David Niebauer Interviews Mats Lewan

David Niebauer has published a new podcast interview, this time with Mats Lewan, Swedish author and journalist who has been writing about Andrea Rossi and the E-Cat for the last few years.

Here are some of the key points that stood out to me from the very interesting discussion(many other topics were covered, also). These are just notes I took while listening, so to get the full detail and context, you really should listen to the interview.

Mats has no doubts about the reality of LENR, that it is a valid source of energy,although he does not have an explanation for the absence of high-energy radiations, since this is against the laws of known physics — but he says that ‘experiment is king’, and there is much that we don’t know about physics.

The conversation moves to Andrea Rossi and the E-Cat, and David Niebauer explains that he (David) met Rossi before he got involved with Brillouin Energy, and found him interesting and engaging. Mats said that he also met Rossi early on and found him to be a believable person. He then helped get Swedish professors Essen and Kullander involved.

Mats says that he is contact with the Lugano team, and he says they are not updating the famous Lugano report, but instead they are trying to replicate the effect independently without the help of Rossi. Mats says that he does not know of any results of this research, but the work is ‘very much ongoing’ and he considers it ‘promising’.

Regarding the lawsuit between Andrea Rossi and Industrial Heat, Mats says that he understands that the documents that have been released represent only the tip of the iceberg, and that at the moment it is meaningless to try and understand the situation from them, and that what has been released has been selective, to give certain impressions. Mats says that what he has seen so far, is that the Industrial Heat evidence has not been impressive (however he does admit he could be biased).

Mats says that talking with Rossi has never been a problem for him, but working for him is a different thing — and he says that he understands he could be difficult to work with.

Niebauer himself says that he has spoken with a high-level former US government official who had seen an early demonstration from Rossi and was convinced he was showing a real effect, but that he could not work with Rossi because he would not reveal the details of his technology.

Mats says he has different information about the QuarkX, and that he concludes that so far it is in the early stages of development. He says that Rossi has difficulty assembling and maintaining a team, again, because he is hard to work with.

Again, kudos to David for another very interesting podcast. I hope he continues with this series.

So far, to the best of my knowledge, the only place this is available is on iTunes. Here is a direct link:


  • Veblin
  • LindbergofSwed

    Thank you, I have allways wondered how Rossi can have a team working for him without revealing what all the materials are. It must be nerve wrecking to always think about keeping secrets and hide stuff from people. No wonder he is difficult to work with.

  • doug marker

    Just a note.
    Have been unable to download a working version of this. The web download keeps pausing so I downloaded the whole *.mp3 but it too has these pauses in playback.

    Next I will try the iTunes version.

    Has anyone else had the constant pausing in playback ?


  • sam

    Refreshing interview.

  • Dr. Mike

    Very good interview! Thanks to both David and Mats.

  • Bruce Williams

    I really dont understand what you are saying , cant you be a litlle clearer ?

  • doug marker

    I agree lots of people would jump through hoops of fire to work on a high profile LENR project. But that is an entirely different issue as to how long you might tolerate staying if the boss is very difficult to work for.

    What Matts said is actually rather obvious. Andrea Rossi is known to be charming when in regular discussions. He does though have a reputation for being very demanding at work and has been reported to ‘throw tantrums’ when not getting his way. There is only so much of such behavior that people can tolerate.

    Matts is telling it like it is. He knows AR a lot better than you or I so listen to what he says.



  • LindbergofSwed

    Maybe not only the money are at stake at the trial. If Rossi loose to IH a lot of people will think he doesn’t have a valid product at all. So it is more important than I first thought.

    • Bob Greenyer

      If he wins, people currently (or hoping to be) sponsored by IH may loose funding / promise of – but, they’ll easily find it elsewhere as people will rush to hugely fund anyone credible in the field when they see that it may be real (of course, right now, the main stream thinks/likes to say none of it is credible).

      It might be that the worst thing that could happen to both Rossi and IH is that Rossi wins! Rossi and his work will be on the Radar and subject to broad and accelerated competition and IH will be de-funded. Indeed the stakes are high.

      I would expect IH to then to legally leverage their patent portfolio they no doubt have secured for a song this past year as the field has been devalued and distracted with the legal nonsense and insidious related dialogue.

      If Rossi looses, he could just ‘go nuclear’ and release all IP, technical know how/industrial secrets – this would in one act make him a human hero, a philanthropist and moreover, it would neuter his opponent, destruct the value of their other acquisitions and still leave him as the man with the most experience of his technology and therefore sought after to be funded. This is when it really does get all “Georgehantsian” as Pekka says. Of course, this would assume that Rossi has what he claims.

      • Win… LOSE

        Why can’t the Internet get this word right? Drives me nuts.

        • interstellar hobo

          Because loose, lose/ choose/hose
          English only has vague pretensions of being a phonetically written language.
          There are far too many exceptions and alternating rules. If there was an agreed upon simplification and standardization of the language it would help out immensely not only for native speakers but the larger community that uses it as a modern lingua franca. We could have had Esperanto and flying cars in this future, instead we get Internet + English + self appointed grammar police. You knew what he meant. Pointing it out was only to ingratiate yourself.

          • I see it everywhere. It’s like when gray suddenly became grey in the States and adverbs disappeared.

            We might as well just change the spelling in the dictionary at this point. We have nothing to loose.

            Anyway my motives were 1/3 peevishness, 1/3 constructive criticism for those who might benefit and 1/3 just can’t stand it any more. I doubt I ingratiated myself to anybody.

          • Bob Greenyer

            If you see it everywhere, perhaps the language is changing, and it will become officially interchangeable – imagine your torment then – whole swathes of the internet will become no-go areas for you. Perhaps you should inoculate yourself and go and visit your countries national register of missing persons website.

            English is a live language words are added, removed and tweaked all the time.

          • US_Citizen71

            Take the word Hacker it doesn’t mean today what it did when I took my first computer course in 1986. It use to mean someone who wrote code on the fly without planning and diagramming it out. ‘They hacked the code together.’

        • Bob Greenyer

          I am lysdexic and have to work really hard to get everything right and sometimes for brevity I do not triple check before I post – plus perhaps I have spent to much time out of UK!

          Plus, I obviously have a screw loose (I’m a LENR researcher right?), but don’t lose your head over it

          • The post you replied to had it as well.

            I respect you a lot, Bob. In fact that’s probably what drove me to the keyboard… the juxtaposition of a pet peeve and someone I highly respect falling prey to it.

            What really amazes me is how much you see it on sports web sites, where winning and LOSING is pretty much what it’s all about. But they get all worked up about their team loosing.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I blame the prevalence of toilet humour… Here’s one I made up for you…

            Too few use the blue loo to poo due to the loose screw losing its grip

            Er.. hows that respect holding up? Tnx.

          • psi2u2

            Now that’s really loosing.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    Georgehantsian thoughts started to haunt
    when I listened to this.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Could George Hants actually be Max Keiser?


      • psi2u2

        Very enlightened and enlightening video, Bob. Let us hope these corporate monopolists will be beat down.

        • Zephir

          Corporate monopolists can feel safe until the LENR developers behave like the greedy monopolists. The nature and very basis of free energy is free information about it.

      • georgehants

        Thanks for the compliment Bob, RT one of the only places to find the Truth regarding the West

        • Bob Greenyer

          So… you don’t deny it!

          I think this Max fella is right on the money here.

          Many people like to hold onto what they perceive (since it may be a fallacy) as their little contribution to the progression of understanding so tight they die with their ego intact. The sad thing is if their work did have value, it is lost on their passing which makes it a pointless pursuit. This is why, for me, if someone has a genuinely valuable and novel idea at all that has IP protection, it simply makes no sense to me to not license it to the world like Matsushita did with VHS. Just imagine if there was only one person or company making solar panels or wind turbines.

          Mills could licence the Photosphere (TM) – leaving out the solar cells which are nothing more than an engineering choice on energy conversion

          Rossi could licence whatever

          And the world would switch very fast.

    • georgehants

      Thanks Pekka.

  • doug marker

    The *reality* after 7 years of ‘we or our partner will build a factory real soon’ is that there are no factories – *none*.

    IT is fair to say that the *only* 1mw eCat unit made was built in a Rossi family factory at Ferrara Italy & shipped to IH in NC before resent to Florida for the famed 1 year test. (A factory not specifically for eCats).

    Anyone can guess how long this will remain so. But, don’t expect any factories in 2017.


  • Anybody know who is in the Dominican Republic or anything about this site inspection? Do they mean the Doral site or is there some kind of site in the D.R.?

    Very interesting either way. Finally starting to get down to brass tacks it seems.

    ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that the defendant is permitted to question the
    witness set for deposition in this matter on February 22, 2017, in the Dominican
    Republic. The plaintiff shall provide the defendant with the name of the attorney for the
    witness who is scheduled for deposition in the Dominican Republic. It is further

    ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that if the defendant’s expert is available after the
    conclusion of the deposition in this matter taking place today locally, the site inspection
    shall occur today after the conclusion of that local deposition. If the defendant’s expert
    is not available to inspect the site today after the conclusion of the local deposition in
    this matter, unless the parties agree otherwise, the site inspection shall occur on March
    2, 2017, at 9:00 AM.


    • Obvious

      The site inspection is at the Doral location.

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