Leonardo Corp. Press Release: "Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified – Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC" (ERV is Fabio Penon)

The following Press release has been published by Leonardo Corp. Source here: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cold-fusion-lenr-verified–inventor-sues-industrial-heat-llc-300247317.html

MIAMI, April 6, 2016 /PRNewswire/ — Leonardo Corporation announced today that on March 29, 2016, Leonardo Corporation received independent third party validation of the overwhelmingly positive results of a nearly yearlong test of Leonardo’s 1MW Energy Catalyzer (“E-Cat”). According to the inventor, Andrea Rossi, the E-Cat generates a low energy nuclear reaction (“LENR”) which produces excess heat energy at a cost substantially below more traditional energy sources. According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the same period. According to Andrea Rossi, Leonardo Corporation considers the results of the third party test to be “an overwhelming success” and that “the world is one step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean and efficient energy source.”

The independent third party validation test was performed by Dr. Ing. Fabio Penon, a Ph.D. in Nuclear Engineering, at the behest of Leonardo Corporation and one of its licensees, Industrial Heat, LLC. as both desired independent third party verification of the sustainability of the energy production of the E-Cat over a prolonged period. “The results of Dr. Penon’s test was consistent with the measurements taken by the representatives of Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat respectively during the course of the test” said inventor Andrea Rossi.

“Leonardo Corporation is working diligently with its licensees, corporate partners and material suppliers to implement a production and distribution plan consistent with the expected demand for the E-Cat units when they are made commercially available” stated Rossi.

Notwithstanding, Licensee Industrial Heat continued involvement in the development and manufacturing of the E-Cat is uncertain at this time. As stated in a lawsuit filed by The Silver Law Group, P.A. on behalf of Leonardo Corporation on April 5, 2016, Leonardo Corporation believes that Industrial Heat breached the terms of its license agreement and misappropriated Leonardo Corporation’s intellectual property relating to the E-Cat. Additional information is available regarding the E-Cat at www.ecat.com. The lawsuit can be viewed at www.pacer.gov, Case No. 16-CV-21199-JLK, U.S. District Court, Southern District of Florida. Leonardo Corporation does not anticipate that there will be any delay in the commercial release of the E-Cat technology as a result of the lawsuit.

Contact: Leonardo’s attorney John Annesser, Esq. JWA@silverlawgroup.com, 305-664-3955

SOURCE The Silver Law Group, P.A.
Related Links

http://www.silverlawgroup.com

  • Curbina

    So, they decided to stick to the COP 6 figure, and this will be probably all what we will know about the ERV report for a good while. I’m happy, but this confirms that LENR is already in slow release mode controlled by bigger interests.

  • Curbina

    So, they decided to stick to the COP 6 figure, and this will be probably all what we will know about the ERV report for a good while. I’m happy, but this confirms that LENR is already in slow release mode controlled by bigger interests.

  • Curbina

    Yikes!!!!, I skipped over the lawsuit against IH, Oh my frigging god, this is something I did not see coming. Exactly what we did not need. Why o why!!!???

  • Curbina

    Yikes!!!!, I skipped over the lawsuit against IH, Oh my frigging god, this is something I did not see coming. Exactly what we did not need. Why o why!!!???

  • Fyodor

    This is a strange thing combination of things to put into a press release. Anyone want to pull the complaint from pacer?

    • deleo77

      It’s bad. There is no other way to read this one. I feel like Industrial Heat has bailed on Rossi, and their statement a couple weeks ago now makes a lot more sense.

      • Curbina

        Indeed. Putting all this together, the only positive thing is that we know that the COP went up to 50, but now we know IH and Rossi are divorced, and thus, all the hopes for an increased acceptance are now shattered.

        • Stephen Taylor

          We don’t know how long the cop was over 50 or how long it was over 6. Minutes? Hours? Days? No data is bad news. Lawsuit is worse news.

        • LuFong

          What does that mean, 50? We know from Rossi that the 1MW plant was at times in SSM mode which is a COP of infinity. This doesn’t tell us much. Maybe Rossi doesn’t want to disclose the COP because he wants to sell the heat and if the customer knows how efficient his machine is they will try to negotiate the price down. All conjecture of course and it’s assuming Rossi has something.

          • There’s always a little bit of juice going in for control hardware.

          • LuFong

            1/50 * 1MW = 20Kw of juice?

          • LuFong

            1MW / 50 = 20kW of juice?

          • They’d have to provide the data to us before we can make any real sense of their COP claims. I was just pointing out in principle that the instantaneous COP is never really infinite.

  • Fyodor

    This is a strange thing combination of things to put into a press release. Anyone want to pull the complaint from pacer?

    • deleo77

      It’s bad. There is no other way to read this one. I feel like Industrial Heat has bailed on Rossi, and their statement a couple weeks ago now makes a lot more sense.

      • Curbina

        Indeed. Putting all this together, the only positive thing is that we know that the COP went up to 50, but now we know IH and Rossi are divorced, and thus, all the hopes for an increased acceptance are now shattered.

        • Stephen Taylor

          We don’t know how long the cop was over 50 or how long it was over 6. Minutes? Hours? Days? No data is bad news. Lawsuit is worse news.

  • Barbierir

    I wish this was april 1

  • Barbierir

    I wish this was april 1

  • Rheulan

    Well, I´ll eat crow. Seems Krivit was right about the split between Rossi and IH.

  • kevinee

    Awfully coincidental….

    • bachcole

      What coincidental, or do we have to read your mind?

      • kevinee

        That the results would be published at the same time as the lawsuit.

  • Curbina

    On the other hand, the name of Fabio Penon is already in the LENR sphere for a good while, so pseudoskeptics will simply have a good laugh at this news release. Oh My. I think the whole ERV chapter ended in a very anticlimactic way.

    • Barbierir

      Only a product will do, I hope the press release is right that this will not delay commercialization

      • bachcole

        Probably in your dreams.

  • deleo77

    Oh wow, Penon cannot be taken seriously. This whole thing could be over on this news.

    • bachcole

      Why can’t Penon be taken seriously?

  • deleo77

    Oh wow, Penon cannot be taken seriously. This whole thing could be over on this news.

    • bachcole

      Why can’t Penon be taken seriously?

      • yeah, what’s the story on Penon again. Why is he not credible?

  • Алексей Ефимов

    Почуяли бабки после теста и перегрызлись между собой.

  • Hank Mills

    We really know very little at this point. Could someone look up the case file and publish it so we can figure out what accusations against IH are being made? Right now, we don’t really know anything except that the test was a success.

    • Curbina

      Hank, I’d love to share your optimism, but an intellectual property lawsuit from Leonardo Corporation to IH LLC is a very unwanted situation at this stage.

      • MasterBlaster7

        I think it will get worked out. There is too much at stake for both sides.

  • EEStorFanFibb

    It will be very interesting to see exactly what the claims in the lawsuit are. I don’t think at this point we can say the license deal between Leonardo and IH is for sure going down the tubes. Could be just a hiccup on the road to a fruitful partnership. OTOH maybe IH was about to claim the ERV report was not in their eyes “overwhelmingly positive” and Rossi is trying to get out in front of a messy divorce.

    • MasterBlaster7

      I think the former

  • It will be very interesting to see exactly what the claims in the lawsuit are. I don’t think at this point we can say the license deal between Leonardo and IH is for sure going down the tubes. Could be just a hiccup on the road to a fruitful partnership. OTOH maybe IH was about to claim the ERV report was not in their eyes “overwhelmingly positive” and Rossi is trying to get out in front of a messy divorce.

    • MasterBlaster7

      I think the former

  • EEStorFanFibb

    “Silver Law Group is a team of lawyers, accountants and support
    staff dedicated to recovering investor losses through securities
    arbitration and litigation.

    Our lawyers have recovered millions of dollars from every major wall
    street and have been actively involved representing victims in many of
    the largest Ponzi schemes in the country.

    As investor advocates, our lawyers are frequent speakers at
    securities and investment fraud conferences. Our managing partner,
    Scott Silver, is the current co-chairman of the Securities and Financial
    Fraud group of the American Association of Justice. We represent
    investors on a contingency fee basis and are only paid if we
    successfully recover money for you.”

    http://silverlaw.com/

  • “Silver Law Group is a team of lawyers, accountants and support
    staff dedicated to recovering investor losses through securities
    arbitration and litigation.

    Our lawyers have recovered millions of dollars from every major wall
    street and have been actively involved representing victims in many of
    the largest Ponzi schemes in the country.

    As investor advocates, our lawyers are frequent speakers at
    securities and investment fraud conferences. Our managing partner,
    Scott Silver, is the current co-chairman of the Securities and Financial
    Fraud group of the American Association of Justice. We represent
    investors on a contingency fee basis and are only paid if we
    successfully recover money for you.”

    http://silverlaw.com/

    • Mike

      I think you have the wrong website – if you follow the link you get a small boutique law firm in Florida with a very different area of expertise…http://www.silverlawgroup.com

  • bachcole

    Oh, s**t!!! This is depressing. Why can’t we all just get along. I am sufficiently depressed that I don’t believe the following sentence:

    “Leonardo Corporation does not anticipate that there will be any delay in
    the commercial release of the E-Cat technology as a result of the
    lawsuit.”

  • bachcole

    Oh, s**t!!! This is depressing. Why can’t we all just get along. I am sufficiently depressed that I don’t believe the following sentence:

    “Leonardo Corporation does not anticipate that there will be any delay in the commercial release of the E-Cat technology as a result of the lawsuit.”

    It sure would be nice to have a graph of the connections between these entities.

    A COP of between 6 and 50. That is very encouraging, but not encouraging enough to recover from the interpersonal failure.

  • Obvious

    This is not the news release I was expecting.

  • I’m trying to digest this info calmly but I keep spewing.

    Industrial Heat standing by Rossi was a major factor in his recent credibility. Now he’s out on his own again.

    And what was IH thinking choosing Penon as the ERV? Maybe that’s all that Rossi would agree to? That’s another huge ding to credibility.

    We’re a long way from clarity here so I will not rush to judgment but 5 thumbs down for all involved. Way to f everything up.

    • Guest

      IH didn’t choose Penon, hence the lawsuit.

    • Hank Mills

      Songsheng and Parkhomov’s repeated successful runs producing massive excess heat indicate to me that there is no reason to believe the 350 day test would be anything other than a success. If a wide array of systems utilizing different specifications of fuel and reactor bodies can generate excess heat, I’m sure the inventor of the technology can get his own reactors to work.

      • All replications to date are, for me, underwhelming. Awaiting MFMP or a major university to claim replication and publish a repeatable process.

        MFMP is close. Maybe there’s good news from there or SKINR just over the horizon.

      • Looking on the bright side, it’s not typical behavior to issue press releases and sue for IP theft (?) if you’re conducting a scam. Too much sunlight.

        • psi2u2

          O geeze.

          I don’t know whether to cheer for the report or cry for the lawsuit.

        • psi2u2

          Yes, well said.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          Rossi is a dark ninja master of the art of scam. He is always three steps ahead of everyone.

          • He’s one of the most accomplished men in history.

            We just aren’t sure Jedi or Sith yet.

          • Ged

            I’d like to take a moment to give thanks for those folks spending their money to look at the filing and then reporting back to us about it.

          • Wishful Thinking Energy

            There is a TON of info there. I’m talking to Frank about posting it for all to see. I just have to verify I can do that without lawyers coming after me.

          • e-dog

            Cheers Brian good idea

          • LilyLover

            Keep it “password” protected for “limited circulation amongst friends” and do not tell anyone what the “password123” is, and you are legally off the hook.

          • Eyedoc

            Yes listen to Lily, and thanks WTE

          • Axil Axil

            I have a feeling that Mr. Fulvio Fabiani has contributed to the development of the E-Cat in a big way and now that he is an IH employee, his status as a E-Cat developer gives IH a reason to claim a part of Rossi’s IP. Rossi has always said that his team is a major part of E-Cat development. Maybe, that team, the members of the team and the company that these people work for should get a part of that IP.

          • Obvious

            If he couldn’t have done it without his team (he may regret saying such things) then they may rightly be co-inventors.
            I would keep an eye on those comments on JoNP.

          • SG

            Yes, IH are well within their rights to hire their own engineers and make improvements to the tech. We don’t know whether the license agreement obligates IH to assign-back to Leonardo any improvements made. Mr. Rossi’s granted patents might be “blocking patents,” but maybe not. Patents can be designed-around. IH may come up with better ways of doing things. With the relationship between IH and Leonardo clearly on the rocks, we might end up with two well-funded entities racing and competing to bring LENR to the masses.

          • US_Citizen71
          • Brent Buckner

            Per the last sentence of 13.4, I don’t think IH has any obligation to assign to Leonardo any improvements made by IH (per the preamble, IH is the “Company”).

          • SG

            Agreed. IH owns its own improvements as expressly set forth in the written agreement. This explains why IH is filing their own patents.

            All of Mr. Rossi’s (Leonardo’s) improvements (e.g., e-CatX) also fall within the scope of the original license.

            IH will have some strong counterclaims.

    • Remember LEN, the company where it was set up would know if they saved $$$ on an energy bill.

      • True. They remain strangely silent and anonymous.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Mills is the one with the inside track now.

  • Obvious

    This is not the news release I was expecting.

  • I’m trying to digest this info calmly but I keep spewing.

    Industrial Heat standing by Rossi was a major factor in his recent credibility. Now he’s out on his own again.

    And what was IH thinking choosing Penon as the ERV? Maybe that’s all that Rossi would agree to? That’s another huge ding to credibility.

    We’re a long way from clarity here so I will not rush to judgment but 5 thumbs down for all involved. Way to f everything up.

    • Guest

      IH likely didn’t choose Penon, hence the situation resulting in a lawsuit.

    • Hank Mills

      Songsheng and Parkhomov’s repeated successful runs producing massive excess heat indicate to me that there is no reason to believe the 350 day test would be anything other than a success. If a wide array of systems utilizing different specifications of fuel and reactor bodies can generate excess heat, I’m sure the inventor of the technology can get his own reactors to work.

      • All replications to date are, for me, underwhelming. Awaiting MFMP or a major university to claim replication and publish a repeatable process.

        MFMP is close. Maybe there’s good news from there or SKINR just over the horizon.

    • Remember LEN, the company where it was set up would know if they saved $$$ on an energy bill.

      • True. They remain strangely silent and anonymous.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Mills is the one with the inside track now.

  • Obvious

    Do we expect the report soon? Or is IH never going to sign off on it?

    • Curbina

      I guess this is all what we will be let know for the time being, NDAs involved and the current sue will not make anything easier to know the data.

    • deleo77

      I would not be surprised at all at this point to see a counter suit from IH against Leonardo. But the claims that IH makes against Leonardo could create exposure to their own investors, along the lines of what did IH know and when did they know it. The last thing that IH and Woodford want at this point is a class-action suit from their investors.

      • Obvious

        I guess we have two things to wait for now:
        A report, and what exactly IH allegedly misappropriated.

      • Ged

        I agree, there was no evidence of them growing apart previously. And, what’s more, all the speculation about that never remotely conceived or anticipated this twist.

  • what a mess

    • Curbina

      I think this is short of a catasthropic development in terms of Rossi’s credibility. I hope Leonardo Corporation is able to live on its own.

      • kdk

        I don’t think they’d write up a legal document claiming that the ERV noted COP 60 on average without the facts to back it up.

  • Obvious

    Do we expect the report soon? Or is IH never going to sign off on it?

    • Curbina

      I guess this is all what we will be let know for the time being, NDAs involved and the current sue will not make anything easier to know the data.

    • deleo77

      I would not be surprised at all at this point to see a counter suit from IH against Leonardo. But the claims that IH makes against Leonardo could create exposure to their own investors, along the lines of what did IH know and when did they know it. The last thing that IH and Woodford want at this point is a class-action suit from their investors.

      • Obvious

        I guess we have two things to wait for now:
        A report, and what exactly IH allegedly misappropriated.

  • “”The results of Dr. Penon’s test was consistent with the measurements taken by the representatives of Leonardo Corporation AND INDUSTRIAL HEAT respectively during the course of the test” said inventor Andrea Rossi.”

    CAPS are my emphasis.

    So maybe IH also believes the results are “overwhelmingly positive”, not just Rossi.

    • Guest

      If they did, it is very unlikely there would be a lawsuit right now.

      Again, this is another case where you should not take anything someone else says about IH as fact until confirmed by IH.

      • I don’t buy that. Rossi is suing IH. IH isn’t suing Rossi…. at least not yet.

  • bachcole

    What coincidental, or do we have to read your mind?

  • Hank Mills

    I urge everyone to avoid coming to any conclusions until we’ve read the actual case file. There could be a plethora of information contained if someone can gain access and share it here for all of us to read.

    • Curbina

      It’s behind a paywall, I already tried and I have not had a Credit Card since 2006 when I was scammed, so no way to pay the fee.

      • Hank Mills

        If anyone would be willing to pay for the report, I’m sure the entire community would be grateful.

    • psi2u2

      Good idea.

  • Hank Mills

    I urge everyone to avoid coming to any conclusions until we’ve read the actual case file. There could be a plethora of information contained if someone can gain access and share it here for all of us to read.

    • Curbina

      It’s behind a paywall, I already tried and I have not had a Credit Card since 2006 when I was scammed, so no way to pay the fee.

      • Hank Mills

        If anyone would be willing to pay for the report, I’m sure the entire community would be grateful.

    • psi2u2

      Good idea.

  • Obvious

    Interesting…

    “The results of Dr. Penon’s test was consistent with the measurements
    taken by the representatives of Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat
    respectively during the course of the test”

  • Obvious

    Interesting…

    “The results of Dr. Penon’s test was consistent with the measurements
    taken by the representatives of Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat
    respectively during the course of the test”

  • Oystein Lande

    Link to the Court filing:

    “Rossi et al v. Darden et al”

    https://www.flsd.uscourts.gov/?page_id=7606

    • Curbina

      Rossi et al v. Darden et al, so this is personal… Ugh….

      • Uhg… is right Curbina. Bad karma.

        • artefact

          Maybe because of Brillouin?

  • LuFong

    “misappropriated Leonardo Corporation’s intellectual property?” Did IH sell it? Did IH give it to another competitor? I know in some industries companies take out patents on their competitor’s patents so their competitor cannot improve upon it. Or is this just smoke from Rossi to hide other issues?

    It’s been clear that IH and Rossi have grown apart for a while now and that the relationship is no longer “harmonious.”

    • US_Citizen71

      Could be they gave the secret sauce to another company in their portfolio.

      • EEStorFanFibb

        could be, but that would be so dumb and unnecessary.

      • LuFong

        I hope the Chinese have it now, he he he he… (Just kidding). It’s possible they shared some aspect of it. Rossi is so paranoid.

        • Obvious

          Although a wild guess, I think you are essentially correct.

          • LuFong

            Ditto…

  • Oystein Lande

    Link to the Court filing:

    “Rossi et al v. Darden et al”

    https://www.flsd.uscourts.gov/?page_id=7606

    • Curbina

      Rossi et al v. Darden et al, so this is personal… Ugh….

      • Uhg… is right Curbina. Bad karma.

        • artefact

          Maybe because of Brillouin?

    • Rheulan

      Jesus! The litigation also involves Rossi vs Darden, personally!

  • akupaku

    Hmm, this is a real anticlimax and pretty disappointing. Even though I was already expecting something not completely satisfactory because it seemed to me that there was something wrong with the relationship between Industrial Heat and Rossi. That much seemed pretty clear from the complete silence and no mention of each other on both sides and seemingly diverging paths.

    Worst case result could be that the whole E-Cat revolution is buried for years into a legal struggle and the lawyers rip both companies of all their money.

    The skeptics will be laughing their asses off on this one. 🙁

    • Ged

      This really is mindboggling. Sure, it would be easy enough to accept if IH was trying to split from Rossi, but instead it’s Rossi who’s suing them. I guess IH didn’t want to let something go, as we’ve seen Leonardo corp becoming increasingly independent, and Rossi is having none of it. But it’s crazy. IH has been his strongest card in play since they came onto the scene. It’s like shooting himself in the foot, unless they really did try to take his tech and run, but that is hard to believe.

      • Guest

        This is most likely a situation where Rossi anticipated a lawsuit from IH and filed first so as to have the advantaged position both in terms of court proceedings (for example, which district the case will be heard in), as well as from a PR perspective (this is obviously a disaster, but would probably be even worse for him if IH was the one initiating a lawsuit… counter suit likely to follow).

        Agree though, it’s not a good look for AR, and combined with the revelation that the ERV is Rossi’s old compatriot Fabio Penon (as predicted), it essentially means any comments about the success of the test can most likely be dismissed entirely or at least taken with a huge grain of salt until confirmed elsewhere.

  • Private Citizen

    Discussion of report with an unverified link to the report:
    http://www.slideshare.net/brslides/rossi-hotcat-penon-report-simulation

    • Barbierir

      no, I think this is the previous test made by Penon a couple of years ago

    • Curbina

      This is from 2013.

  • Private Citizen

    Discussion of report with an unverified link to the report:
    http://www.slideshare.net/brslides/rossi-hotcat-penon-report-simulation

    • Barbierir

      no, I think this is the previous test made by Penon a couple of years ago

    • Curbina

      This is from 2013.

    • I copied down the url and downloaded the document. It’s old, from October 9th 2012

  • Hhiram

    It’s impossible to know what’s happened at this point. But one possibility is that IH likes what they are seeing, and is trying to get control of the E-Cat intellectual property away from Leonardo so that it can more greatly benefit.

    It is not uncommon for firms in partnerships to fight over IP when there is a lot at stake, so I am not terribly concerned about this.

    What I am VERY concerned about is that the ERV report has no credibility. Dr. Fabon is not a credible external reviewer, and for OUR purposes (i.e. for establishing the reality of LENR in the eyes of the whole world) the entire year long test has been useless – no different than the Lugano test and report.

    Now, it may be that IH is perfectly satisfied with the results from Fabon. After all, they agreed to the arrangement from the start of the test. But nobody else in the world will be satisfied. The news will laugh at this as another chapter in the fraudlent history of Rossi and bogus “cold fusion pseudoscience”.

    It is a great shame that could easily have been avoided by hiring a REAL independent evaluation firm to do the review. It is of course possible that no such firm was hired precisely because it IS fraud, but like most readers here I personally think that is not the case. I think this is just another example of business ineptitude by Rossi. It is a great shame.

    Sadly, all of this together means that Rossi and Leonardo’s credibility is only going to go down. And that means we now have years more waiting to do, unless Rossi simply starts making a working product. We can only hope that we will see such products, and they will actually work and not be surrounded by disaster and errors (like the ill-fated Orbo from Steorn).

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Didn’t Rossi say to Mats Lewan that the ERV worked for some firm?

  • bachcole

    This is not so much of a divorce as a “I like what you got, babe, and I’m going to take it without your permission”. This does not mean that I.H. thinks that the E-Cat is unreal. It means that it looked so good that I.H. purloined it, or stole part of it. This is an affirmation of the E-Cat, not a negation. But the social relations are all important, so this is still a disaster.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Right, they liked what they saw. We must not forget IH and all their affiliates have not created anything. They are simply investors, fundamentally interested in making money. Rossi is so far ahead in LENR research, that IH has formed a strategy to invest in Rossi competitors, possibly trying to create their own IP, making themselves the “white knight” of this new energy source, thereby controlling as much of this new huge market as possible. IH has created nothing, they are an investment firm.

      • cashmemorz

        According to this view IH is so sure of the tech that it will make them money but not necessarily through Leonardo Corp. IH has investments in other LENR inventors.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          I don’t see any patents from IH from “other” LENR competitors except those created by Rossi

    • Teemu Soilamo

      While I agree on the surface, let’s wait for IH’s official response to verify the information.

  • Obvious

    [sarcasm] Obviously we should not believe this, since it did not come from IH…..

  • Obvious

    [sarcasm] Obviously we should not believe this, since it did not come from IH…..

  • Looking on the bright side, it’s not typical behavior to issue press releases and sue for IP theft (?) if you’re conducting a scam. Too much sunlight.

    • psi2u2

      Yes, well said.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Rossi is a dark ninja master of the art of scam. He is always three steps ahead of everyone.

      • He’s one of the most accomplished men in history.

        We just aren’t sure Jedi or Sith yet.

  • Obvious

    I have seen examples of rights being assigned to a third party by a second party which were required by contract, but did not have, the approval or a first right of refusal of the original assignor.

  • Obvious

    I have seen examples of rights being assigned to a third party by a second party which were required by contract, but did not have, the approval or a first right of refusal of the original assignor.

  • Curbina

    The Rossi et al Vs Darden et al format of the law suit makes me think that Darden attempted to patent something on his own. Just an opinion.

    • Ged

      Could this be due to Darden’s business plans with the Chinese? There’s going to be a lot of work trying to clear the fog on this to find out what’s really going on.

      • artefact

        The filing is from April 5 2016.
        The Chinese thing is known since 2013.

  • Oystein Lande
    • Curbina

      Thanks, but if one clicks in any pdf logo it takes you to a trial activation, can you download the pdfs and then put in some web archive? Sorry for the request.

    • Ged

      Holy smokes, what a twist. IH was never backing away from Rossi, Rossi was the one suing IH. What a mad world this is turning into.

      • artefact

        (sarcasm) Just to make the profit from the movie rights bigger

        • Ged

          Ironically enough.

    • EEStorFanFibb

      parties tab shows…

      Defendant
      Cherokee Investment Partners, LLC
      a Delaware limited liabililty company 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
      Raleigh, NC 27601

      Defendant
      Thomas Darden
      individually 111 East Hargett St Ste 300

      Raleigh, NC 27601
      Defendant
      IPH International B.V.

      Defendant
      Industrial Heat, LLC
      a Delaware limited liabililty company 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
      Raleigh, NC 27601

      Defendant
      John T. Vaughn
      individually 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
      Raleigh, NC 27601

      Plaintiff
      Leonardo Corporation
      a Florida corporation 1331 Lincoln Rd Apt 106
      Miami Beach, FL 33139

      Plaintiff
      Andrea Rossi
      individually 1331 Lincoln Rd Apt 601
      Miami Beach, FL 33139

      Represented By
      John William Annesser, II
      The Silver Law Group, P.A.

      contact info
      Patricia Merle Silver
      Silver Law Group PA

    • John Littlemist

      IPH Int’l mentioned there. Was it them who acquired the Miley patents?

  • Curbina

    The Rossi et al Vs Darden et al format of the law suit makes me think that Darden attempted to patent something on his own. Just an opinion.

    • Ged

      Could this be due to Darden’s business plans with the Chinese? There’s going to be a lot of work trying to clear the fog on this to find out what’s really going on.

      • artefact

        The filing is from April 5 2016.
        The Chinese thing is known since 2013.

  • Oystein Lande
    • Curbina

      Thanks, but if one clicks in any pdf logo it takes you to a trial activation, can you download the pdfs and then put in some web archive? Sorry for the request.

    • Ged

      Holy smokes, what a twist. IH was never backing away from Rossi, Rossi was the one suing IH. What a mad world this is turning into.

      • artefact

        (sarcasm) Just to make the profit from the movie rights bigger

        • Ged

          Ironically enough.

    • parties tab shows…

      Defendant
      Cherokee Investment Partners, LLC
      a Delaware limited liabililty company 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
      Raleigh, NC 27601

      Defendant
      Thomas Darden
      individually 111 East Hargett St Ste 300

      Raleigh, NC 27601
      Defendant
      IPH International B.V.

      Defendant
      Industrial Heat, LLC
      a Delaware limited liabililty company 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
      Raleigh, NC 27601

      Defendant
      John T. Vaughn
      individually 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
      Raleigh, NC 27601

      Plaintiff
      Leonardo Corporation
      a Florida corporation 1331 Lincoln Rd Apt 106
      Miami Beach, FL 33139

      Plaintiff
      Andrea Rossi
      individually 1331 Lincoln Rd Apt 601
      Miami Beach, FL 33139

      Represented By
      John William Annesser, II
      The Silver Law Group, P.A.

      contact info
      Patricia Merle Silver
      Silver Law Group PA

    • I hope we can see those PDFs listed there. anyone want to pay up and grab them for the group?

    • John Littlemist

      IPH Int’l mentioned there. Was it them who acquired the Miley patents?

  • EEStorFanFibb

    Is Rossi saying anything about this on the JoNP?

    • Frank Acland

      I have contacted Rossi, he informed the press release was legitimate, but all questions about this must be directed to the attorney John Annesser named in the press release.

      • EEStorFanFibb

        Thanks. to be expected.

      • LuFong

        I would not be surprised if we have a new F8 for just about everything related to the test–“All questions about this must be directed to the attorney John Annesser named in the press release.”

  • Is Rossi saying anything about this on the JoNP?

    • Frank Acland

      I have contacted Rossi, he informed the press release was legitimate, but all questions about this must be directed to the attorney John Annesser named in the press release.

  • Oystein Lande

    Defendant
    Cherokee Investment Partners, LLC
    a Delaware limited liabililty company 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
    Raleigh, NC 27601
    Defendant
    Thomas Darden
    individually 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
    Raleigh, NC 27601
    Defendant
    IPH International B.V.
    Defendant
    Industrial Heat, LLC
    a Delaware limited liabililty company 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
    Raleigh, NC 27601
    Defendant
    John T. Vaughn
    individually 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
    Raleigh, NC 27601
    Plaintiff
    Leonardo Corporation
    a Florida corporation 1331 Lincoln Rd Apt 106
    Miami Beach, FL 33139
    Represented By
    Patricia Merle Silver
    Silver Law Group PA
    contact info
    John William Annesser, II
    The Silver Law Group, P.A.
    contact info
    Plaintiff
    Andrea Rossi
    individually 1331 Lincoln Rd Apt 601
    Miami Beach, FL 33139
    Represented By
    Patricia Merle Silver
    Silver Law Group PA
    contact info
    John William Annesser, II
    The Silver Law Group, P.A.

    • Ged

      That would be very bad news for Rossi. It’s crazy he’s attacking his
      best ally like this, unless there really is some dang good reason this is basically suicide for him.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    As I predicted the fight is on.

    • EEStorFanFibb

      I guess you were right. sadly.

  • Oystein Lande

    Defendant
    Cherokee Investment Partners, LLC
    a Delaware limited liabililty company 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
    Raleigh, NC 27601

    Defendant
    Thomas Darden
    individually 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
    Raleigh, NC 27601

    Defendant
    IPH International B.V.

    Defendant
    Industrial Heat, LLC
    a Delaware limited liabililty company 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
    Raleigh, NC 27601

    Defendant
    John T. Vaughn
    individually 111 East Hargett St Ste 300
    Raleigh, NC 27601

    Plaintiff
    Leonardo Corporation
    a Florida corporation 1331 Lincoln Rd Apt 106
    Miami Beach, FL 33139

    Represented By
    Patricia Merle Silver
    Silver Law Group PA

    Plaintiff
    Andrea Rossi
    individually 1331 Lincoln Rd Apt 601
    Miami Beach, FL 33139

    Represented By
    Patricia Merle Silver
    Silver Law Group PA

    • Ged

      That would be very bad news for Rossi. It’s crazy he’s attacking his
      best ally like this, unless there really is some dang good reason this is basically suicide for him.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    As I predicted the fight is on.

  • psi2u2

    O geeze.

    I don’t know whether to cheer for the report or cry for the lawsuit.

  • well, let’s see if IH counter sues or makes any kind of statement in reaction to this. I hope they do.

  • Obvious

    Oh well. I’m still going to purchase extra insulation for the house.

  • Obvious

    Oh well. I’m still going to purchase extra insulation for the house.

    • Antimondialiste

      and me buying solar panels 🙂

  • Hhiram

    One additional thought:

    It is likely that Rossi and IH are fighting about patents/IP around the E-CatX (quark, etc.).

    So far, we only know that Rossi has struggled to obtain a patent for the original E-Cat, and that the original E-Cat is what was being tested in the year long test in partnership with IH.

    But Rossi (and also Fabiani) has claimed that the E-CatX far, FAR outperforms the original E-Cat. Of course IH should be very unhappy if they suddenly find they have invested in a technology that is already obsolete. So, they should naturally try to claim that any agreement they have about E-Cat also applies to the E-CatX.

    Notice that the lawsuit is Rossi as plaintiff suing IH as defendent. This is not IH unhappy with Rossi, this is Rossi unhappy with IH.

    So, my guess is that this is all about control of the E-CatX.

    Thoughts?

    • Ged

      It’s possible. The press release says it’s about misappropriation of Rossi’s IP by IH, and your scenario would fall under that.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Actually if IH isn’t paying, then it would stand to reason why Rossi filed. The only reason I can see IH filing is ecat didn’t meet the requirements of the contract. Maybe they think Rossi is in breach of the NDA and therefore no need to pay him. Rossi has said a lot, maybe too much.

      • Ged

        Apparently, from the folks reporting on the court filing above, it’s that the E-cat worked -too- well, and IH wasn’t prepared to pay as much as their contract stipulated in that event.

        That, and IH tried to patent some of Rossi’s tech, it appears from the filing. We’ll have to see if the courts think any of these complaints are valid or not, of course.

        Edit: And, very important to see what IH has to say about all this, as that could flip it all again.

    • psi2u2

      Makes a lot of sense to me. But now we also know from the court filing that the payout is an issue because Rossi et al. are claiming very high cops and the payout is huger than Cherokee/IH wants to pay. So there may be multiple layers of issues here.

  • Buck

    Am I correct in remembering something about an IH related patent application reported here at ecatworld?? And we wondered why rossi was not included on the application under “inventor”??

  • artefact

    Maybe it is about the money which could be due after the successful test.

  • Buck

    Am I correct in remembering something about an IH related patent application reported here at ecatworld?? And we wondered why rossi was not included on the application under “inventor”??

  • artefact

    Maybe it is about the money which could be due after the successful test.
    (Very maybe IH wants to have the 170 + x things fixed from the 1MW e-cat before he gets the money. Rossi sees a delay tactic from IH and fears that they want to give Brillouin more time)

  • Ged

    This really is mindboggling. Sure, it would be easy enough to accept if IH was trying to split from Rossi, but instead it’s Rossi who’s suing them. I guess IH didn’t want to let something go, as we’ve seen Leonardo corp becoming increasingly independent, and Rossi is having none of it. But it’s crazy. IH has been his strongest card in play since they came onto the scene. It’s like shooting himself in the foot, unless they really did try to take his tech and run, but that is hard to believe.

  • Barbierir

    I wonder if now Rossi is free to publish the report or it still takes IH approval. How does it work in a such messy case?

    • Curbina

      I doubt it. NDAs are binding under any circumstance and Rossi would not risk a counter sue for NDA breaching.

  • Barbierir

    I wonder if now Rossi is free to publish the report or it still takes IH approval. How does it work in a such messy case?

    • Curbina

      I doubt it. NDAs are binding under any circumstance and Rossi would not risk a counter sue for NDA breaching.

      • invient

        If it’s used as evidence, wouldnt it become public record?

  • Tommy

    I think this is a way for Leonardo Corp. and IH to stall for time so they can do more RND before having to show the report and thereby reveal important details, very clever. I believe Rossi is the one that doesn’t want to show the Report right now after finding out that he can make electricity directly from the E-Cat. With the new E-Cat X and Quark there are lots of RND needed. So what to do, fake a dispute involving layers and thereby be able to delay the report details indefinitely. Sorry guys I don’t see the Report published for a long time. This probably why the press release is so weird with both success and message of lawsuit.

  • Tommy

    I think this is a way for Leonardo Corp. and IH to stall for time so they can do more RND before having to show the report and thereby reveal important details, very clever. I believe Rossi is the one that doesn’t want to show the Report right now after finding out that he can make electricity directly from the E-Cat. With the new E-Cat X and Quark there are lots of RND needed. So what to do, fake a dispute involving layers and thereby be able to delay the report details indefinitely. Sorry guys I don’t see the Report published for a long time. This probably why the press release is so weird with both success and message of lawsuit.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Right, they liked what they saw. We must not forget IH and all their affiliates have not created anything. They are simply investors, fundamentally interested in making money. Rossi is so far ahead in LENR research, that IH has formed a strategy to invest in Rossi competitors, possibly trying to create their own IP, making themselves the “white knight” of this new energy source, thereby controlling as much of this new huge market as possible. IH has created nothing, they are an investment firm.

    • cashmemorz

      According to this view IH is so sure of the tech that it will make them money but not necessarily through Leonardo Corp. IH has investments in other LENR inventors.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        I don’t see any patents from IH from “other” LENR competitors except those created by Rossi

  • LuFong

    No mention of the customer in the PR. Rossi did mention that Penon’s test results was consistant with Rossi’s and IH’s.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      The customer could have been IH. It will be interesting to hear their take on this, in any case.

      • LuFong

        Rossi always referred to the customer as a customer of IH, if I recall.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    I wonder if IH will now distance itself from Rossi? They have got to at least issue a statement to appease their shareholders.

    Obviously, the most important question remains: IS THE TECHNOLOGY REAL? The feud will have dramatically different interpretations based on this fact.

    • Ged

      We’ll find out soon enough when IH makes their inevitable statement about all this.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    I wonder if IH will now distance itself from Rossi? They have got to at least issue a statement to appease their shareholders.

    Obviously, the most important question remains: IS THE TECHNOLOGY REAL? The feud will have dramatically different interpretations based on this fact.

    • Ged

      We’ll find out soon enough when IH makes their inevitable statement about all this.

  • MasterBlaster7

    Yessssssssss.

    Let me throw out some numbers.

    COP of 6 and COP of 50

    If Company X was spending 1 million dollars a year on their energy bill….they just spent….

    COP of 6….. 166,666$ a year (worst)
    COP of 50… 20,000$ a year (best)

    lets say it was a gallon of gas in our gas tanks (lets say 2.00$ a gallon)

    instead…we would be paying at the pump….

    COP of 6…. 33 cents (worst)
    COP of 50.. 4 cents (best)

    Rossi just won the internet!!! and the world energy market!!!; Yay!!!

  • MasterBlaster7

    Yessssssssss.

    Let me throw out some numbers.

    COP of 6 and COP of 50

    If Company X was spending 1 million dollars a year on their energy bill….they just spent….

    COP of 6….. 166,666$ a year (worst)
    COP of 50… 20,000$ a year (best)

    lets say it was a gallon of gas in our gas tanks (lets say 2.00$ a gallon)

    instead…we would be paying at the pump….

    COP of 6…. 33 cents (worst)
    COP of 50.. 4 cents (best)

    Rossi just won the internet!!! and the world energy market!!!; Yay!!!

  • LuFong

    Rossi mentions IH has corporate partners in addition to it’s licensees. To whom is he referring and how are they different than licensees? Is this ABB?

  • James Rice

    IH agreed to pay Rossi $89 million on successful completion of the 350 day test. That happened on March 29. Rossi asked for his money and IH didn’t pay. Also Rossi says IH filed patents of their own using Rossi’s intellectual property.

    • Source?

      • James Rice

        The court filing.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      How do you know this information?

  • James Rice

    IH agreed to pay Rossi $89 million on successful completion of the 350 day test. That happened on March 29. Rossi asked for his money and IH didn’t pay. Also Rossi says IH filed patents of their own using Rossi’s intellectual property.

    • Source?

      • James Rice

        The court filing.

        • Rheulan

          Did you download the PDFs?

        • Thanks. So, game on.

        • can you provide the PDFs for us?

    • Spill!!

    • oldrolledgold

      Well done,if so

  • Ged

    It’s possible. The press release says it’s about misappropriation of Rossi’s IP by IH, and your scenario would fall under that.

  • Jas

    Who is Dr Penon and why is he not credible?

    • Jas

      My post are delayed so I went to the facebook page and found my answer there.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Is history going to repeat itself? Is Tesla (Rossi) going to get screwed again?

    • HS61AF91

      nope, difference is the Internet.

      • LilyLover

        So, true.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Is history going to repeat itself? Is Tesla (Rossi) going to get screwed again?

    • HS61AF91

      nope, difference is the Internet.

      • LilyLover

        So, true.

  • Da Phys

    So much entertaining

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    Apparently payment was based on the COP and the COP ended up being greater than 50….60 at times. This resulted in a required payment of $89 million and it looks like IH isn’t willing or can’t pay.

    • Ged

      That was a very interesting risk on IH’s part, to have such a payment clause. A “what were they thinking” sort of hindsight moment.

      Wow, hm. A lot to digest about this.

    • Stephen

      Wow just as well it didn’t reach infinite COP!

      • Ged

        Now I can’t help but imagine Rossi pulling off this look while asking for his money http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/jamesbond/images/2/25/Dr._Evil_(Austin_Powers).png

      • Stephen

        Seriously I hope it’s just one those legal things that just needs to get resolved officially. I have huge respect for the work done by Andrea Rossi on E-Cat and had good impressions of Tom Darden and IH.

        • Ged

          Agreed. This is like watching heroes go to civil war. No matter which side wins, we lose due to there being a fight in the first place.

        • psi2u2

          I agree. Guys, make peace. We need you working together.

    • Buck

      Source of your assertion??

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        The court filing. Main document paragraph 71. I need to read the legal fine print to see if I can upload the documents here.

      • samwilson

        71. On February 15, 2016, the Guaranteed Performance test was successfully concluded. The E-Cat Unit had successfully operated for more than three hundred fifty (350) days out ofa four hundred (a00) day period at a level substantially greater than the level achieved during the Validation Test. By all accounts, the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance Test was substantially greater than fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed by the E-Cat Unit during the same period.

        72. On or about March 29, 2016, the ERV published his final report regarding the operation of the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance test. In the ERV’s report, the ERV confirmed that the E-Cat Unit had satisfied all of the performance requirements imposed by the License Agreement including, but not limited to, the requirement that the production of energy was at least six (6) times greater than the energy consumed.

        73. More specifically, the ERV found that over the Guaranteed Performance period, the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit was consistently substantially greater than six (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the unit. In fact, the ERV found that during the testing period, the average energy multiplier (Energy Produced + Energy Consumed) was often greater than sixty (60).

    • The lawsuit claims the **overall** COP was greater than 50?

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        73. More specifically, the ERV found that over the Guaranteed Performance period,
        the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit was consistently substantially greater than six (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the unit. In fact, the ERV found that during the testing period, the average energy multiplier (Energy Produced + Energy Consumed) was often greater than sixty (60).

        • Holy…

          That’s not your father’s measurement error.

          • US_Citizen71

            LMAOROTHPMP!!!!!

          • Da Phys

            That’s Rossi’s friend’s measurement. Penon was not independent. I cannot imagine that IH agreed to have Penon as ERV.

          • Well apparently they did agree because it went on for a year. But yeah, bad call by them.

          • Ged

            That’s the biggest wiggle I see in all this: If IH counter claims they didn’t measure the same results. But even then, that doesn’t deal with the other part of the filing, that IH was trying to patent aspects of Rossi’s technology for themselves, though.

          • LuFong

            If IH disputes the results then I’m guessing the dispute will revolve around this.

          • Well. They did. They even Rossi $10M after the validation test in 2013, so it seems they trusted him.

        • Ged

          If that is accurate, then the E-cat outperforms even coal for Energy Return on Investment.

        • Oystein Lande

          So IH was supposed to then buy the 1MW plant based upon a COP formula?

          And then COP ended up too high and the formula went crazy?

          Haha, If so I’m sorry for IH that did not include a maximum Value in the contract.

          • psi2u2

            Ya I would someone made a mistake on that one. That was a t worth crossing.

        • Oh. Take out the 73, I thought that was the COP (it’s just the paragraph number in the complaint).

          But the do say overall COP over 50 so, same deal just less specific.

    • US_Citizen71

      So it turned into a Castle Bravo test and threatens to damage their wallet.

      • MasterBlaster7

        Hhahaah….nice.

    • James Rice

      COP had to be greater than 6 for Rossi to get paid, and it apparently ended up being around 50.

      • MasterBlaster7

        Have you read the law suit Rice? I haven’t. So, basically this is more like an NFL player contract dispute than a serious rift between IH and Leonardo corp?

  • Da Phys

    So much entertaining

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    Apparently payment was based on the COP and the COP ended up being greater than 50….60 at times. This resulted in a required payment of $89 million and it looks like IH isn’t willing or can’t pay.

    • Ged

      That was a very interesting risk on IH’s part, to have such a payment clause. A “what were they thinking” sort of hindsight moment.

      Wow, hm. A lot to digest about this.

    • Stephen

      Wow just as well it didn’t reach infinite COP!

      • Ged

        Now I can’t help but imagine Rossi pulling off this look while asking for his money http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/jamesbond/images/2/25/Dr._Evil_(Austin_Powers).png

      • Stephen

        Seriously I hope it’s just one those legal things that just needs to get resolved officially. I have huge respect for the work done by Andrea Rossi on E-Cat and had good impressions of Tom Darden and IH.

        • Ged

          Agreed. This is like watching heroes go to civil war. No matter which side wins, we lose due to there being a fight in the first place.

        • psi2u2

          I agree. Guys, make peace. We need you working together.

    • Buck

      Source of your assertion??

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        The court filing. Main document paragraph 71. I need to read the legal fine print to see if I can upload the documents here.

        • Rheulan

          Thanks!

      • samwilson

        71. On February 15, 2016, the Guaranteed Performance test was successfully concluded. The E-Cat Unit had successfully operated for more than three hundred fifty (350) days out ofa four hundred (a00) day period at a level substantially greater than the level achieved during the Validation Test. By all accounts, the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance Test was substantially greater than fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed by the E-Cat Unit during the same period.

        72. On or about March 29, 2016, the ERV published his final report regarding the operation of the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance test. In the ERV’s report, the ERV confirmed that the E-Cat Unit had satisfied all of the performance requirements imposed by the License Agreement including, but not limited to, the requirement that the production of energy was at least six (6) times greater than the energy consumed.

        73. More specifically, the ERV found that over the Guaranteed Performance period, the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit was consistently substantially greater than six (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the unit. In fact, the ERV found that during the testing period, the average energy multiplier (Energy Produced + Energy Consumed) was often greater than sixty (60).

    • The lawsuit claims the **overall** COP was greater than 50?

      • Buck

        Wow . . . . this is one heck of a way to hear this +50 COP news.

        A +50 COP implies displacing 98% of historically purchased power from the grid. No wonder the customer had the charges replaced at the end of the year!!!

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        73. More specifically, the ERV found that over the Guaranteed Performance period,
        the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit was consistently substantially greater than six (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the unit. In fact, the ERV found that during the testing period, the average energy multiplier (Energy Produced + Energy Consumed) was often greater than sixty (60).

        • Holy…

          That’s not your father’s measurement error.

          • US_Citizen71

            LMAOROTHPMP!!!!!

          • clovis ray

            me 2

          • Da Phys

            That’s Rossi’s friend’s measurement. Penon was not independent. I cannot imagine that IH agreed to have Penon as ERV.

          • They must have. before the test even started.

          • Well apparently they did agree because it went on for a year. But yeah, bad call by them.

          • Ged

            That’s the biggest wiggle I see in all this: If IH counter claims they didn’t measure the same results. But even then, that doesn’t deal with the other part of the filing, that IH was trying to patent aspects of Rossi’s technology for themselves, though.

          • Jas

            Rossi’s engineer friend is called Fulvio Fabiani or Fabiani Fulvio.
            Fabio is a common name in Italy. Are you getting him and Dr Penon confused?

          • Well. They did. They even Rossi $10M after the validation test in 2013, so it seems they trusted him.

        • Ged

          If that is accurate, then the E-cat outperforms even coal for Energy Return on Investment.

        • Oystein Lande

          So IH was supposed to then buy the 1MW plant based upon a COP formula?

          And then COP ended up too high and the formula went crazy?

          Haha, If so I’m sorry for IH that did not include a maximum Value in the contract.

          • psi2u2

            Ya I would someone made a mistake on that one. That was a t worth crossing.

        • Oh. Take out the 73, I thought that was the COP (it’s just the paragraph number in the complaint).

          But the do say overall COP over 50 so, same deal just less specific.

    • Duffy

      It must be that the IH does not want to pay. If they can not pay, it must be better for Rossi to wait for the money start flowing in to IH.

    • HHiram

      WOW.

      Well THAT would certainly explain a great deal, and change everything about this turn of events.

      Let’s hope it isn’t just wishful thinking 😉

    • US_Citizen71

      So it turned into a Castle Bravo test and threatens to damage their wallet.

      • MasterBlaster7

        Hhahaah….nice.

    • James Rice

      COP had to be greater than 6 for Rossi to get paid, and it apparently ended up being around 50.

      • MasterBlaster7

        Have you read the law suit Rice? I haven’t. So, basically this is more like an NFL player contract dispute than a serious rift between IH and Leonardo corp?

  • oldrolledgold

    IH has several technologies it has a finger in?So it can mix and match.Strange that you wouldn’t pay a ‘paltry’ £89million unless you aren’t satisfied OR you have bigger backers with another agenda? (alledgedly).

    • LilyLover

      This is how the banking bandits and oil-slick strikes. Force IH to obey or else Cherokee underwater. The players are haughty establishment vs naughty Rossi.
      Internet makes Rossi win.

  • Michael W Wolf

    Actually if IH isn’t paying, then it would stand to reason why Rossi filed. The only reason I can see IH filing is ecat didn’t meet the requirements of the contract. Maybe they think Rossi is in breach of the NDA and therefore no need to pay him. Rossi has said a lot, maybe too much.

    • Ged

      Apparently, from the folks reporting on the court filing above, it’s that the E-cat worked -too- well, and IH wasn’t prepared to pay as much as their contract stipulated.

      That, and IH tried to patent some of Rossi’s tech, it appears from the filing. We’ll have to see if the courts think any of these complaints are valid or not, of course.

  • Bob Tivnan

    I don’t see how this development can possibly be interpreted as progress for Rossi. IH was Rossi’s ticket to credibility. He needed Darden and company to be taken seriously. IMO, anything short of releasing the entire ERV report showing unequivocal COP>6 for the duration of the test will set Rossi back to 2011. Even if full disclosure occurs, the legitimacy of the ERV is now called into question. I am very disappointed with this news.

    • Ged

      IH was apparently taking its own measurements. So there was Leonardo, the both-parties-agreed-upon ERV, and IH all measuring the device.

      We’ll have to see what IH says about this, but since the press release says the ERV got the same results as both Rossi and IH, independently, and the court filing says those results were on average a COP over 60, that puts a huge twist on all this.

      Maybe IH will disagree, but it looks like this is about money.

      • MasterBlaster7

        So, hypothetically say IH wants to state a COP of 5-50…because…they want to sell multiple units at increasing COP or a more expensive device the higher the COP in a tiered fashion? Exactly how are you imagining the money angle Ged? Not being critical; being curious.

        • Ged

          It’s a -lot- of money at stake here.

      • Bob Tivnan

        Ok Ged, I’m open to the possibility that IH agrees with the results of the ERV report. Let’s follow the bread crumbs. If what you’re suggesting is true, then why would IH do anything to breach the contract and put their partnership with Rossi in jeopardy? They would stand to make bundles of money for their investors. A fall out indicates that either they do not agree with the ERV, or IH does agree but thinks they can do better with another competitor of Rossi with whom they have invested. The latter would be good news in my view.

        • psi2u2

          Bob, did you read the comments below on the issue of the payout. According to Rossi’s court brief, at least part of the issue is that Cherokee/IH contracted to pay according to how high the cop was, and vastly underestimated what it could be and hence incurred a liability that seemed excessive.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            How dumb of them to not put a ceiling on there… ehh, the whole thing doesn’t make any sense.

          • timycelyn

            I think they grossly under called Rossi – that’s why they are dicking around with his competitors. They never even imagined he could get anywhere much above 8, perhaps 9 on a very good day. Minds too small….?

          • artefact

            I think so too.

          • LilyLover

            Wha’s more astonishing is the integrity of the technical staff on both sides that collected and understood the readings and yet did not relay the implications to IH in deviance from the contract.

          • LilyLover

            I’m sure, there is a ceiling … they simply didn’t feel it could even come close. But when it did, the IH mandate to fail Rossi, failed. The alternative was to contain the CF and buy up competitors and steal Rossi’s IP.
            IH now has two choices – obey thy master’s will or crash and burn the Cherokkee.
            Ever wondered why did the snakes disappear all of a sudden? They didn’t. simply waited to play a long game.

          • BillH

            The worst possible case would be that the 1 year test showed excess heat for extended periods of time but was found to be unreliable over the duration of the test. AR then tried to convince them that the E-Cat X was the way forward. The test having been deemed unsatisfactory by IH, they were then unwilling to fund AR further on a new unproven technology. Big split, end of story.

            Since this is at odds with AR’s previously stated relationship with IH we can assume someone was not being exactly truthful.

          • US_Citizen71

            According to the license agreement COP only had to be 4.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            No, the worst possible scenario would be there was no excess heat.

          • SG

            Based on the complaint, the $89 million was a fixed amount. It wasn’t contingent on the COP. That conjecture was withdrawn by the person who first stated it.

          • Buck

            While I’m not IH and don’t have money on the line, I believe IH is being incredibly short sighted regarding an invention which will make incredible amounts of money.

            This doesn’t sound like Darden . . . but greed for 10’s of $Bs can do strange things.

          • Bob Tivnan

            I did not, but WishfulThinking has since corrected his conjecture and agrees that this is not a case of IH paying Rossi commensurate with COP. See his more recent post above.

          • psi2u2

            ok, thanks. never a dull moment.

        • Ged

          It’s just more money than anyone expected. If IH only has around 100 million in funds for this as the filing states, than this payout would almost drain them dry. That is a problem!

  • Lawyers and Blood always Lawyers and Blood.

    • LilyLover

      Two cats, butter ball, monkey, weight balance, heavy-lighter, repeated lick to balance, tiny remains, “fees for the arbitration”.
      Rossi is too smart for that.

  • Bob Tivnan

    I don’t see how this development can possibly be interpreted as progress for Rossi. IH was Rossi’s ticket to credibility. He needed Darden and company to be taken seriously. IMO, anything short of releasing the entire ERV report showing unequivocal COP>6 for the duration of the test will set Rossi back to 2011. Even if full disclosure occurs, the legitimacy of the ERV is now called into question. I am very disappointed with this news.

    • Marius

      I don’t need Darden to buy an E-cat.

    • Ged

      IH was apparently taking its own measurements. So there was Leonardo, the both-parties-agreed-upon ERV, and IH all measuring the device.

      We’ll have to see what IH says about this, but since the press release says the ERV got the same results as both Rossi and IH, independently, and the court filing says those results were on average a COP over 60, that puts a huge twist on all this.

      Maybe IH will disagree, but it looks like this is about money.

      • MasterBlaster7

        So, hypothetically say IH wants to state a COP of 5-50…because…they want to sell multiple units at increasing COP or a more expensive device the higher the COP in a tiered fashion? Exactly how are you imagining the money angle Ged? Not being critical; being curious.

        nevermind…reading below.

        • Ged

          It’s a -lot- of money at stake here.

      • Bob Tivnan

        Ok Ged, I’m open to the possibility that IH agrees with the results of the ERV report. Let’s follow the bread crumbs. If what you’re suggesting is true, then why would IH do anything to breach the contract and put their partnership with Rossi in jeopardy? They would stand to make bundles of money for their investors. A fall out indicates that either they do not agree with the ERV, or IH does agree but thinks they can do better with another competitor of Rossi with whom they have invested. The latter would be good news in my view.

        • psi2u2

          Bob, did you read the comments below on the issue of the payout. According to Rossi’s court brief, at least part of the issue is that Cherokee/IH contracted to pay according to how high the cop was, and vastly underestimated what it could be and hence incurred a liability that seemed excessive.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            How dumb of them to not put a ceiling on there… ehh, the whole thing doesn’t make any sense.

          • timycelyn

            I think they grossly under called Rossi – that’s why they are dicking around with his competitors. They never even imagined he could get anywhere much above 8, perhaps 9 on a very good day. Minds too small….?

          • artefact

            I think so too.

          • LilyLover

            Wha’s more astonishing is the integrity of the technical staff on both sides that collected and understood the readings and yet did not relay the implications to IH in deviance from the contract.

          • LilyLover

            I’m sure, there is a ceiling … they simply didn’t feel it could even come close. But when it did, the IH mandate to fail Rossi, failed. The alternative was to contain the CF and buy up competitors and steal Rossi’s IP.
            IH now has two choices – obey thy master’s will or crash and burn the Cherokkee.
            Ever wondered why did the snakes disappear all of a sudden? They didn’t. simply waited to play a long game.

          • SG

            Based on the complaint, the $89 million was a fixed amount. It wasn’t contingent on the COP. That conjecture was withdrawn by the person who first stated it.

          • Buck

            While I’m not IH and don’t have money on the line, I believe IH is being incredibly short sighted regarding an invention which will make incredible amounts of money.

            This doesn’t sound like Darden . . . but greed for 10’s of $Bs can do strange things.

          • Bob Tivnan

            I did not, but WishfulThinking has since corrected his conjecture and agrees that this is not a case of IH paying Rossi commensurate with COP. See his more recent post above.

          • psi2u2

            ok, thanks. never a dull moment.

        • Ged

          It’s just more money than anyone expected. If IH only has around 100 million in funds for this as the filing states, than this payout would almost drain them dry. That is a problem!

  • Lawyers and Blood always Lawyers and Blood.

    • LilyLover

      Two cats, butter ball, monkey, weight balance, heavy-lighter, repeated lick to balance, tiny remains, “fees for the arbitration”.
      Rossi is too smart for that.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    While I agree on the surface, let’s wait for IH’s official response to verify the information.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    Didn’t Rossi say to Mats Lewan that the ERV worked for some firm?

    • SG

      Be of good cheer. Disruptive technology invites high stakes disputes. Just look back at the historical roll-out of the automobile, television, radio, electricity, cinema projectors, digital cameras, mobile smart phones, and the list is very long–all with giant legal battles. Thomas Edison, for example, was very litigious.

      I suspect that IH has not agreed to release the ERV report, and the lawsuit is a way for Mr. Rossi to put at least some of the information into the public domain in a round-about way. And it also appears that Mr. Rossi, once again, has been dealt with unfairly in some way. He isn’t going to just sit down and take it. Recall the vicissitudes that he has already walked in his life. This is just one more battle for him.

      Now, there are always two sides to every fight, and we have yet to hear IH’s reply. No doubt there will be counterclaims and this dispute will proceed through the court systems for years to come (unless, of course, there is a mending of ways and a mediated resolution found). While it would have been great to see IH and Rossi continue to work together, the stakes are simply too high. Expensive fights were bound to happen, and they will continue to happen. Why? Because LENR is real, and more specifically and importantly, so too is the e-Cat.

  • Da Phys

    Wait for the counter-attack of IH. Now the earlier press release by IH makes much sense, they wanted to distance themselves from the ERV report.

    • Paul Smith

      IH could write:
      a) – Penon is right, the test is OK and the E-Cat is a revolution, or
      b) – Penon is wrong, the E-Cat isn’t a revolution

      I think that they will write a), confirming the so called “Effetto Rossi”

    • LuFong

      They are not making the payment either a) they don’t have it b) they dispute the findings in some way. I would be very surprised if a) because surely must have anticipated that it would work or have contingencies set up in case it did work. Rossi does claim that they don’t have the money but I’m not sure if I buy that. So that leaves the dispute which is bad news for me. I doubt IH will say anything at this point other than through the case.

      • Ged

        Thankfully it’ll be public for all to see either way. Unless they settle out of court…

        • LilyLover

          They will settle out of court. The larger objective they had was to burry Rossi. Court case only makes Rossi look better and known and with potentially more partners. The masters want no light on this topic and light they’ll get.
          For a long time I have been saying that the best thing Frank has done for Rossi is to keep him in the public eye and prevent his assassination.

  • e-dog

    What a Farce…
    Such a sorry state of affairs for science, its all about the money it seems…

    • e-dog

      Could be a good way of proving LENR.. in the courts???

      • timycelyn

        Wouldn’t work. MY and the Gang would claim Rossi bought the judge… 🙂

      • Stephen

        Interesting idea. Whether accidental or not that could be an intriguing side effect.

      • US_Citizen71

        If it goes that far, more likely a settlement will be reached. Bad PR won’t help Cherokee or Darden with the economy being what it is.

        • LilyLover

          At this point, Cherokkee’s masters have decided to shut it down for its failure to contain Rossi. You’ll soon see, the “IP” that IH bought “from around the World” will be sold off to the “other company” and “thus” they’ll “have” money to pay off Rossi.

          Spectre: We do not tolerate failure. 12 seconds is too slow, needs improvement.

    • Wishful Thinking Energy

      86. IH and/or IPH have breached the License Agreement by exceeding the scope of

      their license including, but not limited to:

      a. publically claiming an ownership interest in the underlying E-Cat IP;

      b. attempting to use the E-Cat IP outside of its limited Licensed Territory including

      attempting to obtain a European Patent in its name using the E-Cat IP; and

      c. wrongfully applying for a United States Patent for the E-Cat IP and falsely asserting

      that one of its agents, contractors andlor employees, Mr. Thomas Barker Dameron,

      was a co-inventor of the E-Cat IP so as to enable IH and/or IPH to misappropriate

      ROSSI and LEONARDO’s intellectual property.

      87. As a result of IH and IPH’s breach of the License Agreement, ROSSI and

      LEONARDO have been damaged.

      • LuFong

        When IH first announced, they claimed they acquired the rights to Rossi’s IP. Later they back off and said they acquired certain rights.

        • psi2u2

          Yes that’s true. So this confusion has been brewing for some time. Good point.

  • Da Phys

    Wait for the counter-attack of IH. Now the earlier press release by IH makes much sense, they wanted to distance themselves from the ERV report.

    • Paul Smith

      IH could write:
      a) – Penon is right, the test is OK and the E-Cat is a revolution, or
      b) – Penon is wrong, the E-Cat isn’t a revolution

      I think that they will write a), confirming the so called “Effetto Rossi”

  • e-dog

    What a Farce…
    Such a sorry state of affairs for science, its all about the money it seems…

    • e-dog

      Could be a good way of proving LENR.. in the courts???

      • timycelyn

        Wouldn’t work. MY and the Gang would claim Rossi bought the judge… 🙂

      • Stephen

        Interesting idea. Whether accidental or not that could be an intriguing side effect.

      • US_Citizen71

        If it goes that far, more likely a settlement will be reached. Bad PR won’t help Cherokee or Darden with the economy being what it is.

        • LilyLover

          At this point, Cherokkee’s masters have decided to shut it down for its failure to contain Rossi. You’ll soon see, the “IP” that IH bought “from around the World” will be sold off to the “other company” and “thus” they’ll “have” money to pay off Rossi.

          Spectre: We do not tolerate failure. 12 seconds is too slow, needs improvement.

  • Ged

    I’d like to take a moment to give thanks for those folks spending their money to look at the filing and then reporting back to us about it.

    • Wishful Thinking Energy

      There is a TON of info there. I’m talking to Frank about posting it for all to see. I just have to verify I can do that without lawyers coming after me.

      • thank you!

      • e-dog

        Cheers Brian good idea

      • LilyLover

        Keep it “password” protected for “limited circulation amongst friends” and do not tell anyone what the “password123” is, and you are legally off the hook.

        • Eyedoc

          Yes listen to Lily, and thanks WTE

  • Hank Mills

    If Industrial Heat signed onto the report and agrees that the COP was over the target of “6” then it seems that Rossi has a strong case. I wonder if they were willing to sign it, however. Rossi’s legal documentation states that by “all accounts” the goal COP was met. So if they signed the report and still refused to pay…. I don’t know. This is a bit overwhelming.

  • SG

    Be of good cheer. Disruptive technology invites high stakes disputes. Just look back at the historical roll-out of the automobile, television, radio, electricity, cinema projectors, digital cameras, mobile smart phones, and the list is very long–all with giant legal battles. Thomas Edison, for example, was very litigious.

    I suspect that IH has not agreed to release the ERV report, and the lawsuit is a way for Mr. Rossi to put at least some of the information into the public domain in a round-about way. And it also appears that Mr. Rossi, once again, has been dealt with unfairly in some way. He isn’t going to just sit down and take it. Recall the vicissitudes that he has already walked in his life. This is just one more battle for him.

    Now, there are always two sides to every fight, and we have yet to hear IH’s reply. No doubt there will be counterclaims and this dispute will proceed through the court systems for years to come (unless, of course, there is a mending of ways and a mediated resolution found). While it would have been great to see IH and Rossi continue to work together, the stakes are simply too high. Expensive fights were bound to happen, and they will continue to happen. Why? Because LENR is real, and more specifically and importantly, so too is the e-Cat.

  • James Rice

    Rossi also said that the commercial customer for the 350 day test (who he found) agreed to pay $1000/day for the heat generated.

  • James Rice

    Rossi also said that the commercial customer for the 350 day test (who he found) agreed to pay $1000/day for the heat generated.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    lI2. At all times relevant hereto, Defendants DARDEN, VAUGHN, IH and

    CHEROKEE misrepresented to ROSSI and LEONARDO that:

    a. both IH and CHEROKEE had funds in excess of One Hundred Million

    Dollars ($100,000,000.00) available to pay to ROSSI and LEONARDO for

    the license for the E-Cat IP;

    b. upon the completion of the Guaranteed Performance test, IH (and

    subsequently IPH) would pay ROSSI and LEONARDO the full amount of

    the license fee;

    • e-dog

      Thanks Brian.

      Seems a bit … “greedy”. $100,000,000.00 for a licence, royalties would be a smarter way to play???? Rossi sure wants to make it difficult to get these e-cats out into the market…..
      Maybe “rich” is a better word?

      Screw the planet and everything on it… money matters more.

      • SG

        Mr. Rossi was offered multiple times this amount by a U.S. government agency for full rights to the e-Cat, according to information and quotes in Matts’ “The Impossible Invention” book. Mr. Rossi turned it down and accepted a “lesser” offer from the IH folks because he felt they were enlightened individuals with an alignment of purpose to bring the technology to the world. This is evidence of lack of greed.

        • LilyLover

          Also remember, Rossi had taught IH fully to create E-Cat on their own should he be eliminated from Earth so that his ECat would survive. It’s more than a license fees – it’s the complete know-hows that were transferred and thus IH feels safe that they can independently prove that “it’s their” technology.
          Rossi was deceived in that aspect.

    • Teemu Soilamo
      • Ged

        dun Dun DUN!

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    lI2. At all times relevant hereto, Defendants DARDEN, VAUGHN, IH and

    CHEROKEE misrepresented to ROSSI and LEONARDO that:

    a. both IH and CHEROKEE had funds in excess of One Hundred Million

    Dollars ($100,000,000.00) available to pay to ROSSI and LEONARDO for

    the license for the E-Cat IP;

    b. upon the completion of the Guaranteed Performance test, IH (and

    subsequently IPH) would pay ROSSI and LEONARDO the full amount of

    the license fee;

    • e-dog

      Thanks Brian.

      Seems a bit … “greedy”. $100,000,000.00 for a licence, royalties would be a smarter way to play???? Rossi sure wants to make it difficult to get these e-cats out into the market…..
      Maybe “rich” is a better word?

      Screw the planet and everything on it… money matters more.

      • SG

        Mr. Rossi was offered multiple times this amount by a U.S. government agency for full rights to the e-Cat, according to information and quotes in Matts’ “The Impossible Invention” book. Mr. Rossi turned it down and accepted a “lesser” offer from the IH folks because he felt they were enlightened individuals with an alignment of purpose to bring the technology to the world. This is evidence of lack of greed.

        • e-dog

          ok… lets use the words “a little bit rich” instead…
          but hey! Didnt Hulk Hogan get awarded $150 million for leaking a sex tape?
          Its all about priorities i guess

        • LilyLover

          Also remember, Rossi had taught IH fully to create E-Cat on their own should he be eliminated from Earth so that his ECat would survive. It’s more than a license fees – it’s the complete know-hows that were transferred and thus IH feels safe that they can independently prove that “it’s their” technology.
          Rossi was deceived in that aspect.

      • pangoo

        Think of the size of the market. 100,000,000 is peanuts. This is just capitalism at work 😀

    • Teemu Soilamo
      • Ged

        dun Dun DUN!

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    86. IH and/or IPH have breached the License Agreement by exceeding the scope of

    their license including, but not limited to:

    a. publically claiming an ownership interest in the underlying E-Cat IP;

    b. attempting to use the E-Cat IP outside of its limited Licensed Territory including

    attempting to obtain a European Patent in its name using the E-Cat IP; and

    c. wrongfully applying for a United States Patent for the E-Cat IP and falsely asserting

    that one of its agents, contractors andlor employees, Mr. Thomas Barker Dameron,

    was a co-inventor of the E-Cat IP so as to enable IH and/or IPH to misappropriate

    ROSSI and LEONARDO’s intellectual property.

    87. As a result of IH and IPH’s breach of the License Agreement, ROSSI and

    LEONARDO have been damaged.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    77 . Pursuant to paragraph 3.2(c) of the License Agreement, and amendments thereto,

    (Exhibits “B”,”r” &”D”) “within f,rve business days following 350 days of operation of the [E-

    1.4

    Case 1:16-cv-21199-CMA Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 04/05/2016 Page 14 of 27

    Catl Plant during which the Guaranteed Performance has been achieved … [IH] will pay to

    Leonardo Eighty Nine Million Dollars ($89,000,000).”

    78. By virtue of the assignment, IPH is also responsible for the Eighty-Nine Million

    Dollar ($89,000,000.00) payment.

    79. As verihed by the ERV, the E-Cat Unit has satisfied andlor exceeded each and

    every minimum performance criteria set forth in the License Agreement.

    80. IH and IPH have refused to make the requisite Eighty-Nine Million Dollar

    ($89,000,000.00) payment to LEONARDO in breach of the License Agreement. As a result of

    such breach, LEONARDO and ROSSI have been damaged.

  • Fyodor

    I’d be interested in hearing IH’s response-it sounds like they might not have agreed with or believed the ERV report..

    • Mats002

      Me too.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    77 . Pursuant to paragraph 3.2(c) of the License Agreement, and amendments thereto,

    (Exhibits “B”,”r” &”D”) “within f,rve business days following 350 days of operation of the [E-

    1.4

    Case 1:16-cv-21199-CMA Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 04/05/2016 Page 14 of 27

    Catl Plant during which the Guaranteed Performance has been achieved … [IH] will pay to

    Leonardo Eighty Nine Million Dollars ($89,000,000).”

    78. By virtue of the assignment, IPH is also responsible for the Eighty-Nine Million

    Dollar ($89,000,000.00) payment.

    79. As verihed by the ERV, the E-Cat Unit has satisfied andlor exceeded each and

    every minimum performance criteria set forth in the License Agreement.

    80. IH and IPH have refused to make the requisite Eighty-Nine Million Dollar

    ($89,000,000.00) payment to LEONARDO in breach of the License Agreement. As a result of

    such breach, LEONARDO and ROSSI have been damaged.

  • Fyodor

    I’d be interested in hearing IH’s response-it sounds like they might not have agreed with or believed the ERV report..

    • Mats002

      Me too.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    Calling it now: IH will claim Rossi and his “friend” fabricated the results of the test. Hence why they’re not paying up.

    • Buck

      Then why did they (IH) file patents in Europe, per Rossi’s complaint?

      • Teemu Soilamo

        Pre-emptive measure? Remember, that happened a long time ago.

    • Ged

      That’ll be their best defense. In these situations everything can change on a dime; so what comes next and what this means hinges on what IH says. Could be they measured a lesser COP though still passed the 6 threshold and don’t want to pay that particular amount.

      • NT

        I wonder, could this mess force Rossi publicly prove up the e-cat by court action?

        • SG

          It will force much information into the public domain, probably including the identity of the customer. It might actually not be a bad thing to get things out into the open.

          • NT

            Agreed…

          • e-dog

            agree

    • timycelyn

      You can’t fabricate a gas meter result, or the custoer’s bank account…

  • Hank Mills

    I hope IH sends out a press release explaining why they won’t pay Rossi the agreed upon sum of 89 million dollars.

    • LilyLover

      If they were that “responsible”, they’d not have allowed this situation to develop in the first place.

    • SG

      You will see their position, in their soon-to-be-filed response to the complaint and counterclaims.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    67. During the Guaranteed Performance Test period, IH and/or IPH engaged and paid

    two of their representatives, Mr. Barry West and Mr. Fulvio Fabiani, to monitor, maintain, take

    part in, and report on the operation of the E-Cat Unit being tested.

    68. Throughout the Guaranteed Performance testing period, the results of the test,

    including measurements and operational status, were routinely reported to DARDEN, VAUGHN,

    IH and IPH by ROSSI, the ERV and IH/IPH’s agents Mr. Fabiani and Mr. V/est.

    • Da Phys

      Fabiani as agent of IH. Even more laughable than Penon as ERV.

      • Teemu Soilamo

        I thought he worked for the Leonardo Corporation.

        • artefact

          He works now for IH.

    • Ged

      Now we see why Fabiani was gushing about the E-cat.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Rossi’s gopher Fabiani taking part in the measurements? it’s getting sillier by the minute.

  • psi2u2

    Makes a lot of sense to me. But now we also know from the court filing that the payout is an issue because Rossi et al. are claiming very high cops and the payout is huger than Cherokee/IH wants to pay. So there may be multiple layers of issues here.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    67. During the Guaranteed Performance Test period, IH and/or IPH engaged and paid

    two of their representatives, Mr. Barry West and Mr. Fulvio Fabiani, to monitor, maintain, take

    part in, and report on the operation of the E-Cat Unit being tested.

    68. Throughout the Guaranteed Performance testing period, the results of the test,

    including measurements and operational status, were routinely reported to DARDEN, VAUGHN,

    IH and IPH by ROSSI, the ERV and IH/IPH’s agents Mr. Fabiani and Mr. V/est.

    • Da Phys

      Fabiani as agent of IH. Even more laughable than Penon as ERV.

      • Teemu Soilamo

        I thought he worked for Leonardo Corporation?

        • artefact

          He works now for IH.

    • Ged

      Now we see why Fabiani was gushing about the E-cat.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Rossi’s gopher Fabiani taking part in the measurements? it’s getting sillier by the minute.

  • Marius

    Maybe the whole thing is a PR-stunt masterminded by APCO

  • wonderboy

    WoW! What is going on!!!

    I hope IH and Rossi will still commercialize together, because Rossi comes off as a bit of a nut if not.
    I really hope Rossi does not try and go it alone. :S

    SO disappointing to read this!

  • wonderboy

    WoW! What is going on!!!

    I hope IH and Rossi will still commercialize together, because Rossi comes off as a bit of a nut if not.
    I really hope Rossi does not try and go it alone. :S

    SO disappointing to read this!

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    Rossi found the secret customer. That will feed into skeptics too.

    63. Despite IH’s and IPH’s continued failure to secure an adequate testing facility,

    ROSSI took it upon himself to loeate and seeure a location in which to conduct the Guaranteed

    Performance Test, as well as obtain the requisite regulatory approvals for the operation of the ECat

    Unit.

    64. On or before August 13,2014, ROSSI and LEONARDO located a customer in

    Miami, Florida, who agreed to allow its facility to be used for the Guaranteed Performance Test

    and even agreed to pay IH up to One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00) per day for the energy

    produced by the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance Test.

    • Ged

      Can’t blame him if IH couldn’t do it, or were dragging their feet.

      • LilyLover

        IHdragging feet must have tipped off Rossi about the ulterior motives.
        Considering that, well played Dr. Rossi!

    • NT

      Sounds like the customer was/is not IH according to paragraph 64…

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    Rossi found the secret customer. That will feed into skeptics too.

    63. Despite IH’s and IPH’s continued failure to secure an adequate testing facility,

    ROSSI took it upon himself to loeate and seeure a location in which to conduct the Guaranteed

    Performance Test, as well as obtain the requisite regulatory approvals for the operation of the ECat

    Unit.

    64. On or before August 13,2014, ROSSI and LEONARDO located a customer in

    Miami, Florida, who agreed to allow its facility to be used for the Guaranteed Performance Test

    and even agreed to pay IH up to One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00) per day for the energy

    produced by the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance Test.

    • Ged

      Can’t blame him if IH couldn’t do it, or were dragging their feet.

      • LilyLover

        IHdragging feet must have tipped off Rossi about the ulterior motives.
        Considering that, well played Dr. Rossi!

    • NT

      Sounds like the customer was/is not IH according to paragraph 64…

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    56. In accordance with the License Agreement, and the First Amendment thereto, the

    parties selected Eng. Fabio Penon as the Expert Responsible for Validation (“ERV”) engaged to

    perform the Validation Test of the E-Cat Unit in Ferrara, Italy.

    57. On or about May 1, 2013, the ERV performed the Validation Test of the E-Cat

    Unit, following the test protocol which had been agreed upon by the parties.

    58. Upon conclusion ofthe Validation Test on or about May2,2013,the ERV eertihed

    that the E-Cat Unit satisfied each of the Validation requirements within the Validation Test period

    and IH paid to LEONARDO the second payment of Ten Million Dollars ($10,000,000.00) in

    accordance with the terms of the License Agreement and amendments thereto.

    • Da Phys

      That’s official: IH screwed up in selecting Penon.

      • Ged

        But they used him there years ago, so this isn’t IH’s first or even second rodeo here. Fascinating.

      • Mats002

        Is Penon a one-man company?

      • Ged

        Also note that IH has been in agreement about the protocols too. This was done with their guidance and authority for years.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    56. In accordance with the License Agreement, and the First Amendment thereto, the

    parties selected Eng. Fabio Penon as the Expert Responsible for Validation (“ERV”) engaged to

    perform the Validation Test of the E-Cat Unit in Ferrara, Italy.

    57. On or about May 1, 2013, the ERV performed the Validation Test of the E-Cat

    Unit, following the test protocol which had been agreed upon by the parties.

    58. Upon conclusion ofthe Validation Test on or about May2,2013,the ERV eertihed

    that the E-Cat Unit satisfied each of the Validation requirements within the Validation Test period

    and IH paid to LEONARDO the second payment of Ten Million Dollars ($10,000,000.00) in

    accordance with the terms of the License Agreement and amendments thereto.

    • Da Phys

      That’s official: IH screwed up in selecting Penon.

      • Ged

        But they used him there years ago, so this isn’t IH’s first or even second rodeo here. Fascinating.

      • Mats002

        Is Penon a one-man company?

      • Ged

        Also note that IH has been in agreement about the protocols too. This was done with their guidance and authority for years.

  • Billy Jackson

    i posted this in the “How do you launch a potential world changing energy technology” 10 days ago…

    I am still firmly in the camp that the true fight for LENR and the e-cat
    has not even begun. Entrenched interest are going to try and regulate
    the hell out of this through manipulation of our laws and court systems.
    Before the first one can be sold to the general public, you will find
    that they are going to tie them up in a legal battle of some sort.

    and so it begins….

    • psi2u2

      Billy my friend, I think you are right.

      and so it begin….

      • LilyLover

        Having to look towards China for deliverence, should make us reevaluate where we went wrong as a nation.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    It looks like I was wrong in my original assertion that payment was based on a multiple of COP. It looks like as long as it met the specified criteria:

    46. In exchange for granting the aforementioned license, IH agreed to pay

    LEONARDO One Hundred Million Five Hundred Thousand Dollars ($100,500,000.00) overthree

    (3) payments. The payment schedule was to be as follows:

    a. One Million Five Hundred Thousand Dollars ($1,500,000.00) upon execution

    of the License Agreement;

    b. Ten Million Dollars ($10,000,000.00) after the successful completion of a

    twenty-four hour test period (hereafter the “validation Test”) performed by an

    independent expert responsible for validation (hereafter “ERV”); and

    c. Eighty-Nine Million Dollars ($89,000,000.00) after the successful completion

    of a three hundred fifty (350) day test period (hereafter the “Guaranteed

    Performance Test”) performed by the ERV, or another independent expert

    agreed upon by the parties.

    • Ged

      Interesting. This information has been continually helpful and refining the picture and our ideas. Thank you so much.

      So, this is Not a case of sticker shock afterall. Nor do we know if IH really has the money for this right now, for sure, as this has been over years.

    • NT

      No wonder Rossi practically lived in that box for a year…

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      I find this a very reasonable agreement, even if the first payment seems a bit on the low side. Since this was agreed to in I think 2013(?) and step b was also reached some time ago, IH had plenty of time to see it coming and prepare that step c would be positive too.

      This refusal to pay reeks of hard core politics and powerplay. Very bad.

  • Rinus

    Hi, I am a newby…
    Perhaps Rossi urgently needs the 89 millions to invest in the ecat-x plant..

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    It looks like I was wrong in my original assertion that payment was based on a multiple of COP. It looks like as long as it met the specified criteria:

    46. In exchange for granting the aforementioned license, IH agreed to pay

    LEONARDO One Hundred Million Five Hundred Thousand Dollars ($100,500,000.00) overthree

    (3) payments. The payment schedule was to be as follows:

    a. One Million Five Hundred Thousand Dollars ($1,500,000.00) upon execution

    of the License Agreement;

    b. Ten Million Dollars ($10,000,000.00) after the successful completion of a

    twenty-four hour test period (hereafter the “validation Test”) performed by an

    independent expert responsible for validation (hereafter “ERV”); and

    c. Eighty-Nine Million Dollars ($89,000,000.00) after the successful completion

    of a three hundred fifty (350) day test period (hereafter the “Guaranteed

    Performance Test”) performed by the ERV, or another independent expert

    agreed upon by the parties.

    • Ged

      Interesting. This information has been continually helpful and refining the picture and our ideas. Thank you so much.

      So, this is Not a case of sticker shock afterall. Nor do we know if IH really has the money for this right now, for sure, as this has been over years.

    • NT

      No wonder Rossi practically lived in that box for a year…

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      I find this a very reasonable agreement, even if the first payment seems a bit on the low side. Since this was agreed to in I think 2013(?) and step b was also reached some time ago, IH had plenty of time to see it coming and prepare that step c would be positive too.

      This refusal to pay reeks of hard core politics and powerplay. Very bad.

  • Gerald

    Tottaly not my speciality but a document is added to the patent today..

    https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2015127263&recNum=1&tab=PCTDocuments&maxRec=&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=

    An International Application Status Report

    • James Rice

      That’s the patent that Rossi says IH fraudulently filed by IH with his I.P., and which falsely claims a co-inventor (Dameron).

    • NT

      Oh, oh, this passage from the patent application does not look good although it names Rossi as one of the inventors?

      “Report generated on: 06 April 2016 (06.04.2016)

      (10) Publication number: (43) Publication date: (26) Publication language:

      WO 2015/127263 27 August 2015 (27.08.2015) English (EN)

      (21) Application number: (22) Filing date: (25) Filing language:

      PCT/US2015/016897 20 February 2015 (20.02.2015) English (EN)

      (31) Priority number(s): (32) Priority date(s): (33) Priority status:

      61/943,016 (US) 21 February 2014 (21.02.2014)

      62/060,215 (US) 06 October 2014 (06.10.2014) Priority document received (in compliance with PCT Rule 17.1)

      (51) International Patent Classification:

      H05B 1/02 (2006.01); G21B 3/00 (2006.01)

      (71) Applicant(s):

      INDUSTRIAL HEAT, LLC [US/US]; 111 East Hargett Street Suite 300 Raleigh, North Carolina 27601 (US) (for all designated states)

      (72) Inventor(s):

      ROSSI, Andrea; 1331 Lincoln Rd. Apt. 601 Miami, Florida 33139 (US)

      DAMERON, Thomas Barker; 336 White Oak Rd. Raleigh, North Carolina 27609 (US)

      (74) Agent(s):

      KELLEY, Laura M.; Myers Bigel Sibley & Sajovec, PA PO Box 37428 Raleigh, North Carolina 27627 (US)

      (54) Title (EN): ENERGY-PRODUCING REACTION DEVICES, SYSTEMS AND RELATED METHODS

      (54) Title (FR): DISPOSITIFS RÉACTIONNELS DE PRODUCTION D’ÉNERGIE, SYSTÈMES ET PROCÉDÉS ASSOCIÉS

      (57) Abstract:

      (EN): A reactor device includes a reaction chamber; one or more thermal units in thermal communication with the reaction chamber configured to transfer thermal energy to the reaction chamber; and a refractory layer between the reaction chamber and the one or more thermal units. The refractory layer may include at least one recess configured to receive the one or more thermal units therein. The one or more thermal units may include one or more resistive wires. The at least one recess may include a spiral groove and the one or more resistive wires may be helically-disposed in the groove. The one or more resistive wires may include at least three wires carrying a three-phase alternating-current electric power. The refractory layer may include a ribbed or finned surface that increases heat dissipation away from the reaction chamber.

      (FR): Un dispositif réacteur comprend une chambre de réaction; une ou plusieurs unités thermique en communication thermique avec la chambre de réaction conçue pour transférer l’énergie thermique vers la chambre de réaction; et une couche réfractaire entre la chambre de réaction et l’unité ou les unités thermiques”

  • Gerald

    Tottaly not my speciality but a document is added to the patent today..

    https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2015127263&recNum=1&tab=PCTDocuments&maxRec=&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=

    An International Application Status Report

    • James Rice

      That’s the patent that Rossi says IH fraudulently filed by IH with his I.P., and which falsely claims a co-inventor (Dameron).

    • NT

      Oh, oh, this passage from the patent application does not look good although it names Rossi as one of the inventors?

      “Report generated on: 06 April 2016 (06.04.2016)

      (10) Publication number: (43) Publication date: (26) Publication language:

      WO 2015/127263 27 August 2015 (27.08.2015) English (EN)

      (21) Application number: (22) Filing date: (25) Filing language:

      PCT/US2015/016897 20 February 2015 (20.02.2015) English (EN)

      (31) Priority number(s): (32) Priority date(s): (33) Priority status:

      61/943,016 (US) 21 February 2014 (21.02.2014)

      62/060,215 (US) 06 October 2014 (06.10.2014) Priority document received (in compliance with PCT Rule 17.1)

      (51) International Patent Classification:

      H05B 1/02 (2006.01); G21B 3/00 (2006.01)

      (71) Applicant(s):

      INDUSTRIAL HEAT, LLC [US/US]; 111 East Hargett Street Suite 300 Raleigh, North Carolina 27601 (US) (for all designated states)

      (72) Inventor(s):

      ROSSI, Andrea; 1331 Lincoln Rd. Apt. 601 Miami, Florida 33139 (US)

      DAMERON, Thomas Barker; 336 White Oak Rd. Raleigh, North Carolina 27609 (US)

      (74) Agent(s):

      KELLEY, Laura M.; Myers Bigel Sibley & Sajovec, PA PO Box 37428 Raleigh, North Carolina 27627 (US)

      (54) Title (EN): ENERGY-PRODUCING REACTION DEVICES, SYSTEMS AND RELATED METHODS

      (54) Title (FR): DISPOSITIFS RÉACTIONNELS DE PRODUCTION D’ÉNERGIE, SYSTÈMES ET PROCÉDÉS ASSOCIÉS

      (57) Abstract:

      (EN): A reactor device includes a reaction chamber; one or more thermal units in thermal communication with the reaction chamber configured to transfer thermal energy to the reaction chamber; and a refractory layer between the reaction chamber and the one or more thermal units. The refractory layer may include at least one recess configured to receive the one or more thermal units therein. The one or more thermal units may include one or more resistive wires. The at least one recess may include a spiral groove and the one or more resistive wires may be helically-disposed in the groove. The one or more resistive wires may include at least three wires carrying a three-phase alternating-current electric power. The refractory layer may include a ribbed or finned surface that increases heat dissipation away from the reaction chamber.

      (FR): Un dispositif réacteur comprend une chambre de réaction; une ou plusieurs unités thermique en communication thermique avec la chambre de réaction conçue pour transférer l’énergie thermique vers la chambre de réaction; et une couche réfractaire entre la chambre de réaction et l’unité ou les unités thermiques”

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    This refusal from IH to pay Rossi is ridiculous. The results of the test are clearly hugely successful if an average COP of 50 has been reached. Paying a measly 89 million dollar is peanuts compared to the trillions of dollars profit the new energy source is representing. Surely IH is understanding this, so I can’t see what is motivating them not to pay.

    More worrying would be the posting of their own patents based on Rossi’s work. That would indicate they are about to steal his own invention. Based on the amount of money we are talking about that would not surprise me at all since I do not trust Investment Companies at all. In my opinion they are all about the money and not about a better world or fairness.

    • Buck

      INCREDIBLY SHORT SIGHTED!!!!! IMHO.

    • Michael W Wolf

      No way. IH screwed up. They didn’t believe in the ecat as much as they should have. They should have capped what they had to pay Rossi for the excess heat. Now they owe 89 million and can’t afford it. Am I seeing this right?

      • SG

        That seems like most plausible situation. I really want to go and read the whole complaint.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        Actually I would prefer this to any other explanation I’ve read so far.

    • LilyLover

      Funds deprived Rossi cannot partner with ABB to bring out the E-Cat X as they envision. BUT, there shall spring up an infantry of funders just because I say so.
      Invoking the Red Dragon.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    This refusal from IH to pay Rossi is ridiculous. The results of the test are clearly hugely successful if an average COP of 50 has been reached. Paying a measly 89 million dollar is peanuts compared to the trillions of dollars profit the new energy source is representing. Surely IH is understanding this, so I can’t see what is motivating them not to pay.

    More worrying would be the posting of their own patents based on Rossi’s work. That would indicate they are about to steal his own invention. Based on the amount of money we are talking about that would not surprise me at all since I do not trust Investment Companies at all. In my opinion they are all about the money and not about a better world or fairness.

    • Buck

      INCREDIBLY SHORT SIGHTED!!!!! IMHO.

    • Michael W Wolf

      No way. IH screwed up. They didn’t believe in the ecat as much as they should have. They should have capped what they had to pay Rossi for the excess heat. Now they owe 89 million and can’t afford it. Am I seeing this right?

      • SG

        That seems like most plausible situation. I really want to go and read the whole complaint.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        Actually I would prefer this to any other explanation I’ve read so far.

    • LilyLover

      Funds deprived Rossi cannot partner with ABB to bring out the E-Cat X as they envision. BUT, there shall spring up an infantry of funders just because I say so.
      Invoking the Red Dragon.

  • Da Phys

    Now with this lawsuit we are leaving the grey zone. It becomes black or white:
    – the E-Cat is truly able to achieve COP>50 and Rossi will use the $89mios to build the factory to produce the E-cat X/Quark. Winners: Rossi, LENR. Loser: IH.
    – the triumvirate Rossi-Fabiani-Penon is a scam. Losers: everyone.

    • Ged

      And whomever that Barry guy is.

    • Mats002

      This drama gets better by the hour 🙂

      • artefact

        I need to go to bed but I just can’t.

        • wpj

          So, is the June meeting on?

          • US_Citizen71

            lol

          • wpj

            Well, ML said a while ago that there was some problems between them.

          • e-dog

            I would book a ticket if Darden and Rossi were showing up!

          • SG

            Apparently Mr. Rossi has agreed to. Haven’t heard the same about Mr. Darden.

          • SG

            I vote yes!

        • Mats002

          Me too ^^

          This thread will hit 1000 posts while I sleep I’m afraid.

    • deleo77

      What a showdown this is going to be. The court case to see if Rossi’s cold fusion is real or a scam. Come one major media outlets. Dig into this one.

  • Da Phys

    Now with this lawsuit we are leaving the grey zone. It becomes black or white:
    – the E-Cat is truly able to achieve COP>50 and Rossi will use the $89mios to build the factory to produce the E-cat X/Quark. Winners: Rossi, LENR. Loser: IH.
    – the triumvirate Rossi-Fabiani-Penon is a scam. Losers: everyone.

    • Ged

      And whomever that Barry guy is.

    • Mats002

      This drama gets better by the hour 🙂

      • artefact

        I need to go to bed but I just can’t.

        • Mats002

          Me too ^^

          This thread will hit 1000 posts while I sleep I’m afraid.

    • deleo77

      What a showdown this is going to be. The court case to see if Rossi’s cold fusion is real or a scam. Come one major media outlets. Dig into this one.

  • Nixter

    My guess as to what is happening is that (International Heat) IH’s primary concern is disbursing the technology quickly and widely, to spread the new information, thereby maximizing the Ecats impact in the world (of energy). As to whether or not IH is purposefully breaking their agreement with Rossi, it’s hard to say, if IH’s main reason for being is to reduce the costs of clean energy (that is what their mission is,..) and Rossi is seen as blocking that goal, then yes IH may consider side stepping agreements to achieve that goal and willingly pay whatever fees or fines in order to get the technology out the door. This explains a lot, and may be why Rossi has been talking up the Quark-X tech lately, he is saying to IH, “Look what you are going to miss without me working with you any more.” If we see E-Cats quickly being made in China soon, (Very VERY soon) that will probably be the clue that the schism between Leonardo Corp, & IH is regarding how best to deploy the tech, ie; secretly while under the eye of inventor Rossi, or openly, … basically open sourced, being mass produced in China in partnership with IH.
    If this is the case, the result will be good for those wishing to see LENR tech appear in the form of mass produced hardware.Competition between Rossi and IH (or anyone else) will be good for everyone, as it will produce an arms race of competing technology, the end users (us, the world) will be the winners.

    Doctor Rossi has made it clear in his past statements that he wants to leverage his inventions into profits and that is indeed his right. But IH has clearly stated that their goal is to introduce innovative, clean and cheap energy to the world markets as quickly as possible, I am guessing that THAT is the primary difference between Rossi and IH and that is what is behind the lawsuit. The next few months will tell the tale as the differing points of view are tested in the courts.

    • Buck

      Not paying Rossi and filing patents in IH’s name is a strange way to achieve good.

      • Nixter

        I thought the same thing, we are guessing at this point, we will find out more as time passes. IH may be playing the roll of Robin Hood or the Sheriff of Nottingham. Hard to know which player to support without more facts. I am remaining neutral until I see the whole story.

    • LilyLover

      Saints and sinners reversed.

  • Nixter

    My guess as to what is happening is that (International Heat) IH’s primary concern is disbursing the technology quickly and widely, to spread the new information, thereby maximizing the Ecats impact in the world (of energy). As to whether or not IH is purposefully breaking their agreement with Rossi, it’s hard to say, if IH’s main reason for being is to reduce the costs of clean energy (that is what their mission is,..) and Rossi is seen as blocking that goal, then yes IH may consider side stepping agreements to achieve that goal and willingly pay whatever fees or fines in order to get the technology out the door. This explains a lot, and may be why Rossi has been talking up the Quark-X tech lately, he is saying to IH, “Look what you are going to miss without me working with you any more.” If we see E-Cats quickly being made in China soon, (Very VERY soon) that will probably be the clue that the schism between Leonardo Corp, & IH is regarding how best to deploy the tech, ie; secretly while under the eye of inventor Rossi, or openly, … basically open sourced, being mass produced in China in partnership with IH.
    If this is the case, the result will be good for those wishing to see LENR tech appear in the form of mass produced hardware.Competition between Rossi and IH (or anyone else) will be good for everyone, as it will produce an arms race of competing technology, the end users (us, the world) will be the winners.

    Doctor Rossi has made it clear in his past statements that he wants to leverage his inventions into profits and that is indeed his right. But IH has clearly stated that their goal is to introduce innovative, clean and cheap energy to the world markets as quickly as possible, I am guessing that THAT is the primary difference between Rossi and IH and that is what is behind the lawsuit. The next few months will tell the tale as the differing points of view are tested in the courts.

    • Buck

      Not paying Rossi and filing patents in IH’s name is a strange way to achieve good.

      • Nixter

        I thought the same thing, we are guessing at this point, we will find out more as time passes. IH may be playing the roll of Robin Hood or the Sheriff of Nottingham. Hard to know which player to support without more facts. I am remaining neutral until I see the whole story.

    • LilyLover

      Saints and sinners reversed.

  • wpj

    So, is the June meeting on?

    • US_Citizen71

      lol

      • wpj

        Well, ML said a while ago that there was some problems between them.

        • e-dog

          I would book a ticket if Darden and Rossi were showing up!

          • SG

            Apparently Mr. Rossi has agreed to. Haven’t heard the same about Mr. Darden.

    • SG

      I vote yes!

  • e-dog

    Leonardo’s attorney John Annesser, Esq. JWA@silverlawgroup.com, 305-664-3955

    Anyone contacted this guy yet??? He issued the press release…

    • artefact

      Well.. I guess Krivit 😉

      • Da Phys

        Actually Krivit was right 🙂

        • wpj

          But for the wrong reasons

        • Michael W Wolf

          Krivit had it backwards. Will Krivit now admit LENR is real?

      • US_Citizen71

        If I were Krivit the last thing I would want to do is contact any attorney representing Rossi.

      • Michael W Wolf

        89 million will bankrupt IH. he had it backwards. Rossi didn’t run a con on a non working prototype. IH had no idea it would produce that kind of energy.

        • wpj

          Surely Woodford (UK people) have buckets of cash to invest if needed

    • Anon2012_2014

      Go to Google Earth and take a look at his office building next to the county vehicle parking lot for a good laugh. John is an associate out of school by 4 years. Good luck to them. The complaint was well written though.

  • e-dog

    Leonardo’s attorney John Annesser, Esq. JWA@silverlawgroup.com, 305-664-3955

    Anyone contacted this guy yet??? He issued the press release…

    • artefact

      Well.. I guess Krivit 😉

      • Da Phys

        Actually Krivit was right 🙂

        • wpj

          But for the wrong reasons

        • Michael W Wolf

          Krivit had it backwards. Will Krivit now admit LENR is real?

      • US_Citizen71

        If I were Krivit the last thing I would want to do is contact any attorney representing Rossi.

      • Michael W Wolf

        89 million will bankrupt IH. he had it backwards. Rossi didn’t run a con on a non working prototype. IH had no idea it would produce that kind of energy.

        • wpj

          Surely Woodford (UK people) have buckets of cash to invest if needed

        • clovis ray

          this is true, and the 89 mill was only a PAYMENT, on a much larger figure i would bet, hang tough Dr. R

          • Brent Buckner

            My reading is that the 89 million is the full payment respective of the test. Other sums would be expected to come from sales.

          • clovis ray

            HI, Brent so the total was 150,mill, and they had already handed over 61, mill to leo, is that correct, if so boy’ they did take a haircut, as well as getting kicked out, Dr. Rossi is back in control i feel a lot better.
            but then again that amount of money is just chicken feed, in respect to how much revenue the device can and will generate.

          • Brent Buckner

            I think they’d already handed over $11.5 million, not $61 million. (You might have seen a reference to $50 million – the claim is that amount was invested in IH, not an amount paid to Leonardo).

    • Anon2012_2014

      Go to Google Earth and take a look at his office building next to the county vehicle parking lot for a good laugh. John is an associate out of school by 4 years. Good luck to them. The complaint was well written though.

  • Fingers crossed this thing is for real.

  • radvar

    Contract performance lawsuits can sometimes just be a different conversational style. I believe Darden is honorable. I’m speculating that when all is revealed, it will turn out that IH moved a little to slow, and Rossi pulled the trigger a little too fast.

    • Buck

      how does that square with IH’s European patent filing ???

      • radvar

        badly

      • SG

        Well, IH may feel that they made an improvement to the underlying invention, and absent any agreement to assign that improvement back over to Leonardo, IH may have went ahead on their own with the new patent filing. With Mr. Rossi as co-inventor, both entities would jointly own any patent eventually granted.

    • LilyLover

      No, in the end Tom will realize that he was too coward to disobey his masters and his masters are evil.

  • LuFong

    If the rumors that we heard months ago about the COP being 20-80 are true, and IH had the numbers as well, then IH must have know they will have to pay the $89M. Could they have discovered something in the setup that led to erroneous readings in the meantime leading them to not pay? I’m finding it hard to believe that they just didn’t have the money.

    • artefact

      IF they have also invested cheaper into another competitor who also got huge COPs now then they maybe don’t want to pay. Rossi said a short time ago that there is a competitor who is not publicly known who is serious.

      • LuFong

        That’s a very good point. Perhaps they’ve improved Rossi’s technology as well and now want to claim it.

    • Andrew

      Remember that IH LLC was a startup. They don’t have that type of funds. This will bankrupt IH most likely. However Rossi will get his North America license back.

      • radvar

        That seems a likely motivation

        • e-dog

          and good solid speculation! We need the e-cat tech out in the public asap.. I hope this doesnt slow it down more.

        • bkrharold

          My feelings exactly. The only saving grace is that:-

          “Leonardo Corporation does not anticipate that there will be any delay in the commercial release of the E-Cat technology as a result of the lawsuit.”

      • LuFong

        Except if it indeed true, IH will have made a monumental mistake and they surely could come up with $100M. The licensing rights could very well be worth trillions. Something is wrong–we need to find out what IH’s position is.

        • radvar

          Do IH licenses include the eCat-X, or just the Lugano technology?

          Lugano tech can’t compete with the (purported) X tech.

        • LilyLover

          It’s not a mistake if it’s intentional.

          • LuFong

            And no regrets…

          • Mats002

            Yes akupaku – and let me add to that interaction between the entertainers, performers and the audience.

            The reaction of the audience do have impacts in this story, ie digging journalism and findings from experimenters like Parkhomov, MFMP et al.

          • We should also possibly remember that the future shape of the world probably hinges on whether or not a clean, cheap source of energy becomes available, and if so under what limitations.

          • nietsnie

            Exactly. And now that is obscured by skulduggery and opportunism by someone – hard to say who at this point.

          • HS61AF91

            synonymous with publicity stunt! Attention with a COP +5 to +50 integral in the stunt, not bad for LENR overall.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        IH LLC has financial backers who funded the startup and would surely be in the know of the contract with Rossi seeing as that is the whole “raison d’etre” of IH LLC. I see no reason to create IH LLC and then let it fail if a previously agreed contractual payment cannot be financed.

        IH LLC was created so that should Rossi fail and not deliver, IH LLC can be declared bankrupt and written of as an investment loss. Since Rossi has delivered I see no reason why LH or it’s backers shouldn’t pay.

        • radvar

          I think this is an important angle. Maybe IH was also designed to be able to go bankrupt and protect the investors if Rossi SUCCEEDED.

          A fuse, now perhaps burned out.

          Maybe the investors don’t think the licences are worth $89,000,000. When you’re rich, you don’t really have to make billions, you can just lounge around on your millions.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          Or, maybe: Rossi is lying and the reason they’re not paying is because he DIDN’T deliver.

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            Nah, don’t think that’s an option anymore.

          • Ged

            Then IH will counter sue and take Rossi for all he’s got, if that is true. And of Rossi knew he had nothing but lies, that would mean this is suicide on his part.

        • LilyLover

          IH was formed with the intent to bankrupt it either ways – thus slowing the E-Cats adoption.
          Rossi outsmarted IH masters.

  • e-dog

    This whole mess just points to the hugely glaringly obvious fact that Rossi is not a business man and should not be playing at one. Money seems to be on Rossi’s mind just as much as the e-cat tech, which seems to beholding up true progress. If Rossi truly believed in the power of the ecat money, fame, power, wealth should not be his concern, they would come. Detailed micro management has worked so far in developing his device but he needs to take his strangle hold off his invention and give it to the world.

    • e-dog

      It is turning out to be one of the great sagas of science history which is pretty cool… hope future generations get to hear it too!

      • Mats002

        Or it will be burried, left here for ions without no one knowing – except for our little peanut community 😉

        • wpj

          Thought you were going to bed! I switched off and then back on 5 mins later.

          • Mats002

            I will soon, ha ha!

        • LilyLover

          Don’t worry, even if the dragon fails us, I’ll take things in my own hands to sure that the Cats get to play.

    • clovis ray

      Or not.

    • MasterBlaster7

      ” If Rossi truly believed in the power of the ecat money, fame, power, wealth should not be his concern, they would come”

      ummmm…you should go read about Nicoli Tesla and how he got screwed by Edison and Westinghouse.

      • e-dog

        yeah I know… but I would think Rossi is way cooler than he is if he didnt do a tesla and keep all the fun stuff he was cooking up to himself.

        • MasterBlaster7

          keeping it to himself? He was broke. If he wouldn’t have relinquished the patents to Westinghouse…or at least renegotiated them…Tesla would have been rolling in money and able to finance all of his crazy dreams himself.

          • e-dog

            yes, tesla needed a business man

          • roseland67

            Westinghouse would have went broke as would all manufacturers of electric motors paying a royalty per kW on every motor made

          • LilyLover

            Perhaps would have been a good lesson for the Mothchilds.

      • roseland67

        Blaster,
        Nicola not Nicoli
        And Westinghouse and Tesla were very close it was Edison that screwed Tesla and then J.P. Morgan screwed all 3 of them.
        Read Empire of Light, you’ll finish it in a day and be amazed at the back stabbing cork screwing and dirty dealing that went on back then.

    • Zeddidus Zul Zorander

      Don’t see your point at all. The contract conditions seems quite clear, so I don’t see what bad business has to do with it. I would also venture that Rossi did not write the contract but some third party on his behalf. This contract will have been worded very carefully. One side is not honoring the contract so he has a legitimate case.

      Furthermore, I have not seen any evidence of Rossi focusing on money, fame, power or wealth. You should provide some proof of this.

    • wpj

      They had 5 days to pay after the report was presented and didn’t have the money. Never mind telling Woodford they had the IP.

    • kdk

      He has put 20 some years into this, but I don’t want to see it be more of the same-old same-old monopolizing and gouging.

  • artefact
  • Andrew

    I’m wondering (and it would be brilliant if true) if this is all an orchestrated PR stunt. Imagine inventor takes company to court over an impossible invention and wins…… Court approved conformation the Ecat work and all the media hoopla surrounding such a case…

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      Very very complicated, somewhat risky and a little bit strange way of promoting your product, but I suppose it could be true. A little bit too speculative for me though…

      • Andrew

        And yes I have read David Eddings novels

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          But did you read Terry Goodkind his novels 😉

  • Andrew

    I’m wondering (and it would be brilliant if true) if this is all an orchestrated PR stunt. Imagine inventor takes company to court over an impossible invention and wins…… Court approved conformation the Ecat work and all the media hoopla surrounding such a case…

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      Very very complicated, somewhat risky and a little bit strange way of promoting your product, but I suppose it could be true. A little bit too speculative for me though…

      • Andrew

        And yes I have read David Eddings novels

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          But did you read Terry Goodkind his novels 😉

  • Slad

    99. DARDEN, VAUGHN and CHEROKEE have deceptively created numerous foreign and domestic shell companies which they have, on more than one occasion, used to execute a classic “bait and switch” with ROSSI and LEONARDO, all while assuring Plaintiffs that they were actually just wholly owned holding entities and subsidiaries of CHEROKEE, and that CHEROKEE was still the true party in interest.

    • Ged

      We have seen Cherokee generating more spin off companies lately, so we’ll see what the court thinks.

  • Slad

    99. DARDEN, VAUGHN and CHEROKEE have deceptively created numerous foreign and domestic shell companies which they have, on more than one occasion, used to execute a classic “bait and switch” with ROSSI and LEONARDO, all while assuring Plaintiffs that they were actually just wholly owned holding entities and subsidiaries of CHEROKEE, and that CHEROKEE was still the true party in interest.

    • Ged

      We have seen Cherokee generating more spin off companies lately, so we’ll see what the court thinks.

  • Da Phys

    Poor Judge Cecilia M. Altonaga who will have to decide whether the E-cat is a true revolution or just a scam.
    No science, no COP… just a legal black or white decision.

    • Ged

      That’s why one calls in expert witnesses. The claims depend on data, so that data will be evaluated. Now, the IH stealing IP by patenting Rossi’s tech for themselves, those claims will just be legal black and white.

    • kdk

      She might decide that the case is better left to other courts, or there might be appeals to other courts.

  • Da Phys

    Poor Judge Cecilia M. Altonaga who will have to decide whether the E-cat is a true revolution or just a scam.
    No science, no COP… just a legal black or white decision.

    • Ged

      That’s why one calls in expert witnesses. The claims depend on data, so that data will be evaluated. Now, the IH stealing IP by patenting Rossi’s tech for themselves, those claims will just be legal black and white.

    • kdk

      She might decide that the case is better left to other courts, or there might be appeals to other courts.

  • Christina

    Oh, good grief!

    • bkrharold

      My feelings exactly. The only saving grace is that:-

      “Leonardo Corporation does not anticipate that there will be any delay in the commercial release of the E-Cat technology as a result of the lawsuit.”

  • radvar

    Apologies for dragging this up to the top…
    Hypothesis:
    > IH licenses only cover Lugano tech, not eCat-X tech
    ==> Key assumption
    > Lugano tech cannot compete with X tech
    > IH Lugano tech licenses are thus worthless
    > Rossi, IH and IH investors all know this
    ===> the X was a huge surprise to everyone
    > IH investors won’t fund IH for the $89M, are willing to let IH go bankrupt; they will be protected
    > Rossi is fine about ending the relationship, which is now just a drag
    > So Rossi goes to the nuclear options (well, low energy nuclear) to get it over with ASAP
    > IH won’t pay, will fold, the IH licenses will be terminated
    > The 8/17/15 Euro patent is just a side detail
    > Rossi moves forward with organizational structure he’s built around Leonardo, unencumbered by Lugano tech license obligations

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      That would be a much more logical explanation for IH’s behaviour. The eCat-X is the holy grail of energy production, so why should IH invest in a deal involving already obsolete technology that will never be able to compete with the new eCat-X?

      They didn’t cover this development in their contract and now are unwilling to pay Rossi 89 million for basically a worthless product. This then is probably exactly why IH LLC was created so now IH LLC will simply be a 11,5 million write off for the background financial backers.

      • Brent Buckner

        Rossi has told us that IH’s license rights did include the E-Cat X (cf. http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/02/21/industrial-heat-the-only-remaining-e-cat-licensee/ )

        I’ll put my guess on record that IH will make a claim that Leonardo does not have exclusive rights to the E-Cat X in such territories as Europe, claiming that it was substantially developed while Rossi was Chief Scientist at IH ( http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/01/27/rossi-confirms-position-at-industrial-heat-llc/ ).

        • kdk

          That sounds plausible to me. Thank you.

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          Could very well be that the source of their disagreement is in these territories. However it would also be depending on the wording of the contract. I still don’t see IH having a very strong case. I would very much appreciate a statement from IH at this point.

          • SG

            You will see their statement, in the form of a court filing.

      • kdk

        The holy grail of energy production is what is making the ufo’s go. I don’t think cold fusion has quite that sort of energy density yet, but I might be wrong. We’re talking about craft not more than 30 ft wide doing crazy stuff… the cold fusion is what we get while we still have a bunch of nutter terrorists running around on our planet. Don’t get me wrong, it’s more than enough to revolutionize the world, but it isn’t the grail, IMHO.

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          Craft doing crazy stuff would be the holy grail of artificial gravity. The eCat-X does fulfill my expectations of a holy grail seeing as you can scale up the technology up to almost any power requirement. Of course it cannot hold a candle to the power delivery of a certain dilithium crystal enhanced anti-matter based starship engine 😉

          • kdk

            It takes more than an E-CatX to power those things is what I’m saying.

    • deleo77

      Rossi may think of it as a drag. But as of now Leonardo doesn’t have any money. There is no money to commercialize any of Rossi’s technologies. Perhaps Rossi has been speaking to new investors, but this can all basically be seen as bad news. Rossi was counting on that payment from IH to fund Leonardo. Now Rossi and Darden will only speak through their attorneys. The IP could literally be tied up in litigation for years, and IH could countersue Rossi (this is likely IMO) making things even worse than they are now.

      • I think you (radvar and deleo77) are both as close to the mark on this sensational development as anyone can be expected to be at this still very early stage. Yes, IH will probably counter-sue. I had the impression that Tom Darden basically rescued Rossi from bankruptcy in return for a share in his IP as it was then and the issue would be around whether the eCat-X is sufficiently entangled with that original IP so as to give IH a claim on it as well. The only winners will be the lawyers, although its possible that Rossi’s is working on a “no-win-no-fees” basis. Whatever the outcome, Rossi will become either famous or infamous in the main stream media, who cannot possibly ignore LENR any longer. Oh dear!

        • SG

          Juries are generally sympathetic to the toils of inventors. I think Mr. Rossi, despite his storied background, might be viewed as the eccentric innovator out to improve and change the world.

        • Brent Buckner

          Perhaps IH will make the case that they, not Leonardo, own the IP respective of the E-Cat X, claiming that Rossi was acting as an employee/officer of IH when the E-Cat X was substantially developed (see http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/01/27/rossi-confirms-position-at-industrial-heat-llc/ )

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Unfortunately, your basic hypothesis is false:

      Dan C.
      March 20, 2016 at 7:16 AM
      Dear Andrea,

      There is some discussion and confusion on the blogs.
      For clarity, is Industrial Heat licensed for ALL E-cat products including E-catX and the E-cat Quark should they be F9>0.
      It’s your serve on the court-

      Warm regards,
      Dan C.

      Translate
      Andrea Rossi
      March 20, 2016 at 7:33 AM
      Dan C.:
      Yes.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        Well, there goes that theory.

        Still baffled why IH doesn’t come up with the money though…

        • Teemu Soilamo

          Occam’s razor: the product doesn’t work as advertised.

          • Buck

            Your razor doesn’t include how Rossi felt about IH’s filing a conflicting/predatory patent in Europe declaring IH as the IP owner.

            The product works, but the relationship with Darden/IH doesn’t.

          • radvar

            That was a while back, August ’15

          • Buck

            See my response below. . . . Rossi may have just waited to see how IH would follow through upon the contracted arrangement.

          • radvar

            Possibly…getting stranger and stranger though…

          • Buck

            You expected “not strange” from a revolutionary technology that will change how humanity works with energy.

            To be fair . . . I was hoping for “not strange”.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            The patent, however ill-advised, could have been done as a pre-emptive measure in case the tech worked. If you have a COP of 50, you damn well come up with the money. They’ve literally got their fingers on the mythical cornucopia.

          • Buck

            And that pre-emptive measure by IH could have reminded Rossi of how he was screwed with back in Italy. IH’s move showed lack of good intent with Rossi and Rossi waited for the better time to respond from a position of power . . . proof of a +50 COP.

          • EEStorFanFibb

            yup, now was the time for Rossi to file the suit. definitely not before the ERV report was completed and delivered.

          • SG

            But they also already have the knowledge of how it works. They might think they can keep their fingers on the cornucopia without paying for it.

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            That is what Wall Street bloodhounds do. Basically people are willing to murder for this technology seeing as it could make you the richest company in the history of the earth; possibly the richest company in the future as well.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            I hate humans.

          • Robert Ellefson

            Is there anybody truly surprised to learn that this tree, having been planted from seed, and nourished with greed, has produced a bitter fruit?

          • Michael W Wolf

            Then why does IH apply for patents as Rossi co-inventor?

          • Obvious

            That seems to be one of the problems. Dameron as an IH employee and co-inventor makes IH a part owner of IP.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            See my response below.

          • radvar

            Possibly, but what fun is that?

            Since I have to have SOME theory, I’m going back to the my idea of an Occam’s razor:
            1) IH investors hesitated (it’s complicated, and a lot of money)
            2) Rossi got impatient (well, is consitutionally impatient).

            Net: it’s a communications issue, and Rossi wants it to move faster. Sue today, kiss and make up tomorrow.

            Like high tech: Apple, Google, Samsung, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft chasing each other around in court while continuing to do massive partnership deals with each other.

          • US_Citizen71

            Yep it works better. The patent was filed at about the halfway point of the test, they knew it worked or not by then, they had their own measures and underlings watching. If they paid the $89 million they would not lose their license. My bet is they are not entitled to the E-CatX regardless of what Rossi has said on the JoNP.

          • Obvious

            It may be that if IH is assigned part ownership of IP, due to their employee being co-inventor, then they won’t need to pay for licenses.

          • SG

            Precisely. That is why IH probably worked feverishly to make some kind of improvement, and then filed with its own co-inventor. They named Mr. Rossi as co-inventor as well because otherwise it would have been a bit too obvious. Or, there is the possibility that Mr. Rossi actually was an employee of IH for some period of time–but under what kind of employment agreement?

          • Obvious

            Even though lawyers love to fight over every word in a contract, a judge typically puts considerable emphasis on the intent of a contract when making a ruling.

          • Brent Buckner

            Rossi claimed to have a role at IH (per http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/01/27/rossi-confirms-position-at-industrial-heat-llc/ ). We’ll see whether or not IH tries to make a case for ownership of IP related to that (e.g. claiming that Leonardo doesn’t own IP for the E-Cat X, that IH owns that IP).

          • Brent Buckner

            My guess is that IH will make the case that IH has worldwide rights to the E-Cat X, claiming that it was substantially developed while Rossi was acting as an employee or shareholder of IH (see: http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/01/27/rossi-confirms-position-at-industrial-heat-llc/ )

          • US_Citizen71

            That usually requires a contract agreement stating that your work is their IP, I doubt Rossi signed such an agreement. Also one needs to be paid in order to be an employee.

          • SG

            This will be a central issue in the dispute. There are potential “shop rights” that IH could also rely on, even if there was no formal employment agreement.

          • US_Citizen71

            The original contract and amendments should shed much on this aspect.

          • Brent Buckner

            I don’t think that has to be in the contract – at least there *used* to be a regime of “work done for hire”. Rossi stated that he was Chief Scientist of IH – I don’t think we know what that entailed in terms of any valuable considerations (it isn’t just a paycheque that can establish employment).

          • US_Citizen71

            But the central point is was he working for hire or just supervising the test.

          • Brent Buckner

            We’ll see if IH tries to make a case.

          • Brent Buckner

            13.1 (from http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf ) suggests to me that the Chief Scientist role was expected to cover more than supervising the test (as those services seem to me to be covered in the first sentence of 13.1 ).

          • US_Citizen71

            Separate agreement that has not been posted, hard to say. We will know in a few years. LOL

          • US_Citizen71

            Breaching their contract with Rossi in my opinion is not the best way to go about that. The breach will not help their case.

          • there is something that is not discussed in the filed complaint…
            reliability.

            industrialists are very sensible to reliability, and they prefer fair performance with solid reliability, rather than outstanding performance with poor reliability.
            they prefer COP=6 with MTBF 60days that COP=60 with MTBF=6days

            buzz I’ve heard is the report is bad, on reliability.
            buzz also says that any engineer know you need 2 years to make that kind of plant reliable,as any new product. that is just normal.

          • Josh G

            I was thinking about that, too. But in his suit, Rossi asserts that the ERV test shows that the e-cat meets all the requirements. I would be surprised if reliability was not part of the agreed-upon requirements.

          • I wonder if there is any set of circumstances that you wouldn’t interpret as confirming a ‘scam’?

        • Guru Khalsa

          IH does want to fund EcatX developement?

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            Clearly, but why?

          • Guru Khalsa

            Maybe IH can claim (real or not) low temp ecat co-development. But has no claims on the ecatx.

          • Brent Buckner

            Rossi wrote about developing the E-Cat X during the time he was working on the 1MW test. He wrote that he had a role at IH (cf. http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/01/27/rossi-confirms-position-at-industrial-heat-llc/ ). We’ll see if IH tries making a case.

          • Guru Khalsa

            Rossi claims IH shared his technology. There were several lenr companies in the IH portfolio. Maybe the sharing went both ways. In which case maybe Rossi benefitted from this to improve his tech, and IH may be able to make a case for shared IP.

          • Michael W Wolf

            For the same reason we wondered, why still go with the ecat if you have the ecatx? Maybe they think Rossi has no right to bring ecatx into the market if they don’t want it?

          • SG

            Do you mean does *not* want to?

          • Guru Khalsa

            Sorry about that my mind works quicker than my brain.

      • radvar

        Thanks (he says, to a large balloon bursting sound…)

      • If IH refused to make the final 1MW payment to Rossi, he would naturally reciprocate by withholding any outstanding IP. Or it might have been the other way round.

        Either way a license means little when you have no way to make product without the license owner. All Rossi is ‘admitting’ is that IH hold a license to distribute e-cat X products, NOT that they are entitled to use the IP as their own. IMHO, radvar’s hypothesis should not be discarded so quickly.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Yea, IH’s steak got turned into a hotdog.

  • Observer

    What Defkalion Green Technologies and Industrial Heat seem to have both learned to late, is that Andrea Rossi will cut you off and walk away if he sees a flaw in your character.

    The inventor is always a threat to investment since he is best situated to make the current invention obsolete. I believe, for this reason, the financiers always try to belittle or destroy the inventor. The usual method it to make him CTO (Chief Technical Officer), place him outside the chain of command, and, most importantly, do not give him enough money to act independently. Rossi’s business sense has been tempered in fires most of us can not imagine, and his mavric, do it alone style is not a weakness, but his greatest strength.

  • Observer

    What Defkalion Green Technologies and Industrial Heat seem to have both learned to late, is that Andrea Rossi will cut you off and walk away if he sees a flaw in your character.

    The inventor is always a threat to investment since he is best situated to make the current invention obsolete. I believe, for this reason, the financiers always try to belittle or destroy the inventor. The usual method it to make him CTO (Chief Technical Officer), place him outside the chain of command, and, most importantly, do not give him enough money to act independently. Rossi’s business sense has been tempered in fires most of us can not imagine, and his mavric, do it alone style is not a weakness, but his greatest strength.

    • In the world of venture/vulture capital it’s called “the shoot the inventor” stage… it takes a strong will and courage to stand your investors down as the guys at Apple, Microsoft, HP, Sun, and a few more have done… The CTO title is precisely bullshit or ‘vulture’ shit.

  • Zavod

    Perhaps Rossi is suing because with the positive results he has leverage to improve an agreement he made that he is not happy with. He is now threatening to take his baseball bat and ball and go home unless he gets that better deal he wanted but did not get on the first go-round of negotiations. He, no doubt, asked for more but had to settle, but now he has leverage. The suit may be real but it is really just a large stick used for leverage.

  • Zavod

    Perhaps Rossi is suing because with the positive results he has leverage to improve an agreement he made that he is not happy with. He is now threatening to take his baseball bat and ball and go home unless he gets that better deal he wanted but did not get on the first go-round of negotiations. He, no doubt, asked for more but had to settle, but now he has leverage. The suit may be real but it is really just a large stick used for leverage.

    • BillH

      A $100.5M pay off and potential royalties exceeding $1BN, AR should snap their hand off! Not to mention the Nobel Prize that would undoubtedly follow.

  • LilyLover

    22 Days ago:
    “When the establishment realized that they could not backstab Rossi,
    even using good boy Tom, especially after E-Cat X, they are now trying
    to buy all the LENR related IP so that hopefully some patent somewhere,
    vaguely overlaps with E-Cat X core claims so that they may try to use
    “connections” and political power to marginalize Rossi and Leonardo
    Corp.

    There is no good way to play dirty. Thence the patent-buy-up
    spree. Not saying Tom is corrupt, but he might want to protect his
    family from the “Masters of the Universe”.

    As it stands, the
    golden goose Hot Cat that IH owns IP of has become proving grounds for
    Rossi’s credibility. In the process of trying to “use” Rossi, Rossi has
    “used” IH resources to become unkillable leader that could bring the
    E-Cat X to the masses, despite Darden.”

  • LilyLover

    22 Days ago:
    “When the establishment realized that they could not backstab Rossi,
    even using good boy Tom, especially after E-Cat X, they are now trying
    to buy all the LENR related IP so that hopefully some patent somewhere,
    vaguely overlaps with E-Cat X core claims so that they may try to use
    “connections” and political power to marginalize Rossi and Leonardo
    Corp.

    There is no good way to play dirty. Thence the patent-buy-up
    spree. Not saying Tom is corrupt, but he might want to protect his
    family from the “Masters of the Universe”.

    As it stands, the
    golden goose Hot Cat that IH owns IP of has become proving grounds for
    Rossi’s credibility. In the process of trying to “use” Rossi, Rossi has
    “used” IH resources to become unkillable leader that could bring the
    E-Cat X to the masses, despite Darden.”

  • Guru Khalsa

    One good thing about all this. The media won’t stay silent anymore.

    • kdk

      It will take more than a court fight to get the mainstream media involved, but it will make them more likely to want to report on it. If it does get there, pay attention to their spin on it, depending on where in the world you are.

      • Guru Khalsa

        It allows them to report on cold fusion without actually commenting on whether it is real or not. It may not happen next week but I think cold fusion as a story is to hot to resist.

  • Guru Khalsa

    One good thing about all this. The media won’t stay silent anymore.

    • kdk

      It will take more than a court fight to get the mainstream media involved, but it will make them more likely to want to report on it.

      • Guru Khalsa

        It allows them to report on cold fusion without actually commenting on whether it is real or not. It may not happen next week but I think cold fusion as a story is to hot to resist.

  • Axil Axil

    I have a feeling that Mr. Fulvio Fabiani has contributed to the development of the E-Cat in a big way and now that he is an IH employee, his status as a E-Cat developer gives IH a reason to claim a part of Rossi’s IP. Rossi has always said that his team is a major part of E-Cat development. Maybe, that team, the members of the team and the company that these people work for should get a part of that IP.

    • Obvious

      If he couldn’t have done it without his team (he may regret saying such things) then they may rightly be co-inventors.
      I would keep an eye on those comments on JoNP.

    • SG

      Yes, IH are well within their rights to hire their own engineers and make improvements to the tech. We don’t know whether the license agreement obligates IH to assign-back to Leonardo any improvements made. Mr. Rossi’s granted patents might be “blocking patents,” but maybe not. Patents can be designed-around. IH may come up with better ways of doing things. With the relationship between IH and Leonardo clearly on the rocks, we might end up with two well-funded entities racing and competing to bring LENR to the masses.

      • US_Citizen71
        • Brent Buckner

          Per the last sentence of 13.4, I don’t think IH has any obligation to assign to Leonardo any improvements made by IH (per the preamble, IH is the “Company”).

          • SG

            Agreed. IH owns its own improvements as expressly set forth in the written agreement. This explains why IH is filing their own patents.

            All of Mr. Rossi’s (Leonardo’s) improvements (e.g., e-CatX) also fall within the scope of the original license.

            IH will have some strong counterclaims.

          • BillH

            I read this as totally the other way, IH may not have control over the E-CAT IP All versions, but they would still have exclusive production rights in all their licensed domains.

          • SG

            What you say is correct, and doesn’t contradict my statement. The agreement states that IH will have a license to all versions and improvements of the e-CAT. Later on in the clause it states that IH (the Company) will own its own improvements.

  • Given the added drama to this press release we should really get down to the serious topics such as which actress plays the geek goddess in Cold Fusion, the movie. Already I am taking flak out of the Vortex for suggesting it should be Charlize Theron instead of Scarlette Johannson, although I do give Ava the robot from Ex Machina a strong chance… here’s more http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2016/04/06/rossi-e-cat-press-release/

    • LilyLover

      This is how the banking bandits and oil-slick strikes. Force IH to obey or else Cherokee underwater. The players are haughty establishment vs naughty Rossi.
      Internet makes Rossi win.

  • Given the added drama to this press release we should really get down to the serious topics such as which actress plays the geek goddess in Cold Fusion, the movie. Already I am taking flak out of the Vortex for suggesting it should be Charlize Theron instead of Scarlette Johannson, although I do give Ava the robot from Ex Machina a strong chance… here’s more http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2016/04/06/rossi-e-cat-press-release/

  • Brent Buckner

    My reading is that the 89 million is the full payment respective of the test. Other sums would be expected to come from sales.

  • BillH

    At best this is a wasted year, and no products released into any markets where IH has an exclusive license. I’m not sure IH should be characterised as the villains in this story, let’s hear what they have to say first.

  • Antimondialiste

    we will have DIY e-cat before they can sell one industrial e-cat.

  • Robert Ellefson

    Is there anybody truly surprised to learn that this tree, having been planted from seed, and nourished with greed, has produced a bitter fruit?

  • BillH

    The worst possible case would be that the 1 year test showed excess heat for extended periods of time but was found to be unreliable over the duration of the test. AR then tried to convince them that the E-Cat X was the way forward. The test having been deemed unsatisfactory by IH, they were then unwilling to fund AR further on a new unproven technology. Big split, end of story.

    Since this is at odds with AR’s previously stated relationship with IH we can assume someone was not being exactly truthful.

    • US_Citizen71

      According to the license agreement COP only had to be 4.

      • BillH

        Yeah, I saw that. It’s interesting to note that the 1MW plant shown is the 52 reactor 20KW version, whereas the test was completed with a x4 250KW version, this might have something to do with it?

        • US_Citizen71

          The multi-year delay by IH is likely the reason for the change of the layout on the plant. But, you may have a point the plant tested did have different specs than the contract laid out. I wonder if there was an amendment to cover that.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      No, the worst possible scenario would be there was no excess heat.

      • BillH

        I discount this because that would have been found on day one of the test.

  • Pierre Beaulnes

    Frank, I think we all need some kind of insight on all of this from you…
    What a start for a disruptive change in paradigm for human civilisation !

    • Frank Acland

      I’m a bit short on insight right now, still reading the documents!

      • psi2u2

        We look forward your analysis, Frank, when you’ve had a chance to digest all the documents.

      • Patrick Ellul

        What documentS?? We’ve only seen one so far. Did someone obtain the other attachments?

      • I’m afraid Frank, the press now have the elements of an international CF story. My guess is this is about to go bigtime. I wouldn’t be surprised if 60 Minutes will now be ready to pick up the “Cold Fusion is Hot Again” story, though they might change the title to “Corporate Greed is at it Again”.

  • Pierre Beaulnes

    Frank, I think we all need some kind of insight on all of this from you…
    What a start for a disruptive change in paradigm for human civilisation !

    • Frank Acland

      I’m a bit short on insight right now, still reading the documents!

      • documentS, plural?

      • psi2u2

        We look forward your analysis, Frank, when you’ve had a chance to digest all the documents.

      • Patrick Ellul

        What documentS?? We’ve only seen one so far. Did someone obtain the other attachments?

      • I’m afraid Frank, the press now have the elements of an international CF story. My guess is this is about to go bigtime. I wouldn’t be surprised if 60 Minutes will now be ready to pick up the “Cold Fusion is Hot Again” story, though they might change the title to “Corporate Greed is at it Again”.

      • Bayani

        According to section 3(c) of the licence agreement, IH will pay Rossi when the Guaranteed performance has been achieved within five days folllowing the 350 days of operation. On March 29, the ERV report showed. So counting from March 29 to April 5 (the day the civil complaint is filed) that’s 5 business days.

        Is this just coincidence that a civil complaint is filed immediately after 5 days? I was hoping it would take a lot of time to write a complain.

        Also, According to section 5 of the licence agreement, Guaranteed performance will not be deemed achieved unless written confirmation is received by the company (IH) and at the end it says if the guaranteed is not achieved, IH shall not be required to pay. Am I to understand that IH dont have to pay Rossi as long as IH doesn’t confirmed that the Guaranteed performance is achieved? I’m saying IH still has the the decision whether Guaranteed performance is achieved or not …. regardless of what ERV reported.

        In this case, I think IH made a decision that the Guaranteed performance is not achieved eventhough the ERV report was positive and so they don’t have to fulfill the 3rd payment according to the license agreement.

  • Job001

    The great news is, “Lawyers fight over SOMETHING, not nothing.” Thereby LENR is NOW SOMETHING worth fighting for!

    • cashmemorz

      The point of the court fight is not if LENR is positive or not but who owns what in the work place. THe “what” that is owned is secondary or even too small in this case to matter much.

      • Job001

        Incorrect, the fight happens when it is worth paying for. I’ve seen this hundreds of times.

      • Guru Khalsa

        Legally you may be correct, but the reality is, the important part to everybody who has been following this story is ‘they wouldn’t be suing if it doesn’t work.

    • deleo77

      We haven’t seen IH’s response yet. They may claim that there is nothing and that is why a payment wasn’t made.

      • Job001

        IH more likely can be judged “In breach of contract by not paying” and risk losing it all.

      • SG

        IH wouldn’t be filing their own patents if they believed there is nothing. And, based on the written license agreement, IH owns any improvements that they make.

    • kdk

      That and the COP of 60 are what I took away from it, and the sort of rosy relationship I imagined between IH and Rossi isn’t exactly true.

      Rossi was acquitted of the crimes that people routinely bring up to smear his character.

  • Job001

    The great news is, “Lawyers fight over SOMETHING, not nothing.” Thereby LENR is NOW SOMETHING worth fighting for!

    • cashmemorz

      The point of the court fight is not if LENR is positive or not but who owns what in the work place. THe “what” that is owned is secondary or even too small in this case to matter much.

      • Job001

        Incorrect, the fight happens when it is worth paying for. I’ve seen this hundreds of times.

      • Guru Khalsa

        Legally you may be correct, but the reality is, the important part to everybody who has been following this story is ‘they wouldn’t be suing if it doesn’t work.

    • deleo77

      We haven’t seen IH’s response yet. They may claim that there is nothing and that is why a payment wasn’t made.

      • Job001

        IH more likely can be judged “In breach of contract by not paying” and risk losing it all.

      • SG

        IH wouldn’t be filing their own patents if they believed there is nothing. And, based on the written license agreement, IH owns any improvements that they make.

    • kdk

      That and the COP of 60 are what I took away from it, and the sort of rosy relationship I imagined between IH and Rossi isn’t exactly true.

  • Guest

    My guess is that IH woke up and realized that with Fabiani and Penon being old pals of Rossi, and Rossi being a convicted scammer, the test results might be a bit suspect; so they balked at paying the 89M and Rossi sued, hoping to get some go-away money out of them.

    • Pierre Beaulnes

      No. Not it. IH HAS filled a patent. There IS something to fight about.

      • psi2u2

        Very good point. I think that fact substantially resolves this question. Why would IH apply for a patent based even in part on Rossi’s ideas, if Rossi is a scammer?

    • Job001

      A better theory is you have skin in the FF game and wish to delay LENR until you can unload your position. Otherwise, your ancient incorrect cherry picked slander history is irrelevant to this situation.

  • LilyLover

    If they were that “responsible”, they’d not have allowed this situation to develop in the first place.

  • psi2u2

    Billy my friend, I think you are right.

    and so it begin….

    • LilyLover

      Having to look towards China for deliverence, should make us reevaluate where we went wrong as a nation.

  • catfish

    Ultimately IH’s defense is either that the ecat does not work as described, which means the whole saga of “Does it really work” goes on, or they’re arguing over patents and whether they owe 89 million. If it’s the latter you hardly need a verification report (not to put any aspersion on the “ERV” but it certainly seems like there’s a good chance Rossi went with someone he already knew). So he picked his test site, picked his tester, and IH was left footing a bill for 89 mill?

    I still hope Ecat is real, but that is fishy by any standard.

    “One of these days in your travels, a guy is going to show you a brand-new deck of cards on which the seal is not yet broken. Then this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the jack of spades jump out of this brand-new deck of cards and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not accept this bet, because as sure as you stand there, you’re going to wind up with an ear full of cider.” -Sky Masterson, from ‘Guys and Dolls’

    • Robert Dorr

      They jointly accepted who the ERV was going to be, and he picked the site because I.H. couldn’t come up with one. I.H. had a chance to control the situation if they had wanted to, it wasn’t all up to Rossi.

      • catfish

        We only have Rossi’s side of the complaint right now.

        • Robert Dorr

          I just don’t think that Rossi would subject himself to a court of law if he wasn’t pretty damn confident of the ERV’s findings and the high COP values and his ability to back it up. I guess we’ll find out, eventually.

          • catfish

            he has nothing to lose.

    • Job001

      Slander is not science, nor is slander metaphorical stories.

      Let the lawyers fight. A more likely explanation/theory for what is occurring is huge payments/moneys are available to delay LENR from the FF owners who are unloading positions.

      This has real historical precedence in the drug industry and many other fields. Smart money gets out early.
      Example, one of many; Rockefeller owners just sold out Exxon Mobil.

      • A larger game seems quite likely. This would automatically mean that IH is the tool of the energy cabals, and may have been so since its inception. The minimum gain for whoever is really controlling IH would be delay, while there is also the possibility they may be able to bankrupt Rossi and seize control of e-cat X IP through the courts. A win-win situation for the banksters, while literally everybody else loses.

        • BillH

          That would only be the case if you were looking from a purely US-centric point of view.

  • Job001

    A better theory is you have skin in the FF game and wish to delay LENR until you can unload your position. Otherwise, your ancient incorrect cherry picked slander history is irrelevant to this situation.

  • SG

    You will see their position, in their soon-to-be-filed response to the complaint and counterclaims.

  • psi2u2

    Very good point. I think that fact substantially resolves this question. Why would IH apply for a patent based even in part on Rossi’s ideas, if Rossi is a scammer?

  • catfish

    http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf

    this guy may constitute a 3rd party by some definition, but objective?

  • SG

    After reviewing the complaint and the license agreement, here is what I think is happening. As expressly set forth in the license agreement, IH owns improvements that they make. We also know that they have full knowledge of how the original e-Cat works. IH probably feels that they can take their improved version of the e-Cat to the market without violating Leonardo’s IP. And therefore, they made a calculated decision not to make the 3rd payment of $89 million, and probably are going to claim that Mr. Rossi is somehow in breach of the agreement. As the case works its way through the court system for the next few years, IH will go to market with their “improved” version. Just my present speculation.

  • SG

    After reviewing the complaint and the license agreement, here is what I think is happening. As expressly set forth in the license agreement, IH owns improvements that they make. We also know that they have full knowledge of how the original e-Cat works. IH probably feels that they can take their improved version of the e-Cat to the market without violating Leonardo’s IP. And therefore, they made a calculated decision not to make the 3rd payment of $89 million, and probably are going to claim that Mr. Rossi is somehow in breach of the agreement. As the case works its way through the court system for the next few years, IH will go to market with their “improved” version. Just my present speculation.

    • Chris Marshalk

      Interesting viewpoint. I’d also like to see what the defence is to Rossi’s submitted court papers. You need to see this http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf

      • BillH

        Interesting document, I just read through it! Sec 13.4 would clearly show that E-Cat X development is clearly covered by this agreement. It would appear that AR has taken this action because IH have failed to hand over the $10M held in Escrow to be distributed on confirmation of a successful test.

        • SG

          As I understand, the $10M was handed over. What is in dispute is that the third payment of $89M was not handed over. I’m surprised Mr. Rossi didn’t insist that the $89M be escrowed as well. Had that happened, he would likely be in possession of the money by now.

          • BillH

            My mistake, I think you are correct, $11.5M is still a tidy sum

    • BillH

      A court injunction might prevent any production in areas of the World where IH has exclusive rights, including E-Cat X, for reasons I have stated previously. In any case the ERV and the client would have to give evidence and the company and location would be revieled, along with whether the plant is still running.

  • LilyLover

    Perhaps would have been a good lesson for the Mothchilds.

  • Matt Sevrens

    God damn it.

  • Job001

    Slander is not science, nor is slander metaphorical stories.

    Let the lawyers fight. A more likely explanation/theory for what is occurring is huge payments/moneys are available to delay LENR from the FF owners who are unloading positions.

    This has real historical precedence in the drug industry and many other fields. Smart money gets out early.
    Example, one of many; Rockefeller owners just sold out Exxon Mobil.

    • A larger game seems likely. This would automatically mean that IH is the tool of the energy cabals, and may have been so since its inception. The minimum gain for whoever is really controlling IH would be delay, while there is also the possibility they may be able to bankrupt Rossi and seize control of e-cat X IP through the courts. A win-win situation for the banksters, while literally everybody else loses.

  • Matt Sevrens

    God damn it.

  • Matt Sevrens

    “Embracing failure as well as success is important, because we learn from both. Unfortunately, there is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector.”

  • Matt Sevrens

    “Embracing failure as well as success is important, because we learn from both. Unfortunately, there is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector.”

    • BillH

      Never embrace failure, it is the bastard child of ignorance:-)

  • Brent Buckner

    Yes, I should have written “officer” not “shareholder”. Rossi did claim to be Chief Scientist at IH ( per http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/01/27/rossi-confirms-position-at-industrial-heat-llc/ ) as contemplated in Section 13.1 of the License Agreement ( http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf ).

    • Rene

      Indeed, it would be most unfortunate if Rossi was an officer of IH.

  • Rod

    Sadly, my Star Wars analogy that I posted about several weeks back in another thread on this forum is becoming a reality. Here’s what I posted:
    —–
    “With the lack of any real positive news, I’ll throw this out there. There’s a real life Star Wars playing out here in the quest for LENR. The dark side and the light side of the Force are real in this drama! It’s a simple analogy.

    Many of us have always assumed that IH (and Darden) was soundly aligned to the light side (Rossi and friends). What if IH has always existed from the beginning to control, disrupt, obstruct, and even quelch any progress for LENR? With the money, industries, and countries that would be affected when LENR is a reality with actual products, would it be too much of a stretch to assume that the dark side doesn’t have agents and moles firmly planted on the light side? If the dark side controls IH, could they also control Hydro Fusion too? Maybe Jedi Rossi is in way over his head on this one.

    IH and Darden control the ERV and any details from it. They also control any distribution of the E-Cat in the biggest markets. I think we all would like for IH to release details from the ERV, even if preliminary, just to give us believers hope that IH is indeed aligned to the light side, and that the light side will eventually triumph over the dark side.

    This may all be fantasy, but like Cold Fusion, who says this is impossible?”
    —–

    Here’s a fun one… ‘Darden’ is an anagram for ‘Dad Ren’ (as in Kylo Ren). As Fox Mulder would say, ‘Trust No One.’ Lol!

    Even if IH eventually shows their alliance to the light side, my point is that the dark side has unlimited resources to disrupt LENR progress. There are strong forces that don’t want LENR to happen. ‘Trust No One’ is still valid.

    • The money changers are not about to let this technology out of the bottle for the good of humanity. They must block this technology to finish their plans for the 1 world government.

    • Josh G

      I have been worried about this possibility, too. Wait and see at this point.

      Another way they could try to derail it is to buy a unit and stage some kind of industrial ‘accident’ with the e-cat involving planted nuclear byproducts. Scare anyone from buying it and bring in the regulatory agencies to outlaw LENR tech. or create an onerous regulatory burden…

  • Rod

    Sadly, my Star Wars analogy that I posted about several weeks back in another thread on this forum is becoming a reality. Here’s what I posted:
    —–
    “With the lack of any real positive news, I’ll throw this out there. There’s a real life Star Wars playing out here in the quest for LENR. The dark side and the light side of the Force are real in this drama! It’s a simple analogy.

    Many of us have always assumed that IH (and Darden) was soundly aligned to the light side (Rossi and friends). What if IH has always existed from the beginning to control, disrupt, obstruct, and even quelch any progress for LENR? With the money, industries, and countries that would be affected when LENR is a reality with actual products, would it be too much of a stretch to assume that the dark side doesn’t have agents and moles firmly planted on the light side? If the dark side controls IH, could they also control Hydro Fusion too? Maybe Jedi Rossi is in way over his head on this one.

    IH and Darden control the ERV and any details from it. They also control any distribution of the E-Cat in the biggest markets. I think we all would like for IH to release details from the ERV, even if preliminary, just to give us believers hope that IH is indeed aligned to the light side, and that the light side will eventually triumph over the dark side.

    This may all be fantasy, but like Cold Fusion, who says this is impossible?”
    —–

    Here’s a fun one… ‘Darden’ is an anagram for ‘Dad Ren’ (as in Kylo Ren). As Fox Mulder would say, ‘Trust No One.’ Lol!

    Even if IH eventually shows their alliance to the light side, my point is that the dark side has unlimited resources to disrupt LENR progress. There are strong forces that don’t want LENR to happen. ‘Trust No One’ is still valid.

    • john M

      Will Dr. Rossi decide to release full information on the “secret sauce” to secure the advancement of LENR. Will the forces of evil keep him quiet with their NDA. Who needs novels.

    • The money changers are not about to let this technology out of the bottle for the good of humanity. They must block this technology to finish their plans for the 1 world government.

    • Josh G

      I have been worried about this possibility, too. Wait and see at this point.

      Another way they could try to derail it is to buy a unit and stage some kind of industrial ‘accident’ with the e-cat involving planted nuclear byproducts. Scare anyone from buying it and bring in the regulatory agencies to outlaw LENR tech. or create an onerous regulatory burden…

  • Course

    Rossi’s law firm Silver Law Group is third rate. Local Florida firm, there is only one lawyer with three associates. And they do family law which is unheard of for serious commercial litigators.

    John Annesser, the lawyer named in his filing is an associate who has only been practicing law for 3 years according to his profile on Avvo.com

    This move smacks of desperation. I imagine IH is filing a lawsuit accusing Rossi of fraud and breach of contract, and this is Rossi’s attempt to quickly file something first.

  • HHiram

    OK, so what is the relationship between Fabiani and Rossi? The lawsuit filing makes it sound like Fabian (and Best) are employees of IH and Darden.

    But I recall Fabiani saying about six months ago that what he had witnessed with the E-Cat X (hot cat, quark, whatever) was miraculous.

    If IH thinks this is fraudulent technology or the test was a failure, why would Fabiani have been so enthusiastic about it?

  • Bayani

    According to section 3(c) of the licence agreement, IH will pay Rossi when the Guaranteed performance has been achieved within five days folllowing the 350 days of operation. On March 29, the ERV report showed. So counting from March 29 to April 5 (the day the civil complaint is filed) that’s 5 business days.

    Is this just coincidence that a civil complaint is filed immediately after 5 days? I was hoping it would take a lot of time to write a complain.

    Also, According to section 5 of the licence agreement, Guaranteed performance will not be deemed achieved unless written confirmation is received by the company (IH) and at the end it says if the guaranteed is not achieved, IH shall not be required to pay. Am I to understand that IH dont have to pay Rossi as long as IH doesn’t confirmed that the Guaranteed performance is achieved? I’m saying IH still has the the decision whether Guaranteed performance is achieved or not …. regardless of what ERV reported.

    In this case, I think IH made a decision that the Guaranteed performance is not achieved eventhough the ERV report was positive.

    • BillH

      Oh, the wording of the agreement is part of the contentious issue between AH and IH? Is there a summary anywhere?

    • Robert Dorr

      That’s the reason for the ERV. The ERV’s report would have stated whether a COP of 6 or better was achieved and all agreed to performance issues were met . Rossi states in his legal filing that all performance issues were met for the Guaranteed Performance in writing. So according to Rossi, case closed. So all that I.H. can say is that they don’t agree with the report, So I guess that’s what a jury will decide, did Rossi meet the Guarantee of Performance or didn’t he.

    • Robert Dorr

      Maybe I.H. will try to show that when Rossi was alone in the container all those nights he was actually shoveling coal into those boilers to bring the COP up.

  • HiggsField

    If AR is suing IH it is very likely that the test results are not there support his claims, and IH therefore has no interest in making further payments. This is a preemptive strike on the part of AR to keep his little gig going. This is very bad news for LENR, and its my belief that there will never be anything “real” from Rossi. Personally I’ve never gotten past the wet steam issue.

    • I wonder if there is any set of circumstances that you wouldn’t interpret as confirming a ‘scam’?

      • bachcole

        I don’t think that HiggsField is a skeptopath. This fight is very bad for LENR. The only reason I can see for Rossi to sue IH is that IH refuses to pay. And the only reason I can see that IH refuses to pay is that the test was a bomb (excuse the pun). But it is all a big cloud of uncertainty at this point. All I can see for certain is that they are fighting. I don’t know who started it or what it really is about. Anyone who says that they have certainty here is probably fooling themselves. But I would love to hear from them anyway.

      • HiggsField

        If it looks like a duck it’s probably a duck. I’m not saying LENR isn’t real, but I do have a problem with the fact that there has been zero conclusive evidence that Rossi has a working system, zero. I have issues with everyone of the so call independent studies/reports going right back to the very beginning. These problems are well documented, and in my opinion a show stopper. We have not yet heard from IH. If this thing goes to litigation we will hear their side of things, and I’m sure all the same issues that have tainted Rossi’s claims will be present in their presentation of the facts. If IH is indeed walking away from Rossi then that is very significant, after all they have been very close to this thing for an extended period of time. A working system is worth a great deal of money, it looks like IH is giving up on Rossi. That said, it’s going to be very hard for some folks here to accept that they may, just may, have been duped. We are entering the final chapter of this saga and I can not wait for the movie to come out, but we do not yet know if the ending will be happy or sad.

        • Manuel Cruz

          Your theory has a fatal flaw.
          If the E-Cat didn’t work, the test wouldn’t have lasted one year. They would have stopped it after one month.

          • HiggsField

            So far we have only heard tit bits from AR about the test. Sadly we may not see the test report, but if this does go to trial we may finally be able to pull back the curtain and see if the emperor has on any cloths.

  • HHiram

    Some thoughts in response to concerns that IH is severing ties with Rossi due to the E-Cat being a fraud:

    1. Why would IH file a patent on a technology that they thought was fraudulent?
    2. Why would they have paid $10 million after the 24-hours demo several years ago – did they get scammed so easily at that time?
    3. Why would Rossi claim so boldly in a court filing (after a whole year of F9 F9 F9) that “by all accounts” the COP is ~50? Surely the court might demand a demonstration of such an extreme claim.
    4. Why would IH agree to a ERV and/or customer they couldn’t trust or didn’t vet? They agreed to use Penon from the start. And who is this Mr. Best? Does he agree or disagree with Rossi, Fabiani, and Penon?

    On the other hand, some difficult questions remain:

    1. If LENR is real and the E-Cat works, why fight over $89 million? It is nothing compared to the money to be made. The time lost to the legal battle could cost more in sales revenue than $89 million.
    2. Why didn’t IH insist on an outside firm (not individual) to do the year-long evaluation? And why did the testing period need to be a year, when one month or even one week would easily be enough?
    3. If Rossi really wants the funds and to get the E-Cat into production, is a lawsuit against IH really the best option? This option destroys his relationship with Darden and Cherokee, and further discredits his already bad reputation.
    4. Why not release the ERV report now? Who is preventing this?
    5. If Rossi is not a fraud, why does he not do an immediate public demonstration of the technology?

    These are just the beginning of the many questions we need answers to.

    • sam

      What do they get for 89 million?
      This is the first time I have heard
      of this part of the agreement.

      • wpj

        This was the payment on successful completion of the 350 day test. The report was always for internal consumption to verify COP of 6+.

        First payment 1.5m on signing an agreement. Second 10m after a verified 24h test. Third payment 89m after 350 day test with COP 6+. Payment after 5 days. Total 100.5m.

        The client also paid 1000/day for the energy consumed.

        • So the first payments total $11.5M, which may represent Leonardo’s total resources at this point as outside investments went to IH. A legal battle could easily take a big chunk out of that, leaving very little to develop e-cat X to a product-ready state, let alone arrange production and safety certification.

          If that is the intention of forcing Rossi into suing, then he needs to come up with another game plan quite quickly.

          • Omega Z

            Venture Capital squeezing the life out of the inventor is quite common. In fact it is the Norm. I have/was hoping Rossi had dodged the bullet, but apparently he hasn’t.

            Note Robert Godes only retains 5% ownership of Brillouin Energy and spends his time trying to find investors who do not want shares, but are content with possible repayment should a product evolve. Good luck with that.

            This is the way it’s done. This is how you delay. This is how Al Gore and Bill Gates can say with confidence that maybe in 15 years. They helped create the game book that keeps them and their associates in positions of wealth and power.

          • cashmemorz

            If AR wins the court battle investors will throw money at AR. May be that is AR strategy?

  • James Rice

    What I don’t get is that the license agreement does not require transferral of ecat I.P. To IH, but that is what Rossi has done by assigning the US patent to IH, and allowing the European patent to be applied for by IH.

    • Heath

      I think I get it after reading the agreement (perhaps): Darden’s investment in competitors and the European patent: direct violation of the agreement. The question is why. Was the Hot-Cat not enough? Was it not really performing as reported? Again not a truly independent ERV. I will be interested in IH’s response. Part of me says this is Rossi’s attempt at a correction for a couple of things that need to be straightened out. The other says Darden downplaying of this reactor was for a reason. I’d like to hear that reason and if the relationship will really go forward. Was the 350 day test just legally mandatory and that’s why everyone went along with it even though the relationship had already disintegrated? BTW I am disappointed with this news and am just trying to read into the headline.

      • sam

        What do they get for 89 million?
        This is the first time I have heard
        of this part of the agreement.

        • wpj

          This was the payment on successful completion of the 350 day test. The report was always for internal consumption to verify COP of 6+.

          First payment 1.5m on signing an agreement. Second 10m after a verified 24h test. Third payment 89m after 350 day test with COP 6+. Payment after 5 days. Total 100.5m.

          The client also paid 1000/day for the energy consumed.

          • fritz194

            Schumpeter rulez ;-))
            Lots of interesting innovations died this way.
            Hopefully, the E-Cat ist too big to do “the Schumpeter”.
            we´ll see.

          • fritz194

            Or to tell it with my own words – the commercial success of an idea increases with the number of times it was stolen 😉

          • So the first payments total $11.5M, which may represent Leonardo’s total resources at this point as outside investments went to IH. A legal battle could easily take a big chunk out of that, leaving very little to develop e-cat X to a product-ready state, let alone arrange production.

            If that is the intention of forcing Rossi into suing, then he needs to come up with another game plan quite quickly.

          • Omega Z

            Venture Capital squeezing the life out of the inventor is quite common. In fact it is the Norm. I have/was hoping Rossi had dodged the bullet, but apparently he hasn’t.

            Note Robert Godes only retains 5% ownership of Brillouin Energy and spends his time trying to find investors who do not want shares, but are content with possible repayment should a product evolve. Good luck with that.

            This is the way it’s done. This is how you delay. This is how Al Gore and Bill Gates can say with confidence that maybe in 15 years. They helped create the game book that keeps them and their associates in positions of wealth and power.

          • cashmemorz

            If AR wins the court battle investors will throw money at AR. May be that is AR strategy?

      • Darden seems to be playing hardball. It’s possible that the strategy is to withhold funds from Rossi in an attempt to force him to share the e-cat X IP, as this renders all previous versions more or less obsolete and their license to distribute it is therefore a poor return on their investment so far.

        The latter would certainly be the case if Rossi is claiming that e-cat X isn’t covered by the original agreements, and is trying to get a new deal, or even to cut IH out of e-cat X entirely.

        • Omega Z

          According to a recent Rossi post to said question, IH has rights to the E-cat X and Q as well, as it is a continuation of the Hot-cat R&D cycle. Of course, you don’t pay, you don’t play.

          • They may have ‘rights’ to e-cat X but these aren’t much use if you don’t know how to make one.

          • Omega Z

            That knowledge would be forthcoming when the R&D is complete. That is of course if the license is still in effect at that time.

          • pweet

            Part 13.2 of the agreement. “After acquired / developed assets IP rights.

            IH has automatic access to all later developments of the ecat technology.
            Rossi has said a number of times the ecatX is a refinement of the original ecat tech, thus IH would have had access to it if they remained under the agreement.
            It seems highly improbable IH would dump the agreement if they had seen any evidence of high COPs because they would know they would tehn lose access to the later developments which had already been loudly proclaimed as being ‘very very promising’ by Rossi. If they didn’t believe him when he said this then that is an indication of previous claims falling short of his proclamations.

            I had always believed the sudden release of the amazing ecat X info around xmas 2015 was for the purpose of luring IH back into the ‘partnership’, even though it was strongly denied there was any rift at that time. All indications were that there was, so now it all fits as expected.

      • HS61AF91

        yes, fantasy perhaps, clever forced awareness ploy, not, no way, just not likely.

    • James Rice

      Sorry, section 10 does require that, somewhat deceptively, imo.

      • SG

        It does not require Mr. Rossi or Leonardo to transfer *ownership* of their own improvements to IH. However, it does capture Mr. Rossi’s and Leonardo’s improvements in the original *license*. There is a difference between transferring ownership and giving a license.

        The patent(s) that IH are filing on their own were probably filed without Mr. Rossi’s signatures.

        • Brent Buckner

          Section 10 states: “Upon the request of the Company, Leonardo and Rossi shall assign to the Company the Licensed Patents with respect to the Territory….”

          On the face of it, it seems to me that assigning the Licensed Patents with repect to the Territory would constitute a transfer of ownership (per III here: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s301.html ).

          If you can easily provide a reference to correct me on that I’d appreciate it!

          • SG

            That section is dealing with recordation *of the license*. In addition, the words “shall assign” are not sufficient to assign ownership of patents or patent applications. It must say “hereby assigns” to be effective.

          • Brent Buckner

            I don’t think it could read “hereby assigns” as the assignment is supposed to be conditional upon the Company making the request.

          • SG

            Right, and such conditional clause is ineffective in assigning ownership of patents. And given that the label of the section is “Recordation of License,” there is little hope of IH pointing to this clause and saying “hey, we own Leonardo’s IP.” It would never hold any water in this dispute.

          • Brent Buckner

            Thank you for your kind reply!

      • Patrick Ellul

        Surely no one can still think that Rossi is trying to defraud or scam anyone. Fraudsters / scammers don’t sue.

        • Yes, this clearly looks like Rossi has something he can lose (the IP which is worth trillions).

          And it’s more or less this IP skeptics raise to question.

          No one would defend an IP which is worth nothing due to scam.

          • malkom700

            The priority now is that the court has to decide quickly, no matter who wins. The situation seems to be clean of the IH did not pay because they do not have enough money.

          • Omega Z

            Notice the request for a jury. Not a Judge.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Anyone who has been involved in legal fights like this will realize IH will come back with all kinds of legal misdirection, legal maneuvering, anything to confuse the issues. It is my opinion it is important for us who believe in LENR to remember IH, Darden and all their companies have invented/ created nothing.

      • Of course. Rossi might not get any money. It could very well be rigged from above by really big fish. Apco involvement hints that… Who knows?

        However, the freedom of openness and the pro of beeing able to speak his mind without being sued himself, they can’t take away from him.

        • It seems pretty certain that we are only seeing a tiny part of the wheels that are in motion. An attempt by the sharks at the top of the food chain to gain control is unavoidable, and this process is probably well under way, possibly through multiple paths. I hope that Cherokee/IH is not a part of that – but it’s possible.

          • Omega Z

            From SK’s new energy times, it appears this is about Darden and Vaughn and all else Cherokee/Industrial Heat Etc…
            It appears they’ve failed to pay $89 Million as agreed upon of a successful 1 year test. Also tried to obtain ptents in their names and shared info with competitors.

            http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiECat/Rossi-vs-Darden/20160405-Complaint/20160405Rossi-vs-Darden-NET.pdf

          • Yes, for once Krivit seems to have been largely correct, and his malicious intent doesn’t affect this. The real questions seem to be whether IH are acting on a long term plan or just short term greed, and whether Darden et al. are behind the scheming or are just a front for bigger fish to hide behind.

  • James Rice

    What I don’t get is that the license agreement does not require transferral of ecat I.P. To IH, but that is what Rossi has done by assigning the US patent to IH, and allowing the European patent to be applied for by IH.

    • James Rice

      Sorry, section 10 does require that, somewhat deceptively, imo.

      • SG

        It does not require Mr. Rossi or Leonardo to transfer *ownership* of their own improvements to IH. However, it does capture Mr. Rossi’s and Leonardo’s improvements in the original *license*. There is a difference between transferring ownership and giving a license.

        The patent(s) that IH are filing on their own were probably filed without Mr. Rossi’s signatures.

        • oldrolledgold

          …Alone in a shipping container…Somebody comes in,someone you trust…’Don’t look around the eyes,look into the eyes’..

        • Brent Buckner

          Section 10 states: “Upon the request of the Company, Leonardo and Rossi shall assign to the Company the Licensed Patents with respect to the Territory….”

          On the face of it, it seems to me that assigning the Licensed Patents with repect to the Territory would constitute a transfer of ownership (per III here: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s301.html ).

          If you can easily provide a reference to correct me on that I’d appreciate it!

          • SG

            That section is dealing with recordation *of the license*. In addition, the words “shall assign” are not sufficient to assign ownership of patents or patent applications. It must say “hereby assigns” to be effective.

          • Brent Buckner

            I don’t think it could read “hereby assigns” as the assignment is supposed to be conditional upon the Company making the request.

          • SG

            Right, and such conditional clause is ineffective in assigning ownership of patents. And given that the label of the section is “Recordation of License,” there is little hope of IH pointing to this clause and saying “hey, we own Leonardo’s IP.” It would never hold any water in this dispute.

          • Brent Buckner

            Thank you for your kind reply!

  • Robert Dorr

    I just don’t think that Rossi would subject himself to a court of law if he wasn’t pretty damn confident of the ERV’s findings and the high COP values and his ability to back it up. I guess we’ll find out, eventually.

    • catfish

      he has nothing to lose.

  • Heath

    I think I get it after reading the agreement (perhaps): Darden’s investment in competitors and the European patent: direct violation of the agreement. The question is why. Was the Hot-Cat not enough? Was it not really performing as reported? Again not a truly independent ERV. I will be interested in IH’s response. Part of me says this is Rossi’s attempt at a correction for a couple of things that need to be straightened out. The other says Darden downplaying of this reactor was for a reason. I’d like to hear that reason and if the relationship will really go forward. Was the 350 day test just legally mandatory and that’s why everyone went along with it even though the relationship had already disintegrated? BTW I am disappointed with this news and am just trying to read into the headline.

    • Darden seems to be playing hardball. It’s possible that the strategy is to withhold funds from Rossi in an attempt to force him to share the e-cat X IP, as this renders all previous versions more or less obsolete and their license to distribute the old version is therefore a relatively poor return on their investment so far.

      The latter would certainly be the case if Rossi is claiming that e-cat X isn’t covered by the original agreements, and is trying to get a new deal, or even to cut IH out of e-cat X entirely.

      It’s a great shame the differences – whatever they are – couldn’t have been resolved by negotiation. A legal fight in US courts could exhaust Rossi’s resources quite quickly – which could well be the intention if an outside attempt to acquire the technology is in process.

      • Omega Z

        According to a recent Rossi post to said question, IH has rights to the E-cat X and Q as well, as it is a continuation of the Hot-cat R&D cycle. Of course, you don’t pay, you don’t play.

        • They may have ‘rights’ to e-cat X but these aren’t much use if you don’t know how to make one.

          • Omega Z

            That knowledge would be forthcoming when the R&D is complete. That is of course if the license is still in effect at that time.

          • pweet

            Part 13.2 of the agreement. “After acquired / developed assets IP rights.

            IH has automatic access to all later developments of the ecat technology.
            Rossi has said a number of times the ecatX is a refinement of the original ecat tech, thus IH would have had access to it if they remained under the agreement.
            It seems highly improbable IH would dump the agreement if they had seen any evidence of high COPs because they would know they would tehn lose access to the later developments which had already been loudly proclaimed as being ‘very very promising’ by Rossi. If they didn’t believe him when he said this then that is an indication of previous claims falling short of his proclamations.

            I had always believed the sudden release of the amazing ecat X info around xmas 2015 was for the purpose of luring IH back into the ‘partnership’, even though it was strongly denied there was any rift at that time. All indications were that there was, so now it all fits as expected.

    • BillH

      IH should not be worried about E-CAT IP, they have area specific exclusive licenses and, as far as I can see, the have first dibs on any new licenses that Leonardo might wish to offer.

  • Nixter

    I think we may have uncovered the root cause of Dr. Rossi’s recent problems with sudden weight loss, this issue must be bothering him greatly, deeply manifested mental distress and anxiety can cause unintended weight loss.

    see; http://www.anxietycentre.com/anxiety-symptoms/weight-loss.shtml

    • Bob Greenyer

      that and the not eating and mentality of a long distance runner.

      • psi2u2

        Hey Bob, what is your feeling at MFMP about these events? I realize you guys are focused on the experimental evidence, but what’s your short summary of how this does or doesn’t change anything you’ve said in the past about corroborating the underlying physics?

        • Bob Greenyer

          As we prepare for GS5.3, the work of Brian Albiston and me356 over the past weeks and the data claimed in this legal case give us more mental support that we have a less than zero chance of exact replication moving forward.

          If proton + 7Li aneutronic fusion/fission is happening as a secondary reaction – the COP levels are entirely possible.

          Exact theory is not so important as having a guide that leads to a working procedure that replicates the effect. When replication is repeatable, hypothesis can be tested.

    • Omega Z

      IH/Darden weren’t completely in default until afer March 29th when the ERV provided the report. With the successful 1 year test, they then owed Rossi/Leonardo $89 Million dollars.

      • Nixter

        I thought of that too, but I suspect that Rossi smelled a rat quite some time before the actual default became evident. IH was behaving in ways that made Rossi nervous, the law suit looks to have be pre-prepared for some time before the time ran out on the test.

  • Nixter

    I think we may have uncovered the root cause of Dr. Rossi’s recent problems with sudden weight loss, this issue must be bothering him greatly, deeply manifested mental distress and anxiety can cause unintended weight loss.

    see; http://www.anxietycentre.com/anxiety-symptoms/weight-loss.shtml

    • Bob Greenyer

      that and the not eating and mentality of a long distance runner.

      • psi2u2

        Hey Bob, what is your feeling at MFMP about these events? I realize you guys are focused on the experimental evidence, but what’s your short summary of how this does or doesn’t change anything you’ve said in the past about corroborating the underlying physics?

        • Bob Greenyer

          As we prepare for GS5.3, the work of Brian Albiston and me356 over the past weeks and the data claimed in this legal case give us more mental support that we have a less than zero chance of exact replication moving forward.

          If proton + 7Li aneutronic fusion/fission is happening as a secondary reaction – the COP levels are entirely possible.

          Exact theory is not so important as having a guide that leads to a working procedure that replicates the effect. When replication is repeatable, hypothesis can be tested.

        • Bob Greenyer

          As we prepare for GS5.3, the work of Brian Albiston and me356 over the past weeks and the data claimed in this legal case give us more mental support that we have a less than zero chance of exact replication moving forward.

          If proton + 7Li aneutronic fusion/fission is happening as a secondary reaction – the COP levels are entirely possible.

          Exact theory is not so important as having a guide that leads to a working procedure that replicates the effect. When replication is repeatable, hypothesis can be tested.

    • Omega Z

      IH/Darden weren’t completely in default until afer March 29th when the ERV provided the report. With the successful 1 year test, they then owed Rossi/Leonardo $89 Million dollars.

      • Nixter

        I thought of that too, but I suspect that Rossi smelled a rat quite some time before the actual default became evident. IH was behaving in ways that made Rossi nervous, the law suit looks to have be pre-prepared for some time before the time ran out on the test.

  • wpj

    I thought that Darden was on the board of Leonardo according to Rossi.

    • If he was, I doubt that he is, now!

  • wpj

    I thought that Darden was on the board of Leonardo according to Rossi.

    • If he was, I doubt that he is, now!

  • nietsnie

    I’m so tired of LENR drama.

    • Under pressure, Rossi may well decide to do something unexpected, so It can only get more ‘dramatic’ from now on.

  • nietsnie

    I’m so tired of LENR drama.

    • akupaku

      Well, I am not! This is better, more entertaining and exciting than any film or play I have seen. Rossi is a top entertainer that holds his audience (us!) spellbound with his ball juggling.

      Human drama and feelings unfolding before your very eyes. Greed, fear, despair, enthusiasm, hate, cynicism, hope, you name it. All this on a screen near you.

      Just enjoy the show! Eat some popcorn! ;o)

      • Mats002

        Yes akupaku – and let me add to that interaction between the entertainers, performers and the audience.

        The reaction of the audience do have impacts in this story, ie digging journalism and findings from experimenters like Parkhomov, MFMP et al.

        • We should also possibly remember that the future shape of the world probably hinges on whether or not a clean, cheap source of energy becomes available, and if so under what limitations.

          • nietsnie

            Exactly. And now that is obscured by skulduggery and opportunism by someone – hard to say who at this point.

          • nietsnie

            Exactly. And now that is obscured by skulduggery and opportunism by someone – hard to say who at this point.

    • Under pressure, Rossi may well decide to do something unexpected, so It can only get more ‘dramatic’ from now on.

  • Patrick Ellul

    Surely no one can still think that Rossi is trying to defraud or scam anyone. Fraudsters / scammers don’t sue.

    • Yes, this clearly looks like Rossi has something he can lose (the IP which is worth trillions).

      And it’s more or less this IP skeptics raise to question.

      No one would defend an IP which is worth nothing due to scam.

      • malkom700

        The priority now is that the court has to decide quickly, no matter who wins. The situation seems to be clean of the IH did not pay because they do not have enough money.

        • Omega Z

          Notice the request for a jury. Not a Judge.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Anyone who has been involved in legal fights like this will realize IH will come back with all kinds of legal misdirection, legal maneuvering, anything to confuse the issues. It is my opinion it is important for us who believe in LENR to remember IH, Darden and all their companies have invented/ created nothing.

    • Of course. Rossi might not get any money. It could very well be rigged from above by really big fish. Apco involvement hints that… Who knows?

      However, the freedom of openness and the pro of beeing able to speak his mind without being sued himself, they can’t take away from him.

      • It seems pretty certain that we are only seeing a tiny part of the wheels that are in motion. An attempt by the sharks at the top of the food chain to gain control is unavoidable, and this process is probably well under way, possibly through multiple paths.

        One classic is of course to bankrupt an inventor through legal processes, by giving him/her no option but to sue. I hope that Cherokee/IH is not a part of such a plan – but it’s possible.

        • Omega Z

          From SK’s new energy times, it appears this is about Darden and Vaughn and all else Cherokee/Industrial Heat Etc…
          It appears they’ve failed to pay $89 Million as agreed upon of a successful 1 year test. Also tried to obtain ptents in their names and shared info with competitors.

          http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiECat/Rossi-vs-Darden/20160405-Complaint/20160405Rossi-vs-Darden-NET.pdf

          • Yes, for once Krivit seems to have been largely correct, and his malicious intent doesn’t affect this. The real questions seem to be whether IH are acting on a long term plan or just short term greed, and whether Darden et al. are behind the scheming or are just a front for bigger fish to hide behind.

        • BillH

          To what end?, IH would have no products to sell and AR would have an IP but no market?

  • Skeptic

    Obviously, public stunt

    • HS61AF91

      synonymous with publicity stunt! Attention with a COP +5 to +50 integral in the stunt, not bad for LENR overall.

  • fritz194

    Schumpeter rulez ;-))
    Lots of interesting innovations died this way.
    Hopefully, the E-Cat ist too big to do “the Schumpeter”.
    we´ll see.

    • fritz194

      Or to tell it with my own words – the commercial success of an idea increases with the number of times it was stolen 😉

  • oldrolledgold

    Of course,the ultra fairy tale story would be that this is cooked up between the two partys to get publicity and prove function in a court of law.

    • HS61AF91

      yes, fantasy perhaps, clever forced awareness ploy, not, no way, just not likely.

  • Alan Smith

    Here’s a conspiracy theory for you. 😉 – I make no claims for it.

    IH became angry that Rossi was developing the X-Cat without telling them all about it. They felt that all IP created on their dollar (they had already paid him $11M) should belong to them too.

    When Rossi suggested that Penon should be the ERV – rather than Underwriters Laboratory etc – they agreed and even paid half the cost.

    This was because they knew that Penon’s documents and independence could be challenged. They let this happen because the customer company was already telling them that the system was working and that energy costs for their factory were going down, so IH knew they had a good thing. Penon’s lack of independence would be a useful legal tool if they decided to withold the $89M they had promised.

    An early decision NOT to pay the ice-cream salesman if he didn’t behave as they wished perhaps lay behind this decision. And explains Darden’s interest in other Researchers into LENR.

    All this is of course suggested without any evidence to back it up. Just musing.

    • fritz194

      …makes a lot of sense…

  • Alan Smith

    Here’s a conspiracy theory for you. 😉 – I make no claims for it.

    IH became angry that Rossi was developing the X-Cat without telling them all about it. They felt that all IP created on their dollar (they had already paid him $11M) should belong to them too.

    When Rossi suggested that Penon should be the ERV – rather than Underwriters Laboratory etc – they agreed and even paid half the cost.

    This was because they knew that Penon’s documents and independence could be challenged. They let this happen because the customer company was already telling them that the system was working and that energy costs for their factory were going down, so IH knew they had a good thing. Penon’s lack of independence would be a useful legal tool if they decided to withold the $89M they had promised.

    An early decision NOT to pay the ice-cream salesman if he didn’t behave as they wished perhaps lay behind this decision. And explains Darden’s interest in other Researchers into LENR.

    All this is of course suggested without any evidence to back it up. Just musing.

    • fritz194

      …makes a lot of sense…

    • BillH

      Only for one huge mistake on AR’s part, his blog shows that he was working on the E-Cat X during the 1 year test, while an employee of IH. If he hadn’t mentioned it or he was authorised to work on it during this time, he might have been able to claim it was a completely separate project, doh!

      • clovis ray

        hi, bill.
        you said, or he was authorised to work on it during this time, or
        there was no mention of it at all.

      • The relationship is very unclear, and may have changed at some point. It’s hard to see how IH could have been Rossi’s employer and his licensee at the same time.

  • The line between Rossi’s invention and ‘improvements’ by third parties (other IH employees or contacted teams to whom secrets have been passed) is almost impossible to define, and a test case to establish it had a certain inevitability. There is just too much money (and power) in prospect for the cosy picture of co-operation that we had often assumed to be the actual case, and now it is in the open.

    Hence of course Rossi’s legally-phrased proclamation on JoNP that Leonardo owned all e-cat IP, and Darden’s press release indirectly attempting to cast doubt on anything claimed by AR, not that either have any legal weight.

    This is a regrettable development. IH apparently has the resources to complete R&D and build or acquire the necessary production facilities, while Rossi has (most of?) the IP, especially that relating to ‘e-cat X’, but may not have the resources to go much beyond prototype development and perhaps limited production of reactor units. He needs another large ‘partner’ fairly urgently, but must be extremely careful in his choices.

    On the upside, as others have pointed out, the fact that a fight has broken out confirms that there is something worth fighting for. Not only that but it increases the chances of a leak or further splits in the ranks, that will allow multiple development paths to take place, and eventually for enough information to escape to allow completely independent entities to come up with their own versions.

    In the meantime though, it means that time and resources that should have gone into e-cat R&D will go into the legal battle, although it may also result in a race to the finish line, rather than the rather slow and methodical process we have watched so far. That could only be a Good Thing.

  • The line between Rossi’s inventions and ‘improvements’ by IH (or rather by other IH employees or contacted teams to whom certain secrets may have been passed) is almost impossible to contractually define, and a test case to establish it had a certain inevitability. My guess, one I’ve suggested before, is that the disagreement may be at least in part over e-cat X, which couldn’t have been foreseen and may only have been loosely covered in the contract between IH and Leonardo. However there are other, more sinister possibilities.

    There is just too much money (and power) in prospect to easily allow the cosy picture of co-operation that we had often assumed, and now the cracks are publicly visible. Hence of course Rossi’s legally-phrased proclamation on JoNP that Leonardo owned all e-cat IP, and Darden’s press release indirectly attempting to cast doubt on anything claimed by AR – not that either statement has any legal weight to it.

    This is a regrettable development. IH apparently has the resources from outside investment to complete R&D on the 1MW unit and to build or acquire the necessary production facilities, while Rossi has (most of?) the IP, especially that relating to ‘e-cat X’, but may not have the resources to go much beyond prototype development and perhaps limited production of reactor units, even before legal costs. He needs another large ‘partner’ fairly urgently, but must be extremely careful in his choices, and in the wording of any new contracts.

    On the upside, as others have pointed out, the fact that a fight has broken out confirms that there is something worth fighting for. Not only that but it increases the chances of a leak or further splits in the ranks, that will allow multiple development paths to take place, and eventually for enough information to escape to allow completely independent entities to come up with their own versions.

    In the meantime though, it means that time and resources that should have gone into e-cat R&D will go into the legal battle that is possibly intended to bankrupt Rossi, although it may also result in a race to the finish line, rather than the rather slow and methodical process we have watched so far. That could only be a Good Thing.

    • BillH

      Since AR seems to be the one doing the sueing if it bankrupts him then he only has himself to blame?

      • Not really. Things could have easily been arranged to leave Rossi little or no alternative. That would mean that he has fallen into a trap though – not good.

  • viking999

    IH may have found out that there are other LENR-solutions that works much better, more stable and cheaper than the E-cat . Paying $100m to Rossi would be the same as throwing money into water. I just read that two Norwegians have achieved a COP of 25 with their reactor.

    • Jonnyb

      can we have the link, thanks

  • alan

    Rossi is up the creek without a paddle. IH will not allow the ERV to be published as it is not in their interest unless negative. Rossi cannot manufacture without serious financial backing, and I’m not sure he can show ERV to interested parties.
    What does he do now ?
    IH may have enough knowledge and IP rights to go it alone. Of course they have already hinted that they do not accept the report, so that’s fraud isn’t it ?

    • wpj

      The press release states that the independent report was in line with the observations of IH’s and Leonardo’s observers so it is difficult to see how they can not approve it.

      Additionally, if it goes to court, much of the report will have to be released making it useful for any funding requirements.

      • wpj

        Wow! Looking the documents, it is clear that the company is not JM Chemicals but Johnson Matthey (JMC) which is one of the largest producers of metal catalysts in the world.

        • Patrick Ellul

          Where is this clear to you?

          • wpj

            Final page of the second document above; company is JMC owned by UK entity.

            http://chemicals.matthey.com

          • Patrick Ellul

            perhaps. but still not 100% clear.

          • wpj

            Possibly not, but he had to get his metals from somewhere and this could be the connection

          • Patrick Ellul

            interesting that he recently stated that the next plant instalment testing ecat-x will be in united kingdom.

        • John Littlemist

          Good find if true. Thanks!

  • alan

    Rossi is up the creek without a paddle. IH will not allow the ERV to be published as it is not in their interest unless negative. Rossi cannot manufacture without serious financial backing, and I’m not sure he can show ERV to interested parties.
    What does he do now ?
    IH may have enough knowledge and IP rights to go it alone. Of course they have already hinted that they do not accept the report, so that’s fraud isn’t it ?

    • wpj

      The press release states that the independent report was in line with the observations of IH’s and Leonardo’s observers so it is difficult to see how they can not approve it.

      Additionally, if it goes to court, much of the report will have to be released making it useful for any funding requirements.

      As an aside, I looked on Google earth for the location of JM Chemicals (site of the 1 year test) and it just seems to be warehouses where this chemical operation is supposed to be.

      • wpj

        Wow! Looking the documents, it is clear that the company is not JM Chemicals but Johnson Matthey (JMC) which is one of the largest producers of metal catalysts in the world.

        • alan

          A British company, and the next facility to use ecat is in UK as is the Woodford fund.
          Link ?

          • wpj

            Could be; they have a major manufacturing facility at Royston, just outside Cambridge.

          • alan

            The one company that does not need a validation report. They know it works.

          • Rossi may be quite inclined to move his operations to Europe after his US experience.

        • Patrick Ellul

          Where is this clear to you?

          • wpj

            Final page of the second document above; company is JMC owned by UK entity.

            http://chemicals.matthey.com

          • Patrick Ellul

            perhaps. but still not 100% clear.

          • wpj

            Possibly not, but he had to get his metals from somewhere and this could be the connection

          • Patrick Ellul

            interesting that he recently stated that the next plant instalment testing ecat-x will be in united kingdom.

        • John Littlemist

          Good find if true. Thanks!

      • alan

        The press release can say what it likes, IH already hinted they didnt believe it when they said only accept IH own validation.
        Yes the report will come out, but when ? IH can drag their heels.
        If they do not accept the report IH will allege fraud.
        Its in IH court now.

    • BillH

      Stealing IP would ruin IH’s reputation, I don’t think they would go down this route as AR can clearly show IP precedence, they should stick with there exclusive production agreements.

    • roseland67

      Alan,
      If the Ecat works as stated, Rossi can begin selling anytime, he will soon be buried in orders.
      These purchase orders are typically accepted at banks as quasi collateral for loans.
      Energy companies would be eager to get involved and pay Rossi to manufacture plants, they will probably finance if needed.
      Just have to verify Ecat works

  • Guest
    • Wow. If the Sifferkoll post is even 50% correct (it’s almost certainly more than that) then Rossi really does have the sh1tty end of the stick. IH (or their ‘sponsors’) will now run with what IP they have (basically the 1MW LT technology), and attempt to ‘legally’ wrest the e-cat X know-how from him, while Rossi has to decide what best to do with the e-cat X technology – while he still controls it.

      I hope he uses some of the $11.5M to pay for 24/7 physical protection.

      • clovis ray

        HI,GUYS
        Remember the first rule in the hitchhiker’s guide to the universe is, DON’T PANIC,
        this is not the first time, that someone tried to steal his invention,
        I have faith that Dr.Rossi, has things well in hand, and he has plenty of good legal advisers, and the good sense to know where he stands.
        There is justice in this world, as long as you keep truth and honesty,on your side.

  • Jonnyb

    Such a shame, what an awful World we live in!

    • not the only case.

      Some best friend have been caught backstabbing an old friend.
      You prepare to make a big cake to share it afterward, and not even it is cooked, the team battle to steal floor and eggs…

      money make people stupid…
      in fact not money but ego.

      they think they don’t need the other guy, but all they win is being left alone.

      second time in this week I want to puke.

      • wpj

        Too true; I developed a pharmaceutical product for a company/friend in Spain for 5% royalty. When the sales got over $2m he thought that he was paying too much and so stopped paying. I started legal action but he sued me instead so that the case would be in Spain and far too expensive for me.

  • Jonnyb

    Such a shame, what an awful World we live in!

    • not the only case.

      Some best friend have been caught backstabbing an old friend.
      You prepare to make a big cake to share it afterward, and not even it is cooked, the team battle to steal floor and eggs…

      money make people stupid…
      in fact not money but ego.

      they think they don’t need the other guy, but all they win is being left alone.

      second time in this week I want to puke.

      • wpj

        Too true; I developed a pharmaceutical product for a company/friend in Spain for 5% royalty. When the sales got over $2m he thought that he was paying too much and so stopped paying. I started legal action but he sued me instead so that the case would be in Spain and far too expensive for me.

        • bachcole

          And people wonder why we have so many movies like “Mad Max”. With regard to litigation and politics, we already live in a “Mad Max” world.

          • We have done for decades. We only see it when the curtains part slightly.

          • bachcole

            And of course lawyers encourage this attitude because it gives them purpose and business.

      • bachcole

        God that was beautiful. “They think that they don’t need the other guy, but all they win is being left alone.”

        • Jarea

          hey, what do you think about Darden now? Is it still your heroe the savior of the world?. That was the reason i had to wait until we have the product.

  • georgehants

    Have I ever mentioned what a terrible World capitalism creates with millions dying and suffering around the World,, maybe a few of the brainwashed masses would like to open their eyes and help find a better system
    As I have mentioned before Rossi needs to forget piles of Gold and Silver and publish, five years already wasted for nothing but money.
    He is old, it is now or never.

    • Morning George – good to see you back.

      If as seems possible Rossi ends up facing huge legal bills, releasing his e-cat X IP under license at relatively low cost to thousands of buyers may be his best option. It would give him all the money he needs, especially at his age, and recognition for his discoveries. But most importantly would create a gold rush to market among a huge number of developers that would be unstoppable by any vested interests.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, it is all to much for me, am now logging out again.
        Keep up the good work to get Cold Fusion to those that need it and not for rich parasites to fight over.

      • BillH

        I don’t see AR releasing any IP, and who would manufacture plant for sale in the US against an embargo from the courts?

    • Dods

      He’s tried to play the capitalist game and its not working for him. The best bet now is to hit them where it hurts and join the MFMP give it to the masses and money will be obsolete in 10 years.

    • Michael W Wolf

      establishment science is completely socialist. Why aren’t you complaining about there inability to bring the world anything?

  • georgehants

    Have I ever mentioned what a terrible World capitalism creates with millions dying and suffering around the World,, maybe a few of the brainwashed masses would like to open their eyes and help find a better system
    As I have mentioned before Rossi needs to forget piles of Gold and Silver and publish, five years already wasted for nothing but money.
    He is old, it is now or never.

    • Morning George – good to see you back.

      If as seems possible Rossi ends up facing huge legal bills, releasing his e-cat IP under license at relatively low cost to thousands of buyers may be his best option. It would give him all the money he needs, especially at his age, and recognition for his discoveries. It would also render the court case absolutely pointless, so it could be dropped. But most importantly it would create a gold rush to market among a huge number of developers that would be unstoppable by any vested interests.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, it is all to much for me, am now logging out again.
        Keep up the good work to get Cold Fusion to those that need it and not for rich parasites to fight over.

      • BillH

        I don’t see AR releasing any IP, and who would manufacture plant for sale in the US against an embargo from the courts?

    • Dods

      He’s tried to play the capitalist game and its not working for him. The best bet now is to hit them where it hurts and join the MFMP give it to the masses and money will be obsolete in 10 years.

      • BillH

        You clearly don’t understand money as an abstraction of value. It simple means different things will become valuable, oil, gas and coal down in value, Nickel and Lithium up.

    • Michael W Wolf

      establishment science is completely socialist. Why aren’t you complaining about there inability to bring the world anything?

      • orsobubu

        Science establishment, like religion, justice etc, is a superstructure built upon the capitalist production system, the economic structure. So we have to complain about the structure, and this is precisely and scientifically what George does. I think you’re saying that big science is socialist because of the government role, but all world governments (except a little island in the Pacific) serve the respective capitalistic States, so, at most, you should correct – in my opinion – “socialist” in “state capitalistic”.

    • Cuthbert Allgood

      You’re joking, right? Capitalism has cured more human misery than any other social movement, by far. Capitalism is like vaccines… it’s worked so spectacularly well that no one remembers the misery that it solved, and so all they do is complain about the minor problems that are left.

      This is is not to say capitalism doesn’t need to be lightly regulated, because it does (“no regulation at any cost” Libertarians are typically fools who don’t actually understand capitalism). But to say capitalism created “millions dying and suffering” is so absurd is to be parody. Capitalism has saved and improved the lives of billions upon billions of people, and made it possible to rise out of the class one was born into.

    • Cuthbert Allgood

      You’re joking, right? Capitalism has cured more human misery than any other social movement, by far. Capitalism is like vaccines… it’s worked so spectacularly well that no one remembers the misery that it solved, and so all they do is complain about the minor problems that are left.

      This is is not to say capitalism doesn’t need to be lightly regulated, because it does (“no regulation at any cost” Libertarians are typically fools who don’t actually understand capitalism). But to say capitalism created “millions dying and suffering” is so absurd is to be parody. Capitalism has saved and improved the lives of billions upon billions of people, and made it possible to rise out of the class one was born into.

      • orsobubu

        Joan Robinson, an anti-Marxist famous economist, used to say that if it was demonstrated workers produce all the real wealth (user value and exchange value), proletariat would be right over planning a communist revolution, Today (FED data), more than 50% of US citizens cannot readily raise 400 dollars cash, living day by day with their salary. This is the plain demonstration of what Marx said 170 years ago. The capitalist robs the surplus value to his wage worker and, since in capitalism every goods has its price that MUST be payed off, proletariat – since producing all the richness inside the globally socialized production system – is authorized by the same capitalistic rules to make a revolution (also note that the same capitalists made a revolution to seize the power from kings).

        • Cuthbert Allgood

          People can’t readily raise 400 dollars cash because they voluntarily spend their money instead of saving it. That has nothing to do with anyone else in society. And what capitalism gives people is not a royal road of gold, it’s a road *to* the gold. Any able-bodied person in the United States can improve themselves and raise their class. People don’t choose to be poor, but they choose whether to improve themselves.

          The wage worker doesn’t have surplus value — they are paid what their value is. The surplus value comes for the organizing of workers into producing things of value. That’s why the organizers make all the money, because that’s where the real value is. Low-skill workers are paid low wages because they’re easily replaceable, hence have little value. People who can organize companies make a lot of money because they take the risk. Low skill workers trade the potential for money in exchange for a low-risk steady paycheck.

          I understand the lure of the siren song of Socialism. But if socialism could produce great societies and wonderful living standards for workers, we would have some good examples of them. But we don’t. Every pure socialistic country has been an absolute horrible disaster. There are some countries that have richer safety nets than the U.S. — but all of them have firm footings in capitalism which pays for the safety net. And none of them have ever shown the economic strength and stability of the United States over a long period time. The reason, of course, is that for all the flaws of the United States, our embrace of Capitalism allows for much quicker economic transformations without trying to provide “social protections” of failing industries.

          Go look at Venezuela’s experiment with socializing oil production if you want to see what happens when government power-by-fiat tries to micromanage a major part of the economy. Or hell, look at Greece — which is what happens when you lavish money on “the workers” (which happens to be government workers, funny how that worked).

          • orsobubu

            Cuthbert, come here to discuss, or then we risk to go in moderation, thx

            http://tinyurl.com/zob7wq7

            please go at the end of document

  • Visitor

    MFMP success and published recipe might be the cause for all that.
    IH saw that the secret is out, why would they pay millions for something that can be achieved for free?
    They can now use the infrastructures built for Rossi and use them with MFMP recipe.
    All they needed is a reason to hold payments and this is easy when you have top lawyers working for you.
    If a patent suit will come, they can always say that they are using the open-source (MFMP) recipe.

    • Jonnyb

      If you are correct then the MFMP project has supplied the bullets to shoot down Rossi, I really hope you are wrong, but sounds plausible.

  • Jonnyb

    If you are correct then the MFMP project has supplied the bullets to shoot down Rossi, I really hope you are wrong, but sounds plausible.

  • wpj

    Could be; they have a major manufacturing facility at Royston, just outside Cambridge.

  • JDM

    I need to get some more popcorn!

    • Rossi may be quite inclined to move his operations to Europe after his US experience.

  • JDM

    I need to get some more popcorn!

  • Enrique Ferreyra

    One year for just a Fabio Penon small summary ? Really ?

    • It seems that IH/Darden have been playing a game of delay, of which the 1 year test was a part (see the Sifferkoll post linked elsewhere in this thread).

      It’s unfortunate from their POV that rather than twiddling his thumbs while stuck in his container, Rossi seems to have developed something that renders the 1MW system obsolete before it’s offered as a product, and they don’t know its secrets.

      From his lack of updates and posts recently, it seems that Mats Lewen may have known something of this, and it would be very interesting to learn his reaction to the revelations.

  • Enrique Ferreyra

    One year for just a Fabio Penon small summary ? Really ?

    • It seems that IH/Darden may have been playing a game of delay, of which the 1 year test was a part (see the Sifferkoll post linked elsewhere in this thread).

      It’s unfortunate from their POV that rather than twiddling his thumbs while stuck in his container, Rossi seems to have developed something that renders the 1MW system obsolete before it’s even offered as a product, and they don’t know its secrets.

      From his lack of updates and posts recently, it seems that Mats Lewen may have known something of this, and it would be very interesting to learn his reaction to the revelations.

  • HS61AF91

    The desparaging article in New Energy Times ( http://news.newenergytimes.net/2016/04/06/convicted-fraudster-rossi-accuses-licensee-industrial-heat-of-fraud/ ) prompted me to resppond:

    Editors, no matter how you disparage it, the era of new energy has arrived. The paradigm shift from oil related electricity, heat, and motor transport to clean, cheap, independent energy is upon us. The
    robot factories will begin turning out the energy catalyzers, whether you doubt it or not. So sit back and watch the fireworks when this sinks into the public’s awareness.

  • HS61AF91

    The desparaging article in New Energy Times ( http://news.newenergytimes.net/2016/04/06/convicted-fraudster-rossi-accuses-licensee-industrial-heat-of-fraud/ ) prompted me to resppond:

    Editors, no matter how you disparage it, the era of new energy has arrived. The paradigm shift from oil related electricity, heat, and motor transport to clean, cheap, independent energy is upon us. The
    robot factories will begin turning out the energy catalyzers, whether you doubt it or not. So sit back and watch the fireworks when this sinks into the public’s awareness.

  • HS61AF91

    In the Stars and Stripes the article ”

    “Senators slam new directive on aid for sick US nuclear workers” appears. Gave me the opportunity to comment as follows:

    Fighting over soon to be obsolete nuclear energy production is ridiculous. This press release ( Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified – Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC. ) announces here in the USA the following:

    “MIAMI, April 6, 2016 /PRNewswire/ — Leonardo Corporation announced today that on March 29, 2016, Leonardo Corporation received independent third party validation of the overwhelmingly positive results of a nearly yearlong test of Leonardo’s 1MW Energy Catalyzer (“E-Cat”). According to the inventor, Andrea Rossi, the E-Cat generates a low energy nuclear reaction (“LENR”) which produces excess heat energy at a cost substantially below more traditional energy sources. Accordingto the independent third party report, over the 352 day test period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the same period. According to Andrea Rossi, Leonardo Corporation considers the results of the third party test to be “an overwhelming success” and that “the world is one step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean and efficient energy source.”

    It goes on to detail non compliance details why the inventor sues Industrial Heat. The most important aspect of this is getting 6 to 50 times more energy out as goes in, and that without any pollution of any kind. When the senators’ constituents grasp the difference between this and bickering over nuclear plants, all hell will break lose. …..

    If the editors do not remove the comment, many active duty and retired servicemen and women will have a chance to delve further into this news!

    • BillH

      The problem with that is since AR is currently suing IH no product is likely to be put on the market in the US till that is resolved.

      • HS61AF91

        Perhaps, however, like the “Trump” effect, the news about this will penetrate further into the public knowledge domain, than without this press announcement. When faced with a choice, doing something, even if fraught with risks is better than doing zilch. AR moved, first!

      • HS61AF91

        Perhaps, however, like the “Trump” effect, the news about this will penetrate further into the public knowledge domain, than without this press announcement. When faced with a choice, doing something, even if fraught with risks is better than doing zilch. AR moved, first!

  • Wow. If the Sifferkoll post is even 50% correct (it’s almost certainly more than that) then Rossi really does have the sh1tty end of the stick. IH (or their ‘sponsors’) will now run with what IP they have (basically the 1MW LT technology), and attempt to ‘legally’ wrest the e-cat X know-how from him, while Rossi has to decide what best to do with the e-cat X technology – while he still controls it.

    I hope he uses some of the $1.5M to pay for 24/7 physical protection.

  • We have done for decades. We only see it when the curtains part slightly.

  • Not really. Things could have easily been arranged to leave Rossi little or no alternative. That would mean that he had fallen into a trap though – not good.

  • BillH

    Here’s a curve ball, the agreement clearly shows that the plant IH bought for $1.5M was the 52 reactor 20KW/per version. The test was completed using the x4 250KW version. Maybe IH let AR complete the test knowing that this was their get out clause?

    • Robert Dorr

      The contract specifically states that the 1 MW plant can be modified. You will notice if you read the legal documents that they also describe a “six cylinder” plant to be used for verification.

  • Charles

    .
    Comments sure have risen in sheer numbers lately. Up from 10-20 to hundreds.

    You know LENR has arrived, because suing ham sandwiches has started.
    .

    • Its a shame they’re spread over three threads – it’s difficult to keep up when you need to jump all over the place.

      • Michael W Wolf

        I like them spread out. I just get bored on one page. lol

      • artefact

        I have multiple tabs open and can see the new posts marked by discus in blue when I select a tab.

  • Charles

    .
    Comments sure have risen in sheer numbers lately. Up from 10-20 to hundreds.

    You know LENR has arrived, because suing ham sandwiches has started.
    .

    • Its a shame they’re spread over three threads – it’s difficult to keep up when you need to jump all over the place.

      • Michael W Wolf

        I like them spread out. I just get bored on one page. lol

      • Michael W Wolf

        I like them spread out. I just get bored on one page. lol

      • artefact

        I have multiple tabs open and can see the new posts marked by discus in blue when I select a tab.

      • artefact

        I have multiple tabs open and can see the new posts marked by discus in blue when I select a tab.

  • Manuel Cruz

    Your theory has a fatal flaw.
    If the E-Cat didn’t work, the test wouldn’t have lasted one year. They would have stopped it after one month.

    • HiggsField

      So far we have only heard tit bits from AR about the test. Sadly we may not see the test report, but if this does go to trial we may finally be able to pull back the curtain and see if the emperor has on any cloths.

  • US_Citizen71

    The multi-year delay by IH is likely the reason for the change of the layout on the plant. But, you may have a point the plant tested did have different specs than the contract laid out. I wonder if there was an amendment to cover that.

  • SG

    As I understand, the $10M was handed over. What is in dispute is that the third payment of $89M was not handed over. I’m surprised Mr. Rossi didn’t insist that the $89M be escrowed as well. Had that happened, he would likely be in possession of the money by now.

  • BillH

    The problem with that is since AR is currently suing IH no product is likely to be put on the market in the US till that is resolved.

    • HS61AF91

      Perhaps, however, like the “Trump” effect, the news about this will penetrate further into the public knowledge domain, than without this press announcement. When faced with a choice, doing something, even if fraught with risks is better than doing zilch. AR moved, first!

  • The relationship is very unclear, and may have changed at some point. It’s hard to see how IH could have been Rossi’s employer and his licensee at the same time.

  • Brent Buckner

    I think they’d already handed over $11.5 million, not $61 million. (You might have seen a reference to $50 million – the claim is that amount was invested in IH, not an amount paid to Leonardo).

  • Byron McDonald

    The wailing and gnashing of teeth is palpable through the screen. Nothing prevents Rossi from going to market now in the EU with other investors. The lawsuit will be a sideshow if / when this happens. Also, Rossi has ostensibly repeated his results on multiple occasions. A lot of very smart people are attempting to do the same thing and with the information in this case there are new breadcrumbs to follow. Just as inventions whose time has come have been discovered independently and near simultaneously on opposite sides of the world throughout history, LENR will happen in any case (F9). Brilliant Light Power and Brillouin must be very pleased with this outcome for their own efforts in the markets covered by IH’s license.

  • Jarea

    hey, what do you think about Darden now? Is it still your heroe the savior of the world?. That was the reason i had to wait until we have the product.

  • Alan Smith

    I think it important to note that part of the ‘long test’ agreement was that the customer would pay IH (not Rossi) $1000/day for heat during the period of the test. Supplying 1MW of purely electrical heating around the clock at 12c/Kwh would cost close to $3000/day – a big difference.

    It has long been known that the customer was originally using gas boilers, whose running costs (including oversight and depreciation) must have been somewhere between $1000/$1500 per day. They changed over to electrical heating specifically to accommodate the E-cat.

    I think it extremely improbable that anyone would fail to notice that the customer’s heat energy costs had more than doubled during a one year period. In fact such a discrepancy would have been obvious after a few weeks, because someone would be picking up the tab for it. Even if that someone was Rossi (which seems unlikely) it is impossible to believe that IH’s own expert representatives would never check-read the electricity meters.

    Something smells very fishy here, and in my opinion the smell is coming from somewhere a long way north of Miami,

    • yes, it is not on the electric bill that can be the mistake.
      Maybe it can be on the calorimetry, but if the heat is really used, the industrialist will see it immediately as the power demanded is the lowest before the job is not done.

      for me the trick if there is is simply written in the report :
      the average COP is low, and unpredictable ?
      the reliability is very low ?
      the ERV think it is OK, but the client disagree -> one of the two is dishonest or incompetent… and the client cannot be incompetent.

      we need the report.

    • Pweet

      That is assuming the customer had a factory process which was up and running before the e-cat was installed.
      I have a feeling from other comments made, the customer specifically set up this facility to test the 1MW plant. If this was the case then there would be no previous energy bills to compare with. That would mean any comparison could only be made with what they estimated the energy costs would have been without the use of the ecat.
      While that does not in itself negate the test, it does present another facility whereby the results could be fudged.
      Is there any information which conclusively shows the test site was previously running for some years and the ecat was put in to replace a previous heat source?

      • Alan Smith

        Bless you Pweet, if we had conclusive information (in our possession) about almost any of this we would all either be building E-cats or taking up embroidery.
        The best we can do is say that is is fairly certain that the customer was Johnson Matthey and that they have a need for steam/hot water for making their version of Raney Nickel Sponge. They have never manufactured this material in Miami before.
        JM also have other plants making this material and know precisely how much energy the process requires and what it costs. They set up a line in a factory space in Miami, used the E-cat to feed it with heat, and at the end of the test dismantled and removed it.
        Remember it was JM who supplied P&F with Palladium – they have form for being interested in the LENR game. They are a very profitable business with global reach – they could certainly afford to do it.
        Also, something else to consider. JM is not a branch of Dunkin’ Donuts. They have a highly technical view of the world – and can lay their hands on plenty of smart people to analyse just how good any new technology is. They work for the Space business, the military, for hot fusion and nuclear energy companies too.
        My Saturday thought.

  • Alan Smith

    I think it important to note that part of the ‘long test’ agreement was that the customer would pay IH (not Rossi) $1000/day for heat during the period of the test. Supplying 1MW of purely electrical heating around the clock at 12c/Kwh would cost close to $3000/day – a big difference.

    • yes, it is not on the electric bill that can be the mistake.
      Maybe it can be on the calorimetry, but if the heat is really used, the industrialist will see it immediately as the power demanded is the lowest before the job is not done.

      for me the trick if there is is simply written in the report :
      the average COP is low, and unpredictable ?
      the reliability is very low ?
      the ERV think it is OK, but the client disagree -> one of the two is dishonest or incompetent… and the client cannot be incompetent.

      we need the report.

    • Pweet

      That is assuming the customer had a factory process which was up and running before the e-cat was installed.
      I have a feeling from other comments made, the customer specifically set up this facility to test the 1MW plant. If this was the case then there would be no previous energy bills to compare with. That would mean any comparison could only be made with what they estimated the energy costs would have been without the use of the ecat.
      While that does not in itself negate the test, it does present another facility whereby the results could be fudged.
      Is there any information which conclusively shows the test site was previously running for some years and the ecat was put in to replace a previous heat source?

      • Alan Smith

        Bless you Pweet

  • Wow did the report leave everyone speechless?