E-Cat Licensee Situation (Mats Lewan)

The following information was provided to me by Mats Lewan and is published here with his permission. I had asked him if he was aware of the current situation with Hydro Fusion, Swedish E-Cat Licensee who operate the ecat.com website.

As far as I know Hydrofusion is still a licensee with good relations to Rossi.
Rossi has discussed the idea of a production pool of E-Cat technology in Sweden for a long time, and I have the impression that this idea is still possible.
There don’t seem to be much going on right now though – Hydrofusion will probably also have to wait until the 1 MW plant for IH’s customer is stable and running, before any further steps can be taken.
This is the picture I have.

By the way, regarding the buy-back offer.

In the beginning of 2014 I asked several of Rossi’s licensees about this. One of them confirmed that the offer was the amount invested plus 10 percent, which Rossi also told me, and that the majority of the licensees had turned it down at that time.

Another licensee confirmed that it had accepted the offer, together with “some licensees”.

At the time I asked Rossi if the offer had been sent also to Ampenergo and Hydrofusion, and he answered that the offer had been sent to “all licensees”.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Plus ten percent does not sound very motivated.
    It sounds more like an effort to calm the discontented, so that they could withdraw in good relations.
    A peace offering and sign of good faith.

  • Fortyniner

    Dumping one or more licensees such as Prometion but retaining others wouldn’t make much commercial sense. If HydroFusion is still on board it may be because they have come to some other arrangement that doesn’t conflict with new ownership and business models (conversion of license to shares?). ‘Just business’ as they say – a poor offer gets rid of the majority of licensees at low cost – threats of unilateral uncompensated revocation are made to non-takers, further reducing the pool – individual settlements are negotiated with a few remaining tougher nuts.

    • Freethinker

      We don’t know who is behind the IH front.It could be e.g. Vattenfall, and they may have chosen to work with Hydrofusion in Sweden, hence their position may be different. There are an almost infinity of reasons, and we can thus only speculate.

      Be things as they may, and regardless of the uproar around Prometeon’s situation, it is really nothing strange or unexpected what has happened. It is a natural flow of affairs since Rossi let IH take control of the IP.

      • Omega Z

        Hydrofusion actually has more to offer in association with IH then just a sales distribution point. With their Education degrees & contacts, they could be of value in opening an additional R&D center.
        Being a new technology, there will obviously be many new avenues to research & exploit.

        If IH just licenses the technology for manufacture, they will have no need for a sale distribution network.

    • Omega Z

      Kind of like anyone looking for a business association. What do you bring to the table
      What benefit is there to us from your association.
      Is that it. OK, Goodbye,
      Is that it. OK, Goodbye,
      Hmm, Interesting lets talk.

      I’m curious now as to the Australian E-Cat. Their site is still up & up to date like Hydro Fusion.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Because it was not an effort to dump relationships.
      If some partners were discontent and there was an implication that delays implied that the investment might not be sound, an open offer of 110 percent is an assurance that the partnership is not a swindle, especially after some discontented partners have profited.

  • georgehants

    “I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended
    upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.”
    – Abraham Lincoln, 16th President of the United States, 1809-1865

    • Ophelia Rump

      I am fairly certain that politicians do not believe in real facts. I would include Lincoln in that.

  • A 10% dividend after all that waiting is nothing. A 20% to 50% dividend would be more reasonable for buying back a license after that much waiting time. Time is money.

    • Warthog

      LOL. Try to find an investment instrument (CD, bank account, whatever) that yields 10%.

      Ten percent is a darned GOOD return.

      • They have been waiting years, not just one year. They spent money setting up a business that they will never have. You would not be dancing up and down if you were in that situation.

        • mcloki

          True but IH could have left them high and dry. New business owners, new business model. If it was a scam they would have just strung them along.

          • I never implied that it was a scam. I just stated the fact that it is not a happy time for these people. Starting a new business is dangerous, but if Industrial heat had deeper pockets, I would have offered more money to avoid hurt feelings.

          • Omega Z

            The proposed buy back was initiated as soon as IH came on board, So no one was delaying the implementation. This is more above board then it initially appears. It’s the business model has changed.

            I find it very probably that IH is not going to manufacture E-cats beyond pilot plant systems for R&D purposes. If this is the case, this is the best outcome for the licensees.

            If IH licenses only for Manufacturing, such as GE/Siemens, They can not dictate to them who or how sales & distribution will be handled.

        • Warthog

          I’d put it at more nearly eighteen months, which is NOT an unreasonable period, given the “newness” of the technology. And you are assuming that the 10% is for the life of investment, rather than per year, which is how ROI is usually expressed.

          And no, I wouldn’t be all that well pleased, but I know enough about business to know “thems the breaks”. There are no guarantees….”you pays your money and takes your chances”. I’ve been screwed over more than once (licensing technology), and successful more than once.

        • Omega Z

          Waiting about 2 years. CD’s paying less the 1%. But under the circumstances, 20% would be more fitting.

          • If you buy a CD for $100,000, then that is your total cost plus any taxes on generated interest income. If you buy a license to start a business selling a product, you have to rent an office, get phone lines, computer lines, hire employees, contact people, travel, and stop the other work you are doing. All that costs money, which makes a 10% dividend pretty trivial compared to your expenses and efforts.

          • Omega Z

            Most of these licensees already are in business & this was an addition to it. Their biggest expense would be a Web site and actual time directly involved with potential clients.

            One Major Exception would be Roger Green of E-cat Australia. With his arrangement, I would expect he had substantial out of pocket expense involved. However, he may be 1 of the exceptions still connected.

    • Frechette

      If I got 10% on my money with minimal risk I’d be in seventh heaven.

  • No actual loss of money they got back their deposit plus higher than the bank interest rate, if they had put their money in any other business, such as say renting out property, that would be considered a good rate of return. Those who accepted the deal certainly thought so.

    No way anyone can claim fraud.

    IH clearly think they need bigger partners who will bring more to the table.

    Those with the bigger pockets are staying.

    • It is not fraud, but it is not generous. I would not be happy with that return, and the license holders spent their own money doing all the things needed to get customers. They are not getting that money back with this deal.

      • Ronzonni

        If Rossi is right, the licenses are worth billions. So no, it’s not generous!

  • pg

    It’s business. It’s ruthless. Happens all the time.
    The fact that it’s not fair (and it’s not) is irrelevant.
    Let’s move on.

  • Paul

    I know Aldo Proia and once told me that his license was canceled by EFA for failure to achieve the sales target, but he could not reach the target because the product was not available. He was really angry for this misbehaviour and told me that no honest person behaves in this way. He added that he had contacted Industrial Heat but he never received a response, so he did not want to have more to do with this kind of people.