Rossi Says Working with U.S. University(ies)

Andrea Rossi now mentions that he is working with universities in both Europe and the USA. This, I believe, is the first time he has mentioned being involved with any American universities.

Q: Dear Mr Rossi,
Do have at this point in time any ongoing LENR research cooperations with any universities in US or in Europa?

A: Yes, both in the USA and in Europe.

Until now, the only institutions that Rossi has specifically been mentioned are Bologna (Italy) and Uppsala (Sweden). I don’t expect that Rossi will name any U.S. university at this point — I am sure the usual NDA-covered silence will be in place.

  • Luca Salvarani

    Great news! In Italy we have great scientists and researchers but our (Public) university and education system is a real mess: a fair comparison maybe can be the education system in the former URSS: clever people that can’t work at all! The proofs are two: our shock Pisa tests (at third world levels) and our enormous and long-time brain drain in favor of other merit countries such as UK, USA, Germany, Northern Europe that welcome our best minds and let them work! So the more the e-cat development will happen out of this country, the better!
    Here many people who have been following Rossi from the very beginning (es. Passerini) sometimes complain about how much Italy has lost on the e-cat (he specifically states in favor of the US) on the contrary I can’t be more happy: leaving Italy or other socialists defaulting countries like us means a better e-cat, earlier and cheaper… it’s the best for this technology, for all human people and also for us as italians (forcing the changes we need)!

    • Renzo

      I 100% agree with you Luca

    • David

      Italy is not a socialist defaulting country! BTW Berlusconi and his servants ruined Italy with their bunga-bunga dance.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Re: Italy

      A simplistic question from the US…..can’t you elect pro education/scientific reformers?

      • Luca Salvarani

        Absolutely not! There are many reasons… to be short:

        1) the very great majority of our people don’t even know this problem (Pisa tests data: I’m sure that at least 95% of our people don’t know what they are!) or many others such as the funding mechanism for scientific research or the career structure and related incentives in the public universities: they’re almost entirely based on tenure rather than results or scientific publications.. Italians worship public education no matter what (huge costs, great inefficiencies)… They don’t assess the education service but the education works (we have 1 public education worker for every 4 students… in the very era of e-learning)… so they want more and more public so called “works” in the education because in the real free market those people can’t absolutely find comparable (out of market) wages and work conditions (for example here a public employee can’t be fired, no matter his performance..). Based on their productivity (only on their merit) they would get far far less….
        2) The majority of our people are rent-seeking… this is sadly going to happen also in other merit countries such as the US… So the same rent-seeking great majority is’t prone to vote for reforms that enable the service but cut their opportunities… it simply makes sense! the same majority doesn’t understand that someone must pay the cost for their out of market opportunities (getting less than they deserve): they consider only the upside elements but not the bigger downside ones and the media and shools themselves spread these illusions…

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          You are correct, Luca. Socialism is a cancer. The entire world seems to be infected, including the USA. The only thing that seems to cure it, is collapse of the economy and then rebirth with the ensuing revolution. It’s happened in Russia and in just about every South American country.

          A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
          From bondage to spiritual faith;
          From spiritual faith to great courage;
          From courage to liberty;
          From liberty to abundance;
          From abundance to complacency;
          From complacency to apathy;
          From apathy to dependence;
          From dependence back into bondage.
          attributed to either Alexander Tytler or Alexis de Tocqueville

      • AB

        The catholic church has always had considerable influence in Italian politics and science doesn’t get as much respect or attention as elsewhere.

        • Chris

          The Catholic church has not been causing this effect here.

    • Chris

      Leave politics out of it.

      • Luca Salvarani

        To Chris

        1) Ok just skip my last comment but the main concept is right: our universities aren’t fit to develop this technology because of their governance and operative structure… and so I’m happy that the best minds, universities and corporations of the world will work on in with Rossi. Another prof of that are the several beautifull minds such as Celani, Focardi, De Ninno, Preparata, Del Giudice ecc… that our crony education system left behind, underfunded and on their own for years untill now… or the pressures that Bologna University has been facing only for dealing with Rossi…
        2) Anyway it’s not my fault that almost all our universities and scientific laboratories, high technology/defence corporations involved in this field (Enel, Finmeccanica, Ansaldo Nucleare among others), the all science/research funding process, the all regulation of the energy market and the very ownership of our main energy producers and infrastructure (Enel, Eni, Snam, Terna and many others at a more local level…) ecc…. are in the very politicians hands….

        • Chris

          1) Do you have a source about Unibo facing pressure? For the rest, the “crony” system you talk about isn’t due to what you imply it is. Research groups circumvent the public contest system in order to award opportunities to folks that the deem to be in line with them. In general, the system has changed much at the hands of a sequence of politicians; only the first was of the PSI which is a pseudosocialist party.

          2) One thing is to say these are highly government owned, another is to get into propaganda about it. We all know the shortcomings of many public employees, but I don’t see what it implies about the problems of research.

          By the time I graduated in physics here in Padova, I had already decided I wouldn’t even try for a Ph. D. but I don’t put the blame on political parties and it was much due to the fact I had chosen a theoretical orientation. Things are much less grim for the experimentals. I also think we still have some good research institutions here, especially if you count in our participation in CERN. I often hear about the “fuga di cervelli” but I don’t see it as the worst problem.

          In any case, it has little to do with Rossi; the only way he could truly help research would be to do what he will not do. So far, he only seeks for them to makes measurements on his black box to support his claims.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      But didn’t your Italian education system create, Celani, Focardi, De Ninno, Preparata, Del Giudice and many many more world class thinkers throughout the ages?

  • Gerrit

    USA could be Missouri University – SKINR institute

    Robert Duncan has given some optimistic comments on Rossi’s ecat in the past.

    But as long as we do not know WHAT the “ongoing research cooperation” really is, this info does not tell us anything. The “cooperation” could range from “talks initiated” to “validation in work”.

  • john E

    This, probably the most drawn-out story I have ever followed, will surely be the grandest end-around business strategy ever concocted if it ends up being true and successful.

    • Omega Z

      john E

      “This, probably the most drawn-out story I have ever followed,”

      Followed being the Key. This is pretty much the Norm. It’s just that Usually no one is paying attention.

      Most of us Follow now only because of the Repercussions of the LENR technology.

      It should be Noted that everyone else involved with LENR are also moving at a Snails pace. All the News we receive seems faster then Rossi, But it comes from Many different Groups. Most project a much Longer Time Line. Years.

      The Difference is Rossi allows us to follow along giving us bits & pieces of info. It’s fun & at the same time Frustrating. We need to keep in mind that Rossi’s proposed Time line can change. Unexpected problems & Delays Occur. All Normal for something of this nature.

      Need only to keep an Open mind. Only time will tell whether Rossi has as Claimed or Not. Having followed for a couple years now & seeing all the Credentialed people involved leads me to believe Rossi has what he says. Also of those involved, A few could be Mistaken, But there’s to many for them All to be Mistaken.

      Only Question I have is how far along he really is & when he will actually deliver. And the Big Question. Will it be Allowed by TPTB.

  • Jarvis Cooper

    In November of 2011 Rossi met with Massachusetts Senator Bruce Tarr and and representatives of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the University of Massachusetts and Northeastern University.

  • GreenWin

    Luca and Renzo allude to issues not confined to Italy. There is a worldwide tendency in academia to build and protect what Prof. Henry Bauer calls “knowledge monopolies.”

    Bauer, Dean Emeritus of Arts & Sciences and Professor Emeritus of Chemistry & Science Studies at Virginia Tech University writes:

    “Genuine science, the search for better understanding, has been hijacked by self-interest and vested interests and is now captive to knowledge monopolies and research cartels: A single theory exerts dogmatic control over grants, publications, jobs, promotions.”

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/bauer1.1.1.html

    A parallel breakthrough to LENR will be the expose of these knowledge monopolies in government, industry and academia. As we are seeing now, the only way LENR has had a chance to emerge is by avoiding the academic gauntlet of suppression.

    While Bauer’s views on AIDS are unorthodox, he points to many areas of science where non-consensus views result in excommunication. READ this essay as it points to the mere tip of the calamity in academia.

    • Karl

      Agree, but I would add the possibility to exchange ideas through Internet as well as a changing factor different from yesterday. Imagine the power of Internet 23 years ago. No wonder there are strong forces to control it.

      • GreenWin

        Good point Karl. In fact the path around the gauntlet has been pure commerce and the internet. The e-cat blogs and web sites have been instrumental in bringing LENR to a level of consciousness that has altered mainstream.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Everyone’s probably seen this informative video “Heavy Watergate- The War Against Cold Fusion” from the 1990s by now but I thought this would be a good place to put this link for newcomers who may not have seen it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB6DjR8zKMo

          • Andrew Macleod

            Ya I watched that one a while back. It’s actually kind of comical….

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah, it’s really corny. Here’s the earlier version that James Doohan (Scotty from Star Trek narrated). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8jR2N6TP_0

        • robyn wyrick

          This is mildly interesting, but not surprising.

          The thing that is most noteworthy to me has to do with Rossi’s clearly successful efforts to keep a lid on disclosures (as he said he would).

          For those weary of the “Rossi Says” nature of this, that’s fine with me.

          There are plenty of good stories coming out about the science of LENR. The one that most excites me is the Toyota story from earlier in the week. But however you stack it, I think we have bridged the credibility gap for LENR. Anybody who is still blithely dismissive just has a head in the sand now.

          The list of reputable institutions investing in cold fusion research is growing, and as others have noted, after the Royal Dutch Shell story last week, we are likely to see numerous major companies declaring that that have long been researching LENR.

          Now we don’t wait on what will be the proof, but on what will be the product.

          And that brings me back to Rossi, who has always seemed like an industrialist more than a scientist. He says he has a product for an (I believe) now proven science… excellent. Can’t hardly wait to see it.

          • Jarvis Cooper

            Well said, Robyn.

          • Lu

            Don’t worry–you’ll get plenty of opportunity to wait 🙂

          • GreenWin

            “…we are likely to see numerous major companies declaring that that have long been researching LENR.

            Robyn – one surprising discovery verifies your statement – in 1989 shortly after F&P, the AMOCO Research Dept. – a unit of British Petroleum conducted a cold fusion experiment, showing 30% excess heat:

            “The latest cold fusion experiment run at the Tulsa Research Center documented anomalous energy production, as measured through careful calorimetry, and produced enhanced levels of tritium, an indication that a nuclear process is involved in the experiment. Work is continuing to further understand the cold fusion mechanism.” http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Lautzenhiscoldfusion.pdf

            One might wonder why they and others – never announced or pursued these results.

    • Omega Z

      Knowledge is Power.

      All through history, you can see the suppression of knowledge.
      At times learning to read & write have been forbidden to the masses.
      Available only to TPTB.

      Note that Even among the Masses it was in practice.
      Craftsmen handing down their Trade secrets to the select few.
      Still in practice today.

      But over Time, all things leak out.
      Knowledge can never be suppressed indefinitely.

      Only Postponed, Delayed.

  • I hate to say it but I suffer from Rossi said syndrome.

    • Kim G. Patterson

      Is it not true that Andrea Rossi works for a Trust?

      I would expect that he has been throttled, and given
      weekly behavioral cues.

      Say this, but do not say that or this.

      I think Rossie has become a proxy.

      Respect
      Kim

      • Peter_Roe

        Yes, Rossi now has to respect the wishes of the board of trustees of Leonardo Corp, and those of his US ‘partner’. Possibly other parties are involved now as well.

        Collectively, these people may not be quite as enthusiastic about making public announcements as Rossi can be when he wants to tell the world of a success. His replies to questions on JONP have been vague and generalised for quite some time now, possibly indicating new constraints on what he is able to say.

    • Roger Bird

      I am in recovery from “Rossi said” syndrome, or RSS.

  • georgehants

    Said before but say again, what a pleasure it is to read comments on these pages, wide knowledge, Wonderful information and mostly optimistic delving into all Cold Fusion and related subjects.
    Compared to many so called science sites where it mostly seems to be a contest of who can write the most inane comments and anybody tying to fairly discuss points is buried under a pile of rubbish.
    The Internet is a powerful tool of progress but only if the sites are kept as clean as ECW, for which all credit must go to Admin for their time and research on topics.
    If Mr Rossi is genuine we have that great pleasure of knowing we have not denied and abused him as has happened many times in history to great names and discoveries.
    If he is not genuine I feel exactly the same way, not embarrassed but disappointed that he would have messed with such an important subject and I would try and protect the next scientist just the same, win or lose.
    But Cold Fusion in general marches forward step by step.
    Thanks everybody.

  • georgehants

    From Next Big Future
    Brad Arnold •
    “The physicist, Yasuhiro Iwamura, told the ANS audience that the Toyota researchers confirmed that nuclear changes from one element to another took place without the use of high-energy nuclear physics. Most scientists who have not followed this field closely consider such profound claims inconceivable.”
    It is too bad the present ossified state of US institutional politics, government, and science, because this is revolutionary and has national security, economic, and scientific implications. I’ve tried to approach the US House and Senate Science subcommittees, and take it from me it is a waste of time. The US Department of Energy can be safely put into the same boat. I guess the Japs will have to take the torch in this (and other) instance. Too bad, we are falling further and further behind.
    http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/12/lenr-transmutation-replication-and.html

    • Ryan

      Well, to be truthful how do you know that they aren’t putting on a public dog and pony show until they have absolute proof? If they start heralding LENR right now they will only get shouted down or demonized by groups that will take advantage of the situation to gain a foot up. If however they quietly back and help research and then publically reveal the technology when they can roll out a few thousand LENR generators that prove without doubt that they are right and that the benefit is immense then they are in a position where they can gain prestige and power. Are there going to be people that oppose it no matter what? Absolutely. There is too much money and power wrapped up into fossil fuels and fission to not expect that, especially given how much the US has tethered itself to fossil fuels economically. The advent of LENR will probably have some very negative short term effects on the US economy if we switch rapidly from fossil fuels to LENR (rapidly being even ten to twenty years). So, what I’m ulitmately saying is that there is likely a variety of opinions swirling around. There will certainly be establishment types that oppose it (whether they believe it to be fake or know it to be real). There will also likely be those that support it but can’t do so in a way that is obvious until such a time where they can roll out the tech and then state that they helped to support it (even if they went to the trouble to make it look like they didn’t know it existed before). Given that we don’t know all the things going on in the background it is usually a bad idea to make sweeping guesses at the motivations for everyone involved.

      • Omega Z

        Ryan

        While backtracking Rossi’s Connections I found instances where U.S. personnel have tried to Deep 6 Toyota Research among others. Some of the Same people tracking Rossi & All the Others.

        We do wonder what their motivation is. Most likely Damage control & Ultimately the Control of the Technology itself.

        In reference to Deep 6-ing, I’m talking about their research being Validated by other parties in different Countries, Yet the U.S. Labs saying No, Your Mistaken, Our Testing does not Confirm your results. You ALL must have had contaminated samples.

        This Results in another 2 years of redoing everything. Another delay. 1 Step forward, 2 Steps back.

        • Bruno

          The temperatures that Rossi claims to run the Hot Cat at and the COP he claims to have achieved are so high as to be outside of the realm of experimental error. Rossi claims to have a 600 deg(C) Hot Cat operating at a COP of 11. The veracity of this claim could be proved by third year mechanical engineering students at any decent university, even with a huge margin of error. It’s not rocket science. You measure the electricty going in and the mass flow and temperature change (assuming no phase change from liquid to steam) of what’s going out. You do it long enough to exclude the possibility of stored chemical energy. You weigh the apparatus before and after, just to ensure that he didn’t sneak in some chemicals that get consumed by the process.

          Most of the other LENR apparatus run at a fraction of a degree above ambient and with a low COP. With such small margins, it’s very easy for the experimental error to be larger than the actual results (ie noise exceeds signal). Not so with 600 deg(C) and a COP of 11. There would be no refuting the reality of a machine putting out gobs of hot water (ie below water’s boiling point so that we completely avoid any discussion of steam quality) for days on end.

          The fact that a validated test hasn’t happened, in spite of a multi-month’s old claim of having a working 600 deg(C) Hot Cat with a COP of 11, seems very suspicious.

  • roseland67

    Really?

    “Rossi said”, bfd

    I’m still waiting for “Rossi does”

    • PersonFromPorlock

      What Rossi does is ‘say’.

  • artefact

    MFMP:

    Celani’s cell did NOT vary with pressure!

    http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/171-celani-did-not-see-that-effect

    (+ Mails from Celani)

    • Ged

      Very important news. Also, the EU cell using borosilicate glass (same as Celani) is NOT showing the temperature changes that the US quartz glass cell saw with changing pressure. That control experiment is on going, and the EU cell is holding steady.

      Seems indeed that the MFMP group has made the important discovery in regards to the quartz glass (probably changing IR opacity in response to pressure). Can’t wait to see what the EU cell shows now that this problem is factored out.

      • Omega Z

        Ged

        I believe Celani had mentioned after the N.I. & Korean demo’s he was looking to use quartz glass for his next Prototype due to being able to handle higher temps.

        I believe this is why the U.S. MFMP group was having heat dissipation problems. Quartz is probably a better heat conductor/dissipator.
        They may need a whole different criteria to make it work up to expectations.

        I believe the purpose of using glass is so they can get a visual of whats happening. Using something like a Steel tube would require very expensive instruments to see whats happening inside.

        Point being, This is a poor mans setup which I guess is the purpose. Many can afford to replicate it instead of very few.

        • Martin

          Inside the tube there is nothing happening that can be seen by the eye. In my opinion, glas is used for overall transparency and damage control.

          • Omega Z

            Your right, I should have stated visual of whats happening OR not happening.

  • ecatmaniac

    Prof. George Kelly (University of New Hampshire – USA), from http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?page_id=2
    Knowing how Rossi can be interpreted I’ll include this university in his list.

  • georgehants

    From Vortex with thanks
    [Vo]:(Video) Iwamura presents LENR transmutations at Nov ANS
    pagnucco Sat, 08 Dec 2012 22:12:52 -0800
    (Video)
    2012 – Yasuhiro Iwamura Presentation at American Nuclear Society Meeting
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VefCEaLAkRw&feature=youtu.be

  • skeptic

    Been away for a while, but I notice Rossi is still here, demonstrated by the fact he’s making statements.

    It was Spring this year, when he postponed the first actual E-cat to Autumn.
    Well, it’s December now, that counts as the end of Autumn in my book.

    And I am sorry, but I could not locate the order-page on his website. Perhaps they’re all sold out.

    So, does anyone have an E-cat yet? Is it working all right? Have you shown it to a journalist yet?

    • dzejk

      I understand you completely.

      Engineer in me doubts that anyone on earth has working LENR device. Maybe one day someone will really discover something revolutionary like LENR, and I am sure he/she will share it with the rest of the world immediately and for free. It really makes you doubtfull if someone is ‘postponing’ a lounch of such technology due to last minute changes in bussines strategy, endless 3d party evaluations, full time blogging and teasing, tv shows, … 🙂

      But at the end, a tiny bit of me still hopes that LENR works.

    • Redford

      I am following this for a year and half now and I didn’t see the same chain of events. Rossi has been speaking in 2011 about availability of eCat in a time frame that would have already happen – true. But it’s been a while since he mentioned more & more delay, and in spring this year, the only thing he was announcing – just a personal guess, noting official, like all the release date presented to be “announced” and “commited to” – was a 1MW ECat to be sold and made available to public for this autumn. He updated on that and it’s now rather Q1-Q2 2013 – delayed, not hidden below the carpet.

      But it shall also be noted that he announced in the meantime very important things that did happen – not only the security certification for 1MW plants but more importantly 3rd party tests on hot cat. Published in December, those are signed by 3 names – 2 of them being independant testers, and confirm extraordinary results. This rapport is public and everyone who wants answer to question can read them somewhere on that site. OTOH skeptic who don’t even mention them and pretend that those two 3rd party experts don’t exist just prove a bias.

      You should have a chance to catch up soon otherwise : the updated 3rd party reports, with more 3rd party expert names revealed is imminent.

      At that point it’s fair to cast doubt on Rossi’s ability to industrialize anything (considering his past record). But I don’t see any strong skeptic theory being brought up : it generally starts by omitting element such as this report or Levi that can’t be easily explained by “Rossi being a fraud” theory.

    • GreenWin

      Someone once said, “Better to teach them to fish, than to give them a fish.” It is encouraging to see the wayward few up at dawn, trolling to earn their keep.