Rossi’s Business Plan for the E-Cat

From recent comments I think we can now have a fairly clear idea of what Andrea Rossi’s strategy now is in terms of business development.

Some Q&As from the Journal of Nuclear Physics

December 3, 2017 at 9:39 AM
Dr Andrea Rossi,
Can you explain better what did you mean saying that the Ecat industry will go public?

Andrea Rossi
December 3, 2017 at 12:20 PM
The strategy is proceed to the industrialization process immediately, put in the market a product and, after its success, make an IPO for a worldwide rapid expansion.
Warm Regards,

December 9, 2017 at 9:29 AM
Dr Andrea Rossi
Is it correct to say that your new partners have invested with the specific goal to make the industrialization?

Andrea Rossi
December 9, 2017 at 2:08 PM
Warm Regards,

The following are selected quotes by Andrea Rossi from the webcast with the Energy 2.0 Society on December 9th, 2017

Now after the Stockholm demonstration, we go to the next step. The next step will be the presentation of the product. We will try, and I think we can arrive to a massive production, at least for the industrial line of products within 2018, and so in this moment we are working very hard to make the factory and the lines necessary to make a massive production. And what about the future? The future is in the hands of God, but what we hope is that this technology will have an exponential to give to the society all its potential.

To put the product out as soon as possible, we are working on it, and I think that if we will be able to respect the scheduling I said, that would be a miracle, because to make a massive industrialization of a product in this time frame is more unique than rare.

The presentation of the product will be public. It will be the launch of the product.

For now we prefer not to license, but to develop the industrialization worldwide, and eventually, as I said before, give licenses for the utilization of the technology in specific fields. For example, a company that makes cars can be interested to be licensed to use this technology, to make something useful for cars that they know better than anybody else. This will obviously happen once the product will be out. So in this moment we are not looking for licensees, we are looking for industrial expansion, and we have made in Stockholm a very important agreement in this sense, that I think will bring to a fast development of the product, and eventually to the company go public.

My best guess (I have no special info on this at all) is that the important agreement made in Stockholm that Rossi frequently mentions seems to be with some company or entity that has been convinced enough by his presentation of E-Cat technology to put up the funds to bring Rossi the point where he has a product to sell. The next step following a successful product launch would then seem to be an initial public offering that would bring in the funds needed for a large expansion of production capability, which would also bring in returns on investment for this initial investor(s).

At this point it seems to me that it would make sense for Rossi and his team to work flat out to try and get the initial product to market before potential competitors can do so, and to make as big a splash as possible when the product is ready for launch, in order to attract the capital he is looking for.

  • ARM

    Why does Ross avoid specifics like We will finish packaging QXs to provide a commercial unit with output power of say 10 kilowatts with a minimum COP of 4?

    • Vinney

      He has also mentioned that the first products will be for industrial customers.
      They will establish the operational and safety parameters which will aid in getting safety certificates for a smaller domestic version.
      That Rossi has teamed with expertise that can greatly reduce the size and efficiency of his control module means that he will attack the domestic market soon after IPO.
      Because industrial customers don’t need the level of miniaturisation he is aiming for.
      Miniature control systems need safety certifications also.
      He wants to minimize frivolous claims from the ‘legendary’ litigious Western consumer, which may present obstacles ahead of expansion.
      He is clearly thinking through all contingencies, and knows that this technology will be his legacy.

      • Vinney

        With any luck, his venture partner may already have a presence in all major markets and thus a distribution channel.
        One potential obstacle is posed by the authorities ( aided by misinformation from lobby groups and competitors) because of the LENR term.
        He must get operational statistics from independent industrial customers wherever he can to counter this threat.
        This may mean installations outside the US, in say dependable developing economies as Brazil, Chile and Argentina.
        Even if it comes to the point that you have to Hesse the Industrial Heat (and/or power) to large industrial users in these countries.
        The venture company maintains the equipment and maintains security and IP protection 24/7.
        Because authorities ( and any legislation) can easily stall you for years, and then there’s the media backlash.

        • Vinney

          Thinking about it, Brazil would be an ideal pilot market for LENR.
          Its enormously energy hungry and growing population means the government would foster this introduction quite readily.
          They would gladly seize the advantage over the Americans and Europeans.
          Their oil industry has very high production costs (deep, distant offshore wells) and may be one of the early adopters of LENR to raise profits while the price and demand for oil continues to fall.
          All major multinationals (Seimens, GE, ABB and even FIAT) have a large presence in Brazil.
          Once you get the blessing of the government, everything is ‘fast-tracked’.
          State governments would even bid for the opportunity to manufacture the Ecat plant.
          This is all before a Western authority even starts an Environmental Impact Analysis.

  • AdrianAshfield

    Just a guess, but it would make sense that a company like ABB, the large manufacturer of robots, would build the initial modular production line. They have the expertise.
    Then if the reactor works, they would have a lot of business worldwide building more modular lines to suit demand.

  • Dr. Mike

    Of all the comments made above by Rossi concerning his business plan the one that stands out is: “I think that if we will be able to respect the scheduling I said (in 2018), that
    would be a miracle, because to make a massive industrialization of a
    product in this time frame is more unique than rare.” I would have to agree with Rossi that it would certainly be a miracle if he were able to put together a prototype product sometime in 2018. Perhaps some people (maybe lots of people) believe in miracles, but I happen to be one that does not.
    For Rossi to have any credibility for his proposed time to develop a prototype product, he needs to put out some type of timeline or milestone chart showing some of the key milestones that I mentioned in my 10/29/2017 post. One key milestone that I would add to my 10/29/2017 list is: Demonstrate a module of 100 or more QX devices that shows a system COP of at least 10.
    Another important issue with Rossi’s “miracle” 2018 prototype product is that Rossi must insure that the prototype is reliable before he shows it to potential customers. Reliability will be the most important issue in getting the commercial world to accept a new unproven technology. For Rossi to make the statement ” I think we can arrive to a massive production, at least for the industrial line of products within 2018″, I believe he has not factored in the time it will take to verify that the product coming off his “massive production” line is reliable.

    • ARM

      Step 1 demonstrate that a prototype 100 QX unit with a reasonable COP like COP>3 works.

      2nd use that demo to raise funds to optimize and produce it.
      Stop, Stop, lets see Step 1 before anything else. Don’t mention incomplete misleading sentences as a plan. Plan to sell snake oil maybe.

      • Dr. Mike

        For your reference here is the section of my original post to which I now recommend adding as a milestone: “Demonstrate a module of 100 or more QX devices that shows a system COP of at least 10.” I agree that a milestone is not a plan, but timeline chart showing target dates for important accomplishments would at lest show some serious thought has gone into what needs to be done to get a commercial product to the market. I would expect an actual timeline chart to to show many more detail milestones than the generic ones that I have listed. As I stated in my original post, even a timeline chart is only one component of a marketing plan:

        5. Establish a Timeline for Critical Milestones
        A critical component of any marketing plan is to have a timeline with estimated dates of key milestones available for potential customers. Perhaps Rossi already has such a timeline, but has not yet made it public? Some of the milestone dates that might be included on a timeline are:

        Dates for hiring certain key personnel, such as an expert in setting up robotic manufacturing and an expert in heat flow modeling

        Failure mechanisms, failure modes, and reliability understood

        Controller design complete

        Module prototype design for one product complete

        Module prototype built

        Controller and module prototype integrated

        Initial product OR demonstration prototype product defined

        Initial prototype product built

        Automated E-Cat QX device fabrication running

        Reliability established for QX devices made robotically

        Automated module manufacturing running

        Reliability of robotically manufactured modules verified

      • Omega Z

        COP=3 is of no use other then proving excess heat. It requires 3KWh of heat to make 1KWh of electricity.

    • AdrianAshfield

      As I wrote before, the big unknown is how much more work is required on the QX to make a commercial design. After that I don’t see any great problem in building a modular production line in a year, It will be quite small. Also as stated, the product really needs to tested for at least 6 months although I suppose Rossi could make several working reactors to do that, and keep an eye on them.

      • Dr. Mike

        I agree that it is unknown how much more work is needed to get the QX device ready for commercial production. Do you believe that Rossi now has the reliability data from 1000’s of devices and therefore now knows what reliability issues must be addressed in setting up an automated manufacturing process? Do you believe reliability can be verified by “testing a product for at least 6 months” or “making several working reactors and keeping an eye on them”? Rossi’s DEMO gave every indication that QX device and its controller are in a fairly initial state of design. How many QX devices do you think have been manufactured so far that are identical to the 3 that were used in the demonstration? 10’s? 100’s? or 1000’s? If the actual answer is not at least 100’s or perhaps 1000’s, there is a lot of work to be done before even buying the initial equipment for automated manufacturing.

    • Vinney

      His track record to date is remarkable, remember he and a electronics engineer and several technicians built the last 1MW plant in no more than two months.
      The size of the QX version means that the heat generation part can produce 30MW in a cubic meter. We should get a prototype module close to that capacity, and the best route to market acceptance is to get it operational quickly, and that means leasing the industrial heat ( and/ or power) to large customers.
      This eliminates the need for financing for such an expensive unit and other associated risks.
      They have to move in several jurisdictions at the same time to avoid the legislators and bureaucrats.
      Worry about decreasing the controller unit size should be secondary.
      Also, as he correctly points out, that waste heat can be used to preheat process solutions or via heat exchangers converted back to electricity, using latest generation CO2 cycle turbines.
      But then I suppose he doesn’t really want to tell us his detailed plans, as that would be giving all other market operators a planning advantage, for their potentially ‘nefarious’ retaliatory actions.

      • Dr. Mike

        What is really remarkable is that Rossi was able to disassemble the “heat exchanger” and the output pipe from the “last” and only 1MW plant in less than 1 day. Do you really think the prototype product will have a capacity close to 30MW? What market do you think Rossi should initially pursue with this prototype product?
        It is not the size of the controller that needs to be made smaller, the issue is its power consumption. Although there might be some heating applications that could make use of excess heat from the controllers, economics and thermodynamics will make the controller excess heat useless for most applications.

        • Vinney

          He would Be foolish to market to small and medium size customers as he still protective of his IP.
          He wants to limit the number of installations as he will be providing 24/7 maintenance and security.
          To ensure added reliability, they are 30-50% overcapacity, and can combine heat with power (CHP) using technology such as provided by Climeon (incidentally a good venture partner for further product development at least).
          That extra capacity is never wasted, the reactor just lasts longer before refuelling.
          And remember refuelling at this stage means replacing the reaxtor, which means decoupling everything and many man- hours of downtime. Similarly, should banks of QX fail, you have the capacity at hand to switch over.

  • cashmemorz

    Going forward with optimism is only half the story to be successful. All of the ways that a business can have its feet cut out from under it and doing everything in ones power to deal with that is the other half. Rossi’s “snakes”, as he puts it, are everywhere, even after some of his biggest detractors have changed their mind.

    “Dr. Robert Park was well know[n] among the new-energy community for his valiant efforts to destroy the credibility of any new-energy developments that might threaten the flow of funds into the hot-fusion community. Therefore, if he is distressed, it must be a worthy new-energy discovery.” However, since 2012, Park has come to recognize the new-energy developments in a much more positive light.

    There still will be others who are and continue to be detractors if not out right antagonists or plotters to take Rossi or the likes of the eCat QX out of the market before it has a chance to get a foothold.

    A possibility of just that happening seems to be occurring in the way the local electric utility is handling the market. As I mentioned a few times, my local electric utility, the Province of Ontario’s “Power One”, has been sold off to private hands in the last year or so. The new owners had to cover various costs, including paying huge dividends to the renewable power producers and the infrastructure to handle that new influx of power. The result was sky high billing. Until last year, my electric bill was in the low one hundred to one fifty dollars per two months for a household of four adults and one small child. Then, when the new owners took over the utility, the bill rose to over five hundred dollars for the same two month billing period. After complaints from the users, the government made adjustments by mortgaging a large
    portion of what was being charged, so that twenty five percent was taken off everyone’s bill to be paid later on, in thirty years. Basically kicking the can down the road for my children and grand children to pay for that twenty five percent, with interest. So more complaints came out regarding that long term “solution”. I also complained, in writing, to the utility, in which writing I mentioned that I had already ordered two e-cats to make my own power. My bill dropped to eighty six dollars for a two month period. I know I have done nothing in the way of decreasing my usage of electricity, as well as the rest of the household. As far as I know, everyone’s power
    usage habits in my household has not changed, at least not by that much. So what kind of game are the ones in power actually playing? One possibility is that the coming holiday season gives the power company an excuse to decrease the amount of my bill until the holidays are over, that decrease to be recovered by an even greater increase during the new year. Another possibility is that someone in the utility actually read my letter and took my threat of generating
    power off the grid, seriously. And now they want to placate me with very low numbers on my power bill. Remember that the numbers were between one hundred and one hundred and fifty dollars before all this started, and now is below one hundred for the same billing period. A
    third possibility is that the power company has restructured their billing methods to take into account the impending use of revolutionary power production sources such as LENR, Suncell and the like. So the power company may be starting to compete in terms of price structure. And added to that, they may even have put in place plans to use the revolutionary methods of power production. Or not.

    According to Randell Mills, when he approached anyone in the power generation sector, to suggest or explore the possibility of refurbishing existing plants that were to be decommissioned, by placing Suncells into them, the utilities indicated that they would rather go the established route of decommissioning, instituting bond offerings to cover the cost of a completely new, but traditionally powered plant and so on. So that scenario seems to be off the table as far as using LENR or the like by any power utility, including the Ontario power utility. Also remember that the Ontario utility are currently winding down the refurbishing of their system, in the Province of Ontario, Canada. Add to that the even playing field that must exist between similar utilities in the other nine provinces of Canada. To have just one province not taking LENR to heart would be a non competitive decision. If even one of the other nine provincial utilities went the route of implementing LENR, the others would per force have to do the same. Also, for the Ontario utility to start into another major project, so soon after having already run up huge costs, to now rethink how they do things by including LENR into the mix, may be too much to consider in so short a time. Especially when costs are an immediate consideration. Adding revolutionary methods into the mix would just increase costs in the short term. And then the complaints would not only be troublesome but have to take into consideration another huge, if only a short term, increase in costs and the resulting higher billing, kicking that larger can down the road and the like.

    The only route open to the utilities, not to mention others dependent on traditional methods of powering the economy, is to keep revolutionary power production methods completely out of the market. The Canadian military had put out a report a few years ago, where one of the items
    listed as being their responsibility, is the influence of LENR on the economy. If the military has a responsibility in keeping the status quo in the financial health of the country, Canada, then the status quo of the electrical sector will no doubt be on their minds. See where that is going? Those who will choose to use LENR might get a very quiet visit from the military to stop using classified methods of power generation. No media involved. Maybe.

    Has Rossi taken this into consideration? The military or the mafioso’s might not have to lift a finger against Rossi himself or against Leonardo Corp. In this scenario.

    • AdrianAshfield

      “According to Randell Mills, when he approached anyone in the power
      generation sector, to suggest or explore the possibility of refurbishing
      existing plants that were to be decommissioned, by placing Suncells
      into them, the utilities indicated that they would rather go the
      established route of decommissioning, instituting bond offerings to
      cover the cost of a completely new, but traditionally powered plant and
      so on.”

      It would only take a couple of conversions, with the associated reduction in fuel cost and they would all be clamering for it.
      The problem with corporations like that is that they never want to be first. There is no reward for dropping the cost but a big penalty for screwing it up.
      In general, the more they charge the more money they make.

      • Buck

        Nothing more exciting than a structural disincentive . . .

        I speculate that Rossi and his new partners are looking to find those corporations open to the benefits of cost reduction and 1st mover advantage . . . I am guessing that they will gain leverage if they agree to a 1-2 year lead (no sales to competitors) for those willing to install the E-Cat Quark system . . . a deal worth something if they demand an open/public accounting at the end of the 1-2 years on the operating benefits . . . an excellent piece of information leading into the public IPO. I can easily imagine that these early adopters might want options to purchase the IPO stock at a reduced price as further incentive.

        • ARM

          Your big mistake is you are assuming he has a good COP. Everything falls apart when your assumption cannot be proven or demonstrated.

    • Omega Z

      Converting soon to be decommissioned plants isn’t a good idea. There being shut down because they are worn out and the materials brittle. They are a safety hazard. In addition, neither the Suncell or the QX could incorporated with the existing boilers. The cost would be huge for something that may not even work without many iterations.

      It would be better to just build out a small 10MW-20MW power plant from scratch and for sure far cheaper. Incidentally, one of the benefits of LENR is not requiring major N-gas lines or rail system for fuel needs. This allows for smaller distributed power plants at point of use with huge savings in electrical transporting infrastructure.

      Note in the U.S. that power plants and distribution are separate. While I’m stuck with the distributor, I select whom I purchase electricity from.

      • Engineer48

        Hi OmegaZ,

        LENR hybridisation of existing thermal plant steam systems is indeed possible.

        Main drivers for replacement LENR boilers will be kWh generation cost savings from almost no cost Ni fuel cost, much lower maintenance costs from not burning fossil fuels and no environmental impact costs.

        Did this exercise for a mid life thermal plant and know it is very financially attractive for EVERY thermal plant owner and operator.

        • Omega Z

          Yep, I never said it wasn’t possible. Just not economical for old plants designated to be decommissioned. If it were economical, they would have done converted them to natural gas which would be far cheaper then converting them to LENR. These plants are just worn out from metal fatigue and brittleness, not just the boilers which likely isn’t conducive to E-cats, but the turbines themselves.

          I would propose something like 10 megawatt super critical co2 systems(50% efficiency). GE has a 10 megawatt turbine that nearly sits on a desk top. Probably a 20 megawatt unit would fit an 8×30 foot container. They could be built on a factory assembly line and dropped on a concrete platform. Wire it in and done. Can’t build anything cheaper then that.

          Drop these on the roofs of glass towers in New York and link them together for micro grids. The waste heat can be used for heat in the winter and heat absorption chillers in the summer. (This May Be Something for You to Incorporate into Your Plans) Possibly a total average efficiency of 80% or more. The waste heat would also be available for a local green house.

          A factory production plant once a component supply chain is setup. What 1, 2, 3 Gigawatts capacity of power plants a week.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Omega Z,

            Yes the new super critical CO2 turbines are amazing and with 50% t to e conversion efficiency very hard to walk away from for new designs.

            I worked on hybridisation of a dirty coal plant that was shutdown as rhe dirt coal was increasing in moisture content. Plant had 4 x 60MWe plus 2 x 260MWe subcritical turbines. All new 10 years ago.

            Others had already paid for the hybridisation study using a solar thermal molten salt front end.

            The plant owner was keen to extend the plants life by progressively feeding in steam from external thermal sources.

            I’m not aware of any other such studies done on mid life thermal plants.

            End result was it was not that difficult to progressively hybridise a thermal plant.

            Life time fuel cost savings plus no environmental taxes showed it was a no brainer for the owners to fund the changes.

            However at the end, the solar guys could not come up with the goods.

            Likewise neither could Leonardo. Too much, too soon.

            So the plant is now gone.

            Was looking forward to being given the “GO” to do at least 1 of the 60MWe subcritical turbines. It was hard for the whole team to hear “It is not happening”.

  • Anon2012_2014

    I’m kind of done with proclamations by Dr. Eng. Rossi of future business plans. I would like to see him sell a few of these into the market unencumbered by the need for secrecy as to its output performance. A 10 kW heater machine with COP 6 is worth say $50K to at least 1000 customers. That’s $50 mm. I am assuming he can build them for $25K. That’s $25 mm profit. It’s a competitive extension for a Telsa solar roof + powerwall, i.e. heat, air condition, and provide electricity for your house and your car forever for $100K. People would buy it. If he doesn’t want to demo the voltage x current across the reactor that’s fine if he begins selling some actual commercial units without a secrecy commitment. If they work, he will sell out all his production like Tesla, and quickly raise $2 billion to build them as fast as he can build them.

    Otherwise, I am kind of done. veritas in mercatus (or whatever the actual latin is for this).

  • Atsom

    Would like to ask Dr Rossi if the control box in the demo of 60W cooling is suitable for the control of an array ( series / parallel) of QX of 1kW heat output?

    • Frank Acland

      I asked on the JONP, Rossi replied that the answer is “yes”

  • ARM

    It would cost peanuts.

  • I cannot fault your first two paragraphs, which others, including myself have long thought and said. What with the wealth of previous LENR-related work, much of which has been recently re-discovered and/or re-published by Bob Greenyer, any Patent or other IP that Rossi might think he has locked up will be swept aside by the likes of those large operators you cite and the world will be swamped with cheap but working knock-offs by said parties who also much larger legal budgets than Industrial Heat.

    It is only your last paragraph that I dispute. IMHO, Rossi is not consciously nor pre-meditatively a fraud. He has made a genuine, if only partly original, contribution to LENR and should be praised for that. But so should the other “LENR Martyrs” – most of which lay forgotten until Bob’s Indiana Jones-like rediscoveries.

  • cashmemorz

    That would mean that Rossi even fooled the Canadian military into thinking that the effect is real, when it really isn’t? Doesn’t say much for the Canadian military if they can be fooled into considering that LENR is to be taken seriously. Or they weren’t fooled, some one else is foolish.

    • LilyLover

      Generally, it’s easier to fool that type of client than the scientists or the industrialists who need to protect their reputation or funds.

      • cashmemorz

        I take your point. LENR is more likely real in the over all picture, which the military are actually addressing. Who exactly or which particular entity puts a LENR device into the market could be anyone, if kept totally secret even more so than Rossi is doing. Rossi likes to show of, more like tease, Whether Rossi’s devices real or not, is up for grabs. It is just the thought of Rossi not being real leaves the possibility that he might be deluded. Steorn with his ORBO seems to have that covered so others might exist as well. Even due diligence by a partner of Cherokee, seems to have been in doubt.

  • Anon2012_2014

    “The moral of the story is if something is worth while copying and selling at knock down price it will be”

    False and completely non sequitur. If Rossi can actually build a mousetrap, he will get all the funding he wants. Sure someone might try to go around his patents, but Rossi would be first mover, and besides, with his war chest as first mover, he can use patent litigation to prevent someone from walking all over his IP. This has NOTHING to do with someone pirating George Lucas’s Star Wars, i.e. that is completely unrelated even if it is true. At this stage, I have extreme doubts that Rossi is able to build anything, as all we see from him is partial demonstrations without the conclusive additional parts (i.e. voltage across the reactor) that we need to draw a conclusion. I hope Rossi can do it, but the time is getting to be past for him. Using these kind of excuses is just too convenient for him. Sell or demo the real thing please.

  • Anon2012_2014

    Scottishman — have you ever applied for a patent? And besides, there are only 10 or so countries that have sufficient market demand to protect first — the others can be patented later from a position of strength. No selling anything because of some hypothetical patent weakness is just not an excuse.

    • ARM


    • Thomas Kaminski

      I have and he is correct. I spend $250,000 on a patent in 30 countries, required by the licensee 20 years ago.

      • Anon2012_2014

        US, Japan, France, Germany, UK, China, Russia, India, Brazil, Korea — that’s 67% of world GDP. If the thing is working so well, you can patent the rest later after you have a business with cash flow. Why worry about applying for patents in 200 countries when 170 of them will never matter that much. That’s putting the cart before the horse,

        • Thomas Kaminski

          Nice try, but if your licensee says you will, you license it in all countries that matter to the licensee,

          • Anon2012_2014

            You’re using a purported need to have ex-ante patent coverage for the entire 200 countries of the United Nation with a $1 mm patent filing cost as an excuse for the business arm of Dr. Eng. Rossi not to give incontrovertible proof of anything ever. It’s 2018 now, not 2012. Exactly whose comment is a “nice try”?

          • Thomas Kaminski

            Patents can be a bottomless pit of financial drain. All a patent does is gives you a license to exclude others from using your idea for a limited time — provided you are willing to sue infringers. Of course, the little guy will not have enough resources to sue deep pocket companies who decide to infringe. In fact, many times the patent suits draw out so long that the little guy is bankrupted by the process. In my experience, patents are very costly and though necessary, keeping “trade secrets” until you have a product and an established market is a better way to go.

            You claim that all you need is a few patents in key countries. Perhaps, but how do you keep products from being imported into a “key country” from a non-licensed entity? That also takes legal resources and time. I think it is much better to join with large industrial players who can help in the manufacturing, marketing, and distribution.

            Perhaps Rossi has chosen the correct path now — sowing enough doubt that there is not a lot of interest, bringing competition, while still attracting key companies.

  • Atsom

    The `old` electronics have high noise immunity but need cooling for their own heaters.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      And can withstand EMPs. “..After a while it was understood that the tubes were used so the plane should be able to withstand EMP. An EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) is generated by the detonation of a large
      nuclear bomb in the atmosphere, the electric field so generated destroys most solid state electronics…”

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Things can get very hot even at low power if heat dissipation is restricted, for example by suboptimal placement of components.

    • Frank Acland

      In the Energy 2.0 meeting, Rossi said that they were working on resolving the heating problem by re-engineering the board.

  • Gerard McEk

    I agree with Dr. Mike that it will be likely that AR will make a standard 2 kW output unit that can be connected to any fluid heater via a hot water circuit. A standard unit that can be combined with other to cope with any size of power demand.
    Building such a unit does not seem difficult. The difficulty is the controller for it and the dissipation problems he has with it. Solving this AR needs to transfer some knowledge to an electrical industrial partner.
    I would be not surprised if the QX produces high frequency electrical noise that needs to be controlled in some way. Now this is all dissipated in the controller causing it to heat-up more than expected. If they manage to transfer a part of this surplus of electrical energy into a super capacitor or battery and use it for control, than they may be able to have a closed loop and infinite COP. The demonstration of this to potentional industrial license partners would be utterly convincing and world shocking. Let us hope that Andrea has found a world class electrical partner that can make his controller far more efficient.

    • Dr. Mike

      I don’t think a 2KW unit will be Rossi’s first product, I said he should demonstrate a 100 QX device unit that shows a system COP of 10 or more as a milestone to show that the controller overheating issue has been resolved. , The idea that the overheating in the controller is due to “high frequency electrical noise” that is “all dissipated in the controller causing it to heat-up more than expected” is supported by no data other than it is known that the controller is overheating and some have suggested that the overheating is caused by electrical feedback. It is more likely that the over heating is caused by an inefficient electrical design (especially when only driving 3 QX devices at 30% power) or that the controller is really delivering much more power to the QX devices than claimed in the demonstration.

    • Tom59

      Years ago AR worked with National Instruments on the control issue and he later stopped that collaboration. Back then some guys at NI seemed quite excited about their observations with the Ecat but AR apparently did not make much progress ever since. I never understood why he stopped but with more patents in place and little success on his own, he could return to those experts. The only disadvantage – if he has nothing, they will figure that out quickly. Then better keep working with old friends.

      • LilyLover

        I think Dr. Rossi handed over one simple black box to Siemens/Someone-else and another to NI. The Complex black box went to NI. NI solved the problem without knowing the big picture. Then NI fragmented the the black box into smaller modular units most of which could be purchased off the shelf. Then, the one thing that wasn’t there, was special design and manufactured for the first time for the E-Cats. Once NI helped produce that missing piece, Rossi had all the modular black boxes under his control without anyone knowing how they do what they do. His team could put it all together and now the next step of this modularity is to integrate all the black boxes on one circuit board which can be installed onto the E-Cat. Much like an old video-game cartridge onto the gaming console. Thus, the manufacturer of the micro-E-CatQXes will not be able to produce the cartridges and will simply have some dumb hardware. The ABB robots will install the cartridge onto the Home-E-CatQXes. Thus the entire process can remain controlled under the extreme legal contracts.

        Every step he has taken so far is perfectly the most logical under the circumstances. I applaud his methods!!!

        & Dear Andrea, if you have not thought of this, please think about it.

        • Tom59

          Interesting details but I would appreciate your comment on the controller performance during the 1 yr test. There is also still the option initially promoted – the Home Depot Ecat – integrated into a home heating system that does the temperature control but is supported by the Ecat at varying heat supply levels. Sounds useful to me and should be easy by now with so much more experience.

        • Thomas Kaminski

          LilyLover: NI also has a process by which a LabVIEW VI can somehow be incorporated as code for a FPGA, as does Matlab. Perhaps that is what they used.

          I have used both the NI Programmable Automation Controllers and the Rockwell/Allen Bradley PLCs. Frankly, when I used them Rockwell was much more stable. LabVIEW was more of a research lab instrumentation controller.

      • Frank Acland

        I think one issue was that NI designed instrumentation mainly for lab environments, and Rossi was making industrial scale plants.

  • LarryJ

    You want absolute proof and that is absolutely not possible and not wanted by Rossi until he has a product. What you need is to have faith in your own judgement which does not require absolute proof and which you clearly lack so you will just have to wait for those two units you ordered and by then the fun and anticipation will be over.

    • wonderboy

      my only comment is how many times have we heard Rossi say he will be industrialize this year, robotized assembly line, etc, shall we really go through the list of claims?

      To be honest, when I saw his post, it was very similar to posts he makes every year. Rossi has no obligation to provide proof to anyone. But you can only claim the sky is falling so many times. In his case, how many years can you claim this is the year for industrialization, or secret customers, etc…

      He is someone who loves the spotlight, and has been making public claims for a while, then falls back on, my claims are my own, no need to provide proof. At some time you just have to shut up or nut up!

      • Omega Z

        Actually, the IH/Rossi deal put everything on hiatus at the end of 2012. So Rossi hasn’t made the claims of manufacturing since then. However, I can see how some things could be taken out of context. Such as setting up a new factory when what he really meant was setting up a new location for doing his R&D. And it should be noted that they did build a 1MW container there. And when IH setup an R&D lab, Rossi spoke of factory. Likely, Rossi either confuses the the term”Possible” or is being intentionally ambiguous to keep competitors in the dark.

        Anyway, This time Rossi’s statements seem substantially different. He’s definitely put it in a manner that puts him in a corner. I don’t think he would do that. I believe he is headed for manufacturing.

        Fifteen years ago, large(inexpensive) OLED screens were headed for market. Like 2 years away. Fifteen years latter, they are just starting to emerge into the market and they are expensive. Sometimes, unexpected problems arise.

  • NCY

    Yep… this is pretty much what I think too. As a relatively rich man in his twighlight years, If I were Rossi I would be less focused on making money and would release everything I knew to prominent research institutions, just to see how far they could go with it during my lifetime.
    As it is he is going to die with a primitive holy grail in his basement.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi claims to want this technology deployed as economically and cheaply as possible. I take his word on that for now. What I know is that if he gives it away to others, there is zero chance of that. It will be what the market can bear. You pay 30 cents a kilowatt hour now. With this, you will only pay 29 cents per kilowatt hour.

      Or Worse, It’s 35 cents per kilowatt hour, but you have to use it because it doesn’t generate CO2. OH, And in our world, costing more is considered competitive. he he he…

  • Dr. Mike

    Even though the controller may be capable of operating 50 20W QX devices as currently designed, we won’t know what power the controller dissipates when operating this many devices until it is demonstrated. I agree that 1KW of heat produced using only 60W of electrical power would be a very useful product.

  • mcloki

    I ownder if the E-Cat is powerful enought for Rossi and partners to buy an old Coal generating plant and see if they can retrofit E-cat boilers. All the infrastructure is there for them to generate electricity and sell it.

    • LilyLover

      Dr. Rossi is a “new” guy. As is Dr. Mills. Let me explain. They have no interest in upgrading giant old crumbling infrastructure that needs maintenance and manpower. The desirable scale of operation seems to be a few cubic meters on the upper end. Something that can be tangibly managed by a single person with occasional visits. Hence the decentralized local vision of a small community being served by the Tiger and the Cats for the individual homes and the kittens for the mobile gadgets. Old must perish and make room for new. Ignoring the big-old-generation plants is consistent with that. The beauty of the scale of choice is that much higher service-efficiencies can be achieved with better customer happiness and more reliable, redundant, and distributed network for jobs. For centralized control, he can pretty much tune in to hourly-radio-key dispensed by the “On-Star” of his choice. Thus availing him of the benefits of the centralized control with widespread job-creation.
      The old stinks. They’d have none of it. Neither would I. It’s more of a psychology than compromises. And believe me, in this case the choice by the heart will outshine the short focus of spreadsheet calculations. New land may cost more but people will install a smaller gadget than an AC unit gladly! Remember they used to install “Dish” of the DishNetwork!
      Thus retrofit, a ‘not-a-fresh-start’ will not be adopted by either, especially not by the dear Andrea.

      • Vinney

        I am not sure you are correct, at a potential of 30MW per cubic meter, only a couple of cubic meters of Ecat QX’s feeding into the existing turbines.
        Remember, his energy is still unproven (safety wise) and many gas fired power stations are close to population areas, so attractive to LENR conversion.
        I think it is feasible if someone else (the electricity company) pays the bills or if they are given the plant for nothing, it can be done.

        • Vinney

          I think we have reached a consensus here that Rossi should attempt to sell (lease) industrial heat to the biggest customers he can find
          Remember, it will then be single installations, easy to maintain and provide security for.
          Hence, potentially his biggest customers should be coal power stations.
          I know you think they are diametrically opposed to this idea.
          But think about it, they are leasing the heat at very opportune market rates.
          They will be saving millions whilst going out of business.
          I think its termed ‘creative’ destruction in full evidence.

  • Atsom

    60W heat loss is not the total enery consumed by the control system. This is the excess heat of electronics to run and work. Dr Rossi is looking into miniaturision, as he said it will be like from the old computers to the mobile he had. I think all the demo’s intention was to get exposure to a possible control circuit/system miniaturization partner. A goal which maybe was reached!

  • Thomas Kaminski

    If there really was 2kWatt in the box on the table, the fan noise would have been a lot louder. Think hair dryer..

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Haven’t listened to this yet but they mention cold fusion.

  • sam

    manuel cilia
    December 13, 2017 at 3:15 AM
    Dear Dr Rossi

    Thank you for the demo the other day it is always exciting to see the ecats out and about. Is Roger Green still your commercial licensee in Australia?

    Thank you

    Andrea Rossi
    December 13, 2017 at 8:09 AM
    Manuel Cilia:
    Thank you for your attention to our work.
    We do not have licensees in Australia.
    Warm Regards,

  • I cannot wait to see small energy producing units in the market, providing a highly distributed energy system. Now working in a project studying digitalisation of the energy industry, I see an increasing focus on security issues, with Stuxnet and the larges scale attacks on Ukraina’s electric grids as scary examples. It’s obvious that you can make a nation collapse completely by producing a total blackout for a few days, without using one single traditional arm.

    The vulnerability of digitally connected infrastructure is a nightmare. But the solution is getting closer. Falling prices on solar and batteries are helping. LENR based small scale energy modules would complete the transition. Large scale grids would be there for convenience, if they can be smart enough to stay relevant. But in emergency we would manage sustained energy production without them. We just have to get there.

    • Jag Kaurah

      Spot on Mats,

      Highly distributed energy systems with solar, wind, LENR supported by minimal battery storage and smart systems is the future.

      • Jag Kaurah

        Forgot anaerobic digestion. Community scale anaerobic dig-esters with electricity generation can be used to balance supply and demand.

        We are building a project that has various organic farms co-located with a food court and a market powered by solar and anaerobic digestion of the food waste with minimal battery storage.

        • Thomas Kaminski

          Perhaps, but in Madison, the large scale waste treatment plants serving the area are not able to generate a surplus of electricity. They do use generated methane to provide heat and some electricity for the waste treatment, though. The digested liquids and solids are used in local farm fertilization.

          Large scale livestock anaerobic digesters (associated with “CAFOs”) in Wisconsin are primarily used to handle the waste stream. Electricity generated from them are sold to the utility grids and pay for operation and maintenance. A plus is to use the liquid digestate for fertilizer and the dried solids for bedding for the cows. Some solid waste s even sold as plant plant bedding material.

          I would be interested in a link to your project.

          • Jag Kaurah

            Yes, Thomas,

            It is not easy to optimize anaerobic digestion, lots of factors to consider like balancing the source of waste to optimize methane production, the microbes used…………. That expertise is very well developed in our part of the world and a significant amount of electricity produced is surplus.

            Very happy to link up

    • Omega Z

      The E-cat could operate as a small local grid eliminating most of the major infrastructure of today, but still a grid. A grid is just far more economical for the consumer.

      The question that continues to bother me- Why is all this stuff connected to the internet to begin with. Electrical distribution, Power plants, N-gas, Oil platforms, Water treatment, etc, etc… We put people at great risk so a few can have the convenience of not having to be on site to do their jobs. All this was done without internet connections long before it existed. If some don’t want to bother being on site to do their jobs, they should look for a different line of work…

      • cashmemorz

        Economics trump living wages. Competition, as a euphemism for greed, drives

        the particular actions any business will follow. If this is true then the sooner LENR hits that competitive market, the better. Another way of stating this is, if the way to compete is to remove as many workers as possible to keep the costs down, then LENR will help remove absolutely all workers from the grid based utilities. Then we will see competition of a different kind. I wonder how many grid workers and owners take that seriously.

        • Omega Z

          If that brave new world includes technical training and manual labor, people will be in for sticker shock. There is a shortage of such people for those tasks. A new central air & heating system (Cost less then $2000) will cost another $6000 installation fee. Not bad for about 10 hours labor.

          Or, a 5 foot 1.5 inch pvc pipe tied to a tee, 2 elbows and a 4 foot vertical pipe with 2 straps gets you a drain pipe for your washing machine. One hour install $480. I can make quite a list, but you get my point. No one wants to work in the trades anymore and those who do can charge exorbitant fees. The economics in energy is in a localized grid.

          Hurricane Katrina a dozen years on and still rebuilding due to a lack of skilled trades. How many years and how much are you willing to pay for a home power system?.

          • cashmemorz

            I have put my own power system into my home and others as a handyman after being an engineering technologist in several high tech places. So for someone like me its peanuts work.
            A few thousand dollars on top of a few Rossi type LENR devices would be the bulk of the rewiring and interface for the LENR device. About equal to a few years of sky high power cost for my privatized power. Used to be low cost non-profit in Ontario Canada. A short term pain in the wallet to be independent and then very low cost. Amortize the initial cost over 3 years will put most home LENR user in the black and very low cost after that. A good deal in the long run. Of course the user will have to keep an eye on the installation in case something goes wrong. In the longer run even that part will eventually be automated and a service guy will come. That will be the next big cost after the first year or two of warranty. So I add another $50 for a 5 year extra warranty. Then a newer model LENR device will replace the first model just like computers and other appliances. That is the long term picture of LENR home use.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Cashmemorz,

            Agree. Not a biggie for me either.

            For sure my home plus those of family and friends will have QX electricity, hot water and hot and cold air.

            I plan, as disclosed before in this site, as I’m a non exclusive agent of Leonardo, to create a business that sells, installs and services such home and business QX energy generation plants.

            My 1st plant is already designed.

          • Paul Smith

            Hi Engineer48, I think that the condenser has to be cooled.
            If the plant works, it would be extraordinary. Free energy in closed loop.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Paul,

            Design assumes dynamic reactor output control. So heat lost to external thermal loads + electrical load = reactor output.

            Which assumes there are various thermal loads on the heat exchanger and auxiliary condensor.

            Maybe add a fan on the condensor?

          • Paul Smith

            I think that the control box of reactor must have the capacity to regulate separately the outputs of heat and electricity.
            In this way there could be two separate control systems.
            The first on the heat produced by the reactor, adjusted by the temperature of the condensed water exiting from the condenser (this will be a constant set-point).
            This loop is influenced by the total extracted heat.
            If one heat load change, it will influence the temperature of water and, in turn, will change the heat produced by the reactor to maintain constant that temperature.
            The second control loop (electricity produced) is adjusted by the total electric energy utilized.
            The condenser will be cooled by a fan or, if possible, by a flow of cold water needed for some other need.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Paul,

            There is much to learn about the control dynamics.

            Regulating constant thermal output and constant electrical output is the challenge vs reactor total energy gain.

            When i get my hands on the 10kW QX I have on order from Leonardo, designing and developing the external fluid and power control systems will be interesting but not beyond what I can handle.

            Even if I need a Carnot cycle system to generate the electrical power, not a show stopper.

          • Paul Smith

            You are right, it will be a very interesting and stimulating challenge.
            Because as you say, the system is dynamic. The loads (thermal and electric) can vary independently along time, and the outputs of the reactor must follow those variations automatically.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, I can build a house from the ground up. Cabinets, plumbing, All of it, and have. Couple years ago, I installed a new outside electrical service and 200 amp breaker box inside. I was told by a contractor it would cost $4000 dollars and require 2-3 days. Took me $600 in materials and 4 hours to power back on. “4 hours” Hey, I’m getting old. Use to do it in 3 hours. Installed a new furnace and duct plus cold air return and central air in 10 hours by myself when a contractor said it would require 2 people 2 weeks.

            The point is very few people percentage wise can do any of this themselves. You know how people change a flat tire in the U.S.. They call roadside service. They can’t handle a jack or even know what a tire iron is. Thus the reason the car companies get away with eliminating spare tires replaced by a can of fix a flat. Even fix a flat is complex for most people.

            Fifty percent of those in the skilled trades and craftsmen are set to retire in the next 10 years thus exasperating an already existing shortage of those skills sets. Those who are good at what they do can charge whatever the market will bear and as there is little competition those prices can easily become exorbitant.

            People like you and I need to keep this in mind. Just because we can deal with these things, the general population can’t. Their at other peoples mercy. While I tangle with Georgehants about his socialist views, it does not mean I don’t think about the unfortunate. I just think his ways make the problem worse. Not better.

            So the question is are you here just for you own gains or do you consider those less fortunate as well.
            Note where I live, I pay a flat $15 for the utility distributor. I can choose who I purchase my electricity from. Some can even select their gas supplier. Not ideal, but there is some competition and I understand that isn’t available to everyone, but It could be.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Last week Dottore Rossi did not have a reliable control system, and this week the automated factories and assembly lines are the order of the day. This narrative sounds scattered and conflicted.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi already indicated 2 simultaneous paths. One is working on refining the control box while the other path is to prepare for industrial manufacturing or the QX.

  • Omega Z

    It will require several years to reverse engineer Rossi’s work and develop their own version of it. As to cheaper better knockoffs. Rossi intends for automated robotized factories.

    POP! That was your cheaper better bubble bursting. The cost of manufactured goods from automated robotized factories are the same regardless where in the world they are located.

    • Engineer48

      Hi OmegaZ,

      Suggest there are people working to replicate the NASA photon initiated LENR results.

      For sure Rossi will be reverse engineered but suggests others will be in the market before that happens.

      The NASA results added to the QX demo and Gullstrom theory has opened a doorway that many will go through.

      • Omega Z

        Hey E48,
        No problem for me if there are competitors. It just keeps them all honest. I hate when people say something is cost competitive when it’s really much more expensive then what you currently have. Competition forces them to really be competitive instead of says so…

  • Omega Z

    No one “claimed to be impossible”.
    Likely the answer already exists among those who’s skills are specifically in this area of concern.

  • sam

    Frank Acland
    December 13, 2017 at 6:42 PM
    Dear Andrea,

    Very interesting.

    1. It sounds to me like you have had a large increase in workers — am I right?
    2. Is your team working on one or two continents?
    3. So far, how do you rate the progress of the increased team?
    4. Do you have the funds at your disposal to achieve your goal of first product introduction in 2018?

    Thank you very much,

    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi
    December 13, 2017 at 9:39 PM
    Frank Acland:
    1- not yet, but soon yes
    2- two
    3- enough
    4- enough
    Warm Regards,

  • LarryJ

    it’s not so much that proof is technically impossible it’s more that it’s practically impossible. As Rossi has explained countless times he must protect his IP if he is to raise the massive amount of capital required to bring this tech to fruition. Any other course of action would delay it even more than it has already been delayed. If you study the history of the ecat you can see that there are some very good reasons for the delays up until this point. The most recent being the several year delay engineered by IH whose primary interest was to sell paper (ie investments). They were money men, not industrialists. If Rossi could have, he would have.

  • Rene

    Deja vu.

    Time for Delphi poll: “Rossi will have heat generating e-cats on the market (can be bought by people) by:
    [ ] mid 2018, [ ] early 2019, [ ], mid 2019, [ ] early 2020, [ ] 2021, [ ] 2023, [ ] 2025+

  • Vinney

    You must have missed the announcement, 30MW per cubic meter.
    The first shipping container with hear exchanger/boiler will be with capacity 10-30MW.
    Way over capacity, but standardised with control systems power usage (used to preheat water or whatever process they are heating).
    This thermal power is leased to the customer, they will be saving millions on power, and if the customer is a power station, they will be saving millions in the time whilst they are going out of business.
    They are going to have to radically rethink their business soon after verifying Rossi’s power density claims.

  • artefact

    Aftenposten about the demo:

    Thans to barty on lenr forum for finding it.

    • Omega Z

      That is a very balanced article. No where does it make claims as to whether the effect is real or not. It lets the viewer decide. Even the Physics professor Dieter Röhrich who is skeptical does not say it’s nonsense. Only that it needs further investigation and proof. I can’t take issue with his view considering there is much not revealed at this time.

  • Charlie tapp

    Dear Rossi your plan is dumb as soon as the first person buys one everyone who has green paint a sewer tee and some harbor freight clamps will have hot water! I do not understand you’re silly logic and I am starting to believe that this whole thing is the same as a motor running a generator running a motor, I applaud frank for following with no criticism against you for so long, (he is a good guy) oh I forgot you also need a trash can and some clear tubeing and a lot of black electrical tape! My ecat is up to cop 6000, it sucks I can’t afford to use twice that in electricity to run it (controller issues you know) because of holidays so I will have to use my way more efficient gas hot water heater for now. Mabee New Years 2025 . I mean really that demonstration was the biggest pile of back yard bullshit I have seen you seriously could not make something that at least looks cool like fake news me356 .i give him more credit for throwing out fake little hints and building something that catches my attention and makes me think wow. He has 100 time the chance of getting an investor over your third grade science project! I just don’t understand how you plan on keeping this a secretive fuel process bla bla bla. Sue me if you want I will have the money because I have all those parts I just have to keep mine plugged in to the wall all the time. That’s right you do too. Merry xmas I hope Santa brings you a new control box,

  • Omega Z

    ->”imho those 250kW devices looked much better engineered than recent ~20W gadgets”

    That’s Your Opinion…
    Those 20W gadgets are far superior with/for real world applications. They will have a much better heat transfer because there is more surface area per watt. Making them ideal for both Jet/Gas turbines with a higher heat to electric conversion efficiency exceeding 50%.

    It is also easier or should I say quicker to “throttle” up/down electricity production according to demand then a steam turbine. A cold and idle LENR turbine could be started up in minutes while steam turbines can take several days, even weeks(Nuclear plant) to start up,

    Gas turbines 1st compress air which is then super heated by the combustion of fuel that greatly expands the air and creates the thrust. While the gas particulates expelled add somewhat to that thrust(and pollution), the primary thrust is still just super heated air. QX modules just replace the combustion gas for super heat. The QX has much greater surface contact with the air thus being far superior to a large E-cat with it’s smaller surface area for heat transfer.

    This makes the QX better for all electrical generation whether power plants, jets, ships, heavy equipment and even makes smaller vehicle’s powered by them much easier and less problematic.

    Note: QX replacement is based on 1 year of operation.(about 8760 hours). For Cars & Trucks, the 1 year recharge would not apply. Recharge would be according to hours used. About 10 years on average.

  • Omega Z

    Do you have any idea how many pellets are used in nuclear power plant fuel rods. Far more the would be required of Rossi’s QX reactors.

    I will say that when Rossi introduced the QX, I took pause. But after giving it just a little thought, I realized it eliminated all the issues I saw with the Hot-cat. I saw family vehicles more resembling a tank then a car due to there size and weight and all the hardware necessitated by it..

    The QX actually makes a turbine powered car feasible looking no different then current vehicles. High performance Jet engines with super cruise(No after burners required). The reintroduction of SST’s making a flight from Paris to New York in 3 hours.(At economy class fares) On demand water heaters at the sink no bigger then many in line water filters. And so much more. This all works out because of there size. They have a larger surface to energy transfer per watt of energy produced. They work more efficiently.

    As to size, I’ve seen components of similar size manufactured so fast, they have to weigh them for the count because mechanical counters couldn’t handle the task. Even today’s optic counters have trouble tho they do suffice as equally accurate as weighing them. The QX will be cheaper to build verses energy output.

  • Omega Z

    This will all work out if Rossi follows the Intel model. Manufacture QX reactors and license it for consumer products. E-cat inside. Indications are that this is exactly where Rossi wants to go. However, he will need to build a few demonstrator boilers 1st to determine optimal configurations.

  • Omega Z

    “His Robot factory approach” is to manufacture them economically. You can’t spend days building just a few at a time manually. No doubt, while building out this production, there will be starts and stops. Elon Musk is having issues with his GIGA battery plant which was setup in collaboration with”Is it Sony” who currently produce many of the batteries Tesla uses now. Likely the reason Rossi says they Hope for 2018, but could be longer.

  • Omega Z

    I’ll repeat it again here, LENR is not patentable. It’s always been about hardware and as to the secret sauce, It is actually protectable as a trade secret. One may reverse engineer it, but it is not legal to use it in that manor. You would need to create your own secret sauce. Yes, Trade secrets are becoming very protectable just like a patent, but without the time limitations.

    This protection of trade secrets has been evolving and taking place quietly over many years. Very likely being pushed by big concerns like Coke, or the Colonel 11 herbs and spices among many others. It is recognized in more countries then patents.

    Note: Once Rossi puts product to market, he can bring in the best experts in the world to increase his IP around his IP.

  • LarryJ

    To understand the demo and why he can’t show more try and put yourself in his shoes. He has just come through a 5 year period where he completely lost control of his IP to Industrial Heat. He was the Chief Science Officer and they were in charge of all business matters. In July he finally regained everything through the out of court settlement with IH and now with them out of the picture he is ready to move ahead once again. To do that it is now apparent that he needed new investors and that was the primary purpose of the demo as he himself has stated. He made it very clear for weeks before the demo that he would not allow definitive measurements of his reactor but he showed enough to tweak the interest of investors and from his standpoint the demo was a resounding success because it served its purpose. He got the investment he needed to develop his first product. He is off and running.

    Now ask yourself, if you were him why on earth would you want to prove to the whole world beyond a doubt that you have a world changing technology. As the saying goes, he would have to be a few bricks short of a full load to do such a thing. It would immediately bring the focus of the entire world onto him at a very critical period when he has no time to deal with it. What’s worse he doesn’t have a product to satisfy anybody with. It would provide his enemies with time and a rallying point to try and stop him. They could now say, it is proven real, and it is dangerous or whatever. Regulators would come crawling out of the woodwork and even if they couldn’t stop him they could throw all sorts of impediments in his way. And what would he stand to gain by having made that proof. Nothing! He already has the investors. You would gain the satisfaction of telling your friends that you were right all along and you are not a looney tune for every believing in it but he would gain nothing except a massive headache.

    What is has done is far more rational. You can be sure that his investor partners got the proof that you so desire, but they are under NDA and like him they want to get their ducks in a row. Get the product ready to go then prove it to the world and be in a position to say, if you don’t believe us try it. His enemies will have no time to rally. The product will already be on the market in several countries and it will be impossible to stop.

  • sam

    December 19, 2017 at 2:32 AM
    pool type low-temp heating reactor

    District heating is the best market for your products in my opinion

    warm (perhaps hot) regards

    Andrea Rossi
    December 19, 2017 at 3:33 AM
    Thank you for the kink.
    I agree: district heating is a technology that fits perfectly with the E-Cat.
    Warm Regards,

    Frank Acland
    December 18, 2017 at 9:06 AM
    Dear Andrea,

    So if I understand correctly:

    1. You are working now to develop the first E-Cat industrial product?
    2. You are working now to develop the robotic system to make the first E-Cat industrial product?
    3. You will only present the product when both 1 and 2 are accomplished?
    4. After success with 1 and 2 and 3, you plan to expand the production capability for massive production of E-Cats?

    Thank you,

    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi
    December 18, 2017 at 3:28 PM
    Frank Acland:
    1- We are working now to start the industrialization of the E-Cat QX for industrial applications
    2- yes
    3- yes
    4- yes
    Warm Regards,

    Frank Acland
    December 17, 2017 at 3:30 PM
    Dear Andrea,

    Will the first E-Cat commercial product you plan to present be made by hand, or produced on a robotic mass production line?

    Thank you very much,

    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi
    December 17, 2017 at 6:20 PM
    Frank Acland:
    The product will be presented only after we will have initiated the industrial production with the robots.
    Warm Regards,