Rossi: Leonardo 'Warship' Ready With Robotics to Rapidly Produce Low Price E-Cats, 'Burn Out' Competition

Andrea Rossi has said recently that his biggest problem is the size of his potential market, and it got me thinking. The need for energy is universal, and who would not want a source of energy that is much cheaper than what is currently available, and clean and green at the same time. So I asked him about that on the JONP this morning:

“Frank Acland March 25, 2016 at 7:18 AM
Dear Andrea,
You said recently that your problem is the multitude of your potential customers. I think this could be a major challenge, as when people realize what your E-Cats can do, the demand will be huge. You will essentially be starting from nothing, to where you need to be producing millions of units a year immediately to meet expectations. Can you realistically do it? Or should we be prepared for very long waiting lists for delivery of E-cat products?
Best wishes,
Frank Acland

“Andrea Rossi March 25, 2016 at 9:21 AM
Frank Acland:
Leonardo Corporation is prepared and ready.
The deliveries of all the robotized lines will be fast, Rossi added this phrase later [I already signed the MOU] the factory is already ready and I designed the E-Cat QuarkX in a way that will ease the manufacturing, because I have designed it together with the robot experts I am working with and the electronic engineers I am making with the prototypes.
Leonardo Corporation is ready, do not worry. We will be very fast with the distribution, because we want to burn out ALL our possible competitors, whose only strategy I can see is hope to be ready to copy our products, pretending they will have invented them. They will be beaten in two fronts: patent violation and price: Leonardo Corporation will start immediately with very low prices, due to the massive production they will not be ready to do. I have pretty good intelligence about all what is happening around, what really is behind the chatters and there is nobody ready with any structure necessary to compete with us, let alone a product. Leonardo Corporation will have warships, they will have paper ships, made of the same substance of my paper ships I used to make and test in the fountain of the zoo of Milan ( Milano, Italy ) when I was 4 years old.

Rossi added this sentence later:

This having been said, I must add that there is also some competitor that is working very seriously and upon technology really different from ours: but they don’t talk, as I did until 2011.

F8, F9.
Warm Regards, A.R.”

Rossi is saying here that all the necessary preparations have been made. He has mentioned before that the robotics partner he has been working with is ABB Robotics who are one of the most advanced Robotics countries in the world with much experience in making automated manufacturing lines.

He seems confident that the low-cost/rapid distribution strategy will make it impossible for him to be matched by competitors. I wonder if he sees the other companies that are being supported by Industrial Heat/Lux Energy as his main competitors.

  • Frank, can you please ask Rossi if his factory already produced some reactors, only based on the work of robotics, which worked afterwards?

    Short: If they did test the factory, whether it can manufacture working ecats.

    Only when he answer this question with “yes” Rossi can conclude that they are “ready”.

    • Frank Acland

      I’m pretty sure the answer will be no. According to AR, so far they have only made three quarks which are under test in the Leonardo lab.

      • Then I don’t understand how he can talk about being ready.
        Setting up, configuring and fine tuning the robotics will take months until it works proper enough to say “ready”.

        • Zeddicus23

          Since Rossi has supposedly been working for months if not years on the robotics for similar designs, then I imagine that it should not be too difficult to adapt this work to take into account the modifications needed for the QuarkX. But perhaps I’m being overly optimistic or gullible, or assuming more foresight on his part than might be expected.

        • Zeddicus23

          Of course, I expect that configuring and fine-tuning the robotics will still take months.

    • artefact

      The robots are not delivered yet. With factory I think he means the building itself what else is necessary.

  • Frank, can you please ask Rossi if his factory already produced some reactors, only based on the work of robotics, which worked afterwards?

    Short: If they did test the factory, whether it can manufacture working ecats.

    Only when he answer this question with “yes” Rossi can conclude that they are “ready”.

    • Frank Acland

      I’m pretty sure the answer will be no. According to AR, so far they have only made three quarks which are under test in the Leonardo lab.

      • Then I don’t understand how he can talk about being ready.
        Setting up, configuring and fine tuning the robotics will take months until it works proper enough to say “ready”.

        • Zeddicus23

          Since Rossi has supposedly been working for months if not years on the robotics for similar designs, then I imagine that it should not be too difficult to adapt this work to take into account the modifications needed for the QuarkX. But perhaps I’m being overly optimistic or gullible, or assuming more foresight on his part than might be expected.

        • Zeddicus23

          Of course, I expect that configuring and fine-tuning the robotics will still take months.

      • ggooggllee anmeldezwang

        You see me confused.
        3 quarks 100 W each is like 3 candles = nothing.
        Only weeks ago it were 3 EcatX with 3.500 W each.

    • artefact

      The robots are not delivered yet. With factory I think he means the building itself what else is necessary.

  • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

    I am rather skeptical of the robotics. Rossi has previously talked about roboticised factories that never came about. I’ll believe it when i see pictures.

  • NCY

    I am rather skeptical of the robotics. Rossi has previously talked about roboticised factories that never came about. I’ll believe it when i see pictures.

  • artefact

    Frank, he updated his answer a bit..

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks, I added it to the post above:

      “This having been said, I must add that there is also some competitor that is working very seriously and upon technology really different from ours: but they don’t talk, as I did until 2011.”

      • artefact

        And more on the top: “.. I already signed the MOU ..” and the part about the electronic engineers 🙂

        • Frank Acland

          Thanks very much!

          • wpj

            But why is it Leonardo and not IH that is doing the production? Surely IH are the ones with the deep pockets and the team to put everything together.

          • NCkhawk

            Guys – I hate to say this but this is sounding more and more like a breakout scheme to take a large number of deposits in a short amount of time. If that is what actually happens then those complicit, by hook or by crook, will be investigated along with the scamster-in-chief and will be forced to spend lawyerly sums clearing their names. Everyone promoting Rossi should demand proof that a quark even exists then, if yes, proof that it works. If I’m right, somebody Is going to jail. If I’m wrong then fantastic.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            That assumes IH or Rossi takes money for orders.

            Rossi has not taken money for orders and has not promised any kind of timeframe. So really nothing here until people actually engage in a contract that has a legal offer and
            consideration.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • NCkhawk

            How do you know that Rossi has not taken deposits? I wonder if Roger Green is taking deposits or even if there is anyone foolish enough to give him one? Do you think that Rossi will proceed with “production” without deposits?

          • Albert D. Kallal

            I actually don’t know. Certainly Rossi has stated that he received many orders and requests, but I not aware of deposits being taken for the ecat-x

            Once deposits are taken, then yes, most certainly legal binding contracts exist.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Frank Acland

            AR has said he has not taken any deposits for any pre-orders.

          • Paul Smith

            Yes, and Dr. Rossi doesn’t accept money from non professional investors:

            “Andrea Rossi
            March 18, 2016 at 1:11 PM
            Italo R.:
            It is still too dangerous for common People invest in us; we must wait for our product to be sold massively in the market to be sure that we can accept money from non professional investors; when we will be able to sell massively our E-Cats, Leonardo Corporation will go public. We are beginning to prepare for this, but, again, until our E-Cats will not be in the market I want not to play American foot-ball with your bones.
            F8, F9.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.”

          • psi2u2

            NCkhawk missed the memo.

          • US_Citizen71

            I’m on the reservation list for the consumer models there has been no contact since the first email acknowledging me being added to the list. I was not asked for any money and was told that no money would be asked for until product was ready to ship. That’s how I personally know.

          • NT

            Yep, same here with myself, anxiously awaiting that contract notice to purchase my home units…

          • psi2u2

            That was my experience also.

          • HS61AF91

            me three

          • radvar

            How do we know that the dark side of the moon is not made of green cheese? How do you know that giving Rossi a deposit constitutes foolishness?

            Of course, not being able to answer these questions definitely means there is something very suspicious going on, so please continue contributing your valuable insights.

            Oh, that’s right, I forgot my favorite new phrase: “Personal attacks are a way of diverting attention from one’s own weak knowledge.”

          • NCkhawk – I hate to say this but your unrelentingly negative and rather desperate comments are making you sound more and more like a troll from ECN.

          • radvar

            Wow. We haven’t had a troll to smite in so long, I almost forget how.

            But…it’s coming back….

          • Mats002

            The secret 1 MW plant customer – I presume the customer is real – must have taken money for orders.

            Against Albert D. Kallal below I claim that IH or Rossi have engaged in contract of legal consideration.

          • Frank Acland

            I think Rossi said that the customer was buying the heat, had not bought the plant

          • Guest

            Hi Frank, have you ever asked AR what his relationship with JM Products is? I know that entity was brought up as the potential customer in a past thread, but never saw confirmation one way or the other.

          • Frank Acland

            No I haven’t. I know he won’t give thee name of the customer so I won’t even try asking. And that’s normally his policy when questions come up about private business relationships. But it’s easy to post a question on the JONP if you’d like to venture.

          • Mats002

            Heat is what the customer bought, engaged in contract of legal consideration.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Sure, but how that change anything in the context of this discussion?

            So they purchased some heat under contract? How does this change anything stated here?

            We were talking about fulfilling orders placed by people who given money or deposits – not some test plant that’s been running for a year.

            How on earth did such a spectacular grasping at straws here occur here and a jumping of tracks into the 1MW test plant?

            The information we have shows the 1MW plant was delivered and been operation for 1+ years – details of that test and the financial deal changes nothing in regards to those placing orders for a product (and having given consideration).

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • clovis ray

            Frank, every one is asking you to ask Dr r .I would ask that the test plant be memorialized for posterity. you think that could be done.

          • Frank Acland

            I’m not sure what the plans are for it. It could end up in a museum somewhere I suppose. There is a plaque on it to honor Dr. Sven Kullander who passed away before the test was completed, and who AR had a lot of admiration for.

          • Frank Acland

            I ask my own questions and don’t like to ask questions for other people when it’s so easy for anyone to post a question on the JONP.

          • Reminds me of an old Monty Python sketch where an architect-builder was actually a hypnotist-magician. If you stopped believing your apartment was real, the whole building would fall down.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Well, my answer was in regards to general orders to the public and ALSO in the context of the ecat-X. Like anything stated, context is EVERYTHING here!!

            The details, and if money every transferred and that early 1MW plant was delivered is not known to me, so I cannot really comment as such. That early 1MW plant and what occurred to my knowledge is not public knowledge as to what occurred.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Michael W Wolf

            The patent is good enough proof for me. You shouldn’t defame people without proof. Your comments are slanderous. If he is doing wrong, a jury will decide.

          • clovis ray

            Hi, mike
            He just trolling, don’t waste your time on him, i just gave him a neg one, for hate speech.

          • psi2u2

            Your “if I’m wrong then fantastic” sounds pretty formulaic to me. I do think you should be careful about what you say. There is no significant basis for these reckless accusations.

          • LilyLover

            With deep pockets come deep obligations to manipulate Rossi to submit to the will of the corporate overlords working for the “Establishment”.
            Perhaps against his own will, Darden had to backstab Rossi. Now, Rossi, a nice guy, will play nice but will also reserve the right to succeed on his own.
            Hence IH is left with E-CArroT; while Rossi has the direct electricity forbidden apple.

          • Brent Buckner

            IH gets to do things its own way in its territories; we are told it has rights to manufacture and market E-Cats (including E-Cat X) in its territories.

            As to why IH is not manufacturing for Leonardo respective of other territories – could be any number or reasons. Perhaps Rossi wants more control than IH would accept, or perhaps Rossi wants to avoid anyone other than himself/Leonardo holding any global monopoly (or stranglehold) over the technology.

  • artefact

    Frank, he updated his answer a bit..

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks, I added it to the post above:

      “This having been said, I must add that there is also some competitor that is working very seriously and upon technology really different from ours: but they don’t talk, as I did until 2011.”

      • artefact

        And more on the top: “.. I already signed the MOU ..” (MOU=Memorandum of Understanding) and the part about the electronic engineers 🙂

        • Frank Acland

          Thanks very much!

          • wpj

            But why is it Leonardo and not IH that is doing the production? Surely IH are the ones with the deep pockets and the team to put everything together.

          • LilyLover

            With deep pockets come deep obligations to manipulate Rossi to submit to the will of the corporate overlords working for the “Establishment”.
            Perhaps against his own will, Darden had to backstab Rossi. Now, Rossi, a nice guy, will play nice but will also reserve the right to succeed on his own.
            Hence IH is left with E-CArroT; while Rossi has the direct electricity forbidden apple.

          • Brent Buckner

            IH gets to do things its own way in its territories; we are told it has rights to manufacture and market E-Cats (including E-Cat X) in its territories.

            As to why IH is not manufacturing for Leonardo respective of other territories – could be any number or reasons. Perhaps Rossi wants more control than IH would accept, or perhaps Rossi wants to avoid anyone other than himself/Leonardo holding any global monopoly (or stranglehold) over the technology.

  • “factory is already ready”

    Here Rossi is essentially claiming that the year long test was positive. So, Rossi will be proven to be either the greatest inventor of the 21st century or the greatest hypnotist of the 21st century. I hope it is the former.

    • Mike Henderson

      Either way, I am mesmerized.

    • Stephen Taylor

      Well, I hope it’s not deja vu all over again. Seems like only yesterday (2011 actually) Eng. Rossi was promising millions of ecats ready for imminent production in a factory already existing at that time in a secret Florida location. I remain hopeful but Eng. Rossi may be the most optimistic of us all.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        The E-cat (or any version that we have seen) seems a relatively simple device. It is not hard to believe that such device can be manufactured quickly by a robotic line.

        The old E-cat consumed electric power and gave off heat with ratio 6:1. There would have been a domestic market for it, but the lack of certification prohibited it. There is also an industrial market, although it is not very large relatively speaking. Nevertheless, IH was founded to pursue it, but first convincing investors took time, then the 1-year test took time.

        It seems that the game changed in Christmas 2015 when E-cat X started to produce electricity. It opens up the possibility for Leonardo Corporation to make units and run them in large farms and sell the electricity. The game is changed because electricity is much more convenient to sell than heat because transferring it is much cheaper. So they can start mass producing the units without waiting for the certification of the home units.

        • Stephen Taylor

          Pekka, your analysis is very good (as it always is). It has been my great pleasure to benefit from your insight and your knowledge of the science. Thank you for continuing to provide a voice of reason on this most important subject. I do understand the logic of the delay in development time and the importance of electric production. The great hope is for a convincing demonstration soon. There are many reasons this may not happen. Maybe we have to wait for products in the market to be accepted.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Thanks, Stephen.

      • Ryan

        I’m just hoping that list of people that signed up for a home ecat, that Rossi put out years ago, still exists and he gives them a preferential chance to buy in when/if they become available. I signed up for it and would love to be able to distance myself from the local power company, ie not need them at all.

        • NT

          With ya on that because time is not my friend at my age…

          • There are more than a few of us here for whom a 15 year delay could be a problem.

  • “factory is already ready”

    Here Rossi is essentially claiming that the year long test was positive. So, Rossi will be proven to be either the greatest inventor of the 21st century or the greatest hypnotist of the 21st century. I hope it is the former.

    • Mike Henderson

      Either way, I am mesmerized.

    • Stephen Taylor

      Well, I hope it’s not deja vu all over again. Seems like only yesterday (2011 actually?) Eng. Rossi was promising millions of ecats ready for imminent robotic production in a factory already existing at that time in a secret Florida location. I remain hopeful but Eng. Rossi may be the most optimistic of us all.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        The E-cat (or any version that we have seen) seems a relatively simple device. It is not hard to believe that such device can be manufactured quickly by a robotic line.

        The old E-cat consumed electric power and gave off heat with ratio 6:1. There would have been a domestic market for it, but the lack of certification prohibited it. There is also an industrial market, although it is not very large relatively speaking. Nevertheless, IH was founded to pursue it, but first convincing investors took time, then the 1-year test took time.

        It seems that the game changed in Christmas 2015 when E-cat X started to produce electricity. It opens up the possibility for Leonardo Corporation to make units and run them in large farms and sell the electricity. The game is changed because electricity is much more convenient to sell than heat because transferring it is much cheaper. So they can start mass producing the units without waiting for the certification of the home units.

        • Stephen Taylor

          Pekka, your analysis is very good (as it always is). It has been my great pleasure to benefit from your insight and your knowledge of the science. Thank you for continuing to provide a voice of reason on this most important subject. I do understand the logic of the delay in development time and the importance of electric production. The great hope is for a convincing demonstration soon. There are many reasons this may not happen. Maybe we have to wait for products in the market to be accepted.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Thanks, Stephen.

          • clovis ray

            There will be no more demonstrations, period

      • Ryan

        I’m just hoping that list of people that signed up for a home ecat, that Rossi put out years ago, still exists and he gives them a preferential chance to buy in when/if they become available. I signed up for it and would love to be able to distance myself from the local power company, ie not need them at all.

        • NT

          With ya on that because time is not my friend at my age…

          • There are more than a few of us here for whom a 15 year delay could be a problem.

  • BadgerWI

    I so hope he is for real. I feel like we are the verge of something great in human history…There is part of me that reads about vast robot factories just waiting to go and I can’t help but think of the movie “The Bunker” And Hitler sending in Divisions that only existed in his own mind. I hope the worry wart part of my brain is wrong but until he actually does something it will be a very loud voice in my head.

  • “This having been said, I must add that there is also some competitor that is working very seriously and upon technology really different from ours: but they don’t talk, as I did until 2011.”

    Does anyone remember the name of the competitor that Rossi once said was doing “good work” and that Rossi’s replication team was able to duplicate with positive results? He said that work was the only one his team could verify from the many competitor patent applications they experimented with. I believe it was a professor somewhere.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Brian Ahern.

      • g

        Hasnt b. Ahern been crucifying rossi and parkhomov?

        • It is someone with a patent application. I remember Brian, but my memory is fuzzy and I am not sure he is the one. Rossi did say they replicated his work and it worked.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I think the one with the patent was Piantelli, see here:

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/09/30/piantelli-european-patent-revoked/

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Brian Ahern was the one mentioned by Rossi:

            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=853&cpage=3#comment-976936

            “Therefore I want to say sound and clear: we have replicated all the
            existing patents and know hows regarding the LENR existing in the world
            and no one of them has manifested a real heat excess with the following
            exceptions: Ikegami-Petterson system and Brian Ahern System. These are
            the only two systems that actually gave us evidence of a heat excess.
            All the other systems that we have reproduced ( and we have reproduced,
            with huge investments, all of the systems that have been proposed in
            all the world in the last 20 years, with particular attention on the
            experiments made in the last 4 years, that have been analyzed with extreme endeavour) have not given any heat excess evidence. One of them
            had put in the market a “kit” that has turned out to be a joke…”

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I did not speak about the competitor who was mentioned by Rossi.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Ah, ok. But Ahern probably also has a patent, since Rossi said he replicated it. Maybe MFMP should also…

          • It would be rather surprising if they hadn’t, given that Ahern supposedly joined their team (advisor?) two years ago.

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/04/09/brian-ahern-joins-the-mfmp-team/

            A couple of his patents may give an idea of his approach:

            http://www.google.com/patents/US20110233061?hl=fr&dq=ahern,+Brian&ei=2v5_UKz9IcjAiwKwsoGQBw

            http://www.google.com/patents/US5770036

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Yes. Indeed, perhaps someone should try and reproduce Ahern’s patent(s).
            I had forgotten that Ahern was part of MFMP’s advisory team.
            I now sent a question to Bob Greenyer about this on quantumheat.org.

          • No. That is not the guy. I think it was an American and the process was much different than Rossi’s device, so there is no patent conflict. Frank should remember. The post is still in the archives unless it has been deleted. He said the guy “does not need my help” because he understands what is going on and has done such good work himself. It may be one of the platinum- deuterium experimenters, but I can’t remember. I should have saved that post.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Google is your friend, limit search by site:journal-of-nuclear-physics.com

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Please see my answer to Pekka below.

          • Brent Buckner

            Fine, just seemed to me that you’d wandered from the points about “scamster-in-chief” – Michael Wolf above invoked the patent respective of a functioning LENR device (“proof”), not a sustainable business advantage.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          It is Ahern and Rossi has said it many times. One is this:
          http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=879&cpage=16#comment-1097437

          And yes, Ahern has been very dismissive and impolite towards Rossi. But that’s another matter.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        It seems to me that the real competitor to Russia can be Godes and Brillouin firm. Are tested reactor cop = 4. In this case the reactor is not used, the reaction between protons and lithium.

        • Fedir Mykhaylov

          Incorrect translation of Google, instead of the Russian-Rossi

  • “This having been said, I must add that there is also some competitor that is working very seriously and upon technology really different from ours: but they don’t talk, as I did until 2011.”

    Does anyone remember the name of the competitor that Rossi once said was doing “good work” and that Rossi’s replication team was able to duplicate with positive results? He said that work was the only one his team could verify from the many competitor patent applications they experimented with. I believe it was a professor somewhere.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Brian Ahern.

      • g

        Hasnt b. Ahern been crucifying rossi and parkhomov?

        • It is someone with a patent application. I remember Brian, but my memory is fuzzy and I am not sure he is the one. Rossi did say they replicated his work and it worked.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I think the one with the patent was Piantelli, see here:

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/09/30/piantelli-european-patent-revoked/

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Brian Ahern was the one mentioned by Rossi:

            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=853&cpage=3#comment-976936

            “Therefore I want to say sound and clear: we have replicated all the
            existing patents and know hows regarding the LENR existing in the world
            and no one of them has manifested a real heat excess with the following
            exceptions: Ikegami-Petterson system and Brian Ahern System. These are
            the only two systems that actually gave us evidence of a heat excess.
            All the other systems that we have reproduced ( and we have reproduced,
            with huge investments, all of the systems that have been proposed in
            all the world in the last 20 years, with particular attention on the
            experiments made in the last 4 years, that have been analyzed with extreme endeavour) have not given any heat excess evidence. One of them
            had put in the market a “kit” that has turned out to be a joke…”

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I did not speak about the competitor who was mentioned by Rossi.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Ah, ok. But Ahern probably also has a patent, since Rossi said he replicated it. Maybe MFMP should also…

          • It would be rather surprising if they hadn’t, given that Ahern supposedly joined their team (advisor?) two years ago.

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/04/09/brian-ahern-joins-the-mfmp-team/

            In addition to the small amount of info on that thread, a couple of his patents may give an idea of his approach:

            http://www.google.com/patents/US20110233061?hl=fr&dq=ahern,+Brian&ei=2v5_UKz9IcjAiwKwsoGQBw

            http://www.google.com/patents/US5770036

            The first one, in which a suspension in a dielectric material of deuterated nanoparticles between electrodes is driven by pulsed DC current to produce excess heat, sounds somewhat similar in principle to what we (think we) know of e-cat X (other than the use of H2/D2 rather than H2 alone).

            Rossi may well be using a quite similar ‘suspension’ (powder mix) of nickel, LAH and possibly a catalyst and/or inert carrier between electrodes (the steel plates). A pulsed DC ‘driver’ also seems quite likely, so it’s possible they may be working on essentially the same device.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Yes. Indeed, perhaps someone should try and reproduce Ahern’s patent(s).
            I had forgotten that Ahern was part of MFMP’s advisory team.
            I now sent a question to Bob Greenyer about this on quantumheat.org.

          • No. That is not the guy. I think it was an American and the process was much different than Rossi’s device, so there is no patent conflict. Frank should remember. The post is still in the archives unless it has been deleted. He said the guy “does not need my help” because he understands what is going on and has done such good work himself. It may be one of the platinum- deuterium experimenters, but I can’t remember. I should have saved that post.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Google is your friend, limit search by site:journal-of-nuclear-physics.com

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Please see my answer to Pekka below.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          It is Ahern and Rossi has said it many times. One is this:
          http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=879&cpage=16#comment-1097437

          And yes, Ahern has been very dismissive and impolite towards Rossi. But that’s another matter.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        It seems to me that the real competitor to Russia can be Godes and Brillouin firm. Are tested reactor cop = 4. In this case the reactor is not used, the reaction between protons and lithium.

        • Fedir Mykhaylov

          Incorrect translation of Google, instead of the Russian-Rossi

  • clovis ray

    Hi, Guys,
    Again,’wow’, wow, wow, more great news, thanks Frank, and Dr.R, you just made my day,

  • clovis ray

    Hi, Guys,
    Again,’wow’, wow, wow, more great news, thanks Frank, and Dr.R, you just made my day,
    Well, boys and girls, looks like we will be getting an e-cat sooner than anticipated. just had a thought, about vineyards in the deserts , and crops grown underground in old mine shafts and the like. by by world hunger, SMILING REAL BIG.

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    The idea of the complexity of e-Cat X can be understood by considering the hot cat version tested in Lugano. Having no idea about robotic production lines, I expect, that the production line for e-CAT X will be something similar to a rotary assembly line for the production of syringes, nothing more difficult.

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    The idea of the complexity of e-Cat X can be understood by considering the hot cat version tested in Lugano. Having no idea about robotic production lines, I expect, that the production line for e-CAT X will be something similar to a rotary assembly line for the production of syringes, nothing more difficult.

  • pg

    But they don’t talk, as I did until 2011. Translation: I am 5 years ahead of them.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Actually, you missing the BIG point here! Rossi is talking about a MAJOR competitor to LENR and it is a technology that is NOT based on LENR. I have no idea what this is, but Rossi is clearly aware of other energy technologies. So while it great and Rossi confident he is 5 years ahead of “someone”, the HUGE story here is another energy technology exists that Rossi feels could be a direct competitor to LENR. Someone should ask Rossi what that other technology is?

      Regards,

      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Gryphon

        Could he mean BLP and their system extracting energy from water?

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Doubt it – those guys have NOT remained silent, and they are IMHO still a circus show. So it someone who is not speaking public right now.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • LilyLover

          Yes, it is BLP.
          You’ll see.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        I think Rossi said of the direct competitor in LENR sources of energy but by using other technological principles.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Yes, that’s how I understood it also.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Very good – recent comments above confirm this – it is a LENR company, but one that not spoken in public.
          R
          Albert

      • Michael W Wolf

        Why are you here? We are not here to discuss the legitimacy. You should go to a Skeptics blog. Or go to some hot fusion blogs and complain about how they have stolen hundreds of billions from the public and have given us nothing. It’s like you are complaining about a lit match while your house is burning down.

        • Frank Acland

          Yes that’s true, the comments are normally not very relevant to the posted articles. Most of the discussion takes place in whatever the most recent article is, and the most recent one has over 3000 comments. But still AR is normally quite happy to respond to whomever posts a question, so long as it is not trolling or about super-sensitive information.

          Honestly I don’t think he gives me any different information on the JONP than he would to any other questioner. You can make up any name you like. Here’s the current thread — scroll down and leave your question as a comment if you want.

          http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892#comments

        • DrD

          Perhaps he’s on that list that AR said his lawyers were compiling. I look forward to that.

  • pg

    But they don’t talk, as I did until 2011. Translation: I am 5 years ahead of them.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Actually, you missing the BIG point here! Rossi is talking about a MAJOR competitor to LENR and it is a technology that is NOT based on LENR. I have no idea what this is, but Rossi is clearly aware of other energy technologies. So while it great and Rossi confident he is 5 years ahead of “someone”, the HUGE story here is another energy technology exists that Rossi feels could be a direct competitor to LENR. Someone should ask Rossi what that other technology is?

      Regards,

      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Gryphon

        Could he mean BLP and their system extracting energy from water?

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Doubt it – those guys have NOT remained silent, and they are IMHO still a circus show. So it someone who is not speaking public right now.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • LilyLover

          Yes, it is BLP.
          You’ll see.

      • john M

        A couple of ideas come to mind; Dr. Rossi is more aware of a competitors work than all of us “gawkers” and there are viable competitors! One way or another our energy future is assured and bright. Makes me want to continue watching what happens next.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        I think Rossi said of the direct competitor in LENR sources of energy but by using other technological principles.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Yes, that’s how I understood it also.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Very good – recent comments above confirm this – it is a LENR company, but one that not spoken in public.
          R
          Albert

  • I guess he will present something of this at his press conference in Stockholm, that is planned in connection to New Energy World Symposium (if I will be able to confirm the symposium). The HQ of ABB is in Switzerland, but ASEA, which is the A in Asea Brown Bovery, had its main office in Västerås in Sweden, and that’s still an important ABB node. BTW, Harry Frank, former head of R&D at ABB, is featured as a speaker at the symposium. Getting interesting…

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks, Mats — so Rossi’s press conference is planned for Stockholm also? That will be convenient for conference attendees. Try not to schedule a conference session to conflict with Rossi’s conference!

      • Yes, since Rossi is planned to attend the symposium, it should be in Stockholm, as far as I know. And I already had the request to plan to avoid conflict in time. But first, let’s see if I can confirm the symposium…

        • Frank Acland

          Thanks Mats, yes — lets hope we get results from the 1MW plant test soon.

        • Isn’t it a indirect confirmation for positive results that Rossi said he will attend your sympositum, which itself will only take place when Rossi’s plant worked successful?

          😉

        • Sam

          In my calendar, your symposium is the most important event of the year, even more important than ICCF in Japan.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Rossi certainly seems at a high confidence level right now.

      Of course, we watching this in “real” time, so there likely still a few years before production
      starts.

      I like to call this the wedding effect.

      You attending a wedding, eat the food and have fun, but you are totally un-aware of the MONTHS of planning that went into preparing that wedding. Same goes for when people
      line up around the block to purchase the next iPhone.

      I do think when brochures and sales start of LENR products, people will be stunned and shocked! And they will line up like people do for the iPhone.

      However for us here, this will be much like watching paint dry, or watching someone planning a
      wedding in real time – it simply going to take time. It not practical or reasonable
      to see or realize mass produced LENR products in the next year timeframe.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • clovis ray

        HI Albert, you have to remember, Dr. R has been working on this along time, he didn’t just start yesterday. he can also multitask, this has been planed for a while,
        and guys he will probably have an slid in reactor, so the rest of the xcat can be contracted out, then brought back to the robo factory, for final construction, and test, before delivery.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          No question that manufacturing and ramp up time can be “relative” short.

          I don’t have the link, but I recall an engineer in the USA that runs a manufacturing company from his one-room apartment.

          The engineer simply sends the CAD design of part “A” to manufacture “A”. That manufacture then ships part “A” off to manufacture “B” and so on down the road.

          When done, the final manufacture ships ff the product to the customer. With the internet, and fantastic CAD systems, this is not only possible, but quite easy today! This results in a one person operation without a factory to produce and deliver manufactured goods to people!

          The above part is NOT the difficult part.

          The simple matter is that the new ecat-X will need a good year of testing to vet out a reliable design that can be mass produced. You cannot send out large numbers of a product UNTIL such time that you have “durable” product with significant hours of testing. So a “iterative” design process will have to occur. You build, test, look for failure points, and then do this cycle over and over until such time you reach a product with required durability and safety.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Rossi has stated they are re-fueling the reactor and they will continue to run it.

          And why would you feel much heat?

          Most of the energy going into the water and being taken away. To be fair, there is a small air conditioning unit on the container wall for Rossi’s unit but heat in such a room is a non-problem.

          A 1 million watt boiler is 3.5 million BTU per hour. A Cleaver Brooks 3 million BTU hot water heater looks like this:

          http://img.mfrbee.com/photo/v2/252411549/COMMERCIAL_WATERTUBE_BOILERS_Cleaver-Brooks_Model_FLX_Flexible_Watertube.jpg

          Of course the above has gas burners. So the $100 question would be?

          Well, given the size of the above 1 million watt heater and boiler system do we find Rossi’s 1MW plant close in size?

          Well yes, looking at the pictures of the 1MW plant, they are rather close and similar in size!

          Ecat 1MW plant Pictures here:
          http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/02/19/new-official-web-site-andrea-rossi-com-pictures-of-the-new-plant/

          In fact the overall size of Rossi’s plant looks to be somewhat larger then that 1 MW boiler. Rossi’s plant being somewhat larger makes sense since control modules and e-cat reactors replace a simple natural gas flames.

          On the other hand, since no natural gas flames are required, then the heat transfer is going to be more efficient and not a lot of waste heat is going to escape into room where the heating system resides. And we don’t have to vent the burned gas outside since there is none (this also causes heating of the room). So the coolant (water) will thus easy remove most of the heat.

          So once again, taking “one small” piece of evidence we have, such as how big would such a hot water heating system be in “relative” size. It is most telling we find BOTH VERY similar and in the same ball park.

          Of course the commercial gas boiler unit likely has
          a larger water reserve whereas Rossi only removing the heat from the system – not storing it.

          I stood beside many a commercial heating systems, and felt little heat since the heat is being used for the building – not the room the heater resides in.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • US_Citizen71

            He doesn’t want to see anything for himself. It is quite apparent he is a MY/Krivit clone. If you give him a formula or equation he will conveniently forget that 1+1=2 if it helps his agenda. He is nothing but a time suck, we all need to not feed the trolls they just comeback for more.

  • I guess he will present something of this at his press conference in Stockholm, that is planned in connection to New Energy World Symposium (if I will be able to confirm the symposium). The HQ of ABB is in Switzerland, but ASEA, which is the A in Asea Brown Bovery, had its main office in Västerås in Sweden, and that’s still an important ABB node. BTW, Harry Frank, former head of R&D at ABB, is featured as a speaker at the symposium. Getting interesting…

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks, Mats — so Rossi’s press conference is planned for Stockholm also? That will be convenient for conference attendees. Try not to schedule a conference session to conflict with Rossi’s conference!

      • Yes, since Rossi is planned to attend the symposium, it should be in Stockholm, as far as I know. And I already had the request to plan to avoid conflict in time. But first, let’s see if I can confirm the symposium…

        • Frank Acland

          Thanks Mats, yes — lets hope we get results from the 1MW plant test soon.

        • Isn’t it an indirect confirmation for positive results, that Rossi said he will attend your symposium, which itself will only take place when Rossi’s plant worked successful?

          😉

        • Sam

          In my calendar, your symposium is the most important event of the year, even more important than ICCF in Japan.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Rossi certainly seems at a high confidence level right now.

      Of course, we watching this in “real” time, so there likely still a few years before production
      starts.

      I like to call this the wedding effect.

      You attending a wedding, eat the food and have fun, but you are totally un-aware of the MONTHS of planning that went into preparing that wedding. Same goes for when people
      line up around the block to purchase the next iPhone.

      I do think when brochures and sales start of LENR products, people will be stunned and shocked! And they will line up like people do for the iPhone.

      However for us here, this will be much like watching paint dry, or watching someone planning a
      wedding in real time – it simply going to take time. It not practical or reasonable
      to see or realize mass produced LENR products in the next year timeframe.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • clovis ray

        HI Albert, you have to remember, Dr. R has been working on this along time, he didn’t just start yesterday. he can also multitask, this has been planed for a while,
        and guys he will probably have an slid in reactor, so the rest of the xcat can be contracted out, then brought back to the robo factory, for final construction, and test, before delivery.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          No question that manufacturing and ramp up time can be “relative” short.

          I don’t have the link, but I recall an engineer in the USA that runs a manufacturing company from his one-room apartment.

          The engineer simply sends the CAD design of part “A” to manufacture “A”. That manufacture then ships part “A” off to manufacture “B” and so on down the road.

          When done, the final manufacture ships ff the product to the customer. With the internet, and fantastic CAD systems, this is not only possible, but quite easy today! This results in a one person operation without a factory to produce and deliver manufactured goods to people!

          The above part is NOT the difficult part.

          The simple matter is that the new ecat-X will need a good year of testing to vet out a reliable design that can be mass produced. You cannot send out large numbers of a product UNTIL such time that you have “durable” product with significant hours of testing. So a “iterative” design process will have to occur. You build, test, look for failure points, and then do this cycle over and over until such time you reach a product with required durability and safety.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • clovis ray

            i just believe all that has already occurred, this data already exist and was gathered during the time that the L/T test plant was being scrutinised, both plants were being tested, as i have it, the L/T cat as well as xcat .

          • Albert D. Kallal

            I much agree in regards to ecat, but not ecat-x

            There simply no information or data on how the ecat-X performs in a commercial environment. Perhaps test information from ecat applies to ecat-X, but that’s pure guessing and speculation at this point in time. Rossi stated he plans to be running a ecat-X next month.

            I don’t see how large scale production of the ecat-X can occur without some considerable testing and design iterations of the ecat-X.
            This fact in no way stops Rossi from starting the process to setup large scale manufacturing of the basic ecat-X components, but we talking over a year from now, and we still will need testing of these new design over many months.

            Regards
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • clovis ray

            Hi, Albert, don’t you remember, just about every time a progress report was given on the L/T cat. he also gave a report on the xCAT. It’s in the archives, look it up.

    • LookMoo

      People seems unable to do the most simple matt, LENR will face a lot of bottlenecks..

      Global car sales are expected to exceed 100 million units by 2020. On top of that you have scooters and trucks. If they go electric each one of these cars needs a LENR charger.

      Worlds total energy out put is about 18.0 terawatts… mostly dirty energy that needs to be replaced. What changes will a 1 million unit out-put of 1 MW eCat/year from a factory do for the grand total.. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

      There are currently over 17 million shipping containers available. If the 1 MW container model is the name of the game that supply will dry up in weeks. Only 2 million new containers are made every year. We needs at least some few hundred million new containers every year to put 1MW plants in.

      LENR will be the biggest business the coming 100 year. I will start to make rubber hammers.

      • LarryJ

        Rossi said that the 1 MW reactor using the quarkx will be closer to 1 cubic meter. I expect the containers will in the end be used for their original purpose, which is shipping.

        • LookMoo

          I’m not sure where in my post I said it must be 20″ or 40″ container (which your answer indicates). In Rossis tests he had packed in a lot of extra stuff in the container used for the test and evaluation. Probably one of the reason they choosed a larger container model that might have giving you the wrong impression.

          I expect that a 10″ container will do fine for a 1MW plant based on the quarkx concept. Provided that there is no extra technical functions necessary (like cooling, remote control, fire suppression systems etc. required by local or national regulations).

          http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/60771/file-26156411-gif/images/10_container.gif?t=1455112661439

          The container concept is attractive as it allow the ECAT to be shipped worldwide in a existing logistic system.

          Generator manufacturer have for years successfully invested in this concept.

          http://www.atlascopco.com/microsites/Images/QAC1250_6.jpg_ac0041412_456.jpg

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    Clearly before Rossi can start producing millions of units he has to provide OEMs with a datasheet so they can start integrating the device into various products. If you were to give a generic consumer the device today most consumers would have no idea what to do with it, no matter how miraculous it is. At some point prior to millions of units being produced OEMs will have to be let in on the secret so they can start building an infrastructure around it.

    • Frank Acland

      They will probably not start out integrating the quarkX it into existing products. I think the first products will be stand-alone energy production plants providing heat and/or electricity and light. But I am sure there will be soon many people wanting to integrate it into all kinds of products and they will need data as you say.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I would plug one cord into the wall to power it, and the other power cord into the wall to power my home, the surplus would spin the meter backward and the electric company would be required by law of my state to send me a check for fair market value of the power at the end of each month.

      What part do you need help with dear?

      • giovanniontheweb

        most probably you will not have any power network anymore and tax will apply directly to your home size

      • NT

        He he, good reply Ophelia…

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          Sigh…

          • psi2u2

            Yes, cue the violins. Poor NCkhawk, still harping on a dead paradigm.

      • DrD

        Well said. Unfortunately for me, they stopped my meter and most others in UK from going backwards. We already export excess solar PV to the grid (for about 1/4 of what we buy it for). Roll on the day when I only export.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    Clearly before Rossi can start producing millions of units he has to provide OEMs with a datasheet so they can start integrating the device into various products. If you were to give a generic consumer the device today most consumers would have no idea what to do with it, no matter how miraculous it is. At some point prior to millions of units being produced OEMs will have to be let in on the secret so they can start building an infrastructure around it.

    • Frank Acland

      They will probably not start out integrating the quarkX it into existing products. I think the first products will be stand-alone energy production plants providing heat and/or electricity and light. But I am sure there will be soon many people wanting to integrate it into all kinds of products and they will need data as you say.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I would plug one cord into the wall to power it, and the other power cord into the wall to power my home, the surplus would spin the meter backward and the electric company would be required by law of my state to send me a check for fair market value of the power at the end of each month.

      What part do you need help with dear?

      I hope you noticed the part where the electric output power gets plugged into the same wall socket as the electrical input power plug.

      • giovanniontheweb

        most probably you will not have any power network anymore and tax will apply directly to your home size

      • NT

        He he, good reply Ophelia…

      • DrD

        Well said. Unfortunately for me, they stopped my meter and most others in UK from going backwards. We already export excess solar PV to the grid (for about 1/4 of the inport price). Roll on the day when I only export.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    Clearly there are a number of things that have to be considered when scaling up to produce a large number of units. Some critical questions have to be answered about the nature of the manufactured item and all of the related processes. I think there are two key questions:
    1). Does the manufacture of the component require a new process or is it consistent with similarly manufactured items?
    2). Are there readily available sources of all of the materials (and equipment to process the materials) that can deliver the goods in a short time?

    For (1) above, if the casing is a simple metal part made by stamping, forming, and welding sheet metal all of the equipment and machinery exists. Simply contract out the fabrication initially and build your own facility when scale and volume make it cost-effective.

    For (2), iI think the “secret sauce” of the fuel process might best be kept in-house. If so, do raw material suppliers have the ability to deliver the materials and does the recipe involve existing equipment, or does new equipment have to be developed?

    Examples of production extremes: Electronic assemblies can be provided in a matter of weeks at volume given the existence of processing equipment and a number of competitive suppliers who can do the work. I can send an electronic file describing the assembly and get finished parts back in a very short time. On the other hand, manufacturing facilities have to be designed (usually custom) and take a long time to complete. Example: my brother once told me that Johns Manville took 9 months to expand a fiberglass line at the time of a building boom with energy efficient housing given that they already had similar plants in operation. That was quite quick.

    I taught Automation and Robotics at a technical college. Final unit assembly by robots usually follows hand assembly until volume builds. I recall one of my students working at a Generac plant where the Y2K “scare” had people buying emergency power generators. Generac was able to scale up production in short order to meet demand.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    Clearly there are a number of things that have to be considered when scaling up to produce a large number of units. Some critical questions have to be answered about the nature of the manufactured item and all of the related processes. I think there are two key questions:
    1). Does the manufacture of the component require a new process or is it consistent with similarly manufactured items?
    2). Are there readily available sources of all of the materials (and equipment to process the materials) that can deliver the goods in a short time?

    For (1) above, if the casing is a simple metal part made by stamping, forming, and welding sheet metal all of the equipment and machinery exists. Simply contract out the fabrication initially and build your own facility when scale and volume make it cost-effective.

    For (2), iI think the “secret sauce” of the fuel process might best be kept in-house. If so, do raw material suppliers have the ability to deliver the materials and does the recipe involve existing equipment, or does new equipment have to be developed?

    Examples of production extremes: Electronic assemblies can be provided in a matter of weeks at volume given the existence of processing equipment and a number of competitive suppliers who can do the work. I can send an electronic file describing the assembly and get finished parts back in a very short time. On the other hand, manufacturing facilities have to be designed (usually custom) and take a long time to complete. Example: my brother once told me that Johns Manville took 9 months to expand a fiberglass line at the time of a building boom with energy efficient housing given that they already had similar plants in operation. That was quite quick.

    I taught Automation and Robotics at a technical college. Final unit assembly by robots usually follows hand assembly until volume builds. I recall one of my students working at a Generac plant where the Y2K “scare” had people buying emergency power generators. Generac was able to scale up production in short order to meet demand.

  • NCkhawk

    Guys – I hate to say this but this is sounding more and more like a breakout scheme to take a large number of deposits in a short amount of time. If that is what actually happens then those complicit, by hook or by crook, will be investigated along with the scamster-in-chief and will be forced to spend lawyerly sums clearing their names. Everyone promoting Rossi should demand proof that a quark even exists then, if yes, proof that it works. If I’m right, somebody Is going to jail. If I’m wrong then fantastic.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      That assumes IH or Rossi takes money for orders.

      Rossi has not taken money for orders and has not promised any kind of timeframe. So really nothing here until people actually engage in a contract that has a legal offer and
      consideration.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • NCkhawk

        How do you know that Rossi has not taken deposits? I wonder if Roger Green is taking deposits or even if there is anyone foolish enough to give him one? Do you think that Rossi will proceed with “production” without deposits?

        • Albert D. Kallal

          I actually don’t know. Certainly Rossi has stated that he received many orders and requests, but I not aware of deposits being taken for the ecat-x

          Once deposits are taken, then yes, most certainly legal binding contracts exist.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Frank Acland

            AR has said he has not taken any deposits for any pre-orders.

          • Paul Smith

            Yes, and Dr. Rossi doesn’t accept money from non professional investors:

            “Andrea Rossi
            March 18, 2016 at 1:11 PM
            Italo R.:
            It is still too dangerous for common People invest in us; we must wait for our product to be sold massively in the market to be sure that we can accept money from non professional investors; when we will be able to sell massively our E-Cats, Leonardo Corporation will go public. We are beginning to prepare for this, but, again, until our E-Cats will not be in the market I want not to play American foot-ball with your bones.
            F8, F9.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.”

        • US_Citizen71

          I’m on the reservation list for the consumer models there has been no contact since the first email acknowledging me being added to the list. I was not asked for any money and was told that no money would be asked for until product was ready to ship. That’s how I personally know.

          • NT

            Yep, same here with myself, anxiously awaiting that contract notice to purchase my home units…

          • psi2u2

            That was my experience also.

          • HS61AF91

            me three

    • NCkhawk – I hate to say this but your unrelentingly negative and often rather desperate comments are making you sound more and more like a troll from ECN.

      • NCkhawk

        That’s it – keep the blinders on. I’m in search of truth. The desperation is on behalf of the Rossi followers who hang on his everyone word with ZERO verification. I am willing to learn though – which comment(s) do you consider as desperate on my behalf? I’m open to re-education if you have a good argument. If you look at my earlier posts on this blog – I was cautiously optimistic around Rossi and his technology, especially after IH bought in. That has changed with Rossi’s light speed pace of evolution over the past 4 months – it is not humanly possible for 1 engineer with 2 or 3 helpers to pull all of this off. All I see now is a circus act moving from one ring to three.

        • Michael W Wolf

          Search for the truth? On what you think is a scam site? Who are you conning? You don’t go search out a desert to look for water. If you don’t believe, why are you searching for the truth here? I mean to you, it can’t be here. How about putting your money where your mouth is. How much will you give me if rossi is over unity? I mean you have nothing to lose right? So how much?

          • NCkhawk

            I don’t think this is a scam site at all. I think this site serves a very good purpose. I simply don’t think that every word Rossi types should be believed. Others on this board do not feel that way.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Just be well informed. There really is a lot more to this than Eng. Rossi. He may turn out to be historic, or not. Lenr-Canr.org is serious and important science repository. Many of us here think he may have cracked the nut.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Well, I can’t argue with that. But that was not your tone in earlier posts. But yes, your point is valid.

        • Stephen Taylor

          Your skepticism is reasonable. Unless one has done much research the story seems too good to be true. Recently, the pace of claims has been fantastical. If we start with Piantelli and Focardi then Rossi follows. Also, knowing about Thermacore is helpful. This is just Nickel and Hydrogen, there is much more in earlier work as you probably know. Lenr-Canr.org is the library. Having said all that, the fact remains, you are on the side of most physicists, so congratulations to you.

          • NCkhawk

            The Thermocore study is one of my favorite studies along with many of the BARC reports. The NRL Spawar and China Lake reports have all kinds of gold nuggets within. I’ve been studying the IP and the papers for years now.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Good then, I take it you see an interesting anomaly and await further developments?

          • Stephen Taylor

            BARC?

          • NCkhawk

            Bhabha Atomic Research Center – India. They did some excellent transmutation, electrolytics and plasma research on CF until their funding was cut off in 1996.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          I have to agree that skepticism is reasonable!

          And what the ecat-X can do? This is beyond crazy!

          However, there are several issues and steps required to eliminate the “fog” of war in this regards.

          First up:
          Is LENR real?

          Well, what if an independent news company like 60 minutes went to the American Physics Association and ask them to pick a skeptical Physicist, and the news channel hired that person to look into LENR to see if it is real?

          The story from 60 minutes in 2009 can be found here:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvaX3vRtRA

          The above is MUST watch. And MOST significant is the witness and testimony of that Physicist who came back from a lab in Israel, and said, wow – this actually works.

          With the above, and 100’s of papers around the world having found excess heat, I think it is reasonable to accept LENR as much as we accept we landed on the moon.

          It is certainly possible that we did not land on the moon, and possible that LENR is not real, but they are not REASONABLE positions.

          I think it is reasonable to accept that Julius Caesar also existed, but once again only until evidence is gathered can one accept that Julius Caesar existed.

          Ok, so it quite easy to make the case for LENR.

          And Rossi is NOT required to get this far into the discussion.

          In the case of Rossi? Well, that’s more difficult, but evidence is building day by day based on the actions of OTHERS involved with Rossi or those that purchased the rights to his technology.

          So Industrial Heat purchased rights to Rossi. Rossi stated a once year test would occur. And after ONE year, Industrial Heat made a public announcement in regards to their LENR technology – I doubt such a statement would be made if this is a scam.

          The only real issue left here is how well Rossi’s technology performs, not that has working LENR devices.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Brent Buckner

            Yes. I’ll chip in with Parkhomov claiming to replicate Rossi, and with MFMP claiming an LENR event with Bob Greenyer then explaining how retrospectively he understood it to be consonant with Rossi’s comments about such things as lead thermalizing radiation. Further, Bob Greenyer has gone on to say that features of the E-cat X would clearly follow from his understanding of Piantelli’s theory in the context of MFMP’s results.

          • NCkhawk

            With all due respect, Bob Greenyer is a business or marketing guy who should not be attempting to make science videos. He does not help MFMP credibility in my opinion.

          • Brent Buckner

            Fine. I don’t have anyone other than Bob Greenyer telling me whether or not something like the E-Cat X would clearly follow per Piantelli’s theory so personally I’ll continue to entertain the notion that it may not be as big a leap as it may seem at first blush. YMMV, and clearly does!

          • Bob is doing great. Go Bob Go!

    • Mats002

      The secret 1 MW plant customer – I presume the customer is real – must have given money for orders.

      Against Albert D. Kallal below I claim that IH or Rossi have engaged in contract of legal consideration.

      • Frank Acland

        I think Rossi said that the customer was buying the heat, had not bought the plant

        • NCkhawk

          Now that you bring it up, I wonder what happened to that customer? It seems that the E-Cat 1MW project went suddenly quiet as Rossi jumped to the “Quark”. My guess is that there was no real customer and not a dime changed hands. Would love to see the power bills from wherever this installation was. I just realized that in the LENRIA 2016 calendar picture that Rossi is wearing a jacket while “listening” to his 1MW system – was it that chilly next to that system? The heat had to be huge coming off a 1MW steam generator. A heat protection suit would be needed, not a jacket to protect against the chill. He is in a golf shirt in the other picture. Look at the available evidence folks. It does not add up.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Why are you here? We are not here to discuss the legitimacy. You should go to a Skeptics blog. Or go to some hot fusion blogs and complain about how they have stolen hundreds of billions from the public and have given us nothing. It’s like you are complaining about a lit match while your house is burning down.

          • DrD

            Perhaps he’s on that list that AR said his lawyers were compiling. I look forward to that.

          • NCkhawk

            DrD – now that you bring that up, a lawsuit from Rossi and his lawyers would be highly entertaining. My guess is that his video deposition would be one of the highlights of the LENR story once it gets fully told. He is one of the most impeachable characters that I have ever seen make it this far. No matter which way this goes, the Rossi / E-Cat story is going to be a case study for decades to come.
            I hope he is paying his US income taxes.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Have you ever been in a boiler room? I have been bundeled up and freezing next to many large industrial heat sources. Boiler operators generally live in comfort nowadays.

          • NCkhawk

            Wow – I haven’t seen “JM” as the customer name before. Where did that come from? If you have studied the history of CF then Johnson Mathey (a stretch but worth floating) was an important metals provider who had great interest in the sector in the early days.
            Has anyone on this board ever been in a 1MW boiler room? With a COP of 6 that is the equivalent approx. 200lbs of coal / hour. That would take an industrial grade cooling system to keep everything in order including maintaining pressure and return flow. It is a legitimate question.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Silly again, hard to take you seriously though I am trying. Two local powerplants here are 900+ and 150+ MW. Nobody is being steamed to death as far as I know. Many 1 MW facilities have personnel in close proximity. It is just not an issue.
            Cooling system and return flow are evident since Bologna demo and simply routine. What is this reference to “JM”? I certainly didn’t mention it yet you seem to ask where did I get it?

          • NCkhawk

            Stephen – thank you for making my point. Your local power plants have utility grade cooling systems. Rossi claims he had an air conditioner. I’m saying that is one of the missing pieces of information from this 1MW test that folks just seem to accept as okay. JM was from another post higher up – sorry about that.

          • Frank Acland

            He said he had an air conditioner in the container where the workspace was (there were two containers apparently), not where the power plant was. If you look at the pictures on andrea-rossi.com you’ll see an air conditioner.

          • NCkhawk

            Frank – I saw that and noticed that the heat from the AC cooling the workspace was also pouring into the building that also housed the 1MW reactor. What is cooling the 1MW reactor / building space? It would be roasting everyone the building without one. The AC would be no match for the heat output if it was working as advertised – it exacerbates the problem as pictured. The heat, if it truly being generated and converted to steam, has to go somewhere.

          • Stephen Taylor

            It goes where it is meant to go. It is process steam. The reactors and steam pipes are insulated. The process steam is used to dry or sterilise or cook or otherwise process product. Sometimes the heated product is cooled using large ammonia chillers, sometimes cooling towers and condensers are involved but often residual heat is just vented to atmosphere.
            I have never worked in a fully air conditioned industrial environment. Normally it is hot and a bit steamy in wet areas. Sometimes it can be very cold. In a glass plant the heat is incredible but you get used to it. A 1 MW boiler is really pretty small by comparison. The lost heat in and around the immediate area is minimised and losses are simply vented to atmosphere. For comfort, my understanding is they work in a separate air conditioned control room as was mentioned earlier. It is not the least unusual to vent these small area A/C units to the plant environment which is generally well ventilated.
            Thanks for the reminder about BARC. Memory is not a strong suit here.
            Edit: This non-issue reminds me of the clamor over the size of the visible steam pipes. Turned out the visible pipes are condensate return lines and the roughly 4″ process steam pipe exits the rear of the container. Calculations confirmed the appropriate sizing of the pipe as seen in the Bologna demo video.
            The boiler room in one of the plants I worked in had much larger process steam pipes exiting. It was usually comfortable and the partitioned control room was air conditioned but the large area was just vented.

          • US_Citizen71

            No but I have been in the engineering compartment of a nuclear submarine with a 150MW reactor and it was about as cozy as Rossi’s shipping container. Funny we weren’t hard boiled.

          • sam

            Ready on the left.
            Ready on the right.
            We are ready for the EVR report.

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            Sigh…

          • US_Citizen71

            It seems that you have never heard of nor understand the concept of insulation. It can be put around hot things to keep heat in and increase the efficiency of heat exchange systems like steam generators by preventing heat loss to the environment. It is cutting-edge stuff only been used on steam pipes since the late nineteenth century.

          • NCkhawk

            USCitizen – Rossi shows his insulation strategy in the pictures. If his COP is 6 then he is generating the approx. equivalent of burning 2+ tons of coal per day to make his 24MWh production claimed in the test. The system efficiency and heat exchange also depends on pressures which dramatically shifts system needs up or down. I’m simply saying that I don’t see that he has the engineering built in to the system in the pictures to handle that kind of heat generation. If everyone else on this board does then fine.

          • US_Citizen71

            “Rossi shows his insulation strategy in the pictures.” – Really I guess I missed the cross sectional cutout pictures that show the thickness and type of insulation used around the pipes, reactors and heat exchangers. Can you link to those photos? If you are referring to Rossi standing next to the reactors with a lab coat that just speaks to how well the system is insulated from the environment of the room containing it.

            “If his COP is 6 then he is generating the approx. equivalent of burning 2+ tons of coal per day to make his 24MWh production claimed in the test.” – The reactors do not burn anything, so inference to a system that has insulation problems due to air and fuel intake access and an exhaust chimney matters not. The only holes in the insulation are for the wiring harness and the heat loss there can be combated by engineering such as heat sinks on the wiring harness that dump their heat into the incoming water flow.

            “The system efficiency and heat exchange also depends on pressures which dramatically shifts system needs up or down.” – What does the internal pressures have to do with the R-value of the insulation surrounding the system?

            “I’m simply saying that I don’t see that he has the engineering built in to the system in the pictures to handle that kind of heat generation.” – What is it that you are expecting to be able to see besides the insulation on the pipes coming and going?

            It seems that you are grasping at any straw to build an argument to support your preconceived notion that the room should be hot.

          • NCkhawk

            USCitizen – 1MW of heat is 1MW of heat that must be dealt with no matter what the source. Steam systems, despite centuries of application, take a lot of engineering to design, safely run and keep healthy. There is not enough evident cooling in Rossi’s pictures to handle this kind of heat. That will eventually become self-evident.

          • US_Citizen71

            The 1 MW of heat energy leaves the plant in the form of steam inside of an insulated steam pipe that runs to some outside piece of equipment. That piece of equipment uses the steam heat energy and cools the steam dissipating the heat and condensing the steam back into water. The water then flows back into the plant and is heated back into steam removing more heat energy from the plant, starting the cycle over. What part of that do you not comprehend?

          • Roland

            My guess is that it’s actually the core of the moon that’s made of green cheese and I’ll cling to that view until someone has tunnelled completely through the moon on several axis, without encountering any cheese, till I relinquish one inch of my ironclad position…

            Even then ‘they’ could cleverly fake it just like the dummy ‘moon landings’ so how will I ever know for absolutely sure that I’m wrong about this; besides I’ve never been proven conclusively wrong in any of my baseless conjectures and that’s just the simple beauty of postulating a negative.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Rossi has stated they are re-fueling the reactor and they will continue to run it.

            And why would you feel much heat?

            Most of the energy going into the water and being taken away. To be fair, there is a small air conditioning unit on the container wall for Rossi’s unit but heat in such a room is a non-problem.

            A 1 million watt boiler is 3.5 million BTU per hour. A Cleaver Brooks 3 million BTU hot water heater looks like this:

            http://img.mfrbee.com/photo/v2/252411549/COMMERCIAL_WATERTUBE_BOILERS_Cleaver-Brooks_Model_FLX_Flexible_Watertube.jpg

            Of course the above has gas burners. So the $100 question would be?

            Well, given the size of the above 1 million watt heater and boiler system do we find Rossi’s 1MW plant close in size?

            Well yes, looking at the pictures of the 1MW plant, they are rather close and similar in size!

            Ecat 1MW plant Pictures here:

            http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54e38c6ce4b0b6d75a4175a7/54e3ca09e4b0af154d1539a3/54e3ca33e4b015ce3b5f81b7/1424215065920/ecat+MW1-USA+team+at+working.jpg

            and

            http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54e38c6ce4b0b6d75a4175a7/54e3ca09e4b0af154d1539a3/54e3ca39e4b015ce3b5f8201/1424215217471/ecat+MW1-USA+Andrea+checking.jpg

            additional link:
            http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/02/19/new-official-web-site-andrea-rossi-com-pictures-of-the-new-plant/

            In fact the overall size of Rossi’s plant looks to be somewhat larger then that 1 MW boiler. Rossi’s plant being somewhat larger makes sense since control modules and e-cat reactors replace a simple natural gas flames.

            On the other hand, since no natural gas flames are required, then the heat transfer is going to be more efficient and not a lot of waste heat is going to escape into room where the heating system resides. And we don’t have to vent the burned gas outside since there is none (this also causes heating of the room). So the coolant (water) will thus easy remove most of the heat.

            So once again, taking “one small” piece of evidence we have, such as how big would such a hot water heating system be in “relative” size. It is most telling we find BOTH VERY similar and in the same ball park.

            Of course the commercial gas boiler unit likely has
            a larger water reserve whereas Rossi only removing the heat from the system – not storing it.

            I stood beside many a commercial heating systems, and felt little heat since the heat is being used for the building – not the room the heater resides in.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Omega Z

            NCkhawk,

            ->”A heat protection suit would be needed”
            You have no Idea what your talking about or any real world experience.

            The 4-250KW reactors only take up about 20% of the container.(The rest is filled with the older 52-20KW system that’s not used) The 1MW output would produce approximately 5 gallons a minute of 100`C to 120`C water/steam(+/- 1 gallon dependent on a few variables). An Insulated 1″ to 1.25″ pipe would transfer this amount of heated water or steam quite easily from the container to an exterior exchanger.(Point of use.) There would be little heat dissipated within the container.

            I have no doubt that the temperature of the shipping container does not exceed 110`F in the heat of a Florida summer. However, there are people in a few industries who work 8/12 hour days the year round in 130`F to 140`F temps and they do not wear heat protective gear. Just a pair of jeans and short sleeve or “T” shirts. Some within 4 foot of 3`x3` foot or larger open door of an industrial furnace exposed to (850`C/1600`F).

            As to Rossi’s where about’s, except for periodic physical checks or when issues arise in the 1MW container, he and his team are in a secondary container with workbench, desk and E-cat control systems that has an AC(appeared to be 10K/12K Btu) installed in the side of this secondary container.

            As to the current status of the 1MW plant at this time. If I were the customer, I would be waiting for the upgraded 1MW system with all the issues fixed. With approximately a 6`x6` footprint including all controls. Likely all computer monitored within the maintenance department office. Maintenance personnel dispensed only when there’s an issue.

        • Guest

          Hi Frank, have you ever asked AR what his relationship with JM Products is? I know that entity was brought up as the potential customer in a past thread, but never saw confirmation one way or the other.

          • Frank Acland

            No I haven’t. I know he won’t give the name of the customer so I won’t even try asking. And that’s normally his policy when questions come up about private business relationships. But it’s easy to post a question on the JONP if you’d like to venture.

          • Guest

            Ha, I figured you’d have a much better chance of getting a response than anyone else…

            Plus honestly the JONP confuses me, seems like thousands and thousands of comments just get left on whatever the article at the top of the page is, regardless of whether the comment has anything to do with the article.

          • Frank Acland

            Yes that’s true, the comments are normally not very relevant to the posted articles. Most of the discussion takes place in whatever the most recent article is, and the most recent one has over 3000 comments. But still AR is normally quite happy to respond to whomever posts a question, so long as it is not trolling or about super-sensitive information.

            Honestly I don’t think he gives me any different information on the JONP than he would to any other questioner. You can make up any name you like. Here’s the current thread — scroll down and leave your question as a comment if you want.

            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892#comments

          • Omega Z

            At Guest,

            Regardless under what topic you post to on JONP.
            All questions & answers from JONP can be found at-
            http://www.rossilivecat.com/

            It appears to be updated several times a day.

        • Mats002

          Heat is what the customer bought, engaged in contract of legal consideration.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Sure, but how that change anything in the context of this discussion?

            So they purchased some heat under contract? How does this change anything stated here?

            We were talking about fulfilling orders placed by people who given money or deposits – not some test plant that’s been running for a year.

            How on earth did such a spectacular grasping at straws here occur here and a jumping of tracks into the 1MW test plant?

            The information we have shows the 1MW plant was delivered and been operation for 1+ years – details of that test and the financial deal changes nothing in regards to those placing orders for a product (and having given consideration).

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • clovis ray

          Frank, every one is asking you to ask Dr r .I would ask that the test plant be memorialized for posterity. you think that could be done.

          • Frank Acland

            I’m not sure what the plans are for it. It could end up in a museum somewhere I suppose. There is a plaque on it to honor Dr. Sven Kullander who passed away before the test was completed, and who AR had a lot of admiration for.

          • Frank Acland

            I ask my own questions and don’t like to ask questions for other people when it’s so easy for anyone to post a question on the JONP.

          • clovis ray

            Hi Frank, and i did ask him, and his response was, Clovis Ray:

            Thank you for your kind words and for your attention to our work.

            Your idea is good.

            Warm Regards,

            A.R.

        • Reminds me of an old Monty Python sketch where an architect-builder was actually a hypnotist-magician. If you stopped believing your apartment was real, the whole building would fall down.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Well, my answer was in regards to general orders to the public and ALSO in the context of the ecat-X. Like anything stated, context is EVERYTHING here!!

        edit:
        The 1 customer and the one plant running for a year? I don’t think the details of the “deal” are pubic known, and as noted I don’t think IH purchased the plant. However at the end of the day, if IH purchased the plant, Rossi clearly delivered the plant, so I am at a loss as to how this effects anything I stated.

        And I don’t think IH (or the customer) placed a “order” for a plant, but made a deal to purchase heat. However once again, we were talking about taking orders for a plant, not a 1 year test project. Even if IH or the customer purchased the plant, I doubt they placed a order, but were in fact approached to test + try a plant for a year.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Michael W Wolf

      The patent is good enough proof for me. You shouldn’t defame people without proof. Your comments are slanderous. If he is doing wrong, a jury will decide.

      • clovis ray

        Hi, mike
        He just trolling, don’t waste your time on him, i just gave him a neg one, for hate speech.

        • NCkhawk

          So possible truth is now hate speech?

          • roseland67

            NC,

            That is common here, if you do not believe what you are told to believe,
            If you do not have 100% blind faith in all you read,
            Then you are a skeptopath, heretic, blasphemer, non Believer.
            You are certainly entitled to your opinion and it may yet prove true,
            No on here knows otherwise, we all just hope you’re not.
            Personally, I would not be at all surprised if 2016 comes and goes
            And there is still nothing available from Rossi/Leonardo.

          • Andrew

            No one here tells people what to believe or not to believe, we leave that to main stream science. Most of us just keep an open mind until there is more information available.

          • psi2u2

            Thanks for helping to set the record straight. I was going to say the same thing, only not so nicely.

          • clovis ray

            It is not common here, we just have an ability to speak without being overbearing, who do you think you’re talking too.

          • Andrew

            Someone without proof either positive and negative should keep their smearing to a minimum. To me the “breakout scheme” is very unlikely. For that to be the case Rossi would have had to already fooled some very rich venture capitalists and you can bet that before they drop a dime they will have done some serious due diligence or they’re in on the scam. For darden to be in on the scam seems very unlikely as he already makes money by the boatload and wouldnt need to scam to get ahead. If Rossi is the lone scammer he probably would have ran with the first investment because being 70 years old and running a long term scam doesn’t seem very feasible let alone the fact that he would only sell a few products before being cought. Hardly worth spending years to hatch.

          • You’re a good man to bother explaining the obvious to him. Pity he cant see it for himself.

          • US_Citizen71

            He doesn’t want to see anything for himself. It is quite apparent he is a MY/Krivit clone. If you give him a formula or equation he will conveniently forget that 1+1=2 if it helps his agenda. He is nothing but a time suck, we all need to not feed the trolls they just comeback for more.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Accusations without proof is hate speech brother. Especially implying felonies.

          • NCkhawk

            Where did you get your law degree?

          • clovis ray

            look guy, if you honestly want to know about Dr, Rossi’s e-cat, go back and do your required reading on this subject, we have been here for years how long have you even known about the e-cat.
            And what the heck does-
            Rossi’s public demos and disclosures have already cooked his goose in the EU regarding much of his patent strategy. –
            I been here a long time and have no idea what your talking about.

      • NCkhawk

        That issued patent by the USPTO is extremely narrow Michael. Rossi can be instantly impeached based on his past history in a USPTO hearing. If he tries to enforce anything that odds will be long against him.

        • Brent Buckner

          It seems to me that your comment about patent enforcement has little to say about whether or not Rossi has produced a working LENR device.

          • NCkhawk

            Rossi is the one hawking patent enforcement as a co-anchor of his business strategy. While we don’t know what else he has coming or what will issue, I’m saying will not be able to reliably hang his hat on the narrow isthmus that his present patent defends. No one knows if Rossi has a working device or not except Rossi and hopefully a handful of others.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Fair enough. But Rossi has had a year long test of the prototype. Too many people involved to be a scam. Whether it works “good enough” is the question I think. Also, as patents go, he will add multiple patents as does anyone who knows how the system works.

          • NCkhawk

            To your point of too many people involved to be a scam, I interpreted the IH statement to be a sign of big trouble with the 1 year test. Very happy to be totally wrong about that though. Anyone who knows how a CF system works would be very wise to consider a trade secret / patent thicket strategy. Rossi’s public demos and disclosures have already cooked his goose in the EU regarding much of his patent strategy. He’ll find that out the hard way if his system is real.

          • Brent Buckner

            Fine, just seemed to me that you’d wandered from the points about “scamster-in-chief” – Michael Wolf above invoked the patent respective of a functioning LENR device (“proof”), not a sustainable business advantage.

          • NCkhawk

            I should not have said “scamster-in-chief”. That was an in the moment mistake. If you read Rossi’s patent – it does not say a word about cold fusion or a LENR device. So far, those skilled in the art do not appear to have been able to reproduce the issued patent in a working capacity but we do not know everything that is going one. Rossi is the one relentless pointing to his patent on JNOP as his bastion anchor of his future business strategy. His Italian patent is worthless – they grant what is filed. .

          • Brent Buckner

            You wrote: “So far, those skilled in the art do not appear to have been able to reproduce the issued patent in a working capacity”

            Perhaps not an attempt to reproduce the issued patent, but Parkhomov claimed success in replicating Rossi’s hot cat. (c.f. http://kb.e-catworld.com/index.php?title=Alexander_Parkhomov%27s_E-Cat_replication_experiments )

          • Omega Z

            http://www.google.com/patents/US20140326711#classifications

            Patent # US20140326711A1
            Applicant : Industrial Heat
            Inventors: Andrea Rossi
            Assignee: Leonardo Corporation

            Clicking Classification goes to bottom of page find this number-> G21B 3/00
            Click on G21B 3/00 takes you to this page-

            http://web2.wipo.int/classifications/ipc/ipcpub/#refresh=page&notion=scheme&version=20130101&symbol=G21B0003000000

            You’ll find
            Low-temperature nuclear fusion reactors, e.g. alleged cold fusion reactors [2006.01]
            ———————————————————————-
            The above is referenced to patent WO2015127263 A3 that also refers to G21B 3/00
            http://www.google.com/patents/WO2015127263A3?cl=en

            Applicant: Industrial Heat, Llc
            Inventors: Andrea Rossi, Thomas Barker DAMERON

    • clovis ray

      -1

    • psi2u2

      Your “if I’m wrong then fantastic” sounds pretty formulaic to me. I do think you should be careful about what you say. There is no significant basis for these reckless accusations.

      • NCkhawk

        I disagree. It really would be fantastic if I’m wrong – I was pro-Rossi until it dawned on me that we may be in the process of being tricked. I don’t see how Rossi has innovated from a 1MW shipping container to a 100W “quark” so quickly. He claimed safety certification for the 1MW shipping before the start of his 1 year test. His bait, buy time and switch tactics continue. Regarding the 1MW system to the latest, that is like going from a one-off of the Model-T prototype to full scale production of a Prius and / or Leaf in 1 year’s time. It all reads as if he is up to something to me and I’m concerned about it. Cold Fusion research is just now broadly coming back to life and the sector cannot afford a big deception – that is why I am urging caution and sobriety while anticipating some trouble ahead.

        • Brent Buckner

          I think if you revisit the timeline then you might see the claims as somewhat less outlandish.

          We’ve been told: the original 1MW plant had an array of 100 reactors of 10kW (so “only” two orders of magnitude difference to 100W). Further, the 1MW plant was an array of low temperature E-cats (aka E-cat LT).

          We’ve been told that the precursor of the E-cat X was the Hot Cat (aka E-cat HT), which was already being tested by others in 2013 (e.g. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing-of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/#4637308457e4 ).

          • NCkhawk

            They why in the hell did he feel the need to demo the 1MW unit for 1 year and drag us along thru that process – that makes things even more incredulous once you start to think about it. Sales were supposed to start on those big systems but alas, no. Orders of magnitude improvements in science and engineering are very difficult to come by.

          • Brent Buckner

            IH was in charge of the 1 year test. Perhaps they wanted cost information, robustness information, transmutation pathway information. Perhaps they wanted evidence to show customers with big industrial applications on the line.

          • Guest

            That is not necessarily true. IH has never even confirmed that a 1 year test has happened, and as they have said, don’t trust what others are saying about us unless we’ve confirmed it.

          • Brent Buckner

            Sure; let’s change that to: “Rossi consistently told us that IH was in charge of the year test”.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Well, the plant was not a public demo.

            And there really no way to realize how the plant will perform until you run it
            in a real industrial environment for about a year. How long does the fuel
            charge last? How much input power does the plant consume over time? How often are parts required to be replaced. All of this information is required before
            ANYONE will sign on the dotted line.

            No one going to purchase an airplane without knowing the fuel costs and ALSO the maintains cost. How long does the engine last before replacement?

            As a result, the plant was not sold, but ONLY the heat from the plant was purchased. And just like when a company delivers a truck load of pipes to a job site, then do you trust the truck driver to count the pipes delivered? The constriction company not going to truest the driver! And the reverse is also true! Does the company delivering the pipes trust the job site to count the pipes delivered?

            As a result, there are checks and balances. Both parties will thus have their OWN TRUST system in place.

            Rossi is monitoring the plant and the output. However the customer ALSO hired an independent firm to check the results. The ERV (Expert Responsible for Validation).

            Neither party is going to take the claims of the other party on face value. So they both will have their own data.

            This is really basic business!
            I am delivering your something, so both parties have checks and balances in place to ensure they ONLY pay for what was purchased. Or on the other side to ensure they get paid for 4 pipes delivered and not the customer say they only received two pipes!

            So the ERV report is exciting since it will give real world numbers as to the kind of cost savings that the 1MW plant can achieve, and such a report is not from Rossi, but from a customer consuming heat delivered.

            Of course the ERV report will NOT give the cost of running the plant. And refined nickel like Ni62 is in the $10,000 per gram range right now. However, looking at the 3rd party report, it looks like the reactor “breeds” Ni62. It possible that Rossi used this plant to build up a supply of Ni62!

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Brent Buckner

            I just bumped across what I think might be a reason for a 1 year test involving a customer – a prior use defense against any subsequent attempt by a third party to patent something that was being kept as a trade secret:
            http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/03/27/how-do-you-launch-a-potentially-world-changing-energy-technology/#comment-2592352357

  • BillH

    Apart from robotic production lines there are other technologies that might help with the rapid production of E-Cat units e.g. 3D printing. You can imagine fuel cells totally encapsulated in 3D containers that would only have wires or cables for support and access to outside power.

    I would suggest that units could be made in two parts as either a conventional heat or energy supply without the need for any fuel cells but with space to insert fuel cells and turn them into a super heat or electrical supply that runs at a 10th of normal cost. That way fuel cells could be sold as a separate item that you could use with your heater, initially at your own risk. This might circumvent some of the regulations associated with home use.

    Let’s do it AR, while the time is right?

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Albert Ellul March 25, 2016 at 1:12 PM
    Dear Ing. Rossi,
    You are feeling very upbeat about the e-Cat Quark X and its production roll out. For me and others, who such as I, have been following you and your ups and downs for the past five years are seeing the end of the tunnel and the success that you deserve. The home unit we know is a difficult one considering safety issues. However an industrial unit will not have such issues although it would need some sort of certifications according to the country of importation or use.
    1. Would be the electrical output power (kW) of your smallest industrial unit planned for production be less than 20kW?
    2. Would it be AC or DC?
    Thank you and wish you all the success that you deserve.

    Andrea Rossi
    March 25, 2016 at 3:28 PM
    Albert Ellul:
    her production is not just in roll out mode: it’s in rock and roll out mode!
    Thank you for your kind words and considerations: I agree.
    1- not a problem
    2- either
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • Stephen Taylor

      Fantastic!

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Albert Ellul March 25, 2016 at 1:12 PM
    Dear Ing. Rossi,
    You are feeling very upbeat about the e-Cat Quark X and its production roll out. For me and others, who such as I, have been following you and your ups and downs for the past five years are seeing the end of the tunnel and the success that you deserve. The home unit we know is a difficult one considering safety issues. However an industrial unit will not have such issues although it would need some sort of certifications according to the country of importation or use.
    1. Would be the electrical output power (kW) of your smallest industrial unit planned for production be less than 20kW?
    2. Would it be AC or DC?
    Thank you and wish you all the success that you deserve.

    Andrea Rossi
    March 25, 2016 at 3:28 PM
    Albert Ellul:
    her production is not just in roll out mode: it’s in rock and roll out mode!
    Thank you for your kind words and considerations: I agree.
    1- not a problem
    2- either
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • Stephen Taylor

      Fantastic! Eng. Rossi is quite enthusiastic. Hard evidence must follow. Many of us are growing old as we wait and; we wait.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Rossi’s strategy says commercial success will bring scientific acceptance. He has always shunned individual investment saying he does not wish to play American football with the bones of others. To say there is some scheming to take deposits is silly.
    Large sums may be at risk from wiling venture capitalists or philanthropists but Mom and Pop are quite safe with Dr. Rossi. NCkhawks comments “by hook or by crook”, ” scamster in chief” seem a bit forced and not well informed at best.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Rossi’s strategy says commercial success will bring scientific acceptance. He has always shunned individual investment saying he does not wish to play American football with the bones of others. To say there is some scheming to take deposits is silly.
    Large sums may be at risk from wiling venture capitalists or philanthropists but Mom and Pop are quite safe with Dr. Rossi. NCkhawk’s comments “by hook or by crook”, “scamster in chief” seem a bit forced and not well informed, at best.

    • Guest

      Just offering another interpretation, but taking money from non-professional investors, at least in the US, would subject Rossi to oversight from the SEC. This would then allow or even necessitate that they come in and evaluate his claims.

      Staying private, and only taking money from professional/accredited investors means that he doesn’t need to prove any of his claims. Accredited investors are allowed to make speculative ‘bets’ without any governmental oversight (essentially SEC saying you are experienced/wealthy enough to gamble/lose it all and we don’t need to protect you).

      Just saying that his statements around not taking money from regular individuals not necessarily as altruistic as some would believe.

      • Stephen Taylor

        You are so right. It may be time for a comprehensive reevaluation of this entire situation. It has been five years since Rossi went public. What have we really learned? Not much. We should start thinking about a contrarian view.
        As far as I can tell the Pd D reaction is weak and inconsistent. The evidence for Ni H is very reminiscent of same. Where are we? Where are we headed? I don’t like what I see.

        • clovis ray

          Dr. Rossi, and I/H Don’t have to answer to you or anyone else, they could just go black, would you rather see that, well we don’t and we like the way he keeps us informed, if you don’t like it, why are you here,

          • Guest

            I think a lot of people are here to learn about news/developments in LENR and to engage in intelligent discussion around interpretations or evaluations of those same pieces of news/developments.

            Are you here for the same? Or just to praise AR? The ‘why are you here’ comments whenever anyone remotely questions what’s going on come across (at least to me) as unnecessarily defensive.

          • clovis ray

            why don’t you identify yourself, register then you might have more of a say, it just seem,very impolite, to tell half lies, And misquotes, in utter,disregard, for the honorable work he has performed,
            yes i do hold him in high regard, i will speak to him and about him with respect, as though i were addressing, leonardo da vinci, Sir isaac newton, and albert einstein,
            He will be even greater than these . so yes, i hold him very high, in my thoughts and prayers. sorry if that offends you.
            i don’t mind answering questions, because i have answered many here over the years, and it is usually the same questions, still i don’t mind,but you will be civil and respectful, or you will get only my ire. after all this site is in honor, of the E-CAT, and Dr. R. first and then all new innovations, in energy, and there are some out there, very few,but still. we want to know about then, in order to analyze them, there is so much fraud ,scams and the like we must stay on guard, we have a reputation here, as a legitimate inity for observing, and testing these claims.
            and i must say we are pretty darn good at it.. thanks goes to all our brilliant minds here, i personally have not seen or read of such a group ever.

          • Guest

            I never said that your high regard for AR offended me, it doesn’t. I was just commenting on the fact that what appear to be legitimate questions seem to offend you. That’s not a great way of getting to the truth, but maybe that’s not important.

            Happy Easter.

          • clovis ray

            Do you call this intelligent,discussion,- but taking money from non-professional investors, =-The evidence for Ni H is very reminiscent of same. Where are we? Where are we headed? I don’t like what I see.

          • Guest

            Actually, yes. You don’t?

            On the first part of the original comment, difficulty replicating the Pd D reaction is the reason the entire F&P fiasco happened in the first place. I don’t think that is disputable.

            On the second part of the original comment, if the Ni H reaction wasn’t difficult, then there wouldn’t be challenges replicating AR’s results either.

            I think the concern shared by many here is that if the statements that are being made about the e-cat don’t turn out to be ironclad, supported by indisputable evidence (likely in the form of a working commercial product), then the end result could be a final abandonment of research/funding in this space. This concern could cause many (especially the well-informed) to be nervous about what they’re seeing.

            I think our disconnect is that you view this site as being a tribute to the e-cat/AR and I view it as a forum to discuss e-cat/lenr news and developments.

  • radvar
  • radvar

    Where to start? Well, ok..

    > inflammatory phrasing e.g. “scamster”
    > hyperbole e.g. “humanly possible”
    > implying inconsistencies e.g. “that chilly”
    > indirect accusation e.g. “sounding more like”
    > suggestive metaphors e.g. “circus act”
    > making demands e.g. “should demand proof”

    I mean, come on. This is like shooting fish a barrel…

    • psi2u2

      Nice. 6 dead ones.

  • Michael W Wolf

    Search for the truth? On what you think is a scam site? Who are you conning? You don’t go search out a desert to look for water. If you don’t believe, why are you searching for the truth here? I mean to you, it can’t be here. How about putting your money where your mouth is. How much will you give me if rossi is over unity? I mean you have nothing to lose right? So how much?

  • Stephen Taylor

    Have you ever been in a boiler room? I have been bundeled up and freezing next to many large industrial heat sources. Boiler operators generally live in comfort nowadays.

    • NCkhawk

      Wow – I haven’t seen “JM” as the customer name before. Where did that come from? If you have studied the history of CF then Johnson Mathey (a stretch but worth floating) was an important metals provider who had great interest in the sector in the early days.
      Has anyone on this board ever been in a 1MW boiler room? With a COP of 6 that is the equivalent approx. 200lbs of coal / hour. That would take an industrial grade cooling system to keep everything in order including maintaining pressure and return flow. It is a legitimate question.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Silly again, hard to take you seriously though I am trying. Two local powerplants here are 900+ and 150+ MW. Nobody is being steamed to death as far as I know. Many 1 MW facilities have personnel in close proximity. It is just not an issue.

      • US_Citizen71

        No but I have been in the engineering compartment of a nuclear submarine with a 150MW reactor and it was about as cozy as Rossi’s shipping container. Funny we weren’t hard boiled.

  • radvar

    “It does not add up”.

    By gosh, he’s right! And we’ve been taken in all this time! Thank goodness NCkHawk is here to save us!

    Oh, but, uh, I see, it’s really an n-dimensional calculus plus abstract geometric topology problem.

    Ah, well, if all you can do is addition, then I guess those are the types of conclusions you end up with.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Your skepticism is reasonable. Unless one has done much research the story seems too good to be true. Recently, the pace of claims has been fantastical. If we start with Piantelli and Focardi then Rossi follows. Also, knowing about Thermacore is helpful. This is just Nickel and Hydrogen, there is much more in earlier work as you probably know. Lenr-Canr.org is the library. Having said all that, the fact remains, you are on the side of most physicists, so congratulations to you.

    • NCkhawk

      The Thermocore study is one of my favorite studies along with many of the BARC reports. The NRL Spawar and China Lake reports have all kinds of gold nuggets within. I’ve been studying the IP and the papers for years now.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Good then, I take it you see an interesting anomaly and await further developments?

      • Brokeeper

        The morning sunrays are appearing over the horizon.

        • How do you know if something is real if you have not seen it and touched it yourself?
          Example, is this story real?
          https://www.yahoo.com/news/10-000-old-sunken-ancient-210700089.html

          • Brokeeper

            Sometimed you don’t have to touch or see things to believe it exists.
            It is believed the continental shelves were dry in the past because of ubiquitous presence of global flood legends in the folklore of people groups from around the world supporting the biblcal story. This only supports the legends.

          • I guess I am just saying that I believe in intelligently cautious optimism, but I never believe in faith, which is always blind to one degree or another. As regards to the sunken Japanese city news story, some of the photos are probably/obviously photo-shopped.

          • psi2u2

            This is a classic “maybe natural, maybe not” example. Robert Schoch, a well known open-minded geologist, says it is natural, but perhaps not. I’ve never seen a fully convincing argument either way – but it’s in the right place anyway if the above analysis is correct.

          • psi2u2

            The other reason is that, geologically, the continental shelves were in fact dry land. That’s what continental shelves are – the parts of the continents that are exposed during an ice age (circa 100,000 years), but covered with water at the height of the interglacial periods (circa 10-15,000 years). Ergo, the flood legends are most likely quite real, from all over the world, and substantial civilizational remains probably lie on the continental shelves of the world, accessible today only by archaeologists who also dive (as they have been proven to be the case in the Black sea area, which was inundated after an ice damn broke at the end of last ice age circa 11,000 BC, releasing what is still today the Hellespont, flooding the Black sea from the Mediterranean side and burying the remains of huge lakeside settlements under a hundred feet of water) Because of what rather seems like contemporary hubris, however, the legends are dismissed as superstitions by followers of Lyellian gradualism.

          • akupaku

            It is highly probable that this news is real. And it is nothing new, these underwater structures have been known for many years. Similar underwater structures of ancient civilizations have been found all over the world, for example in the Caribbean and India. And also on dry land in South America, estimated to be 12000 years old. All these suggest that there were advanced civilizations on Earth before the last ice age ended and global sea levels rose over 200 meters because the ice melted. Ancient legends of Atlantis and Lemuria might be true after all.

            Of course, modern archeology ignores all this evidence and insists that the oldest human civilizations we know of were in in ancient Sumeria in the Middle East around 7000 years ago. All evidence that does not conform to the scientific consensus is ignored or explained away as errors, speculation or scam. The same has happened to cold fusion or LENR. Nothing must disturb the prevalent consensus and power structure. The venerable MIT falsified their reproduction of F & P experiment to keep their funding in hot fusion research (it has been shown later that MIT actually achieved excess heat).

            And the history of science is rich with similar cases. To name a few, continental drift was once a subject of ridicule, the first flight of the Wright brothers was ridiculed years after by physics professors as “impossible”. A celebrated physicist Lord Rutherford declared that “their was nothing new to be discovered in physics” a few years before quantum mechanics and relativity theory appeared.

            And in today’s science we have similar “impossible” discoveries as LENR and a few others that I don’t care to name here as “off topic” (unless somebody asks, lol!).

        • LarryJ

          Don’t forget the entirely new products and services that we can’t even imagine and which cold fusion will enable. The economy will grow as never before.

      • Stephen Taylor

        BARC?

        • NCkhawk

          Bhabha Atomic Research Center – India. They did some excellent transmutation, electrolytics and plasma research on CF until their funding was cut off in 1996.

  • sam

    Ready on the left.
    Ready on the right.
    We are ready for the EVR report.

  • pangoo
  • pangoo
  • Otto1923

    His competitor – I wonder if he’s talking about brilliant light power? Dr Mills made a pretty impressive demo in February and seems close to production.

    • Frank Acland

      He said on the JONP today that the competitor was in the LENR field: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=79#comment-1163393

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Interesting, that clears up that in fact Rossi was talking about LENR, not something else.

        However, still significant is Rossi stating that they NOT been public (so speculation of existing known players likely is not the case).

        My best bets would be Airbus, since the French government had a LENR program in the early 90s that was producing positive results.

        My other guesses are large industrial entities like Toyota, Simmons, Hitachi etc.

        Key here is they NOT been public as of yet. And also competition at this point in time is ONLY going to come from a industrial player with significant resources.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • LukeDC

          My guess is Doosan via Ansaldo.

        • hum, I don’t think so.
          I have element to think it will came from French garage.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Probably Rossi was not referring to BLP but Mills and Rossi technology may be joined at the hip.

      • Roland

        It may be salutary to remember that the conflicting theories held by Rossi and Mills lead each to characterize what the other has accomplished according to their own theory to the exclusion of what each party themselves has to say about what they’re doing; Mills doesn’t accept LENR and Rossi doesn’t accept hydrinos.

        From this perspective Rossi might view Mills as a LENR competitor in spite of Mills’ protest that his technology has nothing to do with LENR, and, of course, vice versa.

        Then again this might be idle speculation and there is indeed another LENR team at an advanced design stage on a similar trajectory to IH/Leonardo.

        If Rossi is not yet taking Mills to be a very serious competitor perhaps he ought to…

        • Andreas Moraitis

          I agree about theory. However, I would be very surprised if we would see a mature commercial product by BLP in the near term.

  • Otto1923

    His competitor – I wonder if he’s talking about brilliant light power? Dr Mills made a pretty impressive demo in February and seems close to production.

    • Frank Acland

      He said on the JONP today that the competitor was in the LENR field: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=79#comment-1163393

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Interesting, that clears up that in fact Rossi was talking about LENR, not something else.

        However, still significant is Rossi stating that they NOT been public (so speculation of existing known players likely is not the case).

        My best bets would be Airbus, since the French government had a LENR program in the early 90s that was producing positive results.

        My other guesses are large industrial entities like Toyota, Simmons, Hitachi etc.

        Key here is they NOT been public as of yet. And also competition at this point in time is ONLY going to come from a industrial player with significant resources.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • roseland67

          Albert,

          French? Industrial? Deep pockets?
          Schneider Electric, global giant in the energy management arena

        • LukeDC

          My guess is Doosan via Ansaldo.

        • hum, I don’t think so.
          I have element to think, French LENR will came from French garage.

          since APS fatwa against LENR, CEA (nuke research), EDF (DRN is the nuke reacror division) and CNRS(state research) asked all their employees not to work on LENR, even at home. More catholic than the (APS) Pope…
          and in france it is hard to do anything without the government and those agencies.

          another problem is that the education in school and especially universities, train researcher to flee industry and applications.

          anyway there is a “Macron-spirit” with Z-generation which is surprising…

      • Stephen Taylor

        Probably Rossi was not referring to BLP but Mills and Rossi technology may be joined at the hip (LENR).

      • Roland

        It may be salutary to remember that the conflicting theories held by Rossi and Mills lead each to characterize what the other has accomplished according to their own theory to the exclusion of what each party themselves has to say about what they’re doing; Mills doesn’t accept LENR and Rossi doesn’t accept hydrinos.

        From this perspective Rossi might view Mills as a LENR competitor in spite of Mills’ protest that his technology has nothing to do with LENR, and, of course, vice versa.

        Then again this might be idle speculation and there is indeed another LENR team at an advanced design stage on a similar trajectory to IH/Leonardo.

        If Rossi is not yet taking Mills to be a very serious competitor perhaps he ought to…

        • Andreas Moraitis

          I agree about theory. However, I would be very surprised if we would see a mature commercial product by BLP in the near term.

        • pangoo

          A quote from a review of Mills GUTCP book by Dr. Reinhart Engelmann

          “Mills also predicts that atomic Coulomb field collapse can proceed to such a degree that, with fusible atomic nuclei, e.g. deuterons, fusion can set in: Mills predicts the possibility of cold fusion or, in his terminology, Coulombic annihilation fusion (CAF)! Fleischmann and Pons [4] appear to be vindicated.”

          http://brilliantlightpower.com/engelman-review/

          This could possibly account for the nuclear transmutation in Rossi’s e-cat also.

          Seems to just be an argument over terminologies and processes.
          There’s also a need to to invalidate or dismiss commercial competitors 😀

  • Albert D. Kallal

    I have to agree that skepticism is reasonable!

    And what the ecat-X can do? This is beyond crazy!

    However, there are several issues and steps required to eliminate the “fog” of war in this regards.

    First up:
    Is LENR real?

    Well, what if an independent news company like 60 minutes went to the American Physics Association and ask them to pick a skeptical Physicist, and the news channel hired that person to look into LENR to see if it is real?

    The story from 60 minutes in 2009 can be found here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvaX3vRtRA

    The above is MUST watch. And MOST significant is the witness and testimony of that Physicist who came back from a lab in Israel, and said, wow – this actually works.

    With the above, and 100’s of papers around the world having found excess heat, I think it is reasonable to accept LENR as much as we accept we landed on the moon.

    It is certainly possible that we did not land on the moon, and possible that LENR is not real, but they are not REASONABLE positions.

    I think it is reasonable to accept that Julius Caesar also existed, but once again only until evidence is gathered can one accept that Julius Caesar existed.

    Ok, so it quite easy to make the case for LENR.

    And Rossi is NOT required to get this far into the discussion.

    In the case of Rossi? Well, that’s more difficult, but evidence is building day by day based on the actions of OTHERS involved with Rossi or those that purchased the rights to his technology.

    So Industrial Heat purchased rights to Rossi. Rossi stated a once year test would occur. And after ONE year, Industrial Heat made a public announcement in regards to their LENR technology – I doubt such a statement would be made if this is a scam.

    The only real issue left here is how well Rossi’s technology performs, not that has working LENR devices.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Brent Buckner

      Yes. I’ll chip in with Parkhomov claiming to replicate Rossi, and with MFMP claiming an LENR event with Bob Greenyer then explaining how retrospectively he understood it to be consonant with Rossi’s comments about such things as lead thermalizing radiation. Further, Bob Greenyer has gone on to say that features of the E-cat X would clearly follow from his understanding of Piantelli’s theory in the context of MFMP’s results.

      • NCkhawk

        With all due respect, Bob Greenyer is a business or marketing guy who should not be attempting to make science videos. He does not help MFMP credibility in my opinion.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Not the worst idea, see my comment from last year:

          http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/02/19/new-official-web-site-andrea-rossi-com-pictures-of-the-new-plant/

          Regarding Areva, which is also mentioned, it might be interesting that Siemens appears to be keen to acquire Gamesa’s stake in Areva. (Actually they are saying that they want to takeover Gamesa and would even buy the Areva stake to facilitate the deal.)

        • Brent Buckner

          Fine. I don’t have anyone other than Bob Greenyer telling me whether or not something like the E-Cat X would clearly follow per Piantelli’s theory so personally I’ll continue to entertain the notion that it may not be as big a leap as it may seem at first blush. YMMV, and clearly does!

        • cashmemorz

          Similar to the factory that produces taxicabs. If the factory can make $ driving people around then of course why sell the taxi. But the point of the factory is that they are in the business of making and selling taxis and are not equipped to make money off taxi use. So AR is not interested in using every single E-CAT for making money producing electricity to sell to the utility. The goal that AR has is to supply the world’s people with something that helps them to save effort in terms of personal energy use and expenditure. AR wants to make money for sure but as a byproduct of helping the average person to make their life better. AR is greedy but not as greedy as the oil barons and the utilities.

          • LarryJ

            I disagree with the notion that AR is greedy. It is true he wants to control his IP and the market for cold fusion but I believe that desire is born out his desire to see his technology widely disseminated more than a personal desire to be a billionaire. The only way he can ensure those goals is to carefully control his technology. Obviously his investors need a return on their money because without them nothing will happen but he has stated that he intends to price his products so low that nobody can compete against him. Who does that hurt? He also intends to direct a large proportion of his earnings to philanthropic causes. I think he is an elder philosopher on a mission given by his god and whose trials in life have left him more concerned with his legacy than his wealth.

          • psi2u2

            “whose trials in life have left him more concerned with his legacy than his wealth.”

            Very well put. I agree that Rossi’s research path and personality as it comes across consistently support this interpretation. It is unfortunate in my view when people condemn Rossi for not open-sourcing all his discoveries. I think Rossi correctly perceives that the swiftest dissemination of LENR is most likely to come through at least some aspects of it being proprietary. That is Rossi’s realism, not his greed.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Just be well informed. There really is a lot more to this than Eng. Rossi. He may turn out to be historic, or not. Lenr-Canr.org is serious and important science repository.

    • Frank Acland

      He said he had an air conditioner in the container where the workspace was (there were two containers apparently), not where the power plant was. If you look at the pictures on andrea-rossi.com you’ll see an air conditioner.

  • Peter

    Can someone explain to me what the E-Cat QuarkX is capable off in terms of usage in a house? So can I use this device simultaneously for light and television and … well, how much can the E-Cat QuarkX take?

    • artefact

      I think Rossi mentioned that the “home e-cat” will be 20KW. It should be capable of generating at least 10KW electricity and 10KW heat. No idea about the light.

      • DrD

        I think he said the ratio is variable ” we can choose” and the efficiency reduces as the % electric increases but won’t say by how much (F8).
        My heating system is 30kW then add the instant hot water, another 15 kW, electric, another 15 kW so I guess I need 2 or 3 units, which is good to me. However, I suspect he will eventually make a range of units starting from, possibly as low as 100W.

    • DrD

      It sounds like it will take a lot. He deliberately destroyed one and commented how diificult it was.
      As for output, he described a modular approach, so in theory they could make modules of any size made up of multiples of 100W quarks, possibly even customised to order (eventually).
      Who knows, maybe we can just buy quarks and put them together ourselves.
      He also said we can chose the ratio of electric to heat but am not sure if it’s preset or we can vary it, hope it’s the latter.
      I’m sure we will know a lot more by mid June

  • Brokeeper

    The morning sun rays are peeking over the horizon.

    • How do you know if something is real if you have not seen it and touched it yourself?
      Example, is this story real?
      https://www.yahoo.com/news/10-000-old-sunken-ancient-210700089.html

      • Brokeeper

        Sometimes you don’t have to touch or see things to believe it exists.
        It is believed the continental shelves were once dry land because of ubiquitous presence of global flood legends in the folklore of people groups from around the world. This discovery only supports those stories and legends.

        • I guess I am just saying that I believe in intelligently cautious optimism, but I never believe in faith, which is always blind to one degree or another. As regards to the sunken Japanese city news story, some of the photos are probably/obviously photo-shopped.

          PS This underwater video is the most awesome home made video I have ever seen on YouTube. It shows you what the rocks really look like. How long can you hold your breath? No scuba tanks!

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ep9P6uX9BM

          • psi2u2

            This is a classic “maybe natural, maybe not” example. Robert Schoch, a well known open-minded geologist, says it is natural, but perhaps not. I’ve never seen a fully convincing argument either way – but it’s in the right place anyway if the above analysis is correct.

          • clovis ray

            Hi, everyone
            I have been a rock hound for many years, and have an awesome collection, and have seen this kind of formation before , i believe it to be natural, and it could be an ancient rock quarry. when ocean levels were lower, not very impressive to me.

        • psi2u2

          The other reason is that, geologically, the continental shelves were in fact dry land. That’s what continental shelves are – the parts of the continents that are exposed during an ice age (circa 100,000 years), but covered with water at the height of the interglacial periods (circa 10-15,000 years). Ergo, the flood legends are most likely quite real, from all over the world, and substantial civilizational remains probably lie on the continental shelves of the world, accessible today only by archaeologists who also dive (as they have been proven to be the case in the Black sea area, which was inundated after an ice damn broke at the end of last ice age circa 11,000 BC, releasing what is still today the Hellespont, flooding the Black sea from the Mediterranean side and burying the remains of huge lakeside settlements under a hundred feet of water) Because of what rather seems like contemporary hubris, however, the legends are dismissed as superstitions by followers of Lyellian gradualism.

      • akupaku

        It is highly probable that this news is real. And it is nothing new, these underwater structures have been known for many years. Similar underwater structures of ancient civilizations have been found all over the world, for example in the Caribbean and India. And also on dry land in South America, estimated to be 12000 years old. All these suggest that there were advanced civilizations on Earth before the last ice age ended and global sea levels rose over 200 meters because the ice melted. Ancient legends of Atlantis and Lemuria might be true after all.

        Of course, modern archeology ignores all this evidence and insists that the oldest human civilizations we know of were in in ancient Sumeria in the Middle East around 7000 years ago. All evidence that does not conform to the scientific consensus is ignored or explained away as errors, speculation or scam. The same has happened to cold fusion or LENR. Nothing must disturb the prevalent consensus and power structure. The venerable MIT falsified their reproduction of F & P experiment to keep their funding in hot fusion research (it has been shown later that MIT actually achieved excess heat).

        And the history of science is rich with similar cases. To name a few, continental drift was once a subject of ridicule, the first flight of the Wright brothers was ridiculed years after by physics professors as “impossible”. A celebrated physicist Lord Rutherford declared that “there was nothing new to be discovered in physics” a few years before quantum mechanics and relativity theory appeared.

        And in today’s science we have similar “impossible” discoveries as LENR and a few others that I don’t care to name here as “off topic” (unless somebody asks, lol!).

  • Andrew

    Someone without proof either positive and negative should keep their smearing to a minimum. To me the “breakout scheme” is very unlikely. For that to be the case Rossi would have had to already fooled some very rich venture capitalists and you can bet that before they drop a dime they will have done some serious due diligence or they’re in on the scam. For darden to be in on the scam seems very unlikely as he already makes money by the boatload and wouldnt need to scam to get ahead. If Rossi is the lone scammer he probably would have ran with the first investment because being 70 years old and running a long term scam doesn’t seem very feasible let alone the fact that he would only sell a few products before being cought. Hardly worth spending years to hatch.

  • Steve Savage

    It really feels to me like we are close to the breakout most of us have been watching and hoping for.
    I have a few questions for you.

    If we are truly approaching the breakout?, it could attract a lot of investment $ very quickly, what is the best way to take advantage financially?

    1. Invest as much as possible in the Woodford mutual fund, I see this as very low risk as only approx. 2% of the fund is invested, but it could be far less on the reward side as well?

    2. Set up a legal mutual fund of our own with a professional fund manager etc… with the express purpose of becoming a private investor in Cherokee, Industrial Heat, Lux or Leonardo Corporation. Or any combination that is available and makes sense. (high risk, potential for substantial rewards)?
    3. Is this the right time to seek these investment opportunities?
    4. What is the best summary (not too long) to get to somebody (my wife) up to speed on all this quickly? She will need to approve.

    • Brent Buckner

      It seems to me that your comment about patent enforcement has little to say about whether or not Rossi has produced a working LENR device.

    • Brent Buckner

      As to your question in 4, you might start here:
      http://www.e-catworld.com/why-i-believe-in-the-e-cat/

      It may be difficult to invest per your point 2, and as you note your point 1 avenue is considerably watered down. You might also or instead consider potential relative winners and losers from the hypothetical introduction of LENR (just as some folks made money by shorting Chrysler as OPEC tightened oil supply in the 1970s there would be knock-on winners and losers).
      [This is not a solicitation, nor advice to engage in any transaction. Futures and options trading involves risk.]

      • DrD

        Maybe put down a pre order for 1000 Ecats and hope for a profit if orders out strip demand, better still if you can install them. I doubt IH will go along with that.

        • Michael W Wolf

          Well, I can’t argue with that. But that was not your tone in earlier posts. But yes, your point is valid.

        • Brent Buckner

          Sure; let’s change that to: “Rossi consistently told us that IH was in charge of the year test”.

    • Mike Ivanov

      Investment… hard to say to be honest. I like AR but in past, we saw cases when innovator had been eaten by big sharks. I would be careful about investion in AR business now or just after the launch.

      For stock market players it makes more sense to be ready to short all energy providers – oil, gas, coal, and distribution companies, plus related service companies – pipes, cables, etc. Especially solar and wing energy – those will die really quickly.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      If you and your wife are “qualified investors” I think the best solution would be to contact Industrial Heat and/or Hydro Fusion directly.

    • Fedir Mykhaylov

      Will be a win-win investments in companies mining lithium.

      • DrD

        AR said their use if Li is negligible. Maybe it will even fall in price if the quark replaces enough conventional (Li) batteries,

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Yes. He recently said that starttime is seconds. Then the needed buffer battery is small, or could be a supercapacitor.

        • Fedir Mykhaylov

          When using lithium as a fuel component of e-Cat reactor demand for lithium will increase. Unlike lithium-ion batteries, Lithium burning in the e-cat beyond retrieve .
          — реклама ———————————————————– Только до 1.04! Купон QV6A-HI3Z-448P-DDWY
          Получите скидку 7% на домены, хостинг, сервера http://FREEhost.COM.UA

          • DrD

            No your wrong.
            The amount that disappears is negligible, according to E=mc^2. Work it out. Rossi himself says so and he is correct. Even world wide after everything is changed and it’s not only Li that is consumed to produce energy.
            Further more, much Li in batteries is not recycled.

          • cashmemorz

            A mature LENR industry will even transmute hydrogen into heavy hydrogen into tritium then into lithium. Many other uses for LENR, not just power and transmutation of elements.

          • cashmemorz

            There are rules in place for unsolicited business ads and slanderous language on E-CAT World commentary. Be careful you don’t get banned!

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            What is advertising? It’s about burnout Li7 reaction with a proton

            — реклама ———————————————————– Поторопись зарегистрировать самый короткий почтовый адрес @i.ua http://mail.i.ua/reg – и получи 1Gb для хранения писем

  • Steve Savage

    It really feels to me like we are close to the breakout most of us have been watching and hoping for.
    I have a few questions for you.

    If we are truly approaching the breakout?, it could attract a lot of investment $ very quickly, what is the best way to take advantage financially?

    1. Invest as much as possible in the Woodford mutual fund, I see this as very low risk as only approx. 2% of the fund is invested, but it could be far less on the reward side as well?

    2. Set up a legal mutual fund of our own with a professional fund manager etc… with the express purpose of becoming a private investor in Cherokee, Industrial Heat, Lux or Leonardo Corporation. Or any combination that is available and makes sense. (high risk, potential for substantial rewards)?
    3. Is this the right time to seek these investment opportunities?
    4. What is the best summary (not too long) to get to somebody (my wife) up to speed on all this quickly? She will need to approve.

    • Brent Buckner

      As to your question in 4, you might start here:
      http://www.e-catworld.com/why-i-believe-in-the-e-cat/

      It may be difficult to invest per your point 2, and as you note your point 1 avenue is considerably watered down. You might also or instead consider potential relative winners and losers from the hypothetical introduction of LENR (just as some folks made money by shorting Chrysler as OPEC tightened oil supply in the 1970s there would be knock-on winners and losers).
      [This is not a solicitation, nor advice to engage in any transaction. Futures and options trading involves risk.]

      • DrD

        Maybe put down a pre order for 1000 Ecats and hope for a profit if orders out strip demand, better still if you can install them. I doubt IH will go along with that.

        • cashmemorz

          If he is smart along the whole LENR production and use market AR will have his own people install and maintain all installations.

    • Mike Ivanov

      Investment… hard to say to be honest. I like AR but in past, we saw cases when innovator had been eaten by big sharks. I would be careful about investion in AR business now or just after the launch.

      For stock market players it makes more sense to be ready to short all energy providers – oil, gas, coal, and distribution companies, plus related service companies – pipes, cables, etc. Especially solar and wing energy – those will die really quickly.

      • clovis ray

        i agree 100%, and it makes good sense,

      • cashmemorz

        Not as soon as it might appear at first glance. An oil producer was asked what he would do when LENR devices became successful in the market. He replied he would use the cheap power they produced to compete in producing more oil than the guys who still used old expensive power to run the oil rigs. Old ways die slow and hard.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      If you and your wife are “qualified investors” I think the best solution would be to contact Industrial Heat and/or Hydro Fusion directly.

    • Fedir Mykhaylov

      Will be a win-win investments in companies mining lithium.

      • DrD

        AR said their use if Li is negligible. Maybe it will even fall in price if the quark replaces enough conventional (Li) batteries,

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Yes. He recently said that starttime is seconds. Then the needed buffer battery is small, or could be a supercapacitor.

        • Fedir Mykhaylov

          When using lithium as a fuel component of e-Cat reactor demand for lithium will increase. Unlike lithium-ion batteries, Lithium burning in the e-cat beyond retrieve .
          — реклама ———————————————————– Только до 1.04! Купон QV6A-HI3Z-448P-DDWY
          Получите скидку 7% на домены, хостинг, сервера http://FREEhost.COM.UA

          • DrD

            No your wrong.
            The amount that disappears is negligible, according to E=mc^2. Work it out. Rossi himself says so and he is correct. Even world wide after everything is changed and it’s not only Li that is consumed to produce energy.
            Ask him if you still don’t believe.
            Further more, much Li in batteries is not recycled.

          • cashmemorz

            A mature LENR industry will even transmute hydrogen into heavy hydrogen into tritium then into lithium. Many other uses for LENR, not just power and transmutation of elements.

          • cashmemorz

            There are rules in place for unsolicited business ads and slanderous language on E-CAT World commentary. Be careful you don’t get banned!

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            What is advertising? It’s about burnout Li7 reaction with a proton

            — реклама ———————————————————– Поторопись зарегистрировать самый короткий почтовый адрес @i.ua http://mail.i.ua/reg – и получи 1Gb для хранения писем

    • BillH

      You can probably afford to wait until E-Cat has reliable products in the market, this isn’t going to be a fast revolution, the manufacturing base just isn’t there to meet demand if things really take off. There could be exponential growth here but what you really want is to buy in when that growth is at its steepest.

    • akupaku

      Seems to me it is pretty difficult to invest directly on LENR success but you can probably invest in all other energy forms going down by buying futures and derivatives like CFDs on them as you can make money with these financial instruments even when they go down.

      Tread carefully though, I have been working 10 years in an investment bank and most amateur investors (around 90%!) lose their money. Success in Investing and banking is usually scored by the professionals and big banks. Big banks can even cheat and manipulate markets without fear of much punishment as they are “too big to fail” as we have seen in recent years in Wall Street. Big banks and investors sometimes pay hundreds of millions in fines when they are caught cheating but their profits are much bigger than the fines and funny enough nobody ever goes to jail! Us normal mortals go to jail for tens of years for similar crimes.

      The game in this field is often rigged. There are “us” and “them”. They usually win.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        „…most amateur investors (around 90%!) lose their money.“

        I do not believe in this figure. Maybe it is true for daytraders, but even in their case it has never been proven, at least as far as I know. This looks to me rather like a tactics to keep people from acting on their own, with the intention to secure the profit of banks and fund managers.

        Which does of course not mean that private persons should not inform themselves very thoroughly before they risk anything.

        • cashmemorz

          Everyone I know who has invested was a little guy like me also an investor. We all have losses in all investments except our houses. Ask around. Its those in the establishment, long history of culture or finance who know who has a way in to a low risk investment who get good return on investment.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Losses are part of the game, even for professionals. But if investors respect some principles, such as diversification, and avoid too risky decisions the probability to end up with a decent result after a long enough time (decades) is relatively high. Certainly, in short-term trading you have usually no chance against the big players.

        • akupaku

          My 90% figure is of course based only on one sample from the specific bank I was working in. They provided private individuals the possibility to invest and trade in a multitude of financial instruments like FX, stocks, CFDs, futures, options, bonds, etc. Most of these require considerable expertise. Long term stock investments are of course the most secure for the small guy. But most of the small guys, day traders as you say, want to make money fast and the game is rigged against them. The Big Boys have their own computers sitting in the exchanges just 20-30 meters away and get price changes several milliseconds before everybody else. This is enough to give them an edge against everybody else. Latency over the Atlantic alone is around 80-100 milliseconds.

          Yes, I agree with you, the 90% figure is too high for all amateur investors but you would be astonished how many of your neighbors are involved in day trading and financial speculation, it is very common. And even more people are indirectly affected by the investments that their pension fonds do for them. Pension fonds nowadays invest heavily in new “emerging” energy forms like solar and wind.

          That is one more way for an individual to affect the outcome, if you can tell your pension fond to invest for all other energy forms going down. And don’t hold me responsible if it goes wrong! You are responsible for your own actions.

          • Good post. I made a long comment that you may have seen by email but it didnt make it through moderation. Yes the game is rigged.

      • Yes, your testimony about how the game is rigged rings very true from what I’ve read and heard. Fines are just a small licensing fee for doing business, nothing more. That’s why we don’t need another wall street crony in the white house.

        Eric Holder didn’t prosecute the bankers (even for drug money laundering offences) when he clearly could and should have. Guess where he ended up when he went back to private practice. Back to working for a wall street based law firm, that’s where. What a joke. I don’t see HCR being any better on this file than Obama was. Wall street pretty much owns everyone running except Bernie imo.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    I much agree in regards to ecat, but not ecat-x

    There simply no information or data on how the ecat-X performs in a commercial environment. Perhaps test information from ecat applies to ecat-X, but that’s pure guessing and speculation at this point in time. Rossi stated he plans to be running a ecat-X next month.

    I don’t see how large scale production of the ecat-X can occur without some considerable testing and design iterations of the ecat-X.
    This fact in no way stops Rossi from starting the process to setup large scale manufacturing of the basic ecat-X components, but we talking over a year from now, and we still will need testing of these new design over many months.

    Regards
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • clovis ray

      Hi, Albert, don’t you remember, just about every time a progress report was given on the L/T cat. he also gave a report on the xCAT. It’s in the archives, look it up.

  • Andrew

    No one here tells people what to believe or not to believe, we leave that to main stream science. Most of us just keep an open mind until there is more information available.

    • psi2u2

      Thanks for helping to set the record straight. I was going to say the same thing, only not so nicely.

  • Rene

    1. Publish ERV report soonest, even a summary of results is enough.
    2. Make many e-cat qqSVC available for a beta test. There are many people who back in 2011 signed up for one. 1-20KW is a good range for domestic usage.
    3. Make an e-cat Narnia lamp, all lit up so that people can experience it.

    • clovis ray

      why, how would that help, them to market, they are not concerned with the public, and could care less about what they think right now, all that, will come later,
      you have to keep in mind that this is a private company, with no strings attached,
      so leverage is non-existent,against this group

  • US_Citizen71

    It seems that you have never heard of nor understand the concept of insulation. It can be put around hot things to keep heat in and increase the efficiency of heat exchange systems like steam generators by preventing heat loss to the environment. It is cutting-edge stuff only been used on steam pipes since the late nineteenth century.

  • artefact

    I think Rossi mentioned that the “home e-cat” will be 20KW. It should be capable of generating at least 10KW electricity and 10KW heat. No idea about the light.

    • DrD

      I think he said the ratio is variable ” we can choose” and the efficiency reduces as the % electric increases but won’t say by how much (F8).
      My heating system is 30kW then add the instant hot water, another 15 kW, electric, another 15 kW so I guess I need 2 or 3 units, which is good to me. However, I suspect he will eventually make a range of units starting from, possibly as low as 100W.

  • Roland

    My guess is that it’s actually the core of the moon that’s made of green cheese and I’ll cling to that view until someone has tunnelled completely through the moon on several axis, without encountering any cheese, till I relinquish one inch of my ironclad position…

    Even then ‘they’ could cleverly fake it just like the dummy ‘moon landings’ so how will I ever know for absolutely sure that I’m wrong about this; besides I’ve never been proven conclusively wrong in any of my baseless conjectures and that’s just the simple beauty of postulating a negative.

  • enduser

    Factories, ABB robotics. scientists and engineers etc. Why has none of these spilled the beans.

    • DrD

      Obvious, it’s called NDA.

    • artefact

      They probably know the beans will be spilled by Rossi in due time and they will make profit. Why spill them themself and risk to loose reputation in that group. And if they would say something, who is gonna believe them?

  • enduser

    Factories, ABB robotics. scientists and engineers etc. Why has none of these spilled the beans.

    • DrD

      Obvious, it’s called NDA.

    • artefact

      They probably know the beans will be spilled by Rossi in due time and they will make profit. Why spill them themself and risk to loose reputation in that group. And if they would say something, who is gonna believe them?

      • roseland67

        Artifact,
        If ABB said they are going to build lenr reactors tomorrow
        I would believe them, Rossi? Not so much

  • DrD

    It sounds like it will take a lot. He deliberately destroyed one and commented how diificult it was.
    As for output, he described a modular approach, so in theory they could make modules of any size made up of multiples of 100W quarks, possibly even customised to order (eventually).
    Who knows, maybe we can just buy quarks and put them together ourselves.
    He also said we can chose the ratio of electric to heat but am not sure if it’s preset or we can vary it, hope it’s the latter.
    I’m sure we will know a lot more by mid June

  • Michael W Wolf

    Fair enough. But Rossi has had a year long test of the prototype. Too many people involved to be a scam. Whether it works “good enough” is the question I think. Also, as patents go, he will add multiple patents as does anyone who knows how the system works.

  • Michael W Wolf

    Accusations without proof is hate speech brother. Especially implying felonies.

  • theBuckWheat

    Let the competition begin!

  • theBuckWheat

    Let the competition begin!

  • Stephen Taylor

    It goes where it is meant to go. It is process steam. The reactors and steam pipes are insulated. The process steam is used to dry or sterilise or cook or otherwise process product. Sometimes the heated product is cooled using large ammonia chillers, sometimes cooling towers and condensers are involved but often residual heat is just vented to atmosphere.
    I have never worked in a fully air conditioned industrial environment. Normally it is hot and a bit steamy in wet areas. Sometimes it can be very cold. In a glass plant the heat is incredible but you get used to it. A 1 MW boiler is really pretty small by comparison. The lost heat in and around the immediate area is minimised and losses are simply vented to atmosphere. For comfort, my understanding is they work in a separate air conditioned control room as was mentioned earlier. It is not the least unusual to vent these small area A/C units to the plant environment which is generally well ventilated.
    Thanks for the reminder about BARC. Memory is not a strong suit here.

    • Omega Z

      At Guest,

      Regardless under what topic you post to on JONP.
      All questions & answers from JONP can be found at-
      http://www.rossilivecat.com/

      It appears to be updated several times a day.

      • Alan DeAngelis
        • Alan DeAngelis
          • Alan DeAngelis
          • Obvious

            “The air-ship, on the plan of those built by Santos-Dumont, is a
            delusion and a snare. A gas balloon, paddled around by oars, is an old
            idea, and can never be of any practical use. Some day, no doubt, some
            one will invent a flying machine that one will be able to navigate
            without having to have a balloon attachment. But the day is a long way
            off when we shall see human beings soaring around like birds.”
            -Lord Kelvin

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Thank you Obvious.

            When did he say that?

          • Obvious

            I am pretty sure it was on a trip to the Niagara Falls hydroelectric facility in 1902.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Ok, it’s making sense. I think he made the flying machines are impossible quote in 1895. So, he must have been aware of the Hall–Héroult process (1886) for making aluminum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall%E2%80%93H%C3%A9roult_process
            and he was at Niagara Falls hydroelectric facility (in 1902) where aluminum metal is made. And he must have known about Samuel Langley’s 1896 unpiloted ¾ of
            a mile catapult launch model by then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Pierpont_Langley
            And if he had lived another 35 years he would have known about these aluminum flying machines.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhmFFtjB2qY

          • Obvious

            I think his main opposition to powered flight was that the power to weight ratio of existing engines (plus fuel requirements) was totally at odds with being able to get off the ground. The availability of aluminum metal and the know-how to use it certainly changed that paradigm.

          • psi2u2

            Interesting that the materials science was the enabling factor.

          • Obvious

            A few weeks ago I was reading a book that followed 5 “basic” inventions, and their long-term repercussions. It shows that prediction of simple consequences are fairly easy, but once adopted, new technology spawns so many new technologies and social changes that the consequences over the long term are nearly unpredictable and often extremely far removed from the invention that started the change.

            The invention of clear (transparent) glass was one example. Clear glass to lenses for eyeglasses to telescopes, microscopes, prisms etc. The subsequent inventions lead to widespread reading, discovery of new planets, galaxies, navigation improvements, reliable trade routes, new immigration patterns, discovery of germs, safe-to-drink water, light properties (waves vs particles), lasers…

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yes, he was aware of heavier-than-air flying meat machines.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            No need to use outrigger combustion chamber. This drawing refers to the old development with fission reactors. Using e Cat X apparently would require some increase the volume combustion chamber significant change nozzles for spraying conventional fuel control system.The first engines apparently remain partial use of fossil fuels.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah Fedir, it looks like they were starting to think about more compact versions.
            http://www.oocities.org/area51/rampart/6805/nucengmd.gif

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            Yes, perhaps this design. Only the inner liquid metal contour excess. Perhaps in the first generation of engines will continue the partial combustion of fossil fuels for a period of heating reactors and modes takeoff and climb.

        • Someone should ask Rossi what he estimates the cost per kilowatt hour will be with the Quark. He must have an updated mental calculation as the Quark is a new technology which he seems to suggest has a higher COP. I personally do not want to bother him. Mr. Rossi seems to have a gregarious nature, but I still do not like to bug him with too many questions. I have no objection to someone else asking.

        • Skip

          Thanx for posting this chart. I had seen it before but didn’t know where. Here’s the 2014 version:
          https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/energy/us/Energy_US_2014.png

  • Pekka Janhunen

    Rossi: Australia is a Territory controlled directly by Leonardo Corporation.
    This is surprising, I thought it was still Roger Green.

    • artefact

      Just wanted to write the same.

      Strange.

    • Paul Smith

      Rossi writes “…Australia is a Territory controlled directly by Leonardo Corporation. We bought back the commercial licence from the former Licensee.
      The contact for Australia is:
      [email protected]…”

      Green isn’t no more the licencees

  • Pekka Janhunen

    Rossi: Australia is a Territory controlled directly by Leonardo Corporation.
    This is surprising, I thought it was still Roger Green.

    • artefact

      Just wanted to write the same.

      Strange. Maybe he has a sublicense.

    • Paul Smith

      Rossi writes “…Australia is a Territory controlled directly by Leonardo Corporation. We bought back the commercial licence from the former Licensee.
      The contact for Australia is:
      [email protected]…”

      Green isn’t no more the licencees

  • AdrianAshfield

    A word of caution on the time line. Rossi has said he was ready to mass produce E-Cats before. Having built complete factories in the past I know there are many delays. You have to get planning permission, then build the building, supply it with power, order and get delivery of the robots, set them up and debug the line, etc.
    As it doesn’t sound like he has actually received any of the above, I would be surprised if it could be put together in under nine months – by the end of 2016.
    As he is smart, I believe he has the plan in his head and the best way to proceed would be build a unit production line that could be duplicated anywhere, as often as required.

    • clovis ray

      Hi,Adrian,
      Do you have a link, to where he said he had completed a robo factory, because i don’t remember that, link please,
      Planning permit, pre existing building,power will already there,delivery of robos on their way, staff, already to go, warehouse, and shipping, peace of cake,
      Why would you possibly think, he has not taken care of all these things, do you think he started yesterday, sounds to me you don’t know what your talking about, you need to catch up, on his background, do you really think you could tell Dr.R ,What is best, i don’t think so,

  • AdrianAshfield

    A word of caution on the time line. Rossi has said he was ready to mass produce E-Cats before. Having built complete factories in the past I know there are many delays. You have to get planning permission (2 months?), then build the building, supply it with power, order and get delivery of the robots, set them up and debug the line, obtain and train the staff, QC and testing, warehouse and shipping etc.
    As it doesn’t sound like he has actually received any of the above, I would be surprised if it could be put together in under nine months – by the end of 2016.
    As he is smart, I believe he has the plan in his head and the best way to proceed would be build a unit production line that could be duplicated anywhere, as often as required. Safer to do it that way too. When a line goes down you don’t lose everything.

    • clovis ray

      Hi,Adrian,
      Do you have a link, to where he said he had completed a robo factory, because i don’t remember that, link please,
      Planning permit, pre existing building,power will already there,delivery of robos on their way, staff, already to go, warehouse, and shipping, peace of cake,
      Why would you possibly think, he has not taken care of all these things, do you think he started yesterday, sounds to me you don’t know what your talking about, you need to catch up, on his background, do you really think you could tell Dr.R ,What is best, i don’t think so,

      • Brent Buckner

        I suggest that you review how many times Rossi has underestimated how long something will take.

        • clovis ray

          well, all I have to say is, when producing something that has never been discovered, all kind of thing can happen to put a detour in your plans. it is very unusual, for things to run smoothly, and corrections has to be made, when you start scrutinizing every word he writes ,you are bound to see mistakes, mistakes and failure are command occurrences for people that are changing the world, if you can’t help don’t stand in the way of people that are.

          • Brent Buckner

            Right, so “a word of caution on the timeline”, as Adrian Ashfield gave us, seems to me to be sound. It doesn’t seem to me to be standing in the way of Rossi changing the world, rather it seems to me to help people in their planning.

          • clovis ray

            sorry, it’s everything but SOUND, hardly credible at all, as i see it.

      • Brent Buckner

        Rossi in August 2011 expecting to sell E-cats in November 2011: http://coldfusionnow.org/rossi-response-on-defkalion-split/

        Report from January 2012 on Rossi expecting mass production in Autumn of 2012: http://www.matrixwissen.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1257&catid=296&Itemid=521&lang=en&responsivizer_template=responsivizer

    • NCkhawk

      Not to mention the financing required for such an endeavor. In addition, if he is producing Tritium as Roger Green implies in his brochure, and provided that he can get thru the compliance and certification gauntlet, then none of his factory output will be available for legal export.

  • US_Citizen71

    “Rossi shows his insulation strategy in the pictures.” – Really I guess I missed the cross sectional cutout pictures that show the thickness and type of insulation used around the pipes, reactors and heat exchangers. Can you link to those photos? If you are referring to Rossi standing next to the reactors with a lab coat that just speaks to how well the system is insulated from the environment of the room containing it.

    “If his COP is 6 then he is generating the approx. equivalent of burning 2+ tons of coal per day to make his 24MWh production claimed in the test.” – The reactors do not burn anything, so inference to a system that has insulation problems due to air and fuel intake access and an exhaust chimney matters not. The only holes in the insulation are for the wiring harness and the heat loss there can be combated by engineering such as heat sinks on the wiring harness that dump their heat into the incoming water flow.

    “The system efficiency and heat exchange also depends on pressures which dramatically shifts system needs up or down.” – What does the internal pressures have to do with the R-value of the insulation surrounding the system?

    “I’m simply saying that I don’t see that he has the engineering built in to the system in the pictures to handle that kind of heat generation.” – What is it that you are expecting to be able to see besides the insulation on the pipes coming and going?

    It seems that you are grasping at any straw to build an argument to support your preconceived notion that the room should be hot.

  • clovis ray

    why, how would that help, them to market, they are not concerned with the public, and could care less about what they think right now, all that, will come later,
    you have to keep in mind that this is a private company, with no strings attached,
    so leverage is non-existent,against this group

  • Alan DeAngelis

    This is a real paradigm shift. Eventually, QuarkXs will to be used to run the robots. Manufacturing costs will drop like crazy as the whole supply chain for the production of QuarkXs becomes powered by QuarkXs.

    What will the rich folks do when everyone becomes rich?

    • How is everyone going to be rich when there will be so much unemployment? Automation will take over everything, including farm labor, and the USA with its open border anarchy is being flooded with people who will never be able to understand high technology.

      • Jag Kaurah

        No agriculture becomes much more efficient and agricultural land used drops dramatically.

        This is what we are working on

        • fjutt

          Please elaborate so i understand.

          • As agriculture becomes more efficient and industrialised, the area of land required to produce any given amount of food decreases. So the total land area in use by agriculture either remains roughly the same to keep up with increasing demand, or falls if demand remains constant.

            In theory, as LENR will allow widespread increased use of hydroponics, which requires relatively little land, the area under cultivation will decrease. Things are rarely that simple of course, and demand for ‘natural grown’ food could become a major factor determining land use in richer countries (meaning already having a strong technological base in infrastructure and education).

          • psi2u2

            LENR may dramatically facilitate urban agriculture and locallized hydroponics.

          • Jag Kaurah

            Great comments Agaricus and psi2u2.

            Actually it can get a lot better than that. Take just one example – about 80% of the agricultural land globally is grazing land. In terms of producing proteins, microalgae can produce about 300 times (30,000%) more protein per acre/hectare per year and it is a much healthier protein with all the essential amino acids and none of the negatives of meat. The meat can be reconstituted from this protein so people do not have to change their habits.

            There is a lot more that can happen to agriculture if energy is low cost – take another example; automated multi-story factory type farms with several growing layers in each story.

            Anyone really interested to discuss in depth can contact me at jagkaurah (@) gmail.com

          • psi2u2

            Very interesting set off facts. I had no idea of the vast productive advantage of algae (is “micro” algae a special kind?). We already have young African American entrepreneurs in Baltimore pioneering urban agriculture projects so it would cool to see LENR providing a big boost in feasibility through cheap heat and electricity!

          • Jag Kaurah

            Algae are divided into 2 groups – macro, normally known as seaweed and micro, which are far more interesting. Microalgae are tiny but multiply very fast and just as important they have a vast genetic base such that we can get all basic molecules from them including carbs, protein, oils…….

            The advantage of low cost electricity through LENR will accelerate the current trend towards microalgae My hope is to return a lot of land to nature while improving human welfare.

            The problem for young entrepreneurs going into microalgae maybe capex. Smallest microalgae projects would start at about $ 2 million not counting the land and buildings.

            Baltimore has low total annual solar radiation compared to say southern California, so growth using sunlight would be lower but low cost electricity means we could use artificial lighting.

            would be delighted to help if that kind of money is within their range

          • Omega Z

            Not all protein is created equal.

            That said, Meat will be grown in labs to meet increasing demand within 20 years. However, it will be mixed with natural raised meat production.

            It is similar to greenhouse grown produce. It’s nutritional value is not the same.(Better in some respects and not so much in others.) However, by including both in your food intake, there is not any (known) issue.

            On another note, If the current birth trends of the last 50 years continue through to 2100, The World population will be 1 Billion less then today. Food production will not be an issue.

          • Jag Kaurah

            Please see discussion below

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Democratic Socialism. Bernie.

      • g

        Easy. Dissociate income from work

        • That reminds me of the last scene in the 1937 Marx Brother’s film, *A Day at the Races*. The favored horse wins the race and everyone dances around with money in their hands laughing. 🙂

          • psi2u2

            Chris, perhaps you’re not aware that several governments in the world are already contemplating this move. If the human race is going to survive robotization, G’s proposal will be necessary.

          • http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12035946/Finland-is-considering-giving-every-citizen-800-a-month.html

            When the USA has a budget surplus and tons of money piled up with nothing to do, then sure why not give it away to US citizens. Right now the USA is bankrupt, deep in red ink, and surviving day to day on borrowed money from China and Japan, and money the Federal Reserve creates out of thin air. That situation cannot possibly last.

          • Skip

            Our Feerless Leader’s dad played with this idea, and found it appropriate and economical. There was speculation that it would come as a surprise on the recent Canadian budget, but unfortunately no.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Well, how come we did not have much unemployed before? What has changed?

        I mean, with the introduction of mechanized farming that used to employ 80% or more of the people, we now have what 3% farming in the USA? This resulted in a HUGE economic boom as people moved into factories and cities.

        In the 1980’s we another HUGE economic boom based on the computer revolution. All of a sudden a business with 40 employees could run payroll with 1 person in place of say 5 people. The cost of doing business had thus been lowered.

        And we now use LESS paper per person then we did in the past. And we also use much less oil per persons also! (in other words, technology makes us more efficient and allows people to do more with a given set of resources – that results in increased standard of living and wealth creating).

        Every time in history we introduce robots or automation (such as tractors on a farm) or computers into an office, the results is a SIGNIFICANT rising of standard of livings.

        We did not lose all the middle classes and manufacturing jobs in the USA due to automation or robots. As above shows, automation in farming or business increased job creating.

        The simple matter is, introducing computers, Robots, automation will NOT help your economy if you have a broken trade policy.

        We lost all our middle class jobs to open and free trade policies. Open trade policies have decimated middle class as jobs are exported to everywhere else.

        This open trade experiment of the last 30 has shown to a disaster.

        I mean, if 80% of your society was working in some area of the economy, and you moved it down to 3%, then one would assume everyone would have no work. In fact the reverse occurs – those 80% of people can now go on to build cars, radios, or walk your dogs.

        Or you setup a company that uses Robots to walk your dog. And since the cost is less to run that business, then MORE people can NOW afford a dog walking service (today, only upper middle class can afford these services). Of course, while most of the dog walking will be done by robots, you still need some people to take the dog out of the cage etc. Someone to take the dog from the customer etc. The result is MORE overall employment. And now the averge person can afford to have a dog walker! And this applies to near anything you can think of that you purchase or consume.

        Of course, if you’re purchasing the manufactured goods (or service) from outside of your economy, then you sending money and resources out of your economy. Thus any goods you purchase come from outside, then you not even creating tax dollars for the government to give back to you or spend on health and education, or even to help the poor.

        There is NEVER been an economy that flourished in an open trade environment – never!!

        So automation and lower cost energy will most certainly provide HUGE economic boost to jobs and wealth, but ONLY IF your economy keeps that wealth. If you purchase everything from another economy, then then the jobs and wealth creating as a result of the technology will occur at the point of origin of that goods or services created – not at the point of consumption.

        We are consuming, but not producing – that is the basic reason why we lost most of the middle class.

        The fact of being “more” efficient with automation always creates jobs and wealth, but only at the point of origin where such technology being used to create those goods.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • The missing part of your equation is that the Third World is an unlimited baby factory and a significant portion of the Third World wants to come here so that we can solve their economic problems for them. Without border security, none of the good things you hope for will turn out as promised. As long as the USA makes the anarchy of open borders a political goal, then everything gained from LENR and other technologies will be lost to the costs of feeding, housing, and providing infrastructure for invaders, which will also damage our environment even more. Remember, immigrants fill out forms and wait in line and obey laws. Invaders just break in and take what they want. Canada is in far better shape as the USA acts as a security buffer on its southern border. The USA has no buffer. The USA is in decay and collapse, and even the amount of “National Socialism” we currently have is not sustainable under the stressful and destructive conditions of border anarchy. The USA is no longer really a nation. It is a house that is on fire. People are fooling themselves if they think LENR will solve all of our problems.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            I have to much agree.
            The simple solution is to have those poor countries adopt our system of capitalism. And in any modern industrial society the birth rate plummets.

            So LENR does hold out great hope for poorer nations to industrialize and dramatic raise their standards of living. And like free trade, free immigration is also a disaster. Europe is fast realizing the folly of un-checked immigration.

            With the rise of socialism which has failed everywhere it’s been adopted, then LENR of its own will not solve our economic problems no more than computers will.
            However LENR will still help in HUGE ways. LENR in in theory allow a rather socialist economy to function quite well.

            Regards
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canadam

          • Bob Tivnan

            “the Third World wants to come here so that we can solve their economic problems for them”. The fact that you make this statement on E-Cat WORLD attests to your xenophobia. News flash- the Internet is not American and “here” is nonsensical in this forum. A pro-Trump website might be more receptive to your ethnocentric babble. This technology is not about making any one nation great (again).

          • Please, do not assume you know who I am going to vote for. At this point in time, even I do not know who I will vote for, only who I will never vote for. I do not like any of the current presidential candidates. The idea that any person who wants secure borders is xenophobic is absurd. A nation is not a nation without borders, and borders are supposed to mean something. Very few Americans would blame Mexico or China for kicking out Americans who enter their country illegally, but somehow many people think that the USA is the only nation on Earth that is not entitled to secure borders and laws that must be obeyed. Anarchy does not work in Somalia and it does not work in the USA.
            LENR cannot overcome the destruction of anarchy. I just think we should be honest and understand that we face many problems that LENR cannot cure.

          • psi2u2

            “The idea that any person who wants secure borders is xenophobic is absurd.”

            Right, but a number of your other comments do suggest that you are wearing xenophobic lenses and tend to view the world from a rather ethnocentric perspective and expect others to accept your fiats without evidence.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            We talking about the economic impact of LENR. The simple matter is yes, people living in a big pile of garbage and poverty want to go where things are better. That no some xenophobia, but a simple observation of humans.

            For what reason would any human not want to move to where things are better? Attempting to turn a basic observation of human nature into something else is silly on your part (you are attempting to deflect this basic issue).

            The fact that people don’t want to live in a garbage dump all their lives is NOT a political statement in any way.

            LENR can bring food, water and increased standards of living to millions of people. In fact, LENR can solve the immigration problem by creating wealth and a decent standard of living for people no matter where they are living now.

            In fact, this is why most here are so passionate
            about LENR – it can do more to help the poor of the world than any other technology.

            Unless we solve the problems in those counties then yes, they all continue to want to leave their garbage dumps and come to a place where such problems already been solved for them.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Bob Tivnan

            I take issue with your premise that developed nations will become the primary beneficiaries of LENR, leading to a wave of illegal immigration. Certainly, IH has taken a different view of who will be the early adopters of LENR. Sorry, but I have more confidence in their appraisal of the economic outlook for new energy technology than your opinions, which seem to presume that wealthy nations are somehow entitled to first dibs. On the contrary, if the USA is late to the party (which seems likely to me) and fails to devise an economic strategy to transition from fossil fuels to the new energy paradigm, we may be talking about immigration in the other direction 20 years from now.

          • cashmemorz

            From what is mentioned in the “Manhattan LENR Project” that was run by the some big name individuals in the USA government, the First big LENR project (GENIE reactor using raw uranium ore without residual radioactivity) run by those individuals will benefit both the USA and the island of GUAM. Guam is a USA territory but many of its inhabitants are of low income.

          • cashmemorz
          • Omega Z

            Bob,

            It’s not about first dibs. Developed countries are just better positioned to adapt financially. Keep in mind, the energy will be cheap, but the hardware cost will be the same for all. Likely as not, you will have a lot of NGO’s using Western Government donations to help distribute/build out this technology. In short, a continuation of wealth redistribution as is already taking place.

            Keep in mind, less developed countries have less need at this time. They don’t have all the electrical uses (appliances and such) that the developewd world has. This will take years. On the otherhand, even tho it will take years, it will be years less then would happen otherwise.

            Note, Desalination and water treatment plants and all else involved will not be cheaper. Only cheaper to operate once built. Not to make light of this, Many of these facilities are not built due to the lack of power to begin with. And others due to the fact that even when power is available, it is still to costly.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Yes I am suggesting that less industrialized nations likely can benefit from this technology MORE then the developed west. This does not mean the west won’t benefit more.

            Underdeveloped nations lack affordable energy and this holds back industrialization. Our western economies were built up with VERY low cost energy over many years. Today our energy costs are likely TOO high to start that industrial process from the ground up. (wood, then coal, then oil then electricity etc. takes LONG time).

            LENR solves the above problem – low energy costs again! That will enable those poor nations to now industrialize and skip multiple steps in energy adoption that is “typically” required to industrialize a nation.

            However, your second point suggesting that this new energy will cause more immigration is 100% backwards as to my MAIN point.

            I not sure where the train fell off the tracks, but if people have clean water, energy, and a decent standard of living, and hope for a better future, then there is ZERO need to immigrate!

            So you have my main point 100% backwards!

            I am suggesting that LENR can solve the immigration from places that are a giant
            hole of garbage and poverty into a place in which those people can proposer.

            If people are doing well, then the need to immigrate is much eliminated, and I think LENR is one of the most significant technologies that will allow poorer nations to prosper.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • clovis ray

        we are not being flooded, the republicans has ruined this country, we are taking it back, from the losers and putting it back on our feet, again, then we will have room for the farm workers, and everything will be good again.

    • I don’t think the basic economic mathematics and the availability of natural resources will allow everyone to become rich unless we have a drastic reduction in world population and birth rates and a dramatic increase in average intelligence created by genetic engineering. Right now average IQs in the USA are dropping like a rock. “Democratic Socialism” only works when everyone in the nation, or almost everyone, has intelligence and some degree of honesty and sense of responsibility. The USA is a war zone of races, religions, conflicting ideology, and we are doing everything we can to make matters worse, not better.

      • LarryJ

        An IQ of 100 indicates an intelligence that is the norm for a population. If everyone gets dumber then they will still all have an IQ of 100. IQ tests are also known to be imperfect and can allow cultural influences to skew their results which tends to make minorities look dumber than the majority when quite possibly the opposite is true. As Mark Twain once said, There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

        It is also well known that birth rates drop as standards of living rise. Even China has had to relax its one child policy because they know that their population is aging and the writing is on the wall. If Cold Fusion allows the standard of living to rise world wide then birth rates for the world could fall to a rate that would cause world population to fall not rise. The day could soon come when all countries will offer incentives to people to leave their home countries and emigrate. I assume this is why Angela Merkel was so welcoming of Syrians. Germany needs these people, even though the existing population fears them.

        Your view sounds very xenophobic.

        • It is the people who create a nation. If you fill Germany up with Syrians, Germany will become Syria, not Germany. The president of Mexico has already been quoted several times referring to the USA as “the other Mexico.” I think you are well meaning, but you do not fully visualize the long term consequences of your ideas. I have traveled extensively in many Third World nations and I do not want the USA to become what they are. Nations come and go through world history, and cultures are often destroyed by gradual foreign invasion. If you take it all as a joke and cling to our politically correct plan for national suicide, our grandchildren will suffer greatly, and our economy and people are already suffering tremendously because of lawless border anarchy. Our current philosophy of submission without a fight will end America, not save it.

          • LarryJ

            As a Canadian living next door to the cultural behemoth that is the USA I am pretty well in tune with concerns over cultural identity and I sympathize with your position but the world is more and more becoming a global village. It is inevitable I think that we will soon share a common culture. The original American culture is the American native culture which has long since faded from sight as will the current American culture one day. Time marches on and xenophobia will not stop it but may add to the pain. Better I think to embrace the future and the diverse cultures you will soon be living with.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          “The general was appalled when they told him that half his soldiers were below average IQ” 🙂

      • Omega Z

        http://www.google.com/patents/US20140326711#classifications

        Patent # US20140326711A1
        Applicant : Industrial Heat
        Inventors: Andrea Rossi
        Assignee: Leonardo Corporation

        Clicking Classification goes to bottom of page find this number-> G21B 3/00
        Click on G21B 3/00 takes you to this page-

        http://web2.wipo.int/classifications/ipc/ipcpub/#refresh=page&notion=scheme&version=20130101&symbol=G21B0003000000

        You’ll find
        Low-temperature nuclear fusion reactors, e.g. alleged cold fusion reactors [2006.01]
        ———————————————————————-
        The above is referenced to patent WO2015127263 A3 that also refers to G21B 3/00
        http://www.google.com/patents/WO2015127263A3?cl=en

        Applicant: Industrial Heat, Llc
        Inventors: Andrea Rossi, Thomas Barker DAMERON

    • Alan DeAngelis
    • ‘What will the rich folks do…’ The same thing they do every time the oiks get uppity – arrange a financial crisis and steal all their money under the pretext of fixing the problem they created.

    • Omega Z

      There will always be some limits to separate the classes.
      Note in the UK they created the Queens English to distinguish the commons from the Elite.
      But most important, they will be in charge.
      Wealth and Power has always been about Power.

      • DrD

        Well to start with, the utility companies buy my electricity for about 4p/unit but charge me about 18p/unit. Selling energy is not a good deal.
        Then there’s the auto and aviation markets which could use his Cat’s instead of batteries so how would he get into those? I believe that profit and personal gain is not his only motivation.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    This is a real paradigm shift. Eventually, QuarkXs will to be used to run the robots. Manufacturing costs will drop like crazy as the whole supply chain for the production of QuarkXs becomes powered by QuarkXs.

    What will the rich folks do when everyone becomes rich?

    • NCkhawk

      The real question is what happens when mass consumption is unleashed should LENR technology become a ubiquitous commercially reality? Will many of the remaining forests be cut down to build all the 2nd and 3rd houses that certain parts of the world will seek to acquire with their new wealth? Perhaps oil can be used as a building material.

      • Jag Kaurah

        No agriculture becomes much more efficient and agricultural land used drops dramatically.

        This is what we are working on

        • fjutt

          Please elaborate so i understand.

          • As agriculture becomes more efficient and industrialised, the area of land required to produce any given amount of food decreases. So the total land area in use by agriculture either remains roughly the same to keep up with increasing demand, or falls if demand remains constant.

            In theory, as LENR will allow widespread increased use of hydroponics, which requires relatively little land, the area under cultivation will decrease. Things are rarely that simple of course, and demand for ‘natural grown’ food could become a major factor determining land use in richer countries (meaning already having a strong technological base in infrastructure and education).

          • psi2u2

            LENR may dramatically facilitate urban agriculture and locallized hydroponics.

          • Jag Kaurah

            Great comments Agaricus and psi2u2.

            Actually it can get a lot better than that. Take just one example – about 80% of the agricultural land globally is grazing land. In terms of producing proteins, microalgae can produce about 300 times (30,000%) more protein per acre/hectare per year and it is a much healthier protein with all the essential amino acids and none of the negatives of meat. The meat can be reconstituted from this protein so people do not have to change their habits.

            There is a lot more that can happen to agriculture if energy is low cost – take another example; automated multi-story factory type farms with several growing layers in each story.

            Anyone really interested to discuss in depth can contact me at jagkaurah (@) gmail.com

          • psi2u2

            Very interesting set off facts. I had no idea of the vast productive advantage of algae (is “micro” algae a special kind?). We already have young African American entrepreneurs in Baltimore pioneering urban agriculture projects so it would cool to see LENR providing a big boost in feasibility through cheap heat and electricity!

          • Jag Kaurah

            Algae are divided into 2 groups – macro, normally known as seaweed and micro, which are far more interesting. Microalgae are tiny but multiply very fast and just as important they have a vast genetic base such that we can get all basic molecules from them including carbs, protein, oils…….

            The advantage of low cost electricity through LENR will accelerate the current trend towards microalgae My hope is to return a lot of land to nature while improving human welfare.

            The problem for young entrepreneurs going into microalgae maybe capex. Smallest microalgae projects would start at about $ 2 million not counting the land and buildings.

            Baltimore has low total annual solar radiation compared to say southern California, so growth using sunlight would be lower but low cost electricity means we could use artificial lighting.

            would be delighted to help if that kind of money is within their range

          • Omega Z

            Not all protein is created equal.

            That said, Meat will be grown in labs to meet increasing demand within 20 years. However, it will be mixed with natural raised meat production.

            It is similar to greenhouse grown produce. It’s nutritional value is not the same.(Better in some respects and not so much in others.) However, by including both in your food intake, there is not any (known) issue.

            On another note, If the current birth trends of the last 50 years continue through to 2100, The World population will be 1 Billion less then today. Food production will not be an issue.

          • Jag Kaurah

            Please see discussion below

      • Brent Buckner

        I doubt that net forest loss scenario in light of the U.S. experience (“total forest area has been relatively stable for the last 100 years” – per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forests_of_the_United_States )

      • Pekka Janhunen

        It’s one good question. Another similar thing is that if energy becomes cheap, one should invest into developing materials that use common elements such as aluminium, magnesium and silicon as opposed to stainless steel, for example, even if refining them is energy intensive. The need to start discussing topics like these is why Mats is arranging his symposium in June, I understood.

        • Omega Z

          Polymers made from fossil sources and stone.(Synthetic concrete) Buildings that last 5000 to 25000 years. The timeline for this transition and tree farming is sustainable especially as far less wood will be utilized per building.. Synthetic concrete. The science is already known. Energy cost has been the issue in implementation…

      • roseland67

        NC,

        Really? That’s the real question? Really?
        Now you’re really reaching amigo.
        The only real question is does the Ecat actually work and if it does, when will it be introduced?

    • How is everyone going to be rich when there will be so much unemployment? Automation will take over everything, including farm labor, and the USA with its open border anarchy is being flooded with people who will never be able to understand high technology.

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Democratic Socialism. Bernie.

      • g

        Easy. Dissociate income from work

        • That reminds me of the last scene in the 1937 Marx Brother’s film, *A Day at the Races*. The favored horse wins the race and everyone dances around with money in their hands laughing. 🙂

          • psi2u2

            Chris, perhaps you’re not aware that several governments in the world are already contemplating this move. If the human race is going to survive robotization, G’s proposal will be necessary.

          • http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12035946/Finland-is-considering-giving-every-citizen-800-a-month.html

            When the USA has a budget surplus and tons of money piled up with nothing to do, then sure why not give it away to US citizens. Right now the USA is bankrupt, deep in red ink, and surviving day to day on borrowed money from China and Japan, and money the Federal Reserve creates out of thin air. That situation cannot possibly last.

          • Skip

            Our Feerless Leader’s dad played with this idea, and found it appropriate and economical. There was speculation that it would come as a surprise on the recent Canadian budget, but unfortunately no.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Well, how come we did not have much unemployed before? What has changed?

        I mean, with the introduction of mechanized farming that used to employ 80% or more of the people, we now have what 3% farming in the USA? This resulted in a HUGE economic boom as people moved into factories and cities.

        In the 1980’s we another HUGE economic boom based on the computer revolution. All of a sudden a business with 40 employees could run payroll with 1 person in place of say 5 people. The cost of doing business had thus been lowered.

        And we now use LESS paper per person then we did in the past. And we also use much less oil per persons also! (in other words, technology makes us more efficient and allows people to do more with a given set of resources – that results in increased standard of living and wealth creating).

        Every time in history we introduce robots or automation (such as tractors on a farm) or computers into an office, the results is a SIGNIFICANT rising of standard of livings.

        We did not lose all the middle classes and manufacturing jobs in the USA due to automation or robots. As above shows, automation in farming or business increased job creating.

        The simple matter is, introducing computers, Robots, automation will NOT help your economy if you have a broken trade policy.

        We lost all our middle class jobs to open and free trade policies. Open trade policies have decimated middle class as jobs are exported to everywhere else.

        This open trade experiment of the last 30 has shown to a disaster.

        I mean, if 80% of your society was working in some area of the economy, and you moved it down to 3%, then one would assume everyone would have no work. In fact the reverse occurs – those 80% of people can now go on to build cars, radios, or walk your dogs.

        Or you setup a company that uses Robots to walk your dog. And since the cost is less to run that business, then MORE people can NOW afford a dog walking service (today, only upper middle class can afford these services). Of course, while most of the dog walking will be done by robots, you still need some people to take the dog out of the cage etc. Someone to take the dog from the customer etc. The result is MORE overall employment. And now the averge person can afford to have a dog walker! And this applies to near anything you can think of that you purchase or consume.

        Of course, if you’re purchasing the manufactured goods (or service) from outside of your economy, then you sending money and resources out of your economy. Thus any goods you purchase come from outside, then you not even creating tax dollars for the government to give back to you or spend on health and education, or even to help the poor.

        There is NEVER been an economy that flourished in an open trade environment – never!!

        So automation and lower cost energy will most certainly provide HUGE economic boost to jobs and wealth, but ONLY IF your economy keeps that wealth. If you purchase everything from another economy, then then the jobs and wealth creating as a result of the technology will occur at the point of origin of that goods or services created – not at the point of consumption.

        We are consuming, but not producing – that is the basic reason why we lost most of the middle class.

        The fact of being “more” efficient with automation always creates jobs and wealth, but only at the point of origin where such technology being used to create those goods.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • The missing part of your equation is that the Third World is an unlimited baby factory and a significant portion of the Third World wants to come here so that we can solve their economic problems for them. Without border security, none of the good things you hope for will turn out as promised. As long as the USA makes the anarchy of open borders a political goal, then everything gained from LENR and other technologies will be lost to the costs of feeding, housing, and providing infrastructure for invaders, which will also damage our environment even more. Remember, immigrants fill out forms and wait in line and obey laws. Invaders just break in and take what they want. Canada is in far better shape as the USA acts as a security buffer on its southern border. The USA has no buffer. The USA is in decay and collapse, and even the amount of “Democratic Socialism” we currently have is not sustainable under the stressful and destructive conditions of border anarchy. The USA is no longer really a nation. It is a house that is on fire. People are fooling themselves if they think LENR will solve all of our problems.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            I have to much agree.
            The simple solution is to have those poor countries adopt our system of capitalism. And in any modern industrial society the birth rate plummets.

            So LENR does hold out great hope for poorer nations to industrialize and dramatic raise their standards of living. And like free trade, free immigration is also a disaster. Europe is fast realizing the folly of un-checked immigration.

            With the rise of socialism which has failed everywhere it’s been adopted, then LENR of its own will not solve our economic problems no more than computers will.
            However LENR will still help in HUGE ways. LENR in in theory allow a rather socialist economy to function quite well.

            Regards
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canadam

          • Bob Tivnan

            “the Third World wants to come here so that we can solve their economic problems for them”. The fact that you make this statement on E-Cat WORLD attests to your xenophobia. News flash- the Internet is not American and “here” is nonsensical in this forum. A pro-Trump website might be more receptive to your ethnocentric babble. This technology is not about making any one nation great (again).

          • Please, do not assume you know who I am going to vote for. At this point in time, even I do not know who I will vote for, only who I will never vote for. I do not like any of the current presidential candidates. The idea that any person who wants secure borders is xenophobic is absurd. A nation is not a nation without borders, and borders are supposed to mean something. Very few Americans would blame Mexico or China for kicking out Americans who enter their country illegally, but somehow many people think that the USA is the only nation on Earth that is not entitled to secure borders and laws that must be obeyed. Anarchy does not work in Somalia and it does not work in the USA.
            LENR cannot overcome the destruction of anarchy. I just think we should be honest and understand that we face many problems that LENR cannot cure.

          • psi2u2

            “The idea that any person who wants secure borders is xenophobic is absurd.”

            Right, but a number of your other comments do suggest that you are wearing xenophobic lenses and tend to view the world from a rather ethnocentric perspective and expect others to accept your fiats without evidence.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            We talking about the economic impact of LENR. The simple matter is yes, people living in a big pile of garbage and poverty want to go where things are better. That no some xenophobia, but a simple observation of humans.

            For what reason would any human not want to move to where things are better? Attempting to turn a basic observation of human nature into something else is silly on your part (you are attempting to deflect this basic issue).

            The fact that people don’t want to live in a garbage dump all their lives is NOT a political statement in any way.

            LENR can bring food, water and increased standards of living to millions of people. In fact, LENR can solve the immigration problem by creating wealth and a decent standard of living for people no matter where they are living now.

            In fact, this is why most here are so passionate
            about LENR – it can do more to help the poor of the world than any other technology.

            Unless we solve the problems in those counties then yes, they all continue to want to leave their garbage dumps and come to a place where such problems already been solved for them.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Bob Tivnan

            I take issue with your premise that developed nations will become the primary beneficiaries of LENR, leading to a wave of illegal immigration. Certainly, IH has taken a different view of who will be the early adopters of LENR. Sorry, but I have more confidence in their appraisal of the economic outlook for new energy technology than your opinions, which seem to presume that wealthy nations are somehow entitled to first dibs. On the contrary, if the USA is late to the party (which seems likely to me) and fails to devise an economic strategy to transition from fossil fuels to the new energy paradigm, we may be talking about immigration in the other direction 20 years from now.

          • cashmemorz

            From what is mentioned in the “Manhattan LENR Project” that was run by the some big name individuals in the USA government, the First big LENR project (GENIE reactor using raw uranium ore without residual radioactivity) run by those individuals will benefit both the USA and the island of GUAM. Guam is a USA territory but many of its inhabitants are of low income.

          • cashmemorz
          • Omega Z

            Bob,

            It’s not about first dibs. Developed countries are just better positioned to adapt financially. Keep in mind, the energy will be cheap, but the hardware cost will be the same for all. Likely as not, you will have a lot of NGO’s using Western Government donations to help distribute/build out this technology. In short, a continuation of wealth redistribution as is already taking place.

            Keep in mind, less developed countries have less need at this time. They don’t have all the electrical uses (appliances and such) that the developewd world has. This will take years. On the otherhand, even tho it will take years, it will be years less then would happen otherwise.

            Note, Desalination and water treatment plants and all else involved will not be cheaper. Only cheaper to operate once built. Not to make light of this, Many of these facilities are not built due to the lack of power to begin with. And others due to the fact that even when power is available, it is still to costly.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Yes I am suggesting that less industrialized nations likely can benefit from this technology MORE then the developed west. This does not necessary mean the west won’t benefit huge from LENR – it will!

            Underdeveloped nations lack affordable energy and this holds back industrialization. Our western economies were built up with VERY low cost energy over many years. Today our energy costs are likely TOO high to start that industrial process from the ground up. (wood, then coal, then oil then electricity etc. takes LONG time).

            LENR solves the above problem – low energy costs again! That will enable those poor nations to now industrialize and skip multiple steps in energy adoption that is “typically” required to industrialize a nation.

            However, your second point suggesting that this new energy will cause more immigration is 100% backwards as to my MAIN point.

            I not sure where the train fell off the tracks, but if people have clean water, energy, and a decent standard of living, and hope for a better future, then there is ZERO need to immigrate!

            So you have my main point 100% backwards!

            I am suggesting that LENR can solve the immigration from places that are a giant
            hole of garbage and poverty into a place in which those people can proposer.

            If people are doing well, then the need to immigrate is much eliminated, and I think LENR is one of the most significant technologies that will allow poorer nations to prosper.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • g

            How about doing away with debt based economy altogether? You see, very few want to leave their homeland. They do it because someone ruined them. Where do these immigrants come from? Somalia, afghanistan, syria, borthern africa in general… lands that usa and nato destroyed. So, how about rebooting the system and change the basic premises? Instead of “perpetual growth for the privileged” (tell me it is not the case) lets change the goal to “comforts of civilisation for everyone as a human right”. It is feasible. So why not do it? Why keep this system of perpetual febt in place when it is obvious that it has failed? Ause we got to keep by all means “property rights” in place?

            We can not change the world by keeping it unchanged

          • Where does wealth come from? Does it come from government? What entity will distribute wealth to everyone, and what entity will create that wealth?

            Listen folks, I want to keep the discussion on LENR; I am just trying to point out that LENR technology is not a cure-all. This website should educate people about LENR, but it should not mislead people into thinking that LENR will solve all of our problems. LENR should be a tool, not a religion or a false hope. We have to fight many battles on many fronts to survive on this planet, and energy production technology is just part of the equation.

          • g

            Well… you started it

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Wealth comes from when an individual does and creates something more than the input cost of that action.

            If a company can make MORE money than the cost of hiring you, then they will hire as many people like that as possible until such time that hiring additional people will NOT make them money!

            I mean, why else would someone pay you for work, or something you have to offer?

            So if by a company hiring you, you make them money, they will fight to pay you!

            And it does not have to be a company hiring
            you! If you can grow some tomatoes, and if the value of those tomatoes is
            greater than the input costs, then you are creating wealth.

            The key concept here is that because you have a VERY nice car, this does not suggest that someone else goes without a car. Say during the summer you find an old rusted out 38 Chevy in your grandfather’s barn. It can sit there for years and continue to rot.

            Or you can spend all your spare time restoring that car to mint condition. When you drive around town with that beautiful car, people will admire you and say what a nice car! And someone might even offer you $75,000 for that car.

            The VERY important concept here is because you have that beautiful car, it does not suggest or means that someone else goes without that car BECAUSE YOU HAVE ONE!

            And in place of restoring that car, perhaps you start up a coffee shop, and use that money to purchase that beautiful car. The net result is the same – ie: your efforts created wealth to allow you to own a nice car.

            The concept here is that your labor or efforts created that car, and you having that car does not mean someone else goes without a car. Of course others seeing you have that nice car might want to take it away, or perhaps tax you more because they think it is unfair you have that nice car. And they justify this want to tax or take away your car because they been told that you have a nice car, and someone else now has to go without a nice car.

            Wealth creating thus does not mean that because you ate a burger, or have a nice car, that someone else goes without a burger or car – unless of course those without that car or burger want to take away your car or burger!

            At the end of the day, if you do nothing, then that 38 Chevy would remain a rusted hunk of metal without any value to anyone until such time efforts and labor are used to restore that car. You put your labor into that car, you now have a beautiful car that is the envy of the town. Or if fixing cars is not your gig, then grow tomatoes and buy that car. The result is the same thing – your wealth creating allowed to you own a nice car.

            So while socialists are all about taking that labor and efforts away from people, a capitalist realizes that it is efforts and labor that created the wealth that socialists want to take away from you! (and I thougt socialists did not believe in slavery! – when you consider taxes and deficit spending, they have in effect turned most working people into government slaves).

            Computers caused a boom in the 1980’s because it allowed business to be productive faster than governments were taking away the wealth such business were creating by adopting computers. However, adopting a new computer today will not increase your productivity much more then it did during the wealth creating boom that computers caused in the 1980’s
            Companies spend billions on software every year, they ONLY purchase that software because the cost of the software is LESS then the benefits received by purchasing that software.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • g

            The only difference between socialists and capitalists is that socialists expropriate the commons in favor of the state as opposed to capitalists who expropriate the commons in favor of private individuals.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            No the difference is socialist take that money and wealth by force. You don’t to jail for not purchasing a burger from MacDonald’s, but you do if you don’t pay the government.
            R
            Albert

          • g

            Wealth comes from different sources. And should be distributed by appointed institutions. It is simple if one gets over the impulse to perpetuate the familiar status. It is time we opened our minds in issues other than simply new energy sources

          • yes, time for a change. imo a guaranteed annual income is a must do if we are to fix our societal problems. whether or not LENR comes to be.

          • Omega Z

            A guaranteed annual income for a person would require a guaranteed annual input of labor from that person.

            In reality, Such guarantees are worthless.

          • clovis ray

            i thought it sounded like everyone has a job, doing what they like to do and educated for.
            Now that’s a world i would like to live in.

          • cashmemorz

            After a generation or two of everyone getting used to the idea it might work like Clovis says. Its the catch 22 that inflation puts a wrench into that theory. Maybe it might work if that problem of inflation is somehow mitigated.

          • no that’s not part of the deal. you’d get it for just being alive.

          • cashmemorz

            Worthless because giving everyone free$ leads to inflation. Merchants see more money available for basic needs raises prices for basic needs items. The guaranteed income people will be pay for basics even at mildly inflated prices because the basics have to be obtained. Inflation increases by ripple effect through economy. Slowly everything goes up in price. To cover the inflation more $ is printed and given to banks as the staring point for money infusion into the nations economy. Round and round like a snake biting its own tail.

          • Omega Z

            ->”lands that usa and nato destroyed.”

            Lands that were destroyed long before the USA and Nato existed. Lands of perpetual war for 1000’s of years.

          • clovis ray

            nope,

        • clovis ray

          well said Albert, and I agree 100%
          Albert, you and bill both are making good points and i enjoy reading your comments, christopher, you as well for portraying the other side with grace , respect, and civil discourse, you debate well, thanks as well to you..

        • BillH

          “There is NEVER been an economy that flourished in an open trade environment – never!!”

          I think you actually demolished your own argument there in the rest of your post.

          Country A buys a good or service from Country B because it’s cheaper than buying internally. Country B makes a profit on the sale of said goods and therefore does “flourish”, Country A also gets its goods for less and should also be happy.

          The complaint seems to be that jobs moving from country A to country be is somehow bad. On the contrary, it may increase country B level of technology and the ability of country A to sell them more advanced goods.

          The trick is in staying ahead of the game, and not sticking with technologies that have become outdated.

          • clovis ray

            Hi Bill
            Makes sense to me, well put.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Let’s not be silly here. Because I tell you that too much sun is bad, you switch that to meaning NEVER go out in the sun?

            The idea that I am suggesting a country does not trade to its benefit is beyond silly. What is this, a grade 1 discussion?

            When at what point in any time did I suggest trade is bad thing? I mean, really, just wow dogs barking in the night? So too much sun is bad now becomes NEVER go out in the sun? What kind of silly logical thinking is that?

            I simply stated that a nation that does not property manage it trade will go down the crap hole of losing their industrial base, and we seen that occur in the past 30 years.
            Prior to all of these silly open trade agreements North America had the strongest economy in the world by managing that trade.

            What economy are you talking about that has such a open trade policy that is doing well today? ANY economy doing well today has huge trade barrios in place, be they the result of regulations or that of culture issues.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • BillH

            I just quoted what you said and made a counter argument. Perhaps you meant to say that America has never flourished in an open trade environment, but who knows?

            No need to be insulting just because I pointed out something that I thought was wrong. I never mentioned anything about the sun.

      • cashmemorz

        E-CAT tech will make power very very cheap. Cheap power allows many products to be feasible to make where costly power makes such items too costly to make any money. Those many new products require many people to help with design, production, sales, distribution, maintenance to name a few areas where people can find work. This will put people out of work where high priced power like oil currently requires workers to produce that kind of costly power and the costly items that costly power allows to be made.

        • LarryJ

          Don’t forget the entirely new products and services that we can’t even imagine and which cold fusion will enable. The economy will grow as never before.

          • clovis ray

            HI, Larry,
            You’re correct, and thank you jesus, on this fine Easter day.
            Just about ever product will need E-cat, and that in return will make tons of jobs, just what the world needs , thank you so very much Dr. R, AND I/H, you guys are a God sent.

        • One thing that very cheap power can help with is recycling. One of the biggest costs to recycling is energy from what I read last year. Recycling of manufactured goods is already booming and proliferating. A zero waste society is completely obtainable with cheap energy.

          • BillH

            I think junk-yards will be around for the next millennia at least. People will always choose to recycle stuff that is easier because their is more money in it.

    • I don’t think the basic economic mathematics and the availability of natural resources will allow everyone to become rich unless we have a drastic reduction in world population and birth rates and a dramatic increase in average intelligence created by genetic engineering. Right now average IQs in the USA are dropping like a rock. “Democratic Socialism” only works when everyone in the nation, or almost everyone, has intelligence and some degree of honesty and sense of responsibility. The USA is a war zone of races, religions, conflicting ideology, and we are doing everything we can to make matters worse, not better.

      • Chris Calder wrote:

        “… the USA with its open border anarchy is being flooded with people who will never be able to understand high technology.”

        “Right now average IQs in the USA are dropping like a rock.”

        hmmmm….

        • That is a proven statistical fact. We have to face facts if we wish to find real solutions and survive in a world where the population bomb has already gone off. The current world population as of 3/26/2016 is over 7,411,238,000. people, far beyond the long term holding capacity of planet Earth. The idea that the USA can and should allow unlimited, never-ending legal immigration as well as massive illegal invasion is beyond the realm of rational thought. LENR and other new technologies will help, but they cannot solve of all our problems or make everyone rich and happy.

          • psi2u2

            “Right now average IQs in the USA are dropping like a rock.”

            “That is a proven statistical fact.”

            Hmm….

            Please cite your sources or don’t make such outlandish claims.

          • Actually a number of economists recommend the USA open it’s borders completely to anyone and everyone. The population would certainly soon double but it would provide a massive economic stimulus and create enormous amounts of wealth, which under the correct tax structure would lower the debt/GDP ratio tremendously.

            And compared to most countries the USA’s population density is low.

          • BillH

            When I suggested 600M Chinese moved to the USA just to balance up the World that didn’t seem to go down too well in certain circles.

          • clovis ray

            lol

          • LarryJ

            There is still plenty of empty room on the Earth. The problem is resources and as you well know we are on the cusp of a solution to that problem.

            Rich and happy are subjective terms and maybe it is possible for everyone to at least be rich. There are many people who think that if their basic needs are met that they are rich. Happiness of course is a state of mind which has nothing to do with material goods. One man’s heaven is another man’s hell.

          • cashmemorz

            It all eventually devolves or evolves to the subjective sense of power. At first it’s: how much power do I as an individual feel I have over my immediate environment. As my life improves it becomes keeping up with the Jones’s, then showing that I am better than the Jones’s. A billionaire is less satisfied with things as they are then is the person just meeting his basic needs. If applied to everyone by use of physical power via LENR or other means, where does it stop?

          • BillH

            It’s not what we(whoever we are?) allow to happen it’s what happens in actuality that matters.

        • clovis ray

          I don’t brelieve it.

      • LarryJ

        An IQ of 100 indicates an intelligence that is the norm for a population. If everyone gets dumber then they will still all have an IQ of 100. IQ tests are also known to be imperfect and can allow cultural influences to skew their results which tends to make minorities look dumber than the majority when quite possibly the opposite is true. As Mark Twain once said, There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

        It is also well known that birth rates drop as standards of living rise. Even China has had to relax its one child policy because they know that their population is aging and the writing is on the wall. If Cold Fusion allows the standard of living to rise world wide then birth rates for the world could fall to a rate that would cause world population to fall not rise. The day could soon come when all countries will offer incentives to people to leave their home countries and emigrate. I assume this is why Angela Merkel was so welcoming of Syrians. Germany needs these people, even though the existing population fears them.

        Your view sounds very xenophobic.

        • It is the people who create a nation. If you fill Germany up with Syrians, Germany will become Syria, not Germany. The president of Mexico has already been quoted several times referring to the USA as “the other Mexico.” I think you are well meaning, but you do not fully visualize the long term consequences of your ideas. I have traveled extensively in many Third World nations and I do not want the USA to become what they are. Nations come and go through world history, and cultures are often destroyed by gradual foreign invasion. If you take it all as a joke and cling to our politically correct plan for national suicide, our grandchildren will suffer greatly, and our economy and people are already suffering tremendously because of lawless border anarchy. Our current philosophy of submission without a fight will end America, not save it.

          • LarryJ

            As a Canadian living next door to the cultural behemoth that is the USA, I am pretty well in tune with concerns over cultural identity and I sympathize with your position but the world is more and more becoming a global village. It is inevitable I think that we will soon share a common culture. The original American culture is the American native culture which has long since faded from sight as will the current American culture one day. Time marches on and xenophobia will not stop it but may add to the pain. Better I think to embrace the future and the diverse cultures you will soon be living with.

          • yup that’s Xenophobic talk

        • Pekka Janhunen

          “The general was appalled when they told him that half his soldiers were below average IQ” 🙂

      • BillH

        About four times as many people are going to university than they did 40 years ago, so it appears, if you are right, that education makes you dumber!

        Stop education now!

    • Alan DeAngelis
      • cashmemorz

        Cosmic rays are a high frequency particle that might be amenable to frequency change by use of LENR effect. A lower frequency that can be used to light or heat or as radio transmission depending on the particular frequency it is changed to.

      • BillH

        Perhaps they just didn’t understand the question, and just chose their answer from the options given?

    • ‘What will the rich folks do…’ The same thing they do every time the oiks get uppity – arrange a financial crisis and steal all their money under the pretext of fixing the problem they created. Of course, that’s assuming that some small fraction of the financial gains by mistake somehow ends up in the pockets of the peasants in the first place.

    • orsobubu

      Nobody becomes rich of money (exchange value) with robots, because you cannot squeeze surplus value from machines, only from human work (wage work in case of capitalistic system). But everyone could become rich in the sense of material abundance (user value), So, as you note, rich people (bourgeois) must do something, because nobody on the Earth ever gave up his privileges without fighting: they will stop the paradigm shift in advance (at least, the social paradigm shift, aka revolution). War will be the outcome.

      • cashmemorz

        From the viewpoint that everything in the human social sphere devolves to the plane of power, yes, war of some kind could be used to keep those on power, in power. It is just the kind of war that is to be determined. Propaganda a la skepto-paths?

        • orsobubu

          Absolutely, war – in all its forms – is strictly and inescapably connected to capitalism. but I’m confident people will make war to the war and they will win in the end. A society leaded by an international, scientific world government without nations, without (wage) work and without money, full with intelliigent, LENR powered machines.

      • LarryJ

        I think it is more likely that the bourgeois will put their energy and money into employing Rossi’s very inexpensive products to enhance and power new products of their own and then using those products to try and control segments of the economy much like Google controls the search engine segment. This is a paradigm shift so it is very difficult to even imagine what new products might come into being. The opportunities for the bourgeois will be immense and since they tend to be well informed (a la Bill Gates) they will have already shifted out of energy and will be watching for the next opportunity. War is pointless and this shift cannot be stopped.

        • g

          There are already far too mamy products and far too little money to buy them. Plus that wont change cause there is not enough need for labor. The system is in serious need for reformation as far as normal everyday people are concerned. If rossi actually has something in his hands the important part will be the change of paradigm and mentality that will follow. Cheap, abundant and clean energy is not simply cost effective, it is potentially a catalyst for huge social revolution. That is why it is dangerous. Thats why debt is becoming more and more aggressive and possibly that is why so many immigrants are being driven away from their homes in our societies. IF rossi has something. Which still remains to be seen of course

        • orsobubu

          Adding to what g very smartly said, bourgeois can make the productivity shift, but it remains to be seen whether they could succeed in replace all workforce (capital) lost in obsolete factories. The problem is that past technical/scientific shift did not prevent the system to collapse in destructive conflicts, indeed they were enhanced instead. Also, it will not be sufficient a simple replacement; it will be necessary to multiply the proletary workforce, 1 because new LENR improved machines will do much more goods with much less work, with a surge in overproduction and fall in profits; 2 because in any case capitals HAVE TO INCREASE at least 2% yearly on average global scale to avoid synchronized crisis. In past shifts, capitalists made it by conquering to market economy immense new territories, which today are being overall already developed (and becoming serious competitors too). All these converging contradictions catalyzed by the technical shift, would require a corresponding social revolution, in the same manner as other major shifts in history were accomplished. So it is the social revolution -or the counter revolution – to be at stake, not the technologic paradigm shift. I already said that only an interplanetary/space colonies expansion could prevent this, but I cannot see in which way bourgeois, with their ridicuolus short term economic planning and inefficient financiarization and imperialistic/competitivity bottlenecks, could carry out this enormous task faster than crisis already looming at the horizon.

    • Omega Z

      There will always be some limits to separate the classes.
      Note in the UK they created the Queens English to distinguish the commons from the Elite.
      But most important, they will be in charge.
      Wealth and Power has always been about Power.

  • Brent Buckner

    I think if you revisit the timeline then you might see the claims as somewhat less outlandish.

    We’ve been told: the original 1MW plant had an array of 100 reactors of 10kW (so “only” two orders of magnitude difference to 100W). Further, the 1MW plant was an array of low temperature E-cats (aka E-cat LT).

    We’ve been told that the precursor of the E-cat X was the Hot Cat (aka E-cat HT), which was already being tested by others in 2013 (e.g. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing-of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/#4637308457e4 ).

  • LarryJ

    Rossi said that the 1 MW reactor using the quarkx will be closer to 1 cubic meter. I expect the containers will in the end be used for their original purpose, which is shipping.

  • Brent Buckner

    IH was in charge of the 1 year test. Perhaps they wanted cost information, robustness information, transmutation pathway information. Perhaps they wanted evidence to show customers with big industrial applications on the line.

  • Brent Buckner

    I doubt that net forest loss scenario in light of the U.S. experience (“total forest area has been relatively stable for the last 100 years” – per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forests_of_the_United_States )

  • US_Citizen71

    The 1 MW of heat energy leaves the plant in the form of steam inside of an insulated steam pipe that runs to some outside piece of equipment. That piece of equipment uses the steam heat energy and cools the steam dissipating the heat and condensing the steam back into water. The water then flows back into the plant and is heated back into steam removing more heat energy from the plant, starting the cycle over. What part of that do you not comprehend?

  • Brent Buckner

    You wrote: “So far, those skilled in the art do not appear to have been able to reproduce the issued patent in a working capacity”

    Perhaps not an attempt to reproduce the issued patent, but Parkhomov claimed success in replicating Rossi’s hot cat. (c.f. http://kb.e-catworld.com/index.php?title=Alexander_Parkhomov%27s_E-Cat_replication_experiments )

  • Pekka Janhunen

    It’s one good question. Another similar thing is that if energy becomes cheap, one should invest into developing materials that use common elements such as aluminium, magnesium and silicon as opposed to stainless steel, for example, even if refining them is energy intensive. The need to start discussing topics like these is why Mats is arranging his symposium in June, I understood.

    • Omega Z

      Polymers made from fossil sources and stone.(Synthetic concrete) Buildings that last 5000 to 25000 years. The timeline for this transition and tree farming is sustainable especially as far less wood will be utilized per building.. Synthetic concrete. The science is already known. Energy cost has been the issue in implementation…

  • Dan Miller

    If Rossi has (as he claims) the means to cheaply manufacture devices that produce more electricity than they consume, why would he sell them? Think about it. Suppose I gave you such a device and you could produce $1 worth of electricity per day and sell it back to the power company. You show the thing to your brother-in-law and of course he wants to buy it from you. How much would you ask for it? If you expect the thing to work for ten years then you would be stupid to take less than $3650 for it since you would be losing money. If I could produce electricity for free, I would sell electricity.

    • cashmemorz

      Similar to the factory that produces taxicabs. If the factory can make $ driving people around then of course why sell the taxi. But the point of the factory is that they are in the business of making and selling taxis and are not equipped to make money off taxi use. So AR is not interested in using every single E-CAT for making money producing electricity to sell to the utility. The goal that AR has is to supply the world’s people with something that helps them to save effort in terms of personal energy use and expenditure. AR wants to make money for sure but as a byproduct of helping the average person to make their life better. AR is greedy but not as greedy as the oil barons and the utilities.

      • LarryJ

        I disagree with the notion that AR is greedy. It is true he wants to control his IP and the market for cold fusion but I believe that desire is born out his desire to see his technology widely disseminated more than a personal desire to be a billionaire. The only way he can ensure those goals is to carefully control his technology. Obviously his investors need a return on their money because without them nothing will happen but he has stated that he intends to price his products so low that nobody can compete against him. Who does that hurt? He also intends to direct a large proportion of his earnings to philanthropic causes. I think he is an elder philosopher on a mission given by his god and whose trials in life have left him more concerned with his legacy than his wealth.

        • psi2u2

          “whose trials in life have left him more concerned with his legacy than his wealth.”

          Very well put. I agree that Rossi’s research path and personality as it comes across consistently support this interpretation. It is unfortunate in my view when people condemn Rossi for not open-sourcing all his discoveries. I think Rossi correctly perceives that the swiftest dissemination of LENR is most likely to come through at least some aspects of it being proprietary. That is Rossi’s realism, not his greed.

          • There is a balance that needs to be struck between rewarding early investors/inventors for bringing a product (as important as the ecat) to market and making sure that the offering provides the greatest possible good for all of humankind.

            I don’t know for sure but I suspect the route Rossi/IH are taking is fine for achieving both. I mostly lean towards democratic socialism (Go Bernie!) with a libertarian bent on some issues but I love entrepreneurs and inventors too.

            Tom Darden’s goals and character, from what I can tell, is perfect for this kind of product roll out. ‘Make money saving the world – put that money into something else that also benefits everyone – repeat’. A good business/humanitarian compromise imo.

        • BillH

          That still means he has to hurry up, they don’t give Nobel Pries to dead people.

    • Gerard McEk

      IT is cear that in that case the price of electricity would drop dramatically and you would not be able to sell electricity for the existing price!

      • Dan Miller

        If Rossi was providing me electricity that cost him almost nothing to make, then the price of my electricity would drop dramatically unless he was ripping me off. Nobody would want to pay the old price from the old electric companies. I would end up saving more money than if I bought a home Ecat. There are very good reasons why most everyone buys their electricity from a distributed source rather than making their own at home (except for those who want to for non-economic reasons). It is cheaper, more reliable, and more convenient.

        • Omega Z

          “It is cheaper, more reliable, and more convenient.”
          I agree. It also provides peace of mind. Any problems fall on others to deal with.

          • DrD

            True, which is one reason why he wouldn’t do it.

    • Andrew

      It will take decades to cut the miles on the red tape before domestic ecats would be available to joe blow public. Industry and utilities will be the first to venture. As for “if I can produce electricity for free I would sell it”. Sure this would work for a while but as the technology proliferates selling excess juice would be like trying to sell sunlight. I’m sure people thought the same thing when electric freezers came out, “I’m going to make a fortune selling ice!”

      • I think that estimate is too pessimistic. The public will DEMAND the Quak ASAP. If it actually works and produces independent home electricity and home heating at a very low cost, such as electricity at 3 cents per kilowatt hour or less, then politicians will want to win favor with the public by speeding the regulatory process. In California especially the cost of electricity is sky high and people will resent any attempt to stall consumer availability.

        • Andrew

          Only after money is made hand over fist. Never underestimate the relationship between big money and politicians. They can always buy more votes.

    • Omega Z

      I have a producing oil well and oil is $100 a barrel. Why would I want to drill more wells when by not doing so, the price will only go up?
      Even at $40 a barrel and some losing money while storage facilities are nearly full, they keep drilling new wells. Why?

      It’s one of the quirky effects of the Capitalist free market system. The fear that there is someone in the shadows waiting to under cut your business and take market share.(And usually there is.) Even given a monopoly, you know it’s days are numbered. You sell as much as you can as fast as you can and when you meet price resistance and sales declines, cut the price to reach the next lower market level. Rinse and repeat. This is the path to long term business survival. To grow and become big enough to survive when the market bottoms out. Tho even this is not guaranteed.

      Thus what you propose would be short lived and you would eventually and likely very soon find yourself broke and out of business..

    • DrD

      Well to start with, the utility companies buy my electricity for about 4p/unit but charge me about 18p/unit. Selling energy is not a good deal.
      Then there’s the auto and aviation markets which could use his Cat’s instead of batteries so how would he get into those? I believe that profit and personal gain is not his only motivation.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    „…most amateur investors (around 90%!) lose their money.“

    I do not believe in this figure. Maybe it is true for daytraders, but even in their case it has never been proven, at least as far as I know. This looks to me rather like a tactics to keep people from acting on their own, with the intention to secure the profit of banks and fund managers.

    Which does of course not mean that private persons should not inform themselves very thoroughly before they risk anything.

  • Gerard McEk

    IT is cear that in that case the price of electricity would drop dramatically and you would not be able to sell electricity for the existing price!

  • Brent Buckner

    Right, so “a word of caution on the timeline”, as Adrian Ashfield gave us, seems to me to be sound. It doesn’t seem to me to be standing in the way of Rossi changing the world, rather it seems to me to help people in their planning.

  • That is a proven statistical fact. We have to face facts if we wish to find real solutions and survive in a world where the population bomb has already gone off. The current world population as of 3/26/2016 is over 7,411,238,000. people, far beyond the long term holding capacity of planet Earth. The idea that the USA can and should allow unlimited, never-ending legal immigration as well as massive illegal invasion is beyond the realm of rational thought. LENR and other new technologies will help, but they cannot solve of all our problems or make everyone rich and happy.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Well, the plant was not a public demo.

      And there really no way to realize how the plant will perform until you run it
      in a real industrial environment for about a year. How long does the fuel
      charge last? How much input power does the plant consume over time? How often are parts required to be replaced. All of this information is required before
      ANYONE will sign on the dotted line.

      No one going to purchase an airplane without knowing the fuel costs and ALSO the maintains cost. How long does the engine last before replacement?

      As a result, the plant was not sold, but ONLY the heat from the plant was purchased. And just like when a company delivers a truck load of pipes to a job site, then do you trust the truck driver to count the pipes delivered? The constriction company not going to truest the driver! And the reverse is also true! Does the company delivering the pipes trust the job site to count the pipes delivered?

      As a result, there are checks and balances. Both parties will thus have their OWN TRUST system in place.

      Rossi is monitoring the plant and the output. However the customer ALSO hired an independent firm to check the results. The ERV (Expert Responsible for Validation).

      Neither party is going to take the claims of the other party on face value. So they both will have their own data.

      This is really basic business!
      I am delivering your something, so both parties have checks and balances in place to ensure they ONLY pay for what was purchased. Or on the other side to ensure they get paid for 4 pipes delivered and not the customer say they only received two pipes!

      So the ERV report is exciting since it will give real world numbers as to the kind of cost savings that the 1MW plant can achieve, and such a report is not from Rossi, but from a customer consuming heat delivered.

      Of course the ERV report will NOT give the cost of running the plant. And refined nickel like Ni62 is in the $10,000 per gram range right now. However, looking at the 3rd party report, it looks like the reactor “breeds” Ni62. It possible that Rossi used this plant to build up a supply of Ni62!

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • psi2u2

      “Right now average IQs in the USA are dropping like a rock.”

      “That is a proven statistical fact.”

      Hmm….

      Please cite your sources or don’t make such outlandish claims.

  • CEOAppleseedLegacy

    hi,

    i am a regular reader of this and the ecatnews site. however, i am interested in having someone contact me who has been very close to the details for the last 6 months.

    my organization is in the financing stage of our carbon reduction project, and we would appreciate your help.

    please be encouraged to contact me via [email protected]

    cheers!

  • CEOAppleseedLegacy

    if there is anyone here who has been following the grand details here and at ecatnews for the last 6 months, and who would like to help us out with our carbon reduction project, please contact me via

    ceoappleseed at gmail dot com

    cheers!

    • roseland67

      CEO,

      No one hear KNOWS anything.
      We have been following a story for over 5 years, that suggests an obscure Italian scientist seems to have discovered a non chemical method of producing what is referred to as “excess heat”
      but as of today, no one has seen it operate or can say for sure if it works.

      As usual, we wait

  • Where does wealth come from? Does it come from government? What entity will distribute wealth to everyone, and what entity will create that wealth?

    Listen folks, I want to keep the discussion on LENR; I am just trying to point out that LENR technology is not a cure-all. This website should educate people about LENR, but it should not mislead people into thinking that LENR will solve all of our problems. LENR should be a tool, not a religion or a false hope. We have to fight many battles on many fronts to survive on this planet, and energy production technology is just part of the equation.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Wealth comes from when an individual does and creates something more than the input cost of that action.

      If a company can make MORE money than the cost of hiring you, then they will hire as many people like that as possible until such time that hiring additional people will NOT make them money!

      I mean, why else would someone pay you for work, or something you have to offer?

      So if by a company hiring you, you make them money, they will fight to pay you!

      And it does not have to be a company hiring
      you! If you can grow some tomatoes, and if the value of those tomatoes is
      greater than the input costs, then you are creating wealth.

      The key concept here is that because you have a VERY nice car, this does not suggest that someone else goes without a car. Say during the summer you find an old rusted out 38 Chevy in your grandfather’s barn. It can sit there for years and continue to rot.

      Or you can spend all your spare time restoring that car to mint condition. When you drive around town with that beautiful car, people will admire you and say what a nice car! And someone might even offer you $75,000 for that car.

      The VERY important concept here is because you have that beautiful car, it does not suggest or means that someone else goes without that car BECAUSE YOU HAVE ONE!

      And in place of restoring that car, perhaps you start up a coffee shop, and use that money to purchase that beautiful car. The net result is the same – ie: your efforts created wealth to allow you to own a nice car.

      The concept here is that your labor or efforts created that car, and you having that car does not mean someone else goes without a car. Of course others seeing you have that nice car might want to take it away, or perhaps tax you more because they think it is unfair you have that nice car. And they justify this want to tax or take away your car because they been told that you have a nice car, and someone else now has to go without a nice car.

      Wealth creating thus does not mean that because you ate a burger, or have a nice car, that someone else goes without a burger or car – unless of course those without that car or burger want to take away your car or burger!

      At the end of the day, if you do nothing, then that 38 Chevy would remain a rusted hunk of metal without any value to anyone until such time efforts and labor are used to restore that car. You put your labor into that car, you now have a beautiful car that is the envy of the town. Or if fixing cars is not your gig, then grow tomatoes and buy that car. The result is the same thing – your wealth creating allowed to you own a nice car.

      So while socialists are all about taking that labor and efforts away from people, a capitalist realizes that it is efforts and labor that created the wealth that socialists want to take away from you! (and I thougt socialists did not believe in slavery! – when you consider taxes and deficit spending, they have in effect turned most working people into government slaves).

      Computers caused a boom in the 1980’s because it allowed business to be productive faster than governments were taking away the wealth such business were creating by adopting computers. However, adopting a new computer today will not increase your productivity much more then it did during the wealth creating boom that computers caused in the 1980’s
      Companies spend billions on software every year, they ONLY purchase that software because the cost of the software is LESS then the benefits received by purchasing that software.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • g

        The only difference between socialists and capitalists is that socialists expropriate the commons in favor of the state as opposed to capitalists who expropriate the commons in favor of private individuals.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          No the difference is socialist take that money and wealth by force. You don’t to jail for not purchasing a burger from MacDonald’s, but you do if you don’t pay the government.
          R
          Albert

  • Alan DeAngelis
    • Alan DeAngelis
      • Alan DeAngelis
        • Obvious

          “The air-ship, on the plan of those built by Santos-Dumont, is a
          delusion and a snare. A gas balloon, paddled around by oars, is an old
          idea, and can never be of any practical use. Some day, no doubt, some
          one will invent a flying machine that one will be able to navigate
          without having to have a balloon attachment. But the day is a long way
          off when we shall see human beings soaring around like birds.”
          -Lord Kelvin

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Thank you Obvious.

            When did he say that?

          • Obvious

            I am pretty sure it was on a trip to the Niagara Falls hydroelectric facility in 1902.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Ok, it’s making sense. I think he made the flying machines are impossible quote in 1895. So, he must have been aware of the Hall–Héroult process (1886) for making aluminum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall%E2%80%93H%C3%A9roult_process
            and he was at Niagara Falls hydroelectric facility (in 1902) where aluminum metal is made. And he must have known about Samuel Langley’s 1896 unpiloted ¾ of
            a mile catapult launch model by then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Pierpont_Langley
            And if he had lived another 35 years he would have known about these aluminum flying machines.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhmFFtjB2qY

          • Obvious

            I think his main opposition to powered flight was that the power to weight ratio of existing engines (plus fuel requirements) was totally at odds with being able to get off the ground. The availability of aluminum metal and the know-how to use it certainly changed that paradigm.

          • psi2u2

            Interesting that the materials science was the enabling factor.

          • Obvious

            A few weeks ago I was reading a book that followed 5 “basic” inventions, and their long-term repercussions. It shows that prediction of simple consequences are fairly easy, but once adopted, new technology spawns so many new technologies and social changes that the consequences over the long term are nearly unpredictable and often extremely far removed from the invention that started the change.

            The invention of clear (transparent) glass was one example. Clear glass to lenses for eyeglasses to telescopes, microscopes, prisms etc. The subsequent inventions lead to widespread reading, discovery of new planets, galaxies, navigation improvements, reliable trade routes, new immigration patterns, discovery of germs, safe-to-drink water, light properties (waves vs particles), lasers…

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yes, he was aware of heavier-than-air flying meat machines.

        • BillH

          I used to think Lord Kelvin was born in Scotland, and claimed him as a Scot. I now believe he was born in Ireland. I don’t think you should pay too much wait to quotes taken out of context at a time when less was understood. You may also know him from the Kelvin temperature scale and his work on the transatlantic undersea cable, both of which we still find extremely useful today. Even Einstein has a few dubious quotes to his name.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yes, I think the take away message is that smart people from prestigious institutions aren’t infallible.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah good point. For example, it would be hard to imagine what smart watch made from vacuum tubes would look like.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        No need to use outrigger combustion chamber. This drawing refers to the old development with fission reactors. Using e Cat X apparently would require some increase the volume combustion chamber significant change nozzles for spraying conventional fuel control system.The first engines apparently remain partial use of fossil fuels.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Yeah Fedir, it looks like they were starting to think about more compact versions.
          http://www.oocities.org/area51/rampart/6805/nucengmd.gif

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            Yes, perhaps this design. Only the inner liquid metal contour excess. Perhaps in the first generation of engines will continue the partial combustion of fossil fuels for a period of heating reactors and modes takeoff and climb.

    • Someone should ask Rossi what he estimates the cost per kilowatt hour will be with the Quark. He must have an updated mental calculation as the Quark is a new technology which he seems to suggest has a higher COP. I personally do not want to bother him. Mr. Rossi seems to have a gregarious nature, but I still do not like to bug him with too many questions. I have no objection to someone else asking.

    • Skip

      Thanx for posting this chart. I had seen it before but didn’t know where. Here’s the 2014 version:
      https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/energy/us/Energy_US_2014.png

      • Love that chart. Saw an older version last year. Certainly very useful/thought provoking.

  • Andrew

    It will take decades to cut the miles on the red tape before domestic ecats would be available to joe blow public. Industry and utilities will be the first to venture. As for “if I can produce electricity for free I would sell it”. Sure this would work for a while but as the technology proliferates selling excess juice would be like trying to sell sunlight. I’m sure people thought the same thing when electric freezers came out, “I’m going to make a fortune selling ice!”

    • I think that estimate is too pessimistic. The public will DEMAND the Quak ASAP. If it actually works and produces independent home electricity and home heating at a very low cost, such as electricity at 3 cents per kilowatt hour or less, then politicians will want to win favor with the public by speeding the regulatory process. In California especially the cost of electricity is sky high and people will resent any attempt to stall consumer availability.

      • Andrew

        Only after money is made hand over fist. Never underestimate the relationship between big money and politicians. They can always buy more votes.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Losses are part of the game, even for professionals. But if investors respect some principles, such as diversification, and avoid too risky decisions the probability to end up with a decent result after a long enough time (decades) is relatively high. Certainly, in short-term trading you have usually no chance against the big players.

  • cashmemorz

    From the viewpoint that everything in the human social sphere devolves to the plane of power, yes, war of some kind could be used to keep those on power, in power. It is just the kind of war that is to be determined. Propaganda a la skepto-paths?

  • Stephen Taylor

    You are so right. It may be time for a comprehensive reevaluation of this entire situation. It has been five years since Rossi went public. What have we really learned? Not much. We should start thinking about a contrarian view.
    As far as I can tell the Pd D reaction is weak and inconsistent. The evidence for Ni H is very reminiscent of same. Where are we? Where are we headed? I don’t like what I see.

  • LarryJ

    I think it is more likely that the bourgeois will put their energy and money into employing Rossi’s very inexpensive products to enhance and power new products of their own and then using those products to try and control segments of the economy much like Google controls the search engine segment. This is a paradigm shift so it is very difficult to even imagine what new products might come into being. The opportunities for the bourgeois will be immense and since they tend to be well informed (a la Bill Gates) they will have already shifted out of energy and will be watching for the next opportunity. War is pointless and this shift cannot be stopped.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Yeah good point. For example, it would be hard to imagine what smart watch made from vacuum tubes would look like.

  • Omega Z

    NCkhawk,

    ->”A heat protection suit would be needed”
    You have no Idea what your talking about or any real world experience.

    The 4-250KW reactors only take up about 20% of the container.(The rest is filled with the older 52-20KW system that’s not used) The 1MW output would produce approximately 5 gallons a minute of 100`C to 120`C water/steam(+/- 1 gallon dependent on a few variables). An Insulated 1″ to 1.25″ pipe would transfer this amount of heated water or steam quite easily from the container to an exterior exchanger.(Point of use.) There would be little heat dissipated within the container.

    I have no doubt that the temperature of the shipping container does not exceed 110`F in the heat of a Florida summer. However, there are people in a few industries who work 8/12 hour days the year round in 130`F to 140`F temps and they do not wear heat protective gear. Just a pair of jeans and short sleeve or “T” shirts. Some within 4 foot of 3`x3` foot or larger open door of an industrial furnace exposed to (850`C/1600`F).

    As to Rossi’s where about’s, except for periodic physical checks or when issues arise in the 1MW container, he and his team are in a secondary container with workbench, desk and E-cat control systems that has an AC(appeared to be 10K/12K Btu) installed in the side of this secondary container.

    As to the current status of the 1MW plant at this time. If I were the customer, I would be waiting for the upgraded 1MW system with all the issues fixed. With approximately a 6`x6` footprint including all controls. Likely all computer monitored within the maintenance department office. Maintenance personnel dispensed only when there’s an issue.

  • Omega Z

    I have a producing oil well and oil is $100 a barrel. Why would I want to drill more wells when by not doing so, the price will only go up?
    Even at $40 a barrel and some losing money while storage facilities are nearly full, they keep drilling new wells. Why?

    It’s one of the quirky effects of the Capitalist free market system. The fear that there is someone in the shadows waiting to under cut your business and take market share.(And usually there is.) Even given a monopoly, you know it’s days are numbered. You sell as much as you can as fast as you can and when you meet price resistance and sales declines, cut the price to reach the next lower market level. Rinse and repeat. This is the path to long term business survival. To grow and become big enough to survive when the market bottoms out. Tho even this is not guaranteed.

    Thus what you propose would be short lived and you would eventually and likely very soon find yourself broke and out of business..

  • Omega Z

    “It is cheaper, more reliable, and more convenient.”
    I agree. It also provides peace of mind. Any problems fall on others to deal with.

  • VisionandWisdom

    Anyone thought of any basic reactor layout designs which would incorporate the ecat to generate power for a home? or block of flats etc?
    Would it be heat and steam to produce electricity again, or does the e-cat offer something different? (If it’s real and IF it works)

    • Omega Z

      (If it’s real and IF it works)

      According to Rossi, It would appear it may produce electricity directly.
      However, he adds the caveat that it is yet to be seen whether it’s efficient enough for that path.

      Otherwise, It will only be economical as a localized grid system as turbines aren’t very efficient at small scale..

  • Omega Z

    (If it’s real and IF it works)

    According to Rossi, It would appear it may produce electricity directly.
    However, he adds the caveat that it is yet to be seen whether it’s efficient enough for that path.

    Otherwise, It will only be economical as a localized grid system as turbines aren’t very efficient at small scale..

  • Omega Z

    ->”lands that usa and nato destroyed.”

    Lands that were destroyed long before the USA and Nato existed. Lands of perpetual war for 1000’s of years.

  • Omega Z

    A guaranteed annual income for a person would require a guaranteed annual input of labor from that person.

    In reality, Such guarantees are worthless.

    • cashmemorz

      Worthless because giving everyone free$ leads to inflation. Merchants see more money available for basic needs raises prices for basic needs items. The guaranteed income people will be pay for basics even at mildly inflated prices because the basics have to be obtained. Inflation increases by ripple effect through economy. Slowly everything goes up in price. To cover the inflation more $ is printed and given to banks as the staring point for money infusion into the nations economy. Round and round like a snake biting its own tail.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Yes, I think the take away message is that smart people from prestigious institutions aren’t infallible.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Lisa Rychlicki March 26, 2016 at 5:02 PM
    Dear Dr Rossi:
    Do you have to wear eyeglasses when you look at the E-Cat QuarkX ?
    Thank you if you can answer, Lisa

    Andrea Rossi March 27, 2016 at 8:11 AM
    Lisa Rychlicki:
    Yes. The light is unsustainable for the eyes if you look straight into it.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • Bob Tivnan

      This makes me wonder if electricity is generated using existing photovoltaic technology, which is what BLP is doing with their SunCell (except it’s not LENR acording to Mills). Has Rossi made any statements that rule out photovoltaics? I was under the impression that the Quark generates electricity directly.

      • artefact

        I think he ruled it out but I can’t find the comment at the moment.

        He also said the electricity is comming directly from the waver.

        • DrD

          Correct, he said also that it’s not efficient, same regarding thermo electrics.
          So obviously the quark must be a lot more efficient than those.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        A possible variant of the converter https://en.wikipedia.org/…/Thermionic_convert…

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Lisa Rychlicki March 26, 2016 at 5:02 PM
    Dear Dr Rossi:
    Do you have to wear eyeglasses when you look at the E-Cat QuarkX ?
    Thank you if you can answer, Lisa

    Andrea Rossi March 27, 2016 at 8:11 AM
    Lisa Rychlicki:
    Yes. The light is unsustainable for the eyes if you look straight into it.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • Bob Tivnan

      This makes me wonder if electricity is generated using existing photovoltaic technology, which is what BLP is doing with their SunCell (except it’s not LENR acording to Mills). Has Rossi made any statements that rule out photovoltaics? I was under the impression that the Quark generates electricity directly.

      • artefact

        I think he ruled it out but I can’t find the comment at the moment.

        He also said the electricity is comming directly from the waver.

        • DrD

          Correct, he said also that it’s not efficient, same regarding thermo electrics.
          So obviously the quark must be a lot more efficient than those.

          • iirc Rossi said the electrical generation was less efficient than when creating heat. he didn’t say that it was not efficient.

          • DrD

            that’s right and he implied (despite the lower efficiency when producing electric compared to heat) it’s more efficient than Thermo or photo which is what I thought I said. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        A possible variant of the converter https://en.wikipedia.org/…/Thermionic_convert…

  • Christina

    Frank,

    I don’t understand if Dottore Rossi is talking only about making E-Cat’s to sell to factories for their use or is he also talking about making home E-Cats also?

    Thanks for finding out. Sorry if this was already covered.

    Happy Easter to everyone in the world.

    • Frank Acland

      AR has said they don’t yet have safety certification for home E-Cat products, so the first products will apparently be industrial ones.

  • Christina

    Frank,

    I don’t understand if Dottore Rossi is talking only about making E-Cat’s to sell to factories for their use or is he also talking about making home E-Cats also?

    Thanks for finding out. Sorry if this was already covered.

    Happy Easter to everyone in the world.

    • Frank Acland

      AR has said they don’t yet have safety certification for home E-Cat products, so the first products will apparently be industrial ones.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Let’s not be silly here. Because I tell you that too much sun is bad, you switch that to meaning NEVER go out in the sun?

    The idea that I am suggesting a country does not trade to its benefit is beyond silly. What is this, a grade 1 discussion?

    When at what point in any time did I suggest trade is bad thing? I mean, really, just wow dogs barking in the night? So too much sun is bad now becomes NEVER go out in the sun? What kind of silly logical thinking is that?

    I simply stated that a nation that does not property manage it trade will go down the crap hole of losing their industrial base, and we seen that occur in the past 30 years.
    Prior to all of these silly open trade agreements North America had the strongest economy in the world by managing that trade.

    What economy are you talking about that has such a open trade policy that is doing well today? ANY economy doing well today has huge trade barrios in place, be they the result of regulations or that of culture issues.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • radvar

    Re skepticism about e-Cat X:

    Consider rapid and unexpected technological advances:

    – aviation: first powered flight in 1903; dogfights in 1917
    – nuclear energy: atomic pile, 1942, atomic war, 1945
    – semi-conductor technology: started in the 1930’s; lasers invented in 1960; semiconductor laser, 1962
    – computation: code breaking in 1940’s, IBM 360 in 1964, smart phones in 2000.
    – cold fusion: Pons-Fleischman experiment in 1989; close to commercial breakout in 2016

    Richard Feynman: “There’s Plenty of Room at the Bottom.”

    We don’t know what’s down there, and we can’t predict how fast it can be brought to usefullness.

    A healthy skepticism is always appropriate, at minimum to guard against dashed hopes.

    Doubt because things seem too fantastic needs to be tempered with a review of reality.

    • DrD

      Hot fusion?

      • GreenWin

        1951-Promised ‘unlimited’ clean energy
        1971 – delivered EXACTLY ZERO WATTS energy – begged fo $Bs$$ MORE taxpayer funding
        1991- repeat 1971ZERO WATTS energy – more taxpayer funds begging
        2011- more failures e.g. NIF, $Bs$ wasted on ITER Boondoggle…
        2016 – rinse, repeat NOT ONE WATT USEFUL energy since 1951!!

  • cashmemorz

    After a generation or two of everyone getting used to the idea it might work like Clovis says. Its the catch 22 that inflation puts a wrench into that theory. Maybe it might work if that problem of inflation is somehow mitigated.

  • cashmemorz

    It all eventually devolves or evolves to the subjective sense of power. At first it’s: how much power do I as an individual feel I have over my immediate environment. As my life improves it becomes keeping up with the Jones’s, then showing that I am better than the Jones’s. A billionaire is less satisfied with things as they are then is the person just meeting his basic needs. If applied to everyone by use of physical power via LENR or other means, where does it stop?

  • Surveilz

    The ever cocky Mr. Rossi. Let’s hope he surrounds himself with benevolent financial backers and not the usual crop of savage capitalists.

  • Surveilz

    The ever cocky Mr. Rossi. Let’s hope he surrounds himself with benevolent financial backers and not the usual crop of savage capitalists.

  • DrD

    that’s right and he implied (despite the lower efficiency when producing electric compared to heat) it’s more efficient than Thermo or photo which is what I thought I said. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.