New Songsheng Jiang LENR Tests: Excess Heat for 7 days (Update — New Chinese Replication Announced)

Thanks to Barty for posting about new reports that have been published on a Chinese site by Songsheng Jiang, an LENR researcher who has previously published a report about generating excess heat from a nickel-hydrogen system.

UPDATE #2 (Mar 2, 2016): Thanks to Barty for reporting on the LENR Forum that Zhang Hansheng, of the China Institute of Atomic Energy (working under the direction of Songsheng Jiang) has achieved successful replication.

The link is here: https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/news/index.php/News/112-Zhang-Hangcheng-reports-replication-of-Songsheng-experiment-done-in-January-2016/

Here’s an image from the original article in Chinese

songshengrep

UPDATE #1: An English translation of this paper has been publishe by Bob Higgins (thank you Bob!) is now available:

http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/AnomalousHeat_Jiang_2015_English.pdf

AlainCo has posted links to the report on the LENR-Forum here: https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/news/index.php/News/111-Pr-Songsheng-Jiang-publish-a-report-on-newer-experiments-done-in-December-2015/ and questions for Songsheng can be posted on that thread.

The original reports are found in Chinese here.

Below is the abstract in English, plus one image from the report with English annotations and explanations.

This paper reports a result of anomalous heat generation in hydrogen-loaded metals at temperature below 1300 °C. The heat was produced in the fuel sample (mixture of nickel powder and LiAlH4), which was filled a nickel cell, and then the cell was placed in a sealed stainless-steel chamber. The results of two runs are demonstrated. Excess heat lasted for seven days in the first run. The maximum excess heat power was produced more than 450 W. The excess heat was evaluated to be 78 MJ for the first 72 hours. In the second run, excess heat lasted for 120 minutes after external heating power turning off, and the maximum heat power was ~450 W. The self sustaining effect can be observed clearly when power off in the second run. The maximum heat energy from possible chemical reaction was estimated to be 26 kJ, a value much smaller than the excess heat. Therefore, excess heat could not originate from any chemical reactions and it might originate from some nuclear reactions.songsheng2016Fig. 2. Variations of T1, T2 temperature, power voltage and pressure in the chamber versus time in first run. Excess heat onset at T2 temperature of 1050 0C, and then T2 temperature increased rapidly to above 1300 0 C and exceeded T1 temperature more than 300 0C. Excess heat lasted seven days before T2 destroyed.

UPDATE: I just realized there is a second image for the test done in November:

songsheng20162

  • Ged

    That’s a very low (suspiciously so) self sustaining temperature.

    • artefact

      Maybe just a small part of the fuel continued the reaction. And that part was not near the temperature sensor.

      • Ged

        That is possible. It isn’t an impossibly low temperature, just that previous experience usually only sees signal from 500C up. As Bib pointed out, the temp here is still above the lithium melting point, and cooling may be different from the initial heating for how the reaction responds.

        But it still sets off red flags to me, for now, unless repeated.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Not is a vacuum it isn’t I have already in a long post said that the effect should be observable from 250ºC and conceivably to the melting point of Lithium… The most critical part is LiH

      • artefact

        Could you elaborate on the vacuum part?

      • Svein

        Melting point of Lithium is 180 degreed C? Could it be boiling point of Lithium, or melting pont of Ni?

        • Bob Greenyer

          It is getting Molten Lithium – in an H2 atmosphere – this forms Lithium Hydride – which is ionic – the H becomes H- which is critical to the process.

          • Svein

            OK LiH
            Properties

            Chemical formula

            LiH

            Molar mass
            7.95 g/mol

            Appearance
            colorless to gray solid[1]

            Density
            0.78 g/cm3[1]

            Melting point
            688.7 °C (1,271.7 °F; 961.9 K)[1]

            Boiling point
            decomposes at 900–1000 °C[2]So it could be up till melting pont of LiH or 688 °C

          • Bob Greenyer

            You want to melt the Li onto the Nickel first before adding the H2

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Where did you get this from? I thought that H2 starts to get released at much lower temp than Li separates from LiH and makes LiAl liquid.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It does – I am talking about if you have free Lithium – it is desirable to do this.

            Ok – I will keep the answers for the main Symphony Document – as things will get lost here

  • SG

    “the cell was placed in a sealed stainless-steel chamber”

    Parkhomov also would place his cell in a stainless-steel chamber. Has MFMP also done this in their experiments? Could the stainless-steel be absorbing, thermalizing, and/or reflecting infrared radiation? Could this be why Parkhomov and Songsheng Jiang have observed excess heat more readily than MFMP?

    • artefact

      They plan to place it into something at a next small test.
      After that, the next big test planned is the replication of cell 5.2 is in April but without a chamber (replication). Maybe at the end of the test.

      Bob Greenyer wrote on QH: “the next experiments will be so tooled up it will look like a NASA science exhibition.”

      • SG

        Next tests will be interesting. I think all are hot on the trail now.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Just got off the phone to Arik Boher – they are ready to go. They had missed several of the most Crucial steps – now they won’t – this’ll be all over by dinnertime …. or thereabouts.

          • Mats002

            Who is AB?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Head of Skinner

          • What do you mean by “all over by dinnertime”?

            SKINR is starting a replication attempt today and expect to have news?

          • Bob Greenyer

            hahah – no – it is a phrase meaning that the main job is nearly done – don’t take it too literally.

          • Thanks. I’m going to have start factoring in your flair for the dramatic from now on.

          • Bob Greenyer

            you should be in one of our meetings!

    • Axil Axil

      The reactor must be magnetically shielded to keep the Hydrogen Rydberg Matter(HRM) from escaping the reactor. If the stainless is magnetic, it will confine the HRM inside the reactor, if it is not magnetic, it will not confine the HRM, and it will be lost.

  • AdrianAshfield

    Bob Greenyer,
    I remember Rossi saying in the the very early days he had replaced an internal Tungsten wire heater with something else – and it didn’t “work as well.”
    At the time I speculated it could be the Tungsten disassociating H2, but now it looks like something else. Perhaps that was when Rossi discovered something.

  • MaryYugo just received and published the DOE Leonardo thermoelectic element report he requested a few months ago

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2291-FOIA-Request-of-the-Munson-report-about-Rossi-s-thermoelectric-claims/?postID=14560#post14560

  • Obvious

    TC over heated again. Excess only after TC gets overheated.
    I hope he can get the posited reaction heat below the failure point of the TC next time. Or a more suitable TC.

    • Obvious

      The second graph is weird, with the TC dropping out before the big event. That happened last report, also.
      I guess he is replicating himself…

  • Obvious

    The melting point of a Type K TC is about 1400°C
    After that, all bets are off.

  • psi2u2

    Very interesting finding.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    Yes, if kilowatts of power come as X-rays, their energy must be significantly less than 100 keV. Which is consistent with what MFMP saw.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    I should have said “not inconsistent”.

    In any case, one must wait until MFMP repeats the experiment with at least one additional independent detector. Until then there can be legitimate doubts of measurement error.

    • Bob Matulis

      I agree that a successful replication is critical and would be a defining moment.
      The recent success has proved to MFMP that the Rossi effect is real. Those directly involved have seen first hand very compelling evidence that the claims are true.
      A successful replication will ultimately lead to the world seeing that the claims are true. 1) It will erase all remaining doubt for MFMP and those (like myself) that follow its work and 2) it will set the stage for independent replications.
      I dream of a day where LENR demonstrations are standard college entry level Chemistry/physics courses. Right now I “believe” something real is happening. MFMP “knows” something is happening. The end game is for the science community at large “knowing” it is real and that can only happen with replication.

  • Gerrit

    I do not understand Fig 3. How can T1 keep dropping after power off, while T2 is supposed constant at 1300°C. To me it seems that T2 was no longer reliable.

    In Fig 2, the correlation between T1 and T2 makes more sense to me.

    • LCD

      That’s the upper limit, not constant.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Implications of Signal 2, Seeing into the SunCell with X-Ray Eyes…

    Ag + H2O + Current > UV/EUV/X-Rays down converted by Ag > Current

    MFMP video walkthrough coming

  • Pekka Janhunen

    I haven’t looked at it in detail myself, but I have read on Vortex Jed Rothwell’s analysis and he was rather critical. It could be real, but it can also be a measurement error caused by overheated thermocouple.

  • Warthog

    “….has a nasty little tendency to leak under pressure.

    At elevated temperatures (which, of course, this is). At room temperature, not so much.

  • http://WWW.LOOKINGFORHEAT.COM (Alan Smith et al.) is now live.

    Roll up! Roll up! Get your cold fusion kits ‘ere – no need to wait for Songsheng Jiang to do it for you!

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Lol, I pressed “Chemicals” and got PayPal for WooCommerce requires WooCommerce version 2.1 or higher…. Must confess that I never heard of WooCommerce s/w. Looks a bit beta, but first day is always first day.

      • Yes, it’s usually the day you find out that the site that displays and works perfectly on your PC looks like a 12-year-old’s efforts and has 50% functionality at best, on anyone else’s machine.

        WooCommerce is a free WordPress ‘shop’ theme. It’s been going for a while but is still quite ‘buggy’.

        • Alan – It’s at ver. 2.5.3 now – you need to update!

          • Pekka Janhunen

            It works for me also, now. It seems he’s actively editing the site.

  • Gerard McEk

    It would be nice if the Songshen Jiang et.al. would install more than one thermocouple and of higher temperature range at the T2 location. That would make their test more convincing. Nevertheless, it looks promissing, I hope they continue.

  • Obvious

    Convincing SSM here would need to explain how the outside of the reaction chamber is over 1372 °C [1300?] (T1), for much of two hours, without heating the cylinder (T2), and yet the cylinder (T2), surrounded by or “under” heating coils) can heat the reaction chamber (T1).
    T2 closely follows T1 until T1 drops a bunch.
    After that, the TCs are totally decoupled.
    (November test).

    It looks like that even if the reaction chamber does get hot by a reaction, you can’t get any heat out of it.

    And it all starts just after the T1 gets clipped at 1300°C/1372°C

    • LCD

      This continues to be a question we all ask, even for Rossi. Possibly MFMPs hypothesis is correct.

      • Obvious

        Rossi’s SSM actually (apparently) heats the device and delivers power. This one does not.
        Heat is power, or energy. Heat can do work.
        Temperature is not the same as power.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsJFdOJMXrM

    • most difficult to understand is the real but modest heating of T4, compared to T1…

      Experts are afraid T1 is incoherent because of hot H2.

      considering T2 and T4, there Jed sees just a tiny phase where temperature decay is slowed.
      It could be chemical only.

  • LCD

    Good point but would you not expect the T2 curve to be proportional then. And how would low temp excess heat be explained.

    Maybe a faulty thermocouple could be a complementary explanation.

  • LCD

    He might have excess heat once but because the thermocouple hits the upper limit, the rest of the data may corrupted including any SSM.

    Run it again with a higher temp thermocouple or corroborate T2 data with something else

    • LCD

      That’s fig 2 but fig 3 makes a stronger case for SSM

  • Gerard McEk

    The problem is that the TC’s can get broken at high temps. After that they may show any value that does not reflect the real temperature. The runaway situations (T2 going in excess of 1300 C) are prommissing and may indicate LENR, but the self sustaining period (fig. 2) may be a wrong indictation of T2. The increased T4 in fig. 3 is interesting too. However, I would never quantify the excess heat, having it based on indications of T2, which was overloaded, unless you could prove afterwards that the TC was still in good shape.

  • psi2u2

    Wow. Good point. Let’s hope that is not the explanation for most of these replications. Thank you for reporting your contrary findings.

  • Antonio LaGatta and John T Vaughn (Industrial Heat) have incorporated HMRI R&D Inc in North Carolina:

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2838-Antonio-LaGatta-and-John-T-Vaughn-have-incorporated-HMRI-R-D-Inc-in-North-Caroli/

  • Obvious

    Additional potential TC problems, regarding open circuit TCs.

    http://www.ni.com/white-paper/12334/en/

    “For example, if the thermocouple is electrically in contact with a
    surface that is electrically related to (not isolated from) the volt
    meter ground, then if the thermocouple breaks and opens up, one end of
    the thermocouple will be floating (and weakly tied to volt meter ground)
    while the other end will be tied to the voltage of the surface that the
    thermocouple is touching. This means that instead of measuring the
    thermocouple we are now measuring the common mode voltage difference
    between the surface the TC was measuring and the ground of the volt
    meter.”
    etc.

  • jimbo92107

    Are researchers limiting the output heat of their LENR experiments because the thermocouples keep melting? If so, why don’t they use thermocouples that operate at a higher range of temperatures?

    http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/0-3mm-operating-in-1500C-furnace_2022990334.html?spm=a2700.7724857.29.55.fSpWKd

    Here’s one that operates up to 1500C.

  • bachcole

    Let the LENR Juggernaut named “The Good Times” roll!

    I see the hand of Intelligent Design behind all of this. (:->)

  • Obvious

    I have a friend that would reply that Satan put it all there, from dinosaur bones to isotope evidence, in order to throw everyone off of the track to God…

  • Obvious

    The opposite of love is control.

  • Obvious

    But my friend’s meaning, I assure you, is quite literal.
    There’s no discussing almost anything with him.
    The contradictions of daily life with his philosophy are not contradictions at all to him. Whether Satan invented it, or Someone Else, they still work if they work, he believes. They just are in the way of The Way.
    Anyways, we digress…

  • The “peer review” is ongoing and right here! There are more than a few competent peers engaged in the oongoing OPEN discussion of the work. Alas even some of the blowhard trolls occasionally make themselves useful. Having participated in many closed ‘peer reviews’ for the profit mongering journals of ‘science’ I can tell you this process is far more valid!