Bob Greenyer Posts New Video with MFMP News and Ideas

Bob Greenyer of the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project did a live video chat this morning on Google Hangouts in which he discussed some news from the MFMP and ideas about the possible source of energy in LENR

The video can be seen below:

Bob followed up with this summary of the content of the video:

I just wanted to get the 3 main things out before going to Aarhus

1. That we have a shot at showing if a particular theory is correct

2. That practically all successful tech seams to have LWFM in play – and that it has been known to be critical for many years with Celani, Iraj and Iwamura being leaders. Holmlid has recently observed Muons but attributes the m to nuclear spallation – despite using the LWFM and transition metal (K and Fe in this case)

3. My speculation that Muons, Muonium, Muonium- and muonic atoms may be at play (in a similar way to Piantelli’s H- but more accepted as a MO to make fusion)

4. That the e-Cat X is a HV discharge through sapphire.

5. That HV Sapphire makes muonium and potential ly muonium- as shown by canadian research

6. That that is why I suggested 3 phases may play a role in Hot Cat and my previous informed speculation HV discharge in E-Cat X and that Rossi may not know how it works

7. That recent patent by Clean planet says effectively “heavy electron’ every few paragraphs, saying that the nano structures help it… but does not say muon

8. That subsequent to ALL this and with a priority date before E-CatX was mentioned by Rossi, the German patent is doing a Dielectric Barrier Discharge DBD through Al2O3 (what sapphire and hotcats are made from) without giving a reason and there is no indication that they know how it may enhance the effect.

IF the ECat-X is functioning like this, there is no indication Rossi knows that. It would allow for pulsed HV DBD through sapphire capillary – a muonic (even muonium- with the LWFM increasing production of H- and u-) based accelerated effect could result in light,back emf and direct electricity.

  • gameover

    This may be interesting for some. I found here that to create Pions, which decay into muons (µ-), it takes at least 290 MeV of energy in a proton-proton collision in a particle accelerator:

    Thus to create a pion of rest energy 135 MeV, it is necessary to give the incoming proton at least 290 MeV of kinetic energy. This is called the “threshold energy” for pion production.

    Something amazing must happen in LENR if muons are really observed.

    • gameover

      But I just recalled that in a few slides of Olafson that he and Holmlid saw the entire Kaon decay chain, so this would make the energy required to see the same in a particle accelerator even higher?

      • Stephen

        Indeed if we have a nano kaon factory in any of these devices it’s astonishing technology well beyond how we normally think about LENR.

        • gameover

          Either we are dealing with a to-date unknown force of nature or these LENR systems are GeV-scale proton (and deuteron) accelerators, haha!

          • Stephen

            There are some very energetic cosmic muons but I don’t think they are involved here.

            Perhaps there is a resonance phenomena that stimulates a virtual Phi meson enough to interact with a nucleon pair and stimulate their decay who knows. If it occurs it will certainly be new.

          • gameover

            I thought of this: without involving unknown physics or new exotic dense matter one can speculate that at the nanoscale the pores and the lattice vacancies of a hydrogen saturated porous material may after a certain threshold and a suitable impulse (and the proper conditions and alignment) be able to burst catastrophically one after another and accelerate hydrogen atoms in the process up to relativistic speeds depending on the amount of aligned hydrogen saturated pores (= amount of material) by momentum transfer. See this video for an example at the macroscopic scale (no nuclear reactions involved):


            Then you could obtain depending on the energy of the emitted protons and the target: kaons, pions, muons, or also neutrons by spallation or muon capture, or just accelerated protons.

            But this would not easily explain for example how can some obtain similar effects in plasma experiments without a lattice or the very strange results of Holmlid who detects superfluid dense hydrogen material outside of the catalyst, or the cavitation experiments in liquid metals, etc…

          • gameover
          • Bob Greenyer

            Nice example gameover, if something like this did occur, could the process self trigger, that is one event that leads to an energy yielding event produces shockwaves that lead to other similar events.

          • gameover

            A similar explanation may also imply that:
            1. The emission of energetic particles can be anisotropic.
            2. There can be something equivalent to a “critical mass” of LENR material.

            But this is only a thought exercise and I do not expect any real link with existing LENR mechanisms.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Or some collective body effect.

            I think the main thing is to work hard to devise experiments to test hypothesis and see what the data implies

          • Stephen

            Some times it feels that we are tantalisingly close to fitting all these pieces together in the right way but are just missing or have forgotten some critical piece of data. These tests you are devising and the data they provide could well clarify and identify the key points. They are critical and important test I think at this time what ever their results.

          • Bob Greenyer

            More open data from better designed experiments is what is needed.

            You all can play a role in helping us get the most out of this opportunity – after all, it was all of you that helped make this possible!

          • Stephen

            Just taken a look at your post on you MFMP FB page Bob. The lab at Arhus looks great. This could be really good. Good luck with it.

          • artefact

            Nice Bob!

          • Anon2012_2014

            Who’s the man!

            Bob Greenyer!

            Keep it up Bob!

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes, really want to see if we can find a way to use it for the full 18 months, workign hard behind the scenes to coordinate which team members can come and when.

            Lot’s of meetings today – I gave my vision for building out the LOS platform and it apparently fits with the Danish governments aspirations for science and so the new Open Science coordinator things that there maybe some seperate funding for that and if it could be achieved that would benefit all researchers.

            Here are some more pictures for you. There is still a lot of stuff we need, so we are going to start to look what other departments can loan and we discussed the possibility of getting the same $800 Chinese made Hydrogen generator that me356 uses.

          • Ged

            Hot dang, that is a beautifully designed lab. I am jealous.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Isn’t it though, I’ll try and share a spherical image tomorrow – you can see the beautiful view out of the window also.

          • Andy Kumar

            The lab looks too clean. Are any groups working there. Normally you will see a lot of clutter in an active lab. They may be using you to create some buzz. Always need to be careful that people don’t take advantage of you, as Dr. R learnt the hard way with UniBo, NI and IH.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Hence why I got the rushed presentation out.

            They have other labs – which are EXTREMELY cluttered in the chemistry department. This is the lab in the iNANO (iterdisciplinary Nano Technology Building) which has been prepared for the Chemistry department and us for this new academic year.

          • It might seem absurd, but this is how things often look in the Nordics. Modern, fairly new, little worn, with few people around.
            Small, highly developed countries with few people, lots of resources and a strong ‘engineering’ drive to have stuff that works well. Yet, not always this produces excellent results—since it doesn’t force you to fight for overcoming troubles, obstacles and problems, which nurtures a certain kind of creativity—but occasionally we do pretty well 😉

          • Bob Greenyer

            Mats, yes – there is a certain cleanliness and order to things, but I must say, the lab I was in yesterday, which is currently in full time use – is about as cluttered as a haberdashers basement.

          • Rene

            Wow, that looks like a brand new lab. Even the gas spigots lack wear. Advanced air handlers too. That should do quite nicely.

        • Bob Greenyer


          See the first of many many repetitions in the Mizuno/clean planet patent here, in Paragraph 9


            I saw it. They attribute the LENR to heavy electrons not muons.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That is my point. Now read this


            With alkaline earth metal / transition metal oxide catalyst – Holmlid and Olaffson have observed what looks like nuclear spallation, this yields muons – they readily admit that it may only be part of the process.

            The MFMP is theory agnostic, but we must try to devise experiments to test claims made and our own insight. By replicating the German patent application, which appears to be how I predicted the structure of the as yet un-described E-CatX it has it all, the Dielectric Barrier discharge (through Al203) creating hydrogen radicals and rydberg matter, transition metal hydrogen storage material cathode doped with ‘catalytic oxides’ read … metal oxides, such as those based on K, Sr. The discharges create nano structures as per the Canon patent and more recently the work of Mizuno/Clean Planet.

            Different people / groups, coming from different angles and independently coming up with claimed working embodiments that have clearly similar aspects.


            What has he seen that looks like nuclear spallation? I dont believe nuclear spallation is going on. It takes a tremendous amount of energy.

            I’m glad MFMP is theory agnostic. I’d like to see a cloud chamber study of the particles coming out of Holmlid’s laser cluster fusion device.

            His slide show shows an equation of a deuteron decaying into mesons. Has that reaction been seen by other labs like CERN?

            I agree with you that “Different people / groups, coming from different angles and independently coming up with claimed working embodiments that have clearly similar aspects.”

          • gameover

            The German patent application has been granted:


          • Bob Greenyer

            Thanks for this which is surprising on such a short timescale – however, a follower on our FB has noted that the German registrar does not agree with googles status.


          • gameover

            Pity 🙁
            Indeed, the “A9” at the end of the patent number seemed strange. The patents that are granted usually have a “B”.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Phonon Energy to attempt *GlowStick* type replication…


    • Axil Axil

      The production of Kaons and the mesons(D-mesons) that produce them show the clear cause of LENR. There’s only one way that strange quarks can be produced. The proton and neutron is decaying under the influence of EMF.

      When hadrons(protons and neutrons) decay, 1 giga electron volts are produced. A monopole field can do this.


      There is something undiscovered in the EMF that LENR produces to affect the strong and the weak force to produce strange matter.

      It will be very, very, very hard for science to accept this cause of LENR.

      For more background on strange matter

      • gameover

        Do not free neutrons have a mean lifetime of about 15 minutes before they decay into protons? The decay of protons however has never been observed. Do you suspect that something is accelerating their decay as to be observable?

        • Axil Axil

          There is something in LENR based EMF that is producing proton and neutron decay inside the nucleus. It could be the yet undiscovered fifth force… or not.

          This involves grand unification theory, that is the subject that Einstein spend decades of his life looking for.

          • gameover

            Well, my opinion is that if something is accelerating the nuclear decay of very stable particles it means that you are manipulating time. If you are manipulating time then you also have a warp drive! Of course this is just my dumb speculation.

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