Rossi: E-Cat X Can Produce Electricity and No Heat

Thanks to Artefact for posting this interesting Q&A from the Journal of Nuclear Physics today, which gives some interesting new information about what the E-Cat X is capable of.

“Amos February 28, 2016 at 5:51 AM
Dear Mr. Rossi,
Is the energy density & power density of the E-Cat X the same as the E-Cat? Also, is it possible for the E-Cat X to produce only electricity and no heat?
Thanks, Amos.

Andrea Rossi February 28, 2016 at 7:42 AM
Amos:
1-The Ecat X has a higher power density
2- Yes, but in this case the efficiency is lower.
Warm Regards
A.R.”

That the E-Cat can produce electricity and no heat is a revelation. Rossi has said in the past that the ratio of heat to electricity can be adjusted, and now it sounds like there is no limit to that ratio. It sounds like the E-Cat can be used as an electricity multiplier (if the input is electricity) but Rossi mentions that the efficiency is lower in this all-electricity mode, so that leaves a lot of questions out there, but it’s fascinating to think of how the E-Cat seems to have become much more than a heater now.

  • Bob Greenyer

    That is really interesting

  • Bob Greenyer

    That is really interesting

  • RD Canuck

    This is very exciting but it is possible that Rossi might be indicating that COP <1 when it is only producing electricity.
    Would be a worthwhile followup question just to be sure.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Agreed. The way Rossi kind of downplays it in his reply makes me suspect some kind of misunderstanding.

  • That incredible statement implies that a steel version of the E-Cat X is possible that runs at temperatures more easily tolerated. Over the years, tweaking the system should yield higher efficiencies just as the gasoline engine has improved just a little bit since French engineer J. J. Étienne Lenoir built a double-acting, spark-ignition engine in 1859.

  • artefact

    I guess the reactor is insulated and inside still very hot.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Everything else would indeed be a miracle. But maybe somebody wants to ask Rossi about it.

    • Gerard McEk

      I have asked him that a while ago. His answer on whether the E-cat X could produce more electricity if thermically insulated, he answered: “Perhaps” or something like that. Probably he knows more now.

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    Apparently the high temperature reactor core e – Cat X is inextricably linked with the process of direct generation Electric . We can assume a lower rate of formation of vacancies in nickel and thus lower the intensity of the chain of nuclear reactions taking place in the reactor .

  • etburg

    Fascinating. An unrelated question. I saw reference on another forum to Russian work on LENR work using electrical discharges in plasma, using water vapor I believe, and it made me think of the Papp engine which used discharges in noble gases (which ran cool) and Mills using discharges with water. Do people think all this is related and converging on certain common basic principles? Forgive my relative ignorance. Aware we still really don’t know what the heck’s going on here.

  • etburg

    Fascinating. An unrelated question. I saw reference on another forum to Russian work on LENR work using electrical discharges in plasma, using water vapor I believe, and it made me think of the Papp engine which used discharges in noble gases (which ran cool) and Mills using discharges with water. Do people think all this is related and converging on certain common basic principles? Forgive my relative ignorance. Aware we still really don’t know what the heck’s going on here.

  • hunfgerh

    E- Cat or E – Cat X ?

    All just a question of the current density in the nanoscalled superconducting layer

    E- Cat :
    Current density > 10exp6 A / cm2 = e-capture = coldfusion = excess heat

    E- Cat X
    Current density < 10exp6 A / cm2 = no e -capture = no coldfusion = no excess heat ;
    Instead of strong magnetic field

  • hunfgerh

    E- Cat or E – Cat X ?

    All just a question of the current density in the nanoscalled superconducting layer

    E- Cat :
    Current density > 10exp6 A / cm2 = e-capture = coldfusion = excess heat

    E- Cat X
    Current density < 10exp6 A / cm2 = no e -capture = no coldfusion = no excess heat ;
    Instead of strong magnetic field

  • If you keep temperatures to 650 degrees C, you can still use steel and use the waste heat to run a very high efficiency turbine.

    “Advanced gas-cooled reactor (AGR) These are the second generation of British gas-cooled reactors, using graphite moderator and carbon dioxide as primary coolant. The fuel is uranium oxide pellets, enriched to 2.5-3.5%, in stainless steel tubes. The carbon dioxide circulates through the core, reaching 650°C and then past steam generator tubes outside it, but still inside the concrete and steel pressure vessel (hence ‘integral’ design). Control rods penetrate the moderator and a secondary shutdown system involves injecting nitrogen to the coolant.”

  • If you keep temperatures to 650 degrees C, you can still use steel and use the waste heat to run a very high efficiency turbine.

    “Advanced gas-cooled reactor (AGR) These are the second generation of British gas-cooled reactors, using graphite moderator and carbon dioxide as primary coolant. The fuel is uranium oxide pellets, enriched to 2.5-3.5%, in stainless steel tubes. The carbon dioxide circulates through the core, reaching 650°C and then past steam generator tubes outside it, but still inside the concrete and steel pressure vessel (hence ‘integral’ design). Control rods penetrate the moderator and a secondary shutdown system involves injecting nitrogen to the coolant.”

  • Bob Greenyer

    Cleaver question, and the answer is almost the same as saying all of the heat in an E-Cat comes from X-Rays.

    You can convert X-Rays to electricity – and if you do it without thermalising them, then you get no excess heat. Replications have been good at achieving the latter.

    http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jpcc.5b07876?journalCode=jpccck

    “Charge Collection Efficiency, CCE, as a function of photon energy is about 75%.” From soft x-rays, below where we would have seen them in bang.

    The other option is alpha voltaic.

    • Rossi did make that reference to Madame Curie.

      • Bob Greenyer

        You are missing the obvious

        X is for X-Ray!

        • Madame Curie did extensive work developing the X-Ray. What did I miss?

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Soft X-rays get absorbed already in the powder. If reaction happens on nickel particle surface, 50% of soft X-rays are emitted into the nickel particle and are absorbed there. If reaction happens inside nickel particle, the situation is even worse. And if there is a thick layer of nickel particles (more than a monolayer), the situation is worse. It sounds like an uphill battle to get high efficiency conversion that way.

      • Bob Greenyer

        But temp feeds the reaction

        You are right though – Soft gets absorbed pretty easily at the low end.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          True, the penetration drops rapidly below 30 keV. For example a 10 keV X-ray attenuates by 62% if moving across just 10 micron layer of copper (a proxy for nickel).

          • Bob Greenyer

            yeh… but, if the XCat can be tuned to a frequency that would let more X out…

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Yes, if there is monoenergetic X-ray emission line somewhere below 30 keV, then conversion might work. Below 30 keV, but above 10 keV, I would say.

            0.4 mm of tungsten takes out 100% of 30 keV X. For 10 keV X, 0.08 mm is already enough.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            So we reached a new conclusion: The idea of thermalisation of X in Pb or W might work and it might-might explain E-cat X at the same time, if there is a discrete X-ray emission line somewhere in the range 10-30 keV. Continuation of the 1/E^2 continuum doesn’t work, but a discrete line might. It must be below 30 keV because otherwise it would have been seen in data, on the other hand it must be above approx.10 keV, otherwise absorption in the fuel becomes too severe. – A bit like Fred Hoyle predicting the carbon resonance… no, just kidding.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Nickel full ionisation energy (kind of “maximum” characteristic X-ray energy) is 10.8 keV and its most prominent normal X-ray line is at 7.5 keV.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I have just spoken to bob – he is designing his experiment to ONLY look for X-Rays, and he is going that low.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I can 3D print in cobalt-chromium with walls as thin a 0.7mm fully sealed and good to at least 1397 which is higher than GS 5.2

            http://www.calphad.com/graphs/Co-Cr%20Phase%20Diagram.gif

            cobalt-chromium is not such a good x-ray shield.

          • Mats002

            mouse:
            1h Thermal > x/β- (0-100KeV) emissions thermalised in Lead > IR/THz (via blackbody)

            Cat:
            IR/THz > soft x resonance (7.5KeV) emissions > alpha emitter > I

          • Bob Greenyer

            Now ya thinking!

          • Mats002

            “Radioactive particles that slam into the gold push out a shower of high-energy electrons.”

            https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13545-nanomaterial-turns-radiation-directly-into-electricity

            The difference between Cat and CatX is that the former has a Tungsten layer for thermalization, the latter has Gold. Of course the gold will melt but that is handled by engineering.

            I guess that CatX ‘leaks’ soft x-rays through the Gold layer, and that is why the efficiency is lower.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Possible.

            As I said before – the rest is engineering

          • Eyedoc

            Why Gold ? Is there a special property I am not aware of?

          • Axil Axil

            Dear Bob,

            It is quite possible that your belief in radiation as the source of LENR excess heat is miss guided.

            You may be suffering from the old nuclear engineering meme that has so plagued LENR from its very beginning and has done so much to damage the general perception of LENR over the years.

            The old LENR hand, Piantelli has never expressed this theory of radiation causality involved in the generation of excess heat production and neither has Rossi.

            Radiation is something to be minimized if not completely eliminated.

            Your effort will be better spent in looking for muons coming out of a LENR reactor.

          • malkom700

            We have never assumed, but in my opinion, can not be excluded the possibility that the two technologies, E-Cat, and the E-Cat X compete with each other.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I am not sure why everyone is fixating on that AND wrongly – “The Cookbook is in the Signal” but it is not the main HEAT source, that comes from “+heat from non chemical other” as I clearly stated in my complete formula.

            Please look at the video where I extremely clearly hard coded this into the edit on the 22nd Feb recording.

            https://youtu.be/MtTeHU4vBmc?t=50m25s https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/256a81569fe223dd734e910e3c26605bb4457b90780d97215c81c626ca3a2df3.jpg

            Of course, this is science – so the understanding will make all these things clearer in time, I hope to do that in “The Symphony of the New Fire”

          • Bob Greenyer

            Wait

          • It’s possible I suppose that an intense, rapidly oscillating magnetic field driven by SPPs may be the only significant output of the ecat-x in normal operation. and that this can be harvested either as electricity as heat.

            In the case of electricity production, some components (flat steel wire coils?) would presumably need to be ‘tuned’ to convert the oscillating fields to AC or pulsed DC current by coherent induction, and the device would be thermally insulated to maintain operating temperature and negate any need for active cooling.,

            In the case of heat output, the device might be allowed to run considerably hotter, leading to increased power output and COP, with the field energy resolving as incoherent self induction (eddy currents in the steel plates -> heat, removed by coolant).

            As you say, it seems very probable that hard radiation is a weak by-product that Rossi may have learned to minimise.

          • Remember that Rossi has stated he is generating DC that can be converted to AC if needed: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=34#comment-1143061

          • Missed that. It does rather seem to blow my theory out of the water then!

          • Allan Shura

            Considering 4 years behind the original tell schedule for the home e-cat I will wait and see for possibly an e-cat-y.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Cleaver question, and the answer is almost the same as saying all of the heat in an E-Cat comes from X-Rays.

    You can convert X-Rays to electricity – and if you do it without thermalising them, then you get no excess heat. Replications have been good at achieving the latter.

    http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jpcc.5b07876?journalCode=jpccck

    “Charge Collection Efficiency, CCE, as a function of photon energy is about 75%.” From soft x-rays, below where we would have seen them in bang.

    The other option is alpha voltaic.

    • Rossi did make that reference to Madame Curie.

      • Bob Greenyer

        You are missing the obvious

        X is for X-Ray!

        • Madame Curie did extensive work developing the X-Ray. What did I miss?

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Soft X-rays get absorbed already in the powder. If reaction happens on nickel particle surface, 50% of soft X-rays are emitted into the nickel particle and are absorbed there. If reaction happens inside nickel particle, the situation is even worse. And if there is a thick layer of nickel particles (more than a monolayer), the situation is worse. It sounds like an uphill battle to get high efficiency conversion that way.

      • Bob Greenyer

        But temp feeds the reaction

        You are right though – Soft gets absorbed pretty easily at the low end.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          True, the penetration drops rapidly below 30 keV. For example a 10 keV X-ray attenuates by 62% if moving across just 10 micron layer of copper (a proxy for nickel).

          • Bob Greenyer

            yeh… but, if the XCat can be tuned to a frequency that would let more X out…

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Yes, if there is monoenergetic X-ray emission line somewhere below 30 keV, then conversion might work. Below 30 keV, but above 10 keV, I would say.

            0.4 mm of tungsten takes out 100% of 30 keV X. For 10 keV X, 0.08 mm is already enough.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            So we reached a new conclusion: The idea of thermalisation of X in Pb or W might work and it might-might explain E-cat X at the same time, if there is a discrete X-ray emission line somewhere in the range 10-30 keV. Continuation of the 1/E^2 continuum doesn’t work, but a discrete line might. It must be below 30 keV because otherwise it would have been seen in data, on the other hand it must be above approx.10 keV, otherwise absorption in the fuel becomes too severe. – A bit like Fred Hoyle predicting the carbon resonance… no, just kidding.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Nickel full ionisation energy (kind of “maximum” characteristic X-ray energy) is 10.8 keV and its most prominent normal X-ray line is at 7.5 keV.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I have just spoken to bob – he is designing his experiment to ONLY look for X-Rays, and he is going that low.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I can 3D print in cobalt-chromium with walls as thin a 0.7mm fully sealed and good to at least 1397 which is higher than GS 5.2

            http://www.calphad.com/graphs/Co-Cr%20Phase%20Diagram.gif

            cobalt-chromium is not such a good x-ray shield.

          • Axil Axil

            Dear Bob,

            It is quite possible that your belief in radiation as the source of LENR excess heat is miss guided.

            You may be suffering from the old nuclear engineering meme that has so plagued LENR from its very beginning and has done so much to damage the general perception of LENR over the years.

            The old LENR hand, Piantelli has never expressed this theory of radiation causality involved in the generation of excess heat production and neither has Rossi.

            Rossi has said many times that his reactor design does not now produce radiation. Rossi’s patent does not reference radiation or the need for radiation shielding or radiation thermalization.

            Radiation is something to be minimized if not completely eliminated.

            Your effort will be better spent in looking for muons coming out of a LENR reactor.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I am not sure why everyone is fixating on that AND wrongly – “The Cookbook is in the Signal” but it is not the main HEAT source, that comes from “+heat from non chemical other” as I clearly stated in my complete formula.

            Please look at the video where I extremely clearly hard coded this into the edit on the 22nd Feb recording.

            https://youtu.be/MtTeHU4vBmc?t=50m25s https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/256a81569fe223dd734e910e3c26605bb4457b90780d97215c81c626ca3a2df3.jpg

            Of course, this is science – so the understanding will make all these things clearer in time, I hope to do that in “The Symphony of the New Fire”

          • Bob Greenyer

            Wait

  • Jonnyb

    Great news

  • Jonnyb

    Great news

  • Gerard McEk

    The answer is not as new as it looks in my view. In the past he already revealed that when increasing the electricity, than the heat production goes down. When you do not use the heat and waste it, then clearly efficiency goes down. You can insulate the reactor as I guess heat is needed to produce electricity, but cooling may be required.
    A totally different thought is of Bob, below. But in that case the reactor radiates gammas. Not a pleasant approach in my view. I can’t wait to hear more about this from Andrea.

    • Bob Greenyer

      If it is like Iter – the bulk of the X is 10-30KeV below our detection in GD5.2 but easy to thermalise – however, make the reactor pretty transparent to X – then you have a great source for X to e

      It is called E-Cat X… Ray (Mdm Curie) after all

      • Gerard McEk

        Bob, how do you convert X to e?

        • Bob Greenyer

          There are options – I link one such solution below.

          If a material has the right band gap to have electrons promoted from valance to conduction band by an incident photon, then you can get electricity, the photon could be soft x-rays.

          • Gerard McEk

            Thanks, quite interesting. I hope such complex molecules can survive at high temperatures.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            High temperature survival might be an important issue also for the metal foil approach.

          • Gerard McEk

            I fully agree. That approach seems to me the route AR is following. When you look to AR’s progress on the industrial automation of fuel, laser 3D printing, what Bob also wants to do, might be his approach. You can deposit different thin layers of fuel and metal. I am not sure tungsten can be used for it.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          When losing energy, an X ray quantum kicks electrons preferentially in its moving direction. If one puts a series of thin metal sheets across X-rays, a potential difference develops between the plates. The outermost plate gets the most negative potential because it receives kicked electrons from the inner plates.

          • Gerard McEk

            That seems a better approach than than the complex crystals, below. This may be used by Andrea.

          • Axil Axil

            A few thousand layers of foil/insulator layers are needed

      • Gerard McEk

        “It is called E-Cat X… Ray (Mdm Curie) after all”
        A brilliant thought Bob! I hope you are right.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I beginning to think Rossi can’t lie – optimistic yes – and that often gets people into trouble… Ahem, Cough.

          I can’t see him doing it for no reason

          • Optimism has definitely got Dick Weir in trouble re: EEStor. But he like Rossi will prevail in the end imo.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            A liar often lies even without a reason.

            But I think that Rossi doesn’t lie, because he hasn’t been caught doing it. He has trouble communicating, he’s often misunderstood, he has sometimes been wrong (usually about physics) and sometimes he has also actively misled competitors (or at least Defkalion), but not really lied.

            Like all inventors, Rossi has multiple working modes through which he cycles rapidly and pushes each one forward one step at a time: idea mode, exploration mode, science mode, engineering mode, business mode, etc. Misinterpreting the mode is a major source of misunderstanding him. For example, if he says “E-cat factory” in idea mode, it doesn’t mean that the factory is ready. It means more likely that in Rossi’s mind at the moment, there is no fundamental technical or financial obstacle why such factory couldn’t be built and he would know how to do it. On the other hand, when in business mode, he equips everything with F9 unless completely verified.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Pekka, that is a good and fair analysis

        • Axil Axil

          The question to ask next is as follows: Is the reactor still hot at 1400C and does it still emit light?

      • Yeah, that’s a brilliant thought Bob.

  • There is a company called EcoMotors International that Bill Gates has invested in, that has an opposed-piston opposed-cylinder (opoc®) internal combustion engine that can run on diesel, gasoline, or almost any synthetic liquid or gaseous fuel. They have a very well done video that with a few minor changes could also be used to explain the E-Cat revolution, which will hopefully begin soon. The OPOC engine is supposed to be at least 15% more efficient than current engines, much smaller and lighter, more reliable, and cheaper to build. So, cars could get 50MPG and more without hybrid technology. The video is fun to watch and very apt for Andrea Rossi’s device as well.

    http://ecomotors.com/video

    • Warthog

      Now that is COOL.

    • bachcole

      Ultra-cool. Some of that technology may be used with the E-cat, and some of that thinking will certainly be used with the E-cat.

  • There is a company called EcoMotors International that Bill Gates has invested in. They have an opposed-piston opposed-cylinder (opoc®) internal combustion engine that can run on diesel, gasoline, or almost any synthetic liquid or gaseous fuel. They have a very well done video that with a few minor changes could also be used to explain the E-Cat revolution, which will hopefully begin soon. The OPOC engine is supposed to be at least 15% more efficient than current engines, much smaller and lighter, more reliable, and cheaper to build. So, cars could get 50MPG and more without hybrid technology. The video is fun to watch and very apt for Andrea Rossi’s device as well.

    http://ecomotors.com/video

    • Warthog

      Now that is COOL.

    • bachcole

      Ultra-cool. Some of that technology may be used with the E-cat, and some of that thinking will certainly be used with the E-cat.

    • LesioQ

      A 2-stroker ? These usually get better effeciency, no matter how many pistons per cylinder … smells stone-age’ish here …

  • PappyYokum

    When do we get to see it?

  • PappyYokum

    When do we get to see it?

  • Zephir

    Nice, but this still doesn’t disprove the thermoelectric principle of E-Cat utilization (which A. Rossi is highly accustomed to)

  • Mats002

    mouse:
    1h Thermal > x/β- (0-100KeV) emissions thermalised in Lead > IR/THz (via blackbody)

    Cat:
    IR/THz > soft x resonance (7.5KeV) emissions > alpha emitter > I

    • Bob Greenyer

      Now ya thinking!

      • Mats002

        “Radioactive particles that slam into the gold push out a shower of high-energy electrons.”

        https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13545-nanomaterial-turns-radiation-directly-into-electricity

        The difference between Cat and CatX is that the former has a Tungsten layer for thermalization, the latter has Gold. Of course the gold will melt but that is handled by engineering.

        I guess that CatX ‘leaks’ soft x-rays through the Gold layer, and that is why the efficiency is lower.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Possible.

          As I said before – the rest is engineering

        • Eyedoc

          Why Gold ? Is there a special property I am not aware of?

  • bachcole

    Perhaps as I suggest that poor man has lost his marbles. I hesitate to say such a thing, and I don’t fully embrace it. Perhaps there is a misunderstanding or miscommunication or mistranslation. If this is wrong, then I apologize profusely.

    • Apology accepted.

    • mwr1176

      I often can’t help but wonder if he’s just a very confused old man. If more electricity/lower heat means lower efficiency then how is the energy wasted? In the former of higher heat!! I’ve never heard anything more paradoxical.

      • Axil Axil

        My guess is that there are large numbers of mesons being produced and many of the meson, pions, and muons are escaping from the reactor before they decay into electrons.

        • LCD

          Fits a very simple exchange of words. I don’t think too much can be read into it.

          For example how can the efficiency be lower if it makes 100% electricity?

          • Philip James

            If the conversion of photons to KeV (photo-electric effect “solar” cells are not efficient at the energies proposed) is lower than the efficiency of the Carnot cycle heat (the heating of the lead) to produce work, then it’s easy to see how the efficiency of one is less than that of another.
            See Mats002 below.

  • bachcole

    Perhaps as I suggested the poor man has lost his marbles. I hesitate to say such a thing, and I don’t embrace it. I don’t even believe it. Perhaps there is a misunderstanding or miscommunication or mistranslation or maybe I am just plain vanilla wrong. If this is wrong, then I apologize profusely.

    I hate to think that this is a test of trust and I just flunked it. Loyalist were to all get free tickets to the grand announcement, and I just lost my place in line. (:->)

    • Apology accepted.

    • mwr1176

      I often can’t help but wonder if he’s just a very confused old man. If more electricity/lower heat means lower efficiency then how is the energy wasted? In the former of higher heat!! I’ve never heard anything more paradoxical.

      • Axil Axil

        My guess is that there are large numbers of mesons being produced and many of the meson, pions, and muons are escaping from the reactor before they decay into electrons.

        • mwr1176

          I see. I just don’t understand why Rossi always insists that his technology won’t be used in automobiles for many years to come.

          • Omega Z

            Regulations and years of testing.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Self preservation – and – cars have more accidents than domestic boilers.

            However, with sufficient electric power generation – it could be used by proxy.

          • jimbo92107

            If they generate electricity, they could at least charge up a battery.

          • mwr1176

            Exactly. It just doesn’t seem like it should take decades to figure this out.

          • jimbo92107

            At the same time, Rossi’s type of LENR may not be friendly to being turned OFF after you turn it ON. Could be that it operates best in a continuously activated state. If that is so, then batteries become needed as part of that energy system.

        • LCD

          Fits a very simple exchange of words. I don’t think too much can be read into it.

          For example how can the efficiency be lower if it makes 100% electricity?

          • Philip James

            If the conversion of photons to KeV (photo-electric effect “solar” cells are not efficient at the energies proposed) is lower than the efficiency of the Carnot cycle heat (the heating of the lead) to produce work, then it’s easy to see how the efficiency of one is less than that of another.
            See Mats002 below.

  • Rogerborg

    So you can plug its output into its input and produce infinite energy?

    • Ophelia Rump

      No, it runs on fuel, you have to refuel once every ten months.

  • John

    The Nickel-Hydrogen so called “E-CAT” is a free made available 1994 technology, since Focardi-Piantelli made it open publicly in a conference in Bologne the technology is not patentable, is public domain ! at the time they mentioned Gamma Radiation bursts, see their papers, they talked about Gamma Shielding too, so what we are seeing now with all these news are no patentable things by Rossi or any other individual in this planet, because it is FREE made available technology . The ECAT-X no Heat, is nothing more than a NI-H2 battery, well known and used in the first Hubble telescope before upgrade, they (IH / Rossi) just made it with another disposition… So all this novel by Rossi is deviating researchers about something they could being working together with no worries, and improve the Piantelli system even further. So Please stop saying Rossi is “The guy” because he is not, he just jumped on the back of another inventor. Ni_h2 reaction It’s free ! you can make it, you can build it, you can improve it, you can sell it, because as Piantelli and Focardi mentioned it publicly is not patent able anymore, ask any patent officer or lawyer if you don’t believe me. I asked !

    • Andrew

      You might want to call the patent office and let them know they issued a patent on an unpatentiable.

    • matteo

      So John, I’m guessing you got right down to work, and introduced your device in 1995, using that public knowledge? Or were you just waiting for someone else to use their own money and effort, so you could claim it, without having to do anything. If you are so sure of all this, then do something. Don’t just rattle an alarm and wait for someone else to do your bidding. DO something. Contribute. We can’t wait to see your product. I’ll sign up to be your first customer. We’ll drive coast to coast in the Johnmobile.

    • Private Citizen

      Piantelli did Euro-patent LENR in some form in 1995.

      If this stuff proves real there could be massive patent battles, unfortunately possibly delaying implementation.

      Your argument is interesting. Someone may try to use the public domain angle.

      • John

        My organization (europe) is working since 1994 on Piantelli disclosure of his invention. We are the ones that will put our products on the market (of course totally different design) BUT some of our products are NI-H2 based on the premisses of public domain given by Piantelli, we simply don’t care about Andrea Rossi, our products will enter direct competition with him at some point, we asked already European patent offices, the core of this technology is free, public domain, anyone can make anything based on 1994 Piantelli/Focardi disclosure, if Andrea Rossi tries to fight is just a matter of document presentation and to show them that Andrea Rossi, started his path on the back of the same setup and developed even further, BUT, he or IH or anyone else will be blocked on their intent of control the market. They know it already ! Worst, the same wires that heat the system to 400 degrees to start the reaction are the ones who collect electrical energy and this is also disclosed further in 1995 documents. FREE PUBLIC DOMAIN TECHNOLOGY ! Time will come when government and companies will fight, but this will not delay the implementation of technology, some governments will reclaim public domain of it at first… We are well aware of this

  • Ophelia Rump

    No, it runs on fuel, you have to refuel once every ten months.

  • Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Rossi already win a legal battle with Piantelli when Piantelli tried to add nickel dust to his LENR patent? I believe the court sided with Rossi and said Piantelli could not alter his patent to steal Rossi’s idea.

  • Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Rossi already win a legal battle with Piantelli when Piantelli tried to add nickel dust to his LENR patent? I believe the court sided with Rossi and said Piantelli could not alter his patent to steal Rossi’s idea.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    I’ve said this all before in ECW. I don’t know if this will
    help us understand what’s going on but to summarize:

    It seems to me that the x-rays are from bremsstrahlung (braking radiation)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremsstrahlung
    from the delta-rays (the high energy electrons) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_ray
    that are knocked out of atoms from the 8.6 MeV alphas from this reaction.

    Li-7 + p > Be-8 > 1 He-4. 17.3 MeV.
    http://image.slidesharecdn.com/basicsofradiationandproductionofx-rays-140214075149-phpapp01/95/basics-of-radiation-and-production-of-x-rays-46-638.jpg?cb=1392364731

    • Bob Greenyer

      Yep

      • LCD

        There is no way a p gets into Li without a good explanation though right? So…

        • Bob Greenyer

          Explanations are coming

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Pardon me, two He
      Li-7 + p > Be-8 > 2 He-4. 17.3 MeV

    • Axil Axil

      Neither the pattern of radiation from the MFPM test nor the radiation pattern from the Defkalion paper conform to any type of radiation cased by electrons,

      • Alan DeAngelis

        I remember Rossi mentioned that there were 100 KeV
        electrons.

    • LCD

      The reaction, whatever it is, probably will not be that easy. In my estimation there is some slightly new phenomena, like a quasi particle that has not yet revealed itself. The radiation pattern is odd.

      Actually the widom and Larsen concept (in part) doesn’t seem as far fetched. But the starting energy is still an issue (maybe resonance explains it) and the low radiation levels are still wierd ( even with alphas only secondary radiation isn’t occurring at levels expected).

  • Alan DeAngelis

    I’ve said this all before in ECW. I don’t know if this will
    help us understand what’s going on but to summarize:

    It seems to me that the x-rays are from bremsstrahlung (braking radiation)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremsstrahlung
    from the delta-rays (the high energy electrons) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_ray
    that are knocked out of atoms from the 8.6 MeV alphas from this reaction.

    Li-7 + p > Be-8 > 1 He-4. 17.3 MeV.
    http://image.slidesharecdn.com/basicsofradiationandproductionofx-rays-140214075149-phpapp01/95/basics-of-radiation-and-production-of-x-rays-46-638.jpg?cb=1392364731

    • Bob Greenyer

      Yep

      • LCD

        There is no way a p gets into Li without a good explanation though right? So…

        • Bob Greenyer

          Explanations are coming

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Pardon me, two He
      Li-7 + p > Be-8 > 2 He-4. 17.3 MeV

    • Axil Axil

      Neither the pattern of radiation from the MFMP test nor the radiation pattern from the Defkalion paper conform to any type of radiation cased by electrons,

      • Alan DeAngelis

        I remember Rossi mentioned that there were 100 KeV
        electrons.

    • LCD

      The reaction, whatever it is, probably will not be that easy. In my estimation there is some slightly new phenomena, like a quasi particle that has not yet revealed itself. The radiation pattern is odd.

      Actually the widom and Larsen concept (in part) doesn’t seem as far fetched. But the starting energy is still an issue (maybe resonance explains it) and the low radiation levels are still wierd ( even with alphas only secondary radiation isn’t occurring at levels expected).

  • Bob Greenyer

    I made a 3D printable (in metal) reactor concept to help me talk through the first segment of “The Symphony of The New Fire” – designed for maximum X-Rays.

    When I have refined it a little (for weld position) I’ll post the STL – Copy Left Creative Commons license.

    It would need pre-processed fuel and skilled welding – ideally laser.

    The heater element is off the shelf.

    Designed for a K05-2230 element from here: http://goo.gl/5w8Xbt

  • Bob Greenyer

    I made a 3D printable (in metal) reactor concept to help me talk through the first segment of “The Symphony of The New Fire” – designed for maximum X-Rays.

    When I have refined it a little (for weld position) I’ll post the STL – Copy Left Creative Commons license.

    It would need pre-processed fuel and skilled welding – ideally laser.

    The heater element is off the shelf.

    Designed for a K05-2230 element from here: http://goo.gl/5w8Xbt

    The 2 parts for 45 reactors could be printed on one 20x20cm laser bed (smaller type) operator would be needed at beginning and end.

  • bfast

    Electricity and no heat! Wow! Getting rid of unwanted heat has always been an engineering pain. I would love to see the power curve on this thing. How much electricity can be produced if heat is at zero (or near zero)? Is it worth wasting/radiating heat to get higher electrical output? So many questions, so few details.

    • Bob Greenyer

      It’ll still need to be hot.

    • Anon2012_2014

      Show me the Car-Fax!

      Rossi is an inventor and an engineer, but there is no evidence here.

      Electricity without heat has to be relative, i.e. we can produce 90% electricity and only 10% heat. Heat always leaks out in some amount. Nothing is perfectly efficient.

      • Axil Axil

        Yes, It’ll still need to be hot.

      • guitarwebs

        The atom?

    • bfast

      Even if it has to be hot, Rossi is only telling the truth if heat doesn’t have to be dissipated. If we don’t need cooling fins, radiators, etc., only insulation, this is fantastic!

  • Lux Terrea

    Somebody is going to turn this old balsa wood biplane into a state of the art fighter jet in due course.

    • bfast

      Yup. What Rossi has right now will be seen as a balsa wood biplane in a few decades. This thing is bigger than the internet, every bit as big as the industrial revolution.

      • Bob Greenyer

        It has the potential to make the wheel (transport) and fire redundant and allow us to colonise the stars and terraform worlds – what could be bigger than that?

        • MasterBlaster7

          A pill that would let me eat cheeseburgers all day and lose weight.

  • Lux Terrea

    Somebody is going to turn this old balsa wood biplane into a state of the art fighter jet in due course.

    • bfast

      Yup. What Rossi has right now will be seen as a balsa wood biplane in a few decades. This thing is bigger than the internet, every bit as big as the industrial revolution.

      • Bob Greenyer

        It has the potential to make the wheel (transport) and fire redundant and allow us to colonise the stars and terraform worlds – what could be bigger than that?

        • MasterBlaster7

          A pill that would let me eat cheeseburgers all day and lose weight.

  • Zeddicus23

    If I remember correctly, Rossi stated several times that special materials that can withstand high-temperatures were developed for the Ecat-X. He also stated that the thermoelectric effect is not used which is not surprising since it is known that the efficiency is very low. This suggests that high-temperatures are needed in the core to enhance electricity production, although perhaps the recent advances he mentioned have changed this. Also, while I expect that electricity production is related to charged particle production or emission, it seems unlikely that X-rays/gamma rays would lead to this effect. More likely they are just a by-product of the main reaction.

    • It’s possible I suppose that an intense, rapidly oscillating electromagnetic field driven by SPPs may be the only significant power output of the ecat-x in normal operation. and that this energy can be harvested either as electricity or as heat. To explain the way this seems to work it would be necessary to assume that at lower power levels a resonance effect might allow coherent standing waves to arise in an electron cloud that result in one or more dominant frequencies of oscillation, while at higher power levels overall coherence is lost, and/or frequency of oscillation becomes extreme.

      In the case of electricity production, some components (flat steel wire coils?) would presumably need to be ‘tuned’ to convert the coherent, relatively slowly oscillating fields to AC or pulsed DC current by induction. The device would be thermally insulated to maintain operating temperature and remove any need for active cooling.,

      In the case of heat output, the device might be allowed to run considerably hotter, leading to increased power output and COP, but at the cost of either coherence in the field frequencies, or the frequency going too high to capture using ‘coherent’ induction. In either case, the field energy would resolve either as incoherent self induction (eddy currents in the steel plates -> heat), or as microwave/THz heating of a solid dielectric material built into or surrounding the reactors for the purpose (or both).

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_heating

      As you say, it seems very probable that hard radiation is a weak by-product that Rossi may have learned to minimise.

    • Bob Greenyer

      By product of several aspects of the reaction.

      You are on the right line with heat dependence

      • Axil Axil

        The heat emmited by the E-Cat can be reduced if the temperature that the E-Cat operates at is increased

        Wien’s Law
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__x4IjPQnro

        If the E-cat can operate at very high temperatures, then visible light can drive the reaction instead of heat. The heat produced by the E-Cat can be minimized is the E-Cat can run at very high temperatures.

        Eliminating the production of heat as Holmlid has done by using a green light produced by a laser implies that his reaction runs at a temperature that equals that of the Sun.

        Rossi may have invented a plasma based system confined by a very high melting point material.

        • DrD

          Difficult to see how he can reach 100% Electric though. I think he denied that in a post a few weeks ago. Maybe it’s a simplification, meaning almost 100%.

  • Andrew

    You might want to call the patent office and let them know they issued a patent on an unpatentiable.

  • MasterBlaster7

    I think I just heard a microphone hit the floor.

  • MasterBlaster7

    I think I just heard a microphone hit the floor.

  • matteo

    So John, I’m guessing you got right down to work, and introduced your device in 1995, using that public knowledge? Or were you just waiting for someone else to use their own money and effort, so you could claim it, without having to do anything. If you are so sure of all this, then do something. Don’t just rattle an alarm and wait for someone else to do your bidding. DO something. Contribute. We can’t wait to see your product. I’ll sign up to be your first customer. We’ll drive coast to coast in the Johnmobile.

  • hunfgerh

    Only nuclear reactions (e.g. CF) have a COP > 1.
    All other conversions have a COP < 1.

    • fritz194

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance
      The traditional “COP” notation is used to specify the power ratio for heat pumps.
      This gives the ration between electric input and thermal heat/cooling performance.
      In this case the thermal ambient energy is meant to be “for free”.

      In this case there will be an unsused heat-byproduct which decimates the “COP” in terms of electrical in – to electrical out.

      • DrD

        COP has always been power out over power in. COP definition for LENR is no different to heat pump definition. Both electric and heat in and out must be included.

    • DrD

      Except heat pumps. They are old, off the shelf, technology and achieve 2, 3 or 4, all depends on the hot cold body temperature difference your demanding. Obviously they do not create energy from mass, they simply pump energy (heat). They’re also bulky but for heating only purposes you need to do better than this.

  • hunfgerh

    Only nuclear reactions (e.g. CF) have a COP > 1.
    All other conversions have a COP < 1.

    • fritz194

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance
      The traditional “COP” notation is used to specify the power ratio for heat pumps.
      This gives the ration between electric input and thermal heat/cooling performance.
      In this case the thermal ambient energy is meant to be “for free”.

      In this case there will be an unsused heat-byproduct which decimates the “COP” in terms of electrical in – to electrical out.

      • DrD

        COP has always been power out over power in. COP definition for LENR is no different to heat pump definition. Both electric and heat in and out must be included.

        • Wholewitt

          I don’t think heat pumps can be considered since that is simply transferring heat from one area to another. In that case an open window in winter does a great job though it goes in the wrong direction.

    • DrD

      Except heat pumps. They are old, off the shelf, technology and achieve 2, 3 or 4, all depends on the hot cold body temperature difference your demanding. Obviously they do not create energy from mass, they simply pump energy (heat). They’re also bulky but for heating only purposes you need to do better than this.

  • Pixelblot

    Excuse my ignorance but does this share any similarities to Focus Fusion’s efforts to create electricity directly by converting x-rays from plasma toroid discharges? I think it’s called aneutronic fusion and they use boron + hydrogen. Maybe the only similarity was the direct conversion of x-rays to electricity using a layered shell encapsulating the reaction or pulses. It looked very interesting and was small scale..well smaller than a tokamak for sure.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Boron + Hydrogen is “easier” – until this.

      7Li + 1H is higher yield aneutronic fusion

    • Axil Axil

      IMHO, LENR destabilizes protons and neutrons which produce sub-atomic particles(mesons) and all kinds of gainful nuclear reaction without neutrons.

  • Pixelblot

    Excuse my ignorance but does this share any similarities to Focus Fusion’s efforts to create electricity directly by converting x-rays from plasma toroid discharges? I think it’s called aneutronic fusion and they use boron + hydrogen. Maybe the only similarity was the direct conversion of x-rays to electricity using a layered shell encapsulating the reaction or pulses. It looked very interesting and was small scale..well smaller than a tokamak for sure.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Boron + Hydrogen is “easier” – until this.

      7Li + 1H is higher yield aneutronic fusion

    • Axil Axil

      IMHO, LENR destabilizes protons and neutrons which produce sub-atomic particles(mesons) and all kinds of gainful nuclear reaction without neutrons.

  • georgehants

    Very interesting and in approx 17 days if Mr. Rossi (IH) come across with indisputable conformation of a basic E-cat breakthrough in line with all his announcements then these things will become important, for now they are just more Rossi says.
    If the advances are all True then imagine where Cold Fusion would be now, if first the scientific community where not completely corrupt and incompetent 30 years ago on the subject and secondly if Mr. Rossi had released the secret 5 years ago.
    It is sad to watch humanity in action and the number of people who just except the logically irrationality of the system.
    If people where to imagine running their own households in such a way, with the Father being happy that he can afford drugs, clean water, food etc. for himself and quite happy to justify that his children cannot and profits for the rich must come first, then a little sanity may prevail, but if the media tell people that’s how they should think then 95% would clearly obey and spend their lives justifying their actions on Websites etc.

    • f sedei

      Corruptness becomes so blatant and overwhelming that ordinary people feel helpless and give up. The condition does not seem to be getting any better.

      • The Rossi Says parade is now many blocks ahead of corroboration and confirmation.

        If the stuff he is saying is true, just… wow.

        This has happened before when Rossi was talking about have partnered with a significant US company and also about an independent test being underway. Both of these things eventually emerged as true, even if some of the details turned out to be less than hoped.

        Now we have MFMP on the verge of once and for all proving E-Cat flavored LENR is real and a pending F9 report on the 1 MW plant.

        Fingers crossed for a very, very, very positive March.

        • jimbo92107

          If they generate electricity, they could at least charge up a battery.

          • mwr1176

            Exactly. It just doesn’t seem like it should take decades to figure this out.

          • jimbo92107

            At the same time, Rossi’s type of LENR may not be friendly to being turned OFF after you turn it ON. Could be that it operates best in a continuously activated state. If that is so, then batteries become needed as part of that energy system.

  • georgehants

    Very interesting and in approx 17 days if Mr. Rossi (IH) comes across with indisputable conformation of a basic E-cat breakthrough in line with all his announcements then these things will become important, for now they are just more Rossi says.
    If the advances are all True then imagine where Cold Fusion would be now, if first the scientific community where not completely corrupt and incompetent 30 years ago and since on the subject and secondly if Mr. Rossi had released the secret 5 years ago.
    It is sad to watch humanity in action and the number of people who just except the logically irrationality of the system.
    If people where to imagine running their own households in such a way, with the Father being happy that he can afford drugs, clean water, food etc. for himself and quite happy to justify that his children cannot and profits for the rich must come first, then a little sanity may prevail, but if the media tell people that’s how they should think then 95% would clearly obey and spend their lives justifying their actions on Websites etc.

    • f sedei

      Corruptness becomes so blatant and overwhelming that ordinary people feel helpless and give up. The condition does not seem to be getting any better.

    • Alberonn

      or as George W. Bush once blatantly said : “Money Trumps Peace” nb. even before recent political developments :<)((

  • malkom700

    We have never assumed, but in my opinion, can not be excluded the possibility that the two technologies, E-Cat, and the E-Cat X compete with each other.

  • Bob Greenyer

    By product of several aspects of the reaction.

    You are on the right line with heat dependence

    • Axil Axil

      The heat emmited by the E-Cat can be reduced if the temperature that the E-Cat operates at is increased

      Wien’s Law
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__x4IjPQnro

      If the E-cat can operate at very high temperatures, then visible light can drive the reaction instead of heat. The heat produced by the E-Cat can be minimized is the E-Cat can run at very high temperatures.

      Eliminating the production of heat as Holmlid has done by using a green light produced by a laser implies that his reaction runs at a temperature that equals that of the Sun.

      Rossi may have invented a plasma based system confined by a very high melting point material.

      • DrD

        Difficult to see how he can reach 100% Electric though. I think he denied that in a post a few weeks ago. Maybe it’s a simplification, meaning almost 100%.

  • OT: Andrés Ruzo (!) has discovered a huge source of heat energy: https://www.ted.com/talks/andres_ruzo_how_i_found_a_mythical_boiling_river_in_the_amazon

    • Gerrit

      He even talks about a giant snake (serpent) !

      • artefact

        History keeps on repeating itself!

  • OT: Andrés Ruzo (!) has discovered a huge source of heat energy: https://www.ted.com/talks/andres_ruzo_how_i_found_a_mythical_boiling_river_in_the_amazon

    • Gerrit

      He even talks about a giant snake (serpent) !

      • artefact

        History keeps on repeating itself!

  • Omega Z

    Regulations and years of testing.

  • BillH

    My laptop’s DC transformer outputs 19V@ 2.4A replace this with a cigarette size E-Cat X pack for $100 say and a $20 refuel for a year and you have a laptop that can be taken anywhere and never needs recharging. I can but dream….

    • Our laptops will come with E-Cats sized/packaged such that they will not need to be refueled for the life of the laptop (when it’s recycled).

      • MasterBlaster7

        All of this without a solid theory of LENR. Just think of what might be possible if we ever figure out what is going on.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          And the Power in the right or wrong hands.

    • JiW

      Nah, laptops are boring. I dream of laser weapons!

      “Given today’s technology, it is difficult to generate (and re-generate) enough electric power to engage and to destroy large targets, especially if they are heavily protected. Power generation is the first major technological obstacle that industry will have to solve if lasers are ever to become operationally effective weapons.”
      http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/159975/2015-ushers-in-era-of-laser-weapons.html

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0DbgNju2wE

      • Roland

        An airborne laser with a 12megawatt capacity and a 2,000 independently controlled mirror aiming device, to overcome atmospheric distortion, was successfully tested over 12 years ago.

        The platform was a 400ton cargo lift capacity aircraft purpose built by Boeing; the lift capacity being primarily dedicated to the binary chemical based energy system and reservoir tanks for the chemistry. The three full rotation crew lived aboard and the craft was refuelled on station so that it was operational on station for days at a time.

        The laser had an effective horizontal range of 200 miles and successfully ‘killed’ every missile that was targeted; a 100% kill ratio against both missiles and aircraft in multi engagement scenarios was expected till the chemistry ran out.

        That the US Navy is now touting 100,000W close defence lasers as a bleeding edge weapons system seems ludicrous in light of a fully operational system with 100 times that power that got shelved for political reasons cause the lavishly funded anti-missile missile faction won out.

        The strategic potential of the system would, for example, allow three platforms to completely illuminate any possibility of a North Korean missile launch without ever leaving international airspace.

        • Roland

          completely eliminate any…

          • LarryJ

            If you are logged in you can edit your original post

        • Warthog

          I think you will find that the Navy system is not a chemical laser. You can afford to use such a device on a plane, as you can dump the toxic chemical laser drive gas reaction products “overboard” and rapidly leave them behind. “Not so much” on a ship.

      • BillH

        Laser weapons may never be practical given that the mirror was invented first, hehe, just as well.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Self preservation – and – cars have more accidents than domestic boilers.

    However, with sufficient electric power generation – it could be used by proxy.

  • JohnOman

    Our laptops will come with E-Cats sized/packaged such that they will not need to be refueled for the life of the laptop (when it’s recycled).

    • MasterBlaster7

      All of this without a solid theory of LENR. Just think of what might be possible if we ever figure out what is going on.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        And the Power in the right or wrong hands.

  • JiW

    Nah, laptops are boring. I dream of laser weapons!

    “Given today’s technology, it is difficult to generate (and re-generate) enough electric power to engage and to destroy large targets, especially if they are heavily protected. Power generation is the first major technological obstacle that industry will have to solve if lasers are ever to become operationally effective weapons.”
    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/159975/2015-ushers-in-era-of-laser-weapons.html

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0DbgNju2wE

    • radvar

      Skylink = Robots with lasers backed by AI
      Brought to you by Out of Control Technology Inc.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVlhMGQgDkY

      • jimbo92107

        I can hardly wait for a LENR powered robot to be stumbling through the woods for a year at a time…

    • Roland

      An airborne laser with a 12megawatt capacity and a 2,000 independently controlled mirror aiming device, to overcome atmospheric distortion, was successfully tested over 12 years ago.

      The platform was a 400ton cargo lift capacity aircraft purpose built by Boeing; the lift capacity being primarily dedicated to the binary chemical based energy system and reservoir tanks for the chemistry. The three full rotation crew lived aboard and the craft was refuelled on station so that it was operational on station for days at a time.

      The laser had an effective horizontal range of 200 miles and successfully ‘killed’ every missile that was targeted; a 100% kill ratio against both missiles and aircraft in multi engagement scenarios was expected till the chemistry ran out.

      That the US Navy is now touting 100,000W close defence lasers as a bleeding edge weapons system seems ludicrous in light of a fully operational system with 100 times that power that got shelved for political reasons cause the lavishly funded anti-missile missile faction won out.

      The strategic potential of the system would, for example, allow three platforms to completely illuminate any possibility of a North Korean missile launch without ever leaving international airspace.

      • Roland

        completely eliminate any…

        • LarryJ

          If you are logged in you can edit your original post

      • Warthog

        I think you will find that the Navy system is not a chemical laser. You can afford to use such a device on a plane, as you can dump the toxic chemical laser drive gas reaction products “overboard” and rapidly leave them behind. “Not so much” on a ship.

    • BillH

      Laser weapons may never be practical given that the mirror was invented first, hehe, just as well.

  • The Rossi Says parade is now many blocks ahead of corroboration and confirmation.

    If the stuff he is saying is true, just… wow.

    This has happened before when Rossi was talking about having partnered with a significant US company and also about an independent test being underway. Both of these things eventually emerged as true, even if some of the details turned out to be less than hoped.

    Now we have MFMP on the verge of once and for all proving E-Cat flavored LENR is real and a pending F9 report on the 1 MW plant.

    Fingers crossed for a very, very, very positive March.

  • Private Citizen

    Piantelli did Euro-patent LENR in some form in 1995.

    If this stuff proves real there could be massive patent battles, unfortunately possibly delaying implementation.

    Your argument is interesting. Someone may try to use the public domain angle.

    • John

      My organization (europe) is working since 1994 on Piantelli disclosure of his invention. We are the ones that will put our products on the market (of course totally different design) BUT some of our products are NI-H2 based on the premisses of public domain given by Piantelli, we simply don’t care about Andrea Rossi, our products will enter direct competition with him at some point, we asked already European patent offices, the core of this technology is free, public domain, anyone can make anything based on 1994 Piantelli/Focardi disclosure, if Andrea Rossi tries to fight is just a matter of document presentation and to show them that Andrea Rossi, started his path on the back of the same setup and developed even further, BUT, he or IH or anyone else will be blocked on their intent of control the market. They know it already ! Worst, the same wires that heat the system to 400 degrees to start the reaction are the ones who collect electrical energy and this is also disclosed further in 1995 documents. FREE PUBLIC DOMAIN TECHNOLOGY ! Time will come when government and companies will fight, but this will not delay the implementation of technology, some governments will reclaim public domain of it at first… We are well aware of this

  • Steven Irizarry

    a means for spaceships to cost 10 dollars a pound and a spaceship that can maintain 1g velocity for one year is far more economically valuable than anything those politicians can come up with…and lenr will enable those technologies if it works as hyped

  • Allan Shura

    Considering 4 years behind the original tell schedule for the home e-cat I will wait and see for possibly an e-cat-y.

  • jimbo92107

    As I was attempting to read the Lundin/Lidgren report, I noted that they mentioned how spallation from neutron donors was greatly enhanced by combining thermal radiation with their secret sauce of vibrational energy. Maybe this implies that Rossi’s e-cat x eschews the heating element and just uses some kind of resonator to induce neutron spallation –> capture. That would explain Rossi’s comment that the smaller x unit wasn’t as efficient has the hot cat. I’m okay with a little less efficiency. Who wants a phone battery that burns through your pocket?

  • jimbo92107

    As I was attempting to read the Lundin/Lidgren report, I noted that they mentioned how spallation from neutron donors was greatly enhanced by combining thermal radiation with their secret sauce of vibrational energy. Maybe this implies that Rossi’s e-cat x eschews the heating element and just uses some kind of resonator to induce neutron spallation –> capture. That would explain Rossi’s comment that the smaller x unit wasn’t as efficient has the hot cat. I’m okay with a little less efficiency. Who wants a phone battery that burns through your pocket?