Andrea Rossi acknowledges that the Rossi Effect has been replicated … (Tom Conover)

Andrea Rossi acknowledges that the Rossi Effect has been replicated …

————————————————–

Marco Serra
November 20th, 2014 at 2:51 AM
Dear Andrea,
you said that “We cannot feed more information to our competition, which now is very powerful”. My question is:
how can any competitor be powerful without knowing the core effect that drive the ECat? Do you know of any lab
that succeded in replication of the Rossi Effect even in a minimal part ?

God bless you
Marco
————————————————–

Andrea Rossi
November 20th, 2014 at 7:26 AM
Marco Serra:
Yes.
Warm Regards
A.R.

  • Frank Acland

    Today on the JONP, rossi wrote:

    Giuliano Bettini:
    As you know, in our laboratory we have analysed all the claims of the competitors and reproduced their apparatuses. We found one that works. I already spoke of it, but it is not correct that I speak on his behalf.
    I suppose publications will follow. For now, I just have to say, honestly, that this competitor of us has made a good job.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    I think he is referring to a Brian Ahern system. Rossi has mentioned in the past that IH technicians have been able to replicate an LENR effect based on information in a Brian Ahern patent.

    • I thought Brian Ahern only produced tiny amounts of excess energy, “enough to power a watch”. I don’t think Rossi would worry about something that insignificant. Maybe he is in contact with a company that has produced kilowatts of heat. That would make more sense.

      • Obvious

        Once you can successfully replicate repeatedly the excess of enough power to run a watch, it is only a matter of time until each of the experiment parameters are tested, and thereby the method improved for greater gains.

        • But wasn’t Brian Ahern using deuterium and palladium. Replicating a E-Cat means powdered nickel and hydrogen gas.

          • Obvious

            Brian Ahern used 10 g of nano powder made of ~ 66%Zr, 21% Ni, and 13% Cu. He reported 5 to 8 W over several days, on at least two occasions.
            (Not sure if that that is 5 to 8 W for several days, or 5 to 8 W total in several days). Best idea is to find the original sources.

            Edit: Also look for the story on Les Case by Eugene Mallove (may his murderers rot in hell). Case suggested that Ni was a good material to use many years ago, because it should work similarly to his dry PGE catalyst device, but would be cheaper.

          • MasterBlaster7

            Lets not forget Schwarz with his NANOR. That guy is an MIT experimental grinder. I think he has the goods…but he is probably going to want to rest on the retro-patents. His company is JET energy I believe.

          • Obvious

            Is it just me not noticing, or have these guys been quiet for a while?
            I haven’t heard anything about them since spring it seems.

          • psi2u2

            I imagine they are pretty busy…..;)

          • LCD

            But he’s never gotten to the LENR+ level.

          • I recall Rossi saying that a company, I think in Europe, had a patent application that actually worked. I still think he is talking about a kilowatt level replication.

    • Jonnyb

      Thunder fusion?

    • LCD

      Yes this is what I’m referring to. But who was it. Brian Ahern is a good guess but in his last interview he didn’t sound like he had.

  • Rob

    Defkalion

  • Fortyniner

    Perhaps Rossi is (as is sometimes the case) being very selective about which part of the question he answers, leaving the reader to join dots that aren’t there. If the part he answered is “Do you know of any lab that succeded in replication of the Rossi Effect even in a minimal part?” then “Yes” could simply mean IH’s lab, which is obviously capable of replicating an e-cat. The ‘one that works’ might then be a distantly related system like Ahern’s, that is only capable of generating watts at present.

    • Obvious

      Rossi has commented on this before. If I am not mistaken, there are three (weak)replications of his effect. These are not optimized to the extent that Rossi claims to have obtained.

  • Perhaps Rossi is (as is sometimes the case) being very selective about which part of the two-part question he answers, leaving the reader to join dots that aren’t there. If the part he answered is “Do you know of any lab that succeded in replication of the Rossi Effect even in a minimal part?” then “Yes” could simply mean IH’s lab, which is obviously capable of replicating an e-cat. The ‘one that works’ might then be a distantly related system like Ahern’s, that is only capable of generating watts at present.

    On the other hand he may be answering both parts of the question directly, by acknowledging (without naming them) that Brillouin is at an advanced stage of commercialisation. At the current speed of development, it’s possible we might even find out which it is before we’re all pushing up daisies.

    • Obvious

      Rossi has commented on this before. If I am not mistaken, there are three (weak)replications of his effect. These are not optimized to the extent that Rossi claims to have obtained.

      • If we could see such a “weak” replication at MFMP, the hell will break loose!

        • psi2u2

          No kidding. Just think, we have front row seats, thanks to Frank & Co.

          • LCD

            That’s actually an interesting point at one point he did say that his lab tested three patents that claimed LENR and he was able to replicate their claims. Maybe that’s what MFMP should be doing.

  • Gerard McEk

    I am sure it is Industrial Heat who did this.

    • psi2u2

      That would fit with what he has already said.

      My hunch: independent replication was a condition of IH for the buy of Rossi’s tech.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Then this is just old news rehash.

      • Gerard McEk

        Marco Serra should have exluded IH in the question.

  • Gerard McEk

    I am sure it is Industrial Heat who did this.

    • psi2u2

      That would fit with what he has already said.

      My hunch: independent replication was a condition of IH for the buy of Rossi’s tech.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Then this is just old news rehash.

      • Gerard McEk

        Marco Serra should have exluded IH in the question.

  • Tom59

    This is wonderful news! Rossi is not the guy aiming to become the richest man in the world – it is more important now that he gets the recognition for driving this so far and inspiring others, together with all the researchers who spend so many years of their life on this.

  • Tom59

    This is wonderful news! Rossi is not the guy aiming to become the richest man in the world – it is more important now that he gets the recognition for driving this so far and inspiring others, together with all the researchers who spend so many years of their life on this.

  • Ophelia Rump

    The bad news: It is not a replication in the scientific sense of the word, if the party who “replicated” it is not first fully informed on how it is done.

    The good news is someone else has produced the effect with a similar rig. Which may or may not fall under the rights of Industrial Heat. Although I would think anyone who with the ability to make it work, already has their own technology, and this will just make that better.

  • Ophelia Rump

    The bad news: It is not a replication in the scientific sense of the word, if the party who “replicated” it is not first fully informed on how it is done.

    The good news is someone else has produced the effect with a similar rig. Which may or may not fall under the rights of Industrial Heat. Although I would think anyone who with the ability to make it work, already has their own technology, and this will just make that better.

  • Axil Axil

    Michael C. H. McKubre lists the following LENR players:

    Those embarked on practical demonstration include:

    Black Light Power (US) – raised ~80M, know little about them. Not CF?

    Piantelli (Italy) – visited 2012, confirmed results, still working on science.

    Rossi (Italy and US) – sold, bought & verified? Report reviewed in October.

    Defkalion (Greece, Italy and Canada) – Rossi spin-off, real product?

    Brillouin (US) – working with SRI.

    Let us deduce who it could be.

    Out…Black Light Power is working on the Sun Cell so they are eliminated.

    Out…Brillouin is working on a fluid bed design that is not E-cat like.
    So who can it be???

  • Axil Axil

    Michael C. H. McKubre lists the following LENR players:

    Those embarked on practical demonstration include:

    Black Light Power (US) – raised ~80M, know little about them. Not CF?

    Piantelli (Italy) – visited 2012, confirmed results, still working on science.

    Rossi (Italy and US) – sold, bought & verified? Report reviewed in October.

    Defkalion (Greece, Italy and Canada) – Rossi spin-off, real product?

    Brillouin (US) – working with SRI.

    Let us deduce who it could be.

    Out…Black Light Power is working on the Sun Cell so they are eliminated.

    Out…Brillouin is working on a fluid bed design that is not E-cat like.
    So who can it be???

  • Deepak Saharan

    One question bothers me from last many years which might be a little off topic . With these technologies coming out our energy problem will be solved and so will be air pollution. But one thing remain unsolved. That use of pesticides and other chemical we use that is ultimately poisoning the whole planet and will have serious consequences on health of biological creatures including us. Can these energy revolutions solve any of these problems .

    • Most pesticides break down rather quickly. The problem is loss of topsoil, which the global biofuel scam is making worse, as well as skyrocketing the cost of food. We need to ban biofuels worldwide. We also need to control population through birth control, not through starvation as we are doing now. Wars and terrorism currently only kill a relatively tiny amount of people. Malnutrition is the big killer and the greatest cause of avoidable mental retardation in children.

      • bachcole

        Christopher Calder, most population control is being done by education and prosperity, two methods that work very well. We are headed for 2 babies per woman and the population will level off at about 10 billion in a few generations. You can see this happen at http://www.gapminder.org/

        Click on “Gapminder World”. Select “Number of children per woman” for both axes. The click “Play”. Watch the average number of babies per woman head towards 2 over the past 40 years or so. And 10 billion will be easy once LENR is widely acknowledged. No worries.

      • HS61AF91

        Hydroponic home gardens, free energy to run ’em, not birth control. Growing food is positive, killing potential mouths to feed is negative.

        • bachcole

          mytakeis, I appreciate your desire to not kill unborn babies, but condoms and other birth control do not kill unborn babies any more than self-control does. And there really is a limit hydroponic home gardens.

          But, as I said to Christopher Calder, it is a non-problem. The population is going to plateau out at about 10 billion, and LENR will make that number easy to deal with.

        • If you are against birth control, you are living in the wrong century. Better build a time machine and escape to the past.

          • bachcole

            I confess that I do understand being against abortion, but how can a thinking person be against birth control and mathematics. And it is nice to talk about self-control, but I don’t see too many examples of it, including in the Catholic Church.

          • HS61AF91

            I’d rather however look forward to the excesses of necessities to come, when every conception has a place of honor in this new world. I hope I do not need a time machine to move forward to that inevitability. And I am not against preventing pregnancy, I’m against the termination of life after the pregnant fact.

          • Abortion and birth control are two distinctly different issues. You confused one for the other in your post.

          • HS61AF91

            sure glad we cleared that up. domo

          • bachcole

            Good for you; you believe in something above rights and pleasure. But why should that concern so dominate your thinking that you did not make it clear that you were morally outraged about a little tiny part of the birth control issue?

          • Mark Underwood

            Every conception? In humans nature eliminates about half of the fertilized eggs, most of which happens with the mother unaware of the spontaneous abortion. So conception itself shouldn’t be regarded as the last sacred word in the matter.

            One could argue, let nature, not humans, decide. Yet humans are arguably a pinnacle of nature and have it in their nature to … decide.

          • HS61AF91

            Good points; I think every conception wherein adults have a choice to terminate or not, i.e.; one that would result in natural birth, should nature not intervene as in spontaneous abortion, earns the moral imperative of life. Such cases can not escape the consequences of a decision to terminate. People being individuals, each will decide as each sees fit. Individual choice is the essence of being cognizant. After nature ‘allows’ continuing development of a fetus, I intuitively or instinctively know that the developing life, even while in the womb, knows, is aware, and if terminated, dies. Know, not believe, and am at peace with that knowledge. Faith showing through.

      • US_Citizen71

        The use of hemp for biofuel leaves the ground in better shape than before the crop is planted. Not all crops are equal.

        • Growing hemp for smoking to make people even more stupid is bad enough. America is dying because of its own stupidity. Stupidity kills nations, not fate. Growing hemp for fuel is criminal, not just stupid. Biofuels have raised the cost of fertilizer, farmland, and food all over the world. Biofuel farming erodes topsoil and increases air and water pollution. There are no good biofuels. They are not energy efficient because it takes oil, coal, and natural gas to produce them, and that includes biofuels from hemp. Biofuels are a solar power system, and solar power is far too diffuse to replace fossil fuels. Sunlight grows crops. That is the energy source. When you try to do the impossible you just create more ecological damage. It is far better to continue to use oil, which is a green fuel compared to biofuels, until we develope cars powered in some way by LENR. The cost of hemp biofuels would be astronomical. Cost is a good measurement of efficiency. Low efficiency equals high cost.

          • bkrharold

            Hemp cannot be smoked. It contains only trace amounts of the chemical THC. You are probably thinking of Marijuana, which is related to Hemp, but has no psychotropic effects. It does Cannabidiol or CBD a non psychoactive ingredient. Although it cannot get you high it has been used to successfully treat cancer and epilepsy.
            Industrial Hemp does not require fertilizers or pesticides. It grows on marginal land which cannot support conventional agricultural crops, leaving the soil richer. Its grows faster and produces many times more biomass than other energy crops. I agree turning corn into ethanol is an almost criminal waste of our valuable crop land and food resources.

            Hemp has many uses besides biomass energy. It is used in building materials, clothing ropes, sails. It was even used by Henry ford to create the body of a car that was much lighter than steel but many times stronger.

            http://www.hemp.com/2011/01/henrys-hemp-car-not-so-much-hemp/

            Researches recently discovered a way to create graphene from hemp. Graphene is a recently discovered material used to create super-capacitors and energy storage devices.

            http://www.nanowerk.com/nanotechnology-news/newsid=36890.php

            The other plant to which you are referring Marijuana, is a veritable miracle plant. It contains a complex mixture of cannabinoids including Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and CBD (Cannabidiol) which I mentioned earlier. THC and CBD, combined with the other constituents have been used to successfully treat many conditions where modern pharmaceuticals have either failed, or have serious side effects. It is being used to successfully treat PTSD Depression Hypertension, Epilepsy, Diabetes and even Cancer. Far from making people foolish, it has been shown to protect brain cells from the ravages of aging, especially Alzheimers.

          • bachcole

            Having used marijuana for a number of years, it will be impossible for you or anyone else to convince me that the recreational use of marijuana is just hunky dory.

            As far as the medicinal use, it is at least one step above pharmaceuticals in that it is natural and even paleo. This makes it beat the living snot out of all pharmaceuticals. There may even be some nutritional benefits. But it is still allopathic, like all well-intentioned natural remedies. I use well-intentioned natural remedies to great effect, but I remember that they cannot match the healing benefit of sending one’s own innate healing vitality a message with homeopathy and saying to it, “Wake up, you are neglecting an important job.”

            Flower remedies work similarly, but mostly only on the emotions.

            It is our innate healing force that heals everything; the most we can do is to help it, like with proper nutrition, exercise, low carbs, turmeric, rebounding, etc. etc. etc.

          • bkrharold

            I agree with you. Our bodies and minds are miraculous gifts which we must be very careful not to abuse. Marijuana can be helpful for certain distressing conditions when used wisely. It can be abused like anything else. It is each persons responsibility to take care of the gifts we have been given or suffer the consequences.

          • Yea, yea, yea. I was a high school student in the late 1960s. I know what hemp is. I know all the hype about how great it is. People get stoned and they imagine all kinds of wonderful things about it. Some people take magic mushrooms and believe they are contacting aliens from another world. I know all the damage being done in California by marijuana growers. It takes lots of water and fertilizer to grow the stuff, and it is causing erosion, water shortages, and water pollution. People need to sober up, not find more ways to make your mind detached from reality. Our politicians are detached from reality without even smoking marijuana.

          • bkrharold

            You are still confusing Hemp with Marijuana. Hemp does not get you high. It is an industrial plant which can replace plastic made from oil and paper with clean biodegradable alternatives, saving our forests and our ecosystem.
            As for Marijuana growers on our public lands, they are mainly criminals hired by the cartels. They will eventually be driven off when legal Marijuana becomes more available at a cheaper price. In the meantime I fully support every effort by our law enforcement to stop them.

          • Hemp is an old story. Minus the THC content, it is basically the same plant as marijuana. I live in Eugene, Oregon. You think I don’t know about hemp? I voted for legalization of marijuana in Oregon because I believe people are entitled to live their own lives and make their own mistakes. I also believe that smoking marijuana is bad for your brain, and creates a delusional, paranoid personality that cannot reason clearly. Our local counterculture newspapers are proof of that.

            If you want to get high, do it naturally. Even then beware that cosmic consciousness does not make anyone smarter, wiser, or more virtuous. Getting high, through meditation or through drugs, is totally non-related to intelligence. The so-called “enlightened” of the East are mainly a bunch of spaced out loonies who can’t understand science, the scientific method, economics, or even common sense in some cases. See physicist Max Tegmark’s YouTube video on what consciousness really is at

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzCvlFRISIM

          • bachcole

            I have to disagree with “Even then beware that cosmic consciousness does not make anyone smarter, wiser, or more virtuous.” Knowing who you are is the foundation of being wiser and more virtuous. Everything else is just trying real hard.

          • This is not the right forum to get into that debate. Way too off topic.

          • bachcole

            Chicken.

          • Google *calder meditation handbook* and look for *meditation handbook home* in the results. Then go to the essay, “Do you have a soul?”

          • bachcole

            I don’t need anyone to tell me whether I have a soul or not. I do not have a soul (unless you count my dogs as my “having a soul”); I AM a soul. You ARE a soul. In fact, we are both the same and only SOUL.

          • bachcole

            The good thing about illegal drugs is that you can more easily identify the bad guys when they are all located in the same place. (:->)

          • US_Citizen71

            If the planet is going to support 10 billion plus then we all need to get the stick out of our collective rears in regards to the cannabis plant. I do not make any real distinction between hemp and marijuana they are both cannabis plants just with different genetics. If allowed to grow wild for several generations today’s high potency marijuana strains will quickly return to a state very close to the industrial hemp they are related to and that many are descended from.

            Cannabis seeds are the only single source food for humans that we know of, meaning you can survive off of nothing but cannabis seeds. They contain fats, carbohydrates and all of the essential proteins that the human body needs that it cannot manufacture for itself. As a source for protein it is one of the cheapest and least environmentally damaging sources we have. It requires less acreage per pound to produce than livestock.

            As a biofuel the easiest and most environmentally friendly method is to collect the seeds then till the stocks and leaves back into the soil to build it up. The seeds are then crushed and the oil is collected. The remaining seed cake is edible and high in protein it can be mixed with flour to make protein enriched bread or even feed to livestock to enrich their diet. Using this method you not only get biofuel but food and leave the land that it was grown on in better shape than when you started. The oil can burned in a diesel with only filtration required of it before use if small alterations are done to the diesel engine. These alterations are to undo the changes that were made to diesel engines to allow them to use petroleum based fuels. If no alterations are made to the engine then a few simple chemicals need to be added to the oil before it is burned in the engine, this process can be done on a farm no dedicated refinery required. The hemp can be grown on marginal land or on premium land during what would normally be a resting season. As stated above no fertilizer or pesticides are normally required. Irrigation needed is minimal to not required other than on arid land.

            Then there is the 101 other uses; including paper, cordage, cloth, fiberboard that are longer lasting and stronger than those made from current sources. Or hempcrete that is stronger and lighter than concrete, wears longer, absorbs more than its weight in CO2 while curing and if used for the walls of a dwelling and left unsealed it will clean the air inside and have a high R rating. With all of the above you still think it is about some hippie pipe dream. It is about efficiency and survival. You are correct when you compare it to solar power because it is in the form of storage as biofuel or as a means of powering production in the form of the raw materials it forms. The market hasn’t decided the government has. Because of fear mongering over smoking a plant that man has been smoking for thousands of years. I live in a suburb of Denver the sky hasn’t fallen. Truthfully in day to day life it hasn’t changed anything other than you hear it talked about more. Life goes on here. Our legalization of hemp here will soon destroy any of the would be growers illegally growing in the hills. Legal hemp will soon be effortlessly turning their crops to garbage loaded with seeds due to the pollen released by the ever increasing acreage of hemp being planted here. The easiest and most effective way to prevent illegal outdoor growing of high potency cannabis is to allow widespread growth of industrial hemp. Medicinal or recreational growth can be handled in a warehouse with air filtration we have that down. Any state or country could control their illegal outdoor growing in this way. Much like hot fusion the tale of cannabis prohibition requires a bit of follow the money.

          • bachcole

            I am an elephant only with different genetics.

          • bachcole

            Christopher, I did exactly as you did, but I know that some of the things that happened were real. Marijuana was destructive for me. I did it as a way of feeling good, irrespective of what an irresponsible, dishonest, philandering, parasitic loser I was.

            But given the utter sub-natural, anti-paleo, toxic crapola that we the people get from the pharmaceutical companies, it is sort of hard to say that nothing good could come from cannabis. Recently I watched an hour long show about http://www.harborsidehealthcenter.com/ , and I am convinced that there is some value to medical marijuana.

            It is, though, allopathic (dislike heals like), and perhaps even palliative (covering symptoms). So I am not jumping up and down promoting it; so also are a lot of natural remedies. I am jumping up and down saying that we should take a second look at it and be tolerant of those who are benefiting from it.

          • I voted for marijuana legalization in Oregon. How much more “tolerant” than that can I get? The law really does not go into full effect until July. In the mean time, the currently legal medical marijuana stores are advertising in local newspapers, selling marijuana brands with all kinds of crazy psychedelic names that sound like they were made up by the Ben & Jerry ice cream company. Obviously, most people buying medical marijuana are just buying the stuff to get high. They advertise THC content and say how this or that product will blow your mind. I don’t think inhaling smoke is a serious way to fight disease.

            We are too far off topic and I will not post on this subject again.

          • bachcole

            “America is dying because of its own stupidity.” There is nothing magically special about Americans. We are “dying” because of our own success, because of our own prosperity. This is just another inevitable stage in our spiritual growth, and the challenge for most people is as usual: lust, greed, and anger, only this time in a prosperous world. Every nation will go through this, particularly when LENR comes available to everyone and makes everyone prosperous. Just think of us Americans as a vanguard in this process.

            It will be very difficult for some people, those that think that following the next fad is going to make them happy, those that think that being accepted or approved of by others will make them happy, those that think that having the next really cool object will make them happy, and in particular, those who are exercising their malicious intents. Theirs will be a particularly difficult spiritual lesson.

          • There are at least nine other countries that have greater per capita wealth than the USA, and our wealth is currently a hollow magic trick. We borrow money from other countries to fund our lifestyle. This cannot go on forever, and our house of cards will collapse. We are bankrupt. Our politicians are leading us with delusions, not facts. They are fighting the wrong wars and misdirecting our attention away from the real issues that are destroying us . Individuals are mortal, and so are nations.

          • bachcole

            What did I say that gave you the impression that I would or did disagree with you. Politicians are as much stricken by the luxury disease as is anyone else. And those that you send to Washington to fight these diseased politicians will be roughly just as diseased as those that they fight.

            We have to start with ourselves. For me, I have fought that aspect of the luxury disease that we call processed and convenience foods. I also search my soul a lot. Regarding the very latest gadget or car, I know that I can be happy without it; I rather save my money and not go into debt. I make sure that there is challenge in my life. I make sure that I am responsible to my family, friends, and society. I make sure that I never miss an opportunity to be kind to someone else. I make sure that every comment that I post says loud and clear that some form of spiritual aspiration is where it is at, and no amount of selfishness, greed, lust, and/or anger is where it is at. I make sure that I keep a good house so that my hard working wife can come home to a neat and clean home with the dishes and laundry done, so as to reduce her stress level.

          • Changing the subject, did you see this?

            http://pesn.com/2014/11/22/9602570_Report-on-SHT_at_Defense-Energy-Summit/

            This could save us *if* it is real. Maybe I am in a coma dreaming this.

          • bachcole

            This is either the invention of the millennium or else the worse case of wishful thinking ever. I will withhold deciding until later. (:->)

          • Brokeeper

            I have yet seen any evidence Rossi is a deceiver. He distracts from any mention of IP secret perhaps but not a deceiver. In fact IMO his integrity compared to most is off the charts.

          • bachcole

            I was talking about Solar Hydrogen Trends. Have you been drinking again? I’ve told you about that. (:->)

          • Brokeeper

            (Where’s my flask?)

          • Omega Z

            We’re all broke & borrowing money from each other. China buys our debt & we hand them back money. Note that off the books, the U.S. provided a Trillion dollars to Europe to keep it afloat during 08,09 melt down. What you proscribe as a U.S. maintaining a lifestyle extends to the world at large.

            It doesn’t matter if the U.S., Europe or Asia takes a tumble, We’ll all suffer the consequences.
            NOTE: 2 weeks ago, China proclaimed it is Flat A$$ Broke. This week their Shelling out money & manipulating their currency to try & boost their economy. Have to maintain that lifestyle…

      • Christina

        How about farming in buildings so nothing can attack the crops?

        Christina

        • You cannot grow the massive amounts of grains we need to survive indoors. You also cannot produce gains without rich topsoil, which we are eroding away producing engine rusting, energy inefficient biofuels. Half of our prime Midwest topsoil is already gone, washed away by erosion. What will we feed our farm animals? That means no dairy products, no meat, etc. Our government is criminally insane, dishonest beyond even the Mafia, and we keep electing the same people that have skyrocketed the cost of food all over the world. We get only a small percentage of our calories from vegetables you could economically grow in a greenhouse. The backbone of our food supply is corn, soybeans, and wheat. You cannot grow those crops indoors in any economically reasonable way.

          • bachcole

            I do much better without grains than I do with grains, so any argument based on how we need grains is not going to fly with me.

          • The majority of calories most Americans get come from grains. If you are on a restricted diet and do not eat carbohydrates, dairy products, eggs, meat, vegetable oil, etc, I suggest you consider the vast majority of Americans who rely on grains for survival. Specialty diets that exclude grains cost more and are not possible for vast the majority of people.

          • bachcole

            I admit that it is cheaper to whack your hand with a hammer occasionally than to buy a nail gun. But after a while, whacking one’s hand can get infected and can cause other serious problems. Human beings are not designed to eat grains, and I will not support it.

          • I don’t think you should dictate what other people eat, and human evolution and modern civilization was developed through eating grains. I don’t eat grains directly myself, only through dairy products and meat. Again, this is off topic, but without grains the majority of the world’s population would die. Rice, wheat, corn, soybeans, etc. power the world, not mushrooms, wild berries, and lettuce. FOOD = ENERGY. Grains provide the affordable energy to power humans.

          • bachcole

            I am not dictating what other people should eat. I am dictating what I should eat, and I will say what I think is correct to whomever I choose whenever I choose to do so. You are so fretful about government intervention that you are trying to keep me from telling people what I think is good for them. I just bought some coconut flour (16.6% carbs vs. white wheat flour, which is 73.3% carbs). I am not starving anyone by my switching to coconut flour. In fact, I may be helping someone to have employment. Let the market rule, and I will say whatever I please. (:->)

        • Omega Z

          Greenhouse crops are less nutritional, tho there is no reason I’m aware of that they can’t be of a supplemental nature of say 50/50. This is also a limited portion of our food source most of the low calorie nature.

          Crops like lettuce, cabbage & such are well suited for greenhouse growth as you can easily obtain 7 or 8 crops a year properly managed & certain other crops of certain breads of green beans or tomatoes produce multiple on going production. They can be profitable.

          Grain crops such as corn, wheat, oats, soy beans & rice can not be produced profitably in a greenhouse manner due to their nature & growth period required. People simply could not afford them. This doesn’t even take into account the mass volume required to feed the world.

          Something the fell below the MSM radar is that one of the big seed developer/suppliers has found a way to use “Somewhat” traditional selective cross breading. Somewhat as it is traditional, but due to technology advances, it takes most of the guess work out of the selection process. Once they develop a data base, it will be faster then GMO & cheaper. Also, it will not have a GMO label. It will just be another cross breed plant.

          Note: Not all GMO foods are an issue. Many are better & safer then heirloom plants. The Issue is we tend not to trust those doing the science.
          A good example is a new GMO potato. They added nothing. Just suppressed the genes that produce 2 different natural occurring chemicals in the potato. One a carcinogen when potatoes are fried & another that can be toxic at high levels. (Both will be present at far lower levels) A safer product, but because it is GMO, highly controversial. Once the new selective breeding process is perfected, the same GMO results will be replicated. GMO becomes a none issue. It becomes a product of nature.

          • bachcole

            Thank you for that, OZ.

            As long as we live in a society dominated by knuckleheads and nitwits who don’t understand the importance of nutrition for health and who fail to realize that all of their wealth is shit when they get sick, I will continue to distrust what they have to say, especially when they are trying to sell me something.

  • Most pesticides break down rather quickly. The problem is loss of topsoil, which the global biofuel scam is making worse, as well as skyrocketing the cost of food. We need to ban biofuels worldwide. We also need to control population through birth control, not through starvation as we are doing now. Wars and terrorism currently only kill a relatively tiny amount of people. Malnutrition is the big killer and the greatest cause of avoidable mental retardation in children.

    • mytakeis

      Hydroponic home gardens, free energy to run ’em, not birth control. Growing food is positive, killing potential mouths to feed is negative.

      • If you are against birth control, you are living in the wrong century. Better build a time machine and escape to the past.

        • mytakeis

          I’d rather however look forward to the excesses of necessities to come, when every conception has a place of honor in this new world. I hope I do not need a time machine to move forward to that inevitability. And I am not against preventing pregnancy, I’m against the termination of life after the pregnant fact.

          • Abortion and birth control are two distinctly different issues. You confused one for the other in your post.

          • mytakeis

            sure glad we cleared that up. domo

          • bachcole

            Good for you; you believe in something above rights and pleasure. But why should that concern so dominate your thinking that you did not make it clear that you were morally outraged about a little tiny part of the birth control issue?

    • US_Citizen71

      The use of hemp for biofuel leaves the ground in better shape than before the crop is planted. Not all crops are equal.

      • Growing hemp for smoking to make people even more stupid is bad enough. America is dying because of its own stupidity. Stupidity kills nations, not fate. Growing hemp for fuel is criminal, not just stupid. Biofuels have raised the cost of fertilizer, farmland, and fuel all over the world. Biofuel farming erodes topsoil and increases air and water pollution. There are no good biofuels. They are not energy efficient because it takes oil, coal, and natural gas to produce them, and that includes biofuels from hemp. Biofuels are a solar power system, and solar power is far too diffuse to replace fossil fuels. Sunlight grows crops. That is the energy source. When you try to do the impossible you just create more ecological damage. It is far better to continue to use oil, which is a green fuel compared to biofuels, until we develope cars powered in some way by LENR. The cost of hemp biofuels would be astronomical. Cost is a good measurement of efficiency. Low efficiency equals high cost.

        • bkrharold

          Hemp cannot be smoked. It contains only trace amounts of the chemical THC. You are probably thinking of Marijuana, which is related to Hemp, but has no psychotropic or medicinal effects.

          Industrial Hemp does not require fertilizers or pesticides. It grows on marginal land which cannot support conventional agricultural crops, leaving the soil richer. Its grows faster and produces many times more biomass than other energy crops. I agree turning corn into ethanol is an almost criminal waste of our valuable crop land and food resources.

          Hemp has many uses besides biomass energy. It is used in building materials, clothing ropes, sails. It was even used by Henry ford to create the body of a car that was much lighter than steel but many times stronger.

          http://www.hemp.com/2011/01/henrys-hemp-car-not-so-much-hemp/

          Researches recently discovered a way to create graphene from hemp. Graphene is a recently discovered material used to create super-capacitors and energy storage devices.

          http://www.nanowerk.com/nanotechnology-news/newsid=36890.php

          The other plant to which you are referring Marijuana, is a veritable miracle plant. It has been used to successfully treat many conditions where modern pharmaceuticals have either failed, or have serious side effects. It is being used to successfully treat PTSD Depression Hypertension, Epilepsy, Diabetes and even Cancer. Far from making people foolish, it has been shown to protect brain cells from the ravages of aging, especially alzheimers disease.

          • Yea, yea, yea. I was a high school student in the late 1960s. I know what hemp is. I know all the hype about how great it is. People get stoned and they imagine all kinds of wonderful things about it. Some people take magic mushrooms and believe they are contacting aliens from another world. I know all the damage being done in California by marijuana growers. It takes lots of water and fertilizer to grow the stuff, and it is causing erosion, water shortages, and water pollution. People need to sober up, not find more ways to make your mind detached from reality. Our politicians are detached from reality without even smoking marijuana.

          • bkrharold

            You are still confusing Hemp with Marijuana. Hemp does not get you high. It is an industrial plant which can replace plastic made from oil and paper with clean biodegradable alternatives, saving our forests and our ecosystem.
            As for Marijuana growers on our public lands, they are mainly criminals hired by the cartels. They will eventually be driven off when legal Marijuana becomes more available at a cheaper price. In the meantime I fully support every effort by our law enforcement to stop them.

          • Hemp is an old story. Minus the THC content, it is basically the same plant as marijuana. I live in Eugene, Oregon. You think I don’t know about hemp? I voted for legalization of marijuana in Oregon because I believe people are entitled to live their own lives and make their own mistakes. I also believe that smoking marijuana is bad for your brain, and creates a delusional, paranoid personality that cannot reason clearly. Our local counterculture newspapers are proof of that.

            If you want to get high, do it naturally. Even then beware that cosmic consciousness does not make anyone smarter, wiser, or more virtuous. Getting high, through meditation or through drugs, is totally non-related to intelligence. The so-called “enlightened” of the East are mainly a bunch of spaced out loonies who can’t understand science, the scientific method, economics, or even common sense in some cases. See physicist Max Tegmark’s YouTube video on what consciousness really is at

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzCvlFRISIM

          • US_Citizen71

            If the planet is going to support 10 billion plus then we all need to get the stick out of our collective rears in regards to the cannabis plant. I do not make any real distinction between hemp and marijuana they are both cannabis plants just with different genetics. If allowed to grow wild for several generations today’s high potency marijuana strains will quickly return to a state very close to the industrial hemp they are related to and that many are descended from.

            Cannabis seeds are the only single source food for humans that we know of, meaning you can survive off of nothing but cannabis seeds. They contain fats, carbohydrates and all of the essential proteins that the human body needs that it cannot manufacture for itself. As a source for protein it is one of the cheapest and least environmentally damaging sources we have. It requires less acreage per pound to produce than livestock.

            As a biofuel the easiest and most environmentally friendly method is to collect the seeds then till the stocks and leaves back into the soil to build it up. The seeds are then crushed and the oil is collected. The remaining seed cake is edible and high in protein it can be mixed with flour to make protein enriched bread or even feed to livestock to enrich their diet. Using this method you not only get biofuel but food and leave the land that it was grown on in better shape than when you started. The oil can burned in a diesel with only filtration required of it before use if small alterations are done to the diesel engine. These alterations are to undo the changes that were made to diesel engines to allow them to use petroleum based fuels. If no alterations are made to the engine then a few simple chemicals need to be added to the oil before it is burned in the engine, this process can be done on a farm no dedicated refinery required. The hemp can be grown on marginal land or on premium land during what would normally be a resting season. As stated above no fertilizer or pesticides are normally required. Irrigation needed is minimal to not required other than on arid land.

            Then there is the 101 other uses; including paper, cordage, cloth, fiberboard that are longer lasting and stronger than those made from current sources. Or hempcrete that is stronger and lighter than concrete, wears longer, absorbs more than its weight in CO2 while curing and if used for the walls of a dwelling and left unsealed it will clean the air inside and have a high R rating. With all of the above you still think it is about some hippie pipe dream. It is about efficiency and survival. You are correct when you compare it to solar power because it is in the form of storage as biofuel or as a means of powering production in the form of the raw materials it forms. The market hasn’t decided the government has. Because of fear mongering over smoking a plant that man has been smoking for thousands of years. I live in a suburb of Denver the sky hasn’t fallen. Truthfully in day to day life it hasn’t changed anything other than you hear it talked about more. Life goes on here. Our legalization of hemp here will soon destroy any of the would be growers illegally growing in the hills. Legal hemp will soon be effortlessly turning their crops to garbage loaded with seeds due to the pollen released by the ever increasing acreage of hemp being planted here. The easiest and most effective way to prevent illegal outdoor growing of high potency cannabis is to allow widespread growth of industrial hemp. Medicinal or recreational growth can be handled in a warehouse with air filtration we have that down. Any state or country could control their illegal outdoor growing in this way. Much like hot fusion the tale of cannabis prohibition requires a bit of follow the money.

          • The majority of calories most Americans get come from grains. If you are on a restricted diet and do not eat carbohydrates, dairy products, eggs, meat, vegetable oil, etc, I suggest you consider the vast majority of Americans who rely on grains for survival. Specialty diets that exclude grains cost more and are not possible for vast the majority of people.

        • bachcole

          “America is dying because of its own stupidity.” There is nothing magically special about Americans. We are “dying” because of our own success, because of our own prosperity. This is just another inevitable stage in our spiritual growth, and the challenge for most people is as usual: lust, greed, and anger, only this time in a prosperous world. Every nation will go through this, particularly when LENR comes available to everyone and makes everyone prosperous. Just think of us Americans as a vanguard in this process.

          It will be very difficult for some people, those that think that following the next fad is going to make them happy, those that think that being accepted or approved of by others will make them happy, those that think that having the next really cool object will make them happy, and in particular, those who are exercising their malicious intents. Theirs will be a particularly difficult spiritual lesson.

          • There are at least nine other countries that have greater per capita wealth than the USA, and our wealth is currently a hollow magic trick. We borrow money from other countries to fund our lifestyle. This cannot go on forever, and our house of cards will collapse. We are bankrupt. Our politicians are leading us with delusions, not facts. They are fighting the wrong wars and misdirecting our attention away from the real issues that are destroying us . Individuals are mortal, and so are nations.

          • bachcole

            What did I say that gave you the impression that I would or did disagree with you. Politicians are as much stricken by the luxury disease as is anyone else. And those that you send to Washington to fight these diseased politicians will be roughly just as diseased as those that they fight.

            We have to start with ourselves. For me, I have fought that aspect of the luxury disease that we call processed and convenience foods. I also search my soul a lot. Regarding the very latest gadget or car, I know that I can be happy without it; I rather save my money and not go into debt. I make sure that there is challenge in my life. I make sure that I am responsible to my family, friends, and society. I make sure that I never miss an opportunity to be kind to someone else. I make sure that every comment that I post says loud and clear that some form of spiritual aspiration is where it is at, and no amount of selfishness, greed, lust, and/or anger is where it is at. I make sure that I keep a good house so that my hard working wife can come home to a neat and clean home with the dishes and laundry done, so as to reduce her stress level.

          • Changing the subject, did you see this?

            http://pesn.com/2014/11/22/9602570_Report-on-SHT_at_Defense-Energy-Summit/

            This could save us *if* it is real. Maybe I am in a coma dreaming this.

          • You cannot grow the massive amounts of grains we need to survive indoors. You also cannot produce gains without rich topsoil, which we are eroding away producing engine rusting, energy inefficient biofuels. Half of our prime Midwest topsoil is already gone, washed away by erosion. What will we feed our farm animals? That means no dairy products, no meat, etc. Our government is criminally insane, dishonest beyond even the Mafia, and we keep electing the same people that have skyrocketed the cost of food all over the world. We get only a small percentage of our calories from vegetables you could economically grow in a greenhouse. The backbone of our food supply is corn, soybeans, and wheat. You cannot grow those crops indoors in any economically reasonable way.

          • BroKeeper

            (Where’s my flask?)

          • Chris I

            Dang’ he tried to patent a secret, and he tried to keep a secret that could hardly have been kept for long. Now it seems two parties are keeping similar secrets, and this number is bound to be increasing.

          • Google *calder meditation handbook* and look for *meditation handbook home* in the results. Then go to the essay, “Do you have a soul?”

          • bkrharold

            I agree with you. Our bodies and minds are miraculous gifts which we must be very careful not to abuse. Marijuana can be helpful for certain distressing conditions when used wisely. It can be abused like anything else. It is each persons responsibility to take care of the gifts we have been given or suffer the consequences.

          • Omega Z

            We’re all broke & borrowing money from each other. China buys our debt & we hand them back money. Note that off the books, the U.S. provided a Trillion dollars to Europe to keep it afloat during 08,09 melt down. What you proscribe as a U.S. maintaining a lifestyle extends to the world at large.

            It doesn’t matter if the U.S., Europe or Asia takes a tumble, We’ll all suffer the consequences.
            NOTE: 2 weeks ago, China proclaimed it is Flat A$$ Broke. This week their Shelling out money & manipulating their currency to try & boost their economy. Have to maintain that lifestyle…

  • BroKeeper

    I have yet seen any evidence Rossi is a deceiver. He distracts from any mention of IP secret perhaps but not a deceiver.

  • Omega Z

    Greenhouse crops are less nutritional, tho there is no reason I’m aware of that they can’t be of a supplemental nature of say 50/50. This is also a limited portion of our food source most of the low calorie nature.

    Crops like lettuce, cabbage & such are well suited for greenhouse growth as you can easily obtain 7 or 8 crops a year properly managed & certain other crops of certain breads of green beans or tomatoes produce multiple on going production. They can be profitable.

    Grain crops such as corn, wheat, oats, soy beans & rice can not be produced profitably in a greenhouse manner due to their nature & growth period required. People simply could not afford them. This doesn’t even take into account the mass volume required to feed the world.

    Something the fell below the MSM radar is that one of the big seed developer/suppliers has found a way to use “Somewhat” traditional selective cross breading. Somewhat as it is traditional, but due to technology advances, it takes most of the guess work out of the selection process. Once they develop a data base, it will be faster then GMO & cheaper. Also, it will not have a GMO label. It will just be another cross breed plant.

    Note: Not all GMO foods are an issue. Many are better & safer then heirloom plants. The Issue is we tend not to trust those doing the science.
    A good example is a new GMO potato. They added nothing. Just suppressed the genes that produce 2 different natural occurring chemicals in the potato. One a carcinogen when potatoes are fried & another that can be toxic at high levels. (Both will be present at far lower levels) A safer product, but because it is GMO, highly controversial. Once the new selective breeding process is perfected, the same GMO results will be replicated. GMO becomes a none issue. It becomes a product of nature.

  • This is not the right forum to get into that debate. Way too off topic.

  • I voted for marijuana legalization in Oregon. How much more “tolerant” than that can I get? The law really does not go into full effect until July. In the mean time, the currently legal medical marijuana stores are advertising in local newspapers, selling marijuana brands with all kinds of crazy psychedelic names that sound like they were made up by the Ben & Jerry ice cream company. Obviously, most people buying medical marijuana are just buying the stuff to get high. They advertise THC content and say how this or that product will blow your mind. I don’t think inhaling smoke is a serious way to fight disease.

    We are too far off topic and I will not post on this subject again.

  • Chris, Italy

    Dang’ he tried to patent a secret, and he tried to keep a secret that could hardly have been kept for long. Now it seems two parties are keeping similar secrets, and this number is bound to be increasing.

    • Imagine a world with abundant secret energy!

  • I don’t think you should dictate what other people eat, and human evolution and modern civilization was developed through eating grains. I don’t eat grains directly myself, only through dairy products and meat. Again, this is off topic, but without grains the majority of the world’s population would die. Rice, wheat, corn, soybeans, etc. power the world, not mushrooms, wild berries, and lettuce. FOOD = ENERGY. Grains provide the affordable energy to power humans.

  • mytakeis

    Good points; I think every conception wherein adults have a choice to terminate or not, i.e.; one that would result in natural birth, should nature not intervene as in spontaneous abortion, earns the moral imperative of life. Such cases can not escape the consequences of a decision to terminate. People being individuals, each will decide as each sees fit. Individual choice is the essence of being cognizant. After nature ‘allows’ continuing development of a fetus, I intuitively or instinctively know that the developing life, even while in the womb, knows, is aware, and if terminated, dies. Know, not believe, and am at peace with that knowledge. Faith showing through.