‘Compact Fusion’: Lockheed Martin Announces Fusion Breakthrough — Plan Commercial Reactors Within Decade (Press Release)

This news release reports that Lockheed, the major US aerospace engineering firm and major contractor for the Pentagon, has announced an important breakthrough that they believe could bring fusion reactors onto the market within a decade. This could provide some competitive pressure for Industrial heat and others working in LENR, although commercialization a decade away is long term, compared to what IH is trying to do.

PALMDALE, Calif., Oct. 15, 2014 – The Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] Skunk Works® team is working on a new compact fusion reactor (CFR) that can be developed and deployed in as little as ten years. Currently, there are several patents pending that cover their approach.

While fusion itself is not new, the Skunk Works has built on more than 60 years of fusion research and investment to develop an approach that offers a significant reduction in size compared to mainstream efforts.

“Our compact fusion concept combines several alternative magnetic confinement approaches, taking the best parts of each, and offers a 90 percent size reduction over previous concepts,” said Tom McGuire, compact fusion lead for the Skunk Works’ Revolutionary Technology Programs. “The smaller size will allow us to design, build and test the CFR in less than a year.”

After completing several of these design-build-test cycles, the team anticipates being able to produce a prototype in five years. As they gain confidence and progress technically with each experiment, they will also be searching for partners to help further the technology.

Headquartered in Bethesda, Maryland, Lockheed Martin is a global security and aerospace company that employs approximately 113,000 people worldwide and is principally engaged in the research, design, development, manufacture, integration and sustainment of advanced technology systems, products and services. The Corporation’s net sales for 2013 were $45.4 billion.

Below is a video of Tom McGuire talking about this compact fusion idea.

  • Ged

    Note, they haven’t tested let alone proved this works or generates excess energy. But still great news on theory and engineering design. Maybe they will succeed.

  • dodo

    afraid of loosing funding?
    nothing to show, only dreams.. in 10 years we will…..

    • mcloki

      BINGO. One more positive result from Rossi or SRI and the billions in funding for “Hot Fusion” will quickly dry up.These guys will fight tooth and nail to keep their funding alive. Expect it to get real ugly before it gets better. The attacks are just going to get more and more vicious.

      • Donk970

        Absolutely, and not only from the hot fusion industry that has been living on government funding for the last 40 or 50 years but also from the energy industry that has been banking on the status quo not changing. This is why I think that Industrial Heat will get this going in China first. Once that happens it will be a done deal and there wont be any way to oppose it. Of course it’s always possible that the US government could block any deal with China on the grounds of national security or something.

  • More interesting than the press release is a flashy video featuring a very confident project leader. He says good stuff, but still provides little justification other than small size means it’s a lot cheaper to produce test reactors.

    Definitely hot fusion. Those pioneers were very optimistic several decades ago too.

    • ecatworld

      Thanks Ric, I just added the video to the post.

  • More interesting than the press release is a flashy video featuring a very confident project leader. He says good stuff, but still provides little justification other than small size means it’s a lot cheaper to produce test reactors.

    Definitely hot fusion. Those pioneers were very optimistic several decades ago too.

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks Ric, I just added the video to the post.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Although the date of release could be a coincidence, this looks to me like a rearguard battle of the hot fusioneers. Maybe they just want to keep the military happy. The guy in the video is talking about emission-free energy generation. And what about the tritium problem, what about activated reactor walls?

    • Observer

      Seems that this latest E-cat test is starting to “shake the tree”. Oil is still dropping as we speak. All we need now is for Randy Mills to step out of the shadows with a Sun Cell reactor the size of a case of beer and boil a swimming pool!

      • Gerard McEk

        Every fund is dropping, Ecat has a big influence…..😄

  • Gerrit

    “in as little as ten years” That is great news for Industrial Heat, because they already have a reactor up and running at their customer today. They are ten years ahead.

    • it is funny to see what people can swallow without pain, because there is a theory…

      no need of evidence.

  • Jimr

    They do? Where is it. The unit shipped is not working as planned. We (Rossi) may be ten years til completion, I hope not. You would be surprised at the length of time it takes to fully develop new technology.

    • Jimr

      This was a reply to Gerrit, don’t know why posted here.

    • Omega Z

      Jimr
      Rossi/IH are aware that problems will arise & the plant is working to plan. That said, I don’t expect much serious momentum for about 5 years. I agree, things always take longer then the public realizes.

      While we complain about the time it’s taking, 50 years from now, People will exclaim, Wow, That happened fast. All depends on ones perspective. Do you have it or are you waiting.

      • Jimr

        How do we know the plant is working to plan. Rossi himself said it would take a year to debug ( and I’m sure that is not something as simple as customers plumbing not aligning with the cat) and Rossi is not prone to over estimating schedules. Also I’m leery of IH, why would they ship something that is not reliably tested. I would expect tweaking some adjustments but I believe they still have control problems.

        • Omega Z

          “Rossi himself said it would take a year to debug”
          This speaks for itself that they are aware that problems will arise.
          They are aware that you can’t really do this in a lab setting. You need it to be used for real work in a production setting to debug issues.

          It is a far cry from heating a large space like a building or just heating water or making steam. Conditions in a production setting can change/vary drastically, quickly & not necessarily at set intervals. A Lot of random circumstances.

          This “Pilot Plant” is in fact a part of the R&D and I’m quite sure the customer is well aware of this. I would imagine they received quite a good deal for their inconvenience.

          “why would they ship something that is not reliably tested”

          This is a common practice with new Industrial developments.
          Late 70’s the 1st fully auto CNC machines worked great in clean room lab where it was developed. Made 1 part every 3 minutes verses the operator manual system that made 1 part every 6 minutes.

          In the factory setting with the grime & heat, it produced 1 part every 12 minutes “WHEN” it stayed running. Aside from a range of other problems, It seems someone didn’t realize Heat & Computers don’t play well together. It took a year fix the issues & to get it to equal the manual production. I was told by the plant manager that After 5 years of improvements, it was producing parts every 2 minutes 24/5. 300% production gain.

          I’ve seen similar processes with Bot introductions. The 1st situations were not very pretty & actually quite dangerous. One particular Bot worked perfect in simulated work exactly as it would work in the factory over 6 months of testing.

          In the Factory, It popped seals & hydraulic lines faster then they could fix them. Work 5/10 minutes then spend 2 or 3 days repairing it. It’s computer was totally disassociated from it in a separate air conditioned room. They built concrete walls around it because it continuously ripped out the wire safety cage.

          Like who new hydraulic fluids & computers couldn’t deal with a 150′ enviroment being in front of a 1800′ open furnace door. After about 3 years & 5 million$, they sold it for scrap metal. Started redesign from scratch. The 1st thing to go was the flame throwing hydrolics with air rams.

          So, The only way to really simulate factory conditions is to actually put it to work in a factory.

  • Jimr

    They do? Where is it. The unit shipped is not working as planned. We (Rossi) may be ten years til completion, I hope not. You would be surprised at the length of time it takes to fully develop new technology.

    • Jimr

      This was a reply to Gerrit, don’t know why posted here.

    • Omega Z

      Jimr
      Rossi/IH are aware that problems will arise & the plant is working to plan. That said, I don’t expect much serious momentum for about 5 years. I agree, things always take longer then the public realizes.

      While we complain about the time it’s taking, 50 years from now, People will exclaim, Wow, That happened fast. All depends on ones perspective. Do you have it or are you waiting.

      • Jimr

        How do we know the plant is working to plan. Rossi himself said it would take a year to debug ( and I’m sure that is not something as simple as customers plumbing not aligning with the cat) and Rossi is not prone to over estimating schedules. Also I’m leery of IH, why would they ship something that is not reliably tested. I would expect tweaking some adjustments but I believe they still have control problems.

        • Omega Z

          “Rossi himself said it would take a year to debug”
          This speaks for itself that they are aware that problems will arise.
          They are aware that you can’t really do this in a lab setting. You need it to be used for real work in a production setting to debug issues.

          It is a far cry from heating a large space like a building or just heating water or making steam. Conditions in a production setting can change/vary drastically, quickly & not necessarily at set intervals. A Lot of random circumstances.

          This “Pilot Plant” is in fact a part of the R&D and I’m quite sure the customer is well aware of this. I would imagine they received quite a good deal for their inconvenience.

          “why would they ship something that is not reliably tested”

          This is a common practice with new Industrial developments.
          Late 70’s the 1st fully auto CNC machines worked great in clean room lab where it was developed. Made 1 part every 3 minutes verses the operator manual system that made 1 part every 6 minutes.

          In the factory setting with the grime & heat, it produced 1 part every 12 minutes “WHEN” it stayed running. Aside from a range of other problems, It seems someone didn’t realize Heat & Computers don’t play well together. It took a year fix the issues & to get it to equal the manual production. I was told by the plant manager that After 5 years of improvements, it was producing parts every 2 minutes 24/5. 300% production gain.

          I’ve seen similar processes with Bot introductions. The 1st situations were not very pretty & actually quite dangerous. One particular Bot worked perfect in simulated work exactly as it would work in the factory over 6 months of testing.

          In the Factory, It popped seals & hydraulic lines faster then they could fix them. Work 5/10 minutes then spend 2 or 3 days repairing it. It’s computer was totally disassociated from it in a separate air conditioned room. They built concrete walls around it because it continuously ripped out the wire safety cage.

          Like who new hydraulic fluids & computers couldn’t deal with a 150′ enviroment being in front of a 1800′ open furnace door. After about 3 years & 5 million$, they sold it for scrap metal. Started redesign from scratch. The 1st thing to go was the flame throwing hydrolics with air rams.

          So, The only way to really simulate factory conditions is to actually put it to work in a factory.

          • bachcole

            The big issue, IMHO, is whether the reaction is going to be quenched or not. If so, how are they going to deal with that. They perhaps need to do some quenching tests, put lots of really cold water on the reactor, have the very cold water flowing over and under the reactor rapidly, that sort of thing. Try to see just how much cold can the reactor take before the reaction gets quenched.

          • Omega Z

            I don’t think quenching will be an issue with providing process heat/steam. And the pilot plant has already been operational for a while.

            I think quenching would be more an issue with high temp steam for electrical generation. But that should be manageable using heat transfer fluids such as salts. Then the issue becomes efficiency.

  • Foks0904 .

    Yeah I don’t think most followers of CF/LENR are “threatened” by hot fusion. Issues surrounding energy are never that melodramatic and/or black & white like that — I think many things could succeed at once. As always the issue is how our society stratifies/prioritizes its economic lifeblood (i.e. artificial scarcity leads to infighting amongst self-interested groups)

  • Sanjeev

    It can be a coincidence, but I’ve observed that whenever there is a big news in the area of cold fusion, many hot fusion claims pop up from nowhere, claiming grand success and a fusion power plant “just around the corner”.

    With the release of first independent report came the claim of overunity (obviously a false one) from NIF (or something similar) and some more hot fusion comedy. It repeats this time too, especially on nextbigfuture.com I saw some such claims.

    But its always either computer model or some vague theory or some false claim, they have never shown results so far and the final plant is always conveniently 10-20 years in future.

    • deleo77

      I am actually ok with this compared to the boondoggle going on in France. What is the U.S. spending on that? $2 billion? Probably more? Our country should invest in public/private partnerships. Look at what Tesla has done with electric cars, SpaceX for spacecraft, or what D-Wave is now doing with quantum computers.

      The government could chop that $2 billion down to $500 million and save the other $1.5B. They could take the $500MM and spread it around to 15-20 companies to help them with their commercialization efforts. Some of those companies could be Lockheed, General Fusion, Lawrenceville Plasma, IH, and Blacklightpower. The government could help with basic research and setup partnerships with top universities. I would rather have the government spend $500MM on something like that through the Arpa-E program versus sending $2B to the bloated white elephant currently being built in the French countryside.

      • BroKeeper

        Too many politicians are in bed with big oil. Not sure which is the prostitute. Don’t forget to vote (out) Nov 4th..

        • Omega Z

          Done Figured it out.
          The Politicians & Elite are the Mafia.
          Big Oil & Business are paying protection money.
          The Average Joe are the little Fish. We can’t afford to pay protection money. We’re screwed.

          • BroKeeper

            Now that makes sense.

          • mcloki

            That is a worthy bet to put money on. Maybe this site should set up a pool of money. let people actually place money down and pay out when you can buy first reactor. First side that produces a commercial reactor gets the cash.

          • Andrew

            I’d bet both that way I win no matter what. 😉

      • Omega Z

        Couple problems with joint public/private research.
        It usually turns out to be public/party in power cronyism.
        Even if this isn’t the case, The government has a very poor record on picking winners.

        It would be kind of like telling me to pick the (1) best brain surgery research technique to fund. It’s beyond my pay grade to make that decision. The Private sector is better at doing the due diligence in this. They have their own money & potential profits at stake.

        Grading the Two, I would give
        The private sector a 1 in 5 or 20% success rate.
        The Government sector a 1 in 15 or 6.5% success rate.

        I will say, The Idea has always been Intriguing to ME. If we could just find a proper & cost/beneficial way to implement it.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Lockheed Martin should standup to the bullying in academia and work on LENR.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yre-bA8zwqA

        • Alan DeAngelis

          I bet the engineers at Lockheed Martin are just itching to work on a Hot-Cat powered airplane designs that would require no shielding from neutrons. The atomic bomber comes to mind.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsCw0s0BJKY

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Pardon me,…on Hot-Cat powered…

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Come on, don’t you want to be part of the 21st century? Hot fusion is as subtle as a pile of bricks.

          • Alan DeAngelis
        • Donk970

          I would bet money that Lockheed Martin has had a skunk works cold fusion project going from the very beginning. Might be small but they’ve almost certainly done work on it.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah, it makes you wonder where they’re getting their tritium from to run there hot fusion project. When John Bockris at Texas A&M was seeing copious amounts of tritium in his CF cells the attack dogs immediately pounced on him. Keep in mind that Ragheb and Miley thought that the tritium could be formed in CF cells by an Oppenheimer-Phillips reaction. d(d,p)t.
            http://www.springerlink.com/content/u87311484300658g/

            “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”

  • Sanjeev

    It can be a coincidence, but I’ve observed that whenever there is a big news in the area of cold fusion, many hot fusion claims pop up from nowhere, claiming grand success and a fusion power plant “just around the corner”.

    With the release of first independent report came the claim of overunity (obviously a false one) from NIF (or something similar) and some more hot fusion comedy. It repeats this time too, especially on nextbigfuture.com I saw some such claims.

    But its always either computer model or some vague theory or some false claim, they have never shown results so far and the final plant is always conveniently 10-20 years in future.

    • deleo77

      I am actually ok with this compared to the boondoggle going on in France. What is the U.S. spending on that? $2 billion? Probably more? Our country should invest in public/private partnerships. Look at what Tesla has done with electric cars, SpaceX for spacecraft, or what D-Wave is now doing with quantum computers.

      The government could chop that $2 billion down to $500 million and save the other $1.5B. They could take the $500MM and spread it around to 15-20 companies to help them with their commercialization efforts. Some of those companies could be Lockheed, General Fusion, Lawrenceville Plasma, IH, and Blacklightpower. The government could help with basic research and setup partnerships with top universities. I would rather have the government spend $500MM on something like that through the Arpa-E program versus sending $2B to the bloated white elephant currently being built in the French countryside.

      • Brokeeper

        Too many politicians are in bed with big oil. Not sure which is the prostitute. Don’t forget to vote (out) Nov 4th..

        • Omega Z

          Done Figured it out.
          The Politicians & Elite are the Mafia.
          Big Oil & Business are paying protection money.
          The Average Joe are the little Fish. We can’t afford to pay protection money. We’re screwed.

          • Brokeeper

            Now that makes sense.

      • Omega Z

        Couple problems with joint public/private research.
        It usually turns out to be public/party in power cronyism.
        Even if this isn’t the case, The government has a very poor record on picking winners.

        It would be kind of like telling me to pick the (1) best brain surgery research technique to fund. It’s beyond my pay grade to make that decision. The Private sector is better at doing the due diligence in this. They have their own money & potential profits at stake.

        Grading the Two, I would give
        The private sector a 1 in 5 or 20% success rate.
        The Government sector a 1 in 15 or 6.5% success rate.

        I will say, The Idea has always been Intriguing to ME. If we could just find a proper & cost/beneficial way to implement it.

  • GordonDocherty

    In terms of “Hot-fusion”, lawrenceville plasma physics are way ahead of them…

    http://lawrencevilleplasmaphysics.com/fusion-power/dpf-device/

    Yet they, too, are not “liberally funded” by government(s) – while the NIF and ITER are… go figure

    • Donk970

      The funding for fusion is inversely proportional to it’s chances of success it would seem.

    • Omega Z

      NIF gets funded because it’s a triple purpose research project.
      For Nuclear weapons reliability testing, Advanced Laser development, And Hot Fusion research.

      Both MIT & Iter took a funding reduction. However, Government cuts can be deceptive. A 50% cut in a project can still be an increase exceeding the inflation rate. A $100 billion project targeted for a 10% reduction just increases it’s intended increase by $20 Billion. Thus starting with a $120 billion dollar budget after a 10% cut leaves $108 billion. An 8% increase with a 2% inflation rate.

      I recall in the 80’s, They clobbered/propagandized Reagan every year for 8 years on 50% cuts in higher education funding. What Reagan actually cut by 50% was the annual proposed increases. Here’s how that panned out. Start of taking office $2 Billion dollars. When he left, $8 Billion dollars. That’s a 400% increase in 8 years after 50% cuts every year. If only we could “really” get truth & transparency in Government.

  • Joniale

    The thing is that they have promised hot fusion many times. Cold fusion is not like that. In fact, LENR has been negated many times. LENR worked always against hot fusion mainstream. This has been by showing facts and evidence not promising something withing 10-50 years. If cold fusion researchers do that then most of the hot fusion world would think it is a joke. Isn´t it?. I think it is not fair you compare both when the start conditions are not the same.

  • Freethinker

    CFR, DFP….

    Sounds great. Seem to more complex, even more finicky than LENR and ECAT, and 10 years away from a product.

    Don’t take me wrong, I prefer this over TMSRs any day. I think they should do all R&D they can, but I think ECAT will be on the market before them, and I think ECAT technology will be cheaper in the long run, and a tech more apt to minimize.

  • Freethinker

    CFR, DFP….

    Sounds great. Seem to more complex, even more finicky than LENR and ECAT, and 10 years away from a product.

    Don’t take me wrong, I prefer this over TMSRs any day. I think they should do all R&D they can, but I think ECAT will be on the market before them, and I think ECAT technology will be cheaper in the long run, and a tech more apt to minimize.

    • Rob
      • Freethinker

        Sweet.

        Sounds like a great thing. Let’s hold our breaths.

        • bachcole

          3 years. That might divert some attention away from the E-Cat, but not for long, given how much cheaper the E-Cat is than any hot fusion project, if it can even work. Just because Lockheed says that they plan on doing it does not necessarily mean that they can do it.

      • NTAK

        Around the same time that Rossi is performing his 9th independent 3rd party test, I’ll be walking out of HomeDepot with my new Lockheed Martin fusion-plant

  • Donk970

    I remember doing a class paper on hot fusion back when I was in high school 37 years ago. They were saying that a fusion power plant was just 10 to 20 years down the road back then. The big hammer fusion guys have been working on this for at least forty years now and are still saying 10 years to reach over-unity and we still spend billions a year of tax payer money on this. While I believe that this kind of work is scientifically important it still boggles the mind that nobody blinks an eye at how much our government spends on this while simultaneously blowing a gasket over a few million of private investment money spent on cold fusion.

    • Daniel Maris

      Things are geting better though – it used to be 20- 30 years down the road!

  • Its funny how these stories pop up whenever something happens with “Cold Fusion”

    With the Advance of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR) field seems to have accelerated things in the “hot” nuclear fusion space. The Big Boys realize that they may become obsolete (with the Billions they’ve invested) if they don’t get a move on. Andrea Rossi’s E-cat (Industrial Heat) . Randell Mills of Blacklight Power, and Solar Hydrogen Trends, have kicked off a mad scramble what will be defined as the “New Energy Race” Trillions of dollars are at stake. In the next year we will see how abundant our Energy Options actually are. Pay attention. The fight has just begun.

    • Fortyniner

      As you say, it seems to happen every time there is a significant advance in Rossi’s activities. “Don’t look over there, look here!”

    • Donk970

      Yep, you’ve got a whole industry that has grown up around billions a year in government funding with no expectation that something useful will be built. Suddenly there is the very real possibility that someone might actually build a device that does fusion through a back door approach and it’s got them spooked. Whole careers could be ruined by this.

    • mike

      No way. The fight is over, they just don’t know it yet. 🙂

  • Its funny how these stories pop up whenever something happens with “Cold Fusion”

    With the Advance of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR) field seems to have accelerated things in the “hot” nuclear fusion space. The Big Boys realize that they may become obsolete (with the Billions they’ve invested) if they don’t get a move on. Andrea Rossi’s E-cat (Industrial Heat) . Randell Mills of Blacklight Power, and Solar Hydrogen Trends, have kicked off a mad scramble what will be defined as the “New Energy Race” Trillions of dollars are at stake. In the next year we will see how abundant our Energy Options actually are. Pay attention. The fight has just begun.

    • As you say, it seems to happen every time there is a significant advance in Rossi’s activities. “Don’t look over there, look here!”

    • Donk970

      Yep, you’ve got a whole industry that has grown up around billions a year in government funding with no expectation that something useful will be built. Suddenly there is the very real possibility that someone might actually build a device that does fusion through a back door approach and it’s got them spooked. Whole careers could be ruined by this.

    • mike

      No way. The fight is over, they just don’t know it yet. 🙂

  • Gerard McEk

    Every fund is dropping, Ecat has a big influence…..

    • Donk970

      I’m sure that in public Tom McGuire probably says the E-Cat is pure BS and a scam but in private? I would bet money that he’s in a real panic because he knows that the E-Cat is real and may well end his pursuit of hot fusion. The better question is what his bosses further up the food chain in Lockheed think. If I were McGuire I’d be worried that the company might decide that they’d lost the race to fusion and get out while they still could.

      • Omega Z

        Built at Lockheed Skunk Works. No Peeeky Peek allowed///
        Maybe Lockheed will produce a sealed black box with a LENR Reactor inside.

      • Donk970

        What they mean is that it will crush the royal family.

    • Omega Z

      Lockheed Martin- Military funding is gradually being reduced.
      Time to find a new money stream. Politics is involved.
      LENR will still be much cheaper & safer.

    • Rui Germano

      In short, these guys have have, just a hint, and are asking for 10 years and some millions to try it out. Did I got it right ?

    • NTAK

      Around the same time that Rossi is performing his 9th independent 3rd party test, I’ll be walking out of HomeDepot with my new Lockheed Martin fusion-plant

  • Ophelia Rump

    Fishing expedition, get your bait in the water before the good spots are taken.

    • Hot fusion’s pond has pretty much been fished out over the last 60 years.

      in mercatu veritas

      • Ophelia Rump

        That is why they are making “Compact Fusion”
        I think Mr. Fusion was already taken, perhaps by the Ronco corporation.

  • Private Citizen

    When a defense contractor gives you a budget, a timeline and performance specs, count on the outcome being 500% over budget, 100% over deadline, and 50% of the promised performance.

    Maybe i’m being too pessimistic. Would like to see some info on how they think they can contain the plasma without the instability that plagues the big hot fusion folks.

    • mike

      That’s the problem I think. But only this instability only causes the reaction to stop not melt down so to speak. Go check out Dr Randell Mills’ Grand unified theory of classical physics over at blacklightpower.com and he talks a lot about the fantastically good plasma. 🙂

  • Private Citizen

    When a defense contractor gives you a budget, a timeline and performance specs, count on the outcome being 500% over budget, 100% over deadline, and 50% of the promised performance.

    Maybe i’m being too pessimistic. Would like to see some info on how they think they can contain the plasma without the instability that plagues the big hot fusion folks.

    • mike

      That’s the problem I think. But only this instability only causes the reaction to stop not melt down so to speak. Go check out Dr Randell Mills’ Grand unified theory of classical physics over at blacklightpower.com and he talks a lot about the fantastically good plasma. 🙂

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I think Dr. Rossi has learned from his announcing time frames for events. I think his 1 year time frame for the industrial E-cat might be conservative.

    • Ophelia Rump

      It is already in production.
      Let us not start comparing next years orange blossoms to apples.

      • Donk970

        I wonder if any breweries are looking at using an E-Cat to produce steam for boiling wort. Breweries are very conscious of their environmental impact and using something like the E-Cat to make their carbon footprint smaller and also cut costs would be just the thing. There’s hundreds of micro brewers around for whom a 1MW heat plant would be just about right.

    • bfast

      I hope you’re right on the one year bit. I’m not holding my breath. I began holding my breath back in February 2011. Had to start breathing back in October 2012.

      • Brian

        Yes indeed !! The throwaway remark by Rossie ‘ this is the first time it has been under load’ ( the one meg. Reactor) was astounding and worrying !! How do you pre test a sale in that state! And also in development ????

  • Lockheed Martin was the company that donated $$$ to MIT for Cold Fusion research. The money was thrown back at them by someone in a higher up position.

    • Gerrit

      was this what was revealed at the atom unexplored conference ?

    • Donk970

      The money Lockheed Martin donated was probably chump change compared to the money MIT stood to loose if there wasn’t any need for hot fusion research. From a broad energy industry perspective hot fusion research has a couple of big advantages. First is that it poses no threat to established energy interests and second is that big, complicated science projects make the taxpayer feel like they are getting their money’s worth for their tax dollars. Cold fusion just isn’t sexy, people want big, expensive looking machines with lightning bolts playing across the outside like something out of a star trek movie.

      • Gerrit

        Cold fusion is sexy, people like this underdog to be true. It is the science journalism, done by scientists who are merely flipping news burgers that came prefabricated from Nature and Science, that make the big science look sexy.

        • Donk970

          For you and I Cold fusion is very exciting but for your average Joe Sixpack the huge machine with lots of wires and conduits is much more impressive. I know that when I see pictures and diagrams of the ITER project I can’t help but think it’s pretty damned cool. Then my practical side takes over and I remember that this little piece of ceramic the size of a piece of broom stick just generated infinitely more actual net energy out than the ITER device ever has.

          • Omega Z

            Joe Sixpack is doing quite well. Most people are now down to Joe Threepack.

    • clovis ray

      i diden’t know that.

  • Christopher Calder

    Almost the entire world will benefit from this fierce competition of 21st century super-technologies. I say almost, because what will this do to the Saudi Arabian economy? Oil will be needed for a long time for making chemicals, plastics, etc., so maybe they can make a living, but at a lower standard of living. What can Saudi Arabia produce other than oil and sand? The USA, Canada, Europe, Japan, and China will all benefit tremendously.

    • SiriusMan

      So oil will still be needed to supply the carbon to produce plastics, chemicals etc?

      It has been argued that with sufficient cheap energy, carbon can be extracted directly from the CO2 in the atmosphere, or in seawater. Both processes have already been demonstrated.

      Why bother shipping it in from the Middle East?

      • GreenWin

        Fie and heresy! You are right. 🙂 But SiriusMan, as King David requested mercy for Absolom, we still have to support the defeated cartels and minions. Consider this, we no longer need paraffin or wax candles, but it is a $4B market because we respect and find spirit in the “old ways.” We must not eradicate our past, rather use it as a foundation on which to build the future.

    • bfast

      “I say almost, because what will this do to the Saudi Arabian economy?” Well, 20% of the world’s economy is in the production and distribution of energy. 20% of our economy is about to be shaken to its knees. 20% of the careers and businesses out there will be toast — as a whole bunch of new careers and businesses are about to pop up. Short term economics will be tumultuous once LENR is realized.

      As far as Canada goes, well, its chief export and economy is, well oil. I don’t know the state of the other countries, as I am Canadian. But LENR will be economically, um, complicated in Canada as well.

      • Christopher Calder

        The US and Canada will face a boom because we have other things we can do besides pump oil. Think how happy Canadians will be being able to turn up their thermostats during the winter and how happy people in Arizona who even have air conditioned garages will be when they look at their electricity bill. The switchover to LENR will be gradual so I see no disasters for us. For Saudi Arabia, it may be allot more difficult. They have generations of people who have hardly had to work at all because oil money let the government pay for almost everything.

        • US_Citizen71

          After tens of billions spent over more than 6 decades and not a single milliwatt of excess power generated, along with the only proven continuous examples of hot fusion showing you need a gravity well the size of a star in order for it to operate, don’t you think that word fraud and man-made continuous hot fusion should be synonymous?

  • Almost the entire world will benefit from this fierce competition of 21st century super-technologies. I say almost, because what will this do to the Saudi Arabian economy? Oil will be needed for a long time for making chemicals, plastics, etc., so maybe they can make a living, but at a lower standard of living. What can Saudi Arabia produce other than oil and sand? The USA, Canada, Europe, Japan, and China will all benefit tremendously.

    • Rob

      Oil, sand and jihadists, you mean.

    • mike

      Hell man, oil dropped to 80 some odd dollars a barrel the other day, and Saudi Arabia is saying it will crush their economy cause 80+% of their economy depends on oil.

      • Donk970

        What they mean is that it will crush the royal family.

    • SiriusMan

      So oil will still be needed to supply the carbon to produce plastics, chemicals etc?

      It has been argued that with sufficient cheap energy, carbon can be extracted directly from the CO2 in the atmosphere, or in seawater. Both processes have already been demonstrated.

      Why bother shipping it in from the Middle East?

      • bachcole

        At the “plastics, chemicals etc” level of need, we wouldn’t need any oil from the Middle East; our reserves would be quite sufficient. Let them stew in their own wonderful culture that they are so keen about forcing on everyone else.

        The market will decide.

      • GreenWin

        Fie and heresy! You are right. 🙂 But SiriusMan, as King David requested mercy for Absolom, we still have to support the defeated cartels and minions. Consider this, we no longer need paraffin or wax candles, but it is a $4B market because we respect and find spirit in the “old ways.” We must not eradicate our past, rather use it as a foundation on which to build the future.

    • bfast

      “I say almost, because what will this do to the Saudi Arabian economy?” Well, 20% of the world’s economy is in the production and distribution of energy. 20% of our economy is about to be shaken to its knees. 20% of the careers and businesses out there will be toast — as a whole bunch of new careers and businesses are about to pop up. Short term economics will be tumultuous once LENR is realized.

      As far as Canada goes, well, its chief export and economy is, well oil. I don’t know the state of the other countries, as I am Canadian. But LENR will be economically, um, complicated in Canada as well.

      • The US and Canada will face a boom because we have other things we can do besides pump oil. Think how happy Canadians will be being able to turn up their thermostats during the winter and how happy people in Arizona who even have air conditioned garages will be when they look at their electricity bill. The switchover to LENR will be gradual so I see no disasters for us. For Saudi Arabia, it may be allot more difficult. They have generations of people who have hardly had to work at all because oil money let the government pay for almost everything.

        • bfast

          The overall effect will be boom — eventually. But what of the guy who owns a gas station. He can clearly see that his business has 10 years life in it at most. So can he sell it? Nope. What of the plan for an oil pipeline, oil well exploration (my brother works in that industry), the building of a wind farm? All of these enterprises will see the writing on the wall, and will come to a screeching halt far before LENR makes it to the general market. All very forward looking energy enterprises will come to a halt as soon as the world realizes that LENR can run a car.

          The switch over to LENR will be gradual — painfully gradual. However, the problem with the gradual switch over to LENR is that it will be lead by its anticipation. As a car salesman, am I going to be able to sell you a gas guzzler when it looks like I can buy a fuel-free model three years down the road? Not likely.

          The transition will be far messier that a general analysis would lead one to believe.

  • Gerrit

    was this what was revealed at the atom unexplored conference ?

    • No Gerrit, one of the lecturers that I had never met at the MIT CF Colloquium 2014 told me.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Is this what you’re referring to Gerrit?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkmzCkEFt94

      • Stephen Taylor

        The polywell and this small hot fusion reactor are both very promising. Maybe the best from both will come together. Always good to have a fall back position in case LENR doesn’t make as much progress as we hope it will. There is some hope that a small hot fusion reactor could use Boron 11 as a fuel and thus be aneutronic and have zero nuclear waste and no proliferation risk.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          H(1) > B(11) > 3He(4) 8.68 MeV

          Yeah, that would be better. But they talk about mimicking the sun so my guess is d-t fusion. And they say:
          “The heat energy created using this compact fusion reactor will drive turbine generators by replacing the combustion chambers with simple heat exchangers. In turn, the turbines will then generate electricity or the propulsive power for a number of applications.”

          So, they wouldn’t be creating electricity directly from the flow of charged particles. Therefore no advantages that I can think of over the Hot-Cat.

  • Donk970

    I have very mixed feelings about the whole hot fusion field of research. My dad did some work on the original “Shiva” ICF project at Livermore back in the late seventies. A lot of good work has been done in hot fusion by very dedicated, hard working people who have spent their whole careers advancing hot fusion science. I also believe that the work done in ITER and ICF projects has advanced related fields like magnetics and lasers immensely to the benefit of other industries.

    But….

    While hot fusion research has received billions a year in funding for at least 40 years and they have been claiming that they will reach over-unity in the next 10 years for the last 40 years, it seems pretty clear that hot fusion will not yield a single watt of usable energy in the foreseeable future.

    Meanwhile…

    Claims that fusion may be happening through a pathway other than the brute force approaches seen in hot fusion are met with cries of fraud and scam. The field of cold fusion has been advanced through sheer doggedness in secret labs with no funding and no recognition for the last 25 years and looks to have not only reached unity but exceeded it by a factor of 3 or more. And yet these claims are seen as impossible and fraudulent regardless of the evidence provided. In fact the better the evidence is the louder the screams of fraud become.

    The people making these impassioned arguments that this is just a scam are like a policeman giving a ticket to a jaywalker while the bank across the street is being robbed. Nobody seems at all concerned about billions a year of taxpayer money being spent on hot fusion but their heads explode at the idea that some private investors might loose a million or two on this so-called scam.

    Me thinks I smell a rat…

  • Donk970

    I have very mixed feelings about the whole hot fusion field of research. My dad did some work on the original “Shiva” ICF project at Livermore back in the late seventies. A lot of good work has been done in hot fusion by very dedicated, hard working people who have spent their whole careers advancing hot fusion science. I also believe that the work done in ITER and ICF projects has advanced related fields like magnetics and lasers immensely to the benefit of other industries.

    But….

    While hot fusion research has received billions a year in funding for at least 40 years and they have been claiming that they will reach over-unity in the next 10 years for the last 40 years, it seems pretty clear that hot fusion will not yield a single watt of usable energy in the foreseeable future.

    Meanwhile…

    Claims that fusion may be happening through a pathway other than the brute force approaches seen in hot fusion are met with cries of fraud and scam. The field of cold fusion has been advanced through sheer doggedness in secret labs with no funding and no recognition for the last 25 years and looks to have not only reached unity but exceeded it by a factor of 3 or more. And yet these claims are seen as impossible and fraudulent regardless of the evidence provided. In fact the better the evidence is the louder the screams of fraud become.

    The people making these impassioned arguments that this is just a scam are like a policeman giving a ticket to a jaywalker while the bank across the street is being robbed. Nobody seems at all concerned about billions a year of taxpayer money being spent on hot fusion but their heads explode at the idea that some private investors might loose a million or two on this so-called scam.

    Me thinks I smell a rat…

    • mike

      Yea, and it just isn’t with cold fusion. They do the same with history, geology, archaeology, quantum mechanics, sociology, psychology, evolution, I can go on and on. Their evil just touches something you care about, but it infests our whole culture. Even economics. Remember, tax and spend is how you make a nation wealthy they say. And you are called evil or racist if you try to tell anyone it will bankrupt us.

  • Enrique Ferreyra

    Its such a nice gest of Lockheed to make this public release in a context of oil prices crisis…

  • Donk970

    The money Lockheed Martin donated was probably chump change compared to the money MIT stood to loose if there wasn’t any need for hot fusion research. From a broad energy industry perspective hot fusion research has a couple of big advantages. First is that it poses no threat to established energy interests and second is that big, complicated science projects make the taxpayer feel like they are getting their money’s worth for their tax dollars. Cold fusion just isn’t sexy, people want big, expensive looking machines with lightning bolts playing across the outside like something out of a star trek movie.

    • Gerrit

      Cold fusion is sexy, people like this underdog to be true. It is the science journalism, done by scientists who are merely flipping news burgers that came prefabricated from Nature and Science, that make the big science look sexy.

      • Donk970

        For you and I Cold fusion is very exciting but for your average Joe Sixpack the huge machine with lots of wires and conduits is much more impressive. I know that when I see pictures and diagrams of the ITER project I can’t help but think it’s pretty damned cool. Then my practical side takes over and I remember that this little piece of ceramic the size of a piece of broom stick just generated infinitely more actual net energy out than the ITER device ever has.

        • Omega Z

          Joe Sixpack is doing quite well. Most people are now down to Joe Threepack.

  • Donk970

    I’m sure that in public Tom McGuire probably says the E-Cat is pure BS and a scam but in private? I would bet money that he’s in a real panic because he knows that the E-Cat is real and may well end his pursuit of hot fusion. The better question is what his bosses further up the food chain in Lockheed think. If I were McGuire I’d be worried that the company might decide that they’d lost the race to fusion and get out while they still could.

    • Omega Z

      Built at Lockheed Skunk Works. No Peeeky Peek allowed///
      Maybe Lockheed will produce a sealed black box with a LENR Reactor inside.

    • David Taylor-Fuller

      So I really would love to see more resources thrown into LENR/CF like most of its supporters but I really don’t see how any CF power source would end all hot fusion research? It may alter how we think about which option is better for certain applications but it wont and cant kill it. Example, at its current level of development we cannot dream of building Rocket upper stages with an Cold Fusion reactor. sure it could potentially power a pure electric propulsion system but short of seeing significant ACTUAL scaling from the EmDrive or Woodwards Mach effect thrusters your better bet is blasting Fusion fragments out the tail end. Also, if LPP or Helion Deliver on their reactor promises they would be generating Electricity DIRECTLY from a “hot” fusion reaction. Given the timelines given by both those research teams which amount to the next 10-15 years I would be willing to place a large wager that direct electrical energy generation in the 20 MWe and above range would be off the table, for LENR/CF power sources.

      • Donk970

        Well, as things stand CF is apparently the only type of fusion that is even over unity. Right now, today, a hot fusion device is a very large, complicated and expensive brick. It all boils down to power density and since there are no hot fusion devices today that can produce even a joule of excess energy they have a power density of 0 in practice. The other important thing is that cold fusion is almost entirely unexplored territory. As soon as there is a functioning cold fusion power plant in production the level of interest in cold fusion will increase by orders of magnitude and there’s no telling what kind of devices will come out of it. All the people who have been banging their heads against the hot fusion wall for the last fifty years will either give up and retire or they will change directions and pursue cold fusion.

        • David Taylor-Fuller

          What you have described is CF becoming the new hot research fad du jour. Eventually the honey moon wears off and reality sets in, and reality is for the most part ambivalent as to what source of energy powers an economy. As long as it is cheap and perceived as safe. Then no one cares. While I am a supporter of CF getting more love, I still believe Hot fusion will eventually deliver on its promise. I just think the Massive international government program called ITER is a waste of money as it is constructed. Its constructed in a manner to make it hard to cancel. Not constructed in a manner that is conducive to making scientific progress. If it was then most of the development would be taking place in a single country, with really difficult components being sourced from manufacturers who can meet the required deadlines followed by lowest cost.

          Thats why I find it encouraging that private industry is taking a shine to Fusion in general. We are finally moving out of the era of government funded blue sky research and getting closer to where someone or group of people build and take something to market. It doesnt matter to me if the reactor is CF powered or Hot fusion powered. Its just long over due that we get off fossil fuels as a primary component of our energy mix as a planet and even longer overdue that we stop boiling water as a means to generate electricity.

          While I appreciate what humanity has been able to accomplish with heat engines. Its time to put a concerted effort into reviewing our theories and experiments along with sweet talking mother nature into revealing enough information to us so that we can ditch the heat engine idea.

  • Sanjeev

    http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/15/6982101/lockheed-martin-announces-its-skunk-works-wants-to-build-a-fusion

    This article on The Verge mixed up cold and hot fusion, says both are good examples of failure in this field……… headslap. 🙂

  • Sanjeev

    http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/15/6982101/lockheed-martin-announces-its-skunk-works-wants-to-build-a-fusion

    This article on The Verge mixed up cold and hot fusion, says both are good examples of failure in this field……… headslap. 🙂

  • MLTC

    Sounds promising, but LENR is better.

  • bachcole

    Assuming that it will work, notice that it had to come from outside of the nuclear energy establishment. The nuclear energy establishment has not had a new idea in decades.

    1. It will not be ready before LENR is already making a great show and crushing egos left and right.

    2. It will still have radioactive waste, just much less than fission reactors.

    3. It will still by highly centralized.

    • robyn wyrick

      Excellent points – and all assuming that it will work.

  • jousterusa

    As a former Executive Speechwriter in Burbank for Lockheed Chairman Roy and Anderson and President Larry Kitchen, I assure you that Lockheed won’t take 10 years to roll out their fusion project. But I also advise you that this announcement is meant to derail the appeal of the E-Cat, which will cost 1/1000th of what it will cost Lockheed to develop their device, which is likely to be obsolete long before it is commercially available. LENR-powered rockets are likely to be travelling outside our solar system by the time their reactor is ready.

    • Freethinker

      “LENR-powered rockets are likely to be travelling outside our solar system by the time their reactor is ready.”

      🙂

  • jousterusa

    As a former Executive Speechwriter in Burbank for Lockheed Chairman Roy and Anderson and President Larry Kitchen, I assure you that Lockheed won’t take 10 years to roll out their fusion project. But I also advise you that this announcement is meant to derail the appeal of the E-Cat, which will cost 1/1000th of what it will cost Lockheed to develop their device, which is likely to be obsolete long before it is commercially available. LENR-powered rockets are likely to be travelling outside our solar system by the time their reactor is ready.

    • bachcole

      When you say that it “won’t take 10 years to roll out their fusion project”, are you saying that it will probably take longer or are you saying that it will probably take less than 10 years?

      • Jonnyb

        More like 50 years if ever.

        • bachcole

          In that case, every hour of labor and every dollar spent on this project is a waste.

          Perhaps Lockheed’s management was hoping for a few weeks of increased share price so that they would make a little money. How could they really think that they are so special as to be able to crack a nut that so many people for so long have been unable to do.

    • Freethinker

      “LENR-powered rockets are likely to be travelling outside our solar system by the time their reactor is ready.”

      🙂

    • bfast

      “But I also advise you that this announcement is meant to derail the appeal of the E-Cat …”
      Yes!
      The timing of this announcement is an attempt, weak as it is, to counter the e-cat. After all, a bunch of nuclear physicists and engineers are about to see their baby flushed down the proverbial toilet. They’ve got to do something.

  • clovis ray

    Hi, guys.
    Lockheed martin,= all things bad, don’t get me started. hot fusion, like all the rest of the energy co. destine is to just fade away. i can smell the fresh air now, and it never smelled as sweet.

  • Freethinker

    Sweet.

    Sounds like a great thing. Let’s hold our breaths.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Lockheed Martin should standup to the bullying in academia and work on LENR.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yre-bA8zwqA

    • Alan DeAngelis

      I bet the engineers at Lockheed Martin are just itching to work on a Hot-Cat powered airplane designs that would require no shielding from neutrons. The atomic bomber comes to mind.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsCw0s0BJKY

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Pardon me,…on Hot-Cat powered…

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Come on, don’t you want to be part of the 21st century? Hot fusion is as subtle as a pile of bricks.

    • Donk970

      I would bet money that Lockheed Martin has had a skunk works cold fusion project going from the very beginning. Might be small but they’ve almost certainly done work on it.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Yeah, it makes you wonder where they’re getting their tritium from to run there hot fusion project. When John Bockris at Texas A&M was seeing copious amounts of tritium in his CF cells the attack dogs immediately pounced on him. Keep in mind that Ragheb and Miley thought that the tritium could be formed in CF cells by an Oppenheimer-Phillips reaction. d(d,p)t.
        http://www.springerlink.com/content/u87311484300658g/

        “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”

  • Andrew

    Maybe they added lithium to the mix. After all there is lithium in the sun, but it doesn’t create it.

  • Andrew

    Maybe they added lithium to the mix. After all there is lithium in the sun, but it doesn’t create it.

  • Aphantee

    This is a ‘hot fusion’ reactor, which is conceptually different with the type Rossi announced.

  • Job001

    Beauty queens and Hot Fusion want to “Save the World” with free energy.
    An old actor comedy movie employment gig comes to mind.
    Sad embarrassing campy comedy, never better, step right up folks or the rain will never fall!
    Black op funds and hope for dopes.
    Nope, fell for that before.
    Try LENR, independently replicated!

  • Job001

    Beauty queens and Hot Fusion want to “Save the World” with free energy.
    An old actor comedy movie employment gig comes to mind.
    Sad embarrassing campy comedy, never better, step right up folks or the rain will never fall!
    Black op funds and hope for dopes.
    Nope, fell for that before.
    Try LENR, independently replicated!

  • Chaz Scott

    What’s with all the hate for hot fusion? Even if Lenr does beat hot fusion. I don’t think it will be the end for solar or hot fusion especially for propulsion systems beyond earth. I think they will compliment each other quite nicely. I’ll welcome anyone of them–who ever comes first!

    • Donk970

      It seems to me that you’ve had fifty years or so where research on both hot and cold fusion has progressed at a very leisurely pace because the idea was basically academic. Now, with IH showing that their device works and claiming that the E-Cat is nearing the point where it can be put into commercial production the whole field of fusion energy has transformed into a horse race. The hot fusion guys are now in the position where they don’t have a seemingly infinite amount of time to make something work. There is now a serious threat that within the next ten years or so somebody will go to market with a fusion device. The heat is on, the stakes are high and a lot of people are in a panic. All of which is good for energy consumers.

    • US_Citizen71

      After tens of billions spent over more than 6 decades and not a single milliwatt of excess power generated, along with the only proven continuous examples of hot fusion showing you need a gravity well the size of a star in order for it to operate, don’t you think that word fraud and man-made continuous hot fusion should be synonymous?

    • bachcole

      99.9% of the hatred that you see is generated by the fact that hot fusionists quashed cold fusion in 1989 and have continued to do so since then. A lot of their disapproval was based upon their incorrect theory, which should not generate hatred. But we know that a lot was the result of greed and job insecurity.

  • Gerard McEk

    Let them prove they can do it. I wonder how acceptable small radiating reactors will be.

  • Gerard McEk

    Let them prove they can do it. I wonder how acceptable small radiating reactors will be.

  • malkom700

    While not present functional fusion device, until then such notifications have no sense.

  • malkom700

    While not present functional fusion device, until then such notifications have no sense. Of course, congratulations to Lockheed Martin for the progress achieved.

    • bachcole

      I think that malkom700 just said, “Until there is a functioning fusion device, such announcements make no sense.” And I agree 100%. Given that mainstream hot-fusion has tried for 60 years to get even a single watt over unity WITHOUT success, how does Lockheed get off announcing a working reactor when they haven’t even assembled their design, let alone tested it?

  • Jonnyb

    So what, nothing about nothing.

  • Jonnyb

    So what, nothing about nothing.

  • Jonnyb

    More like 50 years if ever.

  • Enrique Ferreyra

    Why i (sadly) feel its more probable to see soon this Lockheed reactor going commercial than a LENR one…

    • mcloki

      That is a worthy bet to put money on. Maybe this site should set up a pool of money. let people actually place money down and pay out when you can buy first reactor. First side that produces a commercial reactor gets the cash.

      • Andrew

        I’d bet both that way I win no matter what. 😉

        • bachcole

          I fear any form of hot-fusion project because it will disproportionately draw funds away from cold fusion, because cold fusion has no theory and hot-fusion does.

      • Gralgrathor

        Don’t worry – the first one to build a commercial cheap clean fusion reactor will “get the cash” anyhow.

    • Donk970

      The wonderful thing is that no matter who wins, we the consumers and the world in general win.

    • bachcole

      Please give us your reasons. The E-Cat is producing 1400 C degrees and the Lockheed is nothing more than a plan on paper slightly different from a technology that has proven to be the biggest boondoggle in the history of the world.

      • Ken

        Two things Bachcole, If LM announces something, especially skunkworks, they’ve been working on it a very long time. Also, they have already performed plasma containment tests and know it will work. They have billions in funding and will not have any issues meeting their timeline. More than likely, their timeline is very very conservative unlike Rossi’s

      • Enrique Ferreyra

        I keep receiving advices that Lockheed “its closer than you think”, of course there is marketing in that, but you know a name like Skunk Works doesnt just bluff.

        This is not new, the why this is showing up now: its because US gov. has reduced drastically his defense contracts wich affects in a billion of ways to Lockheed.

  • Rob Mocca

    Does no one else think the secretive skunk works revealing this work had something to do with the positive LENR report? Like “Hey look at us! Don’t cancel our program because of this awesone LENR stuff!” 😛

    • mcloki

      100% certain. Expect a ton of “fusion” breakthroughs in the next month or two. There are billions riding in funding that will evaporate if Hot fusion is abandoned for LENR research. Expect a counter PR blitz from companies starting up LENR research labs and then asking for funding. Only so many funding dollars to chase. And LENR can burn your hand in a Senate Appropriations meeting. Roll an E-cat into the senate building and start it up.

      • Donk970

        My thoughts exactly.

    • catfish

      That’s nonsense. They’ve been giving hints about this for awhile. There is no big conspiracy here. LM has the finding on their own to develop and market this idea. There is no conspiracy here. There are a lot of hot fusion concepts, such as Helion that are getting very close. I’m not going to be a fanboy for any of them, just happy we’re moving into the future.

      • Donk970

        The LM announcement tells me two things. First is that they take this second E-Cat report seriously and second is that they are close enough to a marketable device that they think they can beat the E-Cat to market. The announcement is just LM letting everyone know that they are in the race and intend to win. All of which is good for us because it also turns up the heat on IH too and we are likely to see something useful from one of them or someone else entirely sooner than later.

      • US_Citizen71

        No one said conspiracy except you…and yes they are after you! ; )

      • Christopher Calder

        I don’t think the drop in oil prices has anything to do with the E-Cat, but I do suspect that the *timing* of the Lockheed Martin announcement is a direct response to the E-Cat report. I think the scientific and engineering community do take the second report very seriously and are worried that it will undercut their competing technologies. MIT professors are probably concerned that they will all have to start apologizing soon. It is not a conspiracy, however; it is just the way things have worked out. You could call it “karma.”

        • Stephen Taylor

          I’ve been in the same camp on oil prices but I really am beginning to wonder. The relationship between WTI and the S&P has been too connected to ignore. Oil goes down and the market follows violently in recent days. There is probably some forced selling to cover leveraged positions. Too many things going on at the same time so we can only wonder what the real reasons are. I agree completely with the rest you have said especially the “karma”. Much more “karma balance” may be coming so it always pays to be nice and stay open to developments.

    • Stephen Taylor

      I think a lot of that sort of thing does happen. We’ve seen it in the past and it seems very intense this time around. Sort of proportional to the threat in my view. There are limited resources available in the private sector and competition is intense.

  • Rob Mocca

    Does no one else think the secretive skunk works revealing this work had something to do with the positive LENR report? Like “Hey look at us! Don’t cancel our program because of this awesone LENR stuff!” 😛

    • mcloki

      100% certain. Expect a ton of “fusion” breakthroughs in the next month or two. There are billions riding in funding that will evaporate if Hot fusion is abandoned for LENR research. Expect a counter PR blitz from companies starting up LENR research labs and then asking for funding. Only so many funding dollars to chase. And LENR can burn your hand in a Senate Appropriations meeting. Roll an E-cat into the senate building and start it up.

      • Donk970

        My thoughts exactly.

      • Gralgrathor

        There are billions riding in funding that will evaporate if Hot fusion is abandoned for LENR research

        Well, no. The thing with LENR is that, if it works, it’ll cost less. After all, you don’t need ridiculous temperatures, so you don’t need complicated and massive containment systems. Which means we can easily spend money on both avenues of investigation. And LM’s suitcase HF reactor and FF as the middle road.

        • Omega Z

          It will be much larger then a suitcase(Dump-truck) & what I’ve read, it will not be competitive to fossil fuels. This is not going to be cheap, Just an alternative.

    • catfish

      That’s nonsense. They’ve been giving hints about this for awhile. There is no big conspiracy here. LM has the finding on their own to develop and market this idea. There is no conspiracy here. There are a lot of hot fusion concepts, such as Helion that are getting very close. I’m not going to be a fanboy for any of them, just happy we’re moving into the future.

      • Donk970

        The LM announcement tells me two things. First is that they take this second E-Cat report seriously and second is that they are close enough to a marketable device that they think they can beat the E-Cat to market. The announcement is just LM letting everyone know that they are in the race and intend to win. All of which is good for us because it also turns up the heat on IH too and we are likely to see something useful from one of them or someone else entirely sooner than later.

        • Gralgrathor

          hey take this second E-Cat report seriously

          I’d believe coincidence before I believed that. But I think LM just saw this cheap energy hype as an opportune time for their announcement. Not that it is much of an announcement…

          it also turns up the heat on IH

          IH has its own timetable – and I don’t think it has much to do with the state of the market. It is just a scam, after all. They will perhaps benefit from the hype, but it’s not as if they have any technological deadlines to meet.

      • US_Citizen71

        No one said conspiracy except you…and yes they are after you! ; )

      • I don’t think the drop in oil prices has anything to do with the E-Cat, but I do suspect that the *timing* of the Lockheed Martin announcement is a direct response to the E-Cat report. I think the scientific and engineering community do take the second report very seriously and are worried that it will undercut their competing technologies. MIT professors are probably concerned that they will all have to start apologizing soon. It is not a conspiracy, however; it is just the way things have worked out. You could call it “karma.”

        • Stephen Taylor

          I’ve been in the same camp on oil prices but I really am beginning to wonder. The relationship between WTI and the S&P has been too connected to ignore. Oil goes down and the market follows violently in recent days. There is probably some forced selling to cover leveraged positions. Too many things going on at the same time so we can only wonder what the real reasons are. I agree completely with the rest you have said especially the “karma”. Much more “karma balance” may be coming so it always pays to be nice and stay open to developments.

    • Stephen Taylor

      I think a lot of that sort of thing does happen. We’ve seen it in the past and it seems very intense this time around. Sort of proportional to the threat in my view. There are limited resources available in the private sector and competition is intense.

  • Charles

    Lockheed to potential fiance: “Wait for me till I finish my extremely expensive hot fusion diamond with all those magnetic fields. Don’t elope with that phony suitor that’s slipped that cheap diamond on your finger. I think it’s phony, but I can’t prove it because he won’t give me one to check out..

    • BroKeeper

      If you scratch it against the financial glass ceiling, you know it’s real.

  • Charles

    Lockheed to potential fiance: “Wait for me till I finish my extremely expensive hot fusion diamond with all those magnetic fields. Don’t elope with that phony suitor that’s slipped that cheap diamond on your finger. I think it’s phony, but I can’t prove it because he won’t give me one to check out..

    • Brokeeper

      If you scratch it against the financial glass ceiling, you know it’s real.

  • Donk970

    The wonderful thing is that no matter who wins, we the consumers and the world in general win.

  • Donk970

    It seems to me that you’ve had fifty years or so where research on both hot and cold fusion has progressed at a very leisurely pace because the idea was basically academic. Now, with IH showing that their device works and claiming that the E-Cat is nearing the point where it can be put into commercial production the whole field of fusion energy has transformed into a horse race. The hot fusion guys are now in the position where they don’t have a seemingly infinite amount of time to make something work. There is now a serious threat that within the next ten years or so somebody will go to market with a fusion device. The heat is on, the stakes are high and a lot of people are in a panic. All of which is good for energy consumers.

  • Donk970

    Well, as things stand CF is apparently the only type of fusion that is even over unity. Right now, today, a hot fusion device is a very large, complicated and expensive brick. It all boils down to power density and since there are no hot fusion devices today that can produce even a joule of excess energy they have a power density of 0 in practice. The other important thing is that cold fusion is almost entirely unexplored territory. As soon as there is a functioning cold fusion power plant in production the level of interest in cold fusion will increase by orders of magnitude and there’s no telling what kind of devices will come out of it. All the people who have been banging their heads against the hot fusion wall for the last fifty years will either give up and retire or they will change directions and pursue cold fusion.

    • David Taylor-Fuller

      What you have described is CF becoming the new hot research fad du jour. Eventually the honey moon wears off and reality sets in, and reality is for the most part ambivalent as to what source of energy powers an economy. As long as it is cheap and perceived as safe. Then no one cares. While I am a supporter of CF getting more love, I still believe Hot fusion will eventually deliver on its promise. I just think the Massive international government program called ITER is a waste of money as it is constructed. Its constructed in a manner to make it hard to cancel. Not constructed in a manner that is conducive to making scientific progress. If it was then most of the development would be taking place in a single country, with really difficult components being sourced from manufacturers who can meet the required deadlines followed by lowest cost.

      Thats why I find it encouraging that private industry is taking a shine to Fusion in general. We are finally moving out of the era of government funded blue sky research and getting closer to where someone or group of people build and take something to market. It doesnt matter to me if the reactor is CF powered or Hot fusion powered. Its just long over due that we get off fossil fuels as a primary component of our energy mix as a planet and even longer overdue that we stop boiling water as a means to generate electricity.

      While I appreciate what humanity has been able to accomplish with heat engines. Its time to put a concerted effort into reviewing our theories and experiments along with sweet talking mother nature into revealing enough information to us so that we can ditch the heat engine idea.

  • Rui Germano

    In short, these guys have nothing, just a hint, and are asking for 10 years and some millions to try it out. Did I got it right ?

    • Gralgrathor

      They’re not really asking for money. LM has deep pockets. If and when they need money, it’ll be billions, not measly millions.

    • bachcole

      Darden/I.H./Vaughn et. al. have a mutually agreed upon financial arraingement with Rossi. Rossi sold his rights to Darden et. al. This is the ONLY source of funds that Rossi has. You couldn’t give him money if you wanted to. Darden et. al. are completely convinced of the reality of the E-Cat. Convincing other people who are not able to burn their fingers on it and watch it for days on end is not so easy. Rossi and Darden don’t need academia’s approval. They are going for the gold. If you are trying to make this appear to be an extention of a con, you are wrong. If it were a con, why would Rossi sell his rights to it to someone who can enter his laboratory any time that he wanted to. From the time that Rossi sold his rights to Darden et. al., he became dependent upon the financial success of the E-Cat. Does that sound like a good con to you?

      • Rui Germano

        Hi Bachcole,
        I think you might have made a mistake. I wasn’t trying to draw any parallels with Rossi and the E-cat. I was already convinced end of 2011 of the validity of the E-cat, and until now I’ve only seen things to support that feeling.
        With this LM announcement my problem is that don’t have a working reactor in front us, like Rossi did, just a theory on how to make. So it pisses me off a bit that these guys get world coverage on such an early stages, while Rossi has a fully working machine.
        That was the point I was trying to make.

        • bachcole

          Sorry.

          Sounds like you were way ahead of me on being convinced by about 18 months. (:->)

  • Stephen Taylor

    The polywell and this small hot fusion reactor are both very promising. Maybe the best from both will come together. Always good to have a fall back position in case LENR doesn’t make as much progress as we hope it will. There is some hope that a small hot fusion reactor could use Boron 11 as a fuel and thus be aneutronic and have zero nuclear waste and no proliferation risk.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      H(1) > B(11) > 3He(4) 8.68 MeV

      Yeah, that would be better. But they talk about mimicking the sun so my guess is d-t fusion. And they say:
      “The heat energy created using this compact fusion reactor will drive turbine generators by replacing the combustion chambers with simple heat exchangers. In turn, the turbines will then generate electricity or the propulsive power for a number of applications.”

      So, they wouldn’t be creating electricity directly from the flow of charged particles. Therefore no advantages that I can think of over the Hot-Cat.

  • VicB2B

    This Lockheed hype sounds like the same hype we’ve heard for 50 years. “We have a fusion breakthrough! We just need billions of taxpayer dollars to… make it.”

  • Grek

    LM has already hyped this once before. And that was in 2011 when ECat was very hyped. I think this project feels threatened internally in LM and has put this out to make sure that LM management does not squeeze their funding

  • Ivy Matt

    Some very good questions raised here, especially: why is this “breakthrough” being announced now, so soon after the latest E-Cat report? Did Lockheed Martin executives happen to see the report and then suddenly decide they needed to make an announcement real quick?

    Nothing so simple. In fact, Lockheed Martin first announced its fusion reactor concept on February 7, 2013, albeit without divulging many details. So one might wonder what this “breakthrough” is that has made waves in the news lately. Well, if you read Lockheed Martin’s press release carefully, you will notice that the word “breakthrough” does not occur. You may also notice the following sentence: “Currently, there are several patents pending that cover their approach.” Well, if you do a USPTO patent search for “Thomas John McGuire” and “fusion”, you’ll find three patent applications (20140301517, 20140301518, and 20140301519) that were published on October 9, 2014, only one day after the latest E-Cat report was released. Patent applications are generally private for 18 months.

    The implications are staggering: Lockheed Martin filed for the patents on April 3, 2013, carefully timing their publication to coincide with the publication of the latest E-Cat report.

    But it gets worse. Lockheed Martin is not the only entity involved in the attempt to steal Rossi’s thunder. The International Atomic Energy Agency is holding a Conference on Fusion Energy in St. Petersburg, Russia to drown out the E-Cat chatter in the week (Oct. 13-18) following the release of the report. And, if that doesn’t do the job, the American Physical Society’s Department of Plasma Physics has a conference set to have a conference in New Orleans, Louisiana from October 27 through 31. How curious that the hot fusion community is going to all this effort to draw attention away from Rossi. 😉

  • cush
  • Golgolta

    The LM reactor drawing looks like a stripped down tandem mirror reactor. It didn’t work 30 years. Not like to work out now.

  • Omega Z

    It will be much larger then a suitcase(Dump-truck) & what I’ve read, it will not be competitive to fossil fuels. This is not going to be cheap, Just an alternative.

  • Omega Z

    Only smaller

  • Omega Z

    I don’t think quenching will be an issue with providing process heat/steam. And the pilot plant has already been operational for a while.

    I think quenching would be more an issue with high temp steam for electrical generation. But that should be manageable using heat transfer fluids such as salts. Then the issue becomes efficiency.

  • Enrique Ferreyra

    Please put in context the people who did this:
    http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/corporate/photo/skunkworks/chart-v2.png

    Are telling you this now:
    http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/compact-fusion.html

    Why: They are no telling but i can ensure you why, its because US Gov. cut a lot of really important defense budget so they need to release this to “survive” in they historical levels.

    I see a big thing here, they are going commercial in 5 or less years and this are not words of a opportunistic new company with address in a rented office.

  • VicB2B

    I see a small thing here. Just another government contractor dreaming up a hot fusion gadget that will run 500% over budget, require 20 not 10 years to prototype, and produce plenty of dangerous radiation. Real? Unlikely. Clean? NO. Green? NO. Hot fusion track record? Sixty years of failure.

    Lockheed has access to the Navy LENR patent issued to SPAWAR scientists. Maybe they should spend a day or two thinking about LOW temp nuclear reactions. So far, every high temp hot fusion project has failed. For sixty years. On the taxpayer dime. https://www.sciencenews.org/article/ignition-failed

    • Anon2012_2014

      Hot fusion is cleaner than fission.

      The fission chain products, need for perpetual storage of spent fuel in cooling ponds, and the runaway Fukushima risk of the fuel catching fire and dispersing in the atmosphere is what make fission dirty.

      The fusion neutrons can be absorbed much more safely and to my knowledge, these hot fusion reactors cannot run away, they will simply shut off if the power is pulled or the cooling fails.

      Cost and making any hot fusion work are another issue — I will believe it when we see it. But they are a lot better than uranium or plutonium fission in every way.

  • Chris I
    • Alan DeAngelis

      “So the fact that Pons and Fleischmann were still alive meant the experiment
      hadn’t worked.”
      Physics of the Future: How Science Will Shape Human Destiny and Our Daily Lives
      by the Year 2100
      By Michio Kaku

      So, how much shielding would be needed on an airplane that’s powered by hot fusion?

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Holy smokes, we found a real journalist in the MSM!

      Thank you, Macrina

  • Chris, Italy
    • Alan DeAngelis

      “So the fact that Pons and Fleischmann were still alive meant the experiment
      hadn’t worked.”
      Physics of the Future: How Science Will Shape Human Destiny and Our Daily Lives
      by the Year 2100
      By Michio Kaku

      So, how much shielding would be needed on an airplane that’s powered by hot fusion?

      • Gralgrathor

        Depends on the type, I think. I’m not an expert, but I believe there are designs that keep the neutron-flux contained – that actually use the neutron-flux as a part of the process.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Holy smokes, we found a real journalist in the MSM!

      Thank you, Macrina

  • GreenWin

    This toon accurately represents the state of hot fusion science on Earth today. The guy on the right, is from Lockheed. http://bit.ly/11GpNma

  • GreenWin

    This toon accurately represents the state of hot fusion science on Earth today. The guy on the right, is from Lockheed. http://bit.ly/11GpNma

  • Rui Germano

    Hi Bachcole,
    I think you might have made a mistake. I wasn’t trying to draw any parallels with Rossi and the E-cat. I was already conv

  • Unbelievable

    This is funny. All the people on here bashing what could be a very good viable alternative energy source. You all sound like everyone who has bashed LENR in the past. BOTH TECHNOLOGIES WOULD BE WELCOMED! Instead of feeling threatened that someone is “stealing Lenr’s thunder” perhaps people should be excited that both technologies are stealing oil and coals thunder.