Rossi has Goal of Building E-Cat Engines for All Modes of Transportation

In recent weeks Andrea Rossi has started to comment quite frequently about a new goal he has for the E-Cat: to build an E-Cat powered engine within one year.

As is usual with Rossi, we get few details. Being curious, I put a question to him about this topic today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:

Frank Acland
October 27, 2017 at 8:20 AM
Dear Andrea,

The engine you want to build within a year, would it be for cars, trucks, trains, boats, planes, or something else (if so, what)?

Andrea Rossi
October 27, 2017 at 8:38 AM
Frank Acland:
We are thinking to an engine that could be duly adapted to all the cathegories you cited, like the gas engines universally diffused.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

This sounds extremely ambitious. For many years Rossi has stated that it would take decades to get the E-Cat approved for working for automobiles, and seemed to be concentrating on making heat for industrial processes. Now his goals sound different — perhaps the change in thinking is influenced by the new partner he says he is now working with — perhaps the partner is involved in making engines.

Rossi did provide one small detail on how the the engine might work today:

Engineer
October 26, 2017 at 10:45 PM
Dear Dr Andrea Rossi:
I suppose in a gas turbine the sole area where the E-Cat can be inserted is after the compressor, correct?

Andrea Rossi
October 27, 2017 at 6:40 AM
Engineer:
Yes, where are the burners.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

In the last interview I did with Rossi he said that the temperature of the new E-Cat QX reactor reaches is the same as burners in gas turbines, so it sounds like he is thinking along the lines of replacing fuel combustion with E-Cat reactors. I would guess that there would be big engineering issues involved in pulling this all together, but if you have a heat source that produces the temperatures that Rossi claims, using tiny amounts of input energy and barely any fuel, then it would seem to be a challenge worth pursuing.

  • Chad Herndon

    It seems that scaling of an ecat integrated turbine unit would work well. Sterling engine—>DC generator—>electric drive train—> 1 module with output of 2500 rpm for a scooter, 5 for a car, etc.
    Since I am not a physicist, can anyone speak to how a sterling engine would work for this? It seems that getting rpm’s would be easy, but does this type of engine work well under load? I keep questioning the quality of the mechanical power generated from the temperature gradient.
    Sorry if that seems overly simple. I have followed this for years, but have a medical background. be kind…

  • attaboy

    Seems Rossi’s had a lot of goals and dreams over these many years. The time has long since past where words should have been replaced by action.

  • Sean

    Well I have just consulted with Dad. Ex R.R. P.eng / Power Jets 1950’s F. Whittle. Tyne / Spey & RB211. He states that indeed a heat source behind the compressor will operate the engine as is done with burning fuel. Jet engine manufacturers had experimented with different heat sources in the past. The earlier engines burned at temperatures of 1400 degrees. The more modern engines thanks to advances in metallurgy, operate around 1700 degrees. My personnel thoughts are that the heat must be distributed evenly to all the air molecules. That could be achieved by consulting Reaction Engines. They build a Sabre air breathing turbo rocket engine with a super cooler. The super-cooler is the main ingredient that makes this engine work. Now what is needed is something like the Sabre engine, but change the super-cooler to a super heater behind the compressor. Just my 2 cents worth. So good news for Rossi. Its a pity that Sir Frank Whittle is no longer with us as I am sure the two inventors “Rossi & Frank” would get along very well together.

    • Stephen

      I would love to see that and I think you are right.

      I recently was lucky enough to see a presentation by Alan Bond and couldn’t help thinking the work of reaction engines and the e-cat would be a perfect match. I think the ecat tech could be an enabling technology for them but also their experience could help ecat. It’s not just the thermal power source but their particular knowledge of hydrogen and thermodynamics and fluid dynamics at these high temperatures pressures that made me think about it. Even their developments in cooling could be useful I think. I wouldn’t be surprised if lessons learnt in the Sabre engine development could help other applications of ecat type devices too.

      Alan Bond is a unique forward thinker it was a privilege to see him. My impression of him was that he is always looking one more step ahead than most. I sometimes wonder if he is already following developments in LENR.

      • Sean

        Yes you are fortunate to have met Alan Bond. It would be good if Rossi met with him also. Perhaps thermal or electromagnetic propulsion could be used on the Sabre using the ECAT. I had met Frank Whittle when he came to visit R.R. Montreal for historical presentations. He was also a forward thinker, though one guy in the audience asked him about hydrogen powered jet engines and Frank sort of dismissed the idea for one reason or the other. I asked my dad now 92 about Alan Bond and he said he knew of him but never met him. Though they both worked at sometime R.R. Derby.

  • Martin Lund

    The only thing I want at this point is for Rossi to demonstrate his fantastic E-cat device by boiling us a cup of hot water for tea and in the process show an indisputable 1+ COP

    Of course, the tea should be served to Steven Weinberg as he is the one originally requesting the tea cup demonstration from the cold fusion community.

    • Rene

      Indeed. The first step, since Rossi is into commercialization, is a provable and truly independent 3rd party verified demonstration unit. He says he has something that works, but as before I think his excitement is making him wax well beyond his present capabilities.

      It is fun to see the speculation but it is just that, extrapolations based on naked unverified statements by the inventor. All the hoopla about e-cat driven engines, e-cat automobiles, e-cat driven laptops, jets, power systems, space ships are just wild speculations by the inventor and amplified by his believers, and dreamers.

      I do hope that the demo sometime in November may actually demonstrate something provable and verifiable, but to date since 2011, we have not seen such an event.

  • Rene

    No, it’s not fair to say that. Everything to this point are naked unverified statements by the inventor. All the hoopla about e-cat driven engines, e-cat automobiles, e-cat driven laptops, jets, power systems, space ships are just wild speculations by the inventor and amplified by his believers, and dreamers.
    Until a simple demonstration showing verified excess heat doing anything other than making pretty steam clouds happens, it is all still firmly in unverified territory. Maybe this demo sometime in November may actually demonstrate something provable and verifiable, but to date since 2011, we have not seen such an event.
    One can only hope.

  • Axil Axil

    https://www.google.com/patents/US7810325

    A lithium hydride based engine that might work well with a high temperature LENR heat source.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Now we know what the Stirling Engine is intended for. Dottore Rossi seems to be misguided.

    He should be focusing upon his own product and letting the engineers of the world do what they do with the E-Cat as a component.

    Make the best reactors you can and let the people who know what they are doing build whatever other components are needed to adapt it.

    This way lies madness and failure. The world is large and ever changing and your paradigm is obsolete Dottore Rossi.

    • mcloki

      Typical Superman Syndrome.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Just old school conceptual scale limitations, no concept of modern market penetration strategies.

        • Zephir

          Once Rossi would release something at least usable, then the Japanese will miniaturize it and Chinese will sell it as a DIY kit.

          • Ophelia Rump

            He just needs to sell a single component and let others take the liability and make the investments and take the risks then he can own the market in perpetuity off of the residual loyalty.

            Some day when there are competitive products on the market. he would have a brand name firmly established in the mass market. He wants to be Steve Jobs, he needs to be Intel Inside.

          • kenko1

            you hit the nail on the head! Although I would like to see an original iphone-esque rollout come this Nov. e.g.”:THIS IS THE ECAT-X. buy one today,we’ll ship it within 24 hours.” ha AhHa: fat chance.

  • Stephen Taylor

    And drop in a hundred pound tea bag.

  • Alan DeAngelis
  • Anon2012_2014

    For me, I am waiting for something from Rossi that is substantive. Yeah sure, I’d like a flying LENR car too. But I want to see and feel the excess heat first in a laboratory I can actually visit. I wish him well but I am stuck waiting for Godot.

    • Charles Davis

      Give Rossi a break, he is a scientist becoming an entrepreneur! Keep in mind he is accomplishing something that no one else could!

  • Anon2012_2014

    “is it fair to say that E-Cat is close to production?” No. Any reasonable new invention would show a demonstration prototype well before the production stage. The four stroke engine for example took 14 years from first invention before it was commercialized. We have yet to see a strong third party validation of commercially useful excess heat from a prototype, let alone a production prototype of something actually useful (i.e. a space heater, an electric generator, a light, or a mechanical engine).

  • LarryJ

    It might well be on the verge of production. We finished a one year 1MW reactor test almost two years ago but a litigation brought everything to a hault for 16 months. According to the Expert Responsible for Verification (ERV), a very credible nuclear physicist, the test was a complete success averaging a COP of 80 over the one year test, an absolutely astounding result. He only needed cop 6 to satisfy the contract. There will always be naysayers but my money is on that nuclear physicist not the clowns IH had slagging it.

    Industrial heat refused to pay up but a lawsuit brought by Rossi resulted in his recovering all of his IP, licences and the 1MW reactor built and owned by Industrial Heat. IH held him back for years so they could sell paper. Now he finally owns the Ecat again and I think he’s gettin ready to rock and roll.

    It is clear that Rossi has the real deal. Here’s the joke and with the ERV he just added one more.

    “The lineup of experts Rossi has fooled has become embarassingly long”

  • Jack

    Sooooo if you are no expert, don’t share your feelings with no good arguments to back it up.

    To adress your issue more clearly, the thermodynamic behind a jet engine is based on the Brayton cycle. Doing the analysis around that cycle show that to produce work you just need to add up some heat to the flow at ~constant and high pressure. The higher the pressure, the higher the efficency of the cycle (note that in the ideal cycle the efficency only depends on the pressure ratio between that of the intake and that were the heat is added). Consider also that at some point in the sixties, the US build some prototype of nuclear jet engine substituting the combustion to a heat exchanger (pressure loss of around 0.91 compared to 0.95 for a classic jet engine combustor) heated by nuclear fission (see HTRE-3 (the wikipedia and US report about that)).

  • Varmlandstok

    What fuel does is that it feeds the engine with heat.

  • Steve Swatman

    I wonder how small a “Supercritical Co2 generator” could be made, I suspect that one run by Qx’s would easily fit into a standard automobile engine bay, would run continuously and provide feedback power onto the grid when not been used.

    • Piper

      50 mm single stage turbine, 10 kW output, with 15% efficiency?

  • Jag bara undrar?

    ABB will build a electric engine using the magnetic fields from the “Cats”

  • attaboy

    I take it that your comment has reference to Rossi coming under pressure from selected forces that he fears going forward. Certainly our USA government isn’t going to jump in and give him a hand because ultimately its controlled by the blood sucking corporate robber barons who have the most to lose if Rossi succeeds. Perhaps Rossi has been forced into a kind of waiting game, waiting for the Robber barons to gain the upper hand before ecat can go forward.

  • attaboy

    Its nice when you can insert a little humor to help get your point across. Kudos to you.

  • Sean

    I agree but both the Brits an the Germans worked closely and sometimes simultaneously together on many engineering projects. Frank Whittle was credited with inventing the turbo jet engine. Dr. Hans-Joachim Pabst von Ohain is credited as the designer of the first operational jet engine. Also they knew each other. Frank Whittle applied for his patent in 1930. And as you say Ohain ran his engine in March 1937 before Whittle in April 1937. But both inventors were preceded by Maxime Guillaume whom held a French patent for a turbojet engine in 1921.(More a concept than a realistic engine.) References: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Ohain
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Whittle
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxime_Guillaume
    Also I have read over my article above that you made reference to. I did not infer any reference to credit Frank Whittle as the first operational jet engine. However I only mentioned frank Whittle as it relates to my Father as my Father was a design drafts-man in those early days. I also know that the design did not end there and advancements in metallurgy and production processes have advanced since then. Perhaps I should mention that Rossi would have liked to talk to Dr. Hans-Joachim Pabst von Ohain as well as Frank Whittle. P.S. there are many top German engineers working for Rolls Royce. We could not have gone to the moon without Wernher von Braun. I am sure Wernher von Braun would have use for the ECAT if he were alive today. Cheers.

  • willgh

    November is A.R. last chance to show the truth. If he fails again, the story is over.
    People will say he has lost it’s mind. There is no next year waiting for the next model coupled with whatever. I Can’t imagine that anybody will fund him then.

    • LarryJ

      I think you would first have to see why he postponed. To say as you do that a delay for any reason spells the end of Rossi makes little sense. What if a family member died days before the test. Is that the end of Rossi? Anyway, Rossi could care less about public opinion. He’ll do it his way.

      • Jas

        Seems strange that someone who is constantly bragging about how great his invention is on the JONP could care less about public opinion.

        • LarryJ

          Getting info from Rossi is like pulling teeth. Calling him a braggart is another exaggeration.

          • Jas

            Do you read the JONP?

          • LarryJ

            I read and I post. Here’s an article I wrote for JONP on May 17 2012. Check it out. Turns out I was way too conservative.

            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=619&cpage=2#comment-234294

            People who call Rossi a braggart in my opinion are just whiners who for the most part can’t even manage the effort to backup their comments except with one line generalizations and a healthy dose of slagging. Here we have Rossi fighting a monumental battle to bring us a paradigm shifting technology while so many “do nothing” armchair quarterbacks in the peanut gallery just whine about, oh he promised us this and he promised us that, boo hoo hoo.

            Unlike most of us Rossi is actually trying to change the world and given the hurdles he has had to jump and the battles he has had to fight his progress is absolutely astounding. I suppose you think its a quirk of fate with absolutely no justification that everybody talks about Rossi, the lying exaggerator and nobody else. Well think again. Maybe, just maybe, it’s because he’s got the goods.

            Funny how nobody even mentions how IH owned his IP and held held him up for 5 years by delaying the one year test and then, despite a dramatically successful 1 year test of the 1 MW reactor, as declared by the approved by both sides Expert Responsible for Validation (ERV), the whiners still say “Oh Rossi is such a liar, he never delivers”. Is it any wonder he could care less about public opinion? Public opinion is obviously meaningless where judging reality or progress is concerned.

            Whether you believe it or I believe it matters not one whit to Rossi. He believes it and he believes he is on a mission from his god to make this happen and he will deliver. If you give up and stop watching the so called braggart I don’t think the course of history will change one iota.

            The lineup of experts Rossi has fooled has become embarrassingly long.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            However Rossi’s instance on keeping everything so “close” to his chest so to speak is a troubling aspect of Rossi. It just the way he operates but that of course keeps doubters and believers handing on by a tread. And this whole process may well be Rossi’s intention.

            If Rossi has the goods, then I see no reason why he will not prevail.

            At the end of the day, we have less than ideal proof of how well what Rossi has works. This is a “worry”. I think at this point that very little doubt should exist – but doubts do linger.

            I would accept that time is running out for Rossi – he has to deliver something rather solid soon, or this process will simply linger on, and I feel no reason exists for this “lingering” process.

            The more the lingering, the less credibility Rossi has. At this point in time, such obfuscation by Rossi does not make sense.

            So, this whole process is troubling.

            And again, I think the “partnerships” with Rossi to manufacture or fund the e-cat is a big deal.

            I just find it rather hard to accept that any industrial partner would not go full 100% on board after seeing and testing an e-cat device. The fact that this has not occurred means IH job was to slow down Rossi, or Rossi did not deliver.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Jas

            I didnt call Rossi a Braggart. I said he brags. There is a difference. I dont slag him off. I am not a detractor.
            You seem to have misunderstood me.
            What I was trying to say is that Rossi uses his JONP to promote his invention and he often says things like “things are going well” and “we have made great progress today”. He has said in the past that his invention “is a masterpiece”.

    • roseland67

      willgh,

      Welcome to the dark side

  • George N

    Why? How bout just focus on charging batteries?

  • Pietro F.

    Ecat 1mw 4 years and then nothing;
    Ecatx 3 years and then probably nothing !!
    Ecatx engine, how old are you?

    I’m beginning to have doubts

    Pietro F.

  • Gerard McEk

    For transportation a stirling motor principle is no good. It has too much weight and is bulky for high powers. I would go for a closed loop jet with CO2. Can be very compact, high speed and therefore high density heat to electricity conversion, ideal for transport.
    Stirling based electricity/heat production is perfect for domestic and maybe industrial purposes in a static environment.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Closed loop requires a heat exchanger that may not be practical for a vehicle. An open loop jet uses air as the cold source and might be more compact. I recall that Lear tried to build a steam powered car, but abandoned the effort after the heat exchanger for a closed loop system got too large.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      It is less then ideal. However, a sterling engine combined with a electric car is a possibility.

      Here is such a example:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-MT2-aYb3I

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • roseland67

    Nice

  • Sean

    I had made an earlier post about using ECAT for the use in a Jet Engine. I have it from the horses mouth that it will surely work as a normal jet engine after you initially start up the compressor blades spinning N1 & N2 and instead of the fuel and the igniter system, you would need to introduce the ECAT heat around a specific RPM. This would require heat on demand almost at an instant. So some sort of method would need to be developed for fast on and off heat. There may be other ideas out there but its worth pursuing. On the subject of Jet Engines, I have a link here that has the time line of its development starting from 1791 / present. By looking at the timeline to the present day while sitting at 45 thousand feet reading E-catworld in the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, I no longer question the time it will take for the development of LENR. Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_jet_power

  • Omega Z

    Rossi only needs to build a dependable heat engine. Adapting it to specific use will be left to others with expertise in various fields. Intel primarily designed and manufactured chips that everyone else adapted to their product. When the need arose, Intel designed variants to fit manufactures needs/footprint.

    • Vinney

      I think he wants to see what sort of reactor he would have to design and create to fulfill the energy requirement for a relatively lightweight automobile or jet engine.
      Rossi has worked best under strict financial, technical and engineering parameters.
      Meeting these additional needs may alter the E-Cat for the better, and increase his patent haul.
      It may also be to ‘spoil’ the financing potential of BLP whose device seems to designed for portable and transport use (albeit not as small as the Ecat-QX).
      Any investor in this new technology would then need to look no further than Leonardo Corporation.

  • Omega Z

    Nuclear power engines were designed 60 years ago by both the U.S. and Russia. The heat expands the compressed air which is primarily how jet engines work.

    Google it: Aircraft Nuclear Propulsion

  • Omega Z

    Rossi is not going to build all the products himself. He will merely provide the heat engine for others to do so. Your car will have a label, A tiger in place of the tank.

  • Martin Lund

    I feel the same. I’ve been following this for a long, long, long time too. No matter how much I want it to be true it is certainly still possible that Rossi is a con man. The proof will be in the pudding as they say but the pudding has almost dried out and there is not much left at this point.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    “[A year] sounds extremely ambitious. For many years Rossi has stated that it
    would take decades to get the E-Cat approved for working for
    automobiles.”
    I don’t see it as a contradiction. One is a prototype, the other a product certified for consumer market.

  • CWatters

    By the time Rossi has a working prototype for a car, electric cars will have improved enormously and make it obsolete.

    • Omega Z

      I don’t see electric cars improving much for a long time. The only visible improvements to date is piling on more batteries at ever greater cost. Tesla is already nearing the null point in this matter where they will soon need to add battery capacity just to haul the batteries.

    • Charles Davis

      You’ve got to be kidding me! Batteries are toxic, heavy and expensive! Ecat can replace the batteries in the electric car and eliminate range anxiety and fuel costs or drive a turbine to replace the electric motor! If you own stock in batteries, solar, wind power or oil I suggest dumping them while you still can!

  • Charles Davis

    Read his website!

  • Rene

    Charles, how many kilowatts of high temp heat is needed to run a car at similar acceleration and top speeds of a midsize sedan? Then determine the efficiency, the input KW, the radiator size, turbine size, and e-cat size. It’s a good thought experiment.