Making E-Cats in the Garage (or on the Couch)

I thought this exchange today here between Mike Ivanov and Mats002 summarized nicely what we might start seeing as a result of the work of Alexander Parkhomov. If you look closely at the picture below from Parkhomov’s report you will see that the experimental setup appears to be in a living room.

parkhomovcouch

Mike Ivanov:

After Parkhomov experiment I start thinking to build home heater based on this design, for personal usage. Heating is very expensive in Canada….

Mats002:

Yes why not? I hope Rossi/IH will be very successful with industry but in the mean time garage tinkerers might be setting the stage for domestic use. My concern is safety. Some parts might better be prepared by professionals

Mike Ivanov:

It could be already a good time for smart entrepreneur to start selling DIY kits online. heating wires, ceramic pipes, Hi, Li, etc – nothing special so far.

This is the way many technological revolutions have begun…

  • kenko

    So what do we NOT need to get this heater running? Geiger counter, computer, recording/measuring devices? Suggestions please.

    • Warthog

      I urge caution, both from a chemical and radiological safety standpoint (I am a chemist with a bit of radiochemical background). I am just reading Mats Lewan’s book (excellent! and explains many of the “incomprehenisble” jigs and jags the Rossi story has taken…highly recommended), and in the early days of the Rossi/Focardi collaboration, in one runaway excursion experiment Rossi “did” see neutrons. So apparently there are different pathways the reaction can take with more and different radioactivity formed.

      • No.
        Levi told to the reporter a second hand account of Focardi:
        when one of the first e-cat exploded they had bubbles on the neutron detection gel. But the shockwave of the explosion could have caused them too.

        Given we do not hear about neutrons (or dead people) in the last few years, neutron production is, at worst, trascurable or, better, not existant.

  • wpj

    I wouldn’t like to see Joe Public playing about with lithium aluminium hydride even if they could get it ; I’ve seen one undergraduate set it on fire in a nitrogen filled glove box! Even nickel can ignite when dry depending how it is made. It’s going to be easier to get the equipment than the chemicals.

    I am also doubtful on the dog/bone replication if they only have water based cement as it won’t take much water to destroy it (can’t understand the use of argon then air then wet cement either).

    • Mats002

      I agree on the safety issue. Like computer builders in the early 80:s had to buy the CPU, the sealed core with Nickel powder and LiAlH4 (or whatever used, I guess there are many possible solutions) should be bought from professionals with all the knowledge and safety procedures in place. There might be more issues as well.

  • wpj

    I wouldn’t like to see Joe Public playing about with lithium aluminium hydride even if they could get it ; I’ve seen one undergraduate set it on fire in a nitrogen filled glove box! Even nickel can ignite when dry depending how it is made. It’s going to be easier to get the equipment than the chemicals.

    I am also doubtful on the dog/bone replication if they only have water based cement as it won’t take much water to destroy it (can’t understand the use of argon then air then wet cement either).

    • Mats002

      I agree on the safety issue. Like computer builders in the early 80:s had to buy the CPU, the sealed core with Nickel powder and LiAlH4 (or whatever used, I guess there are many possible solutions) should be bought from professionals with all the knowledge and safety procedures in place. There might be more issues as well.

    • SG

      The NI powder and LiAlH4 can be provided in a sealed vessel as part of a kit. With fairly extensive testing since 2011, radiation readings are in line with the background (i.e., no harmful radiation detected outside of the vessel). A microwave oven emits harmful radiation, but not toward the outside of the oven. While safety is important, it should not be used as a tool by entrenched interests to impede the introduction of a technology that has the potential to lift billions of people out of poverty.

  • I think MFMP has the potential to start a spin-off (maybe non-profit like raspberry pi embedded computers which were intended for third world countries and education purposes) company which produces such kits and cartridges of powder. So the customers don’t have contact to the toxic credentials.

    • Omega Z

      It may be best suited for University lab tests. I believe that was MFMP’s original intention. Kits for lab tests. Multiply duplication of data.

      I don’t think home kits are a good Idea. I’d hate to see the home heater regulated out of personal ownership before it ever had a chance because people got careless.

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      Arduino, etc…

  • I think MFMP has the capability to start a spin-off (maybe non-profit like raspberry pi embedded computers which were intended for third world countries and education purposes) company which produces such kits and cartridges of powder. So the customers don’t get in contact with the toxic ingredients.

    • Omega Z

      It may be best suited for University lab tests. I believe that was MFMP’s original intention. Kits for lab tests. Multiply duplication of data.

      I don’t think home kits are a good Idea. I’d hate to see the home heater regulated out of personal ownership before it ever had a chance because people got careless.

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      Arduino, etc…

  • guest

    How is the reactor able to sit in his living room at such high temp?

    • Ged

      The water. Gotta boil it all off first, otherwise the heat of vaporization absorbs the excess energy and does not allow temps in the room to rise much. Probably no different than a water heater, and less than wood stove.

      • Curbina

        I find it sensational to see science being done in a simple yet robust way. However, and precisely regarding the calorimetry, and even more precisely regarding the wet/dry steam chat we had the other day, there is already a “Know it all” anonymous skeptic bugging Peter Gluck in his last blog’s comment section. http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2014/12/lean-lenr-research.html

      • Mike Henderson

        In the event of a runaway reaction, the 2000+ degree blob of fire would burn through the bottom and head for the center of the earth.

        If you try this trick at your apartment, check with your downstairs neighbors first.

        • Ged

          Haha, so true! Definitely one of those “don’t try this at home” disclaimers is very needed.

          • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

            I wouldn’t do this in my living room. I might do it in my basement or in a garage, over a concrete floor. The biggest danger is not from the heat, but from blast. The interior pressure is large. However, the volume is small. As someone has pointed out, this has about as much energy as a pistol bullet, but a pistol bullet is designed to transfer that energy to motion, the explosion being confined. There is no explosive mixture in the cylinder. When activate, this is a hydrogen pressure cylinder. If the containment fails, it might create some shrapnel. There would not be great force behind it. So the steel box and the bucket would contain it. Some stuff might blow through the lid. It would not have enough energy to penetrate a floor, for example. It would make a mess.

            An early home cold fusion experimenter decided to recycle his heavy water by having a spark above the electrolysis, so the evolved deuterium and oxygen would burn. He blew it all over the ceiling of his room. And, of course, there was an incident at SRI where they were running closed cells (as they usually did, then and later) and the recombiner got wet and failed, and a researcher picked it up, jarring the water off the recombiner, and it then worked, all at once, and the cell exploded from overpressure, killing him and leaving glass in McKubre’s body, if I recall correctly. Closed cells can be dangerous, and the Parkhomov experiment is intrinsically a closed cell. So be ready for it to explode. At SRI, after this, all work was done behind blast shields, if I’m correct. These would not be powerful explosions, particularly. But all it takes is a piece of shrapnel with a bit of velocity, and the human body is fragile. You can get a much worse explosion from a malfunctioning hot water heater….

        • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

          There is a lot we don’t know yet. However, what is likely at this point is that if the device gets to 1500 C or so., the nickel melts and the reaction is quenched. So far, at least, nobody is reporting anomalous heat from liquid nickel. If it manages to get hot enough to melt through the steel box (I don’t know how Parkhomov suspends it in the box, but I don’t think it is in direct contact with the steel), it will drop into water and cool rapidly. We think that the reaction needs well over 600 C to be sustained.

    • Achi

      Even if it was exposed to air, it is similar to having a small space heater in the room, it would only heat up the room temperature by a few degrees.

    • Omega Z

      A common propane/air flame burns at about 2,000 °C (3,630 °F) and an acetylene/oxygen flame burns at about 3,500 °C (6,330 °F).

      Neither 1 warms up a room very much or fast. Tho very hot, the overall heat output isn’t that much when dispersed over a large area.

    • Obvious

      He’s not married?

    • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

      The bucket is at boiling point, at most. The input power is 500 W peak. The output is under 1500 watts additional. This is Russia in the winter. The power here is similar to an electric room heater. The room will get a little steamy, just as if one leaves a pot of water boiling on a stove. Evaporating 1.5 kg of water in an hour or so, I do that on a stove when I forget it…. So the windows get drippy….

  • Warthog

    I urge caution, both from a chemical and radiological safety standpoint (I am a chemist with a bit of radiochemical background). I am just reading Mats Lewan’s book (excellent! and explains many of the “incomprehenisble” jigs and jags the Rossi story has taken…highly recommended), and in the early days of the Rossi/Focardi collaboration, in one runaway excursion experiment Rossi “did” see neutrons. So apparently there are different pathways the reaction can take with more and different radioactivity formed.

    • No.
      Levi told to the reporter a second hand account of Focardi:
      when one of the first e-cat exploded they had bubbles on the neutron detection gel. But the shockwave of the explosion could have caused them too.

      Given we do not hear about neutrons (or dead people) in the last few years, neutron production is, at worst, trascurable or, better, not existant.

    • Fyodor

      the other thing is that unless Rossi comes out with some sort of broadly available commercial product (which doesn’t sound like his model), real acceptance will only come from broadly reproducible experiments. That’s what will open the floodgates to popular belief and the funding/research that comes with it.

      • Obvious

        I will be testing an RS-230 super spec. It is made for U, Th, and K decay measurement, but is pretty sensitive, and records a downloadable gamma spectra, in instant readings and a continuous log. It can detect a banana in a box of silica sand.

  • Ged

    The water. Gotta boil it all off first, otherwise the heat of vaporization absorbs the excess energy and does not allow temps in the room to rise much. Probably no different than a water heater, and less than wood stove.

    • Curbina

      I find it sensational to see science being done in a simple yet robust way. However, and precisely regarding the calorimetry, and even more precisely regarding the wet/dry steam chat we had the other day, there is already a “Know it all” anonymous skeptic bugging Peter Gluck in his last blog’s comment section. http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2014/12/lean-lenr-research.html

  • This is a Jobs-Wozniak moment.

  • Ged

    Haha, so true! Definitely one of those “don’t try this at home” disclaimers is very needed.

  • Fyodor

    the other thing is that unless Rossi comes out with some sort of broadly available commercial product (which doesn’t sound like his model), real acceptance will only come from broadly reproducible experiments. That’s what will open the floodgates to popular belief and the funding/research that comes with it.

  • Obvious

    I will be testing an RS-230 super spec. It is made for U, Th, and K decay measurement, but is pretty sensitive, and records a downloadable gamma spectra, in instant readings and a continuous log. It can detect a banana in a box of silica sand.
    I have also an RS-125, a few RS-120’s, and some old but highly effective GR-110’s available that I can try. My ‘calorimetry’ will be burn-through of a kiln floor. The mass vaporized will be compared to dummy runs that should just get as hot as the oven. If the device only gets hotter than the oven, that would be OK too.