Rossi: “We Have Started to Build Production Lines”

Recent comments from Andrea Rossi have indicated progress in terms of the industrialization effort. He said a few days ago that he was 50 per cent of the way to the finish line. Today he provided a little more information. I asked about the status of the production preparations and got some answers:

Frank Acland
May 8, 2018 at 2:02 PM
Dear Andrea,

If possible, could you confirm or not confirm my interpretation of the current situation.

1) You are currently working in one location in the USA?
2) You have started to build a production system?
3) The production system is designed to build 1 kW E-Cat QX Modules?
4) You have not yet started producing the modules in the system (too early)?
5) The production system you are building will have the capacity to build 100,000 1 kW Modules over the course of one year?
6) If the production system works well, and if sales are strong enough, you can duplicate the production system to increase capacity?

Andrea Rossi
May 8, 2018 at 2:41 PM
Frank Acland:
1- yes
2- yes
3- yes
4- exactly
5- yes
6- yes
Warm Regards,
A.R.

In response to another question on the same topic by Albert Ellul, Ross posted this:

Andrea Rossi
May 8, 2018 at 2:47 PM
Albert Ellul:
I have not said that the production lines are already in place. I said they we have started to build them.
We started in the USA, but we are looking for Sweden as well.
The fundamental module has a power of 1 kW.
We will have depots everywhere they will be necessary.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

For many years Rossi has spoke about having plans for ‘robotized production lines’, but not until now has he confirmed that he has actually started building any kind production line. I don’t think it is too surprising that he is getting this organized in one location initially where he and his team can work actually getting in place an automated E-Cat production system. It can’t be that easy to build such a system from scratch. According to Rossi, they are not yet making working E-Cats, but he says that he wants to reach that crucial milestone by the end of this year.

  • Richard Hill

    Somewhere on this planet a significant industrial operation is starting up involving large sums of money and not a few people.
    It is hard to believe that this would not be noticed by the CIA, FSB, and the like.
    How come it is still a secret?

    • Dms

      Because it is an exaggeration of great proportion.

    • Jag Kaurah

      Producing about 300 units a day is a very small operation. Who would notice such a small operation?

      • Monty

        A single unit tested and proven to work would be enough…

    • Alan DeAngelis

      It has nothing to do with Stormy Daniels.

    • gerold.s

      Hi Richard,

      I had a similar comment …. These might be some valid arguments, which make sense. http://disq.us/p/1scpy6a

    • AdrianAshfield

      Richard, yur comment sounds like it comes from the critics on lenr-forum.com, who think everything is smoke and mirrors.
      If Rossi is to start production this year, as he hopes, he will have started on the services and installing the robots.
      I have built several complete plants, larger than Rossi’s in the past and the only things that reached the news papers were what we sent them. These days the MSM have even fewer staff and do little investigation.

      • Frank Acland

        And when was the mainstream media ever interested in Rossi and the E-Cat?

        • AdrianAshfield

          Certainly can’t compete with something as important as the Stormy Daniel’s affair!

    • causal observer

      “Significant industrial operation”? I agree with Adrian. They’re basically cranking out a bunch of arc lamps and cramming them into a flash water heater. I would be surprised if it took more than 4000 sq ft and half a dozen truckloads of gear.

      As for the second part of your comment, it’s not about whether the spooks or anyone else “notices”. It’s a matter of what, why and how they are willing to report what they notice.

      As far as employees, partners, vendors, contractors, etc., no one on the inside wants to get kicked out at this point. Would you take a $1M payment from CNN versus a 1% stake in a company that could be worth billions? On top of losing the opportunity you would get sued and have trouble getting anyone to care about what you had to say in the first place.

    • Nelson Vogel

      Believe that the fuel formula and preparation is the secret, not the hardware to run the Ecat QX. Like Coca -Cola formula we may never know what is in it. Cheers to Rossi and team, mother nature thanks your achievment !

    • Omega Z

      ->”Somewhere on this planet a significant industrial operation is starting up involving large sums of money and not a few people.”

      Now all you need to do is figure out which one of the vast number among these operations is the one You’re interested in.

      What?
      You think there is but only one such significant industrial operation starting up?

      So, Everyone was waiting to find out where Elon Musk would locate one of the largest manufacturing plants in the world(A 5 Billion dollar plus project). Little did they know that not only had Musk made his decision and signed agreements, around 600 people were hard at work clearing and leveling the sight for the plant. With a very large number of pole lighting, 600 people were working 24/7 for over 3 months preparing the sight.

      Interestingly, a blogger who had been blogging about where said plant would be located(He thought it would be Texas) wasn’t able to find anything on the internet about a location being selected or an agreement signed. This blogger who traveled a certain highway on occasion for his job had been driving past a location in Nevada where this work was taking place for months without noticing this activity.

      Fortunately, due to a job circumstance, he was driving this route in the middle of the night when he noticed this area lite up like a stadium field. He was curious so days latter, he went back to see what was going on. The site was surrounded by a chain link fence and he pulled up near the entrance where he noticed a guard shack. On the fence was a large sign that was emblazoned with the name of a company he had never heard of. In addition, there was little known about the company even on the internet and zero links to Tesla.

      With this many people involved, he took a chance and stopped at a local dinner down the road from the work site thinking at least some of those working there would stop in between works shifts. Obviously, he thought there should be some buzz about the project. But patrons of the dinner seemed not to show much interest. However, when questioning some of them he found they all pretty much new that it was Elon’s battery plant.

      This was big news, but even though at least a 1000 people were fully aware, not ONE considered contacting a news agency asking- What’s it worth for such a news scoop. They were pretty nonchalant about the whole thing. Even when the Blogger blogged about it several weeks before any official announcement was made and most of the prep work was already done, no body noticed.

      Giga-battery plant. Rossi E-cat plant. The general public doesn’t care. People working in these situations merely see it as another job. Nothing special.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Yay

  • sam
  • Dr. Mike

    “started to build the production lines” Does this mean the initial robotic manufacturing machines have arrived? Does it mean robotic manufacturing machines have been ordered? Or does it mean that a study is underway to determine which robotic machines to purchase? All 3 possibilities could be considered as “starting to build the production lines”, but the arrival of the first robotic machines would probably occur 3-6 months later than the study to determine which machines to purchase.

    • causal observer

      You may be underestimating the speed of CAD/CAM design and the velocity of modern manufacturing setups.

      My understanding (based on decades of working in IT and high tech) is that they don’t “study”; they simulate down to the gnat’s whisker, and then ask the computer what to buy. It’s hard to imagine ABB’s product capabilities not being intimately linked to their production design systems. Why would they not do that? It’s just code.

      Although some research might produce data on this, my sense is that 3-6 month delays in production equipment delivery would be a product lifecycle killer. “Hey, we would like to get our new gadget out next quarter before the VC’s nail us to the wall”. “OK, you’re on the delivery list for 3-6 months out.”

      • Dr. Mike

        I believe you are correct that the time will be much shorter with the predetermined decision to go with ABB robotics. A much longer time would be required if 3-4 robotics vendors were competing for Rossi’s business, which is the situation that I am used to (where cost, throughput, delivery time, and guaranteed uptimes had to be evaluated to choose the best vendor). So if Rossi already knows he is purchasing ABB robots, have they arrived at his plant?

        • Omega Z

          ABB like Siemens and others have software that they can use to configure an entire layout of an assembly line. Every Little Step.

          Most Robots are Modular. You select the frame work, the motor size, and the arms according to how they articulate. The parts that may not be off the shelf will be the fingers or grippers. At one time these would be designed, then tools and dies would be manufactured to make these fingers/grippers. This could require several months and possibly not work as intended.

          Today, these can be 3-D printed in a few days and even if it isn’t usable in product manufacturing itself, the design and features can be tested and proven before manufacturing it by traditional means.

          • causal observer

            I have always thought the use of the term “robots” was misleading precisely because it conjured images of “robotic arms”. Automated assembly could have any number of manipulators, push rods, conveyor belts, annealing ovens; you name it. “Robotic” IMO is Rossi-speak for “that kind of stuff”.

      • Jimr

        A robot that handles 1.3 million ,1 in. Long , pencil sized modules ( depending on the density) may not handle larger sized items for the 1kw single module sized or the 10kw or 100 kw modules.

        • causal observer

          Might need more than one robot

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “John May 9, 2018 at 6:54 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi,
    I watched the video of the 24th November Ecat QX presentation at the IVA
    of Stockholm. Very convincing, but I have a question: the water that
    flowed from one reservoir to the other was additivated with something?
    Chhers
    John

    Andrea Rossi May 9, 2018 at 8:42 AM
    John:
    It was water taken from Mats Lewan in the men’s room.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    🙂

  • Buck

    I have followed Rossi for quite a while and I’ve seen how trolls have focused upon finding any means to kick him in the &alls for reasons I just can’t understand. Of course the primary theory is that they are paid to do so; money is a “sane” motivation. I don’t like to think of those who are just so twisted that they appear to gain pleasure from the act.

    In the years I’ve followed Rossi, I have seen him get angry, letting his anger take him places he just shouldn’t go. The toughest time was just after his legal action against IH/Darden went public . . . . he was hounded. I’m certain it took friends to remind him of the need to ignore the “snakes” and to maintain focus upon winning in court . . . HE DID. And his year long effort resulted in the development of the Ecat QX and now the Ecat SK.

    It has been a blast reading how the Scandinavian academic team did multiple tests on the Ecat and were simply stymied by the excess anomalous heat and isotopic shifts. It took time to digest the Gullstrom tests with the reported COPs of about 2200 and 22,000.

    And now we have the Nov 24, 2017 Stockholm demonstration with a senior engineer of Big Oil present and doing the COP measurement . . .with the result of about COP=500.

    Time will tell how this year ends. One thing is certain, a lot has happened since his original 2011 demonstration.

    • Omega Z

      ->”I don’t like to think of those who are just so twisted that they appear to gain pleasure from the act.”

      The sad truth is there are many like this and even relish in others miseries.

      I believe this is just their way of avoiding the fact that THEY are just Losers.

      • Buck

        Yes, it is a sad fact.

    • Dr. Mike

      A lot certainly has happened since the 2011 demonstration. However, thus far the most consistent happening is that there has always been a new product arise during the final phase of development of the previous product that prevents commercialization of the previous product. (Exactly the same can be said of Mills commercialization of a product that uses his hydrino effect.) The original E-Cat was not put into production because of the development of the Hot-Cat. The Hot-Cat was not put into production because of the development of the QX device. Now even as production of a product utilizing the QX devices has been promised to begin by the end of this year, there is a new device, the SK, in development. Would you be surprised if come late this year that it is announced that the SK device looks so promising that it doesn’t make sense to begin production on a product using the QX devices? However, if the robotic machines that will be used to build a product based on the QX device have already arrived at Rossi’s production facility, we should be convinced that he is committed to building a commercial product based on the QX device. Have the robotic machines arrived?

      • Buck

        How strange your view of the Ecat history. You take on the handle of Dr., and perform in a manner similar to Dr. Jacobs in the “West Wing”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD52OlkKfNs

        Your argument ignores the impact of learning about the LENR reaction by Rossi, the logical changes in construction of a reactor, the impact of the changes in COP upon the practical economics of the ~$8 trillion global industry of energy production and distribution, the complexities and expense for the path to commercialization, the predatory behavior of bad actors which apparently came to include IH/Darden, or the simple pragmatic reality of the type of marathon Rossi has had to run since 2011.

        You seem to believe that because you as a DR have the capacity to ask all sorts of questions, good and bad, that therefore Rossi is a cad, a fraud, a charlatan because he chooses to maintain his path rather than march to your drum, drum, drum of question after question.

        Certainly, time will tell how it all turns out over the next 12 months. However, one thing is certain: I won’t bet against Rossi as you apparently have chosen to, given your expressed outlook.

        • Dr. Mike

          I am not really trying to make any argument, I was just stating the facts of what has happened so far in Rossi’s development of LENR technology. Does anyone believe that the SK will be the final reactor? Absolutely not. Rossi or someone else will always be working on the next generation reactor, but at what point does it make sense to commercialize what has been developed? It seems that Rossi prefers to work on R&D. If so, he should turn over the commercialization of the QX product to another team. I’ll stand by my statement that the arrival of robotic machines that will be used build the QX modules will be real evidence that Rossi is committed to commercializing the QX technology. I wish him success in this endeavor and hope he meets his commitment to have a commercial product available by the end of this year.

          • LarryJ

            All tech companies pursue R&D while bringing established technologies to market.

          • Frank Acland

            Frank Acland
            April 17, 2018 at 1:23 PM
            Dear Andrea,
            Is it worthwhile for you to get an industrial product into the market as soon as possible, even if it may soon be replaced by superior models that you have in R&D?

            Best wishes,

            Frank Acland

            Andrea Rossi
            April 17, 2018 at 2:32 PM
            Frank Acland:
            Ask General Motors the same question.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • Dr. Mike

            I totally agree. Why hasn’t Rossi brought his existing technology to the market instead of always promising that the next technology that is R&D will be the one commercialized?

          • Axil Axil

            I think that there is a connection between the SunCell and the SK. The SunCell has a huge power density: 20 megawatts in a teacup sized volume. Rossi is getting up to those power densities with the SK. There come a point where matter cannot contain that power density as in the SunCell so new methods are required to move power to the users. If the power density of the SK grows larger, then a new way to build the reactor is forced on Rossi. The SK must be the end of the line for QX type designs.

    • Mylan

      Sadly, but importantly, Rossi did not win in court. They settled. We don’t know what would have happened if the trial had continued, we might have gotten more insight into the facts, but that never happened, so this lawsuit didn’t teach us anything. We don’t know what both parties wanted to reach, so you can’t say if anyone won.
      And no, the Stockholm presentation did not demonstrate any COP because the input power is completely unknown.

      • LarryJ

        Indusrial Heat relinquished the ecat licenses for North America, South America, Central America, Russia and China. They also relinquished the IP for the ecat and the 1MW prototype reactor which IH built and owned. Rossi kept the $11 million down payment. Tom Darden/IH went home with the lint in his pockets. The outcome was the absolute best Rossi could have hoped for.

        Some people claim Rossi lost because he did not get the $89 million payment but that’s nonsense because he got back everything he sold in the first place. The recovered licenses and IP would be worth far more now than when he sold them for $100 million in 2012 and he is perfectly free to sell them again now. A huge victory for Rossi.

        • Mylan

          It remains to be demonstrated if the licenses are worth anything. Once we know this, we can agree on this topic one way or another. But we just don’t know.

          • LarryJ

            Hard to believe Rossi couldn’t find a buyer willing to pay more now than 6 years ago. Tom Darden is no Dummy. Due diligence was done. He simply overplayed his hand and blew it.

          • Mylan

            It is highly speculative to assume that he would get more today. Why? A lot of time has passed and still no product in the market. I personally doubt Rossi more than I did 2012. I can’t speak for others of course, but I don’t think that his non-delivery of promised products convinced a lot of people outside the perception bubble of this forum.

          • LarryJ

            I don’t see it as very speculative that he would get more for his IP and licenses today than 6 years ago. Maybe from you but not venture capitalists. Tom Darden is an experienced and successful investor and he didn’t get that way by throwing money away. He knew what he was buying when he handed Rossi $11 million as a down payment on his tech. He would have done his homework.

            Since Darden bought the ecat circa 2012 we have had the Ferarra Report, The Lugano Report, the one year Doral reactor test and the Stockholm demo. There are always going to be naysayers and doubters in the absence of absolute proof but I think the movers and shakers would pay a pretty penny to take a chance on this tech on the eve of its going to market.

          • Mylan

            The reports and demonstrations mentioned all raised serious doubts about results and test protocols.
            Darden is a venture capitalist. Venture capital always means high risk. But still he wanted to get out of it after the Doral test. If he would have believed that the E-Cat works as advertised, he would definitely have stayed in the game. Therefore, Darden and what he did is an argument against the reality of the E-Cat, not pro.

          • LarryJ

            When Darden defaulted on the ecat I suspect he thought Rossi would negotiate and allow him to stretch the process out even further. Darden was quite happy selling investments and did not want to pony up $89 million to Rossi plus who knows how much to industrialize and he was not an industrialist. It no doubt caught him off guard when Rossi immediately sued. Rossi wanted out from under him and once the lawsuit was filed there was no going back for Darden. By that point Rossi would not let him stay in the game. His brush with becoming the richest man on the planet was over. He overplayed his hand and lost it all.

      • Omega Z

        Rossi wanted his payment or his Intellectual property back. He stated on JONP that it was one or the other. So Rossi did get what he wanted and more. He kept the 11.5 million$, retrieved all the property and full return/rights of his IP. I’d call that a win.

      • causal observer

        $11.5M, all the IP and invaluable learning. You define winning rather narrowly. Certainty as well.

  • causal observer

    FInd a bookie, place a bet.

  • Omega Z

    100,000 1KW modules, each made with 13 QX’s
    Equals 1,300,000 QX’s total

  • Gerard McEk

    “Andrea Rossi
    May 10, 2018 at 8:48 AM
    Angelica:
    Within this month we will make a very important test on the SK module.
    That could be either a failure or a game changer of our strategy.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    What I guess this would mean is that the SK module is being Sigma 5 tested and if that all works out well in the coming weeks, A.R. will use the SK module for the development of the plants the and not the QX based modules.

    Assuming the SK unit has an output power of 1000W, this would be factor12,5 reduction in required units. If the SK modules are 10 kW, then obviously it will be a reduction of a factor 125. This would make it al lot easier to fabricate.

    • Buck

      I believe it also makes it easier for Early Adopters to test the Ecat system and upgrade the heat output after a 6-12-18 month trial. Rossi seems to agree with this perspective given the following exchange. Of course I am assuming his agreement; I might be misinterpreting his response.

      ========================================

      Buck
      April 8, 2018 at 4:44 PM

      Good Afternoon Andrea:

      thank you for sharing about the 5Sigma testing of the 10kW and 100kW reactor modules. All I can say in response to what you appear to have shared is . . . . BRILLIANT ! ! !

      I believe this because of your opinion expressed to Martin Aubrey (see your April 7, 2018 at 2:47 PM post) that you see the joining of the reactors in series as being useless. For me this suggests one manner of how you intend to scale up the Ecat: when a customer wants a power output beyond what a 1kW can reasonably achieve, then the customer may upgrade, replacing the 1kW with a 10kW, and when needed a 10kW with a 100kW.

      This implies that the box as you have described it, is being specifically designed for this sort of progression, minimizing the footprint of the total purchased Ecat reactor, and enabling a smooth progression using your already proven ability to vary the actual power output of a single reactor from sub-1kW all the way up to 100kW.

      AGAIN, BRILLIANT . . . A customer may choose to be an early adopter, purchase an Ecat reactor to provide say 5% of the heat for an existing operating unit, design the necessary plumbing for the given unit, test the Ecat performance for 6-12-18 months, and upgrade the boxes to the desired new power output level with relatively little redesign of the necessary plumbing because the footprint hasn’t materially changed.

      Of course, if I have misunderstood please correct my error.

      my best regards,

      Buck
      _____________________________________________

      Andrea Rossi
      April 8, 2018 at 5:50 PM

      Buck:

      Thank you for your attention toward our work. All these issues are in progress.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

      • f sedei

        Buck: Maybe you just changed Andrea’s plan. Sounds good!

        • Buck

          FSedei,

          Maybe . . . it was certainly my intent to highlight one way of positioning the Ecat for market introduction, helping him understand how the concerns of Early Adopters, and their Board of Directors, can be effectively assuaged, yet lay the path for allowing the customer to move beyond their resolved worries.

          The following exchange between Rossi & Frank shows that the situation is still fluid. Who knew that Rossi would be able to first enhance the Ecat into the Ecat QX with a rated 80W power output . . . and then about a year later again enhance the Ecat QX into the SK where the rated output is now potentially 1kW or 10kW or 100kW, depending upon what the customer wants.

          ===================================================

          Frank Acland
          May 10, 2018 at 4:59 PM

          Dear Andrea,

          If the SK testing goes as you hope, will it mean the first product you will bring to market will be the SK rather than the QX?

          Thank you very much,

          Frank Acland
          _____________________________________________

          Andrea Rossi
          May 10, 2018 at 5:35 PM

          Frank Acland:

          It is difficult, but could be.

          The SK would be my masterpiece, a real art ouvre.

          But very difficult.

          Warm Regards,

          A.R.

          • Dr. Mike

            Please note the question that I asked you earlier today in a comment well below: Would you be surprised if come late this year that it is announced that
            the SK device looks so promising that it doesn’t make sense to begin
            production on a product using the QX devices? Looks like we didn’t have to wait until “late this year”. On the very day that I suggested that the next step in the E-Cat saga would be for Rossi to claim that the product in R&D (the SK) might be so much better than QX that we should wait for the SK, he is telling Frank that this might just be the case. Well guess what, there will be a new reactor in R&D in a year or two that will be just so much better than the SK that we will just have to wait until that reactor gets developed before a commercial product comes to the market.
            For those that believed that the original E-cat produced a COP of 80 or so in the year long 1MW reactor test, you should be asking why Rossi did not turn this product and technology over to a separate engineering group to commercialize? Look below at a response Rossi gave to Frank on April 17th where he tells Frank to ask General Motors the same question (about getting a product to market even if there is a potentially better one in R&D). Once GM develops a product in R&D, they turn it over to a production group. Why has Rossi not done this if he is achieving the COP’s that he has claimed? Let us hope Rossi at least demonstrates a product using the QX devices this year.

          • causal observer

            Simple decision. The QX apperars to be vastly better than the 1MW technology, comparable perhaps to the differnce in 1930’s va 1990’s automobile technology. Rossi has limited bandwidth (and he knows his time is precious for other reasons); he couldn’t just “turn it over” to an ouside group. Do the math.

          • Dr. Mike

            I assume we will have to wait to see what system COP the QX technology achieves. It might be hard to claim the QX technology is really that much better if you believe the 1MW technology achieved a system COP of 80.

          • causal observer

            “What we have here is a failure to”…share common outlooks. Inductive vs deductive reasoning. I rely a lot on inductive reasoning. Suppose the world is best modeled as a network of causes and effects, and that useful knowledge (i.e. can be applied to produce functional results) is constructed in levels in which the full detail of the network is abstracted and shorthanded. (“That’s not a mass of relatively warm water molecules hovering in the atmosphere, it’s cloud.”)

            For any phenomena at any one level, if the network of causes and effects mostly adds up, and there is no strongly contradictory evidence, I choose to invest memory space, mental energy and imagination opportunities (everything has a cost) in assuming that the phenomena could be real (for which the shorthand is “believing it’s real”).

            Because if I don’t invest in believing in the phenomena at that level, my intuition, sensitive little pattern recognizer that it is, will not show me any patterns emerging from the network at the next level up. My mind hesitates to go up a ladder if the rung I’m standing on wobbles.

            Since this is all just a game, and the fun for me is being able to see the patterns as they emerge, I choose to invest in believing in things that cannot be formally proven by deduction from the available facts. Deduction is great for litigation, building bridges that don’t fall down, and making “claims”. I don’t find it to be as effective in thinking about what might happen next.

  • LarryJ

    Rossi’s IP and licenses for most of the world were owned by Industrial Heat since around 2012. Rossi honestly thought they would help him industrialize the ecat but history has shown how unfortunate this choice of partners was. Your complaint would be more properly laid at their feet as they were the owners of the ecat, not Rossi.

    This past July he finally recovered his IP and licences from IH which allowed him to engage with a new partner and we are seeing a sea change in activity since then.

  • Richard Hill

    The CIA, FSB,,,, are reporting to governments which are very concerned about energy costs.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    I have to put this into a palpable image I can understand. A Rossion Q1 has a 450 hp (331 kW)
    engine. So, would it be possible to build a steam powered Rossion SK?
    http://www.carsbase.com/photo/Rossion-Q1_mp822_pic_45839.jpg

  • Buck

    In the following exchange between Frank & Andrea, Andrea confirms his goal of product introduction to the market by EOY 2018, even if it means it is the QX and not his “masterpiece”, the SK. It seems that Andrea is firming up the odds for EOY 2018 . . . my intuition says it is near 90-95% probable.

    ==================================================

    Frank Acland
    May 10, 2018 at 5:42 PM

    Dear Andrea,

    When you say “very difficult” is that because you are committed to a 2018 product launch, and it would be harder to have the SK ready in 2018, as compared to the QX?

    Thank you,

    Frank Acland
    _________________________________________

    Andrea Rossi
    May 10, 2018 at 8:26 PM

    Frank Acland:

    Exactly. But it could be a masterpiece. Probably my masterpiece. Or a failure.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

  • causal observer

    QX vs SK: Consider how the iPhone evolved out the iPod, and has evolved since the first iPhone. A very important part of that type of product evolution is to create a framework that can be used for testing, learning and development. Unless the SK has significantly different physical dimensions, most of what they will have learned about QX production will be transferable to SK production.

    Another very important part of all that is not so much the actual design but the design process, including all the knowledge development and collaboration that goes with it. Like the iPhone, with the physical framework, the design process and the knowledge and collaboration in place, the jump from QX to SK could be more evolutionary than revolutionary.

    That having been said, Rossi is smart to spread his bets. The QX heaters, just like the first smartphones, are likely to be transformational by themselves, so there’s no longer a reason to hold out for the SK in order to go commercial.

    • Dr. Mike

      I certainly agree with your conclusion: “there’s no longer a reason to hold out for the SK in order to go commercial.” Let’s wait and see what happens.

    • sam

      Sam
      May 10, 2018 at 8:05 PM
      Hello DR Rossi

      Could you give a summary of the improvements
      you have made on the QX since the Stockholm
      demo.
      Good luck on the SK test this month.

      Regards
      Sam

      Andrea Rossi
      May 10, 2018 at 8:25 PM
      Sam:
      1- increased the power to 1 kW with the same dimensions
      2- eliminated the heating problems of the circuitry
      3- designed the module in a way to be easily industrialized
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

      • artefact

        Sounds very very good.

  • causal observer

    touche!

  • Buck

    Excellent ! ! !

    ===================================

    Frank Acland
    May 10, 2018 at 10:20 PM

    Dear Andrea,

    Very interesting comments about the SK recently.

    In my opinion, for most people on the outside, I think any high COP reliable E-Cat product that you can put on the market is going to be considered a masterpiece. The SK may be better than the QX, but I think the QX, as you have described it, will be just fine to begin with.

    You can always start with a limited run of QXs for the product launch, while you perfect the SK.

    Hoping for a successful 2018 launch!

    Best wishes,

    Frank
    __________________________________

    Andrea Rossi
    May 10, 2018 at 11:24 PM

    Frank Acland:

    I agree.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

  • Omega Z

    Spam

  • Omega Z

    Spam also

  • cashmemorz

    Start of a production system includes many activities, at the start. One of the first if not the very first, is studying the item to be produced, to figure out the exact steps that have to be performed to make it and make it properly, so that it works exactly as it was intended to work. So the work at that stage is about flowcharts, listing primary hardware including specialty processing of core materials.
    It does not mean that the robots that will be assembling the final item are being put on the production floor or that a floor or any building is being readied for. production. A building site could be reserved for lease or for rent sometime in the future, if and when the robots and processing equipment is to be put in place. If 50% of the production has been planned, that could mean, at this early stage, is that the item to be produced has been understood up to 50% as to what is required to make it. Once the full set of processes is understood on paper then everything else starts to fall in place, more or less automatically. The further along all of these steps go then there will be tweeking of the earlier steps to accommodate the later adjustments that are encountered. There will be a lot of this adjusting of the plan on paper, the further the over all plan proceeds towards the physical placement of equipment. In a novel item as the Ecat QX, this will be very time consuming because of those continuing adjustments. Rossi’s claim of 50% can mean any of many things at this stage.

  • Frank Acland

    Viktor Scipachev
    May 11, 2018 at 11:39 AM
    Dear Andrea:
    Remember that BEST is enemy of GOOD: the Ecat QX with a good COP wilol be enough of a masterpiece.
    Best Regards,
    Viktor Shipachev

    Andrea Rossi
    May 11, 2018 at 12:02 PM
    Viktor Scipachev:
    He,he,he… anyway the SK is not going to slow down the QX.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • AdrianAshfield

    The initial results of the Sk are exciting Rossi enough that I fear he will be tempted to go with that rather than the QX.
    Even if he gets a good working prototype of the SK in the next few months it would require a year of testing and production would ne by the end of 1019 rather than 2018.

    • Omega Z

      That Rossi is still exploring other possibilities does not concern me. Keep in mind that batteries are not a 1 size fits all. I think Rossi will start production with the QX. Variations will follow latter.

      • Jas

        I agree. The SK might be more expensive to purchase than the QX. Small buisinesses may decide to opt for the QX initially until the SK comes down in price.

        • frank

          What a great debate on prices, products, sales etc…I have never seen a revolutionary product launch like this, without any single detail for someone who is interested to get one of the new devices:
          – what is the final price of a basic module? a set of modules?
          – how can a company install this plant or heater? Is it a container? A loose set of controllers, pipes, reactors?
          – where to buy and order (nothing yet on any website)?
          – any compatibility to my running electricity generator or heating system or do I have to scrap and buy a complete new device/plant?
          – Do I need a professional plumbing service?
          – What about warranty and running costs over the years?
          – is it safe to use (certified)?
          – do local grid suppliers accept feeding unneeded energy back to their grid? Do I get compensation?
          – what are the benefits (in dollar, time and effort) of this new unmatched energy source vs the established competitors?

          I could go on and on. Everybody who plans to invest in a new expensive piece of equipment wants to get answers like the above, before he spends a couple of thousand dollars or Euros. Every serious company who wants to do business, would throw around high glossy marketing brochures or PDFs to download – but I can’t see anything.
          I have mentioned a couple of weeks ago, that Rossi and his partners will need a professional marketing launch campaign and a partner to get this device on the road.
          Since there is no sign of anything of the above, I doubt very much, that there will be a production and products to sell, even if the first customers may be secret as usual. If there is no demand (outside of this forum Rossi and the ECAT QX is more or less unknown), how would it work to produce tousands on stock? This is not how business works, but maybe Rossi has enough money to burn. If it will be the money of a contracted serious business partner they will for sure rely on strong evidence of their wanted ROI…

          • causal observer

            I understand that the downloadable PDF’s about the iPhone that were out before Jobs’ initial announcement are quite the collector’s item these days.

          • causal observer

            “Senator, we have private sales communications.”

          • LarryJ

            If the first production run is only 100 reactors and a large part of those go to his backers then the people who need to know will know what they need to know. The rest will get to know what they need to know close to or shortly after the launch.

          • Nelson Vogel
          • Omega Z

            ->”I have never seen a revolutionary product launch like this”

            Perhaps that’s because there has never been a product of this nature like this in modern times.

            And maybe you should just wait until there is an actual product being launched as this is a technology that is still in the development process towards launch. Demanding answers to your questions at this time is ridiculous.

            And contrary to what you’ve repeatedly posted, there are many companies that would be more then willing to collaborate with Rossi as his 1st industrial user of this technology. Corporations do this all the time. Risk takers are rewarded. Corporations averse to taking risk and making change are known as use to exist. Use to be the industrial leaders.

  • Axil Axil

    Is Rossi saying that he is getting 10 times the power density out of the SK than he is getting from the QX? That is, ten times the power out of the same size reactor?

    • artefact

      The module is said to be the same size. We don’t know about the heat exchanger.
      Probably the heat is generated outside the reactor, the effect inside.

      • Jimr

        I have not heard him say the module is the same size as the thirteen in the 1kw, The entire reactor size was the same size for the sk 1kw model. The reactor size for the 10kw and 100kw are larger he said. Correct me if I am wrong.

        • artefact

          That could be. It is not easy to track the “reactor”,”module” and so on. 10 and 100 kw are bigger he said.

          • Jimr

            There is so much confussion between the terms module and reactor. When I asked him some time ago he stated the entire unit is a reactor and what I
            call the heating units are individual modules. The exact opposite of what I originally thought. And whar many still think.

          • causal observer

            Rossi probably called his waste converter a reactor. Thus, the whole box.

    • causal observer
  • Gerard McEk

    Andrea’s says that his new ‘masterpiece’ has an improved SSM.
    So how do you improve the the self sustained mode of a plasma? Maybe after starting the plasma with an electrical (discharge) pulse, connect the electrodes to an inductive, capacitive or resonant passive circuitry?

  • Omega Z

    It’s not the temperature. It’s the amount of energy involved.
    An incandescent bulb can exceed 2700`C, but doesn’t melt the glass or destroy any other parts of the bulb.

    Compare a bowling ball and a marble both at 11000 degree. The marble would be much easier to contain. Rossi’s plasma is much smaller then the marble and likely has no physical contact with the surface of the electrodes.

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