LENR-Electric Hybrid Locomotives?

I liked the idea that Tom Kaminski posted about in another thread. He wrote: this:

“I recently attended a talk by a large US rail freight company who is exploring rail electrification. Distances are so great in the US and the capital cost of catenary electrification so large that it is likely not to ever occur. A hybrid electric train engine using a compact power source like LENR might be the ideal solution. This particular company spends over 2 Billion $US per year on diesel fuel. They would like to cut that.”

This is something I’ve thought about too, after I learned that many of the large diesel locomotives on US railroads are actually propelled by electric engines — the diesel engines are simply used to generate the electricity which is used to drive motors on the axles of the locomotive. Below is a short video of one example. (BTW, I did not know the term “catenary electrification” until now — that’s the system of overhead wires that are used to send electricity to electric trains used in many parts of the world)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-3InSFvtKg

So it might well be possible for and E-Cat (or similar) power source to replace the diesel engine, generating the electricity for the train.

  • scottlshman

    .

    The AC6000CW is a 6,000-horsepower (4,500 kW) diesel electric locomotive built by GE Transportation. This locomotive, along with the EMD SD90MAC,
    is among the most powerful single-engined diesel locomotives in the
    world. The only locomotive to surpass them is the dual-engine
    6,600-horsepower (4,900 kW) EMD DDA40X.

    An eCat gives 100w so to give 4500 kW there would have to be 45,000 eCats in series. Sounds a bit unlikely then.

    .

    .

    • Gerard McEk

      A QuarkX has only 20W rated output, but can be clustered to ‘any’ level of power as Rossi has said more than often. Making mechanical/electrical power you will lose about 66%, so the numbers will be likely 15 times as high. I guess it will take a while before E-cat QX will be applied for non-heat but force based energy generation. Maybe the combination with a jet will be the first, but I assume the military will demand NDA.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi has said 1MW can fit within a 1 meter cube and it appears this may become a standard module. 5 in series would give you 5000KW or 5 meg. Once manufacturing is optimized, i would think the could pop these out like a mini-gun in action.

      • Leonard Weinstein

        Rossi’s version produces heat, not electricity. If the heat is used in a steam engine (10-15% efficient), 33 to 50 MW thermal would be needed for that version to match the 5MW electric. If a steam turbine (~20% efficient for the levels needed) is used to generate the electricity as with diesel-electric, 25 MW thermal would be needed. These are much larger requirements than just 5 MW.

        • Omega Z

          They could use super critical CO2 system at over 50% efficiency. It would be much smaller then a steam system.

          Option 2- Gas turbine without the gas. Merely powered by the direct high temp heat. Also at 50% efficiency.

          • scottlshman

            .

            Electricity fron an eCat, at the moment, would be via steam and a turbine driven electricity generator.

            http://tinyurl.com/yb87x4qn

            .

          • Leonard Weinstein

            Look at the date for that post: 2012. Also look at the promises of delivery dates and proposed costs. That is an outdated and not useful post.

          • Omega Z

            With temperatures that the QX operates, even steam turbines would be smaller and above 50% efficient. Already exist, being built and a few in operation in China and India. A current design has obtained 51% average efficiency. I know right. The MSM ignores this.

            Future super critical CO2 systems holds promise of 75% or more efficiency and Several majors(Siemens/GE) are working on these new systems today. They are much smaller/ 10MW on your desktop. Probably 5 years before anything significant becomes available and decades of transition.

            The QX also has the potential of powering jet engines/gas turbines with heat only. At least 10 years I would guess before anything of reality. While I think Rossi has the goods, it’s still a matter of if or when this technology becomes reality. A lot of technology never makes it into the real world because real world differs from lab work. Sometimes we haven’t the means to overcome certain road blocks to becoming a usable consumer product.

        • bob dash

          If it is steam. Supercritical CO2 would work better, paired with some compact direct electricity extraction method as a hybrid.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Unlikely, how many batteries would be in an Elon Musk style battery pack to power one?

  • Leonard Weinstein

    The BLP system seems more suitable for this use. Direct generation with solar cells should be possible at over 30% efficiency, and 1 MW thermal versions have been demonstrated. An array of 12 to 15 of these systems would produce 4 to 5 MW electrical in a fairly small space. A simple analysis indicates that diesel-electric cost is over $0.30 per kW-hr for just the fuel, while a conservative cost for BLP systems should be about 10%, or less, of this for the complete system assuming a 10 year period and assuming a 30% active time. The waste heat removal is about the same for diesel-electric and BLP versions, so should not be a problem.

    Rossi’s version (assuming QuarkX and high temperature output) does not make electricity. His version would have to use a steam engine (much less efficient at typically 10-12% at this level). The steam would have to be dumped, so a water car is also needed. Alternately add a large steam to electric generator. The generator would have to be 5 MW electrical out, which likely is not better than 20% efficient, so 25 MW of heat energy is needed. Now you have to cool, and without water cooling is not efficient, so drops the generator efficiency even lower using air cooling. This looks impractical.

    • Omega Z

      A super critical CO2 system with the E-cat would work quit well at over 50% efficiency. The system would possibly be smaller then their current diesel systems.

  • Rene

    If three ZPMs can power the ancient city of Atlantis, surely one of them can power a train. They are highly efficient, generating megawatts of energy with scarcely any waste heat.
    In this regard, the Rossi quarks are the worst fit for a train since they generate so much waste heat. The BLP system, assuming it can actually work while in motion, might be a better fit with its higher efficiency. But then, both of these systems are science fiction until proven otherwise by true independent third parties. Veritas vincit.

    https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/stargate/images/0/0c/SGA-3×05-3_E2PZ.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090605133047&path-prefix=fr

    • Omega Z

      Locomotives already produce a lot of waste heat. There powered by diesel at around 25% efficiency plus dissipate heat from the electric motors.. Trains are efficient only because they move by rail with little friction. (rails are crowned) A trains wheels only have contact with the rails of about 5/8ths of an inch diameter.

      Trains can move 1 ton of freight at 500 mpg. If our current cars traveled by rail, they would be rated at about 350 mpg city and 500 mpg highway. Rail purpose designed cars would likely double that. Anyway, the heat produced per mile traveled is minimal.

      Anyone can move a fully loaded boxcar(120 ton) with a Manual Car Mover. Design one of these suckers to be powered by a 5hp briggs and stratton and you could easily move that boxcar along at 20 mph on the flats..
      http://www.advancecarmover.com/images/CARMOVER.jpg

  • BAA

    Maybe they can apply it to the Hyperloop…

  • wizkid

    It wouldn’t take much to keep a tiny battery set charged to run an electric car, with continuous duty charging. Rossi’s reply below encourages us that the new partners see this in the future.

    Andrea Rossi
    September 24, 2017 at 8:10 AM
    Sebastian:
    With our Partner we will go for electricity production: I got a very good idea today for this issue.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Scott Castillo

    Maybe they can apply it to the Hyperloop…

  • Omega Z

    Locomotives are already have electric drive motors.
    What’s intended here is replacing diesel generators with LENR generators. All else is the same.

  • Valentin

    Maybe they can apply it to the Hyperloop…

  • quentin dumont

    A super critical CO2 system with the E-cat would work quit well at over 50% efficiency. The system would possibly be smaller then their current diesel systems.

  • rizkiy_n

    They could use super critical CO2 system at over 50% efficiency. It would be much smaller then a steam system.Option 2- Gas turbine without the gas. Merely powered by the direct high temp heat. Also at 50% efficiency.

  • lucas beck

    A super critical CO2 system with the E-cat would work quit well at over 50% efficiency. The system would possibly be smaller then their current diesel systems.