English Transcript of SVT Cold Fusion Program

Many thanks to a Swedish E-Cat World Reader Klas for providing the following transcript to yesterday’s SVT program on Andrea Rossi and the E-Cat.and the E-Cat.


Rossi Cold Fusion – from SVT Vetenskapens Värld ( World of
Science) 17 december 2012

English translation of the swedish, verbal and text.

xx:xx refers to cliptime in e-catworld videoclip



This is about Cold Fusion and the dream of unlimited energy.

Mats Lewan – physicist and reporter at Ny Teknik:

It requires a very small amount of fuel and the fuel is available in very large quantities.

The fuel leaves no radioactive waste.

Magnus Holm – CEO at Hydrovison:

The amount in this bottle is enough to run the car for its lifetime.


SVT – Linus Brohult-reporter:

This is the history of how a claimed new and clean nuclear power could

offer man unlimited energy. A dream which again raise a strong argue between scientists.

One man claims to have the solution but what is the secret?


Universe consists of billions of stars. Each one is a fusion reactor which continuosly creates energy.

But also water consists of same basic material as the sun, Hydrogen.

What if the hydrogen energy contained could replace gas and oil?

This dream has been exploited in Hollywood as here in the film, “The Saint”.

Fusion energy is the possible future energy source booth for Hollywood and nuclear scientists.

In France a reactor is built that should produce a temperature of several millions as in the sun.

This heat is very difficult to handle into a reactor housing.

Could it be possible to create this dream energy in room temperature?

This idea has already caused a very strong debate in scientific world.

This video is from 1989.The news that american scientists suceeded with creating Cold Fusion hit the world.

Shortly after the science community decided to regard the whole thing as science humbug.


The idea on Cold Fusion was declared dead.

But the last two years the Cold Fusion has been “hot”again due to new italian experiments.

Now we will try to get to the core of these experiments.

Do they indicate a new secret source of energy?

Bologna, in the morning at early autumn, is one of the oldest cities in Europe.

Narrow, curved streets and buildings breathing history.

Here is the oldest university in the world, founded in 1200 century, and

also the man which has provided a new start the the dream of pure fusion energy.

The engineer Andrea Rossi has together with physicists at the University developed

an apparatus that is claimed to generate large amounts of energy from a new type of nuclear reaction.

Still this is not the first time Rossi is involved in spectacular energy inventions.

During 80′ s he became known in Italy for creating a system for converting waste to biodiesel.

This business led to bankruptcy and accusation on illegal waste management.

Rossi escaped to USA and continued to develop his waste/energy invention.

It was in the USA exile he got the idea and started the experiments on his controversal fusion energy.

We take the tour to small city of Ferrara outside Bologna.

As the first TV team ever we will visit Rossi secret test factory.

But will we get full insight in his secrets?


The question is still how the whole thing works?

Inside reactor is a small container with Nickel-powder which is heated by a small

electrical heater and hit by a flow of Hydrogen gas.

And it is then when the heat is claimed to raise.

Then Rossi pulls the plug and disconnects power from his reactor.

Rossi shows how the temperature raise is flattening when the heating of the Ni-substance stops..

Then the curve is strongly raising again,- due to nuclear reactions according Rossi.

Although power was disconnected for some hours of interview the temperature in reactor is still high

according the instrument. But you need significantly higher temperatures than boiling water for effective

electricity production.

I am feeling a bit nervous inside the reactor. He has there, in parallell, connected 100 small reactors to create

one large 1MW reactor, powerful as a large windturbine.

The streets of Bologna are narrow but now we go to Bologna university where Cold Fusion has been

on research since 2006.

Here on this university the new research on Cold Fusion has developed.

Christos Stremmenos was one of the researhers in the sometimes risky experiments.

Christos Stremmenos-professor physical chemistry:

Sometimes we had exposions, luckily at night. Three explosions.We noted changes in

temperature from 400 to 1000 C.


The main problem was to control the heat development and also the created energy was too small

to become a real energy source. At this moment the italian physicists were close to give up research.

5 years ago the engineer and innovator Andrea Rossi joined the Bologna physicists.

Then suddenly the whole gameplan was changed.


When I returned to Bologna Focaldi told me: We have it, Christos!

An engineer Rossi has started to work with me and we have moved from watt to kilowatt.

I did not believe my ears.


The Rossi design of Ni-powder increased the energy conversion 400 times.

Suddenly the box could produce power as a small wind turbine from very small amount of Ni

and Hydrogen, at least according the italian physicists.

But details on the substance that was added to Ni-powder is still a Rossi secret.


The dream of unlimited energy is of course not new.


The usual nuclear power where nuclei are splitted has known sideeffects as radiation, dangerous waste

and risk of nuclear meltdown. In normal nuclear power the nuclei are splitted but in fusion they are merged.

The problem is here that nuclei are positivley charged and do not like to be too close to each other.

By heavily increased temperature the nuclei are forced to move faster and merge but this requires millions

of temperature degrees.

In the theory on cold fusion from nobelprice winner Julian Schwinger the extreme temperature increase is

not needed. Instead if the Hydrogen nuclei are pressed into a metal gitter e.g. made by Ni the distance could be short enough to start a merge process.


Now we will meet some of the many physicists that regard the italian experiments as unreliable measurements

or even humbug.

I was visiting Rossi last week and he made me a demonstration .

If that was for real should I be dead by gammaradiation by now?


Peter Ekström-nuclear physicist Lund University:

Yes, you should have already a deadly dose in a few seconds according normal calculations.

If we merge these two we get out either a proton or a netron .


According laws of nature as we know them today nuclear reactions always produce heavy radiation

where protons and neutrons move between nuclei as shown here.

We now allow the Lund scientists to show how they think the Rossi device functions in reality.

Göran Nybom-electronic engineer Lund University:

You can always work with electrical parameters and else matters to create an illusion of a positive exchange of

energy. It is in fact possible to create big illusions in rather simple ways.

Here we have a very simple experiment with daily components where we seem to produce more energy than we spend.

We will use ordinary cold tapwater and our “fusion reactor”, is a modified electrical heater.

We start att 22 C and 240V. We also measure current to 1,53 A.

Now the water will be heated as we see.We stop the watch at 70 C.


According the measured values we have now produced 2 times the energy we put in.

So you mean that we get out 2 times the energy we put in?




In his demo Rossi pulls out the plug to show that temperature still rises but this is dismissed in Lund as a trick.



The manipulations are all done with the things you do not expect to be manipulated on.

You have at the same time all focus on the things you think will perform.

This is typical for all illusions at circus and in other places.


So it is all only a full illusion…?

Yes, fact is that Cold Fusion seems to break the most fundamental laws within nuclear physics.


Joakim Cederkäll-professor nuclear physics Lund University

Two charged particles with same charge repells from each other.

The main problem if you would like to get fusion is to force the nuclei close enough each other.


If this should succeed you need to add a very large amount of energy, e.g. by very high temperatures.

The most sceptical researchers in Lund think that the experiments in Italy is a conscious fraud.


If we look at the Hydrogen fusion in the sun there is a need of about 15 million degrees .

When it comes to chemical reactions as this seems to be, nobody knows how it works and as it is

presented “secret”it would be very interesting to learn how it really works.


So it appears as if the world of science is ruling out the the italian research and the possibilities for

so called Cold Fusion.

And then this saga about the dream of eternal energy will come to an end.

But suddenly I hear that Rossi will appear at a larger meeting in Switzerland, a global

sales kickoff for the new fusion reactor and I decide to join the meeting.

Hundreds of people have joined , among other things talking about details on marketing of the new reactors.

And when Rossi shows up he is received more like a rockstar.

From the stage he also reveals the experiment on a new reactor which should produce electric power

through large powerplants.



I start to wonder who is in the audience and when I get hold of a list of participants I find several large

european energy producers e.g. Vattenfall from Sweden.

Anders Åberg-physicist Vattenfall:

This is something new and of course it is our duty as an energy company to follow up alternatives.

This is one possibility that perhaps will change the whole world.


Anders Åberg appears to be the research manager for this area and he does not at all believe

that Rossi is a faker.


He is an real entrepreneur. He goes straight ahead , does not care about theories but just like to

get to something which works.

We have one problem and that is to replace nuclear power with something in the future.


To my surprise now the responsible person at Vattenfall is here and tells that their hope is that

Cold Fusion could be a possible replacement for nuclear power.

I now become puzzled, is Vattenfall, number 5 on the list of European energy giants,

really fooled by circus illusions?

Or is there perhaps another angle to this story, physicists that actually think that the Rossi machine really works?

I go to visit the swedish physicists that visited Bologna and studied the italian device in action.

They actually claim it works.


Hanno Essen- ass. professor theoretical physics KTH University Stockholm

It all started when Mats Lewan from Ny Teknik called me. He had already been in Italy or perhaps read about the italian

test in Bologna when Rossi first time officially showed his work.

Lewan send a question to me and Sven Kullander and we looked at what was written about it.


They were booth very interested after a contact with Rossi and were the invited to be observers at a coming test.

Sven Kullander-professor high energy physics Uppsala University:

From the time the electrical heater was switched the watertemp started to to rise as expected.

According our calculations it should rise to + 60 C and then stop rising.


Rossi was the running the device in free running mode with no electric power connected.


After 6-8 min the +60 was reached and then temp was accelerated at double speed up to +100.


Yes, I was surprised indeed. It was quite fun to see the temp curve also. Something happened at a ceratin templevel.

It was a sudden larger slope on the temp curve.


Something happened here which cannot be explained by the power injected, some internal process.

Then you can ask yourself what?


So there is something in this powder that makes this sudden temperature increase?


Yes, I believe it is.



And then it was allowed to boil water and it did for 6 hours .

After 6 hours I measure outside temp to + 85C.

You could burn yourself on it and put the hand close and feel the cooking inside.


And then we made our calculations, all data was available.


You were calculating all at the site?


Yes we noted all data, watervolume, all temperatures and electrical power.


What was your conclusion?


The conclusion was that heat energy produced was 10 times the injected electrical energy.



So, to their surprise, the swedish physicists came to the result that the device produced 10 times the energy

injected by electric power.

Also they conclude that the energy produced is far too large to be the result of wrong measurements or illusion.

But what is then this strange heat production? Is it really Cold Fusion or some other yet unknown phenomena.?


At a classic fusion as known from physics the radiation is extremely intense.

All around should have died rather quickly and therefore it is not classic fusion.

This is the conslusion and therefore this is something else.


It seems to be some sort of nuclear reaction but not the one normally studied by physicists.

We are several people, at least four or five that has calculated these values and can confirm that Rossi

achieves anormal and far to high amounts of heat.


So, an up to now unknown type of nuclear reaction.

What would that mean in reality?

We ask a person who is really planning for this future world of fusion energy, Magnus Holm.

with PhD in particle physics from Chalmers University of Technology .

He has now started a company together with other physicists with aim to sell the fusion reactors of the future.

Magnus Holm:

The potential for Cold Fusion as energy source is, if not unlimited , very large.

It will in the long run replace all other sources of energy.

What is the liftime of a car, maybe 1 million km?

This bottle, it will be enough for all this milage. You never have to add fuel.

Then you have the perfect source of energy in your car.

You might have a small sterling engine running in it all the time charging batteries.

Before you thought to plugin the power from the house to charge the car .

It might be the other way around, you plug in the car to the house at night to get

electric power for the house.All is possible.


And there are more expectations. Also NASA is doing research on how to use this new

nuclear power as fuel for future spacecrafts.


But most scientists remain sceptic.

Göran Eriksson-professor nuclear physics Uppsala University:

It is difficult for a scientist to say something is impossible but there is nothing

indicating that this type of reaction could exist.


Critics stick to the view that Cold Fusion is humbug and “to good to be true”.


At some time it could be to good to be true and if you are to negative you might close an important door.


It looks to fantastic to be true but whatever happens it will always be a good story.