Parkhomov-style LENR Test by Me356 — Update#6: New Live Test, Sunday June 14

Thanks to Pelgrim for finding this live experiment of a Parkhomov-like reactor taking place today (Saturday May 9th) being run by ‘Me356’ — not sure where this is taking place.

At this link: you can see live streaming data, along with photos that are taken every minute. There’s a live chat session taking place here. Me356 has provided background information about his reactor design on this thread on the LENR-Forum.

The experiment started at 11:00 a.m. UTC and I suppose could go on all day, or longer.

Here’s a photo of the setup:


UPDATE: Me356 has stopped the test saying he needed to check on some software, and will restart the test in a few days.

UPDATE #2Me356 has posted some conclusions about the test on this thread on the LENR-Forum.

In one comment he states:

For me and others it seemed like the process was about to start many times. But PID controller always gradually halted the power (to maintain setpoint) so this process stopped always suddenly too.
This findings leads me to the sotware improvement.
For next test I have implemented manual power control so the PID will not halt possible process. This could be very important to maintain excess heat.

UPDATE #3 (May 12, 2015)

The experiment has been restarted today.

UPDATE #4 (May 23, 2015)

Thanks to Mats002 for the notice that Me356 has started a new fueled test today. Below is the data feed. The orange trace it current, the green trace is the set point, and the blue line is the reactor temperature.

Reactor Live Data

Photos are taken every 1 minute and you can see them here: I notice in the photo that there seems to be a pressure gauge, but I don’t see pressure reflected in the live chart.

There is a chat session taking place at the LENR-Forum here:

UPDATE #5 (May 23, 2015)

Me356 has posted on the LENR-Forum:

“Experiment ended with 1200°C and probably no excess heat.

Heater failed.
Moreover it seems there was a leak”.

Another update from Me356:

OK, reactor is in bad condition now.

It seems that it produced extremely high temperature. Maybe due to local overheating?
But maybe there was excess heat. I suspect that this temperature was far beyond 1400°C, thus heater failure must happen.

For me it seems that the fuel container or nickel was so hot that it
melted ceramic tube from inside and then damaged whole reactor.

So this “bubble” on the bottom may be Nickel or melted kanthal or alumina sealing.
It was so hot that even stainless steel cover was partially melted.

A photo of the failed reactor via the MFMP Facebook page:


UPDATE #6 M(Jun 14, 2015) me356 has started a new live fueled test today:

Chat is available at LENR Forum here.

Here’s a plotly data feed:

Reactor Live Data

Good luck to Me356 — and thanks for sharing your experiment!

Here’s a video feed from the MFMP with composite data and comments:

  • Ged

    Exciting to see another replicator! All the best of luck to you, Me365, in having a fruitful and data filled run.

  • ecatworld

    I have embedded the live graph above.

    • artefact

      that is nice.

  • LuFong

    Anybody know what fuel Me365 is using? I’ve looked quickly and haven’t found anything. I know he is trying to duplicate Parkhomov as closely as possible which is very good IMO.

    • pelgrim108

      Ni + LiAlH4
      640 mg Ni + 60 mg LiAlH4 Parkhomov style. Own supply
      used mortar so particles of LiAlH4 are “positioned” equally in Nickel.

      • LuFong

        I hope it’s nearly identical (including grinding it). The fuel may be one of the keys.

        • parallelB

          Looks like the control loop could do with a third term (integral) to remove the reactor offset
          from the set point. Not really necessary and the result wouldn’t be as exciting to watch.

    • Private Citizen


      Follow the link to “reactor parameters”

      Excellent group discussion on design issues

      • LuFong

        Thanks. I scanned the 6 page so of comments and didn’t see anything specific (I may be missed it).

        • Private Citizen

          Somewhere i remember him saying the fuel cost 24 cents, less than a gram of nickel in there in my understanding, plus that nasty lithium aluminum hydrate

  • Daniel Maris

    So the “setpoint” – is that some kind of automated thermostatically-controlled path for the temperature rise?

    • pelgrim108

      Yes. He uses Arduino and Raspberry Pi and some other stuff for regulating the heater.

      • Daniel Maris


      • Sanjeev

        They have HUGnet, for streaming live data.

        • Timar

          Yes, but why haven’t they used it in their last tests? Those plots packed into video streams were really undecipherable.

          • Sanjeev

            I guess the streaming works only from their HUG lab, not from everywhere.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I suggested a few years back to the team – but it was just starting out – much more capable now – also google plotting is good. Will look into it. HUGNet is really powerful for looking at block data and following trends across all parameters.

            I hope there will be many leaps in the development of Live Open Science and everyone needs to bring ease of access to the crowd.

          • Sanjeev

            Ya, plotly seems to be a good alternative when hugnet is not available for streaming. I like how the tech and LOS are going hand in hand, this was not imaginable a few years ago.

          • Bob Greenyer

            These are great days

          • mcloki

            A little play by play for the non scientist. We see the evidence for a higher temperature than set point. Does this mean anything? Could there be other reasons for this? Pure neophyte, but real interested.

          • Ged

            Have to irgnore that PID set point, as he’s controling manually through the variac right now, it’s been reported.

          • Alan Goldwater

            The loss of resolution apparently happens in the transfer from Manycam to the Google+/Youtube video stream. I might be able to stream HUGnet directly from my server but it will require some support from HUG (Hunt Utilities Group) that may not be available for a while.

            The host end of HUGnet is very powerful, supporting dozens or hundreds of data collection clients distributed across a VPN, so it may be overkill for this kind of application.

  • Private Citizen

    Presentation is great.
    Easy to read data;
    questions answered instantly in chat.
    5 stars for open science!

    • pelgrim108

      5 stars from me too.

  • Gerard McEk

    It looks great this real time data streaming. From conversations in the past I understood that a heat-up test without fuel was done. Is that data available? Thanks Me365!

    • LuFong
      • Sergiu

        As much as I would love to see positive results, I have the feeling this will be just another failed one. In my opinion, there is one crucial part that is missing from all those experiments: playing with frequency and instant power once critical temperature has been reached. For example, knowing that reaction takes place between 900-1200 degrees, one should get the reactor to 1050 degrees then apply a constant amount of energy/s but vary the frequency from the lower to the higher point that the source can supply and also vary the shape and width of the active cycle. A very narrow active cycle would mean applying a huge amount of power for a very short time which could be in the range of micro-nano seconds.

        It could very well be discovered that almost every fuel produces some kind of the reaction under specific temperature ranges ranges and specific high power, very high frequency pulses. Here Rossi has a huge advantage with his 1MW plant as he can probably test concurrently different frequencies in some of the more “idle” reactors without impacting the total average output.

        • Andrew

          I think that Rossi has already figured this stuff out way back when I was playing with the NI controllers.

      • You can also login with existing twitter, facebook or google account if you have one.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      I guess it’s this one:

      Unfortunately, there is only data up to 750C.

      • pelgrim108

        He doesnt plan to go higher temps than 750C. Like Parkhomov.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Well, if he could maintain that temperature with less input power than in the blank run it would be ok. We might also see some HAD in case that a reaction occurs.

    • me365 is reflashing the firmware of the PID now, so the live data stream will be offline for a few minutes

      • It’s back after he had some issues. Now back at 400C.

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    Onion Architecture and LENR (Axil Axil) let’s get some automation in control of our experiments! Some predictive control based on past data point, thermal models, etc! Note the modern body temperature device just measures a few points to predict Result! Should we get some adaptive horizon control & protection people involved?

    • Mats002

      Yes, but first I think we need a positive outcome with excess heat with a ‘standard’ built device as a reference for that automation. At this moment I only know of Parkhomov run, and his device have not been reproduced in detail yet. Brian might got some excess heat with his device, not ‘standard’, if me356 get success heat tonight that is another device in terms of actionable parameters.
      We need to select one (1) ‘standard’ device and hold on to that and then automate the procedure of getting it a) give clear excess heat and b) experiment with the parameters
      As a group we can achive alot but only if we use exactly the same device (we can use the same specs for building it).

  • Chris the 2nd

    Something “interesting” happening, current & temperature have just decoupled

    • ecatworld

      seemed so at about 20:59 — then the temp fell

    • You can enter the chat room at LENR Forum. Me365 is online there and is talking about what he’s doing.
      He just tried a first SSM cycle. But 750C seems to be to low.

      • Chris the 2nd

        already in there, “zacnaloen”

  • Daniel Maris

    Me365 says they have performed many tests. Given the confidence of their statement on the LENR Forum

    “Interesting things may happen around 19:00 UTC but at 22:00 they should happen.”

    Sounds like they have seen excess heat before….

    Interesting indeed!

    • ecatworld

      At 22:00 the temp was 844 C with 3.37 amps; At around 22:07 it was about 860 C with 3.37 amps

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Anyway, we have to consider the effect of thermal inertia. By the way, you can get a better resolution by choosing the „autoscale“ option.

  • Sanjeev

    SSM mode ! at 900C….

    • Bob Greenyer

      how do you work that out? – current staying the same?

      • Chris the 2nd

        Not happening yet, wants to hold at 900 until stabilised.

      • Sanjeev

        I mean, the set temp was held at 900C to see if the reactor temp stays there with a fall in current. It stayed for only 2-3 mins.

        • Sanjeev

          Now with power off, no ssm it seems.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Just a time constant artefact – really hoping though!

          • Obvious

            Maybe I won’t miss the best part after all.
            I suggest measuring the volts in the heating coil when the current is cut off.

    • Private Citizen

      This test moved open science fwd laudably at a minimum by its accessible presentation.

      So far, Cellini and Parkhomov have proven difficult to replicate in the open. At first we will have to look at what the replicators might have done wrong/differently and try again.

      Until open science replicates at will these experiments (am hopeful it will) or Rossi bursts on the scene with an openly testable commercial Mr. Fusion device, i for one will keep my powder dry (pun intended).

  • Sanjeev

    Current is not constant. Try the “autoscale” button.

  • artefact

    You can click the auto scale button on top of the graph (the one in the middle which looks like an X). Then you see the current in more detail and see the variations. Little change causes much change due to the steel reflector.

  • Bob Greenyer

    reaching critical temperatures now!

    • Ged

      Fun watching this beaut perform. Can’t tell yet if there’s signal or not though. Hopefully it’ll survive to 1200.

  • Daniel Maris

    Temperature going down now….any reason?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Combination of adjusting set point and apparatus time constant

      • Daniel Maris

        Thanks – up again.

        • Bob Greenyer

          1076ºC – critical temp – wise to be cautious at this stage

          • Ged

            Flirting with the threshold.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Might get DN – direct nitridation reaction, Aluminium and Nitrogen – forming Aluminium Nitride, strongly exothermic and self-sustaining

          • Bob Greenyer

            Current just dropped in time! haha

          • Ged

            This is how we do foreplay in science.

          • Bob Greenyer

            haha – next one after that is 1125-1135 – mmm

          • Daniel Maris

            Very steep rise?

          • Daniel Maris

            Followed by steep fall!

          • Gerard McEk

            It is good to be critical about the attempts of a Parkhomov-like replication as well as the Rossi replication Parkhomov claims. At this moment it its not opportune to question the work Dr. Parkhomov
            has done, otherwise we do the same to him as what was done to Pons and
            Fleischmann. The whole idea is that real and indisputable evidence is gathered of a LENR process by doing these replications. Until now not sufficient evidence was collected in my view and we should question why.
            It would be good if Dr. Parkhomov invited independent scientists like Bob Greenyer to witness and check his claims before and during an replication. All details should be noted such that an exact copy can be made, including the fuel, the heating coil dimensions, the triac controller, the reactor materials etc. In fact, it would be wonderful it Alexander would give Bob a complete assembled reactor to test it in the UK.
            I personally think that Rossi’s secret catalyser is the combination of the coil and the controller and I will continue to push for a sophisticated controller able to produce high pulsed currents at many different frequencies. The coil should be low impedance (not too many turns).

          • Josh G

            You are forgetting all the negative replication attempts Parkhomov made before his first successful one. The point is that just because the others failed doesn’t mean it’s impossible to get excess heat with a setup like this. It just takes time, experience and patience. Hopefully.

            You’re using the same logic that has always been used to dismiss the positive results of cold fusion experiments: if the results are not consistently reproducible, then the positive results must be errors or fraud. I’m sorry but that just doesn’t make sense. Keep in mind that none of these experiments have really been able to run long enough to produce excess heat. They keep breaking down too early or being shut off early for other reasons. Replicating experiments also takes skill, which needs to be developed. Whether or not you have the patience and perseverance to wait until MFMP and other replicators crack this nut is irrelevant, because they are not going to give up until they do.

            BTW Parkhomov is not the first time an obscure scientist came out of the woodwork with a claim like this. Les Case did so about 15 years ago with a gas NiH system. McKubre was able to replicate it, apparently. Unfortunately Les died before he was able to develop his prototype into a useful system. You can read about him on the ICCF histories that McKubre wrote that are on the ICCF-19 website.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Les Case talks about his palladium deuterium gas football (36:36 min). Did he also have a nickel-protium football?

          • Josh G

            Appears it wasn’t a simple Ni-H system, but he did help usher in the “gas-metal mode of CMNS.” Here is the description from history of ICCF7:

            “After similar pre-treatment in hydrogen gas Les introduced deuterium at a pressure of a few atmospheres to a bed of chemical hydrogenation catalyst consisting of “coconut shell charcoal” infiltrated with approximately 0.5% platinum group metals. This was confined in a 1.7 liter stainless steel vessel of World War II vintage. In a very narrow temperature range, 150-250°C, and with a few selected catalysts Les was able to produce a 5-35°C temperature rise in D2 compared with H2 gas. Phenomenal! And this was apparently not related to the difference in thermal conductivity between D2 and H2 gas (6). He also claimed anecdotally to have had a post-test D2 sample analyzed by mass spectrometry at Oak Ridge National Labs (ORNL) where they observed (from memory) ~100 ppm of helium-4. Since the concentration of helium-4 in room air is 5.22 ppm, if verified this finding was stunning. Furthermore the creation of 100 ppm of helium-4 in a 1.7 liter gas volume by any nuclear means implied the production of a very large amount of excess energy.

            “Obviously we were interested as were many in the audience and Les was “mobbed” after his report. In my summary at the end of the conference I cited Les’ paper as one of the most interesting presented. Although Fred Jaeger certainly merits this title for his hard work, vision and funding of ICCF7, I am going to break with tradition and nominate Les Case as the “hero of ICCF7.” Partly because he is gone and was, in my view, significantly under-regarded during his too brief cold fusion career. But also because Les Case (with Francesco Piantelli) ushered in the gas-metal mode of CMNS that is very different from the Fleischmann Pons Heat Effect (FPHE) of liquid phase D2O-metal heat generation. With considerable work and much time (and wine) spent with Les the SRI group was able to sensibly reproduce “the Case Effect.” Although never at the very high levels of temperature differential between D2 and H2 gas, or the extreme value of 4He production reported by Les at ICCF7, we obtained some of our most significant results studying the Case system, first without him (and failing) then with him (and succeeding), and then making progress on our own.”

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah, and although palladium is more expensive than nickel perhaps the Mitsubishi process could be used to transmute more abundant elements into palladium (see comment).

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Has anyone tried using palladium on carbon (Les
            Case’s catalyst) with lithium aluminum deuteride, LiAlD4, in a heated

          • clovis ray

            So many options, huh

          • Ged

            Sudden huge current swings, what.

          • Jonas Matuzas

            this is manual control

          • LuFong

            Looks like me356 is pulsing the current and it kills the temperature rise. He’s doing things too fast though as we don’t know what the steady state is.

          • Ged

            Aye. We need to get a good steady state. Good to know he is behind it and not equipment failure.

          • Daniel Maris

            I agree. Just keep doing it. If and when we have 100 consecutive failures, then we might fairly say the balance has swung to the sceptic side.

          • Thomas Clarke

            Science advances through objective analysis of results. It is no criticism of experimenters – and I agree the whole cold fusion thing with P&F – both the initial hype and the anti-hype after that – was unfortunate.

            Still – two wrongs don’t make a right. You cannot ignore looking carefully at a collection of results because of personal feelings about experimenters either way. In fact better to keep feelings about experimenters completely out of it.

          • Ted-X

            You may also try the toroidal (aka transformer concept) version, with the “tube” being circular and essentially a short-circuited secondary coil of a transformer. I think that you are on the right track. Pre-treatment of nickel (in the direction of BEC… cryogenic + compression) is also what I would recommend. BECs MIGHT be stable under conditions that we usually consider not suitable for the BEC state. Add a tunable capacitor to the coil to see the effects of different harmonics from the switching-off the current by the triac (variable capacitance; perhaps even changing the inductance by changing the number of coils).
            Pro Publico Bono.

          • Jonas Matuzas

            Can anybody comment what has happened ?

          • Obvious

            Besides apparent power off, no idea what’s happening.

          • Bob Matulis

            Power off and temperature dropping steady as one would expect if there is no anomalous heat.

          • James Thomas

            Don’t think we will know the results until all the data is studied. But one thing is for certain and that
            is that Me356 has done some fine work, and deserves copious amounts of beer and applause.
            Thanks you Me;)

          • Ged

            Could have seen something. Reactor behavior was abnormal to both calibration and the past two nonoptimal runs. Very strange change to a much larger thermal inertia at high temps suggests possible internal heat source. (not to mention weird equilibrium temps depending on which way power was pulsed)

            But, the data is unfortunately not as high quality as we’d like–we are bumping up against the limitations of these methods. So we can’t be conclusive either way until we get new methods–but the data is suggestive of anomalous heat production.

          • LuFong

            me356: OK guys. It seems that we should stop at this point so I can improve the software little bit. Then we can try it again in the following days. I will examine the reactor to check if there is everything OK.

            Applause. Looking forward to this again. Thank you me356.

            With each tantalizing failure, I’m really appreciating the progress Rossi has made in all of this.

          • clovis ray

            Thanks Lufong, any conclusions, of the test,

          • nietsnie

            Thanks for doing so much to allow us to spectate while you did science!

          • Axil Axil

            Temperture varition around a critical temperature boundry will produce more NAE. The goal is to find that special temperature. Once that temperature is found, then the temperture must occilate through it to convert gas to solids. .

            If the pressure was visible in a test, then NAE production would result in a significate drop in pressure as the lithium hydrogen gas becomes solid nanoparticles.

            We might see an input power drop below baseline levels result in a delayed temperature increase once the input power is returned to baseline levels.

          • Eyedoc

            Any educated guesses for critical temp?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Perhaps one could find the critical point by reducing power continuously, starting from the highest possible temperature. Even without a pressure sensor one should see some irregular behaviour when condensation occurs.

          • Ged

            Given that there isn’t much material to DN, I would expect the reaction wouldn’t last too long? Any sense of the relative magnitude it would have compared to where we are already?

          • Bob Greenyer


          • Andreas Moraitis

            This reaction seems to need higher temperatures (about 1800K) to be completed, although it may start at 1073 K (see ). The aluminium from the 60 mg LiAlH4 would release 518 J or 0.144 Wh if it could react completely with nitrogen, but that would require 17.7 cm^3 N2. There is certainly much less nitrogen in the reactor, and only parts of the aluminium will get in contact with it. For these reasons I guess that you would get at most a few Joules from aluminium nitridation under the present conditions.

  • nietsnie

    I don’t understand the relationship between ‘setpoint’, ‘current’, and ‘temperature’. At first I assumed that a governor was adjusting ‘current’ to cause it to attempt to raise or lower ‘temperature to match ‘setpoint’. But, this doesn’t seem to always be the case. ‘Current’ vacilates both up and down when ‘temperature’ is both above and below ‘setpoint’. There doesn’t seem to be an absolute relationship between them.

    • Alain Samoun

      True,I don’t understand it either,in a normal PID control,the set point can be set by programming a temperature profile or manually. It seems that the set point is set manually,but which parameter is used for the setting?

    • Daniel Maris

      Same occurred to me. Having asked one question on here I didn’t want to ask another last night…there seem some v. minor variations in current – not enough to explain set points?

  • ecatworld

    Another short power cut, but no heat after death noticable

  • clovis ray

    anyone know what’s going on now, is that the end, at 2.45

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    If process has 30 sec time constant the linear like 6 minute temperature decay on power shutoff indicates some residual heat which just might be LENR residual process based?

    • Ecco

      Possibly. That’s certainly interesting and worth a detailed look.

  • GreenWin

    Clever thinking Wayne. You are not wrong. The thought a Russian in his kitchen can reproduce the anomalous heat effect is the work of our sim’s programmers. They thrive on conflict, drama, failure suddenly turned to success. You are a “viewer” Wayne. One of millions driving the commerce in this story. Stay tuned Wayne. We need the ratings! 🙂

  • Svein Arild Utne

    This was a very good show, that many replicator could learn a lot from when it comes to presenting the data.
    I hope me356 will improve his triac control, and maybe add a pressure guage, so he can see hoe the pressure is changing. I have gon a step furter and ordered a vacuumpump, so at 1000 degrees celsius if the pressure is not dropping low enought, I can open to a vacumpum and pump it down till low pressure.
    I also plan to be able to add hydrogen if needed.

  • Sanjeev

    Does anyone know of any independent, successful replication of Parkhomov’s claims anywhere on this planet?
    Yes, there are three claims of success. I invite you to read this site, it was only a month ago.

    For whatever reason and with respect, this is the fourth failed attempt to replicate Parkhomov.
    There is no point in counting the fails. Most of them failed because of apparatus failure etc. Do failed experiments prove anything ?
    Anyway, its too early because people are just starting, the game has not even began, its at the “net practice” stage. Lets not cherry pick the failures and repeat the F&P story, where only one “failure” proved everything.

    Is it possible the these four attempts (and unknown others) are actually successful, because they refute Parkhomov’s claims?
    This is a fine example of cherry picking. Let me cherry pick too. The two independent e-cat tests, 3 claims by Parkhomov, 3 claims by the one’s I mentioned above, total 8 successful replications of e-cat so far. Success:8, fails:4. What is refuted ?

    • Ged

      People have selective memories, and forget the good to push forward their agends (subconsciously or not).

      Also, worth re-iterating your point that all the previous unsuccessful replications were due to equipment failure. At ICCF, we don’t even know the outcome of the MFMP experiment due to data collection problems. So there are no clear negative results yet–the process is tough.

    • clovis ray

      Sanjeev, i respect your opinion, greatly, but i must caution that ones personality, is not as important as this tech, and it’s importance to the world as a whole, the syenergy must come first, and truth must be maintained, and with open source, it has a better than average chance to succeed, this new fire, this syenergy, is the main gold, —-smile.

  • Svein Arild Utne

    If we look at the boiling point of lithium
    100 kPa 1337 C
    10 kPa 1064 C
    1 kPa 870 C
    So if we have more that 1 atm = 100kPa and the temp is 1200 degrees, we could just pump out some of the gas till lithium starts to boil. If we can not have a thermocopler inside, we can see the temp by watching the pressure. I the hydrogen is traped inside the nickel and will come out slowly, so by a quick pumpdown only the gases that are free will be pumped out.

    • Gerard McEk

      Maybe you can evacuate the reactor tube before you start. When having a pressure gauge, such an extra connection to a small pump should be not too difficult.

      • Svein Arild Utne

        I got three connection points in each end. One is always open and will be connected to pressure gauges. 0-200psi and 0-1600 psi. the others can be closed and open with a valve.
        So I can connect a vacummee pump and hydrogen flushing if I like. What is best is still an open qestion. If the Al should react with the Oxygen and Nitrogen to make vacuum, or if we should just make vacuum from the start.When the ALH braks apart and makes high pressure, it might be good for the hydrigen to penetrate into the nickel, but I think it is only the partial pressure from hydrogen that will help in this, and not the total pressure. So to start with a vacuum might be good.

        • Gerard McEk

          I would say that it is worth a try Svein if the first tests do not show any excess heat. So do not immediately buy a vac. pump!

          • Svein Arild Utne

            The pump is in the Mail.

          • Gerard McEk

            So you are going to try an evacuated reactor first?

          • Svein Arild Utne

            I am not sure, but With the pump connected that is an option

    • Ecco

      It’s not clear whether elemental, unalloyed lithium would exist in these reactor tubes at their typical operating temperatures. I believe it would likely alloy with other metals, forming new compounds with a significantly higher boiling point.

      It’s worth verifying, however. I think most null-result replications had an internal pressure greater than 1 bar absolute.

  • Mike Henderson

    The new fire seems similar to ancient fire.

    When lighting a fire, conditions must be within fairly tight specs.

    The ratio of fuel to air must be within certain bounds, the structure of the tinder fuel should allow for some flow-through. There must not be too much wind, nor too much moisture. An ignition source must be present and applied at the right time and place. Once lit, wood fuel must be physically supported to assure airflow.

    When it doesn’t work ever time, some begin to wonder “Was this fire ever lit?” Fortunately, the new fire leaves an ash whose isotopic makeup would be difficult, at best, to fake. Unfortunately, isotopic analysis is expensive and beyond the reach of DIY experimenters.

    It takes practice and patience to learn how to light a fire. Likewise, it will take time to sort out how to predictably light the new fire. We are gradually learning what those conditions might be. Parkhomov’s nickel? Chopped waveform? Temperature profile? Negative pressure? Hydrogen loading? Lithium source?

    Keep up the noble work.

    • Josh G

      Nice analogy!!

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Parkhomov had the benefit of knowing what the elemental analysis of Rossi’s fuel was. Knowing that the mole ratio of lithium to aluminum was 1 to 1 indicates that the hydride used in Rossi’s reactor is probably lithium aluminum hydride, LiAlH4. So, he wasn’t starting from square one.

    • How many times did the Wright Brothers attempt flight before their plane stayed in the air?

  • Sanjeev
    • Ged

      Really wish there was pressure or sone way to verify hydrogen was retained so its not just heating a rock. Guess we’ll see.

      • Sanjeev

        me356 just wrote on the lenr forums that he wants to test the current design again before changing anything. Step by step…
        I guess its ready for next run.

  • pelgrim108

    Quote from Me256 on LENR-forum
    “Tommorow from approx. 5:00-6:00 UTC next test with current reactor will be started.”

    • LuFong

      I’m very impressed with me356. He does good stuff and works very fast. He must be youngish since he programs and is exceptionally polite but his knowledge seems beyond grad school level (but maybe not for a bright person). Good to see and I’m expecting him to reproduce Parkhomov/Rossi soon.

    • Obvious

      Good luck, Me356.
      Bad luck for me, though. Busy during this attempt as well as the last one…

    • Bob Matulis

      Current seems to be steady. If and when some anomalous heat is created any idea what the tell tale signs on the chart should look like? If I understand correctly the action should start noticeably happening at 1000Cish

      • LuFong

        My expectation is a rapid rise in temperature coupled with a drop in current by the control system or manual control. Also I expect me356 to cut current completely to see if the temperature sustains (heat after death). We saw rapid fluctuations in the previous run but the theory is that the control system worked to dampen the reaction so we never say it take off.

        • Bob Matulis

          Thanks LuFong. Looking at the trend I anticipate we will need to wait about 3 to 4 hours before temperatures reach LENR range.

          • Sanjeev

            He will switch to manual mode after 900C, which will be reached in 1 hour.

        • Ged

          Current in still seems to be fluctuating pretty fiercely though.

          • LuFong

            Yes if you click on the autoscale button you see it. (For me I have to refresh the page to get back). But I thought that a ‘dirty” current is a good thing.

          • LuFong

            me356 just increased current by one level.

          • Ged

            Thank you for keeping us updated.

          • LuFong

            I’m just throwing stuff out to make sure I understand what’s going on…

          • Ged

            Helpful for everyone.

  • Sanjeev

    New test has started.

  • pelgrim108
    • David Nygren

      Critical temperature 16:00- 18:00 UTC

      • pelgrim108

        What I understand is that Me356 has added
        possibility for manual control to the PID.
        He wil go to manualy controlling current to the coil heater above 900C.
        ( I hope I understand this correctly)

        • Sanjeev

          Yes, thats the plan. Few more hours to reach there.

          • Sergiu

            For my clarification, the power is applied continuously as the current line suggests or is actually pulsed? The current is the input current of the source or the output current?

  • Gerrit

    Les Case used unactivated carbon as a catalyst.

    • Ted-X

      Under hot cat condition the un-activated carbon becomes “activated”.

      • Jonas Matuzas

        when orange line will fall then we can shout-eureka ?

        • Vio Phile

          Yes, if the orange line falls, the power in decreases. If the temperature remains at the same level, then I would say yes.

      • LuFong


        “output power is basically unchanged from 18:15”

        That’s the claim.

        • Ged

          Hmm. Current went from ~3.85 to ~4 with ~30-40C temp gain. I dunno, depends on how temp is affecting resistance I guess. Makes one wish for voltage data too. May have to wait to compare to last time to know.

  • LuFong

    Just to clarify, is this a restart/reheat of the previous experiment or is me356 testing a new reactor/fuel?

    • pelgrim108

      Restart/reheat with same fuel as last experiment but with improved software for the control and added possibility for manual control of the heater.

  • LuFong

    Interesting with the drop in current (for a short while) the temperature dropped very fast. With the restoration of the current it rose very slowly…. Also the response was very quick to drop but not to rise.

    Edit: At 18:04.50 but going off the chart now.

    • Ged

      Temp is definitely acting weird. Current was pretty steady while it kept climbing fast for quite awhile then hit that small hard drop and back up again as current finally rose. Not sure what to make of it yet.

  • Jonas Matuzas

    people , why temperature is rising, then current and control temperature is constant ? 🙂

  • Job001

    Your PID controller is way out of tune/control. It should have more integral(I), more derivative(D) and more proportional(P) so that the current is varied by (PID) to achieve control. Make slight changes of no more than about 20% at a time.

    • Gerrit

      is the drive current regulated or voltage regulated ? If voltage regulated, the current fluctuations are caused by the fluctuating resistance of the wire.

      • Job001

        It appears to be current regulated, otherwise voltage should be shown rather than current.

      • LuFong

        Currently at calibration temperature level.

        • Ged

          Same temp for power in now as in calibration?

          • LuFong




            where should we be with 4.1 A?



            it fits with calibration, so exactly here.

            approximately 0,004 * temperature = required current.

          • Ged

            That’s very important to know and a useful equation.

          • LuFong

            Actually it’s come out that calibration was only up to 750C. This result is the same as last test but that makes it not a good calibration. So there is hope…

          • Ged

            We are also a bit low in Parkhomov’s temp range. But yeah, unless things really go crazy, we’ll need the full data for a proper analysis–though that equation “rule of thumb” is useful. But it should not hold at higher temps where diminishing returns for delta temp/delta power occur.

          • LuFong

            Higher the temperature higher COP, exponentially so.

          • Jonas Matuzas

            Actually no miracle yet. (I liked then he do current jumps and temperature raised permanently). but now that we see- by formula 0.004*t . 4.4 current corresponds 1100C, 4.6 -1150C , 4.8- 1200, 5- 1250C.

          • Vio Phile

            No LENR apparently yet, maybe we need higher temperatures.

          • Axil Axil

            I like this type of real time data presentation witnessed by this experiment. It is far better than what MFMP provides in their experiments. You cannot read the data in the MFMP presentation, it is blurry at a very low resolution. The current presentation can be improved markedly by the addition of pressure and it would be great is the two values where connected to show the assoceated values of pressure and temperature pointed to by the cursor. The ability to see the exact value of the data under the cursor is great. Its so easy to become spoiled by good stuff.

            IMHO, we don’t need to see a picture of the dogbone during the test.

          • mcloki

            The future will be live blogged.

          • MFMP actually has an excellent system, but they haven’t been fully utilizing it in recent experiments. The hugnet data page is very powerful.

            I do like the live graphs that some of the replicators are using too. It’s fascinating to see the advances happening with the live open science methods if not the results.

          • Dr. Mike

            Axil Axil,
            Here is what I would like to see in real time data for a replication:
            1. Prior to an active run, the experimentalist has run a power verses temperature curve for an unloaded reactor up to a temperature of 1050-1100C and has this data plotted on a graph.
            2. For the active run a real time plot of input power verses time and temperature verses time is done on a single graph with the plots in two colors. (Add pressure verses time on the same graph in a third color for a really complete presentation.)
            3. Once per minute or so calculate an average temperature and an average power for that time period. In real time (once per minute or so) plot the average power and average temperature on the graph from the control run in #1 (in a different color).

            So two graphs would be running the whole time of the active test. One graph would show input power, temperature, and perhaps pressure verses time, while the second graph would get a data point added every minute or so of temperature verses input power being plotted on the graph of temperature verses input power for the control run. Higher temperatures in the active run for a given input power (as compared to the control) will immediately show excess heat. This would be simpkle enough that everyone can understand the implications of the plotted data.
            Dr. Mike

          • Bob Matulis

            Piggybacking on your point 1 it would be helpful to determine the amps needed to achieve steady state at the target temperature.

          • Dr. Mike

            As long as the heater wire resistance doesn’t change appreciably over the temperature range of interest, current can be plotted verses temperature rather than input power since the input power is equal to the resistance times RMS current squared.
            Dr. Mike

          • Sanjeev

            Firax tech to start a new experiment on 14th, tomorrow. Another one planned on 18th.

          • Ged

            Exciting times! Great to see more and more attempts by the day.

          • Sanjeev

            Started run (about 1 hr ago)


          • Mats002

            Sanjeev, can you help with which instrument show what?

          • Sanjeev

            The red one is temperature of the reactor. Round one, pressure (can’t read) and the multimeters are for voltage and current. (Can’t say which is which).

          • Bob Greenyer

            I am going to make a composite stream with a clock for me356 experiment

          • Axil Axil

            The devil is in the details, so this might be a good time to get into the weeds. Heat might not be the only form of energy produced by the LENR reactor.

            It has been shown in very many LENR experiments that other forms of radiation besides infrared are produced by LENR. There has yet to have been any experiments setup to test for RF emission. The amount of RF energy produced by a LENR reactor could be substantial. In a commensal product, RF could be converted to electric power just as readily as heat energy.

            A combined experimental presentation method that shows all power emminasions produced by the LENR reactor might be worth implementing if it is found that substantial RF energy is produced by LENR.

          • Mats002

            Hi Axil, with what would you like that RF be measured? Some way of doing with small resources? Frequency ranges?

          • Axil Axil


            This reference above has info on RF when LENR is active and points to more RF references in its own reference list.


            Turn your Digital Multimeter into a Low Cost RF Meter!

            CORNET NEAR FIELD PROBE For RF Measurements Close to the Source

            Can be used with 8 GHz Basic RF Meter or High Frequency Meter (or other RF meter with SMA connection) to measure the magnetic field component of the signal in the near field (up close to the source of radiation). Useful from 800 MHz to 2.4 GHz. Great for checking cell phones, wifi, DECT, Blue Tooth and more. Also useful for checking the near field shielding effectiveness of your shielding items (such as cell phone shields). SMA male connector, 50 Ohm impedence. Only 8 cm long. Meter not included.

            Works well with: (may need adapter)
            – 6 GHz Basic RF meter
            – High Frequency Meter
            – RF-id SOLO
            – Broadcast Frequency Counter
            – PC Based Oscilloscope (up to 40 MHz)

            Cornet Near Field Probe (Cat. #A435) …………. $59.00

          • Mats002

            Interesting. The RF experiences seams to come from wet systems (PdD) and such a system is based on electrolysis which in itself produce RF. The NiH dogbone is a dry system without electrolysis. Anyhow all kind of signals that can be measured – even sound as Pelgrim proposed the other day – might be needed to know the current state of the system and by that control the reaction.
            Almost anything is better than control by heat because of it’s signal being both diffused and delayed.

          • Axil Axil

            As a preamble, even though many have lost confidence in the technology that Defkalion Green Technologies (DGT) have developed along with their overall varsity, I regard the DGT people that I had talked with as honest as any in the field because I trust and admire Yeong E. Kim of Purdue to the highest degree.

            DGT revealed to me that in preparation for the ICCF-18 demo, their LENR system took out the phone system throughout the entire building that they were using to prepare for the demo due to EMF interference.

            This is what DGT said to me…

            For the history:

            “We first realized such magnetic noise linked with thermal anomalies 18months ago, when we were making tests with R4 Reactors with isoparabolic calorimetry. One day whilest huge thermal anomalies were observed in the active reactor, our cell phones got grazy (SIC) and the line telephone system was full of noise! We tried to repeat the noise with Ar with no success. So we started looking on this seriously not just as a noise problem. At that time we were seeking for any possible gamma radiation as the main source of lab danger. We realized that we, as well as all before us, that we were looking the wrong way. I think that you know the rest of the story.

            Out of public health protection from magnetic radiation we phased the problem of protection of the control electronics, living very close to the reactor. That was (and still is) a major challenge for NI engineers too.”

            The NI engineers were setting up their monitorung and display system for the ICCF demo.

          • Obvious

            A cordless phone on speaker, and a AM radio tuned to a dead zone should be a good cheap start. Maybe a miniature crystal radio.. If you get some interesting noise, then invest in some real stuff. “Ghost hunters” often have EM meters that are pretty sensitive and have data logging capability that must be available somewhere.

  • LuFong

    What does that do when you “open a triac”?

    • Job001

      The PID control still needs tuned, regardless of specifics of output. Triacs are semiconductors allowing current to flow when “turned on” by the controller.

      • LuFong

        My understanding is me356’s is doing manual control right now and has been since 900C

        • Ged

          That would explain the current current behavior. I hope he let’s current settle fir a bit with no steps so we can see hiw temp evolves, as it keeps edging higher even between steps, but tge steps ruin being able to see if it is producing heat or just inertia.

          • Sanjeev

            We may be seeing something. The temperature rose about 50°C while the input power was held constant (manually). More coming…..

          • LuFong

            Yes, I agree. He turned off the PID (setpoint not relevant) and is manually controlling the triac to maintain constant power because the mains voltage is varying a little (120V-130V)[GED: Must be those damn renewables!]. This is my understanding but I could be wrong. Looks like something is happening though.

          • Ged

            Holding around 998 C with less than 4 A in now.

          • Ged

            Current going down but temp still rising as it has for past 9 min straight.

          • Ged

            Looks to be finally settling now though. Quite different from last time’s constant ups and downs.

          • LuFong

            Voltage did drop but he just now increased power (19:09:06)

          • Ged

            Lag seems to be about 1 minute as seen in this latest step, maybe a little less. Very important for understanging inertia. Suggests a log of this long rise after current plateau may not be completely explained by thermal inertia and lag.

          • LuFong

            Someone said 40 seconds approximately but yes to see reaction need to understand the lags (up and down).

          • Ged

            Importantly: looks to be about a one minute lag between current change and temp change.

          • mcloki

            Very interesting. the temperature difference is 125 Celcius?

          • Ged

            Not sure, woukd have to see full trace. I joined this party a bit late.

          • mcloki

            Same with me . I came in just after the spike to 1000 C. It’s fascinating if what I believe is happening is happening.

          • Mats002

            Bad PID? Input VA vs Temp should be in focus, not the setpoint. But if it is a working PID it is outperformed by some other heat-source…

          • LuFong

            PID is off. Manual control now.

          • Ged

            PID is apparently bypassed right now, all manual control.

          • Mats002

            The the setpoint means nothing?

          • Ged

            Yes, as far as I’m aware. Gotta compare temp and current and behavior directly now.

          • Mats002

            Current vary from 4.04 to 4.18 (that is 160 mA difference) for about 120V, then the input power difference is about 19 VA and that 19 VA diff is giving a temp diff of 1029 – 1022 = 7 degree C. Is that what to expect as COP=1?

          • Ged

            Maybe? Seems so according to feedback from the experimentor?

          • mcloki

            Thanks that means a lot.

        • Job001

          “Manual control” can be done in different ways, including changing set points and PID tunings.

          • LuFong



            I am controlling it still manually

            Similarly as with a potentiometer.

            so the setpoint is not relevant

            at the moment heater power is still same.

          • Ged

            The PID set point was the problem last time. He hadn’t touched the set point so far, as far as I can see.

  • Axil Axil

    Are you noticing how pulsing power activates temperature increase?

    • Ged

      And at a faster rate than previous power steps.

    • LuFong

      Or kills it since temperatures are still rising when he does it.

      • Ged

        The drop to 3 A didn’t drop temp remotely as far as expected, just 10 C, but again lack of steady state.

        • LuFong

          As I noted before it seems to drop fairly suddenly and precipitously with current drop but then responds slowly and not so precipitously with increase. But that could be because of steady state factors as you brought up.

      • Ged

        Downward pulses definitely and remarkably kill the temp rise and lower the equilibrium point for same A in. Strange.

        Updward pulse does the opposite?

  • Ged

    The huge current swings occur where the temp suddenly rises at a much quicker response time than the 40 sec to 1 min lag previously seen at all other steps. Don’t know what is happening to the system.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Is what is happening interesting yet???

    • Ged

      Haha, depends on the point of view, but hard to say from ours. Pulsing the power has weeeird effects though.

      • Bob Matulis

        Temp seems to be rising at constant current of about 4.5. Is this significant? I have not figured out how to look back more than about 10 minutes so hard to put in context.

        Did we ever reach a steady state temperature at the 4.5 amps?

        • Ged

          Hard to say cause he keeps messing. I noticed earlier it would rise for about 9 min post current plateau. We need a longer time to sit than that to see.

          Edit: Pulsing current downwards kills that temp rise hard and puts it as a lower equilibrium, so it may indeed be the flickers of something. Just too hard to say right now.

          • Obvious

            Two minutes feels like ten minutes when you are the one doing it.

          • Ged

            So true!

          • Obvious

            It seemed like forever before the temperature would stabilize in my experiments, though a slightly shorter forever once above 750 °C

  • LuFong

    At 1100C we are seeing no signs of a reaction. It seems like we should at this point.

    • Ged

      We should at 1100 C, definitely, I think. We’ll have to compare with last run.

  • Pol Harvengt

    I don’t see the logic of the seemingly random current fluctuation. Applying repeated variation and checking if the response is fully repeatable would ease a bit the analysis of the observed signal. That’s just basic scientific methodology.

  • Obvious

    This reactor seems to reject heat very effectively.
    I’m not sure that the temperature and current has ever fully stabilized in this high temperature zone.

  • Jonas Matuzas

    I think he has constantly to rise temperature (constantly changing current) and when you see that temperature starts to rise faster then drop current. (mybe to look to second temperature’s derivative).

  • Sanjeev

    Data and charts :

    This reactor did not produce any excess heat as per me356, but did show some strange behavior, especially, at high temperatures.

    • Ged

      Fascinating. Ecco did a great job with charts. His last one is very dense but shows that strang response behavior in an interesting way.

  • Sanjeev

    The behavior of this reactor was anomalous to say the least. The lack of high temperature calibration data makes it difficult to conclude anything precisely, but this looks promising.

  • peter gluck

    I think the effect is triggered only around 1200 C plus a bit, and it does not well to try to trigger it first at lower temperatures. It seems me that Me356 (iyi gunler!) cannot get higher than 1150? True?

    • Mats002

      Maybe 240V/10A is needed to get the headroom for that high temperatures and that is why so far only Europeans and Russians deliver 😉
      Just kidding – thanks for your blog, you are in my favorite bookmarks.

      • Obvious

        I think you may be at least partly right. For most resistance heating wires, getting enough wraps to cover a significant part of the tube, unless the diameter is very small, and still have a robust enough wire diameter to take the long term heat is extremely difficult without 220+ Volts. The alternative is to bury the wire in large amounts of insulating material, which adds considerable thermal mass, and makes controlling the heat difficult, due to slow response.

        • Sanjeev

          It should be possible to convert the mains voltage to any value using a suitable transformer.

        • Mats002

          Jack Cole and other replicators thinking of induction heating as an extra push of heat into the coil. Here is a guy experimenting with induction heating:

          • Obvious

            Seems like a lot of extra work for unknown benefit. Although I really like induction heating in a general way; it is pretty cool. There is a cool levitating molten aluminum induction heating video on YouTube that’s worth a watch.
            I baked my coil through power steps (yet again) tonight (just finished). I sprinkled CeO2 powder on the glass winding coating to stiffen it up a bit, which made the glass enamel go clear, which was pretty neat. The powder glowed a faint green before melding with the glass, which was also cool. It should block UV once fully incorporated into the glass coat, after a couple more bakings. So my windings now can’t short out by touching (immobilized in very viscous glass), conducts heat better into the tube, and the glass itself might also Joule heat in addition to the coil heat. Not entirely sure that is much benefit, but the coil has now lived through 8 runs to peak power and back, but needs more power to break the 1000 °C zone. A nice coat of ceramic paste goop might be enough to get the heat into the zone.
            No fueled runs yet, but I did another (successful this time) internal + external heat run (simulated excess heat) last night with around 50 W inside. Rather boring, actually, and quite a bit on the cautious side after the last destructive attempt. The internal bulb exploded in the heat and dripping glass last time, so I kept the internal heat below 700 ° C, which is about 100 ° hotter than the bulb gets by itself at full power.
            Also experimenting with very small ceramic beads (1.5 mm) for TC wire protection, since the high temp insulation turns to dust after a couple of runs above 800°C. The beads are a nuisance. Need to string 100’s of them on a 12″ TC section, and then hook up the wire to the ceramic TC sub-miniature connectors without spilling the things all over the place… ugh.

          • Mats002

            Obviously it is a challange to push enough heat into the core without failure for long periods of time. Wish you the best!

  • Mats002
  • peter gluck

    I hope this time the testers will be wise enough to NOT do anything prior to arriving to the critical temperature zone- 1150 C at least.

  • GreenWin

    Several experimenters (Ahern, DGT) suggest magnetic fields play a role in LENR. The hot fusion clan found electron dense plasma produces and is able to bend strong magnetic fields eliminating repulsion between hot spots (potentially) in and between NAEs. Should a similar anomaly occur at the much lower temps of LENR – this might explain losses in Coulomb repulsion.

    It’d be interesting in a future experiment to add a magnetometer (Teslameter) to the sensor mix.

  • LuFong

    Oh good, two reasons to not do house chores today!

    Is Me356 using his own fuel, or a sample from Parkhomov?

    • Bob Greenyer

      He said “new fuel” – i know he has Parkhomov Ni

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      I would like to thank me356 for his experiment. Even failed experiments teach us something and I for one am grateful for the amount of work and time he has spent to make this happening.

      • Bob Greenyer


      • Ged

        Here here.

      • The way of science. Replication takes perseverance Parkhomov had many failures before he refined the methodology and there is every indication Rossi and Celani as well as others at SRI and MIT have all taken many attempts before refining the methodology to achieve competence in the art.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Composite stream showing date, local EU time, ECW chat, link to experiment details, graph and refreshes of webcams

    • GreenWin

      Great Bob. THX!

      • Mats002

        That was fun!

      • Jonas Matuzas

        If this experiment will be sucssesfull, is it possible to say what is now different compared with last one experiment?

        • LuFong

          The last experiment probably leaked–pressure stayed constant at 1 whole time. This one the pressure I believe is being consistent with Parkhomov’s data. Someone correct me if I am wrong (I just showed up).

          • Bob Greenyer

            Well – the pressure only peaked at around 2 bar – but importantly me356 achieved 0.5 bar before going above 1000C

  • Bob Greenyer

    The google stream will allow you to go back up to 4 hours in time and you can chat here or on the stream also

    • pelgrim108

      Good idea.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I have now auto-scaled the current

        • Bob Greenyer

          ok – improved it with help of Opdehoede comment on youtube stream chat

          • Bob Greenyer

            I think we just had a meltdown

          • LuFong

            No obvious HAD either.

          • Ged

            It never had a chance to settle though. Dang.

          • LuFong

            So close….

          • pelgrim108

            23:00 to 24:00

            23:03:41 David Nygren
            did you record the chat? 🙂

            23:04:18 me356
            we will see 🙂

            23:04:26 David Nygren

            23:04:32 barty

            23:04:44 artefact

            23:04:46 LENR Calender
            people are gonna go bonkers seeing the temp higher than the set point 🙂

            23:04:49 nickec

            23:05:09 Jarovnak
            He’s in manual, No?

            23:05:19 artefact

            23:05:23 LENR Calender

            23:05:35 barty
            didn’t Parkhomov stay at a specific temp and then got after
            a few minutes (30 – 60) suddenly excess heat without doing anything?

            23:05:40 nickec
            It is the amperage that is the key measure.
            If it drops and stays dropped, an explanation must be found.

            23:05:49 pelgrim108
            @ David yes starting at 14.00

            23:05:54 barty
            or do I confuse something here?

            23:06:19 David Nygren
            Great @pelgrim108:disqus

            23:06:28 Mashukun77
            So, is this it finally??

            23:06:36 nickec
            The explanation favored here, for an amperage drop,
            is “the core is making excess heat”.

            23:06:46 LENR Calender
            Parkhomov kept a steady temp with the controller lowering the input over time

            23:08:00 barty
            humm okay ||

            23:08:40 Jarovnak
            I think ME had some LENR present in his last shutdown?

            23:08:50 lowFish
            @me356 With your controller, after holding it steady for a while
            is it possible to set the current on a downward ramp
            i.e can you change the control input to current instead of temperature?

            23:09:58 Jarovnak
            Yes I think Me 356 is moving current himself if I am not mistaken now!

            23:10:22 barty
            Jarovnak, yes, he said this a few minutes ago

            23:10:34 Jarovnak
            When in manual you have control of current.
            Could step current to zero then bring it back to 4.6 amps to excite LENR

            23:14:02 barty
            hmm looks like this is actually working @Jarovnak

            23:14:34 LENR Calender
            are small changes from 4.6 to 4.4 something done manually
            or just random fluctuations?

            23:15:12 Jarovnak
            Manually I bet

            23:15:32 Tarun
            @22:56 : 4.5A, 1080C, start of holding

            23:15:46 LENR Calender
            its kinda fun to watch this in auto scale mode

            23:15:57 Jarovnak

            23:16:50 barty
            wow it’s climbing

            23:17:12 Jarovnak
            Think I’ll tell Rossi we are at 1080 C

            23:17:29 LENR Calender
            he seems to go back up when the temp starts to come down

            23:17:39 barty
            yes looks so
            he should try to make this steps a little bit shorter

            23:17:57 Jarovnak
            He’s holding manually

            23:18:11 barty
            a moment before you can expect the fall in temperature

            23:18:16 nickec
            I see a promising trend. Hope it continues.

            23:18:32 Jarovnak
            I think he should make the steps down deeper

            23:18:43 barty

            23:19:05 LENR Calender
            I guess he just upped it

            23:19:33 Jarovnak
            Yes he is driving it up

            23:20:36 goax
            1110°C – Do we know where the thermocouple is?

            23:21:23 Jarovnak
            No problem with TC indicated so far
            Can you get to 1200 Me?

            23:22:56 LENR Calender
            now down a bit, lets see if the temp holds

            23:23:17 nickec
            Hope I am not premature. Still looks like temperature
            is climbing disproportionately in comparison to amperage.

            23:23:19 hendersonmjk
            Please stop.
            This isn’t science.
            Let it equilibrate for a while … 20 minutes. Then make a change.
            Then wait again.

            23:24:28 Jarovnak
            Still responding to step up, no problem!
            Are you getting tired Me?

            23:25:55 LENR Calender
            looks like 20 minutes would be a long time if its late over there
            maybe he just wants to run it higher and then let it equilibrate

            23:26:39 me356
            I am not tired at all 🙂

            23:26:56 penswrite
            @hendersonmjk: I’ll settle for alchemy, Me. Thanks.

            23:26:57 LENR Calender
            kinda fun checking how the thing reacts to small changes though

            23:27:07 barty
            at the moment it looks like something is happening :huh:

            23:27:08 Jarovnak
            It only take 4 minutes to equilibrate from responses so far

            23:27:15 Rends
            …have a look at page 23, we are nearly in the region
            where we can compare the temperature curve with the eCat in Lugano

            23:28:17 barty
            nice @Rends

            23:28:24 LENR Calender
            is 1200 the magic number still

            23:28:34 Jarovnak

            23:30:16 barty
            I’ve the feeling that we currently see the first signs of excess heat
            what do you mean? Tarun
            Me, if you want to jump the current, let it jump equally between
            high and low and for equal time, so the average power
            remains constant and we can conclude something

            23:31:03 barty
            the curve looks weired

            23:31:09 adam
            Difference is further separating between Reactor temp and Set temp
            … is that of any significance, or expected?

            23:31:40 hendersonmjk
            Scientific method: Hypothesis = “If is set current to X, temperature will do Y”
            Like Tarun suggests.

            23:32:10 adam
            Also, what is the voltage? 220v?

            23:32:15 LENR Calender
            adam set temp is irrelevant now, he’s in manual mode

            23:32:20 Tarun
            adam, the setpoint is not in use now

            23:32:23 adam
            Oh, gotcha, thanks

            23:32:42 LENR Calender
            henderson’s got a point, I hope we try a constant input at some point

            23:32:54 Jarovnak
            He has control of input current

            23:33:18 nobody
            Rossi has said Hot Cat operates at 1200C. So maybe that is the critical temp?

            23:33:37 barty
            this temp is reached in a few minutes

            23:34:09 Majorana
            If on the right display the voltage is shown then this time we have
            a temperature of 1150°C at the same current but a lot lower voltage
            last time it was 120 V this time only 70 V?

            23:34:41 Jarovnak
            If he switched back to auto it would probably shut
            current off for a while till he got to setpoint

            23:34:51 penswrite
            A pause in current, @ 1200?

            23:35:05 Tarun
            I guess we saw a 20C increase when the current
            was held from 22:56 onwards before the jumps started…

            23:35:08 LENR Calender
            ya @ 1200 it might be nice
            then turn it down after it’s stabilized
            right now we’re just all trying to decipher micro patterns
            at least i am

            23:36:51 Jarovnak
            No it all makes perfect sense what Me 356 is doing

            23:38:19 Chuck
            Why is the video not showing something glowing?

            23:38:29 penswrite
            Trying to simply raise temp, fairly steadily, until target. (Or launch.)

            23:38:32 goax
            It does

            23:38:41 Jarovnak
            How high have you been before Me

            23:39:19 lowFish
            Assuming any kind of LENR reaction ramps up over a period of time,
            otherwise you need to compare the data to a
            calibration dry run to see if there is any difference.

            23:39:23 barty
            Chuck, if you have javascript enabled and are looking at this page:
            the image should update automatically

            23:40:30 Chuck
            That did the trick. Thanks.

            23:41:20 Majorana
            @lowFish right, we need the calibration curve before we’re able to judge
            what was the link for the pressure data again?

            23:47:41 penswrite
            @Majorana: Thanks to Ecco, here is the link:
            “(to the) video of all screen grabs so far,
            you can judge for yourself how much pressure is changing over time:

            23:47:56 LENR Calender
            alright now we’re talking – 1200 coming up

            23:48:16 barty
            yes yes yes
            I am nervous 😀

            23:48:49 Rends
            me too :thumbsup:

            23:48:57 Tarun

            23:49:01 barty

            23:50:41 megamix

            23:51:06 Majorana
            @me: is the voltage really 80 V?

            23:51:52 lowFish
            What was the coil resistance supposed to be again?

            23:52:40 me356
            Majorana: voltage measurement at this time is directly from the heater coil

            23:52:42 Majorana
            It would mean we have a smaller input power than last time
            but the same temperature

            23:53:03 nobody
            Hey, this is looking interesting, irratic amperage

            23:53:06 LENR Calender
            nobody: the input is manual

            23:55:17 barty
            me356, try to stay at a temp now

            23:55:21 Rends

            23:55:32 barty
            It looks like it increases also without increasing the current

            23:56:07 Majorana
            So there are only two parameters left that Parkhomov could have made differently.
            Either he had different fuel (some secret ingredient without telling us,
            which would be very unscientific)
            or he used a different signal to excite the coil.

            23:56:38 me356
            current is somehow unstable at the moment.

            23:56:42 barty
            I meant keep the current, sorry

            23:56:58 me356
            Majorana: signal is known now.
            Jarovnak: Parkohomov used a Russian TRIAC power source

            23:57:19 barty
            maybe you reached the limits of your hardware?

            23:57:27 LENR Calender
            doesnt look like the temp is holding up

            23:58:07 me356
            very strange things are happening

            23:58:08 LENR Calender
            when reducing the input

            23:58:10 Jarovnak
            Me356 had everything under perfect control & is leading

            23:58:19 goax
            Would it be an idea to set the PID on again with a setpoint at 1200°C?

            23:58:24 LENR Calender
            might need to go higher
            ya set it up at 1200 and take a bathroom break

            23:59:12 Rends
            OK with current between 75 and 80 he can control the temperature …very nice

            23:59:14 lowFish
            Perhaps your source voltage of the buildings supply might be fluctuating.
            Probably the PID will keep it steady.

            23:59:17 Jarovnak
            He could put the PID back on to take a well desirved brake

  • Bob Greenyer

    Over 702C in theory when excess heat may begin

  • Ted-X

    What about ultrasound stimulation? Ultrasound (in the Megahertz range) can cause a resonance in the nuclei. Perhaps even cavitation effects in the molten ingredients (Li?, Ni?). Lithium melts at 18) deg. C. Cavitation apparently can cause nuclear reactions. A patent application by James A. Cook suggests that the ultrasound is the missing component, which could reliably produce LENR (in his application – in the Pd-D2 system; US 2011/0044419 A1 , from Feb. 2011).

    • Ted-X

      Lithium melts at 180 deg. C. (correction).

      • Bob Greenyer

        LiH breaks down 900 – 1000C – so coming to next interesting phase in the experiment. Pressure is already 0.5 bar, so good according to Parkhomov.

        • Ged

          So glad we have pressure data! Removes that critical and big unknown. Great work on the composit stream, too, Bob!

    • Bob Greenyer

      Half way through LiH breakdown temperature range

  • Bob Greenyer

    ahhh – 900C – me356 is gonna hold here

    • Obvious

      I wish he had let it run at 900 for a while longer. The temperature variation pattern didn’t really have a chance to settle to whatever it is long term.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Getting late here in EU – I guess he wanted to get up to 1200C before midnight

        • Obvious

          Most of my tests have run to 1:30 to 2 am. I am getting braver with cool down rates, so I can go to bed earlier. Waiting for the return to ambient temperature is pretty boring and takes a long time.
          I have run constant voltage for over an hour on some steps, to see how much variation there is. At high temperatures, the fridge turning on steals a bit of voltage periodically. It’s quite noticable, the high end is really sensitive to even 0.2 V fluctuations when in “steady” state. The later in the night I do tests, the less noise there is, but there is always something it seems. Maybe even the neighbours fridge causes a little dip…

  • Bob Greenyer

    should go through 1200C in next 2 hours

  • Bob Greenyer

    Apparently Rossi now watching experiment! No pressure then!

    • Ged

      Hmm, can’t read the pressure gauge well enough myself on this screen. How is it looking now that we’ve passed the decomposition?

      • Bob Greenyer

        apparently the pressure has risen to 0.7-0.8 bar from 0.5 with 0 being absolute vacuum

        • Ged

          Seems like a good sign we’re holding in the hydrogen, I think. About 11-12 PSI.

          • Bob Greenyer

            just about to hit 1125C a critical internal temp for us in “Bang!”

        • LuFong

          For one of Parkhomov’s experiments he brought the temperature up to about 1200C and then was able to reduce the power in to about half and hold that temperature. I suspect me356 is trying to do this.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That’s the plan

      • Bob Greenyer

        Getting close to 1200C

        • Ged

          On the doorstep! Let’s see if anyone’s home.

          • Bob Greenyer

            oooo me356 takes an audacious power drop

          • Ged

            He loves to live on the edge.

          • pelgrim108

            21:00 to 23:00

            21:06:30 lowFish
            @me356: The current seems to change in steps.
            Is this intentional control or are the steps due to the
            low resolution of the Triac controller board?

            21:08:15 me356
            it is low resolution.
            this is the reason why I will build new control board.

            21:26:45 Tarun
            (21:27:05) i notice current has bigger jumps than before

            21:28:26 lowFish
            Phase control is a bit non-linear I think.
            Steps at different phase angles give different power jumps.

            21:29:40 me356
            Yes, very true.

            21:31:36 nobody
            At what temp did Parkhamov see excess heat?

            21:33:24 Tarun
            above 700C

            21:38:20 Ecco the Dolphin
            I’m thankful for the faster rate of temperature increase 😀
            not sure if I’ll manage to stay awake to witness this to the end

            21:39:16 Jarovnak
            Yes temperature is much more responsive to controller

            21:39:58 Rends
            interesting curve

            21:40:10 Jarovnak
            just joined. is power source now TRIAC based?

            21:40:10 Dionysius
            Phase angle fired controller is much smoother than any other commonly available


            21:41:57 Tarun
            how does the power needed to maintain 900C compare with previous run ?
            anyone has old data to compare ?

            21:44:32 Jarovnak
            Can you blow ccurrent trace up on graph
            so we can see changes controller is applying Me

            21:45:37 me356
            It is quite same to previous run.

            21:45:42 Jarovnak
            Great work ME, exciting test!

            21:46:25 artefact
            Jarovnak: you can click the autoscale button on top of the graph.
            That makes it bigger.

            21:46:31 lowFish
            The raw data is coming from me356’s apparatus
            but the graph is rendered on your local computer.
            I think you can change the scales by dragging the axis with your mouse.

            21:46:46 Jarovnak

            21:46:58 Tarun
            Thanks Me, for looking up.

            21:47:54 Jarovnak
            Great good picture of power now
            Looks like process time constant on order 4 minutes or so!

            22:00:35 Tarun
            Probably Dr Rossi is also watching this experiment now.
            See the Rossi Blog reader 🙂

            22:03:14 Jarovnak
            At 21:58 approximately small step in power more or less
            & temp respond in about 4 minutes?

            22:05:18 Tarun
            yes, it takes 4-5 mins

            22:05:34 Majorana
            I had to go offline for a hour. Has the pressure changed significantly?
            Still at 0.5 bar?

            22:06:33 me356
            it is approx 0.7-0.8 bar

            22:07:01 Jarovnak
            I think Rossi will join us!
            Just maybe he will comment, nice fellow!

            22:07:51 lowFish
            Ah, so the pressure has increased?
            Thats actually good to hear as it implies no leaks.

            22:08:00 Majorana
            wrong, if it increases from 0.5 to 0.8 there could be a leak

            22:09:00 lowFish
            Well, it would expect whatever is in there
            to have expanded by now from temperature alone. if it stays fixed
            at 0.5 despite a 400deg temp rise I would wonder a little.

            22:10:09 Tarun
            Majorana, how ?

            22:16:22 Majorana
            0.5 bar means the pressure inside is below the ambient pressure.
            If there is a leak there won’t be hydrogen or other gas streaming out of the tube

            in Contrast there will be air streaming inside the tube.

            22:16:31 penswrite
            Or, a leak in (but not Linkdin).

            22:16:51 Jarovnak
            Just told Andrea you are approaching 990 C & he should join us!

            22:17:14 Majorana
            me: is the pressure still increasing?

            22:17:17 barty
            @Jarovnak: nice :thumbup:

            22:17:20 Gerard McEk
            I have been trying to determine the controlling behaviour of your ardrino,
            but that is not easy with these moving scales.
            Nevertheless I think the controller is slow in reacting on a change.
            It has some time delay which makes it onstable.
            I do not think it is the Triac controller.
            Maybe you can first do that checking ME386 otherwise you do change something what

            does not work. :S

            22:18:30 Ecco the Dolphin
            video of all screen grabs so far,
            you can judge for yourself how much pressure is changing over time:

            22:19:00 lowFish
            @Majorana. It is possible that air could be leaking in
            and increasing the pressure but the pressure should also
            have naturally increased because of the higher temperature.
            Either the tube is still sealed and the gas is expanding naturally
            or the leak is extremely tiny.

            22:19:08 Ecco the Dolphin
            I think quality will be better if you download it
            instead of viewing it streamed

            22:19:44 me356
            Gerard McEk: I have described the problem many times in previous tests.
            There is a problem with heat transfer delay between
            the heater and thermocouple.
            So the controller can make changes with at least 30s delay.

            22:20:21 penswrite
            Seems like the ~5 minute interval sign-wave pattern/response
            has repeated several times. This could be inspired by the lag-delay.

            22:20:24 me356
            But at the same time I do not want to change anything in PID
            so the test could be comparable.

            22:21:27 Jarovnak
            Yes thats probably a normal cycle to the ramp demand & thermal response!

            22:22:02 penswrite
            me356, no worries. Thanks for your work!

            22:22:05 me356
            It is like steering heavy rock on the water surf.

            22:23:28 penswrite
            (And, hoping for ignition and lift-off.)

            22:23:58 Gerard McEk
            Ok, I saw it right. That makes controlling difficult.
            A two stage controller may solve this.

            22:24:17 Jarovnak
            I like the noisyness of the power input,
            just maybe you will excite some LENR response soon!
            Gerard I don’t think we want smooth control. The nosier the better!

            22:26:59 Tarun
            LiH could have disintegrated fully by now,
            which can explain the slight pressure rise

            22:27:11 Jarovnak
            The problem in the past has been too smooth a power input & no LENR response!

            22:27:17 Tarun
            note that the volume is bigger this time

            22:27:20 lowFish
            Is a noisy supply actually needed?
            Didn’t Parkhamov use an on-off based controller? That would have been just AC.

            22:28:02 Jarovnak
            He sure did & even got the neighbors interest in what was going on with power!

            22:29:00 Gerard McEk
            I think LENR would fall asleep with these dull slow noises.
            You need strong sharp di/dt! that makes it awake X( X(

            22:29:01 me356
            I think that it is not so important to get perfect temperature control,
            in Lugano report we can see that temperature cycled in wide range.

            22:29:11 penswrite
            @ecco: not sure if your video shows any movement in the pressure gauge.
            Do you? What is the actual time scale of the screen-captures ?

            22:29:27 Jarovnak
            Parkhomov also used a Russian TRIAC
            & I think Peter Gluck said you couldn’t get much noisier!

            22:29:48 Gerard McEk
            very true!

            22:30:37 Jarovnak
            Right on Me 356
            The LENR emits high EM & I believe it need some to start & control it properly!

            22:32:12 Ecco the Dolphin
            penswrite: you’re right in that it doesn’t seem to show any movement.
            each frame = 1 minute and the video was made at 25 frames per second.
            you can see pressure rise and fall in the beginning, and that’s all.
            at least from these screenshots

            22:33:51 penswrite
            Do you have a grab of the data?

            22:33:52 me356
            indeed pressure change is very minimal
            so it is probably not visible from the screenshots

            22:33:53 Majorana
            Do you think that in order to check if there has been any leakage
            maybe we could cool down the reactor to, say, 900°C after the run
            and check if pressure falls again to 0.5 bar?

            22:33:57 hendersonmjk
            Denis Vasilenko has delayed his test several days to construct
            a second reactor to run in parallel.

            22:34:37 penswrite
            @Ecco: Do you have/know of a data grab video?

            22:35:10 Ecco the Dolphin
            penswrite: I have not attempted that nor I’m aware of anybody else who did

            @hendersonmjk That parallel run that Denis plans will be very telling.
            I am counting the hours down till that. 😉

            22:35:59 Majorana
            Or in other words do you think the pressure time curve is completely reversible?
            If so it is a definite proof that there are no leaks.

            22:36:30 nickec
            @me What would you say the pressure is right now?
            @me What do you believe your free space is?

            22:41:28 Gerard McEk
            It starts to glow… 👿

            22:41:55 me356
            I think that pressure time curve is not reversible.
            It can’t be from my point of view.
            If so, then Parkhomov re-heated/used fuel ended with explosion.

            22:43:26 nickec
            Only 1 in 161 million of the world are in this chat.
            Interesting. 45/7.2 billion

            22:43:51 Majorana
            hm.. maybe you are right, if there are too many morphological
            changes in the fuel material due to melting etc..
            but all the reactions like hydride formation that are
            responsible for pressure drops should be reversible in principle..

            22:44:42 lowFish
            That insulation tape isn’t holding. Maybe cable ties might hold.
            The curve might not be perfectly reversible as there would have been chemical

            reactions. The gas pressure however should drop if the reactor cools.

            22:44:45 Majorana
            but yes if the fuel melts and changes its surface per volume ratio you are right

            22:44:48 Rical
            @me356: could you now, before 1050C,
            try to change the current + or – 0.1 A in short steps,
            to see if the strange disturbs in other runs continue or not to exist ?

            22:45:28 Jarovnak
            Its already changing by .2 amps blow up you traces

            22:45:45 nickec
            @me What would you say the pressure is right now?
            @me What do you believe your free space is?

            22:46:28 Majorana
            but if we however do see a pressure drop below 1 bar again during the reverse
            cooling and heating path we at least have the proof that there is no leak

            22:46:38 me356
            I think that so if pressure meter does not lie.
            Altough it is possible there was a leak long time ago.
            nickec: it is approx. 5-4mm diam., l=10cm cylinder volume + diam.=1mm,
            l=10cm cylinder volume + little bit space in the manometer

            22:51:56 nickec
            Thanks me.
            If you were forced to guess the pressure right now, what do you think it is?

            22:53:11 Jarovnak
            My current scale is 4.25 to 4.55 amps & putting out
            a nice power related trace on graph.
            Another approximat .25 amp step just went in at 22:50
            Its almost like a pulse width modulated control input.
            The thermal response time constant is still approximately 4 minutes.

            22:56:36 me356
            Now the reactor is controller manually, no PID involved.

            22:56:42 Jarovnak
            I like the controller input Me356 we should see something soon, hopefully!
            Some sharp steps down may excite some LENR while
            still protecting the fuel rod & instruments.

            22:58:25 barty
            @me: what is the maximum temp you plan to go to?

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          This seems to be a recurring problem in many tests. I think we need to have a reactor that can do 1400C easily so you have enough headroom to start the reaction. Material control at those temperatures is obviously very difficult.

          • Obvious

            It seems that the coils tend to get hottest in the centre of the coil, so they fail there most. This is probably due to too-tight wraps in addition, so that the coils are heating each other excessively. The combination of these two effects is what I think causes the high failure rate of the coils. There may some sort of spacing gradient that is ideal, ever so slightly farther apart in the middle, and a bit closer together towards the ends, but not so close that the wires heat each other as much as the tube. If I am right, the ideal spacing rate should even the heat out along the coil and reduce coil failures.

      • LuFong

        Parkhomov once he reached 1200C was able to step the current down quite quickly:

        • Bob Greenyer

          There was a pause for some time

          • LuFong


          • James Andrew Rovnak

            Me claimed to have seen excess heat above 500C today. I estimated a thermal time constant of 4 minutes at temperatures above 900 C where I started watching. If the time constant of system at none LENR event presence was 30 seconds as he has claimed before then LENR power would have made the longer time constant possible. So it may have been a success after all. I am not sure test was a failure, but we must await further confirmations.

          • timycelyn

            Sorry if I’m asking a question that has been covered before, but to ask the obvious, why not use platinum wire as the heating wire? Is it just cost??

            Melting point: 1768C
            Will not oxidise at high temperatures

            Goodfellow metals: 2m x 0.3mm diam wire £456

            Would this have cost – parity with the SiC elements if the cost break is not reached?

          • Bob Greenyer

            It is a good idea, but not standardised and we are looking currently at less than half that price delivered.

          • timycelyn

            OK, thanks Bob. I guessed that was probably the case, but thought I’d just ask the obvious! I guess the non – standard thing doesn’t apply all the time if you are also considering SiC, but the cost point does!!

            So to summarise I’d describe the option of using platinum wire as heating wire as:

            1. Non standard but
            2. Might offer a powerful way of achieving higher temperatures. However
            3. SiC does the same thing, at < 50% of the cost

            So Pt might be useful in situations where SiC cannot be used (availability, some other problem/restriction), where the higher temperatures are needed, and where the high cost can at least be contemplated.

            One final thought is I don't know how the wire would take physically to long high temperature running. Would it become embrittled (bad) or annealed (good – might make it reusable, on several successive cells…. at which point it might actually be cheaper, being amortised across a number of experiments)?



          • Bob Greenyer

            Piantelli uses platinum and we are considering for the MFC in France.

            It is also less prone to brittle fracture.

            If it does fail, it actually has metal scrap value!

          • Daniel Maris

            Can anyone explain to me how the setpoint works? Is that the temperature the system is trying to achieve automatically via a thermostat (e.g. if the temperature falls below the setpoint, current is increased until reaches that setpoint temperature and vice versa)? But also, is the setpoint arrived at to replicate a control test with no fuel?

          • Ged

            Well, I can’t answer the second part, but the first part’s answer is “yes” and that the IR thermometer is what’s being used by the thermostat to hold temperature at the set point via changing power in. He can go to manual mode it seems, at which time the set point means nothing. But we are back in thermostat mode at the moment, it seems.

          • James Andrew Rovnak

            right on Ged! Jim We watch in Awe.

          • Daniel Maris


          • Axil Axil

            This is my opinion about how a setpoint should work. There should be two parameters involved in a set point: a maximum and minimum temperature. The temperature of the reactor should vary by a significant number of degrees. The maintenance of the temperature might be too good in this experiment.

            A lack of perfect equipment might be the secret to Parhomov’s success.

          • Axil Axil

            High temperature heater wire will not solve this control and associated meltdown problem. The limiting factor is the nickel powder. That powder will fail in the neighborhood of 1450C and is the immutable weak link in the design of the Hot cat reactor.

            I seggest that the pulsed arc solution to the control problem as developed by Defkalian should be an option that the builders of the LENR reactor should consider in building a controllable and successful reactor.

          • Defkalion used a specially designed automobile spark plug for their design, and they had to go through a number of prototypes to get it right. They used hydrogen from a bottle and the addition of a nickel foam to enhance the process; exactly how, I do not know. I think the Defkalion method is desirable, but probably beyond the capabilities of organizations that are not well funded and do not have lots of expensive test equipment. I would suggest experimenters add iron dust to the Hot-Cat fuel mixture. Try it with and without carbon dust added.

          • rats123

            Do you have any updates on DGT? They seem to have disappeared. Their website is no longer working.

          • No. I suspect they are working with a new larger silent partner, but I have no first hand information as to what they are doing. They clearly stated that they were going into silence, and I guess they really meant it.

        • Ged

          I agree with Bob, we need to let it sit and decide what it wants to do before we fiddle more. No way to accurately evaluate the data otherwise, unless we get lucky.

          • LuFong

            Maybe now me356 will hold the power.

            Edit: Not yet!

        • Sanjeev

          Another aborted experiment. I’m sure some people will quickly add it to their list of “experiments with negative results”, completely ignoring the fact that equipment failed that there was a leak.

          For some people there is no difference between a failed apparatus and “proof that there can be no LENR”. I wonder how do these people manage to think with such brains.

          An experiment with confirmed negative results will be one where nothing goes wrong and it operates for many days exactly at a COP of 1. Other conditions include, the exact same materials, fuel and protocol as the original experiment (whichever they are trying to replicate). Moreover it must be performed by many independent parties before it can be accepted that the results are negative. This is how real science works.

          Till this happens the field is wide open for exploration.

          Note that even in the case of a negative result by few parties, it will be still worthwhile to continue the exploration. Why ? Because LENR is so important. You cannot simply stop pursuing it just because some random pathoskep with a single brain cell wrote some knee jerk idiotic comment somewhere on the net. 😀

          This research is too important, please continue the efforts. I’m so thankful for all these experiments.

          • Mats002

            Well put Sanjeev, persistence is needed by both replicators and the supporting community, which we all are part of!

          • artefact

            New MFMP experiment probably on Wednesday:
            “So we’re ready to assemble and calibrate on Monday, and could start a run with fuel Wednesday.” (from Facebook)

          • Private Citizen

            Would be interesting to analyze the ash from this run for transmutations.

            From memory, 1200C is the often stated operating temp of the E-Cat on this forum. Curious that possible runaway heat or coincidental failure happened at this temp and about 5 amps.

            If Me356 could inset a closeup of the pressure gauge with an accurate time stamp, the crowd could better reconstruct and follow that variable. From what we could see, pressure stayed low during the highest heating.

            Another sideline would be to see if the fairly gradual heating is even necessary, or if you could push 5 amps from the getgo and arrive at LENR results.

            If not too damaging, heating a control reactor above 1200C might shake out issues with melting/shorting heating coil.

          • Next experiment currently running by Firax Tech:

            The LENR Forum collection page:

            left is chat, right is live data, below that is the live stream

          • Sanjeev

            And the spreadsheet:
            Denis is updating it every hour. Yes, a very slow experiment compared to recent ones 🙂

          • artefact

            I think I will have to get some sleep during the run…

          • Bob Greenyer

            Is the dummy reactor in the foreground?

          • yes

          • Bob Greenyer

            me356 provides images of the failed reactor, heat reflector, comments and data


          • Sanjeev

            ME on lenr-forums:
            OK, reactor is in bad condition now.

            It seems that it produced extremely high temperature. Maybe due to local overheating?

            But maybe there was excess heat. I suspect that this temperature was far beyond 1400°C, thus heater failure must happen.

            For me it seems that the fuel container or nickel was so hot that it
            melted ceramic tube from inside and then damaged whole reactor.

            So this “bubble” on the bottom may be Nickel or melted kanthal or alumina sealing.

            It was so hot that even stainless steel cover was partially melted.

          • Sanjeev
    • Sanjeev

      “Burnt hundreds of reactors” ! – Rossi commenting on Me356’s experiment.

      Andrea Rossi
      May 23rd, 2015 at 8:20 PM

      James Rovnak:
      To go to high temperatures poses very complex problems for the reactor, the resistances, the charge. We burnt hundreds of reactors to find the solutions, in parallel with a very throughly study before and after every experiment.
      Warm Regards,

      • Mats002

        The master himself watching! That warms my heart. With some small hints like that at the right moment, big hurdles can be overcome. It is a win-win-win for all involved!

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    I wish all of the experimenters and watchers lot’s of fun and hopefully success!

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    Don’t you guys love how these experiments all run in basements and kitchens with quick and dirty hacked together devices and still represent cutting edge research?

    • Mats002

      Yes – it is LENR-punk.

      • Ged

        Now that would be a fun genera.

    • Ivone

      It is now getting to the point where you can pick up the Dog-Bone, in about three minutes.

  • Bob Greenyer

    me356 is now in manual control

    • Ged

      Do you know what his current plan is? Seems to be pulsing the power really fast again.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Obviously. Switching power off for a moment might be an interesting option now.

      • Jonas Matuzas

        I would do it at higher temp 1150c

        • Bob Greenyer

          Aggreed – maybe after see what happens after an hour at 1200C

          • Ged

            Second agreed. We need to let it settle long term to steady state to get an accurate idea of what it is doing. Also, do you know if Me365 got a chance to calibrate above 700 C or whatnot? Since input power does not scale linearly with temperature at those higher temps. Though, might be enough just to compare with last time.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Approaching 1150C

          • Ged

            Gotta let it sit for a bit if we want to see what it’s doing though.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I think that is a good plan

          • Bob Greenyer

            So much for what I think – I think he is aiming for 1200C before midnight CET

          • Ged

            That’ll work too! I just hope he lets it do its own thing for a long while before shut down.

          • Bob Greenyer

            no volts – no current

          • Ivone

            What will follow will be a standard Newton’s cooling curve – first worked out in 1670. So before it blew is there any evidence of extra heating? Sorry about this, Jonas.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Congratulations to me356 for conducting a very clean experiment

          • Ged

            Unknown till we get some analysis in here. But it never had a chance to reach steady state, so don’t know how high the temps were going to be for a given input near the end there.

          • Ivone

            Well it’s less than 68 C so you can pick it up. Toss it from one hand to the other.

          • Ivone

            I would recommend that future experimenters approach 1200C very slowly and carefully, so no overshooting occurs. Just my penny’s worth.

  • Ged

    Why do you do this to me, Me. Why do you play with my heart.

    Feel free to use this as the opening lyrics to an 80’s style rock song.

  • Bob Greenyer

    step back in the recording – there is a bloom on one of the previous web cam shots

    • Ged

      There is a very interesting bloom right after the temp started going down and then rapidly back up. Enough that it even illuminates out the sides of the container too. Very obvious something unexpected happened.

      • Ged

        That’ll probably be around time stamp 3h 50min once the steam is no longer live and in video form.

      • Ivan Idso

        Hopefully there wasn’t a current spike that corresponds with the bloom, which would indicate excess heat vs a shorted filament.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    Argghhh… this is a continual problem we have to figure out. This is how my last 3 experiments have ended including one this morning.

    What is the status of the SiC elements Bob?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Ok – I will publicise the offer again next week. we have requests for around 27 elements – want to try to get to 50 to get a price break point.

      The project may use some donated funds to subsidize

    • Bob Greenyer

      For those interested in the standardised SiC elements we are planning to have made

      the ID will be 14mm however

      • Dr. Mike

        Was a control run made prior to starting the active run? If a control run has been done, where is the data for this run? If a control run has not been done, just how did Me356 expect to verify there was excess heat?
        Dr. Mike

        • pelgrim108

          00:00 to 00:35

          00:00:16 penswrite
          Me, “very strange things are happening”
          Please take a well deserved bathroom break–especially if men in black appear.

          00:00:28 megamix
          I agree with calender, need go be higher

          00:00:42 barty
          hmm whats happening now?

          00:00:59 me356
          something failed

          Yes lets go higher

          00:01:09 lowFish
          Maybe let it run for a bit at 1200 with the PID.
          See if anything changes after a while.

          00:01:48 Majorana
          probably the coil failed..
          the wire disintegrated maybe

          00:02:08 lowFish
          Oh dear. Looks like a coil failure

          00:02:09 barty
          @me: unrepairable failed or are you just playing around to find out what it is?

          00:02:16 Jarovnak
          Stll showing current

          00:02:23 Majorana
          since all parameters are exactly like parkhomov’s
          we should see heat after death now

          00:02:28 Tarun
          ya perhaps heater burnout
          thats why the current went wild

          00:02:41 LENR Calender
          thats the ultimate HAD test

          00:02:59 Majorana
          if not Parkhomov did not tell us the truth.
          the whole truth

          00:03:08 lowFish
          Oh wait. meter is showing 0V. Triac board burnout?

          00:03:20 David Nygren
          heater burnout i think 🙁

          00:03:26 LENR Calender
          guess no HAD

          00:03:38 nobody
          interesting, looks to be failure at 1200C

          00:04:10 pelgrim108
          live camara is dark
          power failure?

          00:04:33 barty
          complete blackout now?

          00:04:35 Rends
          looks like a meltdown?

          00:04:48 barty
          ah its back

          00:04:56 pelgrim108
          camara back up

          00:04:58 megamix
          Requiescat in pace !!!

          00:05:43 me356
          it is dead :-B

          00:05:48 lowFish
          I suppose it depends on the meter position,
          but shouldn’t it still show full voltage if
          measuring across the coil even if the coil burnt out?

          00:05:55 barty

          00:06:06 me356
          It seems that either heater failed or connection to the heater.
          There are lot of melted things around 😀
          but prior to that it was possible to see very strange glow

          00:07:04 Tarun
          happened exactly at 00:00 😀

          00:07:09 me356
          so probably heater

          00:07:17 Majorana
          can you read the pressure me?

          00:07:38 barty
          okay guys, I’ll go to sleep now
          thank you me356!

          00:07:47 LENR Calender
          looks like we need to go higher next time

          00:07:50 barty
          good night

          00:07:56 LENR Calender
          1200 doesnt seem to cut it
          thanks for the show

          00:08:04 Rends
          @barty: good night !

          00:08:25 me356
          pressure was still at 0.5 bar
          or around

          00:08:38 Majorana
          and now?

          00:08:46 lowFish

          00:08:52 Majorana
          can you still measure?

          00:09:07 me356
          yes, but I have to return there.

          00:09:20 Jarovnak
          Nice attempt Me 356, Thanks for your efforts & sharing!

          00:09:25 Patrik Wiksten
          Thx for a good show, nite all!

          00:09:31 me356
          no problem
          we will continue next time.

          00:09:55 penswrite
          Ditto the thanks, Me356.

          00:10:04 Majorana
          So what is the “magic” ingredient that Parkhomov does not want to tell us?

          00:10:18 penswrite
          Hope its not truth

          00:10:24 me356
          I think that it is pressure.

          00:10:33 nobody
          Thank You!

          00:10:33 Majorana
          Because there is no HAD

          00:10:34 LENR Calender
          ctrl c ctrl v

          00:10:37 kenko1

          00:10:41 Majorana

          00:10:43 David Nygren
          Good work! Step by step, and your work is very important.
          More and more people become motivated to make the effort.

          00:10:47 Majorana
          @LENR Calender: Maybe

          00:11:08 me356
          I will try to check pressure

          00:11:10 LENR Calender
          who knows – gotta keep trying though

          00:11:25 Majorana

          00:11:33 lowFish
          Parkhomov had higher initial pressures didn’t he.
          Still need to determine whether that rapid pressure drop
          near the beginning wasn’t a leak

          00:11:43 Majorana

          00:12:09 lowFish
          Well, thanks for the run.
          Hope the fault is something simple to fix

          00:15:32 me356
          pressure is still at 0.5
          so probably there was a leak.

          00:16:24 lowFish
          Give the gauge a tap or two with a pole

          00:17:05 Majorana
          But if it stays at 0.5 bar there should be no leak right?

          00:17:39 me356
          it is possible that epoxy glued it somehow..
          but not very likely

          00:18:08 Majorana
          I think there are still hydrides inside that would be good for us

          00:18:14 Tarun
          it should go down if there is no leak, because its cold now

          00:18:17 Majorana
          then you could just use the tube again

          00:18:42 Tarun
          if this is a leak, we can call the experiment inconclusive

          00:19:00 Majorana
          well it was at 0.5 bar when we heated it initially..
          so maybe it is at least reversible to some “smaller degree”

          00:19:07 Tarun
          else it is a negative result

          00:19:56 lowFish
          Its all assuming that the gauge didn’t jam at 0.5 for some reason,
          if something didn’t block the tube.

          00:20:03 Majorana
          If pressure increases ( at least a little bit) at below 180°C again..
          then we know for sure

          00:20:32 me356
          I rather think it was leak.

          00:20:46 Tarun

          00:20:55 me356
          I have examined video from the run and it seems that whole pressure meter moved
          in the time of the leak

          00:21:32 lowFish
          Well, if there was no leak and the gauge was still good,
          it will revert to 1 again when you open the reactor
          But that pressure drop at the beginning was quite sudden.
          Still, the run showed your reactor design could stay at 1200 for quite some time.

          00:23:41 Tarun
          you faced the same problems, that others are struggling with –
          leaks and burnouts, only parkhomov managed to solve them

          00:23:43 Rends
          @me356 around 1200°C your voltmeter went down from 80V to 74 Volt,
          was that an error or something you did manual?
          … and afterwards in went up to 85V

          00:25:55 Majorana
          @Tarun I am not sure about the latter.
          Maybe he solved his problems with Ctrl C + Ctrl v

          00:26:19 Tarun
          Rends, it can be a sign of sudden short and then a break.

          00:26:52 Rends
          @ Tarun …yes, looks like something like that

          00:26:54 Tarun
          Majorana, He released the raw data, without CtrlC
          and apologised in public

          00:28:21 me356
          Current heater lasted for all the runs.
          So actually it was very good.
          I am not sure yet what happened
          We will see tommorow.
          Maybe only cable connection failed

          00:29:43 nickec
          Note doubled twisted leads.

          00:30:09 me356
          yes, this is nice

          00:30:26 David Nygren
          Tomorrow we hope for a new attempt by our Russian friend Denis.

          00:30:30 me356
          all in all I think that temperature of 1200°C is not necessary

          00:30:44 nickec
          Could be.

          00:30:46 me356
          There should be excess heat from 500 – 750°C.

          00:30:49 Majorana
          @Tarun Did Parkhomov admit that the HAD was a result of Ctrl C and Ctrl V? What do

          you mean by apologize?

          00:31:03 nickec
          500-750 seems possible.

          00:31:41 me356
          so for next tests I think that epoxy resin is not good at all.

          00:31:44 nickec
          Ctrl C V not a factor in HAD.

          00:32:05 artefact
          I think Parkhomov only got excess heat at ~700
          after he went first to over 1200 in a first run.

          00:32:08 nickec
          Only a factor in other areas of plot.

          00:32:19 me356
          It is in a bad condition.

          00:32:28 Tarun
          Majorana, no he admitted doing interpolation of missing data,
          and apologized for not mentioning it. See e-catworld blog for details.

          00:32:35 Rends
          Not nessecary, but may be at 1200°C and higher
          something like the self sustain mode begins ..

          00:32:37 me356
          artefact: yes, but excess heat was noticeable from 500°C

          00:32:51 nickec
          Can you place destroyed parts in front of webcam?

          00:33:05 me356
          It is very hot at the moment
          so we have to wait
          Now I will go to bed.

          00:33:22 nickec
          Understood. No tongs.

          00:33:25 Majorana
          Is pressure back at ambient?

          00:33:30 nickec
          Sleep well.

          00:33:42 Majorana
          Good night,

          00:34:02 Rends
          Good Night!

          00:34:05 artefact

          00:34:10 me356
          thank you very much!

          00:34:30 Tarun
          thanks and see you again ….

          00:35:01 Majorana
          Thank you!

          00:35:21 pelgrim108
          Thanks ME sleep well. 🙂

          00:35:41 kenko1
          thanks for trying


        • pelgrim108

          18:00 to 21:00

          18:01:18 Patrik Wiksten
          Evening boys and girls, good luck me!

          18:07:46 Tarun
          hi all , good to see another run :thumbup:

          18:11:07 me356
          Thank you!

          18:15:20 Arnaud
          what is the current pressure? It is not easy to read from the Live camera
          How was the shape of pressure ? Max pressure ?

          18:24:14 Majorana
          @me: are you recording the pressure vs. time curve?
          I’ve just entered the chat, sorry if this was said already.

          18:34:19 hendersonmjk
          The pressure initially rose +1 atmosphere but rapidly returned to ambient.
          Some possibility the seal failed. If so, this is not a total waste of time.

          Instead this can serve as a calibration run
          … power in vs temp data will be valuable.

          18:41:08 Majorana
          Yes, definitely. And since the setup has not changed much since the last run
          (except the swageloks), we actually already have calibration data.

          18:43:24 Tarun
          oh no… is it too late to stop the heating and fix any leaks ?

          18:44:06 Majorana
          actually.. does anyone recall what the pressure time curve of
          Parkhomov looked like?
          maybe this pressure falling is not necessarily bad?

          18:48:17 Tarun
          pasting from parkhomov report –

          Pressure increase began at about 100°C.
          The maximum pressure of about 5 bar is achieved at a temperature of 180°C.
          Thereafter, the pressure falls, and at temperatures above 900°C,
          the pressure is less than atmospheric. The highest vacuum (about 0.5 bar)
          occurred at a temperature of 1150°C.
          Subsequently the pressure gradually approached atmospheric.

          18:52:50 me356
          There was 2 bar peak and then the pressure fell in few minutes to 0.5 bar

          18:57:06 Tarun
          is that pressure relative, i.e. 2 bar above atmospheric ?

          18:57:09 Majorana
          are you talking about your manometer now or about parkhomovs? =O

          18:58:40 me356
          absolute in my experiment
          so the peak was 1 bar + 1 bar atmospheric

          18:59:25 Majorana
          and now it is 0.5 bar?

          18:59:28 me356

          18:59:45 Majorana
          so there is no reason to speak about leakage people!

          18:59:54 Tarun
          which means no leaks
          its below atm

          19:00:17 Majorana
          this looks more like hydrides have formed.

          19:00:38 me356
          but this happened quite soon

          19:01:46 Tarun
          thats strange

          19:01:47 me356
          so I dont know what to think

          19:02:59 Ecco the Dolphin
          still, keep on heating; it could very well turn out that
          a partial pressure inside the cell is what enables excess heat,
          and that the seal doesn’t have to be perfect
          personally looking forward to seeing >1100°C temperatures, though

          19:06:19 ical
          We cannot well see the gamma display because the
          shadow of the pressure display. Thanks.

          19:06:55 Ecco the Dolphin
          the most significant digits are visible

          19:06:56 Majorana
          well we can’t see the last decimal..
          not so important

          19:15:19 pelgrim108
          MFMP is streaming this experiment live on youtube for the sake of
          having a (preliminary) recording of the data
          Bob greenyer explains here:

          19:20:41 hendersonmjk
          me356 – You are doing great.
          Don’t change anything because of idle speculation from observers (like me).
          Your experiments are among dozens that will teach us how to
          ignite LENReactions reliably.

          19:23:51 Tarun
          at what point are we expecting the next decomposition of LAH ? anyone knows?

          19:24:52 nobody
          @me356: Do you have any observations on the pressure to note? Fluxuation?

          19:25:05 Ecco the Dolphin
          at this stage I think there is only LiH left, which should decompose above 900 °C

          19:26:31 Tarun
          we might see some pressure changes at 900C then

          19:26:49 Ecco the Dolphin
          currently the reactor tube is at a temperature at which LiAl alloy melts
          also one at which aluminum nitride should start to form

          19:27:30 hendersonmjk
          When heated LAH decomposes in a three-step reaction mechanism:
          #1: 3 LiAlH4 → Li3AlH6 + 2 Al + 3 H2 (150 to 170 deg C)
          #2: 2 Li3AlH6 → 6 LiH + 2 Al + 3 H2 (200 deg C)
          #3: 2 LiH + 2 Al → 2 LiAl + H2 Reaction
          #3 is reversible with an equilibrium pressure of about 0.25 bar at 500 °C.

          19:27:35 Ecco the Dolphin
          which might cause a slight decrease in pressure

          19:28:19 Gerard McEk
          It seems that there is a copper heat shield around the reactor.
          Is that correct?

          19:29:00 hendersonmjk
          Sounds like we are right on track with reaction #3.

          19:29:21 Tarun
          thanks hendersonmjk, so is it 500 or 900C? i am confused

          19:30:09 hendersonmjk
          The first two reactions are irreversible and happen at specific temps.
          The third reaction is an equilibrium condition.
          The ratio of left side vs right side will vary with exact P and T.
          Wikipedia is my source

          19:32:11 Tarun
          i see, that may mean that we will not see a clear pressure change
          It says at 500 degrees C, this will naturally
          equilibrate to a pressure of .25 atm.

          19:32:35 Tarun
          but it seems Ecco has a different opinion

          19:33:57 hendersonmjk
          Yes … adsorption of hydrogen on the surface of the NI and deep into
          the Ni lattice will become a bigger factor at higher temperatures.
          There are charts that show how fast H diffuses in Ni at temps.

          19:36:10 Ecco the Dolphin
          Tarun: it’s not exactly a perfect environment. It’s likely that
          much of the LiH will react with the Al forming LiAl and H2.
          The portion which doesn’t will decompose above 900 °C

          19:36:29 hendersonmjk
          Some of us believe that diffusion packs the crystal tighter,
          constrains the protons in the center of the FCC crystal.
          Heat and oscillating EM and the uncertainty principle combine to make it
          have high momentum in a small confined spot. Whammo.

          19:36:59 Tarun
          ya, presence of Ni makes things complicated. pressure will not tell us whats
          happening inside exactly, so lets go on.
          hendersonmjk, does that predict a product or byproducts?

          19:44:00 hendersonmjk
          Not really. Piantelli’s patent explained it in such terms.
          The lugano report gives a clear footprint of Ni62 enrichment,
          loss of Ni61 (the only natural isotope that has a magnetic moment),
          and shift from Li7 to Li6. Lot’s of mechanisms proposed for those.

          19:46:46 Gerard McEk
          Perhaps I am wrong, but the current seems to stabellize while the temp rises.

          19:46:53 hendersonmjk
          The “rattling in a tight cage” theory in my mind explains why
          nuclei are forced to interact with each other and exchange neutrons.
          Its a nanoscopic tokamak fusion vessel. 😉

          19:49:37 Tarun
          i agree, it is a very intuitive theory
          Gerard, I m seeing that too 8) @19:51: 3.1-3.15 A, 740C

          19:55:24 me356
          Response is still around 30 seconds. This leads me to believe that
          in previous runs there was probably excess heat,
          yet not measurable by the thermocouple
          as it happened in another part of the reactor.

          19:58:42 Gerard McEk
          Before the 700 C the current rose slowely but surely, now there is a different


          20:01:12 barty
          hi, how is it going? something interesting happened?
          just came in, sorry :/

          20:03:28 Tarun
          hi barty, everything is well and as usual 🙂

          20:04:01 lowFish
          What is the pressure at the moment?

          20:04:10 Rical
          probably the oscillations of temp/current come from
          the delays hearter-current => core => external-temp.

          20:04:31 barty
          okay, thank you for the info @Tarun 🙂

          20:07:38 sveinutne
          What is happening with the temp?? Flat on 756?

          20:08:35 lowFish
          Still some delay between change in the heater power and the recorded temperature.

          is this due to the heat conduction rate of the
          ceramic between the coil and the thermocouple?

          20:09:03 me356
          Interestingly we have seen in previous runs that there were
          strange fluctuations that caused 10-20°C difference without reason.

          20:13:49 barty
          hmm strange
          but strange in positive

          20:14:13 Dionysius
          The control I’ve seen is pretty good for so small a thermal mass… way to go!
          What kind of controller are you using?

          20:28:06 Gerard McEk
          Can the PID factors of the controller be adjusted?

          20:29:00 me356
          It is implemented by me in the Arduino board.
          Yes, it can be adjusted.
          But to make tests comparable I dont want to change at the moment.

          20:29:34 Gerard McEk
          I would increase the I factor to see if that makes the behaviour more stable.
          Ok . Did the same happen in the control run?

          20:33:04 me356
          actually increasing I makes it unstable
          Now we know Parkhomov used 2 thyristors,
          no bridge rectifier and relay to open these thyristors.

          20:38:15 barty
          what does this mean? that he used 2 thyristors?

          20:38:23 Gerard McEk
          Interesting. The other possibility is to decrease the Proportional factor.
          I assume the D factor is 0? The latter makes controlling often very
          nervous and is not so often used in practice,
          unless you need very quick responses.

          20:38:27 me356
          that it can be replaced by one Triac

          20:39:08 barty
          okay, but not a special wave form?

          20:39:37 me356
          no at all.

          20:40:25 barty
          hmm okay
          @me356: do you know if parkhomov is doing further experiments?
          or if he’s helping a university in russia to setup one?

          20:41:28 me356
          No, I dont know. This wasn’t answered.

          20:41:41 barty
          hmm bad :/

          20:43:06 Gerard McEk
          So Parkhomov did on-off control with the thyristors and not PWM. Good to know!

          20:43:17 me356

          20:43:30 barty
          is PWM not a way of “on-off”?
          with very short circles
          20:43:52 me356
          Actually you can’t use PWM with thyristor/triac very well.
          to control it directly.

          20:44:41 Gerard McEk
          Yes it modulates the sine-wave, but you cannot do the with the relays.
          Then you switch them on and of during some seconds.

          20:49:04 me356
          So it seems that my current setup is very close to his and Rossi’s.

          20:50:05 barty
          that’s nice 🙂

          20:50:18 me356
          but it is possible that he just sending 100% power to it or nothing.
          because relay is very slow.

          20:52:22 barty
          do you know if you have positive pressure?

          20:53:59 me356
          yes, it is “negative”

          20:54:35 barty

          20:54:48 me356
          actually this is good.

          20:54:52 barty
          do you have a leak?
          ah okay?

          20:55:17 me356
          It is approx at 0.5bar

          20:55:26 barty
          same as Parkhomov? first high pressure then absobed?

          20:55:37 me356

          20:55:43 barty

          20:55:45 me356
          But peak was only 2 bars.
          but I can’t guarantee it as the readings are analog and meter is nothing special.

          20:56:18 barty
          okay, but your data now more fit with Parkhomovs data then MFMP’s data
          Parkhomov also had a very simple one

        • Bob Greenyer

          I think there is an expectation that the reactor will need less power to run at 1200ºC over time, in line with Parkhomov’s long term run.

          • Dr. Mike

            Thanks for your response- I guess this is the effect that Me356 is looking for, However, Parkhomov demonstrated excess heat was detectable at 700C by comparing the “no fuel” power verses temperature curve of the reactor to the same curve for the fueled reactor. It would be a much more scientific experiment if replicators like Me356 first ran a “no fuel” control run. I would recommend that MFMP always follow this protocol.
            Dr. Mike

          • LuFong

            Of course I find all of these replication attempts worthy and very interesting. But I also had a thought yesterday — why are all of these attempts of the Hot Cat? (OK, probably because the Lugano Report describes the Hot Cat.) But Rossi’s 1MW plant is comprised of the low-temperature E-Cat. His great gains are with the low-temperature E-Cat. Ross has recently said that he has only thus far produced a Hot Cat with a 3.5kW power output.

            Maybe from a technology standpoint it would be easier to try to replicate a low-temperature E-Cat. It’s interesting that Rossi has only supplied Hot Cats for the public experiments.

          • Sanjeev

            Unfortunately, there is no info at all on how to build the LT E-cat or its parameters etc. (as far as I know). So there is no option but to try the hot-cats since most of the info is out there for hot-cats, including fuel, construction, operation and more.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Another experiment – this time by FIRAXTECH, which will be the closest parkhomov replication yet should start tomorrow

    • Ged

      Looking forward to it!

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      Thanks for the information, Bob. I will definitely tune in for his experiment.

      • pelgrim108

        Here below is the experiment chat for the me356 May 23 test.

  • pelgrim108

    14:50 to 18:00


    14:50:47 me356
    Until we will get verified excess heat then I would like to start with new fuel.
    With used fuel (where excess heat happened) you can heat it very fast.
    Because pressure is low all the time.

    14:52:58 barty

    14:53:42 me356
    At the moment pressure is approx 0.2 bar + 1 bar atmospheric
    it is 5x less than in Parkhomov experiment all the time.

    14:56:35 Mats002
    Hi all, looking forward to an exciting night. Question to me356:
    How have pressure changed with the decomposition of LiAlH4?
    Pressure expect to rise somwhere between 100 and 200 C and then decrease?

    14:58:01 me356
    yes, this happened exactly as in Parhomov report, altough pressure is 5x lower.

    14:58:14 Mats002

    14:58:53 me356
    the peak was 2 bars (1 + 1bar atmospheric)

    14:59:29 Mats002
    The 5x lower would be because you have more free volume in your setup than
    Parkhomov had?

    15:00:01 me356
    yes, this is very likely.
    tube in the pressure meter has 1mm internal diameter
    and there is lot of free space in the reactor as well.
    So for now we don’t know if so low pressure is good or bad.

    15:07:50 Ecco the Dolphin
    it looks like pressure suddenly decreased a few minutes ago

    15:11:41 lowFish
    How is the pressure gauge mounted in the reactor?
    How is the measuring tube sealed in?
    @me356 Earlier you thought that one part of the tube might have had
    a higher concentration of LAH. This brings up the question,
    how are you mixing the Nickel and LAH?

    15:23:16 Rends
    @me356 … Could you please provide us with some information
    what we actually see and what your expectations are?
    Please explain the Reactor Live Data on LENR Live;
    and please describe the test arrangement on the LENR Live Camera,
    if you have some time.
    (and could you please move the pressure measurement tool,
    because it causes a shadow on the display behind THX)

    15:29:54 Gerard McEk
    Hi me356, I wish you all the best luck in the world with this attempt!
    What controller do you use and what is the the voltage you can achieve?

    15:33:00 hendersonmjk
    Checking in. Big day. me356 and possibly Denis Vasilenko too.

    15:33:33 me356
    Expectation is excess heat 🙂

    15:34:04 Rends

    15:34:16 me356
    GlowFish: this was in the previous test.
    I was very carefull to make fuel mixture very homogenous this time.
    Multimeter is displaying voltage on the heater coil.
    pressure is mounted hard there.
    pressure meter

    15:37:56 Ecco the Dolphin
    test: xxx*dropbox*com/s/kmtd282m88zco9x/0001-0051.mp4?dl=0

    15:39:06 me356
    I am saving screenshots each 900seconds

    15:40:33 Rends
    @both …nice,so I can stop capturing! 😉

    15:46:42 Ecco the Dolphin
    from my video you can see that pressure dropped at some point

    15:50:26 hendersonmjk
    Seal failure?
    Ecco – I like the video. me356 – Could you put a timepiece
    watch or small clock) in the frame for reference?

    15:59:15 me356
    Ecco the Dolphin: very nice video
    I can also create one after the test

    15:59:43 Ecco the Dolphin
    it was 51 frames of animation at 8 fps. 1 frame = 1 minute

    15:59:58 me356
    I hope it was not sealing failure
    Actually I have checked the pressure carefully and it is at approx. 0.5bar
    under athmospheric

    16:05:53 Gerard McEk
    What did you assume there may be a sealing failure?

    16:06:12 me356
    it seems there isnt any failure

    16:06:22 Gerard McEk

    16:06:54 me356
    actually it could be better that we reached 0.5bar quite fast

    16:08:23 Ecco the Dolphin
    I have something else to show

    16:08:27 lowFish
    So the gauge still reads 0.5bar over atmospheric?
    I suppose if it keeps rising then the seal is still good

    16:08:28 Ecco the Dolphin
    try switching between both photos
    you can see that the reactor moved a bit
    check out the pressure gauge
    .gif incoming

    16:11:09 lowFish
    Hmm. The tape holding the wires peels off a bit more but
    I don’t see any reactor movement. The gaugue might have
    drooped a bit once the internal pressure in the tube dropped.

    16:11:43 Ecco the Dolphin
    isn’t the pressure gauge rigidly attached to the reactor tube?

    16:12:19 lowFish
    I would suppose so, but the small tube might be some what flexible.
    I think the tube of the gauge just flexed due to the pressure difference.
    The wire going over the tube moved a little as the tube did.
    The wire peeling off the bottom is just the insulation tape failing I think.
    A pity. Can’t actually see the pressure reading in the camera photo
    me356: Are you still using PI control?
    or are you using some kind of on-off control?
    Or are those current “jumps” I am seeing just an artifact of
    the low bit resolution of the Triac controller?

    16:36:29 Arnaud
    Good luck me

    16:40:41 sveinutne
    Nice to see you got a pressure gauge this time.
    Is it above or below atm. pressure?

    16:42:47 Gerard McEk
    Hi Svein, at 16.08 it was 1,5 bar.

    16:43:15 me356
    at the moment it is at 0.5 bar

    16:43:58 Gerard McEk
    Above 1 atmosphere?

    16:49:37 me356
    no, under

    16:50:01 sveinutne
    That is fantastic
    How much dead volume do you have?

    16:53:00 lowFish
    Doesn’t that gauge read relative pressure?
    Or is it one that measures absolute i.e relative to vacuum?

    16:53:50 me356
    sveinutne: I can’t answer it precisely, but there is relatively big dead volume.
    GlowFish: I have calibrated the meter so it can
    measure even 1bar AP – 1 bar = 0bar (absolute vacuum)

    16:55:02 sveinutne
    I think that is very good, and now your pressure is close to Parkhomov.
    This can be an interesting night. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

    16:55:44 nobody
    How hot do you plan to go before experimenting with power changes?

    16:55:45 me356
    so it show us absolute data in regards to vacuum.

    Ah ok. Thanks

    16:57:36 me356
    All in all I want to use Swagelok fittings instead of epoxy resin.
    I dont trust it too much.

    16:59:38 nobody
    @me356 What is the current target temp?

    16:59:46 me356
    I am 70% certain there was very noticeable excess heat
    in the previous fueled tests, but it was not possible to measure it.
    It is longer story so I will describe it later on the forum.
    So in the future tests I want to change few things so I can be sure.

    17:03:18 David Nygren

    17:03:46 me356

    17:04:05 David Nygren
    Seems to be some activity here 🙂

    17:04:16 lowFish
    Bury the reactor in a box of sand to insulate it.
    If there is excess anywhere then it should heat up the
    whole reactor and not just a bit of it and be missed as it radiates away.

    17:04:31 David Nygren
    A question! I is not been completely updated last week.
    me356 and Dennis Vasilenko, is this a this joint project? Who does what?

    17:06:23 lowFish
    Aren’t me356’s and Vasilenko’s completely seperate projects?

    17:07:16 me356
    Yes, completely separated.

    17:07:23 hendersonmjk
    Yes, they are separate. Coincidentally both planned attempts today.

    17:07:31 David Nygren
    So we have maybe two attempts today /tomorrow?

    17:09:07 hendersonmjk
    Vasilenko appears to be a ~28 yr old tinkerer who
    lives in / came from Volgograd, about 1000 km south of Moscow.
    me356 seems to prefer to be anonymous, and that is fine with me.
    Vasilenko in a chat on the Russian equivalent of FB said
    he needs to move all gear out of the house due to runs are too hot.
    He may get things hooked back up in the new location this evening,
    but there’s a lot to reconnect.

    17:11:28 David Nygren
    Thx for update :thumbup:

    17:13:53 hendersonmjk
    Didn’t somebody try standard plumbing compression fittings
    instead of Swagelok? (We used to joke that if Swagelok parts were
    sold by the gram they would be priced higher than cocaine.)

    17:24:31 sveinutne
    Now we passed 500 degrees. Is there any change in pressure?
    Obs 500 c

    17:25:35 Ecco the Dolphin
    it doesn’t seem to have changed

    17:29:27 Mark Saker
    im not seeing anything in the graph is that correct?

    17:30:04 Ecco the Dolphin
    Mark Saker: there should be data visible

    17:31:43 sveinutne
    I see 2 temp and current

    17:41:07 Ecco the Dolphin
    Peter Gluck hopes the testers won’t do anything strange until
    before reaching at least 1150 °C

    17:54:50 me356
    For next fueled run it is needed to make dead volume smaller than
    at the moment (to get 5 bars as in Parkhomov case)

    17:55:28 lowFish
    What is the pressure now? It should have gone up a little

    17:56:11 Ecco the Dolphin
    no change as far as I can see

  • pelgrim108

    New experiment by Firax will start in a short while.
    Here is the live stream: ( click the grey youtube logo on the bottom right, after you started the video, to open the stream on youtube and see and use the chat)

    • Private Citizen

      Google Hangout is okay for a general video, but sucks for reading/visualizing data or communicating with experimenter. Plus the time limit on Google is a PITA. Can see two readouts fairly clearly, rest is lost.

      • Sanjeev

        Upper red display – active reactor temperature
        Bottom red display – dummy reactor temperature

  • LuFong

    Here’s a 500ms animated gif of the 1 minute screenshots of the burnout. Time is from 23:47:42 to 00:4:44. After the burnout screenshots came every two minutes and then stopped.

    Animated Gif:

    This is too big for Disqus. Click on the image for a larger size.

  • Daniel Maris

    Good luck to the researcher. Hope some interesting data is collected.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    I wonder if the readings of the IR thermometer and the thermocouple will be comparable all the time. The IR device should not be influenced too much if escaping hydrogen burns near the reactor surface. We have to observe what happens when the autoignition temperature of H2 (about 536C) is reached. A sudden higher reading of the thermocouple in comparison to the IR thermometer would be a bad sign; in case that the readings remain consistent we could be reassured with regard to this point.

    • Ged

      Well, considering there’s only milli to micrograms of hydrogen in there, and diffusion is undirected, there’s not enough H2 in any particular point to be detectable (gotta divide by surface area). The higher the surrounding temperatures, the more power it takes to change them by even 1 C, so that much hydrogen won’t even make a momentary blip unless it all went at once at the exact right spot (and again, it would not be prolonged, and temperatures would not keep rising).

      Thus, I can find no traction in that idea. But at least this can falsify it easily enough. On the other hand, other physical issues can cause a divergence in the IR thermometer and the TC, mainly if the wavelength of the IR emissions start to exceed the detection window or the point of optimal detection efficiency of the IR thermometer, which would make it read incorrectly low. Don’t know anything about his particular instrument.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        In any case, it was a good idea to combine two completely different instruments in one setup. Consistent readings would be a big plus for this type of experiment. Inconsistent readings might allow various explanations, as you correctly say. But let’s see what will happen…

        • Ged

          Completely agreed! Multiple instruments/measuring methods at once are a very good and encouraged practice.

          Thinking more about it, we do have additional data against the “diffused hydrogen burn” hypothesis. One such piece is that when LENR has been suspected to be seen in these types of hot experiments, it’s always well past the 530 C point. The other stronger piece is experiments that had hydrogen and yet did not show any suspected activity due to whatever reasons, such as the several MFMP dogbone and earlier glowstick tests. So we do at least have some data about this, even if it wasn’t directly testing the idea.

          • Sanjeev

            In that case, I wonder, why no one has tried a Celani cell with lots of Lithium in it. Not even Celani himself or MFMP tried it (as far as I know).

          • Ged

            There was talk to do so, once it was noticed that the one common thread (that’s been realized, anyways) between all the successful Celani reactors was lithium in the borosilicate glass, but I don’t think it’s been pursued since it was brought up (as far as I am aware). Seems the Glowsticks and other designs have stolen the show from the lower powered Celani wires.

  • Ged

    As Frank says, good luck to Me365! All these experiments that people keep doing are definitely giving us a lot to chew on and keeping us entertained. Thank you for your hard work!

  • Gerard McEk

    Thanks ME365, for sharing this with us. If I understand it right, the IR meter used for the temp. control. Is the TC located inside the reactor or somewhere in between the heating coil and the reactor tube?

  • Ged

    Some interesting behavior going on. Don’t have access to the chat, so not sure what is up. Anyone in the know have more details about what is currently occurring?

    • Andreas Moraitis

      I guess he switched to manual control.

      • Ged

        Interesting to note how much more responsive the IR thermometer is than the TC to the spikes in power, both up and down.

  • Bob Greenyer

    From me356

    “Everything is working very well.I am very satisfied with IR.

    Yesterday I have compared IR and TC readings and it seems that there is just 0.1% deviation.
    This is approximately 1°C error (at 1000°C) with unchanged emmisivity settings in wide range of the temperature.

    This is fueled test run before SiC element will arrive.”

    • James Andrew Rovnak

      As usual great work me 356. Alan will appreciate this info! Jim

    • Daniel Maris


      • Bob Greenyer

        Silicon Carbide (heater element)

        • Daniel Maris


  • Bob Greenyer

    me356 short live fuelled test to 1200C – Youtube composite stream (youtube chat will be recorded automagically in the stream)

    me356 decoded a calibrated to 2200C IR spot meter’s communication protocol by reverse engineering (due to it not being open) and successfully interfaced it with Raspberry Pi.

    So this board acts as PID, data processing, data logger, camera stream, reactor control interface, etc.

    Here is the meter used

    You can buy it on Conrad anywhere in Europe or other shops.

    • Sanjeev

      Great !

  • Andreas Moraitis

    No, these are both external temperatures – the internal temperature should be much higher (see the calibration chart below). A possible reason for the offset might be that the thermocouple provides some isolation, so that the reactor loses less heat at this particular spot.

  • pelgrim108

    LENR-forum chat text for the june-14 test by me356. ( no account for LENR-forum is needed)
    Youtube recording and youtube chat here: