Control Test of LION Reactor by Alan Smith

Alan Smith of Looking For Heat has started a test using a LFH Model T reactor in which he is doing a ‘control’ experiment of the LION reactor. This means that he is using non-fueled tubes of the same type as LION, and seeing how they behave when heated. This will allow us to see how they compare to the LION reactors which were fueled with diamonds mounted on a nickel substrate, and soaked in deuterium for 30 days. I have not seen precise data on the runs he did with LION 1 and LION 2 so I am not exactly sure how closely Alan’s heating of his tubes compares with LION’s but LION did use a LHF Model T test bed also.

Here are some of Alan’s comments here regarding his test, along with an image he has shared.

“Just looked at my LION control. 18 hours at around 1000C so far, and still only a few degrees higher in the wire-wrapped tube port, which I am pretty sure is due to slightly lower circulation of atmosphereic convection currents in the slightly more confined space around it.”

“There is one development however, in that the wire-wrapped tube appears to have welded itself to the quartz liner- possibly due to slow migration of copper/copper oxide into the quartz- or perhaps the other way around.”

as

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/46c94651ca3d39dd1b98cb232826e1f7da8d8256252ccaca1fe076a03e66e360.jpg

“This experiment does not require calorimetry to any order of precision. The reactor itself has been calibrated to an accuracy of 1C difference between ports at 1000C. The current discrepancy is of the order of 8C, which represents a percentage difference of 0.8, and is hardly significant.”

“If this was an experiment requiring accurate calorimetry then both control and test tubes would be wrapped in the same amount of Cu Wire. The Model T is a simple system, but incredibly well characterised, and has never been known to yield significant or ‘non-obvious’ errors in any of several hundred experiments performed in my own laboratory and in those of 2 scientific institutions who have found it very useful as a ‘petri dish’ for testing various fuel mixes.”

More information and images from Alan are available at LENR Forum here.

UPDATE FROM ALAN BELOW:

“30 hours and 15 minutes now- everything rock-steady in the reactor. On Saturday at 3.15 this run will be fin-shed, and I’ll make a short video of the tear-down. .And start off another 48 hour ‘control+control’ run at 800C – which BobG thinks is closer to LION’s temperature profile. While the diamonds are cooking, this provides us with some base-line data.”

  • Bruce__H

    Too bad there isn’t a like button for an entire thread!

    • There is a little heart just above your comment which you can click to endorse this whole thread / discussion

      • Bruce__H

        !!! Thanks!

  • Alan Smith

    30 hours and 15 minutes now- everything rock-steady in the reactor. On Saturday at 3.15 this run will be fin-shed, and I’ll make a short video of the tear-down. .And start off another 48 hour ‘control+control’ run at 800C – which BobG thinks is closer to LION’s temperature profile. While the diamonds are cooking, this provides us with some base-line data.

    • LION

      Hi ALAN,
      thanks very much for all you are doing.

      Can I ask you to set aside some time for you and RUSS and I to meet this coming Thursday.

      For me anytime after 2P.M. is O.K. though for practical purposes for all of us probably best between 5 and 8 P.M. so it does not interfere with the working day.
      Same place as I first met RUSS, as it is half way for both of us with good food and watering facilities, so we can sit down comfortably and talk.
      I am very much looking forward to seeing BOB open the reactor and see inside, I am of course just as curious as anyone else.
      I will send you an email with more details on Monday evening.
      Let us Try and make B.J. and the Cavendish Laboratory Cambridge Proud of us.

      • Alan Smith

        Hi there!
        Thursday 15th, 4 pm is good for me -later if you like.

        • LION

          Hi ALAN,
          thanks very much 4P.M. it is then.
          Looking forward to it.
          I will email Monday evening.
          All the best.

          • Alan Smith

            Perfect! Look forward to it.

          • Bob Greenyer

            SEM session will finish at 14:00 UK time, so I can dial in with preliminary results.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Lion,

        Bob has stated the Lion reactors operated at 800C.

        As the fuel tube was sealed by a bolt, clearly you did not measure the temperature inside the fuel rod.

        Where did you place your temp probe to measure the reactor operating temp?

        • I can obviously not answer on Lion’s behalf but the Friendly Robots have TC’s built into the rear of the reactors. One tends to go to the PID/temperature controller and the other to a datalogger / temperature display.

          Using bare reactor cores provided by LFH you can squeeze in TC’s together with the reactor cores in the ports of the reactor as well, but that does not tend to give accurate readings, unless they have a very fixed position as in Alans dry runs where you can see that the TC’s are fixed within reactor cores.

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7a678307b6221462b994f433258c3f336f6ca0f9fb9e49d63b09b586e5b9d964.jpg

      • Engineer48

        Hi Lion,

        Making Nobel laureate Brian Josephson & Cambridge’s famous Cavendish Laboratory proud of your and Alan’s efforts is indeed a very worthy goal.

        All the best of Aussie luck in that endevour.

  • Alan Smith

    40.5 hours in now- and things have changed a little, the wrapped tube is now 12C cooler than the plain tube. Bit of a mystery that, though not indicative IMHO of anything very strange happening – the difference is quite small compared to the baseline temperature of 980 in the hottest port. I did back the power off a little late yesterday, being concerned that the inexpensive K-type thermocouples wouldn’t survive- but they still seem to be ok- failure mode is generally to stop working altogether. But, as I have said before, this run is about chemistry, not calorimetry. 7 hours 15 to go!

    • Bruce__H

      While we await data, could you please describe how your testing rig is hooked up and controlled? For instance does information from the thermocouples feed back to determine how much current flows through the heating wires?

      • Bob Greenyer

        The basic operation is described succinctly in “Mining Diamonds with Lion” on the first ‘Experiment’ slide.

        Download/View Presentation slides
        https://goo.gl/8zne9U

        • Bruce__H

          I remember now. Thanks. In particular this seems to be a voltage source that operates using bang bang control (on/off, like an old style thermostat on a domestic furnace).

          I was wondering, though, how it works with 2 sides in operation. Is only one thermocouple used for the feedback signal? And if it is, and since the heating coils are hooked up in series, is it the first or second chamber that provides the feedback signal?

          • Bob Greenyer

            The ‘active side’ is monitored for the PID.

      • Alan Smith

        Hi Bruce. There is nothing fancy about the electrical system used for this test. The PSU itself is home-brewed., based on a 2.5kW @50VDC voltage-stabilised server power supply feeding 4 channels.3 are mediated by variable voltage PWM units, with current clamping, each one rated at 15A max. These are adustable in increments of 0.01V right across the range 5-48V. Right now the system is running at 30V 9A.

        The Model T reactor as supplied to Neil uses a ‘smart’ PID temperature controller, which runs on a 2 second loop

    • Engineer48

      Hi Alan,

      Possibly the transparency of the quartz tube has reduced?

      Maybe there is a thin film of copper oxide deposited on the inside of the quartz tube?

      Really looking forward to the tear down videos & photos.

  • Alan Smith

    Switched off now- waiting for it to cool down a little…

  • Alan Smith

    I dismantled the reactor after the ’48 hours at 1000C test ‘ of a copper wire wrapped alumina fuel tube as produced by LION’s last run. The copper is nothing like the copper on the ‘post event’ tube that BobG has. Here are some still images, showing the glassy silver grey state of the CU wire, which is almost like a solidified mass of very hard ceramic. In a couple of places the wire and the quartz liner in the reactor were stuck together, so bit of copper are adhering to the quartz, and bits of quartz to the denatured copper. It should be born in mind that here we are only at 50C or under the m.p. of Cu. There will be video of the whole thing when it is edited. Next step is ‘rinse and repeat’ at 800C. The liner shows zero signs of melt famage though – and is still perfectly round, though cracked and chipped a little. The detached (snapped off) part of the fuel tube happened during extraction, it was so firmly bonded to the Quartz. Worth mentioning that all the silver leaf has vanished from the tip of the tube…

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5c50aab1be39cb2923af0bda46fb08aa17657a1686e5b0105c427448a6dfca39.jpg
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3bcd95ded7d5bc5eeacb35a2e9fd45f386e711dd889c0397e6c19518956e86d7.jpg

    • Engineer48

      Hi Alan,

      Good to see the copper wire has altered to the copper oxide crystaline form as observed in the Lion 1 and Lion 2 cores.

      • Alan Smith

        Though there is no bare copper like Bob saw in LION2.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Alan,

          Crack off all the Cu oxide covering the coil to look for Cu wire that did not oxidise and go crystaline.

          If none, then the temp the coil was subjected to was above that of the Lion coil.

          • Alan Smith

            That’s the next move, it will be interesting to see what happened on the parts of the wrapping closest to the Alumina fuel tube. Also today I’ll start the 48 hours at 800C run and see what that yields.

          • Alan Smith

            So far it only proves what happens at 1000C for 48 hours. And that the silver will migrate from the tip of the alumina into the wire wrapping and reappear elsewhere. Capillary action I expect- silver is very good at that as anyone who has done silver-brazing knows.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Bob Higgins had a lot to say about the difficulties of silver migration in electronics.

            He has an SEM and EDS on order. He has a range of Hutchison samples on their way to him. He is engaged in something till end next week, but we can expect some strong base-line data to work with from his work and my SEM session this Thursday.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Alan,

          Expect there was a temp gradient from the centre of the coil to the open end of the alumina tube, so maybe some of the Cu wire there is not fully crystallised?

          Quick check?

          • Alan Smith

            Already done- there is no part of the wire wrapping that isn’t completely crystallised. There is a gradient of course, but not enough to change what happens over 48 hours at such a high temperature.

            The 800C/48H test is 20 hours in now. Both tubes are very close in temperature- 797.4C and 797.8C. This indicates that the slow oxidation of the copper wire wrapping is not significantly exothermic under these conditions. As seen in the previous test the wire-wrapped tube appears to have adhered to the Quartz somewhat -at least it isn’t moving freely as it should with the gentlest of touches. The carbon/tarry deposits created by burning off the polyster coating on the wire, as seen in the last test, are slowly disappearing due to oxidation (I assume).

      • Bob Greenyer

        As I said in MDWL, Copper can start oxidizing at 200ºC. I linked to the research in the presentation.

        In this control run, the temperature from the TC in the core core averaged by the Quartz, Copper and Alumina was around 1000ºC. The pitch of the Kanthal heater wire is quite wide and so, both through direct IR through the Quartz and conduction you can imagine that the areas close to the wire are in excess of the melting point.

        In the LION reactors, the temperature is measured through a port in the back of the Model T and is claimed to have not exceeded 800ºC

        So, in MDWL, I state very clearly with reference that oxidation can occur – the paper talks about propagation along grain boundaries. The first unusual thing is the complete absence of grains – it is totally glassy. Then there is the Strange Radiation track that is frozen in an instance – if the material was liquid or shifting phases these perfectly crisp features would be softened and ‘blurred’ as EVO strikes are in sono-fusion SEMs.

        But there is MUCH more evidence which I have share that points to something extra-ordinary going on.

        As I have said before, I believe that this was splat cooled – more than 1000ºC/s. My understanding would dictate a momentary spike in temperature followed by a drop to basically absolute zero. This has been corroborated by communications with John Hutchison who said that just after treatment his samples were MUCH cooler than ambient.

        After ‘O Day’ this will make total logical sense.

        • Alan Smith

          800C for 48 hours is next stop!

    • Andreas Moraitis
    • Engineer48

      Hi Alan,

      By comparing the core and tube images, it seems the brown blob on the Cu oxide wire section between the 2 broken away patches is quartz.

      Can you explain how the Cu oxide apparently fused with the quartz tube? See attached image.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f6357f6922b97fafcbc9573fa1e6e1dc19425312b613956bedd154d6c9e2c726.png

      • Alan Smith

        I have a suspicion that the silver leaf – which all migrated from the end of the tube and into -and through the Cu wire is the cause of adhesion between wire and Quartz. Purely chemical in origin.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Alan,

          What I see in your photos are what we see in the Lion 1 and Lion 2 photos.

          Chemical effects.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That’s because you are not looking at the photos I have shared close enough.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            Only interested in the Lion core and Alan’s core images.

            There I see the same chemical effects. Crystallised copper bounding to the side wall of the quartz tube.

            Not interested in looking at shapes in clouds, etc where you can find anything you seek.

            One thing that is clear is there was highly localised heating in the Lion 2 core as revealed from where the copper wire is totally oxidised and where there is some of the original copper wire.

            Shows there was a high heat gradient, which is not evident in Alan’s 1st wire wrapped coil which was totally oxidised to a crystalline state.

            This suggests a strong exothermic heat source inside the alumina tube, which suggests that maybe the melted blob inside the alumina tube was the heat source.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The same effects are seen in NOVA, LION, ECCO and Hutchison – ONLY by looking at the spread does it become obvious.

            ONLY because I paid close attention to all data already shared did I know 100% that LION2 is both a replication of LION 1 and that is doing LENR.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            Most, including me, would ask to see the temp data from the control reactor vs active reactor that shows excess heat is being generated.

            Then run the test long enough to prove the excess energy is greatly in excess of max possible chemical energy.

            So far that data has not been shared.

            Do really hope you will release the above temp data showing both excess heat and excess energy generation on O Day.

          • Bob Greenyer

            As I understand it, both will be recorded in the live run. There are two ports at the back for the K-Types.

            O day is not only about LION – it is across the board.

          • Bruce__H

            Engineer48 said
            “One thing that is clear is there was highly localised heating in the Lion 2 core as revealed from where the copper wire is totally oxidised and where there is some of the original copper wire.

            Shows there was a high heat gradient, which is not evident in Alan’s 1st wire wrapped coil which was totally oxidised to a crystalline state.”

            This argument depends a LOT on where exactly the thermocouple feeding back to the current controller was in the LION runs. Do we know this?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bruce,

            Localised Cu oxidation & crystallisation pattern helps to map the temp gradient.

            From that it is clear both Lion cores had a high heat where the quartz fused and very lower heat at the bolt end of the fuel tube.

          • Very hot/reactive oxidative corrosive metal chemistry going on in these tubes with and without ‘cold fusion’ reactants present. Visual studies are far too subject to individual interpretation to characterize this British wildlife. Surely when some far more data intense replications are run we will see if there is a roaring lion or a mewling hedgehog in the tubes.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Russ,

            Totally agree.

            Sadly Lion apparently did not supply any temp vs time vs control temp.

            Hopefully Alan will come to the rescue and determine which species of animal is living in the fuel tubes.

  • Alan Smith

    Here are some photographs microscope photographs of the of inside of the copper wrapping and the dismembered fuel-tube. There is a close-up of the area where much of the silver foil has gathered (first photo), of the highly crystallised copper, still retaining some of the form of the wire, and some general shots of the whole thing. Worth noting that there are no visible traces of unoydised copper anywhere. Plus a couple of images showing the new test at 800C underway, there is very close correlation between tube temperatures (2C approx)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f40936c7c7a194883c4aed0653f93bc2badf01030cd770e5daff2d4b0c41759b.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/27ad8214357f37861d7d31f157a8fb63a40227b784650df96ab3c237558ca25a.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d8d42ba895a34942f6cc01474442972d84ef84bfffc7b9a153424587a56123bc.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ab5cd58c872b6f0809973a0d1d6f32d7dfc3cdc7abd061a7c1efc043dc51ffca.jpg

    • Bob Greenyer

      Not the same beast at all – let’s see what happens at 800ºC

  • Alan Smith

    Here’s a short video of the teardown.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5xCpasWAt8

  • Engineer48

    Alan,

    Can you find out where Lion placed his temp sensor and use the same position during your tests?

    • Alan Smith

      I am meeting with LION to clarify details this week. I assure you that when LENR testing begins we aim to replicate everything that LION did as closely as possible- warm-up protocol, tc placement, everything. Plus full 6 channel data-logging – I should be able to spot a mouse-fart at 50 meters by the time we are done setting up. Replication means replication. Right now I am just looking at the chemistry side of things without the presence of any LENR-active ingredients in the system, so tc placement has been done to check fuel-tube temperature as closely as possible – internal temperatures rather than external ones is key here IMHO.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Alan, who wrote:
        “Replication means replication”

        Totally. ONLY way to do it! Especially as Lion is using your/LFH equipment.

        Thanks for checking the colder end of the coil.

        Do you think the oxidising copper process is covalent bounding to O atoms on the surface of the Quartz?

        The pinkish quartz is saying to me there is some process bounding copper oxide molecules to the Quartz molecules.

        Also the cu oxide to quartz tube wall bounding location is just about the same location on your Quartz tube and the Lion 2 tube.

        I suggest that as one end of the hole in the block is open and another almost closed, the max heat location would shift from the centre of the coil toward the closed end.

        That max temp location may be where the Lion 2 and your core bounded to the quartz tube side wall.

        • There are plenty of examples of metal to quartz bonding to create hermetic seals, Kovar is the preferred metal but copper works especially as a copper silver brazing alloy.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Russ,

            And the temp required is?

          • Alan Smith

            Anything around 700C or over is enough.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        If possible, please try to find out every detail about the ‚electric output event’. Was there any cable connected? Did the reactor still have contact with the heater tube? Etc.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Andreas,

          “Electric output event”?

          Did I miss something?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            See slide 16 (“Post experiment test”) in the PPT: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A3ARK3jstpyB1jfcRhR-zhRMhd2aNLux/view

          • Engineer48

            Hi Andreas,

            Ah yes that claim.

            1.67 amps at 12 vdc flowing through a 1F super cap for 30 minutes.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I do not think that the power supply would include such a large capacitor. But it seems possible that there was a malfunction that caused a current leak which remained open as long as the material was hot.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Andreas,

            Bob showed either a photo or video of the 20W 12 Vdc light bulb being in series with a supercap.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I will take the EXACT SAME bulb as used in LION1 to UK for the replication.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Bob,

            Excellent.

            Plus the same super cap as well?

          • Bob Greenyer

            We do not know what the thing that it was attached to. But we hope to.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I actually suspect the ‘drain’ to be a more conductive metal, like silver or gold.

          • Alan Smith

            Absolutely not possible.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I am not sure about quartz, but alumina gets conductive at high temperatures (ionic conduction).

          • Alan Smith

            Hi Andreas, Alumina does indeed become conductive when hot – I have tested it awhile back with these very tubes. You get virtually no conduction under 500C though, and then it picks up until at about 800C you can push 3 watts through the wall to a bolt. The only problem is that the conductivity even then is so low that it took 3000VDC and a very serious power supply to do it. LION’s heater coils run on 36VDC…so not much chance of anything serious happening.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Granted, but do we know what happens if the material is contaminated (for example, by leaking hydrogen)? I just want to be sure that the effect – for me so far the most interesting detail in Lion’s experiment – is what it looks like. Anyway, in a replication I would remove all the cables (including the wires of the thermocouple) to be on the safe side.

          • Alan Smith

            I am sure there are scenarios where we don’t know what happens if a material is contaminated, but in this case I cannot imagine what they might be or where they would come from. This uncertainty is why we do experiments and why in this instance I am running control experiments before we even start looking at fuelled systems, so I can assure you that all reasonable care will be taken. But I must assure you that once any of the power supplies I own are switched off at the main supply point, then they have so far failed to produce any interesting amounts of electricity or heat.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I am sure you will do it as carefully as possible. Thanks again for your work.

    • Alan Smith

      Yes, of course. Don’t forget he is using a system I designed and built – I am aware of all the possibilities.

  • Alan Smith

    The end of the wrapped tube would if anything be torqued upwards by the tc cables. But that isn’t really happening, the combination of Cu wire wrapping, alumina tube and stainless-steel sheathed thermocouples is heavy enough to lay comfortably on the bottom of the Quartz liner, which is the place it adhered to.

  • Alan Smith

    Heres a little update on the 1000C run. Careful filing away of the crystalline CuO has revealed 2 small spots where there are microscopic grains of unoxidised copper deep in the matrix. Reflected light microscope photograph at 250X below. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/597950ac40ee6d395b1da1d43eacf56f3732a54f815b3b1d9a9c3148b345e18b.jpg

  • Alan Smith

    The 800C/48Hr experiment is now 30 hours in, reactor rock-steady at 798 degrees in the ‘TC only’ port and 802 in the LION-wrapped port.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks so much for the update Alan

  • Alan Smith

    The 800C/48 hr run is finished, and cooling down. Normal cooling curve as expected. I’ll video the teardown later- possibly the second most boring video I have ever made – titled ‘LION Cub part 2 -nothing unexpected here’. But we shall see. The oxidation state of the Cu wire is obviously the most interesting aspect of this test.

  • Alan Smith

    The 800C reactor stripdown underway- preliminary examination shows 2 differences to the 1000C run. First of all there are two bands of sooty deposits on the outside of the wrapped tube and a little on the Quartz liner. The origin of these is the insulation on the CU wire burning off at ‘first heat’. 800C for 48 hours is obviously not enough to burn all the carbon away as happened in the first run.

    There are also very clear signs of the silver leaf melting and migrating under the copper wire and then pooling on the bottom surface of the tube. No surprise there, that is the hottest zone where the tube is in contact with the liner. The silvery patches have adhered a little to the quartz, and removing the tube has removed some small fragmentsof the Quartz surface, still stuck to the copper/silver matrix.

    I’ll get back to this later with photographs and a look beneath the oxide layer.

    • Alan Smith

      Worth pointing out that the silver leaf here melted at 800C – 150C below the normal melting point of silver. There are two explanations for this, the ‘magic action’ explanation of cold liquefaction, or a more mundane one that copper and silver alloys have melting points below 800C (hence their use for silver soldering) and that over the 48 hours of the run enough copper had migrated into the silver to lower its melting point.

      Take your pick!

      • Stephen

        Interesting idea.

        It’s hard to think of any redox reactions that could account for localized excess heat.

        Is there any aluminum metal or Metal oxides at the start in there?

        • Alan Smith

          The control tests I ran showed that the oxidation of Cu is not particularly exothermic – and there’s nothing else there except a few milligrams of silver leaf. No Al, no firewood, nothing.

      • Jouni Tuomela

        Just a thought, from one picture there was some film between Cu-coils. Is that from the silver? Could that be heated more because of the current jumping through that cause of the lower resistance? Just a thought.

  • Alan Smith

    Hi. There is of course a temperature gradient along the Quartz furnace tube. The nature and magnitude of which depends as you might imagine on the set temperature of the system and also on the load inside the Quartz is. However, we are normally only interested in the innermost 50mm of the system, where the temperature gradent at 500C has been measured at 0.2C/mm, increasing to 0.25C/mm at 800C.

    The reactor name ‘Model T’ is indeed an homage to Henry Ford, An inexpensive no-frills device available in any colour so long as it cream..

  • Alan Smith

    A little longer than that Bruce- closer to 75mm – but I have a sneaking feeling that it (the difference in temperature) will not be terribly significant in this case

  • Alan Smith

    Photographs from the dismantled 800/48 tube. A few differences apparent, but nothing remarkable. Tomorrow I’ll crack the oxidised copper coating and see ‘what lies beneath.

    In order :- these show the quartz furnace tube and the wire-wrapped fuel-tube – note the silver glints where the silver leaf has melted through the copper and bonded onto the glass – removing it broke a few chips from the quartz which are adhering to the copper oxide coating.

    Next we have the fuel tube showing that the sooty coating -from the polyamide/polyester wire insulation – remaining in a few places is soft enough to rub off. The previous test at 1000C had no surface carbonation remaining after 48 hours.

    The third picture is the amorphous coating of silver that formed on parts of the lower surface of the tube, and the fifth is the more crystalline copper oxide coating in the upper surface of the tube.

    The fourth photograph shows a fragment of Quartz still bonded onto the silver/copper surface of the fuel tube. The bright colouration is a diffraction effect- not a real one.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/448c7da4da06d6527f257157d74b4c02f622a8c7a8ab9225a583dbd6018578b3.jpg
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ad02ff6122ddefd632a2e7a87d368bd68d3a1866b0da508ab0460738f4988de1.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dd835946a324eb312a3edeaa862b83a7555d89ba1cc04f9c76b1c24028ef2871.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/858f7337b56f14832e47f176f0f7cd093010a3eb5971b4ccb7f13400400cd953.jpg
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cd3dd445f37ff2248dc8f4a2d66f2ddc2779e3fb96e74a826e4acfabb128c1cc.jpg

    • Engineer48

      Hi Alan,

      Excellent work. Nice to see the Cu oxide crystallisation and the silver pooling then bonding the Cu oxide to the quartz. Chemistry wins.

      Nice base line to move onto deuterated fuel discs testing.

  • Alan Smith

    There looks to be more un-oxidised copper just below the surface of this sample, and the form of the wire is much more visible. Also the colour of the wrapping is darker and less lustrous than the coating on the 1000C sample. More photos soon.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      One possible reason why parts of the copper in Lion’s experiment did not oxidize is escaping hydrogen. Bruce_H suggested elsewhere a control run with light water. Perhaps an option in a later phase of this project. IMHO it would be an ideal setup since both the thermal properties and the chemical behaviour of H2O and D2O are very similar.

      • Alan Smith

        Andreas – there is no hydrogen involved AFAIK..Unless you know otherwise. And it it does escape, hot hydrogen departs immediately for the stratosphere, it doesn’t hang around inside an open ended horizontal tube furnace.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          AFAIK the pads in Lion’s experiment have been soaked in heavy water. The water might have been reduced by carbon and/or via catalysis. Escaping hydrogen would either fly away or react chemically. (The last option seems more likely at high temperatures).

        • Stephen

          While there are carbon deposits in there perhaps from the polymer. These may also burn off and reduce the oxygen… a bit like is done in oxygen reduction in Raku Pottery. Normally this is done in enclosed but not sealed containers though.

          In longer runs or hotter runs of course all the polymer may be burned off leaving more oxygen for oxidization of the copper.

          Edit but if anything in that case you would expect less oxygen and more reduction of metal oxides at the far end of the reactor. Which seems the opposite way round to what we observe.

          Curiously though in LION it looked like some of the polymer coating the wires didn’t even melt in some locations let alone burn off.

          • Alan Smith

            Stephen said ‘In longer runs or hotter runs of course all the polymer may be burned off leaving more oxygen for oxidization of the copper.’.

            The insulation burns off very quickly- there is mostly just carbon after 30 minutes at 800c, a little of which can still be seen after 48 hours. At 1000C even the carbon has mostly vanished.after 24 hours.

          • Stephen

            Yup I agree, and I think if anything in the case of oxygen reduction effects like metallic glazes or less oxidation of the wires we would expect less oxidation at the far end the reactor.

            What you see in the LION example is the opposite to that more oxidation deeper in and unmelted metalic copper wire closer to the opening so I think that effect is not occurring here.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Stephen,

            Yes there is fairly clear evidence that some localised heat source generated a thermal gradient very much steeper and different than that produced by the heating coils wrapped around the quartz tube.

            The melted blob seen inside the cracked alumina Lion 2 fuel tube could be the source of the localised heat.

            However Lion/Neil stated he did not know what the melted blob was.

          • Stephen

            Interesting point about the blob and local heating there…

            By the way there maybe a small typo in the last part of your post. Auto correct can be a real pain I suspect. just to be polite.

            Very curious what that dark material in the alumina is. Is it polymer, carbon or something else diffused into the alumina? Must be intriguing to someone who knows really materials like you do. I wonder if there is anything in nature or other kiln work that shows something similar?

  • Alan Smith

    Bob will possibly come to my laboratory to witness the next run with LION fuel. Hopefully he will bring the tube with him.

    • Bob Greenyer

      That is my intention.

  • Alan Smith

    800C 48 Hr update – and more.

    There is indeed considerably more metallic copper present inder the surface oxide coating in this sample than in the 1000C run. Scraping the oxide coating off almost anywhere along its length, most readily done away from the silver-impregnated parts reveals bare copper beneath with a thin band of crystalline CuO visible beneath and between.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1a93d0207767ee0dcff7a2f3ae493ede9e2aa311a96fa681ef0e4e7f8f1a9efa.jpg .

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ff3ab5359035fe13a67c5908c020fec250c105b1c0d2efd53a896a27a7af38d2.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/be43dbd3b7b062d5e84ab7120049d9407ec0b9155fdac1253a0885b62b000c2a.jpg

  • Alan Smith

    Diamonds and Deuterium.

    The detached diamond pads have been baked at 200C for exactly 7 days, and have been quenched in D2O, where they will remain for the next 30 days. This, as I understand it is the LION protocol. Small variation, instead of dropping hot pads into D20, I added D20 to a porcelain crucible holding them as soon as it came out of the oven for maximum thermal shock. Photos below are of the process, showing the pads after quenching being transferred into more D20 for long-term storage, and a couple of diamond close-ups. Pads btw are 2.5mm in diameter, and roughly 120-150 microns thick.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/72f78b947eb1bfb51287b63df7bb0589555b025910632ebb7e6d07b85fef82a4.jpg
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/df8d0541c9406de232475fe7fe54ec51eda069338773d1e22bf5d961e6147af9.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/52a18681b5d7daf3932105ae8893451cb0b71a99ac04a27e3dcfba886d8097a1.jpg
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/efff77e3892736ac16024651dffe668558537655d6a8f3d950edbf9f85298e89.jpg

    • LION

      Hi ALAN,
      THANKS for all you are doing, love the pic of the Diamond close up.

    • magicsnd1

      How many discs are used in a fuel load? I’m processing enough for several, and want to divide them up appropriately. I think Bob Greenyer counted 10 but that seems low to me.

      • magicsnd1

        Here’s a quick video
        of loading 2 batches of 30 into D2O

        goo.gl/YdU8na

        • Bob Greenyer

          Nice video Alan G!

          Thanks for making/sharing

  • Alan Smith

    Building another kind of control today, a ‘witches cauldron’ containing all the non-diamond ingredients of the reactor mixed together which will be exposed to very high heat for 48 hours as before. I hope that this will help in clarifying the difference between purely thermal anomalies and LENR anomalies. More on this as I assemble it.

  • Alan Smith

    If we have to replicate everything down to nano-level to get something to work, it is no more than a one-off scientific curiosity, for even the original inventor could never duplicate his results. It would be a chimera, a creature seen dimly in the darkness that dissapeared and was never seen again. And as such would not be worth bothering with.

  • magicsnd1

    Here’s a simple precursor test under way. The fire brick is K-26, rated to 1450°C. A small concave area holds 1/2 sheet of Silver leaf, on which a 2-meter coiled length of AWG23 Copper magnet wire is placed. The oven will heat to 1000°C over 60 minutes, and hold for 120 minutes before shutting off. The goal is to see if the copper melting temp (1083°C) will be lowered by the presence of molten silver, and if so, whether it will soak into the porous fire brick. Depending on the result, a longer test may follow.

    This is also interesting in that Ag and Cu are immiscible when liquid, so forming an alloy is not normally possible.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bcb9de87081597c8176ff6c17f836aaf8f9886d19280957de0a82cdc952cdd8b.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6f301b478bddf7df89201248c06c82ddc89fc7f5b119ebcb8c130aa47b56ad13.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8a229b5cd7781b99ebcaf00051296b9e838a5fe7ba96d810e1cc01ae7d5b3f69.jpg

    • magicsnd1

      Here’s the result, after about 180 minutes at ~1000°C. The copper wire
      is oxidized completely: though it retained its shape, it’s brittle and
      visibly crystallized in the cross-section. The silver is presumably in
      the black spots on the brick, as silver oxide. No trace of absorption
      into the brick is visible.

      My conclusion is that the strange morphology seen in the LION aftermath
      is due to something far beyond the normal high-temperature behavior of
      these metals and refractories. This may be obvious in retrospect, but I
      like to test assumptions when it’s easy. Carry on! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a5c251986223691e0c588cf47cd4f7f8ea6622539ad18a8a2470707be86d13f1.jpg

      • Bob Greenyer

        VERY VALUABLE and key test.

        Thankyou Alan G!

  • Bob Greenyer

    Hi Rob,

    As far as I understand, the industrial Diamond + Nickel + D2O forms the ovary – the copper is where the main action happens, where the blastocyst is gestated and grown.

    I think one diamond disc is all that is needed assuming the diamond tips are sufficiently in the right orientation to the field.