Industrial Heat Makes Statement Regarding LENR Industry Developments

Thanks to Jed Rothwell for posting this statement on the Vortex-l. It came to him from Marianne Macy of Infinite Energy magazine.

Statement of Industrial Heat Regarding LENR Industry Developments

March 10, 2016

Industrial Heat’s objective is to make clean, safe and affordable energy available everywhere, and in doing this we want to build a company that demonstrates respect for all. LENR is a key focus of Industrial Heat and we believe multiple technologies in this sector warrant further investigation and development.

Industrial Heat has licensed, acquired or invested in several LENR technologies from around the world. We have developed a group of LENR thought leaders, and we have built a world-class engineering team. We are pleased with the technologies we have assembled and with the group of scientists and engineers working on them. Presently, the Industrial Heat team is in the midst of assessing and prioritizing the technologies in our portfolio.

Our operating philosophy is to foster scientific and engineering rigor in the development of LENR. We will thoroughly assess data derived from sound experiments which we design, control and monitor.

Embracing failure as well as success is important, because we learn from both. Unfortunately, there is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector.

Because of this, we encourage open-minded skepticism. We believe society suffers when technological advances and innovative experimentation are stifled; likewise, society and the industry suffer when results are promoted and claims are made without rigorous verification and precise measurement.

We value credibility through sound LENR research. That’s why any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.

Our portfolio of work has never been stronger and we remain excited about the potential we see. This optimism is grounded in more than just hope, yet a great deal of work remains. The energy challenges of today must be met with viable, clean, safe and affordable solutions.

  • mcloki

    interesting. Are they distancing themselves from Rossi?

    • Rogers

      Perhaps, but I think it more likely that they are setting themselves up for a future (near future) announcement. Here they are essentially saying: when we say it works, it does in fact work. Stay tuned, we will be making an announcement in the near future… At least that’s what I hope this means.

      • psi2u2

        Yes, that is what they are saying.

        • georgehants

          ECW has spent a couple of weeks testing an Orbo and so far without success, it does not take an Einstein to determine if Mr. Rossi (IH) after running a device for a full year in a working enviroment has produced a Cop of a figure large enough to categorically show success.
          Time to end the theatrical and get on with the practical, not making IH profit but showing the World it genuinely has a new energy source in which to devote time and labour comparable to the numbers employed by the armed forces of the World

    • Tom59

      Don’t think so. They want the entire cake. Rossi is leading and this position may allow to cooperate and integrate whatever other initiative is around. Good for progress and roll out. And as Darden has other motives than just money – good for the world.

    • Bob Greenyer

      If they are, it may only be a bluff to buy time to get ready to market.

      If I was them at this time, I would make sure everyone thought you had nothing, even getting researchers to work on testing if Rossi is “right” whilst pretending that you were not confident in him.

      But this isn’t gonna stop our work.

      The difficulty is, if they gave a different story to their investors, this would probably be against financial regulations – so the best tell if Rossi has something is to see what the money does. If IH and all its tentacles pull away from Rossi and there are no links left – one might have a better indication of the truth.

      The really interesting thing is that despite many hundreds of theories out there, many patents and many researchers – the ONLY patent they have attacked in Piantelli’s.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        Yes patent Piantelli and likely part of the secondary ingredients, and specifically about lithium.

  • mcloki

    interesting. Are they distancing themselves from Rossi?

    • Rogers

      Perhaps, but I think it more likely that they are setting themselves up for a future (near future) announcement. Here they are essentially saying: when we say it works, it does in fact work. Stay tuned, we will be making an announcement in the near future… At least that’s what I hope this means.

      • psi2u2

        Yes, that is what they are saying, imho.

    • Tom59

      Don’t think so. They want the entire cake. Rossi is leading and this position may allow to cooperate and integrate whatever other initiative is around. Good for progress and roll out. And as Darden has other motives than just money – good for the world.

    • Bob Greenyer

      If they are, it may only be a bluff to buy time to get ready to market.

      If I was them at this time, I would make sure everyone thought you had nothing, even getting researchers to work on testing if Rossi is “right” whilst pretending that you were not confident in him.

      But this isn’t gonna stop our work.

      The difficulty is, if they gave a different story to their investors, this would probably be against financial regulations – so the best tell if Rossi has something is to see what the money does. If IH and all its tentacles pull away from Rossi and there are no links left – one might have a better indication of the truth.

      The really interesting thing is that despite many hundreds of theories out there, many patents and many researchers – the ONLY patent they have attacked in Piantelli’s.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        Yes patent Piantelli and likely part of the secondary ingredients, and specifically about lithium.

  • Reading between the lines:

    IH believes in LENR and has seen it working.

    We bought up a bunch of LENR stuff but, ladies and gentlemen we have a clear winner (Rossi).

    Wait for our announcement and don’t let anybody steal our thunder. Just a little while longer, please, while the ERV gets their stuff together for public consumption.

    • roseland67

      Reading between the lines is what has been going on since January, 2011, and it usually results in ginormous rumors, unrealized capabilities, unmet introduction dates, never seen production lines etc etc.
      My suggestion is don’t read between the lines,
      Wait until is in confirmed by IH, simple.

      • This whole web site is dedicated to analyzing the shreds of information we get from various sources, reputable or not, concerning LENR. Industrial Heat hardly ever says anything and they are perhaps the most import player in this drama.

        So yeah. We’re gonna look at what they said and try to figure out what it means.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Or pre-emptive damage control when the third party report turns out negative?

      • Perhaps. The word “failure” is in there.

        Maybe they are preparing us for, well the ERV figured out Rossi’s 5-year mistake/scam but we’re still getting interesting results from Brillouin, etc. so we’re going to keep on going and when we say it works, you can believe it cause we quadruple check everything.

        To me this doesn’t square with much of the other information we have gotten lately. but I suppose it is possible.

        • psi2u2

          Why doesn’t it square?

          • Mats Lewan: strong indications of positive 1 MW report.
            Engineer inside plant saying he’s seen incredible things.
            Continued positive statements from Darden.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            Right. It is kind of easy for us on ‘this side’ to ignore all of that as meaningless speculation. The significance of all the chatters rests contingent on whether the E-Cat actually works.

          • But it’s more than speculation. It’s people in a position to *know* behaving in such a way that clearly indicates that *they think* it works.

            That doesn’t necessarily mean that it works. The ERV might have discovered a systemic error of some kind. But it moves the whole thing well past Rossi says to a whole mini-community believes it works over a very extended period of time. Why run a 1 year test if you know it’s BS after a month? So ignore this circumstantial evidence at your peril.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Why would the customer re-fill it.

            Why would Rossi go on happy and de-stressed to work on the E-Cat X-Ray

          • Devil’s advocate: because the customer *is* Rossi in some other manifestation and because he is happily delusional or scamtastic.

          • Bob Greenyer

            If he were a scam artist – he would have had to go to extraordinary lengths to make everything he has ever said fit nature.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            I agree, he is definitely either right or a scam artist of the highest caliber. Finding out the truth will be exciting either way.

          • Honestly I think scam artist is 0.0% chance at this point.

            I leave open a tiny window for systemic measurement error until somebody truly independent and rigorously scientific backs up the results. But even that I give << 0.0001% chance. Who mismeasures something by a factor of 6 or more over 5 years?

          • Teemu Soilamo

            I believe that your assessment of scam artist probability should not rely on this type of analysis. The illusion would have to go much deeper than systemic measurement error.

          • The distinction is purposeful misrepresentation or honest mistake.

            I personally believe that the former has been eliminated as a possibility. YMMV.

          • Ecco

            The “negative” portions of this statement:

            There is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector […]

            Society and the industry suffer when results are promoted and claims are made without rigorous verification and precise measurement […]

            Any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments. […]

          • Ged

            Aka “We won’t defraud you, investors. We will validate seriously, we won’t make claims not backed by solid data, and you should not believe anyone about our results except what we release with sound third party validations backing us up. We’re serious, and you’ll be confident you can make money if you trust us, unlike all those other untrustworthy groups that burned you before.”

          • Ecco

            As I read it, paraphrasing:

            Premature claims are being made right now, as usual in the LENR field.

            Premature and unverified claims damage both the industry (e.g. “us”, IH) and the credibility of LENR research.

            Don’t trust what others have to say about our technology.

          • Ged

            We don’t see any premature claims yet, really. So that first part doesn’t make sense. It could make sense if they know someone is -going- to be leaking information outside of their control, but it hasn’t hit yet. Ian Walker makes a good point about that below.

          • Charlie tapp

            Sounds to me they may be watching you guys and reading everything you are doing and don’t want to look like you four or five guys figured it out ahead of them. Because whoever comes out with for sure repeatable device will almost certainly be the group that gets all the credit for the rest of history not to mention the trillions of dollars in shutting them up or investing heavily. Mabee you guys struck a cord in your conversations in the last week or so.

          • Well, one thing is clear from our discussion: if the statement was meant to prepare the peanut gallery for bad news, it didn’t have that effect. So if that was the intent we should expect another sternly worded memo shortly.

          • Mats002

            The business language usually follows the logic ‘speak positive or not at all’. They speak and therefore they have something positive.

          • That seems to be the consensus.

          • Buck

            +10 . . . I thoroughly agree.

          • Guest

            Putting this out there… IH has never made a single statement or confirmation about a 1 year test, or about the ERV Report. Go back and look at public comments (hint: they are all Rossi’s…).

            I’m not trying to disappoint everyone, and this is not to say that a 1 year test has not been underway, but that has been Rossi’s test, not IH’s. Rossi has included IH in his comments about the test, but in all of the interviews Tom Darden has given he talks about Lugano as the test.

            Based on their historical comments (‘no more public tests’), and frankly their financial interests, IH would never make any information from an “ERV Report” public, unless it was attached to an immediately available commercial product.

            SO, if that information does become public, you can be assured it comes from Rossi, not from IH, and any assertions about the independence of the customer and ERV are Rossi’s assertions, not IH’s. They don’t say believe statements if they come from IH OR Leonardo/Rossi…

            At the same time, they express optimism about the LENR technologies in their portfolio, so even if Ross has theoretically gotten ahead of himself or exaggerated the independence of this test, that doesn’t mean they’re not bullish on the underlying tech.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Good find thanks, cross posted

          • psi2u2

            Lol. Right. From Mary Yugo?

          • The MYbot is too busy playing the Go champion at the moment to respond.

          • Matt Sevrens

            Translation: “Guys no one said COP of 21 yet, chill the hype until we make the announcement”

          • Matt Sevrens

            All this has done is make us speculate more. Hype hype hype. The line “Embracing failure as well as success is important, because we learn from both” could actually mean the one year test was negative

          • Bob Greenyer

            If it was positive – it would be very much to their benefit to claim it wasn’t.

            One cannot imagine the combined might of the oil/gas/coal/solar/giga factory/wind/old nuclear/hydro etc lobby groups and the incredible power of several trillion in investments that would suddenly start to look bad.

          • Matt Sevrens

            Honestly the LENR community is relatively small. I feel that most people aren’t attending as much as we think.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Oh you are right there – but this announcement wasn’t for us… it was for people that might want to explore any announcement that IH make in the future.

          • Matt Sevrens

            I guess, but wasn’t this sent to explicitly: Infinite Energy Magazine, E-catword, and Mats Lewan? It’s not a press release, it’s a letter to us. Mysteries, mysteries…

          • Ged

            And who knows whom else. One doesn’t hire PR consultants specialized in major events and world crises just to send a letter to us.

          • Brent Buckner

            I think there are a lot of audiences. That explicit list may be related to levels of readership and who has highlighted “claims made about technologies in our [IH’s] portfolio”

          • kenko1

            The oil/gas/coal/solar/giga factory/wind/old nuclear/hydro etc lobby groups know everything. A few well placed mic’s, camera’s, moles , informants can monitor everything quite effectively. If they’re doin it to Steorn, you can bet IH-Rossi-LENR are in their crosshairs.

          • Warthog

            IOW…..F9

          • Alan Smith

            I think this is no more than a prudent finance/compliance director showing investors (and investors yet to come) that they have it all under control. I am that IH are not pointing their statement at anyone who publishes here or any small-scale researchers – none of us even are a threat – as far as the real muscle is concerned we are just kids building castles in the air. But that may change.

          • e-dog

            I think youre spot on Alan.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            Unfortunately, there is no ‘my peril’, i.e., a way to miss out on cashing in on the back of this technology. I wish there were.

          • psi2u2

            Yep. That’s one good point. Also the MFMP results seem to be confirming Rossi’s methodology and technology in key respects. IH may see that as competition, but its also validation.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          What other information?

    • psi2u2

      Sounds like a solid paraphrase/interpretation to me.

      • deleo77

        Maybe that would be a good question for Rossi. Did IH fully back the test and will they stand behind the results? Perhaps the results of the test are bound to leak soon, but IH doesn’t stand behind them. So they preempted it with this statement.

        • BillH

          If IH don’t confirm AH’s results then this story is over, for the reason given above.

    • Warthog

      It may not be all Rossi. With all the hints about the use of EM fields to stimulate LENR, they may well have also licensed tech from Brillouin.

      • We already know they invested in Brillouin Energy too.

        • Warthog

          I had thought that that was the case, but was commenting without a Google check. Thanks for verifying.

  • Reading between the lines:

    IH believes in LENR and has seen it working.

    We bought up a bunch of LENR stuff but, ladies and gentlemen we have a clear winner (Rossi).

    Wait for our announcement and don’t let anybody steal our thunder. Just a little while longer, please, while the ERV gets their stuff together for public consumption.

    ON EDIT: The first half of the message seems aimed internally to smooth ruffled feathers due to the ongoing re-prioritization. We must wait to see who were the winners and losers, obviously, but if the 1 MW plant report is positive as strongly rumored then if you were IH you’d focus on that too. The second half seems aimed externally with the primary take away being that when we, IH, say something, you can believe it.

    • roseland67

      Reading between the lines is what has been going on since January, 2011, and it usually results in ginormous rumors, unrealized capabilities, unmet introduction dates, never seen production lines etc etc.
      My suggestion is don’t read between the lines,
      Wait until is in confirmed by IH, simple.

      • This whole web site is dedicated to analyzing the shreds of information we get from various sources, reputable or not, concerning LENR. Industrial Heat hardly ever says anything and they are perhaps the most important player in this drama.

        So yeah. We’re gonna look at what they said and try to figure out what it means.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Or pre-emptive damage control for if/when the ERV’s report turns up negative?

      Why would you try to smooth internal affairs in a public statement? Surely, there’s an intranet for that.

      • Perhaps. The word “failure” is in there.

        Maybe they are preparing us for, well the ERV figured out Rossi’s 5-year mistake/scam but we’re still getting interesting results from Brillouin, etc. so we’re going to keep on going and when we say it works, you can believe it cause we quadruple check everything.

        To me this doesn’t square with much of the other information we have gotten lately. but I suppose it is possible.

        • psi2u2

          Why doesn’t it square?

          • Mats Lewan: strong indications of positive 1 MW report.
            Engineer inside plant saying he’s seen incredible things.
            Continued positive statements from Darden.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            Right. It is kind of easy for us on ‘this side’ to ignore all of that as meaningless speculation. The significance of all the chatters rests contingent on whether the E-Cat actually works.

          • But it’s more than speculation. It’s people in a position to *know* behaving in such a way that clearly indicates that *they think* it works.

            That doesn’t necessarily mean that it works. The ERV might have discovered a systemic error of some kind. But it moves the whole thing well past Rossi says to a whole mini-community believes it works over a very extended period of time. Why run a 1 year test if you know it’s BS after a month? So ignore this circumstantial evidence at your peril.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Why would the customer re-fill it.

            Why would Rossi go on happy and de-stressed to work on the E-Cat X-Ray

          • Devil’s advocate: because the customer *is* Rossi in some other manifestation and because he is happily delusional or scamtastic.

          • Bob Greenyer

            If he were a scam artist – he would have had to go to extraordinary lengths to make everything he has ever said fit nature.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            I agree, he is definitely either right or a scam artist of the highest caliber. Finding out the truth will be exciting either way.

          • Honestly I think scam artist is 0.0% chance at this point.

            I leave open a tiny window for systemic measurement error until somebody truly independent and rigorously scientific backs up the results. But even that I give << 0.0001% chance. Who mismeasures something by a factor of 6 or more over 5 years?

          • Teemu Soilamo

            I believe that your assessment of scam artist probability should not rely on this type of analysis. The illusion would have to go much deeper than systemic measurement error. And, in fact, if it were a systemic measurement error, that would by definition make Rossi NOT a scam artist.

          • The distinction is purposeful misrepresentation or honest mistake.

            I personally believe that the former has been eliminated as a possibility. YMMV.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            Unfortunately, there is no ‘my peril’, i.e., a way to miss out on cashing in on the back of this technology. I wish there were.

          • psi2u2

            Yep. That’s one good point. Also the MFMP results seem to be confirming Rossi’s methodology and technology in key respects. IH may see that as competition, but its also validation.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          What other information?

    • psi2u2

      Sounds like a solid paraphrase/interpretation to me.

    • Warthog

      It may not be all Rossi. With all the hints about the use of EM fields to stimulate LENR, they may well have also licensed tech from Brillouin.

      • We already know they invested in Brillouin Energy too.

        • Warthog

          I had thought that that was the case, but was commenting without a Google check. Thanks for verifying.

  • Frank Acland

    BTW, JT Vaughn of IH also sent me the same statement.

    • e-dog

      Thats cool

  • Frank Acland

    BTW, JT Vaughn of IH also sent me the same statement.

    • e-dog

      Thats cool

  • Dods

    The second half to me comes across as a precursor warning to all the Pomp’s,Hody’s and goat guys to wind there necks in for there forth coming announcement.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    I’m somewhat baffled by this statement. What are the “premature proclamations” they are referring to? What “claims made about technologies in our portfolio” are they referring to that would warrant and be the genesis for this statement?

    • Could be a reference to Ego Out leaking “guesses.”

      Could obliquely refer to MFMP’s burst of enthusiasm.

      Could refer to something that hasn’t landed yet but they are aware is going to be public soon.

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        Your third guess would be the most interesting. So what story would they want to get ahead of?

        • artefact

          MFMP is going to publish the most interesting parts of the “Symphony of the New Fire”.

        • Well I’ve already been chastised once on this thread for speculating.

          So why not!

          My best guess would be that someone is about to leak the draft exec summary of the 1 MW report.

          • psi2u2

            I would think so too.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            About to “leak” as ordered by the management? Cause how would they know ahead of time?

          • I don’t know. But I don’t think what MFMP is doing bothers them at all. I think they are trying to manage the release of the 1 MW report, whether it be positive or negative. But that’s just a guess.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            That would be the Occam’s Razor analysis, yes

    • Frank Acland

      I’m wondering if it’s a response to the MFMP

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        Same thought I had, or Ego Out, or Mats Lewan’s info. Still, it definitely isn’t clear why they felt the need for this statement.

      • Teemu Soilamo

        Bob does seem to have gone off the deep end, heh. 😉

        • Hi all

          Bob has been making statements that might be construed as being supportive of one of IH’s competitors. Only a couple of months ago IH saw off one of Piantelli’s patents. That patent is now under appeal.

          That said MFMP have said their work relies on Rossi patent’s and statments too.

          Just some more opening salvo’s in the patent wars to come.

          Kind Regards walker

          • Gerard McEk

            I agree, that might be a major issue.

          • e-dog

            any idea who is in the IH portfolio??

      • Gerard McEk

        I would be happy with MFMP’s statement if I were IH, it makes the E-cat more valuable.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          Does it, really? Only if E-Cat doesn’t actually work.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Teemu – you are right, the invention is the most valuable ever!

    • Frank Acland

      MFMP has been claiming they have discovered some secrets of the E-Cat, which is a technology in the portfolio of IH.

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        So why not just ignore it? Has the MFMP hit close enough to home that they need to address it?

    • psi2u2

      Well, as everyone should know I’m a Rossi fan, but nevertheless it is true that Rossi himself has often let his hopes get ahead of the practicalities and has made his own “premature proclamations” (something he has been doing far less in more recent months). So I think this warning about “premature proclamations” may be warranted on several grounds — but Frank is probably right that the immediate object of the statement was MFMP’s heroic but possibly competing verifications.

      • Bob Greenyer

        And what if one of the MANY replications see something similar…

      • Frank Acland

        I don’t think anyone can accuse Rossi of making premature pronouncements about his 1MW plant test. It’s been F9 all the way.

        • psi2u2

          Agreed. I was referring to some of his previous statements from around 2011. I think it was just his enthusiasm getting away with him. I agree, he’s been much more careful about what he says since then — and despite the catcalling and negativism of his critics, has continued to push forward with apparently dramatic success. Like you I look forward to a more complete reveal soon.

      • Ged

        They just mean any claims people are making -for them- not released -by them- in accordance with thorough validations. It’s a blanket statement to say they are doing their due diligence, and doesn’t appear to be aimed at anyone.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Fair assessment

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    I’m somewhat baffled by this statement. What are the “premature proclamations” they are referring to? What “claims made about technologies in our portfolio” are they referring to that would warrant and be the genesis for this statement?

    • Could be a reference to Ego Out leaking “guesses.”

      Could obliquely refer to MFMP’s burst of enthusiasm.

      Could refer to something that hasn’t landed yet but they are aware is going to be public soon.

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        Your third guess would be the most interesting. So what story would they want to get ahead of?

        • artefact

          MFMP is going to publish the most interesting parts of the “Symphony of the New Fire”.

        • Well I’ve already been chastised once on this thread for speculating.

          So why not!

          My best guess would be that someone is about to leak the draft exec summary of the 1 MW report.

          • psi2u2

            I would think so too.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            About to “leak” as ordered by the management? Cause how would they know ahead of time?

          • I don’t know. But I don’t think what MFMP is doing bothers them at all. I think they are trying to manage the release of the 1 MW report, whether it be positive or negative. But that’s just a guess.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            That would be the Occam’s Razor analysis, yes

    • Frank Acland

      I’m wondering if it’s a response to the MFMP

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        Same thought I had, or Ego Out, or Mats Lewan’s info. Still, it definitely isn’t clear why they felt the need for this statement.

      • Teemu Soilamo

        Bob does seem to have gone off the deep end, heh. 😉

        • Hi all

          Bob has been making statements that might be construed as being supportive of one of IH’s competitors. Only a couple of months ago IH saw off one of Piantelli’s patents. That patent is now under appeal.

          That said MFMP have said their work relies on Rossi patent’s and statments too.

          Just some more opening salvo’s in the patent wars to come.

          Kind Regards walker

          • Gerard McEk

            I agree, that might be a major issue.

      • Gerard McEk

        I would be happy with MFMP’s statement if I were IH, it makes the E-cat more valuable.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          Does it, really? Only if the E-Cat doesn’t actually work.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Teemu – you are right, the invention is the most valuable ever!

    • Frank Acland

      MFMP has been claiming they have discovered some secrets of the E-Cat, which is a technology in the portfolio of IH.

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        So why not just ignore it? Has the MFMP hit close enough to home that they need to address it?

    • psi2u2

      Well, as everyone should know I’m a Rossi fan, but nevertheless it is true that Rossi himself has often let his hopes get ahead of the practicalities and has made his own “premature proclamations” (something he has been doing far less in more recent months). So I think this warning about “premature proclamations” may be warranted on several grounds — but Frank is probably right that the immediate object of the statement was MFMP’s heroic but possibly competing verifications.

      • Bob Greenyer

        And what if one of the MANY replications see something similar…

      • Frank Acland

        I don’t think anyone can accuse Rossi of making premature pronouncements about his 1MW plant test. It’s been F9 all the way.

        • psi2u2

          Agreed. I was referring to some of his previous statements from around 2011. I think it was just his enthusiasm getting away with him. I agree, he’s been much more careful about what he says since then — and despite the catcalling and negativism of his critics, has continued to push forward with apparently dramatic success. Like you I look forward to a more complete reveal soon.

      • Ged

        They just mean any claims people are making -for them- not released -by them- in accordance with thorough validations. It’s a blanket statement to say they are doing their due diligence, and doesn’t appear to be aimed at anyone.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Fair assessment

  • psi2u2

    What a terrific statement.

  • Bob K

    What would be the motivation for IH to make this statement? Why bother? It seems vague and boilerplate. They’ve been secretive til now so why not remain silent? Strange!

    • psi2u2

      They are establishing their own authority to make definitive statements about the results of experiments conducted under their auspices. To me it preludes release of the third party results (and possibly data) of the test.

    • e-dog

      Good questions

    • Ged

      Because people have been “leaking” rumors about the results of the ERV, and that could hurt investor confidence. Doesn’t matter what the rumors are, IH needs to say only what they release if backed by solid third party validations, are important to listen to–but most importantly, that is the benchmark they are using, and they will not be making premature claims as has been done by many previous players in the LENR field.

  • georgehants

    ECW has spent a couple of weeks testing an Orbo and so far without success, it does not take an Einstein to determine if Mr. Rossi (IH) after running a device for a full year in a working enviroment has produced a Cop of a figure large enough to categorically show success.
    Time to end the theatrical and get on with the practical, not making IH profit but showing the World it genuinely has a new energy source in which to devote time and labour comparable to the numbers employed by the armed forces of the World

  • LuFong

    Given that IH is involved in multiple LENR technologies with a world class engineering team and that Rossi is completely involved in Leonardo Corp research and development, it appears to me that Rossi is no longer Chief Scientist for IH. Also there does not appear to be any indication that the E-Cat is significantly ahead of other LENR technologies but of course the ERV report is probably not yet available.

    I hope to hear more from IH once the results are in for the 1MW 1 year test. By the way Rossi is on record that the report will probably not be generally published: “I do not think the ERV’s report will be published, being a confidential document, but surely a publication will be made about the results in the Leonardo Corporation’s website, in full respect of all the information that must remain restricted for contractual issues.” ( http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=50#comment-1148969 ) Let’s hope something like a good executive summary becomes available.

  • EEStorFanFibb

    well that is quite something. what to make of it… I don’t really know.

  • well that is quite something. what to make of it… I don’t really know.

  • psi2u2

    They are establishing their own authority to make definitive statements about the results of experiments conducted under their auspices. To me it preludes release of the third party results (and possibly data) of the test.

  • This has to be a shot at Bob / MFMP and possibly Mats Lewan.

    “society and the industry suffer when results are promoted and claims
    are made without rigorous verification and precise measurement.”

    • e-dog

      seriously??

      • Or against possibly some near-future claim making entity we don’t yet know about but IH has on it’s radar?

  • LuFong

    In addition to psi2u2’s statement, IH’s statement could be seen as a precursor to a very limited disclosure of the ERV results.

  • Stephen

    Many people have asked for a statement from Industrial Heat. I think this is a good one. It’s clear I think and measured.

    This gives me the impression they are very serious and professional about the integrity and importance of all their projects and their future and broader plans.

    I hope they can announce some good news about their developments soon as part of their roll out. That will really make my day when it comes.

    In the meantime I wish them well.

  • Stephen

    Many people have asked for a statement from Industrial Heat. I think this is a good one. It’s clear I think and measured.

    This gives me the impression they are very serious and professional about the integrity and importance of all their projects and their future and broader plans.

    I hope they can announce some good news about their developments soon as part of their roll out. That will really make my day when it comes.

    In the meantime I wish them well.

  • Ged

    “We are pleased with the technologies we have assembled and with the
    group of scientists and engineers working on them. Presently, the
    Industrial Heat team is in the midst of assessing and prioritizing the
    technologies in our portfolio.”

    1 MW industrial E-Cat versus the E-Cat X?

    • Gerard McEk

      E-cat X is included in the licenced agreement between IH and AR.

      • Ged

        Exactly. But which to invest in? Which to put the efforts into to really bring to market? Which to prioritize? Money and time are finite.

  • Gerard McEk

    Maybe the two top items of ECW are linked: This and AR health?
    It could be that IH blames AR that secrets have been leaked, resulting in the progress of MFMP.
    It does make me pessimistic, though. It surely seems to prepare us for bad results. AR is very restricted in giving us some details about any Ecat lately.

    • Ged

      I really think there is a lot of mis- and over-reading going on in regards to the second half of the IH statement. IH actually spells out exactly what they mean and are talking about when they say: “We value credibility through sound LENR research. That’s why any claims
      made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if
      affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who
      have verified our results in repeated experiments.”

      LENR has always had a serious credibility problem. Look at Defkalion. Tons of promises from many groups who later just fizzle out and disappear; on top of staunch resistance from the scientific community. They have to say what they are saying simply to make it plain that they are doing their due diligence and will not be allowing any unverified claims to be associated with them.

      • Gerard McEk

        It is just this sentence:
        “Embracing failure as well as success is important, because we learn from both. Unfortunately, there is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector.”
        It seems to prepare the reader for failure and the will to continue with investments in LENR (directed at the share holders).

        • Ged

          I don’t think so. The statement is not to prepare readers for failure, it is to make it plain that IH isn’t going to -cover up- failure with premature proclamations, but will make sure to properly evaluate all failures and successes so that whatever they do come up with is valid and will withstand scrutiny. Thus, investors will make money with them.

    • e-dog

      wow thats a big leap in possibilities Gerard, trying to see the connections….

      • Gerard McEk

        I’m just trying to make links between different but probably related issues. Time will tell if that link was right or wrong. I am not going to speculate further.

  • Gerard McEk

    Maybe the two top items of ECW are linked: This and AR health?
    It could be that IH blames AR that secrets have been leaked, resulting in the progress of MFMP.
    It does make me pessimistic, though. It surely seems to prepare us for bad results. AR is very restricted in giving us some details about any Ecat lately.

    • Ged

      I really think there is a lot of mis- and over-reading going on in regards to the second half of the IH statement. IH actually spells out exactly what they mean and are talking about when they say: “We value credibility through sound LENR research. That’s why any claims
      made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if
      affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who
      have verified our results in repeated experiments.”

      LENR has always had a serious credibility problem. Look at Defkalion. Tons of promises from many groups who later just fizzle out and disappear; on top of staunch resistance from the scientific community. They have to say what they are saying simply to make it plain that they are doing their due diligence and will not be allowing any unverified claims to be associated with them.

      • Gerard McEk

        It is just this sentence:
        “Embracing failure as well as success is important, because we learn from both. Unfortunately, there is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector.”
        It seems to prepare the reader for failure and the will to continue with investments in LENR (directed at the share holders).

        • Ged

          I don’t think so. The statement is not to prepare readers for failure, it is to make it plain that IH isn’t going to -cover up- failure with premature proclamations, but will make sure to properly evaluate all failures and successes so that whatever they do come up with is valid and will withstand scrutiny. Thus, investors will make money with them.

    • e-dog

      wow thats a big leap in possibilities Gerard, trying to see the connections….

      • Gerard McEk

        I’m just trying to make links between different but probably related issues. Time will tell if that link was right or wrong. I am not going to speculate further.

  • Hi all

    IH have nailed their colours to their mast.

    They are telling everyone they are doing LENR research and investment.

    It is planting a flag.

    This is OUR TURF.

    You do not do that unless you have something.

    If they had nothing they would just let it wither.

    Kind Regards walker

    • Bob Greenyer

      This is a shareholder value protection statement more than anything else. Ten years working at the top of a major internationals Investor Relations team allows me to recognise the language.

  • Hi all

    IH have nailed their colours to their mast.

    They are telling everyone they are doing LENR research and investment.

    It is planting a flag.

    This is OUR TURF.

    You do not do that unless you have something.

    If they had nothing they would just let it wither.

    Kind Regards walker

    • Bob Greenyer

      This is a shareholder value protection statement more than anything else. Ten years working at the top of a major internationals Investor Relations team allows me to recognise the language.

      • please explain what a “shareholder value protection statement” does for them and why they issued it now.

        • Brent Buckner

          Perhaps to get ahead of any accusations of privileged release of non-public material information stemming from such things as the posts at EGO OUT (and even JONP). Such things can lead to lawsuits and regulatory issues.

  • Josh G

    This has nothing to do with MFMP since MFMP has no connection to industrial heat. They are telling us to wait until they hear eureka from them. It is then hitting F9. It might indicate that Rossi’s mouth is getting ahead of him.

    Someone remind me what ERV stand for please…

    • Frank Acland

      Expert Responsible for Validation

  • Josh G

    This has nothing to do with MFMP since MFMP has no connection to industrial heat. They are telling us to wait until they hear eureka from them. It is then hitting F9. It might indicate that Rossi’s mouth is getting ahead of him.

    Someone remind me what ERV stand for please…

    • Frank Acland

      Expert Responsible for Validation

      • Josh G

        Great, Frank, thanks! I feel like I’m going crazy because I know the theoretical explanation for LENR lays in the theories of Miles Mathis, but I can’t seem to get anyone interested. It’s not what anyone thinks, because the physics behind it is totally different than the dominant theories today.

        I am already starting to work out the explanation, which I will post here when it gets advanced enough. So far I haven’t been able to get Miles interested in working on the problem, but if he does I believe he’ll be able to figure it out pretty quickly. In fact he has figured out several related issues.

        I’m so excited about it. It feels weird to be walking around thinking I might be the only person who is beginning to really understand what’s going on, and perhaps the person who is going to crack the nut. It’s a strange feeling. But I’m not sure I’m smart enough. I feel like if we were all working on it together it would speed things up.

        Maybe you’ll take a look at his work? If you give it your stamp of approval (“this looks interesting” or “this looks promising,” more people might take a look…?)

        For some reason his website seems to be a bit off today, but here is the link: http://milesmathis.com/

        His work not very technical, but it is completely revolutionary.

        On his website home page, I recommend reading the preface first, then the first two papers in section 1 on the UNIFIED FIELD. Then the first 12 or so papers in section 4 on QUANTUM PHYSICS (until paper number 100), then papers 124, 127, and 128 in section 5 on ELECTROMAGNETICS, then 227, 229, 232-234, 237, 252, 259, 261, 262 in section 7 on QED and QCD.

        Sections 8 and 9 are the most critical. The most relevant papers in section 8 on LIGHT and CHARGE are numbers 265, 269-274, 281, 282. The last 3 on heat and charge are critical for LENR, and you could almost start there as he provides links to some of the relevant background papers.

        Then section 9 on charge channeling and nuclear diagrams in the ATOMIC NUCLEUS, especially papers 312-316. Paper 315 ‘how to build elements’ is key. Then 328-330, 332-335 (that last one on noble gases can be used to explain the Papp engine btw), and finally 338.

        It sounds overwhelming, I know, but his work is very accessible with minimal equations, and he uses mainly high school level algebra. His papers range from 3-20 pages, with a few longer exceptions. And they’re actually fun to read. Exhilarating, actually.

  • Ged

    Ok, so, there is way too much talk going on in the thread below to really address all the different commenters, but I do believe a great deal of misunderstanding and logic leaps have crept in in regards to this IH statement’s second half. IH isn’t addressing MFMP, it isn’t upset at Rossi’s talk, or Rossi’s health, it isn’t distancing itself from anyone. It’s addressing the seriousness of its work to -establish- credibility in a field that has lacked mainstream credibility since 1989. IH even spells this out in no uncertain terms. To wit:

    “We will thoroughly assess data derived from sound experiments which we design, control and monitor.”

    “Unfortunately, there is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector” (e.g. Defkalion and many others)

    “[L]ikewise, society and the industry suffer when results are promoted and
    claims are made without rigorous verification and precise measurement.”

    “That’s why any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should
    only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by
    reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated
    experiments.”

    “Our portfolio of work has never been stronger and we remain excited about the potential we see.”

    They start by saying they are doing thorough validation. They acknowledge that other corporations have made claims without thorough validation which would make investors weary that IH would be more of the same (and IH is saying -they are not-). The next quote is IH showing its recognition of the seriousness of making false claims not backed by data, and how this must be avoided. Then they follow up to make sure no one will believe what anyone says about IH if it doesn’t come from IH with third party validations attached (again, to entice investors and keep them from being burned by unsubstantiated rumors). And then they end with the bookend for the first quote–they are doing extensive validations, and they are excited about the results thus far. But again, only believe what they publish directly, and not from any other source.

    End conclusion: invest in us; we’re serious, we know how to validate, we have been validating, we are confident we’ve already proven our portfolio and are standing by our investments and looking for more, and we will protect your reputation as an investor in us against any other sources and rumors.

    • EEStorFanFibb

      “End conclusion: invest in us; we’re serious, we know how to validate, we
      have been validating, we are confident we’ve already proven our
      portfolio and are standing by our investments and looking for more, and
      we will protect your reputation as an investor in us against any other
      sources and rumors.”

      yeah that seems like that’s what they are saying.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      It’s just the timing of this PR that is baffling – unless they already know the ERV report is negative. Otherwise, why not wait until it’s released?

      But then again, maybe there are things going on in the background that we don’t know about.

      • Ged

        Why is it baffling? They know the ERV is coming, and they don’t want people making up stuff ahead of it with “leaked” rumors and the like. There is nothing in the statement that says the ERV is negative, in fact, it is incredibly positive a statement. But they want investors and everyone to know whatever is released is serious, and solid work.

        In fact, the exact opposite of what you say is true. Only if the ERV is positive would they want to release this statement harping so hard on how solid and trustworthy their work is and how nothing we hear from them will be unsubstantiated, premature claims, so when it does hit we can be confident in the report. If it was negative, they would have no reason at all to say that–it would just be another “oh well, same old CF story”.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          So the ERV is so positive that IH actually building credibility before the amazing announcement that will blow everyone away? lol

          I wish I shared your optimism. 🙂

          • Ged

            This is business; it’s all about investors, return on investment, and money. That is the lens you need to use when you read this.

            They make a case for credibility, and distance themselves from other LENR groups that failed their investors with premature claims and then ran off with the money. The only reason to do that, in the context of business and the history of LENR companies, is if you do have positive results coming and you want people to be certain you won’t release these results unless they are solid, unlike what said previous players that scammed others accidentally (or not) did. If what was coming was negative, they would not release a call for more credibility (that would be irrelevant, everyone believes negative news), but instead their statement would be a call for patience and continued hard work and hope. IH says they are pleased, not that they are hoping “they will” get something. Very, very different business language.

            But, the report could still be negative, and other parts of the portfolio could be taking off, in which case they would still need to make a call for credibility to support whatever they have that is working out positively.

            Credibility is only needed for the positive, not the negative, that’s what makes this statement interesting in a business view point.

          • Hi all

            If they had nothing they would just let it wither. Why call attention to a mistake?

            Ergo they have something and are planting a flag.

            Listen to what we have to say not what others say about us.

            Ergo the report is doing the rounds, others may get hold of it and attempt to spin before release, ignore them.

            Wait for the official report.

            Kind Regards

      • Sanjeev

        Its good to see that IH is still in the game.
        This statement is interesting because normally they won’t say anything. What they are saying in the last but one paragraph is that believe only us, no one else.(“should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat”).
        If you remember Etiam has been gradually releasing their research via partial reports. So far their set up looks very solid and professional, although results are not published yet. They have a patent (application) and can be a trouble for IH if their results are positive. It will be a loss of IP as well as of investment.

      • Frank Acland

        They probably know what to expect from the ERV, since they have their own measurements from the test, and the customer’s data to go on. But they won’t say anything until the ERV reports — positive or negative as it may be.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          Well, that’s exactly what I was expecting IH to do: not say anything. To see them come out of the woodwork after several months of silence and a few weeks before the report is supposed to be out is interesting to say the least.

          • Ged

            It is. It means whatever is coming will be potentially polarizing, and confidence in IH’s fastidiousness is important to build before it arrives.

            There is one other interpretation I can think of that is still congruent with the language: that they know someone got a partial leak of data and that that someone will likely spread that leak to the community very soon, and they are putting up the shields pre-emptively to protect from any damage rumors (positive or negative) can cause.

  • Ged

    Ok, so, there is way too much talk going on in the thread below to really address all the different commenters, but I do believe a great deal of misunderstanding and logic leaps have crept in in regards to this IH statement’s second half. IH isn’t addressing MFMP, it isn’t upset at Rossi’s talk, or Rossi’s health, it isn’t distancing itself from anyone. It’s addressing the seriousness of its work to -establish- credibility in a field that has lacked mainstream credibility since 1989. IH even spells this out in no uncertain terms. To wit:

    “We will thoroughly assess data derived from sound experiments which we design, control and monitor.”

    “Unfortunately, there is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector” (e.g. Defkalion and many others)

    “[L]ikewise, society and the industry suffer when results are promoted and
    claims are made without rigorous verification and precise measurement.”

    “That’s why any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should
    only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by
    reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated
    experiments.”

    “Our portfolio of work has never been stronger and we remain excited about the potential we see.”

    They start by saying they are doing thorough validation. They acknowledge that other corporations have made claims without thorough validation which would make investors weary that IH would be more of the same (and IH is saying -they are not-). The next quote is IH showing its recognition of the seriousness of making false claims not backed by data, and how this must be avoided. Then they follow up to make sure no one will believe what anyone says about IH if it doesn’t come from IH with third party validations attached (again, to entice investors and keep them from being burned by unsubstantiated rumors). And then they end with the bookend for the first quote–they are doing extensive validations, and they are excited about the results thus far. But again, only believe what they publish directly, and not from any other source.

    End conclusion: invest in us; we’re serious, we know how to validate, we have been validating, we are confident we’ve already proven our portfolio and are standing by our investments and looking for more, and we will protect your reputation as an investor in us against any other sources and rumors.

    • “End conclusion: invest in us; we’re serious, we know how to validate, we
      have been validating, we are confident we’ve already proven our
      portfolio and are standing by our investments and looking for more, and
      we will protect your reputation as an investor in us against any other
      sources and rumors.”

      yeah that seems like that’s what they are saying.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      It’s just the timing of this PR that is baffling – unless they already know the ERV report is negative. Otherwise, why not wait until it’s released?

      But then again, maybe there are things going on in the background that we don’t know about.

      • Ged

        Why is it baffling? They know the ERV is coming, and they don’t want people making up stuff ahead of it with “leaked” rumors and the like. There is nothing in the statement that says the ERV is negative, in fact, it is incredibly positive a statement. But they want investors and everyone to know whatever is released is serious, and solid work.

        In fact, the exact opposite of what you say is more likely true. Realy, only if the ERV is positive would they most want to release this statement harping so hard on how solid and trustworthy their work is and how nothing we hear from them will be unsubstantiated, premature claims, so when it does hit we can be confident in the report. If it was negative, they would have no reason at all to say that–it would just be another “oh well, same old CF story”.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          So the ERV is so positive that IH are actually building credibility before the amazing announcement that will blow everyone away? lol

          I wish I shared your optimism.

          • Ged

            This is business; it’s all about investors, return on investment, and money. That is the lens you need to use when you read this.

            They make a case for credibility, and distance themselves from other LENR groups that failed their investors with premature claims and then ran off with the money. The only reason to do that, in the context of business and the history of LENR companies, is if you do have positive results coming and you want people to be certain you won’t release these results unless they are solid, unlike what said previous players that scammed others accidentally (or not) did. If what was coming was negative, they would not release a call for more credibility (that would be irrelevant, everyone believes negative news), but instead their statement would be a call for patience and continued hard work and hope. IH says they are pleased, not that they are hoping “they will” get something. Very, very different business language.

            But, the report could still be negative, and other parts of the portfolio could be taking off, in which case they would still need to make a call for credibility to support whatever they have that is working out positively.

            Credibility is only needed for the positive, not the negative, that’s what makes this statement interesting in a business view point.

          • Hi all

            If they had nothing they would just let it wither. Why call attention to a mistake?

            Ergo they have something and are planting a flag.

            Listen to what we have to say not what others say about us.

            Ergo the report is doing the rounds, others may get hold of it and attempt to spin before release, ignore them.

            Wait for the official report.

            Kind Regards

      • Frank Acland

        They probably know what to expect from the ERV, since they have their own measurements from the test, and the customer’s data to go on. But they won’t say anything until the ERV reports — positive or negative as it may be.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          Well, that’s exactly what I was expecting IH to do: not say anything. To see them come out of the woodwork after several months of silence and just a few weeks before the report is supposed to be out is interesting to say the least.

          • Ged

            It is. It means whatever is coming will be potentially polarizing, and confidence in IH’s fastidiousness is important to build before it arrives.

            There is one other interpretation I can think of that is still congruent with the language: that they know someone got a partial leak of data and that that someone will likely spread that leak to the community very soon, and they are putting up the shields pre-emptively to protect from any damage rumors (positive or negative) can cause.

  • e-dog

    any idea who is in the IH portfolio??

  • Ecco

    The “negative” portions of this statement:

    There is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector […]

    Society and the industry suffer when results are promoted and claims are made without rigorous verification and precise measurement […]

    Any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments. […]

    • Ged

      Aka “We won’t defraud you, investors. We will validate seriously, we won’t make claims not backed by solid data, and you should not believe anyone about our results except what we release with sound third party validations backing us up. We’re serious, and you’ll be confident you can make money if you trust us, unlike all those other untrustworthy groups that burned you before.”

      • Ecco

        As I read it, paraphrasing:

        Premature claims are being made right now, as usual in the LENR field.

        Premature and unverified claims damage both the industry (e.g. “us”, IH) and the credibility of LENR research.

        Don’t trust what others have to say about our technology.

        • Ged

          We don’t see any premature claims regarding them yet, really. So that first part doesn’t make sense. It could make sense if they know someone is -going- to be leaking information outside of their control, but it hasn’t hit yet. Ian Walker makes a good point about that below.

        • JiW

          That’s the way I read it, “continuing pattern” implies something that has happened recently.

        • Charlie tapp

          Sounds to me they may be watching you guys and reading everything you are doing and don’t want to look like you four or five guys figured it out ahead of them. Because whoever comes out with for sure repeatable device will almost certainly be the group that gets all the credit for the rest of history not to mention the trillions of dollars in shutting them up or investing heavily. Mabee you guys struck a cord in your conversations in the last week or so.

    • Warthog

      IOW…..F9

  • e-dog

    seriously??

    • EEStorFanFibb

      Or against possibly some near-future claim making entity we don’t yet know about but IH has on it’s radar?

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        If this statement was intended for investors, then why was it sent by personal e-mail from JT Vaughn to:
        – Infinite Energy
        – E-Cat World
        – Mats Lewan
        To me that makes it seem like it was intended for us, the LENR fan club. Of course I don’t know who else received it.

        • Ged

          “Thanks to Jed Rothwell for posting this statement on the Vortex-l.
          It came to him from Marianne Macy of Infinite Energy magazine.”

          • artefact

            Frank also got an e-mail.

          • Ged

            Ah, I didn’t see that. I guess they regard Frank as a serious news outlet for this field.

          • e-dog

            Which I agree, ECW with Frank as Editor/Admin is a serious news outlet for this field.

          • psi2u2

            Me too. The only thing not present as a general rule on this site are hordes of negativist trolls. The site does a pretty good job of exploring almost all aspects of the news, rationally, without them. For whatever reasons, the MSM has dropped the ball almost completely on this story.

        • Hi all

          Do you not think the investors lurk here?

          Because I tell you with 100% certainty they do.

          They watch this site and the others that you mentioned and many more besides, like hawks.

          And they employ teams of people to do so.

          We know there is at least $1 Billion invested now.

          What do you think?

          Kind Regards walker

          • Karl Venter

            Sorry for the pun but Rossi Said Leonardo has the IP
            IH say they invested in many LENR projects
            They dont even mention Leonardo who owns the IP
            Seems strange to me not to mention Rossi or Leonardo

          • Ged

            Any more strange than not mentioning any names what so ever? You gotta be in talks with them about investment to get a look at their confidential portfolio.

          • psi2u2

            Exactly. So far those reading these tea leaves as negative have scored a big zero.

          • Observer

            The question is, “Who owns Leonardo Corp?”

          • Gerard McEk

            You obviously didn’t include my money! 😉

          • Mats002

            I am an investor, microinvestor 🙂

          • Wishful Thinking Energy

            Lurking investors. Please fund my replication efforts. I come really, really cheap. 😉

          • Hi all

            In reply to Wishful Thinking Energy.

            If there is something, then send in your CV. I will be doing.

            Kind Regards walker

          • Oh, another detail.
            The email from JT Vaughn was sent in CC to a person working at the global public affairs and strategic communications consultancy APCO Worldwide. Experts overseeing public communication.

          • Ged

            So they hired high class consultants for crafting the statement? Some serious business indeed.

          • Curbina

            Subtle hints of a big chess game going behind the curtains, perhaps? Well, hope we know sooner than later. A significant date is aproaching (March 23rd, another aniversary of Fleischmann and Pons original press release). May this be a completely different aniversary, with some warm tea?

          • Bob Greenyer

            March 23rd would be the right day…

          • A Saturday. I wonder if weekend days are bad form for huge announcements.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Not is Arabia – It is a normal working day 😉

          • Bob Greenyer

            iiiiiiiiinteresting…

            Well – By end of play tomorrow, University of Missouri may have replicated… then again – they might not… but if they DID, then they have every top end tool under the sun to train at their humble *GlowStick*

          • Stephen

            Yup I was thourghly impressed by the range of sensors you mention they have at their disposal. Wow. I hope the see something the data will be awesome.

          • Bob Greenyer

            They have just informed me they do not work weekends – so it will run over next week.

          • NT

            Since everyone is guessing, I would guess that both Rossi (Leonardo Corporation) and Industrial Heat are positioning themselves for manufacturing and marketing. It will be an epic battle to see who captures the biggest and best market share the soonest…

          • hempenearth

            I’m not guessing.

          • NT

            Your sure what it all means then – yes?

          • Hi all

            Second biggest in the world and specialists in major events and world crises and politically sensitive issues. Their customers include many of the biggest multinationals as well as governments and major politicians.

            Interesting 🙂

            Kind regards walker

          • Bob Greenyer

            So… not your average local newspaper copywriters then…

          • Hi all

            No 🙂

            One of their clients is Microsoft another is the Clinton’s and a whole bunch of other very interesting people.

            Kind Regards walker

          • Ged

            Expensive folks!

          • Bob Greenyer

            Big fish… well if they can keep Hillary out of jail until she can grant herself immunity – then they are worth every penny.

          • Buck

            We have all wondered about the nature of the statement.

            I believe the good way to describe it is as a “positioning statement”. It clearly defines what IH considers important to maintaining a balance in the face of all the known challenges, including the vested interests. It gives very little away, yet it clearly describes where IH, the “person”, stands and how they are prepared to enter and respond to the forces that will be impacted by IH’s public announcement.

            It has done a good job apparently given when you integrate into a picture how we all have responded to the statement. They are prepared to Indian-wrestle . . . to maintain their balance in the face of the consequent storm. They are not to be trifled with.

            IMHO

          • LookMoo

            Market communication written by a lawyer. Says nothing therefore no legal or investment exposure.

          • More likely written by some one in behavioral science and approved by a lawyer. It communicates a lot between the lines, allthough still vague enough so that everyone can interpret it in accordance with their preconceptions. It’s all about psychology. It’s a brilliant piece of work.

          • Roland

            Meme Reconstruction 101.

          • wpj

            My take is that IH has seen the MFMP reports of radiation bursts and are trying to distance themselves from that so it does not detract from their announcement (when it eventually comes).

          • Rene

            About the only thing I get out that market-speak is that Rossi is not the only ‘LENR thought leader’ they are funding. He may be their only positive, though, but that the failures of others is a learning experience.

          • Omega Z

            Darden had started funding prior to Rossi. I think Rossi was around number 3 or 4 to recieve any kind of funding.

            Here are 2 that have been mentioned
            Brillouin energy
            JET Energy NANOR device “Peter Hagelstein, Mitchell Swartz”

          • FINALLY! — The big reveal draws near!

            A company that has bent over backwards to remain nearly invisible doesn’t hire a world-renowned PR company unless they have SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT TO SAY.

          • Ged

            Considering how much money they must be spending on those guys, that is certainly true.

          • Kind of fits the profile of what I would expect for a firm to handle a tricky announcement. From the wiki page for them:

            “Most public relations firms focus on corporate communications, but APCO is usually hired to handle sensitive political and crisis management issues. Many APCO executives are former prominent government officials, politicians and ambassadors. APCO’s clientele consists of multi-national corporations, governments, politicians, associations and nonprofit organizations.”

          • sam

            They should have Vessela Nikolova announce the test
            results.She could handle it.
            She is Italian and her and .A.R
            seem to hit it off.

          • Buck
        • Buck

          I think it important to focus upon the purpose . . . layout the ground for the establishment of credibility of communications coming from IH. IMHO, IH is stating that they move forward based upon solid work establishing the big-picture reality of the situation, the operational capabilities of LENR with its different incarnations.

          I don’t think it a surprise that IH is sending personal e-mails to the growing list of recipients. I wouldn’t be surprised if this list includes members of News. Heck, I sent an email to Rachel Maddow outlining the available public information including ITPRs, news reports, and leaks that Mats Lewan (whom I strongly trust) shared. I emailed her the day of Rossi declaring the end of the Pilot Plant test pointing to the importance of waiting for the ERV’s report. If my email actually made it through the editorial filters to her desk, then she would be negligent in my personal opinion if she did not do as I suggested . . . Call Tom Darden.

          The above announcement is a perfect response to the likes of Everyone’s questions: “we will let you know when we are ready.”

  • e-dog

    Good questions

  • Dana Troxel

    Their statement “any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.”

    As far as I know, to this date they have made no public statements that fit their own criteria as to what can be relied upon. Have I missed something, could something be coming that will fit the criteria?

    • psi2u2

      That’s why the most obvious interpretation is that this is the first of more than one announcement. All the i’s have not yet been dotted on the report.

  • Sanjeev

    Its good to see that IH is still in the game.
    This statement is interesting because normally they won’t say anything. What they are saying in the last but one paragraph is that believe only us, no one else.(“should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat”).
    If you remember Etiam has been gradually releasing their research via partial reports. So far their set up looks very solid and professional, although results are not published yet. They have a patent (application) and can be a trouble for IH if their results are positive. It will be a loss of IP as well as of investment.

  • Alan Smith

    I think this is no more than a prudent finance/compliance director showing investors (and investors yet to come) that they have it all under control. I am that IH are not pointing their statement at anyone who publishes here or any small-scale researchers – none of us even are a threat – as far as the real muscle is concerned we are just kids building castles in the air. But that may change.

    • e-dog

      I think youre spot on Alan.

  • Robert Ellefson

    “Here, have some more tea leaves. “

    • Ged

      Only proper green ones for me, please. None of those black or nasty orange teas.

      • Mats002

        Any hot water with your leaves?

  • Ged

    Because people have been “leaking” rumors about the results of the ERV, and that could hurt investor confidence. Doesn’t matter what the rumors are, IH needs to say only what they release if backed by solid third party validations, are important to listen to–but most importantly, that is the benchmark they are using, and they will not be making premature claims as has been done by many previous players in the LENR field.

  • Christoph

    I don’t think this is directed at any investors. The pool of investors is a small group that wouldn’t fill a board room. They wouldn’t speak to their investors through these channels. “Grounded in more than just hope” sounds like they have solid proof.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    If this statement was intended for investors, then why was it sent by personal e-mail from JT Vaughn to:
    – Infinite Energy
    – E-Cat World
    – Mats Lewan
    To me that makes it seem like it was intended for us, the LENR fan club. Of course I don’t know who else received it.

    • Ged

      “Thanks to Jed Rothwell for posting this statement on the Vortex-l.
      It came to him from Marianne Macy of Infinite Energy magazine.”

      • artefact

        Frank also got an e-mail.

        • Ged

          Ah, I didn’t see that. I guess they regard Frank as a serious news outlet for this field.

          • e-dog

            Which I agree, ECW with Frank as Editor/Admin is a serious news outlet for this field.

          • psi2u2

            Me too. The only thing not present as a general rule on this site are hordes of negativist trolls. The site does a pretty good job of exploring almost all aspects of the news, rationally, without them. For whatever reasons, the MSM has dropped the ball almost completely on this story.

    • Hi all

      Do you not think the investors lurk here?

      Because I tell you with 100% certainty they do.

      They watch this site and the others that you mentioned and many more besides, like hawks.

      And they employ teams of people to do so.

      We know there is at least $1 Billion invested now.

      What do you think?

      Kind Regards walker

      • Gerard McEk

        You obviously didn’t include my money! 😉

        • Mats002

          I am an investor, microinvestor 🙂

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        Lurking investors. Please fund my replication efforts. I come really, really cheap. 😉

        • Hi all

          In reply to Wishful Thinking Energy.

          If there is something, then send in your CV. I will be doing.

          Kind Regards walker

    • Buck

      I think it important to focus upon the purpose . . . layout the ground for the establishment of credibility of communications coming from IH. IMHO, IH is stating that they move forward based upon solid work establishing the big-picture reality of the situation, the operational capabilities of LENR with its different incarnations.

      I don’t think it a surprise that IH is sending personal e-mails to the growing list of recipients. I wouldn’t be surprised if this list includes members of the News. Heck, I sent an email to Rachel Maddow, the MSNBC political news hound, outlining the available public information including ITPRs, news reports, and leaks that Mats Lewan (whom I strongly trust) shared. I emailed her the day of Rossi declaring the end of the Pilot Plant test pointing to the importance of waiting for the ERV’s report. If my email actually made it through the editorial filters to her desk, then she would be negligent in my personal opinion if she did not do as suggested . . . Call Tom Darden.

      The above announcement is a perfect response by Darden to the likes of Everyone’s questions: “we will let you know when we are ready.”

  • Mats002

    “Our portfolio of work” include Brillouin – see http://www.wfs.org/blogs/richard-samson/shhh-new-energy-breakthrough-quietly-powering at the mid-bottom.

    Big capital is on this train, and I hope they will announce the first product soon.

    • Ged

      Haven’t heard anything about Brillouin in a long while. Do we have any insights to positive developments with them recently? Be very interesting if so.

  • Mats002

    “Our portfolio of work” include Brillouin – see http://www.wfs.org/blogs/richard-samson/shhh-new-energy-breakthrough-quietly-powering at the mid-bottom.

    Big capital is on this train, and I hope they will announce the first product soon.

    • Ged

      Haven’t heard anything about Brillouin in a long while. Do we have any insights to positive developments with them recently? Be very interesting if so.

  • Brent Buckner

    Perhaps to get ahead of any accusations of privileged release of non-public material information stemming from such things as the posts at EGO OUT (and even JONP). Such things can lead to lawsuits and regulatory issues.

  • Gerard McEk

    I once asked AR who is going to publish the report. AR said he didn’t know…..
    But it is clear now Industrial Heat!

    • Sanjeev

      I won’t be surprised if the customer turns out to be none other than IH !

      • Ged

        Probably! I think our sleuths nailed that back on day one.

      • Teemu Soilamo

        Not sure if happy about that. It’s going to be a larger clique version of “Rossi says”.

        • Ged

          But hey, you just got to read a whole statement building up their credibility, after all ;).

      • Sanjeev

        And as suspected, Etiam Oy released their 4th report.
        http://etiam.fi/files/Report_part4.pdf
        Last page shows the results, but can’t say what the result is, its a teaser.
        Most likely a positive result, else why take the trouble of releasing many reports in high detail.

        • Ged

          I have missed the following of Etiam Oy. Would it be possible to get a summary? Their site is a little spartan, and I can’t currently view pdfs, but I am curious.

          • Sanjeev

            The part 4 describes the calibration process and output power calculations from calibration.
            The last page has a plot showing two curves for material x and material y, showing their output power against time. The result or conclusion will be given in part 5.
            The first 3 parts describe the setup and powder preparation etc.

        • Curbina

          This IH public statement looks terrible for all of us E-cat followers, but I think that the take of Siferkoll is probably a likely explanation of it happening right now.

          • f sedei

            “Loose Lips Sink Ships” warning ? Or, just professional paranoia ? Things might be getting REAL serious at IH.

          • NCkhawk

            I think that the statement from IH is interesting and informative and seems intended as a high-ground positioning move. I am wondering why Rossi hasn’t mentioned it on JNOP? Instead he has just referenced an old Darden interview with Marianne Macy that references “competitors”. His David vs Goliath Q &A also seems quite strange as well. Is anyone else getting the feeling that the Q&A narrative is contrived? I sense is that we’re moving into a very interesting and entertaining season.

    • Ged

      Conversely, if AR releases anything claiming to be associated with IH, we can’t believe him or any of the data. Only what IH releases. A smart “heading off at the pass” by IH, to make sure only the official channel they control and vet is listened to.

  • Gerard McEk

    I once asked AR who is going to publish the report. AR said he didn’t know…..
    But it is clear now Industrial Heat!

    • Sanjeev

      I won’t be surprised if the customer turns out to be none other than IH !

      • Ged

        Probably! I think our sleuths nailed that back on day one.

      • Teemu Soilamo

        Not sure if happy about that. It’s going to be a larger clique version of “Rossi says”.

        • Ged

          But hey, you just got to read a whole statement building up their credibility, after all ;).

      • Arthur

        That would be very disappointing, and very easy to criticize. After so much time i hope the “third party” is a real, independent, “third party”, not a business partner of Rossi that has all the interest to confirm every Rossi statement.

        • Ged

          The third party is obviously independent from IH as they bluntly state in this release. Sanjeev is referring to the customer using the 1 MW plant is probably IH.

    • Ged

      Conversely, if AR releases anything claiming to be associated with IH, we can’t believe him or any of the data. Only what IH releases. A smart “heading off at the pass” by IH, to make sure only the official channel they control and vet is listened to.

  • Karl Venter

    Sorry for the pun but Rossi Said Leonardo has the IP
    IH say they invested in many LENR projects
    They dont even mention Leonardo who owns the IP
    Seems strange to me not to mention Rossi or Leonardo

    • Ged

      Any more strange than not mentioning any names what so ever? You gotta be in talks with them about investment to get a look at their confidential portfolio.

      • psi2u2

        Exactly. So far those reading these tea leaves as negative have scored a big zero.

    • Observer

      The question is, “Who owns Leonardo Corp?”

  • e-dog

    Industrial Heat LLC could have summarised the Press Release quite simply and easily with a big….
    F9 !!!

  • e-dog

    Industrial Heat LLC could have summarised the Press Release quite simply and easily with a big….
    F9 !!!

  • Ged

    Only proper green ones for me, please. None of those black or nasty orange teas.

    • Mats002

      Any hot water with your leaves?

  • Well, one thing is clear from our discussion: if the statement was meant to prepare the peanut gallery for bad news, it didn’t have that effect. So if that was the intent we should expect another sternly worded memo shortly.

    • Mats002

      The business language usually follows the logic ‘speak positive or not at all’. They speak and therefore they have something positive.

      • That seems to be the consensus.

        • Buck

          +10 . . . I thoroughly agree.

    • psi2u2

      Lol. Right. From Mary Yugo?

      • The MYbot is too busy playing the Go champion at the moment to respond.

  • Dods

    So when IH push a recruitment drive to be global player in the field of LENR all the people they need are here ready and versed. We know there watching this site and there going to need lots of people none better than ourselves. We have thought tanked the crap out of this and covered every social, economical, industrial scenario. Your experts are here IH wheres the invite?

    • Mats002

      Hi Dods, you are obviously one of the few not already retired from work 😉

      • Dods

        Does bring a very good question I wonder what the avg age of the forum is?

        • Mats002

          A lot of experience I think, but also even if still working not easy to hire, but I agree there must be some recruit base here.

  • Dods

    So when IH push a recruitment drive to be global player in the field of LENR all the people they need are here ready and versed. We know there watching this site and there going to need lots of people none better than ourselves. We have thought tanked the crap out of this and covered every social, economical, industrial scenario. Your experts are here IH wheres the invite?

    • Mats002

      Hi Dods, you are obviously one of the few not already retired from work 😉

      • Dods

        Does bring a very good question I wonder what the avg age of the forum is?

        • Mats002

          A lot of experience I think, but also even if still working not easy to hire, but I agree there must be some recruit base here.

  • Stephen

    It could mean many things, but one thing strikes me as perhaps important. Often when important things are being discussed or important announcements are about to be made, many unofficial “expert sources” make official sounding announcements that are not always correct. These can often be misleading. I suppose they are not too concerned about speculations that are identified as such though.

    Perhaps this is their concern and they want these very popular sites to wait for endorsed announcements before stating them as fact.

    • Hi all

      What Stephen says is correct.

      They are informing the sites.

      “If you want to be in, observe the embargo, if you announce prematurely you might get 5 minutes of fame but that will be it.”

      The riot act has been read.

      If they have something then for this week all the sites will keep mum.

      Kind Regards walker

  • psi2u2

    That’s why the most obvious interpretation is that this is the first of more than one announcement. All the i’s have not yet been dotted on the report.

  • Is this a response to “E-Cat Test Result Guess (Peter Gluck)”?

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/03/04/e-cat-test-result-rumor-peter-gluck/

    • Matt Sevrens

      That’s what I’m thinking

    • Nope. I believe rumors like this are insignificant or mostly positive to IH. They worry much more about the numerous trolls, pathosceptics, skin-in-the-game power academics and their “respected journals”. Some of these people have a lot to loose and might even be dangerous. What he is looking for is obvious and he states it here (it is not a message to us, but to the enemy):

      “Because of this, we encourage open-minded skepticism. We believe society suffers when technological advances and innovative experimentation are stifled”

  • Is this a response to “E-Cat Test Result Guess (Peter Gluck)”?

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/03/04/e-cat-test-result-rumor-peter-gluck/

    • Matt Sevrens

      That’s what I’m thinking

    • Nope. I believe rumors like this are insignificant or mostly positive to IH. They worry much more about the numerous trolls, pathosceptics, skin-in-the-game power academics and their “respected journals”. Some of these people have a lot to loose and might even be dangerous. What he is looking for is obvious and he states it here (it is not a message to us, but to the enemy):

      “Because of this, we encourage open-minded skepticism. We believe society suffers when technological advances and innovative experimentation are stifled”

  • “Unfortunately, there is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector.” It seams to me that this sentence is more or less completely misunderstood. He is not talking about false positives, but about FALSE NEGATIVES during 27 years of research. Tons of reports, experiments and reaserchers have been falsely miscredited. I would guess that right now it is heating up for IH. They probably get a lot of harassments, maybe even personal threats since the shareholders have been outed through the UK company. I’ve made a longer analysis here; http://sifferkoll.se

    • artefact

      Good analysis!

    • Hi all

      We wait.

      No use crying are we there yet?

      We wait.

      It will be officially released.

      Others may get hold of it and try to spin it.

      We wait.

      Kind Regards walker

      • Gerard McEk

        Frank, was this the first time you received post from Vaughn?
        Did he add anything to it?

        • Frank Acland

          I have had occasional email contact with JT Vaughn, but they are not very communicative. This is what he wrote: “You and others have recently made inquiries about the state of our LENR work. I have attached a statement which I hope will provide some clarity by describing our goals, our progress and our operating philosophy, because we want to distinguish Industrial Heat from some recent announcements. “

          • Mats002

            I wonder what those ‘recent announcements’ are.

          • EEStorFanFibb

            Got to be MFMP

          • Bob Tivnan

            Or Peter Gluck’s announcement (rumour) in which he mentioned a COP of 21 connected to Rossi.

          • Ged

            Wonder what announcements he means, unless the Etiam Oy Sanjeev mentioned is indeed lighting a fire, so they want to distinguish the ERV report from those guys.

          • Mats002

            MFMP made announcements recently, as did Rossi about Leonardo, what else to choose from?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            This looks to me like a safe harbour statement which is intended to protect IH against possible legal actions of future investors. Maybe they are even in the preliminary stage of an IPO – which I would welcome, provided that they will not choose the OTC market but NASDAQ at least. Of course, that’s only speculation, as usual.

          • That makes sense.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I think they would IPO when a VERY positive report had been verified and accepted by the scientific gatekeepers.

          • I believe it is even more important that the credibility of the organisation producing the report is rock solid. Best is a business organisation with long track record that is absolutely dependent on their credibility and where this kind of verifications is core business.

            Any “political” organisation (academic, ngo, etc) dependent on other type of financing than these kind of measurements will be wide open for personal and credibility attacks all the way down the spelling. Regardless of core competencies. We know that from Lugano.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The main problem with the Lugano team is that they did not read the emissivity page in their Optris manual. In reality, if we had done BEFORE determining empirically that the emissivity was above 0.9 for pure alumina for the Optris, we would have saved ourselves a whole lot of time, money and effort – but to know for certain through data what reality is made us feel more comfortable.

            The shame is the Lugano report authors did not address this and IH went on to publish the data in their patent application.

          • Maybe so.

            But the reality is that no scenario exists where the test would come out as flawless. There is always n+1 conspiracy theory or fraud hypothesis. The game has no rules, and Arxiv gatekeepers wouldn’t even consider publishing it regardless of how flawless it would have been.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            To me it still sounds like a basic disagreement between IH and Rossi, it might be a fight to control Leonardo and the IP? IH may be playing Rossi off by just saying or actually investing in “other” LENR technologies? What turns me off is IH rhetoric, “Industrial Heat’s objective is to make clean, safe and affordable energy available everywhere, and in doing this we want to build a company that demonstrates respect for all.”These are friendly nice words but there is clearly a fight for who will control LENR: with a huge amount of money at stake.

          • I think that is pure fantasy and nonsense.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Hi Chris: You do not think there is a lot of money involved? You do not think there is a power struggle going on for a big share of the LENR market?

          • Rossi and Industrial Heat are on the same team. They have legal agreements already signed and in place. You are talking nonsense.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Excuse me. You have no idea of the contents of the “legal agreements” between Rossi, Leonardo, and IH. If you have seen them please post them here. You are whistling in the dark my friend.

          • MLWerner

            Not any more whistling than your original conjecture.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Just giving you my opinion, disregard it if you like. I do know Rossi refuses to answer my question (spams it) when I ask him about his relationship with IH. The only question of mine he spams.

          • LarryJ

            Rossi just posted in the last couple of days that IH are their licensees and there are no problems between them. I think people are letting their imaginations get the better of them.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            I need that quote, please publish here. I think what he said is IH is only their licensee and Leonardo holds the IP, said nothing about “no problems”.

          • Frank Acland

            There’s also Hydro Fusion is Sweden who Rossi is praising recently. BTW, from the JONP:Ing. Michelangelo De Meo

            March 11, 2016 at 3:44 AM
            Hello Dr. Rossi:
            Can you comment these statements Industrial Heat ?
            https://animpossibleinvention.com/2016/03/10/industrial-heat-makes-announcement/

            Andrea Rossi
            March 11, 2016 at 9:04 AM
            Ing. Michelangel De Meo:
            Our Licensee Industrial Heat has illustrated clearly its present strategy related to its Territory.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • LarryJ

            Andrea Rossi
            March 11, 2016 at 9:16 AM

            Velda Funderburke:

            Thank you for spotting this issue: there is absolutely no divorce
            between Leonardo Corporation and any of its Licensees, included
            Industrial Heat. Industrial Heat is the legitimate licensee of Leonardo
            Corporation for its Territory and I never referred to any possible
            divorce.

            I invite anybody to disregard any innuendo, supposition, speculation
            related to the licenses of Leonardo Corporation unless they are
            communicated directly from Leonardo Corporation.

            There is some imbecile that tries to get audience inventing situations that do not exist.

            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • bachcole

            I would imagine that people with their attitudes and LENR’s potential would have NO problems getting along.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Sure – but the Lugano team made a very big mistake on which all the calculations were based – Moreover they have failed to even acknowledge it (publicly).

          • georgehants

            Our Wonderful Mr. Rossi will still be working away in his container on the Z-cat while hopefully china etc. are producing millions of units, disregarding patents etc. of the West.
            The Time of the Microsoft’s and Apples with their almost monopoly positions have ended thankfully.
            Once the UK monopolized cotton manufacturing etc. at the expense of those growing it etc. now we don’t even produce our own socks.
            The West is left with living off the corruption in financial dealing, when that ends badly the soup kitchens queues will be a mile long.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Not only Cotton, Tea, Coffee, Slate, Steel, Spices, Opium, Colonisation… you name it. Then we spent all the proceeds on WW2.

            The world HAS to implement this technology in tandem – across the board – it cannot be the preserve of one nation or corporation.

          • georgehants

            Bob, all so unnecessary if every economy was based on production, manpower and sharing only.
            No profit in war, then very few wars, that should only be handled by a caring, competent, comprehensive United Nations.
            I think.

          • winebuff67

            I agree, what would be the basis for the ipo without an earth shattering report alng with multiple verifications by people that the market trusts. Look at ipo’s last couple years overall not great.

          • GreenWin

            Yes. It DOES look like Safe Harbour – suggesting other statements may be suspect. looks like a counter to Dottore’s gung ho pursuit of E-Cat X which IH has little or no investment in and could undermine warm-Cat sales. Surprising Mr. Darden has not locked up “derivative works ” in his Rossi license. IF the E-Cat X does direct electric generation sans heat, IH may find themselves owners of a boat anchor… I wouldn’t be surprised to find this is a card played in negotiation for exclusive E-Cat X IP to Industrial Heat. IF IH suddenly begins talking about X, it will confirm this speculation.

            Still, a good thing to hear that IH has not put all eggs in the E-Cat basket, but has diversified their LENR portfolio to include competing tech – all good news for IH investors (esp Woodford Patient Cap) there is a HUGE market for these products requiring different vertical tech – everyone can win provided there is no big schism with varied IP. Good News keeps rolling in! Early adopters can rejoice – MYs continue to sharpen those seppuku knives. Warm regards… 🙂

          • Ged

            Hm… Has to be something corporately competative that could take investors away or otherwise threaten IH business.

          • Bob Greenyer

            – Appearance of SunCell
            – Validity of IP
            – Inability to hold on to key industrial secrets
            – Not able to validate Rossi’s claims on E-Cat X-Ray

          • EEStorFanFibb

            “because we want to distinguish Industrial Heat from some recent announcements.’

            I guess that blows Sifferkoll’s idea out of the water. http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/

            the only recent LENR announcements that I can see are from MFMP and Mats Lewan.

          • LuFong

            BLP.

          • Maybe, we’re guessing here. But my take is that he is sort of cleaning the table for the ERV report as compared to a couple of replications from Russia and China, including maybe MFMP and BLP.

            The way I see it IH is the buyer of the ERV report. Rossi/Leonardo is not, which he has stated a great number of times. That the ERV exists is verified from different sources. However we don’t know if and when IH plan to release it. Right now it seams like it hasn’t leaked. That is sort of what he is saying. There is also the possibility of external (name your favourite) pressure on the ERV organisation and IH to delay/ditch the report. If I were Woodford Capital I would like to see it though. So I’m positive from that point of view.

          • Got exactly the same wording.

          • Fibber McGourlick

            It’s strange to hear this kind of bland non-announcement after they’ve successfully funded a reactor that’s produced a well-documented one megawatt of energy for one year with a penny-pinch of inexpensive chemicals. I’d better write I.H. a letter and let them know that they’ve just finished saving our civilization and have collaterally made themselves ten trillion dollars over the next ten years.

          • pg

            -6!?

          • Bob Greenyer

            All in the last 4 words

    • Albert D. Kallal

      I have to agree with this.

      Remember, a HUGE list of players does
      NOT want this!

      I suspect that some investors are
      threating to pull out, and others are spreading rumors about how fake such technologies
      are.

      There is a HUGE list of people against
      this technology. Heck, just look at Bill Gates, Obama, and the UN all recently pledging
      BILLIONS to the UN and the IPCC.

      LENR means the global warming fraud is
      over. (global warming receives same amount of money now as cancer research)

      And remember, oil pulls BILLIONS of
      dollars into the hands of a few, and WHAT do those few do? Why they invest
      billions into funds!

      So the pressure by these folks to avoid
      IH and not do anything with LENR is huge.

      So governments, oil, foundations like
      Bill Gates – 100% ALL are against LENR and stand to lose billions.

      So, this will be a CREDIBILITY race. It
      just a matter of time before the mainstream press goes full outright against
      LENR.

      The only response to above is quite much
      what IH stated. This will be a credibility fight.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Hi all

        I think Bill Gates is pro LENR.

        That some will spin against this is a given.

        They did the same to the Wright Brothers.

        And when the auto mobile came along.

        And the internet, I remember it. I can remember in 1998 the Head of Tesco distribution down in London laughing at me when I said that people would buy off the internet and that shops would loose out. My message went further up. Who do you think won that one?

        Kind Regards walker

        • Albert D. Kallal

          How is Gates pro LENR when he makes huge efforts to NOT mention it?

          That makes zero sense? If Gates is pro
          LENR then for what reason does he make GREAT PAINS to avoid speaking about LENR?

          He talks about nuclear, and traveling wave
          technology reactors (classic nuclear technology just re-badged with a fancy
          name – and with all the waste!). Gates NEVER EVER mentions LENR.

          So you must have missed me here somewhere along the way? Cleary Gates knows about LENR, so the deafening silence on his part is by design and by clear effort on his part.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Hi all

            Examine your logic for a second.

            We know Branjolena are invested. What have they said about LENR?

            Or any of the others who have invested over Billion in IH.

            What is said, is no where near as important as what people do.

            Follow the money. 😉

            Kind Regards walker

          • Albert D. Kallal

            The difference here is that of recent Gates has been doing many public interviews on future technologies about energy – and not once has he mentioned the “potential” of lattice enabled nuclear reactions.

            We not talking or comparing his behavior to that of some investment firm spewing out investment papers, but a person making the rounds on TV and doing interviews about great new future energy technologies. That is the Grand Canyon of difference here.

            His actions shows silence on this issue,
            and by clear intention.

            So yes, I am following logic here, and a person spending time to do public interviews about future energy technologies and failing to mention LENR makes ZERO logical sense to me UNLESS such silence is by full intention.

            Running around doing TV interviews about great new future energy technologies and mentioning all kinds of possible new technologies but leaving out LENR is just dead obvious. Those other companies are not talking about any specific types of energy technologies – but Gates is in these interviews but is leaving out LENR.
            As I said – it call a Grand Canyon of difference here – that what logical thinking should show you here. (so yes, do examine my logic closer for a second)>

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Hi all

            Have you considered in cases like this investors are forced to sign a very restrictive cast iron NDA.

            The kind of NDA that say, say a single word and you get your money back NOTHING ELSE.

            Kind Regards walker

          • I believe the reason for the silence at the Gates is exactly what IH is experiencing right now. He can only be vague since he doesn’t have a report good enough to back it up. It that sence Gates has too much to loose in credibility. It only takes some seconds to be beheaded by the mob, so there is no gain, but possibly a lot of pain. IH at least have a tremendous upside, but some of the shareholders are certainly disturbed by the heat right now. Thats one reason for the mail.

          • Mats002

            I don’t see any heat, only silence. Do you have more information about the heat?

      • Well, Big Bank & Oil have known about this for several years. Heck, even Putin and Saudis have known for some time. The academic powers and the politicians in the climate change industry though have everything to loose. They will go all in to stop progress. Right now they say it’s fraud but will happily forbid it anyway because of radiation …

    • Gerard McEk

      Thanks, that is a very good analysis.

    • EEStorFanFibb

      interesting take. thanks.

  • “Unfortunately, there is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector.”

    It seams to me that this sentence is more or less completely misunderstood. He is not talking about false positives, but about FALSE NEGATIVES during 27 years of research. Tons of reports, experiments and reaserchers have been falsely miscredited. I would guess that right now it is heating up for IH. They probably get a lot of harassments, maybe even personal threats since the shareholders have been outed through the UK company. I’ve made a longer analysis here; http://sifferkoll.se

    • artefact

      Good analysis!

    • Hi all

      We wait.

      No use crying are we there yet?

      We wait.

      It will be officially released.

      Others may get hold of it and try to spin it.

      We wait.

      Kind Regards walker

    • Albert D. Kallal

      I have to agree with this.

      Remember, a HUGE list of players does
      NOT want this!

      I suspect that some investors are
      threating to pull out, and others are spreading rumors about how fake such technologies
      are.

      There is a HUGE list of people against
      this technology. Heck, just look at Bill Gates, Obama, and the UN all recently pledging
      BILLIONS to the UN and the IPCC.

      LENR means the global warming fraud is
      over. (global warming receives same amount of money now as cancer research)

      And remember, oil pulls BILLIONS of
      dollars into the hands of a few, and WHAT do those few do? Why they invest
      billions into funds!

      So the pressure by these folks to avoid
      IH and not do anything with LENR is huge.

      So governments, oil, foundations like
      Bill Gates – 100% ALL are against LENR and stand to lose billions.

      So, this will be a CREDIBILITY race. It
      just a matter of time before the mainstream press goes full outright against
      LENR.

      The only response to above is quite much
      what IH stated. This will be a credibility fight.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Hi all

        I think Bill Gates is pro LENR. 😉

        That some will spin against this is a given.

        They did the same to the Wright Brothers.

        And when the auto mobile came along.

        And the internet, I remember it. I can remember in 1998 the Head of Tesco distribution down in London laughing at me when I said that people would buy off the internet and that shops would loose out. My message went further up. Who do you think won that one?

        The people who ran Haymarkets were that era’s billionaires.

        The Haymarket in London is now theatre land. Ditto the Corn exchanges.

        The players against these advances all without exception lost, badly.

        When a Black Swan flies, best not stand in front of it.

        Kind Regards walker

        • Albert D. Kallal

          How is Gates pro LENR when he makes huge efforts to NOT mention it?

          That makes zero sense? If Gates is pro
          LENR then for what reason does he make GREAT PAINS to avoid speaking about LENR?

          He talks about nuclear, and traveling wave
          technology reactors (classic nuclear technology just re-badged with a fancy
          name – and with all the waste!). Gates NEVER EVER mentions LENR.

          So you must have missed me here somewhere along the way? Cleary Gates knows about LENR, so the deafening silence on his part is by design and by clear effort on his part.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Hi all

            Examine your logic for a second.

            We know Branjolena are invested. What have they said about LENR?

            Or any of the others who have invested over $1 Billion in IH.

            What is said, is no where near as important as what people do.

            Follow the money. 😉

            Kind Regards walker

          • Albert D. Kallal

            The difference here is that of recent Gates has been doing many public interviews on future technologies about energy – and not once has he mentioned the “potential” of lattice enabled nuclear reactions.

            We not talking or comparing his behavior to that of some investment firm spewing out investment papers, but a person making the rounds on TV and doing interviews about great new future energy technologies. That is the Grand Canyon of difference here.

            His actions shows silence on this issue,
            and by clear intention.

            So yes, I am following logic here, and a person spending time to do public interviews about future energy technologies and failing to mention LENR makes ZERO logical sense to me UNLESS such silence is by full intention.

            Running around doing TV interviews about great new future energy technologies and mentioning all kinds of possible new technologies but leaving out LENR is just dead obvious. Those other companies are not talking about any specific types of energy technologies – but Gates is in these interviews but is leaving out LENR.
            As I said – it call a Grand Canyon of difference here – that what logical thinking should show you here. (so yes, do examine my logic closer for a second)>

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Hi all

            Have you considered in cases like this investors are forced to sign a very restrictive cast iron NDA.

            The kind of NDA that say, say a single word and you get your money back NOTHING ELSE.

            He has been saying something is coming and smiling a lot, but not one word as to what it is.

            Kind Regards walker

          • I believe the reason for the silence at the Gates is exactly what IH is experiencing right now. He can only be vague since he doesn’t have a report good enough to back it up. It that sence Gates has too much to loose in credibility. It only takes some seconds to be beheaded by the mob, so there is no gain, but possibly a lot of pain. IH at least have a tremendous upside, but some of the shareholders are certainly disturbed by the heat right now. Thats one reason for the mail.

          • Mats002

            I don’t see any heat, only silence. Do you have more information about the heat?

      • Well, Big Bank & Oil have known about this for several years. Heck, even Putin and Saudis have known for some time. The academic powers and the politicians in the climate change industry though have everything to loose. They will go all in to stop progress. Right now they say it’s fraud but will happily forbid it anyway because of radiation …

    • Gerard McEk

      Thanks, that is a very good analysis.

    • interesting take. thanks.

  • Matt Sevrens

    Translation: “Guys no one said COP of 21 yet, chill the hype until we make the announcement”

  • Sanjeev

    And as suspected, Etiam Oy released their 4th report.
    http://etiam.fi/files/Report_part4.pdf
    Last page shows the results, but can’t say what the result is, its a teaser.
    Most likely a positive result, else why take the trouble of releasing many reports in high detail.

    • Ged

      I have missed the following of Etiam Oy. Would it be possible to get a summary? Their site is a little spartan, and I can’t currently view pdfs, but I am curious.

      • Sanjeev

        The part 4 describes the calibration process and output power calculations from calibration.
        The last page has a plot showing two curves for material x and material y, showing their output power against time. The result or conclusion will be given in part 5.
        The first 3 parts describe the setup and powder preparation etc.

  • Gerard McEk

    Frank, was this the first time you received post from Vaughn?
    Did he add anything to it?

    • Frank Acland

      I have had occasional email contact with JT Vaughn, but they are not very communicative. This is what he wrote: “You and others have recently made inquiries about the state of our LENR work. I have attached a statement which I hope will provide some clarity by describing our goals, our progress and our operating philosophy, because we want to distinguish Industrial Heat from some recent announcements. “

      • Mats002

        I wonder what those ‘recent announcements’ are.

        • Got to be MFMP

          • Bob Tivnan

            Or Peter Gluck’s announcement (rumour) in which he mentioned a COP of 21 connected to Rossi.

          • ah… right… ok that’s more likely imo. thanks.

      • Ged

        Wonder what announcements he means, unless the Etiam Oy Sanjeev mentioned is indeed lighting a fire, so they want to distinguish the ERV report from those guys.

        • Mats002

          MFMP made announcements recently, as did Rossi about Leonardo, what else to choose from?

          • Ged

            Hm… Has to be something corporately competative that could take investors away or otherwise threaten IH business.

          • Bob Greenyer

            – Appearance of SunCell
            – Validity of IP
            – Inability to hold on to key industrial secrets
            – Not able to validate Rossi’s claims on E-Cat X-Ray

      • “because we want to distinguish Industrial Heat from some recent announcements.’

        I guess that blows Sifferkoll’s idea out of the water. http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/

        the only recent LENR announcements that I can see are from MFMP and Mats Lewan.

        • Maybe, we’re guessing here. But my take is that he is sort of cleaning the table for the ERV report as compared to a couple of replications from Russia and China, including maybe MFMP and BLP.

          The way I see it IH is the buyer of the ERV report. Rossi/Leonardo is not, which he has stated a great number of times. That the ERV exists is verified from different sources. However we don’t know if and when IH plan to release it. Right now it seams like it hasn’t leaked. That is sort of what he is saying. There is also the possibility of external (name your favourite) pressure on the ERV organisation and IH to delay/ditch the report. If I were Woodford Capital I would like to see it though. So I’m positive from that point of view.

          • Guest

            Frank, my comments keep getting deleted for no reason (that I can see)…

            Which sources have confirmed that the ERV is preparing the report for IH (not just as audience, but as purchaser)? None. Rossi has said it publicly, and is likely the source for others who have repeated it, but nobody from IH has confirmed it.

            All of your information is flowing from Rossi, whether it’s coming directly from him, from Mats, or from others.

            This is exactly what IH’s statement is warning of – don’t believe anything unless it comes directly from their mouths. They are invested in Rossi, believe in him, but he doesn’t speak for them, and they don’t necessarily stand behind all of his statements.

            Honestly, if the ERV does come out, it won’t be from IH (it is against their interest to release something of that nature unless immediately followed by commercially available products). It will be through Rossi. And as such, IH is publicly stating that anything that is not confirmed directly by them has not been verified by them.

            If I were to venture a guess, I’d say an ERV report does get leaked by Rossi soon, but that the independent party is not as independent as hoped, the customer is not as independent as hoped, and because of that the results may simply be another addition to the endless cycle of overzealous hype that could ultimately cause people to ignore what is otherwise a really promising technology. There are real advances being made, but some of the posturing might be getting out of hand, and ultimately would be detrimental to the field. This is what makes IH nervous.

      • Got exactly the same wording.

      • Bob Greenyer

        All in the last 4 words

  • Ged

    The third party is obviously independent from IH as they bluntly state in this release. Sanjeev is referring to the customer using the 1 MW plant is probably IH.

  • HI all

    Time to begin watching the volume of trades on the stock exchange.

    And in particular the movements of major investors.

    Kind Regards walker

    • Mats002

      Hi Ian, some special trade to look for? Woodford?

      • Hi all

        In reply to Mats002

        Things like this affect many markets. Think broad picture. Think who will win and who will loose.

        These are strategic move times.

        Big Moves. By Big Players.

        Though many have set their pieces already, the Banks, Big Oil, China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, even Iran.

        Which industries are energy dependent on both sides of the coin.

        Watch and wait. 🙂

        Kind Regards walker

        • Bob Greenyer

          This will be the definition of a singularity.

          The significance of the markets KNOWING the End of the Carbon Age is Nigh is about as big as it could ever get.

    • EEStorFanFibb

      trade of what securities?

  • HI all

    Time to begin watching the volume of trades on the stock exchange.

    And in particular the movements of major investors.

    Kind Regards walker

    • Mats002

      Hi Ian, some special trade to look for? Woodford?

      • Hi all

        In reply to Mats002

        Things like this affect many markets. Think broad picture. Think who will win and who will loose.

        These are strategic move times.

        Big Moves. By Big Players.

        Though many have set their pieces already, the Banks, Big Oil, China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, even Iran.

        Which industries are energy dependent on both sides of the coin.

        Watch and wait. 🙂

        Kind Regards walker

        • Bob Greenyer

          This will be the definition of a singularity.

          The significance of the markets KNOWING the End of the Carbon Age is Nigh is about as big as it could ever get.

          • GreenWin

            GE fell below $30 yesterday on record volume 33.15M shares. GE should be talking to Mr. Darden… soon. Look for even higher volume in GE trades next couple weeks. Same with Boeing (remember they are prime contractor on NASAs LENR “SUGAR” project) and Airbus Innovations division.

          • Fossil fuels ‘probably dead,’ says Canadian Pacific Railway CEO Hunter Harrison http://www.thestarphoenix.com/business/11773470/story.html

          • Bob Greenyer

            Good find thanks, cross posted

    • trade of what securities?

    • JiW

      Price of oil has been going up since the end of the 350 day test?

  • Andreas Moraitis

    This looks to me like a safe harbour statement which is intended to protect IH against possible legal actions of future investors. Maybe they are even in the preliminary stage of an IPO – which I would welcome, provided that they will not choose the OTC market but NASDAQ at least. Of course, that’s only speculation, as usual.

    • That makes sense.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I think they would IPO when a VERY positive report had been verified and accepted by the scientific gatekeepers.

      • I believe it is even more important that the credibility of the organisation producing the report is rock solid. Best is a business organisation with long track record that is absolutely dependent on their credibility and where this kind of verifications is core business.

        Any “political” organisation (academic, ngo, etc) dependent on other type of financing than these kind of measurements will be wide open for personal and credibility attacks all the way down the spelling. Regardless of core competencies. We know that from Lugano.

        • Bob Greenyer

          The main problem with the Lugano team is that they did not read the emissivity page in their Optris manual. In reality, if we had done BEFORE determining empirically that the emissivity was above 0.9 for pure alumina for the Optris, we would have saved ourselves a whole lot of time, money and effort – but to know for certain through data what reality is made us feel more comfortable.

          The shame is the Lugano report authors did not address this and IH went on to publish the data in their patent application.

          • Maybe so.

            But the reality is that no scenario exists where the test would come out as flawless. There is always n+1 conspiracy theory or fraud hypothesis. The game has no rules, and Arxiv gatekeepers wouldn’t even consider publishing it regardless of how flawless it would have been.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Sure – but the Lugano team made a very big mistake on which all the calculations were based – Moreover they have failed to even acknowledge it (publicly).

      • winebuff67

        I agree, what would be the basis for the ipo without an earth shattering report alng with multiple verifications by people that the market trusts. Look at ipo’s last couple years overall not great.

    • GreenWin

      Yes. It DOES look like Safe Harbour – suggesting other statements may be suspect. looks like a counter to Dottore’s gung ho pursuit of E-Cat X which IH has little or no investment in and could undermine warm-Cat sales. Surprising Mr. Darden has not locked up “derivative works ” in his Rossi license. IF the E-Cat X does direct electric generation sans heat, IH may find themselves owners of a boat anchor… I wouldn’t be surprised to find this is a card played in negotiation for exclusive E-Cat X IP to Industrial Heat. IF IH suddenly begins talking about X, it will confirm this speculation.

      Still, a good thing to hear that IH has not put all eggs in the E-Cat basket, but has diversified their LENR portfolio to include competing tech – all good news for IH investors (esp Woodford Patient Cap) there is a HUGE market for these products requiring different vertical tech – everyone can win provided there is no big schism with varied IP. Good News keeps rolling in! Early adopters can rejoice – MYs continue to sharpen those seppuku knives. Warm regards… 🙂

      • Guest

        They have derivative works rights, even Rossi stated that they have rights to the E-Cat X.

        That said, I think your read that they are trying to dampen some of the good Dottore’s public statements is spot on. Read into that what you will.

      • Check that. other people on this site think the ECat X is also under license with IH.

  • Stephen

    If their LENR business is much larger than E-cat only as I now start to suspect, I wonder if they are concerned about how to announce the results of this particular test in a way that does not adversely affect their development plans and future anouncemnts for other parts of the business. I hope they find a way to announce something though especially if it can give us a positive hope.

    • Bob Greenyer

      It could be that they have definite confirmation and have to re-organise their priorities.

      • Ged

        That’s something they do say afterall.

  • Stephen

    If their LENR business is much larger than E-cat only as I now start to suspect, I wonder if they are concerned about how to announce the results of this particular test in a way that does not adversely affect their development plans and future anouncemnts for other parts of the business. I hope they find a way to announce something though especially if it can give us a positive hope.

    • Bob Greenyer

      It could be that they have definite confirmation and have to re-organise their priorities.

      • Ged

        That’s something they do say afterall.

      • jimbo92107

        To me the statement was a business-speak hint that they are about to kick major ass around March 17th.

  • Guest

    Putting this out there… IH has never made a single statement or confirmation about a 1 year test, or about the ERV Report. Go back and look at public comments (hint: they are all Rossi’s…).

    I’m not trying to disappoint everyone, and this is not to say that a 1 year test has not been underway, but that has been Rossi’s test, not IH’s. Rossi has included IH in his comments about the test, but in all of the interviews Tom Darden has given he talks about Lugano as the test.

    Based on their historical comments (‘no more public tests’), and frankly their financial interests, IH would never make any information from an “ERV Report” public, unless it was attached to an immediately available commercial product.

    SO, if that information does become public, you can be assured it comes from Rossi, not from IH, and any assertions about the independence of the customer and ERV are Rossi’s assertions, not IH’s. They don’t say believe statements if they come from IH OR Leonardo/Rossi…

    At the same time, they express optimism about the LENR technologies in their portfolio, so even if Ross has theoretically gotten ahead of himself or exaggerated the independence of this test, that doesn’t mean they’re not bullish on the underlying tech.

  • Brokeeper

    In support of what LuFong stated earlier the question arises how are we to view Andrea Rossi’s role within IH by the statement:
    “Industrial Heat has licensed, acquired or invested in several LENR technologies from around the world. We have developed a group of LENR thought leaders, and we have built a world-class engineering team.” ?
    Ever since IH had licensed Leonardo’s IP, Rossi has been Chief Scientist:

    Frank Acland
    October 2nd, 2013 at 8:28 AM

    Dear Andrea,
    In your work as chief scientist, how many different teams and research projects
    are you overseeing these days?
    Best wishes,
    Frank Acland
    ———————————————-
    Andrea Rossi
    October 2nd, 2013 at 10:36 AM

    Frank Acland:
    Three
    Warm regards
    AR
    ———————————————-
    Is Rossi overseeing separate R&D teams for other LENR technologies, such as Brillouin, licensed to IH or is the “several LENR technologies from around the world” strictly dealing with only the Rossi Effect technologies divided into several projects as he stated before:

    Andrea Rossi
    January 27th, 2014 at 10:22 AM

    Joseph J:
    Regarding the so called Rossi Effect, I am the chief scientist at Industrial
    Heat.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Again, could it be he is no longer the Chief Scientist but one leading scientist among others within the world-class engineering team?
    In conclusion the “several LENR technologies from around the world” are all related to the Rossi effect, Rossi is overseeing multiple LENR technologies outside his own or he is no longer Chief Scientist within Industrial Heat. Are there any other scenarios?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Any VC firm will hedge their bets.

      • deleo77

        To me the most important line is below. Just a far fetched guess but is it possible that Rossi and IH did their own measurements of the e-cat over the past year independent of each other and got different results?

        “That’s why any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.”

        • Bob Greenyer

          Maybe they want to run another 1 year test, you know, just to make sure.

          • Owen Geiger

            With you at the helm in the shipping container this time? Ha ha.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Er… no.

        • MLWerner

          I think this is more of a way to blunt any leaks of the report before they are ready to release it. “If you didn’t hear it from us, its not the whole truth.”

    • LuFong

      IH acquired certain rights to Rossi’s low temperature E-Cat (Leonardo still owns it) and after more than a year of working with it (including the 1 year test) the technology has been completely transferred to IH people. Rossi is probably still associated with IH as the inventor and chief scientist related to this technology (and probably a major share or option holder as well) but he’s no longer actively involved in dealing with the 1MW plant or its improvements. Just my guess based on Rossi and IH’s words.

  • Brokeeper

    In support of what LuFong stated earlier the question arises how are we to view Andrea Rossi’s role within IH by the statement:
    “Industrial Heat has licensed, acquired or invested in several LENR technologies from around the world. We have developed a group of LENR thought leaders, and we have built a world-class engineering team.” ?
    Ever since IH had licensed Leonardo’s IP, Rossi has been Chief Scientist:

    Frank Acland
    October 2nd, 2013 at 8:28 AM

    Dear Andrea,
    In your work as chief scientist, how many different teams and research projects
    are you overseeing these days?
    Best wishes,
    Frank Acland
    ———————————————-
    Andrea Rossi
    October 2nd, 2013 at 10:36 AM

    Frank Acland:
    Three
    Warm regards
    AR
    ———————————————-
    Is Rossi overseeing separate R&D teams for other LENR technologies, such as Brillouin, licensed to IH or is the “several LENR technologies from around the world” strictly dealing with only the Rossi Effect technologies divided into several projects as he stated before:

    Andrea Rossi
    January 27th, 2014 at 10:22 AM

    Joseph J:
    Regarding the so called Rossi Effect, I am the chief scientist at Industrial
    Heat.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Again, could it be he is no longer the Chief Scientist but one leading scientist among others within the world-class engineering team?
    In conclusion the “several LENR technologies from around the world” are all related to the Rossi effect or Rossi is overseeing multiple LENR technologies outside his own or just another leading scientist among others. Remember he is now working on the E-Cat X in his own Leonardo lab in Miami separate from IH labs. Are there any other scenarios?

    • Guest

      Here’s the other scenario… the words you’re relying on are Rossi’s, not IH’s. Which per above they’re cautioning you not to believe anything at face value other than what IH has explicitly stated.

      Just relying on common sense – you know Rossi is not overseeing anything at Brillouin, the folks there would not just step back and let him direct them… So if IH has invested in Brillouin (I’m not questioning this, just using this as a logic experiment), and the likelihood of Rossi overseeing Brillouin’s work is nil, then Rossi clearly is not overseeing all LENR technologies IH is invested in.

      I would venture to guess that Rossi represents one of their largest, most promising investments, and that Rossi oversees all E-Cat related iterations of the technology (i.e. “regarding the so called Rossi Effect, I am the Chief Scientist”), but that they are invested in several other LENR researchers/technologies which may have different approaches than those utilized by Rossi, and are not being led by him.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Any VC firm will hedge their bets.

  • Curbina

    This IH public statement looks terrible for all of us E-cat followers, but I think that the take of Siferkoll is probably a likely explanation of it happening right now.

    • f sedei

      “Loose Lips Sink Ships” warning ? Or, just professional paranoia ? Things might be getting REAL serious at IH.

  • IH is trying to get in front of something with this not so public release (only emailed to three LENR advocates/site publishers)….. Peter Gluck has implied on his blog and on the LENR forum that the cop is likely 21 iirc. And that said he wants the executive summary released soon – and is trying to push that release ahead – and said last week he thought it might come out “tonight or tomorrow” iirc. – which didn’t happen.

    Frank got this from JT Vaughn along with the release. “You and others have recently made inquiries about the state of our LENR
    work. I have attached a statement which I hope will provide some
    clarity by describing our goals, our progress and our operating
    philosophy, because we want to distinguish Industrial Heat from some
    recent announcements. ”

    Peter are you in the dog house now?

  • Alberonn

    Is this terrible ringing sound my tinnitus finally going berserk ? …or is it all alarmbells going off all at once ? It may seem paranoia and I sincerely hope it is, but could it be that IH – we know next to nothing about them- are performing a covert ‘vacuum-cleaning job’ in the LENR field ?? Are they buying all promising LENR-efforts/projects in order to allow the US-MIC/PTB to gain absolute control over this development ? It would explain the stalling (1-year testperiod, etc) we have seen during the last two/three years ?! Anybody reassure me and tell me with RATIONAL terms why I am paranoia…

  • Maybe a detail, but the IH domain web url http//:www.industrialheat.co (note: not .com) used to point at this press release: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/industrial-heat-has-acquired-andrea-rossis-e-cat-technology-241853361.html
    Now the server cannot be found.
    Maybe a new web site under preparation? With som new info, a certain report etc…?

    • Ged

      Sure is looking that way. This report must be bigger than expected to cause such shake ups, one way or the other.

    • Veblin

      Industrial Heat has the domains industrialheat .co .com .info .net .org .us

      • Right, I imagined that the .co domain was intended for pre-launch use, and that a more common top level domain, e.g. .com, would be used for main operations.

  • Maybe a detail, but the IH domain web url http//:www.industrialheat.co (note: not .com) used to point at this press release: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/industrial-heat-has-acquired-andrea-rossis-e-cat-technology-241853361.html
    Now the server cannot be found.
    Maybe a new web site under preparation? With som new info, a certain report etc…?

    • Ged

      Sure is looking that way. This report must be bigger than expected to cause such shake ups, one way or the other.

    • Veblin

      Industrial Heat has the domains industrialheat .co .com .info .net .org .us

      • Right, I imagined that the .co domain was intended for pre-launch use, and that a more common top level domain, e.g. .com, would be used for main operations.

  • Oh, another detail.
    The email from JT Vaughn was sent in CC to a person working at the global public affairs and strategic communications consultancy firm APCO Worldwide. Experts overseeing public communication.

    • Ged

      So they hired high class consultants for crafting the statement? Some serious business indeed.

    • Curbina

      Subtle hints of a big chess game going behind the curtains, perhaps? Well, hope we know sooner than later. A significant date is aproaching (March 23rd, another aniversary of Fleischmann and Pons original press release). May this be a completely different aniversary, with some warm tea?

      • Bob Greenyer

        March 23rd would be the right day…

        • A Saturday. I wonder if weekend days are bad form for huge announcements.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Not is Arabia – It is a normal working day 😉

    • Bob Greenyer

      iiiiiiiiinteresting…

      Well – By end of play tomorrow, University of Missouri may have replicated… then again – they might not… but if they DID, then they have every top end tool under the sun to train at their humble *GlowStick*

      • Stephen

        Yup I was thourghly impressed by the range of sensors you mention they have at their disposal. Wow. I hope the see something the data will be awesome.

        • Bob Greenyer

          They have just informed me they do not work weekends – so it will run over next week.

    • Hi all

      Second biggest in the world and specialists in major events and world crises and politically sensitive issues. Their customers include many of the biggest multinationals as well as governments and major politicians.

      Interesting 🙂

      Kind regards walker

      • Bob Greenyer

        So… not your average local newspaper copywriters then…

        • Hi all

          No 🙂

          One of their clients is Microsoft another is the Clinton’s and a whole bunch of other very interesting people.

          Kind Regards walker

          • Ged

            Expensive folks!

          • Bob Greenyer

            Big fish… well if they can keep Hillary out of jail until she can grant herself immunity – then they are worth every penny.

    • FINALLY! — The big reveal draws near!

      A company that has bent over backwards to remain nearly invisible doesn’t hire a world-renowned PR company unless they have SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT TO SAY.

      • Ged

        Considering how much money they must be spending on those guys, that is certainly true.

        • Kind of fits the profile of what I would expect for a firm to handle a tricky announcement. From the wiki page for them:

          “Most public relations firms focus on corporate communications, but APCO is usually hired to handle sensitive political and crisis management issues. Many APCO executives are former prominent government officials, politicians and ambassadors. APCO’s clientele consists of multi-national corporations, governments, politicians, associations and nonprofit organizations.”

          • sam

            They should have Vessela Nikolova announce the test
            results.She could handle it.
            She is Italian and her and .A.R
            seem to hit it off.

          • tuder

            I believe Vessela Nikolova is Russian

          • sam

            Still a good choice.
            She would cost less also.
            Not that the money is coming
            out of my pocket.

    • Buck
    • presumably to show the APCO person that IH has released the
      communiqué as discussed. as in …. “Hey Bob, Phase 1 of Operation “Slipstream” is a go” ???

  • jimbo92107

    Okay, here’s the plan: To keep our underwear from bunching up, let’s all stop wearing underwear for the next seven days. You don’t have to tell anybody, this is purely for your comfort during this stressful week.

    • Ged

      Assuming the EVR lands after 7 days, don’t know for sure! But I am certain we’ll make it to whatever surprise is in store ;).

    • Matt Sevrens

      Why 7 days?

      • jimbo92107

        Well until the Big Report comes out. After that, you’re free to keep doing it, of course…

    • Bob Greenyer

      How to keep in comuni comando eh?

  • jimbo92107

    Okay, here’s the plan: To keep our underwear from bunching up, let’s all stop wearing underwear for the next seven days. You don’t have to tell anybody, this is purely for your comfort during this stressful week.

    • Ged

      Assuming the EVR lands after 7 days, don’t know for sure! But I am certain we’ll make it to whatever surprise is in store ;).

    • Matt Sevrens

      Why 7 days?

      • jimbo92107

        Well until the Big Report comes out. After that, you’re free to keep doing it, of course…

    • Bob Greenyer

      How to keep in comuni comando eh?

  • Matt Sevrens

    All this has done is make us speculate more. Hype hype hype. The line “Embracing failure as well as success is important, because we learn from both” could actually mean the one year test was negative

    • Bob Greenyer

      If it was positive – it would be very much to their benefit to claim it wasn’t.

      One cannot imagine the combined might of the oil/gas/coal/solar/giga factory/wind/old nuclear/hydro etc lobby groups and the incredible power of several trillion in investments that would suddenly start to look bad.

      • Matt Sevrens

        Honestly the LENR community is relatively small. I feel that most people aren’t attending as much as we think.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Oh you are right there – but this announcement wasn’t for us… it was for people that might want to explore any announcement that IH make in the future.

          • Matt Sevrens

            I guess, but wasn’t this sent to explicitly: Infinite Energy Magazine, E-catword, and Mats Lewan? It’s not a press release, it’s a letter to us. Mysteries, mysteries…

          • Ged

            And who knows whom else. One doesn’t hire PR consultants specialized in major events and world crises just to send a letter to us.

          • Brent Buckner

            I think there are a lot of audiences. That explicit list may be related to levels of readership and who has highlighted “claims made about technologies in our [IH’s] portfolio”

      • kenko1

        The oil/gas/coal/solar/giga factory/wind/old nuclear/hydro etc lobby groups know everything. A few well placed mic’s, camera’s, moles , informants can monitor everything quite effectively. If they’re doin it to Steorn, you can bet IH-Rossi-LENR are in their crosshairs.

  • Stephen

    I wonder if they are evaluating and assessing more projects than e-cat? maybe they have also been under 1 year tests etc? That would need quite a business plan to manage I guess.

    If they can present a portfolio of independent results with at least some positive data from different projects that will be very hard to ignore. I’d be more than happy with just one result though.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      That is surely what they want us to believe.

  • BTW, maybe someone would be interested to ask a few questions on LENR and IH to Woodford on Monday March 14:
    “At 2pm on Monday, 14 March, we will be hosting a live text-based question and answer session with Neil Woodford on our blog. Neil will answer as many of your questions as possible on economic, market and investment-related topics…”
    https://woodfordfunds.com/qa-neil-woodford/

    • Brent Buckner

      Yes, and there’s a particular angle available respective of WPCT’s consideration of more fund-raising. “New cash would also likely be used for further investment into the
      existing holdings when they wish to raise new cash to help with research
      and development.” per http://www.cityam.com/232267/fund-manager-neil-woodfords-patient-capital-trust-mulls-raising-more-money

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Mats: Thanks for the heads up.

    • sam

      Is that Swedish time Mats.
      Do you just go on your
      Blog at that time to ask Questions.
      Thanks Sam

      • As you say, there is no reason to go public now, and probably won’t be in the foreseeable future, unless they ever decide to mass market some LENR product, which seems unlikely. Series or batch production of industrial heaters won’t need marketing, as word of mouth and ‘leaks’ will sell anything they can produce. Those awaiting some kind of big splash have a long wait ahead I’m afraid.

        • EEStorFanFibb

          Agreed.

    • I’ve asked few questions yesterday, but they don’t appear.
      basically it was asking position on their investment, strategy on LENR blackswan (hedging, positional), impact on other position, and general vision on the impact on the economy…

      I hope it is registered.

  • BTW, maybe someone would be interested to ask a few questions on LENR and IH to Woodford on Monday March 14:
    “At 2pm on Monday, 14 March, we will be hosting a live text-based question and answer session with Neil Woodford on our blog. Neil will answer as many of your questions as possible on economic, market and investment-related topics…”
    https://woodfordfunds.com/qa-neil-woodford/

    • Brent Buckner

      Yes, and there’s a particular angle available respective of WPCT’s consideration of more fund-raising. “New cash would also likely be used for further investment into the
      existing holdings when they wish to raise new cash to help with research
      and development.” per http://www.cityam.com/232267/fund-manager-neil-woodfords-patient-capital-trust-mulls-raising-more-money

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Mats: Thanks for the heads up.

    • sam

      Is that Swedish time Mats.
      Do you just go on your
      Blog at that time to ask Questions.
      Thanks Sam

    • I’ve asked few questions yesterday, but they don’t appear.
      basically it was asking position on their investment, strategy on LENR blackswan (hedging, positional), impact on other position, and general vision on the impact on the economy…

      I hope it is registered.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    To me it still sounds like a basic disagreement between IH and Rossi, it might be a fight to control Leonardo and the IP? IH may be playing Rossi off by just saying or actually investing in “other” LENR technologies? What turns me off is IH rhetoric, “Industrial Heat’s objective is to make clean, safe and affordable energy available everywhere, and in doing this we want to build a company that demonstrates respect for all.”These are friendly nice words but there is clearly a fight going on for who will control LENR: with a huge amount of money at stake.

    • I think that is pure fantasy and nonsense.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Hi Chris: You do not think there is a lot of money involved? You do not think there is a power struggle going on for a big share of the LENR market?

        • Rossi and Industrial Heat are on the same team. They have legal agreements already signed and in place. You are talking nonsense.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Excuse me. You have no idea of the contents of the “legal agreements” between Rossi, Leonardo, and IH. If you have seen them please post them here. You are whistling in the dark my friend.

          • MLWerner

            Not any more whistling than your original conjecture.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Just giving you my opinion, disregard it if you like. I do know Rossi refuses to answer my question (spams it) when I ask him about his relationship with IH. The only question of mine he spams.

          • LarryJ

            Rossi just posted in the last couple of days that IH are their licensees and there are no problems between them. I think people are letting their imaginations get the better of them.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            I need that quote, please publish here. I think what he said is IH is only their licensee and Leonardo holds the IP, said nothing about “no problems”.

          • Frank Acland

            There’s also Hydro Fusion is Sweden who Rossi is praising recently. BTW, from the JONP:Ing. Michelangelo De Meo

            March 11, 2016 at 3:44 AM
            Hello Dr. Rossi:
            Can you comment these statements Industrial Heat ?
            https://animpossibleinvention.com/2016/03/10/industrial-heat-makes-announcement/

            Andrea Rossi
            March 11, 2016 at 9:04 AM
            Ing. Michelangel De Meo:
            Our Licensee Industrial Heat has illustrated clearly its present strategy related to its Territory.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • LarryJ

            Andrea Rossi
            March 11, 2016 at 9:16 AM

            Velda Funderburke:

            Thank you for spotting this issue: there is absolutely no divorce
            between Leonardo Corporation and any of its Licensees, included
            Industrial Heat. Industrial Heat is the legitimate licensee of Leonardo
            Corporation for its Territory and I never referred to any possible
            divorce.

            I invite anybody to disregard any innuendo, supposition, speculation
            related to the licenses of Leonardo Corporation unless they are
            communicated directly from Leonardo Corporation.

            There is some imbecile that tries to get audience inventing situations that do not exist.

            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • bachcole

            A conservative Christian might call the imbecile the Devil. I will call it people’s tendency to gossip, exaggerate, lie, make mistakes, be careless with their words, etc. etc. etc.

          • bachcole

            I would imagine that people with their attitudes and LENR’s potential would have NO problems getting along.

  • Matt Sevrens

    What does ERV stand for?

    • Buck

      (Independent) Experts Responsible for Verification

  • Matt Sevrens

    What does ERV stand for?

    • Buck

      (Independent) Experts Responsible for Verification

  • Observer

    I get the impression that this letter is directed to the LENR investments in IH’s portfolio that are not Leonardo Corporation. If I was one of the other LENR projects, I would get very nervous about continued funding with all of the current Rossi related chatter.

    • Brent Buckner

      Yes, I think those investments are part of the audience. Comments about “respect for all”, “multiple technologies”, and “Embracing failure as well as success is important, because we learn from both.” go to that.

  • Observer

    I get the impression that this letter is directed to the LENR investments in IH’s portfolio that are not Leonardo Corporation. If I was one of the other LENR projects, I would get very nervous about continued funding with all of the current Rossi related chatter.

    • Brent Buckner

      Yes, I think those investments are part of the audience. Comments about “respect for all”, “multiple technologies”, and “Embracing failure as well as success is important, because we learn from both.” go to that.

  • Andrew

    Very interesting!

    ” We have developed a group of LENR thought leaders, and we have built a world-class engineering team. ”

    This seems to corroborate some of “Rossi says” comments from the past. Any conformation is good conformation.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Right, “thought leaders” look out guys the PR people have taken over!

      • Teemu Soilamo

        Expect to hear the words “proactive” and “paradigm” a lot from now on.

        • MasterBlaster7

          They can say whatever they want to say as long as we start seeing product in a reasonable amount of time.

          • Sandy

            I believe that Industrial Heat sincerely wants “to make clean, safe and affordable energy available everywhere”. However, I also believe that LENR technologies have been suppressed by the powers that be for more than 20 years. Those powers are currently driving down the price of petroleum in order to allow LENR technologies to be introduced in a way that will not cause large disruptions in energy markets. And, for that reason, I tend to take Industrial Heat’s pronouncements with a grain of salt. They are sincere, but they are also propagandizing.

          • jimbo92107

            I’m not sure “suppressed” is the right word, although it’s clear that after 1989 there was a concerted effort to discredit a technology that was a long way from being understood. What did happen, probably to protect Big Energy’s turf, was that cold-fusion was financially orphaned as an area of research.

            Fortunately, humans do not need a lot of money to conduct some very clever research. But a lack of proper funding may well have slowed down progress by at least a decade.

            LENR requires understanding of materials and interactions at nanoscopic and atomic levels. That level of understanding is just recently becoming a reality, and many more revelations may be yet to come as we learn to play this new game with hybrid phases of matter.

          • you say it well, but it is to protect Big Science.

            Big Oil investigated, and still do.
            Big Cars too.
            Big planes too.
            Big money too.

            problem is with :
            Big science
            Big editors
            big news
            big government.

            the big people who get money not from reality and products but from consensus.

  • Andrew

    Very interesting!

    ” We have developed a group of LENR thought leaders, and we have built a world-class engineering team. ”

    This seems to corroborate some of “Rossi says” comments from the past. Any conformation is good conformation.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Right, “thought leaders” look out guys the PR people have taken over!

      • Teemu Soilamo

        Expect to hear the words “proactive” and “paradigm” a lot from now on.

        • MasterBlaster7

          They can say whatever they want to say as long as we start seeing product in a reasonable amount of time.

  • Michel Vandenberghe

    “..Respect for all..” IH is not the only player and major actors are currently assessing their strategy…They got this email. My 2 cents…

  • Michel Vandenberghe

    “..Respect for all..” IH is not the only player and major actors are currently assessing their strategy…They got this email. My 2 cents…

  • MasterBlaster7

    That was a whole lot of words that gave absolutely zero information. F’ing PR guys; haha.

    • Matt Sevrens

      I know right?

    • roseland67

      Other than “confirmed by us”
      They didn’t even add Rossi to the list, just us,
      As in IH, no one else.

  • MasterBlaster7

    That was a whole lot of words that gave absolutely zero information. F’ing PR guys; haha.

    • Matt Sevrens

      I know right?

    • roseland67

      Other than “confirmed by us”
      They didn’t even add Rossi to the list, just us,
      As in IH, no one else.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    It’s strange to hear this kind of bland non-announcement after they’ve successfully funded a reactor that’s produced a well-documented one megawatt of energy for one year with a penny-pinch of inexpensive chemicals. I’d better write I.H. a letter and let them know that they’ve just finished saving our civilization and have collaterally made themselves ten trillion dollars over the next ten years.

  • deleo77

    To me the most important line is below. Just a far fetched guess but is it possible that Rossi and IH did their own measurements of the e-cat over the past year independent of each other and got different results?

    “That’s why any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.”

    • Bob Greenyer

      Maybe they want to run another 1 year test, you know, just to make sure.

      • Owen Geiger

        With you at the helm in the shipping container this time? Ha ha.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Er… no.

    • Guest

      warmer.

      or that IH did not participate in measurement at all because this was Rossi’s test, not theirs…

      • deleo77

        Maybe that would be a good question for Rossi. Did IH fully back the test and will they stand behind the results? Perhaps the results of the test are bound to leak soon, but IH doesn’t stand behind them. So they preempted it with this statement.

        • BillH

          If IH don’t confirm AH’s results then this story is over, for the reason given above.

      • BillH

        AR might be IH’s chief engineer but he has often said he is working closely on site with IH engineers, these engineers will know full well who is paying their salary and who their loyalties should lie with, and that isn’t AH.

    • MLWerner

      I think this is more of a way to blunt any leaks of the report before they are ready to release it. “If you didn’t hear it from us, its not the whole truth.”

  • AdrianAshfield

    From the few known facts and the Delphi Oracle like statement from IH I guess that:
    1. The 1 MW plant works. They must have known this for months.
    2. But for the E-Cat X it would have been set for quantity manufacturing.
    3. The E-Cat X is so much better this is the future. Rossi says so.
    4. How to contain the disappointment of further delay? Required because the E-Cat X has only reached its configuration recently. It still needs a long term test – possibly only six months this time as the basics are known. How to avoid competition meanwhile from others who would not bother with a long term test.

    • jimbo92107

      At the rate Rossi and friends are improving these designs, I would hold off on manufacturing until the last moment.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Apple gets away with selling 2 year old tech on a regular basis.

        I think they would be wise to grab market share – giving the lead to Brilliant Light Power in my opinion would be suicidal.

  • AdrianAshfield

    From the few known facts and the Delphi Oracle like statement from IH I guess that:
    1. The 1 MW plant works. They must have known this for months.
    2. But for the E-Cat X it would have been set for quantity manufacturing.
    3. The E-Cat X is so much better this is the future. Rossi says so.
    4. How to contain the disappointment of further delay? Required because the E-Cat X has only reached its configuration recently. It still needs a long term test – possibly only six months this time as the basics are known. How to avoid competition meanwhile from others who would not bother with a long term test.
    5. If they have the guts, they could start building a manufacturing line without waiting for the test results. If the basic unit is only for 100 W it wouldn’t have to be big and expensive. It could have some built in flexibility.

    • jimbo92107

      At the rate Rossi and friends are improving these designs, I would hold off on manufacturing until the last moment.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Apple gets away with selling 2 year old tech on a regular basis.

        I think they would be wise to grab market share – giving the lead to Brilliant Light Power in my opinion would be suicidal.

  • Bob Matulis

    If I had incontrovertible proof “Cold Fusion” is real and had a plant that worked one year to prove it I would hire the best PR firm in the world to handle the announcement. It cannot be overstated how tricky re-introducing “Cold Fusion” to a skeptical world will be. Bravo in the PR firm selection!

    • Bob Greenyer

      Also – it will cause a crisis in science – suddenly, all across the world, people working on huge monolithic multi-country funded reactors in old and new nuclear will suddenly find out that there is finally something that works and is safe to sink their intellect into.

      • DrD

        How many careers will be displaced?

        • Bob Greenyer

          The most ever.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It depends – if the ash only has short lived X-Rays, Protons or Alpha – these are all fine.

            If we are to assume it is WELL beyond chemical, then it is likely to be nuclear – therefore, no certifying authority would claim it was safe until they have the ash in their labs having extracted it themselves.

          • Warthog

            Deservedly so!

          • Bob Greenyer

            Oh yeh baby! Creative destruction – this will be the definition of the term.

  • Bob Matulis

    If I had incontrovertible proof “Cold Fusion” is real and had a plant that worked one year to prove it I would hire the best PR firm in the world to handle the announcement. It cannot be overstated how tricky re-introducing “Cold Fusion” to a skeptical world will be. Bravo in the PR firm selection!

    • Bob Greenyer

      Also – it will cause a crisis in science – suddenly, all across the world, people working on huge monolithic multi-country funded reactors in old and new nuclear will suddenly find out that there is finally something that works and is safe to sink their intellect into.

      • DrD

        How many careers will be displaced?

        • Bob Greenyer

          The most ever.

          • Warthog

            Deservedly so!

          • Bob Greenyer

            Oh yeh baby! Creative destruction – this will be the definition of the term.

    • BillH

      For a start, they would never call it Cold Fusion, doh!

  • Matt Sevrens

    If they’re trying to express something clearly with this they’re not. Because after reading this a bunch of times, and everyone’s analysis of it I still have no idea what they’re trying to communicate. So what is the message here?

    • Bob Greenyer

      The message

      “We have it, keep your money with us and don’t believe anything anyone else says.”

      • blanco69

        Agreed. However, I would add to that the following meaning. “Dont believe Rossi, (or for that matter Godes or Hagelstein or Swartz) unless we specifically back them up.”

        “…any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat…”
        Or it could mean they are attempting to throw cold water on an upcomming announcement from a competitor – maybe in Russia.

    • Omega Z

      “what idea they’re trying to communicate”

      Nothing as always when people ask questions.

      Neither confirming or denying anything & Being very vague

      This is Darden’s/Industrial heat’s version of (F9)…

  • Matt Sevrens

    If they’re trying to express something clearly with this they’re not. Because after reading this a bunch of times, and everyone’s analysis of it I still have no idea what they’re trying to communicate. So what is the message here?

    • Bob Greenyer

      The message

      “We have it, keep your money with us and don’t believe anything anyone else says.”

      • blanco69

        Agreed. However, I would add to that the following meaning. “Dont believe Rossi, (or for that matter Godes or Hagelstein or Swartz) unless we specifically back them up.”

        “…any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat…”
        Or it could mean they are attempting to throw cold water on an upcomming announcement from a competitor – maybe in Russia.

    • Omega Z

      “what idea they’re trying to communicate”

      Nothing as always when people ask questions.

      Neither confirming or denying anything & Being very vague

      This is Darden’s/Industrial heat’s version of (F9)…

  • Sandy

    I believe that Industrial Heat sincerely wants “to make clean, safe and affordable energy available everywhere”. However, I also believe that LENR technologies have been suppressed by the powers that be for more than 20 years. Those powers are currently driving down the price of petroleum in order to allow LENR technologies to be introduced in a way that will not cause large disruptions in energy markets. And, for that reason, I tend to take Industrial Heat’s pronouncements with a grain of salt. They are sincere, but they are also propagandizing.

    • jimbo92107

      I’m not sure “suppressed” is the right word, although it’s clear that after 1989 there was a concerted effort to discredit a technology that was a long way from being understood. What did happen, probably to protect Big Energy’s turf, was that cold-fusion was financially orphaned as an area of research.

      Fortunately, humans do not need a lot of money to conduct some very clever research. But a lack of proper funding may well have slowed down progress by at least a decade.

      LENR requires understanding of materials and interactions at nanoscopic and atomic levels. That level of understanding is just recently becoming a reality, and many more revelations may be yet to come as we learn to play this new game with hybrid phases of matter.

      • you say it well, but it is to protect Big Science.

        Big Oil investigated, and still do.
        Big Cars too.
        Big planes too.
        Big money too.

        problem is with :
        Big science
        Big editors
        big news
        big government.

        the big people who get money not from reality and products but from consensus.

  • Buck

    We have all wondered about the nature of the statement.

    I believe a good way to describe it is as a “positioning statement”. It clearly defines what IH considers important to maintaining a balance in the face of all the known challenges, including the vested interests. It gives very little away, yet it clearly describes where IH, the “person”, stands and how they are prepared to enter and respond to the forces that will be impacted by IH’s public announcement.

    It has done a good job apparently given when you integrate into a picture how we all have responded to the statement. They are prepared to Indian-wrestle . . . to maintain their balance in the face of the consequent storm. They are not to be trifled with.

    IMHO

    • LookMoo

      Market communication written by a lawyer. Says nothing therefore no legal or investment exposure.

      • More likely written by some one in behavioral science and approved by a lawyer. It communicates a lot between the lines, allthough still vague enough so that everyone can interpret it in accordance with their preconceptions. It’s all about psychology. It’s a brilliant piece of work.

        • Roland

          Meme Reconstruction 101.

  • NCkhawk

    I think that the statement from IH is interesting and informative and seems intended as a high-ground positioning move. I am wondering why Rossi hasn’t mentioned it on JNOP? Instead he has just referenced an old Darden interview with Marianne Macy that references “competitors”. His David vs Goliath Q &A also seems quite strange as well. Is anyone else getting the feeling that the Q&A narrative is contrived? I sense is that we’re moving into a very interesting and entertaining season.

  • Rene

    About the only thing I get out that market-speak is that Rossi is not the only ‘LENR thought leader’ they are funding. He may be their only positive, though, but that the failures of others is a learning experience.

    • Omega Z

      Darden had started funding prior to Rossi. I think Rossi was around number 3 or 4 to recieve any kind of funding.

      Here are 2 that have been mentioned
      Brillouin energy
      JET Energy NANOR device “Peter Hagelstein, Mitchell Swartz”

  • Alain Samoun

    To me the main paragraph is:
    “any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat ”
    It can be interpreted as warning against leaks from the one year test, but also as a criticism of Rossi for talking too much especially of the E-CATX

    • Omega Z

      It can be interpreted as warning against speculations about reports and posts from Mats Lewan, MFMP and such.

      I also believe Rossi’s extensive use of (F9) covers what he says as not confirmed. However, that doesn’t stop people from runaway speculation.

      Obviously, Rossi has posted on JONP for years. If he were now to suddenly stop, that would create it’s own path of speculations, so as long as Rossi maintains the (F9), I doubt Darden and Industrial heat have an issue with it.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Our data explained the Bologna pulse for the first time. From the X-Rays observed, we derived that he had to have lead in the E-Cat and Tungsten in the Hot Cat – both of which the crowd has confirmed by searching his JoNP statements where he said exactly these things and the running radiation we observed is exactly in the range he has claimed in the past. These are not mere speculations – this is data based on running the fuel combination in his patent resulting in outcomes he has put on record in the past.

  • Alain Samoun

    To me the main paragraph is:
    “any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat ”
    It can be interpreted as warning against leaks from the one year test, but also as a criticism of Rossi for talking too much especially of the E-CATX

    • Omega Z

      It can be interpreted as warning against speculations about reports and posts from Mats Lewan, MFMP and such.

      I also believe Rossi’s extensive use of (F9) covers what he says as not confirmed. However, that doesn’t stop people from runaway speculation.

      Obviously, Rossi has posted on JONP for years. If he were now to suddenly stop, that would create it’s own path of speculations, so as long as Rossi maintains the (F9), I doubt Darden and Industrial heat have an issue with it.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Our data explained the Bologna pulse for the first time. From the X-Rays observed, we derived that he had to have lead in the E-Cat and Tungsten in the Hot Cat – both of which the crowd has confirmed by searching his JoNP statements where he said exactly these things and the running radiation we observed is exactly in the range he has claimed in the past. These are not mere speculations – this is data based on running the fuel combination in his patent resulting in outcomes he has put on record in the past.

  • “The tests are so good that at this point I also think to have resolved the theoretical puzzle.”
    – Andrea Rossi

    Rossi does not seem to be worried.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      He also wrote “you must be sceptic”. I obey, but I want to load most of my sceptical mass on the above projection, rather than on the working of the device.

    • Bob Greenyer

      But he still appears to be in the same continual flux about how it works.

  • “The tests are so good that at this point I also think to have resolved the theoretical puzzle.”
    – Andrea Rossi

    Rossi does not seem to be worried.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      He also wrote “you must be sceptic”. I obey, but I want to load most of my sceptical mass on the above projection, rather than on the working of the device.

    • Bob Greenyer

      But he still appears to be in the same continual flux about how it works.

  • NT

    Since everyone is guessing, I would guess that both Rossi (Leonardo Corporation) and Industrial Heat are positioning themselves for manufacturing and marketing. It will be an epic battle to see who captures the biggest and best market share the soonest…

    • hempenearth

      I’m not guessing.

      • NT

        Comment Removed…

  • Sant2060

    Not sure if it was posted…New energy times has very negative view of IH statement.
    http://news.newenergytimes.net/2016/03/10/industrial-heats-e-cat-exit/

    Seems NET thinks they triggered statement with their inqury, and statement is IH covering their ass from possible ecat debacle.

    • Gerard McEk

      Nobody should be reading New Energy times. Krivit accuses Andrea Rossi of being a criminal because of that, he is also a fraud when it comes to LENR. However, Andrea was cleared for his assumed mistakes, because what he has done wrong was not his fault. Krivit can’t get that into his nano sized mind and keeps on yelling the same accusation over and over again for years now. He should be in a nuts-house safely hidden, far away from other people and the Internet.

      • wpj

        True. Unless you know about it then you can’t appreciate how Italy was controlled by the Mafia in the 70s and 80s, especially the waste business (pharmaceuticals, my field, was just as bad).

        I had a friend working for Alcan and they had a car recycling plant in Italy. Payment was made on the basis of weight until they found the huge boulders secreted about. When they scrapped payment by weight, explosives were put in a car and the plant was destroyed!

      • Sant2060

        All of the above is of no interest to me. I dont care what was Rossi doing before. What IS interesting, and probably verifiable, is the cause-effect NET mentions…NET claims THEY asked IH to clarify recent Development and rumours, and IH then answered with this letter. Which does put things in different perspective, because this letter even by itself sounds likedamage controling…and if it as direct answer to question if Rossi has something, then it is huge damage controling.

      • psi2u2

        Couldn’t agree more.

      • Omega Z

        Krivit wanted Rossi to run a private demo just for him of which Rossi refused and with Krivit applying pressure, Andrea became a little testy about it. He’s had a vendetta towards Rossi every since.

        Anyway, I read the article and it is the standard hit piece Krivit is known for. Implied without actually stating anything making it hard to take legal action against him. He also takes a swipe at Mats Lewan and being sure to include a photo of Mats will Sterling Allan. Of course the story about Allan’s problems are right below the Industrial heat article.

        • bachcole

          Are you saying the Krivit is acting with malicious intent, that he his harboring a hurt that is poisoning his life and journalism?

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Why anyone would listen to Krivit with a sixth grade science degree is beyond comprehension.

  • Hhiram

    I hope IH knows what it’s doing. They’re clearly think they’re going to build a giant brand name and dominate manufacturing with first-mover advantage.

    History shows that that is not a reliable strategy. If it were my, my focus would be on licensing the tech to much bigger, more established firms with huge brand names, billions to pay armies of lawyers, and the political and financial clout to fend off infringement attempts all over the world.

    In other words, I would have given Apple 40% of the company just to use its brand name and lawyers. Because otherwise foreign manufacturers are going to reverse engineer and either evade or infringe patetns – especially in China. And Industrial Heat isn’t going to have the $100 million it will take to fight all of them 24/7.

    As long as the technology eventually gets to market that’s all that matters, but if Rossi hand sold to Apple or Google or GE or whoever we might have had LENR on market years ago.

    • AdrianAshfield

      Apple didn’t have to sell out to a large company in order to become the world’s largest company.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      There is a problem, we do not know the contents of the licensing agreement, it could prohibit “licensing the tech to much bigger” companies

    • Omega Z

      Google tends to be more consumer friendly more content with profit from volume. I can’t say the same for Apple or GE.

  • Samec

    Folks often don’t look onto details:
    Rossi stated this encrypted note: “All the [Energy] Sources Must be Integrated Otherwise LENR will be Killed”.

    For every good analyst it is clear nonsense. It is clear message, that LENR developers was blackmailed by some politic/business cabal. This cabal live in illusion that there is some way, doing things so, that common old obsolete businesses may receive minimal hit, minimal losses. It is utter illusion. There is no such way. All ways end with bankruptcy of all coal companies, later gas companies, etc., later powerplant companies and thousands suppliers in vertical chain. Some blackmail and artificial obstacles only delay such proces for few months, some subsidies from state delay demise of such companies for say one-two years.

    E-Cat X with his supposed parameters DON’T need to be integrated with all (old) sources.
    It is illusion of cabal which already lost few trillions in market cap of their possesions and next these will bankruptcies. I think cabalists are fluttering from uncontrollable fear. One of their stooge (mendacious ex billionaire) in our country just few days back raised the white flag.

    • Eyedoc

      mendacious ex billionaire ?? name ??

  • pg

    -6!?

  • wpj

    My take is that IH has seen the MFMP reports of radiation bursts and are trying to distance themselves from that so it does not detract from their announcement (when it eventually comes).

  • peter gluck

    The statement was not clear enough and not mentioning Rossi and the ERV report opens way to disastrous in interpretations as the divorce of of Rossi and IH, on New Energy Times.
    Steve Krivit insists he has inside information from IH.
    This time, I think both Darden and Rossi must say what happens- not only for supporters but for the sake of investment too and it would be very healthy to publish the basic data of the long time test- as they are.

    Peter

    • Omega Z

      Probably Darden means things like “Steve Krivit insists statements”.

      Don’t believe it unless you hear it from Industrial heat.

      It is likely much to early for an ERV report. There is 352 days of data to analyze and that takes time. Especially considering it’s importance.

      • peter gluck

        Dear Omega Z,Normally the ERV report could have been published in the day when the test was ended. It is mainly about a global COP, the variation range of COP and about technicalities as control, refill, maintenance problems of significance for future developments not essential in the Executive Summary.

        better is the enemy of good enough- if it is so,

        peter

        • Omega Z

          I believe the Pilot test was far beyond just COP and fuel longevity.
          You do not need experts in the field of Nuclear power plant certification for that. Only people expert at calorimetry.

          The Elephant that will be in the room if/when this product comes to market will be-

          LENR- Low Energy “NUCLEAR REACTIONS”–OH MY???

          They will want to give a Resounding NONE at all.
          No Nuclear material used, produced or Emissions of any kind and they will have 352 days of available Billions of data points to back that up.

          However, they will need time to study all the data beforehand just to be certain. Obviously this data will be closely scrutinized by people looking for issues to delay/stop or limit this technologies use.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Respectfully I disagree Peter, the energy balance could have been calculated after every monitoring visit and quite possibly by telemetry on a daily basis.

          What could not have been done was a complete analysis of the fuel / ash

          If the fuel needed expensive enriched Ni, and came back the same ratios in the ash, it would effect the economics.

          More importantly if it came back as unpleasantly long lived radioactive isotopes – then F9 would be negative and this could ONLY have been done after fuel extraction – hence not knowing until the end.

          • georgehants

            Bob, would not these things have been ascertained in separate experiments?
            No point running a year long test if shorter previous Research did not exclude your points.

          • Bob Greenyer

            When we visited Piantelli, he had an experiment running for much more than two years producing continuous excess heat – he wanted to leave it going for at least another year to see what the transmutations were. The data from the transmutation is MUCH more valuable than the excess heat as it will allow understanding of the process. The excess heat was a given.

          • georgehants

            Bob, “understanding of the process” is irrelevant compared to if it is producing unknown excess energy.
            If there are technical problems then they must be addressed, but you may as well say it needs to be left for 20 years to ascertain no long lived radioactive isotopes etc. therefore the problem never ends.
            Some ash from an experiment running for a short time would surely show a pro rata result.

          • Bob Greenyer

            You don’t need to leave it 20 years if you intend to swap the fuel every 6 months – 1 year is a good margin.

            I have done hypothetical calculations – if something bad was to be in the fuel, it would be clearly present within a year – it is about potential reaction chains and half lives – you cannot have an opinion on it and you cannot project from 6 months to 12 – the decision on safety can only come after a long term test that delivers the sought after out come of energy yield.

            They should know the answer now – and the only way any other party could know the answer with authority would be to run a 1 year test – so IH are right when they say their data is trumps.

          • georgehants

            many thanks, expecting report this afternoon then. ha.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Why anyone would listen to Krivit with a sixth grade science degree is beyond comprehension.

          • Warthog

            One year “is” a short time. The ideal case is that any “nasty” radioisopes are a very minor fraction of the overall sequences of reactions and build up very, very slowly. The longer it takes, the better. This tells you when you need to change out the fuel elements.

            Fission plants work EXACTLY the same way. Isotope buildup is what drives fuel changeout in those as well.

          • georgehants

            Warthog, thank you for your obvious contribution.

          • Brent Buckner

            You wrote: “The fact that IH says only believe what comes directly from us (and explicitly do not say “or Rossi/Leonardo”) likely indicates IH may not
            stand behind the test”

            I give higher odds than you do that IH stands behind the test. In IH’s position I wouldn’t want folks taking Rossi as speaking for IH (consider, for example, all that Rossi has already written about the E-cat X, to which we have been told IH holds license rights).

          • Guest

            I think that’s possible too. Either way it seems they’re saying that they don’t stand behind every Rossi statement.

          • purplepartyguy

            “We are pleased with the technologies we have assembled and with the group of scientists and engineers working on them.” perhaps Rossi didnt get along with the team so maybe he went back to working alone in his garage?

          • Omega Z

            “We are pleased with the technologies we have assembled and with the group of scientists and engineers working on them.”

            So they are Happy with their results to date thanks to Rossi.

          • NT

            Bob, will Piantelli release the three year ash analysis to you (MFMP) or publicly?

          • Bob Greenyer

            It would be down to NicHEnergy

    • Krivit is just speculating as everyone here.

      The statement of Industrial Heat is studiously vague written (maybe with the help of a lawyer), you can’t make any conclusion of it.

    • Stephen

      Is the ERV report exclusive to E-Cat? Or could they be evaluating a number of projects? If this evaluation is prior to launching into an industrial production phase it may make sense to evaluate a number of related and relevant technologies before making announcements that may impact other projects. Perhaps it takes time to evaluate and prioritise the various sets of data and to determine what and how to release.

  • peter gluck

    The statement was not clear enough and not mentioning Rossi and the ERV report opens way to disastrous in interpretations as the divorce of of Rossi and IH, on New Energy Times.
    Steve Krivit insists he has inside information from IH.
    This time, I think both Darden and Rossi must say what happens- not only for supporters but for the sake of investment too and it would be very healthy to publish the basic data of the long time test- as they are.

    Peter

    • Omega Z

      Probably Darden means things like “Steve Krivit insists statements”.

      Don’t believe it unless you hear it from Industrial heat.

      It is likely much to early for an ERV report. There is 352 days of data to analyze and that takes time. Especially considering it’s importance.

      • peter gluck

        Dear Omega Z,Normally the ERV report could have been published in the day when the test was ended. It is mainly about a global COP, the variation range of COP and about technicalities as control, refill, maintenance problems of significance for future developments not essential in the Executive Summary.

        better is the enemy of good enough- if it is so,

        peter

        • Omega Z

          I believe the Pilot test was far beyond just COP and fuel longevity.
          You do not need experts in the field of Nuclear power plant certification for that. Only people expert at calorimetry.

          The Elephant that will be in the room if/when this product comes to market will be-

          LENR- Low Energy “NUCLEAR REACTIONS”–OH MY???

          They will want to give a Resounding NONE at all.
          No Nuclear material used, produced or Emissions of any kind and they will have 352 days of available Billions of data points to back that up.

          However, they will need time to study all the data beforehand just to be certain. Obviously this data will be closely scrutinized by people looking for issues to delay/stop or limit this technologies use.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Respectfully I disagree Peter, the energy balance could have been calculated after every monitoring visit and quite possibly by telemetry on a daily basis.

          What could not have been done was a complete analysis of the fuel / ash

          If the fuel needed expensive enriched Ni, and came back the same ratios in the ash, it would effect the economics.

          More importantly if it came back as unpleasantly long lived radioactive isotopes – then F9 would be negative and this could ONLY have been done after fuel extraction – hence not knowing until the end.

          • georgehants

            Bob, would not these things have been ascertained in separate experiments?
            No point running a year long test if shorter previous Research did not exclude your points.

          • Bob Greenyer

            When we visited Piantelli, he had an experiment running for much more than two years producing continuous excess heat – he wanted to leave it going for at least another year to see what the transmutations were. The data from the transmutation is MUCH more valuable than the excess heat as it will allow understanding of the process. The excess heat was a given.

          • georgehants

            Bob, “understanding of the process” is irrelevant compared to if it is producing unknown excess energy.
            If there are technical problems then they must be addressed, but you may as well say it needs to be left for 20 years to ascertain no long lived radioactive isotopes etc. therefore the problem never ends.
            Some ash from an experiment running for a short time would surely show a pro rata result.

          • Bob Greenyer

            You don’t need to leave it 20 years if you intend to swap the fuel every 6 months – 1 year is a good margin.

            I have done hypothetical calculations – if something bad was to be in the fuel, it would be clearly present within a year – it is about potential reaction chains and half lives – you cannot have an opinion on it and you cannot project from 6 months to 12 – the decision on safety can only come after a long term test that delivers the sought after out come of energy yield.

            They should know the answer now – and the only way any other party could know the answer with authority would be to run a 1 year test – so IH are right when they say their data is trumps.

          • georgehants

            many thanks, expecting report this afternoon then. ha.

          • Warthog

            One year “is” a short time. The ideal case is that any “nasty” radioisopes are a very minor fraction of the overall sequences of reactions and build up very, very slowly. The longer it takes, the better. This tells you when you need to change out the fuel elements.

            Fission plants work EXACTLY the same way. Isotope buildup is what drives fuel changeout in those as well.

          • georgehants

            Warthog, thank you for your obvious contribution.

          • NT

            Bob, will Piantelli release the three year ash analysis to you (MFMP) or publicly?

          • Bob Greenyer

            It would be down to NicHEnergy

          • Sceptic

            Well “long lived radioactive isotopes” could also be detected “by telemetry on a daily basis”, at least presence of radioactive pollution could be detected long before end of test run.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It depends – if the ash only has short lived X-Rays, Protons or Alpha – these are all fine.

            If we are to assume it is WELL beyond chemical, then it is likely to be nuclear – therefore, no certifying authority would claim it was safe until they have the ash in their labs having extracted it themselves.

    • Krivit is just speculating as everyone here, and is flavouring his article by highlighting every bad story about and related to Rossi, before he’s coming to the point of the news in the very last paragraph of his article. Typical…

      The statement of Industrial Heat is written studiously vague (maybe with the help of a lawyer). We can’t draw any conclusion out of it. It’s typical business/PR chattering.

      But as Mats Lewan has pointed out, it is very interesting that this public statement was also sent to APCO Worldwide.
      You won’t do this if you just want to say “sorry, we were scammed”.

    • Stephen

      Is the ERV report exclusive to E-Cat? Or could they be evaluating a number of projects? If this evaluation is prior to launching into an industrial production phase it may make sense to evaluate a number of related and relevant technologies before making announcements that may impact other projects. Perhaps it takes time to evaluate and prioritise the various sets of data how they impact each other and to determine what and how to release the information. I guess they won’t wait too long though as they will want to have some level of control and to be sure the correct information is released.

  • georgehants

    So much talk about a completely unnecessary and pointless statement.
    Either they have a working product of they don’t.
    Cut out the crap and publish the report.

    • Gryphon

      IH’s statement seems pretty similar to what Darden said at ICCF.

      • bachcole

        You’re right. But why say it now?

      • Omega Z

        Correct, He hasn’t really said anything. (F9)

  • georgehants

    So much talk about a completely unnecessary and pointless statement.
    Either they have a working product of they don’t.
    Cut out the crap and publish the report, that clearly they did not need to wait for the test to finish before writing 99% of it.
    I have not followed Cold Fusion all these years to sit here caring about if IH, Bill Gates or anybody is making any profit, just to see the technology saving lives and relieving suffering in this sad World.

    • Gryphon

      IH’s statement seems pretty similar to what Darden said at ICCF.

      • bachcole

        You’re right. But why say it now?

      • Omega Z

        Correct, He hasn’t really said anything. (F9)

  • bachcole

    Sounds like an introduction to another announcement to come, soon.

    • Ged

      dun Dun DUUUUN

  • Needcleanwater

    A bunch of well paid lawyers and PR wrote an extremely confusing message, what does it have for humanity that you said to help I.H? If I. H really has a sense of higher purpose then they should come forward with some objective statements.
    It’s a matter of live or dead here no room for this please

  • Hi all

    So Krivit claims the email was sent to him.

    Can you verify that Frank?

    Kind Regards walker

    • Frank Acland

      I have no reason to believe he was not sent it.

  • Hi all

    So Krivit claims the email was sent to him.

    Can you verify that Frank?

    Kind Regards walker

    • Frank Acland

      I have no reason to believe he was not sent it.

  • Gerard McEk

    Nobody should be reading New Energy times. Krivit accuses Andrea Rossi of being a criminal because of that, he is also a fraud when it comes to LENR. However, Andrea was cleared for his assumed mistakes, because what he has done wrong was not his fault. Krivit can’t get that into his nano sized mind and keeps on yelling the same accusation over and over again for years now. He should be in a nuts-house safely hidden, far away from other people and the Internet.

    • wpj

      True. Unless you know about it then you can’t appreciate how Italy was controlled by the Mafia in the 70s and 80s, especially the waste business (pharmaceuticals, my field, was just as bad).

      I had a friend working for Alcan and they had a car recycling plant in Italy. Payment was made on the basis of weight until they found the huge boulders secreted about. When they scrapped payment by weight, explosives were put in a car and the plant was destroyed!

    • Sant2060

      All of the above is of no interest to me. I dont care what was Rossi doing before. What IS interesting, and probably verifiable, is the cause-effect NET mentions…NET claims THEY asked IH to clarify recent Development and rumours, and IH then answered with this letter. Which does put things in different perspective, because this letter even by itself sounds likedamage controling…and if it as direct answer to question if Rossi has something, then it is huge damage controling.

    • psi2u2

      Couldn’t agree more.

    • Omega Z

      Krivit wanted Rossi to run a private demo just for him of which Rossi refused and with Krivit applying pressure, Andrea became a little testy about it. He’s had a vendetta towards Rossi every since.

      Anyway, I read the article and it is the standard hit piece Krivit is known for. Implied without actually stating anything making it hard to take legal action against him. He also takes a swipe at Mats Lewan and being sure to include a photo of Mats will Sterling Allan. Of course the story about Allan’s problems are right below the Industrial heat article.

  • AdrianAshfield

    Apple didn’t have to sell out to a large company in order to become the world’s largest company.

  • BillH

    AR might be IH’s chief engineer but he has often said he is working closely on site with IH engineers, these engineers will know full well who is paying their salary and who their loyalties should lie with, and that isn’t AH.

  • TPaign

    Having risk management experience on the C-Suite level, my best guess regarding the meaning of the statement boils down to the following paragraph:
    “We value credibility through sound LENR research. That’s why any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.”
    This statement is a defensive one, getting ahead of the market turmoil to come. Imagine if, when Rossi & IH unveil the 1 year demonstration unit, this causes long term oil futures to plummet, bank failures due to cap reserve ratios plummeting, etc. You could see a wave of litigation coming at them saying that the technology “can’t be real” and their product unveiling, their supposed lies, caused economic losses and damages.
    The IH statement says, basically, “Only believe what is being said when our name is on it, and reputable third parties have verified”. At the same time, any information and data they release will have credible third parties behind it.
    They understand that which they are walking into, and they are proactively and wisely preparing for the storm in advance.

    • psi2u2

      Very interesting. Thanks.

    • Bob Greenyer

      You make good points.

      However, they might be forced to go public because anyone may replicate again at any time now – so having a “we are the only true oracles” statement published dutifully everywhere allows them to hopefully keep a modicum of control.

      • Hi Bob!

        So you think this is related to the SKINR Glowstick replication, which is planned to start next week?
        Would be great! Competition always gives a boost 🙂

        • Bob Greenyer

          Well, there is no guarantee they will strike gold first hit and they are using different Nickel and they are holding the experiment in “phase 2” over the weekend with the main parts of the run happening next week.

          Having said that – they are absolutely credible in that they have multiple counts of top of the range detectors they can train on the reactor and if you believe Piantelli/Focardi or Rossi have ever seen anything – sooner or later they will see it too – and nature will always do the same thing if you get it right.

          An eventual replication of GS5.2 by SKINR would not be competition – but it would be confirmation of incontrovertible evidence and they would have to stop pretending that they have nothing and release.

          There are many others too preparing replications.

          IH have a choice – announce before the end of next week, or run the risk of being the organisation that says “Yeh, we did that before, look at us”.

          I would go as far as to say, that SKINR are equipped to produce far more credible evidence than has ever been shared by Rossi/IH/Piantelli/Focardi

          • Agree.
            You and MFMP already spread the knowledge (recipe).
            If SKINR could prove that this is the real recipe, then no one will care about Rossi and IH anymore.
            They have to speed up now 🙂

            When IH knows that it works, and they know how it works, and they know that YOU (and the whole internet) also know (theoretically) how it works and the tiny missing thing is just “engineering work”…okay, this statement makes even more sense 🙂

          • Brent Buckner

            You write: “If SKINR could prove that this is the real recipe, then no one ever will care about Rossi and Industrial Heat anymore.”

            Perhaps they will care very much, depending upon the patent(s) situation.

          • Isn’t the patent only valid for the US?

          • Brent Buckner

            We don’t know what applications may be in process where.

          • Omega Z

            Applications were filed World Wide shortly after the U.S. patent was granted and published. Rossi couldn’t file earlier because his U.S. patent was cloaked/Not publicly visible. To file World Wide, patents can not be kept hidden.

          • Bob Greenyer

            IH/Rossi are in a good position to be first mover – but they do actually need to move. I can assure you, Indians, Japanese, Russian and the Chinese are not going to sit around in a 200 year queue to get their generators.

          • Omega Z

            Note Rossi paid a special fee to keep the U.S. patent cloaked in darkness.

            I don’t recall if such arrangement can be lifted by request or if it requires an additional fee, but regardless, Rossi had the cloak removed just days before the patent was granted and published.

            A cloaked U.S. patent has to be publicly published like 60? days before application for world wide patents can be applied for. So Rossi’s granted U.S. patent is patent pending in the rest of the world. Having a U.S. patent as precedent, likely it will be granted and done so in a short period of time.

    • Ged

      That makes great sense. Thank you for your insights.

    • Sanjeev

      This cannot be controlled. Anyone, including IH, believing that it can be, is in delusion.
      World is chaotic by nature.
      IMO.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Gotta break eggs to make an omelette!

        mmmm omelette…

        • Alan Smith

          And Japan put in $20M in 2014, $25M last year, and will put in $30M this year. And a member of the government told me (in 2014) ‘we will spend whatever it takes’ -there is no limit.’

          • Bob Greenyer

            Japan already has Robots Programmed to hit the CTRL+P buttons at their central bank. They can do this a googleplex times a second, because as we all know – digits in a bank account equate to processed goods and GDP.

          • And they just started their nuclear fission plants again this week…

          • Bob Greenyer

            Gotta keep the lights on!

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Bob: Rossi said, “The tests are so good that at this point I also think to have resolved the theoretical puzzle.” What do you think?

          • NCkhawk

            Believe that at your own risk. He’s planning something big and at present I don’t like the smell or feel of anything related to Rossi. The flow of JNOP has a manipulated pattern to it – so many patent mentions, so much discussion about mass production and large scale distribution. Does that throw a flag with anyone else around here?

          • Bob Greenyer

            No – I already deduced at the beginning of last year and published that you could make low temperature reactors using lower melting point Alkaline metals and now we KNOW it produces X-Rays, the choice of transition metal will allow you to optimise output for a particular purpose.

          • Bob Greenyer

            To be fair, Rossi, as great as his achievement is, has had a different “theory de jour” (at least publicly) through out the process… only one is not considered, that of Piantelli, yet he sought Piantelli group contact at the outset, worked with Focardi, Claimed he enriches with 62Ni & 64Ni as clearly inferred in Piantellis patent and Piantellis patents are the only ones challenged.

          • Josh G

            Guys, I’m telling you: Miles Mathis’s theory holds the answer. Bob, I know you’re busy, but you **need** to take some time to look into this. It’s a quick read.

            I finally nudged Miles enough that he started trying to figure out cold fusion (which works primarily by intensifying or amplifying what he calls the charge field), so hopefully we’ll get an answer soon, hopefully within a couple of weeks. He and I agree on the basic outlines, but hopefully he can fill in the details. Actually, I’m sure he can. I mean, he’s already explained the Casimir effect, zero-point energy, the source of dark matter, etc. etc.

            This is going to rock the world. At least as much as cold fusion. A complete revision and renewal of physics as we know it. The Copenhagen interpretation and with it all of quantum ‘mechanics’ are going to go in the rubbish bin. Physics has been way off course for well over a hundred years, but we’ve muddled along well enough covering up our ignorance with fancy math, so nobody has noticed. That’s going to change, and we are going to be able to harness the powers of the world around us in unimaginable ways.

            http://milesmathis.com/

            Here two key papers on the charge field:

            http://milesmathis.com/charge.html

            http://milesmathis.com/charge2.html

            Here are key papers on the elements and also some stuff on deuterium and tritium and noble gases (remember the Papp engine?:

            http://milesmathis.com/nuclear.pdf

            http://milesmathis.com/deut.pdf

            http://milesmathis.com/xeptf6.pdf

            Casimir, dynamical casimir and zero-point energy:

            http://milesmathis.com/casimir.html

            http://milesmathis.com/dce.pdf

            Dark Energy:

            http://milesmathis.com/lostmass.html

            http://milesmathis.com/dark2.pdf

            A nice summation of key points of his theory, followed by an explanation of how Pyramids and lightning work:

            http://milesmathis.com/pyramid.html

            http://milesmathis.com/allais.html

            Wave/particle “duality” and the dual slit experiment and other amazing insights:

            http://milesmathis.com/super.html

            http://milesmathis.com/freq.pdf

            http://milesmathis.com/double.html

            http://milesmathis.com/photon.html

          • Alan Smith

            I promise you Abe is really on message with this from day 1. Whe he said ‘no limit’ he means it. The only bad thing is the the Japanese Nuclear Energy Authority has taken over and now everything is classified unless specifically cleared for publication. Some of the guys in the field there are very sad about it – not what they wanted or dreamed of.

      • Ged

        Don’t tell that to a Congressman ;).

  • TPaign

    Having risk management experience on the C-Suite level, my best guess regarding the meaning of the statement boils down to the following paragraph:
    “We value credibility through sound LENR research. That’s why any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.”
    This statement is a defensive one, getting ahead of the market turmoil to come. Imagine if, when Rossi & IH unveil the 1 year demonstration unit, this causes long term oil futures to plummet, bank failures due to cap reserve ratios plummeting, etc. You could see a wave of litigation coming at them saying that the technology “can’t be real” and their product unveiling, their supposed lies, caused economic losses and damages.
    The IH statement says, basically, “Only believe what is being said when our name is on it, and reputable third parties have verified”. At the same time, any information and data they release will have credible third parties behind it.
    They understand that which they are walking into, and they are proactively and wisely preparing for the storm in advance.

    • psi2u2

      Very interesting. Thanks.

    • Bob Greenyer

      You make good points.

      However, they might be forced to go public because anyone may replicate again at any time now – so having a “we are the only true oracles” statement published dutifully everywhere allows them to hopefully keep a modicum of control.

      • Hi Bob!

        So you think this is related to the SKINR Glowstick replication, which is planned to start next week?
        Would be great! Competition always gives a boost 🙂

        • Bob Greenyer

          Well, there is no guarantee they will strike gold first hit and they are using different Nickel and they are holding the experiment in “phase 2” over the weekend with the main parts of the run happening next week.

          Having said that – they are absolutely credible in that they have multiple counts of top of the range detectors they can train on the reactor and if you believe Piantelli/Focardi or Rossi have ever seen anything – sooner or later they will see it too – and nature will always do the same thing if you get it right.

          An eventual replication of GS5.2 by SKINR would not be competition – but it would be confirmation of incontrovertible evidence and they would have to stop pretending that they have nothing and release.

          There are many others too preparing replications.

          IH have a choice – announce before the end of next week, or run the risk of being the organisation that says “Yeh, we did that before, look at us”.

          I would go as far as to say, that SKINR are equipped and staffed to produce far more credible evidence than has ever been shared by Rossi/IH/Piantelli/Focardi

          • Agree.

            You and MFMP maybe already spread the needed theoretical knowledge (the recipe).
            If SKINR could prove that this is the real recipe, then no one ever will care about Rossi and Industrial Heat anymore. Their intellectual property will diminish in value very fast with each new replication.
            They have to speed up now 🙂

            When IH knows that it works, and they know how it works, and they know that YOU (and the whole internet) also know (theoretically) how it works and the tiny missing thing is just “engineering work”…then the IH statement makes even more sense 🙂

          • Brent Buckner

            You write: “If SKINR could prove that this is the real recipe, then no one ever will care about Rossi and Industrial Heat anymore.”

            Perhaps they will care very much, depending upon the patent(s) situation.

          • Isn’t the patent only valid for the US?

          • Brent Buckner

            We don’t know what applications may be in process where.

          • Omega Z

            Applications were filed World Wide shortly after the U.S. patent was granted and published. Rossi couldn’t file earlier because his U.S. patent was cloaked/Not publicly visible. To file World Wide, patents can not be kept hidden.

          • Bob Greenyer

            IH/Rossi are in a good position to be first mover – but they do actually need to move. I can assure you, Indians, Japanese, Russian and the Chinese are not going to sit around in a 200 year queue to get their generators.

          • Omega Z

            Note Rossi paid a special fee to keep the U.S. patent cloaked in darkness.

            I don’t recall if such arrangement can be lifted by request or if it requires an additional fee, but regardless, Rossi had the cloak removed just days before the patent was granted and published.

            A cloaked U.S. patent has to be publicly published like 60? days before application for world wide patents can be applied for. So Rossi’s granted U.S. patent is patent pending in the rest of the world. Having a U.S. patent as precedent, likely it will be granted and done so in a short period of time.

    • Ged

      That makes great sense. Thank you for your insights.

    • Sanjeev

      This cannot be controlled. Anyone, including IH, believing that it can be, is in delusion.
      World is chaotic by nature.
      IMO.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Gotta break eggs to make an omelette!

        mmmm omelette…

      • Ged

        Don’t tell that to a Congressman ;).

    • Yes, thanks for your insight. I really enjoyed reading that comment.

  • Ged

    dun Dun DUUUUN

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    There is a problem, we do not know the contents of the licensing agreement, it could prohibit “licensing the tech to much bigger” companies

  • Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi

    March 11, 2016 at 9:16 AM

    Velda Funderburke:

    Thank you for spotting this issue: there is absolutely no divorce between Leonardo Corporation and any of its Licensees, included Industrial Heat. Industrial Heat is the legitimate licensee of Leonardo Corporation for its Territory and I never referred to any possible divorce.

    I invite anybody to disregard any innuendo, supposition, speculation related to the licenses of Leonardo Corporation unless they are communicated directly from Leonardo Corporation.

    There is some imbecile that tries to get audience inventing situations that do not exist.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    • I guess he’s referring to Steven Krivit’s latest article 😀

      • Bob Greenyer

        Yeh, we know who he was referring to – poor him, he stuck his flag in a theory that “does not even consider the wave function” Piantelli’s said.

        • Dods

          what’s on that plane with Samuel L Jackson again I forgot? 🙂

          • Ged

            Clowns? Oh wait…

    • The perfect press release. Everybody saw what they wanted to see in it.

      It communicated everything and nothing.

      • wpj

        Also the comment about being the “Leonardo Corporation” licensee seems to indicate that the Ecat-X will also go through them for the US territories.

        PS His English is very good in this response!

        • Bob Tivnan

          Yes…his English is too good, as though he was instructed to copy and paste the 2nd paragraph by some IH attorneys (my 2 cents).

          • wpj

            Last line is definitely his, though.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      We have gone from Rossi being the chief scientist of IH, and working with all of IH’s engineers to this recent statement from Rossi, “The next tests will be made only by my internal scientific committee of Leonardo Corporation, in the factories of Leonardo Corporation”. Maybe not a divorce, but could be more than a disagreement?

      • Yes. Rossis assignment with IH probably ended with the 350 day test. Now he’s talking about plants in southern Sweden together with Hydro Fusion. It seams Leonardo and HF will cooperate in the European market. Together I believe thay have the licenses for all countries except Spain and Portugal (Roger Green, et al.)

        • Frank Acland

          Based on what AR has said recently, I think the relationship between Leonardo and IH is still in effect. For example today he wrote: “there is absolutely no divorce between Leonardo Corporation and any of its Licensees, included Industrial Heat. Industrial Heat is the legitimate licensee of Leonardo Corporation for its Territory and I never referred to any possible divorce.
          I invite anybody to disregard any innuendo, supposition, speculation related to the licenses of Leonardo Corporation unless they are communicated directly from Leonardo Corporation.”

          • Ged

            Sounds like Rossi is just looking forward to the next phase of business now that the test is done and he’s no longer locked inside an IH shipping container (pretty much literally!). He can finally stretch out to other partners at hand, buoyed by the investments of IH. It’s a big world.

          • Yes. But I guess that with the 350 day test ending some kind of contractual milestone was reached, now leaving Rossi more to his own commands on what to work on and where. Legally there is of course no divorce. Big difference.

      • Rene

        It may be nothing more than making it clear who is doing the work as ‘fee for service’, hence who owns the IP for the current and future refinements and/or discoveries.

  • Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi

    March 11, 2016 at 9:16 AM

    Velda Funderburke:

    Thank you for spotting this issue: there is absolutely no divorce between Leonardo Corporation and any of its Licensees, included Industrial Heat. Industrial Heat is the legitimate licensee of Leonardo Corporation for its Territory and I never referred to any possible divorce.

    I invite anybody to disregard any innuendo, supposition, speculation related to the licenses of Leonardo Corporation unless they are communicated directly from Leonardo Corporation.

    There is some imbecile that tries to get audience inventing situations that do not exist.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    • I guess he’s referring to Steven Krivit’s latest article 😀

      • Bob Greenyer

        Yeh, we know who he was referring to – poor him, he stuck his flag in a theory that “does not even consider the wave function” Piantelli’s said.

        • Dods

          what’s on that plane with Samuel L Jackson again I forgot? 🙂

          • Ged

            Clowns? Oh wait…

          • Bob Greenyer

            Alligators…. no no, er, teenage mutant ninja Radon fleas, that can’t be it… oh oh – I know …

            … damn it – I though I had it… asp. oops, I meant ass 😉

    • The perfect press release. Everybody saw what they wanted to see in it.

      It communicated everything and nothing.

      • wpj

        Also the comment about being the “Leonardo Corporation” licensee seems to indicate that the Ecat-X will also go through them for the US territories.

        PS His English is very good in this response!

        • Bob Tivnan

          Yes…his English is too good, as though he was instructed to copy and paste the 2nd paragraph by some IH attorneys (my 2 cents).

          • wpj

            Last line is definitely his, though.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      We have gone from Rossi being the chief scientist of IH, and working with all of IH’s engineers to this recent statement from Rossi, “The next tests will be made only by my internal scientific committee of Leonardo Corporation, in the factories of Leonardo Corporation”. Maybe not a divorce, but could be more than a disagreement?

      • Yes. Rossis assignment with IH probably ended with the 350 day test. Now he’s talking about plants in southern Sweden together with Hydro Fusion. It seams Leonardo and HF will cooperate in the European market. Together I believe thay have the licenses for all countries except Spain and Portugal (Roger Green, et al.)

        • Frank Acland

          Based on what AR has said recently, I think the relationship between Leonardo and IH is still in effect. For example today he wrote: “there is absolutely no divorce between Leonardo Corporation and any of its Licensees, included Industrial Heat. Industrial Heat is the legitimate licensee of Leonardo Corporation for its Territory and I never referred to any possible divorce.
          I invite anybody to disregard any innuendo, supposition, speculation related to the licenses of Leonardo Corporation unless they are communicated directly from Leonardo Corporation.”

          • Ged

            Sounds like Rossi is just looking forward to the next phase of business now that the test is done and he’s no longer locked inside an IH shipping container (pretty much literally!). He can finally stretch out to other partners at hand, buoyed by the investments of IH. It’s a big world.

          • Yes. But I guess that with the 350 day test ending some kind of contractual milestone was reached, now leaving Rossi more to his own commands on what to work on and where. Legally there is of course no divorce. Big difference.

      • Rene

        It may be nothing more than making it clear who is doing the work as ‘fee for service’, hence who owns the IP for the current and future refinements and/or discoveries.

  • Sandy

    I believe that the precarious financial condition of the too-big-to-fail-banks is a significant factor in the delay of the introduction of LENR technologies. The oil production hedging contracts between banks and oil producers must be allowed to expire before LENR technologies can be marketed. Otherwise, crashing oil prices could cause banks to suffer huge financial losses, and those losses that might push the banks over the brink and into bankruptcy. Bank failures could in turn collapse the derivatives markets and thereby cause a global financial depression.

    “Just 15% of US oil production is hedged in 2016: IHS”
    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/29/just-15-of-us-oil-production-is-hedged-in-2016-ihs.html

    • Peter

      Ok, but clearly they are also dependent on other (LENR) producers on the market who like to be the first with their products. So waiting because oil producers that want to temper their losses and on banks who don’t want to suffer seems to me a passed station. This LENR train goes on weither banks or oil producers like it or not …

    • Omega Z

      To Big to Fail is starting to become less relevant with big banks.
      They are turning away from the general consumer catering to and for the rich & well off. No one cares if someone like Bill Gates goes broke or loses a Billion$ or 2. People only care when average people lose their homes and savings.

      Prior to the housing bubble burst, Big banks carried 75% of home loans. Since then they have reduced that to 25%. By 2020, they hope to have zero share of the home loan business.

      The reason for this is Very large banks are required to hold much more capital in reserve when dealing with consumer loans(Non working funds) reducing return while still retaining all the risk. In simple terms, the loan risks are the same as before, but with lower returns/profits.

      The end result is you will finance through smaller more local banks, credit unions or home loan companies. Higher down payments & higher credit scores to qualify.
      ——————————————————————-
      As to Big banks and Oil, They are already restricted as to how much loss exposure they can have. Something like 10% and it’s considereed the other 90% of their assets will help them recover should Bad Happen.

      Still, it will hurt the general economy while they recover.

  • Publius

    This can certainly be read as a statement of IH trying to distance themselves from Rossi’s persistent and murky comments and those who comment on his comments (you reading this). IH is carefully working behind the scenes so they can’t like the carnival attention Rossi brings. I want the E-Cat to be a success and work, but like IH, I don’t pin all my hopes on Rossi.

    • Ged

      That interpretation is incongruous with “We are pleased with the technologies we have assembled and with the group of scientists and engineers working on them.”, which includes Rossi, and “Our portfolio of work has never been stronger and we remain excited about the potential we see.”, which includes Rossi.

      Their statement seems clearly aimed outwards, not inwards.

      • Brent Buckner

        I think part of the messaging is inwards – that other investees shouldn’t panic about not having spectacular positive results (as yet). Thus: “Embracing failure as well as success is important, because we learn from both.”

      • Peter

        Ok, but clearly they are also dependent on other (LENR) producers on the market who like to be the first with their products. So waiting because oil producers that want to temper their losses and on banks who don’t want to suffer seems to me a passed station. This LENR train goes on weither banks or oil producers like it or not …

  • Publius

    This can certainly be read as a statement of IH trying to distance themselves from Rossi’s persistent and murky comments and those who comment on his comments (you reading this). IH is carefully working behind the scenes so they can’t like the carnival attention Rossi brings. I want the E-Cat to be a success and work, but like IH, I don’t pin all my hopes on Rossi.

    • Ged

      That interpretation is incongruous with “We are pleased with the technologies we have assembled and with the group of scientists and engineers working on them.”, which includes Rossi, and “Our portfolio of work has never been stronger and we remain excited about the potential we see.”, which includes Rossi.

      Their statement seems clearly aimed outwards, not inwards.

      • Brent Buckner

        I think part of the messaging is inwards – that other investees shouldn’t panic about not having spectacular positive results (as yet). Thus: “Embracing failure as well as success is important, because we learn from both.”

  • Hydrofusion also released some news:

    “China invested the equivalent of $121 million USD in LENR technology”

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/news/index.php/News/115-Hydrofusion-E-Cat-Fourth-Quarter-Developments-Of-2015-125Mn-in-Darden-partnershi/

    • Sanjeev

      Never heard before about the Chinese government investing $121 million in IH (or lenr in general).
      If true, its a great news.

      • Omega Z

        That took place over the Chinese contract signing deal last fall I believe.
        I don’t recall if Frank had a thread on that or if it was mentioned among ECW posters in general.

        • kenko1

          I recall that also. Darden had made agreements with two or three entities to develop industrial zones, whatever that may mean. I speculate it’s code speak for infrastructure such as roads,electricity,water,sewerfor future factories.

  • Hydrofusion also released some news:

    “China invested the equivalent of $121 million USD in LENR technology”

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/news/index.php/News/115-Hydrofusion-E-Cat-Fourth-Quarter-Developments-Of-2015-125Mn-in-Darden-partnershi/

    • Sanjeev

      Never heard before about the Chinese government investing $121 million in IH (or lenr in general).
      If true, its a great news.

      • Omega Z

        That took place over the Chinese contract signing deal last fall I believe.
        I don’t recall if Frank had a thread on that or if it was mentioned among ECW posters in general.

        • kenko1

          I recall that also. Darden had made agreements with two or three entities to develop industrial zones, whatever that may mean. I speculate it’s code speak for infrastructure such as roads,electricity,water,sewerfor future factories.

  • badger

    This seems like a statement that hints they will not prematurely announce any success, to avoid a media circus and backlash, as it happened in 1989.

  • Alan Smith

    And Japan put in $20M in 2014, $25M last year, and will put in $30M this year. And a member of the government told me (in 2014) ‘we will spend whatever it takes’ -there is no limit.’

    • Bob Greenyer

      Japan already has Robots Programmed to hit the CTRL+P buttons at their central bank. They can do this a googleplex times a second, because as we all know – digits in a bank account equate to processed goods and GDP.

      Joking aside, they really need to invest in this – more than anyone – they are sitting on a 1/4 million year fallout zone and need a solution.

      • And they just started their nuclear fission plants again this week…

        • Bob Greenyer

          Gotta keep the lights on!

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Bob: Rossi said, “The tests are so good that at this point I also think to have resolved the theoretical puzzle.” What do you think?

      • Alan Smith

        I promise you Abe is really on message with this from day 1. Whe he said ‘no limit’ he means it. The only bad thing is the the Japanese Nuclear Energy Authority has taken over and now everything is classified unless specifically cleared for publication. Some of the guys in the field there are very sad about it – not what they wanted or dreamed of.

  • georgehants

    Our Wonderful Mr. Rossi will still be working away in his container on the Z-cat while hopefully china etc. are producing millions of units, disregarding patents etc. of the West.
    The Time of the Microsoft’s and Apples with their almost monopoly positions have ended thankfully.
    Once the UK monopolized cotton manufacturing etc. at the expense of those growing it etc. now we don’t even produce our own socks.
    The mostly bankrupt West is left with living off the corruption in financial dealing, when that ends badly the soup kitchens queues will be a mile long.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Not only Cotton, Tea, Coffee, Slate, Steel, Spices, Opium, Colonisation… you name it. Then we spent all the proceeds on WW2.

      The world HAS to implement this technology in tandem – across the board – it cannot be the preserve of one nation or corporation.

      • georgehants

        Bob, agreed all so unnecessary if every economy was based on production, manpower and sharing only.
        No profit in war, then very few wars, that should only be handled by a caring, competent, comprehensive, democratic United Nations.
        I think.

        • MorganMck

          You just don’t get it. The UN you envision cannot and will not ever exist. All caring, competence and and kindness will come from individuals and small groups organized around those ideals. History teaches that they will never come from large bureaucracies, especially those organized around the self interest of a few parties who obtained their positions of power by an accident of history.

          • georgehants

            Morgan, so slavery was not defeated in the World (mostly)
            Colour prejudice has not been much improve, still remnants left from the most ignorant and undesirable of people.
            Women never got the vote.
            Democracy was never introduced.
            The Catholic church still rules the World.
            History teaches us that change occurs all the time and that it is our choice which changes to make.
            O and of course Cold Fusion is impossible.
            Best

          • hereandthere

            George, you still miss Morgan’s point: actual change comes through the power of the love, competence and kindness of individuals and small groups invested in a common belief or cause. Every change you cite began this way; individuals and small groups charged with a moral imperative sacrificially working towards the imperative’s implementation. Most great positive changes occur when increasing numbers of individuals and small groups no longer accept the unjust/immoral imposition of the will of the ‘established’ bureaucracy…be it political, social or religious…or even scientific!

            Large bureaucracies, including the UN, are filled with ambitious and self serving people because the truism is always true: power corrupts. Manipulation and control become the primary concerns. There may be a few moral people(normally ‘followers’) in the bureaucracy, but true morality is not the underlying and driving force of large organizations. Can you name a single large bureaucracy that is not at least partially corrupt? I can’t, and once I stopped believing in illusions of how I thought the world was, should or could be, I began facing the world as it really is.

            The hope you seek in man is misplaced; this is not a forum for preaching, but there is an eternal Hope that actually can change the heart of individual men and woman. That is where Hope, both in this world and the next, lies. It is through such Hope-filled men, woman and children that just change can come as the moral imperative takes on greater significance at the individual level.

            Again, it is good to be a realist in this world. The most highly ambitious and driven, the most power/authority hungry will continue to drive to the top of bureaucracies. Without God, human nature does not change much. Even with God, men and women find it difficult to not be corrupted by the lure and intoxication of ‘authority’.

            So, we, as individuals, must do what we can to live the moral imperatives in which we believe, and take joy in knowing we are doing our imperfect best to love and live what we believe. But we must be realistic about the world in which we live and the ever-present potential for evil/injustice all around us. There is no utopian solution, for now. Yes, that is sad, but it is truth. Ten generations hence, unless He intervenes, we will be addressing the same issues.
            rant over…

          • georgehants

            hereandthere, Thank you for such a thinking, aware reply that I agree with entirely.
            It is not that “I do not get it” it is that knowing all that you say is True, it makes good sense for those who care to start making a noise.
            You have put up your reply because I put up my comment.
            Would you have put it up without my comment.
            It has always been known as “the silent majority”
            In my opinion your point, that change comes when people react is very True.
            It must start somewhere and here is as good as anywhere else.
            Cold Fusion is a technology that can change the World.
            Do you believe it should be freely available for those most in need, I think you do and you have Wonderfully put forward that good people can change things, well now is the opportunity on Frank’s Wonderful Website, where he is aware I think of the broad spectrum of effects coming from Cold Fusion and allows the humanitarian effects to be freely discussed, for you and others to voice those concerns and hopefully make a difference.
            Best

    • clovis ray

      Thanks for that up lifting and forward thinking there George,, you have it all figured out.

  • BillH

    Superficially this seems to be a blanket statement of IH’s investment in LENR research. I pick out two sections which may be directly applicable to AR:-

    “We will thoroughly assess data derived from sound experiments which we design, control and monitor.”

    This implies that IH designed the year long test and will be the sole arbitrator of it’s success, regardless of statements from AR.

    “…technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.”

    This indicates that the final conclusions will be heavily dependant on assessment by independent sources i.e.. ERV.

    This all appears an affirmation that IR are in control of the whole process with no indication of F9. The wait goes on…

  • sam

    Still a good choice.
    She would cost less also.
    Not that the money is coming
    out of my pocket.

  • The point is, can LENR produce enough excess energy to make a useful product? LENR has been proven to make interesting laboratory experiments that show excess energy, but that is of no use unless a workable product can be made. I hope the results of the year long test are very positive. If not, then LENR may be overtaken by simplified hot fusion technology and molten salt fission nuclear reactor technology.

  • The point is, can LENR produce enough excess energy to make a useful product? LENR has been proven to make interesting laboratory experiments that show excess energy, but that is of no use unless a workable product can be made. I hope the results of the year long test are very positive. If not, then LENR may be overtaken by simplified hot fusion technology and molten salt fission nuclear reactor technology.

  • Buck

    I fully agree with TPaign’s perspective presented below. However, there is an unusual element that no one seems to have addressed.

    Why was this positioning statement sent back channel rather than through a full blown PR release in public?

    This question becomes more meaningful when one recognizes the unusual disclosure of APCO Worldwide through a “mistaken” CC rather than BCC.

    TPaign
    Having risk management experience on the C-Suite level, my best guess
    regarding the meaning of the statement boils down to the following
    paragraph:
    “We value credibility through sound LENR research. That’s
    why any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be
    relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third
    parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.”
    This
    statement is a defensive one, getting ahead of the market turmoil to
    come. Imagine if, when Rossi & IH unveil the 1 year demonstration
    unit, this causes long term oil futures to plummet, bank failures due to
    cap reserve ratios plummeting, etc. You could see a wave of litigation
    coming at them saying that the technology “can’t be real” and their
    product unveiling, their supposed lies, caused economic losses and
    damages.
    The IH statement says, basically, “Only believe what is
    being said when our name is on it, and reputable third parties have
    verified”. At the same time, any information and data they release will
    have credible third parties behind it.
    They understand that which they are walking into, and they are proactively and wisely preparing for the storm in advance.

    • Brent Buckner

      You wrote: “Why was this positioning statement sent back channel rather than through a full blown PR release in public?”

      I believe that the choice of recipients was strongly related to channels disseminating the speculations that the statement is directed against. No need for a widely-distributed press release for that bit.

      • Buck

        Brent,
        I believe it speaks to a deeper intent.

        At the very least, by being back channel it signals the “friends” and “opposition” on the degree of forethought. Heck, APCO knew and used the difference between back channel and public PR. In addition, it gives everyone the face-saving opportunity to adjust their respective positions so as to reflect the power and capabilities of the APCO resources before they make a misstep based upon poor assumptions.

    • Ged

      I’ve been thinking about that CC’ing of APCO. It could be a mistake, yes, but I find that unlikely (since APCO is involved and they wouldn’t be that sloppy to reach their world renown). That leaves the other possibility that it was done deliberately. Obviously, IH would knew the bloodhounds here would track every scrap of info into the ground. So, for me anyways, I can only conclude they let the CC there to hint at how serious they are about what’s coming, and to show us who we should expect to be in control of their PR releases, so no one else can claim falsely to be involved in that.

      • Frank Acland

        I did not notice it when the email was sent to me, but I rechecked, and I found a cc for someone at APCO

        • Buck

          For me, this points to being deliberate rather than a mistake.

          • Ged

            It smacks of viral marketing.

          • Buck

            It smacks of extremely honed professionalism.

            We here accept the reality of LENR & the E-Cat. Now, this suggests if not tells me that APCO does as well . . . they recognize the extreme consequences of the introduction of LENR into the world economy. Therefore, No F*** Ups allowed.

            As a guess, the APCO team involved in the LENR introduction have worked for months to a year in preparation for the consequences.

          • Ged

            I completely agree.

            I am sure IH would have brought them on at some earlier point in the 1 year test (if all this is related to that, which I certainly think so), when it was obvious what the results were already. They would definitely have needed quite a bit of time to strategize with IH and the ERV on how to release the information. Even now, they are probably monitoring our reactions to this release (as a favorable audience with some knowledge), maybe even using us as a focus group for planning the real deal to come for communicating to a much wider world that knows nothing of this. Hence the limited release of this statement to the major LENR news outlets and communities, meanwhile also countering any sort of misinformation “leaks” anyone tries to claim before the ERV report.

          • Buck

            GED,

            I have to laugh as I came to the same conclusion regarding using us, the LENR blogs, as a focus group in addition to being an excellent back channel (kudos to you Frank)!

            At this point, we don’t know the public profile of the ERV. However, given the “craziness” on ITPR#2’s results, and the internally distributed periodic (monthly) results from the ERV, IH/Darden certainly had enough time to recognize the immense need a year before the hypothetical positive results of the Pilot Plant test.

            And the fact that he chose APCO points to his recognition of the global scope of the challenge for a successful LENR introduction. S*** happens when you screw around with the underpinnings of 8% of the global economy.

            And as a further guess, he may have requested/paid for an increase in the “irrefutable quality” of the ERV report after just a few months of Pilot Plant results. Nuclear engineers and 24/7 video monitoring aren’t free.

          • Omega Z

            You’re correct. These are not free. The product developer has to pay all the expense and note these Certifying entities are for profit as well.(Not Cheap).

      • I got emails to three email addresses and they all had the APCO cc. No mistake.

        • Buck

          Wow ! ! !

        • Heath

          Perhaps APCO asked IH to keep them in the loop when not releasing statements through APCO’s official channels?

          • The normal procedure when working with PR agencies and communicating with media is that the company sends messages directly to media representatives, putting the PR agency as CC. Or when doing live interviews, having a member of the PR agency present at the interview, listening to everything and from time to time making a remark or taking over if matters are becoming delicate.

          • Buck

            Mats,
            Do you have an opinion regarding the IH positioning statement that you can share?

          • Mats,

            I hope you are correct. A few weeks ago I sent Mr. Darden an email asking for a BIG TIME press conference when the test report came out so that the entire world understands unequivocally that LENR works. My argument was that the oil markets SHOULD know what is happening and SHOULD be affected by the news, but, more importantly, the US presidential candidates should know the news. If LENR does work and the test proves it, every human being on the face of the Earth has a right and a need to know in order to shape future energy policy.

          • NCkhawk

            Mats – with all due respect, you now appear to have too much invested in Rossi and need to consider if you are interpreting developments through an overly-positive filter. What has happened to the journalist in you?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Journalists can take a stance… look at fox news, the Daily Mail, the Guardian… Al Jazeera, RT.

            Look at Stephen Krivit.

          • NCkhawk

            Such an interesting observation – unfortunately, for many reasons, Krivit may end up being the only one to have interpreted things correctly.

          • Bob Greenyer

            And so humanity will be no worse off than it is already – OR W-L theory has some legs and we are back to the races again!

          • NCkhawk

            Bob – what led you to humanity or W-L theory? . I reading things differently from a bunch of folks on this board. I don’t think that Rossi is capable of all the things he has miraculously discovered or built in the recent months. Apparently, neither does IH. My guess is that he is going to try and take deposits on as many Quarks as he can then attempt to disappear. I’m also guessing that he has already taken money from folks who believe in accountability. I also hope that I’m wrong – we’ll see where all of this ends up.

          • artefact

            I think the fuel did not change too much during the last years. Most of the advances was probably made by engineering and testing.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That is because you don’t understand the process and that it opens up a whole new technology far more expansive and practical than chemistry itself.

            Perhaps you did not read the NewScientist feature article I linked to a few months back – it was discussing the fact that we only know at most 1% of chemistry – that at attainable pressures and temperatures. Then there is the much more complex area of nuclear interactions.

            The things Rossi has been claiming recently came as NO surprise to me – it is why I published at the beginning of last year that the use of Caesium and Rubidium for instance could lead to room temperature driven reactors. With the knowledge that the reactions yield photons and that choice of transition/lanthanide/actinide/alkaline metal allowing you to hone the output – all of the things he claim follow. It was expected by me last year – that is why I did my best to make it un-patentable as the implications are astounding.

          • NCkhawk

            Bob – I don’t see much if any patentable IP in the core of CF based on the last 26 years of disclosures. We’re privileged to have someone who is smart enough to be able to see and is able to accept all the Rossi says with such a huge leap of faith. We’ll see how this all ends up working out for you.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Best case scenario, based on our empirical evidence first and then cross-referencing to the source of the theory and practice for Rossi, Piantelli/Focardi – leads to all demonstrable observables being replicatable and in line with Rossi’s and Mill’s former and current claims. World has a very bright future.

            Worst Case scenario, I go back to my self-employed day job which has nothing to do with science. I’ll increase my solar array.

          • NCkhawk

            I basically agree that LENR is our best near term hope for a bright future and will happily settle for 10W of excess heat that is sustainable / controllable and above the noise floor for starters. Charlatans will only damage this potential and need to be rooted out / stopped in their tracks.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Well – with scores of divergent theories – they can’t all be right. Some participants have tried for the right reasons – but will have to concede to what works, doesn’t mean they were necessarily frauds or intentionally misleading – they may just have been wrong.

          • psi2u2

            “That is because you don’t understand…” Yep. Thanks, Bob, for your continued enlightenment.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I will do my best to make things much clearer next week – well, as far as I understand Piantelli and can convey my comprehension.

          • LarryJ

            Velda Funderburke

            March 11, 2016 at 6:17 AM

            Dr Andrea Rossi:

            After the press release of Tom Darden the usual imbeciles are talking of
            divorce between IH and Leonardo Corporation: can you comment on this ?

            Velda

            Andrea Rossi

            March 11, 2016 at 9:16 AM

            Velda Funderburke:

            Thank you for spotting this issue: there is absolutely no divorce
            between Leonardo Corporation and any of its Licensees, included
            Industrial Heat. Industrial Heat is the legitimate licensee of Leonardo
            Corporation for its Territory and I never referred to any possible
            divorce.

            I invite anybody to disregard any innuendo, supposition, speculation
            related to the licenses of Leonardo Corporation unless they are
            communicated directly from Leonardo Corporation.

            There is some imbecile that tries to get audience inventing situations that do not exist.

            Warm Regards,

            A.R.

          • Bob Greenyer

            or not… this is obvious and needs no re-iteration. Krivit seems to work on the basis of “guilty until undeniably innocent” it is a journalist trick to solicit more information either directly or indirectly via third parties.

            Sadly, without wanting to or expecting to our REAL research has demonstrated that things Rossi has said is explainable by data acquired via the scientific method and his choice of materials and reactor design is natural when you start from the kind of results we have obtained.

            The real choice here is between an incredible genius fraud who was able to predict what nature would say and design for it in advance – or a person who may just have what he claims (which btw is in line with decades of research by other parties).

          • NCkhawk

            Bob – I am not a fan of Krivit and never have been. We have to acknowledge that he has correctly identified some folks as creeps long before anyone else picked up up on their flaws. (we are all flawed in one capacity or another) I think Krivit’s ongoing and aggressive attempts to slime folks indicate some imbalance and anger in his life. Reading between the lines, I’m interpreting Rossi’s crazy statements over the last several months and the distancing by IH from Rossi as an indication that something is not right and that someone is not telling the truth. Believe Rossi at your own risk.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Krivit wedded himself to W-L theory, I actually like much of W-L especially their more recent publication – but it does not explain Mills and Rossi historical and present. Krivit probably thinks that that means Rossi is a Fraud, but I think he is drawing the wrong conclusion. When you have two apparently working products that Piantelli either is at the root of or supports as being possible, and to date, nothing I have seen working on W-L – then what conclusions can you draw?

            For the Record, Rossi and Piantelli have another major similarity – they both have the same opinion of Krivit.

          • NCkhawk

            Bob – I believe that Piantelli is a very competent and truthful scientist. It is great that MFMP has developed a relationship with him and also believe that he has generated both excess heat and gamma radiation in his experiments that are above the noise. Rossi had the guts to use larger masses and power in a powder format and gained Focardi in process. IP was “borrowed” and created from there and that gives me some confidence that Rossi has had excess heat in some of his experiments. I don’t believe that Rossi’s exponential progress over the last 3 months is real or even possible. While the apparent IH distancing from Rossi should give us all some pause, Krivit’s nature is to pour through any opening to promote he vendetta. As stated earlier, I’m afraid that he may end up being right on Rossi.

          • LarryJ

            Exponential progress is the norm for information based technologies and the ecat is very much an information based tech. The only difference between techs is the value of the exponent. Sometimes there are periods where nothing appears to happen then a breakthrough that reestablishes the exponential rise.

          • NCkhawk,
            Thanks for this question.
            I am, and I have been, assessing all the information I have, and my reporting is the result of this assessment. I understand that to some, my reporting might seem overly pro-Rossi. My opinion, however, is that this depends on a wide-spread negative attitude based on a biased mainstream skepticism towards LENR and towards Rossi as a person. And I believe that as a journalist, in such a situation, you have to step out of the traditional role of just referring the opinions and statements of others, remaining in the mainstream, and instead trust your own assessments and stand up for them. Even though you will be accused of not being impartial. That is journalism to me.

          • georgehants

            Mats it would seem you are basing your judgements on an open-minded assessment of know Facts, far better and honest than the 95% of laughingly called qualified scientists etc. that still deny the possibility of Cold Fusion and much else.
            Another 20,000 honest journalists and the media may begin to return to some kind of genuine protector of democracy.

          • NCkhawk

            georgehants – how did you determine what is a “known Fact”? Great papers and disclosures on CF from credible scientists and organizations were abundant until the mid-90s when the money dried up. Funding has apparently returned and progress should be expected in the form of scientific disclosures, not carnival barking. For the record, I fairly confident that CF has been proven experimentally and that progress is quietly being made these days.

          • georgehants

            I will not give you information that everybody is aware of Ref. Mr. Rossi. 3rd party report, connection with IH etc. but I am certainly surprised by your use of the words “credible scientists and organizations” are there such things. please see link below.
            ractionwatch.com/2016/03/12/weekend-reads-science-reporter-fired-crappiest-fraud-ever-are-journals-necessary/

          • NCkhawk

            georgehants – there is plenty of credible and helpful LENR research that has been published: You can start with this summary of India’s BARC CF research thru 1996 when funding got cutoff. Check back with me when you’re ready some additional homework:
            http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=463

          • NCkhawk

            Mats – thank you for the thoughtful reply. I’m having hard time with so many people accepting everything that Rossi says these days as truth. In the history of invention, has there ever been such a maniacal period of progress in theory and application? The answer is no. Rossi may be a genius in many ways but there is no way that he can turn a 1MW steam engine that is the size of a shipping container into an electricity producing quark and solve the theory all in 3 months time (apparently all by himself). My guess is that he got busted by IH and has to break out on his own (which seems to be a repeated pattern) in order to continue whatever it is that he is up to. Again, I want to be wrong and time will tell but for your own sake, please keep your eyes wide open and continue ahead with the utmost of caution.

          • LarryJ

            Actually what you are describing is a breakthrough. They are known to happen.

            break·through
            ˈbrākˌTHro͞o/
            noun
            noun: breakthrough; plural noun: breakthroughs; noun: break-through; plural noun: break-throughs

            a sudden, dramatic, and important discovery or development.

    • psi2u2

      Yes, exactly.

  • Buck

    I fully agree with TPaign’s perspective presented below. However, there is an unusual element that no one seems to have addressed.

    Why was this positioning statement sent back channel rather than through a full blown PR release in public? Why now in this manner?

    This question becomes more meaningful when one recognizes the unusual disclosure of APCO Worldwide through a “mistaken” CC rather than BCC.

    ===========================
    TPaign
    Having risk management experience on the C-Suite level, my best guess regarding the meaning of the statement boils down to the following paragraph:
    “We value credibility through sound LENR research. That’s why any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.”

    This statement is a defensive one, getting ahead of the market turmoil to come. Imagine if, when Rossi & IH unveil the 1 year demonstration unit, this causes long term oil futures to plummet, bank failures due to cap reserve ratios plummeting, etc. You could see a wave of litigation coming at them saying that the technology “can’t be real” and their product unveiling, their supposed lies, caused economic losses and damages.

    The IH statement says, basically, “Only believe what is being said when our name is on it, and reputable third parties have verified”. At the same time, any information and data they release will have credible third parties behind it. They understand that which they are walking into, and they are proactively and wisely preparing for the storm in advance.

    • Brent Buckner

      You wrote: “Why was this positioning statement sent back channel rather than through a full blown PR release in public?”

      I believe that the choice of recipients was strongly related to channels disseminating the speculations that the statement is directed against. No need for a widely-distributed press release for that bit.

      • Buck

        Brent,
        I believe it speaks to a deeper intent.

        At the very least, by being back channel it signals the “friends” and “opposition” on the degree of forethought. Heck, APCO knew and used the difference between back channel and public PR. In addition, it gives everyone the face-saving opportunity to adjust their respective positions so as to reflect the power and capabilities of the APCO resources before they make a misstep based upon poor assumptions.

    • Guest

      Because it is not intended as a public statement, it was sent directly to its intended audience.

      IH is literally telling Frank, Mats, and a few others to not exacerbate the hype cycle. They also clearly say they are referring only to tech in their portfolio (so not referring to MFMP results, etc). What have those sources all been recently hyping that is related to the tech in IH’s portfolio?… the one year test and “ERV Report”.

      The worst thing that could possibly happen in this field is another P&F type fiasco where the claims get ahead of what is verifiable. This would harm IH, who has invested in more than just Rossi.

      The fact that IH says only believe what comes directly from us (and explicitly do not say “or Rossi/Leonardo”) likely indicates IH may not stand behind the test. This doesn’t mean there is a divorce between AR/IH, just that IH can not verify the results. My sense is that the test (not necessarily the results) possibly has flaws, likely related to either who the customer is (i.e., not independent) or who the reviewer is (i.e., not independent or not reputable). Rossi has been the only source of info on the test. IH has not even confirmed that one is going on, so I’d guess they’re disconnected on its validity.

      • Mark S.

        If the tests are not independent, not reputable and “un-interpretable” like the Lugano ones where then this pretty much seals it. Significant fraud becomes the best interpretation of this whole Rossi/Ecat affair.

        • Roland

          Brilliant analysis Mary, we stand in awe…

      • Brent Buckner

        You wrote: “The fact that IH says only believe what comes directly from us (and explicitly do not say “or Rossi/Leonardo”) likely indicates IH may not
        stand behind the test”

        I give higher odds than you do that IH stands behind the test. In IH’s position I wouldn’t want folks taking Rossi as speaking for IH (consider, for example, all that Rossi has already written about the E-cat X, to which we have been told IH holds license rights).

        • Guest

          I think that’s possible too. Either way it seems they’re saying that they don’t stand behind every Rossi statement.

    • Ged

      I’ve been thinking about that CC’ing of APCO. It could be a mistake, yes, but I find that unlikely (since APCO is involved and they wouldn’t be that sloppy to reach their world renown). That leaves the other possibility that it was done deliberately. Obviously, IH would know the bloodhounds here would track every scrap of info into the ground. So, for me anyways, I can only conclude they left the CC there to hint at how serious they are about what’s coming, and to show us who we should expect to be in control of their PR releases, so no one else can claim falsely to be involved in that.

      • Frank Acland

        I did not notice it when the email was sent to me, but I rechecked, and I found a cc for someone at APCO

        • Buck

          For me, this (now you and Mats) points to being deliberate rather than a mistake.

          • Ged

            It smacks of viral marketing.

          • Buck

            GED,
            It smacks of extremely honed goal oriented professionalism.

            We here accept the reality of LENR & the E-Cat. Now, this suggests if not tells me that APCO does as well . . . they recognize the extreme consequences of the introduction of LENR into the world economy. Therefore, No F*** Ups allowed.

            As a guess, the APCO team involved in the LENR introduction have worked for months to a year in preparation for the consequences.

          • Ged

            I completely agree.

            I am sure IH would have brought them on at some earlier point in the 1 year test (if all this is related to that, which I certainly think so), when it was obvious what the results were already. They would definitely have needed quite a bit of time to strategize with IH and the ERV on how to release the information. Even now, they are probably monitoring our reactions to this release (as a favorable audience with some knowledge), maybe even using us as a focus group for planning the real deal to come for communicating to a much wider world that knows nothing of this. Hence the limited release of this statement to the major LENR news outlets and communities, meanwhile also countering any sort of misinformation “leaks” anyone tries to claim before the ERV report.

          • Buck

            GED,

            I have to laugh as I came to the same conclusion regarding using us, the LENR blogs, as a focus group in addition to being an excellent back channel (kudos to you Frank)! It gets strange when you humorously picture the rats in the maze looking back at the scientists with the proverbial thought bubble that opens the question of who is measuring who.

            To add to your argument: At this point, we don’t know the public profile of the ERV. However, given the “craziness” of ITPR#2’s results, and the internally distributed periodic (monthly) results from the ERV, IH/Darden certainly had enough time to recognize the immense need a year before the hypothetical positive results of the Pilot Plant test.

            And the fact that he chose APCO points to his recognition of the global scope of the challenge for a successful LENR introduction. S*** happens when you screw around with the underpinnings of 8% of the global economy.

            And as a further guess, he may have requested/paid for an increase in the “irrefutable quality” of the ERV report after just a few months of Pilot Plant results. Nuclear engineers and 24/7 video monitoring aren’t free.

          • Omega Z

            You’re correct. These are not free. The product developer has to pay all the expense and note these Certifying entities are for profit as well.(Not Cheap).

      • I got emails to three email addresses and they all had the APCO cc. No mistake.

        • Buck

          Wow ! ! !

        • Heath

          Perhaps APCO asked IH to keep them in the loop when not releasing statements through APCO’s official channels?

          • The normal procedure when working with PR agencies and communicating with media is that the company sends messages directly to media representatives, putting the PR agency as CC. Or when doing live interviews, having a member of the PR agency present at the interview, listening to everything and from time to time making a remark or taking over if matters are becoming delicate.

          • Buck

            Mats,
            Do you have an opinion regarding the IH positioning statement that you can share?

          • Mats,

            I hope you are correct. A few weeks ago I sent Mr. Darden an email asking for a BIG TIME press conference when the test report came out so that the entire world understands unequivocally that LENR works. My argument was that the oil markets SHOULD know what is happening and SHOULD be affected by the news, but, more importantly, the US presidential candidates should know the news. If LENR does work and the test proves it, every human being on the face of the Earth has a right and a need to know in order to shape future energy policy.

          • Dms

            While I hope for an announcement of results, I see no logical reason for IH to say anything public in the near future. This report will be for big current and future investors. But at some point it could leak and they need a firm to help them if we reach a tipping point. So I look forward to results from mfmp and the related replications. That is exciting!!!

          • As you say, there is no reason to go public now, and probably won’t be in the foreseeable future, unless they ever decide to mass market some industrial LENR product. Series or batch production of industrial heaters won’t need marketing, as word of mouth and ‘leaks’ will sell anything they can produce. Those awaiting some kind of big splash have a long wait ahead I’m afraid.

          • Agreed.

          • clovis ray

            Hi. guy.
            How much money, would you think I/H has poured in to this project, wouldn’t they want to make some money as soon as possible, in order to
            Recoup some of their loses.

          • NCkhawk

            Mats – with all due respect, you now appear to have too much invested in Rossi and need to consider if you are interpreting developments through an overly-positive filter. What has happened to the journalist in you?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Journalists can take a stance… look at fox news, the Daily Mail, the Guardian… Al Jazeera, RT.

            Look at Stephen Krivit.

          • NCkhawk

            Such an interesting observation – unfortunately, for many reasons, Krivit may end up being the only one to have interpreted things correctly.

          • Bob Greenyer

            And so humanity will be no worse off than it is already – OR W-L theory has some legs and we are back to the races again!

          • NCkhawk

            Bob – what led you to humanity or W-L theory? . I reading things differently from a bunch of folks on this board. I don’t think that Rossi is capable of all the things he has miraculously discovered or built in the recent months. Apparently, neither does IH. My guess is that he is going to try and take deposits on as many Quarks as he can then attempt to disappear. I’m also guessing that he has already taken money from folks who believe in accountability. I also hope that I’m wrong – we’ll see where all of this ends up.

          • artefact

            I think the fuel did not change too much during the last years. Most of the advances was probably made by engineering and testing.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That is because you don’t understand the process and that it opens up a whole new technology far more expansive and practical than chemistry itself.

            Perhaps you did not read the NewScientist feature article I linked to a few months back – it was discussing the fact that we only know at most 1% of chemistry – that at attainable pressures and temperatures. Then there is the much more complex area of nuclear interactions.

            The things Rossi has been claiming recently came as NO surprise to me – it is why I published at the beginning of last year that the use of Caesium and Rubidium for instance could lead to room temperature driven reactors. With the knowledge that the reactions yield photons and that choice of transition/lanthanide/actinide/alkaline metal allowing you to hone the output – all of the things he claim follow. It was expected by me last year – that is why I did my best to make it un-patentable as the implications are astounding.

          • NCkhawk

            Bob – I don’t see much if any patentable IP in the core of CF based on the last 26 years of disclosures. We’re privileged to have someone who is smart enough to be able to see and is able to accept all the Rossi says with such a huge leap of faith. We’ll see how this all ends up working out for you.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Best case scenario, based on our empirical evidence first and then cross-referencing to the source of the theory and practice for Rossi, Piantelli/Focardi – leads to all demonstrable observables being replicatable and in line with Rossi’s and Mill’s former and current claims. World has a very bright future.

            Worst Case scenario, I go back to my self-employed day job which has nothing to do with science. I’ll increase my solar array.

          • NCkhawk

            I basically agree that LENR is our best near term hope for a bright future and will happily settle for 10W of excess heat that is sustainable / controllable and above the noise floor for starters. Charlatans will only damage this potential and need to be rooted out / stopped in their tracks.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Well – with scores of divergent theories – they can’t all be right. Some participants have tried for the right reasons – but will have to concede to what works, doesn’t mean they were necessarily frauds or intentionally misleading – they may just have been wrong.

          • psi2u2

            “That is because you don’t understand…” Yep. Thanks, Bob, for your continued enlightenment.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I will do my best to make things much clearer next week – well, as far as I understand Piantelli and can convey my comprehension.

          • LarryJ

            Velda Funderburke

            March 11, 2016 at 6:17 AM

            Dr Andrea Rossi:

            After the press release of Tom Darden the usual imbeciles are talking of divorce between IH and Leonardo Corporation: can you comment on this ?

            Velda

            Andrea Rossi

            March 11, 2016 at 9:16 AM

            Velda Funderburke:

            Thank you for spotting this issue: there is absolutely no divorce between Leonardo Corporation and any of its Licensees, included Industrial Heat. Industrial Heat is the legitimate licensee of Leonardo Corporation for its Territory and I never referred to any possible divorce.

            I invite anybody to disregard any innuendo, supposition, speculation related to the licenses of Leonardo Corporation unless they are communicated directly from Leonardo Corporation.

            There is some imbecile that tries to get audience inventing situations that do not exist.

            Warm Regards,

            A.R.

          • bachcole

            BTW, I told you imbeciles.

          • clovis ray

            Hi ,NCK,
            It has not been months, try decades, and what of his life’s work, many many years, of design, measurements, observations, experiments and down and dirty building of this device, you like many, want him to just turn it over to the vultures .

          • Bob Greenyer

            or not… this is obvious and needs no re-iteration. Krivit seems to work on the basis of “guilty until undeniably innocent” it is a journalist trick to solicit more information either directly or indirectly via third parties.

            Sadly, without wanting to or expecting to our REAL research has demonstrated that things Rossi has said is explainable by data acquired via the scientific method and his choice of materials and reactor design is natural when you start from the kind of results we have obtained.

            The real choice here is between an incredible genius fraud who was able to predict what nature would say and design for it in advance – or a person who may just have what he claims (which btw is in line with decades of research by other parties).

          • NCkhawk

            Bob – I am not a fan of Krivit and never have been. We have to acknowledge that he has correctly identified some folks as creeps long before anyone else picked up up on their flaws. (we are all flawed in one capacity or another) I think Krivit’s ongoing and aggressive attempts to slime folks indicate some imbalance and anger in his life. Reading between the lines, I’m interpreting Rossi’s crazy statements over the last several months and the distancing by IH from Rossi as an indication that something is not right and that someone is not telling the truth. Believe Rossi at your own risk.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Krivit wedded himself to W-L theory, I actually like much of W-L especially their more recent publication – but it does not explain Mills and Rossi historical and present. Krivit probably thinks that that means Rossi is a Fraud, but I think he is drawing the wrong conclusion. When you have two apparently working products that Piantelli either is at the root of or supports as being possible, and to date, nothing I have seen working on W-L – then what conclusions can you draw?

            For the Record, Rossi and Piantelli have another major similarity – they both have the same opinion of Krivit.

          • NCkhawk

            Bob – I believe that Piantelli is a very competent and truthful scientist. It is great that MFMP has developed a relationship with him and also believe that he has generated both excess heat and gamma radiation in his experiments that are above the noise. Rossi had the guts to use larger masses and power in a powder format and gained Focardi in process. IP was “borrowed” and created from there and that gives me some confidence that Rossi has had excess heat in some of his experiments. I don’t believe that Rossi’s exponential progress over the last 3 months is real or even possible. While the apparent IH distancing from Rossi should give us all some pause, Krivit’s nature is to pour through any opening to promote he vendetta. As stated earlier, I’m afraid that he may end up being right on Rossi.

          • LarryJ

            Exponential progress is the norm for information based technologies and the ecat is very much an information based tech. The only difference between techs is the value of the exponent. Sometimes there are periods where nothing appears to happen then a breakthrough that reestablishes the exponential rise.

          • bachcole

            The datapoints fit, but that does not make it a fact. I remain utterly neutral on the matter.

          • clovis ray

            lol.

          • NCkhawk,
            Thanks for this question.
            I am, and I have been, assessing all the information I have, and my reporting is the result of this assessment. I understand that to some, my reporting might seem overly pro-Rossi. My opinion, however, is that this depends on a wide-spread negative attitude based on a biased mainstream skepticism towards LENR and towards Rossi as a person. And I believe that as a journalist, in such a situation, you have to step out of the traditional role of just referring the opinions and statements of others, remaining in the mainstream, and instead trust your own assessments and stand up for them. Even though you will be accused of not being impartial. That is journalism to me.

          • georgehants

            Mats it would seem you are basing your judgements on an open-minded assessment of known Facts, far better and honest than the 95% of laughingly called qualified scientists etc. that still deny the possibility of Cold Fusion and much else.
            Another 20,000 honest journalists and the media may begin to return to some kind of genuine protector of democracy.

          • NCkhawk

            georgehants – how did you determine what is a “known Fact”? Great papers and disclosures on CF from credible scientists and organizations were abundant until the mid-90s when the money dried up. Funding has apparently returned and progress should be expected in the form of scientific disclosures, not carnival barking. For the record, I fairly confident that CF has been proven experimentally and that progress is quietly being made these days.

          • georgehants

            I will not give you information that everybody is aware of Ref. Mr. Rossi. 3rd party report, connection with IH etc. but I am certainly surprised by your use of the words “credible scientists and organizations” are there such things. please see link below.
            ractionwatch.com/2016/03/12/weekend-reads-science-reporter-fired-crappiest-fraud-ever-are-journals-necessary/

          • NCkhawk

            georgehants – there is plenty of credible and helpful LENR research that has been published: You can start with this summary of India’s BARC CF research thru 1996 when funding got cutoff. Check back with me when you’re ready some additional homework:
            http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=463

          • bachcole

            A known fact is one that georgehants believes to be true. It’s really quite simple. You need to get with the program, NCkhawk.

          • NCkhawk

            Mats – thank you for the thoughtful reply. I’m having hard time with so many people accepting everything that Rossi says these days as truth. In the history of invention, has there ever been such a maniacal period of progress in theory and application? The answer is no. Rossi may be a genius in many ways but there is no way that he can turn a 1MW steam engine that is the size of a shipping container into an electricity producing quark and solve the theory all in 3 months time (apparently all by himself). My guess is that he got busted by IH and has to break out on his own (which seems to be a repeated pattern) in order to continue whatever it is that he is up to. Again, I want to be wrong and time will tell but for your own sake, please keep your eyes wide open and continue ahead with the utmost of caution.

          • LarryJ

            Actually what you are describing is a breakthrough. They are known to happen.

            break·through
            ˈbrākˌTHro͞o/
            noun
            noun: breakthrough; plural noun: breakthroughs; noun: break-through; plural noun: break-throughs

            a sudden, dramatic, and important discovery or development.

          • bachcole

            A good journalist is one that agrees with me. A bad journalist is one that disagrees with me. (:->)

          • bachcole

            That is exactly my read; I could not have said it better. I don’t understand the confusion with all of the other speculations here.

    • psi2u2

      Yes, exactly.

  • The waters are now murky. We can speculate all day, but until Industrial Heat makes a clear and detailed statement about what they are talking about we won’t know. Are they saying that the year long test was a failure? If the E-Cat did not create major excess heat, they would have stopped the test right then and there, and the factory owner would have walked out of the contract. So nothing makes much sense right now. Are they talking about the rather foolish posts of people speculating (deceptively) about the COP of the test on blogs (I am not talking about Andrea Rossi), or are they talking about news of the new E-Cat X design from Rossi himself? I wrote Cherokee for answers, but I doubt I will get a reply. Hopefully, the full report on the big E-Cat test should come out soon and then the waters may clear,…I hope.

    • Omega Z

      When you look at all their previous statements, you’ll realize this is just their standard response. Saying nothing. Keep in mind, Tom Darden really doesn’t like the lime light.

  • The waters are now murky. We can speculate all day, but until Industrial Heat makes a clear and detailed statement about what they are talking about we won’t know. Are they saying that the year long test was a failure? If the E-Cat did not create major excess heat, they would have stopped the test right then and there, and the factory owner would have walked out of the contract. So nothing makes much sense right now. Are they talking about the rather foolish posts of people speculating (deceptively) about the COP of the test on blogs (I am not talking about Andrea Rossi), or are they talking about news of the new E-Cat X design from Rossi himself? I wrote Cherokee for answers, but I doubt I will get a reply. Hopefully, the full report on the big E-Cat test should come out soon and then the waters may clear,…I hope.

    • Omega Z

      When you look at all their previous statements, you’ll realize this is just their standard response. Saying nothing. Keep in mind, Tom Darden really doesn’t like the lime light.

  • Donald Rumsfeld once stated:

    “Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don’t know we don’t know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.”

    I say FUBAR!

  • Donald Rumsfeld once stated:

    “Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don’t know we don’t know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.”

    I say FUBAR!

    • vokzzi V

      Rumsfeld said nothing about the “unknown knowns ” . The stuff we know but do not tell anyone.

      • A very astute (and amusing) observation, vokzzi V.

  • Omega Z

    Google tends to be more consumer friendly more content with profit from volume. I can’t say the same for Apple or GE.

  • Paul Maher

    Let us not forget the efforts of NASA and the boys at Langley Research Center. Industrial Heat may rise or fall, but Doug Wells still wants to power aircraft with LENR, and Nicolas Chauvin still wants to power cars with it. The thing that most people fear is all of the technology being bought up and dumped by a large corporation looking to extend the Fossil Fuel Age. If we are lucky that isn’t the case with Industrial Heat.

  • Paul Maher

    Let us not forget the efforts of NASA and the boys at Langley Research Center. Industrial Heat may rise or fall, but Doug Wells still wants to power aircraft with LENR, and Nicolas Chauvin still wants to power cars with it. The thing that most people fear is all of the technology being bought up and dumped by a large corporation looking to extend the Fossil Fuel Age. If we are lucky that isn’t the case with Industrial Heat.

  • Roland

    Brilliant analysis Mary, we stand in awe…

  • hereandthere

    George, you still miss Morgan’s point: actual change comes through the power of the love, competence and kindness of individuals and small groups invested in a common belief or cause. Every change you cite began this way; individuals and small groups charged with a moral imperative sacrificially working towards the imperative’s implementation. Most great positive changes occur when increasing numbers of individuals and small groups no longer accept the unjust/immoral imposition of the will of the ‘established’ bureaucracy…be it political, social or religious…or even scientific!

    Large bureaucracies, including the UN, are filled with ambitious and self serving people because the truism is always true: power corrupts. Manipulation and control become the primary concerns. There may be a few moral people(normally ‘followers’) in the bureaucracy, but true morality is not the underlying and driving force of large organizations. Can you name a single large bureaucracy that is not at least partially corrupt? I can’t, and once I stopped believing in illusions of how I thought the world was, should or could be, I began facing the world as it really is.

    The hope you seek in man is misplaced; this is not a forum for preaching, but there is an eternal Hope that actually can change the heart of individual men and woman. That is where Hope, both in this world and the next, lies. It is through such Hope-filled men, woman and children that just change can come as the moral imperative takes on greater significance at the individual level.

    Again, it is good to be a realist in this world. The most highly ambitious and driven, the most power/authority hungry will continue to drive to the top of bureaucracies. Without God, human nature does not change much. Even with God, men and women find it difficult to not be corrupted by the lure and intoxication of ‘authority’.

    So, we, as individuals, must do what we can to live the moral imperatives in which we believe, and take joy in knowing we are doing our imperfect best to love and live what we believe. But we must be realistic about the world in which we live and the ever-present potential for evil/injustice all around us. There is no utopian solution, for now. Yes, that is sad, but it is truth. Ten generations hence, unless He intervenes, we will be addressing the same issues.
    rant over…

    • georgehants

      hereandthere, Thank you for such a thinking, aware reply that I agree with entirely.
      It is not that “I do not get it” it is that knowing all that you say is True, it makes good sense for those who care to start making a noise.
      You have put up your reply because I put up my comment.
      Would you have put it up without my comment.
      It has always been known as “the silent majority”
      In my opinion your point, that change comes when people react is very True.
      It must start somewhere and here is as good as anywhere else.
      Cold Fusion is a technology that can change the World.
      Do you believe it should be freely available for those most in need, I think you do and you have Wonderfully put forward that good people can change things, well now is the opportunity for you and others to voice those concerns and hopefully make a difference.
      Best

  • Eyedoc

    mendacious ex billionaire ?? name ??

  • Omega Z

    To Big to Fail is starting to become less relevant with big banks.
    They are turning away from the general consumer catering to and for the rich & well off. No one cares if someone like Bill Gates goes broke or loses a Billion$ or 2. People only care when average people lose their homes and savings.

    Prior to the housing bubble burst, Big banks carried 75% of home loans. Since then they have reduced that to 25%. By 2020, they hope to have zero share of the home loan business.

    The reason for this is Very large banks are required to hold much more capital in reserve when dealing with consumer loans(Non working funds) reducing return while still retaining all the risk. In simple terms, the loan risks are the same as before, but with lower returns/profits.

    The end result is you will finance through smaller more local banks, credit unions or home loan companies. Higher down payments & higher credit scores to qualify.
    ——————————————————————-
    As to Big banks and Oil, They are already restricted as to how much loss exposure they can have. Something like 10% and it’s considereed the other 90% of their assets will help them recover should Bad Happen.

    Still, it will hurt the general economy while they recover.

  • Karl Venter

    Stand Fast Gentleman
    There is an Energy Revolution approaching

  • Karl Venter

    Stand Fast Gentleman
    There is an Energy Revolution approaching

  • e-dog

    what is going on?? i was at work

    • Nothing new yet.
      Still speculating pro and con.

      • e-dog

        thank you

        • bachcole

          I love your avatar. I am an absolute slave to sweetness, innocence, vulnerability, and cuteness. (:->)

          • James Thomas

            So too Meher Baba, I imagine.

  • e-dog

    im lost, didnt they say this the other day?

    • e-dog

      i think this is old news… frank did you take a day off?

      • e-dog

        why are so many people commenting on this??? i missed soemthing?

    • A very astute (and amusing) observation, vokzzi V.

  • e-dog

    im lost, didnt they say this the other day?

    • e-dog

      i think this is old news… frank did you take a day off?

      • e-dog

        why are so many people commenting on this??? i missed soemthing?

        • bachcole

          Beats the living daylights out of me. Mats Lewan already said all that needs to be said.

          • Mats002

            No show up – no existence?

          • bachcole

            Man!! That was deep! So deep that I don’t know what you just said. Could you explain it to me?

  • georgehants

    Five days to go, approx, before Mr Rossi is hopefully confirmed as one of the greatest scientists in history.
    It I think, would be a terrible shame and mistake if that clear confirmation was lost in bureaucratic posturing and tactics.
    Time for Mr. Rossi to start receiving the credit and accolades that he
    deserves, unlike the horrors that P&F received before one of them
    died, having achieved things way beyond all of establishment science.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I would argue he put the wheels on the car, he made it happen by first having faith in the HUGE body of scientific endeavour that preceded his core work ( he apparently did try to replicate P&F early on) and then having the courage to try and apply his own insight and the tenacity to go the long haul.

      I believe the drive that made him a long distance runner and the injustice he suffered – combined with an apparent lifelong desire to make cleaner fuels made him uniquely equipped to make the existing technology practical.

      You don’t have a bridge until the chasm is fully spanned, and he filled the critical gap to get us from Fire to the New Fire.

      Whilst SKINR are using a different Nickel and did not bake in air as we did, driven by learning from our Celani wire preparation work and as advised by Parkhomov, they may still replicate within 5 days and so IH may be forced to announce.

      Mr. Rossi deserves full credit for taking the baton the final stretch in an epic rely run spanning more than 1/4 century and filled with unnecessary hurdles and diversions.

      • Sanjeev

        So what are the chances of success if skinr are not following the recipe exactly?

        • Bob Greenyer

          They have done the most important steps – de-oxygenation and hydriding the Nickel – so fair to middling… but they are preparing a follow on with more faithful material processing.

          • Sanjeev

            That’s good to know. There was no need to skip steps, anyway lets see.

          • Bob Greenyer

            They just made a mistake. Plus they are “interpreting” our temperature and dwell times rather than following them exactly – but since they are their own shop and cannot possibly do an exact replication – it is less critical.

    • Frank Acland

      I wouldn’t hang too much expectation on that countdown clock, George. It’s based on a guessed timing by AR after he announced the end of the test.

      • georgehants

        Frank, fully understand, but the point stays the same.
        Sooner the better for most of us I think.
        How many comments on page first day when it is released, my guess 1127.

        • Frank Acland

          1128

          • georgehants

            Ha.

          • Mats002

            1129

    • Omega Z

      It will probably be several more months George. The data is going to receive a lot of skeptical scrutiny. Lots of t’s to cross and i’s to dot…

  • georgehants

    Five days to go, approx, before Mr Rossi is hopefully confirmed as one of the greatest scientists in history.
    It I think, would be a terrible shame and mistake if that clear confirmation was lost in bureaucratic, financial, posturing and tactics.
    Time for Mr. Rossi to start receiving the credit and accolades that he
    deserves, (unlike the horrors that P&F received before one of them
    died) he having (if genuine) achieved things way beyond all of establishment science combined.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I would argue he put the wheels on the car, he made it happen by first having faith in the HUGE body of scientific endeavour that preceded his core work ( he apparently did try to replicate P&F early on) and then having the courage to try and apply his own insight and the tenacity to go the long haul.

      I believe the drive that made him a long distance runner and the injustice he suffered – combined with an apparent lifelong desire to make cleaner fuels made him uniquely equipped to make the existing technology practical.

      You don’t have a bridge until the chasm is fully spanned, and he filled the critical gap to get us from Fire to the New Fire.

      Whilst SKINR are using a different Nickel and did not bake in air as we did, driven by learning from our Celani wire preparation work and as advised by Parkhomov, they may still replicate within 5 days and so IH may be forced to announce.

      Mr. Rossi deserves full credit for taking the baton the final stretch in an epic rely run spanning more than 1/4 century and filled with unnecessary hurdles and diversions.

      • Sanjeev

        So what are the chances of success if skinr are not following the recipe exactly?

        • Bob Greenyer

          They have done the most important steps – de-oxygenation and hydriding the Nickel – so fair to middling… but they are preparing a follow on with more faithful material processing.

          • Sanjeev

            That’s good to know. There was no need to skip steps, anyway lets see.

          • Bob Greenyer

            They just made a mistake. Plus they are “interpreting” our temperature and dwell times rather than following them exactly – but since they are their own shop and cannot possibly do an exact replication – it is less critical.

      • clovis ray

        Bob, boy you sure know how to spin a yarn , spin spin, what a crafty web we weave, you know as well as i that the ecat, has very little if anything to do with F/P debacle, or any other that i seen. even when they are told how to make the device.

        P.s.I would like to make an observation here,about something i have noticed regarding the no.# of replication that are turning up lately, none that i know of we keep hearing about this one and that one but never a conclusion, could it be that , I/H is buying them up as fast as they show anything close to their tech.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Clovis, there is no way they can do a F&P on this… it is everywhere and accelerating.

          You are right about the disappearing replicators – essentially, they are private, institution or government funded – and as SOON as these bodies get unquestioned results, they go dark – with or without a secondary buy out – that is why the MFMP must defend its integrity and independence and see this journey through.

    • Frank Acland

      I wouldn’t hang too much expectation on that countdown clock, George. It’s based on a guessed timing by AR after he announced the end of the test.

      • georgehants

        Frank, fully understand, but the point stays the same.
        Sooner the better for most of us I think.
        How many comments on page first day when it is released, my guess 1127.

        • Frank Acland

          1128

          • georgehants

            Ha.

          • Mats002

            1129

          • LION

            Everyone would have much more fun if they thought Ha Ha, QV Engineering is a reality, and makes MIRACLES POSSIBLE.

    • Omega Z

      It will probably be several more months George. The data is going to receive a lot of skeptical scrutiny. Lots of t’s to cross and i’s to dot…

  • AdrianAshfield

    I recall in an interview Tom Darden said he didn’t think he had ever released a “public statement.” So the targeted release of this current statement is nothing new.

  • AdrianAshfield

    I recall in an interview Tom Darden said he didn’t think he had ever released a “public statement.” So the targeted release of this current statement is nothing new.

  • Mats002

    No show up – no existence?

  • Frank Acland

    Dr Andrea Rossi:

    Which is the Territory controlled directly from Leonardo Corporation and its commercial licensees and agents ?

    Andrea Rossi

    March 12, 2016 at 8:15 AM
    Xavier:
    Europe, Oceania, Africa, Asia, with exception of Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and Emirates.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Frank Acland

      Which is what Mats Lewan has said recently.

  • Frank Acland

    Dr Andrea Rossi:

    Which is the Territory controlled directly from Leonardo Corporation and its commercial licensees and agents ?

    Andrea Rossi

    March 12, 2016 at 8:15 AM
    Xavier:
    Europe, Oceania, Africa, Asia, with exception of Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and Emirates.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Frank Acland

      Which is what Mats Lewan has said recently.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Does anyone now believe there has not been a fall out between IH and Rossi? Rossi showed up for work a few months back and found all his competitors there with recorders in hand. (: There has not been a license divorce but the lawyers are gearing up.

    1. March 12, 2016 at 9:42 AM

    Dear Andrea,

    Congratulations on your latest LENR theoretical discovery.

    Looking forward to its publicized release.

    Now that the 1MW test is over and your time is dedicated to the success of the E-Cat X at Leonardo’s lab in Miami, are you still Industrial Heat’s chief scientist?

    With much respect,

    Brokeeper

    2. Andrea Rossi

    March 12, 2016 at 10:27 AM

    Brokeeper:

    No, my work in Leonardo Corporation absorbs my full time.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    • It means there has been a reorganization. At some point they decided that the IP would stay with Leonardo Corp as would Rossi and Industrial Heat would be a licensee only. Rossi being the Chief Scientist of IH never made much sense to me because a) he’s not really a scientist and b) IH was doing more than just E-Cats. I think this current arrangement makes sense.

      It must be said though that one possible interpretation of the IH communication and the relationship between IH and Rossi becoming more distinct is exactly what the skeptopaths have been saying all along: Rossi took them for a ride and now he has finally been debunked by the ERV and so IH is kicking him to the curb… That the E-Cat Xquark is just the next iteration of scam and that the plant never worked and the E-Cats never worked.

      I think there’s strong circumstantial info that counters all that, but I suppose we’ll find out shortly one way or the other. If this all is not the real deal IH should say so, clearly, so we can concentrate on what’s real.

      • georgehants

        Full Definition of scientist
        1 : a person learned in science and especially natural science : a scientific investigator.

        • I see Rossi more as a consummate engineer/lab rat. I suppose that’s a kind of scientist, but not usually the kind that gets appointed as Chief Scientist.

          • georgehants

            Your opinion goes completely against the definition of a scientist, you seem to be confusing it with a humble applied scientist.
            I will stick with the dictionary definition.

          • Ok, george, have a nice day.

          • georgehants

            Best. 🙂

      • Axil Axil

        Just a short time ago, IH applied for their own patent based on the Lugano test results. That must have been an effort to develop IH’s own IP. A patent defines the IP. That patent was not granted to the best of my knowledge. There will be more attempts for IH to develop their own IP.

        Rossi might have decided it was safer for his best interests to keep his distance from IH to protect his IP. Remember that Defkalion made of impressive effort to develop their own IP, and Rossi hated Defkalion with a passion.

        Rossi and his funders have a mongoose and cobra love affair. It will be interesting to see who will eat whom.

        • Mr. Darden does not care about money. He believes in man made global warming, and that is his only motivation for interest in LENR.

          • Axil Axil

            Get real. Darden has investors and they care about money a great deal. If Darden does not get a good return on investment, he will find himself on the bread line.

          • I think our worry should be does the E-Cat really work as advertised rather than to worry that it works so well that everyone is fighting over it to make more money. Tom Darden is already rich and could retire any time he wants and have no money worries for as long as he lives. People do have values, right or wrong, that transcend money and personal power.

          • Axil Axil

            Get real. Did you know that most charities only spend 50% of their income on the poor and the other 50% in supporting the lavish lifestyle of the officers of the charities.

            It is hard to be poor, most saints are poor and it is hard to be a saint.

            And Jesus said to His disciples, Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, Then who can be saved?

          • Brokeeper

            “…but with God all things are possible.” (through Christ)

          • You are making false arguments. People who actually give to charities have good intentions, as do billionaire charity givers like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett. Have you never in your life done anything for the greater good of humanity and not just your own personal income? I do not believe man made global warming is a big problem right now as Darden does, but I honestly think Tom Darden is a good person with high ideals. I do not think he wants to screw Andrea Rossi out of money. I am getting real. Maybe your problem is that you never had the urge to do something good for the world. If you had, you would not find that urge so difficult to believe.

          • Axil Axil

            In the beginning, Rossi said that he would give all his money to sick children throughout the world. Ask him how much he has given so far.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Perhaps he meant in his will

          • Axil Axil

            In the U.S., all but 10 million of your money goes to the government upon your death. It is called the inheritance tax.

            This is why the rich give their money away to charities while they are alive.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Well, Since he has, to the best of my knowledge, not actually shipped much product, he would be wise to keep his powder dry for the commercial and legal fights ahead before he can be comfortable giving his proceeds away.

          • Axil Axil

            Also campaign contributions to politicians must be paid.

          • Bob Greenyer

            ooo – you cynic!

          • Omega Z

            Not all States have an Inheritance tax or Estate tax, but a couple have both
            There is an exemption up to certain amount dependent on the state(It varies) you live in and is levied to the individual heir. Inheritance tax rates also vary by State and can be as low as 1 percent or as high as 20 percent of the value of Property and Cash you inherit beyond the individual heir exemption.

            For the U.S. Federal Government, there is a difference between estate and inheritance taxes. Estate taxes are levied on representatives of the deceased person, while inheritance taxes are levied on the beneficiaries of an estate. The process is complex(Also involves the states), but basically, the 1st 5.5 Million$(Net) is exempt. Beyond that the rate is 40% plus whatever State Inheritance taxes are. All in addition to taxes you paid while living.

            However, The Bill & Melinda Gates foundation avoids all this. Who do you think will be in charge and/or on the payroll when their gone. Their Kids who will be quite well paid paying taxes only on their income. Thus assuring their kids are still among the wealthy elite even should they blow through their original inheritance. There is also Living trusts that work in a similar fashion both avoiding Inheritance tax.

            To avoid income tax. Invest in Municipal bonds. There is no Federal tax and may also be exempt from local & state taxes as well. These are for the not so well off.

          • You are the king of false arguments. Rossi has not sold enough E-Cats (if any) to make a significant profit, and he promised to give *half* of the big profits to come to charity. He is not in the billionaire industrialist stage yet. The E-Cat revolution has not even gotten off the ground. If you are so cynical you are incapable of seeing any good in other people, then you have a problem inside you. It is possible that anyone could turn out to be a liar and a crook, but to make that blanket assumption of all people all the time is sad and statistically incorrect, at least in the USA and Europe. In some Third World countries I know, you might have a point.

          • Omega Z

            Actually, Rossi said half of his profits and that to children who have cancer. It would also be given directly skipping the middle man. However, he isn’t there yet. This was meant after he brought the E-cat to market and starts making a profit..

          • sam

            With a Businessman its money first.
            Global warming second.
            If the Ecat is successfull or not he wiil be known
            as the one who took the risk to invest in it.

    • Maybe IH is now the main corporation, and Leonardo Corp is just the R&D branch, which also holds all inventions.

      • If we could get a look at the precise agreements between all the entities involved it would solve a lot of mysteries.

      • Leo is not a subsidiary of IH, but the owner of the IP. IH,RG and HF has the distribution licenses. Leo and HF are possibly working together in europe,

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Nice map, Sifferkoll. I am not so sure about Russia, see Rossi’s (usually somewhat ambiguous) comment below.

          Q: Which is the Territory controlled directly from Leonardo Corporation and its commercial licensees and agents?

          Andrea Rossi
          March 12, 2016 at 8:15 AM

          Xavier:
          Europe, Oceania, Africa, Asia, with exception of Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and Emirates.
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.

          • NT

            Why are the America’s left out of this response from Rossi?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            If I recall it correctly, he mentioned them in an earlier comment.

          • NT

            Thanks for the reply as the way things are happening so fast it seems very strange that he left out a major area that was assigned to IH, almost implying something by that omission – I hope not…

          • Omega Z

            Industrial heat has ALL the Americas.

          • Brokeeper

            I think its based on the E-Cat not the E-Cat X, correct Sifferkoll?

          • Hard to say. There are some leaked contract drafts between Roger Green and Leonardo from 2012/13 on a well known pathoskeptic site. From those it does not seam obvious if the ECATX is covered, allthough they talk about “all future e-cat products, including any domestic …” etc. So I guess its up to the lawyers do discuss .

          • North, South America, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and Emirates is controlled by IH. Rossi’s answer regards the rest of the world, which is controlled by Leonardo and its commercial licensees and agents, exactly as the question was.

          • NT

            Got it, thanks Mats for the brain tap. I was thrown off by the rest of the question “and its commercial licensees”.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            Very similar to the section of the New World between Spain and Portugal at the Vatican.

    • LarryJ

      Andrea Rossi

      March 11, 2016 at 9:16 AM

      Velda Funderburke:

      Thank you for spotting this issue: there is absolutely no divorce
      between Leonardo Corporation and any of its Licensees, included
      Industrial Heat. Industrial Heat is the legitimate licensee of Leonardo
      Corporation for its Territory and I never referred to any possible
      divorce.

      I invite anybody to disregard any innuendo, supposition, speculation
      related to the licenses of Leonardo Corporation unless they are
      communicated directly from Leonardo Corporation.

      There is some imbecile that tries to get audience inventing situations that do not exist.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

    • clovis ray

      Now there is a pieace of news, hummmmm

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Does anyone now believe there has not been a fall out between IH and Rossi? Rossi showed up for work a few months back and found all his competitors there with recorders in hand. (: There has not been a license divorce but the lawyers are gearing up.

    1. March 12, 2016 at 9:42 AM

    Dear Andrea,

    Congratulations on your latest LENR theoretical discovery.

    Looking forward to its publicized release.

    Now that the 1MW test is over and your time is dedicated to the success of the E-Cat X at Leonardo’s lab in Miami, are you still Industrial Heat’s chief scientist?

    With much respect,

    Brokeeper

    2. Andrea Rossi

    March 12, 2016 at 10:27 AM

    Brokeeper:

    No, my work in Leonardo Corporation absorbs my full time.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    • From that exchange I DO NOT think a fall out likely. You are still making things up imo.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        EE: I don’t get it, everyone is speculating, don’t I get my chance. (:

        • Please continue to speculate. I’m not trying to stop you by saying you are likely seeing things that aren’t there. At the time, I just didn’t think you had enough evidence yet to say the role changes meant Rossi and IH had a bitter falling out – just my opinion expressed, as was yours.

          It could have been a completely amicable rearrangement.

          Although now that Godes weighed in above, perhaps you really are on to something.

    • It means there has been a reorganization. At some point they decided that the IP would stay with Leonardo Corp as would Rossi and Industrial Heat would be a licensee only. Rossi being the Chief Scientist of IH never made much sense to me because a) he’s not really a scientist and b) IH was doing more than just E-Cats. I think this current arrangement makes sense.

      It must be said though that one possible interpretation of the IH communication and the relationship between IH and Rossi becoming more distinct is exactly what the skeptopaths have been saying all along: Rossi took them for a ride and now he has finally been debunked by the ERV and so IH is kicking him to the curb… That the E-Cat Xquark is just the next iteration of scam and that the plant never worked and the E-Cats never worked.

      I think there’s strong circumstantial info that counters all that, but I suppose we’ll find out shortly one way or the other. If this all is not the real deal IH should say so, clearly, so we can concentrate on what’s real.

      • georgehants

        Full Definition of scientist
        1 : a person learned in science and especially natural science : a scientific investigator.

        • I see Rossi more as a consummate engineer/lab rat. I suppose that’s a kind of scientist, but not usually the kind that gets appointed as Chief Scientist.

          • georgehants

            Your opinion goes completely against the definition of a scientist, you seem to be confusing it with a humble applied scientist.
            I will stick with the dictionary definition.

          • Ok, george, have a nice day.

          • georgehants

            Best. 🙂

          • bachcole

            Does this mean that Darden et. al. see Rossi better than you do?

      • Axil Axil

        Just a short time ago, IH applied for their own patent based on the Lugano test results. That must have been an effort to develop IH’s own IP. A patent defines the IP. That patent was not granted to the best of my knowledge. There will be more attempts for IH to develop their own IP.

        Rossi might have decided it was safer for his best interests to keep his distance from IH to protect his IP. Remember that Defkalion made of impressive effort to develop their own IP, and Rossi hated Defkalion with a passion.

        Rossi and his funders have a mongoose and cobra love affair. It will be interesting to see who will eats whom.

        • Mr. Darden does not care about money. He believes in man made global warming, and that is his only motivation for interest in LENR.

          • bachcole

            Close, but only half a cigar. The problem with what you said is that most all of his income has been based upon restoring so-called brown fields, which do not pollute the atmosphere. A better description of him would be that he is anti-pollution, and the global warming absurdity is only part of it. Despite the fact that he believes in AGW, I find him to be one of the good guys. Intentions are more important than opinions.

          • Axil Axil

            Get real. Darden has investors and they care about money a great deal. If Darden does not get a good return on investment, he will find himself on the bread line.

          • I think our worry should be does the E-Cat really work as advertised rather than to worry that it works so well that everyone is fighting over it to make more money. Tom Darden is already rich and could retire any time he wants and have no money worries for as long as he lives. People do have values, right or wrong, that transcend money and personal power.

          • Axil Axil

            Get real. Did you know that most charities only spend 50% of their income on the poor and the other 50% in supporting the lavish lifestyle of the officers of the charities.

            It is hard to be poor, most saints are poor and it is hard to be a saint.

            And Jesus said to His disciples, Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, Then who can be saved?

          • Brokeeper

            (“…but with God all things are possible.” through Christ)

          • You are making false arguments. People who actually give to charities have good intentions, as do billionaire charity givers like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett. Have you never in your life done anything for the greater good of humanity and not just your own personal income? I do not believe man made global warming is a big problem right now as Darden does, but I honestly think Tom Darden is a good person with high ideals. I do not think he wants to screw Andrea Rossi out of money. I am getting real. Maybe your problem is that you never had the urge to do something good for the world. If you had, you would not find that urge so difficult to believe.

          • Axil Axil

            In the beginning, Rossi said that he would give all his money to sick children throughout the world. Ask him how much he has given so far.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Perhaps he meant in his will

          • Axil Axil

            In the U.S., all but 10 million of your money goes to the government upon your death. It is called the inheritance tax.

            This is why the rich give their money away to charities while they are alive.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Well, Since he has, to the best of my knowledge, not actually shipped much product, he would be wise to keep his powder dry for the commercial and legal fights ahead before he can be comfortable giving his proceeds away.

          • Axil Axil

            Also campaign contributions to politicians must be paid.

          • Bob Greenyer

            ooo – you cynic!

          • Omega Z

            Not all States have an Inheritance tax or Estate tax, but a couple have both
            There is an exemption up to certain amount dependent on the state(It varies) you live in and is levied to the individual heir. Inheritance tax rates also vary by State and can be as low as 1 percent or as high as 20 percent of the value of Property and Cash you inherit beyond the individual heir exemption.

            For the U.S. Federal Government, there is a difference between estate and inheritance taxes. Estate taxes are levied on representatives of the deceased person, while inheritance taxes are levied on the beneficiaries of an estate. The process is complex(Also involves the states), but basically, the 1st 5.5 Million$(Net) is exempt. Beyond that the rate is 40% plus whatever State Inheritance taxes are. All in addition to taxes you paid while living.

            However, The Bill & Melinda Gates foundation avoids all this. Who do you think will be in charge and/or on the payroll when their gone. Their Kids who will be quite well paid paying taxes only on their income. Thus assuring their kids are still among the wealthy elite even should they blow through their original inheritance. There is also Living trusts that work in a similar fashion both avoiding Inheritance tax.

            To avoid income tax. Invest in Municipal bonds. There is no Federal tax and may also be exempt from local & state taxes as well. These are for the not so well off.

          • You are the king of false arguments. Rossi has not sold enough E-Cats (if any) to make a significant profit, and he promised to give *half* of the big profits to come to charity. He is not in the billionaire industrialist stage yet. The E-Cat revolution has not even gotten off the ground. If you are so cynical you are incapable of seeing any good in other people, then you have a problem inside you. It is possible that anyone could turn out to be a liar and a crook, but to make that blanket assumption of all people all the time is sad and statistically incorrect, at least in the USA and Europe. In some Third World countries I know, you might have a point.

          • Omega Z

            Actually, Rossi said half of his profits and that to children who have cancer. It would also be given directly skipping the middle man. However, he isn’t there yet. This was meant after he brought the E-cat to market and starts making a profit..

          • bachcole

            People who actually give to charities usually have mixed motives, some of which are charity, desire for fame, wanting to piss-off their relatives, desire for a good afterlife, ego, etc. etc. etc.

          • sam

            With a Businessman its money first.
            Global warming second.
            If the Ecat is successfull or not he wiil be known
            as the one who took the risk to invest in it.

      • “Rossi took them for a ride and now he has finally been debunked by the ERV and so IH is kicking him to the curb… ”

        That might just be the case… and since Godes just posted this 22 minutes ago on this site, it I think it is now more likely:

        “It is important to read between the lines. I suspect one of the most important statements is “any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.” IE people should learn to ignore statements put out directly by Rossi.”

    • Maybe IH is now the main corporation, and Leonardo Corp is just the R&D branch, which also holds all inventions.

      As seen on this picture by sifferkoll, this would make sense:

      http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/license1-1024×724.png

      IH has the most global influence. Rossi isn’t CTO of IH anymore, but CEO of Leonardo Corp. Which is now a subsidiary of Industrial Heat.

      Just speculation…

      • If we could get a look at the precise agreements between all the entities involved it would solve a lot of mysteries.

      • Leo is not a subsidiary of IH, but the owner of the IP. IH,RG and HF has the distribution licenses. Leo and HF are possibly working together in europe,

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Nice map, Sifferkoll. I am not so sure about Russia, see Rossi’s (usually somewhat ambiguous) comment below.

          Q: Which is the Territory controlled directly from Leonardo Corporation and its commercial licensees and agents?

          Andrea Rossi
          March 12, 2016 at 8:15 AM

          Xavier:
          Europe, Oceania, Africa, Asia, with exception of Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and Emirates.
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.

          • NT

            Why are the America’s left out of this response from Rossi?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            If I recall it correctly, he mentioned them in an earlier comment.

          • NT

            Thanks for the reply as the way things are happening so fast it seems very strange that he left out a major area that was assigned to IH, almost implying something by that omission – I hope not…

          • Omega Z

            Industrial heat has ALL the Americas.

          • Brokeeper

            I think its based on the E-Cat not the E-Cat X, correct Sifferkoll?

          • Hard to say. There are some leaked contract drafts between Roger Green and Leonardo from 2012/13 on a well known pathoskeptic site. From those it does not seam obvious if the ECATX is covered, allthough they talk about “all future e-cat products, including any domestic …” etc. So I guess its up to the lawyers do discuss .

          • North, South America, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and Emirates is controlled by IH. Rossi’s answer regards the rest of the world, which is controlled by Leonardo and its commercial licensees and agents, exactly as the question was.

          • NT

            Got it, thanks Mats for the brain tap. I was thrown off by the rest of the question “and its commercial licensees”.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            Very similar to the section of the New World between Spain and Portugal at the Vatican.

          • bachcole

            Because there are silly people in America who fret about every little detail and Rossi likes to get them going.

          • NT

            With all due respect, the America’s are a big deal and not a small detail as you imply…

          • bachcole

            You inferred the wrong implication. (:->) My inference was that you and many other people here are fretting about details. I am just waiting and having fun.

    • Jerry US

      Dr Rossi and Leonardo Corporation own ALL the patents and intellectual property and Industrial Heat and the others ONLY have marketing rights under strict control of signed contracts with Leonardo Corporation – end of story – Marketing to start within weeks.

      • you act like you know what you are talking about. do you really?

      • BillH

        AR works for IH, is paid by IH and has a contract with IH. All the data and equipment from the year long test is therefore owned by IH. If AR was to consider striking out on his own again the markets contracted to IH would be closed to him. Set aside the blow to his reputation this would be, it would put back development several more years.

    • bachcole

      There is no falling out. People of such good will and doing something of such momentous promise are not going to fall out. In 10 or 20 years, there may be some kind of falling out, but not now, just before the baby is to be delivered.

    • LarryJ

      Andrea Rossi

      March 11, 2016 at 9:16 AM

      Velda Funderburke:

      Thank you for spotting this issue: there is absolutely no divorce
      between Leonardo Corporation and any of its Licensees, included
      Industrial Heat. Industrial Heat is the legitimate licensee of Leonardo
      Corporation for its Territory and I never referred to any possible
      divorce.

      I invite anybody to disregard any innuendo, supposition, speculation
      related to the licenses of Leonardo Corporation unless they are
      communicated directly from Leonardo Corporation.

      There is some imbecile that tries to get audience inventing situations that do not exist.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

    • clovis ray

      Now there is a pieace of news, hummmmm

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    EE: I don’t get it, everyone is speculating, don’t I get my chance. (:

  • akupaku

    What a hilarious show of human emotions here, gossiping, speculating and quarrelling like a bunch of cranky old women, lol. Hopes, wishful thinking, despair, skepticism and everything in between on display.

    I find all that almost as interesting and entertaining as following the more factual LENR news and developments. ;o)

    The fact is we don’t know what is happening behind the scenes.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Hilarious and – unless we are all fools suffering gladly – the most important discussion on the planet right now.

      • akupaku

        Sure, I agree. Well, maybe I am not quite sure about the “most” part but very important anyway. And hilarious and entertaining at the same time too. ;o)

        • Omega Z

          Hey, I thought your species offed itself because of DNA shift that you couldn’t correct. 🙂

    • bachcole

      I have learned to skip over the comments that you have described. But like Bob Greenyer says just below me, this is the most important discussion on Planet Earth now, perhaps the most important discussion in human history.

  • It is important to read between the lines. I suspect one of the most important statements is “any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.” IE people should learn to ignore statements put out directly by Rossi.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Robert, by understanding (without assuming correct) Piantelli theory, I published at the beginning of last year that the use of other Alkaline metals, preferably Caesium due to its properties, would lead to low temperature reactors – I published this so that it could not be patented because of the implications. I note that Piantelli also came to the same conclusion.

      Having known this for nearly a year and having seemingly through our own simple experiment verified Rossi’s long standing claims of the level and type of radiation (and only that type of radiation) and in context with the coherence of Mills SunCell – none of what Rossi subsequently said about the E-Cat X-Ray came as any surprise.

      I think it would be unwise to ignore what Rossi has said – time and time again, the MFMP has put forward natural design choices based off our findings only to have a crowd member dig up some historical statement from Rossi that supports the natural design choice.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Well, the idea that the use of other alkali metals, like caesium or potassium, would allow lower temperatures is not that new…

        • Bob Greenyer

          An earlier citation with reference to working reactors/theory would be awesome, can you provide one – my purpose was to make it open, I would be extremely happy if there was an earlier reference in the same context. Please share.

          I saw the use of Potassium mentioned in respect of the Low temp E-Cat – but I had not personally seen reference to lower than body temp reactors connected to an explanation of how and why.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            About official publications I am not sure, but the idea has been mentioned often on this blog and in other forums.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I have mentioned it often, in as much as I have referred people to the spreadsheet I made that lead me to the conclusion based on assuming Piantelli theory.

            Before the beginning of last year – I had no real idea why Rossi used Li and how it worked much better (other than 1H + 7Li), I don’t know if Rossi ever did really either, but Piantelli did immediately, as soon as he saw it in the Lugano report and so he contacted us, following learning the real reason – I started telling people why – to this date I don’t know if Rossi has supported the reason why.

            Note: as I have put on the record long ago, I was told in Rome on Dec 14th 2012, to add an alkaline metal. That was long before I heard Rossi mention it – but then I have never read JoNP or Mat’s Lewan’s book – but that came after the above date.

          • Obvious

            Have a read of Arthur Wehnelt, 1904.”About the discharge of negative ions from glowing metal compounds and related phenomena”

          • Bob Greenyer

            Sounds riveting – no really, have you an ISBN?

          • Obvious

            You can download a copy here, about a page down, look for the red writing in English: http://www.cdvandt.org/year_1904.htm

            It is in German, though.

            There is a brief summary here:

            https://www.researchgate.net/publication/4136012_100_Years_anniversary_of_the_oxide_cathode_-a_historical_review

            Note that nickel is shown to be the best base for the alkaline oxides, and it is only a hop to the alkaline metals which are normally a nuisance to use for obvious reasons.

            (H acts atomically as an alkaline metal also).

            The idea in reactor building is clearly not to build a vacuum tube, but building something close is most likely the way to go, otherwise the mean free path of the anions is too short to get things moving fast enough to do the dance.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Sorry but this is talking about Group 2 elements – I am ONLY referring to group 1. It is also not in relation to the New Fire in any way.

            In addition, Piantelli says if there is even the slightest hint of Oxygen in there – you’ll not see excess heat. I am minded to believe him now.

            I hope to clearly explain why this coming week.

            So is there any other references you can cite that are related to Piantelli theory and the extension achieved by Rossi (which he may not have understood) and when you look at it from the perspective of Piantelli theory led both I and Piantelli to suggest Caesium, Rubidium etc as more effective embodiments (and in my case, specifically for less than body temp reactor startup).

          • Obvious

            The relation to the new fire is not direct, but the reasoning behind using alkali metals is very much on point. It is the huge decrease in the work function for ionization which allows the H- to exist in the system at low potentials.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Even though that work was ground breaking – it gives NO indication on how to achieve the New Fire – many critical theories had not even been established then – it’s like saying “the elements were discovered first, therefore nothing new” – Piantelli knew for an extremely long time that H- was critical, perhaps he knew about group 1 alkaline Hydrides before Rossi – perhaps Rossi did not know how it catalysed the process – but the evidence suggests, Rossi used it first and it apparently works.

          • Obvious

            All the good old guys would know a bunch of old-fashioned and very effective ways to get H- if they were looking to do that.

            Nickel and PGEs do it one way, alkali metals do it another way, electricity does it another way, pressure variations do it another way, temperature does it another way…

            It could be like orchestrating a concert to apply as many ways as possible at once that don’t interfere with each other.

            (Rossi loves “The Concert”, which is in part about spontaneous harmony.)

          • Bob Greenyer

            They would know… but they lived without the work laid down by Piantelli, Focardi et all… and even if they did live at the same time – they would have had to have been exposed and interested in it enough to consider it.

            Rossi was the right person at the right time. Did he know what was going on? If he did – he did not say (to the best of my knowledge).

          • Obvious

            What I mean about the good old guys is Piantelli and his generation. Not the “ancient” discoverers from the turn of the 20th century.

            Now we are so removed from the original discoveries by time and technological leaps that the particular reasons for using things (or the reasons why things are not used) are often more of a mystery than they might be, unless it fits into your arena of specialized knowledge and expertise.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Oh yes Obvious, Piantelli at every step in his description would get books from his very extensive library – and I mean extensive, showing time and time again that things that are critical to the process were fully described 40,50,60,70,80,90,100+ years ago… he would point to the book or to the page.

            He would regularly say “I don’t understand why people think they are discovering something here – this was done in 19xx” It is only with his incredible overview of much of the 20th century that you could have the insight to connect the dots. All of the previous 30 years to his schooling would have been from the start of the 20th century – so effectively – he did not miss a trick.

          • clovis ray

            paintelli haas nothing of use if he did he would show it, where is his proof of anything, BIG O

          • Bob Greenyer

            Piantelli and Focardi’s work underpins much of modern research into the New Fire, without its precedence Rossi would have nothing. Rossi sought members of the Piantelli/Focardi group to work with for this reason, he acquired Focardi and Piantellis work is the only work ever challenged by IH/Leonardo.

            As I say in my last video – Rossi’s most significant contribution – that of adding an Group 1, Alkaline Metal / Alkaline Metal Hydride – made the technology practical. Mills however has – through his own interpretation and pursuit of the same property of Nature has created a practical generator with only Part of Piantelli’s understanding.

            It is a beautiful blue ocean of opportunity.

          • Frank Acland

            Maybe we are looking at an April delivery of the report. Perhaps later . . .

            Andrea Rossi

            March 12, 2016 at 8:05 PM

            Achilles:

            Obviously the report will be delivered and all this mumbojumbo tango of the obscure forces or suppositions of any kind has no merit at all.
            The time normally necessary for the formulation of a report based upon tens of millions of data collected in one year of test is a couple of months and the test has been completed on the 17th of February. Every person with a minimum kowledge of the matter understands that if the ERV takes a couple of months to complete his work, it is totally normal.

            Warm Regards,

            A.R.

          • Frank Acland

            Andrea Rossi

            March 12, 2016 at 8:13 PM

            Wise Guy:

            Give to the ERV about a couple of months to complete his work, to stay inside the normality in cases like this.

            Warm Regards,

            A.R.

          • So, the rumor of an “executive summary” of the report floating around may not be true?

          • Omega Z

            Thus, Do not believe the rumors on the net unless affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments. Third party as in EVR.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I like this phrase “all this mumbojumbo tango”

            hehe

          • sam

            I wonder why he did not say up to 2 months when the test
            ended.
            Has anyone been involved in a ERV report.

          • Axil Axil

            VortexL post

            Axil Axil 1/28/12
            to vortex-l

            Mills recipe for Rossi’s secret sauce.

            Reference:

            http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=40&ved=0CHYQFjAJOB4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciteseerx.ist.psu.edu%2Fviewdoc%2Fdownload%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.29.695%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&ei=81IkT-zMDYr10gGU0LzsCA&usg=AFQjCNF5SQt3JVNF_ecKuWA6uwMNrthKgQ&sig2=155KUMofVJ27VAps7p8Pxw

            Formation of Hydrogen Plasma from an Incandescently Heated Hydrogen-Catalys Gas Mixture with an Anomalous Afterglow Duration

            Randell L. Mills

            Takeyoshi Onuma

            Ying Lu

            BlackLight Power, Inc.

            At the turn of this century, Mills performed a water shed experiment that defines how to produce abundant amounts of Rydberg atoms and the catalysts that best generate them.

            IMHO, in this experiment, Mills misunderstood how Rydberg atoms react and interpreted his results as produced by the fictitious hydrino atom; a misinformed concept of his own invention.

            This paper will provide a solid foundation for all those aspiring E-Cat replicators who want to produce a Ni-H reactor using a Rydberg catalyst.

            Of special note is a summary table of alkali based Rydberg atom catalysts. Mills also experimentally determines that the production of Rydberg atoms is best formed by using a two second power interruption delay.

            This allows for excited Rydberg atom condensation to form from the interaction between the alkali and hydrogen plasmas.

            Such a delay has been detected in the early Rossi power feed of his internal heater.

            Rossi also defines the temperature levels to be attained required by the internal heater to activate the “secret sauce” catalysts

            This is a description of a titanium dissociator and a catalyst coating comprising one of potassium, rubidium, cesium, and their carbonates and nitrates.

            This paper is a must read for all those who are serious in their desire to replication of the Rossi and the derivative Defkalion – Green Technologies Ni-H reactors.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Still not elemental and in same context as my deliberate disclosure – but pre-dates patent application – all good.

          • georgehants

            Bob, thanks for following the line of invalidating patents, makes me feel much better.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The next presentation I will make will look at how pretty much everything was in the original Rossi Focardi reactor to enable the claimed stimulation methods quoted in Piantellis patent. Key elements were in the lapsed Canon patent also.

            I will also point to modes of operation that were discussed in papers in 2002.

          • Frank Acland

            Probably not relevant to the present conversation, but interesting to me. On Facebook Fulvio Fabiani
            was asked if he would evaluate the Looking For Heat test bed and he responded: “Sorry in this moment it’s impossible because I have exclusive contract with IH for lenr technology.”

            https://www.facebook.com/groups/ECat.LENR/permalink/1336889139660320/

          • Wasn’t he a team member of Rossi?

          • Frank Acland

            He has certainly worked with Rossi on the 1MW plant, but I think he worked for IH. He told Mats Lewan: “To be more precise I am bound by an agreement with Industrial Heat, and I’m available for Rossi to be his right arm. I cannot give any more details due to an NDA”.

            https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/11/25/rossis-engineer-i-have-seen-things-you-people-wouldnt-believe/

          • georgehants

            Is it known if IH are doing research of their own outside of that being done by Mr. Rossi.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I think it is widely known they are funding other organisations / companies / individuals. In addition, there is evidence to suggest they have set up their own labs and we know they have applied for their own patent.

          • georgehants

            Thanks Bob, if they have their own labs then IP could become a minefield in the future.

          • Bob Greenyer

            IH basically tried to patent a tube furnace (good luck with that!)- and they did not reveal the specific fuel combination, just an observation from Lugano report and the resulting ash analysis – that is they did not mention that there was preferably extra free Lithium as detailed in the Rossi patent.

            This begs the question – does IH actually know what preferred fuel embodiments are?

          • As pointed out here:
            https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2867-Industrial-Heat-Makes-Statement-Regarding-LENR-Industry-Developments/?postID=15168#post15168

            Industrial Heat seems to be capable to built an ecat/hot-cat completely independet from Rossi.

          • Building a reactor, yes. But preparing the fuel?

          • we-cat

            Indeed. The “Biz Journal” of the Raleigh Triangle reported last year that IH was leasing a 20K SQF new space that would serve as a lab. Other Cherokee investments would join them there.

            It is hard however to get a follow-up on that story.

          • Frank Acland

            HMRI R&D was registered in North Carolina last year with John T. Vaughn and Antonio LaGatta as directors. The address listed is 13000 Weston Parkway, Cary, NC 27513 and the story in Biz Journal said the new IH lab would be in Cary, (a city adjacent to Raleigh)

            Here’s the location on Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/13000+Weston+Pkwy,+Cary,+NC+27513/@35.8231983,-78.8104827,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x89acf226e13099b3:0xc4c3af11ba1d8407

          • Bob Greenyer

            On google maps – the building was designated as Agilent Technologies Inc

            But they moved out in 2014. “Agilent Technologies (NYSE: A) has officially vacated more than 46,000 square feet off Weston Parkway in Cary, a side effect of an offshoring decision that was made more than a year ago.”

            http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2014/01/agilent-technologies-vacates-weston.html

          • we-cat

            Frank, thanks. You are a true journalist.

          • Veblin

            I have had a question bothering me for almost two weeks.
            I have looked. I have thought. I have failed.

            Hydrogen Modular Reactor Innovation.
            Heat My Reactor Intensely.
            How Mad Rossi Is.
            And many more bad guesses.

            Who will be the first to figure, find or correctly guess what HMRI means?

          • artefact

            Hurray My Reactor Ignites
            Have My Reactors Industrialised

          • Omega Z

            Bob, Check out the CPC codes // Cooperative Patent Classification

            Low temperature nuclear fusion reactors, e.g. alleged cold fusion reactors

            http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/classification/cpc/html/cpc-G21B.html
            ——————————————————————————
            Pub. No.: US 20140326711 A1
            Pub. Date: Nov. 6, 2014

            Applicant: Industrial Heat, Inc., Raleigh, NC (US)
            Inventor: Andrea Rossi, Maimi Beach, FL (US)
            Assignee: LEONARDO CORPORATION Maimi Beach, FL (US)

            Appl. No. 14/262,740
            Filed: Apr. 26, 2014

            Int. Cl.
            H05B 1/02 (2006.1)
            G21B 3/00 (2006.01)
            CPC ……. H05B 1/023 (2013.01); G21B 3/002 (2013.01)

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thanks

          • Alan Smith

            As I understand it Fulvio Fabiani is Rossi’s electrical/control system specialist. I believe his CV included a period working on gaming machine design and build. Three cherries every time! Shame he can’t be tempted to play with our reactor system- but then again I reckon he’s pretty busy.

            http://www.Lookingforheat.com

          • Bob Greenyer

            mmm yoghurt…

          • Bob Greenyer

            You can’t blame a patent examiner for not really knowing prior art when many of the New Fire researchers do not! Me included.

            2 years ago I applied to a UK grant agency to use a big data analysis system to go through all LENR-CANR papers and more – to create a public application people could use to instantly cross-correlate with. Had I got funding – this would make this process trivial.

          • Owen Geiger

            There is commercially available search software that will do this on your computer. Nothing special needed, although it wouldn’t be public.

            And I’m sure you know how to use google to search within one specific website.

          • Axil Axil

            Vortex-l post

            There are about 100 of these posts on vortex L regarding the subject matter you are referencing.
            =========

            The right fitting of the secret sauce.

            Axil Axil to vortex-l

            The right fitting of the secret sauce.

            Table Key-> Alkaline Hydride/temperature of decomposition/boiling point/vapor point at 20 atmospheres.

            Potassium(K) hydride/Decomposes at ~400 °C/ 759 °C/470 °C

            Lithium(Li) hydride/Decomposes at 900–1000 °C/ 1342 °C/930 °C

            Cesium(Cs) hydride/Decomposes at ~170 °C/  671 °C/400 °C

            Rubidium(Rb) hydride/ Decomposes at 170°C/  688 °C/430 °C

            Sodium(Na) hydride/ Decomposes at 800°C/ 883 °C/630 °C

            Rossi has told us that his reactor runs at 400 °C. The table above lists the Mills type Alkali metal catalysts that Rossi might be using in his reactor we call his secret sauce.

            The table shows that at the stated 400 °C operating temperature of the Rossi reactor, lithium and sodium are not a good fit for the catalyst because they will condense out of the hydrogen envelope an be depositied on all the cold surfaces of the reactor vessel that are below the vapor point of these elements after they are initially vaporized by the internal heater. Being so randomly deposited solid hydride form throughout the insides of the reactor vessel, the internal heater will then be unable to access them for re-vaporization during the next heating cycle.

            Potassium is marginal with a vapor point at 20 atmospheres of pressure at 470 °C.

            The best fit is Cesium(Cs) and possibly Rubidium(Rb) at a vapor point at 20 atmospheres of pressure at 400 °C and 430 °C respectively.

            Cesium vapor will remain as vapor suspended in the hydrogen envelope at the 400 °C reactor operating temperature where the internal heater can access it again as vapor for repeated re-ionization.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Again – whilst it is great that these all mention other Group 1 metals – they mention them as Hydrides none of which operate below 170ºC by themselves – I specifically mention it in its elemental form and draw my inference from the melting point of the non-hydrided metal. This, to my knowledge pre-dated any priority on a Rossi patent, unless there is one yet to be published – since Rossi is not claiming the action of the group 1 element in the same way as Piantelli – it is not necessarily obvious that he would have come to the same conclusion – in addition, whilst a low temperature Group 1 element may be needed to start the reaction – Lithium may be the right element for promotion of high yield – and that may have held back his early thinking.

            Time will tell.

          • Axil Axil

            I have posted on the SmCo magnet dust here but it has not yet been approved. This catalyst is active to a maximum up to 80C at very low production energy. You will note it has nothing to do with H- but demonstrates the real fundamental cause of the LENR reaction, That cause is monopole flux tube interaction with protons and neutrons.

            It pains me to see you stuck on Piantelli’s theoretical fly paper. You’re such a noble and stout fellow.

            I will post it here for your convenience.

            https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2860-The-Dennis-Cravens-Golden-Ball-reaction/?postID=15001&highlight=SmCo#post15001

          • Bob Greenyer

            I suggested the use of SmCo to Celani at ICCF-18, mainly due to its properties.

            The Dennis Cravens golden balls would be no problem for Piantelli core theory – that which applies to his, Mills and Rossi’s embodiments ( and probably others that are claiming a different process ).

            Both Samarium (Lanthanide) and Cobalt (Transition metal) are active materials according to Piantelli.

            I understand that the balls contained a range of other materials and a proportion of H2 and D2 – some loaded. It is explainable (apparently) by D2 exchange – I don’t know to be honest.

            Without testing the exact formulation – which included much more than SmCo – I don’t think anyone can draw any conclusions. I suggest you ask Dennis what was in it – because any suggestion about knowing how it worked is seriously pointless otherwise.

            This experiment says nothing. There are no meaningful metrics that can be set against outcome.

            Don’t worry about me – I’ll be fine.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            For some time to come you talked to this page with Mr. Gordes. How fit vascha theory of the alkali metals in the work LENR reactor BRILOVN company?

          • Axil Axil

            Here is a real old vortex-L post that goes way back to 2011.
            ===========

            Axil Axil 5/15/11

            to vortex-l

            [quote] Part2:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD81qF-cIIc&NR=1

            Now, this is interesting:

            The guy (a patent attorney) asks why in the patent there is no mention of the catalyst, while he now states that there is a catalyst. The guy next points out that IF there is a catalyst and the catalyst is not disclosed into the patent than the patent will be null and void and cannot be enforced.

            (surprise surprise)

            Levi reply: I used the term catalyst as a material, but we are talking about the same “object”, let me call it an object and I know it exists because Rossi declares that it exists, even if I never cared to check what this object is made of.

            (He switched from the word catalyst (intended as a chemical material) to the word catalyst intended as an object that acts as a catalyst.)

            The next guy states that he is puzzled by the issue that Prof. Levi believes Rossi without caring to know what the catalyst is.

            Prof Levi declares that he does not care because he saw the machine working, so he really does not care about what the catalyst is or is made of.[/quote]

            I humbly ask the experts in patent law that frequent this thread to share their judgment about the intellectual property protection afforded a “method” of catalytic activity that is provided as opposed to the catalyst as a “material”.

            More specifically, “my current theory of catalytic spill over activity” in operation as the active agent in the Rossi reactor is the production of negative hydrogen clustered ions using electrical and/or activation of graphite possibly coated with a low work function electron emitter and/or hydride host such as cesium or lithium.

            Is such a mechanism protected as intellectually protected property without specific disclosure of its existence and explanation of its operation?

          • Obvious

            Oh man, the auto translate for that video… LOL. Did she really say the F-word and mention 72 virgins?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thank you Axil, whilst the carbon is not necessary and the comment does not specifically mention very low temperature operation, this does pre-date the patent disclosure from Rossi of Lithium – which is good, It does not pre-date the 22 March 2010 Rossi/Focardi paper, that mentions Lithium – but in a different context.

            Can the comment be sufficient to act as prior disclosure?

          • Axil Axil

            By the way Defkalion told me that when they tried my suggested secret sauce, it worked for them.

    • Mats002

      Thanks for your response, agree ‘Rossi says’ is not enough. What is your assessment of where NiH energy tech stands today?

    • Brokeeper

      And perhaps from anyone with an underlying ideological plan or program opposing another.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Clovis, there is no way they can do a F&P on this… it is everywhere and accelerating.

        You are right about the disappearing replicators – essentially, they are private, institution or government funded – and as SOON as these bodies get unquestioned results, they go dark – with or without a secondary buy out – that is why the MFMP must defend its integrity and independence and see this journey through.

    • Stephen

      Robert it seems things are moving fast in many areas of the LENR field at the moment. May I ask how things are going at Brillouin? Or are you also restricted in what you can say at this time? A lot seemed to happen with your technology and company as well last year. Can you say if we can expect new announcements following last years developments in the near future this year?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Dear Robert, Rossi, in the interview with Ruby Carat – self admits that he gets ahead of himself on where a thing can be commercially. You are bang on there!

      For me, I have a cold room in my house that I have to have a 500W electric heater in to make it useable even though there is a radiator in there. If I had a reactor that produces 750W output (COP 1.5) I would save 1 days electricity in 3 – I would be a happy bunny.

  • It is important to read between the lines. I suspect one of the most important statements is “any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.” IE people should learn to ignore statements put out directly by Rossi.
    In response to some of the replies…I intended the bit of “statements put out directly by Rossi” mostly in regards to the market readiness of his “products”.

    • Cough… Thanks for weighing in. Sh!t is getting real!

    • Bob Greenyer

      Robert, by understanding (without assuming correct) Piantelli theory, I published at the beginning of last year that the use of other Alkaline metals, preferably Caesium due to its properties, would lead to low temperature reactors – I published this so that it could not be patented because of the implications. I note that Piantelli also came to the same conclusion.

      Having known this for nearly a year and having seemingly through our own simple experiment verified Rossi’s long standing claims of the level and type of radiation (and only that type of radiation) and in context with the coherence of Mills SunCell (supported by Piantelli’s preceding not complete support for Mill’s theory) – none of what Rossi subsequently said about the E-Cat X-Ray came as any surprise.

      I think it would be unwise to ignore what Rossi has said – time and time again, the MFMP has put forward natural design choices based off our findings only to have a crowd member dig up some historical statement from Rossi that supports that natural design choice.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Well, the idea that the use of other alkali metals, like caesium or potassium, would allow lower temperatures is not that new…

        • Bob Greenyer

          An earlier citation with reference to working reactors/theory would be awesome, can you provide one – my purpose was to make it open, I would be extremely happy if there was an earlier reference in the same context. Please share.

          I saw the use of Potassium mentioned in respect of the Low temp E-Cat – but I had not personally seen reference to lower than body temp reactors connected to an explanation of how and why.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            About official publications I am not sure, but the idea has been mentioned often on this blog and in other forums.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I have mentioned it often, in as much as I have referred people to the spreadsheet I made that lead me to the conclusion based on assuming Piantelli theory.

            Before the beginning of last year – I had no real idea why Rossi used Li and how it worked much better (other than 1H + 7Li), I don’t know if Rossi ever did really either, but Piantelli did immediately, as soon as he saw it in the Lugano report and so he contacted us, following learning the real reason – I started telling people why – to this date I don’t know if Rossi has supported the reason why.

            Note: as I have put on the record long ago, I was told in Rome on Dec 14th 2012, to add an alkaline metal. That was long before I heard Rossi mention it – but then I have never read JoNP or Mat’s Lewan’s book – but that came after the above date.

          • Obvious

            Have a read of Arthur Wehnelt, 1904.”About the discharge of negative ions from glowing metal compounds and related phenomena”

          • Bob Greenyer

            Sounds riveting – no really, have you an ISBN?

          • Obvious

            You can download a copy here, about a page down, look for the red writing in English: http://www.cdvandt.org/year_1904.htm

            It is in German, though.

            There is a brief summary here:

            https://www.researchgate.net/publication/4136012_100_Years_anniversary_of_the_oxide_cathode_-a_historical_review

            Note that nickel is shown to be the best base for the alkaline oxides, and it is only a hop to the alkaline metals which are normally a nuisance to use for obvious reasons.

            (H acts atomically as an alkaline metal also).

            The idea in reactor building is clearly not to build a vacuum tube, but building something close is most likely the way to go, otherwise the mean free path of the anions is too short to get things moving fast enough to do the dance.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Sorry but this is talking about Group 2 elements – I am ONLY referring to group 1. It is also not in relation to the New Fire in any way.

            In addition, Piantelli says if there is even the slightest hint of Oxygen in there – you’ll not see excess heat. I am minded to believe him now.

            I hope to clearly explain why this coming week. I have asked ANYONE out there, repeatedly, to explain why before I do. I am sure they’ll be a lot of “yeh I knew that first” people, but In my experience, I learn’t it from Piantelli.

            So is there any other references you can cite that are related to Piantelli theory and the extension achieved by Rossi (which he may not have understood) and when you look at it from the perspective of Piantelli theory led both I and Piantelli to suggest Caesium, Rubidium etc as more effective embodiments (and in my case, specifically for less than body temp reactor startup).

          • Obvious

            The relation to the new fire is not direct, but the reasoning behind using alkali metals is very much on point. It is the huge decrease in the work function for ionization which allows the H- to exist in the system at low potentials.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Even though that work was ground breaking – it gives NO indication on how to achieve the New Fire – many critical theories had not even been established then – it’s like saying “the elements were discovered first, therefore nothing new” – Piantelli knew for an extremely long time that H- was critical, perhaps he knew about group 1 alkaline Hydrides before Rossi – perhaps Rossi did not know how it catalysed the process – but the evidence suggests, Rossi used it first and it apparently works.

          • Obvious

            All the good old guys would know a bunch of old-fashioned and very effective ways to get H- if they were looking to do that.

            Nickel and PGEs do it one way, alkali metals do it another way, electricity does it another way, pressure variations do it another way, temperature does it another way…

            It could be like orchestrating a concert to apply as many ways as possible at once that don’t interfere with each other.

            (Rossi loves “The Concert”, which is in part about spontaneous harmony.)

          • Bob Greenyer

            They would know… but they lived without the work laid down by Piantelli, Focardi et all… and even if they did live at the same time – they would have had to have been exposed and interested in it enough to consider it.

            Rossi was the right person at the right time. Did he know what was going on? If he did – he did not say (to the best of my knowledge).

          • Obvious

            What I mean about the good old guys is Piantelli and his generation. Not the “ancient” discoverers from the turn of the 20th century.

            Now we are so removed from the original discoveries by time and technological leaps that the particular reasons for using things (or the reasons why things are not used) are often more of a mystery than they might be, unless it fits into your arena of specialized knowledge and expertise.

            Edit: I will note that Rossi’s work on TEG does come into this as well.
            Thermionic electric converters (TEC) are the most efficient heat-to-electric devices, and Rossi would almost certainly know this. Thermionic electric convertors with rarefied H- in the gap are among the most efficient of all.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Oh yes Obvious, Piantelli at every step in his description would get books from his very extensive library – and I mean extensive, showing time and time again that things that are critical to the process were fully described 40,50,60,70,80,90,100+ years ago… he would point to the book or to the page.

            He would regularly say “I don’t understand why people think they are discovering something here – this was done in 19xx” It is only with his incredible overview of much of the 20th century that you could have the insight to connect the dots. All of the previous 30 years to his schooling would have been from the start of the 20th century – so effectively – he did not miss a trick.

          • clovis ray

            paintelli haas nothing of use if he did he would show it, where is his proof of anything, BIG O

          • Bob Greenyer

            Piantelli and Focardi’s work underpins much of modern research into the New Fire, without its precedence Rossi would have nothing. Rossi sought members of the Piantelli/Focardi group to work with for this reason, he acquired Focardi and Piantellis work is the only work ever challenged by IH/Leonardo.

            As I say in my last video – Rossi’s most significant contribution – that of adding an Group 1, Alkaline Metal / Alkaline Metal Hydride – made the technology practical. Mills however has – through his own interpretation and pursuit of the same property of Nature has created a practical generator with only Part of Piantelli’s understanding.

            It is a beautiful blue ocean of opportunity.

          • clovis ray

            You and pantelli, if pantelli is so great why then don’t you use his patent to build a reactor, you said once that he had one running for years, well ,where is it and why haven’t you used it, reason is he don’t have anything, so please don’t use this loser’s name anymore, unless you can show where he has developed anything at all.

          • Bob Greenyer

            We did, the GS5.2 Recipe draws extensively from our learning from Piantelli – which we as ever have made open – and at the fundamental core level – that of treating the Nickel so that it contains NO oxygen and is pre-saturated with H2.

            This is clearly stated in the Letter sent out in advance of the announcement.

            Since Rossi has not said much precise about processing and activation – all we could really do is take a fuel mix similar to that in his patent – but the underlying understanding of how it works and what to do at what temperatures was developed by us with hard work and learning from Celani, Parkhomov – but principally Piantelli.

            I am not sure why I have deserved this tirade from you Clovis, I am doing this for my children generation, I have absolutely nothing to gain from talking about Piantelli. It is all in his patent and as I volunteer my time, I shall explain it and with the help of the rest of the team – continue to demonstrate it.

            If you have a better, clearer explanation of how it all works and fits together, I’d prefer it if you tell everyone, it’d save me a job.

          • clovis ray

            Hi, Bob G.
            You said. Since Rossi has not said much precise about processing and activation – all we could really do is take a fuel mix similar to that in his patent.
            If Piantelli, know how to produce lenr, what the problem, why would you need Dr. Rossi recipe.
            BOB, I love the MF/MP, They are a great bunch, and your work is very interesting and I have been with you guys from the very start, but just remember, this web sight is dedicated to the e-cat, and Dr. Rossi, not piantelli, it’s just that you are constantly putting Dr.R down, and trying to take what is rightfully his, and give it to Piantelli, well just so you know who i stand behind, it is Dr Rossi, he is the one with the goods not Piantelli, and you should know which side of the bread the butter is on, the only thing i have against Mr. Piantelli, it just he tried to steal Dr. Rossi patent, and got told where he could go by the patent office.

          • Bob Greenyer

            On the contrary, since the middle of 2014 we have been very much focused on mustering the majority of our resources in exploring Rossi’s claims and to date – we are the only truly independent (of Rossi/IH/Government/Private institution) body to do so – not only that, and without intention to, we have replicated for the first time in a way that fully corroborates many of the statements Rossi has made in the past.

            What we did – at the end of a very hard and long road, through application of knowledge, much of which came from Piantelli, is lend immense credibility to what Rossi has claimed, done and achieved in the past. We have taken a Lot of flack from many people in and out of the field – I would have thought people on this site more than any other would have supported the outcome of our data.

            Please can you clarify the very broad statement that seriously misrepresents my work when you say “you are constantly putting Dr. R down”. Drawing attention to prior art – especially prior art that Rossi would have had intimate knowledge of is just stating facts it is not personal – Rossi still put the pieces together, at the very least in a functional sense and that is why we are all here.

            If you think Piantelli has no relation to the E-Cat – ask if the affect is achievable without specifically Hydrogen and a transition/lanthanoid or Actinoid in play. If it was the case, then Piantelli has no place here.

            I think at heart the site is based on the theme of New Energy. There is room given to the ORBO, SunCell – oh, it would be seriously boring to list all the things that are not E-Cat. The ORBO has nothing at all to do with the E-Cat or even LENR – do you chastise all of the other Non-E-Cat threads as much as you appear to uniquely have a go at me?

            You may not like it, but Piantelli is at the foundation of the Ni+H and so the E-Cat and it is therefore totally consistent with your sole claim of the purpose of this site. The site, after all, is not called Rossi’s World or Rossi says.

            I will continue to volunteer my time to explain how it works to the best of my ability for those that are interested, please ignore my work if it upsets you.

          • clovis ray

            No one said this site was only about the e-cat, or rossi. where did that come from, energy innovation is what this site is about in my opinion.
            this site was started, in order to follow Dr. Rossi and his invention the e-cat . but it does not mean we don’t follow other inventors, but our main interest is the e-cat, we love the MF/MP because it is open, and we can follow the experiment, real time, and we have investigated lots of different devices here at e-cat world,
            Many comes with their theory’s and devices, and we give them a good look see, and give advise on how to make it better , some times, lol

          • Byron McDonald

            Bob,

            What you have also done is highlight the fact that Mills has another path. This is very critical for the diversity of LENR and, in my view, essential for the progress of the field in general to show that there is more than one approach. Until we have the underpinnings (physics) of LENR clearly delineated it is game on for any and all. Each iteration which leverages the signal will ultimately prove vital for commercialization.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Exactly Byron, we need more minds on this – and it is happening.

            I hope to add a video today that will help with understanding both signal and the correlation between Mills and the other branches of the technology.

          • Byron McDonald

            Looking forward to the next production!

          • Bob Greenyer

            Got a radio mic now!

          • Axil Axil

            VortexL post

            Axil Axil 1/28/12
            to vortex-l

            Mills recipe for Rossi’s secret sauce.

            Reference:

            http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=40&ved=0CHYQFjAJOB4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciteseerx.ist.psu.edu%2Fviewdoc%2Fdownload%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.29.695%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&ei=81IkT-zMDYr10gGU0LzsCA&usg=AFQjCNF5SQt3JVNF_ecKuWA6uwMNrthKgQ&sig2=155KUMofVJ27VAps7p8Pxw

            Formation of Hydrogen Plasma from an Incandescently Heated Hydrogen-Catalys Gas Mixture with an Anomalous Afterglow Duration

            Randell L. Mills

            Takeyoshi Onuma

            Ying Lu

            BlackLight Power, Inc.

            At the turn of this century, Mills performed a water shed experiment that defines how to produce abundant amounts of Rydberg atoms and the catalysts that best generate them.

            IMHO, in this experiment, Mills misunderstood how Rydberg atoms react and interpreted his results as produced by the fictitious hydrino atom; a misinformed concept of his own invention.

            This paper will provide a solid foundation for all those aspiring E-Cat replicators who want to produce a Ni-H reactor using a Rydberg catalyst.

            Of special note is a summary table of alkali based Rydberg atom catalysts. Mills also experimentally determines that the production of Rydberg atoms is best formed by using a two second power interruption delay.

            This allows for excited Rydberg atom condensation to form from the interaction between the alkali and hydrogen plasmas.

            Such a delay has been detected in the early Rossi power feed of his internal heater.

            Rossi also defines the temperature levels to be attained required by the internal heater to activate the “secret sauce” catalysts

            This is a description of a titanium dissociator and a catalyst coating comprising one of potassium, rubidium, cesium, and their carbonates and nitrates.

            This paper is a must read for all those who are serious in their desire to replication of the Rossi and the derivative Defkalion – Green Technologies Ni-H reactors.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Still not elemental and in same context as my deliberate disclosure – but pre-dates patent application – all good.

          • georgehants

            Bob, thanks for following the line of invalidating patents, makes me feel much better.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The next presentation I will make will look at how pretty much everything was in the original Rossi Focardi reactor to enable the claimed stimulation methods quoted in Piantellis patent. Key elements were in the lapsed Canon patent also.

            I will also point to modes of operation that were discussed in papers in 2002.

          • Bob Greenyer

            You can’t blame a patent examiner for not really knowing prior art when many of the New Fire researchers do not! Me included.

            2 years ago I applied to a UK grant agency to use a big data analysis system to go through all LENR-CANR papers and more – to create a public application people could use to instantly cross-correlate with. Had I got funding – this would make this process trivial.

          • Owen Geiger

            There is commercially available search software that will do this on your computer. Nothing special needed, although it wouldn’t be public.

            And I’m sure you know how to use google to search within one specific website.

          • Axil Axil

            Vortex-l post

            There are about 100 of these posts on vortex L regarding the subject matter you are referencing going back to 2011.
            =========

            Axil Axil 3/15/12

            The right fitting of the secret sauce.

            Table Key-> Alkaline Hydride/temperature of decomposition/boiling point/vapor point at 20 atmospheres.

            Potassium(K) hydride/Decomposes at ~400 °C/ 759 °C/470 °C

            Lithium(Li) hydride/Decomposes at 900–1000 °C/ 1342 °C/930 °C

            Cesium(Cs) hydride/Decomposes at ~170 °C/  671 °C/400 °C

            Rubidium(Rb) hydride/ Decomposes at 170°C/  688 °C/430 °C

            Sodium(Na) hydride/ Decomposes at 800°C/ 883 °C/630 °C

            Rossi has told us that his reactor runs at 400 °C. The table above lists the Mills type Alkali metal catalysts that Rossi might be using in his reactor we call his secret sauce.

            The table shows that at the stated 400 °C operating temperature of the Rossi reactor, lithium and sodium are not a good fit for the catalyst because they will condense out of the hydrogen envelope an be depositied on all the cold surfaces of the reactor vessel that are below the vapor point of these elements after they are initially vaporized by the internal heater. Being so randomly deposited solid hydride form throughout the insides of the reactor vessel, the internal heater will then be unable to access them for re-vaporization during the next heating cycle.

            Potassium is marginal with a vapor point at 20 atmospheres of pressure at 470 °C.

            The best fit is Cesium(Cs) and possibly Rubidium(Rb) at a vapor point at 20 atmospheres of pressure at 400 °C and 430 °C respectively.

            Cesium vapor will remain as vapor suspended in the hydrogen envelope at the 400 °C reactor operating temperature where the internal heater can access it again as vapor for repeated re-ionization.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Again – whilst it is great that these all mention other Group 1 metals – they mention them as Hydrides none of which operate below 170ºC by themselves – I specifically mention it in its elemental form and draw my inference from the melting point of the non-hydrided metal. This, to my knowledge pre-dated any priority on a Rossi patent, unless there is one yet to be published – since Rossi is not claiming the action of the group 1 element in the same way as Piantelli – it is not necessarily obvious that he would have come to the same conclusion – in addition, whilst a low temperature Group 1 element may be needed to start the reaction – Lithium may be the right element for promotion of high yield – and that may have held back his early thinking.

            Time will tell.

          • Axil Axil

            I have posted on the SmCo magnet dust here but it has not yet been approved. This catalyst is active to a maximum up to 80C at very low production energy. You will note it has nothing to do with H- but demonstrates the real fundamental cause of the LENR reaction, That cause is monopole flux tube interaction with protons and neutrons.

            It pains me to see you stuck on Piantelli’s theoretical fly paper. You’re such a noble and stout fellow.

            I will post it here for your convenience.

            https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2860-The-Dennis-Cravens-Golden-Ball-reaction/?postID=15001&highlight=SmCo#post15001

          • Bob Greenyer

            I suggested the use of SmCo to Celani at ICCF-18, mainly due to its properties.

            The Dennis Cravens golden balls would be no problem for Piantelli core theory – that which applies to his, Mills and Rossi’s embodiments ( and probably others that are claiming a different process ).

            Both Samarium (Lanthanide) and Cobalt (Transition metal) are active materials according to Piantelli.

            I understand that the balls contained a range of other materials and a proportion of H2 and D2 – some loaded. It is explainable (apparently) by D2 exchange – I don’t know to be honest.

            Without testing the exact formulation – which included much more than SmCo – I don’t think anyone can draw any conclusions. I suggest you ask Dennis what was in it – because any suggestion about knowing how it worked is seriously pointless otherwise.

            This experiment says nothing. There are no meaningful metrics that can be set against outcome.

            Don’t worry about me – I’ll be fine.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            For some time to come you talked to this page with Mr. Gordes. How fit vascha theory of the alkali metals in the work LENR reactor BRILOVN company?

          • Axil Axil

            Here is a real old vortex-L post that goes way back to 2011.
            ===========

            Axil Axil 5/15/11

            to vortex-l

            [quote] Part2:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD81qF-cIIc&NR=1

            Now, this is interesting:

            The guy (a patent attorney) asks why in the patent there is no mention of the catalyst, while he now states that there is a catalyst. The guy next points out that IF there is a catalyst and the catalyst is not disclosed into the patent than the patent will be null and void and cannot be enforced.

            (surprise surprise)

            Levi reply: I used the term catalyst as a material, but we are talking about the same “object”, let me call it an object and I know it exists because Rossi declares that it exists, even if I never cared to check what this object is made of.

            (He switched from the word catalyst (intended as a chemical material) to the word catalyst intended as an object that acts as a catalyst.)

            The next guy states that he is puzzled by the issue that Prof. Levi believes Rossi without caring to know what the catalyst is.

            Prof Levi declares that he does not care because he saw the machine working, so he really does not care about what the catalyst is or is made of.[/quote]

            I humbly ask the experts in patent law that frequent this thread to share their judgment about the intellectual property protection afforded a “method” of catalytic activity that is provided as opposed to the catalyst as a “material”.

            More specifically, “my current theory of catalytic spill over activity” in operation as the active agent in the Rossi reactor is the production of negative hydrogen clustered ions using electrical and/or activation of graphite possibly coated with a low work function electron emitter and/or hydride host such as cesium or lithium.

            Is such a mechanism protected as intellectually protected property without specific disclosure of its existence and explanation of its operation?

          • Obvious

            Oh man, the auto translate for that video… LOL. Did she really say the F-word and mention 72 virgins?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thank you Axil, whilst the carbon is not necessary and the comment does not specifically mention very low temperature operation, this does pre-date the patent disclosure from Rossi of Lithium – which is good, It does not pre-date the 22 March 2010 Rossi/Focardi paper, that mentions Lithium – but in a different context.

            Can the comment be sufficient to act as prior disclosure?

          • Axil Axil

            By the way Defkalion told me that when they tried my suggested secret sauce, it worked for them.

    • Mats002

      Thanks for your response, agree ‘Rossi says’ is not enough. What is your assessment of where NiH energy tech stands today?

    • Brokeeper

      And perhaps from anyone with an underlying ideological plan or program opposing another.

    • Stephen

      Robert it seems things are moving fast in many areas of the LENR field at the moment. May I ask how things are going at Brillouin? Or are you also restricted in what you can say at this time? A lot seemed to happen with your technology and company as well last year. Can you say if we can expect new announcements following last years developments in the near future this year?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Dear Robert, Rossi, in the interview with Ruby Carat – self admits that he gets ahead of himself on where a thing can be commercially. You are bang on there!

      For me, I have a cold room in my house that I have to have a 500W electric heater in to make it useable even though there is a radiator in there. If I had a reactor that produces 750W output (COP 1.5) I would save 1 days electricity in 3 – I would be a happy bunny.

      • bachcole

        But as it is, you are in deep (cold) yoghurt. (:->)

        • Bob Greenyer

          mmm yoghurt…

    • Rod

      @Robert E. Godes, Since you are now posting on this forum, and since your company is a direct competitor to Rossi’s Leonardo Corp., I do not think it is fair to make a comment ‘…IE people should learn to ignore statements put out directly by Rossi’ without elaborating further. Are there specific statements from Rossi that you question? Do you have first hand knowledge as to why IH released their statement regarding LENR industry developments? And yes, while you are at it, please kindly update the community on where your company is at delivering an LENR product to market.

    • bachcole

      Bob, you do your IE. I’ll do my IE.

      People should ignore any statements about IH products put out by anyone other than IH.

      I can read as well as you, Bob, but people might get the idea that you might possibly have a bias given the fact that you are Rossi’s only competitor. Heck, for all we know you are way ahead of Rossi. But I never fully trust anyone who is trying to sell me something. (:->) Nothing personal.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Hilarious and – unless we are all fools suffering gladly – the most important discussion on the planet right now.

  • Frank Acland

    Maybe we are looking at an April delivery of the report. Perhaps later . . .

    Andrea Rossi

    March 12, 2016 at 8:05 PM

    Achilles:

    Obviously the report will be delivered and all this mumbojumbo tango of the obscure forces or suppositions of any kind has no merit at all.
    The time normally necessary for the formulation of a report based upon tens of millions of data collected in one year of test is a couple of months and the test has been completed on the 17th of February. Every person with a minimum kowledge of the matter understands that if the ERV takes a couple of months to complete his work, it is totally normal.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.