Preliminary MFMP Tests With New Cells Show Positive Results

A new blog post the Martin Fleischmann Memporial Project’s web site describes a new cell the team has started testing. The purpose of the new cell design with both a stainless steel tube and glass envelope surrounding the Celani wire is to capture almost all the heat coming from the cell in order to get as accurate temperature readings as possible.

new MFMP CellIn our preliminary experiment, after successfully loading the Celani wires with Hydrogen, we have been applying 84.8 Watts input power in the passive cell and 80.0 Watts in the active cell to maintain very similar water temperatures (± 0.1 °C) in the same large volume of water.

This early test suggests that it takes 6% more power to maintain the same volume of water at the same temperature in the control cell when compared to the active cell. This is also the first experiment where we have two lengths of Celani wire ( one 14L one 16L and around 550mg of wire) in the same active cell.

When applying 80 Watts in both cells, we could measure about 1.5°C temperature difference in favor of the active cell.

Live data streams of new experiments will soon be put online.

  • Jonas

    Significant no matter, but I guess it greatly also depends on what the actual water temperature was..? If e.g. 1,5 degrees in the passive cell, and thus 3 degrees in the active, that’s a 100% more, but if e.g. 98,5 degrees in the passive and 100 in the active, then not so much of a difference. Not enough to make a working product from anyway, but definitely something to develop further. I guess the watt numbers are a good indication – close to 1 percent better performance in the active cell..?

    Good way to go, though, with heating water like that, comparing it to what is then essentially a normal water heater – making it more like in the real world, showing how much you’d save on this ‘super water heater’.

    • Meralph

      1 degree is 1 degree, ain’t gonna change that!

      • Jonas

        Indeed. I got W mixed up with Wh, I guess. 🙂

    • @Jonas,

      To clarify, we have updated the blog to answer your question.

      80W power in was required to raise the control cell’s bath from 20 to 30 degrees, the same 80W applied to the active cell caused its bath to rise around 1.5 degrees higher in these preliminary tests. That is the same order of differential as was seen when trying to maintain the same temperature in both cells respective baths.

      What is interesting is that this is the first time we have 2 active wires in an active cell – though they were only 14L and 16L variants based on the Block Constantan we supplied to Celani for test treatment. We will at some point test 2 far higher layered wires from Celani’s stock wire source in these cells.

      It will also be interesting to test many wires in these cells.


      • Jonas

        Great! I hope I didn’t come off too negative, I’m a huge admirer of your work, your vigor and thoroughness, and – like you say – pretty amazing that this is only with two 14- and 16-layered wires. If no errors – and it shouldn’t be – this is, at the very least, a good proof of concept, something the traditional scientific society seems to have ignored for so long.

        Perhaps it won’t be too long before I can install my first super water heater in the basement – what will you call it? 🙂

        • Job001

          It’s more a matter of focus and bias than being negative. At this point it’s about science rather than consumer product. Likewise those pretend scientists afraid for their jobs deny good science like this and will do so until funding isn’t an issue.

          A 1.5 degree extra rise vs the standard 10 degree rise for a demonstrated 15% LENR result with non-optimum wires. That’s excellent science but inadequate consumer product design basis while bad news for hot fusion jobs, so the bias is well correlated financially.

          Follow the money!

    • LB

      Heat capacity of water in liquid form
      is 4.2J/gK
      That is you will need 4.2J to heat 1 gram of water one degree.
      That is valid for all temperatures as long as the water is a liquid.
      If it’s ice or steam the energy needed falls to about 2J
      (If you want to very accurate then there is som minor changes to the heat capacity at different temperatures in the liquid 4.17-4.2)
      And if you change water to steam you need to add the heat of vaporization wich is 2257 J/g. (Yes 500X higher )
      By the way that is why there was so much controversy about the early tests of Rossi’s device. Was all water vaporized ? Or did some of it pour out as hot water? Minute differences in the amount of steam generation meant success or failure.

      • one reason to have small samples working all in the liquid phase of water. We are nailing parameters and improving the robustness of the research.

        When we have a formulae for protocol and apparatus that delivers consistently – then we can (assuming resources) look at the scaling of the effect and to see if 10 or 100 wires in the same passively heated cell produces a scalar response – with the deep understanding of what controls what and why.

    • Omega Z

      Watson, Come Here. I Need You.

      The 1st Phone message.
      Today, their starting to become the scourge of the world.

  • georgehants

    From PhysOrg
    As potentially game-changing as the steam engine or telegraph were in their day, 3D printing could herald a new industrial revolution, experts say.

  • georgehants

    Admin I appreciate that other than helping to explain why Cold Fusion has been debunked for 24 years this post could be considered “off topic” but I feel that rather than going round in circles discussing Rossi’s report etc. that will mean something only when released and until then all speculation is fun but fruitless, we should do more to help put right the failings that have led Science to the terrible position that it is in regarding Cold Fusion etc.
    Please remove if beyond the fringe.
    For those who may be interested in why Cold Fusion and many subjects are not in the Main-stream.
    The TED debate.
    Reply to Chris Anderson, TED and the TED Community: We’re Halfway There, But…

    • Gerrit

      I like the TED debate, it is not off topic to cold fusion. Thanks for posting

      • georgehants

        Thanks Gerrit, these guys are in exactly the same position as the Cold Fusion people, trying to get science to follow Evidence and Research and not just debunk and deny based on “opinion” from people who have a psychological barrier against the Truth.
        My “opinion” is that logically and sensibly, finding The Truth is the only scientific principle of any worth.
        As a certain scientist once said “everything else is just stamp collecting.

        • GreenWin

          Agree, do to slow e-cat news day. TEDx has censored a scientific subject that it should be pioneering – understanding human consciousness. This will likely become a firing line for defenders of rational materialism.

          In other news: Congresswoman Says Climate Change Driving Women Into Prostitution:

          • GreenWin

            errata; Do should be DUE…

          • Barry

            While we’re waiting for the CF shoe to drop…Deepak Chopra, author of Ageless Body Timeless Mind, sure is getting up in years.

          • Peter Roe

            His flock look after him pretty well though – even if he can’t escape basic biology through mind power.

    • Karl

      Agree. One just wonder what is wrong with us Humans, our organisations and believe systems. Perhaps we need to improve the entire model of how to expand knowledge, not least to improve the probabilities to survive as species.

      • georgehants

        Karl, In the U.K., where I am uniquely qualified to comment as my family spend much time voluntarily transporting elderly patients without transport of their own, to hospitals and clinics etc. there are two and a quarter million unemployed but we can wait 2 hours for a simple blood sample to be taken as there are not enough staff to do the job.
        This applies to almost every area of the Health Service, but more staff cannot be employed as the capitalistic system forbids the employment of labour where it is most necessary for crazy financial reasons.
        It is better to pay the unemployed benefits to do nothing than to remove capitalism and let people be able to work where it is necessary, where most would feel happy that they are contributing to society rather than waiting to be forced into another pointless job made up to massage the employment figures for the government.

        • Karl

          Yes, a set of dogmas seems appears to work in the political sphere in similarity with the main stream scientific world. Human seem to strive to think we need to hold on to certain principles even how crazy they are regardless the amount of blood we see under the nails. Thus, we do not seem to be able to or dare to “think for our self” of how we can create a better and more knowledgeable society.

          • Linda

            Capitalism will kill us all in the end.

          • Roger Bird

            Capitalism will save us all in the end. Please come up with a better system.

        • Roger Bird

          Robin, the only real solution to society’s problems is character and character development. When people realize that virtue IS it’s own reward, when people realize that (platonic) love and caring is inherently wonderful and meaningful, when people realize that spiritual progress is the only thing in life that matters, then we will have a better society. Everything else is merely re-arranging the furniture. This does not mean running away from life; it means bring spiritual values of caring, patience, detachment, responsibility, etc. into life.

          • Jonas


          • clovis

            I listened to a war vet last night on c-span, that had almost the same message, he said that he wanted this to be put on his grave stone,
            I gave all that i could, and that all i had left amounted to nothing.

            You should live life and enjoy it as much as possible, because we can’t take it with us, so try to make each minute count, by helping others, live better.

          • Roger Bird

            clovis, I guarantee that you will be taking your consciousness and your character with you. Better make sure that your character is loving and kind and not mean and angry.

          • GreenWin

            Very well reasoned Roger. Thank you. BTW, I’d like the sofa facing the sun… 🙂

        • theBuckWheat

          “…This applies to almost every area of the Health Service, but more staff cannot be employed as the capitalistic system forbids the employment of labour where it is most necessary for crazy financial reasons….”

          Um, ?? ROFL! Not “capitalism”, but soft socialism. The “crazy financial reasons” are not rational economic calculations of capitalism, but the ideologically driven political reasons. Of course they appear to be irrational!

          What does this have to do with LENR?

          • Roger Bird

            Yes, our disease care system has been soft socialism, with very large and sharp FDA teeth, for a very long time. Doctors, medical schools, the FDA, the CDC, the USDA, the AMA, the ADA, the pharmaceutical companies, and etc. have all been having an orgy of symptom removal and very large paychecks for a long time. Health has NEVER been part of the game.

          • Peter Roe

            The opposite is of course true. Sickness pays their salaries, not health.

          • Roger Bird

            Peter Roe, not everyone is like us. Most people, especially decision makers, keep score by money. They can quantify things by money. Quantifying gives one clarity, even though it is a bogus clarity. Healers don’t make as much money as treaters. Treaters get paid by the same people week after week for very long periods of time. Healer get paid by people for short periods of time. So treaters (who are basically failures) have more money than healers (who are basically successes), and thus treaters (failures) have more power and influence than healers (successes).

          • Peter Roe

            Yes, all agreed. When better, safer ways to health are actively suppressed (FDA, EU Food Standards Agency, codex alimentarius commission etc.) self interest becomes active evil.

  • Roger Bird

    I like it. Finally something from MFMP that doesn’t cause my eyes to roll. And I must admit that I am impressed with their scientific precision. Keep up the good work, you guys.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Roger…I agree MFMP reminds me of the prime number search, while important, if Rossi can prove a COP of six do we need exotic calorimetry to prove LENR?

      • We believe that there should not just be one player in this space, it may be destabilising geopolitically or too open to control, reducing the potential return to the man in the street.

        We know the pace of our learning and we expect that with 100s of people working on this, the iterative power will be very beneficial and bring about the benefits of this technology to more people faster.

        We believe that there is much yet to learn.

        I think there are still people that are missing the point about energy density and scaleability, so, if resources allow, we should focus more effort in that direction following this initial work.

  • georgehants

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    April 29th, 2013 at 6:52 AM
    Dear Mr. Rossi, as you know I have followed your progress from the beginning of your current E-Cat announcements, 2+ years.
    I have defended attacks against yourself and every “scientists” right to not be abused and denied without fair hearing and following only of the Evidence.
    I defend your right to put yourself in a position to gain the most possible from the financial rewards that you deserve from any advancement you make for the benefit of the World.
    BUT every hour that goes by without a complete, undeniable conformation of your technology, delay’s one of the most important uses of the Technology, clean safe, drinkable water for the children of this World.
    I must urge you to forgo all other considerations and put forth the necessary information to allow the fastest possible Research and Development of the Cold Fusion advances you have achieved.
    With the very best wishes as always.

    • georgehants

      Andrea Rossi
      April 29th, 2013 at 7:50 AM
      Dear georgehants:
      you are right, but we did all we had to do: we are manufacturing and delivering our plants and a Third Party Indipendent Test has been done, while its publication I think will be made soon, even if it does not depend on us: as I many times explained, being “indipendent” does not “depend” on us, by obvious definition.
      All I can do is work as much as I can and make all the things that depend on me. About the Attacks against me: 0 x 1000^n = 0
      Warm Regards,

      • “we did all we had to do…”
        Andrea Rossi, I take you at your word that you are doing the best you can do. We are impatient because your technology is VERY IMPORTANT to the world, and yes there are children suffering. It is confusing for us with limited information, however, we trust you need to maintain that secrecy. You give us lots of non secret information – thanks! We will try to be patient for the end results seem to be worth waiting for. jdh

        • Roger Bird

          And don’t forget the children within us that are being battered left and right by our own impatience. Has Rossi no compassion!?!?!?!?

          • -1, unless that was well-placed sarcasm.

          • Roger Bird

            It was insight too deep for you to understand.

    • Giuliano Bettini

      Well said georgehants. 🙂

      • Barry

        +1 Thanks George.

    • Andre Blum

      I am sorry, george, but I find this “I must urge” tone of yours ridiculous beyond words.

      • Kim

        I have tried and tried with the most
        sensitive instruments I have to
        hear a tone in a written text.



        • FlanObrien


      • Jonas

        Perhaps you are over-sensitive, then. I do see a motif for using this kind of language – when urgent enough, using “urge” isn’t very strange at all.

        And, as mentioned in many places elsewhere on this site and others, we must start discussing a different future than that of greed and hate. A world without money and without politics; the emerging technologies of LENR and 3D-printing will not only open the door to this, but urge this development, and we have to be ready. George is right, and we desperately need it. It’s going to happen regardless, and perhaps Rossi’s ‘reluctance to reveal his secrets’ is just the waiting period we need to start maturing into this kind of society.

        • Roger Bird

          Any and all technological changes and improvements will have exactly ZERO impact upon greed and any other spiritual impairment.

          • Jonas

            You think? If I have a device in my house permitting me to build anything I want (theoretically, way into the future) – what greed for other stuff would I have – when there are no ‘other’ stuff? Everything will be attainable for me, for everyone.

            However – land is still something we will fight over, I’m afraid.

          • Roger Bird

            Land, babes, power, ocean front, more babes, friends, fame, even more babes, drugs, health, etc. etc. etc.

          • Yes Roger Bird. Those POWERFUL URGES to eat, drink, and be merry will continue even if we pay less for energy and have more time and money to spend. Some of us will use that extra money wisely! jdh

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    georgehants….While I agree with you “big science” has discredited LENR for their own ego or worse, and I commend you for fighting the good fight, but like the age old science vs religion debate it is my opinion the subject of the TED debate is just too large to discuss on this site. I come to this site for LENR news.

  • buffalo

    yes im highly impressed with the progress at we are doing clear,easy-2-understand data.they must now focus on cramming much more catalyst in the tube,preferably in powder form and heat accordingly.the reason why i say volume of catalyst is important is because only a few percent of it will undergo nuclear reaction at any time.

    • Stay tuned!

      • psi

        Bob, others have already said this, but kudos to you and to the team for your daring, discipline, and focus on this important work!

  • clovis

    Hi, BOB G.
    You and the mf/mp team, are doing real science, and much needed down the dirt data gathering, for all that wants it can and is being used, and to learn what lenr is and how we can use it, keep up the good work, i’m on the edge of my seat, wondering what you guys will discover next, looking forward to the data of the two new cells, great experiment btw.

    • We are discovering stuff all the time – Ryans team seemingly discovered this week the amount of H2 a wire can absorb and has today discovered something really interesting he is preparing a blog for right now!

      Thanks for all your support, it really helps and inspires us.

  • GreenWin

    Congratulations to the MFMP Quantum heat team and these latest series of Celani experiments. You guys are doing great things!

    Couple days ago Forbes, the one business journal that publishes mostly balanced LENR stories printed an article on Small Modular Reactors titled “Thinking Small, Nuclear Power Enters Distributed Era.” While these are old fission plants in a smaller package – the entrance of majors Fluor and B&W into “modular” “Distributed” nukes indicates a significant change. The change is in perception that smaller form factor is better and distributed energy will replace centralized grids.

    This article was followed days later with another bombshell; “Relentless And Disruptive Innovation Will Shortly Affect US Electric Utilities”

    “The Edison report makes it abundantly clear that the game has already changed. Somebody took the old ball and replaced it with a new one. The HBR article suggests that innovators may change the game itself, and without bothering to tell anybody.

    U.S. utilities are probably about to see what other disrupted markets are already grappling with – declining sales volumes, a need for new revenue streams, and a strategic imperative to stay relevant to the customer. “

    Handwriting –> Wall. LENR is here. Commercial. Disruptive.

    • georgehants

      Where would we be if the administration announced that it was making special effort, because of it’s clear humanitarian importance to fast-rail the certification on the E-Cat. (if safe)

    • Roger Bird

      The report did not take into consideration LENR, IMHO. I read the whole Forbes article/ The price of solar for the 4 years preceding last summer dropped more than 77%. That is like a clearance sale on steroids. Even I, a big LENR fan and supporter, am playing with the notion of buying solar. This is not a hit about LENR. But it will pave the way for LENR.

      I am wondering when people will begin to realize that AC is unnecessary and that they will want to switch their appliances to DC.

      • GreenWin

        Roger, you are correct, the acronym LENR does not appear. However, were the story and warnings solely about solar, they would put solar in the title. This is a clear warning to the business community that new technology is coming and it makes the yard sale on solar panels look like… a yard sale.

        The first article spells out the end of big, centralized, grid-dependent power stations (they’re a century old after all.) The second article spells out the introduction of new, disruptive energy technology that makes solar panels with 7-9% efficiency look pitiful.

        Interesting thing about warnings; you can take ’em or leave ’em. As I have commented, LENR is here. Utilities can live it, or live with it.

        • psi

          I feel like I have a front row seat in this show. Watching the way the market seems to be prepping for LENR is a bit like reading the tea leaves, and every bit as fascinating. : )

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Frank AcIand
    April 29th, 2013 at 3:36 PM
    Dear Andrea,

    You mention that the low temperature 1 MW E-Cat plant that will be delivered to your partner is going to provide industrial heat. Will this be at your partner’s site, or at the site of a different customer?

    Many thanks,

    Frank AcIand

    Andrea Rossi
    April 29th, 2013 at 3:47 PM
    Dear Frank AcIand:
    It will integrate the heat of a heat centralized distribution facility.
    Warm Regards,

    Many old universities have “centralized heat distribution” via underground steam tunnels.

    • Stuey81

      So, will this be at your pa rtners site, or a different customer?…. Answer the question and stop dodging it rossi!

      • Roger Bird

        Stuey81, he doesn’t have to answer ess ache eye tee. Peer pressure won’t do a thing.

  • Roger Bird

    The Sun has risen.

  • Miles

    The Movie SIRIUS has been released on youtube – Interesting to see how Martin Fleischmann has been mentioned in the film along with other free energy technologies. Interesting movie & government suppression and corruption.

    • GreenWin


    • Peter Roe

      Now taken down for copyright infringement – dammit!

  • Roger Bird

    Ok, so the Forbes article said that solar panels have dropped in price something like 77%. Wow, gee wiz, golly, I am so excited. But the article did NOT say that the price of solar panel installation has dropped 77%. I called a solar company because I was so excited. And I got a ballpark figure of $15,000 to $20,000 to cover my $52.13 electric bill. This is exactly the ballpark I got years ago. No drop whatsoever in the real world.

    • h_corey

      lol, sounds like you are getting shafted. Call a different company.

      • Roger Bird

        I’ll try that.

        • GreenWin

          Roger, this is what I was talking about. The article is NOT about solar panels. They’re still very inefficient, expensive (esp to install) and suck when the sun don’t shine.

          The Forbes stories are euphemisms for cold fusion. The wording telegraphs that rather clearly IMO.

          “Somebody took the old ball and replaced it with a new one. The HBR (Harvard Business Review) article suggests that innovators may change the game itself, and without bothering to tell anybody.”

          Hello?? Dr. Fleischmann, I presume?

      • Omega Z


        If Only the Markets really worked that way.
        Cheaper wholesale price don’t always translate to cheaper consumer prices. In Fact sometimes consumer price can increase.

        • Peter Roe

          This may well apply when utility companies are installing CF boilers as their primary power source. “Regrettably we are unable to reduce consumer prices at present due to ongoing conversion costs aimed at reducing our greenhouse gas emissions to zero” (Trans.: You do want to save the planet don’t you? – well it’s goin’ to cost ya!)

          • Omega Z


            A Portion of which is totally reasonable.
            Concern follows that period.

            Couple decades ago Chrysler required pay cuts to salvage the company & pay back Government loans. Said These Cuts will be rescinded once these loans are payed off & the company is stable.

            Fair Enough to keep the Jobs.
            However once the Company reached it’s goals, the rescind didn’t occur. The pay was regained only by Negotiation/Bargaining.
            An Opportunity for long term trust between Company & Employees was lost. They wonder why people are so cynical.

  • Roger Bird

    What do hot-fusion and the war on cancer have in common?

  • Roger Bird

    In 1810, most people were self-sufficient. And if dependency upon others, like a business, became a problem, then they just left that problem dependency and moved west and became independent. Now, people are mostly dependent upon businesses or government (or both). And the current fight between conservatives and liberals is really one of conservatives disingenuously saying, “Be free” which is really a way of saying “be dependent upon business.” And liberals saying, “hey, those mean ol’ businesses are bad; be dependent upon government.”

    Then there are others who are saying, in effect, “Be self sufficient. You will be happier.” These self-sufficient advocates include libertarians, slow food advocates, raw milk advocates, LENR fans, natural healing advocates, yogis, etc., etc., etc.

    But what changed between 1810 and now that would cause us to be more dependent upon these undemocratic institutions that want us to be dependent upon them? We became more materialistic and we wanted more material goodies. No business can sell something to a meditating yogi. The meditating yogi is emotionally self-sufficient. He eats raw milk and honey. The frontier farmer makes his/her own food and doesn’t need corporations or the government. But we can’t live without our cellphones and computers and juicers and really cool cars and homes and drugs (legal or otherwise). And thus they enslave us by making us dependent upon large corporations and/or government. And the fight between conservative and liberal is a bogus fight. One side is in effect telling you to choose being dependent upon government, and the other side is telling you to choose being dependent upon corporations. What is the freaking difference, particularly since big corporations and government have been in bed so long that they have merged. And yet people will still get worked up about “government!!” or “big business!!”.

    • Hampus

      I also believe that we should become more self reliant but the will always need others for somethings, be it medicin or education or other. Then one can ask themselves which is more democratic, big business or government? Government is our way to make a collective force on society, but goverment can’t do what business can. Maybe we need them both.

    • Karl

      I think you nailed the current Human situation at least in the “democratic” part of the world, where we at least is given the impression that we can “choose” our masters, quite nice.
      One problem with the guys and girls we select “locally – in each country” is that they are in fact often quite toothless and mostly dependent of the corporations that in comparison are floating and acting without any borders.
      It seems nowadays we as Humans are getting increasingly decimated by politicians and corporations more and more to a passive role of a dumb consumer. FREE to select the products and services offered – is that all there is? Going this road into extreme – one could finally come up with the idea of replacing Humans with a consuming robot?

    • FlanObrien

      Excellent summary Roger.

      “..can’t live without our cellphones and computers and juicers and really cool cars and homes and drugs”.

      With abundant energy available and reasonable healthy living (fresh food+exercise), the only essential in that list is a computer. My cellphone was stolen recently and actually it is good riddance – I now pay full attention to people and my surroundings. If one is monogamous and attached, why the need for cellphones?

      • Peter Roe

        There is a simple solution to the cellphone problem – acquire something off ebay (or from a young relative) that is so outmoded that no-one under 50 would normally be seen dead with it. I own such a phone – I can talk to people, even take low grade pictures – and that’s about all. It costs me about £20 a year on ‘pay as you go’ and won’t get stolen, but it still means I can call a rescue service if my car engine explodes in the wee small hours, when I am still 50 miles from home (it’s happened before).

        • psi

          Peter, that’s what I do. An excellent solution.

    • Roger Bird on April 30, 2013 at 3:56 am:

      “In 1810, most people were self-sufficient. And if dependency upon others, like a business, became a problem, then they just left that problem dependency and moved west and became independent. …”

      Harumph. People were NOT that self-sufficient, even then.

      They didn’t make their own steel, which means they didn’t cast or otherwise ‘make’ their own pots and pans or knives. And that includes Flintlocks or muskets too.

      Nor did they make their own rope, nor ‘spin’ their own cloth for clothes.

      So much for being independent, huh …


      • Roger Bird

        Steel was not invented until much later.

        Perhaps I should say that people were more independent, and they were more likely to know the people they were dependent upon. Of the people I am dependent upon, I personally know exactly zero. Jefferson would have known who he bought his eggs from. Very few of the people, if any, he was dependent upon did he not know.

        Being human beings, we have to be dependent upon someone. But it helps to know them. My eggs comes from who knows where. I don’t know the people at my grocery store. I don’t know who owns the grocery store. I could go on and on. I barely know my dentist.

  • pg


  • Aqua

    Today is the day?

    Low Expectations, High Hopes
    Either way it goes, Ill probably end up drunk

    • Peter Roe

      Maybe we’ll get a few more nice pictures of the big blue container in transit. I doubt that anything else of significance will emerge today. To be fair, Rossi has not actually promised anything except some pictures, so really there isn’t all that much to get excited about just yet.

      For myself, excitement will be appropriate when:

      (1) The 3rd party report is published (moderate excitement and a large bottle of weissbier)

      (2) An independent observer confirms that a 1MW LT e-cat is in service and working well (high excitement and a bottle of good wine) or

      (3) An independent observer confirms that a hot cat electricity generator is installed and is producing power for a grid (ecstatic excitement and massive over-consumption of fizzy).

      • GreenWin

        Careful now… for the right sack of ducets, one could produce an independent observer simply to indulge option 3.

        However, I shall imbibe in the good bottle on confirmation of a fully functioning industrial plant delivering heat.

  • Peter Roe

    Off Topic, but things are very quiet (the lull before the storm perhaps – one way or another):

    “UPower wins FutureEnergy

    Out of over 100 entrants, UPower won the FutureEnergy pitch contest–receiving votes from over 80% of the voting respondents. In addition to the recognition and cash prize, the overall winner received a range of other awards including legal time, office space, entrance into the CleanTech Open contest, and more. The media took notice as well. Below are some articles about the competition.

    Featured and quoted on MIT Nuclear Science and Engineering site article: “NSE Teams Sweep Pitch Competition”-

    The MIT Entrepreneurship Center featured and quoted UPower in this article on the front page of their site: …”

    UPower is apparently a compact fission reactor that requires very little maintenance over its lifetime. It is not clear whether it is much more than a concept at present, but would seem to be doomed by LENR anyway. At least it wasn’t the ‘smart network’ people with the dubious voting patterns.

    • GreenWin

      Peter, this corroborates the mainstream move to SMRs, exemplified in the Forbes article linked to yesterday:

      Seems the energy industry has seen the light on district and distributed energy sources – also predicted by the Edison Electric Inst. and coined Distributed Energy Resources – DERs. This is IMO a begrudging acknowledgment that small, distributed energy technology is here. Next will be the acknowledgment that LENR is the prime player.

      • Peter Roe

        I suppose the UPower win could also be read as fission’s last stand – something that could ostensibly compete with hot cat reactors in DER systems (it couldn’t, for many reasons, without massive subsidies), but of course could never be made safe enough for private or small scale use and so is only a limited threat to the old order. If such a thing could be made to work, the argument might be ‘we must use this, as it is proven technology, but cold fusion is an unknown and may present unsuspected dangers’ (you may need a sense of irony to work in psyops I think).

        • Roger Bird

          I admit that the Forbes article was probably a warning about LENR. After all, even while reading the article, before calling my local solar installer, I noticed that the article said that the panels were much cheaper, not that the installation was cheaper. And I am not even close to business savvy. But, even still, everything that was said in the article also applies to solar, wind, and other efficiency improvements. Otherwise that article would not have made any sense to anyone who is not paying attention.

          And the article kept referring to innovations that we don’t even know about yet. Hmmmm…..

    • Omega Z

      UPower, a company founded by MIT students and alumni,

      They had their foot in the door. I suspected they had a high probability to win because of connections. Them or another team with very similar connections.

  • georgehants

    The Guardian
    Beware the rise of the government scientists turned lobbyists
    From badgers to bees, government science advisers are routinely misleading us to support the politicians’ agendas.

    • Peter Roe

      Every now and then someone lifts the lid on festering government corruption of this kind, and Monbiot has done a partcularly good job here. But tomorrow it will be business as usual with our politicians and their cronies surrepticiously promoting the interests of the drugs, pharma and nuclear cartels at the expense of the rest of us.

      From Monbiot’s article, this just about says it all:

      “Less than a month into the job, Sir Mark Walport has misinformed the public about the scientific method, risk and uncertainty. He has made groundless, unscientific and emotionally manipulative claims. He has indulged in scaremongering and wild exaggeration in support of the government’s position.

      In defending science against political pressure, he is, in other words, as much use as a suit of paper armour. For this reason, he’ll doubtless remain in post, and end his career with a peerage. The rest of us will carry the cost of his preferment.”

      Perhaps we need to ask why the govt. is so dead keen on keeping neonicotinoids in the first place.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, What is the answer, on these pages I write that in science, Truth is the only worthwhile principle.
        I truly believe that almost nobody knows what I am taking about.
        The idea seems to be so alien that it is incomprehensible.
        Wonderful sunny day here though.

        • Peter Roe

          Morning George. If I was in any way cynical (perish the thought) I might even conclude that self interest trumps truth in almost every walk of life, but particularly in politics – in its broadest sense.

          Sleazy corrupt ‘influence’ seems to be the rule in elite circles and it seems that almost nobody has the integrity to resist – least of all, politicians and those who serve them. I suppose they have to look after their unofficial pensions as their careers tend to be relatively short once they are seen to be putting their sponsors’ agendas into effect.

          As to the answer, only shining light into every dark crevice seems to have any effect. Unfortunately it is something that has to be done on a perpetual basis, as almost by definition politics attracts the worst sort of people, with no moral guidance of their own, requiring their actions to be continuously scrutinised from outside.

          As Monbiot says in his article: “What happens to people when they become government science advisers? Are their children taken hostage? Is a dossier of compromising photographs kept, ready to send to the Sun if they step out of line?” Of course this also applies to all senior politicians, scientific administrators, all media executives and many other positions of power and influence.

          Its a lovely day here in Sunny Somerset, too – AND warm enough to work outside without 3 layers of clothing!

          • GreenWin

            Bit jealous of the warmth you Brits are enjoying. Here in the North West of U.S.A. we are shrouded in cold, grey, dare I say, English weather.

            And Monbiot is right except that the dossiers and compromising photos appear only when the flunk…er, employee make trouble. Until then there is only the daunting presence of a Damoclesian sword hanging above. Of course, regular beheadings reinforce the sword’s intent and purpose.

            Sounds positively Medieval doesn’t it?

          • Peter Roe

            The question of course, is who is holding the other end of the sword. Not Damocles I think.

          • GreenWin

            Possibly the same clan who dismiss the present & historical state of our neighbors??


          • Peter Roe

            Thanks for the link. I was aware of many of the pics proving water and plant life on Mars but haven’t seen them all together in one place. Fascinating site – I ended up spending an hour there.

            Just the ‘airbrushing’ evidence is enough to confirm that there are things on Mars and the moon that somebody wants not to be generally known. There is no other conceivable reason for tampering with the raw images in this way. Psychotic behaviour enacted by powerful individuals within NASA, JPL, ESA for reasons unknown.

          • GreenWin

            I had the same experience. And hoped you would comment on the subject. If you are on the e-catworld Forum, we might continue it under a thread there. I’m especially taken with the biological implications.

  • Omega Z

    LENR will drastically reduce CO2

    LENR Desalinization will allow desolate barren Farm land to once again become Productive.

    All this new plant growth will absorb Huge amounts of CO2.

    30 years from now I see a Major CO2 Problem.
    There wont be enough. Plants will suffocate.

    • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

      A CO2 problem we can manage. Just combine O2 and C in a reactor powered by the Hot Cat, and balance the CO2 levels at 250ppm and keep it there.

      • Omega Z

        Or they can do what some of the Old Time U.S. farmers used to do. Controlled burns reducing the need for fertilizers, Pesticides & herbicides & releasing the CO2.

  • Omega Z

    There’s 1 important aspect I would like to see people take from the MFMP Project.

    It is neither a Simple, Cheap nor Easy to achieve Technology.

    I’m Sure Bob Greenyer & his team can attest to that. Their results have been hard won with much effort with Celani’s collaboration.
    I wish them success.

    • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

      And if high temperatures can be achieved open source, then we don’t have to depend on Rossi, Defkalion or Brillouin’s secretive ways, which are getting excessive.

      • Omega Z


        I Fully believe that the Lack of IP will delay the product to consumer market by 30 years or so. No one invests large sums of money into a money pit. And LENR will likely require hundreds of Billions to be brought to the masses.

        The Lack of IP will destine LENR to the Big Energy Companies. Not to the people.

        I’m totally open to discuss the Length of time/conditions IP is in force. Once product sales begin, there should be a reasonable time limit or return level to end the IP rights.

        You buy a new car with a specific Warranty to assure you get reasonable use of that vehicle for your investment before problems arise.

        IP Protection should be no different. A Reasonable guarantee that you will recover your investment & a Reasonable return on the investment. Once a certain point is reached, your on your own. Just as the Car owner is.

        • Roger Bird

          I would agree (or disagree) if I knew what “IP” meant. Does it mean “Internet Protocol”? How about “Industrial Patent”? How about “International Poontang”? The last one would be my choice.

          • John Littlemist


            Intellectual Property

          • Omega Z


            Limitations on “Poontang”

            That’s Crazy Talk. Moderation for You! 🙂

        • In a conversation with Celani on Monday, he says that parameters are being worked through, when the evidence is robust beyond doubt and scaleability determined the manufacturer of the wire is extremely capable to produce very large quantities of it and distribute it globally.

          Access to a refined economical base material of known ability per unit will enable large numbers of companies to design around it in the same way that people do around ARM Holdings CPU cores, potentially on the same kind of licence to manufacture basis also.

          This is the right way to build a global industry. A wire manufacturer is not necessarily best placed to make every device that uses energy, it is way too multi-disciplinary.

  • georgehants

    The Daily Energy Report
    Is the “Weak Force” the Key to LENR?
    by David Niebauer
    Posted on Tuesday, April 30th, 2013

    • GreenWin

      The author is a M&A attorney representing Brillouin Energy Corp.. The campaign to prove the old school “correct” in stating fusion cannot happen as P&F discovered – continues here, based on Widom Larsen.

      This spin will not survive as it attempts to move the goal posts out of the stadium. ALL the signature products of classical fusion are present in the variety of CF experiments. The claim that physicists “were right all along” is pure orthodox bullsheit. IF enlightenment is to expand, those who so brutally dismissed P&F need to face themselves and admit – they were wrong.

      It’s okay to be wrong. 🙂

  • RonB

    The Celani wire ran in the V1.0 cells (Mica and Macor) very well could have been producing excess power (as some of us believed). One of the interesting things is that they seemed to produce larger excess power as time went on. If this really is the case then the new cell should continue to provide even more excess power as whatever mechanism that causes it has time to evolve.