‘No Time to be Lost’ in Bringing E-Cats to Market if Test is a Success

You will notice that there’s now a countdown clock on the bottom right of this page. That is measuring the time left until Feb 5th, which is the date the 350 day test will end, providing there is no downtime during the remainder of the test.

I have often wondered how long it might take for E-Cats to be available in the marketplace, providing this test is successful. Will industrialization start up right away, or will Leonardo and its licensees only start to gear up for commercial activity after the test has been successful? Will we be waiting for an extended period of time before we can see E-Cats being deployed in industrial settings? I asked Andrea Rossi about this today, and this was his response:

Andrea Rossi
August 15th, 2015 at 8:38 PM
Frank Acland:
Believe me: we are working very strong to prepare the manufacturing in massive quantities of the E-Cats, even if we still have brakes pulled due to the fact that we still do not know if the final results of the tests on course wil be positive or negative. How much time will be necessary, assumed F9>0 ? Not easy to say, but we will not lose time. Somebody will be very surprised about the speed of our action.
F9.
By the way: now it is 09.40 p.m. of Sat Aug 15, I am in the plant, the 1 MW E-Cat is stable, the E-Cat X is still very promising. This shortens of 1 day the distance from the OTS day ( OTS = Off The Shelf).
Warm Regards,
A.R.

So for now, the brakes are on, but from this response it does sound like they are raring to go. It won’t be soon enough for some, but if the tests are successful there will be plenty of work to be done before they can make the plants, ship them, install them, and put them to work. Rossi has said previously said that investment funds have not yet been released to fund mass production, but they will need lots of money if they are going to manufacture ‘massive quantities’ of the E-Cats.

  • Uncle Bob

    That’s just wonderful news. Totally awesome!
    And coming right on the heels of all the good news we got last week it’s almost more than we can bear in such a short space of time.

    I notice he begins the reply this time with an urgent request;- “Believe me:”

    “Believe me: we are working very strong to prepare the manufacturing in massive quantities of the E-Cats,”

    I hope that’s not because he thinks we might be finding this all a bit hard to believe.

    I’m assuming the ability to get factories into production would be because of at least two previous preparations of factories for mass production over the last few years. Having those factories ready and waiting would make a huge difference, so good to hear all that previous preparation will not go to waste.

    I wonder which e-cats will be first into production. It looks like we have a choice of three.
    The original E-cat low temp, which is presently under a 12 month proving test in the 1MW plant, to get figures to assist with certification. Although from what was announced last week it seems the 10 KW E-cat LT’s only ran for two days and are now sitting in standby.
    I don’t think sitting in standby will give the required figures necessary for certification, so probably not that one.

    It could be the new 250KW E-cat LT which is now operating in the 1MW plant, although that’s still relatively new and a couple have given problems, having only first been put to test 6 months ago. Nothing like the long established record of reliable service that the 10KW E-cats have, so maybe not that one either.

    Or, it could be the new super E-cat X (Curried Cat) which has a much higher temperature, much higher everything, and easier and cheaper to produce, plus direct production of electricity. Plus of course, something else.
    Although it’s a bit hard to imagine what the something else might be in the light of what was specifically mentioned.
    It was mentioned last week that this would go directly into production after testing and certification in October, and sale dates were hinted as being in early 2016.
    That’s only 5 months away so it looks like the factories are being planned to set up for these.

    I can hardly wait, but I suppose I will have to.

    • US_Citizen71

      My money would be on the 250 kW low temperature reactors being produced first. With his partner being named Industrial Heat I would assume that their goal is to either produce heat for industrial purposes or to sell devices that do. The 250 kW reactors would do this and fulfill the KISS principle better than the 10 kW reactors would. The 250 kW reactors are likely just larger scale versions of the 10 kW units so if they are not already covered by the safety certification due to their similarity getting a new certification would not be that difficult.

      • Frank Acland

        Yes, Rossi has said recently that they will probably be making their low temperature plants out of 250 kW reactors, rather than the small ones.

        • Uncle Bob

          Do we know anything about the internal configuration of the 250KW unit?
          Is it a group of 20 smaller reactors in the one case or is it one single large reactor?
          The case looks quite small so it’s hard to see how he could fit 20 reactors in such a small case. specially all with their own heaters and sensors etc.
          And you couldn’t run them off the one heater and feedback sensor because it seems the LEN reaction is of a fairly indeterminate nature and therefore needs close individual attention, either by a person or by a computer controller.
          That would tend to indicate it must be a single large reactor, but years ago when it was suggested he make a bigger single reactor unit, he insisted it was not possible. Safety reasons or something.

          I’m sure it’s all very clever and it would be interesting to know a bit more about it.

          • Frank Acland

            Not many details have been provided so far, Bob. Rossi has said that the 250 kW reactors are single reactors, but we don’t know how they are constructed internally. Rossi has said that there is some kind of synergy taking place between e-cats which increases the COP, but again, not sure what that means.

          • Rene

            Years go Rossi had a lot of problems with controlling the reaction. It is why self-sustain back then was short – long sustains led to runaway meltdowns. By his own words, he has said that he and his team spent considerable time increasing the efficacy and reliability of SSM. This is what has led to his success in making high output e-cats.

  • Gerrit

    no wonder, Rossi has fully robotized factories since early 2012 just waiting for the ecats to get ready.

    • That’s what I thought too.
      He’s ready for mass production since years…

    • Jarea1

      Is that ironic? XD

      • I guess yes, it is ironic because Rossi said years ago that his mass production line is ready. Now he prepares a second one. What happened to the first?

        • Alain Samoun

          No questions that if the 1MW plant works,it will be a big success for industries using heat. What I’m more interested in, is the possibility to make direct electricity as Rossi has announced. That will be the paradigm that we all expect and I wonder if Rossi realizes that – If he is right in his announcement – then his success will be bigger that we can imagine: To solve our current problems – Climate,food,water and decent life for 7-10 billions of us – That is threatening our own survival as a human race. We then will need a bigger Manhattan project, this time worldwide, to save humanity. Does Rossi realizes this Frank?

          • Frechette

            I hope you are not implying that the first Manhattan Project saved humanity.

          • Alain Samoun

            No of course,what I mean is that, knowing the urgency, it should be necessary to get the maximum of scientists, worldwide, to work on LENR projects to solve the energy problems once it will be obvious, for all, that LENR is the solution.

          • ecatworld

            I think Rossi understands that his invention could make a huge impact, but I doubt that he has plans to launch any kind of political plan to save the planet. I think he sees his job as to make the technology and get it out into the world.

          • Jarea1

            Again, why no question that the 1MW plant works? Rossi is always saying F9. We all hope that he will deliver but i fear that he will not focus on that and he will start with the new ecat X procrastinating the delivery of the previous one. That would be a disaster and for me a bad indication on the predictability and maybe in the honesty of Rossi.

  • Gerrit

    no wonder, Rossi has fully robotized factories since early 2012 just waiting for the ecats to get ready.

    • That’s what I thought too.
      He’s ready for mass production since years…

    • Satyavan

      A total new product introducing, developing and producing within 5/6 years is extremely short. If Rossi achieving this he is a hero captain of industry and is very rare. Name other product that did the same.

      What is your comment about the Russian, Chinese and Airbus replication of Rossi’s work?

      • Airbus has not done any experiments as far as I know. So no replications except the very doubtable ones you mentioned.

    • Jarea

      Is that ironic? XD

      • I guess yes, it is ironic because Rossi said years ago that his mass production line is ready. Now he prepares a second one. What happened to the first?

  • Well….. Having the orders for an initial 10,00 plus, E-cat, since 20011.
    I think that might help investors to invest.
    If he said there is a robotised assembly plant,
    then I have a tendency to accept his word.
    He has a good “track record” for doing what he sets out to do.
    10,000 plus orders is just a small hand basin compered to the ocean,
    He can bath in.
    ( I hope that explosion in China does not have any effect. Poor souls.)

  • Gerard McEk

    If Andrea wants to blow the E-cats into the market as soon as the counter hits 8 zero’s than now aleady huge investments are needed in big plants, automation etc. Contracts for materials must be in place, staff people need to be prepared and ready when the go signal comes. I do not believe you can start mass production in one day to full production. That takes time and I guess more than a year, maybe even more if you have to build production halls first.
    The E-cat is probably not a complex thing to produce and most things can be out-sourced. Maybe they have contracts ready for this. I can only say: Let’s see and wait.

    • Airbus has not done any experiments as far as I know. So no replications except the very doubtable ones you mentioned.

  • Gerard McEk

    If Andrea wants to blow the E-cats into the market as soon as the counter hits 8 zero’s than now aleady huge investments are needed in big plants, automation etc. Contracts for materials must be in place, staff people need to be prepared and ready when the go signal comes. I do not believe you can start mass production in one day to full production. That takes time and I guess more than a year, maybe even more if you have to build production halls first.
    The E-cat is probably not a complex thing to produce and most things can be out-sourced. Maybe they have contracts ready for this. I can only say: Let’s see and wait.

  • Uncle Bob

    In the lead article, this line looks significant:-

    ” Somebody will be very surprised about the speed of our action. F9.”

    And we know the F9 is shorthand for either positive or negative.
    I wont be at all surprised if he’s proven right on that point.

    • Could someone please tell me what F9 is???

      • Leonard Weinstein

        F9 means the results can be either positive or negative. Thus F9>0 means the results are positive.

        • But what, in its most general sense, does F9 mean or stand for? I’ve seen it appear in a range of blogs.

          • hempenearth

            F9 means that we should remember that the results of the test currently under way, may be positive or negative

          • So are you saying that F9 is a term invented uniquely by Rossi and only to apply to his current test and it has no other meaning in any other context? So, if it appeared in any other blog, essay, book or report about any other subject in any other branch of human understanding, it would be automatically regarded as just a typo?

          • Hador_NYC

            Why are you taking this to an extreme? Its not necessary. Lets keep it simple. Rossi has used F9 as a short hand for his disclaimer on multiple occasions. Any comments or text around or related to Rossi’s work that contain F9 relate to that diclaimer. Any other use of F9 must be considered in its context. For instance many computer programs use the F9 key.

            So I ask again, what is your point in taking it to extreme?

          • – because only by persisting with the question have I been able to elucidate the more fleshed-out answer that you have just provided! Thank you – although first prize should go to US_Citizen71 for providing more of the “historical background” (see above). And, as I indicated in that reply, I wonder if F9 could evolve into shorthand for context-dependent disclaimers. For example, in the context of this post, F9 could mean “IMHO and with all due respect”. In which case, F9.

          • Hador_NYC

            there are better ways to do that.

          • badger
          • Andre Blum

            In text message or whatsapp context, F9 can be shorthand for fine.

      • US_Citizen71

        Rossi has added the disclaimer that the results could be positive or negative for quite some time. Early this year a commenter on the JONP posted that he should program a function key like F9 to type that automatically to save keystrokes. Rossi thought it was funny and begin using F9 to replace the disclaimer in his posts.

        • Ah – thank you! That’s the “historical” background I didn’t know. I did know that F9 is shorthand for fine, as Andre Blum said and that many computer programs use F9 as Hador_NYC said.

          But I was also wondering whether F9 is starting to be used in the wider blogging community as shorthand for “subject to all the usual disclaimers”.

  • oceans

    Dr Rossi is Very confident these days and he will be vindicated, imagine this new power source and its implications to humanity, These are exciting times.

  • US_Citizen71

    My money would be on the 250 kW low temperature reactors being produced first. With his partner being named Industrial Heat I would assume that their goal is to either produce heat for industrial purposes or to sell devices that do. The 250 kW reactors would do this and fulfill the KISS principle better than the 10 kW reactors would. The 250 kW reactors are likely just larger scale versions of the 10 kW units so if they are not already covered by the safety certification due to their similarity getting a new certification would not be that difficult.

    • ecatworld

      Yes, Rossi has said recently that they will probably be making their low temperature plants out of 250 kW reactors, rather than the small ones.

  • bachcole

    And they say that faith has no place in science. There are a lot of people here at e-catworld.com who have a lot of faith in their own conclusions about the E-cat and consequently a lot of faith in Andrea Rossi.

    • Jarea

      That is true and also scary. There is no real prove of Rossi COP other than third person promises. We have to believe in the good progress of Rossi and also in the COP he has announced. On the other hand, MFMP has not been sucessfull yet. :(.
      Is Rossi selling smoke to everyone?

      • bachcole

        I am not agreeing with you in the slightest. It is perfectly reasonable to me that the professors would be telling the truth since they put their careers on the line. In fact, it is unreasonable to think that they put their careers on the line because they were in some kind of conspiracy with Rossi or because they were all incompetent, twice.

        When I said that about faith, I am meaning that I and many others have faith in the content of the previous paragraph, that we have faith in our own reasoning power, that we have faith in Mats Lewan, who also has everything to lose if this turns out to be bogus.

        I have faith that my dogs are not going to eat my face when I am a little late in feeding them. I have faith that the contractor will be here to finish the patio this afternoon at 4:00 P.M. I have faith that there is something of unspeakably ultimate value about consciousness. And when things go wrong, I have faith that life will get better in the near future, especially if I do something about it, like telephone the contractor and ask why he isn’t here yet.

        Faith is all around us. The cheerleader has faith that she is going to be caught. The wife has faith that her husband will be true to her. I have faith in my own out-of-body experience. I could go on and on.

        • Jarea

          Ok ok i agree with you XD

          • bachcole

            The contractor delayed. (:-<)

  • Alain Samoun

    No questions that if the 1MW plant works,it will be a big success for industries using heat. What I’m more interested in, is the possibility to make direct electricity as Rossi has announced. That will be the paradigm that we all expect and I wonder if Rossi realizes that – If he is right in his announcement – then his success will be bigger that we can imagine: To solve our current problems – Climate,food,water and decent life for 7-10 billions of us – That is threatening our own survival as a human race. We then will need a bigger Manhattan project, this time worldwide, to save humanity. Does Rossi realizes this Frank?

    • Frechette

      I hope you are not implying that the first Manhattan Project saved humanity.

      • Alain Samoun

        No of course,what I mean is that, knowing the urgency, it should be necessary to get the maximum of scientists, worldwide, to work on LENR projects to solve the energy problems once it will be obvious, for all, that LENR is the solution.

    • Frank Acland

      I think Rossi understands that his invention could make a huge impact, but I doubt that he has plans to launch any kind of political plan to save the planet. I think he sees his job as to make the technology and get it out into the world.

    • Jarea

      Again, why no question that the 1MW plant works? Rossi is always saying F9. We all hope that he will deliver but i fear that he will not focus on that and he will start with the new ecat X procrastinating the delivery of the previous one. That would be a disaster and for me a bad indication on the predictability and maybe in the honesty of Rossi.

  • I hope that LENR makes big news long before the presidential election, which will be held on November 8, 2016.

    • Steven Irizarry

      What would that do?

      • It will force a dialogue about energy policy. We will see which candidate will support LENR, and which candidates stick with the renewable energy hoax. BIG ETHANOL. BIG WIND,and BIG SOLAR want to keep raking in taxpayer money while forcing us at gunpoint to buy their inefficient products. That is the way the Mafia does business, not the way the US is supposed to operate. We are supposed to be a free market economy, which means no government mandates and no product subsidies. Let the marketplace decide. Which candidates will stick with an energy policy that has been nothing but destructive.

  • I hope that LENR makes big news long before the presidential election, which will be held on November 8, 2016.

    • Steven Irizarry

      What would that do?

      • It will force a dialogue about energy policy. We will see which candidate will support LENR, and which candidates stick with the renewable energy hoax. BIG ETHANOL. BIG WIND,and BIG SOLAR want to keep raking in taxpayer money while forcing us at gunpoint to buy their inefficient products. That is the way the Mafia does business, not the way the US is supposed to operate. We are supposed to be a free market economy, which means no government mandates and no product subsidies. Let the marketplace decide. Which candidates will stick with an energy policy that has been nothing but destructive.

        • Steven Irizarry

          that really wont help…the best way to do it is to create a LENR car and drive it across america

  • oceans

    do not discount deals being made with established heat and air companies like this example:
    Solar Air Conditioner – http://www.lennox.com/products/solar-ready/

    • Paul

      In the Internet slang F9 means “fine”. Rossi is not a guy, but please consider that some times his colleague, the engineer Fulvio Fabiani, a former top level hacker, writes on the Jonp instead of Rossi in reply to more technical inquires… He knows what F9 means, but probably Rossi doesn’t use it properly.

      • ecatworld

        I think they are getting everything in place in the hope that the E-Cat plant will pass the 350 day test. He says right now the brakes are on, because they are not certain that it will pass. But they want to be ready release those brakes as soon as they have a green light.

        I think they have some level of optimism that the test will be positive, but have to accept that something could still go wrong.

        • Paul

          Because he’s sure that the results are positive but according to the agreement with the customer he has signed he cannot officially release information about the test.

        • Jarea1

          That is true and also scary. There is no real prove of Rossi COP other than third person promises. We have to believe in the good progress of Rossi and also in the COP he has announced. On the other hand, MFMP has not been sucessfull yet. :(.
          Is Rossi selling smoke to everyone?

      • timycelyn

        He defined it a while ago on his blog – the mantra “…. final result can still be positive or negative.” became a bit wearing for him to type, and someone joked he ought to find a way of assigning it to a function key like F9 to save himself some time. He said something like “Don’t know how to do that in the software on my keyboard, but from now on when I type F9 that’s what I mean.” He only uses it with his regular correspondents (like Frank) who understand the meaning.

        • psi2u2

          Right.

  • Paul

    In the Internet slang F9 means “fine”. Rossi is not a guy, but please consider that some times his colleague, the engineer Fulvio Fabiani, a former top level hacker, writes on the Jonp instead of Rossi in reply to more technical inquires… He knows what F9 means, but probably Rossi doesn’t use it properly.

    • timycelyn

      He defined it a while ago on his blog – the mantra “…. final result can still be positive or negative.” became a bit wearing for him to type, and someone joked he ought to find a way of assigning it to a function key like F9 to save himself some time. He said something like “Don’t know how to do that in the software on my keyboard, but from now on when I type F9 that’s what I mean.” He only uses it with his regular correspondents (like Frank) who understand the meaning.

  • roseland67

    How can he possibly be planning about massive manufacturing if he is not absolutely sure that the results are “positive”?

    • Frank Acland

      I think they are getting everything in place in the hope that the E-Cat plant will pass the 350 day test. He says right now the brakes are on, because they are not certain that it will pass. But they want to be ready release those brakes as soon as they have a green light.

      I think they have some level of optimism that the test will be positive, but have to accept that something could still go wrong.

    • Paul

      Because he’s sure that the results are positive but according to the agreement with the customer he has signed he cannot officially release information about the test.

    • otto1923

      The pharmaceutical industry does this all the time. They will be spending millions building facilities while FDA approval is pending, because they only have 11 years before patents expire. Lots of times these facilities are abandoned when the product isnt approved.

      • psi2u2

        Right.

    • psi2u2

      The second point is just boilerplate caution about “forward looking statements.” He is obliged by good legal and business practice to say it.

  • psi2u2

    The second point is just boilerplate caution about “forward looking statements.” He is obliged by good legal and business practice to say it.