Rossi: 'Snakes' Alerting Authorities Asking for Prohibition of the E-Cat

After Andrea Rossi announced that three more E-Cat orders have been placed by the parent company of the customer who used the 1MW E-Cat plant, there has been a lot of discussion on who the customer might be, and some questions to Rossi on the JONP about the subject.

Rossi said that he is under NDA with the customer, and can’t give any information about who they are, or where they operate — and said they don’t want to attract the attention of the blogosphere. When Bernie Koppenhofer suggested that the publicity from the customer talking about satisfaction with the E-Cat and cost savings might be very beneficial, Rossi responded with this comment:

Andrea Rossi
April 15, 2016 at 11:48 AM
Bernie Koppenhofer:
Our Customer wants to work in peace.
Just for you to know: we have evidence ( undisputable evidence) that all the guys of the family of the snakes have sent libraries of letters to all the possible authorities asking for the prohibition of the E-Cat because it emits toxic radiations. These letters, that have been sent from the usual and well known and very vociferous snakes, ( our attorney got due copies of them ) give evidence of the fact that they want to kill the E-Cat NOT because they think it does not work, but because they DO think that it works: otherwise they could not think to stop it sending authorities to check ionizing radiations OUTSIDE the E-Cats. Your intelligence will allow you to make the logic deductions.
All the other considerations depend on our product’s distribution in the market, let in peace our Customer(s).
Warm Regards,
A.R.

We are well aware how the E-Cat is a lightning rod for passionate support as well as harsh criticism. We have seen two incidents in the past where nuclear regulation agencies (in Florida and North Carolina) have been alerted by individuals about E-Cat operations and officers have been sent out to investigate, so it’s not hard to imagine this being done in other areas.

I can understand that an E-Cat customer doesn’t want negative attention from government authorities, but if E-Cat doesn’t produce harmful radiation, then what would be the harm of having some inspectors check it out? I the E-Cat is a commercial product, that is going to happen at some point. You can’t keep them hidden forever, and I think it’s best to get this issue out in the open in the early days of the technology to hasten its acceptance.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    It is time for the Hollywood screenplay writers to warm up their fingers.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    It is time for the Hollywood screenplay writers to warm up their fingers.

    • Stefenski

      Horror story or Comedy ?

      • C. Kirk

        A horror story if your heavily invested in fossil fuels….. A comedy about flat earthers

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Action. Rossi is action man, actor.

  • winebuff67

    I hope they do check and make a full report. Then the report is public and we will know once and for all who this is.

    • US_Citizen71

      No all we will know is that it is JMC Products, there is no reason an inspector would dig deeper than the registered name for the company.

  • LuFong

    This brings to mind the earlier investigation by the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services where the report dated Jan 13, 2015 of an interview December 11, 2014 with JT Vaughn. The report states that that JT Vaughn indicated that “Mr Rossi did not appear to be credible (paraphase).”

    This is only a few months before the start of the 1MW test. Could IH by that time have written Rossi off?

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    This was the one issue that might create the real problem to mass availability.
    Politics, influences, lobbying.
    Any certification needs approval from institutional bodies, and this is where it can get sticky, the wrench gets thrown in the works.

    • HS61AF91

      just a thought, there are off-shore tax havens, perhaps there will be off shore e-Cat havens too.

  • Barbierir

    If the lawsuit continues it’s inevitable that the real customer will be called to give testimony, no way that this information will be left out of the proceeding

    • Fibber McGourlick

      I’m not joking. This is a serious suggestion. End the turmoil before it gets out of hand in this simple way. At least publish the ERV report. Maybe it’ll stop the nonsense.

  • Barbierir

    If the lawsuit continues it’s inevitable that the real customer will be called to give testimony, no way that this information will be left out of the proceeding

  • Hank Mills

    April 15, 2016 at 12:22 PM

    Dear Andrea,

    I think I’m aware of a few of the “snakes” to whom you are referring.

    In reality, most of them have very little to no concern WHATSOEVER
    about radiation being emitted outside of the reactor. The fundamental
    root of their antagonistic and obsessively mean spirited behavior is
    simple: they’re jealous.

    No one has been able to develop an LENR technology that comes remotely close to the E-Cat.

    – No one has achieved the power output per gram of fuel. Parkhomov,
    who replicated the Rossi Effect, was able to achieve about a kilowatt
    per gram of fuel. This is completely optimized and without the know
    how you possess that obviously boosts this figure higher. Conversely,
    you’re competitors sometimes brag about a few watts per KILOGRAM of
    their version of a “charge.”

    – No one has achieved stable output at the ultra high temperatures
    the E-Cat can reach. If the E-Cat X operates at 1480C, as you have
    stated, you’re literally miles beyond them.

    – Although no one has achieved the massive power output you have per
    gram of fuel, the E-Cat is also capable of doing this in a SELF
    SUSTAINING MANNER for periods of many hours. And this is not a new
    development: the 18 hour test Dr. Levi performed many years ago with a
    much more early version of the E-Cat was mostly in SSM!

    – When all of this is brought up, you’re detractors then struggle to
    look for negatives about your technology. They usually resort to off the
    wall and false accusations like: he must produce neutrons at such high
    temperatures, he must “seed” his fuel with radioactive isotopes, or he
    is risking human safety by operating in self sustain mode.

    As I said before, the root of all this hostility is JEALOUSY. They
    are breaking one of the Ten Commandments by COVETING your technology.
    Then, furthermore, they are giving FALSE WITNESS against you.

    They know as well as both of us that the technology is safe. If it
    were not safe, you’d be in the grave by now. For goodness sakes, you’ve
    witnessed so many meltdowns during intentional torture tests that if the
    technology emitted radiation you wouldn’t be with us today!

    Sadly, in addition to their jealous rage that they were not the first
    to develop a practical high powered LENR technology like the E-Cat,
    some of them have developed a personal vendetta against you. They have
    issues with you as a human being. I know this for a fact: one “snake”
    told me that if the E-Cat turned out to be real the fact *you* had
    developed it would basically shatter his reality (paraphrasing here and
    not giving an exact quote).

    I just wanted to set the record straight for readers. The snakes out
    there aren’t concerned about radiation being emitted: they’re simply
    acting like a snot nosed brat in elementary school who is pitching a
    tantrum because his entry into the science fair didn’t win a medal. He
    then goes up to the display table of the star pupil who took FIRST PLACE
    and tries to knock it over. The good news is that in the end, the
    principal of the school catches him in time, puts a dunce cap on his
    head, and makes him stand in the corner: where he needs to stay.

    Sincerely,

    Hank

    • cashmemorz

      If the snakes read your piece, and I’m sure they will at some point, they will see themselves for what they are and go into denial or worse.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Unfortunately all 100% unsubstantiated claims at this point. Only time and court evidence will tell if any of what you said is true…..

      • psi2u2

        This is not true. The results may not be as fully substantiated as many would like, and controversy over interpretation remains, and therefore reserving judgement may be appropriate, but saying “100% unsubstantiated” either is evidence of bias or lack of knowledge.

        • Alex Fenrick

          Psi…I just can’t agree with that. What do we have other than he said/she said at this point? Without a true independent test we just have heresay and conjecture. Unless Rossi or IH come forward with someone independent of them…we really don’t have much to go on.

        • Alex Fenrick

          I guess the problem I have with saying we have anything substantiated is the fact that I see so many questionable moves and connections with Rossi and IH …so many failed promises and illogical decisions that it really taints any evidence or proof or even data without seeing something leagues more substantial than what we have seen thus far. I just don’t feel like there is any thing of substance presented at this point that is significant.

        • HS61AF91

          besides, with each sold e-Cat of whatever flavor, it’s an in-your-face repetition of it working, and the whys and wherefores are going to come from intuitive experimental validation, later.

    • Albert Nilsson

      I think that everybody agrees that Rossi’s claims are extraordinary. The problem is that the methods he uses to validate these claims are so unsatisfactory from an engineering and scientific standpoint.

      • Hank Mills

        I disagree. Extraordinary claims only require ordinary evidence. The overly skeptical try to demand evidence that would far exceed what would be required for any routine and mundane claim: the efficiency range of an appliance for example. However, Andrea Rossi in his own tests and multiple third party replications have clearly demonstrated excess heat and even self sustained operation — without input. The fact the E-Cat works has indeed be substantiated by multiple parties, across the world, with different test setups, and even with slight variations to the fuel parameters.

        • Albert Nilsson

          But the evidence presented are not even ordinary. It is substandard, and only remarkable in how many questions it give rise to.

        • Alex Fenrick

          I completely disagree Hank. Ordinary claims require ordinary level of evidence. Extraordinary claims absolutely require extraordinary level of evidence as they should. This goes for claims of every type across the board in all areas of science and technology if not everything around us in the world in general.

        • MorganMck

          Yeah like replication by multiple, credible and indisputably independent third parties. I want to believe, but lets face it Rossi is just not a closer.

      • Gerrit

        I disagree, the method Rossi uses is perfectly valid for proving to a customer he has a commercially viable product.

        It is not Rossi’s job to show the world scientifically how LENR works.

        • Albert Nilsson

          But then you should not be surprised either that the academic institutions regard it coldly and with suspicion this far.
          And I am not discussing any theories about how it works, just measurements that would show without doubt that it works.

          • Gerrit

            I would like to have them too. I would like to finally see “cold fusion” solved and advance to a new era and listen to all the mainstream scientists explaining why they avoided cold fusion research for a quarter of a century until it was all proven to them on a commercial scale before they actually started doing scientific experiments themselves.

        • HS61AF91

          Right on. His proof comes in the name of 100% market share, to start with.

      • LookMoo

        Until Rossi got tangled with IH he said that after receiving patent protection he would release IP to the public (to allow replication).

        I think he should revert to that policy.

        Clearly the NDA is designed to:

        1) Keep competition -out
        2) IH -in
        3) Rossi -back

        Going back to that opens source policy would probably serve him and Leonardo Corp. well.

        • LarryJ

          I have been following closely for years and I could be wrong but I never recall Rossi saying that he would release IP to the public except through the IP contained within his patents.

          • LookMoo

            Oh yea, I think it was in 2011 or 2012. But back then of course he didn’t really know how/why his LENR device (ecat) was working and I think they are still trying to figure that exact theory out.

            Back then Mr. Rossi was also predicting that within a year or two a robotised factory would produce a huge numbers of eCat, having a exponential output factor. If I remember correctly it was in connection with this predication that statement was made.

    • georgehants

      Hank, I think your comment applies to almost every advance in science and beyond, there is a human condition, apparently, that makes many turn against those working for change againsed established Dogma etc. as you say.
      If anything is holding back this World then this strange defect is most responsible.
      One must surely add the other strong factors in this saga, that of money and power, both the root of almost all evil for millennia.
      It is I think time for the end of all games of this kind and for Cold Fusion to be clearly brought out into the open, even if that means a competent and honest government task force (if there is any such thing) moving in and within one month giving a solid report of the status of Mr. Rossi’s discovery.
      This would completely end the need for a court case beyond the petty squabbles over money and Mr. Rossi could hopefully get on with his life and work.

      • DrD

        Without some one of Rossis stature, work ethic, determination and finances etc etc you won’t get LENR, certainly not anything like what he’s producing. No one else will fight the vested interests as well as he is. He’s taking a big risk. George, if your truly serious about being concerned for the poor needing his
        invention then you might consider sending him a really big no obligation
        donation. Anything less than a 5 figure sum won’t be much use.

        • georgehants

          DrD, thanks for your opinion, I find it full of faults and I see no sense for your silly donation suggestion.
          Perhaps you couud explain what it has to do with poor people caring about other poor people.

    • HS61AF91

      100% agree about those who posses this jealousy. There is also a real threat, when you make something that threatens the establishment. I wonder what came first; the jealousy, or the establishment threat. Anyway, awesome comment.

  • Alex Fenrick

    I will preface this by saying clearing I am absolutely NOT saying anything that Rossi is working on is toxic. But I think a fair question to ask as this is cutting edge fringe technology that admittedly is not fully understood to a molecular level even by supporters, do we know for sure that there is not cause for question about possible radiation or some other anomalous environmental side effect? I’m not trying to be argumentative…just curious if we know if there has been extensive testing or just assumptions and inferences regarding this. I can understand a deep frustration by Rossi and a customer over a visit by inspectors…but honestly shouldn’t it kinda be expected….I mean what if for example…this was a different system designed by someone far less intelligent than Rossi or someone with bad intentions…we would be very glad an inspector took a look when it was found out the device was spewing radiation or some odd environmental side effect. Definitely not fair if inspectors are being sent maliciously…but it could only happen a couple times before the inspector would call “crying wolf” on the whistleblower. I just think dealing with inspectors should be a given as part of the territory in this area of science. I also think it is a bad idea hiding the customer…it is doing exactly what he did not want to happen…cause more skepticism and ballyhoo (rarely get a chance to use that word)…it just feels so fishy to me with this mystery company when you look at the whole history of it all so far. Just my perspective on this new installment of the Rossi Chronicles!

    • In the UK, when govt. agencies get involved, and especially if they are following an agenda, things usually get much rougher than an inspector of some kind politely calling. Typically, following a ‘complaint’ (usually spurious when any special interest is threatened), doors are kicked in by goon squads, who then proceed to seize goods, harass employees, and issue various threats to the proprietor. In the meantime, bank accounts are frozen, cards terminated, mobile phones shut down, passports nulled, reputations trashed in the media, and so on, making the principals into instant ‘non persons’.

      The recent story of David Noakes, First Immune and gc-MAF, an apparently successful cure for cancer, illustrates this process, in this case conducted on both sides of the Atlantic by corrupt drugs agencies working on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry: The degree of co-ordination between the agencies, other govt. departments including various spooks, banks, ISPs and the news media can be chilling.

      http://www.abeldanger.net/2015/08/an-introduction-to-gcmaf-by-dr-david.html
      http://naturalsociety.com/gcmaf-another-suppressed-cancer-treatment/
      http://www.naturalnews.com/050553_Dr_Bradstreet_GcMAF_cancer_therapy.html

      • Alex Fenrick

        I don’t know about the UK…but here in the US where Rossi operates…a company RARELY gets seized and shut down the way you are describing unless there is reason to be shut down. Sabotage by government inspection is even further in the skeptic realm than us skeptics over here lol. Again….the inspection angle is really just an excuse…

    • psi2u2

      Rossi has reportedly been working on safety certification issues for several years now and claims to have solid certification at least for the industrial cats in the US. He has repeatedly stated that he still does not have certification for home units and explained that, of course, the bar for putting one in your basement is a lot higher than putting a 1 MW reactor in an industrial setting.

      • Alex Fenrick

        Do we know if he actually has these certifications or just going on his word? I can only imagine the safety certification and testing hoops he will have to jump through for home units….

    • HS61AF91

      There are more energy emanations passing through all of our bodies now than will ever be known, or cataloged as to riskiness. That LENR experimenters remain alive, active, and as for Rossi, physically phenomenal, I understand, but do not so thoroughly embrace your reasonable concerns.

      • Alex Fenrick

        I am not suggesting that Rossi has any need for concern that would stop his work….I was simply asking if we actually know if there are any risks. While you may not thoroughly embrace that question…pretty much most of the world would if these are to be installed in homes eventually. Obviously this will all be worked out in time if Rossi able to bring a product to market…but either way something to at least think about.

    • clovis ray

      Hi Alex,
      From all i know,there is NO harmful,radiation, emitted from original e-cat or x.
      Can not vouch for anything else, i think others have observed small amounts but nothing above background, and plainly not harmfull, Dr, rossi spent whole year, in a container with no ill effects, proof enough,
      Just wanted to mention, that Dr. Rossi, and astronaut scott kelly, spent a year in different containers, one on earth the other in space, it was in all the main stream media,(msm)
      About mr kelly, breaking recorded history for being in space, while Dr R was beavering away, trying to save our world, and not a word can be said when this great invention is verified once again, please Dr R don’t give up, and i know you won’t, you will be recognised one day, and the whole world will Honor you for your great contribution, to us, you have a huge crowd of well wishers, i guarantee you. don’t let us down, you always come through, this is what sets you aside from all the rest, and i for one have learned to trust your judgment on a lot of things over the years, god bless and good luck.

      • Alex Fenrick

        Thanks for the info Clovis. I did read somewhere that Rossi was having some health issues at one point recently….but I am guessing if the timing coincided with his stay in the container…it would have been mentioned already…especially by my fellow skeptics lol. I will admit Rossi has SERIOUS conviction for spending so much time in that container…most people would go insane after a week let alone a year…props to him there for sure!

  • attaboy

    We knew snakes would abound! They will lose a fortune when e-cat replaces their crap energy. But there seems to be some perception out there that nuclear means toxic, fallout, etc. It would be nice if a gov’t authority would declare that e-cat is safe.

    • Governments stand to lose billions in energy tax revenues if cold fusion ‘escapes’ before means are found to enforce ‘metering’ of the energy produced (self-reporting via mobile tech or internet, with ‘kill’ programming if contact is lost).

      Consequently they will probably react quite quickly to any ‘concerns’ the shills are voicing by imposing temporary bans on sales or leasing until taxation schemes are in place, the (bullet proof) pretext of course being the supposed need for further safety testing. Of course the establishment media will first have to admit that CF is real, which will provide a little warning of forthcoming restrictions. Certainly no politician is ever going to declare the technology safe – they lack the knowledge to do so and are in any case risk averse in the extreme (especially when there is no profit it it for them).

      • HS61AF91

        Seems your realistic observation I read also previously. I agree government would try, but also I think they would not succeed. When folk have an energy generator in their hands, and the internet disseminating the reality of this, governments who try to hold up this progress for extra taxing are doomed to be chucked out at the next election.

        • Here (UK) we tend to get a few different faces in government every five years, but they just carry on singing from pretty much the same song sheet. It seems to be much the same in most countries that have a ‘democratic’ system of government.

          In other words, chuck one lot out and the next lot just continue as if nothing has changed – which of course is exactly the case.

          • HS61AF91

            Hmm, perhaps, did see the people in London out protesting the PM, and that was about some papers in Panama. I just conceive a different, more determined outcome for a government who tries to depress a near free form of energy, already in some hands, and more wanting to get their hands on them, without some form of tax. Like you do not need the government to spend your tax money on energy distribution and creation systems, when you got the whole thing sitting in you living room.

    • HS61AF91

      Ask the US Navy! Do not however, expect a response!

  • C. Kirk

    A horror story if your heavily invested in fossil fuels….. A comedy about flat earthers

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Action. Rossi is action man, actor.

  • Tom59

    This is all deja vu and dragging on and on. I am sure a demo unit at up at the Kimmel Institute or at the upcoming meeting in Sendai, along with giving all details + the secret sauce would kickstart the technology. This would end this terrible situation and I just don’t believe that we cannot convince academia, Google, Bosch, Bill Gates etc to invest. Making everything public makes this thing unstoppable. Not doing it and continuing the present path would result in never ending frustration. It is a moral obligation to the world to go fully public now.

    • HS61AF91

      Consider going public in the manner Leonardo/Rossi is doing is the only way possible. In that other ways E-Cats could be gulped down the throat of existing energy interests. That would be very detrimental to humanity, and Love, humanity’s salvation, would experience setback.

  • Tom59

    This is all deja vu and dragging on and on. I am sure a demo unit set at up at the Kimmel Institute or at the upcoming meeting in Sendai, along with providing all details + the secret sauce would kickstart the technology. This would end this terrible situation and I just don’t believe that we cannot convince academia, Google, Bosch, Bill Gates etc to invest. Making everything public makes this thing unstoppable. Not doing it and continuing the present path would result in never ending frustration. It is a moral obligation to the world to go fully public now.

    • g

      Only decent third party replications will make a difference.

    • HS61AF91

      Consider going public in the manner Leonardo/Rossi is doing is the only way possible. In that other ways E-Cats could be gulped down the throat of existing energy interests. That would be very detrimental to humanity, and Love, humanity’s salvation, would experience setback.

  • ScienceFan

    Sounds like they can’t even keep their story straight. First they were saying that it works and they want the sole licensing and patents for it. Then they said it didn’t work well enough during the test that the ERV stated had 50+ COP and that Rossi shouldn’t be paid. Now they’re saying it works (again), but that there’s harmful radiation that no one has ever talked about in the past?

    Give me a break.

  • Job001

    Excellent evidence now exists that monopoly power snakes oppose competition to their monopolies. These oppositions include denial, legislation, delay, obfuscation, trickery, assassination, creation of false IP, buying and shelving good IP, mendacity and slander.

    Examples;Tobacco delay and off-shoring of their cancer sticks;Fossil fuels funding of climate denial;
    FF funding of fracking un-regulation; Drug Research paying for generic delay; Too big to fail banking remaining essentially unregulated On and On etc.

    None of this monopoly power activity is science but rather results from a long list of cognitive biases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
    This list includes “Self-serving bias”, “Loss aversion bias” and many more relevant ones.

    The point is this, science promotes a bias reduction via the scientific method while concentrated wealth promotes a bias increase due to excess wealth seeking, a corrupting result.

    Consequently, we can understand real bias exists against any new science that does not promote existing monopoly power. No conspiracy claims are needed, consider the biases and “Follow the money”. Snakes however sometimes bed/nest together. -;}

    • HS61AF91

      You are SO right!

  • Gerrit

    Snakes and Puppeteers. Now that Rossi got the F9 key fixed, soon his caps lock key will be stuck again.

  • Gerrit

    Snakes and Puppeteers. Now that Rossi got the F9 key fixed, soon his caps lock key will be stuck again.

    • clovis ray

      lol, come on Garrit, ha, ha, ha,

  • Fibber McGourlick

    Dr. Rossi. Why not put an end to all the arguments, contradictions, fan turmoil and waste of human energy by disproving IH’s claims in the near term? Win the case immediately by putting the One Meg reactor back into operation in the self-sustain mode and providing heat to a swimming pool for a week or two? I hear there
    are a few swimming pools down where you live.

    Someone down there can bring a thermometer (or teabag and pot) to make
    the necessary measurements. If the current reactor isn’t available, one
    of the newly manufactured ones would do as well.

    • Fibber McGourlick

      I’m not joking. This is a serious suggestion. End the turmoil before it gets out of hand in this simple way. At least publish the ERV report. Maybe it’ll stop the nonsense.

    • HS61AF91

      Such a proposal, though good, has been overcome by the event of selling 1MW e-Cats. Really no need to also heat pools.

      • Fibber McGourlick

        It would stop the court case cold. But Rossi saying he’s sold 3 OneMW e-ca reactors to an unknown company does nothing to end the court case clamor and the oncoming problem with IH (and here as well, among his followers and skeptics).

        • HS61AF91

          yep, sure looks like the clamor continues, but how else do we get somewhere?

  • Anon2012_2014

    Oh Jesus — back to snakes and clowns.

    Someone who reads this near Dr. Ing. Rossi, maybe Andrea’s wife, children, or his attorney, needs to keep the keyboard away from Dr. Rossi when his first urge is a Trump like stream of consciousness.

    No doubt that crazy Gary Wright or Krivit put the authorities up to this. Both of them have some kind of irrational need to attack Rossi.

    But it was not Industrial Heat, with whom Rossi has a commercial dispute. To imply this is wrong and does not serve anyone, and certainly not Rossi.

    Dr. Rossi needs to learn how to write for a public audience. A snake should be described as a “third party attacker with a personal vendetta against me”; and thereafter described as a “third party attacker”. Going down to Gary Wright’s level does Dr. Rossi and LENR no good.

    And Frank — publishing the Snake headline is bad form. It makes Rossi look bad. Suggest you change it to “Rossi: third party anonymous attackers ask authorities for prohibition against E-Cat”.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      How do you know it did not originate with Industrial Heat?

      • Anon2012_2014

        Because Industrial Heat is a sober and rational business that has undoubtedly hired top lawyers to tell them not to do such a stupid move. It would not benefit Industrial Heat in any way to have the federal or state regulatory authorities do multiple nuisance inspections on their licensor/suit counterparty and it would be prejudicial against their counterclaims for damages to have “poisoned the waters” by calling in the police. It would also create court evidence that Rossi’s machine actually does work. In short, for IH to call the cops would be legally brain dead.

        Gary Wright has called the Florida regulatory authorities more than once as part of his paranoid schizophrenic “shut down Rossi” tirade. This has the marks of Gary Wright, or maybe Krivit who is just as crazy; not a rational business actor who is advised by legal counsel.

        • Buck

          Was it these same lawyers who gave council on filing patents and involving Brillouin?

          • Anon2012_2014

            @Buck,
            “Was it these same lawyers who gave council on filing patents and involving Brillouin?”

            1) Patents: No. The patents that were filed well before the Rossi deal broke down and lawyers were called in to limit the damage.

            2) We have no evidence, just Rossi’s speculation, that Brillouin is involved with Industrial Heat. I suspect that Dr. Rossi’s speculation is paranoid jealousy about one or more competitors stealing IP. Court case will prove yes or no.

          • Buck

            You are speaking from ignorance.

            IH has invested in Brillouin.

            The notion that Darden, a lawyer, does not involve IP specialists from the beginning lacks sound reasoning in the face of the implications of LENR and the IH License. To suggest that the unnamed lawyers are different for the two events has no basis in any evidence currently available.

          • Anon2012_2014

            “You are speaking from ignorance.”

            Aside from your ad hominem attack, you know no more than I do.

            I speculate that IH has different defense lawyer teams than their normal IP people.

          • Buck

            I think we disagree.

          • Anon2012_2014

            @Buck: “apparently I do know more . . . you were ignorant of the Brillouin connection ”

            I read the speculation from Rossi. You want to show me some evidence other than speculation.

          • Buck

            Just google this website . . . you will find what you need.

          • Anon2012_2014

            @Buck: “apparently I do know more . . . you were ignorant of the Brillouin connection ”

            I read the speculation from Rossi. You want to show me some evidence other than speculation.

            @Buck: “Just google this website . . . you will find what you need.”

            I rest my case.

          • Buck

            Wow . . . that’s your case? Good luck with that.

        • psi2u2

          I also followed the same events as they were unfolding – Wright calling in the inspectors etc. This is probably more of the same paranoid zealotry.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          Ha, ha, ha, you said, “Because Industrial Heat is a sober and rational business” so is Goldman Sachs a”sober and rational business”, they were just fined 5 billion dollars for mortgage fraud. Since corporations are people and you can’t put a corporation in jail, their leaders stay out of jail.

    • Alex Fenrick

      I applaud Frank for using Rossi’s exact words. Rossi is a smart man and is accountable for his own words and actions. If Rossi says something that makes Rossi look bad…it is rightfully his own fault. While I agree with you that Rossi is handling his PR 100% wrong and in a damaging way to himself….Changing Rossi’s words to make it more palatable to some is just disingenuous. Frank has shown to be honest and on the level….so lets respect his posts.

    • HS61AF91

      One need not be politically/politely correct in ones phraseology when you’re right, and you know it. I do believe saying what you feel, and being really a clever chess type thinker, is a great combination. It’s the gift of having a strong Faith and conviction.

      • psi2u2

        There are better ways of showing Faith and conviction.

        • HS61AF91

          always better ways, like science, the answer is try and try again to find ’em.

  • Nelson Vogel

    The judge shall ask for Rossi to present first the ERV report, than a proof of a LENR working device, for evaluation by independent engineers assistants, COP>6, otherwise he will never receive 89 millions. Will be interesting see IH x Leonardo game under court, and the world will know the truth finally. Is LENR real or not ? Where are the robotic factory, products and customers ? Is LENR=UFO ?

    • Omega Z

      So if Rossi does not receive payment, All IH Licensed territory is up for grabs as the contract would be null and void..

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Open letter to the customer of the IH/Rossi year long test:

    Dear Customer:

    I do not know how much you have been following the progress of LENR and the Rossi E-Cat, but I hope you are interested enough to follow events on this site so you will read this letter.

    LENR and specifically the Rossi E-Cat could be a game changer for the world economy and the use of damaging fossil fuels, not to mention the huge number of lives it will save in energy starved under developed nations. I implore you to release Dr. Rossi from his NDA with you concerning information about the recently concluded year long test at your facility. I can imagine how much you value your privacy, but LENR and its benefits are just too great for you to remain silent. Please, the world needs to know the economic benefits you did or did not see during the year long test. Did using the E-Cats to supply heat to your facility save you money, if yes how much?

    One way you might release this information is through your attorney

    Thanks for listening to me, please consider the above with the utmost urgency.

    Bernie Koppenhofer

    bbck7@hotmail.com

    • It can’t hurt to ask.

    • Alain Samoun

      I agree that this letter, if received by the unknown tester company, should have an effect on their supposed decision to keep their name out of this imbroglio, but I now get the feeling that there is no such company,that the test has been done by Rossi and his team + an IH team and the result,to their disappointment and ours, is not positive. Mainly because if there are time when the system produces high COP, maybe up to 50,but most of the time the COP is under 6 or even equal to 1 as the control of the LENR reaction is not (yet?)possible, even of course if the phenomena exists and has been proven since 1989..
      To me the other reason is that I can’t imagine IH giving up their hope and investments for the Rossi’s E-Cat without good reasons. As I said it is my feeling today and maybe,and hope, I’m wrong but wait and see…

      • Andrew

        Any COP>1 is a successful test

        • Alain Samoun

          No Andrew, a COP less than 3 would be meaning that you produce less energy that you use: Electricity energy needs 3 times more heat energy.
          1MW electric = 3MW thermic
          Beside for an industrial application,to demonstrate the use of LENR you would need probably at least a COP >=6

          • True of course for any commercial products based on LENR. However, any proveable and reproducible COP over unity would be ‘impossible’ according to established physics and would be enough to trigger widespread research that would elucidate the mechanism and inevitably lead to far higher outputs.

          • Alain Samoun

            I’m talking industrial application here,not proof of LENR/CF that has been already demonstrated many times with no result of “widespread research”

      • clovis ray

        Hi, Alain.
        You said,, I can’t imagine IH giving up their hope and investments for the Rossi’s E-Cat without good reasons.
        Could it be that cherokee, became over valued, and needed to incorporate because of hell know what, and could not advance that 86 mill, to be delivered, to I/H and end the deal with leo corp for their I/P., sorry just the way i see it now, and probably upgrades coming soon.

        • Alain Samoun

          Hi Clovis
          Well, all scenarios are possible at this point,hoping that the end of the story will be like the one of a Disney movie…They marry and had a lot of little cats 😉

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        I am sorry there is just too much evidence pointing to the success of the year long test, at any rate I asked the customer to tell us either way positive or negative. Or, IH tell us why they think the test was not a success. Or, IH release the report.

        • bachcole

          You asked them. Heck, I don’t even know who they are. How did you ask them and what did they say? Upon identifying them and their answer depends the resolution of all of our cognitive dissonance.

  • Brokeeper

    So now is SGS, the world’s leading inspection, verification, testing and certification company in trouble for ceritifing the industrial E-Cat? I think they should team up with Rossi.

  • Brokeeper

    So is now SGS, the world’s leading inspection, verification, testing and certification company’s integrity in trouble for ceritifing the industrial E-Cat? I think they should team up with Rossi.

  • DrD

    I wouldn’t blame AR if he abandonned his plans and set up mass production abroad. Anywhere that wants an energy monopoly. I’m being cynical about the monopoly but it could certainly come to that.

  • DrD

    I wouldn’t blame AR if he abandonned his plans and set up mass production abroad. Anywhere that wants an energy monopoly. I’m being cynical about the monopoly but it could certainly come to that.

  • Does It matter if Mr Rossi and the E-Cat have to be checked out for ionising radiation.
    Obviously Mr Rossi is radiating Infra-red, also the E-cat.
    I do hope that they chase him down and check him out in full public gaze.
    I have followed “Cold-Fusion” since 1989.
    I was disappointed then that the results proved nebulas.
    So I welcome more ionising radiation be shed on the phenomena.
    I do hope that the “others” will continue their endeavour’s in the search for the grail.
    Enough, enough I cry lets BE having you Mr Rossi, you need to start dancing under the follow spot.

    • DrD

      You didn’t know? He has already been through this and passed.

      • What was his pass mark?

    • Steve Savage

      twobob … Back again, what a treat !

      • I never go away.
        Like a bad dose of the clap.

        • Karl Venter

          So how do we get to see the erv report
          Rossi lawyer does not want to release it – too much risk of groups( Like Us) finding fault with it and IH would then use it against Rossi.
          So IH should release the report in their rebuttle / response to the lawsuit – cant say the report is bull if you dont produce it?
          But this may not be good for Rossi so better that they(Rossi) release first and prepare for the possible negative impact it could have on their case.
          We can only speculate and wait

          • Omega Z

            The last word from Rossi was it will be published after it is presented in court proceedings. We’ll have to wait and see if that’s in entirety or a truncated form

          • Michael W Wolf

            Yes, there are good honest companies and there are those that the SEC rules against because they are immoral and operate outside the rules of fair play. Like IH.

    • HS61AF91

      I think nebuals do not need proof, as in is an interstellar cloud of dust, hydrogen, helium and other ionized gases. Sort of reminds men of the inner e-Cat workings.

      • There you go!
        You sawed straight through the particles.

    • kdk

      You might be surprised how many disgruntled nuclear physicists are out there and willing to put the effort into publicly stating the E-Cat is safe, if they believe that it is.

  • Does It matter if Mr Rossi and the E-Cat have to be checked out for ionising radiation.
    Obviously Mr Rossi is radiating Infra-red, also the E-cat.
    I do hope that they chase him down and check him out in full public gaze.
    I have followed “Cold-Fusion” since 1989.
    I was disappointed then that the results proved nebulae.
    So I welcome more ionising radiation be shed on the phenomena.
    I do hope that the “others” will continue their endeavour’s in the search for the grail.
    Enough, enough I cry lets BE having you Mr Rossi, you need to start dancing under the follow spot.

    • DrD

      You didn’t know? He has already been through this and passed.

      • What was his pass mark?

    • Steve Savage

      twobob … Back again, what a treat !

    • HS61AF91

      I think nebuals do not need proof, as in is an interstellar cloud of dust, hydrogen, helium and other ionized gases. Sort of reminds men of the inner e-Cat workings.

      • There you go!
        You sawed straight through the particles.
        Or was it just cloudy pee.

    • kdk

      You might be surprised how many disgruntled nuclear physicists are out there and willing to put the effort into publicly stating the E-Cat is safe, if they believe that it is.

  • HS61AF91

    This pissy article in ‘New Energy Times’ on 6 April, with a title “Convicted Fraudster Rossi Accuses Licensee Industrial Heat of Fraud” really got my goat! I did post a letter to its editor, as follows:

    “Editor

    That real clever dude, the Doctore, that you describe as a CONVICTED FRAUDSTER!!! just sold three 1MV devices at a million per. So please tell me how anybody, let alone three times over, would buy for one million dollars a 1MV e-Cat from a CONVICTED FRAUDSTER!!!? I am interested in your logic that flies in the face of purchased fact, You most definitely disparage in every possible way this over unity energy production. When 1 unit of energy goes in, then at least 6 of same energy units come out, that is a pretty good selling point. Will you perhaps tone down you divisive rhetoric when, as the Wright Bros. flying fact did, when it flew in the face of scientific incredulity. Appreciate any response, even negative!”

    That such negative vehemence exists is beyond me.

    • wpj

      But thats how he is. We have learned to live with it.

      • HS61AF91

        Thank you.

    • Jerry Soloman

      clearly HS61AF91 is part of the smear campaign, and gets a half a page on eatworld.

      • HS61AF91

        Right on, smear the skeptics and agitators, those who disparage the truth of e-Cat energy and the future it will bring, such as the authors of the article I objected to above. In addition, half a page on eatworld (sic) is better by far then a void of silence.

      • wpj

        How is he smearing when he questions the snake Krivit? Most of us don’t and just accept it. How many of us have even bothered to respond?

    • Andrew

      He has been mad at Rossi ever since Rossi kicked him out of a demo. Your words are falling on deaf ears when talking to Krivit about anything positive Rossi.

      • psi2u2

        Why did Rossi kick him out?

        Rossi didn’t kick out Mats Lewan — or, to my knowledge, anyone else.

        • clovis ray

          boy so many thing with up, i just went blank for a moment, lol

        • US_Citizen71

          The rumor I remember was Rossi thought he was attempting to take some of the fuel powder.

        • Freethinker

          He was really nasty when interviewing them at the site. You should be able to find a video on youtube. In Edit: The links posted does not indicate so much nastiness, apart from Levi’s face expression indication that he is a bit weary as time goes and by the questions asked. There are far more worse videos.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9Vyjlj8PLM

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uviXoafHWrU

          • psi2u2

            So he was nasty not just to Rossi but also to Levi? Very nasty. How impressive.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Wow that was painful watching Levi try to explain the 10 Watts in that video lol.

    • attaboy

      Agree totally HS61AF91.

  • Jerry Soloman

    The Title of this clearly intended to cater to Rossi enemies, if you just got ripped for 89 Million you would not be happy.

  • LukeK1

    I’m sorry to say this but this is getting ridiculous and someone should certainly take the keyboard away from Rossi. This looks as bad as it was 5 years ago when barely anyone had any trust in e-cat and LENR. All hope is with MFMP, Rossi is finished for now.

  • HS61AF91

    Ask the US Navy! Do not however, expect a response!

  • Billy Jackson

    I do not understand the mindset that allows people to claim one set of information while ignoring or decrying falsely any information that conflicts their bias. For people who claim to be intelligent i see a severe lack of evidence to back that claim so far.

  • Billy Jackson

    I do not understand the mindset that allows people to claim one set of information while ignoring or decrying falsely any information that conflicts their bias. For people who claim to be intelligent i see a severe lack of evidence to back that claim so far.

    • Bob

      Because this has become similar to a religious cult. People are on the extreme of both sides. The “patho-skeptics” simply cannot accept any positive information that gives credence to Rossi, no matter where it comes from. Or the reverse, the super fans here state nothing but Rossi is an all knowing Saint who the entire world is against (except for them of course, they are enlightened).
      .
      It really is a study of the mind. Some here who support everything Rossi says, jump to greatly demean BLP, Steorn and anyone else. It is because BLP and Steorn might be a :threat to one up Rossi, I guess. They certainly have zero more solid proof about Rossi than BLP or Steorn.
      .
      Repeatedly, Lugano, SGS, safety certification and ERV report are brought up as absolute fact of proof. Even though these have been repeatedly shown not to be the case, some refuse to hear it. Just like many religions, they believe what they want to believe. They tout that Lugano is proof! When Bob Greenyer states Lugano is invalid, they simply shut their ears or start dissing Bob..
      .
      The “pathos” are the same only from the other angle. It is religion, it is politics. It is Liberal vs. Conservative. Each sees the other side as absolute evil and there is no middle ground.
      .
      It is very interesting how a Rossi says is absolute truth to some while a Tom Darden comment is blasphemy and worthy of a lynching. Even though Tom Darden has a very long, exemplary reputation. It does not matter… he blasphemed Rossi and is therefore evil..
      .
      Likewise , Rossi was once wrongly convicted and eventually cleared. However, some still call him a felon and convicted fraudster.
      .
      There is no real difference between the two. They want to believe something so badly, that facts do not matter.
      Any event will be distorted to support their cause, no matter what. Just like Liberal vs. Conservative. Global Warming believer vs CO2 is good. Young Earth vs. Old Earth. Communist vs Capitalist. Catholic vs Protestant (at east in the dark ages) and Islam Extremist vs all infidels.
      .
      Why cannot we just be unbiased and look at the REAL and PROVEN facts?

      • There is some truth in what you say, although your stereotype of ‘super fan’ contributors here as fundamentalist Rossi believers is (with one or two exceptions) quite difficult to reconcile with the majority of comments on this blog. If anything I would say that some reservation about Rossi’s claims is becoming the norm, and the general tone is often one of hope rather than expectation.

      • LarryJ

        unfortunately the only real proven fact that can ever prove the ecat is products in the market so we have to work with what we have or go back to bowling for entertainment. I would classify myself as a believer and I justify my belief based on my own judgement of the validity of tests performed, reports produced and my perceived character of the players. The only other alternative is to demand proof which will never exist until we have products and find another hobby and what fun is that compared to speculating on a world changing technology.

  • QCJYM

    Well, that won’t hold for long. For those who remember Defkalion, one of the right (and maybe only) thing they did when in Canada was to meet with the Candian Nuclear Consil to convince them that LENR was safe. They AGREED! No point in doing a radiation test.

    • Skip

      Can you please provide a reference …

      Thanx

      • QCJYM

        Wish I could. I met with John Hadjicristos here in Québec City a few days after he had that meeting with the consil in Ottawa. Thats when he told me about it.

    • roseland67

      The CNC simply did not believe LENR
      They would have tested it before it ever got
      Released, and they had a pretty good idea that would never happen

  • Jerry Soloman

    currently the books are being written on the greatest swindle of the 21st century – of how Industrial Heat and Brillouin Energy conned Andreas Rossi out of his ecat technology. it is being written now and you are witnessing it. Stay Tuned its not over..

    • MorganMck

      Jerry, it’s the 21st Century. How time flies.

    • Nelson Vogel

      Believe this would happen if Rossi had not filed a lawsuit. It’s time for both parts show the ecat technology for public, as more important than all is the future of humanity played in this IP game.

      • LarryJ

        They have already shown it to the public. Many times but nobody will ever believe it. Only products will convince the public.

        • Nelson Vogel

          Yes, selling products is the best answer, but this time test procedures, open doors for public, may be different as the judge may ask technical assistance from NASA engineers and other top ones, making impossible any tricks if theye is. This lawsuit was the best thing that happened, and is the most important one at courts of the worlds. When will be the demonstration ?

          • LarryJ

            The problem with including the court case as a factor in proving the ecat is the slow pace at which the courts move. I would be very surprised if we even see the jury selected this year. By the time anything comes out of the court case it will probably be moot. As a result I think the court case will be an irrelevant sideshow.

          • bachcole

            Exactly.

          • Nelson Vogel

            A moot demonstration will mean IH not paying 89 bucks for AR. Also, we will lost the opportunity to know the truth about ecat. Hope the judge understand that this is not a case like the others, to delay for years, but a technology to save the planet and humankind from extinction while it’s possible.

          • LarryJ

            This court case will run on for years. You might get the demo in you seek in 2020 but whenever it is it will be moot by then.

    • roseland67

      And the sequel,

      How an obscure Italian scientist managed to swindle many millions of $$$ from evil venture capitalists.
      AR may come out of his looking like Robin Hood.

      • Except, the “evil venture capitalists” have filed similar patents to AR; how does that work?

  • HS61AF91

    Right on, smear the skeptics and agitators, those who disparage the truth of e-Cat energy and the future it will bring, such as the authors of the article I objected to above. In addition, half a page on eatworld (sic) is better by far then a void of silence.

  • wpj

    How is he smearing when he questions the snake Krivit? Most of us don’t and just accept it. How many of us have even bothered to respond?

  • MorganMck

    With the eCat-X (quark) this should be so easy. Just have it run in SSM significantly longer than any known battery for its mass could sustain (and leave it running); capture and record the electrical output in time-series data with calibrated equipment. Avoid the heat/calorimitry issues that are always the source of endless debate and conjecture at all costs. The fact that Rossi won’t (or can’t) do this is most troubling.

    I want to believe.

    • clovis ray

      Morgan,
      the e-cat has been demoed so many times now what is it 6 times
      Each time it’s even better than the last, Dr.R says NO more dimo’s,
      they are all in now to put products through the door, they have many customers waiting,

      • MorganMck

        You miss my point. All demos to date have measured COP via electrical input and heat output. Aside from the conversion loss, there have been never-ending debates on the calorimitry used, thermo-couple placement, etc., etc., etc. Now with electrical output of the quark eCatX the process can be greatly simplified and remove most of the issues of rational folks. Just do it.

        • clovis ray

          yep, the best thing we can do is set back, and enjoy the show, in my opinion, the best one on the air, i know, there seems to be storm clouds on the horizon, but, here in okie, we say, just keep an eye on it, and continue to work, just a few more hours. go Dr.R go and just keep an eye out, smile.

  • Job001

    Revealing it is; China invested $200,000,000 with IH to USE LENR while our obsolete
    FF and/or utility monopolists seem to have invested even more $x,xxx,000,000? to OBSTRUCT LENR.

    Hmmmmm? What unintended consequences could happen?

    China, first to light up a LENR Terawatt, first to lowest business/society energy cost, first to outcompete the monopolists oligopoly countries.
    IP becomes near worthless as the necessity of AGW correction becomes a critical priority, Society grants and can confiscate anything declared, even LENR “Eminent Domain”, Ok some compensation will likely happen. Nothing is more “Eminent Domain” than saving the planet or especially everyones sorry arse, and if LENR ends up in that category………..could easily happen, expect B&M(Bitching and moaning).

    Even if one was foolish enough to believe the FF paid AGW denial shills, which were apparently paid by dark money sites with funds from Exxon, Peabody, Koch, and/or others. We are now working on a record 12 consecutive “hottest Months since recording started 125 years ago”. Statistics that good don’t lie but the FF lawyers and shills do. Proof of Lawyer and shill lies; “When their lips are moving or their fingers are typing”.

    • Edac

      Who is FF and who is AGW? Please explain.

      • Guru Khalsa

        fossil fuels
        anthropogenic global warming (caused by humans)

    • dave

      Although I desire as much as anyone the full introduction of LENR, I have to keep my reasons on a valid scientific plane. My desire is based on the good to the human family and the environment that will come from cheap abundant energy. The hype of dangerous AGW is supported by NO empirical evidence. The models that prognosticate doom are fatally flawed and have been getting further from the data for 2 decades. Look for global cooling after November and a cooling trend for the next 20-40 years. Cold folks will need the E-Cat even more especially if we cut CO2 enough to hamper the great greening it has caused so far as we put some of it back into the atmosphere where it came from.

      • Roland

        Here’s a dead simple graphic representation of atmospheric temperature data going back to the 1890s:

        http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/hottest-year-on-record/

        If you, and like minded individuals, fail to understand the implications of this trend and it persists because of your collective obduracy there will be an extraordinary price paid by future generations, starting with the already disadvantaged, and an enormous list of at risk species.

        Your ignorance of how CO2 persists in the atmosphere and oceans and propagates environmental effects is nothing short of stunning.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Perhaps the 1883 eruption of Krakatoa cooled the planet.

          • Roland

            If you have watched the graphic unfold the effects of the Krakatoa event are obvious; vulcanists are in general accord that the climatological impact of even Krakatoa scale events are limited to a few years and this, quite obviously, is borne out by the data display.

          • One thing we have NOT had is an independent review of the data and an in-public explanation of the continued adjustments of past raw thermometer data *downward*. A one-time adjustment due to site move or new equipment is understandable, but, year after year adjustment of data is jusr ripe for abuse and cheating.

          • AdrianAshfield

            Roland, look at the latest satellite temperatures shown here
            http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

            Then look at Fig 2b (p7) from Prof Akasofu’s paper here.
            http://people.iarc.uaf.edu/~sakasofu/pdf/two_natural_components_recent_climate_change.pdf

          • Roland

            Abstract: A recent article which has set forth new interpretations of Earth’s recent climate history has included some questions of authentic scientific inquiry, particularly related to the impact of ocean oscillations on atmospheric temperatures. In fact, this very issue is currently being investigated by multiple research groups. On the other hand, the claim that a two-century linear temperature increase is a recovery from a recent cool period is not supported by the data. Furthermore, this thermal recovery hypothesis is not connected to any physical phenomenon; rather it is a result of a simplistic and incorrect curve-fitting operation. Other errors in the article are: the claim that the heating of the Earth has halted, misunderstanding of the relationship between carbon dioxide concentration and the resultant radiative forcing, and a failure to account for forcings other than carbon dioxide (such as other greenhouse gases, atmospheric aerosols, land use changes, etc.). Each of these errors brings serious question to the conclusions drawn in the referenced article. The simultaneous occurrence of all of these errors in a single study guarantees that its conclusions cannot be supported and, in fact, are demonstrably incorrect.

            A link to the complete paper can be found at:

            http://www.mdpi.com/2225-1154/1/2/76

            Granting, of course, that you’re actually interested in learning what the rest of the climate science community makes of Akasofu’s theory.

          • orsobubu

            Roland, I don’t know if the CO2 issue is overextimated or not (I think no, but hope yes) but do you think that a revolution in electric energy production like LENR could fix the economic feasibility factor in the carbon air-suckung technology?

            https://www.technologyreview.com/s/531346/can-sucking-co2-out-of-the-atmosphere-really-work/

            Today carbon capture is experimented ie by MIT initiative in gas extraction fields, but, if extended to general air sucking, do you think that the CO2 problem could be definitely resized?

            https://www.technologyreview.com/s/516166/what-carbon-capture-cant-do/

          • AdrianAshfield

            The typical response from those who ignore the falsification of the IPCC projections is that Akasofu has not given a physical explanation. He didn’t do so because, as he says, there is not proof of the cause. The fact remains it happened if you believe the satellite measurements.. The manual alteration of the land station readings (homogenization) is about equal to the claimed rise in temperature by the proponents of AGW.
            .
            The sea level rise has remained remarkably constant (not accelerating) ever since the end of the Little Ice Age, despite the glaring headlines that we will soon all be under water.

            What precisely is wrong with Fig 2b? I can show you lots of papers to back it up. The IPCC has got the climate sensitivity wrong, probably through not understand the effects of cloud cover, and it looks like the effect of CO2 is about half what the IPCC claims. To have that large an error uncorrected for so long is pathetic. As a result I am not inclined to believe anything they say.

            Although the connection to solar influence is not proven, the Maunder Minimum is factual and the sun looks like it is going into a similar state. It will be interesting to see if the Russian scientists are correct forecasting that the world will start to cool in the 2030s.

          • AdrianAshfield

            Roland, ps. See also
            Do the Adjustments to Land Surface Air Temperature Data Increase the Global Warming Rate?
            https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/04/16/do-the-adjustments-to-land-surface-air-temperature-data-
            increase-the-global-warming-rate/

            https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/04/16/march-2016-global-surface-landocean-and-lower-troposphere-temperature-anomaly-update/.

            Then explain what the IPCC forecast has not been falsified.

        • Yet, ice core records show CO2 ALL over the map in terms of concentrations. One also needs to answer the question, how did we come out of the last ice age? SUVs did not exist and there was no oil economy.

          Simply whipping out a temp and CO2 chart leaves a lot of Qs unanswered …

        • Private Citizen
          • Roland

            You mean as more is learned and the data sets are correspondingly modified the underlying trends that have been obvious to the informed continue to be supported by the data, how bizarre…

            P.S. Did you actually go to the link and watch the graphic? The beauty of this representation of the data is that it doesn’t require literacy, a grounding in basic science, math, or critical thinking skills.

          • And yet again, the expected/predicted AGW temp increases as modeled by both Jamrs Hansen and the IPCC have not been seen.

            In cases like this, usually the hypothesis or theory is changed in light of new empirical data gathered with time and experience, but not so with AGW and/or its steadfast adherents …

        • dave

          Roland
          Bloomberg’s graph is only for 125 years. That’s barely than two Pacific cycles and less than 10% of a Milankovich cycle. It was warmer than now 1000 years ago,and 2000 years ago and 3000 years ago. If you look at temps from ice cores it has been a cooling trend for 8000 years since the Holocene maximum. Google JAMAL MUNSHI and read his three latest papers-only a few pages each, to see why I have doubts about CO2 leading us to ruin. Check out CO2 Coalition, or the lectures by Professor Murray Salby or Professor Richard Lindzen. There is ample proof of the poor science used to push the CO2 political agenda.

          • kdk

            Assuming global warming isn’t caused by our huge increase in CO2 production, the C02 and other aerial pollutants are bad for our health, and the oceans where humanity gets lots of its food, and millions die every year from air pollution.

          • bachcole

            You are only scratching the surface, particularly if we want to include deliberate pollution: like food additives and preservatives, etc. etc. etc.

          • dave

            Co2 is not a pollutant. It is a colorless, odorless trace gas, that makes up about .04% of of our atmosphere and is necessary for all life on earth. At .015% no plants will grow and the food chain is shorted out. Increasing its concentration helps all plants grow and helps them use less water as they grow. If we have pollution problems we should address the pollutants as we have in the past. U.S. air is cleaner than it was in the 70s and is getting cleaner all the time. Poor countries that use wood or animal dung have real pollution problems as do developing countries like China that don’t mandate scrubbers and other pollution control on their power generation facilities.

          • kdk

            I guess we should go for broke then.

          • bachcole

            We breathe because of the build-up of CO2 in our tissues. Yogi’s reach higher states of consciousness by slowing their breathing, which means that the gentle push of CO2 to breathe induces a peaceful mind. People who are in the midst of a panic attack breathe into and out of a bag so as to increase their CO2 levels, which causes the panic attack to subside. (Of course, it is likely in most cases that they would never had had the panic attack in the first place if they had regularly eaten enough essential fatty acids.)

          • gdaigle

            Not to draw too fine a point, but…
            From the American Heritage Science Dictionary:

            pollutant – A substance or condition that contaminates air, water, or soil. Pollutants can be artificial substances, such as pesticides and PCBs, or naturally occurring substances, such as oil or carbon dioxide, that occur in harmful concentrations in a given environment. Heat transmitted to natural waterways through warm-water discharge from power plants and uncontained radioactivity from nuclear wastes are also considered pollutants.

          • dave

            So far there is no good evidence that Co2 occurs in harmful concentration or that human released Co2 controls the atmospheric concentration (see Munshi’s paper). The space station allows 8000 parts per million in their atmosphere without adverse effects.

          • “the C02 and other aerial pollutants”

            A trace gas, a ‘critical’ trace used by plants and in biological processes in almost all lifeforms on this planet is a pollutant?

            This should be news to a lot of ppl …

          • Roland

            Atmospheric CO2 content has vacillated between 150ppm, ice ages, and 280ppm, lush warm periods, over the last 600,000 years by the analysis of Antarctic ice core samples. Within that timeframe every significant geological and climatological event that bears on the issue before us has left analyzable fingerprints in the form of dust, unusual isotopes, gas balances, spores, other lifeforms, and a host of other indicators from which existing conditions at points within the timeframe can be inferred with reasonable accuracy.

            During this timeframe there is no evidence that the current rate of change in gas balances and average temperatures we are seeing in the data from the last hundred years has occurred, in fact nothing comes remotely close to the current rate of change in all those years.

            There’s a concept whose grasp is essential to this debate, water is 5 times better than any other known substance at storing heat; by which I mean that it requires 5 times the energy to raise a specific weight of water 1 degree in temperature as the next most able storage medium.

            The heat isn’t being stored in the atmosphere, excepting in water vapour, it is being stored in liquid water. CO2 also dissolves in water; in sufficient concentrations the acidity of oceans and lakes are effected in ways that have direct bearing on all the life forms that use calcium to build protective shells.

            The combination of elevated ocean temperatures and acidity is having visible effects that are, to say the least, unprecedented. The oldest continuously living organism on the planet is a coral reef off of Bermuda, it is over 360,000 years old. It’s dying. It’s temperature sensitive; the waters around it are to warm. It’s had no time to adapt to the changes that doom it. It’s one of many all round the world in similar straights.

            One of the prime movers, Exxon, in manufacturing doubt, with the able assistance of APCO, about humanities’ role in the rate of change in average temperatures recanted years ago.

            A number of other corporations, such as the bankrupt Peabody Coal Company and the ever popular Koch Industries (through a truly impressive constellation of front organizations) are carrying on the good fight to stave off the consequences of operating the very dirtiest carbon businesses in America (they win the top spots decade after decade) with the able assistance of APCO’s stable of ‘experts’ (i.e. people who have no training in the relevant fields of study but will pretend to know all for chump change; my personal favourite is a jolly looking sociologist who was an ‘expert’ on the non-existent effects of smoking tobacco and will ardently testify that it’s just weather and ‘there’s nothing to worry about’. His ‘professional’ opinions cost a measly $60,000 a year in ‘grant’ money. He specializes in the sneering putdown; it’s like watching Santa Claus telling children why they’ll never be loved by anyone, ever, cause they’re just so, so stupid for even thinking of disagreeing with him. A stunningly effective, very convincing, utterly sociopathic liar).

            American is distinguished by, among many more edifying traits, harbouring by far the largest percentage of the populace, among first world nations, to deny what both their own senses and science make abundantly clear. We have already committed to a course of action, changing the gas balances in the atmosphere, that can’t be retreated from in any meaningful time frame and we’re aggravating the scale of the problem daily while guessing about where the point of no return for the current ecology of the planet is.

            This isn’t like denying that your three pack a day habit is affecting your health, I smoked two packs a day for way to long, or aggravating your kid’s asthma. We’re all free to commit slow suicide in any number of ways; when we’re ready to take the whole world down with us the ethical balance shifts in favour of caution about what’s inadequately understood and potentially threatening on a vast scale.

            Careless people undergo horrendous life altering events without ever noticing they’re in trouble till it’s to late to respond, do we really want to find out if a species can do this too?

            I don’t.

          • dave

            I appreciate your angst but must disagree as I have been looking into this discussion for several years and have seen good scientists refute the alarmist point of view about any eminent dangerous effects of CO2 from our activities. Here are a couple of graphs that display the non-correlation of temp and CO2 and the fact that our temps are not unprecedented. http://www.biocab.org/Geological_Timescale.jpg ,http://www.climate4you.com/images/GISP2%20TemperatureSince10700%20BP%20with%20CO2%20from%20EPICA%20DomeC.gif Munshi’s papers show there is no good correlation of emissions and CO2 in the atmosphere. If you want to look into this side of the discussion start with Burt Rutan’s review of the data as well as “The Right Climate Stuff” a group of retired NASA scientists with impeccable credentials and no ax to grind.
            That said, I still think that the emergence of new energy sources is the most important event of my waning lifetime for the future of humanity and freedom so I truly hope Rossi is the man I have envisioned and not the scam artist some are declaring him to be. I wait with much anticipation for each new tidbit of news.

          • bachcole

            Nice, dave. Those graphs freed me from the AGW hysteria prison.

            Remember that Rossi may be difficult to get along with, he may even be losing his marbles, but there is still Levi 2013 and Lugano 2014, two very difficult to dispute facts. The LENR+ Juggernaut is on its way, whether Rossi is driving it or not.

          • dave

            I’m sorry my reply got lost so I will try again.
            I am convinced by good science and ample study that the CO2 apocalypse is over stated. If you want to check out a small portion of the resources on this statement look at Bob Carter’s books and presentations. If you are numbers guy check out Burt Rutan’s comments or The Right Climate Stuff (a group of retired NASA scientists).
            That said, I believe the emergence of new energy tech is the most important development in my waning lifetime. I see it as protecting people, the environment, and human freedom. I truly hope Rossi is the man I have envisioned and not the scam artist some think.

        • psi2u2

          Here’s a whole website of reading for you to consider the “other side”: https://wattsupwiththat.com/

          In any case, however, whatever one’s belief about AGW, Rossi is not responsible for it. He may have part of the solution, but jumping up and down and blaming him for not having the solution on someone else’s schedule is pointless and off topic.

      • Job001

        Well, dave, you’ve bought the BS of lawyers on retainers, i.e. half of which is paid for by you and I as taxpayers. Truth is, next to nothing is absolutely provable. The half truth nonsense is that there is NO empirical evidence. On the other hand, climate scientists overwhelmingly, in excess of 93% and increasing, agree that AGW is a settled fact, just not as deniers simplify it into a silly denial model only about temperature and absolute proof.

        For instance, climate science uses many complicated models, statistical correlation, it is not just about temperature, but chemistry, heat storage, heat absorption and reflection, energy circulation and not about something impossible like absolute proof or temperature change only.

        Absolute proof was something the tobacco lawyers righteously demanded also, a similar “Red herring” argument, since science is not about absolute proof at all, and AGW is not about warming only nor absolute proof either but serious unbiased science rather than big money and defending continued excess FF waste promoted by sociopathic greed.

        • psi2u2

          I used to agree with you. Before I read up.

        • Omega Z

          “unbiased science”
          No such beast exists.

          • Job001

            Nor does any utopia or pure ideal. However, we can try, and we need not give in to crime or corruption just because it’s the easy common way. When we try we call it “civilization” when we give in most call it “Hell”.

        • Job, maybe you can explain why the rising temperature projections by both James Hansen and the IPCC have failed to materialize?

          Could it be that their hypothesis is simply wrong? It works that way in most of the sciences after empirical data does not ‘prove out’ a proposed hypothesis.

          • Job001

            Temperature lags heat flux and enthalpy. Consequently, ice melts, volatiles evaporate, chemistry changes, oceans depths warm and oceans rise, and these things happen before temperature rise.

            Google warming with phase change to see charts where temperature rise halts during phase change for melting or boiling or other phase changes. This is known science by scientists and even thoughtful ice tea drinkers.

          • Job – total hogwash and you know it.

            The majority of the earth that would have warmed is not frozen therefore NO PHASE CHANGE. Temperature in that case is a first order integral equation with a linear relationship with time.

            BTW, nice try at a distraction, dodging the issue of failed temperature rise predictions by both Hansen (formerly of NASA/GISS) and the IPCC (the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change). Are Hansen and the IPCC both idiots ignorant of ‘phase change’ too? Remember, these are the very acolytes of AGW now …

            In most “sciences” a hypothesis that failed that bad would be re-worked, revised, but not so with AGW and its steadfast, almost blind adherents.

            Why is that?

          • Job001

            Mind all made up, so, Who’s paying you?

          • Hammm. Here come the ad homs and attacks on character since it appears you won’t or can’t address the issues raised.

            Whose mind is made up again? I raise legitimate issues and you brush them aside …

            Again, I ask, can you explain why the rising temperature projections by both James Hansen and the IPCC have failed to materialize? Are you ‘programmed’ for any response beyond what you have given already?

    • attaboy

      What’s FF, IP, and AGW????????

    • John

      Wait until the Chinese and Russian have LENR powered submarines then it will be a huge wake up call – late

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        The Chinese and Russian already have nuclear submarines. More interesting when LENR submarines appear in Iran and North Korea.

    • Occams razor

      Where does that 200m figure come from? The total joint funding for the chinese technology park is listed as 15 billion yuan. That is 2315529750.00 US Dollar isn’t that 2.3bn USD? Not 200m? Look the thread up..

      Next question. The average cost of a corporate hack on the black market seems to be 500usd at the moment. So maybe it would cost a little bit more. But can any of you lot seriously believe china hasn’t p0wned rossie since that first contact by darden. And wouldn’t any prudent interested parties pay a few thousand to hack all this?

      I’d say the reality of the situation is China is using this to collapse the western banking system. It is already on the brink since the GFC debt was never dealt with. It makes me wonder wether or not it it time to ask anonymous for a bit of public interest hacking.

      Most of the problem is this stuff is not accessible. It is in blogs like this. If we stood up a wiki with timeline and put every data point on it. A journalist could then see the story. Right now all they can see is this lot arguing. There’s 3 options for making a difference. It doesn’t seem hard to me. It is not like there is a lack of data in this story. We are sitting on mountains of it. Perhaps something constructive should be done with it?

  • dave

    Although I desire as much as anyone the full introduction of LENR, I have to keep my reasons on a valid scientific plane. My desire is based on the good to the human family and the environment that will come from cheap abundant energy. The hype of dangerous AGW is supported by NO empirical evidence. The models that prognosticate doom are fatally flawed and have been getting further from the data for 2 decades. Look for global cooling after November and a cooling trend for the next 20-40 years. Cold folks will need the E-Cat even more especially if we cut CO2 enough to hamper the great greening it has caused so far as we put some of it back into the atmosphere where it came from.

    • Roland

      Here’s a dead simple graphic representation of atmospheric temperature data going back to the 1890s:

      http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/hottest-year-on-record/

      If you, and like minded individuals, fail to understand the implications of this trend and it persists because of your collective obduracy there will be an extraordinary price paid by future generations, starting with the already disadvantaged, and an enormous list of at risk species.

      Your ignorance of how CO2 persists in the atmosphere and oceans and propagates environmental effects is nothing short of stunning.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Perhaps the 1883 eruption of Krakatoa cooled the planet.

        • Roland

          If you have watched the graphic unfold the effects of the Krakatoa event are obvious; vulcanists are in general accord that the climatological impact of even Krakatoa scale events are limited to a few years and this, quite obviously, is borne out by the data display.

          • AdrianAshfield

            Roland, look at the latest satellite temperatures shown here
            http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

            Then look at Fig 2b (p7) from Prof Akasofu’s paper here.
            http://people.iarc.uaf.edu/~sakasofu/pdf/two_natural_components_recent_climate_change.pdf

          • Roland

            Abstract: A recent article which has set forth new interpretations of Earth’s recent climate history has included some questions of authentic scientific inquiry, particularly related to the impact of ocean oscillations on atmospheric temperatures. In fact, this very issue is currently being investigated by multiple research groups. On the other hand, the claim that a two-century linear temperature increase is a recovery from a recent cool period is not supported by the data. Furthermore, this thermal recovery hypothesis is not connected to any physical phenomenon; rather it is a result of a simplistic and incorrect curve-fitting operation. Other errors in the article are: the claim that the heating of the Earth has halted, misunderstanding of the relationship between carbon dioxide concentration and the resultant radiative forcing, and a failure to account for forcings other than carbon dioxide (such as other greenhouse gases, atmospheric aerosols, land use changes, etc.). Each of these errors brings serious question to the conclusions drawn in the referenced article. The simultaneous occurrence of all of these errors in a single study guarantees that its conclusions cannot be supported and, in fact, are demonstrably incorrect.

            A link to the complete paper can be found at:

            http://www.mdpi.com/2225-1154/1/2/76

            Granting, of course, that you’re actually interested in learning what the rest of the climate science community makes of Akasofu’s theory.

          • georgehants

            Inverse
            The often-ostracised research is getting a resurgence of attention
            Kastalia Medrano
            April 15, 201
            old fusion has historically received more attention from screenwriters
            than journalists. Recently, though, the media has started getting into
            the game. There are the breathless (for Scandinavia anyway) stories about the new research coming out of Norway. There is the pretty epic thinkpiece in Aeon. There is the reaction to that thinkpiece in Popular Mechanics.
            And there is just a ton of easily dismissed nonsense out of India. The
            stories all make internal sense, but the broader narrative is hard to
            follow. What do we talk about when we talk about cold fusion?
            https://www.inverse.com/article/14355-cold-fusion-is-news-again-but-the-search-for-the-energy-holy-grail-ain-t-over

          • AdrianAshfield

            The typical response from those who ignore the falsification of the IPCC projections is that Akasofu has not given a physical explanation. He didn’t do so because, as he says, there is not proof of the cause. The fact remains it happened if you believe the satellite measurements.. The manual alteration of the land station readings (homogenization) is about equal to the claimed rise in temperature by the proponents of AGW.
            .
            The sea level rise has remained remarkably constant (not accelerating) ever since the end of the Little Ice Age, despite the glaring headlines that we will soon all be under water.

            What precisely is wrong with Fig 2b? I can show you lots of papers to back it up. The IPCC has got the climate sensitivity wrong, probably through not understand the effects of cloud cover, and it looks like the effect of CO2 is about half what the IPCC claims. To have that large an error uncorrected for so long is pathetic. As a result I am not inclined to believe anything they say.

            Although the connection to solar influence is not proven, the Maunder Minimum is factual and the sun looks like it is going into a similar state. It will be interesting to see if the Russian scientists are correct forecasting that the world will start to cool in the 2030s.

          • AdrianAshfield

            Roland, ps. See also
            Do the Adjustments to Land Surface Air Temperature Data Increase the Global Warming Rate?
            https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/04/16/do-the-adjustments-to-land-surface-air-temperature-data-
            increase-the-global-warming-rate/

            https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/04/16/march-2016-global-surface-landocean-and-lower-troposphere-temperature-anomaly-update/.

            Then explain what the IPCC forecast has not been falsified.

      • Private Citizen
        • Roland

          You mean as more is learned and the data sets are correspondingly modified the underlying trends that have been obvious to the informed continue to be supported by the data, how bizarre…

          P.S. Did you actually go to the link and watch the graphic? The beauty of this representation of the data is that it doesn’t require literacy, a grounding in basic science, math, or critical thinking skills.

        • Zack Iszard

          The phrase “You can’t write this stuff” comes to mind.

          Frankly, I have to come right out and say that y opinion of Rossi has taken a nose-dive after he pressed charges on his benefactors for not giving him even more money. I woke from a dream, it feels, as I realize that without the vetting of IH, all we really have are Rossi’s own words and a sea of CYA.

          We can debate the intentions of the parties involved all day, guessing with our best collective theories of mind. To me, though, IH’s involvement was the most important aspect of Rossi’s credibility, and the only external voice consistently vouching for Rossi’s claims.

          IH is reacting in a way that makes it seem like they only just recently realized they’ve been duped, deliberately or otherwise. Speculation, yes, but it frankly seems most plausible. They responded curtly to Rossi’s lawsuit in a CYA fashion, and have remained quiet since. The fact that they’ve apparently reverted so quickly on their previous stance after several months of shaky relations with Rossi isn’t surprising if:
          – one of their engineers uncovered a significant systematic measurement error (SSME) that had been falsely validating performance claims, and that this engineer couldn’t explain away the possibility that this SSME had been ongoing for the duration of the 1 MW pilot plant trial. ANY DOUBT WHATSOEVER is enough for investors with many millions on the line to back out, including IH, and thus the lawsuit, which really is about the E-cat’s performance as claimed.

          The sort of conspiratorial thinking required to explain IH’s actions as a deliberate fraud of Rossi’s IP is less likely true than many of the presuppositions of the “pathoskeptics”. As much as I also abhor such a negative and incessant tone, Rossi IS playing straight into that narrative right now, all else unknown. I will go ahead and say that if Rossi settles out of court and never has to prove the E-cat in a more rigorous environment, I will feel that I wasted a large fraction of my hope for humanity. The fact that he selected a low-brow pro-bono law firm to defend him is very troubling, because they will likely run out of funds during discovery and force a settlement, which will almost certainly not involve a court ordered demonstration of the E-cat.

          Let’s say the E-cat works exactly as promised, and described in the ERV (of which we’ve only been privy to a sprinkling of the conclusions there-in). IH decides they don’t want to deal with Rossi anymore, or that they really wouldn’t want to pay him $89 mil now or ever, for whatever reason. Having secured the bulk of his IP (as of 2013) they migrate that IP to another holding of theirs and begin work under the table, while their legal team gears up to destroy Rossi’s claims and shew him away. What happens in 3 years when IH finally has a 1st release using some of Rossi’s IP? Would they hope to merely sweep under the rug any relation they once had with Rossi? That would be damning in the eyes of most potential customers, and as such is an unlikely strategy.

          I feel that Rossi’s claim here, about nuclear inspectors coming to sht the whole thing down, is more an appeal to his blogsphere than an actual identification of trouble, especially since any inspectors in the US would have no authority in the UK. If the E-cat produces no harmful radiation as we’ve been led to believe, then nuclear inspectors wouldn’t be a threat.

          This has been a long-winded way of saying that I believe alternate explanations of events besides “Rossi vs. The World” are at least worth considering. As far as I can see, the E-cat saga turned away from progress and toward more delays and hand-waving with the lawsuit. The partnership with IH was the best thing that ever happened to the E-cat! Ultimately, the E-cat, regardless of what version we’re dealing with, has to work without Rossi present. If IH had any doubt of this for any reason at all, that explains their resistance to paying Rossi his dues.

          • Buck

            You strike me as being an APCO astroturf troll looking to float a newer theory that will somehow lead us into a confused state of mind . . . leaving us unable to determine the truth. As part of this, you overlook many events that undermine your theory.

            I think IH’s inability to find a customer willing to test the 1MW Plant is a most telling point. Rossi finally acted and found an interested customer relatively quickly, at least as compared to IH’s effort. This simply sets the tone for IH’s intent from the beginning. And their filing of patent(s) pointing to duplication does not guide one to your interpretation. And of course, it is important to not ignore deeper history such as the Lugano report with its wildly unexpected (at least to us) results.

          • I concur. I imagine we will be seeing many more new, obviously intelligent, identities popping up with similar well written and superficially well-argued posts that tangentially accuse Rossi of fraud, or otherwise try to drip-feed doubts into these discussions.

            Apologies, ‘Zack’ if you are a genuine commenter just wishing to straighten out all the dupes on this blog – but that isn’t really necessary or wanted, thank you.

          • Buck

            Agaricus,

            I think the strangest argument of all is that of fraud.

            The reason I say this is because of Rossi’s history in Italy. For better or worse, a serious investor will not ignore the mess of Petrol Dragon, the mafia, the corrupt legal system, and Rossi. It sets the investor on edge so as to be mindful of potential fraud.

            It seems reasonable to argue that Rossi jumped through a lot of hoops with the different independent third party reports as well as the ERV tests under the mindful eyes of those looking to protect their money. Meaning that IH focused on ensuring that those who did the testing were “clean” as well as capable.

            And then we move into the 1-Year Test where with the assumption that as the utility bills on a monthly basis, it was actually made up of 11+ independent monthly tests. And to push it, it was actually 352 daily tests given all the monitoring and accumulated data points for temperature and power in/out. All done under the 24/7 eye of those cautious about protecting their money.

            So, within weeks, maybe 8 – 12 weeks, they all were facing the fundamentally “crazy” performance of COP = +50.

            IH asks for substantiation . . . they had an additional ~8 months to substantiate the first 3. And given Rossi’s complaint, the overall performance continued to maintain the COP=+50 average. Did Rossi refuse to give IH or the ERV access so as to validate this “crazy” performance? That sort of behavior goes far beyond the broad term of “substantiate” towards fraud, a term IH was likely very sensitive to given Rossi’s already known history.

            Only time will tell how everyone behaved after the end of the 3rd month of the 1-Year Test.

          • Yes, fraud does seem unlikely in the extreme at this point. The only thing that seems reasonably certain is that there is very much more to this story than we can even guess, based on the very incomplete set of evidence (mostly ‘Rossi says’) that we have access to. As you say, time will tell.

          • Michael W Wolf

            IH sitting on their hands for 1 year deliberately breaching the contract is more than Rossi says. I mean if it wasn’t deliberate, then how incompetent is that? Risking 11.5 million of their investors money? But even though they didn’t find a test facility, they filed a patent where IH claimed to have built and tested a reactor of 11 COP. It is the only thing IH has claimed under oath of the patent. Everything else that followed honest people have to admit it seems IH is being dishonest. Fraudulent? I don’t know, but the contract problems we absolutely know about is on IH.

            The evidence that IH never intended a test or pay Rossi the 89 million is very logical here. For anyone to blame any of this on Rossi now is contrary to what we know. Now we find the SEC has ruled against Cherokee, pointing to the fact that IH and company are willing to play outside the rules of the game. There is something shady going on here and it all points to IH.

            Their public statement is meaningless, and what they claimed under oath so far supports Rossi’s adherence to the contract. We can assume Rossi breached the contract by not giving all IP know how to IH, but that is just hinted at in a worthless public statement, legally speaking. Rossi is being wrongfully ostracized and deserves better under the circumstances as we know it.

          • Buck

            Open question for one and all:

            What is the definition of the timely transfer of IP?

            Is it reasonable to cut some some slack for Andrea being in the shipping container for 16-18 hours/day, while evolving the E-Cat to the E-Cat X and then to the E-Cat QuarkX . . . All the while, saying that IH has the license rights to the new evolving E-Cat products?

          • Omega Z

            At this time, there is no E-Cat X or E-Cat Quark IP as it is still all R&D. However, according to the contract AND “Rossi says” on JONP, Industrial heat would have rights to that IP when the R&D is concluded as well as any other future technological advances. So speculation as to this being a problem has no bearing on the dispute. At least it Shouldn’t.

          • Buck

            OZ,

            I agree that when something is in R&D, there is no real pressure to share an IP that is not settled.

          • Roland

            And exactly what puts you in a position to ‘guarantee’ the capabilities of IH’s legal team?

            We can infer that that they can afford excellent lawyers but your assertion puts you on a very different plain…

            Then again you may be making a Trumpian assertion, i.e. essentially meaningless.

            Still, the tenor of your general commentary does suggest a particular interpretation and, possibly, and an explanation for your sudden and persistent presence in our ranks.

          • LarryJ

            You are wrong. Rossi is taking one rational step after the other and each step brings him closer to products in the market.
            “Substantially nothing to show”

            1. Demo of a 1 MW reactor in 2011
            2. Ferraro ecat test published in 2013
            3. Lugano ecat test published in 2014
            4. Patent received in 2015
            5. Conclusion of

            The fact that he is unwilling or unable to involve us in the process is irrelevant. If he were like any other industry then all of this would be happening completely out of sight. The fact that he shares any of it with us is a minor miracle for which I am thankful.

          • Roland

            No; you crush everybody out of the gates on multiple tactical axis’s, pile up huge money and brand recognition and then use the clout to strip the transgressors down to their underwear.

            Not everybody is inclined to hide like a mouse in a hole when the bass ring is already in hand.

            The product’s not called the E-Mouse…

            P.S. Some monumentally stupid people would hand the PLA the baton without a moment’s reflection on the ramifications for humanity.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Rossi may have a case of technicality. I mean technically R&D may not be considered IP that he would have to transfer to IH until it is out of R&D.

          • Omega Z

            Actually Buck, We do not know what the “average” COP is. If I recall, the report indicated a large portion if the time it was COP>50. However, it doesn’t take much to chisel away from that number.

            The point is even a small error in calculations or instrument readings can put a serious whammy on the COP>50. It all evolves around the diminishing returns once you exceed COP>20. However, once at or below COP>20, it requires a much larger error to be off by much.

          • Buck

            OZ,

            if you read Paragraph 73 of the complaint, you will find Rossi’s presentation of the ERV results. This of course assumes Rossi is quoting accurately.

            Regarding the possibility of ERV error in measurement, time will tell how his methods stand up to scrutiny. However, for reasons stated in another post in this thread, I find it a challenge to entertain that this reported COP of +60 wasn’t critically evaluated beginning by the 3rd month if not sooner in the 1-Year Test.

            Of course, we wait for how all of this stands up in court.

            One thing I look forward to is the comparison of the mystery customer’s before and after utility bills . . . an economic test to the efficacy of the installed E-Cat.

          • Steve Swatman

            One could equally use your argument and put a serious whammy only a COP of 50, It may be that errors in instrument readings were hiding a COP of 60+, potential errors and arguments can work both ways.

          • cashmemorz

            That kind of attitude is a no-no for skeptics. For skeptics it all has to be negative. That is a definition of skeptic, otherwise they would be called optimists.

          • Omega Z

            Keep in mind that the maximum COP is limited by the necessity of power applied even during SSM. According to Rossi, even in SSM, approximately 1.3KW to 1.4KW are applied. In addition, SSM is not continuous and we don’t know the average percentage. If SSM is 75% of the time, COP is halved.

            Of course in Full context, COP is a fallacy. The E-cat has no COP any more then an IC engine.

          • Michael W Wolf

            They serve only to keep the world from moving forward. Always have, always will. They create nothing and get their fuel from those who are would be creators.

          • LarryJ

            This court case will run on for years. You might get the demo in you seek in 2020 but whenever it is it will be moot by then.

          • cashmemorz

            IH has smart people running it. As such they mean something simple and elegant by “unsubstantiated”. That word means that something is as claimed but only needs further more definitive proof. By not paying AR, they are forcing his hand. AR is doing the substantiating by selling the E-Cats. When a few have reached several customers and have run for a few weeks or months, at that point the validity of the E-Cats function at or over COP 3 at a few customer installations is all that is needed. If this doesn’t happen AR losses everything and IH at least saves their last installment to AR.

          • Omega Z

            As I’ve posted before, I was never fully on board with Industrial Heat. I gave them the benefit of doubt because Rossi thought well of them.

            However, with this dust up between them, more has come to light about Industrial Heat’s business practices.(Their MO) They create and make use of many (Name Here LLC’s) for different projects and make small investments(Mostly other peoples money**) in Brownfields. They then get others to foot the bill including tax payer backed issued bonds. 10’s of Millions.

            ** Mostly other peoples money primarily comes from mom & pop pension funds. Does Woodford ring a bell…

            Should things workout, they collect the lions share of the profit. Should it go bankrupt(AndMany Have), other Entities and the Tax payer are stuck for the cost of the party.

            Take Note:
            It was “NEVER” Industrial Heat’s intention to manufacture and sell LENR products. Their intent was to corner or obtain Intellectual Property then repackage it and sell either License or sell it to the Highest bidder. That is their MO. They do not produce or build anything. They are merely opportunistic exploitors as most all Venture Capitalists are.

            Don’t be concerned of Industrial Heat/Darden’s investment in Rossi. They done recouped their 11.5 Million$ from other investors. The same way they do with Brownfield projects.

            The numbers are fictious, but here’s how that works. I bought the manufacturing and marketing rights to E-cat for 11.5 Million. To get in on this, you need to pay me say, 50 M$ for 10% of my shares.

            It is an inopportune time for Industrial heat to have a positive outcome of the test. They do not have all their ducks in a row yet. They are not ready… They try to put the brakes on.

          • bachcole

            Nice.

          • psi2u2

            “After he pressed charges on his benefactors for not giving him even more money.”

            No, it was after they did not fulfill their contractual obligation to make a payment to him. This is not at all the same thing as what you say. Had they a legitimate reason for not paying? Maybe. Maybe not. But your summary of the case prejudges it unfairly.

          • bachcole

            Perfect.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I agree that the SSME option is not yet off the table. Especially, Rossi’s carefully adjusted waveform might be able to fool most meters, including those used by electricity providers. This would be a catastrophe, though, and that’s why many people do not even want to think about it.

            At least, if it could be shown that the output energy of the 1 MW plant was measured correctly, an error in the input measurement would seem unlikely, unless they had a line that was capable of delivering 1 MW of continuous power. As far as I remember, it has been said that they had only a 250 kW terminal. That could be verified easily.

            Regarding the output, a testimonial of the customer (the company behind JC Products) might be helpful. If it is Johnson Matthey or an enterprise of similar calibre nobody would doubt their statements, I think.

      • dave

        Roland
        Bloomberg’s graph is only for 125 years. That’s barely than two Pacific cycles and less than 10% of a Milankovich cycle. It was warmer than now 1000 years ago,and 2000 years ago and 3000 years ago. If you look at temps from ice cores it has been a cooling trend for 8000 years since the Holocene maximum. Google JAMAL MUNSHI and read his three latest papers-only a few pages each, to see why I have doubts about CO2 leading us to ruin. Check out CO2 Coalition, or the lectures by Professor Murray Salby or Professor Richard Lindzen. There is ample proof of the poor science used to push the CO2 political agenda.

        • kdk

          Assuming global warming isn’t caused by our huge increase in CO2 production, the C02 and other aerial pollutants are bad for our health, and the oceans where humanity gets lots of its food, and millions die every year from air pollution.

          • radvar

            FF = fossil fuels
            AGW = anthrogenic (human caused) global warming
            IP = intellectual property

          • dave

            Co2 is not a pollutant. It is a colorless, odorless trace gas, that makes up about .04% of of our atmosphere and is necessary for all life on earth. At .015% no plants will grow and the food chain is shorted out. Increasing its concentration helps all plants grow and helps them use less water as they grow. If we have pollution problems we should address the pollutants as we have in the past. U.S. air is cleaner than it was in the 70s and is getting cleaner all the time. Poor countries that use wood or animal dung have real pollution problems as do developing countries like China that don’t mandate scrubbers and other pollution control on their power generation facilities.

          • kdk

            I guess we should go for broke then.

          • gdaigle

            Not to draw too fine a point, but…
            From the American Heritage Science Dictionary:

            pollutant – A substance or condition that contaminates air, water, or soil. Pollutants can be artificial substances, such as pesticides and PCBs, or naturally occurring substances, such as oil or carbon dioxide, that occur in harmful concentrations in a given environment. Heat transmitted to natural waterways through warm-water discharge from power plants and uncontained radioactivity from nuclear wastes are also considered pollutants.

          • dave

            So far there is no good evidence that Co2 occurs in harmful concentration or that human released Co2 controls the atmospheric concentration (see Munshi’s paper). The space station allows 8000 parts per million in their atmosphere without adverse effects.

        • Roland

          Atmospheric CO2 content has vacillated between 150ppm, ice ages, and 280ppm, lush warm periods, over the last 600,000 years by the analysis of Antarctic ice core samples. Within that timeframe every significant geological and climatological event that bears on the issue before us has left analyzable fingerprints in the form of dust, unusual isotopes, gas balances, spores, other lifeforms, and a host of other indicators from which existing conditions at points within the timeframe can be inferred with reasonable accuracy.

          During this timeframe there is no evidence that the current rate of change in gas balances and average temperatures we are seeing in the data from the last hundred years has occurred, in fact nothing comes remotely close to the current rate of change in all those years.

          There’s a concept whose grasp is essential to this debate, water is 5 times better than any other known substance at storing heat; by which I mean that it requires 5 times the energy to raise a specific weight of water 1 degree in temperature as the next most able storage medium.

          The heat isn’t being stored in the atmosphere, excepting in water vapour, it is being stored in liquid water. CO2 also dissolves in water; in sufficient concentrations the acidity of oceans and lakes are effected in ways that have direct bearing on all the life forms that use calcium to build protective shells.

          The combination of elevated ocean temperatures and acidity is having visible effects that are, to say the least, unprecedented. The oldest continuously living organism on the planet is a coral reef off of Bermuda, it is over 360,000 years old. It’s dying. It’s temperature sensitive; the waters around it are to warm. It’s had no time to adapt to the changes that doom it. It’s one of many all round the world in similar straights.

          One of the prime movers, Exxon, in manufacturing doubt, with the able assistance of APCO, about humanities’ role in the rate of change in average temperatures recanted years ago.

          A number of other corporations, such as the bankrupt Peabody Coal Company and the ever popular Koch Industries (through a truly impressive constellation of front organizations) are carrying on the good fight to stave off the consequences of operating the very dirtiest carbon businesses in America (they win the top spots decade after decade) with the able assistance of APCO’s stable of ‘experts’ (i.e. people who have no training in the relevant fields of study but will pretend to know all for chump change; my personal favourite is a jolly looking sociologist who was an ‘expert’ on the non-existent effects of smoking tobacco and will ardently testify that it’s just weather and ‘there’s nothing to worry about’. His ‘professional’ opinions cost a measly $60,000 a year in ‘grant’ money. He specializes in the sneering putdown; it’s like watching Santa Claus telling children why they’ll never be loved by anyone, ever, cause they’re just so, so stupid for even thinking of disagreeing with him. A stunningly effective, very convincing, utterly sociopathic liar).

          American is distinguished by, among many more edifying traits, harbouring by far the largest percentage of the populace, among first world nations, to deny what both their own senses and science make abundantly clear. We have already committed to a course of action, changing the gas balances in the atmosphere, that can’t be retreated from in any meaningful time frame and we’re aggravating the scale of the problem daily while guessing about where the point of no return for the current ecology of the planet is.

          This isn’t like denying that your three pack a day habit is affecting your health, I smoked two packs a day for way to long, or aggravating your kid’s asthma. We’re all free to commit slow suicide in any number of ways; when we’re ready to take the whole world down with us the ethical balance shifts in favour of caution about what’s inadequately understood and potentially threatening on a vast scale.

          Careless people undergo horrendous life altering events without ever noticing they’re in trouble till it’s to late to respond, do we really want to find out if a species can do this too?

          I don’t.

          • dave

            I appreciate your angst but must disagree as I have been looking into this discussion for several years and have seen good scientists refute the alarmist point of view about any eminent dangerous effects of CO2 from our activities. Here are a couple of graphs that display the non-correlation of temp and CO2 and the fact that our temps are not unprecedented. http://www.biocab.org/Geological_Timescale.jpg ,http://www.climate4you.com/images/GISP2%20TemperatureSince10700%20BP%20with%20CO2%20from%20EPICA%20DomeC.gif Munshi’s papers show there is no good correlation of emissions and CO2 in the atmosphere. If you want to look into this side of the discussion start with Burt Rutan’s review of the data as well as “The Right Climate Stuff” a group of retired NASA scientists with impeccable credentials and no ax to grind.
            That said, I still think that the emergence of new energy sources is the most important event of my waning lifetime for the future of humanity and freedom so I truly hope Rossi is the man I have envisioned and not the scam artist some are declaring him to be. I wait with much anticipation for each new tidbit of news.

          • wpj

            I’m impressed!

            Will it be for steam or thermal transfer fluid (assuming that it will work with that)?

          • bachcole

            Nice, dave. Those graphs freedom me from the AGW hysteria prison.

            Remember that Rossi may be difficult to get along with, he may even be losing his marbles, but there is still Levi 2013 and Lugano 2014, two very difficult to dispute facts. The LENR+ Juggernaut is on it way, whether Rossi is driving it or not.

          • dave

            I’m sorry my reply got lost so I will try again.
            I am convinced by good science and ample study that the CO2 apocalypse is over stated. If you want to check out a small portion of the resources on this statement look at Bob Carter’s books and presentations. If you are numbers guy check out Burt Rutan’s comments or The Right Climate Stuff (a group of retired NASA scientists).
            That said, I believe the emergence of new energy tech is the most important development in my waning lifetime. I see it as protecting people, the environment, and human freedom. I truly hope Rossi is the man I have envisioned and not the scam artist some think.

      • psi2u2

        Here’s a whole website of reading for you to consider the “other side”: https://wattsupwiththat.com/

        In any case, however, whatever one’s belief about AGW, Rossi is not responsible for it. He may have part of the solution, but jumping up and down and blaming him for not having the solution on someone else’s schedule is pointless and off topic.

    • Job001

      Well, dave, you’ve bought the BS of lawyers on retainers, i.e. half of which is paid for by you and I as taxpayers. Truth is, next to nothing is absolutely provable. The half truth nonsense is that there is NO empirical evidence. On the other hand, climate scientists overwhelmingly, in excess of 93% and increasing, agree that AGW is a settled fact, just not as deniers simplify it into a silly denial model only about temperature and absolute proof.

      For instance, climate story uses many complicated models, statistical correlation, it is not just about temperature, but chemistry, heat storage, heat absorption and reflection, energy circulation and not about something impossible like absolute proof or temperature change only.

      Absolute proof was something the tobacco lawyers righteously demanded also, a similar “Red herring” argument, since science is not about absolute proof at all, and AGW is not about warming only nor absolute proof either but serious unbiased science rather than big money and defending continued excess FF waste promoted by sociopathic greed.

      • psi2u2

        I used to agree with you. Before I read up.

      • Omega Z

        “unbiased science”
        No such beast exists.

  • Guru Khalsa

    It is sad that after all this time we are back to the snakes and the secret customer. The Rossi IH partnership gave Rossi a certain legitimacy that can now seemly only be regained by a revealing and successful lawsuit. The fact that Rossi seems to be difficult to work with doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the goods, but how good are they, and will we ever find out before a new game changing tech arrives and nobody cares any longer.
    The IH betrayal, the dark money, the global economy and other nefarious subplots certainly adds spice to the story, but I am left with the feeling that i just don’t have enough information to make a reasonable guess as to what is the truth. Somebody should write a book- oh wait, they already did.

  • Guru Khalsa

    It is sad that after all this time we are back to the snakes and the secret customer. The Rossi IH partnership gave Rossi a certain legitimacy that can now seemly only be regained by a revealing and successful lawsuit. The fact that Rossi seems to be difficult to work with doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the goods, but how good are they, and will we ever find out before a new game changing tech arrives and nobody cares any longer.
    The IH betrayal, the dark money, the global economy and other nefarious subplots certainly adds spice to the story, but I am left with the feeling that i just don’t have enough information to make a reasonable guess as to what is the truth. Somebody should write a book- oh wait, they already did.

    • bachcole

      Very nice comment.

    • Pweet

      Neither a successful lawsuit or an unsuccessful lawsuit will prove anything about whether the ecat actually works. All it will prove is who has covered their ass best with the best worded agreement and who has got the best lawyer to wriggle out of it.

      If Rossi wins his case it means no more than the jury have decided his story sounds better than IH’s story. It will not be decided on technical validity.
      The jury will almost certainly have no technical knowledge at all so can only decide on how well the lawyers for each side tells the tale, and it will be a tale of business agreements, not about whether the ecat has a COP of 2 or 20.

      There have been some absolute travesties of justice by lawyers neglecting to put up a convincing presentation of a completely true story, and lawyers putting up a totally convincing presentation of a completely false story.
      All a Rossi win would do is provide some satisfaction to those who might think he actually has something.

  • BillH

    Currently I haven’t been able to make a between Brillouin and IH outside of this site?

    • bachcole

      What is “a between”?

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Connexion

      • billH

        Oops, a link contract or connection. The best I can now find is that someone from IH rumoured at a link in some ICCF conference somewhere. Maybe JT Vaughn said it. Can anyone confirm, first hand?

  • Alan DeAngelis
  • Alan DeAngelis
  • John

    Such bull$#i! The world’s climate is radically changing, we are in the midst of a human-caused extinction event, and this technology COULD change all that, and this MF’er wants to remain anonymous. WTF! Disclose now and sell these 1MW plants to the maximum production capabilities NOW!

    • Steve Swatman

      What would change that all the faster is better government and corporate legislation, the ecat will still takes many years and billions of unit before it makes a difference, your government could make a difference today.

    • malkom700

      You are absolutely right and pointed to the essentials, but I think that Rossi has nothing to do with organizations to discord. Instead, let’s be happy that he gives out information on processes alone. It also is proved to be true that there is some kind of a test and evaluation. If proved to be true of the three new plant for sale it will also be a step forward. In addition, it must be recognized the heroic work of the replicators as well.

    • “we are in the midst of a human-caused extinction event”

      And yet, we are no where near the ‘projections’ of temperature rise as forecast by James Hansen (formerly of) of NASA GISS or the IPCC.

      In fact, we have seen nothing like the extreme temperatures seen in NA in the 1930 time period.

      In fact, we are still recovering from the last ice age when the Wisconsin Glacier covered much of NA, when there was no ‘oil economy’ 10,000 yrs ago to take us out of an ice age.

  • bachcole

    Do we have any confirmation that some people “have sent libraries of letters to all the possible authorities asking
    for the prohibition of the E-Cat because it emits toxic radiations.”? Just one little confirmation would be very nice.

    • wonderboy

      Sounds like you are becoming skeptical 😉

    • Steve Swatman

      I seem to remember about 6 months a couple of scientists, one who owns a oil exploration company, published that they had experimented with lenr and found radiation spikes at high COP values, so they stopped working, that was the setup for this week in my opinion, The reposrt on this site, but I cannot find it. Also in the early days Rossi said he saw spikes of Radiation at high COP, one can assume he has overcome this issue but the fact remains that its a tool the sceptics have had ready for a long while. I have no doubt that tool is now been used.

      One does assume though that as Rossi has been surrounded by working Ecats for a year that he overcome this issue, If we wanted to to conspiritorial, we might think that his ilness of a few weeks ago was his ploy for laying down the path for the sceptics to write these letters knowing that a simple test would prove all the claims wrong, but that the test would be really public, like in a court room. 😉

    • ebevogon

      The main snake Krivit (for quite a while it was the only snake) never will write such a letter, since he represents the postiton that the Ecat is fraud. By the way, Rossi announced years ago that he will publish details of the snake story in “due time. We will have a lot to laugh.” Another question.Rossi announced on his blog a sue to Wikipedia concerning the Wikipedia entry. Can somebody ask him about the state of these affairs.

    • BarneyP

      The same confirmation we have on the three newly sold plants, that should be summed to the 12 already sold in 2013 to some other Secret Customers.

      Rossi words, in the end.

      Do you need something else? 🙂

  • Omega Z

    So if Rossi does not receive payment, All IH Licensed territory is up for grabs as the contract would be null and void..

  • Alain Samoun

    Hi Clovis
    Well, all scenarios are possible at this point,hoping that the end of the story will be like the one of a Disney movie…They marry and had a lot of little cats 😉

  • Roberto

    Rossi is not acting his age. Instead of picking a childish quarrel with Darden, he should keep his eyes on “the prize” and get on with the task at hand — to bring the e-cat technology to the world. By sueing IH, Rossi is biting the hand that fed him. Before IH, Rossi’s e-cat was a pile plumbing wrapped in aluminum foil. IH gave him the money to make the shiny 1 MW plant in a container and buy those condos.

    If e-cat is real, others will be willing to pay a lot more than 89 million. What will Rossi do with all this money anyway. Nobody to inherit it. He says that his wife and son left him long time ago after his troubles with the law earlier.

    If e-cat were real, IH could sell the rights to their license for 100s of billion and give Rossi his 89 million. It does not make sense to say that IH does not have the money to pay Rossi, so they are trying to wiggle out of the contract.

    • Steve Swatman

      did you miss the part where Darden and co, Did not pay for the Ecat after the test, and gave Rossis work to a competitor to test and filed Patents without Rossi’s knowledge?

      If the ecat is real the customer might 3 and might pay for the setup of a factory, its not about money really is it, its about Darden and co trying to stifle the ecat. surely you read a lot of comments before commenting?

      If the ecat is real, its requires certification, and patents and stuff, which is really what Rossi is angry about, how he joined with a company and that company screwed him out of his pay, then passed his work to a competitor and attempted to patent Rossis work, You cannot sell the rights to a work while in a court case with people who say they own the rights and who say they cannot “substantiate” Rossis claims. Who is trying out of the contract and who is trying to screw who? no one but Rossi and Darden really know, everything esles if conjecture.

    • Engineer48

      Getting on with business is what Andrea & Leonardo are doing. Bringing HIS ECat technology to the world ASAP.

      I know that is happening as I’m working, as are others, to deliver ECat deliverable energy benefits to real world clients.

      The courts will decide who did or did not violate the conditions of the agreed and signed contract between Cherokee and Leonardo.

      Public opinions will not influence the court decision, which is about contract law. Those who do not understand or wish to accept the enforceability of contract law should hold their opinions until the court decision is delivered.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    Connexion

  • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

    This is pure speculation. Rossi seems to be trying to get his fans on his side.
    It may be true but what we really need now is proofs.

    He says that he is developing 3 new plants.

    So he should give us photographs of the manufacturing of these plants. They dont need to show anything that can be used by the competitors but something to see that they are really being produced.

    That way, both skeptics and believers would get a tangible proof that everything is going ahead.

    • He is probably just feeling a bit lonely at the moment. However, if ‘spreading the word’ is a part of his game plan then blog posters could be useful – provided that there was something of substance to spread the word about.

      • LarryJ

        Rossi could care less about skeptics, believers, scientists, the general public or the peanut gallery. His focus is on getting his products to market. He knows that is the only important task and he is totally focused on that task.

        • Albert Nilsson

          His actions this far does not support that claim. Because then there would already be at least one product in the open market already now.

          • LarryJ

            Every step he takes brings him one step closer to products in the market. Five years ago he did the 1MW demo in 2011, then the Ferrara test in 2013, then the Lugano test in 2014. The latest step was proving the viability of a 1MW commercial reactor by building one and testing it in a commercial venue for a full year. That was a giant step. Now the next step is industrialization. One rational step after the other.

            All of the steps he takes are controversial and there will always be a large crowd who will call them fraudulent, misguided, incompetently performed or what have you. This illustrates why there is no such thing as an irrefutable demo or test. They will always be refuted by someone or some group regarded by many as more credible than Rossi. The only irrefutable evidence is products in the market.

            If you were referring to a domestic use products then safety certification is the issue and that is beyond his control. That would very quickly lead to products in the market but safety certification is a major concern for the insurance industry and they require evidence of safe operation in a highly controlled industrial venue before they will allow the ecat to be declared safe for home operation.

          • bachcole

            Nice.

    • LarryJ

      Photographs would prove nothing and would be hotly disputed. The only tangible proof is products in the market that anyone can buy. As we have already seen, no industrial customer is going to want to participate in the blogoshpere war that is whirling around this topic, so until we have domestic certification I would expect cold fusion to remain well under the radar for the general public. The skeptics don’t want proof and the believers already have all they need.

      • Engineer48

        As neither a Skeptic nor Believer but a real world development engineer, what I require is a LENR manufacturer that can deliver the high COP reactor my clients need.

        So far only Leonardo will engage and discuss my clients requirements and talk specifications, warranty, certifications & delivery time franes.

        As far as I can see, only Leonardo has a product to deliver and all the other LENR companies are just wannabes.

      • bachcole

        I think that Julio is talking about himself (and me and others). I have degrees of belief, and it would help me if I were to see a photograph.

  • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

    This is pure speculation. Rossi seems to be trying to get his fans on his side.
    It may be true but what we really need now is proofs.

    He says that he is developing 3 new plants.

    So he should give us photographs of the manufacturing of these plants. They dont need to show anything that can be used by the competitors but something to see that they are really being produced.

    That way, both skeptics and believers would get a tangible proof that everything is going ahead.

    • He is probably just feeling a bit lonely at the moment. But if ‘spreading the word’ is a part of his game plan then blog posters could be useful – provided that there was something of substance to spread the word about.

      • LarryJ

        Rossi could care less about skeptics, believers, scientists, the general public or the peanut gallery. His focus is on getting his products to market. He knows that is the only important task and he is totally focused on that task.

        • Albert Nilsson

          His actions this far does not support that claim. Because then there would already be at least one product in the open market already now.

          • LarryJ

            Every step he takes brings him one step closer to products in the market. Five years ago he did the 1MW demo in 2011, then the Ferrara test in 2013, then the Lugano test in 2014. The latest step was proving the viability of a 1MW commercial reactor by building one and testing it in a commercial venue for a full year. That was a giant step. Now the next step is industrialization. One rational step after the other.

            All of the steps he takes are controversial and there will always be a large crowd who will call them fraudulent, misguided, incompetently performed or what have you. This illustrates why there is no such thing as an irrefutable demo or test. They will always be refuted by someone or some group regarded by many as more credible than Rossi. The only irrefutable evidence is products in the market.

            If you were referring to a domestic use products then safety certification is the issue and that is beyond his control. That would very quickly lead to products in the market but safety certification is a major concern for the insurance industry and they require evidence of safe operation in a highly controlled industrial venue before they will allow the ecat to be declared safe for home operation.

          • bachcole

            Nice.

      • bachcole

        Yeah, I haven’t been doing any spreading lately because of this brouhaha.

    • LarryJ

      Photographs would prove nothing and would be hotly disputed. The only tangible proof is products in the market that anyone can buy. As we have already seen, no industrial customer is going to want to participate in the blogoshpere war that is whirling around this topic, so until we have domestic certification I would expect cold fusion to remain well under the radar for the general public. The skeptics don’t want proof and the believers already have all they need.

      • Engineer48

        As neither a Skeptic nor Believer but a real world development engineer, what I require is a LENR manufacturer that can deliver the high COP reactor my clients need.

        So far only Leonardo will engage and discuss my clients requirements and talk specifications, warranty, certifications & delivery time franes.

        As far as I can see, only Leonardo has a product to deliver and all the other LENR companies are just wannabes.

      • bachcole

        I think that Julio is talking about himself (and me and others). I have degrees of belief, and it would help me if I were to see a photograph.

  • malkom700

    You are absolutely right and pointed to the essentials, but I think that Rossi has nothing to do with organizations to discord. Instead, let’s be happy that he gives out information on processes alone. It also is proved to be true that there is some kind of a test and evaluation. If proved to be true of the three new plant for sale it will also be a step forward. In addition, it must be recognized the heroic work of the replicators as well.

  • jousterusa

    This is probably Steven Krivitz at work. His meal of crow didn’t go down too well, but he cooked it!

    • roseland67

      Jouster,
      As of today, I would say Krivit and Mary Yugo
      Are closer to being correct than most.

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        Though they might appear correct when castrating everything they read on cf, they sure do not appear to convey correctness or impartiality in tone and attitude.
        That really gives them away. Since they rarely refrain from personally attacking cf scientists, calling Rossi all kinds of names, how would one define them, really? “Biased” would be an understatement, no?

      • GreenWin

        Mary and Kirvit are subject of MIT’s herpetological studiessssssssssssss.

    • roseland67

      Exactly what meal would that be?

  • jousterusa

    This is probably Steven Krivitz at work. His meal of crow didn’t go down too well, but he cooked it!

    • roseland67

      Jouster,
      As of today, I would say Krivit and Mary Yugo
      Are closer to being correct than most.

      • Engineer48

        So you have tried to order a 1MW ECat reactor from Leonardo Corp & were told to go away?

        I did that and have engaged the process.

        Please talk actuality & not wannabe theory.

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        Though they might appear correct when castrating everything they read on cf, they sure do not appear to convey correctness or impartiality in tone and attitude.
        That really gives them away. Since they rarely refrain from personally attacking cf scientists, calling Rossi all kinds of names, how would one define Yugo, Krivit & the rest of the pathoskeptics, really? “Biased” would be an understatement, no?

      • GreenWin

        Mary and Kirvit are subject of MIT’s herpetological studiessssssssssssss.

    • roseland67

      Exactly what meal would that be?

  • georgehants

    Inverse
    The often-ostracised research is getting a resurgence of attention
    Kastalia Medrano
    April 15, 201
    Cold fusion has historically received more attention from screenwriters
    than journalists. Recently, though, the media has started getting into
    the game. There are the breathless (for Scandinavia anyway) stories about the new research coming out of Norway. There is the pretty epic thinkpiece in Aeon. There is the reaction to that thinkpiece in Popular Mechanics.
    And there is just a ton of easily dismissed nonsense out of India. The
    stories all make internal sense, but the broader narrative is hard to
    follow. What do we talk about when we talk about cold fusion?
    https://www.inverse.com/article/14355-cold-fusion-is-news-again-but-the-search-for-the-energy-holy-grail-ain-t-over

  • Optimist

    Ok. Let’s assume that Rossi and IH are in this for the money and they have collected all the funding needed to complete the R&D necessary to patent the most worthy bits and pieces of industrialisation of LENR. They are still on a fast track adding new knowledge like direct electric generation few months back and know that there is more to come.

    If that is the case, is it in their best interests to provide at this point in time an undeniable evidence of LENR or should they buy them selves a couple of years to add to the IP portfolio and reduce others investment in the field by casting doubt on the whole thing?

    There is really no business rational to draw attention to a technology before you have either secured your IP or you are ready with a product. Publishing the report has always been based on Rossi ambitious to proof to the world what he has and IH desires to build a better world.

    So maybe they are capitalists after all?

    • LarryJ

      Publishing the report has nothing at all to do with Rossi’s ambition to prove to the world what he has or IH’s desire to build a better world. The report was prepared entirely in house as a contractual obligation to determine if the terms of the contract between IH and Leonardo were met and to internally validate the long term commercial viability of the technology. Rossi has said as much. It will have zero impact on proving the tech to the world and we already know from the court documents the most important detail. The reactor worked so let the industrialization begin.

      Leonardo/ Rossi have now announced they are in the industrialization phase and intend to bring products to market this year. IH likes to stay under the radar but you can bet they are doing the same. They both now share the IP for the low temperature reactor and they will argue about IP rights for the next decade. Right now its market share that counts and there is no way one is going to give up this huge and lucrative market to the other just so they can do more R&D. The court case is an unimportant sideshow that won’t be decided for many years and after many appeals.

      • Optimist

        I hope you are right when you assume that they are months away from industrialization while it literally needed Rossi to be on-board the container for the whole year to keep it going. A commercial/industrial product must be both controllable, serviceable and reliable and normally it takes years to move from functional prototype to that kind of product. The path is that from the prototype status, you normally make a commercial pilot product that is verified and validated before you can start running batches of products. Hopefully we see the next prototype/pilot run product later this year but general released product must be further down the road.

        • Albert Nilsson

          For the last year, was Rossi in the container at the customer site making sure that the test was running ok, or was he in his own lab developing the next generation of the E-cat?

        • Fedir Mykhaylov

          Apparently Rossi is going to submit a 1 MW plant as a commercial pilot project.

        • LarryJ

          I agree that a general released product is still further down the road and we probably won’t see it until the domestic units are certified but in the meantime Rossi says if you want an industrial reactor just go to his site and order one. He also said he expects to have the 3 for the existing client built in 180 days because they are not yet in mass production mode. Sounds reasonable to me.

          I guess what we need is an industrialist who craves adverse publicity and who doesn’t care about keeping his competitive advantage a secret to step up and order one without requiring an NDA.

          These reactors save so much in energy costs that I imagine some customers would be quite willing to put up with teething problems as long as Leonardo agrees to keep them going.

        • roseland67

          Optimist,
          Larry did not say they are months away from industrialization, nor did he imply it,
          You simply inferred it to fit your argument,

      • Alex Fenrick

        Optimist makes a great point….Rossi essentially just exited a more or less functional prototype stage (assuming it does function) and test stage. I think you are being way too optimistic thinking he can go from this stage to a stable commercial product that can be run reliably day to day without Rossi or a Leonardo employee babysitting it 24/7 in a matter of months from now. Such a jump would be so far out of the norm even if Rossi still had millions of dollars to nudge it along…it just doesn’t happen that fast for any high tech industry let alone one that is brand new and untested.

    • roseland67

      AR has indicated he has”robotized” factory’s for 5 years now. He would not have developed these if he didn’t believe his product was ready
      Drawing attention to Ecat is all he has been doing for the last 5 years.

  • JC

    https://animpossibleinvention.com/2016/04/15/new-energy-world-symposium-will-be-cancelled/

    Truth be told, i am sick and tired of Andrea Rossi and his words. Thats all we have seen, words. Lets be honest here guys, if he really wanted to get his tech confirmed he could have done it a long time ago.

    I have spent 5 years following rossi and his e-cat. Enough is enough.

    • LarryJ

      Rossi knows the only way his tech will be confirmed is through products in the market. Despite all the talk about irrefutable demos and test reports there is no other way to convince the public. The ERV report will have no more effect than any of the previous reports or tests and even if thousands of replicators started showing a cop > 50 nobody would believe it until they saw a product they could buy. Of course if thousands of replicators could produce a high cop then one of them would certainly bring a product to market. That is just the nature of a paradigm shift. We are talking about shifting reality and that is not easily done.

      It is just as well that you take a break from it. Your expectations are very unrealistic and disappointment is sure to follow. This stage of the development is much better suited and more rewarding for dreamers who trust their own judgement and neither need or demand impossible confirmations.

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        If we are frustrated, I wonder how must Dr Rossi feel… He is fighting for what he believes is the truth, it has never been pretty for him. We should be consistent with what we choose to believe, too.
        Those of us who can no longer be bothered simply with reading the news, had better ‘take a break’, as you say.
        Mats took a difficult decision on the Symposium, but, IMHO, the right one.

        • roseland67

          Rossi is fighting for $$$$$ only, period.
          He could have set up an Ecat at MIT or Argonne, NASA or Fermi labs anytime if he was only searching for “truth”.

      • Pweet

        He SAYS the only way his tech will be confirmed is through products in the marketplace. He says, “The market will decide.” And yet he has always refused to allow one to enter the market-place, even though his agents have arranged for exactly this to happen. Mr. Rossi has never supplied one.
        Why not?
        For Mr. Rossi to continue with his program, I think he knows very well it is essential none of his ecats get into the open market where critical tests can be done on them. So, in the five years in which they have supposedly been ready for market and advertised for sale, not one has been supplied to fill a genuine sale unconnected to the Rossi camp. Not one. There has to be a reason for this,

        • bachcole

          1st: You don’t know this for a fact, as Engineer48 said below.
          2nd: If what you say is true, why won’t he take your investment money?
          3rd: He is on the verge of selling units, yet you are too impatient and too happy to slam him without waiting a few months to see what happens; what possible harm is there to you if you wait patiently. We know what he has been doing.

          Like you, I hope to see some confirmation that he has sold 3 units to someone, and “Rossi says” will not be confirmation for me.

        • LarryJ

          There are reasons that he has not yet sold products to non-affiliated customers.

          The first and biggest reason is that he does not yet have a product in mass production for the market. Your comment states

          “So, in the five years in which they have supposedly been ready for market and advertised for sale”.

          This is simply not true, not over the last 5 years or even over the last year. He has been taking unpaid pre-orders for years but they have never been advertised and he has always been clear that these pre-orders will get priority once he has product for the market. He is now taking commercial orders but he will be carefully vetting the orders that he accepts. The recent test of the 1MW reactor was intended to provide a prototype that would prove the commercial viability of the product. The customer that purchased this first reactor was retained by Rossi so it is safe to say that he had some kind of prior relationship with them.

          You have to keep in mind that he has only recently managed to get his first patent approved so out of necessity he has had to be very careful about not letting his tech fall into the wrong hands. The current dispute with IH clearly demonstrates the need for caution. When you start talking about a tech worth trillions of dollars the veneer of civilization wears very thin indeed. If he had allowed unrestricted access to just anyone, they would have immediately reverse engineered his invention and applied for patents. As a result his tests were performed by highly qualified and carefully vetted parties that he trusted enough to perform the tests and not steal the tech. We think he trusted IH and although we don’t know IH’s side, it is clear to all that it did not end well.

          Rossi has always stated that he intends a massive production and sales at a price that will make reverse engineering his products futile. In other words he plans to flood the market. This policy will help protect his IP and it will make the introduction less disruptive since any business that wants one can get one within a reasonable period of time and not be bankrupted by competitors that were ahead of them in line. However, preparing for such a massive production is not a small or simple task. It is like Elon Musk saying that before he sells a single car he will build 10,000 of them to immediately satisfy demand and discourage competitors. Fortunately an ecat reactor core is at least an order of magnitude less complex to build than a car so once his production facilities are in place he will churn out quarkx reactor cores like they were popcorn. Even then the production of end use products will probably be left to OEMs and that too will take time to organize.

          It sounds like a long wait but Rossi is now building his production line and has said that he expects to build the first quarkx based prototype reactor this year. Things are happening.

  • JC

    https://animpossibleinvention.com/2016/04/15/new-energy-world-symposium-will-be-cancelled/

    Truth be told, i am sick and tired of Andrea Rossi and his words. Thats all we have seen, words. Lets be honest here guys, if he really wanted to get his tech confirmed he could have done it a long time ago.

    I have spent 5 years following rossi and his e-cat. Enough is enough.

    • LarryJ

      Rossi knows the only way his tech will be confirmed is through products in the market. Despite all the talk about irrefutable demos and test reports there is no other way to convince the public. The ERV report will have no more effect than any of the previous reports or tests and even if thousands of replicators started showing a cop > 50 nobody would believe it until they saw a product they could buy. Of course if thousands of replicators could produce a high cop then one of them would certainly bring a product to market. That is just the nature of a paradigm shift. We are talking about shifting reality and that is not easily done.

      It is just as well that you take a break from it. Your expectations are very unrealistic and disappointment is sure to follow. This stage of the development is much better suited and more rewarding for dreamers who trust their own judgement and neither need or demand impossible confirmations.

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        If we are frustrated, I wonder how must Dr Rossi feel… He is fighting for what he believes is the truth, it has never been pretty for him. We should be consistent with what we choose to believe, too.
        Those of us who can no longer be bothered simply with reading the news, had better ‘take a break’, as you say.
        Mats took a difficult decision on the Symposium, but, IMHO, the right one.

        • roseland67

          Rossi is fighting for $$$$$ only, period.
          He could have set up an Ecat at MIT or Argonne, NASA or Fermi labs anytime if he was only searching for “truth”.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Fat chance of that happening.

            Rossi just isn’t in their club.

            Form 2012:

            “Rossi is an idiot,” Forsley said. And yet: “It’s entirely possible—I think it’s highly improbable—that he actually managed to scale up Piantelli’s work,” Forsley said. “It’s possible.”
            http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-10/andrea-rossis-black-box

          • Lawrence Forsley is a competitor with a product of his own in the market, so dismissal of Rossi was and is to be expected, aside from his MIT connections. Some recent discussion on the Always Open thread:

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/10/26/always-open-e-cat-world-thread/#comment-2624069330

          • wpj

            Truth from MIT? Joking, eh? Nice place though.

          • GreenWin

            MIT?? The bastion of boondoggle science?? A black hole for tax dollars.

          • roseland67

            Are you somehow suggesting that if MIT engineering dept was given Rossi’s build instructions, recipe, method of operation etc they could not replicate?

      • Pweet

        He SAYS the only way his tech will be confirmed is through products in the marketplace. He says, “The market will decide.” And yet he has always refused to allow one to enter the market-place, even though his agents have arranged for exactly this to happen. Mr. Rossi has never supplied one.
        Why not?
        For Mr. Rossi to continue with his program, I think he knows very well it is essential none of his ecats get into the open market where critical tests can be done on them. So, in the five years in which they have supposedly been ready for market and advertised for sale, not one has been supplied to fill a genuine sale unconnected to the Rossi camp. Not one. There has to be a reason for this,

        • Engineer48

          I have started the process.

          • wpj

            I’m impressed!

            Will it be for steam or thermal transfer fluid (assuming that it will work with that)?

        • bachcole

          1st: You don’t know this for a fact, as Engineer48 said below.
          2nd: If what you say is true, why won’t he take your investment money?
          3rd: He is on the verge of selling units, yet you are too impatient and too happy to slam him without waiting a few months to see what happens; what possible harm is there to you if you wait patiently. We know what he has been doing.

          Like you, I hope to see some confirmation that he has sold 3 units to someone, and “Rossi says” will not be confirmation for me.

        • LarryJ

          There are reasons that he has not yet sold products to non-affiliated customers.

          The first and biggest reason is that he does not yet have a product in mass production for the market. Your comment states

          “So, in the five years in which they have supposedly been ready for market and advertised for sale”.

          This is simply not true, not over the last 5 years or even over the last year. He has been taking unpaid pre-orders for years but they have never been advertised and he has always been clear that these pre-orders will get priority once he has product for the market. He is now taking commercial orders but he will be carefully vetting the orders that he accepts. The recent test of the 1MW reactor was intended to provide a prototype that would prove the commercial viability of the product. The customer that purchased this first reactor was retained by Rossi so it is safe to say that he had some kind of prior relationship with them.

          You have to keep in mind that he has only recently managed to get his first patent approved so out of necessity he has had to be very careful about not letting his tech fall into the wrong hands. The current dispute with IH clearly demonstrates the need for caution. When you start talking about a tech worth trillions of dollars the veneer of civilization wears very thin indeed. If he had allowed unrestricted access to just anyone, they would have immediately reverse engineered his invention and applied for patents. As a result his tests were performed by highly qualified and carefully vetted parties that he trusted enough to perform the tests and not steal the tech. We think he trusted IH and although we don’t know IH’s side, it is clear to all that it did not end well.

          Rossi has always stated that he intends a massive production and sales at a price that will make reverse engineering his products futile. In other words he plans to flood the market. This policy will help protect his IP and it will make the introduction less disruptive since any business that wants one can get one within a reasonable period of time and not be bankrupted by competitors that were ahead of them in line. However, preparing for such a massive production is not a small or simple task. It is like Elon Musk saying that before he sells a single car he will build 10,000 of them to immediately satisfy demand and discourage competitors. Fortunately an ecat reactor core is at least an order of magnitude less complex to build than a car so once his production facilities are in place he will churn out quarkx reactor cores like they were popcorn. Even then the production of end use products will probably be left to OEMs and that too will take time to organize.

          It sounds like a long wait but Rossi is now building his production line and has said that he expects to build the first quarkx based prototype reactor this year. Things are happening.

    • chemist

      I totally agree. This is just a long series of delays.

      • Engineer48

        Whst delays?

        Leonardo Corp’s 1MWt 120C steam Min COP 6 plant has been on the market for over 1 year.

    • Engineer48

      Please contact Leonardo Corp to order & pay for your 1MW ECat reactor.

      I did and are moving forward to make the delivery happen.

      If you expect an ECat reactor to just appear on your doorstep without any action on your part, well you may be disappointed.

      • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

        So you ordered a 1MW ECat? What they told to you? Delivery date? etc. Thanks

        • Engineer48

          Not yet ordered. Still in discussion. Soon though.

          • NT

            How do you square this statement from Rossi?

            Frank Acland

            April 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM

            Dear Andrea,

            You have said that you have many back orders of industrial plants, but how many companies/organizations are you actively working with to build and deliver plants for?

            Many thanks,

            Frank Acland

            Translate

            Andrea Rossi

            April 16, 2016 at 9:32 PM

            Frank Acland:

            One.

            Warm Regards,

            A.R.

          • bachcole

            Simple. One squared equals one. I would have thought that you already knew that.

            (:->)

        • Engineer48

          My requirement is not that of JM nor normal heat client. So a few discussions are occuring.

          So far no road blocks nor deal breakers.

          Leonardo respond rapidly & with excellent technical understanding of my requirements.

      • Pweet

        Just out of curiosity, what are you going to do when he asks you for the million dollars?
        Will you pay it?
        I think the procedure is it goes into escrow until delivery is made and it is tested and ‘works’.

        • Engineer48

          Yup.

      • Buck

        Engine48,

        is your business of the sort where your Brand might gain from being known to use Green Energy? Or are you going to keep it secret for now so as to maintain a price advantage due to lower cost of goods sold?

        Also, are your sales “Business to Consumer” or “Business to Business”?

      • HHiram

        – Is your company purchasing the system, or are you paying as an individual?
        – Will you publicly test the system with the aid of R1 university scientists and publish the results in a major peer-reviewed journal?
        – When will you disclose your (or your company’s) identity?

        It would be nice if what you say is true about ordering an ECat system, but many people make up fantasies here.

        I personally have lost patience with Rossi’s quest for control of this technology and the riches that come from it. This technology is too important for the inventor to squabble about the money coming from it. If it is true, Rossi will have millions from prizes and honors anyway – that plus his fame for the invention of the century should be enough to satisfy anyone.

        If your company can play a role in proving to the world that the technology is real, that will be a service to humanity of enormous value. You will be remembered for all time.

        • Engineer48

          Nothing is ordered yet. Still talking. Slowly getting more and more technical.

          As for testing, I don’t really care what is happening inside the box. All that is important is the COP, operational interface, steam quality and reliability. Doing those measurements is not difficult.

          I’m not the customer. Working as a consultant to fix an existing issue for a client who will not be going public nor will there be any data published. This is about my client gaining a commercial advantage as against others. The last thing they want is for others to figure out how they have reduced their operational costs.

          For sure my clients money will not be at risk, as Leonardo’s ECat needs to meet or exceed many specifications for Leonardo to receive their payment. Just standard contract 101 stuff. Of course we will do due diligence checking before signing any contract. Which will include visiting a working ECat plant.

          This is how the real world of business works.

    • Belly up to the bar, JC and buy your own Ecat for a few millions. We would like to then hear your story.

  • Karl Venter

    So how do we get to see the erv report
    Rossi lawyer does not want to release it – too much risk of groups( Like Us) finding fault with it and IH would then use it against Rossi.
    So IH should release the report in their rebuttle / response to the lawsuit – cant say the report is bull if you dont produce it?
    But this may not be good for Rossi so better that they(Rossi) release first and prepare for the possible negative impact it could have on their case.
    We can only speculate and wait

    • Engineer48

      There are reported to be 18 volumes of so far unreported evidentiary data to be released by Leonardo’s legal team.

      Would suggest their release will be timed to achieve the max benefit to the claimants.

      • Karl Venter

        or IH releases erv report with minimum benefit to Leonardo

        • Bob

          We need to remember….those few of us on this blog make no difference at all to the lawsuit. Releasing it or not releasing makes no difference. It will be presented in court.. Just like all the OJ news, the decision will be made in court not in the public “blogoshpere”
          .
          IH will not release information as that has never been their mode of operation. LIke most professional companies, they do not conduct legal business in the public arena. What other CEO do you see publishing remarks about snakes and clownery? (Other than perhaps Trump!)

          • Engineer48

            Unlike every other LENR wannabe, Leonardo Corp have placed on the market a 1MWt LENR reactor with a min COP of 6 & 120C steam.

            http://ecat.com/ecat-products/ecat-1-mw/ecat-1mw-technical-data

            I’ve started the process to order & get delivery of my 1st 1MWt ECat reactor.

            What about you?

          • Bob

            Thanks for sharing about ordering the product. I will await with great anticipation your reports of how the binding PO, with a binding delivery date from Leonardo Corp. comes along. I would ask that Frank start a running post similar to the Steorn / Orbo so you can provide continual updates.
            .
            It is refreshing that we have a customer (you) that is not concerned about NDA’s and keeping behind a shroud of mystery. Once your PO has been accepted, with a binding delivery date from Leonardo Corp, you can share it on this site and the eCat story will have taken a HUGE leap forward.! And you will be one of the first recognized entities in history to help usher in a revolutionary energy source. You will have made a mark in history!. Rossi will not have to worry about a customer being concerned with “the hurricane of the blogoshpere”, and he can use your PO as an open advertisement!
            .
            On the other hand, if you do not get a binding delivery date from your official PO, I am sure you will communicate that and list the reason Leonardo Corp. gave you.
            .
            Either way, I appreciate your experience will be very enlightening in this story. We await to hear back. Rossi stated installation within 180 days. You should have a binding commitment back within a week I would think. Please keep us advised..
            .
            P.S. What type of industrial application does your company intend to use the eCat? What type of preparations are you having to make? Have you had any issues with local zoning and OSHA rules. These are all subjects of great interest and your reporting of this implementation will be ground breaking and of great interest!.
            .
            Thank you and I look forward to your reports!.

            Sincerely.

          • roseland67

            Engineer48,
            Rossi has “started the process of developing an Ecat”, that doesn’t mean it will ever get done.
            And I will wager you won’t order, see, test, or witness a working Ecat in the next 10 years.

      • Alex Fenrick

        I wouldn’t make that assumption quite yet. I guarantee IH has some impressive lawyers that know what to expect with the report….the release of the report has become quite the mystery…

        • Roland

          And exactly what puts you in a position to ‘guarantee’ the capabilities of IH’s legal team?

          We can infer that that they can afford excellent lawyers but your assertion puts you on a very different plain…

          Then again you may be making a Trumpian assertion, i.e. essentially meaningless.

          Still, the tenor of your general commentary does suggest a particular interpretation and, possibly, and an explanation for your sudden and persistent presence in our ranks.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Roland…this is ALL speculation at this point…including anything from you. Saying I “guarantee”… is nothing more than a figure of speech…I don’t think anyone else would take it any other way logically. I honestly am not trying to belittle you, but you DO understand the difference between a figure of speech and a literal statement? OF COURSE no one in their right mind would LITERALLY guarantee something about someone else’s lawyer….I can’t believe I am even explaining this. My point that was obviously missed is that IH most likely knows everything in the ERV report of course, so they know what to expect when it comes time to address the report. Because you missed my point, the rest of your comment does not apply of course. I was also unaware there were “ranks” here which I evidently need to go through before I am allowed to comment on this site…at least according to your rules.

          • psi2u2

            You did not state it as speculation. You wrote:

            ” I guarantee IH has some impressive lawyers that know what to expect with the report.”

            If you have a material interest, as your statement implies you could, you should disclose it now and stop bullshitting your readers. If it is just that you happen to know who these lawyers are and how good they are, you might wish to explain how rather than contradicting yourself from one post to the next. If you are not actually in a position to “guarantee how good IH’s lawyers are and are actually just, as you now claim “speculating,” then you should learn to stop pretending to know more than you do.

            Readers on this site do their due diligence, including on you.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Psi…I already pointed out it was nothing more than a figure of speech..for some reason you and Roland took it as a literal statement. You are just being antagonistic at this point in chastising me over a figure of speech. Everyone in here is speculating at this point…I explained it quite well to Roland.

      • Omega Z

        Andrea Rossi
        April 13, 2016 at 5:30 PM

        Patrick Ellul:
        The Report will be published after it will have been disclosed in the Court.

    • Omega Z

      The last word from Rossi was it will be published after it is presented in court proceedings. We’ll have to wait and see if that’s in entirety or a truncated form

  • LarryJ

    They have already shown it to the public. Many times but nobody will ever believe it. Only products will convince the public.

  • g

    I dont get it. Rossi seems to both care and not care if people believe his invention works. If he cares, why doesnt he show to the people how it’s done. If he doesnt care, why does he even bother? Makes no sense to me

    • Engineer48

      Don’t get what?

      Leonadro Corp have placed a 1MWt, 120C steam, min COP 6, LENR reactor on the market.

      If you wish to purchase a unit or more you can do so and get delivery.

      There are published petformance specifications the plant should achieve plus the plant is stated to pass all necessary compliance conditions.

      Of course, as in any such purchase there will be a sales contract to bind & protect both parties plus some or all of the purchase monies placed in escrow with stipulated conditions for release.

      If you don’t need 1MWt of 120C steam then Leonardo Corp may not have anything to offer you.

      I trust this makes sense?

      • g

        Yeah, it makes perfect sense but it answers a different question. One that i didnt ask.

      • Alex Fenrick

        Whether or not said 1MWt LENR reactor actually does what it is is claimed to do is still an unanswered question. Only a company with much ignorance would gamble on buying one at this stage of this circus. We have a company selling the reactor that is in the early stages of what will probably be years of litigation….no product track record and no independent validation of proof of operation. From a corporate stand point….purchasing a reactor right now would be about the dumbest decision a company could make. They run the obvious risk of Leonardo not being around in a year….and investment in an untested uncertified unproven fringe cutting edge technology that even the inventor admits to not knowing exactly how it works from a molecular level. Just the infrastructural costs alone on such a gamble would be too risky. Definitely best for any interested party to wait to see if the reactor even works……

    • LarryJ

      Rossi actually gets at least as much from his blog as he gives. It is a source of ideas and information. He has many friends and supporters who are actively searching for relevant information which they do pass on to him. There are a number of scientists and engineers that also contribute ideas and links.

      It is naive to think Rossi can just show people how it is done without risking everything. He has been around the block a few times and he has a plan which he will follow. He is not a fool.

  • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

    So you ordered a 1MW ECat? What they told to you? Delivery date? etc. Thanks

  • Karl Venter

    or IH releases erv report with minimum benefit to Leonardo

    • Bob

      We need to remember….those few of us on this blog make no difference at all to the lawsuit. Releasing it or not releasing makes no difference. It will be presented in court.. Just like all the OJ news, the decision will be made in court not in the public “blogoshpere”
      .
      IH will not release information as that has never been their mode of operation. LIke most professional companies, they do not conduct legal business in the public arena. What other CEO do you see publishing remarks about snakes and clownery? (Other than perhaps Trump!)

  • Da Phys
    • Omega Z

      Gary Wright actually pulled that stunt twice. Once in Florida and once in Raleigh North Carolina.
      Probably he is at it again. You have to seriously question the mentality of people like that.

  • Da Phys
    • Omega Z

      Gary Wright actually pulled that stunt twice. Once in Florida and once in Raleigh North Carolina.
      Probably he is at it again. You have to seriously question the mentality of people like that.

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    The Chinese and Russian already have nuclear submarines. More interesting when LENR submarines appear in Iran and North Korea.

  • akupaku

    I have already said a couple of times before that there are powerful interests wanting to suppress this technology by any means possible mainly in USA and Europe. Even the 25 year long suppression and ridicule of LENR might be a concerted effort by the PTB. Similar tactics have been used on several other areas of research that might produce results that those in power do not like. For example, governments and intelligence agencies use main media and paid trolls on internet to drive public opinion in wanted directions. I would not be surprised if some of the most rabid skeptics that debunk LENR get paid for it.

    I don’t care who starts production with whom’s technology, be it IH, Rossi, Brillouin or somebody else. Just get something into production ASAP! Maybe the China connection pans out? Although there might be similar powerful interests in China for suppression, China is currently building over 20 new nuclear power plants which could soon be obsolete. There is a lot of money and power involved in that effort!

    Lawyers can fight their battles in courts afterwards, I don’t much care who wins or loses. Based on my own experiences the only good lawyer is a dead lawyer! Well, just kidding but not much, lol. ;o)

    • f sedei

      Very astute and wise observations and conclusions. I agree wholeheartedly. Something this huge brings out the worst of the worst. Rossi should strike while the iron is hot.

    • Gunnar Lindberg

      Akupaku, what planet do you live on?

      • akupaku

        Sorry, that is classified information, extraterrestrial presence on Earth has not yet been publicly admitted by governments. ;o)

        • Michael W Wolf

          The Anunnaki make sure of it. 🙂 Did you know our government in America has decided that the discovery of aliens would be so disruptive that they would NOT inform the public if that ever were the case?

          • cashmemorz

            Why disruptive? Do they have LENR technology?

          • Michael W Wolf

            Well, they said the religions would collapse so fast, it would cause chaos that the governments wouldn’t be able to control. Not that I buy it, but this was the thinking.

          • akupaku

            I guess you are referring to the 1950’s Robertson Panel Report that advised to keep aliens secret from the public. I think there has been similar reports after that. At least I remember Jack Nicholson shouting in a film “You can’t handle the truth!”, lol. ;o)

    • All agreed – if a little hard on lawyers.

      • Omega Z

        The only known shark repellent that works. Throw a Lawyer in the water.
        I never swim in the ocean without one. Their more important then a life vest.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Your perspective is more of a conspiracy theory than any fraud theories I have seen here yet! I see the term pathoskeptic used alot here by many posters to poke at the skeptics… no offense intended, but this post makes me think we need an opposite term in fairness. Something along the lines of pathosayer (pathological Rossi sayer) or pathofaither. What fits best as lock in step with pathoskeptic?

      • akupaku

        Haha, getting off topic but let’s see what the moderator thinks.

        About conspiracies, here is some more:

        the best slave is one who does not know he/she is a slave, who thinks he/she is a free man/woman living in a free country with free press and media and democratic government when in fact the country is really run by a shadowy military industrial complex and big banker plutocracy whose only goal is world domination and three letter agencies spy on the people and control the media to brainwash the population into alignment with their secret agendas. What a dystopian society that is! George Orwell would be thrilled to know that his vision actually became true.

        Hey, how does that sound for a conspiracy, lol? ;o)

        • Alex Fenrick

          Oh I am not saying our government and media do not have their hands in just about everything at some level…but IF the government or some secret organization wanted to shut down Rossi…they would go a MUCH different route than an a harassing compaint filed with an inspector. If we are under Orwellian control…they sure are bad at it if a filed complaint or carefully placed skeptics etc. are the best they have at stopping what would bring down “the system”. I just don’t see that being the case….but at this point in this situation I would believe about anything haha.

          • Michael W Wolf

            I agree 100%. Well maybe 90%. lol

        • Michael W Wolf

          At one time I would have thought you were out of your mind. Now, I think you may be frightfully correct.

      • The term of choice used by pathoskeps for anyone posting on this blog is ‘believer’ – as in cult member – but you wouldn’t win too many friends here by using it.

        • Michael W Wolf

          I have no problem being called a believer. After all I don’t know. Skeptopaths think they know and that makes my blood boil. Skeptopaths fit the term cult member more accurately.

          • bachcole

            We are just following the evidence. True believers and skeptopaths are very similar. They both want certainty at the expense of self-honesty. The true believer does have a positive attitude, and the skeptopath has a negative attitude. But they both believe in unproven things.

          • Michael W Wolf

            I in no way mean skeptics Bach. I am not really a true believer, as I have my doubts, I just don’t air those out as much, because I feel this is so important we should give the issue every benefit of the doubt.

        • bachcole

          I work very hard to track my credulity with the evidence. Being able to call people names is learned very early, like age 6, and is not a sign of a mature intellect.

      • Michael W Wolf

        No way. I see many many people here defending skeptics. skeptopaths are hostile against anything LENR, and need no facts to slander people. As long as you have doubts, that is healthy. Calling the likes of Rossi a fraud makes you a skeptopath. Saying Rossi MAY be a fraud is acceptable here and I have seen it.

        • Alex Fenrick

          I appreciate you spelling out the distinction…seems quite a few have not gotten your memo in that case as I have been called one numerous times. I have repeated over and over that this is all speculation…Rossi and/or IH may be fraudulent here…we don’t know at this point. I am yet to see anyone here defending skeptics……

          • Michael W Wolf

            Maybe not on this particular post. But you have a point Alex. Many times skeptics are mistaken for skeptopaths. Just like rational believers are taken for cult members.

    • James Andrew Rovnak

      Just reading “Dark Money” by Jane Mayer & the Oil Oligarchy guys are not very nice nor like playing out in the open!

  • Pweet

    Just out of curiosity, what are you going to do when he asks you for the million dollars?
    Will you pay it?
    I think the procedure is it goes into escrow until delivery is made and it is tested and ‘works’.

  • LuFong

    What country are you (or your company) in? Leonardo Corp currently (?) cannot sell in the US.

  • LuFong

    Most of us here have put in a pre-order for domestic E-Cats (I have 2) almost 5 years ago. I suggest you tone it down a little until you have something more definitive.

  • Buck

    Engine48,

    is your business of the sort where your Brand might gain from being known to use Green Energy? Or are you going to keep it secret for now so as to maintain a price advantage due to lower cost of goods sold?

    Put differently, are your sales “Business to Consumer” or “Business to Business”?

  • f sedei

    Very astute and wise observations and conclusions. I agree wholeheartedly. Something this huge brings out the worst of the worst. Rossi should strike while the iron is hot.

  • VisionandWisdom

    It looks like the question of does it or does it not work will have to wait until us stupid and self interested humans can stop fighting each other once again. Nothing ever changes :@(

    • clovis ray

      Keep that head up, the light at the end of the tunnel, is filled with the Rossi radiation, And it can be any color you want, this new fire puts off a new light, i call it Rossi Radiation, it is completely harmless, yet it will worm you if your cold, and one day it will grow up to be a great star, that will supply all our energy needs, and be as free as the air we breath,, just part of my dream, Dr. R,

  • Snowdog

    “…what would be the harm of having some inspectors check it out? ”

    Heh… that’s like asking, what would be the harm in having the police come and search your house?

    • Eyedoc

      Yep, there are dirty bad inspectors just as there are dirty bad cops… and it only takes one to throw everything in the shitter

      • Michael W Wolf

        Yes, there are good honest companies and there are those that the SEC rules against because they are immoral and operate outside the rules of fair play. Like IH.

    • Alex Fenrick

      I have had to deal with inspectors and certification experts for many years in more than one field. While they are a bit of a irritation, inspectors come with the territory…and if you have nothing to hide from inspectors…you have nothing to fear. This goes for tech industry across the board.

  • Zack Iszard

    The phrase “You can’t write this stuff” comes to mind.

    Frankly, I have to come right out and say that y opinion of Rossi has taken a nose-dive after he pressed charges on his benefactors for not giving him even more money. I woke from a dream, it feels, as I realize that without the vetting of IH, all we really have are Rossi’s own words and a sea of CYA.

    We can debate the intentions of the parties involved all day, guessing with our best collective theories of mind. To me, though, IH’s involvement was the most important aspect of Rossi’s credibility, and the only external voice consistently vouching for Rossi’s claims.

    IH is reacting in a way that makes it seem like they only just recently realized they’ve been duped, deliberately or otherwise. Speculation, yes, but it frankly seems most plausible. They responded curtly to Rossi’s lawsuit in a CYA fashion, and have remained quiet since. The fact that they’ve apparently reverted so quickly on their previous stance after several months of shaky relations with Rossi isn’t surprising if:
    – one of their engineers uncovered a significant systematic measurement error (SSME) that had been falsely validating performance claims, and that this engineer couldn’t explain away the possibility that this SSME had been ongoing for the duration of the 1 MW pilot plant trial. ANY DOUBT WHATSOEVER is enough for investors with many millions on the line to back out, including IH, and thus the lawsuit, which really is about the E-cat’s performance as claimed.

    The sort of conspiratorial thinking required to explain IH’s actions as a deliberate fraud of Rossi’s IP is less likely true than many of the presuppositions of the “pathoskeptics”. As much as I also abhor such a negative and incessant tone, Rossi IS playing straight into that narrative right now, all else unknown. I will go ahead and say that if Rossi settles out of court and never has to prove the E-cat in a more rigorous environment, I will feel that I wasted a large fraction of my hope for humanity. The fact that he selected a low-brow pro-bono law firm to defend him is very troubling, because they will likely run out of funds during discovery and force a settlement, which will almost certainly not involve a court ordered demonstration of the E-cat.

    Let’s say the E-cat works exactly as promised, and described in the ERV (of which we’ve only been privy to a sprinkling of the conclusions there-in). IH decides they don’t want to deal with Rossi anymore, or that they really wouldn’t want to pay him $89 mil now or ever, for whatever reason. Having secured the bulk of his IP (as of 2013) they migrate that IP to another holding of theirs and begin work under the table, while their legal team gears up to destroy Rossi’s claims and shew him away. What happens in 3 years when IH finally has a 1st release using some of Rossi’s IP? Would they hope to merely sweep under the rug any relation they once had with Rossi? That would be damning in the eyes of most potential customers, and as such is an unlikely strategy.

    I feel that Rossi’s claim here, about nuclear inspectors coming to sht the whole thing down, is more an appeal to his blogsphere than an actual identification of trouble, especially since any inspectors in the US would have no authority in the UK. If the E-cat produces no harmful radiation as we’ve been led to believe, then nuclear inspectors wouldn’t be a threat.

    This has been a long-winded way of saying that I believe alternate explanations of events besides “Rossi vs. The World” are at least worth considering. As far as I can see, the E-cat saga turned away from progress and toward more delays and hand-waving with the lawsuit. The partnership with IH was the best thing that ever happened to the E-cat! Ultimately, the E-cat, regardless of what version we’re dealing with, has to work without Rossi present. If IH had any doubt of this for any reason at all, that explains their resistance to paying Rossi his dues.

    • Buck

      You strike me as being an APCO astroturf troll looking to float a newer theory that will somehow lead us into a confused state of mind . . . leaving us unable to determine the truth. As part of this, you overlook many events that undermine your theory.

      I think IH’s inability to find a customer willing to test the 1MW Plant is a most telling point. Rossi finally acted and found an interested customer relatively quickly, at least as compared to IH’s effort. This simply sets the tone for IH’s intent from the beginning. And their filing of patent(s) pointing to duplication does not guide one to your interpretation. And of course, it is important to not ignore deeper history such as the Lugano report with its wildly unexpected (at least to us) results.

      • That seems quite possible. I imagine we will be seeing many more new, obviously intelligent, identities popping up with similar well written and superficially well-argued posts that tangentially accuse Rossi of fraud, or otherwise apparently try to drip-feed increased levels of doubt into these discussions.

        Apologies, ‘Zack’ if you are a genuine commenter. You make some valid criticisms, most of which have already been discussed here. Contrary to what many pathoskeptics assert, this blog doesn’t represent the church of saint Rossi, and most regular commenters are simply following what they believe is the balance of probability.

        • Buck

          Agaricus,

          I think the strangest argument of all is that of fraud, or to use the polite euphemism, credibility.

          The reason I say this is because of Rossi’s history in Italy. For better or worse, a serious investor will not ignore the mess of Petrol Dragon, the mafia, the corrupt legal system, and Rossi. It sets the investor on edge so as to be mindful of potential fraud.

          Therefore, it seems reasonable to argue that Rossi jumped through a lot of hoops with the different independent third party reports as well as the ERV tests under the mindful eyes of those looking to protect their money. Meaning that IH focused on ensuring that those who did the testing were “clean” as well as capable.

          And then we move into the 1-Year Test where with the assumption that as the utility invoices on a monthly basis, it was actually made up of 11+ independent monthly tests. And to push it, it was actually 352 daily tests given all the monitoring and accumulated data points for temperature and power in/out. All done under the 24/7 eye of those cautious about protecting their money.

          So, within weeks, maybe 8 – 12 weeks, they all were facing the fundamentally “crazy” performance of COP = +50. Equivalent to the displacement of about 98% of the power historically drawn from the grid.

          IH asks for substantiation . . . they had an additional ~8 months to substantiate the first 3. And given Rossi’s complaint, the overall performance continued to maintain the COP=+50 average.

          Did Rossi refuse to give IH or the ERV access so as to validate this “crazy” performance? That sort of behavior goes far beyond the broad term of “substantiate” towards fraud, a term IH was likely very sensitive to given Rossi’s already known history.

          Only time will tell how everyone behaved after the end of the 3rd month of the 1-Year Test.

          • Yes, fraud (Edit:- at least on Rossi’s part) does seem unlikely in the extreme at this point. The only thing that seems reasonably certain is that there is much more to this story than we can even guess, based on the very incomplete set of evidence (mostly ‘Rossi says’) that we have access to. As you say, time will tell.

          • Michael W Wolf

            IH sitting on their hands for 1 year deliberately breaching the contract is more than Rossi says. I mean if it wasn’t deliberate, then how incompetent is that? Risking 11.5 million of their investors money? But even though they didn’t find a test facility, they filed a patent where IH claimed to have built and tested a reactor of 11 COP. It is the only thing IH has claimed under oath of the patent. Everything else that followed honest people have to admit it seems IH is being dishonest. Fraudulent? I don’t know, but the contract problems we absolutely know about is on IH.

            The evidence that IH never intended a test or pay Rossi the 89 million is very logical here. For anyone to blame any of this on Rossi now is contrary to what we know. Now we find the SEC has ruled against Cherokee, pointing to the fact that IH and company are willing to play outside the rules of the game. There is something shady going on here and it all points to IH.

            Their public statement is meaningless, and what they claimed under oath so far supports Rossi’s adherence to the contract. We can assume Rossi breached the contract by not giving all IP know how to IH, but that is just hinted at in a worthless public statement, legally speaking. Rossi is being wrongfully ostracized and deserves better under the circumstances as we know it.

          • bachcole

            I’m confused. “IH sitting on their hands for 1 year deliberately breaching the contract
            is more than Rossi says.” What other source do we have? Did IH say that they were doing this? The contract went bad just a few weeks ago. Why do you imply that it went bad 1 year ago? And I don’t remember Rossi saying that they deliberately breached the contract while “sitting on their hands”.

          • Rossi has apparently accumulated a great deal of evidence (supposedly 18 ‘volumes’ – whatever that means), strongly indicating that he has been preparing his case for a lot longer than a few weeks.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Read the contract. It is a fact that IH did not meet their 90 day requirement in the contract to find a test facility. Technically Rossi could have sued then.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Maybe deliberately is my bias coming through. But they knew they breached the contract whether it was planned or they just failed to find a facility.

          • Buck

            Open question for one and all:

            What is the definition of the timely transfer of IP?

            Is it reasonable to cut some some slack for Andrea being in the shipping container for 16-18 hours/day, while evolving the E-Cat to the E-Cat X and then to the E-Cat QuarkX . . . All the while, saying that IH has the license rights to the new evolving E-Cat products?

          • Omega Z

            At this time, there is no E-Cat X or E-Cat Quark IP as it is still all R&D. However, according to the contract AND “Rossi says” on JONP, Industrial heat would have rights to that IP when the R&D is concluded as well as any other future technological advances. So speculation as to this being a problem has no bearing on the dispute. At least it Shouldn’t.

          • Buck

            OZ,

            I agree that when something is in R&D, there is no real pressure to share an IP that is not settled.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Rossi may have a case of technicality. I mean technically R&D may not be considered IP that he would have to transfer to IH until it is out of R&D.

          • Omega Z

            Actually Buck, We do not know what the “average” COP is. If I recall, the report indicated a large portion if the time it was COP>50. However, it doesn’t take much to chisel away from that number.

            The point is even a small error in calculations or instrument readings can put a serious whammy on the COP>50. It all evolves around the diminishing returns once you exceed COP>20. However, once at or below COP>20, it requires a much larger error to be off by much.

          • Buck

            OZ,

            if you read Paragraph 71 of the complaint, you will find Rossi’s presentation of the ERV results. This of course assumes Rossi is quoting accurately.

            Regarding the possibility of ERV error in measurement, time will tell how his methods stand up to scrutiny. However, for reasons stated in another post in this thread, I find it a challenge to entertain that this reported COP of +50 wasn’t critically evaluated beginning by the 3rd month if not sooner in the 1-Year Test.

            Of course, we wait for how all of this stands up in court.

            One thing I look forward to is the comparison of the mystery customer’s before and after utility bills . . . an economic test to the efficacy of the installed E-Cat.

          • Steve Swatman

            One could equally use your argument and put a serious whammy only a COP of 50, It may be that errors in instrument readings were hiding a COP of 60+, potential errors and arguments can work both ways.

          • cashmemorz

            That kind of attitude is a no-no for skeptics. For skeptics it all has to be negative. That is a definition of skeptic, otherwise they would be called optimists.

          • bachcole

            Pessimist is the opposite of optimist.

            Skeptopath is the opposite of true believer.
            Skeptic is the equivalent of scientist, which all of us here are, in spirit.

          • Omega Z

            Keep in mind that the maximum COP is limited by the necessity of power applied even during SSM. According to Rossi, even in SSM, approximately 1.3KW to 1.4KW are applied. In addition, SSM is not continuous and we don’t know the average percentage. If SSM is 75% of the time, COP is halved.

            Of course in Full context, COP is a fallacy. The E-cat has no COP any more then an IC engine.

          • Steve Swatman

            “COP is a fallacy. The E-cat has no COP any more then an IC engine.”

            Thats quite a strong statement there, is there any reason your on this thread? as you obviously don’t accept Lenr or Rossi’s work.

            One has to wonder why you would feel the need to follow Rossi and Lenr, comment on the followers idea’s and Rossis work, One has to wonder why you all came and waste your very important time on an impossible failure.

            In fact I find the massive amount of people who come to this site to be negative quite pitiful really.

            Who would spend their time following something they do not accept, do not believe and have no interest in listening to possibilities, how sad you all need to waste all that time to be negative.

    • cashmemorz

      IH has smart people running it. As such they mean something simple and elegant by “unsubstantiated”. That word means that something is as claimed but only needs further more definitive proof. By not paying AR, they are forcing his hand. AR is doing the substantiating by selling the E-Cats. When a few have reached several customers and have run for a few weeks or months, at that point the validity of the E-Cats function at or over COP 3 at a few customer installations is all that is needed. If this doesn’t happen AR losses everything and IH at least saves their last installment to AR.

    • clovis ray

      HI, Guys.
      I should think that is why the clause in recent documents say payment will be held in escrow until the unit is delivered, and is made to work,

    • bachcole

      “his benefactors for not giving him even more money.” It’s call a contract. You can look it up in Wikidpedia.

    • Omega Z

      As I’ve posted before, I was never fully on board with Industrial Heat. I gave them the benefit of doubt because Rossi thought well of them.

      However, with this dust up between them, more has come to light about Industrial Heat’s business practices.(Their MO) They create and make use of many (Name Here LLC’s) for different projects and make small investments(Mostly other peoples money**) in Brownfields. They then get others to foot the bill including tax payer backed issued bonds. 10’s of Millions.

      ** Mostly other peoples money primarily comes from mom & pop pension funds. Does Woodford ring a bell…

      Should things workout, they collect the lions share of the profit. Should it go bankrupt(AndMany Have), other Entities and the Tax payer are stuck for the cost of the party.

      Take Note:
      It was “NEVER” Industrial Heat’s intention to manufacture and sell LENR products. Their intent was to corner or obtain Intellectual Property then repackage it and sell either License or sell it to the Highest bidder. That is their MO. They do not produce or build anything. They are merely opportunistic exploitors as most all Venture Capitalists are.

      Don’t be concerned of Industrial Heat/Darden’s investment in Rossi. They done recouped their 11.5 Million$ from other investors. The same way they do with Brownfield projects.

      The numbers are fictious, but here’s how that works. I bought the manufacturing and marketing rights to E-cat for 11.5 Million. To get in on this, you need to pay me say, 50 M$ for 10% of my shares.

      It is an inopportune time for Industrial heat to have a positive outcome of the test. They do not have all their ducks in a row yet. They are not ready… They try to put the brakes on.

      • bachcole

        Nice. It is like they are a gold mining company and they don’t want the miner to go running around like some complete moron (which happened in 1848 in California when San Francisco became a temporary ghost town.) screaming at everyone that there is gold on the American River. They want first to buy up all of the gold fields and all of the privately own roads to the gold fields and all of the hardware stores that would service the gold miners before letting the world know that there was gold in the American River.

        If Rossi can prove that he has the invention of the ages before I.H. gets all of the trade secrets, that would spoil everything (for Cherokee).

        Did I get that right?

    • psi2u2

      “After he pressed charges on his benefactors for not giving him even more money.”

      No, it was after they did not fulfill their contractual obligation to make a payment to him. This is not at all the same thing as what you say. Had they a legitimate reason for not paying? Maybe. Maybe not. But your summary of the case prejudges it unfairly.

      • bachcole

        Perfect.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      I agree that the SSME option is not yet off the table. Especially, Rossi’s carefully adjusted waveform might be able to fool most meters, including those used by electricity providers. This would be a catastrophe, though, and that’s why many people do not even want to think about it.

      At least, if it could be shown that the output energy of the 1 MW plant was measured correctly, an error in the input measurement would seem unlikely, unless they had a line that was capable of delivering 1 MW of continuous power. As far as I remember, it has been said that they had only a 250 kW terminal. That could be verified easily.

      Regarding the output, a testimonial of the customer (the company behind JC Products) might be helpful. If it is Johnson Matthey or an enterprise of similar calibre nobody would doubt their statements, I think.

  • wonderboy

    I think the problem here is that those closest to Rossi stroke his ego and haven’t been truthful on how negative everything looks.

    While Rossi may not care and only customers matter, he only has one customer and it will take 6 months for 3 more units. So not exactly the customer demand to change the world :S

    • g

      Rossi wont change the world. Mfmp and me356 and all the good people replicating will

      • kdk

        It does matter who has the patent, beyond the moral arguments about “it belongs to humanity” or “he should be rewarded for his work”. Do we really, honestly, believe that oil barons would be working as hard to get the technology out to the world as somebody like Rossi?

      • Michael W Wolf

        Yes, thanks to Rossi and others.

    • LarryJ

      Rome wasn’t built in a day

    • wonderboy

      True, but more worried who will be the business brains of Rossi. Rossi is a PR nightmare, and I don’t see him as the tiger he thinks he is.

      So many people are against him, but worse so many blindly follow him, when there are so many Legitimate reason to question him with his inconsistencies.

      I think IH is worse to be honest, they never publicly backed Rossi, and keeping silent attitude is the corporate safe approach to be able to maneuver anyway for there own hidden agenda. So ip theft or dumping a lose canon once used doesn’t surprise him.

      • Anon2012_2014

        “more worried who will be the business brains of Rossi. Rossi is a PR nightmare, and I don’t see him as the tiger he thinks he is.”

        IH was on paper Rossi’s ideal match — the professional business management and fund raising to go with his creative genius. Now we know that the relationship soured at least one year ago, but with no further details as to why beyond he said/she said as in any divorce.

        Rossi received $10 mm of funding. That should have been enough to get to the next milestone. Milestones are standard practice for professional investors. Maybe the milestone was achieved (Rossi’s view in the lawsuit), or maybe it wasn’t (IH’s view in the responsive press release, waiting for the formal Answer to the Complaint).

        If Rossi did get to the next milestone — to be proven in court as opposed to speculated in these blogs — then IH was a bad business deal for Rossi and he should have gone with a different business partner.

        If Rossi did not get to the next milestone, IH was a good business partner and now Rossi is rationally scrambling to try and force a cash settlement when none is due (failed milestone) so as to continue his business.

        Rossi will need professional business management as shown by his random PR postings on his blog. His PR is an embarrassment.

        • Alex Fenrick

          Its all speculation, but I would say this is a very fair perspective and assessment.

        • bachcole

          Nice.

    • bachcole

      I had a really bad dream this morning. I dreamed that I was laying in the middle of a spider web that sort of surrounded me. I woke up. I realized that it was all in my head, sort of like your thinking that the problem here is that those closest to Rossi stroke his ego and haven’t been truthful on how negative everything looks. Without any evidence, your fantasy is about as real as my bad dream, but they are both equally negative.

    • cashmemorz

      Slow and easy wins the race. Just ask the hare who was resting part way through the race with the hare.

  • All agreed – if a little hard on lawyers.

    • g

      Rossi wont change the world. Mfmp and me356 and all the good people replicating will

      • greggoble

        Might Industrial Heat have replicated the ‘Rossi Effect’ and determined that Rossi has nothing new and they do not need his help or patents anymore?

        • Alex Fenrick

          Greg, priori/posteriori knowledge and/or justification is completely irrelevant to LENR patents…or any patents for that matter. That is actually why we have patents in the first place to establish a concrete basis to eliminate the need to ask the question. What would it add to the situation anyways?

      • kdk

        It does matter who has the patent, beyond the moral arguments about “it belongs to humanity” or “he should be rewarded for his work”. Do we really, honestly, believe that oil barons would be working as hard to get the technology out to the world as somebody like Rossi?

      • Michael W Wolf

        Yes, thanks to Rossi and others.

        • cashmemorz

          Its standard practice for any smart/successful entrepreneur. It’s called keeping a paper trail. Even when I started my career at the level of a lowly designer, the chief engineer where I started work after high school, strongly suggested that I follow his example and keep a detailed diary of anything that MIGHT BE important. One does not know which details are or will be important so everything gets recorded just in case. There were other prominent, successful people I knew, who did the same and suggested I do this.

    • Omega Z

      The only known shark repellent that works. Throw a Lawyer in the water.
      I never swim in the ocean without one. Their more important then a life vest.

      • Bear1145

        I have been following e cat since 2012. I have never posted here. I believe e cat works but I can not understand at this point in time, why Mr. Rossi does not publicly set up a secured demotration. He could have present reputable observers in a university lab and video the intire process to insure no manipulation of data takes place and other energy or power is present. To prove it works publically all that is nessisary would to deminstrate is power out is greater than power in. He would not have to disclose how it works just that it does work verified by the the reputable observers in the appropriate fields of science.

        • kdk

          That has been done already.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          Done many times, skeptics always find something wrong with demo. God could set up and run the demo and skeptics or those only interested in delaying/stopping LENR could find something wrong with demo. Only way is for a customer to come forward and tell the world how much money he is saving using LENR, then the free market would take over; big time.

          • Omega Z

            God could set up and run the demo.
            Obviously, skeptics would find God to be bias as Rossi has a known association with him.

          • cashmemorz

            Bringing religion into any discussion is just diverting attention away from the main topic, does Rossi’s E-Cat work as claimed. But since it has been introduced, may I say that the way religion works, if it works, is that one prays for a desired result and then waits. Here the bias against the almighty would show if god did intervene to somehow show that the E-Cat did work, then a sceptic could say it looks as if god is playing favourites with Rossi. With sceptics you can’t win, even, as you say, if god did intervene.

          • Allan Kiik

            Bulletproof demonstration can accelerate LENR research and people who are asking Rossi

            to do this can not be accused of desire to delay or stop LENR.

            Fact is there has been a lot of demos and all of them deeply flawed, each one with different flaws.

          • cashmemorz

            Problem with that viewpoint is that if one looks long and deep enough then even if god set up the demo a sceptic would still find fault.

          • Allan Kiik

            Nope, even god can not heat a gram of water by 1 degree without adding 4.18 joules of energy. Sparging the steam to pool of water of flow calorimetry without phase change with well placed thermometers can do the job. Rossi has never done this easy and obvious test. Maybe he still has what he claims (I hope so, because other option is sad), but until now we do not have such data.

          • Allan Kiik

            ” OR flow calorimetry “

          • Omega Z

            Rossi has done water calorimetry with thermometers.
            However, well placed thermometers are a matter of ones perspective. No matter how well placed, someone will have issues. There is no such thing as a Bulletproof test if there are those who don’t want them to be.

            There is only one way to do this. Products in the market and even that wont convince everyone. There are still Flat Earthers even today.

          • Allan Kiik

            I have a lot of experience with design and manufacturing of flow calorimeters for commercial district heating (and designing and buidling calibration rigs for certified testing labs), and I can assure you it is not a matter of ones perspective – there are well defined rules for placing thermometers and these rules work just fine.

          • Omega Z

            Pathoskeptics do not accept any rules or assurances should results prove positive. It does not matter the credentials. Any positive outcome labels you a quack. However, someone with zero credentials can proclaim no excess heat and be called a genius. Rossi could build a cubic foot self contained and looped system suspended in air in operation for years, They would merely claim instrument error.

            The only way to settle things is product to market. It will work or not.

          • Allan Kiik

            But why do you care what pathosceptics say or do not say, ignore them, they are not important, you really can not satisfy everyone on the net.

          • Omega Z

            Personally, I don’t care what pathosceptics actually think. It will have zero impact on Rossi and what he is doing. However, they must be under the delusion that it will have an impact. They are awfully pesky and persistent.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Allan is correct…flow calorimetry done correctly is very accurate and trustworthy being proven for decades in many industries. Rossi’s claims could be proven quite easily if he wished to do so.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Who is going to place the “well placed thermometers”, who is going to set up and run the “Sparging the steam”. The skeptics will have a field day with qualified operators, what if there is an under the floor source of power, how about that electrical plug they used, it could be rigged, the steam is not dry enough, who approved the whole setup, is he qualified, there is a diesel engine in the back supplying the power, on, and on it goes. Get a customer to say he saved X amount of money!!

          • Allan Kiik

            Personnel in the certified lab can do this, I can arrange the test and even pay for lab time and expenses if Rossi only agrees to provide a gadget. I have suggested this Rossi years ago, only result being that my posts to JONP go now directly to trashcan.
            I am still ready to do this, If you can persuade Rossi to cooperate by providing the gadget.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Who certified the lab? Who is going to certify (with financial bonds) no one will steal IP? Who are you, do you have “other” motives? What personnel in your lab, are they as qualified as the scientists Rossi has worked with?

          • Allan Kiik

            See, it is finished before starting 🙂
            State agency can certify the lab (btw, it is not “my” lab, I am only the engineer who designed the automation hardware and wrote most of the software) but no one can satisfy other requirements.
            There are no scientists in the lab, only metrologists and technicians.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Allan Kiik: Please, I do not mean any disrespect to you personally, I am just pointing out what we have been going through with “tests” over the last 5 years. There is simply no “test” that cannot be questioned and ridiculed by someone intent on delaying/stopping LENR.

          • Allan Kiik

            I have too followed all this since january 2011 and I do understand who-is-who, but fact is, Rossi is rejecting good proposals routinely, maybe he is a little too paranoid about his IP, or…

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Right, I do not understand his stance on protecting customers who could tell us what has or has not been saved, but I am not in his shoes. After five years of back and forth, I do respect the man, on many different levels. (except for tennis) (:

          • artefact

            “except for tennis”: Well, his wife is Italian. I don’t know much about the temperament of Italian woman, but maybe it is better to let them win 🙂

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Right! I put a piece of tape over my mouth when I play with my wife.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Man, go create something of your own and let people keep telling you how full of it you are. You are relentlessly inconsiderate. What are you like 12?

          • Omega Z

            “the temperament of Italian woman”, Perhaps you mean “the temperament of woman”

            No matter what you say, you’re wrong….
            From the background you hear “That Ain’t True”

          • cashmemorz

            This brings to mind, at what point does “definition of qualifications” for practical purposes become “nit picking” for skeptics purposes. Sure a test lab has to have certain qualifications or a history of dependability. But for some the qualifications can fall down just because of human frailty to become corrupted by payment for falsification of tests etc. I suppose this can happen, but we live in an imperfect world and have to live with such mistakes whether by accident or on purpose.

          • GordonDocherty

            High Energy Nuclear Reactions (HENR) are, indeed, dangerous. LENR, by its very nature, is a lot safer, as a simple measurement of radiation around and external to an LENR product would demonstrate – and has already been demonstrated (for example, those who worked in the 1MW container are still very much alive).

            In fact, going back over the years, it was the lack of High Energy Nuclear Reaction signatures that caused the mainstream to claim that LENR was not real at all…

            So, it is not LENR that will need to fit in with the regulations for HENR, but rather the regulations changed to fit in with LENR, and to distinguish between HENR (which is dangerous and always will be) and LENR (which is inherently safe).

            The sooner the regulators measure and characterize actual emissions from LENR systems, therefore, the better, for if the “developed world” drags its feet, with the promise of clean water, improved sanitation and cheap electricity, the developing world certainly won’t.

          • cashmemorz

            How does anyone “characterize actual emissions from LENR systems” if no such emissions are found to exist by the regulatory bodies? Do regulatory bodies ever take the time to characterize radiation that “actually ” is non-existent? Why would they bother with working on complaints about such things after the regulatory bodies find nothing there to work on? It’s like crying wolf, where there is no wolf. Those who propose such things are shooting themselves in the foot because if the time ever comes when a LENR system does “actually” show external ionizing radiation, the regulatory bodies may say, “it’s just another sour grapes complainant who doesn’t know when to stop complaining” and not treat the complaint with as much urgency as the situation may require, during which time people may be getting sick from said radiation. Best to keep complaints for incidents where both sides, believers and skeptics, can agree there is something to complain about.

          • GordonDocherty

            By continual monitoring and experience – and, if no emissions are found over an extended period, then it is reasonable to assume there are normally no emissions, unlike HENR. Using HENR measures to try to inhibit or prohibit the roll out of LENR makes no sense. As to “better to play it safe”, trying to live life “with zero risk” is the surest way to catastrophe (and insanity).

        • Lux Terrea

          Hey! I think I have a great idea. Lets have multiple tests with several different testers until it’s indisputable! No way! That’s a great idea and I’m not even a professor! Wow!

        • Roland

          Of course you want to start a war, why quibble.

  • kasom

    “The diffusion of the product in the market will resolve the problem,
    nothing else, not the chatters from anywhere. We have just to work,
    work, work.”

    We have heared this a hundred times during the last years. Sustantially nothing have show progress inspite of Rossi say between the many repetitions of this same sentence.

    We are turning in circles and when the reputable testing institut came out as beeing Penon again, we even knew, that we don’t have to expect that anything will change sustantially.

    Am I wrong??

    • LarryJ

      You are wrong. Rossi is taking one rational step after the other and each step brings him closer to products in the market.
      “Substantially nothing to show”

      1. Demo of a 1 MW reactor in 2011
      2. Ferraro ecat test published in 2013
      3. Lugano ecat test published in 2014
      4. Patent awarded in 2015
      5. Conclusion of a year long 1 MW commercial prototype test in 2016

      Some would argue that none of these steps were successful and I would argue that is why there is no such thing as an irrefutable test or demo. They convinced me and that is what matters to me. The fact that he is unwilling or unable to involve us in the process is irrelevant. If he were like any other industry then all of this would be happening completely out of sight. The fact that he shares any of it with us is a minor miracle for which I am thankful because he is the only player who will say anything.

      • bachcole

        Why do you call the 2013 Levi test the Ferraro test? I have never seen that word associated with the 2013 Levi test before.

      • Alex Fenrick

        While I don’t believe Rossi has proven anything at all yet by the items listed or anything else…I do agree with the rest of your perspective. Not only is it extraordinary that the public is privy to so much information regarding Rossi’s work, but that the public is also privy to quite a bit more detail than one would expect from someone who just entered into a lawsuit. While I am not sure it is the best idea at this stage for Rossi to continue to play into what is becoming a bit of a circus…I do honestly applaud him for being so forthcoming with the information he has shared throughout the process. I also will not call shenanigans on Rossi if he does decide to stop providing information as it would not be uncommon for a lawyer to suggest it to him at some point and would be completely understandable. You are correct…it is a minor miracle that he is sharing so much…

        • Michael W Wolf

          There is a fine line between proven and not proven. Did you know Quantum physics is not proven? But I know how you meant it. You could be right. I think deep down you hope you aren’t. I have been told that I am too trusting. But I remember something I was told when I was a kid. Confucius said. “he who trusts no one, can’t be trusted”. With that always on my mind, it has changed who I might have been I think.

          • Alex Fenrick

            You are correct Michael…I actually do hope I am wrong. I actually hope I get the opportunity for everyone to tell me “I told you so!” because that would only mean we actually DO have the technology to change the world the way we know it. Funny you mention that quote…my grandfather told me the same one when I was about 5. I try so hard in life to give everyone an honest chance…I just wish Rossi would stop giving me reasons to doubt him even if they are small odd ones lol.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    : “Little is revealed about the state of Piantelli’s work but the site mentions upscaling from watts to kilowatts.”
    http://energycatalyzer3.com/rossi/is-piantelli-close-to-commercializing-technology
    Bravo! Maybe we’ll hear more of the details of how Prof. Piantelli may have gone from watts to kilowatts.

  • Patrick Ellul

    @Frank time for a new survey about confidence in Rossi?

    • LilyLover

      Please make it a little bit encompassing.
      1. On percent scale, how confident are you in Dr. Rossi?
      2. On Verbal description:
      You think Rossi is – A. As right as ever, B. Somewhat deluded, C. Of questionable science and conscience, D. A fraudster, E. Sophisticated suer
      3. Yo think Tom Derden is – A. Immoral, B. Compromised by Govt, C. Threatened by Oil-slickos, D. Ruthless shrewd thief, E. Saint saving investor’s money
      4. You think IH was formed to – A. Isolate risks, B. bankrupt the LLC., C. Misdirect Rossi, D. A wanton misadventure, E. DFK-II

      Thanks for thinking about this poll.

  • Michael W Wolf

    I wrote this lower in the comments, but I think it is very important.

    IH sitting on their hands for 1 year deliberately breaching the
    contract is more than Rossi says. I mean if it wasn’t deliberate, then
    how incompetent is that? Risking 11.5 million of their investors money?
    But even though they didn’t find a test facility, they filed a patent
    where IH claimed to have built and tested a reactor of 11 COP. It is the
    only thing IH has claimed under oath of the patent. Everything else
    that followed honest people have to admit it seems IH is being
    dishonest. Fraudulent? I don’t know, but the contract problems we
    absolutely know about is on IH.

    The evidence that IH never
    intended a test or pay Rossi the 89 million is very logical here. For
    anyone to blame any of this on Rossi now is contrary to what we know.
    Now we find the SEC has ruled against Cherokee, pointing to the fact
    that IH and company are willing to play outside the rules of the game.
    There is something shady going on here and it all points to IH.

    Their
    public statement is meaningless, and what they claimed under oath so
    far supports Rossi’s adherence to the contract. We can assume Rossi
    breached the contract by not giving all IP know how to IH, but that is
    just hinted at in a worthless public statement, legally speaking. Rossi
    is being wrongfully ostracized and deserves better under the
    circumstances as we know it.

    Now what have I said here is wrong? Everyone talks about not speculating, but this is just some things we know. They said Rossi lied about knowing IH filed a patent and we found the law was changed and the accuser was wrong/deceptive. They said they believed IH was telling the truth when they implied they couldn’t replicate Rossi’s device, then we found the patent. Then Jed comes out basically calling Rossi a fraud and he recants. I mean am I the only one seeing the writing on the wall? It is IH that is doing what Rossi is accused of. It is Rossi critics that are doing what they accuse Rossi of. Rossi deserves better, he is the inventor until he is proven a fraud, especially when all the critics seem to say anything while Rossi works hard to improve mankind.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      “…under oath…” You churned up a 50 year old memory.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIsqYKDqY8

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Well, the act of IH investing in LENR and looking to purchase potential intellectual property
      rights (IP) makes sense. I mean they invested in Rossi because they believed him.
      Makes perfect sense as a company looking for return on their investments to
      look at other up-coming LENR companies and technologies.

      I mean, you likely could have purchased Google for a 1 million if you moved at the right time. Now a billion will not allow you to purchase google.

      So IH looking to obtain, control and purchase LENR technology makes perfect sense AS LONG as they believe in the companies and people they are investing into.

      For what reason would IH not seek out and purchase and attempt to obtain IP rights to LENR?
      After all that’s exactly what they did with Rossi.

      Cleary at some point in time IH changed their mind for whatever reasons and started to doubt
      Rossi and the ERV report. We don’t know the reasons for this change of heart,
      but such a change of heart clearly occurred in regards to IH

      So actions by IH at the start make perfect sense. And their change of heart in regards to Rossi and the ERV also makes perfect sense if one entertains the idea that IH does not believe
      the high COP claims in the ERV report.

      The most reasonable position here is that Rossi (like other LENR companies) has a working reactor, but not in the COP of 50+ range. So the initial tests of 24 hours and COP’s in
      the say COP of range would warrant internets and investments into LENR. And
      such 24 hours tests would satisfy that LENR is real.

      So actions of IH seem to fit the above this pattern. Hey, wow, this cool technology has great
      potential.

      We anticipated the ERV with great excitement not to prove that LENR works, but HOW well and HOW commercial Rossi’s technology is.

      Tons of evidence for LENR exists. This evidence has little to do with showing how commercially
      viable Rossi’s technology is.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Michael W Wolf

    I wrote this lower in the comments, but I think it is very important.

    IH sitting on their hands for 1 year deliberately breaching the
    contract is more than Rossi says. I mean if it wasn’t deliberate, then
    how incompetent is that? Risking 11.5 million of their investors money?
    But even though they didn’t find a test facility, they filed a patent
    where IH claimed to have built and tested a reactor of 11 COP. It is the
    only thing IH has claimed under oath of the patent. Everything else
    that followed honest people have to admit it seems IH is being
    dishonest. Fraudulent? I don’t know, but the contract problems we
    absolutely know about is on IH.

    The evidence that IH never
    intended a test or pay Rossi the 89 million is very logical here. For
    anyone to blame any of this on Rossi now is contrary to what we know.
    Now we find the SEC has ruled against Cherokee, pointing to the fact
    that IH and company are willing to play outside the rules of the game.
    There is something shady going on here and it all points to IH.

    Their
    public statement is meaningless, and what they claimed under oath so
    far supports Rossi’s adherence to the contract. We can assume Rossi
    breached the contract by not giving all IP know how to IH, but that is
    just hinted at in a worthless public statement, legally speaking. Rossi
    is being wrongfully ostracized and deserves better under the
    circumstances as we know it.

    Now what have I said here is wrong? Everyone talks about not speculating, but this is just some things we know. They said Rossi lied about knowing IH filed a patent and we found the law was changed and the accuser was wrong/deceptive. They said they believed IH was telling the truth when they implied they couldn’t replicate Rossi’s device, then we found the patent. Then Jed comes out basically calling Rossi a fraud and he recants. I mean am I the only one seeing the writing on the wall? It is IH that is doing what Rossi is accused of. It is Rossi critics that are doing what they accuse Rossi of. Rossi deserves better, he is the inventor until he is proven a fraud, especially when all the critics seem to say anything while Rossi works hard to improve mankind.

    • Alex Fenrick

      You are pretty much just perpetuating “he said/she said” …everything you mention is speculation at this point….we are ALL speculating! Many of us see different writing on the wall. I think it is far more logical that IH “sat on their hands” waiting for results that never materialized…so they pulled the plug at the end after giving Rossi his time to show success. No substantiation of claim…no check cut. Your perspective really holds no more water then the rest.

      • Michael W Wolf

        The patent contradicts your idea of “waiting for results”. They lied on their patent?

        • Alex Fenrick

          how does it contradict? Substantiation of claim in a contract is apples and oranges from a patent filing.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Alex, they said in their patent they built and tested an 11 cop reactor. Are you saying they lied? It is tied to a contract inextricably. So much so that they named Rossi as co-inventor. Did they not build the reactor as they said? Did they not test it like they said? did they not get 11 COP like they said? That patent claims it worked as Rossi claims. You think that patent won’t be admissible in court? You think a judge won’t ask them why they are contradicting claims they made in the patent. I beg to differ. Unless it is another issue that they have, then it will apply to the IP issues, not that the 1mw reactor didn’t work.

          • Alex Fenrick

            I am not saying they did not build the reactor…I am saying applying for a patent is apples and oranges from knowing if the technology works. There is no mechanism in the patent process to prove substantiation of an claims….it is not the focus of the system. The quote of 11 COP is nothing more than here say at this point and has nothing at all to do with a patent.

          • Frank Acland

            The patent application itself includes a claim of 11.07
            COP — http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/R_123621412_3.pdf

          • Alex Fenrick

            True Frank, but from my understanding, a claim of COP in a patent is nothing more than reference information that has no assumption of being confirmed or certified in any form as there is no mechanism to do so. A company can include estimates like that in a patent and it has no bearing on the patent itself…IH may have done this on faith or “Rossi says”. Not the smartest move…but a very likely one in my opinion.

          • Michael W Wolf

            I completely disagree Alex. It is not like the piantelli patent. IH patent says they actually had a reactor. IH contradicts their claims in their public statement. And that patent will be pertinent in court. Mark my words. And it is not Rossi says. They built it! A very important distinction.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Michael it is still irrelevant from a patent perspective. There is no mechanism in the patent process to validate or even categorize claims made within patents, therefore claims that are included are for reference purposes in understanding the patent mechanics. This just is not part of the scope of a patent in this context.

          • Michael W Wolf

            I know what you are trying to say Alex. I just don’t agree. 11 COP is not anomalous. And being that there is an oath taken, it is a hell of a lot more relevant than their public statement.

    • Thor

      Wait, what did i miss? SEC made a ruling against Cherokee?

      • psi2u2

        Not in this case, but in at least one other case.

      • LarryJ

        Some time ago and unrelated to Rossi’s case

      • Alex Fenrick

        Michael kinda unfairly blended in a completely unrelated case to bolster his point. There are very few, if any major investment groups that do not have some sort of ruling against them..it is very common and it really doesn’t prove anything in this context. In fairness, mentioning it at all, let alone attaching it to this case, is really is no different than pointing out the fraud conviction and jail time Rossi served in the past. All details aside… it is pretty much the same thing and is hardly evidence that IH never intended a test or pay Rossi $89 million.

        • Michael W Wolf

          SEC makes rulings to protect the public from dishonest companies. It doesn’t make IH dishonest, but it does point out that IH may not deserve the pedestal, some people have been putting them on. Add that to the fact that IH did not honor the contract by not finding the test facility, than you can see why some people think IH never intending to pay Rossi the 89 million as being dishonest and plausible.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Michael that is no different than Rossi’s fraud conviction AND jail time pointing at Rossi being a fraudster. You can’t have it both ways. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

          • Michael W Wolf

            From what I saw Rossi was sought after because of environmental issues. Once the Mafia controlled trash removal cartel found out, they pulled their strings and Rossi was looked into. Once that happened, Rossi’s investors pulled out a ran away leaving him to clean up which he couldn’t because he was broke with no investors to be found.

            Now if you want to look into the details of the Cherokee ruling by the SEC, be my guest. But the Rossi affair had extenuating circumstances, why you call it fraud is beyond me. BTW what Rossi was working on is now being used in waste to fuel processeses.

            So when it comes to Rossi I don’t think he deserves your fraud claim. But yet IH doesn’t seem to bother you because for some reason, you seem to want them to be the good guy, I want Rossi to be the good guy. I have better standing in my opinion. So far. So go ahead, tell me what Cherokee didn’t do to be slapped by the SEC.

          • Alex Fenrick

            I have read quite a bit about the situation as you describe it regarding the Mafia etc….but there are just as many compelling views that are quite different to consider. You seem to be convinced that I am cheering for IH for some reason even though I continue to point out that they may be lying to us in all of this as well. I will say it again right now to reiterate….I believe we have some dirty business going on both sides of the fence. Incidentally IH is holding it’s cards quite close to the chest not giving us much to point the finger at YET…but Rossi on the other hand is saying FAR too much in my opinion for his own good and the good of his case. Now we have, in my opinion, an interesting case of Rossi trying to direct public narrative with fake users. Not that doing so is a huge issue…but it is just another gift that Rossi leaves for skeptics to rightfully point out. I have NO like or appreciation in the least bit for IH…in fact I believe most of these types of investment firms are quite slimy and have no interest in technology…only return on investment. But my point still stands that most, if not all investment firms of this type and caliber have some sort of SEC ruling or strike against them at some point…it comes with the territory of the greedy investment industry. Using that in your argument when it is something so common in that industry harms your argument. With that being said…that greedy investment industry is what allows people like Rossi to even have the chance to develop a new technology no matter the outcome of this particular case…just a perspective to think about.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Fair enough Alex. You could be right. I did think you were a cheerleader for IH. Sorry if you are not.

          • Alex Fenrick

            I can absolutely see where I would have appeared to be an IH cheerleader rather than an actual past believer in Rossi who is just worn out by the circus and odd maneuvers. In all honesty, I can’t force myself to give up hope that maybe Rossi does have the goods…it is just so hard to ignore some things that have come about recently with my logic-obsessed mind. Either way, no matter what some think, I honestly believe all of this arguing back and forth on e-catworld is actually productive for the field. This has become the largest non-paid LENR research and investigation company in the world here haha.

          • clovis ray

            i will tell you, you have no proof if your actuations, have you any idea why he got turned loose, and why his idea that his government said was a fraud, is now a going concern up in canada right now, once again people trying to steal his I/P. and was to stupid to understand what they were looking at. he should get the recognition for the I/P to the petro dragon as well, but said he will give it to the people that is building it, not a prototype, a working factory. link- http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/06/25/edmonton-to-launch-waste-to-biofuel-plant-based-on-old-rossi-technology/

          • Alex Fenrick

            First of all where did I make accusations? I made a simple logic comparison…that is apples and oranges from posing an accusation. I have read both sides of the fence on this particular issue of his past and the fraud/conviction/jailtime. and I have not made it a speaking point because both sides have valid points and the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. There is absolutely no proof in your statements…only a completely one sided speculation from you.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Clovis….I never made any accusations…re-read my comment. Everything you just said is 100% speculation.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      “…under oath…” You churned up a 50 year old memory.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIsqYKDqY8

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Well, the act of IH investing in LENR and looking to purchase potential intellectual property
      rights (IP) makes sense. I mean they invested in Rossi because they believed him.
      Makes perfect sense as a company looking for return on their investments to
      look at other up-coming LENR companies and technologies.

      I mean, you likely could have purchased Google for a 1 million if you moved at the right time. Now a billion will not allow you to purchase google.

      So IH looking to obtain, control and purchase LENR technology makes perfect sense AS LONG as they believe in the companies and people they are investing into.

      For what reason would IH not seek out and purchase and attempt to obtain IP rights to LENR?
      After all that’s exactly what they did with Rossi.

      Cleary at some point in time IH changed their mind for whatever reasons and started to doubt
      Rossi and the ERV report. We don’t know the reasons for this change of heart,
      but such a change of heart clearly occurred in regards to IH

      So actions by IH at the start make perfect sense. And their change of heart in regards to Rossi and the ERV also makes perfect sense if one entertains the idea that IH does not believe
      the high COP claims in the ERV report.

      The most reasonable position here is that Rossi (like other LENR companies) has a working reactor, but not in the COP of 50+ range. So the initial tests of 24 hours and COP’s in
      the say COP of 3 range would warrant interest and investments into LENR. And
      such 24 hours tests would satisfy that LENR is real.

      So actions of IH seem to fit the above this pattern. Hey, wow, this cool technology has great
      potential.

      We anticipated the ERV with great excitement not to prove that LENR works, but HOW well and HOW commercial Rossi’s technology is.

      Tons of evidence for LENR exists. This evidence has little to do with showing how commercially
      viable Rossi’s technology is.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Michael W Wolf

        You may be right Albert. But IH did claim to build and test an 11 COP reactor. Isn’t that commercially viable?

  • greggoble

    Might Industrial Heat have replicated the ‘Rossi Effect’ and determined that Rossi has nothing new and they do not need his help or patents anymore?

    Who holds a priori in the world of LENR patents?
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/who-holds-priori-world-lenr-patentscold-fusion-patent-gregory-goble?trk=pulse_spock-articles

    The Latin phrases a priori (lit. “from the earlier”) and a posteriori (lit. “from the latter”) are philosophical terms of art popularized by Immanuel Kant’s Critique of Pure Reason (first published in 1781, second edition in 1787), one of the most influential works in the history of philosophy. However, in their Latin forms they appear in Latin translations of Euclid’s Elements, of about 300 bc, a work widely considered during the early European modern period as the model for precise thinking.

    These terms are used with respect to reasoning (epistemology) to distinguish necessary conclusions from first premises (i.e., what must come before sense observation) from conclusions based on sense observation (which must follow it). Thus, the two kinds of knowledge, justification, or argument may be glossed:

    A priori knowledge or justification is independent of experience, as with mathematics (3+2=5), tautologies (“All bachelors are unmarried”), and deduction from pure reason (e.g., ontological proofs).

    A posteriori knowledge or justification is dependent on experience or empirical evidence, as with most aspects of science and personal knowledge.

    There are many points of view on these two types of knowledge, and their relationship is one of the oldest problems in modern philosophy.

    The terms a priori and a posteriori are primarily used as adjectives to modify the noun “knowledge” (for example, “a priori knowledge”). However, “a priori” is sometimes used to modify other nouns, such as “truth”. Philosophers also may use “apriority” and “aprioricity” as nouns to refer (approximately) to the quality of being “a priori”.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Greg, priori/posteriori knowledge and/or justification is completely irrelevant to LENR patents…or any patents for that matter. That is actually why we have patents in the first place to establish a concrete basis to eliminate the need to ask the question. What would it add to the situation anyways?

  • Omega Z

    Andrea Rossi
    April 13, 2016 at 5:30 PM

    Patrick Ellul:
    The Report will be published after it will have been disclosed in the Court.

  • roseland67

    Engineer48,
    Rossi has “started the process of developing an Ecat”, that doesn’t mean it will ever get done.
    And I will wager you won’t order, see, test, or witness a working Ecat in the next 10 years.

  • psi2u2

    Not in this case, but in at least one other case.

  • psi2u2

    You did not state it as speculation. You wrote:

    ” I guarantee IH has some impressive lawyers that know what to expect with the report.”

    If you have a material interest you should disclose it now.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Psi…I already pointed out it was nothing more than a figure of speech..for some reason you and Roland took it as a literal statement. You are just being antagonistic at this point in chastising me over a figure of speech. Everyone in here is speculating at this point…I explained it quite well to Roland.

  • LarryJ

    Some time ago and unrelated to Rossi’s case

  • we-cat

    Is there anybody that has seen a nice timeline of the court case? When does IH have to file? First hearing, etc..

    Cheers,

    JB

    • Michael W Wolf

      Someone has said in Florida, IH has 30 days to respond.

      • Brent Buckner

        According to this:
        http://freeenergyscams.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/ToDo-1.jpg
        answer required in 21 days (not including day summons received, apparently April 6).

        • Michael W Wolf

          Thanks BB.

        • we-cat

          BB,

          Muchas gracias!

          JB

      • Brent Buckner
        • cashmemorz

          Missed the part where I stated that “it is very PROBABLE that he did based on that It is standard practice for any smart/successful entrepreneur” ? This means I have no way to confirm that he does this but, it would surprise me if he did not have a daily journal from which he could compile personal evidence against Industrial Heat. This kind of activity is my understanding of how things are PROBABLY done by Rossi. I am an ordinary blogger throwing out probable scenarios, not trying to come across as if I have actual personal knowledge of what Rossi does or does not do. Why would you think like that?

  • we-cat

    Is there anybody that has seen a nice timeline of the court case? When does IH have to file? First hearing, etc..

    Cheers,

    JB

  • LarryJ

    Rome wasn’t built in a day

  • we-cat

    ..and is there perhaps somebody that has more info on Rossi’s business plans? Around 30 staff, but what is his burn rate? Where are the offices? Open positions? New partners, etc..

    Cheers,

    JB

  • we-cat

    ..and is there perhaps somebody that has more info on Rossi’s business plans? Around 30 staff, but what is his burn rate? Where are the offices? Open positions? New partners, etc..

    Cheers,

    JB

  • LarryJ

    Rossi actually gets at least as much from his blog as he gives. It is a source of ideas and information. He has many friends and supporters who are actively searching for relevant information which they do pass on to him. There are a number of scientists and engineers that also contribute ideas and links.

    It is naive to think Rossi can just show people how it is done without risking everything. He has been around the block a few times and he has a plan which he will follow. He is not a fool.

  • The term of choice used by pathoskeps for anyone posting on this blog is ‘believer’ – as in cult member – but you wouldn’t win too many friends here by using it.

    • Michael W Wolf

      I have no problem being called a believer. After all I don’t know. Skeptopaths think they know and that makes my blood boil. Skeptopaths fit the term cult member more accurately.

  • Michael W Wolf

    The patent contradicts your idea of “waiting for results”. They lied on their patent?

  • Bear1145

    I have been following e cat since 2012. I have never posted here. I believe e cat works but I can not understand at this point in time, why Mr. Rossi does not publicly set up a secured demotration. He could have present reputable observers in a university lab and video the intire process to insure no manipulation of data takes place and other energy or power is present. To prove it works publically all that is nessisary would to deminstrate is power out is greater than power in. He would not have to disclose how it works just that it does work verified by the the reputable observers in the appropriate fields of science.

    • kdk

      That has been done already.

      • Bear1145

        The problem with the past observers was they were in one way or another, right or wrong, to close to the project itself. Their qualification were questioned. I am proposing using totally new observers who have no dog in the hunt and using a USA university such as MIT ,Ga. Tech,California Tech,Texas A M. Rossi could be present to insure no secrets were stolen and the observers could verify the results were not manipulated by hidden wiring. You could invite a reputable well known news organization to be present. 60 minutes comes to mine. They have already done a piece on this subject. Conditions of the test would be agreed to that protects Rossi and satisfiys the observers that no manipulation was intriduced.

        • kdk

          The observers were independent of Rossi, or rather they didn’t know each other, to my knowledge, prior to being approached about testing the E-Cat. The Lugano and Levi tests had some of the same people doing them. Penon did the 1 day test, iirc, and 400 day test. That doesn’t mean that they’re not independent.

          As to why he might not invite MIT people… they were accused of academic fraud by Eugene Mallove earlier on in the P&F days, falsifying data in order to get a null replication which would have been positive otherwise –and had vested interests in hot fusion research — which he believed enough to quit his job at MIT over. Bockris got accused of fraud at A&M only because his test showed above background levels of nuclear products. Maybe Rossi is worried about the same from scientists he perceives as having similar biases, or that most mainstream scientists don’t want to subject themselves to what P&F and Bockris were subjected to. The fact that the Levi and Lugano scientists weren’t from a major US university doesn’t disqualify them, but Uppsala and Bologna are highly respected institutions.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Done many times, skeptics always find something wrong with demo. God could set up and run the demo and skeptics or those only interested in delaying/stopping LENR could find something wrong with demo. Only way is for a customer to come forward and tell the world how much money he is saving using LENR, then the free market would take over; big time.

      • Omega Z

        God could set up and run the demo.
        Obviously, skeptics would find God to be bias as Rossi has a known association with him.

        • cashmemorz

          Bringing religion into any discussion is just diverting attention away from the main topic, does Rossi’s E-Cat work as claimed. But since it has been introduced, may I say that the way religion works, if it works, is that one prays for a desired result and then waits. Here the bias against the almighty would show if god did intervene to somehow show that the E-Cat did work, then a sceptic could say it looks as if god is playing favourites with Rossi. With sceptics you can’t win, even, as you say, if god did intervene.

          • bachcole

            “may I say that the way religion works, if it works, is that one prays for a desired result and then waits” I would call that a childish version of religion. Even my dogs can do better than that. They adore me without conditions, other than 2 squares and kindness from me.

          • cashmemorz

            Of course its foolish. Especially those of the religious bent who actually do that kind of praying and waiting. Then when no result is forthcoming they compensate for it not happening as they wanted by saying “god works in mysterious ways” or some such explanation, usually taken from bible text.

          • bachcole

            My dogs are the same way. When I flick the light switch on and the light comes on, they think “The master works in mysterious ways.” (:->)

      • Allan Kiik

        Bulletproof demonstration can accelerate LENR research and people who are asking Rossi

        to do this can not be accused of desire to delay or stop LENR.

        Fact is there has been a lot of demos and all of them deeply flawed, each one with different flaws.

        • cashmemorz

          Problem with that viewpoint is that if one looks long and deep enough then even if god set up the demo a sceptic would still find fault.

          • Allan Kiik

            Nope, even god can not heat a gram of water by 1 degree without adding 4.18 joules of energy. Sparging the steam to pool of water of flow calorimetry without phase change with well placed thermometers can do the job. Rossi has never done this easy and obvious test. Maybe he still has what he claims (I hope so, because other option is sad), but until now we do not have such data.

          • Allan Kiik

            ” OR flow calorimetry “

          • Omega Z

            Rossi has done water calorimetry with thermometers.
            However, well placed thermometers are a matter of ones perspective. No matter how well placed, someone will have issues. There is no such thing as a Bulletproof test if there are those who don’t want them to be.

            There is only one way to do this. Products in the market and even that wont convince everyone. There are still Flat Earthers even today.

          • Allan Kiik

            I have a lot of experience with design and manufacturing of flow calorimeters for commercial district heating (and designing and buidling calibration rigs for certified testing labs), and I can assure you it is not a matter of ones perspective – there are well defined rules for placing thermometers and these rules work just fine.

          • Omega Z

            Pathoskeptics do not accept any rules or assurances should results prove positive. It does not matter the credentials. Any positive outcome labels you a quack. However, someone with zero credentials can proclaim no excess heat and be called a genius. Rossi could build a cubic foot self contained and looped system suspended in air in operation for years, They would merely claim instrument error.

            The only way to settle things is product to market. It will work or not.

          • Allan Kiik

            But why do you care what pathosceptics say or do not say, ignore them, they are not important, you really can not satisfy everyone on the net.

          • Omega Z

            Personally, I don’t care what pathosceptics actually think. It will have zero impact on Rossi and what he is doing. However, they must be under the delusion that it will have an impact. They are awfully pesky and persistent.

          • Yes, very pesky. All these calls for yet another demonstration/public test??!. I can’t imagine why on earth Rossi would bother. If Rossi has something and can commercialize it he should just work on doing that. Swaying public opinion at this point with some demonstration/test is so unnecessary and a waste of resources.

          • Allan Kiik

            No, it is somewhat different proposal – no public test but a test in a specialized and state certified calibration lab, using well calibrated high accuracy instruments with metrological traceability to a international reference units. This might even be useful for Rossi in court, if he ever needs an independent proof of operability of the gadget.
            Maybe he already has such a proof, we don’t know, but nobody has seen it.

          • clovis ray

            YEP, it was called the one year test. Dr.R’s test, the customer satisfaction, and the ERV, All three concluded the test was valid,
            and very very successful.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Allan is correct…flow calorimetry done correctly is very accurate and trustworthy being proven for decades in many industries. Rossi’s claims could be proven quite easily if he wished to do so.

          • clovis ray

            AND HE DOES NOT.

          • Alex Fenrick

            If he truly does not wish to do so…then that is a true shame for his reputation, the industry and potentially the world if he does “have the goods”. If Rossi is not able to do so because of contractual or legal reasons…I respect that…but I would reject his position if your statement in yelling bold letters is true. All speculation either way.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Who is going to place the “well placed thermometers”, who is going to set up and run the “Sparging the steam”. The skeptics will have a field day with qualified operators, what if there is an under the floor source of power, how about that electrical plug they used, it could be rigged, the steam is not dry enough, who approved the whole setup, is he qualified, there is a diesel engine in the back supplying the power, on, and on it goes. Get a customer to say he saved X amount of money!!

          • Allan Kiik

            Personnel in the certified lab can do this, I can arrange the test and even pay for lab time and expenses if Rossi only agrees to provide a gadget. I have suggested this Rossi years ago, only result being that my posts to JONP go now directly to trashcan.
            I am still ready to do this, If you can persuade Rossi to cooperate by providing the gadget.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Who certified the lab? Who is going to certify (with financial bonds) no one will steal IP? Who are you, do you have “other” motives? What personnel in your lab, are they as qualified as the scientists Rossi has worked with?

          • Allan Kiik

            See, it is finished before starting 🙂
            State agency can certify the lab (btw, it is not “my” lab, I am only the engineer who designed the automation hardware and wrote most of the software) but no one can satisfy other requirements.
            There are no scientists in the lab, only metrologists and technicians.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Allan Kiik: Please, I do not mean any disrespect to you personally, I am just pointing out what we have been going through with “tests” over the last 5 years. There is simply no “test” that cannot be questioned and ridiculed by someone intent on delaying/stopping LENR.

          • Allan Kiik

            I have too followed all this since january 2011 and I do understand who-is-who, but fact is, Rossi is rejecting good proposals routinely, maybe he is a little too paranoid about his IP, or…

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Right, I do not understand his stance on protecting customers who could tell us what has or has not been saved, but I am not in his shoes. After five years of back and forth, I do respect the man, on many different levels. (except for tennis) (:

          • artefact

            “except for tennis”: Well, his wife is Italian. I don’t know much about the temperament of Italian woman, but maybe it is better to let them win 🙂

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Right! I put a piece of tape over my mouth when I play with my wife.

          • Omega Z

            “the temperament of Italian woman”, Perhaps you mean “the temperament of woman”

            No matter what you say, you’re wrong….
            From the background you hear “That Ain’t True”

          • cashmemorz

            This brings to mind, at what point does “definition of qualifications” for practical purposes become “nit picking” for skeptics purposes. Sure a test lab has to have certain qualifications or a history of dependability. But for some the qualifications can fall down just because of human frailty to become corrupted by payment for falsification of tests etc. I suppose this can happen, but we live in an imperfect world and have to live with such mistakes whether by accident or on purpose.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Then people will say you were paid off and you would realize how hard it is to undue the six degrees of separation.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Bernie…a tester who has NO connection to Rossi or IH would do just fine. That is what most of us have been saying all along. A tester who has connections to the inventor or financier is not a valid tester in the context of proof of claim. It really would be quite simple for Rossi to prove his claim in a controlled environment among peers with an independent tester observing and recording results…and no historical shenanigans that make things look fishy. I am yet to hear a valid excuse as to why Rossi could not do something like this.

          • Michael W Wolf

            They did. It was ponns and Flieschmann. You saw what happened. The problem was, the so called independent people did not want it to be so. it killed LENR for near 30 years. LENR must produce enormous amounts electricity, something that is incontestable and Rossi claims to be on the verge. Then we can do what you are suggesting. I have my fingers crossed.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            We have learned there is no such thing as “an independent tester” skeptics could turn “an independent tester” into an incompetent “nut case” just by saying someone else said he was a “nut case”

          • Alex Fenrick

            Bernie a small panel of testors that do not have direct known connections would be sufficient for me and I believe most of the “pathoskeptics”. Some might find indirect connections….but a panel would offset it enough if any popped up. If the testers would chosen honestly no more than an indirect connection or two would logically exist. I really would just have to be about a panel rather than one connected individual….nothing more.

          • Ted-Z

            Related to Rossi or not related, an opinion from an engineer is valid. Otherwise you are suggesting that the ERV engineer committed a fraud. Engineers have their rules of conduct and professional associations. Most engineers would feel offended with your posting. In the USA, the PE (professional engineers) have a strict code of conduct.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Ted while you are correct in your statement regarding engineers…it does not apply in this case. The reason is that I am not necessarily saying that the ERV is maliciously fraudulent, I am saying the connection to Rossi and evidently IH (as many have said IH approved the EVR after knowing Rossi was connected) is what causes the absolute conflict of interest.

          • clovis ray

            alex, you don’t seem to get it, he don’t care what you think, its the least of his worries, HE SAID THERE WILL BE NO MORE DEMO’S,

          • Alex Fenrick

            Oh I get it Clovis…I just happen to believe it is another bad decision in a line of bad decisions by Rossi. It is of course his prerogative…but it does not detract in any way what I said. Rossi has made it evident that he does care about the “court of public opinion”…and I was just pointing out a simple non-expensive way for him to embrace that. The fact that he has put his foot down is irrelevant to my point.

          • bachcole

            I am a skeptic concerning physical matters, and will be until the day that I die. I believe that we should use the word “skeptopath” when referring to those who simply won’t believe no matter the evidence, or even better, refuse to look at the evidence.

          • Michael W Wolf

            They serve only to keep the world from moving forward. Always have, always will. They create nothing and get their fuel from those who are would be creators.

        • clovis ray

          There always will be flaws, NO MORE DEMONSTRATIONS, he does not care what the public thinks, he has an agenda, that is to get the cat out to them, as soon as possible, the people will believe when they have their own cat, and i believe Dr.R is our best hope to get one quickly, as I/H may be completely out of the picture, but for Dr.R it is full steam ahead, or a full head of steam, trying to get this train moving, Dr.R can we help in anyway, please ask, as we have many very intelligent folk here, that want to assect.

      • bachcole

        The Universe is a demo and reflects the state of consciousness of the viewer.

      • LarryJ

        You almost got it right until you hit the part where you said a customer testimonial is the answer. I bet you believe all those customer testimonials you see on TV, especially if its from a reputable movie star. I think the customer should have Brad Pitt do the testimonial since we already know he’s an investor in the tech. The people would surely believe Brad.

        A customer testimonial ain’t worth a pinch o shit. Any testimonial would simply be declared a part of the bigger scam. You’re dreaming. Only a product anyone can buy will convince anyone.

        • cashmemorz

          It is even difficult to separate the straight forward ads from the Public Relations pieces shown as if they are actual news items shown between “real” news like car accidents and bombings in war zones. “And now we have a bit of “news” about a new process from an Italian American who has purportedly made a device that can produce more energy than put in…..” Would that last bit in parentheses be considered news or an advertisement?

      • clovis ray

        Hi, Bernie,
        I think Dr.R, need’s time to get his cat to market, just a little more,
        If you expose the e-cat to the public, right now, they would be millions saying i want,my e- kitty, they already have a lot of cats to get out of the door that just would not be the correct way to roll out his machine, he has to at least wait until they have the factory going. and can predict, a date for delivery.

    • Lux Terrea

      Hey! I think I have a great idea. Lets have multiple tests with several different testers until it’s indisputable! No way! That’s a great idea and I’m not even a professor! Wow!

    • clovis ray

      Nope, won’t work, there has been a half dozen demos, the skeptics still want more , Dr. Rossi said no more demo’s, only product’s will validate. so they are working hard to produce as many as possible, until their factory goes into production, GO, Dr,R go.

  • Anon2012_2014

    “more worried who will be the business brains of Rossi. Rossi is a PR nightmare, and I don’t see him as the tiger he thinks he is.”

    IH was on paper Rossi’s ideal match — the professional business management and fund raising to go with his creative genius. Now we know that the relationship soured at least one year ago, but with no further details as to why beyond he said/she said as in any divorce.

    Rossi received $10 mm of funding. That should have been enough to get to the next milestone. Milestones are standard practice for professional investors. Maybe the milestone was achieved (Rossi’s view in the lawsuit), or maybe it wasn’t (IH’s view in the responsive press release, waiting for the formal Answer to the Complaint).

    If Rossi did get to the next milestone — to be proven in court as opposed to speculated in these blogs — then IH was a bad business deal for Rossi and he should have gone with a different business partner.

    If Rossi did not get to the next milestone, IH was a good business partner and now Rossi is rationally scrambling to try and force a cash settlement when none is due (failed milestone) so as to continue his business.

    Rossi will need professional business management as shown by his random PR postings on his blog. His PR is an embarrassment.

  • Michael W Wolf

    Read the contract. It is a fact that IH did not meet their 90 requirement in the contract to find a test facility. Technically Rossi could have sued then.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Oh I am not saying our government and media do not have their hands in just about everything at some level…but IF the government or some secret organization wanted to shut down Rossi…they would go a MUCH different route than an a harassing compaint filed with an inspector. If we are under Orwellian control…they sure are bad at it if a filed complaint or carefully placed skeptics etc. are the best they have at stopping what would bring down “the system”. I just don’t see that being the case….but at this point in this situation I would believe about anything haha.

      • Michael W Wolf

        I agree 100%. Well maybe 90%. lol

        • psi2u2

          I have to admit that this thought entered my mind also when I read it.

          • Alex Fenrick

            I believe no matter what the real story is in all of this….we just got the story that Rossi wishes to be perpetuated directly from the “Jacky” comment. The more I read it…the more I am firmly convinced it is Rossi in disguise. Im not saying this is a smoking gun of any kind by any stretch of the imagination…just really interesting to see what perspective Rossi wishes to be spoken about or at very least casually dropped in. Interesting…

      • LarryJ

        The test was performed in Ferrara Italy, typo on my part. I have seen it referred to as such and since the Lugano test is named after the test location I just figured it was a de facto convention.

        http://kb.e-catworld.com/index.php?title=Third_party_E-Cat_test,_Ferrara,_Italy_%282012-2013%29

  • Michael W Wolf

    Maybe deliberately is my bias coming through. But they knew they breached the contract whether it was planned or they just failed to find a facility.

  • Michael W Wolf

    At one time I would have thought you were out of your mind. Now, I think you are frightfully correct.

  • Michael W Wolf

    The Anunnaki make sure of it. 🙂 Did you know our government in America has decided that the discovery of aliens would be so disruptive that they would NOT inform the public if that ever were the case?

    • cashmemorz

      Why disruptive? Do they have LENR technology?

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Open letter to the customer of the IH/Rossi year long test:

    Dear Customer:

    I do not know how much you have been following the progress of LENR and the Rossi E-Cat, but I hope you are interested enough to follow events on this site so you will read this letter.

    LENR and specifically the Rossi E-Cat could be a game changer for the world economy and the use of damaging fossil fuels, not to mention the huge number of lives it will save in energy starved under developed nations. I implore you to release Dr. Rossi from his NDA with you concerning information about the recently concluded year long test at your facility. I can imagine how much you value your privacy, but LENR and its benefits are just too great for you to remain silent. Please, the world needs to know the economic benefits you did or did not see during the year long test. Did using the E-Cats to supply heat to your facility save you money, if yes how much?

    One way you might release this information is through your attorney

    Thanks for listening to me, please consider the above with the utmost urgency.

    Bernie Koppenhofer

    bbck7@hotmail.com

    • LarryJ

      You know it is quite possible that Rossi requires his customers to sign an NDA because a lot of public focus on the ecat before he is ready with products in the market would be contrary to his and the technology’s best interests. If I were him I would probably do like every other player in the field, say absolutely nothing and make anyone I deal with sign an NDA to do the same.

      There is a huge interest from the followers of this tech to have it finally, irrefutably proven and confirmed for the good of the world. I think the more likely motive is to finally prove to all their friends and families that “See, I hate to say I told you so, I’m not nuts, I’m an open minded far seeing prophet and so much more willing to think outside the box than all of you”, even though there is nothing beyond products in the market that will ever convince anyone of its reality.

      All these giveaway ideas and irrefutable test ideas would do, at best, is bring unwanted focus to a tech that is not ready for the market and so is meaningless to the world in any practical sense. The world will not be a better place today because cold fusion may be a reality tomorrow and you cannot plan projects today on what might happen in the future, only products will enable those things.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Open letter to the customer of the IH/Rossi year long test:

    Dear Customer:

    I do not know how much you have been following the progress of LENR and the Rossi E-Cat, but I hope you are interested enough to follow events on this site so you will read this letter.

    LENR and specifically the Rossi E-Cat could be a game changer for the world economy and the use of damaging fossil fuels, not to mention the huge number of lives it will save in energy starved under developed nations. I implore you to release Dr. Rossi from his NDA with you concerning information about the recently concluded year long test at your facility. I can imagine how much you value your privacy, but LENR and its benefits are just too great for you to remain silent. Please, the world needs to know the economic benefits you did or did not see during the year long test. Did using the E-Cats to supply heat to your facility save you money, if yes how much?

    One way you might release this information is through your attorney

    Thanks for listening to me, please consider the above with the utmost urgency.

    Bernie Koppenhofer

    bbck7@hotmail.com

    • “Open letter to the customer of the …”

      You *do* realize, of course, that the customer of Rossi’s E-cat would enjoy certain financial advantages WRT to energy costs over the competition, and may therefore WISH to keep this kind of ‘magic’ he is buying a secret?

      No?

      Do you routinely telegraph your trade secrets and proprietary processes over to your competition?

    • LarryJ

      You know it is quite possible that Rossi requires his customers to sign an NDA because a lot of public focus on the ecat before he is ready with products in the market would be contrary to his and the technology’s best interests. If I were him I would probably do like every other player in the field, say absolutely nothing and make anyone I deal with sign an NDA to do the same.

      There is a huge interest from the followers of this tech to have it finally, irrefutably proven and confirmed for the good of the world. I think the more likely motive is to finally and irrefutably prove to all their friends and families that “See, I hate to say I told you so, I’m not nuts, I’m an open minded far seeing prophet and so much more willing to think outside the box than all of you”, even though there is nothing beyond products in the market that will ever convince anyone of its reality.

      All these giveaway ideas and irrefutable test ideas would do, at best, is bring unwanted focus to a tech that is not ready for the market and so is meaningless to the world in any practical sense. The world will not be a better place today because cold fusion may be a reality tomorrow and you cannot plan projects today on what might happen in the future, only products will enable those things.

      Rossi currently has one customer and you can bet that there is some prior relationship with that customer which means that the customer is really still part of the ongoing R&D to prove the commercial viability of the product. Anyone following this story knows that the year long test did not go off without a hitch. The results were spectacular but there is still work to be done.

  • georgehants

    Fact, there has never been a test of an E-cat sufficient to fully convince the most open-minded of Rossi followers i.e. me.
    The testers in the Luguno test have disappeared without trace etc etc.
    Mr. Rossi has always said selling products will convince the World, but every-time he sells more and more, for some reason everything has to stay secret.
    The known Evidence is not sufficient to justify any statements of commercial Cold Fusion at this point and just when it seemed that proof may be forthcoming the insane capitalist system rears it’s ugly head again and we sit here with many actually talking about this delay to Cold Fusion as if it could happen in any sort of sane society, while the millions who die and suffer wait yet again.
    The onus is entirely on Mr. Rossi to show he has what he says he has and these comical legal events are no excuse for him not to do so.

    • Omega Z

      comical legal events can land one in the pokey. Rossi can attest to this.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Yea George, I agree 100%.

  • georgehants

    Fact, there has never been a test of an E-cat sufficient to fully convince the most open-minded of Rossi followers i.e. me.
    The testers in the Luguno test have disappeared without trace etc etc.
    Mr. Rossi has always said selling products will convince the World, but every-time he sells more and more, for some reason everything has to stay secret.
    The known Evidence is not sufficient to justify any statements of commercial Cold Fusion at this point and just when it seemed that proof may be forthcoming the insane capitalist system rears it’s ugly head again and we sit here with many actually talking about this delay to Cold Fusion as if it could happen in any sort of sane society, while the millions who die and suffer wait yet again.
    The onus is entirely on Mr. Rossi to show he has what he says he has and these comical legal events are no excuse for him not to do so, he is completely free to do what demonstrations he wishes outside of IH and in the name of Leonardo etc.
    EDIT The argument to convince every psychologically disturbed skeptic is irrelevant, one only needs to convince fair minded people for it’s Truth to disseminate.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Spot on George! Rossi has provided nothing but promises and strange questionable maneuvers in my opinion…but I will also say I am quite suspicious of IH as well. Either way, for me, the burden still lays upon Rossi to provide at least some sort of proof of his claims if he wants to be believed…otherwise all we have is “Rossi says” until that point. I just don’t picture us getting any real info from any installed plants for a very long time especially as every customer is always shrouded in some sort of secrecy.

      • georgehants

        Alex, as long as you maintain a completely open-mind as to if Mr. Rossi is genuine, then that is fine.
        Of course you are correct regarding IH, but their position is now a Fact that we must open-mindedly accept until proven right or wrong and it is for Mr. Rossi to either go along with the delay of conformation of his work, or confirm it in another way.
        Very few people understand seemingly what a Fact is and live their lives completely in a fantasy of opinion and pointless speculation, the very sad thing is that much of the time they seem to actually believe there own opinions or speculations and totally disregard Evidence.
        We wait again for Mr. Rossi and that is only by his choice.

        • Omega Z

          It’s lucky you’re waiting on Rossi instead of me.

          The more people try and rush me, the slower I go. I’ve been know to go so slow, I actually go backwards in time. 🙂

        • Michael W Wolf

          That is exactly right George. If it is IH’s way of delaying, Rossi can foil their plan flat out.

    • bachcole

      OMG, George, I notice that you became a Rossi castigator and disbeliever when you ran out of patience with his not fulfilling your unrealistic socio-economic expectations of him giving everything away for free.

      • Jarea

        I think he has a good point. We all have waited too much.

        • bachcole

          It will take as long as it takes. One’s impatience or unfulfilled expectations is not a justification for doubting evidence so that one can have an opportunity to dump on Rossi.

        • Or expected too much.

          • bachcole

            too soon.

            Really nice comment.

    • Omega Z

      comical legal events can land one in the pokey. Rossi can attest to this.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Yea George, I agree 100%.

    • “The testers in the Luguno test”

      Who were they again? Are they still drawing breath?

  • cashmemorz

    Slow and easy wins the race. Just ask the hare who was resting part way through the race with the hare.

  • Karl Venter

    Why cant we see a photo of ecatx etc
    its surely covered by patent?

    • LarryJ

      Rossi has said that he will not discuss the ecatx/quarkx until he has completed his preliminary R&D. Before the falling out with IH he was talking about a press conference in Sweden at the same time as Mats Lewan’s symposium but his latest comment on the matter has implied that is not a for sure thing yet.

      • psi2u2

        It is cancelled. The publication of the report was Mats’ pre-requisite.

  • Karl Venter

    Why cant we see a photo of ecatx etc
    its surely covered by patent?

    • Like the formula for Coca-Cola? I saw the formula, once, briefly, for a millisecond or so maybe on some website on April 1st … Can we get a copy of Coke’s formula while you are at it?

    • LarryJ

      Rossi has said that he will not discuss the ecatx/quarkx until he has completed his preliminary R&D. Before the falling out with IH he was talking about a press conference in Sweden at the same time as Mats Lewan’s symposium but his latest comment on the matter has implied that is not a for sure thing yet.

      • psi2u2

        It is cancelled. The publication of the report was Mats’ pre-requisite.

  • Alex Fenrick

    I can’t think of any possible downside at this point for Rossi not to allow a small panel of testers who are not directly associated to each other to run a short series of tests for proof of claim. If the skeptics dig deep enough they will probably find some indirect connection between testers…but if you have a panel of testers…that would be enough of a benchmark for even skeptics to excuse indirect non-obvious connections. This would not affect his lawsuit or his IP by allowing this test. Rossi has said 3 more units have been ordered and speaks of the brakes being off now…so he obviously does not feel his hands are tied today to continue his work. Not only would this give proof to everyone even skeptics (you heard me admitting it here now) but it would most likely trickle down to indirectly aid him in his court case…and lastly it would help his battered image in the public eye that he obviously does care about, otherwise he would not be so public and vocal. Just my thoughts as…. wait what am I called….yea “pathoskeptic” haha…it actually cracks me up so I take no offense. 🙂

    • Brent Buckner

      If we take what Rossi writes at face value then perhaps there’s very little upside for him to do that, as against a drain on time and attention from 180 days of paid work. He wrote that he has the investment capital that he requires for his manufacturing plans, and his given timeframe for mass production would be timely for indirect aid in his court case and for impacting his public image.

      • Alex Fenrick

        That is very possible…although I still believe it is in his best interest and would obvously help his public image greatly. I am not sure if this has been mentioned before…and this is PURELY SPECULATION…but I find it quite interesting that Rossi has given the impression that he was essentially blind sighted by the events that have caused him to sue…yet he magically had sufficient funding pretty much the same day we heard about the lawsuit (maybe a day after). If Rossi was being 100% genuine…how did he have funding instantly? Again I am not saying this is proof of anything…but I do have to say it is a bit odd.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          10 million can do a lot of research and planning to build.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Unless he was playing semantics, he absolutely has implied that he is being funded…not using his own personal funds.

            Edit: I was under the impression that Rossi had implied that he had NEW funding rather than possibly using his own funds. If I was mistaken here…then I agree 10 million can absolutely do alot of research and planning.

          • psi2u2

            And you think he is not? Or just that he got his funding suspiciously quickly?

          • Alex Fenrick

            It’s definitely possible that he is funding it himself. I thought I saw something from Rossi that implied he had new funding but I could be mistaken there. I really just found the timing of funding suspicious as I missed the discussion that both parties had known a breach was coming for months. Sounds like a non-issue at this point because of that.

          • psi2u2

            I agree.

        • psi2u2

          The question of when Rossi/IH each knew things were going wrong has been discussed fairly extensively and it is pretty clear that both Rossi and IH had known for some months that a breach was coming. But of course it could not come until 5 days after the production of the report and IH failure to pay.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Months would indeed be enough to find funding. I must have missed that discussion…thank you for clarifying it.

          • bachcole

            I agree 100%. But how could Rossi know that I.H. wasn’t going to pay? The only way would be that I.H. was telling Rossi, either overtly or covertly, that the hugging and the kissing was over. At some point months ago the romance was over and Rossi knew it. I wonder how that went.

          • cashmemorz

            Any smart business man, and Rossi is that as well as an engineer, manipulator amongst many talents, always records all details daily just in case. Rossi did not necessarily gather details for court evidence, just details of everyday happenings between all who Rossi encountered daily, just in case. When the time came that it was becoming obvious that IH was not going to Pay Rossi, at that time pertinent details were pulled out of the daily notes and copied to form the 18 volumes that could apply to what IH might have been acting on towards not paying Rossi.

          • bachcole

            And you know all of these kinds of details how?

          • cashmemorz

            I’m not saying that Rossi actually did this but rather that it is very probable that he did based on that It is standard practice for any smart/successful entrepreneur. It’s called keeping a paper trail. Even when I started my career at the level of a lowly designer, the chief engineer where I started work after high school, strongly suggested that I follow his example and keep a detailed diary of anything that MIGHT BE important. One does not know which details are or will be important so everything gets recorded just in case. There were other prominent, successful people I knew, who did the same and suggested I do this.

          • bachcole

            So Rossi allowed you access to his private records?

          • cashmemorz

            Missed the part where I stated that “it is very PROBABLE that he did based on that It is standard practice for any smart/successful entrepreneur” ? This means I have no way to confirm that he does this but, it would surprise me if he did not have a daily journal from which he could compile personal evidence against Industrial Heat. This kind of activity is my understanding of how things are PROBABLY done by Rossi. I am an ordinary blogger throwing out probable scenarios, not trying to come across as if I have actual personal knowledge of what Rossi does or does not do. Why would you think like that?

          • bachcole

            Because I sometimes have too much to read so I don’t always read carefully enough. (:->)

      • Michael W Wolf

        Yea Brent, Rossi is old and now has much too much on his plate. Alainco is right. Rossi should let the proverbial cat out of the bag and let it go where it goes in everyone’s hands. Maybe Rossi was wrong for not working with Godes, assuming Godes was sincere.

        • LarryJ

          Chronological age is becoming less and less of a factor these days. The number of men in their 60s starting families is a fast growing demographic. How old you are is more a question of how well you took care of yourself and how you feel. As George Burns once quipped “If I’d known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself”. Rossi is an athlete, a proven marathon man and believes he is on a mission from his god. I think he will go the distance.

          As for sincerity in partners, I think that where trillion dollar markets are in play, the word sincerity has little meaning. He has what they want, period. Trust no one. Everybody has their own agenda. His paranoia has kept him in the game this long and I would like to see him stay in the game. If we lose Rossi we will have nothing to talk about.

          • Michael W Wolf

            I hope you are right brother.

    • Omega Z

      ->”If the skeptics dig deep enough they will probably find some indirect connection between testers”

      This is very true. I know someone#1 that knows someone#2 that knows someone#3 that knows someone#4 that knows someone#5 That is a close relative of President Obama.

      This based on a population of 330 Million has a 99% chance of being true. The lower the population, the less iterations necessary.
      —————————————————————————
      Demo’s or tests take a lot of time and money and Rossi will not allow you an E-cat out of his sight. You already have controversy because Rossi was Present.

      It’s best if Rossi just puts a few to work for customers. If it works, it wont stay secret very long.

      • Alex Fenrick

        I still think the cost and time Rossi would spend on a short controlled test with a small panel would be money well spent at this juncture…but I can understand your perspective. I will say if he does not bring a product to market soon (I guess with the 3 mystery units), I believe he will have a very difficult time ever doing so as this court case could go on for years with continuances ect. Should be interesting to say the least.

        • LarryJ

          Nobody will ever believe any demo no matter how irrefutable you might think it is. There will always be a large credible group who will refute it. A short controlled test with a small panel or a long test with a large controlled panel or any iteration thereof would be a complete waste of effort. The only proof for a paradigm shift is products in the market.

          The court case will be an interesting sideshow that may be resolved this decade but probably not. It will have no effect in the short term and in the long term will probably determine who owes who a licensing fee. By that point in time it will likely be a minor fight between two mega corps like when Apple sued Samsung for infringing its patents, who cared.

          • bachcole

            I just like Apple suing Samsung, most people won’t even know that it is happening and even more people won’t give a rat’s rear end. I barely knew that Apple sued Samsung, and it impacts my emotions exactly zero.

      • Michael W Wolf

        Yea, six degrees of separation connects everyone on the planet. Theoretically.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Just for openers for creating this panel, will you provide the financial performance bonds necessary to protect Rossi’s IP in case one of the “small panel of testers” decides to steal his IP?

      • Alex Fenrick

        No Bernie…it does not work that way. That is what NDA’s are for. This is all standard stuff.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    On the other hand, Rossi’s flying under the radar approach seems
    to be working.

    • Omega Z

      Who’s Rossi and where is he flying too.

      • cashmemorz

        Towards a place in history that is very enviable. That is what pathoskeptics are jealous of amongst several other strange feelings that are in the “psycho” dimension.

        • Omega Z

          Those poor poor people.
          We should start a go fund me account to get those people some professional medical help…

          • cashmemorz

            That means you are one of the bloggers who will NEVER order an E-Cat. I have and am willing to wait . You?

          • Omega Z

            You misunderstand,
            Poor poor people=Skeptics.
            I believe the E-cat works. I’m just waiting for conformation that it’s economically beneficial..

          • cashmemorz

            If you don’t accept the COP +6 then it will never work for you.

          • Michael W Wolf

            I feel the same as you.

        • Michael W Wolf

          No, I think they just don’t believe it is possible. So they feel justified in just slandering people. Those who believe in LENR and criticize Rossi, generally are not skeptopaths.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    On the other hand, Rossi’s flying under the radar approach seems
    to be working.

    • Omega Z

      Who’s Rossi and where is he flying too.

      • cashmemorz

        Towards a place in history that is very enviable. That is what pathoskeptics are jealous of amongst several other strange feelings that are in the “psycho” dimension.

        • Omega Z

          Those poor poor people.
          We should start a go fund me account to get those people some professional medical help…

          • cashmemorz

            That means you are one of the bloggers who will NEVER order an E-Cat. I have and am willing to wait . You?

          • Omega Z

            You misunderstand,
            Poor poor people=Skeptics.
            I believe the E-cat works. I’m just waiting for conformation that it’s economically beneficial..

          • cashmemorz

            If you don’t accept the COP +6 then it will never work for you.

          • Michael W Wolf

            I feel the same as you.

        • Michael W Wolf

          No, I think they just don’t believe it is possible. So they feel justified in just slandering people. Those who believe in LENR and criticize Rossi, generally are not skeptopaths.

  • LuFong

    From Rossi today (emphasis mine):

    Meaghan
    April 17, 2016 at 3:51 AM

    Dear Dr Andrea Rossi:

    How is going on your R&D with the QuarkX ?

    Regards,
    Meaghan

    Andrea Rossi
    April 17, 2016 at 8:03 AM

    Meaghan:

    We are working very strong: still very promising, but it is premature
    any further consideration. We are still in a prelininary[sic] phase of
    R&D.

    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • LarryJ

      Keep in mind that English is not Rossi’s native language and that he does not know how to spell preliminary. He has not yet recanted his hope to have a quarkx industrial prototype in operation this year.

      • LuFong

        I had no intention of emphasizing the misspelling, only that the R&D was still in a preliminary phase. We’ll see what happens given the civil suit.

    • Patrick Ellul

      Rossi’s English gives him away. I know for a fact that sometimes he edits posted questions (which is fair enough if it makes them more answerable). But I also suspect that sometimes he poses as an anonymous user to ask himself some question that he wants answered, or publish some point of view that he wants pushed anonymously. For example a “Jacky” post recently accusing Vaugh, Darden and Rothwell of various things used the distinctively misspelt word “foundamental”, which happens to be how Rossi himself always spells that word. See for yourself at http://rossilivecat.com/all.html

      • LuFong

        I’m aware that Rossi edits questions and changes answers but it never
        occurred to me that he might pose them as well. Could be a coincidence
        since many or Rossi’s blog posters are not English speaking.

        I had no intention of emphasizing the misspelling, only that the R&D was still in a preliminary phase.

      • LuFong

        Yes, who knew about the test being shut down by healthcare officials in Florida? That’s the first time I heard about this one. Good catch about ‘Jacky.’

        I have to admit I am starting to question the sanity of Rossi.

      • Omega Z

        Does Rossi pose questions to himself under a pseudonym to get answers out there.

        NO. Having followed JONP for a very long time, I can say if Rossi wants something known, he just puts it out there point blank. He’s not bashful about it.

  • Brent Buckner

    If we take what Rossi writes at face value then perhaps there’s very little upside for him to do that, as against a drain on time and attention from 180 days of paid work. He wrote that he has the investment capital that he requires for his manufacturing plans, and his given timeframe for mass production would be timely for indirect aid in his court case and for impacting his public image.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Yea Brent, Rossi is old and now has much too much on his plate. Alainco is right. Rossi should let the proverbial cat out of the bag and let it go where it goes in everyone’s hands. Maybe Rossi was wrong for not working with Godes, assuming Godes was sincere.

      • LarryJ

        Chronological age is becoming less and less of a factor these days. The number of men in their 60s starting families is a fast growing demographic. How old you are is more a question of how well you took care of yourself and how you feel. As George Burns once quipped “If I’d known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself”. Rossi is an athlete, a proven marathon man and believes he is on a mission from his god. I think he will go the distance.

        As for sincerity in partners, I think that where trillion dollar markets are in play, the word sincerity has little meaning. He has what they want, period. Trust no one. Everybody has their own agenda. His paranoia has kept him in the game this long and I would like to see him stay in the game. If we lose Rossi we will have nothing to talk about.

        • Michael W Wolf

          I hope you are right brother.

  • georgehants

    Alex, as long as you maintain a completely open-mind as to if Mr. Rossi id genuine then that is fine.
    Very few people understand seemingly what a Fact is and live their lives completely in a fantasy of opinion and pointless speculation, the very sad thing is that much of the time they seem to actuly believe there own opinions or speculations.
    We wait again for Mr. Rossi and that is only by his choice.

    • Omega Z

      It’s lucky you’re waiting on Rossi instead of me.

      The more people try and rush me, the slower I go. I’ve been know to go so slow, I actually go backwards in time. 🙂

      • Roland

        There normally is adequate shielding in the maned crafts themselves, excepting for being caught in flare plumes from solar or cosmic events.

        The International Space Station, for example, has a designated shelter area for the duration of such events; some of which are, in fact, dangerously energetic.

        Life, as we know it, can exist here because the magnetic field around the planet shields us, almost completely, from the high energy radiations present right outside the magnetosphere.

        • cashmemorz

          No one knows how the Lunar Module kept the astronauts safe from radiation?

          • Alex Fenrick

            Oh I agree with you there Orso…I am sure most people would do just about anything possible especially if they were convinced of their technology. Unfortunately for Rossi though…his carelessness in his use of the fake poster does make him look a bit dishonest from some points of view. Again I am not saying this is anything significant….I just think he might want to be a bit more careful with moves like this that many would consider quite dishonest and shady.

    • Michael W Wolf

      That is exactly right George. If it is IH’s way of delaying, Rossi can foil their plan flat out.

  • Jarea

    I think he has a good point. We all have waited too much.

    • bachcole

      It will take as long as it takes. One’s impatience or unfulfilled expectations is not a justification for doubting evidence so that one can have an opportunity to dump on Rossi.

    • Or expected too much.

  • Omega Z

    ->”If the skeptics dig deep enough they will probably find some indirect connection between testers”

    This is very true. I know someone#1 that knows someone#2 that knows someone#3 that knows someone#4 that knows someone#5 That is a close relative of President Obama.

    This based on a population of 330 Million has a 99% chance of being true. The lower the population, the less iterations necessary.
    —————————————————————————
    Demo’s or tests take a lot of time and money and Rossi will not allow you an E-cat out of his sight. You already have controversy because Rossi was Present.

    It’s best if Rossi just puts a few to work for customers. If it works, it wont stay secret very long.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Yea, six degrees of separation connects everyone on the planet. Theoretically.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Just for openers for creating this panel, will you provide the financial performance bonds necessary to protect Rossi’s IP in case one of the “small panel of testers” decides to steal his IP?

    • Alex Fenrick

      No Bernie…it does not work that way. That is what NDA’s are for. This is all standard stuff.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    10 million can do a lot of research and planning to build.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Unless he was playing semantics, he absolutely has implied that he is being funded…not using his own personal funds.

      • psi2u2

        And you think he is not? Or just that he got his funding suspiciously quickly?

      • psi2u2

        I agree.

  • Job001

    Temperature lags heat flux and enthalpy. Consequently, ice melts, volatiles evaporate, chemistry changes, oceans depths warm and oceans rise, and these things happen before temperature rise.

    Google warming with phase change to see charts where temperature rise halts during phase change for melting or boiling or other phase changes. This is known science by scientists and even thoughtful ice tea drinkers.

    • Job – total hogwash and you know it.

      The majority of the earth that would have warmed is not frozen therefore NO PHASE CHANGE. Temperature in that case is a first order integral equation with a linear relationship with time.

      BTW, nice try at a distraction, dodging the issue of failed temperature rise predictions by both Hansen (formerly of NASA/GISS) and the IPCC (the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change). Are Hansen and the IPCC both idiots ignorant of ‘phase change’ too? Remember, these are the very acolytes of AGW now …

      In most “sciences” a hypothesis that failed that bad would be re-worked, revised, but not so with AGW and its steadfast, almost blind adherents.

      Why is that?

      • Job001

        Mind all made up, so, Who’s paying you?

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    We have learned there is no such thing as “an independent tester” skeptics could turn “an independent tester” into an incompetent “nut case” just by saying someone else said he was a “nut case”

    • Alex Fenrick

      Bernie a small panel of testors that do not have direct known connections would be sufficient for me and I believe most of the “pathoskeptics”. Some might find indirect connections….but a panel would offset it enough if any popped up. If the testers would chosen honestly no more than an indirect connection or two would logically exist. I really would just have to be about a panel rather than one connected individual….nothing more.

  • Ted-Z

    Related to Rossi or not related, an opinion from an engineer is valid. Otherwise you are suggesting that the ERV engineer committed a fraud. Engineers have their rules of conduct and professional associations. Most engineers would feel offended with your posting. In the USA, the PE (professional engineers) have a strict code of conduct.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Ted while you are correct in your statement regarding engineers…it does not apply in this case. The reason is that I am not necessarily saying that the ERV is maliciously fraudulent, I am saying the connection to Rossi and evidently IH (as many have said IH approved the EVR after knowing Rossi was connected) is what causes the absolute conflict of interest.

  • NT

    How do you square this statement from Rossi?

    Frank Acland

    April 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM

    Dear Andrea,

    You have said that you have many back orders of industrial plants, but how many companies/organizations are you actively working with to build and deliver plants for?

    Many thanks,

    Frank Acland

    Translate

    Andrea Rossi

    April 16, 2016 at 9:32 PM

    Frank Acland:

    One.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

  • Alex Fenrick

    Michael that is no different than Rossi’s fraud conviction AND jail time pointing at Rossi being a fraudster. You can’t have it both ways. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

  • LarryJ

    The problem with including the court case as a factor in proving the ecat is the slow pace at which the courts move. I would be very surprised if we even see the jury selected this year. By the time anything comes out of the court case it will probably be moot. As a result I think the court case will be an irrelevant sideshow.

  • psi2u2

    The question of when Rossi/IH each knew things were going wrong has been discussed fairly extensively and it is pretty clear that both Rossi and IH had known for some months that a breach was coming. But of course it could not come until 5 days after the production of the report and IH failure to pay.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Months would indeed be enough to find funding. I must have missed that discussion…thank you for clarifying it.

    • bachcole

      I agree 100%. But how could Rossi know that I.H. wasn’t going to pay? The only way would be that I.H. was telling Rossi, either overtly or covertly, that the hugging and the kissing was over. At some point months ago the romance was over and Rossi knew it. I wonder how that went.

      • cashmemorz

        Any smart business man, and Rossi is that as well as an engineer, manipulator amongst many talents, always records all details daily just in case. Rossi did not necessarily gather details for court evidence, just details of everyday happenings between all who Rossi encountered daily, just in case. When the time came that it was becoming obvious that IH was not going to Pay Rossi, at that time pertinent details were pulled out of the daily notes and copied to form the 18 volumes that could apply to what IH might have been acting on towards not paying Rossi.

  • LarryJ

    Nobody will ever believe any demo no matter how irrefutable you might think it is. There will always be a large credible group who will refute it. A short controlled test with a small panel or a long controlled panel or any iteration thereof would be a complete waste of effort. The only proof for a paradigm shift is products in the market.

    The court case will be an interesting sideshow that may be resolved this decade but probably not. It will have no effect in the short term and in the long term will probably determine who owes who a licensing fee. By that point in time it will likely be a minor fight between two mega corps like when Apple sued Samsung for infringing its patents.

    • bachcole

      I just like Apple suing Samsung, most people won’t even know that it is happening and even more people won’t give a rat’s rear end. I barely knew that Apple sued Samsung, and it impacts my emotions exactly zero.

  • Demokratinifara

    As soon you let the authorities in youve lost control. Youll be forced to follow regulations interpreted by clerks who hasent got a clue of what they are doing! The greens who are dependent of the trillions of tax dollars that the gouverment subisdise their stupid ineffective expensive dysfunctional vind and solar “power” will fight real alternatives with nails and teeth!

  • GordonDocherty

    Several people (not just Rossi) sat in very close proximity (the same crate) as running LENR reactors for a year and are still very much alive. “Toxic radiations” is therefore pushing it…

    Mind you, if we are looking to prevent exposure to potentially toxic radiation, then the following need (also) to be banned :

    1. microwave ovens – stuffed full of dangerous radiation…
    2. mobile communications including cell (mobile) phones – sources of dangerous radiation, in the case of cell phones sitting right next to the ear/brain (who says ever phone is always “safe”?)…

    3. luminous watches – they’re luminous for a reason…

    4. Granite – buildings containing a high level of Granite (like Grand Central Station or most of the buildings in the city of Aberdeen in Scotland) emit more radiation than is allowable at a nuclear power plant…

    5. the large nuclear furnace burning out of control in the sky – this is known to saturate the environment across the planet with high levels of radiation, although rather more so by day than by night…

    Yet, no such bans have been imposed. Further, as Rossi points out, these unfounded claims appear to be eminating from the same sources that also claim the e-Cat does not work, and never will, as LENR is an impossibility.

    • We’re safe from the nuclear furnace in the sky here in the UK – we only see it once a month at most.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, wait until Mr. Cameron has all his new semi-safe nuclear bombs scattered around the country side.
        Of course my idea of using all the unemployed to manufacture and fit solar panels on every roof is deemed crazy in this society.
        I doubt if any Research on this has been performed,
        The cost would be very low, as the unemployed are already being paid something.

        • GordonDocherty

          it would also soak up all that harmful radiation… but, seriously for a second, your idea is an excellent one … another reason why Hinkley C is just plain a bad idea … ah, well

        • Omega Z

          George,

          As I have heard and apparently Peter can attest to, those solar panels would only be of use 1 day a month. Not very economical I must say.

          • georgehants

            Omega, sometimes I have great difficulty understanding some of the reply’s I get.
            The below report seems then to indicate that there are an amazing number of people using them one day a month economically.
            ——-
            Renewable energy
            Solar power set to provide record 15% of UK’s power
            http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/02/solar-power-provide-record-15-uk-power

          • Omega Z

            Sorry George, My post was tongue in cheek
            I’m certain only 1 day of sunshine a month is a little exaggerated.

            About Wind/Solar.
            For every 2MW of wind/solar, there needs to be 50% or 1MW of conventional backup power. As the UK government is intent on eliminating all fossil energy plants, that leaves only Nuclear power. So build away on those panels. Nuclear plants are still in the mix.

          • Rene

            I could believe that for many parts of the UK, the USA NE. In sunny northern CA, I know my backup power needs are 3% (12% daily for 3 months), soon to be 0.2% It’s all about short term energy storage.
            Even in non-solar applications load leveling VRB batteries work to increase power generation efficiency.

          • georgehants

            Omega, no I am sorry, my wit detector went a bit dumb.
            I seem to be showing signs of that old age thing.
            Best

          • 1 day a month was an exaggeration. We’ve had 2 this month already, and it’s only the 19th.

      • GordonDocherty

        🙂

    • Obvious

      6.being a pilot for a commercial airline.

      • cashmemorz

        Astronauts going thru Van Allen Belts twice, once going out of Earth orbit towards the Moon then second time on return leg of trip. An hour per each leg of trip. About 2 hours of hard radiation. And they didn’t have special heavy materials shielding to protect them. But they didn’t get sick, why?

    • Roland

      Ta Da … Beat the ‘radiation’ drum really, really loudly without ever, ever discussing actual measured exposures to the continuous background radiation as a critical reference point.

      Understanding the meaning of background radiation is foundational to understanding actual risks; unfortunately scaring people with ‘radiation’ (while, of course, continuing to expose them to actual risks as consumers) has been much more successful than getting technological illiterates to grasp all the necessary concepts to properly assess their risks from ‘radiation’.

      However; getting stupid people to relate primarily to their fears is well grounded in peer reviewed science, and as a consequence anybody with an IQ over a hundred can read up on the basics and get right to ‘work’.

      To usefully simplify; for future reference and/or the edification of your loved ones:

      Convert all radiation measurements into human x-ray exposures, using Google, and then ‘Google’ for the side effects of exposure to x number of medical x-rays over a given interval (the interval part matters a lot).

      This criteria holds up, reasonably, well for assessing the risks of all forms of human exposure to non ionizing radiation, background and ‘otherwise’ (‘us’).

      Of course everyone, that’s not stupid, will be doing their level best to measure every form of non ionizing radiation and every evidence of an/many Electro Magnetic signature/s (particularly so when related to any significant changes in the LENR reaction/reactor) with every piece of relevant hardware they can think of, lay their hands on, or invent.

      Rossi is, of course, too stupid to have done any of these things and thus has no evidentiary trail to fall back on.

      I’ll place my wager now before the rush builds and the odds slide:

      Non Ionizing radiation is a signal from pre E-Cat LENR designs (though valid signal, nonetheless, of low energy nuclear activity) and will only be of historical interest as the ‘signal’ that put the wind in the sails of the MFMP experimentalists; and that that in turn will be notable primarily for the very eclectic manner in which an early ‘open science’ initiative succeeded in doing ‘real’ science in full view of the, interested, public.

      Actually, I’d prefer my live science on a time delay so no morons can effortlessly learn new ways to blow things up and such; ya know, try ta keep it outta’ the hands of the kids for a while…

  • GordonDocherty

    Several people (not just Rossi) sat in very close proximity (the same crate) as running LENR reactors for a year and are still very much alive. “Toxic radiations” is therefore pushing it…

    Mind you, if we are looking to prevent exposure to potentially toxic radiation, then the following need (also) to be banned :

    1. microwave ovens – stuffed full of dangerous radiation…
    2. mobile communications including cell (mobile) phones – sources of dangerous radiation, in the case of cell phones sitting right next to the ear/brain (who says every phone is always “safe”?)…

    3. luminous watches – they’re luminous for a reason…

    4. Granite – buildings containing a high level of Granite (like Grand Central Station or most of the buildings in the city of Aberdeen in Scotland) emit more radiation than is allowable at a nuclear power plant…

    5. the large nuclear furnace burning out of control in the sky – this is known to saturate the environment across the planet with high levels of radiation, although rather more so by day than by night…

    Yet, no such bans have been imposed. Further, as Rossi points out, these unfounded claims appear to be eminating from the same sources that also claim the e-Cat does not work, and never will, as LENR is an impossibility.

    • We’re safe from the nuclear furnace in the sky here in the UK – we only see it once a month at most.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, wait until Mr. Cameron has all his new semi-safe nuclear bombs scattered around the country side.
        Of course my idea of using all the unemployed to manufacture and fit solar panels on every roof is deemed crazy in this society.
        I doubt if any Research on this has been performed,
        The cost would be very low, as the unemployed are already being paid something, but not enough that the food banks are not overwhelmed.

        • GordonDocherty

          it would also soak up all that harmful radiation… but, seriously for a second, your idea is an excellent one … another reason why Hinkley C is just plain a bad idea … ah, well

        • Omega Z

          George,

          As I have heard and apparently Peter can attest to, those solar panels would only be of use 1 day a month. Not very economical I must say.

          • georgehants

            Omega, sometimes I have great difficulty understanding some of the reply’s I get.
            The below report seems then to indicate that there are an amazing number of people using them one day a month economically.
            ——-
            Renewable energy
            Solar power set to provide record 15% of UK’s power
            http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/02/solar-power-provide-record-15-uk-power

          • Omega Z

            Sorry George, My post was tongue in cheek
            I’m certain only 1 day of sunshine a month is a little exaggerated.

            About Wind/Solar.
            For every 2MW of wind/solar, there needs to be 50% or 1MW of conventional backup power. As the UK government is intent on eliminating all fossil energy plants, that leaves only Nuclear power. So build away on those panels. Nuclear plants are still in the mix.

          • “For every 2MW of wind/solar, there needs to be 50% or 1MW of conventional backup power.”

            Evidence please.

          • Rene

            I could believe that for many parts of the UK, the USA NE. In sunny northern CA, I know my backup power needs are 3% (12% daily for 3 months), soon to be 0.2% It’s all about short term energy storage.
            Even in non-solar applications load leveling VRB batteries work to increase power generation efficiency.

          • georgehants

            Omega, no I am sorry, my wit detector went a bit dumb.
            I seem to be showing signs of that old age thing.
            Best

          • 1 day a month was an exaggeration. We’ve had 2 this month already, and it’s only the 19th.

      • GordonDocherty

        🙂

    • Albert Nilsson

      The case is that there is a valid concern about exposure to ionising radiation. And as such is known to be emitted from nuclear processes, there is of course an interest from the regulatory bodies in a device that calls itself LENR. If you aim at a commercial device you must be sure to show that you comply to the regulations. So you better read up on them and start applying for the applicable licenses.

      • GordonDocherty

        High Energy Nuclear Reactions (HENR) are, indeed, dangerous. LENR, by its very nature, is a lot safer, as a simple measurement of radiation around and external to an LENR product would demonstrate – and has already been demonstrated (for example, those who worked in the 1MW container are still very much alive).

        In fact, going back over the years, it was the lack of High Energy Nuclear Reaction signatures that caused the mainstream to claim that LENR was not real at all…

        So, it is not LENR that will need to fit in with the regulations for HENR, but rather the regulations changed to fit in with LENR, and to distinguish between HENR (which is dangerous and always will be) and LENR (which is inherently safe).

        The sooner the regulators measure and characterize actual emissions from LENR systems, therefore, the better – and remember, if the “developed world” drags its feet, with the promise of clean water, improved sanitation and cheap electricity, the 5.5 Billion people in the “developing world” certainly won’t.

        • cashmemorz

          How does anyone “characterize actual emissions from LENR systems” if no such emissions are found to exist by the regulatory bodies? Do regulatory bodies ever take the time to characterize radiation that “actually ” is non-existent? Why would they bother with working on complaints about such things after the regulatory bodies find nothing there to work on? It’s like crying wolf, where there is no wolf. Those who propose such things are shooting themselves in the foot because if the time ever comes when a LENR system does “actually” show external ionizing radiation, the regulatory bodies may say, “it’s just another sour grapes complainant who doesn’t know when to stop complaining” and not treat the complaint with as much urgency as the situation may require, during which time people may be getting sick from said radiation. Best to keep complaints for incidents where both sides, believers and skeptics, can agree there is something to complain about.

          • GordonDocherty

            By continual monitoring and experience – and, if no emissions are found over an extended period, then it is reasonable to assume there are normally no emissions, unlike HENR. Using HENR measures to try to inhibit or prohibit the roll out of LENR makes no sense. As to “better to play it safe”, trying to live life “with zero risk” is the surest way to catastrophe (and insanity).

      • clovis ray

        No licenses needed , no ionising radiation, the regulatory body has already cleared it,,as not a threat,

    • Obvious

      6.being a pilot for a commercial airline.

      • cashmemorz

        Astronauts going thru Van Allen Belts twice, once going out of Earth orbit towards the Moon then second time on return leg of trip. An hour per each leg of trip. About 2 hours of hard radiation. And they didn’t have special heavy materials shielding to protect them. But they didn’t get sick, why?

        • Albert Nilsson

          The radiation levels are not that high up there. They are high enough to be a concern, but they do not kill you if you do not stay there.

          • Roland

            There normally is adequate shielding in the maned crafts themselves, excepting for being caught in flare plumes from solar or cosmic events.

            The International Space Station, for example, has a designated shelter area for the duration of such events; some of which are, in fact, dangerously energetic.

            Life, as we know it, can exist here because the magnetic field around the planet shields us, almost completely, from the high energy radiations present right outside the magnetosphere.

          • cashmemorz

            No one knows how the Lunar Module kept the astronauts safe from radiation?

        • bachcole

          Perhaps because they prayed real hard?

    • Roland

      Ta Da … Beat the ‘radiation’ drum really, really loudly without ever, ever discussing actual measured exposures to the continuous background radiation as a critical reference point.

      Understanding the meaning of background radiation is foundational to understanding actual risks; unfortunately scaring people with ‘radiation’ (while, of course, continuing to expose them to actual risks as consumers) has been much more successful than getting technological illiterates to grasp all the necessary concepts to properly assess their risks from ‘radiation’.

      However; getting stupid people to relate primarily to their fears is well grounded in peer reviewed science, and as a consequence anybody with an IQ over a hundred can read up on the basics and get right to ‘work’.

      To usefully simplify; for future reference and/or the edification of your loved ones:

      Convert all radiation measurements into human x-ray exposures, using Google, and then ‘Google’ for the side effects of exposure to x number of medical x-rays over a given interval (the interval part matters a lot).

      This criteria holds up, reasonably, well for assessing the risks of all forms of human exposure to non ionizing radiation, background and ‘otherwise’ (‘us’).

      Of course everyone, that’s not stupid, will be doing their level best to measure every form of non ionizing radiation and every evidence of an/many Electro Magnetic signature/s (particularly so when related to any significant changes in the LENR reaction/reactor) with every piece of relevant hardware they can think of, lay their hands on, or invent.

      Rossi is, of course, too stupid to have done any of these things and thus has no evidentiary trail to fall back on.

      I’ll place my wager now before the rush builds and the odds slide:

      Non Ionizing radiation is a signal from pre E-Cat LENR designs (though valid signal, nonetheless, of low energy nuclear activity) and will only be of historical interest as the ‘signal’ that put the wind in the sails of the MFMP experimentalists; and that that in turn will be notable primarily for the very eclectic manner in which an early ‘open science’ initiative succeeded in doing ‘real’ science in full view of the, interested, public.

      Actually, I’d prefer my live science on a time delay so no morons can effortlessly learn new ways to blow things up and such; ya know, try ta keep it outta’ the hands of the kids for a while…

  • Zephir

    Whole the situation with cold fusion research is schizophrenic. The mainstream physicts are well aware of their nearly one century standing dismissal and ignorance of cold fusion research, so that they fear lost of moral credit and social prestige by now. They also feel, that the whole areas of their well paid research gets threatened by cold fusion (I mean all these alternative methods of energy production, conversion, transport and storage: from solar cells over batteries to nuclear fusion research). All these people have good socioeconomical reason to boycott cold fusion research as a single man: from theorists to applied research workers. And they indeed boycott it.

    This situation introduces high pressure to premature practical applications of cold fusion, because mainstream science pathoskeptics aren’t willing to accept the cold fusion until some commercial solution will be implemented and sold at public basis. This forces the cold fusion researchers to push these commercial applications, despite the lack of reliable risk analysis. From various sources we know, that the cold fusion is not inherently safe, as it could lead to runaways, which are the source of neutron bursts so it could serve as a dirty bomb for various terrorist groups and dictator regimes.

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/10/17/neutron-detection-and-the-e-cat/

    We even cannot exclude the option, however remote, that the runaway of large amount of cold fusion system could initiate the thermonuclear fusion, which would otherwise require expensive and difficult to obtain fission bomb to run. Therefore the principle of precautionary principle advices us to wait with commercial implementation of cold fusion systems, until we can be sure, how these runaways can be managed.

    • GordonDocherty

      A bomb would require fast neutrons, and lots of them, something noticably lacking in LENR (hence, the importance of the term “Low Energy”).

      As to runaway reactions, these are not of the “chain reaction running through fissile material” type. Instead, where they have happened, they are thermal runaways, as seen in the likes of thermite, only on a much smaller scale. There is therefore a risk based on overheating and fire, but that is about all. Also, LENR reactions are actually quite difficult to start and keep going, one of the reasons why “claimed replications” have often been anything but…

      Further, as LENR reactors use only tiny amounts of (more or less) “solid” fuels, there is little explosion risk, unlike when handling something like Methane (“natural gas”) through to Gasoline.

      In fact, LENR would (eventually) eliminate the need to ship fissile material to and from nuclear reactors, the storage and piping of natural gas into homes and the storage, delivery and use of gasoline (petrol) in cars. With some thought, it could even be used to eliminate Kerosine in aircraft at the same time as much extending their range, so making air travel much safer (no need to fly around inside a Kerosine bomb any more): 9/11 would likely have been very different if LENR aircraft had instead struck the towers.

      LENR would also enable a significant rise in the standard of living across the globe without putting pressure on natural resources, so reducing scarcity and easing political tensions, factors that are often found at the root of conflicts (those who have more have more to lose).

      So, introduction of LENR would most likely see a net decrease in risk.

      Finally, restricting the use of LENR reactors is very different from restricting the knowledge of how to build them. That cat is already outside the bag.

  • Zephir

    Whole the situation with cold fusion research is schizophrenic. The mainstream physicts are well aware of their nearly one century standing dismissal and ignorance of cold fusion research, so that they fear lost of moral credit and social prestige by now. They also feel, that the whole areas of their well paid research gets threatened by cold fusion (I mean all these alternative methods of energy production, conversion, transport and storage which are popular by now: from solar cells and another “renewables” over batteries to nuclear fusion research). All these people have good socioeconomical reason for to boycott cold fusion research as a single man: from theorists to applied research workers. And they indeed boycott it.

    This situation introduces high pressure to premature practical applications of cold fusion, because mainstream science pathoskeptics aren’t willing to accept the cold fusion until some commercial solution will be implemented and sold at public basis. This forces the cold fusion researchers to push these commercial applications, despite the lack of reliable risk analysis. From various sources we know, that the cold fusion is not inherently safe, as it could lead to runaways, which are the source of neutron bursts so it could serve as a dirty bomb for various terrorist groups and dictator regimes.

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/10/17/neutron-detection-and-the-e-cat/

    We even cannot exclude the option, however remote, that the runaway of large amount of cold fusion system could initiate the thermonuclear fusion, which would otherwise require expensive and difficult to obtain fission bomb to run. Therefore the precautionary principle advices us to wait with commercial implementation of cold fusion systems, until we can be sure, how these runaways can be managed. Without it we may not contribute to establishing of more stable and geopolitically safe world independent of fossil fuel crisis, but for less stable and more dangerous world instead. The way and timing of introduction of cold fusion at the market is therefore a subject of deeper strategy, than the free market can provide.

    • GordonDocherty

      A bomb would require fast neutrons, and lots of them, something noticably lacking in LENR (hence, the importance of the term “Low Energy”).

      As to runaway reactions, these are not of the “chain reaction running through fissile material” type. Instead, where they have happened, they are thermal runaways, as seen in the likes of thermite, only on a much smaller scale. There is therefore a risk based on overheating and fire, but that is about all. Also, LENR reactions are actually quite difficult to start and keep going, one of the reasons why “claimed replications” have often been anything but…

      Further, as LENR reactors use only tiny amounts of (more or less) “solid” fuels, there is little explosion risk, unlike when handling something like Methane (“natural gas”) through to Gasoline.

      In fact, LENR would (eventually) eliminate the need to ship fissile material to and from nuclear reactors, the storage and piping of natural gas into homes and the storage, delivery and use of gasoline (petrol) in cars. With some thought, it could even be used to eliminate Kerosine in aircraft at the same time as much extending their range, so making air travel much safer (no need to fly around inside a Kerosine bomb any more): 9/11 would likely have been very different if LENR aircraft had instead struck the towers.

      LENR would also enable a significant rise in the standard of living across the globe without putting pressure on natural resources, so reducing scarcity and easing political tensions, factors that are often found at the root of conflicts (those who have more have more to lose).

      So, introduction of LENR would most likely see a net decrease in risk.

      Finally, restricting the use of LENR reactors is very different from restricting the knowledge of how to build them. That cat is already outside the bag.

  • Alex Fenrick

    Okay…..call me a conspiracy theorist if you may…but Patrick is right!! If you look at the comments made on this link by “Jacky” you will not only notice that “foundamental” is misspelled by Jacky the same way that Rossi does…but ALSO Rossi and Jacky are the only two people that abnormally put a space before and after sentences inside their parenthesis over and over…only the two of them from what I see. Also notice the vitriol used by “Jacky” and words like “guinea pig and sharks” in a Rossi fashion…as well as such a deep explaination…or yet defense of the situation. This is completely obvious and transparent to me. I can guess his motivation…but no matter the reason…THIS is the type of stuff that rightfully makes skeptics raise a red flag. Again you can call me a conspiracy theorist for pointing these things out….but one must admit it really does look shady. Here is the link (search for Jacky)

    http://rossilivecat.com/all.html

    • psi2u2

      I have to admit that this thought entered my mind also when I read it. It was a depressing thought so I shoved it aside.

      • Alex Fenrick

        I believe no matter what the real story is in all of this….we just got the story that Rossi wishes to be perpetuated directly from the “Jacky” comment. The more I read it…the more I am firmly convinced it is Rossi in disguise. Im not saying this is a smoking gun of any kind by any stretch of the imagination…just really interesting to see what perspective Rossi wishes to be spoken about or at very least casually dropped in. Interesting…

    • Phillip

      Search on that page for “( ” and you’ll find a number of “people” with the exact same style of writing and vernacular which makes it appear as though Rossi is having a number of phantom conversations with himself.

      • Alex Fenrick

        It looks like Rossi has been doing this for quite some time. It is amazing how time allows for such mundane things to become so apparent….

    • NCkhawk

      It has been obvious to those who closely study Rossi that he writes many of the questions on his JNOP in attempt to direct the narrative. There is overwhelming evidence in that regard. It is also one of the facts that are going to harm him in his litigation with IH. For some reason, Rossi has declared war on IH and he is just beginning to see the consequences of an asymmetric response. He also did not take US law into consideration while making some of his decisions. He is now the sum of his decisions and will be treated accordingly.

      • Alex Fenrick

        At first I was just looking at it as merely a window into what Rossi wants the narrative to be, but now thinking deeper, this is the type of thing that an opposing lawyer would be interested in and potentially damaging to Rossi. It is VERY possible that this behavior could be brought up in court…it happens quite often in character context in court. I hope for Rossi’s sake he used a few different proxy servers when he posted those comments…IP connection records tend to speak loudly…I’m sure he will now…

    • Michael W Wolf

      Yea, I’ve noticed Rossi does that with the parenthesis.

    • orsobubu

      Alex, on “foundamental”: since we in Italy say “fondamentale”, it is easy to put an O before the U, Reading your observation, I immediately asked to myself which was the correct form, because sincerely I’d have go (and surely went) with foundamental. If I could decide, I would like the correct form in english be officially changed in “fondamental”, In my opinion it is more correct than fundamental and in my opinion fundamental is ugly and historically wrong, also from a marxistical pint of view.

      • Alex Fenrick

        Orso…your perspective is a little off topic from the fact that Rossi and “Jacky” are the only two misspelling the word, plus both adding an extra space to parenthesis as well as similar dialog and perceived motive. You are also completely incorrect about your view on the word itself. The word fundamental is actually a derivative of a much older word than the french version “fondamental”. Fundamental actually derives much earlier from the 15th century word “fundamentalis”. Adding an “O” is not only wrong grammatically but in etymology as well as it was never contained in the root word. Finally that Latin came in handy lol…..

        • orsobubu

          haha yes,…. thx for the interesting explanation.. I was jocking, anyway

          maybe jackie is rossi for real, if I were him and I were the blog admin, and fighting a war for my product, I could not resist using it in every way possible to my advantage, knowing there are so many readers depending on it for key news

          • Alex Fenrick

            Oh I agree with you there Orso…I am sure most people would do just about anything possible especially if they were convinced of their technology. Unfortunately for Rossi though…his carelessness in his use of the fake poster does make him look a bit dishonest from some points of view. Again I am not saying this is anything significant….I just think he might want to be a bit more careful with moves like this that many would consider quite dishonest and shady.

  • Felix Meyer

    Some snakes want to forbit the e-cat.
    This is a complete nonsense, as the tests have showed that no dangerous radiation existes outside the e-cat.

  • Felix Meyer

    Some snakes want to forbit the e-cat.
    This is a complete nonsense, as the tests have showed that no dangerous radiation existes outside the e-cat.

    • roseland67

      Felix,
      The “snakes” may be energy mining, oil & gas developers, electric utilities, etc.

  • wpj

    Interesting comment from him

    “…….and because we have found just this week a way to make extremely difficult the reverse engineering”

    IH IP protection?

    • georgehants

      That’s good, it means he can send them out by the thousand all over the World for conformation.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Potting the container with resin, perhaps…

    • Ted-Z

      Only physical pre-treatment of nickel can be resistant to reverse engineering. Anything else (tungsten, platinum, palladium etc.) would be very easy to reverse engineer. My bet, as before, is that Rossi creates nano-crystals of nickel via cryogenic treatment (liquid nitrogen, 48 hrs, plus pounding/crushing of the particles). This is indeed very difficult to reverse engineer.

      • DrD

        I agree except the reverse engineering might be difficult but not impossible with the appropriate equipment. I suspect he has something subtle in mind, to hide it but at the end of the day some one will track it down. What worries me (for his sake and ours) is that in terms of his mass production he’s only talking in terms of many days per E-Cat not many E-Cats per day and as for E-Catx ???

        • Yes – that’s why IMHO Rossi’s core technology (assuming it works as reported) can’t escape into the public domain quickly enough. Thousands of developers and manufacturers urgently need to be involved, not just two.

          With an ever increasing number of individuals possessing some or most of the necessary information, MFMP and others sniffing limited success in producing LENR, and a very public court case pending, that is seeming more likely by the day.

    • Roland

      Field effects.

  • wpj

    Interesting comment from him

    “…….and because we have found just this week a way to make extremely difficult the reverse engineering”

    IH IP protection?

    • Alex Fenrick

      I found that statement interesting too….not only from a protection standpoint but from a technical standpoint. I am not saying that I blame Rossi for protecting his IP at this stage of the game ….just a curious statement for sure.

    • georgehants

      That’s good, it means he can send them out by the thousand all over the World for conformation.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Potting the container with resin, perhaps…

    • Ted-Z

      Only physical pre-treatment of nickel can be resistant to reverse engineering. Anything else (tungsten, platinum, palladium etc.) would be very easy to reverse engineer. My bet, as before, is that Rossi creates nano-crystals of nickel via cryogenic treatment (liquid nitrogen, 48 hrs, plus pounding/crushing of the particles). This is indeed very difficult to reverse engineer.

      • DrD

        I agree except the reverse engineering might be difficult but not impossible with the appropriate equipment. I suspect he has something subtle in mind, to hide it but at the end of the day some one will track it down. What worries me (for his sake and ours) is that in terms of his mass production he’s only talking in terms of many days per E-Cat not many E-Cats per day and as for E-Catx ???

        • Yes – that’s why IMHO Rossi’s core technology (assuming it works as reported) can’t escape into the public domain quickly enough. Thousands of developers and manufacturers urgently need to be involved, not just two.

          With an ever increasing number of individuals possessing some or most of the necessary information, MFMP and others sniffing limited success in producing LENR, and a very public court case pending, that is seeming more likely by the day.

      • Rene

        Creating difficulty is important for trade secrets. With few exceptions they do not last long. But, that may be enough for Rossi to profit from his IP, and to that I wish him speedy introduction to the market.
        The trade secret route is usually taken when the IP is such that it can be easily circumvented when exposed as a teaching in the patent or if the patent claims cannot be made sufficiently broad (or survive legal attack) to prevent circumvention. It suggests to me that the principles behind fuel treatment and LENR excitation permit more than a few implementation possibilities. It means MFMP can well find an unencumbered strong LENR technique.

    • Rene

      This is Rossi taking the path of trade secrets. Trade secrets are great until they are reverse engineered, then they vanish. So, whatever he does it is going to be contentious. For example, if any of the patent holders have reasonable belief that the Rossi trade secret infringes on their IP there will be a ton of litigation directed at him. On the other hand, if Rossi sees a patent describing his trade secret there is nothing he can do to protect it or stop them without revealing the secret as prior art.
      This strategy to use trade secrets and low cost manufacturing assumed the other parties do nto have the funds to mount legal attacks. That is a risky bet.
      It is going to be tough times for Rossi.

      • Roland

        No; you crush everybody out of the gates on multiple tactical axis’s, pile up huge money and brand recognition and then use the clout to strip the transgressors down to their underwear.

        Not everybody is inclined to hide like a mouse in a hole when the bass ring is already in hand.

        The product’s not called the E-Mouse…

        P.S. Some monumentally stupid people would hand the PLA the baton without a moment’s reflection on the ramifications for humanity.

    • Roland

      Field effects.

  • LuFong

    I don’t believe it was generally known that the Florida healthcare department shut down the 1MW plant test for a while, as ‘Jacky’ states. If true only Rossi or a few close associates of his would know about this. Hmmmmm…..

    “JT Vaughn, in the same very days was writing to the authorities that your plant was not working and used a physicist connected with your competitors to induce the healthcare dept. of Florida to close your plant and interrupt the test. “

  • cashmemorz

    It is even difficult to separate the straight forward ads from the Public Relations pieces shown as if they are actual news items shown between “real” news like car accidents and bombngs in war zones. “And now we have a bit of “news” about a new process from an Italian American who has purportedly made a device that can produce more energy than put in…..” Would that last bit in parentheses be considered news or an advertisement?

  • cashmemorz

    Of course its foolish. Especially those of the religious bent who actually do that kind of praying and waiting. Then when no result is forthcoming they compensate for it not happening as they wanted by saying “god works in mysterious ways” or some such explanation, usually taken from bible text.

  • kdk

    The observers were independent of Rossi, or rather they didn’t know each other, to my knowledge, prior to being approached about testing the E-Cat. The Lugano and Levi tests had some of the same people doing them. Penon did the 1 day test, iirc, and 400 day test. That doesn’t mean that they’re not independent.

    As to why he might not invite MIT people… they were accused of academic fraud by Eugene Mallove earlier on in the P&F days, falsifying data in order to get a null replication which would have been positive otherwise –and had vested interests in hot fusion research — which he believed enough to quit his job at MIT over. Bockris got accused of fraud only because his test showed above background levels of nuclear products. Maybe Rossi is worried about the same from scientists he perceives as having similar biases, or that most mainstream scientists don’t want to subject themselves to what P&F and Bockris were subjected to. The fact that the Levi and Lugano scientists weren’t from a major US university doesn’t disqualify them, but Uppsala and Bologna are highly respected institutions.

  • Engineer48
    • roseland67

      I the Ecat works as stated, it may well start a war

  • Engineer48
    • Alex Fenrick

      Forgive me…but aren’t we getting a little ahead of ourselves there….Nobel Prize for Peace? I don’t want to start a war…just found that a little humorous right now…maybe just a LITTLE premature? lol

      • Roland

        Of course you want to start a war, why quibble.

        • Alex Fenrick

          Oh come on Roland…you can’t give it a rest for even a minute of humor? I think its healthy to inject a little humor or sarcasm into serious discussions when done respectfully. Just laugh a little…you will be fine…

          • Bear1145

            You say laugh a little. Hell I miss my ex wife,but my aims getting better.

          • Alex Fenrick

            HAHA That one NEVER gets old for me Bear….my wife does NOT agree! LOL!!!!!

      • bachcole

        I’m OK with Nobel Prize for Peace, at least as a category. LENR is potentially that impactful. But we may be getting a little ahead of ourselves.

      • Rene

        Pretty much everything being posted in these forums are premature except for the MFMP reports and the discussions trying to understand the results and the hypotheses suggested as the framework of the effect.
        That’s the process, announce, speculate, discuss.

    • roseland67

      I the Ecat works as stated, it may well start a war

  • Ramesh Mat

    I’m a journalist based in Chennai, India. Can anyone tell me if the Italian government has taken a position on the E-Cat, and if so, what it is? Likewise, what’s been the stand in general of the Italian Press?

    • suhas R

      Can you guide us regarding the role and involvement of the Indian press ,Indian TV Media on the pressing National need of Technology like the LENR Technology and its development efforts in the country?
      Some people will be pleased to present Info to you if required on the Tech and its advantages
      We wish somebody from the Media seriously wakes up to the need of the hour when 33% population of the country goes without basic water and electricity requirement .

      • Not much mention of Indian work on cold fusion / LENR has been made here – possibly because it seems to be forbidden territory in the Indian press. A Google search on ‘cold fusion lenr india’ produces a good crop of links though. You might also search for information on Mahadeva Srinivasan.

  • clovis ray

    No licenses needed , no ionising radiation, the regulatory body has already cleared it,,as not a threat,

  • Alex Fenrick

    If he truly does not wish to do so…then that is a true shame for his reputation, the industry and potentially the world if he does “have the goods”. If Rossi is not able to do so because of contractual or legal reasons…I respect that…but I would reject his position if your statement in yelling bold letters is true. All speculation either way.

  • Not much mention of Indian work on cold fusion / LENR has been made here. A Google search on ‘cold fusion lenr india’ produces a good crop of links though.