Rossi Promises a Revolution in the Production System (Larry Jameson)

The following post was submitted by Larry Jameson

A comment and response from the Journal of Nuclear Physics yesterday:

Dr Andrea Rossi:

The National Research Laboratory of the US Navy has published a report in which implies you are the leader of the LENR and cites a long list of potential future competitors of Leonardo Corp. Which of the list you think is more likely to be able to compete with you in the future?
Thank you,
Anonymous

Andrea Rossi
October 3rd, 2015 at 4:42 PM

Anonymous:
As you know, I never comment the work of our real or virtual competitors. Obviously we will have competitors: this is the reason why I will put Leonardo’s products on the market only when our production will have the economy scale necessary to make close to impossible, if not totally impossible, compete with us. You have no idea what I am inventing (F9). It will be a revolution in the production system.

Warm Regards,
A.R.

F9 – refers to Rossi’s standard disclaimer which is “if the results of the one year test are positive but could also be negative”.

Rossi’s Blog: http://www.rossilivecat.com/

I wonder what he might mean by this. Is he referring to flooding the market with his tech or is he referring to some new pricing model for energy or is he referring to possible direct electricity production from the E-Cat X

It sounds exciting whatever it is, almost diabolical, mwah ha ha!

Larry Jameson

  • Owen Geiger

    Rossi loves to keep people guessing. I wonder what it could be. Sounds like he’s planning something beyond the different options that have been discussed here.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I think he is just planning on an unprecedented production volume. IH can mass produce factories. Being global as we know the plans are, there could be many production sites planned.
    Production becomes less expensive with volume and Rossi has already said that there are Billions of dollars in pre-orders expected.

    Dr. Rossi has clearly stated that there will be a revolution in the production system. I believe that this can only refer to an extremely high level of automation.

    • LookMoo

      When it comes to production Mr. Rossi have been somewhat less accurate. 2012 he predicted that 2013 he should make several thousands of the ecat-containers. I think 1 was manufactured ??

      A new robotised factory is not cheap and requires instillation and calibration as well as specialized training of staff. ASEA and other robot manufacturer have their order book full and needs something like 12 months to supply the robot hardware.

      The logistic software required to keep track on all orders coming and going, export and tax documents also needs to be in place.

      What Mr. Rossi is drawing is not less complicated than a car factory.

      • Omega Z

        Rossi timelines. Being either overly optimistic or pessimistic is human nature. Even when I’ve been lucky enough to meet a deadline, it seldom went off without a hitch. Ultimately, what matters is that progress is being made.

        When Corporations like Apple who have a product ready for market 6 months ahead of launch, they usually find that at the last minute, they weren’t really ready. Recall Apple Maps navigation would land you in the middle of a lake among other issues.

        When tackling a Task, I always try & do the hardest part of the Task 1st.
        The rest is easy. NOT. I’ve learned that Easy can sometimes be very hard. Timelines, deadlines are hard to meet.

        “Rossi Promises a Revolution in the Production System”
        http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=4#comment-1122737

        Where does Rossi Promise- How many will hold Rossi responsible for this.
        (You have no idea what I am inventing (F9). It will be a revolution in the production system.
        Warm Regards, A.R.)

        • LookMoo

          The outcome of any project is always somewhere between success and failure. Mr Rossi is open about his plans. Let’s give him a chance without being gullible.

        • Freethinker

          The last 10% somehow always seem to take 90% of the time….

          • Omega Z

            “The last 10% somehow always seem to take 90% of the time.”

            You Optimist you…
            🙂

        • Rene

          SG, on that link, since that report has NavSea logo pasted on all the pages, I decided to check. I cannot find any reference to it from the http://www.navsea.navy.mil site. I’m a bit worried about its veracity.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        robots hardly ever even look like robots in the manufacturing sense.

        Your washing machine,dryer, and dishwasher are examples.

        Simply speeding up regular machines are other possible ways to reduce workforce manpower. i.e. A printing press can go 6 times as fast as 20 years ago, so a pressman job should be 85% more extinct if the demand for printing had remained the same (which it has not).

        Stores no longer require as many inventory checkers, cashiers, accountants, and more thanks to automated checkouts with conveyors and bar code pricing.

        If he is doing a robot plant; i’d imagine it as a conveyor of melted steel casting solid one piece ecats, as opposed to an army of Daleks. With the known Rossi preoccupation with recycling, I’d imagine construction will also be 100% recycled metal.

        • LookMoo

          In his latest statement Mr. Rossi have mentioned ASEA:s line of YuMi assembly robots (human like), if that the way he will go I can’t tell.

          Meanwhile a factory with YuMi:s does not have the same staff composition as a traditional factory. It still have a very complex break-in period that must be finalized before any actual production can take place.

          • Omega Z

            Robotic assembly lines. Once setup, requires very little time to start full manufacturing.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjAZGUcjrP8

          • Frank Acland

            Frank Acland
            October 5th, 2015 at 9:19 AM
            Dear Andrea,

            Do you have anything like this in mind for your E-Cat production? https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=41&v=sjAZGUcjrP8 [your link, OZ]

            Andrea Rossi
            October 5th, 2015 at 9:48 AM
            Frank Acland:
            Something like that, but better.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            Well he has always been a fan of innovation. His sponsorship of a Formula 3 racing team is testimony to that spirit.

            I hope he does well, but the world is poised for another stupendous breakthrough. Then again I still hold out hope for Dr Mills, and a dozen trying to split water rapidly.

            I do not think the ecat meets patent requirements. I think the container (ecat) is less important than the fuel.

            The idea of a PLANT IN CHINA IS RIDICULOUS. I’ll do another post about that, but they will be too heavy.
            i.e. Early models of the ecat were lead to prevent possible gamma. They still have kept shielding despite the known low gamma process. If not so much for the shielding, the containers must not crack or explode under extreme stress.

            Let’s look at the math…
            China manufacturing + Heavy items cost more to ship + Tarifs = Bad Choice.

          • Brent Buckner

            We have been told that IH has rights respective of China and the United States. In light of the respective regulatory regimes, I would not be surprised by a plant in China that would first supply units for installation within China.

            On a value-per-kilogram basis I’m not sure that shipping costs from China to the U.S. would be prohibitive (especially if any required shielding were incorporated at installation sites). Based upon China’s WTO membership I’m also not sure that tariffs would be prohibitive.

            Perhaps IH and Leonardo plan different approaches for their different geographic distribution areas, and much of what we read from Rossi is respective of his plans for Leonardo.

        • clovis ray

          yep, and soon to be emperor, of all things green.

      • clovis ray

        Did you hear or understand anything she said, IH can mass produce factories. Being global as we know the plans are, there could be many production sites planned.
        I would just add, one or more in europe , USA, Australia, China, India, Russia, possibly, Indensonia .

      • Ophelia Rump

        You sound depressed. Cheer up, once they have one factory designed they can duplicate the design endlessly, An Ecat is not as complex as an automobile either. It is actually very simple.

  • EEStorFanFibb

    the navy research labs did what? is this common knowledge?

    • SG

      Would also like to see a link to the Navy report if anyone is aware of one.

  • the navy research labs did what? is this common knowledge?

  • Omega Z

    Roll it Back!
    People already take issue with Rossi’s sometimes overly optimistic timelines. We don’t need to add to that.

    “Rossi Promises a Revolution in the Production System”
    Where does Rossi Promise- How many will hold Rossi responsible for this statement?

    This is what Rossi actually said-
    (You have no idea what I am inventing (F9). It will be a revolution in the production system.
    Warm Regards, A.R.)

    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=4#comment-1122737

  • Gerard McEk

    No doubt Rossi’s first plant is build in China. Maybe not fully automated and cheap working force. Somhow I think he may have started to build the plant and manufacturing equipment of the plant with the money of the investors. By now he, IH, Woodford must be convinced of the potential of the 250kW units. I think they are already building the Ecat manufactoring plant.

    • Jonnyb

      It could be anywhere not just China, I would suspect Europe and the States and highly automated.

    • Omega Z

      Gerard
      I think plans are in the works, but I doubt anything will be started until after the 1 year test is concluded & the results consolidated. There are to many issues that aren’t conclusive until then as far as final business decisions are concerned.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Like a customer who now knows he can reduce his cost for heat to a fraction of what it was before? If the results are as positive as Rossi has been intimating, they are proceeding full blast into production.

        • Omega Z

          I imagine a lot of preliminary investigation has been done as to robotics & various farmed out components for the product. I highly doubt any physical action has been taken nor will it be until after the test has been concluded.

          Many will be interested in this technology, but they will also want some sound answers to their questions. These answers wont be known until after the test is done & fully analyzed. This is precisely why Rossi is stead fast on the (F9). Even if he has his opinions, they are not yet fact.

          There’s a reason they created a 1 year protocol for this test. To determine if it is commercially viable. Merely saving on the energy bill doesn’t make it so. No one is going to invest large sums into a manufacturing facility until they are certain.

  • pg

    The Navy story might be a fake.

    • Hi all

      I am presuming it came from the IEEE event at Teradyne https://meetings.vtools.ieee.org/m/35303 but I too would like to see confirmation from the author, a matter for the attention of Frank Acland 😉

      We know the US Navy has had a black budget LENR project for some time, anti Rossi character Mr. Krivit may have lost his security clearance because he reported on one of their conferences a while back, seem to remember him being castigated for it.

      Other unconfirmed sources put the US Navy black budget for LENR research at $7 Billion. We know that they have an LENR team because some of their research papers and their patents are now public knowledge. Only those who still have a seccurity clearance will know more.

      Kind Regards walker

      • ecatworld

        Although it has been rumored, as far as I am aware there has never been any confirmation that the US Navy was the military customer who got an early E-Cat plant.

    • I got the slides via paul mahler confirmed by Albert Opdenaker
      of DOE (at least he controls a DOE mail address)

      no news about navy working on LENR… an old story.

      • Jarea

        An email in a slide can be changed.

        • to spoof google sendmails is much harder.
          nothing new in those slides, and the LENR commitment of deChiaro and Opdenaker is nothing new.

  • pg

    The Navy story might be a fake.

    • Hi all

      I am presuming it came from the IEEE event at Teradyne https://meetings.vtools.ieee.org/m/35303 but I too would like to see confirmation from the author, a matter for the attention of Frank Acland 😉

      We know the US Navy has had a black budget LENR project for some time, anti Rossi character Mr. Krivit may have lost his security clearance because he reported on one of their conferences a while back, seem to remember him being castigated for it.

      Other unconfirmed sources put the US Navy black budget for LENR research at $7 Billion. We know that they have an LENR team because some of their research papers and their patents are now public knowledge; though by no means do I think all their papers, patents and knowledge are available to the general public, the research teams still exist, it is just that they do not make their research public any more. Only those who still have a security clearance will know more.

      Kind Regards walker

      • Frank Acland

        Although it has been rumored, as far as I am aware there has never been any confirmation that the US Navy was the military customer who got an early E-Cat plant.

    • I got the slides via paul mahler confirmed by Albert Opdenaker
      of DOE (at least he controls a DOE mail address)

      no news about navy working on LENR… an old story.

      see
      http://rossigenerator.com/andrea-rossi/the-rossi-generator-is-now-semi-endorsed-by-albert-opdenaker-of-the-doe

      • Jarea

        An email in a slide can be changed.

        • to spoof google sendmails is much harder.
          nothing new in those slides, and the LENR commitment of deChiaro and Opdenaker is nothing new.

  • Bob

    I restate state my opinion….. “I will put Leonardo’s products on the market only when our production will have the economy scale necessary to make close to impossible” is a folly. (Or that we will never see the Leonard Product) Industrial heaters are NOT that high a volume of product. So there is not enough market to even require a mass production. Yes, there is a lot of requirements, but often they are not one single model, requiring many options. Not lent to mass, mass production. Home Heaters are more mass commodity products, but Rossi is not talking about these. He is talking about Industrial Heaters. There is NO mass market for a single model unit. Is he stating he will not reveal the 1mw plant until home units are on sale?
    .
    Ford Motor Company revolutionized high volume mass production. Ford was very successful. Ford still had MANY competitors and within 10 years, market share was a war of price, innovation and quality. Mass production was not nearly enough to capture the market.
    .
    This is nonsense about becoming the premiere mass production specialist in the world. Concentrate on making the eCat work and be reliable.

    • Omega Z

      –>”Industrial heaters are NOT that high a volume of product.”

      WOW, You Really don’t know how things work.
      Nearly everything around you involved the use of heat. From the food you eat, the clothes you wear. The flooring material in your home to the fabric on your furniture and everything used to build your home. Much of it was processed with heat at multiple stages.

      The market is huge. It would also require only a couple variations. Low/Medium/High temp systems would cover most all needs. As to scale, that merely requires adding additional modules. Like a N-gas furnace, just add additional burners. 2 burners provide 40k Btu and 6 burners make it a 120k Btu. About 20K Btu per burner depending on who’s tech.

      As to Rossi, if you follow JONP, you would know he expects competition. However, if their priced cheap enough, Many will just license IH/Rossi’s technology. It’s simple economics. How much time & millions will it take to create their own technology.

      As to those who would reverse engineer the E-cat reactor, Only to gain an understanding. They will not copy it because it is covered by patent. They will try & create their own technology.

  • Bob

    I restate state my opinion….. “I will put Leonardo’s products on the market only when our production will have the economy scale necessary to make close to impossible” is a folly. (Or that we will never see the Leonard Product) Industrial heaters are NOT that high a volume of product. So there is not enough market to even require a mass production. Yes, there is a lot of requirements, but often they are not one single model, requiring many options. Not lent to mass, mass production. Home Heaters are more mass commodity products, but Rossi is not talking about these. He is talking about Industrial Heaters. There is NO mass market for a single model unit. Is he stating he will not reveal the 1mw plant until home units are on sale?
    .
    Ford Motor Company revolutionized high volume mass production. Ford was very successful. Ford still had MANY competitors and within 10 years, market share was a war of price, innovation and quality. Mass production was not nearly enough to capture the market.
    .
    This is nonsense about becoming the premiere mass production specialist in the world. Concentrate on making the eCat work and be reliable.

    • Omega Z

      –>”Industrial heaters are NOT that high a volume of product.”

      WOW, You Really don’t know how things work.
      Nearly everything around you involved the use of heat. From the food you eat, the clothes you wear. The flooring material in your home to the fabric on your furniture and everything used to build your home. Much of it was processed with heat at multiple stages.

      The market is huge. It would also require only a couple variations. Low/Medium/High temp systems would cover most all needs. As to scale, that merely requires adding additional modules. Like a N-gas furnace, just add additional burners. 2 burners provide 40k Btu and 6 burners make it a 120k Btu. About 20K Btu per burner depending on who’s tech.

      As to Rossi, if you follow JONP, you would know he expects competition. However, if their priced cheap enough, Many will just license IH/Rossi’s technology. It’s simple economics. How much time & millions will it take to create their own technology.

      As to those who would reverse engineer the E-cat reactor, Only to gain an understanding. They will not copy it because it is covered by patent. They will try & create their own technology.

  • Bob Greenyer

    His wafer design lends itself to continuous manufacture – but that I mean the four layers of 1mm steel, fuel, mica and heater layers can be coming of rolls – Cut, crimped and welded continuously.

    • Omega Z

      That sounds very similar to Lithium battery production. The cheapest way to manufacture them, but still not cheap.

  • Bob Greenyer

    His wafer design lends itself to continuous manufacture – but that I mean the four layers of 1mm steel, fuel, mica and heater layers can be coming of rolls – Cut, crimped and welded continuously.

    • Omega Z

      That sounds very similar to Lithium battery production. The cheapest way to manufacture them, but still not cheap.

  • ss dd

    Maybe he will use an e-cat to power his production plant!

    • Owen Geiger

      Wow, that could be it. The way he used the word ‘revolutionary’ implies something beyond robotic production lines, which are fairly common these days.

  • clovis ray

    Dr Rossi, thank you so very much for keeping your loyal fans so well informed , i think this is great, what a great gift this will be, all tied up with a robot assembly line, lol.
    It will be a revolution in the production system. I like the sound of that.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    The idea of a PLANT IN CHINA IS RIDICULOUS. They will be too heavy.
    i.e.
    Early models of the ecat were lead to prevent possible gamma. They
    still have kept shielding despite the known low gamma process. If not
    so much for the shielding, the containers must not crack or explode
    under extreme stress.

    Let’s look at the math…
    China manufacturing + Heavy items cost more to ship + Tarifs = Bad Choice.

    Rossi seems to have always maintained a point of doing the right thing. When he faced charges in Italy he could have hid in America with a Visa handed to him by the President of The United States. Instead he returned to Italy and faced down all his accusers and was not convicted of any fraud charges (except some Income tax evasion, a far cry from the Waste Management scandal he was arrested for ). Apparently it was Mafia related. Surprisingly the Mafia does not just operate in New York. It reaches as far away as Italy. Who would have thunk that the mafia might dislike Andrea Rossi owning a $30 000 000 (USD) Waste Management Company in Italy?

    The point is he did the right thing.

    The President of The united States gave him his VISA. It would be a wonderful tribute to America if he then sent manufacturing Jobs to China.

    I don’t think it makes sense. i don’t think it’s Rossi style. Rossi has style… (Lol)… IF you look at a picture of FABIO and ROSSI side by side they could be twin brothers. Check it out…

    Rossi does not want to give competitive edges to competition. If he was going to work in China why robotize the plant when workers are cheap. Robotizing makess ense int he USA to avoid high wages, unions, etc. heck I’ve thought about buying my own kids a dozen laser CNC machines as a robotized workforce.

    I’d look around any USA University he frequents if any. He probably got sucked into their robot displays.

    some say it is IH that has the reins, but Rossi is excited so he is for whatever they do.

    http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1299196/thumbs/o-OWN-WHERE-ARE-THEY-NOW-FABIO-facebook.jpg
    http://ecat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/04.jpg

    • GreenWin

      Wait just a minute. You don’t mean Waste Management Company founded by Wayne Huizenga?? Why would Wayne wanna control waste 2 energy??? Oh… Nevah mind.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        Maybe it is “Don Rossi”.

    • Hello

      You seem to underestimate the size of the Chinese energy market, its probably as large as the US market by now, and its growing fast.
      The Chinese market alone could make IH and Rossi billioners…

      And the world outside of the US is also a huge market.

      No shortage of opportunities, even if the US government or Big Oil or whoever else succeeds in blocking LENR within the US

  • Brent Buckner

    We have been told that IH has rights respective of China and the United States. In light of the respective regulatory regimes, I would not be surprised by a plant in China that would first supply units for installation within China.

    On a value-per-kilogram basis I’m not sure that shipping costs from China to the U.S. would be prohibitive (especially if any required shielding were incorporated at installation sites). Based upon China’s WTO membership I’m also not sure that tariffs would be prohibitive.

    Perhaps IH and Leonardo plan different approaches for their different geographic distribution areas, and much of what we read from Rossi is respective of his plans for Leonardo.