A Case for Believing Rossi

I have created E-Cat World with the intention of providing useful and interesting information related to Andrea Rossi’s energy catalyzer invention. I’m happy to allow people with divergent viewpoints to discuss and comment on articles and news posted here, and I don’t have any intention of suppressing skeptical comments so long as people are civil and use common courtesy.

That being said, I am fully convinced that Rossi has the technology he claims. To me there is no other way to explain the results he has shown on numerous occasions, and which have been witnessed and reported by people who I consider credible. Apart from anything else, the ability for a self-sustaining reaction to continue to heat water at a constant temperature for hours shows he has discovered something new, unusual, and potentially very useful.

I think Rossi’s problem in convincing the general public is that he has to maintain secrets to stay in business and cannot explain or show everything he knows — and I can see how the secrecy involved leaves him open to accusations from skeptics — and in many ways it is hard to make a defense that will change the skeptical mind. Rossi has decided to bring this technology to the world through the commercial realm, and in doing so is maintaining trade secrets and customer confidentiality — standard operating procedure in business. This can make things frustrating to observers who want to know everything about this technology to be sure of its validity.

At the moment, people who believe in the reality of his claims have to put some trust in the man — and who we choose to trust is a personal matter. Speaking for myself, in addition to the test results that have been published, I think Andrea Rossi has shown is a man of courage and determination with a strong capacity for work, traits which I find admirable. I’m also impressed by the qualified people who are close to him who are also supportive –Stremmenos, Focardi, Essen, Levi, and others seem to be satisfied with everything they have seen so far, and the fact that two Universitis, Bologna and Uppsala, are willing to do research and development on the E-Cat technology says a lot.

Whether the success that Rossi has had in the invention and development phase of this technology can be translated into success in the business realm remains to be seen, but it seems that he in now fixing his considerable powers of attention to commercialization which may be harder than the already difficult path he has taken so far.

I encourage people of all persuasions to join the conversation here, and over time we should have a clearer picture of what is going on — we certainly have a fascinating and potentially world-changing subject of discussion.

  • Mike Cheek

    I think I will concur with you. I have nothing in this game one way or the other, I’m just an intrigued engineer who lives in Houston, TX. I was prepared to write this off until I saw the video of the Oct 28 test. To me, clearly someone (or some entity) had committed to what looked like a real test. The equipment was real. That part at least was not a scam, and is why I’m granting this further consideration.

    As an engineer, if we grant that Rossi has a black box that can generate steam, then we engineers know how to take advantage of that steam. Now, the inferences are that this device could go hotter. If so, and we can generate steam at much higher temperature and pressure than atmosphere, then we have something that’s quite viable.

    One unknown, as has already been suggested by others, is how long can this reaction (or whatever you wish to call it) be sustained?

    If the assertions are true, the investors / corporation must now put money into development and implementation. The equipment modules will have a cost of manufactuing as well. So this is not free energy. But if it can be cheap, clean energy, then this is a most positive development. I will keep following this. do keep us posted, and thanks for your efforts!

    • Kim

      As an engineer you have a moral responsibility
      to capture the interest of your fellow engineers
      in any capacity that you can.

      Its only intuitive that if we can capture energy
      from mass with nuclear fusion, we should be able to capture at a lower frequency rate…. FreeCheap energy Cold fusion if you prefer

      There is no denying that this catalyst has
      bumped up the energy to enormous viable amounts

      The Genie is out of the bottle, and we need to
      let everyone know this.

      Kim

      • Kim

        We are all acting now like the caveman
        that the first fire with flint and kindle

        Every one has run to the corner of the cave
        scared, confused, and looking like a deer
        with light in its eyes.

        Let Humanity know that a new fire is among
        us. Lets not be Children any more.

        Respect
        Kim

    • DARIO

      noi tutti credenti o no del funzionamento dell’E-CAT vorremo che funzionasse davvero e che tutto questo non andrà a finire in qualche angusto cassetto
      E tutta questa storia andrà catalogata come una bufala o truffa!

      • DARIO

        we all believe it or not the operation of E-CAT that really worked and we want that all this will end up in some narrow drawer
        And all this history will listed as a hoax or scam!.

        • Kim

          Dobbiamo solo attendere che tutto il petrolio è andato.

          Un piccolo aiuto sarebbe bello.

          Mi piace salire piuttosto che verso il basso

          Kim

          • DARIO

            finire il petrolio prima di utilizzare altre fonti energetiche sarebbe uno sbaglio, con che cosa faremo la plastica?

  • Francesco CH

    The 28 October test was very important: with the money, given by the customer for the acquisition of the 1MW plant, research at the universities of Bologna and Uppsala can now start

  • Martin6078

    I complete agree with the writer of the article.
    I compare Rossi´s invention with the developement of the first cars. The erly automobiles often called “Horseless Carriages”. Maybe some sceptics calmed it´s a fraud or hoax.Invisible horses like Harry Potter or a thin string pulled by somebody…
    When I have a pot water on the oven and it is boiling. When I switch of the power, the water stops boiling afer a few seconds.When I stop the engine, or the gasoline is gone, my car is rolling out and finally stops. I´m convinced absolutely of Rossi´s E-Cat.Coequal for me to the fact of fusion process is these of matter transforming*; Nickel to Copper.
    Two major inventions together.
    *Also well known in breed reactors and generally in nuclear processes.
    Congratulations, Andrea Rossi and fellows.
    kindly regards to all here

    • Kim

      Could not have said it better myself

      Respect
      Kim

  • How much money did Rossi receive for the power plant he sold to the customer?

    • Sanjeev

      Undisclosed sum. Probably in tens of millions USD, should be enough to cover the production costs and produce a couple more of 1 MW boxes.

      Somewhere I read a figure of 2million , but it does not seem true, its too low.

  • alexvs

    I swore that this is my last post in this forum. Be relieved. For those who still expect something useful of this story I wish good luck regarding expectations and merry Xmas. For those who have concluded that it is a scam, my agreement, good luck and merry Xmas too.

    • Kim

      I have followed this story for 3 plus years.

      You cannot deny the empirical evidence.

      You cannot dismiss the large amounts of excess
      energy.

      Its not perfect, but neither was the first airplane
      flown.

      Nickel is being transmuted to copper.

      Respect
      Kim

      • Gregg M.

        That’s the thing: there’s been no evidence so far that it works. Maybe the E-Cat works, maybe it doesn’t… but the tests so far certainly can’t rule out fakery.

        Until there’s either #1: a public test with independent observers who come to an agreement with Rossi on conditions that would eliminate any possible fakery, or #2: units out in the field that can be tested by independent observers, where potential fakery cannot occur.

        Until we have either, we don’t know if E-Cat works.

        • Robert

          I agree. At some point if these are in widespread usage (note the word…. *if*), there simply will have to be a formal scientific investigation about what is going on. At the very least, one of these units should end up in a lab at Los Alamos and likely other labs (such as the Idaho National Laboratory) which deal with nuclear devices and have competent nuclear physicists and engineers who can try to grasp how the thing works. Presuming that Rossi can build many of these devices so all that is needed is to plug the things in, connect up water and hydrogen, then “watch them do their thing”, I don’t see that is all that complicated.

          The question here is if Rossi is going to be identified as a fraud before that happens, or will there be enough people having “faith” in Rossi so that he will be able to sell a number of these devices before that kind of analysis happens. About the only way Rossi is going to pull that off is by satisfying many customers who at least believe that they are getting “net energy” from these devices in a cost-effective manner.

    • gary

      If I could see a schematic (plant layout) of how the E-Cat was hooked up, I’d have a better grasp with what’s going on. This is a mystery?

      Regards…..

  • Francesco CH
    • Kim

      Thanks for posting this article on CNN.

      We are at a cross roads people.

      This would make all economic problems go away
      and then eventually economics itself.

      American Academics are stubborn and proud.
      and are about to flush the discovery of a new
      age down the toilet… despite themselves and
      humanity.

      The AP news person needs to do the right thing
      and publish despite the pressure.

      I’m tired of the MobsterGangsterBankster mentallity

      Respect
      Kim

      • Kim

        We are all acting now like the caveman
        that the first fire with flint and kindle

        Every one has run to the corner of the cave
        scared, confused, and looking like a deer
        with the light in its eyes.

        Let Humanity know that a new fire is among
        us. Lets not be Children any more.

        Respect
        Kim

    • PersonFromPorlock

      Joe Shea sounds full of himself and a little crank. IIRC, the AP report isn’t due out for another day or so. Let’s wait and see what they do before we begin to grumble about conspiracies.

      • Robert

        The problem with waiting on a news report is that the “news” becomes “olds” (more accurately, history) as the report becomes stale. There is a very short “shelf live” of a news report.

        That said, since there really weren’t too many other reporters who were there, waiting a couple of days to release a comprehensive article certainly is reasonable. Still, it seem odd that he didn’t release a few paragraph quick report first… as is more typical for AP reporters.

  • Az

    http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-696792?ref=feeds%2Flatest

    “Even the fact that the test was performed for an unidentified customer whose representative, a man named Domenico Fioravanti, after the demonstration immediately bought and paid for it (for an undisclosed sum…”)

    • Sanjeev

      This report is not accurate and has many made up ‘facts’ like the first name of engineer was colonel and he drove away with the plant after paying Rossi immediately.
      LOL

      He should have waited for AP report before calling names.

  • Az

    http://pesn.com/2011/10/30/9501941_Rebuttal_to_Krivits_Accusation_that_Andrea_Rossi_is_a_Fraudster/

    “Part of that is because I am privy to some confidential information about an independent validation by a very credible institution that starts with an N.”

    • Kim

      Not the time to be shy

      Time to be bold

      Time is running out on humanity

      (but I do understand your circumstance)

      Much Respect
      Kim

    • Sanjeev

      NASA

      But why is this confidential ? Everyone knows it, I guess.

    • Sanjeev

      NASA had previously verified another LENR device called “Hydrosonic pump”. Its based on water cavity fusion, also called water hammering.
      They had a unit installed and it worked.

      I do not know what happened, but later it was dismissed as a ‘very efficient water heater, which shows some promise.’

  • Gregg M.

    I am agnostic about E-CAT. Maybe this is real, maybe it’s a scam. If it’s real, Rossi certainly could have arranged a public demonstration in such a way as to leave zero doubts as to it’s reality, yet, he has not done so.

    Maybe Rossi does things as he does with the intent of keeping control over his technology. This is futile, for if it is real, and once units are out in the field, outside of his direct control, it’s certain it will be reverse-engineered, in quick order. Industry and/or governments will be able to make their own with no payment to Rossi if they so choose…. therefore, the only real protection he really has are patents and public recognition.

    Still, it may be real. He wouldn’t be the first inventor to do things in a quirky way. I just wish he would clear the air in an undisputed way…. though of course, if it is a scam, clearing the air is the last thing he’d want. We’ll know in due course.

    • Björn

      Maybe it’s real maybe it’s not.
      When we open the box we know what we’ve got.

      The cat may be spinning, the cat may be dead.
      It can’t be both, like Schroedinger said.

    • Sanjeev

      IMO, patents are not a protection in this case. There is a general rule in patenting that one cannot patent a ‘naturally occurring phenomena’. So Rossi can only patent the device, not the principal.

      All a reverse engineering entity has to do is to open the box and find the contents, and go ahead with slight changes (improvements may be) and make another design.

      Rossi probably knows this, so he is not waiting for patent (actually he got one for Italy region only). He went ahead with production and sale, *with* contracts to enforce secrecy.

      The only way to make money on this is via licensing, that too for a few years time. Once the recipe is out, no one will buy costly licenses.

  • Gregg M.

    Assuming that E-CAT is real, the naming of the underlying tech needs to change. Right now (I think that) “LENR” (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions) is the term I see most associated with this. Problem is, anything with the world “nuclear” in it faces the irrational reaction of the public at large to slam it down. Few members of the public are going to want anything “nuclear” in their home, and likely many laws and regulations prevent it.

    What’s needed is either another acronym, or a replacement for that “N” in LENR. Maybe “Low Energy Fusion”? I’m sure better minds than mine can come up with something that won’t turn the public off, once E-CAT is proven and becomes well known.

    • Hampus

      Transmutation engine.

    • Warthog

      More accurate:

      LANR

      Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions

  • So! Patent law, not permitting patenting of the “impossible”, the cold fusion community including Rossi, has the task of proving that cold fusion is not impossible. BUT, when one publishes his “secret”, it then falls into the public domain. Catch 22.

    So we see Mr. Rossi pirouetting, impressively to my eye, in this legal ballet addressing cosmic uncertainties. This peculiar circular puzzle of, “show but don’t tell”, only has to be navigated by guys like Rossi. Copernicus and Galileo, having no industrial intentions, needed, as far as I know, no such legal protection. So the delay in this sharp turn in the evolution of our planet results from this need for monopoly.

    A prominent patent lawyer tells me that there is a provision for this in the law. In such cases, a candidate test protocol must be submitted to the executive board of the patent office and, like the patent process itself, the first the second versions of the test regimen will be rejected followed in due course by an acceptable method. Rossi passes the test and the flood gates of related new technologies open.

    BUT, these technologies employ very modest devices. A motor scooter requires more complex hardware. For these reasons, we may to be watching the debut of an open source technology followed by the solid state version pointed at by the original Pons/Fleischman related, cold fusion company ENECO corporation at University of UTAH.

    • Gregg M.

      I would tend to doubt that there would be any inherent problem patenting the E-CAT, beyond the usual barriers with patenting any invention. Doing so would give him a measure of protection. It in no way would fall into the public domain once he does so.

      If by “public domain” you mean that anyone could make an E-CAT, well, that’d be the case, with or without patents. With patents at least, there would be a legal barrier. Not patenting it means nothing preventing someone from making an E-CAT and then patenting it themselves, thus preventing Rossi from profiting from his own invention.

      If the E-CAT does what Rossi claims, and once units are sold, it’s going to be reverse-engineered, guaranteed… so why wouldn’t he want to protect his rights? Patents will do that.

    • al

      What? I thought his patents were rejected because they didn’t show enough detail of the design?

  • s

    The Oct 28 test seemed to clearly show excess energy for the limited run time. The Oct 6 test seemed to show excess energy for the limited run time. The Ecat produces large amounts of excess energy at a COP of ~6 to 1 or better for limited amounts of time unless the data we have been given is false. I feel the data we were given is accurate. The conversation needs to move past whether the Ecat produces excess energy for a limited time, as it seems to be decisively proven that it does.

    The question now is whether the Ecat, at the current state of development, can produce stable, steady state excess energy at a COP of 6 or greater for 6 consecutive months. From the data we have been shown so far, it is doubtful that the Ecat can meet this goal. All of the Ecat tests, except one, have been stopped after a frustratingly brief period of excess energy production. And the full data set for the 18 hr test was never released. My feeling is that if a demonstration at 1 MW with a constant COP of 6 or better for one or two days were attemped, at some point the reaction might go unstable, reactors would melt, and an emergency shutdown would happen. This would cause great alarm to the attendees at the demonstration and make some of them brand this as an unstable energy source. By limiting the demonstration time, excess energy is shown without showing what happens if the reaction becomes unstable.

    At some point in the future, a 1MW Ecat plant will be able to run at 1MW steady state for 6 months at a COP of 6 to 1 or greater if the data we have been given is accurate. I don’t think the technology is at that point right now.

    • Kim

      I Agree

      This new fire needs alot of R&D

      What we need right now is for the
      main stream media to quit playing
      the mobster,gangster,Bankster Role…

      You can not deny the amount of excess
      energy that is present. Yes lots of
      wholesome development without all the
      clandestine behavior would go a long ways
      right now.

      For the Children of the next generation as a
      gift of a new Intent and Age.

      Respect
      Kim

      • Johannes Hagel

        Let us think and develop a strategy of how to prevent this new fire from being supressed. Any ideas?

    • Johannes Hagel

      If the E-Cat in its present version becomes unstable after a few hours in self sustain mode, why not using a tandem of two E-Cats running in alternate modus? Five hours for the first one than the second takes over a.s.o.? I cannot imagine that the runaway is due to change in the fuel after that short time period, so it can only be due to temperature.

      • Kim

        I would like to see just 1 of the smaller units running on a 24 hour video cam.

        for six months or until it fails.

        This would be an excellent way to hold
        the attention of Physicists and Scientist
        the world over.

        Kim

      • s

        Those are both good suggestions. Hopefully, Rossi will do more demonstrations. If he does not do more demonstrations and customers continue to buy Ecats, then all is well.

  • Johannes Hagel

    Thank you Frank for this collection of arguments in favor of Rossi and the E-Cat technology. Assuming that the data we got from Oct. 6-th and Oct. 28-th are true and knowing that real experts arround Rossi, like Focardi, Levi and Stemmenos are in favor of the thing, I strongly tend to believe what we have been told. At the same time I can easily understand reservation from skeptical persons under the present situation. Of course there is a lot of psychology contained in our attitudes to believe or not like wishful thinking which is surely a strong factor. For myself I decided to believe what we have been told and so I do accept strong disappointment if it really turns out worse. However, I think it will not happen.
    More important is to observe the further development in order to detect attempts of supression of the concept by persons interested in doing so! The internet should be a strong means for following this path like it is a wonderful weapon against certain political systems. Let us follow the thing as closely as possible!

    • Kim

      Yes I believe that the internet is the
      primary reason why the powers that be
      have even let this thing go this far.

      25 years ago this would have been taken
      care of…

      Very, Very nice insite

      Respect
      Kim

  • Francesco CH

    NEWS: ROSSI IS BUILDING ANOTHER 1MW PLANT FOR ANOTHER CUSTOMER

    Luke Mortensen
    October 30th, 2011 at 12:54 PM
    Dear Andrea,
    1. Is the 1MW container gone?
    2. Have you started building another 1MW in another container?
    3. Any improvements you want in version 2?
    4. Will the buyer of the next 1MW container be the same customer or a different customer?

    Andrea Rossi
    October 30th, 2011 at 2:15 PM
    Dear Luke Mortensen:
    1- yes
    2- yes
    3- yes. gaskets
    4- different

  • Sanjeev

    I guess that the secret recipe will come out even before E-Cats reach the market. The results of Dr. George Miley’s replication of James Patterson CF cell will show the way. (As released on 3rd Oct)

    This cell used tiny beads coated with Ni and Pd over some resin.
    http://ecatsite.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/ceti_bead.jpg

    Pd has an unusual property that it absorbs a huge amount of H2, so much so that the H densities become large enough for some fusion like process. The beads were made to amplify Pd’s surface area.

    Patterson also claimed COPs similar to Rossi’s.

    • Sanjeev

      Another guess is on the lines of Brian Ahern, who also got excess power using Zr66%-Ni21%-Cu13% nanopowder in June.

      http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/06/brian-ahern-getting-8-watts-in-low.html

      I’m sure there are other success stories and other recipes. Its amazing that no one called these scientists scammers or fraud. Rossi is getting the abuse only because he dared to make a product out of it and sell it.

      • George

        Sanjeev, come on really? Do you not see the difference? You can read how Ahern and others did their tests. There are no “trade secrets”. I am a supporter of Rossi and hope he is completely above board. But let’s not be stupid. There is a big difference between a scientist following standard scientific principles and an inventor that has a black box and will not let you see what is inside. And you know what he doesn’t have to. He is not a scientist, he is an inventor and he is doing what he does for a different reason. If Rossi’s device works as he advertises he will be a very rich man and well he should be. He will also go down in history as one of the greatest inventors of all time, like Edison, Ford and Einstein. Some are scientist’s some inventors and some a little of both.

    • The response of the mainstream media has been very odd indeed. They have complained that it was not they who were ignoring the story but that Rossi had shut them out from his demonstrations.

      So AP gets more than just access but also
      exclusive status an they are as big as mainstream can be. Yet it has been 3 days and no story.

      The mystery only deepens.

  • G_Zingh

    I appreciate a website that is supportive of this new technology. In all honesty if I had the need and one was for sale today I would not buy an e-cat, but I would sure like my neighbor to buy one so could see it work. I am just a cautious person I guess.

    What this technology can do is give hope to humanity for the future and that is something real. I have been on other sites covering the e-cat story and the anti-Rossi bias is so thick you cut it only with sarcasm.

  • londo

    I looked at the stoichiometry of Rossis claim about the H2 and Ni consumption to run the plant for 180 days at full power (1MW). 10kg Ni and 18kg H2. If there’s any nuclear reaction going on then we have to have an integer relation between consumption of H2 and Ni. Actually, one gets quite close assuming it’s D2 and Ni-61 involved. Not quite there but close. However, the energies don’t work out and I don’t know if the process D + 61Ni -> 63Cu is at all possible. Based on stoichiometry and the energy produced given consumption I got 14MeV per reaction but the masses from nuclide charts would like to have this energy much higher (unless I messed up the numbers).
    Maybe somebody else can check it out.

  • Jon

    Remember: All you have is his and his collegues word. There is absolutely nothing else.

    There is no reason to not publish the work. The IP is yours after applying for a patent, even if the process of application takes years.

    An invention like this would solve todays energy problems, along with climate change and wars for oil. It would also remove the drain of more than 2000 USD per year per capital form western economys. The inventor would get next years nobel price, along with enough consulting contacts to earn something in the 8 digit dollar range.

    That said, why not releasing a working blueprint. Let people see it, test it, and confirm it. The alleged ‘trade secret’ is bogous for the above reasons. Remember that the first thing the ‘american customer’ will do is disassembling the devices to build his own.

  • daniel maris

    What do we know about the independent consultant Domenico Fioravanti? Anything at all? He is a rather important figure now.

    • Francesco CH

      COLONEL-ENGINEER Domenico Fioravanti: he is is a member of the military

    • Robert

      I have no idea how common this name is in Italy, but is it remotely possible it is this man?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domenico_Fioravanti

      Or is it possible this is just a pseudonym being used in a generic manner or to throw off anybody trying to find details about the customer?

      • Zed

        Pretty common name in italy.

  • Francesco CH

    TG2 (State-owned news programme, very important in Italy) reports on the E-Cat during today’s national edition (in Italian, of course):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG-lhoE6pZk

  • MnMark

    I am not one of those who is a hard skeptic who can’t be convinced. I am one of those optimistic types who have been telling people about this Rossi device since I heard about it last spring and eagerly awaiting what we had been told would be the big proof this month. The inability or unwillingness of Rossi to set up a demonstration that will firmly convince all but the most conspiracy-prone of skeptics – something which should not be that hard to do – is turning me into a skeptic.

    It’s fine if he wants to commercialize the product. But wouldn’t the best possible advertisement for his product be a demonstration that puts to bed all doubts? How does it help him sell his product to continue to do these half-baked, shoddy demonstrations that do not put to rest the doubts?

    I am no scientist but the fact that the demonstrations are so sloppily made that scientists can continue to dispute how much water turned to steam, how dry the steam was, etc, etc etc…I don’t understand the excuse for this. Surely there are some standard, widely-accepted testing procedures for demonstrating the heat output of a device conclusively. Rossi has had a half-dozen demonstrations since last year and to my understanding he has never yet had one with adequate instrumentation and control of variables so that there was proof for all but the hardest-core doubters (the kind that think the moon landing was faked and 9/11 was done by Bush – you can never convince that kind of person).

    I for one will no longer get my hopes up about this technology until something definitive comes along. I waited months for that, which was supposed to happen on Friday, and it did not.

    • Kim

      Very Simple Test

      Hook a steam generator up to it and see
      how much electricity is generated. (let run indefinetely)

      Input = x Output = x

      Done.

      Respect
      Kim

      • zedshort

        Converting heat to electricity proves nothing. The only thing needed is to show substantially more energy out that put in and that was done. All the quibbling about the details of the test are just noise that is swamped by a rather high COP.

    • Why is it important to have a scientific discovery be validated to every lay person on the globe? He has agreements with two universities to further test the E-cat. That is where validation takes place. Not on the pages of a web site. Do you contact Apple’s research and development department to see the progress on their newest break through? How about Pfizer, are you skeptical about the advancement of cancer related drug breakthroughs because they do not post their findings on some website. Mr. Rossi is trying to sell a product. It seems as if he has found a buyer. He has stated time and time again, the market will be the judge of his product. Not skeptics! What’s the difference if hundreds of millions of people don’t believe? All that it takes is one person to believe. It only took one man to believe that there was a westward route to the Indies to discover the

      • Kim

        I agree 100 per cent.

        I will just be patient.

        I stand corrected.

        Respect
        Kim

    • Robert

      Does it matter how these demonstrations are being done? Apparently this previous test of a couple days ago needed to be done to the satisfaction of a single customer…. and that didn’t necessarily require an ironclad scientific proof.

      The real “proof” will be seeing the reactors “on the power grid”. Either they work, or Rossi is going to be spending some more time in prison for fraud. Those who will be buying these reactors will know soon enough for themselves that these are legitimate or a joke.

      The scientific “proof” may come later. If enough customers are buying these things, certainly the scientific investigation will happen, but then we get the devices to play with in the meantime.

      • Hello, i just discovered a device which can make money appear out from air! I sell it to you for $20M. Do you need my paypal? I appreciate that you don’t ask for proof, makes things a lot easier!

        • Robert

          If you can genuinely make “money appear out of air”, show it works, and my neighbors are abandoning their homes in exchange for mansions…. yeah, I’d start to wonder if your device is working or not.

          I’m not saying I would be one of the first people to invest in your crazy device, but if it is working and working consistently, I’d be interested. Or not because in the case of something “manufacturing money” is being made by somebody who lacks an understanding of economic theory, but that is irrelevant in this particular situation. Energy production is not a zero sum game so the analogy doesn’t really work out all that well.

          I don’t need to understand the theory of how it works, but I do need to see it in action and see that the results are consistent.

          To give another analogy, few people have a deep understanding of compiler theory, assembly languages, or for that matter even understanding Boolean Logic and how logic gates can be combined to make an electronic circuit with enough complexity to perform mathematical operations on large numbers. None the less, many of these kind of people know how to post stupid things in forums using those same devices without understanding the deep theories on how the thing works.

        • Dan

          So you invented the United States Federal Reserve?

    • Mike Cheek

      Well it is frustrating that these tests always seem to be incomplete. The latest one, there are these trivial errors, like they get before and after H2 weight mixed up. then they say it was 1.7 grams of H2, not 1.7 kg of H2 as first published. then they say the pumps were rated at 350 kg/hr, and not 700 kg/hr. And yet the report states 675 kg/hr. Sigh. I would have hoped for a more professional format. For the moment, I will wait. the truth will out, one way or another. If this is really a breakthrough, this will come out.

    • kurt

      I totally agree with your sentiment. I have been optimistically watching this closely for quite a while and Friday was no more convincing than any of the other tests.

      There are alot of people and technologies that one can “believe in”, but why have blind faith in this technology over any of a large number of other ones.

      I will continue to hope that this all turns out to be real, but I guess I will wait until it’s reported on CNN or something before I start to get my hopes up again.

      It’s fine for people to write Friday off as a demo to satify a particular customer, but if I were Rossi, I would be thinking about making the technology spread as fast as possible and focus on future customers. The way to do that is to run a completely verifiable test.

      It is disappointing that this has not happened.

    • Paul

      It doesn’t really matter what Rossi does. Skeptics attack his character as much as his test results. Comprehensive testing needs to be done by a third party. If this is done, as it’s supposed to be, by university labs over the next two years (and their hopefuly postive results are reproducible by other labs) that should be enough for just about anybody.

  • Billy

    How do you answer the argument that the steam could be wet and therefore the e-cat could have a much lower energy yield than claimed?

    • Kim

      On Oct 6th they test using heat transfer
      methods.

      The results again showing excess heat
      Look it up.

      Respect
      Kim

    • Mike Cheek

      It was stated in the report that this was 95% steam. Temps went from 20 C to 100 C approximately. This is production of saturated steam. The heat transfer calcs were just based on conversion from water at 100 C to steam at 100 C. doesn’t matter if it’s wet or not. The latent heat was what was included. IF report is accuragte, then your concern about wet steam does not affect CLAIMS. that part at least, in my judgment, is OK. again, I am granting for the sake of argument that the assertions are true.

  • Kim

    I sent an email to Associated Press

    [email protected]

    Asking Where is the News Report by
    Peter Svensson?

    Please do the same.

    Its not right, were being controlled by
    the mainstream media in the USA.

    Respect
    Kim

    • Robert

      Perhaps the article was spiked? Perhaps he got “busy” with some other article? Perhaps there is a much larger article coming out about the concept, but the AP editors have decided to “verify the facts” before publication?

      The world does not revolve around the e-Cat device, and there are plenty of skeptics that this is even real.

      A much better place to complain would be at a local newsroom, or perhaps you could write a letter to the editor of that local newspaper describing this event. There are many other options, most of which I think are much more effective than trying to pester some AP editors about why they haven’t published an article that may not even be written… or that you certainly have no clue why it wasn’t written.

      • Kim

        I stand corrected

        Respect
        Kim

      • dayton

        For news to get out you must go to the alternative media. Bombard the drudgereport.
        com they have a input box for the news of
        interest, watch out though, they refresh the
        page very often.
        Mr. Rossi wrote that if he met an untimely
        demise his secrets would be released. Mr.
        Rossi’s data would be an internet virus going across the world in minuets. Then the Chinese could build something bigger than the Iphone,Ipad,Icloud,Ipod combined.

    • Who cares about the news report, be it from AP or any other site “reporting”? This is all hear-say and just repeating what one single man claims, without independent verification. Or do you think that the AP article would reveal something we don’t already know? (Eg. proof that in the last test the generator was indeed not supplying power..etc..)
      You can go to 20 websites and read 20 articles from news agencies – and you will still be all at the beginning with important questions not answered.
      All what remains is people having the choice to be either “skeptical” or “to believe” (out of optimism) – except that you do not do science using beliefs and wishful thinking, you look at data and verify results.

    • jay

      There is no AP report because there is nothing to report. A real news agency would be embarrassed by reporting a test, by secret engineers, from a secret company, that paid Rossi with a secret check, that whisked the device off to a secret location. A device no real scientist is allowed to examine, take apart, or replicate. Not only that, this black box produced 470KW while connected to a running 500KW diesel generator. Do you really think the AP would stupid enough to run such an obvious scam story and help make this scam artist more money? Because right now, gullible, hopeful, private investors are sending him money on the side, hoping to get in on this early. Thats how Rossi is making money. Possibly millions if he can drag this on long enough and keep hyping it on the internet, because the real media wont touch this with a 20 foot pole.

    • George

      Kim, I believe that Peter is not publishing at Rossi’s request not APs. Just FYI.

  • Ron

    As I understand patent law, one can’t patent basic physics but only how one goes about using the physics in their invention. The problem is that this is a new technology (assuming it is for real) and the way that Rossi’s invention solves uses this physics is in all liklihood not the final siolution but a first step with many more to come with perhaps his method quickly being rendere4d obsolete.

    Hence I can see the wisdom of why it might be better to go the trade secret route and only use the patent as secondary means of protecting his IP. For if this is for real I am sure that sooner or later (and probably sooner) organizations with huge research budgets will find better ways of doing this that that in all likihood won’t be covered by the patent. Hence getting to market first, making their mmoney while they still can, all the while keeping it a trade secret makes sense to me… before the big boys move in and corner the market.

    And proving itto the world will just majbe the big boys jump into the game that much faster, so I would imagine the best he can hope for is buy a year or two head start… that is assuming this is for real.

  • >>
    I think Rossi’s problem in convincing the general public is that he has to maintain secrets to stay in business
    >>

    Do you seriously think it would be difficult for an engineer to build a simple test set-up using *one* single e-cat device – powering a random appliance, say, a christmas tree, with ONE single device..and have this test on display for the world to see, running a few days?

    Rossi never cared about “convincing” anyone..ask yourself why! Instead, he had to connect 100 of the devices to build a complex “1MW reactor” in a container – but still cannot even show proof of concept to eliminate all doubts.
    A 10 year old in a school science project would be able to demonstrate that this works – Rossi is incredible bad at PR…or he intentionally “fails” to provide such simple proof.

    • George

      hmmm… didn’t know Christmas tress ran on steam or hot water?

  • Alex

    Before most people buy the home device. They are going to want proof that an E-Cat will operate for 6 months as claimed, at 6/1 output. We will need to know what happens if you let it continue past 6 months. Does corrosion happen when the Copper constraint hits a certain point. Does the power output go strait to zero at 6 months, or is that when you call a Rossi-Rep to replace within a grace period. I’m sure there will be many questions, that need to be answered, whether publicly proven or not. Rossi also needs be careful not to sell too many that his “qualified” workforce can keep up the pace 6 months after purchase dates. He will have to start small, in order to establish a support infrastructure. My guess, it will be good if you live in New Hampshire where he has his American Headquarters.

    • Alex

      Fastest way I can think of would be to sell a certification course. And limit the amount of licensed reps that can hold that responsibility within a county or region. Pick me. Pick me.

    • Most people, maybe. I want one, and I want it NOW! I’ll set up some measurement devices, and present the whole thing as a webcam on the net. People can watch how long it runs while it heats my home.

  • arian

    TG2 (State-owned news programme, very important in Italy) reports on the E-Cat during today’s national edition (in Italian, of course):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG-lhoE6pZk

  • Luca Salvarani

    1- I think this is a VERY IMPORTANT NEWS: Rossi has already sold another 1 MW plant, to another different customer (maybe present at the test)!!! He has just whitten this on JONP…
    2- Regarding ing. Domenico Fioravanti: Lewan said that whoever Fiorvanati is, he is every inch an engineer. He knows a terrific amount about boilers, steam quality, thermodynamics and so on. He freely talked about the technical issues.
    Also Daniele Passerini, who attended the test, has testified on his blog that other experts representing Italian energy and defense corporations attending the test, such as Ansaldo Energia and Oto Melara (Finmeccanica Group).. spoke to Fioravanti asking technical details and it seems they knew him very well and absolutely trust him! (This is for those who has whitten Fioravanti is an actor, or wasn’t qualified enought to run the test… I don’t consider at all the objections about his nationality… as I already written we have much more that pizza spaghetti and mandolino… ok to be skeptical, but pay respect please!)

  • arian

    NASA: LENR powered aircraft so large that other aircraft can land on them in future.

    http://www.slashgear.com/nuclear-powered-aircraft-so-large-other-aircraft-can-land-on-them-in-our-future-25190555/

  • alexvs

    A friend of mine has told to me that his brother in law, whose father lives in Bologna has spoken yesterday with a Rossi’s near friend whom Rossi in person said that he has sold 7 (seven) 1 Mw plants by which the COP would be risen 8,53.

    • Johannes Hagel

      I like this typical italian relation between world changing processes and family / friend links. Its very human as well as very sympathic!

      • alexvs

        Please, take it easy. it was a joke for relaxing.

        • Kelley Trezise

          So you are a hoaxer and we should all take notice that all of your posts are worth nothing.

  • PersonFromPorlock

    Keep in mind that not only Rossi but also Focardi and Stremmenos (both physicists) have their reputations on the line. E-cat is either a fraud, a mistake, a practical joke or the real thing, and it beggars the imagination that all three men would think the personal consequences worth it if it was anything but the real thing. E-cat either obviously works or obviously doesn’t work, so there’s no escaping those consequences.

    I suppose there’s an outside chance that Rossi has successfully misled his confederates, but what sort of innocents would they have to be, for that to be true?

  • mrG

    It is my guess that the energy output is real, but that Rossi himself does not have any idea why it works, he only discovered the process empirically; electricity was discovered while seeking St Elmo’s Fire! Thus he isn’t interested in a Nobel Prize in Physics because he’s intimidated by physicists, and he just wants to make money because, as said above, the real physicists will very likely figure out how it works, replicate it, improve it, and he will go the route of Marconi and Tesla.

    Bucky Fuller discovered that patents do not protect you, there are patent lawyers whose full-time occupation is finding loopholes in patents; all that a patent really does is to protect humanity, it ensures that the knowledge of the invention cannot be suppressed, that it becomes public knowledge. Perhaps Rossi hasn’t realized this, or perhaps he does and that is why he so fears disclosure.

    • Dr. Guenter Krieg

      I am convinced, that Mr. Rossi perfectly knows the principles behind ECAT and he has already the Italian patent for his invention. What I am thinking about it, is laid down in a letter to my son Michael, which is copied to you:

      Hallo ECAT Begeisterte

      Nicht alle möchten sich mit einer Blackbox abspeisen lassen; deswegen muss man sich Gedanken machen, was in der Andrea Rossi Blackbox überhaupt geschehen kann. Sie erinnert mich an meine Studienjahre zwischen 1956 und 1965: damals waren MASER und LASER das Thema. Diese Abkürzungen besagen: Microwave Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation resp. Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation; dementsprechend fiele die Blackbox unter den Begriff: Gamma Ray Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. Soviel zum betrachteten Wellenlängenbereich. Was für den damaligen Rubin Laser der Resonator gewesen ist, entspräche beim “GRASER” (= obige Blackbox) dessen Reaktionsraum. Also muss dieser Reaktionsraum, der soweit wir wissen, mit Feinstaubnickel in gepresster Pulverform gefüllt ist in Analogie zum Rubinkristall atomar geordnet werden, damit in diesem Reaktionsraum sich überhaupt quantenmechanische Wellen von Gammastrahlen wie in einem Beugungsgitter ausbilden und überlagern können. Wodurch erreicht man diese einheitliche Ausrichtung? Da es sich bei Nickel um ein ferromagnetisches Material handelt, erreicht man die einheitliche Ausrichtung durch ein starkes Magnetfeld, das man mit einer Spule um den Reaktionsraum erzeugen kann. Dadurch entsteht ein Quasi-Nickelkristallgitter. In dieses Quasigitter wird unter hohem Druck der Reaktionspartner der LENR-Reaktion, nämlich gasförmiger Wasserstoff eingelagert. Als Katalysator dieser Reaktion würde ich noch etwas feinst verteilten Kupferstaub mit einblasen, der ja gewissermaßen, die andere Seite der gewünschten Kernreaktion darstellt.

      Zur Zündung dieser LENR-Reaktion muss man von aussen mittels LASER eine scharf auf die Resonnatorlänge abgestimmte monochromatische Lichtwelle hineinschicken, damit eine stehende Welle entsteht, Deren Wellenlänge muss auch noch ein exaktes Vielfaches der erwarteten Wellenlänge der Gammastrahlen sein.
      Wie durchtunnelt man nun die Coulomb-Barriere um den Nickelkern herum? Die quantenmechanische Überlagerung der Wellenfunktionen ausgehend von allen Wellenzentren des Quasi-Nickelkristalls erreicht durch die Vielfachüberlagerung der Amplituden an wenigen Orten eine Amplitude und damit Energie, die zur monoatomaren Zündung des Fusionsprozesses ausreicht. Dadurch entsteht ein Gammaquant, das seinerseits wieder durch stimulierte Strahlungsemission weiterwirkt und wir erreichen so eine Lawine solcher LENR Prozesse. Wesentlich ist dabei, dass sich die Wellenlänge der reflektierten Gammastrahlen nicht ändert, dass es sich also meistens um elastische Stöße mit dem Quasikristallgitter handelt. Das erinnert mich sehr an den Mößbauereffekt

      Geht dieser Reaktor ungebremst durch?

      Die Kerngammastrahlung ist extrem monohromatisch und wird durch minimale Längenänderungen des Reaktionsraumes sofort verstimmt.
      Wenn sich also das Reaktionsgefäß durch die Wärmeentwicklung des LENR Prozesses ausdehnt und durch die Wärmeabfuhr des verdampften Kühlwassers wieder zusammenzieht, pendelt seine Länge fortwährend um die optimale Resonanzlänge herum.
      Wenn man die Ausbildung des Quasikristalls dadurch stört, dass man an die Spule eine hochfrequente Wechselspannung anlegt, müsste man die LENR-Reaktion ebenfalls abbremsen können, bevor der Nickelstaub zu einem Klumpen verschmilzt.

      Skalierbarkeit des Reaktionsgefäßes:

      Wegen der oben dargestellten Längen und deren Bezug zum Zünd-Laserstrahl und zur Kerngammastrahlung der LENR ist die Abstimmung eine äußerst heikle Angelegenheit. Deswegen verstehe ich auch, warum der 1 MW Reaktor aus vielen kleinen, bereits erprobten Reaktoren aufgebaut worden ist.

      Wie gesagt, was ich mir da ausgedacht habe, ist reine Spekulation, allerdings physikalisch begründete. Außerdem habe ich wegen der allgemeinen Verständlichkeit keine einzige mathematische Formel verwendet. Es soll ja eine Erklärung sein und keine Verfinsterung!

      Meine Stellung zu Andrea Rossi:

      1) Ich beglückwünsche ihn aufrichtig zu seiner Erfindung.
      2) Ich glaube an deren wissenschaftlichen Wert. Begründung: siehe meine obige Erklärung.
      3) Ich bin begeistert, aber leider schon zu alt. (75)

      4) Als Europäer wünsche ich ihm kommerziellen Erfolg.

      Mir persönlich wünsche ich nur noch, dass man in Deutschland bald einen 10 KW Rossi-Ofen zu erschwinglichem Preis mit TÜV-Plakette kaufen kann.

      Alles Gute Andrea Rossi!
      Dr. Günter Krieg

  • AMTR

    I am a pessimist by nature. I simply pray this is not a scam or a delusion. Mr. Rossi will have helped solve an issue that will change the lives of the poor, help keep people warm, provide a energy system that will allow the world to move to a hydrogen economy because it will be cheap enough to make hydrogen. If this is a scam, I wish Mr. Rossi enjoys his stay in Hell! If it is true, he deserves the Noble Prize.

    If Mr. Rossi is faking the results, he would be subject to such ridicule and scorn that no sane person would put themselves in this position. Eventually this will go mainstream and either Mr. Rossi will be hailed as a genius or humiliated.

    The real issue, if Rossi’s ECAT works) is how to get it to the poor first, not the rich who will not be so rich after ECAT units become ubiquitous.

    Why the lack of press coverage, now? Think about it! If true, the power the Middle East is broken; the established power structure running countries and the world changes; political alliances will change. Sort of like reporting the Earth is Cooling, not going to go well for a lot of people. Also, the press had jumped into the Cold Fusion announcement years back and it all collapsed. I don’t think, the news agencies want to look like fools again on this issue. They are already backtracking on Climate Change(global warming.

    • George

      Really want to get it to the poor? Then get it to the rich and the profit will pay for it for the poor. Ummm, that’s the way the world really works. Sorry to upset you socialist out there, but you see poor people don’t really create anything, that’s why they are poor. If they created something they would be rich. I know that is really mean and insensitive of me, but I don’t really care.

  • To George

    Frankly, it really doesn’t matter what anyone thinks. The product is out on the market.

    Get used to it.

    • George

      Really, where? Point to it? Show it to me? Sorry but as of right now you can’t! As I said Mr Anonymous, I believe in LENR/Cold Fusion and hope Rossi is real, but until there is a third party to verify it I am skeptical. Hopeful, but skeptical.

  • Yong

    I am still confused with what I am reading on the websites. Does anyone know whether a technical specification of the e-Cat device was provided to the customer? How could a customer buy a device which does not have specification? I believe there must be some kind of technical documents coming along with the device. Anyone knows?

  • Mark Dansie

    I think the Forbes coverage says it all

    “until a verifiably objective analysis is conducted by an independent third party that confirms the results match the claims there’s no real news, which is utterly disappointing.”

  • Wes

    I recall Focardi referring to the e-cat technology as something like “the greatest discovery in history.” If true, why isn’t Focardi (and Piantelli) demanding the national recognition they deserve? While Rossi does his public show, I find Focardi’s low key behavior odd. Further, the work was carried on while Focardi was employed at the University of Bologna! The greatest discovery in all of history and no one is clamoring for credit? Very odd indeed!