Rossi: QuarkX to be a 'Tremendous Surprise for Everyone'

When not dealing with issues related to the court case, Andrea Rossi seems to be focusing a lot of time now on the E-Cat QuarkX reactor, which he says now can produce heat, light and electricity. He has said he will be doing a test with the QuarkX in June with an important customer/partner who he says could help with production of the E-Cat in the future. Today he added some new comments about the QuarkX:

Andrea Rossi
May 2, 2016 at 4:39 PM

“Jacky”:
The QuarkX will be a very big surprise for everybody. Nobody can imagine what is coming up. I am very pleased of how she is growing up and by the day I become more optimist about the outcome of this new masterpiece of my great Team. The beauty of her is that if F8 will turn out to be positive, the consequences will be fast and diffused.
F8.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Andrea Rossi
May 2, 2016 at 8:55 PM

Tom Conover:
The QuarkX will be a tremendous surprise, for everybody. I am not sure that it will be positive to F8, but if it will, that will be a revolution that nobody expects.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

F8 in this case is Rossi’s code for “if the R&D on the QuarkX is positive” (or something like that). I’m not sure what the “surprise” might be here — since he has already said that this reactor makes heat, light and electricity with a high COP. Perhaps there are features he hasn’t mentioned yet. At one point Rossi mentioned that there might be a presentation or press conference of some kind. Now Mats Lewan has cancelled the Stockholm conference, I’m not sure if Rossi will hold a press conference in Sweden as he previously said he would. I just hope at some point soon the public will be invited to see what the surprise is.

  • HHiram

    I would like to see a photograph of Rossi with his team. Just seeing that he really does have a few people around working with him would give me confidence that this isn’t all just fiction.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I think he means the rollout to market will be the surprise, not the functionality.
    Dottore Rossi seems to be hinting at a more battery like role for the distribution.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I think he means the rollout to market will be the surprise, not the functionality.
    Dottore Rossi seems to be hinting at a more battery like role for the distribution.

    Integration into multiple products. Perhaps broad product types, and a focus on being more of a parts supplier than a product vendor.

    • Jas

      Perhaps he is refering to the millions or billions of people around the world who are totally ignorant of the ecat and the science of lenr in general? When he says “nobody can imagine” I dont think he means us the readers and posters on ecatworld and other websites.

      • Ophelia Rump

        I considered that but anyone reading the Journal knew that already.

        Consider the audience he was talking to.

        The following sounds like hints of an extremely fast market penetration to me.

        “the consequences will be fast and diffused”.

  • Alain Samoun

    st thomas: seeing is believing…;-)

    • Gian Luca

      Sure
      Maybe even touching it (incandescent)

  • Jas

    Perhaps he is refering to the millions or billions of people around the world who are totally ignorant of the ecat and the science of lenr in general? When he says “nobody can imagine” I dont think he means us the readers and posters on ecatworld and other websites.

  • HiggsField

    yawn…

  • Alex Fenrick

    I personally cannot take any conversations with “Jacky” serious as this is one of Rossi’s fake accounts. If Rossi is faking the account..how can we trust what is being communicated via this account? So very shady….

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Rossi comment that it will generate 550 degrees C means a completely new market.

    • Engineer48

      550C QuarkX steam can drive subcritical steam turbines in thermal power plants. Using a conservative 1/3 efficiency a 1GWe subcritical turbine plant would need around 3GWt of QuarkX generators.

      At 1MWt / m^3 that would be 3,000 m^3 of 1MW QuarkX reactors or a cube 14.4m (47.2ft) on a side.

      • Karl Venter

        Hi Engineer

        Have you thought about how you are going to get a 3 GW of energy out of a 14m^3 cube

        • Engineer48

          It is a max density 3,000M^3 (1MWt / m^3) that is 14.4m or 47.2 on each side. Of course tubing to connect to the steam boiler and access for maint walkways will increase the cubic size, probably triple it.

          If however these stainless 600C HotCat/QuarkX thermal radiator enclosures could be fitted through the side walls of an existing coal boiler, then the retrofitting could be a lot easier and faster.

          • Karl Venter

            You need about 1500kg/s of water (Liquid) in contact with a delta t of 525degrees
            thats no small feat
            Typical supercritical 800MW boiler does about 500-600kg/s steam at about 250 bar with temp about 600deg c
            I would be careful to expect it to be that easy

      • Andreas Moraitis

        3 GW would require 30 million „Quarks“ à 100W. It will be a problem to refill or replace them once a year. Even if you had blocks of 1000 units which require 30 min of maintenance time, 60 technicians working in three shifts 7 days a week would need more than 10 months to complete the job.

        • Engineer48

          At a QuarkX density of 1MWt / m^3, might suggest the build would be based on 10MWt modules at 10m^3 (2.15m on a side). Easy to unplug and replace one of 300 such modules on a rotating maintenance program.

          Another facility would recharge the 10MWt modules, ready to be used in the next replacement cycle.

          As large power plants have multiple steam turbines and none runs 24/7/365, should be simple to incorporate the once a year 10MWt module recharge cycles for the boilers driving that turbine in the normal turbine & generator maintenance cycles.

          Give an engineer an issue to resolve and it will be resolved. Our world is built by engineers and manufacturers, plus a lot of middle men, never forget that.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            “Give an engineer an issue to resolve and it will be resolved.”

            Yes, provided that an economically appropriate solution is possible. In any case, it will be interesting to observe how economic factors will influence the evolution of this technology.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Thanks, can a QuarkX 550C be used in small thermal power plants?

        • Engineer48

          If the QuarkX can fit inside those stainless steel heater enclosures and can heat it to 600C, then we are maybe go for direct generation of 600C steam.

  • Michel Vandenberghe

    Clean, cheap, abundanr, dense….

    About a business scenario and LENR…

    http://egooutpeters.blogspot.fr/2016/02/feb-24-2016-lenr-cities-european-leader.html?m=1

  • Michel Vandenberghe

    Clean, cheap, abundanr, dense….

    About a business scenario and LENR…

    http://egooutpeters.blogspot.fr/2016/02/feb-24-2016-lenr-cities-european-leader.html?m=1

  • Steve Swatman

    I for one would be really happy for a short video presentation, because, sometimes you need to feed the people who are watching, listening and reading, with a bit of fish and bread.

  • DrD

    Perhaps we should have a competition, “guess the surprise”.
    That is, what is the specification that will make the quark shine (excuse the pun).
    Maybe COP>100 (100% thermal) COP>20 (100% electric).
    Output temperature >600 deg C.
    AR answered that the E-CAT wasn’t suitable for summer winter operation. I think he meant lifetime or efficiency is reduced if it’s left “OFF” for prolonged times. Perhaps Quark can better tolerate long “OFF” times.
    With an electric COP~20 it could eventually be made to operate with no external input, just a battery to maintain control at all times. I think he won’t do this initially as he mentioned safety concerns.

    • kdk

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the quark the one that has particles or clusters laid out on a very small scale?

      • DrD

        Rossi’s Quark is just a very tiny E-Catx having an output of 100W and about the size of a pencil. He says all E-Catx’s will be made up from multiple Quarks. One answer he gave was that a 1MW (10,000 quarks) would fit inside a 1 metre cube.

        • artefact

          Don’t forget the 20KW x-cat with a size of a cigarrette package.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Quarks are small building blocks of matter, Quark reactor are hoped to become small building blocks or modules of energy production.

  • LesioQ

    Perhaps it’s actually to be a re-invention of a …. star ! Who could patent a star (like our Sun) ?
    These two subjects (star physics & LENR) appear convergent to me …

  • TOP

    John Ernst Worrell Keely and the Keely Motor Company:
    – Wikipedia says: “Despite numerous requests from the stockholders of the Keely Motor Company, which had been established to produce a practicable motor based on his work, he consistently refused to reveal to them the principles on which his motor operated, and also repeatedly refused demands to produce a marketable product by claiming that he needed to perform more experiments.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ernst_Worrell_Keely)
    – PowerPedia says: “He performed many convincing demonstrations in his laboratory for scientists and other interested observers. He attempted to put his apparatus into commercial production, but this was hampered by the fact that it had to be tuned to the bodily vibrations of the operator and also to the surroundings.” (http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:John_Keely)

    Does this sound similar to the Rossi-IH case?
    Keely probably could tune his devices to work when he himself was present but could not give instructions to others how to do it. His opinion was that he had given sufficient instructions but if others tried to tune the device without Keely being present they could not do it with the information provided by Keely?

    One theory about the Keely Motor operating principles: http://www.svpvril.com/JKMot2.html

  • Frank

    I put this question first onto LENR Forum, but maybe here is the better place:
    Does anyone have a clue on where Rossi is currently developing his Quark-X and prepares the mass production? He claimed once he has 33 employees and many other personnel in standby (!?) waiting to setup a mass production line including worldwide sales and service…. Launching such a game changer technology won’t work with this little team so he must have at least one bigger partner that is doing business on a worldwide base and use their distribution channels. I found it also interesting to learn that he was able to design and develop his Quark-X while being under supervision (?) of IH or at least the cameras all day long at the warehouse. Hard to imagine that he had all the ressources, time, engineers (?) etc. to perform such epochal R&D work while babysitting his – sorry – IH’s 1MW plant.

    His current company / R&D location now must have offices, labs, workshops…a good number of people did a great job in unveiling the 1-year test location so maybe there is another chance to trace his current activities? He says he is playing tennis every weekend with his wife? Probably nearby where he lives / works…?

    • clovis ray

      look, if DR.Rossi, wanted you to know where he lives i’m sure he would tell you, but he does not want people like you creeping around his property, i know i certainly would not, you clandestine capers will only succeed, in making Dr.Rossi mad, and he will quit telling us anything at all, sorry for this kind of behavior, Dr R, you know how it goes soooo very well, but your day in the sun is coming, and that sun is rising.

  • F8 = ‘God willing’ I think.

    • Mike Rion

      Seems to be a short hand reference to the term “fate”.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Yes, but I think it’s a retrospective coincidence. It’s F8 just because it’s adjacent to F9, and F9 was originally suggested by a JONP reader.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Andrea Rossi March 6, 2016 at 8:55 PM “I will make further comments only after the preliminary tests will have been completed ( = F8 ).”
      http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=70#comment-1157203

      • Michel Vandenberghe

        inheritance from Old 3270 keyboard with Function keys with tags from F1 to F9…
        F1 was “Help”, a good one 🙂

      • Thanks. That seems to be definitive.

  • ‘F8’ may mean something closer to ‘God willing’ I think. Rossi is a religious man.

    • Mike Rion

      Seems to be a short hand reference to the term “fate”.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Yes, but I think it’s a retrospective coincidence. It’s F8 just because it’s adjacent to F9, and F9 was originally suggested by a JONP reader.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Andrea Rossi March 6, 2016 at 8:55 PM “I will make further comments only after the preliminary tests will have been completed ( = F8 ).”
      http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=70#comment-1157203

      • Michel Vandenberghe

        inheritance from Old 3270 keyboard with Function keys with tags from F1 to F9…
        F1 was “Help”, a good one 🙂

      • Thanks. That seems to be definitive.

    • LENR4you

      ‘F8’ –> F +eight –> fight

      • Charles

        8 is pronounced “ate”. Ergo ‘F8’ = Fate.

        How ever, did you get ight from eight. What became of the “e”?

  • Stuart Ratcliff

    Isn’t “F8” a reference to the suggestion someone once made to assign the phrase “if COP turns out to be positive,” its own key so Rossi could save himself some time from always typing it out? I remember when we were waiting for the results of the 1megawatt reactor, Rossi was always terribly coy about whether he thought the test would result in a positive COP or not.

    • DrD

      No that was F9. Pekka gave the correct (original) F8 AR definition (see below).
      EDIT: Haaa, even AR forgot his original definition, He just said it’s same as F9 but for the quark.

  • Snobben

    F8 :):):))))))

  • Samec

    what is “nobody expects” ?
    – heat ? all expect it
    – electricity ? already revealed
    – light ? mentioned 20 times

    what virtually nobody expects is LIFT i.e thrust

    • DrD

      “what virtually nobody expects is LIFT i.e thrust”
      Wrong! It DOES create thrust and he’s working on a jet engine and already tested it. There’s been much discussion about it.

      • Occams razor

        He has already claimed reactionless thrust directly from the quark. .

  • LilyLover

    Most likely a car. Not much debate needed if runs for too long for too little money.
    Proof in the pudding.
    Direct benefit.

  • literate-R

    I am a bit tired about all of rossis statements. It is indeed a real revolutionary thing, if it is possible, that every house has one or several small boxes with the size of shoebox, which produce energy. It is so fantastic, that it really seems mindblowing. And that is ALL, we could read from Rossi, until now, like his statement, where he was thinking about the so called “E-Cat-Town”…. until now we still have nothing than his “dreams”. The report is still not published, the entire topic gets ridiculous now, what a pitty.

  • wpj

    Hopefully for IH as well.

  • georgehants

    It would be very helpful and revealing if Mr. Rossi, while he works in his container keeping his secrets hidden like a Mr Scrooge, he commented on his awareness of the millions of people dying and suffering Worldwide for want of a technology like Cold Fusion.
    It would be I think, useful to understand why he feels that secrets are justified in his position and not revealing to the World his discoveries, so that thousands of others can progress his work far faster.

  • georgehants

    It would be very helpful and revealing if Mr. Rossi, while he works in his container keeping his secrets hidden like a Mr Scrooge, he commented on his awareness of the millions of people dying and suffering Worldwide for want of a technology like Cold Fusion.
    It would be I think, useful to understand why he feels that secrets are justified in his position and not revealing to the World his discoveries, so that thousands of others can progress his work far faster.

    • literate-R

      He wants to get rich by that, like steorn ( by the way, what about the o-cube tests ) ?

      • Alex Fenrick

        We are still waiting on yet another Steorn device to be sent to Frank for testing as the two devices he has do not work. There is supposedly going to be an announcement by Steorn in the next couple days on Facebook…(pretending to hold breath)

    • Pekka Janhunen

      One of the 1 MW plant pictures (http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54e38c6ce4b0b6d75a4175a7/t/54e468d1e4b0b8a8c802219c/1424266753960/1MW_Plant_Rossi.JPG?format=750w ) with its signs “Authorized personnel only”, “No trespassing” and “Keep out” indeed brings to mind Uncle Scrooge’s money bin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/matsgull/560443149/in/album-72157602185120037/ ) . Rossi keeps his tech close to chest.

      • georgehants

        Pekka, great picture of his secret vault that I suppose is full of cats all laying golden eggs, I do love cats and think they should all be free to roam and not kept prisoner.

        • Stephen

          Inspired by Rossi’s logo and the replication efforts, I once put our cat in a box with a pingpong ball. I’m pretty sure we got positive COP but SSM didn’t last very long 😉

          Seriously i guess he has some reasons for his approach perhaps to prevent patent farming companies or patent trolls getting control of LENR for their own purposes… I hope we see good things once he releases the technology. There will be the proof.

          I share your feeling, however, that those in need in the world and the world itself needs this tech now.

    • b4FreeEnergy

      Well … I guess loads of companies are guilty if you put it
      this way!

      How many discoveries which could benefit the world already
      disappeared or were made to disappear …

      And now that Rossi tries to make some money with
      his discoveries, we don’t’ accept that?

    • Hador_NYC

      George, why dont you try to replicate, and get it out there.

  • Stephen

    Although I hope its another technology breakthrough, one thing I was wondering was if it could be the price would be significantly lower than we expect or something.

    This raises an interesting philosophical question i think. If the e-cat quarks are small (like a pencil or battery) and mobile when in a passive state, would they then become used as some kind of currency based on the value of the energy they contain? I’m not sure what i think about that or even if its a good or bad thing but I think its an interesting to think about and to try and understand the consequences.

    • Steve Savage

      Interesting idea, however a great currency would need to have at least two more characteristics that the quark would not be able to supply. It needs to be divisible and easily transferable (electronically)… Think Bitcoin.

      • Stephen

        To be honest I hope it doesn’t become currency especially after what we saw happen with oil. But it is energy.

        If energy is free like air or at least very very cheap then it will no longer be comparable to currency as we would need thousands for 1 cent. i guess it won’t be free though at least initially so I hope if anyone can make a crude device it remains cheep enough and is more a people’s currency.

        • TVulgaris

          Inefficiency and waste are ALWAYS engineering concerns. Other than elegance in design, efficient devices do not require as many additional parts/systems to handle cooling and other issues such as premature wear.

  • EmTee

    The biggest surprise would be, if directly after the demonstration, a notable number of ECatX would be available for testing purpose….

    • That would go against the LENR meme of maximizing ambiguity, which is the way it’s been so far.

      Somewhere, some day, one of these players is going to drop their knickers. Maybe soon?

    • LarryJ

      The ecatX available for testing will be the one you buy at Home Depot.

      • LilyLover

        Home Depot->Old plan.
        Walmart+Amazon->New plan.

      • EmTee

        Without testing by certification bodies, there will be no way to sell it at Home Depot legally, I think, so production without certification will not work. I hope Rossi is aware of this.

  • Stephen

    Although I hope its another technology breakthrough, one thing I was wondering was if it could be that the price would be significantly lower than we expect or something.

    This raises an interesting philosophical question i think. If the e-cat quarks are small (like a pencil or battery) and mobile when in a passive state, would they then become used as some kind of currency based on the value of the energy they contain? I’m not sure what i think about that or even if its a good or bad thing but I think its an interesting to think about and to try and understand the consequences.

    On one hand the value would be in the object itself rather than speculation, on the other hand i hope LENR energy can be available to everyone especially with those most in need with very little or no cost.

    It will also be a bit weird if people organisations and governments start hoarding them in repositories rather than using them for common benefit. Perhaps they should have a designed in storage life to prevent this kind of thing.

    • Steve Savage

      Interesting idea, however a great currency would need to have at least two more characteristics that the quark would not be able to supply. It needs to be divisible and easily transferable (electronically)… Think Bitcoin.

      • Stephen

        To be honest I hope it doesn’t become currency especially after what we saw happen with oil. But it is energy.

        If energy is free like air or at least very very cheap then it will no longer be comparable to currency as we would need thousands for 1 cent. i guess it won’t be free though at least initially. As it will initially need to pay for development, production, manufacture and distribution costs. So I hope instead that if anyone can make a cruder device the manufactured device remains cheep enough and is more valued as a people’s currency. The value then would be the value of the materials and manufacture and efficiency of engineering not the value of other energy sources. At least until it becomes free.

        Free energy is not a stupid concept though think about the impact on other industries if the energy is free. Imagine steel production for example, data storage or any manufacturing process and all kinds of other spin off tech not possible with today’s energy costs.

        Would inefficiency and waste become an issue of energy is free?

        I wonder how value can be returned to the innovator though to encourage development, maybe charging for more efficient smaller higher tech devices or integrating and using the tech in other devices? is there some method we could learn from from the internet industry? Perhaps Advertisement revenue, promotion through events and exhibitions, or highly payed news articles and speeches etc

        • TVulgaris

          Inefficiency and waste are ALWAYS engineering concerns. Other than elegance in design, efficient devices do not require as many additional parts/systems to handle cooling and other issues such as premature wear.

  • bachcole

    I will be very happily surprised. But I doubt it.

    • I keep coming back to this… Rossi’s engineer: ‘I have seen things you people wouldn’t believe’

      https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/11/25/rossis-engineer-i-have-seen-things-you-people-wouldnt-believe/

      ““I have really seen… Did you see Blade Runner? The quote at the end, ‘I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe’. It’s true. I assure you that I have seen things that only I, Rossi and a few other people saw. We really saw things… I really saw the new frontier of energy. There is nothing in comparison. You cannot imagine. I speak of the E-CatX* and many others of Rossi’s experiments. We have tried lots of things, and we have made some twenty and more different reactors. And I can assure you that with some of them we have truly seen a new world. Energy density, reaction capacity, in the sense of things never seen. The new frontier of energy.”

      This is one of those logical pinch points in our grand saga. From his own words it is clear, 100% unambiguously, don’t-give-a-***-about-steam-quality clear that either the E-Cat works, or Fabiani is lying. Binary. No other remotely reasonable options.

      Now imagine the scam scenario, where Fabiani is being paid handsomely by Rossi since 2012 to perpetuate a grand lie. Why give an interview like this to Mats? What is the possible upside? There is almost zero upside. The scam scenario takes a nearly fatal blow just from this one event. Rossi’s posse of paid liars would have to include Fabiani, Levi, and Penon at a minimum. Perhaps also the NATO engineer who validated the first test in 2011 and back to Focardi too.

      Just keep all this in mind. When the naysayers throw out their smug theories about perpetual scam they are directly implying a 4+ year conspiracy by 4+ individuals all acting somewhat irrationally if the object is money. And irrationally by laying bare everything in a court of law. And we’re the crazy ones?

      • Bob K

        This interview of Fulvio Fabiani by Mats Lewan is the most compelling evidence for me of the reality of Ecat products and Andrea’s credibility.

        • Right up there with Focardi’s endorsement, the Lugano ash, the first Levi meltdown and subsequent tests, a gamma burst witnessed by early E-Cat visitors, and a happy customer with the electric bills to prove it for me.

          • bachcole

            Yes, yes, yes, but, you guys, all of you, you are mixing up my latest doubts about the newest miracles and wonders with the certainty that the original E-Cat works. Only Fulvio Fabiani has confirmed the latest miracles and wonders, and although what he has to say is very encouraging, he is an employee of Rossi. Should he come out and say that the glowing E-CatX is bogus, he would lose his job immediately. Plus there is the possibility that Fulvio is trying to support his age-related declining friend. There may be other possibilities we don’t even imagine.

            But, I repeat, what Fulvio has said is very encouraging. But I am still in uncertainty.

          • That’s a fair point.

            This may change in June with an apparent test of E-Cat X by the potential new industrialization partner. Perhaps some information will leak from that beyond Rossi’s after action report.

            One small correction though. I believe Fabiani was actually an employee of Industrial Heat whilst in the crate and at the time he gave the interview to Mats and Rossi has indicated post-lawsuit that nobody from the test remained on with Leonardo. So Fabiani may be in no-man’s land right now.

      • Occams razor

        And the complicity of the third oldest nuclesr institution on this planet. Let alone The chinese governments 2.3bn usd investment in the joint cherokee/industrial heat technology park. Then you have to discount the sweeds in thier seperate nikel hydrogen work. Let alone the massive beta decay event and the recently discovered nutrenos by mfmp. Just not possible to be a scam..

        • Totally agreed except for the certainty. Best we deal in probabilities, I think, and recognize that the information that we receive is often subject to interpretation.

          I would say that the possibility of a scam is decidedly small, perhaps vanishingly small. Not impossible. The odds of that “impossibility” may rise significantly if Industrial Heat alleges it directly in June in court and has some evidence to support it.

        • magicsnd1

          “the massive beta decay event and the recently discovered nutrenos by mfmp.”

          Sorry, this is simply not true. What we saw was a single occurrence of “Brehmstralung” x-rays. In our replication attempt we didn’t see the same unmistakable signature, and we detected only half a dozen thermal neutrons (NOT neutrinos) over five days of testing.

  • Tadej

    Maybe it produces anti-gravity, this looks like science fiction.

    • Occams razor

      He claimed reactionless thrust recently. Surprisingly this is not the first time reactionless thrust has been claimed. The BBC recently did a documentary on the EM drive, it has nothing at all to do with lner, and yet it is considered worthy of further research. It may not be real it may be a experimental error. I find Authur C. Clark’s 3 rules helpful..

      Clarke’s first law
      When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
      Clarke’s second law
      The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
      Clarke’s third law
      Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

      Science fiction has so far been a excellent predictor of future technology.

      • Turned out he didn’t mean reactionless thrust a la the Em Drive. He was just saying that there was no need for traditional propellant — that it could work by heating air.

  • Engineer48

    You see these? Do you know that they were designed for?

    While I don’t know for sure, what I see is a HotCat/QuarkX reactor sitting inside those stainless enclosing tubes, which are installed inside the side walls of a 600C steam boiler, thus eliminating the need for a heat exchanger (steam boiler and high temp circulating fluids).

    This way there is no circulating fluid needed as the HotCat directly heats the stainless enclosure, which then heats the surrounding water.

    Could maybe even be installed into an existing coal powered boiler.

    Looking at the flange thickness, mounting holes and 4 long bolts, would suggest this unit was designed for a test with industry in someone else’s test 600C boiler.

    No one would waste the money nor time in doing a design like this unless the COP was high enough to allow the product to enter the market.

    • Owen Geiger

      And this is his old design… The quarx are way more advanced from what he says.

    • US_Citizen71

      My guess is those were half of the six pack that made up the 1MW plant. The design does look like it might fit into standard electric boiler mounts.

      • Engineer48

        I might suggest IH and Rossi may have a wide range of electric / gas boiler heater replacements elements / units ready to roll out.

        Just disconnect, unbolt and slide out the gas or electric heater and slide in the ECat or HotCat/QuarkX replacement, seal, bolt it in, connect it up and you are good to go powering your boiler with a low cost non fossil heat source.

        Nice way to enter the thermal heat market.

    • Do you also notice that they are STAR connected?
      3phase AC supply, Maybe…..

      • Engineer48

        Yes, would seem so.

        Large industrial customers would like to see how they 3 phase balance and that there are no large Neutral currents nor bad Power Factors they would need to pay for with high Peak Demand charges from bad power factors.

    • wpj

      Those were definitely pre-quark.

  • Charles

    8 is pronounced “ate”. Ergo ‘F8’ = Fate.

    How ever, did you get ight from eight. What became of the “e”?

  • I keep coming back to this… Rossi’s engineer: ‘I have seen things you people wouldn’t believe’

    https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/11/25/rossis-engineer-i-have-seen-things-you-people-wouldnt-believe/

    ““I have really seen… Did you see Blade Runner? The quote at the end, ‘I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe’. It’s true. I assure you that I have seen things that only I, Rossi and a few other people saw. We really saw things… I really saw the new frontier of energy. There is nothing in comparison. You cannot imagine. I speak of the E-CatX* and many others of Rossi’s experiments. We have tried lots of things, and we have made some twenty and more different reactors. And I can assure you that with some of them we have truly seen a new world. Energy density, reaction capacity, in the sense of things never seen. The new frontier of energy.”

    This is one of those logical pinch points in our grand saga. From his own words it is clear, 100% unambiguously, don’t-give-a-***-about-steam-quality clear that either the E-Cat works, or Fabiani is lying. Binary. No other remotely reasonable options.

    Now imagine the scam scenario, where Fabiani is being paid handsomely by Rossi since 2012 to perpetuate a grand lie. Why give an interview like this to Mats? What is the possible upside? There is almost zero upside. The scam scenario takes a nearly fatal blow just from this one event. Rossi’s posse of paid liars would have to include Fabiani, Levi, and Penon at a minimum. Perhaps also the NATO engineer who validated the first test in 2011 and back to Focardi too.

    Just keep all this in mind. When the naysayers throw out their smug theories about perpetual scam they are directly implying a 4+ year conspiracy by 4+ individuals all acting somewhat irrationally if the object is money. And irrationally by laying bare everything in a court of law. And we’re the crazy ones?

    • Bob K

      This interview of Fulvio Fabiani by Mats Lewan is the most compelling evidence for me of the reality of Ecat products and Andrea’s credibility.

      • Right up there with Focardi’s endorsement, the Lugano ash, the first Levi meltdown and subsequent tests, a gamma burst witnessed by early E-Cat visitors, and a happy customer with the electric bills to prove it for me.

    • Occams razor

      And the complicity of the third oldest nuclesr institution on this planet. Let alone The chinese governments 2.3bn usd investment in the joint cherokee/industrial heat technology park. Then you have to discount the sweeds in thier seperate nikel hydrogen work. Let alone the massive beta decay event and the recently discovered nutrenos by mfmp. Just not possible to be a scam..

      • Totally agreed except for the certainty. Best we deal in probabilities, I think, and recognize that the information that we receive is often subject to interpretation.

        I would say that the possibility of a scam is decidedly small, perhaps vanishingly small. Not impossible. The odds of that “impossibility” may rise significantly if Industrial Heat alleges it directly in June in court and has some evidence to support it.

      • magicsnd1

        “the massive beta decay event and the recently discovered nutrenos by mfmp.”

        Sorry, this is simply not true. What we saw was a single occurrence of “Brehmstralung” x-rays. In our replication attempt we didn’t see the same unmistakable signature, and we detected only half a dozen thermal neutrons (NOT neutrinos) over five days of testing.

  • I have been following the news about the E-cat since 2011 and there always seems to be some new device, or some new exiting date a few months from now to look forward to, but never anything conclusive. That makes me more and more skeptical for each time a new “exiting” device or test are “just around the corner”

    In 2011 Rossi stated that his E-Cat had heated his office for many months. If it worked so well back then why havent that been commercialized yet? Furthermore in 2012-2013 he stated that he was building a robotized factory(2 infact), and he had a new so called HotCat device that could produce electricity and not just heat. That factory didnt happen either even though he stated construction was already underway.

    There was a very interesting semi public test i think around 2014 where Mats Lewan was invited, but the way the test was handled couldnt confirm that the E-cat/hotcat worked properly. Many here on the site and other places had very good solutions to how the test could be handled to confirm with absolute certainty that the E-cat/hotcat worked. But for some reason they made the measurement in a way that you couldnt use the test to confirm if the device was working or not.

    • Rossi has exposed E-Cats to testing by others on multiple occasions, both for investment and science.

      The long duration Lugano tests went on for months by scientists in Europe, thousands of miles away from Rossi. The results (if flawed heat-wise) were made public and contained incontrovertible proof of nuclear events in the ash.

      The recently concluded 1 year 1 MW plant test had constant supervision by an agreed-upon third party conducting measurements and also the presence of Industrial Heat employees throughout the test. Not to mention an actual customer of the heat, which is something that has not been fully verified yet.

      Both Industrial Heat and Woodford have stated directly that they did their due diligence and had their own independent experts validate the technology before investing their money.

      If every positive result is discarded as fatally flawed and every person or group that comes in contact with Rossi and subsequently supports him is presumed crooked and Rossi is imagined as the premier scam artist in the history of the world capable of prescience and expert-level deception then I guess one can get one’s mind where yours seems to be.

      Just be aware that you are promoting a far-fetched conspiracy theory.

  • US_Citizen71

    The surprise could be a table top demonstrator suitable for in courtroom use. Smaller than a flashlight and capable of powering a light bulb for months on end, maybe?

    • Owen Geiger

      That would be worth 89 million.

    • Private Citizen

      “Surprise” model F8 probably inadmissible: what IH is claiming is that the IP given them previously did not work.

      • Engineer48

        If the IP did not work, why then did IH go to all the expense and engineering time to design, develop, manufacture and ship to the Lugano testers a HotCat Dog Bone LENR reactor they knew did not work?

        • Private Citizen

          Regardless, Lugano doesn’t make Quark admissible as evidence original E-Cat IP worked.

          But perhaps IH calculated that the upside of miracle LENR, thus far not rigorously independently tested, was worth an $11 million gamble, so they agreed to build and test?

          • Steve Savage

            Fault IH for sure, in court, if it were my $11,000,000.00 they so casually risked. However, it does appear that IH went to some great lengths to do more than adequate due diligence. This is not about whether or not the E-cat works. It does work. This is about the e-Cat X…

          • Engineer48

            As one who has developed products, this is not a straight line process. Prototypes are built and test results are folded back into design changes again and again until the final results achieved the design goal.

            I can see no way IH could straight line manufacture the Dog Bone Hot Cat reactor from cold, never test it in house and then ship it off to Lugano for final test as that would be complete madness.

            Same goes for the 1MW side wall mounted 1MW backup reactor and the prime central island mounted 4 x 250kWt reactor used in the 1 year test. Massive product development involved with both reactor designs. Again no way IH designed, developed and built all this product in Raleigh and then shipped it, non tested, to Doral.

            Or is IH, from what has been, said a company which ships untested product? I suggest not.

          • US_Citizen71

            IH is likely just like the rest of Cherokee’s investments. A paper shuffling endeavor. None of Cherokee’s other investments actually do anything other than manage a project for a fee, everything is farmed out. This makes it so much easier to bleed a bond dry and then move on by bankrupting the management company. If a brownfield actually get remediated in the process it is just a happy coincidence. Do a little research on the outcome of Cherokee’s endeavors you’ll likely be surprised on how many end up bankrupt. You will also likely be shocked by how many oil companies they partner with in the process.

          • TVulgaris

            Partnering with oil companies, which typically own downstream industries in transmission, processing, distribution, etc., and other extraction operations (coal and gas) is the most logical course for a company in brown-field remediation- so that’s no smoking gun.
            Consistency in generating bankruptcies IS, however- Darden, et al, should consider politics as a future carer.

          • Engineer48

            From what I know IH has designed, developed & manufactured 3 versions of ECat reactors:

            1) HotCat Dog Bone reactor as shipped to Lugano.

            2) 1MWt side wall mounted ECat reactor as used for backup in the 1 tear test.

            3) 1MWt central island mounted as 4 x 250kWt horizontal slab reactor as used for prime heat generation in the 1 year test.

            That is a LOT money and engineering hours to spend on product to design, develop, test and manufacture if at no time was there never any excess heat. That is just so hard to accept.

  • US_Citizen71

    The surprise could be a table top demonstrator suitable for in courtroom use. Smaller than a flashlight and capable of powering a light bulb for months on end, maybe?

    • Owen Geiger

      That would be worth 89 million.

    • Private Citizen

      “Surprise” model F8 probably inadmissible: what IH is claiming is that the IP given them previously did not work.

      • Engineer48

        If the IP did not work, why then did IH go to all the expense and engineering time to design, develop, manufacture and ship to the Lugano testers a HotCat Dog Bone LENR reactor they knew did not work?

        • Private Citizen

          Regardless, Lugano doesn’t make Quark admissible as evidence original E-Cat IP worked.

          But perhaps IH calculated that the upside of miracle LENR, thus far not rigorously independently tested, was worth an $11 million gamble, so they agreed to build and test?

          • Steve Savage

            Fault IH for sure, in court, if it were my $11,000,000.00 they so casually risked. However, it does appear that IH went to some great lengths to do more than adequate due diligence. This is not about whether or not the E-cat works. It does work. This is about the e-Cat X…

          • clovis ray

            yep, all or nothing,

          • Engineer48

            As one who has developed products, this is not a straight line process. Prototypes are built and test results are folded back into design changes again and again until the final results achieved the design goal.

            I can see no way IH could straight line manufacture the Dog Bone Hot Cat reactor from cold, never test it in house and then ship it off to Lugano for final test as that would be complete madness.

            Same goes for the 1MW side wall mounted 1MW backup reactor and the prime central island mounted 4 x 250kWt reactor used in the 1 year test. Massive product development involved with both reactor designs. Again no way IH designed, developed and built all this product in Raleigh and then shipped it, non tested, to Doral.

            Or is IH, from what has been, said a company which ships untested product? I suggest not.

          • US_Citizen71

            IH is likely just like the rest of Cherokee’s investments. A paper shuffling endeavor. None of Cherokee’s other investments actually do anything other than manage a project for a fee, everything is farmed out. This makes it so much easier to bleed a bond dry and then move on by bankrupting the management company. If a brownfield actually get remediated in the process it is just a happy coincidence. Do a little research on the outcome of Cherokee’s endeavors you’ll likely be surprised on how many end up bankrupt. You will also likely be shocked by how many oil companies they partner with in the process.

          • TVulgaris

            Partnering with oil companies, which typically own downstream industries in transmission, processing, distribution, etc., and other extraction operations (coal and gas) is the most logical course for a company in brown-field remediation- so that’s no smoking gun.
            Consistency in generating bankruptcies IS, however- Darden, et al, should consider politics as a future carer.

          • Engineer48

            From what I know IH has designed, developed & manufactured 3 versions of ECat reactors:

            1) HotCat Dog Bone reactor as shipped to Lugano.

            2) 1MWt side wall mounted ECat reactor as used for backup in the 1 tear test.

            3) 1MWt central island mounted as 4 x 250kWt horizontal slab reactor as used for prime heat generation in the 1 year test.

            That is a LOT money and engineering hours to spend on product to design, develop, test and manufacture if at no time was there never any excess heat. That is just so hard to accept.

  • Gerard McEk

    The surprise will probably be more like this: ‘He, he, he, I fooled you (and IH), he, he, he, just to anoy Darden, he, he, he, it does not exist, he he!’
    I won’t laugh….

    • Steve Savage

      Ye of little faith, I don’t know much, but I do know this, unless Rossi is a complete whacko (which of course he is most definitely not) there is no way that he is doing or thinking any such thing.

      • Gerard McEk

        Yes I’m a bit sceptical lately. Andrea has been prommissing so much the five years I follow him, but I believe he has neglected his followers, by not really openly demonstrate these E-cats. Lugano was convincing, at first, but later were many doubts and no efforts were made to counter these. What withholds him of doing a proper demonstration of just the COP? I believe that such a test is very supportive on his court case as well as for selling his E-cats. I do hope he will give a real proper demo soon.

  • Gerard McEk

    The surprise will probably be more like this: ‘He, he, he, I fooled you (and IH), he, he, he, just to anoy Darden, he, he, he, it does not exist, he he!’
    I won’t laugh….

    • Steve Savage

      Ye of little faith, I don’t know much, but I do know this, unless Rossi is a complete whacko (which of course he is most definitely not) there is no way that he is doing or thinking any such thing.

      • Gerard McEk

        Yes I’m a bit cynical lately. Andrea has been prommissing so much the five years I follow him, but I believe he has neglected his followers, by not really openly demonstrate these E-cats. Lugano was convincing, at first, but later were many doubts and no efforts were made to counter these. What withholds him of doing a proper demonstration of just the COP? I believe that such a test is very supportive on his court case as well as for selling his E-cats. I do hope he will give a real proper demo soon.

  • Rossi has exposed E-Cats to testing by others on multiple occasions, both for investment and science.

    The long duration Lugano tests went on for months by scientists in Europe, thousands of miles away from Rossi. The results (if flawed heat-wise) were made public and contained incontrovertible proof of nuclear events in the ash.

    The recently concluded 1 year 1 MW plant test had constant supervision by an agreed-upon third party conducting measurements and also the presence of Industrial Heat employees throughout the test. Not to mention an actual customer of the heat, which is something that has not been fully verified yet.

    Both Industrial Heat and Woodford have stated directly that they did their due diligence and had their own independent experts validate the technology before investing their money.

    If every positive result is discarded as fatally flawed and every person or group that comes in contact with Rossi and subsequently supports him is presumed crooked and Rossi is imagined as the premier scam artist in the history of the world capable of prescience and expert-level deception then I guess one can get his mind where yours seems to be.

    Just be aware that you are promoting a far-fetched conspiracy theory.

  • Engineer48

    Bit Off Topic but here is an image of the Brillouin 600C Hot Tube LENR reactor.

    For sure there could be a HotCat DogBone like reactor inside the housing.

    • It is interesting that all of a sudden everyone’s designs seem to be converging.

      If Industrial Heat took their newfound knowledge of Rossi’s IP and pivoted to making Brillouin their main hope for marketing the technology (thus necessitating delaying Rossi by any means necessary) then, well…

      I guess that’s “just business” but I would personally find that reprehensible and they shoudl all be ashamed of themselves.

      • Engineer48

        As an engineer, this design is superior for use as a replacement boiler heater element. Needing to run fluid through the reactor, as in the HHT boiler pictured above, is just so yesterday.

        • May I ask where you got that picture? I don’t recall seeing it before.

          Is it from the Capitol Hill show and tell?

          • Engineer48
          • Oh boy. Larouche PAC. That’s all we need… another dose of fringe seasoning for our fringe casserole.

            But thank you: interesting picture and article from Brillouin’s December coming out party.

          • Engineer48

            Don’t know who or what Larouche PAC are?

            Aussie is a long way from the US media machine.

          • LaRouche has been around quite awhile in US politics and is considered a fringe figure best avoided.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche

          • Do you doubt he had a meeting with ABB?

            I mean we have no proof of that meeting but he seldom lies about things like that.

          • Go to Rossi’s online Journal of Nuclear Physics.
            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892#comments

            Scroll to the bottom. Enter your name and ask your question.

      • Engineer48

        You do understand that, according to my bush lawyer understanding of the contract between IH and Leonardo, as soon as IH or any associated entity invested in another LENR entity or IH or any associated entity shared IP with another LENR entity they were in Default of their contract and all their rights to the licensed Leonardo IP were terminated as per the Default clause in the contract, as well they had to restrain from doing any business in the LENR industry.

        From what I have read of statements made by Darden, it would suggest they cared very little for their contractual obligations under the signed and executed contract and seemly openly revealed their investment in other LENR entities.

        • Hmm. Not a lawyer but I didn’t get that from reading the agreement. To me the wording of the agreement seems to give IH the right to do whatever they wanted with the IP once purchased… at least in their territory.

          I didn’t see any restriction on what they could do with it.

          Perhaps you can reference specific paragraphs?

          • Engineer48

            3.1 clearly says the cost for the license is $100.5m and not the $11.5M IH reportedly has paid. As IH apparently has not paid Leonardo $100.5m, they would seem to have no licensed IP to use. Here it is also clear IH did not buy the IP but instead has a conditional license for it’s use.

            13.3 covers the Covenant Not To Compete and states the action after a Default.

          • They are withholding payment because they are asserting fraud. They will need to prove that in order not to pay. Assuming a positive test report the onus will be on IH to prove otherwise.

            If the agreement stands then IH has licensed the IP and can use it without restriction. If the only restriction you can find is that the agreement may no longer be valid, that’s apples and oranges.

          • Engineer48

            When did IH assert fraud? I’m sure they understand civil defamation laws and isn’t fraud a criminal matter in the US?

          • If the report says COP 50 and they say no we can prove COP <=1, then they are asserting fraud (cause nobody makes a 50x measurement error for a year).

            All we have is their press release directly but that's been the scuttlebutt through their intermediaries. We wait for IH's official position.

          • Brent Buckner

            So are you abandoning your claim that “as soon as IH or any associated entity invested in another LENR entity
            or IH or any associated entity shared Leonardo licensed IP with another LENR entity they were in Default”?

          • Engineer48

            It would seem IH are not restricted from investing in other LENR companies but under Clause 1, IH have no ability to share the licensed Rossi/Leonardo IP with anyone.

            Additionally Clause 3.1 requires IH to pay $100.5m to finalise the license and enjoy the right to use the licensed IP. As IH have not paid the required $100.5m, they may be seen as having no rights to the contracted conditions binding on Leonardo/Rossi.

          • Brent Buckner

            Under Clause 1 IH has the right to sublicense – are you asserting that sublicensing does not encompass what you refer to as sharing?
            Also, note that Paragraph 101 of Rossi’s Complaint asserts that by becoming an exclusive licensee that IH assumed a fiduciary duty, not that sharing the E-Cat IP was in violation of any particular section of the License Agreement.

          • Engineer48

            IH can only sublicense their rights as per Clause 1, which do not include sharing the IP but only using it to manufacture product.

          • Engineer48

            Clause 1 https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/402504261bd56c6dadfb501d00ccbef043deec1928986685818f215d747621e5.jpg

            Licensed rights that the licensed IP can be used for are manufacturing. IH have no right to deal with the licensed IP.

          • Brent Buckner

            Clause 1 includes “develop”.

          • Engineer48

            Sure IH has the right to develop new products using the licensed IP, which they did for the HotCat Dog Bone reactor.

            They also developed and manufactured the side wall mounted backup 1MWt reactor and the central island 4 x 250kWt slab reactor.

            But they have no right to share the IP.

          • Brent Buckner

            As Rossi’s complaint did not assert that sharing the IP violated the text of the License Agreement, but rather that it violated a fiduciary duty, I am confident that sharing the IP did not violate the text of the License Agreement.

            As IH has the right to develop new products using the licensed IP I believe that the text of the License Agreement allows IH to sublicense the IP to develop of new product.

          • Engineer48

            Would agree that IH does appear to have the right to sublicense development, which may be a weakness in the contract.

            However under clause 3.1, they have not made the required payment of $100.5m to enjoy the rights under clause 1.

          • Josh G

            On the other hand, section 3.2(b) states quite unambiguously that the license commences as soon as IH made the second payment of $10million, even though the “total price” for the grant of the license is $100.5 million.

          • DrD

            Obviously the license lapses.

          • Josh G

            What do you mean?

          • DrD

            Licenses to use patented technology can have a begining and an end.
            IF and I emphasize “IF” the contract was that the license was granted for the full $100.5m then although it started as stated and then the balance is due within 5 days of the ERV report meeting the agreed criterion but the due balance wasn’t made then they no longer have any further rights to use the license.

          • Josh G

            Well, that’s what they have to establish in court. Rossi says IH didn’t live up to their end of the contract, and IH is going to argue that Rossi didn’t live up to his end. In the meantime, the contract is still in force…

          • Couple of points. The Lugano ash is scientific proof of nuclear activity, unless Rossi doctored the sample.

            But you are right, because the devices are closely held it has been impossible to achieve scientific confirmation across an acceptable number of independent experiments. E-Cats are not scientifically proven to the scientific community nor the general population. They are not. But that’s not period end of story. There is much going on here and just because there is no proof for us at large doesn’t mean that other people don’t have proof. Surely you can see *something* is happening. If you are convinced Rossi deceives us all, focus your attention on all the other players. Start with Brillouin who also claims independent verification of a LENR+ device. Or Lenuco. Or Clean Planet. Or Piantelli and Nichenergy. Or Celani.

            It becomes harder and harder to imagine it all away the more you research. And once you reach that conclusion you come back to Rossi, and it’s obvious that he has what he says or something close to it, despite the setbacks and the drama.

          • DrD

            That would not be my interpretation. I would think that once the payement became due and wasn’t made, then at that time the contract became null and void. That’s the status quo and I even think that AR had no obligation to sue. No doubt legal action might follow, instigated by either party depending upon what happened next e.g. if IH (or others) started to sell heaters using his technolgy. Obviously, this assumes the contract does require the third installment to be completed. Anyway, the Jury will decide now.

          • help_lenr

            Apparently not power chip – because power chip is thermionic current and rossi said his electricity is not thermionic.

          • Eol Awki

            I must say that at this point my biggest surprise will be if we ever see the report on the test, or even get a statement from the mysterious customer. Rossi follows one announcement with another, with another, each adding capability to the technology – each time all attention is diverted to the new announcement with yesterday’s promises fading into the past.

            Where is the report on the independent test?

          • If the industrialization partner can make X by hoarding the technology to themselves, they can make 1000X++ by licensing or selling the devices.

          • LuFong

            Paragraph 3.2: “On the date the Escrow Agent pays $10,000,000 to Leonardo, the License will commence and Leonardo and Rossi will immediately transfer … to the Company all E-Cat IP” [emphasis mine]

            I think we should leave this to the courts to decide. I’m surprised Frank is allowing you to argue the court case on these pages as he has explicity said he won’t allow it.

          • Engineer48

            Hey, I’m just quoting what is in the claim.

          • Engineer48

            You are right.

            I will stick to engineering issues and what they reveal.

          • DrD

            Ah but that only defines the start. Therefore if another payment is due and defaulted on, then the it seems obvious that the license lapses. As you say the court will rule on that.

          • Well then you’re calling much of Western civilization fools because we’ve risen to relative prosperity based on those principles.

          • Buck

            But at what cost?

            it has been repeatedly shown through census and population statistics that we are the most overweight, drug addicted, unhappiest, most incarcerated, most depressed cohort. Look it up as it presents a very sad story.

          • Free to make poor choices : )

          • Buck

            And in that one virtue rests the genesis for the need of government as a means to balance these opposing forces.

          • Alright. It’s kind of a non-issue for me.

            If it comes up again at a later time I’ll say prove it and who cares.

          • Michael W Wolf

            If rossi has a sycophant alter ego. that is a demonstration of Rossi’s ability to deceive. It is very important I think.

          • Timar

            Rather of his INability to deceive. Even with something as simple as fabricating a fake question in a way that it doesn’t immediately jumps at you as being fabricated. Exactly what you would expect from a master fraudster like him 😉

          • LarryJ

            In the empire perhaps but there is more to the free world than just the empire.

          • Jarea

            That was done with real capitalism and not with this current corrupted capitalism where the richs protect each other.
            They dont want competency at any cost, they destroy them either by buying startups (Hostile takeovers), pattenting trolling for many years, destroying the new ideas, controlling th media, and more. This is again not the capitalism of Adam S.
            In the area of energy this is more evident, so yes Rossi could be a fool fighting against giants

          • I agree that our current system of capitalism has many flaws.

            The massive income inequality, not seen since just before the great depression, has warped our politics and walled off more and more money from the public good and its hoarding is stealing the lifeblood from our economy.

            But *fair* competition is a good model, at least in this era of relative scarcity before (we hope) an age of abundance which could alter things dramatically.

            But everyone has their own opinions about economics and politics based on their own upbringing, environment and observations and nobody is absolutely right or absolutely wrong.

          • sam

            I think A.R would be wise not to discourage
            the Hank Mills of the U.S and
            with there help the Giants might not
            get there way.

        • Brent Buckner

          Note that Section 13.3 of the License Agreement enjoins Rossi/LC, not IH, until such time as IH breaches the License Agreement.

          • US_Citizen71

            Nonpayment would be a breach and the QuarkX is still an unproven experiment and thus beyond the scope of the contract.

          • Brent Buckner

            I agree respective of non-payment, but do not agree respective of your second point as I believe that Section 13.4 encompasses the QuarkX.

          • US_Citizen71

            It is not an improvement until it has been proven to work, so it still completely out of scope of the contract. Since the breach occurred before the QuarkX has been proven to work it will likely be forbidden fruit for IH if the court rules in Rossi’s favor.

          • Frank Acland
        • Brent Buckner

          Also note that Section 16.4 of the License Agreement requires Rossi/LC to maintain confidentiality of the E-Cat IP, but none of us have found any reciprocal obligation on IH to maintain confidentiality of the E-Cat IP.

      • sam

        Larry Schwartz
        May 3, 2016 at 2:34 AM
        Dear Andrea Rossi:
        Are you sure that Brillouin has succeded in replicating the Rossi effect ?
        They have always worked on the electrolytic field, their patent applications, even the more recent, speak in this sense. How could they all in the sudden pass to the hot cat model successfully ?
        Thanks,
        Larry

        Andrea Rossi
        May 3, 2016 at 6:57 AM
        Larry Schwartz:
        I think so, after their publication. The sudden switch from electolysys to my effect is easy to explicate with their partnership with IH. In fact, the switch of Brillouin from the electrolysys to the hot cat model happened after their agreement with IH. This is a fact, not an assumption.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        • Yes, very suspect.

          However, I do remember Brillouin talking about experimenting with new powder designs a number of years ago. Now that may be as a result of their initial involvement with IH, but the timeline is murky enough for me that I can’t reach any definitive conclusions as Rossi seems to have.

          • TVulgaris

            “Larry”‘s phrasing is telling, don’t you think?

          • Not sure what you’re getting at. Are you implying that Rossi wrote the question?

          • Michael W Wolf

            Well, if the new Jacky can imitate Rossi, so could the original Jacky. Seems to me Alex, if Jacky was Rossi, he wouldn’t have published the new Jacky imposture. Maybe it is part of Ih’s PR firm, doing it to have people accuse Rossi of exactly what you are accusing him of. When did this Rossi like Jacky Appear? The original Jacky.

          • TVulgaris

            There seems to be a similar clumsiness in colloquial usage and phrasing, don’t you think?

          • TVulgaris

            This in no way negates whatever real information might exist in the exchange- perhaps to lend Rossi’s opinion some more weight that Godes does not have original IP ready for demonstration. If I remember 3 years ago clearly enough, though, Dr. McKubre stated they (Brilluoin) DID have test cells good for demos, and they weren’t electrolytic (much confusion here over IP protection, I’m extending from other statement he made then)- long before any dealings with IH.
            Rossi may in fact be a huge storyteller/liar/exaggerator like so many of my Italian friends over the years- and still be The Man, the originator of this device that could save the world. He could be the most cunning sociopath, having completely hoodwinked hundreds, if not thousands, of people over the years, including scientists and financial people and a host of social acquaintances- and still have invented this LENR device.

    • Steve Savage

      Look at that “MADE IN USA” sticker…. I wonder if those who attended were impressed by that less than subtle message.

      • I can imagine the Brillouin team sitting around the table in a conference room in early December game planning their day on Capitol Hill.

        “It’s just a metal tube. They won’t know what they’re looking at.”

        “Well, maybe we can spice it up somehow. Put some labels on it.”

        “MADE IN THE USA!”

        “That’s it!”

        And Godes shaking his head as he leaves the room to get another cup of coffee.

      • psi2u2

        I can’t help but remember Hillary Clinton’s comment about revolutionary energy technology that “should be made in the US.”

    • magicsnd1

      The Brillouin hot tube is actually nothing like Rossi’s design. Look at Figures 7-10 of the recent patent application: http://www.google.com/patents/US20140332087

  • Engineer48

    Bit Off Topic but here is an image of the Brillouin 600C HHT (Hydrogen Hot Tube) LENR reactor.

    For sure there could be a HotCat Dog Bone like reactor inside the housing.

    • It is interesting that all of a sudden everyone’s designs seem to be converging.

      If Industrial Heat took their newfound knowledge of Rossi’s IP and pivoted to making Brillouin their main hope for marketing the technology (thus necessitating delaying Rossi by any means necessary) then, well…

      I guess that’s “just business” but I would personally find that reprehensible and they should all be ashamed of themselves.

      • Engineer48

        As an engineer, this design is superior for use as a replacement boiler heater element. Needing to run fluid through the reactor, as in the HHT boiler pictured above, is just so yesterday.

        • May I ask where you got that picture? I don’t recall seeing it before.

          Is it from the Capitol Hill show and tell?

          • Engineer48
          • Oh boy. Larouche PAC. That’s all we need… another dose of fringe seasoning for our fringe casserole.

            But thank you: interesting picture and article from Brillouin’s December coming out party.

          • Engineer48

            Don’t know who or what Larouche PAC are?

            Aussie is a long way from the US media machine.

          • LaRouche has been around quite awhile in US politics and is considered a fringe figure best avoided.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche

      • Engineer48

        You do understand that, according to my bush lawyer understanding of the contract between IH and Leonardo, as soon as IH or any associated entity invested in another LENR entity or IH or any associated entity shared Leonardo licensed IP with another LENR entity they were in Default of their contract and all their rights to the licensed Leonardo IP were terminated as per the Default clause in the contract, as well they had to restrain from doing any business in the LENR industry.

        From what I have read of statements made by Darden, it would suggest they cared very little for their contractual obligations under the signed and executed contract and seemly openly revealed their investment in and involvement with other LENR entities.

        • Hmm. Not a lawyer but I didn’t get that from reading the agreement. To me the wording of the agreement seems to give IH the right to do whatever they wanted with the IP once purchased… at least in their territory.

          I didn’t see any restriction on what they could do with it.

          Perhaps you can reference specific paragraphs?

          • Engineer48

            3.1 clearly says the cost for the license is $100.5m and not the $11.5M IH reportedly has paid. As IH apparently has not paid Leonardo $100.5m, they would seem to have no licensed IP to use. Here it is also clear IH did not buy the IP but instead has a conditional license for it’s use.

            13.3 covers the Covenant Not To Compete and states the action after a Default.

          • They are withholding payment because they are asserting fraud. They will need to prove that in order not to pay. Assuming a positive test report the onus will be on IH to prove otherwise.

            If the agreement stands then IH has licensed the IP and can use it without restriction. If the only restriction you can find is that the agreement may no longer be valid, that’s apples and oranges.

          • Engineer48

            When did IH assert fraud? I’m sure they understand civil defamation laws and isn’t fraud a criminal matter in the US?

          • If the report says COP 50 and they say no we can prove COP <=1, then they are asserting fraud (cause nobody makes a 50x measurement error for a year).

            All we have is their press release directly but that's been the scuttlebutt through their intermediaries. We wait for IH's official position.

          • Brent Buckner

            So are you abandoning your claim that “as soon as IH or any associated entity invested in another LENR entity
            or IH or any associated entity shared Leonardo licensed IP with another LENR entity they were in Default”?

          • Engineer48

            It would seem IH are not restricted from investing in other LENR companies but under Clause 1, IH have no ability to share the licensed Rossi/Leonardo IP with anyone.

            Additionally Clause 3.1 requires IH to pay $100.5m to finalise the license and enjoy the right to use the licensed IP. As IH have not paid the required $100.5m, they may be seen as having no rights to the contracted conditions binding on Leonardo/Rossi.

          • Brent Buckner

            Under Clause 1 IH has the right to sublicense – are you asserting that sublicensing does not encompass what you refer to as sharing?
            Also, note that Paragraph 101 of Rossi’s Complaint asserts that by becoming an exclusive licensee that IH assumed a fiduciary duty, not that sharing the E-Cat IP was in violation of any particular section of the License Agreement.

          • Engineer48

            IH can only sublicense their rights as per Clause 1, which do not include sharing the IP but only using it to manufacture product.

          • Engineer48

            Clause 1 https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/402504261bd56c6dadfb501d00ccbef043deec1928986685818f215d747621e5.jpg

            Licensed rights that the licensed IP can be used for are manufacturing. IH have no right to deal with the licensed IP.

          • Brent Buckner

            Clause 1 includes “develop”.

          • Engineer48

            Sure IH has the right to develop new products using the licensed IP, which they did for the HotCat Dog Bone reactor.

            They also developed and manufactured the side wall mounted backup 1MWt reactor and the central island 4 x 250kWt slab reactor.

            But they have no right to share the IP.

          • Brent Buckner

            As Rossi’s complaint did not assert that sharing the IP violated the text of the License Agreement, but rather that it violated a fiduciary duty, I am confident that sharing the IP did not violate the text of the License Agreement.

            As IH has the right to develop new products using the licensed IP I believe that the text of the License Agreement allows IH to sublicense the IP to develop of new product.

          • Engineer48

            Would agree that IH does appear to have the right to sublicense development, which may be a weakness in the contract.

            However under Clause 3.1, they have not made the required payment of $100.5m to enjoy the rights under Clause 1.

          • Josh G

            On the other hand, section 3.2(b) states quite unambiguously that the license commences as soon as IH made the second payment of $10million, even though the “total price” for the grant of the license is $100.5 million.

          • DrD

            Obviously the license lapses.

          • Josh G

            What do you mean?

          • DrD

            Licenses to use patented technology can have a begining and an end.
            IF and I emphasize “IF” the contract was that the license was granted for the full $100.5m then although it started as stated and then the balance is due within 5 days of the ERV report meeting the agreed criterion but the due balance wasn’t made then they no longer have any further rights to use the license.

          • Josh G

            Well, that’s what they have to establish in court. Rossi says IH didn’t live up to their end of the contract, and IH is going to argue that Rossi didn’t live up to his end. In the meantime, the contract is still in force…

          • DrD

            That would not be my interpretation. I would think that once the payement became due and wasn’t made, then at that time the contract became null and void. That’s the status quo and I even think that AR had no obligation to sue. No doubt legal action might follow, instigated by either party depending upon what happened next e.g. if IH (or others) started to sell heaters using his technolgy. Obviously, this assumes the contract does require the third installment to be completed. Anyway, the Jury will decide now.

        • Brent Buckner

          Note that Section 13.3 of the License Agreement enjoins Rossi/LC, not IH, until such time as IH breaches the License Agreement.

          • US_Citizen71

            Nonpayment would be a breach and the QuarkX is still an unproven experiment and thus beyond the scope of the contract.

          • Brent Buckner

            I agree respective of non-payment, but do not agree respective of your second point as I believe that Section 13.4 encompasses the QuarkX.

          • US_Citizen71

            It is not an improvement until it has been proven to work, so it still completely out of scope of the contract. Since the breach occurred before the QuarkX has been proven to work it will likely be forbidden fruit for IH if the court rules in Rossi’s favor.

        • Brent Buckner

          Also note that Section 16.4 of the License Agreement requires Rossi/LC to maintain confidentiality of the E-Cat IP, but none of us have found any reciprocal obligation on IH to maintain confidentiality of the E-Cat IP.

      • sam

        Larry Schwartz
        May 3, 2016 at 2:34 AM
        Dear Andrea Rossi:
        Are you sure that Brillouin has succeded in replicating the Rossi effect ?
        They have always worked on the electrolytic field, their patent applications, even the more recent, speak in this sense. How could they all in the sudden pass to the hot cat model successfully ?
        Thanks,
        Larry

        Andrea Rossi
        May 3, 2016 at 6:57 AM
        Larry Schwartz:
        I think so, after their publication. The sudden switch from electolysys to my effect is easy to explicate with their partnership with IH. In fact, the switch of Brillouin from the electrolysys to the hot cat model happened after their agreement with IH. This is a fact, not an assumption.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        • Yes, very suspect.

          However, I do remember Brillouin talking about experimenting with new powder designs a number of years ago. Now that may be as a result of their initial involvement with IH, but the timeline is murky enough for me that I can’t reach any definitive conclusions as Rossi seems to have.

          • TVulgaris

            “Larry”‘s phrasing is telling, don’t you think?

          • Not sure what you’re getting at. Are you implying that Rossi wrote the question?

          • TVulgaris

            There seems to be a similar clumsiness in colloquial usage and phrasing, don’t you think?

          • TVulgaris

            This in no way negates whatever real information might exist in the exchange- perhaps to lend Rossi’s opinion some more weight that Godes does not have original IP ready for demonstration. If I remember 3 years ago clearly enough, though, Dr. McKubre stated they (Brilluoin) DID have test cells good for demos, and they weren’t electrolytic (much confusion here over IP protection, I’m extending from other statement he made then)- long before any dealings with IH.
            Rossi may in fact be a huge storyteller/liar/exaggerator like so many of my Italian friends over the years- and still be The Man, the originator of this device that could save the world. He could be the most cunning sociopath, having completely hoodwinked hundreds, if not thousands, of people over the years, including scientists and financial people and a host of social acquaintances- and still have invented this LENR device.

    • Steve Savage

      Look at that “MADE IN USA” sticker…. I wonder if those who attended were impressed by that less than subtle message.

      • I can imagine the Brillouin team sitting around the table in a conference room in early December game planning their day on Capitol Hill.

        “It’s just a metal tube. They won’t know what they’re looking at.”

        “Well, maybe we can spice it up somehow. Put some labels on it.”

        “MADE IN THE USA!”

        “That’s it!”

        And Godes shaking his head as he leaves the room to get another cup of coffee.

      • Horshu

        “Wow, these guys have a LabelMaker! Imagine what other amazing toys they have!”

      • psi2u2

        I can’t help but remember Hillary Clinton’s recent comment about revolutionary energy technology that “should be made in the US.”

    • magicsnd1

      The Brillouin hot tube is actually nothing like Rossi’s design. Look at Figures 7-10 of the recent patent application: http://www.google.com/patents/US20140332087

  • DrD

    “what virtually nobody expects is LIFT i.e thrust”
    Wrong! It DOES create thrust and he’s working on a jet engine and already tested it. There’s been much discussion about it.

    • Occams razor

      He has already claimed reactionless thrust directly from the quark. .

  • Matt

    This is exactly what he is saying for years and years now. Marvelous E-Cats, great Team, will change the world, produced in robotized factories, bla bla bla. It’s getting ridiculous.

    • Montague Withnail

      Sadly I agree. When will a genuinely credible and public independent verification take place? Until then, that should be the only question worth asking.

      In the meantime the focus should be MFMP and other open experimenters.

      • kdk

        All of the tests have been credible. The Lugano and Levi tests were quite thorough as well. They didn’t rule out all of the possible ways that UFOs could be cloaked overhead and wirelessly beaming in energy, though.

        • Montague Withnail

          Clearly we have radically different criteria for what constitutes a credible independent verification.

          • Varmlandstok

            We’re you present at the tests?
            If you were not, I believe there are people that were, that you can ask about it.

          • kdk

            Their credentials aren’t something to balk at. Yes, I consider them credible. So, if recognized scientists and specialists running tests on it isn’t credible to you, I guess we do have different ideas of credibility.

            For the record, history is going to be on their side.

          • Montague Withnail

            For a start individuals acting alone is a massive fail. A reputable organisation is a bare minimum.

          • clovis ray

            Hi, monty, you haven’t done your mandatory reading on this subject or you would have known, that with all the demoes, and experiments performed, not one was conducted by anyone, but reputable, qualified individuals, all with ph,d at the very least, all very intelligent individuals. so that statement won’t hold air, and these test are very expensive to perform, and because of the fear they will be ridiculed by their academic friends, and when you can find some willing soul, with knowledge of many fields, with the time to spare,it is not an easy thing to do, again it has been preformed many times, still no joy, so the only simple answer is the product in market, in hand will suffice .

  • DrD

    No that was F9. Pekka gave the correct (original) F8 AR definition (see below).

  • Steve Savage

    The whole and entire saga of the IH lawsuit revolves around one and only one thing. IH wants the secrets to the quark, and were willing to withhold payment to get them. Rossi thinks that he does not owe those secrets to IH. Rossi does believe he gave everything he owes, the secret behind building and running a 50 X COP Heat device (which is all he knew how to do at the time the agreement was signed) and year long proof that it works. Rossi knows he kept his part of the bargain and wants his money, as he should. There will be huge clouds of dust thrown up to obscure all this at the trial, but ultimately, I believe, this is what it will boil down to.

    • Unfortunately the terms of the agreement between IH and Leonardo appear to include IH getting the rights to future tech developments. This legal war may indeed be over the E-Cat X tech but Rossi’s position may be less protected than you say.

      • Steve Savage

        Yes, I agree, but was very careful with my words, I said Rossi believes he does not owe IH the Quark secrets. This is different from an absolute statement that he does or does not. The court will decide if Rossi or IH is correct in their respective beliefs.

        • Yup, agreed. Unless they settle out of court, which I think may be likely.

          • US_Citizen71

            A settlement doesn’t help Rossi unless he is just interested in a payday. I don’t think he will settle.

          • We’ll see. But if he perceives that he is close to market then the court case will matter less to him and he may just take what he can get.

          • US_Citizen71

            Winning the court case gets his liscenses back and forces IH to not compete for what was it two years. I think he would be very interested in that.

          • He might be able to achieve the same in a settlement for less than the full $89 M.

            I’m just remembering the observations of a lawyer poster who said that the vast majority of these types of disputes are eventually settled.

            If it does go to a full trial, I hope it’s on TV : )

          • clovis ray

            What would they have to compete with, if they are filed on for market fraud, by by, no comp.

          • clovis ray

            Hi, US,
            The problem is, they don’t have the money for the payday.
            I as well think that he won’t settle, unless they completely capitulate.
            To save them from doing prison time, but he may not be able to save them, if they broke the law.

          • TVulgaris

            Prison time? In a civil suit?
            Not even a breath of a chance.
            This is all about $89M-or maybe not. My favorite speculative fiction of this entire fracas is a Heinleinian endrun around TPTB, to protect both parties AND still enable commercial deployment within a year or two.

          • roseland67

            Clovis,
            VW broke the law, they willfully conspired to steal many hundreds of millions of $$$
            From their customers and then willfully conspired to hide the falsified emissions data from the Feds to avoid fines and I bet no one goes to jail.

          • clovis ray

            roseland67, hello.
            You could be right, though the U.S. is trying to clean up such activity,
            and there has been lots of shady deals going on by I/H, if you ask me.

        • HS61AF91

          is this not a trial by jury, and so the jury will decide if Rossi or IH is correct in their respective beliefs. Somehow that encourages me!

  • Bob

    What’s with the F8 now? Before, most on this blog kept stating that it was for legal reasons. Well, he has no partnership with IH anymore. Surely Rossi knows if it works or not! This acceptance of this continual dodging is getting silly. How can he keep stating that “it is a masterpiece” or “it will surprise everybody” and then say “oh, by the way, it may not even work “F8”! This is crazy.
    .
    If this device produces electricity, proving that it works has become 100 times easier, especially at COP of 20 >. Put in 10 watts of power and get 100 watts out. Who cares about the other 50% lost to heat. (Total of 200 watts out at COP 20) It would be absolutely black and white. A real game changer. Why not?
    .
    My hope that “Surprise” is that he actually allows a convincing test by someone such as Ed Storms, Mike McKubre, University of Missouri or best, MFMP. THAT WOULD BE THE REAL SURPRISE!

    • F8 is just him being cautious about E-Cat QX R&D leading to commercialization.

      Of course he knows it works. But commercialization is another animal.

  • Bear1145

    My question concerns distribution. Once the Quartz is proven to work in June , will the customer also be the manufacturer. If this is the case, would not the customer first satisfy his needs and then the other orders be placed on the tail end. If Rossie intends to flood the market and set the price so low and there by discourage competition, how can this be done by allowing he manufacturer to also be the customer? I realize the manufacturer would want to power his plant with the cat and posibly more than one plant to meet production demand, but where would be the line drawn to mass distribution to the world as a whole and to what sectors of the demand chain.

    • enantiomer2000

      He only said he is doing a demonstration in June. It could be a 6 or 12 months demonstration for all we know. Then there will probably need to be a paper written about it which may or may not be positive..

      • Actually he said the June test would be days and if successful would lead directly to commercialization.

        • enantiomer2000

          He also said he is already commercializing and has robotic assembly plants being constructed. I don’t think that is true and I doubt that any demo in July will lead to commercialization, only more delays. Would love to be proved wrong.

          • Do you doubt he had a meeting with ABB?

            I mean we have no proof of that meeting but he seldom lies about things like that.

          • kdk

            If he is selling 3 more plants, he is commercializing. Also, if you look at the new reactors for which there are pictures, it is pretty clear that some sort of automation went into them, if not something on the scale of a major car plant.

    • If the industrialization partner can make X by hoarding the technology to themselves, they can make 1000X++ by licensing or selling the devices.

    • DrD

      It’s a poor do if he can’t cope with more than one customers needs, irrespective of who he grants manufacturing to. That’s hardly mass production, micro (or NO) production I’d call it. I think you mean “Quark”?

      • Bear1145

        Yes ,QuarkX is correct, miss punch. My concern is as you have stated, I believe mass production and a customer willing to show case the X quickly while in use would be Rossi best statagy. There has to be a way to show the world the x is a reality and at the same time secure it’s inter-workings. If not pursued in this manner, building for one customer at a time and that customer does not acknowledge it’s purchase or success, proves nothing and only adds fuel to the fire fo r it’s critics. Maybe I am becoming to impatient after all these years,yet I believe.

  • Just hope I get mine before next winter.
    Us poor pensioner’s could do with some cheap heat.

    • Occams razor

      He claimed reactionless thrust recently. Surprisingly this is not the first time reactionless thrust has been claimed. The BBC recently did a documentary on the EM drive, it has nothing at all to do with lner, and yet it is considered worthy of further research. It may not be real it may be a experimental error. I find Authur C. Clark’s 3 rules helpful..

      Clarke’s first law
      When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
      Clarke’s second law
      The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
      Clarke’s third law
      Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

      Science fiction has so far been a excellent predictor of future technology.

      • Turned out he didn’t mean reactionless thrust a la the Em Drive. He was just saying that there was no need for traditional propellant — that it could work by heating air.

  • Just hope I get mine before next winter.
    Us poor pensioner’s could do with some cheap heat.

  • BillH

    It’s even more clear cut that what Steve Savage says below. If AR can’t stand up in court and prove that the 1MW plant was running for a year, providing useful energy to a legitimate customer, monitored by an independent ERV and overseen by IH then this story is over. No one will give any E-Cat X any credibility, no matter how wonderful it might appear on paper.

    • If he could not do those things would it be likely that he would have filed the lawsuit in the first place?

      Either IH will have definitely and conclusively exposed a dirty trick that Rossi and team thought they got away with and a scam for the ages or they will simply attack the credibility of the ERV, even though they agreed to him and monitored the test themselves and had periodic positive reports they did not dispute.**

      If it’s the latter, then we can conclude that IH is either delaying Leonardo to better their own chances in the market or forcing access to E-Cat X IP or both.

      **Standard caveat that we haven’t heard IH’s side yet applies.

      • Private Citizen

        “If he could not do those things would it be likely that he would have filed the lawsuit in the first place?”

        But that logic, every lawsuit ever filed wouldn’t be filed in the first place unless its claims were correct. I mean, why file a loser? But it’s done all the time.

        • But if Rossi’s claims could be so easily shot down he would gain nothing by filing. He would know he could not win and he would know that IH wouldn’t settle. It would be in the category of frivolous lawsuit and get thrown out almost immediately.

          The only ulterior motive I can come up with is that he did it to maintain the illusion that he had something so that he could land his next victim (appears to have already worked if that’s the case). I suppose that’s not a horribly awful argument but it still seems kind of weak to me.

          • Private Citizen

            “But if Rossi’s claims could be so easily shot down he would gain nothing by filing.”

            Neither would anyone filing any lawsuit.

          • Well trying to get in Rossi’s head is a perilous undertaking, so let’s just leave it at that.

          • Private Citizen

            Right. Filing a lawsuit is not itself evidence of a righteous case. We’re agreed.

    • clovis ray

      Bill, you finally figured it out, ‘congratulations” only the truth need be applyed. lol

      • roseland67

        Clovis,
        I suggest “truth” be replaced with replicated evidence

    • Lux Terrea

      Careful, bill. There are certainly the “snakes” that Rossi talks about but there are also the starry eyed followers of Rossi who cannot bear to hear any questioning of the absolute “truth” that everything Rossi says is just as he says and that the world is saved. You’ll be attacked or you will have you comments deleted. I, for one, agree with you. At some point you just have to piss or get off the pot. It’s been five or six years now and it’s always hurry up and wait. This is ridiculous.

      • One might argue that filing in court was pissing in the pot.

        One might also argue that shipping off the device for scientists to test for 6 months was pissing in the pot. Or that conducting a supervised 1 year test with an actual customer was pissing in the pot.

        • Lux Terrea

          One could certainly argue that but one doesn’t have any data from any of those things so I’m not sure how solid their argument would be. I hope is all true. I really do. I’ve been following like everyone else here.

          • The court filing exposed sensitive information hidden up until then.

            The Lugano report was published by the scientists, so no I don’t have the raw data but I have their first-hand analysis of it.

            We will possibly get the ERV report as early as June.

          • Lux Terrea

            Wouldn’t that be nice?

      • US_Citizen71

        If only such fervor was applied to ending the hot fusion boondoggle. It has been what about 60 years now with at least 10-20 more years to wait. Still not a single milliwatt of excess power generated.

        • Lux Terrea

          Totally agree. I still scratch my head over why anyone keeps funding them. I suppose there is some useful science coming out of it? Who knows…

          • TVulgaris

            There has been very important fundamental science every few years coming out of HF research. It’s expensive, like nearly all real research, probably well in excess of $100B if ancillary research is included as it properly should be- and shouldn’t the LHC and the other major colliders be considered a very direct offshoot of the

            Field?
            People are insanely bent out of shape that a few billion has been spent by ALL of the research groups active for the past 30 years including Fleischmann and Pons with substantial results (but no commercial product TO DATE, and not much theory to hang continued efforts on)- I’d say the ROI is MUCH better for LENR, because commercialization, regardless whether the big players co-opt this into their asset portfolios to maintain their market stranglehold, is really only a year or two off, and not just the same vaporware ITER, L-M, and the other front-runners in HF are hyping (now, it’s only a decade, rather than two or five…). Only a few million of the total LENR budget in the US comes from the government (our taxes)- which is peanuts compared to something like the F-35, which might supply some slight protection to US (read: the oligarchy’s) interests, but certainly can NOT save the world from ecologic disaster.

            If Rossi’s a complete fraud, we’ve lost little money (from the DoD contracts years ago, and perhaps some investors) and gotten years of entertainment- think about movie budgets for a few minutes. LENR is back in the public purview, and it’s once again being seriously considered by financial people and some policy makers. Never mind the scientific establishment, it’s managed to marginalize itself over the past several decades over many issues.
            On the other hand, if he’s NOT- we still have had years of entertainment and engagement (I’ve run more engineering calcs in the past 3 years on this than on anything else in the past 20), the narrative has dramatically changed, and just because anything I’VE done in the past 40 years in alternative energy is inconsequential in terms of positive impact, here’s something that IS potentially immediately consequential to mitigate my lack of positive impact.

          • I don’t begrudge a single dollar to hot fusion or any science that holds promise. Progress can be slow and things that are studied can seem obscure, but considering all the other money we spend on some things, every research/science dollar is worth its weight in gold. Hot fusion research should get quadruple its current funding. And LENR should get quadruple over that. And all the other R&D… fund it to its eyeballs. It’ll pay itself off both economically and in benefits to mankind.

            Cure cancer. Build our engineering capabilities at the smallest and largest scales. Figure out quantum computing and AI. Finish the roadmap of the brain. Saturate the market with virtual and augmented reality. Make 3D printing of anything commonplace. On and on. Such a bright future if we can just get the Luddites out of our way.

          • kdk

            People already have maps of the brain, off topic, but that is what enables telepathy and is a major component of every credible report of people being abducted/meeting aliens. It’s a fascinating topic with tons of good evidence, if you care to dig for it. Stanton Friedman will open your mind to the possibility. Telepathy is the natural extension of such mind maps and beings with far more advanced technology than we currently have already have cold fusion (and better) and implants that enable telepathy and are incredibly small devices physically connected to the brain.

    • William D. Fleming

      What if in the interim you can buy them at Lowe’s? Will you give it credibility then?

      • DrD

        Exactly, and in reality, “credibilty” no longer matters. Except for the jury, all that matters is that we can soon buy working quarks. All those who wont buy them until their credibilty is satisfied will carry on without them.
        They’ll never be convinced by demos anyway, no matter who does them or how well.

      • Mike Henderson

        I would like to see Rossi selling QuarkXs on the Home Shopping Network and QVC. Right after “Jewelry Showcase” would be “Pocket Nuclear Reactor Hour”.

      • BillH

        If Lowe’s is a US shop, and the AR v IH case is still ongoing then the judge will put an embargo on any sales until the IP issue is resolved. So there is no real possibility of this happening. So, I’d say go ahead, you first… but remember no price has ever been mentioned for this device, so get your chequebook ready.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I considered that but anyone reading the Journal knew that already.

    Consider the audience he was talking to.

    The following sounds like hints of an extremely fast market penetration to me.

    “the consequences will be fast and diffused”.

  • sam

    It is a great way to start the day by
    hearing good news.

  • sam

    It is a great way to start the day by
    hearing good news.

  • F8 is just him being cautious about E-Cat QX R&D leading to commercialization.

    Of course he knows it works. But commercialization is another animal.

  • DrD

    I was wondering why he should say this right now.
    Recently someone pointed out that “jacky” uses some of the same strange phrases as AR and was probably AR planting questions for himself.
    Perhaps he’s trying to emphasize that quark fundamentally new and revoltionary, is not just an improved E-Cat for obvious reasons.

  • DrD

    I was wondering why he should say this right now.
    Recently someone pointed out that “jacky” uses some of the same strange phrases as AR and was probably AR planting questions for himself.
    Perhaps he’s trying to emphasize that quark is fundamentally new and revolutionary and is not just an improved E-Cat for obvious reasons.

    • roseland67

      DrD,
      The Ecat, (if it works as stated),
      is revolutionary and new,
      No one in the world has anything like it.

      Perhaps he should release that and continue work on his Hot Cat, mouse, Quark, & Quark X,
      Just sayin.

  • LukeK1

    How about Mr Rossi run a public demo of the oldest but working LENR reactor. No need for anything fancy, a simplest, stable reactor that produces COP of 2.
    Right now its continuously something new, something soon. Its more and more sounds like a scam to me and right now I’m only hoping for MFMP to come up with something relevant.

    • Varmlandstok

      He did that some years ago if you remeber.
      If he did it again today, the outcome would be the same.
      People would say that it must be a scam as it cannot possibly work.

      • Gunnar Lindberg

        It is not about what people would say, it has to be performed in a way that convince the scientific community.

      • roseland67

        Give it to NASA or one of the US National labs, they will sign any type of NDA and allow Rossi to view, and consult as needed.
        Currently they do this with many of the automotive, computer, battery, utility companies etc.
        It will be immediately apparent if there is any “excess heat”.

      • interstellar hobo

        The test was under conditions so controlled as to be open to scrutiny. Anyone can see that objectively. I have been following this for years. He has a patent, now. There’s no reason for the kind of steps taken at Lugano.

      • LukeK1

        Every time we suppose to have a breakthrough, something is going horribly wrong. Don’t you see it? It just doesn’t make any sense and my only hope is in MFMP right now. I have a feeling that in June we will start another one year test with another company.

    • kdk

      There have already been plenty of public demos and tests by reputable scientists.

      • LukeK1

        And none of them verifiable among scientific community. I’m a long time fan and supporter of Mr Rossi but this is getting ridiculous now, every time we suppose to get some breakthrough, something is going horribly wrong. Right now my only hope is MFMP and definitely not Mr Rossi.

        • Couple of points. The Lugano ash is scientific proof of nuclear activity, unless Rossi doctored the sample.

          But you are right, because the devices are closely held it has been impossible to achieve scientific confirmation across an acceptable number of independent experiments. E-Cats are not scientifically proven to the scientific community nor the general population. They are not. But that’s not period end of story. There is much going on here and just because there is no proof for us at large doesn’t mean that other people don’t have proof. Surely you can see *something* is happening. If you are convinced Rossi deceives us all, focus your attention on all the other players. Start with Brillouin who also claims independent verification of a LENR+ device. Or Lenuco. Or Clean Planet. Or Piantelli and Nichenergy. Or Celani.

          It becomes harder and harder to imagine it all away the more you research. And once you reach that conclusion you come back to Rossi, and it’s obvious that he has what he says or something close to it, despite the setbacks and the drama.

        • sam

          Things are going good for A.R other than him and I.H are in a
          dispute.

        • bachcole

          “verifiable among the scientific community” is meaningless in the face of a paradigm buster. Look at every single paradigm busting since the beginning of time, and “verifiable among the scientific community” or any other authority community did not happen until it became obvious to everyone.

          You seem to not have faith in your own discernment of the validity of Ferrara 2013 and Lugano 2014.

          But I do know what you mean. I am particularly concerned about all of these latest miracles and wonders like the E-cat that glows the color desired. When I get confirmation, then I will believe.

          • LukeK1

            I’m there with you, it just the current IH situation is extremely disappointing, Rossi, ‘even if he has it’, is just the worst person to deal with this continuous struggle with ‘snakes’. We all know that he could silence them easily and still be the first in the breakthrough and still earn more money than he could ever spend.

    • Omega Z

      ->”continuously something new”

      No. There is the low temp E-cat and the Hot-cat.
      The Quark is just a continuation of the Hot-cat R&D.
      It is a continuation of work in progress. Not Something New…

      • LukeK1

        And yet he couldn’t even give the low temp E-Cat to IH or to anyone else on the planet so far inc MFMP so they could confirm that it works and give it some credit in the scientific community. Right now it just looks like he continuously buying himself more and more time with new/old inventions. It just doesn’t look good.

  • Lux Terrea

    Oh, would I love to be surprised.

  • georgehants

    It is unlivable the amount of people that chose to comment on the basis of a corrupt and selfish World in preference to a sharing and caring World.

    • If Rossi believes, as he has stated, that market forces are the most efficient way to gather the investment necessary for industrialization and greatest disbursement of the technology once mature, then I don’t think he can be accused of being corrupt and selfish. Quite the opposite.

      • US_Citizen71

        If only such fervor was applied to ending the hot fusion boondoggle. It has been what about 60 years now with at least 10-20 more years to wait. Still not a single milliwatt of excess power generated.

        • Lux Terrea

          Totally agree. I still scratch my head over why anyone keeps funding them. I suppose there is some useful science coming out of it? Who knows…

          • TVulgaris

            There has been very important fundamental science every few years coming out of HF research. It’s expensive, like nearly all real research, probably well in excess of $100B if ancillary research is included as it properly should be- and shouldn’t the LHC and the other major colliders be considered a very direct offshoot of the

            Field?
            People are insanely bent out of shape that a few billion has been spent by ALL of the research groups active for the past 30 years including Fleischmann and Pons with substantial results (but no commercial product TO DATE, and not much theory to hang continued efforts on)- I’d say the ROI is MUCH better for LENR, because commercialization, regardless whether the big players co-opt this into their asset portfolios to maintain their market stranglehold, is really only a year or two off, and not just the same vaporware ITER, L-M, and the other front-runners in HF are hyping (now, it’s only a decade, rather than two or five…). Only a few million of the total LENR budget in the US comes from the government (our taxes)- which is peanuts compared to something like the F-35, which might supply some slight protection to US (read: the oligarchy’s) interests, but certainly can NOT save the world from ecologic disaster.

            If Rossi’s a complete fraud, we’ve lost little money (from the DoD contracts years ago, and perhaps some investors) and gotten years of entertainment- think about movie budgets for a few minutes. LENR is back in the public purview, and it’s once again being seriously considered by financial people and some policy makers. Never mind the scientific establishment, it’s managed to marginalize itself over the past several decades over many issues.
            On the other hand, if he’s NOT- we still have had years of entertainment and engagement (I’ve run more engineering calcs in the past 3 years on this than on anything else in the past 20), the narrative has dramatically changed, and just because anything I’VE done in the past 40 years in alternative energy is inconsequential in terms of positive impact, here’s something that IS potentially immediately consequential to mitigate my lack of positive impact.

          • I don’t begrudge a single dollar to hot fusion or any science that holds promise. Progress can be slow and things that are studied can seem obscure, but considering all the other money we spend on some things, every research/science dollar is worth its weight in gold. Hot fusion research should get quadruple its current funding. And LENR should get quadruple over that. And all the other R&D… fund it to its eyeballs. It’ll pay itself off both economically and in benefits to mankind.

            Cure cancer. Build our engineering capabilities at the smallest and largest scales. Figure out quantum computing and AI. Finish the roadmap of the brain. Saturate the market with virtual and augmented reality. Make 3D printing of anything commonplace. On and on. Such a bright future if we can just get the Luddites out of our way.

          • kdk

            If he is selling 3 more plants, he is commercializing. Also, if you look at the new reactors for which there are pictures, it is pretty clear that some sort of automation went into them, if not something on the scale of a major car plant.

          • kdk

            People already have maps of the brain, off topic, but that is what enables telepathy and is a major component of every credible report of people being abducted/meeting aliens. It’s a fascinating topic with tons of good evidence, if you care to dig for it. Stanton Friedman will open your mind to the possibility. Telepathy is the natural extension of such mind maps and beings with far more advanced technology than we currently have already have cold fusion (and better) and implants that enable telepathy and are incredibly small devices physically connected to the brain.

        • DrD

          Frank, does this answer mean something to you/anyone?

          “Frank Acland
          May 4, 2016 at 6:37 PM
          Dear Andrea,
          Why do you think the revelation of the E-Cat QuarkX will be such a surprise?
          Many thanks,
          Frank Acland

          Andrea Rossi
          May 4, 2016 at 8:25 PM
          Frank Acland:
          If you put this question, you have imagined a hint of it.
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.”

          • Frank Acland

            Not really!

          • Engineer48

            Both IH & Rossi have the 3 month report, the 6 month report, the 9 month report and the 12 month report from the ERV that both appointed, aggreed to the instrumentation and data collection method used and jointly paid.

            Strange that only when the 12 month ERV report was received by both that IH called foul & refused to pay the $89m as required by the contract and final 12 month ERV report indicating a COP >= 6.

          • Guru Khalsa

            When I read this I thought he meant: give me a specific example of what you think the revelation might be(hint) and I can answer you(yes or no).

      • georgehants

        LENR G, you seem to think that Mr. Rossi cannot think and answer for himself, very strange situation that you are seemingly answering for him without answering the point I made.

        • george, sometimes I think if I told you I had a PBJ sandwich for lunch, you’d chastise me for smearing the peanut butter and jelly on separate slices.

          In life you occasionally meet people that just make zero sense to you. I believe it’s important though to treat everyone with respect, especially the people you don’t quite get initially. Some of them you eventually do get and you are richer for it.

          So I’m still trying to figure you out, george. You’re clearly passionate about your beliefs. I respect that.

          • georgehants

            LENR G, I am not in any way not treating you or anybody without respect who treats me with respect.
            I have no idea how that comes into my perfectly respectful question.
            I am sorry that you cannot “I’m still trying to figure you out” it is very simple, I care about people and not corrupt profits.
            I am not fooled by the inane propaganda designed to keep the non-thinking masses in order while a few thrive.
            I will ask you the same question if Mr. Rossi released all he knows regarding Cold Fusion five years ago, where possibly would the subject be now with thousands working throughout the World and no crazy patents to disrupt it.
            Do you think people like MFMP and many other decent people would not work because they will not receive skip loads of cash, just the satisfaction of knowing how they have helped other.
            Hope that helps you to figure me out.

          • To answer your question, “If Mr. Rossi released all he knows regarding Cold Fusion five years ago, where possibly would the subject be now with thousands working throughout the World and no crazy patents to disrupt it,”

            I believe…

            …that the technology would have started to spread, though slowly at first as the stigma would take a while to wear off
            … Rossi would have been signed up by one of the startup companies in the emerging field and be making a good living — though with little prospect of becoming mega rich or controlling his invention
            … that large companies would be shying away from the field despite its potential because they could not patent anything and thus could not justify large investment
            …that a patent war would break out anyway
            …that DIYers would start claiming being totally off grid and push kits for sale on eBay
            …that the oil market would have crashed but stock markets would be on a major bull run
            … that there would still be ambiguity about the science or if it were real at all as I wouldn’t expect even the first wave of University replications to be accepted at face value

            In summary still ambiguous, lawyers stick circling, underground success, a wave of investment by smallish companies, hands off by large companies, poor market penetration in the form of reliable products and poor prospects of any such major product releases due to lack of incentives for the big boys.

            I hope that answer doesn’t offend you as everything else I post seems to.

          • georgehants

            You said —-“I hope that answer doesn’t offend you as everything else I post seems to.”
            Your accusation is entirely without merit and I will therefore consider your whole comment to be just as inaccurate and disregard it.

          • OK, I’m done with you.

          • kdk

            George, I agree with your sentiments, however people can and have gotten patents on devices that work only to intentionally squander their progress and prosecute people when there is more money to be made with their fossil fuel markets, not to mention the geopolitical advantages granted by the petrodollar system. It is clear to me that somebody besides them needs to have the patent for it not to be buried by the media and patent system for a decade or more. Open science doesn’t get you patents. Especially when you might be facing a multi-trillion dollar industry that wouldn’t hesitate to sue your pants off, or worse, and completely bury any significant media coverage of it. Honestly, to me it’s almost a miracle that anybody has made it this far.

          • Omega Z

            So the best man for the job is someone else.
            Apparently not or that person would have developed E-cat. Not Rossi.

    • LarryJ

      Your brand of sharing and caring would put us all in the poorhouse and who would be in a position to help the destitute then. Not you I bet.

      On the bright side, if your ideas prevail and you make beggars of us all then there will be no more beggars and if nobody has anything we will all be equal which is so much more fair.

      • georgehants

        Larry, your “opinion” in no way substitutes for Mr. Rossi answering my clear question regarding the millions suffering in this World while the rich World prance around giving unfounded excuses for that suffering.

        • Warthog

          Tell you what, George. Why don’t you post your question on Rossi’s JONP website and stop beating the same sentence to death hundreds of times here.

          • georgehants

            Warthog, I see you continue with your repetition, look forward to you saying something a little different than the whining about a very important side of Cold Fusion that you just happen to want to hide.
            I just like to keep to Facts as below —–
            3 Studies That Prove Capitalism is Making Us Evil
            http://www.critical-theory.com/studies-prove-capitalism-evil/

          • Warthog

            So, George, exactly what are YOU personally doing about poverty, other than posting non-LENR comments on an LENR website?? (Note, saying that something is LENR-related doesn’t make it so). What actions do YOU specifically take to relieve the suffering of those in poverty?? What specific charitable organizations are you a member of?? How many hours a week do you donate to direct activity??

        • TVulgaris

          Your asking Rossi a question on a forum he apparently doesn’t read, and certainly has never, to my knowledge, posted on, doesn’t seem at all reasonable.

          • TVulgaris

            Reading Albert Kallal’s anti-socialist manifesto above does point out others are even less reasonable…

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Well, the problem is not Rossi, but you falling to answer why cold fusion was rejected by all those government funded institutions?

          I mean, the government saying we have a global warming problem, they are pledging billions of dollars to solve this issue, and yet at the same time conspiring to thwart LENR. So it not Rossi that failing to answer you, but YOU ARE failing to point out that the since the tim of P & F your flock and socialist foe have been ACTIVELY thwarting LENR at every turn.

          I fail to see how some guy like Rossi holed up in a tin box is to address starving children by lack of LENR when your foe and flocks of socialist government institutions are 100% responsible for the LENR mess we are in right now.

          So the problem not Rossi failing to answer you (since as noted he likely not reading here). However the real problem seems you not admitting that those government institutions in the name of socialism have failed us on LENR.

          I fail to see ANY logical reason to point out some guy living in a tin box for a year as compared to the BILLIONS that the government is spending on global warming, but ignoring and thwarting LENR at the same time. It would seem your hypocrisy is getting the best of you and you are barking up the wrong tree. It not Rossi that you need to bark at, but you spending time pointing out how your socialist foe and your governments with billions of spending on global warming have sold us out on LENR.

          Rossi trying to get a product to market, so is IH, but the blame for this slow process SOLELY lands on your socialist foe and government funded institutions who suppressed LENR for 30 years.

          So if you going to point out that children are starving, at least be honest and include that your socialist foe are 100% responsible for ignoring LENR and failing to bring LENR to the masses. Virtually EVERY single government institutions (where most science research takes place) has sold us out on LENR – especially NASA.

          I mean, everyone agrees 2 = 2 and everyone agrees that we need energy to feed hungry children of the world. (so saying as such has ZERO value to anyone).

          However, pointing out why we don’t have LENR yet – well at least now people can learn from history and learn that your socialist ideals are the ones that failed us on LENR – you at least need to preach this failure else your concern about starving children is hypocrisy.

          We all agree that LENR could feed hungry children, so the question THEN becomes who to blame for the 30 year delay in LENR? I mean what else could your point possible be here? Children are starving, and LENR could help these children. This is your point, is it not?

          The answer is clear – people with socialist ideals like you are the ones that sold out everyone out on LENR.

          So if you really care about LENR (else why you posting in a LENR forum), the you need to preach to people here to avoid your socialist thinking, as that is the main reason for LENR having been held back all this time, and thus LENR not being used to help feed hungry children of the world.

          The above logic is clear – the only question is if you going to be honest and admit the above, but MORE important preach the message as to what went wrong with LENR and thus save future generations from adopting your socialist way of thinking that is causing children to stave because they don’t have LENR.

          So while Rossi not address YOUR issue of starving children and LENR – I Cleary have in above.

          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • georgehants

            Albert long rambling reply’s are usually attempts to cover up ones not understanding a subject and bore the reader to death.
            One either agrees that the present system has faults, which it clearly has and try to put them right, or one finds every excuse to deny the obvious, as directed by those in control.
            Your position is clear, close ones eyes and everything is alright.
            Try a little Truth as below ——-
            3 Studies That Prove Capitalism is Making Us Evil
            http://www.critical-theory.com/studies-prove-capitalism-evil/

          • Albert D. Kallal

            I not speaking for Rossi, but it is SPECTACULAR presumptions that you think Rossi owes you some response. Why does Rossi owe you any more of a response then the person that hauls your garbage away in the morning? Are you really that important?

            So you think Rossi OWES you some answer and response. I not answering for Rossi and NEVER suggested I was (in the future please don’t put words and lie about my actions in public – most socialists are very dishonest and love to twist words – clearly you are upholding this socialist tradition of being dishonest).

            To be clear:

            I stated while Rossi may not be answering you, I am certainly able to answer your questions (but NEVER on behalf of Rossi and NEVER suggesting as such).

            You have to explain to everyone here why an answer is warranted from Rossi as opposed to any other poster here and WHY?

            Since your issue and questions are not specific to Rossi’s knowledge, then for what reason would Rossi, or Joe Smo down the street have any kind of obligation to answer you? Oh, perhaps the world and universe must bow down to your greatness and shake in their boots as they give you some answer?

            So the world owes George the Great an answer, but when we ask you a question you don’t answer and don’t have an obligation to answer? (this doubled standard is called hypocrisy if you are wondering).

            I simply addressing the stupidity of your logic suggesting that somehow Rossi is responsible for delaying LENR when he worked 14 hours a day for a full year attempting to bring LENR to the people.

            I also addressing the stupidly of your position that capitalism has delayed LENR when clearly that is not the case, and has not been the case since Pons & Fleishman. Cleary those government funded (socialist) institutions are the MAIN reason for the delay of LENR.

            So clearly it is you failing to address these delays in LENR.

            So you want 100% freedom to spew out your political propaganda, but then have ZERO debate and ZERO answers when challenged. Yet Rossi owes you an answer, but you don’t owe any answers to anyone here? How hypocritical of you!

            >Your position is clear, close ones eyes

            Yes, talk about the kettle being black. You propose to have an open mind, DEMAND and COMPLAIN when Rossi does not address or answer your questions(s), yet YOU NEVER give the same courtesy and answers back to the readers here!

            In other words, you not interested in a debate or discussing issues, but only demanding others bow down and give answers to you?

            So are you flat out admitting you not here to discuss issues, and especially those about LENR in a LENR forum?

            And if you not here to debate LENR, then for what possible reason are you posting here except to push your political brand of socialism here on everyone else?

            You attempting to equate “facts” with the idea that you not pushing your brand of socialist propaganda here.

            In other words, your socialist position and you posting links to socialist propaganda is not you preaching your brand of socialism here? Wow, you not even being honest about what you are doing here!

            Feel free at any time to address why LENR been delayed for 30 years in this LENR forum. (you are here to discuss LENR on a LENR forum, right? – ouch – I guess not!).

            Clearly based on your post, you have zero intention of debate here, but are here to preach your socialist propaganda to the masses.

            And like a child who can’t have his way you cry like a baby when someone does not give you attention and answer your questions – but all along at the same time you behave the same, and don’t answer questions asked of you!

            Exactly who pouting like a closed minded child here?

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • georgehants

    It is unbelievable the amount of people that chose to comment on the basis of a corrupt and selfish World in preference to a sharing and caring World.

    • If Rossi believes, as he has stated, that market forces are the most efficient way to gather the investment necessary for industrialization and greatest disbursement of the technology once mature, then I don’t think he can be accused of being corrupt and selfish. Quite the opposite.

      • Gunnar Lindberg

        No, not selfish, but something like the biggest fool on earth.

        • Well then you’re calling much of Western civilization fools because we’ve risen to relative prosperity based on those principles.

          • Gunnar Lindberg

            The problem is that Rossi believe he is the best man to do it, an old man with no previous success in production and marketing.

          • I believe he recognizes the need for a solid partner to industrialize.

            Defkalion tried to screw him 5 years ago. Looks like Industrial Heat is trying to screw him this year. Now he’s pursuing another potential partner — apparent acceptance test in June.

            EDIT: also he says Leonardo is 33 people strong now. So not exactly go it alone. Unconfirmed.

          • LarryJ

            Not entirely true. Rossi ran an industry in Italy that by some accounts was successful but which ran afoul of powerful vested interests in that country.

            History may be repeating with his latest endeavour.

            He is mid 60’s which is not all that old for people who look after themselves

          • sam

            He learned skills from his fathers successfull business and from the mistakes of his own unsuccessful business.

          • NT

            Experience is the best teacher, and Rossi has that…

          • Omega Z

            So the best man for the job is someone else.
            Apparently not or that person would have developed E-cat. Not Rossi.

          • Buck

            But at what cost?

            it has been repeatedly shown through census and population statistics that we are the most overweight, drug addicted, unhappiest, most incarcerated, most depressed cohort. Look it up as it presents a very sad story.

          • Free to make poor choices : )

          • Buck

            And in that one virtue rests the genesis for the need of government as a means to balance these opposing forces.

          • LarryJ

            In the empire perhaps but there is more to the free world than just the empire.

          • Jarea

            That was done with real capitalism and not with this current corrupted capitalism where the richs protect each other.
            They dont want competency at any cost, they destroy them either by buying startups (Hostile takeovers), pattenting trolling for many years, destroying the new ideas, controlling th media, and more. This is again not the capitalism of Adam S.
            In the area of energy this is more evident, so yes Rossi could be a fool fighting against giants

          • I agree that our current system of capitalism has many flaws.

            The massive income inequality, not seen since just before the great depression, has warped our politics and walled off more and more money from the public good and its hoarding is stealing the lifeblood from our economy.

            But *fair* competition is a good model, at least in this era of relative scarcity before (we hope) an age of abundance which could alter things dramatically.

            But everyone has their own opinions about economics and politics based on their own upbringing, environment and observations and nobody is absolutely right or absolutely wrong.

          • sam

            I think A.R would be wise not to discourage
            the Hank Mills of the U.S and
            with there help the Giants might not
            get there way.

      • georgehants

        LENR G, you seem to think that Mr. Rossi cannot think and answer for himself, very strange situation that you are seemingly answering for him without answering the point I made.

        • george, sometimes I think if I told you I had a PBJ sandwich for lunch, you’d chastise me for smearing the peanut butter and jelly on separate slices.

          In life you occasionally meet people that just make zero sense to you. I believe it’s important though to treat everyone with respect, especially the people you don’t quite get initially. Some of them you eventually do get and you are richer for it.

          So I’m still trying to figure you out, george. You’re clearly passionate about your beliefs. I respect that.

          • georgehants

            LENR G, I am not in any way not treating you or anybody without respect who treats me with respect.
            I have no idea how that comes into my perfectly respectful question.
            I am sorry that you cannot “I’m still trying to figure you out” it is very simple, I care about people and not corrupt profits.
            I am not fooled by the inane propaganda designed to keep the unfortunate masses in order while a few thrive.
            I will ask you the same question if Mr. Rossi released all he knows regarding Cold Fusion five years ago, where possibly would the subject be now with thousands working throughout the World and no crazy patents to disrupt it.
            Do you think people like MFMP and many other decent people would not work because they will not receive skip loads of cash, just the satisfaction of knowing how they have helped others.
            Hope that helps you to figure me out.

          • To answer your question, “If Mr. Rossi released all he knows regarding Cold Fusion five years ago, where possibly would the subject be now with thousands working throughout the World and no crazy patents to disrupt it,”

            I believe…

            …that the technology would have started to spread, though slowly at first as the stigma would take a while to wear off
            … Rossi would have been signed up by one of the startup companies in the emerging field and be making a good living — though with little prospect of becoming mega rich or controlling his invention
            … that large companies would be shying away from the field despite its potential because they could not patent anything and thus could not justify large investment
            …that a patent war would break out anyway
            …that DIYers would start claiming being totally off grid and push kits for sale on eBay
            …that the oil market would have crashed but stock markets would be on a major bull run
            … that there would still be ambiguity about the science or if it were real at all as I wouldn’t expect even the first wave of University replications to be accepted at face value

            In summary still ambiguous, lawyers stick circling, underground success, a wave of investment by smallish companies, hands off by large companies, poor market penetration in the form of reliable products and poor prospects of any such major product releases due to lack of incentives for the big boys.

            I hope that answer doesn’t offend you as everything else I post seems to.

          • georgehants

            You said —-“I hope that answer doesn’t offend you as everything else I post seems to.”
            Your accusation is entirely without merit and I will therefore consider your whole comment to be just as inaccurate and disregard it.

          • OK, I’m done with you.

          • kdk

            George, I agree with your sentiments, however people can and have gotten patents on devices that work only to intentionally squander their progress and prosecute people when there is more money to be made with their fossil fuel markets, not to mention the geopolitical advantages granted by the petrodollar system. It is clear to me that somebody besides them needs to have the patent for it not to be buried by the media and patent system for a decade or more. Open science doesn’t get you patents. Especially when you are facing a multi-trillion dollar industry that wouldn’t hesitate to sue your pants off, or worse, and completely bury any significant media coverage of it. I think you already know, but the media is largely owned and controlled by most of the same people who own and control the oil. Honestly, to me it’s almost a miracle that anybody has made it this far.

    • LarryJ

      Your brand of sharing and caring would put us all in the poorhouse and who would be in a position to help the destitute then. Not you I bet.

      On the bright side, if your ideas prevail and you make beggars of us all then there will be no more beggars and if nobody has anything we will all be equal which is so much more fair.

      • georgehants

        Larry, your “opinion” in no way substitutes for Mr. Rossi answering my clear question regarding the millions suffering in this World while the rich World prance around giving unfounded excuses for that suffering.

        • Warthog

          Tell you what, George. Why don’t you post your question on Rossi’s JONP website and stop beating the same sentence to death hundreds of times here.

          • georgehants

            Warthog, I see you continue with your repetition, look forward to you saying something a little different than the whining about a very important side of Cold Fusion that you just happen to want to hide.
            I just like to keep to Facts as below —–
            3 Studies That Prove Capitalism is Making Us Evil
            http://www.critical-theory.com/studies-prove-capitalism-evil/

        • TVulgaris

          Your asking Rossi a question on a forum he apparently doesn’t read, and certainly has never, to my knowledge, posted on, doesn’t seem at all reasonable.

          • TVulgaris

            Reading Albert Kallal’s anti-socialist manifesto above does point out others are even less reasonable…

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Well, the problem is not Rossi, but you falling to answer why cold fusion was rejected by all those government funded institutions?

          I mean, the government saying we have a global warming problem, they are pledging billions of dollars to solve this issue, and yet at the same time conspiring to thwart LENR. So it not Rossi that failing to answer you, but YOU ARE failing to point out that the since the tim of P & F your flock and socialist foe have been ACTIVELY thwarting LENR at every turn.

          I fail to see how some guy like Rossi holed up in a tin box is to address starving children by lack of LENR when your foe and flocks of socialist government institutions are 100% responsible for the LENR mess we are in right now.

          So the problem not Rossi failing to answer you (since as noted he likely not reading here). However the real problem seems you not admitting that those government institutions in the name of socialism have failed us on LENR.

          I fail to see ANY logical reason to point out some guy living in a tin box for a year as compared to the BILLIONS that the government is spending on global warming, but ignoring and thwarting LENR at the same time. It would seem your hypocrisy is getting the best of you and you are barking up the wrong tree. It not Rossi that you need to bark at, but you spending time pointing out how your socialist foe and your governments with billions of spending on global warming have sold us out on LENR.

          Rossi trying to get a product to market, so is IH, but the blame for this slow process SOLELY lands on your socialist foe and government funded institutions who suppressed LENR for 30 years.

          So if you going to point out that children are starving, at least be honest and include that your socialist foe are 100% responsible for ignoring LENR and failing to bring LENR to the masses. Virtually EVERY single government institutions (where most science research takes place) has sold us out on LENR – especially NASA.

          I mean, everyone agrees 2 = 2 and everyone agrees that we need energy to feed hungry children of the world. (so saying as such has ZERO value to anyone).

          However, pointing out why we don’t have LENR yet – well at least now people can learn from history and learn that your socialist ideals are the ones that failed us on LENR – you at least need to preach this failure else your concern about starving children is hypocrisy.

          We all agree that LENR could feed hungry children, so the question THEN becomes who to blame for the 30 year delay in LENR? I mean what else could your point possible be here? Children are starving, and LENR could help these children. This is your point, is it not?

          The answer is clear – people with socialist ideals like you are the ones that sold out everyone out on LENR.

          So if you really care about LENR (else why you posting in a LENR forum), the you need to preach to people here to avoid your socialist thinking, as that is the main reason for LENR having been held back all this time, and thus LENR not being used to help feed hungry children of the world.

          The above logic is clear – the only question is if you going to be honest and admit the above, but MORE important preach the message as to what went wrong with LENR and thus save future generations from adopting your socialist way of thinking that is causing children to stave because they don’t have LENR.

          So while Rossi not address YOUR issue of starving children and LENR – I Cleary have in above.

          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • georgehants

            Albert you say —–
            “So while Rossi not address YOUR issue of starving children and LENR – I Cleary have in above.”
            Do you not think you speaking for Mr Rossi is unbelievably presumptuous?
            I will just take it that you are giving your own “opinion” and show Mr. Rossi the respect of waiting for his own reply.
            ———
            I am not talking politics but Facts.
            Long rambling reply’s are usually attempts to cover up ones not understanding a subject and bore the reader to death.
            One either agrees that the present system has faults, which it clearly has and try to put them right, or one finds every excuse to deny the obvious, as directed by those in control.
            Your position is clear, close ones eyes, blame somebody else and everything is alright.
            Try a little Truth as below ——-
            3 Studies That Prove Capitalism is Making Us Evil
            http://www.critical-theory.com/studies-prove-capitalism-evil/
            ———
            10 Hard-to-believe Facts about Poverty in Canada
            http://www.salvationarmy.ca/blog/2015/05/14/10-hard-to-believe-facts-about-poverty-in-canada/

          • bachcole

            Capitalism has faults because people are imperfect. What is your solution, George?

          • Albert D. Kallal

            I not speaking for Rossi, but it is SPECTACULAR presumptions that you think Rossi owes you some response. Why does Rossi owe you any more of a response then the person that hauls your garbage away in the morning? Are you really that important?

            So you think Rossi OWES you some answer and response. I not answering for Rossi and NEVER suggested I was (in the future please don’t put words and lie about my actions in public – most socialists are very dishonest and love to twist words – clearly you are upholding this socialist tradition of being dishonest).

            To be clear:

            I stated while Rossi may not be answering you, I am certainly able to answer your questions (but NEVER on behalf of Rossi and NEVER suggesting as such).

            You have to explain to everyone here why an answer is warranted from Rossi as opposed to any other poster here and WHY?

            Since your issue and questions are not specific to Rossi’s knowledge, then for what reason would Rossi, or Joe Smo down the street have any kind of obligation to answer you? Oh, perhaps the world and universe must bow down to your greatness and shake in their boots as they give you some answer?

            So the world owes George the Great an answer, but when we ask you a question you don’t answer and don’t have an obligation to answer? (this doubled standard is called hypocrisy if you are wondering).

            I simply addressing the stupidity of your logic suggesting that somehow Rossi is responsible for delaying LENR when he worked 14 hours a day for a full year attempting to bring LENR to the people.

            I also addressing the stupidly of your position that capitalism has delayed LENR when clearly that is not the case, and has not been the case since Pons & Fleishman. Cleary those government funded (socialist) institutions are the MAIN reason for the delay of LENR.

            So clearly it is you failing to address these delays in LENR.

            So you want 100% freedom to spew out your political propaganda, but then have ZERO debate and ZERO answers when challenged. Yet Rossi owes you an answer, but you don’t owe any answers to anyone here? How hypocritical of you!

            >Your position is clear, close ones eyes

            Yes, talk about the kettle being black. You propose to have an open mind, DEMAND and COMPLAIN when Rossi does not address or answer your questions(s), yet YOU NEVER give the same courtesy and answers back to the readers here!

            In other words, you not interested in a debate or discussing issues, but only demanding others bow down and give answers to you?

            So are you flat out admitting you not here to discuss issues, and especially those about LENR in a LENR forum?

            And if you not here to debate LENR, then for what possible reason are you posting here except to push your political brand of socialism here on everyone else?

            You attempting to equate “facts” with the idea that you not pushing your brand of socialist propaganda here.

            In other words, your socialist position and you posting links to socialist propaganda is not you preaching your brand of socialism here? Wow, you not even being honest about what you are doing here!

            Feel free at any time to address why LENR been delayed for 30 years in this LENR forum. (you are here to discuss LENR on a LENR forum, right? – ouch – I guess not!).

            Clearly based on your post, you have zero intention of debate here, but are here to preach your socialist propaganda to the masses.

            And like a child who can’t have his way you cry like a baby when someone does not give you attention and answer your questions – but all along at the same time you behave the same, and don’t answer questions asked of you!

            Exactly who pouting like a closed minded child here?

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • One might argue that filing in court was pissing in the pot.

    One might also argue that shipping off the device for scientists to test for 6 months was pissing in the pot. Or that conducting a supervised 1 year test with an actual customer was pissing in the pot.

  • interstellar hobo

    A surprise would be something that doesn’t involve “F8,”. That joke isn’t funny anymore. How about an actual demonstration with none of the usual cagey Rossi-ness. Anything, even old tech with a simple calorimetric test.

    • What he should do dammit is let Industrial Heat test the thing for a year with their own expert responsible for validation… film the whole thing, keep people on site the whole time and record constant data so there’s no chance of deception..

      Oh wait.

      • Engineer48

        Rossi has claimed there is a, from start to finish, 24/7 video, from multiple cameras, of what really happened on the test site.

        Should be a really interesting watch.

      • LarryJ

        IH does not want to prove that Rossi’s tech works. They already know that from the 4 ERV reports they received. If they had paid Rossi that would have confirmed his tech and his patent. They want that question left open to argue about for many years.

        We know that IH made the one year test reactor and from the ERV we know it works. I think IH are building and selling those reactors right now under NDA just like Leonardo. They are very well funded with about 200 million in the bank and they are experienced industrialists. They also have Brillouin to manage the science so it is safe to say they are in the lead. But without Rossi their product will stagnate and despite less funding Rossi will catch up and overtake them with superior products.

        • I agree with you that we appear to be witnessing a business struggle story and not a scam being exposed story. But I’m not certain.

          With the money and power at stake I think we have all expected a massive “war” for control of LENR technology if it is real. What I personally didn’t expect was Industrial Heat double-crossing Rossi (if that’s what’s happening).

          • Observer

            Inventors being stabbed in the back by their financial backers is practically cliche.

          • Perhaps I should have seen it coming.

          • Omega Z

            Actually, We all did see this coming.

            However, one is never ready when it does. Possibly because we all try to be optimistic and hope this only happens to the other guy..

          • LarryJ

            A massive war begins with a single shot. We are still in early days and I think IH fired the single shot that has started the massive war. We are now out of R&D and into the industrialization phase and a patent war is a pretty standard event during the industrialization phase.

  • SD

    Maybe it won’t be a surprise for us, but it will be for everybody else.

  • e-dog

    Surprise! Rossi embraces Live Open Science or lets the thing be true third party tested and engages in replication!! Massive surprise! Toughen up Rossi, show us your quark.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    OT. Contrary to what Rossi again today writes, the Higgs field does not turn bosons into fermions. Instead, it gives both a mass, except to those that remain massless.
    Rossi also keeps on saying (although not today) that bosons are massless and fermions massive. That is also wrong. For example, the deuteron is a boson and is massive. Likewise the massive W and Z bosons. It might be argued that “elementary” bosons (bosons that have not yet interacted with Higgs) are massless, but the same could be argued for elementary fermions.
    Rossi probably confuses supersymmetry and the Higgs boson. Supersymmetry transformations turn bosons into fermions and vice versa. If supersymmetry would exist, that is.

    • e-dog

      Surprise! Rossi is doing a AMA ask me anything thread, live here on ecw this Friday night!!

      • I wonder how he feels about the Dolphins draft?

        • e-dog

          hes more of a tennis guy apparently

      • Mike Henderson

        “Would you rather fight a hundred duck sized horses or one horse sized duck?”

        • “Would you rather fight a clown holding 100 poisonous snakes or a giant poisonous snake dressed as a clown?”

      • SD

        It actually got moved to Reddit last I heard.

        • EmTee

          As mentioned before, free available units for public testing!
          If Mr. Rossi is delaying the free availability of testing units, lets say for universities or other widely respected authorities, than the introduction to a mass marked will take longer, because if the LENR process is not widely understood, you never will get permission to distribute them – at least not in the EU.

          • cashmemorz

            Will it also be considered contraband to import from places it will be available? This Will start a war.

          • help_lenr

            Your claim is false.

            There is no need to understand how a device works, in order to use it.

            A state which will wait for a scientific explanation decades before using a device will pay high price for not using low price energy; I don’t think that this will be tollerated by the citizens.

          • INVENTOR INVENTED

            If he doesn’t come through with giving Quark X units to universities and organizations that can verify his claims I will have serious doubts about his veracity.

    • Josh G
  • e-dog

    Surprise! Rossi embraces Live Open Science or lets the thing be true third party tested and engages in replication!! Massive surprise! Toughen up Rossi, show us your quark.

      • e-dog

        oh dear….

      • Zero love bombs for this excellent video response to e-dog has me questioning my faith in humanity.

        This cult sucks.

    • clovis ray

      e-dog
      Do you believe that by repeating things endlessly , that it will happen, HE IS NOT GOING TO GIVE UP HIS SECRET until of course,after he has all lose ends tied up, then maybe it will be his choice, of course. and when 10 years from now, he will be teaching at his leasure, about his creation, and thousands will be watching as the master, thinker,mechanic- designer,explains his, baby the e-cat.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    OT. Contrary to what Rossi again today writes, the Higgs field does not turn bosons into fermions. Instead, it gives both a mass, except to those that remain massless.
    Rossi also keeps on saying (although not today) that bosons are massless and fermions massive. That is also wrong. For example, the deuteron is a boson and is massive. Likewise the massive W and Z bosons. It might be argued that “elementary” bosons (bosons that have not yet interacted with Higgs) are massless, but the same could be argued for elementary fermions.
    Rossi probably confuses supersymmetry and the Higgs boson. Supersymmetry transformations turn bosons into fermions and vice versa. If supersymmetry would exist, that is.

  • What he should do dammit is let Industrial Heat test the thing for a year with their own expert responsible for validation… film the whole thing, keep people on site the whole time and record constant data so there’s no chance of deception..

    Oh wait.

    • Engineer48

      Rossi has claimed there is a, from start to finish, 24/7 video, from multiple cameras, of what really happened on the test site.

      Should be a really interesting watch.

      • TVulgaris

        Prison time? In a civil suit?
        Not even a breath of a chance.
        This is all about $89M-or maybe not. My favorite speculative fiction of this entire fracas is a Heinleinian endrun around TPTB, to protect both parties AND still enable commercial deployment within a year or two.

      • Rossi Fan

        “I’m saving myself for Mr. Right” only works if you’re a virgin. Rossi already gave the store away to the Chinese. Time to give Frank and LENR VIPs a demo. No excuse not to.

        • Jean the Baptist

          Who knows Totò, marvellous italian actor?

    • LarryJ

      IH does not want to prove that Rossi’s tech works. They already know that from the 4 ERV reports they received. If they had paid Rossi that would have confirmed his tech and his patent. They want that question left open to argue about for many years.

      We know that IH made the one year test reactor and from the ERV we know it works. I think IH are building and selling those reactors right now under NDA just like Leonardo. They are very well funded with about 200 million in the bank and they are experienced industrialists. They also have Brillouin to manage the science so it is safe to say they are in the lead. But without Rossi their product will stagnate and despite less funding Rossi will catch up and overtake them with superior products.

      • I agree with you that we appear to be witnessing a business struggle story and not a scam being exposed story. But I’m not certain.

        With the money and power at stake I think we have all expected a massive “war” for control of LENR technology if it is real. What I personally didn’t expect was Industrial Heat double-crossing Rossi (if that’s what’s happening).

        • Observer

          Inventors being stabbed in the back by their financial backers is practically cliche.

          • Perhaps I should have seen it coming.

          • Omega Z

            Actually, We all did see this coming.

            However, one is never ready when it does. Possibly because we all try to be optimistic and hope this only happens to the other guy..

        • LarryJ

          A massive war begins with a single shot. We are still in early days and I think IH fired the single shot that has started the massive war. We are now out of R&D and into the industrialization phase and a patent war is a pretty standard event during the industrialization phase.

  • e-dog

    Surprise! Rossi is doing a AMA ask me anything thread, live here on ecw this Friday night!!

    • I wonder how he feels about the Dolphins draft?

      • e-dog

        hes more of a tennis guy apparently

    • Mike Henderson

      “Would you rather fight a hundred duck sized horses or one horse sized duck?”

      • “Would you rather fight a clown holding 100 poisonous snakes or a giant poisonous snake dressed as a clown?”

      • Lux Terrea

        That was funny. lol

    • SD

      It actually got moved to Reddit last I heard.

  • e-dog

    Surprise! Rossi announced that he’s working with MFMP on a replication of his technology!

    • But that would just mean that MFMP are all scammers, cleverly set up with years of foresight as an apparent LOS organization so that when the time was ripe he could get seemingly bulletproof credibility.

      So that he could ratchet the scam-o-meter up to a billion.

    • psi2u2

      Are you being serious? How do you know this?

      • He’s speculating/joking.

        • psi2u2

          ok, thanks. Sorry, I’m gullible sometimes…..

          • e-dog

            sorry, but what a surprise that would be!

          • Puppies should not be rude.

          • psi2u2

            No need to apologize, I just wasn’t sure if you were joking or not! Would that it were true!!!!

        • The court filing exposed sensitive information hidden up until then.

          The Lugano report was published by the scientists, so no I don’t have the raw data but I have their first-hand analysis of it.

          We will possibly get the ERV report as early as June.

          • Lux Terrea

            Wouldn’t that be nice?

          • Fibber McGourlick

            Why the F8? Will the reactor stop working? Will the discovery be abandoned? Is the report a mistake? What?

          • F8 primarily means whether or not R&D will result in a device that can be industrialized.

            Working on a lab bench and suitable for commercialization are two different things, so he hedges with F8.

          • Fibber McGourlick

            Is it in any way possible that cheap fusion energy at room temperature in a small package could not be commercialized?
            Nonsense. If real, it is the greatest discovery since the advent of electricity. It should be a simple matter to demonstrate it too.

        • Tannenbaum

          “Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love you tomorrow — you’re always a day away!”

          Seriously, I don’t doubt for a minute that LENR is real, nor do I think that Rossi is a con man. But these constant promises with no delivery are trying the faith of even his most loyal supporters. Please, Dr. Rossi, stop telling us what you’ll have tomorrow, and just show us what you’ve got today.

          • Engineer48

            Rossi has quoted me a 6 month delivery on a 10MWt 105C steam reactor delivery.

          • Guru Khalsa

            This is great news. Have you signed the contract yet?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Very funny e-dog!

      For the record, no we are not working with Rossi and have never had a relationship with him in any way.

  • e-dog

    Surprise! Rossi announced that he’s working with MFMP on a replication of his technology!

    • But that would just mean that MFMP are all scammers, cleverly set up with years of foresight as an apparent LOS organization so that when the time was ripe he could get seemingly bulletproof credibility.

      So that he could ratchet the scam-o-meter up to a billion.

    • psi2u2

      Are you being serious? How do you know this?

      • He’s speculating/joking.

        • psi2u2

          ok, thanks. Sorry, I’m gullible sometimes…..

          • e-dog

            sorry, but what a surprise that would be!

          • Puppies should not be rude.

          • psi2u2

            No need to apologize, I just wasn’t sure if you were joking or not! Would that it were true!!!!

    • Lux Terrea

      Well that would be very welcome news! Where did you get this from?

      • We really need a sarcasm font.

        • US_Citizen71

          Or more posters that are coders that understand “/sarcasm” : )

        • Obvious

          maybe the tt font is the way to go. I usually just put “….”, meaning “use your imagination here” at the end, but often forget

          ….Or maybe tt won’t work here (now having tested it). Oh well

    • Lux Terrea

      Badly timed joke.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Very funny e-dog!

      For the record, no we are not working with Rossi and have never had a relationship with him in any way.

  • kdk

    Been there, done that, people still complain for more public demos before they’ll believe it.

  • I believe he recognizes the need for a solid partner to industrialize.

    Defkalion tried to screw him 5 years ago. Looks like Industrial Heat is trying to screw him this year. Now he’s pursuing another potential partner — apparent acceptance test in June.

  • We really need a sarcasm font.

    • US_Citizen71

      Or more posters that are coders that understand “/sarcasm” : )

    • Obvious

      maybe the tt font is the way to go. I usually just put “….”, meaning “use your imagination here” at the end, but often forget

      ….Or maybe tt won’t work here (now having tested it). Oh well

  • Thomas Baccei

    Bow Wow! How can anyone still take him seriously?

  • Thomas Baccei

    Bow Wow! How can anyone still take him seriously?

    • Chris

      Because the ‘Rossi effect’/anomalous heat produced by the e-cat, is real, verified through independent 3rd party scientists, whose full reports are linked to on this site. That (whether we can take Rossi seriously/is he faking the energy produced by the e-cat) hasn’t been the question for some time now. The question has been how will this technology be commercialised.

  • John

    The continuing saga of kicking the can down the road – more hype with no public demo or sales!

    • Gerrit

      [deleted]

  • Alex Fenrick

    This business of Rossi talking to himself on his own blog through his fake user “Jacky”has now become a daily occurrence. This charade is absurd at this point. Magically enough as usual it contains the extra spaces in parenthesis that Rossi always uses, numerous misspellings, talk of snakes and puppets, and the same vitrol…all while praising himself. That is quite the ego boost there….this has just become ridiculous…

    “Jacky”

    May 3, 2016 at 7:11 AM

    Dear Andrea Rossi,

    Thank you for answer yesterday, I am part of history now ! I hope QuarkX will be very pleasing when she grows up ( F8 ), send thanks to your Team from me, because they are great model workers. I believe you have been choosed by God for this important mission of massive industrialization ( bringing LENR to the world, cheap and clean ) ! Snakes and IH-puppets are trying to stop your great leap forward, with their clowneries and slanders: to protect fat wallets and steal your IP to give to Brillouin in DC Test… Why they file patent if E-Cat do not work ? Do you agree ?

    Blessed Regards,

    “Jacky”

    • First off that’s an accusation, not a fact.

      Second, what would be the point. He can just say what he wants on his forum and often does.

      • Alex Fenrick

        So simple….so that he can have statements and questions posed that he wants in the public eye…but to not come from his own mouth. LENR you seem like a very intelligent person…do you honestly not see that this is Rossi in disguise? When you look back at messages and questions from “Jacky” you see such a pattern. Here is another little gem….

        “QuarkX will be very pleasing when she grows up ( F8 )” — That is a statement by “Jacky” NOT Rossi…it is almost as if he forgot he was talking as Jacky for a moment.

        I also like how Rossi signs with “Warm Regards,” and Jacky signs with “Blessed Regards,”

        I agree it is an accusation…but I really can’t believe you can’t see it…

        • Ophelia Rump

          Even if you were correct, bringing it up does more to make people look questionably at you than Rossi.

          It is sort of conspiracy theorist in nature.
          It just does not play well to an audience.

          • Alex Fenrick

            You would not make a very good forensic investigator with that perspective. The devil is in the details…….

          • Alex Fenrick

            I noticed the QuarkX references as well. While I agree with you that the courts will sort this out…Rossi’s lawsuit has put us all in a position to sit and wait now (probably years in court) while he continues to play out his side to the public. I doubt we will see a product release during the court case. Some of us are just interested in the little breadcrumbs that we keep finding in this big mystery. If Rossi was not so keen on putting his whole story out for the public on his own site…he would deserve some privacy from poking and prodding…I just think all bets are off when you follow his blog…

            Either way…bravo on the double agent move…totally missed the double quotes lol!!!!

        • I can see the similarities in style, I just question the motive.

          Instead, I can see motive from other quarters that might want to discredit him as a loon and are therefore writing in that style so that accusations such as these could be made around the Internet.

          Or he might be losing it. If his scam is about to be exposed he would be under a lot of pressure.

      • Alain Samoun

        The fact is that the writing of “jacky” sounds a lot like Rossi. If what Alex said is true,it would of course show some delusional behavior – An important mission of God -…

        • But instead it was just clever posters being posters, as we should always assume first.

    • “Jacky”

      I’m sorry Alex, that’s actually just me mocking Rossi by using his own writing style and playing into his narrative when “asking a question”. I am not here to stir up any shit, simply to set the record straight. Wikipedia “Great Leap Forward” and it’ll be obvious that this is a joke.

      • Alex Fenrick

        Good try….your account here was created after we discovered Rossi using the extra spaces and other hints. I love double agent stories as much as the next kid 😉

      • Alex Fenrick

        Also there are two other accounts on JONP that exhibit the exact same behavior that quite a few people have noticed. Are those accounts yours as well? I have named the other accounts before on here….

    • Steve Savage

      It would seem we have a Chinese type person mocking an Italian type person all at the expense of an Alex type person .. I feel like I’m in New York again.

      • Alex Fenrick

        And your theory and/or examples to back this perspective?

  • Alex Fenrick

    EDIT: Evidentally “Jacky” is different than the original Jacky user that I still believe is Rossi in disguise…but we now have fake users of the fake user..so this is now a dead issue. I will treat it as such. (I should have caught the quotes the second faker used)
    ————————————————————————————————————

    This business of Rossi talking to himself on his own blog through his fake user “Jacky”has now become a daily occurrence. This charade is absurd at this point. Magically enough as usual it contains the extra spaces in parenthesis that Rossi always uses, numerous misspellings, talk of snakes and puppets, and the same vitrol…all while praising himself. That is quite the ego boost there….this has just become ridiculous…

    “Jacky”

    May 3, 2016 at 7:11 AM

    Dear Andrea Rossi,

    Thank you for answer yesterday, I am part of history now ! I hope QuarkX will be very pleasing when she grows up ( F8 ), send thanks to your Team from me, because they are great model workers. I believe you have been choosed by God for this important mission of massive industrialization ( bringing LENR to the world, cheap and clean ) ! Snakes and IH-puppets are trying to stop your great leap forward, with their clowneries and slanders: to protect fat wallets and steal your IP to give to Brillouin in DC Test… Why they file patent if E-Cat do not work ? Do you agree ?

    Blessed Regards,

    “Jacky”

    • First off that’s an accusation, not a fact.

      Second, what would be the point. He can just say what he wants on his forum and often does.

      • Alex Fenrick

        So simple….so that he can have statements and questions posed that he wants in the public eye…but to not come from his own mouth. LENR you seem like a very intelligent person…do you honestly not see that this is Rossi in disguise? When you look back at messages and questions from “Jacky” you see such a pattern. Here is another little gem….

        “QuarkX will be very pleasing when she grows up ( F8 )” — That is a statement by “Jacky” NOT Rossi…it is almost as if he forgot he was talking as Jacky for a moment.

        I also like how Rossi signs with “Warm Regards,” and Jacky signs with “Blessed Regards,”

        I agree it is an accusation…but I really can’t believe you can’t see it…

        • Ophelia Rump

          Even if you were correct, bringing it up does more to make people look questionably at you than Rossi.

          It is sort of conspiracy theorist in nature.
          It just does not play well to an audience.

          • Alex Fenrick

            You would not make a very good forensic investigator with that perspective. The devil is in the details…….

        • I can see the similarities in style, I just question the motive.

          Instead, I can see motive from other quarters that might want to discredit him as a loon and are therefore writing in that style so that accusations such as these could be made around the Internet.

          Or he might be losing it. If his scam is about to be exposed he would be under a lot of pressure.

      • Alain Samoun

        The fact is that the writing of “jacky” sounds a lot like Rossi. If what Alex said is true,it would of course show some delusional behavior – An important mission of God -…

        • But instead it was just clever posters being posters, as we should always assume first.

    • “Jacky”

      I’m sorry Alex, that’s actually just me mocking Rossi by using his own writing style and playing into his narrative when “asking a question”. I am not here to stir up any shit, simply to set the record straight. Wikipedia “Great Leap Forward” and it’ll be obvious that this is a joke.

      • Alex Fenrick

        Good try….your account here was created after we discovered Rossi using the extra spaces and other hints. I love double agent stories as much as the next kid 😉

        Edit: I stand corrected on this one…evidentally “Jacky” and Jacky are most likely different….Rossi is still absolutely the original fake Jacky in my mind no question. I am sure this will just turn into fake users of fake users now. I will let the issue die.

      • Alex Fenrick

        Also there are two other accounts on JONP that exhibit the exact same behavior that quite a few people have noticed. Are those accounts yours as well? I have named the other accounts before on here….

        • “Jacky”

          Let me explain. I started using the pseudonym “Jacky” after it was discovered that Rossi posts to his own blog. Yesterday I asked a very stereotypical Rossi-style question on his blog (never expecting it to be published, I even left the quotes on “Jacky” in the name) as a way of telling him “hey, it’s obvious what you are doing”. Then he actually published it. Today I kicked it up a notch by using as much of his style as I could, never expecting that to get published either. Then he actually published that too.

          None of the other “suspect” names are mine.

          • “Jacky”

            That is to say, the original Jacky wasn’t me either, only “Jacky” in quotes.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Okay…so since you are saying you are mocking the use of the original Jacky by now posting as “Jacky”..that of course means that you believe Jacky is Rossi. This would make one wonder if Rossi has a couple screws loose if he is allowing someone to mock his very use of his fake character on his own site…or is he trying to diffuse it? I can see how your story could definitely be possible…but that only causes the plot to thicken for me as Rossi actually allowed your post and answered to “Jacky” full well knowing he is Jacky…or at very least aware people are saying so. This is all so very weird day by day….

          • “Jacky”

            Dude, believe what you want. Yes, I believe that the original Jacky is Rossi along with many other users. I thought that referring to QuarkX as a “pleasing” “she” along with “model workers” and “great leap forward” would be a super obvious joke, but apparently not… You guys need to chill out, the courts will surely sort out who is right and if the E-Cat is real.

          • Alex Fenrick

            I noticed the QuarkX references as well. While I agree with you that the courts will sort this out…Rossi’s lawsuit has put us all in a position to sit and wait now (probably years in court) while he continues to play out his side to the public. I doubt we will see a product release during the court case. Some of us are just interested in the little breadcrumbs that we keep finding in this big mystery. If Rossi was not so keen on putting his whole story out for the public on his own site…he would deserve some privacy from poking and prodding…I just think all bets are off when you follow his blog…

            Either way…bravo on the double agent move…totally missed the double quotes lol!!!!

          • I think you’re overthinking it.

            If Rossi wants to make a point but not do so directly and so uses a fake question so that he can do it in the form of a response what’s the big deal. I’m not saying this happened, but… so f-ing what?

            We’ve already seen you made one bad assumption about “Jacky”. Maybe your assumption about Jacky is also wrong. I know he attracts fellow Italians to comment so how about that?

          • Alex Fenrick

            I think posturing is a big deal to Rossi and others. Jacky can say things and ask questions in a controlled way. This is done alot in business actually…planted questions. Rossi goes about things in a very odd manner. I am still convinced the original Jacky is Rossi as well as 2 other users. Admittedly it was only a matter of time before someone capitalized on the matter. I was lazy in not noticing the double quotes that were new imposters bread crumb. You are correct…I may have been fooled the first time…but all the breadcrumbs fit…and I see 100% motive for Rossi to do it for controlled communication…but zero motivation for an anti-Rossi person beyond conspiracy (and thats MY job! lol)

          • Alright. It’s kind of a non-issue for me.

            If it comes up again at a later time I’ll say prove it and who cares.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Fair enough LENR G.

          • Michael W Wolf

            If rossi has a sycophant alter ego. that is a demonstration of Rossi’s ability to deceive. It is very important I think.

          • Timar

            Rather of his INability to deceive. Even with something as simple as fabricating a fake question in a way that it doesn’t immediately jumps at you as being fabricated. Exactly what you would expect from a master fraudster like him 😉

          • Michael W Wolf

            Well, if the new Jacky can imitate Rossi, so could the original Jacky. Seems to me Alex, if Jacky was Rossi, he wouldn’t have published the new Jacky imposture. Maybe it is part of Ih’s PR firm, doing it to have people accuse Rossi of exactly what you are accusing him of. When did this Rossi like Jacky Appear? The original Jacky.

          • Alex Fenrick

            The layers of the Jacky onion…..Jackygate!!! LOL

          • The dialogue dates back at least to Plato/Socrates, so it is a well established form of communication. Socrates sort of got inte trouble though … as we know. We also have the Weaver who rants in a more “make it up as we go” strategy. Here is the latest FUD: http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/lenr-ecat-saga-dewey-weaver-the-fud-uncertainty-machine-in-action/

          • Wow he does appear to be all over the map, doesn’t he.

            Personally I don’t think he knows much of anything and just thinks he’s doing a solid for his friend Darden, fighting the good fight in the trenches.

            If he did know anything he’d probably be under NDA.

          • I think he knows a little too much for his own good. He is genarally p.ssed off by Rossi since he will probably loose the money invested. He certainly tries to please Darden with the FUD but acts too much on impulse and forget what he has written before, since it does not come together logically.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Yea, tell me about it. sigh….

          • psi2u2

            Yes it does make the head spin, doesn’t it?

          • jimbo92107

            Good job emulating Rossi’s style. That’s a tough trick. Advanced Placement Composition class.

    • Steve Savage

      It would seem we have a Chinese type person mocking an Italian type person all at the expense of an Alex type person .. I feel like I’m in New York again.

      • Alex Fenrick

        And your theory and/or examples to back this perspective?

        • Michael W Wolf

          I think it was just tongue in cheek.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Probably…I thought maybe he had a cool Chinese angle for me as a skeptic lol.

          • “Jacky”

            Chinese angle refers to the great leap, which is a tragedy in Chinese history. I am not Chinese but there is definitely a “Chinese angle” in reference to a project by Chairman Mao.

          • clovis ray

            no. it was a cheap shot, aimed at probably one of the most important people on earth, can’t wait myself, in just a few weeks, i hope it big, i mean big time, every network, blasting it out,over and over again as usual, his new product could not be more fantastic, i mean light,heat,electricity, i would not expect less if he says, it also emits gravity waves, and they have found out how to make it float, just grab on and go for a ride, lol,ha ha, Go Dr.R your very much in the lead where you do the most good, thank you Sir.

    • Michael W Wolf

      I must say Alex, it sounds like Rossi speaking.

  • Actually he said the June test would be days and if successful would lead directly to commercialization.

  • LarryJ

    Not entirely true. Rossi ran an industry in Italy that by some accounts was successful but which ran afoul of powerful vested interests in that country.

    History may be repeating with his latest endeavour.

    He is mid 60’s which is not all that old for people who look after themselves

    • sam

      He learned skills from his fathers successfull business and from the mistakes of his own unsuccessful business.

  • Gerrit

    I can’t wait for the QuarkZ that Rossi will announce next year. That’ll be even more tremendous.

    • Jarea

      Hahaha. ;D

    • Observer

      What, you are not interested in Y?

    • wonderboy

      Just wait for the Super Quark Z350!

      F8 though, until secret customer is happy with product.

  • Gerrit

    I can’t wait for the QuarkZ that Rossi will announce next year. That’ll be even more tremendous.

    • Jarea

      Hahaha. ;D

    • Observer

      What, you are not interested in Y?

    • wonderboy

      Just wait for the Super Quark Z350!

      F8 though, until secret customer is happy with product.

    • Chris Marshalk

      What till you see the Quark 360. That’s gonna be another diversion which will replace the other Quark devices.

  • Gerrit

    [deleted]

  • I think you’re overthinking it.

    If Rossi wants to make a point but not do so directly and so uses a fake question so that he can do it in the form of a response what’s the big deal. I’m not saying this happened, but… so f-ing what?

    We’ve already seen you made one bad assumption about “Jacky”. Maybe your assumption about Jacky is also wrong. I know he attracts fellow Italians to comment so how about that?

    • The dialogue dates back at least to Plato/Socrates, so it is a well established form of communication. Socrates sort of got inte trouble though … as we know. We also have the Weaver who rants in a more “make it up as we go” strategy. Here is the latest FUD: http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/lenr-ecat-saga-dewey-weaver-the-fud-uncertainty-machine-in-action/

      • Wow he does appear to be all over the map, doesn’t he.

        Personally I don’t think he knows much of anything and just thinks he’s doing a solid for his friend Darden, fighting the good fight in the trenches.

        If he did know anything he’d probably be under NDA.

        • I think he knows a little too much for his own good. He is genarally p.ssed off by Rossi since he will probably loose the money invested. He certainly tries to please Darden with the FUD but acts too much on impulse and forget what he has written before, since it does not come together logically.

  • Tannenbaum

    “Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love you tomorrow — you’re always a day away!”

    Seriously, I don’t doubt for a minute that LENR is real, nor do I think that Rossi is a con man. But these constant promises with no delivery are trying the faith of even his most loyal supporters. Please, Dr. Rossi, stop telling us what you’ll have tomorrow, and just show us what you’ve got today.

    • Jean the Baptist

      Poki maledetti e subito

    • Engineer48

      Rossi has quoted me a 6 month delivery on a 10MWt 105C steam reactor delivery.

      • clovis ray

        seriously, wow that is great news. have a link.

      • Guru Khalsa

        This is great news. Have you signed the contract yet?

  • Rossi Fan

    “I’m saving myself for Mr. Right” only works if you’re a virgin. Rossi already gave the store away to the Chinese. Time to give Frank and LENR VIPs a demo. No excuse not to.

  • Jean the Baptist

    Questo è un fenomeno. Quanti anni sono che va avanti con ste scoperte? Ma non c’era un test durato in anno con un impianto localizzato presso un cliente? Come è andato?? Adesso invece c’è una nuova scoperta

  • Jean the Baptist

    Who knows Totò, marvellous italian actor?

  • f sedei

    This is becoming as intriguing as a John LeCarre spy mystery. Question: When will the movie hit the screen?

    • LuFong

      I don’t know but when IH responds to the civil suit or it goes to court I’m hoping something hits the fan for somebody.

      • Pweet

        I don’t think anything will hit anyone. I think those who believe this legal dispute will show whether the ecat technology actually works will be seriously disappointed.
        From what I can see, neither side has acted very ethically; Rossi for selling a non operative technology, and IH for on-selling it to others while also knowing, or at least strongly suspecting, that it was non operative.
        Thus neither side will be saying they categorically stated that it worked or did not work.
        Rossi will refer to his constant f9 proviso to exonerate himself from any guilt in over stating the safety of investment in it and IH will simply fall back on their statement that they couldn’t substantiate the Rossi results. Neither claim is all that derogatory to the other side.
        The main task of the legal action will be to determine if compensation should be awarded to either side on account of non performance of contractual obligations.
        I can’t see any proof that the ecat actually works or not coming from any of this.
        Once it’s all over all we will see is how much a good lawyer can extract from a not so good lawyer in an argument about how many angels you can fit on the head of a pin.
        My belief is zero, but that reality will make no difference in a legal case about such ethereal matters.

        • LuFong

          There are two issues: the civil case and its merits and then there is the E-Cat and whether it works. I don’t care about the first, only the second. I hope enough enough information is released to be able to determine the second definitively. The ruling on the civil suit and whether are E-Cat works is only tangentially related.

          Please also keep in mind that just about everything you know about the case, both about Rossi and IH, has come from Rossi. I have some strong opinions based on what I know but I am also waiting on IH to release there information (which could swing me either way).

  • f sedei

    This is becoming as intriguing as a John LeCarre spy mystery. Question: When will the movie hit the screen?

  • Jjaroslav

    The problem with suing an inventor is that they can and will move the target just someone takes aim…..a some point though he’s going to have to stop dribbling and shoot……sorry for the mixed metaphor…

    • guest

      [ nickname: help_lenr ]
      There is also a problem in suing a billionaire, a billionaire may use his money to manuver the court. Recall: Tom Darden hired the service of top lawyers.

      • Jjaroslav

        So it will be interesting to see who he picks to be his champion…..I vote Siemens or GE.

  • jimbo92107

    Good job emulating Rossi’s style. That’s a tough trick. Advanced Placement Composition class.

  • Bob

    Is the Rossi vs IH thread topic page removed or just a temporary issue? I thought I saw a reference to some update on the subject, but when I click the “Rossi vs IH Thread” link on the title bar, I get a “Page cannot be found” response. (Perhaps the link has taken on the secret customer and Rossi factory mantra….. it cannot be found!) :0
    .
    Seriously though, it is not working on my system. Any one else?
    Thanks,

  • Stephen

    Maybe the surprise is not something new but instead just its simplicity or even familiarity. Maybe when we see it and understand its principles we will wonder how come we didn’t make it before. Especially if the basic principles have been already known for 100 years or something.

    After re-reading the posts though I think it something new and unexpected. That’s exciting to think about.

  • sam

    Things are going good for A.R other than him and I.H are in a
    dispute.

  • LuFong

    And I’m saying I hope this gets resolved one way or another with certainty.

    • It seems many things will get cleared up by the harsh light of a lawsuit. But somehow I am strangely confident that ambiguity will persevere.

  • clovis ray

    look, if DR.Rossi, wanted you to know where he lives i’m sure he would tell you, but he does not want people like you creeping around his property, i know i certainly would not, you clandestine capers will only succeed, in making Dr.Rossi mad, and he will quit telling us anything at all, sorry for this kind of behavior, Dr R, you know how it goes soooo very well, but your day in the sun is coming, and that sun is rising.

  • psi2u2

    Yes it does make the head spin, doesn’t it?

  • clovis ray

    no. it was a cheap shot, aimed at probably one of the most important people on earth, can’t wait myself, in just a few weeks, i hope it big, i mean big time, every network, blasting it out,over and over again as usual, his new product could not be more fantastic, i mean light,heat,electricity, i would not expect less if he says, it also emits gravity waves, and they have found out how to make it float, just grab on and go for a ride, lol,ha ha, Go Dr.R your very much in the lead where you do the most good, thank you Sir.

  • HAL9000

    e-cat… the discovery that will make physics Great Again!

    • LilyLover

      Physics has always been great, it’s simply underpaid in the World that adulates bartenders / movie stars more than a Physicist.
      Greatness is not an issue, being paid to do great things is THE issue.
      Ignorance keeps upper class parasites alive, knowledge kills them, hence the problem.

      • bachcole

        I like the fact that the people who decide how capital is allocated are risking their own money rather than some bureaucrat who is risking other people’s money. The guy risking his own money is going to be much more keen about getting it right; otherwise we have Solydras.

        • psi2u2

          To be fair, I think you have to assess the Solyndra situation within the larger context of all the businesses that were given or loaned seed money under the same government program. I think that if you do that you will find a pretty good return on the dollar and lots of innovation to boot. I could be wrong about that, but at any rate that seems the fairest way to assess such a program, rather than by one highly publicized and spectacular failure. Of course, when you bundle in the ongoing fiasco of hot fusion then you have a point :(.

          • bachcole

            All good points, even if that side of my brain that is conservative doesn’t like it.

            You mentioned hot fusion, which helps make the point that this system tends to shut out paradigm busters, which is a major gripe around here.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    Why the F8? Will the reactor stop working? Will the discovery be abandoned? Is the report a mistake? What?

    • F8 primarily means whether or not R&D will result in a device that can be industrialized.

      Working on a lab bench and suitable for commercialization are two different things, so he hedges with F8.

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Is it in any way possible that cheap fusion energy at room temperature in a small package could not be commercialized?
        Nonsense. If real, it is the greatest discovery since the advent of electricity. It should be a simple matter to demonstrate it too.

  • Joseph Cameron

    I do not know how I would go about and ask a question to Mr. Rossi so maybe someone can pass along this question.

    Here goes
    How large would a Quark X need to be to generate between 12 and 36 VDC. Secondly is the Quark X sufficiently rugged to be deployed in a harsh environment? Is there a degree of sufficient incentive and NDA’s to perform a quark X demonstration.

    The equipment would need to be manufactured by an American company.

    Please no flaming.

    Joe

  • NT

    Experience is the best teacher, and Rossi has that…

  • Rene

    Something wonderful is going to happen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM25-lz1Yms
    my hope is a demo of the ecatqq, preferably by MFMP, followed by an initial limited production release.

  • Rene

    Something wonderful is going to happen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM25-lz1Yms
    my hope is a demo of the ecatqq, preferably by MFMP, followed by an initial limited production release.

  • That’s a fair point.

    This may change in June with an apparent test of E-Cat X by the potential new industrialization partner. Perhaps some information will leak from that beyond Rossi’s after action report.

    One small correction though. I believe Fabiani was actually an employee of Industrial Heat whilst in the crate and at the time he gave the interview to Mats and Rossi has indicated post-lawsuit that nobody from the test remained on with Leonardo. So Fabiani may be in no-man’s land right now.

  • Omega Z

    ->”continuously something new”

    No. There is the low temp E-cat and the Hot-cat.
    The Quark is just a continuation of the Hot-cat R&D.
    It is a continuation of work in progress. Not Something New…

  • LilyLover

    Physics has always been great, it’s simply underpaid in the World that adulates bartenders / movie stars more than a Physicist.
    Greatness is not an issue, being paid to do great things is THE issue.
    Ignorance keeps upper class parasites alive, knowledge kills them, hence the problem.

  • DrD

    It’s a poor do if he can’t cope with more than one customers needs, irrespective of who he grants manufacturing to. That’s hardly mass production, micro (or NO) production I’d call it. I think you mean “Quark”?

  • Chris Marshalk

    Where is the report that is expected to be released??? Are AR’s lawyers preventing the report from being published?

    • DrD

      IH have it!

    • Engineer48

      Both IH & Rossi have the 3 month report, the 6 month report, the 9 month report and the 12 month report from the ERV that both appointed, aggreed to the instrumentation and data collection method used and jointly paid.

      Strange that only when the 12 month ERV report was received by both that IH called foul & refused to pay the $89m as required by the contract and final 12 month ERV report indicating a COP >= 6.

  • JNM

    Is the QuarkX is linked to the Power Chip development http://www.powerchips.gi/technology/overview.shtml. Borealis patent is linked in one of his patents. They make them smaller than a 1 euro coin.

    • help_lenr

      Apparently not power chip – because power chip is thermionic current and rossi said his electricity is not thermionic.

      • JNM

        Maybe it was considered in the old ecat 10KW modules as they are specifically mentioned in a patent they have for utilising these chips.

  • Samec

    If a numbr of folks already expect QuarkX capable of producing heat, light and electricity, So what can be unexpected ?
    Virtually total selfsustain ?
    Production of thrust ?
    Production of the mass ?

    • bachcole

      I don’t expect squat. I am simply waiting patiently for certainty, and a single, self-interested report from an ageing codger doesn’t give me any sense of certainty.

  • Samec

    If a number of folks already expect QuarkX capable of producing heat, light and electricity, So what can be unexpected ?
    Virtually total selfsustain ?
    Production of thrust ?
    Production of the mass ?

    • guest

      [help_lenr]

      Many effects are expected, not exotic like the ones which you mentioned but very significant in other ways.

    • JDM

      From a previous poster here on ECW,
      Gives back rubs and tastes like bacon!

    • EmTee

      As mentioned before, free available units for public testing!
      If Mr. Rossi is delaying the free availability of testing units, lets say for universities or other widely respected authorities, than the introduction to a mass marked will take longer, because if the LENR process is not widely understood, you never will get permission to distribute them – at least not in the EU.

      • cashmemorz

        Will it also be considered contraband to import from places it will be available? This Will start a war.

      • help_lenr

        Your claim is false.

        There is no need to understand how a device works, in order to use it.

        A state which will wait for a scientific explanation decades before using a device will pay high price for not using low price energy; I don’t think that this will be tollerated by the citizens.

      • INVENTOR INVENTED

        If he doesn’t come through with giving Quark X units to universities and organizations that can verify his claims I will have serious doubts about his veracity.

  • Jjaroslav

    So it will be interesting to see who he picks to be his champion…..I vote Siemens or GE.

  • guest

    [help_lenr]

    Many effects are expected, not exotic like the ones which you mentioned but very significant in other ways.

  • JDM

    From a previous poster here on ECW,
    Gives back rubs and tastes like bacon!

  • bachcole

    I don’t expect squat. I am simply waiting patiently for certainty, and a single, self-interested report from an ageing codger doesn’t give me any sense of certainty.

  • DrD

    Frank, does this answer mean something to you/anyone?

    “Frank Acland
    May 4, 2016 at 6:37 PM
    Dear Andrea,
    Why do you think the revelation of the E-Cat QuarkX will be such a surprise?
    Many thanks,
    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi
    May 4, 2016 at 8:25 PM
    Frank Acland:
    If you put this question, you have imagined a hint of it.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    • Frank Acland

      Not really!

    • MLTC

      No. 🙁

    • Jas

      I think it could be the word Revelation that Rossi is referring too.
      We know Rossi is a religious man.
      If you look up the word Revelation on Wikipedia then you see that the definition has a religious connection. Perhaps he sees the ecat as a devine gift from god?
      Perhaps he will one day be viewed as a saint.
      Saint Rossi! The patron saint of light and heat.

    • Guru Khalsa

      When I read this I thought he meant: give me a specific example of what you think the revelation might be(hint) and I can answer you(yes or no).

  • psi2u2

    To be fair, I think you have to assess the Solyndra situation within the larger context of all the businesses that were given or loaned seed money under the same government program. I think that if you do that you will find a pretty good return on the dollar and lots of innovation to boot. I could be wrong about that, but at any rate that seems the fairest way to assess such a program, rather than by one highly publicized and spectacular failure. Of course, when you bundle in the ongoing fiasco of hot fusion then you have a point :(.

  • Stephen

    This is SciFi but My favorite is some kind of collimated tuned energy neutrino source. I wonder what kind of neutrino tech that would generate. It would make an interesting neutrino thruster maybe or neutrino torch and if a “receiver” could be tuned to those energies make an interesting neutrino probe for geophysics or planetary interiors or perhaps in the distant future allow neutrino communications with little loss of signal. Combined with characteristics of neutrino oscillation etc and maybe fundamental properties with quantum physics and maybe who knows tech would developed in the distant future.

    I like the idea that all products from LENR can be made useful in some way.

    The only thing better than that for me is if it can tell jokes 😉

    • Stephen

      Since a lot of the reactions implicated in LENR seem to produce Helium as a bi product and Helium can easily leak through most materials. Even more than hydrogen. Perhaps it produces lots of Helium and everyone speaks with squeaky voices! That would be a tremendous surprise for every one 😉

  • Eol Awki

    I must say that at this point my biggest surprise will be if we ever see the report on the test, or even get a statement from the mysterious customer. Rossi follows one announcement with another, with another, each adding capability to the technology – each time all attention is diverted to the new announcement with yesterday’s promises fading into the past.

    Where is the report on the independent test?

  • robin emerson

    ‘Tremendous Surprise for Everyone’…ok well the only thing missing from the list is transmutation. so I’m guessing its going to be Ni > Cu… That would be a big surprise for everyone.

  • robin emerson

    ‘Tremendous Surprise for Everyone’…ok well the only thing missing from the list is transmutation. so I’m guessing its going to be Ni > Cu… That would be a big surprise for everyone.

  • ggooggllee anmeldezwang

    “At one point Rossi mentioned that there might be a presentation or press
    conference of some kind. Now Mats Lewan has cancelled the Stockholm
    conference, I’m not sure if Rossi will hold a press conference in Sweden
    as he previously said he would.”

    Any news about this? Any news about his meeting with the Uppsala group?