Rossi Announces E-Cat QX Presentation for November 24 (Update #4 – Presentation Stream 12:00 pm Miami Time on Ecat.com)

Andrea Rossi has announced the date of the E-Cat QX Presentation on the Journal of Nuclear Physics.

Andrea Rossi
November 6, 2017 at 6:44 PM
Pal:
The date will be November 24th.
The time will be 4 P.M. Miami time.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

No exact location is provided yet. For US residents, this is the Friday after the Thanksgiving holiday (aka Black Friday), so many people will be off work. Should be a busy time here on E-Cat World!

UPDATE: (Nov 7, 2017)

Andrea Rossi has deleted the time of the demo from the post above. It no longer states 4 P.M. Miami time.

There is a new Q&A on the JONP about it.

Jack
November 7, 2017 at 8:54 AM
Dear Dr Andrea Rossi:
You published the date of the test (Nov 24th), but not the time.
Cheers
Jack

Andrea Rossi
November 7, 2017 at 8:57 AM
Jack:
It will be published soon.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I guess they must still be working out the exact schedule.

UPDATE: (Nov 7, 2017)

Here’s a bit of new information from Andrea Rossi about the video streaming of the test:

Albert Ellul
November 8, 2017 at 7:46 AM
Dear Andrea Rossi,

Congratulations on your achievements so far.

Is there a link available for viewing the demo online and in real time when the demo is in progress?

Andrea Rossi
November 8, 2017 at 8:16 AM
Albert Ellul:
No, the streaming will be delayed several hours.
Thank you for your attention to our work,
Warm Regards,
A.R.

So the video streaming will not be broadcast live; there will be a delay between the event itself and the time that the video of the event will be made available to the general public. A possible source of frustration, I expect, but probably only for a short time.

UPDATE #3: (Nov 11, 2017)

Some interesting snippets from AR on the JoNP:

Brokeeper

Dear Andrea,

Congratulations to you and your team on this world changing achievement! This will certainly accentuate the E-Cat QX portfolio of attributes at the presentation.

If you are at liberty to answer, during the demonstration:
1. Will there be representatives from any of the top Fortune 100 companies present? AR: Yes
2. Will you also demonstrate its direct electrical capabilities? AR: No
3. Because visual effects enhances ones impressions, will any work output be performed? AR: Water Heating
(Boiling water or small heat engine driving a mechanical apparatus, a small generator
for light, miniature hot air balloons hovering over unsuspected observers :), etc.)
Thank you.
God bless you and your team,
Brokeeper

Frank Acland
November 11, 2017 at 9:20 AM
Dear Andrea,

Congratulations on achieving Sigma 5 which has been an important goal for you over the last year.

What does this mean for the commercialization of the E-Cat?

Andrea Rossi
November 11, 2017 at 1:10 PM
Frank Acland:
Means that our next efforts will go mainly to the industrialization phase.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

With Sigma 5 accomplished, it seems that the focus is now moving to developing commercial relationships which will be needed if AR’s mass production goals are to be realized. The timing of the test seems good and it hardly seems surprising that he would be inviting representatives from industry to the demonstration. Pressure will be high, but it could be a very important event for the E-Cat’s commercial prospects.

UPDATE #3: (Nov 11, 2017)

We now have a time and a web location to see the E-Cat presentation. Andrea Rossi posted this on the Journal of Nuclear Physics today:

Andrea Rossi
November 13, 2017 at 10:55 AM
Gian Luca and All Readers:
The streaming of the demonstration of the E-Cat QX will start around noon (12 P.M.) of November 24th, Miami time.
It will be available on
http://www.ecat.com
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • EEStorFanFibb

    well hot dog!

  • Nixter

    This presentation will be a pivotal event for Dr Rossi, it is feast or fail, he has burned bridges and squandered many opportunities over the years, many of his avid followers have abandoned him in the wake of his past demonstrations and their many shortcomings. If he fails to provide robust evidence of a working LENR reaction as promised, I think it safe to say that he will not be taken seriously again in the future. Many if not all of his prior demonstrations have ended up being an exercise in frustration and obfuscation. He may indeed have something of merit because there are multiple avenues of research that apparently owe their origins to Rossi’s claims of excess energy, which in turn were spurred by the original Pons and Fleischman findings, or claims. A demo that falls flat could have negative reverberations throughout the LENR field, however, a success will have the opposite effect, it may spark interest from the sceptical establishment players who have been loudly proclaiming it to be impossible. Dr Rossi has reached the “put-up or shut-up.” stage. This will be his last chance to present to a wide audience that will be able to still take him seriously. Normally, most of us would not have invested our time and energy into following such an unlikely development, but because a success would be so world shaking and profound, it was worth waiting and watching. Soon we will discover if Dr Rossi has been wasting our time, or if he was right, and he has ushered in a new era of cheap abundant energy that will change the world.

    • Paul Harmans

      Well said!

    • Bruce Williams

      An excellent summary!

    • georgehants

      Nixter Spot-on observation of the situation for many of us.
      In my case I have very little interest in Rossi’s hundred year plan to become rich, but a genuine convincing demonstration will bring thousands of scientists into the fray and from that, hopefully, some benefit to the people most in need will emerge.
      Nothing will ever take away from Rossi his brilliant work following on from P&F (if genuine), but he has lost any chance of being admired for his rush to share his work for the good of people or the World, that it seems will be left for others to achieve.

    • pg

      Most of us can relate to your post.

    • Varmlandstok

      We can guess that he understands this and the people that he works with.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Lot depends on who his “partner” is, and of course on clear success of test.

    • Frank Acland

      Maybe it will be the last chance to attract or keep the attention of internet followers, but I think the tests that Rossi is running in private are probably far more consequential for the future of the E-Cat than a public demo. So I would not consider this the last chance for Rossi in terms of developing the E-Cat.

    • MorganMck

      I think you are mostly correct Nixter; however, if Rossi really wanted to convince the world he had something, he would select a qualified, respected and independent third-party to perform well designed black-box tests and never even enter the building in which they were being performed. Instead, he is conducting the tests with his own setup, protocols, equipment and invitees. Gee what could go wrong and how could anyone ever question the veracity of such demos? Yet, I think he is psychologically incapable of doing this any other way (combo of ego mania and paranoia).

      • US_Citizen71

        Depends what the demo is. If he were to boil a gallon of water with only the power of 3 9 volt batteries that would be convincing. We will have to wait and see.

        • Frank Acland

          Rossi has said there would be no phase change in the water heated, so I think we can count out boiling.

          • US_Citizen71

            Ok so only heat it to 98C. 🙂 But truly I wasn’t trying to be literal, just giving a hypothetical example.. I am waiting to see what the demo is before I jump to conclusions. I hope for the best, but like many I’m not sure my interest will be maintained if this demo is inconclusive. I think Rossi is smart enough to understand that this demonstration needs to be conclusive as possible or he may get passed by his rivals in the end. As this will be the first public demonstration since he has received patent protection I have a good feeling that it will be a good one.

          • Frank Acland

            I agree. Personally, I’m not expecting to lose interest, but I am hoping with this demo that lessons from the past will be applied, and the amount of uncertainty reduced.

          • kenko1

            It just hit me. That is what the demo is going to be! Gather all the attendees. Take them outside to a picnic table far away from any energy source on beautiful Miami Beach and brew freshly prepared E-catX tea ! (and biscuits of course). It should take about two hours to do that. Wouldn’t that be a hoot!

          • Frank Acland

            Yes 🙂

          • kenko1

            I hope for the best too. Good luck and have fun.

          • kenko1

            I’m not a tea drinker,but from what I understand in its preparation, the water is not supposed to be boiling. Maybe y’all will get your E-cat cup of tea! Prepared properly! O;)))

    • LarryJ

      It may be his last chance with you and a few others but that’s all. I doubt your frustration will play even a tiny role. Succeed or fail I will certainly continue to follow his progress with great interest. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

  • I don’t know what you expect from this event.
    But I’m sure that we will not hear anything about this “demo” outside the “LENR community”.

    No mainstream media reports and no impact on the markets.

    This is just another Rossi-demo which will leave us again without any 100% confident result.

    • LarryJ

      There is no possibility at all of a 100% confident result. Regardless of the results the detractors will loudly detract it and the supporters will loudly support it just like all the previous demos/tests. The only 100% confident result will be the one you do yourself with your new Leonardo space heater you bought at Home Depot. Some things require a certain amount of faith and belief in the persons involved. If you don’t have that then it will never be real until you test it yourself. For me, Rossi always has delivered in the past and I expect he will deliver again so It will be a fun day for sure.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi’s 1st demo since 2012 and the very 1st demo of Rossi’s own volition without some elses coercion. That alone makes it notable.

  • Paul Harmans

    Roseland,
    Don’t you think it’s time for robust evidence of an LENR reaction?
    Come on Dr. Rossi, this is your last chance!

    • roseland67

      Paul,
      What I think does not matter,
      and will most probably be censored.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    The day after Thanksgiving, NYSE and NASDAQ will close at 1:00 pm EST – three hours before the demonstration starts. European markets will close a few hours after the start, so it is uncertain if they could serve as an indicator.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Sorry, correction: The European markets will close (about) at the time when the demonstration starts. Thus, we will anyway have to wait until Monday.

  • Gerard McEk

    As I said before, ‘it would be a miracle if the demo would take place before the 30st of November’. It now seems to happen, a miracle!
    I know, a few of us will be there and we will be informed thoroughly, I am sure. I have not heard yet that MFMP is invited. I still hope Andrea will.

    This is a long awaited moment for all Andrea’s followers. Nearly 2 years ago Andrea revealed some details of his E-catX: It produced 20 kW, 10% of it can be direct electricity, 20% light and the rest heat, if I remember well. (Unfortunately I can’t check it anymore on your site, Frank. Is the database still intact?) Also he briefly mentioned thrust later on. We will only see heat, I guess. The rest, Andrea says, is not efficiently produced. To make it stable he reduced the E-catX to nearly a needle size: The QuarkX, 20 W output. Three of them in a cluster will be demonstrated. I do hope Andrea will allow for a proper demonstration and that we do not only have to rely on ‘credentials, trust and what you see is what you get’. Andrea and his partners should allow for suggestions from his audience and try to fulfill them.

    A proper demonstration will give Andrea a flying start for his E-cat QX. If the world has to wait until the first customer publishes the energy figures, it will take many more years before high scale demand for the QX takes off. So please Andrea, do it properly!

  • sam

    Brokeeper
    November 6, 2017 at 10:00 PM
    Dear Andrea,

    1. Will any mainstream media be represented at the presentation?
    2. Will a projected commercial release date be announced at the presentation? It could
    validate your commitment to E-Cat QX industrialization.
    With a final presentation date now set anticipation is building – without an F8!
    Very Best Wishes,
    Brokeeper

    Andrea Rossi
    November 7, 2017 at 7:46 AM
    Brokeeper:
    1- I do not know
    2- not yet
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Brokeeper

      Since there are 40 attending thus invited, I’m guessing the media had not yet responded.

  • sam

    Maybe he chose Friday so they
    can party on the weekend if the
    tests are positive.He He He

  • Vinney

    Rossi works at his own speed, and cannot be blamed for billions ‘bet’ on the wrong technologies. He is trying hard to solve all the problems and get it to market, and still make some money.
    I suggested he create a company that LENR believers can invest in, without risking his E-cat IP or trade secrets.
    And that is in the company that sells heat in the industrial marketplace.
    Investors could buy in on the strength of the figures of a few pilot plants in operation.
    These plant are in facilities that have trained personnel and are secure and confidentiality is assured (customer wise).
    The investors funds are used to further develop the technology, and gain market share, eventually even in power stations. His IP and trade secrets are protected by 24/7 online controls and even 25/7 security personnel onsite.
    Investors get returns both on the profitability of the company and the growth in the value of their shares, and both are ‘mutually exclusive’ of E-cat developments, IP and trade secrets.
    This is a legitimate way of gaining the millions he needs to setup ‘robotized’ plants and without giving away ownership of his intellectual property.

  • Frank Acland

    Rossi has deleted the time from his original post. He now says the time will be announced later.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Thank you for reinstalling the „Recent comments“ section! It saves a lot of time (and bytes).

    • georgehants

      O’dear well it must be very difficult to give an exact year for the demonstration and I am sure all those invited can rearange their travel etc. plans without any problems.

      • Frank Acland

        The date has not changed, just the time of day has been deleted.

        • georgehants

          So sorry, my mistake, please delete my comment.

      • Brokeeper

        There you go again George, jumping to conclusions. 🙂

        • georgehants

          Please do not exaggerate,my mistake and I have apologised immediately.
          Lets see a few others apologising when they make mistakes like the one you have just made.

          • Brokeeper

            Just a friendly rib.

          • georgehants

            Brokeeper, accepted.
            Best

  • Brokeeper

    The square wheel workers union?

  • Frank Acland

    From what AR has said, it seems he feel it is a good time to share with the general public what the E-Cat QX is, and what it can do.

    • HS61AF91

      As you pointed out above, this is a prelude to what follows, as in ” … our next efforts will go mainly to the industrialization phase. … ” by sharing the demonstration. I am amazed at the reserved, non-endorsable, attitude of comments that abound. Get ready for a steaming blast of publicity, and an announcement of big league participation in this phase. In my humble opinion of course.

  • skywalkerzs

    Just a friendly rib.

  • alleyCat

    If the demo starts at 4pm, then it probably is not intended to last very long, decreasing its believability even more than already.

    • LarryJ

      Or possibly it’s a good time for people to attend. Rossi has already said the demo will last around two hours. I would suggest you skip the whole thing. Sounds like a colossal waste of your valuable time.

  • Alain Samoun

    Friday afternoon and all the worries just float into the air
    We’re going to our secret spot and no one else knows how to get there
    The words just poured out of you like a melody ah huh
    I just could not believe the things you’re telling me ah huh

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjlP8mK8KpA

  • Frechette

    “correctly as it turned out” No pun intended I presume.

  • Frank Acland

    Rossi suggests that rather than this being the last chance, it may be the first of many such presentations.

    Frank Acland
    November 7, 2017 at 8:13 AM
    Dear Andrea,

    Do you think the Nov 24th demo is the last chance for the E-Cat?

    Andrea Rossi
    November 7, 2017 at 8:50 AM
    Frank Acland:
    I do not see how a demo could be a “last chance”!
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Svein Henrik
    November 7, 2017 at 11:20 AM
    Dear Andrea.

    I do agree in your answer to Frank Aucland. As Sigma 5 seems to be the basis for the E-Cat/QuarkX to be presented as a useful product, the demo in the 24th seems more to be your first chance to make a presentation.

    Andrea Rossi
    November 7, 2017 at 2:21 PM
    Svein Henrik:
    Exactly! We will have many eventual chances to make demos around the world.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Gerard McEk

    LENR for climate and peace!
    The upcoming demonstration of the E-cat QX could be the prelude for the rise of LENR.

    You all know that the US is the only country in the world that does not want to participate and do something about the climate change. Trump is making the US a selfish parasite.

    However, there remains a lifeline for the Trump administration to stay credible to the rest of the world: Just promote and develop LENR! Help Rossi and others to put this on the market and it will probably have more effect that anything the rest of the world may think of.

    Whether or not CO2 is the cause of the climate change, for the sake of the stability of the world, a new, clean and abundant energy source is needed and LENR can do that. So Donald, democrats and republicans unite, look what Andrea Rossi will demonstrate on 11/24 and follow his route to The New Fire!

    PS. It’s good for the US (and the rest of the world).

    • AdrianAshfield

      It’s pretty obvious now that the warming effect of CO2 has been exaggerated.
      Saving billions of dollars on renewable energy is one of the few good things this government has done.

    • Rene

      Trump is actively promoting coal, actively trying to dismantle renewables. LENR, if real and practical, would kill coal miner jobs, so it too (under his way of thinking) needs to go.

      • HS61AF91

        Let robots make E-Cat/QuarkXes in the coal mines, and the miners tend, replace, organize, sell, and promote the little ‘devils’ making so much heat. (kidding of course)
        When polls indicate a positive attitude to E-Cat use, the Pres will also. That is why demos, successful demos that generate orders and money to produce, are so very important.

  • tlp

    There will be a web conference just after the demo in Italian language:
    http://www.ecat-ilnuovofuoco.it/blog/web-conference-con-andrea-rossi/

    More or less anyone can attend who can speak Italian, though they select 24.

    • Vinney

      Well, the interviewer and conference call moderator, did write the book, ‘The New Fire’.
      I am sure Frank Acland and Mats Lewan will be extended the same courtesy a few hours later.

  • Alan Smith

    TRIP To DEMO – THANK YOU ALL.

    My thanks to those members of LENR-Forum and ECW ( and lurkers) who have donated so generously (and unexpectedly) toward the cost of my trip to the Andrea Rossi show on the 24th. I am most grateful, and am now in a position to say ‘no more!’ The hotel and travel bill is covered – I am happy to eat at my own expense as always. The demo is (hopefully) going to be livestreamed as it happens, but whatever, I will try to file some kind of report ASAP after the show -which I guess will then segue into dinner. There is unlikely to be WiFi available to all at the venue itself so it will have to wait until I get back to my hotel. I expect to produce a more considered write-up shortly after the day.

    • Frank Acland

      That’s great, Alan!

      • sam

        Are you going Frank?

        • Frank Acland

          Likely I won’t be able to be there in person, unfortunately, but arrangements are in place to have ECW full coverage from the test location. I have very good help there, and between I hope we can provide useful information for readers here. I am sure combined with the coverage from others we won’t miss too much of what is important.

          • Omega Z

            Probably Nov. 24th does not work for you being the day after Thanksgiving(family day)?
            Also Black Friday.

            Do you know if Mats Lewan is going.

          • Frank Acland

            It was just a particularly bad date, as I had already made commitments that couldn’t be changed. I certainly won’t be going shopping though.

          • Frank Acland

            I can’t speak for Mats, but I am sure he has been invited.

          • georgehants

            Frank, that is sad, after all these years covering Rossi’s Cold Fusion to miss meeting him and other Cold Fusion guys and see the demo.

          • Frank Acland

            It’s okay George. Probably the arrangements we have made for coverage will be better than if it was just me anyway. Someone needs to handle the website during the event, so be anchoring the event from ECW Tower and be free to concentrate on one thing while someone else can handle the other necessities.

          • georgehants

            Understood, please see my e-mail, just sent.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Brialliant news Alan!

    • psi2u2

      Wonderful to have you going, Alan. Were my pockets deeper, I would have been among those donating as well. So I donate you instead my words of thanks and encouragement. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated.

    • Rene

      Take good vids since the livestream is now to be delayed by several hours which means the extended audience will not be able to participate in Q&A. And there is plenty of LTE available in the area if WiFi is not present.

      • Alan Smith

        Will do my best, Rene.

  • sam

    Italo R.
    November 7, 2017 at 6:03 PM
    Dear Dr. Rossi, you have written that the demo attendees will not meet your new partner.
    I suppose then that there will be separate demos or visits for attendees and your partner. Is it correct?
    We can not wait for that date!
    Kind regards
    Italo R.

    Andrea Rossi
    November 7, 2017 at 8:44 PM
    Italo R.:
    Our Partner doesn’t need to see a demo: he already did.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Translate
    Anonymous
    November 7, 2017 at 6:04 PM
    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    Will the attendance of your demo be international?

    Andrea Rossi
    November 7, 2017 at 8:42 PM
    Anonymous:
    Yes, we’ll host Professors and professionals from North and South America, Europe, Asia, Australia, Africa.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Frank Acland

    There won’t be a real-time livestream of the event apparently:

    November 8, 2017 at 7:46 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi,

    Congratulations on your achievements so far.

    Is there a link available for viewing the demo online and in real time when the demo is in progress?

    Andrea Rossi
    November 8, 2017 at 8:16 AM
    Albert Ellul:
    No, the streaming will be delayed several hours.
    Thank you for your attention to our work,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • sam

      A.R. Was asked by Gerard if media invited.

      Andrea Rossi
      November 8, 2017 at 8:18 AM
      Gerard McEk:
      I did not invite them.
      Thank you for your kindness,
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Andrea Rossi November 8, 2017 at 8:18 AM
    JPR:
    We are in the homestretch.
    Still very well, today another important test.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

  • hunfgerh

    E-Cat-QX; black magic?

    No, it’s only a question of construction and material !

    With the right material and construction, the secret of the E-Cat QX can be
    solved on the basis of the intermediate level physical knowledge. Which also includes:

    A flowing current creates a magnetic field around a conductor
    A changing magnetic field around a conductor creates a flowing current in the
    conductor.
    On this facts based also a transformer.

    Is the primary side of a transformer a normal conductor – which is coated with
    a thin superconducting layer (hydridic type) – and the secondary side of a normal
    conductor. Thus one makes the following observations depending on the
    current density (Primary side):

    1. At low current density: Current flow on the secondary side
    Cause: Magnetic field on the primary side

    2. At high current density: Current flow on the secondary side
    Cause: Magnetic field on the Primary side
    + Generation of heat (Primary side);
    Cause: e- / n-capture in the superconducting layer *
    + Generation of light
    Cause: Hole repair after e-capture / radiation of energy after
    n-capture (fusion)

    The sequence of these principles would logically explain the result of an
    E-Cat QX! However, the existence of the necessary superconductor in the E-Cat QX is
    denied. Understandable, the opposite could have significant patent law consequences.

    * trilogy

    – High Current Densities; Enviromental Conditions for “Cold Fusion” (Gerhard Hunf)
    – E-Capture (Gerhard Hunf)
    – The final Result of “E-capture” (Gerhard Hunf)

  • artefact

    Alan Smith on lenr-forum: “it now seems there will be as many 70 people [at the demo]”
    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/4645-rossi-blog-comment-discussion/?postID=73726#post73726

  • sam

    Rodney Nicholson
    November 8, 2017 at 4:10 PM
    Dear Andrea:

    I was surprised to hear it has been decided not to invite representatives of at least a few of the main-stream media to your 24th November presentation. Presumably the presentation’s purpose is to reveal some of your most recent innovations to a wider audience. Many of your fans reading this blog have been surprised and disappointed, given the truly astonishing implications of your discoveries, that they are not being discussed in the news media on a daily basis. (For a start it would be nice to read some good news occasionally, interspersed within the regular torrent of bad news.)

    Is there a reason you do not seem to want to bring awareness of your progress to the entire world?

    Rodney Nicholson.

    Andrea Rossi
    November 8, 2017 at 4:57 PM
    Rodney Nicholson:
    That will be proper when we will launch the product massively.
    Now it is premature.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • tlp

    Maybe it is in Sweden after all?

  • Engineer48
    • artefact

      If you can understand Italian…

      • Engineer48

        Google will do translate.

      • georgehants

        Rossi seems to be able to understand English perfectly well on his JONP and to be able to reply perfectly well, he is demonstrating in an English speaking country, English is the language of science, It would seem that most of the audience will be English speakers and very few Italian, why Italian.

        • Frank Acland

          I think this is a special event organized by Vessela (who lives in Italy) for an Italian audience. It’s separate from the conference, will take place after it is over. I think it’s a good idea, gives Rossi a chance to speak in his native tongue for a change. Once he said when he speaks English he speaks in black and white, in Italian he speaks in colour.

          • georgehants

            I which case once again my apologises, as you know my whole concern is to get Rossi’s Cold Fusion discovery (if genuine) out to start helping those that need it most and I forgive myself for being impatient as time costs lives.
            Best

    • Engineer48

      Apology, old news.

    • Gerard McEk

      E48, are you also invited to the demonstration?

      • Vinney

        Rossi has mentioned that there will be attendees from Australia, I believe Roger Green is still interested in the E-cat franchise even though he closed the company ‘Ecat Australia’ for reasons of limiting his liability to other licensees that he signed up to the Ecat technology around the world.
        He specialially prized his partnership in the Japanese and Indian franchise.

  • Gerard McEk

    It is nice that Mats Lewan organizes the demonstration. That gives me hope that the demonstration may be more convincing.

    • LION

      Hi Gerard McEk, likewise I was very heartened by this news as I have great respect for Mats. As a long time supporter of Andrea Rossi I wish him every success. I don’t see the LENR field as a VHS-Betamax war type situation, if one succeeds, ( we ) ie the whole LENR community ,succeeds.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Andrea Rossi
    November 9, 2017 at 6:49 AM
    JPR:
    We are proceeding with a series of final tests.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

  • Bob Greenyer

    I know that at least 4 different people have asked Rossi about MFMP participation in the test.

    We have been told that there is no desire to see MFMP representation there, perhaps it is a complement?

    As implied in Ryan’s letter, we hope that the test is credible and wish him well.

    • Rene

      So, MFMP will not be at the presentation, and the live stream is canceled, replaced by a multi hour delayed feed. This is not a good trajectory. Will participants be able to comment live or take footage or photos?

      • Frank Acland

        Yes, I believe so.

      • Anon2012_2014

        Will the feed be edited? By whom and why?

        • Frank Acland

          Yrka
          November 9, 2017 at 11:58 AM
          Dear Dr. Andrea Rossi.

          I started the countdown to the beginning of the presentation of the E-Cat QX!!!

          1. Previously promised live broadcast on the network will not be?
          2. Will the recording be edited?
          3. Will it be possible first to find out the address of the resource where the record will be posted?
          4. Please specify if the representatives of the scientific press are also not invited?
          If not, very sorry.
          5. You previously wrote about the presentation in the US and Sweden. When will Sweden?
          6. When do you plan commercial production?
          – Months?
          – Year?
          – Years?

          Andrea Rossi
          November 9, 2017 at 4:25 PM
          Yrka:
          1- the broadcast will be made, but delayed, not direct
          2- no
          3- we will give information where and when to find the streaming asap 4- some have been
          5- we will give this information soon
          6- as soon as possible
          Thank you for your kind wishes,
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.

          • Luca Meli

            Steam, dry or wet, but only steam…

          • Omega Z

            Temperature rise of water is the simplest to measure(The facts are well known). Water transition to steam can very according and to circumstances. Even pressure or lack there of and even altitude can effect this. Water going from 20`C to 90`C is straight forward and quite easy to very accurately calculate.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I think Alan will be able to take photos. I trust Alan to be a good ambassador for the wider community.

        • blanco69

          I’d just like to see a photo with Alan, Rossi and Engineer48 all in the same frame. 🙂

          • Bob Greenyer

            I understand Engineer48 was not invited either.

    • Axil Axil

      MFMP is a competitor to Rossi. You do not let the fox into the hen house.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I would suggest that we are a support to his claims, mostly inadvertently.

        I suppose the volunteer researchers can wear the rebuttal as a badge of honour.

      • Karl Venter

        But I thought Rossi has a Patent for his quark x
        why would he not let MFMP in
        They can copy it as much as they like they just not allowed to sell it
        MFMP is obviously onto something if Rossi does not want them there
        Keep up the good work MFMP
        I asked before
        What will be the rules of the demo?
        No cameras
        No recording devices
        No …….

        • tlp

          At least cameras are allowed. Alan Smith from lenr-forum is going, and said this.

          • Alan Smith

            That’s quite correct., I have official permission to take photographs, but obviously have no idea how easy this will be. – how close, how good the light will be etc are unknown at present.

          • tlp

            I hope you have, or you can borrow a modern dslr with good quality lenses. Then light should not be a problem.

          • Alan Smith

            I have a Canon 400D with a Sigma 200mm telephoto. But I have a very unobtrusive but capable ‘coolpix’ mini which might turn out to be more useful – for all sorts of reasons.

          • Alan Smith

            For those with an interest in these things The pocket camera is a 14Mp Nikon Coolpix 8000 with an f3.5 lens, 10X optical zoom, good video capability and a very fast imaging chip. This means I can (hopefully) avoid using the flash which would be very annoying for others, and maybe to AR too.

        • Axil Axil

          Rossi says that he has a few hundred patents outstanding.

          • Rene

            Perhaps he has those patents out standing in a pile on his desk, but the real question is whether those are filed patent applications. There are ways to obfuscate the origin and ownership of patents as well as their title. One of the painstaking tasks the attorneys on my team did was searching applications to ferret out such submarined applications. This is an interesting race, evidence notwithstanding. He could be first if that demo of his is clean and evidence robust.

            BTW, you cannot patent fire or LENR as those are natural processes, but you can patent LENR processes or specific means to achieve it. This is probably why me365 has gone silent. Last he said was he developed a process to induce LENR that is different than his guess of the Rossi claims.

    • Omega Z

      “there is no desire to see MFMP representation there”

      The reason behind this is simple. What you do and who you’ve been involved with makes you appear as a competitor. (Panitelli & Celani to name 2)

      • Bob Greenyer

        Piantelli and Celani both have patents pending – those patents are geared towards commercial goals. We have no patents.

        Could it be that we have seen through flaws in tests conducted by a range of researchers, including Lugano and Celani – though in these cases, the errors identified (wrong emissivity and incorrect input power determination respectively) did not remove all claimed excess heat, but brought them actually into the same ball park as the apparent excess we and others observed in real, 3rd party testing of the same systems.

        We only wish Rossi well. I have never written to Rossi, spoken with him or been in the same locality as him, Ryan, being the expert on battle tested flow calorimetry, would have been the right representative – not being on the ticket is something that would have made me comfortable with my own feelings on degrees of separation.

        If he for some reason does actually feel the MFMP is competition, should we take that as a complement? The actual aims of the MFMP is the same as it has always been, agreed at ICCF-17 in South Korea, and is stated here:

        http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/replicate-2

        Those that could not hold to those aims, had to move on.

        • Omega Z

          Your associations make you a possible competitor. Not saying I agree, but appearances matter from Rossi’s point of view. You’ve stated in the past that you would not sign a NDA and even though I think you keep some things to yourself(A necessity from a cooperation point of access) Rossi would be concerned that you may misspeak at least inadvertently. It’s a risk he chooses not to take. Considering his past experiences, I fully understand his point of view. He will error on the side of caution.

          • Bob Greenyer

            If invited, Ryan would be top of list to go
            70 people+ attending.
            If what you say was true, there is a phrase “better the devil you know”.

          • Omega Z

            “it is actually better we did not have to go.”

            It’s a no win for you unless you straight out said it didn’t work.

            Any positive feed back from you would put you square in the cross hairs of the skeptics. Perhaps I should say more in the cross hairs as they have already fired across you bow multiple times…

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes, exactly.

  • AdrianAshfield

    Look at the link I gave above your post. The models show about twice the warming actually measured.
    You don’t think that is exaggeration? Really?

    • John Williamson

      There certainly seems to be exaggeration somewhere. But the CMIP5 predictions in the graphs you linked to are not consistent with the CMIP5 predictions shown in the graphs at https://skepticalscience.com/factcheck-models-have-not-exaggerated-warming.html, where observed warming is well within the expected uncertainty range of the models.

      But whatever the case, *observed* warming is between .1 and .2 C per decade — an unprecedented gradient.

      @MorganMck: I’m really curious to see those projections that had Florida largely under water by now. Because I think *you’re* the one exaggerating. Predictions I’ve seen about the tipping point have been cautious: whether we’re past it now and in a hopeless state won’t be known by anyone living now. But is it wise to wait a few generations to discover the tipping was in the past before we take measures? That sounds like folly to me.

      It’s difficult to grasp the time scale of phenomena like this. The superficial seem to experience one cold day and scoff at climate change, or on the other extreme, look at a few hurricanes and predict immediate doom. More measured consideration is called for.

  • MorganMck

    Your kidding right? Past projections and claims had Florida largely under water by now and deemed our current state as past the tipping point of CO2 “pollution” leading to a hopeless state of global warming. Nearly all the models used by the IPCC projected temps well beyond 2 sigmas of what has actually occurred. Not exaggerated?

  • artefact

    Its 22:00 Stockholm time.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Even more obvious is that goose-stepping lemmings get personal when a dessenter speaks up.

  • Axil Axil

    What I would like to see included in the demo is the ability of the Quark reactor to produce light. Watching a few meters oscillate will be boring but seeing the naked Quark produce light that the eyes cannot cope would be a revelation and an indication that something unfathomable was going on inside that tiny transparent tube. It will also confuse the naysayers when a few milliwatts of power can drive a light source too bright to look at. Now that demo would be something to see.

    If there was some way to show the quark producing electric power with little or no input when the Quark is in self sustain mode. Now that would be something. If Rossi is any kind of showmen he will put the reactor through its paces and show what the Quark can really do, not just push around the hard to understand readings of some meters.

    Alas and alack the three reactor cluster that will be used in the demo does not hold the prospect of showing these quark wonders. They will be surrounded by insulation and a blanket of water hiding the true wonders that LENR can produce.

    • Gerard McEk

      I agree with you Axil, but as you say, it won’t happen.
      I guess Andrea must have found another way to convince his audience.
      I hope he invited some magicians too. They will be able to find the hidden rabbit (=battery).

      • Omega Z

        hidden rabbit (=battery).

        Yes, Rossi has a hearing aid battery that can power a car for 10,000 miles. It’s a fraud. Skeptics ignoring the fact that such a battery would be world changing in itself. Amazing right.

  • Gerard McEk

    Andrea Rossi
    November 10, 2017 at 1:18 PM
    JPR,
    I think we are reaching Sigma 5 tomorrow.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

    Who said it would be today?

    • tlp

      Somebody was quessing Nov 17, but 11.11 is perfect timing.

    • artefact

      “Andrea Rossi
      November 11, 2017 at 7:00 AM
      JPR:
      We reached Sigma 5.
      Now preparing for the demo.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.”

  • Karl Venter

    Does he not have a good patent?

    • Axil Axil

      All his pending patents must deal with LENR which is not patentable. Rossi needs to change that attitude for his LENR patents to be granted.

      • Omega Z

        True, LENR itself is not patentable, however certain processes and engineered designs and techniques are.

  • Karl Venter

    Hi Frank

    Have you spoken to Mats about the organizing of the event or is it under NDA

  • Bob Greenyer

    Rossi has had material support; at the fan, curiosity, critical, physical, intellectual, financial and even, to some degree, data level – in many cases relating to his claims aslo. With no support of any kind from day 1 till now, would you say he would be where he is?

    If he wanted nothing from the presentation, would he do it?

    The MFMP asked for no help from Rossi – that is not our role. We offered help on the 1st November via Ryan’s letter aimed at trying to make the test as credible as possible, which is something one might reasonably say, many people would like.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Honesty

  • Rene

    His patent (singular) is not a LENR patent, it is not an over unity patent. It is by its claims a below unity water heater. Go read the claims.

    • Omega Z

      There is no over unity involved anymore then an ICE vehicle. The energy comes from a supply of fuel. Just not of a conventional and understood source. I believe many things are possible even if not by others, But over unity as depicted by some is not one of them. You can’t get something from nothing. It can only be an improved efficiency or conversion from something.

      • Rene

        I’m referring to COP (energy out/energy in), which around here tends to be loosely called over-unity. Nowhere does the patent claim vast energies or energies greater than chemical. His patent is not LENR, not beyond chemical. It’s a specific kind of water heater.

        So to be clear when several people on this forum or other places say Rossi has a LENR patent, they are profoundly incorrect.

        • Omega Z

          I agree, Rossi’s patent makes no CF or LENR claims. Besides you can’t patent them, but only devices that would enable it.

          That is also why Rossi’s patent was granted and the very similar patent that Darden filed was denied. The patent Darden filed specifically included a claim of CF/LENR. It was in the identifier codes at the top of their patent.

  • I feel like celebrating SIGMA 5!!!

    WOOOOO!

    Wish I knew what it was 🙂

  • Jonnyb

    Dyson is apparently spending big on an electric car, could he be Rossi’s Partner, or one of them?

    • Stefenski

      hope not ,
      his stuff is way overpriced. 🙂

      • Jonnyb

        He is apparently spending Billions on it. His stuff maybe expensive, but they are innovative and popular and he knows how to sell. Ideal match in my opinion.

  • If it works nobody will give a darn about the history. It’ll be like looking at a stack of billion dollar bills.

    Your call for caution is very much warranted though. It sounds like it might be a big deal, but there’s been enough head scratching stuff in this drama to last a few lifetimes so we can probably expect more.

  • Omega Z

    None of this is a problem.

    If a serious player in the energy field thinks there is any possible chance of validity to Rossi’s device, they would have to check it out. It is also easy to confirm if Rossi really has industrial scale capable technology even at low input output. If Rossi is serious, he could easily demonstrate his technology to a seriously interested party without giving up “any secrets”. Table top scale and Rossi claims approximate COP=20. One watt in and 20 watts out.

    I merely place “MY” measurement device(s) before the controller, Between the controller and the Quark and measure the output/heat. I only need to Strictly know the input energy regardless of sign waves and energy out and what the device weighs to rule out chemical energy verses run time. I don’t need to know the particulars of whats in the device or anything else.

    Even if my measurements may be in error by 10% at the input and by 10% at the output, I’m not going to say, Sorry Rossi, you claimed approximate COP=20 and it appears it may only be approximate COP=15 and walk away. I may want to run an additional dozen tests to verify my findings, but we are ready for some serious talks. Bring in the lawyers to start working out the details.

    This is way different of COP=2 or 3 where small errors make or break a claim. And in short, I’d have to be really incompetent to not be able to discern a COP of 15. Unless of course you are Darden who seemed to seek out those who were incompetent. I was amazed when I saw how Darden selected his so called experts. It was like reading while at the hardware store, the clerk mentioned his cousins nephew knows how to read a voltmeter and a rectal thermometer. Dardens like, Hey, that’s the expert I want.

    However, If you read some of Dardens brownfield legal issues of remediation experts that had ZERO background or experience in brownfield remediation, you see that’s his mode of operation. Incompetence.

  • Axil Axil

    Much better for what?

    • Omega Z

      Ambience if nothing else. Electric heaters are so sterile.

  • Brokeeper

    Knowing that at least one Global Fortune 100 company is
    invited and knowing those likely to benefit from the E-Cat heat, we can take an
    educated guess as to which may be invited to the presentation.

    We can safely exclude most petroleum refinery industries
    and the auto/aerospace industries (too early or dependant engines built by
    those within the 100 list), I came up with the following short list:

    Rank Company Name Sector
    26 General Electric Industry
    32 E.ON Energy
    48 Seimens Industry
    78 Enel Energy
    80 Électricité de France Energy
    95 China Southern Power Energy

    Knowing Andrea Rossi and his team has been working on
    jet/turbine engine adaptation and I personally know that GE has known about
    LENR and the name A. Rossi at least since 2014, makes it on my probable candidate
    list, although others will also likely be present.

    • Omega Z

      “We can safely exclude most petroleum refinery industries”

      Why?

      Refineries use huge amounts of heat equal to about 10% of the energy obtained from oil. In fact, refinery profits decline with the price of oil as they are compensated according to price. You also have the Oil sands that are extremely energy intensive to extract.

      Two things to consider.
      1) OIL will be around for a long time.
      2) LENR will increase the profit margin even when Oil demand declines.
      Big Oil will be a ready user of this new technology and it will actually reduce the pollution of the extraction and refining process of the end product.

    • kenko1

      Hmmmm. GE just opened up a brand new 10 story office building at the intersection of Clay road and the west belt here in Houston. It’s directly across the beltway from one of their other oil & gas facilities. It took them about 1-1/2 years to tear down and rebuild at that location. Could that be a new GE- Ecat worldwide R&D hedquarters?

      • Brokeeper

        GE Power Conversion is part of the larger GE Energy Connections business that focuses on shifting industrial systems to more efficient and cleaner electric power.

    • LilyLover

      Seimens is most likely a partner alongwith ABB.
      GE knows; GE sold/selling assets; won’t go.
      OilCos know; won’t go.
      If I could I’d see Chase invited to show’em the Tesla Wardenclyffe revived.
      It’ll not be Gates or Elon.
      It could very well be Amazon.

      • Brokeeper

        Interesting. I hadn’t considered Amazon. They are diversifying into a lot of exotic alternatives.

      • Stefenski

        Chinese BYD maybe..

    • Skip

      GE stock price has been in a downward trend (death spiral?) for a year, so I bought a little bit…

    • Ophelia Rump

      You should not be so hasty to rule out the petroleum related industries, when solar first started to become a potential in the 70s Exxon bought up about 80% of all copper to get an advanced control of the potential.
      When wind got government grants the oil companies dived upon those grants, often building the turbines and then keeping many powered off. The oil industry would love to have a controlling interest in LENR. Then they could throttle it and when in their own best interest financially they would own that too.

      • Brokeeper

        I agree. Exxon was on my mind when I wrote “most”. Also, is why I mentioned (below) it would invite trouble should Rossi invite the narcissistic petro giants to the demonstration.

  • Monty

    Andrea Rossi
    November 13, 2017 at 10:55 AM
    Gian Luca and All Readers:
    The streaming of the demonstration of the E-Cat QX will start around noon (12 P.M.) of November 24th, Miami time.
    It will be available on
    http://www.ecat.com
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Monty

      12:00 EST = 17:00 UTC

      • tlp

        And the actual demo is several hours earlier, as the streaming is delayed. Perhaps exact time and place is secret until the demo is over, and the streaming starts.
        With this timing the place is probably somewhere in Sweden.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    If you saying that ties to big oil changes the outcome of the science view, then we ALSO can a whale of a time playing that card.

    Since your position is that the science is the result of the WHERE the paycheck comes from, then you are VERY MUCH just proving my point.

    It takes a government what, about 10 seconds to realize that it is VERY hard to sell MORE taxes to their people. When the BC government proposed some new taxes, then the legislative grounds where filled with angary tax payers in a matter of hours.

    Then the government came out and said, hey you bad people, we not going to raise taxes, but we will introduce a carbon tax to pay for your sins – and everyone said – ok, we will
    bend over and open our wallets.

    The ONLY way with such current high tax levels to sell the public MORE taxes is to use guilt, or a crises (start a war).

    So it takes a crises, or a war to get more taxes and price controls. So without a big war, then
    the ONLY real card the government has left to get more taxes is to sell you on
    a carbon tax and give you a big guilt trip.

    Since the carbon tax is all about a big tax grab, then clearly big government just like big oil stands to gain.

    So I 100% accept your position that the science changes depending on WHO AND WHERE the paycheck is coming from. So just like big oil, big government stands to make billions,
    and in fact potentially trillions of dollars from a carbon tax (in fact they
    could wind up making MORE than the oil industry!).

    So big oil or big government – they sure are trying to grab money out of your wallet.

    So I thank you VERY KINDLY for pointing out the science CHANGES based on the source of the paycheck for that science.

    Thus your GREAT point about how big government money means that this source will simply promote more carbon taxes.

    And you can WELL verify this by simply reading the climate gate emails – I suggest you do that.

    This global warming scam is all about the taxes, and the leaders of the global warming movement flat out state so.

    Any scientist that goes against anything the IPCC puts out, simply is ignored, and this video
    shows this process in action:

    https://youtu.be/F2J-zHo-ILw?list=PLAB8D69F1FF1797C6

    Have fun – but I do 100% agree with your point that the science changes based on the source of the paycheck.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Yesterday at COP23 climate researchers announced that we have only 20 years left to reduce our co2 emissions radically before the climate change becomes “self-sustaining”.

    So Mr. Rossi, if you read this: PLEASE GET THIS THING OUT INTO THE MARKET AND PLEASE DON’T CHEAT AND SCAM US!

    • sam
    • malkom700

      This is, in a sense, a good news because at least at the UN level we are aware of the realistic situation. A few years ago skeptics dominated media surfaces.

      • MorganMck

        Not sure exactly what the true situation is with CC, but the proponents did themselves no favors by the wild exaggerations (scare tactics?) that comprised the initial roll-out or the movement. Temps, in fact, have not risen to the levels predicted, oceans have not risen to the heights predicted and arctic sea ice has not disappeared in the summers as predicted (just to name a few). Then suspiciously, the only technologies that can “save the planet” are wind and solar ignoring any role for nuclear which environmentalists hate even though it emits zero CO2 and is a well establish source with many improved versions in the wings. My hope is that LENR and/or SunCell can solve the problem by motivating their adoption on a noncontroversial basis – LOWER COST.

  • sam

    TEN DAYS TO G0
    Gerard McEK

    November 14, 2017 at 8:18 AM

    Dear Andrea,

    I am sure that many look forward to the E-cat QX presentation 11/24 after 12 o’clock Miami, Florida time.

    Can you give some impression of what will be revealed. I read you will tell about the status of the theory you are developing.

    1. Will you explain which reactions are taking place, how it is possible
    that the Coulomb barrier is overcome and why no radiation is measured?

    2. Will you explain which reaction(s) produce the heat/light/electricity?

    3. Will you reveal the minimum and maximum COP?

    4. Will you reveal details about the way the QX is being controlled
    (on/off or in some analogue way like: off- cool- warmer- warm- hot- very
    hot-)

    5. Will you explain how heat should be removed from the QX (with water,
    steam, air, inert gas, liquid metal; using natural flow, pumps, fans)

    6. Will you explain how a cluster can be controlled?

    7. Will you tell how far you are with your R&D in integrating the QX
    into an apparatus like a jet, hot air machine or whatever?

    8. Will you give an impression how you see the world adapting to the
    E-cat QX (industrial processes, room heating, automotive and aerospace)
    including a prognosis of its assumed development (quantities,
    integration in society)?

    9. Will you also reveal aspects of the QX that have never been mentioned?

    10. Will you reveal how the operational details of the QX (operational
    life, refill fuel or replace QuarkX -clusters, maintenance
    requirements, safety aspects etc. etc.)

    I know I ask a lot, but you know, we have been waiting so long for
    this and these questions are just some of the many more details where we
    have been waiting for.

    I hope the demonstration will be great. Good luck to you and your team

    Kind regards, Gerard
    Andrea Rossi

    November 14, 2017 at 9:58 AM
    Gerard McEk:

    The protocol will be explained at the beginning of the test.

    Thank you for your wishes,

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.
    Anonymous

    November 14, 2017 at 8:57 AM
    Dear Dr Andrea Rossi:

    I have understood that after noon of November 24th Miami, Florida time the video of the test will be online, correct?
    Andrea Rossi

    November 14, 2017 at 9:52 AM

    Anonymous:

    Yes, it is correct.

    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • sam

    Andrea Rossi

    November 14, 2017 at 12:52 PM

    TO ALL THE PERSONS THAT HAVE BEEN INVITED TO ATTEND TO THE DEMO OF NOVEMBER 24TH:
    PLEASE BRING WITH YOU AN ID, BECAUSE THE SECURITY WILL CHECK THE NAMES OF THE LIST TO ALLOW TO ENTER.
    PLEASE BE IN THE PLACE AT 9.30 A.M.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • cashmemorz

    By fixable, this means to me that whatever is causing the climate change, anthropomorphic or natural, might make no difference. If the natural forces are too strong or unknown, then it is not fixable by people. If it is too easily fixable, in a way that addresses specific causes that are exclusively anthropomorphic, then that can only mean that it is caused only by us. It is a simple way of getting to the causes if caused by us. If it is both, that is a way to cover talk that is done by a “forked tongue”.

  • Axil Axil

    https://phys.org/news/2017-11-subsidizing-coal-nuclear-power-customers.html

    Subsidizing coal and nuclear power could drive customers off the grid

    The Trump DOE wants to keep coal and nuclear plants open by requiring ratepayers to subsidize them.

    The rate payers will find it economic to go off grid. What a great time for a LENR reactor to hit the market.

    “Will consumers willingly pay higher bills to support coal and nuclear power? My research group has analyzed another option: Going off-grid and generating electricity with home-based solar energy systems. Recently we compared the cost of grid power to off-grid renewable generation in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula. We found that within a few years, a majority of single-family owner-occupied households could afford the necessary generating systems and economically defect from the grid.”

    • Rene

      In the United States one of the largest consumers of electrical power was the U.S. military. They have been going off-grid years ago, much to the dismay of several southern states. Now the reason they went off-grid was not cost, but lack of reliability of the power grid and its vulnerability to cyberattack. They switched to renewables, tons of PV, and gas fired generators or fuel cells. A growing number of large corporations are also going off the grid, switching to fuel cells and photovoltaics. Apple corp is a notable one. Their reason is again lack of reliability in the power grid and their ability to get lower costs by generating in situ. The downside to these very large customers leaving the power grid is that the burden of the grid costs falls to those who remain.
      As prices rise, those people who can afford the investment buy PV to offset those increases. Going completely off-grid is still expensive, and that expense will rise as the Trump administration actively goes after PV to make it less competitive. It’s basically internal tariffs to protect the coal industry. But, this ham handed attempt to force a specific set of power billionaires make a profit is going to fail.

  • Zeddicus23

    This has been studied, and it turns out that at least for now the direct effects of man-made heat production are 100 times smaller (!) than the effects of CO2 and other greenhouse gases. See the following website: https://www.skepticalscience.com/waste-heat-global-warming.htm

    • Bob Greenyer

      What Zeddicus23 said.

  • Axil Axil

    Before NASA wastes too much of their precious R&D on buggy wip technology, it is time for the Quark to take center stage in powering space exploration and settlement. Replacing the fission heat source in Kilopower is a no brainer. Safety Certification is obviously not required for this technology and the R&D resources of NASA can be used to jumpstart the LENR reactor home use business when a LENR Kilopower based product is eventually configured. Rossi should get some NASA engineers over to his demo.Once they see the Quark in action, they will configure Kilopower property with a LENR heat source.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=55&v=DcdfMcjUy_U

    • Rene

      If LENR is practical, and if LENR is as least as reliable as a radioisotope heater, and if the fuel can be made to last 20+ years as RTGs today can easily do today, then yes a LENR heater head would be nice.

      • Axil Axil

        20+ years is not required if a plug and play fuel solution can be implemented. The kilopower is an electrical generator not an electrical heater but it could be configured into a cogeneration unit where it can produce heat and electrical power.

        Since proliferation is an issue, U235 as a power source can only be used in trusted situations like submarines and spaceships whereas a LENR based kilopower units can be used everywhere and in most applications. Appliances can use a small sub kilowatt unit as a modular power source.

        LENR power for automobiles will be the most popular application.

        • Rene

          All great things (with a ton of ‘if’ caveats), except that the NASA kilopower is meant for space exploration with 10+ year space missions. In that vein LENR if practical has a long road to long term space missions. Yes, repurposing it for domestic or mobile use is a possibility. But right now, LENR is not happening. We’ll see what the 24th brings, then some better speculation can happen.

          • Axil Axil

            One design option is to provide 10 megawatts of QX power and only use 1 Mwatt worth at a time in a series by using a control algorithm.

            A high reliability solution can be fashioned through the use of equipment redundancy,

          • frank

            I would be highly interested in the proposed design of combining and managing 500.000 (!!) QX reactors in a plant, and be able to control every single one of them…that would be a real challenge!

  • Axil Axil

    https://tec.grc.nasa.gov/rps/stirling-research-lab/advanced-stirling-convertor/

    NASA’s new sterling heat convertor for is a highly efficient, low mass, reliable power convertor for future Radioisotope Power Systems (RPS)

    See post below.

  • Rene

    Read up on heat escaping earth and entrapment gases that stop that escape. Then, you’ll see your concern is not really a concern.

  • Veblin
  • Engineer48
  • Engineer48

    Cheapest electricity on the planet is Mexican solar power at 1.77¢/kWh – record 1¢/kWh coming in 2019, sooner:

    https://electrek.co/2017/11/16/cheapest-electricity-on-the-planet-mexican-solar-power/

    Rossi and the other LENR companies had better get their skates on or be left behind.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Impressive, and certainly to be welcomed. However, costs for extending and maintaining the grid will have to be added to these figures. 24/7 availability would require energy storage or conversion (for example, by electrolysis) and subsequent distribution, which would cause considerable additional costs. For these and other reasons, I think that there will still be enough headroom for LENR technology.

      • Engineer48

        Tesla Power Grid deliver stored energy 24/7/365/15 for around $0.02/kWh.

        Mexican example adds generation at $0.017/kWh.

        Suggests $0.037/kWh is doable NOW for solar PV plus storage for electrical generation to the grid 24/7/365/15.

        Can Rossi beat this solar + storage number, which will probably be nearer $0.02/kWh by the time, say 2 years, QX reactors are delivering commercial heat.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Even if he couldn’t, there would still remain a huge market, if you only consider powering ships or trains and energy supply to remote/underdeveloped areas.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Andreas,

            Solar PV + storage at $100k/MWe, note NOT MWt, is a killer cost. New coal or gas is 10x or greater capital cost plus fuel and carbon tax costs

            This changes the landscape and helps to define where QX MWt energy is viable. QX MWe, where there is a grid, may not be viable. Need to see ECat QX prices.

    • AdrianAshfield

      Engineer48, so far the history of solar power has been that plants do not live up forecast performance.
      It maybe a bit premature to count the chickens before they are hatched.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Adrian,

        With this contract, the bidder builds the plant at their cost, well at their financiers cost, and gets paid $0.0177 for every AC kWh pumped into the grid connection substation.

        If the plant under performs, the operator loses, so they are conservative on their estimations of the yearly kWhs the plant will deliver.

        Your statement is correct when plants are built and bought based on MW capacity, as yearly kWh generation is unknown and the plant buyer takes a chance the yearly generation will be enough to pay down the construction loan and operational costs with some profit left over.

        • AdrianAshfield

          I hope you are right. But if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Adrian,

            It is a fixed price supply contract. Grid operator agrees to buy X kWhs per year or other period at a fixed price per kWh delivered.

            If the plant fails to deliver the kWhs, not only do they not get paid but they may pay a penality for under delivery as the grid operator will need to purchase the KWhs from another generator and at a higher price.

            Of course this is general and the Mexican contract may have many variations.

            With this form of solar plant contract, most of the risk of under generation is carried by the plant operator and not the kWh purchaser.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Adrian,

        With this contract, the bidder builds the plant at their cost, well at their financiers cost, and gets paid $0.0177 for every AC kWh pumped into the grid connection substation.

        If the plant under performs, the operator loses, so they are conservative on their estimations of the yearly kWhs the plant will deliver.

        Your statement is correct when plants are built and bought based on MW capacity, as yearly kWh generation is unknown and the plant buyer takes a chance the yearly generation will be enough to pay down the construction loan and operational costs with some profit left over..

  • Engineer48

    Capital cost for the Mexican project is amazing.

    682 MW of AC generation capacity for $38.4m or $56k/MW. (ENEL bid)

    Can Rossi or anybody match $56k/MWe? Note MWe, not MWt.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/55b75ebede792f7050950134defa311cebc3f15b0bb61aaa018cc3cb8eb09bbf.png

    • tlp

      Brilliantlightpower promises about the same, $60k/MWe, but continuous power, 24/7/365

      • Engineer48

        Hi tlp,

        $100k/MWe from solar + storage is real (25/15 year warranty) and installable NOW. Projecting around $50/MWe in 2 years

        So far BLP is vapourware with no long term warranty.

        • tlp

          BLP is same kind of vaporware as Rossi, they both have to get their products ready first.

          Those solar + storage deals are available only in limited areas. Not possible to store sunlight from summer to winter. Also big cities in China need to clear their sky first.

          • Engineer48

            Hi tlp,

            Agreed on QX and BLP.

            Once proven to have COP > 10, they need to be shown to be highly reliable and capable of matching solar + wind + storage capital cost / MWe and cost / MWe.

            In all electricity wholesale markets, low demand kWh cost is much lower than peak kWh cost. Storage can charge from the grid when price is low and feed the grid when price is high. So more involved with storage than just solar and wind availibility and input.

            Base load always run thermal plants will be around for many years.

            What Tesla Power Grid has done is to add very cost effective storage into a grid’s equation, which will reduce peak demand grid strain AND virtually eliminate traditional demand regulation issues caused by solar and wind.

            Which means we can expect rapid solar and wind price reductions and massive installations world wide as storage allows greater and greater renewable generation to supply the grid via the storage buffer.

            Elon’s Tesla Power Grid changed everything.

    • Jonnyb

      Yeah but LENR may be used in Cars, Planes etc. O.K. so can batteries but to have a Power Generation system should be much better than just a Power Storage system. So don;t worry folks, LENR will still be needed!!

      • Toussaint françois

        Yes, much more power density

  • Engineer48

    This graph shows why the electricity market is out of control, run without government oversight, it is a monopoly of course as only one set of wires connects the load to the grid.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ce686d0716f28344e7eb620c273ea8c7faafa3e281e7a026fdded604790a22e9.png

    South Australiana are paying the highest price on the planet for domectic electricity, despite having a higher solar availability than Mexico.

    This is so wrong and needs to change.

    Products like
    solar at $0.0177/kWh
    storage at $0.02/kWh
    BLP at ???
    QX at ???

    will help that change to occur.

    I understand that in South Australia, solar + batteries are being installed by most home owners. Which suggests SA may be a good market for QX and BLP based electricity generation as fairly easy to compete against $0.47/kWh.

    • Eyedoc

      I suspect SAus may have enormous tax load (healthcare etc), which will keep all costs high nomatter which is used ……..same for Denmark ??

      • Engineer48

        Hi EyeDoc,

        SA has very high %, over 50%, of renewable generation, which was created by past generous state gov subsidies, paid for by the single state wide distributor.

        Now that distributor claws back the money they spent by increasing power costs to those without renewable generation.

        So today those without solar pay for past solar subsidies.

        This is happening in all countries that paid out large subsidies.

        No Free Lunches. Electricity payers ultimately pay for renewable subsidies.

        Bottom line, install solar and batteries as the remaining grid users will pay higher and higher energy costs as total grid customers decline.

  • Eyedoc

    Re Obamacare…..they screwed up by being too scared to eliminate BIG INSURANCE and BIG PHARM……. as long as they’re pulling $Bil profits out its doomed