New Poll: What Would it Take For You to Be Convinced About the E-Cat?

Now Andrea Rossi has given us a date on which he says a validation report will be published, I have been wondering what its impact might be. So I’ve decided to put the question to the readership here in a new poll. What would need to be included in a published report for it to convince you that the E-Cat is indeed the breakthrough source of energy that Rossi claims?

I realize the answers in the poll may not match your exact thoughts about this test, so please free to expand on your answer in the comments section below.

  • Miles

    “Cures” wasn’t enough evidence.

    I would like to see an official report or document, with trustworthy verification from multiple 3rd parties, indicating a self-sustained energy, continuous for 6 months at 600c. To me would be 100% convinced and possibly Government announcement from Obama.

  • Jeff

    I’ve said this many times, and I don’t want to get banned. But the answer for me is when somebody who is really (really) independent – like a small local power company in the central U.S. – can buy one.

    Rossi has shunned the formal scientific process. This is completely forgivable given the 23-year history. But the formal scientific process exists for a reason. It’s like convincing a jury of your peers that your evidence is good enough to to win a case in a civil court.

    So if he is going to shun the formal scientific process and also not sell anything, what reason is there to believe him?

    • I’ve sat on four juries in criminal cases; the analogy is not a good one. If the path through the gauntlet of scientist/peers is not available or is biased, then the commercial path is rational. In which case he owes nothing to we-the-groundlings but only to those who are about to make a purchase of a product.

  • Jeff

    I just attempted to post a comment that pumped a competitor of A. Rossi, and it was subjected to “automated mod”. This is a frightening.

    • So…hyphenate it.

      • Jeff

        As you can see from the noise I put in the group, I tried a few experiments attempting to figure out what I had to hyphenate but haven’t been able to. I already added enough noise, I think I will just conclude it’s a mistake/messed up mod SW and let it go.

        • Kim

          Set up the Hot Cat on National Television

          Give them 1 week to show total input
          and output energy as a function of COP.

          Nothing fancy. Signed by at least 3
          Thermal Engineers.

          Respect
          Kim

          • Kim

            Better Yet

            Sell give 25 Hot Cats to
            future Customers.

            All Customers must report in 1 week

            Respect
            Kim

        • the snake

          All right, a big announcement of a breakthrough.

          But will Rossi beef it up? Did he ever??

          We’ve seen this for so long now. Defkalion made a big announcement but nothing came out of it.

          After these papers will be published, there will be the same uncertainty as before and some new promises by Rossi.

          • Kim

            Lets Test Under Writer Laboratory

            What the Heck is Taking so long!

            The best test is to sell product to the
            custormers that are waiting for Home
            Ecat.

            Tell UL to give it up!

            You and I know whats really going on

            Stall, Stall, Stall

            The best test that it is real is
            that Under Writer Laboratory is STALLING!!!

            Respect
            KIm

          • Kim

            E-cat and Bankers can not exist
            together.

            One of them has to go.

            Which one?

            Respect
            Kim

          • D The Designer

            I have deep respect for your vision. Sold product is best proof. And UL stalling is next best proof.

      • Jeff

        All I was trying to say was that another player in the subject area was worth a careful look. If you are paying attention this week, you have already looked.

  • The test would have to be conducted by scientists from a university of repute, and those physicists to have experience in experimental methods, not just lecturers in physics. They would need to perform the tests as a service, i.e. without compensation of any way shape or form. They would have to conduct the test over a period of a week and show there is more energy out than there is energy put into the system by at least a factor of two. Finally, they would have to swear to commit seppuku if they are later found to be wrong.

    • Miles

      Title: Hydrogen storage no longer up in the air.
      Source: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/08/16/3569478.htm

      “Scientists have developed a safe and practical method of storing hydrogen in nanoparticles, opening the way for its wide spread use as a fuel source”…

      Maybe Rossi needs to see this article? Does anyone think the current method / technique of hydrogen consumption in this article could potentially further aid the development of the e-Cat’s?

  • Jeff

    This is a test with a different magic word: Rossi

  • Roger Bird

    When we have reliable 3rd party verification, I will believe. The 3rd party can be someone whose money is at stake, or someone whose reputation is at stake. Otherwise Rossi is on probation.

  • The fact that the mainstream media were not even prepared to give Fleishman a public obituary in Australia and are now too petrified to feature a reasoned argument against current LENR research , as they did on the ABC some twenty years ago , is reason enough for me to have no doubts whatsoever that LENR is genuine .The premier of our state has just terminated the contracts of five thousand public servants and is cutting costs like a madman left right and centre in every public sector .Of course this is the direct result of a gready, inherently flawed American banking system .As I have stated previously we need cold fusion over here like a hole in the head at the moment.

    • Publication in Science or Nature would certainly do the trick. If I understand UL correctly, they don’t guarantee a product works, only that it is safe. Maybe a demonstration, like running The Grove mall in L.A. entirely on an E-Cat would persuade a lot of people and attract reams of publicity – or run the LA Times printing plant on it. Actually, though, the word of scientists like Peter Hagelstein and Franceso Pirelli about how their devices worked is proof sufficient for me, if not for naysayers.

  • Torbjörn

    I am already convinced

    It’s impossible that no heat was produced during the oktober 6:th demo last year, when the E-Cat was running in self-sustained mode. (Flat temperature curve, and the temperature rose a little twice during the tre and a half hour self-sustained mode, and Mats Lewan checked all the cables in all possible ways. The heat could only originate from the reactor body, supposedly measuring 20 x 20 x 1 centimeters.)

  • GreenWin

    A different poll would be; what will it take to convince me scientists choosing to ignore LENR data are not crackpots??

    • D The Designer

      Their grades in a REAL ethics tests. Their grades in the brevity tests. & maybe their views on Agenda21.

  • Robyn

    For me to be convinced?

    Well, I’m convinced about LENR. So that’s already me with a glass of koolaid in my hand.

    For the E-Cat in particular, third party verification will do.

    But the real clincher will be when Rossi releases the details of the system, catalyst and all.

    I want him to receive a trillion dollars if he gets the world off of Oil.

    But fundamentally this needs to be a public domain technology that the world can prove over and over in every high school in the world like we do with other basic physics experiments.

  • Cliff Bradley

    Sales of e-cats to people, companies, universities, and governments who use them for their designed purpose would convince me. Everything else is either experimental or fantacy.

    I’m with Rossi, in that useful products trump scientific curiosity.

    Figure the science out completely later after you are heating a building or running a submarine with an e-cat. Then, once the science is figured out completely, there will be an explosion of different ways to do LENR. However, you don’t need the science to be complete to heat a building if you understand how to produce the effect consistently.

    • Stephen

      A very simple one not requiring to open the eCat “black box” nor to disclose any “secret”…

      It’s called double-blind test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_experiment)

      1. Prepare two parallel reactors including Ni, catalist and all the rest… but NOT the hydrogen load.
      2. A third party prepares two perfectly identical gas bottles: one containing hydrogen, the other something else… say nitrogen or, in general, “something else”… and plugs them to the two eCats.
      3. Run the eCats in parallel for enough time in order to get the steady-state and get the output temperatures and performances.
      4. Disclose the content of the bottles and check if the results make sense.

      Do this a number of times (6?) in a row with a perfect match between H2/”something else” and working/not working eCat and I will believe.

      PS … very important: of course the third party should be a person which can be identified, who has no connections with the eCat and who can be trusted beyond any reasonable doubt.

      • Stephen

        But ok… most probably he will now show this…

        So let’s say it would be good to see a test RUN (not witnessed) by a third party whose identity is known and who can be trusted beyond any doubt… with the third party able to check all the temperatures, electrical inputs, flows, etc as they like. I would find this convincing and almost conclusive.

      • Chris

        Indeed I’ve long been thinking, why does nobody ask Rossi to demonstrate it with such a comparison. Rossi could even specify which gasses would not harm the inside element.

        But in any case Rossi has shown little interest in convincing the scientific community according to their standards. From the onset, he has always said he aims to show customers to their satisfaction. He is not a scientist, he is an entrepreneur and he might not want to be bothered with a double blind test. The study of thermodynamics was not started by physicists, it became a topic of physics quite a while after many engineers had been gradually improving their steam engine designs.

  • David

    Verification from a respected independent 3rd party user such as consumer reports. Industrial use over a period of 6 months or more. Public demonstrations carried out over a period of weeks by a major and respected University or Scientific Institution that had been able to completely dismantle the unit and study it without oversight from the manufacturer.

    If it went to market without any of these I would have to wait for reviews from those who purchased the unit and actually put it to work in a real life setting.

    • MK

      Exactly the same for me.

    • georgehants

      The Independent
      News > Obituaries
      Martin Fleischmann: Electrochemist at the centre of the 1989 cold-fusion controversy.
      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/martin-fleischmann-electrochemist-at-the-centre-of-the-1989-coldfusion-controversy-8053976.html

      • daniel maris

        Well that’s one person who should be ashamed of himself: Martin Childs. How can they possibly not mention the NASA LENR Patent, DARPA’s findings, the EU’s findings, the involvement of NI etc etc?

        • Stephen

          Maybe he does not even know? Or just heard something which sounded quacky? I am convinced LENRs should be investigated, and quite seriously and with an open mind. But be sure a lot of friends who are serious and honest would conclude I have turned crazy for thinking that. Many people don’t know and/or don’t care. Maybe it’s sad but there is a big barrier to overcome here, maybe even bigger than the Coulomb one 🙂 … anyway, if LENRs are real this will come out and this people get their “revenge”.

          • Stephen

            However indeed… thinking again, if one writes an article like that it would be nice that he gets informed and provides information about all the sides of the controversy.

          • timycelyn

            Sadly, this is the standard that has appeared where papers have even bothered to note the passing of this great man.

            The BBC one was very similar indeed. It’s quite startling, and does make one realise the huge hurdle of indifference and ignorance that has to be climbed. Has shaken my life long reliance on them for news – if everything else they do is as bad, I might as well not bother keeping up at all as they are certainly the best of what now appears to be a very bad bunch.

            Mind you, when things really do let loose, it surely will be a very wild ride. I predict:

            1. Intial focus on the fact that this new thing has burst on the scene, what it can do, what it means…ad nauseum once they get going. It will be treated as a total, wonderful, surprise that has ‘just happened now’.

            2. Somewhat later, one or two ‘malcontents’ will start getting air time on how it has been ignored, leadsing to a 20 – year travesty.

            3. This will get but scant attention as everyone will be busy with the ‘what does it mean for me & the future’ and looking at the goodies

            4. Those with guilt in this area – depending on how one plots the consequences of the delay, actual blood on their hands – will by and large successully spin ands weasel their way out. Other than on blogs like this there will be no grand calling to account.

            Sigh.

          • daniel maris

            IN this day and age I don’t believe they don’t do a quick google check before they file it – plus this came out ages after he died.

          • timycelyn

            …and is quite well researched as far as the distant history is concerned.

            It’s just as if all the current activity – and, lets face it, uncertainty – is ‘not to be mentioned in polite society’.

            It’s like old maids writing a life history of Christine Keeler (a very famous lady of negotiable affections at the centre of a 1960’s govt/sex scandal that brought the then UK govt down IIRC) describing her schooling, artistic accomplishments etc., but totally omitting a rather large and relevant chunk of information.

            And no, I am not into conspiracy theories. Cowardice, yes.

          • Charles

            An ON-OFF-VOLUME switch.

          • Jacob

            Till I see and touch it.

          • Friedl58

            I will be convinced when it is sold and the customers confirm it is working as described.

          • Barry

            Jacob, are you quoting Thomas?

        • cx

          99 percent of newspapers worldwide rely on AP for their world reports. So unless AP or one of other huge media has a positive article nothing will change 🙁 .

          • timycelyn

            Ah – of course….

    • Dave

      It’s simple. Let an independent, reputable 3rd party do a black box test of an E-cat that’s long enough to exclude any chemical source for the heat and let them publish the results. That would convince me that it really works. There is NO reason why Rossi hasn’t done this yet, other than he knows the E-Cat doesn’t really work.

      • Andrew Macleod

        So your 100% convinced he is a fraud?

  • AB

    A serious independent entity confirming that it is real. Nothing more is needed.

  • Robert G

    Data showing clear useful energy production signed off by qualified academics.
    Would also like to see it actually working

  • Gabt

    Clear useful energy production for 10 days straight, with initial input for less than 4 hours. Rossi needs to sleep so pay a few guards 24/7.

    And the set-up needs to be visible to general public, not pre-selected entities. Maybe pay a ticket to enter. There is no need to show the inner workings of ANYTHING, internal temperatures, or the like. Just that it is self sustained for 10 days and there is no cabling around. Put objects on tables with thin legs.

    He needs steam to energy conversion turbine for that, downstream to the e-cat. An UPS (or battery) with limited capacity can be attached after the turbine to feed back a more reliable sine-shaped AC current to the driving electronics.

    He can show useful energy is being produced by the excess steam not converted to energy. Or attaching fans/heaters driven by excess energy.

    There is no need to reveal or explain any inner working of anything, industrial secrets or the like. We are not interested (right now).

    There is no justification for not doing this. The more he goes on not doing this simple thing the more he is either a moron or a scam.

  • georgehants

    Updates from ICCF-17
    Thursday continued…
    “I marched in as Professor Vladimir Vyovskii offered his interpretation of the empiricists’ findings. My jaw dropped when he took a large hammer to Planks constant, ħ. He bent it horribly out of shape. He said that ħ lives on the border between classical physics and Quantum physics and therefore it should be stretched out to cover classical physics. All you classical people now live in a quantum world.”
    http://coldfusionnow.org/updates-from-iccf-17/

  • Peter Poulsen

    Either a public test validated by a respected third party. We dont need to see the secret catalyst or anything. Just clear proff that the machine is working.
    OR if NI or Siemens which he have said he is/have been working with, is coming out and publicly say the device works within the efficiency range of what Rossi have stated.

    • Malmahey

      The mythbusters guys giving it the thumbs up.

      • Andre Blum

        Hmm.. once you are asked to speak out, it turns out that “convinced” is a
        much more difficult word to grasp than it looks at first sight.

        The word has in it some notion of a threshold that can be passed in both directions.

        You may be unconvinced of something at first (“magenta is not a color”), but somewhere along the road build up knowledge or encounter “proof” (http://www.biotele.com/magenta.html) that makes you consider yourself convinced of that fact.

        Likewise, you may consider yourself convinced of something (“swans are white”), but somehow get new info that makes you unconvinced (seeing a black swan). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory)

        Following this insight, I now declare myself convinced of the e-Cat being real, but with the realization that by some unhappy event in the future, I may be thrown back to the unconvinced state.

        • Jim Johnson

          Yeah, that.

          I think it comes down to “functional” conviction. Are you willing to tell your friends about it? Do you follow the news about it attempting to understand how it works? Do you think creatively about it what it might mean? It is difficult to do these things if you have strong residual doubts, let alone destructive skepticsm.

          Goedel’s Theorem says truth is stronger than proof. Knowledge is always finally relative. At some point you have to make a choice.

          I’m way into functional conviction on LENR. As for e-cat…

          There is too much reported activity from, about and around, Rossi, too many reputable names involved, and too close a pattern of excited, cautious, zealous entrepreneurship, for me to be able to seriously feel that e-cat is NOT real. As Sherlock Holmes would say, the remaining alternative, no matter how unlikely, is that it MUST be real.

          I no longer stay with that question more than a fraction of a second. I’m onto questions about COP, radiation, physics, specific construction formulas, intellectual property rights, and so on.

          • dennis lynn

            Allow NASA to test it in under super strict conditions with a sustantial financial guarantee made to Rossi in case “patent level
            info” is leaked to outsiders.

          • NASA strongly believes in and funds LENR. Has not helped this reach mainstream media. The public is more concerned about Kim kardashian.

          • dragonX

            Kim Kardashian is REAL. LENR (at least useful LENR) is still being debated. 🙂

          • dragonX

            If I see Siemens saying what Rossi is saying and showing time tables on when they will release the product, then I will believe them.

            Of course there is the ULTIMATE proof which is : RELEASE THE E-CAT to the masses through a small factory even if its not in USA or EUROPE. If certification is the blockage, then DO SOMETHING to release it without certification wherever you can.

            In other words, release the technology to the masses and fulfill your destiny as a hero of humankind.

          • Jim Lahey

            Never heard of Kim Kardashian. I won’t believe she’s real until I can see and feel her myself!

          • NJT

            You and a small group of us REAL thinkers are already out of the box. The rest of the world will eventually figure it out – hopefully!

      • edog

        why not!

        • hammerskoj

          Cures is alive and well [see Cobras forum].

          • timycelyn

            link please?

          • hammerskoj
          • Ivan Mohorovicic

            last message:
            04:55 18/08/12

            So he is still alive.

          • hammerskoj

            He returned. I think he likes nord Europe. Italy in August is very hot.

          • Ivan Mohorovicic

            Sweden?

          • hammerskoj

            Ivan ,
            … why do you say so?
            Anyway, I like Sverige; my grandmother was born in Goteborg.

          • captain

            Said link http://www.cobraf.com/forum/PostsByAuthor.php?authorid=3233 is an impressive source of interesting news about Rossi’s job and LENR that only who knows Italian has the opportunity to fully appreciate.

  • Carmania

    I’m already convinced the LENR effect is real. However I’m unsure if it’s just an interesting phenomenon giving a few watts with a low COP or a useful solution to the worlds energy demands.

    I would be convinced about the latter when I see it for sale for any regular consumer to buy it. However, I would wait to buy it until I could read reviews from real consumers. I’ve seen to many products that “work” but is still useless in practice.

    (I voted “No report can convince me of the reality of the E-Cat”)

    • Marc

      Very low COP I think is not a very big problem. First of all: there is hardly any technology that is highly efficient in its initial phases, so unlikely that this remains so.
      Secondly: in view of the size of the apparatus, bundle a 1000 of them with 48W surplus each, and you have 48Kw, within the space of a modern day power generator: not too bad..

  • Chris

    What I would mostly like, would be ample clarifications about his methods for maintaining stability. He often talks about the importance of this but it seems he uses nothing other than the input heat to control the rate of excess heat produced and, apparently, needs to be ready to (somehow) damp it if he tries it out of his tested limits of stability. I would like to know exactly how he damps it.

    To me, this is the greatest of the shortcomings of his design and I don’t know why he doesn’t excogitate a system based on some better principle. Although I have a few vague ideas about how he might be working his method, it has cast a few doubts about some of his statements. What got tome was that, prima facie, it sounded as if he said further input heat must be available for when the necessity comes to limit the reaction; this just didn’t make sense.

    The only conjecture that makes sense to me is that, for non experimental “self-sustained” running, his drive brings it to not quite self-sustaining conditions, so as not to risk passing a critical point, but near enough so as it lasts for a while with a gradual decrease, till the cycle is repeated by applying input heat anew. I can’t think of anything else that would match up.

  • Blanco69

    Sorry to step off the thread here but I’ve just been looking again at the Cures hot cat picture. With the claimed temps being thrown around should we not see some form of thermal air distortion comming off that thing? It’s been painted black to make it emit energy better but I can’t see the effect of 800 degrees in the surrounding air. Surely, the thermal convection streaming off the unit would be highly visible. Science guys?

    • timycelyn

      Mmmm I noticed that when I first looked at them. The effect is due to the lower density in the warm air layer close to the hot object, leading to the optical path through it being slightly curved as the density – and thereby the refractive index – changes.

      To get heated enought to show a good distortion, air has to hang around a bit. The only way I could account for it is if I assumed that the air around it was moving quite quickly, maybe a fan somewhere near the photographer.

      However the hot cat is getting hot (nod to the skeps at this point) it has a bright orange centre and a little spot in the clay suggesting that the shell is at red heat as well. So this is about why this undoutedly hot body displays onlyt small amounts of optical distortion.

      My only other point is that it is rather small – these air effects are better seen over larger surfaces….

  • Lu

    For me, an E-Cat turned over to a respected, well-known third party who after testing/using it declares that it works. By turned over I mean given over by Rossi with his hands-on involvement ceasing. The third party can be a company such as Siemens, an academic group such as the University of Bologna, or a government/military organization such as the US Navy Research Lab (NRL). By works, I mean it generates significant excess heat in the muli-kW range over an extended period of time at a COP of about 6.

    I don’t really need to see the data or the process they used–that would be for scientists or engineers to go over. That the E-Cat works should be pretty easy to validate and exact measurements are not necessary if it is allowed to run long enough.

    By the way, in my view the totality of the evidence is now strongly in favor of commercial LENR being a reality or a near reality (with 1-5 years).

  • Stanny Demesmaker

    Don’t people get it, the univerty of Bologna already gave the confirmation of the test, just by saying nothing and by not giving a public statement that Rossi is lying.

    • dragonX

      Do you know what happened when Apostle Thomas said that he will believe only when Jesus will let him touch the critical wound?
      Jesus let him do it and Thomas was “accommodated” so he can believe to!

      If people are asking for hard evidence, then don’t tell them that they should believe you without touching. Tell them they should’ve believed you AFTER you let them touch and they believe.

      No touching, no believing, it is SIMPLE.

      • Stanny Demesmaker

        That’s why National Instruments began investing in LENR after their collabation with Rossi. They’re probably very religious people. Now it makes sense to me.

        • dragonX

          You are dead wrong! National Instrument said it themselves that they started supporting (not investing) LENR after Fleishmann, in 1989. They are supporting because they sell their instruments. They are supporting everything that sells their instruments.

          • they supported positive and negative position on LENR after F&P.
            they wanted the clearing of that affair.
            No negative proof exists, only failures. No explanations of others positive results.

            Only one good result, like the one of NASA GRC, or SPAWAR is enough to prove LENR exist.

            No need of 200 replication… but there are.
            No need of tens of watt, but there are.
            No need of megajoules, but there are.

            this is why facing the report 41 Science decided not to look at it.
            It seems also that before report 41 they took the risk to look at a report, and since it pass peer-review, it get rejected.

            How can you imagine that NI risk it’s credibility for a so poor community of fringe scientists ? they have no budget, they are begging for instruments… they are not YET good clients.

            but when it will be accepted (it is already clear since 89, with multiple replication, despites failures- it is rock solid since spawar 2005, or with hidden NASA GRC report in 89), then NI will be a hero about innovation.

            by the way tell me the trick about Celani DEMO (25% anomaly in heating for a hundred days)… supported by similar lab results.
            with an experimentalist having worked on leading edge technology at CERN, and having found the firsts evidence of High temperature Superconduction… with a paper that Science have rejected because too early and not respecting theory dogma.

            open your eyes, ITE MISSA EST.

          • dragonX

            Stanny Demesmaker argument is that NI supported and even invested in LENR only AFTER collaboration with ROSSI and just because of the E-CAT.
            Me and you proved that assessment wrong. Do you agree Alain?

          • Omega Z

            dragonx

            I’m aware NI has been involved with the research for years.

            A more accurate statement by Stanny Demesmaker would be they became drastically more involved after working with Rossi.

            Which may mean they see a breakout coming in the LENR technology.

            They do sell equipment & software for LENR research, but in the scheme of things it doesn’t amount to much in profits. With all their donations, most of those profits are gone. It’s now an investment toward future profit.

            The big profits would be providing controls & software for a large percentage of the potential LENR market should it happen. All the after market products would be up for grabs. Who you going to call. Those already in the know…

            They work with Rossi & the Johnny come lately. There covering all the bases. There a leader in the market before it is a market.

            Smart Business Move.

          • Elias

            Believing Rossi for me would require public demonstrations with the products, commercials, global companies getting in on the action, the scientific community as a whole confirming… the factories not only being planed but actually built… radio and tv writs of nothing else for several weeks.
            I would also like to see conflicts over water resolved, less war, occupying force drawing back etc

            And why not a global lenr holliday and a 72 hour world wide goa party….

            I want to be convinced without a doubt beyond 99.99% certainty and Rossi has not given me the reason to say I am there. For that reason I also have to consider the possibility of this being a Scam… All outcomes are possible.

            The Rossi believing LENR community is like a small Island on a wast ocean of “game changing energy devices”.
            No honey, no money!

          • ChemE

            Did you notice that cold fusion development is very UNCERTAIN across the board? Do you want to know why? It is a bigger deal than you think.

            http://wp.me/p26aeb-4

          • Ged

            We shall have to pit ELTB against this Singularity (it needs a better name I think 😛 ) theory for explaining LENR. A battlebots style rumble?

          • Ged

            Maybe Frank could make a poll about which theory people think best explains all the observations, or if they have their own, etc.

          • NJT

            YES!

          • GreenWin

            Like it Ged. But do enough people really KNOW what these theories propose??

          • NJT

            I guess the sun will not rise tomorrw…

  • Al D

    I’m a believer, as I think most of the people on this forum are, but I keep reading about very expensive new deep sea oil wells being drilled with exotic (and in my mind dangerous) new drill rigs and research into new ways of making coal a more acceptable fuel along with other news which suggests that large investments in fossil fuels will be around for a long time yet.

    I don’t think the rest of the world will believe until they can buy a competitively priced LENR powered automobile or walk into Home Depot and buy an E-cat with a 1 year warranty.

    • J.Titor

      It’s not a question of believing or being convinced. It either works or it doesn’t. That’s how science works. Once he has working product on the market or a schematic for working model that can be replicated it can be considered complete, until then it’s just research.

    • s

      Why doesn’t Celani simply load 4 or 5 wires with hydrogen and send them to NREL to test with instructions? Only 1 would need to work in case there are issues with the other 4. This would answer all questions.

      • dragonX

        Celani is taking his time. He has the right to do so. He promised very little and delivered very much. “Grazie” to him.

  • dragonX

    I see 99% of the readers of E-CAT World is saying they want REAL evidence and less inflated words.

    In short:
    1. Either show us the product in a reputable third party environment with no Rossi in sight.
    2. Or make Siemens or some reputable company (even university) to come out and offer FULL SUPPORT to E-CAT claims. And I mean a rich company that has EVERYTHING to loose from supporting fraud.

    If I see Siemens saying what Rossi is saying and showing time tables on when they will release the product, then I will believe them.

    Of course there is the ULTIMATE proof which is : RELEASE THE E-CAT to the masses through a small factory even if its not in USA or EUROPE. If certification is the blockage, then DO SOMETHING to release it without certification wherever you can.

    In other words, release the technology to the masses and fulfill your destiny as a hero of humankind.

    • dragonX

      Am I still under moderation with this comment?

  • Robert Mockan

    Knowing what would convince people is useful information. The majority of people becoming convinced is something some groups might want to …AVOID… as long as possible.

    Ask yourself this. If you BELIEVED that LENR technology could replace existing sources of energy, and that once marketed existing machines that make and use energy would need to be re-designed, and would be less expensive,
    might you not DELAY buying existing products, waiting for when you could buy the superior, less expensive products?

    What would that do to the profits of corporations with vested interests in the status quo?

    To AVOID having people believe, might you do what you can to make sure no accepted evidence is publicized, and where such evidence is publicized, might you not have agents in place to question the evidence, to denounce the researchers in the field, to claim that the entire subject is nonsense, that even if it is real it would take years, perhaps decades, before any useful products are made using the technology, and so on .

    23 YEARS AND COUNTING, PEOPLE!

    • Robert Mockan

      Well, that is not going to work any more. Here is another research team doing some interesting work with LENR catalysts that do not need any external power to generate heat.

      “..A variety of materials tried with hydrogen and deuterium. Best results 1-2W per gram of Ni35-Cu8-Zr57 and Hydrogen, at
      573K (300°C) running for weeks quite happily. They found adding Cu to NiZr made it work much better. ”

      ***Adding Cu makes it work much better!***
      (Celani is using Cu55Ni44Mn1…lots of extra copper, so that seems to be a useful additive in these kind of alloy materials).

      What I have found is that these kind of alloys can be mass produced for less than 5 cents per gram of materials. Many of the nickel/copper/zirconium alloys can be made and activated for 1 cent per watt, and seem to be resistant to destruction by the LENR process. Heat sources at 300 degree C and higher, indefinitely, using light hydrogen OR heavy hydrogen, without using ANY electric input to make the reaction go, just self generated heat, will be serious competition to any LENR device that needs electricity or an external heat source to operate.

      Rossi? Back in your court. High temperature is good, but high COP would be better.

      • Omega Z

        Robert

        I understand the waiting for the next improvement concept, but disagree with people who do that at this point. If E-cats come to market tomorrow & do as portrayed, There’s going to be a long waiting list.

        If I’m looking at years I’ll replace what needs replacing figuring it will pay for itself in the mean time. If waiting a few months isn’t detrimental to circumstances I may wait. Otherwise not.

        One poster here complains a lot because he wants it now. He should do whats necessary & allow for a retro fit in the future. Allowing for future change usually doesn’t cost much more. Saves a lot of costs latter.

        As for Rossi & Higher COP, He say’s there’s good reason for the limit. We’ll have to wait & see if the documentation explains anything about the subject.

        Just speculation, but it may be when LENR is scaled up to useful level that beyond a certain COP, Radiation levels rise. Things of this nature may also be why Rossi limits the cores in the 10Kw range. Cures did mention that the Hot cat reached 20Kw for short periods in their experiments.

        You seem to to be more knowledgeable of this then most of us posting. Have you given any thought to these possibilities.

        • Robert Mockan

          I have thought a little about LENR issues. Without new verified information all one can do is just speculate about the new developments. Higher COP may have increased radiation, especially if there is more than one level of nuclear active site activation. So, the sensible solution would be to increase shielding. If the Hot cat has done 20 thermal KW at over 1000 C with still 1.5 grams catalyst, all Rossi need do is increase COP to at least 10, better 20, and he owns the world. So whatever reason he thinks is a “good” reason for limiting COP, it could not be good enough.

      • Melchior

        A certification from RD group at Siemens-Sweden before 10-9-2012

    • LENR is being patented on too many fronts. I am guessing the courts will decide who deserves the tech, but many are claiming they invented it.

      Like Alexander Graham Bell vs Gray. Bell beat Gray to the patent office by a short time.

      Like Marconi and Tesla with the radio. Many people think Marconi invented it but Tesla was awarded the credit.

      Oil companies won’t care. Oil is old business and oil tycoons own as much shares in Coca Cola and McDonalds as they do oil. I am sure many of them also want a green planet for their grandkids.

      The money people could save on power would allow economies (Europe and US) to spring back into recovery. This will cause excitement and promote recovery.

      Sell your sailboat today because it may be worth squat in a few months. Everyone will want a powerboat that can go for months without slowing down.

      The President should give a speech about this. This is huge.

      “decades before something useful can be made”…. Huh..
      this ecat is tiny meaning it could produce on board or in trailer power for existing electric cars, and homes. If you had a choice between $100/month+ gas charges vs a $1000 modification to allow it to run on on-board created hydrogen from the ecat and generator, you might choose to go green very quickly. I think I would rather drive my current car into a lake than spend another dime on gas once this hits.

      Small cars will vanish with sailboats as batteries are replaced with on board power generators. Cars will become extreme and lit up like a vegas hotel. It may take decades for the excitement to turn down, but there will be a boom to replace other power unlike any in history.

      Jobs will be lost in the green/nuclear/normal energy companies, but the increase in consumer spending will create far more jobs. This would be a miracle.

      Not to mention the effects on global warming, poor communities access to power and clean water and refridgeration, and their abilities to grow food.

      Imagine taking a deep breath of pure country air in the center of any city and air pollution is a part of history as 600 million less polluting cars/trucks are on the road.

  • Fyodor

    Real validation by an independent third party with unfettered access to the device and the ability to design its own test.

    As someone who would love if this is true, I get somewhat annoyed with the credulous reporting on this site. Rossi has repeatedly promised third party validation and/or public access to working products and not produced it. He may have good reasons for these delays, but it’s very frustrating to see each new promise passed along unquestioningly.

    I appreciate Mr. Acland taking his own time to run this site and I understand the desire for this to be real, but I’d love if he could use his access to Mr. Rossi to try to get some corroboration.

    1. Who performed these validations that are coming out? Him or the professors? Did they design the tests or him?

    2. Why can’t he give us the names of the professors involved in the test?

    3. Have any of the licensees been allowed to test the E-cat themselves? What kind of financial commitment have the licensees made?

    4. He says that his product is being tested by a certifying authority? Can’t he authorize them to acknowledge that they are testing his product? I understand that these things are normally confidential because the product maker does not want this information revealed. But certainly Rossi can authorize them to do so.

    5. He says that he is assembling a network of installers. How? From where? Has he prepared service manuals for them? Have any of them been hired?

  • Mark

    I will be convinced from a leak
    by any person, who is servicing
    1MW E-CAT sold in December 2011
    and running in a self-sustained
    mode since then. I cannot believe
    that a person watching a miracle daily
    would keep his mouth shut and
    not telling the press or his
    buddies about it.
    Warm regards…MZ

    • tom

      Very easy. A working setup where everyone can check it for themselves.
      Too few people I can trust.

    • Is Andrea Rossi out to prove it this time?

      Will he get 10th party testings and so forth if the public does not accept it well?

      I wish someone would ask him these questions.

      I believe he has the goods, but will he go back into secret hiding for another year and perfect this more, or is he happy where he is. He seems to continuously improve, so does he feel it’s ready for market?

      I would love to know if he is committing to awareness this time, or do we need to sit on our hands for another year?

      • dragonX

        It is refreshing to see Kwhilborn asking also the same SANE question. Enough is enough on believing. You want us to believe and to spread the news about ECAT? Please provide some real trustworthy evidence in September-October.

      • MJS

        I nor any other sane business person would release anything that would disrupt my business advantage in the market place. This isn’t about being a scientist nor some charity organization that wants to “save the world.” It’s about having a successful business and making money.

        I couldn’t give a damn whether some geeks in academia reproduce his device or figure out a good E-Cat theory.

        Seeing reputable customers use the device is all that is need to buy one. Robust experience trump’s everything else hence the sentiment that if “it works” then who cares if you don’t understand it.

        • mrG

          Seeing reputable customers using even a partially working but working to the promised spec unit would convince me. Rossi always seems to put us off, instead of showing anything at all, he announces he’s moving on, bored with the tech promises he didn’t deliver, he’s now “on the verge” of something new. This is not good business, in any sense, because it undermines consumer confidence. If Defkalion et al are also above board in their claims, then Rossi will have stiff competition, so his best asset right now is to have consumer confidence, brand recognition that is paired with impeccable reliability and honesty. We haven’t seen that from Rossi, and true, perhaps he just isn’t a very good business man, or he’s old-school pre-network and doesn’t realize that the buzz is undoing him (I mean, look, the man still types in ALL CAPS for pete’s sake). He has an image problem easily exploited, as we’ve already seen, what with his prior failed businesses and all.

          so if he has ANYTHING it would serve him best to release it, if only to establish himself as at the head of the pack. From what Defkalion also said about the physics involved, this method is going to be so easy (and cheap) to replicate, Rossi should give up any notions at all of becoming king of the world, he will at best be like the PC or cell phone manufacturers, enjoying an initial rush while the world gets saturated, and then hoping only for a buy-out by the recognized brand that does prevail in the public eye.

          • MArc

            Well.. in order to convince me, it would certainly help that DARPA would come out and frankly state with which power source they are going to power this:

            http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/08/darpa-autonomous-robotic-surface-vessel.html

            😉

          • Actually Andreaa Rossi has always done exactly what he said he would do and when he would do it. He has demonstrated the ecat for a year before he went private again.

            I am convinced he will give us third party verifications, but is he planning on creating ecats now or is this a pre-emptive strike at the patent laws.

            My concern is he may go back into secrecy instead of standing behind these verifications.

        • Andreiko

          The science and politics are in a fix how they go liberate themselves? (

          • Ivan Mohorovicic

            No mention of Celani’s Ni-H demo at all here. I wonder why?

            New energy times: ICCF-17 Update and News

            Perhaps because acknowledging it works makes denying that Rossi could have something, look stupid?

          • Sanjeev

            It was covered in detail here: Good pics.

            http://blog.***.com/2012/08/07/lenr-gets-major-boost-from-national-instruments/

            Insert newenergytimes in place of ***

          • Sanjeev

            It looks like links to newenergytimes are censored here. My posts are getting auto-deleted.

          • admin

            I’m not censoring NET links, Sanjeev — I have included links to there myself. Maybe my filter is catching something else. I’ll check

          • Sanjeev

            Thank you Frank. I was also wondering why its not appearing. NET is somewhat twisted but sometimes useful for new info.

          • Ivan Mohorovicic

            If one only read New Energy Times, he would think that Celani’s Ni-H demo only ran for 6 hours. But actually it kept generating excess heat for days!

            At ICCF17 the same demo (with same active wire, reactor, etc) kept running from tuesday to friday CONTINUOUSLY receiving much attention from attendees, acknowledgements by the US Naval Research Lab, receiving interviews by Korean TV, assistance by local National Instruments engineers, etc. Why no mention at all?!
            Recently disclosed Kobe-Technova results aren’t mentioned either (again, successful Ni-H LENR technology). Why?
            Why some of the most promising and interesting practical LENR results in YEARS don’t receive any coverage at all, or if they do, get dismissed as if nothing special happened??

            It almost looks as if news of successful, useful, working and open Ni-H LENR devices are starting to become inconvenient to some LENR reporters who called Rossi a scammer all along.

          • Sanjeev

            I guess, we can’t depend on Krivit alone. He does have most of the papers presented there on ICCF17 page.

            Any links to Korean TV coverage ?

  • Robert Mockan

    For what it is worth, National Instruments seems to believe.
    Take a look here:

    https://decibel.ni.com/content/servlet/JiveServlet/download/23750-1-51320/TS

    Page 18 shows the effects of copper additive. Of course Celani is getting much more power out per gram, but the use of copper to improve performance seems clear.

    • Kim

      Well at least National Instruments
      realizes that the Nickel-Hydrogen
      scenario can release the equivalent
      of 10 million gallons of gasoline
      per gram of nickel.

      At 800ev per atom of nickel
      https://decibel.ni.com/content/servlet/JiveServlet/download/23750-1-51320/TS
      Page 25 (last page)

      Respect
      Kim

      • makarov

        I’m not quite sure I understand the presentation (no surprise, I’m not a physicist). But it does not suggest nickel->copper transmutation, does it? It specifically says “metal fission.”

      • Time to replicate LENR instead of waiting. They have their diagrams published already.

        Thnx

        Stmess

      • Chris

        “800ev per atom of nickel”

        Well although that is much more than chemical reactions, it doesn’t strike me much to make a song and dance about. Moreover, I don’t see how it could imply 1 g of Ni being equivalent to as much hydrocarbon as you say.

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          In layman’s terms, with 800ev per atom how much energy would 1 g of Ni be able to generate? btw, Celani’s konstantan compound should be at least 40 times better than Technova’s.

          • Ged

            Nickel has an atomic mass of 58.6934 amu. So, one mole of nickel would be 58.6934 grams. We have one gram, so that means we have 0.017 moles. A mole is 6.02*10^23 atoms, so this means we have 1.025*10^22 atoms. At 800 eV per each, that is about 8.2*10^24 eV’s of energy.

            1 eV is roughly 1.6*10^−19 joules of energy, so that means we have 1.312 MJ of energy per gram of nickel, if I am doing this calculation right. A gallon of gasoline is 131.9 MJ.

            Now, a gallon of gasoline is 2,650 grams. So, a gallon equivalent of nickel would have 3476.8 MJ (3.48 GJ) of energy, by this method they describe.

            As Makarov points out, hydrogen is actually doing the fusing, so why is this in terms of eV per Ni atom? This is especially pertinent since not all of the nickel is going to be catalytically active (hydrogen can diffuse about 30 um into nickel).

            If my calculations are wrong, please correct me.

          • makarov

            Ged – that’s it, exactly. It would seem that the NI presentation, then, is at odds with most, if not all, of the LENR players who have variously claimed metal-metal fusion.

            I would think that NI’s presentation would revive much more thorough treatment and analysis given that it plainly does not agree with statements for current LENR players. To put it another way, I’m not aware of ANY current LENR proponent that claims their reaction involves hydrogen fusion.

            For example, given that Rossi has claimed metal-metal fusion (nickel-copper), what are his thoughts on the subject? Surely the hydrogen consumption in the E-Cat has been accounted for such that hydrogen-based fusion can and has been excluded from the reaction.

        • makarov

          Looking at page 25 of the NI slides, it appears that hydrogen, not Nickel, is reacting or fusing, so the energy per atom of Nickel is confusing.

    • georgehants

      Andrea Rossi
      August 17th, 2012 at 2:11 PM
      Dear Dennis Lynn:
      To convince the global community about the fact that we are manufacturing plants which work regularly, producing megawatthours in the industrial applications will be our plants, not our reports. The World demands facts, not papers in this field. Nevertheless, papers have their importance, when they are referred to facts: in our presentation at Zurich we will describe the validation tests which we made in July and in August with our High Temperature E-Cats.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

      • dragonX

        Mr. Rossi.
        What we need is not more words (papers) but more important names (big names from industries or academia) supporting your claims.

        You are repeating about the plants going on sale soon and at the same time you are saying certification takes forever and ever. Which is it? Do you have a date for showing your product to the world (not only the selected people you like to invite based on their obedience to you)?
        And if the “magazines” that will publish your “signed” independent test turn out to be JONP and PESN and such, please don’t even bother.

        Please release ECAT or release names that we can trust.

        • Chris

          Rather presumptuous.

          Are you interested in buying his product?

          If you are, you shouldn’t be asking for other customers’ opinions as much as wanting to kick the tyres yourself. If not, then you have no business making such demands; follow the news about scientific research instead.

          • dragonX

            Excuse me? I should not ask questions but believe blindly like YOU? Go…

          • Jim Lahey

            “Excuse me?” – Made me lol, ty. Time for a drink.

          • agni

            It may interest you that the rumors are true about SIEMENS and ecat.
            http://register.dpma.de/DPMAregister/marke/register/1033362/DE?lang=en

          • Ged

            Only problem is that was registered back in 1982, it looks like.

            Although, I guess working with Siemens would prevent any sort of Ecat trademark battles.

          • timycelyn

            Actually, they acquired it in 2009

          • skeptic

            Results of the poll so far:

            I am already convinced (25%, 155 Votes)
            >>>I don’t understand these 155 votes. Convinced by … what? There is nothing at the moment, nothing at all.

            No report can convince me of the reality of the E-Cat (5%, 31 Votes)
            >>>This is also wrong. You must always keep the option to change your mind when you are presented with evidence.

            Data showing clear useful energy production (9%, 54 Votes)
            >>>Data alone is not enough, as I could give you data right here, right now. Here look: Useful energy production: 10KWh. It doesn’t mean anything. The important part is to verify that I did not make up the data.

            Data showing clear useful energy production signed off by qualified academics (61%, 382 Votes).
            >>> This is the only way to be sure. Results checked by an independent party.

          • Chris

            Seriously, Dragon, where did I instruct you to believe blindly? BTW, I don’t either.

            You can ask him all the questions you like, but the presumtion of your post is a different thing. Rossi owes you nothing until you sign a contract with him.

            If you can’t understand a post then avoid replying to it.

        • GreenWin

          What utter, old school propaganda DDD drivel. Introduce doubt. Gee, someone took Debunkery 101…. wow.

        • @DragonX “You are repeating about the plants going on sale soon and at the same time you are saying certification takes forever and ever.”

          My understanding is that the industrial (original type) e-cats are available now, but presumably only to customers not requiring safety certification (military). It seems likely that the next step is to get appropriate European industrial certification that would allow them to be acquired by non-military entities, but the ‘certification’ frequently referred to is UL testing for domestic units, which will almost certainly never happen due to a mixture of genuine and ‘introduced’ concerns.

          • Chris

            Over here, Aldo Proia of Prometeon srl seems confident they will have certification for industrial use by September. I hope it doesn’t fall through and that soon there will be enough of them around to dissipate doubts.

      • Joe

        georgehants,

        May I ask where in the JONP you read that reply from Rossi? I cannot seem to find it.

        • Francesco CH

          Here:

          http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510&cpage=61#comment-303971

          Dennis Lynn
          August 17th, 2012 at 11:09 AM
          Dear Mr. Rossi,

          Do you feel that the the report you plan on filing in September 2012 and the additional testing in October 2012, will be sufficent to convince the global community that the technology that you have “unleashed” via your ecat designs is indeed real and capable of shifting the energy paradigm, in the very forseeable future, towards a new, lower carbon era?

          Dennis Lynn

          ———————

          Andrea Rossi
          August 17th, 2012 at 2:11 PM
          Dear Dennis Lynn:
          To convince the global community about the fact that we are manufacturing plants which work regularly, producing megawatthours in the industrial applications will be our plants, not our reports. The World demands facts, not papers in this field. Nevertheless, papers have their importance, when they are referred to facts: in our presentation at Zurich we will describe the validation tests which we made in July and in August with our High Temperature E-Cats.
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.

          • Joe

            Grazie, Francesco CH.

        • Don Witcher

          Rossi answers questions here regularly.
          http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510

          • Joe

            Thank you, Don Witcher.

      • Kirit Yo

        What I like to see is a demonstration where they put the e-cat thing into an electric car. Then they would drive it non-stop from New York to Los Angeles and back. Of course allowing journalists and others to follow it so we could be sure no new fuel was added along the way.

      • Quote from http://www.rossilivecat.com/

        • Bob Saunders
        August 18th, 2012 at 1:48 AM
        Dear Andrea Rossi,
        I am sorry that the portrait of the Hot-Cat has leaked, but I must admit that at the same time I find it very interesting. Wow, 1200C, that is really HOT! Does the picture show the Hot-Cat at full power, over 13 kilowatts?
        Kin regards, Bob Saunders

        • Andrea Rossi
        August 18th, 2012 at 3:00 AM
        Dear Bob Saunders:
        I do not know when the picture has been taken, but could be.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        Look at Rossi’s answer: he knows well how to do his Leonardo Co. CEO job 🙂

    • Jim Johnson

      The fact that the report is from a completely separate group than Rossi and friends is impactful.

    • Jim Johnson

      It’s also interesting that they are focusing not on attempting to prove that a phenomena exists, but to find the optimal materials. Embedding nano-particles in a ceramic, optimizing the NI/CU mix; that sort of thing will be the basis for serious intellectual property.

  • hammerskoj

    New ICCF-17 paper preprint of Hora, Miley, Prelas, Kim and Yang:

    http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/STAFF/VISITING_FELLOWS&PROFESSORS/pdf/LENR%20Korea%20ProceedXX.pdf

    … “In this case the emission of many more 60 millions of neutrons during 5 minutes were measured fully reproducible in a sequence of experiments.”

    Interesting …

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      Doesn’t the emission of “fast” neutrons invalidate Krivit’s beloved Widom-Larsen theory? No wonder this isn’t mentioned in his latest “ICCF-17 Update and news report”, together with Celani’s and Technova Ni-H LENR results which give credibility to Rossi.

      • Ged

        ELTB theory all the way, yo!

        Widom-Larsen never made sense or fit the data, to me; and fast neutrons definitely falsify it as it is.

      • hammerskoj

        No W-L, indeed. But …”their colliding energy of several 10 meV is sufficiently low that minor van-der-Waals forces or the increased Casimir forces [?] at the pm distance may lead to the state that the deuterons clinch together and form clusters.” is questionable, too.

      • hammerskoj

        Cures quotation from Cobras forum:

        http://www.cobraf.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=5747&reply_id=123479989#123479989

        [a few days ago] … I have lengthy talked with an outstanding theoretical physicist who has confirmed to me that they all are till groping in the fog [about LENR].

        • Ged

          It’s totally ELTB theory.

        • Omega Z

          In the beginning all the theories will be lacking & in the end we may have multiple theories depending on the specific approach.

          Some may involve fission, some fusion, some fission & fusion & maybe something totally new. A whole new world of research.

          • NJT

            Too bad the majority of our so-called modern physicists are unable to accept anything but old school dogma. They are now in a closed box which they are incapable of thinking out of.

            I refer specially to those who back stabbed P & F with their break through initial experiments in 1989 that are now being proved as correct…

  • Fisher

    Pardon my ignorance. I’m no physics major or anything but have been following Rossi for over a year now and love science.

    I hear about cars, boats, planes and homes powered by LENR but how would you convert the heat to energy if not by steam or other medium? Would a LENR reactor/sterling engine be powerful enough and also fit into a small car or boat?

    What about a single resident power system using steam, salts or sterling engine? Would it be compact enough and powerful enough? There could be other methods of conversion from heat to electricity that I’m not familiar with.

    Anyway, thanks for your patience and I hope that it all turns out to be 100% legit as I believe that humanity is the main source (if not the only source) of global warming. We simply must get off of fossil fuels asap.

    • Ged

      Such cars/boats/vehicles would probably not use steam; they’d covert heat to electricity through other means, such as those listed by LENR Cars.

      However, it -could- be possible to directly use steam to drive a car, and back in the early days of cars this was done. http://www.gavinshoebridge.com/news/steam-powered-cars-could-make-a-comeback/

    • Tony James

      A thought about cars.

      If electric cars were to become the dominate type on the road, the industrial e-cat being a significantly cheaper source of power would make them cheaper to recharge and make recharging areas more viable. For example, imagine having Parking Meters contain an electrical plug. You park your car, put in your money to pay for an hour, then plug the car in (along with some type of lock to prevent others from unplugging you), when you return to your car you’re all set. Likewise Parking Lots and Decks could install plugs in their parking spaces as additional “perks” to draw in patrons.

      • NJT

        I like your idea, but I believe you are proposing very simple things that are way above the grade level of our current city, county, state and federal leaders to comprehend. Your methodology would help fill the tax void that is coming (when oil is no longer need). As I said we need a thoughtful leadership capable of thinking out of the standard box – which will not happen for a long time I fear…

      • Karl

        I rather foresee the car loaded at the time of manufacturing and driven virtually during its life time possibly without any refilling requirement.

        • Fisher

          Well, how big would a power plant have to be to generate enough power for say, 25 homes using LENR? Would it have to be as big as a natural gas plant? Could you tuck one into a neighborhood or into a city block? Don’t just say “yes”. Think about it. I’m hearing an awful lot of ‘dreaming’, and dreaming is good, but I’m not hearing a lot of ‘how to’.

          The problem, as I understand it, is effectively (not necessarily efficiently) changing the heat into electricity.

          If you have the means of creating enough electricity with LENR to recharge cars all day and it’s footprint takes a quarter of an acre of space or less then it can be located anywhere off grid and far from major power plants…Now your talking. A charging station can be dropped onto any piece of real estate in the city or the middle of nowhere.

          So, how big would a plant be that could charge 1000 cars? How big would it have to be to power 100 homes?

          A LENR ‘engine’ that can power a car that fits into a 4’x4′ box…now your talking. But, if it is the size of a fire truck then that is just not going to happen.

      • The ecat can be the size of a flashlight. generating power on board is already feasible if we believe rossi.

  • alexvs

    What Would it Take For You to Be Convinced About the E-Cat?
    A WORKING UNIT.

  • Anonymole

    E. Public demonstration of two or more e-cat units;
    • setup, tested and verified by three separate university teams and two state teams, each independently writing up and publishing their results;
    • exclusive of Rossi’s or a Rossi cohort’s involvement;
    • performed with public news-TV and webcam monitoring over the course of one week’s continuous operation;
    • fully isolated from any possible energy contamination;
    • with signed affidavits of the attending state officials presented post demonstration.

    Anything less would just be more “Rossi Says.”