New Poll: How long have you been following LENR/Cold Fusion?

I’m interested in finding out a little more about how long people have been LENR/Cold Fusion news and developments — I’m wondering if the majority of interested people have been paying attention to the story for a long time now, or if there is a lot of recent interest springing up.

It seems that many people who comment here regularly have had a long-standing interest in the topic, but I know that only a small minority of visitors to this site are frequent commenters, so they are probably not a very representative sample of people who are paying attention. The poll is in the right panel — it only takes a click to participate!

Comments below about how long you have been following the story, and how you became interested will be very welcome and interesting!

  • Kim

    21 years

    Kim

  • daniel maris

    Vaguely 21 years, intensely 18 months.

    • JerryD

      about 2 years, before Frank started this excellent forum.

    • Robert Mockan

      Too long.

      • dragonX

        Too long indeed. I have my own question:
        How long do I still need to follow LENR before something definitive is going to happen?

        • K

          21 years
          intensely 18 months after appearance in The Oil Drum
          near addicted since I’ve an idea about the underlying effect, which for me explains every single failure, weakness or revolution that has been disclosed uptil now.

          • EddovdH

            I followed ColdFusion/LENR on and off for the last ten years, but since discovering e-catworld one year ago I check this wonderful website every day.
            A few weeks ago I wrote to NRC/Handelsblad, the main Dutch “quality” newspaper about LENR, giving them the url of the Tyler van Houwelingen slideshow, and suggesting that they should look at this and then write an article about the latest LENR developments. So far no answer or reaction.

          • Peter_Roe

            Quite a few of us have tried something similar. Silence is the unvarying result.

          • steven

            People are getting brainwashed and a thing like LENR seems so unlikely that people don’t believe in it. We need some prove in the near future from Rossi, Brillion, Plasmaerg, Defkalion, the Papp engine brothers, Blacklight power, etc….
            I am a believer but we need some big hard evidence !
            If this happens newspapers will follow.

          • GreenWin

            Steve, newspapers report the unusual, unconventional, snarky and sensational. The MSM is under orders to neglect LENR and all physics not on the approved list. Any editor publishing an unapproved story in this area will be figuratively executed.

          • Stephen Taylor

            I think they are just scared to be wrong as I am.

          • EddovdH

            Even AFTER reading all the information on the Tyler van Houwelingen slide-show, and AFTER following all the links on that site to all the other sites with information on the internet??

          • Stephen Taylor

            Cold fusion being a proven anomalous heat effect is not news worthy by itself. Most replications are less than twice the amount of energy out as energy in and this is not commercially dramatic.
            For the story to be newsworthy in light of the debacle of 1989 the effect has to be world changing as it was stated to be in 1989 (by the mainstream media). This is not certain yet to their scaredy-cat standards.

        • Been following the events off and on from the start but more off than on. My interest was reignited when I heard of the E-Cat in August 2011.

          • NJT

            As a working chemist I became very interested when Pons & Fleishman announced in 89. I also had experimented with biological transmutations of various heavy elements during an earlier time so I believed they were on to something very interesting…

          • T Lee Buyea – Fla. News Service Miam

            Two years

  • Thomas

    Hi,

    I have been following your blog for about 1,5 yrs 🙂 One could say “early adopter” 😀

    • Cyle

      For about 2 years now… Thanks for the great website, I find I am checking it daily now…

      • raymond

        Too long, At first i thought this was the greatest breakthrough in energy technology. But as the Unverified(3rd party confirmation)tests and the endless “were almost there” statements from Rossi dragged on, I can say that i’m losing hope he has any earthshaking technology avialible at all.

        • zero

          Around 2 years now. I was researching alchemy and the possible truths that might be forgotten with it when I stumbled onto a blog criticizing all of cold fusion, and Rossi in particular and comparing them to alchemists. It struck me as odd and I started digging. Now I have a front row seat to the world’s best circus that keeps getting bigger everyday. Puppets, snakes, and clowns! Oh My!

        • Marc Stone

          This is why im glad I only picked up on this in the last 6 months

          There is other stuff I have been watching…to exhaustion…for years.

      • On a daily basis ever since you put up this great site Frank.

        Previously , i had watched the BBC documentary on Pons & Flieshman and was
        aware of Frank Bokris work.

    • G_Zingh

      Actually since January 2011 and loving every minute of it. Thanks for this website.

      • joe j

        About the same time for me, this latest CF flareup has been a great source of entertainment as well as knowledge as it exposes the mindset of the stereotypical cold fusion devotee in full force.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    I did read about cold fusion from time to time in past years, but I began following this field intensely only since January 2011. So between 1 and 2 years.

  • Andrei

    Around 2 years. I’m a software engineer, not a physicist. I’ve been following because LENR is a big step to decentralized energy and decentralized technologies are big steps to true freedom.

  • paul bennett

    21 years

    • Jeff

      Intermittently since 1989. Like others, more lately.

  • dennis lynn

    Since 1989.

  • I have been following ECat since Januray 2011.

    Earier, have followed the rise and fall of P&F.

  • Following ECat since January 2011.
    Earlier, I have followed the rise & fall of P&F.
    I am an engineer in the power industry.

  • Stephen Taylor

    I was following the small hot fusion projects. The U.S. Navy’s somewhat secretive Polywell and LPP’s Focus Fusion mainly. So, doing google searches for “fusion power” I picked up on Rossi about January 2011.

    At first I was skeptical, then I studied the development from 1989 and saw it made sense. Piantelli and Focardi and Levi could not be fraudulent so I had to watch.

    • Marc Stone

      I’ve been watching for a little less that 6 months.

      I’m an on again/off again reader and poster over on “Next Big Future”. For about 2-3 years I had been reading stuff about 4th gen. nuclear reactors and various smaller fusion projects. I also have a strong BS meter. So I just glance over titles I think are BS. Then…one day…less than 6 months ago…NBF posted an article about Brillouin. I read the article…googled a few more….started coming across Rossi and Defkalon. Then I started working through the physics…looking at deomonstrations and big name support. Then…my future tech potential meter zoomed past level 4 “a Darth vader…Impressive, most impressive” damn near cracking the gage at a level 5 “get the f–k out!”…the rest is history.

      I only have 5 technologies on my radar that have hit level 5.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Which 5 Marc, if you don’t mind sharing? Do you think Polywell or Focus Fusion will happen within 3 to 5 years?
        Thanks,
        Steve

        • Marc Stone

          sure ill share…

          Polywell and Focus Fusion are among a handful of smaller fusion projects that I watch…but I take the long view on them…dont watch them intently as it would pretty much drive me insane. One has an outside chance of hitting? Thats the best I can do. They hover around level 3-4.

          My level 5’s are as follows

          1. ITER hot fusion…might get knocked down to 4 if LENR hits.
          2. LENR
          3. Memristor…analog neural nets
          4. Kanzius Machine…cure for cancer
          5. DRACO…cure for common cold and many other viruses.

          for fun my level 4’s are

          1. Synthetic Photosynthesis by Daniel Nocera
          2. LHC higgs boson
          3. NIF National ignition facility
          4. LIGO gravity detecton
          5. Blue Brain Project…hopefully soon to become HBP

          oh and level 3

          1. 4th gen nuclear
          2. exa-scale super computer

  • Since 1993, fallen on Internet (not yet Web) resources…analyzed a pile of thousands of abstract. get convinced it was a domain of research and not fraud.
    2005 heard of Spawar… no time to bother…
    autumn 2011 heard of e-cat, defkalion, discuss with DGT, make my conviction it is THE time.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Started thinking about LENR in March of 1989.

      • frank

        About the time A.R. did the test in Oct. And what I don’t understand is what does the mainstreem media know? and why aren’t they covering it? If this is real then this is the biggest story sense electricity. you are doing a good job on your end ,I thank you for that. Keep the blogs comming to keep it alive.Hope we have a conclusion soon because I have to go mow the lawn once in awhile.

        • More or less 1 year now… I’m addict! Someone can help?

  • Andrew Macleod

    I have been following since January 2011. I read a popsci article about Rossi and started digging on my own.

    • Omega Z

      Plus 1

      But figured problems of 89 were probably a cover up & problems of replication were a lack of knowledge, Bad Science to ignore it.

  • Elias

    About 4,5 months now.

  • Robb

    I live in Utah (and work for the University of Utah) so I’ve had an interest in it since Pons and Fleischmann’s news conference. Found this website about six months ago and I’ve tracked it several times a week since. Thanks for such a great job in keeping us apprised of what’s going on. I’m greatly encouraged especially these past few weeks. I’ve tried to interest an old friend in it. He is head of the Physics Dept. at a university, but he still seems to be stubbornly convinced it’s theoretically impossible. There are still a lot of closed minds out there and I hope to see them proven wrong in the not too distant future.

    • Omega Z

      Robb

      You should get details on Robert Duncan & the 60 minute interview. Duncan didn’t believe, but is now convinced of the anomalous heat effect & is researching it at the University of Missouri. He’s open minded & a good candidate for the job. He’s of the opinion now that not to investigate AHE it is bad science.

      You could then present your friend the facts. Best hurry tho. By years end everyone May be aware.

      • Robb

        Thanks for the suggestion. Maybe I’ll give that a try. I did send him a link to a very impressive article from the NASA website but he hasn’t replied.

        I think most physicists are going to have to be hit over the head with a sledgehammer before they’ll poke their heads up out of the ground and say, “Huh? There’s something new going on? When did that happen?!!”

  • vbasic

    It was definitely because of Andrea Rossi, in the summer of 2011. I was googling ‘alternative energy’ last summer and a small article discussed the possibilities that cold fusion was being revived and soon to be commercialized. Since then almost every day I had to be kept informed. i now view e-catworld daily and think of it as a primary source for LENR info.
    For the poll, I had to disconnect my initial interest back in 89-91 since I stopped following after the physics establishment backlash.

    • I distantly remember a carefree time when I wasn’t following this story. I think I may have been a young man then.

      • MPB

        Since January 20, 2011.

  • Kimball

    Two months for me. I found out about it by accident. This is all fascinating and utterly awsome!

    • WaltC

      Since 1989 with P&F.

      From the beginning I figured the problem was repeatability first and magnitude (of anomalous heat) second. Too many scientists were focused on the times that it couldn’t be reproduced and not enough were thinking about the fact that *sometimes* it did work.

      It has taken a lot longer than I ever would have guessed to make headway on those issues & I really, truly hope that we are getting close.

      • Lu

        Where’s the “too long” option? I think I discovered the E-Cat in July 2011. It’s been interesting and informative but I still consider myself a skeptic. I’m giving it till no later than end of this year after which I will wait till I see it on the evening news.

        • Andrew Macleod

          I wouldn’t say I’m a sceptic, but I still entertain all possibilities. If by Christmas there is no Irrfutable proof I will also wait to read about it in the major media.

          • Barry

            I had a dream of a cold fusion device last Feb. Two days later I read about the resurgence of CF. I was disappointed by the disbelievers and false voices over twenty years ago and had not given it much thought till 2012. I know this sounds strange, but I believe because of my dream.

            Cold Fusion is surfacing in the collective unconscious.
            Peace, Barry

          • John

            I am following LENR, EOS energy Zinc-Air Battery, Plasmerg Noble Gas Engine for past one year. Hope that E-Cat and Plasmerg will change the energy scenario within two years time.

          • Niemand

            As many folks, who are monitoring Steorn horrible boring Jury stunts & others theatres for years, and now monitoring LENR area, I too from Jan 2011.
            I am thinking that Rossi stuff is real and after 144th delay even we will something to see from Dublin.

          • Peter_Roe

            You say that now, but many of us have tried several times to break this habit during dead times – and failed. Admit it – you need help.

          • Andrew Macleod

            I’m still in stage one… Denial…

        • georgehants

          The attached paper following ICCF17 format and standards in length
          Attachment:
          File comment: Paper presented in ICCF17
          2012-08-13 ICCF-17__Paper_DGTG.docx [3.84 MiB]
          Downloaded 12 times
          was presented in ICCF-17 by Defklion Green Technologies Hyperion product manager Menelaos Koulouris, supported by our R&D team through skype. 11 questions raised from the ICCF audience were answered.
          You can address your questions or remarks on this presented paper through info@defkalion-energy.com (Ref: R&D_ICCF17_paper) or through this forum from August 20th, 2012.
          Thank you for your attention
          Defkalion Green Technologies
          http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1290

  • Don Witcher

    Thought Pons and Fleishmann were on to something in 1989. Thought the main stream Scientific establishment had a hidden agenda when they got hysterical and gave it the treatment they did. Got confirmation of that through the early nineties but the successful experiments didn’t seem to be going anywhere so didn’t pay much attention. Discovered info about Rossi in March 2011. Thought it was a fraud but started doing some real research and thinking. Gradually changed my mind and was finally convinced by the October tests in 2011. I now have no doubt that LENR and the e-cats are real. Its just a matter of time until LENR becomes a significant energy source. Now I find I have a ringside seat at the best show on earth.

  • Frankye

    6monts

  • Mark

    Watching LENR has also become a religion,
    and Rossi – the Messiah. Let him and other
    pioneers/apostles support our faith in the power
    of science and Western civilization.
    It would be a lot of broken hearts if the LENR
    project fails… we desperate to see 5KW industrial
    heater.

    • David Albert

      2 yrs. Things are looking up.

    • Coming back from Las Vewgas in 1989, I told a friend that I had been having recurring auditory hallucinations in which I heard the words “Breakthrough!” and “Disaster!” and I predicted to him rhat there would soon be an enormous scientific advance and a huge disaster of some kind, and there was – the announcement of cold fusion followed the next day by the wreck of the Exxon Valdez. I began buying every newspaper and magazine I could find that contained the words “cold fusion” and by the next year had a huge shipping crate full of them. I was terribly disappointed when it did not bear fruit as I’d hoped and seen. I never lost interest for a minute, and when the advent of hydrogen on demand began with a story on Fox Tampa about inventor Denny Klein I started the hhogames Web site and put on the first HHO Games & Exposition at the Manatee County Fairgrounds. We drew about 3,000 people! The revival of cold fusion a few years later seemed almost a natural outgrowth of the many things that were happening with hydrogen. First came the work by Randell Mills on hydrino reactors, and then Rossi (at least that was the order in which I discovered them). Now my 19,000-word novella “POWER: A Story of Cold Fusion” and my articles for CNN iReport (my iReport on Rossi’s November announcement got 28,000 readers) and The American Reporter have occupied much of my time – when I’m not reading e-catworld and scouring the Internet for more and more and more! Viva cold fusion!

      • Omega Z

        Joe Shea

        Stumbled on Mills around 08. I had concluded he had something, But watching that show was worse then watching grass grow. So checked back every several months. We know now he has multiple 3rd party verification, but it’s still going to be sometime (Several Years)to market.

        We all get impatient at times, but watching Rossi is like being on a bullet train compared to Black Light.

      • Rheulan Grænkleda

        I’ve been following the ecat saga since january 2011. While doing a search about Yoshiaki Arata, I have stumbled across the ecat story. Since Arata’s statements from 2007, I started paying real attention to LENR. I remember, as a brat, of my father talking about Pons and Fleischmann and how cold fusion would change the world.

        • JOHN DOUGLAS

          http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-793467

          If you google NTIS AD671667 you will get

          Development of an Ammonia-Burning Gas Turbine Engine. – NTIS
          https://0-www.ntis.gov.iii-server.ualr.edu/…/product.aspx?…AD6716…
          d liquid, and in the vapor state. Vaporized ammonia injection gave the most …

          On page 48 it states that the gas turbine went overunity .The figure was 102% the combustion

          efficiency was <94%=8% anomalous energy resulting in exhaust temperature being raised by 80degrees F

          The engine in question was fitted with a catalytic converter and was tested in 1965.

          The report is dated 03 APR 1968

          The engineer in charge said "I reckon it's something to do with nascent hydrogen but if I go down that track I'll be crucified". (Think Pons and Fleishman)

          WE HAVE WASTED NEARLY 50 YEARS.

          • GreenWin

            It’s a shame John. But we’ve gotto do a thorough and searching inventory to clean up the corruption. The result will be a far more equitable world and a vast expansion of technical knowledge. Who knows, we might achieve Type 1 planetary status.

          • Peter_Roe

            I suspect we’ll bypass that – far too much like hard work. We’ll probably just be interstellar vikings instead, axe in hand, knarrs ready to take the loot home or to one of our colonies.

          • GreenWin

            Honest, LOL Peter!

    • Francesco CH

      “Rossi – the Messiah”

      Hallelujah!!!

      • Omega Z

        Francesco CH

        Are things going to be the same at cobraf without Cures. It would be a serious loss without him. It will have some effects here @e-catworld, just hasn’t sunk in yet.

      • ZviBenYosef

        I remember the original Pons and Fleischmann historic press conference. At that time I was convinced we would soon be enjoying the fruits of their research. I never once doubted their honesty, or the huge implications of their momentous discovery. When the MIT scientists gave it the thumbs down, I smelled a rat, and I did not believe them. I thought they were falsifying their results. Over the intervening period I never gave up the hope that this technology would finally emerge to save mankind.
        I first heard about Rossi last Summer, and have been enthusiastically following his progress. Whether or not Rossi is exaggerating his accomplishments is beside the point. Several other researchers have conclusively proved the anomalous heat effect is real. Rossi would have to be completely deranged to continue a hoax for this long. I am looking forward to seeing this technology put to practical use in the very near future, perhaps 6-12 months. Then we will really see the sparks fly. What a wonderful future lies in store for the human race and our beautiful planet

        • gary

          You are right about Rossi… He would have to be totally wacko to be continually updating us on what is going on in the LENR field and his developments. Where would he be able to live afterwards if he was scamming us?

          • Robert Mockan

            I know this is the E-Cat forum, but the opportunity to spread the word about the Papp engine to all the visitors is too great to pass up. If you do not have this link you will not be able to see this video. I suggest you download it to your computer after viewing it. It may be pulled very soon. It does appear the Papp engine is real, and there is NO LENR thermal reactor that can compete with it. Take a look at the Inteligentry Company laboratory in this You Tube video. These people are not playing games.
            Rossi is running fast into a technology hurricane that may doom E-Cat.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8V7yfycBNg&feature=youtu.be

            It may be based on the same fundamental technology, but the way it is applied is very different from anything else being developed.

          • AstralProjectee

            I totally agree with you Robert. I realize that Inteligentry has not done any tests like Rossi, but all the other things and details are adding up a lot. And I personally have a strong feeling from what I have read that they will storm the world into a new area when they will debut at one of the world biggest energy conferences this December 11, 2012 at the PowerGen conference in Orlando. The thing is, is that not only John Rohner and his company will be at the conference but his manufactures will be there too. Supporting John and his engines. One of the manufactures is working on their version of the engine too. And they may have that ready at the conference.

            I think he is going to come on the scene and just shock people out of there slumber about what has been going on.

            The other things is that Rossi’s commercialization plan is not as good and robust as Inteligentries plan. They are licensing plasmerg noble gas engines out to any company that wants one. They already sold master licences to a lot of countries and a lot more are very interested. While Rossi only has 2-3 plants in the works. So even if Rossi might be able to compete he would have to have a game plan changer in a big way.

            In a personal email with John Rohner he told me that PlasmERG out puts .02 Cents per KWH. At that cost I doubt a 1200 Celsius ecat can compete at all. None of Inteligentries investors, which have a plasmerg engine to work with, have reported that John Rohner is a fraud. On top of that you can now buy a proof of concept kit to prove or debunk the plasmic transition process works before they even gone public. So if one wanted to discredit Inteligentry this would be giving them the tools to do so. So if they wanted to make Inteligentry look like a fraud all they have to do is buy a kit here http://www.plasmerg.com/kits.html then put it together and debunk it. But why would John Rohner give someone that opportunity to do something like that, to ruin his reputation 4 months before going public.

            I updated my recent post about PlasmERG in the forums here. So check it out to find out more and post something. Research it and tell me what you think.

            Peace.

          • From March 24, 1989 when I got the info re
            Fleischmann-Pons. As told, I am the male
            Solvejg of Cold Fusion- now LENR and LENR+
            Peter

          • NoPowerAtAll

            Peter, don’t misunderstand me, I’ve a great respect for your person, but with their presentation DGT is trying to prove that LENR is real instead of supply evidences that _themselves_ are real. It’s not tolerable anymore that every time they continue to present themselves like the first player in the market, talking about commercialization, licenses all over the world, products with 7kW power output and, in the facts, only pull the wool over our eyes.

            Here we are not talking about a new diet Coke, or a new car model, we are talking about something which anyone has never built before and it’s even impossible to build for the known physics. They _must_ prove the Hyperion is able to generate 7kW of thermal power output with 318W of electrical power input, before talking of theories.
            There are hundreds of theories, but no one is able to build a reactor with more than 100W independently verified, and for what shown until now (ICCF-17 included) it sounds like DGT makes no difference at all.

            Peter, please, don’t endorse them anymore until they show facts. They don’t deserve your attention. We all have the ears full of their chatters.

          • barty

            ICCF-17 presentation of Defkalion:

            http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1290

            Nothing new, the same as at NIWeek 🙁

          • Hank Mills

            The following is my response to Peter Gluck (focused on Defkalion’s ICCF-17 presentation) that I posted on his blog. I wanted to post it somewhere in one piece, because I had to break it up into two parts to post it in the comment section on his blog.

            Dear Peter,

            I do not plan to “assassinate” this paper. To be blunt, I just read the paper and have discovered, as I expected, it is not even worth writing an article about for PESN. This is not to say there are not interesting aspects of this paper. The discussion about atomic hydrogen (in a dipole state) and how they have processed the nickel powder to creature a more “open” structure is interesting. Also, the XRF analysis seems to show clear evidence of transmutation products.

            However, the paper is tremendously lacking when it comes to providing even a single test report that shows a large amount of excess energy produced at a high COP. In fact, they do not provide anything that comes close to an actual test report. There is a chart of figures that they claim are derived from analysis of repeated test runs, but the chart is not anything close to what needs to be provided to back up their claims.

            The fact is Defkalion has made very big claims about high temperatures, high levels of output, and high COP figures. But so far, unless they present such evidence at this conference, they have provided little evidence of such.

            For example, they do provide a few photos and screen shots in the appendix of the report. These images seem to show data from testing being performed. However, the images are very confusing and are not explained well. For example, lets consider figure #7 titled, “Monitoring the Performance of Hyperion lab prototypes.”

            In this image there is a text bubble labeled, “Total heat energy produced” that points to a figure of 166.35 (Wh). Another text bubble is labeled “Total electric energy consumed” that points to a figure of 145.67 (Wh). If these are the two figures that should be used to determine the input to output ratio, the COP produced is barely over 1.

            I am NOT saying that I am properly interpreting figure #7. However, due to this paper not providing an actual test report (with details and explanations)I am left to conclude that this test resulted in a very low COP — far lower than they have been claiming for a year or more.

            In addition, the data in figure #5 is almost impossible to read. Again, due a lack of details and specifics it is very difficult to interpret the data in these images.

            Unlike Defkalion, Andrea Rossi has provided solid evidence to back up his claims. In 2011 he allowed for at least a dozen tests of the E-Cat. The results of these tests were allowed to be shared with the world. What they contained were actual details, explanations, and specific information that made it clear he was producing very large amounts of power. In fact, the data made it clear that in some instances, his COP was near infinite due to the ability to run the E-Cat in a self sustaining mode of operation.

            If Defkalion wishes to convince people that they have a technology that comes anything close to what Rossi has to offer, they need to publish the test reports of those that came to their labs and did experiments. If nothing else, they should allow someone who performed a test to write up a couple pages summarizing their experiment — with details such as temperatures, flow rate, input, output, and very importantly, a final COP figure.

            Do to the fact that so far — maybe this will change as the conference in Korea progresses — Defkalion seems unwilling to provide convincing test data that would allow me to develop the “positive intellectual action toward Defkalion” you speak about.

            By the way, perfect experiments are not required to prove the E-Cat works. The tests conducted in 2011, although perhaps not as extremely rigorous as some academics would like, were more than good enough to prove the production of huge amounts of excess heat. I think it is important to remember that Rossi is primarily three things: an inventor, an engineer, and an industrialist. He cares most about making progress towards commercialization. I think from his point of view, not every test needs to be painstakingly perfect to measure every milliwatt of excess heat if KILOWATTS are being produced.

            In 2011 many, many people were hounding him to do various types of experiments — including myself! He probably had a thousand people make proposals. He obviously could not grant them all. What is important is that the tests he performed were more than satisfactory to show his claims about the E-Cat were accurate.

            One very important point that should be made is that an overall theory of LENR does not specifically need to exist for products to be commercialized. Don’t get me wrong! I love reading about theories. Defkalion’s theory, about the active nuclear environment and more, is very interesting. But what matters most is getting product on the market. As long as a product can be proven to work as claimed in a safe manner, I don’t think it really matters much if every detail of the theory is understood. The world needs a revolutionary new source of energy, and cold fusion can provide it.

            I do not claim that Rossi is a perfect person or has been a perfect researcher. However, he has made more progress towards a powerful and robust product than anyone in the field. I think this is a big factor for why many people, especially those associated with his competitors, are angry at him. Their technologies pale in comparison to his, and they recognize that fact.

            When it comes to Defkalion’s relationship with Rossi, I do not think it is repairable. The simple fact is that according to what the president of Defkalion said to NyTeknic, they performed an analysis of an E-Cat without Rossi’s permission, and learned confidential information about how it functioned. If this took place, it is clearly something that could prevent Leonardo Corporation and Defkalion from cooperating in the future.

            Also, my understanding from Stremmenos, one of Defkalion’s former directors, has stated is that Defkalion’s version of the “split up” that took place is not accurate. Stremmenos has stated that Rossi patiently waited for months for Defkalion to make their *first* contractually obligated payment. However, it never happened. This is far different than Defkalion’s version of events. I trust Stremmenos is telling the truth, because without his actions Defkalion would have never been formed. In fact, it would not exist at all.

            Finally, when it comes to solving the problems of industrialization, it seems clear to me that Rossi is the furthest ahead. The new “hot cat” is a very, very simple design that seems to have many advantages. For example, self sustaining ability (which Defkalion does not utilize), ease of manufacture (a tube within a tube basically), high temperature (over 1,000C), a lack of parts prone to failure (spark plugs), and other advantages as well.

            I sincerely appreciate the report you shared with me. I find it interesting in several ways. Again, their nuclear active environment theory is fascinating. However, when it comes to providing evidence of a robust and powerful technology, it seems to be seriously lacking.

            Hank Mills

          • About the curve in the paper and COP, you cannot use them to compute COP, since it is only temperature curves of various thermocouples, inside and outside (see the name). At worst you can observe heat variation, and guess power using the shape of the reactor…

            as I said on Peter’s blog, like Rossi claims, it is a DGT said. with much more data. the demo of Rossi could have been more conclusive, but controversial organization, and hyperskepticism prevent them to be conclusive.

            If you wan’t real data, wait for independent data, which mean , not far before they are produced or available to sales.

            on the opposite, despite the lack of data, DGT have a better human credibility (well known rich business investors, not lone inventor).

            Anyway don’t expect much real data until the commercial phase is finished. It is possible, and I hope that Rossi will give independent results, but who knows, and if it does not happens it will mean nothing, except a strategy different from what we expect.

            The technical description of DGT is however an indirect proff, that added to the busines profile of the board of director, add to the reality of the project.
            faking the results, with so much data, so much data that you can simply not give to avoid critics, is so unneeded complexity, that I cannot believe in that scam theory, especially with a board of director that could have a much more easy scam project, like selling renewable energy, or financial derivatives, or asking for subsidies. Maybe even you can claim a machine using hot fusion and cavitation, which are mainstream science.

            Occam razor just say you that they are a business unit, with some scientific and technological results, some executed tests, that they will communicate when their business interest dictate, which depend on their good will, the fearful will of their clients, partners, and the bad will of the regulators.

            Rossi 1200C are much more doubtful, even if I have behavioral reason to be quite confident in his claims, now, at last.

          • Robert Mockan

            Correction: this video is of the Rohner Group laboratory, with president Robert Rohner, a competitor to Inteligentry and PlasmERG, run by John Rohner. The 3 Rohner brothers have been involved with the Papp engine. Their squabbling among themselves for many years about who owns the intellectual property has delayed the development of this technology, directly causing the death of literally millions of people that might have benefited from the source of energy to raise themselves out of poverty and starvation. It is the same lack of progress we find in LENR technology. This does not happen by accident. Someday the people who are really responsible for delays developing advanced energy technology WILL be held accountable.

          • Robert Mockan

            Another video you need to watch. This is the real thing, people.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l5Pey3TCao&feature=related
            There is no possible way LENR thermal reactors can compete with Papp technology. It appears to be a new kind of nuclear mediated force, is not thermodynamic, does not obey the Boyle gas laws, and is some kind of potential energy intrinsic to the nuclei of atoms that can be released under certain conditions. This force is not heat generated, and does not seem to be fission or fusion. I am disgusted with the conventional scientific community for not researching this. And they still ignore it. Thank you Rohner brothers for at least continuing to work on it (even with all your infighting about intellectual property rights!).

            I have to agree with other supporters of this technology. THIS FORCE, SOMEHOW RELEASED USING ACTIVATED NOBLE GASES, IS THE GREATEST DISCOVERY IN HISTORY!

          • Peter_Roe

            Robert – the first video has already been taken down from your linked page (I am copying the second, which is still up). What is the title of the missing video please, or do you have another link?

          • Robert Mockan

            That was fast!The up loader had placed it in a private link that only people with the link address could access. And he had copied it from the original video that was taken down 2 HOURS after it was first posted to You Tube. Evidently there were simply too many revealing details in it, and the Rohner Group had second thoughts about showing it. The title of the second re-posting was “Joe Papp Motor August 3 2012 re-posted after it showed too much and was removed”. It was the inside of their laboratory and clearly the Rohner Group means business.
            It was a BIG lab, and had equipment one would expect in an engine lab. Test equipment, many test apparatus, many engines both assembled and apart with all internal features described with charts. All the activation assemblies were shown, the magnetic coils, the gas loading connectors… all of it! I learned enough watching the video to build the engine. Not how the noble gas works, because no body seems to know that, but to build it.

            OK, you missed that. Here is another video that is helpful to understand part of the construction. It has been up for a few days so maybe it will stay up. But much of it is is about a theory the interviewer has about how it works. To me the “theory” sounded like crap, but I’m beginning to think the minds of these people are plugged into a different dimension or something, so you decide.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM&feature=related

          • Peter_Roe

            On the basis of these and other videos I’ve seen, and your comments, I have to say that many of my reservations about the Papp engine are being dispelled. As is the case for LENR, the theories of the inventors, who are often not scientists, are less important than what they can get their toys to do. I will be watching this story alongside LENR from now on.

          • Hey.
            I know this is weird.
            But it is 2012 and 20/12 is the end of the mayan calendar.

            No one knows exactly what will happen on Dec. 21, 2012 .

            Consensus is that the world will have some major changes…

            Could Rossi and his E-Cat be the subject of the prophecy the Mayan’s were talking about?

            A new Golden age from the new world cheap energy supply?

            Was there any stone carvings or temples dedicated to cats??

            Could be a good story for someone –

            That would surely get some followers on board to watch our race for LNER

            (Might be a few crazy ones ha – Groupies are always for spreading the word but)

          • ChemE

            A singularity(collapsed matter), what I call my gremlin, can pass right through other matter, as in a “lightning ball” passing through a window.  As a singularity comes into contact with other matter/energy it cools off and expands and is happy momentarily.  If it cannot grab enough matter/energy to continue expanding/cooling, it gets angry, collapses, gives off energy as it evaporates and then POP and it is gone.  The gremlin is not a picky eater, it will rip/consume whatever matter you feed it and belch quantum goo.

            The largest gremlins(black holes) in the universe are in the coldest places.  Do not feed your baby gremlins too much or they will get very large quickly and swallow you.  They are like Otto in that pool of water.  Care for your baby gremlins very carefully and do not feed them too much or they will grow up suddenly.

            That Papp engine is scary powerful if you step on the accelerator.

          • Stephen Taylor

            ChemE,
            You do have my attention. If the Papp works I will get back to work on those papers I promised to read. (Busy, busy, busy…) It is very interesting about the clusters in noble gasses (on Vort today) and how they catalyze each others development and the electrostatic forces. Very interesting reading these days.
            Steve

          • daniel maris

            Conrad –

            I know this is weird – but what calendar are you using. People use different calendars around the world…Why would the Mayans choose a date in a calendar that is significant to us but not to them? It makes no sense.

          • AstralProjectee

            The Mayan calendar and the Hindu calendar are similar in that they use astrology.

            Astrology is the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs.

            Both calendars say we will be entering a new age very soon. They are not very far off form each other.

            I certainly like watching all this being put together and connecting so beautify, not that I believe in astrology but certainly entertaining to watch unfold.

          • Andre Blum

            I agree with you that no one knows what will happen exactly on Dec. 21. No one knows what will happen exactly on Dec. 20, too. And Dec. 19. And 18.

            I also agree that the concensus is that the world will have some major changes. And minor ones.

            There is also very large consensus that this has nothing to do with the mayas or their calendar.

          • GreenWin

            Same as happened on January 1, 2000. Y2K!

          • Andrew Macleod

            I know what will happen on dec 21st 2012….. The Mayans will have to do what I do every year….. Buy a new calander.

          • Peter_Roe

            Rats – I was going to say that.

          • Robert Mockan

            Do you mean “Cats- I was going to say that”?

          • Methusela

            I’ll run around in a panic.

            December 21st and still no Christmas presents bought.

          • Andrew Macleod

            Lol…. I don’t panic anymore….seasoned last minute shopper.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Conrad, on your 11:33 post:
            Love it. Hollywood is missing out.

          • Dup!

            Looks like Rossi’s big test and main stream media advent might be delayed until 21st December 2012.

            The stars told me

          • Peter_Roe

            Correction – not the inventor’s theory in this case. I rather like the ‘keyring atom’ model but I’m not sure about the extensions from it. Might buy the book.

          • Andrew Macleod

            Great video! It’s funny how scientists that figure out how things work are applauded even if it has no practical application, yet “regular” people who get things to do work in the real world are often labeled as crackpots because its not fully understood how it happens. Frankly we need more “crackpots” in the world.

          • Camilo

            I’ve been following it since March 23, 1989.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Camilo, are you Camilo V. ?
            Steve

          • Camilo

            Camilo Urbina, from Chile.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Sorry, duplicate.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Nice to meet you, Steve Taylor, Florida.

          • Pachu

            Damnit i just want to see one of this dam things in my car or house.

            There is so much drama…

          • Ged

            Well, ICCF-17 is going on, let’s see what comes of that! Also, Kobe-Technova… STILL waiting on their presentation to be loaded on youtube.

          • Ivan Mohorovicic

            It is on Youtube but it’s very hard to understand:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG5FKjibgAw

            Starts at minute 40:50, unfortunately it’s not complete and audio quality is bad.

          • Ged

            Thanks, Ivan! Hm, that is too bad. I was looking forward to hearing what they had to say.

          • Ged

            After watching it, the slides were still interesting. Fun seeing the comparison between H and D. Not much difference with their palladium mixture system, except H gives a sharper energy out spike, it seems.

          • Barry

            This is NIweek.

          • GreenWin

            Yes, that will be interesting. Also, there should be good quality, audio and video coming from ICCF-17. Can’t imagine putting on this conference without good quality recording.

          • Barry

            Thanks Robert, this video is one of the best! Coming from you gives it a lot of credibility. My head is spinning.
            Believer of the Myan calender or not, by the end of 2012, the world is about to change in a big way.

          • AstralProjectee

            LOL I was thinking the same thing. I am not quick to believe in the Mayan calendar but this is truly interesting to see all this unfold right at the time the new age is suppose to start according to the Mayan calendar.

            So John Rohners PlasmERG engine will enter the market Dec 11, 2012 which is only 10 days away from when the Mayan calendar perdicts a new age we are all suppose to be entering. which is Dec 21, 2012 These dates are extremely close considering it was suppose to have been predicted 2500 to 5000 years ago. I don’t necessarily believe in the Mayan calendar but it’s really interesting to see how close those dates are. There just might be something to it. Well have to wait and see.

          • Andrew Macleod

            The Papp engine would be a great replacment for efficent mechanical energy, ecat for thermal, black light for electrical.. The dawn of a new age…

          • AstralProjectee

            Nice thought, but PlasmERG would out do them all right now even if you have to convert the PlasmERG engines force into heat or electricity. So far there seems to be no comparison. Plasmerg is 700 times cheaper than the average of all other energy sources combined and averaged. And it’s 600 times cheaper than gasoline.

          • GreenWin

            Robert, wouldn’t it be interesting if both LENR and noble gas expansion tapped a similar physics of the atom unexplored? In the past I’ve mentioned papers by McKubre discussing ways to directly tap the energy release in the LENR reaction WITHOUT it thermalizing. This would be similar in some ways to whatever is happening in the Papp phenomenon.

            Once we get a better handle on the way the atom functions under special circumstances – I imagine we’ll see all sorts of useful applications. Personally I am not a fan of mechanical stuff. I far prefer the fewest moving parts in engines/motors which is why I will pursue electric motors for light transport. Big plus for me… they’re QUIET, vibrationless, simple. But it looks like the New Atom Age will offer tastes to suit all palettes. Nice.

          • Robert Mockan

            Some of the last big names still alive and active who study the fringe science fields not directly associated with the LENR field, but who often seem to be researching devices related in some way to it, have suggested the Papp engine process may be based on “space energy” conversion. The problem with conventional science trying to explain the process is that conventional science concepts are only consistent within the physics models used to explain the effects and interaction of sparks, plasma, and magnetic fields. But in the Papp engine something new is happening. It is NOT the sparks that make it go, or the plasma, for that matter. Those help create the “transition” state, but may not be necessary. The “transition” state is activated by the “transition” magnetic coil A-vector, not the B field, when “any” plasma is created within the “transition coil” field (not just that of noble gases), IF the outer electron shell in the non-plasma state is filled. The “expansion” effect these Papp research people talk about is actually a 5th state of matter, not the fourth state (that is the plasma state). It is that 5th state that is releasing potential energy drawn from Dirac space (that is, space energy), according to researchers like Tom Bearden, Ken Shoulders, Dr. Harold Puthoff, and others. THAT state is the key to the Papp process, and when it is fully understood we may see some truly incredible applications of the Papp process, and not just that limited to energy conversion. In many ways it seems related to the field of “torsion” physics, that is also not fully accepted by the conventional science community. There is an old saying that science progress moves death by death, as the older scientists resistant to new ideas die off, and a younger generation takes over. We do not seem to be at the “younger” generation stage yet, but have a few older generation eccentrics, some of them scientists and some not, who just do not know when to quit. If they can get at least some of this advanced technology into peoples faces, even by selling products without fully understanding the science involved, so it can no longer be ignored, we might start seeing that younger generation take over. This world desperately needs this technology. Go Rossi! Go Rohner! Keep going, all you remaining eccentric old coots! Go, go, go!

          • Stephen Taylor

            Robert, the output shaft looks highly inappropriate for even the down rated 274 horsepower of the display engine.
            You know I share your enthusiasm but as a “motorhead” this is a huge red flag.
            They use Harley bottom end (100hp basically) and down size the output shaft. The man is just telling on himself left and right.
            Sorry man, reality check. Very fascinating, hope it is true, looks like a total scam to me.

          • Robert Mockan

            I’ll have to defer to your judgment on this. Perhaps they do not plan to run the training unit at the rated hp?

          • Robert Mockan

            After thinking about this I have arrived at a more detailed answer.
            The use of a Harley bottom end may have some reasoning behind it. Without the torque specs for the Harley IC engine and the PlasmERG engine I can not prove this, but using the math of physics a valid statement can be made that if the integral of the work function over the 360 degree polar coordinates of the torque function is greater for the PlasmERG engine than the IC engine, both using the Harley bottom end rated for 100 hp, then the PlasmERG engine could generate greater than 100 hp without exceeding component stress designed for the 100 hp rating when used in the IC engine configuration.
            A quantitative analysis would require engineering data for the Harley bottom end when used in an IC engine, and data for the PlasmERG engine that was designed using the same bottom end. Dynamometer charts for each would be the preferred data required for further analysis. We know that PlasmERG has never made that data available for their engine (but if they sell the engine they will HAVE to provide that data, since there is no way to use in engineered applications without that data).

            From my instincts about probable IC engine torque curves, derived from the nature of internal combustion engines, and from some little knowledge about the torque curves of steam engines with extended steam cutoff (not usually done due to efficiency loss, but utilized for high torque requirement moments), I suggest the PlasmERG engine may be able to use a harley bottom end for at least a short time without tearing it apart if the hp generated does not exceed 3 times the bottom end rating, without stressing components into their red zone safety margin. I would not want to base safety on my instincts without extensive quantitative analysis of the physics involved, but it is possible the PlasmERG company has done their homework with their design and made the appropriate modifications to the Harley bottom end.

            As to the turning down of the shaft, where do you see that? I may have missed a comment about it in the video, but from the picture I do not see where the shaft was modified in that respect. If it was done, I agree now THAT would not make any sense at all.

          • Robert Mockan

            Here is more detail in reply to your comment.

            Here are charts showing the instantaneous peak torque curves from typical IC engines.

            http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/torsional_excitation_from_piston_engines.htm

            Notice that the IC engine must be designed to withstand peak torques, but hp calculations are made with average torque times rpm.
            The Harley charts are not available, but they would show the same kind of torque envelope. However, in the PlasmERG engine the expansion effect has been described as more like that of a steam engine than an IC engine. A steam engine has a different torque curve, with the instantaneous torques higher up on the y axis for a larger part of the shaft rotation. When the Harley bottom end is used for the PlasmERG engine it could be used at a higher hp rating if the “average” torque is higher, that according to the PlasmERG verbal description of their engine operation, is the case. Thus, in theory, they can use the Harley bottom end above rated hp.

            Actually, the only way they could know this would be to do the calculations, and there would be no reason to do that unless their “plasmic transition process” really does generate the expansion effect they claim.

            By the way, the reason trying to get more than the rated hp out of bottom ends is difficult when used in their IC engine application, is that the IC torque curves can only be modified slightly on average, and trying to exceed peak instantaneous torques to obtain greater calculated hp will exceed the component stress limits.

            On reflection PlasmERG using a Harley bottom end was actually quite ingenious. It made a smart design, light weight, the parts are available, and off-the-shelf.

            Besides all that, it is cool to use a Harley engine component like this. Should appeal to a lot of “motorheads” when they swap their ICE for a PlasmERG engine.

            As to other design details that look suspect, I can not comment about them without more information.

          • Omega Z

            Got a Copy. LQ.flv.

            Seen a single comment shortly after threatening legal recourse by one of Rohner brothers.

            Poof. GONE…

          • Karl

            Certainly interesting the Papp approach. This might be a real competitor but probably even better for the majority of us as it offers complementary solutions to Rossis and Blacklight’s approach. If this phenomena will be better or fully understood there will likely result in many more options.

            It appears to me that mother nature allow us to use a number of arrangements to turn matter, in the form of gas only (Papp) or metal and gas (Rossi et al) or through heavy water and palladium (F&P et al) all processes into clean energy. It seems to me that the phenomena require a kind of pre atomic ionizing process.

            The great thing with this that we not not need dangerous uran and the fission process or brute force hot fusion to create energy that is extremely poisonous.

            Strange and certainly extremely promising. The original Papp patent should also now in the public domain. Thus, there appears to me that several ways might be available to bypass current patent applications for newcomers in any of the third nuclear segment of clean energy.

            Robert, do you have any idea about how long time or how much energy each load of noble gas will last in the Rohner machinery and what it will cost to load it?

          • Robert Mockan

            Will, that is a good question. The engine cylinders need to be initially evacuated with a vacuum pump to flush out air, then Papp gas mixture needs to be added through a valve to some specific pressure. I suppose the closest kind of work I’ve had to pay for like this is getting the air conditioning system of my car fixed, where a system leak had to be repaired, then the tubing evacuated before refilling to a certain pressure with new fluid. That cost me $136, but $30.00 of that was the cost of refrigeration fluid.

            Noble gases are not expensive. I’ve used argon and helium in TIG and MIG welding, neon and krypton in experiments. In fact I have a gas bottle of krypton in my shop filled with 50 liters at 320 psi that I picked up cheap at a local surplus store for just $40. And have used argon and helium in rented gas bottles for welding that only cost a few dollars for the gas (a hundred for the deposit, but I get that back when I return the gas bottles).

            I suppose to make a guess, a Papp engine refill, depending on the size and horsepower rating, might cost a few hundred dollars at most, and most of that labor. But I’ve read several articles that the gas mixture only needs replacement about every 2 months or so. If the engine puts out a couple hundred horsepower for 2 months of constant use, then that might be a year of intermittent use, like for commuting to work. Even if a refill cost a few hundred dollars, that would be much better than paying my regular automotive gasoline bill of about $8000 per year.

            I suppose one could buy refill kits like we do for automotive air conditioning units that might cost $35 or so. If the Papp engine remains sealed one might not need to evacuate it for a refill, but just flush the old gas mixture out when replacing it with new gas mixture by connecting to the refill kit hose.

            As far as I have been able to learn no body really knows what is making these engines run, so much needs to be learned about the gas mixtures and why they work the way they do. I would expect prices to drop, for everything, as more is known, and with mass production.

          • artefact

            They say http://plasmerg.com/plasmf.html that one refill costs less then a dollar or three dollar a year for a 500 CC engine.

          • Robert Mockan

            Wow! I have enough noble gas in my shop to power an engine for the rest of my life. I spent $148 replacing the radiator in my car last week. The week before that the alternator when a diode burned out. A month ago a shorted wire took days to find and fix. Just in the last 6 months I’ve probably spent more than an engine would cost, even if I had to build it myself. And I already have the noble gases for the mixture. The Papp technology is beginning to appear the fastest and least expensive way to energy independence, and all the ramifications of that. Maybe time to start thinking about a boat again, then bye-bye crazy world! There are some islands in Micronesia I could easily spend the rest of my life visiting. With no boat fuel problem time to seriously start thinking out-of-the-box.

          • artefact

            Here is a new interview of John Rohner linked to at PESN

            http://larryseyer.com/index.php/radio-shows/tmdd/tmdd-podcast/939-john-p-rohner-ceo-of-intelligentry

            “John explains how what got him started was his brother saying it would be “impossible” for him to reproduce Papp’s technology. Describes the plasmic transition process and how noble gases can produce force to push a piston. Says one engine has been running 1 year, 3 months on one fuelling. Talks about various applications.”

          • Stephen Taylor

            Robert,
            this is somewhat of a duplicate of a slightly earlier post that is held up for a few moments perhaps.

            First I share your enthusiasm for this technology and will literally grieve if it does not come to pass.

            There may be a problem here. The output shaft is the key.

            Any shaft, be it transmission, axle, crank, or drive MUST be sized appropriately to withstand the TORQUE.

            The demo engines being built are not robust enough in their construction to handle the enormous torque loads.

            This is obvious.

            I hate it, but it is my amateur engine building, drag racing, done broke it fool mentality that tells me this is not what it is reported to be.

            274 horsepower and a lot more torque will break a downsized harley bottom when run against a similar load. It is not sensible that they have REDUCED the size of the output shaft.

            It stinks like dirty rat motor.

          • Robert Mockan

            Stephen Taylor,

            I did not see a downsized shaft, but a square bolt head of securing bolt holding on the white lined flicker disk (flywheel?) used for measuring rpm with a variable frequency strobe light. I thought the shaft end likely might have been bored and threaded for the bolt if non-standard, but not that the shaft itself had been turned down. Why would they even do that? I understand what you are saying about keeping all components in the bottom end within their stress limits. What I see as a red flag is using a Harley bottom end at all as part of an engine rated for hundreds of hp. I would think even the main crank bearings would shatter in short time. Even though never having seen the Harley specs, with an industry standard overbuild of 3 times they would be running it way into the red zone if safety was an issue (and surely it must be!). Maybe they modified it? I don’t know. But I hear what you are saying and agree this is NOT a reasonable design compromise to save money by using off-the-shelf components. Now I am also concerned again.

          • Robert Mockan

            Stephan Taylor,

            You had me going there for a moment, but I think I’ve arrived at conclusions about their engine design that can help alleviate some concerns. Those replies are further up in this section about the Papp engine. Of course in the end you may still be right and this is all some monumental joke, but if so it is a most sophisticated and involved one. But we should know for sure soon IF they really display at the PowerGen conference in December, provide more information, and make sales. Too early to know for sure yet with my schedule, but I may attend the conference myself.

          • GreenWin

            Interesting stuff! I suspect we’ll see a few magmotor type inventions surface that actually work. The Cat has opened the energy bag and I imagine it full of new toys, ideas, physics, and adventure.

          • Peter_Roe

            Karl, I agree that the Papp engine (usual caveats) would be complementary to thermal LENR, but only at opposite ends of the power spectrum. For domestic powergen, propellor aircraft/airships and vehicle propulsion (even retrofitting existing vehicles), the Papp engine would blow LENR out of the water (as such I can’t see the technology being ‘permitted’, but that is another matter).

            However my intuition is that the basic engine design could not be scaled other than by replication on a single shaft. (1) The process appears to be fast, so only small high-revving engines could be matched to the phenomenon and (2) the ‘plasmic transition’ appears to depend on an EM field within the cylinder, which limits the bore diameters that would be possible.

            Large scale hot cat technology on the other hand is ideal for heavy applications such as marine (steam) propulsion, industrial heating and grid power generation. I wonder if this is another reason that Rossi appears to be concentrating on industrial MW+ scale e-cat technology?

          • Karl

            Peter agree, the possible usable mechanical dimensions might be a limitation factor in comparison to LENR heaters which may be easier to scale. Rossi has also mentioned that he foresee that it will take a long time before the LENR heater could be usable in cars. Retrofitting in existing car technology would certainly be appealing with the Papp method. Imagine how clean the air quickly could be in the big cities.

          • Peter_Roe

            They might even make a sound similar to IC engines to keep petrol heads like me happy! (Not interested in batteries, although steam would have been good, too).

          • Karl

            We only will notice the sound of – pap – pap – pap

          • ChemE

            Guys,

            I believe this device uses the third type of Nuclear Energy known in the universe – Hawking Radiation emitted from the collapse of matter. The device has 4 steps, Ionization of gas using an arc, confinement and compression of gas using energized coils, ignition of the gas/collapse of the ions using the spark plug and finally evaporation of the micro singularity releasing radiation and heat. This happens with each “popping” cycle

          • Peter_Roe

            That doesn’t seem to match the sequence shown by the test apparatus (one discharge), and columnar confinement of a plasma by a toroidal field would probably momentarily reduce the pressure on the piston. Also Rohner says no significant heat is released during the process.

            I would like to know how/when the coil is energised though – they seemed to avoid talking about that.

          • daniel maris

            “The video has been removed by the user.”

          • ChemE

            They are rev limiting the engine to only 2500 RPM. After that it has a net buildup of heat and will overheat if continued. Since this thing is only firing 2500 times/min and generating 1500 hp in a 6 cylinder 360 cc engine this thing is scary powerful.

            Read the original patent, my explanation matches.

          • Lu

            *****
            Dear Neri B.:
            I must confirm that the COP will not change. So far.
            Obviously using gas instead of electric power to drive the reactor the economics are better.
            Thank you for your very kind attention,
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.
            *****

            For this to be true Rossi has found a way to apply heat from NG as efficiently as electricity to the reactor core. It’s a little hard for me to believe that this is true. That he can do it is itself remarkable.

          • Ged

            Well, you don’t have energy loss during conversion of electricity to heat, this way. So that may be what makes up for it all? Perhaps it’s just a matter of how evenly and rapidly the heating is applied.

            Still, it’s remarkable… previously all activations through heating without direct electricity have been half as potent as the latter. Must be a new material science he’s come across; and the new “reaction-between-tubes” design seems to speak to that.

          • Niemand

            In fact Rossi stated something like:

            Electricity produced by our E-Cats will pricier then common stock gas.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Well Lu, it is hard for me to understand how he is doing this. Must be new design to allow air or oxygen for combustion to occur, yes? How can fire be inside core with no air? Must be new. Hot cat is not sealed they say. Maybe a new variation on the new variation allows to provide air to the core.
            About the need to *focus* the thermal heat from gas flame: do you think it is related to the tip of the flame is hottest? How to move tip around inside core? Many tips? Yes may be. Some on, some off? Yes may be.

          • Ged

            Could be heating from outside, and just a better internal design to do more with that heat.

        • Peter_Roe

          @ZviBenYosef

          Ditto, except that I picked up on Rossi in Jan 11, like many others (was that PESN or somewhere else where the story was publicised? – I can’t remember). I initially followed the story on newenergyandfuel.com until that place became an ongoing argument about eating hats between 2 or 3 people, then primarily on ecatnews.com until that blog in turn was overrun by shills.

      • AB

        In early 2011, a friend mentioned that an Italian inventor was making copper out of nickel and I was not interested at first, but curiosity got the upper hand in the end and after a few weeks I started reading.

        While I did not find Rossi’s demos convincing there were none the less interesting and inspired some hope.

        To understand the topic better, I started reading up on on cold fusion that was when the transformation in me occurred, from casual reader to enthusiast, because it did not take long to understand that it was almost certainly real, despite the extreme opposition to the idea.

  • Warthog

    Since the original news came out back in 1989. I watched the whole original character assassination by the “hot physicists” go down and was totally disgusted at their perversion of science and the scientific method. And the same people (with some new recruits) are trying the same thing all over again. Some people are going to have worse than egg on their faces once the general public realizes that LENR is real and was delayed for twenty years due to the politicization of physics research. I wonder if any of them will have the intellectual honesty to step up and say they were wrong.

  • Mark

    Folks,
    Just finished reading the mystery/thriller about
    selling a license for 1MW E-Cat by an Australian ‘businessman’,
    or a middleman; highly recommend,
    had a lot of fun, see the site.

    //shutdownrossi.com

    Still puzzled if Robert K. is a real man
    or a set up to find whether e-cat is a real thing.

  • Pingback: New Poll: How long have you been following LENR/Cold Fusion? | E-Cat News Live Feed()

  • Robyn

    I watched the Pons Fleischmann story very closely, but since then nothing until this March, when a chance meeting at Starbucks pointed me to Rossi’s work.

    • I’ve been following Blacklight Power for about four years now, and Rossi for about two and a half. I strongly believe that something is coming within the next couple of years. i’d like to know what Mills is up to these days.

      • GreenWin

        Follow LENR to find out.

  • Tom

    I remember watching a documentary on cold fusion and the Pons & Fleishman experiments at the beginning of 2011. At first it seemed crazy but I have yet to see anything disprove the effect and so will continue following intently.

  • AstralProjectee

    I first heard about it, maybe it was in 2003-2004, but it was not until I watched the first cold fusion show that aired on TV about cold fusion back when it originally aired in 2009 I think that I started following it regularly. And when I watched the first airing of cold fusion on 60 minutes it was not an accident. I purposely knew exactly what they were going to talk about and the ramifications of it before watching. So I am proud to say that I was one of the very few that saw and followed cold fusion, LENR from the beginning anticipating it and watching it unravel. Also I as only month off when I Rossi first came out with his device e-cat device. Soon all of you that have been following will be clad you followed it too.

    Peace.

  • eps

    Back in 1989, I was following a boring lecture when my friend told me about a new and exciting energy source. We were sure that it would totally change the world in a few years. Little did we know that it would take well over two decades to get even this far.

    After a long quiet period, I restarted with pesn about a year ago. I soon moved here since this site is so much better.

    There’s something that I don’t understand. How come so may interesting LENR news seem to come from Italy? Do they know something that the rest of the world doesn’t or what?

    e.

    • vbasic

      Good question about the Italian scientists. I hope someone in the know can give a good answer. It would help explain Rossi’s work since he was acquainted with or worked with some of them. There’s probably a good book to be written there in the years ahead.

      • Francesco R

        I guess why you are so surprised… probably since you do not know the history of these last twenty three years related to LENR… and of the last centuries about modern science, otherwise you should know how many Italians made fundamental research and discoveries in Physics and other sciences.

  • Anonymole

    I propose another poll.

    What is your position regarding Andrea Rossi?

    A) I’ve believed from the start and still believe.
    B) I believed at the start but now have serious doubts.
    C) I doubted him from the start but am willing to wait for positive verification one way or the other.
    D) Rossi has been a fraud from the very beginning and has played us like a Stradivarius, stringing us out while we bow to his hearsay.

  • Alan Marshall

    I became interested in LENR in January 2012 when “The Australian” newspaper published Dick Smith’s response to an invitation to invest in the Australian rights to E-Cat technology.

  • Brian

    A little over 2 years.

  • I’ve been tracking it for a decade.

    • Lawrence Cotter

      since 1989! Magazine like infinite energy and the internet later on, kept updated on all the happening in the CF field. This should have happen 23 years ago. Death to the New Age Witch Burners Don’t forget P and F

  • Paw Suddergaard

    I’ve always been interested in (alternative)energy sources. Bu the LENR caught my attention last year with all the hype around Rossi.