Rossi: Leonardo 'Warship' Ready With Robotics to Rapidly Produce Low Price E-Cats, 'Burn Out' Competition

Andrea Rossi has said recently that his biggest problem is the size of his potential market, and it got me thinking. The need for energy is universal, and who would not want a source of energy that is much cheaper than what is currently available, and clean and green at the same time. So I asked him about that on the JONP this morning:

“Frank Acland March 25, 2016 at 7:18 AM
Dear Andrea,
You said recently that your problem is the multitude of your potential customers. I think this could be a major challenge, as when people realize what your E-Cats can do, the demand will be huge. You will essentially be starting from nothing, to where you need to be producing millions of units a year immediately to meet expectations. Can you realistically do it? Or should we be prepared for very long waiting lists for delivery of E-cat products?
Best wishes,
Frank Acland

“Andrea Rossi March 25, 2016 at 9:21 AM
Frank Acland:
Leonardo Corporation is prepared and ready.
The deliveries of all the robotized lines will be fast, Rossi added this phrase later [I already signed the MOU] the factory is already ready and I designed the E-Cat QuarkX in a way that will ease the manufacturing, because I have designed it together with the robot experts I am working with and the electronic engineers I am making with the prototypes.
Leonardo Corporation is ready, do not worry. We will be very fast with the distribution, because we want to burn out ALL our possible competitors, whose only strategy I can see is hope to be ready to copy our products, pretending they will have invented them. They will be beaten in two fronts: patent violation and price: Leonardo Corporation will start immediately with very low prices, due to the massive production they will not be ready to do. I have pretty good intelligence about all what is happening around, what really is behind the chatters and there is nobody ready with any structure necessary to compete with us, let alone a product. Leonardo Corporation will have warships, they will have paper ships, made of the same substance of my paper ships I used to make and test in the fountain of the zoo of Milan ( Milano, Italy ) when I was 4 years old.

Rossi added this sentence later:

This having been said, I must add that there is also some competitor that is working very seriously and upon technology really different from ours: but they don’t talk, as I did until 2011.

F8, F9.
Warm Regards, A.R.”

Rossi is saying here that all the necessary preparations have been made. He has mentioned before that the robotics partner he has been working with is ABB Robotics who are one of the most advanced Robotics countries in the world with much experience in making automated manufacturing lines.

He seems confident that the low-cost/rapid distribution strategy will make it impossible for him to be matched by competitors. I wonder if he sees the other companies that are being supported by Industrial Heat/Lux Energy as his main competitors.

  • Frank, can you please ask Rossi if his factory already produced some reactors, only based on the work of robotics, which worked afterwards?

    Short: If they did test the factory, whether it can manufacture working ecats.

    Only when he answer this question with “yes” Rossi can conclude that they are “ready”.

    • Frank Acland

      I’m pretty sure the answer will be no. According to AR, so far they have only made three quarks which are under test in the Leonardo lab.

      • Then I don’t understand how he can talk about being ready.
        Setting up, configuring and fine tuning the robotics will take months until it works proper enough to say “ready”.

        • Zeddicus23

          Since Rossi has supposedly been working for months if not years on the robotics for similar designs, then I imagine that it should not be too difficult to adapt this work to take into account the modifications needed for the QuarkX. But perhaps I’m being overly optimistic or gullible, or assuming more foresight on his part than might be expected.

        • Zeddicus23

          Of course, I expect that configuring and fine-tuning the robotics will still take months.

    • artefact

      The robots are not delivered yet. With factory I think he means the building itself what else is necessary.

  • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

    I am rather skeptical of the robotics. Rossi has previously talked about roboticised factories that never came about. I’ll believe it when i see pictures.

  • artefact

    Frank, he updated his answer a bit..

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks, I added it to the post above:

      “This having been said, I must add that there is also some competitor that is working very seriously and upon technology really different from ours: but they don’t talk, as I did until 2011.”

      • artefact

        And more on the top: “.. I already signed the MOU ..” and the part about the electronic engineers 🙂

        • Frank Acland

          Thanks very much!

          • wpj

            But why is it Leonardo and not IH that is doing the production? Surely IH are the ones with the deep pockets and the team to put everything together.

          • NCkhawk

            Guys – I hate to say this but this is sounding more and more like a breakout scheme to take a large number of deposits in a short amount of time. If that is what actually happens then those complicit, by hook or by crook, will be investigated along with the scamster-in-chief and will be forced to spend lawyerly sums clearing their names. Everyone promoting Rossi should demand proof that a quark even exists then, if yes, proof that it works. If I’m right, somebody Is going to jail. If I’m wrong then fantastic.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            That assumes IH or Rossi takes money for orders.

            Rossi has not taken money for orders and has not promised any kind of timeframe. So really nothing here until people actually engage in a contract that has a legal offer and
            consideration.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • NCkhawk

            How do you know that Rossi has not taken deposits? I wonder if Roger Green is taking deposits or even if there is anyone foolish enough to give him one? Do you think that Rossi will proceed with “production” without deposits?

          • Albert D. Kallal

            I actually don’t know. Certainly Rossi has stated that he received many orders and requests, but I not aware of deposits being taken for the ecat-x

            Once deposits are taken, then yes, most certainly legal binding contracts exist.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Frank Acland

            AR has said he has not taken any deposits for any pre-orders.

          • Paul Smith

            Yes, and Dr. Rossi doesn’t accept money from non professional investors:

            “Andrea Rossi
            March 18, 2016 at 1:11 PM
            Italo R.:
            It is still too dangerous for common People invest in us; we must wait for our product to be sold massively in the market to be sure that we can accept money from non professional investors; when we will be able to sell massively our E-Cats, Leonardo Corporation will go public. We are beginning to prepare for this, but, again, until our E-Cats will not be in the market I want not to play American foot-ball with your bones.
            F8, F9.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.”

          • psi2u2

            NCkhawk missed the memo.

          • US_Citizen71

            I’m on the reservation list for the consumer models there has been no contact since the first email acknowledging me being added to the list. I was not asked for any money and was told that no money would be asked for until product was ready to ship. That’s how I personally know.

          • NT

            Yep, same here with myself, anxiously awaiting that contract notice to purchase my home units…

          • psi2u2

            That was my experience also.

          • HS61AF91

            me three

          • radvar

            How do we know that the dark side of the moon is not made of green cheese? How do you know that giving Rossi a deposit constitutes foolishness?

            Of course, not being able to answer these questions definitely means there is something very suspicious going on, so please continue contributing your valuable insights.

            Oh, that’s right, I forgot my favorite new phrase: “Personal attacks are a way of diverting attention from one’s own weak knowledge.”

          • NCkhawk – I hate to say this but your unrelentingly negative and rather desperate comments are making you sound more and more like a troll from ECN.

          • radvar

            Wow. We haven’t had a troll to smite in so long, I almost forget how.

            But…it’s coming back….

          • Mats002

            The secret 1 MW plant customer – I presume the customer is real – must have taken money for orders.

            Against Albert D. Kallal below I claim that IH or Rossi have engaged in contract of legal consideration.

          • Frank Acland

            I think Rossi said that the customer was buying the heat, had not bought the plant

          • Guest

            Hi Frank, have you ever asked AR what his relationship with JM Products is? I know that entity was brought up as the potential customer in a past thread, but never saw confirmation one way or the other.

          • Frank Acland

            No I haven’t. I know he won’t give thee name of the customer so I won’t even try asking. And that’s normally his policy when questions come up about private business relationships. But it’s easy to post a question on the JONP if you’d like to venture.

          • Mats002

            Heat is what the customer bought, engaged in contract of legal consideration.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Sure, but how that change anything in the context of this discussion?

            So they purchased some heat under contract? How does this change anything stated here?

            We were talking about fulfilling orders placed by people who given money or deposits – not some test plant that’s been running for a year.

            How on earth did such a spectacular grasping at straws here occur here and a jumping of tracks into the 1MW test plant?

            The information we have shows the 1MW plant was delivered and been operation for 1+ years – details of that test and the financial deal changes nothing in regards to those placing orders for a product (and having given consideration).

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • clovis ray

            Frank, every one is asking you to ask Dr r .I would ask that the test plant be memorialized for posterity. you think that could be done.

          • Frank Acland

            I’m not sure what the plans are for it. It could end up in a museum somewhere I suppose. There is a plaque on it to honor Dr. Sven Kullander who passed away before the test was completed, and who AR had a lot of admiration for.

          • Frank Acland

            I ask my own questions and don’t like to ask questions for other people when it’s so easy for anyone to post a question on the JONP.

          • Reminds me of an old Monty Python sketch where an architect-builder was actually a hypnotist-magician. If you stopped believing your apartment was real, the whole building would fall down.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Well, my answer was in regards to general orders to the public and ALSO in the context of the ecat-X. Like anything stated, context is EVERYTHING here!!

            The details, and if money every transferred and that early 1MW plant was delivered is not known to me, so I cannot really comment as such. That early 1MW plant and what occurred to my knowledge is not public knowledge as to what occurred.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Michael W Wolf

            The patent is good enough proof for me. You shouldn’t defame people without proof. Your comments are slanderous. If he is doing wrong, a jury will decide.

          • clovis ray

            Hi, mike
            He just trolling, don’t waste your time on him, i just gave him a neg one, for hate speech.

          • psi2u2

            Your “if I’m wrong then fantastic” sounds pretty formulaic to me. I do think you should be careful about what you say. There is no significant basis for these reckless accusations.

          • LilyLover

            With deep pockets come deep obligations to manipulate Rossi to submit to the will of the corporate overlords working for the “Establishment”.
            Perhaps against his own will, Darden had to backstab Rossi. Now, Rossi, a nice guy, will play nice but will also reserve the right to succeed on his own.
            Hence IH is left with E-CArroT; while Rossi has the direct electricity forbidden apple.

          • Brent Buckner

            IH gets to do things its own way in its territories; we are told it has rights to manufacture and market E-Cats (including E-Cat X) in its territories.

            As to why IH is not manufacturing for Leonardo respective of other territories – could be any number or reasons. Perhaps Rossi wants more control than IH would accept, or perhaps Rossi wants to avoid anyone other than himself/Leonardo holding any global monopoly (or stranglehold) over the technology.

  • “factory is already ready”

    Here Rossi is essentially claiming that the year long test was positive. So, Rossi will be proven to be either the greatest inventor of the 21st century or the greatest hypnotist of the 21st century. I hope it is the former.

    • Mike Henderson

      Either way, I am mesmerized.

    • Stephen Taylor

      Well, I hope it’s not deja vu all over again. Seems like only yesterday (2011 actually) Eng. Rossi was promising millions of ecats ready for imminent production in a factory already existing at that time in a secret Florida location. I remain hopeful but Eng. Rossi may be the most optimistic of us all.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        The E-cat (or any version that we have seen) seems a relatively simple device. It is not hard to believe that such device can be manufactured quickly by a robotic line.

        The old E-cat consumed electric power and gave off heat with ratio 6:1. There would have been a domestic market for it, but the lack of certification prohibited it. There is also an industrial market, although it is not very large relatively speaking. Nevertheless, IH was founded to pursue it, but first convincing investors took time, then the 1-year test took time.

        It seems that the game changed in Christmas 2015 when E-cat X started to produce electricity. It opens up the possibility for Leonardo Corporation to make units and run them in large farms and sell the electricity. The game is changed because electricity is much more convenient to sell than heat because transferring it is much cheaper. So they can start mass producing the units without waiting for the certification of the home units.

        • Stephen Taylor

          Pekka, your analysis is very good (as it always is). It has been my great pleasure to benefit from your insight and your knowledge of the science. Thank you for continuing to provide a voice of reason on this most important subject. I do understand the logic of the delay in development time and the importance of electric production. The great hope is for a convincing demonstration soon. There are many reasons this may not happen. Maybe we have to wait for products in the market to be accepted.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Thanks, Stephen.

      • Ryan

        I’m just hoping that list of people that signed up for a home ecat, that Rossi put out years ago, still exists and he gives them a preferential chance to buy in when/if they become available. I signed up for it and would love to be able to distance myself from the local power company, ie not need them at all.

        • NT

          With ya on that because time is not my friend at my age…

          • There are more than a few of us here for whom a 15 year delay could be a problem.

  • “This having been said, I must add that there is also some competitor that is working very seriously and upon technology really different from ours: but they don’t talk, as I did until 2011.”

    Does anyone remember the name of the competitor that Rossi once said was doing “good work” and that Rossi’s replication team was able to duplicate with positive results? He said that work was the only one his team could verify from the many competitor patent applications they experimented with. I believe it was a professor somewhere.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Brian Ahern.

      • g

        Hasnt b. Ahern been crucifying rossi and parkhomov?

        • It is someone with a patent application. I remember Brian, but my memory is fuzzy and I am not sure he is the one. Rossi did say they replicated his work and it worked.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I think the one with the patent was Piantelli, see here:

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/09/30/piantelli-european-patent-revoked/

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Brian Ahern was the one mentioned by Rossi:

            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=853&cpage=3#comment-976936

            “Therefore I want to say sound and clear: we have replicated all the
            existing patents and know hows regarding the LENR existing in the world
            and no one of them has manifested a real heat excess with the following
            exceptions: Ikegami-Petterson system and Brian Ahern System. These are
            the only two systems that actually gave us evidence of a heat excess.
            All the other systems that we have reproduced ( and we have reproduced,
            with huge investments, all of the systems that have been proposed in
            all the world in the last 20 years, with particular attention on the
            experiments made in the last 4 years, that have been analyzed with extreme endeavour) have not given any heat excess evidence. One of them
            had put in the market a “kit” that has turned out to be a joke…”

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I did not speak about the competitor who was mentioned by Rossi.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Ah, ok. But Ahern probably also has a patent, since Rossi said he replicated it. Maybe MFMP should also…

          • It would be rather surprising if they hadn’t, given that Ahern supposedly joined their team (advisor?) two years ago.

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/04/09/brian-ahern-joins-the-mfmp-team/

            A couple of his patents may give an idea of his approach:

            http://www.google.com/patents/US20110233061?hl=fr&dq=ahern,+Brian&ei=2v5_UKz9IcjAiwKwsoGQBw

            http://www.google.com/patents/US5770036

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Yes. Indeed, perhaps someone should try and reproduce Ahern’s patent(s).
            I had forgotten that Ahern was part of MFMP’s advisory team.
            I now sent a question to Bob Greenyer about this on quantumheat.org.

          • No. That is not the guy. I think it was an American and the process was much different than Rossi’s device, so there is no patent conflict. Frank should remember. The post is still in the archives unless it has been deleted. He said the guy “does not need my help” because he understands what is going on and has done such good work himself. It may be one of the platinum- deuterium experimenters, but I can’t remember. I should have saved that post.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Google is your friend, limit search by site:journal-of-nuclear-physics.com

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Please see my answer to Pekka below.

          • Brent Buckner

            Fine, just seemed to me that you’d wandered from the points about “scamster-in-chief” – Michael Wolf above invoked the patent respective of a functioning LENR device (“proof”), not a sustainable business advantage.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          It is Ahern and Rossi has said it many times. One is this:
          http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=879&cpage=16#comment-1097437

          And yes, Ahern has been very dismissive and impolite towards Rossi. But that’s another matter.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        It seems to me that the real competitor to Russia can be Godes and Brillouin firm. Are tested reactor cop = 4. In this case the reactor is not used, the reaction between protons and lithium.

        • Fedir Mykhaylov

          Incorrect translation of Google, instead of the Russian-Rossi

  • clovis ray

    Hi, Guys,
    Again,’wow’, wow, wow, more great news, thanks Frank, and Dr.R, you just made my day,

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    The idea of the complexity of e-Cat X can be understood by considering the hot cat version tested in Lugano. Having no idea about robotic production lines, I expect, that the production line for e-CAT X will be something similar to a rotary assembly line for the production of syringes, nothing more difficult.

  • pg

    But they don’t talk, as I did until 2011. Translation: I am 5 years ahead of them.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Actually, you missing the BIG point here! Rossi is talking about a MAJOR competitor to LENR and it is a technology that is NOT based on LENR. I have no idea what this is, but Rossi is clearly aware of other energy technologies. So while it great and Rossi confident he is 5 years ahead of “someone”, the HUGE story here is another energy technology exists that Rossi feels could be a direct competitor to LENR. Someone should ask Rossi what that other technology is?

      Regards,

      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Gryphon

        Could he mean BLP and their system extracting energy from water?

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Doubt it – those guys have NOT remained silent, and they are IMHO still a circus show. So it someone who is not speaking public right now.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • LilyLover

          Yes, it is BLP.
          You’ll see.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        I think Rossi said of the direct competitor in LENR sources of energy but by using other technological principles.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Yes, that’s how I understood it also.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Very good – recent comments above confirm this – it is a LENR company, but one that not spoken in public.
          R
          Albert

      • Michael W Wolf

        Why are you here? We are not here to discuss the legitimacy. You should go to a Skeptics blog. Or go to some hot fusion blogs and complain about how they have stolen hundreds of billions from the public and have given us nothing. It’s like you are complaining about a lit match while your house is burning down.

        • Frank Acland

          Yes that’s true, the comments are normally not very relevant to the posted articles. Most of the discussion takes place in whatever the most recent article is, and the most recent one has over 3000 comments. But still AR is normally quite happy to respond to whomever posts a question, so long as it is not trolling or about super-sensitive information.

          Honestly I don’t think he gives me any different information on the JONP than he would to any other questioner. You can make up any name you like. Here’s the current thread — scroll down and leave your question as a comment if you want.

          http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892#comments

        • DrD

          Perhaps he’s on that list that AR said his lawyers were compiling. I look forward to that.

  • I guess he will present something of this at his press conference in Stockholm, that is planned in connection to New Energy World Symposium (if I will be able to confirm the symposium). The HQ of ABB is in Switzerland, but ASEA, which is the A in Asea Brown Bovery, had its main office in Västerås in Sweden, and that’s still an important ABB node. BTW, Harry Frank, former head of R&D at ABB, is featured as a speaker at the symposium. Getting interesting…

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks, Mats — so Rossi’s press conference is planned for Stockholm also? That will be convenient for conference attendees. Try not to schedule a conference session to conflict with Rossi’s conference!

      • Yes, since Rossi is planned to attend the symposium, it should be in Stockholm, as far as I know. And I already had the request to plan to avoid conflict in time. But first, let’s see if I can confirm the symposium…

        • Frank Acland

          Thanks Mats, yes — lets hope we get results from the 1MW plant test soon.

        • Isn’t it a indirect confirmation for positive results that Rossi said he will attend your sympositum, which itself will only take place when Rossi’s plant worked successful?

          😉

        • Sam

          In my calendar, your symposium is the most important event of the year, even more important than ICCF in Japan.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Rossi certainly seems at a high confidence level right now.

      Of course, we watching this in “real” time, so there likely still a few years before production
      starts.

      I like to call this the wedding effect.

      You attending a wedding, eat the food and have fun, but you are totally un-aware of the MONTHS of planning that went into preparing that wedding. Same goes for when people
      line up around the block to purchase the next iPhone.

      I do think when brochures and sales start of LENR products, people will be stunned and shocked! And they will line up like people do for the iPhone.

      However for us here, this will be much like watching paint dry, or watching someone planning a
      wedding in real time – it simply going to take time. It not practical or reasonable
      to see or realize mass produced LENR products in the next year timeframe.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • clovis ray

        HI Albert, you have to remember, Dr. R has been working on this along time, he didn’t just start yesterday. he can also multitask, this has been planed for a while,
        and guys he will probably have an slid in reactor, so the rest of the xcat can be contracted out, then brought back to the robo factory, for final construction, and test, before delivery.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          No question that manufacturing and ramp up time can be “relative” short.

          I don’t have the link, but I recall an engineer in the USA that runs a manufacturing company from his one-room apartment.

          The engineer simply sends the CAD design of part “A” to manufacture “A”. That manufacture then ships part “A” off to manufacture “B” and so on down the road.

          When done, the final manufacture ships ff the product to the customer. With the internet, and fantastic CAD systems, this is not only possible, but quite easy today! This results in a one person operation without a factory to produce and deliver manufactured goods to people!

          The above part is NOT the difficult part.

          The simple matter is that the new ecat-X will need a good year of testing to vet out a reliable design that can be mass produced. You cannot send out large numbers of a product UNTIL such time that you have “durable” product with significant hours of testing. So a “iterative” design process will have to occur. You build, test, look for failure points, and then do this cycle over and over until such time you reach a product with required durability and safety.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Rossi has stated they are re-fueling the reactor and they will continue to run it.

          And why would you feel much heat?

          Most of the energy going into the water and being taken away. To be fair, there is a small air conditioning unit on the container wall for Rossi’s unit but heat in such a room is a non-problem.

          A 1 million watt boiler is 3.5 million BTU per hour. A Cleaver Brooks 3 million BTU hot water heater looks like this:

          http://img.mfrbee.com/photo/v2/252411549/COMMERCIAL_WATERTUBE_BOILERS_Cleaver-Brooks_Model_FLX_Flexible_Watertube.jpg

          Of course the above has gas burners. So the $100 question would be?

          Well, given the size of the above 1 million watt heater and boiler system do we find Rossi’s 1MW plant close in size?

          Well yes, looking at the pictures of the 1MW plant, they are rather close and similar in size!

          Ecat 1MW plant Pictures here:
          http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/02/19/new-official-web-site-andrea-rossi-com-pictures-of-the-new-plant/

          In fact the overall size of Rossi’s plant looks to be somewhat larger then that 1 MW boiler. Rossi’s plant being somewhat larger makes sense since control modules and e-cat reactors replace a simple natural gas flames.

          On the other hand, since no natural gas flames are required, then the heat transfer is going to be more efficient and not a lot of waste heat is going to escape into room where the heating system resides. And we don’t have to vent the burned gas outside since there is none (this also causes heating of the room). So the coolant (water) will thus easy remove most of the heat.

          So once again, taking “one small” piece of evidence we have, such as how big would such a hot water heating system be in “relative” size. It is most telling we find BOTH VERY similar and in the same ball park.

          Of course the commercial gas boiler unit likely has
          a larger water reserve whereas Rossi only removing the heat from the system – not storing it.

          I stood beside many a commercial heating systems, and felt little heat since the heat is being used for the building – not the room the heater resides in.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • US_Citizen71

            He doesn’t want to see anything for himself. It is quite apparent he is a MY/Krivit clone. If you give him a formula or equation he will conveniently forget that 1+1=2 if it helps his agenda. He is nothing but a time suck, we all need to not feed the trolls they just comeback for more.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    Clearly before Rossi can start producing millions of units he has to provide OEMs with a datasheet so they can start integrating the device into various products. If you were to give a generic consumer the device today most consumers would have no idea what to do with it, no matter how miraculous it is. At some point prior to millions of units being produced OEMs will have to be let in on the secret so they can start building an infrastructure around it.

    • Frank Acland

      They will probably not start out integrating the quarkX it into existing products. I think the first products will be stand-alone energy production plants providing heat and/or electricity and light. But I am sure there will be soon many people wanting to integrate it into all kinds of products and they will need data as you say.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I would plug one cord into the wall to power it, and the other power cord into the wall to power my home, the surplus would spin the meter backward and the electric company would be required by law of my state to send me a check for fair market value of the power at the end of each month.

      What part do you need help with dear?

      • giovanniontheweb

        most probably you will not have any power network anymore and tax will apply directly to your home size

      • NT

        He he, good reply Ophelia…

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          Sigh…

          • psi2u2

            Yes, cue the violins. Poor NCkhawk, still harping on a dead paradigm.

      • DrD

        Well said. Unfortunately for me, they stopped my meter and most others in UK from going backwards. We already export excess solar PV to the grid (for about 1/4 of what we buy it for). Roll on the day when I only export.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    Clearly there are a number of things that have to be considered when scaling up to produce a large number of units. Some critical questions have to be answered about the nature of the manufactured item and all of the related processes. I think there are two key questions:
    1). Does the manufacture of the component require a new process or is it consistent with similarly manufactured items?
    2). Are there readily available sources of all of the materials (and equipment to process the materials) that can deliver the goods in a short time?

    For (1) above, if the casing is a simple metal part made by stamping, forming, and welding sheet metal all of the equipment and machinery exists. Simply contract out the fabrication initially and build your own facility when scale and volume make it cost-effective.

    For (2), iI think the “secret sauce” of the fuel process might best be kept in-house. If so, do raw material suppliers have the ability to deliver the materials and does the recipe involve existing equipment, or does new equipment have to be developed?

    Examples of production extremes: Electronic assemblies can be provided in a matter of weeks at volume given the existence of processing equipment and a number of competitive suppliers who can do the work. I can send an electronic file describing the assembly and get finished parts back in a very short time. On the other hand, manufacturing facilities have to be designed (usually custom) and take a long time to complete. Example: my brother once told me that Johns Manville took 9 months to expand a fiberglass line at the time of a building boom with energy efficient housing given that they already had similar plants in operation. That was quite quick.

    I taught Automation and Robotics at a technical college. Final unit assembly by robots usually follows hand assembly until volume builds. I recall one of my students working at a Generac plant where the Y2K “scare” had people buying emergency power generators. Generac was able to scale up production in short order to meet demand.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Albert Ellul March 25, 2016 at 1:12 PM
    Dear Ing. Rossi,
    You are feeling very upbeat about the e-Cat Quark X and its production roll out. For me and others, who such as I, have been following you and your ups and downs for the past five years are seeing the end of the tunnel and the success that you deserve. The home unit we know is a difficult one considering safety issues. However an industrial unit will not have such issues although it would need some sort of certifications according to the country of importation or use.
    1. Would be the electrical output power (kW) of your smallest industrial unit planned for production be less than 20kW?
    2. Would it be AC or DC?
    Thank you and wish you all the success that you deserve.

    Andrea Rossi
    March 25, 2016 at 3:28 PM
    Albert Ellul:
    her production is not just in roll out mode: it’s in rock and roll out mode!
    Thank you for your kind words and considerations: I agree.
    1- not a problem
    2- either
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • Stephen Taylor

      Fantastic!

  • Stephen Taylor

    Rossi’s strategy says commercial success will bring scientific acceptance. He has always shunned individual investment saying he does not wish to play American football with the bones of others. To say there is some scheming to take deposits is silly.
    Large sums may be at risk from wiling venture capitalists or philanthropists but Mom and Pop are quite safe with Dr. Rossi. NCkhawks comments “by hook or by crook”, ” scamster in chief” seem a bit forced and not well informed at best.

  • radvar
  • radvar

    Where to start? Well, ok..

    > inflammatory phrasing e.g. “scamster”
    > hyperbole e.g. “humanly possible”
    > implying inconsistencies e.g. “that chilly”
    > indirect accusation e.g. “sounding more like”
    > suggestive metaphors e.g. “circus act”
    > making demands e.g. “should demand proof”

    I mean, come on. This is like shooting fish a barrel…

    • psi2u2

      Nice. 6 dead ones.

  • Michael W Wolf

    Search for the truth? On what you think is a scam site? Who are you conning? You don’t go search out a desert to look for water. If you don’t believe, why are you searching for the truth here? I mean to you, it can’t be here. How about putting your money where your mouth is. How much will you give me if rossi is over unity? I mean you have nothing to lose right? So how much?

  • Stephen Taylor

    Have you ever been in a boiler room? I have been bundeled up and freezing next to many large industrial heat sources. Boiler operators generally live in comfort nowadays.

    • NCkhawk

      Wow – I haven’t seen “JM” as the customer name before. Where did that come from? If you have studied the history of CF then Johnson Mathey (a stretch but worth floating) was an important metals provider who had great interest in the sector in the early days.
      Has anyone on this board ever been in a 1MW boiler room? With a COP of 6 that is the equivalent approx. 200lbs of coal / hour. That would take an industrial grade cooling system to keep everything in order including maintaining pressure and return flow. It is a legitimate question.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Silly again, hard to take you seriously though I am trying. Two local powerplants here are 900+ and 150+ MW. Nobody is being steamed to death as far as I know. Many 1 MW facilities have personnel in close proximity. It is just not an issue.

      • US_Citizen71

        No but I have been in the engineering compartment of a nuclear submarine with a 150MW reactor and it was about as cozy as Rossi’s shipping container. Funny we weren’t hard boiled.

  • radvar

    “It does not add up”.

    By gosh, he’s right! And we’ve been taken in all this time! Thank goodness NCkHawk is here to save us!

    Oh, but, uh, I see, it’s really an n-dimensional calculus plus abstract geometric topology problem.

    Ah, well, if all you can do is addition, then I guess those are the types of conclusions you end up with.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Your skepticism is reasonable. Unless one has done much research the story seems too good to be true. Recently, the pace of claims has been fantastical. If we start with Piantelli and Focardi then Rossi follows. Also, knowing about Thermacore is helpful. This is just Nickel and Hydrogen, there is much more in earlier work as you probably know. Lenr-Canr.org is the library. Having said all that, the fact remains, you are on the side of most physicists, so congratulations to you.

    • NCkhawk

      The Thermocore study is one of my favorite studies along with many of the BARC reports. The NRL Spawar and China Lake reports have all kinds of gold nuggets within. I’ve been studying the IP and the papers for years now.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Good then, I take it you see an interesting anomaly and await further developments?

      • Brokeeper

        The morning sunrays are appearing over the horizon.

        • How do you know if something is real if you have not seen it and touched it yourself?
          Example, is this story real?
          https://www.yahoo.com/news/10-000-old-sunken-ancient-210700089.html

          • Brokeeper

            Sometimed you don’t have to touch or see things to believe it exists.
            It is believed the continental shelves were dry in the past because of ubiquitous presence of global flood legends in the folklore of people groups from around the world supporting the biblcal story. This only supports the legends.

          • I guess I am just saying that I believe in intelligently cautious optimism, but I never believe in faith, which is always blind to one degree or another. As regards to the sunken Japanese city news story, some of the photos are probably/obviously photo-shopped.

          • psi2u2

            This is a classic “maybe natural, maybe not” example. Robert Schoch, a well known open-minded geologist, says it is natural, but perhaps not. I’ve never seen a fully convincing argument either way – but it’s in the right place anyway if the above analysis is correct.

          • psi2u2

            The other reason is that, geologically, the continental shelves were in fact dry land. That’s what continental shelves are – the parts of the continents that are exposed during an ice age (circa 100,000 years), but covered with water at the height of the interglacial periods (circa 10-15,000 years). Ergo, the flood legends are most likely quite real, from all over the world, and substantial civilizational remains probably lie on the continental shelves of the world, accessible today only by archaeologists who also dive (as they have been proven to be the case in the Black sea area, which was inundated after an ice damn broke at the end of last ice age circa 11,000 BC, releasing what is still today the Hellespont, flooding the Black sea from the Mediterranean side and burying the remains of huge lakeside settlements under a hundred feet of water) Because of what rather seems like contemporary hubris, however, the legends are dismissed as superstitions by followers of Lyellian gradualism.

          • akupaku

            It is highly probable that this news is real. And it is nothing new, these underwater structures have been known for many years. Similar underwater structures of ancient civilizations have been found all over the world, for example in the Caribbean and India. And also on dry land in South America, estimated to be 12000 years old. All these suggest that there were advanced civilizations on Earth before the last ice age ended and global sea levels rose over 200 meters because the ice melted. Ancient legends of Atlantis and Lemuria might be true after all.

            Of course, modern archeology ignores all this evidence and insists that the oldest human civilizations we know of were in in ancient Sumeria in the Middle East around 7000 years ago. All evidence that does not conform to the scientific consensus is ignored or explained away as errors, speculation or scam. The same has happened to cold fusion or LENR. Nothing must disturb the prevalent consensus and power structure. The venerable MIT falsified their reproduction of F & P experiment to keep their funding in hot fusion research (it has been shown later that MIT actually achieved excess heat).

            And the history of science is rich with similar cases. To name a few, continental drift was once a subject of ridicule, the first flight of the Wright brothers was ridiculed years after by physics professors as “impossible”. A celebrated physicist Lord Rutherford declared that “their was nothing new to be discovered in physics” a few years before quantum mechanics and relativity theory appeared.

            And in today’s science we have similar “impossible” discoveries as LENR and a few others that I don’t care to name here as “off topic” (unless somebody asks, lol!).

        • LarryJ

          Don’t forget the entirely new products and services that we can’t even imagine and which cold fusion will enable. The economy will grow as never before.

      • Stephen Taylor

        BARC?

        • NCkhawk

          Bhabha Atomic Research Center – India. They did some excellent transmutation, electrolytics and plasma research on CF until their funding was cut off in 1996.

  • sam

    Ready on the left.
    Ready on the right.
    We are ready for the EVR report.

  • pangoo
  • Otto1923

    His competitor – I wonder if he’s talking about brilliant light power? Dr Mills made a pretty impressive demo in February and seems close to production.

    • Frank Acland

      He said on the JONP today that the competitor was in the LENR field: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=79#comment-1163393

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Interesting, that clears up that in fact Rossi was talking about LENR, not something else.

        However, still significant is Rossi stating that they NOT been public (so speculation of existing known players likely is not the case).

        My best bets would be Airbus, since the French government had a LENR program in the early 90s that was producing positive results.

        My other guesses are large industrial entities like Toyota, Simmons, Hitachi etc.

        Key here is they NOT been public as of yet. And also competition at this point in time is ONLY going to come from a industrial player with significant resources.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • LukeDC

          My guess is Doosan via Ansaldo.

        • hum, I don’t think so.
          I have element to think it will came from French garage.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Probably Rossi was not referring to BLP but Mills and Rossi technology may be joined at the hip.

      • Roland

        It may be salutary to remember that the conflicting theories held by Rossi and Mills lead each to characterize what the other has accomplished according to their own theory to the exclusion of what each party themselves has to say about what they’re doing; Mills doesn’t accept LENR and Rossi doesn’t accept hydrinos.

        From this perspective Rossi might view Mills as a LENR competitor in spite of Mills’ protest that his technology has nothing to do with LENR, and, of course, vice versa.

        Then again this might be idle speculation and there is indeed another LENR team at an advanced design stage on a similar trajectory to IH/Leonardo.

        If Rossi is not yet taking Mills to be a very serious competitor perhaps he ought to…

        • Andreas Moraitis

          I agree about theory. However, I would be very surprised if we would see a mature commercial product by BLP in the near term.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    I have to agree that skepticism is reasonable!

    And what the ecat-X can do? This is beyond crazy!

    However, there are several issues and steps required to eliminate the “fog” of war in this regards.

    First up:
    Is LENR real?

    Well, what if an independent news company like 60 minutes went to the American Physics Association and ask them to pick a skeptical Physicist, and the news channel hired that person to look into LENR to see if it is real?

    The story from 60 minutes in 2009 can be found here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvaX3vRtRA

    The above is MUST watch. And MOST significant is the witness and testimony of that Physicist who came back from a lab in Israel, and said, wow – this actually works.

    With the above, and 100’s of papers around the world having found excess heat, I think it is reasonable to accept LENR as much as we accept we landed on the moon.

    It is certainly possible that we did not land on the moon, and possible that LENR is not real, but they are not REASONABLE positions.

    I think it is reasonable to accept that Julius Caesar also existed, but once again only until evidence is gathered can one accept that Julius Caesar existed.

    Ok, so it quite easy to make the case for LENR.

    And Rossi is NOT required to get this far into the discussion.

    In the case of Rossi? Well, that’s more difficult, but evidence is building day by day based on the actions of OTHERS involved with Rossi or those that purchased the rights to his technology.

    So Industrial Heat purchased rights to Rossi. Rossi stated a once year test would occur. And after ONE year, Industrial Heat made a public announcement in regards to their LENR technology – I doubt such a statement would be made if this is a scam.

    The only real issue left here is how well Rossi’s technology performs, not that has working LENR devices.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Brent Buckner

      Yes. I’ll chip in with Parkhomov claiming to replicate Rossi, and with MFMP claiming an LENR event with Bob Greenyer then explaining how retrospectively he understood it to be consonant with Rossi’s comments about such things as lead thermalizing radiation. Further, Bob Greenyer has gone on to say that features of the E-cat X would clearly follow from his understanding of Piantelli’s theory in the context of MFMP’s results.

      • NCkhawk

        With all due respect, Bob Greenyer is a business or marketing guy who should not be attempting to make science videos. He does not help MFMP credibility in my opinion.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Not the worst idea, see my comment from last year:

          http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/02/19/new-official-web-site-andrea-rossi-com-pictures-of-the-new-plant/

          Regarding Areva, which is also mentioned, it might be interesting that Siemens appears to be keen to acquire Gamesa’s stake in Areva. (Actually they are saying that they want to takeover Gamesa and would even buy the Areva stake to facilitate the deal.)

        • Brent Buckner

          Fine. I don’t have anyone other than Bob Greenyer telling me whether or not something like the E-Cat X would clearly follow per Piantelli’s theory so personally I’ll continue to entertain the notion that it may not be as big a leap as it may seem at first blush. YMMV, and clearly does!

        • cashmemorz

          Similar to the factory that produces taxicabs. If the factory can make $ driving people around then of course why sell the taxi. But the point of the factory is that they are in the business of making and selling taxis and are not equipped to make money off taxi use. So AR is not interested in using every single E-CAT for making money producing electricity to sell to the utility. The goal that AR has is to supply the world’s people with something that helps them to save effort in terms of personal energy use and expenditure. AR wants to make money for sure but as a byproduct of helping the average person to make their life better. AR is greedy but not as greedy as the oil barons and the utilities.

          • LarryJ

            I disagree with the notion that AR is greedy. It is true he wants to control his IP and the market for cold fusion but I believe that desire is born out his desire to see his technology widely disseminated more than a personal desire to be a billionaire. The only way he can ensure those goals is to carefully control his technology. Obviously his investors need a return on their money because without them nothing will happen but he has stated that he intends to price his products so low that nobody can compete against him. Who does that hurt? He also intends to direct a large proportion of his earnings to philanthropic causes. I think he is an elder philosopher on a mission given by his god and whose trials in life have left him more concerned with his legacy than his wealth.

          • psi2u2

            “whose trials in life have left him more concerned with his legacy than his wealth.”

            Very well put. I agree that Rossi’s research path and personality as it comes across consistently support this interpretation. It is unfortunate in my view when people condemn Rossi for not open-sourcing all his discoveries. I think Rossi correctly perceives that the swiftest dissemination of LENR is most likely to come through at least some aspects of it being proprietary. That is Rossi’s realism, not his greed.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Just be well informed. There really is a lot more to this than Eng. Rossi. He may turn out to be historic, or not. Lenr-Canr.org is serious and important science repository.

    • Frank Acland

      He said he had an air conditioner in the container where the workspace was (there were two containers apparently), not where the power plant was. If you look at the pictures on andrea-rossi.com you’ll see an air conditioner.

  • Andrew

    Someone without proof either positive and negative should keep their smearing to a minimum. To me the “breakout scheme” is very unlikely. For that to be the case Rossi would have had to already fooled some very rich venture capitalists and you can bet that before they drop a dime they will have done some serious due diligence or they’re in on the scam. For darden to be in on the scam seems very unlikely as he already makes money by the boatload and wouldnt need to scam to get ahead. If Rossi is the lone scammer he probably would have ran with the first investment because being 70 years old and running a long term scam doesn’t seem very feasible let alone the fact that he would only sell a few products before being cought. Hardly worth spending years to hatch.

  • Steve Savage

    It really feels to me like we are close to the breakout most of us have been watching and hoping for.
    I have a few questions for you.

    If we are truly approaching the breakout?, it could attract a lot of investment $ very quickly, what is the best way to take advantage financially?

    1. Invest as much as possible in the Woodford mutual fund, I see this as very low risk as only approx. 2% of the fund is invested, but it could be far less on the reward side as well?

    2. Set up a legal mutual fund of our own with a professional fund manager etc… with the express purpose of becoming a private investor in Cherokee, Industrial Heat, Lux or Leonardo Corporation. Or any combination that is available and makes sense. (high risk, potential for substantial rewards)?
    3. Is this the right time to seek these investment opportunities?
    4. What is the best summary (not too long) to get to somebody (my wife) up to speed on all this quickly? She will need to approve.

    • Brent Buckner

      It seems to me that your comment about patent enforcement has little to say about whether or not Rossi has produced a working LENR device.

    • Brent Buckner

      As to your question in 4, you might start here:
      http://www.e-catworld.com/why-i-believe-in-the-e-cat/

      It may be difficult to invest per your point 2, and as you note your point 1 avenue is considerably watered down. You might also or instead consider potential relative winners and losers from the hypothetical introduction of LENR (just as some folks made money by shorting Chrysler as OPEC tightened oil supply in the 1970s there would be knock-on winners and losers).
      [This is not a solicitation, nor advice to engage in any transaction. Futures and options trading involves risk.]

      • DrD

        Maybe put down a pre order for 1000 Ecats and hope for a profit if orders out strip demand, better still if you can install them. I doubt IH will go along with that.

        • Michael W Wolf

          Well, I can’t argue with that. But that was not your tone in earlier posts. But yes, your point is valid.

        • Brent Buckner

          Sure; let’s change that to: “Rossi consistently told us that IH was in charge of the year test”.

    • Mike Ivanov

      Investment… hard to say to be honest. I like AR but in past, we saw cases when innovator had been eaten by big sharks. I would be careful about investion in AR business now or just after the launch.

      For stock market players it makes more sense to be ready to short all energy providers – oil, gas, coal, and distribution companies, plus related service companies – pipes, cables, etc. Especially solar and wing energy – those will die really quickly.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      If you and your wife are “qualified investors” I think the best solution would be to contact Industrial Heat and/or Hydro Fusion directly.

    • Fedir Mykhaylov

      Will be a win-win investments in companies mining lithium.

      • DrD

        AR said their use if Li is negligible. Maybe it will even fall in price if the quark replaces enough conventional (Li) batteries,

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Yes. He recently said that starttime is seconds. Then the needed buffer battery is small, or could be a supercapacitor.

        • Fedir Mykhaylov

          When using lithium as a fuel component of e-Cat reactor demand for lithium will increase. Unlike lithium-ion batteries, Lithium burning in the e-cat beyond retrieve .
          — реклама ———————————————————– Только до 1.04! Купон QV6A-HI3Z-448P-DDWY
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          • DrD

            No your wrong.
            The amount that disappears is negligible, according to E=mc^2. Work it out. Rossi himself says so and he is correct. Even world wide after everything is changed and it’s not only Li that is consumed to produce energy.
            Further more, much Li in batteries is not recycled.

          • cashmemorz

            A mature LENR industry will even transmute hydrogen into heavy hydrogen into tritium then into lithium. Many other uses for LENR, not just power and transmutation of elements.

          • cashmemorz

            There are rules in place for unsolicited business ads and slanderous language on E-CAT World commentary. Be careful you don’t get banned!

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            What is advertising? It’s about burnout Li7 reaction with a proton

            — реклама ———————————————————– Поторопись зарегистрировать самый короткий почтовый адрес @i.ua http://mail.i.ua/reg – и получи 1Gb для хранения писем

  • Albert D. Kallal

    I much agree in regards to ecat, but not ecat-x

    There simply no information or data on how the ecat-X performs in a commercial environment. Perhaps test information from ecat applies to ecat-X, but that’s pure guessing and speculation at this point in time. Rossi stated he plans to be running a ecat-X next month.

    I don’t see how large scale production of the ecat-X can occur without some considerable testing and design iterations of the ecat-X.
    This fact in no way stops Rossi from starting the process to setup large scale manufacturing of the basic ecat-X components, but we talking over a year from now, and we still will need testing of these new design over many months.

    Regards
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • clovis ray

      Hi, Albert, don’t you remember, just about every time a progress report was given on the L/T cat. he also gave a report on the xCAT. It’s in the archives, look it up.

  • Andrew

    No one here tells people what to believe or not to believe, we leave that to main stream science. Most of us just keep an open mind until there is more information available.

    • psi2u2

      Thanks for helping to set the record straight. I was going to say the same thing, only not so nicely.

  • US_Citizen71

    It seems that you have never heard of nor understand the concept of insulation. It can be put around hot things to keep heat in and increase the efficiency of heat exchange systems like steam generators by preventing heat loss to the environment. It is cutting-edge stuff only been used on steam pipes since the late nineteenth century.

  • artefact

    I think Rossi mentioned that the “home e-cat” will be 20KW. It should be capable of generating at least 10KW electricity and 10KW heat. No idea about the light.

    • DrD

      I think he said the ratio is variable ” we can choose” and the efficiency reduces as the % electric increases but won’t say by how much (F8).
      My heating system is 30kW then add the instant hot water, another 15 kW, electric, another 15 kW so I guess I need 2 or 3 units, which is good to me. However, I suspect he will eventually make a range of units starting from, possibly as low as 100W.

  • Roland

    My guess is that it’s actually the core of the moon that’s made of green cheese and I’ll cling to that view until someone has tunnelled completely through the moon on several axis, without encountering any cheese, till I relinquish one inch of my ironclad position…

    Even then ‘they’ could cleverly fake it just like the dummy ‘moon landings’ so how will I ever know for absolutely sure that I’m wrong about this; besides I’ve never been proven conclusively wrong in any of my baseless conjectures and that’s just the simple beauty of postulating a negative.

  • enduser

    Factories, ABB robotics. scientists and engineers etc. Why has none of these spilled the beans.

    • DrD

      Obvious, it’s called NDA.

    • artefact

      They probably know the beans will be spilled by Rossi in due time and they will make profit. Why spill them themself and risk to loose reputation in that group. And if they would say something, who is gonna believe them?

  • DrD

    It sounds like it will take a lot. He deliberately destroyed one and commented how diificult it was.
    As for output, he described a modular approach, so in theory they could make modules of any size made up of multiples of 100W quarks, possibly even customised to order (eventually).
    Who knows, maybe we can just buy quarks and put them together ourselves.
    He also said we can chose the ratio of electric to heat but am not sure if it’s preset or we can vary it, hope it’s the latter.
    I’m sure we will know a lot more by mid June

  • Michael W Wolf

    Fair enough. But Rossi has had a year long test of the prototype. Too many people involved to be a scam. Whether it works “good enough” is the question I think. Also, as patents go, he will add multiple patents as does anyone who knows how the system works.

  • Michael W Wolf

    Accusations without proof is hate speech brother. Especially implying felonies.

  • theBuckWheat

    Let the competition begin!

  • Stephen Taylor

    It goes where it is meant to go. It is process steam. The reactors and steam pipes are insulated. The process steam is used to dry or sterilise or cook or otherwise process product. Sometimes the heated product is cooled using large ammonia chillers, sometimes cooling towers and condensers are involved but often residual heat is just vented to atmosphere.
    I have never worked in a fully air conditioned industrial environment. Normally it is hot and a bit steamy in wet areas. Sometimes it can be very cold. In a glass plant the heat is incredible but you get used to it. A 1 MW boiler is really pretty small by comparison. The lost heat in and around the immediate area is minimised and losses are simply vented to atmosphere. For comfort, my understanding is they work in a separate air conditioned control room as was mentioned earlier. It is not the least unusual to vent these small area A/C units to the plant environment which is generally well ventilated.
    Thanks for the reminder about BARC. Memory is not a strong suit here.

    • Omega Z

      At Guest,

      Regardless under what topic you post to on JONP.
      All questions & answers from JONP can be found at-
      http://www.rossilivecat.com/

      It appears to be updated several times a day.

      • Alan DeAngelis
        • Alan DeAngelis
          • Alan DeAngelis
          • Obvious

            “The air-ship, on the plan of those built by Santos-Dumont, is a
            delusion and a snare. A gas balloon, paddled around by oars, is an old
            idea, and can never be of any practical use. Some day, no doubt, some
            one will invent a flying machine that one will be able to navigate
            without having to have a balloon attachment. But the day is a long way
            off when we shall see human beings soaring around like birds.”
            -Lord Kelvin

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Thank you Obvious.

            When did he say that?

          • Obvious

            I am pretty sure it was on a trip to the Niagara Falls hydroelectric facility in 1902.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Ok, it’s making sense. I think he made the flying machines are impossible quote in 1895. So, he must have been aware of the Hall–Héroult process (1886) for making aluminum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall%E2%80%93H%C3%A9roult_process
            and he was at Niagara Falls hydroelectric facility (in 1902) where aluminum metal is made. And he must have known about Samuel Langley’s 1896 unpiloted ¾ of
            a mile catapult launch model by then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Pierpont_Langley
            And if he had lived another 35 years he would have known about these aluminum flying machines.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhmFFtjB2qY

          • Obvious

            I think his main opposition to powered flight was that the power to weight ratio of existing engines (plus fuel requirements) was totally at odds with being able to get off the ground. The availability of aluminum metal and the know-how to use it certainly changed that paradigm.

          • psi2u2

            Interesting that the materials science was the enabling factor.

          • Obvious

            A few weeks ago I was reading a book that followed 5 “basic” inventions, and their long-term repercussions. It shows that prediction of simple consequences are fairly easy, but once adopted, new technology spawns so many new technologies and social changes that the consequences over the long term are nearly unpredictable and often extremely far removed from the invention that started the change.

            The invention of clear (transparent) glass was one example. Clear glass to lenses for eyeglasses to telescopes, microscopes, prisms etc. The subsequent inventions lead to widespread reading, discovery of new planets, galaxies, navigation improvements, reliable trade routes, new immigration patterns, discovery of germs, safe-to-drink water, light properties (waves vs particles), lasers…

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yes, he was aware of heavier-than-air flying meat machines.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            No need to use outrigger combustion chamber. This drawing refers to the old development with fission reactors. Using e Cat X apparently would require some increase the volume combustion chamber significant change nozzles for spraying conventional fuel control system.The first engines apparently remain partial use of fossil fuels.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah Fedir, it looks like they were starting to think about more compact versions.
            http://www.oocities.org/area51/rampart/6805/nucengmd.gif

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            Yes, perhaps this design. Only the inner liquid metal contour excess. Perhaps in the first generation of engines will continue the partial combustion of fossil fuels for a period of heating reactors and modes takeoff and climb.

        • Someone should ask Rossi what he estimates the cost per kilowatt hour will be with the Quark. He must have an updated mental calculation as the Quark is a new technology which he seems to suggest has a higher COP. I personally do not want to bother him. Mr. Rossi seems to have a gregarious nature, but I still do not like to bug him with too many questions. I have no objection to someone else asking.

        • Skip

          Thanx for posting this chart. I had seen it before but didn’t know where. Here’s the 2014 version:
          https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/energy/us/Energy_US_2014.png

  • Pekka Janhunen

    Rossi: Australia is a Territory controlled directly by Leonardo Corporation.
    This is surprising, I thought it was still Roger Green.

    • artefact

      Just wanted to write the same.

      Strange.

    • Paul Smith

      Rossi writes “…Australia is a Territory controlled directly by Leonardo Corporation. We bought back the commercial licence from the former Licensee.
      The contact for Australia is:
      [email protected]…”

      Green isn’t no more the licencees

  • AdrianAshfield

    A word of caution on the time line. Rossi has said he was ready to mass produce E-Cats before. Having built complete factories in the past I know there are many delays. You have to get planning permission, then build the building, supply it with power, order and get delivery of the robots, set them up and debug the line, etc.
    As it doesn’t sound like he has actually received any of the above, I would be surprised if it could be put together in under nine months – by the end of 2016.
    As he is smart, I believe he has the plan in his head and the best way to proceed would be build a unit production line that could be duplicated anywhere, as often as required.

    • clovis ray

      Hi,Adrian,
      Do you have a link, to where he said he had completed a robo factory, because i don’t remember that, link please,
      Planning permit, pre existing building,power will already there,delivery of robos on their way, staff, already to go, warehouse, and shipping, peace of cake,
      Why would you possibly think, he has not taken care of all these things, do you think he started yesterday, sounds to me you don’t know what your talking about, you need to catch up, on his background, do you really think you could tell Dr.R ,What is best, i don’t think so,

  • US_Citizen71

    “Rossi shows his insulation strategy in the pictures.” – Really I guess I missed the cross sectional cutout pictures that show the thickness and type of insulation used around the pipes, reactors and heat exchangers. Can you link to those photos? If you are referring to Rossi standing next to the reactors with a lab coat that just speaks to how well the system is insulated from the environment of the room containing it.

    “If his COP is 6 then he is generating the approx. equivalent of burning 2+ tons of coal per day to make his 24MWh production claimed in the test.” – The reactors do not burn anything, so inference to a system that has insulation problems due to air and fuel intake access and an exhaust chimney matters not. The only holes in the insulation are for the wiring harness and the heat loss there can be combated by engineering such as heat sinks on the wiring harness that dump their heat into the incoming water flow.

    “The system efficiency and heat exchange also depends on pressures which dramatically shifts system needs up or down.” – What does the internal pressures have to do with the R-value of the insulation surrounding the system?

    “I’m simply saying that I don’t see that he has the engineering built in to the system in the pictures to handle that kind of heat generation.” – What is it that you are expecting to be able to see besides the insulation on the pipes coming and going?

    It seems that you are grasping at any straw to build an argument to support your preconceived notion that the room should be hot.

  • clovis ray

    why, how would that help, them to market, they are not concerned with the public, and could care less about what they think right now, all that, will come later,
    you have to keep in mind that this is a private company, with no strings attached,
    so leverage is non-existent,against this group

  • Alan DeAngelis

    This is a real paradigm shift. Eventually, QuarkXs will to be used to run the robots. Manufacturing costs will drop like crazy as the whole supply chain for the production of QuarkXs becomes powered by QuarkXs.

    What will the rich folks do when everyone becomes rich?

    • How is everyone going to be rich when there will be so much unemployment? Automation will take over everything, including farm labor, and the USA with its open border anarchy is being flooded with people who will never be able to understand high technology.

      • Jag Kaurah

        No agriculture becomes much more efficient and agricultural land used drops dramatically.

        This is what we are working on

        • fjutt

          Please elaborate so i understand.

          • As agriculture becomes more efficient and industrialised, the area of land required to produce any given amount of food decreases. So the total land area in use by agriculture either remains roughly the same to keep up with increasing demand, or falls if demand remains constant.

            In theory, as LENR will allow widespread increased use of hydroponics, which requires relatively little land, the area under cultivation will decrease. Things are rarely that simple of course, and demand for ‘natural grown’ food could become a major factor determining land use in richer countries (meaning already having a strong technological base in infrastructure and education).

          • psi2u2

            LENR may dramatically facilitate urban agriculture and locallized hydroponics.

          • Jag Kaurah

            Great comments Agaricus and psi2u2.

            Actually it can get a lot better than that. Take just one example – about 80% of the agricultural land globally is grazing land. In terms of producing proteins, microalgae can produce about 300 times (30,000%) more protein per acre/hectare per year and it is a much healthier protein with all the essential amino acids and none of the negatives of meat. The meat can be reconstituted from this protein so people do not have to change their habits.

            There is a lot more that can happen to agriculture if energy is low cost – take another example; automated multi-story factory type farms with several growing layers in each story.

            Anyone really interested to discuss in depth can contact me at jagkaurah (@) gmail.com

          • psi2u2

            Very interesting set off facts. I had no idea of the vast productive advantage of algae (is “micro” algae a special kind?). We already have young African American entrepreneurs in Baltimore pioneering urban agriculture projects so it would cool to see LENR providing a big boost in feasibility through cheap heat and electricity!

          • Jag Kaurah

            Algae are divided into 2 groups – macro, normally known as seaweed and micro, which are far more interesting. Microalgae are tiny but multiply very fast and just as important they have a vast genetic base such that we can get all basic molecules from them including carbs, protein, oils…….

            The advantage of low cost electricity through LENR will accelerate the current trend towards microalgae My hope is to return a lot of land to nature while improving human welfare.

            The problem for young entrepreneurs going into microalgae maybe capex. Smallest microalgae projects would start at about $ 2 million not counting the land and buildings.

            Baltimore has low total annual solar radiation compared to say southern California, so growth using sunlight would be lower but low cost electricity means we could use artificial lighting.

            would be delighted to help if that kind of money is within their range

          • Omega Z

            Not all protein is created equal.

            That said, Meat will be grown in labs to meet increasing demand within 20 years. However, it will be mixed with natural raised meat production.

            It is similar to greenhouse grown produce. It’s nutritional value is not the same.(Better in some respects and not so much in others.) However, by including both in your food intake, there is not any (known) issue.

            On another note, If the current birth trends of the last 50 years continue through to 2100, The World population will be 1 Billion less then today. Food production will not be an issue.

          • Jag Kaurah

            Please see discussion below

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Democratic Socialism. Bernie.

      • g

        Easy. Dissociate income from work

        • That reminds me of the last scene in the 1937 Marx Brother’s film, *A Day at the Races*. The favored horse wins the race and everyone dances around with money in their hands laughing. 🙂

          • psi2u2

            Chris, perhaps you’re not aware that several governments in the world are already contemplating this move. If the human race is going to survive robotization, G’s proposal will be necessary.

          • http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12035946/Finland-is-considering-giving-every-citizen-800-a-month.html

            When the USA has a budget surplus and tons of money piled up with nothing to do, then sure why not give it away to US citizens. Right now the USA is bankrupt, deep in red ink, and surviving day to day on borrowed money from China and Japan, and money the Federal Reserve creates out of thin air. That situation cannot possibly last.

          • Skip

            Our Feerless Leader’s dad played with this idea, and found it appropriate and economical. There was speculation that it would come as a surprise on the recent Canadian budget, but unfortunately no.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Well, how come we did not have much unemployed before? What has changed?

        I mean, with the introduction of mechanized farming that used to employ 80% or more of the people, we now have what 3% farming in the USA? This resulted in a HUGE economic boom as people moved into factories and cities.

        In the 1980’s we another HUGE economic boom based on the computer revolution. All of a sudden a business with 40 employees could run payroll with 1 person in place of say 5 people. The cost of doing business had thus been lowered.

        And we now use LESS paper per person then we did in the past. And we also use much less oil per persons also! (in other words, technology makes us more efficient and allows people to do more with a given set of resources – that results in increased standard of living and wealth creating).

        Every time in history we introduce robots or automation (such as tractors on a farm) or computers into an office, the results is a SIGNIFICANT rising of standard of livings.

        We did not lose all the middle classes and manufacturing jobs in the USA due to automation or robots. As above shows, automation in farming or business increased job creating.

        The simple matter is, introducing computers, Robots, automation will NOT help your economy if you have a broken trade policy.

        We lost all our middle class jobs to open and free trade policies. Open trade policies have decimated middle class as jobs are exported to everywhere else.

        This open trade experiment of the last 30 has shown to a disaster.

        I mean, if 80% of your society was working in some area of the economy, and you moved it down to 3%, then one would assume everyone would have no work. In fact the reverse occurs – those 80% of people can now go on to build cars, radios, or walk your dogs.

        Or you setup a company that uses Robots to walk your dog. And since the cost is less to run that business, then MORE people can NOW afford a dog walking service (today, only upper middle class can afford these services). Of course, while most of the dog walking will be done by robots, you still need some people to take the dog out of the cage etc. Someone to take the dog from the customer etc. The result is MORE overall employment. And now the averge person can afford to have a dog walker! And this applies to near anything you can think of that you purchase or consume.

        Of course, if you’re purchasing the manufactured goods (or service) from outside of your economy, then you sending money and resources out of your economy. Thus any goods you purchase come from outside, then you not even creating tax dollars for the government to give back to you or spend on health and education, or even to help the poor.

        There is NEVER been an economy that flourished in an open trade environment – never!!

        So automation and lower cost energy will most certainly provide HUGE economic boost to jobs and wealth, but ONLY IF your economy keeps that wealth. If you purchase everything from another economy, then then the jobs and wealth creating as a result of the technology will occur at the point of origin of that goods or services created – not at the point of consumption.

        We are consuming, but not producing – that is the basic reason why we lost most of the middle class.

        The fact of being “more” efficient with automation always creates jobs and wealth, but only at the point of origin where such technology being used to create those goods.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • The missing part of your equation is that the Third World is an unlimited baby factory and a significant portion of the Third World wants to come here so that we can solve their economic problems for them. Without border security, none of the good things you hope for will turn out as promised. As long as the USA makes the anarchy of open borders a political goal, then everything gained from LENR and other technologies will be lost to the costs of feeding, housing, and providing infrastructure for invaders, which will also damage our environment even more. Remember, immigrants fill out forms and wait in line and obey laws. Invaders just break in and take what they want. Canada is in far better shape as the USA acts as a security buffer on its southern border. The USA has no buffer. The USA is in decay and collapse, and even the amount of “National Socialism” we currently have is not sustainable under the stressful and destructive conditions of border anarchy. The USA is no longer really a nation. It is a house that is on fire. People are fooling themselves if they think LENR will solve all of our problems.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            I have to much agree.
            The simple solution is to have those poor countries adopt our system of capitalism. And in any modern industrial society the birth rate plummets.

            So LENR does hold out great hope for poorer nations to industrialize and dramatic raise their standards of living. And like free trade, free immigration is also a disaster. Europe is fast realizing the folly of un-checked immigration.

            With the rise of socialism which has failed everywhere it’s been adopted, then LENR of its own will not solve our economic problems no more than computers will.
            However LENR will still help in HUGE ways. LENR in in theory allow a rather socialist economy to function quite well.

            Regards
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canadam

          • Bob Tivnan

            “the Third World wants to come here so that we can solve their economic problems for them”. The fact that you make this statement on E-Cat WORLD attests to your xenophobia. News flash- the Internet is not American and “here” is nonsensical in this forum. A pro-Trump website might be more receptive to your ethnocentric babble. This technology is not about making any one nation great (again).

          • Please, do not assume you know who I am going to vote for. At this point in time, even I do not know who I will vote for, only who I will never vote for. I do not like any of the current presidential candidates. The idea that any person who wants secure borders is xenophobic is absurd. A nation is not a nation without borders, and borders are supposed to mean something. Very few Americans would blame Mexico or China for kicking out Americans who enter their country illegally, but somehow many people think that the USA is the only nation on Earth that is not entitled to secure borders and laws that must be obeyed. Anarchy does not work in Somalia and it does not work in the USA.
            LENR cannot overcome the destruction of anarchy. I just think we should be honest and understand that we face many problems that LENR cannot cure.

          • psi2u2

            “The idea that any person who wants secure borders is xenophobic is absurd.”

            Right, but a number of your other comments do suggest that you are wearing xenophobic lenses and tend to view the world from a rather ethnocentric perspective and expect others to accept your fiats without evidence.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            We talking about the economic impact of LENR. The simple matter is yes, people living in a big pile of garbage and poverty want to go where things are better. That no some xenophobia, but a simple observation of humans.

            For what reason would any human not want to move to where things are better? Attempting to turn a basic observation of human nature into something else is silly on your part (you are attempting to deflect this basic issue).

            The fact that people don’t want to live in a garbage dump all their lives is NOT a political statement in any way.

            LENR can bring food, water and increased standards of living to millions of people. In fact, LENR can solve the immigration problem by creating wealth and a decent standard of living for people no matter where they are living now.

            In fact, this is why most here are so passionate
            about LENR – it can do more to help the poor of the world than any other technology.

            Unless we solve the problems in those counties then yes, they all continue to want to leave their garbage dumps and come to a place where such problems already been solved for them.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Bob Tivnan

            I take issue with your premise that developed nations will become the primary beneficiaries of LENR, leading to a wave of illegal immigration. Certainly, IH has taken a different view of who will be the early adopters of LENR. Sorry, but I have more confidence in their appraisal of the economic outlook for new energy technology than your opinions, which seem to presume that wealthy nations are somehow entitled to first dibs. On the contrary, if the USA is late to the party (which seems likely to me) and fails to devise an economic strategy to transition from fossil fuels to the new energy paradigm, we may be talking about immigration in the other direction 20 years from now.

          • cashmemorz

            From what is mentioned in the “Manhattan LENR Project” that was run by the some big name individuals in the USA government, the First big LENR project (GENIE reactor using raw uranium ore without residual radioactivity) run by those individuals will benefit both the USA and the island of GUAM. Guam is a USA territory but many of its inhabitants are of low income.

          • cashmemorz
          • Omega Z

            Bob,

            It’s not about first dibs. Developed countries are just better positioned to adapt financially. Keep in mind, the energy will be cheap, but the hardware cost will be the same for all. Likely as not, you will have a lot of NGO’s using Western Government donations to help distribute/build out this technology. In short, a continuation of wealth redistribution as is already taking place.

            Keep in mind, less developed countries have less need at this time. They don’t have all the electrical uses (appliances and such) that the developewd world has. This will take years. On the otherhand, even tho it will take years, it will be years less then would happen otherwise.

            Note, Desalination and water treatment plants and all else involved will not be cheaper. Only cheaper to operate once built. Not to make light of this, Many of these facilities are not built due to the lack of power to begin with. And others due to the fact that even when power is available, it is still to costly.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Yes I am suggesting that less industrialized nations likely can benefit from this technology MORE then the developed west. This does not mean the west won’t benefit more.

            Underdeveloped nations lack affordable energy and this holds back industrialization. Our western economies were built up with VERY low cost energy over many years. Today our energy costs are likely TOO high to start that industrial process from the ground up. (wood, then coal, then oil then electricity etc. takes LONG time).

            LENR solves the above problem – low energy costs again! That will enable those poor nations to now industrialize and skip multiple steps in energy adoption that is “typically” required to industrialize a nation.

            However, your second point suggesting that this new energy will cause more immigration is 100% backwards as to my MAIN point.

            I not sure where the train fell off the tracks, but if people have clean water, energy, and a decent standard of living, and hope for a better future, then there is ZERO need to immigrate!

            So you have my main point 100% backwards!

            I am suggesting that LENR can solve the immigration from places that are a giant
            hole of garbage and poverty into a place in which those people can proposer.

            If people are doing well, then the need to immigrate is much eliminated, and I think LENR is one of the most significant technologies that will allow poorer nations to prosper.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • clovis ray

        we are not being flooded, the republicans has ruined this country, we are taking it back, from the losers and putting it back on our feet, again, then we will have room for the farm workers, and everything will be good again.

    • I don’t think the basic economic mathematics and the availability of natural resources will allow everyone to become rich unless we have a drastic reduction in world population and birth rates and a dramatic increase in average intelligence created by genetic engineering. Right now average IQs in the USA are dropping like a rock. “Democratic Socialism” only works when everyone in the nation, or almost everyone, has intelligence and some degree of honesty and sense of responsibility. The USA is a war zone of races, religions, conflicting ideology, and we are doing everything we can to make matters worse, not better.

      • LarryJ

        An IQ of 100 indicates an intelligence that is the norm for a population. If everyone gets dumber then they will still all have an IQ of 100. IQ tests are also known to be imperfect and can allow cultural influences to skew their results which tends to make minorities look dumber than the majority when quite possibly the opposite is true. As Mark Twain once said, There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

        It is also well known that birth rates drop as standards of living rise. Even China has had to relax its one child policy because they know that their population is aging and the writing is on the wall. If Cold Fusion allows the standard of living to rise world wide then birth rates for the world could fall to a rate that would cause world population to fall not rise. The day could soon come when all countries will offer incentives to people to leave their home countries and emigrate. I assume this is why Angela Merkel was so welcoming of Syrians. Germany needs these people, even though the existing population fears them.

        Your view sounds very xenophobic.

        • It is the people who create a nation. If you fill Germany up with Syrians, Germany will become Syria, not Germany. The president of Mexico has already been quoted several times referring to the USA as “the other Mexico.” I think you are well meaning, but you do not fully visualize the long term consequences of your ideas. I have traveled extensively in many Third World nations and I do not want the USA to become what they are. Nations come and go through world history, and cultures are often destroyed by gradual foreign invasion. If you take it all as a joke and cling to our politically correct plan for national suicide, our grandchildren will suffer greatly, and our economy and people are already suffering tremendously because of lawless border anarchy. Our current philosophy of submission without a fight will end America, not save it.

          • LarryJ

            As a Canadian living next door to the cultural behemoth that is the USA I am pretty well in tune with concerns over cultural identity and I sympathize with your position but the world is more and more becoming a global village. It is inevitable I think that we will soon share a common culture. The original American culture is the American native culture which has long since faded from sight as will the current American culture one day. Time marches on and xenophobia will not stop it but may add to the pain. Better I think to embrace the future and the diverse cultures you will soon be living with.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          “The general was appalled when they told him that half his soldiers were below average IQ” 🙂

      • Omega Z

        http://www.google.com/patents/US20140326711#classifications

        Patent # US20140326711A1
        Applicant : Industrial Heat
        Inventors: Andrea Rossi
        Assignee: Leonardo Corporation

        Clicking Classification goes to bottom of page find this number-> G21B 3/00
        Click on G21B 3/00 takes you to this page-

        http://web2.wipo.int/classifications/ipc/ipcpub/#refresh=page&notion=scheme&version=20130101&symbol=G21B0003000000

        You’ll find
        Low-temperature nuclear fusion reactors, e.g. alleged cold fusion reactors [2006.01]
        ———————————————————————-
        The above is referenced to patent WO2015127263 A3 that also refers to G21B 3/00
        http://www.google.com/patents/WO2015127263A3?cl=en

        Applicant: Industrial Heat, Llc
        Inventors: Andrea Rossi, Thomas Barker DAMERON

    • Alan DeAngelis
    • ‘What will the rich folks do…’ The same thing they do every time the oiks get uppity – arrange a financial crisis and steal all their money under the pretext of fixing the problem they created.

    • Omega Z

      There will always be some limits to separate the classes.
      Note in the UK they created the Queens English to distinguish the commons from the Elite.
      But most important, they will be in charge.
      Wealth and Power has always been about Power.

      • DrD

        Well to start with, the utility companies buy my electricity for about 4p/unit but charge me about 18p/unit. Selling energy is not a good deal.
        Then there’s the auto and aviation markets which could use his Cat’s instead of batteries so how would he get into those? I believe that profit and personal gain is not his only motivation.

  • Brent Buckner

    I think if you revisit the timeline then you might see the claims as somewhat less outlandish.

    We’ve been told: the original 1MW plant had an array of 100 reactors of 10kW (so “only” two orders of magnitude difference to 100W). Further, the 1MW plant was an array of low temperature E-cats (aka E-cat LT).

    We’ve been told that the precursor of the E-cat X was the Hot Cat (aka E-cat HT), which was already being tested by others in 2013 (e.g. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing-of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/#4637308457e4 ).

  • LarryJ

    Rossi said that the 1 MW reactor using the quarkx will be closer to 1 cubic meter. I expect the containers will in the end be used for their original purpose, which is shipping.

  • Brent Buckner

    IH was in charge of the 1 year test. Perhaps they wanted cost information, robustness information, transmutation pathway information. Perhaps they wanted evidence to show customers with big industrial applications on the line.

  • Brent Buckner

    I doubt that net forest loss scenario in light of the U.S. experience (“total forest area has been relatively stable for the last 100 years” – per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forests_of_the_United_States )

  • US_Citizen71

    The 1 MW of heat energy leaves the plant in the form of steam inside of an insulated steam pipe that runs to some outside piece of equipment. That piece of equipment uses the steam heat energy and cools the steam dissipating the heat and condensing the steam back into water. The water then flows back into the plant and is heated back into steam removing more heat energy from the plant, starting the cycle over. What part of that do you not comprehend?

  • Brent Buckner

    You wrote: “So far, those skilled in the art do not appear to have been able to reproduce the issued patent in a working capacity”

    Perhaps not an attempt to reproduce the issued patent, but Parkhomov claimed success in replicating Rossi’s hot cat. (c.f. http://kb.e-catworld.com/index.php?title=Alexander_Parkhomov%27s_E-Cat_replication_experiments )

  • Pekka Janhunen

    It’s one good question. Another similar thing is that if energy becomes cheap, one should invest into developing materials that use common elements such as aluminium, magnesium and silicon as opposed to stainless steel, for example, even if refining them is energy intensive. The need to start discussing topics like these is why Mats is arranging his symposium in June, I understood.

    • Omega Z

      Polymers made from fossil sources and stone.(Synthetic concrete) Buildings that last 5000 to 25000 years. The timeline for this transition and tree farming is sustainable especially as far less wood will be utilized per building.. Synthetic concrete. The science is already known. Energy cost has been the issue in implementation…

  • Andreas Moraitis

    „…most amateur investors (around 90%!) lose their money.“

    I do not believe in this figure. Maybe it is true for daytraders, but even in their case it has never been proven, at least as far as I know. This looks to me rather like a tactics to keep people from acting on their own, with the intention to secure the profit of banks and fund managers.

    Which does of course not mean that private persons should not inform themselves very thoroughly before they risk anything.

  • Gerard McEk

    IT is cear that in that case the price of electricity would drop dramatically and you would not be able to sell electricity for the existing price!

  • Brent Buckner

    Right, so “a word of caution on the timeline”, as Adrian Ashfield gave us, seems to me to be sound. It doesn’t seem to me to be standing in the way of Rossi changing the world, rather it seems to me to help people in their planning.

  • That is a proven statistical fact. We have to face facts if we wish to find real solutions and survive in a world where the population bomb has already gone off. The current world population as of 3/26/2016 is over 7,411,238,000. people, far beyond the long term holding capacity of planet Earth. The idea that the USA can and should allow unlimited, never-ending legal immigration as well as massive illegal invasion is beyond the realm of rational thought. LENR and other new technologies will help, but they cannot solve of all our problems or make everyone rich and happy.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Well, the plant was not a public demo.

      And there really no way to realize how the plant will perform until you run it
      in a real industrial environment for about a year. How long does the fuel
      charge last? How much input power does the plant consume over time? How often are parts required to be replaced. All of this information is required before
      ANYONE will sign on the dotted line.

      No one going to purchase an airplane without knowing the fuel costs and ALSO the maintains cost. How long does the engine last before replacement?

      As a result, the plant was not sold, but ONLY the heat from the plant was purchased. And just like when a company delivers a truck load of pipes to a job site, then do you trust the truck driver to count the pipes delivered? The constriction company not going to truest the driver! And the reverse is also true! Does the company delivering the pipes trust the job site to count the pipes delivered?

      As a result, there are checks and balances. Both parties will thus have their OWN TRUST system in place.

      Rossi is monitoring the plant and the output. However the customer ALSO hired an independent firm to check the results. The ERV (Expert Responsible for Validation).

      Neither party is going to take the claims of the other party on face value. So they both will have their own data.

      This is really basic business!
      I am delivering your something, so both parties have checks and balances in place to ensure they ONLY pay for what was purchased. Or on the other side to ensure they get paid for 4 pipes delivered and not the customer say they only received two pipes!

      So the ERV report is exciting since it will give real world numbers as to the kind of cost savings that the 1MW plant can achieve, and such a report is not from Rossi, but from a customer consuming heat delivered.

      Of course the ERV report will NOT give the cost of running the plant. And refined nickel like Ni62 is in the $10,000 per gram range right now. However, looking at the 3rd party report, it looks like the reactor “breeds” Ni62. It possible that Rossi used this plant to build up a supply of Ni62!

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • psi2u2

      “Right now average IQs in the USA are dropping like a rock.”

      “That is a proven statistical fact.”

      Hmm….

      Please cite your sources or don’t make such outlandish claims.

  • Where does wealth come from? Does it come from government? What entity will distribute wealth to everyone, and what entity will create that wealth?

    Listen folks, I want to keep the discussion on LENR; I am just trying to point out that LENR technology is not a cure-all. This website should educate people about LENR, but it should not mislead people into thinking that LENR will solve all of our problems. LENR should be a tool, not a religion or a false hope. We have to fight many battles on many fronts to survive on this planet, and energy production technology is just part of the equation.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Wealth comes from when an individual does and creates something more than the input cost of that action.

      If a company can make MORE money than the cost of hiring you, then they will hire as many people like that as possible until such time that hiring additional people will NOT make them money!

      I mean, why else would someone pay you for work, or something you have to offer?

      So if by a company hiring you, you make them money, they will fight to pay you!

      And it does not have to be a company hiring
      you! If you can grow some tomatoes, and if the value of those tomatoes is
      greater than the input costs, then you are creating wealth.

      The key concept here is that because you have a VERY nice car, this does not suggest that someone else goes without a car. Say during the summer you find an old rusted out 38 Chevy in your grandfather’s barn. It can sit there for years and continue to rot.

      Or you can spend all your spare time restoring that car to mint condition. When you drive around town with that beautiful car, people will admire you and say what a nice car! And someone might even offer you $75,000 for that car.

      The VERY important concept here is because you have that beautiful car, it does not suggest or means that someone else goes without that car BECAUSE YOU HAVE ONE!

      And in place of restoring that car, perhaps you start up a coffee shop, and use that money to purchase that beautiful car. The net result is the same – ie: your efforts created wealth to allow you to own a nice car.

      The concept here is that your labor or efforts created that car, and you having that car does not mean someone else goes without a car. Of course others seeing you have that nice car might want to take it away, or perhaps tax you more because they think it is unfair you have that nice car. And they justify this want to tax or take away your car because they been told that you have a nice car, and someone else now has to go without a nice car.

      Wealth creating thus does not mean that because you ate a burger, or have a nice car, that someone else goes without a burger or car – unless of course those without that car or burger want to take away your car or burger!

      At the end of the day, if you do nothing, then that 38 Chevy would remain a rusted hunk of metal without any value to anyone until such time efforts and labor are used to restore that car. You put your labor into that car, you now have a beautiful car that is the envy of the town. Or if fixing cars is not your gig, then grow tomatoes and buy that car. The result is the same thing – your wealth creating allowed to you own a nice car.

      So while socialists are all about taking that labor and efforts away from people, a capitalist realizes that it is efforts and labor that created the wealth that socialists want to take away from you! (and I thougt socialists did not believe in slavery! – when you consider taxes and deficit spending, they have in effect turned most working people into government slaves).

      Computers caused a boom in the 1980’s because it allowed business to be productive faster than governments were taking away the wealth such business were creating by adopting computers. However, adopting a new computer today will not increase your productivity much more then it did during the wealth creating boom that computers caused in the 1980’s
      Companies spend billions on software every year, they ONLY purchase that software because the cost of the software is LESS then the benefits received by purchasing that software.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • g

        The only difference between socialists and capitalists is that socialists expropriate the commons in favor of the state as opposed to capitalists who expropriate the commons in favor of private individuals.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          No the difference is socialist take that money and wealth by force. You don’t to jail for not purchasing a burger from MacDonald’s, but you do if you don’t pay the government.
          R
          Albert

  • Andrew

    It will take decades to cut the miles on the red tape before domestic ecats would be available to joe blow public. Industry and utilities will be the first to venture. As for “if I can produce electricity for free I would sell it”. Sure this would work for a while but as the technology proliferates selling excess juice would be like trying to sell sunlight. I’m sure people thought the same thing when electric freezers came out, “I’m going to make a fortune selling ice!”

    • I think that estimate is too pessimistic. The public will DEMAND the Quak ASAP. If it actually works and produces independent home electricity and home heating at a very low cost, such as electricity at 3 cents per kilowatt hour or less, then politicians will want to win favor with the public by speeding the regulatory process. In California especially the cost of electricity is sky high and people will resent any attempt to stall consumer availability.

      • Andrew

        Only after money is made hand over fist. Never underestimate the relationship between big money and politicians. They can always buy more votes.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Losses are part of the game, even for professionals. But if investors respect some principles, such as diversification, and avoid too risky decisions the probability to end up with a decent result after a long enough time (decades) is relatively high. Certainly, in short-term trading you have usually no chance against the big players.

  • cashmemorz

    From the viewpoint that everything in the human social sphere devolves to the plane of power, yes, war of some kind could be used to keep those on power, in power. It is just the kind of war that is to be determined. Propaganda a la skepto-paths?

  • Stephen Taylor

    You are so right. It may be time for a comprehensive reevaluation of this entire situation. It has been five years since Rossi went public. What have we really learned? Not much. We should start thinking about a contrarian view.
    As far as I can tell the Pd D reaction is weak and inconsistent. The evidence for Ni H is very reminiscent of same. Where are we? Where are we headed? I don’t like what I see.

  • LarryJ

    I think it is more likely that the bourgeois will put their energy and money into employing Rossi’s very inexpensive products to enhance and power new products of their own and then using those products to try and control segments of the economy much like Google controls the search engine segment. This is a paradigm shift so it is very difficult to even imagine what new products might come into being. The opportunities for the bourgeois will be immense and since they tend to be well informed (a la Bill Gates) they will have already shifted out of energy and will be watching for the next opportunity. War is pointless and this shift cannot be stopped.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Yeah good point. For example, it would be hard to imagine what smart watch made from vacuum tubes would look like.

  • Omega Z

    NCkhawk,

    ->”A heat protection suit would be needed”
    You have no Idea what your talking about or any real world experience.

    The 4-250KW reactors only take up about 20% of the container.(The rest is filled with the older 52-20KW system that’s not used) The 1MW output would produce approximately 5 gallons a minute of 100`C to 120`C water/steam(+/- 1 gallon dependent on a few variables). An Insulated 1″ to 1.25″ pipe would transfer this amount of heated water or steam quite easily from the container to an exterior exchanger.(Point of use.) There would be little heat dissipated within the container.

    I have no doubt that the temperature of the shipping container does not exceed 110`F in the heat of a Florida summer. However, there are people in a few industries who work 8/12 hour days the year round in 130`F to 140`F temps and they do not wear heat protective gear. Just a pair of jeans and short sleeve or “T” shirts. Some within 4 foot of 3`x3` foot or larger open door of an industrial furnace exposed to (850`C/1600`F).

    As to Rossi’s where about’s, except for periodic physical checks or when issues arise in the 1MW container, he and his team are in a secondary container with workbench, desk and E-cat control systems that has an AC(appeared to be 10K/12K Btu) installed in the side of this secondary container.

    As to the current status of the 1MW plant at this time. If I were the customer, I would be waiting for the upgraded 1MW system with all the issues fixed. With approximately a 6`x6` footprint including all controls. Likely all computer monitored within the maintenance department office. Maintenance personnel dispensed only when there’s an issue.

  • Omega Z

    I have a producing oil well and oil is $100 a barrel. Why would I want to drill more wells when by not doing so, the price will only go up?
    Even at $40 a barrel and some losing money while storage facilities are nearly full, they keep drilling new wells. Why?

    It’s one of the quirky effects of the Capitalist free market system. The fear that there is someone in the shadows waiting to under cut your business and take market share.(And usually there is.) Even given a monopoly, you know it’s days are numbered. You sell as much as you can as fast as you can and when you meet price resistance and sales declines, cut the price to reach the next lower market level. Rinse and repeat. This is the path to long term business survival. To grow and become big enough to survive when the market bottoms out. Tho even this is not guaranteed.

    Thus what you propose would be short lived and you would eventually and likely very soon find yourself broke and out of business..

  • Omega Z

    “It is cheaper, more reliable, and more convenient.”
    I agree. It also provides peace of mind. Any problems fall on others to deal with.

  • Omega Z

    (If it’s real and IF it works)

    According to Rossi, It would appear it may produce electricity directly.
    However, he adds the caveat that it is yet to be seen whether it’s efficient enough for that path.

    Otherwise, It will only be economical as a localized grid system as turbines aren’t very efficient at small scale..

  • Omega Z

    ->”lands that usa and nato destroyed.”

    Lands that were destroyed long before the USA and Nato existed. Lands of perpetual war for 1000’s of years.

  • Omega Z

    A guaranteed annual income for a person would require a guaranteed annual input of labor from that person.

    In reality, Such guarantees are worthless.

    • cashmemorz

      Worthless because giving everyone free$ leads to inflation. Merchants see more money available for basic needs raises prices for basic needs items. The guaranteed income people will be pay for basics even at mildly inflated prices because the basics have to be obtained. Inflation increases by ripple effect through economy. Slowly everything goes up in price. To cover the inflation more $ is printed and given to banks as the staring point for money infusion into the nations economy. Round and round like a snake biting its own tail.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Yes, I think the take away message is that smart people from prestigious institutions aren’t infallible.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Lisa Rychlicki March 26, 2016 at 5:02 PM
    Dear Dr Rossi:
    Do you have to wear eyeglasses when you look at the E-Cat QuarkX ?
    Thank you if you can answer, Lisa

    Andrea Rossi March 27, 2016 at 8:11 AM
    Lisa Rychlicki:
    Yes. The light is unsustainable for the eyes if you look straight into it.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • Bob Tivnan

      This makes me wonder if electricity is generated using existing photovoltaic technology, which is what BLP is doing with their SunCell (except it’s not LENR acording to Mills). Has Rossi made any statements that rule out photovoltaics? I was under the impression that the Quark generates electricity directly.

      • artefact

        I think he ruled it out but I can’t find the comment at the moment.

        He also said the electricity is comming directly from the waver.

        • DrD

          Correct, he said also that it’s not efficient, same regarding thermo electrics.
          So obviously the quark must be a lot more efficient than those.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        A possible variant of the converter https://en.wikipedia.org/…/Thermionic_convert…

  • Christina

    Frank,

    I don’t understand if Dottore Rossi is talking only about making E-Cat’s to sell to factories for their use or is he also talking about making home E-Cats also?

    Thanks for finding out. Sorry if this was already covered.

    Happy Easter to everyone in the world.

    • Frank Acland

      AR has said they don’t yet have safety certification for home E-Cat products, so the first products will apparently be industrial ones.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Let’s not be silly here. Because I tell you that too much sun is bad, you switch that to meaning NEVER go out in the sun?

    The idea that I am suggesting a country does not trade to its benefit is beyond silly. What is this, a grade 1 discussion?

    When at what point in any time did I suggest trade is bad thing? I mean, really, just wow dogs barking in the night? So too much sun is bad now becomes NEVER go out in the sun? What kind of silly logical thinking is that?

    I simply stated that a nation that does not property manage it trade will go down the crap hole of losing their industrial base, and we seen that occur in the past 30 years.
    Prior to all of these silly open trade agreements North America had the strongest economy in the world by managing that trade.

    What economy are you talking about that has such a open trade policy that is doing well today? ANY economy doing well today has huge trade barrios in place, be they the result of regulations or that of culture issues.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • radvar

    Re skepticism about e-Cat X:

    Consider rapid and unexpected technological advances:

    – aviation: first powered flight in 1903; dogfights in 1917
    – nuclear energy: atomic pile, 1942, atomic war, 1945
    – semi-conductor technology: started in the 1930’s; lasers invented in 1960; semiconductor laser, 1962
    – computation: code breaking in 1940’s, IBM 360 in 1964, smart phones in 2000.
    – cold fusion: Pons-Fleischman experiment in 1989; close to commercial breakout in 2016

    Richard Feynman: “There’s Plenty of Room at the Bottom.”

    We don’t know what’s down there, and we can’t predict how fast it can be brought to usefullness.

    A healthy skepticism is always appropriate, at minimum to guard against dashed hopes.

    Doubt because things seem too fantastic needs to be tempered with a review of reality.

    • DrD

      Hot fusion?

      • GreenWin

        1951-Promised ‘unlimited’ clean energy
        1971 – delivered EXACTLY ZERO WATTS energy – begged fo $Bs$$ MORE taxpayer funding
        1991- repeat 1971ZERO WATTS energy – more taxpayer funds begging
        2011- more failures e.g. NIF, $Bs$ wasted on ITER Boondoggle…
        2016 – rinse, repeat NOT ONE WATT USEFUL energy since 1951!!

  • cashmemorz

    After a generation or two of everyone getting used to the idea it might work like Clovis says. Its the catch 22 that inflation puts a wrench into that theory. Maybe it might work if that problem of inflation is somehow mitigated.

  • cashmemorz

    It all eventually devolves or evolves to the subjective sense of power. At first it’s: how much power do I as an individual feel I have over my immediate environment. As my life improves it becomes keeping up with the Jones’s, then showing that I am better than the Jones’s. A billionaire is less satisfied with things as they are then is the person just meeting his basic needs. If applied to everyone by use of physical power via LENR or other means, where does it stop?

  • Surveilz

    The ever cocky Mr. Rossi. Let’s hope he surrounds himself with benevolent financial backers and not the usual crop of savage capitalists.

  • DrD

    that’s right and he implied (despite the lower efficiency when producing electric compared to heat) it’s more efficient than Thermo or photo which is what I thought I said. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.