylor

        It’s fine except there’s no copper in the immediate internal reactor vicinity of the diapads. No idea if this is important and Alan S says below that LION may have only been considering this but my understanding was that he wrapped the pads in magnet wire same as the external double wrap. Also, the galvanized bolt was cemented and the head was available external to provide a contact for measurement of current post reaction. (Don’t we wish.)
        Anyway, wishing you the best and I will support best I can. 🙂

  • Bob Greenyer

    Hi Bruce, I met with LION in London on Wednesday to hand over an Alpha / Beta / Gamma so he has the tools to look for that seperately and the Optris and a paired laptop to allow non-contact overview of temperatures should that provide useful information down the line.

    He said that he wishes to conduct some more tests before preparing cores and that is his prerogative, we had a lovely evening together and he re-iterated his commitment to help make validation possible. Today he was offering to do a run enriched in some way with Chromium.

    • Bruce__H

      It most certainly is LION’s prerogative to supply, or withhold, a core. Or to provide or withhold data from his own runs. I am beginning to feel a sense of deja vu though. Hasn’t MFMP been here before with ME356 and Suhas? You establish contact and create positive relations but when the core measurements are supposed to happen things begin to collapse.

      Don’t get me wrong. I think that LION transferring his recipe to others for replication is a big thing. But I see a gap beginning to form whereby a failure to replicate LION’s results will be explained as not achieving the right replication conditions. And I see LION shying away from closing this gap by providing a pre-built core for testing.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Just because things are not easy, is not a reason to stop. Hot Fusion has been unsuccessful for, like, ever – but I applaud the continued determination to try.

        NOT having a ‘working reactor’ made possible gaining access to ash samples from me356. This, and the ash shared with us by Suhas led to ‘CAB Story’, the verification of Piantelli’s Jan 2015 claims to us – which fed into the emerging understanding of the process.

        Suhas really was going through finance issues related to his focus on this research. He has now sold his offices to a man Dr. Egely and I met whilst there on the third trip and is not in a better place doing consultancy. He did not accept the very terribl offer from the startup centre and we are in contact with Suhas now to try to find a way forward – If we can secure a successful test then there is a standing offer of large support that does not require us to be closed or directed. Obviously, the test would need to be in a location where we are not time-restricted or at the mercy of authorities. I have a planned call with him tomorrow.

        ECCO fuel has the active agents. Production of Strange radiation tracks on negatives, in-contact polymer, non-contact polymer and CCD over months is evidence enough. ECCO also produced many of the most common element transmutations observed as commented on by Tom Claytor of LANL after my presentation at Asti.

        LION works, L1 produced the best ever strange radiation track in Cu2O and L2 produced a nice track on SiO2.

        Alan Goldwaters experiment is NOT a replication, it is an analogue, but one that will allow us to drop in a core when available. One major area that is different that I discussed with Alan G before this first run, was that the power in LFH MT is either on or off, providing big step changes with a 2second minimum delay between switching. Alan Gs system is just dropping to a lower voltage. I feel that the ‘shitty’ power control, as I described it, may be important as it may be exactly what is needed to stress the diamonds – allowing them to nucleate the active agents.

        The current experiment when it has been cycled for a few days, may be a ‘null’ – could it be because of the above major power control change, or some other factor? Let’s see what happens first – Alan G is producing and streaming high quality LIVE data – it is a significant body of work to get this to this point and he has my respect.

        The other thing to note is that the process that I understand can produce extreme cooling and excess heat and these can be off-set – this will be obvious later and is likely why control is so critical to seeing an effect. Once side of this is related to the ‘glowing without extra heat’ which Hutchison, me356 and Suhas seemingly observed ( Plus Rossi claims the ability to produce a proportion of output as light and that that takes away from the heat output) – It is because of this understanding that I conclude that me356 has created both the active agents and has control of the effect.

        • Bruce__H

          Thanks for outlining the difference between how Alan S’s Model T system and Alan G’s (Friendly Robot?) system control the current through the heating coils. I didn’t know this.

          So do Alan S’s Looking for Heat replication attempts use the same control system as LION? I note that so far this Alan has not been able to replicate LION’s results either.

          • Bob Greenyer

            As of time of writing, Alan G is not even at 800ºC for the first time.

            LION used a the LFH control that is either on or off – with a minimum 2s in either state – in terms of field changes, very different to what Alan G has.

            I would expect Alan S. to have used the same control as he supplied to LION, but need to confirm – perhaps A.S. can clarify himself here.

      • Bob Greenyer

        LION did not withhold data, the whole card was handed to LFH – the data card was corrupted – it was something Alan Smith replicated and he has been working with his IT colleague to resolve the issue.

        This occurred again with LION 3 etc – which apparently sustained also, it is not a charge that can be laid easily at the LION claimants door.

        • Bruce__H

          Good news.

  • georgehants

    Morning Bob, with all the work going on, is it adding to or confirming your “O” day realisation, or has anything happened to alter your thinking?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Recent announcements, particularly by SAFIRE and Skunkworks have re-affirmed the basis behind ‘O Day’.

      A trip I made last week, the data from which will be in ‘O Day’ once I have done a number of controls, seals it.

      • georgehants

        Wonderful

      • Will O-Day be a BG solo production or will there be other people signed on to your conclusions?

        • Bob Greenyer

          It is my realisation, I have done most of the analysis work – but much of it is based on works of others.

          People will judge for themselves – it is not written in stone and I reserve the right to change my conclusions or improve them as data directs.

          • Data-driven is the way to go. You have proven to be a very aggressive dot-connector. To convince people like me it’s going to have to be about data and science and evidence and unambiguous logic.

            Your passion and your feeling about how it all comes together so beautifully are going to mean zilch to me. As does the subtle propaganda of saying who is going to have an easier time on O-Day. Red pills. Releasing info in drips to amp up interest. Whatever. I hope you understand that we have had more than enough with the games played by Rossi, BLP, me356, etc. etc. We don’t need you to play games. Play it straight! Show us the proof!

            This may sound harsh but I know you wouldn’t have it any other way.

            Will your O-Day hypothesis be testable by scientific experiment? If the answer is yes then I suggest doing that first in a very specific way before saying QED. If the answer is no then you might as well save your breath.

          • georgehants

            LENR, your repeated statement is self-obvious in any scientific work.

            It does not need repeating, Bob’s “O” day will either stand up to open-minded, un-biased, competent scrutiny or it will not, only time will tell.
            Time to move away from the ridiculous scientific method (religion) that is abused by the vast majority of laughingly called scientists.
            The only purpose of science is to investigate every possible subject and competently acquire honest Evidence by Research.
            Conformation or not will come automatically from that further Research.
            You nor any part of science know if genuine UFO’s exist and any dumb opinions or beliefs are irrelevant, only as said above, competent, open-minded,unbiased comprehensive Research of all Evidence will determine the Facts.
            Rossi is in this sad society is entitled to hide his claims for years, solely for personal gain, that will not alter the eventual outcome.
            With Bob we have so far waited a few weeks and again nothing will alter the Truth of his claims if treated fairly, unlike the incompetent sciences handling of P&F and most other important subjects, including the their comical claims that genuine UFO’s etc. are impossible, so we close our brains and hide under the table like frightened children.
            Most of science is a joke.

          • John Oman

            Hear! Hear!

          • …only as said above, competent, open-minded,unbiased comprehensive Research of all Evidence will determine the Facts.

            On this we thoroughly agree. That’s all I’m asking of BG/MFMP. My opinion, your opinion, his opinion… don’t amount to much. Data. Repeatable experiments. SCIENCE.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Hi LENR G,

            It has been tested, is being tested and will be tested again.

            My realisation may be right, wrong or somewhere in-between and I reserve the right to amend as new evidence comes to light.

            I am not playing games and I will tell the best account of my realisation on the date it is sampled.

            It is such a mammoth piece of work – and life and experiments and other work gets in the way – so I try to package parcels of information together as time and resources allow.

            This week, I am focussed on LION-AG

          • When you say it is being tested what I hope I am hearing is that you’ve isolated some unique element of your hypothesis and found an unambiguous way to test it that will exclude other interpretations.

            If all we get some ambiguous amount of excess heat and generalized transmutations then we’re still stuck on square 2.

            If you are gearing up to claim that LENR is intertwined with consciousness particles or something along those extremely radical lines (scientifically speaking) then you better have the goods.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Observe, hypothesise, test : Repeat

            Not all understanding or aspects of same start in the same place.

      • Dods

        Hello Bob has anybody tried to guess yet what the meaning of ‘O’ is in ‘O Day’ yet?
        I am going to guess it is the ‘om’ .
        “Om is the one eternal syllable of which all that exists is but the development. The past, the present, and the future are all included in this one sound, and all that exists beyond the three forms of time is also implied in it”

        Has a resonance vibe to it which fits well with some theorys of LENR.
        🙂

        • Bob Greenyer

          Om is in ‘O Day’ but it is not ‘O’

        • Jas

          Back at the end of January, Bob posted a song on the MFMP facebook page. It was around the beggining of the O day discussions. I posted up a track by a 1960’s British band called Fleur De Lys.
          The track is called Circles which was written by Pete Townsend of The Who. Think of the O as not a letter that starts a word but of a circle. Bob said I was close to the meaning of O Day but at the time I knew little of what he meant.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Very good Jas.

            Now listen to any of the “Windmills of your mind” variations (I prefer the original no-nonsense one).

            Imagine what it is telling you.

          • georgehants

            Morning Bob, are you agreeing with Bohr and many other great thinkers and the growing body of Evidence, that consciousness lies behind everything we know in our own little reality.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes

    • Rene
      • georgehants

        Sorry Rene, looks very interesting but I need a little bit of explanation.

        • Rene

          O as in torus – it has been postulated here before.

  • magicsnd1

    BobG posted some incorrect information below, which I feel compelled to clarify. Contrary to his posting,

    I built a new power system using identical DC
    power supply to the LFH system as used by LION. I also got a new PID
    controller that works by cycling on and off with a 1 second cycle time,
    duplicating the LFH/LION setup. As with all such fixed supply voltage PID systems, the power is controlled by the ratio of
    on/off time. The only
    difference is that my new PID supports automated ramping up of the
    temperature.

    To be fair, my system does have another significant difference in that I have installed sheathed thermocouple probes inpartial replacement of the mild steel bolt used by LION to plug the reactor tubes. However, I did insert 25 mm pieces of appropriate zinc-plated mild steel before the thermocouples, so the environment in the fuel chamber is identical to the LION description.

    I contend that my setup is a close replication of the LION reactor, within the limits of known details.”Replication” or “Analogue”? – you will have to decide. I will continue to add relevant details to the Live Doc, to help with this and other questions.
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zavehvGweALvdLW5h-wa9T_mpyErhsCppMXxizazc5s

    AlanG

    • Bob Greenyer

      Hi Alan,

      I am sorry, but looking at the power curve, I could not see an off – time at any point and since there was an average power I thought that the other power curve was instantaneous. Perhaps there is averaging even on the ‘Power’ curve. I will correct.

      • magicsnd1

        Yes, there is a 4-sample averaging that happens in the PA1000, so with the PID set to a 1 second clock, the “instantaneous” power does not simply jump from 0 to 380 watts as the PID cycles.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Thanks for the clarification.

    • Engineer48

      Hi AlanG,

      You are aware the LFH system supplies a variable duty cycle 15kHz signal to the heater coil. The PID controls a solid state AC switch that supplys the mains to the 36VDC supply that drives the switcher.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fc71260cad497c11aca1ae313da17934eaeece7545bae4680176d5bea84a6a5c.png

      That is assuming Alan S has not altered the design since I created the schematic, as attached, for him.

      • Bruce__H

        If this is truly a difference between the replication attempt by Alan Goldwater and the attempts of others then it may be fortuitous because it separates the effects of purely temperature changes from the effects of the same temperature changes accompanied by rapid field fluctuations in the core.

        At this point I think that the nature of the inputs to the systems of Alan Goldwater, Alan Smith, and LION need to be clearly understood.

      • Bruce__H

        Engineer48 said:
        “As the discs are Ni, they are ferromagnetic. As such the 15kHz signal will induce waves of domain alignment upon each leading edge and likewise waves of domain unalignment on each trailing edge. These H field leading edge driven domain alignment waves will create phonon waves that will travel through the Ni and cause lattice movement as he domains rotate into alignment and then again as the H field goes away”

        I agree but I am not sure how strong he effect will be with only only about 1 winding per cm along the quartz sleeve. It is a question of the strength of the H/E field versus the stiffness of the Ni lattice or the diamonds

  • magicsnd1

    The PID program is now in a hold at 800°C. After some discussion, we will execute some temperature cycling, possibly between 600°C and 900°C

  • Tad G

    Looks like Tnull has hit 800C and although its a little hard to see in this screenshot – the curves have leveled off. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f9f1448e0312e69499b3d15174ffe861752917bc69b91bbe026bacf70e3690e8.png

  • Ophelia Rump

    Good luck, strive for stability first. Try not to let it runaway. Patience and good fortune.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Probably and artefact.

  • magicsnd1

    I’ve uploaded the data for the first 50 hours as an xls file:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/17iOtxck6o0zUZ5TGKrkyKEiWbi_h9Zg2/view?usp=sharing

    • John Oman

      Just in case you don’t see any ‘active’ activity, I suggest considering the introduction of some ‘nasty’ RF before shutting down the experiment.

      • Skip

        I have been thinking of how to respond to this suggestion since I first read it. I don’t disregard your suggestion out of hand.
        There are different ways to run experiments including following a tight regime of planned tests, and throwing whatever you have at it to see if something happens. While down here assisting Alan, clearly the former is more appropriate. At home in my workspace, I would feel free to do as you suggest. However, for repeatability and proper analysis, adding anything like “nasty RF” would require full characterization (perhaps the opposite of “nasty”).
        If you have a suggestion of what source we could use (that could be fully characterized, before or after), I would promote it; time and resources permitting. Otherwise it falls into the realm of luck; possibly unrepeatable.
        Perhaps elsewhere, and at another time, a similar test could be run with, a close by electric motor (with poor commutator connections), a failing ballast or other source of spurious RF.
        Better (but not as nasty) would be an altered microwave oven, radio transmitter (CB or HAM) or signal generator setup. Any of these ideas would be as complex to integrate as the base (approximate) replication we are attempting.

        • John Oman

          Given time and money, a controlled/known RF would certainly be preferable. With time and money in short supply, my suggestion was more along the lines of a cheap/dirty ‘attempt’ to glean a bit more information before abandoning the experiment. Thanks!

  • Bob Greenyer

    Hi all,

    I have just had a statement from LION that 800500ºC switching cycle is 60mins and that interesting things start to happen normally after 3 days of doing this.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Got to hand it to Alan G and Skip, this data is tight!

    Well done guys!

    Now we have a dilemma, due to the long internal TCs replacing the Simple Bolts, we have a big radiator strapped into the core and this is cooling it below the 500ºC 800ºC target cycle temperatures (the cooler TCs are the internal TCs).

    Given that LION said this needs to cycle for 3 days typically before becoming interesting, should we compensate for the cooling effect and bump up the target PID driver temperatures so the core is closer to 500ºC 800ºC ?

    If we do do that, when should we do it, after 1 day or 3? Or ASAP?

    Opinions and views welcome.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7b6c77dc7a15cb09b4be70f35ae112d86a324db9e64ecab5a6bad2fb90aa6444.png

    • William D. Fleming

      See above.

  • georgehants

    Just to prove I have an ego, but thankfully not one that would allow others to be hurt by it.
    I have brought my comment to the top of page ha.
    ———
    georgehants Bob Greenyer • 3 hours ago
    Morning
    Bob, are you agreeing with Bohr and many other great thinkers and the
    growing body of Evidence, that consciousness lies behind everything we
    know in our own little reality.
    ——–
    “O” is the beginning of, O my god, when one realises the Truth? (possible Truth)
    ——–
    Bob Greenyer georgehants • 2 hours ago
    Yes

    • William D. Fleming
      • georgehants

        Many thanks William, yes work now being done by a few genuine scientists actually looking at the Evidence, but one must avoid the vast number, who like much of science simply dismiss good Evidence as not in-line with the religious dictates of the holy priests

        • William D. Fleming

          Humans will be humans, and scientists are also human. Only a few have the wherewithal to forge ahead into forbidden areas. It’s a fascinating process.

          • georgehants

            William, so agree, humans are strange animals, but somewhere I think we have to try and progress and that can only happen if enough people work for an overall betterment to our society’s.

          • Bob Greenyer

            To clarify – I was responding to consciousness being behind everything – not the phrase “O my god”.

          • georgehants

            Bob, slightly sad but if your realisation contains Evidence of the consciousness situation then that is far more important (to me) and in no way effects the importance of your reply.

          • Bob Greenyer

            When it comes to it, some people may say

            “Oh my god”

            Or they may say

            “That guys a nutter”

          • georgehants

            Bob, it does not matter what these sad people say or think, only the Truth matters and either the World will be destroyed before that Truth is proven, (in which case they will have gained nothing except in their distorted short term) or it will shine through no matter what elements of our society do to hide and distort for their own mis-guided human reasons.

  • magicsnd1

    Please stay on-topic folks.

    The thermal time constant is about 15 minutes. I can easily change the program to cycle with that. Do we stick to
    500800?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Hi Alan G.

      Bruce_H suggests below, “stick with the present regime for 3 days then turn all knobs up to 11 thereafter. I actually quite like this idea.”

      I think this is a good approach.

      • magicsnd1

        Do you mean to stay with 500800 but shorten the cycle time? Or just leave everything as-is? The current cycling program ends at around 22:00 utc and will have to be refreshed in either case.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Sorry – yes – cycle time to match LIONs guidance – I tried to call to get this across before posting here…

          Suggest changing then at 22:00 UTC to the new time-constant driven switch but at the current PID controlling TC temperatures for next 2-3 days as you see fit and then switch to temperatures that would make the Active Core TC cycle 500 800ºC

          • magicsnd1

            Why wait?

          • Bob Greenyer

            No reason to wait – fire when ready!

          • magicsnd1

            Done

          • Bob Greenyer

            You da man AG

            U DA MAN

    • Rene

      How long you keep cycling depends on the objective. Is that process performing some deposition necessary to create structures that assist/induce LENR? Or, does the cycling ‘burn-off’ some one-way chemical reactions that would otherwise interfere with LENR. In either case, what temperature profiles or other signals do you look for?

  • Bob Greenyer

    Hi Bruce_H

    For caution sake, I think your proposal is a good one.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I think that now the power cycling has been turned on, you can see that the power does switch to full on and full off at times, I guess a better time resolution non-integrated sample set would settle it.

    Alan G said that putting the temp test duty cycle to 2s as in Alan Smiths original set-up resulted in errors in averaging.

    We will endeavour to clarify everything in the Live Doc given time.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Square – with a Time Constant driven cycle – in our case it takes around 15mins to reach top and bottom of each 500800ºC shift – so plan in discussion ATM is to switch to this at 22:00UTC when current program ends.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Bruce_H

    We went with your plan.

  • Rene

    David, silly argument in there because it demeans volunteers. Do volunteers have a free pass to do shoddy work? Of course not. Whomever poses theory needs to go through the rigors of analysis, go through the conversation process that hone the theory, find errors, amends it, determines experiments to validate a theory. I respect Bob, his tenacity, his ability to gather evidence, and synthesis thoughtful ideas. But I do not like the Rossiesque melodrama techniques. In that regard I agree completely with what LENR G wrote. Looking forward to “O”.

    • David_Kaiser_39

      You should read my comment again.

      “You have no rights to ask for anything or to make any demands. He is not your employee.”

      This is my core statement. Nothing more, nothing less.

      • Rene

        I read your core statement and find it meritless. Nothing more, nothing less.

        • David_Kaiser_39

          OK, thank you then.

  • bfast

    I’m a bit unclear. What’s the bottom line. Is this thing LENRing or not?

    • David_Kaiser_39

      Not yet. We all hope it will.

  • David_Kaiser_39

    I understand what you mean. This man went to places only a few can go. And even less would understand. But I have no right to talk about Bob – I hope he forgives me; it’s not my job to do that. I will no further comment on this topic. Thank you.

  • Jouni Tuomela

    Sorry, do you already have some High Voltage setup in the experiment?

    • Bob Greenyer

      No.

  • Bob Greenyer
    • causal observer

      Sweet. Thanks Bob.

    • LION

      Hi AlanG,
      Lovely Lab, great thorough technique, innovative and careful preparation. I learnt a lot too. I am very impressed, high spec monitoring very professional. WE will get there, all the best.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Well, so far, the thermodynamics are reliable and repeatable.

    Really good data acquisition.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1df087d409eaac1870eba71c8ee20b97ec6f4455b018f36e192ed447d96fe64a.png

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION – Request for expertise on dissolving metals for analysis

    https://youtu.be/NvXD43Swse8

    • NT

      How about the “Universal Solvent’, ultra pure H2O heated to just under a boil?

    • Andreas Moraitis

      If HCl does not work, one would typically use Aqua Regia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_regia ). Be careful with that stuff (see, for example, https://ehs.umass.edu/sites/default/files/Aqua%20regia%20Handling%20and%20Disposal%20Procedures.pdf ). Better ask a skilled person to do it for you.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Or try HNO3 first. It may produce as well nasty fumes, though.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Thanks Andreas, I will ensure I have extraction. I may ask CEITEC to help with the preparation on this.

          There is one other approach – to use the ion beam SEM with WDS and peal away layers of the affected wire.

  • magicsnd1

    Regarding the possible effect of the heater coil’s magnetic field: based on the coil turn spacing and current, the calculated field in the mild steel rod is around 2k gauss at room temperature. However, the Curie temperature of the steel is around 5-600°C, so at operating temperature it is essentially non-magnetic and the field strength is just 20 gauss (2 mT), pretty trivial.

    Having said that, cycling the reactor above and below the steel Curie temp would result in a varying magnetic field in the core, and this might be a useful path to explore.

    Regarding the average power calculation algorithm which I described previously in some detail, I will make the Python source code available if someone cares to examine it to suggest improvements for the next round.

    AlanG

    • Alain Samoun

      Alan: Some questions:
      – Are the steel rod and washers magnetic? (martensite steel?)
      – I assume that the silver + Cu wire are use as a plug (not heated) by the outer copper wrap?
      – How did you manage to put the diamond dots inside a Ni wire and what is the diameter of this wire? Was the Ni wire treated in D2O like the diamond dots?
      Thanks and good luck with the experiment!

      • magicsnd1

        The section of mild steel rod is definitely magnetic. There are no washers used in the reactor.

        The silver leaf and copper wire over wrap are not for sealing, they are just for replication of LION’s reactor per his description. We don’t know his thinking as to why they are there, but in replication we try to match all the known conditions and materials as closely as possible.

        The Ni-diamond dots are inserted between each coil of a tiny spring wound from Ni 200 wire. That wire was not treated, just wound on a 2 mm mandrel before inserting the discs.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Alan G,

          Alan S told me the Lion 2 reactor and it’s 25 discs did not use a stacking coil and were just dropped into the fuel tube open end, then shaken a bit to get max packing density.

          The bolt was then inserted into the open end of the fuel tube to cause slight compression of the 25 patallel stacked fuel discs and then glued in place.

          LION if this info is not correct, please correct it.

          • Bob Greenyer

            E48 – this is correct – there was some cross-talk misunderstanding early on. The errata has been noted and will be corrected in next run.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Bob, is copper vs nickel in the core a significant difference from your point of view?
            Also, the structural changes regarding the “bolt” being replaced by the thermocouple….I mean, the LION bolthead was exposed to ambient external environment and connected electrically to the core. Could the bolt head be important in gathering “static” and providing this path for blowing the smoke rings in the core?
            Also, the lack of carbon from burning off the magnet wire insulation changes the core environment, do you think it could be significant?
            I really enjoyed your earlier post showing the April 24, 2016 presentation. Wonderful job you are doing and you did mention the importance of carbon.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Hi Stephen,

            As has been clarified with LION, there was no magnet wire in the core in L1 and L2 – this was a planned ‘improvement’ by LION.

            There is Carbon in the core from the diamonds of course – and it is important. Nickel is already there.

            We really don’t know if hard electrical connection to the core and the Copper coil is important, however the LION author may wish to shed light on his subsequent testing and how that impacts the understanding of this aspect.

            Alan Goldwater, with the aid of Skip are doing a wonderful job of helping everyone understand time constants of these systems for one with the quality data that is being generated. I suspect that in LION-AG-02, the shorter TC and lack of toast rack will present a far closer thermodynamic model to L1 and L2.

          • Stephen Taylor

            I thought the planned improvement was incorporating the discs in the copper coil, in the meantime, my presumption was that the D2O wetted and previously treated diapads were more or less “wadded up” with the copper magnet wire and dropped into the core to be pressed upon by the bolt. Do hope communication with LION has resolved all this. It’s difficult and so important to nail down whatever variables eventually prove to be important. Thanks for your time, I’m reluctant to impose as your time is precious. Regards.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Clarification questions are important to answer.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Alan Goldwater and Skip are so critically important to this endeavor. I so hope they will not become discouraged by the “chatter in the background” or the difficulty of finding the elusive answers. Same for yourself. Support, as I am modestly able to provide it is on the way.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Dear Stephen, Thankyou so much.

            Yes Alan and Skip are very important to LENR – Alan Goldwater especially has worked very hard to bring the hardware and software together on this on. This is a replication attempt of a community claim – that in itself is a big development.

          • Skip

            No worries, Stephen. Any lab rat day is a good day
            😉

          • Stephen Taylor

            Well, if there was in fact no magnet wire in the core of L1 and L2, that is very important information. I do hope it is fact certain.

            Carbon from diamonds vs from polymer insulation in the reactor atmosphere would present differently to incoming “static charge” (vacuum type static charge per Shoulders, he said, to paraphrase, “if you shuffle your feet across the carpet and then touch the door handle you get shocked, look closer where the shock meets the door handle and see what has happened”. This is from the visit of Ken Shoulders with John Hutchison you referenced on youtube.) EVO’s, electron smoke rings, maybe smoke rings of the vacuum and within the vacuum (nod to MusicalHemispheres) are going round, self organizing in my empty head.

            Anyway, it looks closer and closer to a replication as I learn more. It’s just so important to know all the specific details until we learn what is important and what is distraction.

          • Bob Greenyer

            “maybe smoke rings of the vacuum and within the vacuum”

            Not only. There are quanta involved that we already have specific names for.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Yes, EVO’s. Apparently they come in various sizes thus the plural form of quantum and who knows what a single bit would be. Kenneth Shoulders mentioned 6.02 X 1OE23. I’ll go back to reading now…..

          • Bob Greenyer

            Solid density.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Solid density “matter as we know it” might refer to something within the EVO and carried along by it. “It” might be an ion, atom or molecule or combination of these reorganizing within the mass screened confines of the EVO???

          • Bob Greenyer

            Density is amount of mass in a given volume – but ask yourself, do we know it is evenly distributed?

            What is mass relationship to matter?

            Is ‘matter highly localised in a given volume’ leading to a ‘solid density’ a more accurate description?

          • Stephen Taylor

            If we include energy as a form of mass maybe the distribution is more evenly distributed than it appears in our “solid” world ( not solid at all, of course). The energy density of the vacuum is high so it’s solid density might be seen as highly dense. An EVO, perhaps including within it some “particle or particles” will have a solid density that could be variable at different scales down to and beyond the Planck length. It’s about hopeless to me right now…..

            Solid density of matter as opposed to mass of matter, hmmm….

          • Bob Greenyer

            Well – sand and iron ore can make much of a steel and glass building.

            Shoulders measured what came out of EVOs and their scale from images and witness marks, but how are those things distributed before the structure collapses?

          • artefact

            I’m also reading all the papers from a mirror of Shoulders old page in chronical order at the moment.

          • Stephen Taylor

            artefact, I’m unable to find very much of his work since his website is down. Can you please tell me where you are finding it?

          • artefact

            For example: http://www.keelynet.com/shoulders/pdfs.html
            I’m sure there is more out there.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            Replication means NOT CHANGING ANYTHING.

            Why?

            Because there are way too many unknowns. These early stage replications need to be photo copier like replications. NO CHANGES to what Lion is doing.

            ANY change risks a null result as what was changed may have been needed.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I agree.

            The toaster rack was a miss-understanding based on what is now understood to be the ambitions of the claimant.

            Alan Goldwater did start with the original TC type used, he found them to be unreliable. He also found that position of thermocouples made a big difference to the temperatures determined. After some hard work, it was agreed to purchase high specification sealed thermocouples to gain deep understanding of the system and quality data.

            At the end of these test cycles we will have a well characterised system to test a LION supplied core – if something interesting happens before then, that would be good to.

  • Bob Greenyer
    • Bob Matulis

      Bob, when do you anticipate getting results that indicate excess energy (energy beyond what could be explained by chemical reaction)?

      • Bob Greenyer

        This is the first time that we have attempted a LION protocol. Other than LION saying that it takes 3+ days of 500800ºC cycling to see things get interesting we also have the fact that Suhas Ralkar said that his fuel did not become active even slightly, until after around 120hours of ultrasonic processing – so first approach is to be patient.

        The actual core temperatures here are currently cooled because of the heat-sink effect of the long metal thermowells. The “_front” TCs are actually the core temperatures with the Tactive_front running between 439714ºC which might be critical. In this run, at some point, if we see nothing interesting, we will adjust the input temperature to account for the losses from the core – there is one proviso – Alan G reported last night that the PSU is producing the characteristic smell of an over-heating resistor, so it may fail even before that, he has a spare to swap in and new ones take just 2-3 days to deliver. Alan has, based on data so far, already got on order two shorter thermowells to alleviate this problem in LION-AG 02.

        Our history shows that first attempts don’t have a good record – with Celani, we tried to ‘improve’ the reactor based on what Celani wanted to do, replace the borosilicate glass with quartz – but it did not work, it did when we went back to borosilicate and that may be because borosilicate has both Boron and Lithium in it.

        In Rossi patent fuel replications, it took Alan Goldwater until *GlowStick* 5.3 to see the first really interesting data.

        The LION author definitely created LENR back to back between LION 1 and 2, whilst these were sequential as far as we are concerned, L1 was, afaik an experiment that came after a lot of prior experimentation. The reason we know it created the conditions for LENR, is that strange radiation tracks were observed in both experiments – L1 (in glassy-phase Cu2O) and L2 (in Quartz).

  • Bob Greenyer

    Very good MH…

    Shoulders started calling it

    EVs
    What did that mean?

    Then he evolved to

    Charge Clusters
    What does that mean?

    Then he evolved to
    EVOs

    What does that mean?

  • Bob Greenyer

    Except that 1H or 2H in the Rydberg state expresses 620x level of magnetism than ordinary mono-atomic hydrogen isotopes according to the published research of Dr. Stoyan Sarg and presented in my Copenhagen presentation (from 15m56s)

    One possible mechanism is that magnetism would align the Rydberg state hydrogen which is a good thing if you wanted to form Rydberg clusters of 1H or 2H.

    https://youtu.be/lr7LtY3LmhQ?t=15m56s

    • LION

      BRILLIANT presentation BOB.

  • Engineer48

    Hi Bruce,

    The Curie point is the temperature above which a permanent magnet domain alignment can’t occur.

    However domain alignment still occurs.

    Some magnets are created by heated above their Curie point, H field applied to align domains and then cooled to lock in the domain alignment.

    As Ni is not capable of being a PM, discussion of it’s Curie point is not relevant.

    • magicsnd1

      The magnetic behavior of ferrous alloys is complex, as I’m sure you know. However it has also been studied in great detail for hundreds of years. Here is one image from a good article, showing what I think is pertinent to the LION reactor core:
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3ec7ced237bc2b9c04d19e76f9fa778d2bbbf245ce54fe78674da9c8233d04e9.jpg

      • Engineer48

        Hi Alan G,

        Sure there is a relationship between temp and permeability in ferromagnetic material as your graphic shows.

        My 1st point was about operating above the Curie temp and how it stops a PM (permanent magnet) being a PM as the physical barriers that normally hold the domains aligned are removed. However Ni is not capable of being a PM.

        2nd point was the 15kHz square wave drive applied to the heater coil in the Lion and Alan S setups should cause some Ni domain alignment, Brouch wall movement and phonon wave propogation through out the Ni lattice no matter what the temp.

        Applying Dc, as you do, should not cause such activity, so there is a difference between your setup and that of Lion and Alan S.

        3rd point was I don’t believe, as per discussion with Alan S that Lion used a coil to hold & space the Lion 1 nor Lion 2 discs.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I am interested in comments on R Hellenbrand’s view on LF, cross posted here for brevity:

          “Would like to react on the waveforms and what could happen.

          In the lookingforheat Model T test kit (http://www.lookingforheat.com/…enr-test-kit-mk1-model-t/ ) the current through the heater coil is adjusted by a PWM power stage.

          This type of power stage makes a lot of Electromagnetic noise (harmonics).

          The temperature is controlled by a PID controller, and it will switch the PSU mains off if the temperature is reached.

          The PSU voltage will not drop directly, caused by the discharging time of the PSU capacitors.

          If the voltage drops, the current through the heater (and magnetic field in the reactor) will also drop.

          The PWM will still work during the PSU discharge time (maybe 2-3 second) and will still produce more or less the same harmonics.

          Deuterium can be activated by the Larmor frequency, for deuterium this is just 6.54 MHz/T.

          I think it is possible that a harmonic of the PWM in a dropping magnetic field can hit the deuterium Lamor frequency.

          This would also explain why you must cycle the heather temperature to wakeup the reaction.

          Ron”

        • magicsnd1

          As I have stated several times, here and elsewhere, I was told by Alan Smith that LION’s reactor uses DC power, not SCR-chopped. Based on that advice, I replicated the LFH DC power system for my experiment.

          Further on this, I don’t recall Alan Smith saying he was using a 15 kHz square wave power source in his LION replication, merely that he had been experimenting with it at LFH. I tried this approach (using an audio power amp) in the Glowstick series of experiments several years ago. I used a variety of waveforms, including poly wave chirps and square waves up to 25 kHz, at power up to 800 watts RMS. I found no primary acoustic resonance modes in the cell structure or the heater coil. I did measure the inductive low-pass of the coil itself, with -3 dB at around 38 kHz.

          I still have the 2 kW class D audio amplifier, and could easily use it to power (or melt) the LION heater coil. I would want to see a compelling argument before making such a departure from the known LION protocol though.

  • georgehants

    Morning Bob, understanding that all the technical issues are of great importance, some of us have far more interest in the deeper and World changing aspects of your realisation. (hopefully for the better)
    Any chance of some small clues about what brought the consciousness etc. issue into your “O” day?

    • Bob Greenyer

      RV
      Puthoff
      QM
      Mind as TX//RX
      Thorsten Ludwig electron control
      EVOs

      • georgehants

        Fully familiar with the “Puthoff” “electron control” etc. you have asked for the meaning of “RV, EVO’s” etc. below and I don’t know what they are.
        Easy to believe from the current Evidence that the mind is a TX/RX and controls much more, the usual Rebel real scientists are working hard on the subject, but what have you observed that seems to convince you of a repeatable understanding that the mind is the source of these phenomenon?.

        • Bob Greenyer

          What is the body?

          • georgehants

            In establishment science including the mind and brain, nothing but a material steam engine.
            For genuine scientists perhaps much more, it is this Evidence that I am asking about as we do not know.

          • Bob Greenyer

            “World changing”

            or will it be, resetting?

          • georgehants

            Dear George, wait for “O” day, ha.
            Best

        • Brent Buckner

          FWIW, I think folks around here use EVO for Ken Shoulders’ notion of “Exotic Vacuum Objects”.

          • georgehants

            Brent, many thanks, interesting but until the whole picture falls into place these individual phenomenon are to me just teasers, each an amazing discovery if confirmed, but I have waited 50 years for the possible move of science away from dictated materialistic preaching to advanced recognition of the mass of Evidence pointing to something more.

  • Bob Greenyer

    The quanta of the active agent

  • Ged

    Very exciting seeing a long time commentator’s design being tested! Even better there are already strange radiation related results. How are you feeling watching your baby get put through the paces, LION?

    • LION

      Hi GED,
      very happy.

  • Engineer48

    Hi Bruce,

    Sure the permeability of the Ni discs will decline as their temp increases.

    However the Curie temp for Ni will not cause the dramatic effect of loss of B field that occurs when a PM is heated above it’s Curie temp.

    While Ni is used in combination with other atoms to make magnets, I don’t believe pure Ni can be magnetised to any significant extent.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Yes Bruce, and that might be important – experiments will show this.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Are the temp traces on plotly getting slightly interesting? For instance, between time 14:45 and 18:30 today there is a crossover of Tnull and Tactive. At the same time Tnull front is losing some of its advantage over Tactive front. If these trends become more pronounced it could be evidence of some active process beginning to be seen in the data.
    My plotly feed is acting up on my tablet so perhaps I need to wait until I can get on the laptop to confirm what seems evident if small change in system behavior.

  • Bob Greenyer

    An analysis of the LION 1 bolt revealed that it contained 0.5% Mn by weight, over 19 times less than observed in the LION 2 flake.

    More testing needed to rule out concentration as discussed previously.

    https://youtu.be/Sjk6BsH9cho

    • Engineer48

      Hi Bob,

      Have you cracked into the Lion 1 core?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Not yet – I want to leave intact as long as possible in case I can get an even better set of images of the strange radiation track and to look for others on the outside Cu2O

        • LION

          You have my full support on this BOB, you must be free to proceed at your own pace. I am sure there must be many more tracks to discover and Helium to. If I win the lottery you will have as much funding as you need too. All the best.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thanks. Good luck on the lottery!

  • Bob Greenyer

    I don’t know if the PSU has failed – but the input power is off and cell is cooling – I have been trying to reach the team for past 30-40 mins.

    • artefact

      Tactive: 3277 C … nice glitch 🙂

      • Bob Greenyer

        Hmm – I don’t know if the guys are at lunch and there was a failure or what, will report as soon as known. Data is still flowing though.

  • magicsnd1

    For those still following the experiment, the programmed 50-hour temperature cycling ended with no apparent change in the reactor balance. I am re-booting the system because the plotly stream would not initialize correctly. I’ve programmed a fewhours of temperature cycling between 600 and 900°C, which will correspond to a bit over 500-800 in the cores. I’ve also started an automated 10-minute cycling of the gamma spectrometer, in case anything of interest happens at the elevated temperatures.

    AlanG

    • Stephen Taylor

      The Tactive spike at 21:27 was a ” glitch”? No corresponding increase in Tactive front. Now plotly doesn’t show the Tactive trace. It’s pretty dodgy on my tablet anyway….
      I’m sure you guys will let us know if anything interesting is happening. Good luck on the “reset”. Hope you are able to carry on with this core.

    • Anon2012_2014

      Good work so far AlanG. Thank you.

      Good luck to us in getting a LION excess energy event.

    • Karl Venter

      Thank you for your wonderful dedication

    • Ged

      Thank you for all your work and updates! We are all following you, eagerly too, don’t worry :).

  • Stephen Taylor

    Just scroll down about 15 comments and look for the Bob Greenyer post “for those that missed the strange radiation tracks”, it’s well worth the time. There are many other links in this thread that are valuable to understanding what is being investigated here. Take your time working through them. It’s all a bit much to absorb, at least for me.

  • LCD

    Keep up the good work

  • Stephen Taylor

    Thanks, Musical Hemispheres for the links. Ken Shoulders work used to be on his website but is gone from there. I’ll check out the links you’ve provided here. If you know more about other sources for his work I’ll be grateful for any direction you can provide. This was a very interesting and thoughtful post. Perhaps Bob will weigh in.

  • Bob Greenyer

    When I was with LION last week, I specifically asked him what he meant by self-sustain.

    He said that the LFH controller+PSU combination is on or off with a 2s sample of temp compared to target temp. When it is off, in his case, an LED turns on and in this state he measures a low RMS power across the input AC to the power supply. Could this be the 6W parasitic load that Alan Goldwater identified and suggested it might be due to the PSUs fan. It is in this state that L2 was apparently at very high temperatures (around 1000ºC) for 2.5 days.

    LION said that his suspicion was that the was some kind of field still present in this state, one might think in the coil. He has the MFMP electric field detector, so we may get and some detail on that in time. He says his subsequent testing supports this.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Two ‘Seed’ LION 2 diapad ash discs, ready to send to Alan Smith and Alan Goldwater for use in their experiments.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/015617e69cb8215a1bf322fa3059cb5564ae20c2d1a86aa522e3c6d6bdf2a24c.jpg

    • artefact

      Thats good! Will be interesting.

  • Alain Samoun

    Maybe a coincidence but at time 42507, what is usually though as a glitch, the TC jump suddenly to 3277 – Not a temperature measurement of course – But in two of my experiments with Ni wire I had the same “glitch” at about the same temperature when the system was cooling….
    Here one set of data showing it: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eJho8SgnvGrvUE0LDfm_1v4T7obtIgx7OJq6u5r021E/edit#gid=0

    • artefact

      Some kind of electric effect fooling the sensor? From the fuel?

    • Axil Axil

      Bremsstrahlung not only occurs when the LENR reaction begins but also when it ends. You may be seeing Bremsstrahlung when the LENR reaction is ending. Heat is not always generated by the LENR reaction. SO heat production is a bad indication to judge if LENR is active or not.

      • Alain Samoun

        Thanks,but I though that bremsstrahlung effect was a photon radiation? I was thinking more of a possible EVO detected by the TC?

        • Axil Axil

          bremsstrahlung marks the onset of superconductivity where the meissner effect forces out all EMF from the superconductor. The electrons reach the speed of light and interact with matter in the neighborhood to produce bremsstrahlung. When the LRNR reactor ends, the meissner effect terminates and the electrons fall into the superconductor. Here again, the The electrons reach the speed of light and interact with matter in the neighborhood during their in-fall into the superconductor to once again produce bremsstrahlung.

          Heat is produced by hawking radiation coming from this superconductor (Bose condensate). The amount of pumping of heat into the Bose condensate produces heat coming out of the condensate. When the heat pumping is weak, heat output may not be detectable, but the ionizing radiation and sub atomic particles produced by the condensate will be.

          If you cover your experiment with a thick layer of lead, you will see radiation increase due to muon catalyzed fission of lead. The thicker the lead the more fission that will occur.

        • Axil Axil

          https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2017/02/17/alien-particles-from-outer-space-are-wreaking-low-grade-havoc-on-personal-electronic-devices/

          When cosmic rays traveling at fractions of the speed of light strike the Earth’s atmosphere they create cascades of secondary particles including energetic neutrons, muons, pions and alpha particles. Millions of these particles strike your body each second. Despite their numbers, this subatomic torrent is imperceptible and has no known harmful effects on living organisms. However, a fraction of these particles carry enough energy to interfere with the operation of microelectronic circuitry. When they interact with integrated circuits, they may alter individual bits of data stored in memory. This is called a single-event upset or SEU.

          https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168900212010455

          The electronics used in the data readout and triggering system for the Compact Muon Solenoid (CMS) experiment at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) particle accelerator at CERN are exposed to high radiation levels. This radiation can cause permanent damage to the electronic circuitry, as well as temporary effects such as data corruption induced by Single Event Upsets.

          • Alain Samoun

            Thanks again Axil,the reason of my post was about some similarities of the even in Alan’s experiment and my tests:
            Some similar ingredients and thermal treatment,about the same temperature the even happens and at the cooling time. Of course SEU or artefacts still possible.

  • Stephen

    Curious what’s happening in the plot now. Is the heating starting again?

  • magicsnd1

    I’ve sorted out the data problems and started Phase 2 of the power cycling. The program is a 1-hour ramp up to 600°C, followed by 15 minute cycling between 600 and 900°C.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I think that LION would be best placed to answer that when he next drops in.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Perhaps LION can answer if he is using the PWM unit.

  • Engineer48

    Hi Bruce,

    In the reactors used in the 1 year test, Rossi samples the back emf generated in the heater coil by the reaction during the time the heater coil is not energised.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Yes, I’ll go back and watch this again now with the highlights you have provided. In the “smoke rings” now “EVO’S” neutrons and protons are playing too. These are the positively charged ions that Shoulders seems to indicate are routinely inclusions within the electron cluster chains resembling smoke rings. Inside of this EVO the reorganization of the electron nucleon cluster occurs.

    Via Adamenko these included +ions are reorganized as a result of “the strong compression of the active region” (I’m lost here)

    Today I downloaded tons of Kenneth Shoulders information as you know from

    http://www.keelynet.com/shoulders/pdfs.html

    I do hope that link works for anyone following this because it is a treasure trove.

    So much to study here and I do appreciate all help in trying to make sense of it. Much work to enjoy. Potentially very important.

  • Stephen Taylor

    So, as to the first part about density, I’m crippled by my working life partly depending on the accurate measurement of same. To me, just do the sums and averages. Define the parameters and work it out. It only gets complicated when mass is fuzzy via energy equivalence. As far as weight per unit volume not giving the correct answer because of inconsistencies within the defined volume…..define the volume and the included mass and do the arithmetic no worries about granularity unless your instrument gets focused on some non-representative sample. I guess I’m missing the point.

    I get where Bob was talking about reorganizing matter and the efficiency being related to the density inclusion within the cluster. The proposed/observed reaction paths were striking. I really need to go back now and review the links you generously provided. It’s great to talk with you and hope you can bear my slow uptake!

  • Alan Smith

    LENR-Forum is down for me (saturday morning UK time) but I did post some data there last night on a phenomenon we noticed when cycling a ‘not really LION’ cell which contained baked and electrolytically loaded diapads plus Lithium Deuterixide (LiOD) and silver deuteroxide (AgOD), the latter being the result of the unexpected (by us) breakdown of the silver anode in D2O while electrolysing the diapads in an improvised cell..

    When looking at the data we removed all instances of counts from the Netto Geiger below 50cpm rolling average, which is around double the normal background. Unfortunately I don’t have the full data set here but the radiation bursts coincide very closely with that part of the cooling cycle between 400 and 300C,over quite a few cycles.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Alan S,

      Please be careful and remember Focardi’s radiation while loading results:

      http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/FocardiSevidenceof.pdf

      • Bob Greenyer

        The second paper on Neutrons was the one we revealed for the first time in ‘CAB Story’ was due to the presence of 50V in the choice of stainless in the reactor.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Does the reactor temperature affect the temperature of the counter? If so, one might take this effect into consideration:

      https://archive.org/stream/temperatureeffec10222curt/temperatureeffec10222curt_djvu.txt

      • Alan Smith

        We have 3 geigers for calibration and comparison purposes. a by the ‘hot’ test reactor, one equidistant from the hot ‘control’ reactor, and one far away the other side of the island bench. The geigers near the reactors don’t actually get very warm, but is is our estimate that the slight rise in temperature is probably worh (at a generous maximum) 10CPM, but we discount the first 50CPM in all our data anyway. Normal lab background is being checked over the weekend, but we have so far determined it to be around 20-25 CPM.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks for the update Alan.

    • Rene

      Did you verify there wasn’t some RFI spike that might have influenced the Geiger counter? I’m postulating thermo-Cooling driven RF burst; doesn’t have to be much if the tube is unshielded from RF.

      • Alan Smith

        The Netto Geigers we are using are almost totally indifferent to RFI, but even if they were not, when the system is cooling, there is no power in the heater coils, the PID isn’t cycling, everything is pretty quiet. So way less RFI than when the system is heating up.

      • Alan Smith

        Oh yes.

  • LION

    Hi Bruce H
    I think everyone since Martin and Stan have been doing the same, and for myself I am cetain that Andrea does. The best obviously is from a successful experiment, but breeding any way can lead to that. Run fuel is changed and sensitised fuel, why would any experimentalist throw that away.
    If that is what people have been doing then it is hardly supprising to me they struggle to get beyond stage one.
    Common sense says this is precious material.

    Experimental work takes great patience, perserverance and fortitude, ANDREA embodies these qualities.
    If people are after instant gratification best reach for the cookie Jar.

    However having got to stage two all sorts of possibilities emerge. I find my direction is becoming ever clearer and will continue to share as things progress.

    I like BOB believe in the SCIENTIFIC process ( in its pure form ) which is some what different as how it is often presently practiced, and using the wonderful tools of modern science to probe and reveal true facts, which is precisely what BOB does all the time.

    No one who is engaged in honest research should be afraid of this. LION 1 and 2 could of ended up blowing Raspberries, I was sure because of what I had witnessed that it would not be so, but unless you submit to independent testing, how are you to know.

    I have full TRUST in BOB’s INDEPENDENCE and INTEGRITY, and so will continue to share and help as I have recently supplying wire, emulsions etc.

    I am VERY HAPPY -TRANSMUTATION and Particle tracks.

    So if I get run over by one of those quiet hybrid electric LONDON Buses I will have by shareing have added a little extra to the Data base of LENR. I can live with that.
    I however am sure I can do much more.
    I really do believe that 2018 will change everything fo LENR and I intend to do what I can do to facilitate that.
    All the best.

    • sam

      Thanks Lion.
      We needed a comment
      like that to brighten up
      the LENR World.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Lion,

      The US Navy scientists at SPAWAR achieved:

      Simple & low cost build
      Instant ON
      Almost 100% reliability
      Thermal runaways
      Excess heat
      Energetic radiation
      Neutrons
      Imaged short life hot spots
      Cratering
      Transmutations
      Peer reviewed papers
      Multiple party replication

      Yet nothing changed.

  • magicsnd1

    The radiation measurements for my ongoing experiment can be seen at;

    https://plot.ly/~QuantumHeat/32/lion-ag-neutron-geiger-and-gamma-counters/​

    Nothing in that plot has caught my eye, but perhaps analysis of the numeric
    data will find something. The file (up to 12 April 21:30) is available at :

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_hViPZmvQjE_rE-E35BDtrmtjWNY0yNa​

    Cycling between 600 and 900°C will continue through today.

    AlanG​​

  • Jouni Tuomela
  • LION

    Bruce H,
    the answer to your question is NO.
    As an experimentalist I am engaged in two paths.
    one I can share with others safely.
    one I believe will be capable of transforming a successful experiment into a devise capable of doing real work, but may initially be a more dangerous path.
    The path of breeding fuel can only be measured by energy release during an experiment, so LION 2 revealed an upper safe limit on my ordinary fuel. Necessarily an experiment using bred fuel must contain less than this. How much I have yet to discover, and on the number of breeding cycles prior to being used.
    This is what experimentalists do, it take patience. the end product of which is some useful knowledge.
    The LENR community has been on a learning curve since 1989, we are all still learning, certainly I am.
    Pruduct and engineering presently = ANDREA
    But I too have my dreams.
    History will tell the final story of how the cookie crumbled. Presently I think no one can say they really know for sure. You always have to be on the lookout for those who appear out of left field, GE perhaps?
    All the best.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Lion,

      Can you explain the melted blob that was found inside the Lion 2 fuel tube?

      Is it melted Ni discs?

      If not what else can it be?

      Have you observed other melted blobs inside the fuel tube?

      If so have you done SEM/EDx analysis?

      Can you explain why Bob has not yet done SEM/EDx analysis of this blob?

      Surly if there are transmutations that occurred they would be in the blob?

  • Skip

    It seemed a bit lonely, yet serene, to walk into the lab this morning, and not hear the whining of the fans, nor the smell of something burning in the power supply. We pulled the plug last night, and today we ride…

    • artefact

      I thought I had computer problems when the plot was not updating.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Good for you and good work. Excellent data.

  • magicsnd1

    Phase 2 (54 hours high-temperature cycling) of the LION-AG experiment ended at ~05:00 UTC on15 April. The data files for this phase are available at
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1X7Mm1HDkcG7Hj795TIRY7uGW10YIXfco for the temp/power
    and
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1q5uhRIr8ebqsm59VCfrO2C2lU24gOHsH for the radiation counts.

    No excess heat or radiation above background were seen.

    AlanG

    • Bruce__H

      Thanks to you and your team for an interesting week!

    • Alain Samoun

      The recording seems to stop at about 284 deg. C. Did you continue to recording the cooling temperature to ambient?
      Thanks Alan to you and all people associated to this experiment.

      • magicsnd1

        We left the lab a bit early because the stench from the power supply was too unpleasant. The supply never failed, but something in there was emitting phenol vapors, potentially hazardous. If you ever smelled an overheated pc board, you would recognize this odor.

        AlanG

        • Anon2012_2014

          You need an exhaust fan on your lab until you can trace the failing component. PITA.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Alan is very cautious and does not like to leave things unattended in his experimental setting – which is prudent give what we have seen from L2.

    • Anon2012_2014

      “does not like to leave things unattended in his experimental setting – which is prudent ”

      Especially because the overheated component could catch fire. Likely a transformer or something from a shorted capacitor causing the transformer to overheat. Stuff wears out. A fuse/circuit breaker may or may not save it.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Exactly.

      • Skip

        Yup. It’s all fuse protected and a very local fire wouldn’t hurt much. My concern (as an ex fireman) is sparks. Quite the fuel load available. I hope to complete a smoke detection system before I leave. No doubt Alan will dismantle the power supply before re-using…

        • Anon2012_2014

          I wouldn’t leave it plugged in unattended until it is repaired. The fire in the unit could conceivably spread to something else.

  • Alan Smith

    Thank you Alan. Next week we will (probably) take another look.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    One option that might save time: LION could invite Alan S or the MFMP to inspect his setup and to take independent measurements of all parameters of interest.

  • Bob Greenyer

    LION-AG 01 (nickel toaster rack supported diapads, LION protocol cookie preparation)
    In terms of data quality yes. No discernable excess heat or radiation in

    LION-AS 02 (electrolytically loaded Diapad coockies in Lithium Deuteride)
    No discernable excess, but some potential increases in ionising radiation during cool-down cycles

    2 LION2 reactor ash diapad cookie ‘seeds’ have been sent to both AG and AS for future attempts, but will probably miss the next cycle in each case.

  • Engineer48

    Hi Bruce,

    Many groups replicated the results.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/60f53be006140a1a48a8261100b1ed3c1e0cd576139acabd76f59296dd525cb8.png

    There were 21 peer reviewed papers published:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5e1a190019b29c5799e35d9f8466096412cda43821f23b750c113e8c979197a3.png

    The US Navy never released a reason for the close down. Bob G did talk with Larry F about the reason, which had nothing to do with lack of replication.

    Maybe Bob can add what he was told?

  • Bob Greenyer
    • Anon2012_2014

      Looks like ~50 extra He3 neutron counts over about 4 hours, but then it did not repeat.

      I don’t know the setup for the neutron detector, but I would assume that it is sufficiently far enough away from the unit not to be effected by thermal (heat) radiation during the power upswings.

      If this experiment can be repeated again and you get the same, it looks like the magnitude of the signal is statistically significant as the probability of only getting extra counts during the heat phase for about 8 or so heat cycles in a row is low. I have to say, that although this signal is small, it is “weird” at the least.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Good spot Anin2012_2014, will have to keep an eye out in future runs

        • Anon2012_2014

          It is good enough to prove conclusively for our LENR community the excess radiation effect. Of course we need significant excess heat to make a useful device, but it might even be good enough for the traditional academic community to do a bit of lab research to revise their models to include LENR effects. True it might even be a muon capture effect or lensing effect when the magnetic field is generated by the heater coil. It is interesting. If we can reproduce at will we can redesign to increase the S/N ratio through trial and error.

          • Bob Greenyer

            LION has been doing these experiments for a long time now – base on work he did decades ago with new insights coming from recent years of LENR findings.

            We are just getting up to speed – I am preparing more material, this experiment is beautiful and I hope we can master it.

          • Alain Samoun

            Bob: Can we have access to the time/temperature recording of Lion 1 and 2?

          • Bob Greenyer

            If that was possible, LION would have already done it – sadly the data acquisition/SDCard combination failed to maintain a correlated recording of the experiments.

          • Anon2012_2014

            You’re doing good work Bob and should feel good about your contribution to science and society. Thank you.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thanks. My guilt right now is that I have about 10-15 presentations in the works and so much insight to share – and this is in addition to ‘O Day’ (and because / related to it – it is such a mammoth task. Then life gets in the way.

            More than anything, I want others to know the inner peace and great positivity that this understanding brings.

  • Bob Greenyer

    This is good intuition… but not sure this one got going!

  • Bob Greenyer

    When I have more time. Interim presentations will be made and published.

    • So, am I understanding this right? You seem to, pretty much, know what you need to know. At this point, it is just a matter of getting it all together and presenting it to the public. Am I correct?

      • Bob Greenyer

        I have got a LOT together. But there are many aspects that tie into it that I have prepared part presentations for. I may release some of these things simultaneously (if they are complete) or even before.

        Most of the main presentation slides are done, but I have some complex animations to make to aid ease of understanding, then I need to present through the slides and edit.

        What I might do next week is test the package drop approach first.

        • Animations are cool. I recently read an opinion piece that said that scientists should use more animations in papers.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Well – my first animation job was using Lightwave on an Amiga 1000, 24 years ago – it was of a virus infecting a cell and it was the first animation on the Universities intranet – few years later, people in general started to get e-mails.

            I would like to try and release one animation as an interactive unity/unreal scene eventually (possibly with mobile version) so that people can play with it. In part, I would like to build it in 3D so I can check certain behavioural aspects.

            Another animation is part after effects.

        • Rene

          I still have my Amiga 1000 stashed in my museum of interesting computers (the closet).

          • Bob Greenyer

            Stunning machine. I still have the mouse from it and an Amiga 1200 + a 32 inch CRT to run it through – in a few years I will share the delights of playing old-skool games on it with my kids.

  • Alan Smith

    We were planning to start another test today, with electrolyticall loaded diapads, but as (after 5 days brewing) the diapads are changing colour and texture we decided to leave it till monday, which gives me a chance to swap the standard PIDs we are using for programmable ones. A picture attached shows the now dark and crrumbly looking nickel rear face of,the discs and also the more greeny hue of the diamond face. We are using a Palladium wire anode, the diapads are magnetically attached to a neo magnet which is in turn soldered to a nickel lead-in wire. The thicker ‘wire’ which has gradually become covered in ‘mystery’ filaments (possibly fragments of Ni plate from the Neos, that can be seen coming up from the cathode bundle is part of another experiment- just being electrolysed at the same time- this is actually a daisy-chain of SamCo cylinder magnets.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/804ddbbb2809edc821683a90f4d582bd8a0a36eaa8bbf1f42757a4c93e323a5c.jpg

  • stuart

    I was wondering if anybody has the capability to treat the nickel/diamond pads in an ultrasonic enviroment such as Suhas does for his fuel prep if the ECCO?

    • Alan Smith

      Yes we do. But that will come much later in the series.

  • Bruce__H

    What is the point of trying new ways of loading the diamonds before the actual LION protocol has been dealt with? LION claims at least 2 successful runs (i.e., with excess heat) in a row. There may be more that I don’t know about. While I think it most probable that he has nothing, shouldn’t his protocol be the one everyone is working on?

    • Alan Smith

      We are waiting for a fuel tube prepared by LION himself, meanwhile we are carrying on with LION based protocols- and will report accordingly. The point of the electrolysis experiments is to explore possibilities and also to make best use of our time.

      • Alain Samoun

        Why Lion doesn’t make another experiment and publish the temperature/radiometry results so we can be more confident that he has what he claims?

        • Engineer48

          Hi Alain,

          Agreed.

          2 cores and no temp data. Seems strange that both runs had faulty data or equipment.

  • magicsnd1

    Today I acquired a HP 6553a 500 watt power supply for the next test series. It’s a real beast, around 25 kilos of very high quality in a rack chassis. And it smells good!

    I’m waiting for a couple of pre-run “seed” diapads from LION which I’m told are in the mail. I’ll add those to around 50 I still have soaking in D2O (just dropped in the tube, no toast-rack), and replace the core thermocouples with plain bolts as used in the original design.

    This would be a good time to discuss any other changes you think appropriate for what will still be a “replication” attempt.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Alan G,

      Maybe put Alan’s 15kHz DC chopper between your new PSU and the heater coil?

      I believe this is what Lion uses.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fc71260cad497c11aca1ae313da17934eaeece7545bae4680176d5bea84a6a5c.png

      • magicsnd1

        AlanS, can you confirm this please. It’s the first I’ve heard of LION using this power circuit!

        • Engineer48

          Hi Alan G,

          Have asked Alan S to let us know.

          • Alan Smith

            It’s the circuit we suggest people use. The PWM ‘chopper” is optional, not everybody uses it, though everybody getr one.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Alan,

            Point being did Lion use the 15kHz chopper for the Lion 1 and Lion 2 results?

            LION can you please answer this question?

            As a backup can Alan S and Bob G please ask Lion if he used the 15kHz chopper and report back?

          • Alan Smith

            Sure. He may tell us himself, however.

      • magicsnd1
        • Engineer48

          Hi Alan G,

          You missed my point which was to answer your question about getting your replication as original as possible.

          We still do not have a statement making it clear if Lion used the LFH 15kHz Dc chopper module to drive the heater during the Lion 1 and Lion 2 core creation runs.

          Must ask why is it so difficult for Lion or someone else to ask Lion and clarify this issue?

          LION please tell us how the heater coils in the Lion 1 and Lion 2 core creation runs were driven?

          • magicsnd1

            As with many details, LION is not entirely clear on the technical parameters. He did confirm to BobG that he has the PWM wired in his system, but wasn’t sure if it was “turned up all the way” or what the display on the LFH PWM module showed. Because the power needed to reach the target temperature needs around 280 watts from the 350 watt supply, it must have been at least 80% duty cycle. My example shows the waveform and harmonic content for 90% duty cycle, and that is what I will be using for the next test.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Alan G,

            Thanks for the update.

          • magicsnd1

            You’re welcome E48. Your suggestion was a good one.

          • Bruce__H

            I get the strong feeling that LION is sort of an intuitive researcher and that the reason he is silent on so many aspects of his runs is that he really doesn’t know what he is doing in terms of control systems and electronics.

            I would not be surprised if it turns out that the entire LION fuss is over nothing.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Alan Smith has already received his seed diapads – yours should get there soon.

    • Charlie tapp

      Do you have any kind of ground wire on your reactor,and did lion use any grounding ? Seemed to be a big deal back in the day with Rossi everyone always thought it was extra power comeing in. I don’t know how it was attatched but he always had an external ground wire hanging on his contraptions. I have brought this up several times with not much response might be worth a try just for more data, mabee a clip you could put on and off. Also after the replication run any chance you are going to play around with it and try some crowd ideas for triggering that is always cool. Thanks for all your work.

      • artefact

        Also me356 uses a good grounding. At me356 MFMP test when it did not work he wanted to get sure the grounding was working.

        • can

          FWIW, if the reaction emits high energy charged particles, they can interact with the materials of the apparatus and cause a voltage disturbance. Monitoring the grounding of the apparatus with an oscilloscope could be an idea..

          • LION

            I predict that if this is done, even after switch off and disconnect a signal will be found on the line.
            BUT.——— only if it was a live run.—-The Atoms take a while to settle.

          • can

            A slow-decaying signal would certainly be a good indicator of something interesting going on, especially if it isn’t strictly correlated with the operating temperature.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Good question. It would also be important to know if there is a RCCB installed in LION’s house.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Dr. Alexander Parkhomov’s Fusion Fission table overview

    Dr. Alexander Parkhomov produced a program that looked at all of the stable element isotopes and calculated nucleon exchange reactions and fission reactions that lead to stable products with a net energy yield.

    It took 10 days to calculate the more than 500,000 possible outcomes and their respective energy output.

    Thankyou to Dr. Parkhomov for this work and making the table available.

    https://youtu.be/IDgybzJ8Ryk

  • Alan Smith

    Today I ordered a Gamma Spectrometer, something made possible by a supporter (who wishes to remain anonymous). It should be a big help in dorting the sheep from the wolves. A big thank you from the lab! .

    • Axil Axil

      The way to detect muons is to interpose shielding between your reactor and the Gamma Spectrometer. As the shielding is increased so will the gamma readings.

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse the site you are agreeing to our use of cookies.