Self Sustain Profile of Hot Cat

Andrea Rossi has made some interesting comments lately in response to questions regarding the self-sustain activity in the Hot Cat. Here are the Q & As

1) Is it true? 218 consecutive hours in ssm?
2) If not true, how long are the ssm event durations?
3) Does the Hot-Cat still require one hour power, one hour ssm segments?

1- 218 hours of ssm is true
2- the duration is regulated by the control system, are not regular, dependon many factors: can be 1 hour, 2 hours, or minutes
3- no, the Hot cat works differently

a. I therefore understand the total amount of time the Hot eCat spent in self-sustaining mode (SSM) was 218 hours?
b. The 218 hours consisted of a number of separate SSM periods, ranging in duration from minutes to hours?
c. During those SSM periods, no electricity was used to heat the Hot eCat, the electricity only supplied power to the control system?
d. During the SSM period, the surface temperature stayed within some range. Can you specifiy the temperature range while in SSM?

a. yes
b. yes
c. yes
d. 1030/1070 °C

Just as a reminder, the total length of time of this test was 336 hours, so during this test the hot cat was running in self-sustain mode for 65 % of the time. From what Rossi says here, during that time the temperature never dropped below 1030 C.

We may be getting a bit blasé here, but 218 hours is 9 days! To have a device the size of a medium sized telescope that can put out over 1000 C of heat for that long with no energy input (except some contolling mechanism) is remarkable. Of course, that that was not a consecutive nine days; it is interesting that Leonardo has developed a way to regulate the self sustain mechanism, so that is cycles on and off as needed, and that the cycling is not regular. Somehow they have ways to detect the activities of these mysterious reactions and are able to respond to them automatically.

Self sustain appears to be the real achievement of this latest hot cat design. Without it, the hot cat would still be a remarkable technology, but with ssm it moves it to a new level. One would expect that refining and perfecting the ability to control this ssm would be a priority now for Leonardo, in order to lead to greater and greater efficiencies.

  • Ben

    When can we see a Hot Cat?

    • jedslater

      I don’t that is the right question!! the question is WHEN can we see this apparatus in working function? I already know the answer: When AR is ready! My personal opinion is that a lot is going on behind the scene, and this “battle” we will only know about when it is over. Until then we are passive watchers and can do nothing.

      • Barry

        Well put jedslater.

        • clovis

          hi, guys.
          I think the answer is when 3rd party data is reported,
          Come on–3rd party, replicators the world is waiting, to have our ppm party,-smile, I just hope the bad guys don’t get too them first.

      • clovis

        Hi, everyone,
        The 3rd party replicators, are the pivot point, the whole world is setting on the edge of our seat, waiting,and waiting,and waiting,
        Come on guys who ever you are,– GET ER DONE,— SMILE.

        • Ged

          We academics are notoriously slow because we are so thorough. It’ll be there soon!

        • LilyLover

          Sadly my experience forces me to call 0.1% people as whole world?
          Us-true; rest- don’t care.

      • telecommuter

        A lot going on behind the scenes?

        You mean Rossi can produce right now commercially viable units but something is keeping him from doing that?

        If so, what is all the presentations and data about? I.e., why bother with them?

    • Ged

      If we’d gone to that conference we would have :<

  • Mark

    A lot of talk suggests SSM is a good thing, I would think that SSM is a bad thing.

    If a commercial unit reaches SSM then any loss of cooling will lead to failure of the E-CAT (core full of molten Nickel). It may be that the reaction can be controlled by removal of the Hydrogen source but no information currently given suggests this is a viable option.

    I would think investigation of SSM in the lab is valid primarily to know how to avoid this situation although the closer you can get to SSM without achieving it the better you COP will be. The only time I would think SSM is usable would be when the E-CAT is idling (at temperature but not producing usable heat, Heat generated = heat lost, home heating system) although even then it could be dangerous for the reliability of the unit.

    • andreiko

      The H2 pressure is de sleutel voor stabiliteit en is volautomatisch regelbaar door eenvoudig mechanisch instrument zodat het smelten van de kern uitgesloten kan worden.Het lijkt ook mogelijk de temperatuur van de HOT-CAT willekeurig te kunnen regelen doormiddel van dit mechanisme.

      PS/Text Netherlands.

      • Filip47

        Andreiko uw engels is echt onmogelijk, je moet er iets aan doen, men neemt u anders niet ernstig. Vertaling voor nederlands(de taal) is ‘dutch’. Probeer eens keer met ‘google translate’, of lukt dat niet? Ik vind trouwens dat uw opmerkingen een bijdrage leveren, spijtig dat ze niet altijd begrepen worden.
        Groeten,
        Filip.

        • alien70

          Hey all,

          Found on Rossi blog, did not see it posted yet, a lot of info!

          Enjoy!

          Adolf Schneider
          October 17th, 2012 at 7:52 AM

          Mr. Rossi

          We like to inform you that we have stored two links (english/german) with the schedule of the last E-Cat-convention in Zurich from Sept. 08/09, 2012. All the presentations can be downloaded via hyperlinks (underscored texts).

          The link to the english texts is: http://www.borderlands.de/Links/Kongress080912N-e.pdf
          The link to the german texts is: http://www.borderlands.de/Links/Kongress080912N.pdf

          Best wishes
          Adolf Schneider

          • barty

            That’s only the time table from the Zurich conference.
            Old and nothing new.

          • Well, the timetable-PDF contains links to the presentation slides. They haven’t been public before if I remember correctly.

    • Filip47

      Andreiko is implying that the Hotcat is simply regulated by the volume of H2 pressure.

      • Robert Mockan

        An interesting suggestion. If the hydrogen storage compound absorbs and releases hydrogen dependent on temperature maybe the electric power is being using to heat it in a cyclic manner to create a pressure cycle in the reactor? Perhaps cycling the H2 pressure also serves to flush out LENR “waste” products from the nuclear active regions, thus allowing them to start up again?

        Rossi needs to reveal more about what is happening inside his reactor. All we can do is guess without more information.

        • Peter_Roe

          I wonder if there are any compounds that would reversibly absorb hydrogen at higher temps, to provide negative feedback by limiting H2 pressure? The amount of metal hydride providing the H2 would need to be limited so that all available hydrogen had been liberated at the normal operating temperature, for this to work (if there are such chemicals).

        • One possible “thermostat” would be a mixture of two hydrogen compounds, A and B. Compound A releases its hydrogen if T>T1 and reabsorbs it if TT2 (where T2>T1) and releases it if T<T2. The end result is that hydrogen exists as gas only in the temperature range T1..T2. If TT2, it’s absorbed into compound B.

          While this is simple to write down, I’m not sure if there actually exists some compounds which absorbs hydrogen only above some characteristic (high) temperature, T2. Likely I’m not sure if the diffusion timescale of hydrogen in and out from the compounds and the nickel particles would be fast enough to make this kind of scheme feasible.

          Edit: Ah, Peter suggested the same.

          • andreiko

            NI powder + C powder I think.

          • Peter_Roe

            I think I remember reading somewhere that CO2 poisons the LENR reaction somehow – I may be wrong, its difficult to keep track.

          • andreiko

            No O2 in the reactor CO2 onpossible

          • Peter_Roe

            Of course – ‘senior moment’!

          • Peter_Roe

            I think you are probably right about the timescale factor, Pekka – not only the rate of release/absorption by the H2 donor compounds, but also rate of diffusion out of the nickel (I think that must be a very slow process or Celani’s ‘pre-loaded’ wire would not have worked).

          • andreiko

            think on surface difference ni powder or wire Celani

        • Ivan_cev

          I believe the e-cat is regulated by a calculator, pen, eraser and some paper.

          • Peter_Roe

            Ivan – you seem to be drifting back towards tro11-type comments. If you believe that, why are you still bothering to post here?

        • Rossi need the patents, so he is able to tell without losing future earnings.

          • PROOF?

            I thought Rossi claimed a couple months ago that by the middle of October, he GUARANTEED the release of a report with the names of third party scientists who have tested the E-cat. I decided to look into this now to see the names of those scientists. And as it turns out, NOTHING WAS RELEASED WITH THIRD PARTY VERIFICATION!

            I actually believe there must be something to LENR simply because there are other credible scientists who have reported on the reaction.

            Is it possible that Rossi is a kind of dupe set up by the energy companies to try to kill off any true enthusiasm for Cold Fusion research if he is revealed as a fraud? Or will he ever provide even a shred of third party evidence? How long can he continue NOT to provide third party evidence of actual scientists the press can talk with? IS THERE ANY UNIVERSITIES TESTING THE E-CAT?

            I’ll check back again in a few months and see if anything has developed. But I have a feeling I’ll just get another report from Leonardo Corp saying how great the latest experiment has gone for them.

    • Mario Marq

      i think SSM is a function of the heat removal potential.

      At room temperature with a single reactor in a static situation you get already SSM for a god portion of time.

      Cluster several close together and probably you get thermal runaway and molten zinc

      Blow cooled air directly on top of it it, and it never gets SSM

      So the best for efficiency IMO is having several close clustered together, but on a closed loop circuit with an exchanger (heat pump), that has a working fluid capable of absorving most of the excess heat of the potential “runaway condition”… so it might end up your have SSM most of the time, yet a COP that would correspond to a single reactor with temperatures much above 1050… but without melting…

  • Robert Mockan

    Peter Roe,

    your moderation problems are contagious. I just posted a comment, it appeared briefly, and then it disappeared. And I know there was nothing wrong with the comment.

    edit: hmm. It just reappeared. Is this my evil browser displaying the cache? Or is it real? Have to wait and see.

    • Moeter

      Herr Rossi, geben Sie es auf dem Markt, wir brauchen es – gestern. Hier in Deutschland zahlen wir 25 Cent pro KW / H für elektrische Energie, und es wird immer teurer. Viele Menschen können nicht mehr bezahlen und sind ohne Licht, warmes Wasser und Heizung .

      • Current NordPool electric power stock market price: 3.4 cent/kWh (http://www.nordpoolspot.com/). But the retail price is higher also here and is complicated because besides the electricity there is a separate base charge for maintaining the lines. (Which encourages people to use more energy, by the way.)

    • Peter_Roe

      Robert – I’ve has few comments disappear and not reappear. It seems that they went straight to the ‘spam bin’, and Admin reinstated them when I brought the problem up. Your temporary disappearing act seems to be something else entirely though. It could be some kind of cache problem as you suggest I suppose.

      BTW I’ve looked through both Firefox and Chrome browser settings but have not been able to find any setting that will ensure a fresh page load, so I suppose I’ll just have to keep wearing out the F5 key.

      • Jay

        Just lurking but ensuring a fresh load can be done by clearing your cache, ctrl+shift+delete works in both chrome and firefox. A reload (ie f5) of the page will then completely reload the page from the server.

        • Peter_Roe

          Thanks – does it last for more than one session though?

          • artefact

            For just one page I think you can press strg + f5 to reload without cache.

      • Babble

        Try Maxthon 3 browser. Each tab has an auto refresh setting if you want to use it.

        • Peter_Roe

          Thanks for the suggestion – I’m giving it a try.

    • Filip47

      It’s big brother:)

    • Thinksforself

      Try holding down the control key while clicking the refresh/reload icon at the top of the browser. This causes all Browsers to completely reload the page including the CSS, JavaScript and the image files.

  • ivan_cev

    How could you have an idea of when he e_cat will be ready for production?
    (supposing is real)
    You only have to see past production of any thing out of Rossi factories.
    Have any one bought or seen any other product developed by Rossi? Have it been successful or customer satisfaction high?
    Rossi is about 60 years old, so past products should be readily available.

    • Ivan_cev

      So one have seen any product out of Rossi factories.
      This will give you a real idea of what is happening.
      The emperor has no clothes.

      • The emperor is still in the shower. I’m sure he’ll be properly attired by time he arrives at the party.

        • Ivan_cev

          So you have information about products producced by Rossi?

  • GreenWin

    Good comments Frank. This does put the hot-cat SSM in a League of its own. Regardless of the total kWt, to have discovered an entirely new source of energy, have it run with zero input for extended time, and designed a control mechanism to seamlessly continue the reaction – is performance summa cum laude IMO.

    Increasing the total output is yet another challenge, as is direct conversion of thermal to electrical energy. In any event, provided third parties verify (academics please!) – there is a whole new world waiting to be unveiled. It is conscious, abundant, available to all… imagine.

    • Voodoo

      No, it is not available to all.

      It is not for common folks, even not for un-qualified companies.

      And this week not for even one.

      And within 2-3 months only for owners of jettisonable 1,3 mil. €

    • Anders Åberg

      If the power is taken out by radiation there will be temperature up to four dependens that can act as a selfregulating regulator.
      If the temperature goes up then the outpot power will increase rapidly and the Hot cat is cooled down until the will be a balance.

      Anders

  • For all you fellows that want to use the Ecat to fly a plane. If you connect the props directly to a small high RPM steam turbine such as the “Cyclone Power System’ which has about 28% efficiency you should be able to fly for ever with spare power left over.

    • Jarvis Cooper

      Manuel, Cyclone’s engine looks very interesting. All the Cyclone Engine needs is a heat source, the E-Cat would be a match made in heaven. Cyclone is going for the land speed record for steam car, I wonder what they are using for a heat source? I wonder if a Cyclone Engine powered car, with an E-Cat for it’s heat-source, and breaking the land speed record, would get the main stream media’s attention?

    • HHiram

      This is the specific engine you’re talking about:

      http://www.cyclonepower.com/whe.html

      WHE stands for Waste Heat Engine, and this particular model can run on heat as low as 500 degrees Fahrenheit.

    • Peter_Roe

      You would need to figure in the weight of a flash steam boiler and a condensing apparatus, but overall these items should be much lighter than any electrical drive system (which would probably need the same kit anyway, unless a 30% efficient TEG is invented). That’s certainly how it would need to be done for airship propulsion, with the waste heat from the condenser being used to heat the lift gas.

      Edit: Moderated! Try as I might, I can’t see anything at all that might trigger the filter.