European Patent Granted for Francesco Piantelli's LENR Process

The European Patent office has granted a patent for the Francesco Piantelli’s invention of process for producing energy from a nickel-hydrogen reaction.

European Patent Office published the certificate on January 16th, 2013. All documents associated with this application can be found here.

Sergio Focardi, who assisted Andrea Rossi in the development of the E-Cat had worked with Piantelli in the study and development of LENR from nickel-hydrogen processes.

UPDATE:

Here is a link to the full text of the patent, hosted on Daniele Passerini’s site:

http://www.22passi.it/downloads/EP2368252B1[1].pdf

  • Piantelli being awarded his patent is a very significant event. Considering its content and broad base, I hope he considers taking the ARM approach to its IP rather than the APPLE.

    If he takes the ARM approach – and helps partners get from zero to hero in a short time, he will be very successful.

    • GreenWin

      Wonderful comment Bob. Thank you.

  • captain

    The CF-LENR speak italian and have a long story, started since 1989 just after F&P experiments. Italians followed a different way since the start.

    Positive results achievements of Piantelli first, with Focardi and then of Rossi with Focardi, indicate simply that the CF-LENR is absolutely real and working properly in producing energy in excess.

    So it appears clear that those achievements have been possible thru a complex (team)work of several italian scientists, and only some of them are Piantelli, Focardi, Rossi…

    Actual results are only the consequence of 23 years of continuous research and tests, though carried out separately and in different universities and national nuclear/physics centers.

    BTW, the Defkalion ‘Hyperion’ is nothing but a copy (it seems incomplete) of Rossi’s E-Cat.

    Piantelli/Focardi/Rossi are equally important for having created real working LENR devices, so i put a the transgoogled version of an italian wiki link, concerning Focardi, to better understand the story.

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fit.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSergio_Focardi%23Gli_studi_sulla_fusione_fredda_Nichel-Idrogeno_.28Ni-H.29&act=url

  • psi

    Yes, good news, and good luck to Professor Piantelli — and all the other pioneers!

  • Rossi & Focardi didn’t receive a 2012 Nobel prize (http://tinyurl.com/cx4fwv3)… Will it be Paintelli & Focardi for 2013?

    • Grek

      It generally takes many years between discovery and award of price.

      • Ivan Mohorovicic

        Also, the Nobel prize can’t be given posthumously. Focardi and Piantelli are both old and ill.

        • Michael

          wrong, at least Dag Hammarskjöld got his Nobel prize after his death.

          • Grek

            Since 1974 it was decided that the prize cannot be given posthumously.

          • Michael

            I found out that too….and that the author Erik Axel Karlfeldt also got the prize posthumously in 1931.

  • This very well written, logically consistent patent text was avaiable as application: WO 2010/058288 and is a model how to apply for a patent.
    It is in contrast with Andrea Rossi’s very unconvincing patent text; I have concluded long ago that Rossi does NOT want any patent, keeping his know how secret is more important for him. In a sense I have empathy for this
    As regarding Francesco Piantelli’s pioneering work and creative thinking, I invite you to my blog:

    A PIANTELLI TAXONOMY
    http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/08/piantelli-taxonomy_15.html

    THE SCIENTIFIC VALUES OF PROFESSOR PIANTELLI:
    http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/08/scientific-values-of-professor.html

    How does apply Prof. Piantelli the Rules of Galileo in practice
    http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/08/how-does-apply-prof-piantelli-rules-of.html

    Peter

    • Warthog

      Who are the co-inventors?? Looking quickly at some of the links, all I thus far see are “Piantelli, Silva, et al”. Who is Al?? Specifically, since Focardi worked with Piantelli, is he one of them??

      • Ivan Mohorovicic

        Silvia Piantelli is Piantelli’s daughter.

        Et al. means “Et alia” (from latin, “and others”), which is a common way in academic papers to collectively refer to other people/scientists in one’s research group.

        • Warthog

          “Et al. means “Et alia” (from latin, “and others”), which is a common way in academic papers to collectively refer to other people/scientists in one’s research group.”

          ‘Twas a joke, friend.

          PhD Chemist here…with quite a few patents and peer reviewed publications over my (thus far) forty-plus year career. Just got another patent allowed today, in fact.

          • Peter_Roe

            Without knowing anything about you, I’m not sure how Ivan (or anyone else) could be expected to know that your question was a ‘joke’. IMO he should be thanked for his polite and informative reply to a seemingly idi0tic question.

      • GreenWin

        I seem to recall Sergio Focardi listed on the original application as a co-inventor. Interesting, Andrea Rossi’s 10/15/2009 International Patent App (…Nickel and Hydrogen Exothermal Reactions) is cited during the Examination Procedure.

        A great achievement.

  • Gérard2013

    This is very good news. All workers in LENR are synchronized!

  • daniel maris

    Though not proof of anything, this is certainly a great credibility-boosting moment.

    • Gerrit

      It is clear proof of the fact that the patent offices have dropped their attitude of not accepting anything that smells like cold fusion.

      That fact is an indication and circumstantial evidence that a rethinking and repositioning is taking place.

      You can also recognize this rethinking in the fact that several colloquiums at scientific institutions and many scientific conferences on this topic are taking place.

      Many, many more indications point to the notion that we are seeing a true renaissance of the topic. Indeed renaissance in the sense of SKINR at the Universitiy of Missouri.

      Science journalists are picking up on the story, it is slowly starting to trickle through, the audience is getting bigger.

  • Chris the 2nd

    Patent doesn’t mean product, but this is a positive sign for the future of this future industry

  • Can anyone provide a link to a verifiable photo of Francesco Piantelli? Is the one at http://newenergytimes.com/v2/images/Piantelli-by-Dunn2.jpg the real Francesco?

    Or is this the real Francesco? http://cdn.coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/002_1.jpg

  • Grek

    I hope that it will not generate problems for Rossi’s ability to commercialize the ECat. It is conceivable that we will see a number of legal battles in the future over hydrogen – nickle reactions.

    I don’t like the patent system. I think that it generally is bad for innovation. It would be better if it would not exist. Instead inventers would have to try to keep the secret sauce secret. Just as Rossi is doing.

    • Jonas

      One can only hope it brings Rossi into an earlier commercialization of his domestic e-cats, but this is probably not likely. If Piantelli works fast, though, we could perhaps sooner have another device on the market. Fingers crossed.

    • HeS

      +1

      • clovis

        ++1

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      I don’t think it will delay commercialization, they will go for the money and argue about the split later. (:

  • Gordon Docherty

    This is the best possible news. In awarding a patent to an LENR invention, Europe has taken a bold and decisive step toward bringing this most important of research out into the light. Well done to Francesco Piantelli and to all those working in this amazing field and many thanks for working under such difficult conditions battling against entrenched dogma, oppression and suppression. You have proved yourselves to be true scientists and pioneers, keeping your minds open and your resolve firm – keep up the good work! Let us hope that others in positions of authority now show such “openness for the new” and “courage to face the future”…

  • georgehants

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
    Aldous Huxley

  • R101

    This is great news!

    I took a quick look through the application and think they (EPO) wouldn’t have understood most of it and just stamped a pass on it 🙂

    • Gordon Docherty

      Having also looked at the application, no-one can be in any doubt that what is being described is a class of low energy nuclear reaction (for example, read the “Druckexemplar” (or print copy) attached to the submission on 8/8/2012) – and the EPO are not in the habit of passing applications just because they have been submitted. You can rest assured that this application will have been through a rigorous and fair process…

    • Peter_Roe

      “just stamped a pass on it”

      That’ll be why 74 documents changed hands over a period of nearly three years then in the process of applying for this patent. Your ‘look through the application’ must have been very quick indeed – if you actually bothered to look at all.

      Your intention appears to be to attempt to minimise the importances this landmark development.

    • daniel maris

      R101 – That’s absurd. The EPO will have been as alive to the issues as is the US office.

      • R101

        I think you guys must’ve missed the smiley.

        Like I said, I think this is great news for the LENR front.

  • Owen

    This is great news. I suspect there’s a good amount of celebrating going on in Italy. Congrats to Piantelli and crew. The Nobel may be split three ways: Piantelli, Rossi, Focardi.

    We also have to thank the patent office for doing their job. You know they must have been under tremendous pressure.

    It’s funny how people have been talking lately about moving on to other things because there’s not much going on with CF. But actually the race is just heating up.

    • Andrew Olson

      They better give the Nobel to Pons and Fleischmann in my book.

      • Mannstein

        Nobel prizes are not given to folks who are deceased.

        • Warthog

          Pons is alive and well and living in France.

          • robyn wyrick

            Oh really?! Well so is Elvis.

            (Sorry, the side track seemed kind of funny, so I thought I’d pile on. Obviously Pons is still alive, and that’s a really important point. And obviously Elvis isn’t living in France. He lives in the UAE with Michael Jackson 😉

      • Hampus

        The Nobel price should be given to Pons, Piantelli and Focardi. All Rossi did was enhance the effect. If it turns out Rossi have made a completely new discovery in theory he might also get one.

        Rossi, Defkalion is keeping everything so secret, when we know what they really have found we can judge on them getting the Nobel price.

    • daniel maris

      That’s true – I bet there was some traffic from the US Patent Office.

    • AlainCo

      right, crazy how opinion seems aside the data…

      Things get more and ore serious from the professional side.
      True however that there is less chit-chat, and more underground work that make big noise above…

      funny to see how Defkalion let many people skeptical while they have the best profile of results, followed by Proia/Rossi, and with many challengers working hard.
      Funny to see how Brillouin is popular in US, while they only have unusable reactor proven, which need a hard redesign to be usable…

      funny to see people (me too!) looking after MFMP, while there are thousands better results from 89-99… with tritium, heat, he4, transmutation…

      we are not much more rational than the mainstream priest of science. just a little more rational.

      I’m lucky because my tech watch on lenr-forum.com make me feel the wind day after day…

      • georgehants

        Know how you feel, Regards George

        • clovis

          nope, sorry,
          F/P Rush to fame, got them no glory, they got caught with their paints down, as usual and they only saw a very small effect, and could not reproduce it. and of f/p, any good scientist would have not given up, but continued to find ways to work around, Dr,ROSSI AND FORCARDI, Were the ones that took all this good information and finished the job, thanks to their abilities and being of the right stuff, they succeeded and brought a produce to market.. end of story.

  • Owen

    Does anyone here know Piantelli’s plans to commercialize LENR?

    • Gerrit

      yes, with his company http://www.nichenergy.com/

      • LENR4you

        NICHENERGY
        Ni=Nickel C=Carbon H= Hydrogen Energy!
        Is Carbon in form of graphene the catalyser?

        • Peter_Roe

          Interesting thought. But wouldn’t carbon tend to reform as methane in a hydrogen atmosphere and at the temperatures involved? Or does graphene have different chemical properties? Perhaps the ‘C’ refers to ‘carbonate’ (potassium carbonate was mentioned by Defkalion as a co-catalyst in their system, and has previously featured in several LENR reactor designs).

        • Gerrit

          as far as I understood NICH is for Nichel the Italian word for Nickel.

          • Peter_Roe

            A boring explanation – but almost certainly correct!

  • kemo sabe

    Certainly an impressive achievement. Together with his 1999 patent, this should ensure Piantelli’s recognition as the father of light hydrogen LENR.

  • Zaghlool

    Well, I believe the hiding “Sergio Focardi” is the real father and the hero of nickel-hydrogen reaction and cold fusion generaly.

    • Ramsy

      I’m agree with you – This a good comment form Zaghlool – The first wise comment from Zaghlool I ever seen so far.

      • artefact

        well exept for the last part: “and cold fusion generaly”

      • clovis

        Hi, ya’ll
        Dr, focardi, was indeed a great part of this game changer, but Dr. Rossi was the leader examiner, and deserves all the rights.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Does this mean the EPO accepts that LENR reactor is creating excess heat?

  • Fibb

    I asked on JoNP if Rossi cared to comment on this important development (patent) and my post just disappeared. I tried twice. I think I’ve been flagged and no longer get the benefit of the doubt after yesterday’s evolution/revolution post there. It’s just a guess but I think my post remains hidden while it is waiting moderation. That or it’s just a glitch. Anybody else ever experience the same thing?

    • KD

      Fibb.
      Usually your post is visible for you to see it, until Rossi give you answer.
      If it disappear it mean, Rossi don’t want to answer to the question.

      • Fibb

        It disappeared immediately after I submitted it though.

        • georgehants

          From Twitter
          HELLO! >>> Dr. Edmund Storms, LENR updates, (12:30-2 PM EST). Listen @ http://www.thespaceshow.com . Call Dr. Storms @ 1-866-687-7223

          • clovis

            hi, buddy.

            i would like to ask why he can’t do with 50 million, that the fp/mp guys are doing on 7,000,— relly, and the fp/guys are only asking fot 500,000. hua,–redictuless

          • Veblin

            Dr. Edmund Storms, LENR interview on The Space Show.
            90 minute MP3 46.1MB
            http://archive.thespaceshow.com/shows/1932-BWB-2013-01-18.mp3

  • clovis

    HELLO EVERYONE,

    Haven’t heard Mr. Rossi ‘s response yet, but believes that (s_it) is just fixing to hit the fan, lol.

  • andre blum

    The things people do to make the news. Now Piantelli admits he used EPO.

    • Fibb

      a la Lance Armstrong?

    • Jorge

      Man, how I miss the like button now 🙂
      Now seriously, does this mean that the European Patent Office’s decision will influence the USPTO’s stance on cold fusion?
      Hope so.

      • NJT

        +++Good question…

      • Linda

        This is bad news! It means nobody can do anything that could infringe on this patent – it potentially locks up LENR for the next 20 YEARS unless of course you’ve got a few lazy millions laying around.

        The patent system has only ONE purpose, to protect vested interests against the threat of innovation!

        • LENR4you

          Without Patents there is no Innovation!

          • Linda

            Sorry, not true… We have never had software patents, yet there is more innovation in software than in any other part of the productive economy.

            In fact, if you really want to get down to it, the absolute greatest levels of innovation, bar none, are in the area of Open Source software development, where there isn’t even a profit motive!

            Everything we think we know about actual real-world economics is wrong, and is designed solely to perpetuate power and vested interest. Prosperity comes when human productive energies are liberated – slaves do not innovate, as a rule.

          • Linda

            Correction: technically, we do have software patents. My bad.

            But the principle that they inhibit innovation is even more true with software patents, which are some of the most frivolous filings you can imagine.

          • HeS

            +1

          • GP

            It is true, but it is kind of the only real example of the kind. To the risk of sounding inappropriate or worse, I think that it has to do with the mindset of people that have one main thing in common. They are all mathematic geniuses, and they do not see things from our point of view, if they did they could not possibly do what they do. Second and also very important they do not have to dipend on anything, or need financial backing to do what they do, so they do not get “contaminated” by it. Simplistic I know, but I believe not too far off the mark.

        • Andre Blum

          Correction, I believe that is 30 years in Europe.

          And no, it is not bad news. It is good news. Who cares, really, if it is Rossi or Piantelli who gets the patent. This is how the game works, and this is how the transition to this new clean form of energy all starts. Now.

          Piantelli will find a partner, or give out licenses, and we’ll be in business.

          • MK

            Its (up to) 20 years (here) in Europe.
            And , by the way: Patents protect the “intellectual property”, but they have an (intended!) side effect: They disclose the invention. This means the technology becomes known and other can try work arounds. This way innovation is accelerated. And a patent is only valid if someone “experienced in the art” is able to repeat it by the informations that are disclosed in the patent. So a patent keeping secrets can be destroyed at court.

          • Linda

            Sorry, this is quite possibly game over.

            Thinking of tinkering with LENR in your garage? Think again, unless you got a team of lawyers. If you infringe on that patent, you can expect to be sued.

            LENR can now be bought. The whole thing. Bought up, and shut down. If I were a Saudi Prince, why wouldn’t I just throw a few million at this new patent holder and buy it? What would I do with it? I’d frame it, most likely, and put it up on my wall as a conversation piece. I would boast to all of my oil baron buddies how narrowly we had come to losing everything, had I not had the good sense to see the danger and shut it down first. Guffaw guffaw.

            That may sound absurd, but what is to stop it? Patents make that possible. This is why that is very bad news.

          • AB

            I think you are being overly pessimistic.

            Piantelli has no intention of locking LENR away for the next few decades.

            I do think that a patent grant represents a step towards LENR being accepted as real, which is really the main obstacle in this whole story since P&F.

          • Linda

            I have no doubt Piantelli is a very good man. Let us hope so.

            Of course relying on the saintly character of men is no plan, and no way to run an economy.

            The fact remains that this patent now casts a long shadow over LENR.

          • georgehants
          • GreenWin

            When you read of projects like this you better grasp the irrational fear the creeps into the mind of the energy cartels. They must START new projects forthwith, immediately to try to secure funding over the next 10-20 years. Thus we see desperate attempts at building new nuke, PV, wind, geo, hydro, even coal-fired power plants.

            “When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on.”
            ― Abraham Lincoln

          • GP

            On the contrary I think that having a validation of the work of one of the fathers of cold fusion is very positive. I very much prefer this than a patent granted to Shell Renewable Energy, or even to Defkalion for that matters, simply because we can be sure that Piantelli will do everything to get the CF to the market with no delay, as this is the dream of a lifetime for him (and for us)and the coronation of 2 decades of perseverance and sure enough the epithome of all scientific revenges. In short he deserves it

          • Jonas

            No, you can tinker all you want in your garage, a patent only makes it easier to figure out. No one has the legal abilities to stop people building these things for themselves. But they aren’t allowed to sell it, though. So this makes open source easier, plus it has the advantage of it making the market sooner, now that he can go ahead and make the product.

          • NJT

            Patents are only as good as the patent holders financial ability to continually defend it.

            AND Jonas, just above, is correct…

          • Luis Mauro

            I’m no expert, but I recently finished an online course on intelectual property organized in partnership with the WIPO. As far as I understand, you shouldn’t be able to sit on a patent and prevent anyone else to explore the new technology. If you don’t explore the technology, or license it, and do not alow anyone else to explore it, you may loose the patent. There are legal mechanisms to do so, for example the possibility for compulsory licenses.

          • Peter_Roe

            “LENR can now be bought.”

            I have to agree that this is a very real possibility. At the very least, ownership of this patent could hamstring LENR development for a decade or more if it fell into the wrong hands. Nickel-hydrogen does seem to be a key combination, and the patent seems to cover most possible variations.

            If Piantelli doesn’t move to production and licensing fairly quickly, then full-on open sourcing may become the only way forward if we are to see cold fusion actually making any impact on our energy needs.

        • daniel maris

          It’s a good day for the lawyers but it won’t stop innovation.

        • Peter_Roe

          Piantelli’s patent is something of a ‘catch all’ in which a wide range of configurations and stimulus types are covered. Like the earlier Han Nee WIPO patent it seeks to claim a far wider area that he will have directly experimentally verified.

          I’m no patent expert, but I would have thought that this would leave the patent open to challenge by those who can demonstrate working devices that differ significantly from Piantelli’s specifications, or where his descriptions are too generic. However (as Linda says) this option will only be open to those with huge piles of dosh to throw at lawyers, so as far as smaller start-ups are concerned, this development could mark the end of their plans.

          This patent could well impinge on Rossi’s operations as the LT ecat-type technology seems to be effectively covered, and this would of course add a further impediment (as if it needed one) to the possible future release of domestic e-cat heaters or CHP units.

          As far as the ‘hot cat’ goes, this is probably a significantly different technology (tungsten substrate?) and is probably not covered (as yet!). Rossi’s partner may need to look at getting patent protection ASAP however, as it looks like Nichenergy may be hot on their heels.

    • Fibb

      Well my question to Rossi got vapourized but someone got it in.

      Andrea Rossi
      January 18th, 2013 at 12:57 PM

      Dear Ecco Liberation:
      Our attorneys will file suits to invalidate patents that have not ground to exist.
      We already are in action for this issue.
      No other comment, in the meantime.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

      Ecco Liberation
      January 18th, 2013 at 12:11 PM

      Hello Dr. Rossi,
      Could you comment on the news about the patent recently granted by EPO to one of your main competitors? Do you suspect there might have been “inside work” in the patent office to favor his work instead of yours, which has been filed earlier? But most of all, do you think this will somehow affect the introduction of your technology to the market?

      Ecco

      • Fibb

        The q and a above have been scrubbed from the JoNP

        • Andre Blum

          great catch. Thanks for posting here!
          It looks from Rossi’s answer that this patent is hurting him.

      • If the patent doesnt “have ground to exist.” whats the problem then 😀

        • Ged

          He means prior art (his previous applications). Not sure how that works in a First-to-File system like the EUs.

          • Peter_Roe

            Presumably the EPO patent, and the equivalent American one, will stand until challenged in court. If anything in Piantell’s claims applies to Rossi’s e-cat then technically I would think he and his partner could be stopped by court orders until such time as he successfully overturned Piantelli’s patents in the courts.

            Any young lawyers reading this should gear up as specialists in patent law and LENR – the gravy train will be departing shortly.

          • GreenWin

            Thanks to Iggy for this post early last year:

            “Documented evidence for thermal energy observation
            in nickel and hydrogen, in 1959.

            This excerpt from Journal of American Chemical
            Society, 81,5032 (1959). Research by R.J.Kokes,
            and P.H. Anderson. They were studying adsorption
            of hydrogen on Raney nickel and observed “strange
            feature of exothermic reaction”. Perhaps if they
            had done an elemental analysis or calorimetry
            analysis they would have found thermal energy
            generation in excess of any possible physical
            chemistry reaction ( that is, a nuclear
            reaction), but no one can fault them, in 1959, for
            not doing an elemental analysis of the nickel
            after the exothermic reactions. What they observed
            predated the Piantelli work by 30 years, and the
            Rossi catalyst by over 50 years.

  • GreenWin

    According to patent attorney David French, there were two prior Piantelli International Patent Apps, 2006 (with Focardi & Haber co-inventors), 2009 PCT (Patent Cooperation Treaty,) and this granted patent. This issued patent has been assigned to the following individuals: Silvia PIANTELLI, Alessandro MEIARINI, Leonardo CIAMPOLI, and Fabio CHELLINI, all of Italy.

    With the clear acceptance of Cold Fusion in the European Union there is now an official International Classification: G21B3 – physics, nuclear physics/nuclear engineering, fusion reactors, low-temperature nuclear fusion reactors… For future devices.

    A stunning achievement in so short a period of time – considering the consensus of mainstream physicists still think Cold Fusion / LENR “is impossible!” A great day. Congratulations to the many tireless scientists who have brought this about. It is a triumph for Cold Fusion, Piantelli, ICCF contributors, Rossi/Focardi and all who have believed this day would arrive.

    • Peter_Roe

      And congratulations to the scientists and administrators working in the EPO, for not following the unfortunate example of the USPTO.

  • georgehants
    • GreenWin

      Solar and PV “breakthroughs” can reasonably be used as a metric for LENR disruption. The more LENR is reckoned with, the faster the PV “breakthrough” appearances. This is a scramble to save the solar industry. Likewise with NG-CH4 finds.

      • Peter_Roe

        It does kinda look that way doesn’t it. Almost as if (in the case of PV) they had better technologies ‘in the pipeline’ all along, but were just trying to squeeze the most out of whatever they are currently producing before putting any money/effort into finalising and releasing the upgraded product.

        There seem to be many indications now that the energy industries are aware that things may change soon, and they need to be ready. That doesn’t mean to say though that other decisions may not be being made at higher levels. We should know within a couple of months roughly how things are going to pan out from here.

  • buffalo

    really intrigueing insofar as the efforts to get that patent is concerned.now heres the big question,why would someone go through all the efforts to get such a patent? Quite frightening

    • clovis

      hi, guy.
      My guess is, Dr. rossi is way ahead of this crew, but they and others are trying every way possible to find a chink in his armor, or the missing scale on the belly of smaug the drogon’s from lonly mountain.

  • Hugo

    This is not the first LENR patent ever issued. Not even by the EPO. What makes this special?

    • clovis

      hi, hugh,
      Probably that they would grant one to someone and not others,
      HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THE SUBJECT,

    • It is strange the US Patent office would grant NASA
      a patent just days before Rossi’s October 2011 test
      of the 1 MW plant while refusing Brillioun and others
      on the not very plauseable grounds that they do not
      believe LENR is possible.

      I do think the original patent system was to protect
      specific products design in the market from being copied
      and not to own a theory or idea.

      • georgehants

        From Vortex
        #11 Robert Greenyer 2013-01-18 14:25
        @All
        The EU cell had to be taken off line at short notice to be taken to a
        big european consortium for preliminary discussion about it. If they
        are not time wasters, we will ask them to sign an MFMP Full Disclosure
        Agreement (FDA) as soon as possible.
        So it has not been on line for a few days. Normal programming will
        resume shortly. Currently we are trying to track down Nicholas as we
        have not heard from him (except an unqualified request to urgently
        order more glass tubes) since he left for the meeting
        ——————
        Harry

        • daniel maris

          Hmmm…curious. It wasn’t as if that was a huge advance at MPMF was it?

      • daniel maris

        I’m not sure the USPO did grant them a patent? Didn’t they just accept them into the process?

        • I think that is correct, Daniel. I never heard about the patent being granted, just applied for.

          • I stand corrected. Usually my memory serves me well I thought I read that a patent was granted.

            Numerous cold fusion/LENR patents have been accepted in Japan and China and
            many of them were from before the e-cat.

            Rossi may have a truce with Toyota.

            from:
            http://www.controversial-science.com/cf/patent.html

            “The USPTO has a long history of disdain toward cold fusion, and routinely rejects patents solely on the premise that cold fusion is a form of “perpetual motion,” and thus impossible.”

    • daniel maris

      What other EPO LENR patents have been issued?

  • GreenWin

    Slight OT, Big Energy in Play:

    Wow… Global bidding war for Italy’s Ansaldo Energia, (participant in NI Week LENR panels, reviewer Rossi October 1MW e-cat demo). Bidding is lively from Samsung, Doosan, and Siemens AG. This is significant as Samsung is a new bidder now doing due diligence – and is a giant in consumer products. Could US-Samsung be a carrier?

    http://pulse.alacra.com/deal-news/-C1097071

    • LENR4you

      Finmeccanica sets January 23 deadline for AnsaldoEnergia bids:
      http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/17/us-finmeccanica-ansaldo-idUSBRE90G13R20130117

      we will see who gets AnsaldoEnergia!

      • GP

        Ansaldo Energia is simply a very advanced producer of gas turbines and generators among other things, and Italian governement needs revenue, so Finmeccanica (parent company) is selling these gems. Siemens, GE and the likes are salivating at the prospect of acquiring it for so little money, so Italy can continue losing the few companies that bring innovation, revenues, and keep highly qualified scientists in the country. R&D will go to Germany or US, and production little by little will go anywhere they please.
        By the way I am a Cold fusion believer, this is not inteded as trolling, just a different perspective

        • Omega Z

          GP

          I believe their interested in Ansaldo Energia’s Clientele. Part of Ansaldo’s business is building Generating facilities from the Ground up with long term contracts for service.

          Siemens & GE are big enough that they could build their own Clientele, but it’s much cheaper & Faster to buy a ready made Customer Base along with the ready trained personnel to operate it.

          I doubt the Turbines are of that much concern to GE & Siemens as they have their own state of the art turbines.

          • Peter_Roe

            “I believe their interested in Ansaldo Energia’s Clientele. ”

            Especially true if one of the first products will be a retro-fit kit for a widely installed type of gas boiler. How many of Ansaldo’s existing customers would not want to practically eliminate their fuel costs.

  • Boris

    It’s US patent US2011/0249783 of 13 oct 2011. (Same patent for US)

    See google at link

    http://www.google.com/patents/US20110249783?pg=PA19&dq=0249783&hl=ru&sa=X&ei=R875UKDeGYiM4gT014CIDw&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=0249783&f=false

    Think Rossi and others knew 1 year or more ))

  • Master

    FYI There is no such thing as a “European Patent.” The EPO patent has to be nationalized in each member country before it can be enforced in said member country. Each member can conduct further examination and, for example, reject the patent for not claiming patent eligible subject matter (such as a cold fusion reactor or warp drive). Moreover, this EU patent cannot lead to any rights in the United States.

    In short, there is no reason to freak out.

    Regards

    • Gerrit

      We are not freaking out, we all merely very pleased and happy.

  • Paul

    Oh for Gods sake. No one can patent a natural phenomana – patents don’t work that way.
    You patent a process and/or a method and/or a device.
    Someone designs a different shaped device and a few wrinkles, its a new invention.
    Patents exist to protect people who spend their life and money trying to invent something.
    They spent time and money they are entitled to a reward.
    For a practical example, try and see how far you get patenting a generic ‘combustion engine’. You can’t as combustion is a natural phenomona – like LENR. You patent your version of an engine.
    Next guys designs somehting different and he can apply as well.
    Jeeze!

  • Omega Z

    The Patent doesn’t cover Nickel & Hydrogen but a Specific process or technic.

    How this will Effect Rossi or any of the other players we’ll have to wait & see. It’s all in the Fine details. There is always more then 1 way to skin a cat.

    • captain

      Rossi’s cat is REAL and wealthy: this is important.

      And very important is the first REAL step of an official institution, the EPO, in considering the CF-LENR matter and granting a patent.

      Important is that thru Piantelli’s patent, EPO is kicking off to the ‘lazy’ USPTO and UL.

      Considering the fact that Celani too is rocking the LENR boat…

      Considering that NASA too has started his way into the CF-LENR field…

      Considering that even DGT is eager to bite Rossi cat’s tail…

      The logical consequence of what above and more else (don’t forget ECW blog’s contribution, thanks Frank!) is that no longer the public institutions and the politicians, the world all over, will have to ignore the CF-LENR reality as a matter of almost unlimited source of clean, safe and cheap energy.

      But most of all, worthy of note is the fact that Rossi’s 1MW plants can be located, even temporarily, at any place on earth.
      And this is a convincing solution for an infinite series of issues that are negatively affecting the mankind.

      People dying for no drinking water, no heating, no food, no job…

      And the fat power lobbies…

      • captain

        …and considering the fact that the american Black knight on his White horse, is champing at the bit to start his race to the future of energy 😉

        • Peter_Roe

          Unfortunately it looks like any American ‘Black Knights’ may not be allowed their armour by the USPTO.

          • captain

            Hi Peter, I agree, but day after day, Piantelli, Focardi, Rossi… U’ll see.

            The italian Columbus discovered the new world (America) and the italian Rossi came to america to bring the almost unlimited source of CSC (clean/safe/cheap) energy for a new world.

            But as U mention,it’s time to Help End “Heavywatergate” and the 24 YEAR USPTO Coverup

            http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html

            quoted fm said website:

            HEAVYWATERGATE continues at the USPTO led by a corrupt Group Art that mischaracterizes facts about cold fusion on federal documents using mail fraud. For example, the Patent Office has claimed falsely that there is “no utility” to cold fusion.
            ………………..

          • captain

            captain added comment – in mod.n?

  • Gérard2013

    The patent war has begun and this is very good news. A snowball effect or amplification of the recognition LENR coming!

    In french

    La guerre des brevets a commencé et c’est une très bonne nouvelle. Un effet boule de neige ou une amplification de la reconnaissance LENR arrive!

  • Hugo

    Sorry if this is a double but I can’t find the original. Daniel Maris asked whether other patents on LENR have been granted recently in Europe and I answered EP1656678 B1. It was issued back in 05 2011. Here is a link: http://www.google.com/patents/EP1656678B1?cl=en

    • daniel maris

      Thanks v much for digging that out. That’s pretty clear then! The EPO have been accepting LENR patents as valid for some time.

      This is from Energetics Technologies. They seem big on the pulse nature of the phenomenon. One of their people had this paper published:

      http://www.worldsci.org/php/index.php?tab0=Abstracts&tab1=Display&id=6356&tab=2

      Looking at their website, surprisingly perhaps they seem to be at still a v. theoretical stage and it’s the usual search for investors/NDA schtick which I don’t personally like.

      I don’t really understand the patent world – how some people seem able to get patents for completely theoretical and speculative devices and others are denied them even though they have working machines.

      I guess a lot comes down to status in the scientific community.

      • A patent examiner usually accepts it even if it’s rather obvious to him that the invention probably doesn’t work. Only devices which clearly seem to break energy conservation or other similar natural laws are denied patentability (unfortunately also CF fell/falls in this category in the US). A common reason for denying a patent (besides lack of novelty) is insufficient level of detail in the explanation part. One cannot patent an invention and keep it secret at the same time. Many are probing this limit, so patents are constantly being denied or accepted with pruned claims. Science has rather little to do with patenting.

        • HeS

          @:”Only devices which clearly seem to break energy conservation or other similar natural laws are denied patentability”

          I do not understand why. If someone wants to patent a “perpetum mobile” and pays for it, let them have a patent on something that obviously does not work.

        • daniel maris

          It’s a bit more than that isn’t it? The way I understand it you have to have a coherent and sufficiently detailed narrative about what you have been doing and why you think it might work.

          The patent doesn’t say it works, but it does say if it works, then this patent can be looked to for protection because it sets out in logical steps what the invention is all about.

          This is just the impression I have gained from discussing LENR patents.

          • I wrote “Agreed.” to your message and the comment was deleted. Let’s see what happens with this one.

  • georgehants

    Vortex with thanks —
    :Dr. Edmund Storms, LENR interview on The Space Show (2013-01-18)
    Akira Shirakawa Sat, 19 Jan 2013 01:09:42 -0800
    Listen here:
    http://archive.thespaceshow.com/shows/1932-BWB-2013-01-18.mp3
    (90 minute MP3 46.1MB)

    • georgehants

      Don’t know where the smiley came from but it’s a nice snowy day here.

      • Peter_Roe

        All we have where I live is about 3 inches of freezing brown slush!

      • Veblin

        Actually that came from ECW to Vortex and back to ECW.
        See the older comments.

        georgehants posted about the live broadcast.
        I found the link to the archive of that broadcast even though it had not yet been posted on that site by changing the file name of the last listed show, 1931-BWB-2013-01-16.mp3

  • georgehants

    Some of the unpleasant deniers on ECN are begging the website to stay open so that they can continue to abuse Cold Fusion and each other.
    As no other Cold Fusion Website would toleration such infantile and unscientific behavior for one second, staying where they are is their only hope.

    • I would also beg that ECN stays accessible because its vast archives may hold some unique historical data from the complex twists and turns of the early period of Rossi and Defkalion, for example. Historians might study those in great detail one day, I think. Although most original material is found elsewhere, some of it might exist only at ECN, I think. It would be really good if someone who knows how to do it could make a backup of the site so that the potentially valuable data do not disappear from the world.

      • Peter_Roe

        Responded but deleted!

        I am in the process of doing what you suggest Pekka, in the interest of science history. As I said in my original comment though (without the letter substitution) having this stuff on my HD feels like storing horse sh*t in my bathtub. I think I’ll copy it off to a DVD when I’m done, and delete the downloaded files.

        • Great, Peter!

          Just curious, which software did you use? I tried with wget, but it didn’t like it.

          • Peter_Roe

            Hi Pekka. I’m using something called ‘WebReaper’. That said, it seems to have crashed at about the 60% mark, so I may have to try one or two others.

          • Peter_Roe

            Pekka – replied but in moderation for some reason.

          • Peter_Roe

            Rather than wait for moderation I’ll try again.

            I’m using WebReaper http://www.webreaper.net/). It seemed to hang up, but I’ve checked the downloaded files and they seems to be fine, with everything working in the local copy.

    • daniel maris

      I thought it had shut. I don’t mind debating openly with high sceptics. But it is probably best to have a separate website for that. The problem with consensus is you can all agree to go down the wrong road.

      • Peter_Roe

        An astute observation, but nine out of ten cats disagree.

      • Gerrit

        “The problem with consensus is you can all agree to go down the wrong road.”

        +1

        or with a bit rewording “… you can all agree to go down the road that promises a comfortable journey, but won’t lead you to the promised land”

        🙂

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          “A consensus means that everyone agrees to say collectively what no one believes individually.” – Abba Eban

          • Peter_Roe

            Excellent – that definition should be in the Oxford dictionary.

  • Björn

    Andrea Rossi
    January 19th, 2013 at 6:14 AM
    Dear Readers:
    I receive many requests of opinion about the last patents granted in matter of LENR: this comment answers to all.
    None of those patents explain how the E-Cat can work. I read very shaky theories in them that never produced anything really working. The described apparatuses, that we replicated with high fidelity after the publication of such patents to check their validity, actually do not work. Not at all. Everybody can try…
    Every further comment is useless.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Peter_Roe

      Rossi is coming over as rather bitter here. He doesn’t specifically mention Piantelli’s devices, either – just such devices in general. Presumably he was aware of the content of P’s application some time before publication, and he would probably have had time to attempt replication, but not ‘after the publication’ though.

      • Hugo

        Depends on what you mean by “publication”. The claims made in Piantelli’s application were public in 2009. More than enough time for both: attempting a replication and having his wife file an objection.

    • Gerrit

      this looks like the patent lawyer’s dictated response. It denies that the Piantelli’s patent is worth anything.

      The original response that got deleted had a more fighting wording, giving the patent credibility by the apparant need to fight it.

      • Ramsy

        The issue is not fighting and who is the hero and who did it better – We want to see practically working devices for the benefit of all humanity.

        • Zaghlool

          Well ,the Cold Fusion discovery is a “Life or Death issue” for Europe and America.
          Cold Fusion discovery came in the right and perfect time to save many nations from immediate collapse – Thanks God for his perfect care.

          • anyway it will be good for all planet, and it means that anyway the power wil move to asia.

            we in occident just wont be poor. but no more the greatest…

            there is also as I anticipated long ago the possibility ; in europe, that we suicide by forbiding LENR for religious reasons like we do for GMO, shales, immunization, waves.

          • Hugo

            I get GMO and shale and agree. But what do you mean with immunization and waves?

          • Zaghlool

            I’m not from Europe or American,but I can see the people there deviated much off the truth way and the values- that is why the bless is taken away from them and given to another nations ware away from the seen.

          • the same churches (sects like IVI) are trying to manipulate public opinion agains immunization, against GSM waves…

            the curtain is falling in france with one lord of fraud who get connected to another doctor of mediatic medecine, and to an anti-science sect… IVI…

            just the extreme, because more mainstream well known politic/neoreligious NGO start to have more power tha state and corps (see their PR budget compares to exxon… billions instead of millions)

          • Zaghlool

            Even the churches in Europe and USA ,many of them deviated much away from the truth.

          • Ramsy

            Immunization means no European new generation – and that means the European people will be replaced by non-European people on the long run.
            The European race definitely will disappear.

    • captain

      I think that Rossi’s answer is diplomatic it doesn’t hurt so much Piantelli, does not harm Rossi, does not question the EPO’s job.
      So it avoids complicating the process in itself difficult for european recognition of the reality of CF – LENR.

    • Pweet

      Quote from Andrea Rossi
      “The described apparatuses, that we replicated with high fidelity after the publication of such patents to check their validity, actually do not work. Not at all. Everybody can try…

      Hello Andrea,
      The problem is, we STILL don’t have any reliable proof that your device is any different. Two years after your first announcements which made many people, including me, so very happy, most of them have now given up that we will ever see an e-cat on the market for all to purchase, which was the original promise.
      “The market will decide.” ?
      We still have nothing to decide on.
      Do the world a favour. Produce something.

  • Zaghlool

    Well ,the Cold Fusion discovery is a “Life or Death issue” for Europe and America.
    Cold Fusion discovery came in the right and perfect time to save many nations from immediate collapse – Thanks the sky’s perfect care.

    • captain

      C.F. means Cold Fusion ==> LENR ==> CLEAN, SAFE, CHEAP!

      but C.F. to me remembers also C(hernobyl) – F(ukushima)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLBRT_OY2No

      USPTO and UL: remember Chernobyl and Fukushima!!!

      LENR is CLEAN and SAFE!

    • rolando

      For the planet? Whats about Africa and Asia. We consider them humans too ?

      • They will just be the next leaders…
        Asia for sure, and probably after that Africa (have to cope with governance problems first, but already in progress)

        EU and US are in suicide mode… EU in depression, US in rage.

        • Already Albert Schweitzer considered west as decadent, dying civilisation…

  • Hogo

    I asked Dr. Rossi on his blog whether it was true that a license for selling his products in Japan was sold for not more than $ 500000,- as reported by Gary Wright but it disappeared. Does anybody here know something about these licenses? Half a million for a country like Japan can’t be true, can it?

  • Some points concerning Piantelli’s patent description.

    1) He says that a H- ion starts behaving as a heavy electron, replaces an inner shell metal electron and falls near the nucleus because of its small Bohr radius. If we forget the size of H- this might make sense. But then he says that the proton is separated from the H- and gets expelled presumably by the metal nucleus’ Coulomb repulsion. I don’t see where the energy comes from if the proton doesn’t fuse with the metal nucleus. If H- decomposes into proton and two electrons near metal nucleus, the proton is not expelled from the atom because the atom would then be negatively charged since it has one electron too many.

    2) In paragraph 0048 he says that hydrogen should flow at 3 m/s along the surface, to facilitate H2 molecules on average colliding at grazing angles with the surface so that they would adsorb better. This doesn’t make sense since the thermal speed of hydrogen already at room temperature is much larger than 3 m/s.

    3) In 0060 he teaches that argon is LENR poison. If true, it’s the opposite of what Celani and MFMP do.

    • Pekka we suspect that the nano structures are absorbing any gasses at loading range. Firstly we do not use Argon any more, just He, we are considering ways to calibrate without He as we suspect that if we do – even if we vacuum heat the Celani wires to try to remove it, we would still not get it all out and suspect that it might be the cause of very long loading times.

  • Karl

    As long as there is no fundamental scientific accepted theory of what is coursing the release of energy in the form of heat, electricity or perhaps in kinetic form, we should accept a number of players with variable theories and products with their respected patents.

    A lack of a clear theory is of course a disadvantage in one way but it could also be an advantage as it would be very difficult to block out competition or delay introduction of the technology. As a result number of players with slight variations would and should be able enter the field of CF/LENR.

    I guess that patent organisations prefer to grant patents based on fairly detailed descriptions of their respective process they like to protect, rather than promoting sweeping claims that would kill competition unless a full description of a secret catalyser is presented.

    In the Rossi case this may not be an option longer in regard to the original patent or even wanted scenario for him. It should not prevent him from complement with a number of new patent applications should he deem such action beneficial.

    The successive development of new collective knowhow and wealth is based on the ability to open mindedness in the scientific process and the ability to create patent for protection under an initial 20 years phase.

    The fact that there is no fully theoretical explanation of the CF/LENR alike phenomena where the best current officially accepted theory, based on QM, obviously lack the possibility to explain these reactions, it may still take long time until a complete theory can fully explain CF/LENR.

    The understandings of at least the micro and I also macro world or space, based on QM still have a number of mysteries to explain wherein the explanation of the CF/LENR phenomena may reside. It may still take many years before a fully unified theoretical explanation can be verified. This may be the case until a new Unified Theory can be created that explain these and other phenomena that is not explained in the QM theory.

    It is very promising that the patent organisations like EPO have started to grant patents in this field as it would enhance business development and collective human knowledge.

    • georgehants

      Karl, I would tick the like button if there was one.
      Unknown science, what a Wonderful opertunity for real scientists.
      What a disaster for the Dogma worshipers.

  • georgehants

    LabLit
    Science is broken: how can we fix it?
    There’s a German word describing people only focussed on work who are experts in that field, but totally incompetent in others: Fachidiot. It comes from Fach (which means profession, compartment) and Idiot (guess that). The way things are now, we are in real danger of becoming synonymous with scientist.
    http://www.lablit.com/article/757

    • GreenWin

      Out with the old (thinking) and IN with the new.