Rossi: 'Snakes' Alerting Authorities Asking for Prohibition of the E-Cat

After Andrea Rossi announced that three more E-Cat orders have been placed by the parent company of the customer who used the 1MW E-Cat plant, there has been a lot of discussion on who the customer might be, and some questions to Rossi on the JONP about the subject.

Rossi said that he is under NDA with the customer, and can’t give any information about who they are, or where they operate — and said they don’t want to attract the attention of the blogosphere. When Bernie Koppenhofer suggested that the publicity from the customer talking about satisfaction with the E-Cat and cost savings might be very beneficial, Rossi responded with this comment:

Andrea Rossi
April 15, 2016 at 11:48 AM
Bernie Koppenhofer:
Our Customer wants to work in peace.
Just for you to know: we have evidence ( undisputable evidence) that all the guys of the family of the snakes have sent libraries of letters to all the possible authorities asking for the prohibition of the E-Cat because it emits toxic radiations. These letters, that have been sent from the usual and well known and very vociferous snakes, ( our attorney got due copies of them ) give evidence of the fact that they want to kill the E-Cat NOT because they think it does not work, but because they DO think that it works: otherwise they could not think to stop it sending authorities to check ionizing radiations OUTSIDE the E-Cats. Your intelligence will allow you to make the logic deductions.
All the other considerations depend on our product’s distribution in the market, let in peace our Customer(s).
Warm Regards,
A.R.

We are well aware how the E-Cat is a lightning rod for passionate support as well as harsh criticism. We have seen two incidents in the past where nuclear regulation agencies (in Florida and North Carolina) have been alerted by individuals about E-Cat operations and officers have been sent out to investigate, so it’s not hard to imagine this being done in other areas.

I can understand that an E-Cat customer doesn’t want negative attention from government authorities, but if E-Cat doesn’t produce harmful radiation, then what would be the harm of having some inspectors check it out? I the E-Cat is a commercial product, that is going to happen at some point. You can’t keep them hidden forever, and I think it’s best to get this issue out in the open in the early days of the technology to hasten its acceptance.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    It is time for the Hollywood screenplay writers to warm up their fingers.

  • LuFong

    This brings to mind the earlier investigation by the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services where the report dated Jan 13, 2015 of an interview December 11, 2014 with JT Vaughn. The report states that that JT Vaughn indicated that “Mr Rossi did not appear to be credible (paraphase).”

    This is only a few months before the start of the 1MW test. Could IH by that time have written Rossi off?

  • Barbierir

    If the lawsuit continues it’s inevitable that the real customer will be called to give testimony, no way that this information will be left out of the proceeding

    • Fibber McGourlick

      I’m not joking. This is a serious suggestion. End the turmoil before it gets out of hand in this simple way. At least publish the ERV report. Maybe it’ll stop the nonsense.

  • C. Kirk

    A horror story if your heavily invested in fossil fuels….. A comedy about flat earthers

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Action. Rossi is action man, actor.

  • Tom59

    This is all deja vu and dragging on and on. I am sure a demo unit at up at the Kimmel Institute or at the upcoming meeting in Sendai, along with giving all details + the secret sauce would kickstart the technology. This would end this terrible situation and I just don’t believe that we cannot convince academia, Google, Bosch, Bill Gates etc to invest. Making everything public makes this thing unstoppable. Not doing it and continuing the present path would result in never ending frustration. It is a moral obligation to the world to go fully public now.

    • HS61AF91

      Consider going public in the manner Leonardo/Rossi is doing is the only way possible. In that other ways E-Cats could be gulped down the throat of existing energy interests. That would be very detrimental to humanity, and Love, humanity’s salvation, would experience setback.

  • Gerrit

    Snakes and Puppeteers. Now that Rossi got the F9 key fixed, soon his caps lock key will be stuck again.

  • Brokeeper

    So now is SGS, the world’s leading inspection, verification, testing and certification company in trouble for ceritifing the industrial E-Cat? I think they should team up with Rossi.

  • DrD

    I wouldn’t blame AR if he abandonned his plans and set up mass production abroad. Anywhere that wants an energy monopoly. I’m being cynical about the monopoly but it could certainly come to that.

  • Does It matter if Mr Rossi and the E-Cat have to be checked out for ionising radiation.
    Obviously Mr Rossi is radiating Infra-red, also the E-cat.
    I do hope that they chase him down and check him out in full public gaze.
    I have followed “Cold-Fusion” since 1989.
    I was disappointed then that the results proved nebulas.
    So I welcome more ionising radiation be shed on the phenomena.
    I do hope that the “others” will continue their endeavour’s in the search for the grail.
    Enough, enough I cry lets BE having you Mr Rossi, you need to start dancing under the follow spot.

    • DrD

      You didn’t know? He has already been through this and passed.

      • What was his pass mark?

    • Steve Savage

      twobob … Back again, what a treat !

      • I never go away.
        Like a bad dose of the clap.

        • Karl Venter

          So how do we get to see the erv report
          Rossi lawyer does not want to release it – too much risk of groups( Like Us) finding fault with it and IH would then use it against Rossi.
          So IH should release the report in their rebuttle / response to the lawsuit – cant say the report is bull if you dont produce it?
          But this may not be good for Rossi so better that they(Rossi) release first and prepare for the possible negative impact it could have on their case.
          We can only speculate and wait

          • Omega Z

            The last word from Rossi was it will be published after it is presented in court proceedings. We’ll have to wait and see if that’s in entirety or a truncated form

          • Michael W Wolf

            Yes, there are good honest companies and there are those that the SEC rules against because they are immoral and operate outside the rules of fair play. Like IH.

    • HS61AF91

      I think nebuals do not need proof, as in is an interstellar cloud of dust, hydrogen, helium and other ionized gases. Sort of reminds men of the inner e-Cat workings.

      • There you go!
        You sawed straight through the particles.

    • kdk

      You might be surprised how many disgruntled nuclear physicists are out there and willing to put the effort into publicly stating the E-Cat is safe, if they believe that it is.

  • HS61AF91

    Ask the US Navy! Do not however, expect a response!

  • Billy Jackson

    I do not understand the mindset that allows people to claim one set of information while ignoring or decrying falsely any information that conflicts their bias. For people who claim to be intelligent i see a severe lack of evidence to back that claim so far.

  • HS61AF91

    Right on, smear the skeptics and agitators, those who disparage the truth of e-Cat energy and the future it will bring, such as the authors of the article I objected to above. In addition, half a page on eatworld (sic) is better by far then a void of silence.

  • wpj

    How is he smearing when he questions the snake Krivit? Most of us don’t and just accept it. How many of us have even bothered to respond?

  • dave

    Although I desire as much as anyone the full introduction of LENR, I have to keep my reasons on a valid scientific plane. My desire is based on the good to the human family and the environment that will come from cheap abundant energy. The hype of dangerous AGW is supported by NO empirical evidence. The models that prognosticate doom are fatally flawed and have been getting further from the data for 2 decades. Look for global cooling after November and a cooling trend for the next 20-40 years. Cold folks will need the E-Cat even more especially if we cut CO2 enough to hamper the great greening it has caused so far as we put some of it back into the atmosphere where it came from.

    • Roland

      Here’s a dead simple graphic representation of atmospheric temperature data going back to the 1890s:

      http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/hottest-year-on-record/

      If you, and like minded individuals, fail to understand the implications of this trend and it persists because of your collective obduracy there will be an extraordinary price paid by future generations, starting with the already disadvantaged, and an enormous list of at risk species.

      Your ignorance of how CO2 persists in the atmosphere and oceans and propagates environmental effects is nothing short of stunning.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Perhaps the 1883 eruption of Krakatoa cooled the planet.

        • Roland

          If you have watched the graphic unfold the effects of the Krakatoa event are obvious; vulcanists are in general accord that the climatological impact of even Krakatoa scale events are limited to a few years and this, quite obviously, is borne out by the data display.

          • AdrianAshfield

            Roland, look at the latest satellite temperatures shown here
            http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

            Then look at Fig 2b (p7) from Prof Akasofu’s paper here.
            http://people.iarc.uaf.edu/~sakasofu/pdf/two_natural_components_recent_climate_change.pdf

          • Roland

            Abstract: A recent article which has set forth new interpretations of Earth’s recent climate history has included some questions of authentic scientific inquiry, particularly related to the impact of ocean oscillations on atmospheric temperatures. In fact, this very issue is currently being investigated by multiple research groups. On the other hand, the claim that a two-century linear temperature increase is a recovery from a recent cool period is not supported by the data. Furthermore, this thermal recovery hypothesis is not connected to any physical phenomenon; rather it is a result of a simplistic and incorrect curve-fitting operation. Other errors in the article are: the claim that the heating of the Earth has halted, misunderstanding of the relationship between carbon dioxide concentration and the resultant radiative forcing, and a failure to account for forcings other than carbon dioxide (such as other greenhouse gases, atmospheric aerosols, land use changes, etc.). Each of these errors brings serious question to the conclusions drawn in the referenced article. The simultaneous occurrence of all of these errors in a single study guarantees that its conclusions cannot be supported and, in fact, are demonstrably incorrect.

            A link to the complete paper can be found at:

            http://www.mdpi.com/2225-1154/1/2/76

            Granting, of course, that you’re actually interested in learning what the rest of the climate science community makes of Akasofu’s theory.

          • georgehants

            Inverse
            The often-ostracised research is getting a resurgence of attention
            Kastalia Medrano
            April 15, 201
            old fusion has historically received more attention from screenwriters
            than journalists. Recently, though, the media has started getting into
            the game. There are the breathless (for Scandinavia anyway) stories about the new research coming out of Norway. There is the pretty epic thinkpiece in Aeon. There is the reaction to that thinkpiece in Popular Mechanics.
            And there is just a ton of easily dismissed nonsense out of India. The
            stories all make internal sense, but the broader narrative is hard to
            follow. What do we talk about when we talk about cold fusion?
            https://www.inverse.com/article/14355-cold-fusion-is-news-again-but-the-search-for-the-energy-holy-grail-ain-t-over

          • AdrianAshfield

            The typical response from those who ignore the falsification of the IPCC projections is that Akasofu has not given a physical explanation. He didn’t do so because, as he says, there is not proof of the cause. The fact remains it happened if you believe the satellite measurements.. The manual alteration of the land station readings (homogenization) is about equal to the claimed rise in temperature by the proponents of AGW.
            .
            The sea level rise has remained remarkably constant (not accelerating) ever since the end of the Little Ice Age, despite the glaring headlines that we will soon all be under water.

            What precisely is wrong with Fig 2b? I can show you lots of papers to back it up. The IPCC has got the climate sensitivity wrong, probably through not understand the effects of cloud cover, and it looks like the effect of CO2 is about half what the IPCC claims. To have that large an error uncorrected for so long is pathetic. As a result I am not inclined to believe anything they say.

            Although the connection to solar influence is not proven, the Maunder Minimum is factual and the sun looks like it is going into a similar state. It will be interesting to see if the Russian scientists are correct forecasting that the world will start to cool in the 2030s.

          • AdrianAshfield

            Roland, ps. See also
            Do the Adjustments to Land Surface Air Temperature Data Increase the Global Warming Rate?
            https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/04/16/do-the-adjustments-to-land-surface-air-temperature-data-
            increase-the-global-warming-rate/

            https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/04/16/march-2016-global-surface-landocean-and-lower-troposphere-temperature-anomaly-update/.

            Then explain what the IPCC forecast has not been falsified.

      • Private Citizen
        • Roland

          You mean as more is learned and the data sets are correspondingly modified the underlying trends that have been obvious to the informed continue to be supported by the data, how bizarre…

          P.S. Did you actually go to the link and watch the graphic? The beauty of this representation of the data is that it doesn’t require literacy, a grounding in basic science, math, or critical thinking skills.

        • Zack Iszard

          The phrase “You can’t write this stuff” comes to mind.

          Frankly, I have to come right out and say that y opinion of Rossi has taken a nose-dive after he pressed charges on his benefactors for not giving him even more money. I woke from a dream, it feels, as I realize that without the vetting of IH, all we really have are Rossi’s own words and a sea of CYA.

          We can debate the intentions of the parties involved all day, guessing with our best collective theories of mind. To me, though, IH’s involvement was the most important aspect of Rossi’s credibility, and the only external voice consistently vouching for Rossi’s claims.

          IH is reacting in a way that makes it seem like they only just recently realized they’ve been duped, deliberately or otherwise. Speculation, yes, but it frankly seems most plausible. They responded curtly to Rossi’s lawsuit in a CYA fashion, and have remained quiet since. The fact that they’ve apparently reverted so quickly on their previous stance after several months of shaky relations with Rossi isn’t surprising if:
          – one of their engineers uncovered a significant systematic measurement error (SSME) that had been falsely validating performance claims, and that this engineer couldn’t explain away the possibility that this SSME had been ongoing for the duration of the 1 MW pilot plant trial. ANY DOUBT WHATSOEVER is enough for investors with many millions on the line to back out, including IH, and thus the lawsuit, which really is about the E-cat’s performance as claimed.

          The sort of conspiratorial thinking required to explain IH’s actions as a deliberate fraud of Rossi’s IP is less likely true than many of the presuppositions of the “pathoskeptics”. As much as I also abhor such a negative and incessant tone, Rossi IS playing straight into that narrative right now, all else unknown. I will go ahead and say that if Rossi settles out of court and never has to prove the E-cat in a more rigorous environment, I will feel that I wasted a large fraction of my hope for humanity. The fact that he selected a low-brow pro-bono law firm to defend him is very troubling, because they will likely run out of funds during discovery and force a settlement, which will almost certainly not involve a court ordered demonstration of the E-cat.

          Let’s say the E-cat works exactly as promised, and described in the ERV (of which we’ve only been privy to a sprinkling of the conclusions there-in). IH decides they don’t want to deal with Rossi anymore, or that they really wouldn’t want to pay him $89 mil now or ever, for whatever reason. Having secured the bulk of his IP (as of 2013) they migrate that IP to another holding of theirs and begin work under the table, while their legal team gears up to destroy Rossi’s claims and shew him away. What happens in 3 years when IH finally has a 1st release using some of Rossi’s IP? Would they hope to merely sweep under the rug any relation they once had with Rossi? That would be damning in the eyes of most potential customers, and as such is an unlikely strategy.

          I feel that Rossi’s claim here, about nuclear inspectors coming to sht the whole thing down, is more an appeal to his blogsphere than an actual identification of trouble, especially since any inspectors in the US would have no authority in the UK. If the E-cat produces no harmful radiation as we’ve been led to believe, then nuclear inspectors wouldn’t be a threat.

          This has been a long-winded way of saying that I believe alternate explanations of events besides “Rossi vs. The World” are at least worth considering. As far as I can see, the E-cat saga turned away from progress and toward more delays and hand-waving with the lawsuit. The partnership with IH was the best thing that ever happened to the E-cat! Ultimately, the E-cat, regardless of what version we’re dealing with, has to work without Rossi present. If IH had any doubt of this for any reason at all, that explains their resistance to paying Rossi his dues.

          • Buck

            You strike me as being an APCO astroturf troll looking to float a newer theory that will somehow lead us into a confused state of mind . . . leaving us unable to determine the truth. As part of this, you overlook many events that undermine your theory.

            I think IH’s inability to find a customer willing to test the 1MW Plant is a most telling point. Rossi finally acted and found an interested customer relatively quickly, at least as compared to IH’s effort. This simply sets the tone for IH’s intent from the beginning. And their filing of patent(s) pointing to duplication does not guide one to your interpretation. And of course, it is important to not ignore deeper history such as the Lugano report with its wildly unexpected (at least to us) results.

          • I concur. I imagine we will be seeing many more new, obviously intelligent, identities popping up with similar well written and superficially well-argued posts that tangentially accuse Rossi of fraud, or otherwise try to drip-feed doubts into these discussions.

            Apologies, ‘Zack’ if you are a genuine commenter just wishing to straighten out all the dupes on this blog – but that isn’t really necessary or wanted, thank you.

          • Buck

            Agaricus,

            I think the strangest argument of all is that of fraud.

            The reason I say this is because of Rossi’s history in Italy. For better or worse, a serious investor will not ignore the mess of Petrol Dragon, the mafia, the corrupt legal system, and Rossi. It sets the investor on edge so as to be mindful of potential fraud.

            It seems reasonable to argue that Rossi jumped through a lot of hoops with the different independent third party reports as well as the ERV tests under the mindful eyes of those looking to protect their money. Meaning that IH focused on ensuring that those who did the testing were “clean” as well as capable.

            And then we move into the 1-Year Test where with the assumption that as the utility bills on a monthly basis, it was actually made up of 11+ independent monthly tests. And to push it, it was actually 352 daily tests given all the monitoring and accumulated data points for temperature and power in/out. All done under the 24/7 eye of those cautious about protecting their money.

            So, within weeks, maybe 8 – 12 weeks, they all were facing the fundamentally “crazy” performance of COP = +50.

            IH asks for substantiation . . . they had an additional ~8 months to substantiate the first 3. And given Rossi’s complaint, the overall performance continued to maintain the COP=+50 average. Did Rossi refuse to give IH or the ERV access so as to validate this “crazy” performance? That sort of behavior goes far beyond the broad term of “substantiate” towards fraud, a term IH was likely very sensitive to given Rossi’s already known history.

            Only time will tell how everyone behaved after the end of the 3rd month of the 1-Year Test.

          • Yes, fraud does seem unlikely in the extreme at this point. The only thing that seems reasonably certain is that there is very much more to this story than we can even guess, based on the very incomplete set of evidence (mostly ‘Rossi says’) that we have access to. As you say, time will tell.

          • Michael W Wolf

            IH sitting on their hands for 1 year deliberately breaching the contract is more than Rossi says. I mean if it wasn’t deliberate, then how incompetent is that? Risking 11.5 million of their investors money? But even though they didn’t find a test facility, they filed a patent where IH claimed to have built and tested a reactor of 11 COP. It is the only thing IH has claimed under oath of the patent. Everything else that followed honest people have to admit it seems IH is being dishonest. Fraudulent? I don’t know, but the contract problems we absolutely know about is on IH.

            The evidence that IH never intended a test or pay Rossi the 89 million is very logical here. For anyone to blame any of this on Rossi now is contrary to what we know. Now we find the SEC has ruled against Cherokee, pointing to the fact that IH and company are willing to play outside the rules of the game. There is something shady going on here and it all points to IH.

            Their public statement is meaningless, and what they claimed under oath so far supports Rossi’s adherence to the contract. We can assume Rossi breached the contract by not giving all IP know how to IH, but that is just hinted at in a worthless public statement, legally speaking. Rossi is being wrongfully ostracized and deserves better under the circumstances as we know it.

          • Buck

            Open question for one and all:

            What is the definition of the timely transfer of IP?

            Is it reasonable to cut some some slack for Andrea being in the shipping container for 16-18 hours/day, while evolving the E-Cat to the E-Cat X and then to the E-Cat QuarkX . . . All the while, saying that IH has the license rights to the new evolving E-Cat products?

          • Omega Z

            At this time, there is no E-Cat X or E-Cat Quark IP as it is still all R&D. However, according to the contract AND “Rossi says” on JONP, Industrial heat would have rights to that IP when the R&D is concluded as well as any other future technological advances. So speculation as to this being a problem has no bearing on the dispute. At least it Shouldn’t.

          • Buck

            OZ,

            I agree that when something is in R&D, there is no real pressure to share an IP that is not settled.

          • Roland

            And exactly what puts you in a position to ‘guarantee’ the capabilities of IH’s legal team?

            We can infer that that they can afford excellent lawyers but your assertion puts you on a very different plain…

            Then again you may be making a Trumpian assertion, i.e. essentially meaningless.

            Still, the tenor of your general commentary does suggest a particular interpretation and, possibly, and an explanation for your sudden and persistent presence in our ranks.

          • LarryJ

            You are wrong. Rossi is taking one rational step after the other and each step brings him closer to products in the market.
            “Substantially nothing to show”

            1. Demo of a 1 MW reactor in 2011
            2. Ferraro ecat test published in 2013
            3. Lugano ecat test published in 2014
            4. Patent received in 2015
            5. Conclusion of

            The fact that he is unwilling or unable to involve us in the process is irrelevant. If he were like any other industry then all of this would be happening completely out of sight. The fact that he shares any of it with us is a minor miracle for which I am thankful.

          • Roland

            No; you crush everybody out of the gates on multiple tactical axis’s, pile up huge money and brand recognition and then use the clout to strip the transgressors down to their underwear.

            Not everybody is inclined to hide like a mouse in a hole when the bass ring is already in hand.

            The product’s not called the E-Mouse…

            P.S. Some monumentally stupid people would hand the PLA the baton without a moment’s reflection on the ramifications for humanity.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Rossi may have a case of technicality. I mean technically R&D may not be considered IP that he would have to transfer to IH until it is out of R&D.

          • Omega Z

            Actually Buck, We do not know what the “average” COP is. If I recall, the report indicated a large portion if the time it was COP>50. However, it doesn’t take much to chisel away from that number.

            The point is even a small error in calculations or instrument readings can put a serious whammy on the COP>50. It all evolves around the diminishing returns once you exceed COP>20. However, once at or below COP>20, it requires a much larger error to be off by much.

          • Buck

            OZ,

            if you read Paragraph 73 of the complaint, you will find Rossi’s presentation of the ERV results. This of course assumes Rossi is quoting accurately.

            Regarding the possibility of ERV error in measurement, time will tell how his methods stand up to scrutiny. However, for reasons stated in another post in this thread, I find it a challenge to entertain that this reported COP of +60 wasn’t critically evaluated beginning by the 3rd month if not sooner in the 1-Year Test.

            Of course, we wait for how all of this stands up in court.

            One thing I look forward to is the comparison of the mystery customer’s before and after utility bills . . . an economic test to the efficacy of the installed E-Cat.

          • Steve Swatman

            One could equally use your argument and put a serious whammy only a COP of 50, It may be that errors in instrument readings were hiding a COP of 60+, potential errors and arguments can work both ways.

          • cashmemorz

            That kind of attitude is a no-no for skeptics. For skeptics it all has to be negative. That is a definition of skeptic, otherwise they would be called optimists.

          • Omega Z

            Keep in mind that the maximum COP is limited by the necessity of power applied even during SSM. According to Rossi, even in SSM, approximately 1.3KW to 1.4KW are applied. In addition, SSM is not continuous and we don’t know the average percentage. If SSM is 75% of the time, COP is halved.

            Of course in Full context, COP is a fallacy. The E-cat has no COP any more then an IC engine.

          • Michael W Wolf

            They serve only to keep the world from moving forward. Always have, always will. They create nothing and get their fuel from those who are would be creators.

          • LarryJ

            This court case will run on for years. You might get the demo in you seek in 2020 but whenever it is it will be moot by then.

          • cashmemorz

            IH has smart people running it. As such they mean something simple and elegant by “unsubstantiated”. That word means that something is as claimed but only needs further more definitive proof. By not paying AR, they are forcing his hand. AR is doing the substantiating by selling the E-Cats. When a few have reached several customers and have run for a few weeks or months, at that point the validity of the E-Cats function at or over COP 3 at a few customer installations is all that is needed. If this doesn’t happen AR losses everything and IH at least saves their last installment to AR.

          • Omega Z

            As I’ve posted before, I was never fully on board with Industrial Heat. I gave them the benefit of doubt because Rossi thought well of them.

            However, with this dust up between them, more has come to light about Industrial Heat’s business practices.(Their MO) They create and make use of many (Name Here LLC’s) for different projects and make small investments(Mostly other peoples money**) in Brownfields. They then get others to foot the bill including tax payer backed issued bonds. 10’s of Millions.

            ** Mostly other peoples money primarily comes from mom & pop pension funds. Does Woodford ring a bell…

            Should things workout, they collect the lions share of the profit. Should it go bankrupt(AndMany Have), other Entities and the Tax payer are stuck for the cost of the party.

            Take Note:
            It was “NEVER” Industrial Heat’s intention to manufacture and sell LENR products. Their intent was to corner or obtain Intellectual Property then repackage it and sell either License or sell it to the Highest bidder. That is their MO. They do not produce or build anything. They are merely opportunistic exploitors as most all Venture Capitalists are.

            Don’t be concerned of Industrial Heat/Darden’s investment in Rossi. They done recouped their 11.5 Million$ from other investors. The same way they do with Brownfield projects.

            The numbers are fictious, but here’s how that works. I bought the manufacturing and marketing rights to E-cat for 11.5 Million. To get in on this, you need to pay me say, 50 M$ for 10% of my shares.

            It is an inopportune time for Industrial heat to have a positive outcome of the test. They do not have all their ducks in a row yet. They are not ready… They try to put the brakes on.

          • bachcole

            Nice.

          • psi2u2

            “After he pressed charges on his benefactors for not giving him even more money.”

            No, it was after they did not fulfill their contractual obligation to make a payment to him. This is not at all the same thing as what you say. Had they a legitimate reason for not paying? Maybe. Maybe not. But your summary of the case prejudges it unfairly.

          • bachcole

            Perfect.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I agree that the SSME option is not yet off the table. Especially, Rossi’s carefully adjusted waveform might be able to fool most meters, including those used by electricity providers. This would be a catastrophe, though, and that’s why many people do not even want to think about it.

            At least, if it could be shown that the output energy of the 1 MW plant was measured correctly, an error in the input measurement would seem unlikely, unless they had a line that was capable of delivering 1 MW of continuous power. As far as I remember, it has been said that they had only a 250 kW terminal. That could be verified easily.

            Regarding the output, a testimonial of the customer (the company behind JC Products) might be helpful. If it is Johnson Matthey or an enterprise of similar calibre nobody would doubt their statements, I think.

      • dave

        Roland
        Bloomberg’s graph is only for 125 years. That’s barely than two Pacific cycles and less than 10% of a Milankovich cycle. It was warmer than now 1000 years ago,and 2000 years ago and 3000 years ago. If you look at temps from ice cores it has been a cooling trend for 8000 years since the Holocene maximum. Google JAMAL MUNSHI and read his three latest papers-only a few pages each, to see why I have doubts about CO2 leading us to ruin. Check out CO2 Coalition, or the lectures by Professor Murray Salby or Professor Richard Lindzen. There is ample proof of the poor science used to push the CO2 political agenda.

        • kdk

          Assuming global warming isn’t caused by our huge increase in CO2 production, the C02 and other aerial pollutants are bad for our health, and the oceans where humanity gets lots of its food, and millions die every year from air pollution.

          • radvar

            FF = fossil fuels
            AGW = anthrogenic (human caused) global warming
            IP = intellectual property

          • dave

            Co2 is not a pollutant. It is a colorless, odorless trace gas, that makes up about .04% of of our atmosphere and is necessary for all life on earth. At .015% no plants will grow and the food chain is shorted out. Increasing its concentration helps all plants grow and helps them use less water as they grow. If we have pollution problems we should address the pollutants as we have in the past. U.S. air is cleaner than it was in the 70s and is getting cleaner all the time. Poor countries that use wood or animal dung have real pollution problems as do developing countries like China that don’t mandate scrubbers and other pollution control on their power generation facilities.

          • kdk

            I guess we should go for broke then.

          • gdaigle

            Not to draw too fine a point, but…
            From the American Heritage Science Dictionary:

            pollutant – A substance or condition that contaminates air, water, or soil. Pollutants can be artificial substances, such as pesticides and PCBs, or naturally occurring substances, such as oil or carbon dioxide, that occur in harmful concentrations in a given environment. Heat transmitted to natural waterways through warm-water discharge from power plants and uncontained radioactivity from nuclear wastes are also considered pollutants.

          • dave

            So far there is no good evidence that Co2 occurs in harmful concentration or that human released Co2 controls the atmospheric concentration (see Munshi’s paper). The space station allows 8000 parts per million in their atmosphere without adverse effects.

        • Roland

          Atmospheric CO2 content has vacillated between 150ppm, ice ages, and 280ppm, lush warm periods, over the last 600,000 years by the analysis of Antarctic ice core samples. Within that timeframe every significant geological and climatological event that bears on the issue before us has left analyzable fingerprints in the form of dust, unusual isotopes, gas balances, spores, other lifeforms, and a host of other indicators from which existing conditions at points within the timeframe can be inferred with reasonable accuracy.

          During this timeframe there is no evidence that the current rate of change in gas balances and average temperatures we are seeing in the data from the last hundred years has occurred, in fact nothing comes remotely close to the current rate of change in all those years.

          There’s a concept whose grasp is essential to this debate, water is 5 times better than any other known substance at storing heat; by which I mean that it requires 5 times the energy to raise a specific weight of water 1 degree in temperature as the next most able storage medium.

          The heat isn’t being stored in the atmosphere, excepting in water vapour, it is being stored in liquid water. CO2 also dissolves in water; in sufficient concentrations the acidity of oceans and lakes are effected in ways that have direct bearing on all the life forms that use calcium to build protective shells.

          The combination of elevated ocean temperatures and acidity is having visible effects that are, to say the least, unprecedented. The oldest continuously living organism on the planet is a coral reef off of Bermuda, it is over 360,000 years old. It’s dying. It’s temperature sensitive; the waters around it are to warm. It’s had no time to adapt to the changes that doom it. It’s one of many all round the world in similar straights.

          One of the prime movers, Exxon, in manufacturing doubt, with the able assistance of APCO, about humanities’ role in the rate of change in average temperatures recanted years ago.

          A number of other corporations, such as the bankrupt Peabody Coal Company and the ever popular Koch Industries (through a truly impressive constellation of front organizations) are carrying on the good fight to stave off the consequences of operating the very dirtiest carbon businesses in America (they win the top spots decade after decade) with the able assistance of APCO’s stable of ‘experts’ (i.e. people who have no training in the relevant fields of study but will pretend to know all for chump change; my personal favourite is a jolly looking sociologist who was an ‘expert’ on the non-existent effects of smoking tobacco and will ardently testify that it’s just weather and ‘there’s nothing to worry about’. His ‘professional’ opinions cost a measly $60,000 a year in ‘grant’ money. He specializes in the sneering putdown; it’s like watching Santa Claus telling children why they’ll never be loved by anyone, ever, cause they’re just so, so stupid for even thinking of disagreeing with him. A stunningly effective, very convincing, utterly sociopathic liar).

          American is distinguished by, among many more edifying traits, harbouring by far the largest percentage of the populace, among first world nations, to deny what both their own senses and science make abundantly clear. We have already committed to a course of action, changing the gas balances in the atmosphere, that can’t be retreated from in any meaningful time frame and we’re aggravating the scale of the problem daily while guessing about where the point of no return for the current ecology of the planet is.

          This isn’t like denying that your three pack a day habit is affecting your health, I smoked two packs a day for way to long, or aggravating your kid’s asthma. We’re all free to commit slow suicide in any number of ways; when we’re ready to take the whole world down with us the ethical balance shifts in favour of caution about what’s inadequately understood and potentially threatening on a vast scale.

          Careless people undergo horrendous life altering events without ever noticing they’re in trouble till it’s to late to respond, do we really want to find out if a species can do this too?

          I don’t.

          • dave

            I appreciate your angst but must disagree as I have been looking into this discussion for several years and have seen good scientists refute the alarmist point of view about any eminent dangerous effects of CO2 from our activities. Here are a couple of graphs that display the non-correlation of temp and CO2 and the fact that our temps are not unprecedented. http://www.biocab.org/Geological_Timescale.jpg ,http://www.climate4you.com/images/GISP2%20TemperatureSince10700%20BP%20with%20CO2%20from%20EPICA%20DomeC.gif Munshi’s papers show there is no good correlation of emissions and CO2 in the atmosphere. If you want to look into this side of the discussion start with Burt Rutan’s review of the data as well as “The Right Climate Stuff” a group of retired NASA scientists with impeccable credentials and no ax to grind.
            That said, I still think that the emergence of new energy sources is the most important event of my waning lifetime for the future of humanity and freedom so I truly hope Rossi is the man I have envisioned and not the scam artist some are declaring him to be. I wait with much anticipation for each new tidbit of news.

          • wpj

            I’m impressed!

            Will it be for steam or thermal transfer fluid (assuming that it will work with that)?

          • bachcole

            Nice, dave. Those graphs freedom me from the AGW hysteria prison.

            Remember that Rossi may be difficult to get along with, he may even be losing his marbles, but there is still Levi 2013 and Lugano 2014, two very difficult to dispute facts. The LENR+ Juggernaut is on it way, whether Rossi is driving it or not.

          • dave

            I’m sorry my reply got lost so I will try again.
            I am convinced by good science and ample study that the CO2 apocalypse is over stated. If you want to check out a small portion of the resources on this statement look at Bob Carter’s books and presentations. If you are numbers guy check out Burt Rutan’s comments or The Right Climate Stuff (a group of retired NASA scientists).
            That said, I believe the emergence of new energy tech is the most important development in my waning lifetime. I see it as protecting people, the environment, and human freedom. I truly hope Rossi is the man I have envisioned and not the scam artist some think.

      • psi2u2

        Here’s a whole website of reading for you to consider the “other side”: https://wattsupwiththat.com/

        In any case, however, whatever one’s belief about AGW, Rossi is not responsible for it. He may have part of the solution, but jumping up and down and blaming him for not having the solution on someone else’s schedule is pointless and off topic.

    • Job001

      Well, dave, you’ve bought the BS of lawyers on retainers, i.e. half of which is paid for by you and I as taxpayers. Truth is, next to nothing is absolutely provable. The half truth nonsense is that there is NO empirical evidence. On the other hand, climate scientists overwhelmingly, in excess of 93% and increasing, agree that AGW is a settled fact, just not as deniers simplify it into a silly denial model only about temperature and absolute proof.

      For instance, climate story uses many complicated models, statistical correlation, it is not just about temperature, but chemistry, heat storage, heat absorption and reflection, energy circulation and not about something impossible like absolute proof or temperature change only.

      Absolute proof was something the tobacco lawyers righteously demanded also, a similar “Red herring” argument, since science is not about absolute proof at all, and AGW is not about warming only nor absolute proof either but serious unbiased science rather than big money and defending continued excess FF waste promoted by sociopathic greed.

      • psi2u2

        I used to agree with you. Before I read up.

      • Omega Z

        “unbiased science”
        No such beast exists.

  • Guru Khalsa

    It is sad that after all this time we are back to the snakes and the secret customer. The Rossi IH partnership gave Rossi a certain legitimacy that can now seemly only be regained by a revealing and successful lawsuit. The fact that Rossi seems to be difficult to work with doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the goods, but how good are they, and will we ever find out before a new game changing tech arrives and nobody cares any longer.
    The IH betrayal, the dark money, the global economy and other nefarious subplots certainly adds spice to the story, but I am left with the feeling that i just don’t have enough information to make a reasonable guess as to what is the truth. Somebody should write a book- oh wait, they already did.

  • Alan DeAngelis
  • Omega Z

    So if Rossi does not receive payment, All IH Licensed territory is up for grabs as the contract would be null and void..

  • Alain Samoun

    Hi Clovis
    Well, all scenarios are possible at this point,hoping that the end of the story will be like the one of a Disney movie…They marry and had a lot of little cats 😉

  • Pekka Janhunen

    Connexion

  • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

    This is pure speculation. Rossi seems to be trying to get his fans on his side.
    It may be true but what we really need now is proofs.

    He says that he is developing 3 new plants.

    So he should give us photographs of the manufacturing of these plants. They dont need to show anything that can be used by the competitors but something to see that they are really being produced.

    That way, both skeptics and believers would get a tangible proof that everything is going ahead.

    • He is probably just feeling a bit lonely at the moment. However, if ‘spreading the word’ is a part of his game plan then blog posters could be useful – provided that there was something of substance to spread the word about.

      • LarryJ

        Rossi could care less about skeptics, believers, scientists, the general public or the peanut gallery. His focus is on getting his products to market. He knows that is the only important task and he is totally focused on that task.

        • Albert Nilsson

          His actions this far does not support that claim. Because then there would already be at least one product in the open market already now.

          • LarryJ

            Every step he takes brings him one step closer to products in the market. Five years ago he did the 1MW demo in 2011, then the Ferrara test in 2013, then the Lugano test in 2014. The latest step was proving the viability of a 1MW commercial reactor by building one and testing it in a commercial venue for a full year. That was a giant step. Now the next step is industrialization. One rational step after the other.

            All of the steps he takes are controversial and there will always be a large crowd who will call them fraudulent, misguided, incompetently performed or what have you. This illustrates why there is no such thing as an irrefutable demo or test. They will always be refuted by someone or some group regarded by many as more credible than Rossi. The only irrefutable evidence is products in the market.

            If you were referring to a domestic use products then safety certification is the issue and that is beyond his control. That would very quickly lead to products in the market but safety certification is a major concern for the insurance industry and they require evidence of safe operation in a highly controlled industrial venue before they will allow the ecat to be declared safe for home operation.

          • bachcole

            Nice.

    • LarryJ

      Photographs would prove nothing and would be hotly disputed. The only tangible proof is products in the market that anyone can buy. As we have already seen, no industrial customer is going to want to participate in the blogoshpere war that is whirling around this topic, so until we have domestic certification I would expect cold fusion to remain well under the radar for the general public. The skeptics don’t want proof and the believers already have all they need.

      • Engineer48

        As neither a Skeptic nor Believer but a real world development engineer, what I require is a LENR manufacturer that can deliver the high COP reactor my clients need.

        So far only Leonardo will engage and discuss my clients requirements and talk specifications, warranty, certifications & delivery time franes.

        As far as I can see, only Leonardo has a product to deliver and all the other LENR companies are just wannabes.

      • bachcole

        I think that Julio is talking about himself (and me and others). I have degrees of belief, and it would help me if I were to see a photograph.

  • malkom700

    You are absolutely right and pointed to the essentials, but I think that Rossi has nothing to do with organizations to discord. Instead, let’s be happy that he gives out information on processes alone. It also is proved to be true that there is some kind of a test and evaluation. If proved to be true of the three new plant for sale it will also be a step forward. In addition, it must be recognized the heroic work of the replicators as well.

  • jousterusa

    This is probably Steven Krivitz at work. His meal of crow didn’t go down too well, but he cooked it!

    • roseland67

      Jouster,
      As of today, I would say Krivit and Mary Yugo
      Are closer to being correct than most.

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        Though they might appear correct when castrating everything they read on cf, they sure do not appear to convey correctness or impartiality in tone and attitude.
        That really gives them away. Since they rarely refrain from personally attacking cf scientists, calling Rossi all kinds of names, how would one define them, really? “Biased” would be an understatement, no?

      • GreenWin

        Mary and Kirvit are subject of MIT’s herpetological studiessssssssssssss.

    • roseland67

      Exactly what meal would that be?

  • JC

    https://animpossibleinvention.com/2016/04/15/new-energy-world-symposium-will-be-cancelled/

    Truth be told, i am sick and tired of Andrea Rossi and his words. Thats all we have seen, words. Lets be honest here guys, if he really wanted to get his tech confirmed he could have done it a long time ago.

    I have spent 5 years following rossi and his e-cat. Enough is enough.

    • LarryJ

      Rossi knows the only way his tech will be confirmed is through products in the market. Despite all the talk about irrefutable demos and test reports there is no other way to convince the public. The ERV report will have no more effect than any of the previous reports or tests and even if thousands of replicators started showing a cop > 50 nobody would believe it until they saw a product they could buy. Of course if thousands of replicators could produce a high cop then one of them would certainly bring a product to market. That is just the nature of a paradigm shift. We are talking about shifting reality and that is not easily done.

      It is just as well that you take a break from it. Your expectations are very unrealistic and disappointment is sure to follow. This stage of the development is much better suited and more rewarding for dreamers who trust their own judgement and neither need or demand impossible confirmations.

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        If we are frustrated, I wonder how must Dr Rossi feel… He is fighting for what he believes is the truth, it has never been pretty for him. We should be consistent with what we choose to believe, too.
        Those of us who can no longer be bothered simply with reading the news, had better ‘take a break’, as you say.
        Mats took a difficult decision on the Symposium, but, IMHO, the right one.

        • roseland67

          Rossi is fighting for $$$$$ only, period.
          He could have set up an Ecat at MIT or Argonne, NASA or Fermi labs anytime if he was only searching for “truth”.

      • Pweet

        He SAYS the only way his tech will be confirmed is through products in the marketplace. He says, “The market will decide.” And yet he has always refused to allow one to enter the market-place, even though his agents have arranged for exactly this to happen. Mr. Rossi has never supplied one.
        Why not?
        For Mr. Rossi to continue with his program, I think he knows very well it is essential none of his ecats get into the open market where critical tests can be done on them. So, in the five years in which they have supposedly been ready for market and advertised for sale, not one has been supplied to fill a genuine sale unconnected to the Rossi camp. Not one. There has to be a reason for this,

        • bachcole

          1st: You don’t know this for a fact, as Engineer48 said below.
          2nd: If what you say is true, why won’t he take your investment money?
          3rd: He is on the verge of selling units, yet you are too impatient and too happy to slam him without waiting a few months to see what happens; what possible harm is there to you if you wait patiently. We know what he has been doing.

          Like you, I hope to see some confirmation that he has sold 3 units to someone, and “Rossi says” will not be confirmation for me.

        • LarryJ

          There are reasons that he has not yet sold products to non-affiliated customers.

          The first and biggest reason is that he does not yet have a product in mass production for the market. Your comment states

          “So, in the five years in which they have supposedly been ready for market and advertised for sale”.

          This is simply not true, not over the last 5 years or even over the last year. He has been taking unpaid pre-orders for years but they have never been advertised and he has always been clear that these pre-orders will get priority once he has product for the market. He is now taking commercial orders but he will be carefully vetting the orders that he accepts. The recent test of the 1MW reactor was intended to provide a prototype that would prove the commercial viability of the product. The customer that purchased this first reactor was retained by Rossi so it is safe to say that he had some kind of prior relationship with them.

          You have to keep in mind that he has only recently managed to get his first patent approved so out of necessity he has had to be very careful about not letting his tech fall into the wrong hands. The current dispute with IH clearly demonstrates the need for caution. When you start talking about a tech worth trillions of dollars the veneer of civilization wears very thin indeed. If he had allowed unrestricted access to just anyone, they would have immediately reverse engineered his invention and applied for patents. As a result his tests were performed by highly qualified and carefully vetted parties that he trusted enough to perform the tests and not steal the tech. We think he trusted IH and although we don’t know IH’s side, it is clear to all that it did not end well.

          Rossi has always stated that he intends a massive production and sales at a price that will make reverse engineering his products futile. In other words he plans to flood the market. This policy will help protect his IP and it will make the introduction less disruptive since any business that wants one can get one within a reasonable period of time and not be bankrupted by competitors that were ahead of them in line. However, preparing for such a massive production is not a small or simple task. It is like Elon Musk saying that before he sells a single car he will build 10,000 of them to immediately satisfy demand and discourage competitors. Fortunately an ecat reactor core is at least an order of magnitude less complex to build than a car so once his production facilities are in place he will churn out quarkx reactor cores like they were popcorn. Even then the production of end use products will probably be left to OEMs and that too will take time to organize.

          It sounds like a long wait but Rossi is now building his production line and has said that he expects to build the first quarkx based prototype reactor this year. Things are happening.

  • LarryJ

    They have already shown it to the public. Many times but nobody will ever believe it. Only products will convince the public.

  • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

    So you ordered a 1MW ECat? What they told to you? Delivery date? etc. Thanks

  • Karl Venter

    or IH releases erv report with minimum benefit to Leonardo

    • Bob

      We need to remember….those few of us on this blog make no difference at all to the lawsuit. Releasing it or not releasing makes no difference. It will be presented in court.. Just like all the OJ news, the decision will be made in court not in the public “blogoshpere”
      .
      IH will not release information as that has never been their mode of operation. LIke most professional companies, they do not conduct legal business in the public arena. What other CEO do you see publishing remarks about snakes and clownery? (Other than perhaps Trump!)

  • Da Phys
    • Omega Z

      Gary Wright actually pulled that stunt twice. Once in Florida and once in Raleigh North Carolina.
      Probably he is at it again. You have to seriously question the mentality of people like that.

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    The Chinese and Russian already have nuclear submarines. More interesting when LENR submarines appear in Iran and North Korea.

  • Pweet

    Just out of curiosity, what are you going to do when he asks you for the million dollars?
    Will you pay it?
    I think the procedure is it goes into escrow until delivery is made and it is tested and ‘works’.

  • LuFong

    What country are you (or your company) in? Leonardo Corp currently (?) cannot sell in the US.

  • LuFong

    Most of us here have put in a pre-order for domestic E-Cats (I have 2) almost 5 years ago. I suggest you tone it down a little until you have something more definitive.

  • Buck

    Engine48,

    is your business of the sort where your Brand might gain from being known to use Green Energy? Or are you going to keep it secret for now so as to maintain a price advantage due to lower cost of goods sold?

    Put differently, are your sales “Business to Consumer” or “Business to Business”?

  • f sedei

    Very astute and wise observations and conclusions. I agree wholeheartedly. Something this huge brings out the worst of the worst. Rossi should strike while the iron is hot.

  • All agreed – if a little hard on lawyers.

    • g

      Rossi wont change the world. Mfmp and me356 and all the good people replicating will

      • greggoble

        Might Industrial Heat have replicated the ‘Rossi Effect’ and determined that Rossi has nothing new and they do not need his help or patents anymore?

        • Alex Fenrick

          Greg, priori/posteriori knowledge and/or justification is completely irrelevant to LENR patents…or any patents for that matter. That is actually why we have patents in the first place to establish a concrete basis to eliminate the need to ask the question. What would it add to the situation anyways?

      • kdk

        It does matter who has the patent, beyond the moral arguments about “it belongs to humanity” or “he should be rewarded for his work”. Do we really, honestly, believe that oil barons would be working as hard to get the technology out to the world as somebody like Rossi?

      • Michael W Wolf

        Yes, thanks to Rossi and others.

        • cashmemorz

          Its standard practice for any smart/successful entrepreneur. It’s called keeping a paper trail. Even when I started my career at the level of a lowly designer, the chief engineer where I started work after high school, strongly suggested that I follow his example and keep a detailed diary of anything that MIGHT BE important. One does not know which details are or will be important so everything gets recorded just in case. There were other prominent, successful people I knew, who did the same and suggested I do this.

    • Omega Z

      The only known shark repellent that works. Throw a Lawyer in the water.
      I never swim in the ocean without one. Their more important then a life vest.

      • Bear1145

        I have been following e cat since 2012. I have never posted here. I believe e cat works but I can not understand at this point in time, why Mr. Rossi does not publicly set up a secured demotration. He could have present reputable observers in a university lab and video the intire process to insure no manipulation of data takes place and other energy or power is present. To prove it works publically all that is nessisary would to deminstrate is power out is greater than power in. He would not have to disclose how it works just that it does work verified by the the reputable observers in the appropriate fields of science.

        • kdk

          That has been done already.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          Done many times, skeptics always find something wrong with demo. God could set up and run the demo and skeptics or those only interested in delaying/stopping LENR could find something wrong with demo. Only way is for a customer to come forward and tell the world how much money he is saving using LENR, then the free market would take over; big time.

          • Omega Z

            God could set up and run the demo.
            Obviously, skeptics would find God to be bias as Rossi has a known association with him.

          • cashmemorz

            Bringing religion into any discussion is just diverting attention away from the main topic, does Rossi’s E-Cat work as claimed. But since it has been introduced, may I say that the way religion works, if it works, is that one prays for a desired result and then waits. Here the bias against the almighty would show if god did intervene to somehow show that the E-Cat did work, then a sceptic could say it looks as if god is playing favourites with Rossi. With sceptics you can’t win, even, as you say, if god did intervene.

          • Allan Kiik

            Bulletproof demonstration can accelerate LENR research and people who are asking Rossi

            to do this can not be accused of desire to delay or stop LENR.

            Fact is there has been a lot of demos and all of them deeply flawed, each one with different flaws.

          • cashmemorz

            Problem with that viewpoint is that if one looks long and deep enough then even if god set up the demo a sceptic would still find fault.

          • Allan Kiik

            Nope, even god can not heat a gram of water by 1 degree without adding 4.18 joules of energy. Sparging the steam to pool of water of flow calorimetry without phase change with well placed thermometers can do the job. Rossi has never done this easy and obvious test. Maybe he still has what he claims (I hope so, because other option is sad), but until now we do not have such data.

          • Allan Kiik

            ” OR flow calorimetry “

          • Omega Z

            Rossi has done water calorimetry with thermometers.
            However, well placed thermometers are a matter of ones perspective. No matter how well placed, someone will have issues. There is no such thing as a Bulletproof test if there are those who don’t want them to be.

            There is only one way to do this. Products in the market and even that wont convince everyone. There are still Flat Earthers even today.

          • Allan Kiik

            I have a lot of experience with design and manufacturing of flow calorimeters for commercial district heating (and designing and buidling calibration rigs for certified testing labs), and I can assure you it is not a matter of ones perspective – there are well defined rules for placing thermometers and these rules work just fine.

          • Omega Z

            Pathoskeptics do not accept any rules or assurances should results prove positive. It does not matter the credentials. Any positive outcome labels you a quack. However, someone with zero credentials can proclaim no excess heat and be called a genius. Rossi could build a cubic foot self contained and looped system suspended in air in operation for years, They would merely claim instrument error.

            The only way to settle things is product to market. It will work or not.

          • Allan Kiik

            But why do you care what pathosceptics say or do not say, ignore them, they are not important, you really can not satisfy everyone on the net.

          • Omega Z

            Personally, I don’t care what pathosceptics actually think. It will have zero impact on Rossi and what he is doing. However, they must be under the delusion that it will have an impact. They are awfully pesky and persistent.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Allan is correct…flow calorimetry done correctly is very accurate and trustworthy being proven for decades in many industries. Rossi’s claims could be proven quite easily if he wished to do so.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Who is going to place the “well placed thermometers”, who is going to set up and run the “Sparging the steam”. The skeptics will have a field day with qualified operators, what if there is an under the floor source of power, how about that electrical plug they used, it could be rigged, the steam is not dry enough, who approved the whole setup, is he qualified, there is a diesel engine in the back supplying the power, on, and on it goes. Get a customer to say he saved X amount of money!!

          • Allan Kiik

            Personnel in the certified lab can do this, I can arrange the test and even pay for lab time and expenses if Rossi only agrees to provide a gadget. I have suggested this Rossi years ago, only result being that my posts to JONP go now directly to trashcan.
            I am still ready to do this, If you can persuade Rossi to cooperate by providing the gadget.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Who certified the lab? Who is going to certify (with financial bonds) no one will steal IP? Who are you, do you have “other” motives? What personnel in your lab, are they as qualified as the scientists Rossi has worked with?

          • Allan Kiik

            See, it is finished before starting 🙂
            State agency can certify the lab (btw, it is not “my” lab, I am only the engineer who designed the automation hardware and wrote most of the software) but no one can satisfy other requirements.
            There are no scientists in the lab, only metrologists and technicians.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Allan Kiik: Please, I do not mean any disrespect to you personally, I am just pointing out what we have been going through with “tests” over the last 5 years. There is simply no “test” that cannot be questioned and ridiculed by someone intent on delaying/stopping LENR.

          • Allan Kiik

            I have too followed all this since january 2011 and I do understand who-is-who, but fact is, Rossi is rejecting good proposals routinely, maybe he is a little too paranoid about his IP, or…

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Right, I do not understand his stance on protecting customers who could tell us what has or has not been saved, but I am not in his shoes. After five years of back and forth, I do respect the man, on many different levels. (except for tennis) (:

          • artefact

            “except for tennis”: Well, his wife is Italian. I don’t know much about the temperament of Italian woman, but maybe it is better to let them win 🙂

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Right! I put a piece of tape over my mouth when I play with my wife.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Man, go create something of your own and let people keep telling you how full of it you are. You are relentlessly inconsiderate. What are you like 12?

          • Omega Z

            “the temperament of Italian woman”, Perhaps you mean “the temperament of woman”

            No matter what you say, you’re wrong….
            From the background you hear “That Ain’t True”

          • cashmemorz

            This brings to mind, at what point does “definition of qualifications” for practical purposes become “nit picking” for skeptics purposes. Sure a test lab has to have certain qualifications or a history of dependability. But for some the qualifications can fall down just because of human frailty to become corrupted by payment for falsification of tests etc. I suppose this can happen, but we live in an imperfect world and have to live with such mistakes whether by accident or on purpose.

          • GordonDocherty

            High Energy Nuclear Reactions (HENR) are, indeed, dangerous. LENR, by its very nature, is a lot safer, as a simple measurement of radiation around and external to an LENR product would demonstrate – and has already been demonstrated (for example, those who worked in the 1MW container are still very much alive).

            In fact, going back over the years, it was the lack of High Energy Nuclear Reaction signatures that caused the mainstream to claim that LENR was not real at all…

            So, it is not LENR that will need to fit in with the regulations for HENR, but rather the regulations changed to fit in with LENR, and to distinguish between HENR (which is dangerous and always will be) and LENR (which is inherently safe).

            The sooner the regulators measure and characterize actual emissions from LENR systems, therefore, the better, for if the “developed world” drags its feet, with the promise of clean water, improved sanitation and cheap electricity, the developing world certainly won’t.

          • cashmemorz

            How does anyone “characterize actual emissions from LENR systems” if no such emissions are found to exist by the regulatory bodies? Do regulatory bodies ever take the time to characterize radiation that “actually ” is non-existent? Why would they bother with working on complaints about such things after the regulatory bodies find nothing there to work on? It’s like crying wolf, where there is no wolf. Those who propose such things are shooting themselves in the foot because if the time ever comes when a LENR system does “actually” show external ionizing radiation, the regulatory bodies may say, “it’s just another sour grapes complainant who doesn’t know when to stop complaining” and not treat the complaint with as much urgency as the situation may require, during which time people may be getting sick from said radiation. Best to keep complaints for incidents where both sides, believers and skeptics, can agree there is something to complain about.

          • GordonDocherty

            By continual monitoring and experience – and, if no emissions are found over an extended period, then it is reasonable to assume there are normally no emissions, unlike HENR. Using HENR measures to try to inhibit or prohibit the roll out of LENR makes no sense. As to “better to play it safe”, trying to live life “with zero risk” is the surest way to catastrophe (and insanity).

        • Lux Terrea

          Hey! I think I have a great idea. Lets have multiple tests with several different testers until it’s indisputable! No way! That’s a great idea and I’m not even a professor! Wow!

        • Roland

          Of course you want to start a war, why quibble.

  • Michael W Wolf

    I wrote this lower in the comments, but I think it is very important.

    IH sitting on their hands for 1 year deliberately breaching the
    contract is more than Rossi says. I mean if it wasn’t deliberate, then
    how incompetent is that? Risking 11.5 million of their investors money?
    But even though they didn’t find a test facility, they filed a patent
    where IH claimed to have built and tested a reactor of 11 COP. It is the
    only thing IH has claimed under oath of the patent. Everything else
    that followed honest people have to admit it seems IH is being
    dishonest. Fraudulent? I don’t know, but the contract problems we
    absolutely know about is on IH.

    The evidence that IH never
    intended a test or pay Rossi the 89 million is very logical here. For
    anyone to blame any of this on Rossi now is contrary to what we know.
    Now we find the SEC has ruled against Cherokee, pointing to the fact
    that IH and company are willing to play outside the rules of the game.
    There is something shady going on here and it all points to IH.

    Their
    public statement is meaningless, and what they claimed under oath so
    far supports Rossi’s adherence to the contract. We can assume Rossi
    breached the contract by not giving all IP know how to IH, but that is
    just hinted at in a worthless public statement, legally speaking. Rossi
    is being wrongfully ostracized and deserves better under the
    circumstances as we know it.

    Now what have I said here is wrong? Everyone talks about not speculating, but this is just some things we know. They said Rossi lied about knowing IH filed a patent and we found the law was changed and the accuser was wrong/deceptive. They said they believed IH was telling the truth when they implied they couldn’t replicate Rossi’s device, then we found the patent. Then Jed comes out basically calling Rossi a fraud and he recants. I mean am I the only one seeing the writing on the wall? It is IH that is doing what Rossi is accused of. It is Rossi critics that are doing what they accuse Rossi of. Rossi deserves better, he is the inventor until he is proven a fraud, especially when all the critics seem to say anything while Rossi works hard to improve mankind.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      “…under oath…” You churned up a 50 year old memory.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIsqYKDqY8

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Well, the act of IH investing in LENR and looking to purchase potential intellectual property
      rights (IP) makes sense. I mean they invested in Rossi because they believed him.
      Makes perfect sense as a company looking for return on their investments to
      look at other up-coming LENR companies and technologies.

      I mean, you likely could have purchased Google for a 1 million if you moved at the right time. Now a billion will not allow you to purchase google.

      So IH looking to obtain, control and purchase LENR technology makes perfect sense AS LONG as they believe in the companies and people they are investing into.

      For what reason would IH not seek out and purchase and attempt to obtain IP rights to LENR?
      After all that’s exactly what they did with Rossi.

      Cleary at some point in time IH changed their mind for whatever reasons and started to doubt
      Rossi and the ERV report. We don’t know the reasons for this change of heart,
      but such a change of heart clearly occurred in regards to IH

      So actions by IH at the start make perfect sense. And their change of heart in regards to Rossi and the ERV also makes perfect sense if one entertains the idea that IH does not believe
      the high COP claims in the ERV report.

      The most reasonable position here is that Rossi (like other LENR companies) has a working reactor, but not in the COP of 50+ range. So the initial tests of 24 hours and COP’s in
      the say COP of range would warrant internets and investments into LENR. And
      such 24 hours tests would satisfy that LENR is real.

      So actions of IH seem to fit the above this pattern. Hey, wow, this cool technology has great
      potential.

      We anticipated the ERV with great excitement not to prove that LENR works, but HOW well and HOW commercial Rossi’s technology is.

      Tons of evidence for LENR exists. This evidence has little to do with showing how commercially
      viable Rossi’s technology is.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Omega Z

    Andrea Rossi
    April 13, 2016 at 5:30 PM

    Patrick Ellul:
    The Report will be published after it will have been disclosed in the Court.

  • roseland67

    Engineer48,
    Rossi has “started the process of developing an Ecat”, that doesn’t mean it will ever get done.
    And I will wager you won’t order, see, test, or witness a working Ecat in the next 10 years.

  • psi2u2

    Not in this case, but in at least one other case.

  • psi2u2

    You did not state it as speculation. You wrote:

    ” I guarantee IH has some impressive lawyers that know what to expect with the report.”

    If you have a material interest you should disclose it now.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Psi…I already pointed out it was nothing more than a figure of speech..for some reason you and Roland took it as a literal statement. You are just being antagonistic at this point in chastising me over a figure of speech. Everyone in here is speculating at this point…I explained it quite well to Roland.

  • LarryJ

    Some time ago and unrelated to Rossi’s case

  • we-cat

    Is there anybody that has seen a nice timeline of the court case? When does IH have to file? First hearing, etc..

    Cheers,

    JB

    • Michael W Wolf

      Someone has said in Florida, IH has 30 days to respond.

      • Brent Buckner

        According to this:
        http://freeenergyscams.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/ToDo-1.jpg
        answer required in 21 days (not including day summons received, apparently April 6).

        • Michael W Wolf

          Thanks BB.

        • we-cat

          BB,

          Muchas gracias!

          JB

      • Brent Buckner
        • cashmemorz

          Missed the part where I stated that “it is very PROBABLE that he did based on that It is standard practice for any smart/successful entrepreneur” ? This means I have no way to confirm that he does this but, it would surprise me if he did not have a daily journal from which he could compile personal evidence against Industrial Heat. This kind of activity is my understanding of how things are PROBABLY done by Rossi. I am an ordinary blogger throwing out probable scenarios, not trying to come across as if I have actual personal knowledge of what Rossi does or does not do. Why would you think like that?

  • LarryJ

    Rome wasn’t built in a day

  • we-cat

    ..and is there perhaps somebody that has more info on Rossi’s business plans? Around 30 staff, but what is his burn rate? Where are the offices? Open positions? New partners, etc..

    Cheers,

    JB

  • LarryJ

    Rossi actually gets at least as much from his blog as he gives. It is a source of ideas and information. He has many friends and supporters who are actively searching for relevant information which they do pass on to him. There are a number of scientists and engineers that also contribute ideas and links.

    It is naive to think Rossi can just show people how it is done without risking everything. He has been around the block a few times and he has a plan which he will follow. He is not a fool.

  • The term of choice used by pathoskeps for anyone posting on this blog is ‘believer’ – as in cult member – but you wouldn’t win too many friends here by using it.

    • Michael W Wolf

      I have no problem being called a believer. After all I don’t know. Skeptopaths think they know and that makes my blood boil. Skeptopaths fit the term cult member more accurately.

  • Michael W Wolf

    The patent contradicts your idea of “waiting for results”. They lied on their patent?

  • Anon2012_2014

    “more worried who will be the business brains of Rossi. Rossi is a PR nightmare, and I don’t see him as the tiger he thinks he is.”

    IH was on paper Rossi’s ideal match — the professional business management and fund raising to go with his creative genius. Now we know that the relationship soured at least one year ago, but with no further details as to why beyond he said/she said as in any divorce.

    Rossi received $10 mm of funding. That should have been enough to get to the next milestone. Milestones are standard practice for professional investors. Maybe the milestone was achieved (Rossi’s view in the lawsuit), or maybe it wasn’t (IH’s view in the responsive press release, waiting for the formal Answer to the Complaint).

    If Rossi did get to the next milestone — to be proven in court as opposed to speculated in these blogs — then IH was a bad business deal for Rossi and he should have gone with a different business partner.

    If Rossi did not get to the next milestone, IH was a good business partner and now Rossi is rationally scrambling to try and force a cash settlement when none is due (failed milestone) so as to continue his business.

    Rossi will need professional business management as shown by his random PR postings on his blog. His PR is an embarrassment.

  • Michael W Wolf

    Read the contract. It is a fact that IH did not meet their 90 requirement in the contract to find a test facility. Technically Rossi could have sued then.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Oh I am not saying our government and media do not have their hands in just about everything at some level…but IF the government or some secret organization wanted to shut down Rossi…they would go a MUCH different route than an a harassing compaint filed with an inspector. If we are under Orwellian control…they sure are bad at it if a filed complaint or carefully placed skeptics etc. are the best they have at stopping what would bring down “the system”. I just don’t see that being the case….but at this point in this situation I would believe about anything haha.

      • Michael W Wolf

        I agree 100%. Well maybe 90%. lol

        • psi2u2

          I have to admit that this thought entered my mind also when I read it.

          • Alex Fenrick

            I believe no matter what the real story is in all of this….we just got the story that Rossi wishes to be perpetuated directly from the “Jacky” comment. The more I read it…the more I am firmly convinced it is Rossi in disguise. Im not saying this is a smoking gun of any kind by any stretch of the imagination…just really interesting to see what perspective Rossi wishes to be spoken about or at very least casually dropped in. Interesting…

      • LarryJ

        The test was performed in Ferrara Italy, typo on my part. I have seen it referred to as such and since the Lugano test is named after the test location I just figured it was a de facto convention.

        http://kb.e-catworld.com/index.php?title=Third_party_E-Cat_test,_Ferrara,_Italy_%282012-2013%29

  • Michael W Wolf

    Maybe deliberately is my bias coming through. But they knew they breached the contract whether it was planned or they just failed to find a facility.

  • Michael W Wolf

    At one time I would have thought you were out of your mind. Now, I think you are frightfully correct.

  • Michael W Wolf

    The Anunnaki make sure of it. 🙂 Did you know our government in America has decided that the discovery of aliens would be so disruptive that they would NOT inform the public if that ever were the case?

    • cashmemorz

      Why disruptive? Do they have LENR technology?

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Open letter to the customer of the IH/Rossi year long test:

    Dear Customer:

    I do not know how much you have been following the progress of LENR and the Rossi E-Cat, but I hope you are interested enough to follow events on this site so you will read this letter.

    LENR and specifically the Rossi E-Cat could be a game changer for the world economy and the use of damaging fossil fuels, not to mention the huge number of lives it will save in energy starved under developed nations. I implore you to release Dr. Rossi from his NDA with you concerning information about the recently concluded year long test at your facility. I can imagine how much you value your privacy, but LENR and its benefits are just too great for you to remain silent. Please, the world needs to know the economic benefits you did or did not see during the year long test. Did using the E-Cats to supply heat to your facility save you money, if yes how much?

    One way you might release this information is through your attorney

    Thanks for listening to me, please consider the above with the utmost urgency.

    Bernie Koppenhofer

    [email protected]

    • LarryJ

      You know it is quite possible that Rossi requires his customers to sign an NDA because a lot of public focus on the ecat before he is ready with products in the market would be contrary to his and the technology’s best interests. If I were him I would probably do like every other player in the field, say absolutely nothing and make anyone I deal with sign an NDA to do the same.

      There is a huge interest from the followers of this tech to have it finally, irrefutably proven and confirmed for the good of the world. I think the more likely motive is to finally prove to all their friends and families that “See, I hate to say I told you so, I’m not nuts, I’m an open minded far seeing prophet and so much more willing to think outside the box than all of you”, even though there is nothing beyond products in the market that will ever convince anyone of its reality.

      All these giveaway ideas and irrefutable test ideas would do, at best, is bring unwanted focus to a tech that is not ready for the market and so is meaningless to the world in any practical sense. The world will not be a better place today because cold fusion may be a reality tomorrow and you cannot plan projects today on what might happen in the future, only products will enable those things.

  • georgehants

    Fact, there has never been a test of an E-cat sufficient to fully convince the most open-minded of Rossi followers i.e. me.
    The testers in the Luguno test have disappeared without trace etc etc.
    Mr. Rossi has always said selling products will convince the World, but every-time he sells more and more, for some reason everything has to stay secret.
    The known Evidence is not sufficient to justify any statements of commercial Cold Fusion at this point and just when it seemed that proof may be forthcoming the insane capitalist system rears it’s ugly head again and we sit here with many actually talking about this delay to Cold Fusion as if it could happen in any sort of sane society, while the millions who die and suffer wait yet again.
    The onus is entirely on Mr. Rossi to show he has what he says he has and these comical legal events are no excuse for him not to do so.

    • Omega Z

      comical legal events can land one in the pokey. Rossi can attest to this.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Yea George, I agree 100%.

  • cashmemorz

    Slow and easy wins the race. Just ask the hare who was resting part way through the race with the hare.

  • Karl Venter

    Why cant we see a photo of ecatx etc
    its surely covered by patent?

    • LarryJ

      Rossi has said that he will not discuss the ecatx/quarkx until he has completed his preliminary R&D. Before the falling out with IH he was talking about a press conference in Sweden at the same time as Mats Lewan’s symposium but his latest comment on the matter has implied that is not a for sure thing yet.

      • psi2u2

        It is cancelled. The publication of the report was Mats’ pre-requisite.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    On the other hand, Rossi’s flying under the radar approach seems
    to be working.

    • Omega Z

      Who’s Rossi and where is he flying too.

      • cashmemorz

        Towards a place in history that is very enviable. That is what pathoskeptics are jealous of amongst several other strange feelings that are in the “psycho” dimension.

        • Omega Z

          Those poor poor people.
          We should start a go fund me account to get those people some professional medical help…

          • cashmemorz

            That means you are one of the bloggers who will NEVER order an E-Cat. I have and am willing to wait . You?

          • Omega Z

            You misunderstand,
            Poor poor people=Skeptics.
            I believe the E-cat works. I’m just waiting for conformation that it’s economically beneficial..

          • cashmemorz

            If you don’t accept the COP +6 then it will never work for you.

          • Michael W Wolf

            I feel the same as you.

        • Michael W Wolf

          No, I think they just don’t believe it is possible. So they feel justified in just slandering people. Those who believe in LENR and criticize Rossi, generally are not skeptopaths.

  • LuFong

    From Rossi today (emphasis mine):

    Meaghan
    April 17, 2016 at 3:51 AM

    Dear Dr Andrea Rossi:

    How is going on your R&D with the QuarkX ?

    Regards,
    Meaghan

    Andrea Rossi
    April 17, 2016 at 8:03 AM

    Meaghan:

    We are working very strong: still very promising, but it is premature
    any further consideration. We are still in a prelininary[sic] phase of
    R&D.

    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • LarryJ

      Keep in mind that English is not Rossi’s native language and that he does not know how to spell preliminary. He has not yet recanted his hope to have a quarkx industrial prototype in operation this year.

      • LuFong

        I had no intention of emphasizing the misspelling, only that the R&D was still in a preliminary phase. We’ll see what happens given the civil suit.

    • Patrick Ellul

      Rossi’s English gives him away. I know for a fact that sometimes he edits posted questions (which is fair enough if it makes them more answerable). But I also suspect that sometimes he poses as an anonymous user to ask himself some question that he wants answered, or publish some point of view that he wants pushed anonymously. For example a “Jacky” post recently accusing Vaugh, Darden and Rothwell of various things used the distinctively misspelt word “foundamental”, which happens to be how Rossi himself always spells that word. See for yourself at http://rossilivecat.com/all.html

      • LuFong

        I’m aware that Rossi edits questions and changes answers but it never
        occurred to me that he might pose them as well. Could be a coincidence
        since many or Rossi’s blog posters are not English speaking.

        I had no intention of emphasizing the misspelling, only that the R&D was still in a preliminary phase.

      • LuFong

        Yes, who knew about the test being shut down by healthcare officials in Florida? That’s the first time I heard about this one. Good catch about ‘Jacky.’

        I have to admit I am starting to question the sanity of Rossi.

      • Omega Z

        Does Rossi pose questions to himself under a pseudonym to get answers out there.

        NO. Having followed JONP for a very long time, I can say if Rossi wants something known, he just puts it out there point blank. He’s not bashful about it.

  • Brent Buckner

    If we take what Rossi writes at face value then perhaps there’s very little upside for him to do that, as against a drain on time and attention from 180 days of paid work. He wrote that he has the investment capital that he requires for his manufacturing plans, and his given timeframe for mass production would be timely for indirect aid in his court case and for impacting his public image.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Yea Brent, Rossi is old and now has much too much on his plate. Alainco is right. Rossi should let the proverbial cat out of the bag and let it go where it goes in everyone’s hands. Maybe Rossi was wrong for not working with Godes, assuming Godes was sincere.

      • LarryJ

        Chronological age is becoming less and less of a factor these days. The number of men in their 60s starting families is a fast growing demographic. How old you are is more a question of how well you took care of yourself and how you feel. As George Burns once quipped “If I’d known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself”. Rossi is an athlete, a proven marathon man and believes he is on a mission from his god. I think he will go the distance.

        As for sincerity in partners, I think that where trillion dollar markets are in play, the word sincerity has little meaning. He has what they want, period. Trust no one. Everybody has their own agenda. His paranoia has kept him in the game this long and I would like to see him stay in the game. If we lose Rossi we will have nothing to talk about.

        • Michael W Wolf

          I hope you are right brother.

  • georgehants

    Alex, as long as you maintain a completely open-mind as to if Mr. Rossi id genuine then that is fine.
    Very few people understand seemingly what a Fact is and live their lives completely in a fantasy of opinion and pointless speculation, the very sad thing is that much of the time they seem to actuly believe there own opinions or speculations.
    We wait again for Mr. Rossi and that is only by his choice.

    • Omega Z

      It’s lucky you’re waiting on Rossi instead of me.

      The more people try and rush me, the slower I go. I’ve been know to go so slow, I actually go backwards in time. 🙂

      • Roland

        There normally is adequate shielding in the maned crafts themselves, excepting for being caught in flare plumes from solar or cosmic events.

        The International Space Station, for example, has a designated shelter area for the duration of such events; some of which are, in fact, dangerously energetic.

        Life, as we know it, can exist here because the magnetic field around the planet shields us, almost completely, from the high energy radiations present right outside the magnetosphere.

        • cashmemorz

          No one knows how the Lunar Module kept the astronauts safe from radiation?

          • Alex Fenrick

            Oh I agree with you there Orso…I am sure most people would do just about anything possible especially if they were convinced of their technology. Unfortunately for Rossi though…his carelessness in his use of the fake poster does make him look a bit dishonest from some points of view. Again I am not saying this is anything significant….I just think he might want to be a bit more careful with moves like this that many would consider quite dishonest and shady.

    • Michael W Wolf

      That is exactly right George. If it is IH’s way of delaying, Rossi can foil their plan flat out.

  • Jarea

    I think he has a good point. We all have waited too much.

    • bachcole

      It will take as long as it takes. One’s impatience or unfulfilled expectations is not a justification for doubting evidence so that one can have an opportunity to dump on Rossi.

    • Or expected too much.

  • Omega Z

    ->”If the skeptics dig deep enough they will probably find some indirect connection between testers”

    This is very true. I know someone#1 that knows someone#2 that knows someone#3 that knows someone#4 that knows someone#5 That is a close relative of President Obama.

    This based on a population of 330 Million has a 99% chance of being true. The lower the population, the less iterations necessary.
    —————————————————————————
    Demo’s or tests take a lot of time and money and Rossi will not allow you an E-cat out of his sight. You already have controversy because Rossi was Present.

    It’s best if Rossi just puts a few to work for customers. If it works, it wont stay secret very long.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Yea, six degrees of separation connects everyone on the planet. Theoretically.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Just for openers for creating this panel, will you provide the financial performance bonds necessary to protect Rossi’s IP in case one of the “small panel of testers” decides to steal his IP?

    • Alex Fenrick

      No Bernie…it does not work that way. That is what NDA’s are for. This is all standard stuff.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    10 million can do a lot of research and planning to build.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Unless he was playing semantics, he absolutely has implied that he is being funded…not using his own personal funds.

      • psi2u2

        And you think he is not? Or just that he got his funding suspiciously quickly?

      • psi2u2

        I agree.

  • Job001

    Temperature lags heat flux and enthalpy. Consequently, ice melts, volatiles evaporate, chemistry changes, oceans depths warm and oceans rise, and these things happen before temperature rise.

    Google warming with phase change to see charts where temperature rise halts during phase change for melting or boiling or other phase changes. This is known science by scientists and even thoughtful ice tea drinkers.

    • Job – total hogwash and you know it.

      The majority of the earth that would have warmed is not frozen therefore NO PHASE CHANGE. Temperature in that case is a first order integral equation with a linear relationship with time.

      BTW, nice try at a distraction, dodging the issue of failed temperature rise predictions by both Hansen (formerly of NASA/GISS) and the IPCC (the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change). Are Hansen and the IPCC both idiots ignorant of ‘phase change’ too? Remember, these are the very acolytes of AGW now …

      In most “sciences” a hypothesis that failed that bad would be re-worked, revised, but not so with AGW and its steadfast, almost blind adherents.

      Why is that?

      • Job001

        Mind all made up, so, Who’s paying you?

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    We have learned there is no such thing as “an independent tester” skeptics could turn “an independent tester” into an incompetent “nut case” just by saying someone else said he was a “nut case”

    • Alex Fenrick

      Bernie a small panel of testors that do not have direct known connections would be sufficient for me and I believe most of the “pathoskeptics”. Some might find indirect connections….but a panel would offset it enough if any popped up. If the testers would chosen honestly no more than an indirect connection or two would logically exist. I really would just have to be about a panel rather than one connected individual….nothing more.

  • Ted-Z

    Related to Rossi or not related, an opinion from an engineer is valid. Otherwise you are suggesting that the ERV engineer committed a fraud. Engineers have their rules of conduct and professional associations. Most engineers would feel offended with your posting. In the USA, the PE (professional engineers) have a strict code of conduct.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Ted while you are correct in your statement regarding engineers…it does not apply in this case. The reason is that I am not necessarily saying that the ERV is maliciously fraudulent, I am saying the connection to Rossi and evidently IH (as many have said IH approved the EVR after knowing Rossi was connected) is what causes the absolute conflict of interest.

  • NT

    How do you square this statement from Rossi?

    Frank Acland

    April 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM

    Dear Andrea,

    You have said that you have many back orders of industrial plants, but how many companies/organizations are you actively working with to build and deliver plants for?

    Many thanks,

    Frank Acland

    Translate

    Andrea Rossi

    April 16, 2016 at 9:32 PM

    Frank Acland:

    One.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

  • Alex Fenrick

    Michael that is no different than Rossi’s fraud conviction AND jail time pointing at Rossi being a fraudster. You can’t have it both ways. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

  • LarryJ

    The problem with including the court case as a factor in proving the ecat is the slow pace at which the courts move. I would be very surprised if we even see the jury selected this year. By the time anything comes out of the court case it will probably be moot. As a result I think the court case will be an irrelevant sideshow.

  • psi2u2

    The question of when Rossi/IH each knew things were going wrong has been discussed fairly extensively and it is pretty clear that both Rossi and IH had known for some months that a breach was coming. But of course it could not come until 5 days after the production of the report and IH failure to pay.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Months would indeed be enough to find funding. I must have missed that discussion…thank you for clarifying it.

    • bachcole

      I agree 100%. But how could Rossi know that I.H. wasn’t going to pay? The only way would be that I.H. was telling Rossi, either overtly or covertly, that the hugging and the kissing was over. At some point months ago the romance was over and Rossi knew it. I wonder how that went.

      • cashmemorz

        Any smart business man, and Rossi is that as well as an engineer, manipulator amongst many talents, always records all details daily just in case. Rossi did not necessarily gather details for court evidence, just details of everyday happenings between all who Rossi encountered daily, just in case. When the time came that it was becoming obvious that IH was not going to Pay Rossi, at that time pertinent details were pulled out of the daily notes and copied to form the 18 volumes that could apply to what IH might have been acting on towards not paying Rossi.

  • LarryJ

    Nobody will ever believe any demo no matter how irrefutable you might think it is. There will always be a large credible group who will refute it. A short controlled test with a small panel or a long controlled panel or any iteration thereof would be a complete waste of effort. The only proof for a paradigm shift is products in the market.

    The court case will be an interesting sideshow that may be resolved this decade but probably not. It will have no effect in the short term and in the long term will probably determine who owes who a licensing fee. By that point in time it will likely be a minor fight between two mega corps like when Apple sued Samsung for infringing its patents.

    • bachcole

      I just like Apple suing Samsung, most people won’t even know that it is happening and even more people won’t give a rat’s rear end. I barely knew that Apple sued Samsung, and it impacts my emotions exactly zero.

  • GordonDocherty

    Several people (not just Rossi) sat in very close proximity (the same crate) as running LENR reactors for a year and are still very much alive. “Toxic radiations” is therefore pushing it…

    Mind you, if we are looking to prevent exposure to potentially toxic radiation, then the following need (also) to be banned :

    1. microwave ovens – stuffed full of dangerous radiation…
    2. mobile communications including cell (mobile) phones – sources of dangerous radiation, in the case of cell phones sitting right next to the ear/brain (who says ever phone is always “safe”?)…

    3. luminous watches – they’re luminous for a reason…

    4. Granite – buildings containing a high level of Granite (like Grand Central Station or most of the buildings in the city of Aberdeen in Scotland) emit more radiation than is allowable at a nuclear power plant…

    5. the large nuclear furnace burning out of control in the sky – this is known to saturate the environment across the planet with high levels of radiation, although rather more so by day than by night…

    Yet, no such bans have been imposed. Further, as Rossi points out, these unfounded claims appear to be eminating from the same sources that also claim the e-Cat does not work, and never will, as LENR is an impossibility.

    • We’re safe from the nuclear furnace in the sky here in the UK – we only see it once a month at most.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, wait until Mr. Cameron has all his new semi-safe nuclear bombs scattered around the country side.
        Of course my idea of using all the unemployed to manufacture and fit solar panels on every roof is deemed crazy in this society.
        I doubt if any Research on this has been performed,
        The cost would be very low, as the unemployed are already being paid something.

        • GordonDocherty

          it would also soak up all that harmful radiation… but, seriously for a second, your idea is an excellent one … another reason why Hinkley C is just plain a bad idea … ah, well

        • Omega Z

          George,

          As I have heard and apparently Peter can attest to, those solar panels would only be of use 1 day a month. Not very economical I must say.

          • georgehants

            Omega, sometimes I have great difficulty understanding some of the reply’s I get.
            The below report seems then to indicate that there are an amazing number of people using them one day a month economically.
            ——-
            Renewable energy
            Solar power set to provide record 15% of UK’s power
            http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/02/solar-power-provide-record-15-uk-power

          • Omega Z

            Sorry George, My post was tongue in cheek
            I’m certain only 1 day of sunshine a month is a little exaggerated.

            About Wind/Solar.
            For every 2MW of wind/solar, there needs to be 50% or 1MW of conventional backup power. As the UK government is intent on eliminating all fossil energy plants, that leaves only Nuclear power. So build away on those panels. Nuclear plants are still in the mix.

          • Rene

            I could believe that for many parts of the UK, the USA NE. In sunny northern CA, I know my backup power needs are 3% (12% daily for 3 months), soon to be 0.2% It’s all about short term energy storage.
            Even in non-solar applications load leveling VRB batteries work to increase power generation efficiency.

          • georgehants

            Omega, no I am sorry, my wit detector went a bit dumb.
            I seem to be showing signs of that old age thing.
            Best

          • 1 day a month was an exaggeration. We’ve had 2 this month already, and it’s only the 19th.

      • GordonDocherty

        🙂

    • Obvious

      6.being a pilot for a commercial airline.

      • cashmemorz

        Astronauts going thru Van Allen Belts twice, once going out of Earth orbit towards the Moon then second time on return leg of trip. An hour per each leg of trip. About 2 hours of hard radiation. And they didn’t have special heavy materials shielding to protect them. But they didn’t get sick, why?

    • Roland

      Ta Da … Beat the ‘radiation’ drum really, really loudly without ever, ever discussing actual measured exposures to the continuous background radiation as a critical reference point.

      Understanding the meaning of background radiation is foundational to understanding actual risks; unfortunately scaring people with ‘radiation’ (while, of course, continuing to expose them to actual risks as consumers) has been much more successful than getting technological illiterates to grasp all the necessary concepts to properly assess their risks from ‘radiation’.

      However; getting stupid people to relate primarily to their fears is well grounded in peer reviewed science, and as a consequence anybody with an IQ over a hundred can read up on the basics and get right to ‘work’.

      To usefully simplify; for future reference and/or the edification of your loved ones:

      Convert all radiation measurements into human x-ray exposures, using Google, and then ‘Google’ for the side effects of exposure to x number of medical x-rays over a given interval (the interval part matters a lot).

      This criteria holds up, reasonably, well for assessing the risks of all forms of human exposure to non ionizing radiation, background and ‘otherwise’ (‘us’).

      Of course everyone, that’s not stupid, will be doing their level best to measure every form of non ionizing radiation and every evidence of an/many Electro Magnetic signature/s (particularly so when related to any significant changes in the LENR reaction/reactor) with every piece of relevant hardware they can think of, lay their hands on, or invent.

      Rossi is, of course, too stupid to have done any of these things and thus has no evidentiary trail to fall back on.

      I’ll place my wager now before the rush builds and the odds slide:

      Non Ionizing radiation is a signal from pre E-Cat LENR designs (though valid signal, nonetheless, of low energy nuclear activity) and will only be of historical interest as the ‘signal’ that put the wind in the sails of the MFMP experimentalists; and that that in turn will be notable primarily for the very eclectic manner in which an early ‘open science’ initiative succeeded in doing ‘real’ science in full view of the, interested, public.

      Actually, I’d prefer my live science on a time delay so no morons can effortlessly learn new ways to blow things up and such; ya know, try ta keep it outta’ the hands of the kids for a while…

  • Zephir

    Whole the situation with cold fusion research is schizophrenic. The mainstream physicts are well aware of their nearly one century standing dismissal and ignorance of cold fusion research, so that they fear lost of moral credit and social prestige by now. They also feel, that the whole areas of their well paid research gets threatened by cold fusion (I mean all these alternative methods of energy production, conversion, transport and storage: from solar cells over batteries to nuclear fusion research). All these people have good socioeconomical reason to boycott cold fusion research as a single man: from theorists to applied research workers. And they indeed boycott it.

    This situation introduces high pressure to premature practical applications of cold fusion, because mainstream science pathoskeptics aren’t willing to accept the cold fusion until some commercial solution will be implemented and sold at public basis. This forces the cold fusion researchers to push these commercial applications, despite the lack of reliable risk analysis. From various sources we know, that the cold fusion is not inherently safe, as it could lead to runaways, which are the source of neutron bursts so it could serve as a dirty bomb for various terrorist groups and dictator regimes.

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/10/17/neutron-detection-and-the-e-cat/

    We even cannot exclude the option, however remote, that the runaway of large amount of cold fusion system could initiate the thermonuclear fusion, which would otherwise require expensive and difficult to obtain fission bomb to run. Therefore the principle of precautionary principle advices us to wait with commercial implementation of cold fusion systems, until we can be sure, how these runaways can be managed.

    • GordonDocherty

      A bomb would require fast neutrons, and lots of them, something noticably lacking in LENR (hence, the importance of the term “Low Energy”).

      As to runaway reactions, these are not of the “chain reaction running through fissile material” type. Instead, where they have happened, they are thermal runaways, as seen in the likes of thermite, only on a much smaller scale. There is therefore a risk based on overheating and fire, but that is about all. Also, LENR reactions are actually quite difficult to start and keep going, one of the reasons why “claimed replications” have often been anything but…

      Further, as LENR reactors use only tiny amounts of (more or less) “solid” fuels, there is little explosion risk, unlike when handling something like Methane (“natural gas”) through to Gasoline.

      In fact, LENR would (eventually) eliminate the need to ship fissile material to and from nuclear reactors, the storage and piping of natural gas into homes and the storage, delivery and use of gasoline (petrol) in cars. With some thought, it could even be used to eliminate Kerosine in aircraft at the same time as much extending their range, so making air travel much safer (no need to fly around inside a Kerosine bomb any more): 9/11 would likely have been very different if LENR aircraft had instead struck the towers.

      LENR would also enable a significant rise in the standard of living across the globe without putting pressure on natural resources, so reducing scarcity and easing political tensions, factors that are often found at the root of conflicts (those who have more have more to lose).

      So, introduction of LENR would most likely see a net decrease in risk.

      Finally, restricting the use of LENR reactors is very different from restricting the knowledge of how to build them. That cat is already outside the bag.

  • Felix Meyer

    Some snakes want to forbit the e-cat.
    This is a complete nonsense, as the tests have showed that no dangerous radiation existes outside the e-cat.

  • wpj

    Interesting comment from him

    “…….and because we have found just this week a way to make extremely difficult the reverse engineering”

    IH IP protection?

    • georgehants

      That’s good, it means he can send them out by the thousand all over the World for conformation.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Potting the container with resin, perhaps…

    • Ted-Z

      Only physical pre-treatment of nickel can be resistant to reverse engineering. Anything else (tungsten, platinum, palladium etc.) would be very easy to reverse engineer. My bet, as before, is that Rossi creates nano-crystals of nickel via cryogenic treatment (liquid nitrogen, 48 hrs, plus pounding/crushing of the particles). This is indeed very difficult to reverse engineer.

      • DrD

        I agree except the reverse engineering might be difficult but not impossible with the appropriate equipment. I suspect he has something subtle in mind, to hide it but at the end of the day some one will track it down. What worries me (for his sake and ours) is that in terms of his mass production he’s only talking in terms of many days per E-Cat not many E-Cats per day and as for E-Catx ???

        • Yes – that’s why IMHO Rossi’s core technology (assuming it works as reported) can’t escape into the public domain quickly enough. Thousands of developers and manufacturers urgently need to be involved, not just two.

          With an ever increasing number of individuals possessing some or most of the necessary information, MFMP and others sniffing limited success in producing LENR, and a very public court case pending, that is seeming more likely by the day.

    • Roland

      Field effects.

  • LuFong

    I don’t believe it was generally known that the Florida healthcare department shut down the 1MW plant test for a while, as ‘Jacky’ states. If true only Rossi or a few close associates of his would know about this. Hmmmmm…..

    “JT Vaughn, in the same very days was writing to the authorities that your plant was not working and used a physicist connected with your competitors to induce the healthcare dept. of Florida to close your plant and interrupt the test. “

  • cashmemorz

    It is even difficult to separate the straight forward ads from the Public Relations pieces shown as if they are actual news items shown between “real” news like car accidents and bombngs in war zones. “And now we have a bit of “news” about a new process from an Italian American who has purportedly made a device that can produce more energy than put in…..” Would that last bit in parentheses be considered news or an advertisement?

  • cashmemorz

    Of course its foolish. Especially those of the religious bent who actually do that kind of praying and waiting. Then when no result is forthcoming they compensate for it not happening as they wanted by saying “god works in mysterious ways” or some such explanation, usually taken from bible text.

  • kdk

    The observers were independent of Rossi, or rather they didn’t know each other, to my knowledge, prior to being approached about testing the E-Cat. The Lugano and Levi tests had some of the same people doing them. Penon did the 1 day test, iirc, and 400 day test. That doesn’t mean that they’re not independent.

    As to why he might not invite MIT people… they were accused of academic fraud by Eugene Mallove earlier on in the P&F days, falsifying data in order to get a null replication which would have been positive otherwise –and had vested interests in hot fusion research — which he believed enough to quit his job at MIT over. Bockris got accused of fraud only because his test showed above background levels of nuclear products. Maybe Rossi is worried about the same from scientists he perceives as having similar biases, or that most mainstream scientists don’t want to subject themselves to what P&F and Bockris were subjected to. The fact that the Levi and Lugano scientists weren’t from a major US university doesn’t disqualify them, but Uppsala and Bologna are highly respected institutions.

  • Engineer48
    • roseland67

      I the Ecat works as stated, it may well start a war

  • clovis ray

    No licenses needed , no ionising radiation, the regulatory body has already cleared it,,as not a threat,

  • Alex Fenrick

    If he truly does not wish to do so…then that is a true shame for his reputation, the industry and potentially the world if he does “have the goods”. If Rossi is not able to do so because of contractual or legal reasons…I respect that…but I would reject his position if your statement in yelling bold letters is true. All speculation either way.

  • Not much mention of Indian work on cold fusion / LENR has been made here. A Google search on ‘cold fusion lenr india’ produces a good crop of links though.