Rossi on Hydro Fusion Episode: 'Too Much is Too Much'

Andrea Rossi just posted a rather lengthy post (for him) in response to a comment about the Swedish company Hydro Fusion’s testing of the Hot Cat about which they reported that tests did not show any excess heat coming from the device.

Rossi makes a number of points in his post about this episode. Here are some of  the main ones.

  • The Swedish tester was at Rossi’s factory for only four hours, and left before the hot cat reached ‘the right power’.
  • The instruments the tester used gave faulty readings. A test showed that their instrument incorrectly measured a 60 W light bulb as consuming 200 W. Rossi said his team’s instrument measured the light bulb correctly.
  • The Swedish company were seeking to invest money in Leonardo Corp. by buying shares, but Rossi said there was nothing close to an agreement between the two parties.
  • The dealings between the two parties were under NDA; nevertheless Hydro Fusion issued a press release about the issue.
  • Rossi was asked after a few days to ‘explain particulars regarding the charge’ but he ignored the message.
  • Tests on the Hot Cat are still underway, and in November a final report will be published about the version of the hot cat which will be decided on for industrialization.

He concludes by saying, “In this period, while we are working in our factories across the Atlantic Ocean 16 hours per day and during which thanks to our technlogy we are making jobs, investments and products that will give something useful to the world, we have to stand a Niagara falls of chatters and stupidities, but we have not time to answer. This is why I let the chatters go free around… but too much is too much.”

It will be interesting to see if there is any response to Rossi’s account by Hydro Fusion.

 

  • hempenearth

    Its fantasic to hear that an industrial hot cat is not far away. All commercial building owners should be looking at this

    • LCD

      Lenr is real, lenr + may be real, but you can’t hang you’re hat on rossi says. Even rossi will admit that.

      • hempenearth

        No hanging hats, but we can engage engineers to go and investigate and report back. Domestic users will probably have to wait some years but commercial users will only have to wait months

        • Peter_Roe

          I think its the ‘old’ low temperature e-cat that is supposed to be (nearly?) available for industrial customers, not the ‘hot cat’. At the moment that appears to be a successful experimental prototype and little more.

          • Ivan_Cev

            The low temp ecats are said to be ready!, but the problem is that no customer qualifies for the sale.
            I read some where that one module was about to be delivered and the owner could do all the measurements he wants.
            Could some one report about this?

          • Ged

            People qualify for sale, it’s just that it’s a complex machine (100 individual parts or more, not easy to build and QC). There is one complete and to be delivered in a month to an Italian company who will be able to do whatever they want with it. 12 more are to be made.

            That’s the current information as it stands.

          • Ivan_Cev

            This is the smoking gun, if the referenced module is not delivered, and we do not hear any more about this, then there is no ecat and every thing is just a fantasy, in the other hand if a real device is delivered and is working there is no more room for scepticism.
            Lets keep monitoring this.
            how long is reasonable to wait for news about this module?

          • LCD

            Ivan for sure (99% confidence) though DGT has a working LENR+ reactor (it reportedly still has long term control issues as of 3 months ago) so its not all fantasy.

  • depromme

    Let’s forget the HOT-CAT for a moment. Where is the HEATING-CAT for home? Shouldn’t it be released now?

  • Miles

    “in November a final report will be published about the version of the hot cat which will be decided on for industrialization”.

    Not too long now!! I’m going to connect the e-Cat to my BBQ. Will there be any publication on LENR in any specific scientific journal/magazine?

  • Italo R.

    I have read about several reliable people who have witnessed the work and tests made ​​by Rossi on his reactors, and all of them have said that the reactor worked.
    In example, one of them is the engineer whose nickname is “Cures” that writes in cobraf.com. He worked with Rossi and is still in contact with him.
    So I do not trust to anything that skeptics say, because they speak without direct knowledge. If I have to choose who to believe, I choose reliable witnesses and not to those who only speak staying in front of their computers.

    • Patrik

      Everyone including me would like to own shares in Rossis company. This means that Rossi could have the biggest company in the world within one year. Wich would be very good since Rossi needs up to a hundred factorys that all start producing e-cats at the same time. He need to produce them fast since he has himself said they will be copied. He could retain majority of shares and have all the factorys he need and procude e-cats faster than anyone could match.

      And he choose not to.

      Any national measurment institute would be happy to measure I am sure. The swedes would gladly come back I am sure. And if any institute would confirm then he could have the biggest company in the world very soon while still calling all the shots and the citizens of the world would have e-cats very soon. All that it takes is for Rossi to allow such a measurement. And such a measurement could be made in less than 48 hours. And yet, he choose not to.

      And he choose not to!

      Epic mistake, truly epic. Each and every day competitors are closer to the secret. And he could easily speed well ahead of them instead by just one measurment. And he choose not to?

      • AstralProjectee

        I think his idea is that he can work in relative peace without the extra media attention and all that stuff until he goes public for real. Rossi knows he can get the world’s attention if he wants. That’s not what he wants to do now.

        • Ivan_cev

          If this is the case, He should not have open his mouth in the first oportunity.
          No one asked Him to go public.

          • AstralProjectee

            He needs to tell someone I think to get just enough attention to get funding and sell some 1 MW plants and other things. So there is an obvious advantage to not getting the world’s attention while still getting enough coverage that he can advance in relative privacy.

          • Peter_Roe

            Exactly right. Critics should try to remember that paying attention to this story is not compulsory – if they don’t like Rossi’s approach they can just walk away (please).

          • clovis

            Yep, Pete.
            I agree , i never heard such a line of bull, , again Dr. Rossie has the largest and best equipped company’s in the world measuring his invention, and i’m sure they and Dr,. Rossie know what the in’s and out’s are. and once again he’s not asking for investors, how many times does he have to say this. and he doesn’t care if people don’t believe him, he’s going ahead with his plan.
            These things will be so easly build that it will take no time at all to have them out to market, the 1 mw plants is the easiest,to sell so they will be first,
            Very smart, once the mo la starts to roll in then the home unites will come out.
            But of course by then the tech will have advanced even more, but there is no scene in building something that will have to be replaced, quickly,
            NOW ONCE AGAIN he has some of the worlds most intelligent folks working for him that know how to measure things, he needs no money he has plenty, all he needs is some time to work in peace , to bring forth a discovery that will change the world as we know it. so please be patient.

          • Milo

            Yes, someone asked him to go public. His friend Sergio Focardi asked him to do so. Rossi didn’t want to but accepted Focardis wish.

    • Lars B

      I think we all want this to be true, but..
      The distinction is:
      reliable data make good science
      reliable people make good friends.
      To witness a test setup by someone else is one thing, Controling the complete procedure is another.
      Why not let University of Bologna make the test?
      They have said that they will do it, provided they are allowed to publish the result.
      Rossi has repeatedly said he will let UB do it. But it never happens.
      Always the single obscure engineer doing the testing.

      • Omega Z

        Unibo wants half a million Euro’s

        • Lars B

          Oh I didn’t have that info.That would of course be problematic för Rossi as he has only sold one 1MW plant.

    • Peter_Roe

      For whatever reason, Hydro Fusion seem to have been out to damage Rossi with their apparently rigged ‘test’, and the unnecessary and duplicitous announcement on their website. It’s very difficult to see how Rossi can continue to do business with this company at any level, including distribution of the 1MW unit. I suspect that he may be looking for someone else to fill the Northern Europe distribution role, most likely outside of Sweden or the UK. I hope he never handed over the ownership of the domain ecat.com to HF.

      • Karl

        I agree. The Rossi Hydrofusion relation looks indeed very complicated.

        To my mind it is strange, unprofessional and extremely hostile to make such a public announcement that also creates such a bad publicity at a critical time for Rossi.

        Not only that, the major spokesman of Hydrofusion, Mr. Holm also withdrew from his speeches at the conference in Zurich where I have understood he should have talked about the Low heat 1 MW E-Cat that is on sale now.

        Very confusing, Hydrofusion makes a decision to withdraw from the conference and make a hostile public announcement based on measurement on a next generation prototype, Hot E-Cat obviously far from a final product.

        Why do Hydrofusion break the Non Discloser agreement while the parties handle delicate issues including the potential investment discussion?

        Should there have been any dispute about the measurement of energy it should of course have been handled behind closed doors and it should not have effected issues around the available 1MW E-Cat.

        As I understand, the guys behind the site ecat.com, indirectly Hydrofusion, are still active on the site promoting the E-Cat. Is there any logic and where is it in this very strange story?

        It seems certainly be enough ammunition for court room disputes here.

        • GreenWin

          The entire episode smacks of people with hurt feelings. The technical “measurements” appear to be little more than personality tests, done in an unscientific way, for FAR too short a period of time.

          We have at hand a group of mercurial scientists and entrepreneurs. We have very hard evidence of subterfuge in past alternative energy technologies not approved by the priesthood. We have vicious skeptopathy in the anti-Rossi and anti-LENR sectors.

          One four hour test with ZERO data, ZERO named testers, ZERO reports, and ONE petulant press release.

          I write the entire episode off as misunderstanding, damaged egos, ultimately unimportant in the grand scheme of bringing the e-cat to market. Time to move on from meaningless chatter.

        • GreenWin

          This is all MUCH ADO about nothing. Really. One undocumented, hearsay test and an ephemeral press release? More like someone felt insulted, took their ball and went home. Happens ALL the time in the VC (investor) world.

          If Ing Rossi has brought the technology to the 1200C temp area and has a 1MW low temp product Certified Safe throughout the European Union – he’s doing just fine. And if this was not the newest “hot button” for venture capital, why is Dr. Ed Beardsworth energy investment adviser and former EPRI exec (representing 90% electric utilities in USA) teaching a seminar on… LENR??? From CleanTech???

          https://www.eventbrite.com/event/3269034771?ref=ebtnebregn

          • Ged

            Indeed, good points all around.

            Again I point people to the raw data and temperature curves. They can see for themselves the response, which only makes sense if 1) the measurements are accurate within a small range, 2) the Hot Cat is working as intended, and 3) the LENR effect is best at low input not high input.

            Any of those three points answers this issue.

            In the end though, Rossi doesn’t even need to change anything about the input set up, he just needs one blank control and the issue is done. Hopefully he or someone on his team will realize that completely.

          • Omega Z

            GreenWin

            I agree 100%. Prove an Expert in his field wrong, They do tend to get an attitude real fast. They take their toys & go home.

        • GreenWin

          Finally some interesting NEWS from Dr. Brian Ahern under contract to EPRI Electric Power Research Institute:

          Program on Technology Innovation: Assessment of Novel Energy Production Mechanisms in a Nanoscale Metal Lattice

          “In one experiment, researchers used 10-nm nickel powder from
          Quantum Sphere Corp. The inner RTD was 208oC hotter than the
          outer RTD (533oC versus 325oC) and represents roughly ~ 21 watts
          from 5 grams of nanopowder, based on the calibration. The powder
          maintained this rate of thermal power output for a period of five days
          when it was terminated for evaluation. There was no sign of
          degradation of the power output. Researchers, however, were not
          able to replicate this final experiment due to limited project funding.”

          Interesting that the EPRI experiments with Arata-type Ni-Pd lattices yielded very low excess heat. But the above experiments with nickel and plain H2/H1 produced the higher 21W signal.

          “The underlying mechanisms have not been established in this
          research effort.

          Regardless of the underlying process, the excess thermal power
          output observed in this study, coupled with reports of European
          efforts, suggests that a new energy production concept maybe present
          and warrants further investigation and continued attempts for
          replication.”

          It appears on first quick read this report confirms the Focardi/Rossi catalyst type as producing the highest amount of excess heat.

          Download the PDF HERE: http://bit.ly/QgY9zP

          • daniel maris

            Yes, Nickel-Hydrogen seems to come up trumps every time across the field – and that must surely be a positive sign. 🙂

          • hempenearth

            From section 4-3:

            “The release of small amounts of excess energy was measured in over a dozen consecutive experiments in Phase I”.

          • barty

            I think this is worth enough to start a new article about, or not?

          • georgehants

            I think GreenWin deserves a round of applause for keep finding wonderful reports and always right on topic.

          • Barry

            Seconded, but you left out his humor.

          • GreenWin

            That’s not funny Barry.

          • Barry

            Wavy Gravy, said “If you don’t have a sense of humor, it just isn’t funny”.

      • AstralProjectee

        Rossi isn’t sweating this. He knows what he has seen more than Hydrofusion has ever seen.

    • Lars B

      Sometimes it doesn’t take long to identify serious errors.
      I quote from the independent third-party test released by Rossi in Switzerland available here:
      http://www.scribd.com/doc/105322688/Penon4-1

      “E-Cat power supply was effected through a control box panel provided with a kWh meter which did not allow separate evaluation of the voltage and current supplied to the module.For this reason, a voltmeter and a clamp ammeter were installed downstream from the control box, so as to monitor power data independently from the panel meter. Due to the fact that panel meter data were found to be quite discordant from those measured by the voltmeter and the ammeter, it was decided to ignore the former and use only the voltmeter and ammeter data recorded manually in the course of the test. Voltage was gradually increased step by step to higher values as E-Cat temperatures were shown to stabilize.”

      Fabio Penom, the engineer performing the test notices that the integrated power meters values differs from what he kan calculate from
      the volt meter and ampere meter (of undisclosed types) and by unknown reason decides to use the volt and amp meter readings in favor of the integrated instrument.

      What instrument provided the highest value for input power?

      It is strange that the report is very thorough when measuring output energy but very lacking in measuring input energy.
      No specifications for the volt and amp meter is given in the report
      And no information about the waveform of the supplied voltage, current.

      If, and I can only speculate, the amp and volt meter are not of the RMS measuring type, the readings can easily be off by a factor of 2 (low) if the waveform of the supplied electricity is not sinusoidal, wich will be the case if you are using a dimmer device that only let the current flow during parts of the complete 50 Hz cycle.

      You can read about these common measurement errors here http://www.copperinfo.co.uk/power-quality/downloads/pqug/322-true-rms–the-only-true-measurement.pdf

      Adding this hypothesis to the report in Ny Teknik that a group of investors walked out of Rossi’s lab when their expert from
      SP Technical Research Institute of Sweden found out, by using a true RMS measuring device, that the imput power was twice as high as shown by Rossi’s instruments, makes me suspicious.

      Independent third-party validation please.
      Or, knowing Rossi’s reluctance to provide this, the new measurements Rossi claims being done using the variac to vary the input power.
      Variac=autotransformer see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autotransformer

      • Methusela

        I find it hard to believe that an AC 60W standard new light bulb in fact consumes 200 watts.

        No wonder the world is in such a state!

        • Lars B

          Yes that is strange..
          I wonder how they measured that?
          Of course during a very short period, when the light i switched on you will have a significant power increase over nominal value due to the filament being cold and thus having a much lower resistance.
          Maybe If you have very low duty cycle on the applied voltage and a sufficiently long time period, the filament cools down between pulses?
          The power during these short pulses would then be much higher than nominal 60w.
          Maybe somebody can model a light bulb in matlab and check?

        • Ivan_Cev

          I do not believe a word about the 200w story, is the version corroborated, or just came from Rossi camp. they will say anything to justify the discrepancies in measurements.

          • Lars B

            Yes. If it is so that Rossi has had this problem
            with measuring the input power from the start
            Everything will be lost..
            His actions must be seen with this in mind.

          • somethingfishyhere

            Hmm… Remember, standard 60W bulbs power is 60W only when supply voltage is 230 V.

            If standard bulb is feeded with higher voltage, power will rise also (P=U2/R).

            Normal phase-to-phase-voltage (400 V) gives almost 200 W, but only for a short time.

      • Ivan_Cev

        I think you hit the nail with the question about which set of instruments gave the highest read, and why to discount the reading of the energy meter?
        is obvious from this that the voltmeter and amp-meter are having issues with the wave form.

        • captain

          Hi Admin, when I try to post a message, instead of being it visible for 5 ms as before, with the possibility of editing, now I can’t see it but a blank page appears with this >F300< so I can't no more modify my message.
          Why?

      • Peter_Roe

        I’m not sure I understand exactly why the (secondary) power measurements were taken downstream of the control box at all. Obviously if ‘odd’ waveforms were introduced by the control circuitry, then to avoid having to take into account square wave frequency vs. sample rate, harmonic series and possible power factor variance etc., then the place to make the measurements was the supply lead from the mains plug, i.e., before any complications were introduced.

        So now we have a bunch of Swedes who apparently can’t measure the power used by a light bulb, and several critical unknowns in Penon and Rossi’s use of measuring instruments. The accurate measurement of power, both input and output are absolutely critical to a proper assessment of the technology, yet time and again it is performed sloppily (and not only by Rossi).

        • Peter_Roe

          Actually, on second thoughts, a dimmer will probably introduce PF variance on the supply side, so upstream measurement may only be good if the supply goes straight to a variac.

          Alternatively the supply could go through an AC/DC transformer and bridge circuit, though the measuring instruments and then through a power inverter to the e-cat. Complicated, but at least it would put the matter to rest.

        • Lars B

          Or maybe that is exactly what they could?

          It would be nice to hear the other side of the story.
          What is the view of the engineer from SP?
          Did he even measure the 60w light bulb?
          And who came up with the idea to use a lightbulb for reference?
          Need calibration? Use the lightbulb. It’s new!

          • Omega Z

            My personal Experience with over powering a light bulb, Usually becomes a flash bulb. At the very least they don’t work long before they burn out.

      • Sanjeev

        Lars B, you have brought up many good points regarding the measurements of input. Myself and many other readers have raised similar comments on the blog thread on the subject.

        You need to also consider that there are many more unknowns, like make and type of the meters, whether calibrated or not and how and where they are actually connected. The details of grounding etc are also not there. The details of the energy meter which was showing ‘strange’ reading are also not there and no mention is made of why it showed strange reading and how much was the difference.

        Presence of high frequencies in the input was also not checked. HF heats up things very quickly and efficiently. This is the first thing to check when there is anomalous heat.

        There are too many questions here to consider the report either valid or invalid. May be Penon connected the meters before the dimmer and felt no need to compensate for waveform and the Swedish guys connected them after the dimmer and found 2x input. However no clarification or errata came from either Rossi or Penon himself. I wonder why this silence.

        You are right in saying that if the input is being measured wrongly from the beginning, then all measurements are bad and the Ecat is just a huge pile of mistakes. Lets not hope so. But Rossi is putting this important issue under the carpet is not really helping. He should immediately repeat the measurements properly and publish them again.

        Note that the Swedish are also nameless and can not be trusted. The whole thing is a big mess, as I see it.

        • Sanjeev

          I just realized that connecting the meters before the dimmer will still cause wrong current reading, voltage will be right. So the doubt deepens.

          Note that Rossi used a clamp meter to read the input current in his Oct 2011 demo and the supply was assumed to be 220V ( I guess). This is a no no in scientific measurements. Many people objected to it, but it was never repeated properly. I hope the military customer made more reliable measurements before paying.

          Measurements has been a weak area of Rossi since the beginning. What can I say, I wish he had good advisers.

    • Ivan_cev

      So you think an anonymous post is reliable people?

      • Omega Z

        Italo is speaking of Cures. So far he has been very reliable.

        However he’s been more tit lipped on Info since his outing as the inside Source/Leak. He still works with Rossi & is involved with the testing. He also says he is not bound by NDA, But loose lips could get him removed from the the privileged circle.

        He has recently mentioned he may write a book when everything is done & settled. Rough Google take: People will be amazed at behind the scenes happenings. A mention of James Bond.

        I’m getting tired of all this reading. Think I’ll wait for the Movie… Fresh Steam Popped, Pop corn & a brewsky 🙂

        CURES PRESENTS
        Rossi & the Hot Cats make the Snakes Steaming Mad.
        Don’t Miss It. It’ll be Electrifying.

        • captain kirk

          or Cures Presents….. Andrea Rossi and his AMAZING MAGIC E-CAT

        • Charles

          Back in the olden days when I was mentally 100% and practicing electronics engineering, measuring power involved things called rms voltage, impedance, power factor and form factor. I don’t recall anyone every mentioning these really techinical terms in any of these discussions. I do remember for sure you cannot accurately measure power anywhere even close with clip on ammeters and line-to-line voltmeters. Is there an up-to-date BSEE (or higher) with his degree in Power Engineering out there that can comment on this.

          • GreenWin

            Charles, you make perfect sense. And given the stakes and players we know are involved – it is doubtful the garage-type testing we read of, is in fact even close to what is really happening.

            One need only look at the hundreds of peer-reviewed reports on LENR/cold fusion from dozens of independent labs to realize, there is quality work being done with adequate protocols.

            Things in this game are NOT what they appear.

          • Jacob

            No need for chatters – Give Mr.Rossi time to work in peace – He is working on a great project , time and peace are needed.

          • georgehants

            New Efficiency Record for Photovoltaic Cells, Thanks to Heterojunction
            Science News
            ScienceDaily (Sep. 27, 2012) — In the medium term, an investment of only $2500 in photovoltaic cells would suffice to provide more than enough electricity for the consumption of a four people household. This promising scenario has been made possible by the innovations accomplished by EPFL’s Institute of Microengineering in Neuchatel. The team of prof. Christophe Ballif, director of the Photovoltaics Laboratory (PVlab), presented their work at the European Photovoltaic Solar Energy Conference and Exhibition that just took place in Frankfurt.
            http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120927130221.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Latest+Science+News%29

          • theBuckWheat

            When Iran tests its nuclear device, it may very well move to use it to generate EMP as the way to maximize its usefulness as a weapon.

            Solar cells are completely and utterly vulnerable to EMP. Small localized power generation by e-Cat can be totally protected. It is my hope that eCat will quickly be available in some useful form.

          • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

            Changing the subject slightly, Frank said to me “nickel – hydrogen is the way to go.” when I first joined the forums. The following peer reviewed paper by EPRI (Electric Power Research Institute) tried all the methods known. Only the combination of nano sized nickel and dry gas loading by hydrogen yielded satisfactory results. And that was just once, just when funds had run out. Quote

            In one experiment, researchers used 10-nm nickel powder from
            Quantum Sphere Corp. The inner RTD was 208oC hotter than the
            outer RTD (533oC versus 325oC) and represents roughly ~ 21 watts
            from 5 grams of nanopowder, based on the calibration. The powder
            maintained this rate of thermal power output for a period of five days
            when it was terminated for evaluation. There was no sign of
            degradation of the power output. Researchers, however, were not
            able to replicate this final experiment due to limited project funding.

            Unquote.

            We now have facts.

            1) Nanotech is part of it. Size 10 nm or less for the nickel particles, which is comparable with Intel’s 22 nm grooves for their chips. This radically increases surface area for the dry gas loading.

            2) No additives or “Catalysts”. Yes, you Rossi. That is a smokescreen to slow down potential competitors. Well you’re rumbled.

            3) A mass/energy ratio of 21 watts/5 grams, or 4.2 watts/gram. This scales to a half kilo mass of nickel nanopowder supplying 2100 watts, sufficient to boil a kettle, or a 25 kilo mass supplying 105000 watts, sufficient for a red hot cylinder of the size seen in Rossi’s photo.

            4) A rectified AC mains current to kick off the reaction. Brillouin may use a DC current with a smaller AC component that can speed up the initial LENR reaction. Getting the reaction to stop and cool down might be tricky, though. Brillouin claims to have this solved.

            So…why wait for Rossi? I don’t have the means or the technical skill, but perhaps somebody can persuade their University Physics department or school?

            http://my.epri.com/portal/server.pt?space=CommunityPage&cached=true&parentname=ObjMgr&parentid=2&control=SetCommunity&CommunityID=404&RaiseDocID=000000000001025575&RaiseDocType=Abstract_id

          • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

            The above link works. But you will have to right click on it.

    • barty

      What’s with the “F300” at the left top edge of this website?
      Are there hackers on work?

      • admin

        No, just me, messing up my website! I will try and get it fixed!

        I hope it’s ok now.

      • GreenWin

        From Jeremy Wakeford’s Engineering News article:

        “There are estimates using just the performance of some of the devices under study that 1% of the nickel mined on the planet each year could produce the world’s energy requirements at the order of 25% the cost of coal.” Dr. Dennis Bushnell, Chief Scientist NASA Langley Research Center

        “So, the evidence seems to be accumulating – and the supporting theories slowly catching up – that human society may, over the coming years, undergo an energy revolution on the scale of the fossil fuel revolution or the discovery and use of electricity.”

        http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/lenr-appears-to-be-gathering-steam-2012-08-24

        • georgehants

          GreenWin Another good find, slowly slowly the Truth gets through.
          —-
          The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived opinion, by prejudice.
          Arthur Schopenhauer

          • GreenWin

            Excellent quote George.

          • Peter_Roe

            It is, but I find Max Planck’s quotes about funerals more satisfying, for some reason.

          • Robert

            A cop of 6? How would he know if he doesn’t know the first thing about measuring power in and power out. He could not have set a baseline. My patience is wearing thin why all these games measure the power under NSA with unibo and all will be good so simple.

          • GreenWin

            The only thing an “NSA” does at “unibo” is record conversations.

          • Ged

            A little outside their jurisdiction, but not sure that has ever stopped them!

          • LCD

            “G_Zingh on September 18, 2012 at 12:36 am

            Apparently the threat is from stray neutrons which under certain circumstances can be generated by the Ecat at COP 200. He talks about it here about 6:45 minutes into the video.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjOoGtTFpNk&feature=player_embedded
            Reply ”

            I saw that GZ. Crap if its true that neutrons escape at a COP of 200 then it will be a long time before domestic versions can be sold because you cannot hide the possibility that somehow somebody will create a free neutron source and harm people. Whether by accident or not.

          • Kim G. Patterson

            Its dangerous to run with scissors in your hand too
            I am told!

            Respect
            Kim

          • norm

            Are you serious!? Comparing neutron radiation with scissors, LOL.

          • pg

            actually scissors (or blades in general) cause every year way more physical damage than radiation…

          • Kim G. Patterson

            My point was that everything is dangerous
            if not used properly ect…

            Respect
            Kim

          • Owen Abrey

            It is not the presence of neutrons that is significant as it is their energies. Neutrons at ultra low energies lack activation energies required to accrete to normal matter, and so pass through or bounce through matter, that is after all, mostly empty space on the scale of a neutron…

          • LCD

            You just don’t see people with nuclear reactors in homes today Kim.

            That’s the point.

          • GreenWin

            This is a VERY preliminary finding not atypical of prototype energy devices. Early microwave ovens went through a similar process of limiting their output and leakage to prevent burns. The CRT that populated millions of human homes for 50 years, regularly emitted x-rays. Both cases were controlled by good consumer product engineering.

        • Omega Z

          GreenWin

          Rossi’s Original estimate of using 2 or 3% of world nickel production no longer holds up long term. The Nickel to Copper mutation appears to only be a side effect of the process. With refinement of the E-cat the percentage is dropping to near zero mutation.

          Not to mention the quantity of nickel used in the core is down to about 1 gram. Less then $1 U.S. nickels in scale to load a 1Mw Hot Cat with 99% recycle.

  • The big hurdle for Rossi will be overcoming the $1.5-million “tag shock” with a product that at first will not have been widely tested and used. It will take a lot of time to overcome that hurdle, especially since he apparently has little feel for public relations and marketing. Up to the point where it really goes commercial, he will have done all that work himself, obviously with mixed results. The same is true of Randell Mills, whom many colleagues say is an irascible and unpleasant person. He hired Hill & Knowlton, supposedly, but they haven’t even been able to get his highly newsworthy hydrino reactor validation tests into Popular Mechanics.

    • Richard Hill

      Joe Shea mentioned the $1.5-million “tag shock”, at this price 1 MW of low temperature heat is not a bargain. In fact it seems to be cleverly pitched at a level where alternatives are just practical, such as waste heat recovery from generation. This is good marketing, because it allows Rossi a gradual ramp-up of manufacturing as the demand is managed at a low level.

      • Peter_Roe

        It also has the effect of making the 1MW e-cat appear non-threatening to fossil and nuclear competition, which seems to have been a part of Rossi’s strategy until very recently. “A Ferrari Made to Walk Like a Turtle” (I think that should probably be ‘tortoise’).

    • Omega Z

      1.5 million with a 3 year pay back. More competitive then it sounds.

      I know a Factory that spent 1.2 million for new light system because it saved them $180K per year on electric. 6.6 year pay back.
      They also paid $4 million for a 12’x40′ furnace up to 1200’C temps, plus $4 million to setup & install. They have 4 of these now.

      I don’t think the price for these companies will be a deterrent. Especially when your competition is going to be on a long waiting list for sometime to come.

      Also with all new products, The 1st customers always pay more. Their the ones who pay for the original R&D & production setup. Kind of like the new OLED screen coming to market. $8K & up. 10 years from now the average customer will buy them for a few hundred.

      Actually all Rossi has to do is sell them cheaper then any alternative at this time. What the market will bare.

      Some statements from Rossi: Price will very by customer due to individual needs, customizing & Circumstances…(Competitiveness Pricing) That doesn’t mean Cheap.

      My Take:
      He isn’t going to sell them any cheaper then necessary at this time. Customers are going to pay for the Business expansion & continued R&D as with any new product.

      1st Customers will also get preferential treatment & discounts on future versions. A Big plus to Big Business.

    • barty

      What I don’t understand:

      If Rossi really has over 60 employees, I think at least ONE of them would go public with informations if Rossi should be a scammer.

      There are so many physic professors (e.g. Forcadi), electric specialists and others involved.
      Is it possible all these highly educated people are pulling together?

      I never saw a “free energy” fraud in the past where so many high grade people were involved.

      For me it’s hard to believe that Rossi is a scammer.

      • Pachu

        1) IF, IF… who says he has 60 employees??

        2) Not so many and they usually says things like “i didnt test the power, thats not my field”, i dont think they are pulling, they have been quietly avoiding the link with Rossi.

        3) Again not so many, lot of people circunstantially involved that does not know if Rossi is real, remember Essen and Kullader, go ask them now.

        4) I hope not, but he behaves like one.

        What i see is a lot of people have in his mind granted things that doesnt really have happened, the collective of people needs to clean what is fact, i keep reading things granted only by the Rossi says, i find fun that he complains about chatters beeen him the chatter #1.

        Sorry im tired of Rassi says while he keeps moving to get investors money, have you seen the place in google street view where the “voluntary” safety test was done? come on!

        I keep my hope in other players and LENR in general.

      • captain

        add to my post

        today, 60m SEK are approx. million € or 9 million $

        and for that amount, IF I were Rossi, I’d p.ss’em off with very hot regards e no regret.

      • Max S

        but there is no trace of these 60 employees (except what Rossi says).
        I could find only one (through linkedin) : the body builder Fabiani who is at the same time Rossi´s technical director and co-author of the “independent” report presented in Zurich.
        Focardi said he does not know how the process works and does not want to know.
        Kullander reported he had identified Cu and Fe but did not dig deeper when his measurements were totally inconsistent with Rossi´s claims of transmutation (natural isotope ratio). Today Rossi says the process may be different, it means he fooled them at the time or did not understand what was going on.
        These are all really credible sources…..

    • GreenWin

      Joe, I think you need to name those who make the statement: “The same is true of Randell Mills, whom many colleagues say is an irascible and unpleasant person.” I follow Blacklight closely and have only ever seen a fellow Harvard classmate state that Mills was always a brilliant, industrious dedicated family man.

      And in fact I have exchanged emails with Mills and found him open, and helpful. The fact Hill & Knowlton has not placed a story in PM is likely a feather in their cap. Pop Mechanics is a “buff book” for teenagers and not known for scientific integrity.

      Further we now know that a stunning technical achievement like Blacklight’s CIHT cell, WITH six unimpeachable verifications AND H&K publicity – yields NADA in mainstream. Wonder why??

  • stuey

    forget the hotcat, what happened to the e-cat? just show them that.

  • What are the true intention of Hydrofusion ?
    If not trying to destruct A Rossi. It is not a goo friend
    or allied.

    • Carmania

      Yes, I would want to know what the intention of the press-release was? Not exactly standard procedure when you decide to not invest. Have someone interviewed any HydroFusion representatives? If they send out press releases I guess they would also be interested in talking to media?

      • Claes

        My guess is this: you rack up investors with open wallets and arrange a test that they’re not satisfied with. If you want to have any chance of rectifying this you must retain your credibility – which means taking the test that you arranged seriously. If they were to say “screw you and your $15,000 meters – and by the way, how about coming back next month to have another look?” that would hardly work. They obviously found themselves between a rock and a hard place and they had to act quickly.

    • Claes

      Yeah, four Swedes probable bet most of their money, time and credibility in a quest to make life a little miserable for that Rossi they had read about somewhere. Makes a lot of sense… The level of speculation here is staggering at times! Time will tell whether the hot cat is a generator of heat or simply a toaster.

    • Ivan_Cev

      Thanks to the controversy we able to understand more about the feeding of the ecat

  • captain

    Quoted from this link this link http://energycatalyzer3.com/news/ecat-test-failure-leads-to-loss-of-85-million-investment

    …an unidentified group of Swedish investors was prepared to invest up to 65 million Swedish Kronors or SEK the national Currency of Sweden (which is around $10 million US or 7.6 million Euros) in the Northern European ecat licensee Hydro Fusion (update: we initially reported the investment was in Euros rather than Kronors because we assumed the investment was in Euros because NyTek mentioned no currency)….

    IMO Rossi could politely p.ss’em off, with very hot regards!

  • G_Zingh

    I generally support Rossi and believe he has the real deal. However what exactly the deal is may not be clear to me. Things I wonder about include:

    1. Where are the buyers for the 1 MW semi-hot E-cat? Are these still not available or is nobody interested?

    2. Why give a presentation to a group of would be investors for an R&D product and not ask for investments?

    3. Did Hydrofusion tell Rossi before the conference they had no confidence in the data and ask him not to make the Hotcat presentation? It certainly would explain their reaction.

    5.Rossi has stated that in 3 months detailed measurements of the Hotcat would be released. I am assuming he will not release measurements of a non-product because I see no upside for him in doing so. Therefore isn’t he in effect setting a deadline for completion of an R&D 1st generation product where no products have gone before? Does this go to pattern and explain some of his behavior? If in 3 months he does not have the desired results of the Hotcat R&D what does he do? Is he projecting success on a timeline only to be tripped up by reality?

    I like Rossi because he is unique in his approach and seems to really want to make a difference in a positive way to the human condition but sometimes I got to scratch my head and wonder what the heck is going on.

    • Andre Blum

      to your point (2):

      I am not sure what presentation you are referring to. The presentations in Zurich were not for investors, but for licensees. These licensees themselves may be looking for investors, however.

      I so far understood that the investors from Sweden were interested in investing in Hydrofusion, not Leonardo Corp. This technical due diligence must have been in that context, and Rossi had to host these guys for that purpose, with only an indirect interest himself.

      • G_Zingh

        I am not saying your technically inaccurate, but why specifically mention he was not accepting investments in the Hotcat if investing in the Hotcat was not of interest to those present at Zurich.

        It looked to me that there were a lot more people at that conference than just licensees. Certainly the information generated by this presentation would be of interest to a lot more people than just the licensees, and of interest to others who were not in that room. Rossi must know this.

        Also it is a given that the sale of Ecats benefits Rossi regardless of who distributes the product.

  • Timar

    “Tests on the Hot Cat are still underway, and in November a final report will be published about the version of the hot cat which will be decided on for industrialization.”

    I’m afraid that’s not exactly what Rossi said. He said: “We will finish within November, and then we will publish the final results” – finishing the tests doesn’t mean instant publication (see Defkalion…)

    • captain

      Oh darling, I feel sorry that U’re afraid!

      • GreenWin

        A refreshing display of compassion Captain.

  • Is it possible to invite 2 official measuring burro’s, then first agree upon the way of measuring and put this on paper and let it be signed by all parties incl. Rossi. Than do the test as agreed upon and finally also agree on the results. No agreement no publishing! And if something is not running as it should, do the test again.

    • Ged

      And do with blank controls.

      Definitely would be ideal.

  • Gerrit

    Maybe we can expect 21 dec 2012 (end of the mayan calendar) as a date for the next big Rossi revelation / demonstration, just like the demonstration on 21 oct 2011 when the world was going to end.

    The other possible date for new information is the count down timer at prometeon, which was recently set to 1.11.2012, but it might as well be just the start of their web site.

    The thing I am waiting for is that the Italian customer of the 1MW plant is revealed, gets the plant delivered and will show the world.

    If that doesn’t happen till the end of this year well then …. 2012 was not the year of cold fusion.

    The next scientific event that will provide significant news will be the ICCF-18: July 19-26, 2013 in the USA. That’s 10 months to go, too long 🙁

    Am I getting impatient, or irritated ?

    Is there any other event planned that will provide interesting info ?

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      >Is there any other event planned that will provide interesting info ?

      Details about Celani’s efforts in making his Ni-H reactor self-sustaining, for example.

      Nicholas Chauvin from LENR-Cars was also interested in replicating one and demonstrating it in front of professors in this university: http://www.epfl.ch/ . He should have obtained materials for a replication by now.

      • He is working with others under the initiative “Fleischmann Memorial”.
        Check their announces.
        Maybe results in few weeks… Will see.

    • Venno

      Definately the 21/12/12 the mayan date will see something I hope
      Only thing for sure is change

  • Mark

    Rossi is a genius engineer and astute salesperson.
    (MHO, Rossi found the input measurement problem long
    before the Hydrofusion. He decided that
    to sell a million e-cats to a million
    customers is impossible. but to sell
    one or two 1MW units is much an easy job.
    You invite five potential customers,
    show them two Hot-ECATS, they will fight
    to buy them. You get $3 million, pay your creditors, and
    close the shop.

  • Robyn

    Hey folks, (and admin), sorry to harp on this question:

    On August 11, Rossi made this statement:

    “AFTER THE LEAKAGE MADE BY AN INSIDER WITH THE THE NICKNAME “CURES” REGARDING THE TESTS COMPLETED ON JULY 16TH, WHICH HAD TO REMAIN UNDER NDA, I HAVE TO INFORM THAT: THE TEST MADE ON JULY 16TH WILL BE REPEATED OFFICIALLY WITHIN THE HALF OF OCTOBER 2012 BY THE UNIVERSITY OF BOLOGNA AND THE RESULTS WILL BE PUBLISHED BY THE SAME UNIVERSITY.”

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/08/the-cures-effect-will-it-help-or-hinder-the-e-cat-cause/

    I recall University of Bologna releasing a letter “there is no formal relationship between the University of Bologna” and Rossi regarding the e-cat.

    Since October is next week, I am curious if anyone knows any new information on this part of the story.

    Is there going to be a report in October?

    • Francesco CH

      Ok.

      You have to be patient because the problem raised by the Swedes has had as consequence the need of restarting measurements from scratch. Hence, complete measurements will require more time than previously conceived.

      • Nihdal

        So you mean the Swedes were correct in their measurements and the earlier input power measurements are all invalid?

        • Francesco CH

          You wrote two questions.

          1) − the Swedes were correct in their measurements −

          • No.

          2) − the earlier input power measurements are all invalid −

          • Yes.

          • Nihdal

            Ok, fair enough! I guess it´s a good thing the Swedes alerted Rossi on his mistakes before he published a report or something!

          • Ivan_Cev

            What is the base for the affirmations?

    • Ged

      Nice reminder! I guess we will see.

      Edit: Francesco has a great answer, and I agree with him. This seems most likely that the report mentioned in the above quote is now moved to November.

      • GreenWin

        Frankly Ged, I think the entire universe is fed up with the game. Tests are great for science. This is no longer science. Apparently not enough people believe it worth while even when we see COP 10-20-100. Returning A LOT more than is put in.

        Rossi should tell em to go find another fall guy and get the eff out of the whole racket.

        • Ivan_Cev

          What you mean no longer science? science is the search of truth and discovery of natural phenomena which later will be augmented by human ingenuity.
          If this is no longer science… you mean we are in the realm of Voodoo marketing?
          Dogma is good enough?
          I also want LENR to be real and Rossi ecat to be real, but no matter how much I wish it will not make it real or not real.
          Some people here believe if they have blind faith then the ecat will materialize real, is maybe a quantum leap of faith.
          The burden to prove in on the one who makes the claim.

          • jacob

            Ivan,Lenr and cold fusion is as real as the ground you stand on,what you don’t understand is why science is not funded enough to get to the truth and why science is nothing if no one is funding and pays the scientists to get to the bottom of it.
            But unfortnately the people controlling the funding are also bowing to the wishes of those with the deep pockets.
            LENR is bad for oil and banks and universities ,who get millions in the form of endowments from those with deep pockets.

            Just look at the names on the buildings on your campus’es and then you know who they are.

          • Ivan_cev

            I do not think money is what stopping the replication, Maybe greed in the side of the researchers.
            Celani said it cost less than an euro to produce his wire.
            No one argues. If the want to make money it’s their rigth.

  • Johannes Hagel

    I am only a theoretical physicist but still I do not understand what is so difficult in measuring electrical power with a non sinusodial wave form in case of a pure ohmical load. Should the power not be computed by:

    T
    P = 1/T * Integral [U(t) * I(t)] dt
    0

    where T is the time span of measurement and U(t) and I(t) are the actual voltage and current as functions of time? They can be nicely obtained by an oscilloscop and then one should numerically integrate over U(t) * I(t) in the given interval! Its not so difficult, isnt it?
    I would recommend to Rossi to do this AS FAST AS POSSIBLE to get reliable values for the input power since this is at the beginning of everything, as I understand it!!!

    Best regards

    Johannes

    • Mark

      Johannes!
      You are absolutely right!
      It is a no-brainer.
      But what do you do if you
      are already announced to the
      world that a free energy is
      coming in two-three months
      and the input measurement shows
      the wrong numbers?…Please, offer
      Your solution.

      • Johannes Hagel

        This is a very good question. However IF Rossi actually realized
        that something went wrong with his numbers the best way out is to admit it to the world NOW. At least much better than entering a regime of fraud and scam. In fact things will not be so depressing for the world since we know already that LENR is a real effect. Just that maybe the outcome is not yet so large as Rossi believes and keeps telling to us. And for the world it does not matter if Rossi does it just in three months or somebody else arrives there within some years.

        • Iggy Dalrymple
        • Mark

          Johaness,
          Thanks for Your reply.
          Yes, LENR is a real effect,
          but it does not mean it is so
          easy to harness. Casimir effect
          is also a real one, do we have
          a machine based on it ?
          Hot fusion is real, but we can’t
          control it for 50 years.
          Widom-Larsen stated that we’ve
          to have Ni transmutations. If we
          assume that E-CAT is LENR, Rossi
          denies nickel transmutations and talks
          about helium as the final product.
          All technological breakthroughs – radio,
          TV, radar, fission, transistors – have
          been based on a solid scientific theory,
          verified in the labs. Unfortunately,
          SRI lab and other serious labs are
          still wandering in the darkness.

          • GreenWin

            Mark, fission theory was so tenuous some physicists predicted the first test bomb could ignite the entire planet.

            Transistors have only now begun to reveal the subtle quantum tunneling effects taking place at the nuclear particle level.

    • Ged

      Pretty sure exactly that was done in the Zurich report. There’s some nice equations in there anyways one can take a look at, just to verify.

    • Jacob

      Record the current wave form over one cycle of the voltage via a digital storage scope – cut it into 100 equal time intervals ( it is then approximated to 100 rectangulars of different heights ) and calculate the current RMS value from that and then the power accordingly.
      I believe some true power meters can do that already.

    • Marius

      The Swedes can come back and measure the output after he has hooked up with turbine and generator. 100% conversion effiency thermal to electric, that would make for some press release!

    • Ivan_Cev

      The problem will be if there are irregular spikes then you will not be able to integrate. In Rossi case probably there is a steady state and the integration will be possible.
      Abundo approach to filter the wave with reactors and measure power including reactor, variac etc is also good, the input power measured this way will be a bit higher because the loss in reactor and variac, but it should be about 5% to 10% higher depending in the internal impedance of this elements.

  • GreenWin

    There are some very interesting new bits of information coming from an interview with Nicolas Chauvin & Dr. Antoine Guillemin – the French entrepreneurs behind the LENR Cars project. Chauvin is a MSc EFPL engineer, Guillemin is a Physics PhD. Together they are discussing LENR with a PhD grad student at EPFL | École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne – French technical university. The discussion was recorded by Sterling Allen of PESN.

    Of note is the fact that Chavin and Guillemin helped Francesco Celani build his demo reactor for the NI Week and ICCF17 conference. They have plans to add additional nickel wires to bring the excess heat to ~100W and are helping Celani run his experiment in self-sustain mode.

    They also discuss plans for a LENR replication kit… substantially duplicating the Celani cell for wide distribution to university physics departments and interested public/private laboratories. This would be a huge step toward widely distributed LENR research.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euNzXkapqwQ

    Also revealed are tests on the hot-cat operating at ~850C in self-sustain mode. But the data was not made public in Zurich because of safety shutdown issues concerning the certification people.

    What is interesting is to see this discussion taking place between young graduates and students. This bodes well for future LENR development.

    • GreenWin

      Also interesting in the research sector is NETimes (Kirvit) 3 Part story on the return of EPRI (US electric utilities R&D) and Toyota to LENR research. While these two organizations have increased their research into LENR recently, Toyota has never really stopped. For example Toyota’s Central Research and Development Laboratories Inc., Nagakute, Aichi, published this LENR paper last year:

      Absorption Capacity and Heat Evolution with Loading of Hydrogen Isotope Gases for Pd Nanopowder and Pd/Ceramics Nanocomposite T. Hioki ∗,H. Azuma, T. Nishi, A. Itoh, S. Hibi, J. Gao and T. Motohiro and J. Kasagi at Research Center for Electron Photon Science, Tohoku University, Sendai

      And further replicated transmutation experiments done by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries’ paper “Observation of Low Energy Nuclear Transmutation Reactions Induced by Deuterium Permeation through Multilayer Pd and CaO”

      But NETimes suggests the level of investment in LENR research has increased markedly which is to be expected considering the world-wide cold fusion buzz.

      Likewise we can assume that EPRI is now hastily funding LENR research in order for its constituent members (all major electric utilities in the US) not to get caught pants down. But it appears they already have.

      And the heat goes on.

      • Research is great but products need to be on the market
        for the real benefits to be realized.

        In the log run this is probably the best incentive to fund
        research.

        Someone has to be first when one has it will wake up the
        others.

        In todays world as contrasted to the heyday of the industrial
        revolution 100 years ago we have become complacent with
        small or minimal improvements rather than progressing with
        new inventions out in the world.

        Flemming discovers penicillin and it was used to treat the
        real world right away but today really effective cancer cures are being researched for decades under the wraps.

    • LilyLover

      Finally, the truth comes out…
      PhD seeking grad students are the ONLY source of hard work behind any innovation.
      Want bright future? Burn your present. FOR US.

      The day the “Advisor” (Exploiter) becomes decoupled from the Degree Plan; i.e. the day the quality of PhD-work is judged anonymously, by randomly selected committee, will be the golden day of intelligence being freed from slavery of the high priests.

      Grad Students!
      Love you.
      Hope they give you enough stipend to afford Taco Bell. & 1992 Civic.

    • note that Nicolas Chauvin speak French, but is Swiss, and can be proud of it. EPFL, a high level research campus seems really great and have , more than French universities, good incubators.

      People forget that beside banking, Switzerland have very high precision industry.

    • barty

      Program on Technology Innovation: Assessment of Novel Energy Production Mechanisms in a Nanoscale Metal Lattice

      Abstract

      In 1989, Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons made an announcement of energy release from a palladium electrode that was infused with deuterium nuclei. Many technical groups around the world attempted to verify their claims with little or no success. The reproducibility was less than 3%, and the rate of excess energy release was sporadic and unremarkable at levels less than several watts. During the past 20 years, research in this area has continued around the world much in “stealth mode”; however, recent claims by several researchers warranted an independent investigation to experimentally replicate the findings, assess their claims, and evaluate the prospects for commercial viability. In this 2011 Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) Technology Innovation–sponsored research effort, experiments were undertaken to investigate and attempt to replicate these recent international research claims. Nanocomposite materials were produced, placed inside a stainless steel Dewar flask, and evacuated at 200ºC. Hydrogen gas was added to the Dewar flask, and resistance thermal devices recorded the temperature rise during the exothermic reaction of nickel hydride formation. While several research reports from Europe indicated significant thermal energy output from nanotextured nickel in the presence of hydrogen gas, tests of similar materials conducted under this EPRI research grant produced only milliwatt-scale thermal power releases, and in one experiment, a 21-watt release was observed but not replicated.

      While interesting results were observed, the research was not able to yield repeatable experiments, given the scope and budget for this effort. However, continued independent experimental work is recommended in this area. The exact physical mechanisms are still unknown, and a reliable and robust experimental system test is warranted to gain further understanding of the commercial viability of this new energy production mechanism.

      http://my.epri.com/portal/server.pt?Abstract_id=000000000001025575

      • GreenWin

        This is disinfo language designed rather transparently to allow skeptics to dismiss the entire EPRI cold fusion report. Since many will not READ beyond the Abstract they will be bamboozled into thinking Ahern found nothing of significance. But in fact, the opposite is true. Ahern found significant excess heat of 21W for five days with the Ni powder catalyst undamaged.

        The fact that EPRI allowed this bit of obvious Parseltongue to pass goes to show their servitude to their masters. The REASON no repeatable experiments were made was purely a lack of funding.

        • Peter_Roe

          It’s a curious mix to say the least – do some limited but successful work, then downplay the results to the point of distortion. It seems the old gods must still be appeased, even while the new one works some miracles – or (just possibly) they want others to dismiss this as nothing, while they try to get a head start.

          Which it is will become apparent by whether or not they fund repeats of the successful experiment. If they don’t – its their loss, and others will reap the rewards.

    • Ivan_Cev

      Certainly there is a renaissance of LENR in prestigious universities, lets hope we soon seen replication and prove beyond doubt that the scientific method require. believing because such guy said so or that is not on.
      I will say EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS NEED SOLID PROVE.

      • Peter_Roe

        Please stop mindlessly repeating that old mantra, or variations of it. ‘Extraordinary’ is a subjective term that has no place in science. All claims in science require proving – CF phenomena are no different, and require proofs to the same standard as in any other field.

  • Adam Lepczak

    Gentlemen,
    I have a quick thought…Is it possible that Dr. Rossi’s catalyst is actually a powdered neodymium magnet?
    I could see a scenario where few years back he might have been playing with neo magnets in his lab and one of them has shattered by accident. The neodymium magnets are nickel plated but the substance of the magnet is actually very brittle. It might be possible that it all got blended together and under specific conditions it started to get hot.
    Also, it might be possible that strong magnetic field could be used as a catalyst for some reactions all the way down to atomic level…
    It is just a though. It has no real scientific justification. But I think that Dr. Rossi discovery was totally accidental….

    • Investors advisor says “could not be reproduced” without
      actual report.

      Rossi claims faulty readings but ignores reply.

      Bedtime for bonzo.

      Who cares about an institutional investor no one will complain
      buying the 10KW with a COP of 6 for 500 euro.

    • jacob

      like most overunity systems some interactions have to involve a spacial distortion of space time,either through spinning matter or through a magnetic field.
      I would think it as plausible to have neodymium magnets at low temperature,but anything over 300 celsius most likely will lose its magnetic properties,that leaves a unstable powder with emissions like radium.

      • jacob

        It seems obvious to me that the swedish company planned and premetitated beforehand to set Rossi up,by only staying 4 hours,without waiting for the ecat to reach the all important self sustain temperatures to reach self sustain mode with the assistance of the electric resistor.

        And by breaking a non disclosure agreement.
        What is hydro fusion hiding ?

        • Brad Arnold

          Rossi is Hank Rearden, and the Hot Cat is Rearden Steel (i.e. “Atlas Shrugged).

          • GreenWin

            Brad, does that make you Ayn Rand?

        • GreenWin

          Although I don’t believe for a minute this is the case, VC investors’ playbook includes “independent audits” that somehow come up short. At that point they negotiate a sweeter deal – usually for greater equity control since the entrepreneur needs the $$.

          Shrug. “It’s business.”

          • jacob

            hmm,you could be right on that, but when 600 million of investments are at stake, I would not rule anything out,trying to be informed with only bits of pieces of information leads to guessing a this point.

    • Omega Z

      Adam Lepczak

      Close.

      Not by accident. By a process of elimination.
      Testing Thousands of combination’s.

      Focardi said that Rossi tried something that most Scientists would never have thought of. Sometimes it pays not to know everything. Makes you think outside the box.

  • Dra

    I used to think there might have been something in this. But now the circus has continued for too long. How can there still be doubts about measurement, unless you are deliberately trying to avoid a universally agreed test? I’ll stick to watching the real developments while the showman continues. I hope I’m wrong.

    • GreenWin

      You’re wrong.

    • hempenearth

      Hi Dra,
      Your question “How can there still be doubts about measurement? could be answered by those who deliberately try to create doubt. There are more than a few who want to create doubt about Rossi’s work.

      The conspiracy theorist in me says that Rossi’s weakness is through his licensees. Leaks from Roger Greene via “Robert K”, now anonymous testers through Hydrofusion.

      • LCD

        Well surely his web of lies will unravel now with the licensees. Lets pull the popcorn out and enjoy the show.

  • jacob

    What if hydrofusion is just in existance to undermine leonardo corp.
    I think I smell a dead rat from the puppet and snakes.
    Did hydrofusion sell out to an oil interest?
    We asume on details that are very scetchy as far as hydrofusion is concerned.
    Even WIKI ,who thinks Lenr should go away ,had the information edited within seconds,so was hydrofusion just a WIKI stunt?

  • jacob

    Hydro fusion likely were trying to buy shares,once they found out Rossi didn’t bite, they ran away very quickly away from the testing procedure and expected Rossi,to beg them to stay for their investment of 600 million dollars? Rossi may have said ,smell you later.

    Ok,just my opinion,i am not pointing fingers,but just putting the pieces together as they unfold.

    • Patrik

      There is alot of posts like this. Let me assure you that the measuring intitute that Hydrofusion did use would never lend themselfes to any false measurments to please a customer.

      • captain

        I assure U that for doing WELL a thing 3 conditions are absolutely needed:

        1st – To have THE WILL to do it;
        2nd – To have THE MEANS to do it;
        3rd – To have THE KNOW-HOW to do it.

        Should one or more of said conditions have to miss, a bad outcome is assured.

        So it woukd be a wise thing that before talking on certain things, people keep in mind the THREE CONDITIONS.

        • Ivan_cev

          Agreed, Who is more likely to meet this conditions, the ones that their occupation is to make this kind of measurments or the one that makes the claim?
          I go with the profesionals!

          • GreenWin

            Ivan, does that mean you “go” away?? Just kidding Ivan. Read the history of cold fusion calorimetry – it is the debunker’s favorite area to attack.

      • GreenWin

        Patrik, that’s a bit naive. Rigged science, tests, measurements, assessments is epidemic today because such things modulate great flows of money. Since this one, single “test” was made by an anonymous technician without a written report or data of any kind – it is meaningless. We cannot demand official, written data from Rossi and NOT from independent tests.

        Should NASA tomorrow say they have landed a man on Mars, would you believe it true – without evidence?? Just because it is NASA??

  • Stephen

    Poor Rossi, the whole world is in a conspiracy against him…

  • Owen Abrey

    I have given Rossi until the end of this fall to produce even a prototype commercial product that can be studied by 3rd parties. I hope he comes through, but by January the anti-rossi crowd will have the benefit of my doubt. And my order for an ecat will be cancelled too… 🙂

    • dominik

      You guys really believe that company that is about to invest milions of dollars would send unskilled people with wrong measuring devices to do job that can make them very successful or very naive ? I remember that Rossi promised million units factory ready and operational around November 2012. Units on sale in Home Depot, cooperation with some respected firms and all of them denied this … I also want to believe , dream about free energy … but just how naive can We be?