E-Cat World Interview with Aldo Proia

I am very pleased that Aldo Proia, CEO of Prometeon s.r.l, E-Cat licensee for Italy, has been willing to conduct an interview with E-Cat World. Below are my questions and his responses.

Can you tell me something about your background, and how you came to be involved in selling E-Cat systems?

I have not a technical background. At the beginning of my career, I was responsible for relations with the customers in the various companies I’ve worked for. In the last years, I worked exclusively in the energy sector. I’ve created, in Bologna, a company specialized in obtaining permits for 1 MW or larger photovoltaic systems and also in their construction. I had heard from friends about the E-Cat and the fact it had been presented in my hometown. After some months, when the PV sector had been strongly affected from the cuts to the incentives, I decided to contact Eng. Rossi and to present him some big investors that were my customers. So, we began to know each other and, later, I decided to run for a licensee.

 What kind of assistance have you had in checking to make sure that the E-Cat is indeed the revolutionary technology that Andrea Rossi claims?

We have used, since the beginning, qualified consultants, including engineers and physicists. Moreover, we had access to essential information through confidential channels, and we made very careful assessments before investing our money. We knew that the maximum COP of the apparatus – when led to extreme conditions which cannot be proposed commercially because unstable – was about 200, a tremendous value. This means that even if Rossi had missed a measure of energy in input or in output by a factor of 2, there would be no particular problems to ensure the customer the guaranteed COP 6.

Which E-Cat systems have you personally witnessed in operation? What is your personal assessment of the technology?

I often see the E-Cat running when I go to meet Rossi in his R&D laboratory. Usually, I saw the small version of the E-Cat unit working in self-sustained mode for hours or days, depending on the type of research they performed. On the computer screen it was possible to see the performance, looking at the temperature, the absorbed energy, and so on. Now, in the new laboratories of Rossi, I have seen more times the Hot Cat, which in the old labs worked in self-sustaining mode for several months without interruption. I find this type of running simply surprising, for its obvious implications on the COP.

What kind of demand do you see at the moment for E-Cat products in Italy? Do you see the demand changing over time?

In this first stage we try to keep the demand for this product at a low level to manage it in the best way. However, there are already several requests for information coming from industry, especially by large – and often well-known – companies and industrial groups or entrepreneurs used to invest in renewable energy or operating in the energy field. With the thermal E-Cat, industries can significantly cut down their energy bills, so in the future the demand will grow speeding up the process, already begun with renewables, of a distributed energy production at the expense of the old centralized model.

What kind of potential customers are showing interest in E-Cat products?

The customers interested in purchasing the “classical” E-Cat are especially companies using thermal energy, in the form of hot water or steam at low temperature (up to 120°C), for industrial applications h24 and for the major part of the year. The Hot Cat, which will provide an output up to 600°C at minimum, is very interesting for industries using high temperatures in their productions. The Hot Cat can also be used to produce electric power, so it is useful – potentially – for all big consumers of electricity. Thus, we have some companies interested in the thermal E-Cat for making an upgrade, later, to the Hot Cat.

How will you be able to meet the demand for products if there are a large amount of orders?

This is a problem of the producer, i.e. Leonardo Corporation, which have to plan the production strategies according to the market demand and also to the R&D and certification stage of its various products. It is obvious that, at a certain point, he will start a series production. However, I expect that the demand will grow rapidly after the first plants have been installed, even if they could not be public at first. A satisfied customer of a 1 MW thermal plant can easily order 10 MW or 100 MW some months later, saturating for a while the production capacity, so the first customers will have a decisive advantage.

How long does it currently take to build a 1 MW E-Cat plant?

We must distinguish the construction time from the delivery time. The first depends on the manufacturer and of course on the volume of orders, so you have to address this question to Rossi. Delivery time, instead, is also our responsibility and can be up to 4 months for a 1 MW plant. However, for Italy, this time may be even much shorter: it depends on the type of product ordered and its quantity. Obviously, the products which are still in the stage of research and development – like the Hot Cat and the electric E-Cat – can be only pre-ordered, so the customer cannot know since now their delivery time.

What is your assessment of the capabilities of Leonardo Corporation?

Rossi is working on the E-Cat with two groups of R&D. One is located in the USA, where Leonardo Corporation is based, but I do not know it directly. However, according to Rossi now there are about 63 people working on the E-Cat for Leonardo Corporation. The other group works here in Italy and I personally know some of the researchers involved in the development of this technology. People working on E-Cat are engineers, physicists, technicians, all making an extraordinary effort in developing commercial products in the shortest possible time: I see new exciting results almost every 2-3 month!

Has a 1 MW plant yet been shipped to one of your customers? If yes, when did that take place, If no, when do you estimate that will happen?

Although we have not yet online our web site, there are various negotiations with prominent Italian companies. Here, indeed, there is considerable interest from large companies listed on the stock exchange. Some of them are highly motivated to purchase a 1 MW plant to start a collaboration, but generally have decision times rather long. We are trying to select the most suitable company for the installation of the first plant, which of course will have the advantage of priority in the case of future orders. So, I think that in the course of next year we will have the first E-Cat shipped to a non military customer.

What are the biggest challenges you face in bringing the E-Cat into the marketplace?

The challenges are many and typical of a new technology that is also a potential game changer in the global energy landscape. Therefore, there is a resistance from some energy lobbies, although some of them are trying intelligently agreements or partnerships with us. The other challenge is to provide clear information assembling together the pieces of a puzzle very fascinating but otherwise complex for the layman. A big challenge is also the high minimum size of an industrial E-Cat – 1 MW – so not all companies can easily afford to buy a test facility before making major investments in this technology. But the biggest challenge in the short term, perhaps, is to have patience: a technological revolution requires time.

On your web site you have a countdown clock — what should we be expecting at 0:00 ?

The countdown you mentioned expires around the end of this month. At that time, we hope to have our full website online and officially begin operations. The site, indeed, will show all the information necessary for a potential customer to evaluate the technology, the product and the seller: from the updated datasheet to all the frequently asked questions on various general, technical and economic issues. We had hoped to complete the site already last month, but more than 2400 emails received, the not planned extra work and the many news provided by Rossi in recent weeks have shifted the appointment.

  • daniel maris

    Well – this all sounds v. interesting. We have heard a lot of it before, but it is encouraging to hear his statements. What we need now is some real evidence. Hopefully when the website is up and running some of that will start to come through e.g. if he has seen E cats operating for “hours and days” why not put them on a webcam?

    • Omega Z


      All of us would love to see definitive proof but looking from Rossi’s & Leonardo’s point at this time, That definitive proof could prove devastating. It could stir up a hornets nest.

      I suspect Rossi wants just enough attention to get/keep things going. Not so much it causes Major disruptions. At least not until their ready to handle it. And as Aldo Proia has indicated, Early customers probably don’t want to be known. I’ve posted about this before. If you have a working E-cat, it’s only a major advantage if your competition is not aware.

      We’re also aware that a couple of Rossi’s licensee seem a little bit shady, Others are very reputable. I think Aldo Proia has done his homework considering he’s had reputable people verify the details.

      But the most telling part is the large Number of Reputable Experts who have been involved with the E-cat & it’s testing. People who have Reputations & Professional positions at stake. Many with Prestigious Scientific awards. Even if their Silent are providing credibility. Note that several have went off to develop their own LENR projects. Even providing evidence that the LENR phenomena is real.

      Just to ADD that Rossi has delivered 2 1Mw E-cats to the Military.

  • daniel maris

    Good interview by the way! You sounded a bit more insistent with him than you are with Mr. Rossi. 🙂

  • Kim G. Patterson

    A one megabyte unit has yet to be built or sold. (except to military)



    • Redford

      Probably but let’s not forget M. Proia is speaking just for Italy. After all 1MW is all about heating and Italia isn’t the country where you’ll make the biggest saving. We know for a fact there are distributors in Germany, Switzerland, Australia etc, some apparently involved before Aldo Proia. If they did some sales, he wouldn’t mention them.

      • Peter_Roe

        HydroFusion was supposed to cover the UK (its getting quite cool here!). I wonder what’s happening with them? Their web site still promotes the e-cat, but the ‘News’ column appears on every page with its very negative recent post, which must put off any potential buyers. They need to either retract the post or withdraw and allow someone else to step in.

        It’s difficult to see why Rossi allows this situation to continue.


        • Omega Z


          The conflict is for the Hot Cat. Not the warm cat which I would assume they also checked.

          It’s a wait & see.

          • Peter_Roe

            Yes that’s so, but the negative post about hot cat is very likely to put off those who might be interested in the 1MW unit. It makes no sense at all from a marketing POV to have the comment visible on every page, so it must be assumed that they are not serious about promoting the latter, and are following some other agenda.

            If this is the case they are more of a liability than an asset, and Rossi needs to get rid of them ASAP and replace them with an organisation more like Prometeon srl.

          • Max S

            You are right. It is damaging and from marketing point of view a disaster.
            I wonder even more why does Rossi focus so much on the hot cat ? It makes no sense if he has a real product to sell. He should focus on the product he is actually selling to the market now.
            The distraction is not a good sign.
            The whole hot cat story should be kept internal and only published if it performs well, shortly before market introduction.
            That´s why I am still not convinced there is a 1MW e-cat for sale now.

          • Omega Z


            On the Other-hand If HydroFusion does a turn around after further testing of the Hot Cat & gets on Board, it would be a Big Time coup.

          • Peter_Roe

            What you say is true, Omega, but apparently nonsensical behaviour is always worrying. My doubts about Hydrofusion’s sincerity arise from the fact that even given their concerns about the hot cat (and we have no real information about the actual basis of any concerns), why publish that ‘news’ item at all? Doing so does not serve any commercial purpose, in fact quite the opposite. There is also the fact that that the post seems to have been deliberately timed to torpedo Rossi’s distributor bash.

            On the face of it, this is a situation that needs to be resolved, but Rossi seems unconcerned. As is so often the case I get the feeling that not all is as it seems here – games are being played.

  • Ash

    More ‘Rossi says’. Aldo Proia is a former sales guy with no tech experience who has clearly taken Rossi at his word.

    Its not credible that Leonardo has 63 employees in the USA and not one of them is listed on LinkedIn.

    • Joel C.

      Ash, will you just tone down on the negativity.

      It is easy for someone to look stupid when making any claim without a factual basis.

      • dsm

        But isn’t this the big problem regarding Rossi’s repeated & repeating claims ? – here we are almost 2 years later & no ‘validation’ by any 3rd party !.


        • Joel C.

          That’s the problem here.

          Some people here think Rossi should answer to them so he should provide whatever that is demanded of him to do so.

          He can chose to cancel the whole thing and vanish into thin air, not to be seen or heard again.

          What can you do about it?


          That’s as much influence you can only muster.

        • Casey

          Do you want to buy the 1MW E-Cat? If yes contact him at given address and prove you are capable to pay for it.

          Then he will give you information, you are asking about.
          He don’t have to tale you anything, just because you are curious about.

      • John

        Irony 1
        Joel C 0

        • Joel C.

          This is not a game to be scored.

          That kind of thinking is one of the reasons we’re having problems in the world that could have been avoided.

      • georgehants

        Andrea Rossi
        October 10th, 2012 at 9:09 AM
        Dear Charlie Sutherland:
        The Hot Cats will be sold only in assemblies for 1 MW of power.
        The s.s.m. is regulated by means of the control system. Dimensions will be communicated when we will have made it.
        Warm Regards,

    • freethinker

      You are mistaken. It is not Rossi being interviewed so it is not Rossi who says. Troll elsewhere,

      • Peter_Roe

        He does.

    • wolfgang gaerber

      They probably all are listed on LinkedIn – but no one is allowed or that stupid to promote his actual contract with Leonardo Corp.

      If I recall the “colonel fiovaranti” – mania – I would avoid to be listed in that context.

      • Max S

        Fabiani is listed in linkedin as Leonardo technical director, so obviously employees are allowed to put their association with Leonardo there. Proia and Holm have a linkedIn account, too.
        I would rather think that enthusiastic people would love to communicate that they work for such a great project that is going to chance the world. But nobody else is showing up there. Draw your own conclusions from this.

        • Ash

          The conclusion is that Leonardo likely has no employees in the US.

          Rossi used to call his condo in Miami their HQ and even filmed an interview there. I doubt he has any office or employees in the US at all.

          • Jim

            A + B + E = 341! Conclusion, I’m the smartest guy in the room! Or the neediest…

        • Omega Z


          The only names connected were an oversight. Many of those are no longer available. To much heat.

          If I worked for Rossi, I would in no way let it be known until it was well into the market. I don’t need any Nut Jobs threatening me or my family with bodily harm for inside info. That’s the Reality of life.

          You can Blow your horn latter, I was there.

  • John

    Not a bad interview actually. A while ago there was a link to an interview of another Rossi licensee, who said that they had ordered a set of business cards. That seemed to be the total sum of their investment that we knew about. I’m hoping that this licensee would have had a substantially increased their investment – maybe two sets of business cards?

  • captain

    Absolutely no taxpayers’ money involved, first and Italians are working in silence, second. Rossi’s teams have to wotk in peace.

    USPTO and UL, do U hear the sound of silence?

    Skepts and the like, this is not the right blog for U.

  • A laudably good interview, from both sides, against the background that the license holder is a different company than Leonardo, thus necessarily with partly different goals and partly different situational awareness. The answers are not hasty, but well thought out. After second reading I do not see contradictions in them.

    • georgehants

      Well done Frank.
      Many people on E-Cat World just keep searching for the Evidence.
      Far more professional here than on scientific sites where prejudgment is the norm.

  • Karl

    I agree it’s a good interview and a positive indication. We are all kind of restless to have the real deal officially seen in operation.

    As it appears, it would be easy the Rossi to quiet critics if and when he want. From this information I trust we have to believe that he will continue just to keep the interest of his public with the “information pot on an enough boiling level” – thus continue with the R&D and nailing down a product line reasonable quiet.

    There seem to be an obvious concentration on industrial customers and potential partners in this area and nothing about direct sales of home units to end users. Kind of disappointing for the ones of us that would like to put our fingers on such devices asap.

    However, I would think it is a good move strategically for the Leonardo business to establish cooperation with industrial partners. Such move would benefit the entire LENR movement (and all of us indirectly) as there are certainly many industrial players that could benefit and start to seriously go for it.

    • Omega Z


      I fully agree. And to much attention to early from the wrong people could open up a hornets nest. Best to go slow & easy until their ready to deal with it.

      It’s easy to imagine if we had an E-cat running in our home that our lives would be in turmoil for many months. The Media, the crowds, The people who aren’t allowed to see it working individually being upset. Possibly Threats from some demanding you give it to them to check it themselves. Total Nightmare.

      It would be similar to what happens to some people who win the Lottery.
      If it were me, I’d keep my mouth shut. Leave for someone else to admit having one first. Let them deal with it.

      • Peter_Roe

        The potential problems of a customer going public far outweigh any potential gains from publicity etc. I imagine that all potential future customers will demand secrecy, and it will only be as the result of a ‘leak’ or some very determined detective work that any early adopters will be ‘outed’.

        The situation may be different for ‘hot cat’ boilers when they have been developed, some years down the road, as first adopters will probably be large concerns with security arrangements that would deflect unwanted attentions. They may be quite keen to blow their own ‘green’ trumpets as well.

        • clovis

          Green trumpets, i like it,

        • Omega Z


          There is 1 customer that after having a few E-cats running a while that Could go public with little hassle.

          The Military. A Couple press conferences & that would be the end of it. Military Installations would be secure enough that no one would bother. However if it were a problem they could pull an Area 51. Put up Signs. Trust passers can be shot on site. LOL

          • Peter_Roe

            Omega, it wouldn’t be the first technology that has disappeared behind military secrecy. I can understand why any military organisation might want to keep such a thing to themselves, but it’s much harder to see any reason why they would want to draw attention to it.

            Of course, if CF technology is to be adopted widely by the military, it would not take very long for this to become common knowledge. It’s one thing to secretly test HAARP or Aurora but quite another to refit virtually every large ship, submarine, mobile generator, and field heater in your possession.

          • Omega Z

            Very true Peter.

            It wouldn’t be secret very long & then the MSM would have to do some kind of report. Even if to say it wasn’t safe for general use due to safety. Another delay…

        • Max S

          Peter, interesting thought “The potential problems of a customer going public far outweigh any potential gains from publicity …… all potential future customers will demand secrecy”
          Disagree. In the industry it is very common that the big companies proudly publish sustainablilty and ecology footprint reports and co2 reduction programs for marketing purpose. It has become a big fashion in the last years. Why would they not use the e-cat for same reason ? Corporate communication people would love to communicate such a story.
          Now, since the delivery of 1MW e-cats would skyrocket soon, as by your expectation, we certainly would see endorsements very soon. Fact is, so far there is not even one. Till then I would conclude there are no (or hardly any) ecats in the market. We shall see.

      • Stanny Demesmaker

        I wonder how much proof do people need to be convinced ?

        He stated that the e-cat was tested by professionals before signing a contract. That’s sufficient proof for me. The Swedish test also prooves that he let thirth parties test his e-cat.

        Only when it’s on a mainstream media outlet, people will believe that it’s real.

        • Tony76

          “the e-cat was tested by professionals”
          Then let e-catworld ask for a copy of the test report.
          So far there are only claims. The testing by AR’s own staff obviously does not count for much.
          Aldo Proia is one step removed from Rossi. A proper report by them would go a little further than the clownery of 2 years of claims and blogging.

          • Casey

            No body cares about you believe or not. The tests were done for peoples who might be interested in business to be involved.

            Many times Rossi said. He did not got his patent yet, so secrecy is very important to his business.
            Also HOT E-Cat is in R&D, not ready for sale yet.

          • Jim

            PLEASE! Make coherent posts!

          • Giuliano Bettini

            “Now, in the new laboratories of Rossi, I have seen more times the Hot Cat, which in the old labs worked in self-sustaining mode for several months without interruption.”
            It seems to me a great news, I find it strange to throw it there, “as if nothing had happened”.
            Admin, would be possible to have more info by Aldo Proia?
            Best Regards.

          • Sometime last spring Rossi told in several messages that a higher temperature reactor was running for more than a month, it was around the time of the Italian earthquake. If I remember correctly the temperature was higher than the classic E-cat (maybe it was 400 C) but less than the present HotCat (1050). Maybe Aldo Proia is referring to that device.

        • Andrew Macleod

          I have had many people say to me that it’s fake because if it was real they would have seen it on CNN! I laugh on the inside when I hear comments like this.

          • Josh

            Laugh all you want, but the statement isn’t that far off. If there was any reasonable form of product vaildation, this would be all over the news immediately. It would be the biggest story/scandal (after all, we knew it worked way back in the 80s) since [insert some big story here].

          • Omega Z

            CNN hasn’t gave them their Koolaid yet. There for it can’t exist.
            CNN has given them their Koolaid & it doesn’t exist.

        • John

          I just built a machine that makes ice cream from the atmosphere. Some professionals tested it and certified that it worked, then signed a contract. Is that enough proof for you?

          • Jim Johnson

            Send me a list of attendees for your conference in Zurich, and I’ll think about it.

  • georgehants

    The Most Expensive Irrational Optimism for Fusion Power
    October 9, 2012
    Yesterday Dr Francesco Romanelli, Leader of the European Fusion Development Agreement (EFDA) and the Joint European Torus (JET) Leader, delivered a summary of the JET results at the IAEA Fusion Energy Conference in San Diego.

    • daniel maris

      I think we get the message on hot fusion. What we’re looking for is some progress on validation of the E Cat. You seem rather unconcerned about that for some reason.

      • georgehants

        daniel, I think nobody is waiting optimistically for validation of the E-Cat or Cold Fusion’s commercial practicability more than I.
        I simply wait for Evidence and have no great desire to analyse every bit of information pro or con.
        I deal in Facts and Evidence not speculation or opinion.
        Franks interview for example is interesting and factual in that I believe it happened, but nothing from it proves the E-Cat to be genuine, just more circumstantial Evidence.
        While we wait I would rather be discussing, for example the proven failures of science, to hopefully put right a factually proven situation that could in future help our brilliant young scientists to not be crucified for talking the Truth, as was P&F and many others.

  • Auenland

    1. The licensee has no technical background and no education as engineer.
    2. No unit sold, although Rossi had claimed otherwise months ago and promised the customer would be made public.
    3. 63 people working for Leonardo US but has not visited the company.
    4. Shifting the timeframe even further: now 2013 for the 1MW units.
    5. On one hand the self-sustain-mode is unstable, in the next paragraph it is stated that the reactors are running 24/7 for months! As a technician i can only roll the eyes about such statements.
    6. First Rossi claimed the swedish COP-calculations for the hotcat were wrong. And now – what a surprise… – suddenly the licensee sees no problem at all,if Rossi would have measured the input power wrong, because of the huge headroom of the COP in SSM…
    To me this sounds like the licensee has not verified the SSM but only repeats what Rossi told him. Same with the company in USA. And Rossi managed it, that the licensees will be waiting patiently at least another year.

    Congratulations Eng. Rossi!
    A fully robotized plant in the USA, 60+ people, no cashflow, but delays of months and years are not a problem at all for this startup company. Every entrepreneur of the year should shamefully hide behind such a financing genius.

    • Barry

      “5. On one hand the self-sustain-mode is unstable, in the next paragraph it is stated that the reactors are running 24/7 for months! As a technician i can only roll the eyes about such statements.”

      Maybe Auenland, you should try to be a little more objective. AP said,”We knew that the maximum COP of the apparatus – when led to extreme conditions which cannot be proposed commercially because unstable – was about 200, a tremendous value.”

      Unstable at “200 COP”. We’re all trying to find out what is and isn’t true. Please don’t throw distortion into the process.

    • “2. No unit sold”. Correct: no unit sold in Italy. About other countries we don’t know, because that was not the question and because such question would anyway be out of scope for the local dealer.

    • Max S

      why do you say there is no cash flow ?
      See, there are biotech companies who don´t have any product sales for many years and they survive.
      How this works ? Simple : even if there is no product sales, Rossi has collected a few millions from licences. If he really employs 60+ people (I would doubt that as well) it would cost him roughly 6-8 mio $ per year, plus lab and manufacturing one time capex of a few millions. Then the investors generate cash flow from financing. See the hydrofusion drama what scale of numbers we are talking about.
      Even without a product he can have a positive cash flow for years.
      But the question is how long. At one point in time he has to deliver…

      • Omega Z

        Max S

        Those License fees are held in escrow until a product is deliverable & confirmed working.

        Rossi has sold all his license of about 12 to 15 total in the range of 200K each. By Your Own Calculations this would not come close to covering his costs.

        Rossi’s own financial resources were near depleted when he gave the October 2011 Demo.

        The Trust Bought into the Leonardo Corp shortly there after. Also 1 E-cat was sold to the Military customer. A second has also been delivered. A dozen more to follow.

        This is where the funding is coming from at this time. These Limited sales & the Trust.

        Prior to this the Funding came from selling out of partnerships that were very lucrative. So for Rossi, the E-cat wasn’t about the money. He Had millions in assets to start with.

        He was a founding partner in at least (6) different Corporations up until 3 or 4 years ago.

        One of those was Leonardo Technologies Inc. Not the Leonardo Corp he is presently CEO of today. A little research shows that this Corporation has 10’s of millions in U.S. Government & U.S. Military contracts annually among Millions in contracts with an array of Big Corporations Nationally & Internationally, But primarily in North & South America.

        This is but 1 of the Corporations he was a founder in. http://www.lti-global.com

        With enough research & backtracking of names & their connections you get a totally new picture of Rossi & just how connected he is. It’s easy to see that had Rossi never bothered with developing the E-cat he would be very well off.

        Had you or I approached NASA, DOD, or the NAVY with such a project, we would never have gotten in the Door. Yet Rossi’s had consultations & Conferences with all them. He is very well connected. Several of his past Partners hold titles &/or are major consultants of these organizations.

        Many of his Connections are what I call the Foot Soldiers of TPTB. The People who actually make things happen. Without which TPTB couldn’t get anything done.

        • Max S

          “for Rossi, the E-cat wasn’t about the money”
          Do you really believe this ? Of course it is for the money. Otherwise Rossi would be more open and cooperate with best-in-class scientists. If it´s not for the money, why does he not go open-source ?
          The hydrofusion story was about 60 mio $ investment, not peanuts money like 200k.
          The licencee makes 300k profit for every unit sold !
          Why would somebody give away licences for whole market so cheaply for 200k ? Let me guess, perhaps for higher prices per licence real evidence would be requested by the licencees ? (as we saw in case of hydrofusion)

          • Omega Z

            Contrary to what most believe, Open Source would drastically slow down to market development. Big Business would need changes that could provide for IP. Years of additional research to accomplish this.

            Note That the others building the anthanor, Hydrobetatron & Nanor & what ever. These are proof of concept open source projects. Not Products. Additional research by these people will lead to IP for market. Without IP’s they can’t attain funding of any serious nature. Even Universities file IP patents & if you want to use it for a product you will pay a licensing fee to the Government or University. It is not Free.

            It was Actually 65 Million Krona. Approximately $10 Million USD. That was for an Actual investment into Leonardo Corp. They already have a License to sell E-cats. Big Difference.

            Hydro still promotes the Warm 1Mw E-cat. The Hot Cat is what the dispute was about.

            More about open source. You would only be able to build it for yourself. The Second you sold one or gave it to someone you’ve committed a crime. Even for your own use you risk liability. Anyone that’s harmed or any inadvertent damage you are Liable. You personnel Insurance would be worth diddly.

            Should problems arise, the people who pay you a visit have Zero sense of Humor. Even when you’ve crossed all the T’s & dotted all the I’s. Been there. Done that.

          • Barry

            Peter Hagelstein told me, regarding Rossi, it isn’t about the money because Rossi could have made a lot of money without going through all the trouble.

    • Joel C.

      Then what?

      Withdraw your investment?

      Oh, wait, you didn’t invest.

      • Auenland

        Judging as individual investor in the junior mining sector and looking at the economical aspects and how Rossi runs this “company”, it doesn’t really make the impression of a company that pushes a product for market penetration.
        And things seem even more strange, if i imagine this company with this CEO has the most precious marketable product and they are acting ow they are acting.
        No serious investor would put his money in a company, only because of promises.
        And if you read the interview carfully, you will maybe recognize that the licensee does rely heavily on what was told to him and not what was proven to him.
        The licensee additionally comes from the sellside, not the investing side.

    • georgehants

      Auenland, it would seem that Hot Fusion has everyone of the things you mention in droves.
      Here we are 60 years later waiting for the first little hint of excess energy.
      Would it be a good idea to give Rossi et al a little more time and turn your critical attention to a real, proven scientific Golden Goose or maybe White Elephant, that’s only purpose seems to be to keep thousands of “scientists” and billions of dollars away from true proven breakthroughs such as Cold Fusion

    • Casey

      If you have fireplace and pile of wood stored in back yard.
      So what you do?.
      You start fire and from time to time you add some more wood.
      You supply your own energy to bring more fuel to kip the fire on.

      But if you start fire under your stored wood, it will all burn in short time and your home too, if the firemen don’t come in time.

      • Auenland

        I’m judging it more from the investment side. If Rossi hasn’t lied, the CAPEX for the factory must be huge.

        And the factory was meant for the domestic unit.

        Now count 1+1 together, that the domestic unit is no longer a topic and suddenly it only depends on the “certification” and Rossi is no longer interested to get the certification done ASAP?

        Now he says, that first enough experience with the 1 MW units must be collected.

        Do you really believe, there is a CEO in this world, who invests millions of venture capital in a production facility and afterwards recognizes, that it will take years for the certification?
        Do you really believe that professional investing works that way?

        FIRST you have a product, a decent timeframe for all legal issues and then you invest the money.

        If this story about the factory does not ring your alarm bell, then maybe you should ask Rossi for investing opportunities… 😀

        • Omega Z


          PARC Venture Capitol invested in JTEC Thermal Electric device better then 6 years ago & still doesn’t have a market product & will likely be 4 to 6 years more before they do.

          So yes, they do long term Risk Investments. They Also have a tendency to try & get the Upper-hand on IP Patents. If not very careful & Inventor can find himself out in the cold when all is done. The VC may end up with the IP in their name.

    • Peter_Roe

      “4. Shifting the timeframe even further: now 2013 for the 1MW units.” and “…the licensees will be waiting patiently at least another year.”

      Proia actually said: “I think that in the course of next year we will have the first E-Cat shipped to a non military customer.” This means some time in the coming months, not “at least another year”. The half truths and distortions you continually resort to are the hallmark of someone who is only interested in spreading disinformation – in short, a shill.

      • Auenland

        “in the course of next year” for me means some time in 2013.
        I find it fascinating, how the thinking of most believers is turned upside down:
        As an investor i must be sceptical. The other side has to convince me. This is also the scientific approach of falsification btw.

        Now how long have you been waiting for the e-cat? How many broken promises of Rossi have there been? And you still believe everything. Why? Because you a the type of person who believes what he WANTS to become true.

        After so many broken dates and promises you are still not capable to read between the lines and extract the information given to you in a more objective way.

        There is a “fully robotized” production facility waiting for the domestic e-cats! Standing still factories are producing enourmous costs. Not even the licensee knows when they will sell the next 1MW unit to a customer. And you are not recognizing, that things do not really sound convincing economically and do not fit together for a startup with huge investments?

        It’s less a question if someone believes in the e-cat, it’s a question if someone recognizes that the presented stories do not fit together.

        • Omega Z

          As an Investor you probably miss the boat launching most of the time.

          If you read the lines instead of between the lines all the time you would know that a plant has been prepped, but no robots are setup. Only Identified as probable. Actual delivery of Bots will depend on which will actually be needed which will only be determined after UL Certification. At present requirements are do to changes. When UL certified it will only take 3 to 4 months to complete setup for production. Without the pre-prep work for a plant it could take 1 to 2 years.

          But then, If your a from the ground up investor you would know that, The Red Tape can take 12 to 24 months before a spade turns over the first shovel of dirt.

        • Barry

          In my own search for what is and what is not true, there are certain voices I disregard. Yours is one of them Auenland. You seemed determined to pick apart Rossi with distortion. I ask myself why. The tone of your opinions are louder than your argument. It suggests you are a negative critic that wants Rossi to fail and you seem determined to convince others that he is a failure. Why is that?
          I’m not certain of many things. Open minded skeptics chalange and help me in the process, but if you are trying to distort the minds of the uninformed, you’re on the wrong site.

  • Ivan_Cev

    “I have seen more times the Hot Cat, which in the old labs worked in self-sustaining mode for several months without interruption.”

    The hot cat is just a recent development! and He has seen it running for several months in self sustaining mode!

    A really incredible story.

    • Omega Z

      The Hot Cat stability break thru happened back in March 2012. Not so new & has been evolving since.

  • georgehants

    Just interesting for those of us who are aware of the scientific conspiracy to hide Cold Fusion.
    Wladimir Guglinski
    October 10th, 2012 at 5:40 AM

    • John

      Umm, what conspiracy. I’m a skeptic. Just like Fox Mulder, I want to believe. But we need proof.

      Give us independent, repeatable proof. We’ve been waiting 22(ish) years.

  • clovis

    Hi, Frank.
    WOW, You nailed that interview, great questions,good job buddy.
    Heck, i thought it was wolf blitser poping them questions, smile.
    Aldo, seemed very believable, and quite capable of handling his part as a paying licensee, man” lots of info to digest, quite a nice assessment of how things are progressing along .
    I’m so full of hope for lenr to happen, i surly hope some greedy _sshole don’t mess it up for all the rest of us,
    and to the skeptic’s there is no need for you guys to try and save us from our self, we are capable of managing things .

  • Robyn

    I like the interview.

    Proia seems far more personable than Rossi, and that would make sense for their respective positions.

    As for the details, it’s exciting to read that the hot-cat runs in self sustaining mode. It’s not much other new information, but a nice look at the process.

    For me, LENR is convincing, and I have no problem giving benefit of the doubt to Rossi – it doesn’t cost me anything to take him at his word, nor does it particularly benefit him anything if I do or don’t.

    My main interest at present has to do with the statement Rossi made August 11:



    Today is October 10th, and for me the question is, was this a valid statement? I think he has backed off of it.


    • Omega Z

      Because of extended tests it will probably be toward the end of November.

      • Robyn

        Omega Z, thanks for the note. Can you point to where that might be indicated? I’m just trying to keep track and adjust my expectations-o-meter accordingly. I keep thinking that within 4 days (today being the 11th) we’re going to get a big report.

  • Visitor

    “What kind of assistance have you had in checking to make sure that the E-Cat is indeed the revolutionary technology that Andrea Rossi claims?”

    “We have used, since the beginning, qualified consultants, including engineers and physicists.”

    “Even if Rossi had missed a measure of energy in input or in output by a factor of 2, there would be no particular problems to ensure the customer the guaranteed COP 6”.

    If he has used qualified consultants, including engineers and physicists for validating Rossi’s claims, how can he even consider that the wrong measurments have the potential to be true?
    Wasn’t he supposed ignore the wrong measurements issue because of having his specialists’s accurate and reliable measurments?
    If he has used qualified consultants, including engineers and physicists for validating Rossi’s claims, wasn’t he supposed to address this issue by saying that his specialists have valitaed Rossi’s measurments and his claims are true?

    • Auenland


      • freethinker

        Old trolls never die.

        You do understand that the reference to factor 2 in possible wrong measurement was made in relation to COP=200. Ecats with COP 200 would not be something that licensees or customers would be allowed to measure on themselves as they would not constitute product, but R&D prototypes. If there were a mistake by Rossi in those measurements by a factor of two in both in and out, it would still make it plausible that a COP 6 could be achieved, hence it was OK for AP.

        So the three paragraphs you trolls have stacked on top of each other, does in no way contradict anything or hint any wrongdoing.

        Please, go troll elsewhere.

        • Omega Z


          Eliminate the instability & I’d much rather have that experimental hot cat then the 1 that Rossi proposes.

          With basic math, simple reasoning, poor heat to electric conversion & worst case measurements & 10 seconds to think about it would still indicate a minimum output greater then 25Kw Electric for every 1 Kw Electric fed in.

  • Roger Bird

    I am wondering if E-CatWorld sat down with this dude face to face, or if this was all done via email.

    Assuming that this interview was face-to-face, for me, this story just cut my skepticism of Rossi in 1/2. It is very difficult to keep a con going with more than one person.

    Are there other interviews like this with other Leonardo Corp. people?

    I am still stuck on being skeptical about Rossi per se. I have no problem with LENR and LENR-on-steroids.

    If this is all true, then the New Economic Order will happen before I die. (:->)

    • admin

      Hi Roger,

      This was via email — that’s how Aldo Proia does interviews.

      • Roger Bird

        So we are not even positive that this was real.

        Last night, while tossing and turning about Rossi, I realized that he may be scamming us simply to help keep LENR looking good, and Aldo Proia may be in on this charitable scam. Rossi may have gotten so far along on his business exaggerations that he may have realized that if he gets caught that it will make LENR look bad.

        Understand, I believe in LENR and LENR-on-steroids. So why should I be agnostic about Rossi? Because he keeps stringing us along with words and not deeds.

  • edog

    Francesco Celani responds to skeptics and answers a series of questions that have been asked in recent weeks to Celani by those who are skeptical about the validity of the measures of excess heat carried out on its reactor. Bit of real science going on here.. Take note Rossi.

    Dear Colleagues,

    Some people, in and out of our communities, showing STRONG CRITICISM to a report that I have shown to ICCF17 and 2 DEMOs required in Austin (National Instruments Week, 6-10 August 2012) and Daejeon (ICCF17, 13-17 August 2012) .

    * The key point of criticism is that the possibility that the slow decrease of hydrogen pressure and temperature fluctuations of the environment of experimentation can significantly influence (high, about 150 ° C) temperatures measured on the outside walls of the reactor in our glass, to the point cancel the excess heat said.
    Believe that the high, as expected, increasing temperature inside the reactor (due to the variation of the convective motions) may substantially towards the outside temperature of the reactor, from me assumed to behave as a black body.
    In other words, they believe that the thick walls (3mm) tube of borosilicate glass (Schott-Duran) can not behave like a black body in the temperature range of our interest (100-170 ° C outside, 160-240 ° C in ).

    * In particular:

    a) They showed serious doubts to the diagrams shown on pg. 33 and 38 of my report ( attached ) presented during ICCF17.

    b) They have considered the meaning of any (good) results shown on pg 29, 31.

    c) In addition, considered as mere coincidence the apparent effect of excess power is increasing due to the large decrease (up to 30%!) the ratio R / Ro Constantan submicron. Other examples were shown on pg. 38.

    * To shed light on these possible issues during the last week I decided (even behind the “strong” suggestion / recommendation / supervision of one of our external collaborators) to download the greatest extent possible, the special Constantan wire hydrogen .
    It was exactly the same wire in operation since July 10, 2012.
    From that date, the reactor has NEVER been opened.
    The download process is quite complex and required several days. We believe, based on the measurements of R / Ro, that some residual trace (ie at very low concentration) of hydrogen can be present in the crystal lattice of Constantan.

    * The measurements were as follows:

    a) The reactor was maintained without external thermal insulation in conditions as similar as possible to the DEMO held in the U.S. and Korea (and previously INFN-LNF, Italy).

    b) The applied power was, approximately, of 48W, as usual in these demo.

    c) The power was applied to the wire “active” (ie that of Constantan).

    d) The only difference was the gas: He (supposed inert) instead of Hydrogen (assumed active).
    Recall that the thermal conductivity of these gases are very similar to each other.

    e) We simulated, in a manner as close as possible to the real under H2 previous experiments, the behavior of the decrease in “spontaneous” of gas pressure (due to some loss of gas from our reactor, from the internal volume of only, approximately, 250cc) .
    Pressure drop from 6.3 to 4.3 bar, it takes about 60000s.
    Test carried out at night, no significant variation caused by the variation of the convective component to the heat loss because NO ONE was in the laboratory. Experiment # 1.

    f) We have maintained a constant pressure to 6.6 bar: studies of spontaneous variations of the ambient temperature, 1 full day of testing (ie day-night cycle). Experiment # 2.

    g) We have studied the effect of the slow change in pressure to regions of low pressure: 4.4 -> 2.8 bar. Again, night test, from 19:30 (Saturday) at 11AM (Sunday). Experiment # 3.


    e1) Experiment # 1.

    * Change in temperature: 23.2 -> 21.8;
    * Pressure drop: 6.3 -> 4.3 bar;
    * Power Input: 48.05W
    * Change internal temperature: 220 -> 233 ° C
    * Change the external temperature: 154 ° C + -0.5 ==> No detectable change.

    f1) Experiment # 2.

    * Change in temperature: 23 -> 21.6 -> 22.6. Day-Night-Day;
    * Pressure drop: 6.5 bar, almost CONSTANT
    * Power Input: 47.9W
    * Change internal temperature: 220 ° C + -1 ==> Stable
    * Change the external temperature: -0.5 ° C + 152 = No detectable change. Temperature difference, compared to Experiment # 1, because of a slight reduction of the power input.

    g1) Experiment # 3
    * Change in temperature: 22.9 -> 21.7 -> 22.5 ° C
    * Pressure drop: 4.5 -> 2.8bar
    * Power Input: 0.05W 47.95W +-
    * Change internal temperature: 235 -> 240 ° C
    * Change the external temperature: 154 ° C + -0.5 ° C

    COMMENTS and Conclusions.

    Since variations of the outside temperature in previous experiments with hydrogen have been in the order of 10 ° C, the effects of variations of pressure caused, regardless measured with helium gas, are almost irrelevant to the results obtained from our reactor and the specific Constantan sub-micrometer from June 6, 2012.

    * If there are errors in measurements, what always possible, somewhere, are not related to changes in pressure.

    * Only independent testing, adopting a “reactor” VERY DIFFERENT from ours, may pose a judgment / final decision on these intriguing results, very interesting in several respects.

    * In the coming days I shall undertake graphic design of the last three experiments, which I will send to all of you

    * Thank you for your time and your patience in reading this email so long.

    Francesco CELANI

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      Keep in mind that this is an English->Italian->English translation.

      • daniel maris

        Yep, I think I deduced that! – since I couldn’t really follow it. LOL

        Anyway, in the nature of these things, Celani seems a nice guy but no doubt the sceptics will come back with x.y.z as to why he is wrong. I do agree with Rossi that the only thing that will settle this is a marketable product being out there, used and approved of by its users.

    • Robert Mockan

      So Celani de-loaded hydrogen from the active wire, then pressurized the LENR cell with helium to check the calorimetry data. Seems reasonable.
      On another topic I have found that a nickel copper alloy called Monel 400 is much used in industry, and widely available as wire, screen, mesh, and so on. If Celani were to test that alloy for LENR activity after surface treatment, and it works, then one big problem has been removed for using the Celani catalyst in reactors. Monel 400 wire mesh can be purchased for $40 per square foot. That might seem to cost a lot, but depending on the mesh size that can be up to 100 grams of material. It is more available than Constantin, and costs less.
      From what Celani reports for power output even a square foot of Monel 400 wire mesh could supply hundreds of thermal watts, if it works, when treated for LENR activity.
      Perhaps he will start testing other alloys to find something less expensive than what he is using.

    • Robyn

      Really excellent post. Thanks.

      Celani certainly emphasizes that Cold Fusion development occurs in a hostile environment.

      As for Rossi, he doesn’t owe me anything, so I’m fine if he takes a different track. He seems pretty aware of a hostile environment as well.

    • Ged

      This is a beautiful control. Same wire, just helium atmosphere, no heat generation.

      As anyone with even a shred of thermaldynamic training would say, a pressure drop should -drop- temperature of the reactor all things being equal, never increase it (PV = nRT). So people trying to claim that the large excess of heat being made by the reactor was due to a pressure drop are simply off their rockers.

      Still, it’s awesome Celani went in and did the straight up experiments to leave no room for wondering. This helium control data greatly strengthens the hydrogen experimental data.

  • georgehants

    October 10th, 2012 at 2:52 PM
    Dear Andrea
    You published a little while ago the hotcat now has steam and pressure to produce electricity, when do you expect to start trials with turbines etc to make electricity?

    Andrea Rossi
    October 10th, 2012 at 5:31 PM
    Dear drew:
    as soon as possible, hopefully in 2013.
    Warm Reards,

  • georgehants

    Joseph Fine
    October 10th, 2012 at 2:58 PM
    Andrea Rossi,
    Does the power rating of a module (1 kW, 5 kW, 10 kW) affect the time of startup or shutdown? If smaller or lower power modules heat up faster than larger ones (or vice versa), it might be possible to ramp up or rampdown a startup or shutdown by sequencing the startup or shutdown of several modules in order to avoid major power jumps.
    Joseph Fine

    Andrea Rossi
    October 10th, 2012 at 5:28 PM
    Dear Dr Joseph Fine:
    no, it does not affect. We are close to present our 1 MW Hot cat, which will have a tremendous elasticity.
    I think that at Pordenone we will get some fun.
    Warm Regards,

  • georgehants

    From PESN
    A NASA First?
    Mark LeClair wrote:
    “I think this is the first time NASA has provided funds that endorse zero point energy and one of the few awards granted by NASA in the LENR field in general.”
    Discovery of Macrocationic Crystalline H2O Cavitation Reentrant Jets and their Role in Cavitation Zero Point Energy, Fusion, and the Origin of Life.

  • Tommy

    I wonder which customer would buy something for a large amount of money just by hearing promises. Every potential customer wants to read about a working technology, proven by scientists, before spending money.

    Investors in new technologies do not require the same proof. For an investor it will be enough to see that the idea generally works at laboratory-level. This is what Rossi has shown so far, but the results he showed were doubtful, they even left the possibility open that the COP was at 1 or below 1. If I was an investor, I would expect more before putting millions into it.

    And as a potential customer, I would not even show interest to buy the product without independent test-results.

    In case of the E-Cat or Hot-Cat we can not really talk about a “product” as Rossi is still in the stage to prove to scientists that the technology is working at all.
    As soon as this is accepted and confirmed by a group of internationally renowned researchers, it will automatically be reviewed by internationally renowned science-magazines, followed by press-reports worldwide and THEN, NOT EARLIER, there will be a chance that there will be “potential customers” and many investors to help bringing the product to the market.

    All I mentioned above has been the case for other inventions. Why should the E-Cat be the first to break this rule of how the market works and be sold before anybody confirms that the technology can reach the rumors of COP >= 6 ?


    • vbasic

      Companies with Multi Billions in assets who are interested in Green Technology would be interested. There is enough information and validation for the original 1MW with a COP of 6 even with its lower temperature for northern climate applications. Actually, in the past, there were plenty of products sold or investor money brought in while the prototypes were rough edged and not ready for mass markets. That will not be a deterrent in our energy hungry world.

      • Tommy

        Do you really think there is enough “information and validation of the 1MW with a COP of 6” ?

        If this was the case, the worldwide press would have reported about this new invention already. But all I read in renowned magazines about the ECat and Rossi – if there is a report at all – is that the E-Cat and Rossi are very doubtful.

        Reading this as a Multi Billion $ company would not really make me call up Rossi and buy a 1MW plant.

        • Peter_Roe

          Rossi has no interest in proving anything to establishment scientists, only in developing units that can be sold after appropriate acceptance tests and which will be covered by guarantees. Physics journals have no interest in publishing papers that mention cold fusion, or in having such papers reviewed. The mainstream press has no interest in publishing anything on ‘cold fusion’, regardless of the quality of the evidence. Perhaps you ought to spend a little time picking up the background on Rossi and the e-cat before commenting.

          • Steve B

            Peter, you really deserve the medal of Rossi´s most loyal supporter. But the point is : If there is solid evidence the scientific press will take it up. But this evidence is missing, and the messages given by the promoters are contradictory. Examples: for 2 years it was transmutation, but now no longer. For 2 years 30% copper conversion was claimed (but only 10% found an at normal isotope ratio !), and now Cu it is only a byproduct. Gamma rays was the main process, but hardly any gammas detected. Scientifically Rossi lost credibility, even among LENR fans. How serious can the scientic press take all of this ? You like to call it deliberate misdirection but the science community does not accept this argument.
            And the bar is higher than normal since people burnt their fingers 23 years ago. And for somebody with a history such as Rossi even higher.

          • Ged

            Anyone who does science (such as myself) will tell you information changes. Hypotheses get thrown out, modified, or new ones made as more data is discovered. This is a constant, ongoing process.

            Originally it was thought that nickel was being fused with hydrogen into copper to give the excess energy. But after thorough investigation, and as new theories of the process emerged, it was shown that wasn’t the case. That isn’t a bad thing! That is the progress of science.

            Gamma rays are part of the process, but the low energy KeV type; the type that doesn’t escape the reactor. So, gamma rays outside the reactor (since it is made of tungsten, which works practically as good as lead to shield gamma rays) are not detected, even if they play a role in heat generation inside the reactor according to current theory and measurements. Nothing unusual here.

            Rossi hasn’t lost credibility; his theories and data are evolving as they should be. If he held all his claims steady in the face of changing data -that- would be bad, and -that- would make him lose credibility. But like any engineer or scientist validly working on a subject, his views change in -alignment with the data- as it develops. More data comes in, views get changed to incorporate it.

            This is how things should be done, and in fact it strengthens the validity of Rossi’s work; the opposite of what you try to claim.

            Edit: I’d also like to point out that Peter is not “Rossi’s most loyal supporter”. He’s questioned Rossi sharply, very sharply, at times. Peter follows along with the data we have as we get it, same as myself. His views seem to be based on that, and not a sense of loyalty, as far as I’ve ever observed.

          • timycelyn

            Ged, I’d like to add some words of wisdom, but I find you’ve said it all here far better than I could.

            So I’ll content myself with a mere +1.

          • Omega Z


          • Greg

            Timycelyn and Peter, well put! I’m not a scientist but understand the Geo-political ramification’s this process will have on the world and investors. The same investors that have monies in the food supplies and energy have a lot to lose by the new technology since they are vested in old, expensive technology that keeps there profits coming in, not to mention the governments that tax on it. Don’t think so? Look at the manipulation of the petroleum/electric markets.. General statements I know, for one, I pray it works for the future of our world.

    • Chris

      Rossi has been working with some good physicists and, in the first place, he followed up on scientific research results.

      This is what many companies do, introducing new technology. However, one should avoid confusing R&D with science. The difference is they aren’t always based on such controversial scientific topics.

      As for what customers want, forget all that “scientifically proven” marketing hype. What customers want is to see it working. They don’t want “to read about a working technology, proven by scientists” before buying; that’s just not how it works. They want it to have been checked by someone they can be sure isn’t conning them. If it’s worth their while, they actually do lift their arses off their chairs to go check it out; Proia says he has received so much interest it has delayed him in getting things up and running.

      What makes me suspicious at the moment in this interview, is the long times Proia talks about, when I’d expect them to be capable of quicker deliveries by now. Anyway, if it does work, industries will be buying it as soon as these folks are able to sell it to them. They don’t care so much about academic standards and the controversy being resolved. It will indeed be resolved it people buy it and see how much annual cost it saves them.