ICCF19 — Live Thread (Update #10: Conference Wrap-up from Cold Fusion Now)

UPDATE #10 (April 23)

There’s a very nice article on Cold Fusion Now here (http://coldfusionnow.org/iccf-19-start-of-new-cycle/) which provides a wrap-up of the week’s events in Padua, with highlights and impressions from many of the conference attendees. It’s well worth a read. I found it interesting that there were four countries vying for the privilege of holding the next meeting (reminded me of bidding for the Olympics), and the decision was made to hold the next meeting in Japan and China — beginning at Tohaku University and ending with a ‘satellite’ meeting at Xiamen University in China. I’m not sure exactly how that will work, but I think it’s quite significant that there is so much competition for the conference now.

UPDATE #9 (April 17)

Live from Padua Italy is a new MFMP test using a GlowStick with Parkhomov fuel — live video is below:

Part 5 of the videocast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p_HuXjtDic&feature=youtu.be

Part 4 of the videocast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWaigmpCvu0

Part 3 of the videocast:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/cm76o8PMtyE

Part 2 of the videocast:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Fv7s3XKjHQs

Part 1 of the videocast:

Direct link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr3fd3PFx8U&feature=youtu.be

Bob Greenyer says that screengrabs will be posted in this folder: http://bit.ly/1CUhCyl

UPDATE #8 (April 17)

Alan Smith, April 16 2015 — Around 400 people were at the conference today, and I managed to talk to Mats Lewan, Robert Godes and Peter Hagelstein about their work and thoughts. Peter and I discussed his vision of the potential ‘best uses’ for LENR for a quarter of an hour or so. He is particularly interested in the potential of LENR for powering better robots – not the toys we have now, but robots with the power and stamina to move amongst us like real people. He also sees the potential for making the world a better and cleaner place. Massive de-salination projects, the clean-up of nuclear waste by transmutation, CO2 capture or even denaturing would also become possible with LENR. Speakers at this conference have increasingly talked about transmutation of ‘fuel’ into a startlingly large variety of elements. This leads one to hope that maybe 10 years in the future we will be able to make one element into another as we wish- analogous to the way that biotechnologists are finding methods to produce complex proteins- using living systems as manufacturing systems.

I was invited to attend a fascinating ‘off site’ presentation given by Dr. Vladimir Dubinko from the Kharkov Institute of Physics & Technology (Ukraine) to Klee Irwin and colleagues from Quantum Gravity Research in Los Angeles USA. I had spoken to Vladimir earlier in the week and thought his simulation work on ‘breathers’ fascinating – and a terrific fit with Klee’s own research. This led me to arrange their meeting.

For those that haven’t heard of them, breathers is the name for the tiny ‘hot-spots’ where LENR reactions are born. They typically occur in quasi-defects in the atomic lattice. It’s a complex topic, but in brief Vlad has shown how atomic ‘ping-pong’ at breather sites my overcome the Coulomb barrier with only small (by nuclear standards) inputs of energy. And he has the mathematics to describe it – which I confess I only dimly comprehend.

Tomorrow evening I will be in Venice, dining with Aleksander Parkhomov, Vladimir Dubinko and a couple of other conference delegates. Should be an interesting dinner, and a marvelous end to an amazing week. The only small cloud on my horizon has been the sudden and total death of my netbook, but happily little data went to heaven with it. I have a camera full of interesting photos, and can maybe persuade Frank to put up a gallery soon. Back to the UK and real life on Saturday, it will seem a bit tame by comparison.

UPDATE #7 (April 16)

The Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project is in need of a Variac to carry out an experiment they hope to do tomorrow. They need to bring down the voltage into the thyristor stack from the mains as the starting voltage is too high. The Variac will need to be 5kW minimum and will be needed in Padua first thing in the morning. If anyone can help with this please contact the MFMP via their Facebook page, or send me an email (ecatworld@gmail.com) and I can forward it on to the MFMP.

They have an experiment set up — see picture below:

mfmppadua

UPDATE #6 The following video was sent to me from Cold Fusion Dog Bob who spoke with Klee Irwin, director of Quantum Gravity Research and a co-founder of Singularity University. Klee Irwin is friend of Ruby Carat of Cold Fusion Now, and in this video makes an offer to LENR researchers that could be very helpful.

Cold Fusion Dog Bob told me that the analysis that Irwin wants to perform is called X-Ray Diffraction. While Klee mentions dogbones in the video, the material / powder does not necessarily be from a dog bone – it can be from a cathode of other cold fusion experiments also.

UPDATE #5 Here are some selected tweets from Mats Lewan who is at the conference now. Mats’ Twitter feed can be accessed at: https://twitter.com/matslew


UPDATE #4 Day 2 Wrap-Up from Alan Smith

The day had some interesting presentations- I would personally pick on David Kidwell (USN/Darpa) who was a lively speaker with some interesting results to present Along with several other speakers he has detected RF emissions (broad spectrum) from his systems. This is difficult to explain by any conventional nuclear physics.

Peter Hagelstein also spoke in the morning session, and discussed anomalous emissions from his charged copperfoils- emissions which though they triggered and x-ray detector have been shown not to be x-rays. Right now he is not ready to describe them exactly.

Violante Vittorio spoke today – and he is one of the people Bill Gates saw when he went to ENEA in Rome. He is part of the wet-cell crowd who are generally less interesting to me.

Spent some time today discussing theory with Voladimir Dubinko – a very smart ukrainian experiment physicist and mathematician – and introduced him to Klee Irwin from Qauntum Gravity research because their ideas are so similar. They got on like a house on fire.

Also discussed a particular idea I have with mike mckubre and voladimir- they think it is very interesting. I’ll write more on it when I get back.

Tip of the day- talking to lots of people here about ‘frequencies’ — what do you put into the coil? All the answers I got were in the gigahertz area.

Tomorrow I will be spending some time with Parkhomov — will be having lunch and a chat.

UPDATE #3

Many thanks to Robert Ellefson for giving this report of Day 2 of the conference.

Well, I’m pleased to report that today was a high-quality program for this conference, with a full day of substantial technical presentations that seemed to often go longer than the 15 minutes allotted, which I appreciated.
I also was pleased to see Tom Darden still in attendance, and had the real pleasure of a quality conversation with a close friend of his. I was assured by him that Mr. Darden is not seeking to make money from his cold fusion ventures, and is honestly striving to make the world a better place with his investments in the field. I entirely believed these statements to be genuine, and his friend’s admiration for Mr. Darden’s character and ethics were clearly apparent. I was greatly encouraged by this, and took the opportunity to plead with this friend to ask Mr. Darden to do all he could to release the E-Cat technology for worldwide development and deployment ASAP, for the sake of humanity. His response was a very kind offer to introduce me to Mr. Darden if the opportunity arises before his departure, which I was greatly encouraged by. Since they are staying in the same small hotel as me, I think I just might get my chance to plead my case before the week is out. Of course, it is quite possible, perhaps even likely, that Mr. Darden does not (yet?) have the ability to do this, if Rossi has retained much of the fundamental IP stake, but at least he is in a position of some influence over the matter. Maybe compassion will win out after all!

UPDATE #2

I received the following from Alan Smith in Padua who has agreed to provide reports to ECW from the conference.

‘We are all keeping the same secret’: Mike McKubre

 One of the most interesting aspects of the conference for me was the increasing interest of delegates in open collaboration. This was headlined in Mike’s excellent speech in the morning session. He feels that year by year the detractors grow fewer and the supporters grow younger and increase in  numbers.
Certainly looking around at the 350 delegates in the hall there were plenty of people present who are obviously just at the beginning of their careers in science, and not the sea of grey heads one saw in years gone by.
Tuesday should see the attendance figure hit 450. The highlight of the day will perhaps be the presentation by Dr Norman Cook, who collaborated with Andrea Rossi on the recent theory paper.
During the day I had a chance to make contact with a number of researchers, including Alexander Parkhomov. I’m Hoping for more one-to one time with a number of key players later this week.

 

UPDATE #1

Many thanks to Bob Greenyer for the following comment and photo:

“Tom Darden gave a measured speech that introduced his organisations environmental credentials, respected the LENR communities sacrifice in the face of adversity and explained how he came to invest, his intention to do more investment and that he was in the space for the long haul.

He did say that he has been encouraged by progress”.

darden1
Tom Darden Speaking at ICCF19 — Courtesy MFMP

Video and text of Tom Darden’s talk can be seen on this thread: http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/04/14/tom-dardens-speech-on-lenr-at-iccf19/

It’s almost midnight in Italy so I thought it’s time to open up a live thread for reports and comments about the upcoming ICCF19 conference in Padua which start on Monday, April 13.

We’ll try and keep abreast of the latest developments coming out of the conference. Comments and reports from anyone at the conference are most welcome here — we thank in advance for sharing your news and views.

I understand that proceedings will be filmed and posted online at a later date, but I’m not aware yet that there will be any live streaming.

Here’s a link to the conference schedule for the whole week: http://iccf19.com/program_detail.html

  • I could analyse few poster prepared

    Xiamen University tried to replicate defkalon, failed, but they got HAD with NiD :woo:
    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1351-ICCF19-Xiamen-University-China-tried-to-replicate-Defkalion-failed-but-get-NiD-h/

    after LENR-Cities CEO speaking on friday (and in the panel on monday afternoon), LENR-Invest (which is not in the ecosystem, sorry for the mixing) will present a poster

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1350-LENR-Invest-present-at-ICCF19/

    Celani present his latest result, with improved constantan wires doped with iron…

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1349-ICCF19-Celani-will-the-results-of-his-latest-improved-constantan-wires/

    Biberian present a successful replication of Parkhomov up to 1000C with a very good flow calorimeter

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1348-ICCF19-Jean-Paul-Biberian-will-present-results-of-his-Parkhomov-inspired-replica/

    (few watt only, but good wats)

    a poster by tohoku university

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1260-LENR-at-Tohoku-University-by-Yasuhiro-Iwamura/

    Godes poster not yet pinned, but david got a photo of a prototype

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1274-Brillouin-will-present-test-results-at-ICCF19/?postID=3808#post3808

    NB: I met robert elefson… 8)

    my capacity to take photo is limited, as video.

    • Gerrit

      Merci Alain. Just give us your impressions of the conference.

    • Ged

      Thank you, Alain!

    • Josh G

      Alain, thanks for this information and your dedication. You are ‘our man’ on the ground. Excited to hear from you about Darden’s presentation.

    • EmTee

      Thank you!
      I am trying to get informed in LENR since 2011 Rossi presentation, looking for news every few month, but the last weeks I am here daily and want to say thak you to all of you collecting and delivering all this news hardly mentiont in any “traditional” mag or tech blog.

  • I could analyse few poster prepared

    Xiamen University tried to replicate defkalon, failed, but they got HAD with NiD :woo:
    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1351-ICCF19-Xiamen-University-China-tried-to-replicate-Defkalion-failed-but-get-NiD-h/

    after LENR-Cities CEO speaking on friday (and in the panel on monday afternoon), LENR-Invest (which is not in the ecosystem, sorry for the mixing) will present a poster

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1350-LENR-Invest-present-at-ICCF19/

    Celani present his latest result, with improved constantan wires doped with iron…

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1349-ICCF19-Celani-will-the-results-of-his-latest-improved-constantan-wires/

    Biberian present a successful replication of Parkhomov up to 1000C with a very good flow calorimeter

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1348-ICCF19-Jean-Paul-Biberian-will-present-results-of-his-Parkhomov-inspired-replica/

    (few watt only, but good wats)

    a poster by tohoku university

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1260-LENR-at-Tohoku-University-by-Yasuhiro-Iwamura/

    Godes poster not yet pinned, but david got a photo of a prototype

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1274-Brillouin-will-present-test-results-at-ICCF19/?postID=3808#post3808

    NB: I met robert elefson… 8)

    my capacity to take photo is limited, as video.

    • Gerrit

      Merci Alain. Just give us your impressions of the conference.

    • Ged

      Thank you, Alain!

    • Jag Kaurah

      Thanks Alain. You are our man!!

      Is there some way, perhaps with the help of others to get better images of the posters?

    • Josh G

      Alain, thanks for this information and your dedication. You are ‘our man’ on the ground. Excited to hear from you about Darden’s presentation.

    • EmTee

      Thank you!
      I am trying to get informed in LENR since 2011 Rossi presentation, looking for news every few month, but the last weeks I am here daily and want to say thank you to all of you collecting and delivering all this news – hardly mentioned in any “traditional” mag or tech blog.

  • Bob Greenyer
    • “Vindication

      The MFMP is going to announce something very special, something everyone has wanted to know for years but that no one could expect to ever know.”

      Everyone is raising expectations. Makes me think ICCF19 is going include a fair amount of inebriation.

      • Daniel Maris

        Well it’s been a rollercoaster ride all along, so far…it would be nice to switch metaphorical ground to a rocket launch pad…with this being take-off time.

    • Matt Sevrens

      With a proclamation like that how is this site so dead today?

    • Ged

      Whhhaaaaaaaat. Have you guys been holding out on us just for this special occasion ;)?

      Don’t leave us hanging too long though, this is getting to be a bit much on the old excitement meter–I think it’s close to blowing a fuse.

      • Bob Greenyer

        We conduct our experiments live.

        What we have to announce will, when concluded, produce important, sought after results.

        • pg

          When are you doing the experiment? And how long is it supposed to run for?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Ugo Abundo is sending us a power monitor, Hopefully the Pi160 is coming from Germany – we have everything else

    • Teemu Soilamo

      You guys do know that, with a post like like that… if this is NOT about a successful replication, you will permanently lose the respect of many people. Be careful.

      • Bob Greenyer

        People will understand – it is completely in tune with the project

    • pg

      What time are you announcing it?

      • Hank Mills

        We need to replicate.

        No matter how good the reports about the megawatt plant are from Rossi, we need to replicate.

        No matter how interesting the next theory paper from Rossi-Cook may be, we need to replicate.

        No matter who from Cherokee goes to conventions or conferences, we need to replicate.

        This speech told me something very clearly: we are alone. It is 100% up to us to use the Ni-LiAlH4 recipe to prove to the world cold fusion is real and push it into acceptance by the mainstream media and scientific community.

        For now, Cherokee won’t help.

        • Nigel Appleton

          I don’t understand you, for one. How can you blame Darden’s organisation for the lack of vision of CEZ CEO and your government.?

          Where are YOUR Rossis, YOUR Parkhomovs, YOUR MFMPs, YOUR amateur scientists, YOUR venture capitalists?

          • Ged

            Said they had some success, but even more importantly, that they were expanding. That really says the most.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          I agree!

        • You got it. I don’t understand all this excitement. It’s the same as every year at ICCF.
          Much “blabla” followed by a year of delay announcements or even complete silence.

          The PdD experimenters are nice, but they are getting often results in milliwatt ranges, which imply measurement errors. Others with more excess heat use questionable calorimetry.

          It is as you said: We need replications. At best by open guys like MFMP.

    • tlp

      Found this from the first comment: (Anna Sofia Fleischmann’s timeline at 1988)

      https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=537861706261677&set=a.396429570404892.85457.100001135580778&type=1

      “The fam on an important day for Cold Fusion. Mummy, Daddy, Nana, Poppy, Guy and I.”

  • Bob Greenyer
    • “Vindication

      The MFMP is going to announce something very special, something everyone has wanted to know for years but that no one could expect to ever know.”

      Everyone is raising expectations. Makes me think ICCF19 is going include a fair amount of inebriation.

    • we-cat

      Bob, keep us posted. We want these coins!

      I use this reply to also thank you for your hard work. It has been a great pleasure to follow your efforts in regards to promoting the LENR space. The world needs guys like you.

      JB

    • Matt Sevrens

      With a proclamation like that how is this site so dead today?

      • Hador_NYC

        people are holding their breath.

        • R101

          And turning blue 😉

    • Fyodor

      hints?

    • Ged

      Whhhaaaaaaaat. Have you guys been holding out on us just for this special occasion ;)? There has been a strange bit of quiet for a bit now.

      Don’t leave us hanging too long though, this is getting to be a bit much on the old excitement meter–I think it’s close to blowing a fuse. Or if you aren’t ready to do it later on the 13th, at least give us a hint as to when. It’s only fair!

      • Bob Greenyer

        We conduct our experiments live.

        What we have to announce will, when concluded, produce important, sought after results.

        • pg

          When are you doing the experiment? And how long is it supposed to run for?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Ugo Abundo is sending us a power monitor, Hopefully the Pi160 is coming from Germany – we have everything else

    • e-dog

      Straight from Bob’s link above… first three lines

      “Vindication

      The MFMP is going to announce something very special, something everyone has wanted to know for years but that no one could expect to ever know……”

      Did you guys pull it off???… WHAT IS GOING ON GUYS??????… Hope its not a teaser!

      Oh and the coins would be a lovely investment!

    • Teemu Soilamo

      You guys do know that, with a post like like that… if this is NOT about a successful replication, you will permanently lose the respect of many people. Be careful.

      • Bob Greenyer

        People will understand – it is completely in tune with the project

    • pg

      What time are you announcing it?

    • tlp

      Found this from the first comment: (Anna Sofia Fleischmann’s timeline at 1988)

      https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=537861706261677&set=a.396429570404892.85457.100001135580778&type=1

      “The fam on an important day for Cold Fusion. Mummy, Daddy, Nana, Poppy, Guy and I.”

  • R101

    And turning blue 😉

  • Sanjeev

    ICCF19 Classy and Sassy in Padua
    http://www.drboblog.com/iccf19-classy-sassy-padua/

  • Sanjeev

    ICCF19 Classy and Sassy in Padua
    http://www.drboblog.com/iccf19-classy-sassy-padua/

  • Julian Becker

    http://iccf19.com/poster_session_2.html

    Looks like Norman Cook will also be present and explain the theory underlying the E-Cat

    • Bob Greenyer

      Norman cook is here – I spoke to him – they have updated their paper – he recognises it’s incompleteness

    • R101

      It would be cool if he DJ’ed a couple tracks while he was there too 😉

      • e-dog

        slim chance phat boy!

  • we-cat

    Guys, please provide some feedback! Is Gates in the room? Is Darden smiling?

  • we-cat

    Guys, please provide some feedback! Is Gates in the room? Is Darden smiling?

  • Sanjeev

    Live audio here, thanks to MFMP. Only that it sounds like the meeting is taking place in a deep well.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIiPUKz3b3I&feature=youtu.be

    • we-cat

      Haha..indeed…and all speakers are part of a Gregorian choir. Thanks anyway!

    • Bedroom_eyes

      You would think that a group with this many intelligent people would be able to set up a simple audio feed. 😉
      Impossible to understand sadly.

      Thanks for the link. Hopefully it’ll get better.

    • Andre Blum

      spooky!

    • Freethinker

      It is an admirable effort, but I think tweeting a comment a minute or every second minute would be better as the audio is terrible. Just got shot noises, sound like a gun is being fired – but it is of course not, as the speaker is still talking calmly, but utterly unintelligible…. Please tweet!

    • Giuliano Bettini

      However, many thanks to MFMP.

  • Bob Greenyer

    http://bit.ly/1CAhiVg

    Tom Darden gave a measured speech that introduced his organisations environmental credentials, respected the LENR communities sacrifice in the face of adversity and explained how he came to invest, his intention to do more investment and that he was in the space for the long haul.

    He did say that he has been encouraged by progress.

    • Gerrit

      He’s encouraged by the progress, but the results, as you know, could be either positive, or negative ?

      • Jarea

        hehe, did he said that? XD good one

        • Gerrit

          I don’t think so, it was my musing.

      • bachcole

        I doubt that he would have been there is the results were negative.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Correct me if I am misstating but Darden has stated his goal is to remove coal as a fossil fuel. If that is his simple goal, and he was in charge of a reactor that could do just that, why would he delay in announcing that fact to encourage and hasten the implementation of that reactor?

      • If I had invested in a revolutionary technology that few people believe in, and I know that there’s along term trial going on and doing exceptionally well, although I still don’t have any solid theory for the technology, I would also wait until the end of the trial to be able to present undeniable and convincing proof that the technology is working well. And given that I don’t have any commercial products ready for delivery, I would also see it as an advantage to gain time before waking up the world.

        • Argson2011

          So Mats, how about your enthusiasm from yesterday? How do you feel now?

          • Good 🙂 Darden knows what he has, he’s confident, and he will take his time to the end of the 1 MW trial. And as I wrote implicitly in my book, I’m satisfied that the very much typical inventor Andrea Rossi found an industrial partner in the end, that can handle the commercial, organizational and political part of this technology.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          I do not agree. I would start ten more trials and research projects that would hasten its implementation. If I were Darden and just made the speech I made, I would immediately release every secret to my successful reactor to the researchers I just praised so that they can improve it. Something, someone, some entity is restraining him. Darden, “I am not in it for the money”

      • bachcole

        Perhaps he doesn’t want the Securities and Exchange Commission to flip out and toss him in jail. I am confident that he has some good reason.

      • lepthadrelix

        A reason to hold off: releasing additional partial results could also provide more opportunity for the deniers, fear-mongers, regulators and energy incumbents to attack, question and undermine LENR, which could have the net effect of discouraging research and investment instead of promoting it.

    • Josh G

      Thanks for the update, Bob. Not really that surprised. But then it’s not clear why he bothered to slog out to Padua…

      • timycelyn

        Networking…..

        • pelgrim108

          Its in line with what Darden said here:
          From the Darden speech:
          “”We envision an ecosystem of collaboration where scientists can work together to develop the many systems and technologies society will need to shift away from polluting fossil fuels.
          Our goal is to bring nonpolluting energy to those who need it most, especially in the developing world.””

      • pg

        the food…

      • bachcole

        Hss presence is his way of communicating to us. Why would he travel all this way and give a speech if things weren’t looking good with the E-Cat. The man has far more important things to do than go to all the trouble of travelling 1/3 of the way around the world and giving a speech, if the E-Cat wasn’t going well.

    • Freethinker

      Bob,

      I know this is a tall order, and of course any info you can give is greatly appreciated.

      But. Would it be possible for you guys to tweet from time time – as often as possible – on say #iccf19 ?

      The live audio transmission on youtube was an admirable attempt to bring it live, but I am afraid the audio quality was too poor to give anything.

      Also, if at all possible, if you find some interesting posters, could you photograph them high-res, or multiple images to build a mosaic? (say 4×4)

      I envy you guys being there. Wish I were. Therefore I am begging for these bits of information 🙂

      • Gerrit

        I second that.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Will do our best

          • Mats002

            Hi Bob, is it possible you can hook up directly to the amplifier system, instead of picking up the sound by microphone? That would make a big difference.

    • bachcole

      Thank you for that excellent synopsis. I wish that I had read your comment before I tried to plough through his speech.

      However, your synopsis did not mention the silent but resounding message of his presence.

    • rats123

      Hi Bob, has MFMP made their announcement?

  • pelgrim108

    A few minites of Darden speaking, thanks to Cold Fusion Dog Bob
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPDgT1A4Olk

    • ecatworld

      Thanks! I made a rough transcription of what he said above. Lots of echo in the room, so hard to catch everything.

      • pelgrim108

        Parts 1, 2 and 3 are availleble also as of now.
        https://www.youtube.com/ user/DrBobsColdFusionTube/videos ( remove spaces)

      • pelgrim108

        I was doing the same, Now you can fill in some blanks 🙂

        You have given your lives to your research, not withstanding great challenges,
        and you made a great difference to the world. Thank you for your years of hard work and progress.
        Every day I think of you and I am inspired. At the same time I would like to say
        how truly sorry I am that society has attacked you for the last 3 decades.

        The treatment of Fleishmann and Pons and the treatment of many of you by mainstream institutions
        and the media will go down in history as one more example of scientific infanticide.
        Where entrenched interests go kill of their divergent progeny.
        This seems to be a dark ??? of human nature.
        I note the irony, we are in Padova, Galileio’s city.
        But not withstanding this long suffering, you remained faithfull to your work.
        Thank you for your intense focus and contributions. In the face of challenges we must carry on,
        with good faith, good will, good intensions and honesty driven by the ??? angels of our nature.
        Not ??? constrained by the behaviour of others.
        We also need not be constrained by our own minds. Ironically the expert ??? claimed that
        flight had reached its limits in 1921. It was Orville Wright, the inventor of the airplane.
        And the expert ??? declared that fission was not likely. That of course was Albert Einstein.
        We must be ever vigilant.

      • john

        Back in raw reality, the ICCF-19 is more a meeting for large industrialists, to somehow control the patents. No one in that room have anything to show, only AR / IH have total control of the situation.

        The rejection of Hugo Abundo and his team shows that there is a clear attempt by the ICCF-19 not to admit the new LENR generation have a voice.

        The paradigm will be broken by people like us, underground researchers, as well says Hank Mills, through pure and simple replication of the phenomenon. I’m working on a type of device based on palladium in a very small quantity, others follow with their recipes …

        Today I was surprised by MFMP facebook announcement to rule that has a big surprise is waiting for everyone, I think it is something like a replica, I hope it is positive, but it can be also negative. So I’m not excited at all…

        Moreover, do not expect anything ICCF-19 related for the rest of the week. It’s a meeting to try to find out if someone has a hidden surprise.

        My question is: How to get funding for our devices? I’ve spent from my pocket about 6000 usd. But spent without thinking of recovering this money, as well as MFMP and Hugo Abundo, if I see something positive I’ll liberate all the information.

        The Planet needs my 6000usd and yours too: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/05/travel/the-wonder-list-chamonix-alps-bill-weir/index.html

        • MFMP said they will start an auction of a donated cold fusion coin. With the money they want to buy new parts for further reactors.

          I hope that they have a successful experiment which works reliable, and they want to build more of these reactors to send them to interested universities and the money is for this purpose.

          But on the other hand: When they had a positive experiment, why did they not reported about it?

          • john

            I think they merged with Ugo Abundo… I hope they show this video together with their big revelation. This video is the one we must send to ICCF-19 and say to them think about it instead of talks and talks and care of your big money ! https://youtu.be/ipe6CMvW0Dg

        • Tom59

          John, for 6000 usd you may buy a dune buggy, go to Hawaii or gambling, but that would not give you the excitement and memories you get out of experimenting beyond the limits of our physics universe. THAT creates stories your kids and their kids will listen to…

    • Josh G

      So basically he didn’t give any substantive info about the e-cat. After his talk we was asked ‘what is your timeline’ which I guess was a gentle (but obvious) question about the e-cat, and he again didn’t give a straight answer. He basically said that they don’t have a timeline. Patience is a virtue. And in some cases they have continued investing in technologies for 10-15 years before anything came of it. I guess his remarks could be read as saying that the work on the e-cat is not progressing as quickly as they’d hoped and that they might need more time. But I think we should be careful to read too much into his remarks. It seems his appearance at ICCF was to say, Industrial Heat is here now and we are going to invest in LENR (and in fact he says they already have, not just in Rossi). Seemed like he was really trying to reach out to the LENR scientific community.

      • pelgrim108

        I agree, and speaking of an ecosystem and of funding several teams, he is basically inviting people to contact him for support.

  • pelgrim108

    Thanks to Cold Fusion Dog Bob
    □▭▭▭▭▭▭▭▭▭۩۞۩▭▭▭▭▭▭▭▭▭□
    The speech of Tom Darden

    Part 1
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMHI55m6vWo
    Part 2
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epusxN-R4Nw
    Part 3
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKEYMitJpIg
    Part 4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPDgT1A4Olk
    Part 5 ( last part)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qq-RPukK7s

    • Argson2011

      Sounds like a priest more than a venture capitalist. Really was this it?

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks! I made a rough transcription of what he said above. Lots of echo in the room, so hard to catch everything.

      • pelgrim108

        Parts 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 are availleble also as of now.
        https://www.youtube.com/ user/DrBobsColdFusionTube/videos ( remove spaces)

      • pelgrim108

        I was doing the same, Now you can fill in some blanks 🙂

        You have given your lives to your research, not withstanding great challenges,
        and you made a great difference to the world. Thank you for your years of hard work and progress.
        Every day I think of you and I am inspired. At the same time I would like to say
        how truly sorry I am that society has attacked you for the last 3 decades.

        The treatment of Fleishmann and Pons and the treatment of many of you by mainstream institutions
        and the media will go down in history as one more example of scientific infanticide.
        Where entrenched interests go kill of their divergent progeny.
        This seems to be a dark ??? of human nature.
        I note the irony, we are in Padova, Galileio’s city.
        But not withstanding this long suffering, you remained faithfull to your work.
        Thank you for your intense focus and contributions. In the face of challenges we must carry on,
        with good faith, good will, good intensions and honesty driven by the ??? angels of our nature.
        Not ??? constrained by the behaviour of others.
        We also need not be constrained by our own minds. Ironically the expert ??? claimed that
        flight had reached its limits in 1921. It was Orville Wright, the inventor of the airplane.
        And the expert ??? declared that fission was not likely. That of course was Albert Einstein.
        We must be ever vigilant.

    • Josh G

      So basically he didn’t give any substantive info about the e-cat. After his talk we was asked ‘what is your timeline’ which I guess was a gentle (but obvious) question about the e-cat, and he again didn’t give a straight answer. He basically said that they don’t have a timeline. Patience is a virtue. And in some cases they have continued investing in technologies for 10-15 years before anything came of it. I guess his remarks could be read as saying that the work on the e-cat is not progressing as quickly as they’d hoped and that they might need more time. But I think we should be careful to read too much into his remarks. It seems his appearance at ICCF was to say, Industrial Heat is here now and we are going to invest in LENR (and in fact he says they already have, not just in Rossi). Seemed like he was really trying to reach out to the LENR scientific community.

      • pelgrim108

        I agree, and speaking of building an ecosystem and of funding several teams, he is basically inviting people to contact him for support.

  • Gerrit

    what did Robert Duncan speak about ?

  • Gerrit

    what did Robert Duncan speak about ?

  • I cannot help thinking about what the scene at the conference center in Padua would have been right now, if this technology development was known to a wide global audience. All major tv-channels and news organizations would be there, some of them broadcasting speeches live, eager to report the latest developments…

    • – and it seems clear to me that Darden’s speech was aimed at the MSM which he assumed would be present but obviously wasn’t, which is a pity.

  • I cannot help thinking about what the scene at the conference center in Padua would have been right now, if this technology development was known to a wide global audience. All major tv-channels and news organizations would be there, some of them broadcasting speeches live, eager to report the latest developments…

    • Bo Carneholm

      would be interesting to know about some important people are in the audience that we should know , GE, ABB , etc ?

    • – and it seems clear to me that Darden’s speech was aimed at the MSM which he assumed would be present but obviously wasn’t, which is a pity.

  • Nigel Appleton

    Darden certainly punched a lot of the right buttons there. Socially responsible capitalism – who’d-a-thunk-it?

    • He’s doing well.

      • Mats002

        Hi Mats. I agree, he made a very fine speach, I admire him for his long good environmental work done. Has this work ever been covered in Swedish media? It should. We can learn from him and others in the same good game.
        About E-Cat and Rossi: I hope more information will be put forward during this week. OK if not all is revealed in the opening day, but I will be disapointed if nothing about this technology is discussed/presented during the week. I am aware both Cook (theory) and Parkhomov (replication) are on schedule…

        • No, as far as I know Darden is not known in Sweden, nor is he covered in Swedish media. Will try to do so, as soon as my editors will let me report on Rossi, which might take a while since we would need some solid evidence. At that point though, it will be interesting to portrait Darden, in order to understand what convinced him to pioneer a large investment in this technology.

          I don’t think anything else will be said about the E-Cat during ICCF-19, except for what Cook might say (poster session I think). But as Peter Gluck pointed out — Darden’s speech was much more than expected. There’s a significant skepticism, on reasonable grounds I would say, for the LENR approach made by Rossi and other non-academics.

  • Nigel Appleton

    Darden certainly punched a lot of the right buttons there. Socially responsible capitalism – who’d-a-thunk-it?

    • He’s doing well.

      • Guru

        No, I not agree. Man in his very special position MUST step up publicly in more important forum – media and told the world, that Rossi technology is working and every new coal powerplant is obsolete to start construction. His old fashioned behaviour is causing extreme losses in wrong capital allocation.

        Who don’t understand me ?

        Our insane CEO of CEZ (biggest half state owned powerplant here) publicly screaming he is ready to buy obsolete abandoned asstes if Your glorious Vattenfall. Have You fun ?
        We no, it will cost u our country few tens billions.

        • Nigel Appleton

          I don’t understand you, for one. How can you blame Darden’s organisation for the lack of vision of CEZ CEO and your government.?

          Where are YOUR Rossis, YOUR Parkhomovs, YOUR MFMPs, YOUR amateur scientists, YOUR venture capitalists?

        • Hador_NYC

          The losses are neither extreme nor wrong capitol allocation. He owes nothing to you or your country; or me and mine either (even though we are in the same.) What he is doing is being responsible, and in the long run will help us all win.

          • Guru

            When man has full mouth of saint words about “clean Planet etc.”, so Yes.
            Capital misallocations are: These hundreds very big projects about building another new coal, (uranium) nuclear, gas etc. powerplants, heating plants, etc. etc. .
            Billions USD per every one day capital misallocations.
            And full mouth of saint words. I have blood pressure 300 from such manequins.

        • Josh G

          Yep, people getting ahead of themselves and making premature announcements never hurt anyone…especially not LENR science…

        • Freethinker

          I understand what you say. What is not to understand? There are environmentally and economically bad assets in the energy sector. One player wish to get rid of them, and another player think it is a sound investment to buy it.

          But you cannot have Tom Darden be responsible for all bad energy assets in the world. Or for that matter take care of the slack from less intelligent CEO’s.

          I mean: If he took a more firm stance and made a statement much more decisive positive, would it really change the mind of the CEO ready to buy bad assets from Vattenfall?

          Soon enough, if Rossi’s power plant turn out to have the capacity and endurance that we think it have, it will solved in the end.

      • Mats002

        Hi Mats. I agree, he made a very fine speach, I admire him for his long good environmental work done. Has this work ever been covered in Swedish media? It should. We can learn from him and others in the same good game.
        About E-Cat and Rossi: I hope more information will be put forward during this week. OK if not all is revealed in the opening day, but I will be disapointed if nothing about this technology is discussed/presented during the week. I am aware both Cook (theory) and Parkhomov (replication) are on schedule…

        • No, as far as I know Darden is not known in Sweden, nor is he covered in Swedish media. Will try to do so, as soon as my editors will let me report on Rossi, which might take a while since we would need some solid evidence. At that point though, it will be interesting to portrait Darden, in order to understand what convinced him to pioneer a large investment in this technology.

          I don’t think anything else will be said about the E-Cat during ICCF-19, except for what Cook might say (poster session I think). But as Peter Gluck pointed out — Darden’s speech was much more than expected. There’s a significant skepticism, on reasonable grounds I would say, for the LENR approach made by Rossi and other non-academics.

  • Good 🙂 Darden knows what he has, he’s confident, and he will take his time to the end of the 1 MW trial. And as I wrote implicitly in my book, I’m satisfied that the very much typical inventor Andrea Rossi found an industrial partner in the end, that can handle the commercial, organizational and political part of this technology.

  • DB

    Uploaded 4 darden clips – only one to go

  • Sanjeev

    After seeing Tom’s speech, (and hearing him a bit) it seems he is there just to extend his support to the LENR community.

    • Yes, and it is like I said yesterday: business chatter and PR.

      • Freethinker

        True. But don’t be blind to the elephant. The fact that he is there at all.

        • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

          I agree: he is putting his weight and support behind a scared community (though a less shy community today, thanks to the brave who never gave up!).

          Researchers in this field have been scared by 25 years of undignified scientific and unscientific attacks, mainstream institutional and journalistic ostracism.

          The times, they are a-changin’.

      • Gerrit

        No technical details in his speech, but interesting facts nonetheless. For instance IH has funded other scientists for (I assume LENR) research.

        • Sanjeev

          Yes, its interesting. I wonder who they are and whats the status.

    • Chris the 2nd

      More or less said, if you think you’ve got something come knock on my door you don’t need to be afraid anymore.

      • Alain Samoun

        I don’t know if anybody has mentioned it but Parkhomov is here in Padova. I even give him a cheer with my glass of champagne and he responded with a nice smile. :-)) But so far I do not see any presentation of his work at the conference.

        • Freethinker

          A late poster contribution? Have you checked? Otherwise he is there for discussing collaborations and generally do networking. To me is seem self evident that he should be there. He has kind of earned the spot.

  • Sanjeev

    After seeing Tom’s speech, (and hearing him a bit) it seems he is there just to extend his support to the LENR community.

    • Alex Ruiz

      I agree, but was it what you were expecting from him?

      • Sanjeev

        I was not expecting anything special from him. Its a fine speech.

      • bachcole

        I expected more, maybe a major announcement. But, like I said elsewhere, there may be SEC concerns. But there is no law against showing up, making a big speech, and allowing us to read between the lines.

    • Yes, and it is like I said yesterday: business chatter and PR.

      • Freethinker

        True. But don’t be blind to the elephant. The fact that he is there at all.

        • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

          I agree: he is putting his weight and support behind a scared community (though a less shy community today, thanks to the brave who never gave up!).

          Researchers in this field have been scared by 25 years of undignified scientific and unscientific attacks, mainstream institutional and journalistic ostracism.

          The times, they are a-changin’.

      • Gerrit

        No technical details in his speech, but interesting facts nonetheless. For instance IH has funded other scientists for (I assume LENR) research.

        • Sanjeev

          Yes, its interesting. I wonder who they are and whats the status.

    • Chris the 2nd

      More or less said, if you think you’ve got something come knock on my door you don’t need to be afraid anymore.

      • luca

        That makes no sense at all: he has already the best tech ever (provided by Rossi).

        • Hador_NYC

          assuming it works. we all don’t know that.

        • lepthadrelix

          There could be many paths to full LENR utilization, at the levels of physics, engineering, industry and commerce. And many dead ends. He’s spreading his bets.

  • Hank Mills

    We need to replicate.

    No matter how good the reports about the megawatt plant are from Rossi, we need to replicate.

    No matter how interesting the next theory paper from Rossi-Cook may be, we need to replicate.

    No matter who from Cherokee goes to conventions or conferences, we need to replicate.

    This speech told me something very clearly: we are alone. It is 100% up to us to use the Ni-LiAlH4 recipe to prove to the world cold fusion is real and push it into acceptance by the mainstream media and scientific community.

    For now, Cherokee won’t help.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      I agree!

    • bachcole

      You and Bernie K. may be factually correct, but I do not share your hysteria.

      First, replications are in the process of sprouting here and there.

      Second, I.H. is obviously moving forward to obvious validation.

      So, why the panic and freaking out?

    • Hador_NYC

      Cherokee will replicate by selling those plants. Competitors will buy them and replicate. IT will get out there fast as it will be cheaper.

    • You got it. I don’t understand all this excitement. It’s the same as every year at ICCF.
      Much “blabla” followed by a year of delay announcements or even complete silence.

      The PdD experimenters are nice, but they are getting often results in milliwatt ranges, which imply measurement errors. Others with more excess heat use questionable calorimetry.

      It is as you said: We need replications. At best by open guys like MFMP.

  • f sedei

    Darden presents a very calm and confident demeanor. This attitude appears appropriate for one who knows he is sitting upon a magnificent, historic discovery about to be released as a blockbuster upon a largely unsuspecting world society. Patience, in this case, is definitely golden.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      I do not agree. I would start ten more trials and research projects that would hasten its implementation. If I were Darden and just made the speech I made, I would immediately release every secret to my successful reactor to the researchers I just praised so that they can improve it. Something, someone, some entity is restraining him, “I am not in this for the money”.

      • Ged

        People have different approaches, as much as I admire yours.

      • bachcole

        You don’t know if he is not releasing information to people.

        And perhaps he just doesn’t have your anxiety about the environment. You seem terrified. He doesn’t.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          Your not reading what he has said about the environment. He thinks the world is in dire shape, “If you are driving a car towards a cliff, it doesn’t help you to slow down — you need to turn around and go in a different direction.” http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/techflash/2014/10/raleigh-investor-darden-still-bullish-on.html?page=all

          • bachcole

            I believe you. I was just saying that he may very well have perfectly good reasons for not releasing every secret to his successful reactor. He has investors who expect a return on their money. They would probably tie him up in court for years if he did something like that. If we the people start stealing industrial secrets from businesses, businesses will stop having the incentive to have create and have industrial secrets: “Why invest in research and development when all of that investment will be stolen from us by the environmental red guard anyway.”

      • Hador_NYC

        If he’s got the real deal, then who cares if it takes a couple more years. The world is not going to end tomorrow. If this thing does work, and I am starting to think it does, then we’ll have all the energy we need to clean up anything and everything. Further, it will take a long time to deploy these changes even if we had incontrovertible proof today. the simple fact of the matter is that there is a lot of systems out there. What will happen first is that these will simply augment the existing systems as power needs grow. Over time, as the older, existing power plants wear out, and hopefully faster than that, we’ll replace them with these. That being said, a 1MW shipping container is a far cry from a 1GW coal or nuclear plant, and there are a LOT of them in this world.

        Relax, we’ll get there, but there is no need to rush it, further, the fastest way to get it out there is not to make it free, but to enable folks to make money on it.

    • bachcole

      Nice analysis. Since I was too lazy to watch the videos, I didn’t see that. (:->)

  • Josh G

    Yep, people getting ahead of themselves and making premature announcements never hurt anyone…especially not LENR science…

  • Sanjeev

    I was not expecting anything special from him. Its a fine speech.

  • bachcole

    OK, it seems rather disappointing, but lets look at the big picture. Darden is an extremely busy man. Yet here he is in Italy giving a lengthy speech to a bunch of pariahs and true believers. What does that tell you? The guy flew 1/3 of the way around the world and spent a great deal of time talking to a room full of mostly strangers. Do I have to paint the picture for you? It says that Rossi is the real deal and that I.H. has something real.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Give me a break, “Darden is an extremely busy man”. China is choking in their coal dust!

      • bachcole

        And that means what? China is the biggest country in the history of the world, and somehow because Darden hasn’t solved all of their problems that this means that Darden is not a busy man. You are not making any sense.

      • Hador_NYC

        I don’t follow, what’s your complaint; that he’s not moving fast enough?

    • Ged

      Said they had some success, but even more importantly, that they were expanding. That really says the most.

  • pelgrim108

    Photo from Doctor Bob: “cool picture of setup”

    https://twitter.com/DrBobCrew/status/587610223940075520

    • Josh G

      Whose setup? What are we seeing?

      • pelgrim108

        I dont know.

  • pelgrim108

    Photo from Doctor Bob: “cool picture of setup”

    https://twitter.com/DrBobCrew/status/587610223940075520

    • Josh G

      Whose setup? What are we seeing?

      • pelgrim108

        I dont know.

        • e-dog

          me neither

  • Freethinker

    I understand what you say. What is not to understand? There are environmentally and economically bad assets in the energy sector. One player wish to get rid of them, and another player think it is a sound investment to buy it.

    But you cannot have Tom Darden be responsible for all bad energy assets ion the world. Or for that matter take care of the slack from less intelligent CEO’s.

    I mean: If he took a more firm stance and made a statement much more decisive positive, would it really change the mind of the CEO ready to buy bad assets from Vattenfall?

    Soon enough, if Rossi’s power plant turn out to have the capacity and endurance that we think it have, it will solved in the end.

  • I’m sure many from Japan, India, China etc. look past the Cold Fusion Skepto-babble with interest. IH got three inquiries about LENR a few years ago, I’ll bet their phone is about to ring off the hook. I think Darden was aiming towards this larger audience. To the members of ICCF he was preaching to the choir, But to many of the movers and shakers who have their eye on IH and the Ecat, the fact that he was there was sort of a statement that things are going well in the Ecat shipping containers.

    Hank Mills is right. Replication has to keep it’s momentum going.There is still much of the Cold Fusion war to be won. Earnie Monast, a science advisor to Obama has thwarted CF at MIT. He sent back corporate funding for CF research while MIT obtained 20 million for Hot Fusion research. Abuses of power (because I can’t believe it is ignorance) have to be overcome from many angles.

    • bachcole

      Perhaps Darden is fishing for more serious researchers or research projects to work with or along side of Rossi.

      I can believe that Earnie Monast acted out of ignorance. They still think that we are all a bunch of believers. The only thing true-believing about me is the willingness to keep looking until I found solid evidence for the E-Cat. Scientifically speaking, I don’t see anything wrong with that. If I hadn’t found solid evidence, then I would not have become a believer. But Earnie Monast’s failing is his lack of trust and curiosity to keep looking for that solid evidence.

      They just don’t want to work at finding the evidence, and that means that they think that we are all a bunch of stupid true believers. So they will have wait until Home Depot starts selling units before they can stop being depressed about the future state of the world.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I do not agree. I would start ten more trials and research projects that would hasten its implementation. If I were Darden and just made the speech I made, I would immediately release every secret to my successful reactor to the researchers I just praised so that they can improve it. Something, someone, some entity is restraining him, “I am not in this for the money”.

    • Ged

      People have different approaches, as much as I admire yours.

  • john

    Back in raw reality, the ICCF-19 is more a meeting for large industrialists, to somehow control the patents. No one in that room have anything to show, only AR / IH have total control of the situation.

    The rejection of Hugo Abundo and his team shows that there is a clear attempt by the ICCF-19 not to admit the new LENR generation have a voice.

    The paradigm will be broken by people like us, underground researchers, as well says Hank Mills, through pure and simple replication of the phenomenon. I’m working on a type of device based on palladium in a very small quantity, others follow with their recipes …

    Today I was surprised by MFMP facebook announcement to rule that has a big surprise is waiting for everyone, I think it is something like a replica, I hope it is positive, but it can be also negative. So I’m not excited at all…

    Moreover, do not expect anything ICCF-19 related for the rest of the week. It’s a meeting to try to find out if someone has a hidden surprise.

    My question is: How to get funding for our devices? I’ve spent from my pocket about 6000 usd. But spent without thinking of recovering this money, as well as MFMP and Hugo Abundo, if I see something positive I’ll liberate all the information.

    The Planet needs my 6000usd and yours too: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/05/travel/the-wonder-list-chamonix-alps-bill-weir/index.html

    • MFMP said they will start an auction of a donated and rare cold fusion coin. With the money they want to buy new parts for further reactors.

      I hope the big announcement is, that they came across the properties for an successful experiment which works reliable, and they want to build more of these reactors to send them to interested universities and the money is for this purpose.

      But on the other hand: When they had a positive experiment, why did they not reported about it?

      • john

        I think they merged with Ugo Abundo… I hope they show this video together with their big revelation. This video is the one we must send to ICCF-19 and say to them think about it instead of talks and talks and care of your big money ! https://youtu.be/ipe6CMvW0Dg

    • Tom59

      John, for 6000 usd you may buy a dune buggy, go to Hawaii or gambling, but that would not give you the excitement and memories you get out of experimenting beyond the limits of our physics universe. THAT creates stories your kids and their kids will listen to…

  • Robert Ellefson

    Well, after a lot of eager anticipation about this conference, not to mention a large expenditure of personal time and money, I’ve got to admit that I am now feeling more than a little disappointed with the conference so far. The oral presentations are limited to 15 minutes each, plus 5 minutes of q&a, which is barely enough time to introduce a topic properly, much less to inform the audience about deeply technical and complex subjects such as are being discussed.
    Each day has one, two or three blocks of four oral presentations, for a total of either 1:20, 2:40 or 4:00 hours (max) of presentations each day. Only Tuesday has a full four hours of oral presentations. Half of today was essentially wasted in self-congratulatory preening speeches, mostly in Italian, and orchestra music, which was nice, but entirely superfluous. Then we had only four 15 minute technical presentations, before breaking for the poster sessions, which I found difficult to extract much value from, because the few authors present were mostly engaged in 1:1 discussions with a number of other people already waiting to ask questions. Mike McKubre gave a nice talk calling for more open cooperation and collaboration, and less secrecy, which I appreciated, but he did not offer much in the way of actionable suggestions other than to encourage the old-timers to mentor the new generation of researchers.
    Tomorrow (Tuesday) is the only ‘full’ day, with three oral presentation blocks, for a total of three hours of presentations and one hour for q&a. Then on Wednesday we get all of one hour of presentations, because of the (optional, extra-cost) Padua city tour in the morning. Thursday has two morning sessions, for two hours of presentations in total, then Friday has one session consisting of one hour of presentations. This makes for a grand total of eight hours of oral presentation time for the entire week, plus q&a time of about two and a half hours.
    I’m now wishing I had just stayed home and worked on my experiment instead. So far, the biggest benefit seems to be the excuse for my family to take a nice European vacation before the conference, which I enjoyed. Hopefully the rest of the week will be better, but given the absurdly limited program schedule, I don’t have good expectations for these abbreviated 15-minute presentations.

    • Ged

      Thank you for your reports from there!

      • e-dog

        Second that, thanks Robert. Hope it gets more interesting!

    • Matt Sevrens

      Have you gotten to speak directly to anyone?

      • Robert Ellefson

        Yes, I’ve had a number of nice conversations, and enjoyed lunch with the MFMP crew, and while this face-time and networking is valuable, it’s not why I chose to attend ICCF, Based on the massive firehose of data that ICCF18 presented, I came with the expectation that I would be learning substantial technical information. Instead, I’ll be hearing brief introductions to work which will hopefully end up in the proceedings at some point.

    • Bob

      Is Tom Darden mixing and mingling or did he leave? If possible, try to ask him a few specifics about the eCat. It does not have to be anything releasing IP, just basic questions to confirm Rossi’s very positive reports of late, such as stable SSM, high COP etc. If the customer is pleaseed so far, etc. What relationship IH and Rossi currently stand at. etc.

      Unfortunately, nothing in his talk really supported Rossi or the eCat. Without the eCat, there is no current LENR device that is even close to economical, industrial output. Without that, no other company is going to take Rossi seriously. If there is no device that is “close” to being industrial or economical, very few companies will jump in.

      I cannot understand why he would not be at least mentioning the 1MW test.

      • Robert Ellefson

        I didn’t notice him at the coffee breaks or poster sessions, so I don’t know if he stayed or left. I suspect he left after his talk, but I don’t actually know.

    • Freethinker

      Robert,

      I sense a great deal of disappointment in what you write. I wonder if it is all that necessary for you to be disappointed.

      I don’t know. I am not at the conference. But how many conferences (scientific) have you attended? In what field? I guess it may vary between fields, but my own experience (not very excessive, but seen a few) of scientific conferences is exactly what I see in the program.

      Most people there know the field, know the participants, either personally, remote collaboration, or through their work in reports and papers. The 15 minutes are short, because there should be enough slots so as many as possible can give a chance to describe their current work, but also to force the presenters to be very concise and to the point.

      A lot of the q&a is happening behind the curtain. Much discussing may take place at poster sessions. It is therefore important to have a lot of time allotted to seemingly unimportant things, as to give time to network, mingle, discuss, make plans for new projects and collaborations. Some meeting may take place entirely out of session, even in other geographical locations in the vicinity. They will of course be out of sight for guest just there to visit and listen in.

      On of the most important results of the conference is the proceedings from the conference, where articles are printed, and that will serve as a bona fide source of informations for other to refer to in other papers further down the line. That too is not immediately visible to the visitor.

      To me this seem like a conference like any other. It’s just that the subject is so much more important to so many outside the field, than is otherwise common. And we get impatient and want real time disclosure and very high efficiency, further hoping for bombastic, positive, proclamations of undeniable success, that will save humanity.

      I still think it has the potential to be a landmark conference. Patience is a virtue. We should not forget.

      • Robert Ellefson

        Patience is a virtue, but I don’t have the time…

        I have attended a good number of engineering-related conferences, but ICCF18 was my first ‘science’ conference, and as I wrote, I calibrated my expectations based on that. I understand the importance of mingling and insider-private-session time, but this particular conference seems way out-of-balance as far as those matters are concerned. For three out of the five days there will be only one hour of presentations taking place. I’ve never heard of such paltry technical content in a conference before. Have you? I wouldn’t be so negative if this were a run-of-the-mill industry conference, instead of the leading technical conference for a field that is about to revolutionize life on earth. Seriously!

        • Freethinker

          Well, yes. Seriously. But you seem to have a good hold on what to expect.

          It is you, as an outsider, that find the time plan as a definitive short coming. Like I said, I am not there, and does not experience it first hand, but my guess is that the seemingly ineffectiveness is in real life very efficient on a plane you are not invited to or privy to observe.

          Sorry, I cannot share your pessimism in this. To me the importance is in what momentum will be gained by the scientists in the field, and collaborations forged, as a result of the conference. Not the amount of oral presentations (or the level of technical newsworthiness in them). Hopefully the proceedings will contain a good share of important papers. Possibly Cook and Rossi will be allowed to publish something there, although they (as far as I know) only have a poster.

          Already there are important things that has taken place. Regardless what one might have hoped for content wise from Tom Darden, the mere fact that he was there was of some major, certainly non-negligible, importance.

          You are in a historical time-space at this very moment. If I were you – I know I am not – I would try to enjoy that to the fullest.

      • MWerner

        I have attended the Society of Automotive Engineers congress many times and they have hundreds of papers presented in a week. The automotive industry is of course very large and mature.

        • Freethinker

          Great. Maybe they did have a number of parallel sessions, so there were oral presentations going on all the time, often more than one at the same time? This is not uncommon for big conferences. This seem not be the case with ICCF19.

  • deleo77

    Darden’s speech really confirms that IH has raised money to be an incubator for cold fusion technologies. Rossi is just one of their bets. The incubator approach has proven to be a good one in biotech and software. I believe that Darden has also invested in Brillouin, but I don’t know if that is through IH or not. I think Darden is primarily at ICCF as a VC and he is looking for more investments to go under the IH umbrella. I imagine Darden will be swarmed during the coffee break.

    Darden may want to become the Bill Gates of cold fusion and he is spreading his money around to different researchers to see who and what ultimately prevails. In that sense Darden is doing a lot for LENR. Seeding several research groups with capital is a great way to see what works and what doesn’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if Darden opens up his checkbook this week in Italy to fund a couple of more groups.

    • catfish

      Bill Gates may also want to be the Bill Gates of cold fusion

      • Matt Sevrens

        Yeah, except for for some ridiculous reason Bill is following the palladium research instead of nickel.

        • Mytakeis

          perhaps because it’s more expensive to use, and makes greater returns than does nickel, (even though nickel wins the affordability title)

          • Matt Sevrens

            Greater returns at lower levels of energy though. We’re at watt scale with palladium. Sure the COP is more like 80 but no one has scaled that up yet to make commercially viable heat or electricity.

          • Mytakeis

            Right on the money, Matt. Nickel wins. Gates about-faces?

        • mcloki

          Does provide a higher melting point.

        • catfish

          I wouldn’t be too quick to rule out palladium, especially rightnow.

      • Gerrit

        He’d better hurry up then !

        • triple helix

          There was a mention here of Dr. Norman Cook speaking Tuesday. Did he?

    • Daniel Maris

      Yes, I am afraid I have to agree. The relationship to Rossi does not seem as close as some of us hoped.

      • mcloki

        Close in business is relative. Darden is just not putting his eggs in one basket. Someone is going to make a breakthrough in LENR. He wants to make sure his finger is in the winning pie, so to speak.

        • Daniel Maris

          But that implies he is not convinced Rossi has made the breakthrough. Which is odd – given what Rossi says he is currently up to.

          • Owen Geiger

            Maybe there are 2-3 winning pies and Darden wants his fingers in all of them. This would also cut back on lawsuits and competition.

          • pelgrim108
          • Sanjeev
          • Bob Greenyer

            No this is Nicolas Chauvins interpretation of what Dr. Parkhomov used. Having spent the evening discussing what he did use last night, this is not that.

            He used very thin steel – so thin in fact that a sewing needle was able to penetrate it easily to create the gas exchange holes. It was for 3 reasons he used thin steel

            1. easy fuelling
            2. easy extraction
            3. stop hot metals from destroying the ceramic tube integrity.

          • Sanjeev

            Thanks for the info. Do ask for data if you see him 🙂

          • Eyedoc

            ‘create the gas exchange holes’ ? so the H can contact the Alumina tube ?? Why ?

          • Omega Z

            Note that Darden Named Rossi & the E-cat. The others was just given funding while Rossi in some manner goes well beyond just funding.

            Also Note: The Cat & Mouse game at the End.
            It appears no questions about the E-cat were to be asked by prior agreement.
            However the moderator did ask 1 not so well hidden E-cat question.
            We’ve got 1 question.
            What is you time line?

            And Darden so slyly gave no answer.
            He even had a cats meow grin show for a moment.

  • deleo77

    Darden’s speech really confirms that IH has raised money to be an incubator for cold fusion technologies. Rossi is just one of their bets. The incubator approach has proven to be a good one in biotech and software. I believe that Darden has also invested in Brillouin, but I don’t know if that is through IH or not. I think Darden is primarily at ICCF as a VC and he is looking for more investments to go under the IH umbrella. I imagine Darden will be swarmed during the coffee break.

    Darden may want to become the Bill Gates of cold fusion and he is spreading his money around to different researchers to see who and what ultimately prevails. In that sense Darden is doing a lot for LENR. Seeding several research groups with capital is a great way to see what works and what doesn’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if Darden opens up his checkbook this week in Italy to fund a couple of more groups.

    • john M

      I agree. The 1MW plant costs X amount to build and X amount to operate. Darden may not be making bold statements at this time because it is not yet cost effective. Very few will pay out large sums for the “novelty” alone.

      • Matt Sevrens

        Good point. Even if the customer’s electricity bill is zero, the 1MW plant still requires multiple engineers on site, and the plant itself is likely very expensive itself. They need production lines to bring the cost down.

        • US_Citizen71

          Please state your source for “the 1MW plant still requires multiple engineers on site”. Or did you just decide that on your own?

          • AlbertNN

            Is that not what Rossi himself reports? That he is babysitting it together with two engineers.

          • Ged

            The needs of a prototype reactor being tested and broken in are not at all the same as those of a production one.

          • AlbertNN

            Matt Sevrens comments were med in present and not future tense, as I read them.

          • clovis ray

            I/H has a very happy customer, that would mean that the mw plant is producing energy, in ever raising degrees

          • US_Citizen71

            It is a beta test, of course engineer’s are around in case something goes wrong, not for safety as much as to prevent damage to the equipment. Reality is not a simulation things may come up that you have not programmed for. If you have ever wrote any code you should understand what a beta test is. Rossi has also stated that they are doing some other tests on other hardware at the location. How much of his attention is on one or the other won’t likely be known until they decide the time is right.

          • mcloki

            This is the test phase. You never know when a breakdown or major discovery will happen.

          • Frank Acland

            I asked Rossi about this earlier this year:

            FA:. If the plant passes the year-long test, how many people will be required to manage the plant?

            AR: none, the control system will make it all, but will be necessary the presence in the factory of a specialist certified by us.

            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=874&cpage=9#comment-1061309

          • Matt Sevrens

            So the answer is one.

          • clovis ray

            once again it under test, what is it about that you don’t understand, spitt it out, we here a ECW, are genius but we can’t read minds.

          • hempenearth

            One specialist, trained and certified by Rossi’s team, will need to be in the factory and this person may be an existing employee given extra/changed duties to include looking after the E-Cat when necessary – it may involve 10 minutes of monitoring each day, responding to alarms as necessary and changing the fuel every six months. From a business cost perspective the answer may be less than 0.1

        • clovis ray

          Matt, hi,
          the only reason they need multiple engineers is because they are testing, dau. and what if Mr, Darden, just said, well you pay me 25% of your last energy bill and i will produce all the energy you need, “SAY WHAT”.

    • catfish

      Bill Gates may also want to be the Bill Gates of cold fusion

      • Matt Sevrens

        Yeah, except for for some ridiculous reason Bill is following the palladium research instead of nickel.

        • HS61AF91

          perhaps because it’s more expensive to use, and makes greater returns than does nickel, (even though nickel wins the affordability title)

          • Matt Sevrens

            Greater returns at lower levels of energy though. We’re at watt scale with palladium. Sure the COP is more like 80 but no one has scaled that up yet to make commercially viable heat or electricity.

          • clovis ray

            NO, We at mw,scale, are you forgetting Dr.R. i believe he has his cats under load as we speak, some 100 of then, in fact, you see they are under their last test, before the tech is released, here is our challenge , to reproduce his kitty before the end of the year, who will be first , and i say that ECW should get to decide which one is real, i can’t think of anyone more capable of doing that job,

          • HS61AF91

            Right on the money, Matt. Nickel wins. Gates about-faces?

        • mcloki

          Does provide a higher melting point.

          • clovis ray

            So it would hold to say, that all elements would have their on reaction trigger,sweet spot in order to produce the Rossi Effect.

        • catfish

          I wouldn’t be too quick to rule out palladium, especially rightnow.

      • Gerrit

        He’d better hurry up then !

    • lepthadrelix

      He also just carefully solicited the goodwill of the largest concentration of LENR R&D assets on the planet. In the industrial war for talent, Darden has made a major move. Other VC’s will take note.

  • Ged

    Thank you for your reports from there!

  • Matt Sevrens

    Good point. Even if the customer’s electricity bill is zero, the 1MW plant still requires multiple engineers on site, and the plant itself is likely very expensive itself. They need production lines to bring the cost down.

    • US_Citizen71

      Please state your source for “the 1MW plant still requires multiple engineers on site”. Or did you just decide that on your own?

      • ecatworld

        I asked Rossi about this earlier this year:

        FA:. If the plant passes the year-long test, how many people will be required to manage the plant?

        AR: none, the control system will make it all, but will be necessary the presence in the factory of a specialist certified by us.

        http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=874&cpage=9#comment-1061309

        • Matt Sevrens

          So the answer is one.

          • clovis ray

            once again it under test, what is it about that you don’t understand, spitt it out, we here a ECW, are genius but we can’t read minds.

          • hempenearth

            One specialist, trained and certified by Rossi’s team, will need to be in the factory and this person may be an existing employee given extra/changed duties to include looking after the E-Cat when necessary – it may involve 10 minutes of monitoring each day, responding to alarms as necessary and changing the fuel every six months. From a business cost perspective the answer may be less than 0.1

          • Ophelia Rump

            I wonder if Tom Darden was there to size up the competition or fund them?

            When I think about his words, I get the notion that he has a super tanker sized boat load of backer interest monies for LENR ventures in an array of interest categories from investment to specific applications.

            How many rich industrialists must have approached Tom Darden about LENR by now, especially after Bill Gates visit to Italy. Maybe even Bill himself.

          • fritz194

            …. I think so ;-))
            What was the first company ? Defkalion ?

          • Ophelia Rump

            I would bet no on has ever heard of either of the first two.
            Mr. Darden is shy, and plays his cards close to his chest.

          • Hi all

            “A companies assets go up a down in the lifts” Traditional business saying 😉

            Kind Regards walker

          • timycelyn

            Indeed. How much would we know about Rossi’s work with Cherokee, if Rossi said nothing and was a shy retiring guy who hated talking to anyone? Nothing……

          • Ivan Idso

            Regarding the MFMP announcement, they had posted one of the original Fleshman cells and said it had to do with that. Last night they said they got more information pertaining to the vindication. I speculated that they sent the original F & P cell in to be analyzed and found evidence of transmutations which would vindicate F & P.
            What does everyone else think?

          • Gerrit

            Thursday afternoon is still “to be defined”, maybe the MFMP will reveal it on Thursday.

          • Ged

            Interesting, that is mysteriois. Maybe MFMP has had some insider knowledge to someone else’s success that’ll be shared then.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            Have you seen Randell Mills et als new paper that is under submission e.g.

            Mechanism of Soft X-ray Continuum Radiation from Low-Energy Pinch Discharges of Hydrogen and Ultra-low Field Ignition of Solid Fuels

            at

            http://www.blacklightpower.com/publications/

            I think that this paper is a really significant step in the scientific hydrino discussion,

            The paper is about hitting a substrate with an electron beam of low voltage but high current and examine the blast. A multitude of equipment are used, both BLP’s and Harward Astrophysical Centers. It’s unclear if the folks doing the tests was independent of each other, but it is not a big hurdle because there is nothing hidden and the experiment is reproducable and the method is clearly described so that anybody can do his own validation if the equipment is available.

            So one main thing is that this device produces high energetic photons seen in the EUV spectra that cannot according to their argument, be produced according to any known way except the hydrino formation. There have been suggestions of other reasons for this result and as I understand all those have been ruled out. This experiment is really interesting because it produces an experiment that creates EUV radiation also seen in astrophysical measurements. But also an indication that Mills is right regarding hydrinos and his theory and also something that bode well for the future. Anyway lets lists some interesting facts

            * EUV spectra does not appear in blank runs
            * EUV spectar does not appear if non catalytic specimen are used e.g. Mills can predict with his theory when we see EUV spectra or when we don’t as diffrent speciment are tried
            * It’s a reproducable experiment. Physistst shuould really try to reproduce this and call Mills bluff if he bluffs, which is highly unlikely.
            * EUV spectra is not a consequence of the welder, you need a much higher voltage to create that.
            * The EUV spectra is well explained by the hydrino theory.
            * The blast is going on although the welder is off.
            * A surplus of energy can be calculated.
            * Suggested other explanations are ruled out in arguments and targeted tests.
            * The light is very much sun like

            We’ve seen efforts to reproduce parkhomov to tell about the ecat. I would say that reproducing the experiment in Mills article would be a fine task as well to do, well in line with the higher goals in Dardens talk. Why don’t we do that, after all hydrinos could be a decent explanation of a good part of LENR results, but not all if the results of the ECAT is spot on (too high energy density). Also as a side remark pekkas recent remark on rossis journal is interesting new twist to why we don’t see radiation, whether true is another matter.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            What does a “blank run” mean in this context? Did they test the „catalytic specimen“ in absence of hydrogen?

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            They did quite a lot of variations. But If I remembered correctly there was one with helium and that could perhaps be refered to a blank run.

          • pelgrim108

            This Harvard research is from 2010. So I dont get it. They found only hydrinos could explain the data and then never talked about it again?
            http://www.blacklightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/GEN3_Harvard.pdf

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            The referred article is under submission. So I would assume that it includes a more thorough argument for its sake as well as new tests done. Of cause you will find the old 2010 results as well included and they refer to that in the article. Anyhow if anyone can find a hole in their argument the merrier because then the discussion will continue as should be in a good discusison.

          • Axil Axil

            This technique of producing nano structure is very much like what Ken Shouhers has done in his EV experiments. There, the electric discharge produces a plasma that cools into a cloud of nanoparticles as also happens in the hydrogen envelope of the Hot cat. These particles produce surface plasmon polaritons from which anaopole magnetic beams are produced. The XUV radiation is produced by the SPP solitons that are 3 nanometers in diameter. This provides a 10 nn wavelength for the EMF released when the SPP soliton explodes in a Bosenova as per DR. Kim.

            The Hot Cat also produces XUV and so does cavatation. This is all standard cold fusion.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            Hydrino theory says no XUV for speciment, experminents show no XUV for speciment. Hydrinos theory say XUV for speciment, experiment show XUV for speciment. Can standard cold fusion theory immitate that trick?

          • Axil Axil

            Yes, Mills is producing arc induced SPPs in this system as do many other kinds of LENR systems. DGT has done this in their system. Also true for the Papp engine.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            Let me explain, the key is to have a catalyst for the hydrino reaction, e.g. you need to temporally excite the catalyst with the right amount of energy. No not all elements have the right excitation energy and then no hydrino reaction can be enabled. So Milles et all tried swaping the catalyst and they showed a perfect match between catalysts and non catalysts and the measred EUV spectra. So you have another theory that explain the EUV, I would like to see how that theory can predict the outcome of the measured EUV. As far as I can understand the standard cold fusion theory is not that precise.

          • Axil Axil

            Nanoplasmonic explains this. When a give element is vaporized, it will condense into a nanoparticle of various sizes based on its magic number. See rydberg matter

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rydberg_matter

            Usually, hydrogen is required to produce small particles that are able to generate the XUV wavelength of EMF/

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            Do you say that the magic number co-inside with the ionisation energy of the catalyst? I would say that they don’t and that you can separate the two hypothesises through the test Mills et al did and hence support Mills hypothesis.

          • Axil Axil
          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            I cannot see a covariation between the magic number and excitation energy. Also this article refers to the MHz range, not EUV.

          • Axil Axil

            With all due respect, If you want to understand overunity technology, I suggest that you spend more time trying to understand nano science and less time understanding Mills science.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            With all due respect I do understand that the excitation energy of the catalyst atom is a different concept then the magic number. I also hear that you say that the the formation of EUV is dependant on the magic number acording to your hypothesis. And Mills theory says that depends on the excitation energy. ERGO if you do a series of experiments, you can decide which of the hypothesis is true. That’s logic. Mills have done that and showed that it matches his theory. I would say that most probably his theory is right in this contest. Of cause nanotheory can play a role as a secondary effect regarding energy packet transformation and put it’s mark on the measurements, but it does look like hydrino formation are the main cause to me.

          • Axil Axil

            The magic number is a measure of the size of the nanoparticle, the higher the number, the bigger the particle. It is also reflective of the excitation level of the particle formation process.

            The aggregation of particles produce the interparticle connection points that produce the EMF that produce the anapole magnetic beams. This is all standard science. The size of the solitons formed in between these nanoparticles is a measure of the EMF frequency that is released when the soliton explodes.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            And how is the excitation level of the particle formation process related to the individual atoms excitation level. But I did check which compounds showed an effect, it was Cu, Ti, Ni, the ones that did not show an effect was Ca and Zn from the same row in the periodic table does Cu Ti Ni have the same magic number and have Ca and Zn a different one?

          • Axil Axil

            Ti and Ni are excellent reflectors of infrared light. This is optimum for the production of SPPs. Cu not so much. Ca does not make good lenr particles because it are not a transition metal. There is a magnetic requirement also involving the curie temperature. This might take Zn out of the running.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I spoke to him a few times, he is very happy with the recent meeting which has started a well-funded program focussing on attempting to see high excess heat first – if this is achieved they will look for an explanation.

          • Alain mentions McKubre and Voldimir but I am sure he simply mistakening typed in McKubre when he really meant to type in Voldemort (aka McKubre) and Voldimir that makes much more sense.

          • Gerrit

            [OT] Eurekalert carries the Tohoku LENR press release.

            http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-04/tu-eps041415.php

          • Ged

            No Day 3 updates I take it? Also, indeed, I’d love to hear any information on Dr. Norman Cook. Hope it’s going well over there still–looking forward to whatever fills the undefined spots in tomorrow.

          • @bobgreenyer:disqus
            Do you have a chatroom (maybe with invitation) where, let’s say 1 – 2 people of the community can get in contact with you to forward messages and infos to you and get from you?
            Would be less stressing for you to just answer questions in one chatroom as on several communities 🙂

            If you want you can come online at LENR Forum chat room: http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/chat/index.php/Chat/1-LENR-Chat/

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes – I will invite Frank

          • Ged

            Thanks for the update! Those last two talks are potentially usefully. We may be on nickel and not palladium now, but theory wise, comparing the two is very important; and factors in palladium cells have implications for improving nickel.

          • pelgrim108

            You ignored the question.

          • tlp

            Definitely this experiment should be reproduced. It is more difficult with those high currents and detecting EUV spectra, so it needs to be done in physics laboratory. But that’s why those laboratories are.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            And they need grants and support to actually do it.

          • Axil Axil

            RF along with heat and XUV are all types of EMF that are expected to be produced from a magnetically based LENR system. RF comes from NMR active material in the reactor when non zero spin atoms are excited by magnetism.

            See

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_magnetic_resonance

          • Andre Blum

            Not sure what triggered you to write this, but I understand RF (‘frequencies’, ‘GHz’) in the context of update #4 was meant as a wilfully introduced input to catalyze the reaction. Not as an resulting output of the reaction.

          • Axil Axil

            Re: “Along with several other speakers he has detected RF emissions (broad spectrum) from his systems.”

          • Andre Blum

            okay, got it. thanks!

          • Axil Axil

            One of the tests that will show that a LENR reaction is active is the detection of RF.

          • Josh G

            The community of scientists who present at ICCF 19 long ago produced incontrovertible evidence of excess heat from the LENR process. Mostly they have been concerned with a) proving that it is nuclear in nature [which they succeeded doing so early on] and b) trying to understand and manipulate/control it.

            Some rumination: after the F&P announcement in 1989, many many scientists rushed to see if they could get similar results with more-or-less similar methods (would not go so far as to say exact replication). Most of the scientists who have been involved in LENR research since 1989 are those who got positive results early on. The ones who got negative results (or ignored the positive results that they did get, such as at MIT), did not stay involved. Not coincidentally, there seems to be a close correlation between “open-mindedness” and positive replication vs. “close-mindedness” and negative replication. The most closed-minded scientists created a self-fulfilling prophecy by never really giving it much of a chance to succeed and ignoring or discounting evidence that did not support their conclusion (and even pronouncing it dead before they even got the results of their own studies, simply because they “knew” CF was impossible). This report from Eugene Mallove provides a blow-by-blow description of the “scientific infanticide” of cold fusion: http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/mitcfreport.pdf

          • Daniel Maris

            Well, I have sympathy with Rats’ question. Why if it is so clear and obvious isn’t someone displaying a compact machine in operation at the conference?

          • Josh G

            I think there are a lot of reasons.

            First off, to replicate an experiment with proper calorimetry, etc. is technically very difficult and time-consuming. It’s not something that can easily be done in a few days, especially if the effect takes weeks to manifest.

            Also, if it’s clear and obvious to them, then why should they have to display a machine? Astronomers don’t bring a telescope to show each other the sun. All they need to do is present their results. Science proceeds on the basis of the belief that other scientists are telling the truth and not fabricating results. Which is actually why science in the early days was a game for noble men, because only nobility were assumed to have the proper moral character necessary for science.

            But I think your question gets to a deeper point. The ICCF is the annual scientific conference of the International Society for Condensed Matter Nuclear Science. So they’re adopting a model of what a scientific conference is and what kinds of activities do and do not take place at scientific conferences. In other words, it’s not a maker faire or a trade show. It’s a scientific conference, and bringing actual experiments for ‘show and tell’ is not part of what people do at scientific conferences. Doesn’t make it right or wrong, but bringing in for show and tell would really be thinking ‘outside the box.’

            There have been some exceptions, notably at ICCF-5 and ICCF-10. Here is McKubre on the demonstration of the Patterson Power Cell at ICCF-5 (which also points to another reason why not–safety):

            “For the first time there was a working demonstration of a device. Fleischmann and Pons had made an unpowered demonstration with a video of operation at ICCF3 in Nagoya but Tom Passell and I had prohibited demonstrations at ICCF4 on the grounds of safety and liability especially following the fatal accident at SRI. The “new kid on the block” at Monte-Carlo was Jim Patterson of Clean Energy Technologies, Inc. (CETI) working with Dennis Cravens (by then retired from New Mexico State University but independently operating and a consultant to CETI). They brought to the conference a demonstration cell in a flow calorimeter of novel design. Jim, another of our fallen warriors, and Dennis can be seen below with their demonstration device. Although I did not make any measurements or note any numbers the demonstration was quite impressive, especially in Dennis’ hands.

            “Jed Rothwell notes in his ICCF5 summary in Infinite Energy: “The device output 3 to 5 times input energy, ignoring energy lost to electrolysis gases, and as much as 10 times input if you include various factors such as electrolysis gases and the heat lost from the cell container. I will describe it in detail in a later communication. Briefly, input power was usually held at about 0.4 watts (current times voltage, I*V)…When the machine was first rolled into position and turned on in the morning, there was no excess for 10 or 20 minutes, and the temperature Delta-T fluctuated around 0.2°C, indicating about 0.14 watts output. The rest was lost to known heat leaks from the cell container and to the effluent gasses from electrolysis, which were measured with a gas flowmeter. As the reaction turned on, the Delta-T gradually rose to about 2°C, and sometimes rose as high as 4°C, indicating…1.4 to 2.8 watts. Patterson’s device is described in U.S. Patents 5,036,031 and 4,943,355. It is a thin-film, light water system. It incorporates co-polymer beads with a flash coat of copper and electrolytically deposited thin film coatings of nickel, palladium, and another outside layer of nickel.”
            “Much more might be said about this machine and it did represent a strong source of hope at the time. Unfortunately information unstated prevented replication which ultimately Patterson and Cravens were also unable to do when the original lot of multi-coated plastic spheres were exhausted. Although George Miley spent considerable effort exploring and attempting to develop the CETI technology this matter became sadly moot when both Patterson and his grandson Jim Redding, who was developing the business, passed away.”
            http://iccf19.com/history2.html

            At ICCF 10 in Cambridge they had a version of the NANOR running at MIT that conference attendees were invited to go and check out. But it was not officially part of the conference. Here is McKubre again:

            “A strong feature of ICCF10 was the occurrence of fully functional demonstrations. Conducted “down the street” at MIT proper Mitch Swartz hosted scores of people at a demonstration of a cold fusion cell under active operation and control.This demonstration lasted most of the week and attracted a good deal of interest and discussion. Although something similar was attempted and performed by Dennis Cravens of the Patterson Power cell at ICCF5 in Monaco, this was a bold thing to do and, with Peter’s help, Mitch pulled this off ably. Mitch can be seen below demonstrating his cell to an obviously interested group.”

            http://iccf19.com/history4.html

            Also, Les Case, who was not an academic scientist, brought in his devices for show and tell during his presentations, although he did not give a live demonstration.

          • Brent Buckner

            “I wonder if Tom Darden was there to size up the competition or fund them?”
            Both! But mainly the latter (read his speech as a venture capitalist pitching a room of prospects on his own suitability as a business partner).

          • Josh G

            Alain confirms on lenr-forum that Carl Page, Jr. is there, as well as Lowell Wood, who is a scientific adviser to Bill Gates and accompanied him on his visit to ENEA a few months back. I have a suspicion that the most interesting and exciting things happening at ICCF-19 are going on behind closed doors.

            http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1373-Carl-Page-brother-of-Google-co-founder-Larry-Page-in-Padua/?postID=3927#post3927

          • Roland

            A casual conversation between Lowell Wood and Tom Darden over aperitifs…

          • things happen beside the cofee machine,
            and in soon to came meeting.

            I’m afraid I will have to learn a new alphabet (or many more)

          • lepthadrelix

            Chumming?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Vitorio Violante from ENEA said they turned on their excess heat with a 0.5-1 Tesla magnetic pulse. The machine creating the pulse was made by an undisclosed company and they do not know what was inside.

          • Ged

            Curious. Could be induction heating to start the reaction, or something new. Would be interesting to know how fast it pulses.

          • Robert Ellefson

            Well, I’m pleased to report that today was a high-quality program for this conference, with a full day of substantial technical presentations that seemed to often go longer than the 15 minutes allotted, which I appreciated.

            I also was pleased to see Tom Darden still in attendance, and had the real pleasure of a quality conversation with a close friend of his. I was assured by him that Mr. Darden is not seeking to make money from his cold fusion ventures, and is honestly striving to make the world a better place with his investments in the field. I entirely believed these statements to be genuine, and his friend’s admiration for Mr. Darden’s character and ethics were clearly apparent. I was greatly encouraged by this, and took the opportunity to plead with this friend to ask Mr. Darden to do all he could to release the E-Cat technology for worldwide development and deployment ASAP, for the sake of humanity. His response was a very kind offer to introduce me to Mr. Darden if the opportunity arises before his departure, which I was greatly encouraged by. Since they are staying in the same small hotel as me, I think I just might get my chance to plead my case before the week is out. Of course, it is quite possible, perhaps even likely, that Mr. Darden does not (yet?) have the ability to do this, if Rossi has retained much of the fundamental IP stake, but at least he is in a position of some influence over the matter. Maybe compassion will win out after all!

          • Sanjeev

            For Rossi’s tech, he used the word “licensed” not bought. I think it will be difficult to give it away without annoying Rossi and destroying all relations with him. No harm in trying though 🙂

  • Matt Sevrens

    Have you gotten to speak directly to anyone?

    • Robert Ellefson

      Yes, I’ve had a number of nice conversations, and enjoyed lunch with the MFMP crew, and while this face-time and networking is valuable, it’s not why I chose to attend ICCF, Based on the massive firehose of data that ICCF18 presented, I came with the expectation that I would be learning substantial technical information. Instead, I’ll be hearing brief introductions to work which will hopefully end up in the proceedings at some point.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Your not reading what he has said about the environment. He thinks the world is in dire shape. http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/techflash/2014/10/raleigh-investor-darden-still-bullish-on.html?page=all

    • bachcole

      I believe you. I was just saying that he may very well have perfectly good reasons for not releasing every secret to his successful reactor. He has investors who expect a return on their money. They would probably tie him up in court for years if he did something like that. If we the people start stealing industrial secrets from businesses, businesses will stop having the incentive to have create and have industrial secrets: “Why invest in research and development when all of that investment will be stolen from us by the environmental red guard anyway.”

  • Bob

    Am I missing something or was there really only one question! That seems hard to believe. Perhaps the questions were not transcribed here?

    Surely someone would have asked him if the eCat test were at least “Positive or Negative”!

    His talk was nice. He mentioned Orville Wright. His talk was liken to Orville Wright, some months after Kitty Hawk, giving a speech and only stating that flight MIGHT improve travel times. What gives here? He mentioned the eCat/Rossi only in that they acquired a license?!?

    I am really confused. If Darden really wants progress in resolving pollution. If he really cares about energy scarcity. If he really wants other corporations to jump in and start spending money on LENR research…

    Then all he has to say is…. “We have a technology that is being tested… So far the tests show that we have an answer…. they are “positive not negative”… we acknowledge that once completed, these tests should prove once and for all that P&F, Rossi and others are correct……. and that an energy option is on the near horizon. All of his desires would then be tackled by a plethora of companies. He calls for cooperation and openess and yet does not even acknowledge the most advanced leader and ongoing test in the field!?!

    It must be that he is not 100% ready to endorse Rossi, which must mean that the ongoing test is not as black and white “positive” as we had hoped. Why else would he hedge his bets? I have been hoping for 4 years now that the “damn would bust” regarding Rossi and the eCat and that an unquestionable flood would sweep the skeptics away.

    ALAS! as always before, we thought the carrot to be in reach only to have that carrot be pushed forward a little more, just our of our reach and we are left hungry. I find his talk very disappointing.
    🙁

    • US_Citizen71

      I think it falls to the philosophical question of, ‘If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around does it make a sound?’. Or in this case if no major media outlet is around and you make a major announcement did it really happen? As well I believe, Darden and Industrial Heat are smart enough not to make the same mistake that Pons and Fleischmann did by announcing without being able to prove beyond doubt that they have what they say. It would not be in the least bit surprising if the contract with the customer only allows a public release of their identity and allow of a walk through of the plant after the one year test is through and conclusively shows positive results. This speech was to get Darden’s and Industrial Heat’s name further connected to LENR, so when it comes time for the announcement news editor’s will have more to Google when they are deciding to send a team to the press conference.

      • Bob

        The test has been running for six months. Believe me, if they are getting any type of COP at all (6-12), then the system has already been proven. A prototype plant may spring a leak, a controller may burn out, etc. etc. but that is not what is at question here. Longevity and prototype cost is not the issue. Is LENR/Cold Fusion real or not and at levels to be effective at industrial power levels is the question! If COP of over 6 for six months and even more recently stable SSM for lengthy periods, there is nothing left to prove on LENR! (Onlyl how much better and cost effective it can be made.)

        Darden does not have to worry about the 1989 F&P episode. He stated he is not a scientist. He is simply funding research and for good motives. Who is going to blame him for trying to find positive answers? Main stream science would lynch Rossi, but I doubt they would Darden, especially if he dangled the funding carrot some more.

        No, I personally have to believe the 1MW plant has been proven or (less likely) disproven. Six months would easily have done that. There must be something at else work here! I am very surprised and very disappointed that Darden did not give more credit to Rossi for his years of hard work and enduring slander, throw more support behind Rossi and the eCat to highlight that LENR is on the horizon. Very disappointed!

        • US_Citizen71

          So after six months it is proven but your contract says you cannot show it off until after a year. What do you do? Sit quietly and twiddle your thumbs until the whole year has passed? Or slowly begin rolling out what information you can and building street credit until you can make the big reveal?

          • Bob

            I have to side with the Hot Fusion Critics on this one! Some have said that economic feasibility is needed before anything can be said or done. Hot fusion research has had billions and not one watt of excess energy. Yet no one “hides” these projects!

            We are talking about a fundamental change in physics theory/understanding. While LENR may not go against standard theory, it certainly shows we do not have a complete understanding of the subatomic environment. It may yet, even disrupt standard theory. We simply do not know. Having a plant run for 12 months will do nothing to help explain it.

            I do not believe one has to show economic return at this point. In fact, to get the best economic return, gaining acceptance that it is real is paramount! Then the research muscle just might turn from hot fusion to LENR/Cold Fusion. Once we get significant research going, economics will scale exponentially.

            As far as the customer, what does he have to do with it? Yes, his name and location may be contractually reserved and rightly so. But Darden does not have to state anything about the customer. He could state something along the lines: “We have had a reactor running for 6 months. It has produced no polluition, no radioactivity, virtually no by products other than heat. This reactor is producing anywhere from 3 – 12 (or whatever) times the heat that the electrical input could produce. The test plant has proven that a heretofore unknown process is controllable and of a major power source. The upcoming months will bring even more information and data. All the researchers gathered here take heart. We are certain that LENR/Cold fusion/unknown term is real!”

            I am afraid I just do not see his speech of “the only goal is to solve the pollution problem” as matching his actions. I do not blame him for wanting to get a return on investment. I just cannot see why he did not support Rossi or give him more credit!

          • Axil Axil

            IH gave us the dog bone. Without the Lagano test, there would be no lithium or aluminum or alumina.

          • US_Citizen71

            “We have had a reactor running for 6 months. It has produced no polluition, no radioactivity, virtually no by products other than heat. This reactor is producing anywhere from 3 – 12 (or whatever) times the heat that the electrical input could produce. The test plant has proven that a heretofore unknown process is controllable and of a major power source. The upcoming months will bring even more information and data. All the researchers gathered here take heart. We are certain that LENR/Cold fusion/unknown term is real!” – To which you would have replied where is it? Show us some proof! I believe you’re only upset about him not basing his entire speech on Rossi because you can’t use Rossi against him. You and the several out of no where posters today I believe are most upset because Darden left you with very little room to criticize him. So instead we get fake outrage over no excessive credit being given to Rossi and Darden’s lack of making grandiose claims for what the plant is doing. With his many years in the business world it appears he has learned a thing or two about dealing with FUD slingers.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Bob, you would be right if one could trust public funding to do the right thing despite potentially strong counterlobbying. It seems to me that IH’s strategy is to be self-contained, not dependent on any external money, including the government’s. They seem to see that as a route of smaller risk and shorter delay than going through the public route. The problem with the public route is that if the government supports X, they must reduce the support of Y, which would automatically trigger counterlobbying. If the government would not be so badly in debt, the matter could be different. Then they could just add support for X.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          The process itself works (Lugano report), but they need to demonstrate feasibility of producing energy with it at a lower cost than existing methods, because otherwise their market entry would fail. In this sense, the result of the ongoing test could turn out to be positive as well as negative, and if negative, then R&D must continue further before market entry can be attempted.

        • Obvious

          How do you train an army of LENR techs,when there is no school? How do you staff your LENR company with the best, brightest, and most creative? You leave a trail of breadcrumbs, just enough for the best, brightest and most creative to work out the rest, and build a working device. The when the big reveal comes out, you load up on the successful techs and doers that have identified themselves. Then you teach what you know, and let them do their thing, working for you, fully funded and equipped, and enrich the technology in leaps and bounds. The tech spreads over the world at a breakneck speed, the lesser versions following along, becoming available to all, information spilling out along the way, but with your company two steps ahead of the crowds. Eventually smaller companies will break away, specialize, compete, and spread the knowledge further. By then, the goal has been reached.

      • pelgrim108
    • BroKeeper

      Perhaps the carrot is pushed away from Rossi as well to apply more innovative leverage and to acquire more financial support and strategy from the other players. Until then it appears he is holding the cards close to his chest until the big Royal Flush is revealed.

  • clovis ray

    Great job Tom D, very impressive, thank you for coming to the conference, and briefing us on your vision, no bringing the house down, but most interesting speech, and very forward looking, i was happy to hear your version of how the E-CAT was doing, more confirmation, and i think i hit it on the nose about tI/H holding out their hand in positive funding for replicators, Bob G have you ask for funding help from Tom D, Quick man you need to ask, in order to receive, i know of very few that needs it more than you guys, and well deserves it. I/H is the order of business of the day,Bob G if you guys can confirm a pure reproduction, that will past the test, your team will be in the lead, and with that,comes some jingle, i am sure, that lots of unexpected stuff will be spun off of this discovery, and you guys will be the ones that will have a chance to capitalize on those discovery, to further our dreams for a paradigm change as Tom has so eloquently spoken too.

  • Bob

    Am I missing something or was there really only one question! That seems hard to believe. Perhaps the questions were not transcribed here?

    Surely someone would have asked him if the eCat test were at least “Positive or Negative”!

    His talk was nice. He mentioned Orville Wright. His talk was liken to Orville Wright, some months after Kitty Hawk, giving a speech and only stating that flight MIGHT improve travel times. What gives here? He mentioned the eCat/Rossi only in that they acquired a license?!?

    I am really confused. If Darden really wants progress in resolving pollution. If he really cares about energy scarcity. If he really wants other corporations to jump in and start spending money on LENR research…

    Then all he has to say is…. “We have a technology that is being tested… So far the tests show that we have an answer…. they are “positive not negative”… we acknowledge that once completed, these tests should prove once and for all that P&F, Rossi and others are correct……. and that an energy option is on the near horizon. All of his desires would then be tackled by a plethora of companies. He calls for cooperation and openess and yet does not even acknowledge the most advanced leader and ongoing test in the field!?!

    It must be that he is not 100% ready to endorse Rossi, which must mean that the ongoing test is not as black and white “positive” as we had hoped. Why else would he hedge his bets? I have been hoping for 4 years now that the “damn would bust” regarding Rossi and the eCat and that an unquestionable flood would sweep the skeptics away.

    ALAS! as always before, we thought the carrot to be in reach only to have that carrot be pushed forward a little more, just our of our reach and we are left hungry. I find his talk very disappointing.
    🙁

    • US_Citizen71

      I think it falls to the philosophical question of, ‘If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around does it make a sound?’. Or in this case if no major media outlet is around and you make a major announcement did it really happen? As well I believe, Darden and Industrial Heat are smart enough not to make the same mistake that Pons and Fleischmann did by announcing without being able to prove beyond doubt that they have what they say. It would not be in the least bit surprising if the contract with the customer only allows a public release of their identity and allow a walk through of the plant after the one year test is through and conclusively shows positive results. This speech was to get Darden’s and Industrial Heat’s name further connected to LENR, so when it comes time for the announcement news editor’s will have more to Google when they are deciding to send a team to the press conference or not.

      • Bob

        The test has been running for six months. Believe me, if they are getting any type of COP at all (6-12), then the system has already been proven. A prototype plant may spring a leak, a controller may burn out, etc. etc. but that is not what is at question here. Longevity and prototype cost is not the issue. Is LENR/Cold Fusion real or not and at levels to be effective at industrial power levels is the question! If COP of over 6 for six months and even more recently stable SSM for lengthy periods, there is nothing left to prove on LENR! (Onlyl how much better and cost effective it can be made.)

        Darden does not have to worry about the 1989 F&P episode. He stated he is not a scientist. He is simply funding research and for good motives. Who is going to blame him for trying to find positive answers? Main stream science would lynch Rossi, but I doubt they would Darden, especially if he dangled the funding carrot some more.

        No, I personally have to believe the 1MW plant has been proven or (less likely) disproven. Six months would easily have done that. There must be something at else work here! I am very surprised and very disappointed that Darden did not give more credit to Rossi for his years of hard work and enduring slander, throw more support behind Rossi and the eCat to highlight that LENR is on the horizon. Very disappointed!

        • US_Citizen71

          So after six months it is proven but your contract says you cannot show it off until after a year. What do you do? Sit quietly and twiddle your thumbs until the whole year has passed? Or slowly begin rolling out what information you can and building street credit until you can make the big reveal?

          • Bob

            I have to side with the Hot Fusion Critics on this one! Some have said that economic feasibility is needed before anything can be said or done. Hot fusion research has had billions and not one watt of excess energy. Yet no one “hides” these projects!

            We are talking about a fundamental change in physics theory/understanding. While LENR may not go against standard theory, it certainly shows we do not have a complete understanding of the subatomic environment. It may yet, even disrupt standard theory. We simply do not know. Having a plant run for 12 months will do nothing to help explain it.

            I do not believe one has to show economic return at this point. In fact, to get the best economic return, gaining acceptance that it is real is paramount! Then the research muscle just might turn from hot fusion to LENR/Cold Fusion. Once we get significant research going, economics will scale exponentially.

            As far as the customer, what does he have to do with it? Yes, his name and location may be contractually reserved and rightly so. But Darden does not have to state anything about the customer. He could state something along the lines: “We have had a reactor running for 6 months. It has produced no polluition, no radioactivity, virtually no by products other than heat. This reactor is producing anywhere from 3 – 12 (or whatever) times the heat that the electrical input could produce. The test plant has proven that a heretofore unknown process is controllable and of a major power source. The upcoming months will bring even more information and data. All the researchers gathered here take heart. We are certain that LENR/Cold fusion/unknown term is real!”

            I am afraid I just do not see his speech of “the only goal is to solve the pollution problem” as matching his actions. I do not blame him for wanting to get a return on investment. I just cannot see why he did not support Rossi or give him more credit!

          • Axil Axil

            IH gave us the dog bone. Without the Lagano test, there would be no lithium or aluminum or alumina.

          • US_Citizen71

            “We have had a reactor running for 6 months. It has produced no polluition, no radioactivity, virtually no by products other than heat. This reactor is producing anywhere from 3 – 12 (or whatever) times the heat that the electrical input could produce. The test plant has proven that a heretofore unknown process is controllable and of a major power source. The upcoming months will bring even more information and data. All the researchers gathered here take heart. We are certain that LENR/Cold fusion/unknown term is real!” – To which you would have replied where is it? Show us some proof! I believe you’re only upset about him not basing his entire speech on Rossi because you can’t use Rossi against him. You and the several out of no where posters today I believe are most upset because Darden left you with very little room to criticize him. So instead we get fake outrage over no excessive credit being given to Rossi and Darden’s lack of making grandiose claims for what the plant is doing. With his many years in the business world it appears he has learned a thing or two about dealing with FUD slingers.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Bob, you would be right if one could trust public funding to do the right thing despite potentially strong counterlobbying. It seems to me that IH’s strategy is to be self-contained, not dependent on any external money, including the government’s. They seem to see that as a route of smaller risk and shorter delay than going through the public route. The problem with the public route is that if the government supports X, they must reduce the support of Y, which would automatically trigger counterlobbying. If the government would not be so badly in debt, the matter could be different. Then they could just add support for X.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          The process itself works (Lugano report), but they need to demonstrate feasibility of producing energy with it at a lower cost than existing methods, because otherwise their market entry would fail. In this sense, the result of the ongoing test could turn out to be positive as well as negative, and if negative, then R&D must continue further before market entry can be attempted.

        • Obvious

          How do you train an army of LENR techs, when there is no school? How do you staff your LENR company with the best, brightest, and most creative? You leave a trail of breadcrumbs, just enough for the best, brightest and most creative to work out the rest, and build a working device. The when the big reveal comes out, you load up on the successful techs and doers that have identified themselves. Then you teach what you know, and let them do their thing, working for you, fully funded and equipped, and enrich the technology in leaps and bounds. The tech spreads over the world at a breakneck speed, the lesser versions following along, becoming available to all, information spilling out along the way, but with your company two steps ahead of the crowds. Eventually smaller companies will break away, specialize, compete, and spread the knowledge further. By then, the goal has been reached.

    • Sam

      The people who spoke had 15 minutes each for speaking, and 5 minutes for answering to questions. Basically, everyone answered 3 questions each. In Tom Darden`s case the question did not – as I understand it, not come from the public, but from the moderator.

      So yes – there was only one question.

      I am sure that people would have asked many more questions if they had the chance, but they did not.

      • Omega Z

        Likely the no questions about the E-cat was by prior agreement.
        However the moderator did ask 1 not so well hidden E-cat question.
        We’ve got 1 question.
        What is you time line?

        And Darden so slyly gave no answer.

    • Brokeeper

      Perhaps the carrot is pushed away from Rossi as well to apply more innovative leverage and to acquire more financial support and strategy from the other players. As most CEO’s do, it appears he is holding the cards close to his chest until the big Royal Flush is revealed.

  • clovis ray

    Great job Tom D, very impressive, thank you for coming to the conference, and briefing us on your vision, no bringing the house down, but most interesting speech, and very forward looking, i was happy to hear your version of how the E-CAT was doing, more confirmation, and i think i hit it on the nose about I/H holding out their hand in positive funding for replicators, Bob G have you ask for funding help from Tom D, Quick man you need to ask, in order to receive, i know of very few that needs it more than you guys, and well deserves it. I/H is the order of business of the day,Bob G if you guys can confirm a pure reproduction, that will past the test, your team will be in the lead, and with that,comes some jingle, i am sure, that lots of unexpected stuff will be spun off of this discovery, and you guys will be the ones that will have a chance to capitalize on those discovery, to further our dreams for a paradigm change as Tom has so eloquently spoken too.

    • James Thomas

      I imagine that Tom D. does not offer up any money without unbreakable strings attached.
      MFMP is a stringless venture.

  • Ged

    The needs of a prototype reactor being tested and broken in are not at all the same as those of a production one.

    • clovis ray

      I/H has a very happy customer, that would mean that the mw plant is producing energy, in ever raising degrees

  • Bob

    Is Tom Darden mixing and mingling or did he leave? If possible, try to ask him a few specifics about the eCat. It does not have to be anything releasing IP, just basic questions to confirm Rossi’s very positive reports of late, such as stable SSM, high COP etc. If the customer is pleaseed so far, etc. What relationship IH and Rossi currently stand at. etc.

    Unfortunately, nothing in his talk really supported Rossi or the eCat. Without the eCat, there is no current LENR device that is even close to economical, industrial output. Without that, no other company is going to take Rossi seriously. If there is no device that is “close” to being industrial or economical, very few companies will jump in.

    I cannot understand why he would not be at least mentioning the 1MW test.

  • Mytakeis

    That was an inspiring speech and shows that people concerned with the health of the world and the health of humanity are alive and well. Rossi landed luckily in the misdst of these concerned souls. And especially thanks for putting the voice and transcript together!

  • HS61AF91

    That was an inspiring speech and shows that people concerned with the health of the world and the health of humanity are alive and well. Rossi landed luckily in the misdst of these concerned souls. And especially thanks for putting the voice and transcript together!

  • US_Citizen71

    It is a beta test, of course engineer’s are around in case something goes wrong, not for safety as much as to prevent damage to the equipment. Reality is not a simulation things may come up that you have not programmed for. If you have ever wrote any code you should understand what a beta test is. Rossi has also stated that they are doing some other tests on other hardware at the location. How much of his attention is on one or the other won’t likely be known until they decide the time is right.

  • pg

    is any high level representative of multinational companies around?

    • Robert Ellefson

      Most likely, but they have certainly not identified themselves as such, and there is no roster of attendees this year.

  • pg

    is any high level representative of multinational companies around?

    • Robert Ellefson

      Most likely, but they have certainly not identified themselves as such, and there is no roster of attendees this year.

  • mcloki

    This is the test phase. You never know when a breakdown or major discovery will happen.

  • Argson2011

    It really feels like the party never started. No alcohol served and the dj is just playing The road to nowhere by Talking Heads. On repeat.

  • Argson2011

    It really feels like the party never started. No alcohol served and the dj is just playing The road to nowhere by Talking Heads. On repeat.

  • Freethinker

    Robert,

    I sense a great deal of disappointment in what you write. I wonder if it is all that necessary for you to be disappointed.

    I don’t know. I am not at the conference. But how many conferences (scientific) have you attended? In what field? I guess it may vary between fields, but my own experience (not very excessive, but seen a few) of scientific conferences is exactly what I see in the program.

    Most people there know the field, know the participants, either personally, remote collaboration, or through their work in reports and papers. The 15 minutes are short, because there should be enough slots so as many as possible can give a chance to describe their current work, but also to force the presenters to be very concise and to the point.

    A lot of the q&a is happening behind the curtain. Much discussing may take place at poster sessions. It is therefore important to have a lot of time allotted to seemingly unimportant things, as to give time to network, mingle, discuss, make plans for new projects and collaborations. Some meeting may take place entirely out of session, even in other geographical locations in the vicinity. They will of course be out of sight for guest just there to visit and listen in.

    On of the most important results of the conference is the proceedings from the conference, where articles are printed, and that will serve as a bona fide source of informations for other to refer to in other paper further down the line. That too is not immediately visible to the visitor.

    To me this seem like a conference like any other. It’s just that the subject is so much more important to so many outside the field, than is otherwise common. And we get impatient and want real time disclosure and very high efficiency, further hoping for bombastic, positive, proclamations of undeniable success, that will save humanity.

    I still think it has the potential to be a landmark conference. Patience is a virtue. We should not forget.

    • Robert Ellefson

      Patience is a virtue, but I don’t have the time…

      I have attended a good number of engineering-related conferences, but ICCF18 was my first ‘science’ conference, and as I wrote, I calibrated my expectations based on that. I understand the importance of mingling and insider-private-session time, but this particular conference seems way out-of-balance as far as those matters are concerned. For three out of the five days there will be only one hour of presentations taking place. I’ve never heard of such paltry technical content in a conference before. Have you? I wouldn’t be so negative if this were a run-of-the-mill industry conference, instead of the leading technical conference for a field that is about to revolutionize life on earth. Seriously!

      • Freethinker

        Well, yes. Seriously. But you seem to have a good hold on what to expect.

        It is you, as an outsider, that find the time plan as a definitive short coming. Like I said, I am not there, and does not experience it first hand, but my guess is that the seemingly ineffectiveness is in real life very efficient on a plane you are not invited to or privy to observe.

        Sorry, I cannot share your pessimism in this. To me the importance is in what momentum will be gained by the scientists in the field, and collaborations forged, as a result of the conference. Not the amount of oral presentations. Hopefully the proceedings will contain a good share of important papers. Possibly Cook and Rossi will be allowed to publish something there, although they (as far as I know) only have a poster.

        Already there are important things that has taken place. Regardless what one might have hoped for content wise from Tom Darden, the mere fact that he was there was of some major, certainly non-negligible, importance.

        You are in a historical time-space at this very moment. If I were you – I know I am not – I would try to enjoy that to the fullest.

  • Globe99

    “We envision an ecosystem of collaboration with great scientists who work together to develop the many systems and technologies society will need to shift away from polluting fossil fuels.”

    “We want to work in a collaborative way with many more [challenges, charities?], and we want to help others do that.”

    “We’re collaborating with and investing alongside fellow researchers and developers.”

    BUUUT don’t ask us what’s in Rossi’s “secret sauce.” We’re not willing to do collaborate *that* far.

    What a massive hypocrite. You can’t on the one hand claim as a goal to end fossil fuels, while simultaneously concealing what is ostensibly the greatest clean-energy advance in the last millennium. IF Rossi is real and IF this man has access to Rossi’s “secret,” then he is literally a mouse click away from disclosing it and ridding the world of the fossil fuel dependence he claims to despise. The cognitive dissonance you people must labor under to hail this man as a hero is astounding.

    • roseland67

      Globe 99, dude you write like me

      • GreenWin

        Yup. It is kinda boring. And daresay, green with…??

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Really? So you want to take things from other people and give it to others? How about you set the example and give away your stuff then? Nothing stopping you from raising money and planning a HUGE field of wheat to then give away to hungry children. A wonderful child’s fable explains this issue, and it called the red hen.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smspKuKqt5c

    • Mark

      I enjoy the benefits of capitalism over everything else so far because it is in capitalism that the true spirit of sharing exists in the entrepreneur. Nothing like it in so socialist system or were stuff is given away for free because we are at bottom all selfish by nature. Capitalism helps us overcome selfishness by having entrepreneurs as this video eloquently explains:

      http://youtu.be/w6adVQrSUAc

      • Globe99

        I get why capitalism works. But there are bigger issues here than one man’s “intellectual” property, a dubious form of property to begin with… Like saving the planet from climate apocalypse.

        IF Rossi isn’t total BS, then this man holds the key to the future of clean energy and he refuses to release it because of… Why? An NDA?

    • Omega Z

      Working with multiple researchers does not give you the right to share proprietary information unless approved by both parties. You would soon find no one would work or collaborate with you. You would be shut outside the circle. You may also experience a lighting of your wallet.

      Beyond that, It would be advantages to venture into different directions of research or risk missing out on a totally new & better technique.

  • Alain Samoun

    I don’t know if anybody has mentioned it but Parkhomov is here in Padova. I even give him a cheer with my glass of champagne and he responded with a nice smile. :-)) But so far I do not see any presentation of his work at the conference.

    • Freethinker

      A late poster contribution? Have you checked? Otherwise he is there for discussing collaborations and generally do networking. To me is seem self evident that he should be there. He has kind of earned the spot.

      IN EDIT: Poster 46 ParkhomovResearch on High-Temperature Rossi Heat Source Analogue

      • Goax

        Excerpt of the poster concerning the isotopes analysis:
        “The carried-out analyses didn’t reveal considerable changes of isotope composition of fuel. It is possible that it is connected with insufficiently big duration of experiment.”

  • rats123

    Guys, have MFMP made their announcement? Did I miss it?

  • protn7

    Einstein told president Roosevelt that atomic fission would make a workable atomic bomb.

    • He also suggested the US detonates a nuclear bomb off the coast of Japan as a show of power rather than dropping it on Japanese civilians in hopes of a surrender. Sure seemed worth a try. When they didn’t listen after Hiroshima he said he regretted ever sending a letter to the White House suggesting nuclear warfare.

  • roseland67

    Globe 99, dude you write like me

    • GreenWin

      Yup. It is kinda boring. And daresay, green with…??

  • He also suggested the US detonates a nuclear bomb off the coast of Japan as a show of power rather than dropping it on Japanese civilians in hopes of a surrender. Sure seemed worth a try. When they didn’t listen after Hiroshima he said he regretted ever sending a letter to the White House suggesting nuclear warfare.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Really? So you want to take things from other people and give it to others? How about you set the example and give away your stuff then? Nothing stopping you from raising money and planning a HUGE field of wheat to then give away to hungry children. A wonderful child’s fable explains this issue, and it called the red hen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smspKuKqt5c

  • sfargonaut

    Why are so many so disappointed by Darden’s comments? Because he didn’t say what you expected him to say, or wanted him to say? If he had said these things a year or two ago, I think everyone would be cheering. ICCF 19 got everyone’s hopes up. We need to deal with the reality of what people say, not what we hope for.

  • GreenWin

    It strikes me there is a nascent fear the “secret” of LENR will be squandered by the one entity currently in the lead. Fear is the enemy, and nothing is further from the truth. Simply because the is PLENTY for everybody. And with indies (e.g. Parkhomov) and government and industry all now accelerating the pace of research and development — there will be hundreds if not thousands of variations of LENR reactors. Patience will protect premature claims and failures which will speed the benefit to all humankind.

  • GreenWin

    It strikes me there is a nascent fear the “secret” of LENR will be squandered by the one entity currently in the lead. Fear is the enemy, and nothing is further from the truth. Simply because the is PLENTY for everybody. And with indies (e.g. Parkhomov) and government and industry all now accelerating the pace of research and development — there will be hundreds if not thousands of variations of LENR reactors. Patience will protect premature claims and failures which will speed the benefit to all humankind.

  • Winebuff67

    Can anyone say that there is more activity IE….VC people,press, new research. Is there more buzz or is it just the core people??

    • Goax

      Definitely more people, and especially new ones more business oriented.

  • Winebuff67

    Can anyone say that there is more activity IE….VC people,press, new research. Is there more buzz or is it just the core people??

    • Goax

      Definitely more people, and especially new ones more business oriented.

  • Daniel Maris

    What’s with the “vindication” posts on the MFMP Facebook site and the promised announcement? I hope it’s not some silly game, because I think the whole project will lose a LOT of credit it that’s the case.

    • Ivan Idso

      Just a guess, but I think they are trying to have some fun, raise some money for the cause with some really cool items, and are holding out with some information to add suspense. I am anxious for the announcement but I also enjoy their sense of humor and sport!

      • Daniel Maris

        I don’t agree.

        Not being a grump. There are plenty of places to have a laugh and a joke. But I don’t think that’s one.

        • Josh G

          Mats Lewan is now on the ground in Padua, and he’s providing regular updates through twitter:

          https://twitter.com/hashtag/lenr?f=realtime&src=hash

          • pelgrim108

            Thanks Josh. Here is an example of Mats twitter feed.
            https://twitter.com/matslew/status/588617911033417728

          • Daniel Maris

            I am really not sure what the point is of publicising experiments involving hundredths of a watt. There would seem to be any number of candidates for an artefact effect.

          • Gerrit

            in roughly 1.5 hours the “to be defined” session will start. I fear there will be nothing but emptiness.

          • Freethinker

            Oh, not to worry. It will be filled with something, but the question is if it will even come close to any expectations there are out there.

          • Josh G

            I predict a live demonstration of a LENR-powered pizza oven. But I’ve been wrong before…

          • Ged

            I’d like one progesseroni pizza, to go, please.

          • Omega Z

            And a pint of beer. No make that a quart.
            Never mind, Just setup a keg. 🙂

            Beer & Pizza. mmmmm

          • Sanjeev

            So far, this is the most striking new discovery presented in this ICCF:
            http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1399-ICCF19-Anatoly-Klinov-energy-release-and-transmutation-in-cold-heterogeneous-pla/
            With COP of up to 10 and power levels up to 10KW at 1100°C, this tech can become very promising.

          • artefact

            cool stuff. Hopefully it can help to understand the lenr phenomenon.

          • this one by Vysotskii is a bombe too

            http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1401-ICCF19-Vladimir-Vysotskii-Biological-remediation-of-radioactive-cesium/

            the Russian Tiger is harder to understand

            http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1402-Igor-Vitalievich-Goryachev-plasma-processing-of-nuclear-waste-and-transmutations/

            and there is Russian poster with huge results, or mysterious evidences…

            That is the day of Russia at ICCF19

          • Axil Axil

            The nucleus of a radioactive isotope has extra energy in it that will be released at some time in the future at a predictable rate but with an uncertain release pattern. The way to stablize that waste is to extract and redistribute that extra energy from the excited nucleus at a certain time in a controlled manor.

            The theory on how to do this is know as Quantum energy teleportation. This theory has been experimentally verified. It works.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_energy_teleportation

            If we want to understand how LENR works, we must understand this. SO put your thinking caps on and here we go…

            The uncertainty principle has a feature called a squeezed vacuum. When the energy density between two or more particles is saturated, a condition called a Squeezed coherent state exists.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeezed_coherent_state

            When the vacuum that encloses two or more particles becomes saturated, These particles share their waveforms through the 5th dimension with out the 4 dimensional world knowing anything about it so that the particles become entangled and equal in energy

            Saying this in another way, if two or more particles are enclosed in a strong enough magnetic field, they will share energy and become entangled because the vacuum is saturated with energy. These multiple particles become essentially one particle while the vacuum is saturated.

            The energetic vacuum suppresses quantum fluctuations and decoherence is disabled. The system becomes entangled with total energy sharing

            see

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zD1U1sIPQ4

            In more detail, Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle is any of a variety of mathematical inequalities asserting a fundamental limit to the precision with which certain pairs of physical properties of a particle known as complementary variables, such as position x and momentum p, can be known simultaneously.

            When the energy of the vacuum is high enough, the position of the multiple particles become irrelevant in that space, and the particles become the same particle. This is when this set of particles share energy.

            At the end of this process, the excess energy content of excited atoms are spread around. Some isotopes will been changed but all the atoms within the confines of this patch of high energy vacuum will be stabilized.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Padua Parkhomov Fuel *GlowStick* GS2 LIVE RUN

            []=Project Dog Bone=[]

            http://youtu.be/Sr3fd3PFx8U

            There will be screengrabs in this folder

            http://bit.ly/1CUhCyl

          • artefact

            A perfect final for a very special week. Thanks.

          • Fyodor

            Thanks for running this and for all of your hard work. Have there been any useful insights from having Parkhomov involved in the experiment?

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            Sounds like you guys will have lot’s of fun tonight. It will be a late night for me again watching you guys go for it. I hope you will have a successful run.

            Big thanks from me for doing these replications.

          • Yes I could Imagine how these guys with same interests are sitting there, looking at the reactor, drinking a glass of wine or bottle of beer and gregarious and happily talking about technical stuff and insider knowledge 🙂

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            You know, if possible I would happily sit there just listening to all the techno babble, enjoying the general atmosphere and drinking all the beer 🙂

            And possibly be there as history is being written… How great it would be if there would be clear excess heat or heat after dead this time.

          • I guess Parkhomov will buy a round of russian wodka if they get heat after death 🙂

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            I imagine the MFMP team would take quite a few of those wodka’s. They have been searching so long for clear excess heat that to finally get it would be the most important milestone so far. So here’s hoping they all get madly drunk on russian wodka!

          • Ged

            What a beautiful pressure curve.

          • US_Citizen71

            Bob if you are monitoring, please have them put something dark behind the camera pointed at the VIP System 3 power meter so its display can be read better.

    • Gerrit

      I wonder if Robert Duncan spoke yesterday during the opening ceremony as was announced. Apparently, if he did, he must have said nothing of interest, because I haven’t heard anything about him yet.

      • Ged

        Yeah what’s going on about that?

        • Gerrit

          Thanks for noticing !

      • Omega Z

        Working with multiple researchers does not give you the right to share proprietary information unless approved by both parties. You would soon find no one would work or collaborate with you. You would be shut outside the circle. You may also experience a lighting of your wallet.

        Beyond that, It would be advantages to venture into different directions of research or risk missing out on a totally new & better technique.

  • pelgrim108
    • Sanjeev
      • Bob Greenyer

        No this is Nicolas Chauvins interpretation of what Dr. Parkhomov used. Having spent the evening discussing what he did use last night, this is not that.

        He used very thin steel – so thin in fact that a sewing needle was able to penetrate it easily to create the gas exchange holes. It was for 3 reasons he used thin steel

        1. easy fuelling
        2. easy extraction
        3. stop hot metals from destroying the ceramic tube integrity.

        • Sanjeev

          Thanks for the info. Do ask for data if you see him 🙂

        • Eyedoc

          ‘create the gas exchange holes’ ? so the H can contact the Alumina tube ?? Why ?

  • Freethinker

    Great. Maybe they did have a number of parallel sessions, so there were oral presentations going on all the time, often more than one at the same time? This is not uncommon for big conferences. This seem not be the case with ICCF19.

  • Gerrit

    I wonder if Robert Duncan spoke yesterday during the opening ceremony as was announced. Apparently, if he did, he must have said nothing of interest, because I haven’t heard anything about him yet.

    • Ged

      Yeah what’s going on about that?

      • Gerrit

        Thanks for noticing !

  • Ophelia Rump

    I wonder if Tom Darden was there to size up the competition or fund them?

    I get the notion that he has a super tanker sized boat load of backer interest monies for LENR ventures in an array of interest categories from investment to specific applications.

    How many rich industrialists must have approached Tom Darden about LENR by now, especially after Bill Gates visit to Italy? Maybe even Bill himself?

    It also occurs to me that Rossi may be neither of Cherokee’s original two LENR investments.

    • fritz194

      …. I think so ;-))
      What was the first company ? Defkalion ?

      • Ophelia Rump

        I would bet no on has ever heard of either of the first two.
        Mr. Darden is shy, and plays his cards close to his chest.
        Defkalion could not pay it’s phone bill. If anything that would be the one group we know he did not fund.

        Actually I listened again and Mr. Darden goes on to say after saying he funded two of the first three groups which approached him he then Licensed Andrea Rossi’s work. He continues, we continued to make grants to university groups in the space, and we continue to fund additional teams. The number of teams of LENR researchers which Cherokee has ties to is at least seven and could be close to a dozen!

        All that was before this current visit to Padua, Mr Darden appears to be collecting LENR research groups like baseball cards.

        • Hi all

          “A companies assets go up a down in the lifts” Traditional business saying 😉

          Kind Regards walker

    • timycelyn

      Indeed. How much would we know about Rossi’s work with Cherokee, if Rossi said nothing and was a shy retiring guy who hated talking to anyone? Nothing……

      • clovis ray

        Hi, Tim,.
        Could be, that is not Dr.Rossi job anymore, as lead scientist for I/H

    • Brent Buckner

      “I wonder if Tom Darden was there to size up the competition or fund them?”
      Both! But mainly the latter (read his speech as a venture capitalist pitching a room of prospects on his own suitability as a business partner).

    • lepthadrelix

      Chumming?

  • Bob Greenyer

    Vitorio Violante from ENEA said they turned on their excess heat with a 0.5-1 Tesla magnetic pulse. The machine creating the pulse was made by an undisclosed company and they do not know what was inside.

    • Ged

      Curious. Could be induction heating to start the reaction, or something new. Would be interesting to know how fast it pulses.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Jean Paul asks “have you looked for Helium 4 in your experiments”

    David Kidwell (NRL) “Let me tell you a story, we took our experiment to a lab to test for Helium, we saw the results, stood an looked at each other and said…’that can’t be right, that’s too much helium’ so we took it to another lab, got the results and said ‘that can’t be right, that’s too much helium’, so we took it to another lab, got the results and said ‘that can’t be right, that’s too much helium’… you know what I think… It’s too much Helium”

    Laughter

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Did he say how much helium there was, per eV of excess heat produced?

      • Bob Greenyer

        nope

        • Pekka Janhunen

          In that case it was just the proper amount 🙂

          • Bob Greenyer

            Dmitriyeva Olga gave a good presentation on the merits of machine learning to accelerate understanding

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      He also said that the ideal ‘lab rat’ is gas loading experimenting: reproducible, variable.
      “the kinetics say it: it (what he calls “the funky peak”) is not normal chemistry”.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Jean Paul asks “have you looked for Helium 4 in your experiments”

    David Kidwell (NRL) “Let me tell you a story, we took our experiment to a lab to test for Helium, we saw the results, stood an looked at each other and said…’that can’t be right, that’s too much helium’ so we took it to another lab, got the results and said ‘that can’t be right, that’s too much helium’, so we took it to another lab, got the results and said ‘that can’t be right, that’s too much helium’… you know what I think… It’s too much Helium”

    Laughter

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Did he say how much helium there was, per eV of excess heat produced?

      • Bob Greenyer

        nope

        • Pekka Janhunen

          In that case it was just the proper amount 🙂

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      He also said that the ideal ‘lab rat’ for LENR is gas loading experimenting: reproducible, variable.
      “the kinetics say it: it (what he calls “the funky peak”) is not normal chemistry”.

  • Gerrit
    • pelgrim108

      I made a comment on that article ( it uses Disquss): “Will they do a Rossi or Parkhomov replication attempt?”

  • Gerrit
    • pelgrim108

      I made a comment on that article ( it uses Disquss): “Will they do a Rossi or Parkhomov replication attempt?”

  • pelgrim108

    Blogger Claudio Pace has an account of the first day of ICCF19.
    + the slides of the 14.40 – 15.00 presentation by Iwamuro Yashuhiro
    http://www.claudiopace.it/iccf19-primo-giorno/
    http://www.claudiopace.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Iwamura_iccf19_Monday-1.pdf

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Good to see that Mitsubishi Heavy are still involved.

  • pelgrim108

    Blogger Claudio Pace has an account of the first day of ICCF19.
    + the slides of the 14.40 – 15.00 presentation by Iwamuro Yashuhiro
    http://www.claudiopace.it/iccf19-primo-giorno/
    http://www.claudiopace.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Iwamura_iccf19_Monday-1.pdf

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Good to see that Mitsubishi Heavy are still involved.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Dmitriyeva Olga gave a good presentation on the merits of machine learning to accelerate understanding

  • Ivan Idso

    Regarding the MFMP announcement, they had posted one of the original Fleshman cells and said it had to do with that. Last night they said they got more information pertaining to the vindication. I speculated that they sent the original F & P cell in to be analyzed and found evidence of transmutations which would vindicate F & P.
    What does everyone else think?

    • Gerrit

      Thursday afternoon is still “to be defined”, maybe the MFMP will reveal it on Thursday.

      • Ged

        Interesting, that is mysteriois. Maybe MFMP has had some insider knowledge to someone else’s success that’ll be shared then.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Ubaldo Mastromatteo has finally revealed his fusion / fission isotopic transmutation data from his laser excited thin films. Very interesting.

    • Ged

      That does sound very interesting. A lot of basic science possibilities with a laser mediated system. Thank you, Bob, for the updates.

    • Ecco

      What kind of laser exactly? A standard ruby laser, for example?

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        He-Ne Laser

        • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

          Laser

          • hi, do you know if we can get the slides…
            I missed the presentation 8( too bad

            see you this afternoon

          • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

            Can’t be there this aft – unfortunately, be there tomorrow.
            I asked the organization but they did not say that we would receive any DVD or any presentation material – at least (but this I thought was just “off the cuff”) for 90 days (?!). Maybe if many ask, some might get answers…

          • hempenearth

            Check the library here:
            http://lenr-canr.org/

  • Bob Greenyer

    Ubaldo Mastromatteo has finally revealed his fusion / fission isotopic transmutation data from his laser excited thin films. Very interesting.

    • Ged

      That does sound very interesting. A lot of basic science possibilities with a laser mediated system. Thank you, Bob, for the updates.

  • Robert Ellefson

    Well, I’m pleased to report that today was a high-quality program for this conference, with a full day of substantial technical presentations that seemed to often go longer than the 15 minutes allotted, which I appreciated.

    I also was pleased to see Tom Darden still in attendance, and had the real pleasure of a quality conversation with a close friend of his. I was assured by him that Mr. Darden is not seeking to make money from his cold fusion ventures, and is honestly striving to make the world a better place with his investments in the field. I entirely believed these statements to be genuine, and his friend’s admiration for Mr. Darden’s character and ethics were clearly apparent. I was greatly encouraged by this, and took the opportunity to plead with this friend to ask Mr. Darden to do all he could to release the E-Cat technology for worldwide development and deployment ASAP, for the sake of humanity. His response was a very kind offer to introduce me to Mr. Darden if the opportunity arises before his departure, which I was greatly encouraged by. Since they are staying in the same small hotel as me, I think I just might get my chance to plead my case before the week is out. Of course, it is quite possible, perhaps even likely, that Mr. Darden does not (yet?) have the ability to do this, if Rossi has retained much of the fundamental IP stake, but at least he is in a position of some influence over the matter. Maybe compassion will win out after all!

    • Sanjeev

      For Rossi’s tech, he used the word “licensed” not bought. I think it will be difficult to give it away without annoying Rossi and destroying all relations with him. No harm in trying though 🙂

    • Mark

      I actually never believe anyone how says they aren’t interested in making money from some endeavour. It’s like the old joke based on real surveys about asking a new medical student why they wanted to be a doctor. They give answers like, “helping sick people get well, caring for others, etc.” But when asked why their fellow students got into medicine, they often say they are in it for the money. Tom Darden is about money! That is his business!

      Also, I am glad we are getting off Tom Darden because to me what he said or says is not as important right now as what the researchers are and will be saying.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        I agree, Darden, “My goal is to give your science away, to get out broadly and equitably to the world, to see you receive honor and rewards for your efforts.” A grand and noble statement, I would like to know who is funding this goal and a little clearer picture of who is getting what, when.

  • *Tohoku Launches Condensed Matter Nuclear Reaction Division*

    “The Research Center for Electron Photon Science will conduct experiments with the aim of finding a theoretical explanation for cold fusion.”

    http://www.asianscientist.com/2015/04/academia/tohoku-university-collaborates-clean-planet-study-condensed-matter-nuclear-reaction/

  • *Tohoku Launches Condensed Matter Nuclear Reaction Division*

    “The Research Center for Electron Photon Science will conduct experiments with the aim of finding a theoretical explanation for cold fusion.”

    http://www.asianscientist.com/2015/04/academia/tohoku-university-collaborates-clean-planet-study-condensed-matter-nuclear-reaction/

    • tobalt

      that news is in fact “old” (some weeks) 😉 is it believable that we can use this adjective in conjunction with positive news already? 🙂

      • I had never heard of that magazine, so I found it interesting even if the news was old. Asia certainly is the leader in practical science that results in usable products. I am trying to monitor if there is any mainstream media coverage of the conference, but have not found anything so far.

  • Veblin

    Vanessa Zanella AKA Fit Mom at ICCF19
    Fitness Blogger, Biomedical Engineering Student at Università di Padova

    Amazing Opening Ceremony! #iccf19 #experience #openingceremony #amazing #tsem #happy
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCdrJJjWIAASO1T.jpg
    https://twitter.com/ZanellaVanessa
    https://www.facebook.com/vanessafitmom
    http://vanessafitmom.blogspot.it/

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      Veblin, great to see people like you taking interest. You have a task! It’s not only by kneeling and begging governments and the ‘agencies’ that we’re going to get your future back! It’s activism, it’s going to be people like you, divulging to the ‘Twitterati’ of the world that we want LENR to be at the forefront of all policies. Now.
      The powdered perukes’ tree needs some shakin’.

  • Veblin

    Vanessa Zanella AKA Fit Mom at ICCF19
    Fitness Blogger, Biomedical Engineering Student at Università di Padova

    Amazing Opening Ceremony! #iccf19 #experience #openingceremony #amazing #tsem #happy
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCdrJJjWIAASO1T.jpg
    https://twitter.com/ZanellaVanessa
    https://www.facebook.com/vanessafitmom
    http://vanessafitmom.blogspot.it/

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      Veblin, great to see people like you taking interest. You have a task! It’s not only by kneeling and begging governments and the ‘agencies’ that we’re going to get your future back! It’s activism, it’s going to be people like you, divulging to the ‘Twitterati’ of the world that we want LENR to be at the forefront of all policies. Now.
      The powdered perukes’ tree needs some shakin’.

  • artefact

    From MFMP:
    “Carl Page is in Padua, as is Bill Gates – apparently…”
    on Facebook

    • This would be huge!
      Carl Page (Jr) is the brother of Larry Page, founder of Google.

      Can any of the other attendees confirm this?

      • Veblin

        They are not at the conference. The rumor is a visit to the TSEM lab and some private meetings. TSEM is running this years conference. Still so far just a rumor. The picture in the article seems to be from his previous visit to ENEA.

      • Goax

        Barty, yes Carl Page is around.
        But no Bill Gates visible yet.

    • ecatworld
      • pg

        article is crap

        • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

          …wishing to extend the comment to the press in general. Where are The Guardian, The FT? Fashionably late?

      • Typical colorful Italian journalism 😉
        The picture of Gates is from another occasion, just to illustrate his connection with La Gatta.

    • artefact

      Mats, If you don’t mind:
      Mats Lewan on MFMPs Facebook page: “Not
      so much coincidence maybe. Bill Gates was the first who received my
      book, the day before it was released. A few weeks later Carl Page
      ordered 4 copies (one for himself, one for his brother Larry, one for
      Sergey and one for Elon Musk?). Would be delighted to meet them and ask
      (will arrive in Padua on Thursday).”

      • Confirm 😉

        • what is confirmed ? Carl page?

          • That Carl Page ordered four printed books from me last year.

      • And I just have to quote my book again:
        – – – – –
        A special business segment Rossi did not value much was venture capitalists. I had even heard a rumor that Carl Page, brother of Google co-founder Larry Page, had organized a meeting between Rossi and Elon Musk, super entrepreneur and founder of PayPal, Tesla Motors and SpaceX, but that Rossi had cancelled the meeting at short notice, reportedly irritating those involved. When I asked Rossi if it was true he didn’t remember any such meeting nor did he know who Elon Musk was. However, he said:

        “Some venture capitalist from California has contacted me but there is so much fraud in that industry—there are a lot of people talking about huge opportunities and availability, but then when you go into the concrete, you discover that there is a lot of fake. Then the concrete proposals are also so small that they don’t interest us. Sometimes someone has wanted to invest half a million dollars to see what happens, but you know, I already spent half a million dollars in research. We do not need them.”

        (An Impossible Invention, Chapter 18).

  • artefact

    From MFMP:
    “Carl Page is in Padua, as is Bill Gates – apparently…”
    on Facebook

    • This would be huge!
      Carl Page (Jr) is the brother of Larry Page, founder of Google.

      Can any of the other attendees confirm this?

      • Veblin

        Bill Gates is not at the conference yet or we would have heard this already. The rumor is a visit to the TSEM lab and some private meetings. TSEM is running this years conference. Still so far just a rumor. The picture in the article seems to be from his previous visit to ENEA. More proof will be needed

      • Robert Ellefson

        I don’t know what Carl Page looks like, so I don’t know if I’ve seen him or not, but I can confidently say that I have not seen Bill Gates here yet. It sure would be swell if he showed up, though!

      • Goax

        Barty, yes Carl Page is around.
        But no Bill Gates visible yet.

    • Frank Acland
      • pg

        article is crap

        • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

          …wishing to extend the comment to the press in general. Where are The Guardian, The FT? Fashionably late?

      • Typical colorful Italian journalism 😉
        The picture of Gates is from another occasion, just to illustrate his connection with La Gatta.

    • artefact

      Mats, If you don’t mind:
      Mats Lewan on MFMPs Facebook page: “Not
      so much coincidence maybe. Bill Gates was the first who received my
      book, the day before it was released. A few weeks later Carl Page
      ordered 4 copies (one for himself, one for his brother Larry, one for
      Sergey and one for Elon Musk?). Would be delighted to meet them and ask
      (will arrive in Padua on Thursday).”

      • Confirm 😉

        • what is confirmed ? Carl page?

          • That Carl Page ordered four printed books from me last year.

      • And I just have to quote my book again:
        – – – – –
        A special business segment Rossi did not value much was venture capitalists. I had even heard a rumor that Carl Page, brother of Google co-founder Larry Page, had organized a meeting between Rossi and Elon Musk, super entrepreneur and founder of PayPal, Tesla Motors and SpaceX, but that Rossi had cancelled the meeting at short notice, reportedly irritating those involved. When I asked Rossi if it was true he didn’t remember any such meeting nor did he know who Elon Musk was. However, he said:

        “Some venture capitalist from California has contacted me but there is so much fraud in that industry—there are a lot of people talking about huge opportunities and availability, but then when you go into the concrete, you discover that there is a lot of fake. Then the concrete proposals are also so small that they don’t interest us. Sometimes someone has wanted to invest half a million dollars to see what happens, but you know, I already spent half a million dollars in research. We do not need them.”

        (An Impossible Invention, Chapter 18).

  • I had never heard of that magazine, so I found it interesting even if the news was old. Asia certainly is the leader in practical science that results in usable products. I am trying to monitor if there is any mainstream media coverage of the conference, but have not found anything so far.

  • pg

    Is there anything going over unit?

  • pg

    Is there anything going over unit?

    • Goax

      Yes, but mainly from the usual teams (Celani, Violante, Bazhutov …). However, 1-2 new teams to follow. Probably more info during the week.

  • Bob Greenyer
    • hempenearth

      Wow!, exciting times indeed.
      I guess you don’t need to be reminded to make sure the palladium is fully loaded 😉

    • Andreas Moraitis

      That appears to be indeed a unique opportunity. You are going to practice ‘experimental archaeology’ with originals. Since this experiment will be extremely important with regard to the public perception of history, it might be a good idea to run first some tests with copies to reduce the risk that something goes wrong.

    • Josh G

      Major kudos to MFMP!!! I have no doubt that your integrity, philosophy and work methods are what inspired the owner to entrust you with this material.

      Biberian strikes me as an *excellent* choice to co-lead this replication attempt, since he (with Georges Longchampt) is the only person to have ever actually replicated the original F-P experiment as reported at ICCF-6. [Actually, it’s not 100% clear how directly involved he was with setting up the replication attempt. The ICCF-6 paper does not have his name on it, although a follow-up from ICCF-7 does.] It is extremely difficult to replicate experiments in exact detail without trying to ‘improve’ on them. This replication has to be done exactly the same. I hope there will be safeguards and guarantees in place to ensure that that happens. Got to make sure that Biberian doesn’t try out any ‘creative improvements’ this time around without Longchampt (deceased) to reign him in. 🙂

      Also as Melvin Miles points out in Ruby Karat’s video on the SPAWAR co-deposition experiments, the size of the cathode is critical. I don’t know how large the F-P cathodes were, but hopefully there is plenty Palladium to both analyze and use for the replication.

      Here is McKubre from the history of ICCF-6 on the previous replication attempt [http://iccf19.com/history2.htm…]:

      “Jean-Paul presented on behalf of Georges Lonchampt, Centre d’Etudes Nucleaires de Grenoble, “Reproduction of Fleischmann and Pons Experiment.” For the first time ever (before or since) somebody had taken up the task of replicating Fleischmann and Pons experiments in engineering detail without any attempts to “improve.” I will let them speak in their own words from the Proceedings of ICCF6:

      “Introduction. Since the announcement of the cold fusion phenomenon by Fleischmann and Pons in 1989, various techniques have been utilized to produce excess heat. Numerous results have been obtained that are dispersed, and even sometimes contradictory with each other.

      “Being aware of that, we have decided to “simply” reproduce the exact experiments of M. Fleischmann and S. Pons as described in their 1993 article. The purpose of our work is to ascertain the various phenomena involved and the conditions of their apparition in order to master the experiments.”

      “What a novel concept. Understand and master before you attempt to improve? Nobody else has ever managed to display this level of self-discipline — and Lonchampt et al. succeeded admirably! As Jed Rothwell notes in his otherwise fairly harsh review of ICCF6 for Infinite Energy,

      “This is exactly what cold fusion cries out for: careful, step by step replications done by people who follow directions. Biberian said that he and the other scientists in the project wanted to incorporate various ‘creative improvements’ but Lonchampt insisted on doing a precise replication with assistance from Pons and Fleischmann. That is why it worked, as Biberian cheerfully admits. It takes an engineer to do these things right. Everything about this work is superb, even the Abstract.”

      • Nigel Appleton

        Nope, don’t understand.

        When some version of LENR is commercialised, Pons and Fleischman will stand vindicated – and after all, their work has been replicated already.
        Rossi/IH are nearer than anyone else to commercialisation
        IMHO, the vast bulk of experimental LENR work should concentrate on understanding and improving the operation of the ecat and any variants anyone can dream up.

        Pioneers are most honoured in the building of new paradigms from their work – they are the giants on whose shoulders we stand.
        There is an obsession, almost cult-like at times, with the lousy way P&F were treated. It happened. It was bad and wrong. Learn. Move on. Teach othersI

        (I’m STILL amazed that following the Lugano test and its excellent fuel analysis, no-one seems to have even tried to replicate that fuel)

  • Bob Greenyer
    • hempenearth

      Wow!, exciting times indeed.
      I guess you don’t need to be reminded to make sure the palladium is fully loaded 😉

    • Andreas Moraitis

      That appears to be indeed a unique opportunity. You are going to practice ‘experimental archaeology’ with originals. Since this experiment will be extremely important with regard to the public perception of history, it might be a good idea to run first some tests with copies to reduce the risk that something goes wrong.

      • Jag Kaurah

        Right on the money – use the original to study the structure and analysis, make copies and spread that around – several replications. To determine the structure and analysis send small samples to many centres in several countries

    • Josh G

      Major kudos to MFMP!!! I have no doubt that your integrity, philosophy and work methods are what inspired the owner to entrust you with this material.

      Biberian strikes me as an *excellent* choice to co-lead this replication attempt, since he (with Georges Longchampt) is the only person to have ever actually replicated the original F-P experiment as reported at ICCF-6. [Actually, it’s not 100% clear how directly involved he was with setting up the replication attempt. The ICCF-6 paper does not have his name on it, although a follow-up from ICCF-7 does.] It is extremely difficult to replicate experiments in exact detail without trying to ‘improve’ on them. This replication has to be done exactly the same. I hope there will be safeguards and guarantees in place to ensure that that happens. Got to make sure that Biberian doesn’t try out any ‘creative improvements’ this time around without Longchampt (deceased) to reign him in. 🙂

      Also as Melvin Miles points out in Ruby Karat’s video on the SPAWAR co-deposition experiments, the size of the cathode is critical. I don’t know how large the F-P cathodes were, but hopefully there is plenty Palladium to both analyze and use for the replication.

      Here is McKubre from the history of ICCF-6 on the previous replication attempt [http://iccf19.com/history2.htm…]:

      “Jean-Paul presented on behalf of Georges Lonchampt, Centre d’Etudes Nucleaires de Grenoble, “Reproduction of Fleischmann and Pons Experiment.” For the first time ever (before or since) somebody had taken up the task of replicating Fleischmann and Pons experiments in engineering detail without any attempts to “improve.” I will let them speak in their own words from the Proceedings of ICCF6:

      “Introduction. Since the announcement of the cold fusion phenomenon by Fleischmann and Pons in 1989, various techniques have been utilized to produce excess heat. Numerous results have been obtained that are dispersed, and even sometimes contradictory with each other.

      “Being aware of that, we have decided to “simply” reproduce the exact experiments of M. Fleischmann and S. Pons as described in their 1993 article. The purpose of our work is to ascertain the various phenomena involved and the conditions of their apparition in order to master the experiments.”

      “What a novel concept. Understand and master before you attempt to improve? Nobody else has ever managed to display this level of self-discipline — and Lonchampt et al. succeeded admirably! As Jed Rothwell notes in his otherwise fairly harsh review of ICCF6 for Infinite Energy,

      “This is exactly what cold fusion cries out for: careful, step by step replications done by people who follow directions. Biberian said that he and the other scientists in the project wanted to incorporate various ‘creative improvements’ but Lonchampt insisted on doing a precise replication with assistance from Pons and Fleischmann. That is why it worked, as Biberian cheerfully admits. It takes an engineer to do these things right. Everything about this work is superb, even the Abstract.”

    • suhas R

      The conference has not fulfilled dreams of common Lenr followers
      Is anybody aware whether whether Dr Mahadeva Srinivasan from India attended the programmeIs is it possible to contact him?
      Anybody has his contact
      Suhas

      • Robert Ellefson

        Yes, he is here. I don’t have contact information for him.

        • suhas R

          I wish I could get his contact info

      • Bob Greenyer

        I spoke to him a few times, he is very happy with the recent meeting which has started a well-funded program focussing on attempting to see high excess heat first – if this is achieved they will look for an explanation.

  • Omega Z

    Likely the no questions about the E-cat was by prior agreement.
    However the moderator did ask 1 not so well hidden E-cat question.
    We’ve got 1 question.
    What is you time line?

    And Darden so slyly gave no answer.

  • Ecco

    There are a few photos from ICCF19 on Aldo Proia’s (Prometeon) Facebook page:
    https://www.facebook.com/aldo.proia.14

    Here’s Tom Darden holding a []=Dog Bone=[]
    http://i.imgur.com/HHc2qv7.jpg

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I agree, Darden, “My goal is to give your science away, to get out broadly and equitably to the world, to see you receive honor and rewards for your efforts.” A grand and noble statement, I would like to know who is funding this goal and a little clearer picture of who is getting what, when.

  • Nigel Appleton

    Nope, don’t understand.

    When some version of LENR is commercialised, Pons and Fleischman will stand vindicated – and after all, their work has been replicated already.
    Rossi/IH are nearer than anyone else to commercialisation
    IMHO, the vast bulk of experimental LENR work should concentrate on understanding and improving the operation of the ecat and any variants anyone can dream up.

    Pioneers are most honoured in the building of new paradigms from their work – they are the giants on whose shoulders we stand.
    There is an obsession, almost cult-like at times, with the lousy way P&F were treated. It happened. It was bad and wrong. Learn. Move on. Teach othersI

    (I’m STILL amazed that following the Lugano test and its excellent fuel analysis, no-one seems to have even tried to replicate that fuel)

    • clovis ray

      HI, Nigel.
      I agree, I too say, we not let the past, interrupt the present further, when a mover and shaker like Tom D says we’re on the balance point, we need to be very carful how thing’s go. this miss deed will be paid for later by those that perpetuated it, first with the very reputations they were trying to enhance.

  • pelgrim108
  • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

    Have you seen Randell Mills et als new paper that is under submission e.g.

    Mechanism of Soft X-ray Continuum Radiation from Low-Energy Pinch Discharges of Hydrogen and Ultra-low Field Ignition of Solid Fuels

    at

    http://www.blacklightpower.com/publications/

    I think that this paper is a really significant step in the scientific hydrino discussion,

    The paper is about hitting a substrate with an electron beam of low voltage but high current and examine the blast. A multitude of equipment are used, both BLP’s and Harward Astrophysical Centers. It’s unclear if the folks doing the tests was independent of each other, but it is not a big hurdle because there is nothing hidden and the experiment is reproducable and the method is clearly described so that anybody can do his own validation if the equipment is available.

    So one main thing is that this device produces high energetic photons seen in the EUV spectra that cannot according to their argument, be produced according to any known way except the hydrino formation. There have been suggestions of other reasons for this result and as I understand all those have been ruled out. This experiment is really interesting because it produces an experiment that creates EUV radiation also seen in astrophysical measurements. But also an indication that Mills is right regarding hydrinos and his theory and also something that bode well for the future. Anyway lets lists some interesting facts

    * EUV spectra does not appear in blank runs
    * EUV spectar does not appear if non catalytic specimen are used e.g. Mills can predict with his theory when we see EUV spectra or when we don’t as diffrent speciment are tried ERRATA not sure if this is shown, it all seam to depend on HOH catalysation, the metall compound is varied and he refered to a control witch did not produce a EUV spectra, why the control did not produce EUV is a bit unclear to me, but it can be that the controls was compounds with Cl.

    * It’s a reproducable experiment. Physistst shuould really try to reproduce this and call Mills bluff if he bluffs, which is highly unlikely.
    * EUV spectra is not a consequence of the welder, you need a much higher voltage to create that.
    * The EUV spectra is well explained by the hydrino theory.
    * The blast is going on although the welder is off.
    * A surplus of energy can be calculated.
    * Suggested other explanations are ruled out in arguments and targeted tests.
    * The light is very much sun like

    We’ve seen efforts to reproduce parkhomov to tell about the ecat. I would say that reproducing the experiment in Mills article would be a fine task as well to do, well in line with the higher goals in Dardens talk. Why don’t we do that, after all hydrinos could be a decent explanation of a good part of LENR results, but not all if the results of the ECAT is spot on (too high energy density). Also as a side remark pekkas recent remark on rossis journal is interesting new twist to why we don’t see radiation, whether true is another matter.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      What does a “blank run” mean in this context? Did they test the „catalytic specimen“ in absence of hydrogen?

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        They did quite a lot of variations. But If I remembered correctly there was one with helium and that could perhaps be refered to a blank run.

        • clovis ray

          Hi, fellow big thinkers, wouldn’t it be great, if we invite all that are building a reactor, that when they have all there ducks in a row, to come and present their working device, in video, and along with all necessary date, that will prove excess heat. here to the ECW community for our opinion, I can promise if it passes muster here, you can not get a better recommendation, and it will be a big help in the credibility department, so if you are serious and think your reactor is ready, give us a try, and save your self a possible embarrassment, before the world, so what say ye , o humble but noble e-cat world , community,
          P.S. we need a new name, like E “waws, yea,

    • pelgrim108

      This Harvard research is from 2010. So I dont get it. They found only hydrinos could explain the data and then never talked about it again?
      http://www.blacklightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/GEN3_Harvard.pdf

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        The referred article is under submission. So I would assume that it includes a more thorough argument for its sake as well as new tests done. Of cause you will find the old 2010 results as well included and they refer to that in the article. Anyhow if anyone can find a hole in their argument the merrier because then the discussion will continue as should be in a good discusison.

    • Axil Axil

      This technique of producing nano structure is very much like what Ken Shouhers has done in his EV experiments. There, the electric discharge produces a plasma that cools into a cloud of nanoparticles as also happens in the hydrogen envelope of the Hot cat. These particles produce surface plasmon polaritons from which anaopole magnetic beams are produced. The XUV radiation is produced by the SPP solitons that are 3 nanometers in diameter. This provides a 10 nn wavelength for the EMF released when the SPP soliton explodes in a Bosenova as per DR. Kim.

      The Hot Cat also produces XUV and so does cavatation. This is all standard cold fusion.

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        Hydrino theory says no XUV for speciment, experminents show no XUV for speciment. Hydrinos theory say XUV for speciment, experiment show XUV for speciment. Can standard cold fusion theory immitate that trick?

        • Axil Axil

          Yes, Mills is producing arc induced SPPs in this system as do many other kinds of LENR systems. DGT has done this in their system. Also true for the Papp engine.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            Let me explain, the key is to have a catalyst for the hydrino reaction, e.g. you need to temporally excite the catalyst with the right amount of energy. Now not all elements have the right excitation energy and then no hydrino reaction can be enabled. So Milles et all tried swaping the catalyst and they showed a perfect match between catalysts and non catalysts and the measured EUV spectra. So you have another theory that explain the EUV, I would like to see how that theory can predict the outcome of the measured EUV. As far as I can understand the standard cold fusion theory is not that precise.

          • Axil Axil

            Nanoplasmonics explains this. When any given element is vaporized, it will condense into a nanoparticle of various sizes based on its magic number. See Rydberg matter

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rydberg_matter

            Usually, hydrogen is required to produce small particles that are able to generate the XUV wavelength of EMF/

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            Do you say that the magic number co-inside with the ionisation energy of the catalyst? I would say that they don’t and that you can separate the two hypothesises through the test Mills et al did and hence support Mills hypothesis.

          • Axil Axil
          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            I cannot see a covariation between the magic number and excitation energy. Also this article refers to the MHz range, not EUV.

          • Axil Axil

            With all due respect, If you want to understand overunity technology, I suggest that you spend more time trying to understand nano science and less time understanding Mills science.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            With all due respect I do understand that the excitation energy of the catalyst atom is a different concept then the magic number. I also hear that you say that the the formation of EUV is dependant on the magic number acording to your hypothesis. And Mills theory says that depends on the excitation energy. ERGO if you do a series of experiments, you can decide which of the hypothesis is true. That’s logic. Mills have done that and showed that it matches his theory. I would say that most probably his theory is right in this contest. Of cause nanotheory can play a role as a secondary effect regarding energy packet transformation and put it’s mark on the measurements, but it does look like hydrino formation are the main cause to me.

          • Axil Axil

            The magic number is a measure of the size of the nanoparticle, the higher the number, the bigger the particle. It is also reflective of the excitation level of the particle formation process.

            The aggregation of particles produce the interparticle connection points that produce the EMF that produce the anapole magnetic beams. This is all standard science. The size of the solitons formed in between these nanoparticles is a measure of the EMF frequency that is released when the soliton explodes.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            And how is the excitation level of the particle formation process related to the individual atoms excitation level. But I did check which compounds showed an effect, it was Cu, Ti, Ni, the ones that did not show an effect was Ca and Zn from the same row in the periodic table does Cu Ti Ni have the same magic number and have Ca and Zn a different one?

          • Axil Axil

            Ti and Ni are excellent reflectors of infrared light. This is optimum for the production of SPPs. Cu not so much. Ca does not make good lenr particles because it is not a transition metal. There is a magnetic requirement also involving the curie temperature. This might take Zn out of the running.

          • Roland

            Something I find notable about Mills is that he began with theory, which led to two verified and very counter-intuitive cosmological predictions of singular import, and that the hydrino technology and data that have emerged (also independently verified) arose out of Mills’ determination to validate a very broad theoretical construct with a practical demonstration by making hydrinos in the laboratory, thereby confounding his critics with hard evidence.

            I find the mutual rejection of each others work, on the part of both Mills and Rossi, fascinating in the respect that both proponents refuse to accept the hard data generated by the other, despite independent validation by third parties of both data sets.

            One can only presume that there is either a massive clash of egos, not a stretch given the personalities involved, or that the commercial tensions between two emergent technologies that appear to be well ahead of the pack have led to a certain degree of obfuscation, or obdurateness, by both parties.

            I expect the conflict to play out in the market place in the near future, and possibly continue for some time, with a slight edge to Mills as his technology will generate electricity straight out of the starting gate even though Rossi has the first product placed.

          • pelgrim108

            You ignored the question.

    • tlp

      Definitely this experiment should be reproduced. It is more difficult with those high currents and detecting EUV spectra, so it needs to be done in physics laboratory. But that’s why those laboratories are.

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        And they need grants and support to actually do it.

  • clovis ray

    Alan Smith, good to hear you are there, this will be good, you know how to get at the good stuff, thanks, and good hunting.

  • Axil Axil

    RF along with heat and XUV are all types of EMF that are expected to be produced from a magnetically based LENR system. RF comes from NMR active material in the reactor when non zero spin atoms are excited by magnetism.

    See

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_magnetic_resonance

    • Andre Blum

      Not sure what triggered you to write this, but I understand RF (‘frequencies’, ‘GHz’) in the context of update #4 was meant as a wilfully introduced input to catalyze the reaction. Not as an resulting output of the reaction.

      • Axil Axil

        Re: “Along with several other speakers he has detected RF emissions (broad spectrum) from his systems.”

        • Andre Blum

          okay, got it. thanks!

          • Axil Axil

            One of the tests that will show that a LENR reaction is active is the detection of RF.

  • georgehants

    While all you guys are doing this Wonderful unpaid work in your spare time, what are all the Western university’s doing beside spending all their time and money trying to decide if the planet Pluto is a planet or not, etc.
    Must be Wonderful to be a high pension receiving religious “opinion expert” after spending a working life doing nothing but giving declarations that Cold Fusion etc. is junk.

    • Freethinker

      🙂

      • hempenearth

        Hi Alan,
        Thanks for the report, any sign of the Norman Cook presentation?

        • georgehants

          Whoever controls the media, controls the mind.
          Jim Morrison
          ——–
          Reality is an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
          Albert Einstein

          • Gerrit

            who controls your mind George ? 🙂

          • georgehants

            Gerrit, in this illusion I am very much of the opinion that only I control my Mind.
            I am not here to be brainwashed or follow any propaganda from any source
            I believe we all have a Mind that allows us total freewill, if we choose to use it.
            I do not take crap from presidents, prime ministers, scientists, pope’s or gods, I am proud to “believe” I think for myself only, which means one must have a very open, honest and discriminating outlook.
            🙂

          • Omega Z

            George
            Sorry. Your just part of an Alien simulation. All our decisions are determined by a random number generator. Which in reality, isn’t random, but organized chaos. Those blurred images we sometimes catch out of the corner of our eye are artifacts cause by video lag. Yeah, A technical issue they also have problems with.

            Deja vu: Knowing beforehand. Caused by a blue screen of death in the Sim. System rebooted to a point before the problem arose that caused the blue screen of death. We’re not psychic. We really are reliving the moment. 🙂

          • georgehants

            Omega Z, Interesting that you are giving an “opinion” as if you know it is Fact.

          • Omega Z

            Don’t push my buttons George.
            I’ll have to hit the Reset button & restart in safe mode.
            You can be deleted…
            🙂

          • pelgrim108

            Any cheatcodes you know of? 🙂

          • Omega Z

            None that I’m aloud to share. I could lose my security clearance.
            The Supreme Asgard commander is a stickler about these things. 🙂

    • GreenWin

      George, isn’t it a good thing to see so many new posters here? Seems this little enterprise of Frank’s and a handful of loyalists (non-traditional loyalists) have built quite a nice city. In keeping with your finest sentiment George… Wonderful day!

  • georgehants

    While all you guys are doing this Wonderful unpaid work in your spare time, what are all the Western university’s doing beside spending all their time and money trying to decide if the planet Pluto is a planet or not, etc.
    Must be Wonderful to be a high pension receiving religious “opinion expert” after spending a working life doing nothing but giving unfounded declarations that Cold Fusion etc. is junk.

    • Freethinker

      🙂

    • GreenWin

      George, isn’t it a good thing to see so many new posters here? Seems this little enterprise of Frank’s and a handful of loyalists (non-traditional loyalists) have built quite a nice city. In keeping with your finest sentiment George… Wonderful day!

  • Gerrit

    [OT] Eurekalert carries the Tohoku LENR press release.

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-04/tu-eps041415.php

  • Josh G

    Not news, but still interesting, from the ICCF-19 website “welcome” page announcement from Antonio La Gatta http://iccf19.com/welcome.html:

    “TSEM is the first private company to independently host ICCF and, as Founder and President, I’m proud to promote a science and be part of an organization that will certainly have significant impact both in the short and long term on everyday life….

    “Another innovation within ICCF-19 is the establishment of a new committee: The Engineering Applications Committee. The EAC appointees are engineers and investors whose goal is to form a bridge between academia and industry thereby encouraging the generation of products derived from years of scientific research.

    “Researchers will meet companies seeking to form cooperative partnerships to encourage technological development and industry formation. Research is critical and it is now time to look towards market readiness for CMNS and all its related technologies.”

  • Josh G

    Not news, but still interesting, from the ICCF-19 website “welcome” page announcement from Antonio La Gatta http://iccf19.com/welcome.html:

    “TSEM is the first private company to independently host ICCF and, as Founder and President, I’m proud to promote a science and be part of an organization that will certainly have significant impact both in the short and long term on everyday life….

    “Another innovation within ICCF-19 is the establishment of a new committee: The Engineering Applications Committee. The EAC appointees are engineers and investors whose goal is to form a bridge between academia and industry thereby encouraging the generation of products derived from years of scientific research.

    “Researchers will meet companies seeking to form cooperative partnerships to encourage technological development and industry formation. Research is critical and it is now time to look towards market readiness for CMNS and all its related technologies.”

  • What kind of a device do you need to attach to the heating coils to create an oscillating current/signal in the gigahertz range? Is there an off the shelf device that you can tune at will, or would this be a custom-only device?

    • Obvious

      An FCC licence?

    • US_Citizen71

      You would need essentially a high power radio transmitter to provide the power. WiFi is currently using 2.4GHz and 5GHz as example. I’m not sure you need to go quite that high as the resonance frequency for hydrogen is 1.42GHz. I would assume that was what was being discussed as a possible input frequency.

      • Omega Z

        It is likely heat is used to initiate the Rossi effect.
        The RF is used to maintain/stimulate the moments of SSM when heat is not directly applied. What material & how much is required to shield 1.42GHz signals.

        Note that Rossi never allows them to analyze the contents of his control box. Only that it can’t possibly contain anything that could produce the amount of energy produced by the reactor. RF generators aren’t that big. The Reactor would only be the receiver. Not a transmitter.

        • US_Citizen71

          I thought Christopher Calder was asking what it would take to power the heater with high frequency, that is what my answer was based on. A low power signal would be understandable for use during SSM as it would fit what Rossi has stated in the past. The Lugano Test wouldn’t have needed it since it was always powered so that would have allowed IH to keep that trade secret by not using it. Might be the answer. Hydrogen can be agitated enough to break an ionic bound by radio frequency according to the leading theory of how John Kazius’ salt water burning demonstration worked. I think the energy equivalent of that bond of hydrogen to oxygen would go a long way towards reaching levels that could begin to mess with the coulomb barrier. Rossi may have a better frequency as well.

          • Nicholas Cafarelli

            By adding additional heating wire they can go forward WITHOUT a variac. The extra wire consumes additional power. It should be positioned so that it does NOT heat the reactor – just mount it a distance away, in series. An alligator clip or a wiper contact can vary the amount of wire in the circuit.

            Support my replication: http://www.gofundme.com/l6dfxg

            Checkout my blog: http://ni.comli.com

          • Bob Greenyer

            We have considered this, we have a doggone with us – this will lower the power applied to the core.

            I guess getting more resistance wire would be easier and we could wrap it around the dog bone.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, I got distracted & posted more then necessary.
            On the Lugano test. They didn’t use the intermittent setup to minimize the complexity of calculating the COP.
            According to Rossi, The continuous mode bypasses the mouse & on/off SSM.(Note the mouse stimulates the SSM.) The COP would be substantially higher.

  • What kind of a device do you need to attach to the heating coils to create an oscillating current/signal in the gigahertz range? Is there an off the shelf device that you can tune at will, or would this be a custom-only device?

    • Obvious

      An FCC licence?

    • US_Citizen71

      You would need essentially a high power radio transmitter to provide the power to the heating coil. WiFi is currently using 2.4GHz and 5GHz as an example. I’m not sure you need to go quite that high as the resonance frequency for hydrogen is 1.42GHz. I would assume that was what was being discussed as a possible input frequency. But, at that high of frequency the Frackin’ Magic that is FM will bring all kinds of factors into play including the inductance of the heating coil. Many of the tests describe their high power to be 300-900 watts, a 1.42GHz signal at that power will throw off all sorts of sidebands that would interfere with everything from TVs to cellphones. You wouldn’t be popular with your neighbors if you ran it for multiple days straight. Plus at that power I believe the signal would be similar to a microwave oven, cooking things close by. I’m not an expert at high frequency, where’s Tesla when you need him.

      • I am really not qualified to have an opinion on these technical matters, but I would guess the Rossi device is a hell of allot simpler and the reaction may involve magnetic stimulation causing secondary acoustic stimulation. I doubt the frequency has to be that high.

      • Omega Z

        It is likely heat is used to initiate the Rossi effect.
        The RF is used to maintain/stimulate the moments of SSM when heat is not directly applied. What material & how much is required to shield 1.42GHz signals.

        Note that Rossi never allows them to analyze the contents of his control box. Only that it can’t possibly contain anything that could produce the amount of energy produced by the reactor. RF generators aren’t that big. The Reactor would only be the receiver. Not a transmitter.

        • US_Citizen71

          I thought Christopher Calder was asking what it would take to power the heater with high frequency, that is what my answer was based on. A low power signal would be understandable for use during SSM as it would fit what Rossi has stated in the past. The Lugano Test wouldn’t have needed it since it was always powered so that would have allowed IH to keep that trade secret by not using it. Might be the answer. Hydrogen can be agitated enough to break an ionic bound by radio frequency according to the leading theory of how John Kazius’ salt water burning demonstration worked. I think the energy equivalent of that bond of hydrogen to oxygen would go a long way towards reaching levels that could begin to mess with the coulomb barrier. Rossi may have a better frequency as well.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, I got distracted & posted more then necessary.
            On the Lugano test. They didn’t use the intermittent setup to minimize the complexity of calculating the COP.
            According to Rossi, The continuous mode bypasses the mouse & on/off SSM.(Note the mouse stimulates the SSM.) The COP would be substantially higher.

  • triple helix

    There was a mention here of Dr. Norman Cook speaking Tuesday. Did he?

  • hempenearth

    Hi Alan,
    Thanks for the report, any sign of the Norman Cook presentation?

  • rats123

    Has anyone at ICCF19 produced incontrovertible evidence of excess heat from the LENR process?

    • hempenearth

      Check the library here:
      http://lenr-canr.org/

    • Alex Ruiz

      No, no incontrovertible evidence of USEFUL excess heat from LENR processes.

      • Omega Z

        Has anyone at ICCF19 produced incontrovertible evidence of excess heat from the LENR process?

        The answer is YES.

        “USEFUL excess heat” Is a different question all together.
        Your manipulating the conversation.

    • Josh G

      The community of scientists who present at ICCF 19 long ago produced incontrovertible evidence of excess heat from the LENR process. Mostly they have been concerned with a) proving that it is nuclear in nature [which they succeeded doing so early on] and b) trying to understand and manipulate/control it.

      Some rumination: after the F&P announcement in 1989, many many scientists rushed to see if they could get similar results with more-or-less similar methods (would not go so far as to say exact replication). Most of the scientists who have been involved in LENR research since 1989 are those who got positive results early on. The ones who got negative results (or ignored the positive results that they did get, such as at MIT), did not stay involved. Not coincidentally, there seems to be a close correlation between “open-mindedness” and positive replication vs. “close-mindedness” and negative replication. The most closed-minded scientists created a self-fulfilling prophecy by never really giving it much of a chance to succeed and ignoring or discounting evidence that did not support their conclusion (and even pronouncing it dead before they even got the results of their own studies, simply because they “knew” CF was impossible). This report from Eugene Mallove provides a blow-by-blow description of the “scientific infanticide” of cold fusion: http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/mitcfreport.pdf

    • mark

      Only mass produced working plants on the market will solve the pathoskeptics issue. They have no choice but to buy one home themselves.

  • Ged

    No Day 3 updates I take it? Also, indeed, I’d love to hear any information on Dr. Norman Cook. Hope it’s going well over there still–looking forward to whatever fills the undefined spots in tomorrow.

  • Robert Ellefson

    Day three had a one-hour program in the afternoon with four presentations. Norman Cook did not present. I participated in the morning tour of Padua, which featured old buildings and churches, and related history. The four presentations included a talk about some of the history of explosions in LENR experiments, a talk about deep-Dirac states of hydrogen, a talk about factors affecting palladium loading, and a talk about analysis of electrochemical behavior of wet cells.

    • Ged

      Thanks for the update! Those last two talks are potentially usefully. We may be on nickel and not palladium now, but theory wise, comparing the two is very important; and factors in palladium cells have implications for improving nickel.

  • Josh G

    Alain confirms on lenr-forum that Carl Page, Jr. is there, as well as Lowell Wood, who is a scientific adviser to Bill Gates and accompanied him on his visit to ENEA a few months back. I have a suspicion that the most interesting and exciting things happening at ICCF-19 are going on behind closed doors.

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1373-Carl-Page-brother-of-Google-co-founder-Larry-Page-in-Padua/?postID=3927#post3927

    EDIT: Perhaps worth mentioning that both Lowell Wood and Peter Hagelstein worked on the SDI program under Edward Teller back in the 1980s at Lawrence Livermore Labs. Seems likely that they worked on developing x-ray lasers together:

    On Wood: “He collaborated on the development of x-ray lasers, and has been an advocate for their further development and application in the laboratory. He is best known for his role in the design, development and early-stage testing of space-based defenses against ballistic missile attack.”
    http://www.agci.org/programs/past_workshop_participants/about_the_scientist/participant_details.php?recordID=4717

    On Hagelstein: “Hagelstein’s early work focused on extreme ultraviolet and soft X-ray lasers, relativistic atomic structure and electron collision physics, autoionization and dielectronic recombination processes, plasma population kinetics, radiation transport and large scale physics simulation. He received the Ernest Orlando Lawrence Award in 1984 for his innovation and creativity in X-ray laser physics. While working in the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory he pioneered the work that later produced the first X-ray laser, which would later become important for the US Strategic Defense Initiative, popularly referred to as the “Star Wars” program.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_L._Hagelstein

    • Roland

      A casual conversation between Lowell Wood and Tom Darden over aperitifs…

    • things happen beside the cofee machine,
      and in soon to came meeting.

      I’m afraid I will have to learn a new alphabet (or many more)

    • Indeed the scrums are where the most interesting things happen.

  • Josh G

    Mats Lewan is now on the ground in Padua, and he’s providing regular updates through twitter:

    https://twitter.com/hashtag/lenr?f=realtime&src=hash

  • georgehants

    Whoever controls the media, controls the mind.
    Jim Morrison
    ——–
    Reality is an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
    Albert Einstein

    • Gerrit

      who controls your mind George ? 🙂

      • georgehants

        Gerrit, in this illusion I am very much of the opinion that only I control my Mind.
        I am not here to be brainwashed or follow any propaganda from any source
        I believe we all have a Mind that allows us total freewill, if we choose to use it.
        I do not take crap from presidents, prime ministers, scientists, pope’s or gods, I am proud to “believe” I think for myself only, which means one must have a very open, honest and discriminating outlook.
        🙂

        • Omega Z

          George
          Sorry. Your just part of an Alien simulation. All our decisions are determined by a random number generator. Which in reality, isn’t random, but organized chaos. Those blurred images we sometimes catch out of the corner of our eye are artifacts cause by video lag. Yeah, A technical issue they also have problems with.

          Deja vu: Knowing beforehand. Caused by a blue screen of death in the Sim. System rebooted to a point before the problem arose that caused the blue screen of death. We’re not psychic. We really are reliving the moment. 🙂

          • georgehants

            Omega Z, Interesting that you are giving an “opinion” as if you know it is Fact.
            But just as good an opinion as any, 🙂
            Certainly better than the scientific half-wits that go around saying science knows there is no creator for example.

          • Omega Z

            Don’t push my buttons George.
            I’ll have to hit the Reset button & restart in safe mode.
            You can be deleted…
            🙂

          • pelgrim108

            Any cheatcodes you know of? 🙂

          • Omega Z

            None that I’m aloud to share. I could lose my security clearance.
            The Supreme Asgard commander is a stickler about these things. 🙂

  • Gerrit

    in roughly 1.5 hours the “to be defined” session will start. I fear there will be nothing but emptiness.

    • Freethinker

      Oh, not to worry. It will be filled with something, but the question is if it will even come close to any expectations there are out there.

      • Josh G

        I predict a live demonstration of a LENR-powered pizza oven. But I’ve been wrong before…

        • Ged

          I’d like one progesseroni pizza, to go, please.

          • Omega Z

            And a pint of beer. No make that a quart.
            Never mind, Just setup a keg. 🙂

            Beer & Pizza. mmmmm

  • Robert Ellefson

    The day’s oral presentations have ended. Parkhomov gave a presentation to about 100 people crowded around his poster, in a very noisy environment filled with other conversations. I asked two people who I presume to be informed about behind-the-scenes matters, and one person said that the organizers did not want to make a special exemption to allow Parkhomov to present onstage, while the other (likely more-knowledgeable about specifics) said that Parkhomov declined an invitation to speak on stage, and had to be persuaded to attend at all. I could not hear the presentation, but apparently it included one preliminary elemental fuel vs. ash analysis (no isotope data) that will be reposted soon.

  • Robert Ellefson

    The day’s oral presentations have ended. Parkhomov gave a presentation to about 100 people crowded around his poster, in a very noisy environment filled with other conversations. I asked two people who I presume to be informed about behind-the-scenes matters, and one person said that the organizers did not want to make a special exemption to allow Parkhomov to present onstage, while the other (likely more-knowledgeable about specifics) said that Parkhomov declined an invitation to speak on stage, and had to be persuaded to attend at all. I could not hear the presentation, but apparently it included one preliminary elemental fuel vs. ash analysis (no isotope data) that will be reposted soon.

  • Josh G

    Mats can you offer any more details on Goryachev’s Tiger reactor?

    From two of Mats recent tweets:

    1. Alexander Gromov reminds about the influence on #LENR by Russian scientists such as Boris PolotovIgor

    Here is an interesting overview of Russian involvement in LENR, transmutation and other experiments from ICCF-9 from lenr-canr.org: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GoryachevIorganizati.pdf

    The author of that overview is the subject of another of Mats’ tweets:

    2. Igor Vitalievich Goryachev describes ‘Tiger’ #LENR reactor on 10 MW. Presents experiments on remediating nuclear waste.

    Goryachev is/was associated with the Kurchatov Institute in Moscow and with Environmental Energy Resources LLC in Israel. Here is a youtube video from the company:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZMTgniuD9o

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      May I just say, I think we all enjoyed this slide?

      • artefact

        well.. yes 🙂

  • Josh G

    Mats can you offer any more details on Goryachev’s Tiger reactor?

    From two of Mats recent tweets:

    1. Alexander Gromov reminds about the influence on #LENR by Russian scientists such as Boris PolotovIgor

    Here is an interesting overview of Russian involvement in LENR, transmutation and other experiments from ICCF-9 from lenr-canr.org: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GoryachevIorganizati.pdf

    The author of that overview is the subject of another of Mats’ tweets:

    2. Igor Vitalievich Goryachev describes ‘Tiger’ #LENR reactor on 10 MW. Presents experiments on remediating nuclear waste.

    Goryachev is/was associated with the Kurchatov Institute in Moscow and with Environmental Energy Resources LLC in Israel. Here is a youtube video from the company:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZMTgniuD9o

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      May I just say, I think we all enjoyed this slide?

      • artefact

        well.. yes 🙂

  • Gerrit

    Day 4 is over – no major news

  • Gerrit

    Day 4 is over – no major news

  • georgehants

    Triangle Business Journal
    Darden: Cold fusion-focused Industrial Heat showing ‘some success’
    Lauren K. OhnesorgeStaff Writer- Triangle Business Journal
    It’s a Raleigh company at the center of worldwide speculation: Cold fusion research firm Industrial Heat.
    This week, Tom Darden, CEO of Raleigh-based Cherokee
    and a co-founder of the startup, which aims to offer energy
    alternatives to coal, reiterates that Industrial Heat could save the
    world – and that he’s not afraid of losing money for the sake of
    research.
    He told a group of scientists gathered for the International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science this week that we need to turn the car around – and quickly – in order to save the world from smog.
    Read more —
    http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/techflash/2015/04/darden-cold-fusion-focused-industrial-heat-showing.html

  • georgehants

    Triangle Business Journal
    Darden: Cold fusion-focused Industrial Heat showing ‘some success’
    Lauren K. OhnesorgeStaff Writer- Triangle Business Journal
    It’s a Raleigh company at the center of worldwide speculation: Cold fusion research firm Industrial Heat.
    This week, Tom Darden, CEO of Raleigh-based Cherokee
    and a co-founder of the startup, which aims to offer energy
    alternatives to coal, reiterates that Industrial Heat could save the
    world – and that he’s not afraid of losing money for the sake of
    research.
    He told a group of scientists gathered for the International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science this week that we need to turn the car around – and quickly – in order to save the world from smog.
    Read more —
    http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/techflash/2015/04/darden-cold-fusion-focused-industrial-heat-showing.html

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    ..meanwhile Bloomberg cites a “clean revolution”, about to cause Big Oil “to lose control of the auto industry”….http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-16/big-oil-is-about-to-lose-control-of-the-auto-industry

    • Omega Z

      I see a lot of gobbledygook in this Bloomberg article. When someone uses national data interspersed with international data, it is suspect of manipulation. It’s similar to someone intermingling percentages & hard numbers to prove he made you a profit. You probably didn’t.

      Electric cars: Although Cleaner as to total CO2, Not clean. CO2 is still emitted. Just not at the tailpipe. As Darden says, Just less bad.
      Hydrogen fuel cells: Some interesting developments in hydrogen production research, but until that comes to market, Overall it creates more CO2. Just not at the tailpipe.

      I don’t know what numbers he selected to use for his 0.5% of sales. What I do know is total world E-car sales was projected at 400K for 2014. Did they achieve that? I don’t have the numbers yet, but 400K falls far short of 0.5% of car production of 75/80 million. Give it about 2.75% due to unknown factors.

      A Rosie picture: A 60% average improvement in fleet mileage. Manufactures promote this number to show improvement to keep the government from pushing more mandates. The Government agrees with this number to say that their mandates worked. No reason to question these numbers. Right?

      No doubt, the numbers have improved. Just not what they claim. My new vehicle gets better mileage, but if I’m a business, I may have additional vehicles. I burn more gas.

      Fact, Improved mileage, The Economies tanked, And overall oil demand declined only about 2%. The numbers do not add up as portrayed. The media is used to hype things up in hopes of actually making it real. You tell people they are happy often enough, long enough, Maybe they will believe it. And it’s a fact. Some of them will believe it. That’s why they do it.

      I don’t know about you, but I get tired of the twisted data, out right lies & hidden agendas.

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        You are right, we keep getting manipulated data and interpretations that might have a reason to be displayed the way they are.
        The article appears to venture somewhere less usual, to me. It seems like an introduction to more in this direction. Chanting a different tune can’t happen all of a sudden.

      • EEStorFanFibb

        The article and headline present a very sound argument. The ICE and supporting systems can’t compete with an electric motor drive train on performance, reliability, efficiency, quietness, vibration, and cost. It’s not even close.

        And on a total cost of ownership basis over 5 years, EVs are already cheaper (because electricity is much cheaper than gasoline) while being superior all around machines. As battery costs drop (as they already have done) the case for ICE’s and gasoline get worse and worse and worse.

        I think the article is bang on. The automotive industry is soon poised to flip in just a few years. I doubt anyone will be selling new ICE propelled passenger vehicles in 2025.

        BMW executives have already announced that the ICE will soon be regulated to only being electricity generators on passenger vehicles in the not too distant future. And most cars won’t even need that when batteries hit $100/kWh in 2020 or sooner.

        All ICEs and gasoline have going for them is inertia. nothing else.

        • Omega Z

          I’m sorry Fibb, We’ve had this conversation before.
          I fully agree about Electric cars 30+ years ago. It is the batteries that don’t measure up. Even Musk puts a question mark on the $12K battery pack price & he’s squeezing it for all it’s worth. Eliminating all middle people & cutting the supply chain. Battery factory to car.

          Aside from batteries not up to speed, 90% plus of the lithium comes from China of which they already announced they are going to slowly stop exporting. You want lithium batteries, buy them from China.

          It takes on average 15 plus years to open a new lithium mine once you know where the deposits are. Incidentally, the U.S. has a shut down rare earths mine that happens to also contain lithium. They’ve been scrambling to get it back into production for the last 4 years. They hope to have it in production before 2020, but wont be in full production until about 2025. At that time, it is thought that it may provide about 75% of today’s U.S. demand. Not future increases.

          There is a reason Elon Musk chose Nevada for his Mega battery plant. It is only a couple 100 miles from that Lithium mine. They also don’t have a state income tax in Nevada so works out well in keeping prices down & savings on shipping.

          Musk hopes the Mega plant is in production by 2017. It may take longer. The plant itself wont be totally completed until 2025. That’s a 1/2 million batteries a year, more then doubling world wide production. We need 158 more of those 7/10 Billion$ Mega plants(That take about 10 years to complete) to meet car production(80M) plus more plants for replacement battery capacity.

          Lithium, like Oil, is a commodity. If you increase demand 100 fold, how high will the price of Lithium go. If your a battery manufacturer & need it to stay in business, As high as the car market will bear. The Lithium from the U.S. mine will already cost more then China’s just to get it out of the ground. Musk is counting on a shorter supply chain to make it competitive. That and more expensive is better then none if China shuts of the export of lithium as planned.

          Car manufactures wont switch over to all electric car production unless they know that the battery supply is permanent & stable. It costs lots of money to repeatedly shut down, then ramp up production. And profits are based on projected numbers. If they can’t be met, they either raise car price or go broke.

          All we can do is hope someone makes a battery tech breakthrough that is better, cheaper, lighter, smaller and uses a material that is very plentiful. Like carbon.<-I understand they are looking at that.

          No antagonism intended Fibb. Just hard numbers that don't fit your expectations. Lets just hope that we see E-cat power plants in the next few years so they don't need another 100 million batteries a year for power storage.

      • Hi all

        The big oil companies sold their oil fields.

        Kind Regards walker

        • Omega Z

          Big Oil has sold off some oil rights for fields they wouldn’t even develop for at least 20 years. Oil is based on a very long term outlook. These fields will be bought back at a latter date at much cheaper prices. Big oil literally plan 40 years out. The next 10 years is pretty much set in stone.

          Even Small Oil looks at least 5/10 years ahead. And most of there’s is hand me downs from Big Oil. That being, a field or well doesn’t pay back enough for Big oil to bother with. They sell it short to the little guy. It’s going to be a long time before E-cats have any serious effect on Oil.

          It’s a matter of scale. It’s a huge task.
          Rossi talks of a Plant manufacturing a Million a year. Great. In about a 125 years every home in the U.S. will have “1”. We’ll overlook the fact the average home would need 4. Or that after 30 years, it’s time to start replacing those already built.

          Industry & business use 2/3rds of the energy for products. They will need supplied also. And we haven’t even gotten to cars, etc…

          If you want an E-cat powered car, you’ll need at least 30 E-cat reactors. If and that’s a Big If, someone can come up with an efficient 1/3rd conversion system for them.

          Approximately 15 million cars a year equates to about 450 million reactors a year. Rossi better get busy. He’s going to need 500/600 factories just for the U.S. and that doesn’t cover all the other uses people can find for them.

          I watched a program a few years ago. Big Oil hadn’t planned anything for oil production beyond 40 years, Because, They aren’t sure there would be enough economically to even bother with. No one could afford to buy it.

          Note even with the Oil glut at this time, they are still drilling about 2000+ wells a month. Presently, they produce about 35 billion barrels a year. That’s 35 billion more barrels of reserves a year they need to find to maintain capacity without additional demand. LENR is of little concern to them except that it may not arrive in time. That is why they have shown interest in LENR…

    • Heath

      I’d rather see people buying more electric cars ahead of a mass produced e-cat. It will make the transition to this new source of energy even easier when it comes.

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    ..meanwhile Bloomberg cites a “clean revolution”, about to cause Big Oil “to lose control of the auto industry”….http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-16/big-oil-is-about-to-lose-control-of-the-auto-industry

    • Omega Z

      I see a lot of gobbledygook in this Bloomberg article. When someone uses national data interspersed with international data, it is suspect of manipulation. It’s similar to someone intermingling percentages & hard numbers to prove he made you a profit. You probably didn’t.

      Electric cars: Although Cleaner as to total CO2, Not clean. CO2 is still emitted. Just not at the tailpipe. As Darden says, Just less bad.
      Hydrogen fuel cells: Some interesting developments in hydrogen production research, but until that comes to market, Overall it creates more CO2. Just not at the tailpipe.

      I don’t know what numbers he selected to use for his 0.5% of sales. What I do know is total world E-car sales was projected at 400K for 2014. Did they achieve that? I don’t have the numbers yet, but 400K falls far short of 0.5% of car production of 75/80 million. Give it about 2.75% due to unknown factors.

      A Rosie picture: A 60% average improvement in fleet mileage. Manufactures promote this number to show improvement to keep the government from pushing more mandates. The Government agrees with this number to say that their mandates worked. No reason to question these numbers. Right?

      No doubt, the numbers have improved. Just not what they claim. My new vehicle gets better mileage, but if I’m a business, I may have additional vehicles. I burn more gas.

      Fact, Improved mileage, The Economies tanked, And overall oil demand declined only about 2%. The numbers do not add up as portrayed. The media is used to hype things up in hopes of actually making it real. You tell people they are happy often enough, long enough, Maybe they will believe it. And it’s a fact. Some of them will believe it. That’s why they do it.

      I don’t know about you, but I get tired of the twisted data, out right lies & hidden agendas.

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        You are right, we keep getting manipulated data and interpretations that might have a reason to be displayed the way they are.
        The article appears to venture somewhere less usual, to me. It seems like an introduction to more in this direction. Chanting a different tune can’t happen all of a sudden.

      • The article and headline present a very sound argument. The ICE and supporting systems can’t compete with an electric motor drive train on performance, reliability, efficiency, quietness, vibration, and cost. It’s not even close.

        And on a total cost of ownership basis over 5 years, EVs are already cheaper (because electricity is much cheaper than gasoline) while being superior all around machines. As battery costs drop (as they already have done) the case for ICE’s and gasoline get worse and worse and worse.

        I think the article is bang on. The automotive industry is soon poised to flip in just a few years. I doubt anyone will be selling new ICE propelled passenger vehicles in 2025.

        BMW executives have already announced that the ICE will soon be regulated to only being electricity generators on passenger vehicles in the not too distant future. And most cars won’t even need that when batteries hit $100/kWh in 2020 or sooner.

        All ICEs and gasoline have going for them is inertia. nothing else.

        • Omega Z

          I’m sorry Fibb, We’ve had this conversation before.
          I fully agree about Electric cars 30+ years ago. It is the batteries that don’t measure up. Even Musk puts a question mark on the $12K battery pack price & he’s squeezing it for all it’s worth. Eliminating all middle people & cutting the supply chain. Battery factory to car.

          Aside from batteries not up to speed, 90% plus of the lithium comes from China of which they already announced they are going to slowly stop exporting. You want lithium batteries, buy them from China.

          It takes on average 15 plus years to open a new lithium mine once you know where the deposits are. Incidentally, the U.S. has a shut down rare earths mine that happens to also contain lithium. They’ve been scrambling to get it back into production for the last 4 years. They hope to have it in production before 2020, but wont be in full production until about 2025. At that time, it is thought that it may provide about 75% of today’s U.S. demand. Not future increases.

          There is a reason Elon Musk chose Nevada for his Mega battery plant. It is only a couple 100 miles from that Lithium mine. They also don’t have a state income tax in Nevada so works out well in keeping prices down & savings on shipping.

          Musk hopes the Mega plant is in production by 2017. It may take longer. The plant itself wont be totally completed until 2025. That’s a 1/2 million batteries a year, more then doubling world wide production. We need 158 more of those 7/10 Billion$ Mega plants(That take about 10 years to complete) to meet car production(80M) plus more plants for replacement battery capacity.

          Lithium, like Oil, is a commodity. If you increase demand 100 fold, how high will the price of Lithium go. If your a battery manufacturer & need it to stay in business, As high as the car market will bear. The Lithium from the U.S. mine will already cost more then China’s just to get it out of the ground. Musk is counting on a shorter supply chain to make it competitive. That and more expensive is better then none if China shuts of the export of lithium as planned.

          Car manufactures wont switch over to all electric car production unless they know that the battery supply is permanent & stable. It costs lots of money to repeatedly shut down, then ramp up production. And profits are based on projected numbers. If they can’t be met, they either raise car price or go broke.

          All we can do is hope someone makes a battery tech breakthrough that is better, cheaper, lighter, smaller and uses a material that is very plentiful. Like carbon.<-I understand they are looking at that.

          No antagonism intended Fibb. Just hard numbers that don't fit your expectations. Lets just hope that we see E-cat power plants in the next few years so they don't need another 100 million batteries a year for power storage.

      • Hi all

        The big oil companies sold their oil fields.

        Kind Regards walker

        • Omega Z

          Big Oil has sold off some oil rights for fields they wouldn’t even develop for at least 20 years. Oil is based on a very long term outlook. These fields will be bought back at a latter date at much cheaper prices. Big oil literally plan 40 years out. The next 10 years is pretty much set in stone.

          Even Small Oil looks at least 5/10 years ahead. And most of there’s is hand me downs from Big Oil. That being, a field or well doesn’t pay back enough for Big oil to bother with. They sell it short to the little guy. It’s going to be a long time before E-cats have any serious effect on Oil.

          It’s a matter of scale. It’s a huge task.
          Rossi talks of a Plant manufacturing a Million a year. Great. In about a 125 years every home in the U.S. will have “1”. We’ll overlook the fact the average home would need 4. Or that after 30 years, it’s time to start replacing those already built.

          Industry & business use 2/3rds of the energy for products. They will need supplied also. And we haven’t even gotten to cars, etc…

          If you want an E-cat powered car, you’ll need at least 30 E-cat reactors. If and that’s a Big If, someone can come up with an efficient 1/3rd conversion system for them.

          Approximately 15 million cars a year equates to about 450 million reactors a year. Rossi better get busy. He’s going to need 500/600 factories just for the U.S. and that doesn’t cover all the other uses people can find for them.

          I watched a program a few years ago. Big Oil hadn’t planned anything for oil production beyond 40 years, Because, They aren’t sure there would be enough economically to even bother with. No one could afford to buy it.

          Note even with the Oil glut at this time, they are still drilling about 2000+ wells a month. Presently, they produce about 35 billion barrels a year. That’s 35 billion more barrels of reserves a year they need to find to maintain capacity without additional demand. LENR is of little concern to them except that it may not arrive in time. That is why they have shown interest in LENR…

    • Heath

      I’d rather see people buying more electric cars ahead of a mass produced e-cat. It will make the transition to this new source of energy even easier when it comes.

  • Sanjeev

    So far, this is the most striking new discovery presented in this ICCF:
    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1399-ICCF19-Anatoly-Klinov-energy-release-and-transmutation-in-cold-heterogeneous-pla/
    With COP of up to 10 and power levels up to 10KW at 1100°C, this tech can become very promising.

    • artefact

      cool stuff. Hopefully it can help to understand the lenr phenomenon.

    • this one by Vysotskii is a bombe too

      http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1401-ICCF19-Vladimir-Vysotskii-Biological-remediation-of-radioactive-cesium/

      the Russian Tiger is harder to understand

      http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1402-Igor-Vitalievich-Goryachev-plasma-processing-of-nuclear-waste-and-transmutations/

      and there is Russian poster with huge results, or mysterious evidences…

      That is the day of Russia at ICCF19

      • Axil Axil

        The nucleus of a radioactive isotope has extra energy in it that will be released at some time in the future at a predictable rate but with an uncertain release pattern. The way to stablize that waste is to extract and redistribute that extra energy from the excited nucleus at a certain time in a controlled manor.

        The theory on how to do this is know as Quantum energy teleportation. This theory has been experimentally verified. It works.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_energy_teleportation

        If we want to understand how LENR works, we must understand this. SO put your thinking caps on and here we go…

        The uncertainty principle has a feature called a squeezed vacuum. When the energy density between two or more particles is saturated, a condition called a Squeezed coherent state exists.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeezed_coherent_state

        When the vacuum that encloses two or more particles becomes saturated with EMF energy, these particles share their waveforms through the 5th dimension with out the 4 dimensional world knowing anything about it so that the particles become entangled and equal in energy. Yes, there is a 5th dimension in theoretical physics.

        Saying this in another way, if two or more particles are enclosed in a strong enough magnetic field, they will share energy and become entangled because the vacuum is saturated with energy. These multiple particles become essentially one particle while the vacuum is saturated.

        The energetic vacuum suppresses quantum fluctuations and decoherence is disabled. The system becomes entangled with total energy sharing

        see

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zD1U1sIPQ4

        In more detail, Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle is any of a variety of mathematical inequalities asserting a fundamental limit to the precision with which certain pairs of physical properties of a particle known as complementary variables, such as position x and momentum p, can be known simultaneously.

        When the energy of the vacuum is high enough, the position of the multiple particles become irrelevant in that space, and the particles become the same particle. This is when this set of particles share energy.

        At the end of this process, the excess energy contained in these excited atoms are spread around. Some isotopes will been changed but all the atoms within the confines of this patch of high energy vacuum will be stabilized.

        This isotope stabilization process happens in LENR to remove harmful radiation from LENR ash and EMF emmissions

  • Omega Z

    Has anyone at ICCF19 produced incontrovertible evidence of excess heat from the LENR process?

    The answer is YES.

    “USEFUL excess heat” Is a different question all together.
    Your manipulating the conversation.

  • LuFong

    I love MFMP’s perseverance and the willingness to put it all out there in the open. Good luck with your quest for the Variac and the experiment (hopefully live streamed!).

    • Bob Greenyer

      It will be live streamed, if we can secure this final piece – everything is set up, exact Parkhomov fuel as used in his long term run – phase chopper – pressure sensor – Optris PI160 – 4″ NaI Scintillator – but need to lower the input voltage of the AC. Parkhomov on hand for advice.

      Perhaps someone can find a supplier in Padua?

      • guest9

        Please get a Variac!!! you can rent it for a day or two

      • Ged

        Good luck guys, this is a beautiful opportunity. Can’t let something as silly as a missing variac ruin it, if we can help it.

      • Nicholas Cafarelli

        See my comment above. No variac needed if additional external heating wire is added to circuit. In effect this heats wire away from the reactor, consuming whatever amount you choose.

    • Axil Axil

      Yesterday, in the thread “Technical Discussion with Alexander Parkhomov on his Replications”

      Alexander Parkhomov specified the key ingredients required to operate an E-Cat successfully. The answer is simple: nickel in powder form, lithium aluminium hydride, and a “dirty” chopped AC waveform of the type obtained by using a thyristor controlled power supply.

      A thyristor power supply gives an oscilloscope trace similar to an interrupted sine wive. Even though the base frequency is only 50 or 60 c.p.s, such a system produces a broad range of harmonics. It is these multi-frequency harmonics which trigger the reactions.

      So Nickel, LithiumAH and a noisy power supply is the trick.

      Does MFMP ignore the advice of the Russian about a noisy power supply? WHY?

      • Ged

        Parkhomov is physically there to advise them, so hopefuly they’ll figure it out together. We’ll see. Hot Cat wasn’t on a thyristor, so I’m not too worried (though TRIACs can do chopped waveforms).

        • Axil Axil

          Lagano used a secret power supply that produced a modified square wave with loads of harmonics.

          See page 6

          http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/LuganoReportSubmit.pdf

          • Ged

            Yeah, I was reading page 3 when I wrote my reply. I don’t think it’s secret, but just the TRIAC itself as reported, from what I’ve been reading about how TRIACs perform. Unlike Variacs, they aren’t smooth unless one filters through an induction transformer or something like that, but apparently that’s pretty dangerous with a TRIAC. I dunno, there’s some passionate talk about TRIACs versus Variacs out there, but I’m not experienced with either.

          • Axil Axil

            A sharp rise in power makes for an increase magnetic field pulse which produce turbulence in the gas which produce nanoparticles.

          • Ged

            That’s an interesting idea to help induce the reaction, and would help explain the need for a lithium gas phase mixed with the hydrogen before substantial excess heat is produced in these hot designs.

          • Axil Axil

            The LENR reaction happens in those piles of nanoparticles. No nanopartices means no LENR reaction.

          • Ged

            In theory then, one could rapidly pulse a variac to accomplish the same?

          • Axil Axil

            yes

          • Veblin

            Rossi’s power supply isn’t so secret as shown in a picture here.
            http://www.ecat-thenewfire.com/blog/secret-hot-cat-laboratory/

            Control Concepts
            Compact FUSION Three Phase Power Controller
            http://ccipower.com/products/controllers/compact-fusion-three-phase-power-controller

          • Axil Axil

            You are right. No wonder way Rossi was irate at the release of that picture.

      • US_Citizen71

        They need the variac to lower the voltage to their noisey thyristor power supply I believe, the voltage is too high at the test location for supply they have.

        • Ged

          That makes a lot of sense then. Thank you for the info!

          • hempenearth

            These guys make electric vehicles in Padua so you may be able to borrow or hire one from them or they may know where to get one from.
            http://www.alke.com/alke-profile-company
            Sorry, non parle italiano

        • Axil Axil

          The way to start the LENR reaction is through the production of nanoparticles. There are standard inductry methods used to produce nanoparticles that the LENR experimental community is fumbling with currently using trial and error.

          This looks like the way DGT produced their reaction.

          Pulse power is an industry standard method used to poduce nanoparticles. Dirty power produces nanoparticles by using power pulsation.

          http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/cnano/2014/00000010/00000001/art00005?crawler=true

          Abstract: Polycrystalline copper nanoparticles were synthesized from copper chloride dihydrate solution using the liquid phase plasma reduction method. A bipolar pulsed power supply with tungsten electrodes was used to generate discharge in the aqueous solutions.

          While large size of dendrite-shaped copper nanoparticles were mostly observed in the initial stage and particle size decreased with discharge time. The particles were dispersed with less and less small particles by the addition of CTAB and anisotropic shapes nanoparticles were mostly observed at long time plasma-treated with high concentration of surfactant. Many spots could be seen in the selected area diffraction pattern (SADP) for polycrystalline particles.
          ——————————-

          Another way to produce nanoparticles are through cold plasma. RF or Non arcing high voltage produces nanoparticles in gas.

          http://www3.aiche.org/proceedings/Abstract.aspx?PaperID=38270

      • Bob Greenyer

        We are using a thyristor stack. we just need a transformer to help match the load

    • lepthadrelix

      I like that the experiment is happening in what appears to be an old-style “New Fire”-place.

  • Nicholas Cafarelli

    By adding additional heating wire they can go forward WITHOUT a variac. The extra wire consumes additional power. It should be positioned so that it does NOT heat the reactor – just mount it a distance away, in series. An alligator clip or a wiper contact can vary the amount of wire in the circuit.

    Support my replication: http://www.gofundme.com/l6dfxg

    Checkout my blog: http://ni.comli.com

    • Bob Greenyer

      We have considered this, we have a doggone with us – we were going to put it in series to lower the power applied to the core but it is not high enough resistance.

      I guess getting more resistance wire would be easier and we could wrap it around the dog bone.

  • Svein Arild Utne

    If you can not get a variac, go for an inverter and make any voltage you like between 0 and 240V like the one from AnyHz.
    http://anyhertz.en.made-in-china.com/product/dXtnOGHCELhV/China-Anyhz-Frequency-Converter-60Hz-50Hz-in-AC-Motor-Drives.html

  • Svein Arild Utne

    If you can not get a variac, go for an inverter and make any voltage you like between 0 and 240V like the one from AnyHz.
    http://anyhertz.en.made-in-china.com/product/dXtnOGHCELhV/China-Anyhz-Frequency-Converter-60Hz-50Hz-in-AC-Motor-Drives.html

  • hempenearth

    These guys make electric vehicles in Padua so you may be able to borrow or hire one from them or they may know where to get one from.
    http://www.alke.com/alke-profile-company
    Sorry, non parle italiano

  • Axil Axil

    The way to start the LENR reaction is through the production of nanoparticles. There are standard inductry methods used to produce nanoparticles that the LENR experimental community is fumbling with currently using trial and error.

    This looks like the way DGT produced their reaction.

    Pulse power is an industry standard method used to poduce nanoparticles. Dirty power produces nanoparticles by using power pulsation.

    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/cnano/2014/00000010/00000001/art00005?crawler=true

    Abstract: Polycrystalline copper nanoparticles were synthesized from copper chloride dihydrate solution using the liquid phase plasma reduction method. A bipolar pulsed power supply with tungsten electrodes was used to generate discharge in the aqueous solutions.

    While large size of dendrite-shaped copper nanoparticles were mostly observed in the initial stage and particle size decreased with discharge time. The particles were dispersed with less and less small particles by the addition of CTAB and anisotropic shapes nanoparticles were mostly observed at long time plasma-treated with high concentration of surfactant. Many spots could be seen in the selected area diffraction pattern (SADP) for polycrystalline particles.
    ——————————-

    Another way to produce nanoparticles are through cold plasma. RF or Non arcing high voltage produces nanoparticles in gas.

    http://www3.aiche.org/proceedings/Abstract.aspx?PaperID=38270

  • am I dreaming or did Alan Smith write up a great essay about what he learned about how to do a AP style run? I can’t find it now.

    EDIT: NEVERMIND, FOUND IT

  • Bob Greenyer

    We only want to bake a cake, we cannot do an ‘exact replication’ as the equipment is wildly different and the ‘COP’ would only be debated – it was very evident that many crowded around Dr. Parkhomov were only interested in the Elemental / Isotopic shifts (almost everything else is already in the public domain) after they were revealed, the crowd took photos and dispersed. If we can run it for a few days with the right temperature domain and with temperature target control, we have a range of offers to take ash and analyse it in some of the best equipped labs in the world. Whilst elemental changes can be debated by the super skeptics, isotopic changes are harder to criticise – even if you do not know the fuel used and we have offers to do isotopic analysis.

    If the isotopic changes are there, showing non-natual abundance, it is easier to believe the elemental changes are not all contamination.

    If the net nuclear changes can only have resulted from an exothermic nuclear reaction – then heat MUST have been produced, the only question is how much since we do not know why there is no radiation and if, say, some of it left as neutrinos, then the thermal yield is harder to determine.

    • Omega Z

      Bob
      Sorry. I know your pretty occupied at the moment, but-
      Is the image of Darden holding a Dog Bone down page one of Rossi’s he brought along or have you connected with him & it’s one of MFMP’s.

    • Josh G

      Have you tried appealing to La Gatta / TSEM for a variac or resistance wire? They should have plenty of equipment, and their offices are there in Padua.

  • Bob Greenyer

    We only want to bake a cake, we cannot do an ‘exact replication’ as the equipment is wildly different and the ‘COP’ would only be debated – it was very evident that many crowded around Dr. Parkhomov were only interested in the Elemental / Isotopic shifts (almost everything else is already in the public domain) after they were revealed, the crowd took photos and dispersed. If we can run it for a few days with the right temperature domain and with temperature target control, we have a range of offers to take ash and analyse it in some of the best equipped labs in the world. Whilst elemental changes can be debated by the super skeptics, isotopic changes are harder to criticise – even if you do not know the fuel used and we have offers to do isotopic analysis.

    If the isotopic changes are there, showing non-natual abundance, it is easier to believe the elemental changes are not all contamination.

    If the net nuclear changes can only have resulted from an exothermic nuclear reaction – then heat MUST have been produced, the only question is how much since we do not know why there is no radiation and if, say, some of it left as neutrinos, then the thermal yield is harder to determine.

    • Omega Z

      Bob
      Sorry. I know your pretty occupied at the moment, but-
      Is the image of Darden holding a Dog Bone down page one of Rossi’s he brought along or have you connected with him & it’s one of MFMP’s.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I handed the one we made in US

        • Omega Z

          Thanks Bob.
          Maybe when things settle down you can let us know what he had to say.
          Regards & good luck with the Demo. At least I hope it works out.

    • Josh G

      Have you tried appealing to La Gatta / TSEM for a variac or resistance wire? They should have plenty of equipment, and their offices are there in Padua.

    • Marc
  • catman

    From several sources now it seems the high frequency parts of the heating voltage could be an important factor for the COP.Therefore I propose the controller waveform should be presented in detail including the spectrum diagram.
    Here is a costeffective PC scope with intergrated spectrum analyzer working fine for such purpose. https://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=407512
    Nomatter if COP results greater than one or not the analysis afterwards should include a detailed spectrum compare with Parkhomov .
    Is Parkhomov spectrum available yet?

  • Gerrit

    [OT] Darden interview in Infinite Energy Magazine
    http://infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/DardenInterview.pdf

    • Gerrit

      The bit about confirmation bias is great. Just like people who look at cold fusion the way they do and won’t listen to reason.

    • Omega Z

      Very informative & interesting.

  • Gerrit

    Darden interview in Infinite Energy Magazine
    http://infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/DardenInterview.pdf

    • Gerrit

      The bit about confirmation bias is great. Just like people who look at cold fusion the way they do and won’t listen to reason.

    • Omega Z

      Very informative & interesting.

  • Arnaud

    Messa in scena commedia dell’ arte 🙂 Great! Hope you can have a variac in hand very soon.

  • Arnaud

    Messa in scena commedia dell’ arte 🙂 Great! Hope you can have a variac in hand very soon.

  • PMKD

    1: Technical Discussion with Alexander Parkhomov on his Replications
    ‘… The answer is simple: nickel in powder form, lithium aluminium hydride, and a “dirty” chopped AC waveform of the type obtained by using a thyristor controlled power supply. That is all. …’

    2: A Variac is not a Triac :-
    http://www.nxp.com/documents/application_note/APPCHP6.pdf
    ‘Thyristor and triac control techniques
    There are two main techniques of controlling thyristors and triacs – on-off triggering (or static switching) and phase control.
    2.1: In on-off triggering, the power switch is allowed to conduct for a certain number of half-cycles and then it is kept off for a number of half-cycles. Thus, by varying the ratio of “on-time” to “off-time”, the average power supplied to the load can be controlled. The switching device either completely activates or deactivates the load circuit.
    2.2: In phase control circuits, the thyristor or triac is triggered into conduction at some point after the start of each half-cycle. Control is achieved on a cycle-by-cycle basis by variation of the point in the cycle at which the thyristor is triggered
    2.3: p53: Conventional phase control allows fully-proportional control of the power dissipated in the load, but the high rates of change of current and voltage cause RFI …’

    3: What seems to be needed is a phase-controlled Triac with no RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) suppression i.e. ‘a “dirty” chopped AC waveform”. If RFI is essential, then a Variac will not deliver.

    • MWerner

      It seems that all they need the Variac for is to step down their mains power to a level that their Triac/Thyristor temperature controller can work with. See many discussions below.

    • Ted-X

      The “chopped” AC indicates that the back EMF and the harmonics are at play. Tuning harmonics should be possible by having a tunable capacitor connected to the heating coil; ends of the capacitor to the ends of the coil; the coil would be powered as usual). Changing the capacitance would affect the self-resonance frequency (and the harmonics) of the coil-capacitor circuitry at the “chopping points”. There is an easy formula to calculate the self-resonance frequency of such a system. A series of coils with various inductancies (combined with a range of tunable capacitors) could be used in an experimental design.
      ———————————————————————————————————————–
      This posting is a public disclosure, for consideration by MFMP and others and aimed at PREVENTING anybody from patenting of this technical detail. Ted-X

    • Obvious

      So set the control box to zero cross and also crop each conduction period significantly before the cycle completes. This will require a quite low resistance heater coil to allow enough current to flow with the greatly reduced on time in order to generate significant heat. Just like Lugano.

  • Ted-X

    The “chopped” AC indicates that the back EMF and the harmonics are at play. Tuning harmonics should be possible by having a tunable capacitor connected to the heating coil; ends of the capacitor to the ends of the coil; the coil would be powered as usual). Changing the capacitance would affect the self-resonance frequency (and the harmonics) of the coil-capacitor circuitry at the “chopping points”. There is an easy formula to calculate the self-resonance frequency of such a system. A series of coils with various inductancies (combined with a range of tunable capacitors) could be used in an experimental design.
    ———————————————————————————————————————–
    This posting is a public disclosure, for consideration by MFMP and others and aimed at PREVENTING anybody from patenting of this technical detail. Ted-X

  • Bob Greenyer

    Padua Parkhomov Fuel *GlowStick* GS2 LIVE RUN

    []=Project Dog Bone=[]

    http://youtu.be/Sr3fd3PFx8U

    There will be screengrabs in this folder

    http://bit.ly/1CUhCyl

    • artefact

      A perfect final for a very special week. Thanks.

    • Fyodor

      Thanks for running this and for all of your hard work. Have there been any useful insights from having Parkhomov involved in the experiment?

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      Sounds like you guys will have lot’s of fun tonight. It will be a late night for me again watching you guys go for it. I hope you will have a successful run.

      Big thanks from me for doing these replications.

      • Yes I could Imagine how these guys with same interests are sitting there, looking at the reactor, drinking a glass of wine or bottle of beer and gregarious and happily talking about technical stuff and insider knowledge 🙂

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          You know, if possible I would happily sit there just listening to all the techno babble, enjoying the general atmosphere and drinking all the beer 🙂

          And possibly be there as history is being written… How great it would be if there would be clear excess heat or heat after dead this time.

          • I guess Parkhomov will buy a round of russian wodka if they get heat after death 🙂

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            I imagine the MFMP team would take quite a few of those wodka’s. They have been searching so long for clear excess heat that to finally get it would be the most important milestone so far. So here’s hoping they all get madly drunk on russian wodka!

    • Ged

      What a beautiful pressure curve.

    • Da Phys

      The pressure is decreasing much faster in this run than during the previous one, suggesting that more H is loaded. Great news since less LiAL will form when reaching >400°C.
      The next question is why this difference? Because of a different source of Ni or because of new harmonics?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Not just different Nickel – this is the EXACT same LiAlH4 he used in his last run and looks remarkably different in colour and texture than the LiAlH4 that Alan sourced stateside and used in his last run

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Maybe parts of it have already been converted to LiOH and Al(OH)3 due to contact with humid air, so that less hydrogen is released than one could expect.

    • US_Citizen71

      Bob if you are monitoring, please have them put something dark behind the camera pointed at the VIP System 3 power meter so its display can be read better.

  • Hank Mills

    Dear Bob Greenyer,

    According to the Cook-Rossi paper, the lithium inside a hot cat is in the vapor phase and evenly distributed inside the reactor. Please push the temperature up to the boiling point of lithium or beyond. This might even allow for self sustain. Parkhomov’s most successful test had the external temperature at 1290C.

  • Hank Mills

    Dear Bob Greenyer,

    According to the Cook-Rossi paper, the lithium inside a hot cat is in the vapor phase and evenly distributed inside the reactor. Please push the temperature up to the boiling point of lithium or beyond. This might even allow for self sustain. Parkhomov’s most successful test had the external temperature at 1290C.

  • Obvious

    So set the control box to zero cross and also crop each conduction period significantly before the cycle completes. This will require a quite low resistance heater coil to allow enough current to flow with the greatly reduced on time in order to generate significant heat. Just like Lugano.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Not just different Nickel – this is the EXACT same LiAlH4 he used in his last run and looks remarkably different in colour and texture than the LiAlH4 that Alan sourced stateside and used in his last run

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Maybe parts of it have already been converted to LiOH and Al(OH)3 due to contact with humid air, so that less hydrogen is released than one could expect.

  • ecatworld

    Bob G. just introduced Peter Björkbom of NeoFire.com who is there to watch the demo and who helped provide neede equipment for this test. Thanks, Peter!

  • Frank Acland

    Bob G. just introduced Peter Björkbom of NeoFire.com who is there to watch the demo and who helped provide neede equipment for this test. Thanks, Peter!

  • EEStorFanFibb

    what happened to the audio?

  • theBuckWheat

    Easy early “low hanging fruit” for LENR deployment: replacement for large coal-fired boilers such as for process heat and utility power. Replacement for diesel engine in railroad locomotive and ship power. Later: Over-the-road (Class 10) trucking.

    It may be some time before LENR comes to aviation as a source of the power for propulsion. Given the amount of diesel fuel (and lower grades) that is burned to generate utility grade power, it won’t take too much displacement by LENR in that application to cause the market value of liquid petroleum fuel products to drop. That means that jet fuel will get less expensive per BTU. The case for LENR will be on a capital cost vs operating cost basis over the life cycle of the use.

    For example, this from the history of 747s at Braniff Airlines:

    Ship N601BN, besides being the 100th built 747, also held the record as the highest time 747 in service and the jumbo aircraft’s reliability record was the envy of the industry. On the Dallas to Honolulu run the big jet recorded 13.6 hours of flight time every day with a remarkable 97.6 percent dispatch reliability.

    On February 2, 1975, Braniff International’s Boeing 747-127 registered as N601BN became the first Boeing Jumbo Jet to pass the 10 million mile mark. The multi million mile flight was completed on arrival at Honolulu International Airport, Hawaii. When The Great Pumpkin touched down at Honolulu International Airport on February 2, the Boeing Super Jet had recorded 20,000 hours and 45 minutes of flight time or the equivalent of 10 million miles flown….

    https://www.facebook.com/braniffflyingcolors/posts/728808150521826:0

    I’ll leave it to others to make an educated guess at how many tons (or gallons) of JP4 that N601BN burned over its life cycle and about how many Kwh that would be required to be generated in a yet-to-be-developed thermal engine that some future LENR-powered aircraft would use for the same passenger and ton-miles.

    I have always lamented that we had to burn something to produce energy to power our lives. With just a few conversion constants, if you have your electric bill, you can figure out exactly how many pounds of coal the power plant burned to keep you warm or cool, and thus how much fly ash and SO2 is yours. The end of that era of human development is coming to an end. But like with whale oil, it took a long time to transition to better substitutes. Rock on LENR!

  • theBuckWheat

    Easy early “low hanging fruit” for LENR deployment: replacement for large coal-fired boilers such as for process heat and utility power. Replacement for diesel engine in railroad locomotive and ship power. Later: Over-the-road (Class 10) trucking.

    It may be some time before LENR comes to aviation as a source of the power for propulsion. Given the amount of diesel fuel (and lower grades) that is burned to generate utility grade power, it won’t take too much displacement by LENR in that application to cause the market value of liquid petroleum fuel products to drop. That means that jet fuel will get less expensive per BTU. The case for LENR will be on a capital cost vs operating cost basis over the life cycle of the use.

    For example, this from the history of 747s at Braniff Airlines:

    Ship N601BN, besides being the 100th built 747, also held the record as the highest time 747 in service and the jumbo aircraft’s reliability record was the envy of the industry. On the Dallas to Honolulu run the big jet recorded 13.6 hours of flight time every day with a remarkable 97.6 percent dispatch reliability.

    On February 2, 1975, Braniff International’s Boeing 747-127 registered as N601BN became the first Boeing Jumbo Jet to pass the 10 million mile mark. The multi million mile flight was completed on arrival at Honolulu International Airport, Hawaii. When The Great Pumpkin touched down at Honolulu International Airport on February 2, the Boeing Super Jet had recorded 20,000 hours and 45 minutes of flight time or the equivalent of 10 million miles flown….

    https://www.facebook.com/braniffflyingcolors/posts/728808150521826:0

    I’ll leave it to others to make an educated guess at how many tons (or gallons) of JP4 that N601BN burned over its life cycle and about how many Kwh that would be required to be generated in a yet-to-be-developed thermal engine that some future LENR-powered aircraft would use for the same passenger and ton-miles.

    I have always lamented that we had to burn something to produce energy to power our lives. With just a few conversion constants, if you have your electric bill, you can figure out exactly how many pounds of coal the power plant burned to keep you warm or cool, and thus how much fly ash and SO2 is yours. The end of that era of human development is coming to an end. But like with whale oil, it took a long time to transition to better substitutes. Rock on LENR!

  • artefact

    “.. we don’t drink this until we see some excess heat and then we drink the whole bottle!” 🙂

    • Bob Greenyer

      No excess, no excess

      • Ged

        Chanting that won’t save you from having to drink that whole bottle 😉

        • Bob Greenyer

          hahah

  • artefact

    “.. we don’t drink this until we see some excess heat and then we drink the whole bottle!” 🙂

    • Bob Greenyer

      No excess, no excess

      • Ged

        Chanting that won’t save you from having to drink that whole bottle 😉

        • Bob Greenyer

          hahah

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    Bob, Is parhamov there with you guys? Are you streaming the data on data.hugnetlab.com?

    • Bob Greenyer

      He has gone to venice

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    Bob, Is parhamov there with you guys? Are you streaming the data on data.hugnetlab.com?

    • Bob Greenyer

      He has gone to venice

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    Bob, what is the next steps if Excess Heat is a no show?

    • Bob Greenyer

      we send off ash for elemental / isotopic analysis

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    Bob, what is the next steps if Excess Heat is a no show?

    • Bob Greenyer

      we send off ash for elemental / isotopic analysis

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    Bob, Does the IR camera capture and log RAW data then apply filtering. Or does the filtering overwrite the raw data?

    • Bob Greenyer

      temperature profile is in the recorded stream

      • David Taylor-Fuller

        The live stream on youtube or hugnetlab data stream? If your referring to the youtube stream the only numbers that I can make out is the numbers from the IR camera image in the upper right. All the other numbers for the most part are unreadable

        • Bob Greenyer

          They will not be in the 1080p recordings or stills.

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    Bob, Does the IR camera capture and log RAW data then apply filtering. Or does the filtering overwrite the raw data?

    • Bob Greenyer

      temperature profile is in the recorded stream

      • David Taylor-Fuller

        The live stream on youtube or hugnetlab data stream? If your referring to the youtube stream the only numbers that I can make out is the numbers from the IR camera image in the upper right. All the other numbers for the most part are unreadable

        • Bob Greenyer

          They will not be in the 1080p recordings or stills.

  • Ged

    Holding temp stable and just letting the hydrogen absorb into the nickel, right now? Don’t think I’ve seen the temperature going up for the past nearly two hours now. Is there a time outline of the plans for this run and getting to 1200 C?

    • Bob Greenyer

      We have just set it to go to 550ºC external (630ºC internal approx) in a 75ºC/hour – depending how that looks after a period of pressure drop, we will set it to 760ºC external (around 1000ºC internal approx).

      • Ged

        Awesome, thank you for the updates and all your work, Bob. Looks like the pressure is starting to bottom out again, such interesting behavior so far.

      • timycelyn

        Listening in to the discussion about the next temperature ramp and the boiling point of lithium, to comments I would like to make:

        1. The boiling point of the metal will not be affected by the pressure of the rest of the components in the system – merely by the partial pressure of the lithium vapour above the liquid. (ie pull a vacuum and it will boil lower, seal it up and generate a high partial pressure and it will boil higher.)

        2. I question whether the boiling point has to be reached in any event. At temperatures getting towards a materials boiling point there is plenty of vapourisation – ie evaporation or sublimation – anyway. It’s just not quite as fast or dramatic as boiling. In a small vessel like this I’m sure the lithium will be well transported around it even if the notional boiling point is not reached.

  • Ged

    Holding temp stable and just letting the hydrogen absorb into the nickel, right now? Don’t think I’ve seen the temperature going up for the past nearly two hours now. Is there a time outline of the plans for this run and getting to 1200 C?

    • Bob Greenyer

      We have just set it to go to 550ºC external (630ºC internal approx) in a 75ºC/hour – depending how that looks after a period of pressure drop, we will set it to 760ºC external (around 1000ºC internal approx).

      • Ged

        Awesome, thank you for the updates and all your work, Bob. Looks like the pressure is starting to bottom out again, such interesting behavior so far.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Second part LIVE here

    http://youtu.be/Fv7s3XKjHQs

    • Ged

      New downward inflection in pressure. A sudden increase in the hydrogen absorption capacity of the nickel? Interesting behavior.

    • Ged

      Looks like it’s actually leveled off near 80 PSI. What a pretty looking curve. Guess it’s safe to start ratcheting that temp up.

      Edit: *Thumbs UP*

  • Bob Greenyer

    Second part LIVE here

    http://youtu.be/Fv7s3XKjHQs

    • Ged

      New downward inflection in pressure. A sudden increase in the hydrogen absorption capacity of the nickel? Interesting behavior.

    • Ged

      Looks like it’s actually leveled off near 80 PSI. What a pretty looking curve. Guess it’s safe to start ratcheting that temp up.

      Edit: *Thumbs UP*

  • LuFong

    Looks like live run hit 4h and finished?

  • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

    Bob, The heating is joule heating right, why not just heat with DC. People have suggested that induced varying magnetic field is important somehow to the CF process. Why not have a double helix coil with one high resistant joule heating coill heated with DC and one low resistant coil used to generate magnetic field with AC, then the bulk energy could perhaps be delivered as DC and a more effective decoupled stimulation with the AC, Am I missing something here? as I understand in a perfect coupled circuit the voltages across the high resistant helix and the low resistant helix is the same, hence the induced heat from the AC coil to the DC coil is small (due to P = U^2 / R) hence the decoupling (The DC is not induced in the AC coil)

    To note, Steady magnetic fields breakes conductive fluids, AC may stir conductive fluids, and then we have possible other benefits for which I cannot answer. As I understand, there is a process where the powder goes from a high conductive “fluid” to a web. I figure that induced forces via the AC could affect the final web product through the induced forces in the powder, maybe stiring, maybe just introduce tension that could be beneficial for the creation of CF sites don’t know. Stirers in steel making has dimentions like meters and the do bone has much smaller dimensions, in the steel making they use 10-20Hz, then 50Hz sounds a bit too low to me, perhaps that’s why the TRIAC to have higher frequency harmonics. Anyhow the drawback of complex waveform in power measurments can be mitigated if one separates the complexity (for stimulation) to the low resistant coil.

    • Bob Greenyer

      We are trying to replicate Parkhomov – whilst the apparatus is different, in his 3 day run, we are trying to keep as much as possible the same

      – rules for raising temperature

      – Ni (Exact Same)

      – LiAlH4 (Exact Same)

      – Thyristor controlled Phase Angle chopped AC

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        Great!, cool show btw. Anyhow I just wanted o ventilate my thoughts in case they could be helpful and also a way for me to learn more.

        • Bob Greenyer

          That is why this is live!

  • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

    Bob, The heating is joule heating right, why not just heat with DC. People have suggested that induced varying magnetic field is important somehow to the CF process. Why not have a double helix coil with one high resistant joule heating coill heated with DC and one low resistant coil used to generate magnetic field with AC, then the bulk energy could perhaps be delivered as DC and a more effective decoupled stimulation with the AC, Am I missing something here? as I understand in a perfect coupled circuit the voltages across the high resistant helix and the low resistant helix is the same, hence the induced heat from the AC coil to the DC coil is small (due to P = U^2 / R) hence the decoupling (The DC is not induced in the AC coil)

    To note, Steady magnetic fields breakes conductive fluids, AC may stir conductive fluids, and then we have possible other benefits for which I cannot answer. As I understand, there is a process where the powder goes from a high conductive “fluid” to a web. I figure that induced forces via the AC could affect the final web product through the induced forces in the powder, maybe stiring, maybe just introduce tension that could be beneficial for the creation of CF sites don’t know. Stirers in steel making has dimentions like meters and the do bone has much smaller dimensions, in the steel making they use 10-20Hz, then 50Hz sounds a bit too low to me, perhaps that’s why the TRIAC to have higher frequency harmonics. Anyhow the drawback of complex waveform in power measurments can be mitigated if one separates the complexity (for stimulation) to the low resistant coil.

    • Bob Greenyer

      We are trying to replicate Parkhomov – whilst the apparatus is different, in his 3 day run, we are trying to keep as much as possible the same

      – rules for raising temperature

      – Ni (Exact Same)

      – LiAlH4 (Exact Same)

      – Thyristor controlled Phase Angle chopped AC

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        Great!, cool show btw. Anyhow I just wanted o ventilate my thoughts in case they could be helpful and also a way for me to learn more.

        • Bob Greenyer

          That is why this is live!

  • ecatworld

    Can anyone read what the pressure is? — too fuzzy for me

    • Ged

      Looks like it’s around 84 PSI now.

      • ecatworld

        Thanks, Ged

    • Bob Greenyer

      I will upload some screen grabs

      • Ged

        Looks like we’re finally done loading the nickel, perhaps? Pressure seems to be going up with temperature finally.

        • Bob Greenyer

          let’s see

  • Frank Acland

    Can anyone read what the pressure is? — too fuzzy for me

    • Ged

      Looks like it’s around 84 PSI now.

      • Frank Acland

        Thanks, Ged

    • Bob Greenyer

      I will upload some screen grabs

      • Ged

        Looks like we’re finally done loading the nickel, perhaps? Pressure seems to be going up with temperature finally.

        • Bob Greenyer

          let’s see

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    Bob, can you reduce the time range average, for the pressure graph?

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    Bob, can you reduce the time range average, for the pressure graph?

  • Bob Greenyer

    There are a whole load more hi res screen grabs in the shared google drive folder

    • Ged

      Thank you, Bob!

    • Hi Bob

      Are you listening, to what people are posting on E-Catworld and or the live chat in the Youtube?

      Is the Gamma count using a microphone in front of the Geiger Counter speaker? Or do you have a microphone connected on the same line?

      Or is that count on the screen real? In other words via a USB or line input?

      If it is the former stop putting it up on screen, it is giving miss leading data!

      If it is the latter PAY ATTENTION it has quite high for some time.

      Also if it is the latter then, on Youtube Aleksandr Albert suggested you put a shield between the Geiger counter and the reactor to see if it alters the count, so as to confirm that is the source.

      Kind Regard walker

  • Bob Greenyer

    There are a whole load more hi res screen grabs in the shared google drive folder

    • Ged

      Thank you, Bob!

      Edit: Sadly that glare makes reading the VIP really hard.

      Edit2: Nevermind! Thanks for taking care of that glare and giving a good shot of the screen!

    • Hi Bob

      Are you listening, to what people are posting on E-Catworld and or the live chat in the Youtube?

      Is the Gamma count using a microphone in front of the Geiger Counter speaker? Or do you have a microphone connected on the same line?

      Or is that count on the screen real? In other words via a USB or line input?

      If it is the former stop putting it up on screen, it is giving miss leading data!

      If it is the latter PAY ATTENTION it has quite high for some time.

      Also if it is the latter then, on Youtube Aleksandr Albert suggested you put a shield between the Geiger counter and the reactor to see if it alters the count, so as to confirm that is the source.

      Kind Regard walker

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    Bob, Can you default to just showing the pressure graph and IR as the main part of the stream. The current default orientation is pretty much unreadable.

    • Ged

      Seeing power is very useful too, though I’m not sure how to read the VIP3 exactly.

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    Bob, Can you default to just showing the pressure graph and IR as the main part of the stream. The current default orientation is pretty much unreadable.

    • Ged

      Seeing power is very useful too, though I’m not sure how to read the VIP3 exactly.

  • NT

    Good show Bob & everyone, do you guys ever sleep?

    • Ged

      I hear coffee sales in Padua have skyrocketted in the last few hours.

      • NT

        Ha, as George says, I wonder if he is awake and watching from ole merry England…

    • Bob Greenyer

      I feel like I have never slept right now!

      It has been an utterly punishing week – but we had to try and make this happen and we have MANY people to thank.

  • NT

    Good show Bob & everyone, do you guys ever sleep?

    • Ged

      I hear coffee sales in Padua have skyrocketted in the last few hours.

      • NT

        Ha, as George says, I wonder if he is awake and watching from ole merry England…

    • Bob Greenyer

      I feel like I have never slept right now!

      It has been an utterly punishing week – but we had to try and make this happen and we have MANY people to thank.

  • LuFong

    Isn’t 700C the magic number–when the reaction starts? Can this be detected or does the temperature have to rise some more to see excess heat?

    • Ged

      Hm, I thought it was at 900 C for Parkhomov, and 700ish was the last major disassociation peak for the LiAlH4 (which we see right now)? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

      • LuFong

        I’m just asking. Based on one of the Parkhomov’s slides:

        At temperatures above 700°C, the reactor with fuel consumes less power than the same reactor without fuel.

        This indicates the presence of a source of heat in addition to the electric heater.

        Not sure if these heaters are comparable.

        Pressure is rising again and the pressure curves don’t look the same to me.

        • Ged

          Yeah, this LiAlH4 is very different in response than the stateside version they had (looks different, Bob stated, too). Such interesting behavior. Don’t know if we can tell if there is excess at the moment, or if we’ll need to see the full analysis after, as I can’t figure out how to read the VIP to know the input power. Just need to compare the ratio of input power to heat against the calibration for this device (and Alain’s run).

          • LuFong

            Parkhomov compared without fuel to with fuel. Less power with fuel at about 700C. But since it’s not happening, onward to 900C. I can’t read the pressure or power displays either. Slow laptop today.

          • Ged

            How do we know if it’s less or not though? Can you make out the power in?

          • LuFong

            To know you have to compare power for a given temperature with calibration versus with fuel. Don’t have that.

            But pressure is dropping now at 725C. Maybe close enough?

          • Ged

            Getting more absorption into the nickel I guess. Apparently that hungry stuff wasn’t done guzzling hydrogen.

          • Gamma Spike = Reaction onset

          • artefact

            Counts where over 700…

          • Reached a Thousand at one point

          • Ged

            Got over 1000 and over .5 mR/h for nearly a minute or so at one point (or more, I had gone to bed). Not sure how significant that is though, but it’s about an order of magnitude where it usually sits.

          • artefact

            They said that just the click sound is real. The graphs are calculated via a microphone and every noise influences it.

          • Ged

            Makes sense. Have to review the live stream to count the clicks then. A bit more of a pain.

          • Axil Axil

            Did you notice if the gamma appeared when the pressure turned around and began to decrease? Dis you notice how long that the gamma burst lasted?

          • artefact

            I think they lasted one to three minutes. Some minutes later the next burst occoured.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Maybe – need to review live stream later

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes – that analysis will take time and point to point analysis of the VIP and its periodic printouts.

      • LuFong

        Reading the MFMP Reaction hypothesis, it looks like the first event is at 688.7C, the melting point of LiH. I think this would be the internal temperature but we are seeing the external temperature. After that it’s mentioned that maybe between 900-1000C when LiH decomposes (disassociates). So it looks like things are progressing.

      • Sanjeev

        The Parkhomov Ni is amazing, it brought down the pressure from 300 to 30 and still absorbing. I was not expecting that.

        • Axil Axil

          The assumption that hydrogen is being absorbed in the nickel is not born out by the ash assay in the Lagano report. Very little if any hydrogen is found in the Lagano nickel particles.

          What is more likely, a solid crystalline dust could be forming in a cold plasma. This state is called a cold dusty plasma.

          • Mats002

            …and a cold dusty plasma would lower the pressure?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Probably yes. Such clusters of hydrogen have been detected by Santilli. Lowering the number of particles in the system would lower the pressure.

          • Axil Axil

            The dust would find its way to the surface of the nickel particle but would not penetrate onto the nickel. Coordination of a gas to a solid will reduce gas pressure.. This solid is nanoparticles or Rydberg matter. Like palladium, surface cracking marks any hydride formation on the nickel particles. In the Lagano ash the tubercles look unaffected by cranking.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_hydride

            Hot nickel releases hydrogen from its surface.

          • Sanjeev

            I guess you are joking 😀

          • Axil Axil

            It sounds like you have some strongly held unproven assumptions about the chemical processes going on inside the reactor.

          • Sanjeev

            No. Let the experiment and ash analysis decide. Why assume something when you can know.

          • Axil Axil

            The ash analysis was done for the Lagano experiment.

          • Sanjeev

            Lets repeat and reproduce, till no doubt remains. One analysis is not enough.

          • Axil Axil

            One important function of this site is education. Unfounded assumptions should not be promulgated in the face of existing contributory experimental results, Withhold opinion until all doubt is removed.

          • Sanjeev

            Yes, I agree.

          • MWerner

            Is it not possible that Hydrogen is not found in the ash analysis, because it all “evaporates” away soon after the ash is removed from the reactor? (de-absorbes:-)

          • Sanjeev

            There are many possibilities. Of course, one of them is that Hydrogen fuses with Li or Ni, so nothing to be found in ash. I’m sure there are many people who will disagree. The bottom line is, more experiments will be needed, that can be openly and reliably reproduced on demand, to conclude anything.

          • US_Citizen71

            @MFMP For calibration of the ‘GlowStick’ heater have you run a blank core with a thermocouple in the middle of the core? If not it would be a simple test. The thermocouple leads could be run through an alumina rod with double holes and the end sealed with epoxy. A rod can be put in first and a load of nickel powder as well. Making the blank as close as possible with the exception of pressure to a fueled run. To me that would give the best baseline of what temperature the core is experiencing compared with the IR camera temperature value.

          • Ged

            They have. It was done before Alain’s test, it’s how they know what the internal should be given the external.

            Edit: some info here http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/mfmp-blog/477-glowstick#!Cal_710w_720C

          • US_Citizen71

            The should put that in the screen capture folder.

          • Ged

            That would be convenient!

          • US_Citizen71

            As far I can tell they didn’t do a calibration run with a thermocouple sealed inside a dummy. It appears all cores were sealed with a swageloc, can’t run wires through one of those.

          • Obvious

            Rossi’s TC (protection tube) must be pretty hard core.

          • US_Citizen71

            I would think it would have to be to survive and protect the leads for months at a time.

            I’m not asking for MFMP to come up with a method to have a TC inside during fueled runs. What I would like them to do is show experimentally what the temperature inside the core when the temperature is shown to be X on the outside by the IR camera or what ever method they decide to use to measure the outside temperature. Page 4 http://www.coorstek.com/resource-library/library/8510-1031_tubes_rods.pdf lists alumina rods with double holes running the length of the rod that have an outer diameter as small as 1.6mm. I would think that an appropriate sized rod would allow a TC to be placed on the tip and allow the leads a way out of a dummy/blank reactor. It would then just be a matter of heating the dummy up by 50 degree C increments as seen by the external measuring device, letting it settle and recording the temperature reported by the TC. That way they could develop a chart showing what the internal temperature should be when X is reported on the outside. As far as I can tell they haven’t done this and are using a calculation to determine what the internal temperature should be, which might be completely valid. But, they don’t ever show their calculation and a chart with experimental data would be far easier for the casual observer to understand than an equation.

          • Obvious

            That’s the inside data. Of course from only one run.. probably enough to get an idea of what happens inside anyways.
            Here are molten lithium-aluminum proof TC protection.

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/04/02/e-cat-world-collaborative-project-proposal-to-create-instruction-document-on-how-to-replicate-parkhomov/#comment-1954147081

          • Bob Matulis

            Love this dialogue – I am learning a lot!

          • Mats002
          • Bob Matulis

            Thanks. I think I will limit my suggestions to the mechanical and materials aspects. This is far beyond my engineering physics!

          • Axil Axil

            The unit looks like it is flickering in the intensity of the light it is producing. Some purple appears to form at the edges of the tube in a cycle. Am I seeing thinks? Is that flickering a result of automated temperature control? The outside temperature is also flickering.

          • Obvious

            I think that is the temperature controller partly, then the camera adjusts, making it look more pulsing than it is.

          • Ophelia Rump

            Am I misreading the meaning of the lines crossing then diverging?
            It seems to me that the power requirement dropped while the heat has increased, that is not something you expect from a linear relationship. It seems like a strong indicator of excess heat to me.

            Have I missed something important here?

          • The purple line is pressure and the light blue line seems to be temperature.
            So no indication for excess heat…unfortunateley.

            we don’t see input power, so WE can’t make any conclusions. Only in the way the temperature would rise suddenly to a runaway.

          • Ophelia Rump

            Thank you Barty. If these tests are demonstrating anything it is that it seems to be far easier to build a LENR reactor than it is to prove how much energy you get out of one. This is something quite remarkable, I enjoy looking in on these magnificent adventures. It is like springtime and we are looking for the first few flowers to bloom. Soon there will be profusion.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Listen to the clicks of the relay when you observe the image.

          • US_Citizen71

            It is caused by the power cycling the kantal gives off visible light like a light bulb filament. The alumina lets the light shine through. The webcam has a characteristic of displaying near visible infrared as white as well so the effect is magnified on the stream.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Above 700 – if been to 1200 first maybe?

  • Axil Axil

    Regarding Update 8…

    Dr. Vladimir Dubinko term breathers are what I call solitons.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton

    What Quantum Gravity Research calls quasi crystals I call Rydberg matter.

    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1002/1002.1570.pdf

    I try to use the accepted scientific names for these things so if and when LENR theory is read by professional scientists they understand the terms and associated concepts that are being used.

    It is important for LENR terrorists to use proper scientific tems in their theory so others expert in the field can understand what they are taking about.

    And also important, these names and concepts can be accessed on Wikipedia and on the scientific paper preprint internet site arxiv at http://www.arxiv.org/ for background description and not serve only as confusing LENR buzz words.

    • Alain Samoun

      “LENR terrorists” Axil are you now with the dark side like the nuke and oil people?
      😉

      • Axil Axil

        I make these kinds of mistakes at the end of the day when I proof read without glasses.

        • Obvious

          The auto spell complete on my pad drives me crazy with stuff like that. You should see the junk it comes up with.

  • Axil Axil

    Regarding Update 8…

    Dr. Vladimir Dubinko term breathers are what I call solitons.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton

    What Quantum Gravity Research calls quasi crystals I call Rydberg matter.

    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1002/1002.1570.pdf

    I try to use the accepted scientific names for these things so if and when LENR theory is read by professional scientists they understand the terms and associated concepts that are being used.

    It is important for LENR theorists to use proper scientific terms in their theory so others expert in the field can understand what they are taking about.

    And also important, these names and concepts can be accessed on Wikipedia and on the scientific paper preprint internet site arxiv at http://www.arxiv.org/ for background description and not serve only as confusing LENR buzz words.

    • Alain Samoun

      “LENR terrorists” Axil are you now with the dark side like the nuke and oil people?
      😉

      • Axil Axil

        I make these kinds of mistakes at the end of the day when I proof read without glasses.

        • Obvious

          The auto spell complete on my pad drives me crazy with stuff like that. You should see the junk it comes up with.

  • Gamma Spike = Reaction onset

    • artefact

      Counts where over 700… and now again over 950

      • Reached a Thousand at one point

      • Ged

        Seems my view of the site hadn’t refreshed with all the new comments and mine was redundant as well as 10 hour late, hah.

        • artefact

          They said that just the click sound is real. The graphs are calculated via a microphone and every noise influences it.

          • Ged

            Makes sense. Have to review the live stream to count the clicks then. A bit more of a pain.

    • Axil Axil

      Did you notice if the gamma appeared when the pressure turned around and began to decrease? Did you notice how long that the gamma burst lasted?

      • artefact

        I think they lasted one to three minutes. Some minutes later the next burst occured.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Maybe – need to review live stream later

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    Bob, whats the max temp being targetted.

    • Bob Greenyer

      High – we have enough headroom to put 2kW in – and that would melt everything if the Kanthal A1 didn’t go first.

      We will definitely go to 1200 on the core, as Parkhomov guides as critical, at the moment we are a little over 1100 on the core with a significant hotspot that may be close to 1200 internally.

      • Patrick Ellul

        Just to clarify, that is in Kelvin. All the live charts you read are in C. So current temp is 860C 1130K. So this is the Parkhomov range. However the pressure is still way much higher than Parkhomov’s.

        • Bob Greenyer

          No – a per the GS2 calibration and active runs from previous tests (which this reactor is in line with) 900ºC at the sensor point corresponds to around 1250ºC internal to the core.

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    Bob, whats the max temp being targetted.

    • Bob Greenyer

      High – we have enough headroom to put 2kW in – and that would melt everything if the Kanthal A1 didn’t go first.

      We will definitely go to 1200 on the core, as Parkhomov guides as critical, at the moment we are a little over 1100 on the core with a significant hotspot that may be close to 1200 internally.

      • Patrick Ellul

        Just to clarify, that is in Kelvin. All the live charts you read are in C. So current temp is 860C 1130K. So this is the Parkhomov range. However the pressure is still way much higher than Parkhomov’s.

        • Bob Greenyer

          No – a per the GS2 calibration and active runs from previous tests (which this reactor is in line with) 900ºC at the sensor point corresponds to around 1250ºC internal to the core.

  • artefact

    CPM was 1280 for some minutes at 08:28.

    • Bob Greenyer

      We have done some radiation tests – nothing above background appears to be occurring – sadly we lost the 4″ NaI yesterday

  • artefact

    CPM was 1280 for some minutes at 08:28.

    • Bob Greenyer

      We have done some radiation tests – nothing above background appears to be occurring – sadly we lost the 4″ NaI yesterday

  • Hi all

    On the matter of pressure and loading The LiAlH thermally decomposes in three stages each produces
    Hydrogen and therefore a pressure increase. Dependent on pressure the following
    happens.

    First Phase 3 LiAlH4 → Li3AlH6 + 2 Al + 3 H2

    Second Phase 2 Li3AlH6 → 6 LiH + 2 Al + 3 H2

    Third Phase where we are now 2 LiH + 2 Al → 2 LiAl + H2

    At the same time the pressure pounds the Hydrogen into the
    Nickel so that drops pressure.

    You have to do this slowly or the surface becomes saturated
    and you kill the reaction.

    Once all the octahedral sites in a granule of nickel fuel are occupied by hydrogen
    it is saturated.

    Then you get a phase shift in the crystal structure it begins to occupy
    tetrahedral sites and the Nickel becomes super saturated.

    I think this is when you see stepwise drops in pressure.

    Whether this phase shift initiates or poisons the reaction is a question.

    According to Parkhomov the anomalous heat occurs when the pressure settles.

    The ratio of LiAlH to Nickel may be important.

    And we still have the RF magnetic content of the reaction to consider. It is
    all very much like baking a cake, so we need more research to specify the
    reaction and hone the method.

    Kind Regards walker

    • Mats002

      I think we are looking at two different heat cycle algortims. The first is for baking the cake, the other for consuming the cake.

      It should be possible to pre-bake this cake using the first heat-cycle algoritm. Then ship pre-baked cores to end-users. This method have two benefits:

      a) safe for end-users because they need not to be in touch with the chemicals

      b) high quality core made by professionals

      End-users would use the other heat-cycle algoritm that is optimized for consuming the cake.

      • Bob Greenyer

        This is a possibility

        • Hi all

          In reply to Frank Mats002 and Bob.

          On the matter of pre bake:

          Yes setting up a production line would be the way to get but need to do the research first to find out what the method is, hence what you are doing now.

          Kind Regards walker

      • ecatworld

        When Rossi brought his powder to the test in Lugano, I think it must have been prebaked.

      • Patrick Ellul

        Many time Rossi clearly hinted that the way to prepare the fuel is using the e-cat itself.

  • Hi all

    On the matter of pressure and loading The LiAlH thermally decomposes in three stages each produces
    Hydrogen and therefore a pressure increase. Dependent on pressure the following
    happens.

    First Phase 3 LiAlH4 → Li3AlH6 + 2 Al + 3 H2

    Second Phase 2 Li3AlH6 → 6 LiH + 2 Al + 3 H2

    Third Phase where we are now 2 LiH + 2 Al → 2 LiAl + H2

    At the same time the pressure pounds the Hydrogen into the Nickel so that drops pressure.

    You have to do this slowly or the surface becomes saturated and you kill the reaction.

    Once all the octahedral sites in a granule of nickel fuel are occupied by hydrogen it is saturated.

    Then you get a phase shift in the crystal structure it begins to occupy tetrahedral sites and the Nickel becomes super saturated.

    I think this is when you see stepwise drops in pressure.

    Whether this phase shift initiates or poisons the reaction is a question.

    According to Parkhomov the anomalous heat occurs when the pressure settles.

    The ratio of LiAlH to Nickel may be important.

    And we still have the RF magnetic content of the reaction to consider. It is all very much like baking a cake, so we need more research to specify the reaction and hone the method.

    Kind Regards walker

    • Mats002

      I think we are looking at two different heat cycle algortims. The first is for baking the cake, the other for consuming the cake.

      It should be possible to pre-bake this cake using the first heat-cycle algoritm. Then ship pre-baked cores to end-users. This method have two benefits:

      a) safe for end-users because they need not to be in touch with the chemicals

      b) high quality core made by professionals

      End-users would use the other heat-cycle algoritm that is optimized for consuming the cake.

      • Bob Greenyer

        This is a possibility

        • Hi all

          In reply to Frank Mats002 and Bob.

          On the matter of pre bake:

          Yes setting up a production line would be the way to get but need to do the research first to find out what the method is, hence what you are doing now.

          Kind Regards walker

      • Frank Acland

        When Rossi brought his powder to the test in Lugano, I think it must have been prebaked.

      • Patrick Ellul

        Many time Rossi clearly hinted that the way to prepare the fuel is using the e-cat itself.

  • Need a new stream!

  • Hi all

    Gamma CPM is now above 1000 for a long time

    Kind Regards walker

  • Hi all

    Gamma CPM is now above 1000 for a long time

    Kind Regards walker

  • BOB ARE YOU WATCHING THAT GEIGER COUNTER!

    • Hi all

      To Bob Greenyer

      On Youtube Aleksandr Albert suggested you put a sheild between the Geiger counter and the reactor to see if it alters the count, so as to confirm that is the source.

      Kind Regards walker

  • BOB ARE YOU WATCHING THAT GEIGER COUNTER!

    • Hi all

      To Bob Greenyer

      On Youtube Aleksandr Albert suggested you put a sheild between the Geiger counter and the reactor to see if it alters the count, so as to confirm that is the source.

      Kind Regards walker

  • @bobgreenyer:disqus
    Do you have a chatroom (maybe with invitation) where, let’s say 1 – 2 people of the community can get in contact with you to forward messages and infos to you and get from you?
    Would be less stressing for you to just answer questions in one chatroom as on several communities 🙂

    If you want you can come online at LENR Forum chat room: http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/chat/index.php/Chat/1-LENR-Chat/

    Login with facebook, twitter or google account is possible. You don’t have to register 😉

    • Bob Greenyer

      Yes – I will invite Frank

  • ecatworld

    As a reference, here’s the pressure/temperature chart from Parkhomov’s most recent test:

    • ecatworld

      1 bar = 14.5 psi

      • artefact

        A difference with this run now is that the LiAlH4 is not grinded to very smal particles (the humidity was too high) so the decomposition takes a little longer.

        • ecatworld

          Pressure is dropping steadily still. 71 psi now, so general trend is similar to Parkhomov’s.

          • Sanjeev

            The rate of drop is 10 psi per hour (currently), so it may take 5 more hours to drop to 14 psi and may go lower.

          • ecatworld

            That’s fine — I have time 🙂

          • Mats002

            Looking at the diagram above, it seems Parkhomov got pressure below 0 before XH begun at (do not remember) about 1100 degrees(?)

          • Sanjeev

            This graph shows that he started seeing XH after 800°C. (reactor surface temperature).

          • Mats002

            Thanks. This text is taken from ECW article http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/03/21/mfmp-reports-parkhomov-breakthrough-90-minutes-of-excess-heat/

            “For the first time [Parkhonmov] successfully managed to mount a pressure gauge installation. With slow heating, the maximum pressure of 5 bar at 200 ° C was reached, and then the pressure was reduced at a temperature of about 1000C to become negative. The most powerful vacuum of about 0.5 bar at a temperature of 1150 ° C was.”

          • Sanjeev

            The graph posted above by Frank does show that the pressure reached 0 (1 bar) at 800C.

          • Obvious

            ………………………………………………………………………………………………I…….
            …………………………………………………………………………………………..1175°C

          • ecatworld

            Here’s the slide from his presentation that shows when the XH started to manifest

          • ecatworld

            See this slide from Parkhomov’s March test

        • Bob Greenyer

          You may have a point with this – bigger grains, slower drop

  • Frank Acland

    As a reference, here’s the pressure/temperature chart from Parkhomov’s most recent test:

    • Frank Acland

      1 bar = 14.5 psi

      • artefact

        A difference with this run now is that the LiAlH4 is not grinded to very smal particles (the humidity was too high) so the decomposition takes a little longer.

        • Frank Acland

          Pressure is dropping steadily still. 71 psi now, so general trend is similar to Parkhomov’s.

          • Sanjeev

            The rate of drop is 10 psi per hour (currently), so it may take 5 more hours to drop to 14 psi and may go lower.

          • Frank Acland

            That’s fine — I have time 🙂

          • Mats002

            Looking at the diagram above, it seems Parkhomov got pressure below 0 before XH begun at (do not remember) about 1100 degrees(?)

          • Sanjeev

            This graph shows that he started seeing XH after 800°C. (reactor surface temperature).

          • Mats002

            Thanks. This text is taken from ECW article http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/03/21/mfmp-reports-parkhomov-breakthrough-90-minutes-of-excess-heat/

            “For the first time [Parkhonmov] successfully managed to mount a pressure gauge installation. With slow heating, the maximum pressure of 5 bar at 200 ° C was reached, and then the pressure was reduced at a temperature of about 1000C to become negative. The most powerful vacuum of about 0.5 bar at a temperature of 1150 ° C was.”

          • Sanjeev

            The graph posted above by Frank does show that the pressure reached 0 (1 bar) at 800C.

          • Obvious

            ………………………………………………………………………………………………I…….
            …………………………………………………………………………………………..1175°C

          • Frank Acland

            See this slide from Parkhomov’s March test

        • Bob Greenyer

          You may have a point with this – bigger grains, slower drop

  • Remi ANDRE

    I follow the LENR adventure for 4 years now and recently I had this idea : would it be possible that among the regular lattice there could be irregularities (due to impurities) that focus EM waves so that the pressure could increase enough to permit the electron capture and then create low energy neutron ? Today I am reading this : http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nl503409k and I think it would be worth to contact those guys…

  • Remi ANDRE

    I follow the LENR adventure for 4 years now and recently I had this idea : would it be possible that among the regular lattice there could be irregularities (due to impurities) that focus EM waves so that the pressure could increase enough to permit the electron capture and then create low energy neutron ? Today I am reading this : http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nl503409k and I think it would be worth to contact those guys…

  • Sanjeev

    Researches of the Heat Generators Similar to High Temperature Rossi Reactor (ICCF19 paper)
    A.G.Parkhomov, E.O.Belousova
    Lomonosov Moscow State University, Moscow, Russia
    https://yadi.sk/d/_agVKcYdg5GdH

  • Sanjeev

    Researches of the Heat Generators Similar to High Temperature Rossi Reactor (ICCF19 paper)
    A.G.Parkhomov, E.O.Belousova
    Lomonosov Moscow State University, Moscow, Russia
    https://yadi.sk/d/_agVKcYdg5GdH

  • Sanjeev

    Can someone tell which side of the tube in the IR image contains the powder ? left or right ?

    • Sanjeev

      I’m asking this because the right side seems 50°C hotter than the left. But the comparison with calibration shows no excess.

      • Bob Greenyer

        In theory – they both have, however, the fuel was loaded from the other end to the pressure sensor which may mean that there is a higher packing density on the right hand side

        • Sanjeev

          I see, so this is not exactly a repeat of last glowstick. Thanks.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The last glow stick was the same.

  • Sanjeev

    Can someone tell which side of the tube in the IR image contains the powder ? left or right ?

    • Sanjeev

      I’m asking this because the right side seems 50°C hotter than the left. But the comparison with calibration shows no excess.

      • Bob Greenyer

        In theory – they both have, however, the fuel was loaded from the other end to the pressure sensor which may mean that there is a higher packing density on the right hand side

        • Sanjeev

          I see, so this is not exactly a repeat of last glowstick. Thanks.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The last glow stick was the same.

  • ecatworld

    Alan Goldwater just said that according to Alexander Parkhomov we shouldn’t expect to see excess heat until the pressure bottoms out, which he projects to be in about 4 hours.

    • Sanjeev

      Yes, there is a correlation between pressure reaching 0 and start of XH in case of Parkhomov. I think its worth waiting for 4-5 hours before trying anything else.

    • seems like pressure is now not decreasing anymore…

      • Mats002

        Parkhomov had a giant preassure meter with quite a lot space inside both the meter and the pipe going to the device. MFMP have another arrangement. Can this difference in setup explain the differenve in lowest point of preassure?

        • It’s falling again 😉

  • Frank Acland

    Alan Goldwater just said that according to Alexander Parkhomov we shouldn’t expect to see excess heat until the pressure bottoms out, which he projects to be in about 4 hours.

    • Sanjeev

      Yes, there is a correlation between pressure reaching 0 and start of XH in case of Parkhomov. I think its worth waiting for 4-5 hours before trying anything else.

    • seems like pressure is now not decreasing anymore…

      • Mats002

        Parkhomov had a giant preassure meter with quite a lot space inside both the meter and the pipe going to the device. MFMP have another arrangement. Can this difference in setup explain the differenve in lowest point of preassure?

        • It’s falling again 😉

  • jim raignnor

    Should wait until pressure bottom out

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Parkhomov was getting 200C at 3.5 bar (~50 psi), whereas the GlowStick is currently at 860-870C with the same pressure. Why the discrepancy?

      • timycelyn

        coarser Lithal grains has already been noted. Also Parkhomov could have had a minor leak….

      • Sanjeev

        The two setups are not identical. The internal volume is the main difference, and probably insulation. The powders are identical, so there is some hope.

  • jim raignnor

    Should wait until pressure bottom out

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Parkhomov was getting 200C at 3.5 bar (~50 psi), whereas the GlowStick is currently at 860-870C with the same pressure. Why the discrepancy?

      • timycelyn

        coarser Lithal grains has already been noted. Also Parkhomov could have had a minor leak….

      • Sanjeev

        The two setups are not identical. The internal volume is the main difference, and probably insulation. The powders are identical, so there is some hope.

      • MWerner

        Pressure is the thing that will vary the most in these experiments. It is a function of volume, temperature, time at temperature, amount of absorption, etc… Just dead volume based on the design of the glow stick will affect pressure.
        It will be the shape of the pressure curve relative to time and temperature that is most interesting.
        Of course there may be some minimum required pressure to kick things off.

  • suhas R

    I wish I could get his contact info

  • Private Citizen

    Glowstick test is looking historic. Fingers crossed. Declining pressure at increasingly high temps, gasses apparently going into the metal.

  • Private Citizen

    Glowstick test is looking historic. Fingers crossed. Declining pressure at increasingly high temps, gasses apparently going into the metal.

  • ecatworld

    Here’s a question passed on to me via Bob Greenyer — he’s looking for the community’s sentiment, so please reply to this comment with your response:

    “In the available 12-15 hours, should we focus on getting the pressure as close as possible to 0.5bar, or getting the temperature to between 1200ºC and 1300ºC, how much time will be allocated to each.”

    “The focus of the experiment is to “Bake a Cake” that is, to try and initiate elemental/isotopic shifts. We have been given the opportunity to have ash samples tested properly.”

    • Mats002

      If holding steady at this temperature and pressure is slowly dropping at a constant power input (we do not see the power input which would be nice), I wonder if at some point (no idea when) the power input would start to decrease keeping the same temperature. If so that would be the signal to increase power. Or not.

    • Ecco

      Won’t increasing temperatures also increase the pressure drop rate?

      • Sanjeev

        How high can it go without burning down everything ?

        • Ecco

          I believe they are able to reach at least 1000 °C external.

          • Sanjeev

            So we have some room.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Plenty of room – we don’t what to make lithium boil until the pressure is low.

          • Sanjeev

            What caused the sudden drop of pressure? A/C turned on ?
            Can it be repeated?

          • Ecco

            if it’s not a leak, I speculate it could be due to some of the unalloyed nickel
            melting in a hot spot. Hydrogen solubility of certain metals such as Iron increases in
            a stepwise fashion at their melting point. Nickel is in the Iron group.
            The following graph is for Iron: http://www.keytometals.com/images/Articles/kts/Fig206_1.jpg

          • Sanjeev

            Yes, not a leak, because the rate is back to normal. I thought it was caused by some temperature drop. Heat cycling can increase the absorption rate, I heard somewhere.

    • LuFong

      Follow Parkhomov’s script as best as possible. Not sure if Parkhomov’s .5 bar included the effects of a small leak–makes it a tough call 🙂 Remember also that you can take this glowstick and start it up again (assuming no failures) so go carefully since time is not really a constraint.

    • Nicholas Cafarelli

      5 hours for pressure drop, or less if it hits target low, 6 hours for ramp up and running, 1 hour to experiment at end by turning heat completely off for ten minute intervals. Intervals are meant to investigate cool down evidence for HAD.

      • Mats002

        Agree looking for HAD at the end of this run.

    • Dods

      How long is the offer for isotopic shift analysis open for?
      Based on the answer to that I would say carry on loading and retest the loaded glow stick at a later date if time permits. If not go for it and start heating when they need to.

    • Sanjeev

      At this rate the pressure will take more than a day to go down below atmospheric. Temperature can be increased to 50-100°C (if there is room) to see if the rate of drop becomes faster.

    • Ged

      I agree with Sanjeev, raising the temp slowly now seems the better course, as pressure drop has slowed down significantly; so loading could be pretty saturated.

    • Dr. Mike

      My recommendation is focus on raising the temperature to the 1200C+ range. If the pressure does not come down significantly while raising the temperature, then the cause needs investigated.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Internally we are over 1200ºC

        we are going to head close to 1250ºC next

        • Teemu Soilamo

          Can we see the internal temp in the livecast?

          • Bob Greenyer

            No – you need to look at the reactor type calibration chart.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      If one would heat the reactor up and let it then cool down a bit pressure should drop if not larger amounts of the adsorbed hydrogen are released. As soon as the pressure is low enough the heater could be restarted.

  • Frank Acland

    Here’s a question passed on to me via Bob Greenyer — he’s looking for the community’s sentiment, so please reply to this comment with your response:

    “In the available 12-15 hours, should we focus on getting the pressure as close as possible to 0.5bar, or getting the temperature to between 1200ºC and 1300ºC, how much time will be allocated to each.”

    “The focus of the experiment is to “Bake a Cake” that is, to try and initiate elemental/isotopic shifts. We have been given the opportunity to have ash samples tested properly.”

    • Mats002

      If holding steady at this temperature and pressure is slowly dropping at a constant power input (we do not see the power input which would be nice), I wonder if at some point (no idea when) the power input would start to decrease keeping the same temperature. If so that would be the signal to increase power. Or not.

    • Nicholas Cafarelli

      5 hours for pressure drop, or less if it hits target low, 6 hours for ramp up and running, 1 hour to experiment at end by turning heat completely off for ten minute intervals. Intervals are meant to investigate cool down evidence for HAD. This means no power for ten minutes alternated with power on for ten minutes.

      • Mats002

        Agree looking for HAD at the end of this run.

    • Dods

      How long is the offer for isotopic shift analysis open for?
      Based on the answer to that I would say carry on loading and retest the loaded glow stick at a later date if time permits. If not go for it and start heating when they need to.

    • Sanjeev

      At this rate the pressure will take more than a day to go down below atmospheric. Temperature can be increased to 50-100°C (if there is room) to see if the rate of drop becomes faster.

    • Ged

      I agree with Sanjeev, raising the temp slowly now seems the better course, as pressure drop has slowed down significantly; so loading could be pretty saturated.

    • MWerner

      Too many simple variations can have a big effect on the absolute pressure. Rate of change of pressure is likely a better measure of loading.
      I vote temperature is a more important factor once pressure stabilizes. Question is how stable is Stable. Looks close enough to press on with temperature.

    • Dr. Mike

      My recommendation is focus on raising the temperature to the 1200C+ range. If the pressure does not come down significantly while raising the temperature, then the cause needs investigated.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Internally we are over 1200ºC

        we are going to head close to 1250ºC next

        • Teemu Soilamo

          Can we see the internal temp in the livecast?

          • Bob Greenyer

            No – you need to look at the reactor type calibration chart.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      If one would heat the reactor up and let it then cool down a bit pressure should drop if not larger amounts of the adsorbed hydrogen are released. As soon as the pressure is low enough the heater could be restarted.

  • Hank Mills

    If we are not going to at least reach 1200C external – not internal – the whole effort will have potentially been futile because in Parkhomov’s original tests the excess heat is not found until very high external temps are reached. All of these external temperatures were high enough to vaporize lithium. For example, at 1290C external (probably 1500 internal) he obtained a COP of 2.7 and eight minutes of self sustain. At 1000 + external, which would mean probably 1300C internal, he found zero excess heat.

    ZERO.

    My proposal:

    Ramp up to 1300C EXTERNAL in whatever way will be least likely to burn out the wire before that temp is reached. Then observe for as long as possible and at some point turn off the power all at once to look for HAD.

    1300 INTERNAL may show NOTHING.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Is the temp that we’re getting in the stream internal or external? Also, a temp graph would be nice…

  • Hank Mills

    If we are not going to at least reach 1200C external – not internal – the whole effort will have potentially been futile because in Parkhomov’s original tests the excess heat is not found until very high external temps are reached. All of these external temperatures were high enough to vaporize lithium. For example, at 1290C external (probably 1500 internal) he obtained a COP of 2.7 and eight minutes of self sustain. At 1000 + external, which would mean probably 1300C internal, he found zero excess heat.

    ZERO.

    My proposal:

    Ramp up to 1300C EXTERNAL in whatever way will be least likely to burn out the wire before that temp is reached. Then observe for as long as possible and at some point turn off the power all at once to look for HAD.

    1300 INTERNAL may show NOTHING.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Is the temp that we’re getting in the stream internal or external? Also, a temp graph would be nice…

  • timycelyn

    I can’t get a complete impression of the rate of pressure fall with only these high resolution pressure charts. Would it be possible to get a screen grab for a smaller scale graph covering (say) the last four hours?

    My suspicion is that it will be clear looking at that, that we will not get down to PArkhomov type pressures for reasons already discussed in the time avaialble.

    In which case, I’d recommend ramping up the temperature to get to 1200C+ external, once it had been cooked at the 850C intermediate temperature as long as Parkhomov’s reactor was.

    • Sanjeev

      The shared folder has some 24 hour range graphs of pressure. It matches (in shape) to Parkhomov’s.

      • timycelyn

        Thanks. Is that the screengrabs folder Bob has put up, linked above? I’ve looked in there and though there are some general 24 hr things, I’m looking for something up to date covering the last 4-5 hrs. I’m just trying to get a feel for the rate at which this pressure fall is levelling out at.

        We seem to be down to 7-8 psi/hr now, but that’s going to continue decreasing.

        I’m not sure what impact raising the temperature would have on this – Temperature pressure rise vs accelerated rate of uptake into the metal?

        • Sanjeev

          Yes, the rate slowed down to 4psi/hr I guess. The temperature rise should increase the pressure further, but the absorption may also increase. Can’t say.

    • Ged

      We may just have a higher baseline than Parkhomov had due to volume and load amount differences, and the nickel could be pretty much fully loaded now.

      • Bob Greenyer

        He had more dead volume – with areas that were below boiling point of water

        2H + O (from dead volume) >>>> H2O, condenses in manometer and it’s feed pipe – creates lower pressure.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Will post a screen grab soon.

  • timycelyn

    I can’t get a complete impression of the rate of pressure fall with only these high resolution pressure charts. Would it be possible to get a screen grab for a smaller scale graph covering (say) the last four hours?

    My suspicion is that it will be clear looking at that, that we will not get down to PArkhomov type pressures for reasons already discussed in the time avaialble.

    In which case, I’d recommend ramping up the temperature to get to 1200C+ external, once it had been cooked at the 850C intermediate temperature as long as Parkhomov’s reactor was.

    • Sanjeev

      The shared folder has some 24 hour range graphs of pressure. It matches (in shape) to Parkhomov’s.

      • timycelyn

        Thanks. Is that the screengrabs folder Bob has put up, linked above? I’ve looked in there and though there are some general 24 hr things, I’m looking for something up to date covering the last 4-5 hrs. I’m just trying to get a feel for the rate at which this pressure fall is levelling out at.

        We seem to be down to 7-8 psi/hr now, but that’s going to continue decreasing.

        I’m not sure what impact raising the temperature would have on this – Temperature pressure rise vs accelerated rate of uptake into the metal?

        • Sanjeev

          Yes, the rate slowed down to 4psi/hr I guess. The temperature rise should increase the pressure further, but the absorption may also increase. Can’t say.

    • Ged

      We may just have a higher baseline than Parkhomov had due to volume and load amount differences, and the nickel could be pretty much fully loaded now.

      • Bob Greenyer

        He had more dead volume – with areas that were below boiling point of water

        2H + O (from dead volume) >>>> H2O, condenses in manometer and it’s feed pipe – creates lower pressure.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Will post a screen grab soon.

  • timycelyn

    Listening in to the discussion about the next temperature ramp and the boiling point of lithium, to comments I would like to make:

    1. The boiling point of the metal will not be affected by the pressure of the rest of the components in the system – merely by the partial pressure of the lithium vapour above the liquid. (ie pull a vacuum and it will boil lower, seal it up and generate a high partial pressure and it will boil higher.)

    2. I question whether the boiling point has to be reached in any event. At temperatures getting towards a materials boiling point there is plenty of vapourisation – ie evaporation or sublimation – anyway. It’s just not quite as fast or dramatic as boiling. In a small vessel like this I’m sure the lithium will be well transported around it even if the notional boiling point is not reached.

  • Ged
  • Ged
  • @bobgreenyer:disqus
    Is it possible to show the psi numbers again as a part of the stream window?
    It seems to get interesting now.

  • @bobgreenyer:disqus
    Is it possible to show the psi numbers again as a part of the stream window?
    It seems to get interesting now.

  • Monty

    Is it my crooked vision or is the pressure declining faster now?

  • Bob Greenyer
    • pelgrim108

      Bob, can you change the colorsceme gradient to have more resolution/ recognizebility in the 850 – 900 C range?

      • Bob Greenyer

        I will try

  • artefact

    If there was some iron inside they could stirr the fuel with a magnet to probably speed things up.

    • Ged

      Interesting idea, artefact. Could indeed be an important component in optimizing reactors.

      • artefact

        It is maybe why there were relative huge flakes of iron in Rossis fuel – from the production of the fuel bevor it was inserted into the reactor.

    • Ecco
      • artefact

        thanks

        • Ecco

          That might still work for low-temperature variants, though.

          • Axil Axil

            When excess heat begins to be produced by the LENR reaction, we should expect that the dust(AKA nanoparticles) that had previously formed should begin to vaporize and then recondense in a cycle as the reaction takes hold within and among that dust.

    • MWerner

      Nickel is quite magnetic, probably don’t need iron for magnetic stirring.

  • Bob Greenyer
    • pelgrim108

      Bob, can you change the colorsceme gradient to have more resolution/ recognizebility in the 850 – 900 C range?

      • Bob Greenyer

        I will try

  • artefact

    If there was some iron inside they could stirr the fuel with a magnet to probably speed things up.

    • Ged

      Interesting idea, artefact. Could indeed be an important component in optimizing reactors.

      • artefact

        It is maybe why there were relative huge flakes of iron in Rossis fuel – from the production of the fuel befor it was inserted into the reactor.
        The molten Lithium could also be distributed evenly on all the Nickel particles and in vapor phase every nickel particle would get an equal amount of Lithium vapor on or into it.

    • MWerner

      Nickel is quite magnetic, probably don’t need iron for magnetic stirring.

  • Sanjeev

    The Parkhomov Ni is amazing, it brought down the pressure from 300 to 30 and still absorbing. I was not expecting that.

    • Axil Axil

      The assumption that hydrogen is being absorbed in the nickel is not born out by the ash assay in the Lagano report. Very little if any hydrogen is found in the Lagano nickel particles.

      What is more likely, a solid crystalline dust could be forming in a cold plasma. This state is called a cold dusty plasma.

      • Mats002

        …and a cold dusty plasma would lower the pressure?

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Probably yes. Such clusters of hydrogen have been detected by Santilli. Lowering the number of particles in the system would lower the pressure.

        • Axil Axil

          The dust would find its way onto the surface of the nickel particle but would not penetrate into the nickel. Condinsation of a gas to a solid will reduce gas pressure.. This solid is nanoparticles or Rydberg matter. Like palladium, surface cracking marks any hydride formation on the nickel particles. In the Lagano ash the tubercles look unaffected by cranking.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_hydride

          Hot nickel releases any small amounts of hydrogen from its surface.

          • Mats002

            The near-stoichiometric NiH is unstable and loses hydrogen at pressures below 340 MPa.
            350 MPa = 50000 psi
            We are far from that pressure!?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I’m pretty sure that there is no near-stoichiometric Ni-H, since it forms only at very high pressures, as you indicate.

          • Da Phys

            Beta-NiH can also form at low pressure but other conditions are required. One of them is many voids and cracks.

      • Sanjeev

        I guess you are joking 😀
        Edit – Oh no! there is really such a thing, cold dusty plasma,

        • Axil Axil

          It sounds like you have some strongly held unproven assumptions about the chemical processes going on inside the reactor.

          • Sanjeev

            No. Let the experiment and ash analysis decide. Why assume something when you can know.

          • Axil Axil

            The ash analysis was done for the Lagano experiment.

          • Sanjeev

            Lets repeat and reproduce, till no doubt remains. One analysis is not enough.

          • Axil Axil

            One important function of this site is education. Unfounded assumptions should not be promulgated in the face of existing contributory experimental results, Withhold opinion until all doubt is removed.

          • Sanjeev

            Yes, I agree.

          • MWerner

            Is it not possible that Hydrogen is not found in the ash analysis, because it all “evaporates” away soon after the ash is removed from the reactor? (de-absorbes:-)

          • Sanjeev

            There are many possibilities. Of course, one of them is that Hydrogen fuses with Li or Ni, so nothing to be found in ash. I’m sure there are many people who will disagree. The bottom line is, more experiments will be needed, that can be openly and reliably reproduced on demand, to conclude anything.

      • Bob Matulis

        Love this dialogue – I am learning a lot!

      • Da Phys

        Interesting. Do you call into question the absorption of H in Ni, and D in Pd, as assumed by many (most…) LENR researchers? Many believe that a high absorption is a prerequisite for LENR.

  • Bob Greenyer

    This is exactly what it looks like to the human eye now

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz7lTfqkED9WZC1XaGQ5ZHI1SlE/view?usp=sharing

    • Stephen

      Wow that looks great! Exactly the same colour as your logo 🙂

      • Mats002

        Just as I thought: MFMP have been knowing the outcome all the time. Bob&Co are playing around until the choosen moment when it all *works*!
        Just kidding.

    • Ged

      Rather pretty looking. Can tell that’s a lot of heat.

  • Bob Greenyer

    This is exactly what it looks like to the human eye now

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz7lTfqkED9WZC1XaGQ5ZHI1SlE/view?usp=sharing

    • Arnaud

      It seems the right side is warmer than the left side.

    • Stephen

      Wow that looks great! Exactly the same colour as your logo 🙂

      • Mats002

        Just as I thought: MFMP have been knowing the outcome all the time. Bob&Co are playing around until the choosen moment when it all *works*!
        Just kidding.

    • Da Phys

      The New Fire !!

      • …. in an old fireplace. Nice touch, MFMP!

    • Ged

      Rather pretty looking. Can tell that’s a lot of heat.

  • Axil Axil

    The filter would not remove the sharp power spikes that produce magnetically induced shock waves in the hydrogen.

  • Ecco

    Source?

    • Mats002

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_hydride
      See chapter ‘high pressure phases’

    • artefact

      I have missed what they want to do with the reactor now. I think Bob wants to take it with him. Do they take the fuel out or do they start it again what I would strongly suggest?

      • Obvious

        Auction it.

        • Obvious

          Run it at least 4 more times. See what it can take. If it survives that, it is a winner for a test bed design.

          • Obvious

            Then auction it.

          • artefact

            That sounds better 🙂

          • Gerrit

            precious reactorses

  • Axil Axil

    The unit looks like it is flickering in the intensity of the light it is producing. Some purple appears to form at the edges of the tube in a cycle. Am I seeing thinks? Is that flickering a result of automated temperature control? The outside temperature is also flickering.

    • Obvious

      I think that is the temperature controller partly, then the camera adjusts, making it look more pulsing than it is.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Listen to the clicks of the relay when you observe the image.

    • US_Citizen71

      It is caused by the power cycling the kanthal gives off visible light like a light bulb filament. The alumina lets the light shine through. The webcam has a characteristic of displaying near visible infrared as white as well so the effect is magnified on the stream.

  • Sanjeev

    Somebody on youtube said this:
    Андрей М
    max pressure about 305psi, min pressure 30psi. 305/30 = 10.12
    parhomov max pressure 5 bar=72.52psi, min pressure 0.5bar=7.25psi
    72.52/7.25=10

    • So the pressure ratio fits already. Now we need the correct temperature.

      • Sanjeev

        Pressure in AP experiment came back to 1 bar at higher temperatures, we see the same happening here, the pressure is rising a bit, not dropping.

        • Ged

          Indeed, seems we are now good to launch.

  • Sanjeev

    Somebody on youtube said this:
    Андрей М
    max pressure about 305psi, min pressure 30psi. 305/30 = 10.12
    parhomov max pressure 5 bar=72.52psi, min pressure 0.5bar=7.25psi
    72.52/7.25=10

    • So the pressure ratio fits already. Now we need the correct temperature.

      • Sanjeev

        Pressure in AP experiment came back to 1 bar at higher temperatures, we see the same happening here, the pressure is rising a bit, not dropping.

        • Ged

          Indeed, seems we are now good to launch.

    • Mariusz

      so maybe its not possible to see 0.5 bar here

  • Axil Axil

    When excess heat begins to be produced by the LENR reaction, we should expect that the dust(AKA nanoparticles) that had previously formed should begin to vaporize and then recondense in a cycle as the reaction takes hold within and among that dust.

  • Is it possible to see the input power?

  • Is it possible to see the input power?

  • Andreas Moraitis

    I’m pretty sure that there is no near-stoichiometric Ni-H, since it forms only at very high pressures, as you indicate.

  • @bobgreenyer:disqus
    Are you using a wired internet connection? If not, please try to use an ethernet cable instead wireless LAN to get better bandwidth and stable performance.

  • @bobgreenyer:disqus
    Are you using a wired internet connection? If not, please try to use an ethernet cable instead wireless LAN to get better bandwidth and more stable performance.

    Maybe you can do this change when you have to switch to part 5 of the stream 😉

  • US_Citizen71

    @MFMP For calibration of the ‘GlowStick’ heater have you run a blank core with a thermocouple in the middle of the core? If not it would be a simple test. The thermocouple leads could be run through an alumina rod with double holes and the end sealed with epoxy. A rod can be put in first and a load of nickel powder as well. Making the blank as close as possible with the exception of pressure to a fueled run. To me that would give the best baseline of what temperature the core is experiencing compared with the IR camera temperature value.

    edit: I think I may have finally found the data at http://bit.ly/1IbuTsQ
    I believe the temperature data is in the file labeled GS2_Cal1_all.csv, I wish I could give an exact link but Google Drive prevents this.

    • Ged

      They have. It was done before Alain’s test, it’s how they know what the internal should be given the external.

      Edit: some info here http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/mfmp-blog/477-glowstick#!Cal_710w_720C

      • US_Citizen71

        They should put that in the screen capture folder.

        • Ged

          That would be convenient!

      • US_Citizen71

        As far I can tell they didn’t do a calibration run with a thermocouple sealed inside a dummy. It appears all cores were sealed with a swageloc, can’t run wires through one of those.

        • Obvious

          Rossi’s TC (protection tube) must be pretty hard core.

          • US_Citizen71

            I would think it would have to be to survive and protect the leads for months at a time.

            I’m not asking for MFMP to come up with a method to have a TC inside during fueled runs. What I would like them to do is show experimentally what the temperature inside the core is when the temperature is shown to be X on the outside by the IR camera or what ever method they decide to use to measure the outside temperature. Page 4 http://www.coorstek.com/resource-library/library/8510-1031_tubes_rods.pdf lists alumina rods with double holes running the length of the rod that have an outer diameter as small as 1.6mm. I would think that an appropriate sized rod would allow a TC to be placed on the tip and allow the leads a way out of a dummy/blank reactor. It would then just be a matter of heating the dummy up by 50 degree C increments as seen by the external measuring device, letting it settle and recording the temperature reported by the TC. That way they could develop a data table showing what the internal temperature should be when X is reported on the outside. As far as I can tell they haven’t done this and are using a calculation to determine what the internal temperature should be, which might be completely valid. But, they don’t ever show their calculation and a data table with experimental data would be far easier for the casual observer to understand than an equation.

            edit: I think I may have finally found the data at http://bit.ly/1IbuTsQ
            I believe the temperature data is in the file labeled GS2_Cal1_all.csv, I wish I could give an exact link but Google Drive prevents this.

          • Obvious

            That’s the inside data. Of course from only one run.. probably enough to get an idea of what happens inside anyways.
            Here are molten lithium-aluminum proof TC protection.

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/04/02/e-cat-world-collaborative-project-proposal-to-create-instruction-document-on-how-to-replicate-parkhomov/#comment-1954147081

  • @bobgreenyer:disqus
    At LENR Forum a user called “Winthrop Williams” made an offer to you to make SEM analysis and more. He’s working at U. C. Berkeley in California:

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1404-MFMP-will-try-to-make-another-attempt-in-Padua-ICCF19/?postID=4060#post4060

  • @bobgreenyer:disqus
    At LENR Forum a user called “Winthrop Williams” made an offer to you to make SEM analysis and more. He’s working at U. C. Berkeley in California:

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1404-MFMP-will-try-to-make-another-attempt-in-Padua-ICCF19/?postID=4060#post4060

  • Jarea1

    Inner core 1300 grades and no excess heat 🙁

    • Where do you see the input power to conclude that there is no excess heat?

      • Jarea1

        I have seen this info from the MFMP facebook website from Alan Goldwater

      • Bob Greenyer

        2: is “outside core where 900 represents 1250ºC in the core based on calibrations.

  • Jarea

    Inner core 1300 grades and no excess heat 🙁
    Power input is about 850 watts,

    • Where do you see the input power to conclude that there is no excess heat?

      • Jarea

        I have seen this info in the MFMP facebook website from Alan Goldwater

  • lars

    can someone explain what is shown in the 4 different pictures in the livestream, thanks

  • lars

    can someone explain what is shown in the 4 different pictures in the livestream, thanks

    • John

      1-Left above is the reactor as seeing by normal ccd camera.
      2-Right side above all is the reactor as seeing by thermal camera and inner and outside temperatures, at this moment is 790ºC inside and 940ºc outside
      3-Left-The blue line you see is the pressure that at this moment 10:54pm is still going down
      4-And on the right you see the power electricity quality meter Vip Sys.3 measuring the electric wave
      This is my interpretation of what i see right now.

      • Bob Greenyer

        2: is “outside core where 900 represents 1250ºC in the core based on calibrations.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    For future experiments: Would it make sense to use the pressure as the main control parameter for the heater? By reducing the input of the heater, and thus the temperature, the pressure could be lowered if it exceeds a certain limit. I am not sure if that would work without problems, but if so, one could save a lot of time.

    • Bob Greenyer

      a great idea

  • Andreas Moraitis

    For future experiments: Would it make sense to use the pressure as the main control parameter for the heater? By reducing the input of the heater, and thus the temperature, the pressure could be lowered if it exceeds a certain limit. I am not sure if that would work without problems, but if so, one could save a lot of time.

    • Bob Greenyer

      a great idea

      • MWerner

        Gut reaction says run PID on temperature as today. Wrap that in another control loop that limits the temperature setpoint as long pressure is above TBD psi.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Good idea – again

  • Mats002

    Family time now over. What’s up guys? 🙂

    • Bob Greenyer

      I hop you got the swedish summary!

      • Mats002

        Nope, give me the english please!

  • Mats002

    Family time now over. What’s up guys? 🙂

    • Bob Greenyer

      I hop you got the swedish summary!

      • Mats002

        Nope, give me the english please!

  • Axil Axil

    The secret to Parkhomov sucess may be a hydrogen leak. The production of nanoparticles may need a lower pressure than this test is capable of providing. When the experimenters decide that the test is a failure and plan to terminate. As a last act, reduce the pressure to 1 bar by venting the hydrogen, and continue to operated for as time: say a hour. The pressure will continue to fall below one bar, The reaction may start based on the lower pressure. At that point in the test there is nothing to lose by venting hydrogen.

    • Mats002

      Did you just say: the cake is ready, you can bring it out from the oven?

    • Bob Greenyer

      This experiment is “baking a cake” – we have an oven, we have the correct ingredients and a process.

      We then have a number of people to test the ash.

      • Ged

        Well, yet another drop in pressure, and the core surface is slowly getting a tad hotter than the heater surface even in the same temperature range; so the process is definitely still going strong.

  • Axil Axil

    The secret to Parkhomov sucess may be a hydrogen leak. The production of nanoparticles may need a lower pressure than this test is capable of providing. When the experimenters decide that the test is a failure and plan to terminate. As a last act, reduce the pressure to 1 bar by venting the hydrogen, and continue to operate for as time: say a hour. The pressure will continue to fall below one bar, The reaction may start based on the lower pressure. At that point in the test there is nothing to lose by venting hydrogen.

    • Mats002

      Did you just say: the cake is ready, you can bring it out from the oven?

    • Bob Greenyer

      This experiment is “baking a cake” – we have an oven, we have the correct ingredients and a process.

      We then have a number of people to test the ash.

      • Ged

        Well, yet another drop in pressure, and the core surface is slowly getting a tad hotter than the heater surface even in the same temperature range; so the process is definitely still going strong.

  • Potential cake recipe =

    *50% nickel powder, 10% lithium aluminum hydride, 30% iron powder, and 10% carbon powder*

  • Potential cake recipe =

    *50% nickel powder, 10% lithium aluminum hydride, 30% iron powder, and 10% carbon powder*

  • Ged
  • Ged
  • Ged

    Found a reference for the melting point of Nickel Hydride, for Ecco: http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=9ffa881600184b2fb93474b82d23d3fd .

  • Daniel Maris

    So no excess heat?

    • Ged

      Dunno, have to integrate the power in as it is not static. Haven’t seen anyone do that yet.

  • Axil Axil

    The picture of the bone and the power reading doesn’t look like they are in sync. Sometimes, the bone brightens when the power is 0

    • SG

      Are you referring to the pulsating of the brightness effect? I believe it was stated before that that is the regular camera (not the infrared camera) that is attempting to adjust, and is not representative of how it actually appears.

  • Axil Axil

    The picture of the bone and the power reading doesn’t look like they are in sync. Sometimes, the bone brightens when the power is 0

    • SG

      Are you referring to the pulsating of the brightness effect? I believe it was stated before that that is the regular camera (not the infrared camera) that is attempting to adjust, and is not representative of how it actually appears.

  • ecatworld

    A picture taken during a period when the power to the reactor was turned off. The time the power was off was less than half a minute, I think. Could the light showing in the crack where fuel is located indicate a hotspot?

    • Bob Matulis

      I am looking at the live feed and as best I can tell the temperature is holding steady. How long has the power been off? Or did they turn it back on?

      • ecatworld

        The power-off periods (three of them so far) have been very short. Less than a minute each. They turn off the power until the heat drops to a specified temperature, and the put it back on again. Power is on right now.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Peel the extra mass off the rest of the bone and it will all read hotter having less surface to radiate heat away.

      • Obvious

        Then the coils would be exposed.

        • Ophelia Rump

          I was speaking hypothetically to demonstrate a concept.
          Alternatively make the hot spot equally thick and it will appear the same.

          • Obvious

            I actually suggested that they eliminate the gap a couple of times. Just put a small notch in each of the two outer pieces to let the TC wire out, and fill the small hole with alumina cement after butting them up… But it’s their deal.

          • Is the geiger counter since the last temperature increase going to make more clicks?
            For a while it was completely silent, now it’s clicking multiple times per second…

          • dickyaesta

            Why seems the light brighter on the right side of the tube compared to the left (left image 08:26 part 5), whereas it seems the infrared camera doesn’t register a difference, Can this be an indication of anything?Maybe getting more brittle or breaking up soon.
            Saludos from a not sunny northern Spain.

  • Frank Acland

    A picture taken during a period when the power to the reactor was turned off. The time the power was off was less than half a minute, I think. Could the light showing in the crack where fuel is located indicate a hotspot?

    • Bob Matulis

      I am looking at the live feed and as best I can tell the temperature is holding steady. How long has the power been off? Or did they turn it back on?

      • Frank Acland

        The power-off periods (three of them so far) have been very short. Less than a minute each. They turn off the power until the heat drops to a specified temperature, and the put it back on again. Power is on right now.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Peel the extra mass off the rest of the bone and it will all read hotter having less surface to radiate heat away.

      • Obvious

        Then the coils would be exposed.

        • Ophelia Rump

          I was speaking hypothetically to demonstrate a concept.
          Alternatively make the hot spot equally thick and it will appear the same.

          I prefer the current design because it has a deliberate weak spot. I expect this reactor would melt through or crack there and sputter out, rather than burst into a lot of little hot fragments showering the room.

          • Obvious

            I actually suggested that they eliminate the gap a couple of times. Just put a small notch in each of the two outer pieces to let the TC wire out, and fill the small hole with alumina cement after butting them up… But it’s their deal.

  • ecatworld

    This picture was taken during a power-off period that went from 1027ºC to 790ºC – this was taken at 790ºC

  • Frank Acland

    This picture was taken during a power-off period that went from 1027ºC to 790ºC – this was taken at 790ºC

  • Ophelia Rump

    Am I misreading the meaning of the lines crossing then diverging?
    It seems to me that the power requirement dropped while the heat has increased, that is not something you expect from a linear relationship. It seems like a strong indicator of excess heat to me.

    Have I missed something important here?

    Well at the risk of sounding foolish, congratulations on your successful LENR reactor!

    • The purple line is pressure and the light blue line seems to be temperature.
      So no indication for excess heat…unfortunateley.

      Unfortunately we don’t see a input power curve, so WE can’t make any conclusions.
      Only in the way the temperature would rise suddenly to a runaway.

      The heater elements are turned on and off in very short periods. The intervall-time is controling the average temperature of the reactor.
      Due to this “on-off-switching” we don’t have the exact timings of each periods to calculate the used power.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Thank you Barty. If these tests are demonstrating anything it is that it seems to be far easier to build a LENR reactor than it is to prove how much energy you get out of one. This is something quite remarkable, I enjoy looking in on these magnificent adventures. It is like springtime and we are looking for the first few flowers to bloom. Soon there will be profusion.

  • Is the geiger counter since the last temperature increase going to make more clicks?
    For a while it was completely silent, now it’s clicking multiple times per second…

  • Stephen

    Wouldn’t it be amazing if we could have a light spectrum sensor, UV detector, X-ray detector in the core we could then see if and what kind of ionization and reccombinations are occurring and at what rate. Do such sensors exist that can be put there?

  • Stephen

    Wouldn’t it be amazing if we could have a light spectrum sensor, UV detector, X-ray detector in the core we could then see if and what kind of ionization and reccombinations are occurring and at what rate. Do such sensors exist that can be put there?

  • Stephen

    Is the RF being monitored and checked?

  • Stephen

    Is the RF being monitored and checked?

  • Stephen

    Looks like the core temp is catching up. Is this correct?

    • Axil Axil

      Is the core temperature 1330 and the outside temperature 1020? I that the correct way to read those temperatures.?

      • Stephen

        At one point they seemed to converge very closely but the they diverged again.

      • Ged

        Yep, you read that completely right. Well, the 1330 was the outside of the core detected in that gap between heater shields which allows the core to be seen, while the 1020 was the outside of the heater shields (including the hotspot of the core though, since it was integrated across the entire glowstick).

  • Stephen

    Looks like the core temp is catching up. Is this correct?

    • Axil Axil

      Is the core temperature 1330 and the outside temperature 1020? I that the correct way to read those temperatures.?

      • Stephen

        At one point they seemed to converge very closely but the they diverged again.

      • Ged

        Yep, you read that completely right. Well, the 1330 was the outside of the core detected in that gap between heater shields which allows the core to be seen, while the 1020 was the outside of the heater shields (including the hotspot of the core though, since it was integrated across the entire glowstick).

  • Axil Axil

    I understand that a falling pressure indicates a weak or non existent reaction because the solids in the core are not vaporizing but building instead. When the temperature of the core got up to 1300 then the pressure began to rise as the solids vaporized marking the onset of a active reaction. 1300 looks like the magic number for reason start.

  • Axil Axil

    I understand that a falling pressure indicates a weak or non existent reaction because the solids in the core are not vaporizing but building instead. When the temperature of the core got up to 1300 then the pressure began to rise as the solids vaporized marking the onset of a active reaction. 1300 looks like the magic number for reason start.

  • dickyaesta

    Why seems the light brighter on the right side of the tube compared to the left (left image 08:26 part 5), whereas it seems the infrared camera doesn’t register a difference, Can this be an indication of anything?Maybe getting more brittle or breaking up soon.
    Saludos from a not sunny northern Spain.

  • Axil Axil

    The constant oscillation of the pressure reading might indicate a constant creation and destruction of solid particles derived from the gas envelope in the core.

  • Axil Axil

    The constant oscillation of the pressure reading might indicate a constant creation and destruction of solid particles derived from the gas envelope in the core.

  • Josh G

    I was unfortunately too busy to follow this closely. From what I could gather, there was no obvious evidence of both excess heat and heat after death, but there were gamma emissions early on that faded away but then came back as they were powering down? Is that correct? Could someone please offer a brief summary of what we know at this point about the experiment?

    • Obvious

      Was there gammas when cooling down?

      • Stephen

        Would they have a way to define the gamma frequencies of the different gamma bursts? Or only the counts?

        • Obvious

          Need a spectrometer for that. Portable ones are available. The ones I have used have a range from ~1 to 3000 keV., with 1024 channels.

  • Josh G

    I was unfortunately too busy to follow this closely. From what I could gather, there was no obvious evidence of both excess heat and heat after death, but there were gamma emissions early on that faded away but then came back as they were powering down? Is that correct? Could someone please offer a brief summary of what we know at this point about the experiment?

    • Obvious

      Was there gammas when cooling down?

      • Stephen

        Would they have a way to define the gamma frequencies of the different gamma bursts? Or only the counts?

        • Obvious

          Need a spectrometer for that. Portable ones are available. The ones I have used have a range from ~1 to 3000 keV., with 1024 channels.

  • Svein Arild Utne

    So what can we conclude from this run?

    • Obvious

      More work needed. Missing variable(s) of some sort to get XH.
      Glowstick seems like it is pretty tough.
      Should test Parkhomov LAH for composition.
      Should test Parkhomov tube compositon.

      • artefact

        change the PID to one that can keep temperature more stable.

        • Obvious

          Use Li(Na0.1, Ga0.5,Al0.4)H4

    • tom15

      Doesn’t matter what is attempted to replicate, MFMP shows, that is is not real.

      But positive thinking, it shows which ways are not viable. Donate!

  • Svein Arild Utne

    So what can we conclude from this run?

    • Obvious

      More work needed. Missing variable(s) of some sort to get XH.
      Glowstick seems like it is pretty tough.
      Should test Parkhomov LAH for composition.
      Should test Parkhomov tube composition.

      • artefact

        change the PID to one that can keep temperature more stable.

        • Obvious

          Use Li(Na0.1,Ga0.5,Al0.4)H4

    • tom15

      Doesn’t matter what is attempted to replicate, MFMP shows, that is is not real.

      But positive thinking, it shows which ways are not viable. Donate!

  • Svein Arild Utne

    Do we need to boil Lithsium. If so we can go high in temp or low in pressure. High in temp is hard for the equipment, so maybe it is better to go for low pressure. If the chemicals are mixed perfect there will always be some left that will boil at a lower temp and give high pressure. Maybe it is possible to heat till 1300 degrees, and then went out the gas and maybe use some pump to get below atmospheric pressure, so the lithsium will start to boil at a more freindly temp?