Rossi: Leonardo Corp. Now Owned By a Trust of Investors

Andrea Rossi has just made a post in connection with the recent offer of Dick Smith to pay a million dollars for a successful E-Cat test.

I AM RECEIVENG EMAILS REGARDING THE “MILLIONAIRE2 WHO OFFERS 1 MILLION FOR A TEST AND REGARDING WHAT WE THINK OF SOME WANNABE COMPETITORS WHO WILL MAKE OTHER TESTS ON A DEVICE OF THEM: I HAVE NOT TIME TO ANSWER SINGULARLY, SO HERE IS THE FINAL ANSWER:
1- MILLIONAIRE TEST: I AM THE CEO OF LEONARDO CORPORATION AND RECENTLY LEONARDO CORPORATION BECAME PROPERTY OF A TRUST OF INVESTORS TO WHOSE ATTORNEYS I HAVE TO ANSWER. THIS, COMBINED WITH THE FACT THAT OUR 1 MW PLANTS HAVE BEEN SOLD TO AN ENTITY THAT WANTS NOT TO BE DISCLOSED (WE ARE UNDER NDA) FORBIDS ME TO TAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THIS ISSUE WITHOUT THE PERMISSIONS OF THE ATTORNEYS; THE OPINION OF THEM IS THAT THIS STUNT IS NOT SERIOUS AND THAT OUR TECHNOLOGY DOES NOT TO BE PROVEN BY A STUNT, BUT BY A REGULAR OPERATION BY THE CUSTOMERS. WE HAVE TO WORK ON MANUFACTURING LINES TO MAKE RELIABLE AND ECONOMIC OUR PRODUCTS.
2- COMPETITORS: WE NEVER COMMENT ON OUR COMPETITORS, BUT STILL WE DO NOT SEE ANY COMPETITOR ON THE MARKET. WHEN WE WILL FIND PRODUCTS WHICH WILL COMPETE WITH OURS, THEN WE WILL HAVE COMPETITORS, BUT NOW IS NOT THE CASE. I AM ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT WITH OUR PRICES NOBODY WILL BE ABLE TO COMPETE, ALSO FOR THE NEW TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE DEVELOPED FOR THE E-CATS AND FOR THE PRODUCTION LINE WE ARE MAKING.
I WILL NOT ANSWER TO FURTHER QUESTIONS REGARDING THE MILLIONAIRE AND THE WANNABE COMPETITORS.
WARM REGARDS,
ANDREA ROSSI

It’s very interesting to see that Leonardo Corp. is now apparently owned by an outside entity, and Rossi is apparently not fully in charge of the company he founded. He gives no details about the organization, but presumably there will be some kind of board of directors overseeing his operations who he will now answer to. They will naturally advise him on important issues, and he says their attorneys have done so in the Dick Smith Case.

The good news for Rossi would of course be that he should now have the funding he needs to build his manufacturing and commercial operations. If this is the case, there is little wonder he is not interested in a chance to earn a million dollars from giving Dick Smith a demo.

  • Ged

    I take everything back: This is a good reason to deny doing the test. If it’s no longer in Rossi’s hands, and he has to answer to a higher power (as more CEOs do), then the matter is closed.

    • Josh

      Only one slight problem: it’s again his word, without any external proof or circumstantial support.

      I don’t believe any word that comes out his mouth.

      • Ged

        Then believe hard facts instead.

        Rossi has produced devices, a number of, and which we’ve all seen. To do that requires funding and resources and personnel. They cannot have come out of thin air.

        Hence, there is a source behind Rossi as proven simply by the past–and you are focusing too much on one man.

        • Josh

          We saw nothing. Any one can connect pumps and wires and heat water.

          Unless ALL input and output are convincingly measured, and as long as he refused to allow such tests, he present the exact signature of a hoax.

          • Ged

            You aren’t paying any attention to what I’m saying. The materials to make those boxes, no matter what they were or how they were working, is a large undertaking. Pay attention to the actual physical objects, and what had to go into their production.

            Again, I’m not talking about if they are working by LENR or if they are just some hoaxy electric heater. The fact so many of them were -made at all- and stuck in a cargo container requires resource, people, and funding. And then there were the other e-cats previously made and seen by many before this. That’s a lot of metal and parts!

          • Roger Bird

            Josh, I think that you may need to do a lot more reading on this matter. Don’t get the idea that we-all in the cheering squad are stupid and gullible. We are hopefully optimistic because we have put in the time to do the reading and studying.

            And I would imagine that most if not almost all in the cheering squad do not believe that Rossi or Defkalion has proven their cases. But it looks very positive, and Defkalion has cast their die, painted themselves into a corner, and better deliver in a few months or their credibility is dead.

  • Ged

    By the way, I think this is the web site to the Leonardo Corporation http://www.leonardocorp1996.com/index_eng.htm . You can see where it’s located and what it produces (basically, it’s Rossi’s old Petroldragon, but more developed). To produce those products the corporation must have a large staff and manufacturing team, which explains where and how Rossi’s been producing E-cats previously. Also explains a constant source of income, and explains his knowledge of patent systems and how he does business.

    Furthermore, notice the EON logo, and the “EON srl is leader of manufacturing…”? Here is who EON srl is http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=25143955

    Looks like EON srl is a much larger corporation (dedicated to gas power, hence buying Leonardo Corp), and a subsidiary to an even larger corporation. These people would be the “Trust of Investors” that Leonardo Corporation is now owned by. This is now the new chain of command. Rossi is now under EON srl, who are under Enal SpA.

    • Ged

      By the way, if my analysis and digging into the matter are right, then this also explains fully how and why Rossi would be able to establish a robotisized factor capable of producing 1 million E-cats per year. He’s got the power of a much larger corporation behind him, and it’s their agenda.

      Basically, we’ve been focused on the public face (Rossi) of something -much- larger behind the scenes. If I’m right, but it’s always possible I could have dug the wrong direction.

  • Josh

    For anyone tired of Rossi screaming off him, here’s his words, in human capitalization.

    “I am receiveng emails regarding the “millionaire2 who offers 1 million for a test and regarding what we think of some wannabe competitors who will make other tests on a device of them: i have not time to answer singularly, so here is the final answer:

    1- millionaire test: i am the ceo of leonardo corporation and recently leonardo corporation became property of a trust of investors to whose attorneys i have to answer. This, combined with the fact that our 1 mw plants have been sold to an entity that wants not to be disclosed (we are under nda) forbids me to take decisions about this issue without the permissions of the attorneys; the opinion of them is that this stunt is not serious and that our technology does not to be proven by a stunt, but by a regular operation by the customers. We have to work on manufacturing lines to make reliable and economic our products.

    2- competitors: we never comment on our competitors, but still we do not see any competitor on the market. When we will find products which will compete with ours, then we will have competitors, but now is not the case. I am absolutely sure that with our prices nobody will be able to compete, also for the new technology we have developed for the e-cats and for the production line we are making.

    I will not answer to further questions regarding the millionaire and the wannabe competitors.

    Warm regards,

    Andrea Rossi”

    • dsm

      Josh

      Thanks. Here is a further anglification of the intended message 🙂

      Doug M

      “I am receiving numbers of emails regarding the “millionaire” who has offered $1 million for a re-test and I am receiving emails regarding what we think of some potential competitors who have said they will conduct tests on a device of their own: I don’t have the time to answer each email separately, so here is a final answer on these matters:

      1 – The millionaire test request: I am the CEO of leonardo corporation and recently leonardo corporation became the property of a trust of investors to whose attorneys I have to answer and consult.

      This, combined with the fact that our 1 mw plants have been sold to an entity that does not want us to disclose their details (we are under control of an NDA). This forbids me to take decisions about this matter without the permission of our attorneys; their opinion is that this stunt is not serious and that our technology does not to be proven by such a publicity stunt, but needs to be proven by regular operation by the customers that buy them. We have to focus on our manufacturing lines to make these products reliable and economic.

      2 – Competitors: we have adopted a policy of not commenting on our competitors, but at this time we do not see any competitor on the market.

      When we do see competing products, then we will have competitors, but right now that is not the case.

      I am absolutely sure that with our prices, nobody will be able to compete anyway, this also applies to the new technology we have developed for our e-cats and for the e-cat production line we are making.

      I will not respond further to questions regarding the millionaire and the competitors.

      Warm regards,

      Andrea Rossi”

  • PersonFromPorlock

    The E.ON Bloomberg reports on and the EON headquartered at Leonardo Corporation aren’t the same companies and don’t have the same URLs. This just looks like another transparent dodge.

    • Ged

      Do you have evidence they are not the same EON? That is Leonardo Headquarters, not EON headquarters on the Leonardo Corp page. Leonardo would just be a subsidiary.

      The EON on Bloomberg is Italian, like Rossi, and produces products in the same area as the Leonardo Corp I found. All evidence points to one in the same. But if you do have evidence contrary, I would love to hear. I want to dig into this and find the truth.

      • PersonFromPorlock

        The logo of E.ON and the EON logo on the Leonardo Corp. sites are entirely different. See http://www.eon-vendita.com/E-ON_VENDITA/sito/Locator.cfm?SectionID=98

        The email address is also different.

        Finally, I can’t read the street address under Leonardo Corp.’s ‘EON’ in any way except as saying that their EON is headquartered there.

        Now, maybe it’s some other ‘eon’, but I don’t think it’s the one in the Bloomberg report.

        • Ged

          I’m pretty sure it is, as I found clear connections linking back to Enel SpA. My post with the links is currently in moderation, but to make it short: Rossi’s Journal of Nuclear Physics lists Rossi as doing an E-cat test at that EON srl factory with Enel SpA–the factory does indeed exist. Enel SpA’s own 2010 financial report lists purchasing E.ON subsidiaries, and vice versa. Work by other people have said that Rossi directly owns EON srl, and we know from Bloomburg that is in turn owned by Enel SpA. All these corporations have many “sub sections” with their own head quarters, but all are energy sector. Leonardo Corp fits directly in the mandate of E.ON and Enel SpA.

          In the end, it all comes back to Enel. All of these are “investor owned” and run by a “trust of investors”. Enel is a HUGE corporation, dominating Europe’s energy field…

          So yes, I’m very confident the EON on Leonardo Corp’s page is the same EON as in the Bloomburg report, and as owned by Enel SpA’s trust of investors.

          This does make the assumption Rossi did indeed do a test of the e-cat with Enel SpA, so it could yet be wrong, but everything has been consistant so far. And if indeed Enel SpA is behind all this, that explains everything we’ve seen.

          • Josh

            First, Kudos for the digging.

            Now, a question. I wasn’t able to find an EON rsl mentioning in the Bloomberg report. Could you direct me to it?

          • Ged

            The Bloomberg report was actually on this E.ON Vendita Srl http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=25143955 owned by Enel SpA.

            It’s still possible Rossi’s EON Srl is a different one… I haven’t pinned it down completely. The games these corporations are playing with their names is really bogging me down.

        • Ged

          Here’s the direct evidence of Rossi owning EON Srl http://www.esowatch.com/en/index.php?title=Focardi-Rossi_Energy-Catalyzer#EON.C2.A0Srl_and_Leonardo_Corporation

          You can click the reference link. It’s the same EON srl as the Bloomberg report as owned by Enel SpA. This is a big and extraordinary confoluted web.

          • Ged

            Ok, it might not the same EON. I can’t say absolutely certain yet one way or the other yet, as I forgot that whole Vendita thing. There’s just the main Rossi doing a test with Enel SpA at a EON Srl factory connection, and hard to say yet if that’s true or not either.

          • Josh

            Rossi has performed a test in 2009 in Enel’s EON in Bondeno according to this source:

            http://www.nogw.com/download3/%5E1_rossi_cold_fusion_generator.pdf

            This could be the source of the claim presented by Bloomberg. I haven’t found anything connection Rossi to Enel after that.

          • Ged

            Wow, nice Josh! What I spent hours doing you found in a flash, haha.

            Yeah, that seems the biggest link at the moment, and the best out there, if tenuous.

          • Josh

            Ged, I should clarify that I don’t see this doc as a support for present Rossi’s claims, or as an evidence for a current connection between him and Enel, as you suggested.

            The doc is what it is, about a test in 2009 in one of Enel’s places. Nothing more, nothing less.

          • Ged

            Same.

            The issue is Leonardo Corp is just a subsidiary for EON, and most EONs are connected to Enel in some way, either directly owned or collaborating.

            And since Rossi did do a test at an EON factory that is the EON factory connected to the EON he owns or is owned by (the EON on the Leonardo site is that EON at least, but I’m not sure which EON that EON is); if that EON is also one Enel owns, then that means Enel owns Rossi. And thus Enel calls the shots in the end.

            So is that true or not?

            That’s the web I want to untangle and be able to give a definite answer about, but haven’t fully managed it.

          • Ged

            Well, I’ve posted the question about the connects to E.ON and Enel to Rossi himself! Currently in moderation on his site, so we’ll see if he answers me.

            Here’s my post for reference, in case it disappears in moderation:

            “Ged
            Your comment is awaiting moderation.
            February 15th, 2012 at 4:27 PM

            Dear Mr. Rossi,

            I am curious about the trust of investors. Is your company, Leonardo Corp, under the private corporation E.ON? I know you’ve previously reported using one of their factories for tests of the E-cat, with Enel. So are you also ultimately under Enel SpA’s umbrella? It would be really cool to know which or both or neither. Thank you for your time, and all the best!

            -Ged”

          • Ged

            Ok, my comment was apparently deleted. Dang, I was really hoping for an answer. Oh well, it shall have to remain a mystery for now!

        • Ged

          Finally, from Enel SpA’s 2010 financial report itself (linked in my post below still in moderation) of the companies in the US that Enel SpA directly owns in New Hampsire are: Consolidated Hydro New Hampshire Inc, Mascoma Hydro Corporation in New Hampshire, Sweetwater hydroelectric inc in New Hampshire.

          No stretch of the imagination says the Enel SpA could own Leonardo Corp through EON srl. This thing has its hooks everywhere… Oddly enough, the E.ON Vendita listed in the Bloomberg report is not listed in Enel’s financial list, so it’s hidden from their main report.

          I guess it is still possible Rossi’s EON srl is not the same as E.ON Vendita srl. In fact, there IS another EON Srl in Italy… one that makes produce! http://www.europages.co.uk/EON-SRL/bch-SEA-SEAC003167498-001-27-xx/company-information.html

          So, it could be smoke and mirrors by obfuscating with the EON srl language… But Rossi’s journal lists working with Enel SpA.

          In short.. I’m done now, haha. I’ve followed the web as far as I can go. The names are all obfuscated by the games the corporations are playing. I can’t wade through this at the moment.

    • Ged

      The plot thickens. Remember the gensets as one of the products on the Leonardo page?

      http://www.tognum.com/press/press-releases/presse-detail/news/tognum_to_supply_emergency_standby_gensets_to_eon_kernkraft/news_smode/images/cHash/f9c73efcdfb9c4fd7bd2a653e3108f69/

      There is an E.ON in Germany too, but E.ON Kernkraft rather than E.ON Srl, being supplied gensets by Tognum (in this instance, as this E.ON seems to be running a nuclear plant!). Again, all this is in the same realm and products as Leonardo. E.ON is apparently highly diverse and spread out. But I’ll keep digging.

    • Ged

      There is an E.ON in the UK, but this one produces Wind power turbines? http://www.eon-uk.com/EnergyExperience/481.htm

      Quite frankly, there is a mess of EONs, and this is getting hard to follow. I’m assuming they are all one in the same EON, and all of them are dedicated in the energy sector.

    • Ged

      Here is an Eon in Austin, TX that produces electric turbines for power generation in many fields of application http://www.manta.com/c/mm6cwny/eon

      That one is just plain “Eon”. But again, energy sector, this time with some small overlap with the E.ON-UK.

    • Ged

      Here’s more that corroborates, at least consistantly in sound, with what Rossi is saying above:

      “E.ON is one of the world’s largest investor-owned power and gas companies. At facilities across Europe, Russia, and North America, our more than 85,000 employees generated just under EUR93 billion in sales in 2010. We have an ambitious objective: to make energy cleaner and better wherever we operate.” From here http://www.eon.com/en/corporate/2035.jsp .

      Notice how E.ON is investor owned, a trust of investors, and is not public. That is another consistent thing I’ve seen between all the E.ON’s and Eon’s I’m finding.

      Also worth noting is “Our new strategy, whose motto is cleaner & better energy, will transform E.ON into a global provider of specialized energy solutions.” This would cover the E-cat.

      Also: “E.ON Group is segmented into global units (by function) and regional units (by country)”

      Still not sure if it’s the same EON and if they Leonardo Corp would be one of their “regional units”. This whole unit segmentation is part of what’s making this hard to untangle. So many EONs doing so many different things, with slight name changes–but again, all in energy sector focusing on renewable (such as Leonardo Corp). The narrative is at least consistant.

      Again, you could be right and it could be a smoke screen, but it’s looking likely to be all the same EON. I’ll dig around for one last post, if I find any more information and any clear connections with Leonardo. We may have to e-mail them and ask them directly… but which E.ON?

      • dsm

        Hmmmm

        E.ON eCat ?

        interesting 🙂

        Doug M

    • Ged

      Ok, I have found a clear connection:

      “It is remarkable that similar results have been obtained in the factory of EON in Bondeno (Ferrara, Italy) in a test performed with ENEL spa on June, 25th 2009 and in another sery of tests made in Bedford, New Hampshire (USA) in a lab of LTI with the presence of the DOE (November 19 2009) and of the DOD (November 20 2009)” as reported by Rossi’s journal thing http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=62.

      Here we have Enel SpA mentioned, and as we saw in the Bloomberg report, EON srl is owned by Enel SpA. So that EON should be the same one as the Leonardo EON: more on Enel SpA here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enel . The EON factory where the E-cat test supposedly took place does indeed exist and belong to this EON.

      So, in the end, we return to Enel SpA. Now, here’s the web site to Enel itself http://www.enel.com/en-GB/ . In an annual report for 2010 listing its holdings and profits, all that sort of stuff, Enel talks about purchasing E.ON Produzione. It also talks about some sub section of Enel being turned into E.ON Espana. The report can be read here http://www.enel.com/en-gb/doc/report2010/110504_enel_annual_report_2010.pdf

      E.ON is also listed as a competitor in some areas of the world, as bought by Enel in other areas, and as some Enel parts being turned into E.ON in yet other areas. In short, E.ON is very closely linked to Enel, and the two intermingle frequently and extensively.

      Rossi lists an EON srl factory that does exist as a place where he did an E-cat test with Enel SpA. Bloomberg lists Enel SpA as the owner of EON srl. And Leonardo Corp is indeed owned by EON srl (as found out by other people, and some people I’ve read claim EON srl is actually owned by Rossi).

      So, I think the evidence is heavily in favor of Leonardo Corp being ultimately owned by Enel SpA. This would be the “trust of investors”.

      This is a huge, very huge, and very convoluted web. It’s still possible that we are being mislead. But I trust Bloomberg and Enel’s own financial reports. We are still assuming Rossi did do the test with Enel SpA, and that’s the one weak link. None the less, there is a constant consistency here, and I see nothing amiss: and it explains Rossi’s “trust of investors”. Enel and E.ON are all in this same energy sector as Rossi, and would have a high amount to gain from a working e-cat; they are also extremely powerful energy corporations dominating Europe and having holds in North America.

  • Josh

    Cool. A mysterious owner of an entity which belonged to the same man who claims to have sold a device operating on a mysterious process to a mysterious customer.

    Cut the BS.

  • Roger Bird

    If Rossi means by “no competitors” that his E-cat is sufficiently cheaper than the Hyperion that he is in a different market, then (assuming that he has an actual working machine), he does have no competitors. Hyperion (assuming that it actually works) with 5 cores and a range of 5 kW to 25 kW would almost certainly be too expensive for my family. But if Rossi means by “no competitors” the first to get a successful LANR to market, then he may very well be disappointed, by Defkalion.

    • dsm

      Quote “may very well be disappointed, by Defkalion.”

      The ‘may’ in your comment really negates it.

      You might just as well have said “may very well be pleased, by Defkalion” – because of the way you worded it, no variant offers any surety.

      Cheers

      Doug M

      • Roger Bird

        I wasn’t trying to give surety. I am not a uncertainty-phobe. I was trying to imply that Rossi may beat Defkalion to the market.

        • dsm

          Sorry Roger,

          I read it the reverse 🙂

          ## 1 ##
          But if Rossi means by “no competitors” the first to get a successful LANR to market, then he may very well be disappointed, by Defkalion.
          #######

          ## 2 ##
          “I was trying to imply that Rossi may beat Defkalion to the market.”
          #######

          Still can’t figure out how point 2 comes from point 1 ?

          Cheers

          Doug M

          • Roger Bird

            Doug, I used the word “may” to indicate that it was not certain the Defkalion would beat Rossi. (:->)

            Roger

  • Kim

    I read a book once called:

    Alice in Wonderland.

    Respect
    Kim

  • georgehants

    1888PressRelease.comNanoSpire, Inc.
    Successfully Harnesses Cavitation Zero Point Energy to Produce Dramatic Levels of Fusion & Transmutation In Water
    http://www.1888pressrelease.com/nanospire-inc-successfully-harnesses-cavitation-zero-point-pr-372884.html

    • sapain

      good article, 3 methods of lenr.
      nickel, hydrogen.
      palladium, deutrium.
      sonic compression.

      so the term bigger is better is getting replaced by smaller is better yet.

      the wonderful world of nano.

      • georgehants

        And the Quantum.

    • s

      What is the output power produced? If the out put power is low (mW to Watt range) can it be easily scaled up to useful levels? The problem with LENR is not whether it works, but whether it can be made to work in a commercially viable manner.

    • dsm

      A heavy read 🙂 But I extracted what I think is a key para for people who find the whole doc heavy going …

      Doug M

      QUOTE:
      The discovery of the zero point energy based LeClair Effect triggering fusion, fission and large scale elemental transmutation by Mark LeClair and Serge Lebid was historic and could solve both the energy and natural resource crisises. The LeClair Effect explains excess heat and transmutation observed in electrolytic cells (Pons, Fleischmann & others) and by hydrodynamic means such as the Griggs pump or sonofusion (ultrasound), cavitation is present in all of them. The current technology could easily provide large scale production of hot water for residential, commercial and industrial hot water at a capital and operating cost far lower than fossil fuel, nuclear and other LENR-based technologies. NanoSpire is currently seeking investors, licensees or joint venture partners to accelerate commercialization and development of the technology.

  • georgehants

    Rossi does not sound like a man trying to sell something, he sounds like a man who has already sold something and does not give a toss what any detractors say.
    His threat to sue Defkalion could put the brakes on their endeavours.
    Time will tell.

    • dsm

      George – good point

      Yesterday I asked Rossi if he had any thoughts about suing Defkalion – he answered 🙂
      (as per the topic of this thread).

      Also,
      I have posted the actual question I asked of Andrea here …

      (see: dsm Reply February 15, 2012 at 8:31 pm)
      http://ecatnews.com/?p=2038

      Doug M

      • georgehants

        Doug M, good post, Rossi has laid out what is to happen, will just have to wait and see.
        Hope no delay to release from any source though.

  • Henk de Boer

    This was dodge #15 – or was it #16 – and many more to follow. Read the sad story of Pons and Fleischmann

    • What’s the story of Pons and Fleischmann got to do with it?

      • Henk de Boer

        Because they used the same kind of dodging questions. Forever and ever. Until there was no story left to tell…

  • I wouldn’t trust him if I were an investor, but it’s not my money.

  • Bruno

    “THE FACT THAT OUR 1 MW PLANTS HAVE BEEN SOLD TO AN ENTITY THAT WANTS NOT TO BE DISCLOSED (WE ARE UNDER NDA) FORBIDS ME TO TAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THIS ISSUE” What does this have to do with testing his device for a $1M prize? Supposedly he’s sold other 1MW ecats to other companies, so the fact that the 1st “customer” prefers to remain anonymous doesn’t preclude him from doing commerce/tests with others. It just sounds fishy.

    • Frank

      “THE OPINION OF THEM [the attorneys] IS THAT THIS STUNT IS NOT SERIOUS AND THAT OUR TECHNOLOGY DOES NOT TO BE PROVEN BY A STUNT, BUT BY A REGULAR OPERATION BY THE CUSTOMERS

      Ok I see – we have to blame the (so bad) attorneys for not getting the a-cat claims proven ;-(

      • Not just any attorneys. Attorneys who went to school and studied how to tell whether or not stunts are serious instead of the law.

    • Omega Z

      @ Bruno

      Rossi did state that he had 1 Customer who would disclose & allow people to see it in action once received & setup.

      As there are a dozen more to be built for the first customer this could be awhile. 1st come 1st serve. Even the 1st one sold is still being refitted for the original customer with new Controls by National Instruments.

      From Rossi’s own statements it could be a year before this customer receives theirs. The Home units will probably be available before this happens.

      A 1Mw E-cat has at least a hundred Units involved in it with 3 cells in each. Plus they have to be daisy chain assembled. The 1Mw units are still manually built. This takes time.

      Only time will tell.

  • Lu

    I believe Rossi knows that attorney’s provide advice to CEO’s but that CEO’s and directors actually make corporate decisions. And an attorney’s opinion that the “STUNT IS NOT SERIOUS” is not legal advice. For this reason I believe Rossi is not telling the truth here.

    • He can be forgiven for this, even though it sounds silly, because he is expressing himself in a foreign language. If you want evidence and proof that Rossi is not telling the truth I would bark up the UL tree. Has anybody heard anything from UL that supports Rossi’s claim that they are indeed testing his ecat devices? Also Rossi claims that the device does not produce radiation. Hyperion/Defkalion admits that theirs does. Gamma rays emitted by a device changes the game completely, and the device then requires FDA approval. FDA is a government entity and applications and the process is available to the public.

      • Ged

        Someone needs to e-mail them and see if we can get an answer. Not sure exactly how to frame an e-mail… as they may not be allowed to disclose such details, or not care to do so to us. So we’d need to write it in a way that’ll motivate them.

        • There was already an article on this blog a few days ago which was about Rossi claiming that his e-cat does not produce gamma rays. He claimed that there is some sort of a transducer which turns things off if any are detected. Does that qualify as a radiation producing device? I dunno. You tell me.

        • Omega Z

          It’s been awhile since I read about it, But Rossi is connected to the company that sells the Genset generators. Maybe Leonardo. Not sure.
          Maybe this will help with the EON trail.

          A Genset was also used at the Oct. 28th test. I remember it was rated at substantially lower generating capacity then the 470Kw output of the 1Mw E-cat.

          Anyone who Researches LENR knows it’s real. The only real question is if Rossi found a way to keep it stable.
          His early tests produced much higher output, but he scaled it back for stability & sustainability.
          If they’ve mastered this it’s very likely they’ll gradually scale it back up to higher temps & COP factor as there understanding of the process increases.

      • Lu

        I think Rossi is hiding behind his statement and he knows what he said.

        Actually Hank Mills has independently indicated that Rossi’s UL application is in process. However this doesn’t mean much and Rossi has avoid giving any details. All Rossi has stated is that it’s started and he’s actually never stated that the UL has an E-Cat in their possession. I would not be surprise that the home E-Cat release is held up because of the UL. How convenient.

        I agree that Gamma’s are serious. Rossi as been inconsistent about them. I can see that he doesn’t want to say they they are produced because it may hold up certification. Defkalion is calling their Hyperion a heater.

        • Ged

          If UL is processing an application of Rossi’s, that increases Rossi’s credibility again. As of yet, we’ve never caught him in a blatant lie. NI is working on the E-cat, as Rossi said, so is UL?

          If we can trust him on that, we can give him more benefit of the doubt on other, even more dubious, claims. So, it is important we know the truth even of the minor details.

          • Lu

            For him to be able to sell E-Cats in a year’s time he needs to have submitted a UL application by now. But anyone can do that so it in itself does not provide much credibility, especially since he’s given no details at all only saying that the process has started, which we already know.

            Rossi’s statements are never what they seem. A certain amount of that should be expected but it is also true that he has to earn any credibility we give him. And in that regard, he is becoming less and less credible as things progress, IMO because of responses like the one above.

            The closer we get to 2013 with no independent verification that the E-Cat works the less credible he becomes.

          • Ged

            The credibility I’m talking about is that he said he submitted to UL, and you’re saying there might be independent confirmation of this being true, by UL. The issue is just that he said he did, and UL backs it up–so far everything he’s said he’s done, others have indeed backed up.

            It would be a -huge- issue if UL had denied that.

      • Omega Z

        Charles

        If I remember right, Rossi has also stated production of Gamma, but is absorbed into the lead liner/ converted to heat. The radiation level outside the cell falls within the normal background radiation levels we experience in nature. The radiation is short lived about 20 minutes & takes an hour to shut down an E-cat before it can be handled. Hyperion is much the same. Radiation isn’t a problem at low levels. Most people don’t realize that the gas burner on a cook stove generates or releases some radiation as all flames do & pretty much all matter that I’m aware of.

    • Omega Z

      This was an offer posted on WEB sites. Everyone Dick Smith could find. His statement.

      There was never any contact between Rossi & Dick Smith.

      This claimed by Both Rossi & Dick Smith. Neither actually know each other.

      Dick Smith also stated that he would never put the money in escrow. Also a requirement from DGT.

      This is nothing but an attempt to Discredit Rossi. It’s a smear campaign to disaffect his supporters. There will probably be more to come….

  • clovis

    Hey, you’all
    Great move Mr. Rossie, dam things are looking up.

  • Jim

    hmm, reading all the comments, even his supporters are getting tired of his rants and excuses.

    • Ged

      With the way things are looking, he might be turning into just “the PR guy”, not the main man calling the shots anymore. We’ll see if he answers the question I left on his site.

    • dsm

      Whoose ‘rants’ – where ?

      Rossi has been remarkably forthcoming in replying to us plebs. He responded to 3 questions I put to him this week at JoNP

      I did expect the last question might provoke a reaction and it did but he answered it none the less.

      If he refused to answer anything a whole group of people would diss him for that. Because of the nature of the Rossi invention he is damned if he does & damned if he doesn’t.

      Just wait to when the eCats come out (as planned by Leonardo Corp). He will be both praised and attacked no matter what the 1st production boxes do.

      Here are a couple of potential attack topics …
      – Why doesn’t it generate electricity ?
      – Why can’t I use it to heat my house ‘out of the box’ ?
      – Why didn’t Rossi set up some 3rd party add on vendors ? (what was Defkallion supposed to be doing before they ‘borrowed’ his LENR design)
      – Why doesn’t Rossi give them to the poor for free ? (he must be filthy rich now (when they appear))
      – Why do they only put out COP 6 ?
      – Why can I run my car with an mark 1 eCat ?
      – Why why why why ad-infinitum
      – (invent your own future rant)

      Cheers

      Doug M

      • Omega Z

        @ Doug M

        I Agree.

        As for people’s comments on investors. They would be Investors even if it were as partnerships. Rossi has stated new Partners involved a couple times. This would include consulting with them on everything that involves the E-cat as they would have a financial stake in it.

        He has stated or indicated that nearly everything to do with the E-cat would be contracted out except for the E-cat cell itself.

        As for these people coming forward, Not likely at this time. They wouldn’t want to deal with the onslaught on the NET among all the other publicity. Only after it’s on the market.

  • AstralProjectee

    OMG I hope that the new company that owns Leonardo Corp is not going to can the E-cat. As I have heard of other small companies that got brought out by a big company. Then the big company didn’t develop the product. Even though it would have been good for the people but not for the company. As the company already has other things on the market that would go down in price because of it.

    Even if that happened we still have Defkalion and a few others coming out soon.

    Peace!

  • daniel maris

    Been reading up on Dick Smith.

    He is a founder member of Australian Sceptics and a close associate of James Randi – whose website has hosted an aggressive anti-cold fusion campaign (and who were basically denying hte reality of LENR up until the NASA announcement).

    He opposes population growth in Australia. One thing is clear – with supercheap LENR you could have a 100 million people living on Australia if you wanted (I’m not saying it’s a good idea). So, he has the motive (Malthusian Scepticism), the method (money) and the opportunity (the offer).

  • Stephen

    Whatever… this guy lost any possible credibility in my eyes.

  • s

    This may have escaped people’s notice, but does it sound like Rossi is possibly no longer making all the decisions about the Ecat? Also, if he had money from sales, how did a trust come to own his company? Also, if he were so close to making billions or trillions of dollars from selling the Ecat, why would he allow a trust to buy/takeover his company? In my opinion only, something possibly does not seem quite right about this arrangement.

    • The arguement has been that he cannot hope to expand in a big way fast without investment.

      This is news and the hint is not small potatoes.

      I think therefore I imagine until there is more than 1 customer.

    • Stephen

      I think the logic is loose and contradictory because this is a fairy tale. Probably the attorney is a troll…

      Reality instead is always boringly self-consistent… I think it is its most characteristic “trademark”.

  • ora600

    ENEL (Ente Nazionale Energia Elettrica): Is the Italian national company for electricity. It’s a public company, it operate all over the world but controlled by The Italian Government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enel)
    Leonardo corp (leonardocorp1996.com) as site is hosted by a small Italian internet provider in Bologna (Italy). No trace of EON Srl.
    I really do not think this company is in USA and is building a 1Million e-cat factory.
    For a factory of that size you should have land, buildings, suppliers, contracts, energy, water, etc etc. I think would be rather difficult to hide all this activity considering that Mr Rossi is initiative is carefully observed.
    I’d love were true but it’s a scam.

  • andrea b

    AR = Hilarious. Can’t wait to see the obvious conclusion. So much fun! Thanks.

  • dsm

    Just want to thank all the folk who have posted so much helpful and informative information. Todays links are a gold mine of information.

    To the others who stick to rants that call Rossi a liar, fraudster, criminal, the devil or some other offensive remark. Such posts are space wasters unless you post informative data in support of your POV, emotion & guesses don’t contribute a thing.

    Too many people really need to put themselves on tranquilizers before posting. Perhaps some have been taking the opposite which is probably worse.

    Cheers

    Doug M

    • Omega Z

      @ Doug M

      People can’t help it. We live in a point & Click society. In the real World things take much more time. If Rossi gets a plant up & into production by this fall would be making excellent progress.

      Rossi doesn’t always come across very clear in his statements. English is a second language for him. This contributes to some of the confusion & misinterpretations. Statements contributed to him that he didn’t actually make or taken out of context. We wont even mention Goggle translate. Then the people who read to fast or just skim & don’t take time to comprehend the Info.

      I think to many people have unrealistic expectations of the E-cat. It is after all, just a souped up water heater at this time. Everything else will come much latter. This is new tech & will have to be further advanced & improved upon before it becomes practical. All you can expect from the E-cat at this time is heat & hot water. If that’s all you expect, you won’t be disappointed.

      Electrical production is a totally different thing. If your the only one producing electricity with an E-cat you could probably feed back enough to the grid to cancel out most or all of your electric bill. In reality this wont happen. If everyone has one then there’s no market to sell to. No feeding back.

      There’s also the problem of conversion Efficiency. I’ve researched this enough to know that 1/3rd conversion is the norm. There is research that looks promising, but whether it will be cost efficient isn’t known yet. Doesn’t matter if they were to reach 60% to 80% efficiency if it costs a hundred grand to install.

      The Idea after all, is to have cheap energy. Not something that costs more.

      The biggest problem is most people don’t understand how much or how little a 10Kw E-cat produces. Converted to electric power would run maybe two 1500 watt blow dryers to dry your hair. To run an Electric car would probably require 10 10Kw E-cats or 1 that produces 100Kw.

      There’s many obstacles to overcome with electrical conversion to be practical. It’s going to take years.

      • dragon

        If this “souped up water heater” goes on the market and it works as advertised. I know for sure that the next 6 moths the whole world will change dramatically.

        It will be in 3 stages:
        1.Thousand of engineers will integrate this in thousands of everyday items.
        2.Millions of handy-man will put it to work in very ingenious ways.
        3.Billions of people will scream to their governments to put their budges in this “souped up water heater” technology.

        How is that for slow changes?

        • Omega Z

          I hope your right. But I doubt it. The shear scale of the task says it will take time. Couple decades.
          At present it would take possibly a Billion E-cats at present scale just for the private sector in the U.S. alone. That’s without Electric.

          People thought the same if Electric cars hit the market. A decade latter & there still stumbling to get on there feet & it’s subsidized. This is because of technical circumstances. Distance, power storage, cost, production development, etc…

          A 10Kw E-cat sounds impressive, & is in it’s concept. In reality it can heat a 1000 Sq Ft home that’s well insulated. If you live where temps drop below 10 degrees for any length of time, you’ll need another E-cat or backup heating system. The average home in the U.S is something like 2500 Sq Ft plus.

          The E-cat has to be greatly improved & as competitors come to market there will have to be a technical standards setup or aftermarket add-ons will be slow to appear & expensive.

          Installation will require additional components & technical labor. For most this will cost comparable to a new heating system. 4 to 5 grand at least. High efficient furnaces have been available for 20 years. Millions still do not have them. COST. They replace them when they have to. Not because they don’t want to.

          Electric conversion isn’t very efficient. 1/3rd is norm. There’s the problem of on demand electric. The grid handles this because of scale. An individual home has major problems involved. You need peak & minimum capacity ability instantly.

          A lot of problems to work out & overcome. Appliances that use 110V or 220. Does this require 2 separate generating systems? 50Hz verses 60Hz. Things we take for granted suddenly becomes a problem to be worked out all over again.

          A 10Kw E-cat converts to about 15,000 BTU. It should be able to replace a 50,000 BTU High efficiency 95% Nt. Gas furnace Most of the time if you have an insulated hot water reservoir.

          • Joe Ross

            10000 watts converts to about 34000 BTU of heat, enough for medium size well insulated houses most of the time. Throw in essentially free hot water and you have a winner.

  • If Rossi’s lawyers know it all why don’t they advise him to hire somebody to do his PR? The man could use some sound advice in that department.

    • Steve Robb

      Glad to hear you are back on your meds and giving sound advice.

      • Glad to hear you are glad but I have to say I worry about ecat gamma rays interfering with your brain waves.

  • Roberto

    If some corporation wanted to “push the world” with this technology, al least in Italy AR had probably the best profile ever in order to well perform the task.

  • Steve Robb

    Perhaps with a Board of Directors on board they will tell Rossi to sit down and stop shouting least he send them all into the drink.

  • the snake

    What a pity Rossi even doesn’t know about the investors in the trust, because he’s only talking to their attorneys. So unfortunately Rossi can’t tell any details, like always.

  • Alexvs

    This is the expected step of a good elaborated scam. Same as Perendev motor case. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

  • Stephen

    Provided this seems a nice fairy tale, that probably the attorney is a troll and an army of pixies is building billions of E-cats in the Land of Elves… What really surprises me is always the human factor: what does push this kind of people in doing what they do? They guy already spent some time in prison for similar stories.

    A second interesting question is what pushes ME to read about all this… 🙂 maybe some nostalgic feeling but, yeah, I’ll probably stop. The time has come.

    Btw, warning. I read that the Petroldragon scam lasted for over 15 years: I hope you are not in a hurry to find out if E-cats really work or not. Might take some time. In addition the story of the movies of this saga is a bit always the same… the final seems predictable.

  • Johannes Hagel

    I believe in LENR and that it will trigger an energy revolution. However, I dont any longer believe that there will come something usefull from Rossi. Building up lines for mass production of a product, should this not have visible effects to any site where it takes place? Should this not be noticed just NOW??? Where are these factories actually built just TODAY? THis cannot be hidden, or am I mistaken?

  • Alexvs

    From my own experience, if you have a lot of work to do you would not loose your time writing e-mails such as the one in this thread. It is true, Mr. Rossi always answers questions, but this response reflects arrogancy and arises a lot of new questions. As said before, this phase, i.e. an investor group landing on Leonardo Corporation is typical of several known scams.

  • Sanjeev

    [quote]…apparently owned by an outside entity, and Rossi is apparently not fully in charge of the company he founded. He gives no details about the organization, but presumably there will be some kind of board of directors …[quote]

    I like your use of words apparently, presumably and so on. This is what I mean when I say that Rossi’s statements do not have any substance. There is nothing concrete there. Almost 99% of time.

    Of course, this does not throw any light on whether Ecat works, only on the man.

    When a company makes a major move like this, e.g change of ownership, they issue public notices, press releases and what not. The whole BOD’s names are made public. (It is like this in my place, don’t know about Italy and US).

    Can someone name at least *one* other person in Rossi’s co ? Name of his janitor will also add some substance ;)?

    This army of lawyers he says, can anyone interview one of them ? One name ?

    He can still reverse the damage caused to his reputation and to Ecat by publishing some concrete info.

    I trust DGT more on this, they are more transparent and I look at them with more hope than ever. I know that my trust or distrust or opinions do not matter, just posting like everyone else here. I prefer to post facts about Ecat, but there are so few of them nowadays.

    • ora600

      In Italy is the same. Every board member change is recorded in a public registry that anyone can inquiry. If Leonardo is owned by a new trust this must result in the registry.

      • Ged

        If you read Italian and have access to such business data repositories, could you look for us? I only know a little of French and Ancient Greek, not much use in unraveling the mysteries here, sadly.

    • Ged

      BOD’s are made public at least in the case of publically traded corporations. However, if a corporation is privately owned, like E.ON and its various incarnations, then you could in theory keep your “trust of investors” who run the company a secret. I’m not completely sure on all the business laws, but private companies are, after all, private.

      And unless you believe Rossi assembled the entire 52 e-cat containing 1 MW plant by himself, got a shipping container by himself, put them all in, wired them all, installed all the plumbing, and hooked them all up to the computers for recording and control himself… Then yes, he has to have people working for him. Personally, I don’t think Rossi is a super human who could have done all that on his own.

      Use your eyes and look at the basic facts. There’s more to this scene than we have been able to see so far.

      • ora600

        In Italy “Anonymous” corporations are illegal. The participation to a corporation as partner (owner) of as Board member must be recorded.
        All corporation must be registered (no matter if they are public or privately held), and the register must annotate all the variations in term of asset and board members.
        You can inquiry the registry asking a “Visura Camerale” to the institution that manage the registry (Camera di Commercio). You pay the fee and you have all the information.

        • Ged

          That is awesome, and extremely useful; thank you for telling me. This means we could have someone who knows Italian and willing to spend the fee do that on the EON srl company. That would give us some answers, at least enough to know the board and maybe find their connections.

          I would if I could. Do you have any more information on the process?

          • ora600

            I suppose this is the comoany you are looking for:
            EON S.R.L.

            Sede legale: SAN GIOVANNI IN PERSICETO (BO)
            Provincia: FERRARA
            BONDENO (ITALIA)
            VIA CARLO RAGAZZI – 28 – 44012 (FE)
            Tipo sede: IMPIANTO
            Attivita’: DAL 01/01/2005 FABBRICAZIONE DI MOTORI PER LA PRODUZIONE DI ENERGIA ELETTRICA DA FONTI RINNOVABILI.

          • ora600

            Just connect to this web:
            http://www.registroimprese.it/dama/comc/navcom?cl=EN

            Fill the form.
            name= eon srl
            where: Bologna (provincia).

            then select “ask for company report or historical…(unregistered users)
            select “Fascicolo storico” 11.00€.

            This is the most detailed report.
            Fill the rest of the form with your data …
            and good luck!.

  • georgehants

    Would anybody like to give a thought to P&F who despite being totally vindicated are still waiting for an official apology for their horrific treatment from the closed minded, skeptical and incompetent scientific establishment.

    • Steve Robb

      It will be a long, long time coming from the abusers.

  • Defkalion has just accepted the $1m bet from Dick Smith that Rossi turned down! (link below, from company website)

    Dick Smith, please hold them to their word, put the money is escrow and do the testing. Change the world or end the speculation once and for all!

    Defkalion, will the Feb 24 date you mention work for you to host 2 additional testers from Mr. Smith?

    cheers,
    Tyler

    http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1113&sid=e291bffe5e93f4b5e3be613523afa6a4&start=10

    • Sanjeev

      Not exactly correct. They *will* accept it, if he offers them.

      Whether he will offer 1M to DGT, is not confirmed. But it will be interesting in both cases.

      If he refuses to test DGT’s stuff than probably DGT has the goods. Interesting times.

      Bigger news is that they are starting tests from 24th Feb, a nice day to note.

    • Steve Robb

      Dick Smith has not made an offer to Defkalion. But Defkalion will accept if an offer is made.

      • Omega Z

        Dick Smith already has an out.

        In his response on the Rossi controversy, He Stated that he would NOT put the million dollars into an Escrow account.

        DGT has stated that they would accept such an offer if Dick Smith were to make it & placed the Million dollars into Escrow.

        It’s a Non Starter from the git go!

  • Sanjeev

    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=580&cpage=3#comment-185662

    It seems that Rossi’s army of lawyers will take action against Krivit for publishing a forged invoice.
    Forging a document (especially something involving money) is a big crime, I don’t know how Krivit got into all this.
    The good thing is that if this goes to court, it will be a verification of the statement that he has lawyers in his co.

    • Jake

      Rossi (as usual) says nothing concrete about the “unvalidity” of the invoice.

      Reading carefully between the lines, my guess is: it’s an originally valid, but expired contract.

    • Jack

      And with this response Rossi also confirms that he is collecting money from people by selling licenses without providing an actual product. Some people might call this a scam.

    • Steve Robb

      From Rossi: “Since some clown ( probably a “millionaire” clown, who has teamed up with a puppet snake) has put on the net an unvalid invoice from Leonardo Corporation, while our attorneys are working on the issue, I deem opportune to clarify the policy of Leonardo Corporation regarding the commercial licenses. We give exclusive commercial licenses for limited territories.”

      http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=580&cpage=3#comments

      It seems he is in fact selling distribution rights. I only hope that the people/corporations purchasing these rights have performed due diligence and have a cadre of lawyers backing them up. Not sure if what Rossi is doing is legal but I hope to see a product soon. I would imagine that if he has access to all those rights sales he is rolling in money.

  • Pingback: Rossi: Leonardo Corp. Now Owned By a Trust of Investors | ColdFusionBlog.net()

  • Tim Fuller

    If only we could harnass the power of all the Rossi Hopium smokers.
    Enjoy.

  • Joe Heeney

    If anyone truly believes that those who put up their millions do it frivolously and without regard, I suggest you consider this.

    Rossi’s continued presence among the living is the strongest evidence I see for the truth of his claims.

    At any rate it is not for any skeptics false altruism to defend the investments of others.

    The second strongest evidence is the concerted effort to discredit him while others are promoted as having more credible claims, patent applications, grant applications anon.

    It is not science to bash out of existence anything which confronts your dogmatic belief system, that I posit; is the role of religion.

    • Skeptic

      “Rossi’s continued presence (..) is the strongest evidence I see for the truth of his claims.”

      I concur.
      Unfortunately, it is also the only evidence for his claims.
      I don’t have a problem with Rossi’s claims because they conflict with my ‘dogmatic belief system’.
      I have a problem because his extraordinary claims require proof.

      And there is no proof other than Rossi’s continued presence. No Tangible Proof.

      Rossi is saying all the right words, but he is showing no e-cat. He bought himself a lot of time to go on without having to show one.

      Right now he’s talking about who is CEO of some organisation – while we’re still waiting for an e-cat. Just one. Not 1.000.000. Just one.
      Remember this: No Tangible Evidence.