E-Cats Large and Small

Andrea Rossi is all over the map now with his E-Cat plans. We have been learning about plans for barrel-sized 1 MW plants; now there’s something else in the works. Rossi said yesterday, “We will test soon reactors very small (2-300 watts of power). For the future, not for short term sales.” He clarified later that he meant 200-300 W.

I’m not sure what the best applications would be for 200-300 watts of heat — but there are plenty of electronic devices that could use those kinds of power levels. Of course in that case you would have to find a very efficient way to convert the heat to electricity, and it would have to be direct conversion to make sense at those levels. Leonardo is apparently working in that area.

By last report, Andrea Rossi said that Leonardo now has 63 employees, and I imagine that most of them will be working on the engineering and R&D side of things. With all the new developments we are hearing about there would most likely be people with a wide variety of expertise involved. One thing that might account for the rapid progress that apparently is taking place is if the E-Cat theory is well understood within Leonardo Corp. Instead of haphazard progress coming from somewhat blind experimentation, a deep understanding on what is going on within their reactors would allow them to exploit the process much more rapidly.

  • Sergio

    Poor argument. There are plenty of companies and organisations in the world with 1000s of employees, and none produce any leaks.

    • The reaction is very real along with the heat and radiation observed.

      The primary problem remains scaling up a technology which is inherently unstable due to its nature. When you combine fission, fusion and collapsed matter you unleash a torrent of safety and reliability problems. This is the real reason for the delay to market in all of these devices, including magnetic impulse motors and will remain that way until all the issues are resolved.

      I discuss this in my blog.

      ChemE
      http://wp.me/p26aeb-4

  • Paul Stout

    Where I work, that is not only possible, it is our way of life. There are ethical people in this world that can keep secrets.

    • Roger Bird

      I am very excited about LENR. But I am having trouble getting excited about Rossi until such time as we have some proof about what he says. Otherwise, responding to him only encourages him if he is a crook or a lunatic. And what is so revealing about a demonstration of the hot cat. Celani, one of my LENR heroes, has made a demonstration and nobody could figure out how he did it, yet they know that it was genuine LENR. Why can’t Rossi do this? Rossi has time to respond to emails, but he doesn’t have time for one little demo that would not risk his industrial secrets.

      • edog

        Agreed Mr Bird!
        Lets hope Rossi has proper 3rd party validation… in the mean time!

        or maybe he doesnt know how to use a camera??? or have one?

        Has anyone asked why he cant take a few happy snaps of his working devices/ factory etc??

      • Cliff Bradley

        Rossi has already done demos. What purpose can be served by doing another one before his plants are ready? September 10th is right around the corner. Working plants in the hands of users that need them is the only thing that matters.

        • Roger Bird

          Cliff, those demos, which is exactly what I want, confirmed LENR and LENR-on-steroids. But Rossi has made a lot of other claims since then, in particular “hot cat”, and until I see a demo or other good reason to believe him, those claims are just claims.

      • mcloki

        What does he gain from that? Your approval is worthless, financially speaking. It gains Rossi nothing. SO why do it.

        • Roger Bird

          Not quite, but sort of. If lots of people believe that Rossi has something, this will influence venture capitalists. Furthermore, he has enough time to chat, why not show us an ECat running at 1000 C. His chatting is also worthless, but a genuine 1000 C ECat would be much more fun.

          • freethinker

            mcloki is right.

            He has the financing he needs, he need not convince anybody to get more funds. And convincing you or I at this point in time is not important. To convince certifiers is very important, and when that is done, and there is a product out for you and me to buy, it will market itself and we’ll buy it. That is if he truly has the goods….

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            Interesting, but what would convince you that you saw a genuine ECat running at 1000C and not some show?

            I would also like to see that hot cat, but then the whole problem of the validity of such a show would rear it’s not so pretty head.

            So what would it take to convince you that Rossi has something? To make such a test worthwhile would probably cost Rossi a lot of time and still people would be skeptical. It’s a Catch-22 dilemma: Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

      • GreenWin

        Question:

        IF Rossi is a “crook or a lunatic” – what does it make the 63 people working for Leonardo? And what about all the name professors, industry and government officials around him after two years?? If he’s doing magic, it may be more powerful than the LENR he is inventing.

        • Jacob

          200-300 Watt is suitable to run your desk top computer.

          • Not so much. Seebeck generators peek out at about 10% efficient. At 300w, that’s 30 watts available. Then there’s the question of the COP of the device. If it is the 6 that Rossi has been reporting for the home heating unit, well, we’re behind the 8 ball.

            The device, however, should be great as a proof of concept. Hopefully in the not terribly distant future we’ll see a unit the size of a laptop battery or so able to run the laptop. (Of course there’s still the question of the 1/2″ thick lead shielding.

            Let the R&D begin, but a heck of a lot of it will happen before every device is replaced by LENR.

          • And if you think the cooling fan on your laptop is noisy, wait for the one in a CF/TEG ‘battery’ – you could strip paint with the exhaust hot air.

          • Fibber McGourlick

            Good for heating tents. Would be very useful for that purpose in refugee zones.

        • Roger Bird

          Who said that he has 63 people working for him? I really want to believe. And all of those professors, etc. They were with him when he proved LENR and LENR-on-steroids. But I haven’t seen those professors etc since Rossi has made all these other claims, like a big factory, 1000 C ECat, etc. Rossi clinched it for me for LENR-on-steroids. It was very impressive to see that hot steam blasting out of that hose for minute after minute after minute. The box could not have possibly held that much water plus a chemical heat generator. I am a believer in that. But he keeps making more claims. I ain’t saying he is a crook or a lunatic. I am saying, show me. Show me what you have.

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          I agree Greenwin. It is the basis of my slightly positive view of Rossi that his story is too elaborate, too difficult not be true. So many people are involved that it seems extremely difficult to keep issueing these statements on JONP without the whole thing blowing up on him.

          That said you’d never have believed that a guy named Madoff could have pulled of the scam that he did for as long as he did…

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            Admin: Why are most of my comments awaiting moderation?

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Let’s face it, Rossi’s challenge is not to convince us. We don’t matter. His challenge is to convince the establishment that his device does not present a threat to the status quo. That’s why he publicly keeps emphasizing that his invention complements the present infrastructure and will smoothly be integrated. Privately, he probably explains how revolutionary the E-Cat will be.

            With respect to BigOil, Rossi is heeding Admiral Yamamoto’s lament, “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.” Rossi is trying to avoid a “Pearl Harbor” and attempt an immaculate seduction. He is experienced in dealing with the entrenched establishment. Don’t be surprised if the hated Koch Brothers are already on board.

          • Omega Z

            Iggy

            Admiral Yamamoto was an Intelligent man. Educated in the U.S. (West Point I believe) He new what was to come. He said at 6 months the tide would turn. It Did. Down hill all the way after that. The U.S. took him out exactly 6 months to the day of Pearl Harbor.

            He was also an Honorable Man. As soon as he found out that the Attack at Pearl Harbor had commenced 5 minutes before the Declaration of War on the U.S. was delivered, He withdrew his invasion force from Hawaii. He considered it Dishonorable to attack without prior warning. Most Americans don’t realize the attack was meant to be an actual Invasion. Hawaii was to be taken as a stepping stone to the U.S. mainland.

          • captain

            Rossi is going ahead with his job like a German panzer and he virtually says to the establishment that his invention is unstoppable,

            And most of all, that the states aren’y the sole country for E-Cats, hot cats in particular.

            As I’ve posted other times, it’s a warning to USPTO and UL not to delay too much their jobs (in China certificators could work on a 3 shifts basis, surely!).

            Other countries are eager of E-Cat technology…China, India, Russia.

            It’s clear that actually hot E-Cats thermal/electric plants are still in a development phase, but IMO within 6 mths the music would be played by a whole orchestra.

            remember Elvis’s .. It’s now or never.. tomorrow it will be too late..

          • I get the impression that Rossi may have already quietly given up on the US. If he did, it would be unsurprising, as corporate domination of politics there would virtually guarantee interference with the progress of CF through patent and certification processes.

            Things may not be vastly different in Europe, but with few remaining internal energy resources other than coal, and increasing hostility towards nuclear fission, acceptance of CF (on limited terms) is far more likely here.

          • timycelyn

            And the EU is far from homogeneous. Watch Sweden….

          • Yes, Sweden does look like a possible. The UK of course will ignore CF until EDF wants to build cold fusion power stations here (and the US govt tells Camoron its OK).

          • GreenWin

            And the PTB tell US govt it’s okay to tell Camoron. Gee, you’d think the people had absolutely no say these days.

          • How silly of you GreenWin. Of course we have a say. Here in the UK for example, every 4 years I get a 1 in 75,000 say in which particular parachuted-in. grasping. motor-mouthed retard I want to get his or her face in the trough while voting as instructed and totally ignoring the oiks who put him/her there until next time around. It gives me a warm, secure feeling knowing that I live in a democracy where, even if I don’t ever bother to vote again, it will not make the slightest difference to anything, anywhere.

          • GreenWin

            Peter, thanks for again confirming my impression that dry British wit is unsurpassed in the annals of humor!

          • The capricious auto moderation software has become sentient and is now drunk with its own power.

      • Omega Z

        Roger

        I understand people would like another Demo. But Rossi has given multiple Demo’s already. Other then Making you/us feel a little better, they serve no real purpose at this time. In the End we would know no more then we do now. He’s not going to disclose his secrets. Because of this the Skeptics will still attack. Probably more so.

        Demo’s are Not Cheap. Most would be shocked at the actual cost of a Demo. Possibly 10’s of thousands. Hundreds of man hours. Materials etc.. Weeks in preparation.

        When you determine the actual cost, You then DOUBLE that. These costs & time could have been spent advancing the process. It Will delay a product to market & these costs are incalculable until after the fact.

        If Rossi doesn’t have anything, it doesn’t matter. If he does have a working product then he should push full steam ahead. A Demo would just be another Delay…

        • Roger Bird

          Just because a demo would not serve any of Rossi’s purposes does not mean that it would not serve one of my purposes, which is to get excited about what he is doing. I want to believe.

          • GreenWin

            Roger, your frustration IS excitement. I suspect you will be impressed and pleased you were here at the very beginning. It’s a helluva tale to tell the grandkids.

          • Omega Z

            That’s what we all want.

            But what would be better then a Demo is a Customer coming forward & saying, We have 1, We’re using it & It works as described.

          • clovis

            Hi, Omega, and guys.
            Your suggestion is a good one but Mr. Rossie
            chooses not to demo for a reason, a lot will be revealed, soon, on the 8-12th, just a few days.
            Then we will have a better idea, about what is going on , i can hold my breath that long, –smile.

        • Omega Z

          It’s dawned on me that Many of us are hung up on the total self sufficiency of an E-cat. We think from our personal point of View.

          Think Corporate for a minute.
          You have a hugh plant using 1 Megawatt of power.
          Rossi has mentioned a possible 50% conversion rate with the Hot Cat.
          You buy 2 -1Mw Electric Cats=1Mw Power. This provides your 1Mw of power.
          Your still need to purchase 300Kw to run the Cats. But that’s still a 70% savings.
          The numbers aren’t exact, but you get the Idea. You also get use of the heat loss for heating or cooling. CHIP plant.

          Even without total self sustain, there is a market.
          Better E-cat COP can come later.

          • Venno

            Thinking corporate

            You have an existing plant with a 1 mw gas or oil fired boiler
            Do you replace it with a 1mw ecat
            You will most probably have to upgrade you electricity supply by 200Kva
            Not being able to supply 200KVa the local municipality will force you to add 500kVa to you supply and so the costs creep up
            Yes I did not forget about the payback period but you have to take the cost of electrical upgrade into concideration
            What do you do?

          • Many small industrial boilers already have good power supplies to act in a standby role. For example a paper mill I recently did work for has a 1.2MW boiler with a 400KVA electrical supply in case of problems with the primary gas supply (not enough for full production, but sufficient to keep things going). Like many such installations I’ve seen, the boiler is a skid mounted unit in an accessible metal shed and would be an easy drop-in for LENR.

            However I think AR’s target market is probably the power generation industry, where boiler outputs are measured in the hundreds of megawatts. I very strongly suspect that the COP=6 thing will quietly evaporate once hot cat boilers are marketed, and available incoming power supplies will not be an issue.

          • Filip47

            Ofcourse, but a self sustaining Ecat makes you dream.
            Also it’s not written that there is going to be a cerification for homecats(hot), honestly, I’m starting to have doubts. That way gouvernments can still have control over energy.

          • Karl

            To my mind it will not be very easy to convince a potential customer to replace a traditional even costly and dirty but working solution with a 1MW industrial E-Cat container. You mentioned that you may need to upgrade your electrical supply or arrange for gas heating to prevent it from overrun.

            Further, one has to admit that the E-Cat is a new and untested energy source in the market. In the form of the container it will still be considered a prototype.

            Even now I believe it would be interesting as an emergency solution where any kind of infrastructure is missing or has broken down.

            The home unit or the small energy devices envisioned by Rossi would offer a much clearer market case. This even if one to some degree is dependent on minor extra electricity from the grid of though a gas supply. This is already the case with various air to air or ground to air/water heat cold or vice versa conversion, already used in many homes worldwide.

            Of course the possibility to entirely self-sufficient operation changes a lot. Perhaps it would offer a great value to speed up sales should a self-sustained operation being physically demonstrated, perhaps through two E-Cats. After such demo sales of such units could perhaps start at least in less regulated countries than US and Europe.

          • G_Zingh

            Something to think about. Consider the commercial price of electricity and natural gas in 2011 to a country like Italy. Where the price of elect/gas was 0.167/.035 = 4.78 times as much for industrial electricity over the price of natural gas.

            So for a 50% efficient power generator with natural gas driven Ecats at COP=6 then 1kW natural gas gives 3kW electrical.

            So if you are use to paying .167 per kWh electrical you are now paying .035/3= .01167 per kWh electric because of the Ecat.

            That is an order of magnitude in price difference or 10X less expensive for Ecat generated electricity for industrial use over what is offered over the grid. This could be a huge market and easier to access than the home heating market because of certification. I keep thinking about all those factories in India that had to shut down because of the their recent power failure problems.

            epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php?title=File:Half-yearly_electricity_and_gas_prices,_2011s2_(EUR_per_kWh).png&filetimestamp=20120522140751

          • Andrew Macleod

            “home cats” Won’t be on the market for a while! That’s why Rossi is pushing the industrial side of things. With industrial he will have many units running he can still make money to further the economic side of things and set a status quo. With 13 1mw plants working for industry he will amass over 10 million hours of run time per year and this will go a long way twords setting safety standards for home ecats.

    • georgehants

      Andrea Rossi
      August 30th, 2012 at 10:12 AM
      Dear Mark Saker:
      All our production has to be certified.
      The safety certification for the industrial plant has been completed for the low temp. plants.
      The certification for the Hot Cats is in course.
      The certification for the domestic apparatuses is in course.
      The NDA we have with the Certificators does not allow us to give more info regarding the certifications so far.
      Congratulations for your glorious Newspaper,
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

      • edog

        Hey George!
        Any idea what newspaper Mark Saker is from??

        And I agree with your comments below! Have a look at Franks pol. 600 plus rational people… 200 or so believers and 55 weirdos! We have a pretty good group here!
        🙂

        • Mark Saker

          The Stamford Mercury – oldest newspaper in Britain. They’ve kindly agreed to let me publish an article (I’m not a journalist).

          It is a local newspaper – we have to start somewhere! I encourage you all to do the same. If it publishes online too, I’ll post the article.

          • georgehants

            Well done Mark.

          • Second that!
            Good luck Mark… There are quite a few guys on here who are really know their LENR stuff, Im sure if you ask they would gladly help with info for your article?
            …but maybe youre one of them 🙂

          • GreenWin

            Great vision Mark.

  • JamesA

    Hank Mills Report: a single, small “hot cat” (weighing about ten pounds or 4.5 kilograms) can produce high temperatures up to 1,200 degrees Celsius or higher. At the same time, Rossi asserts that a single module can produce approximately ten kilowatts of power.

    http://pesn.com/2012/08/30/9602172_A_Barrel_of_a_Hundred_High_Temperature_E-Cats/

  • georgehants

    Guys it is a difficult situation with Rossi et al, lets just keep it calm, we are doing the right thing, give him his chance, if he is not genuine we have not been fooled, but if he is genuine then none of us has abused or denied him.
    We wait for Evidence, that is the way it should be.
    No abuse, no denial, just follow the Evidence.
    No crime in being optimistic, far better than the childish, deniers that condemn every scientist for suggesting another way, another answer.
    tolerance and patience will lead to the TRUTH.
    Only the TRUTH matters, everything else is rubbish.

    • Kim

      Celeini’s Demonstration was similar to the
      wright brothers first flight witnessed for
      20 or thirty seconds.

      Lots of optimism, lots of caution.

      We know it works, and like the first flight the
      question becomes how long.

      And with Rossi, it becomes how much energy?
      ect…

      Sept 10th will give us solid third party reference.

      another level of confidence.

      I am so excited for mankind.

      Respect
      Kim

      • GreenWin

        Wonderful Kim!

      • Andrew Macleod

        I believe it’s October for the 3rd party stuff. September is a “Rossi says” report.

        • Andrew Macleod

          He might have some people nodding their heads in the back now.

    • mattias

      Well a what to see small e-cat’s combined with Cyclone Power Technologies engines then we have lawn mower, small motorbikes and cars in an instant.

      • JamesA

        Cyclone Power Technologies – is a scam, five years and no product only NEWS ALERTS of “so-called” deals dating back years, see if you can find ONE Working Demo – does not exist.

        • georgehants

          JamesA, pleas give links to people who have taken out an court summons accusing these people of a scam.
          Thank you.

          • GreenWin
          • JamesA

            This youtube video means nothing – Cyclone Power Technologies – has been leading on investors for 5 years – with the phoney PRESS RELEASES, and China deals that never happen and delay after delay, year after year, please no more Press Releases Cyclone Power Technologies of Pompano Beach, Florida

          • GreenWin
          • Karl

            Very interesting. Certainly it looks pretty real to me. This type of solution was also used for early version cars 90 years ago before the petrol driven motors took over.

          • Admin, help! It doesn’t seem to be possible to place replies in the correct position – they are all just put at the bottom of the page without any indent.

          • admin

            There’s a limited number of levels that you can indent, I just increased it to 8 — hopefully that will help. The more indentations you allow, the skinnier the posts become.

          • GreenWin

            So… if I post on indents 7&8 for the next two weeks – I lose 30 pounds??? This blog is the best!

          • Sergio

            Maybe just push it to 10.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          POMPANO BEACH, FL, Jul 17, 2012 — Cyclone Power Technologies Inc. (OTCQB:CYPW), developer of the all-fuel, clean-tech Cyclone Engine, announced today that it has successfully completed the first major milestone under its engine development contract with the U.S. Army / Tank Command (TACOM), and its initial billing to TACOM of approximately $500,000 has been submitted and approved for payment.

          The Army / TACOM contract is valued at approximately $1.4 million, inclusive of this first payment. The program objective is to develop a Phase I prototype of a highly compact, lightweight 10kW power generator, driven by Cyclone’s power-dense, external combustion engine technology. The final product is expected to be compatible for use with multiple lines of combat vehicles either as a built-in auxiliary or dismountable and portable power unit. Cyclone anticipates completing this Phase I contract by June 2013, which may be followed by Phase II follow-on development and funding next year.

          ~~~~

          August 21, 2012 09:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time
          Aura Systems Joins Forces with Cyclone Power Technologies to Develop Renewable Power Generation

          EL SEGUNDO, Calif. & POMPANO BEACH, Fla.–(BUSINESS WIRE)–Aura Systems, Inc. (OTCBB: AUSI) and Cyclone Power Technologies, Inc. (OTCQB: CYPW) announced today that the two companies have formed a technology development alliance to combine the all-fuel Cyclone Engine with the AuraGen induction motor and control unit. The partners anticipate that the integrated renewable power generation system will be able to provide a turn-key distributed solution for customers looking to produce grid-tied or stand-alone electricity from renewable and waste resources.

          ~~~~

          P-10 Clear Cover

          The Phoenix-10 is a state-of-the-art generator system that is capable of utilizing waste oil products, such as used motor/equipment oil, to produce electricity for operational needs or for transfer to the power grid. Utilizing the award-winning, clean burning Cyclone WHE-25 External Combustion Engine, the P-10 generator system is designed to produce upwards of 10kW of electrical power.

          The P-10 is a combination of new and old technology. Other than the engine, which allows the genset to operate, the components are “off the shelf” items with UL ratings and a history of outstanding performance.

          The P-10 operation is straightforward. Waste (used) oil is pumped from a storage tank through filters to a small double wall holding container. From there, the oil is atomized through special nozzles in the combustion chamber (shown in red in the image to the left) and ignited. Stainless steel tubes containing the working fluid are coiled in the chamber. This fluid is super heated and then forced into the cylinders of the engine. This, in turn, produces mechanical energy by pushing the cylinders and turning a shaft leading to the electric motor. The rotation in the electric motor produces the electricity.

          Once the steam is expelled from the cylinders it travels to the radiator and then to the condensing reservoir. From there, it makes its way back to the combustion chamber to repeat the process. Our genset is a completely enclosed system.

          ~~~~

          POMPANO BEACH, FL–(Marketwire -06/04/12)- Cyclone Power Technologies Inc. (CYPW) (CYPW), developer of the all-fuel, clean-tech Cyclone Engine, announced today that it has fulfilled its contract with Raytheon Integrated Defense Systems (IDS), a business of Raytheon Company. The Company has delivered to Raytheon IDS two Cyclone MR-36 Engines which have been received and accepted by the customer.

          Harry Schoell, CEO of Cyclone, commented: “We’re happy to have completed this important contract for our customer, Raytheon IDS, within the budget and timeframe allotted. This is a major milestone we have achieved for Cyclone and its shareholders. We thank the strong team at Raytheon for the support they provided along the way, and hope to continue our work with them in the near future.”

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    August 30th, 2012 at 10:06 AM

    Dear Brian:
    The Journalists attending the conference will hear the report. The same report will be eventually published on the Journal Of Nuclear Physics and anybody will be allowed to reproduce it free in toto or in part: the Journal Of Nuclear Physics does not apply the Copyright on its publications.
    Regards,
    A.R.

    • Ged

      Bah, self publishing doesn’t count. Hopefully that’s not all that is planned; totally fine if it is in part. On the other hand, if it is a 3rd party report he’s talking about, as he previously has said he’d post up the validation report on JNP, then that’s totally fine; as then it’s just giving us access to a report. But for peer-reviewed science publications, JNP just won’t cut it.

      • Maybe Rossi is delusional?? Maybe he really does think his own blog is a legit place to publish the reports and validations?

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          The upcoming September report is supposed to be an industrial report from a commercial, third party entity, not a peer reviewed science paper by university professors.

        • georgehants

          edog, maybe more legitimate than the corrupt main-line journals that deny and censor many fair reports.
          One must not condemn indiscriminately but only when the Evidence of wrong doing is clear.

          • GreenWin

            I’m with george. The publisher’s name and title is far less important in the internet world. Legitimate information even on a blog – makes it no less legitimate. And consider the very small newspapers that have won Pulitzer Prizes even though they are dwarfed by mainstream giants. All it takes is integrity and the truth.

          • Fair call guys.
            As usual Im hoping for the best!

        • MJS

          If a peer review paper is going to come out then it many not appear in print for another year even if it’s submitted today.

          • Ron

            Lets keep in mind that peer reviews are for leading edge science and medical. While the reactions in the e-Cat certainly qualify as leading edge science, engineering development of products don’t require this avenue. Did the Wright brothers or Henry Ford or Steve Jobs wait for review before producing a product?

            These are two separate but interlinked issues. I stated quite a while back that I doubted Rossi would produce a consumer e-cat first. His goals are based on the development of the technology. As the temperature and stability improved he could see industrial uses which are easier and more profitable.

            I would like to see coal power plants retrofitted to use these reactors. Use in cars will probably not happen or at least be long delayed. I would guess the Plasma transition engine will be best for this application.

      • Claes

        In any event, this is not for a peer reviewed journal. It’s not a paper, it’s a technical report. If anything, there would be write-ups about it by science writers. I seriously doubt Rossi would take four weeks out of his time to write a paper, which in order to be publishable would have to disclose details about how it works, not just experimental data. He might do it later if he’s interested in the prestige… But now? Why? So nitpicking Ph.D students are satisfied? Why would he?

        • Ged

          Very true, Claes. For some reason, when I originally read that, I was thinking peer-review publication. Probably since that’s the sort of thing normally on my mind as part of my career.

          Just posting (hosting) up a technical report on the device is a completely different thing from a scientific paper, in that he can put it anywhere (the degree of its validation is not dependent on its publication location, unlike peer-reviewed journals), since it’s a self contained 3rd party document.

          I was being overly critical.

        • Miles

          For those that are Following LENR – Car Prototypes, i got the below information.
          Website: ecatcar.org/home.php

          “We expect to have a car prototype between end 2013 and mid 2014” – It a start.

          “Then for a car available on the market, probably not before 2020” – I hope they’re wrong. It should be sooner, well before 2020 !!!!

      • freethinker

        I completely agree. It is sad really, it is as if he dont grasp that such a forum, his own blog, by no means cut it. To present some white paper describing the tech may be one thing, but if he really want to have an impact – what makes nih lenr tick ala Rossi – he must aim higher. I have this, not so pleasant, feeling that we should not expect too much come 9th september.

        • Ged

          Best to assume that’s the case, while hoping its not.

  • Chris

    Errrr, for heating a closet?

    • Paul

      running a refrigerator or freezer.
      running a satellite.
      running a remote logging station.
      running a portable water purifier.
      The end uses are unlimited.

      • Chris

        Not quite.

        Don’t forget it’s thermal power, so not a great deal for many non thermal uses and hardly worth conversion, The fridge, perhaps, if well designed. Warming socks, or a steam iron, yeah OK.

      • Thinks4Self

        How about a 300W unit using 20% efficient thermalcouples injuction with a good lithium ion battery to power LED street lights. Charge all day and use the battery and the generated power to shine all night. All without a connection to the grid.

        • Chris

          Hmmm the way it currently works I don’t see it for that kind of application, not yet. It would need more attention as well as maintenance compared to PV. Plus how long would it take to pay off?

        • Thinks4Self

          Chris <- My whole idea is just a what if you had a compact reliable small heat source.

          At 300W I figure we are talking a reactor core the size of a 'C' battery. When you add rings of shielding and thermal couples with heat exchanger fins you'll end up with a disc about 200mm in dia. x 100mm thick. Fits easy on top of a light pole and is air cooled with no moving parts 'KISS Principle' in design. 300W spread over something that large is cool enough to handle with gloves. So maintenance is easy. You use you lift to go to the top. Unbolt the whole reactor and thermocouple assembly and bolt a refueled one in its place. The old one you take down to the truck and essentially drop it in a bucket of water to cool it down below reaction point. So easy a trained monkey can do it. The benefit is even after a weeks bad weather or in northern latitudes in the winter it still has enough juice to shine. PVs need grid tie in or have to reduce output to work in those zones.

          • Chris

            You’re forgetting the certifier’s requirements and I still don’t think unattended use will be recommended for some time.

  • skeptic

    So far, all E-cats have one thing in common: their existence and working has not been confirmed.
    Rossi keeps claiming things and introducing new models, and people are reacting as if these models are actually real, as if anyone can go to a shop and touch one.

    Have you yourself ever seen one E-cat?
    Do you know anyone who has seen one (besides Rossi)?

    • Allen McCloud

      Seen an ecat in person? No. Do I personally know someone who has seen one? No. Are these serious questions?

      • James McC

        Seen a nuke in person? No. Do I personally know someone who has seen on? No. Just a scam.

        • Ged

          My grandfather once sat on top of a nuclear bomb (for a B-52) while eating his lunch.

        • James Smithurst

          The effects of a nuclear bomb have been verified on numerous occasions so that their existence cannot be denied. In terms of Mr Rossi’s eCat, there are no truly independent tests to verify that his device actually works. Opposed to a nuclear bomb, where the inner-workings are public, the inner-workings of an eCat are not.

          In my humble view, I have gone from a hopeful follower of this technology to a denouncer and don’t believe that there is a proper functioning eCat, and as far as I am concerned, Mr Rossi will never produce one. This will be left up to other scientists, sometime in the future.

          Mr Rossi may have stumbled across something that does produce heat and is desperately trying to recreate the effects, similar to what Pons and Fleischmann tried to achieve, albeit with different technologies. Rossi is delaying us all trying to buy time to sort out (t)his technology. I don’t believe he is even close to commercialisation of an eCat.

          Sorry Mr Rossi…

    • Amazing insight, Skeptic – and to think that no-one here had managed to work that out.

      This is a forum for those who are prepared to conditionally accept the claims of Rossi and others in order to discuss possibilities. Contributors generally do not need the blazingly obvious pointed out to them and frankly your comment is entirely pointless.

      • James Smithurst

        Dear Peter,

        I don’t believe that this forum is or should only be for those who ‘conditionally accept the claims of Rossi…’

        This is an open forum and anyone can question the validity or logic or even the beliefs of those who follow the eCat story.

        Admin, do you agree?

    • Andrew Macleod

      You forgot to tell us that the sun comes up in the morning, or that water is wet.

    • Andrew Macleod

      Have you seen or touched the mars couriosity rover? A sheet of graphene? Gravity?

    • timycelyn

      And to paraphrase Basil Fawlty (showing my age again):

      “Today’s contestant on Mastermind is Skeptic. Subject: The Bleedin’ Obvious.”

    • Italo R.

      >Do you know anyone who has seen one (besides Rossi)?

      Yes, Cures (D. Fioravanti). Have you read cobraf.com about Cures?
      Try to read it. There was also the photo of the hot reactor

    • Chris

      Have you ever witnessed superconductivity at liquid helium temperatures? Have you ever witnessed it at liquid nitrogen temperatures? Do you personally know anyone who has? I witnessed it at liquid nitrogen temperatures, otherwise I shouldn’t believe it, I ought to say bullcrap because it isn’t quite 100% explained; the theory with Cooper pairs is somewhat dubious and would be sci-fi bullcrap if nobody had seen it happening. Besides, it came long after the first observation of superconductivity, which was back when even basic QM was still a weird novelty that sounded like bullcrap itself.

      Plenty of folks have witnessed LENR, including Ni-H, Rossi wasn’t the first to do it and already isn’t the last. I just ain’t one of them. While little is known about Domenico Fioravanti, his credentials can hardly be cross-checked (try it, he has a far more notorious namesake who adds to the military confidentiality issues) but there is no doubt about the identity of some other witnesses of Rossi’s e.cat and there were plenty of fine folks who saw Celani’s demo.

      You’re posting under the wrong name BTW, there’s a mighty difference between being a skeptic and being prejudiced.

    • Filip47

      Have you ever seen or touched your own brain.!?!?!!

  • GreenWin

    “Just like [Admiral] Rickover’s nuclear submarines jump started the nuclear power industry, conventional nuclear power in the U.S., this kind of forward operating [military] base technology could easily jump start commercialization of cold fusion. [Rossi’s customer] I believe it is a military organization, not U.S. – European, one of the NATO member companies.” Dr. Michael McKubre, SRI

    • Full circle! (Quite a few bloggers originally speculated that the buyer was NATO on the basis that the test engineer – Fioravanti – was Italian, together with someone’s hint that the buyer’s identity began with ‘N’.)

      • GreenWin

        Interesting though that SPAWAR sent an observer – whose recognition prompted the blackout we are now in.

    • Omega Z

      Yes, He mentions Rickover’s Nuclear Sub, Then It’s like he needs to redirect. Not U.S., Not European, But a NATO member. NATO, U.S., Not much difference. The U.S. is the glue that holds it together. Naples, Major U.S. Navel Base & I believe 6th Fleet base.

      Rossi says U.S. Customer, Military, Starts with “N”. This could all be taking place on a U.S./NATO Navel base in Italy.

      We also know that the U.S. Navy has been given a mandate to move away from Fossil Fuels. Addendum, Competitive or cheaper the present fuel costs. This rules out most everything but LENR.

      Note: Most/all U.S. bases in Europe are considered a part of NATO.